text,label "Re: Space Marketing -- Boycott For some reasons we humans think that it is our place to control everything. I doubt that space advertising is any worse than any other kind advertising, but it will be a lot harder to escape, and is probably the most blatant example yet of our disregard for the fact that we are not in fact creaters of the universe. Annoying little species, aren't we? ********** Dan Gaubatz (dgaubat1@cc.swarthmore.edu) Itty Bitty Programmer Guy The Geometry Forum Swarthmore College ",14 "Perfect MAG MX15F Monitors? I've been intently following the MAG thread while waiting for mine to arrive in the mail. There seems to be a lot of complaints about minor alignment problems with the MX15F. One article contained a comment that the owner called the factory and was told that his screen rotation was within spec (1/4""). Well, my monitor arrived last night and, sure enough, it has a very noticable barrel distortion. It's not dramatic, but it is there and it is especially noticable when the image doesn't fill the entire screen. The fact that it is worse on the right side doesn't help matters. What I'm trying to find out is if these minor imperfections are the norm or are most of their monitors perfect? I don't want to send it back and get one with the same or an even worse problem. Does the factory consider this kind of thing normal and ship their monitors with less than perfect alignment? Are other netters just living with these kind of imperfections? -- ............................................................... : Comments and opinions are mine - not BNR's : : Doug Adcock adcock@bnr.ca : : Bell-Northern Research Research Triangle Park, NC : ............................................................... ",3 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qie61$fkt@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article <30114@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >#I'm one of those people who does not know what the word objective means >#when put next to the word morality. I assume its an idiom and cannot >#be defined by its separate terms. >#Give it a try. >Objective morality is morality built from objective values. Well, that got us a long way. Now define ""objective value,"" and make sure that you are referring to _moral_ (not scientific) values. While your at it, take a look at the definition of ""objective"" and ""values."" If you don't have a dictionary, I've written those definitons in a couple of recent postings. >-- >Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' >odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon eric ",19 "Re: Forcing a window manager to accept specific coordinates for a window In article ethan@cs.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: >In article bading@cs.tu-berlin.de (Tobias 'Doping' Bading) writes: >> >>I know that the mwm has an resource to specify if positions are to be used for >>the border of a window or for the ""user"" window. Maybe other window managers >>have similar options. >>Another way to figure out the difference between the ""user"" window position >>and the window manager decoration window position is to subtract their >>positions. You just have to use XQueryTree and remember that the window manager >>decorations window is the parent of your window. Unfortunately, you can only >>figure out the decoration width and height after the window has been mapped >>this way. >> > Another way would be to use GetGeometry to find out where >you are relative to the frame, and TranslateCoordinates to find >out where your window's upperleft corner really is. As I've said before, there's no reliable way to find out the size of the window manager decoration. If your window has been reparented, you can't assume that the window you're parented to is the window that holds all of the window manager decoration. There may be several layers of windows. Doing multiple XQueryTree's until you get to the root will work in most cases, but there's no guarantee that the outside decoration window is parented to the root window of the display (tvtwm). -- Tom LaStrange toml@boulder.ParcPlace.COM ",5 "Re: Biblical Backing of Koresh's 3-02 Tape (Cites enclosed) (st) Stephen Tice (km) Ken McVay (st)Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed (st)for the message he carried. (Which says nothing about the (km)Seems to be, barring evidence to the contrary, that Koresh was simply (km)another deranged fanatic who thought it neccessary to take a whole bunch of (km)folks with him, children and all, to satisfy his delusional mania. Jim (km)Jones, circa 1993. I think there's plenty of evidence to the contrary - six ""rescued"" Davidians consistantly recounted that the Federal tank knocked over a barrel of propane. These guys haven't exactly been spending time together, plotting an elaborate and consistent story. It would be contradictory for Koresh to go for ""mass suicide"" - remember that Koresh's death was the opening of the sixth seal - the signal that Armageddon had begun. His army (the people in the compound) would then fight the powers of evil and win, ending in the Rapture. The fire wiped out his army. I read earlier that Koresh was planning to walk out of the compound and blow himself up with a grenade - that would jibe better with his teachings. (st)In the mean time, we sure learned a lot about evil and corruption. (st)Are you surprised things have gotten that rotten? (km)Nope - fruitcakes like Koresh have been demonstrating such evil corruption (km)for centuries. I'd think you'd be the last one to support gassing people and burning them to death for their religious beliefs. Corrupt? Evil? I don't know. We'll never know. And when you start calling people fruitcakes about their religious beliefs, that's dehumanizing people. We saw what happened when many Germans started believing that Jews were subhuman. In one neat stroke, they destroyed all the evidence that could have pointed to wrongdoing. And killed all the witnesses, including 12 children whose last view of life was choking and pain, followed by burning them alive. I am extremely saddened that this tragedy occurred. I'm furious that they used my money to do it. ===================================================================== ""So I become an accessory Dave Criswell And I don't have an alibi Oracle Corporation To the victim on my doorstep Only way I can justify It's family business ... "" Fish ",19 "Re: Rule Book Trivia 2 In article <93109.145942IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Ryan Robbins writes: > If I were the manager, I'd argue that the runner was out of > the base line since he was to the *left* of the first base > line. If the umps don't budge (which they won't: they nev- > er admit when they are wrong), I'd file a protest with the > league. > >Rule 7.09(k) states: ""It is interference by a batter or runner when - >in running the last half of the distance from home base to first base >... he runs outside the three-foot line, or inside (to the left of) >the foul line and, in the umpire's judgment, interferes with the field- >er taking the throw at first base..."" > >The key word in the rule is ""and."" A runner isn't out just for running >out of the baseline. He's out for interfering with the fielding of the >ball or throw or fielding of the throw to first. Because the catcher >opted to throw the ball over the batter-runner's head, there's no inter- >ference. > > > So what is your definition of ""interfering with the fielder taking the throw""? The rule book certainly doesn't have a definiton or clarification, so it's possible to interpret the rule as saying that if the catcher has to alter his throw to avoid hitting the batter-runner, then again we have interference. You know, it seems that there is no way to apply this rule justly--if the catcher (or the pitcher, say Rob Dibble, for example) throws toward first and hits the runner running inside the baseline, the fielder takes the chance of being ejected. Therefore he probably would throw around the runner or (your scenario) above him. You should note that in our American Legion League, (which uses MLB rules) we interpret the rule to say in this very circumstance there IS interference per rule 7.09. RStimets ",9 "Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot. I totally agree with each point you made. Jose Viscaino looked like a single A hitter up there. Who swings on 3-1 count with Maddux pitching and your teams down by a run, and you haven't touched the ball all day. I also think too much is made of that lefty-righty thing. Watching the Cubs games I get the feeling Steve Stone knows a lot more about what the Cubs should be doing than Lefebre does. Harry said it best when he stated after another terrible Vizcaino at bat-- we can't wait til Sandberg returns! ",9 "FLOPPY DRIVE PROBLEM--HELP!!! Hi! I have a problem with my floppy drives. In an effort to make my 3.5"" drive (normally b:) my a: drive, I switched the order of connections on the cable from the serial card/floppy/ide controller. I booted up, changed the CMOS settings to reflect the a: drive as the 3.5 and the b: drive as the 5.25. The drive lights didn't come on, and there was a failure trying to read from those drives. I switched the cables back to their original positions, and then booted-up and restored the original CMOS settings. The lights for the floppies came on during this process, and they stay on for as long as the computer is on. I see that when there is a disk in a:, the drive is spinning, yet there seems to be no disk access. MSD.EXE and Norton SI detect both drives, but when I try to get detailed information about a: or b:, Norton SI tells me that there is no disk in the drive. Can anyone offer any suggestions? I'm in desperate need of help!!! Thank you for your time. Eric Balog balog@eniac.seas.upenn.edu ",3 "Cobra 2.0 1-b-1 Video card HELP ME!!!! Does ANYONE out there in Net-land have any information on the Cobra 2.20 card? The sticker on the end of the card reads Model: Cobra 1-B-1 Bios: Cobra v2.20 I Havn't been able to find anything about it from anyone! If you have any information on how to get a hold of the company which produces the card or know where any drivers are for it, PLEASE let me know! As far as I can tell, it's a CGA card that is taking up 2 of my 16-bit ISA slots but when I enable the test patterns, it displays much more than the usualy 4 CGA colors... At least 16 from what I can count.. Thanks! .------------------------------------------. : Internet: jele@eis.calstate.edu : : bbs.mirage@gilligan.tsoft.net : : bbs.mirage@tsoft.sf-bay.org : : mirage@thetech.com : : UUCP : apple.com!tsoft!bbs.mirage : `------------------------------------------' Computer and Video Imaging Major ",1 "General Information Request I am looking for any information about the space program. This includes NASA, the shuttles, history, anything! I would like to know if anyone could suggest books, periodicals, even ftp sites for a novice who is interested in the space program. Todd Giaquinto maverick@wpi.WPI.EDU ",14 "Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO Excerpts from rec.autos: 26-Apr-93 Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Tauru.. by Mark W. Rice@mozart.Colu > In article <24326.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (Dav > id Bonds) writes: > > > >GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse. The shifter > >GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to > >GK>get it into gear. I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple > >GK>of months. > > > >Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse. They use the same > >synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using > >this technique. > > Or do like the manual says and put it in 3rd first, then you can quickly > go into reverse... no waiting. One more way, which works in manual trans cars I've driven, and it is my personal favorite (the other suggestions above are great, but try this one, too). While pushing the shifter *gently* towards reverse, let the clutch out slowly (right to the friction point) and the shifter will be pulled into position. If you do it right, the car won't jump backward, nor will the gears grind.... You will just glide back. -sam ",7 "Re: War - should Christians fight? In article 28827@athos.rutgers.edu, david-s@hsr.no (David A. Sjoen) writes: |>Personally, I think that Christians shouldn't fight. |>2) As Christians, we are not supposed to defend ourselves |> Matt 5:38-48, Heb 10:33-34 |>3) War is a result of sin. Defense may be a necessary reaction to an |>attack, but I don't think that we as Christians should take part in |>this. What if you are trying to defend someone else. Should you allow killing and oppression to continiue, or is it our obligation to protect the innocent? ",15 "Re: Best Radar Detector In article <1993Apr26.150614.27597@westminster.ac.uk> jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes: >Hi - now that we have these GATSO photo speed traps here, I was wondering if >anyone knows if radar detectors are capable of detecting photo cameras? If >not, are there any other devices which will? Yup. Radar detectors that detect Ka band will pick up photo radar as it's reflected from some poor slob ahead of you that just got nailed. BTW, many photo radar installations in the southern U.S. became targets for high-powered rifles, or had their lenses ""decorated"" with cow flop, etc. Not that I'm advocating destruction of public property, but you get the picture.... Later, -- Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. ",7 "Re: Commercial mining activities on the moon dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: > Which merely evades the issue of why those lunatics are > there at all (and, why their children would want to stay.) Paul-- for the same reason that many other colonies are founded. Why not? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Charlie Prael - dante@shakala.com Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA +1-408-734-2289 ",14 "Re: Update (Help!) [was ""What is This [Is it Lyme's?]""] In article <1993Mar24.182145.11004@equator.com> jod@equator.com (John Setel O'Donnell) writes: >IMHO, you have Lyme disease. >I sent you in private email a summary of the treatment protocols put >forth by the Lyme Disease Foundation. I respectfully suggest that you >save yourself a great deal of suffering by contacting them for a >Lyme-knowledgeable physician referral and seek treatment at once. >You'll know in 2 weeks if you're on the right course; and the clock is >ticking on your 6 weeks if you have it. 1-800-886-LYME. If these folks are who I think they are, Lyme-knowledgeable may mean a physician to whom everything that walks in the door is lyme disease, and you will be treated for lyme, whether or not you have it. Hope you have good insurance. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils) In wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes: >I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points >with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put >win as first in a tie breaker...... Well I don't see any smileys here. I am trying to figure out if the poster is a dog or a wordprocessor. Couldn't be neither. Both are smarter than this. ""I might not be great in Math"" -- cordially, as always, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ""So many morons... rm ...and so little time."" ",10 "Re: Will Italy be the Next Domino to Fall? hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen) writes: >A good two-party system will bring Italy efficient, accountable government. yeah, just like we have here in the US. -- WALTER G. ROLANDI USENET: rolandi@andy.hssc.scarolina.edu INTERNET: rolandi@hsscls.hssc.scarolina.edu ",18 "Re: guns in backcountry? no thanks In article <0096B294.AAD9C1E0@uinpla.npl.uiuc.edu> reimer@uinpla.npl.uiuc.edu (Paul E. Reimer) writes: > In article <1qkftjINNoij@cronkite.cisco.com>, pitargue@cisco.com (Marciano Pitargue) writes: > > [stuff deleted about causes of people in ER] > > >and your factoid about shooting victims in the ER. count how many come in > >due to automobile accidents and automobile crimes. maybe we should outlaw > >cars. > >marciano pitargue@cisco.com > > There are a lot of automobile accidents, but atleast there is some > regulation to try to combat this. Such as? Drunk drivers get back on the road in no time, to kill again. Seems the driver's license process does not work for this. > When I got my drivers license, I HAD > to take a drivers safety class. Because you wanted one while you were underage. > I HAVE to be licensed to drive. Only on public roads. > My car > MUST be registered. Only if it is to be driven on public roads, other than between segments of my property. > I MUST (at least where I live) have liability > insurance on both myself driving and my car (if someone else had an > accident with it). Only on public roads. > Hmm, wouldn't manditory saftey classes, registration > of both the owner and gun, and manditory liability insurance be nice for > gun owners. Perhaps, if it gave them permission to shoot in public roads and parks. :-) > > Paul Reimer > reimer@uinpluxa.npl.uiuc.edu Jim -- jmd@handheld.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""I'm always rethinking that. There's never been a day when I haven't rethought that. But I can't do that by myself."" Bill Clinton 6 April 93 ""If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms,-never--never--never!"" WILLIAM PITT, EARL OF CHATHAM 1708-1778 18 Nov. 1777 ",16 "Vancouver/Seattle Study Critiques ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Open letter by Dr. Paul H. Blackman, Research Coordinator for NRA-ILA. NRA Official Journal 1/89. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear sir: By now, we are used to the New England Journal of Medicine's publication of small-scale studies related to firearms from which conclusions are drawn which are quantum leaps from the data, followed by announcements of momentus ""scientific"" findings. These are regularly released to the press without the caveats which riddle the conclusory paragraphs, and often accompanied by an editorial calling attention to the findings. Generally, while they at least present a few interesting data, however meaningless, the studies misinterpret statistics, and ignore or belittle serious studies by criminologists. The latest effort -- ""Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, and Homicide: A Tale of Two Cities,"" by J.H. Sloan, et al., with the accompanying editorial, ""Firearms Injuries: A Call for Science,"" by two employees of the Centers for Disease Control (November 10), however, is an insult to the intelligence of any serious scholar in any field and have so few data and so many flaws that I feel compelled to write at some length to call attention to various major and minor failings, in no particular order. 1. The authors misleadingly cite Wright, et al. (Ref. 1) to support the statement that ""some have argued that restricting access to handguns could substantially reduce our annual rate of homicide."" Wright, et al., in fact studied and rejected that contention. 2. The authors pretended that Vancouver and Seattle are very similar cities with similar economic circumstances, histories, demographic characteristics, and the like. In fact, the cities are very different with very different demographic characteristics which appear to explain completely the higher homicide rate in Seattle. Both cities are over three-forths non-Hispanic white and *the non-Hispanic white homicide rates are reported to be the same in Seattle and Vancouver*. It is the different back- grounds, problems, circumstances, and behaviors of the various ethnic minorities which explain the difference in homicide. 3. The authors pretend they are evaluating Canada's gun law, compared to Washington State's. But they do not examine at all the situation in Vancouver prior to the gun law taking effect in 1978. As it happens, in the three years prior to that (1975- 1977), Vancouver averaged 23 homicides per year, one-eighth involving handguns, (Ref. 2) and in the seven years of the NEJM article there were 29 homicides per year, one-eigth involving handguns. Surely even the medical profession recognizes that one must look to see the prior situation was before concluding that a change made a difference? Would a physician conclude that a patient was benefiting from eating oat bran muffin each day for seven years because his cholesterol level was 200 without at least seeing if it was 180 before he started the regimen? 4. The authors pick two medium-sized cities to evaluate a national gun law. Nothing can be learned from such a tiny and arbitrarily selected sample. Seattle appears to have been selected because it was convienient for the authors rather than for any scientific reason. Would physicians call something a scientific study which involved one experimental subject and one dissimilar ""control""? Had different arbitrarily selected cities been chosen, opposite ""scientific"" conclusions would follow: Vancouver's homicide rate *exceeds* that of such ""wild west"" cities in Texas as El Paso, Corpus Christi, Austen, and, in Colorado, Colorado Springs. (Ref. 3) 5. The authors fail to clearly demonstrate that firearms or handguns ""are far more commonly owned in Seattle than in Vancouver."" They use two surrogate approaches in pretending to study the availability of firearms/handguns. The first is an apples-and-oranges effort to compare the number of carry permits in Seattle to the number of registered handguns in Vancouver. But the number clearly understates the number of handguns in Seattle, and counts primarily *protective* handgun owners. The second, however, tells nothing about the number of handguns in Vancouver, and counts *non-protective* handguns for the most part. Where is it difficult to obtain handguns legally for protection, registration figures are meaningless. There are 66,000 registered handguns in New York City (New York Daily News, Sept. 27, 1987). Comparing the two, that method suggests about 930 handguns per 100,000 population in New York City compared to 960 in Vancouver, meaning Vancouver has a greater ""prevalence of weapons"" than New York City. The second method of measuring gun density is ""Cook's gun prevalence index, a previously validated measure of intercity differences."" But the validation was by Cook of his own theory. (Ref. 4) Normally, second opinions are sought from a different doctor. More significantly, the Cook index is based on the average of the percentage of firearms involvement in suicide and homicide. So the authors are basically taking a measure of misuse. Unsurprisingly, gun misuse in homicide (42% in Seattle, 14% in Vancouver) is related to gun misuse in homicide plus suicide, divided by two (41% in Seattle, 12% in Vancouver). The authors are not measuring the relative avail- ability of firearms, or of handguns, in Seattle and Vancouver. 6. The authors misstate the laws of both Washington and Canada. They neglect to mention the significant fact that Washington has a waiting period and background check prior to the purchase of a handgun, and that provisions exist in Canadian law for owning and carrying handguns for personal protection. The authors also make it appear that it is more difficult to get a handgun legally in Canada than is actually the case. 7. The authors ignore all other factors which might explain the differences in crime rate, beyond some vague mention of the penalities provided by law and the roughest of estimates of clearence for one particular offense -- homicide involving a firearm. There is no measure of: the differences in the number of law enforcement officers; their aggressiveness in making arrests for gun law violations in the two jurisdictions; arrest rates for other offenses; conviction rates; actual sentences imposed for gun-related crimes, violent crimes without guns, or gun law violations; or incarceration rates. Whereas social scientists would attempt to measure and hold for such differences, the authors of the NEJM ""tale of two cities"" fail even to mention most factors related to crime control. 8. The authors dismiss claims that handguns are an effective means for protection unless the criminal is killed. Such is not the case. Criminologists (Ref. 5-8) have found that almost 650,000 Americans annually use handguns for protection from criminals, and that using a gun for protection reduces the liklihood that a crime -- rape, robbery, assault -- will be completed by the criminal and reduces the likelihood of injury to the victim. It is interesting, nonetheless, that the authors reported the same number (four) of civilian justifiable homicides without firearms in each city but that less restrictive Seattle accounted for 100% of the reported civilian justifiable homicides involving firearms. 9. The Centers for Disease Control, which funded the ""study,"" editorially praised the paper, (Ref. 9) saying it ""applied scientific methods to examine a focus of contention betweeb advocates of stricter regulation of firearms, particularly handguns."" There is nothing in the paper which could possibly be mistaken for ""scientific methods"" by a sociologists or criminologists. The Vancouver-Seattle ""study"" is the equivolent of testing an experimental drug to control hypertension by finding two ordinary-looking middle-class white males, one aged 25 and the other 40, and without first taking their vital signs, administering the experimental drug to the 25-year-old while giving the 40-year-old a placebo, then taking their blood pressure and, on finding the younger man had a lower blood pressure, announcing in a ""special article"" a new medical breakthrough. It would be nice to think that such a ""study"" would neither be funded by the CDC or printed by the NEJM. Since the longstanding anti-gun biases of the NEJM and the CDC make them willing to present shoddy research as ""scientific breakthroughs"" in ""special articles"" and editorials relating to firearms, we are obligated to correct the record by notifying the news media and those with congressional and executive oversight over the activities of the Centers for Disease Control about the distortions contained in ""Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, and Homicides: A Tale of Two Cities"" and ""Firearm Injuries: A Call for Science."" Clearly, all scientific standards go by the wayside whenever the CDC and the New England Journal of Medicine seize an opportunity to attack firearms ownership in America. REFERENCES 1. Wright JD, et al, *Weapons, crime and violence in America*: a literature review and research agenda, Washington, D.C.: Department of Justice, 1981. 2. Scarff E. *Evaluation of the Canadian gun control legislation*: final report. Ottawa: Ministry of the Solicitor General of Canada, 1983, p. 87. 3. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, *Crime in the United States*, 1987 (Uniform Crime Reports). Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1988 4. Cook PJ. *The role of firearms in violent crime*. In: Wolfgang M. Weiner NA, eds. *Criminal violence*, Beverly Hills, Calif.: Sage, 1982: 236-90, pp. 270-271. 5. Kleck G. *Crime control through the private use of armed force*. Social Problems 1988: 35:1-21. 6. Ziegenhagen EA, Brosnan D. *Victim responses to robbery and crime control policy*. Criminology. 1985: 23:675-695. 7. Lizotte AJ. *Determinants of completeing rape and assault*. Journal of Quantitative Criminology. 1986: 2:203-217. 8. Sayles SL, Kleck G. *Rape and resistance*. Paper at the American Society of Criminology convention, Chicago, 1988. 9. Mercy JA, Houk VN. *Firearm injuries: a call for science*. NEJM: 319:1283-1285. ========================================================================== GUNS AND SPUTTER by James D. Wright (from July 1989 issue of REASON, Free Minds & Free Markets) Someone once wrote: ""Statistics are like a bikini. What they real is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."" The problem is demonstrated by the most recent entry in a long line of scientific research purporting to show a causal link between gun availability and homicide. Funded by the federal government and published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine, the study compared homicide rates in Seattle and Vancouver and suggested that a handgun ban ""may reduce the rate of homicide in a community."" The nine medical doctors who published ""Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, and Homicide"" essentially reasoned in three steps: (1) Despite many historical, social, and demographic similarities, (2) Vancouver has a markedly lower homicide rate (3) because its stricter gun regulations make guns less available. The second step in their reasoning seems indisputable. The overall homicide rate in Seattle (for the period 1980-86) was 11.3 per 100,000 popuation, compared with 6.9 in Vancouver. Homicide is definitely more common in Seattle. The question then becomes, Why? The authors present a believable although not entirely accurate case to support the notion, as claimed in the third step of their reasoning, that Vancouver's handgun regulations are much more stringent. But their evidence on the difference in gun *availabilty* is indirect and unpersuasive; indeed, they acknowledge that direct evidence on the point does not exist. They offer two fragments of inferential data in support of the claim that guns are more available in Seattle; but for all anybody knows as a matter of empirical fact, the opposite could be true. We are therefore being asked, at the conclusion of the study, to believe that a difference in gun availability explains the difference in homicide rates when a difference in gun availability has not itself been established. Indeed, the situation is even more troublesome. The first of the two indirect bits of evidence is a difference between the number of concealed- weapons permits issued in Seattle and the number of restricted-weapons permits issued in Vancouver. Differences between the two cities in the permit regulations render these two numbers strictly noncomparable. * The second bit of evidence is ""Cook's gun prevalence index,"" which stands * at 41 percent for Seattle but only 12 percent for Vancouver. Cook's index * however, does not measure the relative prevalence of gun ownership in * various cities. It measures gun misuse--it is an average of the percentage * of homicides and suicides involving firearms. * In the present case, the index shows only that in homicides and suicides, * firearms are more likely to be used in Seatte than in Vancouver. To take * Cook's index as a measure of general firearms availability, it must be * assumed that the proportional involvement of guns in homicides and suicides * is directly related to their relative availability in the general * population. But this is exactly what the authors are seeking to prove. To * assume what one is seeking to prove, then to ""prove"" it on the basis of * that assumption does ot constitute scientific evidence for anything. Even if we were to grant, on the basis of no compelling evidence, that guns are less common in Vancouver, we might still question what causes what. The authors attribute Seattle's higher crime rate to a higher rate of gun ownership. But it might well be argued that low crime or homicide rates reduce the motivation for average citizens to obtain guns--in other words, that crime rates explain the variation in gun ownership, not vice versa. In fact, it was once commonly argued that Great Britain's low rate of violent crime was a function of that nation's strict gun laws and the consequent low rate of gun ownership--until British researcher Colin Greenwood found that Great Britain had enjoyed low rates of violent crime for many decades before strict firearms controls were enacted. To invoke an ancient methodological saw, correlation is not cause. Nor do the problems with this study end with its lack of direct data on gun ownership. The authors say Seattle and Vancouver are ""similar in many ways,"" implying that they differ mainly in gun availability, gun-law stringency, and crime rates. This is an evident attempt to establish the ceteris paribus condition of a sound scientific analysis--that ""all else is equal"" among things being compared. * Clearly the two cities are similar in some ways, but a closer look * reveals differences in ways that are relevant to their respective crime * or homicide rates. The cities are closely matched in what percentage * of their population is white (79 percent and 76 percent). But Seattle * is about 10 percent black, while Vancouver is less than 0.5 percent. * Vancouver's minority population is overwhelmingly Asian. So although the * authors show that th two cities are approximately comparable on a half- * dozen readily available demographic indicators, they have not shown * that all potentially relevant sources of variation have been ruled out. * In fact, the differences in racial compositions of the two cities is * particularly relevant in light of the study's breakdown of homicide rates * according to the race of the victim. For the white majority, the homicide * rates are nearly identical--6.2 per 100,000 in Seattle, 6.4 in Vancouver. * The differing overall homicide rates in the two cities are therefore due * entirely to vastly different rates among racial minorities. For blacks, * the observed difference in homicide rate is 36.6 to 9.5 and for Hispanics * 26.9 to 7.9. (Methodoligical complexities render the Asian comparison * problematic, but it too is higher in Seattle than in Vancouver.) Racial * minorities are much more likely to be the victims of homicide in Seattle * than in Vancouver; the white majority is equally likely to be slain * in either city. Since the nearly 2:1 initial difference in homicide reates between the cities is due exclusively to 3:1 or 4:1 differences between minority groups, it is fair to ask why postulated difference in ""gun availability"" (or gun-law strigency) would matter so dramatically to minorities but not matter at all to whites. Can differential gun availability explain why blacks and Hispanics--but not whites--are so much more likely to be killed in Seattle than in Vancouver? (Studies in the United States, incidentally, do not show large or consistent racial differences in gun ownership.) Or are other explanations more plausible? Could the disparity between Canadian and American rates of poverty among racial minorities have anything to do with it? What are the relative rates of drug or alcohol abuse? Of homelessness among each cty's minority population? (The city of Seattle runs the largest shelter for homeless men west of the Mississippi.) Unemployment among young, central-city, nonwhite men in the United States usually exceeds 40 percent. What is the comparable Canadian percentage? The crucial point is that Canada and the United States differ in many ways, as do cities and population subgroups with the two countries. Absent more detailed analysis, nearly any of these ""many ways"" might explain part or all of the difference in homicide rates. In gross comparisons such as those between Seattle and Vancouver, all else is *not* equal. * The authors of this study acknowledge that racial patterns in homicide * result in a ""complex picture."" They do not acknowledge that the ensuing * complexities seriously undercut the main thrust of their argument. They * also acknowledge that ""socio-economic status is probably an important * confounding factor in our comparison,"" remarking further that ""blacks * in Vancouver had a slightly higher mean income in 1981 than the rest of * Vancouver's population."" Given the evidence presented in the article, * it is possible that all of the difference in homicide rates between Seattle * and Vancouver results from greater proverty among Seattle's racial * minorities. But the authors pay no further attention to this possibility, * since ""detailed information about household incomes according to race * is not available for Vancouver."" The largely insurmountable methodological difficulties confronted in gross comparative studies of this sort can be illustrated with as simple example. If one were to take all U.S. couties and compare them in terms of (1) pervalence of gun ownership and (2) crime or homicide rates, one would find an astonishing pattern: Counties with more guns have less crime. Would one conclude from this evidence alone that guns actually reduce crime? Or would one insist that other variables also be taken into account? In this example, the ""hidden variable"" is city size: Guns are more common in small towns and rural areas, whereas crime is a big-city problem. If researchers failed to anticipate this variable, or lacked the appropriate data to examine its possible consequences, they coud be very seriously misled. In the study at hand, the authors matched two cities for size but not for minority poverty rates or other hidden variables, and their results are impossible to interpret. In the editorial ""Firearm Injuries: A Call for Science"" accompanying the study, two officials from the Centers for Disease Control lauded the authors for applying ""scientific methods"" to a problem of grave public heath significance. But in attempting to draw causal conclusions from nonexperimental research, the essence of scientific method is to anticipate plausible alternative explanations for the results and try to rule them out. Absent such effort, the results may well seem scientific but are little more than polemics masquerading as serious research. That this study is but one of a number of recent efforts--all employing practical identical research designs and published in leading scientific journals-- is cause for further concern. [James D. Wright is professor of sociology at Tulane University. He has researched extensively on the relationship of firearms and crime.] Reason published monthly except combined August-September issue by the Reason Foundation, a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization. Subscription rate: $24.00 per year. Reason Foundation 2716 Ocean Park Blvd. Suite 1062 Santa Monica, CA 90405 ",16 "Re: When is Apple going to ship CD300i's? In article <1r00fdINNddt@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> thewho@athena.mit.edu (Derek A Fong) writes: > >Interestingly enough, the CDROM 300i that came with my Quadra 800 has >only 8 disks: > >1. System Install >2. Kodak Photo CD sampler >3. Alice to Ocean >4. CDROM Titles >5. Application Demos >6. Mozart: Dissonant Quartet >7. Nautilus >8. Apple Chronicles > >Has anyone else noticed that they got less than everyone seems to be >getting with the external? What I really feel I missed out on is what >is supposed to a fantastic Games demo disk. > >I have heard that people have gotten up to 9-10 disks with their drive. >I assume they get the 8 titles above plus Cinderella and the Games Demo CDROM. > >any comments and experiences? Should I call Apple to complain? =) > >Derek > > >thewho@plume.mit.edu What I did NOT get with my drive (CD300i) is the System Install CD you listed as #1. Any ideas about how I can get one? I bought my IIvx 8/120 from Direct Express in Chicago (no complaints at all -- good price & good service). BTW, I've heard that the System Install CD can be used to boot the mac; however, my drive will NOT accept a CD caddy is the machine is off. How can you boot with it then? --Dave -- dlc@umcc.ais.org 313.485.3394 ",4 "Re: From Israeli press. Madness. In article <1483500342@igc.apc.org>, Center for Policy Research writes: > > From: Center for Policy Research > Subject: From Israeli press. Madness. > > /* Written 4:34 pm Apr 16, 1993 by cpr@igc.apc.org in igc:mideast.forum */ > /* ---------- ""From Israeli press. Madness."" ---------- */ > FROM THE ISRAELI PRESS. > > Paper: Zman Tel Aviv (Tel Aviv's time). Friday local Tel Aviv's > paper, affiliated with Maariv. > > Date: 19 February 1993 > > Journalist: Guy Ehrlich > > Subject: Interview with soldiers who served in the Duvdevan > (Cherry) units, which disguise themselves as Arabs and operate > within the occupied territories. > > Excerpts from the article: > > ""A lot has been written about the units who disguise themselves as > Arabs, things good and bad, some of the falsehoods. But the most > important problem of those units has been hardly dealt with. It is > that everyone who serves in the Cherry, after a time goes in one > way or another insane"". Gee, I'd better tell this to the Mental Health Branch of the Israeli Army Medical Corps ! Where would we be without you, Davidson ? > > A man who said this, who will here be called Danny (his full name > is known to the editors) served in the Cherry. After his discharge > from the army he works as delivery boy. His pal, who will here be > called Dudu was also serving in the Cherry, and is now about to > depart for a round-the-world tour. They both look no different > from average Israeli youngsters freshly discharged from conscript > service. But in their souls, one can notice something completely > different....It was not easy for them to come out with disclosures > about what happened to them. And they think that to most of their > fellows from the Cherry it woundn't be easy either. Yet after they > began to talk, it was nearly impossible to make them stop talking. > The following article will contain all the horror stories > recounted with an appalling openness. > > (...) A short time ago I was in command of a veteran team, in > which some of the fellows applied for release from the Cherry. We > called such soldiers H.I. 'Hit by the Intifada'. Under my command > was a soldier who talked to himself non-stop, which is a common > phenomenon in the Cherry. I sent him to a psychiatrist. But why I > should talk about others when I myself feel quite insane ? On > Fridays, when I come home, my parents know I cannot be talked to > until I go to the beach, surf a little, calm down and return. The > keys of my father's car must be ready for in advance, so that I > can go there. I they dare talk to me before, or whenever I don't > want them to talk to me, I just grab a chair and smash it > instantly. I know it is my nerve: Smashing chairs all the time > and then running away from home, to the car and to the beach. Only > there I become normal.(...) > > (...) Another friday I was eating a lunch prepared by my mother. > It was an omelette of sorts. She took the risk of sitting next to > me and talking to me. I then told my mother about an event which > was still fresh in my mind. I told her how I shot an Arab, and how > exactly his wound looked like when I went to inspect it. She began > to laugh hysterically. I wanted her to cry, and she dared laugh > straight in my face instead ! So I told her how my pal had made a > mincemeat of the two Arabs who were preparing the Molotov > cocktails. He shot them down, hitting them beautifully, exactly as > they deserved. One bullet had set a Molotov cocktail on fire, with > the effect that the Arab was burning all over, just beautifully. I > was delighted to see it. My pal fired three bullets, two at the > Arab with the Molotov cocktail, and the third at his chum. It hit > him straight in his ass. We both felt that we'd pulled off > something. > > Next I told my mother how another pal of mine split open the guts > in the belly of another Arab and how all of us ran toward that > spot to take a look. I reached the spot first. And then that Arab, > blood gushing forth from his body, spits at me. I yelled: 'Shut > up' and he dared talk back to me in Hebrew! So I just laughed > straight in his face. I am usually laughing when I stare at > something convulsing right before my eyes. Then I told him: 'All > right, wait a moment'. I left him in order to take a look at > another wounded Arab. I asked a soldier if that Arab could be > saved, if the bleeding from his artery could be stopped with the > help of a stone of something else like that. I keep telling all > this to my mother, with details, and she keeps laughing straight > into my face. This infuriated me. I got very angry, because I felt > I was becoming mad. So I stopped eating, seized the plate with he > omelette and some trimmings still on, and at once threw it over > her head. Only then she stopped laughing. At first she didn't know > what to say. > > (...) But I must tell you of a still other madness which falls > upon us frequently. I went with a friend to practice shooting on a > field. A gull appeared right in the middle of the field. My friend > shot it at once. Then we noticed four deer standing high up on the Sigh. Four (4) deer in Tel Aviv ?? Well, this is probably as accurate as the rest of this fantasy. > hill above us. My friend at once aimed at one of them and shot it. > We enjoyed the sight of it falling down the rock. We shot down two > deer more and went to take a look. When we climbed the rocks we > saw a young deer, badly wounded by our bullet, but still trying to > such some milk from its already dead mother. We carefully > inspected two paths, covered by blood and chunks of torn flesh of > the two deer we had hit. We were just delighted by that sight. We > had hit'em so good ! Then we decided to kill the young deer too, > so as spare it further suffering. I approached, took out my > revolver and shot him in the head several times from a very short > distance. When you shoot straight at the head you actually see the > bullets sinking in. But my fifth bullet made its brains fall > outside onto the ground, with the effect of splattering lots of > blood straight on us. This made us feel cured of the spurt of our > madness. Standing there soaked with blood, we felt we were like > beasts of prey. We couldn't explain what had happened to us. We > were almost in tears while walking down from that hill, and we > felt the whole day very badly. > > (...) We always go back to places we carried out assignments in. > This is why we can see them. When you see a guy you disabled, may > be for the rest of his life, you feel you got power. You feel > Godlike of sorts."" > > (...) Both Danny and Dudu contemplate at least at this moment > studying the acting. Dudu is not willing to work in any > security-linked occupation. Danny feels the exact opposite. 'Why > shouldn't I take advantage of the skills I have mastered so well ? > Why shouldn't I earn $3.000 for each chopped head I would deliver > while being a mercenary in South Africa ? This kind of job suits > me perfectly. I have no human emotions any more. If I get a > reasonable salary I will have no problem to board a plane to > Bosnia in order to fight there."" > > Transl. by Israel Shahak. > Yisrael Shahak the crackpot chemist ? Figures. I often see him in the Rechavia (Jerusalem) post office. A really sad figure. Actually, I feel sorry for him. He was in a concentration camp during the Holocaust and it must have affected him deeply. Josh backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL ",17 "Re: x86 ~= 680x0 ?? (How do they compare?) In article rvenkate@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Ravikuma Venkateswar) writes: [... stuff deleted] > >Besides, for 0 wait state performance, you'd need a cache anyway. I mean, >who uses a processor that runs at the speed of 80ns SIMMs? Note that this >memory speed corresponds to a clock speed of 12.5 MHz. > [more stuff deleted...] How do you calculate that figure? I'd assume even in personal computers the board designers would use bank switching to (optimistically) quadruple the access speed or am I missing something here? HSK -- Sie singen das alte Entsagungslied, das Eiapopeia vom Himmel, womit man beruhigt, wenn es greint, das Volk, den grossen Luemmel. Ein neues Lied, ein besseres Lied, oh Freunde, will ich Euch dichten, Wir wollen hier auf Erden schon das Himmelreich errichten. ... H. Heine ",4 "X-Terminal - 21"" 1280x1024 mono Forsale For Sale: GraphOn 21 X-Terminal -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Monitor adjustable between landscape and portrait orientation 1280x1024 Landscape resolution 1024x1280 Portrait resolution 21"" diagonal screen with very small footprint RS-232/423/422 support Thin and thick ethernet connectors VT220 and VT100 emulation Additional software for Sun machines provided Price: $1500.00 shipping extra (heavy: ~50lbs) Send email, offers, flames to: \\Lee thx1138%polarsun@rna.rockefeller.edu ",6 "RE: page setup in Notepad In a previous article, JOEL@jach.hawaii.edu (Joel Aycock) wrote: > > I struggled with the margin problem for ages as well, until I >finally got hold of the shareware binary editor BEAV133, and dug into >NOTEPAD.EXE (there is no SETUP facility to force NOTEPAD to default to >0.0 margins- it's hardwired into code!!!). > > Do a SEARCH for "".75"", then change the offending bytes to "".00"", >et viola. Who are the guys who hardcode these ""options"" anyway? > > I'm interested in whether the problem only rears it's ugly head for >certain printers- I'm using an old Epson LX-800 (or is that EX-800? never can >remember). > >aloha. You are nto alone. I get the same problems with my Panasonic kpx 1124i (24 pin). Oterhwise, it's a great printer. I just can't find a driver for it, only for the non-""i"" version. Anyone seen it? Rob |------------------------------------------------------------| \ rmohns@vax.clarku.edu / _________\ /________ \ Rob Mohns / ================================================== Annoy Rush Limbaugh. Think for yourself. ================================================== ",2 "Re: Certainty and Arrogance In article kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) writes: > >There is no way out of the loop. Oh contrer mon captitan! There is a way. Certainly it is not by human reason. Certainly it is not by human experience. (and yet it is both!) To paraphrase Sartre, the particular is absurd unless it has an infinite reference point. It is only because of God's own revelation that we can be absolute about a thing. Your logic comes to fruition in relativism. > >""At the core of all well-founded belief, lies belief that is unfounded."" > -- Ludwig Wittgenstein Ah, now it is clear. Ludwig was a desciple of Russell. Ludwig's fame is often explained by the fact that he spawned not one but two significant movements in contemporary philosophy. Both revolve around Tractatus Logico-Philosphicus ('21) and Philosophical Investigation ('53). Many of Witt's comments and implicit conclusions suggest ways of going beyond the explicit critique of language he offers. According to some of the implicit suggestions of Witt's thought, ordinary language is an invaluable resource, offering a necessary framework for the conduct of daily life. However, though its formal features remain the same, its content does not and it is always capable of being transcended as our experience changes and our understanding is deepened, giving us a clearer picture of what we are and what we wish to say. On Witt's own account, there is a dynamic fluidity of language. It is for this reason that any critique of language must move from talking about the limits of language to talking about its boundaries, where a boundary is understood not as a wall but a threshold. vonWrights's comment that Witt's ""sentences have a content that often lies deep beneath the surface of language."" On the surface, Witt talks of the insuperable position of ordinary language and the necessity of bringing ourselves to accept it without question. At the same time, we are faced with Witt's own creative uses of language and his concern for bringing about changes in our traditional modes of understanding. Philosophy, then, through more perspicacious speech, seeks to effect this unity rather than assuming that it is already functioning. Yes? The most brilliant of scientists are unable to offer a foundation for human speech so long as they reject Christianity! In his Tractatus we have the well nigh perfect exhibition of the nature of the impasse of the scientific ideal of exhaustive logical analysis of Reality by man. Perfect language does not exist for fallen man, therefore we must get on about our buisness of relating Truth via ordinary language. This is why John's Gospel is so dear to most Christians. It is so simple in it conveyance of the revealation of God, yet so full of unlieing depth of understanding. He viewed Christ from the OT concept of ""as a man thinketh, so he is."" John looked at the outward as only an indicator of what was inside, that is the consciousness of Christ. And so must we. Words are only vehicals of truth. He is truth. The scriptures are plain in their expounding that there is a Truth and that it is knowable. THere are absolutes, and they too are knowable. However, they are only knowable when He reveals them to the individual. There is, and we shouldn't shy from this, a mysticism to Christianity. Paul in ROm 8 says there are 3 men in the world. There is the one who does not have the Spirit and therefore can not know the things of the Spirit (the Spirit of Truth) and there is the one who has the Spirit and has the capacity to know of the Truth, but there is the third. THe one who not only has the Spirit, but that the Spirit has him! Who can know the deep things of God and reveal them to us other than the Spirit. And it is only the deep things of GOd that are absolute and true. There is such a thing as true truth and it is real, it can be experienced and it is verifiable. I disagree with Dr Nancy's Sweetie's conclusion because if it is taken to fruition it leads to relativism which leads to dispair. ""I would know the words which He would answer me, and understand what He would say unto me."" Job 23ff --Rex suggested, easy reading about epistimology: ""He is there and He is not Silent"" by Francis Schaeffer. ",15 "Re: Albert Sabin Sheesh! I must say Bill, that I am answering a lot of your BS today. I reckon you should have an award for it. Isn't it about time that you started supporting your arguements or shut up? And now on with the show: ----------------------------------------------------------> In article <1993Apr15.231515.19982@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes: |> In article , rfox@charlie.usd.edu (Rich Fox, Univ of South Dakota) writes: |> |> The problem is that most scientists exclude the possibility of the |> supernatural in the question of origins. Is this is a fair premise? |> I utterly reject the hypothesis that science is the highest form of |> truth. Then forward your reasons and your evidence. | |> Good deeds do not justify a person in God's sight. |> An atonement (Jesus) is needed to atone for sin. This is a non-sequiteur. For a start, if God (tm) exists, how do you know what he is thinking?! | |> |> My point: God is the creator. Look's like we agree. Proof please. |> |> I'll send you some info via e-mail. Please post it to the net. We could all do with a laugh. |> Regards, Bill. |> |> -- |> ========================================================== |> // Bill Rawlins // |> // ""I speak for myself only"" // |> ========================================================== Hwyl fawr, Adda -- +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) | | eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! | +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",0 "Re: Is it illegal to transmit encrypted data? wcs@anchor.ho.att.com (Bill Stewart +1-908-949-0705) writes: >The fact that the NSA is listening may affect your willingness to use >wimpy crypto technologies, but it may also affect your willingness to >use technologies that violate RSA's patents, e.g. if you use PGP, the >NSA may tell RSA that you're doing so, and if the Secret Service catches on, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that point. NSA will *not* tell RSA or any other non-DOD entity anything that its eavesdropping reveals. That includes the FBI and Secrect Service (although there have been rare exceptions). ",11 "Re: Red Wings Goespel... Don't forget Paul Ysebaert, ex-Devil. He's a good team player. Michael Sy mvs1@cec2.wustl.edu /|______|\ |||||||||||| \||||||||/ .---. )|||||/' /|||||\ /|||||/ /|||||||\ /|||||/ NEW JERSEY DEVILS /|||||||||\/|||||/ /||||||||||||||||/ /||||||||||||||||/ /||||||||||||||||/ /||||||/\||||||||/ /||||||/ \||||||/ ''''' .____/|||||/ ../|||||||||||' /|./||||||||||||||' /|||||' ''' //|\ ",10 "Re: REVISED TECHNICAL SUMMARY OF CLIPPER CHIP In article <1993Apr21.192615.3465@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>, denning@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes: |> The chips are programmed by Mykotronx, Inc., which calls them the |> ""MYK-78."" The silicon is supplied by VLSI Technology Inc. They are |> implemented in 1 micron technology and will initially sell for about |> $30 each in quantities of 10,000 or more. The price should drop as the |> technology is shrunk to .8 micron. Hmmmmmm. $30 seems a bit expensive. How big is the chip? What kind of packages will be used? 3 volt or 5 volt technology? How much current will it draw? I think there are many practical questions that haven't been answered, especially since this chip already exists! |> All Clipper Chips are programmed inside a SCIF (Secure Compartmented |> Information Facility), which is essentially a vault. The SCIF contains |> a laptop computer and equipment to program the chips. About 300 chips |> are programmed during a single session. The SCIF is located at |> Mykotronx. |> |> At the beginning of a session, a trusted agent from each of the two key |> escrow agencies enters the vault. Agent 1 enters a secret, random |> 80-bit value S1 into the laptop and agent 2 enters a secret, random |> 80-bit value S2. These random values serve as seeds to generate unit |> keys for a sequence of serial numbers. Thus, the unit keys are a |> function of 160 secret, random bits, where each agent knows only 80. OK, I've got a big problem with all of this. How in the world do you expect to sell these chips for even $30 after all the overhead involved in this programming procedure? 2-4 people, a laptop, only 300 chips at a time: give me a break. And how long does all of this take? Even if it is a minute per chip, it will take the greater part of a day to turn out 300 of these things. How long do you suppose it will take to program those 10,000 chips mentioned above? This is highly impractical! |> To see how the chip is used, imagine that it is embedded in the AT&T |> telephone security device (as it will be). Suppose I call someone and |> we both have such a device. After pushing a button to start a secure |> conversation, my security device will negotiate an 80-bit session key K |> with the device at the other end. So where can I find info on this AT&T device? What kind of vocoder does it use? Does it require ISDN phone lines? If not, is it full duplex? How does it sound? What kind of synchronization scheme is used? Will all other little black boxes have to conform to AT&Ts choices of protocol, etc.? Will anybody else be allowed to build boxes that conform to these specifications? -- Doug Bank Private Systems Division dougb@ecs.comm.mot.com Motorola Communications Sector dougb@nwu.edu Schaumburg, Illinois dougb@casbah.acns.nwu.edu 708-576-8207 ",11 "PC Syquest on a Mac?? Is it possible, ie via creative cable splicing or whatever, to hook a Syquest 44MB removable drive to a Mac? Is there any difference with the guts of the drive or is it just cable differences? Thanks. Rob -- Rob Sprecher rcs8@po.cwru.edu ",4 "Re: BALTIC states and ""realism"" and 'virvir' drivel In article <1sv6r1$f0m@zip.eecs.umich.edu> sechrest@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Stuart Sechrest) writes: >> Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and >> published by a member of American ""Near East Relief Organization."" >> Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem >> people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and >> Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities >> against the Turkish people in Armenia. >Actually, it is Leonard *R as in Ramsden* Hartill. Ditto. Source: ""Men Are Like That"" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). (Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) >But, as you point out so often, there is no use arguing with easily >verified facts: >``As the Turks had solved the Armenian problem in Turkey by slaying >or driving the Armenians out of the country, so we now proceeded >to solve the Tartar problem in Armenia. We closed the roads and >mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Tartars, >and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'' > Ohanus Appressian, from L. R. Hartill, ``Men Are Like That,'' > The Bobbs-Merrill Company, London, 1928. P. 202. You have set up straw horses and knocked them down. I'm not impressed. Let us ask Armenian scholars - shall we? Source: K. S. Papazian, ""Patriotism Perverted,"" Baikar Press, Boston, 1934. pp. 17-18. ""It seems that terrorism against their own co-nationals has been a prominent part of the revolutionary activities of the Dashnag leaders of the Caucasus. Organized to fight the Turks, these chieftains have been more successful in their fight against their Armenian opponents in Turkey, and the Caucasus, very often defenseless and innocent."" p. 25. ""We were defeated"". p. 38. ""The fact remains, however, that the leaders of the Turkish Armenian section of the Dashnagtzoutune did not carry out their promise of loyalty to the Turkish cause when the Turks entered the war...and a call was sent for Armenian volunteers to fight the Turks on the Caucasian front."" p. 38. ""Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16."" By the way, here is the entire paragraph. ""We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the scattered bones of the dead."" Ohanus Appressian ""Men Are Like That"" p. 202. Now wait, there is more. 1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5] 2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4] 3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4] 4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,3,4] 5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,2,3,4] 6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4] 7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet Armenia.[1,2,3,4] 8).... [1] McCarthy, J., ""Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman Anatolia and the End of the Empire,"" New York University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144. [2] Karpat, K., ""Ottoman Population,"" The University of Wisconsin Press, 1985. [3] Hovannisian, R. G., ""Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37. [4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies in 1914, ""History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."" (London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316. [5] ""Gochnak"" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24, 1915. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "AIRLINE TICKET FOR SALE AIRLINE TICKET ATA TO CINCINNATI I have a friend who has one ticket from ATLANTA to CIN, OH. It is one seat in economy class on Delta. The ticket is the return half of a round trip. It is currently in a woman's name. She does not need to fly back. Need to sell the ticket. Flyer would go standby because ticket is dated. Asking $90. I am posting this for my friend. Please do not email responses to me. Instead contact Rick at 513-271-4169. -- Michael Davis Smith Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0463b Internet: gt0463b@prism.gatech.edu ",6 "Re: Binyamin Netanyahu on CNN tonight. In article mkaye@world.std.com (Martin Kaye) writes: Great interview with Benjamin Netanyahu on CNN - Larry King Live (4/15/93) This guy is knows what he is talking about. He is truely charismatic, articulate, intelligent, and demonstrates real leadership qualities. I agree, but I wish I liked his politics. -- Stewart M. Clamen Internet: clamen@cs.cmu.edu School of Computer Science UUCP: uunet!""clamen@cs.cmu.edu"" Carnegie Mellon University Phone: +1 412 268 2145 5000 Forbes Avenue Fax: +1 412 681 5739 Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA ",17 "Silence is concurance Is it not the case that, in the eyes of the law, when someone is aware of something and has the capability of taking action and does not, that individual may be held responsible for that action? Example: the driver of a getaway car may be held as an accomplice to murder. The ""I didn't know"" defense spawned the ""ignorance of the law is no excuse"" When an individual is held as a material witness to a crime, is there a criminal charge against the individual? If not, on what grounds is the person imprisoned? -- James W. Meritt: m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@mitre.org The opinions above are mine. If anyone else wants to share them, fine. They may say so if they wish. The facts ""belong"" to noone and simply are. ",19 "Re: What to do if you shoot somebody In article <93108.025818U28037@uicvm.uic.edu> Jason Kratz writes: >Say you're in a situation where you have to pull a gun on somebody. You >give them a chance to get away but they decided to continue in their >action anyway and you end up shooting and killing them. My question is >what do you do? Should you stay and wait for the cops or should you >collect your brass (if you're using a semi-auto) and get out of there >(provided of course you don't think that you have been seen)? For me, it would be an obvious choice: Armed self-defence is clearly and strongly protected by the Colorado Constitution and the laws of the state. In the very clear-cut situation of your hypothetical, I wouldn't have anything to fear from the police (unless I had been publicly carrying the weapon concealed, something I'm not in the habit of doing... Even then, the worst I'd have to deal with was a class 2 misdemeanor.) Even if the situation were not so clear, and I might have to worry about arrest for manslaughter or homicide, it would still be safer to wait for the police. If I were to leave and try to avoid police involvement, I'd be committing several felonies and ruining my chances of claiming self-defence in court (""If it really was self-defence,"" the prosecuter would ask, ""why did you run away and hide from the police?"") In other states, however, this decision might not be so clear-cut: If someone in, say, Washington D.C. were to use a gun in self-defence he would _automatically_ be guilty of several felony violations of that city's gun control laws. Such a person's choices would be between certain conviction for a couple of felonies versus possible conviction for half a dozen. Frank Crary CU Boulder ",16 "Re: exit codes (dos--sorry for wrong group : ( Internal DOS commands (certainly 3.3 and before) do not set the exit code. This is a royal pain if you want to do anything which checks for successful deletions etc. The best suggestion is to use 4dos which does return you exit codes. It also has move command, Simon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Rowe, srowe@fulcrum.co.uk Fulcrum Communications Ltd, Birmingham, Condition ""BRAIN_OVERLOAD$"" raised at ENGLAND. 5412(0)/12234 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",2 "Re: cults (who keeps them going ?) muttiah@thistle.ecn.purdue.edu (Ranjan S Muttiah) writes: >In article sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes: >>>... bad thoughts these. >> >> well it depends on whether you take the literal dictionary definition of >>cult and say all faiths are cults, or if you take a more social-context >>view of ""cult which allows you to recognize mainstream religions as >>socially-acceptable and cults as groups that involve techniques of brain- >>washing and all the other characteristics that define oppressive [probly not >>the *best* word] cult behaviour. >Yeah, but implicitly the social-context view provides a justification >for the dictionary definition of a cult; those who follow the mainstream >pretend while those in cults act based on the very same impulses. Now >who is to be taken seriously ? ;-). i'm confused. could you restate what yer saying in ""those who follow the mainstream pretend"" and ""act based on the very same impulses""? ",19 "Re: Opel owners? boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes: >In article cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes: >>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes: >>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars. Now you ask, which model? >>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater, >>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking. My >>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition, >>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run >>>for a while. Does anyone have any info on these cars? The engine >>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and >>>I am quite interested in it. >>>Thanks! >>>Darren Gibbons >>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca >> >> This would be the manta, would it not??? Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader???? >Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same >chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily >be wrong. I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels. >Craig I think the Manta is the European name for the ""GT."" I'm pretty sure that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans. I think the GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta. -- Chintan Amin mail: llama@uiuc.edu *******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA******** ",7 "Re: X Design choice for color handling: question In article , sirosh@cs.utexas.edu (Joseph Sirosh) writes: |> Most graphics systems I have seen have drawing routines that also specify |> a color for drawing, like |> |> Drawpoint(x,y,color) or Drawline(x1,y1,x2,y2,color) or |> Fillrectangle(x1,y1,x2,y2,color) |> |> With X, I have to do something like |> XSetForeground(current_color) |> XDrawPoint(d,w,x,y) |> |> Why split this into two functions? Why did X designers decide to not associate |> the color with the object being drawn, and instead associate it with the |> display it is being drawn on? For flexibility. Anyway, what you say is not really true. The color information is associated with a GraphicsContext, not with a display, and the GC _IS_ a parameter to the drawing routines. So, if you need to fast switch between green dotted lines and blue ones of width 2, you can make 2 GCs for those cases and then simply do XDrawLine(dpy,win,gc_red,x1,y1,x2,y2); XDrawLine(dpy,win,gc_blue,x3,y3,x4,y4); for this effect. This is eventually more complicated to do for the programmer, but also much more efficient and flexible. You would not include all the other parameters like line pattern, with, cap and joinstyle, drawmode and so on in every drawing call, so why do it for color ? BTW, stay away from XDrawPoint() if you don't really need it (to draw RANDOM points), for image transfers there are Image routines. -- +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ | o | \\\- Brain Inside -/// | o | | o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o | | o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o | +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ ",5 "Re: Clipper considered harmful [Restated and amplified] strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > If the crooks use an innocent person's clipper phone on the tapped line > there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just > that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the > serial number, get the keys, and they are in business. > > No clipper chip to person association is ever needed. celular phones........... jon ",11 "Changing system fonts I would like to change all of the system fonts in windows... I have a program that will generate system fonts from truetype, but i was wondering if there is a problem to help you set up all your system fonts. Also, how do i change the icon text color... all of my icon text is black, and i want to change it... couldn't find any options in control panel or in win.ini brad cain brad@bach.udel.edu -- **************************************************************************** brad@bach.udel.edu Brad Cain N3NAF cain@snow-white.ee.udel.edu University of Delaware Electrical Engineering cain@freezer.cns.udel.edu ""Blah, blah, blah"" alt.blah ",2 "Fwd: PROGRESSIVES HAPPY HOUR --------- Forwarding begins here --------- Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 15:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Women's Center To: +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr0/women/dlists/happyhour-announce.dl@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: PROGRESSIVES HAPPY HOUR Enjoy good food and interesting company at the Progressives Happy Hour, Thursday 8 April, starting at 5:30pm at the Women's Center (located next to the laundromat in the Margaret Morrison Plaza). Kosher for Passover food will be served. All are welcome. (Good things to drink will be there, but paper cups won't. Please be progressive and bring a cup or mug with you.) Co-sponsored by the Student Government President and funded by the student activites fee. ----------- End of forwarding ----------- ",5 "Re: Astros Are Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In article <15APR199311534452@rosie.uh.edu> st1rp@rosie.uh.edu (Schwam, David S.) writes: >In article , marc@yogi.austin.ibm.com (Marc J. Stephenson) writes... >> 2) Astros relief corps holding together. If Doug Jones keeps his changeup >> effective and Xavier Hernandez can be effective, then it's passable. >> There's no reasonable left-handed help, and the middle relief is iffy. >> Tom Edens was expected to take over the Joe Boever setup man role, but >> he's been injured, and he was an expansion team acquisition anyway. >> Houston thought that Boever would demand too much money, so they let him >> go. Doug Jones can lose his touch - he went from Cleveland's all-star >> closer to the minors in a pretty short span. > > From what I understand, Boever and Murphy were considered expendable by the ^^^^^^ >club. Houston felt that their positions could be filled by a number of >players.. Art Doug Jones is the key to Houston's success. He must have >another great year for Houston to challenge in the NL West. No argument at all with Murphy. He scared the hell out of me when he came in last year. On the other hand, the club though enough of Boever to put him into an awful lot of games (he may have led the league in appearances - he did at least at some point). He seemed to be a very viable setup guy - but I guess that's not considered that crucial by the club. I can just remember two years ago so well, though... ... > The unsuspected strength of the lower part of the order has saved the > club so far. Biggio and Finley just aren't doing their job of getting > on base. Instead of filling his role as an RBI man, Bagwell has had to > assume Biggio and Finley's job. Biggio concerns me, since he usually > starts the season very strong. I'm not that concerned. Those guys have been relatively consistent over the years and they have no good reasons to decline (no injuries, not old, ...). I expect them to come through just fine. It's those guys that have not been consistently good that are the worrisome part, even if they are coming through right now. > * * * * * * > > On a side note, are you at all concerned with the rumors concerning >next year's uniform? There is talk that their road uniform will be >(blech..) traditional grey, with the word ""HOUSTON"" written across the >chest. If I'm not mistaken, their home uniforms may totally eliminate >the color orange (shiver..). McLane's favorite color is red, so... This sounds like their old road unis. Pretty dull. Buttons or pullovers? I'll check through my uniform book to see if they've always had some orange. > I'm really upset.. the current unforms are dull and the new ones sound >horrible. I'd like to see the uniform of the mid-1980s return. They >may not have been pretty, but Houston had established a long precident of >wearing the ugliest uniforms in baseball -- and I liked it. Well, we'll see. I've got a Astros pullover shirt with the ""Astros stripes"" across the shoulders and I have trouble making myself wear it in public. i can see why they might want that to change. Gee, if they eliminate the orange, will they reupholster the seats in the Astros stripes section (what used to be the gold and yellow levels - I don't know those numbers they use now). I saw a pinstripe version of an Astros cap and I actually thought it looked good! -- Marc Stephenson IBM AWS (Advanced Workstations & Systems - Austin,TX) DISCLAIMER: The content of this posting is independent of official IBM position. INTERNET->marc@austin.ibm.com VNET: MARC at AUSVMQ IBM T/L: 678-3189 ",9 "Re: BEST FIRST BASEMEN... In article <1993Apr20.102857.1@tesla.njit.edu>, drm6640@tesla.njit.edu wrote: > > DON MATTINGLY IS THE BEST FIRST BASEMAN IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL.....ALWAYS > HAS BEEN.....ALWAYS WILL BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, Keith Hernandez is the best. -Sean ******************************************************************************* ""Behind the bag!"" - Vin Scully ******************************************************************************* ",9 "***** HIGH-END CAR STEREO FOR SALE ***** ============================================================================= NOTE: This is being posted for a friend. DO NOT REPLY to my account. Please direct all replies to Scott Burke at scott@sparcom.com ============================================================================= Alpine 5959S 6-CD Shuttle. Paid $600, want $420/OBO. Alpine 1203 Remote CD Changer Control. Paid $250, want $175/OBO. Boston ProSeries 10.0 Subwoofers (2) + Box. Paid $545, want $380/OBO. All equipment is under 6 months old and includes a full-replacement 5-year warranty from original point of purchase. The subwoofer box was custom designed to fit in the back of a Bronco II and is 14"" by 21"" by 27"". Send replies to: scott@sparcom.com ----- Scott Burke - Project Leader - Sparcom Corporation - Corvallis OR scott@sparcom.com - Telephone (503) 757-8416 - FAX (503) 753-7821 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""Just waiting for the nuts..."" Brett Barksdale brett@porky.oce.orst.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",6 "Re: RGB to HVS, and back In article , zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh) writes: >|> See Foley, van Dam, Feiner, and Hughes, _Computer Graphics: Principles >|> and Practice, Second Edition_. >|> >|> [If people would *read* this book, 75 percent of the questions in this >|> froup would disappear overnight...] >|> > Not really. I think it is less than 10%. Or alternatively, 75% of the questions cover 10% of the topics in this group - making them frequently asked. So the other 25% cover 90% of the topics, making them rarely asked and thus in sore need of answering ... -- Chris Lilley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, Manchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk Voice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",1 "Re: New Religion Forming -- Sign Up *yawn* The Church of Kibology did it first and better. ",19 "80386 and 80486: What's the difference? Except from clock frequency, what are the differences between the various types of 386 and 486 processors? The following is a list with what I know (or perhaps only what I think I know!). Can anybody extend & correct? 80386: True 32 bit processor. (cache?) 80386SX: Emulates 80386 with a 16 bit bus. 80486: True 32 bit processor. Internal mathematical coprocessor (Correct?) Internal cache (Correct? How big?) (extended instruction set in any way?) 80486SX: Probably sorta like 80486... 80486DX: Probably sorta like 80386... Well, it's not much, but I'm sure there is a lot of people out there who can add a lot of information. Post or email as you prefer. +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lars J|dal | Q: What's the difference between a quantum | | email: joedal@dfi.aau.dk | mechanic and an auto mechanic? | | Physics student at the | A: A quantum mechanic can get his car into | | University of Aarhus | the garage without opening the door. | | Denmark | -- David Kra | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",3 "Nose Picking I have two quations to ask: 1) Does it cause the body any harm if one picks one's nose? For example, might it lead to a loss of ability to smell? 2) Is it harmful for one to eat one's nose pickings? Stephen ",13 "WANTED - YAMAHA PARTS ",8 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article bferrell@ant.occ.uc.edu (Brett Ferrell) writes: >In article <1993May1.154707.10177@hubcap.clemson.edu> ludes@hubcap.clemson.edu (Larry ""Ludes"" Ludwig) writes: [munch] >>You must of read too many OS/2 advertisements. ""Crash Protection"" is such >>a marketing gimick, it isn't funny.. Out of 4 months of using Windows on my >>new machine I've only had it crash ONCE, and I don't have a ""run of the mill"" >>configuration. [munch following is reformatted] >It does sound funny, I will admit. But for me it is true. Windows > crashed on >all of the time (and from what I have read in PC Mag, this is not > the exception) I'd say that the massive crash problems are exceedingly rare. Windows _itself_ almost never crashes, but it can be crashed by an errant application (My personal favorite? Any one of the Corel 3.0 programs). On the other hand, I have had OS/2 crash randomly a number of times, mostly just running it's own applications. For instance. Today I discovered a new one. While I was downloading with Procomm Plus For Windows (running seamless with the standard VGA drivers on a run-o' da mill VGA card--640x480), I decided that I wanted to edit a copy of a quote that I wanted to add to my .finger. But since I've learned not to really trust seamless, I fired up a full screen WinOS/23.1 session. Whoops, the download finished while WinOS/2 was loading. It had _just_ gotten the pointer up, so I hit alt-escape to get back t the desktop (I have a lot of fonts, so loading takes a good long while). Blam. Screen trashed, Procomm hangs up. Hm. Well, I can sorta see the mouse, so I clicked on the minimized WINOS/2 session and got back my fullscreen Windows session (but the color were off--red and green and yellow and brown instead of blues and greys). So I closed this, and got back to the desktop (now fully restored). PP+ was still sitting, window open, but it was no longer ""connected"" to the com port--so I exited it (the normal way-- it told me I was still online and it would hang up, though it was _already_ hung up). Hm. Well, load anothe--no, bad idea. Shutdown and reboot. Ok, refresh first.. Now, shutdown. Yes, everything is closed... Hm. Nothing seems to be happening. Let's see.. Ah, the windows list still comes up. OK, let's try shutdown again. No go. Huh. Alright, wait 60 seconds to see if it's just running slow. Hmm. Still seems to be running OS/2. Try shutdown again. Nothing. Oh well. Reboot. Enjoy the checkdisk time. In this case, a part of the OS crashed not only itself, but OS/2 entirely (which isn't even smart enough to tell when it;s been compromised, I guess). In everyday (specifically _today_) use. > OS/2 gives each windows app a VDM and they can't touch each other or >(generally) anything they aren't supposed to have. That's the idea, anyway. In truth, when a program crashes on OS/2, it will bring the system down with it. The programs that would just GPF under Windows do the same under OS/2, but programs that are fine under DOS and Windows bring OS/2 screaming to a halt, task protection or no. For instance, I'm still wondering why print preview in a windowed WP 5.1 (DOS) locks up my system. It works fine under DOS or even in a dos box under Windows 3.1. (Admittedly, it doesn't crash if I run WP51 full screen, but the first time this bug big me, it bit hard). > If windows works for you, >then great. Maybe this is why some people don't see why OS/2 is the OS of >choice. If windows doesn't crash on you, and you don't mind waiting on each >task, Please explain. The only time I wait on anything under Windows is when I'm copying or formatting a floppy, or when printing (and even then, not long--I get 9 to 11 pages dumped to the printman per minute, and can _still_ go do things--slowly--while it's doing this--I've downloaded with PP+ @9600 while printing). > and not being able to adress your memory better than DOS, Not sure what you mean here. OS/2 sees 16 megs, uses 5 or six of these for it's own use (more if you want to count WinOS/2). Windows sees 16 megs, uses 3 or 4 (more like 5 if you count the disk cache as I am for OS/2) for itself. If memory efficiency were a big issue, PC GEOS would be the current king of the Intel desktop. > some of the >key reasons for using OS/2 are gone. I probably would still use it, but it >would be more of an even fight. On the other hand.. I am finally able to say with some confidence that both OS/2 and Windows have a bit of hardware sensitivity to them. For instance, the machine I am sitting at runs both fine, while the machine next to me constantly locks up under Windows. (But ran OS/2 without a hitch once I got it through a 5-crash install). On the whole, I'd say OS/2 is a whole lot more sensitive than Windows, but there are (I suppose) machines that Windows just doesn't like. >Wittism of th week: ""I think that it's wrong to believe in an ism, you should > believe in yourself"" Ferrish Bueller Wasn't this _Ferris_ Bueller? -- There are stupid laws, and then there are stupider than normal laws. ",2 "Re: Why circuit boards are green? Why are circuit boards green? The material used to make them goes by two names. If it is used to make circuit boards it is called FR-4. The same material is used in the cryogenics industrya and marine industries as a structural material and is called G-10. FR-4 and G-10 are both green. They are not green because of a solder masking agent. The basic ingredients are a clear epoxy resin and glass fibers. I am not sure what the specs are on the resin, but if you are really curious you can call NEMA (National Electronics Manufacturing Association) or Ciba Geigy (a major manufacturer of epoxy resins) to find out. As an aside, I occasionally mix clear epoxy and glass microsphres to cast small structures for cryogenics experiments. The proportions of glass to epoxy are about the same as in G-10. They are the same green color. ",12 "Realtime X-tensions Hi, Iam looking for information on any work that deals with real-time support in X-windows????!! Would be happy if you could provide any pointers or information thanks Lakshman lakshman@ms.uky.edu ",5 "Re: Israel's Expansion II ab4z@Virginia.EDU (""Andi Beyer"") writes: >I understand how israel captured the teritory and feels that it >is its right to annex it. I can't fully understand why it has >to deal with palestinians much the same way jews were treated >before the holocaust (the Final Solution) by Hitler. What I >totally don't get is why the U.S. has to subsidize the >existance of such a thorough abuser of human rights. > Just wondering Seems that you're more ""just misinformed"" than ""just wondering."" The comparison you're making is not just totally off base, but offensive to all sane people. -- Alan H. Stein astein@israel.nysernet.org ",17 "PHIGS User Group Conference FIRST ANNUAL PHIGS USER GROUP CONFERENCE The First Annual PHIGS User Group Conference was held March 21-24 in Orlando, Florida. The conference was organized by the Rensse- laer Design Research Center in co-operation with IEEE and SIG- GRAPH. Attendees came from five countries spanning three con- tinents. A good cross-section of the PHIGS community was represented at this conference with participants including PHIGS users, workstation vendors, third-party PHIGS implementors, stan- dards committee members, and researchers from industry and academia. The opening speaker, Dr. Richard Puk, challenged PHIGS users to ""take charge of your PHIGS"" by participating in PHIGS standardization activities and communicating their needs to PHIGS implementors. The closing speaker, Dr. Andries Van Dam, described his vision of the future of graphics standards ""beyond PHIGS"". Technical paper sessions in the conference covered the following topics: PHIGS and X, Application Toolkits, Application Issues, Texture Mapping, NURBS, PHIGS Extensions, and Object-Oriented Libraries and Frameworks. Panel sessions on PHIGS and PEX, PHIGS Non-Retained Data, Real-World CAD Applications Using PHIGS, and Portability Issues generated enthusiastic discussions and formed a good forum for exchange of ideas, needs, and experiences. The conference also included a day full of tutorials on topics rang- ing from mathematics for 3D graphics to object-oriented tools based on PHIGS. Next year's conference is planned for March, 1994. PHIGS EVERYWHERE At the conference, PHIGS vendors described and demonstrated PHIGS products that run on all types of computers, from PCs to mainframes. Megatek Corporation demonstrated their PHIGS extensions including conditional traversal, composite logical input devices, texturing and translucency. Template Graphics Software launched FIGARO+ PRO, the Photo- Realistic Option for PHIGS+. FIGARO+ PRO is designed to add advanced rendering to the existing PHIGS+ API, with features like ray tracing, materials, anti-aliasing and texture mapping. Radiosity support is also planned. FIGARO+ is an example of how TGS continues to add newly emerging graphics features to their products. FIGARO+ supports immediate mode extensions to PHIGS and also supports SUN XGL, HP Starbase and SGI GL/OpenGL. FIGARO+ for NT will be released this summer. TGS also demonstrated the latest versions of FIGraph, a powerful ""2-call"" charting system based on PHIGS+, and FIGt, an object- oriented utility library for PHIGS/PEX developers. G5G and Gallium Software demonstrated a new version of GPHIGS on Silicon Graphics workstations. Scheduled for summer, 1993, Ver- sion 3.0 of GPHIGS, the company's PHIGS+ library for worksta- tions, will include an advanced PHIGS debugger that allows PHIGS developers to display and browse PHIGS structures and other PHIGS internal state. G5G also described their Non-Duplicated Data Store that stores pointers to application data in the GPHIGS CSS for more efficient use of memory. In addition, G5G described their application GSE that allows application callback functions during GPHIGS traversal. GPHIGS and PHIGURE, G5G's data visual- izer and application development toolkit, are currently available on all major workstations that support GL, X Windows, PEX, or Starbase. Wise Software presented a slide show of Z-PHIGS for MS-Windows and ARENA, a PHIGS based modeller/render. Z-PHIGS implements most of the PHIGS+ primitives. In addition Z-PHIGS has built in many advanced rendering features like texture mapping, shadow genera- tion, area quick updates and ray tracing. A demo disk of Z-PHIGS or ARENA is available on request. ATC exhibited GRAFPAK-PHIGS, their full-featured PHIGS implemen- tation based on DEC PHIGS. GRAFPAK-PHIGS is available on most workstation platforms with C, FORTRAN and Ada bindings and incor- porates PEX support. Within the booth sponsored by Advanced Technology Center, Digital Equipment Corporation demonstrated DEC PHIGS V2.4 running on the DEC 3000/400 AXP PXG. ATCs' GRAFPAK-PHIGS is a port of DEC PHIGS. DEC PHIGS V2.4 contains most PHIGS and PHIGS PLUS features with support for PEX V5.1 protocol. DEC PHIGS also contains most GM/EDS PHIGS extensions including post-to-view as well as proprietary extensions to support immediate mode rendering and the use of PHIGS in an X11 environment. AXP, DEC, and DEC PHIGS are trademarks of Digital Equipment Cor- poration. GRAFPAK-PHIGS and ATC are trademarks of Advanced Tech- nology Center. PEX and X11 are trademarks of Massachusetts Insti- tute of Technology. The IBM exhibit featured a GTO accelerator attached to an IBM 340 workstation running graPHIGS and PEX. Hewlett Packard and SHOgraphics demonstrated at the conference. A Hewlett Packard machine was coupled to display on a SHOgraphics PEX terminal. HP showcased their latest PHIGS product enhance- ments. PHIGS USER GROUP The PHIGS Users Group was formed to aid the development of PHIGS applications and provide user feedback to PHIGS implementors and PHIGS standards bodies. For more information about the PHIGS Users Group, send e-mail to: phigsug@cadrt10.me.vt.edu or write to: Sankar Jayaram Virginia Polytechnic Institute 114 Randolph Hall Blacksburg, Va. 24061-0238 FAX: 703-231-9100 VENDOR CONTACTS Megatek Corporation TEL (619) 455-5590 FAX (619) 453-7603 Template Graphics Software TEL (800) 544-4847 FAX (619) 452-2547 WISE software GmbH TEL +49-451-3909-413 FAX +49-451-3909-499 G5G - North American Sales TEL (800) 267-2626 FAX (613) 592-1278 Advanced Technology Center TEL (800) 999-5711 FAX (714) 583-9213 Digital Equipment Corporation TEL (603) 884-5111 International Business Machines Corporation TEL (800) 426-3333 Hewlett Packard Company TEL (303) 229-3800 COPIES OF THE CONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS Copies of the conference proceedings may be obtained by contact- ing Mary Johnson at: Johnson, Mary Design and Manufacturing Institute Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 110 Eighth Street Building CII, Room 7015 Troy, NY 12180-3590 Tel: (518)276-6754 Fax: (518)276-2702 Email: mjohnson@rdrc.rpi.edu The cost is $75.00 per binder. ",1 "Re: California Insurance Commissioner Endorses Federal Legislation to Protect Consumers from Scam Insurance Companies In article , rlm@helen.surfcty.com (Robert L. McMillin) rants: > The left likes to dodge the issues of morality and behavior, crying that > anyone who raises them ""blames the victim."" Nonetheless, as a recent > editorial in the {Los Angeles Times} pointed out, the free love > advocates of the 1960's have demolished the poor. It's one thing to > have children out of wedlock if you're, say, Murphy Brown (or someone > like her), turning over a six figure salary -- and quite another if > you're sixteen, have no skills, and no income. And how did the ""free love advocates of the 1960's"" manage to perform this demolition--forced breeding programs or something? > By accepting and even celebrating single, out-of-wedlock parenthood, the > 1960's radicals espousing free love set the stage for catastrophe among > the poor. They must account for this... Now let me get this straight. After a nice, long rant about how people need to take personal responsibility for their economic and social lives, all of a sudden 1960's radicals (such as me, I guess) are responsible for poor people's lifestyles? Tell me how that works--or do you think that poor people are just too dumb to think for themselves? There are many reasons for the disintegration of the family and support systems in general among this nation's poor. Somehow I don't think Murphy Brown--or Janis Joplin--is at the top of any sane person's list. You want to go after my generation's vaunted cultural revolution for a lasting change for the worse, try so-called ""relevant"" or ""values"" education. Hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time. How were we to know you needed a real education first--I mean, we took that for granted. *** *** Ken Perlow ***** ***** 05 Apr 93 ****** ****** 16 Germinal An CCI ***** ***** gadfly@ihspc.att.com ** ** ** ** ...L'AUDACE! *** *** TOUJOURS DE L'AUDACE! ENCORE DE L'AUDACE! ",18 "Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992, Third Base In craigs@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (Craig Stelter) writes: >Dale Stephenson (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) wrote: >: In steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes: >: >Compiled from the last five Defensive Average reports, here are the career >: >DAs for the individual players in the reports. Stats are courtesy of >: >Sherri Nichols. Players are listed in descending order. >: And some comments, with some players deleted. >: >Third Basemen >: >------------- >: >Leius, Scott ---- ---- ---- .653 .680 0.672 >: Looks good. Too bad he's moving to short. >: >Pagliarulo, Mike .631 ---- .575 .744 ---- 0.649 >: This is an interesting line. His 1988 figure was slightly below average. >: His 1990 was pathetic, and his 1991 was the next best year by anybody. Part of >: that may be his mobility. 1988 was with the Yankees. 1990 was with the >: Padres, who appear to have a rotten infield. 1991 was with the Twins, and >: judging by Leius and Gaetti, the Metrodome may be a good place to play >: third. >Gaetti, Gary .616 .638 .655 .632 ---- 0.637 >Apologies if I don't know what I'm talking about :-), but as a Twins fan, >I like to think they have good players in any park. Not sure if I remember >completely or not, but I think Gaetti played with the Twins in '87 for the >world series, and again in '88 (note that's his lowest of the 4). I believe >the next 3 (or at least the last two) were played with the Angels. Actually, Gaetti's first year with California was 1991. His .632 DA wasn't out of line with his career averages, and his .616 was actually below average in 1988. But check out the last three years at the Metrodome. 1990 Gaetti .655 AL Avg .604 1991 Pags .744 Leius .653 Al Avg .620 1992 Leius .680 AL Avg .603 For the last three years, the highest DAs in either league have been posted by Minnesota players -- three different ones, including one (Pags) who was mediocre to horrible elsewhere. That doesn't *prove* a park effect is at work, any more than San Diego's horrible infield numbers prove a park effect is at work. But it looks like a strong possibility to me. Lots >of factors make a player excell... I hate it when so many use the dome. >It may not be ideal, but nice to comfortably enjoy baseball and football >even when it's snowing and raining. And it might even be a nice play to thrid base. -- Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic ""It is considered good to look wise, especially when not overburdened with information"" -- J. Golden Kimball ",9 "Re: Long distance IR detection In article <1993Apr20.183416.18744@dres.dnd.ca>, sburton@dres.dnd.ca (Stan Burton) writes: > > -- > > I would like to be able to detect the angular position (low accuracy) of an > IR emitting source at a distance of about 100 meters (more is better) in > daylight. The IR source could be emitting a signature; I'm leaning toward > 30 KHz square wave with 50% duty cycle. > > I am considering the use of a quadrant detector from Centronic Inc. to give > information to a pan/tilt head to point the sensor and thus determine the > angles. For the source I am considering wazing the heck out of an IR LED(s), > possibly an Optek OP290 or Motorola MLED81. Wazing would mean at least 1 Amp > current pulses. At this current the duty cycle of the LED drops to 10% and I > would need to cycle five of them in turn to get the 50% required. > > Has anyone done something like this? > Why don't you just run one LED at 60 KHz and use a flip flop at the receiving end to divide by 2 and give you a good square 30KHz signal. Just a thought. LORI > Stan Burton (DND/CRAD/DRES/DTD/MSS/AGCG) sburton@dres.dnd.ca > (403) 544-4737 DRE Suffield, Box 4000, Medicine Hat, AB, Canada, T1A 8K6 -- <<>> Lori Gardi (519) 661-2111 ext 8695 Dept. of Astronomy, lgardi@uwovax.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario London, ON, CANADA, N6A 3K7 ",12 "Monthly Question about XCopyArea() and Expose Events (2nd posting of the question that just doesn't seem to get answered) Suppose you have an idle app with a realized and mapped Window that contains Xlib graphics. A button widget, when pressed, will cause a new item to be drawn in the Window. This action clearly should not call XCopyArea() (or equiv) directly; instead, it should register the existence of the new item in a memory structure and let the same expose event handler that handles ""regular"" expose events (e.g. window manager-driven exposures) take care of rendering the new image. Using an expose event handler is a ""proper"" way to do this because at the time the handler is called, the Xlib Window is guaranteed to be mapped. The problem, of course, is that no expose event is generated if the window is already visible and mapped. What we need to do is somehow ""tickle"" the Window so that the expose handler is hit with arguments that will enable it to render *just* the part of the window that contains the new item. What is the best way to tickle a window to produce this behavior? ",5 "Re: Selling of PowerBook 100s In article <1993Apr21.004232.7924@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes: >In article <1r1aaaINNt3d@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> cam@athena.mit.edu (Daniel Cameron Daly) writes: >>I have a PB 100 that I might be selling soon to upgrade to a Duo before >>graduation, to take advantage of the educational discount. To those who >>have recently bought or sold a PB 100, what kind of price did you get? >>Info on any config of PB100 appreciated. Thanks. >> >>-- >>Cam Daly > >Cam, > >Several months ago I bought a 4/40 PB100 with external floppy, AppleTalk >Remote Access, a Kensington case and AC adapter with complete documentation >and in almost new condition, used for US$900. I considered it a very good >buy and am very *cosy* with my little baby now... :-) > >Murray > Put me down for a PB100 4/20 with ext. floppy, AppleTalk Remote Acces, AC adapter, and fresh out of box (was used, but buyer switched to 140 on arrival and sold unopened box. Purchased last October for $925. Later I bought a used PowerPort V.32 9600 bps internal fax-modem for something like $225, I'm using right now! Works great! :) No real complaints. I love my portable system (got a color home setup also. Mac II). Reasoning was that MATLAB programs at school and other simulations of dynamic control systems sometimes took hours (or overnight) to run, tying up my Mac II. I got the PB100 with fast modem to do light work and on-the-run stuff. I figured I'd give it to my little sister next year when she goes to college. It's running System 7.1 now without any problems. Also I sometimes do DEC4015 terminal emulations with MATLAB on our university's VAX_VMS (nice thing that it benchmarks itself as an average of 230 times faster than a mac IIfx). So, the PB100 just does graphical output and terminal emulation (not too hard at all for it). It was a FABULOUS setup !!!! :) Weeee!!! (By the Way, all MATLAB software was on class accounts. I was also the TA for a class that used SIMULAB/SIMULINK. We had site-license and take-home, then-destroy later site-release licenses... No pirating there, incase you're wondering.... Great Program!!! ) Just like to add, whatever future system you get, you can almost never get enuff memory.... Buy it while it's cheap - that is buy it when you get the computer since it's usually cheaper than upgrading... I ALWAYS run out of disk space... But I have a syquest on the Mac IIsi, so I never worried about space before... Got several carts). -shishin ""squish"" yamada squish@endor.harvard.edu ",4 "Re: Guns GONE. Good Riddance ! jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes: >You are loosing. [stuff deleted] >Avoid situations which encourage criminals. Then you will >be as safe as possible. Such as it is ... Really? How do you avoid situations which encourage criminals? I'd really like to know. Would you, say, prohibit female college students from riding their bicycles near the university during the daytime? Sounds a bit drastic, doesn't it? Especially when the university is locatd in a nice residential area. A friend of mine was attacked and nearly raped in just this situation. The police didn't feel she was in a situation which 'encouraged criminals'. What do you think? Should we just tell her, that it was her fault for daring to ride a bicycle in the middle of the day? That she didn't avoid a situation that encouraged criminals? If that's the case, then we'd all better put bars on our doors and windows and pray for a police state to keep us all safe. Crime happens in all situations - there are no defined areas that criminals avoid. Larry Sacks Advanced Micro Devices lsacks@angelo.amd.com ",16 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU writes: >Assuming for the moment that the FBI believed in the bible and >were afraid of the seven seals, then they would also know >that God is the one who has to open the seals, not some >little prophet like Koresh. Fear doesn't usually follow reason. By the way, why do you call Koresh ""prophet""? Do you also believe in him? Personally, I think he's just some wierdo. -- +------------------------+------------------------------------+ | David Charlap | ""Apple II forever"" - Steve Wozniak | | dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | ""I drank what?"" - Socrates | +------------------------+------------------------------------+ ",16 "Tex texture map format? I was at avalon today and found texture maps in some ""tex"" and ""txc"" format, something I've never encountered before. These are obviously not tex or LaTeX files. IF you have a clue how I can convert these to something reasonable, please let me know. Brian ",1 "Re: Radar detector DETECTORS? In article <1993Apr14.133007.11055@Princeton.EDU> chinatti@tan.Princeton.EDU (Stephen Anthony Chinatti) writes: > CT just recently overturned the ban on radar detectors, it is no > longer illegal to possess/use a radar detector in a vehicle. Before, > when it WAS illegal, it was illegal to operate a radar detector, or > have a radar detector installed in your vehicle. If a cop pulled you > over, and you either had your detector on (operating) or had your > detector off but plugged in to a power source (installed), the cop > could sieze your detector, and you could get it back something like 1 > year and about $100 later (not 100% sure about time/fines). The fine was $35 and they could not seize your detector. -- # Monty Solomon / PO Box 2486 / Framingham, MA 01701-0405 # monty%roscom@think.com ",7 "Re: 17"" Monitors >the Mitsubishi. I also reviewed a new Nanao, the F550iW, which has just >been released. Last year for the May '92 issue of Windows, I reviewed Do you have the specs for this monitor? What have they changed from the F550i? Do you know if their is going to be a new T560i soon? (a T560iW?) Thanks. ",3 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is Mark McCullough (mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu) wrote: : In article <30136@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: : >Atoms are not objective. They aren't even real. What scientists call : >an atom is nothing more than a mathematical model that describes : >certain physical, observable properties of our surroundings. All : >of which is subjective. : > : >-jim halat : This deserves framing. It really does. ""[Atoms] aren't even real."" : Tell me then, those atoms we have seen with electron microscopes are : atoms now, so what are they? Figments of our imaginations? The : evidence that atoms are real is overwhelming, but I won't bother with : most evidence at the moment. You would have us believe that what the eye perceives as images are actaully there - as perceived? This may be interesting. I thought that an electron microscope was used because no wavelength of ""light"" can illuminate any ""object"" of atomic scale. If this image is to have useful resolution, wouldn't the illuminating sources wavelength have to be several orders of magnitude less than size of thing observed? If an atom is a ""probablity cloud"", lower resolutions would give the appearance of solidity, but it seems fairly certain that an atom is not an object is any conventional sense. Obviously I am not a physicist, but the question does have ramification of a philosophic nature. Anyway, just a stray thought, carry on ... Bill ",0 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In a previous article, mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) says: >So what if the FBI wasn't aware of suicide plans? This may not even be an >]accurate statement, anyway, since the last report of listening devices used >in the compound may reveal new information. We'll have to wait. Yeah, we may have to wait till hell freezes over. If they had listening devices in place, one would think they would have audiotapes as a result. Why, when officials are asked about what those devices picked up, do they stumble around and never answer the question? If they have them, I think people have a right to hear the tapes. > And what did you expect Koresh's attorneys to say? Their credibility >is shot anyway, since they *origianlly* said that Koresh was going to surrender >after the Passover. We saw how accurate that was. I don't contend that Koresh wasn't a liar. That's not really the issue. The issue is did the federal agents use the most prudent measures available in ""ending"" this fiasco (that in my opinion was bungled from the very beginning)? > And the survivors claim the fire was started from the outside. Outside >meaning outside the compound? Yes, the FBI reported seeing two people >(according to CNN reports) using torches to set the compound on fire. They >were outside. I don't know, and neither do you unless you were there, who started the fire. I hope we find out, but I have my doubts. > > Either way, I have evidence to support the theory that the BD's burned >themselves. Could you please show us this evidence that you have? Right now a lot of people on all sides of this issue are making conflicting statements right and left. Some real live evidence would be most welcome! You made a serious implication that the FBI was responsible >for the fire and the ""destruction of the people"". All you have done is >put doubt on who started the fire without providing any evidence to back >up your claim that the FBI was responsible. In my opinion, it is possible that the actions of the FBI: a) indirectly, b) directly but not intentionally, or c) intentionally (I hope not the latter, but we would be naive to discount this possibility entirely) caused the fire. It is possible that someone inside the community started the fire because they ""thought"" God told them to or because they simply would rather die than surrender. Who knows? We are left with some compelling questions here, besides the above. Why haven't the droves of news reporters commented on whether or not they heard shots coming from within the compound once the tank (I don't remember its technical name) started ramming down the door? It seems to me that gunshots would be audible at 2.5 to 3 miles away. Why couldn't the FBI wait until Koresh wrote his manuscript, as they had promised they would. Does the fact that Koresh lied justify the FBI's lying as well? Will an ""internal investigation"" really reveal what happened, if in fact the BATF and FBI are at least partly to blame? How will we ever know if Koresh broke the law as was alleged in the now-unsealed (finally!) warrant? Certainly we won't find out in a court of law. There's been a lot of talk about why the people didn't run out when the fire started, but one survivor said that the tank had collapsed the stairway and entryway and that the majority of the people were trapped. Only those in another part of the house escaped. People have commented on the unwillingness of the woman who came running out of the house with her clothes ablaze to remain outside rather than going back in. When was the last time you had your clothes on fire? Who the heck knows if you'd know which way you were running and why? I think the FBI agent who grabbed her and pulled her to safety acted heroically, btw. I'm certainly not trying to paint a picture of the ""evil feds"" by any means. I simply question the decisions from start to finish that led to the horrible tragedy of yesterday. >-- >John Mechalas ""I'm not an actor, but >mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu I play one on TV."" >Aero Engineering, Purdue University #include disclaimer.h > ",19 "Re: ""High Power"" Assault guns In article <1993Apr14.143825.13476@stortek.com> vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes: > Alaska with 1 UZI, 1 20 rnd Magazine, and 1 BIG Polar bear @ ^ I'd make that, ""1 BIG, MAD, and HUNGRY with CUBS NEARBY Polar bear @..."" Drew -- betz@gozer.idbsu.edu *** brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho *** *** when you outlaw rights, only outlaws will have rights *** *** spook fodder: fema, nsa, clinton, gore, insurrection, nsc, semtex, neptunium, terrorist, cia, mi5, mi6, kgb, deuterium ",16 "Re: Homosexuality issues in Christiani >He is hoping to pass a resolution that more or less states that we, the >members of the church ""Agree to Disagree"" on the issue, admitting that >both sides have honestly studied the Scriptures and had the Spirit lead >them to different conclusions. It worked last year when the abortion >issue threatened to do more or less the same thing, and he is hopeful that >the GA can foster a loving and caring attitude about people who disagree >with their own view. > >-- >Cliff Slaughterbeck | > >people would not be willing to. Note that the church was not willing >to live with this kind of compromise with ordination of women. The >one thing that will definitely prevent a person from becoming a >Presbyterian minister is if they indicate that they don't accept >ordination of women. The argument is that we can't have half the >church not accepting the leaders of the other half. Maybe people will > --clh] It might be interesting for folk to know that the Church of Scotland (also a Presbyterian church) managed to ""agree to disagree"" over women's ordination for 25 years. The reasoning was that congregations are free to call whoever they wish, and that Ministers and Sessions choose elders. If a congregation did not wish to have a woman, they were not obliged to, and if a Session did not wish to, they could not be forced to. (Note that the who issue of freedom to call on the part of the Congregation is VERY important here - this year is the 150th Annivarsary of the Disruption, where the church split on that very issue, they didn't get back together for almost 80 years). A couple of years ago on the 25 anniversary of the allowing of womens ordination the position was changed - so that, in theory, all ministers and elders must recognise that women can be ordained. In theory, a minister who refused to ordain a woman to his Session, or refused to work with a woman minister in Presbytery, could be disciplined. In practice this has not happened, and I believe it is unlikely to happen. My personal view is that the new legislation was a mistake, and that the permissive (but not prescriptive) legislation worked very well. We are going to start going round the homosexual debate at next years assembly. At this years, a motion was put to ban the blessing of same-sex couples (after an Edinburgh minister did so). Our Panel on Doctrine is currently looking at marriage, and will report next year - the matter will be considered and debated then. Hope this is interesting Alison ",15 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? In article , gsager@heliacal.Eng.Sun.COM (Gary Sager) writes... >BTW: when encouraging employees to power off monitors when leaving >work, it was pointed out that this should only be done with monitors >with the power switch on front. There was some indication that [deleted] This is a pet peeve of mine. I wish companies would put power switches on the front of the equipment! If my Apple monitor had the switch on the front, I would happily power it off at night. Almost every piece of computer equipment I own/use has the switch on the back (including external hard drives and modems--why?). I hope front-mounted switches become the norm, and soon. Rich +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Richard C. Long | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com ""Ludicrous speed!! GO!!!!"" | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long -- Dark Helmet | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com ",4 "Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction I can not believe the way this thread on candida(yeast) has progressed. Steve Dyer and I have been exchanging words over the same topic in Sci. Med. Nutrition when he displayed his typical reserve and attacked a women poster for being treated by a liscenced physician for a disease that did not exist. Calling this physician a quack was reprehensible Steve and I see that you and some of the others are doing it here as well. Let me tell you who the quacks really are, these are the physicans who have no idea how the human body interacts with it's environment and how that balance can be altered by diet and antibiotics. These are the physicians who dismiss their patients with difficult symptomatology and make them go from doctor to doctor to find relief(like Elaine in Sci. Med. Nutrition) and then when they find one that solves their problem, the rest start yelling quack. Could it just be professional jealousy? I couldn't help Elaine or Jon but somebody else did. Could they know more than Me? No way, they must be a quack. I've been teaching a human nutrition course for Medical students for over ten years now and guess who the most receptive students are? Those that were raised on farms and saw first-hand the effect of diet on the health of their farm animals and those students who had made a dramatic diet change prior to entering medical school(switched to the vegan diet). Typically, this is about 1/3 of my class of 90 students. Those not interested in nutrition either tune me out or just stop coming to class. That's okay because I know that some of what I'm teaching is going to stick and there will be at least a few ""enlightened"" physicians practicing in the U.S. It's really too bad that most U.S. medical schools don't cover nutrition because if they did, candida would not be viewed as a non-disease by so many in the medical profession. In animal husbandry, an animal is reinnoculated with ""good"" bacteria after antibiotics are stopped. Medicine has decided that since humans do not have a ruminant stomach, no such reinnoculation with ""good"" bacteria is needed after coming off a braod spectrum antibiotic. Humans have all kinds of different organisms living in the GI system(mouth, stomach, small and large intestine), sinuses, vagina and on the skin. These are nonpathogenic because they do not cause disease in people unless the immune system is compromised. They are also called nonpathogens because unlike the pathogenic organisms that cause human disease, they do not produce toxins as they live out their merry existence in and on our body. But any of these organisms will be considered pathogenic if it manages to take up residence within the body. A poor mucus membrane barrier can let this happen and vitamin A is mainly responsible for setting up this barrier. Steve got real upset with Elaine's doctor because he was using anti-fungals and vitamin A for her GI problems. If Steve really understoood what vitamin A does in the body, he would not(or at least should not) be calling Elaine's doctor a quack. Here is a brief primer on yeast. Yeast infections, as they are commonly called, are not truely caused by yeasts. The most common organism responsible for this type of infection is Candida albicans or Monilia which is actually a yeast-like fungus. An infection caused by this organism is called candidiasis. Candidiasis is a very rare occurance because, like an E. Coli infection, it requires that the host immune system be severly depressed. Candida is frequently found on the skin and all of the mucous membranes of normal healthy people and it rarely becomes a problem unless some predisposing factor is present such as a high blood glucose level(diabetes) or an oral course of antibiotics has been used. In diabetics, their secretions contain much higher amounts of glucose. Candida, unlike bacteria, is very limited in it's food(fuel) selection. Without glucose, it can not grow, it just barely survives. If it gets access to a lot of glucose, it blooms and over rides the other organisms living with it in the sinuses, GI tract or vagina. In diabetics, skin lesions can also foster a good bloom site for these little buggers. The bloom is usually just a minor irritant in most people but some people do really develop a bad inflammatory process at the mucus membrane or skin bloom site. Whether this is an allergic like reaction to the candida or not isn't certain. When the bloom is in the vagina or on the skin, it can be easliy seen and some doctors do then try to ""treat"" it. If it's internal, only symptoms can be used and these symptoms are pretty nondiscript. Candida is kept in check in most people by the normal bacterial flora in the sinuses, the GI tract(mouth, stomach and intestines) and in the vaginal tract which compete with it for food. The human immune system ususally does not bother itself with these(nonpathogenic organisms) unless they broach the mucus membrane ""barrier"". If they do, an inflammatory response will be set up. Most Americans are not getting enough vitamin A from their diets. About 30% of all American's die with less Vitamin A than they were born with(U.S. autopsy studies). While this low level of vitamin A does not cause pathology(blindness) it does impair the mucus membrane barrier system. This would then be a predisposing factor for a strong inflammatory response after a candida bloom. While diabetics can suffer from a candida ""bloom"" the most common cause of this type of bloom is the use of broad spectrum antibiotics which knock down many different kinds of bacteria in the body and remove the main competition for candida as far as food is concerned. While drugs are available to handle candida, many patients find that their doctor will not use them unless there is evidence of a systemic infection. The toxicity of the anti-fungal drugs does warrant some caution. But if the GI or sinus inflammation is suspected to be candida(and recent use of a broad spectrum antibiotic is the smoking gun), then anti-fungal use should be approrpriate just as the anti-fungal creams are an appropriate treatment for recurring vaginal yeast infections, in spite of what Mr. Steve Dyer says. But even in patients being given the anti-fungals, the irritation caused by the excessive candida bloom in the sinus, GI tract or the vagina tends to return after drug treatment is discontinued unless the underlying cause of the problem is addressed(lack of a ""good"" bacterial flora in the body and/or poor mucus membrane barrier). Lactobacillus acidophilus is the most effective therapy for candida overgrowth. From it's name, it is an acid loving organism and it sets up an acidic condition were it grows. Candida can not grow very well in an acidic environment. In the vagina, L. acidophilius is the predominate bacteria(unless you are hit with broad spectrum antibiotics). In the GI system, the ano-rectal region seems to be a particularly good reservoir for candida and the use of pantyhose by many women creates a very favorable environment around the rectum for transfer(through moisture and humidity) of candida to the vaginal tract. One of the most effctive ways to minimmize this transfer is to wear undyed cotton underwear. If the bloom occurs in the anal area, the burning, swelling, pain and even blood discharge make many patients think that they have hemorroids. If the bloom manages to move further up the GI tract, very diffuse symptomatology occurs(abdominal discomfort and blood in the stool). This positive stool for occult blood is what sent Elaine to her family doctor in the first place. After extensive testing, he told her that there was nothing wrong but her gut still hurt. On to another doctor, and so on. Richard Kaplan has told me throiugh e-mail that he considers occult blood tests in stool specimens to be a waste of time and money because of the very large number of false positives(candida blooms guys?). If my gut hurt me on a constant basis, I would want it fixed. Yes it's nice to know that I don't have colon cancer but what then is causing my distress? When I finally find a doctor who treats me and gets me 90% better, Steve Dyer calls him a quack. Candida prefers a slightly alkaline environment while bacteria tend to prefer a slightly acidic environment. The vagina becomes alkaline during a woman's period and this is often when candida blooms in the vagina. Vinegar and water douches are the best way of dealing with vaginal problems. Many women have also gotten relief from the introduction of Lactobacillus directly into the vaginal tract(I would want to be sure of the purity of the product before trying this). My wife had this vagina problem after going on birth control pills and searched for over a year until she found a gynocologist who solved the problem rather than just writting scripts for anti-fungal creams. This was a woman gynocologist who had had the same problem(recurring vaginal yeast infections). This M.D. did some digging and came up with an acetic acid and L. Acidophilis douche which she used in your office to keep it sterile. After three treatments, sex returned to our marraige. I have often wondered what an M.D. with chronic GI distress or sinus problems would do about the problem that he tells his patients is a non-existent syndrome. The nonpathogenic bacteria L. acidophilus is an acid producing bacteria which is the most common bacteria found in the vaginal tract of healthy women. If taken orally, it can also become a major bacteria in the gut. Through aresol sprays, it has also been used to innoculate the sinus membranes. But before this innoculation occurs, the mucus membrane barrier system needs to be strengthened. This is accomplished by vitamin A, vitamin C and some of the B-complex vitamins. Diet surveys repeatedly show that Americans are not getting enough B6 and folate. These are probably the segement of the population that will have the greatest problem with this non-existent disorder(candida blooms after antibiotic therapy). Some of the above material was obtained from ""Natural Healing"" by Mark Bricklin, Published by Rodale press, as well as notes from my human nutrition course. I will be posting a discussion of vitamin A sometime in the future, along with reference citings to point out the extremely important role that vitamin A plays in the mucus membrane defense system in the body and why vitamin A should be effective in dealing with candida blooms. Another effective dietary treatment is to restrict carbohydrate intake during the treatment phase, this is especially important if the GI system is involved. If candida can not get glucose, it's not going to out grow the bacteria and you then give bacteria, which can use amino acids and fatty acids for energy, a chance to take over and keep the candida in check once carbohydrate is returned to the gut. If Steve and some of the other nay-sayers want to jump all over this post, fine. I jumped all over Steve in Sci. Med. Nutrition because he verbably accosted a poster who was seeking advice about her doctor's use of vitamin A and anti-fungals for a candida bloom in her gut. People seeking advice from newsnet should not be treated this way. Those of us giving of our time and knowledge can slug it out to our heart's content. If you saved your venom for me Steve and left the helpless posters who are timidly seeking help alone, I wouldn't have a problem with your behavior. Martin Banschbach, Ph.D. Professor of Biochemistry and Chairman Department of Biochemistry and Microbiology OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine 1111 West 17th St. Tulsa, Ok. 74107 ""Without discourse, there is no remembering, without remembering, there is no learning, without learning, there is only ignorance"". ",13 "FCUS/HEALTH: How U.S. compares.. From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) Subject: FCUS/HEALTH: How U.S. compares... Children/Elderly in Poverty FCUS/HEALTH: How U.S. compares... Children/Elderly in Poverty ================================================================== Percentage of children and elderly living in poverty 1984-1987:(3) ================================================================== ================================================= CHILDREN ELDERLY COUNTRY IN POVERTY IN POVERTY ================================================= United States 20.4 10.9 Canada 9.3 2.2 Australia 9.0 4.0 United Kingdom 7.4 5.2 France 4.6 4.5 Netherlands 3.8 3.4 Germany 2.8 2.8 Sweden 1.6 4.3 Source: Timothy M. Smeeding, ""U.S. Poverty and Income Security Policy in a Cross National Perspective, October 1991, Luxembourg, October, 1991, Luxembourg Income Study, working paper 70. ****************************************************************** ===================================== Of the 19 Western Industrial Nations: ===================================== Western Industrial Countries having a National Health Insurance plan providing universal coverage: Australia YES Sweden YES Canada YES United Kingdom YES Denmark YES Austria YES Finland YES France YES Ireland YES Switzerland YES Italy YES Spain YES Japan YES Belgium YES New Zealand YES Germany YES Netherlands YES Norway YES - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Western Industrial Countries NOT having a National Health Insurance plan providing universal coverage. United States NO - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ****************************************************************** From page 74 of: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - _We're Number One, Where America Stands -- and Falls -- in the New World Order_ by Andrew L Shapiro. New York, May 1992, Vintage Books, a division of Random House. $10 paperback. ISBN 0-679-73893-2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [Transcribed by jhwoodar@well.sf.ca.us (Joe Woodard)] ``America is becoming a land of private greed and public squalor. This book is an indispensable road map through the wreckage. The facts it reveals will startle you. They may depress you. But ideally they'll fire you up to help rebuild this nation.'' -Robert B. Reich, author of The Work of Nations ",18 "Dynamic changing of the title bar I am looking for a program I can insert into some code that will allow the title bar to be changed on a window dynamicly. If one already is out there, I would appreciate a location so I don't have to create this from scratch. Thanks in advance. Bob Hosid:dloslv300:xerox ",5 "Re: HELP: Need 24 bits viewer In article <1993Apr29.041601.8884@labtam.labtam.oz.au> graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.a u (Graeme Gill) writes: >In article <5713@seti.inria.fr>, deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud) writ es: >> Hi, >> >> I'm looking for a program which is able to display 24 bits >> images. We are using a Sun Sparc equipped with Parallax >> graphics board running X11. > > xli, xloadimage or ImageMagick - export.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.0.12] /contrib > xv 3.0 (shareware) supports 24-bit displays, and has lots of other improvements over earlier versions. Definitely worth checking out (also at export) Jean. -- Jean Liddle Computer Science, Illinois State University e-mail: jliddle@ilstu.edu -------------------------------------------- ",1 "Is it really apples to apples? (Lawful vs. unlawful use of guns) I have been convinced of the right of AMericans to an effective self-defense, but something strikes me as odd among the pro-RKBA arguments presented here. The numbers comparing hundreds of thousands (indeed, even a million) of instances of law abiding citizens deterring criminal activity, seem valid to me. Likewise the number of gun-caused homicides each year (about 11,000/year?). However, it is surprising that the ""Evil AntiGun Empire "" (Darth Vader breathing sound effect here) never tries to compare ""All legitimate gun defenses"" vs. ""All gun crimes."" Instead, it's always ""All legitimate gun defenses,"" which includes cases in which the criminals are shot but not killed, and cases in which the criminal is not here, vs. just criminal gun homicides, which only includes case sin which the victim died. Why is this? Of course, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that in each crime already measured (involving guns), the consequnces are already known and it is safe to assume that a gun-based bank robbery last week will not suddenly turn into a gun-basd robbery+homicide. Whereas in the legitimate gun defenses, one may assume that all those criminals who were deterred would have committed more crime or more serious crimes had they not been deterred. -Case Kim kim39@husc.harvard.edu ",16 "Re: uh, der, whassa deltabox? >Can someone tell me what a deltabox frame is, and what relation that has, >if any, to the frame on my Hawk GT? That way, next time some guy comes up >to me in some parking lot and sez ""hey, dude, nice bike, is that a deltabox >frame on there?"" I can say something besides ""duh, er, huh?"" The Yammie Deltabox and the Hawk frame are conceptually similar but Yammie has a TM on the name. The Hawk is a purer 'twin spar' frame design: investment castings at steering head and swing arm tied together with aluminum extruded beams. The Yammie solution is a bit more complex. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Godfrey DiGiorgi - ramarren@apple.com | DoD #0493 AMA#489408 Rule #1: Never sell a Ducati. | ""The street finds its own Rule #2: Always obey Rule #1. | uses for things."" -WG ------ Ducati Cinelli Toyota Krups Nikon Sony Apple Telebit ------ ",8 "pc-junior usable? My fiance has a pc-junior and wants to upgrade to a full 386. Does anyone know if we could use the monitor it came with on a new machine? I heard it's MCGA or EGA, but not sure which. Also, does it use cards, so we can use the drive controller, floppy, etc? Thanks for the help! -Bryan -- Bryan Welch Amateur Radio: N0SFG Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Disclaimer: It's all opinion. Everything. So there. ",3 "Re: Dirty Diesels? Yeah, but I hate to follow them with the exhaust at ground level. Not all diesels are well maintained, either, it seems they run for so long that people keep them going long after the top end is worn out. ",7 "PCTools for Windows demo If someone has downloaded the PCTools demo from Compuserve, please upload it to CICA or other FTP site. Thanks, Dean ST1PB@Elroy.uh.edu ",2 "Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ] bets@chester.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes: >>This has me thinking. Is there a biological reason why women can't put >>their keys in their pants pockets like men do? I have two pockets on the >>back of each of my pants. I put my keys in one and wallent in another. >>Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely. >>Everything is that much simpler for me. Why can't women do the same? >>Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and >>a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? >I've found that it has to do with the way women's clothes are made. >If you put keys in the front pocket of women's jeans or slacks, you >get a bulge that also tends to make it impossible to sit down because >they stick you constantly. ditto in the back pocket. >Also, try *looking* at the back pockets of women's jeans and compare >them to the back pockets on men's jeans. They are usually (if you buy >jeans that you expect to last for any length of time) about half the >size. There flat out isn't *room* for a wallet or a bunch of keys. >Besides which, where would men put all their crap if their wives >didn't carry purses? :-) The same place single men do, wallet in back pocket, comb in other back pocket, keys in front pocket, knive in other from pocket, pen in shirt pocket, or front pants pocket. Or do married men start carrying around a bunch of stuff to keep there women happy? >Beth Mark B. ",7 "Re: The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Costly and Dangerous Mistake In article <1r3n8d$4m5@techbook.techbook.com> dgannon@techbook.techbook.com (Dan Gannon) writes: > > THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE > > by Theodore J. O'Keefe > >HARD BY THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT, within clear view of the Jefferson >Memorial, an easy stroll down the Mall to the majestic Lincoln Memorial, >has arisen, on some of the most hallowed territory of the United States of >America, a costly and dangerous mistake. On ground where no monument yet >marks countless sacrifices and unheralded achievements of Americans of all >races and creeds in the building and defense of this nation, sits today a >massive and costly edifice, devoted above all to a contentious and false >version of the ordeal in Europe during World War II, of non-American >members of a minority, sectarian group. Now, in the deceptive guise of >tolerance, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum begins a propaganda >campaign, financed through the unwitting largess of the American taxpayer, >in the interests of Israel and its adherents in America. After reading the first paragraph, a quick scan confirmed my first impression: this is a bunch of revisionist and anti-semitic hogwash. The NY Times reported on April 18, 1993 that the museum ""was built through private contributions on Federal land"". Your hate-mongering article is devoid of current and historical fact, intellectual content and social value. Down the toilet it goes..... -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "HE JUST DOESN'T GET IT (Re: will they ever learn?) In article , techie@cellar.org (William A Bacon) writes : >They Refuse To Learn From History Or From the Present >Pointing to Canada's vaunted socialized medical care program, he >contends that ""it is failing even while the cost is catching up with >angry taxpayers."" He notes: ""Americans don't go to Canada and >elsewhere for medical care; it's the Canadians and others who come >here. Why should the United States duplicate what doesn't work well >in other countries? We have the world's best medical care; let's not >mess it up with Hillary Clinton's plans for socialized medicine."" > > >John F. McManus, National President of the John Birch Society > When McManus says, ""We have the world's best medical care,"" I can hardly believe he's referring to a system: 1. That costs us 14 percent of our GDP, while there isn't a single other country in the industrialized world that spends more than 10 percent. 2. That leaves 37 million of us with no coverage, even though all the other systems in the industrialized world cover virtually everyone. 3. Yet, Americans rank near the bottom of the list in terms of life expectancy, childhood immunization rate, infant mortality, and many preventable diseases. 4. We pay, on average, about $1000 each for MRIs. (To put that in perspective, they cost $177 in Japan.) 5. The average US company spends over 2500 dollars a year per employee on health benefits. Seven hundred to 1500 is the range just about everywhere else. How can anyone say that such a system is the best in the world? The only thing the USA health care system is good at is showering well-insured patients with a champagne treatment of care and outrageously overcharging for it. And the ""private"" system of insurers and paperwork is so bloated and inefficient that it itself sucks up over 100 billion dollars a year in money from every other sector of society - individuals, government, and industry. Of the < 800 billion dollars Americans threw into the bottomless pit of health care costs last year, the Consumer's Union estimated that at least 200 billion was thrown away on overpriced, useless, and even downright harmful tests and procedures, and the most bureaucratic, regulated insurance system in the world. There are more than 1200 different private insurers in the USA. But did the ""private competition"" stimulate more efficient paperwork? Ask any doctor who's had to hire a full-time clerk to deal with it all! The competition among hospitals is driving costs UP, not down. The competition among hospitals for both doctors and patients has encouraged the hospitals to traffic in expensive superfluous equipment. Spending millions on expensive machines of dubious value that spend 80 percent of the day idle isn't my idea of the world's best health care system. Competition among specialists is driving them to perform dangerous and expensive procedures where they are very marginally helpful. I'm especially thinking of heart surgery and some women's surgeries like hysterectomy and Cesarean section. Sound like the world's best health care system? Ever notice how, every time someone tries to bring about some real change in health care, the Libbies start bashing Canada's system? First of all, Hillary Clinton is not advocating another Canadian system. I think that's been made abundantly clear in the news for the last couple of months. Where did John F. McManus get that idea, anyway? Let's say you're a Canadian living in a small town near the USA border. Your child needs a complicated procedure only available in city hospitals. The nearest Canadian cities are 6 hours west and 20 hours east, and there's an American city one hour south. Which way are you going to go? Is it because the American system is the ""best"" in the world, or just for convenience? It still amazes me that people can't seem to see more than just black and white on health care reform. There are a million different ways we ould restructure the system. It's not just a choice between total government control and total private control. I wish the people screaming ""socialized medicine"" every time soemone wants to change the current syste would INFORM THEMSELVES on health care issues. The current system sucks. I want to keep providers private but that doesn't change the fact that we will never be able to deal with the deficit if we don't REFORM THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. Purely private health care without any government intervention doesn't work. Hillary Clinton is not thinking of nationalizing providers or evern insurers. How can you scream ""socialized medicine"" at her programs? Don't you even know what you're talking about? Ever see Clinton's graphs of projected deficit versus year for the rest of the decade? Notice how the line falls, then starts increasing? Why? I'll give you one wild guess as to which component of spending will overwhelm us if we don't do something about it. PEOPE JUST DOESN'T GET IT. The current health care system is a cancer which is killing our economic well-being. Costs are still rising 10 percent a year even as Americans by the tens of millions go without, or are forced into managed-care programs, which are certainly pretty socialized already if you ask me. A couple of months ago I posted a message asking any Hillary-bashers to please come forward and present (no gimmicks, straight talk) just how THEY would set about keeping costs down. I didn't get a single answer. The only thing I keep hearing from Libbie organizations are press releases filled with evasive platitudes like ""give health care back to the people."" Just do you expect to do that without serious reforms? What is it about the current system that you would change and how would that help? How can anyone read the news, live under our system, and NOT see these faults? How can we deal with the deficit, our cities, our educational system, our infrastrucure, AIDS, modernizing our industry, etc. if we don't quit throwing away money which could be used to SOLVE those problems? America needs health care reform NOW. Don't just sit there and Hillary-bash, inform yourself! Jim Reynolds -- James P. Reynolds (that's Jim to you and me.) jpr1@lehigh.edu ",18 "FAQ for this group Could some kind soul point me in the right direction for the FAQ list for this group. Thanks. -------------------- Saad Mufti Personal Library Software e-mail : mufti@pls.com ",5 "Re: IDE vs SCSI From article <1qq7i1INNdqc@dns1.NMSU.Edu>, by bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB): > wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) write: > >>In article <1qpu0uINNbt1@dns1.NMSU.Edu> bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes: >>>wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes: >>>Since the Mac uses ONLY SCSI-1 for hard drives YES the ""figure includes a >>>hundred $$$ for SCSI drivers"" This is sloppy people and DUMB. >>What group is this? This is not a MAC group. > Nice of you to DELETE BOTH YOUR responce and the item that prompted it. > to whit: >>>I just bought at Quantum 240 for my mac at home. I paid $369 for it. I > ^^^ [Tons of stuff deleted on SCSI vs. IDE question...] Wow, you guys are really going wild on this IDE vs. SCSI thing, and I think it's great! Like lots of people, I'd really like to increase my data transfer rate from the hard drive. Right now I have a 15ms 210Mb IDE drive (Seagate 1239A), and what I would say is a standard (not special, no cache I believe) IDE controller card on my ISA 486-50. I'm currently thinking about adding another HD, in the 300Mb to 500Mb range. And I'm thinking hard (you should hear those gears a-grinding in my head) about buying a SCSI drive (SCSI for the future benefit). I believe I'm getting something like 890Kb/sec transfer right now (according to NU). How would this number compare if I bought the state-of-the-art SCSI card for my ISA PC, and the state-of-the-art SCSI hard drive (the wailing-est system I could hope for)? Obviously money factors into this choice as well as any other, but what would YOU want to use on your ISA system? And how much would it cost? Along those lines, what kind of transfer rate could I see with my IDE HD's if I were to buy the top-of-the-line IDE caching controller for my 200Mb, 15ms HD? And how much would it cost? I actually have a PAS-16, and could (what a waste I guess it would be...) hook up a SCSI HD through it's SCSI port which yields an optimum of 690Kb/sec. Actually, I have a borrowed 12ms Fujitsu HD hooked up through it now (and own the Trantor HD drivers for the PAS-16 SCSI port). Is this SCSI port a SCSI-2 port? How could I tell? Is the Fujitsu 2623A a SCSI-2? Are all SCSI HD's SCSI-2? Thanks for any comments on these rephrased questions. Randy ",3 "Re: Ok, So I was a little hasty... In article speedy@engr.latech.edu (Speedy Mercer) writes: | |This was changed here in Louisiana when a girl went to court and won her |case by claiming to be stoned on pot, NOT intoxicated on liquor! Geez, what happened? She got a ticket for driving too slow??? | ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====---- Oh, are you saying you're not an edu.breath, then? Okay. Dave Svoboda (svoboda@void.rtsg.mot.com) | ""I'm getting tired of 90 Concours 1000 (Mmmmmmmmmm!) | beating you up, Dave. 84 RZ 350 (Ring Ding) (Woops!) | You never learn."" AMA 583905 DoD #0330 COG 939 (Chicago) | -- Beth ""Bruiser"" Dixon ",8 "Re: Can I use a CD4052 analog multiplexer for digital signal > As the subject says - Can I use a 4052 for digital signals? I don't see > why it couldn't handle digital signals, but I could be wrong. Anyone have > any advice? Thanks. Yes. I use 74HC4066 and others commerically for this purpose so rest assured it works fine. In one case I route bit serial digital audio using these and it is difficult to see any signal degradation at all which surprised me given some pretty fast edges. HC4066 is spec'd at something like -3dB @ 200MHz into 50 ohms. The more complex types are generally a little slower and more resistive. Plain 4000 series are not so good at handling 5v logic. Remember that the output load is seen by the input device. TC. E-mail: tchannon@black.demon.co.uk or tchannon@cix.compulink.co.uk ",12 "Jeep Laredo experiences I have been looking at buying a 1989 Jeep Laredo and was wondering if anyone had any bad or good experiences with this model. Is it all that much different than the other YJs? It looks, feels and sounds like a nice vehicle even thought the price is rather steep for an '89 (12K Canadian). -- don@bnr.ca ",7 "Re: pb100 memory upgrade jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (george) writes: >does the pb100 use different memory than the newer models? >I am looking to buy a 2Mb upgrade, so I need to know >which other powerbooks use the same 2Mb card. I think all Powerbooks use the same 2 Meg upgrade, but the 4 Meg and 6 Meg upgrades are different for the PB100 than for the other PBs. ----- Eric Smith erics@netcom.com erics@infoserv.com CI$: 70262,3610 ",4 "Re: Acceleration sensor? In article <1993Apr27.145201.15495@walter.bellcore.com> deaddio@ski.bellcore.com (Michael DeAddio) writes: >Does anyone know of any type of acceleration sensor that has >an electrical output of any sort? It would only have to sense >acceleration in one direction. Gee, how about an (ahem) ""accelerometer""! Such devices are available from a variety of sources (one that comes to mind is Bruel & Kjaer if you have a lot of money to spend). MOst of these sorts of devices output a voltage proportional to acceleration. You need to know what range you're talking about though. -- | Dick Pierce | | Loudspeaker and Software Consulting | | 17 Sartelle Street Pepperell, MA 01463 | | (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX) | ",12 "Re: Satellite around Pluto Mission? In article <1993Apr30.004311.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >Is there a plan to put a satellite around each planet in the solar system to >keep watch? ... There would be some point to doing long-term monitoring of things like particles and fields, not to mention atmospheric phenomena. However, there is no particular plan to establish any sort of monitoring network. To be precise, there is no particular plan, period. This is a large part of the problem. In this context, it's not surprising that unexciting but useful missions like this get short shrift at budget time. The closest approach to any sort of long-term planetary monitoring mission is the occasional chance to piggyback something like this on top of a flashier mission like Galileo or Cassini. >How about a mission (unmanned) to Pluto to stay in orbit and record things >around and near and on Pluto... It is most unlikely that there is much happening on Pluto that would be worth monitoring, and it is a prohibitively difficult mission to fly without new propulsion technology (something the planetary community has firmly resisted being the guinea pigs for). The combined need to arrive at Pluto within a reasonable amount of time, and then kill nearly all of the cruise velocity to settle into an orbit, is beyond what can reasonably be done with current (that is, 1950s-vintage) propulsion. >It could do some scanning of not only Pluto, but also of the solar system, >objects near and aaroundpluto, as well as SETI and looking at the galaxy >without having much of the solar system to worry about.. Most of this can be done just about as well from Earth. The few things that can't be, can be done better from a Voyager-like spacecraft that is *not* constrained by the need to enter orbit around a planet. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Re: Death and Taxes (was Why not give $1 billion to... In article <1993Apr22.162501.747@indyvax.iupui.edu>, tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: > In my first posting on this subject I threw out an idea of how to fund > such a contest without delving to deep into the budget. I mentioned > granting mineral rights to the winner (my actual wording was, ""mining > rights.) Somebody pointed out, quite correctly, that such rights are > not anybody's to grant (although I imagine it would be a fait accompli > situation for the winner.) So how about this? Give the winning group > (I can't see one company or corp doing it) a 10, 20, or 50 year > moratorium on taxes. > > Tom Freebairn Who says there is no mineral rights to be given? Who says? The UN or the US Government? Major question is if you decide to mine the moon or Mars, who will stop you? The UN can't other than legal tom foolerie.. Can the truly inforce it? If you go to the moon as declare that you are now a soverign nation, who will stop you from doing it. Maybe not acknowledge you? Why can't a small company or corp or organization go an explore the great beyond of space? what right does earth have to say what is legal and what is not.. Maybe I am a few years ahead on this.. It is liek the old Catholic Church stating which was Portugals and what was Spains, and along came the Reformation and made it all null and void.. What can happen is to find a nation which is acknowledged, and offer your services as a space miner and then go mine the asteroids/mars/moon or what ever.. As long as yur sponsor does not get in trouble.. Basically find a country who wants to go into space, but can't for soem reason or another, but who will give you a ""home"".. Such as Saudia Arabia or whatever.. There are nations in the World who are not part of the UN, got to them and offer your services and such.. I know that sound crazy, but. is it.. Also once you have the means to mine the moon (or whatever) then just do it. The UN if done right can be made to be so busy with something else, they will not care.. If your worried about the US, do the same thing.. Why be limited by the short sighted people of earth.. After all they have many other things to worry about that if someone is mining the Moon or MArs or what ever.. Basically what I am saying is where is that drive of yeasteryears to go a little bit farther out, to do jus ta little bit more, and to tell the crown to piss off.. If my ancestors thought the way many today think, Id have been born in Central Europe just north of the Black Sea.. I just read a good book, ""Tower of the Gods"" Interesting.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ",14 "Need X Win PopUp Menu package Rather than write my own, can anyone direct me to a package that will let me create cascaded popup menus in X windows. For reasons of portability, the package should not rely on any X toolkit other than XLib and the XT Intrinsics. Something written in C++ would be nice, too. Thanks ",5 "Re: What do Nuclear Site's Cooling Towers do? In article <1qngqlINNnp8@shelley.u.washington.edu>, whit@carson.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) writes: > In article johne@vcd.hp.com (John Eaton) writes: >>-s87271077-s.walker-man-50- (swalker@uts.EDU.AU) wrote: > >>During the nuclear fission reaction the uranium fuel can get hot enough >>to melt. When this happens the liquid uranium is pumped to the cooling >>tower where it is sprayed into the air. ... >>Contact with the cool outside air >>will condense the mist and it will fall back to the cooling tower floor. >>There it is collected by a cleaning crew using shop vacs and is then >>reformed into pellets for reactor use the next day. Another April 1 posting. Ahhh. ================================================================================ [ Mark E. Levy, Fermilab | ] [ BitNet: LEVY@FNAL | Unix is to computing ] [ Internet: LEVY@FNALD.FNAL.GOV | as an Etch-a-Sketch is to art. ] [ HEPnet/SPAN: FNALD::LEVY (VMS!) | ] ================================================================================ ",12 "Re: moon image in weather sat image If you brighten up the dark part of CV043015.GIF with your viewer you will see two other objects near the upper left part of the moon. One is actually between the weather satellite and the moon. Bill O'Shaughnessy ",14 "Re: Update (Help!) [was ""What is This [Is it Lyme's?]""] In article <1993Mar29.181958.3224@equator.com> jod@equator.com (John Setel O'Donnell) writes: > >I shouldn't have to be posting here. Physicians should know the Lyme >literature beyond Steere & co's denial merry-go-round. Patients >should get correctly diagnosed and treated. > Why do you think Steere is doing this? Isn't he acting in good faith? After all, as the ""discoverer"" of Lyme for all intents and purposes, the more famous Lyme gets, the more famous Steere gets. I don't see the ulterior motive here. It is easy for me to see it the those physicians who call everything lyme and treat everything. There is a lot of money involved. >I'm a computer engineer, not a doctor (,Jim). I was building a >computer manufacturing company when I got Lyme. I lost several >years of my life to near-total disability; partially as a result, >the company failed, taking with it over 150 jobs, my savings, >and everything I'd worked for for years. I'm one of the ""lucky"" >ones in that I found a physician through the Lyme foundation >and now can work almost full-time, although I have persistent >infection and still suffer a variety of sypmtoms. And now >I try to follow the Lyme literature. > Well, it is tragic what has happened to you, but it doesn't necessarily make you the most objective source of information about it. If your whole life is focussed around this, you may be too emotionally involved to be advising other people who may or may not have Lyme. Certainly advocacy of more research on Lyme would not be out of order, though, and people like you can be very effective there. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Tieing Abortion to Health Reform -- Is Clinton Nuts? In <1993Apr1.205612.21234@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes: >Why should anyone be forced to pay for someone else's abortion, >when in the vast majority of instances, the need for abortion is >easily preventable? Who is forcing these couples to have sexual >intercourse? This, of course, is an argument against any health care not explicitly paid for with personal funds. But you knew that. >Doug Holtsinger -rocker ",18 "Re: Overreacting (was Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more) In <4fplPDH0BwwbEDweNJ@transarc.com> Lyle_Seaman@transarc.com writes: >Look, we (collectively) have the power to throw the bums out, but we >don't use it. We clearly don't need to go burning things down, but we >clearly do need to throw at least some of the bums out. >Unfortunately, the bums have learned to target only small groups of >people at a single time, so the masses won't react and throw them out. >Eventually, the masses will react, unless the bums cease their >relentless encroachment on liberty and despoilment of the economy. >The sooner it happens, the less the damages will be. I don't want to >live in a war zone, either -- I want to see the bums thrown out before >they do some *real* damage. Before they do some real damage?? You haven't been paying attention, it seems. The so-called War on Drugs has already done major damage to the US Constitution. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@bix.com For to win 100 victories in 100 The Denim Adept hshubs@cis.umassd.edu battles is not the acme of skill. ",11 "Re: Real Time Graphics?? In article <1993Apr5.114428.2061@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>, dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil writes: > In article , stockel@oahu.oc.nps.navy.mil (Jim Stockel) writes: >> Hi, >> >> Opps! typed in the phone numbers wrong. Here are the correct numbers. > > For a commerical package try WAVE from Precision Visuals 303-530-9000 > > For a free package try KHOROS from University of New Mexico 505-277-6563 > ftp from > ptrg.eece.unm.edu > > Login in anonyomus or ftp with a valid email address as the password > cd /pub/khoros/release ",1 "W32/TSENG card & other VLB cards... (please) Hai, In a few days I'm going to buy a new motherboard with local-bus(ses). It comes with a Cirrus Logic VLB card which has 2Mb RAM onboard. It can do true-color but I don't know what type of card it is. I read that Cirrus Logic cards aren't exactly the fastes around. My old system had a TSENG 4000. I was pretty pleased with it, so I consider buying a W32/TSENG card. I'd like to know a few things: - How is the speed/performance in DOS/Windows/Unix/OS/2 Graphics & Text (also compared to S3 cards for example) - What resolutions (including no. of colors) does it support (text & graphics) - How many RAM can be installed and what type of RAM - Compatibility with old TSENG 4000 - Support in software If anyone has any experience with this card (good or bad) I'd like to know. If you have a better alternative than the W32 please tell me about it. For the people in Holland: Kan iemand me misschien vertellen waar de W32 in Nederland te verkrijg is? Het liefst in de omgeving van Amsterdam! Thanks in advance, Erik Stel (estel@cs.vu.nl) ",3 "Okidata 2410 printer driver I have an Okidata 2410 printer for which I would like to have a printer driver. Has anyone seen such a thing? There is not one on the Microsoft BBS. I can print to it from Windows but I have no fonts available and with Paradox for Windows I can't print labels on it unless there is a proper printer defined. Thanks, Bryan K. Ward Survey Research Center University of Utah i-mail: bryan@src.sbs.utah.edu ",2 "multiple inputs for PC Can anyone offer a suggestion on a problem I am having? I have several boards whose sole purpose is to decode DTMF tones and send the resultant in ASCII to a PC. These boards run on the serial interface. I need to run * of the boards somwehat simultaneously. I need to be able to ho ok them up to a PC> The problem is, how do I hook up 8+ serial devices to one PC inexpensivley, so that all can send data simulataneously (or close to it)? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Abhin Singla ",12 "Re: Jews can't hide from keith@cco. In article <1pqdor$9s2@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: >In article <1993Apr3.071823.13253@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes: >The poster casually trashed two thousand years of Jewish history, and >Ken replied that there had previously been people like him in Germany. I think the problem here is that I pretty much ignored the part about the Jews sightseeing for 2000 years, thinking instead that the important part of what the original poster said was the bit about killing Palestinians. In retrospect, I can see how the sightseeing thing would be offensive to many. I originally saw it just as poetic license, but it's understandable that others might see it differently. I still think that Ken came on a bit strong though. I also think that your advice to Masud Khan: #Before you argue with someone like Mr Arromdee, it's a good idea to #do a little homework, or at least think. was unnecessary. >That's right. There have been. There have also been people who >were formally Nazis. But the Nazi party would have gone nowhere >without the active and tacit support of the ordinary man in the >street who behaved as though casual anti-semitism was perfectly >acceptable. > >Now what exactly don't you understand about what I wrote, and why >don't you see what it has to do with the matter at hand? Throughout all your articles in this thread there is the tacit assumption that the original poster was exhibiting casual anti-semitism. If I agreed with that, then maybe your speech on why this is bad might have been relevant. But I think you're reading a lot into one flip sentence. While probably not true in this case, too often the charge of anti-semitism gets thrown around in order to stifle legitimate criticism of the state of Israel. Anyway, I'd rather be somewhere else, so I'm outta this thread. -- Doug Graham dgraham@bnr.ca My opinions are my own. ",0 "Re: 8051 Microcontroller In article <1qppr5INNaqa@dns1.NMSU.Edu> mcole@spock (COLE) writes: >I would like to experiment with the INTEL 8051 family. Does anyone out >there know of any good FTP sites that might have compiliers, assemblers, >etc.? Well, it's not an FTP site, but I got an 800 number for Signetics BBS. The Signetics BBS contain some pretty good items for the 8051. I am currently using the following files which I downloaded from them: ml-asm51.zip MetaLink's 8051 family macro assembler bootstrp.zip Hex file Load-and-Go using 8051 uart (allows you to download your program into a RAM and then execute from RAM. Works great. Tell me if you want more details). tutor51.zip TSR for 8051 feature help screens They have lots of coding examples, assemblers, and misc. tools. Signetics BBS numbers are: (800) 451-6644 (408) 991-2406 Have fun, -- Mont Pierce +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ham Call: KM6WT Internet: mont@netcom.com | | bands: 80/40/20/15/10/2 IBM vnet: mont@vnet.ibm.com | | modes: cw,ssb,fm | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",12 "Players Rushed to Majors snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes: >Can anybody name a player who was 'rushed' to the majors (let's, for >argument's sake, define ""rushed"" as brought up to the majors for more than >a cup of coffee prior at age 22 or younger, and performing below >expectations), whose career was damaged by this rushing? I tend to agree that players are not hurt by early play in the big leagues. The BRaves organization is a fertile ground to test this hypothesis, as they had little talent on their roster for some time. Steve Avery, for example, was rushed to the majors, and he fared very poorly during his initial campaign. His subsequent pitching has not been affected by his 5+ ERA during his rookie year. Bill James pointed out that it was relatively unusual to struggle so and then rebound. Bob Horner was also rushed to the majors (out of Arizona State directly) had good numbers immediately. I am not certain of the ages of people like Pete Smith, Craig McMurty, and Derek Lilliquist. The Braves pitching staffs were so bad when they came up that they might have been rushed. Lilliquist and Smith struggled, but it didn't hurt PS and DL may have been overhyped. I seem to recall CM pitching well initially, though I don't have stats handy. Douglas Bone Internet: bone@luciano.stanford.edu Standard disclaimers BITNET: bone%luciano.stanford.edu@stanford apply. UUCP: ..ucbvax!luciano!sierra.stanford.edu!bone ",9 "Re: ""43 to 1"" all over again. In article <1993Apr21.175441.22582@iitmax.iit.edu> draughn@iitmax.iit.edu (Mark Draughn) writes: >[Followups to talk.politics.guns only.] > >In article <1qv87v$4j3@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares >writes: >>In article , jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John >>Lawrence Rutledge) writes: >> >So, a person who keeps a gun at home is 43 times more likely to die, >at home, from a gunshot than he or she is likely to kill an intruder. > >Sounds like apples 'n' oranges to me. > >In any case, has anybody tried to make the obvious counter-study? > >What are the numbers for someone who does not keep a gun at home? >That is, what is the ratio of dying-at-home-from-a-gunshot to >killing-an-intruder, for people who do NOT keep guns in their homes? > >So, what are is the ratio of unarmed people shot to death in their >homes v.s. unarmed people who kill intruders? Is it worse than 6 to 1? > >Inquiring minds want to know. I don't know this specific ratio, but I do have an earlier post that says a gun is 33 times more likely to defend someone (including the times where the gun isn't fired, just scares the perpetrator away) than it is to kill someone. (including self defense) The post is kind of long, but I'll be glad to dig it up and email it to anyone who asks. Doug Holland -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Doug Holland | Anyone who tries to take away my freedom | | holland@cs.colostate.edu | of speech will have to pry it from my | | PGP key available by E-mail | cold, dead lips!! | ",16 "Re: File Manager problem In a previous article, mrw54660@eng-nxt01.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R Whitchurch) says: >Whenever I start File Manager, the status bar is not displayed, >even though it is selected in the options menu. If I deselect it, >then select it again, the bar appears. Anyone have any ideas why >this is happening? No, not really. It may be that your winfile.ini has gotten corrupted for some unknown reason. Have you tried re-creating it by either 1.exiting filemanager with the save setting option on when the status bar is visible, or 2.double clicking on the Control menu(the one with minimize and maximize in in) when everything looks proper? If you have, and it still doesn't work, you may want to delete your winfile.ini and try one of these two saving procedures again to totally recreate the file from scratch. Good luck! Mark Waschkowski -- ",2 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qm36b$gn2@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article <1qktj3$bn9@squick.eitech.com> ekr@squick.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: >#In article <1qkn1t$59l@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >#> If one follows relativism to the letter, then, the theories >#>and predictions which are the results of science can only be subjectively >#>valued as 'objective', 'correct', or anything else. >#Twaddle. You're overloading the meaning of the word ""value"", >#that's all. Whether I care if the results are true is a ""value"". >#I fail to see how whether they are true (correct, whatever) is >#a value. >The result's actual truth is independent of what you think of it, if you >care to look at it that way - however your perception of a result's >truth cannot match its actual truth, unless you care to follow the (a?) >procedure to obtain truth (""science"") correctly. Not true. Consider the case of a coin. I flip it and do not look at it. It is either heads or tails. It is entirely possible for me to simply choose to believe that it is heads or tails and be right. Now, there is a procedure for ensuring(more or less) that my belief will be correct, but it is quite possible for me to be correct without following it. > You have to pick >the right procedure, and note its importance. You've got to value it. No, I don't. I can do perfectly good science without valuing the procedure. But you're just overloading the term ""value"" again. Judgement of the validity of a procedure is not the same as judgement of how preferable a certain action is, and just because the word ""value"" can be applied to both doesn't make it so. You might as well assert that ""number theory is based on values."" >Otherwise you don't care about actual truth, and shouldn't object >to the statement ""objectivism is true"". Huh? This is a complete non sequiter. >Now if we're valuing procedures subjectively, and science is a procedure, >science cannot be valued non-subjectively. You're just overloading the word value, AGAIN, I suspect. > If we're picking facts >and hypotheses subjectively, then we are using a maybe-not-quite-sure >method on maybe-not-quite-sure observations. That should lead >to maybe-not-quite-sure results, no? The fact that it does not seem >to might make one question the premise, which is that our subjective >valuations are necessarily unreliable. I don't understand your point here. What do you mean by ""not quite-sure observations?"" It gets observed all the time that if you don't buy into a whole series of assumptions about how science is done, the results become meaningless. If you're suggesting that because science is allegedly chosen 'subjectively' the results have to be inconsistent, that's silly. >#Like I said before, DES works whether I value my privacy or >#not. >O.K., which DES? The abstract function DES? that stops working in any >important sense if no-one cares for the importance of truth, mathematics, >meaning, information, etc. A DES chip or DES s/w? That stops working in any >important sense if no-one values science, objective reality, etc. DES >does not work in a value vacuum. Nothing else does, either. This is just truth by blatant assertion. Your ""in any important sense"" seem to be just weasel words. Imagine that I have a box which accepts 16 bytes and uses the first 8 to ECB the second 8. It still does a perfect job of DESing, whether or not any input is being made at the time--whether or not anyone values mathematics.. -Ekr -- Eric Rescorla ekr@eitech.com Would you buy used code from this man? ",0 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In <1rdlsf$vi@agate.berkeley.edu> isaackuo@skippy.berkeley.edu (Isaac Kuo) writes: |I merely point out that it IS a valid strategy which is used every day. |Furthermore, we don't know of any substitute strategy capable of apprehending |potentially dangerous and armed suspects. Do you suggest that the police |always knock with guns holstered and never arrest any suspects until they have |been allowed to inspect the officers's badges? Just what should the police do |when apprehending potentially dangerous and armed suspects? How far can they |reasonably go to identiy themselves? What do you suggest they can do which |can't be faked by the ""competition""? So instead you are asking individual citizens to place themselves at risk by assuming that everyone who claims to be a cop, actually is a cop. Around here the police have actually made public service announcements saying that if you are a lady driving by yourself at night and you see blue lights flashing behind you. Do not pull over until you reach a well lit, preferably occupied place, gas station etc. |Even if you've got deadly enemies who may pretend to be cops, that's not an |excuse to murder police. It wouldn't be murder, it would be self defense. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com ",19 "Re: Being right about messiahs Jesus isn't God ? When Jesus returns some people may miss Him ? What version of the Bible do you read Mike ? Jesus is God incarnate (in flesh) . Jesus said, 'I and the Father are one.' Jesus was taken up to heaven after His 40 day post-resurrection stint and the angels who were there assured the apostles that Jesus would return the same way and that everyone will see the coming. That's why Jesus warned that many would come claiming to be Him but that we would know when Jesus actually returns. These are two very large parts of my faith and you definitely hit a nerve :-) -Sheila Patterson, CIT CR-Technical Support Cornell University Ithaca, NY ",15 "Resound Hearing aids (and others) I have a fairly severe high frequency hearing loss. A recent rough test showed a gently sloping loss to 10-20db down at 1000cps. Then it falls off a cliff to 70-80dbs down from 1500cps on. This type of loss is difficult to fit. I am currently using some old siemens behind the ear aids which keep me roughly functional, but leave a lot to be desired. Recently I had an opportunity to test the Widex Q8 behind the ear aids for several weeks. These have four independent programs which are intended to be customized for different hearing situations and can be reprogramed. I found them to be a definite improvement over my current aids and was about to go ahead with them until another local outfit advertised a free trial of another programmable system called ReSound. Unfortunately I was only able to try the ReSound aids in their office for about 30 minutes and I couldn't compare them 'head to head' with the Widex. Nevertheless, it did appear to me that they were superior and I was impressed by what I was able to read about the theory behind them which I will give in a separate posting. They also carry the Widex aids and had one patient (presumably wealthy) who decided to go ahead and get the ReSound even though he had purchased the Widex only 6 months ago. The problem is that the ReSound aids are about twice as expensive as the Widex and other programmable aids. I could take a trip to Europe on the difference! Being a lover of bargains and hating to spend money, I am having a hard time persuading myself to go with the ReSounds. I would appreciate any opinions on this and other hearing aids and projections about when and if I might see improvements in technology that aren't quite so expensive. -Rich Haller University of Oregon, Eugene, OR, USA ",13 "Re: How to speed up games (marginally realistic) Pablo A Iglesias (pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu) wrote: : I have wondered why a pitcher is given 8 pitches when he enters the : game. Let's be serious. The relief pitcher has normally been : throwing out in the bullpen for a few minutes. Does he really need 8 : more pitches? If the relief pitcher didn't get 8 pitches, there wouldn't be enough time to: 1) Play ""Hit The Road Jack"" 2) The Iron City Relief Pitcher Commercial 3) The announcers to detail to us exactly what drove the previous one from the game 4) A detailed biography, both personal and statistical, of the new guy throwing his 8 pitches. 5) Get really cool super-slo-mo pictures for Diamond Vision to put up by said pitchers name and stats! Caleb ",9 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article , bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes: > b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes: > > > >One way or another -- so much for patience. Too bad you couldn't just > >wait. Was the prospect of God's Message just too much to take? > > So you believe that David Koresh really is Jesus Christ? Yea, who'd ever believe that God would show up in human form. :-0 -- Russ Anderson | Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect ------------------ upon my employer or anyone else. (c) 1993 EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!) ",19 "Re: Mormon beliefs about children born out of wedlock In article aaronc@athena.mit.edu (Aaron Bryce Cardenas) writes: >Bruce Webster writes: >>Indeed, LDS doctrine goes one step further and in some cases >>holds parents responsible for their children's sins if they have >>failed to bring them up properly (cf. D&C 68:25-28 >Hi Bruce. How do you reconcile this practice with Ezekiel 18? >Ezekiel 18:20 ""The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not >share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the >son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and >the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."" Actually in D&C 68:25-28 the parents are being held accountable for their own sins. Specifically they are accountable for their failure to teach their children properly. If I fail to teach my children that stealing is wrong then I am responsible for their theft if they later indulge in such behavior. This is very similar to the instructions Ezekiel was given in Eze 3:18. If Ezekiel failed to do his duty and warn the wicked, not only would the wicked die in his sins but the Lord would hold Ezekiel responsible! Similarly parents are responsible to teach their children right from wrong. I suspect most Christians (and Jews etc.) would agree that parents have this responsibility. ",15 "Re: Remember those names come election time. In article ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes: >In article clarinews@clarinet.com (SID BALMAN Jr.) writes: > WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Secretary of State Warren Christopher said Tuesday > there are better ideas to stop the human slaughter in the Balkans than > ordering American fighters to bomb the Serbs, but a frustrated senator > told him to do just that. Oh great. Today's headlines tell us that the Croatians and Bosnians are fighting each other throughout central Bosnia, in battles that the UN describes as ""out of control"" and atrocities being reported from both sides. These people are crazy. Right now the Serbians are Number One in violations of human rights and general carnage but crazed violence in the Balkans is like the car-rental business - if you're Number Two you just try harder. The region doesn't need military aid; it needs psychiatric help! We should bomb them with Thorazine and then air-drop several regiments of psychotherapists. There is no justification for US military involvement because there is no reasonable, definable goal we can achieve militarily. Sure, if send in several divisions of mechanized infantry we can probably stop the more egregious fighting; but only as long as we are willing to stay in there and play policeman and get shot at. The minute we leave or turn our backs they'll be at each other's throats again. BTW, with Bosnia's large Moslem population, why have nations like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, and others with either money or strong military forces not spoken out more forcibly or offered to help out Bosnia? The Turkish ambassador has ocassionally said a thing or two, but that's all; I see no great enthusism from any of those places to get *their* hands dirty. Why does the US always get stuck with this stuff? Besides, there's no case that can be made for US military involvement there that doesn't apply equally well to, say, Liberia, Angola, or (it appears with the Khmer Rouge's new campaign) Cambodia. Non-whites don't count? ---peter ",18 "Re: Gov't break-ins (Re: 60 minutes) In article <1993Apr5.155733.114@pasadena-dc.bofa.com> franceschi@pasadena-dc.bofa.com writes: >In Viet Nam, Lt Calley was tried and convicted of murder because his >troops, in a war setting, deliberately killed innocent people. It is time >that the domestic law enforcement agencies in this country adhere to >standards at least as moral as the military's. Here! Here! But any call for responsibility and accountability from police is invariably interpreted as being ""soft on crime"". Being ""tough on crime"" and building more prisons and seizing more property is the politically astute thing to do these days. >Greed killed the rancher, possibly greed killed the Davidian children. >Government greed. And citizen complacency! >It is time to prosecute the leaders who perform these invasions. Don't forget the politicians that write the laws that make it easy for the police agencies to become corrupt. The War on Some Drugs brought us this corruption and only an end to it (legalization) will stop the corruption. smg ",16 "Re: Graphics Library Package WGT is the WordUp Graphics Toolkit, designed by yours truly and my co-programmer (and brother) Chris Egerter. It is a Turbo/Borland C++ graphics library for programming in 320*200*256 VGA. We are currently producing it as shareware, but in a few years it may be a commercial product (excuse typos, there's no backspace on this terminal). Features include: - loading and saving bit-images (called blocks from herein) - flipping, resizing and warping blocks - loading and saving palette, fading, several in memory at once - graphics primitives such as line, circle, bar, rectangle - region fill (not the usually useless floodfill) - sprites (animated bitmaps), up to 200 onscreen at once - joystick/mouse support - SB support (VOC and CMF) - tile-based game creation using 16*16 pixel tiles to create a 320*200 tile map (or game world) like in Duke Nuke 'Em - number of sprites increased to 1000 - Professional Sprite Creator utility and Map Maker - routines to simplify scrolling games using maps, etc - FLI playing routines, sprites can be animated over the FLI while playing - PCX support, soon GIF - EMS/XMS coming soon as well Leave E-mail to Barry Egerter at egerter@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca Files available on: (use mget wgt*.zip) SIMTEL20 and mirrors pd1: nic.funet.fi pub/msdos/games/programming Some sites may not have recent files, contact me for info regarding the up-to- date information. ",1 "How Do I Modify Key Map? Hello folks, I'm seeing these errors when I try to modify my key map: mwm: invalid accelerator specfication, line x I've added a line in the start up file before the line that starts mwm. It looks like the following: xmodmap keymapfile mwm I think that the problem has to do with a conflict between function keys F1 through F7 which already have assigned functions (e.g. Move, Minimize, etc). The odd thing is that I don't see these errors if I run xmodmap keymapfile from an xterm. Can anyone suggest a way to modify the key map, specifically F1 through F7 AND not have mwm (Motif Window Manager) complain. I realize this is a bit stupid, but we only have time to implement, not time to learn how to implement. Terry ",5 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qk1pp$6hj@kyle.eitech.com> ekr@kyle.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: |In article <1qjd3o$nlv@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: |>In article #In article <1qie61$fkt@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank |>#O'Dwyer) wrote: |>#> Objective morality is morality built from objective values. |># |>#You now pushed down the defintion of objectivity into realm of |>#objective values. So you need to explain that as well, as well |>#as the objective sub-parts, the objective atoms, quarks... |>Firstly, science has its basis in values, not the other way round. |You keep saying that. I do not think it means what you think it |means. |Perhaps you should explain what you think ""science has it's basis |in values"" means. The reason why people DO science is that |they value it's results. That does not mean that science has |it's basis in values. Any more than DES stops working if I stop |valuing my privacy. It's partly as you say: the reason why people do science is that they value it's results. If one follows relativism to the letter, then, the theories and predictions which are the results of science can only be subjectively valued as 'objective', 'correct', or anything else. One cannot attach any objective worth to the results of science, for the simple reason that one cannot attach objective worth to anything. However, not only are the outputs of science subjectively valued, so are the inputs. More problems. Which facts to observe? What is a fact? When am I justified in valuing sensory input as signal rather than noise? How do I know that everyone makes the call the same as I do? As a loyal relativist, I must assume that what's signal for me may not be signal for you. The objectivity postulate should not sit well with me. So the relativist attends to a system, designed at whim, fed with what should be assumed to be conflicting data, in the expectation of results which need satisfy no-one. GIGO. |>So you better explain what objective atoms are, and how we get them |>from subjective values, before we go any further. |See above. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: Donating organs In article <19393@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes: >In article <1993Mar25.161109.13101@sbcs.sunysb.edu> mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway) writes: > >>there been anything recent in ""Transplant Proceedings"" or somesuch, on >>xenografts? How about liver section transplants from living donors? >> > >I'm sure the Pittsburgh group has published the baboon work, but I >don't know where. In Chicago they were doing lobe transplants from >living donors, and I'm sure they've published. The case report of the first xenotransplant was published in Lancet 1993; 341:65-71. I can send you a reprint if you are interested. There was another paper, sort of a tour of the horizon, written by Starzl and published in the Resident's Edition of the Annals of Surgery (vol 216, October 1992). It's in the Surgical Resident's Newsletter section, so you won't find it in the regular issue of the Annals. I don't have any reprints of that one. A paper has been accepted for publication by Immunology Today, though I'm not sure when it's coming out, describing our experience with the two xenografts done to date. As for segmental liver transplants from living related donors I must confess to a total ignorance of that literature. We are philosophically opposed to those, and I don't keep up with that particular field. ===================================================== Howard Doyle doyle+@pitt.edu ",13 "Re: Shuttle 0-Defects & Bizarre? DC-X? In article <1sp513$beo@hsc.usc.edu> khayash@hsc.usc.edu (Ken Hayashida) writes: >Well, Spenz...what can I say? 8-) >You've attacked my beloved vehicle! ;-) If I may offer a constructive criticism, perhaps you should decide if you love vehicles or the use they are put to. I, myself, think the F-86 is a beautiful aircraft, but rest assured, I wouldn't even think of flying it in combat today. Most of us want access to space and judge vehicles on how they perform. >We see ""zero-defects operation"" in many area|s of life. Not to this degree. >Calling shuttle flight characteristics *bizarre* in the same post >as touting DC-X is interesting. Why? >DC-X will also have similar ""zero-defects"" issues (am I wrong?). Your wrong. The DC approach is very tollerent of failure. It also has the advantage of far greater reliability do to its reusable nature (Shuttle isn't reusable, it's salvagable). >I am thinking of how DC-X will deploy a chute or reverse orientation at >supersonic speeds. The flip over happens at a very low speed, not supersonic. If the DC-X shows the flip over works, it will work unless the laws of physics change. >How much in DC-X is redundant? That's the real question. The final DC-1 will have fully intact abort throughout the entire flight envelop. Upon re-entry for example, it can loose about 80% of available thrust and still land safely. >Everything we do in life has zero-defects issues at times (agree?). Everything can suffer from catastrophic failure but that's not the same thing. Shuttle simply isn't a fault tolerent design, SSTO is. >As a doctor, I can not error in my diagnosis and treatment recommendations. You don't put your patients in conditions where there is no way out. You wouldn't for example, give a patient a drug and not monitor them for harmful side effects would you? >While DC-X's R&D program makes good sense, I am less optimistic about DC-X >as you (and apparently others) are. You are very much in the minority. If the DC series fails to make orbit, it will still be a very worthwhile effort. It will show us EXACTLY what we do need to do to build SSTO. >But, DC-X will still have failures. It is the nature of aerospace R&D. Again, refering to the DC-1, it will provide fully intact abort theroughout the flight envelop. Shuttle doesn't. DC is fault tollerent, Shuttle isn't. >It's successors are not slated to be passenger carrying. Not true. Build a passenger pallet (a fairly easy thing to do) and it will carry passengers. >The impression I had >when I visited MacDac Huntington Beach's Open House was that the payload space >was limited and the man-ratable version was decades away. I would suggest you talk to the DC-X crew themselves. Their original schedule had an operational DC-1 flying in 96. >Shuttle is the only method in the free world of orbiting large life sciences >and medical related packages. As for now, it is our only ticket into space >and has my support. Your ignoring the dammage it does. Mannes space has a reputation for being unreliable and hugely expensive. Shuttle supporters only make it easy for opponents of manned space to kill it. >You could change my view on DC-X if you could prove the following: The only way to prove those things is to build it. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lady Astor: ""Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your coffee!"" | | W. Churchill: ""Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."" | +----------------------35 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ",14 "LLNL Inflated space stations (was Deployable Space Dock..) kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes: >: In article <1993Apr30.000050.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >: >Why not build a inflatable space dock. [discussion of pros and cons deleted] >These are some of the technical difficulties which the LLNL proposal >for an inflatable space station dealt with to varying degrees of >success. Could someone give me the references to the LLNL proposal? I've been meaning to track it down in conjuntion with something I'm working on. It's not directly related to space stations, but I think many of the principles will carry over. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ""Find a way or make one."" -attributed to Hannibal ",14 "Does someone know what is the news group for IEEE. yxy4145@usl.edu Thanks a lot. ",12 "Re: Goalie masks In article <120666@netnews.upenn.edu> kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller) writes: >My vote goes to John Vanbiesbrouck. His mask has a skyline of New York >City, and on the sides there are a bunch of bees (Beezer). It looks >really sharp. Funny you should mention this; one time on HNIC Don Cherry pointed out Vanbiesbrouck's mask. He _hated_ it. I think he said something to the effect of: ""You see? He was great last year; now he goes out and gets that dopey mask and he can't stop a beachball!"" You may or may not take Cherry seriously at all, but I cracked up when I heard it. I think Ed Belfour has the current best mask in the NHL btw. I also like Moog's, and I'll give Fuhr's new one an honourable mention, although I haven't seen it closely yet (it looked good from a distance!). What's also neat is Chevaldae's in Detroit; they call him ""Chevy"" so he has two checkered flags painted at the top as in an auto race. ",10 "Front end for POVRay G'day all! Does anyone know anything about front end for POVRay (X11 version)? I mean are there things like user friendly modeller for POVRay, or any modellers which will let me design a scene and produce a file which POVRay can then read? Cheers, Tomek +------------------------------------------------------+ | /\ tm | | /--\TOMEK tpiatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz <-- New Zealand | +------------------------------------------------------+ -- +------------------------------------------------------+ | /\ tm | | /--\TOMEK tpiatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz <-- New Zealand | +------------------------------------------------------+ ",1 "Re: Ancient references to Christianity (was: Albert Sabin) In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: }Why would the NT NOT be considered a good source. This might be a }literary/historical question, but when I studied history I always looked for }firsthand original sources to write my papers. If I want to check the original New Testament manuscripts for possible copying errors or mistranslations, which museum would I have to visit? If I wanted to do this for _Alice in Wonderland_, I'd visit the British Museum where I would find the original manuscript and be able to compare it to the printed edition that I own (I'd find many differences including a different title). Likewise, if I had a cast of _Archaeopteryx_, I could take it to Berlin to compare it to the original fossil found at Solenhofen. -- Herb Huston -- huston@access.digex.com ",19 "Ozzie Smith a Defensive Liability? In article <1993Apr17.200602.8229@leland.Stanford.EDU> addison@leland.Stanford.EDU (Brett Rogers) writes: >In article steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes: >>>Smith, Ozzie .742 .717 .697 .672 .664 0.701 >> The Wizard's 1988 is the second highest year ever. Still very good, >>but I don't like the way his numbers have declined every year. In a few >>years may be a defensive liability. > >That's rich... Ozzie Smith a defensive liability... Why? Do you expect him to remain the best shortstop in the game until he reaches his seventy-third birthday, or something? Why is it such a strange concept that a forty-one-year-old Ozzie Smith might be a defensive liability in 1996? -- ted frank | thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | I'm sorry, the card says ""Moops."" the u of c law school | standard disclaimers | ",9 "Re: Jack Morris In article <1993Apr20.160532.20860@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes: >>(BTW, by my definitions, >>the ""best"" player is the one who does the most things to help his team >>win. I will allow that this could vary depending on who else is on the >>team, by having aptitudes one team needs more than others.) > >Well then given your definition of ""best"" is it not conceivable that >Alfredo Griffin could bring something to a team that that team needs >to win while Larkin might not have that something the team needs? No. I do not find this conceivable. I also cannot conceive of the possibility that there is any hypothetical team which Morris would help more than Clemens. >Would Griffin then be better than Larkin? Given your premise, yes. But you are alone in your ability to conceive of that premise. -Valentine ",9 "Another CVIEW question (was CView answers) Has anybody gotten CVIEW to work in 32k or 64k color mode on a Trident 8900c hi-color card? At best the colors come out screwed up, and at worst the program hangs. I loaded the VESA driver, and the same thing happens on 2 different machines. If it doesn't work on the Trident, does anybody know of a viewer that does? Thanx! LISA ",1 "Decent, CHEAP 20+MHZ Scopes? Any info on modern 20MHZ or better dual trace scopes would be appreciated. Should I buy a used one or a new one? And where? Please E-Mail. Thanks in advance. Ken -- __ Ken Gravenstede, Performance Technologies Incorporated kng@pt.com 315 Science Parkway, Rochester, New York 14620 uupsi!ptsys1!kng ",12 "Re: Octopus in Detroit? David ",10 "Re: The Amazin' Isles!!!!!! WATCH OUT PITSBURGH HERE COME THE ISLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They said we wouldn't make the playoffs and we came in third They said the Caps would beat us and they're not going to They say that Pitsburgh has a 1:1 ratio of winning the cup but We'll prove them wrong. L E T S G O I S L A N D E R S!!!!!!! Bring it back home -- ////////// ///////// // // // // // // / // // // // // / // // // // / / // ",10 "Out of environment space running BAT files from Windows I have a .BAT file that I run under a Windows Icon. I have set up a PIF file to run the BAT file in exclusive mode and to use the entire screen. The first line of the BAT file sets an environment variable. My problem is that on some of our machines (running MS-DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1 in enhanced mode), the SET command in the BAT file fails with the OUT OF ENVIRONMENT SPACE error. I have raised the amount of environment space to 2048 bytes using the SHELL command in CONFIG.SYS so I know that I am nowhere near to running out. If I just click on the MS-DOS icon, I can create a bunch of environment varibles from the DOS shell. The problem is that on some machines, setting the value of an environment variable in a BAT file fails. Has anyone seen such behavior before? I see no place in the PIF fail to configure environment space. Lance J. Gay Internet: gay@venice.sedd.trw.com TRW Systems Engineering & Development Div. Phone: 310-764-3988 Carson, CA 90746 ",2 "Re: How many israeli soldiers... What are you ``joking'' dark so much for? > Q: How many occupying israeli soldiers (terrorists) does it > take to kill a 5 year old native child? > > A: Four > > Two fasten his arms, one shoots in the face, > and one writes up a false report. > > -- > / .. / . > /_______/_/__________/_/_/ _< /____/ > /___ / .. /____/ > 1. There is a similar idea here in ex-USSR about how many militioners it needs to place a new electric lamp. The answer is nine: one stays on a table and holds the lamp, four hold the table and turn it and yet four run around the table in opposite direction not to make the first feel bad (when being turned). Pitily, it lacks this kind of dark humour as Nick's msg does. 2. To my mind the signature should be smth like: / _ __ / . /_______/_/_______________ /________ /____/ /___ / _ / Albert -- _ .. I _ .. II ___I__/__)____I__I__(_) I____I ___I__II __) ' __) . ",17 "Re: Help: 2 internal HDs in Mac II? In article <1993Apr1.054820.3942@siemens.co.at> Kurt Netzer, kurt@siemens.co.at writes: >Is it possible to install a 2nd 3 1/2"" 100 MB HD in a Mac II with a >5 1/4"" 40 MB Qunatum HD? >Can i us a 50 pin cable with 3 connectors for the internal motherboard >SCSI-Connector and the 2 SCSI-HD Connectors. The first HD is'nt terminated >the second will be. >Whats about the power supply. Where can i connect a 3 1/2"" AMP-Connector >to supply my 3 1/2"" HD? It is very possible to connect another internal hard disk in any macintosh if you can find the space to put it. I have a IIsi that came with a Quantum 80 meg drive. When I ran into space problems, I slapped in another 40 meg quantum that I had sitting on a shelf. Here is what I did. First off, I was concerned about space. Since both drives are Quantum quarter height drives, I finally decided that the logical place for them was stacked one upon the other. Fine, they fit snugly. (I have not had a problem with heat yet, and these drives have been running together for over two months. The next problem was connecting the drive. If you have a spare internal hard disk power cable as I did, then half of your troubles are over. just splice in the extra cable so that you get one square motherboard connector and two hard disk power connectors. If you don't have a spare cable, you will have to buy the wires and connectors which can be found in any good electronics store for about $10. I would suggest properly soldering/heatshrinking the connections to reduce the possibility of shorts or bad connections. Next, you need a ribbon cable connection. Again, I had a spare hard disk ribbon cable, and I wanted to be careful in case this didn't word so what I did was purchase a crimp on 50 pin cable connector that gave me another male connector in the middle of my spare cable. The part cost $10 again, and is easily attached with any good wood vice. The theory behind using a crimp on connector is that if this doesn't work, my original cable is not damaged, and I can go back to the original setup. Having done all that, I couldn't be bothered to check the dev notes for power consumption so I plugged it in and it works like a charm to this day. In a mac II, everything should work the same. Be careful with the ID's of the drive, and ensure that the terminating resistors on both drives are intact. I did not try this without the terminating resistors but it seemed logical that if I am splitting the SCSI chain, that the signal should be terminated at all the ends. Let me know if you have any more questions. Peter Hansen Bell Northern Research pgmoffc@BNR.ca ",4 "Re: How many read sci.space? There are actually only two of us. I do Henry, Fred, Tommy and Mary. Oh yeah, this isn't my real name, I'm a bald headed space baby. -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |Texans: Vote NO on Robin Hood. We need pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com |solutions, not gestures. PADI DM-54909 | ",14 "Re: UNIX and DOS talking on QIC-150 tapes. kdq@quest.UUCP (Kevin D. Quitt) writes: >I have a system with a SCSI drive. I want to get a QIC-150 tape unit to >attach to it, and then run software that will read (and maybe even write) >UNIX TAR tapes. (Or at least just read a stream and dump it to file - I'll >take it from there). >Why is this impossible? It isn't. ;-) Use tar on the Un*x box and gtak110.zip on the DOS box. Needs ASPI driver. Ralf -- Ralf G. R. Bergs, Aachen University of Technology EE (comp. eng.) student snail: H""uckeswagener Str. 42, D-W5270 Gummersbach, Fed. Rep. of Germany phone: (+49) 22 61-2 19 68 (answ. mach.) / Note: new zip (51647) as of July 1st email: rabe@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de ",3 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card In article hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes: > >In article , john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes: >|>hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: > >|>]No information is given as to the circumstances of the attack. Let us >|>]imagine that the people in the car were BATF agents and the persons >|>]in the truck lawful citizens carying out their right to bear arms. I can >|>]guarantee that at least one gun loony would support the guys in the truck. >|>Nice imagination, but not true. A FAR more likely case is that the >|>people in the car were members of a street gan. > >Hmm, I sort of wondered why they happened to be quite so prepared for attack. Phill, here in Indiana, where we not only have CCWs (permits to carry firearms), but we also have a fairly low crime rate. At any one given point the occupants in my vehicles are likely to be armed. I've never had to use my gun, but am prepared to do so if I am attacked. In essence, I'm quite prepared. I also have, in the glove box, my proof of insurance, as mandated by Indiana law. So, if I got into an accident and had to whip out my insurance policy to prove that I can pay for any damages I may have caused will you ""wonder why I'm so prepared for an accident""? Even where it not Indiana law I would still be carrying my automobile insurance. I also wear my seatbelt. Does that make me bad for ""preparing for an accident""? >of armed people you are going to have lots of deaths as a result. The Swiss >analogy is entirely irrelevant, there are no social divisions in Switzerland >and almost no incentive for violent crime - there are much easier ways to >get very rich. Oh? Are you saying that the guns are not the problem then? > >Maddison and Hamilton were not suggesting that every punk with an inferiority >complex should be able to rectify it by buying a machine gun. So in your society, only the physically strong would survive? Just how would the physically weaker survive? -- Anmar Mirza # Chief of Tranquility #My Opinions! NotIU's!#CIANSAKGBFBI EMT-D # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#ASSASINATEDEA N9ISY (tech) # Somewhere out on the # Politicians prefer #NAZIPLUTONIUM Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants. #PRESIDENTFEMA ",16 "Re: Clinton wants National ID card, aka USSR-style ""Internal Passport"" In article <1993Apr19.162137.1306@hsh.com>, paul@hsh.com (Paul Havemann) says: > >In article , tsmith+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Smith) writes: >> In article <1993Apr16.022926.27270@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> U >fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.ED >(Frank Crary) writes: >>>In article slack@boi.hp.com (David Slack) writes: >>>>The idea of the card is bull in and of its self, but I'm curious to know, >do >>>>they plan on making it a requirement to *always* have it on you, or is it >>>>only going to be required to be *presented* when trying to ge medical aid? >>> >>>This, at least, has already been determined: The Blue Cross medical >>>coverage for all federal employees is a good model for a future >>>national system. To get emergency medical care, anyone so insured >>>must always carry their Blue Cross card. Before entering a hospital, >>>you must notify Blue Cross, or they will refuse to pay your bills. >>>In an emergency, where you must be treated before notifying them, >>>you must inform them within 24 hours or (if you are unable to do >>>so for medical reasons) the hospital must. Failing to do so within >>>24 hours means they will not cover the hospitalization. In you need >>>your card to notify them (and without the card, the hospital certainly >>>wouldn't know they had to.) Therefore, you are required to carry >>>the card at all times, or do without emergency medical coverage. >>> >> Which works fine until you end up in the hospital because you were hit on >the >> head and your wallet, with your insurance card, is stolen. This happened to >> me, and it took six months to sort the mess out. These sorts of plans sound >> nice at first, but in the end they just create a lot of paperwork and >> bureaucracy to deal with all the checking and filing they involve. >> >> Tom the non hacker > >Whoa! Have a care what you say, Tom. The _obvious_ answer to that problem >is to tatoo your National I.D. Number on you -- say, your forearm -- so you >can never leave home without it. Hell, it worked once before... > >And that brings us back to my original, sarcasm-laden post: where's the >outcry from the liberal sector over the National ID Card? My God, if some >conservative had proposed this -- plus Clinton's ""National Police"" proposal >-- the liberals would be shrieking ""Sieg Heil!"" and ""Police State""! > >You self-styled liberals ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Hypocrites! I don't know what you watch, but I saw a spokesman for the ACLU voice opposition to this idea on NBC the very first night. ",16 "Re: what do y'all think of the IIvx? jfinete@cats.ucsc.edu (Joseph Manuel Finete) writes: >The IIvx...LCIII performance at a Centris 610 price. >And unless >you're running FPU-intensive software, the 610 will blow the doors off the >LCIII and the IIvx. From the benchmarks I've seen (was that in MacUser or MacWeek?) the FPU-less Centris 610 is _faster_ at floating-point operations (the kind of calculations that get routed to an FPU) than a Mac IIfx! And a Mac IIfx (68030 @ 40MHz + FPU) is _the_ fastest 030-based Mac. Take note, of course, that benchmarks never tell the whole story... Get your favorite program(s) and run them on both machines at the store. They should let you do that before you plunk down a hefty amount... Virtually, Philippe -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Philippe Casgrain Etudiant-Chercheur Casgrain@ERE.UMontreal.CA Departement des Sciences Biologiques Universite de Montreal #define disclaimer(caught) (caught ? ""I wasn't even there!"" : ""I didn't do it!"") ",4 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <1ra073INNcgu@clem.handheld.com>, jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes: > > I tend to agree, but I would like a better explanation of why the FBI stopped > the firetrucks at the gate. I saw this in realtime. It concerns me that the > FBI ""appeared"" to not be too interested in stopping the fire after it started, > and actually started flying hueys around the compound, which had to add in some > small part to the winds driving the fire. > > Jim > -- I understand fire trucks had been at the site for several weeks but were sent home three or four days before the assault. Can anyone confirm this? -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Joe Gaut | In the super-state, it really does not | matter at all what actually happened. Remember the Alamo | Truth is what the government chooses to Remember Waco | tell you. Justice is what it wants to happen. --Jim Garrison, New Orleans, La. ",16 "Re: Turkey-Cyprus-Bosnia-Serbia-Greece (Armenia-Azeris) In article <1993Apr15.174657.6176@news.uiowa.edu> mau@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Mau Napoleon) writes: >Compromise on what, the invasion of Cyprus, the involment of Turkey in >Greek politics, the refusal of Turkey to accept 12 miles of territorial >waters as stated by international law, the properties of the Greeks of >Konstantinople, the ownership of the islands in the Greek lake,sorry, Aegean. Well, it did not take long to see how consequent some Greeks are in requesting that Thessaloniki are not called Solun by Bulgarian netters. So, Napoleon, why do you write about Konstantinople and not Istanbul? Marek Osinski ",17 "John Wetteland, Derek Lilliquist, info please. Hi there, I was wondering if anyone knew if John Wetteland was put on the DL again after his first 15-day period was up? I read in the USA Today Sports section that he is on for ""surgery to repair broken toe"", and was wondering if that was new. I thought he was just letting it heal. Another question, Is Derek Lilliquist the main closer for the Indians now that Olin is gone. I need to know cause I need to find a reliever to replace Wetteland and so far Lilliquist is doing ok. Any information on either of the players would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. Ryan Robin. ___________________________________________________________ [==================] Texas Rangers in 1993! [==================] Jose Canseco for MVP. [==] [==] [==] [==] [==] [==] Ryan N. Robin [==] 311 Weatherford Hall [==] Corvallis, OR. [==] 97331-1701 [==] [========] [========] (robinr@prism.cs.orst.edu) ___________________________________________________________ ",9 "Laser Printer Forsale: Repost The following is posted for a friend. You can send replies to this email address or call him at 503-752-1499. (Glen) I have a CITIZEN OVERTURE 110 Laser printer for sale. It is in excellent condition. It has been used less than one year on this drum. I am asking $500, but all offers will be considered. Below are some specs on it. Toner lifespan: 2500 pages Drum lifespan: 15,000 pages Resolution: 300 DPI Memory: 512K Emulation: Epson FX286 IBM ProPrinter Diablo 635 Printing Capacity: Quad-density graphics Tray capacity: 250 sheets Reason for sale: Financial--I need to pay tuition. Thanks, -Glen Anderson bigelos@hobo.ece.orst.edu ",6 "Re: Fenway Gif I'd love to see a Shea Stadium gif. -Sean ******************************************************************************* ""Behind the bag!"" - Vin Scully ******************************************************************************* ",9 "Re: Eco-Freaks forcing Space Mining. Besides this was the same line of horse puckey the mining companies claimed when they were told to pay for restoring land after strip mining. they still mine coal in the midwest, but now it doesn't look like the moon when theyare done. pat ",14 "When are two people married LISTOWNER: I have sent this to Mr Anderson privately. Post it only if you think it of general interest. Here is a copy of something I wrote for another list. You may find it relevant. A listmember asks: > What makes common-law marriages wrong? A common-law marriage is not necessarily wrong in itself. There is nothing in the Bible (Old or New Testament) about getting married by a preacher, or by a priest (Jewish or Christian). And in fact Jewish priests have never had any connection with weddings. There is a common notion that the marriage is performed by the clergyman. In fact, the traditional Christian view (at least in the West) is that the bride and groom are the ministers of the marriage, and that the clergyman is there only as a witness. HOWEVER! The essential ingredient of a marriage is mutual commitment. Two persons are considered to be married if and only if they have bound themselves by mutual promises to live together as husband and wife, forsaking all others, till death do them part. The reason why those who have reason to be concerned about who is married to whom have always insisted on some kind of public ceremony is in order that society, and the couple themselves, may be clear about whether a commitment has been made. Suppose that we do away with the public ceremony, the standard vows, etc. Instead, we have a man and a woman settling down to live together. After a year or so, the man says to the woman: Hey, honey, it was great while it lasted, but I think it's time to move on. She says: What are you talking about? He says: I am leaving you and looking for someone prettier and younger. She says: But you can't. We are married! He says: What are you talking about? We never got married. She says: I remember distinctly what you said to me the night we first made love. You said: ""My love for you is as deep as the ocean, as eternal as the stars. As long as I live, I am yours, utterly and completely. When I lie on my deathbed, my last feeble breath will utter your name. My..."" He says: Oh that! That was just rhetoric. Just poetry. When a man is in a romantic mood, he is bound to say all kinds of silly things like that. You mustn't take them literally. And that is why you have an insistence on a formal ceremony that is a matter of public record. The Church insists on it, because it is her duty (among other things) to give moral advice, and you cannot give a man moral advice about his relations with a woman if you have no idea who is married to whom, if anybody, and vice versa. The State insists on it, since the state has a concern with property rights, with child care and support, and therefore needs to know who has made what commitments to whom. Prospective fathers-in-law insist on it, because they don't want their daughters seduced and abandoned. Prospective spouses insist on it, because they want to make sure they know whether what they are hearing is a real commitment, or just ""poetry."" And persons making vows themselves insist on making them formally and publicly, in order that they may be clear in their own minds about what it is that they are doing, and may know themselves that this is not just rhetoric. This is the real thing. Hence the insistence on a formal public explicit avowal of the marriage commitment. The Church goes further and insists that, when Christians marry, a clergyman shall be present at the wedding and record the vows on behalf of the Church, not because it is impossible to have a valid wedding without a clergyman, but in order to make sure that the couple understand what the Christian teaching about marriage is, and that they are in fact promising to be married in a Christian sense. The Church also prefers a standard marriage vow, and is wary of letting couples Write their own vows, for much the same reason that lawyers prefer standard terminology when they draw up a will or a contract. Certain language has been repeatedly used in wills, and one can be sure how the courts will interpret it. Try to say the same thing in your own words, and you may find that the probate judge's interpretation of them is not at all what you intended. Similarly, the Church prefers to avoid endless debates about whether ""You are my main squeeze"" and ""I am here for the long haul"" do in fact cover the same territory as ""forsaking all others"" and ""till death do us part."" This topic has come up on the list before. (Is there any topic that hasn't?) One listmember was asking, ""If a couple love each other and are living together, isn't that marriage in the eyes of God?"" Eventually someone asked, ""In that case, what is their status if they break up? Is that the moral equivalent of getting a divorce? Are they in a relationship that God forbids either of them to walk out on? "" The original questioner said: ""Good grief, I never thought of that!"" In fact, there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that someone who says, ""We don't need a piece of paper or a ceremony in front of a judge or a preacher in order to show that we love each other,"" is trying to have it both ways -- to have the advantages of marriage plus the option of changing his mind with a minimum of bother. At this point someone may say, ""None of this applies to me and my mate. We are quite clear on the fact that we have assumed a lifelong commitment, 'for better or worse, forsaking all others, till death us do part.' So in our case, no ceremony is needed."" To this my reply would be: The reason for requiring a driver's license is to keep dangerous drivers off the road. What is wrong in itself is not the existence of unlicensed drivers, but the existence of dangerous drivers. However, testing and licensing drivers is an obvious and reasonable means of pursuing the goal of reducing the number of dangerous drivers on the road. Therefore the State rightly makes and enforces such laws, and you the citizen have a positive moral obligation to refrain from driving without a license no matter how much of a hotshot behind the wheel you think you are. Back to the original question. We have a listmember who knows a couple who have been living together for around 20 years. He asks: At what point did they stop fornicating and start being married? I answer: at the point, if any, where they both definitely and explicitly accepted an obligation to be faithful to each other, for better or worse, as long as they both lived. If they have accepted such an obligation, what are their reasons for not being willing to declare it in front of, say, a justice of the peace? Yours, James Kiefer ",15 "RIPEM Frequently Asked Questions Archive-name: ripem/faq Last-update: Sun, 7 Mar 93 21:00:00 -0500 ABOUT THIS POSTING ------------------ This is a (still rather rough) listing of likely questions and information about RIPEM, a program for public key mail encryption. It (this FAQ, not RIPEM) was written and will be maintained by Marc VanHeyningen, . It will be posted to a variety of newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific to RIPEM is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem. This month, I have reformatted this posting in an attempt to comply with the standards for HyperText FAQ formatting to allow easy manipulation of this document over the World Wide Web. Let me know what you think. DISCLAIMER ---------- Nothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything other than one person's opinion. If you want real legal advice, talk to a real lawyer. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS --------------------- 1) What is RIPEM? RIPEM is a program which performs Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM) using the cryptographic techniques of RSA and DES. It allows your electronic mail to have the properties of authentication (i.e. who sent it can be confirmed) and privacy (i.e. nobody can read it except the intended recipient.) RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan . Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines, which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc. 2) How can I get RIPEM? RIPEM contains the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution to people who are not citizens or permanent residents of the U.S. or Canada. Therefore, the following request is quoted from the README file: #Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution #outside of the USA or Canada. This is a personal request from me, #the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM. Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is included with the distribution. You should read it before using RIPEM. The best way to get it is to ask a friend for a copy, since this will reduce the load on those sites that do carry it (not to mention the humans that run them.) Naturally this requires that you trust the friend. RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent residents in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README file for info. Last I looked, this site contains only the source tree, and does not contain compiled binaries or the nice Mac version. RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its ""home site"" on rpub.cl.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents. To find out how to obtain access, ftp there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file GETTING_ACCESS. For convenience, binaries for many architectures are available here in addition to the full source tree. 3) Will RIPEM run on my machine? Probably. It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.) Ports to Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt. More ports are expected, and help of users is invited. 4) Will RIPEM work with my mailer? Probably. How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though. The users guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH. Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU Emacs. If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure, and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem. 5) What is RSA? RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key. This means that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to decrypt. Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other, you may publish your encryption, or public key widely and keep your decryption, or private key to yourself. Anyone can use your public key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to decrypt it. (Note that the ""message"" sent with RSA is normally just the DES key to the real message. (See ""What is DES?"") Note that the above only provides for privacy. For authentication, the fingerprint of the message (See ""What is a fingerprint, like MD5?"") is encrypted with the sender's private key. The recipient can use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm that the message must have come from the sender. RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who invented it. To find out more about RSA, ftp to rsa.com and look in pub/faq/ or look in sci.crypt. 6) What is DES? DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or secret-key, crypto system. Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to encrypt and decrypt messages. However, DES is much faster than RSA. RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts your mail with DES using that key. It then encrypts that key with the recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter, allowing the recipient to recover the DES key. DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a key length considered too short by modern standards. However, it should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large corporation or government agency. It is not unlikely that future RIPEMs will strengthen the symmetric cipher, possibly by using multiple encryption with DES. 7) What is PEM, and how does RIPEM relate? PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a system for allowing easy transfer of encrypted electronic mail. It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115. RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not handle at this time. Their addition is planned. 8) What's this about distributing and authenticating keys? For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know your public key. For you to be able to confirm that the message received came from her, you must know her public key. It is important that this information be accurate; if a ""bad guy"" convinces her that his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read. RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server, the distributed finger servers, and a flat file. All three are described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution. None of them provide perfect security. 9) Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar? RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS identifier describing various characteristics about the key, so the first bunch of characters in your key may be the same as those of lots of other people's keys. This does not mean your keys are similar, but only that they are the same class of key, were generated with the same program, are of the same length, etc. 10) What is a fingerprint, like MD5? MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc. It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash, of the plaintext. It is cryptographically secure because it is not possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint. Thus, instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key, only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication. MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a passphrase interpreter or cookie generator. MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in RFC 1321. 11) What is PGP? PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy. PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently. PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA. Some major differences between PGP and RIPEM: - PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without a direct network connection. - RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability of working with other PEM software. PGP makes no attempt to be compatible with anything other than PGP (in fact, PGP 1.0 is not compatible with PGP 2.0.) - RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSA Data Security Inc. RSAREF comes with a license which allows noncommercial use. PGP uses its own implementation of RSA which is not licensed; thus, PKP, the firm holding the U.S. patents on the RSA algorithm, claims that it is a infringement of that patent to make, use or sell PGP in the U.S. or Canada. In acknowledgement of this, PGP's original author, Phil Zimmermann, says in the documentation: #In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency, #you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public #Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software. PGP is #contraband. - Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside the U.S. and Canada. However, PGP already exists on many ftp sites in Europe and other places. Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues. Note that the above facts, both regarding patent and export restrictions, are somewhat controversial; many people think it shouldn't be that way, and some people interpret various documents differently. Unfortunately, discussions of it on the net inevitably seem to produce more heat than light, and probably belong in misc.legal.computing. (See: ""DISCLAIMER"") 12) What about RPEM? RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail. It was similar to RIPEM, but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in an attempt to avoid the patent on RSA. It was written by Mark Riordan, the same author as RIPEM. Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many (including Rabin), Public Key Partners (PKP) claimed that their patent was broad enough to cover any public-key cipher whose strength rested in the difficulty of factoring products of large primes, not just RSA. This claim is not universally accepted by any means, but was not challenged for pragmatic reasons. RPEM is not really used anymore. It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP. 13) What is MIME? MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is described in RFC 1341. You can find out about it in the newsgroup comp.mail.mime. How PEM should interact with MIME is not yet entirely clear; some people use the stopgap solution of having a MIME type application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM messages as MIME ones. I hope some standards will emerge. Draft Internet documents exist on the matter. 14) I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM... You may wish to check the companion post ""ripem-attacks"" which discusses some of the more obvious attacks on RIPEM's security and what procedures will minimize the risk. RIPEM's main ""weak area"" is probably key distribution. ",11 "How Redirect PRINT MANAGER To FILE? Hello, Who can tell me Where can I find the PD or ShareWare Which can CAPTURE windows 3.1's output of printer mananger? I want to capture the output of HP Laser Jet III. Though the PostScript can setup to print to file,but HP can't. I try DOS's redirect program,but they can't work in Windows 3.1 Thankx for any help.... -- Internet Address: u7911093@cc.nctu.edu.tw English Name: Erik Wang Chinese Name: Wang Jyh-Shyang National Chiao-Tung University,Taiwan,R.O.C. ",2 "FOR SALE: Paradise SVGA accelerator card FOR SALE: Paradise SVGA accelerator card -800x600x32768 -1240x1024x16 -up to 15 times faster than vga -manual, drivers -used for 5 months, perfect condition -WD chipset $120 OBO for more info THOUCHIN@CS.UMR.EDU T.J. HOUCHIN ",6 "X Intrinsic mailing list As we don't get a newsfeed I was wondering whether there was such a thing as a Xt mailing list (other than xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu). I would appreciate any info on this, (or X related mailing lists.) Thanks in advance, Leon +-------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | Leon Thrane | Telephone: +45 - 45 93 51 00 | | DimatriX ApS | FAX: +45 - 45 93 51 11 | | Lyngby Hovedgade 15D | E-mail: leon@dimatrix.dk | | DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark | or ...!uunet!dimatrix.dk!leon | +-------------------------------+---------------------------------+ ",5 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article , gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: |>In hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: |> |> The founding fathers of the US were hardly great on religious freedoms. At |> least one history I have read formed the opinion that they left for the |> US not to practice religious freedom but to practice religious intolerance. |> |>Sigh, see what our school systems are producing? Total confusion! |>The original English settlers were, probably, the most intolerant lot |>of people to ever assemble. However, the Founding Fathers |>(Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc.), practically made it their |>life's work to ensure that religious intolerance would not destroy |>their great experiment... a democratic republic. Pilgrim ... Founding forgot the taxonomy for a mo. Jefferson etc were pretty hot on Religious freedom in part because they were freemasons. At the time freemasonry was bing pushed as a sort of alternative to christianity which was a little out of favour amongst the intellectuals because of the propensity for religious wars. On the continent the Masons were pretty much a way of denying the Pope's authority. Latter on it science came up with an alternative explanation for why the Universe existed and the intellectual necessity of creating a creator lessened. If you don't have Darwin though Freemasonry is probably the next best explanation as to the creation of the earth. Phill Hallam-Baker ",18 "Re: Command Loss Timer (Re: Galileo Update - 04/22/93) In article <1993Apr26.193924.1189@bnr.ca>, jcobban@bnr.ca (Jim Cobban) writes: =Having read in the past about the fail-safe mechanisms on spacecraft, I had =assumed that the Command Loss Timer had that sort of function. However I =always find disturbing the oxymoron of a ""NO-OP"" command that does something. =If the command changes the behavior or status of the spacecraft it is not =a ""NO-OP"" command. Using your argument, the NOOP operation in a computer isn't a NOOP, since it causes the PC to be incremented. =Of course this terminology comes from a Jet Propulsion Laboratory which has =nothing to do with jet propulsion. Of course, the complaint comes from someone who hasn't a clue as to what he's talking about. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. ",14 "Disk data compression and Interleave Does anyone have enough experience to report whether disk data compression has any effect on the optimal disk sector interleave? Offhand, I expect that the time required to decompress disk data would increase the optimum disk sector interleave. - Alan Hinds ",3 "Space Marketing -- Boycott In the New York Times on Sunday May 9th in the week in review section there was a report of a group called ""Space Marketing"" in Atlanta, Georgia who is planning to put up a one mile wide reflective Earth orbiting satelite which will appear as large and as bright as the Moon and carry some sort of advertising. There was an editorial about this in the Times the following Tuesday. Are others as upset about this as I am? I feel that a global boycott of anyone involved with such a project would be a good idea. Perhaps it could be made illegal in various countries around the world? Do others agree? -david [Relevant messages found on the net:] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: webb@tsavo.hks.com (Peter Webb) Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Stopping the sky-vandals Date: 13 May 1993 21:17:22 GMT Organization: HKS, Inc. Distribution: world If you don't want to see Space Marketing put up orbiting billboards, write them, or call them, and tell them so. You might also write your congresspeople. Space Marketing can be reached at: Attn: Mike Lawson Public Relations Dept. Space Marketing 1495 Atmbree Rd., Suite 600 Rosewell, GA 30076 (404)-442-9682 -- Peter Webb webb@hks.com Hibbitt, Karlsson & Sorensen, Inc. Voice: 401-727-4200 1080 Main St, Pawtucket RI 02860 FAX: 401-727-4208 [Alternatively, you could try to find out who their clients will be and tell *them* how you feel.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.misc,sci.environment,talk.environment From: klaes@verga.enet.dec.com (Larry Klaes) Subject: Light Pollution (Space Ads) Information Keywords: light pollution, advertisements Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 20:45:36 GMT Dave Crawford (crawford@noao.edu), Executive Director of the International Dark-Sky Association (IDA), sent me information on where you can write in regards to the proposed ""Billboards in the Sky"" and asked me to post it: Karen Brown Center for the Study of Commercialism 1875 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20009-5728 U.S.A. Telephone: 202-797-7080 Fax: 202-265-4954 Please note that I have no involvement whatsoever with the CSC. Larry Klaes klaes@verga.enet.dec.com or - ...!decwrl!verga.enet.dec.com!klaes or - klaes%verga.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com or - klaes%verga.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net ""All the Universe, or nothing!"" - H. G. Wells EJASA Editor, Astronomical Society of the Atlantic ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Re: Vandalizing the Sky Date: 10 May 93 21:51:11 GMT Distribution: sci Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] X-Posted-From: algol.jsc.nasa.gov F.Baube[tm] (flb@flb.optiplan.fi) wrote: [...] : That's roughly akin to saying let's let Anaconda strip-mine : the Grand Canyon so that strip-mining can boldly go where no : strip mining technology has gone before .. because after all, : mining means profits, and profits mean technological advance- : ment, and technogical advancement means prosperity, and pros- : perity means happiness, and so to hell with the Grand Canyon .. Space advertisement in LOW Earth Orbit is very short term -- on the order of a few years before the orbit decays. (Higher orbits last longer.) Advertisers will certainly be aware of the environmental aspects of their advertising. Fred's argument is roughly akin to saying that it's bad to cut down trees, so we shouldn't advertise in newspapers. Think that through, Fred. Picture this: Our space billboard is a LARGE inflatable structure, filled with ""bio-degradable"" foam instead of gas. It scoops up space debris as it orbits, thus CLEANING the space environment and bringing you The Pause That Refreshes at the same time. Because of the large drag coefficient, it will de-orbit -- safely burning up -- within a year. Embedded in the foam structure is a small re-entry vehicle, which does not burn up during entry. It contains the electronics and propulsion system (which may be refurbished and re-used) as well as space science experiments proposed and built by high school students in advertiser-sponsored science fairs. Advertisers buy time on the billboard, whose surface is made up of tiny mirrors controlled by the avionics package. The avionics can reconfigure the mirrors to reflect different messages at different parts of the globe. Clever programming allows different languages to every country. During orbital night, the mirrors turn perpendicular to the surface, and small lights are revealed. The lights spell out messages for all to see. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 ""HERE MEN FROM THE PLANET EARTH FIRST SET FOOT UPON THE MOON JULY 1969, A.D. WE CAME IN PEACE FOR ALL MANKIND."" ",14 "Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach Dave Davis writes: > Let my state my point as provocatively as possible. :-) > After going through several study Bibles, I'm leaning heavily towards >the > assertion that _Sirach_ ('The Wisdom of Ben Sira' or 'Ecclesiasticus') > is directly referenced by _James_ - in fact, I think > Sirach is more directly referenced by James than _Job_ or _Ruth_ is > referenced in any NT verse I've seen. Good point. The New Testament does not quote Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ruth, Job, Ecclesiastes, or Song of Songs, just as it does not quote from the Deuterocanon. But if the non-quotation of the former does not disqualify them, neither does the non-quotation of the later. And the Wisodm of Solomon was quite clearly an influence on St. Paul, especially in the letter to the Romans (cf especially Romans 1.18-32 and Wisdom 13-14). [stuff deleted] >I think everyone would agree that principles that cannot be >consistently applied are not very useful as principles. >So, if we are to exclude them (not accord them the authority of > Scripture) we would appear to require other reasons. What might these > reasons be? Tradition (always a fav. with Episcop.) ? Tradition is >equivocal > on this subject. Sirach, I believe, is in Vaticanus & Sinaiticus > I don't know if it is listed in the Muratorian canon > (the oldest list I know of). Sirach (and the others) are discussed > by the Fathers, as Scripture, but not unanimously. True. Not all accepted them as Scripture, though niether were all the books of the New Testament so accepted, which puts to the lie the whole argument of the books being excluded because they were debated and not universally accepted. Hebrews, the Apocalypse, 2 Peter, Esther, and others were debated at various times, but eventually retained. As for the Codexes you mention, both Vaticanus and Sinaitcus include the Deuterocanon, bothe of the New and Old Testaments, and Vaticanus (I think) inlcudes 1 Clement, the Shepard of Hermas, and the Epistle of Baranabas. As for the Muratorian Canon, it deals with the New Testament only, though it is very valuable in its witness to those books. > My interim conclusion is that Protestant exclusion of > (at least one of) these writings is one of those 'traditions > of men' one hears of so often. They were excluded during the > Reformation, and that appears to be the reason many people > continue to exclude them. >Any takers? I can be reasonable. (If all else fails :-) >Show me where I'm wrong. You're not wrong! It is a `tradition of men' to exlcude them, as I will explain below. ""That nothing be read in the Church under the nmae of Divine Scripture, except the canonical Scriptures, and the canoncial Scriptures are - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, Four books of Kingdoms [being 1&2 Samuel and 1&2 Kings], Two books of Paralpomenon [being 1&2 Chronicles], Job, the Psalter of David, the Five books of Solomon [being Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom of Solomon, and [misatributed to him] the Wisdom of Jesus son of Sirach], The books of the Twelve (Minor) Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah [being Jeremiah, the Lamentations, Baruch, and the Letter, all of which were formerly counted as one], Ezekiel, Daniel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Two books of Ezra [being Ezra and Nehemiah], Two books of Maccabees. And of the New Testament: Four books of the Gospel, One book of the Acts of the Apostles, Thirteen letters of Paul the Apostle, One Letter of the same to the Hebrews, two of Peter the Apostle, Three of John, One of the Apostle Jude, One of the Apostle James, One book of the Apocalypse of John."" -Council of Hippo, Statute 36, (393 AD) This same list was promulgated again at the Third Council of Carthage (397 AD), and at the Sixth Council of Carthage (419 AD) - at which council the same list was enumerated with the words ""Because we have recieved from the Fathers that these are the books to be read in the Church."" Which ought to quiet those who assert ""in the name of Holy Scripture we do understand those books of whose authority there was never any doubt in the Church,"" as the Episcopal Church does in removing the Deuterocanon from the realm of Scripture. (Though the Episcopalians hold them in high regard and read them in the Church, they are not counted as Scripture by them, and may not be used to prove dogma. The Lutherans hold out similarly.) Earlier mention of the so-called Apocrypha as divine scripture can also be found, and below I inlcude only a portion of the quotes calling it divine scripture that could be found among the writings of the Fathers. ""And this is the reason why the Law of the old Testament is reckoned as consisting of twenty-two books: so that they may correspond to the number of letters [in the Hebrew alphabet].... It is to be noted also that by adding to these Tobias and Judith, there are twenty-four books, corresponding to the number of letters used by the Greeks."" -St. Hillary of Poitiers, ""Commentaries on the Psalms,"" prologue, 15 (365 AD) ""The twenty-two books according to the Hebrews are .... Jeremiah, with Lamentations and the Letter, reckoned as one .... and [also] there is Maccabees."" -Origen, ""Commentaries on the Psalms,"" Psalm 1 (245 AD) ""Divine Scripture, addressing itself to those who love themselves and to the boastful .... says most excellently [Baruch 3.16-19 follows]."" -St. Clement of Alexandria, ""The Instuctor of Children,"" 2, 3, 36, 3, (203 AD) ""....I learned accurately the books of the Old Testament ... Proverbs of Solomon, and also Wisdom ..."" -St. Melito of Sardes, fragment found in Eusebius' ""History of the Church,"" and dating from crica 177 AD, Book 4, 26, 14 ""It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. The list of the Old Testament .... Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus, one book .... Tobit, one book .... Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books."" -St. Damasus I, Pope, ""The Decree of Damsus,"" section 2 (382 AD) I would think this enough, though more can be shown, that the Church has always accepted the deutero-canon, though parts have been disputed by various persons. For if disputes involving the New Testament deutero-canon does not disqulaify those books (i.e. Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2&3 John, Jude, Revelation) in Protestant eyes, than neither should it disqulaify the Old Testament books. And I must point out that the Jews only drew up their canon in 90 AD, 60 years after the founding of the Christian Religion upon the Cross. Why should we adhere to a canon that was drawn up by the faithless, in reaction to the Chrsitian use of the Greek Septuagint, which includes the deutero-canon? As early as 150 AD, St. Justin had already accused the Jews of mutilating the Canon of Scripture by their removal of certain books. Protestants apparently prefer to think that God's revelation was limited by a decree of the Jews in the ordering of their (the Jews') faithless canon, and that he could not use other people, like the Apostles, in drawing up the canon. The Apostles were most certain users of the Septuagint, as some 80% of the Old Testament quotes use the wording of the Septuagint, and not the Hebrew. And the Septuagint includes the Deuterocanon. ",15 "Re: Eternity of Hell (was Re: Hell) In article dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe) writes: [insert deletion of unnecessary quote] >Why is it that we have this notion that God takes some sort of pleasure >from punishing people? The purpose of hell is to destroy the devil and >his angels. First of all, God does not take any sort of pleasure from punishing people. He will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and compassion on whom he will have compassion (Ex 33:19). However, if he enjoyed punishing people and sending them to hell, then why would he send Jesus to ""seek and save that which was lost"" (Luke 19:10)? > >To the earlier poster who tried to support the eternal hell theory with >the fact that the fallen angels were not destroyed, remember the Bible >teaches that God has reserved them until the day of judgement. Their >judgement is soon to come. > >Let me suggest this. Maybe those who believe in the eternal hell theory >should provide all the biblical evidence they can find for it. Stay away >from human theories, and only take into account references in the bible. > You asked for it. 2 Peter 2:4-ff talks about how those who are ungodly are punished. Matthew 25:31-46 is also very clear that those who do not righteous in God's eyes will be sent to hell for eternity. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 states that those who cause trouble for the disciples ""will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord"". 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 talks about those who refuse to love the truth being condemned. Revelation 21:6-8 talks about the difference between those who overcomes and those who do not. Those who do not, listed in verse 8, will be in the ""fiery lake of burning sulfur"". Revelation 14:9-12 gives the indication that those who follow the beast ""will be tormented with burning sulfur"" and there being ""no rest day or night"" for them because of it. Psalm 9:17: ""The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that forget God."" I think those should be sufficient to prove the point. >Darius Joe Fisher [In the following I'm mostly playing ""devil's advocate"". I'm not advocating either position. My concern is that people understand that it's possible to see these passages in different ways. It's possible to see eternal destruction as just that -- destruction. Rev often uses the term ""second death"". The most obvious understanding of that would seem to be final extinction. The problem is that the NT speaks both of eternal punishment and of second death. I.e. it uses terms that can be understood either way. My concern here is not to convince you of one view or the other, but to help people understand that there's a wide enough variety of images that it's possible to understand them either way. As Tom Albrecht commented, the primary point is to do our best to keep people out of the eternal fire, whatever the details. (To make things more interesting, Luke 20:35 implies that the damned don't get resurrected at all. Presumably they just stay dead. -- yes I'm aware that it's possible to understand this passage in a non-literal way.) 2 Peter 2:4-ff is talking about angels, and talks about holding them in hell until the final judgement. This isn't eternal punishement. Matthew 25:31-46 talks about sending the cursed into eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. The fact that the fire is eternal doesn't mean that people will last in its flames forever. Particularly interesting is the comment about the fire having been prepared for the devil and his angels. Rev 20 and 21 talk about the eternal fire as well. They say that the beast and the false prophet will be tormented forever in it. When talking about people being thrown into it (20:13-14), it is referred to as ""the second death"". This sounds more like extinction than eternal torment. Is is possible that the fire has different effects on supernatural entities such as the devil, and humans? 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 similarly, what is ""everlasting destruction""? This is not necessarily eternal torment. This one can clearly be understood either way, but I think it's at least possible to think that everlasting is being used to contrast the kind of destruction that can occur in this life with the final destruction that occurs in eternity. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 again talks about destruction. Revelation 21:6-8: see comment above Revelation 14:9-12 is probably the best of the quotes. Even there, it doesn't explicitly say that the people suffer forever. It says that the smoke (and presumably the fire) is eternal, and that there is no respite from it. But it doesn't say that the people are tormented forever. Psalm 9:17: I don't see that it says anything relevant to this issue. --clh] ",15 "Re: Good Reasons to Wave at each other arturo@informix.com (Arturo Vega) wrote: > > maven@mavenry.altcit.eskimo.com (Norman Hamer) writes: > > ...< >... > > 2) It keeps you in the habit of watching really carefully for bikes when > >you're IN a cage. This is a Good Thing. > > Has anyone else ever caught themselves waving at oncoming motorcycle riders > while in a car? Sure. It has caused my wife to conclude that I am totally insane, not just partially:-} Usually I just lift the left hand off the wheel and wave thru the windshield. Damn near the same motion as on the bike:-} tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil ""Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."" --gene spafford, 1992 ",8 "Re: Krillean Photography In article <1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org>, gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik) writes: |> In article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes: |> |> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident |> |> in |> |> the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps. |> |> |> |> Bill from oz |> |> |> |> |> Bill, |> No flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian |> photography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple, |> it takes pictures of your aura. |> |> |> -- |> Greg |> |> -- Be still, be silent...the rest is easy. -- |> Greg, No flame intended, but I think you just missed one of the rare attempts of humor in sci.skeptic. ""Krillean"" against ""Kirilian"". Get it? ;-) BTW, I think you're a bit of base yourself, since, to my knowledge, the electromagnetic field around a stone is rather abscent. But still, a stone has a nice ""aura"" on the Kirilian photographs. Don't remember excactly, but ""corona discharge"" I think is a more fitting expression than aura. Think you'll find something on this in the skeptic-faq. Cheers, Jostein ",13 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes: >In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >>I'm mostly angry why the Davidians didn't spare the children the >>awful suffering. See my other posting, I'm in a bad temper. >Well, dozens of children left the compound between the original BATF assualt >and the FBI assault 7 weeks later. So if Koresh really wanted to kill >children, why did he let so many go? Word is that the ones he let go were not his. --- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------Visit the SOUNDING BOARD BBS +1 214 596 2915, a Wildcat! BBS------- ""Foot"" the Bill: let's get a new President. Patrick Taylor, Ericsson Network Systems THX-1138 exuptr@exu.ericsson.se ""Don't let the .se fool you"" ",19 "Re: Radar detector DETECTORS? ragee@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (Randy Agee) writes: >It used to be that the only way the law could be enforced was for >an officer to actually see the radar detector. Not any more! Many >law enforcement agencies are now using radar detector detectors. >Right, a super sensitive receiver that is capable of picking up RF >from the radar detector itself. My first reaction was ""no way!"" >But, guess again, these little buggers really work and the police >are writing citations right and left for people using radar >detectors. One news story quoted an officer as saying that he had >found the radar detector in all of the cars he stopped except one, >and he could never figure out where it was - but he knew it was >there. This tends to make one assume there are few false arrest. From what I understand about radar dectectors all they are is a passive device much like the radio in your car. They work as an antenna picking up that radar signals that the radar gun sends out. Therefore there would be no way of detecting a radar detector any more than there would be of detecting whether some one had a radio in their car. Neal Howland nhowland@matt.ksu.ksu.edu ",12 "Re: The arrogance of Christians I'd like to share my thoughts on this topic of ""arrogance of Christians"" and look forward to any responses. In my encounters with Christians, I find myself dismayed by their belief that their faith is total truth. According to them, their beliefs come from the Bible and the bible is the word of God and God is truth - thus they know the truth. This stance makes it difficult to discuss other faiths with them and my own hesitations about Christianity because they see no other way. Their way is the 'truth.' But I see their faith arising from a willful choice to believe a particular way. That choice is part faith and part reason, but it seems to me a choice. My discussions with some Christians remind me of schoolyard discussions when I was in grade school: A kid would say, ""All policemen are jerks!"" I'd ask, ""How do you know?"" ""Because my daddy told me so!"" ""How do you know you're daddy is right?"" ""He says he's always right!"" Well the argument usually stops right there. In the end, aren't we all just kids, groping for the truth? If so, do we have the authority to declare all other beliefs besides our own as false? ------------- This is only my third time browsing through this newsgroup. I apologize if I'm covering tired old ground. Some of the discussions on this topic have piqued my interest and I welcome any comments. | Louis J. Kim --- _ O PH:512-522-5556 | | Southwest Research Institute --- ,/ |\/' FAX:512-522-3042 | | Post Office Drawer 28510 ---- |__ lkim@swri.edu | | San Antonio, TX 78228-0510 ---- __/ \ 76450.2231@compuserve.com | -- [I'm sort of mystified about how a Christian might respond to this. I can understand criticisms of Christianity that say there's not enough evidence to believe it, or that there's just as good evidence for other religions. I don't agree, but clearly there are plenty of intelligent people who don't find the evidence convincing. But that doesn't seem to be your point. Rather, you seem upset that people who believe Christianity is true also believe that things which contradict it are false. This suggests a model of spiritual things that's rather different than the Christian one. It sounds more like an existentialist view, where people choose what value to follow, but there's no actual independent spiritual reality, and so no way to say that a specific choice is in some unique sense right. This sort of model -- with modifications of one sort or another -- may be appropriate for some religions. But Christianity is in its essense a ""historical"" religion. That is, it's based on the concept that there are actual spiritual entities out there, that one of them has intervened in history in specific ways, and that we see evidence of that in history. In the ""mundane"" world, we are not free to choose how things work. When we drop something, it falls (aside from well-defined situations where it doesn't). The Christian concept is that spiritual matters, there is also an actual external reality. I hope we're all honest enough not to claim that we have perfect understanding. But while we may not think we know everything, we are confident that we know some things. And that implies that we think things that contradict them are false. I don't see how else we could proceed. This needn't result in arrogance. I'm certainly interested in talking with people of other religions. They may have things to teach me, and even if they don't, I respect them as fellow human beings. But it's got to be possible to respect people and also think that on some matters they are wrong. Maybe even disasterously wrong. --clh] ",15 "Re: Where can I get a New York taxi? wharfie (wrat@unisql.UUCP) wrote: : In article almanb@sr.hp.com (Bob Alman) writes: : > ""hose"" h-o-s-e : Dork. d-o-r-k. Oh, really? Here's what you posted earlier in another thread. Before you thrash others for making simple mistakes or flaunt your wonderful ""vi skill"", think about how you make them feel as well as how you look (you spelled it right). ;-} For years you have assaulted others with offensive language, etc. From the content of many of your posts, you appear to have a lot of useful information to share with people, but it gets overshadowed when you come across as an abusive smart-ass. wharfie (wrat@unisql.UUCP) wrote: : In article marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Z auberer) writes: : > : > Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they : >would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter, : >wider and slightly banked. : Well, that's news. Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas highways : was 75. The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70. There : were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana. : >east becoming hidden by trees after about 1,000 ft and continued to the : >left strait north. I wanted to turn north, checked the south lane, rolled : ""straight"". s-t-r-a-i-g-h-t ",7 "Looking for AUTOCAD .DXF file parser Hello... Does anyone know of any C or C++ function libraries in the public domain that assist in parsing an AUTOCAD .dxf file? Please e-mail. Thanks, -- -- jogle geigel@seas.gwu.edu ",1 "Re: How to detect use of an illegal cipher? could someone repost or send to me via email the original posting of the Clipper Chip press release. thanks andrew kriger hampshire college agk@neural.hampshire.edu -- Andrew Kriger ""Three may keep a secret Hampshire College if two of them are dead"" agk@neural.hampshire.edu ---Benjamin Franklin ",11 "Re: Jack Morris In article <1993Apr20.004746.13007@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes: > >To say that one player is better than another is to be able to say ab- >solutely that player A's team would have played better with player B >in their lineup. Sheer speculation. Impossible to ascertain. There are very few disciplines where 100% certainty is necessary to state something as fact. Baseball is not one of them. Therefore I can say that I know Clemens was better than Morris last year, and Larkin was better than Griffin. No, I can't ascertain this. I can't prove it. But I'm not required to do so. And since you obviously feel that such threads are meaningless, why don't you simply stay out of them? -Valentine (No, I'm not going to be cordial. Roger Maynard is a complete and total dickhead. Send me e-mail if you insist on details.) ",9 "Contax camera system for sale This is posted for a friend who doesn't have net access...you can send replies to me, but I'll be out of my office all next week, so don't expect a response until at least 4/27! For sale: Contax camera system Includes: Contax 139 quartz SLR body 50mm f1.7 Zeiss (!) Planna Lens 135mm f2.8 Yashica Lens Medium-sized hard case All items are in exceptional condition. Asking price: $175 for all items listed above. The seller is attempting to sell the lot as a set, but you can negotiate that with him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dick Joltes joltes@husc.harvard.edu Hardware & Networking Manager, Computer Services joltes@husc.bitnet Harvard University Science Center ""Any woman that you become extremely attracted to will immediately tell you that you're the best friend a woman could ever have."" -- David Crist ",6 "Re: SJ Mercury's reference to Fundamentalist Christian parents In article 28120@athos.rutgers.edu, dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes: > ""Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist > Christian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. He once was > >Were the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with >""Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten..."", my face would >be red with anger over the injustice done to my Mexican family members and Although I'm neither Fundamentalist nor Evangelical, I have often noticed this trend in the media. In short, it is permissable to bash Fundamentalists. No need to substitue a nationality such as ""Mexican..."" try simply to substitute a different religion ""...raised by Muslim parents,"" or ""...raised by Jewish parents..."" The paper simply would not do this. ",15 "Re: Caps moving ????? Why would Pollin want to move the Caps, because I think he owns the Cap Centre. I know they don't sell out all of their games, but they draw a lot more than the Bullets. If you had the situation that Abe had, would you move if you were guaranteed that anyone who went to the games would have to park at the stadium, because there has been nothing within a half mile, until the recent construction in the area. Can they win a game in OT again. Rich -- ""You've read the hat, now see the movie."" -Imus in the morning ""A blurb? You're a blurb!"" -Seinfeld ",10 "Re: Egypt call for fighting fundamentalists, objects to pro-Bosnian steps In article benali@alcor.concordia.ca ( ILYESS B. BDIRA ) writes: > >> ISLAMABAD (UPI) -- Representatives from 51 Islamic nations were > >>considering Tuesday a request from Bosnia-Herzegovina for $260 million > >>and weapons to fight the Bosnian Serbs. > >.... > >> The only commitment so far is $20 million from Saudi Arabia, which > > > >Thanks Saudia for the pocket change. > >Compare that to the ""Liberation of Q8"" and to what they gave to some > >weird causes.. O.K at least they are paying. Damned if you do and Damned if you don't! > > > >>has already donated $100 million to Bosnia-Herzegovina. > >> Sources on the political committee said delegates were in agreement > >>on the need to help the Bosnian Muslims, but the request for weapons had > >>delayed a decision. > >> ``It may interpreted as violating the United Nations' embargo on > >>supplying arms to Bosnia,'' warned Egyptian Foreign Minister Amer > >>Moussa. > > > >Mr. Amr Moussa was not worried about International law when he tortured > >to death many of his citizens and when he shot people praying in a Mosque, > >or when he is causing trouble to his neighbor just becasue the CIA says so. > >Why doesn't he just shut up, he won't be involved in any Bosnian effort > >anyway, or does the west have to be represented even in an Islamic conference? Just for the record, Egyptian troops were one of the first to be stationed there. I can't remember the exact date but it was late last year. In fact, they lost at least one man there as far as I know. ---barrak ",17 "WIN/DOS Misc. Software Help me make money for a new modem $180.00 takes it ALL ***** SHIPPING NOT INCLUDED IN PRICE ***** * All original documentation & disks are include. Some software unregistered, others will have letter for transfer of ownership. * Will sell software seperately, purchase must be greater than $30.00. * Purchases over $60.00 get choice of two (2) software selections with ""*"" footnote W - Windows 3.x version D - DOS version R - Registered (letter of transfer) U - Unregistered * - Special offer MS Windows 3.0 MS Windows 3.0 Resource Kit (bound ed.). . . . . . . . . . $ 15.00 WR Norton Desktop for Windows 1.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 15.00 WR MS Excel 4.0. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 70.00 WR Gateway 2000 version (all docs & disks MS) This is the real thing, it only shipped with my computer!! 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Thanks! --- þ VbReader V1.4 þ*** BUSH Presidency ABORTED - RECOVERY Hopeful!!! *** ",6 " ================ ------------------------------------------------------------ |||||||| SciP+Fi ction set in C-Sci\programming environs list by Ian Feldman ..........:::::: ---------------------------------------- ---- -------------- Written by:_____ _Book Title_; publisher'year, pp v2.7 ISBN ----------- =============================== ------- ==== ############## John Brunner _Shockwave Rider_; Ray/Ballantine'84 $5_______ 0-345-32431-5 ""cracking the net to free information for the common good"" Pat Cadigan _Mindplayers_; (""an absolute must-have"" --Bruce Sterling) Pat Cadigan _Synners_; Bantam $5; (virtual reality)_______ 0-553-28254-9 Orson Scott Card _Lost Boys_; Harper Collins'92; (programmer and family \ encounters strange events in North Carolina) Denise Danks _Frame Grabber_; St.Martin's, hrdb [GBP]17____ 0-312-08786-1 computer-illiterate journalix tracks down murderer via BBS Toni Dwiggins _Interrupt_; (""a techno-mystery set in Silicon Valley"") Michael Frayn _The Tin Men_; Fontana, (""inspired lunacy"" but out of print) David Gerrold _When HARLIE was One Release 2.0_; Bantam'88__ 0-553-26465-6 William Gibson _Count Zero_; (computers as gods, part of a trilogy) William Gibson _Mona Lisa Overdrive_; (virtual reality)______ 0-553-28174-7 William Gibson _Burning Chrome_; (cyberpunk short stories)___ 0-441-08934-8 William Gibson _Neuromancer_; (industrial espionage)_________ 0-441-56959-5 (author guilty of inventing the cyberpunk genre) James Hogan _The Genesis Machine_; Del Ray'87 $3__________ 0-345-34756-0 James Hogan _Thrice Upon A Time_; (""time travel for information"") James Hogan _The Two Faces of Tomorrow_; Del Ray'79_______ 0-345-27517-9 ultimate test of AI-OS by letting it run a spacelab -> amok Stanislaw Lem _His Master's Voice_; (failed attempt to decode ET-message) Tom Maddox _HALO_ (""remarkable SF of robots & artificial intelligence"") George RR Martin _Nightflyers_; Tor Books'87___________________ 0-8125-4564-8 R A MacAvoy _Tea with the Black Dragon_; (""mystery around a computer \ fraud situation; computing bits ring true."") Vonda N McIntyre _Steelcollar Worker_; in Analog Nov'92; (blue-collar VR) Marge Piercy _Body of Glass_; Penguin'92, 584pp; (data piracy++) review \ finger ""books=Body_of_Glass%danny""@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au ---> David Pogue _Hard-Drive_; Diamond'93 $5, 304pp____________ 1-55773-884-X (*programmer dies in accident, leaves no documentation \ behind; software firms fight for market share with virii; \ ""right out of the pages of MacWorld"" --Steve Brock) Richard Powers _The Gold Bug Variations_; Morrow '91, (famous molecular \ scientist ponders on the ?why? of love, life in EDP dept.) Paul Preuss _Human Error_; (nanotech computer infects brain-damaged kid) Thomas J Ryan _The Adolescence of P1_; ACE'79_______________ 0-671-55970-2 (runaway AI experiment takes over mainframes, wrecks havoc) Bruce Sterling _The Difference Engine_; (with W Gibson) Bantam'91; finger \ ""books=The_Difference_Engine%danny""@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au Cliff Stoll _The Cuckoo's Egg_; (non-fiction but reads like one); review FTP ; /mac/tidbits/1991/tb048_18-Mar-91.etx Tom T Thomas _ME_; (""smart computers"") Vernor Vinge _Across Realtime_; Baen Books_____________ [several titles \ Vernor Vinge _Tatja Grimm's World_; Baen Books__________ soon available \ Vernor Vinge _The Witling_; Baen Books___________________ as Millennium \ Vernor Vinge _Threats and Other Promises_; Baen Books_____ Books in UK] Vernor Vinge _True Names & Other Dangers_; Baen Books'87___ 0-671-65363-6 Vernor Vinge _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Tor Books, 640p, $6___ 0-8125-1528-5 (""essentially about the future of the Internet"") John Varley _Press Enter_; (""Short story, gruesome, but good"") Ed Yourdon _Silent Witness_; (""Computer crime caper story; gumshoe \ has to explain intricacies of computer OS to girlfriend"") Herbert W Franke _Das Zentrum der Milchstrasse_; (""the center of the galaxy"") Herbert W Franke _Letzte Programmierer_; (""'the last programmer'; \ I do NOT mean Frank Herbert!"") Emil Zopfi _Computer Fuer 1001 Nacht_; Limmat Verlag, Switzerland Emil Zopfi _Jede Minute Kostet 33 Franken_; (last 4 in German; last 2 \ ""set in the commercial computing world of the early 70's"") ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- current version of this list via `finger ""scip+fi%danny""@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au' ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- compiled 930424; % mail -s ""additions/ comments/ updates --->"" ianf@random.se ================ ============================================= ============== Statistical breakdown -------------------------- +-- --------------------- SciP+Fiction -----+------------+------------------+ | # nominations /title ~~~~~~~~~~~~ /author # books nominated | +-- =========== ----------------------------+ =========== ================= + | 5 _The Adolescence of P-1_; Ryan | Vinge 10 6 titles | | 5 _Neuromancer_; Gibson | Gibson 10 5 titles | | 4 _True Names and Other Dangers_; Vinge | Ryan 5 _The Adolescence..| | 4 _Shockwave Rider_; Brunner | Brunner 4 _Shockwave Rider_ | | 4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E was One_; Gerrold | Gerrold 4 _When H.A.R.L.I.E.| | 4 _A Fire Upon The Deep_; Vinge | Hogan 3 3 titles | | 2 _Threats and Other Promises_; Vinge | Lem 3 _Fiasco_HMV_Solar.| +-- ----------------------------------------+ ----------- ----------------- + | # total nominations: 85; authors: 27; female: 5?6; sent in by: 42 readers | +======== ================ ============ ============ =======================+ Contributions by [unsorted FIFO]: ---------------------------------------- From: sbrock@teal.csn.org (Steve Brock) From: ""John Lacey"" From: malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy) From: thom kevin gillespie From: Paul Christopher Workman From: kellys@code3.code3.com (Kelly Sorensen) From: whughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (William W. Hughes) From: North_TJ@cc.curtin.edu.au (Tim North) From: LORETI@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Maurizio Loreti) From: Stephen Hart From: Duane F Marble From: Matthias Neeracher From: Wolfram Wagner From: webb@tsavo.HKS.COM (Peter Webb) From: setzer@ssd.comm.mot.com (Thomas Setzer) From: kevles@acf3.NYU.EDU (Beth Kevles) From: dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa) From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) From: hartman@uLogic.com (Richard Hartman) From: Vernor Vinge From: Paul Lebeau From: ""Lawrence Rounds"" From: phydeaux@cumc.cornell.edu (David Weingart) From: chgs02@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (By learning+courtesy) From: Rowan Fairgrove From: peterc@suite.sw.oz.au.sw.oz.au (Peter Chubb,x114,6982322,3982735) From: Gara Pruesse From: russell@alpha3.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Russell Schulz) From: ahm@spatula.rent.com (Andreas Meyer) From: jon@cs.washington.edu (Jon Jacky) From: eugene@nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) From: ""A.M.MAIR"" From: mengel@dcdmwm.fnal.gov (Marc Mengel) From: Roger Scowen From: kevino@clbooks.com (Kevin Oster -- System Administrator) From: chavey@cs.wisc.edu (Darrah Chavey) From: Vonda McIntyre From: Bruce Sterling From: ""Scott Thomas Yabiku"" From: Thomas Adshead From: Paul Andrews <76050.161@CompuServe.COM> ===== ======================================= ---------> MUCHO thanks to all! __Ian ""The Other internet Worm[tm]"" Feldman ",1 "Re: How many read sci.space? In article <1qjs1j$306@access.digex.net> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: > > >In the old days, their used to be Arbitron stats' that analyzed >the readership and posting volumes by group and user. > >They were available from UUNET. That's how you check the >readership of Sci.space, not some stupid unscientific attempt >to flood the newsgroup. > >I have abetter idea. WHy don't we all reply directly to the >origanator of this post, and tell him we read sci.space ;-) > > >pat Sigh. I try to make a little joke, I try to inject some humour here and what happens? In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn: ""I say, that was a _joke_, son."" I thought that the bit about McElwaine, not to mention the two smileys, would indicate to even the most humour impaired that I was JOKING. Sigh. (And will everyone who pat's suggestion (thanks bunches, pat) *please* stop sending me email.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | I shot a man just to watch him die; | Ross Borden | | I'm going to Disneyland! | rborden@ra.uvic.ca | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",14 "Leafs win! (thank you Potvin) It's about time the boys got it together!! They were outworked and outplayed by the Wings in the first two games. But Burns must have kicked their behinds cause they sure came out in full gear (or is that high gear?) in game 3. Except for a 10-15 minute stretch in the 2nd period, they outskated and outworked the Wings. Please don't flame this statement 'cos you know it's true! I have to admit that goaltending was the key. Potvin kept the Leafs ahead during the sleepy stretch the Leafs went through in the 2nd. He also kept the rebounds to a minimum, something that cost Cheveldae 2 goals. Clark even looked like he had stopped moping (first star!), although I still don't know why he was so flat in games 1 and 2. If the Leafs play the same style and can keep the pace they had in game 3, they may actually have a chance of winning this series (a slim chance, but a chance....I'm no RM.....where is he anyways? haha). Barfly ",10 "Re: Good Reasons to Wave at each other mbeaving@bnr.ca (Michael Beavington) writes: >The down side is that when I'm in my cage, I have on numerous occasions >slammed my hand into the rolled up window in an effort to wave at >a passing biker. Ow. Shouldn't this be in the DWI thread? ",8 "Re: Earwax In , dated 29 Apr 93 15:43:10 GMT, lmtra@uts.amdahl.com (Leon Traister) writes: > stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes: > > >What is the healthiest way to deal with earwax? Should one just leave > >it in your ear and not mess with it, or should you clean it out > >every so often? Can cleaning it out damage your eardrums? > >Are there any tubes in your ear that might get blocked? > > Assuming that the wax is causing hearing loss, congestion or popping > in the ears, you can try some cautious tepid water irrigation with a > bulb syringe, but it is awkward to do for oneself and may not work or > may even make things worse. (My wife would disagree, she does it > successfully every six months or so.) In any case DO NOT ATTEMPT > ANYTHING WITH Q-TIPS!!! I'll agree with your wife. While I was a student, I had doctors remove rather surprising amounts of wax from my ears by flushing them out a couple times, usually because they were examining my ears for some other reason, and said something like ""Gee, you've got a lot of wax in there"". In my case, removal of these large wax buildups did noticeably improve my hearing, and I've since gotten in the same habit as your wife of flushing them out with warm water from a little rubber bulb every few months. You can buy little bulbs together with ear drops for this express purpose from the drug store - I don't notice that the drops accomplish much of anything. One question I do have - a doctor who flushed out my ears once also advocated a drop of rubbing alcohol in them afterwards to flush out any remaining trapped water - said he told swimmers to do this after swimming, too. It works, but it stings like the devil, so I've always been content to let any water in my ears from swimming or flushing them out figure out how to get out by itself if shaking my head a few times won't do the trick. Any comments? ",13 "Re: centrifuge In article rjf@lzsc.lincroftnj.ncr.com (51351[efw]-Robert Feddeler(MT4799)T343) writes: >: Could somebody explain to me what a centrifuge is and what it is >: used for? I vaguely remembre it being something that spins test tubes >: around really fast but I cant remember why youd want to do that? >Purely recreational. They get bored sitting in that >rack all the time. No, this is wrong. The purpose is to preserve the substances in the tubes longer by creating relativistic speeds and thus time dilatation. Of course, by slowing the subjective time of the test tubes they get less bored, which is probably what you were thinking of. -- David Rind rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu ",13 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Terry) asks: >Is it possible to do a ""wheelie"" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive? ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) replies: >No Mike. It is imposible due to the shaft effect. The centripital effects >of the rotating shaft counteract any tendency for the front wheel to lift >off the ground. Ugh! Who gave you guys your login names? Blech |^P John obviously never saw me ride a buddy's CX500, known as ""Torque Monster."" I could pull the most beautiful skyshots with that bike! Unfortunately, the owner saw me do one. Once. I never get to ride TM again... ;^( Mr. Bill -- + Bill Leavitt, #224 + '82 CBX ""White Lightning"", '82 GS850G ""Suzibago"" + + leavitt@cs.umd.edu + '76 CJ360 ""Little Honda"", '68 Lone Star ""Sick Leave"" + + DoD AMA ICOA NIA + '69 Impala convertible ""The Incredible Hulk"", others + + ""Hmmm, I thought bore and stroke *was* the technique!"" Michael Bain, #757 + ",8 "Re: New Apple Ergo-Mouse In article , geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Thumper) writes: >In <5APR199312491648@utkvx.utk.edu> nwcs@utkvx.utk.edu (Schizophrenia means never being alone) writes: > >>Does anyone know how to open up the Apple Ergo-Mouse (ADB Mouse II)? Mine >>lives near a cat (true, really...) and picks up her fur. From what I can tell, >>it looks like Apple welded it shut. > > >By rotating the plate around the mouse ball counter-clockwise you can open >the mouse and clean it. It isn't as obvious as the Desktop Bus Mouse I but >it opens quite easily once you see what has to be done. > >-Geoff >-- >geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business > > If you don't vote... you don't count. I think the original poster meant opening the mouse, not just releasing the ball and getting to the rollers. I found that on the original ADB mouse, sometimes unscrewing the two halves allowed for easier cleaning. If the original poster has his answer, I'll ask: How do you open the new ergonomic mouse? By open, I mean split the two halves to get at the guts. It isn't obvious to me based on the 5 minute look I spent with one at the office yesterday as there are no visible screw heads. Mark ",4 "Re: Krillean Photography In article <1rgnn6$lli@fnnews.fnal.gov> dh@fncrd6.fnal.gov (don husby) writes: > >Poor person's Kirlian Photography (try this at home) > >1. Hold your hand up to a cold window. >2. Look closely at the stunning corona effects around > your fingertips. >3. Remove hand (from window) and observe after image. >4. Invent crackpot theory to explain the effect. Advanced Kirlian Photography (try this at home, too) 1. Get a camera 2. Have your subject face you with his/her back to the sun. 3. Take photo 4. Observe the glow behind their silhouetted image on the photo 5. Invent crackpot theory to explain the effect -- John Mechalas ""I'm not an actor, but mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu I play one on TV."" Aero Engineering, Purdue University #include disclaimer.h ",13 "Re: Could this be a migraine? GB> From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) GB> >(I am excepting migraine, which is arguably neurologic). GB> I hope you meant ""inarguably"". Given the choice, I would rather argue . No arguments about migranous aura; in fact, current best evidence is that aura is intrinsicially neuronal (a la spreading depression of Leao) rather than vascular (something causing vasoconstriction and secondary neuronal ischemia). Migraine without aura, however, is a fuzzier issue. There do not seem to be objectively measurable changes in brain function. The Copenhagen mafia (Lauritzen, Olesen, et al) have done local CBF studies on migraine without aura, and (unlike migraine with aura, but like tension-type) they found no changes in LCBF. From one (absurd) perspective, *all* pain is neurologic, because in the absence of a nervous system, there would not be pain. From another (tautologic) perspective, any disease is in the domain of the specialty that treats it. Neurologists treat headache, therefore (at least in the USA) headache is neurologic. Whether neurologic or not, nobody would disagree that disabling headaches are common. Perhaps my fee-for-service neurologic colleagues, scrounging for cases, want all the headache patients they can get. Working on a salary, however, I would rather not fill my office with patients holding their heads in pain. --- . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) ",13 "Re: pc-junior usable? In article <1993Apr17.201300.19312@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com> europa@tomcat.raleigh.ibm.com (Welch Bryan) writes: >My fiance has a pc-junior and wants to upgrade to a full 386. Does anyone >know if we could use the monitor it came with on a new machine? I heard >it's MCGA or EGA, but not sure which. Also, does it use cards, so we can >use the drive controller, floppy, etc? The only things you'll be able to salvage from the junior are the floppy drives and monitor. The floppies are 360k, and the monitor is CGA, but you will need an adaptor cable to use it. The junior does not use standard cards. Unless you're really strapped for cash, you should just junk the thing and buy new stuff. Dan -- Daniel Matthew Coleman | Internet: dcoleman@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu -----------------------------------+---------- : dcoleman@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu The University of Texas at Austin | DECnet: UTXVMS::DCOLEMAN Electrical/Computer Engineering | BITNET: DCOLEMAN@UTXVMS [.BITNET] -----------------------------------+------------------------------------------ ",3 "MYSTERY ILLNESS WITH SPOTS I attended high school in the San Jose, California area in the early 1980's, and I remember a (smallish) outbreak of a strange illness, in which people developed measles-like spots on their bodies. This condition seemed to last only a few days, and I don't recall anyone reporting any other symptoms. I seem to recall reading somewhere that this was believed to have been viral in nature, but I don't know for sure. However, I have been curious since then about this. Anyone have any ideas about what this might have been? ",13 "Re: CENTRIS 610 VIDEO PROBLEM - I > Has anyone NOT had these problems in the given configurations? (that would > help eliminate design flaw as the explanation) > David, I had the same video problem and it went away when I replaced the VRAM SIMMs. This doesn't mean that there isn't SOME kind of desgin flaw, only that the problem can be overcome with different SIMMs. ",4 "Cache card for IIsi I'm looking for a Cache card for my IIsi. I can spend $250 Max for it, what i need is 64 kb cache with a fpu socket and a dual slot adapter. Or at least a passe_through connector so i can keep my graphic card. I need your advice about the best card i can buy. How much performance increase i should expect, does the performance increase between the 32 and 64 kb Cache worths the price difference ?. And what's the best price i can get for such a card (i really need to spare each possible $). I have an Ethernet card for the LC with fpu. I don't think it would work for the IIsi but the fpu is socketed. Do you think i can take the fpu out of the card and put it in the empty fpu socket ?. Would it work at 20 Mhz ?. If not, how much should i pay for an extra fpu ?. -- Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. oueichek@imag.imag.fr Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) |Lab de Genie Informatique (LGI). Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten |IMAG, INPG. Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i) |46, Av. Felix Viallet, Grenoble. ",4 "Re: The Kuebelwagen??!! thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes: > Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after >my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here. > Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's? >A replica would be great I think. > -TKH '93 According to _The Complete Guide To Specialty Cars_, 7th Edition, from Crown Publishing, it's the VW Kubelwagen (w/ 2 dots over the 'u'). The company is: Wolfkam P.O. Box 1608, Vika 0119 Oslo 1, Norway 011-47-30-26601 voice line 011-47-2-166138 FAX line An excerpt from the blurb: ...This fine Kubel clone from Wolfkam is a very close copy of the original, and offers the same all-weather and cross-country capabilities as its WWII forebears. The robust fiberglass body kit is very complete, and includes all the hardware you will need, except for your own VW donor car. The phone number [...] is the entire AT&T dialing sequence; call and ask for Karl Torum, or send $5 cash or _International Money Order_ for a complete literature package. George. P.S., I'd be happy to share what info I have on other kit cars and kit car manufacturers. P.P.S., I'm looking for a used or partially completed Porsche 356 Speedster Convertible D replica from Intermeccanica. I'd appreciate any leads or advice/stories from any owners out there. ",7 "Re: Top Ten Comments Overheard in the Secret Service Lounge In article <1phgakINN9pb@apache.dtcc.edu>, bob@hobbes.dtcc.edu (Bob Rahe) writes: |>In article <1993Apr2.093952.1149@colorado.edu> ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU (A.J. Teel) writes: |> |>> Ed, they are losing their humor. Please take a break until they |>>get funny again (?), if that is even possible. I liked a few of these, |>>but that list is not even sarcastic, just insulting and definitely not |>>one of your best. I look forward to some better lists after a sabatical? |>>ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU |> |> No, they must be working, they are getting lots of these 'complaints' |>that they are not funny.... Keep 'em coming, it they weren't funny or |>bothering them they'd just ignore them.... If a six year old child does a funny trick and you say well done he will do it again and it may be funny. Then they may repeat it over and over again bu you still have to pretend its funny even though it isn't any more. Once they are older than six you expect them to realise that doing the same thing over and over again isn't funny any more. Basicaly Ed fails to be amusing because he is merely crass. He does not make jokes that have any political content beyond attempting to ridicule their target. Calling someone Slick Willie is not funny even if you put on a red nose while you say it, it was a good debating point used on the spur of the moment 12 months ago but now its use merely demonstrates that the user couldn't think of anything original to say. In the UK there is a tradition of old retired Colnels who bore the dinner guests rigid with their descriptions of old campagns. Ed is clearly one of this type of people who fails to see when a joke is spent. Phill Hallam-Baker ",18 "Bill James Player Rating Book 1993. (Dave 'This has never happened to me before' Kirsch) writes: > Correction: ""Nied was the only player identified in this book as a grade A >prospect who was exposed to the draft.."", according to Bill James in the >'Stop the Presses' section preceding his player evaluations. He valued Nied >at $21, and said that Nied's value does not increase significantly as a >result of his selection (although he did catch a break getting away from the >strongest rotation in baseball). I thought Bill James' latest book completely and totally sucked. I bought it, but will not purchase anything of his ever again without THOROUGHLY looking at it first. What tripe. The book is inconsistent, and filled with selective analysis. James claims to be looking forward, and then makes some absolutely bizarre statements of value. Not only that, but I got the impression he probably glanced at the book for about an hour before he put his name on it. To say I was disappointed is a grand understatement. -- * Gary Huckabay * Kevin Kerr: The Al Feldstein of the mid-90's! * * ""A living argument for * If there's anything we love more than a huge * * existence of parallel * .sig, it's someone quoting 100 lines to add * * universes."" * 3 or 4 new ones. And consecutive posts, too. * ",9 "Re: Why Spanky? On Mon, 12 Apr 93 00:53:14 GMT in <<1993Apr12.005314.5700@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>> Greg Spira (gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote: :>Does anybody in the Pittsburgh area know why Mike LaValliere was released? :>Last year I kept saying that Slaught should get the bulk of the playing time, :>that he was clearly the better player at this point, but Leyland insisted on :>keeping a pretty strict platoon. And now he is released? That doesn't :>make any sense to me. Greg, The story goes like this: Spanky is too slow! If he were quicker, he would still be here. But with Slaught and Tom Prince, they didn't want to lose Prince in order to bring up that 11th pitcher. Slaught is about as good as Spanky and Prince is coming along nicely! Don't feel too bad for him. He's still gonna get theat $4,000,000 over the next two years -- he'll be able to do most of what he wants to do. -- /*****************************************************************************/ /* Jon `Iain` Boone Network Systems Administrator boone@psc.edu */ /* iain+@cmu.edu Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center (412) 268-6959 */ /* I don't speak for anyone other than myself, unless otherwise stated!!!!!! */ /*****************************************************************************/ ",9 "Fast display adaptors for windows A friend and I have ATI Graphic Ultra display adaptors, and they have been reasonably good performers, but we both have had irritating compatibility problems with the ATI drivers and are ready to change to something faster and more compatible with windows. I have heard rumblings that the new Orchid 9000 card is very fast. Anyone have experience with this card? What is currently available that is fast, compatible, does 1280x1024x256 non- interlaced and cost under $500? Ken Keirnan -- Ken Keirnan - Pacific Bell - kjkeirn@srv.PacBell.com San Ramon, California ",2 "Need Prozac info I'm looking for information regarding dosages of prozac used in minor depression. Also any other information regarding the drug is helpful. Please send responses direct. Thanks! rrome@nyx.cs.du.edu ",13 "The architect of the Armenian genocide of the Muslim people in action. In article <1993Mar19.215728.24473@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >Armenians did not genocide Turks. See, you are a paid liar. Source: ""World Alive, A Personal Story"" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952). (Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 363 (first paragraph). 'How many people lived there?' 'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned. 'Did you see any Turk officers?' 'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.' ""The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me - Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion, Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would have been."" (to be continued...) Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",18 "Re: Israel not an Apartheid State? In article <1993May12.025019.22419@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes: >In article <2703@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au> jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes: >>It is not a question of an individuals standing. When a party puts up >>an Arab for a Cabinet post and that Arab is rejected but the position >>is given to a Jew from the same party we are not talking about power >>but racism. > Not necessarily. As Shai points out, political appointments are >based on power. They are also based on favors owed, coalition >building, and deal making. Actually I am not sure you have understood what I have said. On several occasions a minor party has put up an Arab for a Cabinet position. That is the major party (Labour in this case) has agreed that a minor party can have so many seats and that party nominates an Arab for one. This is not acceptable to the major party which insists on the minor party appointing a Jew. The favours owed, deals done, have all been settled. What remains is exactly who is going to sit in Cabinet. The party that gets the seat wants an Arab but that is not acceptable. This *is* racism. It has nothing to do with politics at all. Joseph Askew -- Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud In the autumn stillness, see the Pleiades, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu Remote in thorny deserts, fell the grief. Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care North of our tents, the sky must end somwhere, Actually, I rather like Brenda Beyond the pale, the River murmurs on. ",17 "Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?) Gary Merrill writes: > .. Not every wild flight of fancy serves > (or can serve) in the appropriate relation to a hypothesis. It is > somewhat interesting that when anyone is challanged to provide an > example of this sort the *only* one they come up with is the one about > Kekule. Surely, there must be others. But apparently this is regarded > as an *extreme* example of a ""non-rational"" process in science whereby > a successful hypothesis was proposed. But how non-rational is it? Indeed, an extreme example. It came ""out of nowhere."" The connection Kekule saw between it and his problem is fortunate but not extraordinary. I, for example, often receive/conjure solutions (hypotheses for solutions) to my everyday problems at moments when I appear to myself to be occupied with activities quite removed. Algorithms for that new software feature come when I trample the meadow on my occasional runs. Alternative (better>) ways to instruct and rear my sons arrive while I weed the garden. I'll swear I am not thinking about any of it when ideas come. These ideas are not the stuff of ""great"" discoveries, of course, but my connecting them to particular problems is fraught with deliberation and occasional fits of rationality. > Surely it wasn't the *only* daydream [Kekule] had. What was special about > *this* one? Could it have had something to do with a perceived > *analogy* between the geometry of the snakes and problems concerning > geometry of molecules? Yes. And he was lucky to have such a colorful, vivid image. I, alas, will never figure out why returning worms to the loose soil of my garden brought, ""have him count objects instead of merely count"" to mind regarding my 2 year-old's fledging arithmetic skills. > ... Upon close examination, > is there a non-rational mystical leap taking place, or is it perhaps > closer to a formal (though often incomplete) analogy or model? The latter. Worms wiggling around in the dirt fascinate my son. Regards, Ted -- Ted Lehr | ""...my thoughts, opinions and questions..."" Future Systems Technology Group, AWS | IBM | Internet: lehr@futserv.austin.ibm.com Austin, TX 78758 | ",13 "Nice Telecope for sale Tasco 18EB 20X-60X60mm, used once, looks like new, worth $170, sell $70 only. Buyers pay shipping. ailin 803-654-8817 ",6 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article pmy@vivaldi.acc.Virginia.EDU (Pete Yadlowsky) writes: :In article <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: : :>Now that Big Brother has rubbed out one minority religion in Waco, : :It seems they offed themselves, perhaps in the self-fulfillment of :prophecy. Wouldn't be the first time. No, it wouldn't be the first time a group has committed suicide to avoid the shame of capture and persecution. Ask the Jews. Go visit the ruins of Masada. : :>We used to live in a country where everyone enjoyed the free exercise of :>their rights to worship and bear arms. : :Arms? Automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers? The sorts of things :no family should be without, I guess. Anyway, I've often wondered what :business followers of Christ would have with weapons. It's hard to imagine a :pistol-packin' Jesus, though I suppose a pump-action shotgun would have :made clearing the temple a hell of a lot easier. Automatic weapons? Grenades? Rocket launchers? I didn't see any, other than the ones toted by the government. I have a feeling the BATF/FBI would have been much more cautious had the BD's had a case or two of LAWS... would have made a real hash of their cattle cars. : :>I'll bet all you cult haters are happy now, right? Just hope you're not next. : :Well, when the nice federal officers come to my house to check out my :extensive weapons cache, I'll just be sure not to shoot at them. :""Tea, ladies and gentlemen?"" That's nice... anybody attacks me, my home, or my loved ones with grenades or automatic weapons and they won't be the only ones dealing death and destruction. Uncle Sammie was kind enough to provide me with an education that included studying the Constitution, and even threw in a lot of time on the rifle range... My oath never said anything about bowing to tyranny, although it did include ""to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic"" : :It's very sad all those people died, especially the kids, but that's going :to happen in a free society whenever psychologically needy people hook up :with a charismatic nutcase. How free a society is it when a religous minority is attacked by an armed branch of government... especially when the most the BATF would have had jurisdiction for would have been essentially tax-evasion... Hope you got your 1040 in on time. From what you've said, shit happens and we should just sit back and accept it. Not on your life! My ancestors came to this country to escape religous intolerence, and earned their freedom with blood and cordite... I'll defend mine with the same, if need be... : :-- :Peter M. Yadlowsky | Wake! The sky is light! And Peter is from an academic institution... that used to mean something... but then again, so did the Bill of Rights... lemme see, where's that Brown Bess?? James former commander, Counter-Insurgency Club (a student government chartered student organization at Georgia Tech) -- ******************************************************************************** James S. Cochrane * When in danger, or in doubt, run in * This space gt6511a@prism.gatech.edu * circles, scream and shout. * for rent ******************************************************************************** ",16 "My Power supply fan makes an awful din - what to do? Hi all, Of late my computer's Power supply fan has begun to make a lot of noise. What can I do about this? If I had to get new power supply, or get a new case, where is a good place selling good tower cases and PS. I know there are a couple dozen listed in the Computer Shopper, but I was looking for personal experiences and recommendations. -- Divya ""Live long, and then DIE a slow and horrible death ...."" - What Confucius wanted to say .... ",3 "Bitplaned (""non-chunky"" pixel) cfb???? Is there a PD version of cfb, or other PD server stuff, which has a colour frame buffer implementation which works in bitplaned mode, i.e. where the screen memory is grouped so that ""bit 0 of every pixel is here, bit 1 is there, etc."" The only such beast I know if at the moment is the GfxBase server for the Commodore Amiga, and it is commercial. I don't know if they wrote their own cfb, but I suspect they did. Please respond by email, as I don't read this group. Many thanks Dave -- David Crooke, Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh Janet dcc@ed.dcs : Internet dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk : IP talk dcc@129.215.160.2 Work: JCMB Rm 3310, King's Bldgs, W Mains Rd., Edinburgh EH9 3JZ. 031 650 6013 Home: 2FL, 39 Woodburn Terr, M'side, Edinburgh EH10 4ST. Tel: 031 452 9067 ",5 "Athlete's Heart I've read that exercise makes the heart pump more blood at a stroke, and that it also makes the heart pumb slower, in order to make up for the greater volume. My Internist, who diagnosed my AV block, slow heart rate and PVC's, told me something different. She says that heart rate is associated with the electrical properties of the hear muscle, not its size. Exercise lowers heart rate and increases stroke volume, but the effects are unrelated except for their common source. The AV block, she asserts, is another electrical effect, which is irreversable - even when exercise is dicontinued. PVC's are also common in runners. So my EKG puts me in a class with trained athletes and also with heart patients. Isn't that strange, though? Are there any not-so-beneficial aspects to athlete's heart? Is it all good? Not worried, just curious, -Larry C. ",13 "Re: Origins of the bible. In article <1993Apr19.141112.15018@cs.nott.ac.uk>, eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright) writes: > Hi, > > I have been having an argument about the origins of the bible lately with > a theist acquaintance. He stated that thousands of bibles were discovered > at a certain point in time which were syllable-perfect. This therefore > meant that there must have been one copy at a certain time; the time quoted > by my acquaintace was approximately 50 years after the death of Jesus. Hi Adda, Most Bible scholars agree that there was one copy of each book at a certain time -- the time when the author wrote it. Unfortunately, like all works from this time period and earlier, all that exists today are copies. > > Cutting all of the crap out of the way (ie god wrote it) could anyone answer > the following: > > 1. How old is the oldest surviving copy of the new testament? There are parts of books, scraps really, that date from around the mid second century (A.D. 130+). There are some complete books, letters, etc. from the middle third century. The first complete collection of the New Testament dates from the early 4th century (A.D. 325). Throughout this period are writings of various early church fathers/leaders who quoted various scriptures in their writings. > 2. Is there any truth in my acquaintance's statements? If you mean that someone discovered thousands of ""Bibles"" which were all perfect copies dating from the last part of the 1st century...No! If you mean that there are thousands of early manuscripts (within the dates given above, but not letter perfect) and that the most probable text can be reconstructed from these documents and that the earliest original autographs (now lost) probably were written starting sometime shortly after A.D. 50, then yes. > 3. From who/where did the bible originate? From the original authors. We call them Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, James, and one other not identified. > 4. How long is a piece of string? ;-) As long as you make it. > > Adda > > -- Regards, Jim B. ",0 "Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com> >behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes: >> ... >> Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for >> R12. You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning >Society >> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per >> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash >those >> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very >shaky >> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst). >> ... >Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes >exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies >keep us all from getting. These substitutes exist, and at this time are available. Its the future availability that is in doubt. 1) GHG-12 Get it from People's Welding Supply 800-382-9006 2) butane/propane You can mix this yourself so no one can ever regulate it away. Just make sure you use good quality (dry) gases. I don't know of any 200mpg carb distributors :-) -- Jon Hacker | Get the OS/2 2.1 March Beta CD-ROM Caltech, Pasadena CA | for $20 --- Call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2 hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu | Read about it in comp.os.os2.beta ",7 "Re: Israel's Expansion II In article <22APR93.23368145.0079@VM1.MCGILL.CA> B8HA writes: >Avi, > For your information, Islam permits freedom of religion - there is >no compulsion in religion. Does Judaism permit freedom of religion >(i.e. are non-Jews recognized in Judaism). Just wondering. > >Steve Actually, Islam postulates that the Jews have deliberately falsified the written Bible for nefarious purposes, and thus the Jewish claim to the Land of Israel is nullified. That does not leave much room for Jews to manuever, whether they live as dhimmis in Dar al-Islam, or as enemies in Dar al-Har. -- Chris Metcalfe ",18 "Re: Hercules Graphite? (Results!) >> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes: >>> Has anyone used a Hercules Graphite adapter? It looks good on paper, and >>> Steve Gibson gave it a very good review in Infoworld. I'd love to get a >>> real-world impression, though -- how is the speed? Drivers? Support? rda771v@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (A.B. Wuysang) writes: > But the impressive performance of the Graphite was > not its Winmark, it was its Wintach result (esp. the paint > performance). Judging from the Wintach tests, I can hardly > imagine that there is a cheat driver for it. I received my Graphite VL on Thursday, and I've had a little bit of experience with it now. In general, it feels *FAST*, although this is the first VLB card that I have tried. Still, the results are impressive. With my 486DX2/66 w/16 MB, running at 1024x768/256, I've had the following WinTach 1.0 results: Card WP CAD Spread Paint Overall ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ATI Graphics Ultra 13.5 14.5 19.1 25.0 18.0 ATI Ultra+ (no aperture) 11.2 13.8 10.7 20.9 14.1 Hercules Graphite VL 16.1 67.8 41.4 52.8 44.5 Unfortunately I don't have the numbers here, but the ATI Ultra Pro VLB had an overall WinTach score of about 26. The Ultra Pro was nearly as fast in text handling, but was blown away in the CAD and Paint tests. As an additional test, we hand-timed a complex CorelDraw! slide resize/- redraw times. There was no swapping, but I'd expect there is a fairly heavy load on the CPU. The Graphite redraw times averaged about 10.2 seconds, with ATI Ultra Pro at 12.0. This jives with Steve Gibson's contention that the ISA Graphite is faster than an ATI UP on his complex Micrografx Draw document. So far, I'm *very* impressed. The drivers look solid, and the card flies. The installation and utilities are different, but comparable to ATI's. And I didn't have to wait for Build 59 for some reliability... With Hercules' software developer special, you can get an evaluation copy of the card for just $225 (or $200 for the ISA version). Call 800-532-0600 if you want to give it a try -- I'm a happy customer now! -- [ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ] [ ""stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth. now pull ] [ up. that's how the corrado makes you feel."" -- car, january '93 ] ",2 "Problem with libararies (?) I have been trying to compile some source code for a mpeg animation viewer for X Windows. I got the code from a ftp site. I have modified the Makefile as they instructed, no errors there. What happens is that I get the following message when everything is going to be linked: cc util.o video.o parseblock.o motionvector.o decoders.o fs2.o fs2fast.o fs4.o hybrid.o hybriderr.o 2x2.o gdith.o gray.o mono.o main.o jrevdct.o 24bit.o util32.o ordered.o ordered2.o mb_ordered.o /lib/libX11.so /lib/libXext.so -lm -o mpeg_play Undefined first referenced symbol in file getnetpath /lib/libX11.so t_alloc /lib/libX11.so t_unbind /lib/libX11.so t_open /lib/libX11.so t_rcvdis /lib/libX11.so netdir_free /lib/libX11.so t_error /lib/libX11.so netdir_getbyname /lib/libX11.so getnetconfigent /lib/libX11.so t_look /lib/libX11.so t_errno /lib/libX11.so t_close /lib/libX11.so netdir_getbyaddr /lib/libX11.so t_listen /lib/libX11.so t_rcv /lib/libX11.so setnetpath /lib/libX11.so t_bind /lib/libX11.so t_connect /lib/libX11.so t_accept /lib/libX11.so nc_perror /lib/libX11.so inet_addr /lib/libX11.so ld: mpeg_play: fatal error: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to mpeg_play *** Error code 1 (bu21) make: fatal error. Does anyone know where these missing functions are located? If you do can you help me with it? I posted before to one of the other Unix groups, I tried their suggestions but always get this error. If you have to know: I am using Unix system V. The machines here are 486's. The terminals I want to use are separate and just called X-terminals and they seem dedicated to that. I'm not sure as to what they really are, since it is one of my first times out with this X-windows gidget! That is, first time programming for it, so to speak. I use them alot just for the graphics things. If you can help, mail me soon. Gerard. ",5 "Re: Know anything about EISA-2? In article <1qt5nk$8o6@agate.berkeley.edu> bing@zinc.cchem.berkeley.edu (Bing Ho) writes: >I read about the development of EISA-2 some time ago but dismissed it >in light of the intense interest in VESA and PCI. However, I recently >was disheartened to hear that ISA cannot address more than 16mb of RAM, >a limit that too many of us will hit all too soon. > >I recall that EISA-2 will support 64-bit transfer among other enhancements. >Is there such a standard being developed? Very possibly, but if it's still going to be backwards compatible with the ISA bus, it's going to be the same tripe that the current EISA implementation really is. From what I've seen, the PCI bus will just be a new 32bit 33MHz intelligent bus (ie, bus controller takes care of interrupts and the like, not jumpers...) Hopefully it'll get somewhere up there with the AMIGA Zorro III bus.... VL Bus is a bit too much of a hack for my liking... Toodlepip! Marc 'em. ",3 "Re: GGRRRrrr!! Cages double-parking motorcycles pisses me off! In article mcguire@cs.utexas.edu (Tommy Marcus McGuire) writes: >However, this has nothing to do with motorcycling, unless you consider >the VW a bike. However, this has nothing to do with motorcycling, unless you consider the Amazona a bike. Keith Hanlan KeithH@bnr.ca Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada 613-765-4645 ",8 "Re: hats update... patches too! In article XHFg2B5w165w@fringe.rain.com, dean@fringe.rain.com (Dean Woodward) writes: >I've got orders for about 30-35 hats. The expensive part (not surprisingly) >is going to be having the patches made, with a setup fee of $100-200 or so. Dean, there's an old engineering saying concerning inventions and wheels. Contact #0099, he's done several runs of patches, and there is some patch-making company out there with the artwork already set up and paid for. --- Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker, Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM |and I showed him a picture of you. I said, DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |""Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"" (The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do... ",8 "Re: <, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: |> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> |> [...] |> >>The ""`little' things"" above were in reference to Germany, clearly. People |> >>said that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any. |> >That's not true. I gave you two examples. One was the rather |> >pevasive anti-semitism in German Christianity well before Hitler |> >arrived. The other was the system of social ranks that were used |> >in Imperail Germany and Austria to distinguish Jews from the rest |> >of the population. |> |> These don't seem like ""little things"" to me. At least, they are orders |> worse than the motto. Do you think that the motto is a ""little thing"" |> that will lead to worse things? You don't think these are little things because with twenty-twenty hindsight, you know what they led to. jon. ",0 "[PC] oak77 vga driver available via ftp? a user on my bbs ""accidentally"" deleted his vga driver for his oak77 card and has no backup. i was wondering if someone knew of an ftp site (and path, please!) where such a thing might be obtained. thanks. -- there is no religion when a man has good curry call the Lizard's Den bbs (801) IT'S-YODA - usenet, nethack, XiX, pc/amiga tim clinkenpeel: aberrant analytical skeptical agnostic idealist. -- i exclusively represent myself -- ",1 "Re: Please Recommend 3D Graphics Library For Mac. In article John_Shepardson.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu (John Shepardson) writes: >> Can you please offer some recommendations? (3d graphics) > > >There has been a fantastic 3d programmers package for some years that has >been little advertised, and apparently nobody knows about, called 3d >Graphic Tools written by Mark Owen of Micro System Options in Seattle WA. >I reviewed it a year or so ago and was really awed by it's capabilities. >It also includes tons of code for many aspects of Mac programming >(including offscreen graphics). It does Zbuffering, 24 bit graphics, has a >database for representing graphical objects, and more. >It is very well written (MPW C, Think C, and HyperCard) and the code is >highly reusable. Last time I checked the price was around $150 - WELL >worth it. > >Their # is (206) 868-5418. I've talked with Mark and he faxed some literature, though it wasn't very helpful- just a list of routine names: _BSplineSurface, _DrawString3D... 241 names. There was a Product Info sheet that explained some of the package capabilities. I also found a review in April/May '92 MacTutor. It does look like a good package. The current price is $295 US. ",1 "DSPSE (was Why Clementine?) The SDIO has ""contracted"" with the NRL (Naval Research Laboratory) to fly the Clementine Mission. BTW we call it DSPSE (Deep Space Project Science Experiment). The NRL is building the spacecraft, designing the detailed mission and doing the integration and operations (with help from, JPL & Goddard & prob. some folks I have left out...don't be mad). I am on the TAMP (Trajectory Analysis & Mission Planning) team and am responsable for the IV&V of the traj that Goddard/CSC are designing. As for why SDIO is doing it, some of the reasons are: 1) the safety constraints are too tight to try to run the LIDAR in LEO 2) in LEO we don't get any new radiation data on the sensors, we will get that data on our 9 passages through the Van Allen (sp?) Belts 3) since we are going out there...why not piggy-back some general science 4) the intercept problem is a lot easied over LONG distances and LONG times I am sure there are some things I have forgotten, and some I haven't been told but, those are the reasons we all talk about. -- Jim Blackshear jib@bonnie.jsc.nasa.gov ",14 "Re: space news from Feb 15 AW&ST In article <1993Apr23.155313.4220@dazixco.ingr.com> jbreed@ingr.com writes: >|> [Pluto's] atmosphere will start to freeze out around 2010, and after about >|> 2005 increasing areas of both Pluto and Charon will be in permanent >|> shadow that will make imaging and geochemical mapping impossible. > >Where does the shadow come from? There's nothing close enough to block >sunlight from hitting them. I wouldn't expect there to be anything block >our view of them either. What am I missing? You're assuming that their normal rotation carries all areas of the surface into sunlight. Not so. Even on Earth, each pole gets several weeks without sunlight in mid-winter. Pluto and Charon have much more extreme axial tilt and a much longer orbit. Pluto's north pole, for example, gets over a century of darkness followed by over a century of perpetual light. At the moment, we're in luck -- Pluto and Charon are just past their equinox, when the Sun was just on the horizon at both poles (of each). If we get probes there soon, only the immediate vicinity of one pole (on each) will be in long-term shadow. This will get steadily worse the longer we wait. -- All work is one man's work. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology - Kipling | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "moving icons I remember reading about a program that made windows icons run away from the mouse as it moved near them. Does anyone know the name of this program and the ftp location (probably at cica) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Kirk Membry ""Our Age is the Age of Industry"" rutgers!viamar!kmembry - Alexander Rodchenko -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ",2 "Re: Ryan out for 2-5 weeks!! And then cs1442aq@news.uta.edu (cs1442aq) quoth: >Nolan Ryan has torn cartlidge inhis right knee. Is having surgery and >is expected to miss 2-5 weeks. That's too bad. I really had hoped Nolan could end his career with a great year. I suppose there is still hope. -- Jason Lee jplee@oboe.calpoly.edu jlee@cash.busfac.calpoly.edu Giants e ^ i*pi + 1 = 0 The most beautiful equation in mathematics. Magic For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these: Number: ""It might have been."" John Greenleaf Whittier 155 ",9 "Re: Stay Away from MAG Innovision!!! In article <1993Apr12.114727.7059@walter.cray.com: huot@cray.com (Tom Huot) writes: :Peter Clark (pclark@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu) wrote: :: Interesting. You seem to be the only person I have ever heard of who :: has had a problem with MAG like that. I have a MAG MX15F myself, no :: problems. I liked it so much I showed it to a bunch of my friends: 6 of :: them went out and bought them, no problems. All Gateway 2000 Crystal :: Scan monitors are MAG Innovisions. I've not heard many Gateway people :: griping about their monitors. Seems like you got the bad apple. :You haven't heard Gateway customers griping about their monitors? :Where have you been? I have never seen as many complaints on the :net about anything else above the famous GW CS monitor flamefest. The bulk of the GW CS monitor complaints (to which I can add my complaint) is for the older monitor that really comes from Tatung. After getting mine repaired by Tatung a year ago, it is starting to flake out again. I'll be looking into NEC3DS and MAG 15F for my next monitors. -- Kenneth Ng Please reply to ken@blue.njit.edu for now. ""All this might be an elaborate simulation running in a little device sitting on someone's table"" -- J.L. Picard: ST:TNG ",3 "Re: built-in video problems on Mac IIsi !!??!! In <1993Apr19.164611.1018@fys.ruu.nl> walsteyn@fys.ruu.nl (Fred Walsteijn) writes: >I've seen the following problem om three Mac IIsi machines >all with 17 Mb RAM installed (70 or 80 ns SIMMs). >If the contents of a window are being calculated and updated >a lot of strange horizontal lines are temporarily generated >on the screen. The lines translate to the top of the screen and >have a slightly lower brightness than their surroundings (they >are a few millimeters apart). >I admit that they are vague, but they can still be distinguished clearly, >especially if the environment (i.e. the rest of the room) is a bit dark. >Applications which produce this effect are: >- the previewer of DirectTeX 1.2 (i.e. DVIReader 1.2) >- Kaleidagraph 2.1.1/FPU Another program which produces this effect is: - SpyGlass Transform 2.1 (while contouring a big 257*257 array). Thanks for any information about this problem, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred Walsteijn | Internet: walsteyn@fys.ruu.nl Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research | FAX: 31-30-543163 Utrecht University, The Netherlands | Phone: 31-30-533169 ",4 "Re: What part of ""No"" don't you understand? On 26-Apr-93 in Re: What part of ""No"" don't.. user Steve Novak@advtech.uswe writes: >> = eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu writes: >>> = Steve Novak writes: > >>>Because, of course, that possibility existed. Meaning any student who >>>really gave a shit could have a moment of silence on his/her own, which >>>makes more sense than forcing those who DON'T want to participate to >>>have to take part. What other reason is there for an organized ""moment >>>of silence""? > >>A ""moment of silence"" doesn't mean much unless *everyone* >>participates. Otherwise it's not silent, now is it? > >The whole point is, maybe everyone _doesn't want_ to participate. > >[...] >>Blindly opposing everything with a flavor of religion in it is >>utterly idiotic. > >Blindly opposing everything with a flavor of religion in it that is >supported by taxpayer money is the only way to keep christianity from >becoming the official U.S. religion. > >Not noticing that danger is utterly idiotic. Please provide evidence that having a moment of silence for a student who died tragically costs taxpayers money. ",19 "Re: Gateway Monitor Problem--Again! Help Did you ever notice that 99% of all the problems are from people that run Windows! Thanks MS... -- Gosh..I think I just installed a virus..It was called MS DOS6... Don't copy that floppy..BURN IT...I just love Windows...CRASH... ",3 "Re: DC-X update??? henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > The first flight will be a low hover that will demonstrate a vertical > landing. There will be no payload. DC-X will never carry any kind Exactly when will the hover test be done, and will any of the TV networks carry it. I really want to see that... -- John Lussmyer (dragon@angus.mi.org) Mystery Spot BBS, Royal Oak, MI --------------------------------------------?-- ",14 "DEC MT 486, Adaptec SCSI, 3COMM conflict I have a DEC NT 486DX33 that has an Adaptec SCSI controller, hard disk and cd-rom drive. When I add a 3COMM Ethernet card (3C503) and reboot the system I receive an error message that a boot device cannot be found. Pull the 3COMM card and reboot, everything is fine. I've moved the controller and 3COMM card to various slots, different positions (slot before the controller, slot after the controller) with the same result. DEC hasn't responded to the problem yet. Any help would be appreciated. -- Edward T. Keegan, Facility Director E-MAIL: keegan@cs.yale.edu Yale University, Computer Science Department PHONE: 1-203-432-1254 51 Prospect Street, Room 009 FAX: 1-203-432-0593 New Haven, CT 06520 ",3 "Re: bikes with big dogs In article <1993Apr14.234835.1@cua.edu> 84wendel@cua.edu writes: >Has anyone ever heard of a rider giving a big dog such as a great dane a ride >on the back of his bike. My dog would love it if I could ever make it work. > Thanks > 84wendel@cua.edu > On the back might be tricky, but here in Boulder, there is a guy that can always be seen with his Golden Retriever in the sidecar. Of course, the dog is always wearing WWII style goggles (no joke) ________________________________________________________________________ Nick Coburn DoD#6425 AMA#679817 '88CBR1000 '89CBR600 coburnn@spot.colorado.edu ________________________________________________________________________ ",8 "Re: Migraines and scans DN> From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) DN> A neurology DN> consultation is cheaper than a scan. And also better, because a neurologist can make a differential diagnosis between migraine, tension-type headache, cluster, benign intracranial hypertension, chronic paroxysmal hemicrania, and other headache syndromes that all appear normal on a scan. A neurologist can also recommend a course of treatment that is appropriate to the diagnosis. DN> >>Also, since many people are convinced they have brain tumors or other DN> >>serious pathology, it may be cheaper to just get a CT scan then have DN> >>them come into the ER every few weeks. DN> And easier than taking the time to reassure the patient, right? DN> Personally, I don't think this can ever be justified. Sigh. It may never be justifiable, but I sometimes do it. Even after I try to show thoroughness with a detailed history, neurologic examination, and discussion with the patient about my diagnosis, salted with lots of reassurance, patients still ask ""why can't you order a scan, so we can be absolutely sure?"" Aunt Millie often gets into the conversation, as in ""they ignored Aunt Millie's headaches for years"", and then she died of a brain tumor, aneurysm, or whatever. If you can get away without ever ordering imaging for a patient with an obviously benign headache syndrome, I'd like to hear what your magic is. Every once in a while I am able to bypass imaging by getting an EEG. Mind you, I don't think EEG is terribly sensitive for brain tumor, but the patient feels like ""something is being done"" (as if the hours I spent talking with and examining the patient were ""nothing""), the EEG has no ionizing radiation, it's *much* cheaper than CT or MRI, and the EEG brings in some money to my department. --- . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) ",13 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article dianem@boi.hp.com (Diane Mathews) writes: >>Dear Brother Bill, >> >>One way or another -- so much for patience. Too bad you couldn't just >>wait. Was the prospect of God's Message just too much to take? > > So do you want the president to specifically order each and every activity >of the FBI, or what? And how willing are you to blame Reagan and Bush, >directly, for the incidents that took place in the War on Drugs in their >administration? Are you going to blame Bush for the fact that Weaver's wife, >infant, son were killed? It happened while he was president. ... or consider the thousands in Central America killed by those brave CIA/NSC sponsored ""Freedom Fighters."" Thus far, Slick Willie is a piker. spl -- Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu San Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608 ""My other car is a car, too."" - Bumper strip seen on I-805 ",19 "Minnesota Shame? I'm a hockey fan from way back, and maintain an interest as best I can here in the hockey hinterlands (Oklahoma). I'm hoping I can get a reading from some of you about the move of the North Stars to Dallas. I've been under the impression that Minnesota was one of, or possibly, THE hockey state in the U.S. So why is the team moving to a city in Texas? Is it that the owner is a greedy, self-serving profiteer, or were the Stars really not making a profit? Or was the city or whoever owned the arena doing some price gouging? As much as I'd like to see the NHL only a 3 hour drive from me, I can't help but feel for the people in Minnesota, unless they truly didn't support the team. Opinions, please. Steve Hunter National Weather Service NEXRAD radar group Norman, OK ",10 "Re: Blinking Cursor in Xterm??? In <1993May11.144231.24879@ims.com> tonyf@ims.com (Antonio Freixas) writes: >In article <1993May10.134631.14364@taylor.uucp>, mark@taylor.uucp (Mark A. Davis) writes: >> >> *OH BOY* have I wanted this too. However, I believe that the cursor will >> be under the server's control (could be wrong)? On an Xterminal, for >> example, if the server was NOT the one controlling the cursor, then trying >> to get the xterm application to do the blinking would cause needless and >> yucky network overhead (consistantly). >> >Most people who write cursor blinking code just implement the simple case: a >straight 500msec (or so) on/off cycle. However, the cursor will work much >better if cursor blinking is suppressed (i.e. the cursor is made visible) any >time the cursor moves and for .5 to 1 sec thereafter. If you don't do this, the >cursor will be hard to track when in motion. You allways could port and use emu from export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/emu.tar.Z. We've implemented a blinking text cursor for the very reasons people mentioned. You can even configure the actual size of the text cursor (horizontal / ver- tical line cursors, smaller block cursors), turn on and off blinking, set the blink rate and so on. You even get blinking text - ok, enough advertising. I haven't looked at the xterm code in this respect, but from the memories I have when we had to decide whether to start with xterm and make it do what we wanted (mostly the blinking text), I'd say it won't be easy, since xterm is a hairy mess (understandable if you follow it's roots back to X10). The actual task to get the cursor to blink isn't that difficult if you provide the right hooks. As Antonio mentioned, you'll have to show the cursor directly after it has moved, or people will become confused. Since it's a good idea to take the cursor off the screen when you do anything on screen anyways, this isn't very complicated. You'll just have to start the blink process with the cursor showing directly after it's mapped. As for the portability of emu and it's newest version. The one on export is still the same as on the R5 contrib tape. We wanted to get out a new release for over six months now, but unfortunately we're drowning in work. But since the changes aren't affectiong emu's behavior much, I'd say whoever wants to try emu shouldn't wait for a new version. As is, emu won't work on BSD derived systems (e.g. SUNs) with anything else than a csh. There is a fix to this, which is very short (remove one line of code). I'll put this on export today. Michael -- Michael Elbel, Digital-PCS GmbH, Muenchen, Germany - me@dude.pcs.com Intelligenz is sowieso nur wat fuer Doofe - Mia Fermentation fault (coors dumped) ",5 "Re: Can Microwaves Be Used To Collect XYZ Coordinates In article <1993Apr15.103953.66252@cc.usu.edu> writes: > In article , rgc3679@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert G. Carpenter) writes: > > |> It seems reasonable to me that a microwave transmitter-receiver setup could > |> do the job. For example, say you want to map an acre lot, it'd be convenient > |> to place MW transmitters around the lot's periphery (either 2 or 3) and then > |> carry a hand-held recorder and walk to a point on the lot, press a button and > |> the coords of the recorder's location is stored as digital data. > |> > |> What's the chance of this working? Any systems like this already exist? > |> What kind of accuracy could you expect? What would something like this > |> cost to prototype? Is there a better alternative than microwaves? > > Of course you could develope this system, but there is already a system called Global > Positioning Satellites. It gives three dimensional coordinates anywhere on earth. > Many surveyors use this system with a differential receiver/transmitter to get > coordinates within centimeters. Basic receivers with resolution of a few meters (on > a good day) are available from many sources. > > > -- > WMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMWMW > > \_ \_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_ Weston R Beal > \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ sldf3@sol.ee.usu.edu > \_ \_ \_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_ sldf3@cc.usu.edu > \_\_ \_\_ \_ \_ \_ \_ Electrical Engineer > \_ \_ \_ \_ \_\_\_ Utah State University > > ""That's the wonderful thing about crayons; they can take you to > more places than a starship can."" - Guinon > > Thought it means Global Positioning System. There are two precision levels, one for army applications (killing has to be very accurate today) and one for civil ones. The civil precision is about 20 to 30m (correct me, if I'm wrong), though, it may be insufficiant for mapping buildings. But there is a way with an additional reference point (e.g. one fixed GPS system in a house) to get the same high precision as the military version, but it gets pretty complicated then. If You use a microwave system (actually this means some type of radar), You need quite a lot of number crunching to get accurate vectorized data out of Your original signals. So the GPS system seems to be the better (and running) idea for Your application(there have been discussions in this newsgroup, don't know of an address anymore). Cheers Robert (HB9NBY) -- Robert Ganter /------------\ Universitaet Basel | I am a fan | Institut fuer Informatik | of my plan | Basel/Switzerland \------------/ ganter@ifi.unibas.ch amateurradio: HB9NBY packet: HB9NBY@HB9EAS.CHE.EU ",12 "Re: Mix GL with X (Xlib,Xt,mwm) pyeatt@Texaco.com writes: >> There is a widget already defined for GL. It is the GlxMDraw (motif) or >> GlxDraw (athena) widget. It is similar to a XmDrawingArea, except that it >> allows you to use GL calls to render into the window. Look at glxlink, >> glxunlink, glxgetconfig, and glxwinset in the man pages. Where do I get hold of these widgets? Gerard O'Driscoll (gerard.odriscoll@dps.co.uk) Du Pont Pixel Systems Ltd. ",5 "Re: Endometriosis In article <1993Apr16.032251.6606@rock.concert.net> naomi@rock.concert.net (Naomi T Courter) writes: >can anyone give me more information regarding endometriosis? i heard >it's a very common disease among women and if anyone can provide names >... >--Naomi Endometriosis is where cells that would normally be lining the uteris exist outside the uteris. Sometimes this causes problems, often it doesn't. There is generally no need to remove pockets of endometriosis unless they are causing other problems. One lady I know had Endometriosis in an ovary. This caused her a _great_ deal of pain. Another lady I know has an endometrial cyst in her abdominal wall; she is not having it removed. The American Fertility Society has information on this and they probably maintain a list of physicians in all parts of the continent that deal with endometriosis. You can reach them at: The American Fertility Society 2140 11th Ave South Suite 200 Birmingham, Alabama 35205-2800 (205)933-8494 [J.F.] ",13 "Diamond Products Boycot? Diamond Video cards (stealth, viper, speedstar, etc...) may have excellent specifications, and the windows drivers that come with them might make windows BLINDINGLY fast, BUT: If you're considering buying a system, with a view to using it to run Unix (Linux, bsd, etc...) or some other special software, there is a good chance that it WILL NOT WORK with the Diamond cards. This is due to Diamond's propriety attitude to it's hardware: it's impossible to get free information from them about their chips (specifically their dot-clocks) without paying, and signing non-disclosure agreements. This made it impossible for the Free Software Foundation to provide X-Windows compatibility with these cards, as diamond didn't want to divulge programming neccessities. As far as I know only Diamond has this propriety on it's info. Mark. ",3 "4Sale: Always IN-2000 SCSI card I have a Always IN-2000 SCSI card for sale w/manuals, software, and cables. Make your best offer on this... gyro@ucsd.edu ",3 "Re: mysterious TV problem -- source? If the set is direct line powered, try checking the [likely to be there] hybrid regulator module down stream from the 170 volt supply. Several sets I've looked at use a 135 volt regulator. The regulators have a tendency to short out, making the safety circuits shut down the EHT supply section. Try putting the set on a Variac or adjustable transformer and lower the AC input voltage to the set to about 90 volts. If the set operates nromally, then you know you've got a shorted regulator. There are myriad other areas for problems, but I've seen the one above several times. Also, if the set uses one, the trippler module may be shot; that's fairly common. -- Bill Mayhew NEOUCOM Computer Services Department Rootstown, OH 44272-9995 USA phone: 216-325-2511 wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (140.220.1.1) 146.580: N8WED ",12 "More ODB Catchy Sayings Quotes from Our Daily Bread Our Daily Bread is a devotional help for spiritual growth. One can spend some ten to fifteen minutes at most reading the daily portion of scriptures and a related short article that brings the scriptures alive in applying in today's society. It ends with a saying at the bottom. This article is a collection of these sayings. Our Daily Bread is one of the many ministries/services provided by Resources for Biblical Communication. It is FREE. To receive the literature, just write and ask for it. The contact addresses are listed below. Write to Radio Bible Class. Copyright 1989 Radio Bible Class, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49555-0001 Canada: Box 1622, Windsor, Ontario N9A 6Z7 Australia: Box 365, Ryde, 2112 NSW Europe: Box 1, Carnforth, Lancs., England LA5 9ES Africa: Box 1652, Manzini, Swaziland Africa: PMB 2010, Jos, Nigeria Philippines: Box 288, Greenhills, 1502 Metro Manila Sayings with related scriptures in December/January/February 89-90 issue of Our Daily Bread When God saves us, all our sins are forgiven, forgotten, forever! Romans 5:1-11 Life with Christ is difficult; without Him it's hopeless. Ecclesiastes 4:1-6 It's the sin we cover up that eventually brings us down. Psalm 19:7-14 You're not ready to live until you're ready to die. Acts 21:1-14 Trusting in God's power prevents panic. Isaiah 40:6-17 The Bible is a record of man's compete ruin in sin and God's compte remedy in Christ. - Barnhouse 2 Timothy 3:10-17 Jesus can change the foulest sinners into the finest saints. Ephesians 2:1-10 They witness best who witness with their lives. Acts 4:23-33 God came to dwell with man that man might dwell with God. Philippians 2:5-11 A hurting person needs a helping hand, not an accusing finger. Psalm 109:1,2, 14-31 What you decide about Jesus determines your destiny. John 20:24-29 We must go to sinners if we expect sinners to come to the Savior. Romans 1:8-15 Knowing that God sees us brings both conviction and cofidence. Job 34:21-28 God's chastening is not cruel but corrective. Hebrews 12:4-17 When you think of all that's good, give thanks to God. Psalm 44:1-8 Man's greatest goal: give glory to God. 1 Peter 5:5-7 God loves every one of us as if there were but one of us to love. Romans 8:31-39 Only the bread of life can satisfy man's spiritual hunger. John 6:28-41 Conscience can be our compass if the word of God is our chart. 1 Timothy 4:1-5 Salvation is free, but you must receive it. Isaiah 55:1-5 If we're not as spiritual as we could be, we're not as spiritual as we should be. 2 Timonty 1:1-7 Circumstances do not make a man, they reveal what he's made of. Matthew 1:18-25 Make room for Jesus in your heart, and he will make room for you in heaven. Matthew 2:1-18 Heaven's choir came down to sing when heaven's king came down to save. Luke 2:1-20 God's highest gift awakens man's deepest gratitude. Luke 2:21-38 Serving the Lord is an investment that pays eternal dividends. 1 Peter 4:12-19 Time misspent is not lived but lost. Psalm 39:4-13 The measure of our love is the measure of our sacrifice. 1 Peter 4:7-11 God requires faithfulness; God rewards with fruitfulness. Luke 19:11-27 How you spend time determines how you spend eternity. Psalm 90:1-12 If you aim for nothing, you're sure to hit it. Daniel 1:1-8 The Christian's future is as bright as the promises of God. Psalm 23 Christ as Savior brings us peace with God; Christ as Lord brings the peace of God. Colossians 1:13-20 They who only sample the word of God never acquire much of a tast for it. Psalm 119:97-104 Unless one drinks now of the ""water of life"", he will thirst forever! Revelation 22:12-17 A hyprocrite is a person who is not himself on Sunday. Daniel 6:1-10 Be life long or short, its completeness depends on what it is lived for. Ecclesiates 9:1-12 God loves you and me - let's love each other. 2 Corinthians 13 It's always too soon to quit. Genesis 37:12-28 The character we build in this world we carry into the next. Matthew 7:24-29 God sends trials not to impair us but to improves us. 2 Corinthians 4:8-18 Marriage is either a holy wedlock or an unholy deadlock. 2 Corinthians 5:11-18 We are adopted through God's grace to be adapted to God's use. Galatians 6:1-10 Our children are watching: what we are speak louder than what we say. Proverbs 31:10-31 Union with Christ is the basis for unity among believers. Psalm 133 Keep out of your life all that would crowd Christ out of your heart. Romans 6:1-14 Don't try to bear tomorrow's burdens with today's grace. Matthew 6:25-34 Pray as if everything depends on God; work as if everything depends on you. 2 Kings 20:1-7 Some convictions are nothing more than prejudices. Galatians 3:26-29 Unless you velieve, you will not understand. - Augustine Hebrews 11:1-6 Christ is the only way to heaven; all other paths are detours to doom. 2 Corinthians 4:1-7 Many Christians are doing nothing, but no Christians have nothing to do! John 4:31-38 We bury the seed; God brings the harvest. Isaiah 55:8-13 The texture of eternity is woven on the looms of time. Ecclesiastes 7:1-6 It's not just what we know about God but how we use what we know. 1 Corinthians 8 The best way to avoid lying is to do nothing that needs to be concealed. Acts 5:1-11 God transforms trials into blessing by surrounding them with His love and grace. 2 Chronicles 20:1-4, 20-30 Confessing your sins is no substitute for forsaking them. Psalm 51:1-10 If you shoot arrows of envy at others, you would yourself. Philippians 1:12-18 He who has no vision of eternity doesn't know the value of time. Ephesians 5:8-17 He who abandons himself to God will never be abandoned by God. Psalm 123 No danger can come so near the Christian that God is not nearer. Psalm 121 Many a man lays down his life trying to lay up a fortune. Matthew 6:19-24 God's grace is infinite love expressing itself through infinite goodness. Philippians 1:1-11 One way to do great things for Christ is to do little things for others. Romans 16:1-16 You rob yourself of being you when you try to do what others are meant to do. Romans 12:1-8 Don't pretend to be what you don't intend to be. Matthew 23:1-15 Meeting God in our trials is better than getting out of them. Psalm 42 If sinners are to escape God's judgement, God's people must point the way. Matthew 24:15-27 It's not a sin to get angry when you get angry at sin. John 2:13-22 We prepare for the darkness by learning to pray in the light. 1 Samuel 2:1-10 Christianity is not a way of doing certain things but a certain way of doing all things. Ephesians 5:1-7 Better to know the truth and beware than to believe a lie and not care. Jeremiah 28 A true servant does not live to himself, for himself, or by himself. Genesis 13 Those who do the most earthly good are those who are heavely mined. Philippians 1:19-26 A good marriage requires a determination to be married for good. Genesis 2:18-24 If you're looking for something to give your life to, look to the one who gave His life for you. 1 Corinthians 3:1-11 When we have nothing left but God, we discover that God is enough. Psalm 46 God is with us inthe darkness as surely as He is with us in the light. 1 Peter 1:1-9 Some people spend most of their life at the complaint counter. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-22 Of all creation, only man can say ""yes"" or ""no"" to God. Genesis 9:8-17 The most rewarding end in life is to know the life that never ends. Ecclesiates 8:10-15 One of the marks of a well-fed soul is a well read Bible. Joshua1:1-9 Because God gives us all we need, we should give to those in need. Proverbs 14:20-31 It's never too early to receive Christ, but at any moment it could be too late. Luke 16:19-31 God's grace keeps pace with whatever we face. 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success. 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 When we give God our burdens, He gives us a song. Psalm 57 Do the thing you fear, and the death of fear is certain. - Emerson 1 Corinthians 2:1-8 The best way to conquer an enemy is by the strategy of love. Matthew 5:38-48 ****************************************************************************** Loneliness is being unaware of the One who is with us everywhere. ****************************************************************************** When the Christian stays his mind on Christ, he develops a wonderful CALMplex. ****************************************************************************** ",15 "Re: icons gone In a previous article, hsano@cs.ulowell.edu (Hitoshi Sano) says: >I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post this. > >The icons on Win3.1 Program Manager have all dissapeared and i need to >restore them. The files all seem to be there on the disk and I think there >must be a better way than re installing everything. Thanks for any help! > > Hmmmmm you know this happened to me also. I am not sure what caused it. I think there might have been a system error and dumped windows. I came back and all was well except no groups. Program Manager was EMPTY. All the .grp files were in the directory. I had to remake the groups with the new and group selection. ALL THE ICONS AND FILES INSIDE THE GROUPS WERE STILL THERE AND WORKING FINE. Just the groups had gone out of program manager. Strange !!!! C-ya..... /\/\artin -- This communication is sent by /\/\artin University of Arizona Tucson ========================================================================= ak333@cleveland.freenet.edu mlinsenb@ccit.arizona.edu mlinsenb@arizvms DEATH HAS BEEN DEAD FOR ABOUT 2,000 YEARS ****** FOLLOW THE KING OF KINGS ",2 "Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT) ""Jeremy G. Mereness"" says: > >Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in >the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc? > >I am fixing to buy a car in the next few months aiming toward something >a little bigger than a typical small car and with a little more power. I >am considering the MX-6, Probe, Accord, Corolla, and the 240SX. > >The Probe is the youngest of the bunch, thus my interest in opinions. >But every magazine and ratings book places it as an excellent value. >BTW, the 240SX is rear-wheel drive and is due for a re-design for 1994. > >Thanks in Advance! While I don't read normally read this group, I was looking for Valentine radar information (sigh, maybe in the FAQ) and came across your posting.. I bought a '93 Probe GT with the PEP 263A last July (now at 9500 miles) after debating over the Sentra SE-R/NX2000, MX6, MR-2, Stealth, Prelude, and Celica. Check this month's Consumer Reports for previous Probe records. My criteria: a ""fun"" car with ABS, airbag, over 130hp, and less than $25K. I thought about a turbo, but checking with insurance people ruled that out. The Tri-Star cars (Eclipse/Talon/etc) were out since they don't have an air bag. Ditto for the Mustang(also no ABS). The SE-R/NX2000/M20 fell into the pocket-rocket category. A good used car buy. The MX-6 was almost there but rolled more than I liked. I didn't like the Prelude dash/instrumentation at all. Too weird for me. The MR2 has a much smaller non-passenger space than I needed, so out that went. The Celica was ""ok"" but underpowered when loaded with options (and somewhat overpriced too) in non-turbo form. I never considered the 240SX since it didn't have an airbag. I did look at it for its RWD virtues but that's it. The Corolla never entered my mind. I should have looked at the Mitsubishi VR4/Dodge Stealth more. Since my list was exhausted, I bought the Probe. :-) The car design is different than earlier years, so it's too early to see its reliability so far. For what it's worth, my comments: My dislikes: Shutting door with windows up from inside rarely makes good wind seal. Headlights have ""stuck"" up a few times (weather?) air conditioning broke ~4000 miles (pressure cycling switch) condensation around rear washer fluid container doesn't drain completely. crammed engine; little hope for do-it-yourselfers (typical) parts somewhat more expensive than normal Ford parts underside plastic doesn't like sharp driveways and speedbumps (typical). assembly gripes: tape on radiator, screw fell out of dash, seat seams not stitched properly. Hopefully just a fluke. Ford only gives 1 key with the car. C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies! Rear hatch has no padding on corners when up. I'm waiting for the day when I bash my head on the corner. horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference) Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car My Likes: engine (design/valves/sounds/smoothness/power/mileage/torque) -- definitely #1 handling (very good for FWD; understeer only at limits) transmission (the 5 speed is a must) usable instrumentation (lovely readable analog everywhere) Very little torque steer at full power (much better than the '90 SHO I drive) stability at 100+mph (high gearing though) low cowl (good visibility in front) Heated outside mirrors (nice in fog, never tested in freezing weather) ABS/Air bag (see above) rear seats fold down (I have few rear seat passengers so a trunk not important) No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!) Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-) As you can see, I'm primarily interested in the engine. While it doesn't have the uummmph of a big-liter car or the turbo rush, the big selling point for me was the all-aluminum 24 value 2.5 liter engine. The overall car is a good buy for the money. That market segment hasn't changed much since July (Prelude VTEC, Honda Del Sol??). I drive it to and from work each day on relatively smooth roads, and most noticable thing is that the Probe's suspension doesn't like potholes. When you test drive one, find a potholed road somewhere around town and see if the jarring you get is tolerable. If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too. They'll find that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides differently (if that's ""better"" is up to you). Also, there's a lot of glass around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty hot in the summer. My back seat passengers (now very few) complain about the lack of ventilation; you may want to consider that when combined with the heat. I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine. Leather and the keyless entry system weren't available when I got the car so I can't comment on them (I got the car before it was officially announced). I prefer cloth to leather anyway. I wouldn't want this car in the snow: The suspension is too rough for the inevitable surprise potholes, tires aren't meant for snow, and the seats assume that you're not wearing lots of thick clothing. Rain is much better: water generally beads off the windshield at freeway speed, the windshield wiper controls are easy and understandable, and I barely hydroplaned once with the Eagles (and I was really trying). There is also a definite lack of cup holder/small storage places. The GT has map holders below the speakers in the door, but they're rigid plastic that could fit two cassettes or CD's max. The center console/storage bin/arm rest has *1* cup holder and the back of the front seats have a cloth ""pouch"" but that's it. No change holders. Quite a let-down from the SHO. And the Probe is definitely not a people-mover car or an econo-box car! Lastly, don't store wet car covers in the back. The foam will soak the water up and the result will *not* smell pleasant :-(. Nathan nathan@sco.com > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >|Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | >|zonker+@cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| >| FAST Project, CMU-GSIA | Software| opinions, alone. | >|B.S. Mechanical Engineering, CMU| | Ya Gotta Love It. | >| Every Silver Lining's Got a Touch of Grey | >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This year marks the 200th anniversary of the Bill of Rights > -- MX: nathan@sco.com ""NO COMMENT""/They're coming to take me away, Ha-Ha! -- Napolean XIV ",7 "Stealth 24 Video Drivers I recently purchased a Diamond Stealth 24 Video card and received the wrong drivers. Does anyone know where I can ftp the windows video drivers for the Stealth 24. I tried the drivers at cica and they don't work. The right drivers are on the Diamond BBS but the file is almost 1 meg and it would take a while to download them at 2400 baud. Any information would be appreciated. Please contact me at doug@sun.sws.uiuc.edu Thank you Doug Ward . ",2 "Re: islamic authority over women SCOTT D. SAUYET (SSAUYET@eagle.wesleyan.edu) wrote: : Regardless of people's hidden motivations, the stated reasons for many : wars include religion. Of course you can always claim that the REAL : reason was economics, politics, ethnic strife, or whatever. But the : fact remains that the justification for many wars has been to conquer : the heathens. : If you want to say, for instance, that economics was the chief cause : of the Crusades, you could certainly make that point. But someone : could come along and demonstrate that it was REALLY something else, in : the same manner you show that it was REALLY not religion. You could : in this manner eliminate all possible causes for the Crusades. : Scott, I don't have to make outrageous claims about religion's affecting and effecting history, for the purpsoe of a.a, all I have to do point out that many claims made here are wrong and do nothing to validate atheism. At no time have I made any statement that religion was the sole cause of anything, what I have done is point out that those who do make that kind of claim are mistaken, usually deliberately. To credit religion with the awesome power to dominate history is to misunderstand human nature, the function of religion and of course, history. I believe that those who distort history in this way know exaclty what they're doing, and do it only for affect. Bill ",0 "Re: Low Emission Monitors: Who besides NEC? hartzman@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Les Hartzman) writes... >Does anyone else make low radiation emission monitors besides NEC? > >How do they compare to NECs (quality and emission-wise)? >-- >Les Hartzman hartzman@kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov >Jet Propulsion Laboratory M/S 238-528 (818) 354-5964 >4800 Oak Grove Dr., Pasadena, CA. 91109 Les, I am right now working on an MPR-II certified (Swedish standards for low emissions) Hitachi Superscan 15 monitor. It's 1024x768, up to 72hz at that res, and it got a good write-up for image quality in a recent (Feb.?) issue of PC Magazine. As far as I know, very little fully matches a NEC in image quality (at least according to the mags -- I can't tell any difference between the two!), but I think NEC is low emissions on only one of the two types. There's VLF (Very Low Frequency) and ELF (I think that's Extremely Low Frequency). The MPR-II standards set strict limits on both. But many comapnies, NEC included according to one article I read (I get a bunch of mags so it's hard for me to remember which!), which claim ""low emissions"" but not specifically ""MPR-II Compliant"" or ""MPR-II Certified"" only control for one, usually VLF, and ignore the other. So, the NEC probably has higher overall image quality (I consis- tently hear it rated as the best or close to the best), but not as low emissions as the Hitachi. I like my image quality, but for all I know you may be more discerning. Good luck! - Mitch v063kcbp@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Oh yeah: I got my Hitachi Superscan 15 from Insight for $499.) ",3 "Looking for Xt and Xaw I want to compile Xdvi and later perhaps Emacs 19 on a DEC Ultrix machine with X installed. Unfortunately, Xt and Xaw libs and headers are missing. How can I get them without having to compile the whole MIT distribution ? Pleasy reply by email to: viola@yukawa.uni-muenster.de Thanks in advance. ",5 "Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? In article oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser) writes: > >And the two simplest refutations are these: > >(1) What impact? The only record of impact comes from the New Testament. >I have no guarantee that its books are in the least accurate, and that >the recorded ""impact"" actually happened. I find it interesting that no other >contemporary source records an eclipse, an earthquake, a temple curtain >being torn, etc. The earliest written claim we have of Jesus' resurrection >is from the Pauline epistles, none of which were written sooner than 20 years >after the supposed event. First, off I'd say that the impact if right before your eyes! 8-) That we are even discussing this is a major impact in and of itself. Further, the early church bears testimony to the impact. >(2) It seems probable that no one displayed the body of Jesus because no >one knew where it was. I personally believe that the most likely >explanation was that the body was stolen (by disciples, or by graverobbers). >Don't bother with the point about the guards ... it only appears in one >gospel, and seems like exactly the sort of thing early Christians might make >up in order to counter the grave-robbing charge. The New Testament does >record that Jews believed the body had been stolen. If there were really >guards, they could not have effectively made this claim, as they did. Of course they knew where it was. Don't forget that Jesus was seen by both the Jews and the Romans as a troublemaker. Pilate was no fool and didn't need the additional headaches of some fishermen stealing Jesus' body to make it appear He had arisen. Since Jesus was buried in the grave of a man well know to the Sanhedrin, to say that they didn't know where He was buried begs the question. Now, you say that you think that the disciples stole the body. But think on this a moment. Would you die to maintain something you KNEW to be a deliberate lie!? If not, then why do you think the disciples would!? Now, I'm not talking about dying for something you firmly believe to be the truth, but unbeknown to you, it is a lie. Many have done this. No, I'm talking about dying, by beheading, stoning, crucifixion, etc., for something you know to be a lie! Thus, you position with regards to the disciples stealing the body seems rather lightweight to me. As for graverobbers, why risk the severe penalties for grave robbing over the body of Jesus? He wasn't buried with great riches. So, again, this is an argument that can be discounted. That leaves you back on square one. What happened to the body!? IHL, Gene -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 [Again, let me comment that the most plausible non-Christian scenario, and the one typically suggested by sceptics who are knowledgeable about the NT, is that the resurrection was a subjective event, and the empty tomb stories are a result of accounts growing in the telling. --clh] ",15 "Re: Christian Morality is In article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes: >In article 11853@vice.ICO.TEK.COM, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes: >|> >|> Yet I am still not a believer. Is god not concerned with my >|> disposition? Why is it beneath him to provide me with the >|> evidence I would require to believe? The evidence that my >|> personality, given to me by this god, would find compelling? > >The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. >But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love >you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to >love you. First, I don't expect them to love me if they don't even know I exist. Secondly, I wouldn't expect them to love me simply because they were my creator. I would expect to have to earn that love. >The responsibility is on you to love God and take a step toward >Him. He promises to be there for you, but you have to look for yourself. Are you daft? How do I love something I don't believe exists? Come back when you've learned to love your third testicle. >Those who doubt this or dispute it have not givin it a sincere effort. >Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see >that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with ""logic"". >Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is >the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never >know more than you do now. To learn you must accept that which >you don't know. At which point you have stepped over the line and become a complete asshole. Even though it's your first offense, I won't let it slip becuase I've heard it too goddamned many times. You love Jesus because deep in your heart you're a cannibalistic necrophiliac. Because I say so, and I'm much more qualified to assess your motivations than you are. Fortunately, there are some things I get to accept on evidence rather than faith. One of them being that until christians like yourself quit being so fucking arrogant, there will never be peace. You've all made sure of that. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away, and sank Manhattan out at sea. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ",0 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption rlward1@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Robert Ward) writes: >In article bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes: >>and since the US constitutions guarantees the right to every American >>to bear arms, why is not every American entitled, as a matter of > >Have you read the applicable part of the Constitution and interpreted it IN >CONTEXT? If not, please do so before posting this misinterpretation again. >It refers to the right of the people to organize a militia, not for individuals >to carry handguns, grenades, and assault rifles. The Supreme Court seems to disagree with you -- they have stated that ""the people"" is a term of art refering to an individual right, and have explicitly mentioned the second amendment as an example. I quote: ""... 'the people' seems to have been a term of art employed in select parts of the Constitution. The Preamble declares that the Constitution is ordained, and established by 'the people of the the U.S.' The Second Amendment protects the right of the people to keep and bear Arms ...."" - Supreme Court of the U.S., U.S. v. Uerdugo-Uriquidez (1990). Furthermore, in the Miller decision, they only permitted prosecution for possession of a sawed-off shotgun because the defense had not presented testimony and they therefore accepted the argument of the government that such weapons have no military value -- they held that the amendment protected the individual right to possess military weapons. Unfortunately, no second amendment case has successfully gotten to the court in fifty years. However, that does not change the interpretation. Furthermore, it appears that others disagree with you as well, vis: ""The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratifi- cation, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner."" - Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session ( February 1982 ) You might rightfully ask ""well then, what does that first bit about militias mean?"" Well, ""militia"" in historical context basically means the whole of the adult males of the country. (Indeed, the U.S. Code still defines ""militia"" as all armed men over the age of 17). ""The Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense .... And ... these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."" - Supreme Court of the United States, U.S. v. Miller (1939). The reason for the phrase being there was to explain the rationale behind the amendment, which was this: by depending on the people to bear arms in defense of the country, no centralization of military power could ever occur which would permit tyranny -- in short, the government would remain perpetually in fear of the people, rather than the other way around. ""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."" - Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, June 1776 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950). ""And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance ? Let them take arms ... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."" - Thomas Jefferson (letter to William S. Smith, 1787, in Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover, ed., 1939). ""Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."" - Noah Webster, ""An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution"" (1787), in Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States (P. Ford, 1888). You may disagree with the second amendment, and wish that it be repealed, but please do not pretend that it isn't there and that it doesn't mean what it says. You might argue that conditions have changed and that it should no longer be present, but you can't imagine it away. I could fill a book with detailed argumentation. Many have already. However, none of this has anything to do with cryptography. Lets get it out of here. If you insist on discussing this, please do it in talk.politics.guns, where people will gladly discuss this matter with you. -- Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com -- Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui meme. ",11 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1r1io1INNmhk@chnews.intel.com>, cknox@sedona.intel.com (Christopher W. Knox~) writes: > > In article , billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes: > > In article pmy@vivaldi.acc.Virginia.EDU (Pete Yadlowsky) writes: > > > > >Arms? Automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers? The sorts of things > > >no family should be without, I guess. Anyway, I've often wondered what > > >business followers of Christ would have with weapons. It's hard to imagine a > > >pistol-packin' Jesus, though I suppose a pump-action shotgun would have > > >made clearing the temple a hell of a lot easier. > > Luke's account of the Last Supper. ""...sell your cloak and buy a > sword."" Peter carried a sword (scene in Gethsemane). > I'm not expert on Christianity, but I know a little about history and how the repeated instances of Messianic figures (jesus was neither the first, last nor most serious of those pretenders) related to the history of the period. A messiah in those days was to bring salvation from the Romans! He was supposed to reclaim Israel and Judaea, bring the Israelites back from what is now Iraq-Persia-Afghanistan, and do so not only by faith, but by real war. Any Messianic pretender would tell his followers to get ready for war, since they were going to throw the Romans out of Judaea and free the Israelites. For those interested, Bar Kochba's claim was taken far more seriously than Jesus' among the Jews. They revolted and 600,000 were slaughtered by the Romans. His claim was only rejected after his defeat, although for a short time he looked as though he would win. They even got to mint coins before the Romans triumphed. Now how that has played into Christianity is rather interesting given your use of the statement attributed to Jesus. Did Koresh figure he had to get rid of the US government to free Israel? Had he the foggiest notion of who are todays descendants of the Israelites? (one hint, almost none of them are Christians, look at the three countries listed above, they were their and Jewish until at least the 10th century) Seth Rosenthal Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'. ",16 "Re: Shuttle oxygen (was Budget Astronaut) I thought that under emergency conditions, the STS can put down at any good size Airport. IF it could take a C-5 or a 747, then it can take an orbiter. You just need a VOR/TAC I don't know if they need ILS. pat ANyone know for sure. ",14 "Organization of Islamic Conference Dear Friends, Hi! I need some information about the Organization ofISlamic Conference (OIC). Does anyone know if there are books, articles, or journals that contains information regarding this organization? If you know would you please send me an E.MAil at my address! I thank you in advance and hope to hear soon since I need thisat present. Regards!! Aziz ",17 "Re: The Inimitable Rushdie In article <1qlb7oINN684@shelley.u.washington.edu> jimh@carson.u.washington.edu (James Hogan) writes: >20:52 P.S.T. I come to my senses and accept the all-knowing >wisdom and power of the Quran and Allah. Not only that, but Allah >himself drops by to congratulate me on my wise choice. Allah rolls a >few bones and we get down. Then Allah gets out the Crisco, bends >over, and invites me to take a spin around the block. Wow. >20:56 P.S.T. I realize that maybe Allah is looking for more of a >commitment than I'm ready for, so I say ""Man, I've got some >programming to do. Gotta go. I'll call you."" >20:59 P.S.T Thinking it over, I renounce Islam. What loyalty! Jim, it seems you've been reading a little too much Russell Hoban lately. As Hemingway said, my imitators always imitate the _bad_ aspects of my writing. Hoban would, no doubt, say the same here. Gregg ",0 "Re: Cults Vs. Religions? To the media, ""religion"" and ""cult"" have about the same relative connotations as ""government"" and ""terrorist group"". -- C. Wingate + ""The peace of God, it is no peace, + but strife closed in the sod. mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing: tove!mangoe + the marv'lous peace of God."" ",0 "Hawaii tickets forsale!!!! Hallo all...my girlfriend and I will be travelling across the US this summer, so we won't be using our tickets to return to Hawaii. Please buy them. The tickets are one-way, leaving Peoria, IL on May 17. It connects to the main route in Minneapolis/St. Paul, and from there goes on to Honolulu...you'll be in Honolulu at 2:42 pm, and flying via Northwest airlines. Any offers will be considered, but please make sure these are serious offers. Tickets to Hawaii aren't cheap, but we're aiming to make two people very happy this summer. ******************* madkiwi@camelot.bradley.edu ",6 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qu03p$442@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: |> In article <1qsili$fme@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> # |> #You're admitting a lot more than that. You are admitting that |> #your morals are situational. You are admitting that the actions |> #of other people and the situation you are in help to determine |> #how you judge the moral significance of one of your own actions. |> |> Sure. |> |> #If you employ X degree of force, that's not moral, but if you employ |> #X degree of force, but previously someone else has employed Y degree |> #of force, and the situation is thus-and-so, that *is* moral. |> |> Sure, within the limits of what I know. |> |> #This is quite different from saying ""Employing force on other people |> #is immoral, period. Unfortunately, from time to time we are obliged |> #to do this immoral thing for reasons of self-preservation, and so |> #we have to bear the moral consequences of that. |> |> Since both statements, to all intents and purposes, say effectively |> the same thing, Are you serious? Two statements, one of which says that use of force in the given situation is moral, and the other of which says it is not moral ""say effectively the same thing?"" Would you say this of any two statements, one saying ""X is moral"" and the other saying ""X is immoral?"" How would you decided when two statements ""X is moral"" ""X is immoral"" actually conflict, and when they ""say effectively the same thing"". |> and lead one to do precisely the same thing, then |> either both statements are doublespeak, or none. They might lead you to do the same thing, but the difference is what motivates pacifism so they obviously don't lead pacifists to to the same thing. jon. ",0 "WANTED:MEMPHIS SUBLET Non-smoking, normal law student needs furnished place to live in Memphis this summer. I'll be working at a firm downtown and will have to pass the bar character examination, so you don't have to worry about your stuff being broken or stolen. Call Chris at (804)979-2519 or leave e-mail. ",6 "HDs and other Computer parts for Sale / Wanted... For Sale: Fujitsu 324meg SCSI drive. $450 Maxtor 338meg ESDI drive. $425 Maxtor 160meg ESDI drive. $225 Toshiba 106meg IDE drive. $175 XT case & motherboard. $50 DTC 16-bit MFM 2HD 2FD controler. $30 All items are used, in full working condition, and have a warranty for one week unless otherwise specified. All prices are %100 negotiable, shipping not included. Wanted: Developers kit for SB 17"" SVGA moniters (two of them). -- Carl A. Merritt ",6 "Re: Lead Acid batteries & Concrete? In article <1993Apr21.204556.21262@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> camter28@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Carter Ames) writes: > > I was just wondering one thing, actually two. ( I hope that this is the > proper place to post this subject) > > Why does a lead acid battery discharge and become dead (totally unuseable) > when stored on a concrete floor? > I decided to bring the battery in from the lawn mower and the motorcycle > from the unheated garage this year, *to preserve them* and I just > went to use them and noticed that not only do they not work, but > they act like the two terminals are shorted. I asked a friend > and he said that you should never do that, 'cause it ruins them, > but he couldn't tell me why. > > thanks > camter28@astro.ocis.temple.edu What happens is that (I heard this discussed on ""Northern Exposure"") there is a molecular juxtaposition of the molecules in the battery and the molecules in the concrete. This acts as an attractant to UFOs (actually their crew members) and they arrive at the scene of the battery/concrete combination. Then they proceed to SUCK ALL THE ENERGY OUT OF THE BATTERIES! Remedy: Set the battery on a nonconcrete floor. Jack ",12 "Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim In article <1993Apr8.233443.22590@exu.ericsson.se>, exulox@exu.ericsson.se (Lasse Ohlsson, T/TDT, 1129) writes: > In article 23250@cas.org, sdm24@cas.org () writes: > >IMHO, the dumbest thing we *ever* did in copying the Japanese was moving the > >dimmer switch from the floor to the lever controlling the turn signal/cruise The federal government has mandated that all passenger cars by model year '95 return to the floor mounted dimmer switch. A study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has found that an unacceptable percentage of after dusk collisions were the direct result of unskilled drivers getting their left foot stuck in the steering wheel :-) -- Ron Gaskins c23reg@koptsw21.delcoelect.com Automotive Electronic Systems Delco Electronics GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904 -- Ron Gaskins c23reg@koptsw21.delcoelect.com Automotive Electronic Systems Delco Electronics GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904 ",7 "tvtwm & xsetroot, X11R5 and Sparc 10 keyboard Hi, Please reply to me direct as I am not a member of this list. I am new to X, so please excuse my lax (read: ""probably incorrect"") terminology! Environment: Sun Sparc 10, SunOs 4.1.3. X11R5 path level 23. My X process is started by xdm. i) I want to setup the backgroud (root window?) of the tvtwm display to display the escherknot etc (grey is a very boring colour to work on)! The setup is as follows: lib/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 - xsetroot -bitmap ... etc ~user/.xsession - xsetroot .... etc tvtwm There are also .tvtwmrc and .Xdefaults files in the (~user) home directory. The xsetroot in Xsetup_0 displays the appropriate bitmap in the xdm login window as expected - very nice! Unfortunately, when the users session is started, the background of the tvtwm window reverts to grey. If I manually type xsetroot... in an xterm window when the session has started, the background is changed as expected. The question is: How do I retain the background from the login window and/or specify a new background on a per-user basis as part of the the users session startup? ii) When I open an Xterm on the Sparc 10, not all of the keys are recognised and some keys on the keyboard are not sending the correct characters. ie: real key key shown on screen ------------ ------------------- hash back slash tilde pipe double quote at symbol pound hash cursor key not recognised This is very annoying! Is X at fault here or the machine setup? I have installed the xterm drivers that came with X11R5 in both terminfo and termcap as they seemed more uptodate. Typing set in an xterm window shows a terminal type of xterm - as expected! Any help on how to correct either of these problems much appreciated! Thanks, Dave. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- JANET : D.Haywood@uk.ac.sheffield-hallam | Dave Haywood. or D.Haywood@uk.ac.shu | Computer Services, INTERNET: D.Haywood@shu.ac.uk | Sheffield Hallam University Telex : 54680 SHPOLY G | Pond Street, Tel : +44 742-533-828 | Sheffield. S1 1WB. ENGLAND. FAX : +44 742-533-840 | X.400:/I=D/S=Haywood/O=Sheffield-Hallam/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB X.500:@c=GB@o=Sheffield Hallam University@ou=Computer Services@cn=Dave Haywood ",5 "Re: Gun Control (was Re: We're Mad as Hell at the TV News) In article manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve Manes) writes: >hambidge@bms.com wrote: >: In article , manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve Manes) writes: > >: >: Rate := per capita rate. The UK is more dangerous. >: >: Though you may be less likely to be killed by a handgun, the average >: >: individual citizen in the UK is twice as likely to be killed >: >: by whatever means as the average Swiss. Would you feel any better >: >: about being killed by means other than a handgun? I wouldn't. >: >: >What an absurd argument. Switzerland is one-fifth the size of the >: >UK with one-eigth as many people therefore at any given point on >: >Swiss soil you are more likely to be crow bait. More importantly, >: >you are 4x as likely to be killed by the next stranger approaching >: >you on a Swiss street than in the UK. > >: You are betraying your lack of understanding about RATE versus TOTAL >: NUMBER. Rates are expressed, often, as #/100,000 population. >: Therefore, if a place had 10 deaths and a population of 100,000, the >: rate would be 10/100,000. A place that had 50 deaths and a population >: of 1,000,000 would hav a rate of 5/100,000. The former has a higher >: rate, the latter a higher total. You are less likely to die in the >: latter. Simple enuff? > >For chrissakes, take out your calculator and work out the numbers. >Here... I've preformatted them for you to make it easier: > > handgun homicides/population > ---------------------------- > Switzerland : 24 / 6,350,000 > UK : 8 / 55,670,000 > >.... and then tell me again how Switzerland is safer with a more >liberal handgun law than the UK is without...by RATE or TOTAL NUMBER. >Your choice. If you want to talk ""less likely to get killed with a handgun"" you'd have a point. ""Safer"" includes other things than simply handguns, and you can't conclude ""safer"" by ignoring them. Now if somebody's got the total homicide rates... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (Mail to VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu will bounce.) ""Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed."" - Lazarus Long ",16 "Re: Janet Reno on Nightline In article , finn@ISI.EDU (Greg Finn) writes: > > I am bothered by the suggestion of child abuse that Janet Reno > used several times last night, both on and off Nightline as a de facto > justification for approving the raid. If that is to be used as a > justification of potentially lethal force attack on the compound, and > doing structural damage can fairly be called that, then that evidence > had better be quite strong. That seemed to be on Ted Kopel's mind > last night. > > Reno stated that they had evidence of child abuse. She would > not say what it was. Koresh's now ex-lawyer was inside the compound > repeatedly and told her to her face last night that he saw plenty of > happy children playing with their mothers and no signs of child abuse > whatsoever. No brooding silent children, no apparent bruising, and so > on. Her reply to this was that child abuse is not always as evident > as that. True, but what better evidence could the FBI have had? At > this point it seems difficult to see how the FBI could have had better > evidence than that seen by Koresh's lawyer who was an eye witness. > > Having lived in LA and seen the media and authority feeding > frenzy that accompanied the McMartin Preschool debacle, I have seen > just how hot a button a child abuse charge can be. Child abuse has > been used before by authorities as a justification to discard prudence. > > I find Janet Reno's repeated assertions of evidence of child > abuse rather curious. Wasn't the warrant issued for a supposed > weapons violation? That certainly had nothing to do with child abuse. > Are we to assume therefore that new evidence of child abuse arose > after the issuance of that warrant and the initial assault? If so, I > fail to see now how that new evidence was gathered, and how it could > be better that on-site eye witness evidence. > -- > Gregory Finn (310) 822-1511 > Information Sciences Institute, Marina Del Rey, CA 90292 On TV news this morning it was reported that the local Texas authorities who have reviewed the cases of the 21 children who were released earlier in the siege have found no evidence of physical or sexual abuse of any of the children. I don't recall if this was on Good Morning America or our local Texas TV station. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Joe Gaut | In the super-state, it really does not | matter at all what actually happened. Remember the Alamo | Truth is what the government chooses to Remember Waco | tell you. Justice is what it wants to happen. --Jim Garrison, New Orleans, La. ",16 "Re: Lithium questions, Doctor wants my 10 year old on it... In article <93121.120223RFM@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: >[Someone writes:] >>I have a 10 year old son that lives with my ex-wife. She has been having >>difficulty with his behavior and has had him on Ritalin, Tofranil, and now >>wants to try Lithuim at the local doctors suggestion. I would like to >>know whatever is important that I should know. I worry about this sort of >>thing and would like pros/cons regarding Lithium therapy. >I get ""antsy"" about posts like this. Is the concern more for son or about ex-w >ife??? The standard impartial procedure is to ask for a second opinion >about son's condition. >Then too, is son ""acting out"" games between divorced parents???? Precisely. One wonders what unusual strain the boy might be under that could be causing ""difficulty with his behavior"". Standard practice would be to get a second opinion from a child psychiatrist. One would want to rule out the possibility that the ""bad behavior"" is not psychiatric illness at all. (Disclaimer: I am not a medic. But I am a parent.) -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",13 "Re: legal car buying problems In article jao@megatest.com (John Oswalt) writes: > [...] >However, if you agree some terms, and then, when about to sign, the >dealer slips you a contract with different terms, and leads you to >believe that it embodies the terms you verbally agreed to, that >is fraud. There is no 3 day limit on restitution for fraud. > >You may have to sue (and win) to get out of this. You will almost >certainly have to threaten to sue. >-- On the other hand, remember the old adage that a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Once you sign, you are going to have one hell of a time proving fraud based on a comparison to what you thought you were going to sign ... Being in the right is one thing, proving it is another. -- :-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-: | Brian G. Gordon briang@Sun.COM briang@netcom.COM | | B.GORDON2 on GENie 70243,3012 on CompuServe BGordon on AOL | :-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-: ",7 "windows imagine??!! I sent off for my copy today... Snail Mail. Hope to get it back in about ten days. (Impulse said ""a week"".) I hope it's as good as they claim... Jim Nobles (Hope I have what it takes to use it... :>) ",1 "Screen Death: Mac Plus/512 I have a (very old) Mac 512k and a Mac Plus, both of which have the same problem. Their screens blank out, sometimes after a minor physical jolt (such as inserting a floppy in the internal drive), sometimes all by themselves (computer left to itself just goes blank). I have replaced the wires connecting the logic boards and the video board, because it seemed at first that jiggling the wires made the screen come back on. This worked for a while, but the blanking out has returned. Can I do anything? Do I need a new power supply? A new CRT? A new computer? Thanks for any advice... -------------------------- Ethan Bodin Tufts University ebodin@pearl.tufts.edu -------------------------- ",4 "Re: Feds Caught in Another Lie kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes: >Well, after 2 days of hearing that 3 of the BD bodies had >been shot in the head (Horrors! Another Jonestown! Crazed >Cultists! Child Abusers! WHACKOS in Waco!), last night the >medical examiner was on TV and was pretty vehement in denying >that ANY of them had bullet wounds... he seemed just a tad upset >at the Feds for having spread that rumor. Funny, the medical examiner today stated that there was no evidence ONE WAY or ANOTHER that there were bullet wounds -- not a single autopsy has been performed, so all reports are deemed speculative. INCLUDING reports that there were NO bullet wounds. >Before long, I think all the kneejerk government apologists >are going to start getting pretty pissed off at how easily >they were misled. Before long, I think all the kneejerk conspiracy theorists are going to start getting pretty pissed off at how easily they mislead themselves. Also, pretty disappointed at being ignored by the coutnry. -- | The Koresh cult standoff is over ... may his victims Recquiescat in Pace | | | | (the above is a net.moment of silence) | Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract ",16 "Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT) In article <1993Apr20.124228.5357@ncsu.edu> chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler) writes: >>""Jeremy G. Mereness"" says: >>> >>>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in >>>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc? >> >Some other owners on the ford-probe@world.std.com mailing list have commented >about this problem, but I haven't seen it happen on my 3 month old >'93 Probe GT. I think this may be something that Ford has corrected since >the initial batch of cars. Also, someone said that Ford has issued a >service bulletin to inform dealers about how to correct this problem, so you >may be able to get your dealer to fix it. I have had my Probe looked at twice by my local dealer (where I purchased the car) ... the first time, they made this problem worse. The second time, after advising them of the service bulletin mentioned on my ford-probe mailing list (they said they didn't know of the bulletin), they adjusted the window and made it *much* better. However it now makes a ""scritch scritch"" noise on rough roads, and *still* squeals when I open/close the window in wet weather (anyone elses's do this?) >>Ford only gives 1 key with the car. C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies! I got two keys with my car, but only ONE remote-entry push-button thingie! But then, I bought my 93 with 2500 miles, and I think it may have been a repossession ... so I'm not surprised something was missing :-( >>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference) I am seriously considering following the advice in the owners manual where it describes the procedure to follow if ""you discover something on your Ford that could ... cause ... serious injury ... threaten lives ... etc). Something about notifying the National Traffic Safety group as well as Ford. Those little ""you've-got-to-position-the-fingers-perfectly-to-make-it-beep"" buttons are TERRIBLE. > >The latter is probably because of the air bag. It's pretty much takes up >all the space where you'd expect to find the horn. >Speaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one >of those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind. >The previous Probes had Japanese horns. Well, I guess that's good in a way, but in a way it's bad. When someone hears that kind of horn, they expect to see a big American car. They may not associate the sound with a small ""jap car"" style car (like the Probe is). >>Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car >Yeah, not very badly, but enough to be annoying sometimes. The mudflaps help a lot. >>transmission (the 5 speed is a must) I have always been a 5-speed guy. Almost every car I've ever owned has been a 5-speed. Because I got a good deal on this car with the 2500 miles, I (knowingly) overlooked the fact that it has an automatic. But it is a pretty high-tech automatic. It is a fully electronicaly controlled 4-speed with torque converter lockup. Even with the automatic, I'm getting 35 mpg on the highway, driving 65-70!. (but of course driving > 65 is illegal, so I probably made that sentence up). :-) Around town the mileage has been around 25-27, not bad for an automatic. Of course it doesn't have the ""control"" of a 5-speed, but since I do a lot of city driving, it turns out to be very convenient. It's nice to be able to drink a cup of coffee and drive at the same time (although that, too, is illegal here in ""we-like-to-control-your-life Massachusetts"" :-) >>No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!) Shakes and rattles has been my main gripe. I've gotten them to fix the worst of them, but I fear that with the rather harsh ride, the car will be a virtual potpouri of rattles when it gets older. >>Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-) On my 89 Probe GL, I got about 40K out of the original Goodyears, and had driven the replacement tires (Bridgestone) 50K miles when I tradeed the car. The 195/65(60?)VR14 Firestones on my 93 Probe look like they're designed for performance (ie rather wide, shallow tread, etc), so they probably won't last as long. But the car handles very very very well. It sticks to the road like glue, even on a rough surface. >interior is very, very nice too. Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically >sound. Definitely. Ford/Mazda did a very very nice job on this one. The car has a ""much more expensive than it actually is"" look and feel to it. >Yes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone. I personally like it, >but if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly >suggest looking into the MX-6. Having driven an 89 Probe for 4 years, I find the 93 suspension ""interesting"". The car actually drives much better than the 89 ... it is a very firm ride, and you definitely know about each and every bump in the road. Yet the car remains very civilized on even the bumpiest roads. You Hear and feel the bumps, yet the car retains its posture very well. >>If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too. They'll find >>that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides >>differently (if that's ""better"" is up to you). Well I wouldn't encourage passenger-carrying in the Probe unless the person in the front seat likes to sit with his knees to the dash. As mentioned in the Consumer Reports write-ups, ""consider the back seat as a parcel shelf"". No biggie to me though (if it had been, I'd not have bought the car! (but it's definitely not a family car)). >>Also, there's a lot of glass >>around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty >>hot in the summer. A/C is a MUST on any Probe from 89 - 93. The 93 in particular sends out a REAL BLAST of cool air when the AC is on MAX. That ""lots of glass"" you mentioned is what gives the car the ""very good visibility"" reports you see in all the write-ups. Most ""sports/sporty"" cars don't have that good visibility. >>I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine. >I haven't heard about this one. I know that some of the very early Probes >('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which The complaints I've heard re: exhaust system (on 93's) have been on the GT. Of course being a different engine, that is a differeent exhaust system. I was one of those with an 89 who qualified for the free replacement. Since I had already replaced the muffler when I received the notice, I was/am due a refund from Ford. I applied in February and am Still waiting. :-( >gave me a free rental car for the day and a half that I was without my >car. I was quite happy with the way they handled...especially considering >that I was expecting the worst from them! Yes. I was pretty amazed when I had my car in for some touch-up adjustments this past week, and they had to keep it overnight (too busy for them to get to it) and they offered to pay for a rental). They did make me pay for taxes and insurance though :-( >From what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with >the Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but >I think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point. That's >almost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though. I have to agree that they seem to have some QC problesm. But I seriously feel the car design is sound, and expect it to do very well. -- Bill Heiser heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com Boston University, Boston MA ",7 "Re: MR2 seats for sale In article <1993Apr26.193657.10019@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: >In article <1993Apr26.155800.29900@noao.edu>, groves@noao.edu (Lee Groves) writes: >> >>As the owner of an MR2, and having several friends who own them, >>I am very uncomfortable when I see an ad like this. >> ... >>When these seats are seen for sale, they are *most often* stolen. >>So it would be nice to see a statement saying where they came from. >> ... >>I'll give this seller the benefit of the doubt, but people should be ^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^ >>aware the the vast majority of MR2 seats on the market--especially >>those that are in Celicas--are stolen. >> >I am the original owner of the seats and the original poster. > >I take VERY serious offence in your statement. Me thinks thee dost protest too much.... 1/2 :-) > .... >Please in the future think before you make allegations like the above. He made no allegations, and specifically gave the seller the benefit of the doubt. He simply made the net aware of the fact that many of these seats are stolen, so watch out and ask questions when buying. That's good advice to follow when buying _anything_ from a third party, on the net or elsewhere. >It hurts. Touchy, touchy... >Mike.S -- Alex Ridgway ",7 "Could anyone answer this question??? I've heard it said that the accounts we have of Christs life and ministry in the Gospels were actually written many years after the event. (About 40 years or so). Is this correct?? If so, why the big time delay?? I know all scripture is inspired of God, so the time of writing is I suppose un-important, but I still can't help be curious! --------------------------------------------------- Ivan Thomas Barr Contact me at u9126619@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk [The Gospels aren't dated, so we can only guess. Luke's prolog is about the only thing we have from the author describing his process. The prolog sounds like Luke is from the next generation, and had to do some investigating. There are traditions passed down verbally that say a few things about the composition of the Gospels. There are debates about how reliable these traditions are. They certainly don't have the status of Scripture, yet scholars tend to take some of them seriously. One suggests that Mark was based on Peter's sermons, and was written to preserve them when Peter had died or way about to die. One tradition about Matthew suggests that a collection of Jesus words may have been made earlier than the current Gospels. In the ancient world, it was much more common to rely on verbal transmission of information. I think many people would have preferred to hear about Jesus directly from someone who had known him, and maybe even from someone who studied directly under such a person, rather than from a book. Thus I suspect that the Gospels are largely from a period when these people were beginning to die. Scholars generally do think there was some written material earlier, which was probably used as sources for the existing Gospels. Establishing the dates is a complex and technical business. I have to confess that I'm not sure how much reliance I'd put on the methods used. But it's common to think that Mark was written first, around 64 AD., and that all of the Gospels were written by the end of the Century. A few people vary this by a decade or so one way or the other. --clh] ",15 "Another travesty at the Joe Louis (Detroit, April 21) Most knowledgable observers once again watched in shock as the Detroit Red Wings again beat the best goaltender in the world six times en route to another easy victory over the best team in the NHL. For the best goaltender in the world, Felix Potvin, six was a bad number as he surrendered six goals and collected six minutes in penalties in reponse to the goon tactics employed by the inferior Red Wings team. Alan P.S. We told you this would happen, Roger. Didn't we? I love it..... ",10 "What RIGHT ? Recently, I've asked myself a rather interesting question: What RIGHT does god have on our lives (always assuming there is a god, of course...!) ?? In his infinite wisdom, he made it perfectly clear that if we don't live according to his rules, we will burn in hell. Well, with what RIGHT can god make that desicion? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that god creates every one of us (directly or indirectly, it doesn't matter.). What then happens, is that he first creates us, and then turns us lose. Well, I didn't ask to be created. Let's make an analogue. If a scientist creates a unique living creature (which has happened, it was even patented...!!!), does he then have the right to expect it to behave in a certain matter, or die...? Who is god to impose its rules on us ? Who can tell if god is REALLY so righteous as god likes us to believe? Are all christians a flock of sheep, unable to do otherwise that follow the rest? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I just want to point out that this is not sarcasm, I mean it. How should one deal with a man who is convinced that he is acting according to God's will, and who there- Jokke fore believes that he is doing you a favour by stabbing you in the back? -Voltaire ",19 "GUI builders for VMS I am looking for GUI Builders/UIMS's which run in a VMS/OpenVMS environment. I am interested in both Motif tools and GUI-independent tools such as XVT. My client also requires that the tool has been in production for at least 6 months in the VMS environment. Note that I have the list of tools from the FAQ, but not the info on VMS availability. Thanks ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mark D. Collier Southwest Research Institute Senior Research Analyst Automation and Data Systems Division Voice: (512) 522-3437 Data Systems Department FAX: (512) 522-5499 Software Engineering Section ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",5 "Re: What is a Shadow Mask Andrew BW Colfelt (colfelt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU) wrote: : : : Shadow mask is when you put your face into : main memory. : Keep your day job. ",3 "Re: what to do with old 256k SIMMs? In article <1ql7ug$i50@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au> johnh@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (John Haddy) writes: >In article <120466@netnews.upenn.edu>, jhaines@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason Haines) writes: >|> >|> I was wondering if people had any good uses for old >|> 256k SIMMs. I have a bunch of them for the Apple Mac >|> and I know lots of other people do to. I have tried to >|> sell them but have gotten NO interest. >|> >|> So, if you have an inovative use (or want to buy >|> some SIMMs 8-) ), I would be very interested in hearing >|> about it. > >The most practical use I've seen for them is as key ring ornaments :-) > >JohnH I used a bunch as weights, when building a model airplane. Hung them on the stringers, across the stringer, or whatever. Worked pretty well. Kelly ",12 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption In article , strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > Though I agree this is not the place to discuss guns, I note in passing that > a number of gun apologists seem to have ignored the words ""well regulated"" > in their distorted interpretations of the Second Amendment. Though David Sternlight pushes the envelope of credibility by claiming that talk.politics.guns is not the place to discuss guns, or the meaning of the Second Amendment, it seems he would rather post to millions of people out of relative ignorance of the subject than to follow the currently active threads discussing EXACTLY this topic which at least explore the fallacies of his erroneous claim, and at most explode them. Basic fact #1, Mr. Sternlight: The RIGHT described is a ""right of the people to keep and bear arms;"" not a ""right of the people to form a militia,"" a ""right of a militia to keep and bear arms,"" or a ""right of well-regulated people to keep and bear arms."" This should be apparent from a simple reading of the sentence. For the other arguments, I suggest you check out the thread, ""Some more about gun control,"" playing now in an alt.politics.usa.constitution near you. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Terminal forsale ",6 "Re: What is going on?... In article <1993Apr16.055100.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi) writes: ... > If you can't be bothered reading, get the video ""Manufacturing Consent"". > In reply to mail queries; I don't know if a video is available yet. I asked about a month ao and was told RSN. Several have also asked which of Chomskys books. My answer is ALL of them, and anything else you can get as well. How ever, due to irritations like the 24 hr day etc, I would say 'Manafacturing Conscent' first, them th last parts of 'Detering Democracy' ie the bits about the ""domestic 3rd world"". Chilling. Anyone at MIT have a good St. Noam bibliography? ~Paul ",11 "Re: Harry Caray In article <9500@blue.cis.pitt.edu> traven@pitt.edu (Neal Traven) writes: >Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch (kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu) wrote: >: In article <34592@oasys.dt.navy.mil> odell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bernard O'farmer Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball >: by the'Dell) writes: >: >I am not quite sure of the reasons, but the old man was certainly >: >not ""enraptured"" by ole Harry. > >: But maybe his wife was :-) > >: I don't claim to know whether it's true or not, but a couple different >: people (totally unrelated) have said Harry was 'relieved' of his duties >: because he had more than platonic relations with Augie Busch's wife. >: Judgement is left to the individual, cuz I sure don't claim to be an >: impeachable source in this case. > >Among those who have said it (well, not quite SAID it but certainly >alluded to it) is Bing Devine, Redbird GM or some other administrator at >the time. I heard Bing speak about it at last year's SABR National. > >BTW, have we had a show of hands about who will be attending this year's >SABR National in San Diego? I'll be there... >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >neal traven+@pitt.edu You're only young once, but you can be > traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu immature forever. -- Larry Andersen Harry talks about this ""incident"" in his autobiography ""Holy Cow."" Unfortunately, I can not clarify on this since (1) I read the book a couple of years ago and (2) I do not have my book with me. Anyway, It is a pretty interesting book if you are a Harry or Cubs fan. Rob ",9 "Re: Newspapers censoring gun advertisements I don't know what Traders is claiming, but it appears to me that the Oakland Tribune has censored gun ads in the past. Likewise for the San Francisco Chronicle, and I have never seen a gun ad in the San Francisco Examiner. Specifically, about a year ago on Thursdays, when Traders placed its ads, the Chron. ad would not have any graphics representing any handgun sale, though text could list it. The Trib. would run a graphic of a handgun. The Examiner would not have a Traders ad at all. Over the past year while Oakland politicians have made a lot of noise about measures to fight crime the Trib stopped taking the Traders ad, then started publishing it, but without any handgun graphic, then stopped, then started. Since the Trib. was sold some months ago it has not had the Traders ad. During one of these non-ad interludes a Traders employee told me that the Trib. had refused to take their ads. Yes, the usual Chron. Thursday ad was there today, with graphics representing rifles, safes, etc. as usual. Joan V ",16 "Re: bikes with big dogs In article <1993Apr14.212827.2277@galaxy.gov.bc.ca> bclarke@galaxy.gov.bc.ca writes: >In article <1993Apr14.234835.1@cua.edu>, 84wendel@cua.edu writes: >> Has anyone ever heard of a rider giving a big dog such as a great dane a ride >> on the back of his bike. My dog would love it if I could ever make it work. > >!!! Post of the month !!! >Actually, I've seen riders carting around a pet dog in a sidecar.... >A great Dane on the back though; sounds a bit hairy to me. Yeah, I'm sure that our lab would love a ride (he's the type that sticks his head out car windows) but I didn't think that he would enjoy being bungee- corded to the gas tank, and 65 lbs or squirming beast is a bit much for a backpack (ok who's done it....). I've bike like | Jody Levine DoD #275 kV got a you can if you -PF | Jody.P.Levine@hydro.on.ca ride it | Toronto, Ontario, Canada ",8 "Re: Bra... bra... brazing (Was: For JOHS@dhhalden.no... ) Old Nick (the little devil!) wibbles:- % % Tsk, tsk, tsk. Another newbie bites the dust, eh? They'll learn. % Newbie? Eh? Slap yer' credentials on the table, Pete. That'll show him! % % I'm terribly sorry. % And so you damned well should be... young whipper-snapper! It's wet kippers at ten paces if there's any repeat of this sort of thing! Now, in keeping with the grand tradition of wreck.moto, let's mutate! Take your partners by the hand... On Tuesday morning I spent a couple of hours (when I -should- have been working) with a torch, brazing bits of scrap metal over the biggest holes in Yamadog's exhaust pipes (s'mazin' what you can do with a couple of AA cells and a three-volt bulb!). I stuck some ""gun-gum"" into the smaller holes and bunged the pipes back onto the bike. So, last night I'm on the way home when lo' an' bloody behold, the sodding thing starts blowing again. I check it out and the gas is escaping from around the clamp holding the number two pipe into the port. As far as I can see (it being somewhat ""hole of Calcutta"" at the time!), the nuts are still there (stop that bloody sniggering, you at the back!), but the pipe is a bit loose. This morning I go out to the bike and pull out the socket-set to tighten up me' nuts (somebody give that spotty kid at the back a good slap round the back of the head!), and lo' an' bloody behold a-bloody-gen, I find that the outer skin of the pipe has separated from the inner sleeve right at the clamp-mating bevel. So, I stuff in a bit of baked-beanz can and a bit more of Mr Holts' very best ""gun-gum"" and come to work (late again!) so that I can ask of the oracle... Will a brazed joint hold that close to the exhaust port? Anybody tried it? Oh, and if anybody can tell me what the differences are between a 205 and a 207 brazing rod (made by ""Gaz"" [Yup! the camping folks. Surprised the marmalade outa' me, too!] in that place just off the Isle of Wight) I'd be eternally grateful (twenty-sodding-quid for two rods and I don't even know what I'm buying. Bloody kanji!). -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | John Little - gaijin@Japan.Sun.COM - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",8 "Re: Athiests and Hell In article REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes: >In article >ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes: >>In article REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov >writes: >>[much deleted] >>>point today might be the Masons. (Just a note, that they too worshipped >>>Osiris in Egypt...) >>[much deleted] >> >> It bugs me when I see this kind of nonsense. >> >> First, there is no reasonable evidence linking Masonry to ancient >>Egypt, or even that it existed prior to the late 14th century (and >>there's nothing definitive before the 17th). > [I'm going to cut ""Rex""'s ramblings down a bit.] [...] >You must not be past your 20th level. You should read Wilkinson's >Egyptians and how he shows this Egyptian religion paralleling his own British >Masonry. There is a man here at this laboratory who is a 33 degree black >mason. I've talked with him, [...] >There is the public side with motorcyle mania and >childrens hospitals and then there is the priviate side that only the highest >degree mason every learns of. Rex, there are literally hundreds of thousands of 32nd degree Masons in this country, and thousands of 33rds. If nasty stuff was really going on, don't you think you'd have more than a couple of disgruntled members ""exposing"" it? Heck, if what you say is true, then Rev. Norman Vincent Peale is an Osiris worshiper. [... Long quote from someone named Hislop (source not given) deleted. I'm attempting to extract from it the relevent points: * Osiris is actually Nimrod, a Babylonian Deity. * ""It is admitted that the secret system of Free Masonry was originally founded on the Mysteries of the Egyptian Isis, the goddess-mother, or wife of Osiris."" * The Babylonian Nimrod and Osiris are both connected with the building trade, ie, with Masonry. * Nimrod, as the son of Cush, was a negro. [isn't this refering to a Biblical Nimrod, rather than the Babylonian god?] * ...there was a tradition in Egypt, recorded by Plutarch, that 'Osiris was black'. ...] There is a long tradition in Masonry of claiming ancient lineage for the order, on the flimsiest of grounds. This dates right back to the Constitutions of 1738, which cite Adam as the first Mason. I've seen other claims which place Masonry among the Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians, and Atlanteans. I even have a book which claims to prove that Stonehenge was originally a Masonic temple. Claims prove nothing. Where's the beef, Rex? [...Claims ex-Mason showed him leopard skin he wore in lodge] > Any representation of Osiris usually show the wearing of some leopard. I'd have to check this. The tomb paintings I remember don't show this. > It is interesting that the Druids of Britian also show, or should I say > hide, this representation. They, however, worshipped the ""spotted cow"". Can you give ancient citations for this? The druids were suppressed over 2000 years ago. What's your point? This whole ""leopard skin"" business sounds bizarre. I have not yet gone through the Scottish Rite (which contains all of those ""higher degrees"" anti-Masons get so excited about, and which was invented in the 1750's), but I know enough people who have (and who are good Christians), that I reject your claim. >I'll stand by my statements. Masonry is of the ""mystery"" religions >that all find their source in Babylon, the great harlot. Sorry Peter, >I do not mean to be a ""cold slap to the face"" but there is to much Not so much a 'slap in the face' as 'a weary feeling of deja vu'. I'm going through a very similar argument over on soc.culture.african.american. >evidence to the contrary that Masonry doesn't find its origins in >Egypt. Of the Masons I have personally talked to, all refered to >Egypt as their origin. Why don't you try reading some serious books on Masonic history, such as Hamill's ""The Craft""? >Why are you now separating yourself from this which not many years ago, >was freely admitted? Because we got honest. If you can come up with actual evidence that Masonry existed prior to 1390, I'd be VERY impressed (actually, anything earlier than 1630 would be pretty good.) >-Rex Peter Trei ptrei@mitre.org Disclaimer: I do not speak for my employer. ",15 "Re: Viper Car Alarms mcrosbie@batman.bmd.trw.com writes: >In article , u1815@cs.uiuc.edu (Ronald E Garnett) writes: >> Hello auto enthusiasts! >> {Stuff Deleted} >> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that >> supposedly detects people approcahing the car.... >> >This is primarily for convertibles. I have a convertible and have looked at >this feature in detail. Alpine actually makes a better radar unit if you want >to get one of these. It has zones in it that can be shut down independently so >that if one side of your car has pedestrian traffic or something else that >would trigger an alarm, it shuts down the zone, or rather, pulls it in tighter. >I don't see the real benefit to these unless you have a convertible that you >leave the top down on. >Avoid the voice alarm that can be added to the radar package. It talks to >people as they walk by. I saw one installed on a Lotus Esprit. The kids would >taunt it seeing how close they could get before it 'warned' them to get back. >The owner finally disabled it, which defeats the purpose in my mind. {Stuff Deleted} >> Ron Garnett >> {More Stuff Deleted} >Merrill My neighbor runs a Viper(R) distributorship and installs them on all Saturns sold in my area (Anne Arundel County, MD). He has an SC with the Viper voice alarm installed. The alarm does everything, turn on the car, the radio, the heater, roll down windows, unlock the doors... The alarm goes off more frequently on hot days when a person walks by. It gets sensitive up to about 5 feet in 85degree heat. It isn't as bad as convetional siren alarms, because it doesn't continue to wail, it just says ""Protected by Viper, please stand back!"" And shuts up... (mainly because the person walks away befuddled!!!"") -- Chintan Amin mail: llama@uiuc.edu *******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA******** ",7 "Snes Games Forsale I have the following Snes Games forsale. The ones with * have instructions and the other ones have no instructions. *Romance of the Three Kingdoms II $25 *Populous $15 Legend of Zelda A link to the past $10 Soul Blazer $10 Please reply by e-mail to jth@bach.udel.edu. I ask for $3 for S&H for one game, if you buy more than one I still only need $3. Thanks, Jay . ",6 "Re: How to speed up games (marginally realistic) Pitchers are required to pitch (or feint or attempt a pick-off) within 20 seconds after receiving the ball, not 15. Pitchers are required to pitch their warm-up throws within a one minute time frame, beginning after each half inning ends, not two minutes. And the reason why a reliever should be allowed warm-ups is simple: Different mound, different catcher. Ryan Robbins Penobscot Hall University of Maine IO20456@Maine.Maine.Edu ",9 "MS-EXCEL SDK FOR SALE I have the following for sale. I won it at a raffle and have no use for it. Microsoft Excel Software Development Kit Version 4 for MS WIndows and the Apple Macintosh Contains - a 498 page book by Microsoft Press - 2 3.5"" floppy disks containing software/sample code - a poster of the api calls etc. Orig. price is US$ 49.95. I would like to sell it for the highest offer over $30 + shipping. Please email reply to attmail!akachhy Thanks Avinash Kachhy -- Avinash Kachhy attmail!akachhy ",6 "PCX from W4W ? Hi, folks, I have a question: How can I generate a PCX file using Word for Windows (2.0) ? I know I can select a Postscript printer driver to get a PS file, but how can I generate a PCX file ? Is there a printer capture utility for windows that ever exists ? Or a utility to transfer PS format to PCX format, or TIFF format? Please reply by E-MAIL, I will give a summary. Thanks. Shiyu Zhang SYZHANG@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU ",2 "Re: Clipper considered harmful From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) You obviously haven't read the information about the system. The chips put out serial number infomation into the cypher stream to allow themselves to be identified. The system does not rely on registering people as owning particular phone units. And probably as a back door to allow re-generation of the secret key. Have we determined yet that S1 and S2 don't ever change? G ",11 "Re: MGBs and the real world In article <1993Apr8.095119.5367@hasler.ascom.ch> kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch writes: > >Oh yeah, I had a 1975 1275GT Mini, and even before I did anything >to it, it could leave an MGB standing anywhere except, perhaps, on a long straight >motorway run at 90+. > >People who bought MGB`s bought them because they were an open topped sportscar >and embodied what people thought they should for an old fashioned traditional >brit. sportscar - not because they were great at anything. Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today. Small fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars. -- Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz -- Fujitsu New Zealand -- Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor. ""If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..."" they said. ",7 "Re: LCIII problems In article <1993Apr16.021225.19717@leland.Stanford.EDU> Ravi Konchigeri writes: > Finally got my computer fixed and I'd like to sum up. > > About hard drive companies: the original 160 meg drive that was bad (bad > sector or something) was an IBM. The new one is a Quantum. Is the LCIII > supposed to be shipped with IBMs? Is there a quality difference? > Apparently! :) > > Second, about hard drive position. I've put the LCIII on its side and > the new 160 HD has had no problems at all. I've even switched back and > forth between horizontal and vertical and there are no problems. As far > as I'm concerned I don't believe HD position is important for drives up > to 160 meg, in any computer. Don't know about CD-ROM, though. > > > ""Just like everything else in life, the right lane ends in half a mile."" > > Ravi Konchigeri. > mongoose@leland.stanford.edu Ravi, Its not a good idea to have a horizontally formatted hard disk in a vertical position. If the drive is formatted in a horizontal position, it can not completely compensate for the gravitational pull in a vertical position. I'm not saying that your hard disk will fail tomorrow or 6 months from now, but why take that chance? If you want more detailed info on the problem, please mail me at:===> sunnyt@dna.bchs.uh.edu <===. Sunny ",4 "Re: LCIII problems Ravi Konchigeri writes: >About hard drive companies: the original 160 meg drive that was bad (bad >sector or something) was an IBM. The new one is a Quantum. Is the LCIII >supposed to be shipped with IBMs? Is there a quality difference? Officially, no. From experience (yours now included!), yes. Quantums seem to be the most problem-free brand on the Mac. >Second, about hard drive position. I've put the LCIII on its side and >the new 160 HD has had no problems at all. I've even switched back and >forth between horizontal and vertical and there are no problems. As far >as I'm concerned I don't believe HD position is important for drives up >to 160 meg, in any computer. Don't know about CD-ROM, though. It should not matter for the hard drive or the Mac. Well, as long as it doesn't fall over. ;) Doug -- This Signature Under Construction -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Wyvern Technologies | Tidewater's Premier Online Information System | (804) 627-1818, login guest, password guest to register ",4 "Pascal-Fractals -- ||||||||||| ||||||||||| _|||||||||||_______________________|||||||||||_ jr0930@eve.albany.edu -|||||||||||-----------------------|||||||||||- jr0930@Albnyvms.bitnet ||||||||||| GO HEAVY OR GO HOME ||||||||||| ",1 "Re: Animation with XPutImage()? In article 4867@mlb.semi.harris.com, jmartin@egret.imagesRus (John Martin) writes: > Animation is most frequently done by copying the the client resident XImages into > server resident Pixmap(s) using XPutImage. Once this is done, the original XImages > can be deleted and the animation loop can be performed using XCopyArea from the Pixmaps to the windows drawable. > > Hope this is helpfull. > > John > I just implemented this and it seems I can just about achieve the display rates (20 400x400x8 frames / sec on IPX) that I get with Sunview, though it's a bit ""choppy"" at times. Also, loading the data, making an XImage, then XPut'ing it into a pixmap is a bit cumbersome, so the animation is slower to load than with Sunview. Is there a better way to load in the data? rgooch@rp.CSIRO.AU (Richard Gooch) writes: > If you need speed, and your client can run on the same host as the X server, > you should use the shared memory extension to the sample X server (MIT-SHM). > xdpyinfo will tell you if your server has this extension. This is certainly > available with the sample MIT X server running under SunOS. > A word of warning: make sure your kernel is configured to support shared > memory. And another word of warning: OpenWindows is slower than the MIT > server. > I have written an imaging tool (using XView for the GUI, by the way) which > yields over 10 frames per second for 512*512*8 bit images, running on a Sparc > IPC (half the cpu grunt of an IPX). This has proved quite sufficient for > animations. > > Regards, > > Richard Gooch.... Shared memory PutImage (also mentioned by nkissebe@delphi.beckman.uiuc.edu, Nick Kisseberth) looks interesting, but I need someone to point me to some documentation. Is this method likely to give better results than server- resident pixmaps? I'd also be interested in looking at the XView code mentioned above... Thanks for the help so far. If I get something decent put together, I'll definitely post it to the Net. ----------------------------------------------------------- | Derek C. Richardson | Tel: (0223) 337548 x 37501 | | Institute of Astronomy | Fax: (0223) 337523 | | Cambridge, U.K. | | | CB3 0HA | E-mail: dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk | ----------------------------------------------------------- ",5 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. David Sternlight writes: > I'd trust something from the NSA long before I'd trust something from > some Swiss or anbody Japanese. What??? This is an incredible statement! The NSA tried to suppress public key crypto and RSA, and yet they claim to encourage use of strong crypto for US citizens. Would you trust a black-box from the NSA versus an ""open system"" from elsewhere? /-----------------------------------\ | Karl L. Barrus | | elee9sf@menudo.uh.edu | <- preferred address | barrus@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXTMail) | \-----------------------------------/ -- /-----------------------------------\ | Karl L. Barrus | | elee9sf@menudo.uh.edu | <- preferred address | barrus@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXTMail) | \-----------------------------------/ ",11 "Re: When is Apple going to ship CD300i's? In article <1quod6$i3n@menudo.uh.edu> ln63sdm@sdcc4.ucsd.edu writes: > >The CD300 (external) is already shipping and has been shipping for quite awhile >now. Demand for the units are high, so they are pretty rare. I've seen them >listed for around $525-550 at local computer stores and the campus Mac >reseller. I've also heard rumors that they are bundled with a couple of CD's, I had mention in a previous article that I was searching for the 300 external drive. I did call Apple Catalog as recommended and they told me the drives were back ordered until May 8. I placed an order anyways and two days later I had a visit from Federal Express. Well, you can guess how I spent my weekend. Of course I ended up paying list price but you do get a free copy of PC Exchange when you order from the Apple Catalog. You may want to check if they have any internal drives. BTW, an older version of GateKeeper (I don't recall which version), hung up my Mac when trying to access a photoCD or audio disk. I got the newer version which did mention a conflict with the Apple 4.xx CD driver. ",4 "Re: Q700 at 34.5MHz, it's fine... In article , lee5@husc8.harvard.edu (Patrick Lee) wrote: > > menes@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Rainer Menes) writes: > > > >I wonder why nobody has ever tried to replace the oscilator only, like on a Mac IIsi. As I understand the Newer Variable Speed Overdrive is only hardware, and alittle init which is use to adjust the speed. My idear is to replace the cristal oscilator wit > h a socket and than I can change the oscilator very easy. This will be alot cheaper the the Newer Variable Speed Overdrive. I would gues only 20$ to 50$ are need to do the upgrade. > > >Does someone on the net ever tried this variant of speeding up the quadra 700?? In the May issue of C't Magazine was an article about upgrading 040 models of apple. They simply change crystals and add a fan. Hammerhead: Centris 610 was able to work with 25 MHz (cooler prefered) and for 1000 DM you get an 68040 (33MHz) which works with the appropriate crystal at full speed. (extra cooling required) Centris 650 like Quadra 700 with extra cooling 33MHz works on most machines and for real power enthusiasts they used a Quadra 950 at 40 MHz wow! But for better description you should get this issue of C't (a german PC magazine!) Christian Bauer bauer@informatik.uni-ulm.de ",4 "Re: How Redirect PRINT MANAGER To FILE? > / hpcc01:comp.os.ms-windows.misc / u7911093@cc.nctu.edu.tw (""By SWH ) / 9:58 am Apr 24, 1993 / > Hello, > > Who can tell me Where can I find the PD or ShareWare > Which can CAPTURE windows 3.1's output of printer mananger? > > I want to capture the output of HP Laser Jet III. > > Though the PostScript can setup to print to file,but HP can't. > > I try DOS's redirect program,but they can't work in Windows 3.1 > > Thankx for any help.... > > You CAN print to a file from an HP (or any other printer). Just go into the Printers section of your Control Panel. Select the printer you want to re-direct to a file, and click on Connect. Then choose :FILE as the port to connect the printer to. When you print from any application to that printer, Windows will prompt you for a file name for the file into which you want to capture the printout. It's pretty easy. Good luck! -.---. -.---. .--------------------------------------. |---' |---' . | Perry Reed | | .=..-..-.. . | `. .=..=..-| | perry_reed@hp0000.desk.hp.com | ' `- ' ' `-| ' ``- `- `-` |Be young, be foolish, be lucky in love| -' '--------------------------------------' ",2 "Re: Red Wings Goespel... F1HH@UNB.CA (Patrick Walker) writes: : Detroit's going to beat Toronto in 6 or LESS!!! : : Granted, Gilmour should get the Hart Trophy, NOT Lemieux... Just : Look at what Gilmour did for Toronto. When you think of Toronto, : who comes to mind, Gilmour, Andreychuk, Potvin...ah...did I mentio : n Gilmour? : When you think of the NHL, who comes to mind? Gilmour? Gretzky? Mario? .. ah... did I mention Mario? If you said Gretzky, you haven't really been following along, have you. If you said Gilmour, you are a true Maynard. I don't even think the selection of the HArt deserves serious discussion on this group. It is a no-brainer. dvb ",10 "Re: Christian meta-ethics In turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes: >In article mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes: > >> The issue, then, is this: >> >> Christian A says, ""Behavior such-and-such is sinful."" What is >> Christian B supposed to *do* with such a statement? >> >> One possibility *always* exists: A may be able to persuade B that the >> behavior in question *does* exhibit a failure in loving God or neighbor. > >Michael, modern liberal that he is, reads a fairly benign meaning >into this word. He then constructs his religious beliefs around >this understanding, reading *other* scripture in the context of >these commandments, with ""love"" benignly understood. I regard love as no more or less ""benign"" than any other Christian does. You are merely expressing ""approval"" of the consequences I find therein. Which says more about our politics and cultural trappings than about my (or any) religion. ""Love"" is a highly ambiguous word, of which Christians can write both the ""gentle"" words Paul uses of it in 1 Corinthians -- in a passage that even the ""conservatives"" will quote at you :-) -- and the words of T. S. Eliot in his Pentacost Hymn, ""Love is the unfamiliar Name that wove the intolerable shirt of flame ..."" This is in any case rather to the side of what I was attempting to raise in my note, as will become more evident below. >As a non-believer, I find Michael's Christianity kinder and gentler. blechhh. I think you are misreading me, rather seriously. Though, given my principle that one CANNOT force one's own notion of ""sin"" on another, and my unshakeable ""disestablishmentarianism"", Russel Turpin and others (believers and unbelievers alike) are under no threat of my legislating my own understanding of Christian love. >If I take him at >his word, he cannot condemn the Inquisitors, because they were >also following these commandments as *they* understood them. If You misread. I can do (and have repeatedly done) a complete bill of accusation against the Inquisition by exhibiting in as thorough a form as anyone might want a demonstration of the harm it has done to human beings (in the first place) and to respect for (let alone love of) ""God"" in near succession. Please go back to my quoted words above: The ""possibility that always exists"" is that I (or, to revert to proper time sequence, my predecessors over the last several centuries) could persuade ""Christian B"" of my case that the Inquisition *does* indeed constitute an egregious violation of the Law of Love. I must also note that the majority of Christians HAVE been so persuaded. By Christian argumentation, as well as by secular [both Christian and non-Christian] prohibitions. What Mr. Turpin alludes to is a trickier point: A. I demonstrate the human pain and violation of love involved in the Inquisition. B. The Inquisitor responds that Mother Church must, however painful this *seems*, ""discipline"" her children for their own good -- in this case the salvation of their souls (or if the tortured heretic will not recant, than by bad example ""deterring"" others from the same loss-of-soul.) A. I point out that this ""justification"" of a failure in love depends on a highly speculative construal of texts and of philosophical assertions that are quite undemonstrable. B. Burns me at the stake. My rhetoric has failed, but the point I am making is sustained. What is going on here has a *lot* to do with ""cultural baggage."" In this case, the baggage includes a (nearly universal, and absolutely secular) belief that an accused person must prove innocence and that testimony is most believable if taken under torture. The elimination of Inqisitorial practice (in those places where it *has* been eliminated, or at least greatly reduced) has very little, if anything, to do with the discussion of sin in the exchange between A and B. Mr. Turpin is pointing out that, if I am A versus the Grand Inquisitor's B, then my persuasion is not very likely to work. I know this; and in what- ever personal agony, I consign the issue to God and my ghostly defense attorney. So, ""one possibility"" fails in this case -- as it will fail in may others. At the other extreme, the ""persuasion"" will succeed when it properly SHOULD not, if it entails mistaken assumptions I share with the Inquisitor. And that is potentially an even more troubling case, in that many of the victims of Inquisition will have ""accepted"" that they were in fact sinful (in such random cases as they may actually have been guilty of charges brought against them.) The point is that the ""persuasion"" breaks down when the parties do NOT share enough to agree on all the cultural baggage -- and given the main thrust of the Inquisition, against ""heresy"", it is *bound* to break down in precisely the ""worst"" cases. The ""conservative"" (I don't think that is the right word, BTW) will take refuge in what I attribute to B above, that he is ""justified"" in causing harm because he *thinks* that works to a ""greater good."" But this is a violent and extravagant REFUSAL to follow the gospel, as if one's theories about ""sin"" entitled one to cast aside Jesus' words on dealing with sinners (cf. Matthew 5:39ff). I am a ""radical"" Christian *only* in that I take the gospel seriously. >(Or, for that matter, what does it mean to love one's fellow >man?) And what is the ""right thing""? And how does one go about >loving god? Well, the whole *point* of making these the ""base"" commandments is that they *aren't* reducible to rules. A set of rules is a moral code or a law code or an algorithm for acting. Such things can be very helpful to individuals or societies -- but not if they are used *instead* of a personal involvement in and responsibility for one's actions. The Great Commandment is, more than anything else, a call to act *as if you were God and accepting ultimate responsibility* in your every action. A demand that I, like most, would rather *not* hear, but it keeps popping up nonetheless (along with the reassurance that it is more important that I be open to trying this, than succeeding at it). ""Conservatives"" may twist this ""act as if you were God"" to mean ""lay down rules for other people and be as nasty to them as possible if they don't keep YOUR rules."" They are so insistent (and obvious) about this that they have convinced a lot of people (who rightly reject the whole concept!) that such idiocy IS how God acts. That, after all, is the standard accusation ""against God"" by the atheists here and elsewhere. That the ""conservatives"" have confused THEIR manipulative, hoop-jumping notions of coercing other people with the Nature of God is almost the entire content of standard American atheism -- and I quite agree with it on this point. >Ethical systems are not differentiated by the nice sounding goo >up front, much of which sounds pretty much the same, but by the >*specific* acts, procedures, and arguments that they recommend. And different bodies of Christians have, from the beginning, urged *different* ""ethical systems"" (or in some cases, none). As a result, it is bizarre to identify any one of these systems, however popular (or infamous) with Christianity. Christianity DOES NOT HAVE A TORAH. It does not have a QU'RAN. Specifically Christian scripture has very little, if anything, in the way of ""commandments"" -- so little that the ""Christians"" who desperately *want* commandments go ""mining"" for them with almost no support (and thus almost no obvious limitation :-)) for their efforts. The one, single, thing in the gospels which Jesus specifically ""gives"" as ""a commandment"" to us is ""love one another."" [I will be expanding on this point in a reply to Paul Hudson that I hope to get to in a day or so -- it is quite true that SOME Christians infer LOTS of commandments from the NT; I'll point out what has to be going on in these inferences, and why there is a huge amount of ""cultural baggage"" involved.] You are quite right that this is ""goo"" if one is looking for an ethical system. But why should anyone BE looking for an ethical system, since our society is eager to hand us one or more no matter what we do? It may be that we need a principle for the CRITIQUE of ethical systems -- in which case I will profer the _agapate allelou_ once again. >I am glad that a few Christians, >such as Michael, find a benign meaning for the goo, and then >interpret the usually ugly specifics in a more constructive >fashion. On the other hand, I do think that this tells us more >about Michael and Christians like him that it tells us about >Christianity. I think you are begging the question. Why don't I and the (myriads of) other Christians like me tell you something about Christianity? [Nor is this very new in Christianity -- you might want to look up the origins and fundamental doctrines of the Quakers, from the 17th century onwards, and they are not at all the first to understand the gospel in a manner that is congenial to my case.] -- Michael L. Siemon I say ""You are gods, sons of the mls@panix.com Most High, all of you; nevertheless - or - you shall die like men, and fall mls@ulysses.att..com like any prince."" Psalm 82:6-7 ",19 "Re: Serdar Argic In <1993Apr13.194543.225925@fourd.com> bill_paxton@fourd.com writes: >Hello Serdar, > I would like very much to meet you. Where are you located? >Let me know as soon as possible where we can meet. I am looking forward to >meeting you. I don't know how to reach Serdar, but you might be able to reach his sysadmin by email, phone, or snail-mail. Here is information from rs.internic.net: Ahmet Cosar (ANATOLIA-DOM) 1530 S. 6th St. Suite C705 Minneapolis, Minnesota, 55454 Domain Name: ANATOLIA.ORG Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Cosar, Ahmet (AC234) cosar@ANATOLIA.ORG 612-376-7873 And here is what ""finger cosar@umn.edu"" gets you: name: Ahmet Cosar-1 info: Last registered 1993 Winter Qtr Internet mailbox: cosa0001@student.tc.umn.edu other mailbox: PROFS: COSA0001@UMNTCML postal address: 1530 So 6th St Apt C705 Minneapolis MN 55454 surname: Cosar telephone: +1 612-376-7873 title: Grad userid: cosa0001 X.400 mailbox: /G=Ahmet/S=Cosar-1/OU=mail/O=tc/PRMD=umn.edu/ADMD= /C=us/ -- /|/-\/-\ |__/__/_/ |warren@ / nysernet.org ",17 "Re: Desertification of the Negev This is nonsense. I lived in the Negev for many years and I can say for sure that no Beduins were ""moved"" or harmed in any way. On the contrary, their standard of living has climbed sharply; many of them now live in rather nice, permanent houses, and own cars. There are quite a few Beduin students in the Ben-Gurion university. There are good, friendly relations between them and the rest of the population. All the Beduins I met would be rather surprised to read Mr. Davidson's poster, I have to say. -Danny Keren. ",17 "Re: Car Stereo Stolen? In article xray@is.rice.edu (Kenneth Dwayne Ray) writes: >> I had the front panel of my car stereo stolen this weekend. > >> I need to buy the front panel of a Sony XR-U770 car stereo. >> >I was my understanding that the purpose of those removeable-front-panels >were to make the radio useless, and thus discourage theft (that is if the >cover were removed by the owner and taken along whenever the car was left.) > >If those covers were sold for anything remarkably less than the radio >originally costs, or even sold at all, >then the above discouragement wouldn't be so great. > >I personally would be unhappy, if I bought a radio like that, thinking that >removing the cover greatly depreciated the radio's value, and the covers were >sold by the company (or other legitimate source) cheaply. >-- The front covers should be available from Sony. Check with a local car stereo shop. You will probably (definitely) have to provide the units serial number and hopefully you had registered the warranty card. I don't know the cost, but replacements have to be available to people who damage the face cover, so it stands to reason that it can be replaced. As to deterring theft: When I worked for a stereo shop, we referred the customer to a Sony 800 number. We would not sell the face, nor did we have them available. Most people who came in asking for the face cover (or a pullout sleave for that matter) would look very disheartened to find that they acquired a deck they couldn't use. If theft occurs with these decks, notify Sony. Serial numbers do catch theives. Just a thought, Michael ",6 "Re: your opinion of the LaserWriter Select 310? My wife has one of these. I have not had much chance to fiddle with it, but in comparison to our Laserwriters with Canon engines, she complains that the print is too light for her taste. The difference is quite apparent even when the print setting on the Select 310 is adjusted to the darkest possible level. I don't find it objectionable, and indeed rather like it, but be warned that some people don't care for it and it is considerably different. I recall that years ago there were lots of debates over write-black vs. write-white engines when dealing with TeX drivers. Is something like that going on here? ",4 "Re: Am I going to Hell? In article stoney@oyster.smcm.edu (Stanley Toney) writes: > Muslims, i fear have been given a lie from the >fater of lies, Satan. They need Christ as do us all. > >stan toney stoney@oyster.smcm.edu >my opinions are my own, you may borrow them just picked out this one point because it struck me.... why do you believe this? muslims believe in many of the same things that christians and jews believe; they believe jesus, while not the messiah, is a prophet. this seems to me to be much closer to christianity than other religions are. (then again i tend to be somewhat liberal about others' beliefs.) this also relates to the serbian ""ethnic cleansing"" question. i have been waiting for condemnations of this and have seen very few. HOW can we stand by and watch innocent people, even people whose beliefs we condemn, if this is the case (and don't get me wrong, the things fundamenalist muslims have to say about women make my blood boil), be tortured, raped (the stories about that made me physically ill), and killed? jesus loves all, not just those who love him back -- and he would advocate kindness toward them (in the hopes of converting them, if that's the way you want to put it) rather than killing them. i'm sorry i got off the subject here -- maybe i should have used a different title. i did need to get this off my chest, however. peace (shalom), vera shanti _______________________________________________________________________________ Hand over hand noye@midway.uchicago.edu Doesn't seem so much (Vera Noyes) Hand over hand Is the strength of the common touch drop me a line if you're in the mood - Rush, ""Hand Over Fist"" _______________________________________________________________________________ [I am also worried about this issue. I've made a posting under my own name earlier today. I do not much want to discuss Moslem beliefs here. This isn't the right group for it. Their beliefs about Jesus appear to come as much from the Koran as the Bible. This means that while they honor him, what they think he did and stood for differs in many ways from Christian beliefs about him. But Moslem beliefs are an appropriate topic for soc.religion.islam. As I'm sure you know, many Christians believe that you must accept Christ in order to be saved. While Stanley's comment appears to be anti-Moslem, I would assume he would say the same thing about all religions other than Christianity. --clh] ",15 "Re: Why do people become atheists? In article gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock) writes: [much stuff deleted] >Now I have a question for Bob. Why in the world would any self-respecting >atheist want to subscribe to a Christian news group? I have a >difficult enough time keeping up with it, and I think I know something >about the subject. excuse me, but what makes you think that just because he's atheist he doesn't know anything about christianity???? in my (albeit limited) experience atheists are often the ones who know _more_ about the bible, having searched it from end to end for answers. i myself am a christian, but that doesn't mean i consider myself more of an authority on my religion -- i just have a different perspective on it (more biased in favor, naturally :) ). it seems quite obvious why he is subscribed, if i may infer from what he says: he is looking for an explanation. who are we to question his motives anyway -- at the very least (although i dislike this kind of logic), one could hope that he will ""see the light"". critcism will, i fear, not give him a very positive picture of christians.... >Bob reminds me of my roommate. In order to disbelieve atheism, he says >he will need to be proven wrong about it. Well, I don't even waste >my time trying. I tell him that he'll just have to take my word for it. >In response, he tells me he will say an ""atheist's prayer"" for me. with regard to this, i guess i don't really feel sentiments of this order can be proven -- faith has a lot to do with it. this is why those who search the bible from cover to cover for answers won't necessarily get what they're looking for. of course that doesn't help anyone who doesn't already have faith -- what a big catch 22. i discovered this quite recently when i ran into an agnostic looking for an explanation of my faith and i quickly discovered that i could give him nothing more than my life story and a description of my nature. faith is a very personal thing -- any attempt to ""prove"" the ""facts"" behind it must be questioned. >Good luck, Bob. And, best regards. likewise -- no matter what you believe. >-- >Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock >Catechist >gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu ******************************************************************************* I am your CLOCK! | I bind unto myself today | Vera Noyes I am your religion! | the strong name of the | noye@midway.uchicago.edu I own you! | Trinity.... | no disclaimer -- what - Lard | - St. Patrick's Breastplate | is there to disclaim? ******************************************************************************* ",15 "Re: Peace Talks Resume In article <2BDD9DFC.13587@news.service.uci.edu> Tim Clock writes: [TC] Do you, as I do, agree that this (sort) of ""peace process"" is needed? [TC] What about the particular points mentioned in the article? Is what [TC] Israel is (supposedly) going to propose ""good""? Does it go too far? [TC] Not far enough? [TC] If you don't agree that a ""peace process"" is needed, what is? I personally think that a peace process is needed, since only through negotiations will the future generations be able to live in stability. Unfortunately not all think like this, we have cases like: Anas Omran, Hamza Saleh, Jle, Mohammed Reza, Mehmed Abu-Abed, Anwar Mohammed and others who think that JIHAD is the only solution. I wish that people (including myself) would have more objective views like Tim, Basil and Shai for example and put the rhetoric aside and start discussing ""substance"". My view is that Israel has made more gestures towards its Arab foes than the opposite. What have the Sysrians given to us or proposed? What have the Palestinians proposed? If the Palestinians would just revoke or rewrite their charter, or just condemn acts of Palestinian violence that would be a good start. The Palestinians have all to gain from these negotiations. Its seems though that they are not strong enough to make decisions on their own and are plagued by internal strife, that is why we are not getting anywhere. Fundamentalism is slowly taking over in the territories, then it will be too late to discuss issues with the Palestinians since they will only vow for the destruction of Israel. Arabs must take example on Egypt. Egypt came to the bargaining table, got what it wanted from Israel and there is now peace and cooperation between the two countries. The tougher you play ball with Israel the tougher Israel gets. Tsiel Tsiel -- ----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------ Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible. opinions, if any ! | Two percent of zero is almost nothing. ",17 "Re: Deification In article HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com writes: >Aaron Bryce Cardenas writes: >After all, what does prophesy mean? Secondly, what is an Apostle? Answer: >an especial witness--one who is suppose to be a personal witness. That means >to be a true apostle, one must have Christ appear to them. Now lets see >when did the church quit claiming ......? Actually, an apostle is someone who is sent. If you will, mailmen could be called apostles in that sense. However, with Jesus, they were designated and were given power. Remember that there were many thousands of people who witnessed what Jesus did. That didn't make them apostles, though. Joe Fisher ",15 "Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles In article <20726.2bcd8b62@ecs.umass.edu> sylveste@ecs.umass.edu writes: Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v. This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon. Very rare also. Mike Sylvester Umass Being a satisfied Audi owner (-90 100 turbo quattro. my 4:th Audi) I get the free VAG magazine. The latest issue presented a new S4 Avant (wagon) with a 4.2 litre V8. I'd like one of these ;-) Btw, this is my second quattro and my third turbo and I must say that even in the summer, with dry roads, the quattros give so much extra in road holding and balance that I hope I can afford them always. Thomas -- Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE Snail mail: Communicator Nexus AB Phone: +46 18 171814 Box 857 Fax: +46 18 696516 S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden ",7 "Looking for MOVIES w/ BIKES Folks, I am assembling info for a Film Criticism class final project. Essentially I need any/all movies that use motos in any substantial capacity (IE; Fallen Angles, T2, H-D & the Marlboro Man, Raising Arizona, etc). Any help you fellow r.m'ers could give me would be much `preciated. (BTW, a summary of bike(s) or plot is helpful but not necessary) Thanx -Erc. _______________________________________________________________________________ C Eric Sundheim csundh30@ursa.Calvin.edu GrandRapids, MI, USA `90 Hondo VFR750f DoD# 1138 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",8 "Re: How large are commercial keys? butzerd@maumee.eng.ohio-state.edu (Dane C. Butzer) writes: > Finally, can anyone even concieve of a time/place where 128 bit keys aren't > sufficient? It depends on the algorithm used. 128-bit secret keys for RSA are definitively not secure enough. Regards, Vesselin -- Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226 Fachbereich Informatik - AGN < PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany ",11 "Re: Why I wanted police officers to answer my posting In article csundh30@ursa.calvin.edu (Charles Sundheim) writes: >viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes: >>and copped an attitude when he was stopped? Speaking as a guy >>who recieved a *verbal warning* for 146mph in a 55, I just have to laugh. > In Shreveport, back when I was riding the Purple Water Buffalo, I jumped an intersection IN FRONT OF A COP who was waiting for the light! The side of the street he was on was hidden buy a building on the corner and I didn't see him till I was airborne in the middle of the intersection. I was parked, had my helment off and my liscence out before he turned the corner. He chewed my ass out and let me go! I will be the first to admit it was a very squidly thing to do, jumping the intersection like that. The cop should have nailed me. I find that if you are polite, respectfull and honest, they will normaly let you get away with a LOT of stuff. P.S. The shock mounts folded up the next day. I guess I deserved that! ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====---- Stolen Taglines... HEY! Where did they go? You don't think .... naahh. ",8 "Re: Forcing a window manager to accept specific coordinates for a window In article ethan@cs.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: |> |> Hi. I'm trying to figure out how to make a window manager |>place the window where the create window command tells it, |>regardless of what it may think is right. (my application has |>reason to know better) |> |> I don't want to set the override-redirect because I do |>want all the embellishments that the window manager gives, I just |>want the wm to accept my choice of location. What ""it may think is right"" may be exactly what the user wants. Assuming that your application ""has reason to know better"" is, IMHO, anti-social. If I start your application with a -geometry option are you going to ignore that as well? There's really no way to force a window manager to do much of anything if it's managing your window. You can ask, you can hint, but there's no guarantee that you're going to get what you want. -- Tom LaStrange toml@boulder.ParcPlace.COM ",5 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article <12MAY93.20580569@edison.usask.ca> f54oguocha@edison.usask.ca writes: >In a previous article, sadek@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mohamed.s.sa >>I.................. the senate. >> >>Condemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans >>and calling that ""moral rape"". >> >>He went on to say that the reason for that is ""out right religious BIGOTRY"" >> > >Mohamed, > >What has he got to say about the carnage and genocide in our own SUDAN? >The two scenarios must be viewed from the same perspective or don't you >think so? well, methinks. no flames intended!!! > >oguocha > > >>Mohamed I too noticed that in all this screaming and shouting, not one person brought up the question of atrocities being commited on non-muslims by the Sudanese Government. Could it be that they are Africans and so who cares? I suggest that everyone cut the hypocrisy and bleating about Bosnia and go on to discuss something even more meaningless. The report below shows that the Sudanese are acting in the finest traditions of Islamic law as expounded by some die-hard people on the net (who shall remain nameless). Sudan ----- Government troops 'steal women, children' WASHINGTON - Government troops in Sudan are involved in massacres, kidnapping and the transporting of forced labor into Libya, according to a State Department document declassified Wednesday. The report compiled by the U.S. embassy in Khartoum said government forces, particularly Arab militias organized as the Popular Defense Forces, ""routinely steal women and children"" in southern Sudan. ""Some women and girls are kept as wives, the others are shipped north where they perform forces labor on Kordofan (central Sudan) farms or are exproted, notably to Libya,"" it said. ",17 "Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu? In article <1993Apr14.222601.21160@cabell.vcu.edu> csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes: > > >After reading my local paper today, I found out that the Phillies >started the 1964 season at 10-2. I am not as old as 1964, but I've >heard many talk about the serious choke job the Phillies did that >season. They were ahead of the Cardinals by 15 games that season in >mid-August. They managed to lose a bunch from then on and the >Cardinals took the division. 15!!! games ahead and lost it.... I >hope this season is MUCH different. > I don't. --Shannon ""Cardinals fan"" Kohl ",9 "Wanted: 286 motherboard, VGA card I am looking for a 286 motherboard, preferable 12 or 16, 640k or 1 meg RAM. I am also looking for a VGA card. Am willing to trade 1200 external, 5.25"" LD Drive, 8088 motherboard, monochrome monitor, Game Boy, in some combination for the above. Libertarian, atheist, semi-anarchal Techno-Rat. I define myself--tsa@cellar.org ",6 "Good Hands (Was Re: Apology for Article) In article stevet@eskimo.com (Steven Thornton) writes: [stuff deleted] >Mattingly scores badly on both counts. He doesn't get to very many >balls, and he lets a lot of balls go through. The fact that he ""looks >smooth"", ""has great hands"", and makes few errors means NOTHING. This is >traditional brainless reliance on observations that can easily be >misled. Like a lot of bad fielders, Mattingly actually makes himself >look better by not having any range. He's nowhere near as bad as Steve >Garvey, but that's not much of a compliment. I agree with the flavor of this post, but disagree with one specific argument. That ""has great hands"" means nothing. It seems to me that a first-baseman's defensive value is not entirely (or even primarily) from his ability to field grounders or catch popups. How many such chances does he get during a game? Many fewer than he gets chances to catch throws from 2B,SS,3B and P (I mean the total of these is much higher than Grounder/Popup totals). This implies to me that there is value in catching these throws well, even if they are high, up-the-line or in the dirt. ""Good Hands"" are needed for such plays, and thus have value. I don't have any numbers for the relative number of occurences of these plays, but I'd guess that the values of these abilities are similar. It's just like: you don't judge catcher's defense primarily on how they field bunts and popups. (But not as marked I suppose). Michael ",9 "Saudia cannot even control UPI despite buying it :-) clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI) writes: This is a very impotant update, I will omit just a few lines, and add some ""overhead"" for the sake of the copyright :-) I say despite all the bad news for Muslims around the world, things are shaping up very well, a lot of killings might happen in the near future, though (as if Bosnia is not a lot). Right now, I feel like saying what Martillo said : ""the stage is set"". I don't think that things will be the same in ten year, On the pessimistic/realistic side, we can only see the stage set for more wars imposed on our people, and governments being remote controlled. to fight each other and to oppress their own people, but I am confident they will all fall: I venture to list the order: Sudan/Yemen alliance, Algeria/Libya in 5 years, Tunisia one year later but Egypt may face direct colonization very soon to prevent an Islamic government which might take over after Egypt attacks SUdan and is envolved in atrocities there as it fails to achieve victory. Meanwhile Saudia faces a civil war and goes to war with Yemen/Sudan over it, The new North African Alliance (Algeria/Tun/Libya) goes to war with Morocco who attacks it. U.S/France involved everywhere but cannot concentrate on one place, especially that Syria/Jordan/Iraq have to be kept under control. After the cloud clears, I do not know what the end result will be, O.K back to reality: CAIRO, Egypt (UPI) -- The Cairo-based Arab Organization for Human Rights (AOHR) Sunday called on King Fahd of Saudi Arabia to order the release of members of the kingdom's first human rights group. ..... > Among those group wants released was Mohamed Ben Abdullah Al Masaari, spokesman of the Committee for the Defense of Legitimate Rights (CDLR). Al Masaari was arrested just before dawn Saturday at his residence in Riyadh's King Faisal University, where he worked as a physics professor, >human rights and media sources reported. The media reports said Saudi security forces also seized publications, books, correspondence and other documents and papers from Al Masaari's residence. He was reportedly taken to an unknown >destination. The London-based Liberty human rights group claimed that the other >five members who together with Al Massari formed CDLR on May 3, were summoned for police questioning and might have been detained as well. On Thursday, the Saudi government ordered the firing and disbarment of the six activists because they established the group urging people in >the kingdom with grievances to report to CDLR. > Four of the activists were sacked from their positions with two state-run Saudi universities and two government departments, and two >lawyers, including Al Masaari's father, were disbarred and their law >offices were closed, the AOHR said. > The other lawyer, Suleiman Al Rashoudi, was described by AOHR as the >first ever to practice law in the kingdom. > AOHR also claimed that about 400 other people might have been >arrested around the country in connection with the CDLR. They were >apparently people who have either responded to the group's call for >reports on grievances or others closely linked to the founders. > Saudi authorities were reported to have also been angered by reports >that Al Masaari and others have met with U.S. diplomats based in Riyadh. ........ > The kingdom's highest religious authority, the Higher Council of >Ulema (Muslim scholars), Wednesday condemned the creation of the rights >group as illegal and unnecessary and warned of what it called >``regrettable ramifications'' the establishment of CDLR could have. > AOHR, whose 1992 report listed human rights violations in Saudi >Arabia, criticized the Ulema's position and argued that the kingdom's >Islamic laws and courts did not preclude the creation of human rights >groups. ",17 "Re: National Sales Tax, The Movie In article <9304151442.AA05233@inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com> blh@uiboise.idbsu.edu (Broward L. Horne) writes: > [purile babble deleted] Well, some form of guaranteed health care isn't a bad idea, but, yah, I'm a bit worried of a gubnint-run HMO myself. I'd much rather have something like Canada has [and I'll *belt* anyone who tells me to move to Canada :)], but since people will yell and scream ""NO!!! NOT ONE LIKE CANADA HAS!!!"", we're probably all screwed. > BROMEISTER PREDICTED: > > "" $1,000 per middle class taxpayer in NEW TAXES "" > > "" A NATIONAL SALES TAX "" Impressive. Let the ""GREAT CHUCKMEISTER"" make a couple predictions, if you will: 1. The sun will rise tomorrow. 2. Rush will bash Clinton on his next show. 3. I will turn out to be Clinton's love child. Chances are, I'll get at least one of those right, if I'm lucky. I may even get two. > Now, for more AAMMMAAAAZZZZZZIINNNNGGGGG Predictions! > > i) The NST will be raised from 3% to 5% by 1996. > Ooops. They ALREADY DID it. > > Okay, then. The NST will be raised from 5% to 7% by 1996. Can't argue with you there. Once the gubnint has its hands in yer pocket, they just can't help but feel around a bit.... > ii) Unemployment will rise! Oh, no SH**?! You mean, our weakened economy will collapse in the face of all this gubnint tax-and-spending, and everyone will be in the handout line? You're a GENIUS!! > iii) Tax revenues will decline. Deficit will increase! > We'll get another DEFICIT REDUCTION PACKAGE by 1997! > Everyone will DANCE AND SING! Deficit reduction. Spending cuts via fee increases? > To paraphrase Hilary Clinton - "" I will not raise taxes on > the middle class to pay for my programs "" > > To paraphrase Bill Clinton - "" I will not raise taxes on > the middle class to pay for my programs "" No, any first-year PoliSci major will tell you that the Prez *never* raises taxes. Congress does it. All those who voted the Clinton ticket get to wear this *new* label..... +----------------+ | SUCKA! | | | | Made in USA | +----------------+ Hook, line, and sinker! *chuckle* cpk -- It's been 80 days. Do you know where your wallet is? Slick Willy's already got his hand in my pocket. I'm just afraid of what he might grab hold of. ",18 "Re: Some more about gun control... In article <1993Apr16.162447.26289@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham) writes: > In article <1qicep$obf@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: > >In article <1993Apr14.232806.18970@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham) writes: re: is ""John Q. Public with a gun"" protected? > >> It's worth noting that US vs. Miller sustained Miller's conviction > >> of possession of an illegal firearm, noting that a sawed-off shotgun > >> was not a proper militia weapon. > >No, they noted that no one had CLAIMED that it was a proper militia > >weapon (despite having been used in at least two wars). This was true, > >since neither Miller nor his lawyer appeared before the Court. > Did they or did they not sustain Miller's conviction? I don't have the > text of the case handy. Miller was convicted of owning a sawed-off shotgun and not paying the NFA '34 tax. Snatches of the court's decision: The Second Amendment was intended to ""assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such a force [the militia]... It must be interpreted and applied with that end in view."" The militia includes ""all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense."" However, regarding sawed-off shotguns, ""certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense."" ""Judicial notice"" is the term of art here -- it meant that no such evidence had been formally presented. This is different from claiming that they had ruled that it wasn't. > Yes, shotguns had been used in WWI, the Spanish-American War, and the > US Civil War. That was not in question. The possession of a sawed-off > shotgun was, i.e., a weapon altered to improve concealibility. I'm not talking about plain shotguns in war -- I'm talking about short- barrelled (""sawed-off"") shotguns in war. Compare Revolutionary War blunderbusses; luparas in the Spanish-American War; and trench-cleaners in WW I. They were also put to good use by US soldiers in WW II, not to mention being invaluable to ""tunnel rats"" in Vietnam, but, of course, ""Miller"" took place in 1939. > >> Therefore, US vs. Miller supports limited government regulation of > >> firearms. > > > >Don't go arguing down this road unless you are willing to abide by > >the consequences that you find at the end of it -- mainly, that the > >law-abiding common man has a right to own any weapon that has a militia > >purpose, from handguns to sawed-off shotguns and fully automatic weapons. > >That, in fact, is what this decision says. > > You are free to produce evidence that I'm not willing to abide with > all the implications of this. Here is my quandary: you seem to be arguing that certain types of guns fall outside the scope of the Second. This isn't a useful argument unless you believe that some significant gun or class of gun belongs in that class. I think we both agree that zip guns probably aren't protected. Maybe we also both agree that all the weapons that random state governments have been banning or trying to ban because they have ""no sporting purpose"" and ""no provate citizen would ever need these guns"" DO fall under the protection of the Second. So, given that damn near any gun of any practical utility is or has at some time been used by the military, even if only for marksmanship training purposes, I need to understand why you are intent on pressing this point, arguing that that SOMETHING is not protected by the Second. > Just because I don't whole-heartedly endorse the NRA position does not > mean that I oppose the RKBA. This attitude is what makes the NRA > unpopular. Often, what makes someone unpopular is what other people say about him. How much did any of us fear or abhor the Branch Davidians six months ago? How many of us feared or abhorred Saddam Hussein five years ago? -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "expanding to Europe:Dusseldorf In article <1993Apr13.091859.29570@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes: >I didn't say every team MUST have a number of local players. Rather, the >European teams should get the CHANCE to sign their top players before the rest >of the league comes in. I agree that birthplace isn't that important, >Dusseldorfer EG of the German league average close to 10,000 fans and they >don't have a single German-born forward! Lion Milan made the European Final >Four with fifteen Canadian-born players... But nationality is going to be an >issue in Sweden and Finland, I think. We really need an issue preventing >Lindros and Mario from ending up being drafted by a European team and vice >versa. Player trades are a different matter - any player can end up anywhere >after being drafted. DEG has many german-born forwards in the team. In fact the majority of players are german-born. 1992-93 DEG had 11150 average in 11800 spectator arena. My Possible-NHL(European league)-site list: Switzerland : Berne, Zurich (Lugano and 1-2 others) Germany : Dusseldorf, Cologne, Berlin, Munich (Mannheim, Rosenheim) Sweden : Stockholm, Gothenburg (Malmo, Gavle) Finland : Helsinki (Turku, Tampere) Italy : Milan France : Paris (Chamonix, Ruoen?) Norway : (Oslo) Austria : (Vienna, Villach) Chech : (Prag) Slovakia : (Bratislava) Russia : (Moscow, St. Petersburg) Great Britain: ? Netherlands : ? Petteri Kortelainen ",10 "Re: Newsweek reports Clinton approval ratings... In article <8597@blue.cis.pitt.edu> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes: >When I heard the latest approval rating reported for Clinton, I >laughed so hard I forgot the exact numbers. Maybe one of the >Clintonettes can refresh my memory... > >Has his rating dropped to 48 or 49 percent? Ha HA HA HA HA! > >*snick* oh my either way, it's still the lowest rating any President >has ever mustered in his first 100 days, since these polls started being taken. Hum, I guess this has some significance as opposed to having an incredible drop during the last days in office. Unfortuantely having a loss in the polls during the last days of office usually means no re-election. Ask George. > >He was finished before he started! Good one, Roooster. Thats hard to top. > >The Rooster > > ",18 "Scientific Yawn Gordon Rubenfeld responds to Ron Roth: GR> ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth) wrote: GR> GR> RR> Well, Gordon, I look at the RESULTS, not at anyone's *scientific* GR> RR> stamp of approval. GR> GR> If you and your patients (followers?) are convinced (as you've written) GR> by your methods of uncontrolled, undocumented, unreported, unsubstantiated, GR> subjective endpoint research - great. But, why should the rest of us care? Gordon, even if you are trying to beat this issue to death, you'll never get more than a stalemate out of this one! I have never tried to force my type of medicine on any of you. Why should I? My patients are happy. I'm happy. You and your peers seem to be the only miserable ones around bemoaning the steady loss of patients to the alternative camp. Just look at Europe. There has been a steady exodus from 'synthetic' medicine for over a decade now, and it'll be just a matter of time before more people on this continent will abandon their drug and white coat worship as well and visit different doctors for different needs. GR> You see Ron, the point isn't whether YOU and your patients are GR> convinced that whatever it is you do works; it's whether what you do is GR> MORE effective in similar cases (of whatever it is you think you are GR> treating) than cupping, bloodletting, and placebo. This is very interesting. I have come exactly to the same conclusions but in regards to *conventional* medicine. You see, I don't just treat little old ladies that wouldn't know any different of what is being done, but a bulk of my patients consist of teachers, lawyers, judges, nurses, accountants, university graduates, and various health practitioners. If these people have gotten results with my method after having been unsuccessful with yours or their own, I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over whether you or your peers approve of my treatments --- let's face it, with all the blunders committed by ""scientific"" MDs over the years, I know a lot of people who hold your *scientific* method in much lower esteem than they hold mine! GR> As far as we know ayurveda = crystals = homeopathy = Ron Roth GR> which may all equal placebo administered with appropriate GR> trappings... Sorry, but I'm not familiar OR interested with what appears to be 'NEW AGE' medicine (ayurveda, crystals), with the exception of homeo- pathy, of which I took a course. But Gordon, you already knew that - you just wanted to make my system look a bit more far out, right? I use homeopathy very little, since my cellular test (EMR) is hard to beat for accuracy and minerals are more predictable, while homeopathy does have a problem with reliability, especially in acute conditions. An exception perhaps are homeopathic nosodes which act fairly quickly and are more dependable in certain viral or bacterial situations. GR> My colleagues and I spend hours debating study design GR> and results, even of therapies currently accepted as ""standard"". GR> As good (well, adequate) scientists, we are prepared, *if GR> presented with appropriate data*, to abandon our most deeply held GR> beliefs in favor of new ideas. I have met the challenges of hundreds of sceptics by verifying the accuracy of measuring their mineral status to their total satisfac- tion --- in other words EVERYONE INVOLVED is happy! If you were to cook a meal, would you worry over whether EVERYONE in this world would find it to their liking, or only those that end up eating it? Since I have financed every research project that I have undertaken entirely myself, I don't need to follow any of your rules or guide- lines to satisfy any aspects of a grant application, which YOU may have to; neither am I concerned of whether or not my study designs meet your or anyone else's criteria or acceptance. GR> Sorry Ron, if conviction were the ruler of truth, a flat Earth would GR> still be the center of the Universe and epilepsy a curse of the gods. I think there would be more justification for an uneducated person growing up in an uncivilized environment to believe in a flat earth, than for a civilized, well educated and scientifically trained mind to follow the doctrine of evolution. Genetic engineering of course is now the final frontier to show God how it is (properly) done. Now we've become capable of creating our own paradise and give disease (and God) the boot, right? But just before we get rid of Him for good, perhaps He could leave us some pointers on how to solve a couple of tiny problems, such as war, poverty, racism, crime, riots, substance abuse... And one last thing, could He also give us a hint on how to control natural disasters, the weather, and last, but not least --- peace? --Ron-- --- RoseReader 2.00 P003228: The Lab called: Your brain is ready. RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363 ",13 "Re: Investment in Yehuda and Shomron Aryans who do not base their reasoning on Nazi ideology are racists... Thus spoke an American citizen in the name of Judaism. If this is Judaism, I think Judaism should be combatted as any extremist and dangerous philosophy. I suspect however that Martin Buber, Albert Einstein and other Jewish scholars would have rather converted to Christianity than stay Jews, if they would have perceived Judaism as such a perverted philosophy. Those who wish to learn something about the perversion of Judaism, should consult the masterly work by Yehoshua Harkabi, who was many years the head of Israeli Intelligence and an opponent of the PLO. His latest book was published in English and includes a very detailed analysis of Judeo-Nazism. ",17 "Re: Propaganda Re: re: fillibuster In article hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: > >In article , VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal) writes: > >|>In article hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: >|>> >|> Or are they simply propogranda? We can't know what Phill *really* >|>means because he's obviously using arguments designed to convince. > >I make no secret of what I am up to, I have stated explicitly in posts >that I am a political propagandist on numerous occasions. Anyone posting >to this group who is not probably has the wrong group. > >For example I have on numerous occasions stated quite clearly that I >beleive that certain factions of the gun lobby are the worst possible >advocates of their cause and I am prepared to do anything in my power >to provide them with a platform because they can convince people far >better than I could hope that many people with a fixation on lethal >weapons are dangerous and derranged. If you happen to know a political position which does not have people advocating it who do more harm than good, please point it out. >Some people have even accused me of inventing such advocates purely >for the purpose of having them trash a set of political views. In >fact this would be a futile tactic because I could never hope to >invent a character as dangerous as sybok.athena.edu, a man who I >quite seriously believe to be mentaly ill and a potential psychopath. >Unfortunately the local sherifs office have informed me that they >are unable to act untill he attacks someone. One of the advantages and draw-backs of requiring proof on the part of the government before they may take action against citizens. (and part of the reason some of us believe weapons should be available.) >So if you were to ask me what is the point that I am trying to make >from this current argument on the absolute sanctity of the US >constitution what would I answer? We are not arguing the absolute sanctity of the U.S. Constitution. In fact, the fillibuster we're talking about isn't *in* the Constitution. I objected to your suggestion that the Senate wasn't intended to exercise the power it was clearly given. >Firstly I see that the current US political scene like the UK political >scene has become tied to special interests. Rather than chase the >convenient caricatures put about by the media and polititians themselves >for this - Gay rights cmapaigners, environmentalists, zionists (i.e. >Jews), ""foreign lobbyists"" - whatever voting power they have etc. I >sugest that you look at who is really benefiting. The inevitable conclusion >is that it is the major corporations owned by the ultra-wealthy that >have benefited. Regan and Bush created what can only be described as a >welfare state for the rich. I'll point out again that Reagan only had a Republican Majority in the Senate during his first term, and his coalition in the House came apart at about the same time. Bush never had any real support in Congress. The real point is that everybody, *everywhere* got their pork, from the big corporations to the guy I saw last night leaving a convenience store with an armful of junk-food he'd bought with food stamps. (He spent more in food stamps on junk than I *make* in a week and I'm not on government assitance.) >Money was diverted from programs addressing >social needs and poured into the weapons industry in the form of cost >plus profits contracts. Lessee, let's pull out the old Almanac. In 1980, total U.S. government budget outlays were 590.9 billion dollars. In 1992 (est) they were 1.4754 trillion dollars, an increase of approx. 884 billion dollars. In 1980, National Defense cost 133.9 billion dollars. In 192 it was 307 billion dollars, and increase of 174 billion dollars. That leaves an increase of 710 billion dollars unaccounted for. (This represented an increase of 230%) In 1980, Income Security (which includes retirement programs, Housing Assitance, and unemployment benefits, and I believe welfare) cost 86.5 billion dollars. In 1992 it was 198 billion dollars, or more than national defense started. (This represented an increase of 230%) In 1980, the Federal Government spent 32 billion dollars on Medicare. In 1992 they spent 118 billion dollars. (an increase of 368%) In 1980, the Feds spent 9 billion dollars on housing credits and subsidies of that like. In 1992 it was 87 billion. In 1980, Health care services and research was 23 billion dollars. In 1992, it was 94 billion dollars. Agriculture, up 9 billion to 17 billion. Science, up 11 billion to 16 billion. Resource conservation up 7 billion to 20 billion. Education up 14 billion to 45 billion. Veteran benefits up 12 billion to 33 billion. Trasnportation up 13 billion to 34 billion. About the only things I see which was seriously decreased was under the Energy category, primarily under ""Supply,"" and ""Community Development,"" in the area of ""disaster relief,"" and between the two of them represent a loss of less than 11 billion dollars. Where *was* this huge diversion? >In order to rectify this situation there must >be constitutional revision. Not that's a stretch. If the current government was pushed by the President to create this mess, wouldn't one expect it to begin to equalize once the pressure is gone? >Secondly the form of this revision must take account of the changed >circumsatnces of the role of the Federal government. Only assuming that the new role is a positive role we want to continue. I see very little positive about it. >The constitution >cannot be used to frustrate the democratic process. The Constitution was *designed* to frustrate the democratic process, so that the voters could be absolutely sure they were getting what they wanted by the time it happened. Nor do I see putting the brakes on the ""democratic process"" an inherently bad thing. Califronia's riding the edge and every time they pull their ballot initiative nonsense it gets worse. >If the peoplr want >to have welfare spending by the federal government they will have >it. Sometimes, or perhaps most of the time, the people should be told, ""no,"" and pointed to their local government. >Attempting to prevent this through constitutional trickery only >leads to the constitution being brought into disrepute. Phill, would you do me the very great favor of repeating that in talk.politics.guns? >Methods will >always be found to bypass such provisions and once the government gets >used to bypassing those provisions they will bypass the others up to >the first ammendment. Cute. We can eliminate violations of the law by eliminating the law. >This is a major reason why the right to own >guns should be excluded, the implication that this right is equal to >the right to free speech is dangerous. Free speech alone is dangerous, Phill. >People know that mass ownership >of lethal weapons causes thousands of murders a year, the dangerous >conclusion they may reach is that the first ammendment may also be >the same dangerous mistake. OK, Phill. All you gotta show me is a clear pattern of *reduction* in homicide rates across several countries and that'll be it. (Not current, mind, you, reduction.) >Note however that this is not the slippery >slope argument. It is because the right freedom of speech has been >chained to the privilege to own weaponry that the danger arises. The >advocates of this pivilege must not be allowed to chain freedom of >speech to their cause such that if they fall freedom of speech falls >as well. Such actions are not the actions of people genuinely interested >in freedom. Who's chaining anything to freedom of speech? By *calling* it a freedom? >Thirdly and most importantly I want to discover a mechanism wherby I can >engender intellectual debate as opposed to totemic debate. I consider >the grave threat to civilisation to be the loss of the ability to >reason about the political debate at anything other than the superficial >level. The objection I raise to your basing your case entirely on the >assertion of the supremacy of the US constitution is that the currency >of your argument is limited to the currency of the totem upon which it >is based. The danger of totems is that they can be reinterpreted in >different ways by different people. Phill, you're a master of subtly changing the subject. I haven't *based* my argument against raw democracy on the Constitution. I've tried to explain why it isn't a good idea. The only time I've referred to the Constitution is to point out it doesn't contain the restrictions on the veto and the Senate you appear to believe were ""meant,"" but just didn't make it in there. The Constitution doesn't *contain* the 41% fillibuster rule. I only believe that the rule is a good idea. You cn't dismiss that as venerating the Constitution because it isn't *in* the Constitution. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - ""I still remember the way you laughed, the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't love me anymore."" - ""Weird Al"" ",18 "Re: islamic genocide In article <1r76ek$7uo@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: #In article <1r5ubl$bd6@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #|> In article <1r4o8a$6qe@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: #|> # #|> #Noting that a particular society, in this case the mainland UK, #|> #has few religously motivated murders, and few murders of *any* #|> #kind, says very little about whether inter-religion murders elsewhere #|> #are religiously motivated. #|> #|> No, but it allows one to conclude that there is nothing inherent #|> in all religion (or for that matter, in catholicism and protestantism) #|> that motivates one to kill. # #""Motivates"" or ""allows?"" The Christian Bible says that one may kill #under certain circumstances. In fact, it instructs one to kill under #certain circumstances. I'd say the majority of people have a moral system that instructs them to kill under certain circumstances. I do get your distinction between motivate and allow, and I do agree that if a flavour of theism 'allows' atoricities, then that's an indictment of that theism. But it rather depends on what the 'certain circumstances' are. When you talk about Christianity, or Islam, then at least your claims can be understood. It's when people go to a general statement about theism that it falls apart. One could believe in a God which instructs one to be utterly harmless. # #|> For my part, I conclude that something #|> else is required. I also happen to believe that that something #|> else will work no less well without religion - any easy Them/Us will #|> do. # #And what does religion supply, if not an easy Them/Us? Not necessarily. ""Love thy neighbour"" does not supply a them/us - it demolishes it. And my definition of religion is broader than my definition of theism, as I have explained. # #|> #By insisting that even the murder of four labourers, chosen because #|> #they were catholics, and who had nothing to do with the IRA, by #|> #Protestant extremists, is *not* religously motivated, I think what #|> #you are saying is that you simply will not accept *any* murder as #|> #being religiously motivated. #|> #|> No. What about that guy who cut off someone's head because he believed #|> he was the devil incarnate? That was religously motivated. # #What about the Protestant extremists who killed four Catholic #labourers? That *wasn't* religiously motivated? Not in my opinion. If they were doing it because of some obscure point of theology, then yes. But since all protestants don't do this (nor do they elect extremists to do it for them), it's just too broad too say ""religion did this"". I'm saying that the causes are far more complex than that - take away the religious element, and you'd still have the powerful motives of revenge and misguided patriotism. You know, when most Catholics and Protestants worldwide say 'stop the killing', one might listen to that, especially when you claim not to read minds. # # #|> Also, the murders ensuing from the fatwa on Mr. Rushdie, the Inquisitions, #|> and the many religous wars. # #What's so special about these exceptions? Isn't this all just a #grab-bag of ad-hoc excuses for not considering some other murders #to be religiously motivated? What's the general principle behind #all this? The general principle is that it's fairly clear (to me, at least) that religion is the primary motivator (enabler, whatever) of these. It's not nearly so obvious what's going on when one looks at NI, apart from violence of course. # #|> #It's not an abstract ""argument"". Northern Irish Protestants say #|> #""We don't want to be absorbed into am officially Catholic country."" #|> # #|> #Now what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to reply ""No, #|> #that's only what you think you don't want. Mr O'Dwyer assures us #|> #that no matter what you say you want, you really want something #|> #else?"" #|> #|> You think the Unionists wouldn't mind being absorbed into a non-Catholic #|> country (other than the UK of course)? It's a terrible thing to lose #|> a mind. Maybe the word ""country"" is there for more than just kicks. #|> I certainly don't believe that the Unionists are in it for God - I think #|> they wish to maintain their position of privilege. # #I'm still listening to what they say, and you are still telling us #your version of what they think. You read minds, and I don't. You've speculated on my motives often enough, and you don't take my statements of my own beliefs at face value - therefore your claim not to read minds has no credibility with me, sorry. I also note that you fail to answer my question. It just looks to me very much like you have an axe to grind - especially as you are indeed ignoring what most Protestants say - which is @stop the killing"". The people you refer to are properly described as Unionists, not Protestants. # #As for their position of privilege, what is that if not religion- #based? It is based on politics, bigotry, and heartless extremism. None of these things are synonymous with religion, though there is certainly some overlap. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Re: Morality? (was Re: , keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: |> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> |> >>>Explain to me |> >>>how instinctive acts can be moral acts, and I am happy to listen. |> >>For example, if it were instinctive not to murder... |> > |> >Then not murdering would have no moral significance, since there |> >would be nothing voluntary about it. |> |> See, there you go again, saying that a moral act is only significant |> if it is ""voluntary."" Why do you think this? If you force me to do something, am I morally responsible for it? |> |> And anyway, humans have the ability to disregard some of their instincts. Well, make up your mind. Is it to be ""instinctive not to murder"" or not? |> |> >>So, only intelligent beings can be moral, even if the bahavior of other |> >>beings mimics theirs? |> > |> >You are starting to get the point. Mimicry is not necessarily the |> >same as the action being imitated. A Parrot saying ""Pretty Polly"" |> >isn't necessarily commenting on the pulchritude of Polly. |> |> You are attaching too many things to the term ""moral,"" I think. |> Let's try this: is it ""good"" that animals of the same species |> don't kill each other. Or, do you think this is right? It's not even correct. Animals of the same species do kill one another. |> |> Or do you think that animals are machines, and that nothing they do |> is either right nor wrong? Sigh. I wonder how many times we have been round this loop. I think that instinctive bahaviour has no moral significance. I am quite prepared to believe that higher animals, such as primates, have the beginnings of a moral sense, since they seem to exhibit self-awareness. |> |> |> >>Animals of the same species could kill each other arbitarily, but |> >>they don't. |> > |> >They do. I and other posters have given you many examples of exactly |> >this, but you seem to have a very short memory. |> |> Those weren't arbitrary killings. They were slayings related to some |> sort of mating ritual or whatnot. So what? Are you trying to say that some killing in animals has a moral significance and some does not? Is this your natural morality> |> |> >>Are you trying to say that this isn't an act of morality because |> >>most animals aren't intelligent enough to think like we do? |> > |> >I'm saying: |> > ""There must be the possibility that the organism - it's not |> > just people we are talking about - can consider alternatives."" |> > |> >It's right there in the posting you are replying to. |> |> Yes it was, but I still don't understand your distinctions. What |> do you mean by ""consider?"" Can a small child be moral? How about |> a gorilla? A dolphin? A platypus? Where is the line drawn? Does |> the being need to be self aware? Are you blind? What do you think that this sentence means? ""There must be the possibility that the organism - it's not just people we are talking about - can consider alternatives."" What would that imply? |> |> What *do* you call the mechanism which seems to prevent animals of |> the same species from (arbitrarily) killing each other? Don't |> you find the fact that they don't at all significant? I find the fact that they do to be significant. jon. ",0 "Re: The doctrine of Original Sin [4) ""Nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]"" (Rev. 21.27). Therefore, babies are born in such a state that should they die, they are cuf off from God and put in hell, which is exactly the doctrine of St. Augustine and St. Thomas. Of coures, having only original sins on thier souls, they suffer the lightest punishment, the loss of the vision oand presence of God, but that does not change the undeniable fact that they cannot possibly come to a forgivenss of original sin, nor can they inherit eternal life. ""That,"" as St. Augustine said, ""Is what the Pelagian heretics taught."" Which is why he said later, ""If you want to be a Christian, do not teach that unbaptized infants can come to a forgivenss of original sin.""] Doesn't the Bible say that God is a fair god? If this is true, how can this possibly be fair to the infants? ",15 "Re: atheist? I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes: > In article > Tony Lezard writes: > > (Deletion) > > > >My opinion is that the strong atheist position requires too much > >belief for me to be comfortable with. Any strong atheists out there > >care to comment? >[...] > Humans just come up with the idea of a spiritual parent. It is one > of the artifacts of human thought. The evidence for that is quite > overwhelming. And the information content of the conceived is vanishing. > > In other words, if there were gods, they would hardly make sense, and > it is possible to explain the phenomenon of religion without gods. > > The concept is useless, and I don't have to introduce new assumptions > in order to show that. > > No leap of faith required for me. Your mileage may vary. Yes I fully agree with that, but is it ""I don't believe gods exist"", or ""I believe no gods exist""? As MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka) pointed out, it all hinges on what you take the word ""believe"" to mean. Unfortunately this is bound up in the definitions of strong and weak atheism, at least according to the FAQ: # Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of God. # Some atheists go further, and believe that God does not exist. The former is # often referred to as the ""weak atheist"" position, and the latter as ""strong # atheism"". # # It is important to note the difference between these two positions. ""Weak # atheism"" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. ""Strong # atheism"" is a positive belief that God does not exist. Please do not # fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are ""strong atheists"". (From mathew's ""An Introduction to Atheism"" version 1.2 last modified 5-Apr-93) Should the FAQ be clarified to try to pin down this notion of ""belief""? Can it? -- Tony Lezard IS tony@mantis.co.uk OR tony%mantis.co.uk@uknet.ac.uk OR things like tony%uk.co.mantis@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay OR (last resort) arl10@phx.cam.ac.uk PGP 2.2 public key available on request. ",0 "comp.windows.x: Getting more performance out of X. FAQ Archive-name: x-faq/speedups Last-modified: 1993/4/20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - HOW TO MAXIMIZE THE PERFORMANCE OF X -- monthly posting - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Compiled by Art Mulder (art@cs.ualberta.ca) More RAM, Faster CPU's, More disk space, Faster Ethernet... These are the standard responses you hear when you ask how to improve the performance of your workstation. Well, more hardware isn't always an option, and I wonder if more hardware is always even a necessity. This ""FAQ"" list is a collection of suggestions and ideas from different people on the net on how you can the best possible performance from X Windows on your workstation, WITHOUT PURCHASING MORE HARDWARE. Performance is a highly subjective issue. The individual user must balance `speed' versus `features' in order to come to a personal decision. Therefore this document can be be expected to contain many subjective opinions in and amongst the objective facts. This document is specifically concerned with X. There are of course many other factors that can affect the performance of a workstation. However, they are outside the scope of this document. [ People seriously interested in the whole area of system performance, might want to look at the O'Reilly Nutshell Handbook ""System Performance Tuning"" by Mike Loukides. IMHO, it contains a well-written, comprehensive treatment of system performance. I'm unaware of any other similar books. --ed.] ----------------- Table of Contents ----------------- 0. Introduction & Administrivia 1. What about the ""Other X FAQ""? 2. Window Managers 3. The X Server Which Server? Locking the Server into RAM? Starting your Server Fonts About the Resources File Define Your Display Properly 4. Clients A Better Clock for X A Better Terminal Emulator for X Tuning your client 5. Miscellaneous Suggestions Pretty Pictures A Quicker Mouse Programming Thoughts Say What!? 6. Other Sources of Information 7. Author & Notes ! = changed since last issue. * = new since last issue. ----------------------------- Introduction & Administrivia ----------------------------- This document is posted each month, on or around the 15th, to the Usenet news groups comp.windows.x, news.answers, and comp.answers. If you are reading a copy of this FAQ which is more than a few months old (see the ""Last-modified"" date above) you should probably locate the latest edition, since the information may be outdated. If you do not know how to get those newsgroups and/or your site does not receive them and/or this article has already expired, you can retrieve this FAQ from an archive site. There exist several usenet FAQ archive sites. To find out more about them and how to access them, please see the ""Introduction to the news.answers newsgroup"" posting in news.answers. The main FAQ archive is at rtfm.mit.edu [18.172.1.27]. This document can be found there in /pub/usenet/news.answers/x-faq/speedups. If you do not have access to anonymous ftp, you can retrieve it by sending a mail message to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the command ""send usenet/news.answers/x-faq/speedups"" in the message body. ----------------------------- What about the ""Other X FAQ""? ----------------------------- David B. Lewis (faq%craft@uunet.uu.net) maintains the informative and well written ""comp.windows.x Frequently Asked Questions"" document. Its focus is on general X information, while this FAQ concentrates on performance. The comp.windows.x FAQ does address the issue of speed, but only with regards to the X server. The gist of that topic seems to be: ""Use X11R5, it is faster than R4"". (Please see the X FAQ for complete details). --------------- Window Managers --------------- There are a lot of window managers out there, with lots of different features and abilities. The choice of which to use is by necessity a balancing act between performance and useful features. At this point, most respondents have agreed upon ""twm"" as the best candidate for a speedy window manager. A couple of generic tricks you can try to soup up your window manger, is turning off unnecessary things like ""zooming"" and ""opaque move"". Also, if you lay out your windows in a tiled manner, you reduce the amount of cpu power spent in raising and lowering overlapping windows. Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) I've found that a good font for tiling is 7x13 (aka: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--13-100-100-100-c-70-iso8859-1 ). It is the biggest font I know of that I can use on my Sun (1152x900 screen) and still get two 80 column terminal windows side-by-side on the display with no overlap. Other font suggestions will be accepted. ------------ The X Server ------------ Which Server? - - - - - - - Make sure that your server is a proper match for your hardware. If you have a monochrome monitor, use a monochrome X11 server. On my Monochrome Sun, I haven't noticed much difference between the Xsun (colour) server and XsunMono, however it was pointed out to me that XsunMono is about 800k smaller and therefore should contribute to less paging. [ thanks to: Jonny Farringdon (j.farringdon@psychol.ucl.ac.uk), Michael Salmon (Michael.Salmon@eos.ericsson.se) ] How your server was compiled can also make a difference. Jeff Law (law@schirf.cs.utah.edu) advises us that on a Sun system, X should be compiled with gcc (version 2.*) or with the unbundled Sun compiler. You can expect to get ""*very* large speedups in the server"" by not using the bundled SunOS compiler. I assume that similar results would occur if you used one of the other high-quality commercial compilers on the market. Locking the Server into RAM? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Has anyone tried hacking the X server so that it is locked into RAM and does not get paged? eg: via a call to plock(). Does this help performance at all? I've had one inquiry on this topic, and a few pointers to the plock() function call, but no hard evidence from someone who's tried it. I am not in a position to give it a try. [thanks to: Eric C Claeys (ecc@eperm.att.com), Danny Backx (db@sunbim.be), Juan D. Martin (juando@cnm.us.es) ] Starting your Server - - - - - - - - - - - Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) : If you start up a lot of clients in your .xsession or whatever, sleep for a second or two after launching each one. After I changed my .xclients script to do this, logging in actually took *less* time... we have a heavily loaded system without much core, though. This sounds crazy, but I have confirmed that it works! Warner Losh (imp@Solbourne.COM) provided me with a good explanation of why this works, which I have summarized here: When you start up an X server it takes a huge amount of time to start accepting connections. A lot of initialization is done by the server when it starts. This process touches a large number of pages. Any other process running at the same time would fight the server for use of the CPU, and more importantly, memory. If you put a sleep in there, you give the Server a chance to get itself sorted out before the clients start up. Similarly, there is also a lot of initialization whenever an X client program starts: toolkits registering widgets, resources being fetched, programs initializing state and ""databases"" and so forth. All this activity is typically memory intensive. Once this initialization is done (""The process has reached a steady state""), the memory usage typically settles down to using only a few pages. By using sleeps to stagger the launching of your clients in your .Xinitrc , you avoid them fighting each other for your workstation's limited resources This is most definitely a ""Your Mileage May Vary"" situation, as there are so many variables to be considered: available RAM, local swap space, load average, number of users on your system, which clients you are starting, etc. Currently in my .xinitrc I have a situation like: (sleep 1; exec xclock ) & (sleep 1; exec xbiff ) & (sleep 1; exec xterm ) & (sleep 1; exec xterm ) & I've experimented with: (sleep 1; exec xclock ) & (sleep 2; exec xbiff ) & (sleep 3; exec xterm ) & (sleep 4; exec xterm ) & I've even tried: (sleep 2; exec start_X_clients_script ) & and then in start_X_clients_script I had: (sleep 1; exec xclock ) & (sleep 1; exec xbiff ) & (sleep 1; exec xterm ) & (sleep 1; exec xterm ) & [ The idea with this last one was to make sure that xinit had completely finished processing my .xinitrc, and had settled down into a ""steady state"" before the sleep expired and all my clients were launched. ] All of these yielded fairly comparable results, and so I just stuck with my current setup, for its simplicity. You will probably have to experiment a bit to find a setup which suits you. Fonts - - - Loading fonts takes time and RAM. If you minimize the number of fonts your applications use, you'll get speed increases in load-up time. One simple strategy is to choose a small number of fonts (one small, one large, one roman, whatever suits you) and configure all your clients -- or at least all your heavily used clients -- to use only those few fonts. Client programs should start up quicker if their font is already loaded into the server. This will also conserve server resources, since fewer fonts will be loaded by the server. [ Farrell McKay (fbm@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au), Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) ] eg: My main xterm font is 7x13, so I also have twm set up to use 7x13 in all it's menus and icons etc. Twm's default font is 8x13. Since I don't normally use 8x13, I've eliminated one font from my server. Oliver Jones (oj@roadrunner.pictel.com): Keep fonts local to the workstation, rather than loading them over nfs. If you will make extensive use of R5 scalable fonts, use a font server. About the Resources File - - - - - - - - - - - - - Keep your .Xresources / .Xdefaults file small. Saves RAM and saves on server startup time. Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) One suggestion: In your .Xdefaults (.Xresources) file, try putting only the minimum number of resources that you want to have available to all of your applications. For example: *reverseVideo: true Then, separate your resources into individual client-specific resource files. For example: $HOME/lib/app-defaults. In your .login file set the environment variable XUSERFILESEARCHPATH: setenv XUSERFILESEARCHPATH $HOME/lib/app-defaults/%N [ The ""comp.windows.x Frequently Asked Questions"" FAQ contains an excellent explanation of how these environment variables work. --ed.] So, when xterm launches, it loads its resources from .../app-defaults/XTerm. Xdvi finds them in .../app-defaults/XDvi, and so on and so forth. Note that not all clients follow the same XXxxx resource-file naming pattern. You can check in your system app-defaults directory (often: /usr/X11R5/lib/X11/app-defaults/) to find the proper name, and then name your personal resource files with the same name. This is all documented in the Xt Specification (pg 125 & 666). [Thanks to: Kevin Samborn (samborn@mtkgc.com), Michael Urban (urban@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov), and Mike Long (mikel@ee.cornell.edu). Kevin is willing mail his setup files to inquirers.] This method of organizing your personal resources has the following benefits: - Easier to maintain / more usable. - Fewer resources are stored in the X server in the RESOURCE_MANAGER property. As a side benefit your server may start fractionally quicker, since it doesn`t have to load all your resources. - Applications only process their own resources, never have to sort through all of your resources to find the ones that affect them. It also has drawbacks: - the application that you are interested in has to load an additional file every time it starts up. This doesn't seem to make that much of a performance difference, and you might consider this a huge boon to usability. If you are modifying an application's resource database, you just need to re-run the application without having to ""xrdb"" again. - xrdb will by default run your .Xdefaults file through cpp. When your resources are split out into multiple resource files and then loaded by the individual client programs, they will not. WATCH OUT FOR THIS!! I had C style comments in my .Xdefaults file, which cpp stripped out. When I switched to this method of distributed resource files I spent several frustrating days trying to figure out why my clients were not finding their resources. Xt did *NOT* provide any error message when it encountered the C style comments in the resource files, it simply, silently, aborted processing the resource file. The loss of preprocessing (which can be very handy, e.g. ``#ifdef COLOR'' ...) is enough to cause some people to dismiss this method of resource management. - You may also run into some clients which break the rules. For example, neither Emacs (18.58.3) nor Xvt (1.0) will find their resources if they are anywhere other than in .Xdefaults. - when starting up a client on a machine that does not share files with the machine where your resources are stored, your client will not find its resources. Loading all your resources into the server will guarantee that all of your clients will always find their resources. Casey Leedom (casey@gauss.llnl.gov) A possible compromise suggestion that I have (and am planning on trying) is to put resources for all my heavily used clients (eg: xterm) into my .Xdefaults file, and to use the ""separate resources files"" method for clients that I seldom use. Define Your Display Properly - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Client programs are often executed on the same machine as the server. In that situation, rather than setting your DISPLAY environment variable to "":0.0"", where is the name of your workstation, you should set your DISPLAY variable to ""unix:0.0"" or "":0.0"". By doing this you access optimized routines that know that the server is on the same machine and use a shared memory method of transferring requests. [thanks to Patrick J Horgan (pjh70@ras.amdahl.com)] See the _DISPLAY NAMES_ section of the X(1) man page for further explanation of how to properly set your display name. ""I don't think it's stock MIT, but (at least) Data General and HP have libraries that are smart enough to use local communication even when the DISPLAY isn't set specially."" Rob Sartin (88opensi!sartin@uunet.UU.NET) [Jody Goldberg (jody@algorithmics.com) sent me an Xlib patch to change stock R5 to use local communication even if DISPLAY is not properly set. I don't want to get in the business of distributing or trying to juggle non-MIT patches and so have elected not to include it here. Hopefully MIT will apply this minor (~8 lines) patch themselves. In the meantime, if you want to try it yourself, email Jody. --ed.] ------- Clients ------- If you only have a few megabytes of Ram then you should think carefully about the number of programs you are running. Think also about the _kind_ of programs you are running. For example: Is there a smaller clock program than xclock? Unfortunately, I haven't really noticed that programs advertise how large they are, so the onus is on us to do the research and spread the word. [ Suggestions on better alternatives to the some of the standard clients (eg: Xclock, Xterm, Xbiff) are welcome. --ed.] I've received some contradictory advice from people, on the subject of X client programs. Some advocate the use of programs that are strictly Xlib based, since Xt, Xaw and other toolkits are rather large. Others warn us that other applications which you are using may have already loaded up one or more of these shared libraries. In this case, using a non-Xt (for example) client program may actually _increase_ the amount of RAM consumed. The upshot of all this seems to be: Don't mix toolkits. That is, try and use just Athena clients, or just Xview clients (or just Motif clients, etc). If you use more than one, then you're dragging in more than one toolkit library. Know your environment, and think carefully about which client programs would work best together in that environment. [Thanks to: Rob Sartin (88opensi!sartin@uunet.UU.NET), Duncan Sinclair (sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk | sinclair@uk.ac.gla.dcs) ] A Better Clock for X - - - - - - - - - - - 1) xcuckoo suggested by: Duncan Sinclair (sinclair@dcs.gla.ac.uk) available: on export.lcs.mit.edu Xcuckoo displays a clock in the title bar of *another* program. Saves screen real estate. 2) mclock suggested by: der Mouse (mouse@Lightning.McRCIM.McGill.EDU) available: larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (132.206.1.1) in /X/mclock.shar Non Xt-based. Extensively configurable. it can be made to look very much like MIT oclock, or mostly like xclock purely by changing resources. Of course, the ultimate clock --- one that consumes no resources, and takes up no screen real estate --- is the one that hangs on your wall. :-) A Better Terminal Emulator for X - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From the README file distributed with xterm: +----- | Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here | | This is undoubtedly the most ugly program in the distribution. | ... +----- Ugly maybe, but at my site it's still the most used. I suspect that xterm is one of the most used clients at many, if not most sites. Laziness? Isn't there a better terminal emulator available? See below. If you must use xterm, you can try reducing the number of saveLines to reduce memory usage. [ Oliver Jones (oj@roadrunner.pictel.com), Jonny Farringdon (j.farringdon@psychol.ucl.ac.uk) ] 1) Xvt suggested by: Richard Hesketh (rlh2@ukc.ac.uk) : available: export.lcs.mit.edu in /contrib/xvt-1.0.tar.Z ""...if you don't need all the esoteric features of xterm, then get hold of xvt ... it was written here just to save swap space as xterm is rather a hog! "" This was written as a partial 'clone' of xterm. You don't have to rename your resources, as xvt pretends to be XTerm. In it's current version, you cannot bind keys as you can in xterm. I've heard that there are versions of xvt with this feature, but I've not found any yet. UPDATE (March 1993): I recently had a few email conversations with Brian Warkentin (brian.warkentine@eng.sun.com) regarding xvt. He questions whether xvt really is at all faster than xterm. For instance, xvt may initialize slightly faster, but compare scrolling speed (try this quickie benchmark: /bin/time dd if=/etc/termcap bs=40) and see which program can scroll faster. Also, while xterm may be slightly larger in RAM requirements (We don't have any hard numbers here, does anyone else?) shared libraries and shared text segments mean that xterm's paging requirements are not that major. As an experiment, he ripped out all the tek stuff from xterm, but it made little difference, since if you never use it, it never gets brought into memory. So here we stand with some conflicting reports on the validity of xvt over xterm. In summary? Caveat Emptor, your mileage may vary. If you can provide some hard data, I'd like to see it. Specifically: How much RAM each occupies, how much swap each needs, relative speed of each 2) mterm suggested by: der Mouse (mouse@Lightning.McRCIM.McGill.EDU) available: larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (132.206.1.1) in /X/mterm.src/mterm.ball-o-wax. ""I also have my own terminal emulator. Its major lack is scrollback, but some people like it anyway."" Tuning your client - - - - - - - - - - Suggestions on how you can tune your client programs to work faster. From Scott Barman (scott@asd.com) comes a suggestion regarding Motif Text Field Widgets: I noticed that during data entry into Motif text field widgets, I was getting a slight lag in response to some keystrokes, particularly the initial one in the field. Examining the what was going on with xscope I found it. It seems that when the resource XmNblinkRate is non-zero and the focus is on a text field widget (or even just a text widget) the I-beam cursor will blink. Every time the cursor appears or disappears in those widgets, the widget code is making a request to the server (CopyArea). The user can stop this by setting the resource XmNblinkRate to 0. It is not noticeable on a 40MHz SPARC, but it does make a little difference on a [slower system]. This specific suggestion can probably be applied in general to lots of areas. Consider your heavily used clients, are there any minor embellishments that can be turned off and thereby save on Server requests? ------------------------- Miscellaneous Suggestions ------------------------- Pretty Pictures - - - - - - - - Don't use large bitmaps (GIF's, etc) as root window backgrounds. - The more complicated your root window bitmap, the slower the server is at redrawing your screen when you reposition windows (or redraw, etc) - These take up RAM, and CPU power. I work on a Sun SPARC and I'm conscious of performance issues, I can't comprehend it when I see people with a 4mb Sun 3/60 running xphoon as their root window. I'll let someone else figure out how much RAM would be occupied by having a full screen root image on a colour workstation. - If you're anything like me, you need all the screen real estate that you can get for clients, and so rarely see the root window anyway. [ Thanks to Qiang Alex Zhao (azhao@cs.arizona.edu) for reminding me of this one. --ed.] A Quicker Mouse - - - - - - - - Using xset, you can adjust how fast your pointer moves on the screen when you move your mouse. I use ""xset m 3 10"" in my .xinitrc file, which lets me send my pointer across the screen with just a flick of the wrist. See the xset man page for further ideas and information. Hint: sometimes you may want to *slow down* your mouse tracking for fine work. To cover my options, I have placed a number of different mouse setting commands into a menu in my window manager. e.g. (for twm) : menu ""mouse settings"" { ""Mouse Settings:"" f.title "" Very Fast"" ! ""xset m 7 10 &"" "" Normal (Fast)"" ! ""xset m 3 10 &"" "" System Default (Un-Accelerated)"" ! ""xset m default &"" "" Glacial"" ! ""xset m 0 10 &"" } Programming Thoughts - - - - - - - - - - - Joe English (joe@trystero.art.com) : To speed up applications that you're developing, there are tons of things you can do. Some that stick out: - For Motif programs, don't set XmFontList resources for individual buttons, labels, lists, et. al.; use the defaultFontList or labelFontList or whatever resource of the highest-level manager widget. Again, stick to as few fonts as possible. - Better yet, don't use Motif at all. It's an absolute pig. - Don't create and destroy widgets on the fly. Try to reuse them. (This will avoid many problems with buggy toolkits, too.) - Use a line width of 0 in GCs. On some servers this makes a HUGE difference. - Compress and collapse multiple Expose events. This can make the difference between a fast application and a completely unusable one. Francois Staes (frans@kiwi.uia.ac.be) : Just a small remark: I once heard that using a better malloc function would greatly increase performance of Xt based applications since they use malloc heavily. They suggested trying out the GNUY malloc, but I didn't find the time yet. I did some tests on small programs just doing malloc and free, and the differences were indeed very noticeable ( somewhat 5 times faster) [ Any confirmation on this from anyone? --ed.] Andre' Beck (Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de) : - Unnecessary NoExpose Events. Most people use XCopyArea/XCopyPlane as fastest blit routines, but they forget to reset graphics_exposures in the GC used for the blits. This will cause a NoExpose Event every blit, that, in most cases, only puts load onto the connection and forces the client to run through it's event-loop again and again. - Thousands of XChangeGC requests. This ""Gfx Context Switching"" is also seen in most handcoded X-Apps, where only one or few GCs are created and then heavily changed again and again. Xt uses a definitely better mechanism, by caching and sharing a lot of GCs with all needed parameters. This will remove the load of subsequent XChangeGC requests from the connection (by moving it toward the client startup phase). Say What!? - - - - - - Some contributors proposed ideas that seem right off the wall at first: David B. Lewis (by day: dbl@osf.org, by night: david%craft@uunet.uu.net) : How about this: swap displays with someone else. Run all your programs on the other machine and display locally; the other user runs off your machine onto the other display. Goal: reduce context switches in the same operation between client and server. I'm not in a situation where I can easily try this, but I have received the following confirmation... Michael Salmon (Michael.Salmon@eos.ericsson.se): I regularly run programs on other machines and I notice a big difference. I try to run on a machine where I will reduce net usage and usually with nice to reduce the impact of my intrusion. This helps a lot on my poor little SS1+ with only 16 MB, it was essential when I only had 8 MB. Casey Leedom (casey@gauss.llnl.gov) : [The X11 Server and the client are] competing for the same CPU as your server when you run it on the same machine. Not really a major problem, except that the X11 client and the server are in absolute synchronicity and are context thrashing. Timothy H Panton (thp@westhawk.uucp) : Firstly it relies on the fact that most CPU's are mostly idle, X's cpu usage is bursty. so the chances of you and your teammate doing something cpu-intensive at the same time is small. If they are not then you get twice the cpu+memory available for your action. The second factor is that context switches are expensive, using 2 cpu's halves them, you pay a price due to the overhead of going over the network, but this is offset in most cases by the improved buffering of a network (typically 20k vs 4k for a pipe), allowing even fewer context switches. ---------------------------- Other Sources of Information ---------------------------- Volume 8 in O'Reilly's X Window System Series, ``X Window System Administrator's Guide'' is a book all X administrator's should read. Adrian Nye (adrian@ora.com): A lot more tips on performance are in the paper ""Improving X Application Performance"" by Chris D. Peterson and Sharon Chang, in Issue 3 of The X Resource. An earlier version of this paper appeared in the Xhibition 1992 conference proceedings. This paper is absolutely essential reading for X programmers. -------------- Author & Notes -------------- This list is currently maintained by Art Mulder (art@cs.ualberta.ca) Suggestions, corrections, or submission for inclusion in this list are gladly accepted. Layout suggestions and comments (spelling mistak's too! :-) are also welcome. Currently I have listed all contributors of the various comments and suggestions. If you do not want to be credited, please tell me. speedup-x-faq is copyright (c) 1993 by Arthur E. Mulder You may copy this document in whole or in part as long as you don't try to make money off it, or pretend that you wrote it. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- ...art mulder ( art@cs.ualberta.ca ) | ""Do not be conformed to this world, Department of Computing Science | but be transformed by the renewal University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada | of your mind, ..."" Romans 12:2 ",5 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians (mohamed.s.sadek) writes: > >I like what Mr. Joseph Biden had to say yesterday 5/11/93 in the senate. > >Condemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans >and calling that ""moral rape"". > >He went on to say that the reason for that is ""out right religious BIGOTRY"" Actually, this strife in Yugoslavia goes back a long way. Bosinan Muslims, in collaboration with the Nazis, did to Serbians after the first world war what Serbs are doing to Muslims now. This is not a fresh case of ethnic cleansing but just another chapter in the continuing saga of intense mutual hatred, destruction,... Not taking sides in this perpetual war does not amount to religious bigotry. It could just be helplessness with regards to bringing peace to a region that does not even know the meaning of the word. Satya Prabhakar -- ",17 "Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises In article <1993Apr15.231903.4045@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: > In article <1993Apr15.200629.7200@alleg.edu> luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer writes: > > > > Actually, I kind of liked the Abott trade. We did trade the rookie of > >the year, SNOW, but with Don mattingly at first for another 8 years, Why > >bother. > > I'd be willing to make two wagers: > 1) Snow doesn't win ROY. > 2) Mattingly is out of baseball within five years. > No, You are quite correct, but I was using some wishful thinking. JT snow was wasting away, while Abbott can provide a great resourse for the team. ",9 "Re: BATF/FBI Murders Almost Everyone in Waco Today! 4/19 In <1r0qk5INNc5m@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com writes: > In article roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) > writes: > > I balance my gut reaction to question authority together with the > > independent facts as I see them on video. I usually adopt the > > scenario that is simplest and most plausible. I do not generally > > believe in conspiracy theories that involve complicated and unlikely > > scenarios. > > > Then answer the question: Why was NO ONE ELSE permitted to talk to Koresh, Koresh had a lawyer, Deguin(?) who he spoke to in person several times during the last few weeks. > It cannot be denied that if they had left them alone, there would have been >no fire yesterday. This strikes me as a tad ingenous. ""If X had done/note done Y, then Z would never have happened."" I tend to place tha responsibility on the group/person actually committing the act, not on those whon ""forced them to do it"". After all, to take an extreme example, if the British were not in Northern Ireland, the IRA would not be forced to place bombs in shopping centers. That said, this whole sorry story was a totally unecessary, utterly fucked up mess from the get go. semper fi, Jammer Jim Miller Texas A&M University '89 and '91 ________________________________________________________________________________ I don't speak for UH, which is too bad, because they could use the help. ""Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."" ""Power finds its way to those who take a stand. Stand up, Ordinary Man."" ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph ",16 "Call for presentations: Navy SciViz/VR seminar ********************************************************************** 2ND CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS NAVY SCIENTIFIC VISUALIZATION AND VIRTUAL REALITY SEMINAR Tuesday, June 22, 1993 Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (formerly the David Taylor Research Center) Bethesda, Maryland ********************************************************************** SPONSOR: NESS (Navy Engineering Software System) is sponsoring a one-day Navy Scientific Visualization and Virtual Reality Seminar. The purpose of the seminar is to present and exchange information for Navy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality programs, research, developments, and applications. PRESENTATIONS: Presentations are solicited on all aspects of Navy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality. All current work, works-in-progress, and proposed work by Navy organizations will be considered. Four types of presentations are available. 1. Regular presentation: 20-30 minutes in length 2. Short presentation: 10 minutes in length 3. Video presentation: a stand-alone videotape (author need not attend the seminar) 4. Scientific visualization or virtual reality demonstration (BYOH) Accepted presentations will not be published in any proceedings, however, viewgraphs and other materials will be reproduced for seminar attendees. ABSTRACTS: Authors should submit a one page abstract and/or videotape to: Robert Lipman Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Division Code 2042 Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000 VOICE (301) 227-3618; FAX (301) 227-5753 E-MAIL lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil Authors should include the type of presentation, their affiliations, addresses, telephone and FAX numbers, and addresses. Multi-author papers should designate one point of contact. ********************************************************************** DEADLINES: The abstact submission deadline is April 30, 1993. Notification of acceptance will be sent by May 14, 1993. Materials for reproduction must be received by June 1, 1993. ********************************************************************** For further information, contact Robert Lipman at the above address. ********************************************************************** PLEASE DISTRIBUTE AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE, THANKS. ********************************************************************** Robert Lipman | Internet: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil David Taylor Model Basin - CDNSWC | or: lip@ocean.dt.navy.mil Computational Signatures and | Voicenet: (301) 227-3618 Structures Group, Code 2042 | Factsnet: (301) 227-5753 Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000 | Phishnet: stockings@long.legs The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick. ",1 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article <1sufneINNe4f@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes: > >In article <1sueslINNa6g@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>, >jovanovic-nick@yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic) writes: > >> ""Muslim"" in ex-Yugoslavia was a *nation* not a religion. In fact, not >> all Muslims in B-H are followers of Islam. Therefore, there do (did?) >> exist in ex-Yugoslavia ""Christian Muslims."" > >Yeah! That's it! :) You've really outdone yourself this time Nick... >Don't forget the ""Davidian Muslims""... :) > >Islam is not a race. It's a religion. You can be white, black, >Fijian or Alaskan. This does not change the *fact* that ""Muslim"" is a legal and political term defined constitutionally in former Yugoslavia, and therefore has meaning and consequences entirely *independent* and *immaterial* of any religious considerations. >> It is a >> civil war in which the terms of secession are being negotiated with guns >> instead of pens. The Croat, Muslim, and Serb political leaders *all* >> chose to fight over the terms of secession instead of compromising and >> peacefully negotiating multilateral secession agreements. > >Terms of secession? You are, of course, joking, right Nick? Nobody >*chose* to fight. Bosnia and Croatia were *internationally* >recognized nations when the Serbs attacked and started on their >well-documented genocide. That makes them an outside aggressor. It's >a simple genocide, a classical example of ethnic cleansing. There is >no question of civil war... You only wish it were so. More than 2,000,000 residents of Croatia and B-H have *not* accepted the terms of secession which Tudjman and Izetbegovic unilaterally forced upon them. Croats and Muslims may have a right to negotiated secession but they do not have a right to grab the *entire* territories of the former Yugoslav republics of Croatia and B-H. Oh, BTW, *Yugoslavia* was *internationally recognized* when it was destroyed by Tudjman, Izetbegovic, Milosevic, and the international community led by Germany. If Yugoslavia's borders could be changed against its will, then certainly Croatia's borders and B-H's borders can be changed as well. As I have stated many times: the civil war in ex-Yugoslavia will end when the terms of secession (borders, etc.) for Croatia and B-H are finally agreed upon. Serbs, Croats, and Muslims will *all* have to make territorial concessions to reach such an agreement. -Nick ",17 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? > Tell me are you really this stupid, or are you just pretending. Tell me are you really this stupid, or are you just pretending. > I have fire insurance that I hope I never have to use. A fire insurance is not an offensive weapon. > I have a spare tire in my trunk that I hope I never have to use. A spare tire is not an offensive weapon. How should one deal with a man who is convinced that he is acting according to God's will, and who there- Jokke fore believes that he is doing you a favour by stabbing you in the back? -Voltaire ",19 "10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Opening (1 of 2) Enclosed are the rules, guidelines and related information for the 10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest. (This is part 1 of a 2 part shar file). Enjoy! chongo /\oo/\ Larry Bassel =-= #!/bin/sh # This is a shell archive (shar 3.32) # made 03/01/1993 12:01 UTC by chongo@toad.com # Source directory /tmp # # existing files WILL be overwritten # # This shar contains: # length mode name # ------ ---------- ------------------------------------------ # 8585 -r--r--r-- rules # 25375 -r--r--r-- guidelines # 33961 -r--r--r-- mkentry.c # 6257 -r--r--r-- obfuscate.info # # ============= rules ============== echo ""x - extracting rules (Text)"" sed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > rules && X10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Rules X XCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. XAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is Xgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety Xand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing Xfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel. X X Obfuscate: tr.v. -cated, -cating, -cates. 1. a. To render obscure. X b. To darken. 2. To confuse: his emotions obfuscated his X judgment. [LLat. obfuscare, to darken : ob(intensive) + X Lat. fuscare, to darken < fuscus, dark.] -obfuscation n. X obfuscatory adj. X X XGOALS OF THE CONTEST: X X * To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated C program under the rules below. X * To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way. X * To stress C compilers with unusual code. X * To illustrate some of the subtleties of the C language. X * To provide a safe forum for poor C code. :-) X X XRULES: X X To help us with the volume of entries, we ask that you follow these rules: X X 1) Your entry must be a complete program. X X 2) Your entry must be <= 3217 bytes in length. The number of characters X excluding whitespace (tab, space, newline), and excluding any ; { or } X followed by either whitespace or end of file, must be <= 1536. X X 3) Your entry must be submitted in the following format: X X---entry--- Xrule: 1993 Xfix: y or n (n => this is a new entry, y => this replaces an older entry) Xtitle: title of entry (see comments below) Xentry: Entry number from 0 to 7 inclusive (your 1st entry should by 0) Xdate: Date/time of submission in UTC (see comments below) Xhost: Machine(s) and OS(s) under which your entry was tested X Use tab indented lines if needed X---remark--- X Place remarks about this entry in this section. It would be helpful if X you were to indent your remarks with 4 spaces, though it is not a X requirement. Also, if possible, try to avoid going beyond the 79th X column. Blank lines are permitted. X---author--- Xname: your name Xorg: School/Company/Organization Xaddr: postal address X use tab indented lines to continue X don't forget to include the country Xemail: Email address from a well known site or registered domain. X If you give several forms, list them on separate tab indented lines. Xanon: y or n (y => remain anonymous, n => ok to publish this info) X---info--- XIf your program needs an info file, place a uuencoded copy of it in Xthis section. In the case of multiple info files, use multiple info Xsections. If your entry does not need a info file, skip this section. X---build--- XPlace a uuencoded copy of the command(s) used to compile/build your program Xin this section. It must uudecode into a file named 'build'. The resulting Xfile must be 255 bytes or less. X---program--- XPlace a uuencoded copy of your program in this section. It must uudecode Xinto a file named is 'prog.c'. The resulting file must follow rule #2. X---end--- X X Regarding the above format: X X * The title must match the expression: [a-zA-Z0-9_=][a-zA-Z0-9_=+-]* X and must be 1 to 12 characters in length. X X It is suggested, but not required, that the title should X incorporate your username; in the case of multiple authors, X consider using parts of the usernames of the authors. X X * The date in the ---entry--- section should be given with respect X to UTC. The format of the date should be as returned by asctime() X using the C locale. (see guidelines for more info) X X * You may correct/revise a previously submitted entry by sending X it to the contest email address. Be sure to set 'fix' in the X ---entry--- section to 'n'. The corrected entry must use the same X title and entry number as submittion that is being corrected. Be X sure that you note the resubmittion in the ---remark--- as well. X X * With the exception of the header, all text outside of the above X format may be ignored by the judges. If you need tell the judges X something, put it in the ---remark--- section, or send a separate X Email message to the judges. X X * Information from the ---author--- section will be published unless X 'y' was given to the respective author's 'anon' line. X X * To credit multiple authors, include an ---author--- section for X each author. Each should start with ---author--- line, and X should be found between the ---entry--- and ---build--- sections. X X * The entry's remarks should include: X - what this program does X - how to run the program (sample args or input) X - special compile or execution instructions, if any X - special filename requirements (see rule 4 and 5) X - information about any ---data--- files X - why you think the program is obfuscated X - note if this entry is a re-submission of a previous entry. X - any other remarks (humorous or otherwise) X X * Do not rot13 your entry's remarks. You may suggest that certain X portions of your remarks be rot13ed if your entry wins an award. X X * Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. They X should not be required to exist. X X If your entry does not need an info file, skip the ---info--- X section. If your entry needs multiple info files, use multiple X ---info--- sections, one per info file. You should describe X each info file in the ---remark--- section. X X 4) If your entry is selected as a winner, it will be modified as follows: X X 'build' is incorporated into a makefile, and 'build' is removed X 'prog.c' is renamed to your entry's title, followed by an optional X digit, followed by '.c' X your entry is compiled into a file with the name of your entry's X title, possibly followed by a digit X X If your entry requires that a build file exist, state so in your X entry's remark section. The makefile will be arranged to execute a X build shell script containing the 'build' information. The name of X this build shell script will be your entry's title, possibly followed X by a digit, followed by '.sh'. X X If needed, your entry's remarks should indicate how your entry must X be changed in order to deal with the new filenames. X X 5) The build file, the source and the resulting executable should be X treated as read-only files. If your entry needs to modify these files, X it should make and modify a copy of the appropriate file. If this X occurs, state so in your entry's remarks. X X 6) Entries that cannot be compiled by an ANSI C compiler will be rejected. X Use of common C (K&R + extensions) is permitted, as long as it does not X cause compile errors for ANSI C compilers. X X 7) The program must be of original work. All programs must be in the X public domain. All copyrighted programs will be rejected. X X 8) Entries must be received prior to 07-May-93 0:00 UTC. (UTC is X essentially equivalent to Greenwich Mean Time) Email your entries to: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!obfuscate X obfuscate@toad.com X X We request that your message use the subject 'ioccc entry'. X X If possible, we request that you hold off on Emailing your entries X until 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC. Early entries will be accepted, however. X We will attempt to email a confirmation to the the first author for X all entries received after 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC. X X 9) Each person may submit up to 8 entries per contest year. Each entry X must be sent in a separate Email letter. X X 10) Entries requiring human interaction to be built are not allowed. X Compiling an entry produce a file (or files) which may be executed. X X 11) Programs that require special privileges (setuid, setgid, super-user, X special owner or group) are not allowed. X X XFOR MORE INFORMATION: X X The Judging will be done by Landon Noll and Larry Bassel. Please send X questions or comments (but not entries) about the contest, to: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges X judges@toad.com X X The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to X year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines X prior to submitting entries. To obtain all 3 of them, send Email X to the address above and use the subject 'send rules'. X X One may also obtain them via anonymous ftp from: X X host: ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) X user: anonymous X pass: yourname@yourhost X dir: /pub/ioccc X X Xchongo /\cc/\ hoptoad!chongo XLarry Bassel {uunet,ucbvax,cbosgd}|sun!lab SHAR_EOF chmod 0444 rules || echo ""restore of rules failed"" set `wc -c rules`;Wc_c=$1 if test ""$Wc_c"" != ""8585""; then echo original size 8585, current size $Wc_c fi # ============= guidelines ============== echo ""x - extracting guidelines (Text)"" sed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > guidelines && X10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Guidelines, Hints and Comments X XCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. XAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is Xgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety Xand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing Xfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel. X XABOUT THIS FILE: X X This file is intended to help people who wish to submit entries to X the International Obfuscated C Code Contest (IOCCC for short). X X This is not the IOCCC rules, though it does contain comments about X them. The guidelines should be viewed as hints and suggestions. X Entries that violate the guidelines but remain within the rules are X allowed. Even so, you are safer if you remain within the guidelines. X X You should read the current IOCCC rules, prior to submitting entries. X The rules are typically sent out with these guidelines. X X XWHAT IS NEW IN 1993: X X The entry format is better (for us anyway). The program mkentry.c X has been updated. See ENTRY FORMAT. X X We will reject entries that cannot be compiled using an ANSI C X compiler. Certain old Obfuscation hacks that cause ANSI C compilers X fits are no longer permitted. Some of the new issues deal with X non-integral array types, variable number of arguments, C preprocessor X directives and the exit() function. See OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES. X X XHINTS AND SUGGESTIONS: X X You are encouraged to examine the winners of previous contests. See X FOR MORE INFORMATION for details on how to get previous winners. X X Keep in mind that rules change from year to year, so some winning entries X may not be valid entries this year. What was unique and novel one year X might be 'old' the next year. X X An entry is usually examined in a number of ways. We typically apply X a number of tests to an entry: X X * look at the original source X * convert ANSI tri-graphs to ASCII X * C pre-process the source ignoring '#include' lines X * C pre-process the source ignoring '#define' and '#include' lines X * run it through a C beautifier X * examine the algorithm X * lint it X * compile it X * execute it X X You should consider how your entry looks in each of the above tests. X You should ask yourself if your entry remains obscure after it has been X 'cleaned up' by the C pre-processor and a C beautifier. X X Your entry need not do well under all, or in most tests. In certain X cases, a test is not important. Entries that compete for the X 'strangest/most creative source layout' need not do as well as X others in terms of their algorithm. On the other hand, given X two such entries, we are more inclined to pick the entry that X does something interesting when you run it. X X We try to avoid limiting creativity in our rules. As such, we leave X the contest open for creative rule interpretation. As in real life X programming, interpreting a requirements document or a customer request X is important. For this reason, we often award 'worst abuse of the X rules' to an entry that illustrates this point in an ironic way. X X If you do plan to abuse the rules, we suggest that you let us know X in the remarks section. Please note that an invitation to abuse X is not an invitation to break. We are strict when it comes to the X 3217 byte size limit. Also, abusing the entry format tends to X annoy more than amuse. X X We do realize that there are holes in the rules, and invite entries X to attempt to exploit them. We will award 'worst abuse of the rules' X and then plug the hole next year. Even so, we will attempt to use X the smallest plug needed, if not smaller. :-) X X Check out your program and be sure that it works. We sometimes make X the effort to debug an entry that has a slight problem, particularly X in or near the final round. On the other hand, we have seen some X of the best entries fall down because they didn't work. X X We tend to look down on a prime number printer, that claims that X 16 is a prime number. If you do have a bug, you are better off X documenting it. Noting ""this entry sometimes prints the 4th power X of a prime by mistake"" would save the above entry. And sometimes, X a strange bug/feature can even help the entry! Of course, a correctly X working entry is best. X X XOUR LIKES AND DISLIKES: X X Doing masses of #defines to obscure the source has become 'old'. We X tend to 'see thru' masses of #defines due to our pre-processor tests X that we apply. Simply abusing #defines or -Dfoo=bar won't go as far X as a program that is more well rounded in confusion. X X Many ANSI C compilers dislike the following code, and so do we: X X #define d define X #d foo <-- don't expect this to turn into #define foo X X int i; X j; <-- don't use such implicit type declaration X int k; X X We suggest that you compile your entry with an ANSI C compiler. If you X must use non-ANSI C, such as K&R C, you must avoid areas that result in X compile/link errors for ANSI C compilers. X X Unfortunately, ANSI C requires array indexes to be of integral type. X Thus, the following classical obfuscation hacks are no longer allowed: X X int i; X char *c; X i[c]; <--- use c[i] instead X (i+3)[""string""]; <--- use ""string""[i+3] instead X X If your entry uses functions that have a variable number of X arguments, be careful. Systems implement va_list as a wide variety X of ways. Because of this, a number of operations using va_list are X not portable and must not be used: X X * assigning a non-va_list variable to/from a va_list variable X * casting a non-va_list variable into/from a va_list variable X * passing a va_list variable to a function expecting a non-va_list arg X * passing a non-va_list variable to a function expecting a va_list arg X * performing arithmetic on va_list variables X * using va_list as a structure or union X X In particular, do not treat va_list variables as if they were a char **'s. X X Avoid using , use instead. X X If you use C preprocessor directives (#define, #if, #ifdef, ...), X the leading '#' must be the first character on a line. While some X C preprocessors allow whitespace the leading '#', many do not. X X Because the exit() function returns void on some systems, entries X must not assume that it returns an int. X X Small programs are best when they are short, obscure and concise. X While such programs are not as complex as other winners, they do X serve a useful purpose. They are often the only program that people X attempt to completely understand. For this reason, we look for X programs that are compact, and are instructional. X X One line programs should be short one line programs, say around 80 X bytes long. Getting close to 160 bytes is a bit too long in our opinion. X X We tend to dislike programs that: X X * are very hardware specific X * are very OS or Un*x version specific X (index/strchr differences are ok, but socket/streams specific X code is likely not to be) X * dump core or have compiler warnings X (it is ok only if you warn us in the 'remark' header item) X * won't compile under both BSD or SYS V Un*x X * abusing the build file to get around the size limit X * obfuscate by excessive use of ANSI tri-graphs X * are longer than they need to be X * are similar to previous winners X * are identical to previous losers :-) X X Unless you are cramped for space, or unless you are entering the X 'best one liner' category, we suggest that you format your program X in a more creative way than simply forming excessively long lines. X X The build file should not be used to try and get around the size X limit. It is one thing to make use of a several -D's to help out, X but it is quite another to use 200+ bytes of -D's in order to X try and squeeze the source under the size limit. You should feel X free to make use of the build file space, but you are better off X if you show some amount of restraint. X X We allowed whitespace, and in certain cases ; { or } do not impact X your program size (up to a certain point), because we want to get X away from source that is simply a compact blob of characters. X X Given two versions of the same program, one that is a compact blob X of code, and the other that is formatted more like a typical C X program, we tend to favor the second version. Of course, a third X version of the same program that is formatted in an interesting X and/or obfuscated way, would definitely win over the first two! X X We suggest that you avoid trying for the 'smallest self-replicating' X program. We are amazed at the many different sizes that claim X to be the smallest. There is nothing wrong with self-replicating X programs. In fact, a number of winners have been self-replicating. X You might want to avoid the claim of 'smallest', lest we (or others) X know of a smaller one! X X X client entries should be as portable as possible. Entries that X adapt to a wide collection of environments will be favored. Don't X depend on a particular type of display. For example, don't depend X on color or a given size. Don't require backing store. X X X client entries should avoid using X related libraries and X software that is not in wide spread use. We ask that such X client X entries restrict themselves to only the low level Xlib and the X Athena widget set (libX11.a, libXaw.a, libXmu.a and libXt.a). X Don't use M*tif, Xv*ew, or OpenL*ok toolkits, since not everyone X has them. Avoid depending on a particular window manager. Not X everyone has X11r5, and some people are stuck back in X11r4 (or X earlier), so try to target X11r5 without requiring X11r5. Better X yet, try to make your entry run on all version 11 X Window Systems. X X X client entries should not to depend on particular items on X .Xdefaults. If you must do so, be sure to note the required lines X in the ---remark--- section. X X We like programs that: X X * are as concise and small as they need to be X * do something at least quasi-interesting X * pass lint without complaint (not a requirement, but it is nice) X * are portable X * are unique or novel in their obfuscation style X * MAKE USE OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF OBFUSCATION X * make us laugh and/or throw up :-) X X Some types of programs can't excel in some areas. Of course, your X program doesn't have to excel in all areas, but doing well in several X areas really does help. X X We freely admit that interesting, creative or humorous comments in X the ---remark--- section helps your chance of winning. If you had to X read of many twisted entries, you too would enjoy a good laugh or two. X We think the readers of the contest winners do as well. X X Be creative! X X XENTRY FORMAT: X X In order to help us process the many entries, we must request your X assistance by formatting your entries in a certain way. This format, X in addition, allows us to quickly separate information about the X author from the program itself. (see JUDGING PROCESS) X X We have provided the program, mkentry, as an example of how to X format entries. You should be aware of the following warning that X is found in mkentry.c: X X This program attempts to implement the IOCCC rules. Every X attempt has been made to make sure that this program produces X an entry that conforms to the contest rules. In all cases, X where this program differs from the contest rules, the X contest rules will be used. Be sure to check with the X contest rules before submitting an entry. X X You are not required to use mkentry. It is convenient, however, X as it attempts to uuencode the needed files, and attempt to check X the entry against the size rules. X X If you have any suggestions, comments, fixes or complaints about X the mkentry.c program, please send Email to the judges. (see below) X X The following is a sample entry: X X---entry--- Xrule: 1993 Xfix: n Xtitle: chonglab Xentry: 0 Xdate: Mon Mar 1 08:45:20 1993 Xhost: Un*x v6, pdp11/45 X 2.9BSD, pdp11/70 X---remark--- X This is a non-obfuscated obfuscated C program. X X It is likely not to win a prize. But what do you expect from X a short example! X---author--- Xname: Landon Curt Noll Xorg: IOCCC Judging Group Xaddr: Toad Hall X PO Box 170608 X San Francisco, California X 94117-0608 X USA Xemail: chongo@toad.com Xanon: n X---author--- Xname: Larry Bassel Xorg: IOCCC Judging Group Xaddr: Toad Hall X PO Box 170608 X San Francisco, California X 94117-0608 X USA Xemail: hoptoad!sun!lab X lab@sun.com Xanon: n X---info--- Xbegin 444 info.file XM0V]P>7)I9VAT(""AC*2!,86YD;VX@0W5R=""!.;VQL+""`Q.3DS+@I!;&P@4FEG XM:'1S(%)E65A2!A8W1U86QL>2!D96-O9&5D('1H:7,@9FEL92X*22!W;VYD97(@:&]W(&UA X9;GD@=VEL;""!D;R!I=""!T:&ES('EE87(_""@`` X` Xend X---build--- Xbegin 444 build X28V,@<')O9RYC(""UO('!R;V<* X` Xend X---program--- Xbegin 444 prog.c XM;6%I;B@I""GL*(VEF(&1E9FEN960H05]214=)4U1%4D5$7U9/5$527TE.7U-5 XM3DY95D%,15]#04Q)1D]23DE!7U5302D*(""`@('!R:6YT9B@B5F]T92!,86YD XM;VX@3F]L;""!F;W(@4W5N;GEV86QE($-I='D@0V]U;F-I;""!S96%T("",Q+EQN X:(BD[""B-E;F1I9@H@(""`@97AI=""@P*3L*?0H` X` Xend X---end--- X X Typically the build file should assume that the source is prog.c X and will compile into prog. If an entry wins, we will rename X its source and binary to avoid filename collision. By tradition, X we use the name of the entry's title, followed by an optional X digit in case of name conflicts. X X If the above entry somehow won the 'least likely to win' award, X we would use chonglab.c and chonglab. X X If your entry depends on, or requires that your build, source X and/or binary files be a particular name, please say so in the X ---remark--- section. If this case applies, it would be be helpful X if you did one of the following: X X * Tell us how to change the filename(s) in your entry. X X * Have the build file make copies of the files. For example: X X cc prog.c -o special_name need special binary X X or rm -f special_src.c need special source X cp prog.c special_src.c X cc special_src.c -o special_name X X or rm -f special_build need special build X tail +4 build > special_build X sh < special_build X X * Assume that we will use the entry title. Send us a version of X your build/program files that uses the name convention. You X should uuencode these files in ---data--- sections. X X If your entry needs to modify its source, info or binary files, X please say so in the ---remark--- section. You should try to avoid X touching your original build, source and binary files. You should X arrange to make copies of the files you intend to modify. This X will allow people to re-generate your entry from scratch. X X Remember that your entry may be built without a build file. We X typically incorporate the build lines into a Makefile. If the X build file must exist, say so in the ---remark--- section. X X If your entry needs special info files, you should uuencode them X into ---info--- sections. In the case of multiple info files, X use multiple ---info--- sections. If no info files are needed, X then skip the ---info--- section. X X Info files are intended to be input, or detailed information that X does not fit well into the ---remark--- section. For example, an X entry that implements a compiler might want to provide some sample X programs for the user to compile. An entry might want to include a X lengthy design document, that might not be appropriate for a X 'hints' file. X X Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. For X example, info files may provide sample input or detailed X information about your entry. Because they are supplemental, X the entry should not require them exist. X X In some cases, your info files might be renamed to avoid name X conflicts. If info files should not be renamed for some reason, X say so in the ---remark--- section. X X Info files must uudecode into the current directory. If they X absolutely must be renamed, or moved into a sub-directory, say X so in the ---remark--- section. X X When submitting multiple entries, be sure that each entry has X a unique entry number from 0 to 7. Your first entry should X have entry number 0. X X With the exception of the header, all text outside of the entry X format may be ignored. That is, don't place text outside of the X entry and expect the judges to see it. (Our decoding tools aren't X AI progs!) If you need tell the the something, put it in the X ---remark--- section, or send a Email to the judges at: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges (not the address for X judges@toad.com submitting entries) X X The date should be given with respect to UTC. (Some systems refer X to this as GMT or GMT0) The format of the date should be that as X returned by asctime() in the C locale. An example of such a string is: X X Thr Apr 01 00:47:00 1993 X X This format is similar to the output of the date(1) command. The X string does not include the timezone name before the year. On many X systems, one of the following command will produce a similar string: X X date -u ""+%a %h %d %T 19%y"" X date -u | sed -e 's/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/' X sh -c 'TZ=UTC date | sed -e ""s/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/""' X sh -c 'TZ=GMT date | sed -e ""s/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/""' X sh -c 'TZ=GMT0 date | sed -e ""s/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/""' X X You are allowed to update/fix/revise your entry. To do so, set X the 'fix' line in the ---entry--- section to 'y' instead of 'n'. X Be sure that the resubmittion uses the same title and entry number X as well, as these are used to determine which entry is to be X replaced. X X XJUDGING PROCESS: X X Entries are judged by Larry Bassel and Landon Curt Noll. X X Entries are unpacked into individual directories. The Email message X is unpacked into individual files, each containing: X X ---entry--- section X all ---author--- sections X all ---info--- sections X ---build--- section X ---program--- section X any other text, including the Email message headers X X Prior to judging, the 'any other text' file is scanned to be sure X it does not contain useful information (or in case the entry was X malformed and did not unpack correctly). Information from the X ---author--- sections are not read until the judging process is X complete, and then only from entries that have won an award. X X The above process helps keep us biased for/against any one particular X individual. We are usually kept in the dark as much as you are X until the final awards are given. We like the surprise of finding X out in the end, who won and where they were from. X X We attempt to keep all entries anonymous, unless they win an award. X Because the main 'prize' of winning is being announced, we make all X attempts to send non-winners into oblivion. We remove all non-winning X files, and shred all related paper. By tradition, we do not even X reveal the number of entries that we received. (for the curious, X we do indicate the volume of paper consumed when presenting the IOCCC X winners at talks) X X After the Usenix announcement, we attempt to send Email to the X authors of the winning entries. One reason we do this is to give X the authors a chance to comment on the way we have presented their X entry. They are given the chance to correct mistakes, typos. We X often accept their suggestions/comments about our remarks as well. X This is done prior to posting the winners to the wide world. X X Judging consists of a number of elimination rounds. During a round, X the collection of entries are divided into two roughly equal piles; X the pile that advances on to the next round, and the pile that does X not. We also re-examine the entries that were eliminated in the X previous round. Thus, an entry gets at least two readings. X X A reading consists of a number of actions: X X * reading the ---entry--- section X * reading the uudecoded ---build--- section X * reading the uudecoded ---program--- section X * reading the uudecoded ---info--- section(s), if any X * passing the source thru the C pre-processor X shipping over any #include files X * performing a number of C beautify/cleanup edits on the source X * passing the beautified source thru the C pre-processor X shipping over any #include files X X In later rounds, other actions are performed: X X * linting the source X * compiling/building the source X * running the program X * performing misc tests on the source and binary X X Until we reduce the stack of entries down to about 25 entries, entries X are judged on an individual basis. An entry is set aside because it X does not, in our opinion, meet the standard established by the round. X When the number of entries thins to about 25 entries, we begin to form X award categories. Entries begin to compete with each other for awards. X An entry often will compete in several categories. X X The actual award category list will vary depending on the types of entries X we receive. A typical category list might be: X X * best small one line program X * best small program X * strangest/most creative source layout X * most useful obfuscated program X * best game that is obfuscated X * most creatively obfuscated program X * most deceptive C code X * best X client (see OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES) X * best abuse of ANSI C X * worst abuse of the rules X * X X We do not limit ourselves to this list. For example, a few entries are so X good/bad that they are declared winners at the start of the final round. X We will invent awards categories for them, if necessary. X X In the final round process, we perform the difficult tasks of X reducing the remaining entries (typically about 25) down to 8 or 10 X winners. Often we are confident that the entries that make it into X the final round are definitely better than the ones that do not X make it. The selection of the winners out of the final round, is X less clear cut. X X Sometimes a final round entry good enough to win, but is beat out X by a similar, but slightly better entry. For this reason, it is X sometimes worthwhile to re-enter an improved version of an entry X that failed to win in a previous year. This assumes, of course, X that the entry is worth improving in the first place! X X More often that not, we select a small entry (usually one line), a X strange/creative layout entry, and an entry that abuses the contest X rules in some way. X X In the end, we traditionally pick one entry as 'best'. Sometimes such X an entry simply far exceeds any of the other entry. More often, the X 'best' is picked because it does well in a number of categories. X X XANNOUNCEMENT OF WINNERS: X X The first announcement, occurs at a Summer Usenix conference. By tradition, X this is done during the latter part of the UUNET/IOCCC BOF, just prior to X the Berkeley BSD, and BSDI BOF. X X Winning entries will be posted in late June to the following groups: X X comp.lang.c comp.unix.wizards alt.sources X X In addition, pointers to these postings are posted to the following X X comp.sources.d alt.sources.d misc.misc X comp.sources.misc comp.windows.x X X Winning entries will be deposited into the uunet archives. See X below for details. X X Often, winning entries are published in selected magazines. Winners X have appeared in books (""The New Hackers Dictionary"") and on T-Shirts. X X Last, but not least, winners receive international fame and flames! :-) X X XFOR MORE INFORMATION: X X You may contact the judges by sending Email to the following address: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges (not the address for X judges@toad.com submitting entries) X X Questions and comments about the contest are welcome. X X One may obtain a copy of the current rules, guidelines or mkentry X program. To obtain all 3 of them, send Email to the address above X and use the subject 'send rules'. X X One may also obtain the above items, we well as winners of previous X contests, via anonymous ftp from: X X host: ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9) X user: anonymous X pass: yourname@yourhost X dir: pub/ioccc X X Often, contest rules, guidelines and winners are available from X archive sites. Check comp.sources.unix archives, for example. X You may also request previous winners by Email, using the judges X Email address, though we ask that you do this as a last resort. X X Xchongo /\cc/\ hoptoad!chongo XLarry Bassel {uunet,ucbvax,cbosgd}|sun!lab SHAR_EOF chmod 0444 guidelines || echo ""restore of guidelines failed"" set `wc -c guidelines`;Wc_c=$1 if test ""$Wc_c"" != ""25375""; then echo original size 25375, current size $Wc_c fi echo ""End of part 1, continue with part 2"" exit 0 -- Sunnyvale residents: Vote Landon Noll for Sunnyvale City Council seat 1. ",5 "Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES In article <1993Apr20.173009.10580@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, deniz@mandolin.ctr.columbia.edu (Deniz Akkus) writes: |> In article <1993Apr20.164517.20876@kpc.com> henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes: |> >In article <1993Apr20.000413.25123@ee.rochester.edu>, terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes: henrik] My response to the ""shooting down"" of a Turkish airplane over the henrik] Armenian air space was because of the IGNORANT posting of the henrik] person from your Country. Turks and Azeris consistantly WANT to henrik] drag ARMENIA into the KARABAKH conflict with Azerbaijan. The henrik] KARABAKHI-ARMENIANS who have lived in their HOMELAND for 3000 henrik] years (CUT OFF FROM ARMENIA and GIVEN TO AZERIS BY STALIN) are henrik] the ones DIRECTLY involved in the CONFLICT. They are defending henrik] themselves against AZERI AGGRESSION. Agression that has NO MERCY henrik] for INOCENT people that are costantly SHELLED with MIG-23's and henrik] othe Russian aircraft. henrik] At last, I hope that the U.S. insists that Turkey stay out of the henrik] KARABAKH crisis so that the repeat of the CYPRUS invasion WILL henrik] NEVER OCCUR again. DA] Armenia is involved in fighting with Azarbaijan. It is Armenian DA] soldiers from mainland Armenia that are shelling towns in Azarbaijan. Well, this is your opinion ! Turkish/ Azeris can BARK all they WANT since the ABOVE is UNTRUE. However, I am sure YOU GUYS would have NEVER brought up ARMENIA's involvement if KARABAKHI-Armenians had had HEAVY losses. DA] You might wish to read more about whether or not it is Azeri aggression DA] only in that region. It seems to me that the Armenians are better DA] organized, have more success militarily and shell Azeri towns DA] repeatedly. Read what ? The New York Times , that is publishing anti-armenian articles. Nop, I have my resources. Look, everyone knows how aggressive Turks/Azeris have been in the past. Armenians ARE NOT gona sit around and watch FIRE WORKS by AZERIS taught by TURKS. DA] It seems to me that the Armenians are better organized, have more success DA] militarily and shell Azeri towns repeatedly. Buch of non-sence CRAP and you know it. Who the hell you think you are talking to ? Azeris are FIGHTING LOCAL ARMENIANS in Nagarno-Karabakh. You tell me who has more MIG's ? Freedom fighters in Nagarno-Karabakh or Azerbaijan ? Again, I will say it for the last time, ARMENIA is NOT involved in this WAR and you guys WANT to bring this up in order to cover up the Turkish involvment in the Karabakh. Go ahead , REPEAT as much as you want. DA] I don't wish to get into the Cyprus discussion. Turkey had the right to DA] intervene, and it did. Perhaps the intervention was not supposed to DA] last for so long, but the constant refusal of the Greek governments both DA] on the island and in Greece to deal with reality is also to be blamed DA] for the ongoing standoff in the region. Not a chance ! You CAN NOT convince me (based on your REASONS)that your GOVERNMENT did the RIGHT thing to invade CYPRUS. DA] Lastly, why is there not a soc.culture.armenia? I vote yes for it. DA] After all, it is now free. Well, I am NOT in the position to agree or disadree with you. ",17 "Barasso - the cheap shot master? After watching the Pengiuns all year (and as many other teams as possible), I've really noticed an increase in Tom Barasso's cheap shots this year (and not noticed a corrsponding increase with other goaltenders). I've also noticed that he usually gets away with it. Just as examples last night, I noticed him elbowing Scott Stevens in the head, which basically started the whole shoving match that got Stevens (Scott) and Tocchet 2 minute minors. He also KICKED John McLean. Of course he wasn't called for that. Isn't kicking an automatic match penalty and 10 game suspension? I think Glenn Anderson got one a few years ago for kicking Gaetan Duchesne in the chest. There's no doubt in my mind that Barasso is the dirtiest golatender since Hextall. He's also very good. How about that Tocchet head-butt? Is there an automatic susppension that goes along with a (non-kicking) match penalty? I can't remember anymore. Oh, the playoffs should be fun, Ralph ",10 "Hayes 9600 external AC pins??? Hello, I have a Hayes 9600 moden with no cables or manuals. The modem requires a source of 14V AC, but I do not know how to connect the power source to the 3 pin connector. I know that the top pin is the ground, so I would guess that the other two are the AC pins, right? If you have any hints, please E-Mail me, I really need help... Thanks!!! Duc N. ",3 "Heard of these South Bay shops? I need to bring on my VW Corrado for body work (I got hit). I was wondering if anyone has heard of any of these South Bay body shops: Akins Collision Center of Santa Clara - on Reed St Auto West Collision - in San Jose Los Gatos Acura Royal Auto Body - in Sunnyvale Thanks! -W ",7 "Re: uh, der, whassa deltabox? In jjb@dtc.hp.com (Jim Brewer) writes: >In article klinger@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jorg Klinger) writes: >> I beleive it's called the ""Dentabox"" frame. >> >>Nothing some putty and paint won't fix. > This from someone riding a GSXR? Gutsy. I was referring to their propensity to dent during a spill. Prespill they are of course a work of art. __ Jorg Klinger | GSXR1100 | If you only new who Arch. & Eng. Services |""Lost Horizons"" CR500 | I think I am. UManitoba, Man. Ca. |""The Embalmer"" IT175 | - anonymous --Squidonk-- ",8 "Re: New to Motorcycles... In article <1993Apr20.131800.16136@alw.nih.gov> gregh@niagara.dcrt.nih.gov (Gregory Humphreys) writes: >Hello everyone. I'm new to motorcycles so no flames please. I don't >have my bike yet so I need a few pieces of information: > >[...] Any stories on how you all learned? I'll tell you my story as an example of what *not* to do. Early in 1984 I took some riding lessons from my college roommate on his old Honda CB360T. He had taken the MSF beginner's course, so I actually learned *some* of what I needed to know to ride. I proceeded to buy a beat-up Honda CL350 for $400 and a $12 helmet and rode around wearing this and a cotton windbreaker. Then I decided to invest in a full-face helmet (first smart move). Sometime around then I also passed my road test. On May 4, 1984, I got caught in a rainstorm on my way home from a 4-mile trip. Entering the town where I lived (a rather urban suburb), I had to stop suddenly for a red light that I noticed too late, skidded the rear tire out, and was ejected face upward into the oncoming lane of traffic. Fortunately for me the oncoming traffic was also stopped for the same red light, otherwise I might have slid under a car and been killed. Now this is anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but I later took the Experienced Rider Course from the MSF and saw that earlier training could have helped me greatly. In your case the need is even greater since you have nobody to help you practice even the most basic stuff as I did. So my advice is to take the MSF beginner's course first thing. I wouldn't even buy a bike until you've taken the course, unless you happen to pick up a real good deal and can store it someplace until you're ready to use it. >1) I only have about $1200-1300 to work with, so that would have >to cover everything (bike, helmet, anything else that I'm too >ignorant to know I need to buy) While you're waiting to take the course (it might take a few weeks in DC, as I recall there were always waiting lists in Boston), could you save up some more money to start out right? Say $300 for riding gear, plus the cost bike, plus maybe $100 (guess) to a mechanic to make sure the machine is safe (assuming you economize by buying some old beat-up machine from a private individual), plus insurance, plus registration and licensing fees, plus the course, you're looking at maybe $600 not including the bike itself and a reserve for ongoing maintenance. >2) What is buying a bike going to do to my insurance? I turn 18 in >about a month so my parents have been taking care of my insurance up >till now, and I need a comprehensive list of costs that buying a >motorcycle is going to insure (I live in Washington DC if that makes >a difference) I pay about $100 insurance now (upstate NY) but it was closer to $200 in Boston (more urban) for decent insurance including substantial coverage for liability, which you want unless you plan always to be poor. I'd guess DC is more like Boston than like a rural area, ergo more expensive. >3) Any recommendations on what I should buy/where I should look for it? There used to be annual buyer's guides in the usual motorcycle magazines; I found those helpful in getting an idea of what new or recent models might be available. You could probably look through past issues to size up what used bikes might be available. (My first bike was 13 years old when I bought it so I went on my friend's advice instead.) Also look at the bikes that you see people riding or that are parked on the street. I basically settled on my present bike by noticing that there were a lot of high-mileage BMW's running around and they were generally set up the way I wanted. Nothing wrong with talking to various dealers in your area or visiting showrooms. Dealers in the Boston area, at least when I was shopping, were very nice about letting you look around their showrooms and quoting prices for bikes that weren't the latest models (hence cheaper), although I ended up buying both bikes in private sales. -- David Karr (karr@cs.cornell.edu) -- '80 BMW R65 DoD #0969 also BMWMOA, NRA, ACLU, et al. ",8 "Wanted: Moltmann's God in Creation I'm greatly in need of Jurgen Moltmann's book God in Creation: An Ecological Doctrine of Creation. If you have a copy you're willing to part with, I'd love to hear from you soon. You may call me at 312-702- 8367 or e-mail me. Thanks. ========================================================================================== Susan Soric Independent agent susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.edu ",19 "Dragon's Lair II & Space Ace ARCADE games for sale Dragon's Lair II ($400 Complete) ------------------------------------- or $220 Laser Disc $150 Motherboard/Joystick/buttons $35 Graphics (For arcade cabinet) $50 Brick Power Supply +12/-12/+5 Space Ace ($430 Complete) -------------------------------------- or $250 Laser Disc $150 Motherboard/Joystick/buttons $35 Graphics (For arcade cabinet) $50 Brick Power Supply +12/-12/+5 Both Space Ace and Dragon's Lair II ($750) ----------------------------------------------- These games require a Sony 1450 Laserdisc player. The nice thing about this player is that you can also watch normal Laserdisc movies on it as well. I have one which I will sell for $600 by itself, $550 with a purchase of one complete system or $500 if you buy both systems. I currently run this into my entertainment center. I have it housed in a PC computer case with with its own fan, and power supply. I run the audio into my stereo system, and the laserdisc runs directly into the T.V.. I have made a mount for the joysticks and the buttons. First person who buys both games will get it all, otherwise you have to do it yourself. If you would prefer to have it all housed in a normal arcade cabinet this can be done as well. The graphics will go nicely along the sides and front of the cabinet. Everything works perfectly. The laserdisc player has an RS-232 port which you can use to develop your own multimedia type applications. The Laserdiscs have been stored in a safe place and have no scratches on them. If you are interested please email me. Thanks, Soren -------------------------------------------------------------- Soren Burkhart Purdue University ""Yes, well that is just the sort of A.I. & Robotics blink-headed pig ignorance I have zoron@en.ecn.purdue.edu come to expect from you non-creative garbage."" John Cleese (Monty Python) ",6 "Re: Win NT - what is it??? In article <1qmc7e$g1b@access.digex.net>, wild@access.digex.com (wildstrom) writes: |> From: wild@access.digex.com (wildstrom) |> Subject: Re: Win NT - what is it??? |> Date: 16 Apr 1993 09:27:10 -0400 //// Much stuff deleted ////// What is Win32? I upgraded to Mathcad 4.0 and it installed a directory for Win32 under \windows\system . During the upgrade it told me that win32 was required. ",2 "Re: Is ""Christian"" a dirty word? In article @usceast.cs.scarolina.edu:moss@cs.scarolina.edu (James Moss) writes: >I was brought up christian, but I am not christian any longer. >I also have a bad taste in my mouth over christianity. I (in >my own faith) accept and live my life by many if not most of the >teachings of christ, but I cannot let myself be called a christian, >beacuse to me too many things are done on the name of christianity, >that I can not be associated with. A question for you - can you give me the name of an organization or a philosophy or a political movement, etc., which has never had anything evil done in its name? You're missing a central teaching of Christianity - man is inherently sinful. We are saved through faith by grace. Knowing that, believing that, does not make us without sin. Furthermore, not all who consider themselves ""christians"" are (even those who manage to head their own ""churches""). ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."" - Matt. 7:21. >I also have a problem with the inconsistancies in the Bible, and >how it seems to me that too many people have edited the original >documents to fit their own world views, thereby leaving the Bible >an unbelievable source. Again, what historical documents do you trust? Do you think Hannibal crossed the Alps? How do you know? How do you know for sure? What historical documents have stood the scrutiny and the attempts to dis- credit it as well as the Bible has? >I don't have dislike of christians (except for a few who won't >quit witnessing to me, no matter how many times I tell them to stop), >but the christian faith/organized religion will never (as far as i can >see at the moment) get my support. Well, it's really a shame you feel this way. No one can browbeat you into believing, and those who try will probably only succeed in driving you further away. You need to ask yourself some difficult questions: 1) is there an afterlife, and if so, does man require salvation to attain it. If the answer is yes, the next question is 2) how does man attain this salvation - can he do it on his own as the eastern religions and certain modern offshoots like the ""new age movement"" teach or does he require God's help? 3) If the latter, in what form does - indeed, in what form can such help come? Needless to say, this discussion could take a lifetime, and for some people it did comprise their life's writings, so I am hardly in a position to offer the answers here - merely pointers to what to ask. Few, of us manage to have an unshaken faith our entire lives (certainly not me). The spritual life is a difficult journey (if you've never read ""A Pilgrim's Progress,"" I highly recommend this greatest allegory of the english language). >Peace and Love >In God(ess)'s name >James Moss Now I see by your close that one possible source of trouble for you may be a conflict between your politcal beliefs and your religious upbringing. You wrote that ""I (in my own faith) accept and live my life by many if not most of the teachings of christ"". Well, Christ referred to God as ""My Father"", not ""My Mother"", and while the ""maleness"" of God is not the same as the maleness of those of us humans who possess a Y chromosome, it does not honor God to refer to Him as female purely to be trendy, non-discriminatory, or politically correct. This in no way disparages women (nor is it my intent to do so by my use of the male pronoun to refer to both men and women - english just does not have a decent neuter set of pronouns). After all, God chose a woman as his only human partner in bringing Christ into the human population. Well, I'm not about to launch into a detailed discussion of the role of women in Christianity at 1am with only 6 hours of sleep in the last 63, and for that reason I also apologize for any shortcomings in this article. I just happened across yours and felt moved to reply. I hope I may have given you, and anyone else who finds himself in a similar frame of mind, something to contemplate. Karl Dussik ",15 "Urbana 93 mission conference I would like to hear from people who are thinking of going to the Urbana 93 conference in December this year. I have recently received info from IFES (International Fellowship of Evangelical Students) and am thinking about attending although I am still not sure whether I can afford it. I would also like to hear from people involved in IFES or IVF groups just to hear how things are going on your campus. Are there any news groups or groups of people who already do this. I am involved in the Christian Fellowship at the University of Technology Sydney in Australia. If you are interested to find out how we are going mail me to find out. Matt Reimer Email: M.Reimer@uts.edu.au ",15 "Re: Thumbs up to ESPN In article <1993Apr20.032017.5783@wuecl.wustl.edu> jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes: > > It was nice to see ESPN show game 1 between the Wings and Leafs since >the Cubs and Astros got rained out. Instead of showing another baseball >game, they decided on the Stanley Cup Playoffs. A classy move by ESPN. > The only reason ESPN showed that hockey came was because there was no other baseball game scheduled for the evening. Randy r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu > > %*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* > * __ ______________ ____________________________________ % > % \ \_)____________/ A L L E Z L E S B L U E S ! ! ! * > * \ __________/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ % > % \ ________/ * > * \ _______/ Joe Ashkar % > % \ \ Contact for the Blues * > * \ \ SAINT LOUIS jca2@cec1.wustl.edu % > % (___) BLUES * > *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% ",10 "Kawi KZ 750 partial engine disassembly ? My Kawasaki KZ 750 L4 has 2-3 millimetres of play on the gearchange pedal axle, in other words, I can move the axle sideways & up-and-down for few millimetres to each direction. This doesn't bother me when riding, but I guess fixing it wouldn't hurt. Last summer I took the bike to a shop to have the valves adjusted, and the mechanic mentioned that it should be an easy job. All I would have to do is to remove the front sprocket cover and replace a bushing or a seal that I would find there. Well, upon a closer inspection I discovered that the gearchange axle doesn't even run through the sprocket cover. It seems that, in addition to removing the cover, I would have at least to remove the sprocket and then the cover that is behind the sprocket. Question : Would removing this small cover from the left side of the engine enable me to lay my hands on that bushing/seal (Don't know the exact term in english, sorry) ? Question : Has anybody done this disassembly job for this or some other purpose ? Does the oil, for example, stay inside the engine ? Thanks ! Teppo Nieminen DoD #2000 Zoo Mc Helsinki Finland ",8 "Christian Parenting Hi I am a Sociology student and I am currently researching into young offenders. I am looking at the way various groups of children are raised at home. At the moment I am formlulating information on discipline within the Christian home. Please, if you are a parent in this catagory can you email me your response to the following questionaire. All responses will be treated confidentially and will only be used to prepare stats. 1. Ages & sexes of children 2. Do you spank your kids? 3. If so how often? 4. Do you use an implement to spank with? 5. If you do not spank, what method of discipline do you use? 6. Your age? 7. Your location 8. While under the age of 16 did you ever commit a criminal offence? 9. How ere you disciplined as a kid Thank you in advance for any reply you can make. Please e-mail your replies rather than post them on the newsgroup [I hope it is obvious that responses to this question are likely to have serious problems when used for research purposes. Our readers are not likely to be a random sample of Christians, and this form does not contain enough information to act as a stratified sample. Perhaps someone who is familiar with research methods might want to correspond with him. --clh] ",15 "How to detect use of an illegal cipher? How can the government tell which encryption method one is using without being able to decode the traffic? i.e., In order to accuse me of using an unauthorized strong encryption technique they would have to take both keys out of escrow, run them against my ciphertext and ""draw a blank"". I can imagine the ciphertext exhibiting certain statistical characteristics that might give a clue as to the encryption technique used, but not enough to give a handle for diferential cryptoanalysis. However, superencipherment or some other scheme that shapes the percieved properties of my ciphertext could thwart this. ",11 "Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon In article <1993Apr14.155159.32619@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes: >Yes, I have the same questions. What makes me upset is that R12 costs are >skyrocketing and in fact can't be bought anymore in my area. Also this is yet >another way mechanics and dealers can RIP-OFF customers. Also I was reading >that the new refrigerant is not compatible with the r12 system and that it >would cost $ 300 upto a $ 1000 to retrofit a car with the old R12 system. >ALthough it is important to consider the environment I think the sudden ban is >a slap in the face for the consumer. Why is it that the consumer should have >to pay for the retrofit? The auto companies should have seen this coming? Also >why is it that the governments of the world were so quick in banning freon use >and yet so slow in banning gasoline. In my opinion gasoline is just as >hazardous as anything else. Why can't they start proposing bans on this and >switch to natural gas or electric? The technology is there. Hopefully some >chemist will come up with another alternative coolant that will be compatible >with the old system. >Al H. Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for R12. You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning Society (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash those R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very shaky technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst). Does this piss you off? Yes? Write a letter to your congressman, to your senator, to the president, to the EPA, and to the DOT and complain. Later, -- Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. ",7 "Re: BOB KNEPPER WAS NOT RIGHT In article <1993Apr19.150800.1608@news.stolaf.edu> eblom@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (The Woodman) writes: >In article <1993Apr19.035406.11473@news.yale.edu> (Austin Jacobs) writes: >>Don't you GUYS think so? I mean, c'mon! What the heck are women doing >>even THINKING of getting into baseball. >Oh, I don't know. Maybe because they love the game? > > > They cause so many problems. Just >>look at Lisa Olson. Remember that feisty reporter that entered the New >>England Patriots locker room? She started crying like a LITTLE GIRL! >So people deal with unfair treatment differently. I suppose you would have >more respect if she punched out some people, like a stereotypical macho >man would have done? > I >>just don't think women belong in a man's sport. Before you smart guys >>flame me for this, I know the given example was about football. Who cares? >> It still applies to other MALE sports. >MALE sports are only that way because they won't let women be involved. There >is no Divine Providence segregating sports. It is the decision of the men >who run it. Men almost as liberal thinking as you... > >> How can we have women umpires? >Ummm...By insisting they pass an Accredited Umpire course, then hiring them? > >>Jeez! Look at Pam Postema. Just because she's a woman, everybody on the >>face of the earth thinks it's great that she's getting an opportunity to >>ump. If you even watched the games and had an IQ greater than that of >>roast beef, you'd see that she is not nearly as good as most AAA umpires. >>Besides, she is probably more worried about cracking a fingernail with a >>foul tip off of Wade Boggs' bat. Or Jose Oquendo's bat. >Listen, Mr Status Quo: I know Pam Postema. I've seen her work. She is, without >question, the toughest person I've ever met. She doesn't give a damn about >her fingernails, but does care about working the game. She's not there to find >a man to take care of her, but to do the best job ANY umpire can do. Your >bullshit comments are obviously tailored to show off the red on you neck, not >your grasp on society. There's nothing wrong with a red neck. Why, some of us hicks even listen to cultured music and such, can you say the same? Aside from that, you shouldn't try to shit on this guy by insulting where YOU think he comes from. Where I'm from, we milk cows, drive trucks, and yes, even like baseball. So screw anyone that doesn't like it. Oh yeah, learn the difference between to and too city-boy! (see below) -thom unnumbered wanna-be member of the Bob Knepper Fan Club (BKFC) > > Either way, there >>are too many complications. >Nobody said life was easy. Pam is aware of that. To bad that she has to be >judged by people like you, who can't look past anatomy. > >>QAustin Jacobs (Bob Knepper Fan Club Member #12 >Were you ever an Organized Baseball owner, or in the political system before >women could vote? You seem to feel threatened... > >TTFN - Woody >No smileys here either. None. ",9 "Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. In article jhart@agora.rain.com (Jim Hart) writes: > >[...] > >Astronomers have been using the night sky for thousands of years -- >they own it. If they don't complain now against scenic trespassers >(eg light polluters), they will lose their common-law right of ownership. > Is English (American, Canadian, etc.) common law recognized as legally binding under international law? After all, we're talking about something that by its very nature isn't limited to the territory of one nation. Doug Loss loss@husky.bloomu.edu ",14 "Re: what to do with old 256k SIMMs? In article wex@cs.ulowell.edu writes: >In article <1993Apr15.100452.16793@csx.cciw.ca>, u009@csx.cciw.ca (G. Stewart Beal) writes: >|> > I was wondering if people had any good uses for old >|> >256k SIMMs. I have a bunch of them for the Apple Mac >|> >and I know lots of other people do to. I have tried to >|> >sell them but have gotten NO interest. > >We use them as Christmas tree decorations, the cat doesn't eat these. Yes, but they don't look appropriate. I much prefer used 833 tubes on my tree. --scott ",12 "Boston C of C Note: the following article is submitted on behalf of someone (Frank daniels) who has difficulty posting to s.r.c, email replies to daniels@math.ufl.edu I am unable to post to the bitnet groups. Here is a capsule history of the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement in the Churches of Christ (i.e. Crossroads/Boston): I could trace the Movement back as far as 1800, and indeed some of its roots go back that far, but these were really ""influences"" on the Movement, and not the actual movement, per se. I will start in c.1920. In that day, there were 'white' churches and 'colored' churches in nearly every area (due to segregation). Modern Pentecostalism was developing as a predominantly 'colored' phenomenon. Here, there was great fanaticism, emphasis on emotional experiences, and belief in a personal guidance and indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Many 'white' Protestant churches were growing into what became known as conservative fundamentalism. By the 1940s, the evangelical movement was in full swing, and many groups were becoming part of it. When the civil rights movement grew stronger (in the 1950's and 1960's), many 'white' church groups began to be influenced by the 'black' churches and by what was going on there. This spread started in the most liberal of groups and spread to the more conservative ones by the late '60's. In 1969, even the Catholic Church was displaying evidence of influence by the other groups...still evident today. The Churches of Christ are (and were) a very conservative Protestant group. When the influence from outside began to reach the CofC in c.1965, it was generally not appreciated. Conservative groups are very strongly resistant to change, and the new movement was VERY different from the CofC status quo. The magazines put out at that time by CofC folks tell the story as it unfolds. New ideas came into the CofC. There was a big push to reach out to college students, young adults, and teens. Some called this the Campus Evangel- ism Movement. Emotions, generally not highly regarded in the CofC at large, played a more important role in the new movement. In some places, people began to speak in tongues (as their Pentecostal predecessors did). This was met with extreme criticism from within the Churches of Christ. In some places, people were fired from their jobs for speaking in tongues or for advocating the ""Holy Spirit Movement"", another name for the new branch. The term ""Underground Church of Christ"" also came into use because these people had to hide their differences (or they might be ostricised). There were several congregations, however, whose leaderships were receptive to the new ideas (at least in part; the tongues-speaking never really caught on). One of these was the 14th Street Church of Christ in Gainesville, FL. Campus Ministry had already been regarded as important at 14th Street, and the new ideas seemed to be very helpful tools for evangelism. They also seemed to put vitality into the church, which many felt had been lacking. In October of 1967, the 14th Street congregation hired Chuck Lucas to be its Campus Minister. By 1970, he would move to being the congregation's (lead) Minister. In the late 60's/early 70's, the congregation worked with many other groups. They held Bible discussions at Daytona Beach during Spring Break. They organized talks in the fraternities on the University of Florida campus. They also worked with UF sports people. In 1972, the congregation ordered a larger building to be constructed. When it was finished, the group moved and changed its name (now no longer appropriate). It became the Crossroads Church of Christ from then on, a name that would become legendary. By this time, Crossroads was basically the only CofC whose programs were fully aligned to the new movement. While they didn't start it, they continued it and were responsible for where it wound up going. By 1975, none of the other Churches of Christ in the area felt that they could cooperate with Crossroads, due to what they recognized as doctrinal problems at Crossroads. Crossroads had begun to heavily emphasize, and later require attendance at all church functions. It was seen as a good thing for each member to have at least one close relationship, a person with whom you would share all of your problems, pray, and get help from. The concept was called Prayer Partners, which later became Discipleship Partners and also later became mandatory. The leadership was assigning prayer partners to people for a while. The book called ""The Master Plan of Evangelism"" was a strong influence on Chuck Lucas. He (and the group) believed that it was every person's duty and life purpose to carry out the great commission. Crossroads was growing in number, and numbers became VERY important (some would say all-important). A person who ""was evangelistic"" was ""spiritual"". Evangelism meant inviting people to Crossroads events; if you did this a lot and some of them converted, then you were ""spiritual"". There were sermons about how if you bought groceries, the cashier and bag boy ought to receive invitations to services. Everyone at your job ought to receive invitations. Since these people needed Jesus, you should be ""aggressive""--don't take 'no' for an answer. If you did not evangelize enough, you came to be called ""lazy"" or ""unspiritual"". By the end of the decade, the Prayer Partner system was integrated into a structure. The Elders and Ministers were on top (like a big pyramid). Then the group leaders, Bible study leaders, and members. Everyone who came in had someone placed over them. It is at this time, 1978-1980, that the bad press about Crossroads began to circulate. The problem with rape on the University of Florida campus was tremendous, but Crossroads was considered a bigger and more immediate problem. There were many complaints about the congregation and its ""pushy"" evangelistic tactics. Crossroads was considering the other Churches of Christ to be ""dead"" churches, which aggravated them; it was aggressively recruiting out of the other church groups (denominations), which aggravated THEM. By this time, Crossroads had grown numerically to the point (1100) where not only did they believe that they would soon need a new building, but also they were sending out ""planting"" [create a new church] and ""reconstructing"" [reorganize an existing church] teams to other cities. By this time, the Crossroads Movement was underway. A group was sent to the 30-member Lexington Church of Christ in Boston, MA. The team was headed up by Kip McKean, who had been converted out of a fraternity by Crossroads (in Gainesville). Kip held a still stronger view of church authority, which he believed was heavily vested in the Evangelist(s), and not so much in the Elders. He had been fired in 1977 from the congregation that he had been working at when the elders there found numerous things wrong with his theology, including the practice of what came to be called one-over- one Christianity. [Called this by critics] In the first year, half of the 30 people felt that they did not want to be a part of the new congregation. They left. But others began coming into the new Boston Church of Christ. Ah, but I'm ahead of myself. At Crossroads, the heavy-handed system had begun to take its toll on the members. Many have said that they felt that they were working hard, but they were not achieving the results that were so important. The numbers were dropping. From 1978, Crossroads membership declined steadily. The leadership began to tighten the reigns on the congregation, who was seen as being largely ""unproductive"" and ""unfruitful"". The ""fruit"" passages in the NT were interpreted as referring to new converts. If you were not bearing fruit, said John 15, you would be cast into the fire! [Boston still teaches this.] If you love your neighbor, you'll save his soul (invite him to church and convert him). If you're not doing that, you don't love your neighbor. And if you don't love, you're in danger of backsliding. The logical arguments continue in this vein. In 1985, Chuck Lucas was fired from his job as minister, due to recurring sins in his life. These struggles were never revealed to the congregation at large, although many people outside the congregation had heard about them. For by now, there was very little contact (on a friendship level) between most Crossroads members and those outside. [If you have contact, your focus should be on converting them. Bring them to a Bible Study.] Chuck's replacement was Joe Woods, who was fully supportive of the Boston system. As Boston grew in number, they began to offer 'training' sessions for other ministers. Joe went to Boston to be trained and returned to Cross- roads ready to emphasize the ""total commitment"" to the church that Boston and Kip McKean were now emphasizing. Eventually, in Fall of 1987, the Elders at Crossroads (now 2 in number--Dick Whitehead and Bill Hogle) made a decision. Boston was demanding that all of the other churches in the movement come under the direction of the church in Boston. The Elders refused, citing their belief that each church should be autonomous (something true in all non-Boston Churches of Christ). Perhaps there was also some degree of offense done here, since Crossroads was no longer the 'example' to the rest of the Movement. The group now numbered about 800, while Boston was now larger (in membership). The Churches of Christ generally teach that baptism is a necessary element of salvation. At Crossroads, they taught what was called 'Lordship' baptism: you had to understand the commitment involved before you could be baptized. You had to 'count the cost'. At Boston, they took this a step further. If at some time you became ""unproductive"", then your spirituality was suspect. People would begin to ask you if you REALLY understood what you were getting into. Anyone who said 'no' had their baptism deemed invalid: they hadn't counted the cost properly. They still had to be baptized. Others called this ""rebaptism"", and Crossroads didn't approve of this practice. When Crossroads announced that it would not follow Boston, many of its members left Crossroads and went to Movement-related ministries, which were now called Discipling Ministries. You were either discipling (evangelizing) or you were ""dead"". They also used the nickname ""Movement of God"" for a while. By Summer of 1988, Crossroads was withdrawn from the Movement and now stood alone. They had few to no allies in the mainstream Churches of Christ, and now none in the Movement. Boston, however, continued to chart its course in the direction that they had been following. They sent ""reconstruction teams"" to many cities, which usually meant that they split the church there. They stopped acknowledging other churches of Christ as Christians and began to call themselves the ""remnant"". The ""remnant"" of the Jews in the OT are those who are saved by God. It was felt that the ""remnant"" today represents all the Christians. Sometimes they would simply call their Movement ""the church"". They usually took the name of the city for their name, implying to the other Churches of Christ that Boston did not recognize their existence. Many campuses have now formally forbidden Boston ministries from recruiting there due to the number of complaints. In some cases, it has been documented that Boston ministries have lied to University officials in order to continue to have access to the campus. Any resistance that they experience is termed ""perse- cution"", which all true Christians are expected to experience. Are you really a Christian if you're not being persecuted? The numbers at Boston peaked at c.3000 in 1989. Since then, they have fought to remain steady. I have heard a tape of Kip McKean shouting at the leaders for failing to fulfill the Great Commission (their life's purpose) as God commanded them. Their Christianity is highly centered on commands and obedience. Crossroads once was called a cult. Boston is now recognized by the Cult Awareness Network and other national and international groups as a cult, under a formal definition, because of the techniques which they employ. The term ""cult"" is usually differentiated from ""sect"" by the practice of those techniques. The techniques which they employ are recognized by many as being techniques of destructive pursuasion, also used by other Shepherding Discipleship groups. [Robert Jay Lifton, Margaret Thaler Singer, and many others have written about the topic.] These techniques include guilt motivation, emotional manipulation, loaded language, the aura of sacred science (a sort of mystic element seen in everyday events), and others. I have no particular axe to grind against the Movement. I have numer- ous friends who are still part of the Movement. I have never had a 'falling out' with anyone in the Movement. I disagree with many things which they teach. I recognize the psychological damage done by being involved in such a system. I hold no loyalty to the mainstream Churches of Christ and do not defend their mistakes either. I want to point out, though, that unlike in many other systems which are in other ways similar, the Leadership of the Boston Movement are as much victims of the system as the members. We do not have a leader who enjoys manipulating his people. The leaders believe what they teach, and they feel accountable for the activites (and spiritual welfare) of the members. When members do not evangelize to their expectations, for example, the leaders feel personally responsible as well. The leaders are not out for money or power. They want to evangelize the world in their lifetime. I have said too much, but there is much more to say. There are many examples I could give and quotes from other sources (including Boston bulletins) that I could include. But this is too long already. You may post this if you so desire. Frank D. | ""Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."" | | ""Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."" | | (proverbs 26:4&5) [Believe it or not, questions about the Boston Church of Christ are among the most commonly asked. In order to avoid having s.r.c. dealing with this on a continuous basis, I allow discussion only periodically. By now I've got a 150K FAQ file (which has both sides, by the way). This gives enough addition information on history that it seems worth posting and adding to the FAQ. --clh] ",15 "Re: was:Go Hezbollah! In article <1993Apr15.224353.24945@das.harvard.edu>, adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes: |> Tell me, do these young men also attack Syrian troops? In the South Lebanon area, only Israeli (and SLA) and Lebanese troops are present. Syrian troops are deployed north of the Awali river. Between the Awali river and the ""Security Zone"" only Lebanese troops are stationed. |> |> >with the blood of its soldiers. If Israel is interested in peace, |> >than it should withdraw from OUR land. |> |> There must be a guarantee of peace before this happens. It |> seems that many of these Lebanese youth are unable to restrain |> themselves from violence, and unable to to realize that their actions |> prolong Israels stay in South Lebanon. That is your opinion and the opinion of the Israeli government. I agree peace guarantees would be better for all, but I am addressing the problem as it stands now. Hopefully a comprehensive peace settlement will be concluded soon, and will include security guarantees for both sides. My proposal was aimed at decreasing the casualties in the interim period. In my opinion, if Israel withdraws unilaterally it would still be better off than staying. The Israeli gov't obviously agrees with you and is not willing to do such a move. I hope to be be able to change your opinion and theirs, that's why I post to tpm. |> If the Lebanese army was able to maintain the peace, then |> Israel would not have to be there. Until it is, Israel prefers that |> its soldiers die rather than its children. As I explained, I contend that if Israel does withdraw unilaterally I believe no attacks would ensue against northern Israel. I also explained why I believe that to be the case. My suggestion is aimed at reducing the level of tension and casualties on all sides. It is unfortunate that Israel does not agree with my opinion. |> |> >If Israel really wants to save some Israeli lives it would withdraw |> >unilaterally from the so-called ""Security Zone"" before the conclusion |> >of the peace talks. Such a move would save Israeli lives, |> >advance peace efforts, give Israel a great moral lift, better Israel's |> >public image abroad and give it an edge in the peace negociations |> >since Israel can rightly claim that it is genuinely interested in |> >peace and has already offered some important concessions. |> |> Israel should withdraw from Lebanon when a peace treaty is |> signed. Not a day before. Withdraw because of casualties would tell |> the Lebanese people that all they need to do to push Israel around is |> kill a few soldiers. Its not gonna happen. That is too bad. |> >Along with such a withdrawal Israel could demand that Hizbollah |> >be disarmed by the Lebanese government and warn that it will not |> >accept any attacks against its northern cities and that if such a |> >shelling occurs than it will consider re-taking the buffer zone |> >and will hold the Lebanese and Syrian government responsible for it. |> |> |> Why should Israel not demand this while holding the buffer |> zone? It seems to me that the better bargaining position is while |> holding your neighbors land. Because Israel is not occupying the ""Security Zone"" free of charge. It is paying the price for that. Once Israel withdraws it may have lost a bargaining chip at the negociating table but it would save some soldiers' lives, that is my contention. If Lebanon were willing to agree to |> those conditions, Israel would quite probably have left already. |> Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the Lebanese can disarm the |> Hizbolah, and maintain the peace. That is completely untrue. Hizbollah is now a minor force in Lebanese politics. The real heavy weights are Syria's allies. The gov't is supported by Syria. The Lebanese Army is over 30,000 troops and unified like never before. Hizbollah can have no moral justification in attacking Israel proper, especially after Israeli withdrawal. That would draw the ire of the Lebanese the Syrian and the Israeli gov'ts. If Israel does withdraw and such an act (Hizbolllah attacking Israel) would be akin to political and moral suicide. Basil |> Adam |> Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu |> |> ""If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure |> wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."" -John Perry Barlow ",17 "ESPN cares less about hockey ESPN is pathetic, I have been watching everybody complain about ESPN's coverage and I agree with all of you. Might I suggest that we are getting all worked up over nothing. We ALL knew that ESPN's coverage was going to suck. I mean have you ever watched during the regular season Sportscenter coverage of hockey? It sucks, I mean really sucks!!! ESPN does not know hockey if it shot them in the ass. I was really pissed of about last night, coverage. I go to school in Ohio I *know* the Indians suck, so why show them? If I were Bill Clement I would shoot myself. Anyway after I calmed down after I realized that they were not going to show overtime of the Caps Isles game I thought to myself I knew that this was going to happen, in fact I remerbed myself praying that at least they would keep even the boring Devils game. Overall I think ESPN does not care if they show hockey or not and I firmly belive that they have know respect for the fans. ie *because of contract obligations*, screw you ESPN. Praise be to all hockey fans who put up with this shit! GO HAWKS!!! JB ",10 "Re: Jews can't hide from keith@cco. In article <1993Apr3.153552.4334@mac.cc.macalstr.edu>, acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu writes: |> In article <1pint5$1l4@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes > > Well, Germany was hardly the ONLY country to discriminate against the > Jews, although it has the worst reputation because it did the best job > of expressing a general European dislike of them. This should not turn > into a debate on antisemitism, but you should also point out that Luther's > antiSemitism was based on religious grounds, while Hitler's was on racial > grounds, and Wagnmer's on aesthetic grounds. Just blanketing the whole > group is poor analysis, even if they all are bigots. I find these to be intriguing remarks. Could you give us a bit more explanation here? For example, which religion is anti-semitic, and which aesthetic? jon. ",0 "Cordless Telephone & Answering Machine FOR SALE I have a few just bought a new phone/answering machine combo so I really don't need my present setup. Both items are in great condition. Prices DO NOT include shipping. If you have any questions contact me by E-Mail or call me at (814)234-4439. Darryl ======================================================================== Toshiba FT6000 Cordless Phone $40 - Rubber antenna, 10 number memory AT&T 6300 Answering Machine $35 - Remote operation (Message Retrieval, Reset, OGM change) - Toll saving feature - Single tape operation ",6 "Re: Final Solution for Gaza ? In article <1993Apr26.221119.22144@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes: >In article <2BDC2931.17498@news.service.uci.edu> tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes: > >>Certainly, the Israeli had a legitimate worry behind the action they took, >>but isn't that action a little draconian? > > What alternative would you suggest be taken to safeguard the >lives of Israeli citizens? > >Adam >Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu > Tell *them* to stay home? :-) Sorry, terrible attempt at homour there. Alternative? Hell, I don't know. But...its perfectly possible to have objections to a particular policy while feeling that there is no ""alternative choice"". -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "DOS Quick C 2.5 crashes Windows 3.1? I am using DOS Quick C 2.5 in a DOS window under Windows 3.1, and the other day while I was running the compiler, I got a general protection fault immediately followed by a ""serious disk error"". When I rebooted, I found that about 15 files had gotten ""cross-linked"" which is a pretty serious corruption of the hard drive file system. I am concerned that Quick C in a DOS window has somehow strayed outside its protected mode world and corrupted the smartdrv.exe disk cache and that is what caused the disk problem. I thought that DOS programs run in DOS windows were pretty well-contained by Windows. If that is true, then maybe the Quick C compiler has nothing to do with it. Has anybody else had this type of problem? (I only recently ""upgraded"" from Quick C 2.0 to 2.5.) Brad Banko -- Brad Banko; Dept of Physics; U of Illinois; b-banko@uiuc.edu ========================================================================= See one. Do one. Teach one. 73 de kb8cne @ n9lnq.il ",2 " ICS Widget data book Does anyone know how I can obtain information about the ICS widget data book? I only have their email address, and they don't seem to be reading (or replying) to their mail. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ! Jan-Olav Eide, Software Engineer / Systems Administrator ! ! snail mail : ! email : ! ! Nordic Offshore Systems ! olav@nordic-offshore.no ! ! Drilling Information Services ! voice : ! ! Ringsveien 3, Box 185 ! (+47) 67125580 ext. 211 ! ! 1321 Stabekk ! fax : ! ! Norway ! (+47) 67125401 ! ! ""I don't believe in astrology. But then I'm a Capricorn, and ! ! Capricorns don't believe in astrology"" ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ! Jan-Olav Eide, Software Engineer / Systems Administrator ! ! snail mail : ! email : ! ! Nordic Offshore Systems ! olav@nordic-offshore.no ! ",5 "Re: Changing oil by self. bobml@mxmsd.msd.measurex.com (Bob LaGesse) writes: [Long silly discussion deleted...] > And while you're at it, why bother with removing >the drain plug when you could remove the dipstick instead and suck it out from >there with your mouth and then spit it out? This suggestion isn't as far-fetched as it sounds. Years ago in another time and place, I used to do oil changes in boats powered by automotive engines. In many cases, there was no way to get any sort of a tray under the oil pan because it was boxed in by the bottom of the hull and various floation chambers on each side. And if you *did* get something there, you'd spill all the oil out of it for sure trying to get it back out again. So we used a small pump powered by an electric drill to suck the oil out the dipstick hole. There was a long/thin hose on the inlet side designed to fit down the dipstick tube, and another, thicker/shorter hose on the outlet side that you put into any convenient container. I'm sure these gadgets are still available from marine hardware suppliers if you want one. Mart L. Molle Computer Systems Research Institute University of Toronto Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4 (416)978-4928 ",7 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article v111qheg@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (P.VASILION) writes: > > Woa, little brain trust. Brian, this who thing is not about someone >thinking they are THE SECOND COMMING. Its about **YOUR** civil rights. Would >you want the FEDS to come marching into your home with a warrant that probably >wouldn't stand up in court, arrest you and your family after attempting to kill >you and haul you off to jail without due process? This is what has happened >in Texas. With the Davidians all dead, no one will know the truth - only >what the White House wants you to think. Government does not exist for you! >Government exists for itself and will do what ever it needs to preserve >itself. Probably not. But then, I don't pack heavy weaponry with intent to use it. You don't really think he should have been allowed to keep that stuff do you? If so, tell me where you live so I can be sure to steer well clear. The public also has rights, and they should be placed above those of the individual. Go ahead, call me a commie, but you'd be singing a different tune if I exercised my right to rape your daughter. He broke the law, he was a threat to society, they did there job - simple. > Support your First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth >Amendment rights, lest they be taken away from you just as the FBI did >to the Davidians. Think about it. I'll support them all (except no. 2) >Peter Vasilion, kb2nmv ><> -Tim ______________________________________________________________________________ | | | | Timothy J. Brent | A man will come to know true happiness, | | BRENT@bank.ecn.purdue.edu | only when he accepts that he is but a | |=========$$$$==================| small part of an infinite universe. | | PURDUE UNIVERSITY | -Spinoza | | MATERIALS SCIENCE ENGINEERING | [paraphrased] | |_______________________________|______________________________________________| ________________________________________________________________________________ ",19 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr21.045548.17418@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st922957@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Arnold Schwarzenweisengreenbluenbraunenburger) says: > >Y'know, when the right to bear arms was ""invented"", all we had to worry >about was the shotgun and pistol. Now, we have to worry about drive-bys >with Uzis sparaying the entire neighborhood with bullets. > >Just because someting was good once, does not mean it will be forever. Quite so. All automobiles should be banned immediately. ",16 "Tx. Senator Bob Krueger RTKBA statement For those of you interested, I just finished talking with a representative of Senator Bob Krueger's reelection campaign about his position on the RTKBA. Krueger was appointed by the Democratic Governor of Texas to complete Lloyd Bentsen's unexpired term. The representative said that Senator Krueger did not have a position and would only comment on specific legislation that was pending. No comment was available on the various versions of the Brady Bill. Be warned and vote accordingly. ",16 "Re: Gun Control, who needs it? In article <1r7693$64f@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: [stuff deleted] >3) The ""teflon bullet"" bill proposed by NRA included MUCH more than ^^^ I think you mean HCI here. > ""teflon bullets"" -- it would have banned damn near ALL COMMON HUNTING > AMMUNITION. > >4) We finally did get a bill that outlawed the sale of ""teflon bullets"" -- > and ONLY ""teflon bullets"" -- outside the law enforcement community. > Guess who wrote it, Joe m'boy? It was your beloved NRA. > [snip] >Followups to t.p.g. >-- > >cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, >OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... > Joe -- Joe Preiser AT&T Bell Laboratories azoun@cormyr.att.com Room IH 6G-329 cormyr!azoun 2000 N. Naperville Rd. (708) 979-4152 Naperville, IL 60566 ",16 "Re: Why not concentrate on child molesters? In article , sys1@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes: > In article <15409@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: > >In article , mjcugley@maths-and-cs.dundee.ac.uk (Womble with Attitude) writes: # ## Absolutely nothing, seeing as there is no table for heterosexuals. # ## If, as you claim, the supposedly higher promescuity amongst homosexual # ## males makes them an insurance risk, you need to be show that # ## heterosexual males are less promiscuous than homosexual males. # ## Without the data on heterosexual males, we cannot make a comparison # ## between promiscuity rates of heterosexuals and homosexuals. # ## # ## * mjcugley@maths-and-cs.dundee.ac.uk (world) * # ## * or mjcugley@uk.ac.dund.maths-and-cs (UK) * # # Well, the obvious point to make is would straight men fuck like rabbits # if the oppertunity presented itself? # # I reckon *any* *man* would go wildly promiscuous if presented with a # huge variety of willing partners. The question here is not of being That, I suppose, says a lot about how screwed up you are. # #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! # Xavier -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Re: Pregnency without sex? In article <1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU> matthews@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews) writes: :All right, listen up.... What are the possibilities of transmission through :swimming pool water? Especially if the chlorination isn't up to par? : :I've heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what :else is going on? No dice. As soon as the sperm cells hit the water they would virtually explode. The inside of the cell is hypertonic, and since the membrane is semipermeable water would rush in and cause the cell to burst. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh = = General Internal Medicine | ""...dammit, not a programmer!"" = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",13 "Re: was: Go Hezbollah!! >>>>> On 15 Apr 93 03:13:49 GMT, amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi) said: In article <1993Apr15.031349.21824@src.honeywell.com> amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi) writes: . . . >> Who is the you Arabs here. Since you are replying to my article you >> are assuming that I am an Arab. Well, I'm not an Arab, but I think you >> are brain is full of shit if you really believe what you said. The >> bombardment of civilian and none civilian areas in Lebanon by Israel is >> very consistent with its policy of intimidation. That is the only >> policy that has been practiced by the so called only democracy in >> the middle east! >> I was merley pointing out that the other side is also suffering. >> Like I said, I'm not an Arab but if I was, say a Lebanese, you bet >> I would defende my homeland against any invader by any means. ^^^ The Syrians? Iranian agents? Or just Israeli invaders? -- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ --------------- Gary Bradski I'net: bradski@park.bu.edu | reverberate | Cognitive and Neural Systems --------------- Boston University. | V V 111 Cummington St, Boston MA 02215 ^ Y 617/ 353-6426 ^ ^ | -------------- I don't even agree with some of my opinions | or die! | @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ -------------- ",17 "Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted) In rec.autos, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes: >What we currently know as the 240sx, is known elsewhere as a 200sx. > >-- >Graham E. Thomas * blah blah blah blah blah This is kind of interesting. I always assumed that the 240SX was named because of the 2.4 liter engine which it uses. Likewise for the 200SX which uses a 2.0 liter engine. Isn't this true? George ",7 "Re: How to buy a first bike, etc. In article , dev2@inform.co.nz (Michael Seales) writes: > In article <1993Apr20.083340.2309@galaxy.gov.bc.ca>, bclarke@galaxy.gov.bc.ca writes: >> There have been a *lot* of posts lately about ""I wanna buy my first bike - is a >> GSXR/ZX/CBR/FZR a good bike to learn on?"" etc. > > Sure they are. Here we can buy: > > GSXR250 / GSXR400 > CBR250 / CBR400 > FZR250 / FZR400 > ZXR400 > > So what's the problem? Small agile learner's bikes. Well, the problem just _might_ be that you can't buy any of these bikes in North America. (Except the GSXR 400 -> Bandit 400) -- Bruce Clarke B.C. Environment e-mail: bclarke@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ",8 "Re: A Kinder, Gentler BMW Mailing List rbp@netcom.com (Bob Pasker) writes: ]joe, i'm sorry you felt i was pissing on your list. no disparagement ]was intended and i would be most interested to know what i said that ]made you feel that way. you didn't, I meant 'pissing' like boxer owners 'piss' on K bike owners and K bike owners 'piss' on boxer owners and so forth. in the end it's nothing more than co-owner ribbing. no disparagement was received or returned intentionally, sorry 'bout the lack of :-)'s. -- Joe Senner joe@rider.cactus.org BMW Mailing List bmw@rider.cactus.org Austin Area Ride Mailing List ride@rider.cactus.org ",8 "Re: hawks vs leafs lastnight In article <93106.082502ACPS6992@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> Raj Ramnarace writes: >did anyone else see this game last night ? just like a playoff game!! >lots of hitting...but I was disappointed by the video goal judge... >on all replays, joe murphy's goal shouldn't have counted ! it didn't go in net >!! and according to the tsn broadcasters, the video goal judge said that he >saw the water bottle on top of the cage move so he assumed the puck went in! >this is terrible...hope crap like this doesn't occur in the playoffs! >the game would have ended in 2-2 tie ! I thought the red light went on...thus, in the review, the presumption would be to find conclusive evidence that the puck did not go in the net...from the replays I say, even from the rear, the evidence wasn't conclusive that the puck was in or out...in my opinion... Gerald ",10 "Re: A surfeit of offense? In article <1qi008INNphe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes: > In article <1993Apr14.160447.17835@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: > >Last year the American League scored 9802 runs in 1134 games, for a > >total of 8.6 runs per game, with 1.0 HR/game. Through Tuesday, the AL > >has 477 runs in 48 games, for a total of 9.9 runs per game, and a > >total of 1.7 HR/game. In 1987 there were 9.8 runs per game, and 2.3 > >HR/game. > > >The big question: How significant is this? Have we returned to 1987? > >Or is this just a minor abberation? > > > >Some thoughts: > > >d) I thought offense was generally down in April, rising as the > >weather got warm and pitchers got tired. This may be a bigger > >abberation from the norm than it seems. > > 1. I don't get a feeling that the weather has been an issue this year. > There doesn't seem to be a really cold spell in North America which > does makes it harder to hit (not to mention making the ball carry less) You obviously did not watch the Twins in Chicago. No cold spell? It's been snowing most of the week in Minnesota. (5 inches in Duluth last weekend) > I would still put things under the too early to tell category. Yup. -- Russ Anderson | Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect ------------------ upon my employer or anyone else. (c) 1993 EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!) ",9 "Meaning of atheism, agnosticism (was: Krillean Photography) -*---- Sci.med removed from followups. (And I do not read any of the other newsgroups.) -*---- In article <1993Apr30.170233.12510@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes: > As a self-proclaimed atheist my position is that I _believe_ that > there is no god. I don't claim to have any proof. I interpret > the agnostic position as having no beliefs about god's existence. That's fine. These words have multiple meanings. As a self-proclaimed atheist, I believe that *some* conceptions of god are inconsistent or in conflict with fact, and I lack belief in other conceptions of god merely because there is no reason for me to believe in these. I usually use the word agnostic to mean someone who believes that the existence of a god is unknown inherently unknowable. Note that this is a positive belief that is quite different from not believing in a god; I do not believe in a god, but I also do not believe the agnostic claim. Russell ",13 "Re: Wirtz is a weenie from Dean: >>In other TV news, the Penguins announced yesterday that they will have 3 >>fewer broadcast TV games, and will have 22(!) games on some sort of >>subscription / pay-per-view system. Yuck. > >This is incorrect. This year the Pens had 61 games on ""free"" TV and 6 >games on PPV. Next year they will have 62 games on free TV and 22 on >a subscription basis. > >You actually get 1 more free game than last year, and there will be no >more ""radio-only"" games. Yes, you're right. After going home and reading the paper, I got the full details. That's what I get for making a post based on WDUQ's news. I should know by now they get just about every sports related item wrong. Ralph ",10 "How 2 Get Fontname from Fonstruct ??? Anyone know how an application can retrieve the name of the font from an application given an XFontStruct *? Would XGetFontProperty work if I passed XA_FONT_NAME? anyone know details of this? Thanks in advance. Brian -- Brian Dealy |301-572-8267| It not knowing where it's at dealy@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov | | that's important,it's knowing !uunet!dftsrv!kong!dealy | | where it's not at... B.Dylan ",5 "Re: FCUS/HEALTH: The ""Big Secret"" In article <1993Apr22.114736.8864@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes: >In article <1993Apr21.181131.1751@isc-br.isc-br.com>, steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes: >> In article <1993Apr20.124746.8765@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes: >... >>> Blue Cross is the government health insurance provider. >>> >>> Oops. >> >> Oops? Blue Cross may well be the insurer for government workers in >> Massachusetts as it is for a number of state and local governments, I >> don't know. But Blue Cross is certainly NOT a government agency. >> It is a private insurer. > > Yes it is a private insurer that has to deal with government >regulations concerning how it's employees are to be covered processed, etc. >There are a mountain of forms that gov. employees have to go through. Sorry, but this is a red herring. Are you contending that the ""mountain of forms"" are processed by Blue Cross? Having had Blue Cross insurance both as a government employee and as an employee of a private corporation, I saw no difference between the two sets of forms. Moreover, the administrative costs associated with Medicare/Medicaid, the two primary forms of ""government"" insurance are considerably lower than the average for private insurance companies. (5% versus 14%-16%). If you have any evidence that Blue Cross bears a heavier burden in insuring government employees than private employees, post it. Otherwise, try to stick to factual assertions. > >> And as the original post implied, it is private insurers in the US >> whose administrative costs are significantly higher than the administrative >> costs of tax-supported health care systems in Canada and elsewhere. > > Only those that remain paper-bound and refuse to standardize. Well now, that's an interesting defense of the ""free enterprise"" system. Are you contending that it is government intervention that prevents private insurance companies from ""standardizing?"" In fact, it is true that some of the red-tape burden stems from the lack of standardization among the 1500 or so private insurers in the US, but it's a little difficult to understand how this is anything other than ""free enterprise"" at work. By the way, Barron's, the bible of Wall Street, this week admitted that administrative costs were significantly lower in Canada because ""....a single-payer system is always cheaper..."". Guess even the ""free enterprise advocates"" are beginning to see the light. > >> Try again. > > Why? My HMO provides good service at a low cost. And I don't have the >government telling my doctors what they can and can not say about medical >procedures. Sorry, but you seem to be confusing proposals with health care reform with the Bush administration's gag order on federally funded family planning clinics. There are no proposals that would control what your ""doctor...can and cannot say about medical procedures."" Try again. jsh -- Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM ""One thing about data, it sure does cut| UUCP: ...!uunet!isc-br!thor!steveh the bulls**t."" - R. Hofferbert | Ma Bell: 509 838-8826 ",18 "Re: The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Costly and Dangerous Mistake It's all my fault. I am in violation of one of my own rules: ""Avoid FollowingUp to a Barf posting."" In article <1r64pb$nkk@genesis.MCS.COM> arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: >In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: >>through private contributions on Federal land"". Your hate-mongering >>article is devoid of current and historical fact, intellectual content >>and social value. Down the toilet it goes..... >And we all know what an unbiased source the NYT is when it comes to things >concerning Israel. Those damned, spiking Israelists, right, Barfling? >Neither the Times nor the trained seals who have responded thus far seem to ""Trained Seals""? You mean the ones that flap their flippers making ""Arf, Arf! Arf, Arf!"" sounds? >recognize the statement that these ""private funds"" were all tax exmpt. In >otherwords, American taxpayers put up at least 30% of the money. And >finalyy, how does ""Federal land"" mitigate the offensiveness of this alien >monument dedicated to perpetuating pitty and the continual flow of tax money >to a foreign entity? In your own diseased mind, you now seem to believe that tax exemption is equivalent to government funding. Holy Shit, Batman! The US government is now one of the major supporters of the Catholic Church -- in violation of the rules of separation of Church and State! >That ""Federal land"" and tax money could have been used to commerate >Americans or better yet, to house homeless Americans. Quick, Bill! Commandeer all the churches and give them to the People! Or does your anti-logic only apply to the mosques belonging to what you have described as ""Ragheads"" or perhaps the synagogues of those you have characterized as ""Hymies""? -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "CGM garphics viewer wanted I'm currently looking for a viewer for Computer Graphics Metafile (CGM) pictures. Please inform me about a SHAREWARE or FREEWARE version. Thnx, Remco JORNA@KUB.NL ",1 "Re: WANTED: Info on Asymetrix/Toolbook In article <1993Apr19.065354.14002@prl.philips.nl> dewinter@prl.philips.nl (Rob de Winter) writes: >Does anyone know the phone and fax number of the Asymetrix >Corporation. I am also interested in their e-mail address. >I would also like to know what the current status of their product Toolbook >is. I received the last update 1.5 about 1.5 year ago. Are their any new >developments or is Toolbook slowly dying? >Regards, >Rob de Winter. >-- >*** Nothing beats skiing, if you want to have real fun during holidays. *** >*** Rob de Winter Philips Research, IST/IT, Building WL-1 *** >*** P.O. Box 80000, 5600 JA Eindhoven. The Netherlands *** >*** Tel: +31 40 743621 E-mail: dewinter@prl.philips.nl *** Rob, their e-mail adress is support@asymetrix.com I've heard V.2.0 is in beta. have a look at bitserv.list.toolb-l - which is a toolbook list. Regards, Olaf Winkelhake ",2 "Diamond Speedstar 24X Driver Bug? Since swapping out my generic VGA card for a Diamod Speedstar 24X, I have noticed two new problems: * if I create a windowed MS-DOS session (386 mode), when the text starts to scroll, rather than printing characters it starts to print horizontal lines that spill out to the desktop and trash the entire display. Ctrl-alt-del terminates the dos window and restores the desktop * after a short time in NCD's PC X-remote for windows, all characters displayed on the desktop are changed to be unreadable; I am unable to restore without rebooting. These are in both 256 and 16 color 800x600 drivers, large and small fonts. DOS 5, Win 3.1, emm386 and smartdrv installed. I like the speed of the card and have had no other problems. Any ideas? Thanks! -- Steve Chesney slc@catherine.cim.cdc.com Metaphase Technology Inc. 612-482-4662 (voice) 4233 North Lexington Avenue 612-482-4001 (fax) Arden Hills, MN 55126 ",2 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. Where are they? In article <1993Apr26.141114.19777@midway.uchicago.edu>, pef1@quads.uchicago.edu (it's enrico palazzo!) writes: >> = From: Graydon > >> If all of these things have been detected in space, has anyone >> looked into possible problems with the detectors? > >> That is, is there some mechanism (cosmic rays, whatever) that >> could cause the dector to _think_ it was seeing one of these >> things? > >> Graydon > > That would not explain why widely separated detectors, such as on Ulysses > and PVO and Ginga et al., would see a burst at the same time(*). In fact, be- > fore BATSE, having this widely separated ""Interplanetary Network"" was the > only sure way to locate a random burst. With only one detector, one cannot > locate a burst (except to say ""It's somewhere in the field of view.""). With > two detectors, one can use the time that the burst is seen in each detector > to narrow the location to a thin annulus on the sky. With three detectors, > one gets intersecting annuli, giving two possible locations. If one of these > locations is impossible (because, say, the Earth blocked that part of the > sky), voila, you have an error box. > > BATSE, by having 8 detectors of its own, can do its own location determination, > but only to within about 3 degrees (would someone at GSFC, like David, like > to comment on the current state of location determination?). Having inde- > pendent sightings by other detectors helps drive down the uncertainty. > > You did touch on something that you didn't mean to, though. Some believe > (in a reference that I have somewhere) that absorption-like features seen > in a fraction of GRBs can actually be caused by the detector. It would be > a mean, nasty God, though, that would have a NaI crystal act like a 10^12 Gauss > neutron star...but this is getting too far afield. > > Peter > peterf@oddjob.uchicago.edu > All of this is VERY valid and very true. But to add to this explaniation, each individual detector also has a built in fail-safe, just so the detector does not read the background radiation(i.e. cosmic rays), if I remember right, the detectors go off about 3 to 5 sigma above the background. This is so they don't catch particularly energetic cosmic rays that would normally set it off. Even with this buffer, they still have to throw out something like 1/2 of the bursts that they DO get, because of the Earth's Van Allen Belts, the South Atlantic Anomaly, the Sun, if I remember right, there is either a radar station, or a radio station in Australia, and there are a couple other sources as well. -jeremy belgarath@vax1.mankato.msus.edu ",14 "Re: Players Rushed to Majors In article <93122@hydra.gatech.EDU> re4@prism.gatech.EDU (RUSSELL EARNEST) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.145753.21557@holos0.uucp>, lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed) writes: >> In article hanson@tss.com (Hanson Loo) writes: >> >Didn't Bob Horner go straight from Arizona State Univ. >> >to the Atlanta Braves? I remember he had one great >> >month hitting dingers and then the next I heard >> >he was in Japan. >> A month? Well, he did have a short career--compared to what one might >> have expected for such a highly touted prospect--due to being injury prone, >> overweight, and having no work ethic. But he certainly did not >> suffer from being rushed to the bigs. >Sorry Len, this is exactly how he suffered from being rushed to the bigs. >Being overweight and having no work ethic, leading to being injury prone with >nothing to loose, might have been corrected in Richmond. (Did you intend a >smiley after your comment?) If I remember correctly (Which is always in doubt), Horner's signing with the Braves was contingent on starting in Atlanta. I think he could have gone back to Arizona St. for one more year if he hadn't signed. Anyhow, the Braves did try to send him to Richmond once; it lead to a week-long walkout. Methinks Horner had no work ethic before he was drafted, and minor league play wouldn't have helped. But his raw talent would have gotten him into the ML, and it did keep him there for a while, until he started falling on his wrists. Eric (too lazy to update his sig) Roush ",9 "HYPOGLYCEMIA anello@adcs00.fnal.gov (Anthony Anello) writes: A(> Can anyone tell me if a bloodcount of 40 when diagnosed as hypoglycemic is A(> dangerous, i.e. indicates a possible pancreatic problem? One Dr. says no, the A(> other (not his specialty) says the first is negligent and that another blood A(> test should be done. Also, what is a good diet (what has worked) for a hypo- A(> glycemic? TIA. A(> A(> A(> Anthony Anello A(> Fermilab A(> Batavia, Illinois Once you have your hypoglycemia CONFIRMED through the proper channels, you might consider ther following: 1) Chelated Manganese 25-50mg/day. 2) Chelated Chromium 400-600mcg/day. 3) Increase protein through foods or supplements. 4) Avoid supplements/foods high in Potassium, Calcium, Zinc. 5) Avoid Vit C supplements in excess of 100mg. 6) Avoid honey and foods high in simple sugars. 7) Enjoy breads, cereals, grains... Discuss the above with your health practitioner for compatibility with your body chemistry and safety. --Ron-- --- RoseReader 2.00 P003228: BEER - It's not just for breakfast anymore. RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363 ",13 "Clipper- business as usual? Notwithstanding all the legitimate fuss about this proposal, how much of a change is it? ATT's last product in this area (a) was priced over $1000, as I suspect 'clipper' phones will be; (b) came to the customer with the key automatically preregistered with government authorities. Thus, aside from attempting to further legitimize and solidify the fed's posture, Clipper seems to be ""more of the same"", rather than a new direction. Yes, technology will eventually drive the cost down and thereby promote more widespread use- but at present, the man on the street is not going to purchase a $1000 crypto telephone, especially when the guy on the other end probably doesn't have one anyway. Am I missing something? The real question is what the gov will do in a year or two when air- tight voice privacy on a phone line is as close as your nearest pc. That has got to a problematic scenario for them, even if the extent of usage never surpasses the 'underground' stature of PGP. -- Ray Berry kb7ht ray@ole.cdac.com rjberry@eskimo.com 73407.3152@compuserve.com ",11 "Re: DID HE REALLY RISE? Frank, I got your mailing on early historical references to Christianity. I'd like to respond, but I lost your address. Please mail me. -Scott Oser ",15 "Double sonic booms. Every time you read about a shuttle landing they mention the double sonic booms. Having taken various relevant classes, I have several ideas of where they come from, but none of them are very convincing. Exactly what causes them? Are they a one time pheneomenon, or a constant one like the supersonic shockwave that is constantly produced by a plane, but you hear only when it goes over you? --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- | Carlos G. Niederstrasser | Only two things are infinite, | | Princeton Planetary Society | the universe and human | | | stupidity, and I'm not sure | | | about the former. - Einstein | | carlosn@phoenix.princeton.edu |---------------------------------| | space@phoenix.princeton.edu | Ad Astra per Ardua Nostra | --------------------------------------------------------------------- ",14 "Re: TV Coverage - NHL to blame! In article <1993Apr23.164919.43442@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sjg3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STEVEN JAY GIBBLE) writes: ... > Mario is the Michael Jordan of hockey. All that fucker has to do is fall > on the ice and the closet guy to him gets at least 2. Last night in the > 3rd game between NJ and Pitt, he was being pushed while skating across the > front of the goal while trying to get a shot off. The guy on him was > doing a good job, so he got off a weak shot, but then he decided to fall > to the ice. Then the fucking ref(Van Helloamend?) called the guy for > holding. They replayed the play, and my roomate(who is clueless about > hockey) wanted to know what the NJ guy did to get a call, because it was so fucking obvious the NJ player > had both hands on his stick, and no, he did not trip him. It is simple, > Mario gets touched, he falls to the ice, automatic 2. But the thing that > really pissed me off is, Pitt scored the 3rd or 4th goal, I don't remember, > on the resulting PP and > eventually won 4-3. His diving/calls makes a HUGE difference in the > outcome of a game. ... > All agreeing or disagreeing replies are welcomed. > > Steve We must have been watching two different games. The Devil had one hand on Mario's elbow and pulling the elbow caused Mario to fall so the call was appropriate. Using clueless people to substantiate your claims doesn't give me a lot of confidence in your call either. Next time consider getting a second opinion from a clueful observer. Or maybe all those available disagreed. Joseph Stiehm ",10 "Virtues of Purity, Modesty and innocence Heres a nice story to help explain the virtues of purity, innocence and modesty, and their importance. The Most Beautiful Virtues This story is an excerpt taken from The Basket of Flowers by Johann Christoph von Schmid In a certain little market town, over a hundred years ago, there lived an upright and intelligent man named Jacob Rede. He was married to a most virtuous young woman and they lived happily in a humble home which was in the midst of a large, beautiful val- ley. After living many, happy years together, Jacob's wife died, leaving him alone with only one friend...his daughter Mary. Even as a child Mary was uncommonly pretty; but as she grew in years, her piety, her innocence, her modesty and her unfeigned kindne ss towards all she came in contact with, gave to her beauty a rare and peculiar charm. Her face was lighted up with a look of such indescribable goodness, that it seemed almost as though one looked upon an angel. Mary's greatest delight was the beautiful garden and her favour- ite flowers were the violet, the lily and the rose. Jacob loved to point to them as emblems of the virtues most becoming to her gender. When she once, early in March brought the first violet to him and joyfully called upon him to admire it, he said: Let the modest violet, my dear Mary, be to you an image of humil- ity and of the benevolence that does good in secret. It clothes itself in the tender colours of modesty; it prefers to bloom in retired grots; it fills the air with its fragrance while remain- ing hidden beneath the leaves. May you also, my dear Mary, be like the retiring violet, avoiding vain display, not seeking to attract the public eye, but preferring ever to do good in quietude and peace. One morning when the roses and lilies were in full bloom and the garden appeared in its richest array, Jacob said to his daughter, as he pointed out a beautiful lily, which was beaming in the morning sun: Let the lily my dear child, be to you the emblem of purity. Look how beautiful, how pure and fair it is! The whi- test linen is as nothing compared with the purity of its petals: they are like the snow. Happy the maiden whose heart is as pure and as free from stain. But the purest of all colours is also the hardest -5- to preserve pure. Easily is the petal of the lily soiled; touch it but carelessly or roughly and a stain is left behind. In the same way, a word or a thought may stain the purity of innocence! Then pointing to a rose he said: Let the rose my dear Mary, be to you an emblem of modesty. More beautiful than the colour of the rose is the blush that rises to the cheek of a modest girl. It is a sign that she is still pure of heart and innocent in thought. Happy is the maiden whom the suggestion of a thought that is indelicate, will cause to blush, as she is thus put on her guard against the approach of danger. The cheeks which readily blush will remain for a long time with their roseate hue, while those which fail to blush at the least indelicacy of thought will soon become pale and wan, and go before their time to the grave."" Among the many fruit trees that adorned the garden there was one that was prized above all the others. It was an apple tree, not much larger than a rose bush, and stood by itself in the middle of the garden. Mary's father had planted it the day that she was born and every year it bore a number of beautiful apples. Once it blossomed earlier than usual and with unusual luxuriance. The tree was one mass of blossom. Mary was so delighted with it that she went every morning as soon as she was dressed to look at it. Once, when it was in full bloom, she called to her father and said: Look father, how beautiful! Was there ever such a lovely mingling of red and white? The whole tree looks like one huge bunch of flowers! The next morning she hastened into the garden to feast her eyes once more upon the tree. But what was her grief to see that the frost had nipped it and destroyed all its flowers. They were all become brown and yellow and when the sun came forth in its strength they withered and fell to the ground. Mary wept bitter tears at the sight. Then said the father: Thus, does sinful pleasure destroy the bloom of youth. Oh my child, never cease to remember how dreadful it is to be seduced from the path of right! Behold in the example of the apple tree an image of what would happen if you were to wander from the way - if the hopes your conduct hitherto has raised in my heart should vanish, not merely for a day or year, but for life. Ah, then how much more bitter would be the tears which I would shed over your lapse from virtue than those which now course down your cheeks! Life would have no joys for me: with tears in my eyes I should -6- go down sorrowfully to my grave. As he spoke, the tears stood in his eyes; Mary was deeply moved, and the words he uttered made so profound an impression upon her mind that she never forgot them. Under the eyes of a father so loving and wise, and amid the flowers of her garden, Mary grew daily in stature and intelli- gence - blooming as a rose, pure as a lily and retiring as a violet, and as full of promise as a tree laden with blossom. Happy was the old man at all times to behold how plenteously the fruits of his garden rewarded his diligent toil; but with how much more happiness and content did he mark the gracious effect produced upon the heart and mind of his beloved daughter by his pious teaching and example. Jacob plucked several roses and lilies, tied them together in a bunch and gave them to Mary with the words: The lily and the rose, sister flowers as they are, belong the one to the other; both incomparable in their beauty, they are ren- dered still more lovely by being together. In the same way my dear child are innocence and modesty twin sisters of virtue and cannot be separated The greatest and most powerful guardian of purity is the thought of the presence of God -- Internet: simon@giaeb.cc.monash.edu.au Viva Cristo Rey !! Long Live Christ the King. ",15 "Re: Standard and Enhanced question ak333@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Martin Linsenbigler) writes: >Why is Win 3.1 sometimes so finicky? >I have a new DELL 486DX2/66mhz 8 megs RAM. >Windows was working just great. I had a Bus mouse and mother board problem. >DELL replaced the mouse, gave me a newer mouse driver for windows >and replaced the motherboard. Just prior to this problem windows would >]only load up every other time. I would get the LOGO and either it would >go on into windows or LOCK UP. This was very consistent EVERY OTHER TIME. >ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS Sounds like a memory conflict problem, which can cause truly weird symptoms like these. Call Dell tech support (or better, post to them on CSERVE if you have an account) and get the memory range(s) used by video RAM on your machine. The block windows from using those ranges with an EMMEXCLUDE= statement in the 386Enh section of SYSTEM.INI. You probably should include a statement excluding the same range from EMM386 or whatever memory manager you use in CONFIG.SYS. Dell ""installs"" Windows on the machines they ship, but the installation doesn't consist of much more than copying the files to a hard disk. You still have to do the work. And the fact that you have the problem in Enhanced mode but not standard strongly suggests a high memory conflict. ",2 "CDROM Audio cable... I am looking for a CDROM audio cable to connect my Toshiba 3401B (L/R audio) to the Pro Audio Spectrum 16 sound card. Thanks in advance for any pointers... -Steve ___ _____ ____ _ _ ____ _ __ Steve La / ___) (_ _) | ___) | || | | ___) | | / \ Network Manager \__ \ | | | _)_ | || | | _)_ | |__ | || | stevela@csulb.edu (____/ |_| |____) \__/ |____) |____) |_||_| (310) 985-4750 CALSTATE UNIVERSITY LONG BEACH, 1250 Bellflower Blvd. Long Beach, CA 90840 ",3 "Re: Soundblaster IRQ and Port settings In article pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes: >In article <3130@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew >Klossner) wrote: >> >> [] >> >> ""These LPT1, COM1, disk controller are call devices. There are >> devices that requires exclusive interrupt ownership, eg. disk >> controller (I6) and keyboard (I1). There are also devices that >> does not require exclusive ownership, ie. it will share an >> interrupt with another device, eg. LPT1"" >> >> No. In a standard ISA bus, the one that almost all non-laptop PCs use, >> two separate interface cards cannot share an interrupt. This is due to >> a screwup in the bus design. For example, if your Soundblaster wants >> to drive interrupt number 7, then it must hold a certain bus wire to 0 >> or 1 at all times, depending on whether or not it wants an interrupt. >> This precludes letting another card assert interrupt number 7. >> >> When two or more devices in an ISA bus PC share an interrupt, it's >> because they're implemented by a single card. > >Interesting. Would you care to explain to me then, how my SoundBlaster >Pro card and my printer card are sharing IRQ 7 successfully? I assure >you that they are both set to IRQ 7 and that I have no problem. My >computer is a DTK 286-12 IBM clone. Simple. First, Andrew is correct, although I can see where there might be some confusion. It is indeed possible to have two cards *configured* to use the same interrupt. They can not *share* the interrupt in the sense that it is not possible to have both cards active at the same time. Here is an example. For some time, I was short of ""free interrupts."" I had a tape controller (not a ""floppy tape"") that needed one of IRQ0-IRQ7. (It's an *old* tape drive.) My solution was to use IRQ3 (also used for COM2, where my modem is). I did this because I reasoned I would never be using the modem and the tape simultaneously. When kermit runs, it installs its own interrupt handler for IRQ3 and uses the serial port. If the tape drive were to generate an interrupt, kermit would not have a clue what to do with/for the tape controller. (And since the tape controller would not be serviced, it would most likely ""hang."") Likewise, when the tape backup software runs, it installs an interrupt handler for IRQ3. That handler won't do anything for the serial port. Under DOS, printing is NOT interrupt-driven. Instead, the BIOS polls the status of the parallel port to determine when another byte may be sent. That's why you can have your sound card and LPT1 both configured to use IRQ7. Try that on NT and see how far you'll get. :-) -- Kenneth R. Ballou VOICE: (617) 494-0990 Oberon Software, Inc. FAX: (617) 494-0414 One Memorial Drive, Cambridge, MA 02142 Internet: ballou@oberon.com The views and opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ",3 "Re: Command Loss Timer (Re: Galileo Update - 04/22/93) prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: >Galileo's HGA is stuck. >The HGA was left closed, because galileo had a venus flyby. >If the HGA were pointed att he sun, near venus, it would >cook the foci elements. >question: WHy couldn't Galileo's course manuevers have been >designed such that the HGA did not ever do a sun point.? The HGA isn't all that reflective in the wavelengths that might ""cook the focal elements"", nor is its figure good on those scales--the problem is that the antenna _itself_ could not be exposed to Venus-level sunlight, lest like Icarus' wings it melt. (I think it was glues and such, as well as electronics, that they were worried about.) Thus it had to remain furled and the axis _always_ pointed near the sun, so that the small sunshade at the tip of the antenna mast would shadow the folded HGA. (A larger sunshade beneath the antenna shielded the spacecraft bus.) --Mark Looper ""Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"" ",14 "Re: Assurance of Hell In article REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes: > >I dreamed that the great judgment morning had dawned, > and the trumpet had blown. >I dreamed that the sinners had gathered for judgment > before the white throne. >Oh what weeping and wailing as the lost were told of their fate. >They cried for the rock and the mountains. >They prayed, but their prayers were too late. >The soul that had put off salvation, >""Not tonight I'll get saved by and by. > No time now to think of ....... religion,"" >Alas, he had found time to die. >And I saw a Great White Throne. If I believed in the God of the bible I would be very fearful of making this statement. Doesn't it say those who judge will be judged by the same measure? >Now, some have protest by saying that the fear of hell is not good for >motivation, yet Jesus thought it was. Paul thought it was. Paul said, >""Knowing therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men."" A God who must motivate through fear is not a God worthy of worship. If the God Jesus spoke of did indeed exist he would not need hell to convince people to worship him. >Today, too much of our evangelism is nothing but soft soap and some of >it is nothing but evangelical salesmanship. We don't tell people anymore, that >there's such a thing as sin or that there's such a place as hell. It was the myth of hell that made me finally realize that the whole thing was untrue. If it hadn't been for hell I would still be a believer today. The myth of hell made me realize that if there was a God that he was not the all knowing and all good God he claimed to be. Why should I take such a being at his word, even if there was evidence for his existance? -- ------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! . \ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . . \ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . . \/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . . ",15 "Re: Name of MD's eyepiece? In article clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke) writes: >|> |It's not an eyepiece. It is called a head mirror. All doctors never > >A speculum? The speculum is the little cone that fits on the end of the otoscope. There are also vaginal specula that females and gynecologists are all too familiar with. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Binyamin Netanyahu on CNN tonight. In article eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: >cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes: > > >>In a previous article, friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) says: > >>> >>>For all those interested, I would like to inform all that Binyamin Netanyahu >>>(leader of the Israeli Likud party) will be interviewed on CNN tonight on >>>Larry King Live. > > >>didn't this guy go crying on the ""zionist"" tv confessing >>that he committed adultary, and was cheating on his wife.. > >>a typical jew leader, huh? > >Yes. He is. Actually, the typical Muslim/Arab leader hides the fact that he >commited adultery by choosing a camel over his husband (or a small male child, >whichever is more readily availible). > Arab leaders don't have to cheat, they are actually allowed to have four wives. Are you implying above that Arab leaders are gays? Aren't there Jewish gays too? Nabil > ",17 "Re: National Sales Tax, The Movie atboyken@iastate.edu (Aaron T Boyken) writes: > >Here's a question: what if, instead of a true VAT, the federal >government imposed a sales tax of say 2-3%? The tax would only >be paid on retail sales (thus not building up at all levels of >production costs that are just passed on to consumers anyway), >and would only go to reducing the deficit. (I know that this >would never happen, but it seems a lot more palettable than >a VAT). Canada's GST is collected as a sales tax and is considered a VAT. Funnily, the previous hidden wholesale tax that it replaces was never referred to as a tax (or, people never paid mind to it, thus the uproar when it was brought up front as the GST --- one party has actually campaigned on hiding the tax again). The stated intent of the Tories was to use the GST to write down our deficit. Unfortunately, their legislation didn't include any mechanism for disbursing the collected funds in such a manner and the money is now sitting in escrow. I don't know what is involved in releasing the funds, but one dilemna is that the Tories are not fiscal conservatives themselves though while taxing and spending, they've made moves to apply the breaks to a runaway locomotive by the end of this time --- the end of their second term (~9 years). While they do have chances of getting a third term, catching up in the polls to their more moderate/slightly leftish pro-business rivals, the Liberals (as in Euro/UK), the Tories' heir-apparent for the leaders' mantle has been termed a clone of Hillary Clinton ... gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",18 "Re: Level 5? WHile we are on the subject of the shuttle software. what ever happened to the hypothesis that the shuttle flight software was a major factor in the loss of 51-L. to wit, that during the wind shear event, the Flight control software indicated a series of very violent engine movements that shocked and set upa harmonic resonance leading to an overstress of the struts. pat ",14 "SOURCE to Mactinosh PGP 2.2 in C available *** SOURCE code to Macintosh PGP 2.2 now available via anonymous FTP *** FTP netcom.com CD pub/grady MGET MacPGP2.2src.sea.hqx MGET MacPGP2.2srcSIGNATURE Convert to a Compact Pro self-extracting archive with BinHex 4.0. If appropriate, check the digital signature of the .hqx file with your copy of PGP. (Non-Macintosh users wishing to check the digital signature please note that 'CR' denotes the end-of-line on a Macintosh, not 'LF' or 'CRLF'.) For the purposes of the ITAR act, this 'unclassified technical documentation' is hereby released into the public domain. (However no representation is made as to copyright or other commercial rights that may exist in this package.) Full source code, Symantec THINK C 5.0.4 projects and full user documentation is included for both 68020 and 68000 versions of Pretty Good Privacy, a strong public key encryption and digital signature application using the RSA algorithm patented in the United States and the IDEA cipher patented in Switzerland. No executables are included. Executables are available via anonymous FTP from: leif.thep.lu.se (Sweden) night.nig.ac.jp (Japan) van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (Canada) soda.berkeley.edu (P.R. of Berkeley) src.doc.ic.ac.uk (United Kingdom) ghost.dsi.unimi.it (Italy) plaza.aarnet.edu.au (Australia) nic.funet.fi (Finland) Other's public keys are available from anonymous server sites: (Send message subject ""help"" for more information.) Internet sites: pgp-public-keys@junkbox.cc.iastate.edu Michael Graff explorer@iastate.edu FTP: tbird.cc.iastate.edu:/usr/explorer/public-keys.pgp pgp-public-keys@toxicwaste.mit.edu Derek Atkins warlord@MIT.EDU FTP: toxicwaste.mit.edu:/pub/keys/public-keys.pgp pgp-public-keys@phil.utmb.edu John Perry perry@phil.utmb.edu FTP: phil.utmb.edu:/pub/pgp/public-keys.pgp pgp-public-keys@demon.co.uk Mark Turner mark@demon.co.uk FTP: ftp.demon.co.uk:/pub/pgp/pubring.pgp UUCP site: pgp-public-keys@jpunix.com John Perry perry@jpunix.com The executable application built from these sources has NOT been licensed by RSA Data Security, Inc. nor has the RSA public key algorithm or the IDEA block cipher algorithm been approved by the National Security Agency. This unclassified technical documentation is made available for EDUCATIONAL USE ONLY; possession, distribution, or use of an executable binary built from this source may be a civil or criminal offense. Suggested improvements, bugs, or comments should be directly posted to alt.security.pgp or to the principal developers listed among the source documents. General questions and comments about public key cryptography or the IDEA cipher may be posted to alt.security.pgp or to the sci.crypt Usenet groups. -- grady@netcom.com 2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F ",11 "Re: Forcing a window manager to accept specific coordinates for a window In article , bading@cs.tu-berlin.de (Tobias 'Doping' Bading) writes: |> |> try this after XCreateWindow: |> ----------------------------- |> |> #include |> |> Display display; |> Window window; |> |> { |> XSizeHints *xsizehints = XAllocSizeHints (); |> xsizehints->flags = USPosition | USSize; /* or = PPosition | PSize */ |> xsizehints->x = 42; |> xsizehints->y = 42; |> xsizehints->width = 100; |> xsizehints->height = 100; |> XSetWMNormalHints (display, window, xsizehints); |> XFree (xsizehints); |> } |> |> These hints tell the window manager that the position and size of the window |> are specified by the users and that the window manager should accept these |> values. If you use xsizehints->flags = PPosition | PSize, this tells the window |> manager that the values are prefered values of the program, not the user. |> I don't know a window manager that doesn't place the window like you prefer if |> you specify the position and size like above. You are right but PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. It makes my brain hurt. USPosition and USSize should ONLY be set if the USER specified the position and size. You say: ""Tom, don't blow a gasket, what's the harm?"" Some window managers do very different things (besides positioning the window) when they see USPosition rather than PPosition. -- Tom LaStrange toml@boulder.ParcPlace.COM ",5 "Electrical Spacecraft via Magnetic field of earth? Okay, the earth has a magnetic field (unless someone missed something?) Okay if you put a object in the earth magnetic field, it produces electricty.. Now the question. Can you use electricity to power a space/low earth orbit vehicle? and i fyou can, can you use the magnetic field of the earth to power it?? Can the idea of a ""dragless"" satellite be used in part to create the electrical field? After all the dragless satellite is (I might be wrong), a suspended between to pilons, the the pilons compensate for drag.. I think I know what I want to say, just not sure how to say it.. A dragless satellite sounds interestingly enough liek a generator. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked Sorry for spelling, have not brought windows 3.1 online with my modem and comm program. YET!! almos tthere.. ",14 "Re: NHL Team Captains In article <13904.664.uupcb@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> steven.kipling@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Steven Kipling) writes: > -=> Quoting Cire Y. Trehguad to All <=- >CYT> : Michael Collingridge writes: > : >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded, > : >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other > : >team captain trivia would be appreciated. Kelly Kisio was the captain of the Rangers when he left for San Jose. -- Ali. -- Ali ""Procrastination"" Lemer || ""But not a real green || ""Conjunction Junction, Columbia University (NYC) || dress, that's cruel."" || What's your function?"" phoenix@ctr.columbia.edu || -- Barenaked Ladies || -- Schoolhouse Rock ***************** BE KIND TO ANIMALS...HUG A HOCKEY PLAYER! ******************* ",10 "Quick Survey on Economic Views I'd like to conduct a small survey relating to Americans' views on economics and on Japan. The survey consists of just two questions. I ask that only Americans respond; I've posted it worldwide, however, because I think others will be interested in the results. I'll tabulate the results and post them with some commentary. Please respond by email to ""borden@m5.harvard.edu"". Here are the questions: 1) As an American, would you prefer that in a given year, a) our economy grows by one percent, and Japan's economy also grows by one percent, or b) our economy grows by two percent while Japan's economy grows by three percent? 2) On what newsgroup did you read this survey? Thank you for your participation. - Dave Borden borden@m5.harvard.edu ",18 "Re: Jose Canseco's Swing - 1992 vs. 1986. In article ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Built Like Villanueva Huckabay) writes: >Was going over some videos last night..... And you wrote an *excellent* report about it. >1. He's bulked up too much. Period. He needs to LOSE about 20 pounds, > not gain more bulk. > >2. His bat speed has absolutely VANISHED. Conservatively, I'd say he's > lost 4%-7% of his bat speed, and that's a HUGE amount of speed. > >3. That open stance is KILLING him. Note that he acts sort of like > Brian Downing - way open to start, then closes up as ball is > released. Downing could do this without significant head movement - > Canseco can't. Also, note that Canseco doesn't always close his > stance the same way - sometimes, his hips are open, sometimes, > they're fully closed. Without a good starting point, it's hard > to make adjustments in your swing. I understand (from an unreliable source) that Canseco was considered expendable by the A's when he refused to accept any coaching about his batting stance. The A's brain trust came to believe that his back problems were exacerbated, if not caused, by having a wide open stance, closing it quickly and then swinging with a lot of torque (that's a paraphrase of what I remember). In any event, Canseco took the road that he and he alone would decide his stance, and the A's began to believe that he would either reinjure himself or begin to lose his ability to hit for both average and power. >Aside from salting away a large sum of a cash that I could never touch, >so that I'd never have to work again, I'd restructure my entire swing. Apparently, you sound like LaRussa. >Second, drop 20 pounds. Cut out the weight work. The A's also objected about this. >If Canseco's open stance and resulting bad habits are a result of his back >problems, he'll be out of baseball in three years. If not, he could >still hit 600+ HR. Again, I'm just repeating something I heard. But possibly the cause and effect is the reverse of that. -- The Beastmaster -- Mark Singer mss@netcom.com ",9 "Re: Israel: An Apartheid state. I think there are some generally accepted criteria according to which one can evaluate whether certain policies or practices constitute racial discrimination. These criteria are to be found for example in the 1. International Convention for Abolition of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ratified by most countries) 2. The International Covenant of Political and Civil Rights 3. The Human Rights Charter 4. The European Convention of Human Rights If one reads carefully how racial discrimination is defined in these legally binding instruments, and does not resort to sophistry, it is obvious that the State of Israel is guilty of racial discrimination. The people suffering the most extreme form of racial discriminatnion by the Zionist regime are the Palestinian refugees, some of whom live under Israeli military control and others who live in the diaspora. They are not entitled to return to their homeland for the sole reason that they are not Jews. International law does not include any provisions which permits such denial of rights, under any circumstance. Israel's actions of denial are totally illegal and immoral. By allowing the return of the refugees and permitting them to settle in Tel in any area of the State of Israel, the State would finally gain its legitimaty under international law and could be justified in asking to be recognized. It would facilitate the peaceful integration of Israel into the Middle-east and constitute the best guarantee for permanent Jewish presence - in the area. Any attempt to create a separation, formal and human, between the Israeli Jewish and Palestinian Arab communities, is fraught with genociadal implications. I hope that U.S. Jews, who sincerely wish that peace prevail in Israel/Palestine, will finally realize this fact. Elias Davidsson PS: Please read carefully the first post in this topic, where the facts of Zionist racial discrimination are described. ",17 "Re: FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY In article <1993Apr22.195256.6376@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: > Free Energy Inventions are devices which can tap a > seemingly UNLIMITED supply of energy from the universe, with- > OUT burning any kind of fuel, making them the PERFECT > SOLUTION to the world-wide energy crisis and its associated > pollution, degradation, and depletion of the environment. Give me a call when you build a working model. Then we'll talk stock options. --- Private note to Jennifer Fakult. ""This post may contain one or more of the following: sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume all of the above. The owners of this account do not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability to recognize any of the above. Read at your own risk, Jennifer."" ",0 "877 mb 3.5"" SCSI disk FOR SALE I have a new (opened box, tested drive) Toshiba MK438FB disk for sale. 3.5"" 877 mb formatted 12 ms SCSI-2 3 year warranty I thought this would work, but I need a larger drive for my system. Asking $900.00. This is a great opportunity. Let me hear from you. ",6 "Re: Zionism is Racism In <1993Apr21.104330.16704@ifi.uio.no>, michaelp@ifi.uio.no (Michael Schalom Preminger) wrote: # # In article <20APR93.23565659.0109@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, B8HA000 writes: # > In Re:Syria's Expansion, the author writes that the UN thought # > Zionism was Racism and that they were wrong. They were correct # > the first time, Zionism is Racism and thankfully, the McGill Daily # > (the student newspaper at McGill) was proud enough to print an article # > saying so. If you want a copy, send me mail. # > # Was the article about zionism? or about something else. The majority # of people I heard emitting this ignorant statement, do not really # know what zionism is. They have just associated it with what they think # they know about the political situation in the middle east. # # So Steve: Lets here, what IS zionism? Assuming that you mean 'hear', you weren't 'listening': he just told you, ""Zionism is Racism."" This is a tautological statement. --- D. C. Sessions Speaking for myself --- --- Note new network address: dcs@witsend.tnet.com --- --- Author (and everything else!) of TMail (DOS mail/news shell) --- ",17 "Bike Vacation in the States?? This Summer I'm going to use my vacation drivin (riding) through the States. And I do Have some questions that I would like to post here:: Since I'm from Norway I was wondering How much does it cost to rent a Bike in the States? (I'm Probarly going to the San Fransisco/San Jose area the ride around (I'think)) As you might have noticed I still haven't made any plans so if you know about places I ought to visit Please e-mail me... Khool (Wanna be a DoD (Hangarond) db10@bih.no (Karstein Holen) Since I hurt my pendulum My life is all erratic. My parrot, who was cordinal, Is now transmitting static. The carpet died, a palm collapsed The cat keeps doing poo. The only thing that keeps me sane Is talking to my shoe. -- My Shoe. ",8 "Re: White House Public Encryption Management Fact Sheet In article clipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement) writes: >PROCUREMENT AND USE OF ENCRYPTION DEVICES [ ... ] >The Attorney General will procure and utilize encryption devices to >the extent needed to preserve the government's ability to conduct >lawful electronic surveillance and to fulfill the need for secure >law enforcement communications. Further, the Attorney General >shall utilize funds from the Department of Justice Asset Forfeiture >Super Surplus Fund to effect this purchase. Talk about adding insult to injury ... I, for one, believe that the use of civil forfeiture should be abolished by a decent administration, not continued. Instead, it looks like that ill-gotten gain will be used to help pay for wiretap equipment. -- - <> - Carl Ellison cme@sw.stratus.com - Stratus Computer Inc. M3-2-BKW TEL: (508)460-2783 - 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298 FAX: (508)624-7488 ",11 "Re: SVGA Monitors and Centris (the real story) In article , am2o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alexander Samuel McDiarmid) writes: |> having been discusse essentially adnausium the answer is yes. |> at |> least for the 600x400 configuration. you can get an adaptor called |> Mac |> VGA -Q from James engineering (510) 525 7350 and this will let you |> display 600x400 and 800x600 if the monitor is capable. I think the |> 800x600 requires 56Khz horizontal sync. I use this on my sony 1604. |> |> (gives a slightly wider screen than the 832x624 adaptor. I am using a NEC 4FG with my Centris 610. The cable adapter was provided by NEC (you have to call to get this free adapter). I am also sharing it with my 486 (using a switch box and extra cables). My questions: How do you tell if it is 600x400 or 800x600 that was displayed? Or how do you change the mode(resolution)? Is there SW for this or something I have to do with the HW? I am assuming I am getting 800x600 since I have 1M VRAM and the 4FG can display 1028x768(?) with my 486. -- Nicholas Pang nyp00@cd.amdahl.com Amdahl Corporation nyp00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com ",4 "US Robotics 14.4 modem Reply to haljordan@delphi.com or call 708 674-2603: U.S. Robotics 16.8 Dual standard, V.32 bis, 14.4k baud, 16.8 hst. Price: $449. ",6 "Seeking user experience with X-based test tools Does anyone have any experience using XRunner, CAPBAK/X, or PreVueX as an automated test tool for X? Please email me directly with opinions (both positive and negative). Ann Freeman Siemens Industrial Automation, Inc. Johnson City, TN aff209%tijc02@uunet.uu.net ",5 "Re: nuclear waste In <1993Apr2.150038.2521@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: >In article <1993Apr1.204657.29451@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >>>This system would produce enough energy to drive the accelerator, >>>perhaps with some left over. A very high power (100's of MW CW or >>>quasi CW), very sharp proton beam would be required, but this appears >>>achievable using a linear accelerator. The biggest question mark >>>would be the lead target chemistry and the on-line processing of all >>>the elements being incinerated. >> >>Paul, quite frankly I'll believe that this is really going to work on >>the typical trash one needs to process when I see them put a couple >>tons in one end and get (relatively) clean material out the other end, >>plus be able to run it off its own residual power. Sounds almost like >>perpetual motion, doesn't it? >Fred, the honest thing to do would be to admit your criticism on >scientific grounds was invalid, rather than pretend you were actually >talking about engineering feasibility. Given you postings, I can't >say I am surprised, though. Well, pardon me for trying to continue the discussion rather than just tugging my forelock in dismay at having not considered actually trying to recover the energy from this process (which is at least trying to go the 'right' way on the energy curve). Now, where *did* I put those sackcloth and ashes? [I was not and am not 'pretending' anything; I am *so* pleased you are not surprised, though.] >No, it is nothing like perpetual motion. Note that I didn't say it was perpetual motion, or even that it sounded like perpetual motion; the phrase was ""sounds almost like perpetual motion"", which I, at least, consider a somewhat different propposition than the one you elect to criticize. Perhaps I should beg your pardon for being *too* precise in my use of language? >The physics is well >understood; the energy comes from fission of actinides in subcritical >assemblies. Folks have talked about spallation reactors since the >1950s. Pulsed spallation neutron sources are in use today as research >tools. Accelerator design has been improving, particularly with >superconducting accelerating cavities, which helps feasibility. Los >Alamos has expertise in high current accelerators (LAMPF), so I >believe they know what they are talking about. I will believe that this process comes even close to approaching technological and economic feasibility (given the mixed nature of the trash that will have to be run through it as opposed to the costs of separating things first and having a different 'run' for each actinide) when I see them dump a few tons in one end and pull (relatively) clean material out the other. Once the costs, technological risks, etc., are taken into account I still class this one with the idea of throwing waste into the sun. Sure, it's possible and the physics are well understood, but is it really a reasonable approach? And I still wonder at what sort of 'burning' rate you could get with something like this, as opposed to what kind of energy you would really recover as opposed to what it would cost to build and power with and without the energy recovery. Are we talking ounces, pounds, or tons (grams, kilograms, or metric tons, for you SI fans) of material and are we talking days, weeks, months, or years (days, weeks, months or years, for you SI fans -- hmmm, still using a non-decimated time scale, I see ;-))? >The real reason why accelerator breeders or incinerators are not being >built is that there isn't any reason to do so. Natural uranium is >still too cheap, and geological disposal of actinides looks >technically reasonable. -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",14 "Re: The arrogance of Christians In article caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes: >vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.) writes: >>In article caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes: >> > ... >> > >> >Are all truths also absolutes? >> >Is all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)? >> > >> >If the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can >> >explain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and >> >which truths are absolutes. >> >> The answer to both questions is yes. > >Perhaps we have different definitions of absolute then. To me, >an absolute is something that is constant across time, culture, >situations, etc. True in every instance possible. Do you agree >with this definition? I think you do: > >> Similarly, all truth is absolute. Indeed, a non-absolute truth is a >> contradiction in terms. When is something absolute? When it is always >> true. Obviously, if a ""truth"" is not always ""true"" then we have a >> contradiction in terms. Yes, I do agree with your definition. My use of the term ""always"" is rather deceptive, I admit. >A simple example: > >In the New Testament (sorry I don't have a Bible at work, and can't >provide a reference), women are instructed to be silent and cover >their heads in church. Now, this is scripture. By your definition, >this is truth and therefore absolute. Hold it. I said that all of scripture is true. However, discerning exactly what Jesus, Paul and company were trying to say is not always so easy. I don't believe that Paul was trying to say that all women should behave that way. Rather, he was trying to say that under the circumstances at the time, the women he was speaking to would best avoid volubility and cover their heads. This has to do with maintaining a proper witness toward others. Remember that any number of relativistic statements can be derived from absolutes. For instance, it is absolutely right for Christians to strive for peace. However, this does not rule out trying to maintain world peace by resorting to violence on occasion. (Yes, my opinion.) >Evangelicals are clearly not taking this particular part of scripture >to be absolute truth. (And there are plenty of other examples.) >Can you reconcile this? Sure. The Bible preaches absolute truths. However, exactly what those truths are is sometimes a matter of confusion. As I said, the Bible does preach absolute truths. Sometimes those fundamental principles are crystal clear (at least to evangelicals). Sometimes they are not so clear to everyone (e.g. should baptism be by full immersion or not, etc). That is largely because sometimes, it is not explicitly spelled out whether the writers are speaking to a particular culture or to Christianity as a whole. This is where scholarship and the study of Biblical contexts comes in. >It's very difficult to see how you can claim something which is based >on your own *interpretation* is absolute. God revealed his Truths to the world, through His Word. It is utterly unavoidable, however, that some people whill come up with alternate interpretations. Practically anything can be misinterpreted, especially when it comes to matters of right and wrong. Care to deny that? -- Virgilio ""Dean"" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng'g and Applied Physics CWRU graduate student, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabee ""Bullwinkle, that man's intimidating a referee!"" | My boss is a ""Not very well. He doesn't look like one at all!"" | Jewish carpenter. ",15 "Re: WFAN In article <1993Apr16.174843.28111@cabell.vcu.edu> csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes: >On the serious side: Maybe we should have a sub for Sports Radio/TV. > >As much as people complain about one station or another, the >information you hear is a lot more in depth than what you can get on >the AP wire or USA Today. So, to benefit those who have favorite >teams outside of their vicinity, this would do wonders. People can >get on and talk about what Cataldi said about the Eagles or what >Lupica said of the Bonilla incident etc. This can be for any station >across the country. Anyone agree? I agree, although I would have no idea how to go about doing it. But you've got my vote. --I'm outta here like Vladimir --Alan =========================================================================== | ""What's this? This is ice. This is what happens to water when it gets | | too cold. This? This is Kent. This is what happens to people when | | they get too sexually frustrated."" | | -Val Kilmer, ""Real Genius"" | =========================================================================== ",9 "Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #11 In article <1993Apr2.194838.13476@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes: >In article <1993Apr2.181037.11188@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes: >>powell@interlan.interlan.com (Glen D. Powell) writes: >>The kind of corporate raiding apparently undertaken by VW is shameful. > >Agreed. However, the particular execs had been working with Iggy for >many years and had left GM Europe to go to Detroit. With their raison >-andy I was out of date. VW is stealing execs directly from Opel, independent of Lopez. Shameful. -andy ",7 "Re: Why not give $1 billion to first year-long moon residents? In article <6ZV82B2w165w@theporch.raider.net> gene@theporch.raider.net (Gene Wright) writes: Announce that a reward of $1 billion would go to the first corporation who successfully keeps at least 1 person alive on the moon for a year. And with $1B on offer, the problem of ""keeping them alive"" is highly likely to involve more than just the lunar environment! ""Oh Dear, my freighter just landed on the roof of ACME's base and they all died. How sad. Gosh, that leaves us as the oldest residents."" ""Quick Boss, the slime from YoyoDyne are back, and this time they've got a tank! Man the guns!"" One could imagine all sorts of technologies being developed in that sort of environment..... Greg. (I'm kidding, BTW, although the problem of winner-takes-all prizes is that it encourages all sorts of undesirable behaviour - witness military procurement programs. And $1b is probably far too small a reward to encourage what would be a very expensive and high risk proposition.) -- Gregory Bond Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd Melbourne Australia Knox's 386 is slick. Fox in Sox, on Knox's Box Knox's box is very quick. Plays lots of LSL. He's sick! (Apologies to John ""Iron Bar"" Mackin.) ",14 "Mountain View House for Sale Three Bedrooms, One Updated Bath Professionally Lanscaped Front Yard w/ Sprinklers Utilities in Attached One Car Garage Recently Painted Inside Convenient Commute Location Schools: Whisman Elementary, Crittenden Jr. High, Mountain View High $209,900 For more information contact: Beverly Morgan - Contempo Realty (408) 773-8236 ",6 "CPSR Statement on White House Crypto Plan ----------------------------------------------------------- April 16, 1993 Washington, DC COMPUTER PROFESSIONALS CALL FOR PUBLIC DEBATE ON NEW GOVERNMENT ENCRYPTION INITIATIVE Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR) today called for the public disclosure of technical data underlying the government's newly-announced ""Public Encryption Management"" initiative. The new cryptography scheme was announced today by the White House and the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST), which will implement the technical specifications of the plan. A NIST spokesman acknowledged that the National Security Agency (NSA), the super- secret military intelligence agency, had actually developed the encryption technology around which the new initiative is built. According to NIST, the technical specifications and the Presidential directive establishing the plan are classified. To open the initiative to public review and debate, CPSR today filed a series of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests with key agencies, including NSA, NIST, the National Security Council and the FBI for information relating to the encryption plan. The CPSR requests are in keeping with the spirit of the Computer Security Act, which Congress passed in 1987 in order to open the development of non-military computer security standards to public scrutiny and to limit NSA's role in the creation of such standards. CPSR previously has questioned the role of NSA in developing the so-called ""digital signature standard"" (DSS), a communications authentication technology that NIST proposed for government-wide use in 1991. After CPSR sued NIST in a FOIA lawsuit last year, the civilian agency disclosed for the first time that NSA had, in fact, developed that security standard. NSA is due to file papers in federal court next week justifying the classification of records concerning its creation of the DSS. David Sobel, CPSR Legal Counsel, called the administration's apparent commitment to the privacy of electronic communications, as reflected in today's official statement, ""a step in the right direction."" But he questioned the propriety of NSA's role in the process and the apparent secrecy that has thus far shielded the development process from public scrutiny. ""At a time when we are moving towards the development of a new information infrastructure, it is vital that standards designed to protect personal privacy be established openly and with full public participation. It is not appropriate for NSA -- an agency with a long tradition of secrecy and opposition to effective civilian cryptography -- to play a leading role in the development process."" CPSR is a national public-interest alliance of computer industry professionals dedicated to examining the impact of technology on society. CPSR has 21 chapters in the U.S. and maintains offices in Palo Alto, California, Cambridge, Massachusetts and Washington, DC. For additional information on CPSR, call (415) 322-3778 or e-mail . ",11 "Re: Once tapped, PLEASE RESTRICT YOUR FOLLOWUPS However valuable, this discussion does NOT belong on comp.org.acm or on comp.org.ieee. Please edit your followups to include only the appropriate newsgroups. -- Edward Reid Greensboro FL ed@titipu.resun.com or nosc!blkhole!ed (looking for programming contracts, especially Unisys A-Series) ",11 "Re: NHL team leaders in +/- In <1993Apr5.185633.17843@ists.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes: >Implicitly you are assuming that goals scored against Winnipeg with Selanne >on the ice can be blamed on him...Roger, he is a FORWARD. Winnipeg has a >lousy defensive record anyway. Let's put it another way. John Cullen's +/- >is terrible. What's your excuse for him? That his powerplay points don't >count? Neither do Selanne's... Are you comparing Cullen to Salami? I would say that that is valid. If Winnipeg is such a lousy defensive team then why the hell does Salami stand around the other team's blueline when the puck is in his own end? >>The object of the game is not to feed Selanne - it is >>to win. And feeding Selanne does not contribute in any meaningful way >>to winning. >Knowledgeable hockey observers the world over would agree that >feeding Selanne so he can score does contribute in a meaningful way to >winning. Excuse me? Are the Jets playing .500 hockey? Let me check...yes - but just barely. They have allowed more goals than they have scored. Sounds an awful lot like Salami's +/- to me. Sounds like they would be just as well off - or better - if he played the solid two-way game that our friends in Finland claim he is capable of. But if he did that he wouldn't be chal- lenging for the league lead in goals would he? The Bi-Planes might be challenging for first however... >You're worried about Teemu when you have Glenn Anderson on your team? Now let's see...you have compared Timo to Anderson and Cullen. Who's next? Mike Foligno? >>We DON'T KNOW what Selanne does best. We do know what Jet's management >>wants. And again, the object of the exercise is not to allow Selanne to >>do what he does best, it is to win hockey games. >What he does best is score...so I refer you to my comment above. Some of our Finnish friends who have watched him play claim that he can play a solid two-way game. I would have to say that this style of contribution would be more conducive to winning. Or don't you think so? >>As it is now, Selanne >>is a grandstanding goal suck. Did you see the way he parades around >>with his arms outstretched after scoring a goal? You would think the >>Messiah had returned... >Nope, didn't see it. I was too busy watching Foligno jump up and down after >_his_ goal.... I don't believe it! You did compare him to Foligno! (And I honestly hadn't read this far). It would help if you used a little discrimination in your thinking. Your contributions would be more highly valued if we could see that you weren't trying to be merely argumentative. cordially, as always, rm -- Roger Maynard maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ",10 "Re: Fractals? What good are they ? In article mdpyssc@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (Sue Cunningham) writes: > We have been using Iterated Systems compression board to compress > pathology images and are getting ratios of 40:1 to 70:1 without too > much loss in quality. It is taking about 4 mins per image to compress, > on a 25Mhz 486 but decompression is almost real time on a 386 in software > alone. How does that compare with JPEG on the same images and hardware as far as size, speed, and image quality are concerned? Despite my skeptical and sometimes nearly rabid postings criticizing Barnsley and company, I am very interested in the technique. If I weren't I probably wouldn't be so critical. :-) ab ",1 "Re: Gun Control (was Re: We're Mad as Hell at the TV News) In article manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve Manes) writes: >Frank Crary (fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU) wrote: >: That's all very well and good, but I was refering to all >: homocides, not just ones involving handguns (what is this fixation >: on death by shooting, as if it were somehow worse than death >: by stabbing?) > >What relevance are ALL homicides in this debate? What do you think gun >control advocates are saying: that if we get rid of all handguns we will >live in a homicide-free world? The relevance is that if you've got x homicides and reduce the number of gun homicides in that group, but x doesn't decrease by a significant amount, have you made an improvement, and is that improvement worth what you've paid? >The issue is guns, not baseball bats. Even a simpleton knows that >he stands a better chance of surviving an attack with a baseball bat... >certainly of outrunning a bat-wielding assailant. If a baseball bat is a tenth as likely to kill a victim as a gun, is that any comfort to that tenth? >As for knives, see my earlier post. I'd much rather face a knife >than a gun, thanks. I've faced a knife. And I was damn annoyed I didn't *have* a gun. All the statistics in the world didn't change the fact that *he* was interested in cutting *me*. >Fortunately, the best defense against a knife isn't >another knife. Anyone trained in unarmed self-defense won't have >much of a problem disarming a knife assailant untrained in knife >assault (which probably means 99.9% of knife assailants). ""Anyone trained in self-defense."" Unarmed self-defense isn't for everyone. What's more, it requires substantially more training to be safe and effective than a firearm. It requires physical proximity and thus a greater threat to the victim, which is a primary problem with stun guns. You have to actually touch your assailant. Unless you're *very* good, a large, stronger assailant can simply ignore your blows long enough to incapacitate you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu ",16 "Re: Am I going to Hell? In article tbrent@ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent) writes: >I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but >definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion >about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the >effect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus >as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew, >buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not >believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be >lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only >god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions. Dear Tim: You say that you were a ""catholic,"" but if you do not believe in the Christian God (I suppose that means the God of the Bible) and publicly state this, you are in all probability not a Roman Catholic. ""Public heretics, even those who err in good faith (material heretics), do not belong to the body of the Church"" (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 1960, Ludwig Ott, p. 311). All is not lost, however, as you still might belong spiritually to the Church by your desire to belong to it. As you said, only God can judge the condition of a man's soul. About judgment, on the other hand, St. Paul 1 Cor 5:12) urges Christians to judge their fellow Christians. Following the Apostle's teaching, I judge that you should reconsider returning to the Christian fold and embrace the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He is the God who lives. Concerning what you were told about non-believers when you were a catholic, that is true. As I have posted before, Vatican II (Lumen Gentium, II, n. 16) teaches: ""Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Chruch, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation."" Responding to your solicitation for opinions on the thinking processes of God, the best I can do is refer you to Scripture. Scripture is one of the best sources for learning what can be known about God. Stick with the best. -- boundary, the catechist no teneis que pensar que yo haya venido a traer la paz a la tierra; no he venido a traer la paz, sino la guerra (Mateo 10:34, tr. esp. Vulgata Latina) ",15 "Re: Age of Consent == Child Molestation In article <115993@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes: > Clayton Cramer, did you read this carefully? : > > In article roy@panix.com (Roy Radow) writes: > > >it should not be assumed that we [NAMBLA] agree with the specific > >agendas of each and every other participating group, nor > >should it be assumed that each and every other group > >supports our specific goals and ideals. Yeah, just like you shouldn't assume that Aryan Nations supports genocide. Who are they (and you) fooling? -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Internalizing Removable Drive... Is it possible to rip an external SyQuest removable drive out of its external casing and install it into the 5 1/4"" empty bay slot on a Centris 650? I know a special bracket would need to be purchased, but is there any power hookup/SCSI constraints that would prevent it? If anyone has done it, could they mail me some instructions. It doesn't seem to be that overwhelming an undertaking. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | nicholas lamendola | ""...he who controls the fork, | | | controls the meal of his choice..."" | | npl@lingo.psych.rochester.edu | | | npl@merlin.cvs.rochester.edu | -- LARD (1991) -- | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",4 "ABC Confirms Two Points of FBI's Version Well, the question of why fire equipment took so long to reach the compound has been answered. ABC aired a report including the 911 tapes from Monday. The FBI called 911 within 4 minutes of the fire's breakout. Unfortunately, dispatch of vehicles outside the Waco city limits required approval of a deputy chief, who was not available (literally out to lunch?); the 911 operator desperately called around to local community volunteer fire departments to get something out there. By the time trucks arrived 27 minutes later, the whole complex was aflame and it was clearly too little, too late; there were just two pumpers and no water supply. The FBI made another call requesting a tank truck, but the Waco department apparently depended on hydrants and did not have one. Though clearly unwilling to risk firemen's lives in the line of fire, it seems they might have done so had there been sufficient equipment and water to make a difference. They even aired a tape of a woman who called Waco 911 from Georgia asking if anything was being done. Civic-minded, but probably irresponsible; if everyone watching television did that, no local calls could get through. ABC also aired the comments of an independent fire investigator who viewed tapes from more than one side of the compound (not just the standard ""pool shot""), and agreed that the fire a) must have been started in at least 3 places, and b) must have had an accelerant to spread so fast. Neither of these is conclusive proof that the Koresh crowd offed themselves more than the FBI offed them, but it's a heck of a lot stronger proof than some of the ""theories"" floating around the net. Score 2 FBI, 0 Branch Davidians. Or is that -89 Branch Davidians? -- | The Koresh cult standoff is over ... may his victims Recquiescat in Pace | | | | (the above is a net.moment of silence) | Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract ",16 "Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises In article <1993Apr15.175302.25180@sarah.albany.edu> js8484@albnyvms.bitnet writes: >In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu>, sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall) writes: >> >> 1)Spike Owen. Sure, he's hitting like crazy, but the guy *cannot* >> field to save his life! And they said he was brought in to >> provide defense? Velarde, Stankiewicz, and even Silvestri >> are better defensively than Owen. > >Remember - it's still early. Look for his offense to tail off, and >his defense to improve (hopefully). He has that rep because I heard >that either last year, or over the last 5 years, or something like >that - he has the third highest fielding percentage among major league >shortstops - behind C.R. and Tony (I'm not gonna help this sorry Mets >team at all) Fernandez. I do agree though that he has not looked all >that impressive in the field thus far. Owen only has one error so far, I believe. That seriously underrepresents the harm he has done in the field. Owen will cleanly play any ball he reaches. He will have a fine fielding percentage, like always. The problem is that he doesn't reach anything that isn't hit straight at him! This wouldn't be quite as obvious a problem if he were playing next to Kelly Gruber or Robin Ventura. But the third baseman for the Yankees is Wade Boggs (who should have moved across the diamond *last* year)! I've only seen one game, Abbott's first start, but there were three balls hit to the left side which would have been stopped by quality defensive players. Instead they were charged as hits against Abbott. Cheers, -Valentine ",9 "Re: Mary's assumption In article Brian Finnerty, bfinnert@chaph.usc.edu writes: > One last point: an ex-Catholic attempted to explain Catholic doctrine > on the assumption by asserting it is connected to a belief that Mary > did not die. This is not a correct summary of what Catholics believe. > The dogma of the assumption was carefully phrased to avoid saying > whether Mary did or did not die. In fact, the consensus among Catholic > theologians seems to be that Mary in fact did die. This would make > sense: Christ died, and his Mother, who waited at the foot of the > cross, would want to share in his death. The above article is a good short summary of traditional Christian teaching concerning the death of Mary. Also very good is ""Re: Question about the Virgin Mary"" by Micheal D. Walker. He tells the story very well. I would like to add that in the Eastern Orthodox Church we celebrate ""The Dormition (or falling asleep) of the Theotokos (the mother of God)"". The Icon for this day shows Mary lying on a bed surrounded by the Apostles who are weeping. Christ, in his resurrected glory, is there holding what seems to be a small child. This is, in fact, Mary's soul already with Christ in Heaven. The Assumption of Mary is one more confirmation for us as Christians that Christ did indeed conquer death. It forshadows the general resurrection on the last day. The disciples were not surprised to find Mary's body missing from the grave. She was the Mother of the Savior. She was the first of all Christians. She gave birth to the Word of God. If it were not for her we would not be saved. This is why we pray in the Orthodox Church, ""Through the prayers of the Theotokos, Savior save us."" Timothy Richardson rich0043@student.tc.umn.edu ",15 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes: #frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes ... #>Plus questions for you: why do subjectivists/relativists/nihilists get so #>het up about the idea that relativism is *better* than objectivism? # #To the degree that relativism is a more accurate decription of the #truth than is objectivism, it provides more power and ability to #control events. I think you lose the right to talk about THE truth once you say values are relative. Accuracy is a value judgement, too. It so happens I agree with the substance of what you say below, but it's clear to me that at least *some* values are objective. Truth is better than falsehood, peace is better than war, education is better than ignorance. We know these things, if we know anything. #Assuming, for the moment, that morals _are_ relative, then two #relativists can recognize that neither has a lock on the absolute #truth and they can proceed to negotiate a workable compromise that #produces the desired results. No they cannot, because they acknowledge up front that THE desired results do not exist. That, after all, is the meaning of compromise. Plus some problems: If the relativists have no values in common, compromise is impossible - what happens then? Who, if anyone, is right? What happens if one relativist has a value ""Never compromise?"". A value ""plant bombs in crowded shopping areas""? After all, if morals are relative, these values cannot *meaningfully* be said to be incorrect. #Assuming that there is an absolute morality, two disagreeing #objectivists can either be both wrong or just one of them right; there #is no room for compromise. Once you beleive in absolute morals, #you must accept that you are amoral or that everyone who disagrees #with you is amoral. Untrue. One can accept that one does not know the whole truth. Part of the objective truth about morality may well be that flexibility is better than rigidity, compromise is better than believing you have a lock on morals, etc. In the same way, I can believe in an objective reality without claiming to know the mechanism for quantum collapse, or who shot JFK. #Given a choice between a peaceful compromise or endless contention, #I'd say that compromise seems to be ""better"". And I would agree. But it's bloody to pointless to speak of it if it's merely a matter of taste. Is your liking for peace any better founded than someone else's liking for ice-cream? I'm looking for a way to say ""yes"" to that question, and relativism isn't it. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: Supply Side-revenue In <9460@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> ssoar@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Steven E Soar) writes: |In article , ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes: |> |> The result is that Clinton now HOPES to reduce the deficit to a level |> ABOVE where it was when Reagan left office. |Which, considering the amount Bush&congress added to it, would be a |not-inconsiderable achievement. |While we're on the subject, I also believe that the supply-side claim that |reducing taxes raised revenue is also false, because they typically factor in You need to hop over to talk.politics.misc. Wee have been chewing on this gem for awhile. The challenge has been made to name a single supply sider who ever said this. For the last three weeks the challenge has gone unmet. I issue the same challenge to you. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com ",18 "Re: Infield Fly Rule One last infield fly question that has always puzzled me and hasn't yet been addressed. I believe the rule also does *not* deal with this situation: If Infield Fly is declared and the ball is caught, runners can tag up and advance at their own risk, as on any fly ball. However, if the Infield Fly is *not* caught, at what point can a runner legally leave his base w/o fear of being doubled off for advancing too early? When the ball hits the ground? When a fielder first touches the ball after it hits the ground? Enlightenment would be appreciated. Jay ",9 "Re: VHS movie for sale In article <1qvk1u$jnu@bigboote.WPI.EDU> martimer@jaguar.WPI.EDU (the random one...) writes: >>Dance with Wovies ($12.00) > ^^^^^^ what the hell ios a 'wovie' ?? (wovy (sp))?? ^^^ what the hell is 'ios'? Fix your own typos before you blame others.... -- GO SKINS! ||""Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite GO BRAVES! || an effect on you?"" - Mike Patton, Faith No More GO HORNETS! || GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu ",6 "NASA Special Publications for Voyager Mission? I have two books, both NASA Special Publications, on the Voyager Missions. One is titled ""Voyages to Jupiter"" the other ""Voyage to Saturn"" These were excellent books put together after the encounters with each planet. The question is: Did NASA ever put together a similar book for either the Uranus encounter or Neptune? If so, what SP number is it and where can it be obtained? If not, why didn't they? -- gene@theporch.raider.net (Gene Wright) theporch.raider.net 615/297-7951 The MacInteresteds of Nashville ",14 "Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu>, sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall) writes: > >Some pleasant (and then some not so pleasant) surprises about the 1993 >edition of the Bronx Bombers so far. > >First, the pleasant: > > 1)Spike Owen. All through spring training, this guy was > looking like the second coming of Mike Gallego, but with > even worse hitting. Now the guy is third in the major leagues > in BA, and he's ranked pretty high in total hits and runs > scored. I know it's still early in the season, but he and > Pat Kelly (more on him in a minute) have provided a lot of > spark at the bottom of the order that's given the big guys > (Mattingly, Tartabull, O'Neill) plenty of RBI opportunities. > Let's hope he keeps this up. > > 2)Pat Kelly. The guy is finally showing some of the ability > that led Stick Michael to label him a ""star for the 90s"". > I wouldn't go that far, but Kelly looks infinitely improved > at bat (I guess the tips he took from Boggs in spring training > really paid off. Huh! And here I thought Boggs would never > do anything to help anybody besides himself!). And his glove, > like always, has been terrific (he and Mattingly comprise the > best defensive right side of the infield in all of baseball IMHO). > > 3)Paul O'Neill. We had to get rid of Roberto Kelly, partly > because he was under too much pressure in NY to be the next > Barry Bonds (he won't do that in Cincy, either), and partly > because he had this real unprofessional tendency to give up > in the second half of the year. I just felt that we could've > gotten more for him than O'Neill. Well, so far, O'Neill is > turning out just fine. He looks like he should be able to > duplicate (if not surpass) Mel Hall's numbers from last year, > and he keeps opposing pitchers from pitching around Tartabull. > Now, if only Buck would play him against lefties some more to > see what he can do! > > 4)Wickman. A friend made a comparison between Wickman and Jack > Morris - they never have impressive stats but they always > find some way to win (although Morris seems to be losing that > ability). I figured that Wickman would be the least important > part of the Steve Sax trade (best trade since we got that Ruth > guy), maybe winding up as a good middle reliever. But I like what > I've seen so far. He doesn't pitch pretty, but he gets the job done. > > 5)Key. What's going on here? Key was just supposed to provide > the rotation with some stability (you know, shore up the left > side, provide experience, get maybe 15 wins), and here this guy > is *dominating* everybody he faces! Who needs Maddux or Cone (0-2)? > I'll take Key any day. > >And now, the not so pleasant surprises: > > 1)Spike Owen. Sure, he's hitting like crazy, but the guy *cannot* > field to save his life! And they said he was brought in to > provide defense? Velarde, Stankiewicz, and even Silvestri > are better defensively than Owen. Remember - it's still early. Look for his offense to tail off, and his defense to improve (hopefully). He has that rep because I heard that either last year, or over the last 5 years, or something like that - he has the third highest fielding percentage among major league shortstops - behind C.R. and Tony (I'm not gonna help this sorry Mets team at all) Fernandez. I do agree though that he has not looked all that impressive in the field thus far. > > 2)Tartabull. The book on Tartabull was, keep him healthy and > he'll produce. Well, he hasn't done too much so far. Sure. he's > hit a few homers, but those were all solo shots, and he hasn't > gotten any of the ""big"" RBIs that your cleanup man is supposed > to give you. Then again, he had a slow start last year (once he > got off the DL, that is) and turned into a one-man wrecking crew > late in the year, so we'll see. > > 3)The Bullpen. UGH!!!!!What happened? We were supposed to have > one of the most solid pens in the majors! Meanwhile, the pen > has already blown three saves (maybe more - I haven't checked). > The great Howe/Farr lefty/righty tandem? Farr's ERA is in the > 20s or 30s, and Howe's is.....infinite. (I didn't think such > a thing was possible, but it is). Hopefully, they'll get their > acts together, or else Buck's gonna burn out the starters > for fear that the bullpen'll blow a lead. > >In the immortal words of the Scooter, ""Holy Cow, Seaver! That Johnny Key >guy can pitch, can't he?"" > >See you in the Series! > >-Alan ",9 "CPU Temperature vs CPU Activity ? Organization: Compact Solutions, Canberra ACT Australia > This may be a very naive question but is there any > basis for the > claim that a CPU will get hotter when a > computationally intensive > job is running? My friend claims that there will be > little difference > in the temperature of an idle CPU and a CPU running a > computationally > intensive job. From what I've seen in coursework, most CPUs never actually ""idle"". They will continue to service interrupts, etc., etc. The clock will always be running at n Mhz no matter what it's doing. I suppose depending on the instruction, the CPU may use circuitry which has more transistors than other instructions, but if you consider the additional heat generated by only a handful of additional, tiny resistors and then spread that heat dissipation over the CPU's packaging, the change in temperature to the immediate environment (ie. the surface of the package) will be negligible. Cheers, Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ben J. Elliston Bachelor of Engineering (Computer Engineering) \\\// University of Canberra (@ @) ___ooO_( )_Ooo__ Email: compsol@fir.canberra.edu.au V Also: ellib@cbr.cpsg.com.au UUCP: ..!uunet!munnari!sserve.adfa.oz.au!compsol!root FidoNet: 3:620/262 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ * Origin: % Compact Solutions % Canberra ACT Australia % (3:620/262) ",3 "Windows for WorkGroups and LAN Workplace This may be a simple question but: We have a number of PC's which we use to link to a mainframe using Novell LAN WorkPlace for DOS (via WIndows 3.1). Now, to make life easier for us we are thinking of using Windows for Workgroups to allow file sharing across our PC network. Now does anyone know if it is possible to use W4WG and Lan Workplace for DOS at the same time. ie Can I access a file on another PC while being logged on to the mainframe at the same time, simultaneously. Any help well appreciated. Gary Hunt. Centre for Advanced Studies in Architecture University of Bath absgh@gdr.bath.ac.uk ",2 "Re: Did Microsoft buy Xhibition?? jessea@u013.me.vp.com (Jesse W. Asher) wrote: >I've been getting mail from Xhibition about the June conference and I was >wondering if Microsoft had bought Xhibition? The front says ""Conference >from Microsoft Windows NT Developers"". What's the deal? I thought >""X""hibition was for ""X-windows""?? I had exactly the same feeling. I was depressed. If you ever programmed Windows and X11, you'd be depressed if an X conference touted its tutorials to show you how to convert from X to Windows API. Sort of like, ""how to convert your C++ classes to the new, improved C."" What happened? -- ____ \ /Dan Greening Software Transformation 1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100 \/greening@sti.com (408) 973-8081 x313 Cupertino, CA 95014 ",5 "rec.sport.baseball.fantasy April 1, 1993 I am participating in an NL-league that uses standard Rotisserie rules except that the following catagories are used: For position players: lowest batting average strike-outs caught-stealing errors For pitchers: losses blown saves higest ERA 'taters allowed This is the fifth year that I've participated in this Blowtisserie league. Last year I won the pennant due primarily to the fact that I had terrible pitching. I would like to lower my batting average which is rather high because I do have Jose Offerman (who made up for this by helping me lock first place in errors). Anyway, someone offered: Andres Gallaraga for Bud Black I can afford to give up Bud Black because I still have Kyle Abbott. However, I am afraid of Andres actually doing well this season. Should I make the trade or not? Your comments will be appreciated. -- Warren Usui I'm one with the Universe -- on a scale from 1 to 10. ",9 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. I posted this over in sci.astro, but it didn't make it here. Thought you all would like my wonderful pithy commentary :-) What? You guys have never seen the Goodyear blimp polluting the daytime and nightime skies? Actually an oribital sign would only be visible near sunset and sunrise, I believe. So pollution at night would be minimal. If it pays for space travel, go for it. Those who don't like spatial billboards can then head for the pristine environment of Jupiter's moons :-) --- Thomas Clarke Institute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL 12424 Research Parkway, Suite 300, Orlando, FL 32826 (407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ucf.edu ",14 "NHL Final point standings Individual leaders by total points (Final standings) NOTE: Games played and points per games not accurate !! Player Team GP G A Pts ppg Prj PIM +/- M.Lemieux PIT 59 69 91 160 2.71 160 38 53 LaFontaine BUF 82 53 95 148 1.80 148 63 13 Oates BOS 83 45 97 142 1.71 142 32 12 Yzerman DET 83 58 79 137 1.65 137 44 33 Turgeon NYI 80 58 74 132 1.65 132 26 -2 Selanne WIN 82 76 56 132 1.61 132 45 6 Mogilny BUF 75 76 51 127 1.69 127 40 9 Gilmour TOR 81 32 95 127 1.57 127 96 32 Robitaille LA 82 63 62 125 1.52 127 100 16 Recchi PHI 81 53 70 123 1.52 123 95 -2 Sundin QUE 79 47 67 114 1.44 114 96 19 Stevens PIT 71 55 57 112 1.58 112 169 16 Bure VAN 82 60 50 110 1.34 110 67 37 Tocchet PIT 79 48 61 109 1.38 109 240 28 Roenick CHI 82 50 57 107 1.30 107 82 15 Janney STL 82 24 82 106 1.29 106 12 1 Sakic QUE 77 48 57 105 1.36 105 40 -4 Juneau BOS 83 32 70 102 1.23 102 33 21 Hull STL 78 54 47 101 1.29 101 41 -21 Andreychuk TOR 81 55 45 100 1.23 100 56 4 Fleury CAL 82 34 66 100 1.22 100 88 15 Francis PIT 83 24 76 100 1.20 100 68 6 Housley WIN 78 18 79 97 1.24 97 52 -13 Ciccarelli DET 81 41 56 97 1.20 97 81 12 Damphousse MON 82 39 58 97 1.18 97 96 5 Hawerchuk BUF 79 16 80 96 1.22 96 48 -14 Shanahan STL 69 51 43 94 1.36 94 168 9 Muller MON 79 37 57 94 1.19 94 75 9 Jagr PIT 80 34 60 94 1.18 94 69 31 Modano MIN 80 33 60 93 1.16 93 81 -6 Messier NYR 72 25 66 91 1.26 91 70 -3 Sanderson HAR 79 46 43 89 1.13 89 28 -24 Reichel CAL 78 40 48 88 1.13 88 54 23 Bellows MON 80 40 48 88 1.10 88 42 4 Fedorov DET 72 34 53 87 1.21 87 72 33 Thomas NYI 76 37 50 87 1.14 87 109 0 Coffey DET 79 12 75 87 1.10 87 77 16 Kurri LA 81 27 60 87 1.07 88 38 20 Bradley TB 78 42 44 86 1.10 86 90 -22 Brind'Amour PHI 78 37 49 86 1.10 86 87 -9 Ronning VAN 77 29 56 85 1.10 85 30 16 Bondra WAS 80 37 48 85 1.06 85 70 3 Cassels HAR 81 21 64 85 1.05 85 57 -15 Murphy PIT 82 22 62 84 1.02 84 73 42 Bourque BOS 78 19 63 82 1.05 82 40 38 Granato LA 79 37 45 82 1.04 83 165 3 Verbeek HAR 81 39 43 82 1.01 82 180 -11 Ridley WAS 81 26 56 82 1.01 82 38 4 Duchesne QUE 81 20 62 82 1.01 82 57 15 C.Lemieux NJ 75 30 51 81 1.08 81 149 0 Suter CAL 80 23 58 81 1.01 81 112 -1 Lebeau MON 69 31 49 80 1.16 80 20 23 Roberts CAL 57 38 41 79 1.39 79 172 31 Semak NJ 80 37 42 79 0.99 79 70 22 Hatcher WAS 80 34 45 79 0.99 79 110 -12 D.Hunter WAS 81 20 59 79 0.98 79 194 2 Courtnall MIN 82 36 43 79 0.96 79 49 -2 Brown STL 69 25 53 78 1.13 78 56 -4 Ricci QUE 76 27 51 78 1.03 78 121 9 Kisio SJ 77 26 52 78 1.01 78 90 -15 Craven VAN 76 25 52 77 1.01 77 30 0 G.Courtnall VAN 82 31 46 77 0.94 77 167 23 Nolan QUE 72 36 40 76 1.06 76 185 -6 King NYI 74 38 38 76 1.03 76 45 -1 Amonte NYR 80 33 43 76 0.95 76 47 0 Gagner MIN 82 33 43 76 0.93 76 141 -15 Lindros PHI 58 41 34 75 1.29 75 143 25 Hogue NYI 67 33 42 75 1.12 75 106 6 Nieuwendyk CAL 77 38 37 75 0.97 75 52 8 Pivonka WAS 66 21 53 74 1.12 74 51 12 Borschevsky TOR 76 34 40 74 0.97 74 26 32 Dahlen MIN 81 35 39 74 0.91 74 6 -18 Richer NJ 76 38 35 73 0.96 73 44 0 Emerson STL 80 22 51 73 0.91 73 60 -1 Nedved VAN 82 38 35 73 0.89 73 94 18 Chelios CHI 82 15 58 73 0.89 73 282 13 Carson LA 84 37 36 73 0.87 74 30 2 Zhamnov WIN 66 25 47 72 1.09 72 58 5 Kvartalnov BOS 72 30 42 72 1.00 72 14 9 Steen WIN 78 22 50 72 0.92 72 75 -8 Linden VAN 82 33 39 72 0.88 72 60 15 Mullen PIT 71 33 37 70 0.99 70 12 21 Larmer CHI 82 35 35 70 0.85 70 48 22 Donnelly LA 82 29 40 69 0.84 70 45 18 Kovalenko QUE 80 27 41 68 0.85 68 57 10 Gartner NYR 81 45 23 68 0.84 68 55 -2 Khristich WAS 61 31 36 67 1.10 67 26 26 Sheppard DET 70 32 34 66 0.94 66 29 7 Garpenlov SJ 78 22 44 66 0.85 66 56 -25 Iafrate WAS 81 25 41 66 0.81 66 169 15 Gretzky LA 43 16 49 65 1.51 67 6 6 Zalapski HAR 80 14 51 65 0.81 65 86 -32 Graves NYR 81 36 29 65 0.80 65 148 -4 Anderson TOR 74 21 43 64 0.86 64 117 19 Zelepukin NJ 76 23 41 64 0.84 64 66 16 MacIver OTT 78 17 46 63 0.81 63 80 -42 Dineen PHI 80 35 28 63 0.79 63 199 11 Chiasson DET 78 12 50 62 0.79 62 151 15 Ysebaert DET 79 34 28 62 0.78 62 42 19 Galley PHI 80 13 49 62 0.78 62 98 14 McEachern PIT 83 28 33 61 0.73 61 46 21 Nicholls NJ 67 13 47 60 0.90 60 80 -13 Keane MON 75 15 45 60 0.80 60 93 28 Flatley NYI 77 13 47 60 0.78 60 61 3 S.Young QUE 81 30 30 60 0.74 60 20 4 Shannon WIN 82 20 40 60 0.73 60 91 -4 Fedyk PHI 74 21 38 59 0.80 59 48 14 Blake LA 76 16 43 59 0.78 60 152 18 Olausson WIN 66 16 41 57 0.86 57 22 -5 Makarov CAL 70 18 39 57 0.81 57 40 0 Smith CHI 76 10 47 57 0.75 57 212 13 Elynuik WAS 77 22 35 57 0.74 57 66 2 Stevens NJ 79 12 45 57 0.72 57 116 16 Adams VAN 51 25 31 56 1.10 56 14 33 Tucker TB 76 17 39 56 0.74 56 69 -10 MacInnis CAL 48 11 43 54 1.13 54 59 15 Sutter CHI 63 20 34 54 0.86 54 65 9 Bodger BUF 80 9 45 54 0.68 54 87 14 Nemchinov NYR 81 23 31 54 0.67 54 34 15 Driver NJ 81 14 40 54 0.67 54 64 -9 Ruuttu CHI 82 17 37 54 0.66 54 134 14 Yake HAR 63 22 31 53 0.84 53 44 5 Turcotte NYR 68 25 28 53 0.78 53 40 -2 Sandstrom LA 37 25 27 52 1.41 53 51 11 Malakhov NYI 61 14 38 52 0.85 52 59 14 Ward VAN 68 22 30 52 0.76 52 82 32 Otto CAL 74 19 33 52 0.70 52 150 2 Kontos TB 66 27 24 51 0.77 51 12 -7 Leach BOS 78 26 25 51 0.65 51 126 -6 Poulin HAR 78 20 31 51 0.65 51 37 -19 Tkachuk WIN 81 28 23 51 0.63 51 199 -14 Savard MON 62 16 34 50 0.81 50 90 2 Norton NYI 63 12 38 50 0.79 50 45 -6 Cullen TOR 64 18 32 50 0.78 50 109 -23 Cote WAS 74 21 29 50 0.68 50 34 28 Eklund PHI 52 11 38 49 0.94 49 16 8 Olczyk NYR 68 21 28 49 0.72 49 52 -1 Semenov VAN 74 12 37 49 0.66 49 32 16 Davydov WIN 77 28 21 49 0.64 49 64 -2 Miller STL 80 24 25 49 0.61 49 96 0 Poulin BOS 83 16 33 49 0.59 49 62 30 Klima EDM 66 32 16 48 0.73 48 98 -15 Dionne MON 73 20 28 48 0.66 48 55 6 Baker OTT 74 19 29 48 0.65 48 52 -21 Rucinsky QUE 76 18 30 48 0.63 48 51 14 Weight EDM 76 17 31 48 0.63 48 65 5 Zhitnik LA 76 12 36 48 0.63 49 78 -2 MacLean NJ 78 24 24 48 0.62 48 100 -7 Corson EDM 78 16 31 47 0.60 47 207 -16 Sweeney BUF 79 21 26 47 0.59 47 118 4 Simpson EDM 60 24 22 46 0.77 46 36 -14 Hawgood PHI 66 11 35 46 0.70 46 68 -9 Johansson WAS 74 7 38 45 0.61 45 54 0 Miller WAS 81 18 27 45 0.56 45 32 -1 Manson EDM 81 15 30 45 0.56 45 210 -26 Desjardins MON 81 13 32 45 0.56 45 98 19 Schneider MON 58 13 31 44 0.76 44 89 9 Goulet CHI 63 23 21 44 0.70 44 41 10 Leclair MON 70 19 25 44 0.63 44 33 11 Drake DET 71 18 26 44 0.62 44 91 14 Lumme VAN 73 8 36 44 0.60 44 55 29 Gaudreau SJ 58 23 20 43 0.74 43 18 -17 Gill TOR 68 11 32 43 0.63 43 64 4 Turgeon OTT 70 25 18 43 0.61 43 104 -26 Probert DET 79 14 29 43 0.54 43 292 -9 Wood BUF 80 18 25 43 0.54 43 77 7 Ranheim CAL 82 21 22 43 0.52 43 26 -4 Zamuner TB 82 15 28 43 0.52 43 72 -25 Tinordi MIN 69 15 27 42 0.61 42 157 -1 Paslawski CAL 71 18 24 42 0.59 42 12 0 Ruzicka BOS 60 19 22 41 0.68 41 38 -6 Elik EDM 60 14 27 41 0.68 41 56 -4 Kudelski OTT 61 24 17 41 0.67 41 28 -25 McSorley LA 79 15 26 41 0.52 42 393 0 Shaw OTT 79 7 34 41 0.52 41 34 -47 Lidstrom DET 83 7 34 41 0.49 41 28 7 Stastny NJ 60 17 23 40 0.67 40 20 -3 Ellett TOR 68 6 34 40 0.59 40 46 17 Tikkanen NYR 78 16 24 40 0.51 40 94 -22 Niedermayer NJ 78 11 29 40 0.51 40 47 8 Racine DET 79 9 31 40 0.51 40 80 8 McPhee MIN 82 18 22 40 0.49 40 44 -4 Millen LA 40 23 16 39 0.98 40 42 15 Chambers TB 53 10 29 39 0.74 39 34 -23 Holik NJ 59 20 19 39 0.66 39 72 -2 Clark TOR 65 17 22 39 0.60 39 187 3 Khmylev BUF 66 20 19 39 0.59 39 26 6 Creighton TB 81 19 20 39 0.48 39 110 -21 Krushelnyski TOR 82 19 20 39 0.48 39 60 3 Kurvers NYI 49 8 30 38 0.78 38 38 8 Crossman STL 57 10 28 38 0.67 38 28 -6 Kovalev NYR 63 20 18 38 0.60 38 79 -8 Craig MIN 68 15 23 38 0.56 38 106 -10 Krupp NYI 79 9 29 38 0.48 38 67 8 Momesso VAN 82 18 20 38 0.46 38 193 11 Kamensky QUE 31 15 22 37 1.19 37 14 13 Numminen WIN 65 7 30 37 0.57 37 33 4 Pearson TOR 76 23 14 37 0.49 37 196 -2 Graham CHI 82 20 17 37 0.45 37 141 1 Leetch NYR 36 6 30 36 1.00 36 26 2 Ciger EDM 62 13 23 36 0.58 36 8 -14 Beers TB 62 12 24 36 0.58 36 70 -24 Reid BOS 65 20 16 36 0.55 36 10 12 Lapointe QUE 73 10 26 36 0.49 36 98 4 Sjodin MIN 75 7 29 36 0.48 36 30 -25 Weinrich HAR 76 7 29 36 0.47 36 76 -10 Borsato WIN 65 15 20 35 0.54 35 38 -1 Zezel TOR 68 12 23 35 0.51 35 24 -1 Burr DET 79 10 25 35 0.44 35 74 18 Donato BOS 81 15 20 35 0.43 35 61 2 Benning EDM 55 10 24 34 0.62 34 152 -1 Howe DET 59 3 31 34 0.58 34 22 20 Guerin NJ 63 14 20 34 0.54 34 63 16 Hull OTT 67 13 21 34 0.51 34 14 -21 D.Sweeney BOS 83 7 27 34 0.41 34 66 34 Nylander HAR 56 11 22 33 0.59 33 36 -5 Beranek PHI 63 15 18 33 0.52 33 78 -6 Wesley BOS 64 8 25 33 0.52 33 47 -2 Matteau CHI 77 15 18 33 0.43 33 96 6 Broten MIN 80 12 21 33 0.41 33 22 7 Leeman MON 50 15 17 32 0.64 32 24 14 Dalgarno NYI 55 15 17 32 0.58 32 60 16 Mellanby EDM 67 15 17 32 0.48 32 147 -4 Primeau DET 73 15 17 32 0.44 32 152 -6 Gilbert CHI 75 13 19 32 0.43 32 57 5 Mullen NYI 78 18 14 32 0.41 32 28 7 Presley BUF 78 15 17 32 0.41 32 92 5 Leschyshyn QUE 81 9 23 32 0.40 32 55 22 Zubov NYR 46 8 23 31 0.67 31 4 1 Mironov TOR 57 7 24 31 0.54 31 38 -2 Bureau TB 63 10 21 31 0.49 31 111 -12 Brisebois MON 68 10 21 31 0.46 31 77 8 Heinze BOS 72 18 13 31 0.43 31 24 21 Smehlik BUF 78 4 27 31 0.40 31 59 10 Lemieux CHI 79 10 21 31 0.39 31 109 4 Yushkevich PHI 79 5 26 31 0.39 31 71 10 Evason SJ 83 12 19 31 0.37 31 132 -33 McInnis NYI 56 10 20 30 0.54 30 24 7 Noonan CHI 61 16 14 30 0.49 30 82 1 Gallant DET 66 10 20 30 0.45 30 186 20 Kennedy DET 67 19 11 30 0.45 30 46 -1 Hough QUE 77 8 22 30 0.39 30 69 -11 Gusarov QUE 78 8 22 30 0.38 30 57 16 MacTavish EDM 80 10 20 30 0.38 30 110 -15 Buchberger EDM 81 12 18 30 0.37 30 133 -24 Janssens HAR 73 12 17 29 0.40 29 233 -12 U.Samuelson PIT 76 3 26 29 0.38 29 247 37 Sydor LA 78 6 23 29 0.37 29 59 0 Duchesne MIN 82 16 13 29 0.35 29 30 6 Falloon SJ 41 14 14 28 0.68 28 12 -25 Sandlak VAN 59 10 18 28 0.47 28 122 2 Carpenter WAS 65 11 17 28 0.43 28 63 -16 Kron HAR 42 14 13 27 0.64 27 18 7 Ferraro NYI 43 14 13 27 0.63 27 38 -5 Kravchuk EDM 55 10 17 27 0.49 27 32 3 Plavsic VAN 56 6 21 27 0.48 27 51 27 Ron Sutter STL 59 12 15 27 0.46 27 99 -11 Cole TB 65 12 15 27 0.42 27 21 -4 Odgers SJ 65 12 15 27 0.42 27 251 -25 Fitzgerald NYI 74 9 18 27 0.36 27 32 -1 Fetisov NJ 74 4 23 27 0.36 27 158 7 Korolev STL 74 4 23 27 0.36 27 20 -1 Kypreos HAR 75 17 10 27 0.36 27 325 -5 Andersson TB 75 16 11 27 0.36 27 14 -14 Huddy LA 80 2 25 27 0.34 27 62 20 Rich Sutter STL 82 13 14 27 0.33 27 100 -6 Slegr VAN 40 4 22 26 0.65 26 109 16 Svoboda BUF 40 2 24 26 0.65 26 59 3 Patrick NYR 60 5 21 26 0.43 26 61 1 Jones WAS 68 12 14 26 0.38 26 124 16 Lamb OTT 69 7 19 26 0.38 26 62 -40 Osborne TOR 75 12 14 26 0.35 26 87 -7 May BUF 80 13 13 26 0.33 26 238 3 Eagles WIN 82 8 18 26 0.32 26 131 -1 Brunet MON 45 10 15 25 0.56 25 19 13 T.Green NYI 58 7 18 25 0.43 25 43 6 Stern CAL 69 10 15 25 0.36 25 207 2 Lidster VAN 71 6 19 25 0.35 25 36 9 Haller MON 72 11 14 25 0.35 25 117 8 Tippett PIT 73 6 19 25 0.34 25 56 7 Peluso OTT 79 15 10 25 0.32 25 318 -32 DiMaio TB 54 9 15 24 0.44 24 62 0 Brady OTT 55 7 17 24 0.44 24 57 -25 Freer OTT 61 10 14 24 0.39 24 39 -32 Cavallini QUE 66 9 15 24 0.36 24 34 10 Lachance NYI 74 7 17 24 0.32 24 67 -2 Shaw BOS 76 10 14 24 0.32 24 108 9 Berg TOR 78 13 11 24 0.31 24 103 2 Ozolinsh SJ 37 7 16 23 0.62 23 40 -9 Klatt MIN 45 4 19 23 0.51 23 38 6 Loach LA 53 10 13 23 0.43 23 27 3 Todd EDM 55 9 14 23 0.42 23 26 -9 Ashton CAL 56 10 13 23 0.41 23 52 8 McBain OTT 57 7 16 23 0.40 23 43 -35 Gelinas EDM 63 11 12 23 0.37 23 30 2 Bautin WIN 69 5 18 23 0.33 23 92 -2 Krygier WAS 74 11 12 23 0.31 23 60 -14 Johnson MIN 79 3 20 23 0.29 23 105 9 Acton PHI 80 8 15 23 0.29 23 51 -11 Barnes WIN 37 12 10 22 0.59 22 10 -3 Huffman QUE 52 4 18 22 0.42 22 54 0 Sutton BUF 61 8 14 22 0.36 22 30 0 McKay NJ 71 11 11 22 0.31 22 199 1 Konstantinov DET 81 5 17 22 0.27 22 135 23 Pellerin NJ 44 10 11 21 0.48 21 37 -1 Sillinger DET 51 4 17 21 0.41 21 16 0 Volek NYI 56 8 13 21 0.38 21 34 -1 Lindberg CAL 61 9 12 21 0.34 21 18 -4 Evans PHI 65 8 13 21 0.32 21 70 -9 Hamrlik TB 65 6 15 21 0.32 21 65 -20 Gilchrist MIN 68 10 11 21 0.31 21 49 -12 Churla MIN 73 5 16 21 0.29 21 286 -8 Kasparaitis NYI 77 4 17 21 0.27 21 166 14 Loney PIT 81 5 16 21 0.26 21 99 3 Courtenay SJ 38 7 13 20 0.53 20 10 -15 Wilson SJ 42 3 17 20 0.48 20 40 -28 T.Pederson SJ 43 7 13 20 0.47 20 31 -14 Lomakin PHI 48 8 12 20 0.42 20 34 14 Druce WIN 48 6 14 20 0.42 20 37 -5 Hannan BUF 53 5 15 20 0.38 20 41 10 Corriveau HAR 54 8 12 20 0.37 20 12 -20 Bourque NYR 54 6 14 20 0.37 20 39 -9 Hiller DET 60 8 12 20 0.33 20 109 6 Maltais TB 61 7 13 20 0.33 20 35 -19 Burt HAR 62 6 14 20 0.32 20 116 -14 Johansson CAL 75 4 16 20 0.27 20 60 11 Marchment CHI 76 5 15 20 0.26 20 309 13 Diduck VAN 78 6 14 20 0.26 20 163 29 Podein EDM 38 13 6 19 0.50 19 25 -1 Berehowsky TOR 40 4 15 19 0.48 19 61 1 Babych VAN 41 3 16 19 0.46 19 42 4 Audette BUF 42 12 7 19 0.45 19 51 -5 Chorske NJ 50 7 12 19 0.38 19 25 -1 Bassen STL 51 9 10 19 0.37 19 59 -4 Hatcher MIN 65 4 15 19 0.29 19 176 -26 Kucera CHI 70 5 14 19 0.27 19 59 7 Wilson STL 76 8 11 19 0.25 19 44 -7 Macoun TOR 76 4 15 19 0.25 19 55 3 King WIN 77 8 11 19 0.25 19 203 4 Beukeboom NYR 79 2 17 19 0.24 19 153 10 Carkner PHI 80 3 16 19 0.24 19 146 16 Neely BOS 12 11 7 18 1.50 18 25 4 Foligno TOR 54 13 5 18 0.33 18 84 1 Christian CHI 60 4 14 18 0.30 18 12 6 Errey BUF 61 9 9 18 0.30 18 80 1 Gavin MIN 63 10 8 18 0.29 18 59 -4 McLlwain TOR 65 14 4 18 0.28 18 30 -17 Daigneault MON 65 8 10 18 0.28 18 57 24 Ramage MON 74 5 13 18 0.24 18 146 -24 Smith EDM 76 4 14 18 0.24 18 30 -11 Paek PIT 76 3 15 18 0.24 18 64 15 Murphy CHI 17 7 10 17 1.00 17 18 -4 DiPietro MON 27 4 13 17 0.63 17 14 10 M.Pederson SJ 40 10 7 17 0.43 17 24 -20 Nattress PHI 44 7 10 17 0.39 17 29 1 Carbonneau MON 59 4 13 17 0.29 17 20 -8 Yawney CAL 61 1 16 17 0.28 17 65 5 Kasatonov NJ 63 3 14 17 0.27 17 55 7 Roberts BOS 64 5 12 17 0.27 17 103 22 MacDermid WAS 72 9 8 17 0.24 17 80 -13 Odjick VAN 74 4 13 17 0.23 17 360 4 Conacher LA 79 9 8 17 0.22 17 20 -15 Cavallini WAS 79 6 11 17 0.22 17 56 4 Erickson WIN 39 4 12 16 0.41 16 12 2 Straka PIT 41 3 13 16 0.39 16 29 3 Erixon NYR 42 5 11 16 0.38 16 10 13 Murphy BOS 48 5 11 16 0.33 16 60 -14 Ledyard BUF 48 2 14 16 0.33 16 43 0 Butsayev PHI 49 2 14 16 0.33 16 57 2 Ulanov WIN 54 2 14 16 0.30 16 122 6 Carter SJ 55 7 9 16 0.29 16 81 -25 Glynn EDM 62 4 12 16 0.26 16 58 -12 Boschman OTT 68 9 7 16 0.24 16 95 -27 Rumble OTT 68 3 13 16 0.24 16 61 -26 Stanton PIT 76 4 12 16 0.21 16 97 8 Murzyn VAN 77 5 11 16 0.21 16 179 36 Musil CAL 78 6 10 16 0.21 16 129 26 May WAS 80 6 10 16 0.20 16 266 0 Foote QUE 80 4 12 16 0.20 16 168 3 Odelein MON 81 2 14 16 0.20 16 201 35 Andersson NYR 29 4 11 15 0.52 15 16 7 Archibald OTT 42 9 6 15 0.36 15 32 -15 Taylor LA 46 6 9 15 0.33 15 49 2 Lowe NYR 47 3 12 15 0.32 15 58 -1 Domi WIN 59 5 10 15 0.25 15 340 1 McCrimmon DET 60 1 14 15 0.25 15 71 21 Konroyd DET 65 3 12 15 0.23 15 67 -15 Zombo STL 69 0 15 15 0.22 15 78 -4 Butcher STL 82 5 10 15 0.18 15 209 0 Zmolek SJ 83 5 10 15 0.18 15 229 -51 Fergus VAN 36 5 9 14 0.39 14 20 1 Skrudland CAL 38 7 7 14 0.37 14 65 4 Pantaleyev BOS 39 8 6 14 0.36 14 12 -6 Pearson QUE 41 13 1 14 0.34 14 95 3 C.J.Young BOS 43 7 7 14 0.33 14 32 -6 Smail OTT 51 4 10 14 0.27 14 51 -34 Hardy LA 53 1 13 14 0.26 14 89 -1 Broten NYR 58 5 9 14 0.24 14 48 -6 Barr NJ 60 6 8 14 0.23 14 44 3 Taglianetti PIT 71 2 12 14 0.20 14 182 15 Ewen MON 74 5 9 14 0.19 14 191 7 Bergevin TB 76 2 12 14 0.18 14 66 -16 Finn QUE 79 5 9 14 0.18 14 160 -4 Lefebvre TOR 79 2 12 14 0.18 14 90 6 M.Sullivan SJ 81 6 8 14 0.17 14 30 -42 Ojanen NJ 31 4 9 13 0.42 13 14 -2 Reekie TB 42 2 11 13 0.31 13 69 2 Lindsay QUE 44 4 9 13 0.30 13 16 0 Ramsey PIT 44 3 10 13 0.30 13 28 16 Valk VAN 46 6 7 13 0.28 13 73 5 Jelinek OTT 49 7 6 13 0.27 13 52 -21 Needham PIT 55 8 5 13 0.24 13 24 -2 Lowry STL 56 5 8 13 0.23 13 101 -18 Rychel LA 68 6 7 13 0.19 13 293 -14 McGill PHI 70 3 10 13 0.19 13 221 7 Stapleton PIT 78 4 9 13 0.17 13 10 -8 Richardson EDM 80 3 10 13 0.16 13 140 -18 Rouse TOR 80 3 10 13 0.16 13 128 8 Daneyko NJ 82 2 11 13 0.16 13 222 4 Ogrodnick DET 18 6 6 12 0.67 12 2 -3 S. King NYR 24 7 5 12 0.50 12 16 4 Joseph EDM 31 2 10 12 0.39 12 46 -6 Petit CAL 34 3 9 12 0.35 12 50 -6 Williams SJ 39 1 11 12 0.31 12 49 -25 B.Smith MIN 43 5 7 12 0.28 12 8 -6 Bozon STL 52 6 6 12 0.23 12 55 -1 Ronan MON 53 5 7 12 0.23 12 20 6 Dirk VAN 67 4 8 12 0.18 12 146 22 Hunter VAN 72 5 7 12 0.17 12 182 -5 Luongo OTT 74 3 9 12 0.16 12 68 -42 Berube CAL 75 4 8 12 0.16 12 209 -6 Wilson CAL 22 4 7 11 0.50 11 8 10 Vujtek EDM 28 1 10 11 0.39 11 8 -1 Konowalchuk WAS 36 4 7 11 0.31 11 16 4 Snuggerud PHI 39 4 7 11 0.28 11 14 -3 Murray CHI 49 4 7 11 0.22 11 57 -14 Donnelly BUF 58 3 8 11 0.19 11 219 6 Dahl CAL 59 2 9 11 0.19 11 52 9 Kasper TB 66 4 7 11 0.17 11 20 -16 More SJ 73 5 6 11 0.15 11 179 -35 Quintal STL 73 1 10 11 0.15 11 100 -6 Ludwig MIN 76 1 10 11 0.14 11 149 0 Muni CHI 79 0 11 11 0.14 11 73 -15 Lazaro OTT 26 6 4 10 0.38 10 16 -8 Norwood STL 32 3 7 10 0.31 10 63 -5 Featherstone BOS 34 5 5 10 0.29 10 102 6 Murphy OTT 42 3 7 10 0.24 10 28 -18 DeBrusk EDM 49 8 2 10 0.20 10 199 -14 Wells NYR 50 1 9 10 0.20 10 105 -2 Kimble BOS 54 7 3 10 0.19 10 177 4 Corkum BUF 67 6 4 10 0.15 10 38 -2 Dahlquist CAL 73 3 7 10 0.14 10 66 -2 Gordijuk BUF 16 3 6 9 0.56 9 0 4 Hurlbut NYR 23 1 8 9 0.39 9 16 4 Boivin PHI 30 5 4 9 0.30 9 76 -5 Moller BUF 35 2 7 9 0.26 9 83 6 Cunneyworth HAR 36 5 4 9 0.25 9 61 -1 Petrovicky HAR 42 3 6 9 0.21 9 45 -10 McRae STL 45 3 6 9 0.20 9 167 -13 Cirella NYR 52 3 6 9 0.17 9 83 4 Maley SJ 55 2 7 9 0.16 9 143 -27 Daniels PIT 57 5 4 9 0.16 9 14 -6 Hughes BOS 61 5 4 9 0.15 9 191 -5 Lalor WIN 62 1 8 9 0.15 9 74 -13 K.Samuelson PIT 63 3 6 9 0.14 9 106 25 McKenzie HAR 63 3 6 9 0.14 9 202 -9 Kocur NYR 64 3 6 9 0.14 9 129 -9 Loewen OTT 77 4 5 9 0.12 9 145 -25 Houlder BUF 13 3 5 8 0.62 8 6 7 T.Sweeney BOS 14 1 7 8 0.57 8 6 1 Douris BOS 18 4 4 8 0.44 8 4 5 Keczmer HAR 21 4 4 8 0.38 8 28 -2 Greig HAR 22 1 7 8 0.36 8 27 -11 Day HAR 24 1 7 8 0.33 8 47 -8 Werenka EDM 27 5 3 8 0.30 8 24 1 Tatarinov QUE 28 2 6 8 0.29 8 28 6 McDonough SJ 30 6 2 8 0.27 8 6 -21 Hill MON 30 2 6 8 0.27 8 47 -5 K.Brown CHI 31 2 6 8 0.26 8 37 4 Loiselle NYI 38 5 3 8 0.21 8 84 -4 Hudson EDM 39 1 7 8 0.21 8 44 -8 Hedican STL 40 0 8 8 0.20 8 30 -4 Roberge MON 48 4 4 8 0.17 8 140 3 Ahola SJ 49 3 5 8 0.16 8 36 -11 McIntyre NYR 57 3 5 8 0.14 8 82 -14 Anderson WAS 57 2 6 8 0.14 8 18 -1 Houda HAR 57 2 6 8 0.14 8 163 -21 Hartman TB 58 4 4 8 0.14 8 154 -7 Wilkinson SJ 58 1 7 8 0.14 8 96 -48 Hammond OTT 61 4 4 8 0.13 8 104 -40 Barrasso PIT 62 0 8 8 0.13 8 20 0 Kennedy WIN 77 1 7 8 0.10 8 105 -4 Eastwood TOR 12 1 6 7 0.58 7 21 -2 Quintin SJ 14 2 5 7 0.50 7 4 -4 R.Brown CHI 15 1 6 7 0.47 33 33 6 Godynyuk CAL 26 3 4 7 0.27 7 17 7 Rice EDM 26 2 5 7 0.27 7 13 -5 Murray BOS 27 3 4 7 0.26 7 8 -6 Wiemer BOS 27 1 6 7 0.26 7 48 -1 Berezan SJ 28 3 4 7 0.25 7 28 -18 Marois NYI 28 2 5 7 0.25 7 35 -3 Mallette NJ 34 4 3 7 0.21 7 56 3 Hynes PHI 36 3 4 7 0.19 7 16 -3 Gilhen TB 42 3 4 7 0.17 7 12 -13 Chase STL 49 2 5 7 0.14 7 204 -9 Vukota NYI 71 2 5 7 0.10 7 199 4 Zettler SJ 79 0 7 7 0.09 7 150 -48 Lafreniere TB 9 3 3 6 0.67 6 4 -5 Propp MIN 15 3 3 6 0.40 6 0 -8 Belanger MON 18 4 2 6 0.33 6 4 1 Kerr HAR 22 0 6 6 0.27 6 7 -11 Shuchuk LA 23 2 4 6 0.26 6 14 4 Bergland TB 25 3 3 6 0.24 6 11 -9 Vaske NYI 25 1 5 6 0.24 6 30 6 Carney BUF 29 2 4 6 0.21 6 51 2 Dinnen OTT 31 2 4 6 0.19 6 30 -19 Albelin NJ 34 1 5 6 0.18 6 14 -1 Patterson BUF 35 4 2 6 0.17 6 18 -2 Ladouceur HAR 59 2 4 6 0.10 6 107 -17 Russell CHI 66 2 4 6 0.09 6 151 5 Lang LA 11 0 5 5 0.45 5 2 -3 Lipuma TB 13 0 5 5 0.38 5 32 1 Brown NJ 15 0 5 5 0.33 5 2 3 Kozlov DET 16 4 1 5 0.31 5 14 -1 Savage WAS 16 2 3 5 0.31 5 12 -4 Bruce SJ 17 2 3 5 0.29 5 33 -14 Byers SJ 18 4 1 5 0.28 5 122 -2 Conroy PHI 18 3 2 5 0.28 5 17 0 Van Allen EDM 21 1 4 5 0.24 5 6 -2 Richer BOS 23 1 4 5 0.22 5 18 -9 Wolanin QUE 23 1 4 5 0.22 5 49 8 Leach HAR 24 3 2 5 0.21 5 4 -7 Prokhorov STL 26 4 1 5 0.19 5 15 -4 Kruse CAL 26 2 3 5 0.19 5 41 3 Richter NYR 35 0 5 5 0.14 5 2 0 Bawa SJ 41 5 0 5 0.12 5 47 -24 Osiecki MIN 42 1 4 5 0.12 5 19 -20 Matvichuk MIN 51 2 3 5 0.10 5 26 -7 Pedersen HAR 58 1 4 5 0.09 5 60 2 Jennings PIT 58 0 5 5 0.09 5 65 7 Essensa WIN 66 0 5 5 0.08 5 2 0 Ray BUF 68 3 2 5 0.07 5 211 -3 McKim BOS 7 1 3 4 0.57 4 0 2 Faust PHI 8 2 2 4 0.50 4 4 3 Smolinski BOS 8 1 3 4 0.50 4 0 3 Fogarty PIT 12 0 4 4 0.33 4 4 -3 Hervey TB 15 0 4 4 0.27 4 36 -4 Picard SJ 25 4 0 4 0.16 4 24 -17 Reese CAL 25 0 4 4 0.16 4 4 0 Romaniuk WIN 28 3 1 4 0.14 4 22 0 Thompson LA 28 0 4 4 0.14 4 79 -3 Pilon NYI 41 1 3 4 0.10 4 146 -3 Giles STL 48 0 4 4 0.08 4 40 -2 Baron STL 53 2 2 4 0.08 4 59 -5 Cheveldae DET 66 0 4 4 0.06 4 4 0 Hankinson NJ 4 2 1 3 0.75 3 9 2 McDougall EDM 4 2 1 3 0.75 3 4 2 Felsner STL 4 0 3 3 0.75 3 0 0 Ruff TB 8 2 1 3 0.38 3 8 -1 Petrov MON 9 2 1 3 0.33 3 10 2 Black MIN 10 2 1 3 0.30 3 4 0 Morris SJ 14 0 3 3 0.21 3 6 -11 Walter VAN 23 3 0 3 0.13 3 8 -2 Hrivnak WIN 29 0 3 3 0.10 3 0 0 Wakaluk MIN 29 0 3 3 0.10 3 20 0 Dufresne MON 30 1 2 3 0.10 3 30 0 Cronin PHI 34 2 1 3 0.09 3 37 0 Smyth CAL 34 1 2 3 0.09 3 95 3 Hrudey LA 48 0 3 3 0.06 3 8 0 Marsh OTT 57 0 3 3 0.05 3 30 -25 Casey MIN 58 0 3 3 0.05 3 28 0 Berry MIN 61 0 3 3 0.05 3 107 4 Ranford EDM 66 0 3 3 0.05 3 10 0 Belfour CHI 69 0 3 3 0.04 3 28 0 Rivers TB 4 0 2 2 0.50 2 2 -2 Forslund CAL 5 0 2 2 0.40 2 0 0 Capuano TB 6 1 1 2 0.33 2 2 -4 Djoos NYR 6 1 1 2 0.33 2 2 0 Cummins DET 7 1 1 2 0.29 2 58 0 Otevrel SJ 7 0 2 2 0.29 2 0 -6 Kolstad SJ 10 0 2 2 0.20 2 12 -9 Osborne TB 11 1 1 2 0.18 2 8 -1 Wood SJ 12 1 1 2 0.17 2 71 -5 Brickley WIN 12 0 2 2 0.17 2 2 0 Eakins WIN 14 0 2 2 0.14 2 38 2 Simon QUE 15 1 1 2 0.13 2 67 -2 Bennett CHI 16 0 2 2 0.13 2 8 -2 Gillis HAR 18 1 1 2 0.11 2 38 0 Carlyle WIN 22 1 1 2 0.09 2 14 -6 Nylund NYI 22 1 1 2 0.09 2 43 -2 Blue BOS 22 0 2 2 0.09 2 6 0 Watters LA 22 0 2 2 0.09 2 18 -3 Woolley WAS 23 0 2 2 0.09 2 10 0 Whitmore VAN 29 0 2 2 0.07 2 2 0 Stauber LA 30 0 2 2 0.07 2 2 0 W.Young TB 31 0 2 2 0.06 2 2 0 Roussel PHI 32 0 2 2 0.06 2 11 0 Twist QUE 34 0 2 2 0.06 2 64 0 Fiset QUE 37 0 2 2 0.05 2 2 0 Jablonski TB 42 0 2 2 0.05 2 7 0 Soderstrom PHI 43 0 2 2 0.05 2 4 0 Healy NYI 46 0 2 2 0.04 2 2 0 Burke HAR 50 0 2 2 0.04 2 25 0 Hextall QUE 53 0 2 2 0.04 2 56 0 Roy MON 61 0 2 2 0.03 2 16 0 Vernon CAL 63 0 2 2 0.03 2 42 0 Joseph STL 66 0 2 2 0.03 2 8 0 Brown PHI 67 0 2 2 0.03 2 76 -5 Grimson CHI 76 1 1 2 0.03 2 186 2 Barnaby BUF 1 1 0 1 1.00 1 0 0 Ratushny VAN 1 0 1 1 1.00 1 0 0 Zholtok BOS 1 0 1 1 1.00 1 0 1 Sullivan NJ 2 0 1 1 0.50 1 0 -1 Duncanson NYR 3 0 1 1 0.33 1 0 0 Beaufait SJ 4 1 0 1 0.25 1 0 -1 Bowen PHI 4 1 0 1 0.25 1 2 0 MacDonald BUF 4 1 0 1 0.25 1 2 0 Esau QUE 4 0 1 1 0.25 1 2 1 D.Smith MIN 9 0 1 1 0.11 1 2 -2 Vial DET 9 0 1 1 0.11 1 20 1 Brown BUF 10 0 1 1 0.10 1 6 -5 Draper BUF 11 0 1 1 0.09 1 2 0 Karpa QUE 11 0 1 1 0.09 1 13 -6 Tichy CHI 13 0 1 1 0.08 1 30 7 Gosselin HAR 15 0 1 1 0.07 1 2 0 Fortier LA 16 0 1 1 0.06 1 11 -9 Hayward SJ 18 0 1 1 0.06 1 2 0 McGill TOR 19 1 0 1 0.05 1 34 5 Bergeron TB 19 0 1 1 0.05 1 0 0 Potvin LA 19 0 1 1 0.05 1 52 -9 Berthiaume OTT 23 0 1 1 0.04 1 2 0 Racicot MON 25 0 1 1 0.04 1 6 0 Wregget PIT 25 0 1 1 0.04 1 6 0 Ciccone MIN 29 0 1 1 0.03 1 106 3 Puppa TOR 32 0 1 1 0.03 1 0 0 Hackett SJ 36 0 1 1 0.03 1 4 0 Fitzpatrick NYI 37 0 1 1 0.03 1 2 0 Billington NJ 40 0 1 1 0.03 1 8 0 Potvin TOR 46 0 1 1 0.02 1 4 0 Vanbiesbrouk NYR 48 0 1 1 0.02 1 18 0 McLean VAN 54 0 1 1 0.02 1 16 0 Moog BOS 54 0 1 1 0.02 1 14 0 Beaupre WAS 57 0 1 1 0.02 1 20 0 Baumgartner TOR 61 1 0 1 0.02 1 155 -11 Bales BOS 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Burridge WAS 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Chabot MON 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 D'Alessio HAR 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Littman TB 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Parks NYI 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Semchuk LA 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 St. Amour OTT 1 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 Cimellaro OTT 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 -2 Cote TB 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 -1 Marcinyshyn NYR 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 -1 O'Neill WIN 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Raglan TB 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 Williams LA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 10 0 Charron MON 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 Ciavaglia BUF 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Cloutier QUE 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Hamr OTT 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 -3 Wamsley TOR 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Hirsch NYR 4 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 O'Connor NJ 7 0 0 0 0.00 0 9 -4 J.Messier NYR 9 0 0 0 0.00 0 6 0 Knickle LA 10 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 Chapdelaine LA 13 0 0 0 0.00 0 12 -6 Shannon TOR 15 0 0 0 0.00 0 11 -2 Agnew HAR 16 0 0 0 0.00 0 68 3 Waite CHI 20 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Langway WAS 21 0 0 0 0.00 0 20 -13 Riendeau DET 22 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 Hebert STL 23 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 Tabaracci WAS 23 0 0 0 0.00 0 12 0 Tugnutt EDM 25 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 Caufield PIT 26 0 0 0 0.00 0 60 -1 Hasek BUF 27 0 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 Pietrangelo HAR 30 0 0 0 0.00 0 4 0 Irbe SJ 35 0 0 0 0.00 0 10 0 Terreri NJ 47 0 0 0 0.00 0 6 0 Fuhr BUF 56 0 0 0 0.00 0 10 0 Sidorkiewicz OTT 63 0 0 0 0.00 0 8 0 -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - Maurice Richard - ",10 "Re: Help with changing Startup logo In article <735952415.AA01739@f-454.fidonet.org> (C. Doelle) writes: >Brad, > What is the procedure used to 'specially' compress the BMP file? I would >love to use some of my BMP files I have created as a logo screen. Thanks > >Chris > * Origin: chris.doelle.@f3333.n106.z1.fidonet.org (1:106/3333.26) I don't know the specifics of the compression algorithm, but I've used the shareware program, PaintShop, to convert between the two. You can download it from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, but I don't know what the file is called or what directory it is in (you can start by looking in pub/pc/win3 or try scanning the index files). To convert a .BMP file to a .RLE file, you just load the .BMP file and do a ""Save as..."" Select ""Windows bitmap"" and ""Compressed"" (or is it ""RLE""?) Whatever it is, it's fairly intuitive... Sorry I don't have all the details, but I'm currently on an IBM3151 dumb terminal and can't do much researching...Good luck! -- Brad Smalling :: Jr.EE :: GA Tech :: Atlanta, GA :: gt2617c@prism.gatech.edu ",2 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. Dave Ihnat (ignatz@chinet.chi.il.us) wrote: : In article <1qpg8fINN982@dns1.NMSU.Edu> amolitor@nmsu.edu (Andrew Molitor) writes: : > Not to pick on Mr. May in particular, of course, but isn't this : >kind of the domino theory? When one little country falls, its neighbor : >will surely follow, and before you know it, we're all mining salt : >in Siberia for not turning in our Captain Crunch Secret Decoder Rings. : : But, for all the wrongness of our attempt to correct it (VietNam, et. al.), : the domino theory wasn't disproved at all. Ironically, the domino theory in fact *was* a reasonable metaphor for the collapse of communism, from the liberalizations in Poland and Hungary to the border crossings in the summer of '89 to the fall of the Wall later that year....and then to the ultimate collapse of the USSR. -Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. ",11 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qkj31$4c6@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: > >I'm not willing to attempt this until someone provides an objective >basis for the notion that science is useful, worthy, or important in >dealing with observed facts. Alternatively, you could try to >demonstrate to me that science is not necessarily useful, worthy >or important in any situation. In other words, I need to know >how you use the term ""objective"". One need not have have the notion that science is useful. For example: many Christian scientists do not believe medical science to be usefor or worthy. That does not make medical science subjective. In any event, I fail to see what you mean by ""subjective"" science. Are you suggesting that it is, and that if I step of a building, I may fall, while you may not? I assure you, it is a very objective conclusion that you will fall ( without any other outside means of support ). If you do not believe this, I suggest you step off of a building, and subjectively believe that you will not fall. --- Only when the Sun starts to orbit the Earth will I accept the Bible. ",19 "Orthodox List I recently had to move and forgot to update my address to the Orthodox mailing list. Can anyone e-mail me the address for changes and what exactly I have to put in caps, etc? (please send the original subscription address also). Thanks ahead of time! -Ed. -- Ed ""Shredder"" Sayre internet: shredder@telerama.pgh.pa.us Unemployment Studies major ",15 "Program Manager problem Does anyone know how to configure a DOS app in Progman so that only one instance of it can be running at a time? I'd really appreciate some help on how to do this. I would prefer responses through email if it's not a big deal, or at least through email _as well as_ posting. Thank you! -- James E. Lee jelee@hamlet.ucdavis.edu ""I swear--by my life and my love of it--that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."" -John Galt ""Atlas Shrugged"" ",2 "Re: Trouble compiling X11R5 on SunOS_4.1.3 I was having the same problems compiling X11R5 on a IPC sunos 4.1.3. If you compile with 'make -k World' it will not stop on the ld errors. As was stated in another post the clients with the errors still run correctly. Victor Martinez vic@fajita.saic.com ",5 "Re: The Bible available in every language (was Re: SATANIC TOUNGES) In article bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no writes: >In article >koberg@spot.Colorado.EDU (Allen Koberg) writes: >> The concept of tongues as used at Pentecost seems an outdated concept >> now. With the Bible available in nearly every language, and missionaries >> who are out there in ALL languages, why does the church need tongues? >I guess there are at least some people who are not able to support >this claim. There are still a lot of languages without the Bible, or a >part of the Bible. There are still many languages which we are not >able to write, simply because the written version of the language has >not yet been defined! Yes, I suppose that's true. Of course, notice I qualified with NEARLY every language :-). And there are missionaries out there who can speak every imaginable language AND dialect. But then, the fact that not all languages have a WRITTEN gospel lends no credence to the concept of ""pentecost"" type xenoglossolalia since most tongues occur not in these places of un-written language, but rather in churches full of people who do have a written language and a Bible in that language. But I nitpick. ",15 "Re: How universal are phones these days? In article <1rgka2$n4k@corax.udac.uu.se>, tde9106@hgs.se (Joakim Gunnarsson) writes: |> |> >Two things to watch for: |> >In Germany (and I think the same holds for Sweden) only some |> >of the connections can handle tone dialing, so make sure the |> >phone can be set to pulse dialing. |> >In Sweden, the '0' is the first digit and all other digits |> >are pushed ""down"" by one position; this makes dialing (and |> >in the process converting numbers) an interesting task. |> I think all connections in Norway can handle touchtone dialing. |> Not to touchtone. |> Btw; Norway is even more interesting. They got both system! So you need different phones depending on where in the country you live. |> The Oslo-region has one system, the rest of the country another system. |> So you need different phones depending on where in the country you |> live. (Almost right for pulsdialing.) Some phones have a little switch inside, so you are able to use them all over Norway, or you can just renumber the numbers on your phone. -- Anders Bj{\o}rnestad Division of Computer Science and Telematics Norwegian Inst. of Technology, Trondheim, Norway Email : abjoern@idt.unit.no (Internet) X.400 : C=no; PRMD=uninett; O=unit; OU=idt; S=abjoern ",12 "polygon orientation in DXF? Hi. I'm writing a program to convert .dxf files to a database format used by a 3D graphics program I've written. My program stores the points of a polygon in CCW order. I've used 3D Concepts a little and it seems that the points are stored in the order they are drawn. Does the DXF format have a way of indicating which order the points are stored in, CW or CCW? Its easy enough to convert, but if I don't know which way they are stored, I dont know which direction the polygon should be visible from. If DXF doesn't handle this, can anyone recommend a workaround? The best I can think of is to create two polygons for each one in the DXF file, one stored CW and the other CCW. But that doubles the number of polygons and decreases speed... Thanks in advance for any help, Patrice hugo@hydra.unm.edu ",1 "Lezgians Astir in Azerbaijan and Daghestan 04/19/1993 0000 Lezghis Astir By NEJLA SAMMAKIA Associated Press Writer GUSSAR, Azerbaijan (AP) -- The 600,000 Lezghis of Azerbaijan and Russia have begun clamoring for their own state, threatening turmoil in a tranquil corner of the Caucasus. The region has escaped the ethnic warfare of neighboring Nagorno-Karabakh, Abkhazia and Ossetia, but Lezhgis could become the next minority in the former Soviet Union to fight for independence. Lezghis, who are Muslim descendents of nomadic shepherds, are angry about the conscription of their young men to fight in Azerbaijan's 5-year-old undeclared war with Armenia. They also want to unite the Lezghi regions of Azerbaijan and Russia, which were effectively one until the breakup of the Soviet Union created national borders that had been only lines on a map. A rally of more than 3,000 Lezghis in March to protest conscription and demand a separate ""Lezghistan"" alarmed the Azerbaijani government. Officials in Baku, the capital, deny rumors that police shot six demonstrators to death. But the government announced strict security measures and began cooperating with Russian authorities to control the movement of Lezhgis living across the border in the Dagestan region of Russia. Visitors to Gussar, the center of Lezhgi life, found the town quiet soon after the protest. Children played outdoors in the crisp mountain air. At the Sunday bazaar, men in heavy coats and dark fur hats gathered to discuss grievances ranging from high customs duties at the Russian border to a war they say is not theirs. ""I have been drafted, but I won't go,"" said Shamil Kadimov, gold teeth glinting in the sun. ""Why must I fight a war for the Azerbaijanis? I have nothing to do with Armenia."" More than 3,000 people have died in the war, which centers on the disputed territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, about 150 miles to the southeast. Malik Kerimov, an official in the mayor's office, said only 11 of 300 locals drafted in 1992 had served. ""The police don't force people to go,"" he said. ""They are afraid of an uprising that could be backed by Lezghis in Dagestan."" All the men agreed that police had not fired at the demonstrators, but disagreed on how the protest came about. Some said it occurred spontaneously when rumors spread that Azerbaijan was about to draft 1,500 men from the Gussar region, where 75,000 Lezghis live. Others said the rally was ordered by Gen. Muhieddin Kahramanov, leader of the Lezhgi underground separatist movement, Sadval, based in Dagestan. ""We organized the demonstration when families came to us distraught about draft orders,"" said Kerim Babayev, a mathematics teacher who belongs to Sadval. ""We hope to reunite peacefully, by approaching everyone -- the Azerbaijanis, the Russians."" In the early 18th century, the Lezhgis formed two khanates, or sovereignties, in what are now Azerbaijan and Dagestan. They roamed freely with their sheep over the green hills and mountains between the two khanates. By 1812, the Lezghi areas were joined to czarist Russia. After 1917, they came under Soviet rule. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, the 600,000 Lezghis were faced for the first time with strict borders. About half remained in Dagestan and half in newly independent Azerbaijan. ""We have to pay customs on all this, on cars, on wine,"" complained Mais Talibov, a small trader. His goods, laid out on the ground at the bazaar, included brandy, stomach medication and plastic shoes from Dagestan. ""We want our own country,"" he said. ""We want to be able to move about easily. But Baku won't listen to us."" Physically, it is hard for outsiders to distinguish Lezhgis from other Azerbaijanis. In many villages, they live side by side, working at the same jobs and intermarrying to some degree. But the Lezhgis have a distinctive language, a mixture of Arabic, Turkish and Persian with strong guttural vowels. Azerbaijan officially supports the cultural preservation of its 10 largest ethnic minorities. The Lezghis have weekly newspapers and some elementary school classes in their language. Autonomy is a different question. If the Lezghis succeeded in separating from Azerbaijan, they would set a precedent for other minorities, such as the Talish in the south, the Tats in the nearby mountains and the Avars of eastern Azerbaijan. -- David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | ""How do we explain Turkish troops on S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | the Armenian border, when we can't P.O. Box 382761 | even explain 1915?"" Cambridge, MA 02238 | Turkish MP, March 1992 ",17 "Is a 2 headed Sun 3/60 possible (cgfour0/bwtwo0) I have a Sun 3/60 that has a mono framebuffer (bwtwo0 ?) built on the motherboard. The same system also has a cgfour (cgfour0 and bwtwo1 ?) daughterboard. I have been using this system with a color monitor having a color ""front"" screen from the cgfour, and a mono ""back"" screen from the bwtwo1, both on the same tube. I recentley picked up a 1600 x 1280 Sun mono monitor, and I would like to make a two headed system with the cgfour0 and the bwtwo0. I do not care if I loose the ""back"" screen on the color tube from the bwtwo1. After looking through the Xsun man page I am not sure if this is possible. Has anybody sucessfuly done this before? --Matthew ",5 "Update on Saudi crackdown on human rights league. clarinews@clarinet.com (BAHAA ELKOUSSY) writes: UPI, and the newspapers who are reporting this being all owned by Saudis I wonder how secure they are feeling by reporting all of these things, maybe Saudi Arabia is allowed to have all the human rights violations it can have, nobody is including them in any list,.. those are designed for independent states. > CAIRO, Egypt (UPI) -- The Saudi government ordered the firing and why is this reported from Cairo? >disbarment of six Saudi human rights activists one week after they >formed the country's first human rights group, which has been condemned >by the kingdom's highest religious authorities, Saudi media reported >Friday. > Two Saudi-owned, London-based daily newspapers reported the dismissal >of five of the activists, who last week formed the Committee for the >Protection of Legal Rights in the kingdom to hear allegations of human >rights abuses. > The newspapers said orders were issued to dismiss Abdallah al-Jabreen >from his job with the Iftaa Department, Saudi Arabia's highest religious >advisory body; Hamad al-Seleifeh from the Eduaction Ministry, and >Mohamed al-Muss'eri, Abdallah al-Hamed and Abdallah al-Tuwaijri from two >universities in Riyadh, the Saudi capital. > Licenses to practice as law attorneys were also ordered revoked for >Suleiman al-Marshoudi and al-Muss'eri and their law offices and any >national branches were ordered closed for the same reason. ..... > Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef Ben Abdel Aziz, a member of the >royal family, rejected criticism of human rights violations in the >kingdom. > In an interview broadcast Friday, he said ``nations and organizations >... say they protect human rights or demand respect of human rights'' >but at the same time refuse to intervene in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where >people are ``being killed, raped and destroyed while even barred from >carrying arms.'' > ``Where is the humanity and human rights of which those are talking?'' >the prince said in the interview broadcast by the Saudi-owned, London- >based Middle East Broadcasting Center. Can somebody teach this man some logic? what is the relationship between a human rights league in Saudia and human rights in Bosnia, I guess if we wanted to know what is in Italy, we should know what is in Brasil (Syrian Joke) > Prince Nayef, who controls Saudi police and prisons, said the >kingdom's enforcement of Islamic laws gives his country one of the their claim of following Islamic law is the biggest disservice that they ever did to Islam. ... > But Hosni Amin, executive director of the Cairo-based Arab >Organization for Human Rights, said his group has documented evidence of >human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia. He said the AOHR supported the But how about human rights in Egypt Mr Amin? I guess I am fighting on too many fronts, I might retire very soon :-)) ",17 "_Christianity In Crisis_ by Hank Hanegraaff Has anyone read this important book? If so, what are your feelings about it? Frank -- ""If one wished to contend with Him, he could not answer Him one time out of a thousand."" JOB 9:3 ",15 "And not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures... Source: ""Adventures in the Near East"" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages). (Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 178 (first paragraph) ""In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the existence, although they had been unable to find them."" Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Cable TVI interference In article <1qf44aINNll@rave.larc.nasa.gov>, watson@nimbus.larc.nasa.gov (Catherine Watson) writes: | I gave up after a year of | letters and phone calls. I got the impression the FCC was powerless and it | was up to the cable company to correct the situation. Isn't there some *formal* action a citizen can take that *requires* the FCC to, at least, generate some paperwork? -- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430, Net: witr@rwwa.COM R.W. Withrow Associates, 21 Railroad Ave, Swampscott MA 01907-1821 USA ",12 "Re: Street stories In article <1993Apr23.050442.149681@zeus.calpoly.edu>, sparker@tuba.calpoly.edu (Sean Lawrence Parker) writes: > > I just caught the last bit of the street stories segment on > woman and guns.What caught my eye was that two woman were > shown on the program in mass. and both were carrying > concealed. Can you obtain a CCW in mass.?( for the ordinary citizen ) CCW's are issued at the discretion of the police chief, so it varies town by town. In my town, forget about anything more than ""target and sport"" (carry to and from the gun club / hunting area only) unless you're Mr. Moneybags with Large Daily Deposits. (""Your life isn't worth shit, but your money -- now, that's important."") In other towns, they treat law abiding citizens like adults. Secret game hint: you never know when the rules will be changed -- a change in police chief can throw a town from either side of the board to the other -- fun for the whole family! Some chiefs will grant you a ""personal protection"" permit if you have been attacked or threatened. Some other blue-suited assholes have been known to count this as a NEGATIVE against applicants. It's a crap shoot, and your rights are the stakes. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "CYCLONE AND TEMPEST????? Could someone please post any info on these systems. Thanks. BoB -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Novitskey | ""Pursuing women is similar to banging one's head rrn@po.cwru.edu | against a wall...with less opportunity for reward"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ",4 "Re: I have seen the lobby, and it is us I agree that notifying your elected officials of your feelings on this (and any other, for that matter) issue is the way to go. And by the way, the phone #s on the list posted the other day were all in Washington D.C. -- For most of you, your elected officials will also maintain a local office in your area code. When I 'manage' my elected officials, I use their local office #'s exclusively, and my fax modem and windows-print-capture software are my tool of choice. They see my words as I have stated them, rather than a summary as they would if I called in /voice/ and left a comment with the office staff. -- Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu) Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc. Operations/User Services 1200 Washington Avenue South (612) 626-1888 work Minneapolis, Minnesota 55415 (612) 645-0168 voice mail [DISCLAIMER: MY OPINIONS; NOT MSCI'S] ",11 "Fonts in POV?? I have seen several ray-traced scenes (from MTV or was it RayShade??) with stroked fonts appearing as objects in the image. The fonts/chars had color, depth and even textures associated with them. Now I was wondering, is it possible to do the same in POV?? Thanks, Noel ",1 "Big Brother (Clipper) chip There are some issues which come to mind when one considers the law enforcement aspects of the use of the Big Brother (Clipper) chip. The drug dealers and terrorists aren't going to let themselves be caught by using this type of encryption. In 1985 the New York Times reported that government investigators broke up a narcotics ring that was operating highly sophisticated equipment capable of allowing the leaders of the ring to eavesdrop on the law-enforcement agents who were trying to arrest them. A Mr. Deely, an NSA official, said ""There are a lot of medium-sized countries that would have been proud to have the signals intelligence operation of this group."" For every John Gotti there are probably many more people who have the sophistication to know what the risks of unsecure communications are. The press given to the Big Brother chip will only increase their numbers. Even if there is some benefit to law-enforcement through the use of Big Brother, it must be weighed against the constitutional and civil liberties questions involved. For example, in some areas of the world torture is used as an investigative tool by the local ""law-enforcement"" people. I suspect it is an effective means of obtaining information and shortening many investigations. It probably also helps keep the conviction rate high. The fact that the torture tool is not used in this country (even with a court order obtained by showing ""probable cause"") is because we have rightly balanced the questions of expediency and what is ethically and morally right. I think that the same question of expediency versus morality should come into play when considering the use of Big Brother. I vote for morality. I am quite disturbed by what I interpret as a veiled threat to prohibit the use of all encryption if this Big Brother chip is not put into wide spread use. After a quick reading of the White House press release I came away with that impression. To most of the American public, the word ""hacker"" has rightly or wrongly come to mean ""high tech adolescent vandal"". It has struck me that most of the people posting to sci.crypt regarding this issue are intelligent, thoughtful individuals who have genuine concerns about the privacy and constitutional issues surrounding Big Brother. I hope that the use of Big Brother does not become mandatory and other encryption become illegal. I would hate to see this become some kind of high tech Volstead Act. The high speed digital communications revolution is coming at us with the speed of an SST. The times they are a changing, and just as IBM is learning that they can't do business the same way they have done it for the past 40 years, maybe NSA should evaluate another approach. EFF, who have correctly questioned the cryptographic strength of Big Brother, may need to send a stronger message out regarding the constitutional issues involved. Al Gore may want to think this one through a little more. And as for Dorothy Elizabeth Robling Denning: En quoi cela vous concerne, cheri? ",11 "Re: TIFF complexity In article <9304271755.AA23355@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> you write: >Anyone who thinks that TIFF is too complex hasn't dealt with >CGM, ASN.1, CDA, DCA, SGML, or any one of a number of other >very successful file format. People seem perfectly capable >dealing with these others. Well, yeah, but unlike TIFF they all do substantially more than encode rectangular bitmaps. And the others are hardly trouble free. I hear that it is quite common for CGM implementations not to interoperate. The annoying thing about TIFF is that is that along with the 50 useful options, there are 100 stupid options. The most egregious example is that rather than picking a byte order and bit order and using it consistently in all TIFF files, byte and bit order are options and all TIFF readers on all machines, no matter what their natural byte order, have to be prepared to do byte swapping. There are four slightly different FAX formats -- again, any one of them would have been adequate. RGB images can be stored by pixel or by component, complexity without function, etc, etc. I also note that the TIFF doc says that Aldus' experiments show that LZW reliably compresses as well or better than any of the FAX formats, suggesting that none of the FAX formats are really useful. What's worse, a lot of the formats aren't even implemented very well, e.g., LZW limits code words to 12 bits, while 14 or 16 bits would have provided substantially better compression. And the LZW method compresses bytes rather than pixels. But the absolute worst thing about TIFF is that any vendor can register proprietary TIFF codes and formats without even publicly documenting them. This means that there is NO WAY to write a TIFF reader that can reliably read all incoming TIFF files. Some standard. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl ",1 "Newtek Video Toaster Link For Sale I have a bout a dozen Newtek Video Toaster Links available. These connect Macs and the Video Toaster. List is $595, street price likely to be $495. I can sell them off for $425 including shipping anywhere.. Factory shrinkwrapped. Plus tax if in California. E-mail rebop or call 916 924-9911 M-F 8-5 if you would like further info. All Toaster and Toaster accessories and system components are available as well. -- ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ - Bob Ulius | rebop@well.sf.ca.us | (916) 338-4766 - ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ",6 "Oilers for sale?? Here's one from the mill. The Oilers MIGHT move to Hamilton where Porklington can get a free deal. Given what Labour relations and Puck has been like, it WOULD be a sigh of relief. This WAY w4e can can BOTH elements!! -- Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc.(Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) ) ( yadalle@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca) God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!Remember! Jesus saves lives from eternal damnation! Newfoundland, keep good old Clyde, VOTE LIBERAL! ",10 "Re: does dos6 defragment?? Geoffrey S. Elbo writes: >Yes, and it is the fastest defrag I've ever watched. It did a 170MB >hard disk in 20 minutes. I found the MS defrag looks very much like Norton Speedisk. Is it just a strip-down version of the later? I have both Norton Speedisk and Backup, so I was wondering if I need to install MS Backup? Richard ",2 "Re: (Some info) The DOS/MSW meltdown is progressing nicely In <1993Apr30.145427.11025@bert.eecs.uic.edu> zmola@bert.eecs.uic.edu (Carl Zmola) writes: > Sombody's data is wrong. Since Mac OS, Finder, Systerm >or whatever you want to call it doesn't appear in the first >survey, I tend to doubt their results more. Just because >sombody wrote it doesn't mean its correct. Note that the two tables don't talk about the same population. One is Fortune 1000 companies favoring the platform as their primary application platform, the other is sales (to everyone, not just Fortune 1000). Fortune 1000 companies don't do a lot of development with the Mac as their top platform. I would expect that that would explain the discrepancy. -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",2 "Stealth VRAM sale item: A brand new Stealth VRAM Hi-Color card w/ 1meg display price : $135 It comes with: install disk Turbo windows 3.x drivers /w 24bit color Halo Desktop Imager (24bit) for windows 3.x Advanced AutoCAD accelerator (includes Big Picture) a complete manual If interested, please e-mail sunbum@cory.berkeley.edu thanks ",6 "Re: Serbian genocide Work of God? On 23-Apr-93 in Serbian genocide Work of God? user James Sledd@ssdc.sas.upe writes: >Are the governments of the United States and Europe not moving >to end the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs because the targets are >muslims? Bingo - that and there's no oil there. On 23-Apr-93 in Serbian genocide Work of God? user James Sledd@ssdc.sas.upe writes: >Are the Serbs doing the work of God? Hmm... If this is the ""work of god"" then I'm doubly glad that I don't worship him. David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a Mechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and Carnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland! ====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D===== Email: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my ""Piled Higher and Deeper"" It will be a great day when scientists and engineers have all the R&D money they need and religions have to beg for money to pay the priest. ",15 "Re: Being right about messiahs In article 2262@geneva.rutgers.edu, Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca (Desiree Bradley) writes: > I must have missed the postings about Waco, David Koresh, and the Second > Coming. How does one tell if a Second Coming is the real thing, unless the > person claiming to be IT is obviously insane? First by his fruits. The messiah comes to build the kingdom of heaven on the earth. He also comes to first reveal the root cause of original sin (fallen nature) and then provide a means to cut the connection to that original sin. He also wants to create world peace based on Godism. The messiah's teachings will build on the foundation of the Bible but provide profound new insights into the nature of God, the fall of man, the purpose of creation, and God's providence of restoration. It will also provide a foundation for the unity of all the World's religions. Many Christians expect Jesus to come on literal clouds, so they may miss him when he returns. Just as the Jewish people missed Jesus 2000 years ago. They are still waiting for his first coming. The Jewish people of that age expected Elijah to come first. Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. But John the Baptist denied that he was Elijah. (How did this reflect on Jesus?) Later in prison John even questioned who Jesus was: ""is he the one who is to come or do we look for another"". (see book of Matthew) > > I'm not saying that David Koresh is the Second Coming of Christ. How could > somebody who breaks his word be the Second Coming? Koresh did promise that > he would come out of his compound if only he was allowed to give a radio > broadcast. He didn't. Still it seems to me that he did fool some people. David Koresh didn't even come close. The problem is that people like this make it difficult for people to believe and trust in the real Messiah when he does show up. > > And, from my meagre knowledge of the Bible, it seems that Christians have > been hard on the Jews of Christ's day for being cautious about accepting > somebody that their religious authorities didn't accept as the Messiah. > > So I was surprised that nobody had discussed the difficulty of wanting to be > early to recognize the Second Coming while, at the same time, not wanting to > be credulously believing just anybody who claims to be God. Very good point and perhaps the most important point of all for Christians: How to recognize the Second Coming? The Messiah should not claim to be God. What sets a Messiah apart is that he is born without original sin. He is not born perfect but achieves perfection after a period of growth. Adam and Eve were born sinless but they fell, and this tragedy meant that it would take God thousands of years to create the kingdom of heaven on the earth as God originally intended. God's restoration providence is still not complete. The messiah is the true Son of God, one with God, God's representative on the earth, but not God himself. There is only one God. > [Mark 13:21 And then if any one says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' > or 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it. ... > Mark 13:26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with > great power and glory. > My understanding of Jesus' answer is that, unlike his first coming, > which was veiled, the second coming will be quite unmistakeable. > By the way, from Koresh's public statement it's not so clear to me > that he is claiming to be Christ. Who else in this world is claiming to be the Messiah. Maybe he's already here. Mike ",15 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In <1qkq9t$66n@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp writes: (Attempting to define 'objective morality'): > I'll take a wild guess and say Freedom is objectively valuable. I base > this on the assumption that if everyone in the world were deprived utterly > of their freedom (so that their every act was contrary to their volition), > almost all would want to complain. So long as you keep that ""almost"" in there, freedom will be a mostly valuable thing, to most people. That is, I think you're really saying, ""a real big lot of people agree freedom is subjectively valuable to them"". That's good, and a quite nice starting point for a moral system, but it's NOT UNIVERSAL, and thus not ""objective"". > Therefore I take it that to assert or > believe that ""Freedom is not very valuable"", when almost everyone can see > that it is, is every bit as absurd as to assert ""it is not raining"" on > a rainy day. It isn't in Sahara. -- Disclaimer? ""It's great to be young and insane!"" ",0 "HP Laser Jet 4L and Windows Has anybody had a chance to find out how the new HP Laser Jet 4L behaves with Windows ? Daniel Royer ",2 "Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros aezpete@deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu () writes: >>can't imagine what it's like to have a penis, much less a foreskin. I >>guess if American medicine did an artistic job of circumcising every >>male, then the visual result would be somewhat more natural in >>appearance... >> >>The penile cancer thing has been *completely* debunked...she must be >>going to school on a South Pacific island. Tell her to check the Journal >>or Urology for circumcision articles. I remember at least 1 on an old >>Jewish man (cut at birth) who developed penile cancer....I mean, if the >>cancer risk was that great, the Europe who have been circumcising like >>crazy, too. Teaching a boy how to keep his cockhead clean is the issue: a >>little proper hygiene goes a long way - Americans are just too hung up on >>the penis to consider cleaning it: that's just way too much like >>mastubation. So you have surgical intervention that is basically >>unnecessary. >Peter Schlumpf >University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign First off, use some decent terms if ya don't mind. This is sci.med, not alt.sex. Secondly, how absolutely bogus to assume that ""American's are just too hung up on the penis....blah,blah"". I think most American's don't care about anything so comlicated as that. They just think it ""looks nicer"". Ask a few of them and see what response you get. Others still opt for circumcision due to religious traditions and beliefs. Some think it is easier to clean. Still others do it because ""Daddy was"". Dont' be so naive as to think American's are afraid of sexuality. My son is not circumcised, and I can vouch for the argument that it is more difficult to keep clean than a circumcised kids'. Not so much that the foreskin is difficult to pull back (it isn't) but because my son doesn't want to wait long enough for a thorough check for smega or misplaced feces. So, many times it just gets a once over dab. It worries me that he might get an infection due to his lack of cooperation. I am sure, however, that he will be able to handle cleaning under the foreskin himself once he is old enough. Until, there is always the decision at each diaper change...is this the time to clean or can we wait till next time. ",13 "Oakleys' for sale; items wanted Heya all, I've got a pair of Oakley forsale There are frogskins, with aurborn red. THere are no scratches and only used them once or twice last summer. I'm looking for about 25-30 dollars but please give me a bid. I'm am looking for the following items A BUBBLE JET PRINTER that works and is el cheapo... i was looking for a cannon BJ-5 but if u have a bubble jet to sell please tell me. I'm looking to spend about $100 or so. A sound cards (sound blaster compatible). Again I'm looking fer something cheap, such as $50 or so dollars. thanks whirley Address ""whirley@sage.cc.purdue.edu"" ",6 "Trade rumor: Montreal/Ottawa/Phillie TSN Sportsdesk just reported that the OTTAWA SUN has reported that Montreal will send 4 players + $15 million including Vin Damphousse and Brian Bellows to Phillidelphia, Phillie will send Eric Lindros to Ottawa, and Ottawa will give it's first round pick to Montreal. If this is true, it will most likely depend on whether or not Ottawa gets to choose 1st overall. Can Ottawa afford Lindros' salary? Personally, I can't see Philli giving up Lindros -- for anything. They didn't give away that much to Quebec just to trade him away again. Not to mention that Lindros seems to be a *huge* draw in Phillie -- and that he represents a successful future for the franchise. Ottawa may be better off taking the 4 players +$15 from Montreal for the pick. Stephen Legge SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca ",10 "Fujitsu and Seagate IDE Drive Compatibility I've been trying to get my Fujitsu M2611T 45mb hard disk (circa 1990) to share my IDE card with a new Seagate ST3283A 245mb one. I've tried fiddling the jumpers to set the master and slave drives without any success [without the table of hard drive specs from this newsgroup I couldn't have got that far]. Has anyone else got this combination to work. The place I got the new one muttered something like ""Hmmm Fujitsu, nice drives, not very compatible."" He'll let me swap the Seagate for another brand but he thought it was more a problem with the Fujitsu. So has anyone got a similar Fujitsu drive to work with another cheapish disk ... or want to buy a cute and cuddly little Fujitsu drive ? Andrew Henry bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk ",3 "Fortune-guzzler barred from bars! Saw this in today's newspaper: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FORTUNE-GUZZLER BARRED FROM BARS -------------------------------- Barnstaple, England/Reuter A motorcyclist said to have drunk away a $290,000 insurance payment in less than 10 years was banned Wednesday from every pub in England and Wales. David Roberts, 29, had been awarded the cash in compensation for losing a leg in a motorcycle accident. He spent virtually all of it on cider, a court in Barnstaple in southwest England was told. Judge Malcolm Coterill banned Roberts from all bars in England and Wales for 12 months and put on two years' probation after he started a brawl in a pub. -- Bruce Clarke B.C. Environment e-mail: bclarke@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ",8 "Re: Screw the people, crypto is for hard-core hackers & spooks only In article warlord@MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) writes: > >The point here is not the specific instance of the Wiretap Chip. >Rather, it is like having the government telling you that they want a >copy of your house key, safe-deposit box keys, etc., and telling you >that ""they wont use them unless its totally neccessary."" I sure >wouldn't want that. Why should encryption be any different? Actually the govrnment is telling you that if you want to use their ""product"" the manufacturer (actually better yet, some ""trusted"" pair of escrow agencies) has to have the key. Most of us already are in this situation--our car makers have keys to our cars (or can get them quickly from the VIN number), and I have no doubt that if presented with a court order, they'd surrender copies to the government. Chances are that many locksmiths have the code numbers for house locks they've installed, and in an emergency can cut keys; thus they'd also provide such keys to the government pursuant to a court order. The state has no difficulty gaining access to your safe deposit box if they have a court order. Bad analogy. This is not to argue for or against the proposal, but rather better distinctions are required in thinking about it than ""house key, safe-deposit keys, etc."". David -- David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of our information, errors and omissions excepted. ",11 "20 Playboy Magazines --> 1987 - 1992 My roommate left me his Playboy collection which he no longer wants, so I'm offering them to the general public. (THAT'S YOU!) MAKE AN OFFER FOR THE *ENTIRE COLLECTION* I will accept the best offer. (Offer does *NOT* include cheapest method of shipping from Bethlehem, PA) 1992: February (Supermodel Rachel Williams, World Tour, & POM Tanya Beyer) 1991: May (Shannon & Tracy Tweed & POM Carrie Jean Yazel) July (Tall girls, Miss Bulgaria, & POM Wendy Kaye) September (Barbi twins & POM Samantha Dorman) November (La Toya Jackson & POM Tonja Marie Christensen) December (Dian Parkinson from ""The Price is Right"" & POM Wendy Hamilton) 1990: July (Sharon Stone, Marilyn look-alike, & POM Jacqueline Sheen) October (Girls of the Big West, Gladiator Marisa Pare, & POM Brittany York) November (Teri Copley from ""We Got It Made"", Sex in Cinema, & POM Lorraine Olivia, stewardess) 1989: January (35th Anniversary Issue - Collector's Edition) February (Year in Sex, Rio's Grand, & POM Simone Eden) March (La Toya Jackson & POM Laurie Wood) August (Women of Wall St., Diana Lee from ""License to Kill"", & POM Gianna Amore) November (Donna Mills, Sex in Cinema '89, & POM Renee Tenison) 1988: August (Sunshine Girls & POM Helle Michaelsen) October (Girls of the Southwest Conference & POM Shannon Long) November (Women of Washington, Sex in Cinema '88, & POM Pia Reyes) December (Playmate Review, Sex Stars of '88, Lysette Anthony, & POM Kata Karkkainen) 1987: November (Jessica Hahn, Sex in Cinema '87, & POM Pam Stein) Also: *** Special Edition: ""Playboy Presents: 100 Beautiful Women"" *** -- ____________________________ BSME/MBA looking for a job....hiring? / | *----------------------------------------* E-mail: jwg0@Lehigh.edu | | Take a walk on the Wild side...Biffman Lehigh University /o)\ | *----------------------------------------* Bethlehem, PA USA \(o/ | J o H n G e W a R t O w S k I \____________________________| ",6 "Re: Stop The SeXularHumanistOppression { former my beloved Damn Ferigner' Marc.Steinkoenig@f4567.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Marc Steinkoenig) writes: >*** Quoting Drieux, Just Drieux to All dated 04-11-93 *** >> >> My point, if it alluded you, is that as LONG >> as the USA remains in the State of REBELLION >> against God's Divinely APPOINTED Vicar over >> these colonies, what more can YOU expect from >> PaganIdolators Alienated From God's Wonderful Plan??? >> >> >> ] > obGeoPoliticalContext: I was Pleased that the >> ] > restoration of the Bourbon de Bourbon's to >What tree did you just climb down from, the church is an opressive farce which >destroys cultures. I'm not knocking religious ""morality"", but I think that >Americans take their religion TOO SERIOUSLY to the point of trying to convert >anyone or anything to their particular sect. It's a question of power and not >salvation... All monotheistic religions breed intoleraance into their flock >(Islam, Judaism, AND CHRISTIANITY). Religion is not the opiate of the masses, >fanaticism is and brother, it lookes like you're pretty hopped up on your own >self-rightousness. never heard of arguement by absurdity, eh no? Also called sarcasm. The usual procedure is to accept some part of the 'oppositions' arguement and run with it until one goes beyond 'rational thought' and then ring the changes. z.B. The idea of a minimum wage is considered a good one. And in these times of economic difficulty, the Washington legislature is propossing to raise the State MinWage from $4.25 (the federal level) to $4.90 (fifteen cents over Oregon's). It would seem to me that this increase does not keep pace with inflation, that the minimum wage should be to $6.08 by my figures, so it is proposed that we raise the minimum wage to $6.50 per hour by 1 July and then give a 10% cost of living increase every 4 July. and anyone who doesn't like it is obviously a country club republican getting rich off the exploitation of poor people. chus pyotr -- pyotr@halcyon.com Sometimes Pyotr Filipivich, sometimes Owl. OPTIMIST: Bagpiper with a beeper. ",18 "Creating FLI/FLC Animation Files? I am looking for a means to add FLI and FLC animation creation to a Windows application. I was hoping for something along the lines of AAWIN or AAPLAY by Autodesk but for the creation of these delta compressed animations. I have FLILIB but this seems to be coded for the Large memory model of DOS with Turbo C. Ideally I would like a DLL or Medium model object library, but would settle for anything, really. I've seen other Windows apps with FLI/FLC creation, did they hack the FLILIB code into submission? Any pointers would be appreciated, please send mail directly to me and I will summarize the results if there is interest. - Andrew Hudson abh@genesis.nred.ma.us ",1 "Re: Chaining IDE drives In article , badry@cs.UAlberta.CA (Badry Jason Theodore) writes: > Hi. I am trying to set up a Conner 3184 and a Quantum 80AT drive. I have > the conner set to the master, and the quantum set to the slave (doesn't work > the other way around). I am able to access both drives if I boot from a > floppy, but the drives will not boot themselves. I am running MSDOS 6, and > have the Conner partitioned as Primary Dos, and is formatted with system > files. I have tried all different types of setups, and even changed IDE > controller cards. If I boot from a floppy, everything works great (except > the booting part :)). The system doesn't report an error message or anything, > just hangs there. Does anyone have any suggestions, or has somebody else > run into a similar problem? I was thinking that I might have to update the bios > on one of the drives (is this possible?). Any suggestions/answers would be > greatly appreciated. Please reply to: > > Jason Badry > badry@cs.ualberta.ca > Make sure that the hard disk you want to boot from is set as active (using the FDISK program that comes with DOS). -- Mark ______________________________________________________________________________ mark@uk.ac.ox.physchem ",3 "Re: AMD i486 clones: Now legal in US?!?!?! poe@wharton.upenn.edu writes: >A friend of mine called me on the phone and told me he was wathcing CNN >and saw a report that the ruling prohibiting AMD from selling their i486 >clones has been thrown out, making it legal for AMD to ship in the US. >Can anyone out there verify this? >Thanks in advance >Phil Yep, this was on the news. Great news for consumers. Bad news for Intel. ",3 "Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time In article cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes: > Wasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he >could see where he was backing up??? Although reverse lights on the sides No. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They aren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail lights. >are useful for telling whether cars are backing up out perpendicular to the >path of the car, I don't think warnings were their original intents, since they >are colored white. Well, red and orange were already taken. Maybe white defines the direction that the car is moving in. If you really want to be able to see behind you, get some fog lamps for the back of the car. These work very well - and are a good way to get rid of tailgaters if you get that rush of testosterone. Craig > > > >-- >Chintan Amin mail: llama@uiuc.edu >******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981***************************** >*""Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice* >*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand""* ",7 "Re: Powerbook Duo Memory system -- SLOW In article <1993Apr23.060059.7894@leland.Stanford.EDU> avery@gestalt.Stanford.EDU (Avery Wang) writes: > Hi- > Do any of you hardware gurus out there know what kind of memory architecture > Apple uses in the powerbook Duos? Or in the powerbook in general? > > What are the factors that make the Duo 210 so slow compared to a desktop > machine running the same processor at the same speed (25MHz 68030)? How many > wait states are in the memory system, etc? What kind of a data bus does it > use? 32-bit or 16-bit? > Huh? Where did you get this idea from? I think you got this backwards. The Duo's memory is faster than its equivalent desktop machine by 5-10% (and the rest of the powerboks). I think the explanation for this was that it can refresh faster (in 2 instead of 5 cycles I believe). Things that could affect performance would be factors such as use of functions enhanced in the FPU (which the Duo doesn't have undocked). Extensions and background applications can slow your computer down too. Real life differences in speed are likely to be influence by the software you are running, what kind of screen depth you are running etc. Espen PS! The Duo is 32-bit through-out. ",4 "Re: Deir Yassin Are you trying to say that there were no massacres in Deir Yassin or in Sabra and Shatila? If so then let me tell you some good jokes: There is not and was not any such thing like jewish killing in WWII Palestinians just did what Davidians did for fourty years and more. In fact no one was killed in any war at any time or any place. People die that is all. No one gets killed. Maybe also vietamiese didn't die in Vietnam war killed by american napalm they were just pyromaniacs and that's all. Maybe jews just liked gas chambers and no one forced them to get in there.they may be thought it was like snifing cocaine. No? What do you think of this ? Isn't it stupid to say so? Well it is as stupid as what you said .Next time you want to lie do it intelligently. Sincerely yours. Hassan ",17 "DeConcini -- ten years ago and today Dennis Deconcini, 1982 ...In these and similar areas, the Bureau has violated not only the dictates of common sense, but of 5 U.S.C. Sec 552, which was intended to prevent ""secret lawmaking"" by administrative bodies. These practices, amply documented in hearings before this Sub- committee, leave little doubt that the Bureau has disregarded rights guaranteed by the constitution and laws of the United States. It has trampled upon the second amendment by chilling exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by law-abiding citizens. It has offended the fourth amendment by unreasonably search- ing and seizing private property. It has ignored the Fifth Amendment by taking private property without just compensation and by entrapping honest citizens with- out regard for their right to due process of law. The rebuttal presented to the Subcommittee by the Bureau was utterly unconvincing. Richard Davis, speaking on behalf of the Treasury Department, asserted vaguely that the Bureau's priorities were aimed at prosecuting willful violators, particularly felons ille- gally in possession, and at confiscating only guns actually likely to be used in crime. He also asserted that the Bureau has recently made great strides toward achieving these priorities. No documen- tation was offered for either of these assertions. In hearings before BATF's Appropriations Subcommittee, however, expert evidence was submitted establishing that approximately 75 percent of BATF gun prosecutions were aimed at ordinary citizens who had neither criminal intent nor knowledge, but were enticed by agents into unknowning technical violations. ( Exerpt from: 97th Congress; 2d Session COMMITTEE PRINT T H E R I G H T T O K E E P A N D B E A R A R M S REPORT of the SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION of the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY UNITED STATES SENATE NINETY-SEVENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION FEBRUARY, 1982 Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 88-618 O WASHINGTON : 1982 Letter to Constituent: April 1993 Thank you for contacting me regarding the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), which is the Federal law enforcement agency with jurisdiction over firearms violations and regulations. It has been my experience as chairman of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service and General Government which funds ATF, that ATF is one of the most competent and highly professional law enforcement agencies in the Federal government. The agents of ATF have proven their value again and again in successful, legal operations to curb the unlawful possession and use of firearms, especially in the area of drug-related crimes. It enforces the Armed Career Criminal Act which calls for mandatory minimum sentences for repeat felons using firearms to carry out an illegal activity. The Bureau has made itself a key component in preventing gang related violence, also, both by educating at-risk youth to the dangers of gang membership as well a s by depriving known gangs from access to weapons. The Waco, Texas case involved the execution of search warrants by ATF on the Branch Davidians for illegal firearms and explosives possession (automatics, semi-automatics, and machine-guns, in addition to bombs and other explosives.) In virtually every gun case, ATF is asked to trace weapons through its' National Firearms Tracing Center, where they keep all dealer and Federal firearms license information. ATF is the Federal governments' firearms expert and routinely works with state and local police to execute warrants. ATF, working with state and local law enforcement in Texas and the U.S. Attorneys' office felt it was necessary to execute these warrants in order to legally establish that a crime had been committed and conclude a long and thorough investigation of illegal gun and explosives held by members of the Branch Davidians. In addition, ATF carefully selected a Sunday morning, knowing from their source, inside, that the men would be separated from the women and children and not in the area where it was known that the illegal weapons were stored. As you may be aware by now, Vernon Howell a.k.a. David Koresh spiritual leader of the Branch Davidians was tipped of the impending execution of the search warrants. Unfortunately, ATF lost the element of surprise and the cult was able to arm themselves and prepare for ATFs' entry into the compound. Once a hostage situation presented itself, the ATF asked the FBI to become involved since the FBI is skilled in hostage negotiations. In addition, and military tanks were brought in due to the serious nature of the situation and firepower of the Branch Davidians. Based on what I have learned about ATF's role in the Branch Davidian raid, I believe the agency acted responsibly. I am, however, deeply saddened by the loss of lives of the 4 law enforcement agents who attempted to enter the compound and the civilian members of the cult. I fully expect the Department of Treasury to conduct a thorough evaluation with representatives from law enforcement outside the Department to be headed by the Assistant Secretary for Enforcement. In addition, ATF will conduct its' own review of the Waco operation. I look forward to reviewing the findings of the evaluators and hope this situation in Waco will be brought to a quick and peaceful conclusion. Sincerely, Dennis DeConcini Chairman Subcommittee on Treasury, Postal Service and General Government April 7, 1993 -- Larry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com ",16 "Re: Clipper considered harmful [Restated and amplified] In article ""Jon C. R. Bennett"" writes: > > >strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: >> If the crooks use an innocent person's clipper phone on the tapped line >> there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just >> that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the >> serial number, get the keys, and they are in business. >> >> No clipper chip to person association is ever needed. > >celular phones........... Direction-finding and directional monitoring receivers. Can you say ""little black bakery truck""? :-) David > >jon -- David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of our information, errors and omissions excepted. ",11 "Re: Smullyanism for the day..... In article <1r8tpi$4pu@dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM> geoff@East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top) writes: >[This Raymond Smullyan quote is too big for a .sig, but deserves posting IMHO.] To big for a .sig? No way! Keith "" Home of the billdboard .sig files "" Ryan =) --- Private note to Jennifer Fakult. ""This post may contain one or more of the following: sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume all of the above. The owners of this account do not take any responsiblity for your own confusion which may result from your inability to recognize any of the above. Read at your own risk, Jennifer."" ",0 "Re: extraordinary footpeg engineering exb0405@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au wrote: : Okay DoD'ers, here's a goddamn mystery for ya ! Oh goody! I love a puzzle. Watson! The games afoot! : Today I was turning a 90 degree corner just like on any other day, but there : was a slight difference- a rough spot right in my path caused the suspension : to compress in mid corner and some part of the bike hit the ground with a very : tangible ""thunk"". I pulled over at first opportunity to sus out the damage. : Okay all you engineering types, how the f**k do you explain this ? How can you : rip a tightly fitting steel thread out of a threaded hole (in alloy) without : damaging the thread in the hole ? Is this some sort of hi-tech design thingo Let me guess. You were making a left turn, correct? The edge of the stud contacting the road caused it to turn and unthread itself. If you had been making a right turn it would have tightened the stud. -- ******************************************************************************* * Bill Ranck (703) 231-9503 Bill.Ranck@vt.edu * * Computing Center, Virginia Polytchnic Inst. & State Univ., Blacksburg, Va. * ******************************************************************************* ",8 "Compiling ghostview under Sun OpenWindows 3 Due it seems to Sun's crapulous organisation of the X libraries and includes, most standard (GNU and other) software won't compile out of the box (well, tar file). Right now I'm trying to make ghostview. It complains it can't find X11/XaW/... so I just linked (ln -s) the files from /usr/openwin/share/include/X11 and now the ghoddam thing _still_ complains it can't find them. I still haven't been able to compile xdvi, not no way. Has anyone _ever_ managed to get _anything_ normal to compile on a Sun (SunOS 4.1.3 and OpenWindows 3)? What's the trick I'm missing? I've even tried hard copying all the relevant files into the ""right"" places and every time, there's some bit missing or it refuses to find it. ///Peter ",5 "Re: The doctrine of Original Sin [Eugen Bigelow writes: >It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no >argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John >10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus >that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the >OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51 >taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say >Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture. You should remember that in Adam's transgression, all men and women sinned, as Paul wrote. All of humanity cooperativley reblled against God in Adma's sin, thus, all are subject to it, and the sin is transmitted from generation to generation. Andy Byler] Andy, I did not write the above paragraph. I believe this is about the 3rd time someone else's words have been attributed to me. I can't speak for the rest of humanity, but I did not cooperatively rebell against anything. ",15 "Re: Fundamentalism - again. In article khan0095@nova.gmi.edu (Mohammad Razi Khan) writes: >One of my biggest complaints about using the word ""fundamentalist"" >is that (at least in the U.S.A.) people speak of muslime >fundamentalists ^^^^^^^muslim >but nobody defines what a jewish or christan fundamentalist is. >I wonder what an equal definition would be.. >any takers.. The American press routinely uses the word fundamentalist to refer to both Christians and Jews. Christian fundementalists are often refered to in the context of anti-abortion protests. The American media also uses fundamentalist to refer to Jews who live in Judea, Samaria or Gaza, and to any Jew who follows the torah. Adam Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu ""If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."" -John Perry Barlow ",17 "HAROLD CAMPING Have any of you read Harold Camping's book ""1994?""? It's about biblical evidenc that points to September of 1994 as the probable time of Christ's second coming It's a very informative book and a must read for all Christians. You can get i at your local bookstore for only $14.95. Peace! [no! not again! --clh] ",15 "Re: Mosque in Jewish quarter (was Re: Israeli destruction of...) In article bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes: >I always believed the statement 'those who do not know their history >are condemned to repeat it (Will Durant ?), but I am beginning to >believe the opposite is true. > >Here in t.p.m and in other newsgroups it seems that history is >mainly remembered to foment hatred or to be used as a club. In the >history of my own people there are ample acts of shame, both done >by my people and done to my people. Since I was not party to any >of those acts, I refuse to accept blame for the evil acts that my >ancestors committed, nor do I direct hatred toward the descendants >of those who committed evil acts against my ancestors. The obsession with discussions of past (or present) events seems to be largely centered on trying to ""prove"" that ""they"" are worse than ""us"". As we see over and over, that leads nowhere except to make ourselves feel superior. It's as if we've become addicted to periodic injections of ""self-affirmation"" that draw their power from denigration of the ""other"" and romanticization of ourselves. The hope is that we will begin sometime to apply these discussions in some way towards consideration of how to defuse the situation, advancement of negotiations and the search for common ground between the parties involved. Of course, for this to happen we can't believe that the best path to *making ourselves feel better* is at the expense of others. As long as those valuing the coming together of ""opposing"" parties do not pursue their vision with the same passion as do those polarization specialists, we will stay stuck in the circus of one-upsmanship we now have. We're getting precisely what we are willing to work for. > >Shalom, Salam, and Peace > -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "Re: Can I Change ""Licensed To"" Data in Windows 3.1? In article <1993Apr15.180633.3437@trintex.uucp>, charles@tinman.dev.prodigy.com () writes: >Have you tried re-installing the software? Otherwise I would be dubious about >simple ways to change that screen. Is it not designed to be an embarassment to >would be pirates? > ahh, yes, this is a fun topic. No, once the name is incribed on the disk, that is it, it is encoded. Not even a HEX editor will find it. You can write over the ""Licensed to:"", but you can't change the name underneth it. I think if you wish to change this you would have to be a pirate, and we're not going to promote that here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Robert S. Dubinski | Aliases include: Robb, Regal, Sir, Mr., and I | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Marquette University ||||||||||| Math / Computer Science Double-Major| ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Internet Address: 2A42Dubinski.vms.csd.mu.edu | Milwaukee, WI | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",2 "Re: NHL team leaders in +/- In article <1993Mar29.190650.28940@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes: >The Jets use the ""breakaway pass"" scheme to create a scoring sensation >in order to generate interest. If teams score as many or more goals >against Winnipeg when Selanne is on the ice as Winnipeg scores when >he is on the ice then I can't see how his contribution can be described >as impressive. Implicitly you are assuming that goals scored against Winnipeg with Selanne on the ice can be blamed on him...Roger, he is a FORWARD. Winnipeg has a lousy defensive record anyway. Let's put it another way. John Cullen's +/- is terrible. What's your excuse for him? That his powerplay points don't count? Neither do Selanne's... >The object of the game is not to feed Selanne - it is >to win. And feeding Selanne does not contribute in any meaningful way >to winning. Knowledgeable hockey observers the world over would agree that feeding Selanne so he can score does contribute in a meaningful way to winning. >Pat Burns wouldn't have a goal suck like this on his team. You're worried about Teemu when you have Glenn Anderson on your team? >We DON'T KNOW what Selanne does best. We do know what Jet's management >wants. And again, the object of the exercise is not to allow Selanne to >do what he does best, it is to win hockey games. What he does best is score...so I refer you to my comment above. >As it is now, Selanne >is a grandstanding goal suck. Did you see the way he parades around >with his arms outstretched after scoring a goal? You would think the >Messiah had returned... Nope, didn't see it. I was too busy watching Foligno jump up and down after _his_ goal.... ",10 "ForSale 286 and Hard-drive Packer Bell 12MHZ 286 * 5 16bit expansion slots * 2 5.25"" external drive bays (floppies) * 1 3.5"" internal drive bay (hard-drive) * 1.44MB 3.5"" floppy drive * 1MB of RAM $140 or Best offer (including shipping) Segate 32MB ST138N SCSI Hard-drive * Great shape * Controller * 32MB * 3.5"" format $85 or best offer (including shipping) ",6 "Kubota Kenai/Denali specs Okay, I got enough replies about the Kubota Kenai/Denali systems that I will post a summary of their capabilities. I haven't actually used one or seen one, so take the specs with a grain of salt. I'd like to see an independent review of one against, say, an SGI Indigo Extreme or something. Basically, the Kenai workstations are DEC Alpha AXP based workstations that run OSF/1 ( DEC's ) and will likely run Windows NT in the future. They are binary compatible with Digital's OSF/1 Alpha AXP implementation. Denali is their graphics subsystem, which is upgradable in the field by simply adding ""transformation engines"". The two main Kenai machines are the 3400 Imaging and 3D Graphics Workstation and the 3500 Imaging and 3D Graphics Workstation. 3400 3500 CPU DEC Alpha AXP 133MHz DEC Alpha AXP 150MHz On-chip cache 8k/8k 8k/8k Onboard cache 512K 512K Word Size 64-bit 64-bit Memory ( initial ) 32-128MB 32-256MB Memory ( future ) 512MB 1GB SPECMARK89 111 126 SPECINT92 75 84 SPECFP92 112 128 GRAPHICS Transform Modules 1-6 1-6 Frame Buffer Modules 5,10,20 5,10,20 Frame Buffer 1280x1024x24bit 1280x1024x24bit double buffered double buffered Z-buffer 24-bit 24-bit Alpha/stencil 8-bit 8-bit Stereo support yes yes Other: both machines will double buffer or do stereo output per window. Both have an auxiliary video output that is RS-170A, NTSC, and PAL STORAGE Internal-fixed 2 3.5"" 4 3.5"" Internal-removable 1 5.25"" 2 5.25"" Max capacity 9.5GB 11.6 GB IO Both have TurboChannel 100MB/sec, SCSI-2, Ethernet, and FDDI APPLICATION PROGRAMMING INTERFACES Both have libraries for Xlib, Motif, MIT PEXlib, DEC-PEXlib DEC-PHIGS, and GL Okay, now the real stuff. The Kenai stations work with a graphics architecture known as Denali. The Denali comes in three models, the E, P, and V. They use a DECchip 21064 superscalar RISC processor at 150MHz. Their capabilities are as follows: E P V 2D Vectors 800-200K 2000-3800K 4000-4800K 3D Vectors #1 350-1100K 1100-1800K 1800-2100K 3D Vectors #2 300-1000K 1000-1600K 1600-1900K 3D Vectors #3 300-500K 800-1000K 1300-1400K 3D Triangles, #4 200-500K 600-1000K 1000-1200K 3D Triangles, #5 100-200K 300-400K 500-600K #1: 10 pixel, flat shaded, connected #2: 10 pixel, Gouraud shaded, connected #3: 10 pixel, 2-pixel wide, anti-aliased, connected #4: 50-pixel, Gouraud shaded, Z-buffered, strip #5: 50-pixel, texture mapped, persp., point sampled IMAGE PROCESSING Cine loop - 8-bit 15-36Mp/s 37-58 Mp/s 60-68 Mp/s Cine loop - 16-bit 14 Mp/s 25 Mp/s 38 Mp/s Cine loop - 24-bit 12-21 Mp/s 21 Mp/s 21 Mp/s Contrast stretching #1 14 Mp/s 25 Mp/s 20 Mp/s Bilinear zoom 6 Mp/s 11 Mp/s 20 Mp/s Trilinear interp#2 -- 6 Mvoxels/s 11 Mvoxels/s #1: Lookup table -- 12-,16-bit to 8 #2: Trilinear interpolation, 8-bit voxels CONFIGURATIONS Frame Buffer Modules 5 10 20 Transform Engine Mod. 1-3 3-5 5-6 As you can see, these are pretty powerful workstations, and the best part is the pricing. I would recommend that you call Kubota for more information. Their number is 408-727-8100. I'm sure they'll send you an information you may want. Oh, some prices: Low-end Kenai 3400, E Series w/ 1 TEM and 5 FBM --- 27,795 dollars U.S. Kenai 3500, E Series w/ 1 TEM and 5 FBM --- 45,345 dollars U.S. High-end Kenai 3400, V Series w/ 6 TEM and 20 FBM -- 61,795 dollars U.S. Kenai 3500, V Series w/ 6 TEM and 20 FBM -- 79,345 dollars U.S. If someone could post a relative comparision with an Indigo Extreme or something I would appreciate it. Hope this helps someone out there, Brian PS I am not affiliated with Kubota in any way. Hell, I thought they made tractors or something. :-) ",1 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? OK, I'VE GOT IT!!!!! Let's fight guns with guns. Yeah, that would help. ",19 "Re: Numerical Nothingness In article <1993Apr18.140401.18439@freenet.carleton.ca> ad684@Freenet.carleton.ca (Bob Wilson) writes: > >Mario averaged 2.66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 >points per game ... the Antigretz Gretzky averaged 2.69 pts/game >Mario projected over 80 games. >213 points (beats Wayne's record by 1) Check your information before posting, Gretzky's record is 215 pts in 80 games. >Over 84 games 97 g + 127 a = 224 points. > Over 84 games, Gretzky's total projected 226 points. >Pitt's winning percentage with Mario (45-10-5) over 84 games >-> 133 points. Would this have been a record? >I know Mtl had 132 one year. The 76-77 Canadiens had .825 percentage, 132 pts in 80 games. (60-8-12). The 29-30 Bruins had a .875 winning percentage. Also the 77-78 Canadiens had a .806 percentage with a 59-10-11 record. >Bob Wilson >ad684@freenet.carleton.ca %*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* * __ ______________ ____________________________________ % % \ \_)____________/ A L L E Z L E S B L U E S ! ! ! * * \ __________/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ % % \ ________/ * * \ _______/ Joe Ashkar % % \ \ Contact for the Blues * * \ \ SAINT LOUIS jca2@cec1.wustl.edu % % (___) BLUES * *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% ",10 "HR 1276 (""A gun law I can live with!"" :-) 103D CONGRESS 1ST SESSION H. R. 1276 To establish the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right. ======================= IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES March 10, 1993 Mr. BARTLETT introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary ======================= A BILL To establish the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representa- tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the ""Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 1993"". SEC. 2. RIGHT TO OBTAIN FIREARMS FOR SECURITY, AND TO USE FIREARMS IN DEFENSE OF SELF, FAMILY, OR HOME; ENFORCEMENT. (a) ESTABLISHMENT OF RIGHT. -- A person not pro- hibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm shall have the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use fire- arms in defense of self, family, or home. (b) FIREARM DEFINED. -- As used in subsection (a), the term ""firearm"" means a -- (1) shotgun (as defined in section 921(a)(5) of title 18, United States Code); (2) rifle (as defined in section 921(a)(7) of such title); or (3) handgun (as defined in section 10 of Public law 99-408). (c) ENFORCEMENT OF RIGHT. -- (1) IN GENERAL. -- A person whose right under subsection (a) is violated in any manner may bring an action in any United States district court against the United States, any State, or any person for damages, injunctive relief, and such other relief as the court deems appropriate. (2) AUTHORITY TO AWARD A REASONABLE AT- TORNEY'S FEE. -- In an action brought under para- graph (1), the court, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party, other than a State, a reasonable attorney's fee as part of the costs. (d) STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS. -- An action may not be brought under subsection (c)(1) after the 5-year period that begins with the date the violation described therein is discovered. ------------------------ (end of HR 1276) ------------------------ Well, this sounds good to me. The key is Section (2)(c)(2), which will effectively open up the Federal court system to all the folks who can't afford to adopt an Attorney with whom to fight city hall. All of you who've been saying ""hey, isn't that illegal?"" could just go hire your own Attorneys on a pay-if-you-win (""contingency fee"") basis, and sue the bums ... :-) What you can do now: (1) Write your Representative, and ask them to co-sponsor HR 1276. (2) Write Representative Roscoe Bartlett, the sponsor -- Representative Roscoe Bartlett 312 Cannon House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515 -- to tell him who your own Representative is, and that you've asked them to join him as a co-sponsor of HR 1276. (3) Contact Gun Owners of America -- Gun Owners of America 8001 Forbes Place Springfield, Virginia 22151 -- which has committed to lobby on behalf of HR 1276. (4) For those of us with a RealJob (TM), find out how to reach Representative Bartlett's campaign fund (I'm working on it) and toss in a few bucks. You can bet your bippy that he's going to be one of the HCI ""targets"" in the next election, which isn't that far away (1994). (5) Tell your family, friends, gun club, etc. Enjoy ... :-) ",16 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr15.135941.16105@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) writes: |> |> Here is another anecdotal story. I am a picky eater and never wanted to |> try chinese food, however, I finally tried some in order to please a |> girl I was seeing at the time. I had never heard of Chinese restaurant |> syndrome. A group of us went to the restaurant and all shared 6 different |> dishes. It didn't taste great, but I decided it wasn't so bad. We went |> home and went to bed early. I woke up at 2 AM and puked my guts outs. |> I threw up for so long that (I'm not kidding) I pulled a muscle in |> my tongue. Dry heaves and everything. No one else got sick, and I'm |> not allergic to anything that I know of. |> |> Suffice to say that I wont go into a chinese restaurant unless I am |> physically threatened. The smell of the food makes me ill (and that *is* |> a psycholgical reaction). When I have been dragged in to suffer |> through beef and broccoli without any sauces, I insist on no MSG. |> I haven't gotten sick yet. |> |> -- I had a similar reaction to Chinese food but came to a completly different conclusion. I've eaten Chinese food for ages and never had problems. I went with some Chinese Malaysian friends to a swanky Chinses rest. and they ordered lots of stuff I had never seen before. The only thing I can remember of that meal was the first course, scallops served in the shell with a soy-type sauce. I thought, ""Well, I've only had scallops once and I was sick after but that could have been a coincidence"". That night as I sat on the bathroom floor, sweating and emptying my stomach the hard way, I decided I would never touch another scallop. I may not be allergic but I don't want to take the chance. Amy Mossman ",13 "Re: prayers and advice requested on family problem Cloak yourself in God's sustaining and abiding love. Pray, pray, pray. Pray for your brother, that he will assume the Godly role that is his. Pray for your sister-in-law, the what ever is driving her to separate your brother and herself from the the rest of the family will be healed. Pray for God to give you the peace in the knowledge that you may not be able to 'fix' it. From your description it would appear that it will require devine intervention, and the realization by your brother as to what his responsibilities are. Seek Godly counsel from your pastor, or other spiritually mature believer. Know always that He is akways there as a conforter, and will give you wisdon and direction as you call on Him. ",15 "Re: Spreading Christianity (Re: Christian Extremist Kills Doctor) ""David R. Sacco"" writes: > Not to be too snide about it, but I think this Christianity must > be a very convenient religion, very maliable and suitable for > any occassion since it seems one can take it any way one wants > to go with it and follow whichever bits one pleases and > reinterpret the bits that don't match with one's desires. It > is, in fact, so convenient that, were I capable of believing > in a god, I might consider going for some brand of Christianity. > The only difficulty left then, of course, is picking which sect > to join. There are just so many. > > Dean Kaflowitz > > Yes, Christianity is convenient. Following the teachings of Jesus > Christ and the Ten Commandments is convenient. Trying to love in a > hateful world is convenient. Turning the other cheek is convenient. So > convenient that it is burdensome at times. > > Dave. Some Christians take a 10% discount off the Ten Commandments. Sunday cannot be substituted for the Sabbath. ",19 "Looking for X Window Server Frequency-of-Operations Data Hello-- I'm currently designing the architecture of a chip which is intended to help speed up common operations on a windowing system such as X. A friend and I are designing the chip as the final course project for an advanced computer architecture course taught by Dr. Fred Brooks at UNC-Chapel Hill. While we feel that we've got a pretty solid design currently, we'd really like to get ahold of some frequency data from an X-Windows server so that we can make the most effective use of our bit budget. Unfortunately, I've been unable to find anything of this sort in the various X FAQs, or X manuals that I've seen. Does anyone have some type of frequency data, like how many Copy-rectangle operations vs draw-lines, and things of that sort? Or, barring that, a program that records requests to the server into a logfile that I can munge on myself? Any and all help would be very appreciated. Many thanks, ---Mark =============================================================================== Mark A. DeLoura deloura@cs.unc.edu U of North Carolina, Chapel Hill ",5 "Re: Organized Lobbying for Cryptography In article <1993Apr20.213718.23129@husc3.harvard.edu>, kubo@zariski.harvard.edu (Tal Kubo) writes: > Having mentioned the possible dangers of unwelcome political associations, > I would be remiss not to suggest something in the opposite direction: > gathering the support of the NRA by emphasizing the RKBA side of the > issue as well as the First-Amendment side. > > Tal kubo@math.harvard.edu > > Hmmm, this gave me an interesting idea. How about this argument: 1) Second Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms. 2) Strong cryptography is ""arms"", according to the U.S. government (that's why it's so hard to export). Therefore, we have a constituitional right to strong cryptography! Q.E.D. However, it's likely to be as hard or harder to exercise this right as it is getting to exercise the other rights that the government is slowly restricting. Maybe the NRA _would_ be the best existing organization? (Although I think a new one might be better, but perhaps would take too long to start up. I would certainly join.) -- | From the electronic desk of Bob Langford Health Sciences Computing | 804-786-9843 (fax: 804-786-9807) Virginia Commonwealth University | e-mail: langford@gems.vcu.edu [or] langford@vcuvax (for BITNET) ",11 "Re: HOT NEW 3D Software I don't have nor Imagine nor Real 3d, but as old Amiga user I think you should take a look also to Real 3d 2.0 for the Amiga. I saw Imagine 2.0 on the Amiga for a long time at my friend's home, and I've seen R3D 2.0 in action at Bit.Movie 93 in Riccione, Italy (an Italian Computer Graphics Contest). Many professionals using 3d Studio on PC, SoftImage for Silicon Graphics and Imagine on the Amiga were *VERY IMPRESSED* by the power of this programs. Sorry, I've lost the posting with full description of features of this great program. For more informations give a look in comp.sys.amiga.graphics. Representative of Activa International told me that it will be out in 2 weeks for the Amiga and that PC MS-Windows, Silicon Indigo and Unix version are under development. Ciao, Sergio -- Sergio Ruocco - ruocco@ghost.sm.dsi.unimi.it Via Di Vittorio, 4 I-20019 Settimo Milanese Milano Phone: 0039-2-3283896 ",1 "Re: Booting from B drive In rpao@mts.mivj.ca.us (Roger C. Pao) writes: [much discussion about switching 5.25"" and 3.5"" drives removed] Another (albeit strange) option is using a program like 800 II (available via anonymous FTP at many major sites), or FDFORMAT (also available via anonymous FTP), that allows you to format 5.25HD disks to 1.44Meg, or 3.5""HD disks to 1.2Meg (along with many MANY other formats!) so you can DISKCOPY (yes, the broken MeSsy-DOS DISKCOPY!) the 5.25"" disks onto 3.5"" disks or vice versa... I use this techniques with ""NON-DOS"" self-booting game disks on my old Tandy 1000, and it works... Another program named Teledisk (shareware--available on many major BBS's) will also make the weird format disks, provided you have 800 II or FDFormat installed.... Some disks that won't DISKCOPY properly can be readily Teledisk'd into the proper format... At least this is a software solution for a hardware/BIOS deficiency, eh? -- Joseph Zbiciak im14u2c@camelot.bradley.edu [====Disclaimer--If you believe any of this, check your head!====] ------------------------------------------------------------------ Nuke the Whales! ",3 "help Hi there, I am here looking for some help. My friend is a interior decor designer. He is from Thailand. He is trying to find some graphics software on PC. Any suggestion on which software to buy,where to buy and how much it costs ? He likes the most sophisticated software(the more features it has,the better) Thanks in advance ",1 "UMass Big East hockey underway The mission to revive hockey at UMass is now underway. At the 4 PM Saturday afternoon press conference held at the new Mullins Center Arena - former Boston College Asst. Coach Joe Mallen was awarded the 4 year, $85,000/year contract as Head Coach for the UMass Minutemen. Mallen was the third viable pick for the position, right behind Jeff Jackson (Lake Superior) and second behind Shawn Walsh (UMaine). Previous offers for the position were rumored to have been offered to the asst. coaches of Brown, RPI and the head coach of the AHL Springfield Indians. UMass hockey was disbanded in 1979 due to financial constraints that had undermined the team's position over a period of years. In late November of last year, the $52 million Mullins Sports Center was opened following its one year construction deadline. The Minutemen are slated to play an independent Div II/Div III schedule this upcoming winter before officially entering Hockey East for the Winter 1994 season. Mallen has yet to comment on player recruitment strategies or potential team candidates for the Minutemen - it is expected that he will leverage off his inside contacts within New England, the Bay State and Europe to draw on competitive, top ice players for the University. UMass has slated 18 hockey scholarships for the upcoming Fall semester ; expect to hear more from me as I hear more from my sources. .... J.D. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jim Doyle Univ. of Massachusetts - Dept. of Computer Science Staff Programmer PUMA/DCC/CNET email: doyle@gaia.cs.umass.edu office: Lederle GRC Room A203 Tel. 413-545-3179 home : 91 Blackberry Ln Tel. 413-549-1409 Amherst,MA 01002-1516 ",10 "Re: guns=Amex AND new name..... Thomas Parsli writes: Remember me, Tom? I hope you'll respond, and I seem to be a Voice of Reason or some such (I've been recieving fan mail, so naturally my ego is somehwat inflated of late), and hope to make a few points here. >I have NEVER spoken for a ban against guns in America ! >What I've said is that there seems to be to MANY of them, and especially >to many in wrong hands.... And our argument is that you cannot remove them from the people who need restricting and not remove them from the people who don't. A fairly simple problem, given our size and numbers. Do you agree? We all believe criminals, particularly violent criminals, should not have firearms. The problem is making a law that does this without trodding upon the rights of the vast majority. Nobody here seems to be able to do it, and I doubt anybody in Norway can either. Thus, we are left with a philosophical difference: does the safety of a few justify restricting the many? We say ""no,"" while others say ""yes."" >Now IF you would like to reduce the number, how would you do it without >affecting good/responcible gun owners ?? Can you provide a method that cannot be abused? I doubt it. >I DO believe in a persons freedom. >What I don't believe is that you can have it all and don't pay for it. Of course. This is not in contention. What is in contention is how much one has to pay. >MOST europeans believe in a society of individuals, and that you HAVE >to give 'a little' to make that society work. It is this ""giving a little"" that makes Americans wary... We have seen this argument before. You might remember how a Chamberlain ""gave a little"" to a particular fascist/short asshole, and how such ""appeasement"" worked. While it might work in some instances, it doesn't work in others, and since we cannot predict the future we must be cautious in using actions that have a history of failure. >Cars and guns should really not be mixed, I just tried to make a point. >Like America, Norway has some spaces you have to cross to get from a to b, >so a car is essential in most parts.... >Guns on the other hand are not essential in Norway, so we don't >argue that IF we 'banned' guns we HAVE to ban cars..... Cars are not essential in Norway any more than they are in the USA. I'm willing to bet that you have neighbors that would be willing to drive you anywhere you wanted to go for a price. Thus, cars are not essential for your transportation. However, the arguments presented show that, since cars are used to kill far more people than guns in the USA, it makes much more sense to restrict cars than it does guns. How one defines ""essential"" often depends upon what one is willing to go through for that service. When we look at the raw data, such comparisons are not individually weighed. >EVERYONE who believe that Hitler and WW2 could be avoided if there were >more guns in Germany in the 30's: PLEASE read some HISTORY! This depends upon what the populace was willing to do. As Desert Storm proved, even an armed populace won't just revolt even when given a chance. Still, would Hitler have done all that he did with an armed populace? We have to wonder, as some of his first acts were to confiscate firearms. Other points in history show that dictators were overthrown by arms in the hands of the populace. Thus, we're left wondering if Hitler would have been overthrown or if King George was just unlucky in keeping the USA as a colony. One can argue both sides; one also has to live with each action. >Is this discussion about >1. Banning weapons for ALL Americans > or >2. Making it harder for criminals to get one ?? It is about #2, but so far all proposals to curtail #2 have wound up enforcing #1 as well. I only wish that ""or"" was so logical. >Change of name....... That was, on my part, purely in jest. I merely pointed out how we were from similar backgrounds racially, but of wholly different backgrounds politically. I thought this would underscore my point on how our cultures were so different despite similar heritage. >Did the BATF get the warrant for a gun search only or was there other reasons. >(Child abuse for instance) BATF can *only* enforce gun/tobaccco/alcohol violations. Child abuse is a matter for the individual states and local authorities. >Doesn't the people reading this newsgroup have access to the clari.news.* >hierarcy ?? (Some seems rather mis/unInformed) That hierarchy is a paid-for feed at many sites. Most people do not get it for this reason, and I suspect money, not censorship, is the main reason. Do you get alt.sex* at your site? I can't read it here because of censorship and legal fears, so again our differences show. You have topless sunbathing, and in the USA we can watch a murder every fifteen seconds and yet breasts are forbidden on television. < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > ",16 "Transistor/tube >|Also, ask any electric-guitar enthusiast which type of amp they prefer, and >|they'll tell you tube-type, since tubes have lower distortion and noise >|than transistors. 'Course, most of your electric guitar types just say >>""Tubes sound better, dude."" :-) >Of course, they then turn up the REverb, the Gain, add in the analog >delay line and the Fuzz box. I'd think they wouldn't notice the >distortion. Oh I forgot the phase shifters. It is kind of absurd, isn't it? Some players even want more distortion, especially the Hendrix fans :-) But there are a lot of them out there that can only afford the amp, or who like playing music without distortion. Then there are your hard-core Hendirx fans that want particular *types* of distortion, i.e., they make it, not their amps. >>Also, transistors have the advantage in both waste-heat and energy-use, >>mainly because of the heaters on the cathodes of the tubes. >Ah, but how do they compare to Mechanical systems :-) I didn't see a thing about waste-heat from Babbage, and haven't seen one of those mechanical TV's in a while, so it's anybodie's guess :-) -Tommy Mac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \ They communicated with the communists, 18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",14 "Re: 666, THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST, VIEWER DISCR In article , swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim) said: >Posted on 27 Mar 1993 at 00:16:13 by Michael Parks Swaim >In article jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall) writes: >>Well, I *WILL* do the math, and I get: (6^6)^6=2,189,739,336 >> >>This mean anything to anyone? :^) 5*1=5 thus fitting in neatly with something else. _________________________________________________________________________ º...and everything under the sun is in tune... º ""What was Jabba the º ºnd the sun is eclipsed by the moon."" º Hut smoking?"" º º --Pink Floyd º --Alex º º ""Eclipse"" º curious º º_________________________________________________º_____________________º ",19 "Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx? In article eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes: > >the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines.. :-) > A 180 degree V Ya gotta love it !> >eliot ",7 "Re: Tracing license plates of BDI cagers? jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist) wrote: > > In article <1qmgg9$g2n@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes: > >A traffic citation is an accusation of having committed a crime. > >That's why they have to go through the motions of having a trial if you > >want one, you are still innocent until proven guilty. Cops are not the > >only ones who can accuse people of committing crimes, anyone who > >witnesses a crime can do so. > > > >Go to the Highway Patrol and explain the situation, give them a > >description of the car and the license number, and tell them the > >specific violation of the law which you witnessed and wish to prosecute > >(ie, search the Vehicle Code and have the section number handy). Fill > >out the ticket and sign it. It will go through the same system any > >ticket a cop writes goes through. If contested, you will have to > >appear in court to prosecute. Your word will not carry the same weight > >as a cop's. > > And, indeed, the advice I got from a police officer when I had my > close call was that, without additional impartial witnesses, it > would be my word vs. the other driver's, and that it was up to me > to decide whether the time and inconvenience to me was worth the > time and inconvenience to the other driver, and also whether any > positive effect would result (beyond making me feel better). My $0.02 worth: I did this once. BDI LadyCager in a Town Car passed me on the right on a two lane road!:-{ I memorized her license plate (this in the days before I carried pen and paper in my tankbag) and went to the local police station. Cops filled out the ticket. I signed it. She paid it! tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil ""Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."" --gene spafford, 1992 ",8 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <1993Apr17.044430.801@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) wrote: > Stuff deleted > Now, I do not believe in _blindly_ following anyone, no matter > how knowledgeable he or she may be in Islamic law. If someone tells me > ""Islam says such and such"", I immediately say ""show me the support for > this statement from the Qur'an and Sunnah"". I believe this to be my > Islamic duty, for according to one hadith of the Prophet (peace and > blessings of God be with him), if your leader tells you to enter a fire, > and you do it (and kill yourself), then you have sinned for doing > wrong, even though you > were _blindly_ following the instructions of your leader. _I_ am > responsible for my own actions, not Abu Hanifa, or Imam Malik, etc., > even if I am blindly following the opinions of Abu Hanifa etc. > > With this in mind, to my understanding, we must look at the reasoning > behind such opinions of Muslims that support Khomeini's fatwa. Now, to > my understanding, the hadith upon which those who support Khomeini's > fatwa is relating to a particular instance that occurred during war > time. Now, brother, in general, it is IMHO ridiculous and wrong to say > that a hadith relating to the actions of war is usable during times of > peace. I think any sensible human being can see this, so I personally > think that the reasoning of some of our ulema in this matter is faulty, > for they think it is legitimate to use acts of war in times of peace > regarding this particular subject. > > If you think I am wrong, please feel free to say so, _with your > reasoning from Qur'an and hadith_, please. Not because somebody said > so, I want the reasoning from Al-Qur'an and the sahih hadiths. > > Perhaps we should take our discussion to soc.religion.islam. Please > email me, Rashid, if you think we should do this. > > By the way, I also disagree with your opinion regarding the punishment > for apostasy. The viewpoint I follow -- that there is in general no > punishment for apostasy -- is _very_ strongly supported by Qur'an and > hadith. This is very well shown in the book ""Punishment in Islamic Law"" > by Mohamed S. El-Awa (American Trust Publications, 1981). > I reiterate that I would agree with you that there is little justification for the punishment of apostasy in the Qur'an. In Islamic history, as well, apostasy has rarely been punished. Belief is considered a matter of conscience and since there is to be no compulsion in the matter of belief, apostates have been generally left to believe or not believe as they will. However, when an apostate makes attacks upon ""God and His Messenger"" the situation changes. Now the charge of apostasy may be complicated with other charges - perhaps charges of sedition, treason, spying, etc. If the person makes a public issue of their apostasy or mounts public attacks (as opposed to arguement) against Islam, the situation is likewise complicated. If the person spreads slander or broadcasts falsehoods, again the situation changes. The punishments vary according to the situation the apostate is in. Anyhow, the charge of aggravated apostasy would only be a subsidiary charge in Rushdie's case. There is a distinction in the Qur'an between a formal war situation and being in the situation where someone unilaterally wages war (by their actions), creates disorder, makes mischief,etc. against the Muslims and creates a situation that results in harm to Muslims. Here, a small group or even a single individual could be said to be engaged in such a practise. In other words, there is a clear difference between a formal war situation (where two clearly defined parties wage war, conclude treaties, exchange prisoners, etc.), and dealing with attacks that come from isolated individuals or groups against Islam. It is the second situation, the unilateral attack and the spreading of ""fasad"" that would apply in the case of Rushdie. The matter of Rushdie is not a simple matter of banning an offensive book (banning the book is secondary) - a full set of circumstances following the publication of the book come into play as well, including the deaths of many Muslims, and Rushdie's (and his publishers) Media games. > Now, I do not believe in _blindly_ following anyone, no matter > how knowledgeable he or she may be in Islamic law. If someone tells me > ""Islam says such and such"", I immediately say ""show me the support for > this statement from the Qur'an and Sunnah"". I believe this to be my > Islamic duty, for according to one hadith of the Prophet (peace and > blessings of God be with him), if your leader tells you to enter a fire, > and you do it (and kill yourself), then you have sinned for doing > wrong, even though you > were _blindly_ following the instructions of your leader. _I_ am > responsible for my own actions, not Abu Hanifa, or Imam Malik, etc., > even if I am blindly following the opinions of Abu Hanifa etc. >Now, to > my understanding, the hadith upon which those who support Khomeini's > fatwa is relating to a particular instance that occurred during war > time. Now, brother, in general, it is IMHO ridiculous and wrong to say > that a hadith relating to the actions of war is usable during times of > peace. I think any sensible human being can see this, so I personally > think that the reasoning of some of our ulema in this matter is faulty, > for they think it is legitimate to use acts of war in times of peace > regarding this particular subject. I am not sure which hadith you are referring to above. I believe that one of the Qur'anic verses on which the fatwa is based is 5:33. Every verse in the Qur'an has a corresponding ""circumstance of revelation"" but in no way is the understanding (the tafsir) of the verse restricted solely to the particular historical circumstance in which it was revealed. If this was the case then we could say that all the laws and regulations that were revealed when the Muslims were NOT involved in conflict, should be suspended when they were at war. The logic does not follow. In complex, real-life situations, there may be many verses and many hadiths which can all be related to a single, complicated situation. The internal relationships between these verses may be quite complex, such that arriving at an understanding of how the verses interlock and how each applies to the particular situation can be quite a demanding task. It is not necessarily a simple ""this or that"" process. There may be many parameters involved, there may be a larger context in which a particular situation should be viewed. All these matters impinge on the situation. In other words there is a great deal involved in deciphering the Qur'an. The Qur'an asks us to reflect on its verses, but this reflection must entail more than simply reading a verse and its corresponding hadith. If the reflection is for the sake of increasing personal piety, then each person has his own level of understanding and there is no harm in that. However, if the reflection is in order to decide matters that pertain to the State, to the gestation of laws and rulings, to the gestation of society, the dispensing of justice, the guidance of the community, then there are certain minimum requirements of understanding that one should achieve. Jaffar Ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq(a.s.) relates some of these requirements, as taught by the Prophet(S.A.), in a hadith: ""...he who does not distinguish in the Book of Allah the abrogating verse from the abrogated one, and a specific one from a general one, and a decisive from an ambiguous; and does not differentiate between a permission and an obligation, and does not recognize a verse of Meccan period from a Medinite one, and does not know the circumstances of revelation, and does not understand the technical words of the Qur'an (whether simple or compound); and does not comprehend the knowledge of decree and measure, and is ignorant of advancing and delaying (in its verses); and does not distinguish the clear from the deep, nor the manifest from the esoteric, nor the beginning from the termination; and is unaware of the question and the answer, the disjoining and the joining, and the exceptions and the all-inclusive, and is ignorant of an adjective of a preceding noun that explains the subsequent one; and is unaware of the emphasized subject and the detailed one, the obligatory laws and the permissions, the places of the duties and rules, and the meaning of the lawful and the unlawful; and does not know the joined words, and the words that are related to those coming before them, or after them - then such a man does not know the Qur'an; nor is he among the people of the Qur'an...."". Based on these and other hadiths, and in accordance with many Qur'anic verses (""Why should not a company from every group remain behind to gain profound understanding (tafaqquh) in religion and to warn people when they return to them, so that they may beware."" (9:122)), a science of jurisprudence arose. The requirements for a person to be considered a mujtahid (one who can pronounce on matters of law and religion) are many. I've listed a few major divisions below - there are, of course, many subdivisions within these headings. - Knowledge of Arabic (syntax, conjugation, roots, semantics, oratory). - Knowledge of tafsir and principles of tafsir. - Logic (mantiq) - A knowledge of Hadiths - A knowledge of transmitters (rijal) - Knowledge of the principles of juriprudence (Qur'an, Sunnah, Consensus, Reasoning) The study of Qur'an and sunnah for purposes of law involves: - discussion of imperatives (awamir) - discussion of negative imperatives (nawahi) - discussion of generalities and particularities (aam wa khas) - discussion of unconditional and conditional - discussion of tacit meanings - discussion of the abstract and the clear - discussion of the abrogator and the abrogated The principles of Application of the law involves: - principles of exemption - principles of precaution - principles of option - principles of mastery The jurisprudent is bound to go through a very rigorous process in pronouncing judgement on a given situation. It is not a matter of looking at one verse and one hadith. Now no one should blindly follow anyone, but there is a difference between blind following and acceding to the opinion of someone who is clearly more knowledgeable and more qualified than oneself. There is the famous hadith of the Prophet (S.A.) in which he says: ""The fuqaha (religious scholars) are the trustees of the Prophet, as long as they do not concern themselves with the illicit desires, pleasures, and wealth of this world."" The Prophet (S.A.) was asked: ""O Messenger of God! How may we know if they so concern themselves?"" He (S.A.) replied: ""By seeing whether they follow the ruling power. If they do that, fear for your religion and shun them."" I do not yet know enough about the Imams of the four Sunni madhabs to comment on how this hadith applies to them or to the contemporary scholars who base themselves upon them. The Prophet also refered to the fuqaha as ""The fortress of Islam"". My only point is to make it clear that arriving at a legal judgement calls into play a certain amount of expertise - the specifics of this expertise is delineated in the Qur'an and hadith. Those who acquire this expertise are praised in both the Qur'an and hadith - those who without the requisite knowledge pronounce on matters that affect society, state, and religion are cautioned. The only reason I said anything at all about the Rushdie affair in this group, is because the whole basis for the discussion of the fatwa (that is, apostasy), was wrong. When one discusses something they should at least base their discussion on fact. Secondly, Khomeini was condemned as a heretic because he supposedly claimed to be infallible - another instance of creating a straw man and then beating him. > Perhaps we should take our discussion to soc.religion.islam. Please > email me, Rashid, if you think we should do this. I agree that we should move the discussion to another newsgroup. Unfortunately, I do not have any access to email, so private discussion or a moderated group is out of the question (I cannot post to a moderated group like soc.religion.islam. How about soc.culture.arabic or talk.religion.misc? As salaam a-laikum ",0 "Re: Science News article on Federal R&D In article , xrcjd@resolve.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles J. Divine) writes: > Just a pointer to the article in the current Science News article > on Federal R&D funding. > > Very briefly, all R&D is being shifted to gaining current > competitive advantage from things like military and other work that > does not have as much commercial utility. > -- > Chuck Divine Gulp. [Disclaimer: This opinion is mine and does not represent the views of Fermilab, Universities Research Association, the Department of Energy, or the 49th Ward Regular Science Fiction Organization.] -- O~~* /_) ' / / /_/ ' , , ' ,_ _ \|/ - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / / / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap! / \ (_) (_) / | \ | | Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory \ / Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET - - Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV ~ SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS ",14 "Re: Contemplating Ottawa->San Francisco->Ottawa trip In article David Gibbs, dagibbs@quantum.qnx.com writes: >Greetings rec.motorcyclists. > >Coming up labour day weekend this year, Worldcon (World Science Fiction >Convention) will be held in San Francisco (California). I am planning >to attend and have been speculating on doing my trip there by motorcycle >instead of by plane (as was my initial thought.) > >I live (and would be departing from) Ottawa, Ontario (Canada). > >I had planned to take two weeks for this trip, giving me 5 days travel >time on either side of the weekend. > >This looks like a distance of about 2800 miles (4500 km). If your distance calc is correct for an ""on the road distance"" (and not as the crow flies), this is 900km a day for 5 days. If you spend the entire time on interstates, which would be a total waste of time, that's at least 8 hours on the road every day not including eating/peeing/ sight-seeing etc. I was contemplating a similar trip, but from Ottawa to LA, or maybe Ottawa to Austin Tx. I figured if I wanna do a trip of this magnitude and enjoy it, I'd have to get my ass off the major Interstates and spend LOTS of time enjoying the country around me; i.e. stopping with a camera, meeting towns-people, going to a few bars. No sense spending 2 weeks looking out a helmet with the closest human contact found at the gas pump. I estimated I'd need at least 4-5 weeks to make the trip worthwhile. >I am looking for input, opinions, comments, or snarky remarks on: >1. My sanity. In question 8:) >2. Suggested routes. (Note, getting there is important, and my > schedule doesn't leave a lot of room for side trips, or circuitous > routes) Try and stay off the interstates!!! >5. Anybody who wants to join me on this trip. (For even part of the > distance.) Depending on your route and my plans, I may be heading that way as far as at least Detroit. >7. Anything that comes to mind, and that you think might be relevant. Call the Whithorse Pess. They're a book distributer catering to Motorcyclists. They have a large number of books highlighting the best roads FOR MOTORCYCLISTS along the general route you're looking at. They carry listings of bed and breakfasts all through the States which accept motorcyclists. Order their free catalog and within you'll probably find books covering absolutely all you needs for this trip. Their #'s in the Motorcyclist and/or Cycle World classifieds. >Thanks for any input. > >-David Gibbs (dagibbs@qnx.com) >Kawasaki Concours DOD# 585 O.K. Dave D.F. ""It's true they say that money talks. When mine spoke it said 'Buy me a Drink!'."" ",8 "getting to the point! To all a.a readers: I have been asked be several of you to post a list of the SDA Church's 27 Fundamental beliefs. I warn you now, it's a long list. However, I'll post it on Sunday. Sabbath is coming up soon so I won't be reading on Saturday. And I don't have time to do it now. I would GREATLY appreciate it if you would keep me in touch with what's going on. I hope all of you have a reastful and relaxing weekend. I hope it's the best one so far!! Tammy ",0 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article green@plains.NoDak.edu (Bill Green) writes: >Just to shed some light on the fire, it was widely reported (AP, etc.) that >there WERE several witnesses to BD folks starting the fires. It has also >been reported that the fires broke out in several places at once, which >rules out a Bradley knocking over a lamp, etc. as the cause. > >What I would like to see is some serious discussion of this incident. I >believe the moves made were right and proper, but I still have some problems >with some of the tactics. After watching the ABC special on it tonight, as >well as CNN and Nightline, I question some of the ATF and FBI actions. > >1) Could it have been possible to have taken Koresh outside the compound at >some time before the Feb. 28th raid? I think it was - he went into town fairly often, and was known to go jogging. This was even during the 9 month period when he was being watched. One wonders why the BATF went ahead, when they had been warned according to an interview with a BATF agent, that the BD were expecting them, and why they had the media in tow. Almost looks like they wanted to have a romp and a nice show for the media, and it all went to hell... He was also never known to act violently. He has always surrendered peacefully before (but of course, the warrants were served peacefully). He has been tried on the allegations before and found NOT GUILTY. The justification for this mess was he was alleged to have purchased $200,000.00 worth of guns and stuff (over an undetermined time period). Last I heard this is not a crime, or indication of one. I know of an INDIVIDUAL with that much value in guns. SHould he get a fly-thru-the-door shoot-first-talk-later raid? (grenades are shooting first, nobody I know of can say 'oh, thats only a stun grenade, thats OK...'). Can you? I sure cannot. Also, one cannot be sure that 200K figure is not calculated like the Feds calculate the value of a drug siezure... Even so, it is a 'so what' issue... He wasn't bothering anyone (besides the BATF who doesn't like folks other than themselves or other govt people having any effective guns)... and having an unapproved religeous group. Are we required to not offend the BATF these days? I sure hope it hasn't come to THAT... MY point is, it DOES NOT ADD UP. We need an independent investigation, and NOW. Assuming other than FBI/BATF are preserving the evidence. >2) Could a further wait have resulted in a different outcome. They had the premisis bugged. I am inclined to think a further wait would have saved lives. One wonders why they didn't have emergency gear on hand when they moved, and why they didn't turn on the water when a fire was observed, instead of saying ""aw, gee, there is no water"". Why so long before the fire gear even SHOWED UP - like after the building had pretty much finished burning? Fireman safety? Isn't that a decision the firefighters should be allowed to make? No water? Why didn't the Feds TURN IT BACK ON? They sure could cut it off quickly enough... One does wonder about the possibility of 'settling scores'... >3) Were FBI actions (blaring loudspeakers, etc.) the ""right"" course of action? > >And a few other questions. Like I said, I believe the actions taken, in >general, were proper. But I still have some reservations. > >One other point, I'm no fan of Janet Reno, but I do like the way she had the >""balls"" to go ahead and take full responsibility. Seems like the waffle boy >had problems figuring out just where he stood on the issue. What does 'taking responsibility' mean? You think she is going to be facing jail time if the acts were found to be criminal? You think she is going to face ANY repercussions if the FBI/BATF are found to have acted wrongly? I don't. It is a nice PR gimmick, though. I am not assured there will even be a serious independent investigation for possible wrongdoing or criminal acts on the part of the BATF or FBI. I expect to hear ""they are our best law enforcement. They wouldn't do anything like that - NO WAY. OUT of the QUESTION. End of issue"". I want to see an INDEPENDENT investigation, with full prosecuting and subpoena powers. With felony prosecution where felony acts are found. Fat chance, I bet. I bet the Justice Dept will have an internal investigation which will turn up at most 'poor judgement'. I hope I am wrong, that this is gone over with a fine tooth comb. -- pat@rwing.uucp [Without prejudice UCC 1-207] (Pat Myrto) Seattle, WA If all else fails, try: ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!pat WISDOM: ""Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."" - Albert Einstien ",16 "Selective Placebo From: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ella I Baff) writes: JB> RR> ""I don't doubt that the placebo effect is alive and well with JB> RR> EVERY medical modality - estimated by some to be around 20+%, JB> RR> but why would it be higher with alternative versus conventional JB> RR> medicine?"" JB> JB> Because most the the time, closer to 90% in my experience, there is no JB> substance to the 'alternative' intervention beyond the good intentions of the JB> practitioner, which in itself is quite therapeutic. [.......] JB> JB> John Badanes, DC, CA JB> romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu Well, if that's the case in YOUR practice, I have a hard time figuring out how you even managed to make it into the bottom half of your class, or did you create your diplomas with crayons? If someone runs a medical practice with only a 10% success rate, they either tackle problems for which they are not qualified to treat, or they have no conscience and are only in business for fraudulent purposes. OTOH, who are we kidding, the New England Medical Journal in 1984 ran the heading: ""Ninety Percent of Diseases are not Treatable by Drugs or Surgery,"" which has been echoed by several other reports. No wonder MDs are not amused with alternative medicine, since the 20% magic of the ""placebo effect"" would award alternative practitioners twice the success rate of conventional medicine... --Ron-- --- RoseReader 2.00 P003228: Purranoia: the fear your cat is up to something RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363 ",13 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qu0f6$489@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) wrote: > > In article <30134@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: > #In article <1qjbn0$na4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: > # > # > #>Really? You don't know what objective value is? If I offered the people > #>of the U.S., collectively, $1 for all of the land in America, would that > #>sound like a good deal? > # > #That happens to be a subjective example that the people of the > #US would happen to agree on. Continue to move the price up; > #at some point a few people would accept then more then more until > #probably all would accept at a high enough number. > > And this ""high enough number"" is...? :-) > > My point is that the deal is bad, and pretty much anyone can see it is so. Really? I suspect my neighbor would jump at your deal. Of course, she's only three, but if it were ""objectively"" bad, you wouldn't think it would make a difference... -- Lefty (lefty@apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:. ",0 "(Q) COMPAQ configuration. HELP!! Hi All COMPAQ owners A friend of mine has COMPAQ (PORTABLE III), and he has lost all the manuals and diskettes. Please HELP him getting the machine's equipment definition (CMOS) memory configuration right. The machine says that some bytes of it are still incorrectly set up. It seems, that COMPAQ has some bytes defined not like the 100% IBM compatible machines. If You have a COMPAQ, it certainly has DIAGNOSTICs diskette with it. And this is needed. I can't reach quickly any COMPAQ dealers here. If it is possible PLEASE email documentation, or some of its configuration software. Heikki Haldre E-mail: hhaldre@sune.stacken.kth.se or hhaldre@park.tartu.ee ",3 "Re: What was the APPLE LI In article <11259.75.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us>, barry.davis@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Barry Davis) writes: |> The Lisa was originally introduced in 1980 or '81, I forget now, and |> sold for $9995 with 2 400k floppy drives and 1Mb memory. It didn't do |> too well. Close, but no cigar. The LISA was introduced in January, 1983 (at the same time as the Apple //e). I'll have to check to see if the Hard Drive came bundled for the $10K. The floppy drives were 5.25"" initially (the infamous ""twiggy"" drives) -- Chris Wood Bellcore ccw@ctt.bellcore.com ",4 "Windows and ATI Ultra (mach8 chip)sizing question I have just upgraded from a Trident TVGA9000 to an ATI Graphics Ultra (the old mach8 chip). I am quite pleased with the performance so far, but have one problem. When using windows in 800x600, I have noticed that the tile bars and scroll bars are significantly larger than they were when I was using the Trident card. Is there a setting in my .ini files that I can change to make these smaller ? I could not find the FAQ for this list... --Mike MDTANCSA@WATARTS.UWATERLOO.CA ",2 "Re: Abortion To: rcstage1@urc.tue.nl (Stage usercode) From: anthony.landreneau@ozonehole.com SU>There is no truth, only opinions. I can now understand where you are coming from. How can you go through life with out a constent? Without truth or a point of reference one wonders aimlessly. SU>I'm not wrong, that's just your opinion. Opinion based in fact? SU>This is not an exact science! SU>As far as I'm concernd, we can agree to differ, but I can not stand people SU>who think they are right and everybody else is wrong. Then maybe you had better sit down. SU>Guido Klemans Guido, before you have a hemmorage, maybe we can lighten up, Ok. You have opinions as do I. Flaming at each other will not get us anywhere in the understand of our respective positions. I offer a hand of friendship, a truce, if it may, so that maybe we can start this conversation like gentelmen (I am sorry if that was a mistake, from your name I can't tell gender, you know us stupid Americans). Since you have replied to my wife's post you must have some strong feelings about this issue. I would like to hear them, and understand them if I can. In return all I ask is for you to listen to me, and try to understand why I feel the way I do. All the yelling and all the hate about this issue just drives the sides farther apart, till they forget why they started the fight in the first place. If you and I can forster an understand and mutual respect for each others views than maybe, and only then really can we come up with a solution that is acceptable to us both. Anthony * SLMR 2.1 * What's the Differance Between an Orange? ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",18 "AVI to FLC converter I am looking for a small utility that will convert a Microsoft Video (AVI) file to an Autodesk Animator Pro (FLC) file. Since AVIs also contain sound, it would be nice if this utility also stored the sound track as a WAV or VOC file. Currently I'm accomplishing this by saving the AVI as multiple DIBs using Video for Windows, then converting each DIB to a GIF, then loading the GIFs into Animator. For the sound, I load the original AVI into WavEdit and save it as a seperate WAV file. This requires too many steps to be productive. Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks Don -- Don Campbell internet: donc@cognos.COM uucp: cognos!donc Cognos Inc. mail: P.O. Box 9707, 3755 Riverside Drive, (613) 738-1440 Ottawa Ontario, Canada. K1G 3Z4 ",1 "Re: Question for those with popular morality In article <1993Apr5.165709.4347@midway.uchicago.edu> dsoconne@midway.uchicago.edu writes: >>But there is a base of true absolute morality that we can stand on. > >Note that if the majority of people remain unconvinced, this idea >probably isn't worth very much in a pragmatic sense. Maybe not to you. But to those who stand on this base, He is precious. Link ",19 "Re: Flamage (was Janet Reno) In article <1pms5uINNq8e@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr) writes: >Um, Steve? Just speaking for myself, if I had to say which of the >participants in this thread was making the best argument in favor of the >doctrine that supporters of the 2nd Amendment are high-strung loose >cannons who shouldn't be trusted with a pea-shooter let alone a real >gun, I'd say that you win the award by the country mile. Try decaf. The problem is this: when people in this newsgroup post misogynist, homophobic nonsense they only reinforce the stereotype of guns as some sort of phallic extender. This kind of ""humor"" very seldom occurs in other freedom oriented news groups. That leads me to suspect (and it hurts alot) that there IS a higher percentage of misogynists and homophobes among gun supporters. This is a source of extreme embarassment. It makes me crazy that a few individuals who can't restrain their misogynist and homophobic ""humor"" make anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment look as if their reasons for favoring gun ownership are psychosexual. If speaking out forcefully against this nonsense means that I should switch to decaf, so be it There is no excuse for that kind of ""humor"". It's wrong and it gives aid and comfort to those that would disarm the citizens of this country. All so some chuckle-head misogynist homophobe can exhibit his ""humor"" on line. Sorry, but I think some of you need some caffeine if that joke about Janet Reno is funny to some of you. smg ",16 "Re: Hell-mets. In article <217766@mavenry.altcit.eskimo.com> maven@mavenry.altcit.eskimo.com (Norman Hamer) writes: > > > Having talked to a couple people about helmets & dropping, I'm getting >about 20% ""Don't sweat it"", 78% ""You might think about replacing it"" and the >other 2% ""DON'T RIDE WITH IT! GO WITHOUT A HELMET FIRST!"" > > Is there any way to tell if a helmet is damaged structurally? I dropped it >about 2 1/2 feet to cement off my seat, chipped the paint. Didn't seem to >screw up the actual shell. I'd bet the price of the helmet that it's okay...From 6 feet or higher, maybe not. > If I don't end up replacing it in the real near future, would I do better >to wear my (totally nondamaged) 3/4 face DOT-RATED cheapie which doesn't fit >as well or keep out the wind as well, or wearing the Shoei RF-200 which is a >LOT more comfortable, keeps the wind out better, is quieter... but might >have some minor damage? I'd wear the full facer, but then, I'd be *way* more worried about wind blast in the face, and inability to hear police sirens, than the helmet being a little damaged. > Also, what would you all reccomend as far as good helmets? I'm slightly >disappointed by how badly the shoei has scratched & etc from not being >bloody careful about it, and how little impact it took to chip the paint >(and arguably mess it up, period)... Looking at a really good full-face with >good venting & wind protection... I like the Shoei style, kinda like the >Norton one I saw awhile back too... But suspect I'm going to have to get a >much more expensive helmet if I want to not replace it every time I'm not >being careful where I set it down. Well, my next helmet will be, subject to it fitting well, an AGV sukhoi. That's just because I like the looks. My current one is a Shoei task5, and it's getting a little old, and I crashed in it once a couple of years ago (no hard impact to head...My hip took care of that.). If price was a consideration I'd get a Kiwi k21, I hear they are both good and cheap. > Christ, I don't treat my HEAD as carefully as I treated the shoei as far as >tossing it down, and I don't have any bruises on it. Be *mildly* mildly paranoid about the helmet, but don't get carried away. There are people on the net (like those 2% you mentioned) that do not consistently live on our planet... Regards, Charles DoD0.001 RZ350 -- Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time, struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing gourd. --Unknown net.person ",8 "Re: Orbital RepairStation The difficulties of a high Isp OTV include: Long transfer times (radiation damage from VanAllen belts for both the spacecraft and OTV Arcjets or Xenon thrusters require huge amounts of power so you have to have either nuclear power source (messy, dangerous and source of radiation damage) or BIG solar arrays (sensitive to radiation, or heavy) that make attitude control and docking a big pain. If you go solar, you have to replace the arrays every trip, with current technology. Nuclear power sources are strongly restricted by international treaty. Refueling (even for very high Isp like xenon) is still required and] turn out to be a pain. You either have to develop autonomous rendezvous or long range teleoperation to do docking or ( and refueling) . You still can't do much plane change because the deltaV required is so high! The Air Force continues to look at doing things this way though. I suppose they are biding their time till the technology becomes available and the problems get solved. Not impossible in principle, but hard to do and marginally cheaper than one shot rockets, at least today. Just a few random thoughts on high Isp OTV's. I designed one once... Steve Collins ",14 "Re: Bill Targets Pension Funds for "" Liberation "" In article mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes: In <4916@master.CNA.TEK.COM> mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes: |>>|> Excerpts from ""Insight"" magazine, March 15, 1993 | *Paranoia part deleted.* | Isn't Insight magazine published by the Mooneys? I don't remember the article that you removed so I can't comment on it. What I can comment on though is your response. Do you really believe that what you wrote is sufficient to refute the article? Do have any facts in addition to your opinion? No one has time to chase down every rumor that gets printed in the National Enquirer or whatever. The point is to wait and see if the assertions of the (rather bizarre) original post will be corroborated in any way. Perhaps they will. The recent posts of the rather bizarre original poster speak for themselves. -david ",18 "Re: Waco survivors 1715 19 April In article , strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes: |>In article , hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: |> |>|> |>|> In order to reject the word of the FBI and BATF it is neccessary to beleive |>|> the words of a man who has just murdered 17 children and ordered the |>|> suicide/murder of his other 80 followers. According to the account given |>|> the BATF attempted to serve a warrant upon Koresh at the ranch and were met |>|> by gunfire in a deliberate attempt to murder them. The Koresh/gun supporter |>|> claim that the BATF started shooting simply does not stand up. If the |>|> AFT had gone there to start shooting they would have gone with heavier |>|> grade weaponry than standard issue handguns. For all practical purposes |>|> they were unarmed, the B-D followers had automatic weapons. |>|> |>... |>|> The people who do not want gun control must obviously discount the entire |>|> government story. This is simply rationalisation. It is not enough for |>|> them to simply dismiss the government as incompetent. That would require |>|> them to come up with a solution themselves. Instead they have to come |>|> up with a government conspiracy theory whereby the government decided to |>|> set out to murder 80 people just to set up some sort of scare to alow them |>|> to get gun control legislation through. |>|> |> |>I must object to the characterization of those opposed to the |>government's handling of the Waco situation as ""gun supporters"". |>Your argument tries to paint the BATF critics as right-wing |>gun nuts, and just mixes up two issues. |> |>I am one of the BATF/FBI critics, and yet I am a liberal |>and just as anti-gun as you are. I just happen to believe |>that everyone has civil rights, even religious crazies. |>They're all human beings, not some nest of wasps that |>you're trying to exterminate. |> |>The BATF created the crisis situation by the way they handled |>the original raid. It was well known that Koresh regularly |>went jogging outside his property. He could have been served |>with a search warrant then. He could have been arrested if |>he had refused to comply. Instead officers armed with grenades |>invaded the property. This escalated into a shooting war |>with tragic deaths on both sides. |> |>Those were the first two mistakes: the bad judgment of |>asking for a no-knock warrant, and the bad and probably |>illegal way the already-unwise warrant was served. |> |>At this point, the situation escalated to where it was |>described as an armed standoff and a hostage crisis. |>That's when the government started covering their traces, |>sealing the warrant, revising their reported history of |>the incident, etc. |> |>Things were already building up to disaster. Now the |>government could have simply closed the supply routes |>and waited. But according to Janet Reno, that option |>had ""never been seriously considered"". So, supposedly |>because the agents were ""frustrated and fatigued"", and |>because there supposedly were no backups, they felt |>they had to go in. Yes the govt handled it in the Rambo Hollywood type style with extreeme Machismo. Perhaps thats not the way to handle it. It is a completely different thing to start asserting as many have done that the government is primarily to blame. The comparisons with the NAZIs in particular are purely gratuitous. Since you have provided a constructive opinion on the issue your post desreves to be taken seriously. Peter Nelson also made some very good points about how a low key approach might have been more effective. The point is though that you learn through mistakes. The govt played the wrong card and lost. Thats not a big deal. They had had four guys murdered at the begining and maybee they just were not prepared for wuite this situation. Who could be? If the same thing were to happen all over again we might perhaps be able to castigate the Govt if they used the same tactics and failed in the same way. As it is I can't say that I would not have made the same mistake. Maybee I wouldn't because I don't as a rule go in for a confrontational situation if I can avoid it. Maybee I would because with all those press about its very difficult not to try the macho stuff. The FBI had information from within the compound we had no access to. They may have calculated that the B-D followers resolve was cracking based on their listening devices within the compound. They knew that Koresh had chickened out of one suicide attempt. This may have been the reason why they considered that fear might have been a weapon for breaking his resolve. Again in Panama they had used the heavy rock music to great effect during Bush's invasion. Funny that few of the Koresh supporters and appologists complain much about the death of several thousand Pananmanian civilians while the US govt attempted to arrest their former ally. |>And please let's not turn this into a pro-gun vs. anti-gun |>discussion. Anti-gun people do not believe that gun-owners |>deserve to get frontally assaulted by armed government |>agents. And Koresh's civil rights exist whether his |>guns were legal, illegal, illegal-but-should-have-been-legal, |>or whatever! Koresh negated his civil rights the minute his followers fired on the police helicopter. No matter whether the warrant was or was not technically valid the guys who were carrying it out thought that it was. Thus the assault on them was completely inexcusable no matter what rationalisation people might wish to employ. Of course we have to consider the guns issue. That is the whole core of the question. Everything else is a diversion. Phill Hallam-Baker ",18 "Re: centi- and milli- pedes -*---- In article <1993Apr28.081953.21043@nmt.edu> msnyder@nmt.edu (Rebecca Snyder) writes: > Does anyone know how posionous centipedes and millipedes are? ... The millipede's around here (Austin) have no sting. Some of the centipedes do. The question Rebecca Snyder asks is much like asking ""How venomous are snakes?"" One either wants to ask ""which snake?"" or point to some reference on the many different species of snake. Similarly, there are many different species of millipede and centipede. (These are different families; millipedes have two pairs of legs per body segment, while centipedes have but one pair.) Sorry if this information is not useful. Russell ",13 "Re: Info on NEC 3D Multisync monitor myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers) writes: > > I am looking for any info I can get on the NEC 3D monitor. > > I know that it is a multisync but that is about all. > > I plan on buying one second-hand in a while depending on its specs. > > > > Does anyone know the min/max frequencies, whether it is interlaced, > > non-interlaced, or both, video compatability, etc? > > I have seen a reference to it being .28 pitch with 1024 X 720 resolution > > and that it supports SVGA from one source and that it doesn't support > > SVGA from another source. (Neither source seemed to have much reliable > > info so I don't want to take a guess.) > > I'm at home right now, and so am away from my monitor files; the following > is off the top of my head, subject to revision, worth-what-ya-pay-for-it > sort of info. If you don't hear from anyone who has spec sheet in hand, > e-mail me and I'll look it up. > > If I'm remembering correctly, the 3D is a 14"" 0.28 mm pitch multisync that > covers at least VGA (31.5 kHz horizontal, 60 Hz vertical) to 1024 x 768 > 60 Hz (which is going to be about 48 kHz horizontal). It may go somewhat > higher than that on the horizontal, but you won't be happy with anything > beyond 1024 x 768 on a 14"" 0.28 tube; you probably won't be too thrilled > with the 1024 x 768 on this tube, but it *will* sync up and display it. > (I prefer at least a 16"" 0.28 for this resolution.) Since SVGA is 800x600, > it'll do that too. The horizontal range probably goes lower than 31.5, but > I don't know if it goes all the way down to straight NTSC-rate TV (which need > about 15.75 kHz sweep). As far as ""video compatibility"" (if I'm reading > the question right: it won't take anything but analog RGB inputs. In other > words, it has no way to decode NTSC or Y/C video inputs. You would need > some sort of board to to this conversion - like the sorts of things that > let you display NTSC on a VGA display. > > Hopefully, now, I'll see this response of mine, and it'll remind me to > look this stuff up and confirm it. (Or force me to post a hasty retraction!) Ok, I was under the impression that it accepted digital input. I still don't know for sure if it accepts BOTH interlaced and non-interlaced as I have gotten conflicting info. victor@inqmind.bison.mb.ca The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607 ",12 "Re: GGRRRrrr!! Cages double-parking motorc egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes: |> In article 34211@castle.ed.ac.uk, wbg@festival.ed.ac.uk (W Geake) writes: |> >Ultra sticky labels printed with your |> >favourite curse are good - even our local hospitals use them instead of |> >wheel clamps, putting one (about A5 size) on each window of the cage. |> |> An apartment complex where I used to live tried this, only they put the |> thing over the driver's window, ""so they couldn't miss it."" A friend |> damned near wrecked on the way home one night, her vision blocked by |> the sticker. I suggested to the manager the ENORMOUS liability they |> were assuming by pulling that stunt. (not that logic has anything to do with it, but...) I can see the liability of putting stickers on the car while it was moving, or something, but it's the BDI that chooses to start and then drive the car in a known unsafe condition that would (seem to be) liable. Furthermore, they would have had the last chance to avoid an unsafe situation, which is an additional factor in attributing ""blame"". Anyway, stickers on the window are less effective... no one has any problem taking a blade to a window to remove a stubborn sticker, but it's a different story with that that nice paint job on the door.... *jeff* -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey E.F. Friedl Omron Corporation, Nagaokakyo (Kyoto), Japan jfriedl@omron.co.jp, jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu [ DoD##4 N8XBK CBR250R ] Visiting researcher to the Mach Project, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh ",8 "MC SBI mixer HI, I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me on twwo related subjects. I am currently learning about AM/FM receivers and recieving circuits. I understand a lot of things ,but a few things I am confused abuot. The first is the MIXER, to mix the RF and local oscillator frequencies to make the IF. Does anyone have any cicruit diagrams (as simple as possible) for this kind of mixer? I have come across a MC-SBL mixer chip But I have not been able to find it in any catalogs (ACTIVE,etc...) Along the same note, are there any SIMPLE fm receiver circuits anyone may have stashed away somewhere and they couold let me see?. P.S. any REALLY GOOD BOOKS on AM/FM theory ALONG WITH DETAILED ELECTRICAL DIAGRAMS would help a lot. I have seen a lot of theory books with no circuits and a lot of circuit books with no theory, but one without the other does not help. Thanks, Mark Musone ",12 "Laserdisks Forsale - $20 The following laserdisks are in used but ""like-new"" condition: Category Title Price ========================================================================= Horror Rabid Grannies 20.00 ""A blood-spattered tale of two little old ladies who open a surprise package from Hell."" CLV Side 2 CAV 88 min. Horror Forbidden World 20.00 ""Subject 20 is half-human, and one of the researchers is the father."" Roger Corman, Prod. CLV 77 min. Horror Horror Planet 20.00 ""An alien creature has been waiting for a million years to breed, and its time has come."" CLV 93 min. Horror WitchTrap 20.00 ""...and in the upstairs shower, we have the sexy Ms. Ginger Kowowski and this is where all the chillingly frightful fun comes to a head."" CLV 92 min. Murder Bikini Island 20.00 ""Swimwear Illustrated needs a cover girl and the competition is fierce, very fierce. CLV 85 min. Comedy Hysterical 20.00 ""It's a blend of timeless farce, contemporary satire, nonsensical sight gags and dead people singing and dancing."" Hudson Brothers CLV 90 min. Comedy Hollywood Hot Tubs 2 20.00 ""Valley Girl, Crystal, is back in another superheated frolic through those ""Hollywood Hot Tubs""."" CLV 100 min. Comedy Beverly Hills Brats 20.00 ""Scooter's in trouble now, his kidnappers don't take credit cards."" Martin Sheen CLV 90 min. Comedy Transylvania 6-5000 20.00 ""The good citizens of Transylvania invite you to this, the most frighteningly funny event of the year."" Ed Begley Jr., Jeff Goldblum CLV 94 min. Comedy Meet the Hollowheads 20.00 ""Makes the ""Married...With Children"" gang look sane! Just say NO to butt polish."" CLV 89 min. Comedy Don't Tell Mom The Babysitter's Dead 20.00 ""No rules. No curfews. No nagging. No pulse. Home Alone times 5!"" Christina Applegate CLV 105 min. Animated POPEYE at Sea 20.00 ""9 hilarious cartoon adventures on the high seas."" CLV 60 min. Color Musical Babes in Toyland 20.00 Disney re-make of the classic with Annette, Tommy Sands, Ray Bolger, and Ed Wynn. CLV 105 min. Action American Angels - Baptism of Blood 20.00 ""Meet the first ladies of Wrestling!"" CLV 99 min. Making of... Runaway Train/52 Pickup 20.00 ""All of the behind the scenes action displayed for your pleasure."" Jon Voigt Ann-Margret CAV 43 min. Drama I Posed for Playboy 20.00 ""When fantasy meets reality!"" Lynda Carter CLV 98 min. Shipping costs of $5.00 per disk ($3.00/disk for 3 disks or more) will be added to the total. 10% off of orders of 5 or more titles. No CODs. MO or checks accepted in advance payment. Larry McElhiney (408) 426-5858 x358 mack@mchome.santa-cruz.ca.us ",6 "Re: Insurance and lotsa points... In article <1993Apr18.230531.11329@bcars6a8.bnr.ca> keithh@bnr.ca (Keith Hanlan) writes: >In article <13386@news.duke.edu> infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew Infante) writes: >>Well, it looks like I'm F*cked for insurance. >> >>I had a DWI in 91 and for the beemer, as a rec. >>vehicle, it'll cost me almost $1200 bucks to insure/year. >> >>Now what do I do? > >Sell the bike and the car and start taking the bus. That way you can >keep drinking which seems to be where your priorities lay. > >I expect that enough of us on this list have lost friends because of >driving drunks that our collective sympathy will be somewhat muted. Look, guy, I doubt anyone here approves of Drunk Driving, but if he's been caught and convicted and punished maybe you ought to lighten up? I mean, it isn't like most of us haven't had a few and then ridden or driven home. *We* just didn't get caught. And I can speak for myself and say it will *never* happen again, but that is beside the point. In answer to the original poster: I'd insure whatever vehicle is cheapest, and can get you to and from work, and suffer through it for a few years, til your rates drop. And *don't* drink and drive. I had one friend killed by a drunk, and I was rear ended by one, totaling my bike (bent frame), and only failing to kill me because I had an eye on my mirror while I waited at the stoplight. Regards, Charles DoD0.001 RZ350 -- Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time, struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing gourd. --Unknown net.person ",8 "Re: Rumours about 3DO ??? First off: Thanks to all who have filled me in on the existence of the 68070. I assumed rashly that the particular number would be reserved for further enhancements to the Motorola line, rather than meted out to another company. Ah, well, I guess that's what I get when I assume the computer industry will operate in a logical manner! ;-) In article <1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com> Ricardo Hernandez Muchado, ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com writes: > Sean, I don't want to get into a 'mini-war' by what I am going to say, >but I have to be a little bit skeptic about the performance you are >claiming on the Centris, you'll see why (please, no-flames, I reserve >those for c.s.m.a :-) ) > > I was in Chicago in the last consumer electronics show, and Apple had a >booth there. I walked by, and they were showing real-time video capture >using a (Radious or SuperMac?) card to digitize and make right on the spot >quicktime movies. I think the quicktime they were using was the old one >(1.5). Version 1.5 of Quicktime is, as has been stated, the current version of the software. The older version is 1.0, and 1.6 is on the horizon in the not too distant future. > They digitized a guy talking there in 160x2xx something. It played back quite >nicely and in real time. The guy then expanded the window (resized) to 25x by >3xx (320 in y I think) and the frame rate decreased enough to notice that it >wasn't 30fps (or about 30fps) anymore. It dropped to like 15 fps. Then he >increased it just a bit more, and it dropped to 10<->12 fps. Quicktime does a much better job of playing back movies at size than it does playing back resized movies. Apparently the process of expanding each frame's image and dithering the resultant bitmap to the appropriate bit depth is pretty processor-intensive. There are optimizers that work pretty well for showing movies at double size, but if you drop to 1.9x size or increase to 2.1x size, performance suffers dramatically. > Then I asked him what Mac he was using... He was using a Quadra (don't know >what model, 900?) to do it, and he was telling the guys there that the Quicktime >could play back at the same speed even on an LCII. He lied. :-) Quicktime is very CPU dependent. He was probably confused by the fact that QT is locked to an internal timecode, and will play in the same amount of time on any machine. However, an LC will drop frames in order to keep the sound and video synced up. The Centris and Quadras have similar CPUs and will thus boast similar performance, though the Quadras will be a bit faster due to marginally faster clock speeds and somewhat different architecture. > Well, I spoiled his claim so to say, since a 68040 Quadra Mac was having >a little bit of trouble. And this wasn't even from the hardisk! This was >from memory! > > Could it be that you saw either a newer version of quicktime, or some >hardware assisted Centris, or another software product running the >animation (like supposedly MacroMind's Accelerator?)? I expect that the version of the Quicktime software you saw was 1.0 -- I was using was 1.5. One of the new codecs in v1.5 allows video at nearly twice the size and the same frame rate as what version 1.0 could handle. The Centris 650 I saw was a plain-vanilla, with the exception of the nice speakers that were playing the sound, and the software was Movie Player, the QT player Apple includes with the software. > Don't misunderstand me, I just want to clarify this. No problem -- it still surprises me that Quicktime is able to do the things it does as well as it can. ======================================================================== Sean McMains | Check out the Gopher | Phone:817.565.2039 University of North Texas | New Bands Info server | Fax :817.565.4060 P.O. Box 13495 | at seanmac.acs.unt.edu | E-Mail: Denton TX 76203 | | McMains@unt.edu ",1 "Re: Lindros will be traded!!! In <1993Apr5.163209.576@r-node.hub.org>, Jay Chu writes: >True rumor. Fact! A big three way deal! >Eric Lindros going to Ottawa Senators. And Senators get $15mill from >Montreal. >Montreal gets Alexander Daigle (the first round pick from Senators) >Philly gets Damphousse, Bellow, Patrick Roy and a draft pick. Sheesh. The rumor mill strikes again. But let's just assume this were true. My question is this: What would Montreal give San Jose if the Sharks got first pick and took Daigle? Tim Irvin ***************************************************************************** ",10 "Third party monitor on IIsi So what's the deal with the PDS slot in the IIsi? I recently purchased a Mac IIsi. I want to add a non-Apple monitor to the system. I was told that you could buy a 90 degree angled PDS to NuBus adaptor card so you can fit a standard NuBus card into the computer. Am I mistaken or do have to buy a PDS monitor card specifically for the IIsi? I've seen the PDS monitor cards for the si, but they seem expensive, and I'm not exactly made of money. Any ideas? Help. Clue me in! -- Randy L. Riegsecker --------------------------------------------------------------------- ""Barney must die."" I need somebody to shove. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: the opinions expressed here are mine and not anyone else's. ",4 "Revival of San Marco? (was Re: Commercial Space News #22) In article <324417a1@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org writes: > COMMERCIAL SPACE NEWS/SPACE TECHNOLOGY INVESTOR NUMBER 22 [...] > This might point out some key discriminators in judging the > feasibility of a commercial launch site. These include: > - Is there an identified key customer to provide core usage > sufficient to recover setup costs? > - Is there a market advantage of using the site? > - Can existing infrastructure be used or modified at the site? > - Can financing be found at low enough cost to support the > investment? > Other commercial launch site ventures -- including those at > Woomera, Poker Flat, Cape York, White Sands, Alabama Off-Shore > Platform, Hawaii, and Vandenberg have to also be judged against > these criteria. In my opinion, some of these ventures are flying > on hope and speculation, and not on sound financial grounds.] This reminds me... my fuzzy brain recalls that somebody was thinking of reviving the San Marco launch platform off the coast of Kenya, where the Copernicus satellite was launched around 1972. Is this true, or am I imagining it? Possibly it's connected with one of the Italian programs to revive the Scout in a new version. That old platform must be getting pretty rusty, and there ain't a lot of infrastructure to go with it... Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey | ""We'll see you Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory | at White Sands in June. Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET | You bring your view-graphs, Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV | and I'll bring my rocketship."" SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS | --Col. Pete Worden on the DC-X ",14 "Re: Do we need the clipper for cheap security? : From: caronni@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch (Germano Caronni) : In article <9304201003.AA05465@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> gtoal@gtoal.com (Graham Toal) writes: : >Can someone tell me if hardware compression is or is not needed to run : >digital speech down 14.4K? I think it is; I've heard it's not. Lets : >say 8 bit samples. Would *raw* data at the corresponding sampling rate : >be usable? If not, how fancy does the compression need to be? : As far as I know ISDN (call it Swissnet here, and it's being plugged in) it's : 8 bit 8000Hz (gives you one channel of 64kBit/sec) I guess you should not go : below a sampling rate of 6000 Hz if you want to have same quality as on an : analog-line. Anybody knows compression-algorithms & -factors for voice ? I've posted some info on CELP coding on sci.crypt. Looks like you can squeeze speech into 4000bps if you have a fast enough computer like a sparcstation (or a Newton with the Acorn Risc Machine in it :-) ) This drops the bandwidth to so low a figure that it's feasible to run speech over tcp/ip running on top of slip down a v32bis modem. Not only will this let us run point to point encrypted speech, it'll let us run speech internationally over the internet if no-one stops us by getting *very* heavy about regulations. The thought of this, if the administration realised, would probably scare them shitless. Now of course the trick is to develop and define a standard protocol for internet speech *damn fast*, allowing anyone who feels brave to inplement custom handheld hardware as well as us hacking it on our workstations. Shouldn't be too difficult. The CELP stuff is standardised, we use tcp/ip streams, and a protocol allowing silences to be used to catch up on any net lag, and also to avoid sending any data during silences (ie it's not wise to be synchronised real-time on each end because any net delays would add up to big voice-lags) As for me, I'm going to press ahead on trying this stuff as soon as I get my sparc back from being loaned out and buy the necessary microphone. It'll save me a fortune in calling my friend in texas every night :) (whether encrypted or not) You know, surely *someone* is working on this. Who? It's so obvious, why doesn't it exist already? I've only seen netphone for Suns and it didn't do the CELP compression so was restricted to ether connections. G ",11 "Back Breaker, Near Hit!! About a year and half ago when I first started riding, I took a MSF course. I have taken those lessons to heart. Over the past year I have had only a few near collisions with traffic morons on four wheels. Yesterday I got to add another to the list but with this one I felt the most helpless. I am sitting at a light about 1 - 2 car lengths behind a car, a wise decsion. Suddenly I hear screeching tires. I dart my eyes to my mirrors and realize it's the moroon flying up right behind me, in my panic I pop my clutch and stall the bike. Luckily the guy stops a foot behind my rear wheel. I understand why you theoretically stop so far behind a car but can you really in actuality avoid such an incident? Suggestions? ",8 "Re: Why not give $1 billion to first year-long moon residents? In article <1993Apr20.101044.2291@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >This prize isn't big enough to warrent developing a SSTO, but it is >enough to do it if the vehicle exists. Actually, there are people who will tell you that it *would* be enough to do SSTO development, if done privately as a cut-rate operation. Of course, they may be over-optimistic. You can also assume that a working SSTO would have other applications that would help pay for its development costs. I'd be inclined to make the prize somewhat larger, but $1G might be enough. -- All work is one man's work. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology - Kipling | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Re: MICROPHONE PRE-AMP/LOW NOISE/PHANTOM POWERED davidj@rahul.net (David Josephson) writes: >In ali@cns.nyu.edu (Alan Macaluso) writes: >>I'm looking to build a microphone preamp that has very good low-noise characteristics, large clean gain, and incorportates phantom power (20-48 volts (dc)) for a PZM microphone. I'm leaning towards a good, low-cost (??) instrumentation amplifier to maintain the balanced input from the microphone, for its good CMRR, internal compensation, and because i can use a minimal # of parts. >>Does anyone out there have any experience, suggestions, advice, etc...that they'd like to pass on, I'd greatly appreciate it. >Without doing anything really tricky, the best I've seen is the >Burr-Brown INA103. Their databook shows a good application of this >chip as a phantom power mic pre. I've had very good results from the SSM2016 from PMI (part of Analogue Devices). They have also now introduced the SSM2017 which looks good on paper, but which I haven't tried yet. Christopher -- ============================================================================== Christopher Hicks | Paradise is a Linear Gaussian World cmh@uk.ac.cam.eng | (also reported to taste hot and sweaty) ============================================================================== ",12 "Re: V4 engines In article <1993Apr26.234514.8418@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry) writes: |> In article <1993Apr23.183318.4635@ll.mit.edu> singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer) writes: |> >Didn't the Saab Sonnett have a V4? I recall someone telling that it was |> >something like 1/2 of a Ford 289. |> |> Not only the Sonett (correct spelling), but the 95 wagon and 96 sedan |> used a 1500 cc or 1700 cc V-4 from Ford of Germany. This particular |> motor had a 60 degree vee angle, a balance shaft and siamesed exhaust |> ports. This motor was later stretched into the V-6 commonly seen in the |> Capri. I think it was the reverse, the V4 being 2/3 of the V6. |> The V-4 could make pretty reasonable power for its size. But in the |> Saab, it made too much torque for the transmission, which had been |> designed for a 3-cylinder 2-stroke. It was also the worst engine that Ford (Europe) have ever made - bloody awful reputation. It's most successful application being the Transit van. Saab gave up with this motor and then made the Triumph 1854 (half a Stag V8) under license (I believe), but with 2-litre capacity and perhaps a different arrangement for the cylinder head studs, before developing their own straight four from the Triumph. kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch ",7 "Re: Cache card for IIsi In article richs@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Rich Spiegel) writes: >In article <1r2nb4$h42@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, da228@cleveland.Freenet.Edu >(Charles G. Williams) writes: > >>> So is $99 a good deal or not, I still don't know. >> I would say that is not a good deal. In June's MacWorld, River >> (formerly Maya computer) advertised a DayStar 33 MHz PowerCache WITH >> 68882 for $295! Can you believe it? I know prices would be falling, >> but geeze! >> >Actually, the 295 is for the 33 MHz PowerCard, not the Universal Powercache. >The 33 MHz Universal Powercache with FPU and adaptor can be had for about >$500 (still not a bad deal). I believe the Powercard is one generation >older than the Universal Powercache, and the one primary difference is that >the Powercard is machine specific while the Powercache can fit into many >Macs with the proper adaptor. Both cards are 68030 based. > >I'm not sure if the hardware or software with the Powercard is otherwise >different from the Powercache (perhaps someone could enlighten me?). > >I would also add that I called River Computer the other night and these >Powercards were going very fast. > >Rich Spiegel >Mission Analysis Group >Johns Hopkins Road >Laurel, MD 20723 >(301)953-5000, x7627 As a side note, in that same ad (MacWorld 6/93), they are selling the 50MHz Powercache for the IIsi with FPU for $575. For those thinking of upgrading to the 040 33 MHz Turbo (an upgrade costs $600 direct from Daystar), this comes out to $1175, about $200 cheaper than what most mail-order companies charge. Jon ",4 "Re: Live Free, but Quietly, or Die In article Russell.P.Hughes@dartmouth.edu (Russell P. Hughes) writes: }start her up and rev to about 3000 rpm....I FAIL cuz I register 120 DB, }and the max allowed is 110! If I fail with these pipes, there are gonna Next time make the numbers more believable -- this is poor flamebait. 120 DB is getting close to the sound of a jumbo jet engine at takeoff revs from some small number of yards away. It is certainly right around the pain threshold for humans. No way in hell the state permits 110 DB if they have any standard at all. -- Curtis Jackson cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com '91 Hawk GT '81 Maxim 650 DoD#0721 KotB '91 Black Lab mix ""Studley Doright"" '92 Collie/Golden ""George"" ""There is no justification for taking away individuals' freedom in the guise of public safety."" -- Thomas Jefferson ",8 "Localized fat reduction due to exercise (question). I was just wondering if exercises specific to particular regions of the body (such as thighs) will basically only tone the thighs, or if fat from other parts of the body (such as breasts) would be affected just as much. -- ___ ___ ________ _______+--------H. Anthony Chung--------+--C= AMIGAs--+ / //_/ // / ___ // / ____//|Case Western Reserve University | /\/\ R The | / ___ // / ___ // / //___~ | School of Dentistry | \ / Future| /_// /_// /_// /_// /_____// +-hac@po.CWRU.Edu-(Cabal on IRC)-+-ac\/is------+ ",13 "Re: Bases loaded walk gives Reds win in 12 In article <1993Apr23.120044.15627@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: >In article mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes: Sigh. Here we go again. >>Actually, several SCDN's stated that there were no definable skills >>that would make a hitter more likely to perform better in clutch >>situations vs. non-clutch situations, however one might choose to >>define ""clutch"". > >Right. Can *YOU* define such a skill? Must I? If I were to say that batting average is a predictor that can be used to judge which of two hitters is more likely to get a hit on a particular plate appearance, is that only valid if I can define the skill in hitting a baseball? That's all I've said, except I used the smaller sample of batting average in clutch situations. >>And elsewhere on this thread Sherri Nichols repeats her position >>that batting average in clutch situations is a meaningless statistic. > >For predicting the future, it has been entirely meaningless. At least >if it has meaning, we don't know how to find it. I did not say I could predict the future. I've suggested that the statistic is not necessarily meaningless. Here's the data for this situation: Non-Clutch Clutch AB H BA AB H BA Sabo 1539 452 .294 259 59 .228 Samuel 1564 383 .245 278 83 .299 If you were to have been the Reds manager at that time, I assume you would have had some basis for letting Sabo hit rather than pinch- hitting Samuel. I'm sure some of that basis would have utilized prior performance. You just wouldn't have used this particular aspect of prior performance. Is this not correct? >I'll try to avoid being insulting. But it's difficult when you so >cavalierly dismiss hundreds of hours of work with an ""I don't pretend >to understand, but..."" > >NOBODY IS DENYING that there are people who have hit well in the >clutch in the past. But I challenge you to find a method to predict >who will hit well in the clutch in the *future*. Which, after all, is >what you are claiming *you* can do. Since: One more time. I did *not* claim to be able to predict the future. I said that I accept the above data as an indication that Samuel would have had a better chance for success in that situation than Sabo. And I am not dismissing your work. I'm stating my opinion. You are saying that your work renders any opinion to the contrary invalid, so that the retention of that opinion is some kind of insult to your work. >Fine. We have plenty of data. Obviously our preconceived biases must >be coloring our work, since you *know* clutch hitting is a >well-defined and consistent skill, all of our failures >not-withstanding. So I challenge you to PROVE IT! I guarantee you >that *if* you can prove the existance of some form of clutch ability, >you will have *plenty* of happy SDCNs dancing around you. I did not say that clutch-hitting is well defined. I said that the data is significant to me. I did not say that it is a consistent skill. I have said that it is an indicator of performance under a certain set of circumstances. >But you aren't going to win any support by merely stating a position >and claiming 'they are stupid, so I must be right'. And, [big sigh] I have NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT EVER called you or anyone else on r.s.b. ""stupid"". It is nice, however, to see that you will consider the possibility that you actually could have some preconceived biases. >Yeah. Hindsight is always 20-20. Doesn't that make you bright? This >is a stupid argument and you know it. Ah. I knew we could get to the name calling. And there's that word you like so much. >A suggestion? Take data from 1990-1991, and attempt to come up with >some method that predicts who hit well in the clutch in 1992. If that >works, we can then attempt to apply it to 1993 and beyond. Wait a minute. I thought I first had to define clutch hitting. Do I, or don't I? >You have made strong statements. Now back them up or be proven a >total idiot. I made two statements in my post. 1. I am not convinced of your conclusions regarding clutch hitting. 2. I would have hit for Sabo. As for #2, many of us make a number of written statements through this media about what we think will happen in baseball. I'm not shy about it. I'll make the statement again. I believe that by season's end that Chris Sabo's batting average in clutch situations will be significantly lower than his batting average in non-clutch situations. I can't prove that it will happen, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Here's another one for you. In 1989 - 1991 Joe Carter's batting average in clutch situations was significantly below his batting average in non-clutch situations each year. I presume you think this is random. Non-Clutch: 1585 AB 411 H .259 Clutch: 338 AB 68 H .201 So what could we expect in 1992 from Mr. Carter? Well, his composite BA through 1989 was .268; through 1990 was .262; through 1991 was .263, so I think we have a pretty good idea of what kind of batting average he can produce. In 1992 he hit .264. Not surprising, huh? Also in 1992: Non-Clutch: 536 AB 144 H .269 Clutch: 86 AB 20 H .233 No, this doesn't prove any overall statistical trend that can be used to predict future performance across the breadth of major league ballplayers. It just makes me think that in 1993 Joe Carter's batting average in the clutch is not going to be as high as his ba in non-clutch situations. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - As for #1 (above), I have plenty of company. John Dewan of STATS,INC. is the editor of The Scouting Report wherein the statistics regarding clutch hitting are compiled, reported and referenced in the text. Bill James makes numerous references to a player's ability to hit well in the clutch. I am not saying that I can predict the future any more than they are. You (and others) are saying that your work renders their statements (and mine) meaningless. I don't accept that, which in your words proves that I am a ""total idiot"". ""Stupid"". ""Total idiot"". My, my. Such hostility. -- The Beastmaster -- Mark Singer mss@netcom.com ",9 "Re: I don't beleive in you either. In article <1993Apr13.213055.818@antioc.antioch.edu>, smauldin@antioc.antioch.edu writes: |> I stopped believing in you as well, long before the invention of technology. |> |> --GOD |> Ahhh go back to alt.autotheism where you belong! Brian /-|-\ ",0 "Re: Windows NT und X-Windows? In article , mongwa@acsu.buffalo.edu (Kan Mongwa) says: > >>>does anybody here know whether Windows NT does/will include a X >>>Windows server . . . >Could you add some information to 'No it does not'. >Say for instance your source of information. Source for ""does not"" comment: the CD-ROM and manuals for the March beta -- there *is* no X windows server there. Will there be? Of course. (Even) if Microsoft supplies one with NT, other vendors will no doubt port their's to NT. According to a recent newsletter from Hummingbird Communications Ltd., they announced eXceede/NT at UNIFORUM 93. The announcement reads like it is ""here now"", but there is no order or price info. I would guess it must be RSN. There is a dev kit too. ",2 "Xterm Problem With Input Focus / ""Shuffle Up"" The situation: running a Fortran executable that creats an Xterm. An option in the menu contained in the Xterm runs a Fortran subroutine that creats a Tektronics-mode Xterm for displaying some graphics. Typing a while the Tektronics-mode Xterm (future reference to this will be ""Tek-term"") is active makes the Xterm read future keystrokes but does not shift input focus to the Xterm (I'm basing that statement on the fact that the border of the Tek-term stays the highlighted color and that the Tek-term stays on top of Xterm. If what I'm describing isn't input focus, let me know.) The xterm can be brought to the top by clicking the mouse button on it. Subsequent selections from the Xterm of the menu item that displays graphics highlihts the border and displays the updated graphics, but does not move the Tek-term to the top. If the Tek-term has been iconized to conserve screen space, it stays an icon. The desired behavior: one of two options - 1. Whichever of the windows that is active is always on top of the inactive one. 2. Whenever the Tek-term is inactivated, it should revert to a icon but when it is activated it should become a window on a higher level than the Xterm. What I think I need: a means of specifying that a Xterm or Tek-term will be at the highest level and a way to iconify/expand a Xterm and Tek-term. These commands, would, I'd guess, need to be in the Fortran or in the command that starts up the Xterm and Tek-term. Other information: All this is taking place on a VT-1300 (a DEC dumb X-windows terminal) connected to a VAX running VMS and Motif. Thanks for your time. If you've got any words of wisdom (other than ""give up"" ;-), please send email to jhcox@Kodak.com ",5 "Re: Thrush ((was: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?))) In article <21APR199308571323@ucsvax.sdsu.edu> mccurdy@ucsvax.sdsu.edu (McCurdy M.) writes: >Dyer is beyond rude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't threaten to rip your lips off, did I? Snort. >There have been and always will be people who are blinded by their own >knowledge and unopen to anything that isn't already established. Given what >the medical community doesn't know, I'm surprised that he has this outlook. Duh. >For the record, I have had several outbreaks of thrush during the several >past few years, with no indication of immunosuppression or nutritional >deficiencies. I had not taken any antobiotics. Listen: thrush is a recognized clinical syndrome with definite characteristics. If you have thrush, you have thrush, because you can see the lesions and do a culture and when you treat it, it generally responds well, if you're not otherwise immunocompromised. Noring's anal-retentive idee fixe on having a fungal infection in his sinuses is not even in the same category here, nor are these walking neurasthenics who are convinced they have ""candida"" from reading a quack book. >My dentist (who sees a fair amount of thrush) recommended acidophilous: >After I began taking acidophilous on a daily basis, the outbreaks ceased. >When I quit taking the acidophilous, the outbreaks periodically resumed. >I resumed taking the acidophilous with no further outbreaks since then. So? -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer ",13 "Re: Pink Noise In article <34T302tW40N601@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> dws30@p1hdb01cd.amdahl.com (David Sharpe) writes: > > Pink Noise and White Noise are equal amounts of all frequencies. This >is in most cases around the 20-3.3K Hz range. Pink/White are used to >adjust for room dynamics and stuff like that. There are a few EQ's out >on the market that have Pink noise built in. Most all from Audio >Control have them I know the C-101 does. Wrong, wrong, completely wrong (and a little misleading, too). White noise is random noise whose energy density is constant for a constant bandwidth. That is, a 5 Hz wide band at 20 Hz will have precisely the same amount of energy as a 5 Hz band at 20 kHz. Pink noise is random noise whose energy density is constant for a constant precentage bandwidth. Thus, a 5% wide band of noise at 20 Hz (whose bandwidth is 1 Hz) will contain the same energy as a 5% wide band at 20 kHz (whose bandwidth is 1000 Hz wide). White noise is often used with spectrum analyzers that have constant bandwidths, pink noise is used with audio-type real-time analyzers whose bandwidths are centert-frequency dependent (often described as ""1/3 octave"" or ""1/2 octave"" or some such terminology). White noise, relative to pink noise, has more energy at high frequencies (at a rate equal to 3 dB per octave). Pink noise, relative to white noise, has more energy at low frequencies (at a rate equl to, again, 3 db/octave). -- | Dick Pierce | | Loudspeaker and Software Consulting | | 17 Sartelle Street Pepperell, MA 01463 | | (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX) | ",12 "Re: X11R5 and Gateway2000 In article <5914@daily-planet.concordia.ca> christy@cs.concordia.ca (Christy) writes: > >Hi, > I just got myself a Gateway 4DX-33V and trying to configure >X11R5 for it. Has anyone done this before ? More specifically, >I need a correct Xconfig file entry that is set up for my >graphics card and monitor. I have a 15"" Color CrystalScan 1572FS monitor >and a VESA LOCAL BUS ATI Ultra Pro with 1MB VRAM video card. >Thanks in advance. Didn't your operating system come with X? SysV usually does as far as I know. You'd do best to contact the people from whom you bought ths OS. If you're running Linux or something similar, good luck. :) > >Please send replies to christy@alex.qc.ca > > >Christy -- A voice of reason in the midst of LiberalNet. Mike Chapman, a higher lifeform trapped in a human body. AKA FourDee. Political Correctness is the tool of the mentally disadvantaged. ""I will NOT raise taxes on the middle class."" -Unknown ",5 "Re: high speed rail is bad In article <1993Apr15.162802.20933@hydra.acs.ttu.edu> mcgoy@unicorn.acs.ttu.edu (David McGaughey) writes: > >The question, I think, then becomes: Do we, the general public, need the train? > >I certainly do not, nor will I ever, need this train in Lubbock, Texas. With >the inexpensive air travel provided between Dallas and Houston, I don't think >people in Dallas or Houston need it either. I totally agree. Really, the only people this is going to benefit, are those who live in the cities where the train stops. Who wants to drive to the train station from X (Lubbock for example)? It's probably farther to drive to the train station than it is to the nearest national airport. I really can't see spending 5.7 billion on a system that only three cities will benefit from. ",18 "Self-Insured (was: Should liability insurance be required?) In article , viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes: |> I get annoyed at insurance. Hence, I'm self-insured above |>liability. Mandating that I play their game is silly if I've a better |>game to play and everybody is still financially secure. What's involved in getting bonded? Anyone know if that's an option recognized by NYS DMV? Rod --- Roderick Sprattling | No job too great, no time too small sprattli@azores.crd.ge.com | With feet to fire and back to wall. ",8 "Re: Biblical Backing of Koresh's 3-02 Tape (Cites enclosed) In article <20APR199301460499@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (stephen) writes: >For those who think David Koresh didn't have a solid structure, >or sound Biblical backing for his hour long tape broadcast, I don't think anyone really cares about the solid structure of his sermon. It's the deaths he's responsible for that concern most people. >I've enclosed a partial list of the sources he cites or quotes >he exactly used. As a Christian sermon, it's pretty good, if not >inspired. > >Though I differ in part on some of his conclusions, the argument >he presents is well backed -- which is why it's taken me this long >to work through -- still ongoing. > >If you thought it was rambling -- that says far more about you than >it does Koresh. There is a very definite relationship between the You've made me curious. What does this say about me? >First Seal in Revelation 6, the entirety of Psalms 45, and the >most of Revelation 19 -- which demonstrated one of his major points >about how the writings in the Prophets (including David), and in >the Psalms, and in Revelation are all telling the same story when >you understand how they're related (ie have the key). The largely >explain each other. Charles Manson used revelation as well. Do we see a pattern here? I wonder of Koresh liked the Beatles? > >The sequence following is keyed to the Koresh tape, should you care >to check it out. You can almost see the note cards he used when >doing the analysis. > [long list of Biblical references which impressed me tremendously but were deleted in the interests of common sense.] Koresh was a nut, okay? Just because he found ways for the Bible to backup his rantings does not make him any less of a kook. > >Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed >for the message he carried. I'll type this very slowly so that you can understand. He either set the fire himself or told his followers to do so. Don't make him out to be a martyr. He did not ""get killed"", he killed himself. > >In the mean time, we sure learned a lot about evil and corruption. >Are you surprised things have gotten that rotten? > The evil was inside the compound. All that ""thou shalt not kill"" stuff. >Oh yeah, one last point for the believers -- Philippian 2:14-19. For the rest of us, could you please post the text? ",19 "Re: iconize a running application? it doesnt matter what window mgr you running under, you can use the X routine: XIconfiyWindow(display, w, screen_number) Display *display; Window w; int screen_number; as in XiconifyWindow( XtDisplay(w), XtWindow(w), 0); does that perform what you want?? In article doomer@teal.csn.org (John Dumais) writes: Newsgroups: comp.windows.x Path: shearson.com!uupsi!psinntp!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!teal.csn.org!doomer From: doomer@teal.csn.org (John Dumais) Sender: news@csn.org (news) Nntp-Posting-Host: teal.csn.org Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc. X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 05:35:22 GMT Lines: 8 I've been trying to figure a way to programmatically iconize an application running under a Motif window manager. I have tried several approaches includeing sending events to the application's border window, but to no avail? Anyone done this before? Thanks, doomer '85 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Bore | ""Life is Short...Code Hard"" jbore@Shearson.COM | ...!uunet!shearson.com!jbore| (212)464-3431, Beeper: (212)396-4248 | ",5 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <30160@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >Speed is a quantifiable measure resulting from a set of methods that >will result in the same value measured no matter the reference. Hmmm. >A bullet with zero velocity sitting on a table on a train moving 60mph >will be moving at a speed of > > (a) 0mph to someone on the train. > (b) 60mph to someone stationary next to the train. What a coincidence! That's exactly how I've experienced it too. So far. Trouble is, I've no way of knowing if it is just coincidence. That is, it appears to have been that way in all measurements to date. But I wouldn't go as far as saying that it will always be so - or that it need always be so. >The reference frame makes the speed relative. But what's interesting >here is that every person on the train will see a stationary bullet. >Every person off, a bullet moving 60mph. More coincidence! Wow. Still - I wish I could be *sure* that it was always going to be like that. tommy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Definition: PHYSICS - To cut a short story long... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",0 "WANTED: Tandem Bicycle I am looking for a tandem bicycle, any make, any model, and any condition. I would prefer a complete bike, but just a tandem frameset is OK, too. Please email me if you have one for sale. P.S. I will pay shipping from anywhere in Canada or U.S. -- John Y. Ching (jching@watnow.waterloo.edu) Pattern Analysis and Machine Intelligence Group Department of Systems Design Engineering University of Waterloo, Canada ",6 "Re: re: fillibuster In article hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: > >In article <1993Apr15.213436.1164@martha.utcc.utk.edu>, PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal) writes: > >|>In article hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: >|>> >|>>In article <1993Apr12.002302.5262@martha.utcc.utk.edu>, PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal) writes: >|>> >|>>Well yes and no. The Federalist papers are propaganda and it is therefore >|>>difficult to determine precisely what Maddison etc were up to from them. >|> >|> There are a couple of ways to look at them. One is, ""We want >|>you to support this Constitution, so we'll say anything that we think >|>will appeal to you,"" or the more straightforward, ""This is why we think >|>what we've suggested in this Constitution is a good idea."" >|> >|> You clearly consider the former to be the primary situation. > >The point is that they did not make pains to point out where the consitution >may have been aginst the new yorker's interests. Also they did not want >to raise opposition by basing their advocacy on unpopular principles. Horrors, appealing to popular principles. Can we perhaps as the question of whether the Constitution might have been written to appeal to the principles, rather than, as you appear to believe, it was written with something else in mind and ""propoganda"" put out by its supporters. But let's be honest about something, here. When was the last time you brought up all the valid points against your own arguments? Or are they simply propogranda? We can't know what Phill *really* means because he's obviously using arguments designed to convince. >|> Well, I know Hamilton was a dyed in the wool monarchist, and >|>probably the authoritarian extreme to Jefferson's democratic impules. >|>But what would you suggest as a means of determining their opinions >|>on the government if we don't consider what they wrote about the >|>government? > >I don't propose that any means exists for determining their true opinions. >Thus their true opinions died with them and are of little help today. > >Their opinions have not the slightest bearing on the matter though, only their >arguments. These are true or false regardless of who said them or why. If they're true or false, regardles of why they were said, why on earth did you make a point of calling them ""propogranda?"" That would seem to be irrelevent. >The >difficulty that most US posters seem to have is in considering that their >arguments may have been flawed or no longer apply to modern societies. Oh, I have no argument with questioning them. I don't believe they no longer apply, but that's because I think most of them were good arguments. I'm not entirely happy about the situation, because they were obviously only applied to a minority of the time, but I don't think that alone is sufficient to invalidate them. >If they were alive today the one opinion we could count upon these men to >express is that a careful study of the mechanisms of government is necessary >and that an ongoing improvement of the same is required. They gave their >opinions in certain areas and have been proved right. In other areas they >got it wrong. They ensured that there was a mechanism to adapt and improve >the consititution. this can only happen if there is a willingness to accept that >the structural problems within the US political system may require >constitutional change as a solution. Since the U.S. constitution is the basis for the U.S. political system, most changes in it would require Constitutional change. In this particular case, however the fillibuster is a matter of procedure and tradition. It only *should* have been made part of the Constitution. :-) >|> If the Senate was less powerful than the House of Lords, than >|>we'd almost have to state that the House of Representatives was also. >|>(In fact, they both were, because the British government had much >|>greater power than did the American system). > >In principle no, in practice yes. In principle no? That they had less power of that they should have had less power? >The British government today is theoreticaly >dependent on the will of the Monarch. By convention any monarch seeking to >exercise that power is deposed. The subtly is that the Prime Minister is >not able to identify their politics with the national interest in the same >manner that US Presidents regularly do. Phill, we're discusing the power of legislative houses. While the Prime Minister *is* member of Parliament, he is more analgous (although badly) to the U.S. President. Now, please explain to me how the U.S. House of Representatives is ""in principle"" more powerful than the House of Lords (or the Senate) but in practice is less. Are you suggesting that the writers of the Constitution *really* intended for them to be more powerful, but gosh darn the thing was ratified before they realized they'd forgotten to put those extra restrictions on the Senate in? >|> I disagree. The system is not too slow, it was simply designed to >|>handle less than it has demanded that it handle. As somebody in Washington >|>put it (whose name I forget), ""Congress has become everybody's city >|>council."" > >One reason for that is that at every level the government is rendered unable >to come to decisions. These decisions are pushed up to the next higher level >instead. Not at all. As any entry level political science course will tell you, people who want laws implemented will always choose the level of government to ""attack"" which presents them with the best chance of getting what they want. With national ""interest groups"" it is simply a very rational thing to do to want the Federal government to enact a law rather than the states. Less people to persuade, and less ""contributions"" to make. Why do those concerned about abortion primarily concentrate at the Federal level? Simply because if they win that battle all the little state battlefields are won by extension. The same extends to insurance, medicine, and most other questions. Local government has not ""failed"" in that it hasn't done what it should, but that it is dominated by local interests. Thus non-local interests who want localities to abide by their rules can't get their rules past the local government. Thus, since they've got more clout, only in the wrong place, they appeal to the next higher level because it can impose its will on the lower. I mean, let's get real here. Do we *really* need the Congres of the United States deciding that x traffice light should be on thus- and such pattern? Or that *carjacking* needs to be a federal as opposed to a local crime? The more people want the more Congress will take power to ""sell"" it to them for their votes. I don't think the rise of ""special interests"" is coincidence with the increased power of Congress. >|> Congress is more than capable of quick action, and has more than >|>enough power and time on its hands, if it confined itself to what its >|>original jurisidiction was and allowed more local autonomy. > >If they were to start from a social welfare model instead of the current >""no state subsidy motto"" they would be better placed. As it is there is >plenty of state money being handed out. The problem is that it is >distributed on the basis of power in congress and not on the basis of >actual need. Bingo. The higher up the governmental ladder the less actual need matters, because political power can be concentrated at higher levels, while people with less cloud only find themselves reduced to in effectiveness. >In order to set up a school project in New York state you have to pay off the >other 49 states with pork - defense contracts, agricultural subsidies etc. >Or to be precise 30 of the states since you need 60 to beat the filibuster. Then why not simply leave New York's education to New York? I remain unconcinved that there is any state in the Union which is not capable of educating its own children if that's what they want to do. And if you leave it to them, you only have to worry about the ""pork"" in that state. And since industries can't concentrate their political power and wealth, rather they must divide it among the states to try and get what they want, individual voices have more relative impact. The problem with the fillibuster is not that you must ""buy off"" states, but that the Congress has acquired too much power to sell pork. >|> It is not a case of the system of government they created failing, >|>but that it is operating under a set of conditions they specifically >|>wanted to avoid. Namely, a concentration of power. It would seem >|>then that the proper thing to do is not to reduce the power of either >|>House in some attempt to grease the wheels. All you'll get then is >|>a system which moves quicker to do stupid things. It would make more >|>sense to make more decisions at a local level. > >No, you have to break the machine free of seizure before you can redirect it. But why on earth should we want to redirect it? You said yourself that you have to sell pork to get things through Congress. If Congres has less authority to sell pork and retains its authority to enact national legislation within its granted jurisdiction, the pork problem is significantly reduced. >The current blocks on power simply absolve congress of any responsibility >to come to a decision. The current blocks essentially state that inaction is preferable to action, thus it the system is weighted against action. Considering the government the usually the institution with the sole power to enforce its decisions by force, I consider bias against making those decisions a good thing. >Pushing the decisions lower in the pyramid won't >work unless the lower levels are less corrupt. In most cases they are worse, >not better. The difference with the lower pyramid is that a) they have more legal, legitimate authority in most matters under our Constitution than the federal government, and b) at those lower levels power is harder to concentrate. And c) you get the benefit of not imposing new deicisons on everybody at once. You get to see them tried out without a national decision. Congressional action usually treats the entire country as a whole, yet even with similar problems in different areas, different solutions may be called for. And while I often don't agree with the decisions my local and state reps make, at least I have a better option of going to the city council and shooting my mouth off. I'd much rather the majority of laws be made by accessible people who hang around and end up having to put up with them rather than somebody far off in Washington with half a million or more constituents. I'm curious what you base your assumption that lower levels are more corrupt. >|> I fail to see where any restrictions, implied or otherwise, were >|>placed on the veto. It could just as easily have been read as a means >|>to put a check on democratically popular but unwise (in the executive's >|>opinion) policies. > >Since we were arguing from the Federalist papers I would point to them. Phill, *you* brought up the Federalist papers. We were arguing the fillibuster and whether or not a minority of Senators should be allowed to hold up a bill. You claimed the Senate was suppose to be a far less powerful House, and I contended there was nothing in the Constitution or other writings which indicated this. Which was when you brought up that we can't decide what the founders wanted based on the Federalist papers. You argued against them, I never argued from them. I have primarily referred to the Constitution, which places only very small restrictions on the Senate than for the House. >The >US constitution gives almost no reasoning as to how it should work. The >only part where a reason is given is the right to bear arms ammendment where >the well regulated militia justification is ambiguous. The U.S. Constitution is a nuts-and-bolts document. The Delcaration of Independence was the high-brow reasoning. (There are a couple of other examples, though, such as the reasoning for the power to tax, and the reasoning for the power to grant permits, both in Article I, Section 8.) >That the veto was meant to be an exceptional measure follows from the >fact of the senate. If the President was meant to revise legislation then >there would be three chambers of the legislature, not two. Furthermore >the separation of powers would have been much less distinct. To a certain extend I do believe the veto has become something it wasn't intended. However, I also believe it is inevitable considering the Congress' own abuse of their power to make bills say whatever they want them to say. Unlike most people I think we shouldn't be worrying about the veto, which is fine, but of the problem in Congress which almost necessitates its abuse. >|> There is no limit in the Constitution to the President's veto power >|>regarding what a bill is for. Previous Presidents have used the veto >|>for any number of reasons, most usually having something to do with their >|>agenda. I am really curious how you single Bush out as *the* President >|>who abused vetos. > >He has the record for vetos. *BUSH?* Phill, that's absurd. Bush had *37* vetos, one of which was over-ridden. Go read up on FDR if you think that's anything resembling a record. >|> Why is it not a reasonable restriction? Because 51 Senators >|>is the magic holy number upon which Laws must be based? If 41 Senators >|>feel safe enough with their state constituencies to stand up and >|>fillibuster isn't that *enough* to indicate there's a sufficient question >|>as to whether a law is a good idea or not to re-evaluate it? > >Up to a point, the fact is though that when the majority are opposed by >a minority the minority should not be allowed to win by default. Why not? What is inherently wrong with biasing the system against action? Historically governemnt action in the U.S. when dealing with issues with a bare minority and a large minority have not been successful. When you're in a position of imposing federal power on diverse people, why should the federal government not have to got through something more than a bare majority >|> Why one earth *should* 51% be sufficient to enact a law which >|>covers 250 million people in very, very diverse places and living >|>in radically different conditions? Why *shouldn't* a super-majority >|>be required? > >Because the bill at issue is a money bill relating to a short term proposal. Now we're switching from a general question of a fillibuster to a specific bill. I don't see how it make a difference. >It is not a change in the law where a presupposition in favour of the >status quo is arguable. Sure it's arguable. Theyr'e *arguing* it. However, requiring 60% to bring it to a vote ensures that they'll have to have a *good* argument. Something that isn't based solely on party lines. >|> Any system in which the simple majority is given absolute power >|>to ignore the minority then the minority *will* be ignored. I do not >|>see this as a positive thing. And for all that I'm sure the Republicans >|>are looking for pork as much as the Democrats, they've got some legitimate >|>objections to the legislation in question. > >So instead you consider a system under which the minority automatically win >to be superior? No, I am completely happy with a system which requires a minority for *action*. Since U.S. history is a history of carving up population groups and implementing piece-meal on minorities, I feel minorities should have sufficent clout to prevent action they feel strongly enough about. And 41% is hardly a tiny minority. I don't advocate the minority being capable of initiating actionm but I see no problem with biasing the *federal* system against action. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - ""I still remember the way you laughed, the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't love me anymore."" - ""Weird Al"" ",18 "Re: Question for those with popular morality (hudson) >/These people hurt their own bodies. Why can't they hurt other peoples bodies >/too? > (me) >Because other people might not *want* to be hurt, Hudson. And hurting >them against their will is a violation of choice. /(hudson) /So. Why is someone elses will such a big deal if morality is all relative. I don't believe I ever said that morality was all relative. What I said was that I can make my mind up on my own, thank you, and that you don't have the right to tell others what to think. I think that you will find that in most moral systems, there is a respect for human life and the dignity of the person. It is all the stuff besides these points that forms the core of the disagreement between primitive moral absolutists like yourself and the rest of us. /(hudson) /Maybe (the insane lover of pain might reason) if other people experienced /enough pain, they might learn to enjoy it, too. Fine. There is still the clinical definition of crazy. And this also involves a violation of free will, because the insane lover of your little example would be inflicting pain on a non-willing subject. Try again. (hudson) >/You have to have other premises to derive this. > (me) >No, you don't. That is a patently false statement. /(hudson) /You have to have some sort of premise about choice or self-awareness. No, you do not. I demonstrated to you the example of the football team which doesn't require premises about freedom of choice or sentience/self-awareness. As I said, you are wrong, and you don't seem to know much about moral systems. If I were you, I would take David Bold's suggestion and do some reading on the subject before you try preaching about it. ",19 "Re: Integra GSR > >Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable, >then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect > (not to mention, a hell of alot smoother and quieter - balance shafts.The Acura has the engine > wins the reliablity contest hands down. You can rev that car all day, everyday, >and you'll never blow a hose, or crack the block, or anything else. (I speak >from expierence!) >I'm not saying the Quad 4 is a bad engine, but don't highlight reliability when you >comparing it to a Acura Engine. AND while the Integra costs alot more, it is a a couple of things: blowing a hose doesn't speak of engine reliability, and while it is true that quad4's have a problem with head gasket leaks, that was a design flaw in the gasket and has been corrected. also i know pontiac is replacing head gaskets that leak for free for 6year/60k miles. other than that i have found my quad4 to be completely solid and the direct ignition system means no wires/rotor/rotor-cap to ever deal with. also hydrolic lifters mean no valve adjustments ever. i'm not badmouthing the integra engine, i just think you are going overboard on slamming the quad4. you are quite correct that the integra engine is quieter, although i would not say smoother, my quad4 loves to rev, especially at the high-end. do you have any evidence of blocks cracking on quad4s? i have not heard of this. ",7 "Re: Finnally, the Phils have support In article , philly@bach.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes: > In article <1993Apr3.182452.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes: > >>>Everytime I have written on the net about the possibility of a >>>successfuls season by the Philadelphia Phillies, I have gotten ripped >>>from everybody from Pittsburgh to Calcutta. But if all the >>>ignoramouses, care to look at this week's Baseball Weekly, they will see >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>that I'm not the only one who considers then as division winners - the >>>rest of the most respected baseball writers in the country do as well. >> > >>And what was the reasoning of this genius writer? That, even though their >>pitching is at best ""sound"", they will win on the strength of their offense. >>Lesse: >> '93 offense = '92 offense + (Thompson & Incaviglia) >> >> '92 offense = 72 wins >> '93 division winners = (at least) 88 wins >> >>So, >> 88 wins = 72 wins + (Thompson & Incaviglia) >> >>Therefore, >> 16 wins = Thompson & Incaviglia >> >>What did you learn in school today? >> >>If you take a math course and your teacher turns out to be Rob Rains, run, >>don't walk, to drop/add. >> P. Tierney > > You obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about. No, > Thompson and Incaviglia don't equal 16 wins, but I'll take the two > of them over Stan Javier and Ruben Amaro (.249 1HR, 334AB & > .219 7HR 374 AB) I'd say this improvement should equate to 6or 7 > wins at least. > > Then, I'll take Lenny Dykstra who played 85 games last year and > project his numbers (.301, 104 hits, 18 2B's, 6 HR, 39RBI, 30 SB) > over 150 games. Thus(.301, 188 hits, 32 2B's, 11HR, 70RBI, 54 SB) > Okay, now we'll put these numbers in the leadoff hole and thus > I have to bump Kruk, Hollins, Daulton RBI numbers up just a tad... > now lesse... they knocked in 70, 93, and 109 respectively. Don't > you think it's fair to add about 5 or 6 RBI to each? They managed > to knock in a pretty nice amount of runs with a .219 leadoff hitter. > Okay bozo, do you think it's fair to add maybe 7 or 8 more wins > now? Oh, and how can I forget Wes Chamberlain, 275 AB's 9 HR, > 41 RBI even WITH a month and 1/2 in AAA and a horrible first half. > Well project that over a full season to get 18 HR and 80 RBI or so. > Is that worth a win or two? > > Finally, take the *worse* pitching staff in the NL last year, add > the worse injury decimation of 1992. Okay, now we add Danny > jackson, some health, and a full season for Schilling... is that > worth at least 3 wins? > > Okay we've been conservative and added about 18 wins so far. Now > we're adding about 4 more wins thanks to the expansion teams... > Okay, thats 22 wins. Lesse dipshit math genuious, 72 + 22 = 94 > Hmmm... I think thats good enough to win the worse division in > baseball? > > Next time, before you say something foolish, get a clue first! > > Actually, I was simply relaying the reasoning of this so-called genius BW writer. I agree. The reasoning was foolish. Next time, before you say something foolish, be aware what you are responding to. BTW, 94 wins. Very funny. P. Tierney ",9 "Ethernet to LocalTalk On a Quadra? I have used both my serial ports with a modem and a serial printer, so I cannot use Appletalk. Is there a Ethernet to Localtalk hardware that will let me use the Ethernet port on my Q700 as a Localtalk port. Until they come out with satellite dishes that sit on your window & give you internet access from your home, I won't at all be using that port. Saurabh. ",4 "Re: Principle_of_the_Breathalyzer william burchill (williamb@ee.ubc.ca) wrote: : Does anybody out there know how the hand held breathalyzer used : by our police works? I would like to hear about this and the more : general problem of detecting smells by machine. : : Thanks, William. : : williamb@ee.ubc.ca : From what I have read about these little gadgets, it works on a electrochemical galvanic principle. The sensing unit has a chemical matrix which produces an electrical voltage proportional to the amount of chemical compound it is designed for ... in this case I believe it is the Hydroxyl group??? I have also heard - not tested :-) - since common gasoline is also a member of this Hydroxyl group, it will also cause a failing breathalizer failure! Next time you get stopped for DUI, say you just siphoned gas from your neighbors car (you know..... the Oklahoma credit card) and chances are you won't get a DUI ticket!!!! Jerry Long long@spk.hp.com **************************************** Disclaimer.... Opinions are my own and do NOT reflect those of my employer. **************************************** ",12 "Re: eye dominance In article <19671@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes: >In article rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes: >> >>Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an >>overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most >>people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the >>other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this? > >There is eye dominance same as handedness (and usually for the >same side). It has nothing to do with refractive error, however. I recall reading/seeing that former baseball star Chris Chambliss' hitting abilities were (in part) attributed to a combination of left-handedness & right-eye dominance. ",13 "Life on Mars??? What is the deal with life on Mars? I save the ""face"" and heard associated theories. (which sound thin to me) Are we going back to Mars to look at this face agian? Does anyone buy all the life theories? -- Don Schiewer | Internet schiewer@pa881a.inland.com | Onward Great Inland Steel | UUCP: !uucp!pa881a.inland!schiewer | Stream... ",14 "Florida Vacation Package for Sale Hello, this package is the right thing for you if you are planning a short vacation in central Florida. For $169, you get: --Four nights in first class hotels for two adults and up to three children. Two nights each in Orlendo and Daytona Beach. You will pay additional state tax of $3/day (required by law). --A great coupon book for major tourist atractions, restaurants, etc. --Fully transferable. It expires at 9/16/93. Can be extended for a whole year for only $20 more. --you need to make reservation 45 days in advance otherwise the availability of hotel is not ganranteed. --Price negotiable. The reason I am selling it is because I missed the deadline of using it for last Chrismas. If interested, email ll12@midway.uchicago.edu ",6 "Re: So Why Does Clayton Cramer Fixate on Molesting Children In article <1993Apr04.071624.14068@armory.com> (talk.politics.misc,alt.sex,soc.men), rstevew@armory.com (Richard Steven Walz) writes: ] In article <93093.073457RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes: ] > I think the dialogue would go better if (at least some) gays ] >showed awareness of a practical issue. For example. men and women use ] >different toilets. Hence men who are likely to abuse girls have that ] >avenue closed to them. There are many other situations where it is easy ] >to prevent sexual abuse BETWEEN the two sexes through such measures and ] >social conventions. It is harder to prevent it with gays but if those ] >gays who do not abuse children (nor want to) became aware that this is ] >a practical problem that we can solve with good will on both sides, then ] >we can have protection for parents and children at the same time as ] >protection for gays in those ways that are of importance to their ] >pursuit of happiness in their own way. ] > ] >Just a thought ] > ] >Rohit Parikh ] ------------------- ] Sorry, Rohit, but you are responding to someone well-recognized as a ] flaming nut, i.e., Clayton Cramer. He must have been abused by a man and is ] living his life in an attempt to vilify all men who like sex with other men ] something slightly similar to the way his assailant liked it with him. He ] will alter or misrepresent anything he finds to try to prove that there are ] homosexuals who wish to rape little boys like he was coming out of the ] woodwork. There is no hope for him. In all probability he is secretly gay, ] which compounds his neurosis in his own mind, by thinking that someone else ] made him that way. I don't personally see how someone like him could walk ] and chew gum at the same time, as mentally crippled and dominated as he is ] by his fantasies. ] ] He would have you believe that the figures on the percentage of people who ] like to do it with the same sex sometime or all the time is way smaller ] than it is, but then he will virtually assert that everyone's queer and ] they're trying to get him. He actually believes, despite all evidence that ] homosexuals do some huge disproportionate amount of child sexual abuse, ] even though he insists that there may be as few as 1% of them in the male ] population! If there were that few of them in the population, San Francisco ] would currently be empty, because a significant portion of them have sought ] a tolerant atmosphere in that city, and the numbers simply do not work when ] you add up their home town origins. There is nothing to be gained by ] communicating with Clayton Cramer, he is unable to listen to anyone. ] -RSW ] ] ] -- ] * Richard STEVEn Walz rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (408) 429-1200 * ] * 515 Maple Street #1 * Without safe and free abortion women are * ] * Santa Cruz, CA 95060 organ-surrogates to unwanted parasites.* * ] * Real Men would never accept organ-slavery and will protect Women. * Sorry, but I don't see how the response applies to what was posted. Unless I am badly mistaken, Rohit is suggesting that protecting boys from men is different than protecting girls from men. There are situations in which boys and girls are apart from members of the *opposite* sex (due to social convention or whatever) and thus are safe (in at least some sense). These same situations don't (necessarily) protect the children from abuse by members of the *same* sex. If we can understand that, it's not such a tremendous leap to suggest that if we all think about it hard, *someone* may come up with a practical solution (or even a partial solution) to some of the situations in which children are made vulnerable to homosexuals who wish to abuse them. By working together ""with good will on both sides"", we may be able to start solving problems without restricting anyone's freedoms. Mr. Walz on the other hand is using Rohit's post as an excuse for personal attacks on Mr. Cramer. While Mr. Walz hasn't (by a *long* stretch) been the only one to flame Mr. Cramer, it is no less childish and it only serves to weaken any other arguments he may make in the future. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Rick Roy Usenet: rick@howtek.MV.com America Online: QED Disclaimer: My employer's views are orthogonal to these. The early bird got worms. ",18 "Re: More Diamond SS 24X dil.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Dave Laudicina) writes: >Has anyone experienced a faint shadow at all resolutions using this >card. Is only in Windows. I have replaced card and am waiting on >latest drivers. Also have experienced General Protection Fault Errors >in WSPDPSF.DRV on Winword Tools Option menu and in WINFAX setup. >I had a ATI Ultra but was getting Genral Protection Fault errors >in an SPSS application. These card manufactures must have terrible >quality control to let products on the market with so many bugs. >What a hassle. Running on Gateway 2000 DX2/50. >Thx Dave L Might the problem not be with the video monitor instead? Many of our monitors, as they age, develop shadows on white and bright colors. -- Peter Goudswaard _________ _________ goudswaa@sfu.ca (preferred) | | __/^\__ | | pgoudswa@cln.etc.bc.ca | | \ / | | pgoudswa@cue.bc.ca | | _/\_\ /_/\_ | | | | > < | | ""There's no gift like the present"" | >_________< | | - Goudswaard's observation |_________| | |_________| ",2 "Re: Metal powder,steel,iron. I just love these posts from the ex-Soviet Union. Among the cars, dinette sets, video cameras, etc. every now and then an ad pops up for bee venom, RED OXIDE OF MERCURY, cobalt (100 tons minimum order), etc. Don't they have garage sales in Russia? :-) ",6 "Re: Desertification of the Negev Danhy, As you think Bedouin will be surprised by the posted article, I would be happy to have some feedback from Bedouin readers, if you will. I cannot judge the accuracy of the article, but assumes that it is no fabrication. Any critical review would be helpful. Elias ",17 "Re: Bases loaded walk gives Reds win in 12 In article <1993Apr23.185931.6509@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: >In article mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes: >>In article <1993Apr23.120044.15627@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: >> >>>For predicting the future, it has been entirely meaningless. At least >>>if it has meaning, we don't know how to find it. >> >>I did not say I could predict the future. > >You most certainly did! I really don't want to get into a DidSo-DidNot debate with you. But this is somewhat at the heart of our disagreement. I did not say, nor did I imply, that I could predict the future. You have inferred that my comments meant this, and you have based your rebuttal of my comments on the fact that statistical studies have demonstrated that there is no reasonable basis for predicting future performance in regard to clutch hitting. Sabo 1539 452 .294 259 59 .228 Samuel 1564 383 .245 278 83 .299 > >Sabo is clearly a better hitter than Samuel. Yet you would pinch-hit >Samuel because you predict that Samuel will be a clutch hitter and >Sabo will be a choke hitter. Right? I'd call that ""predicting the >future"". That is *your* opinion that Sabo is ""clearly a better hitter"" than Samuel. The above data is for a 4-year period ending last season. Last season Samuel batted .272 while Sabo hit .244 (not park adjusted). This season they are both hitting below .200, albeit Sabo with more at bats. I will agree that over his career Sabo has been a better hitter than Samuel, but I will also remind you that Samuel has been a better hitter in certain situations than Sabo. I did not predict that Sabo would choke, nor that Samuel would get a hit. I expressed my opinion that had I been the Reds manager (or even a Reds fan) that I would prefer to have Samuel hit in that situation than Sabo. >>If you were to have been the Reds manager at that time, I assume you >>would have had some basis for letting Sabo hit rather than pinch- >>hitting Samuel. I'm sure some of that basis would have utilized >>prior performance. You just wouldn't have used this particular >>aspect of prior performance. Is this not correct? > >Right. I would have used aspects of prior performance which have been >shown to be consistent in the past. Overall performance, L/R splits, >even matching hitting/pitching styles. All of these will give me some >advantage if used properly. Ah. ""properly"". Yes. I see. >EVEN IF ALL ELSE WERE EQUAL, there would be no advantage gained by >looking at past clutch performance. And in this case, everything else >pointed to Sabo. Please help me. What, exactly, is ""everything else"" that pointed to Sabo? >Well, yes. You are aware of its existance. You claim to be incapable >of understanding it (though I suspect you are simply unwilling). Yet >you rather forcefully state the opposite. You don't seem to think the >work is worth reading (yet you obviously feel the topic is important). >I'd say this is insulting. I must say, I was not aware of the publication. Can you email me the information regarding its availability? And I guess I must apologize to all of those who have done extensive study on, say, supply side economics. I didn't mean to insult you. But I never did believe you were on the right path. I'm sorry for my contrary opinion/position. I also regret that I don't have the ability to prove that you are wrong. But you are. >>I believe that by >>season's end that Chris Sabo's batting average in clutch situations >>will be significantly lower than his batting average in non-clutch >>situations. I can't prove that it will happen, so I guess we'll >>just have to wait and see. > >Is this simply a prediction for Chris Sabo for this year? Or is this >a prediction for *all* batters who have, over the past few years, hit >(xxx amount?) worse in the clutch than overall? It is what it says it is! >If you mean the first, then as you say, we'll just have to wait and >see. But the second is a much stronger statement. In fact, it >suggests a rule. We can then test this rule on past data to see if it >worked for recent years. I think you will agree that if the rule >didn't work last year or the year before, that it is unlikely to do >any better this year. Right? The ""second"" is *your* statement, not mine. > > >I'm not going to get into case analysis. Sure, you can find somebody >who hit poorly from '89-'91 and then hit poorly in '92 as well. You >can also find those who hit poorly from '89-'91 and then hit *well* in >'92. Well, actually, I haven't yet. But I'm not finished looking. That is, I haven't yet found someone who hit significantly below his overall batting average in clutch situations for the years 1989 - 91, and then reversed that relationship in 1992. >Gambler's fallacy. Unless there is reason to expect consistency, a >run proves nothing. Can you give us a reason to expect clutch BA to >correlate from one year to the next? I've seen a detailed study of >why I *shouldn't* expect it to correlate. Nope. Sorry. But if you were interested in a reason why I expect Chris Sabo's ability to hit in the clutch to correlate from one year to the next, I think I could. If you were interested in a reason why I expect Joe Carter's ability to hit in the clutch to correlate from one year to the next, I think I could. But you're not interested in that, because you think that those conclusions could only be valid if they could be extrapolated over the entire baseball population. And they can't be. >The ""stupid"" was in reference to a statement which *was* stupid. (And >I don't see how you can deny it.) As for ""total idiot""? Yes. If you >prove yourself unwilling to even *consider* evidence that might >suggest that you are wrong, I would say the term fits nicely. The problem here is that I *do* believe you. I accept your work. I believe that trying to predict future clutch performance based on prior clutch history is meaningless. No better than a coin toss. I actually *do* accept your work. As it happens, I also have an *opinion* that in certain situations, for certain players, a history of superior or inferior ability to hit in the clutch might suggest a reason what such history could be valid in projecting future player performance. For that player. And Chris Sabo is one such player. >So tell me? Does the term fit? Or do you have an open mind? Well, since I defer to your statistical wisdom, I think I must have an open mind. Now we have to pose the same question to you. -- The Beastmaster -- Mark Singer mss@netcom.com ",9 "Re: Opinions on Eli & Denny Show So THAT'S what happened to Denny McLain. Sad. For those of you who are interested, another baseball pariah, Pete Rose, has a weekday radio show on the Sports and Entertainment national radio network. I think it's 3-5 PM locally, 6-8 PM on the East coast. And actually, his on-air monologues about the baseball business sounds a lot more reasonable and articulate than what I hear from the Ray Knights of the world. -- Greg ""Mockingbird"" Franklin ""Interracial mixing encompasses a lot lot more f67709907@ccit.arizona.edu than mingling between G7 races."" -- robohen Stodgy Things Argument by an inept speaker. Ignorant sermonizing. A drinking bout without hors d'oeuvres. A dried-up sword sheath held together by threads. Questioning by a boy favorite about one's other affairs. -- Inumakura (The Dog Pillow) ",9 "Re: National Sales Tax, The Movie golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: > >(the VAT in Canada is visible unlike the invisible VATS they >have in Europe) Also, note that the VAT in Canada, called the GST, was always there in a hidden form as a manufacturers' wholesale tax. It was reconfigured to be visible, and is not a new tax ... but retailers taking a free price hike during the transition did make it a new tax *in practice* until some prices finally did get rolled back when the private sector quietly realized that they had shot themselves in the foot (at least relieved that the Tories took the heat, not themselves --- but the writing was on the wall). gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",18 "Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years..... kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) writes: > Let's say that we drop a marble into the black hole. It races, ever faster, >towards the even horizon. But, thanks to the curving of space caused by the >excessive gravity, as the object approaches the event horizon it has further to >travel. Integrating the curve gives a time to reach the event horizon of . . . >infinity. So the math says that nothing can enter a black hole. Don't think so. It would become a singularity in a few miliseconds. Jack ",0 "ALR ProVeisa If anyone has any experience with the ALR ProVEISA 486DX2 system I would be interested to hear your impressions of it, and of ALR in general. Thank you. /mark --- * WinQwk 2.0b#108 * Mark Seltzer,28 Ravina Cres,Toronto,Ont M4J 3M1,Canada. RoseMail 2.10 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285 ",3 "xdm and env. vars Hi, I am using xdm on X11R5 with OW3 and Xview3 on Sun3s and SPARCs running SunOS 4.1.1. Prior to using xdm, I used to set PATH and other environment variables (like MANPATH, HELPPATH, ARCH, etc) in my .login file. With xdm, the .login file doesn't get executed and therefore neither the olwm root-window nor my applications know about these variables. I used the ""DisplayManager._0.userPath"" resource in /usr/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-config to succesfully pass the PATH variable. But I am having problems passing anything else!!! I tried execing $HOME/.login in /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession but that didn't help. I also tried using ""DisplayManager.exportList: HELPPATH MANPATH ARCH"" which didn't work either. I would appreciate any help on this matter. Thanks in advance, Shash +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Shash Chatterjee EMAIL: fwr8bv@fin.af.mil + + EC Software PHONE: (817) 763-1495 + + Lockheed Fort Worth Company FAX: (817) 777-2115 + + P.O. Box 748, MZ1719 + + Ft. Worth, TX 76101 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",5 "Re: ""Imaginary"" Friends - Info and Experiences In article <1993Apr2.041929.24320@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kditto@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kimborly Ditto) writes: > >Concerniong this thread... > >Has anyone ever seen ""Drop Dead Fred"" ?? THis movie seems to tipify the >""imaginary friend"" theme rather well. I LOVED the movie, as i had an >imaginary friend when i was a kid and it borught back great memories. > >Seriously, if you have a chance, see ""Drop Dead Fred"". It'll make ya >think. especially the end. > >Blessings! >--Kim > -- Patrick Brosnan. || ...!mcsun!ukc!stc!patb Northern Telecomm, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. Phone : +44 81 945 2135 or +44 81 945 4000 x2135 ""Oh, Flash, I love you - but we've only got 14 hours to save the universe."" ",19 "Re: Stop The SeXularHumanistOppression { former my beloved Damn Ferigner's Be Taken Over} In article <15APR199303031064@reg.triumf.ca> vincent@reg.triumf.ca (pete) writes: >In article , irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu >(Brent Irvine) writes... >` >` ""54-40"" or fight was about a territorial dispute with >` British Canada, again OLD STUFF. > >Uh, not quite. The 54/40' boundary dispute is still unresolved, >and Canadian and US Coast Guard vessels regularly if infrequently >detain each other's fish boats in the disputed waters off Dixon >Entrance. The only reason you don't hear more about it is that >it's in neither country's interest to aggravate the quarrel. >That doesn't mean that either country is prepared to back down, >especially the local political representatives whose constituents >are all fishermen. Fishing rights are disputed. Between 2 nations, no matter *how* friendly, there is ALWAYS fishing disputes. What I was getting at was the 54 40' or fight slogan is OLD STUFF dealing with the LAND dispute. No one is saying 54 40' or fight about fishing rights. The territorial dispute about the Oregon Territory (we called it) is LONG resolved. Fishing rights...small potatoes. -- <><><><><><><><><><> Personal opinions? Why, <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <> BRENT IRVINE <> yes. What did you think <> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu <> <><><><><><><><><><> they were?....... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ",18 "Re: The 25MHz IIsi Re: Methods for attaching heat sink to processor. Go to Radio Shack and buy a tube of heat sink compound. It comes in a little blue and white tube with a black screw on cap. At Radio Shack, it's catalog number 276-1372. It's a mix of silicone and zinc oxide, and conducts heat very well. Plus, it's tacky. Usually, you would smear a bit between the chip and the sink, and then bolt or clamp the sink down, but if you don't move your Mac, gravity and the stickiness of the goo should be more than suffcient to hold things in place. Just make sure you remember it's in there, in case you tilt your Mac and jar it hard enough to shake it loose. You wouldn't want a loose piece of metal running around inside your Mac. ",4 "Re: There must be a creator! (Maybe) In article <16BA1E927.DRPORTER@SUVM.SYR.EDU>, DRPORTER@SUVM.SYR.EDU (Brad Porter) writes: > > Science is wonderful at answering most of our questions. I'm not the type >to question scientific findings very often, but... Personally, I find the >theory of evolution to be unfathomable. Could humans, a highly evolved, >complex organism that thinks, learns, and develops truly be an organism >that resulted from random genetic mutations and natural selection? [...stuff deleted...] Computers are an excellent example...of evolution without ""a"" creator. We did not ""create"" computers. We did not create the sand that goes into the silicon that goes into the integrated circuits that go into processor board. We took these things and put them together in an interesting way. Just like plants ""create"" oxygen using light through photosynthesis. It's a much bigger leap to talk about something that created ""everything"" from nothing. I find it unfathomable to resort to believing in a creator when a much simpler alternative exists: we simply are incapable of understanding our beginnings -- if there even were beginnings at all. And that's ok with me. The present keeps me perfectly busy. -jim halat ",0 "Re: Why is my mouse so JUMPY? (MS MOUSE) : ecktons@ucs.byu.edu (Sean Eckton) writes: : : >I have a Microsoft Serial Mouse and am using mouse.com 8.00 (was using 8.20 : >I think, but switched to 8.00 to see if it was any better). Vertical motion : >is nice and smooth, but horizontal motion is so bad I sometimes can't click : >on something because my mouse jumps around. I can be moving the mouse to : >the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly : >for a bit, then jump to the right, then move smoothly for a bit then jump : >again (maybe this time to the left about .5 inch!). This is crazy! I have : >never had so much trouble with a mouse before. Anyone have any solutions? Here is another hint: I have a really jumping mouse (ps2 type), and finally the mouse stops jump changing HIMEM.SYS (yes, himem!), is you use: DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS /M:x x can be 1,2,...,8 (Of course my computer DON'T appear on the list for these parameter) And maybe, your mouse can stop jump... (But your problem looks more like a dirty mouse ;)... Hope it help (to anybody!) Alejandro Cifuentes H. acifuent@isluga.puc.cl ",2 "Re: WP-PCF, Linux, RISC? Dear friend, The RISC means ""reduced instruction set computer"". The RISC usually has small instruction set so as to reduce the circuit complex and can increase the clock rate to have a high performance. You can read some books about computer architecture for more information about RISC. ghhwang@csie.nctu.edu.tw form R.O.C TaiwaN ",2 "Re: Can OS/2 talk to Windows for Workgroups? tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes: > Can I run WFW 's NET utilities in a DOS box? Or is there a way to actually > get OS/2 to talk to WFW? Will OS/2 LanMan clients talk to WFW? Following up to my own article... I found that several people say that LAN Server clients can talk to WFW. Is this, then, also true for LAN Manager? (Don't LAN Server and LAN Manager share common roots?) > Dazed and confused, Somewhat less so now... :) -- [ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ] [ ""stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth. now pull ] [ up. that's how the corrado makes you feel."" -- car, january '93 ] ",2 "Electronics Panasonic KX-T3000H, Combo black cordless & speaker phone all in one. new- $160, now- $100 + shipping OBO. Curtis Mathes VHS VCR Remote included and it works with universal remotes. Works great but I replaced it with a Stereo VCR. paid $300 years ago, will sell for $125 delivered OBO. Radio Shack stereo amp. 2 inputs, tone, and left and right volume. Speakers not included. $20 plus shipping. If you are interested in either of the above mail me at radley@gibbs.oit.unc.edu or call me, Keith, at 919-968-7779. PS- I made a type on my email address the first posting. It is now correct. _ _ // Major: Computer Science / <3321628@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes: >Why are we continuously putting down other universities? Queen's is not >as great as is makes itself out to be. This place has only got a good rep >because it's been here so long. If someone would take the time to look around >and see how dissatisfied people are with the disorganization and the constant >misuse of the Bell Curve they could see that Queen's needs some major >improvements. I would personally start with hiring professors who can >actually teach, not people who are here with the attitude that this place >would be okay if it wasn't for all the students running around. When did George Bell (ex-Blue Jay) learn to throw a curve? ",9 "Re: Guns for Space Okay, lets get the record straight on the Livermore gas gun. The project manager is Dr. John Hunter, and he works for the Laser group at Livermore. What, you may ask, does gas guns have to do with lasers? Nothing, really, but the gun is physically located across the road from the Free Electron Laser building, and the FEL building has a heavily shielded control room (thick walls) from which the gun firings are controlled. So I suspect that the office he works for is an administrative convenience. I visited Hunter at the beginning of Feb. and we toured the gun. At the time I was working on gas gun R&D at Boeing, where I work, but I am now doing other things (helping to save the space station), The gun uses a methane-air mixture, which is burned in a chamber about 200 ft long by 16 inch ID (i.e. it looks like a pipe). The chamber holds a 1 ton piston which is propelled at several hundred m/s down the chamber. On the other side of the piston is hudrogen gas, initially at room temperature andsome tens of atmospheres. The piston compresses and heats the hydrogen ahead of it until a stainless steel burst diaphragm ruptures, at around 50,000 psi. The barrel of the gun is about 100 feet long and has a 4 inch bore. It is mounted at right angles to the chamber (i.e. they intersect). This was done so that in the future, the barrel could be raised and the gun fired into the air without having to move the larger and heavier chamber. The projectile being used in testing is a 5 kg cylinder of Lexan plastic, 4 in in diameter and about 50 cm long. All of the acceleration comes from the expansion of the hydrogen gas from 50,000 psi downwards until the projectile leaves the barrel. The barrel is evacuated, and the end is sealed with a sheet of plastic film (a little thicker than Saran wrap). The plastic is blown off by the small amount of residual air trapped in the barrel ahead of the projectile. The gun is fired into a bunker filled with sandbags and plastic water jugs. In the early testing fragments of the plastic projectile were found. At the higher speeds in later testing, the projectile vaporizes. The testing is into a bunker because the Livermore test range is about 3 miles across, and the projectile would go 100-200 km if fired for maximum range. The intent is to move the whole gun to Vandenberg AFB after the testing is complete, where they can fire into the Pacific Ocean, and use the tracking radar at VAFB to follow the projectiles. The design goal of the gun is to throw a 5 kg projectile at 4 km/s (half of orbital speed). So far they have reached 2 km/s, and the gun is currently down for repairs, as on the last test they blew a seal and damaged some of the hardware (I think it had to do with the methane-air more detonating than burning, but I haven't had a chance to talk to Hunter directly on this). There are people waiting to test scramjet components in this gun by firing then out of the gun into the air (at Mach 12= 4 km/s), since the most you can get in wind tunnels is Mach 8. This gun cost about 4 million to develop, and is basically a proof-of-concept for a bigger gun capable of firing useful- sized payloads into space. This would require on the order of 100 kg projectiles, which deliver on the order of 20 kg useful payload to orbit. Dani Eder -- Dani Eder/Meridian Investment Company/(205)464-2697(w)/232-7467(h)/ Rt.1, Box 188-2, Athens AL 35611/Location: 34deg 37' N 86deg 43' W +100m alt. ",14 "Re: FOR SALE - KENWOOD Receiver In article <1r7ual$a9u@venus.haverford.edu> jburgin@ralph.cs.haverford.edu (Joshua Marc Burgin) writes: >FOR SALE: > >Kenwood Audio/Visual Surround sound Receiver Just a follow-up note, I have sold the receiver, so don't e-mail or call me anymore. Sorry to dissapoint anyone. Joshua ",6 "Re: Soyuz and Shuttle Comparisons In article <511151978@ofa123.fidonet.org> David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org writes: >The most revealing comparison between Shuttle and Soyuz is cost. All >other comparisons are apples and oranges. > >--- Maximus 2.01wb I like this statement, though for my own reasons. Cost comparisons depend a lot on whether the two options are similar, and *then* it becomes very revealing to consider what their differences are. Can Soyuz launch the Long Exposure Facility? Course not. Will the Shuttle take my television relay to LEO by year's end? Almost certainly not, but the Russians are pretty good about making space accessible on a tight schedule. Comparing S and SS points up that there are TWO active space launcher-and-work-platform resources, with similarities and differences. Where they are in direct competition, we may get to see some market economics come into play. tombaker -------------------------------------- My employer's opinions are not my own. I am self-employed. ",14 "Check your purchase ! (Was Re: DAT drives). schwarze@delphi.nosc.mil (David Schwarze) writes: > We bought one from Relax technologies. BIG mistake. The drive >had some jumpers set incorrectly so it didn't work at first, and the >software they shipped with it was incompatable with the drive (it was the >new compression model), and worst of all, when I opened the drive up to >fiddle with the jumpers, I found the inside of the case COVERED WITH METAL >FILINGS!!! Sorry to shout. Apparently when they drilled the mounting holes >in the case they forgot to clean it before putting the drive in. This was >a HP drive, by the way, and is now working fine (knock on wood), no thanks >to Relax technologies. I have found that you should observe the following with almost all new equipment : Check for warrany tape. If none, carefully open unit. Inspect for loose wires, jumpers, screws, and other trash. Clean up these manufacturing mistakes. *Now* power up the unit and check it out. I can't think of how many things I've bought that weren't okay right out of the box due to sloppy QC. - Jonathan PS : This goes for any manufacturer. I'm not picking on anyone. -- Internet: musjndx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu Fidonet: Jonathan Deitch@1:133/411.7 jdeitch@gisatl.fidonet.org Bellnet: 1 - (404) - 261 - 3665 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Atlanta 1996 !! | Play Pinball !! | Don't Panic ! | ""I hate it when I can't --------------------------------------------------| trust my own technology!"" ""Thrills! Chills! Magic! Prizes!"" -- Hurricane | -- Geordi LaForge Gene Roddenberry, Isaac Asimov, Jim Henson, Dr. Seuss, Mel Blanc ... Sigh ... ",4 "Re: Who is Henry Spencer anyway? On Sat, 15 May 1993 01:45:54 GMT, hansk@aie.nl (Hans Kinwel) said: Hans> As somebody replied on whether the space shuttle is connected to Hans> Usenet: ""No. Of course the main flow of information would be up, Hans> unless Henry Spencer would be aboard, in which case the main Hans> flow of information would be down."" Gene Miya says that Henry will never go aloft in the Shuttle; the payload bay isn't big enough for his chocolate chip cookies. When Henry was here at Dryden, he was looking pretty covetously at the SR-71s and the F-104s, even though they don't have much cookie space. I guess he figured that he could manage for a short flight.... -- Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA ""A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all."" Unknown US fighter pilot ",14 "Re: BMW MOA members read this! In article <1993Apr15.065731.23557@cs.cornell.edu> karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr) writes: [riveting BMWMOA election soap-opera details deleted] >Well, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of alternative candidates. >Obviously you're not voting for Mr. Vechorik, but what about the >others? I'm going to buy a BMW just to cast a vote for Groucho. Ride safe, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Cliff Weston DoD# 0598 '92 Seca II (Tem) | | | | This bike is in excellent condition. | | I've done all the work on it myself. | | | | -- Glen ""CRASH"" Stone | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",8 "Re: Keith Schneider - Stealth Poster? sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >>To borrow from philosophy, you don't truly understand the color red >>until you have seen it. >Not true, even if you have experienced the color red you still might >have a different interpretation of it. But, you wouldn't know what red *was*, and you certainly couldn't judge it subjectively. And, objectivity is not applicable, since you are wanting to discuss the merits of red. keith ",0 "Re: dogs In article , mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (Mark Crispin) writes: |> I'm a biker and a dog-lover. No wonder bikers have such a horrid reputation. Go find a HUMAN! |> The interesting thing about dogs is that body language communicates a great |> deal to them. The more effective you are at communicating body language, the |> less you actually have to do. I agree completely. Unfortunately, the majority of my feelings, before I can even start to think rationally abhout the dog that is trying to kill me, are fear. When there's been a moment to set up, like you said ""a bit down the road"" or whatever, I've never had a problem with dogs. --- Curt Howland ""Ace"" DoD#0663 EFF#569 howland@nsipo.nasa.gov '82 V45 Sabre Meddle not in the afairs of Wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to re-light. ",8 "Re: Religion and marriage pboxrud@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Paul D Boxrud) writes: > I wasn't sure if this was the right newsgroup to post this to, but I guess >the misc is there for a reason. Here goes... I am getting married in June to >a devout (Wisconsin Synod) Lutheran. I would classify myself as a strong >agnostic/weak athiest. This has been a a subject of many discussions between >us and is really our only real obstacle. We don't have any real difficulties >with the religious differences yet, but I expect they will pop up when we have >children. I have agreed to raise the >children ""nominally"" Lutheran. That is, Lutheran traditions, but trying to >keep an open mind. I am not sure if this is even possible though. I feel that >that the worst quality of being devoutly religous is the lack of an open mind. just a point, i suppose, if open mind means believing anything can be true or we can't for sure know what is definitely true, i'm happy to not be open minded. if, however, open mindedness means being respectful and tolerant towards other beliefs, respecting the rights and intelligence and wisdom of people of other beliefs and giving equal time to alternative ideas, i try my very best to be open minded. just a thot in passing.... :) > Anyway, I guess I'll get on with my question. Is anyone in the same >situation and can give some suggestions as to how to deal with this? We've >taken the attitude so far of just talking about it a lot and not letting >anything get bottled up inside. Sometimes I get the feeling we're making this >much bigger than it actually is. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. >Also, please e-mail responses since I don't get a chance to read this group >often. :-( not being married, i cannot say too much to you, but from my perspective having mutually exclusive faiths would be a big enough roadblock for me in considering marrying someone. making it much bigger than it is? i suppose that depends on how serious each of you is in your beliefs. lukewarm atheists and christians for whom religion is of nominal importance probly would feel the issue isn't very big. i suppose the more important your beliefs are to each of you, the more important the issue is. >Paul ",19 "Dir Yassin (was Re: no-Free man propaganda machine: Freeman, with blood greetings from Israel) In article <1993Apr13.141518.13900@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> hasan@McRCIM.McGill.EDU writes: CHECK MENAHEM BEGIN DAIRIES (published book) you'll find accounts of the massacres there including Deir Yassen, though with the numbers of massacred men, children and women are greatly minimized. As per request of Hasan: From _The Revolt_, by Menachem Begin, Dell Publishing, NY, 1977: [pp. 225-227] ""Apart from the military aspect, there is a moral aspect to the story of Dir Yassin. At that village, whose name was publicized throughout the world, both sides suffered heavy casualties. We had four killed and nearly forty wounded. The number of casualties was nearly forty percent of the total number of the attackers. The Arab troops suffered casualties neraly three times as heavy. The fighting was thus very severe. Yet the hostile propaganda, disseminated throughout the world, deliberately ignored the fact that the civilian population of Dir Yassin was actually given a warning by us before the battle began. One of our tenders carrying a loud speaker was stationed at the entrance to the village and it exhorted in Arabic all women, children and aged to leave their houses and to take shelter on the slopes of the hill. By giving this humane warning our fighters threw away the element of complete surprise, and thus increased their own risk in the ensuing battle. A substantial number of the inhabitants obeyed the warning and they were unhurt. A few did not leave their stone houses - perhaps because of the confusion. The fire of the enemy was murderous - to which the number of our casualties bears eloquent testimony. Our men were compelled to fight for every house; to overcome the enemy they used large numbers of hand grenades. And the civilians who had disregarded our warnings suffered inevitable casualties. ""The education which we gave our soldiers throughout the years of revolt was based on the observance of the traditional laws of war. We never broke them unless the enemy first did so and thus forced us, in accordance with the accepted custom of war, to apply reprisals. I am convinced, too, that our officers and men wished to avoid a single unnecessary casualty in the Dir Yassin battle. But those who throw stones of denunciation at the conquerors of Dir Yassin [1] would do well not to don the cloak of hypocrisy [2]. ""In connection with the capture of Dir Yassin the Jewish Agency found it necessary to send a letter of apology to Abdullah, whom Mr. Ben Gurion, at a moment of great political emotion, called 'the wise ruler who seeks the good of his people and this country.' The 'wise ruler,' whose mercenary forces demolished Gush Etzion and flung the bodies of its heroic defenders to birds of prey, replied with feudal superciliousness. He rejected the apology and replied that the Jews were all to blame and that he did not believe in the existence of 'dissidents.' Throughout the Arab world and the world at large a wave of lying propaganda was let loose about 'Jewish attrocities.' ""The enemy propaganda was designed to besmirch our name. In the result it helped us. Panic overwhelmed the Arabs of Eretz Israel. Kolonia village, which had previously repulsed every attack of the Haganah, was evacuated overnight and fell without further fighting. Beit-Iksa was also evacuated. These two places overlooked the main road; and their fall, together with the capture of Kastel by the Haganah, made it possible to keep open the road to Jerusalem. In the rest of the country, too, the Arabs began to flee in terror, even before they clashed with Jewish forces. Not what happened at Dir Yassin, but what was invented about Dir Yassin, helped to carve the way to our decisive victories on the battlefield. The legend of Dir Yassin helped us in particular in the saving of Tiberias and the conquest of Haifa."" [1] (A footnote from _The Revolt_, pp.226-7.) ""To counteract the loss of Dir yassin, a village of strategic importance, Arab headquarters at Ramallah broadcast a crude atrocity story, alleging a massacre by Irgun troops of women and children in the village. Certain Jewish officials, fearing the Irgun men as political rivals, seized upon this Arab gruel propaganda to smear the Irgun. An eminent Rabbi was induced to reprimand the Irgun before he had time to sift the truth. Out of evil, however, good came. This Arab propaganda spread a legend of terror amongst Arabs and Arab troops, who were seized with panic at the mention of Irgun soldiers. The legend was worth half a dozen battalions to the forces of Israel. The `Dir Yassin Massacre' lie is still propagated by Jew-haters all over the world."" [2] In reference to denunciation of Dir Yassin by fellow Jews. ",17 "Old Sermon (was: Krillean Photography) In article , alex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos) writes: >FLAME ON > >Reading through the posts about Kirlian (whatever spelling) >photography I couldn't help but being slightly disgusted by the >narrow-minded, ""I know it all"", ""I don't believe what I can't see or >measure"" attitude of many people out there. > >I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to >so-called ""paranormal"" stuff; but as far as I'm concerned, it is just >as likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be >quite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis. > >I am convinced that it is a serious mistake to close your mind to >something, ANYTHING, simply because it doesn't fit your current frame >of reference. History shows that many great people, great scientists, >were people who kept an open mind - and were ridiculed by sceptics. > >Especially the USA should be grateful; after all, Columbus did not >drop off the edge of the earth. > >FLAME OFF, or end sermon :-) We know that sermon. It is posted roughly every month or so by different persons, and that doesn't make it any better. How did you get the idea that skeptics are closed-minded? Why don't you consider the possibility that they came to their conclusions by the proper methods? Besides, one can come to a conclusion without closing one's mind to other possibilities. I you don't agree with a person, please ask him why he thinks like that, instead of insulting him. Perhaps he's right. Follow your own advice, be open-minded. If you don't post a bit of evidence for your claims, I'll complain that it's always those ""neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever"" types who narrow-mindedly judge others without knowing their motives. -- thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany The extraterrestrials don't even know this planet has native inhabitants. Their government doesn't tell them. ",13 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article , bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes: |>visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes: |>> |>> They cut off the water, there were no fire trucks present |> |>They refused to bring in fire equipment for fear that the firemen |>would be shot at. Hang on you missed the point entirely, they are protesting the lack of water because it DEPRIVED Koresh of his CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to prove his DIVINITY by WALKING on it. |>>and the FBI/ATF go blasting holes into the builing and firing gas munitions. |> |>They used a tank to knock a hole in the wall, and they released |>non-toxic, non-flammable tear gas into the building. You can tell that the gas did not burn because dispite the fact that the building was full of it there was no flash of gas flame. Phill Hallam-Baker ",19 "Re: Hard drive security for FBI targets In article holland@CS.ColoState.EDU (douglas craig holland) writes: >I'm not a lawyer, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doing that could be >considered obstruction of justice, which could land you in prison for >quite a while. > >The thing that's great about the secret key is it is IDEA encrypted, so >even if the FBI do get the key, they're SOL unless they know the magic >word. If they try to force you to give them your pass phrase, just say >""Oops, I forgot."" Since the burden of proof is still on the prosecution >in this country, if you keep your mouth shut, how can they prove that you >didn't forget your pass phrase. > OK, Doug is right, it would be obstruction of justice, blah blah blah, BUT, saying ""I forgot"" is a lie, which is just as bad from a moral point of view _IF_ you think ""lawfulness"" is a good in and of itself (which admittedly most people do not.) But there's an even better way out of this. PROVIDED the government is prosecuting you criminally, you can probably plead the fifth amendmeent and thus LEGALLY avoid revealing your key. The government cannot demand information from a criminal defendant which ""may tend to incriminate"" that defendant. Though this has never been applied in the cryptography context (at least as far as I can tell) it seems an obvious application to me. This may be a common suggestion in this group, but if it's not (I'm new here) I'd love to hear what people have to say about it. Since I don't really read this group (and since the subject matter is more legal than cryptoid) maybe misc.legal.computing would be an appropriate place? Steve. -- Steve Kramarsky, University of Chicago Law School steve@faerie.chi.il.us -or- smk5@quads.uchicago.edu ""All I did was kiss a girl."" - Jake, the night before his hanging. ",11 "Xterm Cursor Forgive me if this is a FAQ (I have checked the list but I cant find it). I have a problem with the cursor within Xterm on MONO (not grayscale monitors) The problem is that when I have an character application that displays input fields in reverse video the Xterm text cursor gets lost on the edge of the input field. The solution would appear to be to set the xterm cursor to a line rather than a block, but how do you do this. I can't find any means although various sources seem to indicate it can be done. When the xterm loses the input focus the cursor becomes an outlined block. This would also be preferable but I can't seem to force this to be the default either. Configuration is : Motorola 88K X11R4 Please reply by email if poss. Thank you -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Weet - European Mis - Motorola Cellular Subscriber Group Beechgreen Court, Chineham, Basingstoke, HANTS England. Phone : +44 (0)256 790154 E-Mail stevew@chineham.euro.csg.mot.com Fax : +44 (0)256 817481 Mobile : +44 (0)850 335105 Post : w10075 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Weet - European Mis - Motorola Cellular Subscriber Group Beechgreen Court, Chineham, Basingstoke, HANTS England. Phone : +44 (0)256 790154 E-Mail stevew@chineham.euro.csg.mot.com Fax : +44 (0)256 817481 Mobile : +44 (0)850 335105 Post : w10075 ",5 "Re: Radio Shack Battery of the Month Club donrm@sr.hp.com (Don Montgomery) writes: >Radio Shack has canceled their ""Battery of the Month"" Club. Does >anyone know why? >They say they'll honor existing cards in customer hands, but no new >cards will be issued. I was told that this is an environmental based move. I was also told that there will be 'somthing' else to replace the battery club. Like maybe the 360K floppy club ;-). We'll see .... -- *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* * Bill Quinn billq@ms.uky.edu * *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* ",12 "Re:color or Monochrome? Walther, I'd have a look at the maximum resolution the combination of the video card and screen would have without flickering. I'd only suggest using the color screen if it does 800*600 without flickering. If this is not too small for your tastes at a 14"".... Personally I'd prefer the mono-screen as I always have quite a few windows open. If you only run one program at a time or rarely switch maybe the color 'surplus' is worth trading in the smaller size. If you want to develop programs you will always have to check the colors. I used a 14"" mono screen (worst of both worlds) and was surprised how the colors looked I choose on a color screen. Regards, Olaf Winkelhake ",2 "Re: Magnetic tank bags What about disks? Won't it erase them if you're carrying them in the bag? -Cathy *********************************************************** Cathy Saum ............................cs20+@andrew.cmu.edu 1252 S. Negley Ave.#2................'82 Yamaha SECA XJ650 Pgh, PA 15217................'73 CL450 (custom wooden tank) Studio:............................'64 1/2 Mustang (351 V8) (412)521-0363......DoD # supercalifragilisticexpealidotious *********************************************************** ""What we see is what we know, but what we feel is who we are. What we feel is what nobody can ever take away."" -T.M. McNally UNTIL YOUR HEART STOPS ",8 "Re: Choking Ninja Problem In article <1993Apr13.153441.49118@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> starr@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: > I need help with my '85 ZX900A, I put Supertrapp slip-on's on it and > had the carbs re-jetted to match a set of K&N filters that replaced > the stock airbox. Now I have a huge flat spot in the carburation at > about 5 thousand RPM in most any gear. This is especially frustrating > on the highway, the bike likes to cruise at about 80mph which happens > to be 5,0000 RPM in sixth gear. I've had it ""tuned"" and this doesn't > seem to help. I am thinking about new carbs or the injection system > from a GPz 1100. Does anyone have any suggestions for a fix besides > restoring it to stock? > Starr@kuhub.ukans.cc.edu the brain dead."" -Ted Nugent It sound like to me that your carbs are not jetted properly. If you did it yourself, take it to a shop and get it done right. If a shop did it, get your money back, and go to another shop. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |Bennett Leve 84 V-65 Sabre | I'm drowning, throw | |Orlando, FL 73 XL 250 | me a bagel. | |hoggle!hoggle2!bleve@peora.sdc.ccur.com | | ",8 "Bosnian war taking a strategic turn, Bosnians call Europe's Bluff. clarinews@clarinet.com (J.T. NGUYEN) writes: > UNITED NATIONS (UPI) -- The Muslim-dominated government in Bosnia- >Herzegovina asked the U.N. Security Council Tuesday to withdraw all U.N. >personnel from Bosnian territory as a first step toward lifting the >international arms embargo against the former Yugoslav republic. > The Bosnian government, saying the presence of U.N. personnel had >become ``an impediment to critical decisions by the international >community,'' indicated the withdrawal of the peacekeepers and relief >workers would persuade Western governments to lift the arms embargo so >Muslims could defend themselves against Bosnian Serbs. > The Security Council imposed the arms embargo on the whole of the >former Yugoslavia in 1991 when fighting erupted between Serb The imposed it knowing that Serbia has a stockpile of weapons, and that Bosnia will have next to nothing to defend itself. Many experts predicted a Massacre as early as March, 1992, but the Security Coucil knew what it was doing. ....... > France and Britain have opposed U.S. proposals for military air >strikes against Bosnian Serbs, saying such strong action would lead to >retaliation against their troops and personnel. .... > The Bosnian move Tuesday was in part a bid to undermine the British >and French opposition to military intervention based on fears for the >safety of European peacekeeping troops and humanitarian personnel. .... > Silajdzic's ambassador to the United Nations, Mohamed Sacirbey, who >conveyed the letter to the Security Council members, told reporters that >the peacekeepers' mandate should be modified or they should withdraw. ... > He said if the Security Council refuses to accede to the request, his >government will take ``another step.'' He did not elaborate on what >other steps the government might take. .. > In his letter to the council, Silajdzic said President Clinton >understood well the Muslims' ``commitment and desperate plight'' because >the United States has been seeking support for lifting of the arms >embargo. > Silajdzic said the international community has not realized that the >war in Bosnia-Herzegovina was a ``war of fascist aggression'' and the >maintenance of the arms embargo was an ``act of arrogant indifference to >the fate of hundreds of thousands of loyal Bosnian citizens, who plead >only for the right to defend themselves.'' > ``We beseech the Security Council to cease an arms embargo that has, >in practice, constituted an international intervention against our >legitimate rights as a member of the United Nations,'' Silajdzic said. Now read this, Tim Clock &co. > The request to the Security Council took some members by surprise, >even though the complaints have been aired by the Bosnian government for >some time. The only allies the Muslims could find in the council are ***************************************************** >non-aligned and Islamic countries, which have been calling for the ********************************** >Muslims' right to self-defense, a provision enshrined in the U.N. >Charter. ",17 "Re: Binyamin Netanyahu on CNN tonight. In article <2BCCA235.803@news.service.uci.edu> tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes: >Just because someone else loves sitting in shit and throws some at >you doesn't mean you have to get in a shit fight. [...] >Let this little cadre of >verbal bigots and mentally-challenged idiots talk to themselves. Hear, hear! If everyone followed this rule, tpm would consist entirely of Arab apologists howling at the moon all by themselves. -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "Re: Where's The Oil on my K75 Going? In article tim@intrepid.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tim Seiss) writes: > > After both oil changes, the oil level was at the top mark in the >window on the lower right side of the motor, but I've been noticing >that the oil level seen in the window gradually decreases over the >miles. I'm always checking the window with the bike on level ground >and after it has sat idle for awhile, so the oil has a chance to drain >back into the pan. The bike isn't leaking oil any place, and I don't >see any smoke coming out of the exhaust. > > My owner's manual says the amount of oil corresponding to the >high and low marks in the oil level window is approx. .5 quart. It >looks like my bike has been using about .25 quarts/1000 miles. The >owner's manual also gives a figure for max. oil consumption of about >.08oz/mile or .15L/100km. > > My question is whether the degree of ""oil consumption"" I'm seeing on >my bike is normal? Have any other K75 owners seen their oil level >gradually and consistently go down? Should I take the bike in for >work? I'm asking local guys also, to get as many data points as I >can. It's normal for the BMW K bikes to use a little oil in the first few thousand miles. I don't know why. I've had three new K bikes, and all three used a bit of oil when new - max maybe .4 quart in first 1000 miles; this soon quits and by the time I had 10,000 miles on them the oil consumption was about zero. I've been told that the harder you run the bike (within reason) the sooner it stops using any oil. Charlie Smith charlie@elektro.cmhnet.org KotdohL KotWitDoDL 1KSPI=22.85 DoD #0709 doh #0000000004 & AMA, MOA, RA, Buckey Beemers, BK Ohio V BMW K1100-LT, R80-GS/PD, R27, Triumph TR6 Columbus, Ohio USA ",8 "Re: ATARI 2600 Processors ifarqhar@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Ian Farquhar) writes: >In article <1993Apr21.081317.599@das.harvard.edu> squish@endor.uucp (Shishin Yamada) writes: >>The Atari 2600 used a 6502 CPU, just like their entire 8-bit line >>(400, 800,1200,1400, 1440, 130xe, 65xe computers, as well as the 5200 >>game machine). >Wrong, it has a 6507. For those who would like to know, the 6507 was a 6502 without IRQ or NMI, and with only 13 address lines (giving 8K memory space). >It had one custome chip (not an ASIC in the sense that word is now understood): >the TIA (sometimes known as the 6526, although most other manufacturers list >that as the CIA complex interface adapter.) TIA stands for Television >Interface Adapter, and it handles sound, paddles and the minimal video hardware >the 2600 possessed. Didn't know about it being called the 6526 - thats the CIA found in the Commodore 64 (I don't believe this chip existed when the 2600 was around). The TIA was mapped into the bottom 128 bytes of page 0, and shadowed in the bottom 128 bytes of page 1. To get an image on the screen, you had to wait until the raster line your picture started at, load bitmaps for this line into the 'sprite' registers, tell them what x positions to take, how many duplicates you wanted, etc, then do it all again for the next line. This took all of the processor's time during the visible portion of the display. >There was also a standard 6532 RAM, I/O, Timer (RIOT), plus a voltage >regulator and (if memory serves) a 555 timer. That's all. The RAM was mapped into the top 128 bytes of page 0, and shadowed in page 1. The 6502 has a zero-page addressing mode on most instructions that is both shorter and faster than the normal ones, so it is important on a machine like this to have the scratchpad RAM in page 0. Unfortunately, it also wants its stack to be in page 1 (the stack pointer is 8 bits, and the high byte of the address is hardwired to 1). The IOT section was mapped into page 2 somewhere. 2 8 bit I/O registers (can't remember if each bit could be independantly set to I or O like the 6522 and 6526), and 1(?) 8(?) bit timer with a programmable prescaler (I think this was some power of 2). There were no interrupts in the system, so many games would set up the timer at some known time, go away and do something else for a while, then sit and wait for the timer to run down. There was no logic in the box to do address decoding - the RIOT had at least 2 chip select pins (probably one active high, one active low), and I imagine the TIA was much the same. Various address lines were fed directly to chip selects. The 6507 likes to have ROM right at the top of memory, so the 2600 had to use ROMs with active high chip selects - not exactly normal, so some cartriges had a 7404 in them to convert this to the more usual active low chip select. John West ",12 "Strange phenomens in NHL (was: Team leaders in +/-) In article <1993Apr5.195705.29227@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes: > In <1993Apr5.185633.17843@ists.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes: > >>Implicitly you are assuming that goals scored against Winnipeg with Selanne >>on the ice can be blamed on him...Roger, he is a FORWARD. Winnipeg has a >>lousy defensive record anyway. Let's put it another way. John Cullen's +/- >>is terrible. What's your excuse for him? That his powerplay points don't >>count? Neither do Selanne's... > > Are you comparing Cullen to Salami? I would say that that is valid. If > Winnipeg is such a lousy defensive team then why the hell does Salami > stand around the other team's blueline when the puck is in his own end? I thought that he was comparing Cullen to TEEMU SEL[NNE. I always thought that salami is some sort of sausage, BUT IF YOU, dear Roger, ARE ABLE TO SEE SALAMI ON THE ICE PLAYING HOCKEY... I don't know what to do, but you surely should do something and very quickly!!! Maybe you think that if you keep on talking some rubbish, after some time everybody will consider it to be really true... You should take care of your LEAFS, they surely need it more. > >>What he does best is score...so I refer you to my comment above. > > Some of our Finnish friends who have watched him play claim that he > can play a solid two-way game. I would have to say that this style > of contribution would be more conducive to winning. Or don't you > think so? At least we have seen him playing... > >>>As it is now, Selanne >>>is a grandstanding goal suck. Did you see the way he parades around >>>with his arms outstretched after scoring a goal? You would think the >>>Messiah had returned... During the latest Philly game the Leaf players didn't parade... Philly crunched them 4-0 !!! Maybe you need some more two way players who can score, too !!??? > > > cordially, as always, > > rm > > -- > Roger Maynard > maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca just cordially, Hannu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> GO JETS GO ! >>>>>>>> TEEMU ! >>>>>>> TEPPO ! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TAPPARA >>>>>> CANADIENS >>>>>>> BLACKHAWKS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ",10 "ATI Ultra Pro & Windows Ok, I just got a new 486/66 16 Mb, with a ATI Ultra pro and I can't get into windows. It says that I need more memory available, but I have 15mb ogf extended mem & 512k of conventionnal. I have disabled my memory aperture because it didn't find any ""FREE"" memory, but it still gave me a message that the memory aperture will conflict with system memory. I think that's why it want to get in Windows. Any help will greatly be appriciated. Please Reply by mail, because this site is a week late on News Thanks Gel ",2 "Re: another Taurus SHO question In article <1993Apr14.064702.26925@reed.edu> rseymour@reed.edu writes: >The Taurus SHO (for those who can get it straight, it is S-H-O as in Super >High Output, not SHO as in show) has a Yamaha 3.0L DOHC (24 valves) SHO V-6. Having spoken to technical staff from Ford many times, I can assure you that internally at Ford this car is always called the Taurus ""Show"" or just ""the Show"". As in long ""o"" sound. I still refer to it as the ""S-H-O"", however, because it sounds better to me. I assume many purist fans and owners prefer using the Ford lingo. Tim Gardner ",7 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qtsmc$39j@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) wrote: > > Well I can cut to the chase and admit that what I find least attractive > about realtivism is that it elevates the heinous to the level of the good, > by saying in effect ""to each his own"", or ""what's good for you, isn't good > for me"". Thus the terrorist is elevated to the same level as the man > of peace. So, then, I assume that you feel that there is an objective definition for ""terrorist""? -- Lefty (lefty@apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:. ",0 "Re: Open letter to NISSAN (Really Station Wagon) this week's autoweek talks about how wagons are getting back in vogue. i wouldn't mind an audi s4 wagon (great stealth value) but you'll never catch me dead in a minivan! eliot ",7 "Gateway 4DX2-66V update I just ordered my 4DX2-66V system from Gateway. Thanks for all the net discussions which helped me decide among all the vendors and options. Right now, the 4DX2-66V system includes 16MB of RAM. The 8MB upgrade used to cost an additional $340. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Yang Silicon Graphics, Inc. mikey@sgi.com 415/390-1786 ",3 "Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity In article whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu writes: >Any one who thinks that Homosexuality and Christianity are compatible should check >out: > Romans 1:27 > I Corinthians 6:9 > I Timothy 1:10 > Jude 1:7 > II Peter 2:6-9 > Gen. 19 > Lev 18:22 >(to name a few of the verses that pertain to homosexuality) > But wouldn't that go for any sin. My father told me when he was growing up Catholics were not allowed to associate with anyone who was divorced. There are a few verses prohibitting divorce. Somehow, divorce became acceptable (even in Catholicism anullments). Certainly it is no longer a sin to associate with a divorced person. The point is that each person has their own temptations to deal with. Paul repeatedly talks about the ""thorn"" in his side, some think it refers to lust, others pride, but who knows. Whatever the thorn was, apparently it was not ""compatible"" with Christianity, yet does that make his epistles any less? The Bible warns us against judging, greed, anxiety, impure thoughts, bearing grudges, etc., etc. I suppose we should seek out all the so-called Christians who have entertained impure thoughts and oust them. All those who have given in to greed, get 'em outta here. Jesus pointed out that he was the physician for the sinners. Any attempts to make homosexuals feel unwelcome because of our discomfort with homosexuality is incompatible with Christianity. Is our hatred so deep that rather than see someone try to become closer to Jesus, we need to keep them away. Does Jesus need us to screen out those guilty of a particular sin. Do we really mistrust Jesus when he says he can forgive any sin? Think about it. Among the people Jesus encountered were sinners and the Pharisees. The sinners he embraced and forgave. The Pharisees, hypocritcal, unmerciful, self-righteous, pointed out others sins and did not seek and thus did not gain forgiveness of their own sins. What I take from this and other verses is that if we do not admit our sins, those sins will not be forgiven. And since those guilty of even one sin are guilty of the whole law, those not repenting the judging of others are guilty, as guilty as if they committed the same sin they judged others of. The poor in spirit, meek, humble, merciful, pure of heart, peacemakers, those who thirst for justice, those who suffer for His sake are blessed. Joe Moore ",15 "Re: ""Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."" {Dan Johnson asked for evidence that the most effective abuse recovery programs involve meeting people's spiritual needs. I responded: In 12-step programs (like Alcoholics Anonymous), one of the steps involves acknowleding a ""higher power"". AA and other 12-step abuse- recovery programs are acknowledged as being among the most effective.} Dan Johnson clarified: >What I was asking is this: > >Please show me that the most effective substance-absure recovery >programs involve meetinsg peoples' spiritual needs, rather than >merely attempting to fill peoples' spiritual needs as percieved >by the people, A.A, S.R.C. regulars, or snoopy. You are asking me to provide objective proof for the existence of God. I never claimed to be able to do this; in fact I do not believe that it is possible to do so. I consider the existence of God to be a premise or assumption that underlies my philosophy of life. It comes down to a matter of faith. If I weren't a Christian, I would be an agnostic, but I have sufficient subjective evidence to justify and sustain my relationship with God. Again this is a matter of premises and assumptions. I assume that there is more to ""life, the universe and everything"" than materialism; ie that spirituality exists. This assumption answers the question about why I have apparent spiritual needs. I find this assumption consistent with my subsequent observat- ions. I then find that God fills these spiritual needs. But I cannot objectively prove the difference between apparent filling of imagined spiritual needs and real filling of real spiritual needs. Nor can I prove to another person that _they_ have spiritual needs. == Seanna Watson Bell-Northern Research, | Pray that at the end of living, (seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Of philosophies and creeds, | God will find his people busy Opinion, what opinions? Oh *these* opinions. | Planting trees and sowing seeds. No, they're not BNR's, they're mine. | I knew I'd left them somewhere. | --Fred Kaan ",15 "Re: Candida Albicans: what is it? In article <1993Apr19.084258.1040@ida.liu.se> davpa@ida.liu.se (David Partain) writes: >Someone I know has recently been diagnosed as having Candida Albicans, >a disease about which I can find no information. Apparently it has something >to do with the body's production of yeast while at the same time being highly >allergic to yeast. Can anyone out there tell me any more about it? Candida albicans can cause severe life-threatening infections, usually in people who are otherwise quite ill. This is not, however, the sort of illness that you are probably discussing. ""Systemic yeast syndrome"" where the body is allergic to yeast is considered a quack diagnosis by mainstream medicine. There is a book ""The Yeast Connection"" which talks about this ""illness"". There is no convincing evidence that such a disease exists. -- David Rind rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu ",13 "The Dayton Gun ""Buy Back"" (Re: Boston Gun Buy Back) According to WNCI 97.9 FM radio this morning, Dayton, Ohio is operating a gun ""buy back"". They are giving $50 for every functional gun turned in. They ran out of money in one day, and are now passing out $50 vouchers of some sort. They are looking for more funds to keep operating. Another media-event brought to you by HCI. Is there something similar pro-gun people can do ? For example, pay $100 to anyone who lawfully protects their life with a firearm ? Sounds a bit tacky, but hey, whatever works. -- Larry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com ",16 "new 1 gig SCSI-2 3.5"" 5400 rpm drives - Ratings? I've noticed a recent proliferation of 1 gig SCSI-2 3.5"" drives, in particular, the Fujitsu 2694 and the Micropolis 2112. There is also the Maxtor LXT1240s (6100 rpm, 1.2 gig) drive. They are all quite cheap, and have nice 3-5 year warranties. My questions are: Is there a catch? Which one is better? What type of SCSI-2 do these drives use? Is the service generally better for one of these manufacturers? Are prices likely to go down soon for any reason? thanks, Michael Taylor ",3 "1962 thunderbird I just bought a 1962 T-BIRD and would like any info on a club in and around the the B.C. coast. Eric Thomas ",7 "Re: Motif vs. [Athena, etc.] berry@durian.citr.uq.oz.au (Andrew Berry) writes: >My impression is that most people use Motif because their OS vendor >supplies it with X (SunOS users excluded), and because it is similar in >""look and feel"" to MS-Windows and OS/2 PM. Personally, I also prefer >the ""look and feel"" of Motif (no flames please -- just an opinion). Seeing as Motif has been adopted by Sun, IBM, HP +++ (can't remeber the other members in the recent announcement), I'm sure you'll see it on virtually every workstation (ie. Sun, IBM, HP and DEC must make up the **VAST** majority of all hardware). >I am also concerned by this prevalence of Motif, particularly from the >point of view of writing and obtaining free software. As the Linux and >386BSD communities grow, however, I think that Motif will lose some of >its grip, at least in the non-commercial marketplace. Ports of Motif to both 386BSD and Linux are available for a fee of about $100. This is cost recovery for the person who bought the rights to redistribute. The activity in both the BSD and Linux news groups pertaining to Motif has been high. >I just wonder if this will also cause a divergence between commercial >and non-commercial software (ie. you will only get free software using >Athena or OpenLook widget sets, and only get commercial software using >the Motif widget sets). I can't see why. If just about every workstation will come with Motif by default and you can buy it for under $100 for the ""free"" UNIX platforms, I can't see this causing major problems. Side Note : --------- All the X based code I am writing (and will distribute freely when completed) is based on Motif because from a programmatic and also ""look and feel"" point of view I like it the best (no flames on this one please). bambi ___ David J. Hughes bambi@bu.oz.au / \ / / / / __/ __ __ ____/ / / __ Senior Network Programmer / \ / \ / \ / / / / / \ / Comms Development & Operation \____/ \__// / \__/ \___/ / / / AUSTRALIA (+61 75 951450) ",5 "triple des I have seen various references to 'triple des' recently. Could anyone tell me what it is ? From context, I would guess that it means encrypting each block 3 times, with a different key each time, but I'd like to be sure. Replies by email preferred - our news is unreliable. Thanks, Richard -- -------------- PGP Public Key available on request -------------- -- -------------- PGP Public Key available on request -------------- - Disclaimer: Please note that the above is a personal view and should not be construed as an official comment from the JET project. ",11 "Re: Mouse on Com3OM3 or COM4 in Windows In article isbell@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Isbell) writes: >jpaparel@cs.ulowell.edu (Joseph Paparella) writes: > >>I am having a problem configuring the mouse in windows to use COM3 >>with IRQ5. > >>COM1 and COM2 are being used to support two 24 hour bbs lines, There you go. COM1 and COM3 use the same IRQ, therefore you can't use a mouse on COM3 and a modem on COM1, or vice versa. It's a limitation of DOS. And in fact Windows will not see a mouse on anything other than COM1 or COM2. Accept this fact, and either get a bus mouse, or get a new computer. >I would also like to know if it is possible to use the mouse on ports other >than COM1 or COM2. No. The advice above applies.... -- Greg Franklin franklig@gas.uug.arizona.edu ",2 "Re: Bikes And Contacts In article <1993Apr13.163450.1@skcla.monsanto.com> mpmena@skcla.monsanto.com writes: > Michael (Manning)...Must be that blockhead of yours....the gargoyles > are the ONLY thing that work for me! ;*} > > > Michael (Menard) > > P.S. When you showin' up at Highland House? We'll compare sunglasses... Let's see how the weather is Saturday or Sunday. It sucks today. What time is good? You're welcome to give any of the ones I have a try. As for the gargoyles, if you want mine you can have 'em. I think the bridge of my nose holds them too far from my face. Same deal for the two of my friends who tried them. For people who use them with a full face helmet, all bets are off. Sorry if they fit you well and took my complaint personally. Yes the Oakleys are much more desirable squid attire. Also the gargoyles aren't that ugly, even in my opinion, or I wouldn't have tried them. -- Michael Manning mmanning@icomsim.com (NeXTMail accepted.) `92 FLSTF FatBoy `92 Ducati 900SS ",8 "Re: Black Reflector Tape? I got a sample of black reflector material, maybe from ""Conspicuity""? It is black but reflects silver if the angle of incidence is shallow. Whoever it was I got it from sold/sells kits that fit BMW (and other brands?) of luggage and fenders. Don't know what I did with the sample; the kits seemed too expensive, as I recall. Henry Prange - biker/reflectionologist Physiology/IU Sch. Med., Blgtn., 47405 DoD #0821; BMWMOA #11522; GSI #215 ride = '92 R100GS; '91 RX-7 conv = cage/2; '91 Explorer = cage*2 We all lie, cheat and steal, mostly a little, sometimes a lot. Relax. ",8 "Re: Davidians and compassion In article arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >>So we have this highly Christian religious order that put fire >>on their house, killing most of the people inside. > >We have no way to know that the cultists burned the house; it could have been >the BATF and FBI. We only have the government's word for it, after all, and >people who started it by a no-knock search with concussion grenades are hardly >disinterested observers. >-- Nor, to point out the obvious, are the deluded, siege-mentality followers of a religious nut-case who thought he was Jesus Christ or possibly The Big Guy. Personally, much as I regard the BATF and FBI as ConDupes, I'll take their word over a bunch of silly pinks who were stoopid enough to lock themselves up with a goofball like ""David Koresh"" in a makeshift arsenal. ************************************************************ * The_Doge of South St. Louis * * Dobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm) * * ""One Step Beyond"" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm * * 88.1 FM St. Louis Community Radio * * ""You'll pay to know what you *really* think!"" * * -- J.R. ""Bob"" Dobbs"" * ************************************************************ ",19 "Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years..... kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) writes: > Let's say that we drop a marble into the black hole. It races, ever faster, >towards the even horizon. But, thanks to the curving of space caused by the >excessive gravity, as the object approaches the event horizon it has further to >travel. Integrating the curve gives a time to reach the event horizon of . . . >infinity. So the math says that nothing can enter a black hole. Don't think so. It would become a singularity in a few miliseconds. Jack ",19 "Lookin Form 3-D model of Loom Hi folks, I'm doing an animated film on new methodes in loom research (You know, the thing they make cloth with.) and need a model of a loom. The format should be in ascii faceted geometry and fairly straight forward to figure out. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated. -Thanks Rick Boykin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rick Boykin (rboykin@cscsparc.larc.nasa.gov) Computer Sciences Corporation, Hampton, VA. ""So maybe I could be a fly and feed arachnid as I die"" -Tom Marshall ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",1 "New Method For Diagnosing Alzheimer's Disease Discovered Here is a press release from Huntington Medical Research Institutes. New Method For Diagnosing Alzheimer's Disease Discovered at Huntington Medical Research Institutes: Results to Be Reported To: National Desk, Health Writer Contact: John Lockhart or Belinda Gerber, 310-444-7000, or 800-522-8877, for the Huntington Medical Research Institutes. LOS ANGELES, April 28 -- A new method for diagnosing and measuring chemical imbalances in the brain which lead to Alzheimer's disease and other dementias has been discovered by researchers at the Huntington Medical Research Institutes (HMRI) in Pasadena, Calif. Results of their research will be reported in the May issue of the scientific journal, Radiology. Using an advanced form of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) called magnetic resonance spectroscopy (MRS), a research team led by Brian D. Ross, M.D., D. Phil., conducted a study on 21 elderly patients who were believed to be suffering from some form of dementia. The exams used standard MRI equipment fitted with special software developed at HMRI called Clinical Proton MRS. Clinical Proton MRS is easily applied, giving doctors confirmatory diagnoses in less than 30 minutes. An automated version of Clinical Proton MRS called Proton Brain Examination (PROBE) reduces the examination time yet further, providing confirmatory diagnoses in less than 10 minutes. By comparison, the current ""standard of care"" in testing for Alzheimer's disease calls for lengthy memory function and neuropsychological tests, which can be very upsetting to the patient, are not definitive and can only be confirmed by autopsy. In addition to Alzheimer's disease, the new Clinical Proton MRS exam may have applications in diagnosing other dementias, including AIDS-related dementia, Parkinson's disease and Huntington's disease. ""We've developed a simple test which can be administered quickly and relatively inexpensively using existing MRI equipment fitted with either the MRS or PROBE software,"" said Dr. Ross, adding, ""this will help physicians to diagnose Alzheimer's earlier and intervene with therapeutics before the progression of the disease causes further damage to the delicate inner workings of the brain."" Dr. Ross and his HMRI team measured a family of chemicals in the brain known as inositols, and myo-inositol (MI) acted as a marker in the study. In comparison to healthy patients, those diagnosed with Alzheimer's showed a 22 percent increase in MI, while their level of another chemical called N-acetylaspartate (NAA) was significantly lower, indicating a loss of brain-stimulating neurons believed to be associated with the progression of the disease. Current drug therapy for Alzheimer's disease is widely considered to be inadequate. This is attributable, Dr. Ross believes, to the theory that Alzheimer's is caused by an interruption in the transmission of the chemical acetylcholine to the nerve cells. This belief has been adhered to over the last 15 years, and consequently, most drugs to treat Alzheimer's were based on the changing receptors for acetylcholine. ""Physicians have a real need for a test to differentiate Alzheimer's from other dementias, to provide the patient and his or her family with a firm diagnosis and to monitor future treatment protocols for the treatment of this disease. For this reason, we consider this test a major advancement in medicine,"" said Bruce Miller, M.D., a noted neurologist at Harbor-UCLA, MRS researcher and a co-author of the study. Other members of the HMRI research team included Rex A. Moats, Ph.D., Truda Shonk, B.S., Thomas Ernst, Ph.D., and Suzanne Woolley, R.N. The PROBE software can be fitted on the approximately 1,200 General Electric MRI units currently in use in the United States, and will be configured for other manufacturers' MRI units soon. For interviews with Dr. Ross, advance copies of the Radiology May issue, and other information, please contact John Lockhart or Belinda Gerber for HMRI at 310-444-7000 or 800-522-8877. Q & A on Alzheimer's Disease: What is Alzheimer's disease and how is it caused? Alzheimer's disease (AD) is an incurable degenerative disease of the brain first described in 1906 by the German neuropathologist Alois Alzheimer. As the disease progresses, it leads to loss of memory and mental functioning, followed by changes in personality, loss of control of bodily functions, and, eventually, death. How many people does it affect? Alzheimer's disease affects an estimated 4 million adults in the United States and is the fourth leading cause of death, taking approximately 100,000 lives each year. While Alzheimer's debilitates its victims, it is equally devastating, both emotionally and financially, for patients' families. AD is the most common cause of dementia in adults. Symptoms worsen every year, and death usually occurs within 10 years of initial onset. What are its signs and symptoms? Although the cause of AD is not known, two risk factors have been identified: advanced age and genetic predisposition. The risk of developing AD is less than one percent before the age of 50 yars old, but increases steeply in each successive decade of life to reach 30 percent by the age of 90. In patients with familial AD, immediate family relatives have a 50 percent chance of developing AD. One of its first symptoms is severe ""forgetfulness"" caused by short-term memory loss. Dr. Herman Weinreb of the School of Medicine at New York University says ""whether forgetfulness is a serious symptom or not is largely a matter of degree"" and suggests the following criteria: -- Forgetting the name of someone you see infrequently is normal. -- Forgetting the name of a loved one is serious. -- Forgetting where you left your keys is normal. -- Forgetting how to get home is serious. Doctors suggest that people with severe symptoms should be evaluated in order to rule out Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia. -30- -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario 416-629-7000/629-7044 ",13 "Re: SDIO kaput! Not to mention how those those liberal presidents, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush. did nothing to support true commercial space activities. pat ",14 "Re: DC-X: Vehicle Nears Flight Test In <1993Apr5.191011.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >Since the DC-X is to take off horizontal, why not land that way?? >Why do the Martian Landing thing.. Or am I missing something.. Don't know to >much about DC-X and such.. (overly obvious?). You missed something. I think it takes off vertically and is intended to land the same way. -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",14 "Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it? My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model. It was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the mountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I have read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. I'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said ""once it's broken in it will feel more powerful"". I had been used to driving a Jeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts) were 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my own personal opinion). They are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular. ( ___ )-----------------------------------------------------------( ___ ) | / | Tom Vervaeke Email: tvervaek@cs.itc.hp.com | \ | | / | Hewlett Packard Co. Phone: 719-590-2133 | \ | | / | | \ | |___| I love animals. They taste delicious. |___| (_____)-----------------------------------------------------------(_____) ",7 "VGA Feature Connector Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK Summary: Keywords: Subject: Video Feature Connector Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware, comp.sys.ibmpc.misc, sci.electronics Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK Summary: Keywords: X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Does anyone know how the VGA video feature connector operates? I would like to know which of the pins are inputs, which are outputs, and which are bidirectional (if any - and how the direction is selected). I have found a pinout for the connector: Video Feature Connector Pinouts. Pin Name Function 1 PD0 Dac Pixel data bit 0 2 PD1 bit 1 3 PD2 bit 2 4 PD3 3 5 PD4 4 6 PD5 5 7 PD6 6 8 PD7 7 9 - Dac Clock 10 - Dac Blanking 11 - Horizontal Sync 12 - Vertical Sync 13 - Ground 14 - Ground 15 - Ground 16 - Ground 17 - Select Internal Video 18 - Select Internal Sync 19 - Select Internal Dot Clock 20 - Not Used 21 - Ground 22 - Ground 23 - Ground 24 - Ground 25 - Not Used 26 - Not Used And I assume that pins 1 - 12 are outputs, and 17 - 19 are inputs. Is this correct? The reason is this - I have a Rombo Media Pro+ video digitising card. It chroma keys its output into the vga monitor signal. However, although it is supposed to work with an ET-4000 with Hi-colour RAMDAC, the colours on screen behave as if the top 2 bits of colour information are missing, and red, green, blue signals are swapped around. Rombo has suggested that this may be due to insufficient buffering on the feature connector outputs, and is happy to sell me a buffer device for 50 pounds. I would rather save about 45 pounds, and build my own. I assume it would require (for example) a 74F244 buffer IC (or two). Can anyone help? Any information on the feature connector would be highly appreciated! Please could you reply by email : ee90dhg@brunel.ac.uk because I am at home (easter holidays) and a 300 baud modem is slow for reading news! ",1 "Re: Stay Away from MAG Innovision!!! Kenneth Ng (ken@sugra.uucp) wrote: : In article <1993Apr12.114727.7059@walter.cray.com: huot@cray.com (Tom Huot) writes: : :Peter Clark (pclark@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu) wrote: : :: Interesting. You seem to be the only person I have ever heard of who : :: has had a problem with MAG like that. I have a MAG MX15F myself, no : :: problems. I liked it so much I showed it to a bunch of my friends: 6 of : :: them went out and bought them, no problems. All Gateway 2000 Crystal : :: Scan monitors are MAG Innovisions. I've not heard many Gateway people : :: griping about their monitors. Seems like you got the bad apple. I wrote: : :You haven't heard Gateway customers griping about their monitors? : :Where have you been? I have never seen as many complaints on the : :net about anything else above the famous GW CS monitor flamefest. : The bulk of the GW CS monitor complaints (to which I can add my complaint) : is for the older monitor that really comes from Tatung. After getting mine : repaired by Tatung a year ago, it is starting to flake out again. I'll be : looking into NEC3DS and MAG 15F for my next monitors. Does anyone know when they stopped using those Tatung monitors? I bought my system in Feb. '91 and it definitely had the Mag monitor. That one, and it's replacement failed within 16 months. I gave up and went to a CompuAdd store and bought a 15"" monitor there. I have no idea who makes those. No problems in about a year so far. (Knock of Wood!) So, does anyone know who makes the CompuAdd 15"" flat screen monitor? -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Tom Huot huot@cray.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",1 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >Why isn't this falsifiable? I.E. There is no God, the world has existed forever >and had no starting point. ? How does one falsify God's existance? This, again, is a belief, not a scien- tific premise. The original thread referred specifically to ""scientific creationism"". This means whatever theory or theories you propose must be able to be judged by the scientific method. This is in contrast to purely philosophical arguments. -- Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley ---------------------------------------- ""A system admin's life is a sorry one. The only advantage he has over Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare. On the other hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions of their own innards!"" -Michael O'Brien ",0 "Re: STRONG & weak Atheism acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery) writes: > Did that FAQ ever got modified to re-define strong atheists as not those who > assert the nonexistence of God, but as those who assert that they BELIEVE in > the nonexistence of God? In a word, yes. mathew ",0 "Celebrate Liberty! 1993 Announcing. . . Announcing. . . Announcing. . .Announcing. . . CELEBRATE LIBERTY! 1993 LIBERTARIAN PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION AND POLITICAL EXPO THE MARRIOTT HOTEL AND THE SALT PALACE SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH INCLUDES INFORMATION ON DELEGATE DEALS! (Back by Popular Demand!) The convention will be held at the Salt Palace Convention Center and the Marriott Hotel, Salt Lake City, Utah. The business sessions, Karl Hess Institute, and Political Expo are at the Salt Palace; breakfasts, parties, and banquet are at the Marriott Hotel. Marriott Hotel room rates are $79.00 night, plus 10.5% tax ($87.17 total). This rate is good for one to four persons room occupancy. Double is one or two beds; 3 or 4 people is 2 beds. You can make your reservations direct with the hotel (801-531-0800), or you can purchase your room through one of MGP's payment plans. MGP will provide assistance in matching roommates if requested. August 30, 31, Sept. 1: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Winning Elections, but Didn't Know Where to Ask! Three days of intensive campaign training conducted by Sal Guzzetta, a 25 year veteran of more than 200 campaigns. Students receive 990 pages of professional campaign manuals. Everything from strategy and targeting to opposition research, fundraising, and field operations. Price: $150 if purchased by May 1, 1993 $175 thereafter August 31 and Sept. 1: Platform, Bylaws, Credentials and National committee meetings. Shoot out in Salt Lake! PLEDGE versus Committee for a Libertarian Majority. Will the party's membership and platform definitions change? Is compromise possible? The Platform and Bylaws committees are responsible for making recommendations to the convention concerning changes in those documents. At this convention, the party will only consider deletions to the platform. The Convention Rules would have to be amended by a 2/3 vote to change this rule. The meetings are open to the public. There is no charge for attending. Sept. 2-5, 1993: Celebrate Liberty! Begins Political Expo Opens Sept. 2, 1993: 9 AM -- Credentials Committee report to the delegates. 10:30 -- Gala Opening Ceremony and Keynote Address by Russell Means. 1:00 -- After lunch break, convention business continues (see ""Standing Order of Business"" from the ""Convention Rules of the Libertarian Party"" at the end of this document. Karl Hess Institute of Libertarian Politics Begins, runs in tandem with the business sessions. Sept. 3, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Green Dragon Inn (morning and evening), with Karl Hess Institute and convention business in between. Sept. 4, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Freedom Rock '93, Karl Hess Institute, convention business. Sept. 5, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Convention Banquet, Karl Hess Institute, convention business, Joyful Noise. ACTIVITY DESCRIPTIONS: DAWNS EARLY LIGHT Three great convention breakfasts to start your days right, featuring science fiction author L. Neil Smith, psychiatrist and author Dr. Thomas Szasz, and South African Libertarian leader Frances Kendall. GREEN DRAGON INN ""Opening night"" party, named after the famous inn where Sam Adams and his crowd plotted trouble for the British over pints of ale and beer. Music, food, drink, and comedy. FREEDOM ROCK '93 Free downtown rock concert Friday night, with drum circle, comic Tim Slagle, Middle Eastern dancer, reggae, and local classic rock-n-roll bands. Will be widely publicized in the local area. Major outreach opportunity. BANQUET Vivaldi and Mozart, fine dining, in the elegant Marriott Grand Ballroom (black tie optional). Dancing follows. POLITICAL EXPO Exhibits and vendors. FREE admission. Event will be widely publicized in local area for maximum draw. Major Outreach opportunity. KARL HESS INSTITUTE OF LIBERTARIAN POLITICS Workshops, speakers, roundtable discussions in these areas: LIBERTY: NEXT GENERATION High school and college age Libertarians talk about what matters to them and the 20- something generation. AGENDA 2000 Considers key issues of the 1990s. Environment. Health Care. 21st Century Economics. Drug War. Second Amendment. Social Services. Foreign Policy. Crime & Violence. AIDS. THE GREAT DEBATE LP Strategy and tactics. Media. Ballot Access. Initiatives. Feminist Issues. Presidential Campaigns. LP Elected Officials. Grassroots. Early look at the 1996 presidential nomination. VALUES FOR THE 90s Community. Children. Abundance. Home Schooling. Religion and Liberty. Race. CAMPUS FOCUS Organizing. Academia. Blue Collar Youth. CONVENTION PACKAGE DESCRIPTIONS AND PRICES TOTAL EVENT: All activities, Aug. 30-Sept. 5, $400, including 3 day candidate training Full Celebration: All convention activities, Sept. 2-5, $300 Late Riser No breakfasts, everything else Sept. 2-5, $250 Thrift No breakfasts or banquet, $150 Issues Focus Karl Hess Institute, $125 Basic Convention packet, souvenirs, two Karl Hess Institute speakers Free Political Expo, Access to convention hall, Keynote Address, Joyful Noise, Freedom Rock '93, three free outreach speakers. PLEASE NOTE: -- PRICES INCREASE MAY 1, 1993 -- Special student prices are available to anyone under 25 years of age or who is enrolled in a college or university. -- Six and seven month payment plans are available which can include housing (if requested). -- To add the three day candidate training to any package below (except ""Total Event""), add $150 to the price. -- All prices are in U.S. dollars. -- Advertising is available in the convention program; exhibits and sponsorships are available for the Political Expo. Free Political Expo admission and MGP promotions will draw visitors from the surrounding community (one million people live within a 30 minute drive of the Expo). -- If your special interest group, organization, committee, or cause would like to schedule space for a presentation, contact us. -- MGP conducts a drawing each month and gives away FREE hotel nights. The sooner you register, the more chances you have to win. -- Roommate match service available upon request. OTHER EVENTS: ""Anti-Federalist Two"" MGP sponsored writing contest. June submission deadline. Contact MGP for prospectus. ""The Libertarian Games"" Friendly competition -- marksmanship, computer programming, chess, maybe more. Libertarians for Gay & Lesbian Concerns Business meeting, social night, sponsored by LGLC. ??? YOUR EVENT CAN BE LISTED HERE. Contact MGP for details. ATTENTION COLLEGE STUDENTS! Special discounts are available for college and high school students. We will work on casual housing opportunities for the ""Poverty Caucus"". College Libertarians will meet at Celebrate Liberty! and discuss the future of their movement on campuses. Contact MGP for more details. LIST OF SPEAKERS (as of March 14, 1993): Dean Ahmad Jim Hudler Sheldon Richman Karen Allard Jeff Hummel Kathleen Richman Rick Arnold Alexander Joseph Dan Rosenthal Dr. George Ayittey Frances Kendall Dr. Mary Ruwart Alan Boch Martin Luther King Dagny Sharon Richard Boddie Me-Me King Jane Shaw Gus Dizerega Henry Lamb Sandy Shaw Larry Dodge Amy Lassen L. Neil Smith Dr. Richard Ebeling Scott Lieberman Eric Sterling Don Ernsberger Dr. Nancy Lord Dr. Richard Stroup Bill Evers Russell Means Dr. Thomas Szasz Bonnie Flickenger Vince Miller Michael Tanner John Fund Maury Modine Sojourner Truth Doris Gordon David Nolan Yuri Tuvim Leon Hadar Randall O'Toole Bob Waldrop Patrick Henry James Ostrowski Terree Wasley Karl Hess Dirk Pearson Perry Willis Dr. Karl Hess Jr. Bob Poole Richard Winger Jacob Honrberger Carole Ann Rand Jarret Wollstein Brigham Young UPCOMING CONVENTION DEVELOPMENTS! On May 1st, prices increase for convention packages, candidate training, and exhibits/advertising: New prices for convention packages will be: Total Event: $450 Full Celebration: $350 Late Riser: $275 Thrift: $175 Issues Focus: $150 Basic: $30 Free: $0 These prices good through July 2, 1993. BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND! ANNOUNCING THE DELEGATE DEALS! Available May 1, 1993 I: Business Focus: All convention activities except Karl Hess Institute -- $275 II: Delegate Celebration, includes a complete set of Karl Hess Institute audio tapes instead of institute tickets -- $350 STANDING ORDER OF BUSINESS FOR A LIBERTARIAN PARTY CONVENTION 1. Call to order 2. Credentials Committee report 3. Adoption of agenda 4. Treasurer's report 5. Bylaws and Rules Committee report (Non-nominating conventions only) 6. Platform Committee report (At non-Presidential nominating conventions only deletions may be considered.) 7. Nomination of Party candidates for President and Vice-President (in appropriate years) 8. Election of Party Officers and at-large members of the National Committee 9. Election of Judicial Committee 10. Resolutions 11. Other business FOR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, GRUMBLES OR GRINS, SUGGESTIONS OR CRITICISM, AND TO REGISTER, CONTACT: MORNING GLORY PRODUCTIONS, INC. P.O. Box 526175 Salt Lake City, UT 84152 801.582.3318 E-mail: Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org Make Checks Payable to Morning Glory Productions, Inc. -- Don't blame me; I voted Libertarian. Disclaimer: I speak for myself, except as noted; Copyright 1993 Rich Thomson UUCP: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!rthomson Rich Thomson Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com IRC: _Rich_ PEXt Programmer ",16 "Heil Hernlem In article <1993Apr14.125813.21737@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.edu (Brad Hernlem) writes: Lebanese resistance forces detonated a bomb under an Israeli occupation patrol in Lebanese territory two days ago. Three soldiers were killed and two wounded. In ""retaliation"", Israeli and Israeli-backed forces wounded 8 civilians by bombarding several Lebanese villages. Ironically, the Israeli government justifies its occupation in Lebanon by claiming that it is necessary to prevent such bombardments of Israeli villages!! Congratulations to the brave men of the Lebanese resistance! With every Israeli son that you place in the grave you are underlining the moral bankruptcy of Israel's occupation and drawing attention to the Israeli government's policy of reckless disregard for civilian life. Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU) Very nice. Three people are murdered, and Bradly is overjoyed. When I hear about deaths in the middle east, be it Jewish or Arab deaths, I feel sadness, and only hope that soon this all stops. Apparently, my view point is not acceptable to people like you Bradly. Hernlem, you disgust me. Harry. ",17 "'87 Grand National Does anyone have one of these that would care to share some information on? I concerned about the turbo. How reliable is it? How's the gas milage. Please responde to me, not here. Thank you. Roger ",7 "RACK MOUNT 2CI, 650 Prices. Here's a good one: Does anyone know of a product that allows me to RACK MOUNT my 2CI (or maybe 650 if I blow some more money...) ??? My application is music, and would like to be able to haul it around (would probably plan to get an MO drive or something so I don't have to depend on an internal fixed hard drive - i.e., may be pretty rough on an internal HD...) I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, if that matters. Also, anyone have any info on 650's and Midi? And, would anyone care to email me with the price they paid for their 650? Or if there's a price list FAQ, never mind... Just curious about the difference between the best retailers and the local university pricing... Thanks, Jeff Adams adams@upse01.mtv.gtegsc.com ",4 "Re: TV Schedule for Next Week jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio) writes: >mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger) writes: > >|> United States TV Schedule: >|> April 18 Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh 1 EST ABC >|> April 18 St. Louis at Chicago 12 CDT ABC >|> April 18 Los Angeles at Calgary 12 PDT ABC Okay, here's the down side of the ESPN deal: no additional coverage. With a split contract, SCA could have at least gotten at leftovers like Canucks-Jets, Caps-whoever and Red Wings-Leafs (or whoever else is playing). >|> April 20 Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh 7:30 ESPN >|> April 22 TBA 7:30 ESPN >|> April 24 TBA 7:30 ESPN > >Does anyone know if there will be alternate games in cities where >local broadcast rights are being protected? For our area (Islanders-Devils), it's likely to be the Bruins, since the other Adams series is Montreal-Quebec. I'd prefer the latter myself ... I'm under the impression that the ABC deal overrides the local deals, but if St. Louis at Chicago pops up we'll know ... gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",10 "Seeking info on wear on monitors We are Dartmouth engineering students.We are looking for documented data regarding the wear associated with turning on an off a monitor and how it relates to power consumption. Interested in a comparison between the wear on a monitor which is left on continuously and one which is turned off when not in use. Please personalize E-mail to: ds@Dartmouth.edu Thank you, Dan Stern Oliver Weir ",12 "Re: thermogenics First off, if I'm not mistaken, only hibernating animals have brown fat, not humans. Secondly, your description sounds just like 2,4-dinitrophenol. This is an uncoupler of respiratory chain oxidative phosphorylation. Put in layman's terms, it short-circuits the mitochondria, causing food energy to be turned into heat. 2,4-DNP was popular in the 1930's for weight reduction. In controlled amounts, it raises body temperature as the body compensates for the reduced amount of useful energy available. It is very dangerous. It would be wiser to adjust to your present body form, rather than play around with 2,4-DNP. But if you insist, I suggest you look up the literature in your own university library. You can obtain 2,4-DNP by taking a first year organic chemistry lab course and swiping it from the supplies (it's a commonly-used reagent). ",13 "Ford Probe, Import Car of the Year Okay, okay, I know the Ford Probe is made in the US, in fact it's made in Michigan, at a Mazda plant. My question: are most of the parts from American or Japanese sources? I have been told that most of the US assembly plants for Japanese automakers import almost all of the parts used in the vehicles. Any information anyone has on this will be appreciated! Tim Newman newman@cps.msu.edu ",7 "Re: The earth also pollutes...... People *die* of natural causes, too. We hear all this bellyaching over things like murder and war while Mother Nature is killing people all of the time. In fact, more people die of natural causes than due to the conscious actions of other people. So, what's a few murders here and there? -- John Berryhill ",18 "Re: quality of Catholic liturgy In article creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps) writes: >In article jemurray@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John E Murray) writes: > > On Palm Sunday at our parish, we were ""invited"" to take the role of >Jesus in the Passion. I declined to participate. Last year at the >liturgy meeting I pointed out how we crucify Christ by our sins, so >therefore it is appropriate that we retain the role of the crowd, but >to no avail. > >>musicians, readers, and so on. New things are introduced in the course of the >>liturgy and since no one knows what's happening, the new things have to be >>explained, and pretty soon instead of _doing_ a lot of the Mass we're just >>sitting there listening (or spacing out, in my case) to how the Mass is about >>to be done. In my mind, I lay the blame on liturgy committees made up of lay >>people to be aware of the Lord's presence. As a former Catholic and now as a very active Lutheran - it is some of the ""innovations"" of the Mass which made me leave the Catholic Church and return to the more traditional Catholic Chuch - the Lutherans. I spent many years as a Lector reading the Passion parts as appropriate in the Catholic Church and I found it very meaningful. Our Lutheran parish just instituted the ""Tenebrae"" service for Good Friday and I was the lector for a paraphrased Passion which was exceptional. I heard and learned things that I have previously overlooked in the Gospels - yet those ""facts"" were always there. As a matter of interest, the pastor and I were talking about the differences between the RC and Lutheran Church during Holy Week over breakfast Easter Sunday. > > As a member of a liturgy committee, I can tell you that the problem >is certain people dominating, who want to try out all kinds of >innovations. The priests don't seem even to _want_ to make any >decisions of their own in many cases. I guess it's easier to ""try >something new"" than it is to refuse to allow it. My wife is the member of the liturgy committee in the family (called music and worship at our church). Our pastor does have control of this committee but listens very carefully to the committee's suggestions. It needs a strong hand to lead and guide, to keep the intent and the message clear and strong as it should be through Lent and the rest of the liturgical year. Additional reason for my leaving the Catholic faith - lack of any selfless spiritual guidance by priests in my parishes. AKA ""wishy-washy"". As you may gather from my comments, I feel that it is very important, ir- regardless of denominational guidelines, to have a service/Mass which promotes the true reason that we are gathered there. I am quite comfortable in a traditional Mass, with receiving Holy Communion on the tongue, the Sacrament of PENANCE (not Reconciliation), Stations of the Cross, so on and so forth. The reason other types of Masses and parishes exist is because these feelings are not shared by everyone. I want more people to attend church and to find the Lord, but I don't want them attending a show. It's not. My church works hard to have a meaningful service during Lent on Wednesdays, but follow traditional Lutheran Book of Worship guidelines. Where things are changed or omitted during Lent (such as the Hymn of Praise) it is noted so that we are aware of the reasons that it is Not there. Quite frankly, it is very hard for a non-Catholic to go to a Mass and ""fit in"". My dear wife never could (former Methodist). And Holy Week Masses and Vigils would intimidate the daylights out of a non-Catholic. Those Catholics who have beared with me this far understand what I mean. Please keep in mind why we are there - to gather together in worship. Not to worry about how something is done or not done. If there is something wrong that you feel needs addressing, by all means talk to your priest or pastor. I have only ever met one who wouldn't listen. They are there to provide spiritual guidance and to help. Use them. My differences with the Catholic Church are much more fundamental - but my decision to change faiths was done with prayer, intervention, and sessions with priests and ministers. In Christ, Kershner -- Kershner Wyatt kwyatt@ccscola.ColumbiaSC.ncr.com My opinions are my own and aren't necessarily my employer's. ",15 "Re: islamic authority over women In article <1993Apr5.023044.19580@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes: > One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that say ""Mom"", > because of the love of their mom. It makes for more virile men. > Compare that with how homos are raised. Do a study and you will get my > point. Oh, Bobby. You're priceless. Did I ever tell you that? My policy with Bobby's posts, should anyone give a damn, is to flick through the thread at high speed, searching for posts of Bobby's which have generated a whole pile of followups, then go in and extract the hilarious quote inevitably present for .sig purposes. Works for me. For the guy who said he's just arrived, and asked whether Bobby's for real, you betcha. Welcome to alt.atheism, and rest assured that it gets worse. I have a few pearls of wisdom from Bobby which I reproduce below. Is anyone (Keith?) keeping a big file of such stuff? ""In Allah's infinite wisdom, the universe was created from nothing, just by saying ""Be"", and it became. Therefore Allah exists."" --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #1 ""Wait. You just said that humans are rarely reasonable. Doesn't that contradict atheism, where everything is explained through logic and reason? This is THE contradiction in atheism that proves it false."" --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #2 ""Plus, to the believer, it would be contradictory to the Quran for Allah not to exist."" --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #3 and now ""One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that say ""Mom"", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more virile men. Compare that with how homos are raised. Do a study and you will get my point."" -- Bobby Mozumder being Islamically Rigorous on alt.atheism Mmmmm. Quality *and* quantity from the New Voice of Islam (pbuh). Cheers Simon -- Simon Clippingdale simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk Department of Computer Science Tel (+44) 203 523296 University of Warwick FAX (+44) 203 525714 Coventry CV4 7AL, U.K. ",0 "Re: XV for MS-DOS !!! NOE-MAILADDRESS@eicn.etna.ch wrote: > I'm sorry for... > 1) The late of the answer but I couldn't find xv221 for msdos 'cause > I forgot the address...but I've retrieve it.. > 2) Posting this answer here in comp.graphics 'cause I can't use e-mail, > ^^^ not yet.... > 2) My bad english 'cause I'm a Swiss and my language is french.... ^^^ If french is your language, try counting in french in stead, maybe it will work better.... :-) _______________________________ / _ L* / _ / . / _ /_ ""One thing is for sure: The sheep / _) /()(/(/)//)) /_ ()(/_) / / Is NOT a creature of the earth."" / \_)~ (/ Joachim@kih.no / / /_______________________________/ / -The back-masking on 'Haaden II' /_______________________________/ from 'Exposure' by Robert Fripp. ",1 "Re: japanese moon landing? In article dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein) writes: >A short story in the newspaper a few days ago made some sort of mention >about how the Japanese, using what sounded like a gravity assist, had just >managed to crash (or crash-land) a package on the moon. The Japanese spacecraft, Hiten, crashed on the Moon last weekend. For the past three years it has made several lunar flybys and even did some aerobraking experiments with Earth's atmosphere. It was placed in lunar orbit in February 1992, and I guess it finally ran out of fuel and was unable to maintain its orbit around the Moon. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | The aweto from New Zealand /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | is part caterpillar and |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | part vegetable. ",14 "Re: Burden of Proof Mark McCullough (mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu) wrote: : >But if entertainment (company) sell computer programs saying they are virus : >safe. Doesn`t they have burden of proof that viruses don`t exist in their : >floppies ? : I don't think so. The assumption is there. If it turns out that : their software has a virus, then it is up to you to prove that fact : to a court to get any damages. You are theoretically suppossed to : be able to get damages for that, but you have to give some evidence : that the virus came from that software. But since the computer : company is the defendent, they are uninvolved until proven guilty. All right. I'm not and won't be lawyer. What about doctors? I going to fly aeroplane (or drive car). Doctors have to look for different kind of illnesses in me before I get permission to fly an aeroplane. They have burden of proof that ""harmful illnesses don't exist in me"", do they ? (I'm just questioning my belief that believers have the burden of proof.) : Please, not Pascal! NOOOOO!! ;) Oh! Are you those bug-generator C-programmers ? :-) Turbo Pascal is the BEST and FASTEST for edit-run-edit-run cycles ! ----------------------- ktikkane@phoenix.oulu.fi ------------------- Kari Tikkanen ! . . -#- ! b ! begin -------------------------------------------------------------------- ",19 "Re: Non-lethal alternatives to handguns? / iftccu:talk.politics.guns / steiner@jupiter.ca.boeing.com / 12:07 am Apr 15, 1993 / >douglas craig holland (holland@CS.ColoState.EDU) writes: >[...lostsa' crap deleted. trim your articles!...] > >> What about guns with non-lethal bullets, like rubber or plastic >> bullets. Would those work very well in stopping an attack? > >last i heard, ""non-lethal"" was a bit of a misnomer for these things. Also, you need to consider our legal system. Since any of these things CAN be lethal, you are going to have a hard time explaining why you applied lethal force when you DIDN'T think it was necessary. (If you thought lethal force was necessary, you wouldn't be using rubber bullets, would you?) Ouch. If you are justified in shooting them at all, you are justified in using the best self defense ammunition you can get your hands on. It might actually IMPROVE the legal outcome. This is why hollow points hold up in court. They are safer for you, safer for innocent by standers, (don't as a rule go through the perp) and actually safer for the perp. If you are using military hard ball, you may have to shoot him 'MANY' times, where one or two hollow points might stop him and do the job. As a rule, the fewer wound channels, the better the chance for his surviving the incident. Rick ",16 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes ... >One pays insurance to pay for coverage one expects/fears one might need. >If one is opposed to abortion, one should not be required to pay for >""coverage"" of it because one will NEVER want to use that ""service"" and >neither should that person be COMPELLED to pay for other people's >abortions PARTICULARLY if one sincerely believes that abortion is >murder. Overriding any concern about morality is the fact that men (Dennis is a man's name?) don't get abortions. Thus it is unreasonable to suppose that YOUR insurance premiums are being used for the possibility that you will be getting an abortion. It looks like what you're really objecting to is other people paying money for the possibility that THEY might need to get an abortion. -- Ray Fischer ""Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth ray@netcom.com than lies."" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ",19 "Re: No. Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. In article <1t4pkc$ovf@almaak.usc.edu> ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes: >If this idea goes through, it's the thin end of the wedge. Soon >companies will be doing larger, and more permanant, billboards in the >sky. I wouldn't want a world a few decades from now when the sky >looks like Las Vegas. That would _really_ make me sad. Think for a moment about the technology required to do that. By the time they could make the Earth's sky look like Las Vegas, the people could afford to go backpacking on the Moon. Round trip costs for 500 kg to the Moon would be about the same as 5000 kg in a Low Earth ""advertising"" orbit: Very roughly the same cost as a smallish billboard, therefore. If such ads were to become common place, that would have to be a very low price... The night sky on a Lunar backpacking trip would still be very pristine... There's always been a problem of having to get away from civilization before you can really find ""natural"" scenery. 100 years ago, this usually didn't take a trip of over 5 miles. Today, most people would have to go 100 miles or more. If we ever get to the point where we have billboards on orbit, that essentially means that no place on Earth is still ""wild."" While that may or may not be a good thing, the orbital billboards aren't the problem: They are just a symptom of growing, densely-populated civilization. Banning such ads will not save your view of the night sky, because by the time such ads could become widespread you will probably have trouble finding a place without street lights, where you can _see_ the stars... >Coca Cola company will want to paint the moon red and white. (Well, >if not this moon, then a moon of Jupiter)... An ad on a moon of Jupiter would be rather pointless, since you need a telescope to see them. However, I'd love to see them get all the publicity they could from underwritting the ""Coca Cola Io Orbital Mapping Probe."" >...Microscum will want to >name a galaxy `Microscum Galaxy'. They already can, to some extent: The IAU allows names derived from sponsors or patrons of scientific research. If Microscum donates money to a university astronomy program, one of the galactic astronomers could easily get a newly discovered galaxy named after them. Frank Crary CU Boulder ",14 "AHL News DALLAS HELPS HAWKS STAY IN MONCTON After announcing that they would pull their affiliation out of Moncton, the Winnipeg Jets changed their mind. The Jets announced the move when they said that they would be slashing their minor league roster from 20-something to around a dozen; and they wanted to share with an existing AHL or IHL franchise. Enter the Dallas Lone Stars. Dallas agreed to supply the remaining 6 or 8 players to the Moncton franchise. Thus keeping the Hawks in the New Brunswick city. The deal is for one year and will be extended to three years if the season ticket base increases to over 3000. The Hawks only sold 1400 for this year. SAINT JOHN FLAMES OFFICIAL The Calgary Flames have officially signed a deal with the city of Saint John, NB. The Saint John Blue Flames will play in the 6200 Exhibition Center. The Flames still have to apply for an expansion frnachise from the AHL but are expected to have no trouble. CAPS FOLLOW JACKS TO MAINE Despite rumors to the contrary, the Capitals will follow the Baltimore Skipjacks to Maine. The Caps' current farm team, the Baltimore Skipjacks, announced that they would move to Maine and become the Portland Pirates. There was much doubt as to if the Caps would follow but they announced a limited deal with Portland. They would supply a dozen or so players including 2 goalies. They become the third team to announce a limited farm team along with Moncton and the Capital District Islanders. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Bri Farenell farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu + + AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey Go USA Hockey! + + Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81 '86 '89 '92 + + Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66 '91 '93 + + Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90 '91 + + AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu + + CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS + + PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ",10 "PROBLEM: Running AIX info from a Sun rlogin shell. When I run our RS6000's ""info"" utility through a remote login shell (rlogin) from my Sun Sparc 1+, I can no longer type lower case in any of info's window prompt's. I thought the prob. may have been due to my Sun window mgr. (Openlook) being incompatible with the AIX Motif application but I tried it under TVTWM also. Same result. So this is presumably an X11 key definition problem between workstations - but my system admins. feign ignorance. What do I need to do the be able to type lower case into this remote AIX motif app. from within my local Openlook window manager? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wayne Long - OE215 Internet: wcl@risc.sps.mot.com 6501 William Cannon Drive West UUCP: cs.texas.edu!oakhill!risc!wcl Austin, Texas 78735-8598 Phone (512) 891-4649 FAX: 891-3818 ",5 "Re: Deir Yassin hm@cs.brown.edu writes: > In article aurag@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Aurag Hassan) writes: > > Are you trying to say that there were no massacres in Deir Yassin > or in Sabra and Shatila? If so then let me tell you some good jokes: > > There is not and was not any such thing like jewish killing in WWII > > Palestinians just did what Davidians did for fourty years and more. > > In fact no one was killed in any war at any time or any place. > > People die that is all. No one gets killed. > > Maybe also vietamiese didn't die in Vietnam war killed by american > napalm they were just pyromaniacs and that's all. > > Maybe jews just liked gas chambers and no one forced them to get in there.they > may be thought it was like snifing cocaine. No? > > What do you think of this ? Isn't it stupid to say so? > Well it is as stupid as what you said .Next time you want to lie do it > intelligently. > > Sincerely yours. > > Hassan > > Arab civilians did die at Dir yassin. But there was no massacre. First > of all, the village housed many *armed* troops. Secondly, the Irgun > and Stern fighters had absolutely no intentions of killing civilians. > The village was attacked only for its military significance. In fact, > a warning was given to the occupants of the village to leave before > the attack was to begin. > > By all rational standards, Dir Yassin was not a massacre. The killing > was unintentional. The village housed Arab snipers and Arab troops. > Thus it was attacked for its military significance. It was not > attacked with intentions of killing any civilians. > > To even compare Dir Yassin, in which some 120 or so Arabs died, to the > Holocaust is absurd. The Irgun did not want to kill any civilians. The > village had almost 1000 inhabitants, most of whom survived. > > Harry. This is such Bullshit. Deir Yassin was an unprovoked attack on the part of the Jews, and a massacre defines it best in my opinion. The village of Deir Yassin had had a pact with the Jews, a peace pact, but the Irgun purposely broke this agreement in order to scare off the Palestinians. I might grant that this village housed armed Arabs [I doubt it] but nothing in the archives and available literature indicates that this was a motivating force amongst the Irgun. The Deir Yassin MASSACRE was part of an over all strategy to intimidate the Palestinians to flee the Jewish Homeland.,...and contrary to your belief, many civilians were killed. Deir Yassin was later advertized by the very Jews who perpetrated it because it was useful in getting many Palestinians to leave. The Palestinians were rightfully scared off, because they did not want another Deir Yassin. I'm not necessarily condemning the Israelites here; atrocities were aslo committed on the part of the Arabs. Israelophiles should just be careful in thinking that they are and were the good guys in the middle east. Both Arab and Jew suck equally. ",17 "Re: HELP for Kidney Stones .............. Michael Covington (mcovingt@aisun4.ai.uga.edu) wrote: : In article jeffs@sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva) writes: : >pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu wrote: : : >move a little, the pain will be excrutiating. I was told by my doctor : >at that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes, : >by a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd : >really like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who : >have had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. : : One more reason for men to learn the Lamaze breathing techniques, in order : to be able to get some pain reduction instantly, wherever you are. : -- : :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** : :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* : :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * : :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< It would have been pretty difficult to practice my hee hee's while I was keeled over pukeing my guts out though. -- Jeff Silva jeffs@sr.hp.com ",13 "Re: Krillean Photography todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes: >I think that's the correct spelling.. > I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow >do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking >that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for >sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly >appreciated. Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps. Bill from oz ",13 "Re: And you think ESPN shafted you? In article <16BB7BF12.RRHAMMER@vm.cmp.ilstu.edu> RRHAMMER@vm.cmp.ilstu.edu writes: >Like many others I too was watching the Caps/Isles game when the went >to the baseball game. I too was pissed. How could they interupt such >an important game. I understand about contracts, but you would think they >would have a clause in the contract concerning important games! >Anyway, us BLUES (and Hawks) fans got shafted worse! While everyone >in the U.S. and watched the game on ABC. However those of us who live in >the central Illinois area were subjected to watching the Arthritus(?) >Telethon. The area that was most affected by the telecast did not get >to see the game except through HAWK VISION. This game, had it been >televised, would have been the first home Hawks game shown in the area >since 1980. This television BULL*&%$ has got to stop. We are not only >being deprived of seeing games, due to skyrocketing ticket prices, but >we are also being deprived of watching them on TV. > PEACE, > HAMMER > I'm familiar with the telethon situation (an individual on CompuServe was also victimized and was equally pissed). That was a local television station contract which could not be broken. For that item, I strongly suggest you call that affiliate and vent your anger on them. (Supposedly one station had told my friend that they have received hundreds of angry calls which will translate into far less incentive to pre-empt hockey telecasts in future. The contract was written when the pathetic WLAF was in that time slot.) -Tom Galvin galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil ",10 "COMICS: Jeff's Strange Comics -- Dozens of new titles! Tuesday April 27, 1993 UPDATE This is my latest updated list of strange/bizzare/odd/independent comics that I have for sale. As always, most are cover price, but some I will actually look up in the guide to see ""how much it is worth."" This week's special: Youngspud (spoof comics) Oldblood/Bragade (spoof comics) Spoofs of your favorite Image comics. Both of these comics for $5.00 which includes shipping. A1 6 (featuring Tank-Girl) 10 Adventurers (Aricel and Adventure series) The Adventures of Luther Arkwright 2, 7 After Apocalypse 1 Alias Blastpoint Alien Nation 2 Angryman 2 Animal Man 35-38, 41-48, Trade Paperback (issues 1-9) Anything but Monday 1 Apache Dick 1-3 Ape Nation 1 Arion The Immortal 1 Atlantis Chronicles 1 Avengers 263, 272, 300, 306, 324, 329, Annual 15, 18, 19 Avengers West Coast 67 Back to the Future (cartoon adaption) Badaxe 1 Bade Biker Orson 4 Batman: Shadow of the Bat (in polybag) Batman vs Predator 1 Batman: Year One Bats, Cats & Cadillacs 1 Beer Nutz 2 Bizarre 3-D Zone 1 Blackhawk Book 1-3 Black Scorpion 1 Blackthorne Publishing Flip-Book 1 Blood Sword Dynasty 28 Bob's Favorite Comics 1 Boof (caliber) 1 Boris the Bear 1 Boris the Bear 1 (Slaughters the Teenage Radioactive Black Belt...) Big Numbers 1 Blackhawk 1, 2, 3 Breathtaker 1 Butt Biscuit 1 Cadillacs & Dinosaurs 1 Cage 1 Cap'n Quick & a Foozle 1 Cosmic Odyssey Crossroads 1,5 Cyberpunk 1 Dark Horse Presents 1, 5, 25, 37, 40, 43 Desert Storm: Send Hussein to Hell! 1 Dragon Chiang Dungeoneers 3 Elflord Vol 2 No 4 Elftrek 1 Enchanter (eclipse) 3 Eye of Mogambo Felix The Cat 1 Fire Team 3 Fish Police 3-8, 22 Flash Gordon 1-4 Fly 1 French Ice 10, 13 Full Throttle 1 Gajit Gang 1 Gambit 1 Gatekeeper 1 Get Lost 1 Ghost Rider & Captain America: Fear Give me Liberty 4 Godzilla 2 The Greatest Flash Stories Ever Told Green Arrow 1-9, 12, 47-51, Ann 1, 4 Greenhaven 1 Green Hornet 5, 13, 14 Green Lantern 1 Grey 1 GrimJack 26, 71, 80 Grimjack Casefiles 5 Guardians of the Galaxy 25 Hammer of God 1 Hamster Vice 1 Harley Rider 1 Haunt of Fear 1 Hercules Unbound 1 Hollywood Superstars 5 I Saw It I am Legend Icarus 1-6 Icon 1 Idol 1 Illuminatus 1 In-Country Nam 2 Interface (epic) 1-3 Intruder (TSR comics module) 3 Invaders from Home 1 Invaders from Mars (eternity) 2 Jademan Kung-Fu Special 1 Jaguar 1 Jason Monarch 1 Jeremiah: Birds of Prey 1, 2 John Byrne's Next Men 1, 3, 4 Judge Dredd 41 Justice Machine 6, 29 Justy 1, 2, 7, 8 Kicker's Inc Kid Cannibal (eternity) 2 Kobra 1 Labor Force (blackthorne) 4 Last American (epic) 1, 3, 4 Last Generation 1, 3, 4 Last of the Viking Heroes 2 Legend of the Shield 1 Legend Killer 1 Legend of Kamui 1, 4, 6, 13, 14, 19 Lensman 7 Lethargic Comics, Weakly 1 Light and Darkness War 1, 2 Living Stone Mountain Loner 1 Lords of the Ultra-Realms 1 Lucifer 1 M.A.C.H. 1 (fleetway) Secret Weapon 1, 2 Master 1 Maxwell Mouse Follies 1 Maze 5, 18, 19 Merlin 3, 6 Meta-4 (first) 1 Metal Bikini (eternity) 6 Metropol 1, 11 Miami Mice 3 (Marke Bode) Midnite the Rebel Skunk 1 Mister E 1 Mr. Monster's True Crime 2 Ms. Tree (renagade) 26, 28, 37, 40 Ms. Tree in 3-D Ms. Tree Quarterly (DC) 3, 4 Mummy 1, 2 Mummy,s Curse (aricel) 1, 3 Myth Conceptions 1 Nathaniel Dusk 2 Nathan Impaler: Monster Hunter (night realm) 1 Nemesis the Warlock (quality) 1, 5 New Beginning 1 New Frontier 1 Newstralia 3 New Triumph featuring Northguard 4 New York Year Zero 1-4 Night Life (caliber) 8 Night Zero (fleetway) 2 Ninja Elite (adventure) 1-5, 7 Nosferatu 1 Official Buz Sawyer 1 Official Prince Valiant 1, 2 Olympians 1 One 1 Open Season 1 Open Space 2, 3 Oracle 1 Original Black Cat 1 OX Cow O' War 1 Pandora Pill 1 Panorama 1 Pathways to Fantasy 1 Patrick Rabbit 1 Penguin in Paris 4 Personality Comics Presents Musics Comics on Tour The Beatles 1 Personality Comics Presents Rolling Stones Pineapple Army 6 Planet of the Apes 8 Portia Prinz of the Glamazons 4 Psycho Killers (comic zone) 6 (Richard Ramirez Punisher and Captain America: Blood and Glory 1-3 Question (DC) 35 Red Heat 1 Retief 1 Rhudiprrt The Prince of Fur 2 Rivit (blackthorne) 1 Robocop vs. The Terminator 1 Rock and Roll Comics 56 (David Bowie) Rockin Rollin Miner Ants (fate) 4 Roger Rabbit's Toontown 1 Runners (rip off press) 1 Sable (first) 19 Same Slade Robohunter Samurai Son of Death Scarlet Kiss 1 Scavengers (quality) 9, 10 Scorched Earth 1, 3 Scout: War Shaman 4 Screen Monsters 1 Sensational She-Hulk (marvel graphic novel 18) shatterpoint (eternity) 2 Shuriken 3 Shuriken Cold Steel 1 Silverfawn 1 Sinbad (adventure) Book 1: The Four Trials #4 Sisterhood of Steel 7 Skreemer (DC) 1, 2 Slaine Slash Maraud 1-6 Song of the Cid (caliber) 2 Sonic Disrupters 6 Space Ark 1 Spellbinders (quality) 3 Spider 1-2 Spider-Man Special 1 (vs. Venom, UNICEF giveaway 1993) Spider-Man and Power Pack (giveaway) Spoof (Spawn Spoof) St George 1 Stalkers (epic) 1 Stark Future (aricel) 5 Starriors 1-4 Steed & Mrs Peel 1 Straw Men (all-american) 1, 2 Street Wolf 2 Super Shark Humanoids 1 Survivors 1 Swords of Shar-Pei 1 Syphons 1 Tales from the Aniverse 3 Tales of Ordinary Madness 1-4 Tales of the Green Hornet 1, 2 Tales of the Jackalope 1 Thundersaur 1 Tomb of Dracula 1 Torrid Affairs 4, 5 Toxic Avenger 1-3 Transmutation of Ike Garuda 1 Trekker 1-5 Trouble with Tigers (antarctic) 1 Twilight Man (first) 1, 4 2000 AD Showcase 50 UFO Alien Contact (comic zone) 1 Ultra Klutz 1 Unicorn Isle 2 Valkyrie 1-3 Anne Rice: Interview With a Vampire 1 Anne Rice: Vampire Companion 1 Anne Rice: Vampire Lestat 5 Venus Wars 1 Video Jack 1-5 Violent Cases Wacky Squirrel Summer Fun Special 1 Wanderers 1 War 1, 2 Warheads 1 Warlock 5 (aricel) 20 Wasteland 5 Web 1 Weird 1 Wizards of the Last Resort 1 World Without End 4 X-Terminators 1-4 Zell Sworddancer 1 Zorro 1 Most comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny polypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is $1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order a large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle. I have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what you've been looking for, and maybe I can help. I will trade for other comics as well as computer equipment, video equipment, etc... Let me know what you want to trade!! -- Geoffrey R. Mason | jrm@elm.circa.ufl.edu Department of Psychology | mason@webb.psych.ufl.edu University of Florida | prothan@maple.circa.ufl.edu ",6 "where is ... Wayne McGuire? Did someone prove he's anon15031@anon.penet.fi, and he ran off to restock on PCP? Miss him. (sniff) ",17 "Re: Seventh Century A.D. Armenian Math Problems koc@rize.ECE.ORST.EDU (Cetin Kaya Koc) writes: >> Problem 1 >> >> My father told me the following story. During the famous wars between the >> Armenians and the Persians, prince Zaurak Kamsarakan performed extraordinary >> heroic deeds. Three times in a single month he attacked the Persian troops. >> The first time, he struck down half of the Persian army. The second time, >> pursuing the Persians, he slaughtered one fourth of the soldiers. The third >> time, he destroyed one eleventh of the Persian army. The Persians who were >> still alive, numbering two hundred eighty, fled to Nakhichevan. And so, from >> this remainder, find how many Persian soldiers there were before the > massacre. >> >Answer: a(1-1/2-1/4-1/11)=280 -> a = 1760 >Corollary: Armenians strike, slaughter, destroy, and massacre. After all, > they are not as innocent as the asala network claims. Hmm ... Turks sure know how to keep track of deaths, but they seem to lose count around 1.5 million. Hovig ",17 "two questions Two questions: 1: I'm trying to figure out how to access cmos advanced chip setting on a EISA motherboard (AIR) that has AMI bios..specifically I would like to set the atclk or wait states or bus speed on this board, I can't seem to be able to do it..any help in this area would be greatly appreciated. 2: I am looking for a phone number for WANGTEK tape drives, specifically I am looking for jumper settings on a 5099EN24 drive.. Thanks in advance. Tony ",3 "Re: ""Give Blood"" Tee Shirts >The shirts are believe or not from a Bob Probert line of clothes. >The whole shirt says ""Give Blood - Fight Probie"". Cool. They sound like a cult classic. Can someone post a address or phone # of a store that sells these? Thanks, -jake. ",10 "Re: Braves & Giants In article <13536@news.duke.edu> fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes: > > Cox should've protested the game the second time the garbage got >thrown at his outfielders. He should also have protested the game at the >point where Ron Gant was assessed the second strike in the ninth, on the >grounds that he (Cox) was on the field and time should have been called. Both protests would be denied, of course. The umpire's judgement determines the garbage thing, although I think the game should be called (but that's my personal opinion...doesn't matter). There is time only when the ump says, so the second argument is baseless. --dave ",9 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article pww@spacsun.rice.edu (Peter Walker) writes: #In article <1qjahh$mrs@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank #O'Dwyer) wrote: #> #> Science (""the real world"") has its basis in values, not the other way round, #> as you would wish it. # #That's a mighty bold assertion. Care to prove it? Theories judged to be simple, by people. Predictions judged to be accurate, by people. These are value judgements, and science doesn't work without them. #> If there is no such thing as objective value, then #> science can not objectively be said to be more useful than a kick in the head. # #I never said it is useful or useless. I say it is an accurate description #of what occurs, people or no people, values or no values. Accurate in whose opinion? Yours? Is the fact that it seems to be an accurate description which applies to everyone of *no* relevance? #> One assumes objective reality, one doesn't know it. # #But one can get supporting evidence from the fact that the reality behaves #the same way in the same situation every time that situaton occurs. # #The same can not be said of morals. Confidently asserted falsehood. On the one hand, people can demonstrate that they value freedom as consistently as they can report the rising of the sun. People will disagree if you say freeedom is worthless no less often than they will disagree if you say evolution (or for that matter, QM or relativity) is an accurate description of observed phenomena. On the other hand, even in the face of a certain amount of disagreement, it remains reasonable to believe in the value of freedom and that QM etc. is an accurate description of observed phenomena. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: Drinking and Riding In article maven@eskimo.com (Norman Hamer) writes: > What is a general rule of thumb for sobriety and cycling? Couple hours after >you ""feel"" sober? What? Or should I just work with ""If I drink tonight, I >don't ride until tomorrow""? Interesting discussion. I limit myself to *one* 'standard serving' of alcohol if I'm going to ride. And mostly, unless the alcohol is something special (fine ale, good wine, or someone else's vsop), I usually just don't drink *any*. But then alcohol just isn't really important to me, mainly for financial reasons... At least one of the magazines claims to follow the aviation guideline of ""no alcohol whatsoever"" within 24hrs of riding a 'company' bike. Don't remember which mag though, it was a few years ago. Regards, Charles (hicc.) DoD:0.001 RZ350 -- Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time, struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing gourd. --Unknown net.person ",8 "Official Secrets act (USA) Sorry, my news reader doesn't seem to know how to copy a subject header. This tracks the thread ""why people don't need strong crypto....."" The Atomic Energy Act of 1954 expressly forbids *thinking* about building nuclear devices. While I was in grad school, a friend of mine got a security clearance to work on the defense for the Progressive magazine. He found lots of articles which were public domain *removed* from the local engineering library (Madison Wisconsin). So the lawyers sent him all over the states to other libraries to show that the information in the article was already public. What pissed everyone off was a local underground paper went and published the article anyway (it had been precensored by the feds, that's what this was all about) so the judge declared the case moot. The Atomic Energy Act of 1954 has never been tested in court. From my discussions with several people familiar with the case, only 2 other times has this preemptive clause been used. In every case the people simply did what they felt like and courts tossed the cases out. For all intents and purposes, the government *does* have precidence for declaring things classified *after* it has been published. While I was working on Star Wars this happened to me: my clearance was in the works and I developed a method for tracking particle beams. It was good enough to classify, so I was no longer allowed to work on it. A friend from Canada was in the same boat: he developed a method to compute stripping cross sections, but because the subject was classified *he was not allowed to present his own paper at a conference!*. He later published it in an open journal without problems. When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro. The feds can do whatever they want whenever they feel like it, and they will make up rules to let themselves get away with it. Since the mass media can't tell the difference between a joke and the real thing (like ""ranch appocolypse"" for the Waco massacre) don't count on them to help spread the word about their loss of freedom. The government *can* make strong crypto illegal. SO WHAT? Since the government does not obey any of its own rules, why should we? Patience, persistence, truth, reality: dvader@hemp-imi.hep.anl.gov Dr. mike home: mrosing@igc.org ",11 "Re: HELP INSTALL RAM ON CENTRIS 610 I had asked everyone about problems installing a 4 meg simm and an 8 meg simm in my Centris 610, but the folks at the local Apple store called the folks in Cupertino and found that you can't have simms of different speeds in one machine, even if they are both fast enough - ie - My 80 ns 8 meg and 60ns 4 meg simms were incompatibable... Just thought people might want to know..... Jason. ",4 "Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot. In article , ada41546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Driftwood) writes: |> |> I totally agree with each point you made. Jose Viscaino looked |> like a single A hitter up there. Who swings on 3-1 count with Maddux |> pitching and your teams down by a run, and you haven't touched the ball |> all |> day. I also think too much is made of that lefty-righty thing. |> Watching |> the Cubs games I get the feeling Steve Stone knows a lot more about |> what |> the Cubs should be doing than Lefebre does. Harry said it best when he |> stated after another terrible Vizcaino at bat-- we can't wait til |> Sandberg returns! I tell you, Steve Stone is like a prophet. He must be making a ton in the boradcoast booth because I can't understand why he's not actually back in the game itself. The other day he called Sosa's homerun against the Sox and claimed the game would be going into extra innings when the score was 8-3 in the 5th. So yesterday he notices that Sosa's ahead in the count against Maddux and says, ""This is a fastball situation and Sosa will be looking for it. But this is also the spot where Maddux throws the straight change."" Sure enough. Sosa gets ahead on it and pops it up to the infield. Stoney for Cubs manager! -Rick ",9 "Post-fever rashes: I get 'em every time The subject-line says it: every time I run a fever, I get an amazing rosy rash over my torso and arms. Fortunately, it doesn't itch. The rash always comes on the day after the fever breaks and no matter what the illness was: cold, flu, whatever. It started happening about four years ago after I moved to my current town, although I don't know if that has anything to do with anything. Severity and persistance of the rash seems to vary with the fever: a severe or long-lasting fever brings a long-lasting rash. A mild fever seems to bring rashes that go away faster. Anybody know what might be causing this? It's no more than an embarassment, but I'd be curious to know what's going on. Am I carrying some kind of fever-resistant bug that goes wild when fever knocks out its competition? Jim Jones ",13 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) wrote: > >""Just sign it and send it, sonny, don't read the fine print. Just > >sign it, sonny! :-). > If you are paying for a phone, and you don't want call-waiting, YOU DON'T > NEED TO PAY FOR CALl-WAITING. > > This whole Clinton induced abortion debate SHOULD begin to make NARAL > nervous, because it has exposed a real scam. Dennis, there are 1E6 things I pay taxes for, and that I don't approve of, such as paying lawyers to postpone death sentences, creating silly weapons that are never used, placing China as the preferred nation while China doesn't have any human rights. The democracy works by selecting the people you want to govern and to make sure that your opinion is heard. Remember what Spock said: ""the needs of the few outweight the needs of the many"". As long as government spending does not contradict the Constitution I don't see any problems in a case where the people have selected a group of people to make decisions in one direction. And if this is bad, then we should elect a new government. Democratic systems work this way, and I don't have anything against you raising an opinion in your case. I just hope you realize that each individual should make their own judgement, and posting pre-filled letters sounds like you don't trust your fellow Americans to utter their own opinion, just your own. Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",18 "Re: Off the shelf cheap DES keyseach machine (Was: Re: Corporate acceptance of the wiretap chip) >I mean, if we can imagine the >machine that does 1 trial/nanosecond, we can imagine the storage medium >that could index and archive it. I think you'd have to do some massive data compression just to fit a bit of key information on each primary particle of the known universe. But, hey, it's fun to imagine. mjr. ",11 "Movie: Plan 9 From Outer Space WANTED I'm looking for a copy of ""Bela Lugosi's last film."" If anyone has a copy of this stinker, please e-mail me. (Also, if anyone knows a better place to post this, please tell me). --- Eric Jaron Stieglitz ejs16@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu School: (212) 853-6883 ""You ate the only thing I ever loved!"" Home: (401) 421-7479 -Seymour, LSoH ",6 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1r1118$4vs@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes: >[] The Jews who found themselves alone against >Rome on Masada faced a future which was infinitely bleaker than the one >faced by the Branch Davidians. The latter, in reality, would likely >have been charged with weapons violations and other sorts of crimes. >Most of them would have likely gotten off entirely. It is highly >unlikely that anyone other than Vernon Howell would have been been >imprisoned for very long. As members of a ""cult"" that ""murdered"" federal agents, I suspect the government would ""provide them with housing"" with a ""lease"" longer than that given to the followers of Charlie Manson. Especially since they have a much larger cheering section among the general population, so the government has a lot more to prove. -- = = = = = = = = = = Michael McClary mcclary@netcom.com For faster response, address electronic mail to: michael@node.com ",16 "Re: President Clinton's Email Address jagst18+@pitt.edu (Josh A Grossman) writes: >Somebody was kind enough to post the Prez's compuserve email address. >I was smart enough to write it down somehwere on some small scap of paper >I can not find. If you've got it please email it to me. CompuServe - ""75300.3115@CompuServe.com"" America On-Line - ""Clintonpz@AOL.com Both are accessible from the InterNet. When you send a not to Slick Willie, you will need to have you US Mail address on the note if you want a response. The White House does not reply by E-Mail. ",16 "Re: Israeli Terrorism In article <1rambk$cee@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes: >ab4z@Virginia.EDU (""Andi Beyer"") writes: [Andi's posting deleted...] Hamaza's only comment is: >Well said Mr. Beyer :) Andi, when you get the full-fledged support of Hamaza Salah, you know you're on the wrong track. -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "Why the drive speeds differ?? Hi all, I just got a La Cie 240 meg external hard drive. Speed tests show that it's substantially faster that my internal 105 meg Quantum HD. Supposedly the 105 and the 240 (both LPS drives) are roughly rated the same speed. Why such a large difference? Marc. -- ______________________________________________________________________________ Marc Matteo, | AppleLink: MATTEO California State University, | Internet: mmatteo@mondrian.CSUFresno.EDU Fresno | AOL: M Matteo ",4 "OS/2 2.0 & Extended Services For SALE ***CHEAP*** For Sale: OS/2 2.0 Extended Services - * Extended Database support * Extended Networking Support * Remote Host support * Extended Communication Support PLUS! A copy of OS/2 2.0. The ES package is brand new and uninstalled, all manuals, disks, etc. are included. The ES package retails for $495 with OS/2 2.0 selling for $79 or something like that. I'll let both of them go for $200. My needs changed thus eliminating my need for the package once I bought it. If Interested, please Email me at: Mark Teskey teskey@plains.nodak.edu ============================================================================ Mark W. Teskey o/ INTERNET: teskey@plains.nodak.edu <| stayin' UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!teskey / > alive! ============================================================================ -- Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! -- ",6 "Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES In article <1993Apr20.110021.5746@kth.se>, hilmi-er@dsv.su.se (Hilmi Eren) writes: henrik] The Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their henrik] RIGHTS to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are henrik] INVADING their homeland. HE] Homeland? First Nagarno-Karabagh was Armenians homeland today HE] Fizuli, Lacin and several villages (in Azerbadjan) HE] are their homeland. Can't you see the HE] the ""Great Armenia"" dream in this? With facist methods like HE] killing, raping and bombing villages. The last move was the HE] blast of a truck with 60 kurdish refugees, trying to HE] escape the from Lacin, a city that was ""given"" to the Kurds HE] by the Armenians. Nagorno-Karabakh is in Azerbaijan not Armenia. Armenians have lived in Nagorno- Karabakh ever since there were Armenians. Armenians used to live in the areas between Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh and this area is being used to invade Nagorno- Karabakh. Armenians are defending themselves. If Azeris are dying because of a policy of attacking Armenians, then something is wrong with this policy. If I recall correctly, it was Stalin who caused all this problem with land in the first place, not the Armenians. henrik] However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane henrik] to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one henrik] that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane henrik] (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA. HE] Don't speak about things you don't know: 8 U.S. Cargo planes HE] were heading to Armenia. When the Turkish authorities HE] announced that they were going to search these cargo HE] planes 3 of these planes returned to it's base in Germany. HE] 5 of these planes were searched in Turkey. The content of HE] of the other 3 planes? Not hard to guess, is it? It was sure not HE] humanitarian aid..... What story are you talking about? Planes from the U.S. have been sending aid into Armenian for two years. I would not like to guess about what were in the 3 planes in your story, I would like to find out. HE] Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about. HE] Turkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons HE] to Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan HE] it self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons HE] since it's content is announced to be weapons? It's too bad you would want Turkey to start a war with Armenia. ",17 "Re: How many Mutlus can dance on the head of a pin? In article <3456@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes: >In jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel Furr) writes: >>How many Mutlus can dance on the head of a pin? > >That reminds me of the Armenian massacre of the Turks. > >Joel, I took out SCT, are we sure we want to invoke the name of he who >greps for Mason Kibo's last name lest he include AFU in his daily >rounds? I dunno, Warren. Just the other day I heard a rumor that ""Serdar Argic"" (aka Hasan Mutlu and Ahmed Cosar and ZUMABOT) is not really a Turk at all, but in fact is an Armenian who is attempting to make any discussion of the massacres in Armenia of Turks so noise-laden as to make serious discussion impossible, thereby cloaking the historical record with a tremendous cloud of confusion. ",17 "Re: Potential World-Bearing Stars? In article dan@visix.com (Daniel Appelquist) writes: I'm on a fact-finding mission, trying to find out if there exists a list of potentially world-bearing stars within 100 light years of the Sun... Is anyone currently working on this sort of thing? Thanks... Dan -- In principle, any star resembling the Sun (mass, luminosity) might have planets located in a suitable orbit. There several within 100 ly of the sun. They are single stars, for double or multiple systems might be troublesome. There's a list located at ames.arc.nasa.gov somewhere in pub/SPACE. I think it is called stars.dat. By the way, what kind of project, if I may know? Rui -- *** Infinity is at hand! Rui Sousa *** If yours is big enough, grab it! ruca@saber-si.pt All opinions expressed here are strictly my own ",14 "WANTED: SIRD Alogorythmn Hi, I'm interested in writing a program to generate a SIRD picture, you know the stereogram where you cross your eyes and the picture becomes 3D. Does anyone have one or know where I can get one? Please e-mail to steveq@sndcrft.DIALix.oz.au with any replies. Many thanks for your help. Steve Q. ",1 "Re: HD Setup Partition (Was: OK to set 54 lbs on top of Centris 610??? In article <1993Apr15.143516.17221@urbana.mcd.mot.com>, feldman@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Mike Feldman) wrote: > > > Now if I can figure out if there's any hope using the ""partition"" button > on the hard disk setup utility (do I dare just try it and see what happens?), > then maybe I can divide up the wealth among the family members a bit more > securly. The ""getting more information"" section of the manual suggested > trying other avenues before calling Apple, but didn't mention the net. > -- > Mike Feldman, Motorola Computer Group, (217) 384-8538, FAX (217) 384-8550 > 1101 East University Avenue Pager in IL (800) 302-7738, (217) 351-0009 > Urbana, IL 61801-2009 (mcdphx|uiucuxc)!udc!feldman feldman@urbana.mcd.mot.com The Partition button in Apple's HD Setup lets you set up A/UX and other types of partitions. It WON'T let you create more than one normal mac volume. You need SilverLining or something similar to do that. It WILL, however, allow you to take advantage of some possible unused space on your hard disk, if you don't mind reformatting the whole thing. Chris Ellens ellens@bnr.ca ",4 "more on radiosity In article <1993Apr19.131239.11670@aragorn.unibe.ch>, you write: |> |> |> Let's be serious... I'm working on a radiosity package, written in C++. |> I would like to make it public domain. I'll announce it in c.g. the minute |> I finished it. |> |> That were the good news. The bad news: It'll take another 2 months (at least) |> to finish it. Are you using the traditional radiosity method, progressive refinement, or something else in your package? If you need to project patches on the hemi-cube surfaces, what technique are you using? Do you have hardware to facilitate the projection? |> |> In the meantime you may have a look at the file |> Radiosity_code.tar.Z |> located at |> compute1.cc.ncsu.edu What are the guest username and password for this ftp site? |> |> (there are some other locations; have a look at archie to get the nearest) |> |> Hope that'll help. |> |> Yours |> |> Stephan |> Thanks, Stephan. Josephine ",1 "Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership In article <1993Apr6.131018.12873@acd4.acd.com> jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey) writes: >In article <1993Apr2.174850.6289@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes: >> >>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning >>will do much more good than just using detergent gas. While I >>agree that a clogged fuel injector would darken my day, how clogged >>do they get, and is $59 a good price (or can I do it myself by buying >>a can of ____ (what?) and doing ___ what? > > >A ""fuel injector cleaning"" at the dealer is probably little more than >them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner, >and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer. Go to KMart and buy the >cleaner yourself for $1.29. Personally, i wouldn't use the $1.29 product from KMart. I knew about this previously, but this past weekend on PBS's MotorWeek Pat Goss (their resident tech type) discussed these products, and recommends not using them (i.e, the non-isopropyl alcohlo based injector cleaners). Supposedly only the isopropyl based cleaners actually remove moisture from your fuel tank as they clean your injectors. And although the others (ethyl based) do clean injectors they also cause rubber components in the fuel system to deteriorate, and they don't mix well with water to help remove it from the fuel system. I use a product recommended by VW called 44K (by BG Products, Inc.). It cost more about $14.00, but it is supposed to do the job without the potential harmful side effects, and its results are supposed to last from 2k to 4k miles. I have also used Chevron's Techtrolene (sp?). I can't say that i have noticed any difference using either, since i only use these product as a preventative maintenance item. > >Just because you dealer sez you need it, don't mean it's necessarily so. >Be suspicious. > >jim grey >jwg@acd4.acd.com . / Larry __/ _______/_ keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \ _____ __ _____ \------- === ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \ / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ | | / \/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \ / /___ \_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO \ / \ / - 1990 2.0 16v - ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates that you probably wouldn't understand anyway! ------------------------------------------------------------ ",7 "Re: Israel's Expansion In article <18APR93.15729846.0076@VM1.MCGILL.CA> B8HA000 writes: >1) Is Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon temporary? Israel has repeatedly stated that it will leave Lebanon when the Lebanese government can provide guarantees that Israel will not be attacked from Lebanese soil, and when the Syrians leave. >2) Is Israel's occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan >temporary? The three are very different issues. Israel has stated repeatedly that it will not give up the whole Golan, but may be willing to give part of it to Syria as part of a peace agreement. Israel has already annexed areas taken over in the 1967 war. These areas are not occupied, but disputed, since there is no legitamate governing body. Citizenship was given to those residents in annexed areas who wanted citizenship. Israel should keep control of parts of the West Bank, IMHO. The parts that should be kept are the westernmost mountain ridge, which contain few arab towns, and many suburbs, as well as overlooking the city of Tel Aviv. The Eastern mountain ridge should be abandonded. This is where most of the arabs live and it is less militarily relevant. Israel should also maintain a presence in the Jordan valley. >If so (for those of you who support it), why were so >many settlers moved into the territories? If it is not temporary, >let's hear it. There are a number of reasons for people to move (they were not moved, but chose to move) into disputed areas. Note that since these moves were made by free willed human beings, not ""settlers,"" I will address two aspects of your question, why the government would allow &/or encourage them to move, and second why they did move. The government had a number of reasons for encouraging people to move across the green line. They included security and politics. The first reason was security. A large Jewish presense makes it difficult for terrorists to infiltrate. A Jewish settlements also act as fortresses in times of war. A second reason was political. Creating ""settlements"" brought the arabs to the negotiation table. Had the creation of new towns and cities gone on another several years, there would be no place left in Israel where there was an arab majority. There would have been no land left that could be called arab. The fact that there are a hundered thousands Jews in place changes the face of any peace settlement, and restricts what land can be given away. Individuals who crossed the green line had several reasons for doing so. They include financial, religious, and political reasons. Many of the communities created were ""bedroom"" communities. Suburbs. A house 20 minutes outside of Tel Aviv cost half less if it was on the wrong side of the green line. People who moved there wanted a decent home at a nice price. Some of the communites created were religious. They built their neighborhoods in areas where there were jews until the riots of the 30's and 40's. There are communities like this in Hebron, Gaza, and all over. There are also communities built near religious sites. The last reason people moved was to establish a political Jewish presense outside the green line. They built communities to control important intersections, important hilltops, roads, and other places. The point is, there are many reasons people moved over the green line, and many reasons the government wanted them to. Whatever status is negotiated for disputed territories, it will not be an ""all or nothing"" deal. New boundaries will be drawn up by negotiation, not be the results of a war. Adam Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu ""If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."" -John Perry Barlow ",18 "Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What??? One thing that everyone is forgetting in this argument over the pricing of the SC1 vs. the Japanese cars is the Saturns ""no-dicker sticker"". This makes the Saturn's price low in comparison to the inflated base prices of the Japanese competition on paper, but in reality, one could dicker several hundred dollars off the price of the Japanese cars. Admittedly, though, here in Canada, at least, the SC2 is in the same price class as the Civic Si, not the SC1. Steve Hui ",7 "Problem with libXmu on SUNOS5.1 and gcc I am using X11R5patch23 with the R5-SUNOS5 patch posted on export. I did optionally apply the patch.olit. libXmu compiles fine .. when I try to use it with clients (i.e. bmtoa and twm), I get errors ... I can not figure out what is wrong: gcc -fpcc-struct-return -o twm gram.o lex.o deftwmrc.o add_window.o gc.o list.o twm.o parse.o menus.o events.o resize.o util.o version.o iconmgr.o cursor.o icons.o -O2 -R/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib${LD_RUN_PATH+\:$LD_RUN_PATH} -L../.././lib/Xmu -lXmu -L../.././lib/Xt -L../.././extensions/lib -L../.././lib/X -L../.././extensions/lib -lXext -L../.././extensions/lib -lXext -L../.././lib/X -lX11 -L/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib -lsocket -lnsl ld: warning: file ../.././extensions/lib/libXext.so: attempted multiple inclusion of file libXext.so Undefined first referenced symbol in file XtAppSetWarningMsgHandler ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtScreenDatabase ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtDisplayStringConversionWarning ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtErrorMsg ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtRealloc ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtIsManaged ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtMalloc ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtGetApplicationResources ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtOwnSelection ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtGetConstraintResourceList ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtCalloc ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtName ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtStringConversionWarning ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtAppSetTypeConverter ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtDisplayToApplicationContext ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtGetResourceList ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtFree ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtDestroyWidget ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtGetValues ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtWarningMsg ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtTranslateCoords ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtCvtStringToFont ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtWidgetToApplicationContext ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtWarning ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtCreateWidget ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtWindowOfObject ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtVaSetValues ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtAppWarningMsg ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtGetSelectionValue ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so XtResolvePathname ../.././lib/Xmu/libXmu.so ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to twm *** Error code 1 -- Douglas L.Acker Western Geophysical Exploration Products ____ ____ ____ a division of Western Atlas International Inc. \ \ / /\ / /\ A Litton / Dresser Company \ \/ / \ / / \ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ \ / / \ / /\ \ Internet : acker@wg2.waii.com \/___/ \/___/ \___\ Voice : (713) 964-6128 ",5 "Re: Peace Talks Resume In article<392@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP>ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP(TsielOhayon)writes: >In article <2BDD9DFC.13587@news.service.uci.edu> Tim Clock writes: > >[TC] Do you, as I do, agree that this (sort) of ""peace process"" is needed? >[TC] What about the particular points mentioned in the article? Is what >[TC] Israel is (supposedly) going to propose ""good""? Does it go too far? >[TC] Not far enough? >[TC] If you don't agree that a ""peace process"" is needed, what is? > >I personally think that a peace process is needed, since only through >negotiations will the future generations be able to live in stability. >Unfortunately not all think like this, we have cases like: > Anas Omran, Hamza Saleh, Jle, Mohammed Reza, Mehmed Abu-Abed, >Anwar Mohammed and others who think that JIHAD is the only solution. > If we can't avoid throwing out gut-reactions to what we see as ""extremist"" views here in the newsgroup, we're certainly not going to be any better at it in the real world. Hey, it easy here. After reading the offending post, we can step back, take some deep breathing exercises, have a gallon of ice cream (or sex, whichever calmsus), and reply in something other than the usual king-of-the-hill mentality. > >My view is that Israel has made more gestures towards its Arab foes than the >opposite. What have the Sysrians given to us or proposed? What have the >Palestinians proposed? If the Palestinians would just revoke or rewrite their >charter, or just condemn acts of Palestinian violence that would be a good >start. Perhaps, starting here with an immediate ""accusation"" is not a particularly good way to generate open responses? How about explaining what you see as being Israel's *real worries* and how they *need* to be addressed? Since the ""other side"" sees Israel's ""gestures"" in a completely different light than you do, perhaps ""they"" also have *real worries*. From their point of view, what are they? How can those worries be addressed? >The Palestinians have all to gain from these negotiations. Its seems though >that they are not strong enough to make decisions on their own and are >plagued by internal strife, that is why we are not getting anywhere. >Fundamentalism is slowly taking over in the territories, then it will be >too late to discuss issues with the Palestinians since they will only >vow for the destruction of Israel. > It is certainly much harder to ""reach compromise"" (or, even sit down and talk with...) an other side which is fractured into several different ideologies, each with its own set of ""demands"". While it is up to ""them"" to generate unity on their side, is there anything that Israel can do (without sacrificing its security, its position) to encourage that unification along lines that Israel prefers? > >Arabs must take example on Egypt. Egypt came to the bargaining table, >got what it wanted from Israel and there is now peace and cooperation >between the two countries. >The tougher you play ball with Israel the tougher Israel gets. > >Tsiel > -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... Enough, already. Let's take this discussion to some other newsgroup that's more appropriate. Most of us are tired of it and would like to get back to old cars, IMHO. Chuck Lampman (chuck.lampman@gstrf.gatech.edu) ",7 "Re: ^^ Phosphorescent pads ... baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (baden de bari) writes: > > A while ago I saw some translucent pads, about 6""x8"" or so that >could be plugged into (something) and they would glow. One was red, >another green, another blue. Interresting. I was wondering if anyone >would have a feed on anything of this nature, and of the price. > oh, the pads were rubber-like and were floppy like, about 1cm thick or >so. The curiosities that you speak of are EL (Electro-Luminescent) pads. They are mostly used as backlights for LCD's, and as you pointed out, comes in several different colors. Many of them emit white-ish colors (""true"" white, and blue-whiteis-blue are the ones that I've personally encountered the most often.) They vary in their input requirements, however, they tend to operate at about 100 Vrms, and at much higher than 60 Hz. (400 Hz to 1 kHz, if I recall correctly.) You can get them to work at 120 Vrms, 60 Hz (i.e., line) but they don't glow as brightly, and they will degrade much faster. (Oh yes, almost forgot, EL's have this tendency to wear out over time...) -- Joseph Chiu | josephc@cco.caltech.edu ""OS/2: You gotta get this thing!"" MSC 380 - Caltech | Pasadena, CA 91126 | Dear IBM: Hire bunch of technically incompetent people +1 818 449 5457 | (like my brother) to test OS/2 installation procedures. ",12 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article , pmy@vivaldi.acc.virginia.edu (Pete Yadlowsky) writes: |> |> Anyway, I've often wondered what business followers of Christ would have |> with weapons. |> |> -- |> Peter M. Yadlowsky | Wake! The sky is light! |> Academic Computing Center | Let us to the Net again... |> University of Virginia | Companion keyboard. |> pmy@Virginia.EDU | - after Basho IMO, a Christian has no need of weapons. I know it is very contrary to the American NRA ethos of the right to bear arms, but Christians should rely on the strength of God to protect them. Note that I say *should*. We are inherently insecure but I feel that that is not proper justification to be armed to the teeth. A Christian should not have to rely on physical weapons to defend himself. A Christian should rely on his faith and intelligence. For instance, I have the faith that God will protect me but God also gave me the intelligence to know not to go walking down that dark alley at night. To jump off a cliff and say that God will save me would be putting God to the test. And who are we to test God? God be with you, Malcolm Lee :) ",19 "Now available: xvertext.4.0 Now available: xvertext 4.0 -------------- Summary ------- xvertext provides you with four functions to draw strings at any angle in an X window (previous versions were limited to vertical text). Rotation is still achieved using XImages, but the notion of rotating a whole font first has been dropped. What's new? ----------- I've added a cache which keeps a copy of previously rotated strings - thus speeding up redraws. Where can I get it? ------------------- comp.sources.x (soon...) export.lcs.mit.edu : contrib/xvertext.4.0.shar.Z (now) -- Alan Richardson, * ""You don't have to be * School of Maths & Physical Sciences, * old to be wise"" * Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QH, ENGLAND * ******Judas Priest***** UK: mppa3@uk.ac.sussex.syma elsewhere: mppa3@syma.sussex.ac.uk ",5 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? >P.S. The title for this thread is ridiculous. Feds couldn't give a hoot >about their religous ideas - weapons was the problem. Similar situations >have popped up with those ""I'm not gonna pay taxes"" freaks in Idaho, etc. >where religion clearly has no bearing. Religous freedom here, as an issue, >is a complete smokescreen. Exactly. What would happen if I barracade myself in my house for a while with lots of firearms. Then, when the police come with a search warrent, first I slam the door in their face, then shoot at them when they try to enter. After this, I shoot at people who try to get me to come out. This sort of thing happens every now and then, and it usually ends up being a shoot-out between the police and the person(s) behind the barricade. Why are the Branch Davidians any different? Bruce Giese ",19 "Re: Flyback squeal in video monitors In article <1993Mar31.204036.4359@ssc.com>, markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier) writes: |> Zack Lau (zlau@arrl.org) wrote: |> : In sci.electronics, xhan@uceng.uc.edu (Xiaoping Han) writes: |> : >In article <1993Mar24.163510.158@hubcap.clemson.edu> michaet@hubcap.clemson.edu (Michael D. Townsend) writes: |> : >>brendan@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Brendan Jones) writes: |> : >> |> : >>My mom's 25"" Magnavox does this as well. I put chewing gum all around |> : >>the horizontal sync transformer so it wouldn't resonate the board as |> : >>much. Don't flame, it worked. I realize that there is a more suitable |> : >>substance available for this purpose, but I don't remember what and |> : >>where it is. |> : |> : >Adhesive silicon, from hardware store. |> : |> : If it smells like vinegar, it may damage metal surfaces by |> : promoting corrosion. |> |> Anybody tried Superglue (cyanoacrylate ?). This should sneak |> into the cracks better, and is stiffer than silicone. I've found this works pretty well on noisy laminated power transformer cores and windings (the 60Hz kind). Likewise, if anybody has tried this on a flyback I'd like to hear about it. I would suspect it would not be as effective as it was on power transformers as the material wouldn't damp as well--something I suspect would be critical at the frequencies involved (in other words, you want absorption rather than prevention which would be real difficult at 15 KHz). -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Medin Phone: (205) 730-3169 (w) SSD--Networking (205) 837-1174 (h) Intergraph Corp. M/S GD3004 Internet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com Huntsville, AL 35894 UUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) ******* * The opinions expressed here are mine (or those of my machine) ",12 "Re: Koresh Doctrine -- 4 of 4 In article <1993Apr23.171256.5541@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, clavazzi@nyx.cs.du.edu(The_Doge) writes: |> |> Deleted: vast quantities of carefully-annoted spew from ""David Koresh"" |> I don't know about the rest of you, but I think Mr. Tice needs a hobby. He has one. He spent last summer telling everyone who doubted the word of the great Perot that they were bigotted perot-bashers, right up to the moment he chickened out on them. He then kept quiet for a bit and then came back when Perot re-entered. I am avidly collecting Koresh rumours, the nuttier the better. So far I have three posts in my mailbox claiming that the Warrant for the search 1) Never existed. 2) Did not authorize ""no knock"", helicopters etc. 3) Was completely irrelevant because the laws wer unconstitutional. I am avidly trying to locate a copy of the ""Book of Koresh"" that a number have claimed exist. Then there is the rumour that Loresh in fact survived the fire in a secret hideyhole and rose again on the third day only to be spirited away by FBI agents and disposed of in order to prevent a cult following. The source of the fire is variously attributed to a deliberate act on the part of the FBI, an accident or an act of God. In the same way I really like the ""miracle amunition belt"" story. The idea being that in a just cause God will supply amunition ""fear not for the Lord himself shall place the arrows in your bow"". Neat eh? The BATF agents were thus definitively shot by the will of God himself. I can't see why they needed the million rounds of ammo though in that case. If you have some Koresh material that hasn't gone to the net then please send it to me. In particular I really do want to see the book of Koresh, but no making one up please. I want the real Mcoy, the one the Feds discoverd on the third day in a box with seven seals and are suppressing. I will editorialize for the benefit of the net to produce a ""definitive"" history. I would prefer though to have genuine rather than made to measure Koreshia. There are plenty of genuinly unhinged loons so as to not need to start making it up. Of course if you are an unhinged loon then I want to hear from you. Phill Hallam-Baker PS Libel suits not welcome. ",18 "Re: Electronic Components etc I said >Cipher tape drives $10.00 what a SILLY boy i was, now i have zillions of messages like ""does that include shipping"" ""is it scsi"" ""what rom version is it"" ""will it work on a maximegalon gargantuabrain 9000"" ok, the deal is this - if you live in the twin cities, email me, and set up a time, sure, you can drop round and grab one for a tenner. Else Min order $20 (2 drives) + shipping. No guarantees they are good for any purpose at all (they look newish & clean), no technical negotiations. They are model 525 floppytape, part # 960273-639 revision D. 17 pin floppy style connector on the back Else They go in the bin - life is too short for extended negotiations over $10 items :-) cheers Mike. ",6 "Re: Israel's Expansion II eeb1@kimbark.uchicago.edu writes: > In article <1993Apr27.203456.9605@Virginia.EDU> > ab4z@Virginia.EDU (""Andi Beyer"") writes: > > > The Jews that were stranded on the polish border since > >no country accepted them are like the arabs stranded on the > >lebenese border. No trials, no hearing, just expulsion based on > >guilt due to race. > > Not due to race. Due to membership in an organization which > publically proclaimed it would destroy the state which expelled them > -- and furthermore kill a large segment of the citizens of that state, > based on race. > Actually that's only what the Israeli government claims. There were no trials held (Which is a key thing in a free country like the U.S.). ",17 "Re: NC vs Hunt (Marine Gay Bashing in Wilmington NC) verdict >In article <1993Apr17.161720.18197@bsu-ucs> 00cmmiller@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes >: >>> How about the fact that you have a bunch of cops putting their lives >on >>> the line day in and day out who are afraid as hell of a large black guy that >>> took a large amount of punishment and refused submit? Oh yeah, did you watc >h >>> the start of the video when King got UP out of his prone postion and charge >>> the cops? Sorry, the video cuts both was when you sit and watch it start to Even if Rodney King had come out of that car waving a gun and they managed to disarm him, the police still had no right right to beat him senseless the way they did once he was on the ground. If they can't handle their jobs, they should be relieved of them. Additionally, Anna Quindlan of the New York Times said it best (paraphrase): Many people bring up what happened before what is shown on the tape. Here's what came before: the 80's, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, racism,... -jim halat ",18 "Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe?? In article <1r1r4bINNfja@tamsun.tamu.edu> jlong@emcnext2.tamu.edu (James Long) writes: >In article <1r1crn$27g@transfer.stratus.com> tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com >(Tommy Szeto) writes: >> Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe. Every >> once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water >> under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk. I would guess this usually >happens >> after a good thunder storm. A few Qs: >> >> 1) Is this a common problem? >> 2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch? > >I noticed this is my '89 probe also, when recently cleaning out the back. I >think the water is coming *up* through some rubber stoppered holes beneath the >spare. Mine looked slightly worn, and there was no water or water damage above >the level of the spare area. I have the same problem with my '90 probe. The water is definitely not comming up from the rubber stoppered hole beneath the spare. I have to remove the rubber stopper to drain the water. Seems like a common problem with probe. Po Sum Chung email: chung@ames.arc.nasa.gov ",7 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article <1993Apr22.065357.9667@cs.aukuni.ac.nz> pgut1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) writes: [article deleted] > >Just doing a quick reality check here - is this for real or did someone >invent it to provoke a reaction from people? It sounds more like the >sort of thing you'd have heard, suitably rephrased, from the leader of a >certain German political party in the 1930's.... It sounds like a joke (but then the war on drugs has always been a joke...). -- ------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! . \ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . . \ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . . \/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . . ",11 "Looking for Brain in CAD Jasen Mabus RPI student I am looking for a hman brain in any CAD (.dxf,.cad,.iges,.cgm,etc.) or picture (.gif,.jpg,.ras,etc.) format for an animation demonstration. If any has or knows of a location please reply by e-mail to mabusj@rpi.edu. Thank you in advance, Jasen Mabus ",1 "Re: Ron Francis In article <1993Apr19.171223.11311@Virginia.EDU> mjr4u@Virginia.EDU (""Matthew J. Rush"") writes: > I forgot to ask: Is this the highest points total Francis has >had in a season? Has he ever had a 100 point season before, >either with the Pens or the Whalers? > Francis got 101 in 89-90, his last full season with Hartford. In agreement with your previous post, I think Francis is a tremendous and generally underrated complete player. I would LOVE to have him here in a Capitals uniform where he would certainly be the #1 center (even though Pivonka is also a very good complete player who is generally underrated). Francis impresses me in many ways as an ""ethical Dale Hunter"". Tons of heart and can-do attitude with a lot of different skills, but none of the cheap shots and few penalty minutes. Not to mention nearly always coming through when it's important. ",10 "Apple II+ Clone For Sale (plus extras) $170 Please take this system off my hands. I no longer use it and it is taking up valuable room. They system consists of a Microcom PDOS Apple II+ clone with 64k on board and PDOS installed. It comes with a load of boards, including: a disk drive board, 2 Z80 boards, a 16k board, an 80 column board, a couple printer boards including the Grappler II+. It has 2 1/2 height drives and a cooling fan attachement. The keyboard is of the extended variety with builting keywords and a keypad. All of it for $170. Brett Maraldo - Plexus Productions -- -------- Unit 36 Research --------- ""Alien Technology Today"" bmaraldo@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca {uunet!clyde!utai}!watserv1!bmaraldo ",6 "Re: Looking for MOVIES w/ BIKES In article csundh30@ursa.calvin.edu (Charles Sundheim) writes: > >I am assembling info for a Film Criticism class final project. > man, every time this thread comes up, i start jumping up and down screaming ' EASY WHEELS! EASY WHEELS!' but to date, it seems like _i'm_ the only one who' s ever seen this. it's absolutely hysterical. basic plot is this: reporter searching for a ring of babysnatchers is blow off the road by a ( very hot) gang of babe bikers in leather. he is rescued from his wrecked car in the desert by a xtian gospal biker band lead by an ex viet-nam vet with a steel plate in his head that gives him visions from time to time. they soon discover that the gang 'o babes is kidnapping children to be raised by wolves (the reasoning behind this is complex), and they set out to stop them and restore justice and order to the world. it is one of the 5 funniest movies i have ever seen in my life. -- kyle cassidy cassidy@rowan.edu ""fire all of your guns at once!"" DoD #760 ",8 "400 big block As the subject says. It has 70k and my brother-in-law wants $250. Please don't reply to me as I am posting this for him. Here's his numbers : 5pm-10pm 712 676 3669 daytime 712 269 1261 -- Dave Schrader schrader@eai.iastate.edu ",7 "HICN611 Medical News Part 2/4 ------------- cut here ----------------- HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 13 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Food & Drug Administration News :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: FDA Approves Depo Provera, injectable contraceptive P92-31 Food and Drug Administration FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Susan Cruzan - (301) 443-3285 The Food and Drug Administration today announced the approval of Depo Provera, an injectable contraceptive drug. The drug, which contains a synthetic hormone similar to the natural hormone progesterone, protects women from pregnancy for three months per injection. The hormone is injected into the muscle of the arm or buttock where it is released into the bloodstream to prevent pregnancy. It is more than 99 percent effective. ""This drug presents another long-term, effective option for women to prevent pregnancy,"" said FDA Commissioner David A. Kessler, M.D. ""As an injectable, given once every three months, Depo Provera eliminates problems related to missing a daily dose."" Depo Provera is available in 150 mg. single dose vials from doctors and clinics and must be given on a regular basis to maintain contraceptive protection. If a patient decides to become pregnant, she discontinues the injections. As with any such products, FDA advises patients to discuss the benefits and risks of Depo Provera with their doctor or other health care professional before making a decision to use it. Depo Provera's effectiveness as a contraceptive was established in extensive studies by the manufacturer, the World Health Organization and health agencies in other countries. U.S. clinical trials, begun in 1963, also found Depo Provera effective as an injectable contraceptive. The most common side effects are menstrual irregularities and weight gain. In addition, some patients may experience headache, nervousness, abdominal pain, dizziness, weakness or fatigue. The drug should not be used in women who have acute liver disease, unexplained vaginal bleeding, breast cancer or blood clots in the legs, lungs or eyes. The labeling advises doctors to rule out pregnancy before prescribing the drug, due to concerns about low birth weight in babies exposed to the drug. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 14 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 Recent data have also demonstrated that long-term use may contribute to osteoporosis. The manufacturer will conduct additional research to study this potential effect. Depo Provera was Developed in the 1960s and has been approved for contraception in many other countries. The UpJohn Company of Kalamazoo, Mich., which will market the drug under the name, Depo Provera Contraceptive Injection, first submitted it for approval in the United States in the 1970s. At that time, animal studies raised questions about its potential to cause breast cancer. Worldwide studies have since found the overall risk of cancer, including breast cancer in humans, to be minimal if any. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 15 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 New Rules Speed Approval of Drugs for Life-Threatening Illnesses P92-37 Food and Drug Administration Monica Revelle - (301) 443-4177 The Food and Drug Administration today announced that it will soon publish new rules to shed the approval of drugs for patients with serious or life- threatening illnesses, such as AIDS, cancer and Alzheimer's disease. ""These final rules will help patients who are suffering the most serious illnesses to get access to new drugs months or even years earlier than would otherwise be possible,"" said HHS Secretary Louis W. Sullivan, M.D. ""The effort to accelerate FDA review for these drugs has been a long-term commitment and indeed a hallmark of this administration."" These rules establish procedures for the Food and Drug Administration to approve a drug based on ""surrogate endpoints"" or markers. They apply when the drug provides a meaningful benefit over currently available therapies. Such endpoints would include laboratory tests or physical signs that do not in themselves constitute a clinical effect but that are judged by qualified scientists to be likely to correspond to real benefits to the patient. Use of surrogate endpoints for measurement of drug efficacy permits approval earlier than if traditional endpoints -- such as relief of disease symptoms or prevention of disability and death from the disease -- are used. The new rules provide for therapies to be approved as soon as safety and effectiveness, based on surrogate endpoints, can be reasonably established. The drug's sponsor will be required to agree to continue or conduct postmarketing human studies to confirm that the drug's effect on the surrogate endpoint is an indicator of its clinical effectiveness. One new drug -- zalcitabine (also called ddC) -- was approved June 19, using a model of this process, for treating the human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, the cause of AIDS. Accelerated approval can also be used, if necessary, when FDA determines that a drug, judged to be effective for the treatment of a disease, can be used safely only under a restricted distribution plan. ""The new rules will help streamline the drug development and review process without sacrificing goad science and rigorous FDA oversight,"" said FDA commissioner David A. Kessler, M.D. ""While drug approval will be accomplished faster, these drugs and biological products must still meet safety and effectiveness standards required by law."" HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 16 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 The new procedures also allow for a streamlined withdrawal process if the postmarketing studies do not verify the drug's clinical benefit, if there is new evidence that the drug product is not shown to be safe and effective, or if other specified circumstances arise that necessitate expeditious withdrawal of the drug or biologic. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 17 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Articles :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Research Shows Promise for Preventing or Slowing Blindness due to Retinal Disease National Retinitis Pigmentosa Foundation Neutrophilic Factors Rescue Photoreceptor Cells in Animal Tests Baltimore, MD - Researchers at the University of California San Francisco and Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. [NASDAQ: REGN] have discovered that certain naturally occurring substances known as neurotrophic factors can prevent the degeneration of light-sensing cells in the retina of the eye. The degeneration of these cells, known as photoreceptors, is a major cause of visual impairment This research, published to in the December issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science (PNAS), holds promise for people who may lose their sight due to progressive retinal degeneration -- currently, no drug treatment for retinal degeneration exists. It is estimated that 2.5 million Americans have severe vision loss due to age-related macular degeneration and 100,000 Americans are affected by retinitis pigmentosus, a hereditary disease that causes blindness. In addition, each year more than 15,000 people undergo surgical procedures to repair retinal detachments and other retinal traumas. The research was funded in part by the RP (Retinitis Pigmentosa) Foundation Fighting Blindness, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals and the National Eye Institute. It was conducted by Drs. Matthew M. LaVail, Kazuhiko Unoki, Douglas Yasurnura, Michael T. Matthes and Roy H. Steinberg at UCSF, arld Dr. C;eorge Yancoooulos, Regeneron's Vice President for Discovery. Regeneron holds an exclusive license for this research from UCSF. In the research described in the PNAS , a light-damage model was used to assess the survival-promoting activity of a number of naturally occurring substances. Experimental rats were exposed to constant light for one week. Eyes that had not been treated with an effective factor lost most of their photoreceptor cells -- the rods and cones of the retina -- after light exposure. Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) and Ciliary Neurotrophic Factor (CNTF) were particularly effective in this model without causing unwanted side effects; other factors such as Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) and Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1) were not effective in these experiments. Discussing the research, Dr. Jesse M. Cedarbaum, Regeneron's Director of Clinical Research, said, ""BDNF's ability to rescue neurons in the retina that have been damaged by light exposure may hold promise for the treatment of age- related macular degeneration, one of the leading causes of vision impairment, and for retinal detachment. Following detachment, permanent vision loss may HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 18 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 result frorn the death of detached retinal cells. It is possible that BDNF could play a role in rescuing those cells once the retina has been reattached surgically."" ""Retinitis pigmentosa is a slowly progressing disease that causes the retina to degenerate over a period of years or even decades. Vision decreases to a small tunnel of sight and can result in total blindness. It is our hope that research on growth factors will provide a means to slow the progression and preserve useful vision throughout life,"" stated Jeanette S. Felix, Ph.D., Director of Science for the RP Foundation Fighting Blindness. In addition to the work described , Regeneron is developing BDNF in conjunction with Aingen Inc. [NASDAQ:AMGN] as a possible treatment for peripheral neuropathies associated with diabetes and cancer chemotherapy, motor neuron diseases, Parkinson's disease, and Alzheimer's disease. By itself, Regeneron is testing CNTF in patients with arnyotrophic lateral sclerosis (commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease). Regeneron Pharlnaceuticals, Inc., based in Tarrytown, New York, is a leader in the discovery and development of biotechnology-based compounds for the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, peripheral neuropathies and nerve injuries, which affect more than seven million Americans. Drs. LaVail and Steinberg of UCSF are consultants to Regeneron. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 19 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 Affluent Diet Increases Risk Of Heart Disease Research Resources Reporter written by Mary Weideman Nov/Dec 1992 National Institutes of Health High-fat, high-calorie diets rapidly increase risk factors for coronary heart disease in native populations of developing countries that have traditionally consumed diets low in fat. These findings, according to investigators at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland, have serious implications for public health in both industrialized and developing countries. ""This study demonstrates why we can develop coronary heart disease and have higher blood cholesterol and triglyceride levels. It shows also the importance of diet and particularly the potential of the diet to increase body weight, thereby leading to a whole host of other health problems in developing countries and affluent nations as well,"" explains principal investigator Dr. William E. Connor, head of the section of clinical nutrition and lipid metabolism at Oregon Health Sciences University. Over the past 25 years Dr. Connor and his team have characterized the food and nutrient intakes of the Tara humara Indians in Mexico, while simultaneously documenting various aspects of Tarahumara lipid metabolism. These native Mexicans number approximately 50,000 and reside in the Sierra Madre Occidental Mountains in the state of Chihuahua. The Tarahumaras have coupled an agrarian diet to endurance racing. Probably as a result, coronary heart disease, which is so prevalent in Western industrialized nations, is virtually non existent in their culture. Loosely translated, the name Tarahumara means ""fleet of foot,"" reflecting a tribal passion for betting on ""kickball"" races, in which participants run distances of 100 miles or more while kicking a machete-carved wooden ball. The typical Tarahumara diet consists primarily of pinto beans, tortillas, and pinole, a drink made of ground roasted corn mixed with cold water, together with squash and gath ered fruits and vegetables. The Tara humaras also eat small amounts of game, fish, and eggs. Their food contains approximately 12 percent of total calories as fat of which the majority (69 percent) is of vegetable origin. Dietician Martha McMurry, a coinvestigator in the study, describes their diet as simple and very rich in nutrients while low in cholesterol and fat. The Tarahumaras have average plasma cholesterol levels of 121 mg/ dL, low-density lipoprotein (LDL)-cholesterol levels of 72 mg/dl, and high-density lipoprotein (HDL)-cholesterol levels of 32 to 42 mg/dl. All of those values are in the good, low-risk range, according to the researchers. Elevated cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol levels are considered risk factors for heart HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 20 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 disease. HDL-cholesterol is considered beneficial. In previous studies the Tarahumaras had been found to be at low risk for cardiac disease, although able to respond to high-cholesterol diets with elevations in total and LDL- cholesterol. Clinical Research Center dietitian McMurry and coinvestigator Maria Teresa Cerqueira established a metabolic unit in a Jesuit mission school building near a community hospital in the small village of Sisoguichi. Food was weighed, cooked, and fed to the study participants under the investigators' direct supervision, ensuring that subjects ate only food stipulated by the research protocol. Fasting blood was drawn twice weekly, and plasma samples were frozen and shipped to Dr. Connors laboratory for cholesterol, triglyceride, and lipoprotein analyses. Regular measurements included participant body weight, height, and triceps skin fold thickness. Thirteen Tarahumaras, five women and eight men, including one adolescent, were fed their native diet for 1 week, followed by 5 weeks of an ""affluent"" diet. ""In this study we went up to a concentration of dietary fat that was 40 percent of total calories. This is the prototype of the holiday diet that many Americans consume a diet high in fat, sugar, and cholesterol, low in fiber,"" elaborates Dr. Conners. Such dietary characteristics are reflected in the cholesterol-saturation index, or CSI, recently devised research dietitian Sonja Conner working with Dr. Connor. ""The CSI is a single number that incorporates both the amount of cholesterol and the amount of saturated fat in the diet. CSI indicates the diet's potential to elevate the cholesterol level, particularly the LDL,"" Dr. Connor explains. The Tarahumaran diet averages a very low CSI of 20; Dr. Connor's ""affluent"" diet used in the study ranks a CSI of 149. The experimental design of this study reflects the importance of establishing baseline plasma lipid levels, typical of the native diet, before exposing subjects to the experimental diet. The standard curve relating dietary food intake to plasma cholesterol demonstrates a leveling off, or plateau, for consumption of large amounts of fat. Changes in dietary fat and/or cholesterol in this range have little effect on plasma levels. ""You must have the baseline diet almost free of the variables you are going to put into the experimental diet. The Framingham study, for example, did not discriminate on the basis of diet between individuals who got heart disease because the diet was already high in fat. All subjects were already eating on a plateau,"" Dr. Connor says. After 5 weeks of consuming the ""affluent"" diet, the subjects' mean plasma cholesterol levels had in creased by 31 percent, primarily in the LDL fraction, which rose 39 percent. HDL-cholesterol increased by 31 per cent, and LDL to HDL ratios changed therefore very little. Plasma triglyceride levels increased by 18 percent, and subjects averaged an 8-pound gain in weight. According to Dr. Connor, lipid changes occurred surprisingly soon, yielding nearly the same results after 7 days of affluent diet as after 35 days. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 21 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 The increase in HDL carries broad dietary implications for industrialized nations. ""We think HDL-cholesterol increased because we increased the amount of dietary fat over the fat content used in the previous Tarahumara metabolic study. In that study we saw no change in HDL levels after raising the dietary cholesterol but keeping the fat relatively consistent with native consumption. In the present study we increased fat intake to 40 percent of the total calories. We reached the conclusion in the Tarahumara study that HDL reflects the amount of dietary fat in general and not the amount of dietary cholesterol. HDL must increase to help metabolize the fat, and it increased quite a bit in this study,"" Dr. Connor explains. Low HDL in the Tarahumarans is not typically an important predictor of coronary heart disease because they do not normally consume large amounts of fat or cholesterol. HDL remains an important predictor to Americans because of their usual high fat intake. Dr. Connor recommends a diet for Americans that contains less than 20 percent of total calories as fat, less than 100 mg of cholesterol, and a CSI around 20, varying in accordance with caloric needs. Such a diet is low in meat and dairy fat, high in fiber. Dr. Connor also comments on recent suggestions that Americans adopt a ""Mediterranean-style"" diet. ""The original Mediterranean diet, in its pristine state, consisted of a very low intake of fat and very few animal and dairy products. We are already eating a lot of meat and dairy products. Simply to continue that pattern while switching to olive oil is not going to help the situation."" The World Health Organization (WHO) is focusing much attention on the emergence of diseases such as coronary heart disease in nations and societies undergoing technological development. Dr. Connor says that coronary heart disease starts with a given society's elite, who typically eat a different diet than the average citizen. ""If the pattern of afluence increases, the entire population will have have a higher incidence of coronary heart disease, which places a termendous health care burden on a society. WHO would like the developing countries to prevent coronary heart disease, so they can concentrate on other aspects of their economic development and on public health measures to improve general well-being, rather than paying for unnecessary, expensive medical technology,"" Dr. Connors says. ""The overall implication of this study is that humans can readily move their plasma lipids and lipoprotein values into a high-risk range within a very short time by an affluent, excessive diet. The present rate of coronary heart disease in the United States is 30 percent less than it was 20 years ago, so a lot has been accomplished. We are changing rapidly,"" he concludes. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 22 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: General Announcments :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Publications for Health Professionals Available from NCI (1/93) Unless otherwise noted, the following materials are provided free of charge by calling the NCI's Publication Ordering Service, 1-800-4-CANCER. Because Federal Government publications are not subject to copyright restriction, you are free to photocopy NCI material. GENERAL INFORMATION ANTICANCER DRUG INFORMATION SHEETS IN SPANISH/ENGLISH. Two- sided fact sheets (in English and Spanish) provide information about side effects of common drugs used to treat cancer, their proper usage, and precautions for patients. The fact sheets were prepared by the United States Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., for distribution by the National Cancer Institute. Single sets only may be ordered. CANCER RATES AND RISKS, 3RD EDITION (85-691). This book is a compact guide to statistics, risk factors, and risks for major cancer sites. It includes charts and graphs showing incidence, mortality, and survival worldwide and in the United States. It also contains a section on the costs of cancer. 136 pages. DIET, NUTRITION & CANCER PREVENTION: A GUIDE TO FOOD CHOICES (87-2778). This booklet describes what is now known about diet, nutrition, and cancer prevention. It provides information about foods that contain components like fiber, fat, and vitamins that may affect a person's risk of getting certain cancers. It suggests ways to use that information to select from a broad variety of foods--choosing more of some foods and less of others. Includes recipes and sample menus. 39 pages. NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE FACT BOOK. This book presents general information about the National Cancer Institute including budget data, grants and contracts, and historical information. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 23 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE GRANTS PROCESS (91-1222) (Revised 3/90). This booklet describes general NCI grant award procedures; includes chapters on eligibility, preparation of grant application, peer review, eligible costs, and post- award activities. 62 pages. PHYSICIAN TO PHYSICIAN: PERSPECTIVE ON CLINICAL TRIALS. This 15-minute videocassette discusses why and how to enter patients on clinical trials. It was produced in collaboration with the American College of Surgeons Commission on Cancer. STUDENTS WITH CANCER: A RESOURCE FOR THE EDUCATOR (91-2086). (Revised 4/87) This booklet is designed for teachers who have students with cancer in their classrooms or schools. It includes an explanation of cancer, its treatment and effects, and guidelines for the young person's re-entry to school and for dealing with terminally ill students. Bibliographies are included for both educators and young people. 22 pages. UNDERSTANDING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM (92-529). This booklet describes the complex network of specialized cells and organs that make up the human immune system. It explains how the system works to fight off disease caused by invading agents such as bacteria and viruses, and how it sometimes malfunctions, resulting in a variety of diseases from allergies, to arthritis, to cancer. It was developed by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and printed by the National Cancer Institute. This booklet presents college level instruction in immunology. It is appropriate for nursing or pharmacology students and for persons receiving college training in other areas within the health professions. 36 pages. MATERIALS TO HELP STOP TOBACCO USE CHEW OR SNUFF EDUCATOR PACKAGE (91-2976). Each package contains: Ten copies of CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF, a brochure designed for seventh and eighth graders that describes the health and social effects of using HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 24 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 smokeless tobacco products. When fully opened, the brochure can be used as a poster. One copy of CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF: A GUIDE TO MAKE YOUNG PEOPLE AWARE OF THE DANGERS OF USING SMOKELESS TOBACCO. This booklet is a lesson plan for teachers. It contains facts about smokeless tobacco, suggested classroom activities, and selected educational resources. HOW TO HELP YOUR PATIENTS STOP SMOKING: A NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE MANUAL FOR PHYSICIANS (92-3064). This is a step- by-step handbook for instituting smoking cessation techniques in medical practices. The manual, with resource lists and tear-out materials, is based on the results of NCI clinical trials. 75 pages. HOW TO HELP YOUR PATIENTS STOP USING TOBACCO: A NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE MANUAL FOR THE ORAL HEALTH TEAM (91-3191). This is a handbook for dentists, dental hygienists, and dental assistants. It complements the physicians' manual and includes additional information on smoking prevention and on smokeless tobacco use. 58 pages. PHARMACISTS HELPING SMOKERS QUIT KIT. A packet of materials to help pharmacists encourage their smoking patients to quit. Contains a pharmacist's guide and self-help materials for 25 patients. SCHOOL PROGRAMS TO PREVENT SMOKING: THE NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE GUIDE TO STRATEGIES THAT SUCCEED (90-500). This guide outlines eight essential elements of a successful school-based smoking prevention program based on NCI research. It includes a list of available curriculum resources and selected references. 24 pages. SELF-GUIDED STRATEGIES FOR SMOKING CESSATION: A PROGRAM PLANNER'S GUIDE (91-3104). This booklet outlines key characteristics of successful self-help materials and programs based on NCI collaborative research. It lists additional resources and references. 36 pages. SMOKING POLICY: QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. These ten fact sheets HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 25 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 provide basic information about the establishment of worksite smoking policies. Topics range from the health effects of environmental tobacco smoke to legal issues concerning policy implementation. STRATEGIES TO CONTROL TOBACCO USE IN THE UNITED STATES: A BLUEPRINT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH ACTION IN THE 1990s (92-3316: Smoking and Control Monograph No. 1). This volume provides a summary of what has been learned from 40 years of a public health effort against smoking, from the early trial-and- error health information campaigns of the 1960s to the NCI's science-based project, American Stop Smoking Intervention Study for Cancer Prevention, which began in 1991. It offers reasons why comprehensive smoking control strategies are now needed to address the smoker's total environment and to reduce smoking prevalence significantly over the next decade. MATERIALS FOR OUTREACH PROGRAMS CANCER PREVENTION AND EARLY DETECTION: COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAMS FOR HEALTH PROFESSIONALS Three kits are available for community program planners and health professionals to set up local cancer prevention and early detection education projects: DO THE RIGHT THING. . . GET A NEW ATTITUDE ABOUT CANCER COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAM. This community outreach kit targets Black American audiences. It contains materials to help health professionals conduct community education programs for black audiences. The kit emphasizes the early detection of breast cancer by mammography and of cervical cancer by the Pap test. It also discusses smoking and nutrition. The kit includes helpful program guidance, facts, news articles, visuals, and brochures. HAGALO HOY COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAM. This community outreach kit targets Hispanic audiences. It contains bilingual and Spanish language materials to help health professionals conduct community education programs. The materials educate Hispanic audiences about early detection of breast cancer by mammography HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 26 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 and of cervical cancer by Pap tests. The kit also discusses smoking and related issues. The kit includes helpful guidance, facts, news articles, visuals and brochures. ONCE A YEAR..FOR A LIFETIME COMMUNITY OUTREACH MAMMOGRAPHY PROGRAM. This community outreach kit targets all women age 40 or over. It supplies community program planners and health professionals with planning guidance, facts about mammography, news articles, visuals and brochures. MAKING HEALTH COMMUNICATION PROGRAMS WORK: A PLANNER'S GUIDE (92-1493). This handbook presents key principles and steps in developing and evaluating health communications programs for the public, patients, and health professionals. It expands upon and replaces ""Pretesting in Health Communications"" and ""Making PSAs Work."" 131 pages. SUPPORT MATERIAL FOR COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAMS The video and slide presentations listed below support the mammography outreach programs. ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME VIDEOTAPE. This 5-minute VHS videotape uses a dramatic format to highlight the important facts about the early detection of breast cancer by mammography. UNA VEZ AL ANO...PARA TODA UNA VIDA VIDEOTAPE. This 27- minute Spanish videotape informs Spanish-speaking women of the need for medical screening, particularly mammography. It explains commonly misunderstood facts about breast cancer and early detection. The program, in a dramatic format, features Edward James Olmos and Cristina Saralegui. ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME SPEAKER'S KIT (SLIDE SHOW). This kit includes 66 full-color slides and a number- coded, ready-to-read script suitable for a mammography presentation to a large group. It addresses the misconceptions prevalent about mammography and urges women age 40 and older to get regular mammograms so that breast cancer can be detected as early as possible. Kit HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 27 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 includes a guide, poster, media announcement, news feature, flyer, and pamphlets on mammography. This kit is available directly by writing to: Modern, 5000 Park Street North, St. Petersburg, FL 33709-9989. --------- end of part 2 ------------ --- Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165 Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15 Amateur Packet ax25: wb7tpy@wb7tpy.az.usa.na ",13 "Re: Date is stuck With your date/time problems, you MIGHT have a problem with the Dallas Clock Chip (I'm making a possibly bad assumption that your system has a clock chip and that it's the standard Dallas Clock Chip). I always look at the battery and the clock chip when such things go wrong-- at least, as the first course of action. Mel. White/Data Services/City of Garland, Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------- Mel. White Two Ravens BBS 1-214-618-9578 ASP Member BBS / Fidonet:1:124/6504 Your Window To The World! MBAS:listserv@tworaven.lonestar.org ",3 "Re: Riddle me this... In article <1993Apr20.050550.4660@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>, j979@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (FULLER M) writes: > Yet, the FBI mouthpiece at this afternoon's press conference characterized > the quantity of CS gas pumped into the building as ""massive"", and speculated > that after a few hours of exposure any Davidian gas masks would become > useless. > > Does this sound ""not harmful"" to you? Hm. A previous poster argued that the fact that the BD's did not rush to escape the burning building indicated that it was they, and not any of the government actions, that started the fire. On the other hand, I wonder if, with a face full of ""massive amounts of CS,"" *I* would be able to escape a burning tinder-box like that ranch house assuming my best efforts. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Re: What did Lazarus smell like? In the discussion as to why Jesus spoke aloud the ""Lazarus, come out"", I'm surprised that no one has noticed the verse immediately preceeding. Jn 12:41 ""Father, I thank you for listening to me, though I knew that you always listen to me. But I have said this for the sake of the people that are standing around me that they may believe that you have made my your messenger."" (Goodspeed translation) My guess is that the ""Lazarus, come out!"" was also for the sake of the crowd. -- --- Tim Rolfe rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu rolfe@junior.dsu.edu RolfeT@columbia.dsu.edu ",15 "Stereo Equipment, Speakers for sale Keywords: Polk Sansui Akai Stereo FOR SALE: Polk RTA 12 speakers Sansui 4900Z - 60 watt Rx Akai CSM 40 RM $500 or best offer. A friend asked me to post this for him. If you are interested or want more information, call him; do not reply to me. Thanks. Call Carl 609 466-9490 Leave a message if he is not there. ",6 "Re: DC-X and publicity... is there any ? In article <1993May11.200419.13494@bmerh85.bnr.ca> rivan@bnr.ca writes: > Its seems a bit scarry to me that such a project which for the first >time in years promisses some hope in changing the current trend in >massively overpriced boosting capability, lacks much publicity. That may change next month; at least I hope it will. A couple of hundred journalists have requested press passes for the test flights. Sustaining that publicity however, will be a problem. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lady Astor: ""Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your coffee!"" | | W. Churchill: ""Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."" | +----------------------33 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ",14 "waiting for a specific event/callback Hello world, I want to write my Xt-application code like this: { do_some_work(); /* now I need some user input */ XmCreateDialog(); wait_for_user_input(input); if (input == ""OK"") { more_work(); } else { other_work(); } } So ""more_work() and other_work()"" are not in callback functions but the application simply waits for the user to answer the question. How can I code this in my Xt/Motif-application? Thanks very much in advance. Greetings, Huub. -- CWI, P.O. Box 4079 Huub Bakker (huub@cwi.nl) 1009 AB Amsterdam The Netherlands Tel. 31 20 5924080 ",5 "Re: Anyone know use ""rayshade"" out there? fineman@stein2.u.washington.edu (Twixt your toes) writes: | I'm using ""rayshade"" on the u.w. computers here, and i'd like input | from other users, and perhaps swap some ideas. I could post | uuencoded .gifs here, or .ray code, if anyone's interested. I'm having | trouble coming up with colors that are metallic (i.e. brass, steel) | from the RGB values. Sorry, I'm not a rayshade user - but hey, it looks like this group could use some traffic. My guess is that ""metallic"" isn't a color, in the RGB sense. Rather, it's a matter of how the surface reflects light. I'm not sure what property metallic materials have, that makes them recognizable as such, but I'm pretty sure any color material can look metallic. ",1 "Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu? In article <1993Apr14.222601.21160@cabell.vcu.edu> csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes: > >After reading my local paper today, I found out that the Phillies >started the 1964 season at 10-2. I am not as old as 1964, but I've >heard many talk about the serious choke job the Phillies did that >season. They were ahead of the Cardinals by 15 games that season in >mid-August. They managed to lose a bunch from then on and the >Cardinals took the division. 15!!! games ahead and lost it.... I >hope this season is MUCH different. Strictly from memory, I think the Phillies were something like ten games up with 12 to go, lost 10 in a row, and 11 of last 12 to lose to the Cardinals. Seems impossible, but thats how I remember it. I also felt at the time that Johnny Callison of the Phillies lost the MVP as a by-product of their swoon. jerry P.S. In 1964, a single team out of 8 won the pennant; no divisions. ",9 "Re: arcade style buttons and joysticks dnewman@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (David F. Newman) writes: > Hi there, > Can anyone tell me where it is possible to purchase controls found > on most arcade style games. Many projects I am working on would > be greatly augmented if I could implement them. Thanx in advance. > > -Dave > dnewman@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu > Contact Chris Arthur at Chris_Arthur@pennies.stratus.com He restores lots of old video and arcade games and knows where to get parts. Tony ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Anthony S. Pelliccio, kd1nr/ae // Yes, you read it right, the // -- system @ garlic.sbs.com // man who went from No-Code // -----------------------------------// (Thhhppptt!) to Extra in // -- Flame Retardent Sysadmin // exactly one year! // ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This is a calm .sig! -- -------------------------- ",12 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.201450.8748@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (some caifone) writes: >> I certainly hope you don't have an SO, sir, >What is ""SO"" supposed to signify? I prefer the companionship of a >person, not a euphemism. Oh, do please try not to be ludicrous. SO=Significant Other, a term I employed to avoid the awkward construction ""girlfriend or wife"". >> because if she heard >Thankfully, you got the gender right. For I am not a deviant. A ""deviant"" is someone who does not fit an ""accepted norm."" By that definition, I would certainly be a deviant, as bisexuality is not an accepted norm in American society so far. This term, of course, really has no negative aspects inherent in its denotation. I presume you intended it as a term of abuse. It's a great pity you feel such tactics to be necessary, but hardly surprising since you have no factual basis for your absurd beliefs. >> how disparaging you are towards political minorities, >Sexual deviants do not comprise a ""political minorit[y]"". May I attempt to emulate your style of discourse with a term of abuse? Ahem...You addle-pated jellyfish! The post to which I responded was a highly amusing one in which you belittled homosexuals for having no political clout. I would be further amused if you would explain to me why having no political clout and constituting a political minority are different. >> and if she had any shred of self-respect, she'd be out the door. >I only associate with girls who do indeed have self-respect. But were And yet you call them ""girls!"" The feminists would be up in arms. >I to find myself with the sort who would be inclined to head out the >door on account of my views regarding the aberrant behavior known as >""homosexuality"", I would encourage her to indeed do so, and I would >further advise her not to let the door whack her on the backside on >the way out. Who needs such an airhead? Cough, cough. Well, well, you certainly are a fine, upstanding fellow, you are, sir. And like many ""fine, upstanding fellows,"" you have the reading comprehension of a dyslexic anteater. Perhaps I should have been more explicit in pointing out that females constitute a political minority in this country when last I checked, and that your obvious lack of respect for these minorities equates to a lack of respect for women. That is, of course, a conceptual stretch of logic, but given your slow uptake as de monstrated so far, I figure we should start simple and work up. Don't worry, you'll get it ! >>> Pretty soon they will find themselves retreating back into the closet >>> where they belong. >> Don't count on it, sweetheart. >Oh, I can't do anything _BUT_ count on it. After all, it is >inevitable, for it is part of the natural order of things. Throughout >history, nature has always asserted itself. Don't be so arrogant as This is very true, this bit about nature asserting itself. Homosexuality has always been a part of human society, and always will be, for that is the natural order. If you're naive enough to believe otherwise, go right ahead; we'll try not to snicker too loudly behind your back. ""Inevitable."" Chortle. Anyone would think you had some idea what you were talking about. I haven't seen fact one from you, and until I do you can just dispense with the bullshit, and tell us what we already know, that you're a clueless little slime mold with no concept of reality beyond The Donna Reed Show. Live a little, and then come back and tell us all about the ""natural order of things."" You're in a bubble, and it's really going to rock your world when you come out. >to assume that this foolish and misguided generation can change the >nature of man where practically every other generation has failed. ""Foolish and misguided."" Oh, this is too much. So which religious figure do YOU believe you are? And how do you know so much about the nature of man? You're almost too amusing to be worth the effort of crushing your pealike brain. >Greater men than you haven't been able to do this. The above _MOST_ >_CERTAINLY_ _WILL_ happen, no matter how much you may wish to pretend >otherwise. Gee, you sound awfully sure of yourself. ""Methinks the bigot doth protest too much."" Admit it: you're scared shitless that what you've been spoonfed all your sorry little life was wrong, and you're trying to escape that fear by a blind faith that you know, deep down, is based in nothing, nothing at all. Go ahead, clutch your unfounded declaratives to your empty breast; ignore the myriad of societies that have accepted homosexuality as equally valid or even mystical. Ignore the solid, inescapable fact t hat we've existed as long as humans have. Fear us. Go ahead. Laugh at us if it makes you feel better. We both know you're just whistling in the dark. There's one group that's stamped out whenever it appears, in any form, and that's the group of boneheads who fancy themselves morally superior. You're in that group, and you're slowly and steadily being stamped out. Preach while you can, little man...it won't be long. >Moreover, I'm not your ""sweetheart"". That's the first truth you've told so far. I don't hate hets, sir. I'm bisexual, and I embrace man- and womankind alike. I have nothing against those who don't understand my love. But you deny its potency and validity. You would crush us all, human beings to a one, in your imagined divinity. It's fools like you that stir my ire...idiots with the small minds, who can't think for themselves, who know nothing about how the real world operates, and who hate because they are told what to do and do it like sheep, who hate everyone who refuses to be a sheep. You're not part of the norm. You're part of a minority--YES, a minority!--with supreme, o'erweening arrogance. Your hubris will topple, because it always has, because those with intelligence know it to be a clown's costume. Wow, that was pretentious! I sometimes wonder why I waste my talents on zeroes like you. I really have no interest in continuing this effortless discussion; after all, this is for me the proverbial battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Come back with some swords--i.e. facts--and we shall do battle. Till then, begone from my sight. Drewcifer P.S. You were very entertaining, however. Have you considered taking this on the road? I hear escapism is back in. ",18 "NuTek Email? Does NuTek (or anyone at NuTek) have an email address? If not, why not? =) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Good Things: Books by Robert Heinlein, Music by Enya, Computers by Apple, Humor by Dave Barry, Thursday nights on NBC, and Scotland. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Scot Salmon (scot@jlc.mv.com) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ",4 "Re: FJ1100/1200 Owners: Tankbag Suggestions Wanted martenm@chess.ncsu.edu (Mark Marten) writes: >I am looking for a new tank bag now, and I wondered if you, as follow >FJ1100/1200 owners, could make some suggestions as to what has, and has >not worked for you. If there is already a file on this I apologize for >asking and will gladly accept any flames that are blown my way! I've got a Belstaff tankbag on my FJ1100, and it ain't too good. It's difficult to fix it securely cos of the the tank/fairing/sidepanel layout, and also with the bars on full lock the bag touches the handlebar switches, so you get the horn on full left lock and the starter motor on full right!! If I was buying another I think I'd go for a magnetic one. ",8 "U.S. Space Foundation Speech Speech by Pete Worden Delivered Before the U.S. Space Foundation Conference Colorado Springs, Colorado April 15, 1993 What a delightful opportunity to cause some trouble. For providing me this forum I would sincerely like to thank the U.S. Space Foundation. My topic today is the Single Stage Rocket Technology rocket or SSRT. By I intend to speak of more. How to lower the cost and make rapid progress. SSRT is to my mind -- and I hope to convince you -- the erupting a new rallying cry for our generation in space -- Faster, Cheaper, and Better. Faster, Cheaper, Better and SSRT represent the passing of a torch from one technical generation to another. It is a new thing to be sure -- but it is also a relearning of old things from past masters. When we rolled out the SSRT baby two weeks ago, so called experts told us it violates the laws of physics -- it made no sense. For example, Dr. Eberhart Rachtin - former president of the Aerospace Corp., said of SSRT in the L.A. Times that it, ""defies the best principles of launching payloads into space."" Well Dr. Rachtin -- you've made us mad! What are these principles that SSRT defies? Well I'll tell you. It violates the principle that you need a giant program office to build space hardware. It violates the ""fact"" that it takes 20 years to build something new. And it violates the truism that you cant do anything significant for less than many billions of dollars. It took some of the last generation's experts to teach us some new/old lessons. Werhner Von Braun's first rocket was not a Saturn V. General Schriever's ICBM's didn't take ten years to demonstrate. And the X-1 airplane didn't cost $1 billion. It took one of the great engineers of the 1950's to remind us of these truths -- Max Hunter. Max, to remind you, was a senior engineer in the Thor IRBM program, and old faster, better, cheaper success story. Max has been persistent in a vision of a single stage reusable space launch system since the 1960's. Because he knew it had to be done in affordable steps - Build a little, Test a little. Next he persuaded us to do a technology demonstration. We didn't solicit a bunch of requirements -- they'd just change every few years anyway. [ not included in the speech -- The ALS/NLS has such ephemeral requirements that it would better known as ""Shape Shifter"" than ""Space Lifter."" We didn't spend a lot money -- this X-Rocket only cost $60 million. When's the last time we even built a new airplane for that? And it didn't take a lot of time to build -- McDonnell Douglas completed it in 18 months. Finally, the government program office consisted of one very over-worked Air Force Major -- motivated in part by the threat that he'd get to ride on it in a strapped-on lawn chair if it ran over cost or schedule. As I described what SSRT is -- and isn't keep in mind its only a first step. There are several more steps -- and steps that can easily fail -- before the U.S. can field an SSTO. But each step should follow the same principles -- a small management team -- a few years technology demonstration -- and a modest budget. Let me show a few details on SSRT and how it might evolve: (See charts) I'm embarrassed when my generation is compared with the last generation -- the giants of the last great space era, the 1950's and 1960's. They went to the moon - we built a telescope that can't see straight. They soft-landed on Mars - the least we could do is soft-land on Earth! But we do have an answer. We can follow their build a little, test a little philosophy to produce a truly affordable and routine access to space. I know there are nay sayers among you -- those who say SSRT is a stunt. It needs more thermal protection, the engines are wrong, it would be better to land horizontally, etc, etc. I say to you -- we'll see you at White Sands in June. You bring your view-graphs, and I'll bring my rocketship. If we do what we say we can do, then you let us do the next step. [ not included in the speech: If we fail -- you still have your program offices, staff summary sheets, requirement analyses, and decade long programs.] I bet on my generation and Max Hunter's idea -- Any Takers? ",14 "Re: Two Beemer Questions (R80GS) In article <1993Apr23.224045.22287@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> asphaug@lpl.arizona.edu (Erik Asphaug x2773) writes: >Hello Folks, > >I'm very happy with my ""new"" R80GS. My range is 238 miles on 4.8 gallons... >that's 50 mpg!! Surprisingly, the bike is a real cruiser. I was expecting >something rough. She's a sweet backroad honey. And I can go pretty much >anyplace I'd take my mountain bike. As far as shaft effect, it's more a >torque effect from the crankshaft in my opinion. Rev it sitting still >(when the driveshaft is not moving) and the bike twists a bit. Maybe If the clutch is in, then a large chunk of counter-rotating mass is not rotating. Hence, at a light, reving makes it twist. Shaft effect is the rear end rising under power or (the real problem) getting lower to the road when the throttle is snapped shut (say when you are cornering and the heads are real close to the road). New GS bikes with the paralever shaft have almost no shaft effect. >I don't ride her fast enough to get a shaft effect, but in my opinion >a little buffeting by wind is of far greater consequence. Okay, here are >my questions: > >1) Any recommendations for a home-made fairing? I'd like to keep the >wind off my chest, and perhaps my helmet, for comfort at highway speeds >(70 mph), yet don't want to (a) screw up the stability or (b) block my >vision too much for trail riding. Anybody have luck with two-piece >detachible fairings? I'd like to make it myself out of plexiglas. >2) I run two lights, the standard headlamp plus a sidelamp mounted on the >crash bar. The illumination's excellent that way, with a full beam coming >out from the level of the motor (left side); the lamp beam is linear so >that you get a bright streak of illumination from left to right, and it >really picks up the periphery (deer lurking, etc.) Combined with the >headlamp on high you can see like day. But I've heard that BMW alternators >don't crank out too much. Do I need to shut down the sidelamp when I'm >puttering around in the dirt at low RPM? It's a question of how long you spend at low RPM and how much you need the extra light. At low RPM, 3K and under, they don't charge all that much if at all. The alternators put out sufficient wattage, it just that you need to be at 4K RPM to get it. >3) This is embarassing: I'm having trouble starting the bike first thing >in the morning. I invariably flood the carbs, then go in and read a section >of the paper, and then she starts right up. Is this a Zen thing? Full choke. Open the gas taps. Hit the starter and ever so slightly blip the throttle. It should fire. Cranking should be done with minimal throttle. My R100 likes the throttles to be raised just a bit off idle. It's an EXPERIENCE thing. Like Zen, it's hard to describe. It can be hard to learn if you aren't paying atttention to the differences between success and failure. Especially if you get really pissed off and flatten the battery while trying to get it to run. If my bike has been sitting for a few weeks, I give it a short while to start. If it doesn't, I turn it off and wait a few minutes for things to vaporize in the fuel system and then it lights right off. I've got dual plugs which make it easier to start. >4) The Hayne's manual says do not under any circumstances use gasoline >with alcohol additives... Yeah, right. What do you folks due to keep >the engine and carbs from being eaten by ethanol and methanol? Any >particular brands of gas that are best? Additives? The BIG fix is the Bing carb upgrade kit. It's good for a few MPG and the parts are alcohol proof. The parts it replaces aren't alcohol proof. As long as the bike isn't going to sit for long periods of time, gasohol is nice since it helps keep ping away. If your bike doesn't ping on cheap gas you ought to raise the compression! (Half a smiley, the BMW twins of the 80s and beyond have lowered compression to keep the EPA happy. Dual plugs and higher compression give back a big chunk of the lost perfomance). Neil Kirby DoD #0783 nak@archie.cbusa.att.com AT&T Bell Labs Columbus OH USA (614) 860-5304 If you think I speak for AT&T you might have more lawyers than sense. ",8 "Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!! jsn104 is jeremy scott noonan ",0 "ARSENOKOITAI: Scroggs (#3) [cont. Dr. James DeYoung; #3] R. Scroggs Robin Scroggs has built upon the discussion of his predecessors and suggested a new twist to the word. Scroggs believes that arsenokoitai is a ""Hellenistic Jewish coinage, perhaps influenced by awareness of rabbinic terminology."" The term is derived from Lev 18""22 & 20:13 where the LXX juxtaposes the two words arsenos (""male"") and koiten (""bed""), and represents the Hebrew miskab zabar (""lying with a male""). Yet he believes that Paul did not originate the term, but borrowed it from ""circles of Hellenistic Jews acquainted with rabbinic discussions"" (180 n.14). It was invented to avoid ""contact with the usual Greek terminology"" (108). If this is true, Scroggs observes, it explains why the word does not appear in Greco-Roman discussions of pederasty and why later patristic writers avoided it. It was meaningless to native-speaking Greeks (108). Scroggs takes the second part as the active word and the first word as the object of the second part, thus differing from Boswell's ""learned discussion"" (107). Yet Scroggs understands the general meaning of ""one who lies with a male"" to have a very narrow reference. With the preceding malokoi (I Cor 6:9), which Scroggs interprets as ""the effeminate call-boy,"" arsenokoitai is the active partner ""who keeps the malakos of the 'mistress' or who hires him on occasion to satisfy his sexual desires"" (108). Hence arsenokoitai does not refer to homosexuality in general, to female homosexuality, or to the generic model of pederasty. It certainly cannot refer to the modern gay model, he affirms (109). This is Scrogg's interpretation of the term in I Tim 1:10 also. The combination of pornoi (""fornicators""), arsenokoitai and andrapodistai (""slave dealers"") refers to ""male prostitutes, males who lie [with them], and slave dealers [who procure them]"" (120). It again refers to that specific form of pederasty ""which consisted of the enslaving of boys as youths for sexual purposes, and the use of these boys by adult males"" (121). Even ""serious minded pagan authors"" condemned this form of pederasty. He then uses these instances of arsenokoitai in I Cor and I Tim to interpret the apparently general condemnation of both female and male homosexuality in Rom 1. Consequently Paul ""Must have had, could only have had pederasty in mind"" (122). We cannot know what Paul would have said about the ""contemporary model of adult/adult mutuality in same sex relation ships"" (122). In relating these terms to the context and to contemporary ethical concerns, Scroggs emphasizes the point that the specific items in the list of vices in I Cor 6 have no deliberate, intended meaning in Paul. The form and function of the catalogue of vices are traditional and stereotyped. Any relationship between an individual item in the list and the context was usually nonexistent. He concludes that Paul ""does not care about any specific item in the lists"" (104). Both on the basis of the meaning of the terms and of the literary phenomenon of a ""catalogue of vices,"" Scroggs argues that the Scriptures are ""irrelevant and provide no help in the heated debate today"" (129). The ""model in today's Christian homosexual community is so different from the model attacked by the NT"" that ""Biblical judgments against homosexuality are not relevant to today's debate. They should no longer be used in denominational discussions about homosexuality, should in no way be a weapon to justify refusal of ordination. . . "" (127). REACTIONS TO THE NEW INTERPRETATIONS OF ARSENOKOITAI D. Wright In more recent years the positions of Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs have come under closer scrutiny. Perhaps the most critical evaluation of Boswell's view is that by David Wright. In his thorough article, Wright points out several shortcomings of Boswell's treatment of arsenokoitai. He faults Boswell for failing to cite, or citing inaccurately, all the references to Lev 18:22 and 20:13 in the church fathers, such as Eusebius, the ""Apostolic Constitutions,"" Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian and Origen (127-28). Boswell has not considered seriously enough the possibility that the term derives either its form or its meaning from the Leviticus passages (129). This is significant, for if the term is so derived, it clearly refutes Boswell's claim that the first half of the word (arseno-) denotes not the object but the gender of the second half (-koitai). The LXX must mean ""a male who sleeps with a male,"" making arseno- the object. Wright also faults Boswell's claims regarding linguistic features of the term, including suggested parallels (129). Though Boswell claims that compounds with arseno- employ it objectively and those with arreno- employ it as an adjective, Wright believes that the difference between the two is merely one of dialectical diversity: ""No semantic import attaches to the difference between the two forms"" (131). Wright believes that in most compounds in which the second half is a verb or has a verbal force, the first half denotes its object and where ""the second part is substantival, the first half denotes its gender"" (132). It is with Boswell's treatment of the early church fathers that Wright takes special issue, because the former has failed to cite all the sources. For example, Aristides' Apology (c. AD 138) probably uses arrenomaneis, androbaten, and arsenokoitias all with the same basic meaning of male homosexuality (133), contrary to Boswell's discussion. Boswell fails to cite Hippolytus (Refut. Omn. Haer. 5:26:22-23) and improperly cites Eusebius and the Syriac writer Bardensanes. The latter uses Syriac terms that are identical to the Syriac of I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10 (133-34). Next Wright shows how the early church fathers use arsenokoitai in parallel with paidophthoria referring to male homosexuality with teenagers, the dominant form of male homosexuality among the Greeks (134). Sometimes this parallelism occurs in the threefold listings of moicheia (""adultery""), porneia (""fornication""), and paidophthoria, with arsenokoitai replacing paidophthoris (136). Clement of Alexandria in Protr. 10:108:5 cites the second table of the Ten Commandments as ""You shall not kill, ou moicheuseis (""you shall not commit adultery""), ou paidophthoreseis (""you shall not practice homosexuality with boys""), you shall not steal. . ."" (150 n. 43). Another occurrence of arsenokoitein (""commit homosexuality"") exists in the Sibylline Oracles 2:71-73. It may be, Wright observes, that the word was coined by a Jewish pre-Christian writer in a Hellenistic setting represented by Or.Sib., book 2 (137-38). Wright also discusses uses of arsenokoitai in Rhetorius (6th c.) who drew upon the first century AD writer Teucer, in Macarius (4th-5th c.), and in John the Faster (d. 595) (139-40). The last in particular bears the idea of homosexual intercourse, contrary to Boswell. Wright next replies to Boswell's contention that the term would not be absent ""from so much literature about homosexuality if that is what it denoted (140-41). Wright points out that it should not be expected in writers prior to the first century AD since it did not exist before then, that the Greeks used dozens of words and phrases to refer to homosexuality, that some sources (e.g. Didache) show no acquaintance with Paul's letters or deliberately avoid citing Scripture, and that Boswell neglects citing several church fathers (140-41). Boswell's treatment of Chrysostom in particular draws Wright's attention (141-44). Boswell conspicuously misrepresents the witness of Chrysostom, omitting references and asserting what is patently untrue. Chrysostom gives a long uncompromising and clear indictment of homosexuality in his homily on Rom 1:26. Boswell has exaggerated Chrysostom's infrequent use of the term. Wright observes that Boswell has ""signally failed to demonstrate any us of arsenokoites etc. in which it patently does not denote male homosexual activity"" (144). It is infrequent because of its relatively technical nature and the availability of such a term as paidophthoria that more clearly specified the prevailing form of male homosexuality in the Greco-Roman world. Wright also surveys the Latin, Syriac, and Coptic translations of I Tim and I Cor. All three render arsenokoitai with words that reflect the meaning ""homosexual"" i.e., they understand arseno- as the object of the second half of the word (144-45). None of these primary versions supports Boswell's limited conclusion based on them. Wright concludes his discussion with a few observations about the catalogues of vices as a literary form. He believes that such lists developed in late Judaism as Hellenistic Jews wrote in clear condemnation of homosexuality in the Greek world. This paralleled the increased concern on the part of moral philosophers over homosexual indulgence. The term came into being under the influence of the LXX (145) so that writers spoke ""generally of male activity with males rather than specifically categorized male sexual engagement with paides"" (146). If arsenokoitai and paidophthoria were interchangeable, it is because the former encompassed the latter (146). In summary, Wright seeks to show that arsenokoitai is a broad term meaning homosexuality and arises with Judaism. The views of Boswell, Scroggs, and others who limit the term to ""active male prostitutes"" or pederasty are without significant support from linguistic and historical studies. [Next: the questioning of Wrights position by William Peterson. After that, we get into the ""good"" stuff of historical & linguistic studies. THis will include ""Symposium"" by Plato. If there is any doubt as to the modern understanding of homosexuality being understood or contemmplated at the time of Paul, this will certainly clear things up. Also we will review Paul's use of Lev18-20 in the NT and how, as for him, 1) the Law was fulfilled, but not done away with, 2) Lev 18-20 was the universal and the following chapters the general. Those who put forth that the OT no longer holds true today in our culture, should stick around for this one.] ___________________________ 13 R. Scroggs, THe New Testament and Homosexuality (Phil: 1983) 86, 107-8. Independently we came to the same conclusion. Apparently the connection is made in E.A. Sophocles, Greek Lexicon of the Roman & Byzantine Periods (from 146BC to AD 1100). 14 See discussion, 101-4. He says the same thing about Paul's language in Rom 1:26-27 (128). But this is doubtful. See the more cautious words of P. Zaas, ""I Cor 6.9ff: Was Homosexuality Condoned in the Corinthian Church? SBLASP 17 (1979):205-12. He observes that the words moixai, malakoi, and arsenokoitai were part of Jewish anti-Gentile polemic. Yet Paul's wors at the end of the vice list, ""and such were some of you,"" indicate that ""Paul is addressing real or potential abuses of his ethical message, not citing primitive tradition by rote"" (210). Wright disputes Zaas' attempt to associate the term with idolatry (147). 15 On Boswell's treatment of Rom 1:26-7, the article by R.B. Hays, ""Relations Natural and Unnatural"" A Response to John Boswell's Exegesis of Romans 1,"" JRE 14/1 (Spring 1986): 184-215, is an excellent critique. 16 D.F. Wright, ""Homosexuals or Prostitutes? The Meaning of ARSENOKOITAI (I Cor 6:9, I Tim 1:10), VC 38 (1984):125-53. 17 In an unpublished paper, Henry Mendell, ""ARSENOKOITAI: Boswell on Paul,"" effectively refutres Boswell's claims regarding the philology of arsenokoitai. He finds the meaning to be general, ""a male who has sex with a male"" (4-11). 18 Wright's endnotes (148-49) list additional sources in the church fathers. 19 We also have noticed the same tendency by Boswell to fail to cite all the references to Sodom and sodomy in the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. See J.B. DeYoung, ""A Critique of Prohomosexual Interpretations of the OT Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha,"" BSac 146/588 (1990):437-53. 20 In light of the claim made by Boswell that the infrequency of arsenokoitai points to a meaning lacking homosexual significance, Wright asks pertinently ""why neither Philo nor Josephus use paidofthoria, nor Josephus paiderastia, and why . . Clement did not use the latter and Chrysostom the former?"" (152 n. 71) In a more recent article, ""Homosexuality: The Relevance of the Bible,"" EvQ 61 (1989):291-300, Wright reiterates these same points. Paul shows a ""remarkable originality"" in extending the OT ethic to the church (300). ",15 "Re: Happy Birthday Israel! In article eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: Israel - Happy 45th Birthday! May you and your neighbors know peace even before you see 46. ",17 "Re: Booting from B drive In article khan0095@nova.gmi.edu (Mohammad Razi Khan) writes: >glang@slee01.srl.ford.com (Gordon Lang) writes: > >>David Weisberger (djweisbe@unix.amherst.edu) wrote: >>: I have a 5 1/4"" drive as drive A. How can I make the system boot from >>: my 3 1/2"" B drive? [intermediate reply suggesting cable switch deleted] > >I have AMI bios, I have poked around the bios but haven't tried this but somewhere it says BOOT: A:;C: >I would assume that you could probably slip in a b: >althoug a.) I haven't tried it and >b.) don't mess with your CMOS unless you know what your doing!! I hate to burst your bubble but you cannot ""slip in a B:"" to that particular AMI BIOS setting. That setting only allows you to set the *boot order* of the floppy A: with respect to the primary HD C:, i.e., check A: first, then C: or check C:, then A:. > > >>Gordon Lang >-- >Mohammad R. Khan / khan0095@nova.gmi.edu >After July '93, please send mail to mkhan@nyx.cs.du.edu Regards, Paul Yee yee@nimios.eng.mcmaster.ca ",3 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In <1993Apr15.010933.23524@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith ""Justified And Ancient"" Cochran) writes: >[Note: Followups out of talk.abortion] >In article lis450bw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (lis450 Student) writes: >>Hmmmm. Define objective morality. Well, depends upon who you talk to. >Sounds pretty subjective to me... >-- It certainly does. There are all shades and flavors and varieties of religion, so you can find whatever you are interested in. There is certainly not 100% consensus among theists as to an objective moral standard. MAC >=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC= >=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???= >=""Do you have some pumps and a purse in this shade? A perfume that whispers, = >='please come back to me'? I'm looking for something in Green.""-Laurie Morgan= -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",19 "Jewish Committee on the Middle East (JCOME) I flipped on my local Cable Access Channel (a channel where any community member can broadcast whatever they want for about $50 per half hour) and saw a ""documentary"" (I use this term loosely) on the conflict in the West Bank. It was apparently made with a hand held camcorder (the quality was terrible, and the camera was really jumpy). The documentary (sic) told the tales of all of the children who died in the ""war"" against the Jews as martyrs. It was a regular sob story. One ""victimized youth"" was recounting on how all he ""really"" wants to do is to get an education and that the big bad Jews won't let him go to high school. He admittedly spent 4 years in prison (age 13 to 17) for murdering a Jewish woman but claims that it was ""for the cause."" I have seen this kind of garbage before. I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian cause (as do many Jews), but I think that even many Arabs would be ashamed to call this a documentary! The most suprising part is that the only credits shown at the end was an address for the makers of the film named JEWISH COMM. ON THE MIDDLE EAST. Anybody heard of them? They make Peace Now look like right-wingers. Gedaliah Friedenberg -=-Department of Mechanical Engineering -=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science -=-Michigan State University ",17 "Re: Countersteering_FAQ please post In article <12739@news.duke.edu> infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew Infante) writes: >In article <05APR93.02678944.0049@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> C70A@UNB.CA (C70A000) writes: >>In article Eric@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (93CBR900RR) writes: >>>Would someone please post the countersteering FAQ...i am having this awful [...] >> >> Ummm, if you push on the right handle of your bike while at speed and >>your bike turns left, methinks your bike has a problem. When I do it > >Really!? > >Methinks somethings wrong with _your_ bike. > >Perhaps you meant _pull_? > >Pushing the right side of my handlebars _will_ send me left. > >It should. >REally. > >>on MY bike, I turn right. No wonder you need that FAQ. If I had it >>I'd send it. > >I'm sure others will take up the slack... > [...] >-- >Andy Infante | I sometimes wish that people would put a little more emphasis | Oh, lord. This is where I came in. Obcountersteer: For some reason, I've discovered that pulling on the wrong side of the handlebars (rather than pushing on the other wrong side, if you get my meaning) provides a feeling of greater control. For example, rather than pushing on the right side to lean right to turn right (Hi, Lonny!), pulling on the left side at least until I get leaned over to the right feels more secure and less counter-intuitive. Maybe I need psychological help. Obcountersteer v2.0:Anyone else find it ironic that in the weekend-and-a- night MSF class, they don't mention countersteering until after the first day of riding? ----- Tommy McGuire, who's going to hit his head on door frames the rest of the evening, leaning into those tight turns.... mcguire@cs.utexas.edu mcguire@austin.ibm.com ""...I will append an appropriate disclaimer to outgoing public information, identifying it as personal and as independent of IBM...."" ",8 "Re: Back Breaker, Near Hit!! In article <1r941o$3tu@menudo.uh.edu> inde7wv@Rosie.UH.EDU writes: >another to the list but with this one I felt the most helpless. I am sitting >at a light about 1 - 2 car lengths behind a car, a wise decsion. Suddenly I >hear screeching tires. I dart my eyes to my mirrors and realize it's the >moroon flying up right behind me, in my panic I pop my clutch and stall the >bike. Luckily the guy stops a foot behind my rear wheel. > >I understand why you theoretically stop so far behind a car but can you >really in actuality avoid such an incident? Suggestions? I've only ever done it in an automatic. I was sitting in my Olds, in the winter, at a light, when I heard screeching behind me. I managed to dart into the left turn lane before the sliding Jetta wound up half where I was and half in the parked car beside where I was. I've never had occasion to do it on a bike, but I imagine that it would be even easier, because you could slip beside the car in front. Giving a gander at the mirrors while at a light will give you time to get the clutch out smoothly when you notice trouble, instead of waiting for the screeching. I've bike like | Jody Levine DoD #275 kV got a you can if you -PF | Jody.P.Levine@hydro.on.ca ride it | Toronto, Ontario, Canada ",8 "Re: Societally acceptable behavior In article , cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: > I guess I'm delving into a religious language area. What exactly is morality > or morals? I hope there is not one- with a subject like this you just have a spiral. What would then be a morality of a morality of morals. Labels don't make arguments. One really needs a solid measuring stick by which most actions can be interpreted, even though this would hardly seem moral. For example ""The best thing for me is to ensure that I will eat and drink enough. Hence all actions must be weighed against this one statement."" whatever helps this goal is ""moral"", whatever does not is ""immoral"" Of course this leads such a blank space: there are so many different ways to fulfill a goal, one would need a ""hyper-morality"" to apply to just the methods. >I never thought of eating meat to be moral or immoral, but I think > it could be. How do we differentiate between not doing something because it is > a personal choice or preference and not doing something because we see it as > immoral? Do we fall to what the basis of these morals are? Seems to me we only consider something moral or immoral if we stop to think about it long enough :) On the other hand, maybe it is our first gut reaction... Which? Who knows: perhaps here we have a way to discriminate morals. I don't instinctively thing vegetarianism is right (the same way I instinctively feel torture is wrong), but if I thought about it long enough and listened to the arguments, I could perhaps reason that it was wrong (is that possible!? :) ) See the difference? > > Also, consensus positions fall to a might makes right. Or, as you brought out, > if whatever is right is what is societally mandated then whoever is in control > at the time makes what is right > > MC > MAC > -- > **************************************************************** > Michael A. Cobb > ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois > class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana > -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu > > Nobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton -- best regards, --Adam ******************************************************************************** * Adam John Cooper ""Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings * * (612) 696-7521 who thought themselves good simply because * * acooper@macalstr.edu they had no claws."" * ******************************************************************************** ",0 "Re: Mix GL with X (Xlib,Xt,mwm) In article <27808.9304211039@scorpion.dps.co.uk>, gerard@dps.co.UK (Gerard O'Driscoll) writes: |> |> pyeatt@Texaco.com writes: |> |> >> There is a widget already defined for GL. It is the GlxMDraw (motif) or |> >> GlxDraw (athena) widget. It is similar to a XmDrawingArea, except that it |> >> allows you to use GL calls to render into the window. Look at glxlink, |> >> glxunlink, glxgetconfig, and glxwinset in the man pages. |> |> Where do I get hold of these widgets? |> |> Gerard O'Driscoll (gerard.odriscoll@dps.co.uk) |> Du Pont Pixel Systems Ltd. They come with every Iris now. Nth also ships it with their latest version of Nth Portable GL. I just got the update a couple of weeks ago. I would assume that Silicon Graphics would license the source to you so that you can include it in your company's GL offering. -- Larry D. Pyeatt The views expressed here are not Internet : pyeatt@texaco.com those of my employer or of anyone Voice : (713) 975-4056 that I know of with the possible exception of myself. ",5 "unix sale ****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX****UNIX**** FORSALE: ESIX UNIX System V Release 4 - NEW! 2 user license system - $400 Unlimited user license system - $450 2 user license system with dev kit - $500 Unlimited user license system with dev kit - $550 The above systems include all of the floppies or tapes and instalation manuals. They are new and have never been installed before. Market value for the above systems is about $1500 US! If you are interested, please contact me at 416-233-6038. Thanks, ...Mike mike.budlanski@canrem.com -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario 416-629-7000/629-7044 ",6 "Re: health care reform In article custer@wrc.wrgrace.com (Linda Custer) writes: >This is my first post, and I am not even sure it will work. Here goes. > >Did anyone read the editorial on page 70 in the 29 march 1993 edition of Time >Magazine, noting that managed care is extremely inefficient? Of all the possible >clients that Billary could be pandering to, the insurance industry is the worst! > >Comments? I agree. Adding layers of managers and bureaucrats simply eat up money that could be spent on those who actually are doing the work such as doctors and nurse, and supplies. The most efficient system is probably one that has limited management and a fixed budget such as England's or even Canada's. I'm afraid we are on the wrong track. The problem may be that the insurance lobby is too powerful. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Need to find out number to a phone line > Joseph Mich Krzeszewsk writes: > > Msg-ID: <1quomg$f6m@bigboote.WPI.EDU> > Posted: 19 Apr 1993 17:49:04 GMT > > Org. : Worcester Polytechnic Institute > > Well, this is my second try at posting on this subject. Here goes... > In Texas (Corpus Christi at least) if you pick up the phone and > dial > 890 the phone company will read the number of the phone you are on > back to you. I believe the service department uses this to make > certain they are repairing the correct lines when they open the BIG > junction boxes. I don't know if it will work but you can give it a > try. Good luck. > > Where I live, I use BCTEL. The number to dial is 211 for the same result. -- +--------------------------------------------+ | Sean Oliver | | Internet Address: a8647@MINDLINK.BC.CA | | | | Mindlink! BBS (604)576-1412 | +--------------------------------------------+ ",12 "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #011 Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Right Violations in Azerbaijan #011 Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh +-------------------------------------------------------+ | | | ""Right, we should slaughter the Armenians!"" and | | ""There's no need to be afraid, all of Moscow is | | behind us."" I even heard that: ""All Moscow is | | behind us."" Well I watched and listened in and | | realized that this was no joke. | | | +-------------------------------------------------------+ DEPOSITION OF YURI VAGARSHAKOVICH MUSAELIAN Born 1953 Line Electrician Sumgait Streetcar and Trolleybus Administration Resident at Building 4/21, Apartment 29 Block 14, Narimanov Street Sumgait [Azerbaijan] I spent almost all of February doing overhaul. The 27th was a short day at work, we worked until eleven or eleven-thirty and left for home. I decided to go for a short walk. I went to Primorsky Park. I walked past the Eternal Flame and saw a group of about 8 to 10 people standing there. When I had walked another 15 to 20 yards I heard the screech of automobile brakes behind me. I turned my head toward the sound. It was a light blue GAZ-24 Volga. I see that the people who were standing there have gone over to the car. A man and a woman get out. The man is expensively dressed, in a suit, and the woman has a raincoat on. She doesn't have anything on her head, and her hair is let down, sightly reddish hair, a heavy-set woman. They're 40 to 45 years old. They get something out of the trunk. The people start to help them. I become curious just what are they pulling out of there? When I got up close I heard them turn something on. I didn't see what it was, but it was probably a tape recorder. They put it on the ground near the Eternal Flame honoring the 26 Baku Commissars and formed a tight circle around it. I ask, ""What's going on?"" Someone tells me, ""Come listen."" Well they were Azerbaijanis, I had asked in Azerbaijani. I hear appeals: ""Brother Muslims, our time has come . . . "" and something else along that line. I didn't understand what it was all about. I walked around the group trying to get a look at the owner of the tape recorder. But the circle drew in tighter. New people started coming from various directions, five here, seven there. And the comments started: ""Right, we should slaughter the Armenians!"" and ""There's no need to be afraid, all of Moscow is behind us."" I even heard that: ""All Moscow is behind us."" Well I watched and listened in and realized that this was no joke. I quietly left and went home. Now before that at work I had heard that something was going on in Karabagh, that there were demonstrations there. Well, people were saying all kinds of things, but I didn't have any idea what was really going on. My wife and son were at home, but my daughter was at my aunt's house in Baku. I didn't say anything to my wife. We sat and drank tea. Sometime around two o'clock right behind our house suddenly there is noise, whistling, and shouting. I looked out the window and saw a crowd. The crowd is moving slowly, like they show on TV when blacks in South Africa are striking or having a demonstration and move slowly. My wife asks what's going on out there. I say I don't know. I put on some outdoor clothes and went out to find out what it was all about. In the crowd people are shouting ""Down with the Armenians!"" and ""Death to the Armenians!"" I waited for the entire crowd to pass. At first they went down Narimanov Street on the side with the SK club and the City Party Committee; then they turned and went against the traffic--it's one way there--down the Street of the 26 Baku Commissars toward the streetcar line. I went home and told my wife there was a demonstration going on. In fact I thought that we were having the same kind of demonstrations that they had had in Yerevan and in Karabagh. Aside from the things they were shouting, I was surprised that there were only young people in the crowd. And they were minors, under draft age. My wife and son wanted to go upstairs to visit a friend, but I was kind of uneasy and said, ""No, let's stay at home instead."" An hour went by, or maybe an hour and a half. Well, I wasn't keeping track of the time, I can't say exactly how long it was. I look and see another crowd on Narimanov, but now on the side with the microdistricts, the bazaar, and the Rossiya movie theater. I put outside clothes on and went out again. There's noise, an uproar outside, and the crowd has grown. There are more people. And whereas the first time there were individual shouts, this time they are more focused, more aggressive. No, I think, something's wrong here, this isn't any demonstration. They would run, stop, then walk quickly and make sharp dashes, and then run again. I was walking along the sidewalk and they were in the street. I followed them. I was thinking I'd just watch and see. Who knew where this was leading? We came out on Lenin Square. At the square the SK club is on one side, and the City Party Committee is on the other. I went toward the square and heard noise and shouting, as though the whole town had turned out. There was some sort of a rally going on. I go closer and hear exclamations, appeals. I heard both anti-Armenian and anti-Soviet appeals. ""We don't need perestroika, we want to go on living like we have been."" Now what did they mean by ""living like we have been?"" The Azerbaijanis work like everyone else. But too many people live at the expense of the government and at the expense of others. Speculation, theft, and cheating go on all the time. And not just in Azerbaijan, everywhere, in all the republics, but I've never seen it anywhere else like I have in Azerbaijan. Now at this rally someone says that they should go around to the Armenians' apartments and drive them out, beat them and drive them out. True, I didn't hear them say ""kill them"" over the microphone, I only heard ""beat them and drive them out."" I stayed at the square a few minutes longer. First one, then another are going up onto the stage, and no one tries to stop the crowd. Off to the side of the crowd there were small groups of three or four people, and I think they were MVD [Ministry of Internal Affairs] or State Security KGB. There were also uniformed policemen there, but I didn't see any of them try to pacify the crowd. New people kept coming up onto the stage. Well I had finally decided that this could end badly: This was no demonstration, and I had to protect my family. I left the Square to return home and suddenly noticed a truck. It was next to the City Party Committee, on Narimanov Street, it stood next to the tai- lor's shop there, a low truck, and it had low, wooden panels. I see that some- thing is being unloaded, crates of some sort. I decided to go look because after all those appeals I was apprehensive and thought there might be weapons in there. They pulled the crates out onto the square, not toward the City Party Committee, but toward the SK club. And when I went right up to them I saw that they were cases of vodka. There were two people handing down the cases from the bed of the truck, and on the ground there were many people, 15 to 20. They were handing them down from the truck and each case was carried off by two people. Two people, one case of vodka. And there was a man standing right next to the truck and he was handing out roundish black lumps, maybe about the size of a fist, maybe a little bigger or smaller. It was anasha. When I passed next to that person, he stood with his side to me. There was about a yard and a half between us, and two people were standing near him. He has a package in his hand, and he's pulling out anasha and handing it out. I have never smoked it myself. Once I tried it for fun, but I've seen a lot of people smoke it, I've seen it many times, and I know what it is. I strolled around and no one asked me who I was or what I was doing there. Before I got to the Glass Bazaar I heard more howling, more warlike shouting. I turned around and saw them running. Well I'll just keep on going like I am, I thought. When they caught up with me I saw that they were carrying flags. And I recognized the person who was carrying the flag on my side of the street. He's a young guy, 21 or 22 years old. He was carrying a red flag, which had ""Ermeni oryum"" written on it in Azerbaijani, that means ""Death to Armenians!"" That guy used to live off the same courtyard as us. I don't really know what his name is, but I know his father very well. His father's name is Rafik; he used to be a cook, and then became head chef. He used to have a dark blue Zhiguli van, then he sold it and now he has a white Zhiguli 06. His family, as I said, lived on the same courtyard as we did. Our building was on Narimanov Street, and theirs was on the Street of the 26 Baku Commissars; their apartment was in the far entryway, on the fifth floor, the door on the left. Now Rafik's little brother lives there, and he, Rafik, I heard, got a new apartment either in the forth or eighth microdistrict. In a word, his son was carrying a flag that said ""Death to Armenians!"" I was surprised because before this I had gotten the impression that all of this nonsense was being done not by people from Sumgait, but by Azerbaijanis from Agdam and Kafan. Well anyway I went home. My wife was upset. I told her, ""It's OK, it'll pass, they're young kids, they've just gotten all whooped up."" Naturally I didn't want her to get overly upset. After a while a new surge of crowd went by. And this time they were breaking glass. I could hear it breaking, but I couldn't see where. Well I think, here we go, the machine's in motion. They weren't handing out that vodka and anasha for nothing. I didn't see people drinking and smoking on the spot, but they certainly hadn't unloaded the vodka and hashish to put in a store window! So the thought flashed through my head that the machine was running, no one would stop them now, they weren't even trying, although, I'll say it again, the police were there, I saw them. And it's not just that the police weren't breaking them up, they were joking with them, they were having a good time. True, at the time I couldn't even imagine that under our government, our much- vaunted leadership--and I'm not afraid to say these words: so many people died, So many women were abused, and how many abominations there were!--I couldn't imagine that under our much-vaunted authorities, and if I were to be specific, I would say under the much-touted authorities in our city of Sumgait, I couldn't imagine that such things could take place. When they started breaking glass I told my wife and son: ""Let's go upstairs."" We went to our neighbors, the Grigorians, on the fourth floor. And in the evening, when those crowds started going past again, I went outside once more. I stopped at ""The Corner,"" a place called that right next to the bazaar. I look and see a crowd on the run. And there, a few yards from the entrance to the bazaar, are three respectable-looking men of around, say, 50 years old. The crowd was running and one of the three waved with his arm and pointed toward the bazaar. And then the whole crowd, as though it were one person, wheeled and raced toward the bazaar. And not a soul went past those three, as though it were off limits! Well everything got all churned up, there was more noise, and the glass was flying again. We spent the night at the neighbors'. My apartment was on the first floor, there was really no way to defend yourself there. In the morning I went out to buy bread and to see what was happening in town. On the way I saw someone hunched up, still. I never found out who it was or what happened to him. There were 10 to 15 people standing near him. I got the bread and on my way back, they had gathered around the person who was lying there hunched up, sort of enclosing him; because of the way they were standing you couldn't even see him. That was on the morning of February 28. Everyone knows the rest. May 17, 1988 Yerevan - - - reference - - - [1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan, Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 161-164 -- David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | ""How do we explain Turkish troops on S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | the Armenian border, when we can't P.O. Box 382761 | even explain 1915?"" Cambridge, MA 02238 | Turkish MP, March 1992 ",17 "keycode wrong for XKeyReleasedEvent ?? I am writing a X-based dosemu which requires XKeyReleasedEvent. I found the keycode of XKeyReleasedEvent is wrong. If I run the program on a Linux host(XFree1.2) with DISPLAY set to the local Linux and to the Sun host (X11R5), the two keycodes from the two Xservers are different. Of course, the keycode of XKeyPressedEvent is O.K. Can anybody verify this ? Did I do anything wrong ? Thanks. -- Edward Der-Hua Liu CS department National Taiwan University, Taiwan dhliu@solar.csie.ntu.edu.tw ",5 "Dealing with cults - a few thoughts In the wake of the Waco denouement, I had email discussions with people from this group. In particular, we discussed how cults operate, why the FBI might be motivated to black out news or behave the way it did, and what kinds of problems are involved in dealing with cults and similar organizations. I include an edited account of what I wrote. The identity of my correspondents have (I hope) been erased. The editing process makes the text choppy - sorry about that. I've tried to retain the information content. Ellipses (...) indicate where text was removed. A few of the comments in parentheses are new, intended to make it easier for outsiders to understand. These notes are preliminary - feel free to criticize. Cheers(?), Oded ------------------------ (begin included text) ----------------------- I took a course called the MADNESS OF CROWDS, ... The course included cults and briefly mentioned/analyzed Jonestown. (Did some external reading too). William Adorno ... edited a series of books on the psychology of ""evil"" mass movements... starting with THE AUTHORITARIAN PERSONALITY, University of Chicago Press, 1948 ... an attempt to figure out what would motivate people to support fascism or be the bad guys in WWII, and by extension in other wars, in racial lynchings ... I don't think the books are perfect, and the study of psychopathology has advanced ..., but you can elicit Koresh types from even the first volume. So I think they're onto something. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- How cult psychology works... [I'm an amateur. Hope I'm not hopelessly naive.] So long as Koresh could ""own"" his people, he made sure they didn't believe there was any life out there for them, away from him. Otherwise, he'd (Koresh) be nothing. During the siege, ex-Davidians recounted how he convinced the people in the compound they survived only through his intercession with God to spare their worthless souls. Absolutely classic brainwashing technique. ... As long as they believed him, they'd ignore BATF/FBI/Child Protective Services or even the Red Cross asking them to come out. After all, if they ever left him, God would catapult them straight to Hell, and the combined forces of the US gummint, with all the goodwill in the world (doubtful) couldn't save them for a second. If I believed it, I'd stay and die too, like the folks in Jonestown. For a prosaic analogy, replace a cult leader with an estranged wife (or husband), and notice how many folks show up, kill the ex and then themselves. That's the consequence of shattered ""cultism."" It really does happen all the time. [By the way, the treasured ideal in such cases, without which life is meaningless, is the relationship, no matter how abusive, rather than the individual's partner.] ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [Why No News, Don't The Feds Owe The World An Explanation?] I agree that official explanations are in order. I can also see good (?) reasons for news blackouts. > The only fact available is that had the FBI not acted > yesterday, those people would be alive today. ... that no matter what, those people would have died, because Koresh made sure they believed they had no lives outside his influence. Hence it would make little difference when or how the FBI acted. He held them hostage, as his trump against going to jail, but nothing would really stop him from offing them. Even if the FBI went away! Look at history. Rep Leo Ryan (and some staffers) visited Jonestown, at the request of constituents who had relatives there. Once Jonestown was discovered, and even though they killed Ryan and his entourage ... they all killed themselves, because Jim Jones knew he'd be busted. Internal arguments asking to spare the children, brought up by some of the women in the cult, were shouted down. There are tapes... The ""logic"" of saying that no matter how bad the gummint is, it wouldn't kill the kids, was shouted down as blasphemy, and the people who brought it up were threatened with ostracism by people who by THEIR OWN AVOWAL would be dead within the hour. I suspect it's the same with the Branch Davidians. (There's a book on Jonestown by James Reston Jr., titled OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HELL. I don't know whether it's good - never read it.) ... The only way to prevent such a problem would be never to investigate reports of child abuse or sexual mistreatment, or organizations buying full-auto conversion kits or shipping hand grenades via UPS, on the off chance of stumbling across cults that would kill themselves. ... So, the only way the BATF/FBI could ""save"" those people, and future cults, is by ignoring such signs. I suppose there's another way - outsmarting Koresh and tricking him into letting them go, or somehow influencing ""his"" people to abandon him while he owns most of their means of communication with the world. ... a mighty tough row to hoe. ... I suspect the FBI tried to do that with blackouts, noise and other sensory insults. However, maybe they're not very sophisticated, or maybe the job is impossible. It's certainly possible the guy running the show was a jerk. ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [Why the FBI might want to blackout during and coverup after] ... - if they were doing a poor job of weaning the BD's from Koresh, they'd want to keep it quiet so they wouldn't be embarrassed. ... - if they were trying to wean the BD's from Koresh, they'd want to keep it quiet so he couldn't outflank them, or well-meaning boneheads from ANY point of view wouldn't screw it up. ... I _hate_ playing chess when the world screams in my face, especially if at checkmate time people really die, and I could be blamed. ... I don't think ignoring such incidents is a workable policy, unless you deny the FBI, BATF, Child Protective Services (of whatever stripe) and the rest of the gummint should exist at all. (the end) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, have at it. ",16 "Re: Opinions asked about rejection Here's how I talk to non-Christians who are complaining about Hell. ME: ""Do you believe you're going to Heaven?"" HIM: ""I don't believe in Heaven."" ME: ""So are you going there?"" HIM: ""If there was a heaven, I would."" ME: ""But since there isn't a Heaven, you're not going there, are you?"" HIM: ""No."" The point is that Heaven is based on faith--if you don't believe in heaven, there's no way you're going to be in it. Of course, the next step is, ""I don't believe in Hell either, so why will I be there?"" It seems to me that Hell is eternal death and seperation from God. Most atheists do believe that when they die they will die forever, and never see God--so they do, in fact, believe that they're going to Hell. Hell doesn't have to be worse than earth to be Hell--because it's eternal, and it's a lot worse than Heaven. That's the only comparison that matters. Alan Terlep ""Incestuous vituperousness"" Oakland University, Rochester, MI atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu --Melissa Eggertsen Rushing in where angels fear to tread. ",15 "Re: 14 Apr 93 God's Promise in 1 John 1: 7 Brian Kendig writes: > Lev 17:11: For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given > it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is > the blood that makes atonement for the soul. > >The Old Testament was very big on the ""eye for an eye"" business. It >makes sense that Leviticus would support physical injury to ""repay"" >moral wrongdoing. Brian K., guess what? You missed the point. On a scale from cold to hot, you are at 0 degrees Kelvin. >I know about sanctification. I've been taught all about it in Sunday >school, catechism class, and theology classes. But even after all >that, I still can't accept it. Maybe I'm still not understanding it, >or maybe I'm just understanding it all too well. Then as you understand it, what is it? >From the bottom of my heart I know that the punishment of an innocent >man is wrong. Yes. I agree with that. But what does that have to do with Jesus? Punishment you say? Jesus did not regard his death as punishment. >I've tried repeatedly over the course of several years >to accept it, but I just can't. Good. I wouldn't either--not the way you understand it. >If you can explain to me why the death of Jesus was a *good* thing, >then I would be very glad to hear it, and you might even convert me. >Be warned, however, that I've heard all the most common arguments >before, and they just don't convince me. Ask Jesus himself. He himself said why in John 12:23-32. It isn't a mystery to anyone and there certainly is no need for a persuasive argument. Read Jesus's own reply to your question. Jesus gives more reasons in John 16:7. But one obvious reason why Jesus died, (and as with everything else, it has nothing do with his punishment) was that he could rise to life again--so that we would ""stop doubting and believe"" (John 21:27). The fact that Jesus rose from the dead is my hope that I too will rise from the dead. It is an obvious point. Do not overlook it. Without this obvious point, I would have no hope and my faith would be vanity. Why did Jesus suffer in his death? Again, ask Jesus. Jesus says why in John 15:18-25. That's no mystery either. ""The world hates him without reason."" It is a direct proclamation of how far we humans botch things up and thus, how much we need a Saviour. And why can't you, Brian K., accept this? How can you? ""The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him."" (John 14:17). The animosity and the lack of knowledge that comes out in your twistings of Robert's daily verses is very convincing testimony of the truth of John 14:17 and 16:25. I pray and hope that I do blurt out such animosity and lack of knowledge. I am not perfect either. But regardless of that, I thank God that Jesus revealed himself to me, without whom I'd also be bumbling about blindly though arrogantly slandering the very Person who created me and who loves me. ",19 "Re: Merlin, Mithras and Magick kosinski@us.oracle.com (Kevin Osinski) writes: >I recall reading in Michael (?) Rutherford's novel ""Sarum"" a scene in >which the son of a Roman nobleman living in Britain takes part in a >secret ceremony involving a bull. He stands naked in a pit covered >with some sort of scaffolding while assistants coax a bull to stand on >the scaffolding. They then fatally stab the bull, which douses the >worshipper in the pit with blood. This is supposedly some sort of >rite of passage for members of the bull cult. I wonder if this is >related to the Mithras cult? > >I don't know where Rutherford got his information for this chapter. >The book is historical fiction, and most of the general events which >take place are largely based on historical accounts. There is a rite like this described in Joseph Campbell's _Occidental_Mythology_. He also described levels of initiation, I think 6? I don't know where Campbell got his info, but I remember thinking he was being a little eclectic. >I also wonder what if any connection there is between the ancient bull >cults and the current practice of bullfighting popular in some >Mediterranean cultures. Quite a bit. If you haven't read Campbell, give him a try. -- -- Larry Caldwell caldwell@ohsu.edu CompuServe 72210,2273 Oregon Health Sciences University. (503) 494-2232 ",19 "Repeat violent criminals--is reform often impossible? From the Boston Globe, Thursday April 22 1993 p. 44 Walpole man, 32, guilty in rape Kenne, N.H. -- A Walpole man charged with kidnapping a mother of two from her home, then raping and beating her, has pleaded guilty. Roger Santaw Jr. also plead- ed guilty to an attempted escape from Cheshire County jail last win- ter. Santaw, 32 is scheduled to be sentenced next week. The rape last fall came six months after Santaw was released from prision, where he spent 15 years for a rape he commit- ted when he was 16. (AP) [end of article] Any reactions? Did he do enough time? What should his penalty be? BTW, Walpole is a town in Massachusetts. Of course, New hampshire is close by. J. Case Kim kim39@husc.harvard.edu ",16 "Order MOORE's book to restore Great Telescope Several people have enquired about the availability of the book about the Great 72"" reflector built at Birr Castle, Ireland in 1845 which remained the largest in the world until the the start of the 20th century. ""The Astronomy of Birr Castle"" was written by Patrick Moore who now sits on the committee which is going to restore the telescope. (The remains are on public display all year round - the massive support walls, the 60 foot long tube, and other bits and pieces). This book is the definitivie history of how one man, the Third Earl of Rosse, pulled off the most impressive technical achievement, perhaps ever, in the history of the telescope, and the discoveries made with the instrument. Patrick Moore is donating all proceeds from the book's sale to help restore the telescope. Astronomy Ireland is making the book available world wide by mail order. It's a fascinating read and by ordering a copy you bring the day when we can all look through it once again that little bit nearer. =====ORDERING INFORMATION===== ""The Astronomy of Birr Castle"" Dr. Patrick Moore, xii, 90pp, 208mm x 145mm. Price: U.S.: US$4.95 + US$2.95 post & packing (add $3.50 airmail) U.K. (pounds sterling): 3.50 + 1.50 post & packing EUROPE (pounds sterling): 3.50 + 2.00 post and packing REST OF WORLD: as per U.S. but funds payable in US$ only. PAYMENT: Make all payments to ""Astronomy Ireland"". CREDIT CARD: MASTERCARD/VISA/EUROCARD/ACCESS accepted by email or snail mail: give card number, name & address, expiration date, and total amount. Payments otherwise must be by money order or bank draft. Send to our permanent address: P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland. You can also subscribe to ""Astronomy & Space"" at the same time. See below: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Ryan, ""Astronomy & Space"", new International magazine, available from: Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland. 6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail). ACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address). (WORLD'S LARGEST ASTRO. SOC. per capita - unless you know better? 0.033%) Tel: 0891-88-1950 (UK/N.Ireland) 1550-111-442 (Eire). Cost up to 48p per min ",14 "Re: Prayer in Jesus' Name In article munns@cae.wisc.edu (Scott Munns) writes: >I am doing a dormitory bible ""discussion"" with my Christian roommate and >in Jesus' name, what about the people before Jesus? They prayed to God >and he listened then, in spite of their sins. Why can't it be the same >way now?"" > [insert huge deletion of all following material since it had little relevance to what I've found] OK. The people before Jesus didn't have Jesus, right (so far, I've announced that space is a vacuum)? The people who lived during the time Jesus lived (especially disciples) were taught this: ""I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."" (John 14:12-14) So, Jesus asked them to pray for things in his name. Since that time, the request has been the same, not to ask for intercession from other beings, but from Jesus. Remember that ""there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time."" (1 Timothy 2:5-6. Also, ""there have been many of those priests [talking about priests among the Hebrews], since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them."" (Hebrews 7:23-25). Hebrews is also full of areas talking about Jesus being our mediator rather than any other man. Joe Fisher [""The people before Jesus didn't have Jesus, right"" may not be as obvious as you think. In what sense to you mean didn't have? Christian thought has generally said that they had Jesus in the sense that they were saved by his death. God is not bound by our chronology. So in some real spiritual sense they did ""have Jesus"". Even in terms of knowledge, while they surely didn't have the explicit knowledge that we have, Christians have normally seen messianic prophecy as knowledge of Jesus, even if knowledge from afar. --clh] ",15 "Re: Screw the people, crypto is for hard-core hackers & spooks jhart@agora.rain.com (Jim Hart) writes: > You don't care that people are being lied to, fooled into believing the > chip gives ""privacy"" when it fact it allows wiretaps? It does give privacy, just not absolute privacy. The announcement was very up front about this, and about allowing wiretaps. How is this ""fooling"" anyone? > are you so smart that you know when you're talking > to somebody who has a wiretap chip on their phone instead of a privacy > chip with private keys?) Sure. The two don't interoperate. You couldn't talk to, say, a Cylink phone from a Clipper phone. I would expect even multiprotocal phones to come with indicators saying which kind of link encryption is in use... > We *do* need an alternative to NSA-bugged telephones, but > we're talking inexpensive *telephones* here, including hand-sized > cellulars, that need strong crypto, real privacy. So start a company and build them. This is still mostly a capitalist economy... > What we need is a true *privacy chip*. For example, a real-time > voice-encryption RSA, put it into a silicon compiler and spit out > ASIC. Put this chip on the market as a de facto standard for > international business, diplomats, and private communications. I agree. Go for it. Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation ",11 "Red Sox win 1st BoSox 3 Royals 1 WP: Clemens (1-0) LP: Appier (0-1) Key Hit: Mike Greenwell's 2 out tripple with bases loaded. ",9 "Re: Jays' Darrin Jackson is a nightmare! In article <1993Apr19.061102.16204@r-node.hub.org> shadow@r-node.hub.org (Jay Chu) writes: > >Jackson is a bum. And I thought the Jays were smart to get rid of Gruber. >Now we get equally bad! I'm frustrated. Pat Gillick is over rated. Sure, >he did some good moves in the past, but releasing Wells (although his >temper sucks, but he's better than Morris/Stewart/Dayley). If the Jays >were dumping salaries to keep $2mill Jackson, Dayley should be the one to >go before Wells. Of course they dumped Dayley, but it's too late since Dayley's salary was guarenteed...with Wells the Jays were only on the hook for 25%(?) of it. Give Jackson a break...he lost about 10 pounds with that flu he had when he was traded. >Wells was already claimed by the Tigers (0.6 ERA with 2 wins!). Also, the >Jimmy Key and Winfield situations pissed the hell outta me. Would you see >a championship club wanting to repeat so ""badly"" wanted to have such a I would rather have Molitor than Winfield...Winfield was just hogging all the credit, and he was trying to soak the Jays for a 3 year guarenteed contract... >great turnover? No way. Look at the Pittsburg Penguins. They got some >aging players, but didn't make stupid trades to dump them cuz the fans love >those players and they are still the core of the team. Anyways, I just >want to say that if the Jays go BELOW .500 this season, I won't be >surprised. I'm not jumping off the bandwagon, I'm just talking smart >baseball. No matter what, I'm still going to see most of the Jays games >even though I'm damn frustrated! > The Jays pitching can only get better...Molitor and Alomar haven't hit anything yet...and the Jays are still over .500... Gerald ",9 "Goalie mask poll update 4/21/93 Current votes for favorite goalie masks (3pts - 1st, 2pts - 2nd, 1pt - 3rd) Player Team Pts Votes -------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Ed Belfour Chicago 31 14 2. Andy Moog Boston 30 13 3. Curtis Joseph St. Louis 26 11 Brian Hayward San Jose 26 10 5. Ron Hextall Quebec 16 8 6. Gerry Cheevers Boston (retired) 11 6 7. John Vanbeisbrouck NY Rangers 10 4 Grant Fuhr Buffalo 10 4 9. Mike Richter NY Rangers 6 3 10. Manon Rheaume Atlanta (IHL) 5 2 11. Don Beaupre Washington 4 2 Ken Dryden Montreal (retired) 4 2 -------------------------------------------------------------- Others receiving less than 4pts: Mike Vernon (Cal), Clint Malarchuk (Buf/SD,IHL), Tommy Soderstrom (Phil), Ray LeBlanc (USA), Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det), Sean Burke (NJ), Rick Wamsley (Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), Bob Essensa (Win), Glenn Healy (NYI), Toy Espo (???), Gilles Gratton (???), Rod Stauber (LA), Gump Worsley (???), Pat Jablonski (TB), Grant Fuhr (Tor), Felix Potvin (Tor), Stephane Beauregard (Win), Mark Fitzpatrick (NYI), Chico Resch (NYI) Can someone please tell me which teams the (???) play(ed) for? Thanks. -- GO SKINS! ||""Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite GO BRAVES! || an effect on you?"" - Mike Patton, Faith No More GO HORNETS! || GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu ",10 "Re: 1-bit A/D converter In article <1993Apr24.201422.25682@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> mcorbin@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Max Corbin) writes: >Once upon a time, long long ago in this news group, someone >posted a schematic for a 1-bit A/D converter. Well I just found a use >for the little monster. Anyone out there still got this text file? >It had a flip-flop, a resistor and a cap, and a comparator/op-amp I >think. I would be extremely thankful to anyone who could mail me the >schematic or post it to the news-group. Hmmm... how about a piece of copper wire? 0 to 5V input range, standard TTL output, instantaneous conversion time! [ (-: for the humor impaired ] Mark A. Haun | INTERNET: haunma@wwc.edu 252 Sittner Hall | Amateur Radio KJ6PC College Place, WA 99324 | +1 509 527 2297 | ",12 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is oxymoronic? In article emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes: >In article lis450bw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (lis450 Student) writes: >>Hmmmm. Define objective morality. Well, depends upon who you talk to. >>Some say it means you can't have your hair over your ears, and others say >>it means Stryper is acceptable. _I_ would say that general principles >>of objective morality would be listed in one or two places. >>Ten Commandments >>Sayings of Jesus >>the first depends on whether you trust the Bible, >>the second depends on both whether you think Jesus is God, and whether >> you think we have accurate copies of the NT. >Gong! >Take a moment and look at what you just wrote. First you defined >an ""objective"" morality and then you qualified this ""objective"" morality >with subjective justifications. Do you see the error in this? >Sorry, you have just disqualified yourself, but please play again. I'm afraid it's much worse than this! Jesus said follow the Ten Commandments AND the Torah And the Prophets. Christians on the other hand are not only above the Ten Commandments AND the Torah AND the Prophets, i.e. they believe that they do not have to follow it, they don't even follow the subjective morality of Jesus! So, we see that Christians can't follow the ""objective morality"" of their own Ten Commandments, they can't follow the ""subjective morality"" of Jesus when He said follow the Ten Commandments, yet they expect the rest of the world to do; what? Is there any logic here? Is there any morality here, objective or subjective? Is Christianity somebody's idea of a joke? Who could be pulling the wool over the eyes of so many Christians? Who could be such a great deceiver? ",0 "Re: Giveaways In article <1qi44l$kqr@access.digex.net>, steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio) wrote: > > > John P. Curcio (jpc@philabs.philips.com) responded to my drivel: > > >steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio) writes: > > > >>I still am surprised that no one has tried giving away the goodies at the end > >>of the game. The two problems with that, of course, are that you would want > >>to make sure the first people in the building would be assured of getting > >>them (probably redeemable vouchers), and that the building managers want to > >>avoid at all costs delaying people as they leave the building, if, for > >>instance, the goodies are given to people as they exit. > > > >I went to the New Jersey Devils/Carvel Ice Cream Puck Night (tm) last year to > >see the beloved Bruins play. The pucks were given out at the end of the game. > >I could just imagine what would have happened late in the third if the Bruins > >were winning.... > > It figures, after I posted the first article, I found out that the Whalers are > going to be using coupons for the the giveaway on Friday Night. I believe that > is is the ""Some Big Corporation (Probably a Bank) Flying Disk Night."" I think > that we could all see the potential for danger here... > > >|> All in all, I have seen a whole bunch of giveaways land on the ice, and it > >|> never ceases to amuse me. I'm just thankful for the players that no one has > >|> yet to sponsor 'Lead Pipe Night' at any arenas... > > > >That's probably because they couldn't find anyone to sponser it... Maybe USS > >could sponser the Pittsburgh Penguins/US Steel Steel Rod Night-- close enough? > > Naah, it'd probably bounce off of Jay Caufield. > > -SG I was at a Cincinnati Cyclones game a year ago when the local country station sponsored a kazoo giveaway. After a particularly bad call by the underexperienced ECHL ref, it was Kazoostorm time down on the ice. I thought this was a pathetic display by the fans, but they were rightfully unhappy. Jason ",10 "Re: Acutane, Fibromyalgia Syndrome and CFS Daniel Prince (Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com) wrote: : ... I think they should rename Waco TX to Wacko TX! I know it is just a joke, but please remember: the people of Waco did not ask David Koresh to be a lunatic there, he just happened. Waco is a lovely town. I would think someone living in the home of flakes and nut would be more sensitive :-) ",13 "Re: CPU Temperature vs CPU Activity ? In article guyd@austin.ibm.com (Guy Dawson) writes: > >In article <1993Apr21.061246.11363@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, montuno@physics.su.OZ.AU (Lino Montuno) writes: >> This may be a very naive question but is there any basis for the >> claim that a CPU will get hotter when a computationally intensive >> job is running? My friend claims that there will be little difference >> in the temperature of an idle CPU and a CPU running a computationally >> intensive job. > >It first depends on what an idle cpu is doing! > >I'm not sure about DOS, but many multitasking OSs have an loop like this > > >loop: > is there anything to do? > YES -> do it; goto loop > NO -> goto loop > > >The CPU is not doing any work but it is still processing instructions... I've done some ASIC and digital design, but not any CPU design. It would seem to me that on a 486, the FPU is not being used, most of the cache is not being accessed, the off chip buffers/drivers are idle, the multiplier isn't multiplying, the barrel shifters aren't shifting, microcode isn't microcoding, etc. This means transistors aren't switching which means less power dissipated (in CMOS), which means less heat.\ From what I understand, the Pentium shuts down those sections of the CPU which aren't being used in order to cut down on heat/power. -- Dennis Lou || ""But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"" dlou@ucsd.edu || ""Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"" [backbone]!ucsd!dlou |+==================================================== dlou@ucsd.BITNET |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school. ",3 "1990 Integra LS for sale ********* 1990 Integra LS for Sale ********* 5 speed, sunroof, rear spoiler, new tires 59.7K miles $ 7950 or best offer. call 908-949-0878 908-938-4101 email att!hotsoup!peng ********************************************* ",7 "What'S Exactly In A Flour AllMartin MccormickWhat's Exactly in a Flour MM>From: martin@datacomm.ucc.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick) MM>Organization: Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK MM> What sort of lamp is the little glass bulb found inside the starter? MM>It sort of reminds me of a NE2 neon lamp. Starters appear open when m MM>with an Ohm meter so the little lamp is either a neon or has a capacit MM>in series with it. MM> MM> I have seen these things all my life, but never read a really good MM>description of what is happening inside that little can. Do you know what a bi-metallic strip is? Just in case: it is two strips of different metals bonded together, which when heated bend to one side (check out the blinker globe in your christmas tree lights). So when you turn on the power, this causes the bulb to work like a neon, heating up and shorting out, thus providing a loop to power the heaters in the main tube. When the tube fires, insufficient current runs through the starter to keep the heat up and the bi-metalic strip straightens out (O/C). BTW, I too thought that they were nothing more than a small neon, so one day when the neon in my sisters digital (flip the metal squares type) clock broke (flimsy leads), I replaced it with one from a starter. Well powering up made a bit of a mess of the clock! Cheers Peter T. ",12 "Why didn't they come out? After the initial gun battle was over, they had 50 days to come out peacefully. They had their high priced lawyer, and judging by the posts here they had some public support. Can anyone come up with a rational explanation why the didn't come out (even after they negotiated coming out after the radio sermon) that doesn't include the Davidians wanting to commit suicide/murder/general mayhem? Richard ",18 "Re: FCUS/HEALTH: The ""Big Secret"" demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes: >harelb@math.cornell.edu writes: > >> ""IT IS A MATTER OF LOGIC that government-run systems are >> inefficient, and the fact that the highly bureaucratized private >> sector system in the US is vastly more inefficient is therefore >> irrelevant. > > Proof that the entire private sector is vastly more inefficient? Good point, Brett. It might merely be proof that basic health care markets operate differently, with certain nonmarket phenomenom that the private sector can't handle well (like armies vs. warlords). In that respect, the effects on American society vs. Canadian/European society might also be different. >> It is, for example, of no relevance that Blue Cross >> of Massachusetts employs 6680 people, more than are employed in >> all of Canada's health programs, which insure 10 times as many >> people"" > >Blue Cross is the government health insurance provider. Good point again. Blue Cross in the U.S. is quite convoluted compared to the Canadian and German insurance funds, which have a minimal organization to coordinate it. If anything, bureaucracy now needs to be built up in Canada to combat fraud, such as Americans crossing the border individually to use insurance cards borrowed from friends and relatives or using phony domestic addresses, or fraud rings stealing them in blocks. Our private practices are now recording insurance account numbers, both public insurance and private insurance, which most have never bothered to do before on assumption of an honour system. gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",18 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding matt@galaxy.nsc.com (Matt Freivald x8043) writes ... > margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis) >>Reduced? Abortion is a lot cheaper than pre-natal care and birth. >>If you wanted to pay the higher premiums that would result if everyone >>using their health insurance to pay for an abortion instead elected to >>carry to term, I'm pretty sure that your insurance carrier would be >>happy to take your money. > >It is always cheaper to kill children than to take responsibility for >them. Why stop at birth, why not fund infanticide up to age 2? One can't help wondering just how many children YOU have taken responsibility for? Hmmm? -- Ray Fischer ""Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth ray@netcom.com than lies."" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ",18 "Re: Supply Side-revenue In article , ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes: > > The result is that Clinton now HOPES to reduce the deficit to a level > ABOVE where it was when Reagan left office. Which, considering the amount Bush&congress added to it, would be a not-inconsiderable achievement. While we're on the subject, I also believe that the supply-side claim that reducing taxes raised revenue is also false, because they typically factor in SocSec taxes, which were *raised* a considerable amount, at the same time that income taxes were cut. If you look at income tax revenue alone, it fell after after the cuts began, and didn't recover for several years. By then, record deficits were well entrenched. > > Chew on that awhile. *crunch, crunch* steve soar ",18 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In <1993Apr21.045548.17418@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st922957@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Arnold SK...) writes: >Y'know, when the right to bear arms was ""invented"", all we had to worry >about was the shotgun and pistol. Now, we have to worry about drive-bys >with Uzis sparaying the entire neighborhood with bullets. Not so, Arnie. You forget repeating arms (which include machine guns, gatling-style guns, etc...), cannon, rifles, and let's not forget the bullets they managed to use. Everything from rocks to lead to a couple iron balls with a chain between them. If you think warfare is brutal today, buddy you have no idea how brutal things can get. < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > ",16 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article <1993Apr17.061326.16130@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes: Once it hits land you can record it if you have telco access. The telco isn't supposed to give that without a warrant. That's the rule today. But even so, the evidence would not be admissible, I think, unless the judge so ordered. I think that even interception of the crypttext without a warrant would be illegal. Cops can't record today's plain cellular calls and then ask a judge, ""Hey, can we have permission to listen to those tapes?"" can they? How long do you think it will be before it becomes legal for the police to record encrypted conversations ""It's not violating your privacy because we can't read the encryption without a warrant"", with the usual good-faith exception if they accidentally record a non-encrypted conversation. Besides, it's covered by the Drug Exception to the Fourth Amendment... -- # Pray for peace; Bill # Bill Stewart 1-908-949-0705 wcs@anchor.att.com AT&T Bell Labs 4M312 Holmdel NJ # No, I'm *from* New Jersey, I only *work* in cyberspace.... # White House Commect Line 1-202-456-1111 fax 1-202-456-2461 ",11 "Re: Boom! Dog attack! In article , nak@cbnews.cb.att.com (neil.a.kirby) wrote: > > What worked for me on my RD350 was to lean towards the dog as I modulated > throttle to keep my ankle just ahead of his teeth. After a few seconds of > warm pipe firmly wedged on his shoulder he turned his face sideways to see > what was so warm and got his mouth/nose/muzzle burned on the pipes. One > yip and he veered away, never to chase me again. Nice ridin' Tex. I use the California DMV recommended technique: slow as you aproach said dog and wick it up as you pass. I've often contemplated putting the boot in said dog's muzzle as I open the throttle, but have never tried that. I figgure the impact would unballance me and I'd dump the bike. A bicycling technique I've employed was to use my frame mounted tire pump to fend off dog attacks. On one occasion I was attacked by a pack of four dogs at once while peddaling up a steep hill. I lost my right sock, but no blood. I complained to the local Animal Control department (after complaining to the owner of the dogs to no affect) about the dogs; no more dogs, no more attacks. The telephone worked much better than the tire pump. Eric Bong DoD #0270 1986 FZ750 1987 FZR750 1991 VFR750 ",8 "Re: BATF/FBI Murders Almost Everyone in Waco Today! 4/19 It's truly unfortunate that we don't have the Japanese tradition of Hari-Kari for public officials to salvage some tatters of honor after they commit offenses against humanity like were perpetrated in Waco, Texas today. -- Dave Feustel N9MYI I'm beginning to look forward to reaching the %100 allocation of taxes to pay for the interest on the national debt. At that point the federal government will be will go out of business for lack of funds. ",16 "Re: Grayscale Printer Jian Lu (jian@coos.dartmouth.edu) wrote: : We are interested in purchasing a grayscale printer that offers a good : resoltuion for grayscale medical images. Can anybody give me some : recommendations on these products in the market, in particular, those : under $5000? : Thank for the advice. -- *********************************** * Peter Hauke @ Brunel University * *---------------------------------* * se92psh@brunel.ac.uk * *********************************** ",1 "RE: Exploding TV Just a thought........Maybe it possibly has to do with the fact that it IS an Emerson. I've got an Emerson VCR which is #6 in the series. Returned it six times for various and never the same problems. Got tired of taking it back and fixed it myself. The Hi-Fi ""window"" was a bit off. Something like the Hi-Fi audio fine-tuning. When I was a Wal-Mart ""associate"" in '88-'89, we had AT LEAST one returned as defective EVERY SINGLE DAY. How's that for reliability? Face it--Emerson can make audio stuff (albeit not of premium quality), but they CAN'T make anything as complex as video equipment with reliability IMHO. Please, no flames. Just *had* to share my Emerson disaster in the light of this exploding tv. JC -- -----------------+---------------+-------------+--------------+--------------- La Vie -- C'est Une Plage! | ?Caffine Not Present Error | jmc@engr.uark.edu This Message Printed on | Abort, Retry, Fail ? | 100% recycled electricity. | | Tangerine!! ",12 "Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots? In article <1993Apr22.143929.26131@midway.uchicago.edu> jacquier@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Eric Jacquier ) writes: > >I am interested in trying this ""desensitization"" (?) method >against hay fever. >What is the state of affairs about this. I went to a doctor and >paid $85 for a 10 minute interview + 3 scratches, leading to the >diagnostic that I am allergic to (June and Timothy) grass. >I believe this. From now on it looks like 2 shots per week for >6 months followed by 1 shot per month or so. Each shot costs >$20. Talking about soaring costs and the Health care system, I would >call that a racket. We are not talking about rare Amazonian grasses >here, but the garbage which grows behind the doctor's office. >Apart from this issue, I was somewhat disappointed to find out >that you have to keep getting the shots forever. Is that right? >Thanks for information. > > Go to your public library and get the February, 1988 issue of Consumer Reports. An article on allergy shots begins on page 96. This article is MUST reading for anyone contemplating allergy shots. ",13 "Human Body data sets needed urgently Hi all. I'm looking for datasets of a human body or head in any of the popular formats. I'm doing a presentation tomorrow which could be greatly enhanced by bringing in this 'human' factor. I've looked around the net with no sucess so far. Anyone got any ideas? I'd also appreciate info on the location of datasets for the USS Enterprise (any model) Thanks in advance, Ronan ",1 "Re: Stereo sound problem (?) on mac games In article Ingemar Ragnemalm, ingemar@isy.liu.se writes: >>Enter game developers. The sound driver and current sound manager are >>inconveniently lame for making games. > >The Sound Driver is pretty ok, since it's fast. Sound Manager used by the >book is *useless*. Disposing of sound channels as soon as sound has completed >is out of the question for games with smooth animation. (It's too slow.) Why would you dispose a channel if you are going to play more sounds soon? If you are trying to write a game, you shouldn't be using SndPlay. Instead, make a channel and use BufferCmds to play sounds on it. It works great. You can add CallBacks to the channel also to let you know when the channel is getting empty. Before it gets empty. > >The Sound Driver is so much snappier than Sound Manager. Unfortunately, >System 7 supports it poorly, making programs crash occasionally. > >>The moral of the story is to developers: DON'T CHEAT! > >Well, I want my code to work on old systems too. I don't know about sys 7.1, >but at least on 6.0.7, there are bugs in the Sound Manager that causes >channels to hang (with no error message). This happends when I keep a >channel open for long periods - necessary for performance - and play many >sounds, stopping sounds halfway. Callbacks seems not to be reliable. >Then only way I can safely tell if a sound has stopped playing is to >inspect private variables in the channel (QHead, I think it was), and the >only way I have found to tell if a channel is hung is to inspect an >*undocumented* flag and modify it. Callbacks are very reliable, I found them 100% reliable, even under System 4.1. I was doing continuous background sound with interrupting sound effects on System 6.0 with the IM-V documentation. You probably were cancelling your callback commands out of your channels, of course you didn't get called. In general, if you have problems with sounds working when you play one per channel and then close the channel (with the related slowdown), but then when you play more than one you don't work, then you are adding more than one synthesizer to a channel, possibly the same one multiple times. This might be because you are calling SndPlay on a preexisting channel with a sound resource which adds the sampled sound synthesizer to the channel first thing before it plays. Most sampled sounds have this command at the start of them. You need to resedit the sound and remove that command, then when you create your channel, specify the sampled sound synthesizer to be the channel's synth. Then you can use asynch sndplay's all you want. You'll probably want to switch to BufferCmd's, since you are going to have to use SndDoCommand anyway to add callbacks. Now before you go ahead and tell me I am full of it, and the sound manager doesn't work for games, remember, Spectre uses it. And it works great. If Spectre can spare the CPU time, you can too. One little disclaimer: There are some out there who say the Sound Manager in the IIsi can't be made to work right. I'm not sure either way, but I know for sure that you can make your sounds work 100% correctly on every other machine using the Sound Manager. -Steve ",4 "X for PC For those of you who couldn't find X-Appeal, it is availible at the following sitex: ascwide.ascii.co.jp in the /pub/MSDOS/xappeal dir wuarchive.wustl.edu in the /mirrors4/garbo.uwasa.fi/demo directory The three files are xap13exe.aip, xap10fon.zip and drivers.zip. Josh -- + Joshua Weage : U.S. Snail - 277 Spring Rd, Baroda, MI 49101 + + E-Mail: cs890@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu | ai900@yfn.ysu.edu + + Fidonet: Joshua Weage @ 1:2340/130 + + All ideas are my own and no one elses!! + ",5 "Re: Krypto cables (was Re: Cobra Locks) In article csundh30@ursa.calvin.edu (Charles Sundheim) writes: |To follow-up, I had a bad experience w/ a Krypto Lock too... | |Last year I bought a Krypto Cable II (3/8""x3-4' long, something like that) |that by all standards seemed like a decent piece. Until I used it anyway... [...] So, in short, the 3/8"" cables seems to be pretty useless, I would guess. The larger cable seems to be a much better unit. I've got the larger cable - about 5/8"" inch in diameter (actually, I think its larger), about 4 feet long which coils into a 8 or 9 inch coil, with the tubular key lock like the U-locks. It has worked fine for me for two years now, and *seems* (to me, anyway) that it is very secure. It doesn't have the weaknesses that the U-locks have other than the liquid nitrogen trick supposedly, is much easier to store in my tankbag than a U-lock, and more versatile. I got mine from one of the mail-order houses (Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse, I beleive), for $42. In combination with an ignition disable, and a couple of other deterrents, all I *usually* worry about is vandalism. Randy Davis Email: randy@megatek.com ZX-11 #00072 Pilot {uunet!ucsd}!megatek!randy DoD #0013 ""But, this one goes to *eleven*..."" - Nigel Tufnel, _Spinal Tap_ ",8 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes: >rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes: >>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local >>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless? > >Hear, hear! Thanks, Robbie. > >You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as >George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds, >who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers. > > >On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers >for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be. >Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do >with people of all ages. Well, this isn't the right group for this, but I have to say that I don't think violence is any more socially acceptable now, by any means. How can you say that when we used to have of pistol-toting gunslingers as heros, or even gangland thugs being considered romantic. Do you think our great grandparent got yelled at by their parents for playing cowboys and indians? I don't think so. That behavior was somewhat encouraged back then, in fact. I think the only difference between now and then is that nowadays, when some teenager kills another one in a classroom in California, we here about it in MA the same day. Back in the old days, they'd never hear about something like that, period. Sorry about posting to rec.autos, but this is where it came up... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ___ / _ \ '85 Mustang GT Bob Pitas / /USH 14.13 @ 99.8 bpita@ctp.com / /| \ Up at NED, Epping, NH (Cambridge, MA) """" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ) Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",7 "Re: >> Bosox go down in smoke (Seattle 5-0) In article <1993Apr22.175312.19861@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> ec003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Wizard) writes: >In jxu@black.clarku.edu (Dark Wing Duck!!) writes: > > >>.Just had to respond to the Bosox boasts (i.e. ""Bosox win again! ...). > >See, Red Sox fans can never do anything right, in your mind, huh? If we get >excited about the Sox winning, you tell us it is going to be over soon. If >we worry that it'll be over soon, you say that we are not true fans. i am a >Sox fan and I think after what ive been through being a Sox fan, that Sox >fans are true fans. I am excited at what they are doing. So Greenwell >was horrible against Johnson, who cares, the Sox are 11-4 (11-1 with all >non-Darwin starts), what are the Mariners?? I think the Sox have the best >record in Baseball still, so they lost one, darn. > >Johnson is a quality pitcher. And not the only quality Mariner pitcher. I logged on expecting to see at least ONE congratulatory note for Chris Bosio's NO HITTER, but nary a peep. So I'll take this opportunity to note that the red feet are now 11-5 and slinking out of town without having scored a run in the last two games or even a hit in last night's gem. Not that we M's fans can compare our suffering to those of the followers of New England's long-running tragedy, but only one winning season in history is something of a burden to bear. So we'll take our joys when we can get 'em. The Mariners now have two no-hit pitchers on the staff and not coincidentally those pitchers beat the Red Sox in back to back games. jsh -- Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM ""One thing about data, it sure does cut| UUCP: ...!uunet!isc-br!thor!steveh the bulls**t."" - R. Hofferbert | Ma Bell: 509 838-8826 ",9 "Re: Internet resources In article STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU writes: >I am taking a course entitled ""Exploring Science Using Internet"". >For our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources >dealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was >wondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet >that provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that. Robert McElwaine is the authoritative source of scientific data on Internet. He can be reached alt.fan.mc-elwaine... Spiros -- Spiros Triantafyllopoulos c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com Software Technology, Delco Electronics (317) 451-0815 GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904 ""I post, therefore I ARMM"" ",14 "Licensing... >This actually supports Bill's speculation - IF there is a backdoor in >RSAREF and IF PKP is supported secretly by the NSA, then it is more >than natural that they will welcome ANY public-key implementation that >uses RSAREF and will strongly oppose themselves against ANY >implementation that doesn't. My speculation does not include or depend upon a trapdoor in RSAREF. I do not believe that RSA would consent to such. However, there are other limitation in the concept of RSAREF in which NSA has an interest. It has an interest in a limited number of implementations, i.e., targets. It has an interest in fixed key or maximum modulus size. It has a legitimate (literally) right to pursue such interests. Within bounds, it probably has a right to pursue those interests by covert means. At least it has the same right as the rest of us not to disclose all of its motives and intentions. (Institutions are not self-aware; they do not know their intentions in any meaningful sense.) William Hugh Murray, Executive Consultant, Information System Security 49 Locust Avenue, Suite 104; New Canaan, Connecticut 06840 1-0-ATT-0-700-WMURRAY; WHMurray at DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL ",11 "CUT Vukota and Pilon!!! I have been to all 3 Isles/Caps tilts at the Crap Centre this year, all Isles wins and there is no justification for Vukota and Pilon to play for the Isles. Vukota is absolutely the worst puck handler in the world!! He couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a banjo!! Al must remember a few years back when Mick scored 3 goals in one period against the Caps in a 5-3 Isles win. I was there and was astonished as was the rest of the crowd. Wake-up Al!!! Years later he's gotten worse. He's a cheap shot artist and always ends up getting stupid/senseless penalties. I think he would make a good police officier!!! As for Pilon, he can't carry the puck out to center ice by himself. He either makes a bad pass resulting in a turnover, or he attempts to bring the puck towards the neutral zone and skates right into an opposing skater. He can't stay on his skates with most forwards or centers. He either falls down or committs a penalty. Call up somebody from Capital District AL!!!!! As far as the playoffs, the Isles are as difficult to figure out as the Caps. Two good teams with talent but so inconsistent. They should meet in the first round. The Isles seem to play up to the level of their competition so they should play well against Jersey tonite. It'll probably be another tight 1-goal game as the last 20 games hve been for the Isles. I wish when the get a lead they could continue to pour it on instead of settling back into a defensive shell and letting the opposition get back in the game. Al MUST understand he can't do with this team what he did with the 80-83 Isles. maybe Al should got to. Where is Bobby Nystrom?? Clark Gilles?? John Tonelli?? These are the kind of young minds we need behing the bench!! FIRE AL!!!! John Scialdone SCIALDONE@NSSDCA.GSFC.NASA.GOV **********When your ship comes in, first man takes the Sail******************** ",10 "Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros menon@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Ravi or Deantha Menon) writes: >aezpete@deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu () writes: >>>The penile cancer thing has been *completely* debunked...she must be >>>going to school on a South Pacific island. Tell her to check the Journal >>>or Urology for circumcision articles. I remember at least 1 on an old >>>Jewish man (cut at birth) who developed penile cancer....I mean, if the >>>cancer risk was that great, the Europe who have been circumcising like >>>crazy, too. Teaching a boy how to keep his cockhead clean is the issue: a >>>little proper hygiene goes a long way - Americans are just too hung up on >>>the penis to consider cleaning it: that's just way too much like >>>mastubation. So you have surgical intervention that is basically >>>unnecessary. >>Peter Schlumpf >>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign As I recall, it is a statistical anomaly because of the sample involved in the studies. I am certain that if it were true the Europeans would be cutting kids right & left. >First off, use some decent terms if ya don't mind. This is sci.med, not >alt.sex. >Secondly, how absolutely bogus to assume that ""American's are just too hung >up on the penis....blah,blah"". I think most American's don't care about >anything so comlicated as that. They just think it ""looks nicer"". Ask >a few of them and see what response you get. Others still opt for >circumcision due to religious traditions and beliefs. Some think it is >easier to clean. Still others do it because ""Daddy was"". I think alot do it blindly because ""Dad"" had it done. But there are many who get bamboozled into it with the bogus cancer thing. Awhile back some quack told a friend of mine that it would help prevent AIDS. Yeah...Right! (Sarchasm) >Dont' be so naive as to think American's are afraid of sexuality. Oh YEAH ? Scene: Navy boot camp DI: ""Son, you smel awful! Dont you ever clean that thing?"" Recruit: ""No Sir !"" DI: ""Why the hell NOT!"" Recruit: ""Your not sposed to touch down there?"" DI: ""Why ?"" Recruit: ""Cause thats the eye of god down there, an' your not s'posed to touch it..."" This did not happen 40 years ago, it happened 2 years ago. I think Americans are QUITE hung up about sex and the involved plumbing! ",13 "Re: sex education In article swansond@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Dennis Swanson) writes: >In article heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes: >>[...] >>When I do programs, I spend >>about half the time talking about absitinence [...] >>I find that most people who object >>to sex education actually object to the teaching *anything* other than >>abstinencne, and that IMO is just as irresponsible as only talking >>about comdom use. > >I'm under the impression that most sex ed instructors and/or policy makers >actually object to making any more than a passing reference to abstinence, >wishing to spend time only on the ""realistic"" choices. In the ""sex ed"" portion of the high school ""health"" course I took in 1984, it was impressed that the only 100% positive way to *not* get pregnant was to *not* have sex. Other methods of contraception were discussed, in the framework of a chart which showed both the _expected_ failure rate (theoretical, assumes no mistakes) and the _actual_ failure rate (based on research). Top of the chart was something like this: Method Expected Actual ------ Failure Rate Failure Rate Abstinence 0% 0% And NFP (Natural Family Planning) was on the bottom. The teacher even said, ""I've had some students tell me that they can't use anything for birth control because they're Catholic. Well, if you're not married and you're a practicing Catholic, the *top* of the list is your slot, not the *bottom*. Even if you're not religious, the top of the list is safest."" Yes, this was a public school and after Dr Koop's ""failing abstinence, use a condom"" statement on the prevention of AIDS. -jen -- #include // jenk@microsoft.com // msdos testing ",15 "Price drop on C650 within NS>I am going to be getting a C650 soon, but I don;t want Apple NS>to come out with the Cyclones and the Tempest in a month NS>and have the price drop on the system I want. I have negotiated a NS>good deal with a supplier for a C650 8/80 and I would like to jump on it, NS>but, again, I don't want the price drop to smuther me. BTW, the deal NS>I have is a C650 8/80 with mouse for $2295... does anyone know of a better NS>deal? I don't know of a better deal, but would you be willing to share your deal with the rest of us. That certainly sounds like you're getting a great deal. I'd be interested in that deal too. --- . DeLuxe. 1.26b #956s . MicroFrame: The BEST in Price and Performance! . QNet3. . The PipeLine : Atlanta, GA : Echo Mail From Around The World ---- | HAL 9000 BBS: QWK-to-Usenet gateway | Four 14400 v.32bis dial-ins | | FREE Usenet mail and 200 newsgroups! | PCBoard 14.5aM * uuPCB * Kmail | | Call +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 +--------------------------------+ | Member of EFF, ASP, ASAD * 1500MB disk * Serving Ann Arbor since 1988 | ",4 "WANTED: Grayscale dithering routine I have some color gifs which I would like to archive in a much smaller size using a grayscale palette of 16 shades. The quantization to 16 grays introduces some ugly bands in the pictures, which can be nicely eliminated by dithering. Up to now I have used XV to process the images, but now I would like to automate the procedure. The problem is that XV can't (I think) convert images automatically, and the obvious alternative PNMPLUS (PPMQUANT and PNMDITHER) don't even get close to XV's quality. PNMDITHER apparently dithers in RGB, even though the images are in grayscale. The dithering routine in XV seems to use the natural image colors for the dither. Is this or any similar routine available in the public domain? If so, where? -- Niclas Mattsson exjob-17@math.chalmers.se ",1 "Re: PUBLIC HEARINGS on Ballot Access, Vote Fraud and Other Issues Well, the message was interesting (and long), but TWICE? Oh Well. Personally, I loathe libertarianism, but my disagreement is philisophical, not tactical. Election law reform is a good idea. You would not believe what kind of stunts the creatures of the 2 party system are capable of pulling. ============================================================================ David Matthew Deane (deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu) When the words fold open, it means the death of doors; even casement windows sense the danger. (Amon Liner) ",18 "Re: Theism and Fanatism (was: Islamic Genocide) In article <16BB8D25C.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes: #In article <1r3tqo$ook@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> #frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: # #>#>|>#>#Theism is strongly correlated with irrational belief in absolutes. Irrational #>#>|>#>#belief in absolutes is strongly correlated with fanatism. #># #>#(deletion) #># #>#>|Theism is correlated with fanaticism. I have neither said that all fanatism #>#>|is caused by theism nor that all theism leads to fanatism. The point is, #>#>|theism increases the chance of becoming a fanatic. One could of course #>#>|argue that would be fanatics tend towards theism (for example), but I just #>#>|have to loook at the times in history when theism was the dominant ideology #>#>|to invalidate that conclusion that that is the basic mechanism behind it. #>#> #>#>IMO, the influence of Stalin, or for that matter, Ayn Rand, invalidates your #>#>assumption that theism is the factor to be considered. #># #>#Bogus. I just said that theism is not the only factor for fanatism. #>#The point is that theism is *a* factor. #> #>That's your claim; now back it up. I consider your argument as useful #>as the following: Belief is strongly correlated with fanaticism. Therefore #>belief is *a* factor in fanaticism. True, and utterly useless. (Note, this #>is *any* belief, not belief in Gods) #> # #Tiring to say the least. I have backed it up, read the first statement. I have read it. Conspicuous by its absence is any evidence or point. # #The latter is the fallacy of the wrong analogy. Saying someone believes #something is hardly an information about the person at all. Saying someone #is a theist holds much more information. Further, the correlation between #theists and fanatism is higher than that between belief at all and fanatism #because of the special features of theistic belief. Truth by blatant assertion. Evidence? # # #>#>Gullibility, #>#>blind obedience to authority, lack of scepticism, and so on, are all more #>#>reliable indicators. And the really dangerous people - the sources of #>#>fanaticism - are often none of these things. They are cynical manipulators #>#>of the gullible, who know precisely what they are doing. #># #>#That's a claim you have to support. Please note that especially in the #>#field of theism, the leaders believe what they say. #> #>If you believe that, you're incredibly naive. #> # #You, Frank O'Dwyer, are living in a dream world. I wonder if there is any #base of discussion left after such a statement. As a matter of fact, I think #you are ignorant of human nature. Even when one starts with something one does #not believe, one gets easily fooled into actually believing what one says. # #To give you the benefit of the doubt, prove your statement. The onus of proof is on you, sunshine. What makes you think that theist leaders believe what they say? Especially when they say one thing and do another, or say one thing closely followed by its opposite? The practice is not restricted to theism, but it's there for anyone to see. It's almost an epidemic in this country. Just for instance, if it is harder for a camel to pass thru' the eye of a needle, why is the Catholic church such a wealthy land-owner? Why are there churches to the square inch in my country? # #>#>Now, *some* #>#>brands of theism, and more precisely *some* theists, do tend to fanaticism, #>#>I grant you. To tar all theists with this brush is bigotry, not a reasoned #>#>argument - and it reads to me like a warm-up for censorship and restriction #>#>of religious freedom. Ever read Animal Farm? #>#> #>#That's a straw man. And as usually in discussions with you one has to #>#repeat it: Read what I have written above: not every theism leads to #>#fanatism, and not all fanatism is caused by theism. The point is, #>#there is a correlation, and it comes from innate features of theism. #> #>No, some of it comes from features which *some* theism has in common #>with *some* fanaticism. Your last statement simply isn't implied by #>what you say before, because you're trying to sneak in ""innate features #>of [all] theism"". The word you're groping for is ""some"". #> # #Bogus again. Not all theism as is is fanatic. However, the rest already #gives backup for the statement about the correlation about fanatism and #theism. And further, the specialty of other theistic beliefs allows them #to switch to fanatism easily. It takes just a nifty improvement in the #theology. Truth by blatant assertion. # # #>#Gullibility, by the way, is one of them. #> #>No shit, Sherlock. So why not talk about gullibility instead of theism, #>since it seems a whole lot more relevant to the case you have, as opposed #>to the case you are trying to make? #> # #Because there is more about theism that the attraction to gullible people #causing the correlation. And the whole discussion started that way by the #statement that theism is meaningfully correlated to fanatism, which you #challenged. Indeed I did. As I recall, I asked for evidence. What is the correlation of which you speak? # # #>#And to say that I am going to forbid religion is another of your straw #>#men. Interesting that you have nothing better to offer. #> #>I said it reads like a warm up to that. That's because it's an irrational #>and bogus tirade, and has no other use than creating a nice Them/Us #>split in the minds of excitable people such as are to be found on either #>side of church walls. #> # #Blah blah blah. I am quite well aware that giving everyone their rights #protects me better from fanatics than the other way round. Of course, other people are always fanatics, never oneself. Your wish to slur all theists seems pretty fanatical to me. # #It is quite nice to see that you are actually implying a connection between #that argument and the rise of fanatism. So far, it is just another of your #assertions. So? You can do it. # # #>#>|>(2) Define ""irrational belief"". e.g., is it rational to believe that #>#>|> reason is always useful? #>#>|> #>#>| #>#>|Irrational belief is belief that is not based upon reason. The latter has #>#>|been discussed for a long time with Charley Wingate. One point is that #>#>|the beliefs violate reason often, and another that a process that does #>#>|not lend itself to rational analysis does not contain reliable information. #>#> #>#>Well, there is a glaring paradox here: an argument that reason is useful #>#>based on reason would be circular, and argument not based on reason would #>#>be irrational. Which is it? #>#> #>#That's bogus. Self reference is not circular. And since the evaluation of #>#usefulness is possible within rational systems, it is allowed. #> #>O.K., it's oval. It's still begging the question, however. And though #>that certainly is allowed, it's not rational. And you claiming to be #>rational and all. #> # #Another of your assertions. No proof, no evidence, just claims. Hey - I learned it from you. Did I do good? # # #>At the risk of repeating myself, and hearing ""we had that before"" [we #>didn't hear a _refutation_ before, so we're back. Deal with it] : #>you can't use reason to demonstrate that reason is useful. Someone #>who thinks reason is crap won't buy it, you see. #> # #That is unusually weak even for you. The latter implies that my proof #depends on their opinion. Somehow who does not accept that there are #triangles won't accept Pythagoras. Wow, that's an incredible insight. #I don't have to prove them wrong in their opinion. It is possible to #show that their systems leave out useful information respectively claims #unreliable or even absurd statements to be information. Totally circular, and totally useless. # #Their wish to believe makes them believe. Things are judges by their appeal, #and not by their information. It makes you feel good when you believe that #may be good for them, but it contains zillions of possible pitfalls. From #belief despite contrary evidence to the bogus proofs they attempt. Truth by blatant assertion. I've seen as many bogus proofs of the non-existence of gods as I have of their existence. # #Rational systems, by the way, does not mean that every data has to come from #logical analysis, the point is that the evaluation of the data does not #contradict logic. It easily follows that such a system does not allows to #evaluate if its rational in itself. Yes, it is possible to evaluate that #it is rational in a system that is not rational by the fallacies of that #system, but since the validity of the axioms is agreed upon, that has as #little impact as the possibility of a demon ala Descartes. This just doesn't parse, sorry. # #So far it just a matter of consistency. I use ratiional arguments to show #that my system is consistent or that theirs isn't. The evaluation of the Nor this. #predictions does not need rationality. It does not contradict, however. # # #>#Your argument is as silly as proving mathematical statements needs mathematics #>#and mathematics are therfore circular. #> #>Anybody else think Godel was silly? #> # #Stream of consciousness typing? What is that supposed to mean? # # #>#>The first part of the second statement contains no information, because #>#>you don't say what ""the beliefs"" are. If ""the beliefs"" are strong theism #>#>and/or strong atheism, then your statement is not in general true. The #>#>second part of your sentence is patently false - counterexample: an #>#>axiomatic datum does not lend itself to rational analysis, but is #>#>assumed to contain reliable information regardless of what process is #>#>used to obtain it. #>#> #># #>#I've been speaking of religious systems with contradictory definitions #>#of god here. #># #>#An axiomatic datum lends itself to rational analysis, what you say here #>#is a an often refuted fallacy. Have a look at the discussion of the #>#axiom of choice. And further, one can evaluate axioms in larger systems #>#out of which they are usually derived. ""I exist"" is derived, if you want #>#it that way. #># #>#Further, one can test the consistency and so on of a set of axioms. #># #>#what is it you are trying to say? #> #>That at some point, people always wind up saying ""this datum is reliable"" #>for no particular reason at all. Example: ""I am not dreaming"". #> # #Nope. There is evidence for it. The trick is that the choice of an axiomatic #basis of a system is difficult, because the possibilities are interwoven. #One therefore chooses that with the least assumptions or with assumptions #that are necessary to get information out of the system anyway. I'd like to see this alleged evidence. # #One does not need to define axioms in order to define an evaluation method #for usefulness, the foundation is laid by how one feels at all (that's not #how one feels about it). I see. You have no irrational beliefs. But then, fanatics never do, do they? # #>#>|Compared the evidence theists have for their claims to the strength of #>#>|their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational. #>#> #>#>I can't agree with this until you are specific - *which* theism? To #>#>say that all theism is necessarily antirational requires a proof which #>#>I suspect you do not have. #>#> #># #>#Using the traditonal definition of gods. Personal, supernatural entities #>#with objective effects on this world. Usually connected to morals and/or #>#the way the world works. #> #>IMO, any belief about such gods is necessarily irrational. That does #>not mean that people who hold them are in principle opposed to the exercise of #>intelligence. Some atheists are also scientists, for example. #> # #They don't use theism when doing science. Or it wouldn't be science. Please #note that subjective data lend themselves to a scientific treatment as well. #They just prohibit formulating them as objective statements. Ergo, nothing is objective. Fair enough. # # #>#>|The affinity to fanatism is easily seen. It has to be true because I believe #>#>|it is nothing more than a work hypothesis. However, the beliefs say they are #>#>|more than a work hypothesis. #>#> #>#>I don't understand this. Can you formalise your argument? #># #>#Person A believes system B becuase it sounds so nice. That does not make #>#B true, it is at best a work hypothesis. However, the content of B is that #>#it is true AND that it is more than a work hypothesis. Testing or evaluating #>#evidence for or against it therefore dismissed because B (already believed) #>#says it is wronG/ a waste of time/ not possible. Depending on the further #>#contents of B Amalekites/Idolaters/Protestants are to be killed, this can #>#have interesting effects. #> #>Peculiar definition of interesting, but sure. Now show that a belief #>in gods entails the further contents of which you speak. Why aren't my #>catholic neighbours out killing the protestants, for example? Maybe they #>don't believe in it. Maybe it's the conjunction of ""B asserts B"" and #>""jail/kill dissenters"" that is important, and the belief in gods is #>entirely irrelevant. It certainly seems so to me, but then I have no #>axe to grind here. #> # #The example with your neighbours is a fallacy. That *your* neighbours don't #says little about others. And there were times when exactly that happened. Nope, it's not a fallacy. It just doesn't go to the correlation you wish to see. # #And tell me, when it is not irrelevant, why are such statements about #Amalekites and Idolaters in the Holy Books? Please note that one could #edit them out when they are not relevant anymore. Because gods don't err? #What does that say about that message? Excuse me - THE Holy Books? # #And how come we had theists saying genocides ordered by god are ok. A god #is the easiest way to excuse anything, and therefore highly attracting to #fanatics. Not to mention the effect interpretation by these fanatics can #have on the rest of the believers. Happens again and again and again. A god is neither the easiest way to excuse anything, nor the only way. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Re: Stop putting down white het males. From: baba@Tymnet.com (Duane Hentrich) -BTW, I'm a WALC (white aryan lapsed catholic) - --- -d'baba Duane M. Hentrich baba@Tymnet.Com - I would like to go on record as objecting to Mr. Hentrich calling himself an Aryan. The word `Aryan' is of Sanskrit origin and occurs first in the Hindu scripture, the Rigveda. It seems to have been a tribal term but may have had connotations of good character. Such connotations are quite explicit in the sayings of the Buddha who called his religion the eightfold Aryan path. The word was borrowed by the German scholar Max Mueller who used it as a synonym for `indo-european', but then the Nazis proceeded to steal it and started pretending that `aryan' is synonymous with `nordic' which seems highly unlikely. The people who originally called themselves aryas, the Iranians, Noprth Indians, the Afghans and possibly the Kurds, are none of them nordic. So the use of the word by Westerners, though meant with apparent good humor in this case, is nontheless inappropriate. The only Westerners who may have some claim to call themselves Aryans (by descent) are the Celts who seem to have wor- shipped a god called Aryaman who is mentioned in the Rigveda. If you want to check what I am saying, look at Mallory's book, ``In search of the Indo-Europeans"" or, just look at the Encyclopedia Britannica. The reason this usage is offensive is that most of Ancient Indian literature as well as religion is directly or inderectly due to the Aryans and for Westerners to butt in is really not nice, not to mention the horrible things done by Germans to Jews, using a word to which the Germans have no clear claim. Rohit Parikh ",18 "Re: CTX I started a similar thread about a month ago, and got many replies. The summary: CTX 14"": Nasty, low quality. Avoid. CTX 15"" Proscan: Not as good as some other makes; however, cheap. Main problem seems poor quality control. Some reported pincushioning (the problem I had), others poor focus, etc, etc. I complained about mine and it was 're-tuned' (I dodn't even pay shipping) and returned to me in 2 days. It's now clear, well-focussed and has no pincushioning or barrel distortion at all. I'm very happy with it, and the digital controls and mode memory are nice. Certainly, a Trinitron (say) would be much nicer, but that's well out of my price range. Conclusion: If you're on a budget, get one and be prepared to send it back if it's not perfect. It probably won't be when you get it, but has good potential. Chris ",3 "Re: U.S. Government and Science and Technolgy Investment In article pgf@srl03.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes: >mccolm@darwin.math.usf.edu. (Gregory McColm) writes: >>In article conor@owlnet.rice.edu (Conor Frederick Prischmann) writes: >>>In article <1srfii$79k@suntan.eng.usf.edu> mccolm@darwin.math.usf.edu. (Gregory McColm) writes: >>>Huh? Please state your criteria for selecting the ""greatest philosopher"" >>>title. P.S. Ever read any Nietzsche? >>Greatest = most likely to be remembered five hundred years hence. >>I must admit that that makes many of my personal favorites not >>that great. I make no comment on Nietzche except to remark that >>he was no Immanuel Kant. Interpret that cryptic remark as you >>please. >Some people have appended that remark, that Nietzche was no Kant, >with ""thankfully."" I haven't read enough of either to comment, although >everyone tells me I should read Nietzche. I would have to say that the ""greatest philosopher"" title would have to go to Plato since the whole enterprise of philosophy was essentially defined by him. Although he got most of his answers wrong, he did definitively identify what the important questions are. I think it was Descartes who said that ""All philosophy is just a footnote to Plato."" If I were to choose which philosopher made the most important advances in human knowledge over his lifetime, that's simple...it is Aristotle. This is so much the case that many simply refer to him as ""the philosopher"". Regarding Nietzsche, he's one of the most entertaining, although since his ideas were so fragmented (and since his life was cut short) it is doubtful that his influence as a philosopher is likely to be very extensive 500 years from now. They'll probably still be reading him in 500 years though. As for ""modern"" philosophers, I would have to say that Kant was the most influential since he had such a strong influence on almost everyone who came after him (and unfortunately, they maintained his errors and amplified them over time). I would say that the most influential ""american"" philosopher would have to be Dewey. But as to the question of what philosopher will be most highly regarded in 500 years, it may very well be Ayn Rand (who in every important respect was ""American"", but was born in Russia). But I guess that remains to be seen. --Brian ",14 "FOR SALE: Airline ticket for 48 States + Canada FOR SALE: Northwest Airline Fly-Write ticket for travel within the 48 states and Canada from anywhere in the country. 2 One Way - $200 (each) 1 Round Trip - $350 This ticket has no restrictions, and is fully transferable. However, travel has to be completed buy June 4. email: arvind@acuson.com ",6 "Re: Is it good that Jesus died? jasons@atlastele.com (Jason Smith) writes: >bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes: >= >= And I felt torn when I began to disagree with a lot of what the Bible >= (and my priests) told me; > >Did it start getting a little uncomfortable? Did your style start feeling a >bit cramped? Yes, that's exactly what I felt. My heart just felt that what I was being taught was *wrong* -- a basically good message, but framed in errors. I could not with a clear conscience accept that women were somehow not equal to men, that homosexuals are ""guilty"" of their lifestyle, that pride in one's work is a bad thing, that Jesus died for me -- I don't want ANYBODY to die for me, especially as an impersonal act where the person can't possibly even *know* me well enough to really know if I'm worth dying for or not. I was never able to accept the bit about Jesus's death being a good thing. If that means that I'm just not comprehending a basic message of Christianity, then so be it. Maybe I'm just not compatible with Christianity. I just refuse to follow rules blindly, and since I can't even convince myself that your god even EXISTS in the way you describe it, I've got to just follow my own conscience in these matters. >I know how that goes. Knowing I couldn't and didn't want to >live up to those impossibleand rather incovenient rules are what kept me >outside, too. Don't think that my morals are shoddy or nonexistent just because I don't believe in your god. I will not steal, and I will not murder -- not because I fear divine repudiation, but because these just *aren't* in my character. You may think there's nothing keeping me from just running around on a murdering spree, stealing things when I'm able, insulting people for the heck of it, because I'm not answerable to anyone; but you'd be wrong. I'm answerable to myself. A life like that would be a cheap life; I happen to want to earn respect in myself. >'Till I met the Man, that is. My initial break with Christianity came after a lot of soul-searching and a lot of wondering why I could no longer feel the 'presence' of God with me. I finally decided that I had once ""felt"" this presence just as I had ""felt"" my mighty teddy bear beside me when I was a little tyke, protecting me from the monsters under the bed -- that I had believed in God just as I had believed in the teddy bear, as something of an emotional crutch to protect me from perceived dangers. Since then, I've never abandoned the possibility that maybe your supernatural trinity does exist. But there are a few times when, in my darkened room by my bed, I have set aside everything I believe for a moment and called out to whatever's out there, because I want to know the truth even if it means abandoning everything I know. And I have not yet received an answer. >= Only when I truly listened to myself, body and soul, did I realize >= that I could no longer honestly keep up the charade of being >= Christian. There is a higher truth in the universe, and Christianity >= just ain't it. > >Any suggestions on what (or who or where) it might be, and why? Nope. It may well be unknowable. Scientists have suggested that the universe may be finite and wrap around on itself (the three-dimensional universe may be mapped onto a four-dimensional supersphere in the same way you can map a two-dimensional plane onto a three-dimensional sphere; see _Sphereland_, the sequel to _Flatland_, for more thoughts on this). Our entire universe might just be an electron in a four- dimensional universe, which in turn may only be an insignificant speck in a universe above that, and so on and so forth until the variables become too much for us to even speculate on. That is, there's no possible way for us to know exactly how we came to be, so there's no reason at all to believe that your God exists nor had anything to do with it. >""OK,"" you may say. ""So now, if I'm just being good, am I doing good enough?"" > >That's for you to answer. If you feel you're doing fine, then go ahead and >ignore us foolish little Christians. We can present what we've seen and >experienced (providing our witness), but it isn't up to us to make that seed >sprout. Christians have provided me with nothing except quotes from your holy book, and all sorts of tactics to try to get me to believe: guilt trips, insinuations that I'm without morals, arguments from disbelief (""how can you possibly believe that God *doesn't* exist?""), and so forth. All I'm asking is for you to convince me. I want to be convinced, but it's not going to be easy. >So much as you don't like what we're ""selling"", there just may be someone >out there that can identify with it. Methinks you could give us all a >lesson in tolerance and back off. Having had years upon years of contact with your religion from both the inside and the outside, I view it as harmful in many ways. It preys on people who want to find meaning in their lives, and once it's got these people, it teaches them to have pity (and sometimes starkly intolerant) of others who do not share these views. Maybe you'll say that your religion doesn't teach that -- but I've got to judge Christianity from the Christians I know. I feel that it is entirely possible and good to have faith in one's self, and to be a positive influence on society for no better reason than that. So I hope that my words in this newsgroup will at least make some people think. I want Christians to realize that there are perfectly valid lifestyles and opinions that have nothing to do with their deity whatsoever, and I want people who are considering Christianity to realize that Christianity does not hold the sole key to a happy, fulfilled life. I have known some very nice Christians who have done some very nice things. I think what sets these people apart from the general masses is that they recognize that their religious beliefs may be wrong, and they know the weaknesses of their religion, yet they still decide to believe, but they keep their beliefs to themselves and do not think any less of people who don't agree with them. >Obviously, the debate on the veracity and reliability of the Source of the >Christian's faith is far from conclusive, notwithstanding how vehemently we >propose otherwise. Precisely my point. You've still not given me a reason to be a Christian instead of a Buddhist or a Moslem... >= The nice thing about religion, if you lose yourself deeply enough in >= it, is that eventually you'll be able to feel justified in most >= anything you want to do. > >Y'know your right. Fortunately for everyone around me, I'm not religious. >I'm a Christian. ... just as the Moslems aren't religious, and the Buddhists aren't religious. Who *is* religious, then? -- _/_/_/ Brian Kendig Je ne suis fait comme aucun /_/_/ bskendig@netcom.com de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire _/_/ n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent. / The meaning of life Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre. / is that it ends. -- Rousseau ",19 "Re: New Encryption Algorithm > Well, actually, this one's easy. It's their job. The NSA is >supposed to develop cryptosystems. If the government chooses to go >ahead and sell those cryptosystems to the masses, so be it. Ah, but developing cryptosystems which are specificially designed to protect the government's domestic spying capabilities takes them beyond that mandate, into the forbidden field of domestic wiretapping. ",11 "Tickets for sale My brother purchased baseball tickets for Texas Rangers vs Toronto Bluejays in July, but he was unable to get vacation days to get there. Is anyone interested in purchasing the following: Arlington Stadium Arlington,Texas, Texas Rangers vs. Toronto Bluejays Thursday, July 22 Friday, July 23 4 tickets, section 103 ""Helmet Night"" $14 each 4 tickets, section 305 $14 each If you want them all, the total is $112.00 Please contact me over e-mail, or directly to my brother: Randy Hollister 19 Rosemont Lane Streator, IL 61364 815/672-5265 My brother would be eternally grateful for someone to purchase these tickets! Thank you! J. Broocks knossos@u.washington.edu ",9 "Re: how to search for bad memory chips. In article david@c-cat.UUCP (Dave) writes: >i came upon this idea i would like to share with everyone. > >to check for bad memory chips > >1. create a boot disk with emm386 himem.sys and ramdrive.sys in the > config/autoexec.bat. > >2. boot the PC to create a RAM drive as large as possible. > >3. use a disk repair utility ( I use NDD ). Run it on the RAM > drive, yes it will run, its only a device driver > >4. run 1000 or so passes, they go very quick > >5. if your machine fails, there is a definate bad memory chip > >6. if your machine passes, there is a conflict with programs you > are loading in memory. ... It's an interesting idea, but the worst-case data patterns developed to test magnetic media are totally different than the patterns used to detect common faults in memory chips. -- Bob Nichols AT&T Bell Laboratories rnichols@ihlpm.ih.att.com ",3 "Sabres-Bruins Buffalo fans: Some people in the discussion group, as well as ""commentator Al"" on ESPN, believe that game 3 is critical for the Sabres. HELLOOOO!!!!! The Sabres are AHEAD 2 games to 0, not behind. As a life-long Sabres fan, I am well aware of their ability to choke, but let's not exaggerate that. As long as the Sabres win one of the next 2 games (be it game 3 OR game 4), they are still in good shape (ahead 3 games to 1), with game 6 to be played at Buffalo. If they lose games three AND four, then start worrying. Game 3 is critical for Boston, not Buffalo. Rob Andolina randolin@polisci.umn.edu ",10 "RE: Abortion To: hsims@vax.clarku.edu From: anthony.landreneau@ozonehole.com HS>Do you also think we shouldn't fund treatment for heart disease, since after HS>all, those people are in that situation because of their lifestyle HS>(overeating, lack of exercise, etc)? What about skin cancer patients HS>(tanning), lung cancer patients (smoking), car accident victims (driving)? Man Heather, you are trying to make me think again. First, heart disease, we are all going to die. To answer your question above, why should people who are responsible pay for the irresponsible acts of others? One more time, if you are going to engage in an act (eating, watching the tube, smoking, drinking, driving (drinking and driving) you should be responsible for your actions and the conquences of that action. HS>Why limit yourself to just situations which are related to sexual behavior? I'am not, it is just that babies are dieing and I need to move on that right now. Do one thing right and do it well. HS>Shouldn't we make all the people mentioned above take all the responsibility HS>for their situation and not ask you to pay for it, since they too chose the HS>course they led? Couldn't have said it better. Anthony * SLMR 2.1 * Elvis has left the Room! ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",19 "Re: Mac oriented BBSs I'm also interested in Mac based BBS, but not in Chicago. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could post a list of BBSs in the LA area. Preferably (818) but also (213). Thanks. Dan ",4 "Re: Best Homeruns In article <1qn6tqINNmnf@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes: > >the best home run i have *ever* seen came off, believe it or not, >Roger Clemens (sorry, Val) a couple of years ago. he threw a ball to >Incaviglia which was literally at Inky's neck, and he absolutely >hammered the crap out of it. after the swing, Clemens nonchalantly >motioned for a new ball--he didn't even turn around to look, or >even get upset. the ball hit the lights in the left-field standard, >some 70 or so feet about the Green Monster (over 100 feet above the >ground total!) > >truly an amazing shot. I agree. Home runs off Clemens are always memorable. Kinda like eclipses and hurricanes. They don't happen very often. Cheers, -Valentine ",9 "Problems with Toshiba 3401 CDROM Hi! I recently purchased the Toshiba 3401 CDROM. I own an Adaptec 1542B SCSI card, and I have so far failed to get the CDROM to work under DOS. It works very well under OS/2, so I know that the drive is not faulty. In my config.sys, I have aspi3dos.sys, aspidisk.sys, aspicd.sys. In my autoexec.bat, I have MSCDEX, which came with DOS 6.0. MSCDEX seems to find and install the drive as drive F:, but when I switch to that drive and try a dir, I get an error message telling me the drive is not ready or something like that. The CDROM is locked too, and the adaptec utilities don't seem to recognize that I have a CDROM at that point. Has anyone ever had this problem? Is there something abvious that I am missing? And finally, I was wondering if anyone using this setup could kindly post his/her config.sys and autoexec.bat. Thank you very much! ******************************************************************************* * imj1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu Imad ""Hexabyte"" Jureidini * * The Ultimate Knight, Grand Priest of the Secrets of the Undefined. * ******************************************************************************* ",3 "Building a UV flashlight Yes, I know it sounds crazy. Call it an urge. Call it what you want. Just don't ask why :-) Anyway, I'd like to build a UV flashlight, cheaply. ""flashlight"" means it should be reasonably portable, but could have a power pack if necessary. My main question is the bulb: where can I get UV bulbs? Do they need a lot of power? etc., etc. I'm not too concerned with whether it's long-wave or short-wave (but hey, if anyone has a cheap source of bulbs, I'll take both). One other thing: a friend of mine mentioned something about near-UV light being cheaper to get at than actual UV light. Does anyone know what he was referring to? Thanks much. -- John Hawkinson jhawk@panix.com ",12 "SUMMARY: Borland/Microsoft Database C Libraries Well, I'm amazed at how successful this exercise was. I received 20 responses and 4 requests for summary. Thanks to everyone who made it possible. On my own I was able to find out about Codebase, Accsys, and Q+E. Codebase and Accsys are C libraries without SQL. Q+E is a Windows application that can be communicated through Windows DDE calls, where you send a SQL string and receive the results. Most people wrote to tell me about the Paradox Engine from Borland. Other products mentioned were: Microsoft's ODBC, Accsys, Quadbase, Codebase, RBASE, and Q+E. Only ODBC, Quadbase, RBASE, and Q+E have SQL. For myself, I decided on Codebase, mostly because it has an ANSI C portability version that runs under DOS, UNIX, etc, and includes the source code, and portability is important in my application. It works with DBASE, FoxPro, or Clipper files. However, I feel that Microsoft's ODBC looks very promising. It's mostly a formalisation of building and submitting SQL queries, and formatting query results. As the responses say, it's available via ftp, except it's effectively unusuable without two manuals: the ""ODBC Programmer's Reference"" and the ""ODBC SDK Guide"". Moreover, ODBC doesn't actually interpret SQL and liase with databases, that's up to drivers that should be provided by database manufacturers. Also, it's Windows only (it's actually an extension to the Windows SDK). Nevertheless, it's a start at a SQL interface standard, and should make life interesting in the future. Here's my original post, followed by the responses, separated by a line of asterisks (*). > Does anyone know if Borland or Microsoft have libraries for accessing > their respective databases (Paradox, FoxPro) from within C programs? > I'd really like to be able to build a SQL query string and pass it > to a function which returns the query results in some format. Failing > that, any other access would still be better than nothing. > > I'd also like to hear of third party libraries for doing the same thing. > > If other people are interested, I'll prepare a summary of what I'm > told and post it. > > Thanks to all. **************************************************************************** Borland has a product called Paradox Engine that does just what you want. The current version is 3.0, which is fully compatible with (ack) Paradox 4.0. (Why the versions are different, I don't know. PD Engine 2.0 was compatible with Pdox 3.0 and 3.5...). It consists of a rather broad library of functions for accesing database files from both Pascal (I think turbo Pascal 5.5 and up) and C (I think either Microsoft or Borland). Now.. reading the box... it's ""Borland Paradox Engine & Database Frameworks"". Works with any Borland C/C++, Mocrosoft C 6.01 or later, Turbo C++ for Windows, Turbo Pascal 6.0 or later, TP for Windows 1.0 or later. For Framework applications, BC++ 3.0 or later or MS C/C++ 7.0. It does have support for object useage... I haven't had a real chance to really use it myself... but it looks fairly complete... I'm planning to use it this summer. -Rick -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Rick Osterberg osterber@husc.harvard.edu 617-493-7784 617-493-3892 | | 2032 Harvard Yard Mail Center Cambridge, MA 02138-7510 USA | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ **************************************************************************** Borland has a product which is called Paradox Engine. I do not know about MS. The paradox engine I know very well, and it definitiely not a replacement for SQL, but it will enable you to save and restore records, has locking, et al. Supposedly the Paradox for Windows was impemented on top of it. --------------------------------------------------------- Charles Parker Phone.(800) 669 9165 Technical Support (617) 498 3321 CenterLine Software, Inc. Fax.(617) 868 6655 cparker@centerline.com cyberspace momma, don't let yer children grow up to be ^ cowboys ... --------------------------------------------------------- **************************************************************************** I know Borland has a library of routines for accessing PARADOX from within a C program. They recently came out with version 3.0. This works with both Borland and Microsoft's C compiler. shailesh bhobe (708) 979-7101 att!psp!smb2 **************************************************************************** MS has put their ODBC SDK into the public domain; it's _big_ (I believe 1.8 MB), but worth downloading over a fast link. Look at ftp.uu.net in vendor/microsoft/odbc-sdk. Also some companies are starting to provide SQL engines; I just got one for RBASE, not exactly cheap at $450, but it allows programs in C or VBASIC (under DOS or Windows) to talk to data bases using SQL functions in your code. hth Walter Knopf Fermilab knopf@fnal.fnal.gov **************************************************************************** Check out the ODBC toolikt from Microsoft. It is available on ftp.uu.net:vendor/microsoft/odbc-sdk. This is the way that we've chosen to access databases from all of our apps. mj -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PPPPP SSSSSIIIIII Specialists in MS-Windows and Windows-NT Development | | PP PPSS II Call for information about our OOA/OOD tool: OOAiD. | | PPPPP SSSS II Michaeljon Miller mikem@apertus.com | | PP SS II Proficient Solutions, Inc. 612-860-2181 | | PP SSSSS IIIIII 2877 Holmes Ave So. #5 Minneapolis, MN 55408 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ **************************************************************************** Borland sells the ""Paradox Engine"" which is a C language interface to Paradox, dBase, Btrieve, ans ASCI files. They also sell ""Database Frameworks"" which includes the engine plus a collection (with source) of C++ classes for using the engine. -- Earl Roethke eroethke@ems.cdc.com **************************************************************************** I actualy have Paradox Engine. It is a library of functions (large model) for accessing the Paradox's databases. It seems to be working fine, but I never did try it thouroughly. It costs ~200$. Hope it will help you... From: David Lefebvre **************************************************************************** Borland provides a database lib called Paradox Engine which can access and use the database files aswell as many other things. Gary. -- ``````````` bell@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au ````````````````````````````````````` | Gary Bell | | Department of Robotics and Digital Technology | |Faculty of Computing, Caulfield Campus, Monash University, Australia | **************************************************************************** Paradox Engine is the library for Paradox . Artur Babecki artur@ii.uj.edu.pl **************************************************************************** Borland sells the Paradox Engine -- which has all the Paradox calls in it. Its hardly SQL though. You can do searches on key fields and on indivual fields, but no comparison operators like <, >=.... so its pretty painful (in my opinion) do do anything besides simple retrieval and inserts/updates. I'm currently using it (I have an eval copy..) and I've linked it in to some entry screens I've written. The Engine library adds about 100K to the size of the program, but you can load it as an overlay using Borland's VROOM manager. Now Borland claims that later versions of the engine will have SQL support but they don't really expect it till late in the year... or even next year They are trying to get thrid parties to help out.. If you have any other questions -- let me know... Mike Kamlet mike@vpnet.chi.il.us **************************************************************************** Yes, borland sells their Paradox Engine separately. It has C, C++, and Pascal interfaces, although the underlying interface is in 'C'. Well at least for version 2.0 of the Engine which I have (costed $99 at Egghead). They now have version 3.0 of the engine, and a separate C++ class package for it. -- Michael D. Kersenbrock ADC Kentrox - Portland, Oregon michaelk@kentrox.com uunet!kentrox!michaelk **************************************************************************** I've used AccSys for Paradox (new version is almost ready for Paradox 4.0) to access Paradox files from C. Its pretty good. Not SQL though. Have heard of Borland Paradox Engine or some such which is supposed to do likewise, but not sure of what it is exactly. Hope this helps, good luck! chris From: fernand@slinky.cs.nyu.edu (Christopher Fernandes) **************************************************************************** Borland sells their ""Paradox Engine (3.0)"". It's a library of functions for accessing paradox DB files. It comes with libraries for: MS C 7.0 BCC 3.1 Turbo Pascal (v??) and I believe it comes with Turbo Pascal/Win libraries as well. The C libraries come in both DOS and Windows flavors (the win stuff being dll's). When I got it, it also came with Crystal Reports which is a graphical report generator. It allows you to create a generic form and use it within a compiled program using Pdox Engine. I don't know if they still offer it or what the current price is, I paid something like $50-$60 for an upgrade from the earlier version though... Hope this helps... -David Taylor --- | ->> The Commander <<-- | It is easier to change the | |Internet: gt2847c@prism.gatech.edu| specification to fit the program | | Also: dtaylor@cfd.gatech.edu | than vice-versa. | | And: root@cfd.gatech.edu | -Author Unknown (but very wise :-) | **************************************************************************** If you want to do SQL from within your programs, check out QuadBase. I don't have their address oops -- yes I do! : QuadBase Systems, Inc. 790 Lucerne Dr #51 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 (USA) phone: 408-738-6989 (voice) 408-738-6980 (fax) Ask for the SQL/Win demo disk. It looked good to me (I have a background in embedded SQL in Ingres -- this looked real similar). It's a little expensive, but if you order the demo and then just wait they will probably send you a special offer that'll probably run about $500 US. Good luck! Best, Tom DeLosh From: delosh@emunix.emich.edu (Tom Delosh) **************************************************************************** Borland has the Paradox Engine library. It has libraries for both C and Pascal to access Paradox files under DOS/Windows. But for Paradox, I believe you'd have buy have the SQL Link since Pdox itself isn't SQL compliant. I've used the engine for over a year now and have been pretty satisfied with it. Under DOS, it's a real pig. It tacks on about 120K to the size of your programs. tim ma associate programmer university of utah email: tim@src.cppa.utah.edu **************************************************************************** I don't know about Microsoft, but Borland sells the Paradox Engine for C/C++ & Pascal (in one package). And if you want dBase compatible files there is a library called CodeBase from Sequiter software that works with C/C++. From: davidr@rincon.ema.rockwell.com (David J. Ray) **************************************************************************** We're using Q+E database libraries to do what you describe. It's a set of DLL's accessed through a common API to talk to most of the major database formats. We're using it to build an application that queries several databases using SQL queries. _All_ access using Q+E is done using SQL. The package is available through Microway in Melbourne. I believe it is produced by Pioneer Systems in the US. We have no association with Microway or Pioneer Systems other than being satisfied customers. Feel free to mail me for further information. Chris (Programming for NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Hutchinson Box U302 Research Programmer University of New England chris@sulaw.law.su.OZ.AU Armidale NSW 2351 (067) 727 014 **************************************************************************** Paradox Engine 3.0 provides a complete set of C libraries for accessing Paradox tables. However, it seems that it supports only Borland/Turbo C and MicroSoft C. When I tried to compile the engine's sample applications with the Waterloo WATCOM C/C++ (32-bit) compiler, it complains that the library file LLIBCE.LIB is missing even though I am quite certain that the file is NOT part of WATCOM C or the engine. Anybody have any success with other C compilers? Ron.K.Ng@hydro.on.ca -------------------- **************************************************************************** I'm currently developing an app. with Borland's ""Paradox Engine for C"" (it also comes in Pascal), which has recently gone to version 3.0 (I.e., PX Engine 3.0 is compatible with Paradox 4.0, and downward compat. w/3.5). There are indeed C libs for Fox access, but I can't think of the names offhand - I'm sure someone has already written you in that regard - (I think I just saw an add for a Fox lib in the ""C Users Journal"", which is a good place to look for this type of package in general, by the way). I've been paying my dues to learn a lot of the quirks of PX Eng. over the past year - wouldn't recommend it for a complex multiuser app.--but I'm staying with it for now--it's like a bad marriage: I've got too much time invested in learning and work-arounds! But if your interest is limited to a simple single-user interface (you want to build your own SQL engine, I take it), PX Engine will do the job easily - it doesn't sound like you'll be bumping into any of the gotchas. If you do, write me; I may be able to point you in the right direction. From: raymond@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us (raymond) **************************************************************************** Borland has a ""Paradox Engine and Database Framework 3.0"" which gives you a ""C"" (and assembler?) API to Paradox databases. This is part of ""BOCA"" -- Borland's Object Component Architecture. They have technical briefs on BOCA, PdoxEng, and other products of theirs. From: jdm@jumbo.Read.TASC.COM (James D. McNamara) ------------------- James D. McNamara | TASC -------------------- 55 Walkers Brook Drive | Reading, MA 01867-3238 | 617-942-2000x2948 **************************************************************************** -- John Bongiovanni, Systems Analyst, Orbital Engine Company, Perth, Australia oecjtb@oec4.orbital.dialix.oz.au, bongo@alumni.caltech.edu Opinions expressed are my own and not those of my organisation. ",2 "Re: Sexual Proposition = Sexual Harassment? In article <1pkkidINNsrj@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr) writes: > >In article <1993Mar30.181636.22756@pmafire.inel.gov>, >cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook) said: > >> A real world data point: A person has a much stronger legal claim for >> harrassment (sexual or otherwise) if they make it clear to the >> offender that their behaviour is unwanted. If the behaviour persists, >> harrassment is much easier to demonstrate, due to the fact that the >> offender knew that the behaviour was unwanted. > >No argument here... my original query regarded the question of why the >_first_ sexual proposition made by Person A to Person B would be >considered to be sexual harassment by some/many people. (Assuming, of >course, that there does not exist a power relationship between A and B >such that the proposition carries strong implications of extortion right >from Word One.) I can only say that those people are wrong. The word harass means to irritate or torment persistently; I'd hardly consider one time to fall under the definition of persistent. Additionally, there is no basis to assume the behaviour is unwanted, unlike an illegal proposition. > >> Of course, I think the original question of offering money for sex is >> inarguably harrassment, because the activity is illegal, and could be >> presumed to be unwanted by the average citizen. > >I have to take issue with this viewpoint... given that (a) prostitution >is a victimless crime and (b) there are literally millions of Americans >who participate in some sort of victimless activities which the state >has defined to be criminal (e.g., prostitution, obscenity, gambling, >using certain recreational drugs, having non-mercenary sex with persons >not one's spouse in certain states, having ""unnatural"" sex with people >regardless of marital status or exchange of money in certain states, >etc.), I'd have to say that the idea that an activity may be presumed to >be unwanted by the average citizen merely because it is illegal is the >sort of sophistry that only a judge could indulge in with a straight >face. (He said, speaking as a law student who's read his share of >judicial opinions in which reality was not only denied but, in fact, >actually inverted in order to make the universe conform to the writer's >politics.) I was speaking from a legalistic viewpoint. What you say is true, but the law, in order to make what little sense it manages to make, has to make *some* assumptions. Assuming that an illegal activity is unwanted by the average citizen I think is reasonable. Certainly, I would need a preponderance of evidence on the side of the propositioner that there was a reasonable belief that the proposition was welcome. The number of people who participate in ""victimless"" crimes notwithstanding, the fact reamins that under the law, the activity is illegal. To presume that the proposition *is* welcome simply because a large number of people indulge in it is the type of sophistry only a lawyer could indulge in with a straight face. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...Dale Cook ""Any town having more churches than bars has a serious social problem."" ---Edward Abbey The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",18 "Re: Should liability insurance be required? In article <1993Apr14.125209.21247@walter.bellcore.com> fist@iscp.bellcore.com (Richard Pierson) writes: >Lets get this ""No Fault"" stuff straight, I lived in NJ >when NF started, my rates went up, ALOT. Moved to PA >and my rates went down ALOT, the NF came to PA and it >was a different story. If you are sitting in a parking >lot having lunch or whatever and someone wacks you guess >whose insurance pays for it ? give up ? YOURS. Only if you have a weeny insurance company. Unless it's some stupid PA law. I know that if some jerk hits me while I'm in a parking lot, if my insruance company doesn't sue his (or his doesn't immediately say, 'Yes, it's his fault') I'll sure him myself and tell my insurance company to go to hell if they raise my rates. -- Andy Infante | You can listen to what everybody says, but the fact remains | '71 BMW R60/5 | that you've got to get out there and do the thing yourself. | DoD #2426 | -- Joan Sutherland | ==============| My opinions, dammit, have nothing to do with anyone else!!! | ",8 "Re: Iridology - Any credence to it??? In article <9304261811.AA07821@DPW.COM> Janice Price, jprice@dpw.com writes: >How much can you tell about a person's health by looking into their eyes? By looking at the iris (iridology) - virtually nothing. Looking at the retina allows one to visualise the small blood vessels and is helpful in assessing various systemic diseases, hypertension and diabetes for example. Don Mackie - his opinion UM will disavow ",13 "Re: Monitors - Nanao? In article johnn@eskimo.com (John Navitsky) writes: >Hello, I've been following discussions on 17"" monitors in >comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware and noted that the Nanao seems to get very good >reviews. I'm interested in getting more information about Nanao's products >as well as some others that may fit the bill. From the May Computer Shopper magazine: Nanao F550i Nanao T560i Tube Manufacturer Mitsubishi Sony Trinitron Active Screen Size (diag) 15.5"" 16.25"" Maximum Resolution 1280x1024 1280x1024 Video Bandwidth (Mhz) 80 120 Min/Max Vertcl scan rate (KHz) 55/90 55/90 Min/Max Horiz scan rate (KHz) 30/65 30/80 Dot Pitch (mm) 0.28 0.26 Sugg. List Price $1749 $2699 Street Price $1059 $1690 Both have brightness, contrast, h & v positioning, h & v size, h & v convergence, and color (front panel and digital). Also a front panel degaussing control. ",3 "Looking for AUDIO/VIDEO/COMPUTER/FURNITURE items Unless otherwise noted, I am mainly interested in USED items. If you have (any of) the following for sale, please contact me: EMail mbeck@vtssi.vt.edu Phone (703)552-4381 USMail Michael Beck 1200 Progress Street #5500E Blacksburg, Virginia 24060 Please give as much info as possible (brand, age, condition, etc) ~~~~~~~~~~WANTED as of 10AM, 4/27/93~~~~~~~~~~ COMPUTER EQUIP: 1 CHEAP (<$100) tape drive - pretty much any kind for IBM (Used) 1 Memory expansion card for PS/2 Model 50Z 1 Memory for PS/2 Model 50Z (New or Used) 1 High Density (1.2 mb) 5 1/4 disk drive EXTERNAL NON-COMPUTER EQUIP: 1 TV - 27"" or bigger, stereo 1 VCR - 4 Heads, stereo 1 Receiver - 100 Watts or more w/ Dolby Prologic Surround Sound capability 1 Bed - Full or Queen sized - LOCAL OFFERS only, please 1 Desk - LOCAL OFFERS only, please due to shipping constraints ",6 "Re: A Point for Helmet Law is a Point for MC B In article <5967@prcrs.prc.com> terry@prcrs.prc.com (Terry Cunningham) writes: >In article <1993Apr12.223911.11008@rtsg.mot.com>, svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes: >> >> Oh, banning motorcycles is not *actually* reasonable. It is only >> reasonable in the eyes of a misinformed and misunderstanding public. >> >> Or, conversely, your attitude could seem blind and apathetic. >> > >I know of no law, either on the books or proposed, that bans motorcycles >from any place that i want to go to. > Motorcycles are not allowed on th 17 mile drive at pebble Beach. Jolly Roger ",8 "Re: Portland earthquake archau@saturn.wwc.edu (Austin C Archer) writes: >I am interested in views about the non-event of May 3. Seriously, how can a >Christian discriminate between ""messages from God"" which are to be taken >seriously, and those which are spurious? Is there a useful heuristic which >would help us avoid embracing messages which, by their non-fulfillment are >proven to be false, thus causing the name of Christ to be placed in >disrepute? Is this a problem at all? >I believe that a careful understanding of scripture can help us here. It >seems to me that anytime we are proven by events to be mistaken, it points >to a serious failure in understanding God's will. It should result in a >reevaluation of what we accept as truth. >I must hasten to add that I was always skeptical, even cynical, about >these ""prophesies"" as I tend to be concerning all such. But clearly, many >Christians put much stock in them. If the Church represents Christ in the >world, then Christians must avoid being made the laughing-stock of the >world, lest we dishonor Him. Further, the more often we cry ""wolf"", the >less seriously we tend to be taken. >Any comments? Good point -- it is very true that these ""false"" predictions are dangerous--we are warned (more than once) in scripture about false prophtets. However, as is often the case with other issues, one cannot let those who falsly report such ""visions"" as a reason against believing in any of them (I did not get the impression you were asserting this, by the way...I consider my response not so much a response to your posting but a response to the topic as a whole). Example: The Appearances of Mary at Fatima, Portugal in 1917. Among other things, she predicted the conversion of Russia to Atheism (something that happened less than a year later w/ the Bolshevik revolution). She also predicted the second world war (that is, predicte predicted that it would occur during the papacy of a certain pope, who was not the current one. It happened just like she said.) She warned there would be ""fire in the sky"" as a warning that the second world war was about to start. About a week before Germany invaded, weathermen (and women, I suppose) all over Europe, from England to Spain to Eastern Europe, reported the most spectacular reddish color in the sky ever recorded. To this day some try to explain it off as the northern lights, and the relation to Mary's prediction simply coincidence. You all can decide for yourselves. Mary predicted that the Atheistic Russia would spread her evils all over the world and persecute religion. She said many other things as well, too numerous to list here. Every single one has been realized. One can only use the term ""coincidence"" so many times in the same explanation before its use becomes ridiculous. SO...yes, there are many false prophets and many false reports. There are true ones, too. We must always remain open to that. Fatima was one example. There is another one, currently occuring--the apparitions that have been taking place at Medjurgorje, Yugoslavia (or whatever its called now). Mary has been appearing every day for eleven years now. It's time the world started listening. More info available to any who want it. Peace in Christ Our Lord, - Mike Walker mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ",15 "Re: Uninterruptible Power Supply alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung) writes: >In article <1qk724INN474@hp-col.col.hp.com> cab@col.hp.com (Chris Best) writes: >>I'm no expert at UPS's, but you said something that made it sound like >>you didn't realize something. On a typical UPS (well, on ours, anyway), >>there is NO switchover from AC to DC. All the protected equipment is >>ALWAYS running from the batteries (via an inverter), with the usual >>condition of also having them on charge. If the power fails, big deal - >>the computers never see it (until the batteries start to droop, but >>there's something like 60 car-sized batteries in that cabinet, so it >>takes a while). >> >>If you were gonna run the guts on straight DC instead of an inverter, >>why not do it all the time? Then there'd be no switchover to screw >>things up, and no having to sense the failure fast. Just keep the DC >>on charge when the power is on, and it'll be there in zero time when >>you ""need"" it. >> >Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that...I sounds to me, >your UPS takes in AC, rectifies it to DC to charge the batteries, and >then takes the battery DC and chops it to AC again, feeding your >equipment. This approach is the easiest and cleanest way to >switchover from the mains to battery once your power kicks out since, >as you mentioned, nothing will know about what happened down the line. >Another way to do the UPS scheme is to use the mains until you >lose power, and then kick in the battery backup with it's inverter to >replace the lost power. The problem here is the switchover time and >you've got to resync the AC in no time flat. That's a standby unit not a UPS, otherwise there would be no interuption. Many standby units are labled as UPS's though. Morgan Bullard mb4008@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu or mjbb@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu >Unfortunately, most everything is built around the assumption that >AC is available, so the UPS guys have to provide and AC output to >be usable...ya sorta have to make it work with what there already. >Similar story with our telephone system. It was first invented back >in the 1800's. We're still using the same damn system (media) as they >did back then. If I have a phone from back then, I can assure you >it'll work on today's phone system. It costs too much to overhaul >everyone to a new system, so they make it work with what is out there. >. ",12 "Re: Effectiveness .44 calibre jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes: From psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) on rec.martial-arts... >I'm sure such weapons have been developed. Our society does not, >however, condone their possession or use. Actually, Joe, I wrote the above. Peter was responding to my article. I'm actually rather confused by your post. I suppose I didn't make myself clear, cause you seem to have gotten exactly the opposite impression from what I intended. I suppose ""the authorities"" might have been a better term than ""society"". Carry and use a firearm in many parts of the country (certainly the parts I live in), and expect, at the very least, to have an awful lot of explaining to do. And there is also appears to be a trend in society at large that actively opposes what many see as their right to defend themselves. In a few other parts of our society, handguns are banned or so restricted as to be practically unavailable to the law- abiding citizen for self-defense outside the home. Funny, though, how the criminals in such places continue to have a lush supply of guns and no compunctions about using them. IMHO, you don't need to be either a political philosopher or a crime victim to realize that there's a flaw in the gun- grabbers' logic. Agreed. You're welcome to your HO, too, the First Amendment being as important as the Second, but please don't let your obvious good intentions be subverted by insupportable generalities about something as big and diverse as US society. My only intention was to comment that the existence of suitable weapons of self defense doesn't mean you'll escape a whole shitload of trouble should you be forced to use them. Or by the naive hope that making gun possession a crime will give pause to someone who would be a criminal anyway. I made no such statements, nor do I have such a naive hope or outlook. Wishing you peace and the wherewithal to defend yourself if others' thoughts are not that kindly, That's all I want: the opportunity to leave in peace, or to have the means to defend myself when that in not possible. I *think* we agree on this issue. I guess my position didn't survive the transition from cognition to ASCII. -- Garry Hodgson A slow winter day AT&T Bell Labs A night like forever garry@alice.att.com Sink like a stone att!alice!garry Float like a feather ",16 "Daily Verse Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. IPeter 4:8 ",15 "Planet X Does any one out there have experience with Planet X, I am considering buying it to use on a SPARCstation IPC, in this way I can run Mac programs from the SPARC. Would you recommend buying this piece of Software and what is the emulation on the SPARC like? Does it give a window of a Mac or does it give a window of just the individual programs? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dean ========================================================================= Institute of Human Genetics I University of Minnesota I Box 206 UMHC I ""If all you have is a hammer, Harvard Street at East River Road I you tend to look at every Minneapolis, MN 55455 I problem as a nail."" I Voice (612) 625-5128 I -Maslow Fax (612) 626-7031 I Email dean@lenti.med.umn.edu I ========================================================================== ",5 "Re: Playoff predictions smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes: > OK, I'll join in the fun and give my playoff predictions: > > 1st round: > ---------- > > PITT vs NYI: PITT in 4. > WASH vs NJD: WASH in 6. > > BOS vs BUF: BOS in 5. > QUE vs MON: MON in 7. > > CHI vs STL: CHI in 4. > DET vs TOR: DET in 6. > > VAN vs WIN: WIN in 6. > CAL vs LA: CAL in 5. > > 2nd round: > ---------- > > PITT vs WASH: PITT in 4. > BOS vs MON: BOS in 6. > > CHI vs DET: CHI in 7. > WIN vs CAL: CAL in 5. > > 3rd round: > ---------- > > PITT vs BOS: PITT in 5. > CHI vs CAL: CHI in 5. > > Finals: > ------ > > PITT vs CHI: PITT in 5. > > > ============================================= > Walter > Not bad, you only got 2 wrong,... Cal over Chi in 5 and Cal over Pit in 6 (or 7) to take the SC s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence) Western Business School -- London, Ontario ",10 "Clipper considered harmful If Clipper comes to cellular phones along with legal proscriptions against using other cipher systems on these phones, a new and potentially dangerous class of crime is created. Criminals who very badly want inscrutable tactical communications (specifically the terrorists and drug dealers who proponents of key escrow cite as threats) will be highly motivated to steal the cipher phone of a legitimate user, and to kill this person or hold them hostage so discovery of compromise of the device will be delayed. Once a suitable collection of devices is stolen, criminals can communicate with impunity (assuming the cipher system carries no trapdoors apart from key escrow) until and unless the compromise is discovered by some other means. Because life-is-cheap criminals are currently willing to kill people to steal very large and conspicuous property (luxury cars), it is reasonable to assume that they will be willing to kill people to steal small and inconspicuous property (a cipher cellular phone). Just as we have seen in the past with ""blue box"" technology, and in the present with modified cellular phones, we can expect to see among high-stakes criminals a lucrative market for stolen cipher phones which can be used for a few days. The high-stakes criminals will pay the life-is-cheap types substantial amounts for stolen instruments. Because a person is typically discovered as missing or dead in a few days, a stolen instrument will be usable for only a few days. There will be a continuing demand for fresh phones: fresh bodies. In other words, Clipper and similar systems have the potential to turn a current inconvenience to law enforcement into a direct, vicious, and persistent threat to the general public. On the other hand, if a criminal were to apply some arbitrary cipher to a device in a mostly non-ciphered network, the communication will at least stand out as being unusual, and perhaps worthy of other means of investigation. Finally, because there is essentially no possibility of intercepting in realtime the scrutable content of communications between stolen instruments, there will exist strong motivation to record and archive _all_ communications in the network for ex-post-facto scrutiny (once some criminal act is discovered, and the instruments involved have been identified). While recording and archiving may not be feasible for wireline networks, it is probably feasible across the more limited bandwidth of radio networks. The existence of these recordings could open up vast potential for abuse. Brad Yearwood brad@optilink.com {uunet, pyramid}!optilink!brad Petaluma, CA ",11 "Re: Playoff predictions Everybody. Please send me your predictions for the Stanley Cup Playoffs! I want to see who people think will win.!!!!!!! Please Send them in this format, or something comparable: 1. Winner of Buffalo-Boston 2. Winner of Montreal-Quebec 3. Winner of Pittsburgh-New York 4. Winner of New Jersey-Washington 5. Winner of Chicago-(Minnesota/St.Louis) 6. Winner of Toronto-Detroit 7. Winner of Vancouver-Winnipeg 8. Winner of Calgary-Los Angeles 9. Winner of Adams Division (1-2 above) 10. Winner of Patrick Division (3-4 above) 11. Winner of Norris Division (5-6 above) 12. Winner of Smythe Division (7-8 above) 13. Winner of Wales Conference (9-10 above) 14. Winner of Campbell Conference (11-12 above) 15. Winner of Stanley Cup (13-14 above) I will summarize the predictions, and see who is the biggest INTERNET GURU PREDICTING GUY/GAL. Send entries to Richard Madison rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca PS: I will send my entries to one of you folks so you know when I say I won, that I won!!!!! :) ",10 "Powerbook Serial Ports Hello. I have a question (or two) about the serial ports for the powerbooks (specifically the 145 with system 7.0.1). Is there a difference between the serial ports on the powerbooks versus any other mac, say plus or ii?? I have heard, though not confirmed by apple that the serial ports have problems at high speeds. I also heard that sys 7.1's new power manager 'fixes' this problem allowing speeds just as any other serial port. My particular use is that I have a 6811 EVB board that I need to interface with my powerbook via the modem port at 9600 baud. Currently, we are interfacing using mac pluses. I set everything up just as in lab and nothing. In fact, the powerbook locks up. Can anyone help, inform, advise? I would appreciate it. I would prefer email since I don't read the news at all. I will post a summary if enough response is generated. Thanks. Faisal M. Bhamani faceman@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ps. If this topic has been discussed already, please excuse me and direct me to the appropriate places. thanks. ",4 "Re: Sixty-two thousand (was Re: How many read sci.space?) In article <1993Apr15.131954.1@fnalf.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >Reid, alas, gives us no measure of the ""power/influence"" of readers... >Sorry, Mark. I think I can. Largely as a result of efforts by people reading this group writing letters and making phone calls the following has happened: 1. NASA reprogrammed funds to keep NASP alive in 1991. 2. Efforts to kill DC-X and the SSRT progam where twice twarted (Feb. and June of last year). 3. Gouldin kept his job in spite of heavy lobbying against him. This may not be what Mark was thinking of but it shows that the readers of sci.space DO have power and influence. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lady Astor: ""Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your coffee!"" | | W. Churchill: ""Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."" | +----------------------58 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ",14 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore) writes: >tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes: >> In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU (""Erik Vel >> >This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway. >> >Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to >> >throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass. Four or five >> >cars were hit. There were several serious injuries, and sadly >> >a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck >> >in the head by one of the larger rocks. I don't recall if she >> >made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and >> >doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live. >> > >> >What the hell is happening to this great country of ours? I >> >can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but >> >20 pound rocks??! Has our society really stooped this low?? >> > >> >Erik velapold >> >> Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason >> is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is >> ""No Big Deal"". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort >> children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised >> when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the >> message they hear is ""Life is Cheap""! >> >> AT >Well people fortunatly or unfortunatly , >only the US is experiencing the devaluation of human life (among >developed nations). >I am an American but I was raised in Europe, where the worst thing that >can happen to somebody is get his car broken into, or have his pocket >picked by Slaves or Russian refugees. >Of cource there will be some nutcases, but thats extremely rare. >I.e. in Greece you can walk through any neighborhood at any time during >the night without even worrying. >In Germany , you can walk the sidewalks at 4.00 am and not even look >behind your back, at the sanitation crews that clean the streets to a >sparkling cleen. >Whoever of you have been there you know what I am saying. >I dont have any easy answers but if we as a nation do some selfcritisism >we might get somewhere. >Of course these postings sould be in soc.culture.US but if we reduce >crime here it 'll mean less car insurance rates ,thus we could spend >more money on modifing our cars. (Now my posting is rec.autos.tech >revelant). >Vlasis Theodore >___________________ >Software Engineer >IDB Mobile Communications. >Sig under development ... I remember this happening on the I-75 through Michigan and Ohio several years back. A group of guys in an old beater would rear end a car, usually out of state or Canadians. You stop and they smack you with a BB bat. At least they didn't kill you for the sake of a car. I think the cops put out decoys and this calmed down for a while. Vlasis, are you safe walking through Germany if you are a refugee ? ",7 "Re: Free Moral Agency and Kent S. In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) >Subject: Re: Free Moral Agency and Kent S. >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 01:51:57 GMT >In article , healta@saturn.wwc.edu >(TAMMY R HEALY) wrote: >> Ezekiel 28:17 says, Your hart was filled with pride because of all your >> beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. Therefore >> I have cast you down the the ground and exposed you helpless before the >> curious gaze of Kings."" > >> For those of you who are Bible scholars, you knowthat the 1st 11 verses >> refer to the Prince of Tyre. This is a prophesy about and addressed to the >> human prince. Verses 12-19 refer to the King of Tyre, which is a term for >> Satan. > >Tammy, what's the rationale to connect the prince of Tyre with Satan, >could you give us more rational bible cites, thanks? I'm afraid that >if this is not the case, your thinking model falls apart like a house >of cards. But let's see! > >Cheers, >Kent >--- >sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. At the time Ezekiel was written, Israel was in apostacy again and if I'm not mistaken, Tyre was about to make war on Israel. Like I said, the Prince of Tyre was the human ruler of Tyre. He was a wicked man. By calling Satan the King of Tyre, Ezekiel was saying that Satan is the real ruler over Tyre. Don't think my interpretation is neccessarily the orthodox Christian one, although most Christian Bible commentaries interpret the King of Tyre as being a reference to Satan. (I haven't read Ezekiel throughly in a long time.) Tammy ",0 "Re: Plus minus stat... In <4LD32B2w165w@sms.business.uwo.ca> j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David) writes: >It was Bryan Trottier, not Denis Potvin. It was a vicious >'boarding' from behind...Trottier was given a major. Perhaps it was Trottier. It happened behind the Habs goal if I recall. Gainey simply didn't have his head up as he was picking up the puck. >But Roger, what the hell does this have to do with Gainey's skill >as a hockey player? If Probert smashes Gilmour's head into the >boards next week, will that diminish your assessment of Gilmour's >skills? If Gilmour was taken completely by surprise, as Gainey was, then yeah, I would have to say that Doug wasn't playing ""technically"" smart hockey. In any case, to claim as Greg did, that Gainey *never* made a technical mistake is absolutely ludicrous. >>Gainey was a plugger. And when the press runs out of things to >>say about the stars on dynasties they start to hype the >>pluggers. Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob >>Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne >>Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri Richard, >>Dick Duff...and so on... > >I would take Fuhr and Sanderson off of the latter. Good for you. You'd only be displaying your ignorance of course, but to each his own... >I think Gainey would be honoured to know that you've included him I think Gainey should feel honoured to know that he is remembered at all. >on this list. I also think you have a relatively naive view >about what wins a hockey game...pluggers are an integral part of Certainly pluggers are an integral part of any team. And that is simply because there are not enough solid two-way players to go around. Who would you rather have as your ""checking"" centre? Doug Gilmour or Doug Jarvis? For that matter I would take either Gretzky or Mario as my ""checking"" centres. Do you think Gretzky could cover Bob Gainey? >any team. The Selke is designed to acknowledge their >contribution...I think that most people understand that it's not >the Nobel Prize...so settle down. You're wrong again. The Selke is awarded to the forward that does the best job defensively and this may or may not be the best plugger. If Gilmour does the best defensive job in the league I don't see why he should be out of the running simply because he also contributes offen- sively. Settle down? If you think that I have likened the Selke to the Nobel prize then I suggest that you had best ""settle down"". And if you are going to try to put words in my mouth, let me suggest that you ""settle down"" before you bother following up on my postings. >congenially, as always, > >jd > >-- >James David >david@student.business.uwo.ca You might consider developing your own style. After all, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I am quite sure that flattery is not your intention. cordially, as always, rm -- Roger Maynard maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ",10 "Sample Cd's for sale I've got 2 sets of sample cd's for sale set one (2cd's)-geared towards house/techno/pop and rap The 1st cd is all drum loops and drum sounds over 1500 of them The second contains analog synths, basses, bass loops, wavestations, vox loops and much much more. The second set- A variety of different sounds from new age to rock etc... kind of a sampler cd..(pardon the pun) Both have never been used and I can supply a list of categories for the sounds if someone is seriously interested. I'd like 130 for all three as they were $200ish new... Michael mail for more info ",6 "Sid Fernandez? I read this morning that Sid Fernandez left last nights' game with stiffness in his shoulder. Does anyone have any information as to the extent of the injury (if indeed there is one), or weather the cold air in Colorado just got his joints a little stiff? Thanks for the help... | Ray Miller | DISCLAIMER | | cub@chopin.jpl.nasa.gov | All opinions are strictly my own | ""I once spent a year in Philadelphia, I think it was on a Sunday"" WCFields ",9 "Disappearing hard drive in LC? The internal HD in my LC disappeared for a day last week, and I'd like to hear any (reasonable) theories folks can suggest for what happened. It is an LC, with 10MB of RAM and an 80MB internal drive, running system 7.1, with a few SCSI devices in a (so far as I know) properly terminated chain. I had shut down the system for a day-- I was out of town and we sometimes have thunderstorms this time of year-- and upon restarting got a blinking question mark. I booted from a floppy and saw that my external HD seemed okay, but there was no sign of the internal. I installed a system folder on the external and was, indeed, able to boot from it. I tried things like Disk First Aid and Silverlining, to inquire about the internal drive. They either could not find it or got errors in trying to talk to it. (Silverlining claimed it was a Connor drive, but it is a Quantum... ) Well, I'd backed things up, so I was able to work. But, at some point I noticed that the internal had reappeared. Now, Disk First Aid says that all's well, etc. Things seem to be fine. But, what happened? Was this a warning that something (the internal HD or something else) is about to die? I'm definitely nervous. And, if this is a signal that the internal HD is sick, is it true that I can only put up to a 127MB drive inside an LC? Some folks have claimed there's a limitation in the LC (other'n size or power) while others (and that includes LaCie, over the phone) say anything that fits is okay. Thanks for answers. ",4 "Re: The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Costly and Dangerous Mistake dgannon@techbook.techbook.com (Dan Gannon) writes: > THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE > > by Theodore J. O'Keefe > > [Holocaust revisionism] > > Theodore J. O'Keefe is an editor with the Institute for Historical > Review. Educated at Harvard University . . . According to the 1990 Harvard Alumni Directory, Mr. O'Keefe failed to graduate. You may decide for yourselves if he was indeed educated anywhere. Steven Smith ",17 "Re: First bike: Honda Ascot? In article nbetz@csi.compuserve.com (Nathan Betz) writes: >Hi folks. > >I'm going to be buying my first bike and I'm considering an 82 >Honda Ascot FT500 with less than 5K miles. Does this sound like a >reasonable choice? Is there anything special I need to know? > >Thanks. > >-Nathan Nice litle bike. I loved riding my brother-in-law's. ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====---- Stolen Taglines... * God is real, unless declared integer. * * I came, I saw, I deleted all your files. * * Black holes are where God is dividing by zero. * * The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out. * * Earth is 98% full.... please delete anyone you can. * ",8 "Montreal versue Quebec Did anyone see the Montreal - Quebec game yesterday? It was tight right down to the last second of the third period. In the overtime Roy and Hextall played like they were gods. Ok, so Montreal won! They deserved it after getting their first goal in overtime waved off because the puck was hit in with a high stick. Their second goal in overtime was also replayed, but I could not tell if it was the Montreal player who kicked it in. The puck definitely was not directed in by a stick. Anyways, Montreal is back into the series. Dave Vergolini Michigan State University vergolin@euler.lbs.msu.edu ",10 "WACO: suicide? Those of us who questioned the mass suicide line may still have wondered, ""If it wasn't suicide, why did so few get out?"" The answer is now available - the gas the government had been pouring in on them is so disabling that its use in wartime is banned by the chemical weapons treaty. The U.S. had agreed not to use this gas against enemy soldiers in wartime, but used it in peacetime against civilians, including nnocent children. For confirmation see Friday's CLINTON:AM press briefing by George Stephanopoulous, posted in alt.news-media and other locations. (When questioned about it, his reply was that the treaty did not forbid its internal use by law enforcement agencies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This posting from Stephen F. Austin State University's ANONYMOUS account. Please report abuses to newsmgr@ccsvax.sfasu.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",16 "FOR SALE - MACINTOSH SE/30 FOR SALE Apple Macintosh SE/30 8MB RAM, 80MB HD System 7.1 Installed RasterOps 264/30 24-bit video card for SE/30 Apple 13"" Monitor Targus carrying case I'm after offers in the region of 1250 pounds. I'm in the north London area. Contact Mark Allerton E-Mail: pascal@cix.compulink.co.uk mark@bilpin.co.uk Phone: 081 341 6400 (evenings/weekends) 071 267 2561 (office hours) +-----------------------------------+ | Mark Allerton | | SRL Data | | mark@bilpin.co.uk | | pascal@cix.compulink.co.uk | +-----------------------------------+ ",4 "Selfish hockey fans.. On Tuesday, when it was raining in Chicago, ESPN provided bonus hockey coverage. Now it seems as though some fans are ticked off that the NY-Wash OT was replaced with the Angels-?? game. People must realize that there are more baseball fans instead of hockey fans in the U.S The baseball game was scheduled to air and advertisers money was paid so they can't skip the baseball game. Why don't you people CHILL OUT and enjoy whatever coverage you can get. Geoff Filinuk ",10 "Re: CA's pedophilia laws cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: >k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie R. McCarthy) writes: ># ># Having completely ># dived into the abyss of believing that there are no queers in the world ># who think differently from the child-molestation-advocating minority on ># soc.motss, he doesn't even notice that he's starting a sentence with ># ""They believe"" when the referent of that ""they"" is millions of people. ># ""...so few as to be irrelevant..."" > >If you don't want to be lumped together as a group, stop insisting >on being treated as a member of a group. Please point out where I have said I even _was_ a member of that group, much less asked to be treated as such, much less insisted upon it. >Sexual orientation is not defined by the anti-discrimination law >that was passed last year. Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation? Wait a minute. You've been claiming for quite a while now that pedophilia, according to CA state law, is a sexual orientation. Now your position is that the law doesn't specifically exclude it? You know damn well what's going to happen. Some guy in a NAMBLA T-shirt's going to apply at a day-care, they're going to turn him down, he's going to take it to court, and the court's going to rule that sexual orientation is defined as homosexuality, heterosexuality, or bisexuality. Unless and until that court decides that pedophilia is a sexual orientation, you have no business saying so. ># ""Silence = Death"" pin or something. They turn me down because of ># that. > >I wholeheartedly support their right to take this action. I wouldn't >do it myself, unless it was something like the NAMBLA T-shirt. Despite the fact that all homosexuals are lying bastards? ># How about: a black man applies for a job at a bank. The bank decides, ># based on statistics, a black person would be more likely to steal ># money, and denies the man the job. Would you support the bank's right ># to this freedom? > >I support their right to do so [deletia] but [deletia] Ah. So, for example, you are opposed to the Civil Rights Act of 1964? >Here's the law that was passed and signed by the governor: > > The people of the State of California do enact as follows: > > 1 SECTION 1. The purpose of this act is to codify > 2 existing case law as determined in Gay Law Students v. > 3 Pacific Telephone and Telegraph, 24 Cal. 3d 458 (1979) > 4 and Soroka v. Dayton Hudson Corp., 235 Cal. App. 3d 654 > 5 (1991) prohibiting discrimination based on sexual > 6 orientation. > 7 SEC. 2. Section 1102. is added to the Labor Code, to > 8 read: > 9 1102.1. (a) Sections 1101 and 1102 prohibit >10 discrimination or disparate treatment in any of the terms >11 and conditions of employment based on actual or >12 perceived sexual orientation. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >13 (b) This section shall not apply to a religious >14 association or corporation not organized for private >15 profit, whether incorporated as a religious or public >16 benefit corporation. There's no ""for purposes of this act, the term 'sexual orientation' will be defined as"" section? No definitions anywhere? Did they run this through the state Congress on an accelerated schedule or something? -- Jamie McCarthy Internet: k044477@kzoo.edu AppleLink: j.mccarthy ",18 "Re: Power, signal surges in home... dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt) writes: : : >What kind of power must he be putting out to cause the effects? : >The affected equipment is about 100 feet from the road... : : Might be a couple of hundred watts, from the sound of it. Kicking sound : out of the TV and stereo speakers by direct RF rectification requires a : mighty strong carrier! [I've heard of linears so powerful that : triggering them while the car was idling, would stall the engine by : pulling down the battery voltage.] It would take a lot more than that. It sounds like the radio equipment is actually not shut completely off - but just goes to a standby situation. I suspect that the stories are just that, stories. The voltage can only be sucked down so far instantaneously. When you try to jumpstart someones car, when your vehicle is at idle, does your car stall? No, the other car just does not crank well. Now, the engine might stall because the idle was too low to start with. When the extra current is drawn, the idle speed will drop - as the alternator loads down the engine to compensate for the increased amperage requirement. : >Is resolution of this problem a matter for the power company, the fcc, or both? : : Ultimately it's likely to be your problem to resolve, I'm afraid. The : FCC is so understaffed that they don't pay much attention to citizen : complains about RFI (or so I've heard)... they'll just send you a : pamphlet describing how you can apply corrective measures. : : Talking to the power company might help - they might be able to install : filtering devices at your service panel (or recommend a type which you : could have installed by a licensed electrician). A transmitter is not going to be affecting house power. If surges are occurring there, it is due to another cause - not a transmitter. : Unfortunately, there's a fair chance that enough signal is being picked : up by your house wiring that a simple service-panel filter won't : suffice. You may need to install heavy-duty RFI filters at the power : connections of your affected equipment. It is probably not that much of a problem. Often - toroid coils on the power leads will solve that part of the interference problem. It will not solve internal equipment deficiencies. : If the problem occurs regularly, you may need to ""stake out"" the street : in question, and watch for trucks or cars with big antennae driving by : at the time interference occurs. If you can identify the vehicle which : is transmitting, you may be able to contact its owner and complain. It is probably not the transmitter that is at fault. If the person is an amateur, then he/she will probably be willing to help - if you explain that the person is causing interference. Bill ",12 "Price drop on C650 within NS>I am going to be getting a C650 soon, but I don;t want Apple NS>to come out with the Cyclones and the Tempest in a month NS>and have the price drop on the system I want. I have negotiated a NS>good deal with a supplier for a C650 8/80 and I would like to jump on it, NS>but, again, I don't want the price drop to smuther me. BTW, the deal NS>I have is a C650 8/80 with mouse for $2295... does anyone know of a better NS>deal? I don't know of a better deal, but would you be willing to share your deal with the rest of us. That certainly sounds like you're getting a great deal. I'd be interested in that deal too. --- . DeLuxe. 1.26b #956s . MicroFrame: The BEST in Price and Performance! . QNet3. . The PipeLine : Atlanta, GA : Echo Mail From Around The World ---- | HAL 9000 BBS: QWK-to-Usenet gateway | Four 14400 v.32bis dial-ins | | FREE Usenet mail and 200 newsgroups! | PCBoard 14.5aM * uuPCB * Kmail | | Call +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 +--------------------------------+ | Member of EFF, ASP, ASAD * 1500MB disk * Serving Ann Arbor since 1988 | ",4 "Re: Anyone have experience with Visix' Galaxy? In article , grier@world.std.com (The Political Crony) writes: > > The title line says it. The Galaxy package was just recently announced, and > includes a GUI-builder and portable toolkit. I'm interested in any > feedback from those who may have used it thus far. We've been using it for a year on Unix (Sun and HP) and Windows platforms. In my opinion, it is the best toolkit on the market. It supports a rich API to a high level IPC mechanism, file system abstraction, memory management, command driven application development, drawing, geometry management, and, oh yeah, Open Look, Motif, MS-Windows and Mac (at the flip of a switch). > > Thanks > Jim Grier > grier@world.std.com > -- -- Greg Pasquariello grp@unify.com Hobnobbing with the ancients Unify Corporation or (916) 928-6258 ...!uunet!unify!grp ",5 "Re: psychnet --In article <1pfg45INNk23@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca>, okabe@unixg.ubc.ca (Ian Okabe) writes: **************************************************************** * ////// ---------------------- * // // ""Electronic Networking For / PsychNet.Com / * ////// ""Professional Psychology."" /Serving Psychologists/ * // sychNet (1-800-541-2598) / World Wide / *// ----------------------- ************************************************************ >Whats with this psychnet thing...its on just about everyones's >posting no matter where they post from. Its getting very annoying. >-- >Ian T. Okabe (okabe@unixg.ubc.ca) >Atmospheric Sciences, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada It's an experiment, place a not so subliminal, slightly cagey message in front of a viewer and see how long it takes to create a response, and what was the response... It was the same thing with the ""Blow me"" message, only it had a quicker response time...and some unexpected responses along with the expectedly negative ones... Anyone see how long that took? Yours, in jest... Tom T ********************************************************************** * Tom Testagrossa - E-MAIL: ttesta@kali.enet.dec.com * * US-mail: 132 Clarendon St Apt #2 * * Fitchburg, Ma 01420 U.S.A. * * Phone: Work (508)493-0437 (Voicemail)* * Home (508)342-2362 * * Ask me about my guitars... * *********************************************************************** ",6 "Re: best homeruns The best one I saw last year was Willie McGee off Matthews (I think?) in Phillie. A fierce line drive that was still rising when it hit thE second deck facade at the Vet. Willie McGee had one homerun last year. -- Eric ",9 "Re: Weirdness of Early Christians Were the early Christians weird? Yes! So were their non-Christian contemporaries (the more familiar you are with late Republican Rome or the Pricipate, the weirder those people will seem -- forget the creative filtering done by Renaissance and Eighteenth Century hero worship.) So are modern non-Christians. And Christians. You are pretty weird, yourself, with your rather acid dismissal of Luther and of Protestantism -- and in apparently buying into a simplistic propaganda model about Catholicism *not* being faddish. Sure, it's so large that global fads take longer cycles than they do in smaller denominations (and local ones are not usually visible unless you do a lot of traveling to exotic lands :-)). May I recom- mend, as a salutary antidote to this nonsense Philippe Aries' book _The Hour of our Death_, a longitudinal study of death customs in Western [specifically Catholic] Christendom? And it won't help to escape into the obscurity of the first Christian century. Paul was pretty weird, too; as were Peter and the others in the (apparently quite weird) circle around Jesus. What I think you might find helpful is a bit more charity -- try to understand these weirdos and nutcases with the same respect and love you would expect others to show YOUR notions. We *are* commanded to love one another, after all. And Brown's book is, in fact, a heroic attempt to SEE the groupings he talks about as motivated in love and the gospel and their social contexts. (If anything, Brown is *too* heroic here -- he manages to overstrain himself at times :-)) I don't suggest that we *follow* any of these old cult paths -- and it raises hard questions from the skeptic inside me that so much of early Christianity *was* like the weird (Christian and non-Christian) cults we see today. To that extent, I think you raise a serious problem (and perhaps your phrasing is implicitly self-deprecatory and ironic.) But the first principle for *answering* these questions is respect and love for those we do not understand. And it helps to *work* at under- standing (as long as we do not get overwhelmed by revulsion and begin to withdraw our respect for them as people.) I would advise, in other words, MORE historical reading (Brown's other books are also good, most especially his bio. of Augustine; also try Robin Lane Fox's _Christians and Pagans_, maybe the Paul Veyne ed. _History of Private Life_, some of Foucault's books on sexuality in the ancient world ...) Humanity *is* weird -- we have known ONE sane person, and we killed Him. Fortunately for us, this has proved a Comedy rather than a Tragedy. Easter, 1993. (yes; this is a tad early -- our Vigil service here has been moved forward because so many churches in the area have taken to doing their own Vigils, and the seminarians must therefore worship-and-run if they are to do it here and there as well. Think of this as an Anglican fad. :-)) -- Michael L. Siemon We must know the truth, and we must mls@ulysses.att.com love the truth we know, and we must - or - act according to the measure of our love. mls@panix.com -- Thomas Merton ",15 "Hosed HD? Hey All- We have an old (1990) external HD attached to the Plus in our lab. It had given us flawless service until last week. The problem: Someone in our lab has an old 512 that was upgraded a couple years ago to a Plus with an aftermarket SIMM/SCSI setup (Digigraphics ""SIMMer""). the DB25 SCSI plug runs through the back of the machine and attaches to the board with a 26-pin rectangular connector. Well, this guy had removed the back from the machine, to put more memory in, and had disconnected the the SCSI plug. Since the 26-pin connector is symmetrical (not keyed) he may have reinstalled it upside down, essentially reversing the pins on the DB25. He came in and asked if he could try out our HD on his SCSI port (it had never been used). Naive fools that we are, we said o.k.. His computer failed to recognize the drive. Now, none of the computers in our lab will recognize it. We tried Disk Doctor, and it doesn't recognize anything on the SCSI chain. Could installing the SCSI upside down have wrecked the HD's driver board? The drive seems to spin up all right and unpark itself upon powerup. The events are too coincidental to attribute the problem to stiction. Any help greatly appreciated- James jak@fff.chem.utah.edu (NeXT Mail) ",4 "Re: MC SBI mixer musone@acsu.buffalo.edu (Mark J. Musone) writes: > P.S. any REALLY GOOD BOOKS on AM/FM theory ALONG WITH DETAILED > ELECTRICAL DIAGRAMS would help a lot. > I have seen a lot of theory books with no circuits and a lot of > circuit books with no theory, but one without the other does not help. Mixers have a wide variety of implementations; the Mini-Circuits part you mention is a doubly-balanced diode mixer, but active ones (BJT, FET) seem more popular in consumer receivers. You might call MCL; they have a nice catalog. The universal answer for wide-coverage, theory+practice, RF design is the _ARRL Handbook_, published by the American Radio Relay League, the radio amateur organization. Any technical bookstore can order you one. The book is superb, with lots of accessible theory, construction projects, and generally interesting stuff. You might also check out _Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur_ (I think), by Hayward and . This has sharper design and test information about subsystems like mixers. Peter Monta monta@image.mit.edu MIT Advanced Television Research Program ",12 "Re: Abortion To: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) From: anthony.landreneau@ozonehole.com JH>So kill a cow, you're a murderer? Come on, are you not smarter than that? Anthony * SLMR 2.1 * What's the difference between an Orange? ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",19 "Re: NL vs. AL? Doug Roberts - Ken Hill for NL MVP!! Let's go 'Spos ",9 "Re: Cobra Locks Greetings netters, Steve writes ... Well I have the mother of all locks. On Friday the 16th of April I took possesion of a 12' Cobra Links lock, 1"" diameter. This was a special order. I weighs a lot. I had to carry it home and it was digging into my shoulder after about two blocks. I have currently a Kryptonite Rock Lock through the front wheel, a HD padlock for the steering lock, a Master padlock to lock the cover to two front spokes, and the Cobra Links through the rear swing arm and around a post in an underground parking garage. Next Friday the 30th I have an appointment to have an alarm installed on me bike. When I travel the Cobra Links and the cover and padlock stay at home. By the way. I also removed the plastic mesh that is on the Cobra Links and encased the lock from end to end using bicycle inner tubes (two of them) I got the from bicycle dealer that sold me the Cobra Links. The guys were really great and didn't mark up the price of the lock much and the inner tubes were free. Later. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1992 FXSTC Rock 'N Roll Mike Mychalkiw HOG Ryerson Polytechnical Institute - DoD #665 Just THIS side of HELL. Academic Computing Information Centre doh #0000000667 Just the OTHER side. EMAIL : ACAD8059@RYEVM.RYERSON.CA ",8 "Re: With Friends Like The Paul Prescod pontificating: PP>State.EDU (Cathy Smith) writes: PP>> Libertarians oppose BOTH waiting periods AND background checks PP>>-- or ANY prerequisite for exercising rights that are supposed to PP>>be guaranteed. PP>Let me get this straight. Unlike the other idiots in this newsgroup, PP>you actually support anybody having unlimited access to guns, PP>inclucing criminals. (or would you prohibit them from owning them, PP>but not from buying them?) PP>You are a supreme idiot. You make the other idiots look like Mensa members. Thanks Paul, for yet another fine example of the holier than thou gun control mindset. Why don't you add something intelligent to the debate, like maybe nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah. --- . OLX 2.2 . Fight crime..... shoot back! ---- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ye Olde Bailey BBS 713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis) | | Houston,Texas yob.sccsi.com Home of alt.cosuard | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",16 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? (long) In article <7106@npri6.npri.com>, murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy) wrote: > > > >A CNN factiod in the last few months stated that 40% of all the computers > >in the U.S. are left on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't recall > >CNN's source. > > > >ljones@utkvx.utk.edu (Leslie Jones) > > yeah, but most of those are Big Hulking Mainframes which have no monitors. > > > factoid : FAbricated or Corrupted Tidbit of Ordinary Information (Diluted) > > ok > dpm > -- > murphy@npri6.npri.com (systems programmer at large) When every one is dead > 602 Cameron St. the Great Game is finished > Alexandria, VA 22314 Not before. > (703) 683-9090 --- Hurree Babu, ""Kim"" Bob Brown ",4 "Re: Moon Colony Prize Race! $6 billion total? In article <1993Apr20.020259.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >I think if there is to be a prize and such.. There should be ""classes"" >such as the following: > >Large Corp. >Small Corp/Company (based on reported earnings?) >Large Government (GNP and such) >Small Governemtn (or political clout or GNP?) >Large Organization (Planetary Society? and such?) >Small Organization (Alot of small orgs..) Whatabout, Schools, Universities, Rich Individuals (around 250 people in the UK have more than 10 million dollars each). I reecieved mail from people who claimed they might get a person into space for $500 per pound. Send a skinny person into space and split the rest of the money among the ground crew! > >The organization things would probably have to be non-profit or liek ?? > >Of course this means the prize might go up. Larger get more or ?? >Basically make the prize (total purse) $6 billion, divided amngst the class >winners.. >More fair? > >There would have to be a seperate organization set up to monitor the events, >umpire and such and watch for safety violations (or maybe not, if peopel want >to risk thier own lives let them do it?). > Agreed. I volunteer for any UK attempts. But one clause: No launch methods which are clearly dangerous to the environment (ours or someone else's). No usage of materials from areas of planetary importance. >Any other ideas?? Yes: We should *do* this rather than talk about it. Lobby people! The major problem with the space programmes is all talk/paperwork and no action! >== >Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked > > -- **************************************************************************** Marvin Batty - djf@uk.ac.cov.cck ""And they shall not find those things, with a sort of rafia like base, that their fathers put there just the night before. At about 8 O'clock!"" ",14 "CGA card/monitor wanted And again...... title says it all. WHY? Lee (lee@tosspot.sv.com) ",3 "Re: Windows Help Mario Veraart (mveraart@fel.tno.nl) wrote: : umyin@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Qing Yin) writes: : >Hi, it's an *easy* question for you Windows gurus. I'd appreciate any help. : >We need to write an on-line help for our application. We don't have : >Windows Software Developer's Toolkit (yet :-) ). Since we just want to build : >a .HLP file around Windows' help engine, I hope it won't be that complicated? : >Anyway, could someone kindly give me some hints of how to build such an : >on-line help, if it does not take 100 pages to explain? Or if it is complicated, : >would you help to point out what I would need to do it? : >-- : >Vincent Q. Yin : >umyin@ccu.umanitoba.ca : Hi, : If you have developed your own windows application you must have a : SDK of some sort that contains the HC.EXE or HC31.EXE file to : compile and generate .HLP files out of .RTF files. ****-------> No, U can download what??.zip from ftp.cica.indiana.edu This package from MS is all U need to buid (simple?) .HLP files from Rich Text Format Files (.RTF). This package also contains .DOT tamplates for MS Word4Win. : RTF files are generated by a wordprocessor like Word for Dos or W4W. : If this is not the solution be more specific about your application. : Mario : -- : Mario Veraart TNO Physics and Electronics Laboratory : email: rioj7@fel.tno.nl The Hague The Netherlands : ""If all else fails, show pretty pictures and animated videos, : and don't talk about performance"", David Bailey ",2 "Powerbook 140-180 Batteries A quick query for Powerbook gurus: Tom Spearman, in a post on alternative Powerbook battery options mentioned that there exist 3 versions of their Powerbook 140-180 batteries: a 2.5 amp hour one (M5545/A), a 2.8 amp hour one, (M5545/B) and a 2.9 amp hour one (M5545/C). Anyone out there know how to determine which of these a battery is? I looked at my battery and there is no obvious exterior indication. I contacted Tom Spearman who had gleaned the information from MacUser and he didn't know either. Anyone out there know the answer? Thanks! Christopher Majka nextug@ac.dal.ca BTW, if you can reply via EMail I would be grateful. I don't often read this newsgroup. I will post a summary of answers. ",4 "Re: WC/Finland ketolain@messi.uku.fi (Jarkko Ketolainen) writes: >Disaster! Finland was beaten by Czech 1-3 (0-0,1-1,0-2). >Finland will be 4th of pool B and will most certainly meet Canada in the >quarter final on wednesday 28th. Lack of scoring skills has >been the major problem of team Finland throughout the tournament. >Briza (goalie) was the MVP of the Czech team and Tikkanen was the ^^^^^^^^ >MVP of the Finnish team. In four of the five games Finns have played, the goalie has been chosen the best player of the opposing team. (In the fifth, the finnish goalie, Ketterer was elected the best Finn) Has this to do with the goalies having good days in these games, or are the finnish players just lousy scorers??? Anyway, quite few goals have been scored in these games in generally (the exception of course being Canada vs. Italy). It looks like the goalies are getting too good. Is this due to their equipment getting bigger, so they cover more (their gloves, e.g. seem to be much bigger now than they were some years ago). Anybody know if the rules on goalie equipment has changed this way???? Mikko Wihervaara >Jarkko #14 -- T{m{ on nyt t{mm|nen testi sigun kai piti olla muutamarivinen nyt viel{ pari ",10 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1rc9vg$9be@squick.eitech.com> ekr@squick.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: #Frank, you are attempting to inject ""goodness"" judgements where there #are only ""accuracy"" judgements, by essentially punning on the word #'value' which has both meanings. # #""useful"" is a goodness judgement. ""Reasonable"" is an accuracy judgement. #They are not the same thing at all. (""Useful in making some conclusion"" is #an accuracy judgement again, I'm afraid.) This is the root of the problem: I bloomin' well amn't punning on the word value!!! I know it's ambiguous. I've told you the sense in which I'm using it (worth, use, goodness, etc). And value DOESN'T mean accuracy, by any stretch of the imagination. Value=result of a computation, is not what I mean, but I accept it as a possible misinterpretation of 'value'. Value == accuracy comes from out of left field. I can only understand that by '""useful in making some conclusion"" is an accuracy judgement' you mean one can judge whether it is *really* useful in making that conclusion or not. That's part of what I mean by objective valuation - values grounded in solid facts. One doesn't value x for the purpose y if all the evidence suggests that x doesn't really do that. The rest of what I mean is that the really fundamental values (e.g. our own freedom) are solid facts in themselves. Consider each of the following statements: (1) The only reason that the distinction between 'accurate' and 'inaccurate' exists at all is that a group of people finds it useful. (2) The main reason that science exists at all is that a group of people finds the distinction between 'accurate' and 'inaccurate' useful in dealing with phenomena. (3) Scientists find simple theories with accurate predictions useful in modelling phenomena. Where is the 'pun' of which you speak? Where am I arguing from idiom? And what is wrong, if those statements are true, with concluding that ""the basis of science is its *judged* usefulness in dealing with phenomena, i.e. 'subjective' values""? After all, what on earth is (3), if not a 'subjective' value judgement? (an 'accurate' value judgement, maybe?) Just to illustrate what I mean: what's the difference between saying 'simple theories with accurate predictions are the best tools we have to model phenomena' and (say) 'Love and intelligence are the best tools we have to achieve freedom'? Is one 'objective', the other not? Both are judgements about value (""best""), and both have the same empirical basis, from where _I_ sit. #Sorry, Frank, but all you're doing is #using the ambiguity of English to obfuscate the issue. IF you #mean to say that science is based on value (accuracy) judgements, #I have no problem with that. If you mean to say that it's based #on value (goodness) judgements, that's nonsense. By contrast, #morality is clearly based on goodness judgements. I'm afraid I do mean to say that it's based on ""goodness"" judgements. ""Simple theories with accurate predictions are better (_better_, BETTER) tools for interpreting reality than complex theories with inaccurate predictions"" is a fundamental value judgement that scientists make. A relativist might say that it only holds in the reference frame of ""science"", or of a given scientist - but it seems pretty solid and objective to me. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article <1993Apr15.192250.18815@cbnewse.cb.att.com> turbo@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gerald.l.lindahl) writes: >From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU (""Erik Velapoldi""): >> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway. >> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to >> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass. Four or five >> cars were hit. There were several serious injuries, and sadly About a year ago, some kids tossed a rock off an overpass on I-94 near Eau Claire, Wisconsin and it killed the driver below. (I believe he was a schoolteacher from Minnesota.) -- Jason Hanson | 915 W. Wisconsin Ave #1010 | (414) 288-2179 Marquette University | Milwaukee, WI 53233-2373 | Ham Radio: N9LEA/AE -- jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu ==+== n9lea@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na -- ",7 "MODEM PROBLEM: ""No Dialtone"" I have a 486DX-33 ISA pc-compatible (Insight) with an Infotel internal 14.4FAX/14.4data modem with QuickLinkII for Windows. When I first put the modem in, I pulled a phone out of the jack in another room, and ran a phone line extension to my surge protector and then my computer. The modem worked fine. Then I split the line from the jack in the other room, ran the line into my room into the surge protector and up to my computer. Then I got a regular phone and plugged that into the phone jack in the modem. Now when I try to use the modem, QuickLinkII says ""No dialtone"". The phone plugged into the back of the computer works fine. I tried unplugging the phone, but still no dice. Is it that the phone line was split too many times? (I don't understand how this could be a problem, since the phone worked fine.) Please note: none of the software or hardware parameters were changed, only the phone line itself. Is my new modem faulty? What can I do? -- David Thomas Dudek / v098pwxs@ubvms.bitnet \ __ _ The Cybard State University / dudek@sun.acsu.buffalo.edu \ / `-' ) ,,, of New York / ""If music be the food of love, \ | | ()|||||||[:::} @ Buffalo / play on!"" - Wm. Shakespeare \ `__.-._) ''' ",3 "Re: How many read sci.space? In article <1993Apr15.204210.26022@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron) writes: > >There are actually only two of us. I do Henry, Fred, Tommy and Mary. Oh yeah, >this isn't my real name, I'm a bald headed space baby. Damn! So it was YOU who was drinking beer with ROBERT McELWANE in the PARKING LOT of the K-MART! UNLIMITED INSEMINATION OF THIS MESSAGE RIGIDLY REFUSED Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it? -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ",14 "for sale FOR SALE: Trident 1 Meg Video Card Up to 1024x768 in 256 colors 50 Dollars Or Best Offer, E-Mail at dcassen@mcs213d.cs.umr.edu ",6 "Re: Should liability insurance be required? Tommy Marcus McGuire (mcguire@cs.utexas.edu) wrote: : You know, it sounds suspiciously like no fault doesn't even do what it : was advertised as doing---getting the lawyers out of the loop. : Sigh. Another naive illusion down the toilet.... Since most legislators are lawyers it is very difficult to get any law passed that would cut down on lawyers' business. That is why ""No-fault"" insurance laws always backfire. -- ******************************************************************************* * Bill Ranck (703) 231-9503 Bill.Ranck@vt.edu * * Computing Center, Virginia Polytchnic Inst. & State Univ., Blacksburg, Va. * ******************************************************************************* ",8 "Re: XV 3.00 has escaped! In <1rmhiuINNh2a@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> lindholm@ucs.ubc.ca (George Lindholm) writes: >In article <1rlhhkINNg62@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca>, lindholm@ucs.ubc.ca (George Lindholm) writes: >> In article <123645@netnews.upenn.edu> bradley@grip.cis.upenn.edu (John Bradley) writes: >> And here is the first patch :-) The following fixes some problems with the >> Imakefile files and makes it possible to compile xv-3.00 under Solaris without >> having to use the ucb stuff: >Oops, I didn't get the signal processing right (thats what I get from doing >the work on an ascii terminal). Here is the fixed patch: The patches for xv.h need to use ``#ifdef SVR4'' rather than the overly complex ``#if defined(sun) && defined(SYSV)'' in order to generically compile XV on i386SVR4Architecture. Also, rand and srand don't work very well--use lrand48 and seed48 to get better results. Otherwise, xv-3.00 compiles just fine on my Esix System V 4.0.4 box with XFree86 and gcc-2.3.3. I just uncommented the gcc definition in the Makefile, added -L/usr/X386/lib -I/usr/X386/include to the COPTS line and modified LIBS to include -lsocket -lnsl. Really John, if you just use the Imakefile things like this don't even have to get mentioned... *** 1.1 1993/04/28 08:33:13 --- xv.h 1993/04/28 17:47:38 *************** *** 284,292 **** --- 284,298 ---- /* signal macros */ + #ifdef SVR4 + #define HOLD_SIG sighold(SIGALRM) + #define RELEASE_SIG sigrelse(SIGALRM) + #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(SIGALRM) + #else #define HOLD_SIG sigblock(sigmask(SIGALRM)) #define RELEASE_SIG sigblock(0) #define PAUSE_SIG sigpause(0) + #endif /* default for most folks */ *************** *** 318,323 **** --- 324,333 ---- #define random rand #define srandom srand #endif + #ifdef SVR4 + #define random lrand48 + #define srandom seed48 + #endif ",5 "widgets vs. gadgets > I've been using the XmGraph widget that's been floating around and I > noticed the performance is significantly better using Gadgets, perhaps > even 100% faster. I had heard in an old programming course that gadgets > were no longer any benefit to performance, and that it's just as well > to use widgets everywhere. Interesting, I'd like to know why. But try it again on a single ethernet with 100 X terminals on it, and I think you'll find it much slower. Adrian Nye O'Reilly and Associates ",5 "Re: What WAS the immaculate conception In article jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler) writes: [referring to Mary] >She was immaculately conceived, and so never subject to Original Sin, >but also never committed a personal sin in her whole life. This was >possible because of the special degree of grace granted to her by God. I have quite a problem with the idea that Mary never committed a sin. Was Mary fully human? If it is possible for God to miraculously make a person free of original sin, and free of committing sin their whole life, then what is the purpose of the Incarnation of Jesus? Why can't God just repeat the miracle done for Mary to make all the rest of us sinless, without the need for repentance and salvation and all that? I don't particularly object to the idea of the assumption, or the perpetual virginity (both of which I regard as Catholic dogma about which I will agree to disagree with my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ), and I even believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but this concept of Mary's sinlessness seems to me to be at odds with the rest of Christian doctrine as I understand it. == Seanna Watson Bell-Northern Research, | Pray that at the end of living, (seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Of philosophies and creeds, | God will find his people busy Opinion, what opinions? Oh *these* opinions. | Planting trees and sowing seeds. No, they're not BNR's, they're mine. | I knew I'd left them somewhere. | --Fred Kaan ",15 "Re: Quadras VRAM Question Daniel Salber writes: >I have a question regarding Quadras VRAM. I have tried to find info on this >but I could not get precise answers. >On one hand, we have a Quadra 950 with a 16"" monitor, which is capable of >32-bit color. How much VRAM does it have? To display Millions of colors on a 16"" monitor you need 2MB of VRAM in the Q950. >On the other hand, we have a Quadra 800 with a 16"" monitor, which is capable >of 8-bit color only, so it must have 512 Ko of VRAM. Correct. This is the amount of on-board VRAM that the Q800 comes with. >I would like to take VRAM SIMMs for the 950 and put them in the 800 so that >both machines have 16-bit color capability. >Is it possible, and if yes, how many VRAM SIMMs should I take from the 950? Yes this is possible. Technically, you only need to take out 2 of the VRAM SIMMs but leaving in the other two will not get you anything because the 950 cannot really do anything with 1.5MB of VRAM. It only knows 1MB and 2MB. >From the documentation I have, the Quadra 800 must get 1 Mo VRAM to have >16-bit color, is that correct? Yes, this is correct. You get to 1MB by putting 2 256k VRAM SIMMs into the VRAM SIMM slots on the Q800's motherboard. >Bonus question: where do VRAM SIMMs hide? From the 950 documentation, they >seem to be *behind* the power supply. Do I really have to take off the power >supply to access the VRAM SIMMs? Yup. You have to take off the power supply. It's only a couple of screws so you should be ok. Just make sure that everything is disconnected from it and watch out for static discharges. ",4 "Re: COMMENTS ==> VIDEO BLASTER (Creative Labs) In article <794@wpsun4.UUCP> mikgr@wpsun4.UUCP (Michael Grant) writes: >In article <1993Apr14.062219.11573@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, mej0381@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: >> >In <115080@bu.edu> heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser) writes: >> > >> >>In article randy@chinet.chi.il.us (Randy Suess) w >> >rites: >> >>>>The video blaster doesn't work with the ATI GRaphics Ultra Pro, doesn't work >> >>>>with >15M system RAM. >> > >> >>Are you serious? So I can't use a Video Blaster in my 16mb 486/33? >> >>What are the alternatives (other than removing memory?) >> > >> >Get a better one. Hows about the Win/TV thing? >> >-- >> >The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn | banshee@cats.UCSC.EDU | >> >Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head? | | >> >oD#0667 ""Just a friend of the beast."" | banshee@ucscb.UCSC.EDU | >> >2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....| banshee@ucscb.BITNET | >> >> No good. I perfer WatchIT TV. It can run in DOS and Windows. Win/Tv only run in >> windows. Sorry.... >> >> -- >Still no good. WatchIT TV will not work on a with local bus video. >It will not work in any high reolution modes either. The people who >make the card assure me that they will have a card available in June >that supports both local-bus and hi-res. BTW does anyone know the >name of the company who makes watchit tv? Phone #? BBS? Internet? > >Thanks > >Michael Grant >(mikgr@wordperfect.com) or >(mikgr@wpsun4.uunet.uu.net) > I have a promovie spectrum, it seems to work very nicely with Video for Windows. With my setup (386-25, 17 ms HD, PAS-16, and orchid F VA), the board could handle up to 15 frame/s. Eric. ",3 "Re: Binyamin Netanyahu on CNN tonight. In article , hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes: |> In article <1qhuhm$ep8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes: |> |> [ in reference to Benjamin Netanyahu ] |> |> didn't this guy go crying on the ""zionist"" tv confessing |> that he committed adultary, and was cheating on his wife.. |> |> a typical jew leader, huh? |> |> Just to remind all loyal listeners, Benjamin is the brother of |> Yonatan Netanyahu. Do we all remember Entebbe? Absolutely. If Yoni and Bibi Natanyahu are ""typical jew leader""s, then I personally am proud to aspire to such a status (disregarding Hamaza H. Salah's negative connotation of Jews). Yoni was a great man and a Harvard grad who died for his country and people. Bibi is also a great leader who will undoubtedly be a major force in Middle East politics for many years to come. |> Harry. Gedaliah Friedenberg -=-Department of Mechanical Engineering -=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science -=-Michigan State University ",17 "CFV: comp.windows.suit CALL FOR VOTES: creation of comp.windows.suit A Request For Discussion was posted on 26 Mar 1993, and both charter and group name have been accepted. Charter ======= What is SUIT? ------------- SUIT provides a standard library of screen components (buttons, menus, sliders, etc.), and allows interactive layout and specification of user interfaces. The user interface to a SUIT program is editable even while the application runs. Programs using SUIT are written in ANSI-C. SUIT runs on UNIX/X, Color Macintosh, DOS, and Windows ; a single application source file may be recompiled to run on all platforms. SUIT was designed to be easy to learn - we view it as ""the Pascal of UI toolkits."" Learning from a 10-page written tutorial, our undergraduates have been able to use SUIT productively after 2 hours. This is possible because we rely more heavily on interactive tools than previous toolkits, and because the entire system as been designed to be easy to learn. SUIT's biggest advantages are: - it runs across a very wide variety of hardware platforms - it has a documented 2 hour learning curve for beginners - it's very lightweight; relatively small amount of code SUIT has now been distributed to thousands of sites, and has reached all continents but Antarctica. It has also been used in graduate courses at some universities, including Stanford. The suit-users mailing list now has nearly 100 participants and has message traffic of 10-15 per day. Some users have unsubcribed already, citing the volume of mail as the main reason. We feel that this justifies a newsgroup. Details of the newsgroup ------------------------ comp.windows.suit will be an unmoderated forum that will handle all aspects of SUIT, including: - questions about SUIT - bug reports - distribution of contributory code - announcement of new releases Voting ------ Voting will begin when this CFV is posted, and will end on May 14, 1993 at 23:59 EST. In order for the group to be created, there must be a 2/3 majority of yes votes to no votes, and there must be 100 more yes votes than no votes. To vote yes, please send mail to: suit-yes@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu To vote no, please send mail to: suit-no@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu All votes will receive an acknowledgement. If there is a problem, please DO NOT send mail to either of these addresses; send them to the one below. The subject field must be unambiguous; for example, ""I vote for/against comp.windows.suit"" Conditional votes, which may receive an acknowledgement initially, will be rejected. No anonymous votes will be accepted. If you wish to change your vote, mail a new vote; only the most recent vote by a user will be counted. If you have problems, questions, or comments, please mail them to: suit-admin@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu where we will attempt to respond as quickly as possible. Over this period, two additional CFVs will be posted, along with an acknowledgement of valid votes. Thanks, The SUIT Newsgroup Team ",5 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article , visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes: |> |> Then I would suppose that the government would be guilty of |> manslaughter. Burning people out of a house to end a seige is still |> beyond the edge of whats legal currently. You could accidently set |> fire to the house as the result of some other act, but deliberatly |> burning the house to get them to come out would be murder if any of |> them died. |> Read the articles about the ""arrest"" of Randy Weaver. The BATF were on the verge of using these very tactics on a house containing children and were only stopped by the arrival of the press on the scene. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | ""There are no evil thoughts, Mr. Reardon"" Francisco bill@cs.uofs.edu | said softly, ""except one; the refusal to think."" University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ",19 "Re: How do I find my AppContext? In a prior article masc0442@ucsnews.sdsu.edu (Todd Greene) said: > Is there an Xt call to give me my application context? > I am fixing up an X/Motif program, and am trying to use XtAppAddTimeOut, > whose first argument is the app_context. What call can I use > to give me this value? XtAppContext XtWidgetToApplicationContext(Widget) Of course, just using the app context returned from XtCreateApplicationContext, XtAppInitialize, etc. is the best option, unless that path is not available. ",5 "How do they know what keys to ask for? (Re: Clipper) This may be a stupid question, but how does the government know which keys to ask for? Will owners be required to REGISTER their phones, faxes, modems, etc., and inform the government when they are moved to a different phone number? Will there be penalities if the public does not do this? Will identification (the National Health Care ID, perhaps) be required when purchasing a Clipper-equipted phone? Or will each chip transmit identifying information at the start of a conversation? Identification which could be used to automatically log who calls whom? (The _phone_ company keeps records, but this information would be accessable by a well-placed van near a microwave relay station). This raises the question of how the two phones agree on a communications encryption key. Will it be something that is derived from information exchanged at the start of the conversation -- and hence derivable by an eavesdropper? -- Bear Giles bear@fsl.noaa.gov ",11 "Weird problem with GM 4-banger transmission I'm having an interesting problem with my girlfriend's car. Before I delve into its innards, I thought I'd check ""net.wisdom"" on the subject. :) It's a 1985 Buick Skyhawk (I know...I know) 2.0l EFI 4-banger auto 35k miles When I drive tha car long enough to get it hot (especially at highways speeds) the transmission has this nasty habit of getting ""stuck"" in 3rd gear. As a result, when you stop for a light the motor stalls. Putting the car in park, and waiting for 30-60 seconds before restarting sometimes allows the transmission to ""reset"" and go back into 1st. Otherwise, it just stalls when put in drive. My thoughts: Either it the 3rd gear band is binding and getting stuck when it gets hot (not so likely) or perhaps the lock-up converter is not disengaging properly (seems likely). The least likely (keeping fingers crossed) is that some critical vacuum hose has broken/cracked and this behaviour is due to lack of vaccuum somewhere (as used to happen with old modulator valves). My background is that my father owns a service station and I worked there on and off from 10-19 years of age. Please feel free to be as technical as you want. :) I'd appreciate hearing any tips/suggestions/offers of free beer. Skoal, Chris ",7 "Re: Need rules for 2 floppy and twisted cable installation In article <1993Apr21.005911.8032@ncar.ucar.edu> fredrick@acd.ucar.edu (Timothy Fredrick) writes: > >I am looking for information on how to install a 5.25"" floppy as Drive >A:, a 3.25"" floppy as drive B:, a twisted cable (with the twist between >the two floppy connectors), and a controller. For example, should both >drives have drive select=1? Depends on the FDC but generally No. The drive at the end after the twist should be set as Drive 0 >What about the terminating resistor pack that's in the 5.25"" floppy? >Which connector should go into which drive? Since you're using the 5.25 as drive A: it should be at the end after the twist with the resistor pack fitted. >Does pin-0 on the connector always correspond with pin-0 on the floppy >drive? Yes > Stuff deleted Hope this helps. I had exactly the same problems. Unfortunately when I changed to different machine the problems started again because of a different FDC. Seems (don't flame me, this is mainly guess work from practicle experience) that some FDC's do different things with the select. John. ",3 "Improvements in Automatic Transmissions The biggest hurdle for automatics (IMHO) is not shifting speed per se, but rather the transmission's reaction speed when you try to force it to shift manually. This was the biggest fault with the Subaru ECVT -- it took SOOOOOO LONNNNNNNNGGGGG for the tranny to find the right ratio. The sales propaganda says the Saturn automatic is effectively an electronically-shifted manual. Might this mean that Saturn has conquered the problem? (I dunno, only driven Saturn 5-speeds) INPUT, PLEASE! Another question: Any plans for a manual-trans Chrysler LH? Does anyone else out there fall asleep at night dreaming of this combo? ",7 "Re: Spark Plug question? In article mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden) writes: > The nice thing about REAL platinum plugs is that you don't have to change >them very often at all. (I think like 50,000 miles!!) They might cost $10 >each, but they would save for themselves in the long run. My T-Bird SC's manual says to replace the platinum plugs every 60,000mi. Wal-Mart has Autolite platinum plugs for $2.00 each. Are these ""real"" platinum plugs? (I had Bosch platinums in my '80 Fiesta and my dad had 'em in his '84 Bronco--note the keyword ""had."" They didn't last very long (much less than 50,000mi) before they had to be replaced. I agree that they weren't the greatest.) James James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work... The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC ""It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has and all he's ever gonna have."" --Will Munny, ""Unforgiven"" ",7 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? >Although I'm an atheist, the events in Waco have really sickened me. It's >truely a sad day for religious freedom in this country. The Branch >Dividians may have been nutty (my general opinion of all religious people), >but tax evasion and illegal possesion of firearms are certainly not grounds >for destroying a people. Excuse me? WHO destroyed the BD's? Last I knew, they burned themselves... Prove to me that the FBI, ATF, or the Government in general either burned the compound themselves, or that the BD's had no choice but to commit mass suicide rather than coming out peacefully (a promise that was made twice by Koresh himself, which he broke both times). -- John Mechalas ""I'm not an actor, but mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu I play one on TV."" Aero Engineering, Purdue University #include disclaimer.h ",19 "Re: new encryption psionic@wam.umd.edu (Haywood J. Blowme) writes: > Additonally I spoke with Mr. Melnick about their algorithm. He couldn't tell > me much about their new agorithm because it hasn't been patented yet. [...] > Right now the company is afraid that the new clipper chip will put them out > of business. This is a very real possibility. So they really need help in > stopping the clipper chip from becoming a standard. If they're planning on patenting an algorithm, then I hope they go out of business as quickly as possible. And you can tell them I said that. I'm sure many other readers of these newsgroups will agree, too. mathew ",11 "Randy Weaver trial update: Day 1. Here is a copy of my first update on the Randy Weaver trial. After a large response (about 15 email messages), I've decided that there is sufficient interest here on t.p.g. to warrant posting. *** file follows *** Hi Folks; As perhaps the only Boise resident on the list, I guess it kind of falls on me to keep people updated about the Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial. Yesterday marked the seating of the jury. Apparently no other legal activities occurred. The jury was selected and things start today. More interesting is what happenned outside. About a dozen Weaver supporters showed up to stage a protest outside the courthouse. One woman carried a sign that read, ""Who stands trial for the murder of Vicki and (son's name - I forget) Weaver?"" On the evening news she said, ""I am here protesting because I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I thought we all did."" Nice sound bite (grin)! The news reporter also interviewed some guy named ""Tim"" who refused to give his last name. Not to prejudge the guy, but he looked like a neo-nazi. He also said he expected many neo-nazis to show up throughout the trial. ""Tim"" had been handing out leaflets in support of Weaver and Harris and the news had footage of a Boise cop telling him to move along or he'd arrest. I don't know the finer points of this one. Perhaps there's a law against political activity within X feet of a courthouse or something (what happenned to the First Amendment?!?). Most ominous of all was that the local reporter filmed an agent of the Gestapo...err...ATF with a minicam FILMING THE PROTESTORS! Welcome to the world of Big Brother. Anyhow, Gerry Spence came out and asked the protestors to leave because he didn't think it would help Weaver's case any. He said he was confident that, once the evidence came out, that Weaver would be aquitted. More stuff as it comes available. Drew ",16 "Re: Playoff telecasts in Atlanta In article hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl) writes: > >I'd personally prefer Buffalo-Boston, as a birthday gift from ESPN, >but I don't think the folks at ESPN will accomodate that for me ;-) >ESPN has this inexplicable affinity for the Patrick division, it >seems. > First,Happy Birthday,Val. Second, ESPN's affinity with Patrick has probably more to do with the travel/production costs for a once a week NHN(National Hockey Night) affair.(ESPN-ABC owner,Capital Cities, is a company known for being quite thrifty with minimal overhead costs. It's quite possible that Jim Schoenfeld may be working for doughnuts :-). Gary Thorne and Bill Clement are both NJ-based and the rest of ESPN crew resides in the suburban CT with a very close proximity to tri-state area. Plus,it makes sense in terms of solid hockey following in the NorthEast corridor(PA-NY-NJ-DC/Maryland). Whereas,in the Adams you have only 3-American based teams, out of which 2(Buffalo and Hartford) are not in Top-20 US TV-markets. -PPV Mark ",10 "Re: warranty extension by credit company: applies to the phurchase of computer? In article , staggers@cup.hp.com (Ken Staggers) writes: |> HUAYONG YANG (yang@titan.ucs.umass.edu) wrote: |> : Most, if not all, credit card companies offer to double the warranty up |> : to one year, namely, if you make a purchase by a credit card, you get |> : additional warranty up to one year. Does it apply to the purchase of |> : computers? I wonder if anyone out there has used it. Is there any catch? |> : Thanks in advance. |> |> I am just about to post the results of my big computer purchase. One |> of the key points was the ability to use my American Express card. I |> read the fine print between double warranty policies of Amex and Citibank |> VISA. Sure, both will allow you double warranty on computers, but Citibank |> has a maximum claim of $250.00. Could you imagine trying to get your |> monitor or mother board fixed for $250.00? Amex has NO limit on claims. |> |> Remember, if you use Amex, you must either send a copy of the warranty info |> to them in 30 days from purchase, or you must call them to pre-register and |> then send them the paperwork within 90 days of purchase (my pre-register |> pak arrived today). Citibank VISA requires no pre-registration. |> |> --Ken |> I just talked to a rep for my AT&T mastercard regarding this: There is no maximum claim, and you only have to notify them of the warranty when the item needs repair. If it can't be repaired, you get the amount you paid for it. Curiously though, the AT&T Gold mastercard has a limit of $1000 on claims. Definitely not upgrading to that card...:) -Bryan -- Bryan Welch Amateur Radio: N0SFG Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb ",3 "Re: The Inimitable Rushdie I apologize for the long delay in getting a response to this posted. I've been working reduced hours the past couple of weeks because I had a son born (the day after Umar's article was posted, btw). I did respond within a couple of days, but it turns out that a a coincidental news software rearrangement caused postings from this site to silently disappear rather than going out into the world. This is a revision of that original response. In article khan@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Umar Khan) writes: >In article <1ps98fINNm2u@dsi.dsinc.com> perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes: >>Only a functional illiterate with absolutely no conception of the >>nature of the novel could think such a thing. [this was in response to the claim that ""Rushdie made false statements about the life of Mohammed"", with the disclaimer ""(fiction, I know, but where is the line between fact and fiction?) - I stand by this distinction between fiction and ""false statements""] >>However, it's not for his writing in _The Satanic Verses_, but for >>what people have accepted as a propagandistic version of what is >>contained in that book. I have yet to find *one single muslim* who >>has convinced me that they have read the book. Some have initially >>claimed to have done so, but none has shown more knowledge of the book >>than a superficial Newsweek story might impart, and all have made >>factual misstatements about events in the book. > >You keep saying things like this. Then, you accuse people like me of >making ad hominem arguments. I repeat, as I have said in previous >postings on AA: I *have* read TSV from cover to cover I had not seen that claim, or I might have been less sweeping. You have made what I consider factual misstatements about events in the book, which I have raised in the past, in the ""ISLAM: a clearer view"" thread as well as the root of the ""Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]"" thread. My statement was not that you had not read the book, but that you had not convinced me that you [inter alia] had. As I said before, if you want to defend your position, then produce evidence, and respond to the evidence I have posted; so far you have not. Of course, my statement was not directly aimed at you, but broadly at a number of Muslim posters who have repeated propaganda about the book, indicating that they haven't read it, and narrowly at Gregg Jaeger, who subsequently admitted that he hadn't in fact read the book, vindicating my skepticism in at least that one case. So far, the only things I have to go on regarding your own case are a) the statements you made concerning the book in the ""a clearer view"" posting, which I have challenged (not interpretation, but statements of fact, for instance ""Rushdie depicts the women of the most respected family in all of Islam as whores""), and b) your claim (which I had not seen before this) that you have indeed read it cover to cover. I am willing to try to resolve this down to a disagreement on critical interpretation, but you'll have to support your end, by responding to my criticism. I have no doubt as to the ability of a particular Muslim to go through this book with a highlighter finding passages to take personal offense at, but you have upheld the view that ""TSV *is* intended as an attack on Islam and upon Muslims"". This view must be defended by more than mere assertion, if you want anyone to take it seriously. >I am trying very hard to be amicable and rational. And I appreciate it, but welcome to the club. I am defending my honest opinion that this book should not be construed as a calculated (or otherwise) insulting attack on Islam, and the parallel opinion that most of the criticism of the book I have seen is baseless propaganda. I have supported my statements and critical interpretationa with in-context quotes from the book and Rushdie's essays, which is more than my correspondents have done. Of course, you are more than welcome to do so. -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. ",0 "Re: Nazi Eugenic Theories Circulated by In my postings I have made a proposal for comments and discussion. Those who don't want to discuss its merits and drawbacks are not forced to do so. However I would make anybody who incites others to harm me or harass in a personal manner, legally responsible for their deeds. I cannot accept and will not accept threats to my personal integrity and I urge anybody who opposes terror to refrain from direct or indriect threats. PS: My proposal has nothing to do with Nazi eugenics. It has to do with the search for peace which would enable justice. I don't consider that justice is done, when non-Jews who fled or were expelled in 1948/1967 are not permitted to return to their homeland. This can at best be called pragmatism, a nice word for legitimizing the rule of the strong. It can never be called justice. And peace without justice will never be peace. It is my conviction that the situation in which a state, through the law, attempts to discourage mixed marriages (as Israel does), is not normal. Such a state resembles more Nazi Germany and South Africa than Western democracies, such as the United States, in which Jews are free to marry whom they wish and do so in the thousands. My proposal may have drawbacks but it is meant to force anybody to anything, just to compensate for a certain time mixed couples for the hardships tehy endure in a society which disapproves of intermarriage.When the day will come and Israel will become a truly civil and decmoractic society, in which the state is not concerned with the religious or ethnic affiliation of its constituency, such a Fund would not be needed any more. I don't mind if Jews wish to marry Jews and keep their traditions, why not ? But this is not the affairs of a state. Western democracy clearly separates these domains and I am certain that most American Jews enjoy this fact and would not love to live in a state termed Christian State and to have their Green cards stamped with a mark JEW. I would ask those who are genuinely interested in an exchange of views and personal experiencces to refrain from emotional, infantile outbursts which might leed readers to infer that Jews who respect Judaism are uncivilized. Such behaviour is not good for Judaism. Elias ",17 "Re: What is the difference between Raytracing and rendering? zlg1409@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Zhenhai Li ) writes: | Hello, I've raytraced and rendered and the only difference I've found | is that raytracing takes a hell of a lot longer. Am I missing something? Yes. There are many methods of rendering, raytracing is one of them. You didn't say what you mean by rendering, so I won't guess. Methods of rendering include: o Pencil and graph paper, doing the math by hand o Wireframe rendering of the 2D projection o Hidden line rendering o Scanline rendering using: - Painter's algorithm. - BSP trees. - Z buffer - Other o Raytracing o Radiosity o Holographic projection to film o Combination of any of the above ______________________________________________________________________________ Steve Hollasch Kubota Pacific Computer, Inc. hollasch@kpc.com Santa Clara, California ",1 "Transmitter tube I've got an Eimac 818A/4PR1000A transmitter/linear amplifier tube, unused, in original packaging (but opened and inventoried). I'd guarantee this tube to operate and be as observation and its paperwork say (unused), although I have no transmitter to test it with. Offers? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Medin Phone: (205) 730-3169 (w) SSD--Networking (205) 837-1174 (h) Intergraph Corp. M/S GD3004 Internet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com Huntsville, AL 35894 UUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) ******* * The opinions expressed here are mine (or those of my machine) ",6 "Re: Point within a polygon In article jonas-y@isy.liu.se (Jonas Yngvesson) writes: > Intersection Between a Line and a Polygon (UNDECIDABLE??), > by Dave Baraff, Tom Duff > > From: deb@charisma.graphics.cornell.edu > In recent years, many geometric problems have been successfully modeled in a > new language called PostScript. (See ""PostScript Language"", by Adobe Systems > Incorporated, ISBN # 0-201-10179-3, co. 1985). > > So, given a line L and a polygon P, we can write a PostScript program that > draws the line L and the polygon P, and then ""outputs"" the answer. By > ""output"", we mean the program executes a command called ""showpage"", which > actually prints a page of paper containing the line and the polygon. A quick > examination of the paper provides an answer to the reduced problem Q, and thus > the original problem. Curiously, in modern PostScript, the point in a polygon problem can be solved even more easily. To wit: %! %%Title: Point in Polygon %%Creator: Allen B (ab@cc.purdue.edu) %%For: the amusement of comp.graphics regulars %%LanguageLevel: 2 %%DocumentNeededResource: humor sense thereof %%EndComments % This program will test whether a point is inside a given polygon. % Currently it uses the even-odd rule, but that can be changed by % replacing ineofill with infill. These are Level 2 operators, % so if you've only got Level 1 you're out of luck. % % The result will be printed on the output stream. % % Caution: only accurate to device pixels! % Put a huge scale in first if you aren't sure. % Point to test % PUT X AND Y COORDINATES HERE 50 75 % Vertices of polygon in counter-clockwise order % PUT ARRAY OF PAIRS OF COORDINATES HERE [ [ 0 0 ] [ 100 0 ] [ 100 100 ] [ 67 100 ] [ 67 50 ] [ 33 50 ] [ 33 100 ] [ 0 100 ] ] dup 0 get aload pop moveto dup length 1 dup 3 1 roll sub getinterval { aload pop lineto } forall closepath ineofill { (Yes!) } { (No!) } ifelse = ",1 "Re: Adobe Photo Shop type software for Unix/X/Motif platforms? Charles Boesel writes > > In article (sci.image.processing,comp.graphics), wdm@world.std.com (Wayne Michael) writes: > > I have been searching for a quality image enhancement and > > manipulation package for Unix/X/Motif platforms that is comparable > > to Adobe Photo Shop for the Mac. [stuff deleted] > > I understand that Adobe is working on making Photoshop available for > the SGI Indigo, but that is just ""rumor"" and I wouldn't bet on it > until I see it. But they >are< going to release Illustrator for the SGI > ""real soon now."" > Illustrator for SGI is a shipping product. Adobe and SGI have announced that Photoshop is being ported to SGI machines. A simillar announcement has been made by Adobe and Sun for Sun platforms. No dates have been announced to the best of my knowledge. -- Zalman Stern zalman@adobe.com (415) 962 3824 Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900 ""We're just a couple of joyful little pervo-goats."" -- Akbar (Jeff?) ",1 "J.C.Jensen's bitmap code Greetings all. According to a FAQ I read, on 30 July 1992, Joshua C. Jensen posted an article on bitmap manipulation (specifically, scaling and perspective) to the newsgroup rec.games.programmer. (article 7716) The article included source code in Turbo Pascal with inline assembly language. I have been unable to find an archive for this newsgroup, or a current email address for Joshua C. Jensen. If anyone has the above details, or a copy of the code, could they please let me know. Many thanks. Yours gratefully, etc. Myles. -- Myles Strous | Email: myles.strous@lib.monash.edu.au raytracing fan | Phone: +61.51.226536 ""Got the same urgent grasp of reality as a cardboard cut-out. Proud to have him on the team."" Archchancellor Mustrum Ridcully, in Reaper Man by Terry Pratchett ",1 "Re: 14 Apr 93 God's Promise in 1 John 1: 7 In article <1qknu0INNbhv@shelley.u.washington.edu> sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman) writes: >In article pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: >>In article >> >>Human blood sacrifice! Martyrdom of an innocent virgin! ""Nailed"" to a >>wooden pole! What is this obsession with male menstruation? > >Christian: washed in the blood of the lamb. >Mithraist: washed in the blood of the bull. > >If anyone in .netland is in the process of devising a new religion, >do not use the lamb or the bull, because they have already been >reserved. Please choose another animal, preferably one not >on the Endangered Species List. > > How about Cockroaches? -- ***************************** porta@wam.umd.edu **************************** What for you say you monkey when you have little fluffy tail like rabbit, rabbit! Tazmanian Devil ",19 "Re: Some more about gun control... In article , jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John Lawrence Rutledge) writes: > >No not, unconditional, but ""shall not be infringed"". Infringed >is defined as: > To break or ignore the terms of or obligations (an oath, > an agreement, law, or the like); to disreguard; violate. > To go beyond the boundaries or limits; tresspass; encroach. >This definition implies the following of some form of existing >agreement. Laws and agreements are made in advance. The rights guaranteed by the Constitution were considered to be pre-existing. The only agreement was that they exist. Therefore, no law grants such rights. Laws can only guarantee, protect, or infringe such rights. Websters Third New International Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged 1986 infringe 1.a. to break down:DESTROY b. DEFEAT, FRUSTRATE c. CONFUTE, REFUTE d. IMPAIR, WEAKEN 2. to commit a breach of : neglect to fulfill or obey : VIOLATE, TRANSGRESS vi : ENCROACH, TRESPASS infringement 1. the act of infringing : BREACH, VIOLATION, NONFULFILLMENT 2. an encroachment or trespass on a right or priveledge : TRESPASS ~~~~~ Now, by what stretch of the imagination do you get your ideas about infringement of rights? Al [standard disclaimer] ",16 "Re: moving icons In article <1bp0rAHPBh107h@viamar.UUCP> rutgers!viamar!kmembry writes: >I remember reading about a program that made windows icons run away >from the mouse as it moved near them. Does anyone know the name >of this program and the ftp location (probably at cica) > The file is frite20.zip and you'll find it in the 'icons' directory at Cica. The one line description is: Afflict Your Icons with ""Cursorphobia"" ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ o | Paul Blackman pwb@science.canberra.edu.au o | Water Research Centre, pwb@aerg.canberra.edu.au o _ | Faculty of Applied Science -- ("") o | University of Canberra, Australia. \_|_-- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | ""Spend a little love and get high"" _/ \_ | - Lenny Kravitz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",2 "Re: Lincoln & slavery (Was Re: Top Ten Tricks...) In article <1993Apr4.005634.24695@isc-br.isc-br.com>, steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes: > In article <1993Apr3.002339.22888@rigel.econ.uga.edu> depken@rigel.econ.uga.edu (Craig Depken) writes: > >In article <1993Apr2.154232.29527@Princeton.EDU> glhewitt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt) writes: # # ""labor"" is a tough one. Labor is defined, economically, as the efforts, # # both mental and physical, of humans. Capital is defined as intermediate # # goods used to create other goods and services. Now, if a slave is considered # # an intermediate good, then the slave has now been dehumanized and is # # simply a machine. Not good for the anti-slave (i.e. pro-human rights) # # argument. So, slaves are humans, and they produce labor. # # Sorry. The question of defining slave ""labor"" is no ""tough(er)"" than # defining the ""labor"" of a horse, an ox, or any other livestock. Both # legally and economically in a slave-economy, ""slaves are (NOT) humans,"" # they are livestock. Can you provide some evidence that the slave states regarded slaves as not humans? They were ""outside our society"" and similar phrases that basically meant that they didn't have to recognized as having the same rights as a free person, but they were never considered ""not human"" to my knowledge. # Like a horse that pulls a plow, a slave's ""labor"" is the return on the # capital required to purchase and feed him. The parallel is so obvious # I'm not sure how you missed it. After all, its was the ""liberty"" to # use their ""property"" as they saw fit that motivated Southern planters # to emphasize the importance of ""states' rights."" If that were the case, the slave states would not have passed so many laws that restricted the freedom of slave owners to do as they wished with their property. Examples: laws prohibiting manumission without legislative grant; laws prohibiting teaching slaves to read & write. # #Craig. # Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Re: Ami Pro 3.0 and PCTools compress?!? Doesn't like being moved? Sorry about that - don't want to alarm anyone... I don't think there is any correlation between the crashes and PCTools. I reinstalled Ami Pro, and ran compress again, with no problems. I think problems may have been related to filling my disk until it had 0 bytes (!) left while FTPing, although I would think it wouldn't matter since Ami Pro wasn't running at the time, and I made space available immediately anyways. But, whatever, the cause, it is working now. -Derek ",2 "Re: Waco Questions | The U.S. Government has become a garrotte around the necks of its | citizens. Just as with a garrotte, the more people struggle to breathe | the air of freedom, the more the government tightens its stranglehold. The | only possible outcomes at this point are the death of government or the | elimination of personal freedom. I think this is a little extreme, i am concerned about a couple of things i've seen lately. It seems to me that the government is *beginning* to enforce political correctness. the first King verdict was polically incorrect so the hell with constutitional protection from double jeopardy, try the cops again. the BD's are far as i can tell didn't do anything wrong. nothing that would justify the horrable end they were subjected too. they were simply polically incorrect in the extream. i can't help but wonder ""who's next"" jim shirreffs i speak for myself and only myself ",16 "Re: Don Cherry - help me out, here LMARSHA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Laurie Marshall) writes: >Don got his nickname 'Grapes' but I'm not sure. Don use to coach the >Boston Bruins. I don't know exactly when that was. Could someone fill >me in on this info? I think that the name 'grapes' came because as coach (for the Bruins ? or in the minors ?) he used to chew on grapes to keep from getting dehydrated during the games. His dog Blue may have been named 'cause he liked Labatts beer ... anyone know about that ? ",10 "(new) reason for Clipper alg'm secrecy [Apologies for not posting to alt.clipper, or whatever, but it seems it may not be in the newsfeed here.] There may be another reason (good from NSA's point of view, horrible from everyone else's) why the algorithm/chip design might be secret. First, note that the ""experts"" will only look at ""details"", and of just the algorithm: In addition, respected experts from outside the government will be offered access to the confidential details of the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report their findings. Why not the chip design? Well, here's the possiblity: in addition to encryption, the chip pre-processes voice signals to make them easier to analyze/transcribe electronically. The chip, once widespread, might effectively be part of a massively parallel computer for ""voice- grepping"" the US phone network (or the criminal & wrong-thinking patrons thereof). I wouldn't put it past the NSA. Think how much easier it would make life for them. And if this is indeed the case, think of the possible public outcry should it become widely known. Thus the secrecy. It might be a good idea to have experts in DSP, voice recognition, and AI conversation-understanding to be on that panel, and insist they be given (authenticatable) design specs and implementation documentation. +========================================================================+ | dwight tuinstra best: tuinstra@sandman.ece.clarkson.edu | | tolerable: tuinstrd@craft.camp.clarkson.edu | | | | Look out, kid, it's something that you did. | | God knows when, but you're doin' it again ... | +========================================================================+ ",11 "Re: ""Hardware that Fits"" mail order In article <735578811.26264.0@unix1.andrew.cmu.edu>, Christopher Bruce Kidwell writes... >I ordered an external floppy drive from them 2 years ago. When I placed >the order, they said it was in stock and would ship the next day. A week >passed and no drive. I called them up and they said they were out of stock >and my drive should ship in 2 weeks or so. Since I needed the drive right >away (both my internal hard drive and floppy were dead) I cancelled my >order and haven't dealt with them since. > >Chris Kidwell >ck31@andrew.cmu.edu I too had a very unpleasant experience with ""Hardware That's Shi*"". It featured repeated lies about when things had shipped, a salesperson who was totally ignorant about what he was selling, a charge for duties I had specifically been assured were not payable and then a monitor (their house brand 2-page monochrome) that was the most unadulterated piece of junk it has ever been my misfortune to experience in the world of electronics. I shipped it back and they refunded my money, but it still cost me something over $200 for long distance charges, non-refundable taxes and duties and lost time. Don't deal with them. ",4 "Re: Changing oil by self. In article <1993Apr15.222254.6651@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker) writes: |> Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that |> pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an |> excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more |> old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine. |> The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into |> your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to |> the local oil recycle center. This does sound good, but I heard it tends to leave more grit, etc in the oil pan. Also, I've been told to change the old when it's hot before the grit has much time to settle. Any opinions? -- Bryan Welch Amateur Radio: N0SFG Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Disclaimer: It's all opinion. Everything. So there. ",7 "Adlib sound board for sale! I have an Adlib sound board for sale. It includes the original disks, and I'll throw in a Windows 3.1 .WAV sound file driver. For those of you that are using your PC Speaker for games, this will be a much welcomed board for your PC! $70.00 includes shipping to your home or office. Email: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Bitz Internet: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu Research and Development bitzm@dsuvax.dsu.edu Dakota State University Bitnet: s93020@sdnet.bitnet ",6 "Re: the usual arc@cco.caltech.edu (Aaron Ray Clements) writes: >I was under the impression that to obtain fissionable materials (i.e., >plutonium or reactor/weapons-grade uranium) one was required to obtain >a federal permit to own such materials. No, you merely have to start working on yellowcake or else devise a system to get it from other sources. BTW: the DOE handles reactor fuel, and merely leases it to reactors. The NRC certifies these reactors. The military have their own sources. A private citizen has none of these official sources. >Actually, why bother looking it up? From the material we covered last >term (in 10 weeks) of Ge/Ch 127 (Nuclear Chemistry), I could *derive* >what it would take to build a bomb. That's freshman-level chemistry. Big deal. Can you make it work? That's PhD-level physics. Big difference. > And as far as the explosive charge, >I (as a chemist) could synthesize a variety of explosives from commonly >available chemicals in the garage if I felt like. The electronics >behind the detonator and the shaped charges are a little trickier, >however . . . but not impossible using a few ""tricks of the trade."" >And if I really wanted to be nasty, I could include a core of >hydrogen and deuterium . . . So you admit that there's no law that could stop you? Physics aside, could you make one if you had the funds and time? The answer is yes. So, do we lock you up now because of this? Surely you can see where the comparison with anti-gun laws comes into play here? >Of course, the hardest part is getting the fissionable material >to start with, and living long enough to put a bomb together. >(Plutonium has some *nasty* properties . . .) Precisely why it's not as readily utilized as you seem to have been lead to believe. BTW: 98% U235 is far better for home-made bombs than trying to use plutonium. The laws of physics make the creation of a device without serious manufacturing facilities very low in probability. < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > ",16 "Re: The Laws of God (was Re: A KIND and LOVING God!!) In article <1993Apr22.153528.10877@ra.royalroads.ca>, mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) wrote: > Eternal damnation is the consequence of the choice one makes in rejecting > God. If you choose to jump off a cliff, you can hardly blame God for you > going *splat* at the bottom. He knows that if you choose to jump, that > you will die but He will not prevent you from making that choice. In fact, > He sent His Son to stand on the edge of the cliff and tell everyone of what > lies below. To prove that point, Jesus took that plunge Himself but He being > God was able to rise up again. I have seen the example of Christ and have > chosen not to jump and I'm trying to tell you not to jump or else you'll > go *splat*. > > You don't have to listen to me and I won't stop you if you decide to jump. > I only ask that you check it out before taking the plunge. You owe it to > yourself. I don't like seeing anyone go *splat*. I'm for the moment interested in this notion of the 'leap of faith' established by Kierkegaard. It clearly points out a possible solution to transcendental values. What I don't understand is that it also clearly shows the existentialism system where any leap to any transcendental direction is equal. In other words I might not jump off the cliff mentioned above, but at the same time I will decide to what direction I will go. Actually I will do it just now. Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",19 "Low cost oscilloscopes? I am looking at buying a low cost (< $500) scope for general purpose use. Any recommendations? Is this info in a faq somewhere? Any pointers appreciated. Thanks, -Gerard. ****************************************************************** * Gerard Talatinian | * * Network Systems | gtalatin@ucs.indiana.edu * * University Computing Services | FAX: (812) 855-8299 * * Indiana University | Voice: (812) 855-0962 * ****************************************************************** ",12 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? >In article , gsager@heliacal.Eng.Sun.COM (Gary Sager) writes... >>work, it was pointed out that this should only be done with monitors >>with the power switch on front. . . . > This is a pet peeve of mine. I wish companies would put power switches on the > front of the equipment! If my Apple monitor had the switch on the front, I > would happily power it off at night. Almost every piece of computer equipment > I own/use has the switch on the back (including external hard drives and > modems--why?). I hope front-mounted switches become the norm, and soon. It is just extra wire and work to put the switch in front. Usually the easiest place to put the switch is wherever the power cord enters the machine, and people HATE power cords on the front!! I prefer a power strip. ",4 "Re: Countersteering_FAQ please post egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes: >In article 735312515@zen.sys.uea.ac.uk, mjs@sys.uea.ac.uk (Mike Sixsmith) writes: >> ed>1. All of us that argue about gyroscopes, etc., throughly understand ed>the technique of countersteering. me>Including all the ones who think that they countersteer all the way me>through a corner?? ed>Well... all the way through a decreasing-radius corner, anyway... Maybe they are riding around an ever-decreasing circle of lies which eventually leads to the truth.... me>The official line here (though I do have my doubts about it) is that the me>front brake is applied first, followed by the rear brake, the idea being me>that you avoid locking up the rear after weight transfer takes place. >If that's the ""official line"" taught in those rider education classes >you were refering to, that also don't teach countersteering, I have to >question the quality of the classes. Me too, though unfortunately the ""Official Line"" is the one that you have to adhere to if you want to get a full licence. The examiner's guidelines are laid down by the government, and the basic rider education courses have no choice but to follow them. It surprises me that none of the rider groups here, either MAG or the BMF make much noise about the fact that the riding test requires you to ride three feet from the kerb all the time in order to pass, that the front brake must be applied before the rear, that you have to keep looking over your shoulder all the time (instead of just when it is justified) - there's probably a few more too, which I can't think of for the moment. If the riding test could be rejigged a bit to include more of the real-world survival skills and less of the woefully simplistic crap that it contains now, then the accident figures would (imho) reduce still further. Don't think we should include countersteering knowledge in our test though... :-) ",8 "Re: Israeli destruction of mosque(s) in Jerusalem In article eggertj@ll.mit.edu writes: >In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: >> I am not aware of any such incidents. >> I have asked you to document your accusation. >> I repeat my request, nay, demand, that you either substantiate your >> accusation or else desist from spewing more ""Baseless Eggert Blabber"". > >And in article avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes: > >> I've read most of the history books dealing with this period, >> good and bad, and while it is possible that I missed one or two, >> none of those I've read documents any razing of mosques. So I >> think that this remarkable claim requires specific documentation. > >Jake disrespectfully demands, and Adam requires specific documentation >of the razing of mosques in Jerusalem. If either of them had been >reading t.p.m for a while, they would already have seen such >documentation. For the forgetful or newcomers, however, here are the >references. Well, -I've- been reading t.p.m. for a while and here is what I saw YOU write: In article you wrote: >For balance, perhaps you should mention the mosques in Jerusalem that >were razed after the Israeli victory in 1967. An eye for an eye, I guess. Your statment clearly tries to ""balance"" Arab atrocities by noting a single incident by the Israelis in war-time at their most holy site. You even characterize it as ""an eye for an eye"". You also wrote: >That would be false. If you read your history, you will learn that >right after the 1967 war, the victorious Israelis decided to raze a >section of the newly captured East Jerusalem, near the Wailing Wall. >It is in this section that mosques were razed. so now you have to find some source that notes that more than 1 mosque was razed. You then followed it with: >This episode is an example of a good government running amok with >newly acquired power. Really? Do you still feel that Israelis are comparable in the running amok with power with, say, the Iraqis? Your ""eye for an eye"" comparisons don't match the realities that most of us are familiar with. >Quoting from The West Bank Story, pages 35-36: >""On the night of June 10, an Israeli officer marched from door to door This happened to be during a war! And a fierce and mighty war it was, too. Would you say that the Jordanians ""indiscriminately shot up ancient structures as is their custom"" in describing bullet holes in the walls of the city? This was war! It was certainly not any ""eye for an eye"" characterstic. Israelis do not harbor the same feelings of revenge as the Arabs generally do. This is one of the reasons that the Peace Now movement exists in Israel and nowhere else in the M.E. -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "Re: Mormon beliefs about bastards In article erh0362@tesla.njit.edu writes: > > Could anyone enlighten me on how the Mormon church views > children born out of wedlock? In particular I'm interested to know if any > stigma is attached to the children as opposed to the parents. I'm especially > keen to learn if there is or is not any prohibition in the Mormon faith on > bastards entering heaven or having their names entered in the big genealogical > book the Mormons keep in Salt Lake City. If this is an issue on which the > ""official"" position has changed over time, I'm interested in learning both old > and new beliefs. E-mail or posting is fine. All information or pointers are > appreciated. > Well, since my wife is (in your gentle term) a ""bastard"", I can probably speak with a bit of authority on this. Any ""stigma"" associated with children conceived and/or born out of wedlock rests solely upon the parents--they've committed a sexual transgression for which they should repent. The child itself has no a priori limitations on him or her; indeed, the concept of blaming the child for the parents' sins is one most Mormons would find appalling; note that LDS theology rejects original sin, as the term is usually defined, and the subsequent need for infant baptism (cf. Moroni 8 in the Book of Mormon). Indeed, LDS doctrine goes one step further and in some cases holds parents responsible for their children's sins if they have failed to bring them up properly (cf. D&C 68:25-28; note that this passage applies it only to members of the LDS Church). Also note that there is no ""big genealogical book in Salt Lake City"". The LDS Church has a massive storage facility in the nearby mountains containing (on microfilm) vital statistic records (birth, christening, baptism, marriage, death) gathered from all over the entire world. I may be misremembering, but I believe they have records for some 2 billion people in that vault. At the same time, the LDS Church is building up an on-line genealogical database. In neither case is there some kind of ""worthiness screening"" as to whether someone can be entered in. The only potential issue is that of establishing who the parents were, and that would apply only in the case of the database. ..bruce.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce F. Webster | I love the Constitution of this land, CTO, Pages Software Inc | but I hate the damned rascals that bwebster@pages.com | administer it. #import | -- attributed to Brigham Young ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [The following arrived as a separate posting --clh] A follow-up to my own follow-up--lest anyone misunderstand, the term ""bastard"" is one which I have never in 25 years of LDS Church membership heard applied, formally or informally, to a child born out of wedlock, and indeed would (rightly) be considered a vulgar, offensive term. I would not have echoed the expression in my reply, except in hopes that the poster would recognize the offensive nature of the word in the given context. Unfortunately, after posting my reply, I remembered that subtle points are often lost on the 'net, and figured I'd better spell it out. ..bruce.. Bruce F. Webster bwebster@pages.com ",15 "Ticket: San Francisco => Philadelphia One way ticket (return leg of roundtrip ticket) for female traveler San Francisco ==> St. Louis ==> Philadelphia May 21, 1993 (Friday) leaves SFO 10:25 am arrives Phila. 8:43 pm .............$150 or best offer return E-mail or call 215/387-0203 (home) 215/898-8099 (office) ",6 "ABC coverage I loved the ABC coverage. The production was excellent. The appearance was excellent. It had a sleek modern look. This was the first time I heard Thorne & Clement & I thought they were great. My only request is to leave Al Micheals out of this. He annoys me. I'm hoping this leads to a regular-season contract. My guess would be is that it will be roughly a weekly game from Feb.-April and then the playoffs. I envy you Canadians with your TSN & CBC. Maybe I'll get a dish to pick up Canadian TV. How much are those things, BTW? ",10 "850 MB SCSI -- $800 A friend of mine would like to sell his 850 MB SCSI drive for $800 + S/H. It is a full-height drive, and has been used for about one and a half years. If anyone is interested, please e-mail me. Thank you. Jeffrey Berthiaume s238@cs.utexas.edu ",6 "Re: Laplink serial & parallel cables Serial cables: There are only three output signals: TD, DTR, and RTS. There are five inputs signals: RD, DSR, DCD, CTS, and RI. There are many differnt null modem requiremts as dictated by the software. The IBM BIOS requires asserts DTR and RTS and then waits for both DSR and CTS before sending. When a BIOS recieve call is made, it asserts DTR and waits for DSR to become true (times out after a while and returns with an error if DSR never becomes true). It requires CTS to be true for sending AND recieving. Most communications packages bypass this and replace it with their own protocol. The key is that each comm. package could very well have different requirements. My favorite cable works in many cases: short RTS to CTS at each end, but also run RTS through to DCD at the opposite end. TD runs through to RD and DTR runs through to DSR from both DTE's and of course SG goes through to SG. I have never had trouble with this null modem even though I have used it with a comm. package that was expecting RTS to go to CTS instead of DCD. The advantage of this cable is that it also works with the IBM BIOS. Gordon Lang ",3 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism In article <1993Apr20.160519@IASTATE.EDU> kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) writes: >In article <1r15rvINNh8p@ctron-news.ctron.com>, king@ctron.com (John E. King) >writes: >>""The modern theory of evolution is so inadequate that it deserves to be >>treated as a matter of faith."" -- Francis Hitching > > Neither I, nor Webster's has ever heard of Francis Hitchings. Who is he? >Please do not answer with ""A well known evolutionist"" or some other such >informationless phrase. Francis Hitching is the author of, among other books, _The Neck of the Giraffe_."" He believes evolution is directed by some sort of cosmic force, but does not like Darwinism. He wrote in this book [ _The Neck of the Giraffe_, Ticknor & Fields, New Haven, Connecticut, 1982, p. 12 (p. 4, paperback)] that: For all its acceptance in the scientific world as the great unifying principle of biology, Darwinism, after a century and a quarter, is in a surprising amount of trouble. Evolution and Darwinism are often taken to mean the same thing. But they don't. Evolution of life over a very long period of time is a fact, if we are to believe evidence gathered during the last two centuries from geology, paleontology, molecular biol- ogy and many other scientific disciplines. Despite the many believers in Divine creation who dispute this ..., the probability that evolution has occurred approaches certainty in scientific terms.... On the other hand Darwinism (or neo-Darwinism, its modern version) is a theory that seeks to explain evolution. It has not, contrary to general belief, and despite very great efforts, been proved. Research on Hitching turned up the following: Hitching is basically a sensational TV script writer and has no scien- tific credentials. In _The Neck of the Giraffe_ he claimed to be a member of the Royal Archaeological Institute, but an inquiry to that institute said he was not. He implied in the ""Acknowledgements"" of _The Neck of the Giraffe_ that paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould had helped in the writing of the book, but upon inquiry Gould said he did not know him and had no information about him. Hitching also implied that his book had been endorsed by Richard Dawkins, but upon inquiry Dawkins stated: ""I know nothing at all about Francis Hitching. If you are uncovering the fact that he is a char- latan, good for you. His book, _The Neck of the Giraffe,_ is one of the silliest and most ignorant I have read for years."" Hitching believes in the paranormal and has written on Mayan pyramid energy and for some ""In Search Of..."" episodes on BBC television. The reference work _Contemporary Authors,_ Vol. 103, page 208, lists him as a member of the Society for Psychical Research, the British Society of Dowsers and of the American Society of Dowsers. His writ- ings include: _Earth Magic,_ _Dowsing: The Psi Connection,_ _Mysterious World: An Atlas of the Unexplained,_ _Fraud, Mischief, and the Supernatural_ and _Instead of Darwin_. Hitching's book spends much of its time attacking Dar- winian evolution, borrowing heavily and uncritically from young-earth creationist arguments. Many of Hitching's ""ref- erences"" are lifted from young-earth creationist literature rather than being quoted directly from their original sources. One magazine had this to say [_Creation/Evolution Newsletter_, 7, No. 5, pp. 15-16, September/October 1987]: Speaking of the Biblical Creation Society, there was an interesting letter in the January 1983 issue of their journal Biblical Creation (p. 74) concerning a review of Francis Hitching's 1982 book _The Neck of the Giraffe_. Hitching's book is strongly anti- Darwinist, and is enthusiastically hailed by most cre- ationists (though he also pokes fun at fundamentalist creationists). The letter, by creationist Malcolm Bowden (author of _The Rise of the Evolution Fraud_), points out that Hitching simply ""culled his informa- tion from the creationist literature."" This is indeed the case: many creationist works are cited favorably (Anderson, Coffin, Clark, Daly, Davidheiser, Dewar, Gish, Morris, Segraves, Whitcomb, and Wysong, plus various anti-Darwinists). Hitching does cite Bowden's earlier book _Ape-Men -- Fact or Fallacy?_, but Bowden accuses Hitching of ""lifting"" several passages and illustrations from his book without acknowledgment: in other words, plagiarism. ""Hitchin's [sic] book is largely an exposition of the creationists [sic] view- point from the beginning to almost the end,"" Bowden points out.... Hitching is also a paranormalist, an advocate of psychic evolution.... [Hitching's book] _Earth Magic_ is a wild, extremely entertaining and thoroughly psychic interpretation of megalithic struc- tures.... Hitching also includes in his scheme cosmic cataclysms, Atlantis, pyramidology, dowsing, ESP, miraculous healing, and astrology. ------------------------------------------------------- Alan Feuerbacher alanf@atlas.pen.tek.com ",0 "Re: Cable TVI interference In article <1qevrf$4t@hpscit.sc.hp.com> writes: > > As is typical nowadaze, you will probably have to do somebody else's job > for them. Although this shouldn't be needed, you might take a few minutes > to wander around the neighborhood with an HT sniffing for cable leakage > on your freq. after shutting down your system for a while. > > If you are fortunate enough to the find the hole, call the cable company and > get the highest link in the chain of command you can. Explain the problem, > whose job it really is to maintain THEIR equipment, and how much of a nice > guy you are to have tracked down THEIR problem for them. > > You may have been lucky and made a new contact that could be helpful in the > future. > > You should always try the 'honey' approach before bringing out the > Jack Nicholson impressions..... >:-) > > This has worked for me in the past with the power company when tring to > find loose/noisy high voltage lines/hardware. Only once did I have to > tell them I was narrowing the problem down to a specific pole by bumping > a whole line of poles with my car. Got 'em out there THAT NIGHT. And, they > didn't have to meet Jack! > > As a disclaimer, THEIR method for finding loose hardware was usually > whacking the poles with a huge sledgehammer after their high tech arc- > finding 'scope couldn't find the problem. > > > > Bill > wb6 rotten zucchini garden Here in switzerland, the situation is exactly the same. The cable tv companies even tried to stop amateur radio in switzerland in the beginning of cable tv(they seem to be too stupid to know anything about international frequency conferences or so). Even today, they use the cheapest possible coax running into problems they can't solve anymore. As Bill noted, the only way is to look for a solution with the neighbours *BEFORE* calling for the cable tv guys or the fcc. The chance to find neighbours with some sense for reason is by far bigger than with these people (especially the first ones). As anywhere in an administration people don't like, if You tell them to work for the money they get... The problem is, that radio amateurs don't have the power to put trough their rights in all cases. So let's hope they start soon with optical fibers and get out of our freqencies. Cheers Robert (HB9NBY) -- Robert Ganter /------------\ Universitaet Basel | I am a fan | Institut fuer Informatik | of my plan | Basel/Switzerland \------------/ ganter@ifi.unibas.ch amateurradio: HB9NBY packet: HB9NBY@HB9EAS.CHE.EU ",12 "Recommend me a PS printer I'm in the market for a laser printer. Used printers are fine, non-apple printers are fine, but whatever printer I get must fit the following: Required features: - PostScript - 300 dpi - emough memory to download fonts - The cheaper, the better. I'd prefer under $1000. Nice things: - anything over 4 pages per minute - scsi output for a font disk - smallish footprint Don't Care About: - PostScript Level II - networking (its just for me, and always will be) - color I know about Freedom of Press, but I've also heard that its painfully slow. I can tolerate about 4 ppm, but anything slower than that and I'm not going to consider the price savings worth it. I'd be curious to hear people's experience with it, tho. I also infinitely prefer laser over ink; I used to use HP deskjets in my last job and wasn't impressed with the quality. I'm a laser bigot and the first to admit it. :) I'll be using the printer to layout pages of a book I'm writing. The page will include multiple fonts, PS graphics, scanned line art and maybe greyscale pictures (not sure yet). The quality doesn't need to be spectacular, but it needs to be clear and readable. Printers I've been looking at: - used LaserWriters: The plus, the NT, the NTR. Its my understanding that only the NTR has a SCSI out for a disk. True? - Personal LaserWriter (LS and NTR). I have access to the Apple Employee discount (I work for one of Apple's spinoffs), so I can get these reasonably cheaply. I've heard bad things about the LS; comments? I'm leaning towards the Personal NTR, cause it has a nice small footprint. - LaserWriter Select 300. I hear it doesn't have PostScript, but I haven't seen anything for sure. I heard mumbles once about a ""postscript upgrade."" ?? - Used HP LaserJets. I've worked with the II and IIP on another platform, and they were *painfully* slow. Are they that bad on the mac? - I've seen ads for an Epson PS laserprinter that is running quite cheap. Any comments on this printer? I hate the styling (too many ouput trays), but if its a decent printer I'll consider it. Thanks for any comments... -- ********************************************************* Laura Lemay lemay@netcom.com writer of trifles in shadows and blood ********************************************************* ",4 "While Armenians destroyed all the villages from Trabzon to Erzurum... In article <1993Apr4.231353.34562@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes: >this posting as a serious and meaningful one, I want to assure this >entity that it was but a joke> Still yelling at the telephone and the lawn mower? People will think you're just some looney howling in the wires. Now any comment? Source: Documents: Volume I (1919). ""Document No: 76,"" Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 109, Drawer No: 3, File No: 346, Section No: 427(1385), Contents No: 3, 52-53. (To Lt. Colonel Seyfi, General Headquarters, Second Section, Istanbul - Dr. Stephan Eshnanie) 'Neues Wiener Tagblatt' - Vienna, 'Pester Lloyd' 'Local Anzliger' - Berlin, 'Algemeen Handelsblat' - Amsterdam, 'Vakit' - Istanbul. ""I have been closely following for two weeks the withdrawal of Russians and Armenians from Turkish territories through Armenia. Although two months have elapsed since the clearing of the territories of Armenian gangs, I have been observing the evidence of the cruelties of the Armenians at almost every step. All the villages from Trabzon to Erzincan and from Erzincan to Erzurum are destroyed. Corpses of Turks brutally and cruelly slain are everywhere. According to accounts by those who were able to save their lives by escaping to mountains, the first horrible and fearful events begun when the Russian forces evacuated the places which were then taken over by Armenian gangs. The Russians usually treated the people well, but the people feared the intervention of the Armenians. Once these places had been taken over by the Armenians, however, the massacres begun. They clearly announced their intention of clearing what they called the Armenian and Kurdish land from the Turks and thus, solve the nationality problem. Today I had the opportunity to meet Austrian and German soldiers who had escaped from Russian prison camps and come from Kars and Alexander Paul (Gumru-Leninakan)...Russian officers tried to save the Turks and there were clashes between Russian officers and Armenian gangs. I am now in Erzurum, and what I see is terrible. Almost the whole city is destroyed. The smell of the corpses still fills the air. Although there are speculations that Armenian gangs murdered Austrian and German prisoners as well, I could not get the supporting evidence in this regard, but there is proof of murdering of Turkish prisoners of war."" Dr. Stephan Eshnanie Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Barbecued foods and health risk In article <1993Apr18.175802.28548@clpd.kodak.com> Rich Young, young@serum.kodak.com writes: Stuff deleted > ... have to > consume unrealistically large quantities of barbecued meat at a > time."" I have to confess that this is one of my few unfulfilled ambitions. No matter how much I eat, it still seems realistic. Don Mackie - his opinion ",13 "Re: Ford and the automobile : Ford and his automobile. I need information on whether Ford is : partially responsible for all of the car accidents and the depletion of : the ozone layer. Also, any other additional information will be greatly : appreciated. Thanks. : SSSSSoooooooooooo!!!!! Its all HIS fault!! Thank God Louis Chevrolet is innocent! and that guy Diesel, HE otto feel guilty! -- Stephen Phillips Atlanta Response Center Atlanta, Ga. Home of the Braves! ",7 "Re: Rumors In article <1993Apr2.174851.22659@cs.unca.edu>, kepley@photon.phys.unca.edu (Brad Kepley) writes: |> I just heard an unbelievable rumor that Motorola has decided to drop their |> integrated circuit manufacture business. Apparently a Digikey rep called |> one of our production coordinators, for out information so that we could |> make plans to deal with this, that Moto was getting out. Anybody else |> get a call about this? |> |> Too much for me. It's about like Intel announcing they were getting out |> of the IC business. This rumor didn't happen to appear on April 1st? If this DigiKey rep was serious, I think I will buy my parts elsewhere. If that is the way they do business, you cannot trust them. Mark ",12 "Re: Monthly Question about XCopyArea() and Expose Events |> (2nd posting of the question that just doesn't seem to get answered) |> |> Suppose you have an idle app with a realized and mapped Window that contains |> Xlib graphics. A button widget, when pressed, will cause a new item |> to be drawn in the Window. This action clearly should not call XCopyArea() |> (or equiv) directly; instead, it should register the existence of the new |> item in a memory structure and let the same expose event handler that handles |> ""regular"" expose events (e.g. window manager-driven exposures) take care |> of rendering the new image. Using an expose event handler is a ""proper"" way |> to do this because at the time the handler is called, the Xlib Window is |> guaranteed to be mapped. |> |> The problem, of course, is that no expose event is generated if the window |> is already visible and mapped. What we need to do is somehow ""tickle"" the |> Window so that the expose handler is hit with arguments that will enable |> it to render *just* the part of the window that contains the new item. |> |> What is the best way to tickle a window to produce this behavior? If I understand your problem correctly, you want to have a way to send exposures to your manager widget when your app-specific code draws xlib graphics on the window. It sounds like you might want to send an exposure using XSendEvent and specifying a region. If you know the region you need to send the exposure, generally you have the bounding rectangle of the objects, you can use XCreateRegion to create a region, XUnionRectWithRegion to add the new object polygons to the region, and then either use the region to clip your GC for the redraw or use XRectInRegion to test which of your other objects need to be redrawn. Keeping in mind that the stacking order of overlapping objects affects how they look. Hope it helps -- Brian Dealy |301-572-8267| It not knowing where it's at dealy@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov | | that's important,it's knowing !uunet!dftsrv!kong!dealy | | where it's not at... B.Dylan -- Brian Dealy |301-572-8267| It not knowing where it's at dealy@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov | | that's important,it's knowing !uunet!dftsrv!kong!dealy | | where it's not at... B.Dylan ",5 "Tseng Labs Video Card Problem I have a Tseng labs video card that gives me problems when I do anything in super VGA mode. CHECKIT v3.0 reports a Video Page Frame Address Error at Page Frame #7. What does this mean and how (if I can) could this be fixed? The card Says ET4000Ax on it. Thanks ",3 "Genuine Admission From A Genuine Homosexual I must finally admit the total truth that is central to the core of my being. I am a homosexual. Not just a normal, run-of-the-mill homosexual, but a rabid homosexual Zionist. I hide behind the facade of pro-Israel rhetoric so as to deflect suspicion of my true motive: the exchange of romantic dialogue with Nick Steel, and our frequent fudge-packing adventures, which we have endeavored to maintain at a discreet level. Of course, the need for discretion has been obviated by my own admission here. The truth is that I could no longer hold this saccharine secret any longer. I love you, Nick, and my love for you surpasses that which I hold for Eretz Yisrael, may she stand forever, as our love has, and as your erection insinuating itself into my kosher rectum always will. =Mark= ",17 "ARSENOKOITAI 2 -Bailey/Boswell [continuing with Dr. DeYoung's article-] SURVEY OF NEW INTERPRETATIONS OF ARSENOKOITAI D.S. Bailey D.S. Bailey was perhaps the trailblazer of new assessments of the meaning of arsenokoitai. He takes the term in I Cor 6:9 as denoting males who actively engage in homosexual acts, in contrast to malakoi (""effeminate""), those who engage passively in such acts.*4 However, he insists that Paul knew nothing of ""inversion as an inherited trait, or an inherent condition due to psychological or glandular causes, and consequently regards all homosexual practice as evidence of perversion"" (38). Hence Bailey limits the term's reference in Paul's works to acts alone and laments modern translations of the term as ""homosexuals."" Bailey wants to distinguish between ""the homosexual *condition* (which is morally neutral) and homosexual *practices*"" [italics in source]. Paul is precise in his terminology and Moffatt's translation ""sodomites"" best represents Paul's meaning in Bailey's judgment (39). Bailey clearly denies that the homosexual condition was known by biblical writers. J. Boswell The most influential study of arsenokoitai among contemporary authors is that of John Boswell.*5 Whereas the usual translation*6 of this term gives it either explicitly or implicitly an active sense, Boswell gives it a passive sense. In an extended discussion of the term (341-53), he cites ""linguistic evidence and common sense"" to support his conclusion that the word means ""male sexual agents, i.e. active male prostitutes."" His argument is that the arseno- part of the word is adjectival, not the object of the koitai which refers to base sexual activity. Hence the term, according to Boswell, designates a male sexual person or male prostitute. He acknowledges, however, that most interpret the composite term as active, meaning ""those who sleep with, make their bed with, men."" Boswell bases his interpretation on linguistics and the historical setting. He argues that in some compounds, such as paidomathes (""child learner""), the paido- is the subject of manthano, and in others, such as paidoporos (""through which a child passes""), the paido- is neither subject nor object but simply a modifier without verbal significance. His point is that each compound must be individually analyzed for its meaning. More directly, he maintains that compounds with the Attic form arreno- employ it objectively while those with the Hellenistic arseno- use it as an adjective (343). Yet he admits exceptions to this distinction regarding arreno-. Boswell next appeals to the Latin of the time, namely drauci or exoleti. These were male prostitutes having men or women as their objects. The Greek arsenokoitai is the equivalent of the Latin drauci; the corresponding passive would be parakoitai (""one who lies beside""), Boswell affirms. He claims that arsenokoitai was the ""most explicit word available to Paul for a male prostitute,"" since by Paul's time the Attic words pornos (""fornicator"") and porneuon (""one committing fornication""), found also in the LXX, had been adopted ""to refer to men who resorted to female prostitutes or simply committed fornication.""*7 In the absence of the term from pagan writers such as Herodotus, Plato, Aristotle, and Plutarch, and from the Jewish writers Philo and Josephus, Boswell finds even more convincing evidence for his affirmation that arsenokoitai ""did not connote 'homosexual' or even 'sodomite' in the time of Paul"" (346).*8 He also demonstrates its absence in Pseudo-Lucian, Sextus Empiricus, and Libanius. He subsequently finds it lacking in ""all discussions of homosexual relation"" (346)*9 among Christian sources in Greek, including the Didache, Tatian, Justin Martyr, Eusebius,*10 Clement of Alexandria, Gregory of Nyssa, and John Chrysostom. Chrysostom is singled out for his omission as ""final proof"" that the word could not mean homosexuality.*11 Boswell next appeals to the omission of the texts of I Cor and I Tim from discussions of homosexuality among Latin church fathers (348).*12 Cited are Tertullian, Arnobius, Lactantius, and Augustine. The last named uses ""circumlocutions."" Other Latin writers include Ausonius, Cyprian, and Minucius Felix. The term is also lacking in state and in church legislation. By the sixth century the term became confused and was applied to a variety of sexual activities from child molesting to anal intercourse between a husband and wife (353). Having surveyed the sources, Boswell concludes, There is no reason to believe that either arsenokoitai or malakoi connoted homosexuality in the time of Paul or for centuries thereafter, and every reason to suppose that, whatever they came to mean, they were not determinative of Christian opinion on the morality of homosexual acts (353). It is clear throughout that Boswell defines arsenokoitai to refer to male prostitutes. He even goes so far as to conclude that Paul would probably not disapprove of ""gay inclination,"" ""gay relationships,"" ""enduring love between persons of the same gender,"" or ""same-sex eroticism"" (112, 166-17). ________________________________________________________ 4. D.S. Bailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition. (London: 1975) 38. 5. J. Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (Chicago: 1980). 6. Several tranlation of I Tim 1:10 are: KJV, ""them that defile themselves with mankind""; ASV, ""Abusers of themselves with men""; NASB, ""homosexuals""; RSV, NKJV, NRSV, ""sodomites""; NEB, NIV, ""perverts""; GNB, ""sexual perverts""; In I COr 6:9 these occur: KJV, ""abusers of themselves with mankind""; ASV, ""Abusers of themselves with men""; NASB, RSV, ""homosexuals""; NKJV, ""sodomites""; NEB, ""homosexual persversion."" The RSV and NEB derive their translation from two Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai which GBN has as ""homosexual perverts."" NRSV has the two words as ""male prostitutes"" in the text, and ""sodomites"" in the footnote. The active idea predominates among the commentators as well; it is the primary assumption. 7. Boswell, Christianity 344. Yet this was no a word ""available to Paul for a male prostitute,"" for it does not occur at all in any literature prior to Paul (as a serach in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae using IBYCUC confirms). If Paul coined the term, it would have no prior history, and all such discussion about its lack of usage in contemporary non-Christian and Christian literature is meaningless. 8. Again this would be expected if Paul coined the word. 9. The key phrase here apparently is ""discussoin,"" for Boswell admits later (350 n.42) that it occurs in quotes of Paul but there is no discussion in the context. Hence the implication is that we cannot tell what these writer (Polycarp ""To the Philippian 5:3""; Theophilus ""Ad Autolycum 1.2, 2.14"";Nilus ""Epistularum libri quattuor 2.282""; Cyril of Alexandria ""Homiliae diversae 14""; ""Sybilline Oravle 2.13"") meant. Yet Polycarp, who was a disiple of Hohn the Apostle and died about A.D. 155, argues in the context that young men should be pure. He uses only the three terms pornoi, malakoi, and arsenokoitai from Paul's list. This at least makes Boswell's use of ""all"" subjective. Apparently Clement of Alexandria ""Paedogogus 3.11""; Sromata 3.18""; also belong here. 10.. Yet Eusebius uses it in ""Demonstraionis evangelicae 1."" 11. Either Boswell is misrepresenting the facts about Chrysostom's use of arsenokoitai and its form (about 20) in the vice lists of I Cor 6 or I Tim 1, or he is begging the question by denying that the word can mean homosexual when Chrysostom uses it. Yet the meaning of arsenokoitai is the goal of his and our study, whether in the lists or other discussions. Boswell later admits (351) that Chrysostom uses the almost identicl form arsenokoitos in his commentary on I Cor. Although Boswell suggests that the passage is strange, it may be that Paul is seeking to make a refinement in arsenokoitai. 12. Apparently Jerome is a significant omission here, since he renders arsenokoitai as ""masculorum concubitores,"" corresponding ""almost exactly to the Greek"" (348 n.36). footnotes: _______________________ 5. D.S. Bailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition. (London: 1975) 38. 6. J. Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (Chicago: 1980). Several tranlation of I Tim 1:10 are: KJV, ""them that defile themselves with mankind""; ASV, ""Abusers of themselves with men""; NASB, ""homosexuals""; RSV, NKJV, NRSV, ""sodomites""; NEB, NIV, ""perverts""; GNB, ""sexual perverts""; In I COr 6:9 these occur: KJV, ""abusers of themselves with mankind""; ASV, ""Abusers of themselves with men""; NASB, RSV, ""homosexuals""; NKJV, ""sodomites""; NEB, ""homosexual persversion."" The RSV and NEB derive their translation from two Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai which GBN has as ""homosexual perverts."" NRSV has the two words as ""male prostitutes"" in the text, and ""sodomites"" in the footnote. The active idea predominates among the commentators as well; it is the primary assumption. 7. Boswell, Christianity 344. Yet this was no a word ""available to Paul for a male prostitute,"" for it does not occur at all in any literature prior to Paul (as a serach in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae using IBYCUC confirms). If Paul coined the term, it would have no prior history, and all such discussion about its lack of usage in contemporary non-Christian and Christian literature is meaningless. 8. Again this would be expected if Paul coined the word. 9. The key phrase here apparently is ""discussoin,"" for Boswell admits later (350 n.42) that it occurs in quotes of Paul but there is no discussion in the context. Hence the implication is that we cannot tell what these writer (Polycarp ""To the Philippian 5:3""; Theophilus ""Ad Autolycum 1.2, 2.14"";Nilus ""Epistularum libri quattuor 2.282""; Cyril of Alexandria ""Homiliae diversae 14""; ""Sybilline Oravle 2.13"") meant. Yet Polycarp, who was a disiple of Hohn the Apostle and died about A.D. 155, argues in the context that young men should be pure. He uses only the three terms pornoi, malakoi, and arsenokoitai from Paul's list. This at least makes Boswell's use of ""all"" subjective. Apparently Clement of Alexandria ""Paedogogus 3.11""; Sromata 3.18""; also belong here. 10. Yet Eusebius uses it in ""Demonstraionis evangelicae 1."" 11. Either Boswell is misrepresenting the facts about Chrysostom's use of arsenokoitai and its form (about 20) in the vice lists of I Cor 6 or I Tim 1, or he is begging the question by denying that the word can mean homosexual when Chrysostom uses it. Yet the meaning of arsenokoitai is the goal of his and our study, whether in the lists or other discussions. Boswell later admits (351) that Chrysostom uses the almost identicl form arsenokoitos in his commentary on I Cor. Although Boswell suggests that the passage is strange, it may be that Paul is seeking to make a refinement in arsenokoitai. 12. Apparently Jerome is a significant omission here, since he renders arsenokoitai as ""masculorum concubitores,"" corresponding ""almost exactly to the Greek"" (348 n.36). Next: R. Scroggs ",15 "Re: $25 network >>The same folks now have out LBL (Little Big Lan) for $75. I think you >>get it for $50 if you already own $25 Network. LBL works with Arcnet, >>parallel ports, and serial ports in any combination for up to 250 or so >>nodes. No flames please, but I picked up this discussion a bit late and I am really curious... What exactly *is* the $25 network? Something to hack together N serial cables? Something with N serial drivers? Thanks, Pat ",12 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr21.045548.17418@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st922957@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes: > >Y'know, when the right to bear arms was ""invented"", all we had to worry >about was the shotgun and pistol. Now, we have to worry about drive-bys >with Uzis sparaying the entire neighborhood with bullets. > >Just because someting was good once, does not mean it will be forever. Y'know, the perp who commits a drive-by near the homes of some of my friends ain't gonna be in any condition to do so again... and most of the places with large numbers of drive-bys are places where guns are strictly controlled, or the residents can't afford them.. Just because you once had freedom of speech, we've decided information is too easy to transmit, so for the public good we will start armed raids on anyone who says something that violates what we believe is proper to say. You attack one Constitutional right as being outdated, and I can probably come up with a like justification to attack the others. Retaining any of your rights requires retaining all of your rights. James -- ******************************************************************************** James S. Cochrane * When in danger, or in doubt, run in * This space gt6511a@prism.gatech.edu * circles, scream and shout. * for rent ******************************************************************************** ",16 "Help! Installing old HD on older Compaq XT We are trying to install a donated hard disk (Miniscribe vintage 1988) on a supercheap ancient Compaq XT for use in education. The only problem is that the supercheap Compaq didn't come with the manual and I haven't been able to figure out how to start the SETUP program. I began using PCs after 286s were invented, so I have a couple of basic questions: 1. Did XT-class computers even *have* SETUP programs? 2. If they did (or, do), how do I access it? If anybody has any good advice on how to proceed or what to do next or what to look out for, please let me know. E-mail is best, but I'll also be watching the newsgroup postings. Thanks in advance, -Robert -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Luke Internet: luke@aero.org The Aerospace Corporation CompuServe: 71155,3011 ""Danger, Will Robinson!"" ",3 "Re: freely distributable public key cryptography c++ code: where? ""Numerical Recipes in C""..Fortran..Pascal has a nice section on encryption and decryption based on the DES algorithm. There is also source code provided (I think some versions of this book are distributed with the source code on disk; the source code can also be ordered from the publisher). --Victor Iseli victori@xetron.com ",11 "Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL In article rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes: > > > Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter >of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on >NHL teams have escalated to the following stats: > >Canadians: 400 >Americans: 100 >Europeans: 100 > > > Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick You know, you're absolutely right. I think we should round up all those players of European descent and ship 'em back to where they came from. Let's see, with whom should we start? I dunno, Lemieux? Hmmm...sounds like he has *French* blood in him!!! Hey! France is part of Europe! Send that Euro-blooded boy back!!! Sheesh. > I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures >and Selannes of the world play on their own continent. > > I just don't want them on mine. I don't think it would be hard to find some Native Americans (or Native Canadians, for that matter) who would dispute your claim to this great continent of *ours.* Ya see, if you believe the anthropologists, we're *all* immigrants of some sort. If you really don't think that Mogilny, Bure, Selanne, et al have improved the NHL, then I'm not sure you understand the game. -- ****************************************************************************** Dan Lyddy daniell@cory.berkeley.edu University of California at Berkeley ""No, I don't play hockey. Not too many brothers do."" -- Deion Sanders ",10 "Re: Flaming Nazis The trouble with trying to find out the truth is that Roehm and his buddies were ACCUSED OF being flaming faggots, one of the pretexts for the Night of Long Knives in which Roehm and most of the SA wing of the NSDAP were purged. Since the accusers thereafter controlled the records, anything bearing on the subject -- true or not -- has to be considered tainted evidence. The available data suggest that Roehm and his crowd, the SA -- Sturmabteilung, ""Storm Troopers"" -- left the world a better place when they departed, but concrete particulars are still no more than more or less shrewd guesses. -- Diccon Frankborn ",19 "Re: ""High Power"" Assault guns High power assault gun? Why, you must be talking about the 155mm Howitzer. Or did you want to try a 16 incher? Or one of the German railway guns? -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |Texans: Vote NO on Robin Hood. We need pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com |solutions, not gestures. PADI DM-54909 | ",16 "Re: New Encryption Algorithm In article <41@shockwave.win.net>, jhupp@shockwave.win.net (Jeff Hupp) writes: > The NSA's charter forbids them from doing any purely domestic > intelligence work, I would think that even providing assistance in > development of the Skipjack algorithom is a violation of that charter. > But as with any intrenched government agency, they will do what they > think is expedent. There are other laws and directives which bear upon the subject. For example, the National Computer Security Act of 1987 specifically directs NBS [sic] to work with NSA on developing security standards for civilian Federal computers. (Pick up the bill from cpsr.org; it also includes a report describing it, and some of the legislative history, including concerns about NSA's involvement.) Note also that NSA is specifically charged with running the National Computer Security Center, -- to quote the aforementioned report -- ``NSA also will work with industries at the DOD Computer Security Center to develop security standards for private sector use.'' It may or may not be a good idea to have NSA tinkering with this, but I'm pretty sure it's legal. (Btw -- when it comes to development of cryptosystems, there may be two choices. Either NSA helped develop it, in which case maybe they can crack it, maybe not, but probably, no one else can; or NSA didn't help, in which case they probably can crack it, and maybe others as well...) ",11 "Pseudo-Random Character Generators (large state) Here are four pseudo-random character generators, based on irreducible trinomials. Each contains 16 separate trinomials, one of which is selected on initialization (there are 64 distinct trinomials between the 4 PRCGs). The PRCGs are initialized with a 32-bit seed, and a 4-bit trinomial- selector. I would like to get comments on these by anyone who is interested enough to look them over. Please email, because our news is on the fritz (Note that this was posted via email). Peter K. Boucher ================ CLIP CLIP ================================= begin 660 rnd.tar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Does anyone >know what he was referring to? I don't want to get into a semantic argument, but contrary to some other postings ""near UV light"" /is/ ""actual UV light."" The ""near"" means that it is close to the visible spectrum (i.e. of relatively long wavelength), not that it is ""nearly UV."" (I'm sure you can figure out now just what ""far UV"" is.) Regular incandenscent flashlight bulbs emit tiny amounts of UV in the near end of the spectrum, such that a filter can be used to remove the visible light and thus create a weak UV source. Stronger sources are going to require gas (probably mercury vapor) discharge tubes (such as fluorescent tubes with UV phosphor). Be careful, though; strong UV sources can cause physiological damage, especially to the eyes. The shorter wavelengths are the most dangerous. It wouldn't project a beam like a flashlight, but replacing the tubes in a portable fluorescent lantern with UV tubes would be a relatively cheap way to create a portable source. It would be bright enough to be useful, but not dangerously so. -Ed Hall edhall@rand.org ",12 "Re: pushing the envelope > In <1993Apr3.233154.7045@Princeton.EDU> lije@cognito.Princeton.EDU (Elijah Millgram) writes: > > > A friend of mine and I were wondering where the expression ""pushing > the envelope"" comes from. Anyone out there know? > Everbody has been defining envelope. Why was the world ""envelope"" chosen, rather than say ""shell"", or ""boundary"". In analogy with the envelopes of airships perhaps? Actually, ""shell"" might be good. Push the shell too hard and it (the aircraft?) breaks. -- Thomas Clarke Institute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL 12424 Research Parkway, Suite 300, Orlando, FL 32826 (407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ucf.edu ",14 "conner 120mb problem HI, Recently, when I run the Norton Disk surface test, I realize a slow down in harddisk accessing. At begining of the test, the harddisk will be checked at the speed that usually is. As the surface test scaned half way through my harddisk, a tremendous slow down occured. The expected time for operation will jump from 3 to 6 minutes. I try to use some of the harddisk tools to check if there is any physical damage to my harddisk and report always turn out to be none. The surface test only slow down for a certain section of the disk and turn back to the original speed after it gets over the section. I am wondering whether it is a harddisk problem or some other problems. Anyway help or comment will be appriciate.... Shane Cheney Wang ",3 "Re: '61 Orioles Trivia Bunker & McNally were later. Pappas, Estrada, Steve Barber, and . . . ? Jay ",9 "Items For Sale ITEMS FOR SALE - PRICE LISTED OR BEST OFFER!!!!!!! KFC SVGA Monitor 1024X768 .28DP Non-interlaced 14"" Screen, still under warranty! (Brand New) $ 290.00 1200 Baud Compuadd Modem Box/docs/software $ 20.00 CGA Monitor with Cga/Parallel Card $ 30.00 SCO UNIX V3.2.2 Unlimited User OS, has the base and extended Utilities, and UUCP $ 150.00 Turbo C/Turbo C++ The complete reference book. $ 15.00 Serial I/O Card 1 serial Port $ 10.00 Joystick, three button $ 10.00 IDE Controller with 2 Serial, 1 parallel and one Game port 2 available. $ 10.00Each (210)545-4741, ask for Ralf ",6 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes: >""The modern theory of evolution is so inadequate that it deserves to be >treated as a matter of faith."" -- Francis Hitching Wee. It's the old creationist argumentum ad quotation. Pitiful, dishonest, creationist saps like yourself seem only to know how to takes quotes out of context. Here's another quote from the same source as your quote above: ""Evolution and Darwinism are often taken to mean the same thing. But they don't. Evolution of life over a very long period of time is a fact, if we are to believe evidence gathered during the last two centuries from geology, paleontology, molecular biology and many other scientific disciplines. Despite the many believers in Divine creation who dispute this ..., the probability that evolution has occurred approaches certainty in scientific terms."" (Hitching, _The Neck of the Giraffe_). Mr. King, next time you quote someone, at least read the rest of what the person has to say before you make a fool of yourself in front of everyone. (Of course, we all know you have probably never even looked at the book; you most likely copied that quote off some list your pastor gave you.) Another creationist builds the case against creationism. Thanks, John! -- Brett J. Vickers ""Don't go around saying the world owes you bvickers@ics.uci.edu a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."" - Mark Twain ",0 "Re: WinFax files in ASCII format? WinFax Pro provides you with OCR. It is the OCR from OmniPage. Although it is not as customizable it does the job and is auto matic (if you want) and much cheaper than the same package (Omni Page Professional = $700) sold separatly. Last time I check WinFax Pro was only $100 ?? ",2 "Great Canadian Scientists About two years ago I posted the following: I am planning to write a new book called ""Great Canadian Scientists."" Please forward your nominations to me: shell@cs.sfu.ca The rules are that the person must be a Canadian citizen. They don't have to be born in Canada or even live in Canada, but they must have (or have had, if they are dead) Canadian citizenship while they are/were great Canadian scientists. About 70 people have been nominated already and they are listed at the end of this posting. I'm not quite sure what should constitute greatness, and there may be a gray area here. If you have any ideas on criteria for greatness, I would be pleased to hear them. In any event, please nominate people even if you are not sure they are great. I would like as big a list as possible. Please give me a name and email address, phone number or mail address, so that I can contact the person. If you don't know any of the above, then give me their last known whereabouts. Also please give your reason for why you think the person should be considered a great Canadian scientist. After I have the list, I will choose about six of the most interesting ones and do in-depth biographies of those individuals in the style of Tracy Kidder's ""Soul of a New Machine"" or some other dramatic technique. The rest of the great Canadian scientists will appear in an appedix with one paragraph biographies. If you have any other ideas about this project, I am interested to hear them. So far, I have received 68 nominations as follows: First Name Last Name Nominator Famous For ---------- --------- --------- ---------- Sid Altman Kuszewski, John Catalytic RNA(Nobel Chem 89) Frederick Banting me Insulin (Nobel U23 medicine) Davidson Black Stanley, Robert Discovered Peking Man James R. Bolton Warden, Joseph chemistry? Raoul Bott Smith, Steven Math: algebraic topology. Willard Boyle Chamm, Craig Co inventor of CCD Gerard Bull Stanley, Robert Ballistics and gunnery Dennis Chitty Galindo-Leal, Carlos First animal ecologist Brian C. Conway Tellefsen, Karen Electrochemistry Stephen Cook Mendelzon, Alberto NP-completeness, complexity ? Copp Kuch, Gerald biochem aspects of physiol H.S.M. Coxeter Calkin, Neil J. Regular polytopes (math) P. N. Daykin Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant H. E. Duckworth anonymous Mass Spectroscopy, admin Jack Edmonds Snoeyink, Jack Math, Operations research Reginald Fessenden Johnsen, Hans Wire insulation, light bulb Ursula Franklin McKellin, William Physics archeol. materials J. A. Gray Gray, Tom Nuclear physics, The Gray E. W. Guptill Chamm, Craig Slotted array radar Donald Hebb Lyons, Michael Learning (Hebbian synapses) Gerhard Herzberg me Optical spectr Nobel 71 James Hillier me Electron Microscope (Can/Am) Crawford S. Holling Galindo-Leal, Carlos Ecology, predators and prey David Hubel Lyons, Michael Visual cortex (Nobel med ?) Kenneth Iverson Dare, Gary Invented APL J. D. Jackson Austern, Matt Elementary Particle Theory Andre Joyal Pananagden, Prakash Category theory, categ Logic Martin Kamen me Carbon-14 (Canadian/Amer.) Irving Kaplansky Knighten, Bob Algebra, functional analysis George S. Kell Kell, Dave Hot water freezing T. E. Kellogg Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant Geraldine Kenney-Wallace Siegman, Anthony Chemistry ? Administration Brian Kernaghan Brader, Mark C programming language Michael L. Klein Marchi, Massimo Theoretical Chemistry Charles J. Krebs Galindo-Leal, Carlos Ecology, Krebs effect K. J. Laidler Tellefsen, Karen Chemical Kinetics G. C. Laurence Palmer, Bill Physics ???? Raymond Lemieux Smith, Earl First synthesized glucose Martin Levine Meunier, Robert Computer vision Edward S. Lowry himself Computer programming Pere Marie-Victorin Meunier, Robert Jardin Botanique de Montreal Colin MacLeod Turner, Steven Nobel (?) DNA discovery? Marshall McLuhan Clamen, Stewart Social sci, communications Ben Morrison Willson, David Aurora Borealis Lawrence Morley Strome, Murray Plate Tektonics/Remote sense Farley Mowat Abbott, John Northern Animal rights? Kevin Ogilvie Kendrick, Kelly Genetics, cure for herpes? Sir William Osler Lyons, Michael Medicine P.J.E. Peebles Vishniac, Ethan Most important cosmologist Wilder Penfield Perri, Marie Anatomical basis for memory John Polanyi me chemiluminescensce Nobel86 Denis Poussart Meunier, Robert Computer Vision Anatol Rapoport Lloyd-Jones, David conflict theory, game theory Howard Rapson Sutherland, Russell Pulp chemistry Hans Selye Goel, Anil K. Psychology of stress. William Stephenson Wilkins, Darin WW2 Enigma code, Wire photo Boris Stoicheff Siegman, Anthony Raman Spectroscopy David Suzuki Meister, Darren Science communication Henry Taube Parker, Wiley Physical Chemistry Nobel83 Richard Taylor Manuel, John Verified Quark model Nobel90 David Thompson Eisler, Michael Mapped western Canada Endel Tulving Green, Christopher Psychology of memory Bill Tutte Royle, Gordon matroid theory (math) I Uchida Palmer, Bill Down's syndrome J. Tuzo Wilson Collier, John Continental Drift theory R. H. Wright Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant J.L.(Allen) Yen Leone, Pasquale VL baseline interferometry Walter Zinn me Breader Reactor (Can/Amer.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The list is growing nicely. It's amazing to see just how much was discovered by Canadians. Actually there are many more who were born in Canada, but became Americans after graduate school. Please note: a lot of people have nominated Alexander Graham Bell but I feel he was really a Scottish/American with a summer home in Canada. Now I know this is debatable, but please don't nominate him again. If anyone can fill in some of the question marks on the list, please drop me a line. ================================================== That was two years ago. Since then, I have received a grant from Science Culture Canada, a division of Supply and Services Canada to research the book. Since my old posting the book has evolved into an educational book for kids aged 9 - 14 (though this may change again) It will have about 40 two-page spreads with a large graphic in the middle and text/graphic boxes all around on the following subjects: Vital statistics and photo of the scientist, Personal statement from the scientist, Narrative of a few moments in the life of the scientist, ""What I was doing when I was 12"", So you want to be a , Experiment you can do. There will be an appendix with 100 - 200 more scientists with one paragraph biographies who didn't quite make it to the double spreads. The whole thing will then be published on CD-ROM with video and sound clips for added richness. I am looking for a CD-ROM publisher as well. The text part may also be available on the CANARIE electronic highway being developed in Canada as well. I am still looking for a publisher though Penguin Canada came close to being it. Hope to find one soon. I would like to again ask for more nominations, especially in the pure sciences of Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Also criticisms of the list are welcomed. Also women and French-Canadian scientists are needed. I hope this posting will get others to nominate more Great Canadian Scientists, and to discuss what is ""great"" what is ""Canadian"" and what is ""scientist"". Please respond to: shell@sfu.ca or Barry Shell 604-876-5790 4692 Quebec St. Vancouver, B.C. V5V 3M1 Canada Thanks to all who responded already. ",13 "GETTING AIDS FROM ACUPUNCTURE NEEDLES someone wrote in expressing concern about getting AIDS from acupuncture needles..... Unless your friend is sharing fluids with their acupuncturist who themselves has AIDS..it is unlikely (not impossible) they will get AIDS from acupuncture needles. Generally, even if accidently inoculated, the normal immune response should be enough to effectively handle the minimal contaminant involved with acupuncture needle insertion. Most acupuncturists use disposable needles...use once and throw away. They do this because you are not the only one concerned about transmission of diseases via this route...so it's good business to advertise ""disposable needlesused here."" These needles tend to be of a lower quality however, being poorly manufactured and too ""sharp"" in my opinion. They tend to snag bloodvessels on insertion compared to higher quality needles. If I choose to use acupuncture for a given complaint, that patient will get their own set of new needles which are sterilized between treatments. The risk here for hepatitis, HIV, etc. transmission is that I could mistakenly use an infected persons needles accidently on the wrong patient...but clear labelling and paying attention all but eliminates this risk. Better quality needles tend to ""slide"" past vessels and nerves avoiding unpleasant painful snags..and hematomas...so I use them. Acupuncture needles come in many lengths and thicknesses...but they are all solid when compared to their injection-style cousins. In China, herbal solutionsand western pharmaceuticals are occasionally injected into meridian points purported to have TCM physiologic effects and so require the same hollow needles used for injecting fluid medicine. This means...thinkingtiny...that a samll amount of tissue, the diameter of the needle bore, will be injected into the body as it would be in a typical ""shot."" when the skin is puntured. On the other hand when the solid acupuncture needle is inserted, the skin tends to ""squeeze"" the needle from the tip to the level of insertion such that any 'cooties' that haven't been schmeared away with alcohol before insertion, tend to remain on the surface of the skin minimizing invasion from the exterior. Of course in TCM...the body's exterior is protected by the Wei (Protective) Qi..so infection is unlikely....or in other words...there is a normal inflammatory and immune response that accompanies tissue damage incurred at the puncture site. While I'm fairly certain your friend will not have a transferable disease transmitted to them via acupuncture needle insertion, I would like to know for what complaint they have consulted the acupuncturist...not to know if it would be harmful.. but to know if it would be helpful. John Badanes, DC, CA romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu ",13 "Re: Israeli Expansion-lust In article <1993Apr15.090735.17025@news.columbia.edu> ayr1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Amir Y Rosenblatt) writes: >In article <2528@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au> jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes: >>In article <1993Apr13.002118.24102@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes: >>It depends entirely on how you define 'war'. The actual fighting largely >>predates the Arab invasions - after all Deir Yassin happened in midApril >>well before the Arab invasion. >How do you define war? Do seiges and constant attacks on villiages >count as acts of war, or is that only when the Jews do them? I would hope that if you intend to have a reasonable discussion you might wait until I express an opinion before deciding I should be flamed for it. As for 'war' I am not sure how I would define it. If you just look at attacks on villages then there is no way of deciding when it started. Would you count the riots in the 20's and 30's? Violence but not war. I personally think that 'war', as opposed to civil disturbance or whatever, requires organisation, planning and some measure of regualr or semi-regular forces. Perhaps the Arab Liberation Army counts. I could easily be convinced it was so. From what I know they did not have a great deal of planning let alone organisation. The Haganah and Palmach certainly did. That is not a cause for criticism, it merely reflects the great organisation generally in the 'Zionist' camp. >Of course, this isn't war, since it's only the Arabs attacking. Now you are being silly aren't you? In any case the war did NOT start with the invasion of the Arab Armies. You see we both agree on something. And the previous posters were wrong, no? >Just like last week when the Fatah launched Katyusha rockets >against Northern israel. Where does uprising end and war begin? Again I am not sure, I doubt you want my opinion anyway, but I think war requires organisation as I said before. It needs a group to command and plan. If Fatah lauches rockets from Southern Lebanon (and are you sure you have the right group - not the Moslems again?) then that sounds like war to me. Stone throwing does not. Joseph Askew -- Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud In the autumn stillness, see the Pleiades, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu Remote in thorny deserts, fell the grief. Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care North of our tents, the sky must end somwhere, Actually, I rather like Brenda Beyond the pale, the River murmurs on. ",17 "Armenian slaughter of more than 600,000 Kurdish people in 1915. Source: Hassan Arfa, ""The Kurds,"" (London, 1968), pp. 25-26. ""When the Russian armies invaded Turkey after the Sarikamish disaster of 1914, their columns were preceded by battalions of irregular Armenian volunteers, both from the Caucasus and from Turkey. One of these was commanded by a certain Andranik, a blood-thirsty adventurer. These Armenian volunteers committed all kinds of excesses, more than six hundred thousand Kurds being killed between 1915 and 1916 in the eastern vilayets of Turkey."" Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Mail_Order Sales, Billing, Receivables program Surely some one of you is familiar with what a mail-order company goes through. This company has only a few products, but thousands of clients. I need a Sales, Billing, and Receivables program to handle the thing, but I need to be able to customize it myself, own the source, etc. Anyone willing to sell me the basic stuff (in ANY development language) I'll be willing to pay about $1,000 to. It has to be ready now. I need this sort of solution immediately. With more time I'll just develop one myself. If you can have me a prototype in two weeks, you can make some quick cash. ************************************************************************* | Dixon Berry ""I see the light | | cfdeb01@ux1.cts.eiu.edu at the end of the tunnel, now, | | Eastern Illinois University [thanks Bill Clinton] | | Booth Library Someone please tell me | | Computer Resource Center it's not a train | | -- Cracker | ************************************************************************* ",2 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 In article 8HC@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B) writes: >In article <1993Apr10.160929.696@galki.toppoint.de> ulrich@galki.toppoint.de >writes: >> According to the TIFF 5.0 Specification, the TIFF ""version number"" >> (bytes 2-3) 42 has been chosen for its ""deep philosophical >> significance"". >> Last week, I read the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, >> Is this actually how they picked the number 42? > >I'm sure it is, and I am not amused. Every time I read that part of the >TIFF spec, it infuriates me- and I'm none too happy about the >complexity of the spec anyway- because I think their ""arbitrary but >carefully chosen number"" is neither. Additionally, I find their >choice of 4 bytes to begin a file with meaningless of themselves- why >not just use the letters ""TIFF""? > >(And no, I don't think they should have bothered to support both word >orders either- and I've found that many TIFF readers actually >don't.) > >ab Why so up tight? FOr that matter, TIFF6 is out now, so why not gripe about its problems? Also, if its so important to you, volunteer to help define or critique the spec. Finally, a little numerology: 42 is 24 backwards, and TIFF is a 24 bit image format... Chris --- ********************************************************************* Christopher P. Tully cptully@med.unc.edu Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill CB# 7525 (919) 966-2699 Chapel Hill, NC 27599 ********************************************************************* I get paid for my opinions, but that doesn't mean that UNC or anybody else agrees with them. ",1 "9600 v.32 internal modem To: All GVC Technologies v.32 9600bps modem 9600/4800/2400/1200/300 bps operation with Automatic Speed Selection. CCITT v.32/v.22bis/v.22/v.21 full-duplex operation. Asynchronous operation. Auto-answer & auto-dial: automatically switch between data and voice transmission. Supports COM port 1-4, and IRQ 2-5 Analog/digital/remote digital loopback test modes. Communication by Crosstalk software and manual included. Modem manual & warranty registration card included. (Optional CCITT v.42bis/v.42/MNP 2-5 module, providing error correction and data compression to increase throughput up to 38,400 bps, available directly from the manufacturer.) Mint condition. $125. DO NOT REPLY TO: dino.fiabane@pics.com. Your mail will bounce if it is sent to that address. Instead, please reply only via private E-Mail to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com (Since my home BBS can only handle personal messages through E-Mail for the time being, any further replies from me to you will also arrive via E-Mail instead of by way of a regular newsgroup.) Dino Fiabane, 150 Weston Drive, Cherry Hill, NJ 08003-2132 phone (609) 424-3836 * SLMR 2.1a * reply to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com via E-Mail ---- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pics OnLine MultiUser System (609)753-2540 HST 609-753-1549 (V32) | | Massive File Collection - Over 45,000 Files OnLine - 250 Newsgroups | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",6 "Re: Choice of gauges dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes: B B >I can think of a few others, but what are your ideas and why? >-Dave Well, in my BMW I like the little light that turns on when you are running out of gas, it's a big help. If you got a turbo, that gauge is a must. If I could, I'd just like all the gauges possible on my car, but... we can't have everything can we? ",7 "Re: XV 3.00 has escaped! The copyright notices themselves seem to be making conficting restrictions. I do not know how to reconcile: /* Copyright Notice * ================ * Copyright 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 by John Bradley * * Permission to use, copy, and distribute XV in its entirety, for * non-commercial purposes, is hereby granted without fee, provided that * this license information and copyright notice appear in all copies. * ... with: * * XV is shareware for PERSONAL USE only. You may use XV for your own * amusement, and if you find it nifty, useful, generally cool, or of * some value to you, your non-deductable donation would be greatly * appreciated. $25 is the suggested donation, though, of course, * larger donations are quite welcome. Folks who donate $25 or more * can receive a Real Nice bound copy of the XV manual for no extra * charge. * * Commercial, government, and institutional users MUST register their * copies of XV, for the exceedingly REASONABLE price of just $25 per * workstation/X terminal. Site licenses are available for those who * wish to run XV on a large number of machines. Contact the author * for more details. ... It strikes me that the first part gives you the right to use, without fee, the program for noncommercial purposes if the info appears in all copies. This seems to cover educational institutions despite what the rest of the notice says. And the first part doesn't say subject to the conditions outlined below... Chris -- Christopher Robin Thewalt (thewalt@ce.berkeley.edu) Dept. of Civil Engineering These opinions are not necessarily University of California, Berkeley shared by my employer... ",5 "Re: Cannot create 24 plane window (summary) > I got several answers, the most complete was from Errol Crary > (errolc@tv.tv.Tek.com): > >I have just looked at the R4 server listings (.../mit/server/dix/window.c ) > >and there are several ways in which you can get a BadMatch error, even > >though my O'Reilly book only says ""BorderWidth is nonzero for InputOnly"". As of the third edition (June 92) the O'Reilly book (Vol 2) under XCreateWindow says: BadMatch Any invalid setting of a window attribute Attribute besides win_gravity, event_mask, do_not_propogate+mask, override_redirect, or cursor specified for InputOnly window depth non-zero for InputOnly Parent of InputOutput is InputOnly border_width is non-zero for InputOnly depth or visual invalid for screen width or height is 0 Adrian Nye O'Reilly and Associates ",5 "Re: Octopus in Detroit? In article <1993Apr17.062622.25380@news.clarkson.edu> farenebt@logic.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy) writes: >In fact, the tradition has been passed down to their affiliate >in Adirondack. In Gm 6 of last yr's finals, an 8 legged creature was >hurled onto the frozen pond and landed right at the feet of ref >Lance Roberts. It may have been passed to Toronto, but I've even seen an octopus at the Aud -- last year's Bruins-Sabres game. I knew all about the Detroit version, but seeing at the Aud was a bit puzzling. :-) -- Valerie Hammerl Birtday -(n)- An event when friends get hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu together, set your dessert on fire, then acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu laugh and sing while you frantically try v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu to blow it out. ",10 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In <1qlapk$d7v@morrow.stanford.edu> salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) writes: >In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >>Theory of Creationism: MY theistic view of the theory of creationism, (there >>are many others) is stated in Genesis 1. In the beginning God created >>the heavens and the earth. > Wonderful, now try alittle imaginative thinking! Huh? Imaginative thinking? What did that have to do with what I said? Would it have been better if I said the world has existed forever and never was created and has an endless supply of energy and there was spontaneous generation of life from non-life? WOuld that make me all-wise, and knowing, and imaginative? MAC -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",19 "Re: JFFO has gone a bit too far (Bogosity Alert!) In article , mrs@netcom.com (Morgan Schweers) writes: > Look, let's try to beat gun control with reason and sense, not by > trying to appeal to emotions, and threatening conspiracies. Denounce > GCA '68 as wrong because it's WRONG, not because it's based off of a > law from someone else's government. There's something to be said for beating gun control with reason and sense: it's intellectually and morally honest. There's also something to be said for using appeal to emotions -- that's the ONLY way the gun control organizations have managed to make more progress on the issue in the past 30 years than gun rights activists ever have. > WE, THE PEOPLE, must state that we find the law unappealing and > contrary to our freedom. We must use logic, and reason, and compelling > arguments. To use emotion, and appeal to fear is to lower yourselves > to the level of your enemies. Yes, and it's a damned shame. ""Members of advocacy groups on both sides of the great American gun debate share some rhetorical difficulties in common. Each side is committed to overstating the problem it addresses. For the procontrol forces, that problem is the contribution of guns to violence and crime, while for the anticontrol forces, that problem is the procontrol forces... Each set of advocacy group serves as the demon by which the other side can rally the troops, raising morale and money. The public is not enlightened by this war of words because neither set of advocates has any stake in merely presenting the plain, unvarnished truth, even to the extent that flawed and biased human minds can understand it. Quite the contrary -- to tell the truth and nothing but the truth would place one side at a distinct disadvantage if the other side did not also lay down their propaganda weapons."" (Kleck, POINT BLANK: GUNS AND VIOLENCE IN AMERICA.) > A side issue... When talking about the Amendments, it bothers > me to see people acting as if they empower them, but require no > responsibility from them. Free speech also assumes restraint, well > armed militia expects well TRAINED militia.. (It's ""well regulated"" militia, but I'll let that pass...) Constitutionally, it is the responsibility of the STATES to train the militia. Unfortunately, the states relinquished their own, independent militia units to the National Guard -- which can be ""federalized"" into Army service by the President at any time -- in their hunger for federal funds. And it was the STATES -- not the gun owners -- who passed laws against ""private citizens engaging in martial drill."" So, many gun owners train to the remaining lawful limit, which training is almost exclusively administered by the NRA -- not the states, not the feds. So don't lecture us on responsibility. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Re: Once they get your keys.... strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: >The proposal could be modified so that if they get a court order to tap you >and don't charge you with a crime within, say, 90 days, they have to buy you >a new phone. >If they do charge you, and you are found innocent, they have to buy you a >new phone. >:-) Yeah, right, and if the ATF trashes your place on a bad tip they have to pay to repair it, sure. And if your computer equipment is confisticated in a raid they have to charge you with a crime within, say, 90 days. You're stretching the naivete bit on this one. -- Love: two minds without a single thought. -- Philip Barry ",11 "Is TEK quitting Xterm activities ??? I caught up a mailmessage from an NCD guy, who stated that Tek might be quitting it's X terminal activities and would be looking for an interested buyer. Since the source of this message is NCD, THIS MIGHT ONLY BE NASTY GOSSIP !!! Can anyone say more about this?? Dick. -- +==============================Ahold NV===============================+ | Room 146 , Ankersmidplein 2, 1506 CK Zaandam, The Netherlands, EEC | | Dick.Heijne@ccsds.ahold.nl - Tel: +31 75 592151, Fax: +31 75 313030 | +=====================================================================+ ",5 "Re: How do they know what keys to ask for? (Re: Clipper) brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes: [...] >And of course you have to identify yourself to the phone company, and >since the phone company complies with court orders, they will know the >magic number of your chip when they sign out a warrant on you, and >then can present the warrant to the key escrow house. Who makes them forget and destroy all copies of the key once they've decided you're not a criminal today? Just curious. >-- >Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366 ------- Any views expressed are those of myself and not my employer. -------- Steven C. Johnson, WB3IRU / VK2GDS | TRW | johnson@trwacs.fp.trw.com FP1 / 3133 | [129.193.172.90] 1 Federal Systems Park Drive | Phone: +1 (703) 968.1000 Fairfax, Virginia 22033-4412 U.S.A. | Fax: +1 (703) 803.5189 -- ------- Any views expressed are those of myself and not my employer. -------- Steven C. Johnson, WB3IRU / VK2GDS | TRW | johnson@trwacs.fp.trw.com FP1 / 3133 | [129.193.172.90] ",11 "Re: plus minus stat In article <1qmtd1INNr1l@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> gibson@nukta.geop.ubc.ca (Brad Gibson) writes: In article <1993Apr16.160228.24945@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA writes: > >In article 9088@blue.cis.pitt.edu, jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald) writes: > >>Jagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points. And take it from >>an informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than >>Jaromir Jagr. This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a >>decent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some). > >Bowman tended to overplay Francis at times because he is a Bowman-style >player. He plays hard at all times, doesn't disregard his defensive >responsibilities and is a good leader. Bowman rewarded him be increasing his >ice time. > >Jagr can be very arrogant and juvenile and display a ""me first"" attitude. >This rubbed Bowman the wrong way and caused him to lose some ice time. > >Throughout the year, Francis consistently recieved more ice time than >Jagr. Althouhg I have never seen stats on this subject, I am pretty >sure that Jagr had more points per minute played that Francis. When >you add to that Jagr's better +/- rating, I think it becomes evident >that Jagr had a better season- not that Francis had a bad one. > Actually, what I think has become more evident, is that you are determined to flaunt your ignorance at all cost. Jagr did not have a better season than Francis ... to suggest otherwise is an insult to those with a modicum of hockey knowledge. Save your almost maniacal devotion to the almighty plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available. Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice time per game and some measure of its ""quality"" (i.e., is the player put out in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications. Thank you for posting this. As the person who first brought up the fact that Jagr has a much higher +/- than Francis, I can assure you that I brought it up as an example of the absurdity of +/- comparisons, even on the same team. I never, ever thought that anyone would argue that Jagr's higher +/- actually reflected better two-way play. In my opinion, Francis's low +/- is purely a result of him being asked to play against opponents top scorers at all times; the fact that he can chip in 100 points while neutralizing the other team's top center is a testament to how valuable he is, even if his +/- suffers. On the other hand, Jagr, for how big, fast and skilled he is, can't even get 90 points, no matter how inflated his +/- is. (By the way, don't get me wrong -- I like Jagr. He may be a lazy floater, but he turns it on at exactly the right times -- like overtime of playoff games). -- Roland Dreier dreier@math.berkeley.edu ",10 "Re: The state of justice In article <1qn73aINNmq9@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr) writes: > I recommend the book ""Adams _v_ Texas"", the story of a man (Adams) who > was sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit. Most of the book > is the story of the long appeals process, and the problems and delays > caused by not being able to introduce new evidence in certain courts. And I recommend the movie _The Thin Blue Line_, which is about the same case. Not as much legal detail, but still an excellent film. It shows how very easy it is to come up with seemingly conclusive evidence against someone whom you think is guilty. -- Matthew Austern Maybe we can eventually make language a matt@physics.berkeley.edu complete impediment to understanding. ",18 "SWII on SE: System 6.0.8 or 7.1? I'm planning on getting a StyleWriter II for my Mac SE (2.5 MB ram, HD, two 800k floppy drives). Do any of you out there have any recommendations as to whether running System 6.0.8 is better or worse than switching to 7.1. I don't do much real work on this machine any more, but would like to keep it for word processing (Using Word 4 and don't see much advantage to going to Word 5, since it is slower). Any help or comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Martin Lin triumvir@cco.caltech.edu ",4 "Single chip receiver for FSK? My next project is to come up with an IF/detector module for fast -- 112 to 250 kB/sec -- packet radio use. No fancy modulation scheme, just wide FSK for use at 902 or 1296 MHz. I'm a bit familiar with the Motorola 3362 chip, but I wonder if there are newer designs that might work at higher input frequencies. My goal is to come up with an inexpensive design for a receiver ""back end"" with IF input on one end and an FSK demondulator on the other. I'm particularly interested in ways to use a higher IF than 10.7 -- do any current chips work up to, say 150MHz with internal downconversion so a normal IF filter can be used? Any suggestions? John -- John R. Ackermann, Jr. Law Department, NCR Corporation, Dayton, Ohio (513) 445-2966 John.Ackermann@daytonoh.ncr.com Packet Radio: ag9v@n8acv.oh tcp/ip: ag9v@ag9v.ampr [44.70.12.232] ",12 "Re: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter? msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes: >Thanks again. One final question. The name Gehrels wasn't known to >me before this thread came up, but the May issue of Scientific American >has an article about the ""Inconstant Cosmos"", with a photo of Neil >Gehrels, project scientist for NASA's Compton Gamma Ray Observatory. >Same person? No. I estimate a 99 % probability the Gehrels referred to is Thomas Gehrels of the Spacewatch project, Kitt Peak observatory. Maybe in the 24th century they could do gamma ray spectroscopy on distant asteroids with an orbiting observatory, but here in the primitive 20th we have to send a probe there to get gamma ray spectroscopy done. >Mark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto ""Information! ... We want information!"" >utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com -- The Prisoner You have the info on Mayan Television yet? >This article is in the public domain. -- Phil Fraering |""Seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|Like how the ancient Mayans had televison."" Repo Man ",14 "Re: The Old Key Registration Idea... In article <1qn1ic$hp6@access.digex.net> pcw@access.digex.com (Peter Wayner) writes: >That leads me to conjecture that: ... >2) The system is vulnerable to simple phone swapping attacks I seriously doubt that any practical implementation of this proposal would place the onus on the individual to register keys. Realistically, the Clipper-Chip will probably emit an ID code which will serve as the identifier when requesting the key fragments. The chip manufacturer would register this identifier code vs. key combination when the chip is made and the (uninitiated) end-user can therefore remain completely outside the loop. The chip could be used in a cellular phone, a modem, or other device -- it really makes no difference: When the authorities detect the use of this encryption standard during surveillance, they would then capture the ID and apply for the key in order to decrypt the data. -- Rob Stampfli rob@colnet.cmhnet.org The neat thing about standards: 614-864-9377 HAM RADIO: kd8wk@n8jyv.oh There are so many to choose from. ",11 "Re: National Sales Tax, The Movie golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: > >(the VAT in Canada is visible unlike the invisible VATS they >have in Europe) Also, note that the VAT in Canada, called the GST, was always there in a hidden form as a manufacturers' wholesale tax. It was reconfigured to be visible, and is not a new tax ... but retailers taking a free price hike during the transition did make it a new tax *in practice* until some prices finally did get rolled back when the private sector quietly realized that they had shot themselves in the foot (at least relieved that the Tories took the heat, not themselves --- but the writing was on the wall). gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",18 "Re: Freeman Frank Benson: > Watch your language ASSHOLE!!!! Another spelling flame? Aren't you the guy who threatens people on talk.politics.guns? 2nd amendment yea, 1st amendment nay. How'd you arrive on TPM? In a fruit basket?? ",17 "Windows 3.1 or DOS 5.0 or SMARTDRV or ??? Hello, I thought this problem might have something to do with Windows 3.1 SMARTDRV and a VESA video card...any ideas??? I recently purchased a 486DX-33 machine and am having problems where the machine will suddenly freeze or reboot. This may happen in Windows 3.1 or DOS 5.0. Sometimes it is after printing a document, sometimes after using the mouse, and sometimes just when I am sitting there. Twice when it happened, the machine rebooted and sounded seven beeps. I looked in the documentation and the seven beep code meant a problem with interrupts. The machine has the following configuration and files: 486DX-33 AMI BIOS 5.25 and 3.5 floppies 170 Meg IDE hard drive 256k cache Microsoft compatible mouse on com1 Citizen GSX-145 on lpt1 NI SuperVGA Monitor with VESA Windows Accelerator Card w/ 1Meg Two VESA slots Windows 3.1 DOS 5.0 CONFIG.SYS ========== DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS DOS=HIGH DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE FILES=20 BUFFERS=20 STACKS=9,128 AUTOEXEC.BAT ============ @ECHO OFF LH C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE 1024 PROMPT $p$g PATH C:\DOS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\MOUSE LH C:\MOUSE\MOUSE SET TEMP=C:\DOS LH C:\DOS\DOSKEY When the machine freezes, I can't use the mouse or keyboard or use Ctrl-Alt-Del to reboot. If any one can give me any help, I would greatly appreciate it. If anyone can help configure this machine for the best efficiency (memory wise) I would appreciate that also. -- Douglas B. Dodson Internet: DBD@ICF.HRB.COM HRB Systems, Inc. State College, PA USA 16804 Disclaimer! =========== Any ideas or opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect the ideas or opinions of HRB. ",2 "Re: ACM SIGGRAPH (and ACM in general) In article <1993Apr29.023508.11556@koko.csustan.edu> rsc@altair.csustan.edu (Steve Cunningham) writes: | |And no, SIGGRAPH 93 has not skipped town -- we're preparing the best |SIGGRAPH conference yet! Speaking of SIGGRAPH, I just went through the ordeal of my annual registration for SIGGRAPH and re-upping of membership in the ACM last night, and was I ever grossed out! The new prices for membership are almost highway robbery! For example: SIGGRAPH basic fee went from $26 last year to $59 this year for the same thing, a 127% increase. Those facile enough to arrange a trip to the annual conference could reduce this to $27 by selecting SIGGRAPH Lite, which means SIGGRAPH is charging an additional $32 (or so) for the proceedings and the art show catalog, essentially. TOPLAS went up 40% in cost, way outstripping the current inflation rate. Basic SIGCHI fees remainded the same, but whereas before SIGCHI membership included UIST and Human Factors conferences proceedings, these are now an extra cost option. Bundling that back into the basic rate, equivalent services have gone up 100% in cost. SIGOIS membership cost has up 33%, but they've also split out the Computer Supported Cooperative Work conference proceedings that used to be included with membership. Adding that cost back in means this SIG also has doubled its membership fee. What really galls me is that the ACM sent out brochures a couple months ago touting their new approach to providing member services, and tried to make it sound like they were offering NEW services. But with the exception of a couple, like SIGGRAPH, all the ""plus"" services appear to be just splitting the costs into smaller piles so that they don't look so big. But their recommended changes to my membership would have me paying 90% more than last year for a 31% increase in services (measured by cost, not by value), and, curiously, a 31% inflation rate on the publications I got last year. Is anyone out there as galled by this extortion as I am? ________________________________________________________________________________ Robert Reed Home Animation Ltd. 503-656-8414 robert@slipknot.rain.com 5686 First Court, West Linn, OR 97068 SHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT IN VARIOUS LANGUAGES AND SYSTEMS Motif: You spend days writing a UIL description of your foot, the trajectory, the bullet, and the intricate scrollwork on the ivory handles of the gun. When you finally get around to pulling the trigger, the gun jams. ________________________________________________________________________________ ",1 "Question on EISA video board performance I have an EISA machine and I just do not understand why most EISA video cards only match the performance of their ISA counterparts. For instance, the EISA Orchid Pro Designer IIs-E is only about as ""fast"" as the ISA Diamond SpeedStar Plus, which isn't what I would call ""fast."" I don't understand why EISA video cards aren't, as a group, on the same level of performance as Local Bus cards, given that EISA video cards have a 32 bit bus to move data around, instead of ISA's 8 bits. Since they are not, why would anyone (me included) pay a higher cost for a EISA video card when its performance is no better than and often worse that a much cheaper ISA video board, such as a Diamond SpeedStar 24X? From PC Magazine's (I think) recent report, I know that ATI makes a pretty fast EISA video card, but it's around $500, which is just about double what my wallet will allow me to spend. And, for $500, I could get a Diamond Viper and still have $100 left over (of course, I'd have to get a Local Bus mother- board too...) Can anyone shed some light on my confusion/frustration? Thanks! Christopher Wroten, cfw@world.std.com ",2 "Re: S1, S2 In article <1r60ue$102@access.digex.net> steve-b@access.digex.com writes: > The only theory that makes any sense is that S1 and S2 are either the >same for all chips, or vary among very few possibilities, so that anyone >trying to break the encryption by brute force need only plow through the >possible serial numbers (2^30, about one billion), multiplied by the number >of different S1, S2 combinations. > Iff the phones transmit their serial nos. as part of the message then what is to say that each phone can take that serial number and use it to generate the required key.... ",11 "Re: Is car saftey important? jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes: >In article <1r1jr9$m1v@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes: >>tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes: >>I figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough >>for me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are >>lots of low-speed collisions that do worry me. >Get into an 30+ mph accident and you may reconsider. I've been in one >and it is *really* scarey. My life is something I value more >than a car's looks or handeling. Consider it insurance, it may not >happen often but when it does, you'll sure be glad you got a safe car. >Granted the tests aren't perfect but I'd much rather be in a car that >did well in the test than a car that did horribly. You raise a valid point, but again it's a tradeoff -- how much money do you want to spend for that kind of protection? You could buy a Volvo, Saab, or 'Benz and get really good crash protection (and other luxuries) but you'll pay significantly more for it. In my case it's out of the question because *all* of those cars are beyond my budget. Even in high-speed head-on collisions the most beneficial item you can have is a good old 3-point seatbelt. Nowadays, at least in the US, you get an airbag if you get a 3-point belt so (presumably) you get an added safety benefit there as well. That's something I certainly look for and which can be had in inexpensive cars. My $.02, of course. jim frost jimf@centerline.com ",7 "PC games (joystick) port >Subject says it all - could someone tell me the pinout >for a PC type analogue joystick port? Joystick A: 1 +5 VDC 2 Button 1 3 X Axis 4 Ground 5 Ground 6 Y Axis 7 Button 2 8 + 5 VDC Joystick B: 9 +5 VDC 10 Button 1 11 X Axis 12 Ground 13 Y axis 14 Button 2 15 +5 VDC --- . SLMR 2.1 . Soft judges make hardened criminals. ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",12 "Re: Clayton is an asshole (but we all already know that) In article rogerd@netcom.com (Roger D.) writes: >Adisak Pochanayon (pochanay@cae.wisc.edu) wrote: >: >>In article <15501@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: >: >>|> Homosexuals are vicious, screwed-up, often >: >>|> really evil people. >: >>|> I've learned quite a bit in the last two years. Evil, vicious, >: >>|> dishonest, lying scum is the only way to describe homosexuals. >: >>|> Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! >: I believe that Clayton is full of shit. Who could believe anyone so biased >: and so obviously misaligned? If he were the slightest bit open-minded, he wouldn't >: write such slanted smears. Especially to generalize an entire group of people. > >I would say this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black! > > Really now. Why is this the pot calling the kettle black? I am stating that a person who shows a continually biased opinion is close-minded and that his opinion should be ignored. Clayton is stating that a group of at least two million (1%) American citizens are evil vicious malicious child-molesters. Here's a hypothetical question... If Clayton said something like ""all those niggers are really stupid."" (Please don't be offended, I'm not racist but merely using an example of Clayton's malign logic). And then said he read a report that a lot of blacks in inner cities dropped out of school, I bet he wouldn't have your support. Yet he can claim that all homosexuals are dishonest, evil, lying child molesters without *PERSONALLY* having a single homosexual friend or acquaintance and you'll sit there and support him. God created a place for bigots. It's called Hell and Clayton is going to burn there for a long time. I pray for him to find in his heart the Christian values he espouses so that he can learn to love his gay brothers and sisters, because anyone with so much hatred in his soul coulld never be righteous. ",18 "Re: What is a squid? (was Re: Riceburner Respect) Dana H. Myers, on the Tue, 20 Apr 93 19:51:16 GMT wibbled: : In article hartzler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Jerry Hartzler - CATS) writes: : >In article <1993Apr15.192558.3314@icomsim.com> mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael Manning) writes: : > : >>duck. Squids don't wave, or return waves ever, even to each : > ^^^^^^ : > excuse me for being an ignoramus, but what are these. : Squids are everybody but me and you. Chris Behanna is especially a squid. : * Dana H. Myers I'm a BMW Squid. Two of my arms are longer, too. -- Nick (the BS Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Longer Arms M'Lud. Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large. /~~~\ ""Teneo tuus intervallum"" Cuurrently incarcerated at BNR, {-O^O-} npet@bnr.ca '86 BMW K100RS ""Kay"" Maidenhead, The United Kingdom. \ o / Pres. PBWASOH(UK), BS 0002 (- ",8 "Re: Why is my mouse so JUMPY? (MS MOUSE) My original post: >Subject: Re: Why is my mouse so JUMPY? (MS MOUSE) >> I have a Microsoft Serial Mouse and am using mouse.com 8.00 (was using 8.20 >> I think, but switched to 8.00 to see if it was any better). Vertical motion >> is nice and smooth, but horizontal motion is so bad I sometimes can't click >> on something because my mouse jumps around. I can be moving the mouse to >> the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly >> for a bit, then jump to the right, then move smoothly for a bit then jump >> again (maybe this time to the left about .5 inch!). This is crazy! I have >> never had so much trouble with a mouse before. Anyone have any solutions? Aha, I think I found the problem and it isn't dirt! Another guy here was using a different kind of mouse and was using 640x400x16 video driver (the default VGA for Windows). He has an S3 LocalBus card like I do and when I loaded the S3 video driver in Windows for him, his mouse became jumpy too. Seems like it is the S3 driver! Is there any newer one than version 1.4 that would solve this problem? It is really bad. I have to use the keyboard instead sometimes! The s3-w31.zip on cica is version 1.4 (which is the same version that came with my card). --- Sean Eckton Computer Support Representative College of Fine Arts and Communications D-406 HFAC Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)378-3292 hfac_csr@byu.edu ecktons@ucs.byu.edu ",2 "Some questions from a new Christian In a previous article, 18669@bach.udel.edu (Steven R Hoskins) writes: > > One of my questions I would > like to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological > works intended for a lay person? > I would recommend ""Essential Truthes of the Christian Faith"" by RC Sproul. It is copywrited 1992 from Tyndale House Publishers. Sproul offers concise explanations, in simple language, of around 100 different Christian doctrines, grouped by subject. I think it would be particularly good for newer Christians (and older Christians suffering spiritual malnutrition), as it gives a Biblically sound basic treatment of the issues, avoiding long in-depth analysis that can wait until after you know the basics. --- Dave Weaver | ""He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com| gain what he cannot lose."" - Jim Elliot (1949) ",15 "Re: Forsale and Wanted (HD/Fax/Typewriter) From article <1pf5qe$b3b@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>, by jorge@erex.East.Sun.COM (Jorge Lach - Sun BOS Hardware): > > I'm looking to *buy* the following items: > > Fax machine: a plain one, don't need any extras, just the basic model. Good > working order only. These sell in stores for dirt cheap, so don't > make me any offers like ""it cost me $599 but I'll sell it for $400"" > > PC-AT Hard Drive: MFM type, 40 Mbytes, half-height only. I have a Seagate > ST-151 (3.5"") on my machine, looking for same or similar type > > > I have the following item for *sale*: > > Electronic Typewriter: Panasonic, with 22K memory, small LCD display. I'm > selling it bundled with a Panasonic computer interface for this > typewriter. You can connect it to any PC parallel port (sorry, no > cable). It works perfect, even in Windows (TTY printer). It's > great if you need to send letter with ""typewriter look"". In > stand-alone mode it has 3 pitches, and several ""effects"" like > underline, bold, overstrike. Built-in dictionary and character/word/ > line correction. Asking $150 for both the typewriter and the > interface > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jorge Lach Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation > Jorge.Lach@East.Sun.Com East Coast Division, Chelmsford, MA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ",6 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 Martin Preston (prestonm@cs.man.ac.uk) wrote: : In ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B) writes: : : >I've got the 6.0 spec (obviously since I quoted it in my last posting). : >My gripe about TIFF is that it's far too complicated and nearly : >infinitely easier to write than to read,... : : Why not use the PD C library for reading/writing TIFF files? It took me a : good 20 minutes to start using them in your own app. : : Martin : What is the name of this PD C library for TIFF. I'd like to get a copy of it, but I can't Archie for something I don't have the filename for. Thanks. ",1 "Re: Exercise and Migraine In article <1993Apr15.163133.25634@ntmtv> janet@ntmtv.com (Janet Jakstys) writes: >This isn't the first time that I've had a migraine occur after exercise. >I'm wondering if anyone else has had the same experience and I wonder >what triggers the migraine in this situation (heat buildup? dehydration?). >I'm not giving up tennis so is there anything I can do (besides get into >shape and don't play at high noon) to prevent this? I've gotten migraines after exercise, though for me it seems to be related to exercising without having eaten recently. Sherri Nichols snichols@adobe.com ",13 "Re: Use of haldol in elderly Lawrence Curcio (lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: : I've seen people in their forties and fifties become disoriented and : demented during hospital stays. In the examples I've seen, drugs were : definitely involved. : My own father turned into a vegetable for a short time while in the : hospital. He was fifty-three at the time, and he was on 21 separate : medications. The family protested, but the doctors were adamant, telling : us that none of the drugs interact. They even took the attitude that, if : he was disoriented, they should put him on something else as well! With : the help of an MD friend of the family, we had all his medication : discontinued. He had a seizure that night, and was put back on one drug. : Two days later, he was his old self again. I guess there aren't many : medical texts that address the subject of 21-way interactions. I saw the same thing happen to my father, and I can more or less validate your take on hospitals. It seems to me that medical science understands precious little about taking care of the human machine. Drugs are given as a response to symptoms (and I guess that makes sense since all the studies that validate the effectiveness of those drugs are based on a narrow assessment of the degree of particular symptoms). But there seems to be very little appreciation for the well-being of a person outside of the numbers that appear on a test. I watched my dad wither away and lose huge amounts of body fat and muscles tissue while in the hospital. There is something a little crazy about a system in which there is more attention paid to giving you every latest drug available than there is attention paid to whether you have had enough to eat to prevent loss of muscle tissue. It is really, really bizarre. -- Will Estes Internet: westes@netcom.com ",13 "Re: Moonbase race To: Newsgroups: sci.space From: jim.mcnelly@hal9k.com (Jim McNelly) Message-ID: Organization: The McNelly Group, Composting Consultants @mojo.eng.umd.edu> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 17:16:24 CDT Marvin Batty dfj@uk.ac.cov.cck writes: MB>Also, what about bio-engineered CO2 absorbing plants instead of many LOX bot MB>? I wonder why the term ""bio-engineered"" was added to the comment? As I review the problems of Space Biosphere2 in Arizona, and work on modelling a new composting/vermiculture system to propose for the next generation of closed system environments, I believe that biological carbon sinks are essential to help regulate CO2. In my models, humus is an optimum carbon repository that can help buffer increases in atmpospheric CO2. Why consider ""bio-engineering"" some mythical plant when the existing organisms are well suited to the task if managed properly? --- . SLMR 2.0 . Finally! I found the last bug..last bug..last b......... . QNet3. . * * ORIGIN: GRANITE BBS * St. Cloud MN * 612-654-8372 HST ---- | HAL 9000 BBS: QWK-to-Usenet gateway | Four 14400 v.32bis dial-ins | | FREE Usenet mail and 200 newsgroups! | PCBoard 14.5aM * uuPCB * Kmail | | Call +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 +--------------------------------+ | Member of EFF, ASP, ASAD * 1500MB disk * Serving Ann Arbor since 1988 | ",14 "SIMM for Sale I have 1 4Mx9 70ns 36pin SIMM for Sale. It is in perfect condition. It will not work in my system because it requires 72 pin SIMMS. I would like to get what I paid for it. $115 + 3 for insured shipping. In addition, if you have a 4MB 70ns 72 pin EISA or PS/2 type SIMM for sale, drop me a line. Thanks. Nimesh Shah nshah@acs.bu.edu ",3 "PC, NETWORK and OFFICE EQUIPMENT - LONG (Repost, Lower Prices!) NEW POSTING, LOWER PRICES!! MAKE OFFERS ON ANYTHING THAT SEEMS INTERESTING!! A company I'm associated with is closing out some inventory and office equipment. Here's what's available: Quan. Item Description Price ea. ******* NEW ADDITIONS!! ******** 1 NOVELL * 100 USER * version of BEST OFFER NETWARE 2.15 ADVANCED NETWARE 286, with TTS, SFT II System Fault Tolerance level (Remember II (Disk Duplexing, Mirroring), v2.2 sells Transaction Tracking (Fault for $3000 Tolerant File System), etc. for 100 Just the manuals alone take users! up a foot and a half of shelf space! 1 HAYES LANSTEP HAYES Peer-to-Peer LAN $40 Starter Package OPERATING SYSTEM and email. NetBIOS compatible, expands up to 128 users. UNOPENED. 1 Canon NP1010 Great little COPY MACHINE - $200 makes great copies (just needs toner) Reduce, Enlarge, etc. Very Good Condition, a bargain! (End of new items) 2 Bytex RingOut Token Ring Cable and MAU (Was $750) testing and certification tool. This is the standard NOW: $625 HANDHELD TESTING UNIT used by large companies such as Coca Cola and American Express to certify their physical layer. Current retail price: $1495. These are demo or NEW. 1 Microtest Lanmodem Excellent MODEM SERVER for Novell (Was Networks. Supports ""Remote LAN $900) Node"" indial, modem pooling, and LAN to LAN asynchronous routing. NOW: Ethernet version. Current retail $750 price: $2000 13 Microtest Lanport Standalone ETHERNET PRINT WAS: $200 AUI --> COM1 SERVER for Novell Networks (The Intel NetportII is NOW: $150 ea. based on this. Original retail: $595) Most of these are BRAND NEW. 12 Microtest Lanport See above "" BNC --> COM1 11 Microtest Lanport See above "" BNC --> COM1, COM2 3 Microtest Lanport See above "" AUI --> COM1, COM2 4 Microtest Lanport See above "" AUI --> LPT1 1 Microtest Lanport See above "" BNC --> LPT1 2 Token Ring MAU 8-port IBM 8228 clone $100 5 Milan MIL-03P AUI to 10BaseT Mini TRANSCEIVER (WAS: $50) NOW: $40 1 QMS SmartWriter 8/3X HP LaserJet PLUS Compatible (WAS $400) LASER PRINTER. 8 ppm, 300 dpi. Based on the Canon Engine, it NOW: $325 has serial and IBM TWINAX ports. Emulates HP, Epson FX, IBM Proprinter, Diablo, and Qume. Downloads HP fonts. Reliable! 2 IBM Quietwriter 2 Quiet, letter-quality PRINTER. $100 1 sheet at a time feed. Have extra ribbon cartridges. 1 IBM Tractor Feed For the Quietwriter above. $25 3 IBM PC/XT Compatible Misc PC/XT compatible COMPUTERS, (WAS: some are ""PCs Limited"" (original $150) DELL Computer Co.), some are ""Tech PC/XT"". These come with NOW: at least a 20 MB hard disk, a $125 360 KB floppy, monochrome video card, keyboard, and 640 kb of memory. 3 IBM PC/AT or Compatible Some of these are original IBM (WAS: $200- AT's, some are TURBO clones. $250) Clone brands include Tandon, Acer, and Everex. Standard NOW: $175- equipment is the same as above, $200 except most have 30-40 MB hard drives, and 1 1.2 MB floppy. 4 Amber Monitor for PC IBM Compatible Monochrome TTL $20 type, brands vary, including Samsung, Magnavox, and ADI. (Mostly want to stay local on these - too hard to ship) 2 IBM 5151 Green Monitor Ubiquitous IBM PC Display, $20 Monochrome TTL type. (Local - see above) 1 Zenith ZFL181-92 LAPTOP PC. Full-Size and Full- (WAS $300) Travel keyboard, XT compatible, Backlit Supertwist (?) Display, NOW: $250 Dual 720k floppies. 1 Accton EtherCoax-8W 8-bit, BNC ETHERNET INTERFACE (WAS: $60) card for PC compatibles. This unit is nicely made (mostly NOW: $45 (Also have 1 used, BO) surface mount) clone of the ubiquitous Western Digital WD-8003E. NEW in box with disk. 6 Western Digital WD8003E The ""real McCoy"" version of the $50 above. Drivers are available for just about anything. Used. Surprising performance for an 8 bit card. No DMA hassles. 1 Hedaka 2400 Modem Internal, for PC Compatibles. (WAS: $35) In box, almost new, works fine. NOW: $25 1 Hayes 1200B Internal Internal 1200 real HAYES modem $15 for PC compatibles. Untested. Terms on the above are C.O.D., shipping extra. As usual, offers are welcome, but I think most of these prices are more than fair. Most of this equipment is tested and working perfectly, unless otherwise noted. Please contact me via email as follows: pk@wet.com {netcom,hoptoad}!wet!pk Thanks! ",6 "Re: Israeli Terrorism Andi Beyer writes: > What is a shame is that in Austria, daily reports of > the inhuman acts commited by Israeli soldiers and the blessing > received from the Government makes some of the Holocaust guilt > go away. After all, look how the Jews are treating other races > when they got power. It is unfortunate. > This can be turned around. The Austrians who should feel guilty about their actions during WWII, but don't, justify their anti-semetism by making every Israeli action into an atrocity. The Austrians, Germans and other Europeans have extensive trading relations with the Arab block; being pro-Arab is good for business. I don't think that ethics has a thing to do about it. Richard Thorne rdt@med.pitt.edu ",17 "Re: Zeos Computers I have had a Zeos for a couple months. While the experience was not painless or perfect, it was way better than that endured by most (7 people I personally know) who have ordered Gateways. (Of course, several of the Gateway buyers were rewarded by getting free stuff as Gateway can't seem to keep track of what it has or hasn't sent out...B{) I got the 1 MB Viper card. The first one was defective, but Zeos replaced it with only minor hassles. This one works fine. I haven't noticed any problems in any of my applications. I also ordered it because of all the complaints about the ATI a few months ago. Guess you can choose either buggy state-of-the-art stuff, or robust average stuff.... For my particular configuration (tower, 300 watt supply, pkg#3, no monitor, viper, etc.) the Zeos was slightly cheaper than Gateway, Austin, etc. But this can change from month to month. Mike ",3 "Pwter Forsberg Can some on e give me some stats on Forsrg in the World Championships If sao mail to ua256@freenet.victoria.bc.ca -- Tom Moffat Victoria B.C. Canada ",10 "Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?) Avoiding mistakes is certainly highly desirable. However it is also widely acknowledged that perfectionism is inimicable to creativity. And in ordinary life, perfectionism carried beyond a certain point is indicative of a psychological disorder. In the extreme case, a perfectionist becomes so paralyzed by all the possible mistakes he might make that he is unable to even leave the house. In science, we want to discover as much truth about the world as possible and we also want to have as much certainty as possible about these discoveries. Usually there is some trade-off between these two desiderata --- the search for scope and the search for certainty. If 18th century mathematicians had demanded total rigor from Newton and Leibniz then there would probably be no calculus today, because neither of the two could explain calculus in a way that really made sense, since they lacked the concept of a limit. And in fact, because of the lack of a rigorous foundation, they made a number of errors in their use of calculus. It was only a hundred years later that Weistrass was able to give a solid grounding for the ideas of Newton and Leibniz. Nonetheless, what Newton and Leibniz did was undoubtedly science and mathematics gained a great deal more from the application of their important ideas than it lost through the mistakes they made. In article <1993Apr14.171230.16138@kestrel.edu> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes: > [ Somebody writes: ] >>I doubt if Einstein used any formal methodology. .... > .... >He also proposed numerous experiments which if performed would distinguish a >universe in which special relativity holds from one in which it does not. > .... >Einstein played by the rules, which demand that hypotheses only be put out >there if there exists a specific experiment that could disprove them. These are not the rules according to many who post to sci.med and sci.psychology. According to these posters ""If it's not supported by carefully designed controlled studies then it's not science."" Taken to the extreme, I believe that the attitude that empirical studies are everything and ideas are nothing results in a complete stultification of science. For one thing, an insistence on an elaborate and expensive methodology results in a sort of scientific trade-unionism, where those outside the establishment and lacking institutional or corporate support have no chance to obtain a hearing. (I don't in the least believe that this is the intention of the arbiters of scientific methodology. Nonetheless, it is one of the results.) And although institutional science has certainly produced many wonderful results, I think it is a foolish arrogance for scientists to believe that no one outside the establishment --- and using less than perfect empirical methodology --- will ever come with anything worthwhile. Furthermore, the big bucks approach to science promotes what I think is one of the most significant errors in science: choosing to investigate questions because they can be readily handled by the currently fashionable methodology (or because one can readily get institutional or corporate sponsorship for them) instead of directing attention to those questions which seem to have fundamental significance. For instance, certain questions cannot be easily investigated with statistical methods because the relevant factors are not quantitative. (One could argue that this is the case for almost all questions in many areas of psychology. In my opinion, a perusal of many of the papers resulting from the attempt by psychologists to force these questions into a statistical framework gives the lie to Russell Turpin's assertion that current scientific methods ""avoid all known errors."") I think that asking the wrong question is probably the most fundamental error in science. (Ignoring potentially valuable ideas is one of the others.) And I think that scientific journals are full of all too many studies done with impeccable empirical methods but which are worthless because the wrong question was asked in the first place. -- In the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems less like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. lady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu lady@uhunix.bitnet ",13 "Re: Catholic doctrine of predestination From article , by creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps): > The Catholic doctrine of predestination does not exclude free will in > any way. Since God knows everything, He therefore knows everything that > is going to happen to us. We have free will, and are able to change > what happens to us. However, since God knows everything, He knows all > the choices we will make ""in advance"" (God is not subject to time). Too > often arguments pit predestination against free will. We believe in > both. Just a little issue of semantics: Would it not be better, then to call it ""pre-determination""?! -- RRRRR OO BBBBB : R R OO OO B B : R R OO OO B BB : Robert Pomeroy R RR O O B B : RRRR O O BBBBB : u2i02@keele.ac.uk R R O O B B : R R OO OO B BB : 1993 R R OO OO B B : R R OO BBBBB : My address } during } Hawthorns Hall, KEELE, Staffordshire, ST5 5AE. England. term-time. } ________ / \ / < Jn3:16 X \________/ \ ",15 "Re: LA ON ABC IN CANADA In article , boora@kits.sfu.ca (The GodFather) writes: > Was the ABC coverage of the Kings/Flames game supposed to be the > way it was shown in BC with CBC overriding the ABC coverage? When I flipped > to ABC, it was the same commentators, same commercials even. My question > is: Was this the real ABC coverage or did CBC just ""black out"" the > ABC coverage for its own? > > Here in Nanaimo (on Vancouver Island, for you furriners out there) we got the ABC coverage on KOMO. It probably depends on your cable company. I started off switching between the CBC and ABC broadcasts, but finally settled on ABC. I can't stand Don Whitman, and Al Michaels was doing a decent job. He followed the play pretty well, knew all the players' names, and only made a couple of ""rookie"" mistakes that I noticed. One thing that surprised me is that they never once attempted to explain the offside rule. Am-I-paranoid-or-is-this-really-happening department: There were no fights in the game, but there were a couple of occasions where it looked like a fight was about to start. Both times ABC cut away to show a closeup of a coach or McNall or something. Has ABC decided to adopt the ""Spicer policy?"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lorne Epp epp@mala.bc.ca ",10 "Re: The 1994 Mustang jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes: > In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU (""The Blad > >I just have got to remind all of you that this is it! Yes, > >that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars) > >will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool > >way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang. It's supposed to be > >100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car > >Ford came out with around January. I can't wait. Anyone out > >there hear anything about it recently? > > > If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but ""re- > skinning"" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications. > And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job > of it. > > The ""new"" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car. > > > I just saw a picture of the '94 Mustang in Popular Mechanics - what a disappointment after being bombarded with pictures of the Mach III... jp ",7 "Re: Countersteering sans Hands In article <1993Apr20.203344.8417@cs.cornell.edu> karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr) writes: >In article Clarke@bdrc.bd.com (Richard Clarke) writes: >>So how do I steer when my hands aren't on the bars? (Open Budweiser in left >>hand, Camel cigarette in the right, no feet allowed.) > >>If I lean, and the >>bike turns, am I countersteering? > >No, the bars would turn only *toward* the direction of turn in >no-hands steering. Just in case the original poster was looking for a serious answer, I'll supply one. Yes, even when steering no hands you do something quite similar to countersteering. Basically to turn left, you to a quick wiggle of the bike to the right first, causing a counteracting lean to occur to the left. It is a lot more difficult to do on a motorcycle than a bicycle though, because of the extra weight. (Ok, so my motorcycle is heavy. Maybe yous isn't.) -David ",8 "FAQ: Typing Injuries (1/4): Changes since last month [monthly posting] Archive-name: typing-injury-faq/changes Version: $Revision: 1.3 $ $Date: 1993/04/13 04:12:33 $ This file details changes to the soda.berkeley.edu archive and summarizes what's new in the various FAQ (frequently asked questions) documents. This will be posted monthly, along with the full FAQ to the various net groups. The various mailing lists will either receive the full FAQ every month, or every third month, but will always get this file, once per month. Phew! ============================================================================ Changes to the Typing Injuries FAQ and soda.berkeley.edu archive, this month ============================================================================ a few new files on the soda.berkeley.edu archive the TidBITS ""Caring for your wrists"" document RSI Network #11 Advice about ""adverse mechanical tension"" More details about the new Apple keyboard more info about carpal tunnel syndrome (carpal.explained) more general info about RSI (rsi.details, rsi.physical) marketing info on the Vertical MacWeek article the Bat new details on hooking a normal PC keyboard to an RS/6000 updated pricing info on the DataHand and Comfort Half-QWERTY now available for anonymous ftp on explorer.dgp.toronto.edu new GIF picutures! The Apple Adjustable Keyboard The Key Tronic FlexPro another picture of the Kinesis The Vertical The Tony! ============================================================================ If you'd like to receive a copy of the FAQ and you didn't find it in the same place you found this document, you can either send e-mail to dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu, or you can anonymous ftp to soda.berkeley.edu (128.32.149.19) and look in the pub/typing-injury directory. Enjoy! -- Dan Wallach ""One of the most attractive features of a Connection dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu Machine is the array of blinking lights on the faces Office#: 510-642-9585 of its cabinet."" -- CM Paris Ref. Manual, v6.0, p48. ",13 "Encapsulated Postscript and X How do I view .eps files on X? I have an image in color encapsulated postscript, and need to view it on my screen. Are there any utilities that will let me convert between encapsulated postscript and plain postscript? Joseph Sirosh ",5 "Re: Can't set COM4 In article mtc@fnnews.fnal.gov, uchima@fncrdh.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima) writes: >I also am having a problem with COM4 on a G2K system. I have a Gateway 2K 486DX/33 system with the ATI Ultrapro video card (identical to the system mentioned in the original posting, except 33MHz instead of 66). For some reason, the system refuses to recognize COM4. For example, if I configure the on-board (motherboard) COM ports for COM1/COM2, everything is fine; if I configure them for COM3/COM4, COM3 works OK, but COM4 is not recoznized. The diagnostics shipped with the system, the MSD utility > > > > > >Windows all act as if the port isn't there. It's not an IRQ conflict, because I can swap the IRQs for COM3 and COM4, and COM3 still works (and COM4 still doesn't). > >I actually noticed this problem when trying to install 2 additional ports (a BOCA high speed 2S/1P card). The behavior with the BOCA card was exactly the same (e.g. it would work as COM1, COM2, or COM3, but not as COM4). > >This has the smell of an I/O port conflict, but I can't imagine with what. There are no other expansion cards installed in the machine other than the video card, and Gateway would have to be pretty stupid to have the on-board COM4 conflict with something else on the motherboard! > >Has anybody else had this problem? I ran into this about six months ago. My system is a GW2000 486DX/66V, 8 megs RAM, 1Meg ATI GUP VLB. It seems the problem is that the ATI Graphics Ultra Pro card consumes the COM4 port for some reason, so only COM1-3 are available. I believe this is documented somewhere in the system manuals, but I can't recall where. Dave Peterschmidt ",3 "Re: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days In article <1rs8hlINN8he@gap.caltech.edu>, palmer@cco.caltech.edu (David M. Palmer) writes... > >You may want to put Hubble back in the payload bay for a reboost, >and you don't want to clip off the panels each time. The ""artist renderings"" that I've seen of the HST reboost still have the arrays fully extended, with a cradle holding HST at a ~30 degree angle to the Shuttle. I think the rendering was conceived before the array replacemnet was approved, so I'm not sure if the current reboost will occur with the arrays deployed or not. However, it doesn't appear that an array retraction was necessary for reboost. > >For the Gamma-Ray Observatory, one of the design requirements was that >there be no stored-energy mecahnisms (springs, explosive squibs, gas shocks, >etc.) used for deployment. This was partially so that everything could >be reeled back in to put it back in the payload bay, and partially for >safety considerations. (I've heard that the wings on a cruise missile >would cut you in half if you were standing in their swath when they opened.) > Thanks for the input on GRO's S/A design constraints. That would explain the similar design on UARS. >Back when the shuttle would be going up every other day with a cost to >orbit of $3.95 per pound :-), everybody designed things for easy servicing. > Heck, the MMS project used to design _missions_ with servicing in mind. The XTE spacecraft was originally designed as an on-orbit replacement for the instrument module on EUVE. That way, you get two instruments for the price of one spacecraft bus (the Explorer Platform). A second on-orbit replacement was also considered, with the FUSE telescope. >-- > David M. Palmer palmer@alumni.caltech.edu > palmer@tgrs.gsfc.nasa.gov David W. @ GSFC ",14 "Re: logic of backup? In the newer versions of Norton Backup for Windows (2.0 at least) there is an ""emergency"" disk, which will allow you to restore from tape without reinstalling DOS/Windows (I understand it's sort of cumbersome to use, but not nearly as much as reinstalling everything!) *********************************************************************** * Steven A. McCluney * Better to remain silent and be * * sam4628@chensun2m.tamu.edu * thought a fool than to speak and * * * remove all doubts... * * I can hardly speak for myself * * *********************************************************************** ",2 "Re: Schatzki Ring/ PVC's In article <1993Apr27.180334@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov>, ohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov wrote: > > [summarized] A person with a Schatzki's ring (a membrane partially blocking the espphagus) has worsening dysphagia (difficulty swallowing) and the doctor proposes dilation by balloow or bougie (using an inflatable balloon to rupture the ring or a rubber hose to push through it. Question: is balloon dilation safe, common, and indicated? It sounds pretty invasive. > [end summary] Yes, this is a common and safe procedure. The majority of Schatzki's rings described by x-ray, however, wnd up being due to inflammation instead of the congenital Schatzki's ring. Occassionally a cancer masquerades as a ring. You should have the endoscopy to see if it is due to the heartburn, and if so, you will need treatment for the heartburn ong term. The balloon dilation is an alternative to cutting open your chest and cutting out a section of the esophagus, so dilation is not at all invasive, considering the alternative. > The second issue: [summarized] He has had extra heartbeats for the past 3 to 4 years, and once was symptomatic from them, with some lightheadedness. He is young, (30-ish), thin and in good > health (recent bloodtests were all normal), and do not smoke, use drugs or > caffeine, etc. I'm willing to accept the extra beats as ""normal"", but don't > want to ignore them if they might be some kind of warning symptom. The number > of PVC's seems to increase throughout the day, and with exercise (or something > as simple as climbing some stairs). Also, if I get up after sitting or lying > down for a while, I tend to get a couple of extra beats. Could they possibly > be related to the esophagous problems? Both seemed to develop at about the > same time. I' not an expert on heart problems, but PVC's are common and have been overtreated in the past. My personal experience, and I have the same history an build you do (related to the heart, that is), is that my PVC's come and go, with some months causing anxiety. Taking on more fluids seems to help, and they seem worse in the summer. Remember that a slow heart rate will allow more PVC's to be apparent, so perhaps it is an indication of a healthy cardiac system (but ask an expert about that last point, especially) Good luck, hope we don't die of arrhythmias. (God, what a happy thought) Steve Holland ",13 "Re: CLINTON JOINS LIST OF GENOCIDAL SOCIALIST LEADERS In <1993Apr23.153005.8237@starbase.trincoll.edu> () writes: > I've yet to meet a group of Baptists who were stockpiling Cambell's soup > and M-16's/AR-15's and banging/marrying thirteen yuear olds. You're a sorry > son of a bitch if you can't draw a distinction between these two things. > People like you cheapen our constitution by using it to defend sociopaths > who aren't deserved of it. Get a life and chill on the paranoia. I am not a paranoid, nor a government toady, nor even am I the guy you were talking to originally, but I think you are simply NOT PAYING ATTENTION. A bunch of people living off by themselves with a lot of guns nearby is not that wierd in Texas. My own family, very quiet taxpayers with extremely con- ventional views, has something like 10 rifles and shotguns in a two-person home. Some of them were mine, but I don't live there anymore. I now have my own shotgun in my apartment. Texas Child Protective Services (which loves to find child abuse) found no, I repeat NO, evidence of abuse when they first looked at the BD, and is saying that they see none in any of the kids who were released. There is no evidence that Koresh was banging anyone but his wives. It is not against the law to stockpile (most) weapons or campbell's soup. Nor is there any hard evidence in the form of actual hardware (as I write this) to prove the BD really had any *proscribed* weapons. I feel they were all loonies, but there is no indication that they ever bothered anyone. They were gone after in the wrong ways for the wrong reasons, and the BATF and FBI who are so busy trumpeting this child abuse angle hasn't got a leg to stand on or any right to be involved in such abuse cases anyway. If there was any real danger of the BD's going out on a rampage, then that is up to the officers of the state of Texas, who are probably getting a per- verse bit of pleasure at getting to torque the Feds for fucking up something in their state. semper fi, Jammer Jim Miller Texas A&M University '89 and '91 ________________________________________________________________________________ I don't speak for UH, which is too bad, because they could use the help. ""Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."" ""Power finds its way to those who take a stand. Stand up, Ordinary Man."" ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph ",16 "Speedstar 24 - how to program the TrueColor mode ? Hello, I purchased my new 486 with a NoName graphics card installed which is obviously Speedstar 24 compatible. Its name is ""VGA 4000 TrueColor"". It is accompanied with some drivers and the utilities VMODE, XMODE and at least one more MODE, as well as some drivers for Lotus, Windows, etc. Only one of the drivers is told to provide the TrueColor mode, namely the Windows 3.1 driver. Nowhere else, except in the ad, is any pointer to the TrueColor mode. Some articles in this group about the Speedstar 24 and some other facts made me believe that my card is compatible to that one. Does anybody out there know how this mode can be adjusted? How can I write a driver which allows me to have 16.7 millions of colors with a resolution of 640 x 480 with 45 Hz interlaced ? Greetings, Wolfgang ",1 "Re: How to beat Pittsburgh! from Anna Matyas: >>Now if we could just clone Chelios's personality and transplant it >>into all of the defensemen on the Islanders, Capitals, and Devils... >> >>Gerald > >In other words, you want to turn them all into assholes so they >will spend lots of time in the penalty box and get lots of >misconducts? > >And this comes from a Chelios fan... Yeah, and also be second in the team in scoring and play about 35 minutes a game and play on the power play and kill penalties and be the best defenseman in the league. I'd take a whole team of Chelioses if I could. (That way, when one got a penalty the others could kill it!) Ralph ",10 "crappy Honda CX650 Hi, I just have a small question about my bike. Being a fairly experienced BMW and MZ-Mechanic, I just don't know what to think about my Honda. She was using too much oil for the last 5000 km (on my trip to Daytona bike week this spring), and all of a sudden, she trailed smoke like hell and was running only on one cylinder. I towed the bike home and took it apart, but everything looks in perfect working order. No cracks in the heads or pistons, the cylinder walls look very clean, and the wear of pistons and cylinders is not measurable. All still within factory specs. The only thing I could find, however, was a slightly bigger ring gap on the right cylinder (the one with the problem), but it is still way below the wear-limit given in the Clymer-manual for this bike. Any syggestions??? What else could cause my problem??? Do I have to hone the cylinder walls (make them a little rougher in a criss-cross-pattern) in order to get better breaking in of my new rings??? Won't that increase the wear of my pistons?? Please send comments to sruhl@mechanical.watstar.uwaterloo.ca Thanks in advance. Stef. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Ruhl german exchange student. Don't poke into my privacy ! ",8 "White Sox Mailing List? Hi Gang, I'd like to subscribe to the White Sox mailing list, if one exists. Can someone please e-mail me the address? Thanks alot, -John jhunter@mta.ca ",9 "Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics [reply to timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons] >...the same kind of ignorance is demonstrated in just about every post >in this newsgroup. For instance, generalizations about Christianity >are popular. Which newsgroup have you been reading? The few anti-Christian posts are virtually all in response to some Christian posting some ""YOU WILL ALL BURN IN HELL"" kind of drivel. >I'm a soft atheist (courtesy of the FAQ), but even I know enough about >the Bible to see that it repeatedly warns of false prophets preaching >in the name of God. Bake, it is transparently obvious that you are a theist pretending to be an atheist. You probably think you are very clever, but we see this all the time. >But the possibilities of creator and eternity carry with them too much >emotional power to dismiss merely on the basis of this line. But of course *you* have dismissed them because you are an atheist, right? >...just like any other religion, hard atheism is a faith. In other words, you *didn't* read the FAQ after all. David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell ",0 "Storing a car long term I bought a car with a defunct engine, to use for parts for my old but still running version of the same car. The car I bought has good tires. Is there anything in particular that I should do to store the defunct car long-term? I'd hate to have parts of it go bad. Someone has told me it's bad for the tires to not move the car once-in-a-while. Is this true? Do I need some props to take the weight of the tires? Best to reply by mail, I am getting spotty news delivery. Kris A. Kugel 908-842-2707 hico2!kak kak@hico2.westmark.com ",7 "ABC's announcers, ESPN's (lack of) coverage (WAS: Re: Atlanta ...) In article <1993Apr19.160356.19160@newshub.ists.ca>, dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes: |> Ok, here's the solution to your problem. Move to Canada. Yesterday I was able |> to watch FOUR games...the NJ-PITT at 1:00 on ABC, LA-CAL at 3:00 (CBC), |> BUFF-BOS at 7:00 (TSN and FOX), and MON-QUE at 7:30 (CBC). I think that if |> each series goes its max I could be watching hockey playoffs for 40-some odd |> consecutive nights (I haven't counted so that's a pure guess). The worst thing is that this is exactly what I did last year. I had the Rangers on MSG, and the two different games on SCNY and SCA on at the same time. Yes, I'd rather have SC cover it, just for the amount of coverage. |> Btw, those ABC commentaters were great! I was quite impressed; they seemed |> to know that their audience wasn't likely to be well-schooled in hockey lore |> and they did an excellent job. They were quite impartial also, IMO. I think Thorne earns his money. The best part is that he is the same way when he is earning his $$ from SportsChannel as the Devils announcer (i.e., unbiased). He goes orgasmic for goals, despite which team scores, and even more excited (if possible) for great saves. He did a good job of explaining certain things to non-hockey types without offending those of us who follow the sport (unlike NBC's clowns for the ASG). -JPC (Ob. Playoff-time flame-bait) Don't any of you Pittsburgh fans tell me how Mike Lang(e) is better. Maybe if he were a little spontaneous, rather than reading rehearsed lines of B.S having nothing to do with hockey he would be better. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John P. Curcio Go Bruins! Philips Laboratories jpc@philabs.philips.com 345 Scarborough Road (914) 945-6442 Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510 ",10 "Re: How to speed up games (marginally realistic) In article archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com (Archer (Bad Cop) Surly) writes: >In mbohler@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu (Michael Bohler) writes: > >*To really speed up the game umps need to START CALLING STRIKES the way >*they used to. I'm talking about making the strike zone start at the >*knees and go up to the top of the letters. Forget this ""the strike zone >*is in the general area of the groin"". A lot less 3-and-2 counts and a >*quicker game. > >They tried that in the '60's and people stopped coming to the ballparks >in droves, as offense suffered immensely. They lowered the mound first (before the 69 season). The shrinkage of the strike zone didn't start until the mid-70s. -- scott barman | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell): scott@asd.com | mail mets-request@asd.com <, cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes... >In article <1993Apr16.172502.2301@osf.org> dswartz@osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber) writes: > >the best home run i have *ever* seen came off, believe it or not, >Roger Clemens (sorry, Val) a couple of years ago. he threw a ball to >Incaviglia which was literally at Inky's neck, and he absolutely >hammered the crap out of it. after the swing, Clemens nonchalantly >motioned for a new ball--he didn't even turn around to look, or >even get upset. the ball hit the lights in the left-field standard, >some 70 or so feet about the Green Monster (over 100 feet above the >ground total!) > >truly an amazing shot. I was at that game, behind home plate next to a scout who was manning the radar gun. The 1991 season was winding down and Roger didn't have his best fastball, topping out at 88-90 (in contrast to Frank Tanana, who went as low as 50 with one lollipop in the process of striking out Phil Plantier *five* times on the night). Inky's shot would have gone further than any I've ever seen if it hadn't crashed *into* the lights (not the lightstand) as you say over 100 feet high, Roy Hobbs-like, and bounced back onto the field. That had to have been a 525-footer if unobstructed, edging out Bo Jackson's drive off Oil Can Boyd to the top of the centerfield bleacher back wall in 1988 for the best I've seen personally (I was sitting under that one). --- Glenn Waugaman Digital Equipment Corporation Littleton, MA g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com --- ",9 "Re: Windows 3.1 keeps crashing: Please HELP In article <1qur7h$qrl@access.digex.net> wild@access.digex.com (wildstrom) writes: > > >>In article <1993Apr16.155637.15398@oracle.us.oracle.com> ebosco@us.oracle.com (Eric Bosco) writes: >>>From: ebosco@us.oracle.com (Eric Bosco) >>>Subject: Windows 3.1 keeps crashing: Please HELP >>>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 15:56:37 GMT >>> >>>As the subjects says, Windows 3.1 keeps crashing (givinh me GPF) on me of >>>late. It was never a very stable package, but now it seems to crash every >>>day. The worst part about it is that it does not crash consistently: ie I > >There is a way in SYS.INI to turn off RAM parity checking (unfortunately, >my good Windows references are at home, but any standard Win reference >will tell you how to do it. If not, email back to me.) That weird memory >may be producing phony parity errors. Danger is, if you turn checkling off, >you run the slight risk of data corruption due to a missed real error. I had this very same problem, and did 'work around' by turning parity checking off, but that only worked while I was in windows, and the parity error would occur immediately after exiting windows, however,the problem turned out to be 3 chip simms vs 9 chip simms. I can't use 3 chip simms in my computer, and when I replaced them, the problem vanished, forever. ",2 "Rawlins has been listening to the Devil God ItSelf appeared to me and spoke to me, saying ""Rawlins has been listening to a deamon, and has been taken in by its satanic words!"" Now, how we tell which divine inspiration comes from the One True God and which comes from a satanic trickster? ",19 "Replacement for Program Manager and File Manager? Hi there, Could someone please suggest one of the better _shareware_ replacements for Win3.1's Program Manager and File Manager? And which ftp site are they located at? Thanks in advance for e-mail response. yuan@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu :) ",2 "FORTRAN library for MS-Windows Hi! I will like to know if there is a FORTRAN library for MS-Windows v3+ out there. I have several lots of source code written by past A/Ps in MS-FORTRAN, and recently have needed to port them to MS-Windows... I would like to avoid a major code-rewrite if possible - maybe a WINDOWS library is all I need? Please help - reply by E-mail to: traversmorgan@swell.actrix.gen.nz -- Guan Lye Chua c/- Travers Morgan (NZ) Ltd, P O Box 11-525, Wellington, NZ. Tel.: +64 4 471 0303 Fax.: +64 4 471 0353 ",2 "Re: Boston C of C Aside to the moderator: In article Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry) writes: > I won't quote any of it, but there are several errors in the article. Not things that are just differences of opinion, but the writer just plain has his facts confused. For example, Kip McKean was *asked* to come to the Lexington church by the leaders there. He brought no team. He actually had been in Charleston, IL up to that point. He had many friends, even leaders in Gainesville, telling him not to go, because people in the Northeast weren't ""open"" and he'd be wasting his time and talents. Really!! (This fact was a kind of ""inside joke"" at one point after the church in Boston took off so well... Not open, indeed!) ;-) I could take it on point by point, but I am not in a position to know one way or the other about some things in the article. I just wanted to point out that it contains misinformation. Mark -- Mark Wuest | *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!! mdw@violin.hr.att.com (Sun Mailtool Ok) | mdw@trumpet.hr.att.com (NeXT Mail) | ",15 "Re: Temper tantrums from the 1960's In article <1993Apr17.013559.17391@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM writes: >>I see you are a total ignorant asshole as well. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It's the sign of a small mind to use filthy >language when he can't articulate his point. Oh, no, not in this case. I've noticed that you conveniently edited out your stupid comment that the PRC stands for Cambodia. When we're arguing the Vietnam war and about Cambodia, and you toss in a boner like that (along with your other boners), you are an ignorant asshole. Oh, and even the Vietnamese agree that they did far more damage to Cambodia than we ever did. -- There are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of environmental disaster. Weird, eh? These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...) ",18 "Re: Bernie Nicholls - What a man! from Matthew Rush: >but he's starting to push it over the edge IMHO. Of course, >Holik's chop to Barrasso's neck wasn't too sportsmanlike either. >It seems that he was following the ""The only way to beat the >Penguins is to injure them"" philosophy. It's pretty obvious that Holik's hitting Barrasso was an accident. He was even apologizing for it immediately before the Penguins all jumped on him. Ralph ",10 "Re: WC 93: Results, April 18 Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) writes: > Podein is an interesting case...because he was eligible to > play in Cape Breton in the AHL playoffs like Kovalev, Zubov, > and Andersson...obviously Sather and Pocklington are not > the total scrooges everyone makes them out to be...certainly > in this case they've massively outclassed Paramount and the > New York Rangers. What is the policy regarding players and the minor league playoffs versus WC? I know that the Rangers are holding back Kovalev, Zubov, and Andersson for Binghamton, but I also know that the Whalers wanted Michael Nylander to play for Springfield, while Nylander wanted to play for Sweden. The Whalers allowed the NHL to decide, and the NHL chose the WCs. How does this differ from the Rangers and Oilers? Did the Whalers have to go through the league, or could they have forced Nylander to play in Springfield? -SG ",10 "Re: (Q) SCSI&IDE (i.e. 2 or more hard drives) In article <1993Apr19.220704.18518@news.cs.brandeis.edu> luoma@binah.cc.brandeis. edu writes: >Has anyone (successfully) put both SCSI and IDE hard drives >on the same system? I would like to know as well, since I just bought a 200MB Seagate IDE drive and want to add it to my computer (a four-year-old Gateway 386/20), which currently has an 80MB Seagate SCSI drive. The SCSI controller is such that the docs told me not to specify it in the CMOS setup, i.e. both hard drive settings are listed as ""Not installed,"" and apparently the SCSI controller works its wonders. I wondering if this is a problem. Also, I remember how, when I helped my cousin install his second IDE drive, we had to define a master/slave relationship for them; do I need to do something similar here? >I am particularly interested in having the SCSI as the _boot_ drive. Same here. Any help would be appreciated, since I intend to install this drive ASAP; I'd like to know what to do (and what not to do) before I start. Thanks! -- ----------------------- William Barnes SURAnet Operations wbarnes@sura.net (301) 982-4600 voice (301) 982-4605 fax Disclaimer: I don't speak for SURAnet and they don't speak for me. ",3 "Re: Catholic Right & Pat Robertson In <93105.093812KEVXU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes: >Rocco L. Martino, a Philadelphia business >executive wrote: ""Separation of church and state is a false premise >that must finally be cast aside and replaced by the true meaning of >our constitution."" blechhhh. Gimme that ole' time Inquisition ... >Oh yes, the organization's ""national ecclesisatical advisor"" is >Catholic politician Cardinal John J. O'Connor of New York. It figures, doesn't it? -- Michael L. Siemon We must know the truth, and we must mls@ulysses.att.com love the truth we know, and we must - or - act according to the measure of our love. mls@panix.com -- Thomas Merton ",19 "Re: leaking memory resources in 3.1 In article <1993Apr30.180317.5618@seas.gwu.edu> louray@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Panayiotakis) writes: >In article richardf@teal.csn.org (IrieMon) writes: > >>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) writes: >>: I am running Win 3.1 with NDW 2.2 on a 486sx with 8 meg of memory and a >>: 6 meg perm swap file and am getting exceedingly frustrated that my >>: applications are not giving back system resources when I close them. >>: >>I've noticed this also. The way it was explained to me is that Windows >>does not clear the upper memory blocks after a program is done. Anyone >>out there know if this is why? >> > >There was a post about something similar a while back. It seems windows >does *not* take it upon itself to free up any sys. resources an >applllication is using when that application is done. That job is left >entirely to the application. that is, the application has to clean up >after itself when it quits. > >Anyone out there know if there is a utility for windows which will >clean up sys. resources when an application quits (mother.zip???). > >peace, >Mickey It could also be that your shell is hogging the resources. For example, open the apps with data files that cause resulting low system resources with ndw 2.x as shell, then do the same with program manager, and see if it's the shell or the apps. Ted ",2 "Re: Geronimo Pena? In article <1993Apr20.013653.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, dhart@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: |> |> |> Hey...I've noticed that Luis Alicea is starting at 2nd for the Cardinals |> instead of Geronimo Pena. Is Pena hurt, or was he just benched for poor |> performance? Anyone know? After a quick start, Pena has been stuck in a rut. Torre gave Alicea the start to try to get Pena out of whatever funk he is in. It has worked in the past. Bob -- _ ____|____====___H___________________====_====_====_ |_______| [[[[ ####### ###### | Bob Netherton ______| [][] |____ """""" Missouri Pacific | Sun Microsystems |o ____| MP |__| \___________________________/\_________| Dallas, Tx |_| / |_5001_| \_| | | | | | | | | | | | |_| |_|=|====|======|===|===/\==================================|_| |_| [(o)=(o)=(o)] |____________________| [(o)=(o)=(o)] |_| ============================================================================== ] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ",9 "Re: Self-destructing copy protection on VHS tape? klp@doe.carleton.ca (Ka Lun Pang) writes: > > Hi folks, > > I borrowed a VHS tape from a friend and it has a warning in the begining sayi > that attempts to copy the tape will result in destroying the copy and the > original. I found this unbelievable as playing and recording are two differen > processes. However, I've never seen this tape being sold anywhere so I don't > want to take the chance even it's small. > > Anyone has experience in this kind of self-destructing video tapes? > > Thanks in advance. > > -- > Ka Lun Pang (a.k.a. Andy) - Lost between frequency and time on the unit circ > email: klp@doe.carleton.ca > DoD# 0687 To put it bluntly, they are full of it. Paying a tape is playing a tape. There is no difference whether the output goes to a second VCR or to a TV. (How the VCR or TV reacts to this signal is a different story - see messages pertaining to macrovision copy protection.) In order for the tape to self-destruct, it would have to have circuitry of its own within the tape case. The circuit would have to somehow magically determine what the output of the VCR is connected to. The circuit would then have to have an erasing head to actually do anything. It is a pretty lame scare tactic. (I've seen something similar on a BBS. When the SYSOP wanted to, he could have a message sent to the user's end saying that it is sending the code to format your HD.) victor@inqmind.bison.mb.ca The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607 ",12 "Re: Albert Sabin anthonyp@riscsm.scripps.edu (Anthony Pelletier) writes: >This stuff is absolute giberish. and >I would post the real information, but in my experience you guys are not >interested in facts. If you happen to be the exception to that rule and >really would like to know what is known about the ""RNA world"" as we call it >and what we can re-create, I would be happy to provide some information and >references. I believe you will find me the exception to the rule. I don't claim to know everything. I would be very interested in your ""real information"". By the way, what was giberish? Was it the four letter alphabet?`` Jack ",19 "Re: REPOST: Accelerators/Translations In article <1993Apr22.162016.5923@telesoft.com>, trevor@telesoft.com (Trevor Bourget @ignite) writes: |> In sdennis@osf.org writes: |> |> >I posted this a while ago and didn't receive one reply, and now we |> >have another bug report on the same subject. Can anybody help me out? |> |> The problem is that Motif uses XGrabKey to implement menu accelerators, |> and these grabs are specific about which modifiers apply. Unfortunately, |> the specification for XGrabKey doesn't allow AnyModifier to be combined |> with other modifiers, which is exactly what would be desired in this case: |> ""Ctrl Anyq"". |> |> >In ORA Vol. 6, in the section on accelerators it says ""For information |> >on how to specify translation tables see Vol. 4..."", this is so you |> >know what to put for the XmNaccelerator resource. If you go to |> >Vol. 4 it says, ""Likewise, if a modifier is specified, there is |> >nothing to prohibit other modifiers from being present as well. For |> >example, the translation: |> > Shiftq: quit() |> >will take effect even if the Ctrl key is held down at the same time as |> >the Shift key (and the q key). |> |> This is true for accelerators and mnemonics, which are implemented using |> event handlers instead of grabs; it's not true for menu accelerators. If |> you're a Motif implementor, I'd suggest lobbying to get the Xlib semantics |> changed to support the feature I described above. Otherwise, change the |> documentation for menu accelerators to properly set the user's |> expectations, because menu accelerators are NOT the same thing as |> translations. |> |> >Is it possible to supply > 1 accelerator for a menu entry? |> |> If you mean ""menu accelerator"", no it's not possible. That's according to |> the definition of the XmNaccelerator resource in the XmLabel manual page. |> |> >Keep in mind when answering this question that when using Motif you |> >can't use XtInstallAccelerators(). |> |> I can't think of a reason why not. |> |> >How can you ensure that accelerators work the same independent of |> >case? What I want is Ctrl+O and Ctrl+o to both be accelerators on one |> >menu entry. I find this thread on motif accelerators absoultly amazing. If I were writing an interface to keyboard accelerators, I would have one resource called ""accelerators"" that took a translation table, period. I would also implement it so that programmer never has to do any work to get the accelerators installed. As soon as the end-user specified one, it would be active and automatically installed. To get multiple accelerators on a single menu item I'd do something like: *menuItem.accelerators: #override \n\ CtrlM: fire() \n\ ShiftL: fire() \n The accelerators would work exactly like translations and you would automatically see a ""Ctrl M"" show up in your menuItem object. Why in the world is the motif stuff so complicated with so many different special cases depending on what type of widget you're dealing with? There has to be some reason. Sorry for the political tone of this message... -- Tom LaStrange toml@boulder.ParcPlace.COM ",5 "Re: Albert Sabin In article <1993Apr15.225657.17804@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes: |> |> Since you have referred to the Messiah, I assume you are referring |> to the New Testament. Please detail your complaints or e-mail if |> you don't want to post. |> First-century Greek is well-known and |> well-understood. Have you considered Josephus, the Jewish Historian, |> who also wrote of Jesus? This can be now assumed kin of comic books. There are many authors and artists who write on, say, Superman. This does not make the fictional character worthy of blind sycophantic worship. Indeed, I too could write of Jesus. Does that make my writings sacred and me worthy of becoming a saint? Somehow I doubt it. |>In addition, the four gospel accounts |> are very much in harmony. |> About a week ago a number of discrepancies were posted to this newsgroup which noone, NOT ONE christian dared to take up. Perhaps the original poster could re-post them for Bill...? |> ========================================================== |> // Bill Rawlins // |> // ""I speak for myself only"" // |> ========================================================== -- +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) | | eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! | +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",19 "VW Jetta GLI help I am considering the purchse of a 1987 VW Jetta GLI with 87k miles on it. I recently found out that there are two versions of the GLI -- 8v and 16v. I know of three differences between the two cars that both carry the same name: the 16v version has 20 more horsepower, 4 wheel discs, and a standard sunroof. Oops, that's the difference between the GLI 16v and the regular GL !! So in addition to the engine, what other differences exist between the two models of the Jetta GLI ? More importantly, how can I tell which version this one is ? There are no badges that said ""16v"" so I am inclined to think that is the 8v version. Assuming this one (the one I looked at) is the 8v version, is there a valid reason to buy it instead of a comparably equipped GL which would cost less ? (Of course I would love to get the 16v version, but money talks.) Please EMail any responses. Thank you. Peter Volpe PV9955@albnyvms.bitnet ",7 "Re: No 32-bit box on Gateway dir In article <1993Apr16.153330.12087@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>, scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes: > While playing around with my Gateway 2000 local-bus machine last > night, it became apparent that Windows 3.1 didn't give the option > for 32-bit access for virtual memory. > > I am using a permanent swap file, and the disk drive is on the local > bus interface. > > Is this expected, or should I be investigating further why no 32-bit > option appears? > > Thanks for any help. > > -- > > Scott Linn > scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com ",3 "Re: Need advice with doctor-patient relationship problem I'd dump him. Rude is rude and it seems he enjoys belittling and humiliating you. But don't just dump him, write to him and tell him why you are firing him. If you can, think about sending a copy of your letter to whoever is in charge of the clinic where he works, if applicable, or maybe even to the AMA. Don't be vindictive in your letter, be truthful but VERY firm. But don't be a victim and just put up with it. Take control! It'll make you feel great! Nancy M. -- Nancy P. Milligan npm@netcom.com or npm@dale.cts.com ",13 "Re: Royals final run total... K. Mitchell Bose (kbos@carina.unm.edu) wrote: >The Toronto Blue Jays scored 329. Oh, fine, we'll ignore that one, coming from >1981 and all... That'll teach me not to qualify my statements... >In 1978, the Oakland A's scored a thundering 532 runs. Bleah! OK, something to shoot for. The Royals will score 531 runs or less this season (although they just decided to get McRae out of the leadoff spot :-( ) Of course, Valentine will throw this one back in my face when the Royals even manage to outscore another AL team. Sean -- Sean Sweda sweda@css.itd.umich.edu CSS/ITD Consultant P.Gammons idiotic quote of the week: GM/Manager Motor City Marauders ""There's no better home run park in Internet Baseball League baseball than Tiger Stadium"" 4/17 ",9 "Re: ""militia"" (incredibly long) In article jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John Lawrence Rutledge) writes: , cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: <-> In article , jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John Lawrence Rutledge) writes: <-> > But, do you knew how much organization is required to training a large <-> > group of poeple twice a year. Just to try to get the same people <-> > every year, provide a basic training to new people so they can <-> > be integrated into the force, and find a suitable location, it <-> > requires a continually standing committee of organizers. <-> <-> Again, my response is, ""so what?"" Is Mr. Rutledge arguing that since <-> the local and federal governments have abandoned their charter to support <-> such activity, and passed laws prohibiting private organizations from <-> doing so, that they have eliminated the basis for the RKBA? On the <-> contrary, to anyone who understands the game, they have strengthened it. < Mox nix, Mr. Rutledge. YOU are the only one here claiming that the <-> RKBA is dependent on the existence of a top-flight, well-regulated <-> militia. Why this is a false assumption has already been posted a <-> number of times. < arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes: >Los Angeles Times, Tuesday, April 13, 1993. P. A1. > ........ The problem if transffering US government files about Yigal Arens and some other similar persons does or does not violate a federal or a local American law seemed to belong to some local american law forum not to this forum. The readers of this forum seemed to be more interested in the contents of those files. So It will be nice if Yigal will tell us: 1. Why do American authorities consider Yigal Arens to be dangerous? 2. Why does the ADL have an interest in that person ? 3. If one does trust either the US government or the ADL what an additional information should he send them ? Gideon Ehrlich ",17 "Re: seizures ( infantile spasms ) In article <1993Apr20.184034.13779@dbased.nuo.dec.com>, dufault@lftfld.enet.dec.com (MD) writes: > > The reason I'm posting this article to this newsgroup is to: >1. gather any information about this disorder from anyone who might > have recently been *e*ffected by it ( from being associated with > it or actually having this disorder ) and >2. help me find out where I can access any medical literature associated > with seizures over the internet. I tried to e-mail you but it bounced back. Please e-mail me and I will give you someone's name who might be very helpful. You might also post your message to misc.kids. TAMARA sastls@mvs.sas.com ",13 "Harley-Davidson Mailing List -- an Email taste sensation! Anyone interesting in a mailing list for Harley-Davidson bikes, lifestyle, politics, H.O.G. and whatever over 310 members from 14 countries make it, may subscribe by sending a request to: harley-request@thinkage.on.ca or uunet.ca!thinkage!harley-request *** * Your request to join should have a signature or something giving your full * Email address. Do not RELY on the header ""From:"" field being useful to me. * * This is not an automated ""listserv"" facility. Do not expect instant * gratification. *** The list is a digest format scheduled for twice a day. Members of the harley list may obtain back-issues and subject-index listings, pictures, etc. via an Email archive server. Server access is restricted to list subscribers only. FTP access ""real soon"". Other motorcycle related lists i've heard of (not run by me), these addresses may or may not be current: 2-stroke: 2strokes-request@microunity.com Dirt: dirt-request@zygot.ati.com European: listserv@frigg.isc-br.com Racing: race-request@formula1.corp.sun.com digest-request@formula1.corp.sun.com Short Riding: short-request@smarmy.sun.com Wet Leather: listserv@frigg.isc-br.com --- It climbs the hills like a Matchless 'cause my Honda's built really light... -Brian Wilson (Honda Honda) ",8 "Re: TRUE ""GLOBE"", Who makes it? In article bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: >It has been known for quite a while that the earth is actually more pear >shaped than globular/spherical. Does anyone make a ""globe"" that is accurate >as to actual shape, landmass configuration/Long/Lat lines etc.? The variance from perfect sphericity in a model of the earth small enough to fit into your home would probably be imperceptible. Any globe you can buy will be close enough. -- ------------------------------------------------------- | Some things are too important not to give away | | to everybody else and have none left for yourself. | |------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----| ",14 "Re: Changing oil by self.rist, another dealer service scam... In article <1qk5m9$pbe@news.ysu.edu> ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes: >> >>I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally >>decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great ! >>I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light >>comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than >>the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles. >>Works for me, I must say. >> > >I did the same thing to my drain plug for the same reasons. I was wondering >how you filled your crankcase though as I welded my hood shut also out of fear >that somebody might steal my air-filter. Oh come on, Silly, all you have to do is cut a hole in your hood and put a tube there so you can get to the oil fill hole. What do you think all those big air intake things are for on those hot-rod cars? They're just for looks only...little does anyone know, they provide access to the oil-fill hole. Well, over where we live, we have problems with vandals stealing people's wheels. Those locking nuts didn't stop them. So to be safe and sure, I welded the lug nuts to my wheels together. It works, serious! I haven't had my wheels stolen yet! . ",7 "Celebrate Liberty! 1993 Announcing. . . Announcing. . . Announcing. . .Announcing. . . CELEBRATE LIBERTY! 1993 LIBERTARIAN PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION AND POLITICAL EXPO THE MARRIOTT HOTEL AND THE SALT PALACE SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH INCLUDES INFORMATION ON DELEGATE DEALS! (Back by Popular Demand!) The convention will be held at the Salt Palace Convention Center and the Marriott Hotel, Salt Lake City, Utah. The business sessions, Karl Hess Institute, and Political Expo are at the Salt Palace; breakfasts, parties, and banquet are at the Marriott Hotel. Marriott Hotel room rates are $79.00 night, plus 10.5% tax ($87.17 total). This rate is good for one to four persons room occupancy. Double is one or two beds; 3 or 4 people is 2 beds. You can make your reservations direct with the hotel (801-531-0800), or you can purchase your room through one of MGP's payment plans. MGP will provide assistance in matching roommates if requested. August 30, 31, Sept. 1: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Winning Elections, but Didn't Know Where to Ask! Three days of intensive campaign training conducted by Sal Guzzetta, a 25 year veteran of more than 200 campaigns. Students receive 990 pages of professional campaign manuals. Everything from strategy and targeting to opposition research, fundraising, and field operations. Price: $150 if purchased by May 1, 1993 $175 thereafter August 31 and Sept. 1: Platform, Bylaws, Credentials and National committee meetings. Shoot out in Salt Lake! PLEDGE versus Committee for a Libertarian Majority. Will the party's membership and platform definitions change? Is compromise possible? The Platform and Bylaws committees are responsible for making recommendations to the convention concerning changes in those documents. At this convention, the party will only consider deletions to the platform. The Convention Rules would have to be amended by a 2/3 vote to change this rule. The meetings are open to the public. There is no charge for attending. Sept. 2-5, 1993: Celebrate Liberty! Begins Political Expo Opens Sept. 2, 1993: 9 AM -- Credentials Committee report to the delegates. 10:30 -- Gala Opening Ceremony and Keynote Address by Russell Means. 1:00 -- After lunch break, convention business continues (see ""Standing Order of Business"" from the ""Convention Rules of the Libertarian Party"" at the end of this document. Karl Hess Institute of Libertarian Politics Begins, runs in tandem with the business sessions. Sept. 3, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Green Dragon Inn (morning and evening), with Karl Hess Institute and convention business in between. Sept. 4, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Freedom Rock '93, Karl Hess Institute, convention business. Sept. 5, 1993: Dawns Early Light, Convention Banquet, Karl Hess Institute, convention business, Joyful Noise. ACTIVITY DESCRIPTIONS: DAWNS EARLY LIGHT Three great convention breakfasts to start your days right, featuring science fiction author L. Neil Smith, psychiatrist and author Dr. Thomas Szasz, and South African Libertarian leader Frances Kendall. GREEN DRAGON INN ""Opening night"" party, named after the famous inn where Sam Adams and his crowd plotted trouble for the British over pints of ale and beer. Music, food, drink, and comedy. FREEDOM ROCK '93 Free downtown rock concert Friday night, with drum circle, comic Tim Slagle, Middle Eastern dancer, reggae, and local classic rock-n-roll bands. Will be widely publicized in the local area. Major outreach opportunity. BANQUET Vivaldi and Mozart, fine dining, in the elegant Marriott Grand Ballroom (black tie optional). Dancing follows. POLITICAL EXPO Exhibits and vendors. FREE admission. Event will be widely publicized in local area for maximum draw. Major Outreach opportunity. KARL HESS INSTITUTE OF LIBERTARIAN POLITICS Workshops, speakers, roundtable discussions in these areas: LIBERTY: NEXT GENERATION High school and college age Libertarians talk about what matters to them and the 20- something generation. AGENDA 2000 Considers key issues of the 1990s. Environment. Health Care. 21st Century Economics. Drug War. Second Amendment. Social Services. Foreign Policy. Crime & Violence. AIDS. THE GREAT DEBATE LP Strategy and tactics. Media. Ballot Access. Initiatives. Feminist Issues. Presidential Campaigns. LP Elected Officials. Grassroots. Early look at the 1996 presidential nomination. VALUES FOR THE 90s Community. Children. Abundance. Home Schooling. Religion and Liberty. Race. CAMPUS FOCUS Organizing. Academia. Blue Collar Youth. CONVENTION PACKAGE DESCRIPTIONS AND PRICES TOTAL EVENT: All activities, Aug. 30-Sept. 5, $400, including 3 day candidate training Full Celebration: All convention activities, Sept. 2-5, $300 Late Riser No breakfasts, everything else Sept. 2-5, $250 Thrift No breakfasts or banquet, $150 Issues Focus Karl Hess Institute, $125 Basic Convention packet, souvenirs, two Karl Hess Institute speakers Free Political Expo, Access to convention hall, Keynote Address, Joyful Noise, Freedom Rock '93, three free outreach speakers. PLEASE NOTE: -- PRICES INCREASE MAY 1, 1993 -- Special student prices are available to anyone under 25 years of age or who is enrolled in a college or university. -- Six and seven month payment plans are available which can include housing (if requested). -- To add the three day candidate training to any package below (except ""Total Event""), add $150 to the price. -- All prices are in U.S. dollars. -- Advertising is available in the convention program; exhibits and sponsorships are available for the Political Expo. Free Political Expo admission and MGP promotions will draw visitors from the surrounding community (one million people live within a 30 minute drive of the Expo). -- If your special interest group, organization, committee, or cause would like to schedule space for a presentation, contact us. -- MGP conducts a drawing each month and gives away FREE hotel nights. The sooner you register, the more chances you have to win. -- Roommate match service available upon request. OTHER EVENTS: ""Anti-Federalist Two"" MGP sponsored writing contest. June submission deadline. Contact MGP for prospectus. ""The Libertarian Games"" Friendly competition -- marksmanship, computer programming, chess, maybe more. Libertarians for Gay & Lesbian Concerns Business meeting, social night, sponsored by LGLC. ??? YOUR EVENT CAN BE LISTED HERE. Contact MGP for details. ATTENTION COLLEGE STUDENTS! Special discounts are available for college and high school students. We will work on casual housing opportunities for the ""Poverty Caucus"". College Libertarians will meet at Celebrate Liberty! and discuss the future of their movement on campuses. Contact MGP for more details. LIST OF SPEAKERS (as of March 14, 1993): Dean Ahmad Jim Hudler Sheldon Richman Karen Allard Jeff Hummel Kathleen Richman Rick Arnold Alexander Joseph Dan Rosenthal Dr. George Ayittey Frances Kendall Dr. Mary Ruwart Alan Boch Martin Luther King Dagny Sharon Richard Boddie Me-Me King Jane Shaw Gus Dizerega Henry Lamb Sandy Shaw Larry Dodge Amy Lassen L. Neil Smith Dr. Richard Ebeling Scott Lieberman Eric Sterling Don Ernsberger Dr. Nancy Lord Dr. Richard Stroup Bill Evers Russell Means Dr. Thomas Szasz Bonnie Flickenger Vince Miller Michael Tanner John Fund Maury Modine Sojourner Truth Doris Gordon David Nolan Yuri Tuvim Leon Hadar Randall O'Toole Bob Waldrop Patrick Henry James Ostrowski Terree Wasley Karl Hess Dirk Pearson Perry Willis Dr. Karl Hess Jr. Bob Poole Richard Winger Jacob Honrberger Carole Ann Rand Jarret Wollstein Brigham Young UPCOMING CONVENTION DEVELOPMENTS! On May 1st, prices increase for convention packages, candidate training, and exhibits/advertising: New prices for convention packages will be: Total Event: $450 Full Celebration: $350 Late Riser: $275 Thrift: $175 Issues Focus: $150 Basic: $30 Free: $0 These prices good through July 2, 1993. BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND! ANNOUNCING THE DELEGATE DEALS! Available May 1, 1993 I: Business Focus: All convention activities except Karl Hess Institute -- $275 II: Delegate Celebration, includes a complete set of Karl Hess Institute audio tapes instead of institute tickets -- $350 STANDING ORDER OF BUSINESS FOR A LIBERTARIAN PARTY CONVENTION 1. Call to order 2. Credentials Committee report 3. Adoption of agenda 4. Treasurer's report 5. Bylaws and Rules Committee report (Non-nominating conventions only) 6. Platform Committee report (At non-Presidential nominating conventions only deletions may be considered.) 7. Nomination of Party candidates for President and Vice-President (in appropriate years) 8. Election of Party Officers and at-large members of the National Committee 9. Election of Judicial Committee 10. Resolutions 11. Other business FOR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, GRUMBLES OR GRINS, SUGGESTIONS OR CRITICISM, AND TO REGISTER, CONTACT: MORNING GLORY PRODUCTIONS, INC. P.O. Box 526175 Salt Lake City, UT 84152 801.582.3318 E-mail: Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org Make Checks Payable to Morning Glory Productions, Inc. -- Don't blame me; I voted Libertarian. Disclaimer: I speak for myself, except as noted; Copyright 1993 Rich Thomson UUCP: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!rthomson Rich Thomson Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com IRC: _Rich_ PEXt Programmer ",19 "Good shareware paint and/or animation software for SGI? Does anyone know of any good shareware animation or paint software for an SGI machine? I've exhausted everyplace on the net I can find and still don't hava a nice piece of software. Thanks alot! Chad -- Knock, knock. Chad Cipiti Who's there? af774@cleveland.freenet.edu cipiti@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu It might be Heisenberg. chad@voxel.zool.ohiou.edu ",1 "Re: wife wants convertible If you hold off, there are a number of interesting convertibles coming to market in the next few years. The new LeBaron will be based on the Mitsubishi Galant, which should be an improvement over the current model. The new PL compact will have a convertible option (also a chrysler product) Kia, makers of the Ford Festiva is planning a larger convertible. -- Steve Morris, M.A. : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris Seattle University : Phone : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct) Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________ ",7 "Re: President Clinton's Email Address jagst18+@pitt.edu (Josh A Grossman) writes: >Somebody was kind enough to post the Prez's compuserve email address. >I was smart enough to write it down somehwere on some small scap of paper >I can not find. If you've got it please email it to me. CompuServe - ""75300.3115@CompuServe.com"" America On-Line - ""Clintonpz@AOL.com Both are accessible from the InterNet. When you send a not to Slick Willie, you will need to have you US Mail address on the note if you want a response. The White House does not reply by E-Mail. ",16 "Re: Krillean Photography stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes: : Living things maintain small electric fields to (1) enhance certain : chemical reactions, (2) promote communication of states with in a : cell, (3) communicate between cells (of which the nervous system is : a specialized example), and perhaps other uses. True. : These electric fields change with location and time in a large : organism. Also True. : Special photographic techniques such as applying external fields in : Kirillian photography interact with these fields or the resistances : caused by these fields to make interesting pictures. Not really. Kirlian photography is taking pictures of the corona discharge from objects (animate or inanimate). The fields applied to the objects are millions of times larger than any biologically created fields. If you want to record the biologically created electric fields, you've got to use low-noise, high-gain sensors typical of EEGs and EKGs. Kirlian photography is just phun-with-physics type stuff (right up there with soaking chunks of extra-fine steel wool in liquid oxygen then hitting them with a hammer -- which, like a Kirlean setup, is fun but possibly dangerous). : Perhaps such pictures will be diagonistic of disease problems in : organisms when better understood. Perhaps not. Probably not. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! Vote for ME -- I'm Rosemount Inc. |well-tapered, half-cocked, |ill-conceived and grante@aquarius.rosemount.com |TAX-DEFERRED! ",13 "Re: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days In article <1rrhlo$ajb@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: > In article <1993Apr30.101054.1@stsci.edu> hathaway@stsci.edu writes: >>In article <1rq3os$64i@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: >>> In article <3t75nhg@rpi.edu> strider@clotho.acm.rpi.edu (Greg Moore) writes: > |> | .. > > After all the space walking, they are going to re-boost the HST's > orbit. I think right now it's sitting at 180 miles up, > they would like 220. I don't know the exact orbit numbers. As Ben says - this re-boost idea is all news to us here. Do you know something we don't? Please supply a source - it would be nice for the schedulers of observations to know where the thing is going to be. These altitude numbers are also way off. My best source has: ""Minimum ST ALTITUDE in the PMDB is: 573 Kilometers"" ""Maximum ST ALTITUDE in the PMDB is: 603 Kilometers"" ""Delta ST ALTITUDE in the PMDB is: 3 Kilometers"" (PMDB is Proposal Management Data Base - used to schedule observations.) .. > In order to perform the re-boost of the HST, the OMS engines > will be fired for a long period. Now the shuttle is a heavy > thing. THe HST isn't light either. THe amount of OMS fuel > needed to fly both up is substantial. a small booster > carried up and used to boost HST on it's own will weigh significantly > less then the OMS fuel required to Boost both HST and SHUttle, > for a given orbital change. > Could you supply some calculations? You might check some recent postings that explained that 'a small booster' as suggested does not now exist, so comparing the mass of something that doesn't exist to the mass of the OMS fuel seems impossible. The contamination threat also remains. .. > > or the HST could even get placed into some sort of medium orbit. > The reason they want a high orbit, is less antenna pointing, > and longer drag life. > Longer drag life I can understand, but could you explain the antenna pointing? > Whatever it is, the problem in the tilt array is a big constraint > on HST ops. Tell me about it. Although the arrays can be (and are) moved perfectly well utilizing the second electronics box. Getting them both working is much desireable so as to reclaim redundancy. > > pat > I don't mean to jump on you - helpful suggestions are always welcome and we all know the more ideas the better, but I do want the true situation to be described clearly and correctly, lest some get confused. Regards, Wm. Hathaway ",14 "Re: The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Costly and Dangerous Mistake In article smith@minerva.harvard.edu (Steven Smith) writes: >dgannon@techbook.techbook.com (Dan Gannon) writes: >> THE U.S. HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM: A COSTLY AND DANGEROUS MISTAKE >> >> by Theodore J. O'Keefe >> [Holocaust revisionism] >> >> Theodore J. O'Keefe is an editor with the Institute for Historical >> Review. Educated at Harvard University . . . > >According to the 1990 Harvard Alumni Directory, Mr. O'Keefe failed to >graduate. You may decide for yourselves if he was indeed educated >anywhere. > >Steven Smith Is any education a prerequisite for employment at IHR ? Is it true that IHR really stands for Institution of Hysterical Reviews? Curious minds would like to know... Hap -- **************************************************************************************************** <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Omnia Extares >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **************************************************************************************************** ",17 "When does Fred McGriff of the Padres become a free agent? ",9 "Re: Dir Yassin (was Re: no-Free man propaganda machine: Freeman, with blood greetings from Israel) In article hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes: >In article <1993Apr13.141518.13900@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> hasan@McRCIM.McGill.EDU writes: > > CHECK MENAHEM BEGIN DAIRIES (published book) you'll find accounts of the > massacres there including Deir Yassen, > though with the numbers of massacred men, children and women are > greatly minimized. There is no known writing directly attributable to Menachem Begin which admits a massacre at Deir Yassin. Thus, Hasan is wrong. >As per request of Hasan: > >From _The Revolt_, by Menachem Begin, Dell Publishing, NY, 1977: > >[pp. 225-227] > > ""Apart from the military aspect, there is a moral aspect to the >story of Dir Yassin. At that village, whose name was publicized >throughout the world, both sides suffered heavy casualties. We had >four killed and nearly forty wounded. The number of casualties was >nearly forty percent of the total number of the attackers. The Arab >troops suffered casualties neraly three times as heavy. The fighting The word ""troops"" is unjustified. There has never been any evidence that there were any regular or irregular Arab forces in the village apart from the villagers defending themselves. According to the Haganah observer Pa'il, the Irgun/Lehi forces suffered a lot of casualties because they were incompetent soldiers. When they ran into trouble securing the central part of the village, a small group of Palmach soldiers came and took it without a single casualty. Begin's failure to even mention the Palmach is only one of the major inaccuracies (to use a kind word) in his account. Incidentally, ""three times as heavy"" may be correct, as there is serious evidence that the Arab loss was closer to 120 lives than to the oft-quoted 250 lives. However, note that Begin compares wounded Jews to dead Arabs. He fails to mention the number of wounded Arabs. Guess why. >was thus very severe. Yet the hostile propaganda, disseminated >throughout the world, deliberately ignored the fact that the civilian >population of Dir Yassin was actually given a warning by us before the >battle began. One of our tenders carrying a loud speaker was stationed >at the entrance to the village and it exhorted in Arabic all women, >children and aged to leave their houses and to take shelter on the >slopes of the hill. By giving this humane warning our fighters threw >away the element of complete surprise, and thus increased their own >risk in the ensuing battle. As is thoroughly established by many sources, the loudspeaker truck got stuck in a ditch too far from the village for it to provide a usueful warning. >A substantial number of the inhabitants >obeyed the warning and they were unhurt. A few did not leave their >stone houses - perhaps because of the confusion. The fire of the enemy >was murderous - to which the number of our casualties bears eloquent >testimony. Our men were compelled to fight for every house; to >overcome the enemy they used large numbers of hand grenades. And the >civilians who had disregarded our warnings suffered inevitable >casualties. > > ""The education which we gave our soldiers throughout the years of >revolt was based on the observance of the traditional laws of war. We >never broke them unless the enemy first did so and thus forced us, in >accordance with the accepted custom of war, to apply reprisals. I am >convinced, too, that our officers and men wished to avoid a single >unnecessary casualty in the Dir Yassin battle. But those who throw >stones of denunciation at the conquerors of Dir Yassin [1] would do >well not to don the cloak of hypocrisy [2]. > > ""In connection with the capture of Dir Yassin the Jewish Agency >found it necessary to send a letter of apology to Abdullah, whom Mr. >Ben Gurion, at a moment of great political emotion, called 'the wise >ruler who seeks the good of his people and this country.' The 'wise >ruler,' whose mercenary forces demolished Gush Etzion and flung the >bodies of its heroic defenders to birds of prey, replied with feudal >superciliousness. He rejected the apology and replied that the Jews >were all to blame and that he did not believe in the existence of >'dissidents.' Throughout the Arab world and the world at large a wave >of lying propaganda was let loose about 'Jewish attrocities.' > > ""The enemy propaganda was designed to besmirch our name. In the >result it helped us. Panic overwhelmed the Arabs of Eretz Israel. >Kolonia village, which had previously repulsed every attack of the >Haganah, was evacuated overnight and fell without further fighting. >Beit-Iksa was also evacuated. These two places overlooked the main >road; and their fall, together with the capture of Kastel by the >Haganah, made it possible to keep open the road to Jerusalem. In the >rest of the country, too, the Arabs began to flee in terror, even >before they clashed with Jewish forces. Not what happened at Dir >Yassin, but what was invented about Dir Yassin, helped to carve the >way to our decisive victories on the battlefield. The legend of Dir >Yassin helped us in particular in the saving of Tiberias and the >conquest of Haifa."" It is worth noting how Begin disputes the standard myth that the Palestinian Arabs fled as part of a calculated plan. >[1] (A footnote from _The Revolt_, pp.226-7.) ""To counteract the loss >of Dir yassin, a village of strategic importance, Arab headquarters at >Ramallah broadcast a crude atrocity story, alleging a massacre by >Irgun troops of women and children in the village. Certain Jewish >officials, fearing the Irgun men as political rivals, seized upon this >Arab gruel propaganda to smear the Irgun. An eminent Rabbi was induced >to reprimand the Irgun before he had time to sift the truth. Out of >evil, however, good came. This Arab propaganda spread a legend of >terror amongst Arabs and Arab troops, who were seized with panic at >the mention of Irgun soldiers. The legend was worth half a dozen >battalions to the forces of Israel. The `Dir Yassin Massacre' lie >is still propagated by Jew-haters all over the world."" Apparently 90% of Israeli historians are Jew-haters. >[2] In reference to denunciation of Dir Yassin by fellow Jews. I have previously posted quotations by Irgun participants that totally destroys Begin's whitewash. I have no particular desire to post it yet again. Brendan. (normally bdm@cs.anu.edu.au) ",17 "Re: Israeli Terrorism In article <1rd7eo$1a4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cy779@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Anas Omran) writes: > > In a previous article, tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) says: > >>In article <1993Apr24.203620.6531@Virginia.EDU> ab4z@Virginia.EDU (""Andi Beyer"") writes: >>>I think the Israeli press might be a tad bit biased in >>>reporting the events. I doubt the Propaganda machine of Goering >>>reported accurately on what was happening in Germany. It is >>>interesting that you are basing the truth on Israeli propaganda. >> >>Since one is also unlikely to get ""the truth"" from either Arab or >>Palestinian news outlets, where do we go to ""understand"", to learn? >>Is one form of propoganda more reliable than another? > > There are many neutral human rights organizations which always report > on the situation in the O.T. But, as most people used to see on TV, the > Israelis do not allow them to go deep there in the O.T. The Israelis > used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters. Anas, of course ! The YAHUD needed blood for the matza. After all, Passover *was* last month :-) Why don't you give us your National Geographic travelogue of your recent trip to ""Palestine"" ? Or are you too disappointed by what you saw ? :-) Josh backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL > So, this is another kind of terrorism committed by the Jews in Palestine. > They do not allow fair and neutral coverage of the situation in Palestine. > >>to determine that is to try and get beyond the writer's ""political >>agenda"", whether it is ""on"" or ""against"" our *side*. >> >>Tim > > Anas Omran > ",17 "Re: RE: re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article <9MAY93.20570058@vax.clarku.edu> rmohns@vax.clarku.edu writes: > >And I would hardly call a command that can delete a tree, and a move > >command, as a state of the art wiz-bang feature. They are damn necessary, > >I have often cursed not being able to have some kind of recursive delete > You are missing something. With the Windows File Manager, you _can_. MS But I don't want to have to run blasted Windows every time I want to delete a tree - it is absolutely ludicrous to load a hog like that just to delete some files! It would be like requiring a crane to change the tyre on a car. > wants people to buy Windows, not DOS. MS _knows_ DOS won't last forever. Only because its crap, which is noones fault but their own. > They want you to move to Windows 3.1, then later to Win32, and eventually to > Cairo. This way they give you a reason to. By deliberately crippling the product? Surely no... Oh, hold on, I guess you're right. That certainly stinks of MicroSoft marketing techniques. But the point still remains that a command to delete trees is not new technology, and is the kind of thing one would have expected to see long before Windows was even dreamt of. > Want good file handling? Use Fileman.exe. ""This product requires > Microsoft Windows."" > DOS is dead. Well Amen to that, but I wish it were a damn sight deader. For a dead product, its used an awful lot. And I suspect its going to carry on twitching for a long while yet, which isn't doing anyone any good. (And MicroSoft don't appear to have given up marketing DOS, so it is a very unusual form of death indeed). -- +---- Tim Walls --------------------------------- Sysop - Protocol BBS ----+ | Data/Fax: +44(0)403 272931 FidoNet 2:253/513 AmigaNet 39:133/1 | | twalls@ncc1701d.demon.co.uk | +---------------------------------------- PGP 2.2 Public key available ----+ ",2 "Re: Dodgers Take 2 Straight From Pirates In article <1qqob2INNqev@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes: >Davis and Strawberry attributed their turn arounds to Reggie Smith, >the Dodger batting coach who flew in from Florida three days >ago and gave them a pep talk and some instruction. Davis was >4-5 yesterday and had a couple more hits today. Strawberry >had two hits yesterday and I believe he had two more today, with >two home runs. Foolish me. And here I thought it had something to do with the fact that they were hitting against Wakefield, who had no ""kncukle"" to his ball that day, and Otto, who has no stuff. I wonder if Reggie gave the same pep talk and instruction to the rest of the lineup, who also suddenly came alive those two games. -- The Beastmaster -- Mark Singer mss@netcom.com ",9 "Model United Nations Just observed at the National Model United Nations here in NYC. Just one word on it : AWSOME. Peace, matt ",18 "Re: Watergate (was: Temper tantrums from the 1960's In article <1993Apr20.215539.346@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@us.oracle.com (Michae writes... >In article <1993Apr19.221331.26203@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM writes: >>In article , phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes... >>>In article <1993Apr17.013559.17391@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM writes: >>Well it really doesn't matter anyway because I really don't care what liars >>think of me anyway. What? Did I call you liars? You want proof? I'd be >>glad to provide it. I'm really sure which ones of you said these things >>since you all sound the same anyway. > >> One of you said ""Nixon didn't start ANY secret wars."" > >>This is a lie. Nixon had full knowledge of the invasions of Laos and >>Cambodia, and then lied to the American public about it. > >Note, however, that these were military actions but not wars. What a JOKE! You can't actually believe what you just said. Can you? We bombed and invaded these countries. Notice the definition of war (from the American Heritage Dictionary): 1) A state or period of armed conflict between nations or states. This qualifies the invasions of Cambodia and Laos as wars. > >> One of you said ""Nixon didn't use the office of the presidency >> for personal gain."" > >>This is a lie. The Senate committee issued an indictment that listed >>Nixon's crimes. The relevant ones were: >>1) Violating his oath of office. >>2) ABUSING HIS PRESIDENTIAL POWERS > >Excuse me, but neither of these refer to personal gain. Then let me explain this to you REALLY slowly. Why did he abuse the powers of his position? Could it have been to gain personal political power? Naw, that would be too obvious. > >> So now, you're BIG thing that you have been flogging me with >>is that I mistook PRC for People's Republic of Cambodia. Since I knew >>that Cambodia was socialist at the time, and since your comment was >>right in middle of a conversation about Cambodia, I made the wrong >>assumption that we were talking about the same thing. > >Ah, but Garrett, anyone who has to make assumptions about the meaning >of the initials PRC in a discussion about Asia is breathtakingly >ignorant. And anyone who can only call names because his position is defensless is breathtakingly ignorant and desperate. I noticed that you edited out the other points were I proved you and Phil to be completely wrong. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""Death to all modifiers, he declared one day, and out of Garrett Johnson every letter that passed through his hands went every Garrett@Ingres.com adverb and adjective. The next day he made war on articles. The following day he blacked out everything in the letters but ""a"", ""an"", and ""the"". - Joseph Heller's Catch-22 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",18 "Re: A Little Too Satanic Jon Livesey writes: >So why do I read in the papers that the Qumram texts had ""different >versions"" of some OT texts. Did I misunderstand? Reading newspapers to learn about this kind of stuff is not the best idea in the world. Newspaper reporters are notoriously ignorant on the subject of religion, and are prone to exaggeration in the interests of having a ""real"" story (that is, a bigger headline). Let's back up to 1935. At this point, we have the Masoretic text, the various targums (translations/commentaries in aramaic, etc.), and the Septuagint, the ancient greek translation. The Masoretic text is the standard Jewish text and essentially does not vary. In some places it has obvious corruptions, all of which are copied faithfully from copy to copy. These passages in the past were interpreted by reference to the targums and to the Septuagint. Now, the septuagint differs from the masoretic text in two particulars: first, it includes additional texts, and second, in some passages there are variant readings from the masoretic text (in addition to ""fixing""/predating the various corrupted passages). It must be emphasized that, to the best of my knowledge, these variations are only signifcant to bible scholars, and have little theological import. The dead sea scroll materials add to this an ancient *copy* of almost all of Isaiah and fragments of various sizes of almost all other OT books. There is also an abundance of other material, but as far as I know, there is no sign there of any hebrew antecdent to the apocrypha (the extra texts in the septuagint). As far as analysis has proceeded, there are also variations between the DSS texts and the masoretic versions. These tend to reflect the septuagint, where the latter isn't obviously in error. Again, though, the differences (thus far) are not significant theologically. There is this big expectation that there are great theological surprises lurking in the material, but so far this hasn't happened. The DSS *are* important because there is almost no textual tradition in the OT, unlike for the NT. -- C. Wingate + ""The peace of God, it is no peace, + but strife closed in the sod. mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing: tove!mangoe + the marv'lous peace of God."" ",0 "Re: CENTRIS 610 VIDEO PROBLEM - I > Has anyone NOT had these problems in the given configurations? (that would > help eliminate design flaw as the explanation) > David, I had the same video problem and it went away when I replaced the VRAM SIMMs. This doesn't mean that there isn't SOME kind of desgin flaw, only that the problem can be overcome with different SIMMs. ",4 "Re: Israeli Terrorism In a previous article, tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) says: >In article <1993Apr24.203620.6531@Virginia.EDU> ab4z@Virginia.EDU (""Andi Beyer"") writes: >>I think the Israeli press might be a tad bit biased in >>reporting the events. I doubt the Propaganda machine of Goering >>reported accurately on what was happening in Germany. It is >>interesting that you are basing the truth on Israeli propaganda. > >Since one is also unlikely to get ""the truth"" from either Arab or >Palestinian news outlets, where do we go to ""understand"", to learn? >Is one form of propoganda more reliable than another? There are many neutral human rights organizations which always report on the situation in the O.T. But, as most people used to see on TV, the Israelis do not allow them to go deep there in the O.T. The Israelis used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters. So, this is another kind of terrorism committed by the Jews in Palestine. They do not allow fair and neutral coverage of the situation in Palestine. >to determine that is to try and get beyond the writer's ""political >agenda"", whether it is ""on"" or ""against"" our *side*. > >Tim Anas Omran ",17 "Re: Gps launch Next GPS launch is scheduled for June 24th. * Origin: No. VA Astronomy Club 703-256-4777 (1:109/118) ",14 "ESPN I don't know if anyone has posted a message like this yet, but i'm getting really sick of espn showing the last minute of a hockey game, in which the score was just tied, and then cutting out and saying ""sorry we can't show you this we have to show baseball tonight"" (not even a game. a friggin HIGHLIGHT show). gee, sure would have been nice to see the isles/caps in overtime. I live in Pittsburgh (yes i'm a pens fan) where hockey gets a lot of coverage. i can only imagine how a caps fan residing in Texas must feel. ",10 "Re: HBP? BB? BIG-CAT? In article <9460@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes: > >Of course, this is *not* the same as claiming (as some do) that Galarraga's >inability to defer gratification isn't hurting his team because he ""isn't >paid to walk"" or ""is an RBI guy"" or whatever. Alright, that's enough. I've suffered with all kinds of insults (as typical for the net), but give me a break. Galarraga is currently batting over .400 and you guys are complaining that he isn't drawing enough walks. What would he have to do to please you guys, bat 1.000? You can hardly claim that he is ""hurting his team"". If it happens that the pitchers start throwing him fewer good pitches and he starts making lots of outs (as someone speculated might happen), *THEN* I would agree with you that he isn't taking enough pitches. My comment that ""he isn't paid to walk"" doesn't mean that he should have a license to swing at bad pitches and make outs; it's more along the lines of: he's batting .400 and leading the league in RBI's so what bloody difference does it make if he isn't drawing a lot of walks? Sheesh. --Greg ",9 "->->->->* Jet Ski Forsale *<-<-<-<-<- For Sale 1989 Kawasaki TS (650) Tandum seating Color: White with Blue and Red. Jet Ski runs great and looks good. Ziemans Trailer with locking Utility Box. Color: Black Ziemans Trailer is less than a year old. Both have been garaged kept and well maintained. $4200.00 for both (To be sold as a set only) If interested Call Me at (408) 473-4159 leave message I will return your call ASAP. Thanks, Tim Ryan Standard Disclaimer Applies ",6 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr20.054839.14002@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >What, exactly, do you think the Jewish zelots at Masada did? They >poisoned themselves and their families, when they were sure there >was on other choice but submission or death. Why are you holding >the ""Branch Davidian"" to a higher standard than the Jews? Although I can understand why you think the comparison might be valid, I would have to disagree. The Jews who found themselves alone against Rome on Masada faced a future which was infinitely bleaker than the one faced by the Branch Davidians. The latter, in reality, would likely have been charged with weapons violations and other sorts of crimes. Most of them would have likely gotten off entirely. It is highly unlikely that anyone other than Vernon Howell would have been been imprisoned for very long. But regardless, most of the people, and certainly all of the children, would have been allowed to leave, and if they so chose, join another cult. The Jews on Masada well understood their likely fate from what had already happened. Had they surrendered, the men of fighting age would probably have been put to death, perhaps crucified. The women and children would have been enslaved. None of them would have been likely to practice their religion again. I understand that Howell/Koresh and perhaps others will argue that the fate of the Branch Davidians was ""equally"" onerous and that they were fighting for religious freedom. I guest that's a judgement call... -- ________________________________________ Jack F. Love | Opinions expressed are mine alone. | (Unless you happen to agree.) ",18 "NHL Summary parse results for games played Sun, April 4, 1993 NY Rangers 3 1 0--4 Washington 0 0 0--0 First period 1, NY Rangers, Graves 33 (Turcotte, Lowe) 9:13. 2, NY Rangers, Gartner 44 (Messier) 11:21. 3, NY Rangers, Olczyk 21 (Messier, Amonte) 14:57. Second period 4, NY Rangers, Beukeboom 2 (unassisted) 3:30. Third period No scoring. NY Rangers: 4 Power play: 4-0 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Amonte 0 1 1 Beukeboom 1 0 1 Gartner 1 0 1 Graves 1 0 1 Lowe 0 1 1 Messier 0 2 2 Olczyk 1 0 1 Turcotte 0 1 1 Washington: 0 Power play: 3-0 No scoring ----------------------------------------- Boston 0 2 1--3 Buffalo 0 0 0--0 First period No scoring. Second period 1, Boston, Leach 24 (Wesley, Oates) pp, 1:03. 2, Boston, Oates 44 (Douris, Poulin) 9:00. Third period 3, Boston, Douris 4 (Bourque) sh, 0:55. Boston: 3 Power play: 5-1 Special goals: pp: 1 sh: 1 Total: 2 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Bourque 0 1 1 Douris 1 1 2 Leach 1 0 1 Oates 1 1 2 Poulin 0 1 1 Wesley 0 1 1 Buffalo: 0 Power play: 6-0 No scoring ----------------------------------------- Pittsburgh 1 3 1--5 New Jersey 0 1 1--2 First period 1, Pittsburgh, Francis 23 (Lemieux, Tocchet) pp, 13:25. Second period 2, Pittsburgh, Murphy 21 (Francis, Mullen) sh, 0:38. 3, Pittsburgh, Francis 24 (Tocchet, Lemieux) pp, 7:14. 4, Pittsburgh, Jagr 33 (Tocchet, Francis) pp, 15:22. 5, New Jersey, Zelepukin 17 (Driver, Lemieux) pp, 19:07. Third period 6, New Jersey, MacLean 23 (Nicholls, Stevens) 6:45. 7, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 62 (Jagr) en, 19:51. Pittsburgh: 5 Power play: 9-3 Special goals: pp: 3 sh: 1 en: 1 Total: 5 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Francis 2 2 4 Jagr 1 1 2 Lemieux 1 2 3 Mullen 0 1 1 Murphy 1 0 1 Tocchet 0 3 3 New Jersey: 2 Power play: 9-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Driver 0 1 1 Lemieux 0 1 1 MacLean 1 0 1 Nicholls 0 1 1 Stevens 0 1 1 Zelepukin 1 0 1 ----------------------------------------- Toronto 0 0 0--0 Philadelphia 2 1 1--4 First period 1, Philadelphia, Dineen 31 (Beranek, Hawgood) 8:10. 2, Philadelphia, McGill 3 (Lindros, Recchi) 19:55. Second period 3, Philadelphia, Lindros 38 (Recchi, Galley) 7:55. Third period 4, Philadelphia, Dineen 32 (Hawgood, Galley) pp, 18:39. Philadelphia: 4 Power play: 4-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Beranek 0 1 1 Dineen 2 0 2 Galley 0 2 2 Hawgood 0 2 2 Lindros 1 1 2 McGill 1 0 1 Recchi 0 2 2 Toronto: 0 Power play: 6-0 No scoring ----------------------------------------- Vancouver 0 2 1--3 Ottawa 0 0 0--0 First period No scoring. Second period 1, Vancouver, Plavsic 6 (Craven) 13:05. 2, Vancouver, Momesso 17 (Nedved, Plavsic) pp, 15:52. Third period 3, Vancouver, Bure 57 (unassisted) 13:27. Vancouver: 3 Power play: 4-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Bure 1 0 1 Craven 0 1 1 Momesso 1 0 1 Nedved 0 1 1 Plavsic 1 1 2 Ottawa: 0 Power play: 5-0 No scoring ----------------------------------------- St. Louis 2 0 2--4 Chicago 4 0 1--5 First period 1, Chicago, Sutter 18 (Murphy, Chelios) pp, 1:08. 2, St. Louis, Janney 20 (Shanahan, J.Brown) pp, 6:49. 3, Chicago, Roenick 44 (Chelios, Smith) pp, 8:20. 4, Chicago, Roenick 45 (Sutter, Chelios) pp, 13:14. 5, Chicago, Graham 19 (Gilbert, Ruuttu) 13:42. 6, St. Louis, Janney 21 (Shanahan, Crossman) 19:38. Second period No scoring. Third period 7, Chicago, Murphy 5 (Chelios, Belfour) 0:20. 8, St. Louis, Miller 21 (Hull, Janney) pp, 7:04. 9, St. Louis, Janney 22 (Miller, Shanahan) 19:32. Chicago: 5 Power play: 8-3 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Belfour 0 1 1 Chelios 0 4 4 Gilbert 0 1 1 Graham 1 0 1 Murphy 1 1 2 Roenick 2 0 2 Ruuttu 0 1 1 Smith 0 1 1 Sutter 1 1 2 St. Louis: 4 Power play: 4-2 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Brown J 0 1 1 Crossman 0 1 1 Hull 0 1 1 Janney 3 1 4 Miller 1 1 2 Shanahan 0 3 3 ----------------------------------------- Calgary 1 2 1--4 San Jose 1 0 2--3 First period 1, Calgary, Otto 19 (Yawney, Ashton) pp, 5:29. 2, San Jose, Odgers 10 (Pederson, Wilkinson) 18:33. Second period 3, Calgary, Nieuwendyk 34 (Johansson, Reese) 2:03. 4, Calgary, Reichel 35 (Skrudland, Berube) 12:22. Third period 5, Calgary, Ashton 7 (Otto, Fleury) 1:30. 6, San Jose, Pederson 9 (Odgers, Evason) 2:24. 7, San Jose, Odgers 11 (Gaudreau, Evason) pp, 19:30. Calgary: 4 Power play: 5-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Ashton 1 1 2 Berube 0 1 1 Fleury 0 1 1 Johansson 0 1 1 Nieuwendyk 1 0 1 Otto 1 1 2 Reese 0 1 1 Reichel 1 0 1 Skrudland 0 1 1 Yawney 0 1 1 San Jose: 3 Power play: 5-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Evason 0 2 2 Gaudreau 0 1 1 Odgers 2 1 3 Pederson 1 1 2 Wilkinson 0 1 1 ----------------------------------------- ",10 "anybody have patched version of xroach for tvtwm??? i read about the code you can put in to most applications so that the virtual desktop stuff in tvtwm doesn't confuse them (or is the application confusing the virtual-ness? [chicken & the egg?] but wanted to see if it has been applied to a version of xroach i never could quite get ssetroot to work either? any suggestions. luckily xv -root -quit does the trick for the most part also, i'ld be quite interested in hearing more about the icon region for each virtual window under tvtwm that i read a thread on last week here thanx, fish -- John R. Vanderpool INTERNET: fish@eosdata.gsfc.nasa.gov NASA/GSFC/HSTX VOX: 301-513-1683 ""So you run, and you run, to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking, racing around to come up behind you again."" -rw/dg ",5 "Any Interest in a Mailing List on Epilepsy and Seizures? I have seen a fair bit of traffic recently concerning Epilepsy and seizures. I am also interested in this subject -- I have a son with Epilepsy and I am very active with the local association. I posted a message like this a few months ago and received no replies, but here it is again. Is anyone interested in participating in a mailing list on Epilepsy and seizures? This would allow us to hold discussions and share information via electronic mail. I already run a Listserver for two other groups, so the mechanics would be easy. If you are interested, mail me a note. If I get enough replies, I will make it happen and provide you with the details. BTW, I have also started a database on Epilepsy. This is part of my research on natural language question answering systems. Users of this service are able to ask questions about Epilepsy and the program searches the database and retrieves its best response. The technology works by comparing your question against a set of questions that have been seen before. All new questions that are not answered are recorded and used to improve the system. This database is still small and sparse, but we are adding new information. To try it out, do the following telnet debra.dgbt.doc.ca login: chat Then select the Epilepsy item from the menu of databases. -- Andrew Patrick, Ph.D. Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, CANADA andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.CA For a good time, run ""telnet debra.dgbt.doc.ca"" and login as ""chat"". ",13 "your opinion of the LaserWriter Select 310? This model is one of the two low-cost laser printers that Apple just introduced. I'm thinking of getting one to use at home. Have any of you had any experience with this printer? Does it have Level-2 PostScript? If you've bought one, are you happy with it? -- John Cavallino | EMail: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu University of Chicago Hospitals | John_Cavallino@uchfm.bsd.uchicago.edu Office of Facilities Management | USMail: 5841 S. Maryland Ave, MC 0953 B0 f++ w c+ g++ k+ s++ e h- p | Chicago, IL 60637 ",4 "Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War In article <930414.121019.7E4.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew writes: > rush@leland.Stanford.EDU (Voelkerding) writes: >>In article <1993Apr12.143834.26803@seachg.com> chrisb@seachg.com (Chris >>Blask) writes: >>>Add to this the outrageous cost of putting someone to death (special cell >>>block, years of court costs, extra guards...) and the benefits of the death >>>penalty entirely disappear. >> >> That's because of your earlier claim that the one innocent death >> overrides the benefit of all the others. Obviously it's tragic, but >> it is no argument for doing away with the death penalty. If we went >> to war and worried about accidentally killing civilians all of the time >> (because our determination of who the enemy really is is imperfect), then >> there is no way to win the war. > > Yes. Fortunately we have right-thinking folks like your good self in power, > and it was therefore deemed acceptable to slaughter tens or even hundreds of > thousands of Iraqis in order to liberate oil^H^H^HKuwait. We won the war, > hurrah hurrah! The number of civilian Iraqi deaths were way over-exaggerated and exploited for anti-war emotionalism by the liberal news media. The facts are that less Iraqis died in the Gulf War than did civilians in any other war of comparable size this century! This was due mostly to the short duration coupled with precise surgical bombing techniques which were technically possible only recently. The idea that ""hundreds of thousands"" of Iraqi citizens died is ludicrous. Not even ""hundreds of thousands"" of Iraqi soldiers died, and they were the ones being targeted! Or do you think that the US and its allies were specifically out to kill and maim Iraqi civilians? Either the smart bombs didn't hit their targets (and we know they did), or they were targeting civilian targets (!) which is hardly condusive to destroying Iraq's military potential. The military mission planners are not fools, they know they have to hit *military* targets to win a war. Hitting civilian targets does nothing but unite the people against you, not a laudable goal if one wants the people to rise up against their tyrant-dictator. > > OK, so some innocent people died. Yes, maybe the unarmed civilians fleeing > along that road didn't need to be bombed to bits. Perhaps that kid with half > his face burned off and the little girl with the mangled legs weren't > entirely guilty. But it's worth the death of a few innocents to save the > oil^H^H^Hlives of the Kuwaiti people, isn't it? After all, the Iraqis may > not have had a chance to vote for Saddam, but they showed their acceptance of > his regime by not assassinating him, right? All that surrendering and > fleeing along open roads was just a devious ploy. We were entirely within > our rights to bomb 'em just in case, without finding out if they were > soldiers. How about all the innocent people who died in blanket-bombing in WW2? I don't hear you bemoaning them! War is never an exact science, but with smart bombs, it's becoming more exact with a smaller percentage of civilian casualties. Sometimes mistakes are made; targets are misidentified; innocents die. That's war the way it really is. But the alternative, to allow tyrannical dictators to treat the earth like it's one big rummage sale, grabbing everything they can get is worse. Like Patrick Henry said some 217 years ago, ""I know not what course others may take -- but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"" War is always the price one must be willing to pay if one wishes to stay free. > >> The death penalty was conceived as a deterrent to crime, but the legal >> shenanigans that have been added (automatic appeals, lengthy court >> battles, etc.) have relegated that purpose to a very small part of what >> it should be. Hence the question is, do we instate the death penalty as >> it was meant to be, and see if that deters crime, or do we get rid of >> it entirely? > > Yes, let's reinstate the death penalty the way it ought to be. All that shit > about fair trials and a court of appeals just gets in the way of justice. > Let's give the police the absolute right to gun down the guilty, and save > ourselves the expense of all those lawyers. > > Think of the knock-on benefits, too. LA would never have had to spend so > much money cleaning up after riots and holding showcase trials if the cops > had been allowed to do their job properly. A quick bullet through the head > of Rodney King and another for the cameraman, and everyone would have been > saved a great deal of unnecessary paperwork and expense. > > After all, if the police decide a man's guilty, that ought to be enough. The > fact that the death penalty has been shown not to have any deterrent effect > over imprisonment, well, that's entirely irrelevant. > > > mathew > -- Mathew, your sarcasm is noted but you are completely off-base here. You come off sounding like a complete peace-nik idiot, although I feel sure that was not your intent. So the Iraqi war was wrong, eh? I'm sure that appeasement would have worked better than war, just like it did in WW2, eh? I guess we shouldn't have fought WW2 either -- just think of all those innocent German civilians killed in Dresden and Hamburg. How about all the poor French who died in the crossfire because we invaded the continent? We should have just let Hitler take over Europe, and you'd be speaking German instead of English right now. Tyrants like Hussein *have* to be stopped. His kind don't understand diplomacy; they only understand the point of a gun. My only regret is that Bush wimped out and didn't have the military roll into Baghdad, so now Hussein is still in power and the Iraqi people's sacrifice (not to mention the 357 Americans who died) was for naught. Liberating Kuwait was a good thing, but wiping Hussein off the map would've been better! And as for poor, poor Rodney King! Did you ever stop and think *why* the jury in the first trial brought back a verdict of ""not guilty""? Those who have been foaming at the mouth for the blood of those policemen certainly have looked no further than the video tape. But the jury looked at *all* the evidence, evidence which you and I have not seen. When one makes a judgment without the benefit of a trial where evidence can be presented on both sides, one has simply lowered himself to the level of vigilante justice, a state-of-mind which your sarcasm above seemingly spoke against, but instead tends to support in the case against the policemen. Law in this country is intended to protect the rights of the accused, whether they be criminals or cops. One is not found guilty if there is a reasonable doubt of one's guilt, and only the jury is in a position to assess the evidence and render a verdict. Anyone else is simply succumbing to verbal vigilantism. Regards, Jim B. ",0 "Re: Need phone number for Western Digital (ESDI problem) Western Digital 1-800-832-4778.....Sam -- Gosh..I think I just installed a virus..It was called MS DOS6... Don't copy that floppy..BURN IT...I just love Windows...CRASH... ",3 "Re: Best record ever in baseball In article <1psl0jINNam3@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu) writes: >Of all teams, I believe the Cubs have the best record ever in baseball. >Sometime way far back. 110+ and something. I think it was the 1954 Cleveland Indians with 111. ",9 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: > Not, of course, The Greatest Salesman in the World. That was > Jesus, wasn't it? No, J.R. ""Bob"" Dobbs. mathew ",0 "Re: Drinking and Riding >Norman Hamer (maven@eskimo.com) wrote: > What is a general rule of thumb for sobriety and cycling? A couple of hours > after you ""feel"" sober, or what? Should I just work with ""If I drink > tonight, I don't ride until tomorrow""? I generally find that after two or three decent hits of nitrous, my riding improves enormously. Drinking is silly, your breath smells, it costs lots of money and the pigs can detect it with their machines. NO2 works for me, try it. Nick (the like wow, um, far out, er, Biker) DoD 1069 Concise um errr.... M'like um, er Lud. ___ ___ ___ ___ {""_""} {""_""} {""_""} {""_""} Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large. ' ` ` ' ' ` ` ' Currently incarcerated at BNR, ___ ___ ___ ___ Maidenhead, The United Kingdom. |""_""| |""_""| |""_""| |""_""| npet@bnr.ca '86 BMW K100RS ""Kay"" ` ' ' ` .` ' ' ` Pres. PBWASOH(UK), BS 0002 . _ _ . _ __ . / ~ ~~\ | / ~~ \ |_______| [_______| _:_ |___| ",8 "VIPER Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper. I took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge, and had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket. Wierd dream, I wonder what it means.... Roy. ",7 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism In article <30147@ursa.bear.com>, halat@panther.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >In article <1r15rvINNh8p@ctron-news.ctron.com>, king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes: >> >> >>adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Andy Peters) writes: >> >>>> Macroevolution is >>>> a mixture of 15 percent science and 85 percent religion [guaranteed >>>> within three percent error :) ] >> > >To repeat what I had said in an earlier post: Evolution is >a theory. If you accept it as fact, then that is faith and >not much different from religion. If you accept it as the >theory it is, then there is 0% religion involved and it >can be quite useful in the realm of science. > >Simply put, evolution/creation when each is looked at >properly -- theory/assertion not fact/fiction -- is a >specific example of exactly what separates soft athiesm >and science from religion. > >-jim halat To repeat what I said in an earlier post: Evolution is theory and fact. If you accept the facts, then that is a display of reason and intelligence and much different from anachronistic religion. If you assess the theories of evolution objectively, then there can be 0% religion involved and evolution remains useful in the realm of science. Simply put, evolution/creation when each is looked at properly - theory/fact vs. assertion/fiction - is a specific example of exactly what separates reason and science from nonsense. Rich Fox, Anthro, Usouthdakota ",19 "Re: Wiretapping reality today David Sternlight writes: > A little perspective might be in order. I cannot believe you can make these claims given hard evidence of abuse. Do you ignore stories about survellience of Martin Luther King, have you blocked from your mind McCarthy's crusade in the 50's? > The number of court ordered wire taps is pretty low. And how many illegal wiretaps are performed? Funny, but I'll be that the FBI doesn't keep statistics on these! ""confidential informer"" = illegal wiretap /-----------------------------------\ | Karl L. Barrus | | elee9sf@menudo.uh.edu | <- preferred address | barrus@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXTMail) | \-----------------------------------/ -- /-----------------------------------\ | Karl L. Barrus | | elee9sf@menudo.uh.edu | <- preferred address | barrus@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXTMail) | \-----------------------------------/ ",11 "Re: When are two people married in God's e In article 28727@athos.rutgers.edu, 62johnson@cua.edu (Yusef Al-Tariq) writes: >Who's law is it that a wedding has to happen in a church? the only reqirement >is that you and the bride agreee to marry each other. How also can you say "" >""christian wedding"" when the proces of marriage is nt really discussed in the >bible. why mus t a person get a civil marriage also? The only standards i >look to are those imposed upon me by god... not of society. If you want to live with someone, you can. If you don't want to have a civil marriage, don't. If you don't want to have a wedding in a church, don't. If you want to call that a marriage, go right ahead. I hope that the young people that are around you, don't follow your example. |-------------------| | Gary Chin | | Staff Engineer | | Sun Microsystems | | Mt. View, CA | | gchin@Eng.Sun.Com | |-------------------| [If the original message claims that marriage is not discussed in the Bible, I have to disagree. Various aspects of marriage are discussed in some of Paul's letters, Ephesians 5 sees marriage as a symbol of God's relationship with the church. If it means specifically that the marriage ceremony isn't described, then that seems to be true. But I think what most people mean by Christian marriage is not so much that it takes place in a church as that the parties undertake the various commitments to each other that are associated with marriage in the Bible. --clh] ",15 "Re: health care reform In article custer@wrc.wrgrace.com (Linda Custer) writes: > >Also, I'm not sure that physician fees at the very, very highest levels >don't have to come down. (I'm not talking about the bulk of physicians >making good but not great salaries who have mega-loans from medical school >debts.) I'd also like to see some strong ethics with teeth for physicians I agree that some specialties have gotten way out of line. The main problem is the payment method for procedures rather than time distorts the system. I hope they will fix that. But I'm afraid, as usual, the local doc is going to take the brunt. People grouse about paying $50 to see their home doctor in his office, but don't mind paying $20,000 to have brain surgery. They think their local doc is cheating them but worship the feet of the neurosurgeon who saved their life. What they don't realize is that we need more local docs and fewer -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Atari Mono and VGA In article <19APR199322421085@oregon.uoregon.edu> arosborn@oregon.uoregon.edu (Alan Osborn) writes: >In article <1993Apr19.090707.3686@tdb.uu.se>, m88max@tdb.uu.se (Max Brante) writes... >>Have anybody succeded in converting a atari monomchrome monitor into a >>mono VGA monitor. If so please let me know exactly how you did and what >>graphics card you used. >I wish I could help! I posted a similar question about two weeks ago; >I got no response at all. I've asked locally at my friendly Atari store. >I was told that it should be possible, but that they had no idea how >it might be done. Nor did they particularly care to investigate. > >Please, if anyone has _any_ suggestions, post them! You might try asking on one of the comp.sys.ibm.* echos (the best one may be comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware). I say this because the conversion seems more geared toward a PC user wanting to use that monitor, than an Atari user who already can use the monitor (unless maybe they want to really go wild - converting the monitor to VGA, then using it as a VGA monitor with a Falcon :-) As for graphics cards, assuming that the Atari monitor can be modified/adapted to handle VGA signals, you should probably be able to use any VGA card (at least with a res around 640x400). I haven't tried this, but that would be my guess... Robert Anisko anisko@usdtsg.daytonoh.ncr.com ...you might want to price mono VGA monitors anyways - it may be cheaper to go that route than to do the conversion; besides, with the Falcon and beyond, VGA/SVGA/multisync monitors will probably be the way to go... ",3 "Re: ""Conventional Proposales"": Israel & Palestinians The fact that Israel is already discussing with some Palestinians what the composition of the armed Palestinian Police Force in the territories will be during the transition phase indicates some real solid concessions and liberal thinking on the part of the Israeli side. -- Chris Metcalfe ",17 "Re: IDE vs SCSI In article <1993Apr17.204247.6741@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes: > In article wayne@amtower.spacecoast.orgX-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith writes: > > >> but I still want to know why it intrinsically better > >> (than IDE, on an ISA bus) when it comes to multi-tasking OS's when > >> managing data from a single SCSI hard drive. > > > >A SCSI controller that transfers data by DMA allows the cpu to request data > >from the hard drive and continue working while the controller gets the data > >and moves it to memory. > > IDE also uses DMA techniques. I believe floppy controller also uses DMA, > and most A/D boards also use DMA. DMA is no big deal, and has nothing to > do directly with SCSI. IDE does not do DMA. This is because it's like te PC AT hard disk interface. The controller moves a sector to some buffer memory on the controller card, then the CPU moves the data from the buffer to main memory where it's needed. If IDE doesn't work this way, then it's not compatible. Heck, if IDE used DMA, then you'd hear all kinds of complaints about ISA bus systems with more than 16M RAM not working with their IDE drives. 16M is the DMA addressing limit of the ISA bus, and if IDE did DMA there would be trouble. (BTW, there are DMA-enabling signals in the IDE cable spec, but the last report I heard was that they are never implemented, because it would require a different kind of IDE adapter and different drivers.) -- Richard Krehbiel richk@grebyn.com OS/2 2.0 will do for me until AmigaDOS for the 386 comes along... ",3 "Re: TIGERS In article <93104.100921RK0VSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET> Ryan Kearns writes: >I think that the Detroit Tigers are the greatest baseball organization of all >time. ... [shameless woofing deleted] On behalf of the rest of us Tiger fans out here, I appoligize for this shameless woofing. We try to keep it to a minimum, but we did WIN A GAME the other day, so sometimes it's hard to control. see: Phillies Fans :-) Michael ",9 "Screenreading programs for MS Windows: Hi, I use a PC with a screen access program (IBM Screen Reader) and a speech synthesizer. (Accent SA). I would like to find out about screen access programs for the windows platform. I heard that were a couple of them out now under beta testing, I would like to find out addresses/prices etc. Thanks, --Raman -- T. V. Raman Tel: (607)255-9202 R 272-3649 Office: 4116 Upson Hall, Department of Computer Science, Cornell University Ithaca NY 14853-6201 Res: 226 Bryant Avenue Ithaca NY 14850 ",2 "Re: service indicator of a BMW In article <1993Apr22.130721.4420@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes: |> Derek.... |> |> There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights |> will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe |> atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a |> used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know |> of no other tool.... anyone else? |> |> About changing oil every 15,000 miles.... thats ok.... on newer Audis, they |> only require it after every 12,000 miles (I am talking about an oil change) |> Just a query: do you drive your car VERY VERY carefully? Like no sudden |> acceleration etc? If yeah, then the 15,000 M oil change seems quite reasonable. |> But if you drive kinda fast... I'd get a bit up tight abot that 15,000 thingy |> |> (a point to note: just because the first light came on at 3k, doesn't mean |> all the others will come on every 3k too) |> |> ....Shaz.... Shaz, Hmm.. but the service indicators that I have works this way: There are 5 green,1 yellow, 1 red indicators. initially all green indicators will be on for few minutes when you start your car. The computer will actually ""sense"" how you drive your car and as time goes by the green indicators will start to go off one by one and then the yellow indicator will turn on and then the red indicator will go on. And you should get service when by the time green indicators are off. After service the mechanic(or you) will reset the service indicators and the computer starts counting again. So I expect to have a tool(or a procedure) to reset it so the green lights will come on and the yellow and red lights will go off. I wonder how people can do oil change themself without knowing how to reset the indicator. It's the first european car I have and changing oil at 15,000 miles is a surprise to me. and it's a big plus :-). But I wonder how that could happen since the oil lose its lubrication ability over time, I thought it's the oil and not the vehicle that determines how often we should change oil. Any BMW owner on the net? Response welcomed. PS. my initial question is ""how do you seset the service indicator of a BMW"" Derek ",7 "army in space Is anybody out there willing to discuss with me careers in the Army that deal with space? After I graduate, I will have a commitment to serve in the Army, and I would like to spend it in a space-related field. I saw a post a long time ago about the Air Force Space Command which made a fleeting reference to its Army counter-part. Any more info on that would be appreciated. I'm looking for things like: do I branch Intelligence, or Signal, or other? To whom do I voice my interest in space? What qualifications are necessary? Etc, etc. BTW, my major is computer science engineering. Please reply to ktj@reef.cis.ufl.edu Thanks for ANY info. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Whether they ever find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be = = considered an enemy planet. -- Jack Handy = ---ktj@reef.cis.ufl.edu---cirop59@elm.circa.ufl.edu---endeavour@circa.ufl.edu-- ",14 "Re: DX50 vs DX266 In article <1r92s5$mec@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ab245@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sam Latonia) writes: > > > > > Article #61214 (61317 is last): > >Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware > From: arnolm2@aix.rpi.edu (Matthew Richard Arnold) > Subject: DX50 vs DX266 > Date: Wed Apr 21 19:55:12 1993 > > > Would someone be willing to explain to me the 486DX 50MHz is not more > popular than it is? I would think it would be just as fast, if not > faster than the 486DX 66MHz for certian applications. Plus, a 50MHz > motherboard would seem better if you had any plans on upgrading the > chip in the future. I must be missing something, since everyone is > buying the DX2 66... Many adds don't even mention the DX 50. > > Thanks a lot, > -Matt > > End of File, Press RETURN to quit > > Yes its realy simple, no one makes a mother board that runs the > bus at more than 33MHZ....Sam Which bus??? I think there are several reasons :- 50MHz motherboards are harder to get right 50MHz need a fast L2 cache - 12-15ns is a good idea 50MHz needs to be slowed down to make a compliant VESA bus 66MHz DX2 chips are faster for a lot of things With a good, fast L2 cache a DX2/66 is going be be faster than a DX50... What do I have? A DX50 of course! > -- > Gosh..I think I just installed a virus..It was called MS DOS6... > Don't copy that floppy..BURN IT...I just love Windows...CRASH... Guy -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Dawson - Hoskyns Group Plc. guyd@hoskyns.co.uk Tel Hoskyns UK - 71 251 2128 guyd@austin.ibm.com Tel IBM Austin USA - 512 838 3377 ",3 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card In article Thomas Parsli writes: >I don't remember the figures EXACTLY, but there were about 3500 deaths in Texas >in 1991 that was caused by guns..... How about ""firearm related."" >This is more than those beeing killed in car-ACCIDENTS! Texas is unusual in this regard. It would be nice to reduce them both, though. As Texas doesn't appear to have an murder rate that much higher than the national average, I would expect it is a result of a much higher suicide rate. >*I* should not suffer because of others.... Be nice if you didn't have to suffer at all. >We all agree on this one, BUT we also live in a sociaty and therefor >we'll have to give up *SOME* of our 'freedom' (Note the ''). Here's where we run into a problem. I am perfectly willing to have government regulation on something which is likely to cause others harm. What we're discussing, though, is the extreme regulation of a large group in order to target a small group, and I don't think that's appropriate. >Do you have an insurance?? >Then you'll have to pay because of what others do... > >Do you buy anything?? >YOU are paying for those who return goods, steal or even those who gets a bonus... > >Do you live with other people?? >Then you 'can't' do ererything you'd want (burping/farting playing music LOUD) Does this, then, justify anything? At some point you have to draw a line (at least to my way of thinking) where the government must have something a little more substantial than a set of percentages with which to punish an individual. Where do *you* draw the line? Or is there one? >One state (don't remember which, Texas??) tried to impose a rule that you could >only buy ONE gun each MONTH. Think you all know what happened..... Virginia. It passed. >I respect the right to defend yourself, but that right should not inflict on >other people. Does it? >It seems like you all realize that you have a problem in America, the only >problem is that you won't take the car away from the drunk driver, you >hope to cure him first. Cute analogy. The U.S. doesn't treat drunk driving like a serious crime. However, we also don't confiscate cars of people who drink. We also don't confiscate *all* cars because some people drink and drive. It's the core of the legal system that in order to punish an individual (and I'd call property confiscation a punishment) you must have evidence against that individual. That is, it isn't enough to show that the majority of people convicted of murder are white in order to convict a particular white guy of murder. >Hope life comfirms to the standard of Winnie the Poh. Huh? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - ""I still remember the way you laughed, the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't love me anymore."" - ""Weird Al"" ",16 "Re: Overriding default WM Behaviour specify RamdomPlacement (or RandomPlace ? ) in your .tvtwmrc. This places the windows not-interactively in pseudo - random positions on your screens. ",5 "VB Decompiler? Subject says it all. Do any exist? Are they shareware? Where? Phil Trodwell *** This space ***| ""I'd be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle *** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not *** (cheap) ***| this radio!"" -Hunter S. Thompson ",2 "re:use of haldol and the elderly I'm a nursing student, and I would like to respond to #66966 on haldol and the elderly. Message-ID: <25APR199316225142@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu> Organization: Florida State University - School of Higher Thought News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 First, I'm sorry to hear that you have had to see your grandmother go through this. I know it has to have been tough. There are many things that can cause long term confusion in elderly adults. The change in environment can cause problems. Anesthetic agents can cause confusion because the body cannot clear the medicines out of the body as easily. In addition, medications and interactions between medications can cause confusion. As far as whether or not haldol can have long lasting effects even after the drug has been discontinued, I do not know. I have not _seen_ anything to that effect. However, I also had not been looking for that information. I can see what I can find... I can tell you that haldol is an antipsychotic drug, and, according to the Nursing93 Drug handbook, it is ""Especially useful for agitation associated with senile dementia"" (p. 400). It also should not be discontinued abruptly. It did not say anything about long lasting effects. Because so many things can cause confusion, it is hard for me to know what else was going on at the time; if I had more history, i might be able to answer you better. If you want to send me e-mail with more information, I would be happy to try to help you piece together what might have happened. Elisa picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu ",13 "Re: UIMX - A Motif Application Generator Thanks for all the responses. I've made contact with the UK distributor :-) -- Paul Mahoney, X-Act Solutions Limited smail: 20 Shipley Lane, Cooden, Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex, TN39 3SR email: ptm@xact.demon.co.uk ... pmahoney@cix.compulink.co.uk phone: +44 424 846368 ",5 "Wanted sample source for editing controls Hi Everyone, I would like to get an example program(source code) to get started with a simple editor (similar to windows dialog editor, but lot simplified) . Can someone point me to a source such as a programming windows book, or example program comes with Windows SDK (from Microsoft or Borland). I would greatly appreciate it. All I want to do is to be able to place a edit control or combobox or a listbox on a window and be able to drag and resize. If anyone has written similar program and don't mind sharing code or ideas, I would appreciate it very much. Thnx in advance, Manu Das Please send me directly at manu@oas.olivetti.com ",2 "Does anybody have the schedule for games Sunday 25 Apr 93 Hello Hockey fans. Bonjour tout le monde! Well, in Salt Lake City this past Sunday, the local ABC station decided not to televise the hockey games. La directrous de programme est la tete de merde! Anyway, I have a satellite dish, and a few of my friends from hockey have invited themselves over to watch the games this coming Sunday (25 Apr), and I can not find correct game times. For the Calgary at LA game I have times showing everything from 11:00 AM MDT, to 5:00 PM MDT. I am not even sure what games are going to be played this coming Sunday, now that ABC has mucked up the schedule. I think I should be able to pull in three games (11:00 am, 2:00 pm, and 5:30 pm MDT) off the dish, but I am not sure. IF anybody has a schedule, pleas emial it to me. As you can see, I have to telent to get rec.sport.hockey, and it is sometimes difficult to get a link. Thanks in advance Merci d'avance P.S. Anglais ou francais d'accord. Roland Behunin behunin@oodis01.af.mil behunin@oodis01.hill.af.mil -- Roland ",10 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH - UPDATE In article larry@peak.psl.nmsu.edu wrote: > >>>>> On 21 Apr 93 11:28:57 -0800, yodicet@gtewd.mtv.gtegsc.com said: > > > Ah yes, I see a few liberal weenies have come out of the woodwork > > to defend the burning of the children. Probably drooled all over themselves > > while watching the TV coverage. > > > > Probably had a few like that in Nazi Germany, as well. > > > > Oh yeah, ATF/FBI now claims, according the the media, that there are > > a few survivors. The number seems to vary minute by minute. > > > > > > > yodicet> > yodicet> > yodicet> > > Hmm. You don't say.. > No, it appears he didn't. Well, I think he's on to something here. I mean the post he responded to (not) did pretty much speak for itself. -- Chip Switzer ""A witty saying proves nothing."" t-chipsw@microsoft.com -Voltaire ",16 "Re: ""Proper gun control?"" What is proper gun control? (was Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card) In article <15240077@iftccu.ca.boeing.com>, bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes: |> / iftccu:talk.politics.guns / hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) / 3:31 pm Apr 13, 1993 / |> |> >Some of the pro-gun posters in this group own no guns. The dread |> >""Terminator"", aka ""The Rifleman"", owned no firearms for several years |> >while posting in this group, as an example. There are others. |> |> Good point, Kirk. |> |> He's still around too. He's responded by email to a couple of my posts, |> and gosh darn, he's gotten down right civil! This happed about the time |> he got his first firearm. Wonder if there is a relationship here? Turns |> out that MOST people (at least the ones who are not criminals to start |> with) act responsibility once given the chance. I'd like to point out that I was in error - ""Terminator"" began posting only six months before he purchased his first firearm, according to private email from him. I can't produce an archived posting of his earlier than January 1992, and he purchased his first firearm in March 1992. I guess it only seemed like years. Back to your regularly scheduled flame fest. -- Kirk Hays - NRA Life, seventh generation. ""The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."" -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797) ",16 "Re: bikes jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes: >> >>>I've bike like | Jody Levine DoD #275 kV >>> got a you can if you -PF | Jody.P.Levine@hydro.on.ca >>> ride it | Toronto, Ontario, Canada >> >>Do you know what Syd meant when he wrote that line?? >Damn, am I in the wrong newsgroup again? Wrong newsgroup or no, What did Syd mean when he wrote that line? -Erc, the always curious. DoD# 1138 ",8 "Re: Dorothy Denning opposes Clipper, Capstone wiretap chips In article jhart@agora.rain.com (Jim Hart) writes: >""The security of the system should depend only on the secrecy of >the keys and not on the secrecy of the algorithms"" -- Dorothy Denning Cite source, please. --Mike -- Mike Godwin, | Ariel Rose Godwin mnemonic@eff.org| Born 4-15-93 at 4:34 pm in Cambridge (617) 576-4510 | 7 pounds, 1.5 ounces, 19.75 inches long EFF, Cambridge | A new citizen of the Electronic Frontier ",11 "Re: Type spesifications (CB, VFR, GT, etc.) In rec.motorcycles, cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes: > In article frankb@sad.hp.com (Frank Ball) writes: > }Honda: a ""V"" designates a V engine street bike. ""VF"" for V-4, ""VT"" for V-twin. > > So how about my Honda Hawk (NT 650)? It's a twin, but not called a VT. > -- That's because they took the old VT 500 engine and stepped on it to make the plant for the Hawk -> ""New Twin"". Or does that only fly for Microsoft NT (New Technology)? I've been at this too long today ... Cheers, Victor ""Dances with Hawks"" Johnson ---------------------------------- ",8 "Re: Shipping a bike >Can someone recommend how to ship a motorcycle from San Francisco >to Seattle? And how much might it cost? I'd recommend that you hop on the back of it and cruise - that's a really nice ride, if you choose your route with any care at all. Shouldn't cost more than about $30 in gas, and maybe a night's motel bill... _MelloN_ -- mellon@ncd.com uunet!lupine!mellon Member of the League for Programming Freedom. To find out how software patents may cost you your right to program, contact lpf@uunet.uu.net ",8 "Hi Volt from battery I need a small battery powered hi voltage capacitive discharge supply to deliver ~6 joules at 250 volts. This implies a 200uf cap. I have built a very satisfactorily operating version from a MAX641, but do not like the idea of using a $6 single source part. It seems that the ubiquitous camera flash circuit is what I want, but I cant get mine apart without breaking it. I would appreciate receiving the circuit description or a source of one. I have already looked in several electronics circuits handbooks to no avail. Thanx -- ______________________________________________ | martin johnson martyj@uiuc.edu | | ""mind your business"", on first US coin | |____________________________________________| ",12 "Re: Advise needed in buying Automobile From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) Subject: Advise needed in buying Automobile >I am in search of a dependable automobile to purchase. Below >are its requirements: > 5. V6 or above Most of the cars you mentioned are below (smaller than) V6 engine. Tony -- +--------------------------------------+ | Name: Antonio L. Balsamo | |Company: Digital Equipment Corp. | | Shrewsbury, Mass. | | Work #: (508) 841-2039 | | E-mail: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com | +--------------------------------------+ ",7 "I WANT YOUR 486sx or dx CHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!! I am in the market for a couple of Intel 486 chips. Please let me know if you have one (or more) for sale. I am interested in both SX and DX models, but they must be Intel. email me at: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Bitz Internet: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu Research and Development bitzm@dsuvax.dsu.edu Dakota State University Bitnet: s93020@sdnet.bitnet ",6 "FORSALE: 1980 Honda Maxima 650 FORSALE: 1980 Honda Maxima 650 15,000 miles New tires, new battery, in excellent shape. Asking $1300.00 obo. I'm posting this for a friend so contact him for details. His name is Ray Keys, and you can contact him at (803) 639-4469. Thanks.... Barry... -- Personal Theory: Socks are the larval form of wire coat-hangers. Barry Johnson, Clemson University, CTS. cyclist@hubcap.clemson.edu ",8 "Magellan Update - 04/16/93 Forwarded from Doug Griffith, Magellan Project Manager MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT April 16, 1993 1. The Magellan mission at Venus continues normally, gathering gravity data which provides measurement of density variations in the upper mantle which can be correlated to surface topography. Spacecraft performance is nominal. 2. Magellan has completed 7225 orbits of Venus and is now 39 days from the end of Cycle-4 and the start of the Transition Experiment. 3. No significant activities are expected next week, as preparations for aerobraking continue on schedule. 4. On Monday morning, April 19, the moon will occult Venus and interrupt the tracking of Magellan for about 68 minutes. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | The aweto from New Zealand /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | is part caterpillar and |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | part vegetable. ",14 "MACINTOSH LAB!!! HELP!!! Interesting delema for all those out there. My school is discussing installing a Mac lab of 10 to 15 stations for our Bio 100 to 103 classes to do a study with pig disections. (no joke) Here is the deal. We can get this grant to do a study on if it is more feasible to do a disection via the computer or via the real thing. My problem is I was somehow drawn into this project (being done by students who want to go Mac but know NADA about them, being the man mac man on campus, guess who they came to?) so I wnt to know what would probably be the best hardware to fill the follwoing list? Right now we are looking at the C650 8/80 and the 2vx 5/80 platforms. Ok here it goes: We are using cd-rom, so ought we go with the internal Apple Cd-roms offered as options in the 650 and vx or go external. It is a matter of price and reliability, the second being VERY important. How much RAM? I was thinking 5-8 more leaning towards 8? What do you think? Ok, called apple educational discounts and they said their keyboard (extended) is 160.30. Is it better to go with the Apple and their long time great wear and tear record, or is there a 3rd party extended keyboard that is just a reliable? Price? Printers: One color printer we are presently leaning towrds the Thermal Wax Tektronic 200e or 200i (Probably the e as we are going to limit access so we don't needed the i's networkability) So, what do you think in terms of color printers? Different brand? Kind (Dye Sublimation? Ink Jet?) Price? Companies? 1800 #s? Also, we are looking to get a laser printer or such to network into the whole lab for noraml printing. The fornt runner is the Apple Pro650 (is that right don't have my notes here?) at 1650. Suggestions? We have kids using these things all day if this lab goes through and they know nothing about it for the most part. It has to be reliable, easy to maintain, and economical (ie, not high priced paper cartidges, etc). Finally, and this is my little dig into the Project. What about netting these things? We have ether nearby and I would like to slap the macs on the net, but, server? Individual ether? Forget about it it is going to be astronomically priced and the school is going to laugh at you when you ask them? Little more info, I am a Poli Sci major who just happens to know alot about macs but this is a bit out of my league, not to mention I don't have the time to go and look for all of this stuff. So I am hoping the collective resources and intelect of the net can help (Has before) [Shameless plug: BUY EMPOWER!!! Great Security Program!!!] Disclaimer: This post is not and will never be supported by my University. They do not condone in any way my using this media to illict info. This is a proj by bio majors so they re the real persons. Anyinfo please send to the email above or to make it real clear rmwbb@wittenberg.edu And damn I hope my editor is alive when I get done typing s there is not another stupid blank post. I reserve the right to claim all this info as mine and use it to get everything I want form my Universities red taped administration. This info may be used for blackmail purposes and for obtaining undo amounts of praise and god like status. This info may also be used to get credits I probaly really don't deserve. That is the ned of it. Any questions? And thanks ahead of time!! Once again taping the collective genius of the internet, Scott D. Sauer ",4 "Re: Can't have it both ways- News as enemy, News as supporter. In article <1qvampINNmhf@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU writes: # Mr Cramer- # # You are on one hand condemning the news media as; # # ""The Role of the National News Media in Inflaming Passions"" that # was your message subject I believe. # # Then you turn around and actually take; From the Santa Rosa (Cal.) Press-Democrat, # April 15, 1993, p. B2: # # Male sex survey: Gay activity low title. # # You even use such a title for the San Jose Mercury News- the Murky News. # # Now which is it? Are you going to comdemn national media, then turn around # and use it to support some position you present? Seems somewhat contradictory # doesn't it. If you can show me that the Press-Democrat misrepresented the Guttmacher Institute's study, do so. -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Software Unlimited? Sorry to waste the bandwidth. Does anyone know a software mail order company called ""Software Unlimited""? I ordered a software from them and they charged my credit card but never did send the package to me. I call them many times but nobody answer the phone. I also check Computer Shoppers and found they don't advertise anymore. If you know if they are still in business or you know how to contact them, please tell me. Thank you very much. Ching-Tze Su ",6 "How to drive an array of LEDs? I have a project in mind that requires an array of LEDs that can be addressed individually by a microprocessor (say, 16x16 or so). Is there an LSI that is designed to drive an LED array (including RAM to hold the array state), or failing that, some way of multiplexing the display so I don't have to latch a bit for each LED using a discrete latch? (I want to avoid having a huge board covered with 373s if possible!) Thanks in advance... Phil Torre (ptorre@u.washington.edu) ",12 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1qvh8n$gf4@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@maple.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes: > >Give me a break. If the Mormons fortified Utah and armed it to the teeth, >and were involved in illegal activity, then they deserve whatever they get. Actually, after surviving being driven out of Nauvoo, and later Carthage, the Mormons DID fortify Utah. They still arm themselves to ""defend the faith"", and stockpile food as well. They have been involved in quite a lot of illegal activity - including multiple (and often underage) wives for the leaders - a practice still in vogue with some splinters of their sect. The parallels between Koresh and Joseph Smith are striking. So what did the Mormons get? It seems that J. Edgar Hoover was very impressed with the way they kept secrets. (They're pledged to defend secrets with their lives and atone for sin with blood. Many actually do - even to the point of suicide.) So he hired virtually no one but Mormons, until the FBI was almost exclusively staffed by members of the Church of Later Day Saints. Though J. Edgar is finally gone, the FBI personnel (especially the field agents) are still heavily Mormon. I have often wondered how this might affect the FBI's treatment of religious organizations a Mormon would consider heretical. -- = = = = = = = = = = Michael McClary mcclary@netcom.com For faster response, address electronic mail to: michael@node.com ",16 "Fixed-point math library Has anyone written or seen a C library or C++ class for fixed-point math, or good articles about same? I pretty much know how to do this, but I have a few other wheels to invent at the moment... Thanks! --- ""How am I typing? Call 1-818-354-7782"" jack@robotics.jpl.nasa.gov Jack Morrison/Jet Propulsion Lab/MS107-102 4800 Oak Grove Dr, Pasadena CA 91109 ",1 "Joystick again My disk that had my joystick code that some of you were kind enough to mail me puked....specifically, I am looking for C code to read the position of joystick WITHOUT using int15h, i.e. accessing port 0x200/0x201 directly. I need it in C becaues of memory model considerations. I only need to be able to read the X and Y position also. Brian ",3 "Sweet's Syndrome ? My brother's affine has recently been diagnosed with Sweet's syndrome. Also called steroid resistant Sweet's syndrome. This syndrome started after she had had Iodine 131 treatment for hyperthyroidism. She'd been reluctant to have treatment for the hyperthyroidism for many years and apparently started to show exaustion from it. I understand that she may still be testing high in thyroid level but she's isn't being treated by an endocrinologist. Her previous endocrinologist bowed out when she entered the hospital. She entered the hospital because of the Sweet's syndrome symptoms (skin lesions). I've looked through the last two years of Medline and didn't find an abstract mentioning a correlation between thyroid and Sweets. . I checked a handbook which said that Sweet's was associated with leukemia. I'd like a reccomndation for experts who are in New York City or who travel to New York City. For the sweets and perhaps for the endocrinology. Any information that might help. Apparently there hasn't been much improvement in her condition over the past several months. -Jackie- ",13 "Re: Life on Earth (or elsewhere :-) In article <1993May13.212559.19618@julian.uwo.ca> jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: >In article 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: > What evidence is there that there is a trend towards greater >species diversity over time? What I see going on right now is a major >extinction event, and it isn't clear to me that the diversity 10K years >ago was necessarily greater than 600 million years ago. Well, there are several bursts in species diversity I can think of. The Cambrian and Ordovician explosions resulted in a vast increase in animal diversity. Likewise, after the one-two punch of the Permian and Triassic extinctions, the number of marine animals rose steadily (**) to an all-time high (*) just prior to the spread of humans. (**) biggest exception being the K/T (bye bye dinos) extinction (*) about 800 families Also, plants arose from green algae and colonized the land in succesive sweeps. Mosses colonized very wet environments first, ferns (who had evolved vascular tissues) took over more territory when they evolved (1). These were eventually (mostly) replaced by gymnosperms (pines and the like) (2) and then (mostly) displaced by angiosperms (flowering plants -- now the dominant plant group on the planet(3). Fungi also radiated greatly with the invasion of the land. (1) around the carboniferous (up to about 200 families) (2) around the triassic (up to maybe 250 families) (3) starting in the cretaceous (rising to about 600 families currently) It's unclear (to me at least) what the max equilibrium number of species the earth can hold (***) and if it has ever hit this in the past. It could be (warning: speculation alert) that diversity has never reached a peak because mass extinctions happen often enough to keep the total number down. (***) This would depend a great deal on how fragmented specific ecosystems were. See Cowen's book ""History of Life"" for a not-too-technical run-down on, well, like the title sez, the history of life. Or see, Wilson's ""Diversity of Life"" for a view centered more on current ecology -- this is (IMHO) the best popular biology book of (what the hell, I'll say it) all time. > James Nicoll Follow-ups to t.o. Chris Colby --- email: colby@bu-bio.bu.edu --- ""'My boy,' he said, 'you are descended from a long line of determined, resourceful, microscopic tadpoles--champions every one.'"" --Kurt Vonnegut from ""Galapagos"" ",14 "Re: arcade style buttons and joysticks In article <1993Apr21.024036.7394@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, dnewman@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (David F. Newman) writes: > Hi there, > Can anyone tell me where it is possible to purchase controls found > on most arcade style games. Many projects I am working on would > be greatly augmented if I could implement them. Thanx in advance. HAP controls just outside Chicago sells these. I don't remember which suburb they are in. The prices are pretty reasonable and they are easy to hook up. I bought a new coin mechanism from them for $25.00 a couple of years ago. Andrew MacRae ",12 "Re: Procomm Plus for windows problems.... kentiler@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Kent P. Iler) writes: >Hi, > I have normal procomm plus for dos, but I've been considering buying >the windows version....it got really great reviews in computer shopper. >I have a friend who connects to the mainframe and unix machines here >using it, but the screen seems to have a problem keeping up with the >modem....he has a 14,400 modem on a 486 50 Mhz machine. I can't >see it having trouble keeping up. His pcplus for dos works great, >but the windows just seems to always screw up....Is this common >and is there a fix? Or is something just screwed with his machine? > Kent I have no trouble running Procomm for Windows at 14.4 v.42 on a considerably slower 486sx. Could be a video problem but only if he has incredibly slow video. ",2 "Re: Licensing of public key implementations In article <1993Apr4.221640.8104@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jebright@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James R Ebright) writes: >I guess we will have to wait for the time in the far future >when everyone uses such good crypto that the NSA has no job. Then the >agency will be disbanded and its files opened after the approprate >historical delay. ;) You've overlooked a fundamental Truth: both headcount and budget of any government agency are monotonic increasing functions. Given that Truth, you need to look for what the agency can do to occupy all those people and spend all that money when crypto is unbreakable. Perhaps they could talk the world's telephone companies into making equipment they could break into and tap. Maybe they could convince people that distributed computing was a good idea so that even the internal state of a process would be available for access by wiretapping. Maybe.... -- - <> - Carl Ellison cme@sw.stratus.com - Stratus Computer Inc. M3-2-BKW TEL: (508)460-2783 - 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298 FAX: (508)624-7488 ",11 "Re: Tickets etc.. Let's look at the effects of inflation on 1930's superstars' salaries. I read once that the Babe made $80,000 one year and that was about as good as it got for him. Let's assume he made that in 1928 (I'm not sure of the figures, but I know I'm in the ballpark--pun intended). :-) Today, assuming a 4% yearly inflation rate, which is an understatement if not accurate, his measly $80,000 salary would be worth. FV = $80,000 x (1+4%)^(1993-1928) = $80,000 x (1.04)^65 = just over $1,000,000. Assuming inflation is average of around 5%. FV = $80,000 x (1+5%)^65 = almost 2,000,000. (I didn't crunch these numbers beforehand). These numbers might lead one to believe that today's players are slightly overpaid. The Babe appears to have made then what today's average to above average players make now. Perfectly accurate salary, year of salary, and average inflation rate would make this analysis more accurate, but I don`t think I'm off by much. Chop Chop Michael Mule' -- Michael Andre Mule Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu ",9 "Re: Why I won't be getting my Low Rider this year In article <1993Apr5.182851.23410@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> car377@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (charles.a.rogers) writes: > >Ouch. :-) This brings to mind one of the recommendations in the >Hurt Study. Because the rear of the gas tank is in close proximity >to highly prized and easily damaged anatomy, Hurt et al recommended >that manufacturers build the tank so as to reduce the, er, step function >provided when the rider's body slides off of the seat and onto the >gas tank in the unfortunate event that the bike stops suddenly and the >rider doesn't. I think it's really inspiring how the manufacturers >have taken this advice to heart in their design of bikes like the >CBR900RR and the GTS1000A. When I'm riding my 900RR, my goodies are already up against the tank, because the design of the Corbin seat tends to move you forward. Wouldn't the major danger to one's cajones be due to accelerating into and then being stopped by the tank? If you're already there, there wouldn't be an impact problem, would there? - Michael - -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael Nelson 1993 CBR900RR | | Internet: nelson@seahunt.imat.com Dod #0735 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ",8 "Re: Best Homeruns In article <4200419@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes: >I'd have to say the most impressive HRs I've ever see came from Dave Kingman >and his infamous moon-raker drives... I remember one he hit circa 1976 at Wrigley Field that went across the street (in dead center field) and hit a house on the roof. He whiffed a lot, but when he *did* connect, watch out! -- #include Dan S. ",9 "switch settings for Bondwell 38 Hi! I recently got hold of an old/obsolete PC. First thing I am trying to do with it, is making it work. Seems the switches in the back have been toggled since last it was used, and I do not have the manual. Can anybody help me to identify this beast, and mail me the prober switch-settings? All I know is that is is a Bondwell 38, made in 1986, most likely a 286, can be toggled between 4.77 and 8 mHz, and looks like no changes have been made. Any information would be appreciated. -- Terje Johansen at Trondheim College of Engineering, Norway. My conscience once became so bad that it died. ",3 "Re: God-shaped hole (was Re: ""Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."") In article , fraseraj@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Andrew J Fraser) writes: > [Several people were involved in trying to figure out who first used > the phrase ""God-shaped hole"". --clh] > > ""There is a God shaped vacuum in all of us"" (or something to that effect) is > generally attributed to Blaise Pascal. I believe this is a just another of way of expressing the basic truth ""All things were created by him and FOR him."" (emphasis mine) Col. 1:16 , Rev. 4:11. If you and I have been created for God, naturally there will be a vacuum if God is not our all and all. In fact, the first chapter of Collosians brings out this status of Christ, that He should have the preeminence. When you life is alligned with Him, and you do His will, then the vacuum is filled. Marc Chamberland mchamberland@violet.uwaterloo.ca ",15 "Re: EIGHT MYTHS about National Health Insurance (Pt II) In article <1993Apr18.001116.19872@news.columbia.edu>, gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes... >The difference in the litigation environment is reflected in the fees. > >Lack of defensive medicine and near-absence of malpractice is really ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >why we spend less using the most expensive approach of pure insurance ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Then why do we really need national health insurance then? Wouldn't it just make more sense to find some way to cut down on the cost of malpractice insurance? And maybe that's not such a good thing. I also read somewhere that it is next to impossible in Canada to litigate against the health system-class action suits are nearly impossible, and you can't sue the provincial health officials at all. > >Part of the deal for using the all-insurance approach like the French >and Germans do (hey, why don't they criticize France and Germany? Is >it because too many people take French and German in college to make >the accusations stick? (-;) was to preserve the doctors independance. >Since the provincial wings of the CMA are the ones that go to bat when >the fee schedule hikes are presented, the politically-bent doctors >were just cackling when they realized the CMA would grow in strength >rather than diminish, especially when unopposed unlike in socialized >medicine approaches like Britain's National Health Service. Oh no. Don't let the AMA know about this. They have enough power as it is. Ask most Americans whether they'd like the doctors' lobby to get more powerful. >For non-life threatening things, market arguments adequately cover why >certain procedures are in scarcer demand. I have MD friends who can't >make a living as specialists back in Manitoba not due to the insurance >rates but because they won't get enough customers -- the CMA medical >monopoly's grip on doctors licencing (as in the US) aside -- so they >must move to larger places. However, this does not refute debunking >of waiting lines for urgent AND routine care, as has been done in the >U.S. by Consumers Reports, health policy studies cited by Prof. Dennis >E. Shea on USENET, CNN, NYT, etc. Well, yeah, tell us about the National Defense Medical Centre outside Ottawa. Theoretically it's limited to service personnel, but some studies I've heard about have suggested that about half the patients there are civilians who not only have connections but aren't ""urgent"" at all. The problem is, in a system where hospitals' annual budgets are approved by the government, how do you keep political considerations out of medical decisions? I bet that if you're an MP or MPP, or good friends with one, you're put on any hospital's ""urgent"" care list no matter how minor your problem. Which is OK unless you're someone who gets bumped off the list for some bigshot. >>WOULDN'T NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE MEAN THAT AMERICANS WHO ARE NOW >>FULLY INSURED MIGHT HAVE TO SETTLE FOR LESS? >> >>In Canada, provincial insurance covers all health costs except dental >>care, eyeglasses, prescription drugs, ambulance service, and private >>hospital rooms, -- so many Canadians do end up buying some private >>insurance. A policy to cover all of these things runs about #40 to $40 >>a month. Hmm. How much difference would it make in the figure of percentage of GNP spent on health care if dentistry and optometry were included in the accounting? Maybe Canada spends proportionately just as much on health care as we do. > >Of course, the one thing to note is that in the Canada/France/Germany >case, private insurance *offloaded* the basic coverage to the public >sector. They realized they were keeping low-risk/high-profit extra >insurance for things like private/semi-private rooms (vs. ward >accomodation), dental, glasses, etc. for corporate or personal >benefits, they'll have nothing to do with you if you want to be >covered for basic care. > >At that point, they wouldn't even consider a ""voucher"" approach >to broker the universal coverage and sell policies to make up >the difference in the federal guidelines and market stuff. So what happens if the health care systems financially collapse. Bob Rae, the second least popular man in Ontario, warned Ontarians a few years ago that if they didn't stop cross-border shopping in such huge numbers, ""the services they expect from the province just won't be there in a few years"" (Fortunately for them (and less fortunately for the retailers here in Western New York) the Canadian dollar went back to a more realistic value). He didn't say so, but I knew he meant the OHIP. What would happen if his warning turned out to be the truth? Would the private insurers take up the slack? They'd be under no obligation to. Of course, they could eventually make money again, but if what you say is true, they'd be loathe to do so (and out of practice in handling such basic services, too). > >>****************************************************************** >> >>WOULDN'T FREE CARE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO RUN TO THE DOCTOR FOR EVERY >>ACHE AND PAIN? >> >>People who get free treatment *do* go to the doctor and hospital about >>a third more often than those who have to pay a share of their medical >>bills. >> >>Still, Canadians -- who pay nothing at the doctor's -- have a lower >>per-person health bill than we do. > >It is ""free"" in that there are no deductibles nor copayments (two >things which I advocate to make the Canadian insurance look more like >real health insurance -- which actually it is). I know that when >working in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec, I was aware that I was paying >for health insurance - e.g., in Toronto, OHIP fees were listed on my >pay stub; Manitoba did not collect at paycheque time, but only >annually at income tax time (built into the tax rate). Only fiscal >naifs will proclaim that it's free, along with the Canadian Left for >that is part of their brainwashing agenda. Would that it were free. Americans would start another revolution if they had to pay taxes at Canadian rates. >>ISN'T THE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY JUST TOO BIG >>AND POWERFUL TO KILL? >> >>Dismantling the health segment of our insurance industry would be >>""politically thorny,"" in the quiet words of one advocate for a >>national plan. Some 1,200 firms now sell more than $192 billion in >>health insurance. They'd put up a hard fight. Not only has the industry >>grown eightfold since Canada shut down its own health insurers, but >>our government leaves politicians more open to lobbyists than does >>Canada's parliamentary system. > >Health insurance does exist in Canada and in Western Europe, its >just that it doesn't cover basic care. You can opt out in Canada >and Germany, but you'll have to go uninsured as a result because >there are too few other people that do so --- i.e., no market. > >When private insurance realized how much money they'd make without the >risks involved in basic insurance (e.g., neurosurgery) versus deluxe >amenities (e.g., having to call Granada TV to replace a rental set on >the fritz in someone's private hospital room), they started to pat >themselves on the back for their social responsibility. In Quebec >last spring, a consortium of private insurers publicly warned against >any thoughts of privatizing routine, low cost parts of that province's >public health insurance plan. Again, I doubt Americans would like giving the insurance companies that much power. I half wonder if the Canadian health insurers didn't go along with the provinces and the federal government years ago because they knew that there was a good chance of the public system going bust in the long run, and then afterwards they could clean up (Okay, this sort of contradicts what I said higher up. But it's another possibility). They'd have an added bonus when arguing against government involvement in their industry-as they could then point to its failure instead of just citing theoretical principles. ",18 "Re: Long distance IR detection In article <1993Apr22.060607.12380@macc.wisc.edu> jvannes@vms.macc.wisc.edu writes: I would also be interested in the application here. I work with a Dance and Technology program, and want to build something to track dancers on a 30 foot wide stage from 50 feet away. Could make for some interesting choreography... light and sound could be controlled directly by the position of a dancer on stage, or by the number of dancers on stage. Neat. You could even build a spotlight that follows the dancer around on stage! Can you tell us more about what you're doing? Sounds like a very cool program. Caleb Strockbine cstrockb@ic.sunysb.edu ",12 "Re: IDE vs SCSI In article <1993Apr18.035941.14697@grebyn.com> richk@grebyn.com (Richard Krehbiel) writes: > >Heck, if IDE used DMA, then you'd hear all kinds of complaints about >ISA bus systems with more than 16M RAM not working with their IDE >drives. 16M is the DMA addressing limit of the ISA bus, and if IDE >did DMA there would be trouble. There would be no problems as long as the OS didn't set up a DMA transfer to an area above the 16 mb area (the DMA controller probably can't be programmed that way anyways, so there probably isin't a problem with this) Besides, like I said before, the FDD controller uses DMA channel #2. And I don't yet believe that the HDD controllers (any of them, MFM, RLL, etc) don't also use DMA. ",3 " college hockey all-star game Does anybody know the details of the Shriners All-Star game that featured the best seniors in college hockey in a game in Orono, Maine? If you do, please reply. ",10 "Re: XV 3.00 has escaped! bradley@grip.cis.upenn.edu (John Bradley) writes: >If found, it answers to the name of 'contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z'. Before I even think about getting this, is it going to be posted to comp.sources.x at any time in the near future? Greg. -- Greg Sands. | Department of Engineering Science ----------- | University of Auckland g.sands@auckland.ac.nz | New Zealand. ",5 "Re: xdm and env. vars In article <9304292140.AA29951@haji.haji_sun>, fwr8bv@fin.af.MIL writes: > I am using xdm on X11R5 with OW3 and Xview3 on Sun3s and SPARCs running > SunOS 4.1.1. Prior to using xdm, I used to set PATH and other environment > variables (like MANPATH, HELPPATH, ARCH, etc) in my .login file. With xdm, > the .login file doesn't get executed and therefore neither the olwm > root-window nor my applications know about these variables. You should try having a .xsession script in $HOME to do these things. xdm will start up your process using the system version (usually /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession), which should check whether you have your won and change to that if you do. (Take a copy of the system one and edit it). Note, that this file requires ""x"" access to be set. -------------------------- Gordon Lack ---------------------------------- The contents of this message *may* reflect my personal opinion. They are *not* intended to reflect those of my employer, or anyone else. ",5 "Re: Founding Father questions arc@cco.caltech.edu (Aaron Ray Clements) writes: >Wasn't she the one making the comment in '88 about George being born with >a silver foot in his mouth? Sounds like another damn politician to me. > >Ain't like the old days in Texas anymore. The politicians may have been >corrupt then, but at least they'd take a stand. (My apologies to a few >exceptions I can think of.) > >News now is that the House may already have a two-thirds majority, so >her ""opposition"" out of her concern for image (she's even said this >publicly) may not matter. Do people expect the Texans congressmen to act as the N.J. Republicans did? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Podleski | phone: 216-433-4000 NASA Lewis Research Center | Cleveland, Ohio 44135 | email: pspod@gonzo.lerc.nasa.gov ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",16 "Re: Dmm Advice Needed I've had my Fluke 8060A here at work for just over 10 years now. It is a wonderful meter. Several colleagues here have some of the newer Fluke meters, though I still would just as soon hang on to my 8060. The 8060 a is the 1980s digial ""analog"" to the Simpson 260 analog DMM of the 1950-1960s. There was/is (?) an 8060B that had extended frequency response. I've got a nifty little pen shaped meter made by Soar that I keep in my toolbox at home. I've had that for six or seven years now and only replaced the batteries a couple of timees; it is more than adequate for day-to-day hobby use. I think Soar OEMs their stuff for a number of vendors. Some of JDR Microdevices' stuff looks rather similar to Soar's. -- Bill Mayhew NEOUCOM Computer Services Department Rootstown, OH 44272-9995 USA phone: 216-325-2511 wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (140.220.1.1) 146.580: N8WED ",12 "Re: Quaint US Archaisms In article , nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes: |> In article <1993Apr2.170157.24251@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes: |> |> Of course the units of force have the same names as those of weight, |> but in order to use them you need to keep useful constants like the |> omnipresent 32.???? ft/sec^2 around. |> |> Maybe you'd like to go over again how this system is _so_ natural and |> _so_ easy to use, Gary? While you're at it, you can figure out for us |> the weight of 17 barrels and a quart of foo (density 17lb 2 3/4 oz per |> cubic foot) on the moon (gravity 5 ft 7 3/32 in/sec^2). Let's face it, |> even the imperial system uses a basically metric way of relating |> quantities (i.e. that would be written as 5.59 ft/sec^2); the only |> thing you're hanging on to is the right to express the same quantity |> as 1731 inches, 144.25 feet, 48.0833 yards or 2.186 chains. What |> everyone else is saying is _why_ do you want to do that? |> |> Any apparent remaining complexity in the SI system is due to the |> multiplicity of the aforesaid prefixes. In fact what's going on (and |> the fundamental difference between SI and imperial) is that you have |> exactly one unit of each type, and all values of that type are |> expressed as some multiple of the unit. You mean like: seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years. . . :-) Remember, the Fahrenheit temperature scale is also a centigrade scale. Some revisionists tell the history something like this: The coldest point in a particular Russian winter was marked on the thermometer as was the body temperature of a volunteer (turns out he was sick, but you can't win 'em all). Then the space in between the marks on the thermometer was then divided into hundredths. :-) FWIW, Doug Page *** The opinions are mine (maybe), and do not necessarily represent those *** *** of my employer (or any other sane person, fot that matter). *** ",14 "Modems: Simple Question D> I am going to purchase a Modem with a S/R FAX capability. Currently I D> am considering Suprav.32bis or Global Village Teleport-Gold. D> D> The Global Village averages about $100 more, is there an advantage? D> D> Concerning FAX: Do I need to be present when there are incoming FAX D> i.e., will the modem software recognize an incoming FAX and store the D> information. Once received, can I use Mac applications on the image. D> My telephone line seems pretty stable and I have the Supra as well. Works great but with every passing day I fall behind on how many great 14.4s are out. Zoom is out of the question from what I'm hearing. AT&T has a great product from what I hear and the Sportster is really cheap now too. If you want to receive a fax, your computer will have to be on, but not the monitor and of course the modem. You can set the number of rings that will receive the fax on a specific ring you set with Fax STF software. It's entirely up to you how to arrange that. I've had faxes sent to me which is great but I've been home to set it. I don't have a need to set fax receiving up all day. Also I hear there is a device that can channel all incoming phone signals for about $70. Rumor also that the phone company can hook you up with the same gizmo for about $5 if that's what you need. Best of luck and write back if you'd like more feedback. * Freddie 1.2.5 * Clinton: The Tax Man Cometh & Cometh & Cometh & keeps on coming -- =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Roman Brice - Internet: Roman.Brice@f204.n2603.z1.fidonet.org ",4 "Re: NEWS YOU WILL MISS, Apr 15 In article <1qvgcb$jud@genesis.MCS.COM> arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: >In article <1qun1aINNik5@aludra.usc.edu> sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) writes: >>arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: >>> Yigal et al, sue ADL >>Why do you title this ""News you will miss"" ? >>There have been at least three front-page stories on it in the L.A. Times. >This may come as a surprise to you but there are a few americans who do not >read the LA Times. ...because the Israelists have been stealing the copies of the LA Times as soon as they arrive in NY... -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "SALE! MELITTIN (see letter) MELITTIN In cooperation with the State Scientific Center on Antibiotics we have elaborated our own technology of bee venom components isolation, particularly melitin, using modern chromatographic eduipment by ""Pharmacia"" and ""Millipore"" Companies, with application of only the materials, admitted for manufacturing pharmaceutic production. High quality of our product is acknowledged by the expertise of the Accredited test laboratory firm ""Test"" v/o ""Souzexpertisa"" TPP RF. íÅlittin - no less than 92% of the primary substance content. Quantity:from 100 g up to 5 kg. Date of manufacture: March 1993. Price:2500 dol.USA per 1g. Certificate:Is on sale Adress:105094,Moscow,Semyenovskiy Val,10-a, ""BOST""Partnership Ltd.Tel/fax 194-86-04,369-46-68 ",13 "Re: Sphere from 4 points? In article <1qkgbuINNs9n@shelley.u.washington.edu>, bolson@carson.u.washington.edu (Edward Bolson) writes: |> Given 4 points (non coplanar), how does one find the sphere, that is, |> center and radius, exactly fitting those points? Finding the circumcenter of a tetrahedron is discussed on page 33 in CONTOURING: A guide to the analysis and display of spatial data, by Dave Watson, Pergamon Press, 1992, ISBN 0 08 040286 0, 321p. Each pair of tetrahedral vertices define a plane which is a perpendicular bisector of the line between that pair. Express each plane in the form Ax + By + Cz = D and solve the set of simultaneous equations from any three of those planes that have a vertex in common (all vertices are used). The solution is the circumcenter. -- Dave Watson Internet: watson@maths.uwa.edu.au Department of Mathematics The University of Western Australia Tel: (61 9) 380 3359 Nedlands, WA 6009 Australia. FAX: (61 9) 380 1028 ",1 "(none) I am working on a problem of scheduling classroom, and I will like to know if you have some software, papers or articles about it. If you have something relate it, please let me know. thanks Lorenza Illanes ",5 "Re: Would ""clipper"" make a good cover for other encryption method? In article <1993Apr20.032623.3046@eff.org> kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie) writes: >Clipper might be a good way to cover the use of another layer of >encryption. True, but will traditional encryptions schemes, when further encrypted by Clipper, be _more_ vulnerable to attacks such as partially known plaintext? -Thomas ",11 "****CHRISTIANITY IN CRISIS**** by Hank Hanegraaff ""CHRISTIANITY IN CRISIS"" by: Hank Hanegraaff ""Controversy for the sake of controversy is a sin. Controversy for the sake of truth is a divine command."" -Dr. Walter Martin Dr. Walter Martin personally selected Hank Hanegraaff to succeed him as President of the Christian Research Institute -- the largest evangelical counter-cult organization in the world. In this skillful, careful treatment of an explosive subject, Hanegraaff documents and examines how the beliefs of the Word of Faith movement clearly compromises and confuse the essentials of the historic Christian faith. For the first time ever, this large and influential movement is legitimately labeled as cultic. In this book, Hanegraaff discusses such leaders of the Word of Faith movement as E.W. Kenyon and the Twelve Apostles of ""another gospel"" (Gal 1:6-9) (Kenneth E. Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Frederick K.C. Price, John Avanzini, Robert Tilton, Marilyn Hickey, Paul (David) Yonggi Cho, Charles Capps, Jerry Savelle, Morris Cerullo, and Paul and Jan Crouch). The book is now available through Harvest House Publishers and should be in most Christian Book Stores soon. You can order a hard-back copy through CRI for $14.99 by calling 1-800-443-9797 and avoid retail mark-ups. The Christian Research Journal, which is a quarterly publication by CRI has an article in it's most recent issue just released called, ""What's Wrong With The Word Faith Movement?"" This is a good article that will inform you of each of the teachers above, and tide you over until your book arrives. If you are interested in receiving the Journal yourself, you can order it from CRI at the number above for $14 a year. It is the best source of the most-accurate and well-researched info in Christiandom today. [If we're going to have a discussion of book here (and this is the third posting so far), I'd like people to say enough about its contents for people to decide whether it's worth reading. --clh] ",15 "Re: Variants in the NT Text (cont.) From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) >Does anyone now where an English translation of the long recension of >the Acts of the Apostles can be found? 1] An english translation of this can be found in: ""The Acts of the Apostles, translated from the Codex Bezae, with an introduction on its Lucan Origin and Importance"", J. M. Wilson (London, 1923). 2] Another work that might be useful is: ""The Acts of the Apostles, a Critical Edition with Introduction and Notes on Selected Passages"", Albert C. Clark (Oxford, 1933; reprinted 1970). (This is an edition of text of Acts that makes the assumption that the text in Codex Bezae is the more authentic. I don't know if it actually contains an english translation or not.) 3] Another useful that discusses many of the variants in detail is: ""The Theological Tendency of the Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis in Acts"", Eldon J Epp (Cambridge, 1966). 4] The most recent reference I found was an edition in French from the early '80s. (I can supply the reference if anyone's interested.) 5] Now, many of the works are going to be difficult to find. So if you're interested in examining the differences in the long recension an excellent (and easily obtainable) discussion can be found in: ""A Textual Commentary on the Greek NT"", Bruce Metzger (United Bible Society, 1971). Metzger's book serves as a companion volume to the UBS 3rd edition of the Greek NT. It contains a discussion on the reasoning that went behind the decisions on each of the 1440 variant readings included in the UBS3. Furthermore, notes on an addition 600 readings are included in aTCotGNT (the majority of these occur in Acts). In particular in the introduction to the section on Acts Metzger writes: ""[An attempt was made] to set before the reader a more or less full report (with an English translation) of the several additions and other modifications that are attested by Western witnesses ... Since many of these have no corresponding apparatus in the text-volume, care was taken to supply an adequate conspectus of the evidence that supports the divergent readings."" (p 272). >I understand that one of the early codexes, Vaticanus and Siniaticus has >this version of Acts. It would be interesting to know what the >differences are between the long and the short forms. 6] Most of the copies of the text of Acts that we have (including the ones in Vaticanus and Siniaticus) adher pretty closely to the shorter (or Alexandrian) version. The longer version to which you refer is usually called the ""Western"" version and its main witness is the Codex Bezae (althought there are a few other rather fragmentary sources). 7] As far as size, the difference is that in Clark's edition (mentioned above) the book of Acts contains 19,983 words whereas the text edited by Westcott and Hort (a typical Alexandrian text) contains 18,401 words; i.e. a difference of about 8-1/2%. 8] To answer the obvious questions, no, there are no major revelations in the longer text nor major omissions in the shorter text. The main difference seems to ""expansion"" of detail in the Western text (or, if you prefer ""contractions"" in the Alexandrian). The Western text seems to be given to more detail. There are some interesting specific cases, but this probably not the place to go into it in detail. 9] The discussion over the years as to which of these versions is the more authentic has been hot and heavy. If there is anything approaching a modern consensus it is (i) that neither text represents purely the ""authentic"" version, (ii) each variant reading has to be examined on its own merits however, (iii) the variant in the Alexandrian text is the ""better"" more often than not. N ",15 "X11 Servers for MS Windows available? I have the text on the non-Un*x X11 servers, so I do know that there are X11 servers available for use with MSWindows 3.1. My question is, does anybody have any relevant information on the usability of these servers? Has anyone tried to use them on a Token Ring network and gotten them to work? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dick Kaul | My opinions only, not official IBM positions, etc-- IBM XGA Development | they'd make me wear a suit if I were to speak for IBM. Boca Raton, FL | ""The use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension kaul@vnet.ibm.com | of the Blues Brothers has been approved."" ",5 "Re: Med school admission I'm a fellow applicant and my situation is not too much better. I applied to about 20 schools, got two interviews, got one offer, and am waiting to hear from the other school. Let me be honest about my experiences and impressions about the medical school admissions process. Numbers (GPA, MCATs) are not everything, but they are probably more important than anything else. In fact, some schools screen out applicants based on these numbers and never even look at your other qualities. Of course, when this happens, don't expect a refund on your $50 application fee. But, the fact that you got four interviews tells me that you have the numbers and are very well qualified academically. You mentioned one response, was it an acceptance, denial, or wait-list? If I assume the worst, that it was a denial, then you still have a great probability of acceptance somewhere. How did your interviews go? As for how long you have to wait, I've called a few schools who never contacted me for anything. Many of them told me that the interview season for them was over and that if I haven't heard by now, I can assume a denial. Many rejection letters are not sent out until May or as late as June. But some schools are still interviewing. I really don't think you should worry. Don't become fixated on the mailbox, go out, have fun, be very proud of yourself. What do people think of the medical school admissions process? I had a very mediocre GPA, but high MCAT scores, and I have been working as a software engineer for two years. I majored in Computer Science at Stanford. Still, I think the profile of the person who has the best chance of getting admitted is something like this: VERY IMPORTANT -------------- GPA: 3.5 or better MCAT: top 15% in all subject MEDIUM IMPORTANCE ----------------- Writing/Speaking ability Maturity Motivation for going into medicine Activities LESS IMPORTANT -------------- College or University Major Work experience Anything else you want them to know Anyway, you are in good shape. I think admissions committees are bound in many ways by the numbers, but would like very much to understand each person as an individual. Sometimes thats just not practical. But getting four interviews is an indicator that you have the numbers. Hopefully, you were able to impress them with your character. Good luck, Jeff ",13 "Re: Persistent vs Chronic In article <10587@blue.cis.pitt.edu> kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert) writes: > >Seriously though, I wonder how someone with CPH would end up getting a >biopsy in the first place? My understanding (and feel free to correct me) >is that the enzymes are at worst mildly elevated, with overall normal >hepatic function. I would think that the only clue might be a history of >prior HepB infection and a positive HepB-sAg. Or is it indeed on a >continuum with CAH, and the distinction merely one of pathology and >prognosis, but otherwise identical clinical features? > Chronic persistent hepatitis is usually diagnosed when someone does a liver biopsy on a patient that has persistently elevated serum transaminases months after a bout of acute viral hepatitis, or when someone is found to have persistently elevated transaminases on routine screening tests. The degree of elevation (in the serum transaminases) can be trivial, or as much as ten times normal. Other blood chemistries are usually normal. As a rule, patients with CPH have no clinical signs of liver disease. Chronic active hepatitis can also be asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, at least initially, and that's why it's important to tell them apart by means of a biopsy. The patient with CPH only needs to be reassured. The patient with CAH needs to be treated. ====================================== Howard Doyle doyle+@pitt.edu ",13 "Re: Krillean Photography HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com writes: : As you know all ready, it is the pattern in the bioplasmic energy : field that is significant. No, I didn't already know that. I've never even heard of a ""bioplasmic energy field."" Care to explain it? It's been a few years since my last fields class so I may have forgotten (or maybe I skipped that day). Anyway, as Ross Perot said, I'm all ears. Well, eyes in this case. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! Is something VIOLENT Rosemount Inc. |going to happen to a GARBAGE |CAN? grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | ",13 "Seeking FAX For Network Access I am seeking recommendations/Vendors for a Networkable FAX. It would mainly be used for outgoing FAX's from Mac's on our Net. The ability to Fax from other platforms would be a plus. Ethernet interface would be preffered but LocalTalk would suffice. Can anyone provide any info? Thanks in advance, --Peter <==================================+==================================> Peter Haase + Internet: haase@meediv.lanl.gov Network Manager + Los Alamos National Laboratory ",4 "Re: temperature of the dark sky In article <1993Apr28.002214.16544@Princeton.EDU> richmond@spiff.Princeton.EDU (Stupendous Man) writes: > Henry, if I read you correctly, you may be asking ""If I put a blackbody >in interstellar space ('disregarding the Sun and nearby large warm objects'), >what termperature will it reach in thermal equilibrium with the ambient >radiation field?"" Basically the right question, although I was interested in cases closer to home where the Sun is behind either a natural object or effective shielding. > If that's the case, let me point out that interstellar dust and >molecules provide many instances of things that are, well, not-too-far >from being blackbodies... > Inside the disk of the galaxy, the temperature varies quite a bit >from place to place... Good point (and thanks for the references). -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Re: Manual Xmission-Advice needed... I don't think that a transmission fluid change will solve your problem. Unless you are in an extremely cold climate and using a very heavy weight fluid. Follow the manufacturer's recommended oil weight. Some of the cars I have had (all standard transmissions 4 or 5 speeds) recommend changing the transmission fluid at 30,000 miles under normal driving conditions. I've gone 100,000 without changing the transmission oil (and had to replace the transmission bearings!). My older cars used 85 weight oil whereas my 92 Honda uses 10-30 motor oil (or maybe 30 weight). ",7 "Re: Can I get more than 640 x 480 on 13"" monitor? Try MaxAppleZoom ( a shareware init ) if your monitor is not driven by internal video. chen ",4 "Re: What planets are habitable In article loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) writes: >From: loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) >Subject: Re: What planets are habitable >Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 13:38:28 GMT >In article jpg@bnr.co.uk (Jonathan P. Gibbons) writes: >>I would appreciate any thoughts on what makes a planet habitable for Humans. >>I am making asumptions that life and a similar atmosphere evolve given a range >>of physical aspects of the planet. The question is what physical aspects >>simply disallow earth like conditions. >> >>eg Temperature range of 280K to 315K (where temp is purely dependant on dist >> from the sun and the suns temperature..) >> Atmospheric presure ? - I know nothing of human tolerance There are people who have adapted to high altitudes in the Andes and in Tibet. I suspect that it took them several generations to make the adaptation because Europeans had difficulty making the adaptation. They had to send the women to a lower altitude when they were pregnant in order to insure sucessful childbirth. >> Planetary Mass ? - again gravity at surface is important, how much >> can human bodies take day after day. Also how does the mass effect >> atmosphere. I thinking of planets between .3 and 3 times mass of the >> earth. I suppose density should be important as well. >> Another factor you should consider is the X-ray opacity of the atmosphere in case of stellar flares, the uv opacity is also important because uv radiation can kill or damage microbes, plants, and animals. >>Climate etc does not concern me, nor does axial tilt etc etc. Just the above >>three factors and how they relate to one another. >> ",14 "Re: Civil Rights Violations >> Eighth Amendment: >> 1) The Davidians suffered cruel and unusual punishment when: >> f> Thoes who escaped were imprisoned without bail without a >hearing. > >Happens all the time, they were arraigned the next day, I'd doubt >you'd have any luck on this point. I had heard that not all were arraigned yet, some were being held as ""material witnesses."" ",16 "Fitting straight line (or curve) to data points I am looking for a graphing program that will fit my data to a straight line. Any program that estimates a closest fit curve or gives any statistics would be helpful. Thank You. Andy Ward -- _____________________________________________________________ Andrew Ward Martin Marietta Corporation warda@land.vf.ge.com ",1 "Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)... In article smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes: > >I was thinking about who on each of the teams were the MVPs, biggest >surprises, and biggest disappointments this year. Now, these are just >my observations and are admittedly lacking because I have not had an >opportunity to see all the teams the same amount. Anyway.... > >Team: MVP: Surprise: Disappointment: >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Edmonton Oilers Manson Buchberger Mellanby Well, since the Oilers didn't win a heck of a lot of games, I'm not sure they deserve and MVP (""can't win without him""). However, I'd suggest Kelly Buchberger instead of Dave Manson, who has had a brutal year, his pick for the All-Star game notwithstanding. As for biggest surprise, I'd say that Buchberger had higher expectations this year due to his ""breakthrough"" year (for him) last year, so he didn't really raise his game. My suggestion would be Shjon Podein, one of the callups from Cape Breton during the year. He was quite far down on the depth chart in the Oilers stable of prospects, but made a big impact on the team. He has 12 goals in his 33 games and is only -1. Those are decent numbers for a third-line player who was seemingly doomed to minor-league oblivion. The Oilers coaching staff likens his style to John Tonelli. I think he'll be on the full-time roster next year. As for biggest disappointment, you could name any of the players the Oilers dumped for lousy production this year (Nicholls, Gilchrist, Tikkanen) or even Shayne Corson, but Mellanby isn't far off. -- Andrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com HP IDACOM Telecom Division | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253 During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old... ",10 "Why religion and which religion? My family has never been particularly religious - singing Christmas carols is about the limit for them. Thus I've never really believed in God and heaven, although I don't actually believe that they don't exist either - I'm sort of undecided, probably like a lot of people I guess. Lately I've been thinking about it all a lot more, and I wondered how religious people can be so convinced that there is a God. I feel as though I want to believe, but I'm not used to believing things without proof - just as I can't believe that there definitely isn't a God, so I can't definitely believe that there is. I wondered if most of you were brought up by religious families and never believed any different. Can anyone help me to understand how your belief and faith in God can be so strong. Another question that frequently crosses my mind is which religion is correct?? How do you choose a religion, and how do you know that the Christian God exists and the Gods of other religions don't?? How do you feel about people who follow other religions?? How about atheists?? And people like me - agnostics I suppose. Do you respect their religion, and accept their beliefs as just as valid as your own?? Isn't there contradiction between the religions?? How can your religion be more valid than any others?? Do you have less respect for someone if they're not religious, or if they follow a different religion than you would if they were Christian?? Also, how much of the scriptures are correct?? Are all events in the bible really supposed to have happened, or are they just supposed to be stories with morals showing a true Christian how to behave?? I generally follow most of the Christian ideas, which I suppose are fairly universal throughout all religions - not killing, stealing, etc, and 'Loving my neighbour' for want of a better expression. The only part I find hard is the actual belief in God. Finally, what is God's attitude to people like me, who don't quite believe in Him, but are generally fairly 'good' people. Surely not believing doesn't make me a worse person?? If not, I find myself wondering why I so strongly want to really believe, and to find a religion. Sorry if I waffled on a bit - I was just writing ideas as they came into my head. I'm sure I probably repeated myself a bit too. Thanks for the help, Paul Simmons [There's been enough discussion about evidence for Christianity recently that you may prefer to respond to this via email rather than as a posting. --clh] ",15 "Re: Quadra SCSI Problems??? In article , johnston@me.udel.edu (Bill Johnston) writes: |> In article <1993Apr16.144750.1568@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> nodine@lcs.mit.edu (Mark H. Nodine) writes: |> >I don't know about the specific problem mentioned in your |> >message, but I definitely had SCSI problems between my |> >Q700 and my venerable Jasmine Megadrive 10 cartridge |> >drives. My solution was to get Silverlining. None of |> >the loops that involved blind writes worked to the drives; |> >in fact the only loop that worked was the ""Macintosh |> >Software"" loop (whatever that means). |> |> I doubt this is a Quadra-specific problem. I had to get |> rid of my ""venerable"" Bernoulli 20 last year (with enough |> cartridges purchased at ~$90 each to make the whole thing |> worth more than my whole computer ;). The tech support guys |> at Ocean Microsystems suggested that some third-party drivers |> might fix the problem - in my case the cartridges wouldn't |> format/mount/partition for A/UX. All I know is that the Megadrives worked perfectly on both my Mac Plus and my Powerbook 140. It was for this reason I assumed the problem had something to do with the Quadra. Even with the Quadra, they mostly worked OK. The problem occurred when I ejected a cartridge from a drive: it would start popping up dialog boxes saying ""This cartridge must be formatted with Jasmine Driveware"" even though there was no cartridge in the drive. --Mark ",4 "What is 3dO? Someone please fill me in on what 3do. Thanks, BH ",1 "Re: Braves Update!! In <1993Apr19.194025.8967@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes: >In article <13512@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes: >>that HE'D been thrown out. And Gant had a legitimate beef about >>the 1-0 pitch that was called a strike. A reasonable umpire would >>not have tried to FORCE Gant back into the box in that situation. >A reasonable umpire would do as he's been instructed to do this season: get >the batters back in the box sooner to try to cut down on the ridiculous >length of games. I for one am glad to see this happen, and hope more >umpires will do as Hirschbeck did in instructing the pitcher to pitch if >the batter won't get back in the box. While I can see why they want to cut down on the time spent walking around, Gant wasn't ordered back in the box ""sooner"", he was ordered back immediately. As soon as he stepped out, Hirschbeck told him to get back in the box. Now, Gant doesn't take a lot of walks between pitches. The only reason he did then because he was *very* bothered by the call. I expect his concentration wasn't there yet, and in a crucial situation I imagine it's best to be as calm as possible. Contributing factors would be Gant's bad day at the plate, bad year at the plate, and the Braves long scoring drought. Now, it's pretty stupid to go ahead and talk the walk when the umpire is telling you to get in there. You know the umpire is going to do something (call for a strike, throw you out, etc.). Gant was wrong. But Hirschbeck was more wrong, in my biased view. Aside from the major chip he seemed to have on his shoulder, what was the problem. Gant had a reason to want some time (disputed strike call). Gant hadn't been wasting time all game. The game had been cruising along, and was just over two hours old. The score was 1-0, with 2 outs in the ninth and a runner in scoring position. Is there *any* reason Hirschbeck couldn't, and shouldn't, cut Gant a little slack? For no discernible constructive reason, Hirschbeck disrupted the game, caused a five minute delay, and materially hurt the batter in a key situation. Did he have a date to get to? And I still wonder why Terry was tossed earlier in the game. -- Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic ""It is considered good to look wise, especially when not overburdened with information"" -- J. Golden Kimball ",9 "* What's the difference between a Mac Portable and Powerbook 100? I've been looking into getting a portable Mac to do some work and I've had my eye on the PB 100. Lately, I've been seeing people with the old portables, and they're selling for $300 LESS that the PB 100s. What I want to know is: what are the differences between them? All I know is that the Portable is heavier, but the PB100 doesn't have an internal drive. Here's what I NEED to know: Does the portable support Appletalk/network connections? What's the CPU inside a Portable? (68000?) DOES THE PORTABLE SUPPORT SYSTEM 7????????? What's the maximum memory capacity of the Portable? Can you still get RAM (meaning: does it use special SIMMS?) What kind of internal HD does it use? Does the Portable have a better screen? THANX in advance. ===============================Mike Gaines============================== = WHAT is your name? Captain Jean-Luc Picard = = WHAT is your quest? I seek the Holy Grail = = WHAT is the top velocity of a Bird of Prey? Romulan or Klingon? = = I....I don't know...AAAHHHH!!!! = =============================meg5184@hertz.njit.edu===================== Graphix@AOL.com ",4 "Re: Clipper will corrupt cops (was WH proposal from Police point of view) In article <1993Apr21.041033.16550@news.clarkson.edu>, tuinstra@signal.ece.clarkson.edu.soe (Dwight Tuinstra) writes: > The clear implication is that there are ""legal"" authorizations other > than a court order. Just how leaky are these? I don't have the wiretap statute handy. But here's what the law says on pen registers. This is all from Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Note how vague S. 3125(a)(1)(B) is.... I haven't had a chance to check out 50 U.S.C. 1801 yet. ---- 18 USC S. 3121 Pen Registers (as of 4/93) S. 3121. General prohibition on pen register and trap and trace device use; exception (a) In general. Except as provided in this section, no person may install or use a pen register or a trap and trace device without first obtaining a court order under section 3123 of this title or under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.). ..... S. 3125. Emergency pen register and trap and trace device installation (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter , any investigative or law enforcement officer, specially designated by the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Associate Attorney General, any Assistant Attorney General, any acting Assistant Attorney General, or any Deputy Assistant Attorney General, or by the principal prosecuting attorney of any State or subdivision thereof acting pursuant to a statute of that State, who reasonably determines that-- (1) an emergency situation exists that involves-- (A) immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury to any person; or (B) conspiratorial activities characteristic of organized crime, that requires the installation and use of a pen register or a trap and trace device before an order authorizing such installation and use can, with due diligence, be obtained, and (2) there are grounds upon which an order could be entered under this chapter to authorize such installation and use ""may have installed and use a pen register or trap and trace device if, within forty-eight hours after the installation has occurred, or begins to occur, an order approving the installation or use is issued in accordance with section 3123 of this title."" (b) In the absence of an authorizing order, such use shall immediately terminate when the information sought is obtained, when the application for the order is denied or when forty-eight hours have lapsed since the installation of the pen register or trap and trace device, whichever is earlier. (c) The knowing installation or use by any investigative or law enforcement officer of a pen register or trap and trace device pursuant to subsection (a) without application for the authorizing order within forty-eight hours of the installation shall constitute a violation of this chapter. ",11 "CLINTON: Fact Sheet on Russian Statement 4.23.93 The White House Office of the Press Secretary --------------------------------------------------------------- For Immediate Release April 23, 1993 Background Information: Advancing U.S. Relations with Russia and the other New Independent States April 23, 1993 At the Vancouver summit, President Clinton and President Yeltsin agreed to pursue a number of measures designed to implement an economic and strategic partnership between the U.S. and Russia. Since then, President Clinton has directed that a number of steps be taken to move this process forward. The Administration is announcing a number of steps today in order to underscore its deep commitment to a new and closer partnership with Russia based on its government's commitment to reform. Executive Review of Cold War Laws President Clinton and President Yeltsin discussed the desirability of reviewing and updating U.S. laws and regulations to reflect the end of the Cold War. Congress has already acted to revise many laws to reflect the fact that a communist Soviet Union has been replaced by a democratic Russia and other independent states. However, many laws and regulations remain that contain language and restrictions that fail to reflect the end of the Cold War and that unnecessarily undermine relations with Russia and the other new independent states. The President today has ordered an Executive review of laws and regulations so that, where appropriate and consistent with U.S. security and other national interests, such provisions can be revised or removed. He has asked Ambassador-at-large Strobe Talbott to coordinate this review on an expedited basis. The President has indicated that he will welcome congressional efforts to help this review proceed as quickly as possible. This review will weigh all considerations that pertain to revision of such provisions, and the initiation of the review may help to remedy some of the circumstances that have justified such provisions in the past. For example, because the Russians are eager to have their status changed under the Jackson-Vanik legislation, President Yeltsin personally assured President Clinton in Vancouver that he would look into individual cases involving continuing restrictions on emigration from Russia. By addressing such issues, this review can help strengthen the bonds of trust and partnership between the U.S. and Russia, and between the U.S. and the other new independent states. Review of COCOM It is also time to consider expeditiously with America's allies the future of another Cold War institution -- the Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls (COCOM). The United States has begun a thorough review of how to reorient export controls to the post-Cold War world, in which Russia is no longer viewed as a potential adversary, but as a potential ally in combatting the proliferation of sensitive technology. Steps to Improve the Security Relationship The President also has taken steps to move ahead on a range of efforts discussed in Vancouver that can strengthen U.S. security and improve our security relationship with the Russians and the other states. Accelerated Deactivation of Nuclear Weapons In Vancouver, the two Presidents discussed accelerating the process of deactivating nuclear strategic systems scheduled for elimination under the START I Treaty. President Clinton has directed the Department of Defense to complete this process well in advance of the seven year reduction period outlined in START I. In addition, the United States, together with Russia and the other relevant states of the former Soviet Union, will be exploring programs under Nunn-Lugar to help them to accelerate this process. Multilateral Test Ban The two Presidents agreed at Vancouver that negotiations on a multilateral nuclear test ban should commence at an early date, and that the two governments would consult with each other accordingly. The United States looks forward to beginning consultations with Russia, our allies, and other states, on the specific issues related to this negotiation. The United States expects to start this consultative process within the next two months. Detargeting The two Presidents also began a dialogue on the issue of nuclear targeting at Vancouver. As the United States and Russia move into a new relationship of strategic partnership, there is a need to reexamine many of the assumptions and means employed in the past to safeguard U.S. security against a nuclear adversary. The Administration is beginning a comprehensive review of measures that could enhance strategic stability, including recent proposals for detargeting nuclear missiles. Other Measures to Create a New Security Relationship In response to the incident involving a collision between US and Russian submarines last month, Secretary Aspin will be ready to discuss ways to avoid such incidents in the future with Russian Defense Minister Grachev during his visit to the United States in late May. Secretary Aspin will also be prepared to move forward with Defense Minister Grachev in May to develop a combined training program between our two military forces and to prepare for joint exercises in peacekeeping, such as that authorized by the UN Security Council. The United States looks forward to broadening such training and exercises to include other peacekeeping contributors, in order to improve inter-operability, readiness, and planning for multilateral peacekeeping operations. The US and Russia are working together to convene a May Ministerial Meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss proposals for enhancing the UN's peacekeeping capability and to move consideration of the Secretary-General's Agenda for Peace from the discussion to the implementation phase. The U.S. is also working with the Russians to focus specifically on improvements in the financing and management of UN operations. The purpose of these initiatives will be to cooperate on peacekeeping for our participation in UN or CSCE sponsored actions. Multilateral and Bilateral Partnership with Reform Finally, the Administration continues to move ahead on a range of initiatives aimed at striking a partnership with economic and political reformers throughout Russia and the other states. The Administration is continuing work with our G-7 partners to assemble the package of multilateral assistance that Secretaries Bentsen and Christopher recently negotiated in Tokyo. And the Administration is continuing consultation with Congress over the further efforts the U.S. will take to assist the process of reform in Russia and the other states. * * * The Administration believes these steps can increase American security while improving the relationship between the U.S. and Russia, and between the U.S. and the other new independent states. -30- ",18 "Re: Dillon puts foot in mouth, film at 11 I have also heard about HCI claiming thant anyone they get an address from is a member. If this is the case their membership rolls are grossly inflated and we should not call them and give them a name and address to add to their already false rolls. Perhaps if you could get a copy of their existing membership, then pretend to be an existing member, do that several thousand times, you could hurt HCI. But names are power. Remeber the NRA uses the fact that it has 3 million paid members in order to flex its muscles. Perhaps politicians don't realize the lying tactics of HCI, wait a minute, HCI learned it from politicians.... Later, Josh ",16 "Re: Israel an Apartheid State? Not Quite. In article <2703@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au>, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes: |> In article <1se68nINNfo2@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes: |> >In article <2681@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au>, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes: |> |> >> There are Arabs in cabinet but look how long it took and to what |> >> insignificant positions they are assigned! And this is based solely |> >> on race not political belief or security as Jewish members of the |> >> same party have always been welcome just not their fellow Arabs. |> |> >First of all, the arab standing in any party, or as any party, is solely |> >dependent upon the amount of political power they can wield effectively. |> |> It is not a question of an individuals standing. When a party puts up an |> Arab for a Cabinet post and that Arab is rejected but the position is given |> to a Jew from the same party we are not talking about power but racism. |> Would you care to deny this has happened on several occasions with Labour |> coalitions? Please cite specific examples where an Arab party member was rejected while a Jewish party member was accepted. If you examine these I am sure you will discover that the Arab party member did not have the power base that his Jewish counterpart had. The party structure in Israel has changed quite a bit insofar as knesset member elections go. Knesset members for most parties are now elected via primaries. The top standing members end up with cabinet posts. This is purely a political power issue. Check the ranking of Arab labor party members, as opposed to Jewsih members and let me know which posts are held by Jews that ranked lower in the party than their Arab fellow electees. Once again, if for arguments sake, all the Arab Israelis were to vote for Labor at the next election, you can rest assured that the number of Arab MKs and cabinet members would increase proportionately to the power shift. |> Not their party - them as *individuals*. Even when they belong to nice |> peaceful Zionist mainstream parties they are not welcome. Arabs are |> excluded on ficitious security grounds which are just an excuse. It |> sure looks like racism to me. You are overlooking the fact that they wield political power as individuals based upon a wider collective power base. |> Arabs are excluded from cabinet, even when they do the things you |> suggest, because they are Arabs. Unless of course you have a better |> reason? I am happy to listen to any good reason why a leftist Jew |> is less of a security risk than a leftist Arab from the same party. |> Look at the present cabinet. The reasoning I see at work is purely political. As far as security goes I think that some serious gaffs were made by right wing Jews as well - e.g. Sharon. -- Shai Guday | Stealth bombers, OS Software Engineer | Thinking Machines Corp. | the winged ninja of the skies. Cambridge, MA | ",17 "Re: Opel owners? In article cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes: >gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes: > >>I'm looking for information on Opel cars. Now you ask, which model? >>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater, >>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking. My >>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition, >>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run >>for a while. Does anyone have any info on these cars? The engine >>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and >>I am quite interested in it. >>Thanks! >>Darren Gibbons >>gibbonsa@sfu.ca > > This would be the manta, would it not??? Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader???? > > Chintan Amin > llama@uiuc.edu If it looks like a miniature corvette it would be an opel GT,the headlights are flipped over by pulling a lever inside.> >-- >Chintan Amin mail: llama@uiuc.edu >*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA******** ",7 "Re: Die Koresh Die! In article <1r04h8$q5a@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> tim@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Tim Tyler) writes: > I was hoping that --however the situation was resolved-- the >property would remain intact, so the gov't could sell it to help pay for the >hundreds of thousands of dollars of expenses incurred having to babysit >Krazy Koresh & his flock of sheep. > In some South American countries, after political undesirables disappeared, the family would get a notice of death and a bill for the disposal of the body. You apparently think that would be a good idea. The Federal Government initiated this action against Koresh and his followers, surrounded them for 51 days, engaged in psychological warfare, used heavy military equipment against US citizens on US soil; and now that the compound caught fire while they were pumping in CS gas after knocking holes in the building; disavows all responsibility. Big Brother is NOT always right. *** Paul Eric Stoufflet *** Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center *** internet: pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu *** All opinions are my own ",16 "Re: God, morality, and massacres JEK@cu.nih.gov () James Kiefer writes: (stuff deleted) [First point. What they are doing is wrong, just as what Joseph's brothers did was wrong, just as what Judas did was wrong. They intend it for evil. If God somehow brings good out of it, that does not make them any less subject to just condemnation and punishment. Second point. Of course, God will bring good out of it. But not the same good that He would have brought if the Serbians had refrained from the sins of robbery and rape and murder. Nor does the good He purposes excuse us from the duty of doing what is right.] So what you're saying then, is that God exercises direct control, or influence upon humanity. He doesn't control our every thought or action, but takes what we do, whether it be intended for evil or not, and turns it into something good. It seems to me, that this idea conflicts with the belief that God gave humans FREE WILL. As far as I can determine, it is impossible to reconcile these two different ideas. If God were to exert his influence upon anyone or anything at anytime, he would be impeding upon someone's free will. Unless, of course, you believe that God did not give us complete and unabated free will, but rather, some sort of conditional free will. Something that allows us to make our own choices and control our own lives except when God wants to use us to fulfill some good purpose of his own by ""hardening our heart"" or controlling us in some other way. I hear alot of people who look at various events, mostly catastrophies or things like the AIDS epidemic and make comments about God's will. I have a very difficult time understanding why people believe that God controls anything that happens on this planet. Except, possibly when being asked to through someone's prayer. According to the Bible, Pharoah was going to let Moses' people go after one or two plagues, but God kept hardening his heart so Moses could cast all 7 plagues upon the Egyptians, the last plague causing the death of many innocent children. So then, God impeded upon Pharoah's free will and used him as a puppet. God did this not just to free the Hebrews, but to free them in some sort of a grand fashion. I suppose from the Hebrew's point of view, this could be seen as turning something bad into good, but I'm sure the Egyptians didn't see it this way. All of your examples of how God turned something bad into something good are based upon showing favortism to one group of people over another. After all, it's only good based upon your point of view. Why does God, who is supposed to be the god of all of humanity, play favorites? ",15 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? In article <1r7fp6INNsua@mojo.eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >In article <1r6tscINN5bd@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> chyang@engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang) writes: >>In article <21APR199323231675@utkvx.utk.edu> ljones@utkvx.utk.edu (Leslie Jones) writes: >>> >>>A CNN factiod in the last few months stated that 40% of all the computers >>>in the U.S. are left on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't recall >>>CNN's source. >>> >> >> Yeah, but they probably included industries and educational institutions >>that uses mostly work stations (SUNs, DEC, IBM RS600... etc etc) Which turns >>monitor off if left untouched for 5 min. > >None of the SUNs, DECs, or RS6000s I've used have turned off the >monitor automatically. > > Maybe you should contact your schools officials and make them consider installing the necessary softwares or hardwares that allows the Unix works stations to shuts off its monitor when left untouched. It does save a lot of energy. - Chung Yang > >-- >Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu >Some news readers expect ""Disclaimer:"" here. >Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. >(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice) ",4 "CNN for sale Bill Vojak: BV>I read in the paper yestarday that Ted Turner wants to ""trim"" down BV>his media holdings and is putting CNN up for sale. The #1 potential BV>bidder? TIME/Warner of course. Sigh . . . . . Just what we need. :-( Maybe now's the time for us, the NRA, GOA, CCRTKBA, SAF, et al to band together and buy CNN as *our* voice. Wouldn't that be sumpin....broadcast the truth for a change and be able to air a favorable pro-gun item or two.... --- . OLX 2.2 . There is no way they can get over here! A. Maginot ---- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ye Olde Bailey BBS 713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis) | | Houston,Texas yob.sccsi.com Home of alt.cosuard | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",16 "Re: Janet Reno killed the Waco children In article fern@camelot.bradley.edu (Jill Rosencrans) writes: >In <1993Apr20.153450.27407@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes: > >>Janet Reno killed the Waco children. She is responsible for >>their deaths. She should resign immediately. She should have >>understood that David Koresh was a madman who would do anything >>against the children if he became provoked. All the warning >>signs were there and she ignored them. She provoked Koresh >>into killing the children. > >she ""provoked"" koresh? excuse me, but David Koresh killed >the inhabitants of that compound, not a gov't official. These people >were controlled by koresh...he killed them a long time ago >when he refused to release the children and other ""hostages"" as you >call them in your comparison. This is the first I hear that Koresh refused to release someone. In fact, a lot of people, including children, came out during the stand-off. How do you know Koresh killed his followers? The FBI said he had had no such plans (and they had the place bugged), Koresh's attorney said the same thing, and the survivors claimed that the fire was started by goverment agents. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",18 "Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. In article jhart@agora.rain.com (Jim Hart) writes: > >If anybody has a strong claim to control of the the night sky, it is >astronomers. Check out the common law. In the days when wild lands >weren't scarce, pioneers laid claim to the land by putting it to >use, eg clearing and growing a crop. Even trespassers can lay claim to >the right of passage if if they've done it for long enough and the >owners have not complained or taken steps to stop them. Usage >begets property rights. > >Astronomers have been using the night sky for thousands of years -- >they own it. >(eg light polluters), they will lose their common-law right of ownership. > >Another consequence of their ownership is that they are free to sell >it. Now, astronomers need money for their work. If light >polluting billboards and mirrors go up, they will need even >more money to buy extra image processing equipment, filters, >space telescopes etc. to get around the problem. > >So, as long as we can define who ""astronomers"" are (eg do >""they"" include amateur astronomers? Nature lovers?) >we can set up a system of voluntary consensus to solve this >dispute, instead invoking bans, regulations, etc. enforced >by bribed politicians at the point of a gun (why do folks always >think of that sordid solution, ""we ought to pass a law"", to >solve problems first instead of as a last resort when other >methods have failed?) > [Stuff deleted] > This proposal certainly needs work, but how about working on >these kind of ideas first before writing ""there ought to be a law"" >letters to our Congresscritters: let's give noncoercive consensus, via >the free market, a chance to solve this problem. > >Jim Hart >jhart@agora.rain.com Would Mr. Hart please explain how one could get every nation on earth and every corporation to agree that astronomers own the night sky without `coercion'. Remember that not every nation follows the English common law. In most countries, for most of history, it was probably true that the rulers `owned' everything not explicitly owned by individuals. Even in North America, where by the principle enunciated, the aboriginal inhabitants should have owned everything, when new arrivals wanted to use land and resources, they just took it over. In case Mr. Hart hasn't noticed, there is currently a brutal war going on in Bosnia about who owns what. Of course, if some friendly super power were to give an international astronomy organization some anti-satelite missiles and also agree to defend it if attacked, such a proposal might work, but it would hardly be non-coercive. Some of us nutty environmentalists think it might make sense first to try to mobilize public opinion against advertising in space and also to use governmental actions (like taxing power, for example) to discourage them. This of course would be too coercive for Mr. Hart. Leonard Evens len@math.nwu.edu 708-491-5537 Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208 ",14 "Sale -- Fiber Optic Modems, RF Modem, etc -- Best Offer PLease take these and use them. Take advantage of me... I really don't know what they are worth. Qty 2 - Canoga Perkins Fiber Optic Modems, Model 2250, RS-422 Interface, appear new. I have powered up but that's all, I have not used them and I cannot tell you whether they work or not. Make Offer......... Qty 1 - ISC Datacom RF Modem, Model 1056-TX1-RX5-SM-120, Interface RS-449, Internal Fan, powers up fine but otherwise condition unknown, Phone # for the company is 408-747-0300. Make Offer ............ Qty 1 - Motorola UDS 212 A/D Modem, RS-232 interface appears to work but I have not and cannot check it. Make Offer ............. Thanks and please buy this stuff or it goes out the door Mack mdgoodma@cbda8.apgea.army.mil . ",12 "Slider Position of Vertical Scrollbars I need help positioning the slider of a List widget's horizontal scrollbar. I am displaying the full path of a selected file in a list widget. The horizontal's slider defaults to the left side of the list widget; however, I need the slider on the right side. This is so the user can SEE the file name they selected. I know it's possible, because when files are displayed in a file selection dialog box, the slider is on the right side. Thanking any and all who can help in advance, Rodney F. Clay clay@cs.scarolina.edu ",5 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article , nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) says: > >In rocker@acm.rpi.edu (rocker) writes: > >>In <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) >writes: > >>>If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT >>>""abortion coverage"" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED >>>to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction >>>coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage). > >>You appear to be stunningly ignorant of the underlying concept of health >>insurance. > >Are you any less stunningly ignorant? Have you ever heard of life >insurance premiums some companies give in which nonsmokers are charged >much smaller premiums than smokers? > >Not to mention auto insurance being much cheaper for women under 25 than >for men under 25, because women on the average drive more carefully >than most men--in fact, almost as carefully as I did before I was 25. As many people have mentioned, there is no reason why insurers could not offer a contract without abortion services for a different premium. The problem is that there is no guarantee that this premium would be lower for those who chose this type of contract. Although you are removing one service, that may have feedbacks into other types of covered care which results in a net increase in actuarial costs. For an illustrative example in the opposite direction, it may be possible to ADD services to an insurance contract and REDUCE the premium. If you add preventative services and this reduces acute care use, then the total premium may fall. These words and thoughts are my own. * I am not bound to swear ** ** ** ** * allegiance to the word of any ** ** ** ** ** ** * master. Where the storm carries ** ** ** * me, I put into port and make D. Shea, PSU * myself at home. ",19 "Paul's ""thorn in the side"" Joe Moore writes: > Paul repeatedly talks about the ""thorn"" in his side. Some think > it refers to lust, others pride, but who knows? Whatever the > thorn was, apparently it was not compatible with Christianity, > yet does that make his epistles any less? Paul mentions his ""thorn"" (SKOLOPS, actually a sharp stake) in 2 Corinthians 12:7-9 + And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of + revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of + Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three + times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; + but he said to me, ""My grace is sufficient for you, for my + power is made perfectr in weakness."" He does not explain what it was, but it need not have been a moral problem. One guess is that Paul had a disorder of the eyes. He ordinarily dictated his letters, and then added a personal note and his signature. At the end of the letter to the Galatians, he says, ""See, I am writing in large letters with my own hand,"" or else, ""See what a long letter I have written with my own hand."" If the former translation is adopted, it seems that Paul could not write in the small script of a practiced writer, but needed to make his letters larger, and this suggests eye problems. Again, he says to the Galatians (4:13-15), + You know that it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached + the gospel to you at first; and although my condition was a trial + to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an + angel of God.... For I bear you witness that, if possible, you + would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me. Perhaps this last line means simply, ""You would have done anything for me, not withholding your most precious possessions (your eyes)."" But in that case, we would expect some wording like, ""If I had needed them."" ""If it were possible"" sounds as though the bodily ailment was connected with his eyes. William Barclay, in his volume on Acts, makes a more specific suggestion. Before Paul preached in the highlands of Galatia, he had been preaching in the coastal areas of Asia Minor. If he had had a malarial attack while there, a doctor would have advised him to leave the low country and head for the hills. Malaria might well have given him both severe headaches and blurred vision. Yours, James Kiefer ",15 "Apology (printing) Dear Fellow Usenet Users: I would like to give a formal apology for posting an advertisement about my printing business. I did not intend this to be an advertisement, but rather an offer for people on the usenet, many of whom use printing on a regular basis. I was not aware that this is not ""legal"" on the usenet. I am only trying to put myself through college. For those of you who requested information, I will write to you privately. For those of you who are having fun flooding my mailbox, I think you can grow up. To offer advice is one thing, but to use profanity toward me is another. Thank you, Marc ME9574@albnyvms.bitnet ",6 "Ten Commandments or Ten Discourses? In the course of discussing the Sabbath with some folks, I came across something that was completely new to me, and I thought I'd offer it for comment. To keep this as brief as possible, let me state my observation as a declarative statement, and then whoever wants to can comment on it. Basically, what I think I've observed is that the phrase ""the Ten Commandments"", as used by Moses, is not a reference to Ex. 20:1-17, but rather a reference to ten distinct discourses from Ex. 20:1 through Ex. 31:18. That is, the phrase ""the Ten Commandments"" should more accurately be translated ""the Ten Discourses"", of which the passage we call the ""Ten Commandments"" is really only the first. I'm not completely convinced that the above is true, but for purposes of discussion, let me argue it as though I was sure. Arguments supporting the above idea: 1) There aren't really ten commandments in Ex. 20:1-17. In order to get 10 commandments, you have to get two of them out of verses 3-6, and the verses themselves do not support such a division because they are all about not worshipping other gods. That is, verse 3 commands to have no other gods, and verse 5 commands to not worship the idols mentioned in verse 4. You can't violate verses 5-6 without violating verse 3, indicating that the whole passage is one command, and leaving us with only Nine ""Commandments"". I could go on at length about this, but for now I'll just stop with this summary. 2) There ARE ten speeches between Ex 20:1 (the beginning of the traditional ""Ten Commandments"") and Ex 31:18 (where God actually gives Moses the two tablets with the Ten Commandments/Discourses written on them). I break these ten down as follows: 20:1-17; 20:22-26; 21:1-23:33; 25:1-30:10; 30:11-16; 30:17-21; 30:22-33; 30:34-38; 31:1-11; and 31:12-18. In most cases, each of these passages begins with some variation of the phrase, ""And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying..."" The exception is Ex. 21:1, which begins ""Now these are the ordinances which you are to set before them..."" 3) The word translated ""commandments"" in the phrase ""the Ten Commandments"" isn't really the word for ""commandment"", its the word for a speech, or an utterance. It's a word often used for longer discourses rather than individual statements; for instance, when combined with the word 'yom' (day), this word is translated ""Chronicles"" in such phrases as ""now the rest of the acts of so-and-so, are they not written in the Chronicles of x?..."" The word for ""commandment"" is freely used throughout the books of Moses, and perhaps it is significant that when Moses spoke of the Ten X's, he appears to have avoided the word for commandment and chosen instead a word associated with discourses longer than just a single command. 4) God tells Moses that He is going to give him the stone tablets ""with the law and the commandments"" (Ex 24:12), yet He does not give Moses the tablets until He has finished all ten discourses on Mount Sinai. If the Ten Commandments were only Ex. 20:1-17, it is not immediately clear why God would wait several days and nine more discourses before giving these tablets to Moses. On the other hand, if we have the Ten Discourses written on the tablets, then it makes perfect sense that God would not give Moses the tablets until He had finished delivering all Ten Discourses. 5) When Moses did get the tablets, he found that both tablets were written on both sides (Ex. 32:15). If these Ten ""Commandments"" were only the first 17 verses of Ex. 20, God would have had to have written in LARGE letters! Not that He couldn't have, of course, but it does seem more likely to me that this is a reference to two tablets containing ten discourses written in normal- sized letters. 6) In II Cor. 3, Paul seems to specifically single out the ""commandments written on stone"" as being the ""ministry of death"", ""that which is fading away,"" and ""the ministry of condemnation."" With the possible exception of the commandment about the Sabbath, it is difficult to see why Paul would refer to the commands in Ex. 20:1-17 as being temporary, ""fading away""-type commandments. This is less of a problem if the stone tablets should happen to have included all of the commandments from Ex 20 through Ex 31. Arguments against this idea: The main argument against this idea, aside from the fact that it contradicts a long-standing tradition, is that in Dt 5:22, Moses says, after quoting the commands in Ex. 20:1-17, ""These words the LORD spoke...and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me."" This appears to identify the words just quoted as being the only contents of the two stone tablets. That was my first impression, anyway. However, after some thought, I noted that a great deal hinges on how you understand the phrase ""These words."" If Moses meant ""These words *which I have just related to you* were spoken by God"" etc., then that would mean that only the traditional ""Ten Commandments"" were on the stone tablets. If, however, Moses was making a parenthetical comment--""These words *which I AM NOW telling you* were spoken by God"" etc.--then that's quite different. I did note that in the Dt 5 account, Moses tells of being given the stone tablets BEFORE telling of the people asking Moses to represent them before God, whereas in the Exodus account, the people asked this of Moses between the first and second discourses, several days BEFORE God gave Moses the stone tablets. This reinforces the idea that Moses' remarks in Dt 5:22ff were intended as a parenthetical remark, rather than a strictly chronological account of when God wrote what, and at what point He stopped adding to what was on the tablets. Summary: all things considered, I find it somewhat more likely that the nine commands in Ex 20 are really only the first of what Moses regarded as the Ten Discourses of God. I don't know if anybody has ever espoused this idea before; it's brand-new to me. So, while I lean towards accepting it, I would be very interested in hearing any comments and criticisms anyone may care to offer. - Mark ",15 "Re: Will Italy be the Next Domino to Fall? In article , ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes: |>Will Italy be the Next Domino to Fall? |> |> |> |>Socialism may have collapsed in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Disunion |>but it lingers on in Western Europe and the United States. It remains |>the primary ideology in the hearts and minds of the liberal academia |>and media. But all the political correctness they can muster may not be |>sufficient to hold back the economic forces that threaten to spread |>socialism's collapse from the second world to the first. Indeed, it is |>becoming more apparent every day that socialism may not even survive |>the turn of the century. Ed of course has never demonstrated remarkable knowlege of socialism, or any other political system come to that. |>While the Swedes have already discarded their ""third way"" and the |>French have made history by turning out the Socialist Party in a |>record-setting defeat, it is Italy that appears most precariously |>on the edge of its political existence. That leaves Germany, Japan and the UK as examples of a country where the right wing government is on the verge of collapse. Oh and of course the USA which just elected a socialist government :-) |>Italy, today, is a basket-case even by European standards. It has |>introduced 17 new taxes in 5 months and public-sector revenue is at or |>near the 50% of GDP mark. Etc, unfortunately you can't pin this on the left or the right, both are to blame. Both sides are equally deep into the corruption scandal. The only untained party is the northern league which is a bunch of nationalist separatists and the communist party which has collapsed. |>In spite of this political gluteny, it has |>an annual deficit exceeding the sum of all other EC countries and a |>public debt 2.5 times that of Latin America. Italy is understandably |>having serious trouble selling its treasury bonds in the markets. And |>while Italy is an extreme case, it is anything but unique; all |>European governments appear headed in the same direction in spite of |>their nominally non-socialist governments. |> |>Unfortunately, Europeans being, well, Europeans, it is very unlikely |>that they will discover American-style liberty. Instead, they will |>likely lurch from socialism to fascism as quickly as they had moved |>from fascism to socialism never pausing along the way to reasseses the |>role of government, itself. I hope I am wrong. Ed should take a look at the budget deficit Regan and Bush created together before he starts to make claims about europe collapsing based on the budget deficits here. None of them are serious on the USA scale. And here in Europe we have zero interest in Ed-Ipser type freed thank you. We do not want our countries to be run by a narrow elite of rich lawyers for the benefit of the super wealthy. We are quite happy with social democracy and despite the fuss made in Time and Newsweek there is remarkably little being done to reverse the social welfare reforms brought in by socialism. The problem with socialism is that it started with the aims of free education and health care and provision of the welfare state. This has been achieved across the whole of Europe, only the USA is struggling to catch up. The problem for socialism is what to do now it has succeeded. |>Nobody ever claimed that the collapse of socialism would be pretty. |>The decline of the nation-state will probably lead first to anarchy |>since politicians always cut essential services before pork. Los |>Angeles has rampant crime and frantically waits for the next wave of |>riots but it has a spanking new subway that nobody wants to use and |>which, like every other public transit system in the world, will never |>be economically viable. (If you were trying to extort tax payers, |>which would you cut first, mass transit or police protection?) Ed starts to discus LA, presumably he thinks that it is in Europe. On the other hand he most probably hasn't heard of a European city. |>Thus does the world hurtle toward chaos even as the 21st century |>approaches. Rather the opposite. What is happening in Italy is that the communist party has collapsed. This has meant that the grand coalition between right and left wing parties to keep out the communists has also collapsed. The magistrates have seized this opportunity to crack down hard on fraud and corruption and have arrested half the politicians. The fact that the socialists are in charge this week is incidental, the right is into the corruption just as baddly. What looks likely to happen is the fringe parties are going to do much better in the next election. Most of the parliamentary deputies are going to get replaced and the parties are going to be forced to look to people who are free of any hint of corruption. Look out for a parliament of Pavarotti's and porn stars. Phill Hallam-Baker ",18 "Re: Kidney Stones A student told me today that she has been diagnosed with kidney stones, a cyst on one kidney, and a kidney infection. She was upset because her condition had been misdiagnosed since last fall, and she has been ill all this time. During her most recent doctor's appointment at her parents' HMO clinic, she said that about FORTY! x-rays were made of her kidney. When she asked why so many x-rays were being made, she was told by a technician that they need to see the area from different views, but she says that about five x-rays were made from EACH angle. She couldn't help feeling that something must be wrong with the procedure or something. She is a pre-med student and feels she could have understood what was happening if someone would have explained. When nobody would, she got worried. Also, she is told that thre are 300! surgery patients ahead of her and that they cannot do surgery until August or so. It is now April... She is supposed to rest a lot and drink fluids. But she has to go to classes. She wonders why they have given her no medicine. She plans to call back her doctor's office / clinic and try to get answers to these questions. But I told her I would also write in to sci.med and see what I could find out about why there were so many x-rays and whether it seems o.k. to wait in line 3 or more months for surgery for something like this or whether she should be looking elsewhere for her care. She does plan to get a second opinion, too. I will pass info on to her. It never hurts to get information from more than one source. You can e-mail me or post. Thanks. Alice ",13 "soft contact lens cleaning unit (heater) My girlfriend switched to gas-permeable hard lenses and no longer needs a one year old soft contact lens cleaning unit. It's one of those where you pop in the lens case filled with solution and the lenses, press the lighted timer button and let it cook. No stains (of course -- if you've owned one of these, you understand), maybe a little dust on the cover. Best cash offer, or equivalent worth in used CD's or Betamax tapes (some blanks or a couple of pre-recorded movies/concerts). gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",6 "New to Motorcycles... Hello everyone. I'm new to motorcycles so no flames please. I don't have my bike yet so I need a few pieces of information: 1) I only have about $1200-1300 to work with, so that would have to cover everything (bike, helmet, anything else that I'm too ignorant to know I need to buy) 2) What is buying a bike going to do to my insurance? I turn 18 in about a month so my parents have been taking care of my insurance up till now, and I need a comprehensive list of costs that buying a motorcycle is going to insure (I live in Washington DC if that makes a difference) 3) Any recommendations on what I should buy/where I should look for it? 4) In DC, as I imagine it is in every other state (OK, OK, we're not a state - we're not bitter ;)), you take the written test first and then get a learners permit. However, I'm wondering how one goes about learning to ride the bike proficiently enough so as to a) get a liscence and b) not kill oneself. I don't know anyone with a bike who could teach me, and the most advice I've heard is either ""do you live near a field"" or ""do you have a friend with a pickup truck"", the answers to both of which are NO. Do I just ride around my neighborhood and hope for the best? I kind of live in a residential area but it's not suburbs. It's still the big city and I'm about a mile from downtown so that doesn't seem too viable. Any stories on how you all learned? Thanks for any replies in advance. -Greg Humphreys :wq ^^^ Meant to do that. (Damn autoindent) -- Greg Humphreys | ""This must be Thursday. I never National Institutes of Health| could get the hang of Thursdays."" gregh@alw.nih.gov | (301) 402-1817 | -Arthur Dent ",8 "Re: Pregnency without sex? I heard a great Civil War story... A guy on the battlfield is shot in the groin, the bullet continues on it's path, and lodges in the abdomen of a female spectator. Lo and behold.... As the legend goes, both parents survived, married, and raised the child. -- ""Death. Taxes. Math. Jazz."" - Wean Hall Bathroom Graffiti Gabriel Underwood gabe+@cmu.edu ",13 "Re: How universal are phones these days? In article wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes: >Otherwise, it is technically no problem to connect a foreign >phone to either the German or Swedish phone system. >OTOH neither you nor I would ever try that, as it is of course >illegal. Oh yes, the good ol' deutsche Bundespost. Shortly after moving to Germany, someone told me that ""POST"" is an acronym for the ""Public Organization for the Suppression of Technology"". Stimmt, oder? I miss a lot of things about Germany (yes, including the Bier vending machines at work that were SUBSIDIZED by the firm), but the phone system is not one of them. Tom Spraggins tas@virginia.edu ",12 "Full Color Image Editor for SGI Workstations I am happy to announce the first public release of the bit program, an INTERACTIVE, FULL COLOR image viewer and editor based on SGI GL. Besides typical touchup tasks, such as crop, rotate, smooth, etc, bit offers some unique features not available in similar programs, such as text and vector support and the separation of text and image. The following is the relevant sections from the man page. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Pre-Release of May, 1993 BIT(1L) NAME bit - Bitmap Image Touchup for SGI Workstations DESCRIPTION bit is an interactive full color image viewer and editor based on Silicon Graphics GL. As a full color program, bit handles images of both 24bits and color index in a natural and efficient manner. As an image viewer, bit allows list of images to be displayed in their original type (24bits or color index) in any order and in any of the many built-in styles of display. You can walk up and down the list using mouse and keyboard, or you can let bit do the walk for you (The SlideShow). With the pan and zoom features, large images can be viewed in full without being limited by the window or screen size. As an image editor, bit performs a large number of image editing and processing tasks accurately and efficiently. It keeps information loss at any stage of the editing process at an absolute minimum by performing subpixel sampling automatically while conserving the input image type whenever possible to avoid unnecessary promotion and/or quantization of input images. You can also cut a piece of an image and paste it into another. In addition, arbitrarily colored and sized text and simple geometric figures can be rendered on top of an image for annotation with the option to make them part of the bitmap or output separately to take advantage of the higher printer resolutions (e.g. PostScript). Bit can also be used as a graphical user interface to many existing image processing programs by defining external bindings which in essence turn command line oriented programs into bit subfunctions and can be accessed by a press of a button, and best of all, the processed image will be read back and displayed immediately. Convolution using exter- nally defined matrices of arbitrary order can be performed dynamically giving great flexibility in processing an image. FEATURES Bit performs all of its image manipulations interactively with a continuous progress report, and once the processing is complete, the processed image will be displayed. Current features include o Rotates an image by an arbitrary angle with the option of anti-aliasing and filling the ""rotated out"" region with an arbitrary color. o Scales an image by arbitrary factors in x- and/or y-directions with the option of subpixel sampling. o Renders text of arbitrary color, size or orientation on top of an image with the option of rendering directly into the raster or saving the text and raster separately, such as into a PostScript file, to take advantage of a higher printer resolution. Besides normal text strings, many predefined special symbols can be input conveniently as in TeX(1), e.g., $\alpha$\small$\beta$ produces Greek alphabet alpha followed by a slightly smaller Greek alphabet beta. o Presents graphically the histogram of an image. o Performs arbitrary 1-to-1 pixel transformation. The transformation function can be specified interactively and can be of arbitrary forms. Further, the transformation can be applied to RGB channels separately or simultaneously and to the entire image or a portion of it. Many difficult tasks, such as thresholding, can be accomplished rather easily by 1-to-1 transformation in combination with the avai- lability of graphical histograms of the image. o Places simple geometric figures (SGFs), e.g., arrows, circles, trian- gles etc., of arbitrary color, size and orientation into an image at arbitrary locations addressed either in absolute pixels or in some user definable coordinate system units, with the option of rendering directly into the raster or save the sgfs and raster separately (e.g, PostScript file). All SGFs can be scaled in x- and y-directions independently or simultaneously (this is how to get an ellipse from a circle). o Performs edge detection. In combination with image histograms and 1- to-1 transformation, very accurate result can be obtained. o Performs histogram equalization. o Performs convolution with externally defined (square) matrices of arbitrary order. o Crops a rectangular portion of an image. o Cuts and pastes across images. o Magnifies any portion of an image by any amount. o Displays a list of images in sequence with a user specifiable pause interval between images. (SlideShow) o Measures RGB intensities of a pixel at any location or all pixels along an arbitrary line with the result presented as RGB intensities or as an intensity vs. distance plot. o Performs image type conversions. o Converts image formats. o Smoothes an image (Special convolution). o Filters an image by external programs and read the filtered image back and display it. o Modify an individual pixel's RGB values. o Performs FFT on the entire image or a portion of it and display the resulting power spectra. o Spray and brush paint in full color (unavailable in this pre-release). SUPPORTED FORMATS o IRIS RGB, native to SGI IRIS o JPEG(JFIF) format o CompuServ GIF o PNM(Portable Any Map), including PPM, PGM and PBM. o XBM (X Window Bitmap) o TIFF o PostScript(Write only) Hardware requirements: --------------------------------------------------------------- Any SGI workstation that supports RGBmode(), including indigoes. Where to get it: --------------------------------------------------------------- anonymous ftp to monte.svec.uh.edu /pub/bit/bitxxx.tar.Z where xxx is the version number. Current version is 0.73 Read src/01Readme for installation instructions after unpacking Acknowledgement: --------------------------------------------------------------- JPEG support is based on the Independent JPEG groups's library Version 4. FORMS library, developed by Mark Overmars, is used for GUI. Both JPEG and FORMS library are included in this release. --------------------------------------------------------------- Bit is the program you will ever need to view and annotate images; The built-in editing features will satisfy most of your editing needs. In addition, the external filter and dynamical kernel will utilize any program you already have. So try it (and you will like it). As always, any comments/bug reports are welcome. ",1 "Re: LCIII->PowerPC? mirsky@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (David Joshua Mirsky) writes: >Hi. I own an LCIII and I recently heard an interesting rumor. >I heard that the LCIII has a built in slot for a PowerPC chip. >Is this true? I heard that the slot is not the same as the PDS >slot. Is that true? Don't believe the hype. There is no such thing as a PowerPC slot. -Hades ",4 "Re: plus minus stat In article 9088@blue.cis.pitt.edu, jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald) writes: >Jagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points. And take it from >an informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than >Jaromir Jagr. This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a >decent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some). Bowman tended to overplay Francis at times because he is a Bowman-style player. He plays hard at all times, doesn't disregard his defensive responsibilities and is a good leader. Bowman rewarded him be increasing his ice time. Jagr can be very arrogant and juvenile and display a ""me first"" attitude. This rubbed Bowman the wrong way and caused him to lose some ice time. Throughout the year, Francis consistently recieved more ice time than Jagr. Althouhg I have never seen stats on this subject, I am pretty sure that Jagr had more points per minute played that Francis. When you add to that Jagr's better +/- rating, I think it becomes evident that Jagr had a better season- not that Francis had a bad one. Gregmeister ",10 "Psygnosis CD-I titles (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???) In article <1993Apr20.130854.27039@rchland.ibm.com> ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes: > > Anyway, still with 15Mhz, you need sprites for a lot of tricks for >making cool awesome games (read psygnosis). Speaking of Psygnosis, they have licensed games to Philips Interative Media International for CD-I. The following was recently posted in a message in the CD-I section of the Multimedia Forum. ""Seventh Guest has been licensed by Virgin Games to Philips Interactive Media International for worldwide CD-I rights. Were also licensed to P.I.M.I. Litil Divil from Gremlin Graphics (UK) and Microcosm from Psygnosis (UK). Those three titles will be adapted on CD-I using the full potential of the FMV cartridge, meaning, using the additional memory as well as the motion video capabilities. Those titles have been negociated in Europe but will be available worldwide. Also, Lemmings 1 & 2 have been licensed from Psygnosis, as well as Striker Soccer from Rage (UK)."" I don't know when these titles will be available or when work on them even started (so don't expect your CD-I retailer to have them yet). There was also some mention of future Nintendo CD-I games in an issue of the UK magazine ERT - Mario Hotel was mentioned as having 75 levels. Mark [Although I work for Philips, I don't work on CD-I or multimedia. The above info is just provided in good faith from what I've read and does not represent any statement from Philips] ****************************************************************************** Mark Samson: Information Technology Group, Philips Research Laboratories, Cross Oak Lane, Redhill, Surrey RH1 5HA Tel(my Ext): 0293 815387 Tel(labs): 0293 785544 Telex: 877261 Fax: 0293 776495 Email:- SERI: samson@prlhp0 UNIX: samson@prl.philips.co.uk Binary files: packages@prlhp0 ****************************************************************************** ",1 "Should patients read package inserts (PDR)? In article <1993Mar29.113528.930@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes: >Hmmmm... here's one place where I really think the patient ought to take more >responsibility for him- or herself. There is absolutely no reason why you >can't ask the pharmacist filling the prescription for the ""Physicians' Package >Insert"" for the medication when you pick it up at the pharmacy. Make sure to >tell the pharmacist that you want the ""Physicians' Package Insert"" *NOT* the If people are going to do this, I really wish they would tell me first. I'd be happy to go over the insert (in the PDR) with them and explain everything. All too many patients read the insert and panic and then on the next visit sheepishly admit they were afraid to take the drug and we are starting over again at square one. Some of them probably didn't even come back for followup because they didn't want to admit they wouldn't take the drug or thought I was trying to kill them or something. What people don't understand about the inserts is that they report every adverse side effect ever reported, without substantiating that the drug was responsible. The insert is a legal document to slough liability from the manufacturer to the physician if something was to happen. If patients want to have the most useful and reliable information on a drug they would be so much better off getting hold of one of the AMA drug evaluation books or something similar that is much more scientific. There are very few drugs that someone hasn't reported a death from taking. Patients don't realize that and don't usually appreciate the risks to themselves properly. I'm sure Herman is going to ""go ballistic"", but so be it. Another problem is that probably most drugs have been reported to cause impotence. Half the males who read that will falsely assume it could permanently cause them to lose sexual function and so will refuse to take any drug like that. This can be a real problem for PDR readers. There needs to be some way of providing patients with tools geared to them that allow them to get the information they need. I am involved in a research project to do that, with migraine as the domain. It involves a computer system that will provide answers to questions about migraine as well as the therapy prescribed for the patient. For common illnesses, such as migraine and hypertension, this may help quite a bit. The patient could spend as much time as needed with the computer and this would then not burden the physician. Clearly, physicians in large part fail to answer all the questions patients have, as is demonstrated over and over here on the net where we get asked things that the patients should have found out from their physician but didn't. Why they didn't isn't always the physician's fault either. Sometimes the patients are afraid to ask. They won't be as afraid to ask the system, we hope. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Nords 3 - Habs 2 in O.T. We was robbed!! In article <1993Apr19.141842.18456@newshub.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes: >In article <18APR93.25909598.0086@VM1.MCGILL.CA> JBE5 writes: >>Aargh! >> >>Paul Stewart is the worst and most biased ref. presently in the NHL. >>He called a total of 4 penalties on the Habs and one on the Nordiques. >>The Nords' penalty came in O.T. Stewart, being an ex-Nordique himself, >>was looking to call penalties on the Habs while letting the Nords >>get away with murder...WE WAS ROBBED!!!! > >No. Patrick Roy is the reason the game was lost, and Ron Hextall is the >reason Quebec won. Everybody said it would come down to goaltending, that >goaltending was the key, etc etc. Well, the key doesn't quite fit if you're >Montreal. I don't buy this at all. Roy was the reason the game was tied... and that would *not* have been the case had Dionne kept his cool. Hextall gave up 2 very questionable goals himself ... Both Dionne's and Bellows' shots were misplayed by Hextall, but just because his gaffes were early in the game, no one seems to care. Roy stood on his head for the first 15 minutes of the game when the Nords were rushing from end-to-end. Kamensky's mini-break after the tying goal and the first shot by Young in OT were both excellent chances stopped by Roy. Roy outplayed Hextall for most of the game, but Roy becomes the villain and Hextall the hero because Roy's team didn't make full use of their opportunities. Hextall, on the other hand, had a lot of lucky bounces ... he played very well, but the Haller shot off the post in OT, the rebound bouncing over Bellows' stick, the Brunet breakaway, the 3 chances for LeClair ... all those opportunities were *not* finished off by Montreal, and it cost them. Hextall wasn't particularly brilliant on those plays ... >Blaming Stewart is just an >excuse to avoid facing the fact that Roy allowed what was one of the worst >goals he could possibly allow. He even saw the whole shot, dammit. Sure, no excuse ... but it was just the 1 goal. The timing stank, but against an explosive team like Quebec, they gave them 1 opportunity too many with a powerplay that was totally unnecessary. >Montreal played a solid game (although they still don't know how to clear >traffic in front of the net; the loss of Schneider will hurt even more). I disagree. Roy played well because he wasn't screened the whole night. The defense, for the 1st time this season, played remarkably, keeping Sakic, Nolan, and Sundin out of the slot most of the night. >Normally I would say that any team that blows a 2-goal lead with less than >five, let alone two, minutes to go in regulation time IN A PLAYOFF GAME >ESPECIALLY needs to be smacked upside their collective heads. But I don't >think this was a team loss (although Keane should have been able to clear >the zone just prior to the first Quebec goal). This most certainly was a team loss... Leclair missed his opportunities, as did Bellows and Brunet. Dionne took a bad penalty. Damphousse and Lebeau were *silent*. Carbonneau and Savard were a step behind all night. Roy gave up the bad goal. Roy, by no means, can be singled out for this loss. >Roy is paid big money to >play. He looked like a player in an industrial league on Sakic's shot. And Hextall didn't on Dionne's goal? Please. Roy is paid big money because that is his value compared to other goalies ... and he still is in the top 5, when you consider the defense, or lack of one, that played in front of him for most of the season. >Demers should start Racicot in the next game. If not that, he should let >the damn team read the papers for the next day or two....and maybe this >article, if possible. The Montreal media is the quickest to heap praise and then hurl derogatory comments against the Habs. They are no better than uninformed fans. Why should they read the papers? They played 58 minutes of ""Burnsian"" hockey to shut down Quebec. All they need tonight, and for the rest of the series is the extra 2. Red Light to face Quebec...rubbish. That's a guaranteed way to end the series 4-0. Who would be taught a lesson by this ? The fans, the media, and Racicot, perhaps. Certainly not the rest of the team. >I didn't think the wrap-around was as bad as the second goal. I also didn't >think Scott Young should have gotten around the defender (can't remember who) >in the first place. But you are correct, it shouldn't have gone in >regardless. If you mean the goal should never have gone in, because there should never have been an OT, then I agree. But the goal itself was a great piece of work by Young. Roy had both the near and far posts covered, but Young flipped the puck up under Roy's arm as he wrapped-around the net ... not a bad goal at all. Yaska ! yaska@eecg.toronto.edu ! Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering Sankar ! ! University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada ",10 "DMQS files for XGA-2 (was Re: CatsEye/X XGA-2! (extra modes?)) (NOTE: The followups are set to comp.os.os2.misc. DMQS files describe monitors and valid modes to be used by the XGA-2 under both Windows and OS/2.) THESE FILES ARE UNSUPPORTED! IBM has nothing to do with these files or this post. It's personal this time (and every time I post -- see the signature). Due to demand and requests, here are some additional DMQS files I've collected for the XGA-2. These files function with the latest revision of the drivers for the XGA-2. Not all these files will work under Windows with the drivers available to the general public at this time. All files will function under the most recent OS/2 2.1 beta and those I've tried have worked under OS/2 2.0+SP. Not all files have been fully tested. THESE FILES ARE UNSUPPORTED! They represent a personal collection, not anything resembling an officially supported set. As a standard disclaimer I would like to point out the following facts: 1) Some of these files may run your adapter out of spec. Doing so can stress the ICs on the card and may result in incorrect operation or in shorter life (how short depends on how much out of spec [boom!] :-). 2) Some of these files may run your adapter in a region that is out of spec for your monitor, resulting in damage to your monitor. 3) You should be knowledgable about your monitor and adapter's ability to use the mode you select. Using these files represents hacking in a very true sense, so practice safe computing and don't play around too much if you don't like the risks and aren't knowledgable about what you're doing. 4) If you feel uncomfortable with all the warnings, use the DMQS files you have or wait until IBM releases official, tested DMQS files. Although you should be aware of warning 2) even with the IBM files. THESE FILES ARE UNSUPPORTED! By using them you may invalidate your warrenty. Not all have been fully tested -- I don't have that many monitors. Installation: unpack in your DMQSPATH environment variable, usually c:\xga$dmqs. Then use the methods described in your XGA-2 installation diskette to change your adapter or settings. Packing: these files have been packed with the latest INFOZIP utility. You will need PKZip 2.x if you don't have the INFOZIP utilities. Submitting: feel free to send me uuencoded versions of your favorite DMQS files for your favorite monitors. I'm always interested in collecting more. 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",2 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH - UPDATE irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: >In article wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes: >>In article nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes: >>> Yeah, as information trickles in... funny how that works... >> >>Funny, yeah, funny how you didn't wait for the FBI spokesdroid >>latest reversal of ""facts"" before proclaiming the BD's burned >>themselves to death. >If you won't believe anything the government says, and the press >is not reliable according to the same logic, then what do you base >your statements on? Wild speculation laced with a healthy dose >of paranoia? It is not a matter of dis-belief but a matter of which of their constantly (and radically) changing stories we are to believe. Steve B. >-- ><><><><><><><><><><> Personal opinions? Why, <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ><> BRENT IRVINE <> yes. What did you think <> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu <> ><><><><><><><><><><> they were?....... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ",16 "Re: Oiler's rumour - Team moving? Press conference next week allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes: - - I heard a story on the local sports news broadcast in Edmonton. - Oiler owner Peter Pocklington will be holding a press conference - next week. While the exact details are not known, it is believed - to concern the Oiler's future. - - Rumour has it that Pocklington signed a tentative lease arrangement - with Copps Collesium in Hamilton. During the press conference, - Pocklington may announce the deal. It is quite possible that - the deal may simply be a way to force Edmonton Northlands to - renegotiate the Oiler lease on the stadium. - - Northlands has offered to buy the Oilers for $65 million earlier, - but the offer was rejected immediately by Pocklington. - - As for me, my opinion is divided... Edmonton has been fairly - supportive of the Oilers. Even though they're a small market - team, they had many sellouts in the 80s. Even with the problems - that the team had this year, they still brought in more fans - than many teams in larger cities did. On the other hand, if - the team does move, there is no place more deserving than - Hamilton. Of course, how would that affect the grand - realignment scheme of Bettman? - Following up on this, the provincial government has been asked by the Opposition to block any deal that Pocklington is offering to Hamilton. The government said that Pock is going nowhere! Why don't I believe the government? Wasn't it Pocklington who wanted to be Tory leader 9 years ago? Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc.(Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) ) (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca) God Save the Queen, God Bless us All!Remember! Jesus saves lives from eternal damnation! Newfoundland, keep good old Clyde, VOTE LIBERAL! ",10 "Re: Concerning God's Morality (was: Americans and Evolution) In article <1993Apr2.155057.808@batman.bmd.trw.com> jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes: [why do babies get diseases, etc.] >What God did create was life according to a protein code which is >mutable and can evolve. Without delving into a deep discussion of >creationism vs evolutionism, Here's the (main) problem. The scenario you outline is reasonably consistent, but all the evidence that I am familiar with not only does not support it, but indicates something far different. The Earth, by latest estimates, is about 4.6 billion years old, and has had life for about 3.5 billion of those years. Humans have only been around for (at most) about 200,000 years. But, the fossil evidence inidcates that life has been changing and evolving, and, in fact, disease-ridden, long before there were people. (Yes, there are fossils that show signs of disease... mostly bone disorders, of course, but there are some.) Heck, not just fossil evidence, but what we've been able to glean from genetic study shows that disease has been around for a long, long time. If human sin was what brought about disease (at least, indirectly, though necessarily) then how could it exist before humans? > God created the original genetic code >perfect and without flaw. And without getting sidetracked into >the theological ramifications of the original sin, the main effect >of the so-called original sin for this discussion was to remove >humanity from God's protection since by their choice A&E cut >themselves off from intimate fellowship with God. In addition, their >sin caused them to come under the dominion of Satan, who then assumed >dominion over the earth... [deletions] >Since humanity was no longer under God's protection but under Satan's >dominion, it was no great feat for Satan to genetically engineer >diseases, both bacterial/viral and genetic. Although the forces of >natural selection tend to improve the survivability of species, the >degeneration of the genetic code tends to more than offset this. Uh... I know of many evolutionary biologists, who know more about biology than you claim to, who will strongly disagree with this. There is no evidence that the human genetic code (or any other) 'started off' in perfect condition. It seems to adapt to its envionment, in a collective sense. I'm really curious as to what you mean by 'the degeneration of the genetic code'. >Human DNA, being more ""complex"", tends to accumulate errors adversely >affecting our well-being and ability to fight off disease, while the >simpler DNA of bacteria and viruses tend to become more efficient in >causing infection and disease. It is a bad combination. Umm. Nah, we seem to do a pretty good job of adapting to viruses and bacteria, and they to us. Only a very small percentage of microlife is harmful to humans... and that small percentage seems to be reasonalby constant in size, but the ranks keep changing. For example, bubonic plague used to be a really nasty disease, I'm sure you'll agree. But it still pops up from time to time, even today... and doesn't do as much damage. Part of that is because of better sanitation, but even when people get the disease, the symptoms tend to be less severe than in the past. This seems to be partly because people who were very susceptible died off long ago, and because the really nasty variants 'overgrazed', (forgive the poor terminology, I'm an engineer, not a doctor! :-> ) and died off for lack of nearby hosts. I could be wrong on this, but from what I gather acne is only a few hundred years old, and used to be nastier, though no killer. It seems to be getting less nasty w/age... > Hence >we have newborns that suffer from genetic, viral, and bacterial >diseases/disorders. Now, wait a minute. I have a question. Humans were created perfect, right? And, you admit that we have an inbuilt abiliy to fight off disease. It seems unlikely that Satan, who's making the diseases, would also gift humans with the means to fight them off. Simpler to make the diseases less lethal, if he wants survivors. As far as I can see, our immune systems, imperfect though they may (presently?) be, must have been built into us by God. I want to be clear on this: are you saying that God was planning ahead for the time when Satan would be in charge by building an immune system that was not, at the time of design, necessary? That is, God made our immune systems ahead of time, knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and their descendents would need to fight off diseases? >This may be more of a mystical/supernatural explanation than you >are prepared to accept, but God is not responsible for disease. >Even if Satan had nothing to do with the original inception of >disease, evolution by random chance would have produced them since >humanity forsook God's protection. Here's another puzzle. What, exactly, do you mean by 'perfect' in the phrase, 'created... perfect and without flaw'? To my mind, a 'perfect' system would be incapable of degrading over time. A 'perfect' system that will, without constant intervention, become imperfect is *not* a perfect system. At least, IMHO. Or is it that God did something like writing a masterpiece novel on a bunch of gum wrappers held together with Elmer's glue? That is, the original genetic 'instructions' were perfect, but were 'written' in inferior materials that had to be carefully tended or would fall apart? If so, why could God not have used better materials? Was God *incapable* of creating a system that could maintain itself, of did It just choose not to? [deletions] >In summary, newborns are innocent, but God does not cause their suffering. My main point, as I said, was that there really isn't any evidence for the explanation you give. (At least, that I'm aware of.) But, I couldn't help making a few nitpicks here and there. :-> Sincerely, Ray Ingles || The above opinions are probably || not those of the University of ingles@engin.umich.edu || Michigan. Yet. ",0 "Trivia question While watching the Penguins/Devils game last night, I saw the ""slash"" that Barrasso took on the neck. This brought to mind the goaltender who had his jugular vein cut by a skate. I think he was a Sabre, but I'm not positive. Does anyone remember/know his name? What has happened to him since? What about the player whose skate cut the goalie? Name? Info? Has this ever happened before in a hockey game? Thanks, Carol Go Pens! ",10 "Re: Tempest The ""low radiation"" claims one sees on monitors these days pertain to allegedly harmful electromagnetic emissions, which does not necessarily have anything to do wtih TEMPEST security. (I think the alleged hazard is BS, but that's another topic.) ",11 "Re: Do we need the clipper for cheap security? pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) writes: > If the Clipper chip can do cheap crypto for the masses, obviously one > could do the same thing WITHOUT building in back doors. I agree. So why is Cylink the only (and expensive) game in town? Note: I think Cylink is great, and if my boss would double my salary, I'd buy a bunch of their stuff :). One thing that Clipper offers is interoperability, at a higher degree of security than we currently have in non-proprietary voice encryption systems. This means it will be cheaper than anyone's proprietary scheme, and easier to deploy. This is, of course, either a bug or a feature depending on how you look at it :). > Indeed, even without special engineering, you can construct a good > system right now. A standard codec chip, a chip to do vocoding, a DES > chip, a V32bis integrated modem module, and a small processor to do > glue work, are all you need to have a secure phone. Great! Where can I buy it? Another note: If ""Clipper"" increases the incentive to bring stronger encryption to the mass market, all the better. It's far overpriced at the moment. > Yes, cheap crypto is good -- but we don't need it from the government. I don't care where we *need* to get it from, I care where we *can* get it from, and whether it will interoperate with everyone else. > Indeed, were it not for the government doing everything possible to > stop them, Qualcomm would have designed strong encryption right in to > the CDMA cellular phone system they are pioneering. Were it not for the > NSA and company, cheap encryption systems would be everywhere. As it > is, they try every trick in the book to stop it. Had it not been for > them, I'm sure cheap secure phones would be out right now. You can build them right now as long as you don't want to export (a restriction I firmly oppose). The only thing stopping people from making cheap encryption is greed: they want a lock on the market. > They aren't the ones making cheap crypto available. They are the ones > keeping cheap crypto out of people's hands. When they hand you a > clipper chip, what you are getting is a mess of pottage -- your prize > for having traded in your birthright. Oh, come on. Only if you trust it farther than it deserves. A Clipper phone *IS NOT* a substitute for a Cylink phone, or a STU-III. It's a substitute for the ""voice scramblers"" advertised in the back of Radio Electronics. > Are we getting cheaper crypto > for ourselves? No, because the market would have provided that on its > own had they not deliberately sabotaged it. I disagree. Modulo ITAR, it's not the government that has sabotaged the market. > Someone please tell me what exactly we get in our social contract in > exchange for giving up our right to strong cryptography? Can you tell me where exactly we have given up that right? Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation ",11 "Re: Win NT - what is it??? In article , ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes: > In article <2BCF2664.3C6A@deneva.sdd.trw.com> reimert@.etdesg.trw.com (Scott P. Reimert) writes: > > >Somewhere in this thread, it has been said that Windows NT (tm) is a > >multi-user OS, as well as multi-threading, etc. I certainly haven't > >seen this to be the case. There are seperate accounts for each person, > >and even seperate directories if that is desired. I don't see an > >implentation of simultaneuos use though. > > Since running any GUI over a network is going to slow it down by a > fair amount, I expect Windows NT will be multiuser only in the sense > of sharing filesystems. Someone will likely write a telnetd for it so > one could run character-based apps, but graphics-based apps will have > to be shared by running the executables on the local CPU. This is how > things are shaping up everywhere: client-server architectures are > taking over from the old cpu-terminal setups. > > Note that the NeXT does this: you can always telnet into a NeXT and > run character-based apps but you can't run the GUI. (Yeah, I know > about X-Windows, just haven't been too impressed by it...).. > > > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala > Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach > Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS ! I read this in an electronic ""magazine"" about NT: ""And for all the hoopla about NT, one would think the thing would be multi-user but it's not. It supports only one user at a time. It can support multiple clients but only one actual user."" Your mileage may vary! -- THIS POSTING DOES NOT REPRESENT THE OPINIONS OF MY EMPLOYERS. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ""I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to leave the store, mam"" Ash, AoD ================================================================== ",2 "Program WM_PROTOCOLS in OPEN LOOK toolkit..... Hi, all: I am studying the book --> ""UNIX Desktop Guide to OPEN LOOK"". There is an example --> winprop.c that demonstrate how to program WM_PROTOCOLS property in chapter 8. It can run, but only show the static text messages, no Notice pop_up. What is the problem? Thanks in advance for help!!1 IOP /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ /* File: winprop.c * * Shows how to set properties on a window. * */ #include /* For definition of XA_ATOM */ #include #include #include #include #include #include /* This file defines the atoms with _OL_ prefix */ /* ID of the top-level and NoticeShell widget */ static Widget top_level, notice_shell; static Widget make_notice(); static char message[] = ""Clients use properties to communicate \ with the window manager. This example illustrates how an OPEN \ LOOK application requests notification from the window manager \ when certain events occur. The communication is in the form of \ a ClientMessage event that the application processes in an \ event-handler.""; /* Atoms used for inter-client communication */ Atom ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS, ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW, ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF; static void handle_wm_messages(); static void save_and_exit(); static void save_yourself(); static void pop_notice(); static void do_exit(); /* String to hold comand line (for use in responding to * the WM_SAVE_YOURSELF protocol message. */ char saved_cmdline[128]; /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ void main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { Widget w; int i; /* Save the command-line for use in responding to the * WM_SAVE_YOURSELF protocol message. */ sprintf(saved_cmdline, ""%s "", argv[0]); if(argc > 1) for(i = 1; i < argc; i++) { strcat(saved_cmdline, argv[i]); strcat(saved_cmdline, "" ""); } /* Create and initialize the top-level widget */ top_level = OlInitialize(argv[0], ""Ol_main"", NULL, 0, &argc, argv); /* Create a StaticText widget */ w = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(""Stext"", staticTextWidgetClass, top_level, XtNstring, message, XtNwidth, 200, NULL); /* Create a NoticeShell widget for later use */ make_notice(top_level); /* Intern the atoms */ ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS = XInternAtom(XtDisplay(w), ""WM_PROTOCOLS"", False); ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW = XInternAtom(XtDisplay(w), ""WM_DELETE_WINDOW"", False); ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF = XInternAtom(XtDisplay(w), ""WM_SAVE_YOURSELF"", False); /* Add an event-handler to process ClientMessage events sent * by the window manager */ XtAddEventHandler(top_level, NoEventMask, True, handle_wm_messages, NULL); /* Realize the widgets and start processing events */ XtRealizeWidget(top_level); /* Append the properties WM_DELETE_WINDOW and WM_SAVE_YOURSELF * to the definition of the WM_PROTOCOLS property. This step * requires the window ID of the top-level widget. The window * ID is valid only after the widget is realized. */ XChangeProperty(XtDisplay(top_level), XtWindow(top_level), ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS, XA_ATOM, 32, PropModeAppend, &ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW, 1); XChangeProperty(XtDisplay(top_level), XtWindow(top_level), ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS, XA_ATOM, 32, PropModeAppend, &ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF, 1); XtMainLoop(); } /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ static void handle_wm_messages(w, client_data, p_event) Widget w; XtPointer client_data; XEvent *p_event; { if(p_event->type == ClientMessage && p_event->xclient.message_type == ATOM_WM_PROTOCOLS) { if(p_event->xclient.data.l[0] == ATOM_WM_DELETE_WINDOW) { save_and_exit(); } if(p_event->xclient.data.l[0] == ATOM_WM_SAVE_YOURSELF) { save_yourself(); } } } /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ static void save_and_exit() { /* Display a notice giving the user a chance to respond */ pop_notice(top_level, notice_shell); } /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ static void save_yourself() { /* Set the WM_COMMAND property to the saved command-line. */ XChangeProperty(XtDisplay(top_level), XtWindow(top_level), XA_WM_COMMAND, XA_STRING, 8, PropModeReplace, saved_cmdline, strlen(saved_cmdline) + 1); } /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ static Widget make_notice(parent) Widget parent; { Widget w, n_text, n_control, n_exit, n_cancel; /* Create a button and provide a callback to pop up a Notice */ w = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(""QuitButton"", oblongButtonWidgetClass, parent, XtNlabel, ""Exit..."", NULL); XtAddCallback(w, XtNselect, pop_notice, NULL); /* Create the NoticeShell widget. Note that you have to use * XtVaCreatePopupShell instead of the usual * XtVaCreateManagedWidget. */ notice_shell = XtVaCreatePopupShell(""QuitNotice"", noticeShellWidgetClass, w, NULL); /* Get the ID of the text and control area widgets of the * NoticeShell. */ XtVaGetValues(notice_shell, XtNtextArea, &n_text, XtNcontrolArea, &n_control, NULL); /* Place a message in the text area of the NoticeShell */ XtVaSetValues(n_text, XtNstring, ""Please confirm exit from program."", NULL); /* Add buttons to the control area of the NoticeShell. * Each button has an appropriate callback. */ n_exit = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(""NoticeExit"", oblongButtonWidgetClass, n_control, XtNlabel, ""Exit"", NULL); XtAddCallback(n_exit, XtNselect, do_exit, NULL); n_cancel = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(""NoticeCancel"", oblongButtonWidgetClass, n_control, XtNlabel, ""Cancel"", XtNdefault, True, NULL); return w; } /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ static void pop_notice(w_emanate, w_notice) Widget w_emanate, w_notice; { XtVaSetValues(w_notice, XtNemanateWidget, w_emanate, NULL); /* Pop up the NoticeShell widget. The NoticeShell widget makes * sure that the aplication waits until the user selects from * one of the buttons in the NoticeShell's control area. */ XtPopup(w_notice, XtGrabExclusive); } /*-------------------------------------------------------------*/ static void do_exit(w, call_data, client_data) Widget w; XtPointer call_data, client_data; { XCloseDisplay(XtDisplay(w)); exit(0); } ",5 "Reposting: 10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest rules (1 of 2) We have received a number of requests for a reposting of the International Obfuscated C Code Contest rules and guidelines. Also some people requested that these rules be posted to a wider set of groups. Sorry for the cross posting. Some technical clarifications were made to the rules and guidelines (See the diff marks at the right hand edge). The rules and guidelines for this year remain the same, so people who have already or are in the process of submitting entries for the 1993 IOCCC need not worry about these changes. chongo /\cc/\ chongo@toad.com Larry Bassel lab@sun.com =-= #!/bin/sh # This is a shell archive (shar 3.32) # made 04/05/1993 23:00 UTC by chongo@toad.com # Source directory /tmp # # existing files WILL be overwritten # # This shar contains: # length mode name # ------ ---------- ------------------------------------------ # 8971 -r--r--r-- rules # 25592 -r--r--r-- guidelines # 34482 -r--r--r-- mkentry.c # 6418 -r--r--r-- obfuscate.info # # ============= rules ============== echo ""x - extracting rules (Text)"" sed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > rules && X10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Rules X XCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. XAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is Xgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety Xand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing Xfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel. X X Obfuscate: tr.v. -cated, -cating, -cates. 1. a. To render obscure. X b. To darken. 2. To confuse: his emotions obfuscated his X judgment. [LLat. obfuscare, to darken : ob(intensive) + X Lat. fuscare, to darken < fuscus, dark.] -obfuscation n. X obfuscatory adj. X X XGOALS OF THE CONTEST: X X * To write the most Obscure/Obfuscated C program under the rules below. X * To show the importance of programming style, in an ironic way. X * To stress C compilers with unusual code. X * To illustrate some of the subtleties of the C language. X * To provide a safe forum for poor C code. :-) X X XNOTE: Changes from the 1993 draft are noted by change bars. ---> | X X XRULES: X X To help us with the volume of entries, we ask that you follow these rules: X X 1) Your entry must be a complete program. X X 2) Your entry must be <= 3217 bytes in length. The number of characters X excluding whitespace (tab, space, newline), and excluding any ; { or } X followed by either whitespace or end of file, must be <= 1536. X X 3) Your entry must be submitted in the following format: X X---entry--- Xrule: 1993 Xfix: y or n (n => this is a new entry, y => this replaces an older entry) Xtitle: title of entry (see comments below) Xentry: Entry number from 0 to 7 inclusive (your 1st entry should by 0) Xdate: Date/time of submission in UTC (see comments below) Xhost: Machine(s) and OS(s) under which your entry was tested X Use tab indented lines if needed X---remark--- X Place remarks about this entry in this section. It would be helpful if X you were to indent your remarks with 4 spaces, though it is not a X requirement. Also, if possible, try to avoid going beyond the 79th X column. Blank lines are permitted. X---author--- Xname: your name Xorg: School/Company/Organization Xaddr: postal address X use tab indented lines to continue X don't forget to include the country Xemail: Email address from a well known site or registered domain. X If you give several forms, list them on separate tab indented lines. Xanon: y or n (y => remain anonymous, n => ok to publish this info) X---info--- XIf your program needs an info file, place a uuencoded copy of it in Xthis section. In the case of multiple info files, use multiple info Xsections. If your entry does not need a info file, skip this section. X---build--- XPlace a uuencoded copy of the command(s) used to compile/build your program Xin this section. It must uudecode into a file named 'build'. The resulting Xfile must be 255 bytes or less. X---program--- XPlace a uuencoded copy of your program in this section. It must uudecode Xinto a file named is 'prog.c'. The resulting file must follow rule #2. X---end--- X X Regarding the above format: X X * The title must match the expression: [a-zA-Z0-9_=][a-zA-Z0-9_=+-]* X and must be 1 to 12 characters in length. X X It is suggested, but not required, that the title should X incorporate your username; in the case of multiple authors, X consider using parts of the usernames of the authors. X X * The date in the ---entry--- section should be given with respect X to UTC. The format of the date should be as returned by asctime() X using the C locale. (see guidelines for more info) X X * You may correct/revise a previously submitted entry by sending X it to the contest email address. Be sure to set 'fix' in the X ---entry--- section to 'n'. The corrected entry must use the same X title and entry number as submittion that is being corrected. Be X sure that you note the resubmittion in the ---remark--- as well. X X * With the exception of the header, all text outside of the above X format may be ignored by the judges. If you need tell the judges X something, put it in the ---remark--- section, or send a separate X Email message to the judges. X X * Information from the ---author--- section will be published unless X 'y' was given to the respective author's 'anon' line. X X * To credit multiple authors, include an ---author--- section for X each author. Each should start with ---author--- line, and X should be found between the ---entry--- and ---build--- sections. X X * The entry's remarks should include: X - what this program does X - how to run the program (sample args or input) X - special compile or execution instructions, if any X - special filename requirements (see rule 4 and 5) X - information about any ---data--- files X - why you think the program is obfuscated X - note if this entry is a re-submission of a previous entry. X - any other remarks (humorous or otherwise) X X * Do not rot13 your entry's remarks. You may suggest that certain X portions of your remarks be rot13ed if your entry wins an award. X X * Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. They X should not be required to exist. X X If your entry does not need an info file, skip the ---info--- X section. If your entry needs multiple info files, use multiple X ---info--- sections, one per info file. You should describe X each info file in the ---remark--- section. X X 4) If your entry is selected as a winner, it will be modified as follows: X X 'build' is incorporated into a makefile, and 'build' is removed X 'prog.c' is renamed to your entry's title, followed by an optional X digit, followed by '.c' X your entry is compiled into a file with the name of your entry's X title, possibly followed by a digit X X If your entry requires that a build file exist, state so in your X entry's remark section. The makefile will be arranged to execute a X build shell script containing the 'build' information. The name of X this build shell script will be your entry's title, possibly followed X by a digit, followed by '.sh'. X X If needed, your entry's remarks should indicate how your entry must X be changed in order to deal with the new filenames. X X 5) The build file, the source and the resulting executable should be X treated as read-only files. If your entry needs to modify these files, X it should make and modify a copy of the appropriate file. If this X occurs, state so in your entry's remarks. X X 6) Entries that cannot be compiled by an ANSI C compiler will be rejected. X Use of common C (K&R + extensions) is permitted, as long as it does not X cause compile errors for ANSI C compilers. X X 7) The program must be of original work. All programs must be in the X public domain. All copyrighted programs will be rejected. X X 8) Entries must be received prior to 07-May-93 0:00 UTC. (UTC is X essentially equivalent to Greenwich Mean Time) Email your entries to: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!obfuscate X obfuscate@toad.com X X We request that your message use the subject 'ioccc entry'. X X If possible, we request that you hold off on Emailing your entries X until 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC. Early entries will be accepted, however. X We will attempt to email a confirmation to the the first author for X all entries received after 1-Mar-93 0:00 UTC. X X 9) Each person may submit up to 8 entries per contest year. Each entry X must be sent in a separate Email letter. X X 10) Entries requiring human interaction to be built are not allowed. X Compiling an entry produce a file (or files) which may be executed. X X 11) Programs that require special privileges (setuid, setgid, super-user, X special owner or group) are not allowed. X X XFOR MORE INFORMATION: X X The Judging will be done by Landon Noll and Larry Bassel. Please send X questions or comments about the contest, to: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges (not the address for | X judges@toad.com submitting entries) | X X The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to X year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines X prior to submitting entries. To obtain them, send Email to the address | X above and use the subject 'send rules'. | X X One may obtain winners of previous contests (1984 to date), via ftp from: | X X host: ftp.uu.net (192.48.96.9) | X user: anonymous X pass: yourname@yourhost X dir: ~/pub/ioccc | X X As a last resort, previous winners may be obtained by sending Email | X to the above address. Please use the subject 'send YEAR winners', | X where YEAR is a single 4 digit year, a year range, or 'all'. | X X Xchongo /\cc/\ chongo@toad.com | XLarry Bassel lab@sun.com | SHAR_EOF chmod 0444 rules || echo ""restore of rules failed"" set `wc -c rules`;Wc_c=$1 if test ""$Wc_c"" != ""8971""; then echo original size 8971, current size $Wc_c fi # ============= guidelines ============== echo ""x - extracting guidelines (Text)"" sed 's/^X//' << 'SHAR_EOF' > guidelines && X10th International Obfuscated C Code Contest Guidelines, Hints and Comments X XCopyright (c) Landon Curt Noll & Larry Bassel, 1993. XAll Rights Reserved. Permission for personal, education or non-profit use is Xgranted provided this this copyright and notice are included in its entirety Xand remains unaltered. All other uses must receive prior permission in writing Xfrom both Landon Curt Noll and Larry Bassel. X XABOUT THIS FILE: X X This file is intended to help people who wish to submit entries to X the International Obfuscated C Code Contest (IOCCC for short). X X This is not the IOCCC rules, though it does contain comments about X them. The guidelines should be viewed as hints and suggestions. X Entries that violate the guidelines but remain within the rules are X allowed. Even so, you are safer if you remain within the guidelines. X X You should read the current IOCCC rules, prior to submitting entries. X The rules are typically sent out with these guidelines. X X Changes from the 1993 draft are noted by change bars. ---> | X X XWHAT IS NEW IN 1993: X X The entry format is better (for us anyway). The program mkentry.c X has been updated. See ENTRY FORMAT. X X We will reject entries that cannot be compiled using an ANSI C X compiler. Certain old Obfuscation hacks that cause ANSI C compilers X fits are no longer permitted. Some of the new issues deal with X non-integral array types, variable number of arguments, C preprocessor X directives and the exit() function. See OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES. X X XHINTS AND SUGGESTIONS: X X You are encouraged to examine the winners of previous contests. See X FOR MORE INFORMATION for details on how to get previous winners. X X Keep in mind that rules change from year to year, so some winning entries X may not be valid entries this year. What was unique and novel one year X might be 'old' the next year. X X An entry is usually examined in a number of ways. We typically apply X a number of tests to an entry: X X * look at the original source X * convert ANSI tri-graphs to ASCII X * C pre-process the source ignoring '#include' lines X * C pre-process the source ignoring '#define' and '#include' lines X * run it through a C beautifier X * examine the algorithm X * lint it X * compile it X * execute it X X You should consider how your entry looks in each of the above tests. X You should ask yourself if your entry remains obscure after it has been X 'cleaned up' by the C pre-processor and a C beautifier. X X Your entry need not do well under all, or in most tests. In certain X cases, a test is not important. Entries that compete for the X 'strangest/most creative source layout' need not do as well as X others in terms of their algorithm. On the other hand, given X two such entries, we are more inclined to pick the entry that X does something interesting when you run it. X X We try to avoid limiting creativity in our rules. As such, we leave X the contest open for creative rule interpretation. As in real life X programming, interpreting a requirements document or a customer request X is important. For this reason, we often award 'worst abuse of the X rules' to an entry that illustrates this point in an ironic way. X X If you do plan to abuse the rules, we suggest that you let us know X in the remarks section. Please note that an invitation to abuse X is not an invitation to break. We are strict when it comes to the X 3217 byte size limit. Also, abusing the entry format tends to X annoy more than amuse. X X We do realize that there are holes in the rules, and invite entries X to attempt to exploit them. We will award 'worst abuse of the rules' X and then plug the hole next year. Even so, we will attempt to use X the smallest plug needed, if not smaller. :-) X X Check out your program and be sure that it works. We sometimes make X the effort to debug an entry that has a slight problem, particularly X in or near the final round. On the other hand, we have seen some X of the best entries fall down because they didn't work. X X We tend to look down on a prime number printer, that claims that X 16 is a prime number. If you do have a bug, you are better off X documenting it. Noting ""this entry sometimes prints the 4th power X of a prime by mistake"" would save the above entry. And sometimes, X a strange bug/feature can even help the entry! Of course, a correctly X working entry is best. X X XOUR LIKES AND DISLIKES: X X Doing masses of #defines to obscure the source has become 'old'. We X tend to 'see thru' masses of #defines due to our pre-processor tests X that we apply. Simply abusing #defines or -Dfoo=bar won't go as far X as a program that is more well rounded in confusion. X X Many ANSI C compilers dislike the following code, and so do we: X X #define d define X #d foo <-- don't expect this to turn into #define foo X X int i; X j; <-- don't use such implicit type declaration X int k; X X We suggest that you compile your entry with an ANSI C compiler. If you X must use non-ANSI C, such as K&R C, you must avoid areas that result in X compile/link errors for ANSI C compilers. X X Unfortunately, some ANSI C compilers require array indexes to be of | X integral type. Thus, the following classical obfuscation hacks should | X not be used in 1993. This rule may be relaxed in future contests. | X X int i; X char *c; X i[c]; <--- use c[i] instead X (i+3)[""string""]; <--- use ""string""[i+3] instead X X If your entry uses functions that have a variable number of X arguments, be careful. Systems implement va_list as a wide variety X of ways. Because of this, a number of operations using va_list are X not portable and must not be used: X X * assigning a non-va_list variable to/from a va_list variable X * casting a non-va_list variable into/from a va_list variable X * passing a va_list variable to a function expecting a non-va_list arg X * passing a non-va_list variable to a function expecting a va_list arg X * performing arithmetic on va_list variables X * using va_list as a structure or union X X In particular, do not treat va_list variables as if they were a char **'s. X X Avoid using , use instead. X X If you use C preprocessor directives (#define, #if, #ifdef, ...), X the leading '#' must be the first character on a line. While some X C preprocessors allow whitespace the leading '#', many do not. X X Because the exit() function returns void on some systems, entries X must not assume that it returns an int. X X Small programs are best when they are short, obscure and concise. X While such programs are not as complex as other winners, they do X serve a useful purpose. They are often the only program that people X attempt to completely understand. For this reason, we look for X programs that are compact, and are instructional. X X One line programs should be short one line programs, say around 80 X bytes long. Getting close to 160 bytes is a bit too long in our opinion. X X We tend to dislike programs that: X X * are very hardware specific X * are very OS or Un*x version specific X (index/strchr differences are ok, but socket/streams specific X code is likely not to be) X * dump core or have compiler warnings X (it is ok only if you warn us in the 'remark' header item) X * won't compile under both BSD or SYS V Un*x X * abusing the build file to get around the size limit X * obfuscate by excessive use of ANSI tri-graphs X * are longer than they need to be X * are similar to previous winners X * are identical to previous losers :-) X X Unless you are cramped for space, or unless you are entering the X 'best one liner' category, we suggest that you format your program X in a more creative way than simply forming excessively long lines. X X The build file should not be used to try and get around the size X limit. It is one thing to make use of a several -D's to help out, X but it is quite another to use 200+ bytes of -D's in order to X try and squeeze the source under the size limit. You should feel X free to make use of the build file space, but you are better off X if you show some amount of restraint. X X We allowed whitespace, and in certain cases ; { or } do not impact X your program size (up to a certain point), because we want to get X away from source that is simply a compact blob of characters. X X Given two versions of the same program, one that is a compact blob X of code, and the other that is formatted more like a typical C X program, we tend to favor the second version. Of course, a third X version of the same program that is formatted in an interesting X and/or obfuscated way, would definitely win over the first two! X X We suggest that you avoid trying for the 'smallest self-replicating' X program. We are amazed at the many different sizes that claim X to be the smallest. There is nothing wrong with self-replicating X programs. In fact, a number of winners have been self-replicating. X You might want to avoid the claim of 'smallest', lest we (or others) X know of a smaller one! X X X client entries should be as portable as possible. Entries that X adapt to a wide collection of environments will be favored. Don't X depend on a particular type of display. For example, don't depend X on color or a given size. Don't require backing store. X X X client entries should avoid using X related libraries and X software that is not in wide spread use. We ask that such X client X entries restrict themselves to only the low level Xlib and the X Athena widget set (libX11.a, libXaw.a, libXmu.a and libXt.a). X Don't use M*tif, Xv*ew, or OpenL*ok toolkits, since not everyone X has them. Avoid depending on a particular window manager. Not X everyone has X11r5, and some people are stuck back in X11r4 (or X earlier), so try to target X11r5 without requiring X11r5. Better X yet, try to make your entry run on all version 11 X Window Systems. X X X client entries should not to depend on particular items on X .Xdefaults. If you must do so, be sure to note the required lines X in the ---remark--- section. X X We like programs that: X X * are as concise and small as they need to be X * do something at least quasi-interesting X * pass lint without complaint (not a requirement, but it is nice) X * are portable X * are unique or novel in their obfuscation style X * MAKE USE OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF OBFUSCATION X * make us laugh and/or throw up :-) X X Some types of programs can't excel in some areas. Of course, your X program doesn't have to excel in all areas, but doing well in several X areas really does help. X X We freely admit that interesting, creative or humorous comments in X the ---remark--- section helps your chance of winning. If you had to X read of many twisted entries, you too would enjoy a good laugh or two. X We think the readers of the contest winners do as well. X X Be creative! X X XENTRY FORMAT: X X In order to help us process the many entries, we must request your X assistance by formatting your entries in a certain way. This format, X in addition, allows us to quickly separate information about the X author from the program itself. (see JUDGING PROCESS) X X We have provided the program, mkentry, as an example of how to X format entries. You should be aware of the following warning that X is found in mkentry.c: X X This program attempts to implement the IOCCC rules. Every X attempt has been made to make sure that this program produces X an entry that conforms to the contest rules. In all cases, X where this program differs from the contest rules, the X contest rules will be used. Be sure to check with the X contest rules before submitting an entry. X X You are not required to use mkentry. It is convenient, however, X as it attempts to uuencode the needed files, and attempt to check X the entry against the size rules. X X If you have any suggestions, comments, fixes or complaints about X the mkentry.c program, please send Email to the judges. (see below) X X The following is a sample entry: X X---entry--- Xrule: 1993 Xfix: n Xtitle: chonglab Xentry: 0 Xdate: Mon Mar 1 08:45:20 1993 Xhost: Un*x v6, pdp11/45 X 2.9BSD, pdp11/70 X---remark--- X This is a non-obfuscated obfuscated C program. X X It is likely not to win a prize. But what do you expect from X a short example! X---author--- Xname: Landon Curt Noll Xorg: IOCCC Judging Group Xaddr: Toad Hall X PO Box 170608 X San Francisco, California X 94117-0608 X USA Xemail: chongo@toad.com Xanon: n X---author--- Xname: Larry Bassel Xorg: IOCCC Judging Group Xaddr: Toad Hall X PO Box 170608 X San Francisco, California X 94117-0608 X USA Xemail: hoptoad!sun!lab X lab@sun.com Xanon: n X---info--- Xbegin 444 info.file XM0V]P>7)I9VAT(""AC*2!,86YD;VX@0W5R=""!.;VQL+""`Q.3DS+@I!;&P@4FEG XM:'1S(%)E65A2!A8W1U86QL>2!D96-O9&5D('1H:7,@9FEL92X*22!W;VYD97(@:&]W(&UA X9;GD@=VEL;""!D;R!I=""!T:&ES('EE87(_""@`` X` Xend X---build--- Xbegin 444 build X28V,@<')O9RYC(""UO('!R;V<* X` Xend X---program--- Xbegin 444 prog.c XM;6%I;B@I""GL*(VEF(&1E9FEN960H05]214=)4U1%4D5$7U9/5$527TE.7U-5 XM3DY95D%,15]#04Q)1D]23DE!7U5302D*(""`@('!R:6YT9B@B5F]T92!,86YD XM;VX@3F]L;""!F;W(@4W5N;GEV86QE($-I='D@0V]U;F-I;""!S96%T("",Q+EQN X:(BD[""B-E;F1I9@H@(""`@97AI=""@P*3L*?0H` X` Xend X---end--- X X Typically the build file should assume that the source is prog.c X and will compile into prog. If an entry wins, we will rename X its source and binary to avoid filename collision. By tradition, X we use the name of the entry's title, followed by an optional X digit in case of name conflicts. X X If the above entry somehow won the 'least likely to win' award, X we would use chonglab.c and chonglab. X X If your entry depends on, or requires that your build, source X and/or binary files be a particular name, please say so in the X ---remark--- section. If this case applies, it would be be helpful X if you did one of the following: X X * Tell us how to change the filename(s) in your entry. X X * Have the build file make copies of the files. For example: X X cc prog.c -o special_name need special binary X X or rm -f special_src.c need special source X cp prog.c special_src.c X cc special_src.c -o special_name X X or rm -f special_build need special build X tail +4 build > special_build X sh < special_build X X * Assume that we will use the entry title. Send us a version of X your build/program files that uses the name convention. You X should uuencode these files in ---data--- sections. X X If your entry needs to modify its source, info or binary files, X please say so in the ---remark--- section. You should try to avoid X touching your original build, source and binary files. You should X arrange to make copies of the files you intend to modify. This X will allow people to re-generate your entry from scratch. X X Remember that your entry may be built without a build file. We X typically incorporate the build lines into a Makefile. If the X build file must exist, say so in the ---remark--- section. X X If your entry needs special info files, you should uuencode them X into ---info--- sections. In the case of multiple info files, X use multiple ---info--- sections. If no info files are needed, X then skip the ---info--- section. X X Info files are intended to be input, or detailed information that X does not fit well into the ---remark--- section. For example, an X entry that implements a compiler might want to provide some sample X programs for the user to compile. An entry might want to include a X lengthy design document, that might not be appropriate for a X 'hints' file. X X Info files should be used only to supplement your entry. For X example, info files may provide sample input or detailed X information about your entry. Because they are supplemental, X the entry should not require them exist. X X In some cases, your info files might be renamed to avoid name X conflicts. If info files should not be renamed for some reason, X say so in the ---remark--- section. X X Info files must uudecode into the current directory. If they X absolutely must be renamed, or moved into a sub-directory, say X so in the ---remark--- section. X X When submitting multiple entries, be sure that each entry has X a unique entry number from 0 to 7. Your first entry should X have entry number 0. X X With the exception of the header, all text outside of the entry X format may be ignored. That is, don't place text outside of the X entry and expect the judges to see it. (Our decoding tools aren't X AI progs!) If you need tell the the something, put it in the X ---remark--- section, or send a Email to the judges at: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges (not the address for X judges@toad.com submitting entries) X X The date should be given with respect to UTC. (Some systems refer X to this as GMT or GMT0) The format of the date should be that as X returned by asctime() in the C locale. An example of such a string is: X X Thr Apr 01 00:47:00 1993 X X This format is similar to the output of the date(1) command. The X string does not include the timezone name before the year. On many X systems, one of the following command will produce a similar string: X X date -u ""+%a %h %d %T 19%y"" X date -u | sed -e 's/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/' X sh -c 'TZ=UTC date | sed -e ""s/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/""' X sh -c 'TZ=GMT date | sed -e ""s/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/""' X sh -c 'TZ=GMT0 date | sed -e ""s/... \(19[0-9][0-9]\)$/\1/""' X X You are allowed to update/fix/revise your entry. To do so, set X the 'fix' line in the ---entry--- section to 'y' instead of 'n'. X Be sure that the resubmittion uses the same title and entry number X as well, as these are used to determine which entry is to be X replaced. X X XJUDGING PROCESS: X X Entries are judged by Larry Bassel and Landon Curt Noll. X X Entries are unpacked into individual directories. The Email message X is unpacked into individual files, each containing: X X ---entry--- section X all ---author--- sections X all ---info--- sections X ---build--- section X ---program--- section X any other text, including the Email message headers X X Prior to judging, the 'any other text' file is scanned to be sure X it does not contain useful information (or in case the entry was X malformed and did not unpack correctly). Information from the X ---author--- sections are not read until the judging process is X complete, and then only from entries that have won an award. X X The above process helps keep us biased for/against any one particular X individual. We are usually kept in the dark as much as you are X until the final awards are given. We like the surprise of finding X out in the end, who won and where they were from. X X We attempt to keep all entries anonymous, unless they win an award. X Because the main 'prize' of winning is being announced, we make all X attempts to send non-winners into oblivion. We remove all non-winning X files, and shred all related paper. By tradition, we do not even X reveal the number of entries that we received. (for the curious, X we do indicate the volume of paper consumed when presenting the IOCCC X winners at talks) X X After the Usenix announcement, we attempt to send Email to the X authors of the winning entries. One reason we do this is to give X the authors a chance to comment on the way we have presented their X entry. They are given the chance to correct mistakes, typos. We X often accept their suggestions/comments about our remarks as well. X This is done prior to posting the winners to the wide world. X X Judging consists of a number of elimination rounds. During a round, X the collection of entries are divided into two roughly equal piles; X the pile that advances on to the next round, and the pile that does X not. We also re-examine the entries that were eliminated in the X previous round. Thus, an entry gets at least two readings. X X A reading consists of a number of actions: X X * reading the ---entry--- section X * reading the uudecoded ---build--- section X * reading the uudecoded ---program--- section X * reading the uudecoded ---info--- section(s), if any X * passing the source thru the C pre-processor X shipping over any #include files X * performing a number of C beautify/cleanup edits on the source X * passing the beautified source thru the C pre-processor X shipping over any #include files X X In later rounds, other actions are performed: X X * linting the source X * compiling/building the source X * running the program X * performing misc tests on the source and binary X X Until we reduce the stack of entries down to about 25 entries, entries X are judged on an individual basis. An entry is set aside because it X does not, in our opinion, meet the standard established by the round. X When the number of entries thins to about 25 entries, we begin to form X award categories. Entries begin to compete with each other for awards. X An entry often will compete in several categories. X X The actual award category list will vary depending on the types of entries X we receive. A typical category list might be: X X * best small one line program X * best small program X * strangest/most creative source layout X * most useful obfuscated program X * best game that is obfuscated X * most creatively obfuscated program X * most deceptive C code X * best X client (see OUR LIKES AND DISLIKES) X * best abuse of ANSI C X * worst abuse of the rules X * X X We do not limit ourselves to this list. For example, a few entries are so X good/bad that they are declared winners at the start of the final round. X We will invent awards categories for them, if necessary. X X In the final round process, we perform the difficult tasks of X reducing the remaining entries (typically about 25) down to 8 or 10 X winners. Often we are confident that the entries that make it into X the final round are definitely better than the ones that do not X make it. The selection of the winners out of the final round, is X less clear cut. X X Sometimes a final round entry good enough to win, but is beat out X by a similar, but slightly better entry. For this reason, it is X sometimes worthwhile to re-enter an improved version of an entry X that failed to win in a previous year. This assumes, of course, X that the entry is worth improving in the first place! X X More often that not, we select a small entry (usually one line), a X strange/creative layout entry, and an entry that abuses the contest X rules in some way. X X In the end, we traditionally pick one entry as 'best'. Sometimes such X an entry simply far exceeds any of the other entry. More often, the X 'best' is picked because it does well in a number of categories. X X XANNOUNCEMENT OF WINNERS: X X The first announcement, occurs at a Summer Usenix conference. By tradition, X this is done during the latter part of the UUNET/IOCCC BOF, just prior to X the Berkeley BSD, and BSDI BOF. X X Winning entries will be posted in late June to the following groups: X X comp.lang.c comp.unix.wizards alt.sources X X In addition, pointers to these postings are posted to the following X X comp.sources.d alt.sources.d misc.misc X comp.sources.misc comp.windows.x X X Winning entries will be deposited into the uunet archives. See X below for details. X X Often, winning entries are published in selected magazines. Winners X have appeared in books (""The New Hackers Dictionary"") and on T-Shirts. X X Last, but not least, winners receive international fame and flames! :-) X X XFOR MORE INFORMATION: X X You may contact the judges by sending Email to the following address: X X ...!{apple,pyramid,sun,uunet}!hoptoad!judges (not the address for X judges@toad.com submitting entries) X X Questions and comments about the contest are welcome. X X The rules and the guidelines may (and often do) change from year to | X year. You should be sure you have the current rules and guidelines | X prior to submitting entries. To obtain them, send Email to the address | X above and use the subject 'send rules'. | X X One may obtain winners of previous contests (1984 to date), via ftp from: | X X host: ftp.uu.net (192.48.96.9) | X user: anonymous X pass: yourname@yourhost X dir: ~/pub/ioccc | X X As a last resort, previous winners may be obtained by sending Email | X to the above address. Please use the subject 'send YEAR winners', | X where YEAR is a single 4 digit year, a year range, or 'all'. | X X Xchongo /\cc/\ chongo@toad.com | XLarry Bassel lab@sun.com | SHAR_EOF chmod 0444 guidelines || echo ""restore of guidelines failed"" set `wc -c guidelines`;Wc_c=$1 if test ""$Wc_c"" != ""25592""; then echo original size 25592, current size $Wc_c fi echo ""End of part 1, continue with part 2"" exit 0 -- Sunnyvale residents: Vote Landon Noll for Sunnyvale City Council seat 1. ",5 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) writes: >In strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > [...] >>I'd be happy to use a crypto system supplied by the NSA for business, if >>they told me it was more secure than DES, and in particular resistant to >>attempts by Japanese, French, and other competitive companies and >>governments to break. > >(It's NIST, not NSA. NSA is not supposed to have anything to do with this.) With all the activity in sci.crypt these past few days, I am not supprised you missed it... NIST got Skipjack from the NSA :) [...] >>I'd trust the NSA or the President if they stated there were no trap >>doors--I'd be even happier if a committee of independent experts examined >>the thing under seal of secrecy and reported back that it was secure. > >I wouldn't trust the NSA. I think I would trust the President on this, but >I'm not certain he would be told. ""I am not a crook."" President Richard M. Nixon ^^^^^^^^^ -- Information farming at... For addr&phone: finger A/~~\A THE Ohio State University jebright@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ((0 0))____ Jim Ebright e-mail: jre+@osu.edu \ / \ Support Privacy: Support Encryption (--)\ ",11 "Re: IIsi clock upgrade Hi, I have been getting a lot of requests for this information so I thought I would post it for those interested parties. (Sorry for length). To increase the MacIISi speed to 25MHz or 33MHz the clock must be changed from 40MHz to 50MHz or 64MHz respectively. This is done by going to a static-free work station or putting some aluminum foil down to work on. 1. Open up the Si by lifting the tabs at the back of the case. 2. Remove the Hard Disk by disconnecting the power and SCSI cables, spreading the tabs, and lifting the drive out. 3. Remove the flopy drive. 4. Remove the power supply by spreading the tab in front and lifting the supply straight up and out. 5. Remove the fan by pressing the ears together at the back, bottom side of the fan and lifting straight up and out. 6. Remove the Mother Board by spreading the tabs on the left and right side of the board and sliding the board forward then lifting the board out. (all connectors on the back of the board must be removed first) 7. Desolder the 40MHz clock (the one closest to the memory modules). This is not easy even for a skilled solderer. 8. Get an IC socket with the round pins and remove four of the pins by pushing them up from the bottom with long nose pliers. 9. Put the four pins in the holes vacated by the clock and solder them in. 10.Insert a 50MHz or 64MHz clock. 11.Put large power transistor heat sink's on the processor chip and the other large chip just to the right of the processor and figure some way to hold the heat sync's in place. I made a simple clamp by putting a four inch screw up through the hole in the board between the two chips. Mount the screw using insulated washers. Screw a cross member down over the heat sync's to hold them in place. Don't use too much pressure. 12. Put it all back together and go-for-it. Disclaimer: this is only the procedure I used and is not authorized by anyone. You are on your own for this procedure. I'm quite sure it will void your warentee. Bye for now, ************************************************ Ralph Durtschi (208) 236-3256 Idaho State University EMAIL: durtralp@ux1.isu.edu ************************************************ ",4 "Xt intrinsics: slow popups Help: I am running some sample problems from O'Reilly volume 4, Xt Intrisics Programming Manual, chapter 3. popup dialog boxes and so on. In example 3.5, page 76 : ""Creating a pop-up dialog box"" The application creates window with a button ""Quit"" and ""Press me"". The button ""Press me"" pops up a dialog box. The strange feature of this program is that it always pops up the dialog box much faster the first time. If I try to pop it up a 2nd time (3rd, 4th .... time), it is *much* slower. Has anyone any experience with these sample programs, or why I get this behaviour - fast response time for the first time but slow response time from 2nd time onwards ? Anyone can give me some ideas on how to program popups so that each time they popup in reasonable fast response time ? Thankyou - Shirley ",5 "Re: CD's For Sale In article <1993Apr21.232428.21442@leland.Stanford.EDU> ryner@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ryan Tamm) writes: >If you paid $19.95 for a CD, you're a fool and you got ripped off. Please tell me where I can get a CD on the Wergo Music label for less than $20. foolishly, -- John Davison davisonj@ecn.purdue.edu ",6 "Re: Kawi Zephyr? (was Re: Vision vs GpZ 550) I don't know about the dinky little Zephyr's, but the 1100 (now the ZR1100) looks alot like my '76 Z1/ KZ900! The one I drooled over at Tri-Sports in Topsham, ME was a looker! Yes, Mercury axed the Zephyr name. Guess a lot of aging Republicans wanted a Zephyr and confused the Mercury with the Kawasaki :). Oh well, they're better off with the Kawasaki anyways. Maybe it'll shake the stick out of their asses and make Libertarians out of them! As to the GPz <--> Zephyr, the only GPz I've seen had the ball-buster gas tank profile, not the smooth saddle - to - gas tank transition. _Motorcyclist_ claims the Zephyr / ZR is the modernized Z1 (KZ) from the seventies. Jeff Andle DoD #3005 1976 KZ900 REE700A@MAINE.MAINE.EDU IntermittentNet access arranged through Bowdoin College. Please reply via e-mail, since a followup might expire before I see the Net again. ",8 "Re: All Electronics Press and Peel PCB transfer I think there is a huge difference in the materials and process for printer/toner PCB's. I get first time, everytime results from a local HP Postscript, and hardly ever works from copies of the same artwork. The printer results are so good that I have quit even looking for PC board processes. If I had to use the copier version, I would think I would look elsewhere. The moral? Experiment and find what works. Toner transfer CAN give excellent results. It, like any process, gives erratic results with variable inputs. R.G. ",12 "Tires For Sale I have a set of four 235-60-R14 Big O tires that I had on my 1988 Thunder Bird. We bought them and then traided the car in. They would not give me anything for them so I had them taken off. We drove about 2,000 miles on them. They are 40,000 mile tires. They are sporty looking low-profile, and take corners realy well. If you are interested please contact me at (208)384- 9236 OR DUSMADSO@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU I am in IDAHO. USA ",6 "Re: Eating and Riding was Re: Drinking and Riding In article Paul Nakada, pnakada@oracle.com writes: > >What's the feeling about eating and riding? I went out riding this >weekend, and got a little carried away with some pecan pie. The whole >ride back I felt sluggish. I was certainly much more alert on the >ride in. I'm sure others have the same feeling, but the strangest >thing is that eating is usually the turnaround point of weekend rides. > >From now on, a little snack will do. I'd much rather have a get that >full/sluggish feeling closer to home. > >-Paul >-- >Paul Nakada | Oracle Corporation | pnakada@oracle.com >DoD #7773 | '91 R100C | '90 K75S > To maintain my senses at their sharpest, I never eat a full meal within 24 hrs of a ride. I've tried Slim Fast Lite before a ride but found that my lap times around the Parliament Buildings suffered 0.1 secs. The resultant 70 pound weight loss over the summer just sharpens my bike's handling and I can always look forward to a winter of carbo-loading. Obligatory 8:) Dave D.F. ""It's true they say that money talks. When mine spoke it said 'Buy me a Drink!'."" ",8 "PSI modem problem II The first problem was the sound. I tried the M0, but then even the logon was muted. I don't want that. Any other suggestions for that hissing? The second is really strange. First, I kept mentioning that FC slowed down all the time and took too long. Well I just logged on with extensions off and I didn't have any slowdown. Also, last time I was online I quit (which usually disconnects and quits). It disconnected but it wouldn't quit. I had to force quit, and then when I launched FC again it said the modem port was in use. This is really strange. I thought it might have to do with fax software. Or the restart could have reset the modem port (a more likely explanation). So, any suggestions? -David **** From Planet BMUG, the FirstClass BBS of BMUG. The message contained in **** this posting does not in any way reflect BMUG's official views. ",4 "[SNES] [Genesis] Games for sale or trade. I have the following Genesis carts for sale or trade: Alien 3 Global gladiators Crue ball I have the following SNES carts for sale or trade: Jimmy connors tennis Super play action football Cross system trades are fine. Cheers Marc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ** ** * ****** *** * | On the net, ** * ** *** ** ** * * | no-one can hear you scream! ** * ** *** **** ** * * |------------------------------------ ** * ** *** ** ** * * | email marc@comp.lancs.ac.uk ** * ****** * ****** ** ** | marc@computing.lancaster.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",6 "Q: Colormaps with dialog shells I have an applicationShell which uses a colormap created with XCreateColormap() and uses all of the colors available for my 8-bit display. When I move the cursor over the window I get the ""Technicolor Effect"" - which is fine. Basically, my program works. My problem/question is: When I popup a dialogShell to prompt the user for some input I want the XmNdialogStyle to be set to XmDIALOG_PRIMARY_APPLICATION_MODAL. The result is that if my cursor is over the dialogShell I get my colormap, but if the cursor is over the applicationShell (or any window other than the dialogShell) I get the default colormap. But I'd like it so that if my cursor is over _any_ window of my application, I get my colormap. Any suggestions? Thanks, david, ",5 "Remapping in Procomm+4Windows!? One can only remap special-command keys in procomm it seems. I would like to remap other keys too - especially ""altgr 2"", and such combinations. Anybody know a plain OR dirty way to do this?? (of cause most people settle for remapping function keys, but I don't see why there should be a limitation...) Yours, Mattias ",2 "Re: Who is Henry Spencer anyway? Someone named Hansk asked about pictures. Well, there is an archive of portraits in xfaces format at ftp.uu.net. Henry Spencer's picture is there somewhere, along with several thousand others. I don't remember the path, though it should be easy to find. Remember, though, it seems to use both internet and uucp addresses. -- Phil Fraering |""Number one good faith! You convert, pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|you not tortured by demons!"" - anon. Mahen missionary ",14 "Vacation Hi netters, I have the following vacation packages for sale: 1> Bahamas Vacation. 2 round trip tickets to freeport, Grand Bahamas. Double occupancy, hotel accomodation. at $ 27 per person per night. 2> Orlando Florida + Las Vegas + Reno/ Lake Tahoe Vacation One round trip airline ticket. (from major US airports to the 3 of the above mentioned destinations) Hotel Accomodation for 1 or 2 people. (for 3 days/ 2 Nights). For those who are interested, drop me a mail at clim@cis.ohio-state.edu. ",6 "Re: Krillean Photography Before more bandwidth gets wasted on this: I APOLOGIZE for my flame. First, because I distributed the message to so many newsgroups; I did not check the crosspostings of the article I followed up on. Second, for not making my argument clear enough. I reacted to the tone of many of the anti-Kirlian posts, not to their content. Right or wrong, I found the arguments set in arrogant and sneering words (that includes ""jokes""), which I still think is unwarranted. And, obviously, I should not have done the same. -- Alex ",13 "Re: DeskWriter Drivers 3.1 -- How to install ? Can someone tell me which of the files that come with DW-3.1 go where and for what purpose? What can be left out, for instance, if you don't want to do background printing? As far as I can remember, all you need to do to get your Deskwriter up and printing using the 3.1 driver is to drag the driver itself (either serial or appletalk depending on your needs) to the system folder. You don't need the fonts or anything else if all you want is straight forward, bare bones, basic printing....I don't have anything else installed and can still print on a Deskwriter using sys7.1 and HP driver 3.1 Tony *************************************************************************** The views expressed in this posting those of the individual author only. [BBS Number:(613) 848-1346 MacContent is VictoriaÕs first Iconic BBS!] *************************************************************************** ",4 "Re: Ranger Fans????? In article <1993Apr22.171734.9534@alleg.edu>, ballb@reis56.alleg.edu (Brett Ball) writes: > In article <1993Apr22.101356.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> writes: >> I for one am happy about the Ranger's hiring of Keenan. It's too bad > that they >> didn't hire him when Smith fired Nielsen, maybe he could of staightened > out the >> babies on this team and made the playoffs. What this team needs is a > little >> fire under their butts!! >> >> Reading through most of these hockey news I don't see many Ranger fans > writing. >> I'm new to this system and a big hockey fan and a long suffering(1940) > Ranger >> fan. But remember suffering builds character!! >> >> I have some final questions about the way the team was handled in that > last >> dreadful stretch. >> >> 1. Knowing they needed offensive help from the blueline, why didn't we > see Mike >> Hurlbut, who played pretty well when he was called up when Leetch first > went >> down? >> >> 2. Why????!!!!! is Joe Kocur playing every night? He is not Bob Probert > who is >> tough but also can play. >> >> 3. How come Paul Broten is relegated to street clothes for the end of > the >> season. At least he plays with some heart and character, draws > penalties and >> plays 110% when he's on the ice. Was he in the doghouse for some > reason? >> >> 4. Joe Cirella?????!!!! Enough said! >> >> Ranger fans may be suffering but we're some of the most loyal, unlike > Islander >> fans who only show up when the team wins. >> >> As far as the Stanley Cup goes I think there's only one team that can > test >> Pittsburgh and that's Detroit. This would be the most entertaining and > hard >> fought series. Mario is amazing! >> >> Kurt > > I think Joe Kocus should play every night. He is a big physical guy, and > he gets the fans into the game with some big hits. (both checks and > fists) Its a big advantage to get the crowd going. Plus, he helps > protect the other players. Notice there are very few fights when Kocur is > on the ice unless he is it. I have seen people start to go after essa > Tikkanen, only to go slinking away when Kocur steps in. I think he is big > asset, but should be third line, and special situation only play. >> >> >> >>This is fast becoming a game without the goons. I admit Kocur may get the fans into the game but surely they would rather see Broten taking a pass from Kovalev and scoring a breakaway goal to put the Rangers up 3 (magic #) goals in the third period, rather than seeing Kocur take another stupid penalty and the Rangers giving up another powerplay goal! The Rangers need another top flight center who can take the pressure off Messier and the first line. Nemchinov is a perfect third line center. So who goes Beezer or Richter? Kurt ",10 "ESPN f*ck up Okay... here's some gripe""ing"" (?griping?... whatever). (I live in Santa Barbara... for reference... I think) Okay, ABC showed the Kings/Flames... fine... YAWN. ESPN (through a fortunate rainout of a baseball game) showed the Red Wings/Toronto game... cool. But I SWEAR that the advertisements all week long had said that ESPN would show Pitt/NJ on Tuesday and Bos/Buff on Thursday. I raced home from work early (4:30 Pacific) to catch the game, but ALAS, it was the Boston/Buffalo game and then they promised that they would show the Pitt/NJ game on Thursday. OVERNIGHT they changed their mind. I didn't mind THAT MUCH. I watched the game (hockey is MUCH better than NO hockey). During the game their were no video highlights from the Patrick division. What the hell was going on? At least they should show video highlights of the other games (especially the NYI/Caps game that was so close). My father (lives in Bowling Green, Kentucky [Bumbf*ck, Egypt]) got to watch the Pens game on ESPN. I just don't get it. The biggest problem is that Buffalo or Boston fans who didn't want to see the Pittsburgh/New Jersey game 2, will turn on their TVs on Thursday and see the Pittsburgh/New Jersey game 3 instead of the Buffalo/Boston game 3. At least, in my case, I just had to wait 2 more days to see my game. If I were a big Boston or Buffalo fan and I missed the game on Tuesday due to false advertising on the part of ESPN, I'd be mad as hell. Oh well... hopefully we'll get better coverage next year OR SOMETHING. Matt Coohill P.S. The announcers for the Buffalo/Boston were the worst that I have ever heard (as far emotion goes). They had the enthusiasm of ""Droopy Dog"". I hope for better on Thursday. ",10 "Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting jong@halcyon.com (Barking Weasel) writes: >schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes: >>My technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently >>wrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window, >>I lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless >>shifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some >>times using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5. > > Sounds about right. I usually slip it out during throttle-down >and then blip the throttle and wait until it feels like things are right >(usually about a second) and then slip it into gear... So, how did you guys *learn* this? Is it something you were born with, or did you make horrible grinding noises the first few times? (how many times?) I would think you'd have to have a certain amount of ""feel"" for it to begin with. Some people would never get it, and others (like me) would never have the guts to try it, unless maybe you were planning to buy a new transmission anyway... (BTW, I've heard that quite a few truckers and race car drivers shift this way). ================== zaphod@madnix.UUCP (Ron Bean) uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!zaphod ",7 "Everex Cubes Has anybody seen empty Everex's being sold ? I want the cube. Not the computer inards. Will it take standard AT-size motherboards ? Thanks. e-mail please. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Ashley |DISCLAIMER: My opinions. Not Harris' marka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com | The Lost Los Angelino | ",3 "Northwest Air tix - SAVE $30 ANY FLIGHT Northwest Air tix - SAVE $30 ANY FLIGHT I have a $400 credit with Northwest Airlines which must be used by Nov 27, 1993. There is a $50 charge to change the ticket, so I will sell it for $320. It can be used for any Northwest flight, but I don't think they will refund cash. Please contact me at tallen@corp.hp.com or (415)857-5878. Tom Allen ",6 "Re: WANTED: Playmation Info In article <1993Apr26.173254.12871@qiclab.scn.rain.com> baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer) writes: >In article <1993Apr22.205418.27411@osf.org> omar@godzilla.osf.org (Mark Marino) writes: >>Hi Folks, >> >> Does anyone have a copy of Playmation they'd be willing to sell me. I'd >>love to try it out, but not for the retail $$$. > >Playmation is available direct from Anjon & Associates for $299. Oops, forgot the phone number. It's 1-800-377-8287. -- \_ -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises <[_] Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP / AppleLink: KENBAER / Office: (206)573-9427 =# \, ""We're not hitchhiking anymore, we're RIDING!"" - Ren Hoak. ",1 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1993Apr17.162105.3303@scic.intel.com> sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth J. Bradley) writes: >Ifone simply says ""God did it"", then that is not falsifiable. Unless God admits that he didn't do it.... =) --- "" I'd Cheat on Hillary Too."" John Laws Local GOP Reprehensitive Extolling ""Traditional Family Values."" ",19 "Type spesifications (CB, VFR, GT, etc.) Can somebody tell me what all the letter spesifications on motorcycle models really mean. Example: What means the C, the B and the R in Honda CBR. - Or the V, S, G, L and P in Suzuki VS750GLP I wanna distribute this in our club magazine. I want lists of all types, but I already knows about Harley. Thanks in advance! Vidar --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vidar O. Solberg - NORWAY * ROCK HARD * RIDE FREE * ""We are the proud, the few and the true Metallibashers!"" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",8 "Re: If There Were No Hell In article smayo@world.std.com (Scott A Mayo) writes: > >Granting that, I think Christianity, as a relationship with Jesus and >a love for God and one's own soul, stands just fine without hell. I >don't believe, or see any evidence in scripture, that hell is presented >as a stick with which to beat people towards heaven. I certainly agree with the last paragraph. Also, Jesus;s statements on hell can be treated as totally symbolic, allegorical or as parables, as was much of his other teaching. There's more than enough hell here on earth that we are freed from by following Jesus that the rest just doesn't mattter to me. And the fact that we can be free of the hell here is the best gift God offers. Eternal life begins for us now and we do not wait to start partaking of the divine nature and journeying on the path to deification. Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com) -- ------- Lawrence Overacker Shell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965 llo@shell.com ",15 "Re: Back Breaker, Near Hit!! In article <1r941o$3tu@menudo.uh.edu> inde7wv@Rosie.UH.EDU writes: >I understand why you theoretically stop so far behind a car but can you >really in actuality avoid such an incident? Suggestions? If possible, I split lanes. Even if you don't get all the way to the head of the line, at least you won't rear-ended. I always worry more when I'm in the lane, at the front of the line, and no one in behind me. Then you have to keep an eye on your mirrors. I also get ready to pull a hard right, *just in case*. Mike -- Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w :q :wq :wq! ^d ^X ^? exit X Q ^C ^? :quitbye CtrlAltDel ~~q :~q logout save/quit :!QUIT ^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^vi man vi ^@ ^L ^[c ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help helpquit ^D ^d !! man help ^C ^c :e! help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel ""Hey, what does Stop L1A d..."" ",8 "Re: News briefs from KH # 1026 farzin@apollo3.ntt.jp (Farzin Mokhtarian) writes: >From: Kayhan Havai # 1026 >-------------------------- > > [...] > >o Dr. Malekzadeh, the minister of health mentioned that > the population growth rate in Iran at the end of 1371 > went below 2.7 I know nothing about statistics, but what significance does the relatively small population growth rate have where the sampling period is so small (at the end of 1371)? Is it adequete to suggest a trend or is it just noise? > - Farzin Mokhtarian --mack ",17 "Re: And in the US, even that argument doesn't stand. It costs far > more to execute a criminal in this country than it does to feed, > clothe, and shelter them for the remainder of their natural life. > Some people believe this is a fault of our judicial system. I > find it to be one of it's greatest virtues. I assume that you are talking about the appeals processes, etc.? Well, it should be noted that people who are imprisoned for life will also tend to appeal (though not quite as much in the ""final hours."" Anyway, economics is not a very good reason to either favor or oppose the punishment. keith ",0 "Re: SCSI and IDE: What's the difference? jhereg@iastate.edu writes: >In article <1993Apr21.124531.13053@ac.dal.ca> tominatr@ac.dal.ca writes: >>Stupid question from a new IBM PC user: >> >>I'm going to be selling my Mac and getting a Gateway 2000. >*retching noises* Talk about ""out of the frying pan and into the fire"" :) What CPU does this use? I need the info fro my Thesis. >>Are SCSI drives faster than IDE? >I'm pretty sure SCSI is faster. Along with a lot better compatability. Half right. SCSI-1 is SLOWER than IDE {5MB/s vs 8.3MB/s maximum.} SCSI-2 {8-bit} has a faster BURST rate than IDE {Quarda} SCSI-2 {16 and 32-BIT} are MUCH faster than IDE {Cyclone in June} ",3 "HP 2623A graphics terminal emulators I would be grateful to anyone who knows about an X-windows application that would emulate HP 2623A graphics in a manner similar to the way TEK graphics windows are implemented in xterm. Thanks for you help. -- Oleg Roytburd (oleg@sdd.comsat.com) ",5 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card Thomas Parsli writes: >I HATE long postings, but this turned out to be rather lengthy.... That's OK -- you can mail me if you want more discussion. >Acquiring weapons in Norway: >You can buy (almost) all kinds of weapons in Norway, BUT you must have a >permit, and a good reason to get the permit.... Around here, long-guns are proof of age and fill out the forms. For pistols, nation-wide check for felonies and three days wait. The ""good reason"" is the difference, and one Americans tend to get annoyed over as we see no reason the guy with the badge is any better than us. >It's a little like getting a drivers licence isn't it ??? >You have to prove that you CAN drive before you are allowed to... Not when dealing with America. I can drive an 18-wheel truck with no permit, no license, and at age 12 if I'm engaged in farming work. Strange, that, but there is little to no problem with this. Again, personal rights versus collective security. >Some crimes are commited with guns that have been in the owners 'arms' >for a long time, but these are rather the exeption. >Most criminals accuire guns to use them in crimes, and mostly short >time befor the crime. Strange that the rates would decline, since killing somebody is much more frowned upon than merely stealing a gun. >Use of knives: >It IS allowed to cary knifes in public, but not in your belt or 'open'. >You (Americans) think it's ok to have a gun, but not to carry it open >in public -rigth ?? Why attract attention? I carry my sword openly to and from practice, as that is the only legal thing I can do. I also attract a lot of attention doing this. I'd rather be lost ""in a crowd of one"" than be the subject of attention while carrying a weapon. Think of the word ""intimidation"" and you can see where intimidation is not the preferable method for the normal citizen. >Scandinavians ARE 'aggressive': >We northeners are not as hot-livered as southeners, but when we decide >to take action we DO. >Ask ANY historian or millitary with an knowledge of europe.... >(Or ask any German who served in Norway in WW2.....) Aggressive towards whom? Southerners? Germans? Precisely why I think your society is less violent, weapons aside. >Yes the individual is more important than the masses, but only to some >extent.... >Your criminal laws are to protect the individuals who makes the masses ?? >What happens when the rigths of some individuals affects the rights of >all the [masses?? -- editor barf -- Dan] Then the masses have the same rights as the individuals, because everything comes down to the individual in one instance or another. To draw an analogy, Norway is involved in the EEC. The USA in involved in NATO. The EEC requires certain changes in your laws. NATO requires no such changes in USA law. These laws affect citizens, and hence Norway is saying Europe is more important than, say, Norwegians having motorcycles that make over 100bhp. In the USA, we'd likely tell the EEC to get stuffed since the EEC has no business, in our eyes, in telling us how much horsepower we can safely ride. While I note that our own state governments often play with game with the federal government, in essence this is a cultural difference between us. >IF i lived in Amerika I would probably have a gun to defend myselfe in HOME. >But should it have to be like that ?? It shouldn't. Since neither of our countries has managed to remove criminals from society, in America we feel (and remember we have individual states that are larger than your country) that if the police cannot protect us then we must do so ourselves. The criminals in our country are quite violent, hence we prepare for them. >Do you think it's wise to sell guns like candy (some states do...) ?? >If you believe it's smart/neccacery to have drivers-licence WHY do you think >it should be free to buy guns ?? We don't. E-mail me to find out just how difficult it really is in this country. It is easier than in yours, but theft is far easier than the troubles we go through to purchase over here. >I would defend my home, loved ones and country, but I don't view guns as >neccities or toys. They are neither. They are an option. We would never force you to own guns if you lived here. We would, however, fight to keep that option open to you. >I HAVE done army service, and HAVE used a variaty of weapons, but wouldn't >want to have one for self defence or because they 'feel good'.... Then you show you are a responsible, rational user of weapons. Welcome to our ranks. Now, how do we teach the young people this sort of responsibility? Cultures seem to have a grave impact here. I notice you didn't use my great-grandfather's name. Well, he didn't like it much either ;-) < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > ",16 "Re: What is 3dO? In <1rs6giINN6hk@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes: >Someone please fill me in on what 3do. >Thanks, >BH There is a review of 3DO in the latest ""wired"" magazine. You may just want to take a trip to the local bookstore and check it out (there's some cool pics too). (I haven't read it yet, or I'd tell you more.. :-) - Aaron Hightower ",1 "Re: Why I won't be getting my Low Rider this year In article <1993Mar30.214419.923@pb2esac.uucp>, prahren@pb2esac.uucp (Peter Ahrens) writes: > In article <1993Mar29.225236.9061@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> car377@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (charles.a.rogers) writes: > >[...] I had planned to get an HD this year...but instead I > >took delivery on a brand new male offspring(er) last Monday... > > Sounds like you should have been doing your planning LAST year, given > Harley-Davidson's product delivery lag and the human gestation cycle. Or perhaps any planning at all. :-) Hiya Pete, still got that CBX? Nice to hear from you again! > >And, yes, I finally did figure out why this happens, and I have > >taken steps to ensure [a storkish repetition]... > > That would be low drag bars and way rad rearsets for the FJ, so that the > ergonomic constraints would have contraceptive consequences? Ouch. :-) This brings to mind one of the recommendations in the Hurt Study. Because the rear of the gas tank is in close proximity to highly prized and easily damaged anatomy, Hurt et al recommended that manufacturers build the tank so as to reduce the, er, step function provided when the rider's body slides off of the seat and onto the gas tank in the unfortunate event that the bike stops suddenly and the rider doesn't. I think it's really inspiring how the manufacturers have taken this advice to heart in their design of bikes like the CBR900RR and the GTS1000A. Chuck Rogers car377@torreys.att.com car377@cbnewsj.att.com ",8 "Re: Israel's Expansion In article <1993Apr18.212610.5933@das.harvard.edu>, adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes: |>In article <18APR93.15729846.0076@VM1.MCGILL.CA> B8HA000 writes: |> |>>1) Is Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon temporary? |> |> Israel has repeatedly stated that it will leave Lebanon when |>the Lebanese government can provide guarantees that Israel will not be |>attacked from Lebanese soil, and when the Syrians leave. Not acceptable. Syria and Lebanon have a right to determine if they wish to return to the situation prior to the French invasion where they were both part of the same ""mandate territory"" - read colony. Israel has no right to determine what happens in Lebanon. Invading another country because you consider them a threat is precisely the way that almost all wars of aggression have started. |>>2) Is Israel's occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan |>>temporary? |> |> The three are very different issues. Israel has stated |>repeatedly that it will not give up the whole Golan, but may be |>willing to give part of it to Syria as part of a peace agreement. Again territorial expansion by force. |> Israel has already annexed areas taken over in the 1967 war. |>These areas are not occupied, but disputed, since there is no |>legitamate governing body. Citizenship was given to those residents |>in annexed areas who wanted citizenship. The UN defines them as occupied. They are recognised as such by every nation on earth (excluding one small caribean island). |> Israel should keep control of parts of the West Bank, IMHO. |>The parts that should be kept are the westernmost mountain ridge, |>which contain few arab towns, and many suburbs, as well as overlooking |>the city of Tel Aviv. The Eastern mountain ridge should be |>abandonded. This is where most of the arabs live and it is less |>militarily relevant. Israel should also maintain a presence in the |>Jordan valley. So the Adam thinks that peace is possible with continued occupation and a continued military presence? That is a completely unsustainable situation because the USA is bankrupt and simply cannot afford to finance the Israeli ecconomy any more. There is no money for such an occupation. |>>If so (for those of you who support it), why were so |>>many settlers moved into the territories? If it is not temporary, |>>let's hear it. |> |> There are a number of reasons for people to move (they were |>not moved, but chose to move) into disputed areas. Note that since |>these moves were made by free willed human beings, not ""settlers,"" I |>will address two aspects of your question, why the government would |>allow &/or encourage them to move, and second why they did move. They were moved in as part of a deliberate policy to prevent the return of the occupied territories. Machiavelli described the reasoning in the Prince. The clear intention was to create a constituency which the Likud beleived could not be deprived of the land stolen from the indigenous population. The pretexts under which the settlers aquired land was through the redefinition of much land used in common as ""public land"". The assertion that the village common on which the village depends for food belongs to an invader simply because no individual has title is clearly an excuse. When the land is used to build a condominium for aliens brought in to occupy the land for a foreign power there is a clear breach of the Geneva convention which stipulates that land use in occupied territories must not be changed. No amount of self justifying on the part of Likud and hard linner appologists will change the fact that the majority of world governments, and all of those that actually have any power have condemned this practice. |> The government had a number of reasons for encouraging people |>to move across the green line. They included security and politics. |> |> The first reason was security. A large Jewish presense makes |>it difficult for terrorists to infiltrate. A Jewish settlements also |>act as fortresses in times of war. Theyu also are a liability. We are talking about civilian encampments that would last no more than hours against tanks, |> A second reason was political. Creating ""settlements"" brought |>the arabs to the negotiation table. Had the creation of new towns and |>cities gone on another several years, there would be no place left in |>Israel where there was an arab majority. There would have been no |>land left that could be called arab. Don't fool yourself. It was the gulf war that brought the Israelis to the negotiating table. Once their US backers had a secure base in the gulf they insrtructed Shamir to negotiate or else. If the creation of settlements had gone on any longer the USA would have cut the money supply. |> The fact that there are a hundered thousands Jews in place |>changes the face of any peace settlement, and restricts what land can |>be given away. Not at all. They can chose to live in an arab state or return to Israel. |> Some of the communites created were religious. They built |>their neighborhoods in areas where there were jews until the riots of |>the 30's and 40's. There are communities like this in Hebron, Gaza, |>and all over. There are also communities built near religious sites. The existence of a comunity does not give the right for another country to annexe territory, not in Bosnia, not in the West Bank. |> The point is, there are many reasons people moved over the |>green line, and many reasons the government wanted them to. Whatever |>status is negotiated for disputed territories, it will not be an ""all |>or nothing"" deal. New boundaries will be drawn up by negotiation, not |>be the results of a war. Unless the new boundaries drawn up are those of 48 there will be no peace. Araffat has precious little authority to agree to anything else. The real issue is not the land treaty but the trade treaty. Since the Palestinians will remain heavily dependent on Israel indefinitely it is this that will be the guarantor of peace. another factor will be the return of lands confiscated by the Israeli state within Israel and the dismantling of the shadow structures which allow discrimination against non-Jews within what is nominaly a secular state. The irony is that in return for a guarantee that the palestinian state has a non descrimination law in order to protect the remaining settlers the Israeli state is going to be forced inot the same position. This will mean outlawing of discrimination such as that which prevents arabs from buying or using much of the land. Phill Hallam-Baker ",17 "Re: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN! dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu said: >I only caught the tail end of this one on ESPN. Does anyone have a report? >(Look at all that Teal!!!! BLEAH!!!!!!!!!) Maybe it's just me, but the combination of those *young* faces peeking out from under oversized aqua helmets screams ""Little League"" in every fibre of my being... -- David M. Tate | (i do not know what it is about you that closes posing as: | and opens; only something in me understands e e (can | the pocket of your glove is deeper than Pete Rose's) dy) cummings | nobody, not even Tim Raines, has such soft hands ",9 "Re: Jewish Broadcasters (was Jewish Baseball Players?) Let's not forget Al Michaels, of ""Do you believe in miracles?"" fame. Jim ",9 "Re: Thousands of Armenians were serving the German army and Waffen-SS. In article <1993Apr19.010955.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> kmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >> Too bad. In fact, by 1942, Nazi Armenians in Europe had established >> a vast network of pro-German collaborators, that extended over two >> continents. >Before you go calling the kettle black, keep in mind that the >Turkish government was a strong supporter of Nazi Germany and >played a vital role in supplying it with oil until the Allies >invaded Iran. Complaining about Armenian complicity with the >Nazis does little good when Turkey played a much bigger role. Tell me, 'kmagnacca', were you high on 'Arromdian of ASALA/SDPA/ARF' when you wrote that? Humane behavior and tolerance of Turks was a legend even 500 years ago when they accepted tens of thousands of Jews from Spain who were fleeing from the Spanish Inquisition. Again, many Jewish families escaping from Nazi Armenians and Hitler's Nazi Germany took refugee in Turkiye during the 1940's. Turkish people have unselfishly given home, protection, and freedom to the Jews over the centuries, including to thousands and thousands of them during the Second World War. Get a life or a cup of Turkish coffee. ""History of the Jews in the Islamic Countries,"" chapters in Parts I and II, Jarusalem, Zalman Shazar Center for Jewish History, 1986. Baron, Salo W., ""A Social and Religious History of the Jews,"" New York, Columbia University Press, Vols. III, V, XVIII. Benardete, Mair Jose, ""Hispanic Culture and Character of the Sephardic Jews,"" New York, Sepher-Hermon Press, 2nd corrected edition, 1982 (original publication 1953). Lewis, Bernard, eds., ""Christians and Jews in the Ottoman Empire,"" New York, Holmes & Meier, 1982, Vol. I, The Central Lands. ""La Turquie dan les Archives des Grand Orient de France: les loges ...,"" in Jean-Louis Bacque-Graumont and Paul Dumont, eds., Economie et Societes dans L'Empire Ottoman, Paris, Centre National De La Reserche Scientifique, 1983. Inalcik, Halil, ""Turkish-Jewish Relations in the Ottoman Empire,"" 1982. Sevilla-Sharon, Moshe, ""Turkiye Yahudileri, Tarihsel Bakis,"" Jerusalem, The Hebrew University, 1982. Source: John Dewey: ""The New Republic,"" Vol. 40, Nov. 12, 1928, pp. 268-9. ""Happy the minority [Jews] which has had no Christian nation to protect it. And one recalls that the Jews took up their abode in 'fanatic' Turkey when they were expelled from Europe, especially Spain, by Saintly Christians, and they have lived here for centuries in at least as much tranquility and liberty as their fellow Turkish subjects, all being exposed alike to the rapacity of their common rulers. To one brought up, as most Americans have been, in the Gladstonian and foreign-missionary tradition, the condition of the Jews in Turkey is almost a mathematical demonstration that religious differences have had an influence in the tragedy of Turkey only as they were combined with aspirations for a political separation which every nation in the world would have treated as treasonable. One readily reaches the conclusion that the Jews in Turkey were fortunate..."" He also stated that: ""they [Armenians] traitorously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invader; that they boasted of having raised an army of one hundred and fifty thousand men to fight a civil war, and that they burned at least a hundred Turkish villages and exterminated their population."" TURKEY AND THE HOLOCAUST An interview with Stanford J. Shaw (History), who recently completed two books: The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish Republic, and Turkey and the Holocaust: Turkey's Role in Rescuing Turkish and European Jewry from Nazi Persecution, 1933-45. Shaw chairs the undergraduate interdepartmental degree program in Near Eastern Studies and has organized the Program for the Study of Ottoman and Turkish Jewry. He is affiliated with the G. E. von Grunebaum Center for Near Eastern Studies. Editor: How did you come to write these two books on Turkey and European and Turkish Jews? Shaw: Basically, I'm an Ottoman historian, but I'm also Jewish. I've spent twenty-five years studying Ottoman history, and as time went along, whenever I found materials on the Ottoman Jews, I collected them. But I never did anything with them until a couple of years ago, when I suddenly realized that 1992 was the 500th anniversary of the Jews being expelled from Spain and coming to Turkey. Then the Sephardic Temple down on Wilshire Avenue invited me to give a series of three lectures on Ottoman Jewry. These lectures were greatly appreciated, and I became motivated to undertake further research to develop a book, The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish) Republic. This book is quite different from the works of most Jewish historians, who tend to look at the Jews in any country more from the viewpoint of the Jews and the Jewish community, and rely mainly on Jewish sources. I view my subject as an Ottoman historian, and I approach the Jews of the Ottoman Empire largely from the point of view of Ottoman society, using largely Ottoman sources. After I finished this book and sent it to the press, I came across additional documents relating to Turkish Jews during World War II. In the completed book, I had said that Turkey had done a good deal to rescue the Jews during World War II, but I did not actually have many details. Then I found a batch of documents in the Foreign Ministry archive relating to actions taken by Turkish diplomats to help the Jews before and during the Holocaust. It was too late to add this new information to the book in press, so I decided to write a second book. I conducted further research, mainly in the archives of the Foreign Ministry in Ankara and the Turkish Embassy and Consulate in Paris. The result was the second book, Turkey and the Holocaust, which details how Turkey helped rescue Jews from the Nazis. - How exactly did they do this? The story takes place over a number of years. The book presents the material in three parts, first of which deals with the period before the Holocaust. When the Nazis came to power in Germany in 1933, they immediately started dismissing Jews and anti-Nazi Germans from universities, hospitals, scientific institutes, and the like. Turkey at that moment was just beginning the process of reforming its universities, and it saw in these Jews, who were being fired from their positions in Germany, a good source of new talent to help modernize the Turkish universities. Within three months after the Nazis started dismissing these Jews, Turkey arranged to take many of them in. They were brought to Turkey and were given appointments as professors in the Turkish universities, as heads of scientific institutes, and as medical personnel in hospitals. About 300 to 500 major Jewish professors came to Turkey in the 1930s. Ernst Reuter, a German political scientist, spent the war years teaching political science in Turkey. After World War II, he was mayor of Berlin during the Berlin Airlift. Fritz Neimark, a major German Jewish economist, came to Turkey and helped establish a modern school of economics in Istanbul. A man named Reichenbach, who was rescued from the Nazis by Turkey and spent the war years in Turkey, eventually came to UCLA, where he became a professor of philosophy. Other German Jewish emigres engaged in cultural activities in Turkey. One such was Karl Ebert, who had been a leading theatrical producer in Berlin until he was expelled by the Nazis. He went to Turkey, where he organized the Turkish National Theater and the Turkish National Opera Company in Ankara, with the help of Paul Hindemuth. So the first section of the book covers this first phase, when Jews were being persecuted in Germany and rescued by Turkey. Oddly enough, the German emigres, when they were in Turkey, did not seem to think too badly of Germany. They regarded themselves more as Germans than Jews, and they did not join in the anti-Nazi activities of the local Turkish Jewish community. I even found letters from the Nazi representatives to Turkey praising these German Jewish refugees for their work in promoting the idea of German culture. Even though these people had been persecuted by the Nazis and rescued by the Turks, they shared the Nazis' feelings of Aryan racial superiority over the Turks. The second part of the book deals with the Holocaust, which began in 1940 when the Nazis occupied France. In Europe at that time, and especially in France, there were about 20,000 Turkish Jews. They had migrated to Europe for various reasons from about the turn of the century onward. Most of them had settled in Europe during the Turkish war for independence after World War I, when Greece was threatening to overrun Turkey. The Greeks had persecuted the Jews throughout the nineteenth century, and the Jews feared what might happen to them if the Greeks took over in Turkey. Many Jews fled to France during the 1920s and 1930s. Many also abandoned their Turkish citizenship and became French citizens. Suddenly the Nazis invaded France in 1940 and started introducing all sorts of anti-Jewish laws. The Turkish Jews soon found that it was not worth very much to be a French Jew, but that it was worth a lot to be a Turkish Jew. - How so? Turkey remained neutral through most of World War II. It retained its embassies and consulates in all the Nazi-occupied countries until it finally entered the war on the side of the Allies at the end of 1944. During the war, therefore, Turkey was in a position to defend its citizens against anti-Jewish measures, and the actions that Turkish diplomats took form the second chapter of the book. Turkish diplomats who were stationed in France in particular intervened to protect Jews of Turkish citizenship from the Nazis. For those Turkish Jews who had retained their Turkish citizenship, there was generally no problem. If they were arrested and sent to a concentration camp, the Turkish diplomats would communicate with the commanders of the camp and other officials and say in effect: ""These people are Turkish citizens. You can't do this to them."" And the Turkish Jews would be released. If their businesses were confiscated, the Turkish diplomats would protest and the businesses would be restored. The Nazis in general wanted to keep the friendship of Turkey. They hoped to be able to use Turkey as a gateway for an invasion of the Middle East, and they also wanted to obtain chromium and manganese from Turkey. In order to keep Turkish friendship, they usually accepted these interventions on behalf of Turkish Jews. The Turkish diplomats sometimes went to the concentration camps to secure the release of Turkish Jews. At times they even boarded trains hauling Turkish Jews to Auschwitz for extermination and succeeded in getting them off the train. Most of the foreign Jews were sent to a concentration camp at a place called Drancy in Paris, and that's where most of the intercession by Turkish consuls took place. The greater problem came with the Turkish Jews who had abandoned their Turkish citizenship and had become French citizens. The consuls couldn't declare that these people were Turkish citizens because they were not. My book includes photographs of Jews lining up in front of the Turkish consulate, either to get passports to return to Turkey or to get a restoration of their Turkish citizenship. This was a bureaucratic matter, so processing the application would take some time. In the meantime it was a real emergency, because the Nazis would arrest Jews on the streets for almost nothing. The Nazis would even arrest them if they had radios or telephones in their apartments, because radios and telephones were forbidden to Jews. To take care of these former Turkish Jews, the Turkish diplomats invented a document called gayri muntazem vatandash, or ""irregular fellow citizen."" The document said in effect ""This person is a former Turkish citizen who has applied for the restoration of his Turkish citizenship. In the meantime we would appreciate it if you would treat him as if he were a Turkish citizen."" The diplomats wrote the document in Turkish and put their seals on it. Since the Nazis could not read Turkish, on the whole they accepted these papers as certificates of citizenship. By this means, the Turkish diplomats were able to rescue many Jews who had relinquished their Turkish citizenship. Actually the Nazis were of two minds about the Turkish defense of Jews. On the one hand the Nazi Foreign Ministry, which wanted to retain the friendship of Turkey, was in favor of accepting these interventions. On the other hand, Himmler and Eichmann wanted all Jews exterminated. At times Himmler and Eichmann were able to prevail and some of the Turkish Jews were sent off to Auschwitz before the Turkish consuls could do anything. - Do you have statistics on how many Turkish Jews were rescued? There were about 20,000 Turkish Jews in Europe before world War II, about 10,000 of whom were living in France. Most of the information in this section of the book relates to the situation in France. I have published the letters that the Turkish consuls sent to the Nazi officials and the letters that came back in reply. Generally the Nazis said that if the Turkish consul would present documents certifying that arrested individuals are Turkish citizens, and promise to send them out of France, the Nazis would release them from the concentration camp. The Turkish consuls also organized special trains to take Turkish Jews from Nazi-occupied territory back to Turkey. These trains ran regularly in 1943 and 1944. The Nazis gave the Turkish Jews visas so they could pass out of Nazi territory, but the trains were often held up by the Nazi-influenced governments of Eastern Europe - Croatia, Serbia, and Bulgaria - because these governments really didn't want the Jews to escape. As a result of the Turkish consuls' efforts, about 3,000 to 4,000 of the Turkish Jews in France were saved. Another 3,000 were sent off to Auschwitz, where most of them died. The remaining 3,000 either escaped across the border into Spain or fled to the area of southern France occupied by the Italians, who treated Jews much better than the Nazis did. At the end of 1943, however, Italy fell out of the war, and that was the end for those Jews as well. Incidentally, the Turkish diplomats in Nazi-occupied Greece also worked to rescue Jews in that country. - The second part of your book then deals with Turkish diplomats acting to rescue Jews of Turkish citizenship or Turkish origin from Nazi persecution. Yes, and there is an aside I might add here: In their interventions on behalf of Turkish Jews, the Turks cited their treaty with Germany which stated that Turkish citizens in German territory would be treated the same as German citizens in Turkey. On that basis the Turks maintained that the Nazis could not discriminate against Turkish citizens who are Jews. The Nazis claimed (and the Vichy government agreed) that they were not discriminating because they were treating all Jews equally. Turkey protested, saying, ""You are dividing our citizens according to religion, but the Turkish constitution requires that all citizens be treated equally, regardless of religion. Therefore, you cannot single out Turkish Jews."" American consuls in Paris, by contrast, accepted the Nazi argument and told American Jews who were being persecuted by the Nazis that they couldn't do anything about it, because the American Jews were being treated the same as other Jews. The third part of the book takes place in Turkey, which was the principal center during the Holocaust for activities aimed at the rescue of Eastern European Jews. The kwish Agency, an organization established by Jews in Palestine to help resettle Jews to Palestine, set up an office in Istanbul in 1940 under the leadership of Chaim Barlas. Other Jewish organizations in Palestine, especially the kibbutzes, also sent representatives to Istanbul to set up headquarters. These groups first tried to contact Jews in Eastern Europe to find out what was happening. Today we know about the Holocaust, but at that time people didn't know what was going on. They didn't imagine the Nazis could do the things they were doing. And so the first step was to get information, and the Turkish government let them use the Turkish mails to send letters to their relatives and friends in Eastern Europe. The Jewish organizations found out what was happening when they received replies. Later on when the Nazis began to intercept such letters, the Jews received assistance also from the Vatican nuncio, Angelo Roncali, who served as the Vatican representative in Istanbul from 1935 to 1944 and later became Pope John XXIII. As the Vatican representative during the war, he used the facilities of the Catholic Church to supplement what the Turkish government was doing to assist Jewish agencies in contacting Jews in Eastern Europe. With the cooperation of the Turkish government, these agencies then sent hard currency, food, clothing, and even railroad and steamship tickets to Jews in Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary. They weren't able to help much in Poland because by then the Nazis had wiped out almost all the Polish Jews. Whenever possible the rescue agencies arranged for the Jews to get out of Eastern Europe either by train through the so called Orient Express route to Istanbul, or by boat through the Black Sea to Istanbul. Turkey was not eager for all these refugees to remain within its borders during the war, because it was being blockaded and was suffering terrible shortages of food and clothing. The government, therefore, facilitated the movement of the non-Turkish Jewish refugees from Turkey to Palestine, either by the Taurus Express Railroad through the mountains to Syria and Palestine, or by small boats across the eastern Mediterranean from southern Turkey to Palestine. These efforts were bitterly opposed not only by the Nazis, but also by the British, who did not want any more Jewish immigration to Palestine because they feared it would hurt their relations with the Arabs. The British constantly pressured the Turkish government to stop this traffic and send those Jews back. In a few cases the Turkish government, yielding to British pressure, did send the boats back. For example, in one incident, the steamship Struma, with some 700 Jewish refugees from Romania, was sent back by the Turkish government as a result of the intervention of the British ambassador. When that ship was sunk by a Soviet submarine, all were lost except one person. Nevertheless, all told, the Turkish government allowed no fewer than 100,000 Eastern European Jews to pass through Turkish territory and move on to Palestine during the Second World War. The Turkish authorities also provided these refugees with facilities and money, and gave them permission to send money and food out of the country. - Many of these Jews who passed through Turkey may still be living in Israel. Yes, and their children. But let's return for a moment to the first group, the Turkish Jews who came from Europe. They did not go on to Palestine; they stayed in Turkey. It was the non-Turkish, Eastern European Jews who passed through Turkey en route to Palestine. Their story is very interesting. - And you have rescued it from obscurity. Many studies have been made of the Holocaust, but most of them do not focus on the Eastern European or Middle Eastern Jews. Most of the scholarship has centered on the Western European Jews, of whom 6 million were massacred by the Nazis. My study deals with a much smaller number of people. I have tried to round out the picture, and I hope my book will persuade other scholars to undertake further investigations in the history of Eastern Jews. When it comes to numbers, the German Jews were also relatively small in number. Most of the millions slain were Polish Jews. The rescue of 100,000 Eastern European Jews may not seem so significant compared with the total of 6 million who were murdered, but it meant a lot to those who were saved. About three-fourths of the book consists of documents - translations of many documents. They are included because the story is not well known. Not only are people in the West unaware of the courageous actions of the Turkish diplomats; even the people of Turkey did not know the story. I felt that they would not fully understand this remarkable achievement unless they could see the documents. - What languages are used in the documents? Most of them are in Turkish or French; some are in Hebrew. There is a great deal of material in Hebrew about the organization of the boats going to Palestine, the passengers, and so on, but I did not go into those details extensively. I describe mostly what Turkey did, so most of my documents are in Turkish or French. A few documents are in English. The Jewish groups in Istanbul did not necessarily cooperate with one another to rescue Jews; in fact, they often fought with one another. They took turns trying to get the Turkish government to deport rival groups. For example, some of the kibbutz groups felt that the Jewish Agency was run by Western European Jews who were interested only in helping Western European Jews. Finally, in 1944, President Roosevelt sent a personal representative, Ira Hirschman, who had been an executive of Bloomingdale's department store in New York City, and Hirschman managed to reconcile their differences. The documents related to his mission are in English. I also obtained many documents from Serge Klarsfeld, a Holocaust historian in France, who mainly worked on the French Jews. (His father was killed by the Nazis.) He gave me materials he had gathered in the German archives on the Turkish Jews, so I didn't personally consult the German archives. I believe that much more can be learned from the German archives, and I hope someone someday will make the effort. - This new book fits in well with your teaching, doesn't it? Right. I'm giving a course on the history of the Jews of the Ottoman Empire. I first gave the course two years ago. In addition to research, writing, and teaching, I've been actively involved in the commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the coming of the Jews to the Ottoman Empire. Among other things, I helped organize a large international conference on the subject which was held in Istanbul in 1992. - Now that your books are finished and the conference has taken place, what do you plan to do next? I'm working on two new books. One is a history of the Turkish War for Independence, which took place after World War I, during the years 1918 to 1923. The Turks warded off the efforts of the victorious European powers to occupy Turkey and end its independence. The second book is a study of Sultan Abdul Hamid II, the last major sultan, who ruled from 1876 to 1909. He was an important modernizer in his own way, although he also suppressed all sorts of political movements. Stanford J. Shaw received a B.A. in History and an M.A. in British History. He then shifted to Near Eastern History, earning a second M.A. and a Ph.D. at Princeton. As a doctoral candidate at Princeton, he spent two years abroad, studying at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London; the University of Cairo, the American University at Cairo, and the University of Istanbul. He taught at Harvard before coming to UCLA in 1966. His postdoctoral research has been supported by the John Simon Guggenheim Foundation, the American Research Institute in Turkey, the Social Science Research Council, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the Fulbright Program, and ISOP. He has received honorary degrees from Harvard University and Bosporus University, Bebek, Istanbul, Turkey, and medals of honor for lifetime contributions to the fields of Islamic and Turkish studies from the Center for Research in Islamic History, Art, and Culture in Istanbul and from the American Friends of Turkey in Washington, D.C. In addition to undertaking many professional service activities and public lectures in both the United States and Turkey, Shaw has also produced eight books and one edited volume. His History of the Ottoman Empire and Modem Turkey (2 vols.) has been published in many editions (six editions or reprints from 1977-1991), and translated into Turkish (1983, 1991) and French (1984). His book The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish Republic (MacMillan, London, and New York University Press, 1992) will be published in Turkish translation by the Turkish Historical Society, Istanbul. His Turkey and the Holocaust: Turkey's Role in Rescuing Turkish and European Jewry from Nazi Persecution, 1933-1945 will be published by Macmillan Publishers, London, and New York University Press in 1993. A pamphlet summarizing the book was published in Ankara, Turkey, in 1992. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Peace Run '93 Welcome to the Peace Run You're invited to join in a Global Relay Run... and help light the Way. ---- Why the Peace Run ---- There's a new spirit in the Nineties: a spirit of oneness, a growing belief in the possibility of true global peace. The goal of the Sri Chinmoy Oneness-Home Peace Run is simple: to bring this spirit forward in a concrete way, to transform it into a reality in their own lives. Every other year, thousands of men, women and children from more than 70 nations - passing a flaming Peace Torch from hand to hand - join together in a relay run that virtually circles the globe. Transcending political and cultural boundaries, they go from nation to nation - across mountains, jungles and deserts - carrying the message of brotherhood to all humankind. Each person who holds or runs with the Peace Torch lights a path for those who follow. Each time the Peace Torch changes hands, the flame of oneness burns a little brighter - until one day it will shine in the hearts and minds of every individual on earth. ---- Making History ---- The three Peace Runs since 1987 have achieved some historic break- throughs: in the Middle East, a landmark run crossed the Egyptian- Israeli border; in Europe, a precedent-setting run linked Eastern and Western Europe with Russia; in the United States, Mexico and Canada, entire cities were dedicated to the cause of world peace; and in Poland, the Peace Torch was blessed by Pope John Paul II. ---- Speaking as One: World ---- ---- Leaders, Celebrities - and You ---- The Peace Run has won the support of leaders the world over - Presidents, Prime Ministers, religious leaders, sports figures and entertainment personalities. Its message has spread to a half billion people though newspaper reports, magazine articles and radio and TV broadcasts, including specials on PBS, MTV and NBC's Today Show. > ""I am happy to support your Peace Run for justice, peace and reconciliation. The world must know that God wants us to live amicably as brothers and sisters, members of one family, the human family, God's family."" - Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Nobel Peace Prize Winner ---- How It All Works ---- Peace Run 1993 started with a five-borrough relay in New York City on Saturday April 17, converging at various points to lead up to the opening ceremony outside the United Nations Dag Hammarskjold Building. There, runners from around the world were gathered for the fourth lighting of the Peace Torch. From there, Peace Torches are now being transported to over seventy countries for a series of concurrent international or cross-country relay runs including the United States, Canada, Japan, Australia, Russia and Eastern and Western Europe. Smaller runs will take place in the Philippines, Mexico, Israel, South America, Egypt and elsewhere in Africa. Distance to be covered: 31,000 miles. >""The Peace Run wil do much to inspire the hearts and stimulate the minds of those who support, participate in, witness, or hear about the event."" - Carl Lewis, Six-Time Olympic Gold Medalist ---- Who's Behind It ---- The Peace Run is sponsored by the Sri Chinmoy Marathon Team, an international running organization that believes sports can be a powerful instrument for promoting world peace. Each year the Team puts on hundreds of athletic events, including several world-class ultramarathons, marathons and triathlons, in dozens of countries. The Peace Run itself is inspired by the global peace ambassador Sri Chinmoy, who has written and lectured extensively on peace, offered hundreds of free peace concerts and met with countless world figures to advance the cause of international harmony. The Run is managed by Peace Runs International, a non-profit organization based in the United States. ---- Take a Step For Peace ---- The Peace Runs in 1987, 1989 and 1991 attracted nearly half a million participants. We're expecting even more people to join Peace Run '93. You can also join the Run - carrying the Peace Torch a few steps, a few blocks or a few miles. Or you can come out and cheer the runners as they carry the Torch through your community. You can also join local celebrities and government officials in one of the thousands of welcoming ceremonies scheduled along the 70-nation route. Your inner support is important too. If you're a runner, each time you go out, you can dedicate your run to the cause of world peace. ---- The Next Step is Yours ---- ---- Make It One For Peace ---- For information contact: Peace Runs International 161-44 Normal Road Jamaica, NY 11432 USA tel. 718/291-6637 Fax: 718/291-6978 Peace Run Canada 2456 Agricola Street Halifax, Nova Scotia B3K 4C2 tel. 902/425-1174 Fax: 902/420-0773 or for the phone number or address of a Peace Run office in your town or country, reply to this message by e-mail. ",19 "Hard Copy --- Hot Pursuit!!!! Yo, did anybody see this run of HARD COPY? I guy on a 600 Katana got pulled over by the Police (I guess for speeding or something). But just as the cop was about to step out of the car, the dude punches it down an interstate in Georgia. Ang then, the cop gives chase. Now this was an interesting episode because it was all videotaped!!! Everything from the dramatic takeoff and 135mph chase to the sidestreet battle at about 100mph. What happened at the end? The guy (who is being relentless chased down box the cage with the disco lights) slows a couple of times to taunt the cop. After blowing a few stop signs and making car jump to the side, he goes up a dead end street. The Kat, although not the latest machine, is still a high performance machine and he slams on the brakes. Of couse, we all know that cages, especially the ones with the disco lights, can't stop as fast as our high performance machines. So what happens?... The cage plows into the Kat. Luckily for this dude, he was wearing a helmet and was not hurt. But dude, how crazy can you get!?! Yeah, we've all went out and played cat and mouse with our friends but, with a cop!!???!!! How crazy can you get!?!?! It took just one look at a ZX-7 who tried this crap to convince me not to try any shit like that. (Although the dude collided with a car head on at 140 mph, the Kawasaki team colors still looked good!!! Just a few scratches, like no front end.... 3 inch long engine and other ""minor"" scratches...) If you guys are out there, please, slow it down. I not being an advocate for the cages (especially the ones that make that annoying ass noises...), but just think... The next time you punched it (whether you have an all mighty ZX-11 or a ""I can do it"" 250 Ninja), just remember, a kid could step out at any time. Peace & ride (kinda) safe. Warren -- ""Have Suzuki, Will travel..."" WCD82671@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ""What's the big deal about riding one of these. I'm only going... 95!?!?!"" - Annie (Robotech) ",8 "Re: re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article <1slalp$ls2@tamsun.tamu.edu> jeffw@cs.tamu.edu (Jeffrey A Waller) writes: >In article <1993May10.053122.13593@microsoft.com>, jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes: >|> In article bferrell@ant.occ.uc.edu (Brett Ferrell) writes: >|> >In article <1993May07.201242.1449@microsoft.com> cliffga@microsoft.com (Clifford Garrett) writes: >|> >>/I guess thats why there are so many new DOS and OS/2 applications >|> >>/coming and hardly any Windows apps coming out? (irony) >|> >> >|> >>Yep, the os/2 apps are comming, the os/2 apps are comming. >|> > >|> >Yet another Micro-minion hoping that if he says something long enough, >|> > >|> Hey, I remember the good old days running OS/2 2.0 alpha with Brief, >|> Excel, Word, and a couple internal apps (product support database >|> client, OS/2-based email front-end). Life was good. But it was also >|> impractical 'cause the masses were using Windows and my job was to help >|> the masses. > >Apparently you prefer OS/2 to Windows or at least did; To windows 3.0, yes. >by you last comment >do you mean that your knowledge of OS/2 is dated (it must be) or argue It's definitely dated - I used OS/2 1.21, & alpha 2.0 (when msft was developing it...) >I suspect that the masses were using Windows because they couldn't afford >to use OS/2, can you say as much for NT? I preferred Windows 3.1 because it was more stable & faster than 3.0, but could still run more apps than OS/2 (again I made this choice before 2.0 was released). >But getting back to the original question, do you have any data on the >relative avaliablity or Windows applications versus OS/2 applications >or any evidence that stated support will be dropped by any of the above? No, I've seen no such data. >|> >Grow up. Other companies are supporting OS/2. Make points please. >|> >|> If you see life in terms of debating points, I think you need >|> to grow up. > >Ah yes I remember the days when we kids would engage in orderly debate, >but our parents would usually find out and force us to act in the more >mature manner of heaping invective and casting rocks and dirt clods. hee hee. good one ;> ;> >|> >It doesn't help Microsoft >|> >to have employees (I assume you are, due to the ORG, may be wrong) saying >|> >such trivial things on the net. >|> >|> So? >|> Microsoft employs over 10,000 employees. Walking into this place is >|> not like walking into the ""1984"" commercial. There are individuals >|> here. You think they'll all talk the same way, say the same thing, >|> and ""help Microsoft"" all the time? If so, WHY? > >It appears to me that he is voicing his frustration to an attitude >he has encountered before. ...and one that I've encountered as well... >I on the other hand have had no such >experience other than from reading this thread. You at Microsoft >are in a unique position to present facts, Hmm. Are you sure? I'm speaking from my own experience as an OS/2 _user_. Certainly people in, say, the NT marketing group would be in a unique position to present the results of, say, research on upcoming NT and OS/2 apps (vs Windows and MS-DOS apps). Part of my point was that just cause one works at microsoft does not mean one has access to such data (if it exists). >but prefer to make baseless claims or attack to poster. I must >make the same conclusion as he. I will confess to, at times, attacking the poster. >|> USENET accounts are not restricted to the marketroids. They're >|> open to any fulltimer, and are primarily for recreational purposes. >|> Yeah, some of us are likely to answer a question or hop into a >|> debate. Or make stupid comments. You know, like human beings? > >I'm sorry this newsgroup is only for opressed hackers and stranded >extraterrestrials, not humans. How about alt.microsoft.humans? You >seem to discount others anyway. Again, my point was that not all microsofties are here to ""sell"" readers on our products (which would conflict with the ""no-ads"" philosophy of usenet). Nor do we necessarily have access to info that others have. I also get tired of people assuming that microsofties are, like, members of the BORG. -jen -- #include // jenk@microsoft.com // msdos testing ",2 "Re: Can Radio Freq. Be Used To Measure Distance? Robert G. Carpenter (rgc3679@bcstec.ca.boeing.com) wrote: : I'm wondering if it's possible to use radio waves to measure the : distance between a transmitter(s) and receiver? : : Seems to me that you should be able to measure the signal strength : and determine distance. This would be for short distances (2000 ft), : and I would need to have accuracy of 6 inches, or so. : -------------------- You might try looking at whats available in laser locating systems. They work best for close work( 1 mile and under). RF is used for much longer distances in two major modes. Transponder and phase measurment. Transponder requires you send a pulse to another station and it returns it to you and you measure the round trip time minus the receiver time. Phase measurements require two or more transmitting stations sending the same frequency signal multiplexed in time. A receiver can pick them up and measure the phase shift between signals. Maps can be drawn that plot the Lines of Position that correspond to a certain phase shift between two stations. John Eaton !hp-vcd!johne ",12 "GOT MY BIKE! (was Wanted: Advice on CB900C Purchase) -- Thanks to all of you who gave advice on the CB900 Custom. As recommended, I had the bike compression tested. Compression was a little low, but very even across the four cylinders (+/- 5 psi). They said that it was tested a little cold, so that would explain the low numbers (around 90). Does this sound right? Otherwise, the bike looked great. No signs of road rash, and no rust. This bike looks great! It is now in the shop getting tuned and new tires. I am opting for the Metzler ME55 and ME33 tires (thanks to those who posted this other thread). This bike is _BIG_ compared to my other bikes. ( Sure is alot harder to load on a trailer than the KDX200 was. ) I should be road legal tomorrow. I am ignoring the afforementioned concerns about the transmission and taking my chances. Being a reletively new reader, I am quite impressed with all the usefull info available on this newsgroup. I would ask how to get my own DoD number, but I'll probably be too busy riding ;-). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | |\/\/\/| ___________________ | | | | / \ | | | | / Jamie W. Burnside \ | | | (o)(o) ( jburnside@ll.mit.edu ) | | C _) / \_____________________/ | | | ,___| / | | | / | | / __\ | | / \ | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ",8 "Re: Societally acceptable behavior In article , cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: |> In <1r4ioh$44t@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) |> writes: |> > |>In article , cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike >|> Cobb) writes: |> >|> |> >|> This doesn't seem right. If I want to kill you, I can because that is |> what I |> >|> decide? |> |> >Sounds as though you are confused between ""what I want"" and ""what |> >I think is morally right"". |> |> >jon. |> |> |> What do you mean? Would your idea still apply if I said I think it is ok to |> kill you because that is what I decided? What I mean is what I said. ""What I want"" does not automatically translate into ""what I think is right."" That is, it does not translate that way for me. If you reply that ""I think it is ok to kill you because that is what I decided"" then what that means is that for you ""What I want"" does translate into ""what I think is right"". It just doesn't translate that way for me. jon. ",0 "Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?) In article noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: >In article rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind) writes: >>There is no convincing evidence that such a disease exists. >There's a lot of evidence, it just hasn't been adequately gathered and >published in a way that will convince the die-hard melancholic skeptics >who quiver everytime the word 'anecdote' or 'empirical' is used. No, there's no evidence that would convince any but the most credulous. The ""evidence"" is identical to the sort of evidence that has been used to justify all sorts of quack treatments for quack diseases in the past. >medicine on the right road. But methinks that some who hold too firmly >to the party line are academics who haven't been in the trenches long enough >actually treating patients. I like the implication here. It must not be that the quacks making millions off such ""diseases"" are biased -- rather that those who doubt their existence don't understand the real world. It seems easy to picture a 19th centure snake oil salesman saying the same thing. However, I have been in the trenches long enough to have seen multiple quack diseases rise and fall in popularity. ""Systemic yeast syndome"" seems to be making a resurgence (it had fallen off a few years ago). There will be new such ""diseases"" I'm sure with best-selling books and expensive therapies. >If anybody, doctors included, said to me to my >face that there is no evidence of the 'yeast connection', I cannot guarantee >their safety. For their incompetence, ripping off their lips is justified as >far as I am concerned. Well this, of course, is convincing. I guess I'd better start diagnosing any illnesses that people want so that I can keep my lips. -- David Rind rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu ",13 "Re: Sinus vs. Migraine (was Re: Sinus Endoscopy) In article <1993Mar26.001004.10983@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes: > >By the way, does the brain even have pain receptors? I thought not--I heard >that brain surgery can be performed while the patient is conscious for >precisely this reason. > No, no, we aren't talking about receptors for the brain's sensory innervation, but structures such as the thalamus that handle pain for the entire organism. Apples and oranges. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "TG-16 Games for sale/trade I have the following games for sale/trade. Make an offer. Hu-Cards: R-Type Sidearms Alien Crush Neutopia Tricky Kick Ninja Spirit Somer Assault CD: Lords of the Rising Sun Sherlock Holmes -- brian oplinger@ra.crd.ge.com <#include standard.disclaimer> ",6 "Re: Bernadette Dates |JEK@cu.nih.gov writes: |Joe Moore writes: | | > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at | > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception. | > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the | > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed | > the case for the doctrine. |Bernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858, |four years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the |Pope. | | Yours, | James Kiefer I forgot exactly what her age was but I remember clearly that she was born in a family of poverty and she did not have any education, whatsoever, at the age of the apparitions. She suffered from asthma at that age and she and her family were living in a prison cell of some sort. She had to ask the 'Lady' several times in her apparitions about what her name was since her confessor priest asked her to do so. For several instances, the priest did not get an answer since Bernadette did not receive any. One time, after several apparitions passed, The Lady finally said, ""I am the Immaculate Conception"". So, Bernadette, was so happy and repeated these words over and over in her mind so as not to forget it before she told the priest who was asking. So, when she told the priest, the priest was shocked and asked Bernadette, ""Do you know what you are talking about?"". Bernadette did not know what exactly it meant but she was just too happy to have the answer for the priest. The priest continued with, ""How did you remember this if you do not know?"". Bernadette answered honestly that she had to repeat it over and over in her mind while on her way to the priest... The priest knew about the dogma being four years old then. But Bernadette did not know and yet she had the answer which the priest finally observed and took as proof of an authentic personal revelation of Our Lady to Bernadette. (Note: This Lady of Lourdes shrine has a spring of water which our lady requested Bernadette to dig up herself with her bare hands in front of pilgrims. At the start little water flowed but after several years there is more water flowing.) -Marida ""...spreading God's words through actions..."" -Mother Teresa -- -Marida (maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com) ",15 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. In article <1rbl0eINNip4@gap.caltech.edu>, palmer@cco.caltech.edu (David M. Palmer) writes: > prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: > > > What evidence indicates that Gamma Ray bursters are very far away? > > >Given the enormous power, i was just wondering, what if they are > >quantum black holes or something like that fairly close by? > > >Why would they have to be at galactic ranges? > . . . David gives good explaination of the deductions from the isotropic, 'edged' distribution, to whit, they are either part of the Universe or part of the Oort cloud. Why couldn't they be Earth centred, with the edge occuring at the edge of the gravisphere? I know there isn't any mechanism for them, but there isn't a mechanism for the others either. Keith Harwood. ",14 "Re: Radar detector DETECTORS? In article <1pslckINNmn0@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, nhowland@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Neal Patrick Howland) writes... > >From what I understand about radar dectectors all they are is a passive >device much like the radio in your car. They work as an antenna picking >up that radar signals that the radar gun sends out. Therefore there would >be no way of detecting a radar detector any more than there would be of >detecting whether some one had a radio in their car. > From my rather rusty knowledge of radio, most radio receivers use a superhet circuit, so that the incoming signal is mixed with a local oscillator, giving a fixed intermediate frequency (IF) that is more easily amplified. The detector detectors work by picking up IF re-radiated from your radar detector. In Britain, where one has/used to pay for a TV licence, there are/were TV detector vans prowling the streets, looking for people who hadn't paid their licence fee. They had a couple of long solenoid antennae on the roof, and I believe could triangulate an operating TV from the IF. I wonder how much of the IF is radiated back from the detector antenna, and how much from the rest of the module. It might be worth putting the detector in a proper RF shielded enclosure. -- Andrew Daviel, Vancouver, Canada finger advax@reg.triumf.ca for PGP key ",12 "Re: cd300 question In article h01sav.dsyibm.desy.de (Michael M. Savitski) writes: > Hi, there! > I have a MAC LC and consider buying CD300. I've been told, > however, that: > 1. The double speed of CD300 is achievable only on machines > with SCSI-2. Wrong, the CD300 (external) is just a plain ol' SCSI device. > 2. The double speed is a prerequisite for PhotoCD multisession > capability, which I need. No, multisession capability and double speed are two different thing. Its just that the newer CD ROM drives have both capability. Multisession means that when you put more pictures on a photo CD after the first session, the drive can read and display them. Double speeds just transfer ANY type of data (excluding sound) at around double the speed. > 3. Which means I seem to gain nothing compared with, say CD150. CD150 is not multisession capable. This means that you lose the ability to add any more pictures after the first time (must buy a new CD). Finally, since the CD150 is not a double speed drive, it will require twice as long to transfer data (excluding sound). > Michael M. Savitski Tel: (040) 8998-3560 > DESY-Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron Fax: (040) 8998-3093 > Notkestr. 85, D2000 Hamburg 52, Germany (040) 8994-4385 > Internet : h01sav@dsyibm.desy.de > DECNET : VXDESY::SAVITSKI > =================================================================== ",4 "Re: Clipper considered harmful > > Criminals who very badly want inscrutable tactical communications > >(specifically the terrorists and drug dealers who proponents of key escrow > >cite as threats) will be highly motivated to steal the cipher phone of > >a legitimate user, and to kill this person or hold them hostage so > >discovery of compromise of the device will be delayed. >Why doing it in such a rough manner? It is much more professional to >steal the chip from the phone and even to replace it with a >pin-compatible do-nothing chip that does not encrypt at all. Chances >are that the victim will not notice anything, especially if it is done >professionally. Assuming that the bad guys can easily obtain substitute chips which don't cause any noticeable effect to either the user or the person at the other end of the line (if there is any significant difficulty to obtaining such chips, some of the criminals will decide to fall back on the murder/kidnap method). > > Once a suitable collection of devices is stolen, criminals can communicate > >with impunity (assuming the cipher system carries no trapdoors apart from > >key escrow) until and unless the compromise is discovered by some other > >means. > No, because the Feds will still be able to decrypt the conversations. >True, they'll blame the wrong guys, but nevertheless one cannot say >something like ""The drugs arrive tommorrow on the ship 'Terminus'"" >when the Feds are listening, even if they cannot identify who the >speaker is. This assumes that the Feds are tapping Clipper phones belonging to ordinary citizens (getting such a phone is the whole point of the crime under discussion). To be sure, I wouldn't put it past them -- but raising the possibility of such crime has the benefit of forcing the Feds to either 'fess up about such intentions in advance or state that using Clipper exposes the user to an additional criminal threat. > No, the criminals will just use some secure encryption. The new >proposal does not stop criminals; it ensures that the government will >be able to wiretap the average citizen and stops the casual snooper. >To me, it also clearly looks as a step towards outlawing any other >strong encryption devices. Agreed. ",11 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes: >In article lis450bw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (lis450 Student) writes: >>Hmmmm. Define objective morality. Well, depends upon who you talk to. >>Some say it means you can't have your hair over your ears, and others say >>it means Stryper is acceptable. _I_ would say that general principles >>of objective morality would be listed in one or two places. >>Ten Commandments >>Sayings of Jesus >>the first depends on whether you trust the Bible, >>the second depends on both whether you think Jesus is God, and whether >> you think we have accurate copies of the NT. >Gong! >Take a moment and look at what you just wrote. First you defined >an ""objective"" morality and then you qualified this ""objective"" morality >with subjective justifications. Do you see the error in this? >Sorry, you have just disqualified yourself, but please play again. >>MAC >> >eric Huh? Please explain. Is there a problem because I based my morality on something that COULD be wrong? Gosh, there's a heck of a lot of stuff that I believe that COULD be wrong, and that comes from sources that COULD be wrong. What do you base your belief on atheism on? Your knowledge and reasoning? COuldn't that be wrong? MAC -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",0 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <15437@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: |> You might -- except that gay men are MUCH more promiscuous than |> straight men -- which shows how damaged and screwed up gay men are. |> Excuse me a moment when I laugh my head off... I defy you to prove your statement ""damaged and screwed up"". You can't? Oh dear. Your argument, once again, Mr Logic(NOT!), falls flat on its face. Take a course in civil behaviour and logic. Then come back and defend your arguments. |> -- |> Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! |> Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. -- +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) | | eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! | +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",18 "Re: Ulf and all... jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio) writes: >In article <1qmpfa$qna@alpha.db.erau.edu> drozinst@db.erau.edu (Drozinski Tim) writes: >>I AM an Ulf (and Pgh) fan, and what pisses me off about the whole Adam Graves/ >>Ulf Samuesson debate is that Ulf plays hard-hitting hockey (nothing wrong with >>that) while Graves does what he does when the only way to win a game is to >>intentionally hurt someone (which bites!). >Jeesus... I never thought I'd see the day when I defended a Ranger.... >You obviously don't watch much hockey if you think that Graves is a >goon. He is one of the hardest working Rangers (check that-- THE >hardest working Ranger). He had 36 goals this year (not bad for a >checking type of player), and showed up for every single game this >season (unlike that stiff Messier). He is fearless, and throws CLEAN >checks. He will also stand up to someone after he hits them, not like >that pussy Oaf. Exactly my point. If you'd watch games more closely, you'd see a lot of goons going after him. Ulf is one of the main reasons why less physical players for Pgh are left alone. Ulf plays rough hockey, but only when other players are putting the rush on Mario or Jagr. If you want to say anyone on the Penguins is a cheap shot or a goon, say it's Jennings or Caufield. Don'tslander a good defenseman because your favorite players can't beat the Pens even when they take dives (like Gartner) to try for the cheap penalties. >As for his slash of Lemieux, fine. It was a cheap shot. It is the >exception, not the rule. I bet you think Mike Gartner is a goon >because of the time that he slashed the hell out of Oaf's arm last >year, right? After all, he did get a suspension for it... Hey, that's fine! If a player does something stupid, he should be penalized including Ulf. Or Mario (you're not likely to see that happen) or anyone else for that matter. It's pointless to say any one person is a cheap-shot goon, because you'll see EVERYONE take a cheap shot now and then, especially if you'resomeone who is shadowed as much as Ulf is. >-JPC >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >John P. Curcio Go Bruins! Philips Laboratories >jpc@philabs.philips.com 345 Scarborough Road >(914) 945-6442 Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510 ********************************************************************************Tim Drozinski drozinst@db.erau.edu ""Chew electric death, snarling cur!"" Spaceman Spiff ",10 "<><><> WANTED: TG-16 Games --- 2 Player or More <><><> Well, the title says it all...I'm looking to buy cheap used TG-16 Gmaes which have 2 or more player support (Simultaneous).... Please email me all offers with a price... Rohit ",6 "Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? In article reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu writes: >The basic problem with your argument is your total and complete reliance on >the biblical text. Luke's account is highly suspect (I would refer you to >the hermeneia commentary on Acts). ... In article , ata@hfsi.hfsi.com ( John Ata) writes: > Even if there was no independent proof that Luke's account was > valid, I find it strange that you would take the negation of it as > truth without any direct historical evidence (at least that you've > mentioned) to back it up. The assertion was made, unequivocally > that no Christian ever sufferred for their faith by believing in > the Resurrection. Luke's account suggests otherwise, and in the > absence of direct eyewitnesses who can claim that Luke is mistaken, > then I suggest that this unequivocal assertion is suspect. > John, The problem here is that you have taken one peice of my response, without bothering to connect it with the other parts. I have repeatedly noted that one needs to take the problematic historcity of acts and then examine the work of John Dominic Crossan and Burton Mack. Once you have taken the time to examine recent developments in biblical scholarship, I think you will grasp more clearly what I am saying. > [I think the original claim may have been somewhat more limited than > this. It was an answer to the claim that the witnesses couldn't > be lying because they were willign to suffer for their beliefs. > Thus it's not necessary to show that no Christian ever suffered > for believing in the Resurrection. Rather the issue is whether > those who witnessed it did. > > I do agree that the posting you're responding to shows that there > can be liberal as well as conservative dogmatism. > > --clh] Certainly this is an issue as I think the situation in Waco shows most clearly. If all that is required is that people are willing to die for a belief for it to be true, then surely David Koresh is the son of God. No, the spurrious arguement that the resurrection had to be true for people to be willing to die must be put to rest. The other problem is that it is so monologocentric. Even if the resurrection was a big deal (which it doesn't seem to have been for either Q, Thomas, or even John to a certain degree) there are a lot of other things which the Early Christians could have been doing together that would have been worth dying for. It is my belief that even the idea of a mixed race community, which brought down regional/national boundaries in the name of koinonia could have been enough for people to be willing to die. Radical communties do that (e.g. Jonestown, Waco, Warsaw, etc) But my original point was that roman persecution (which is the only persecution we have documented proof of) was not about whether a carpenter came back from the dead. Such a claim was not unique nor particularly abhorent to the roman or greek mind. My point is that avoidance of military and civic duty (i.e. emperor worship) would have been much more problematic -- which has nothing to do with the resurrection at all. When nero used christians as human torches to light up his dinner party it wasn't because the believe in a risen savior, it was because they were supposedly involved in incest and cannablism. The argument that christians were martyred for the resurrection just cannot stand up to critical examination. randy ",15 "Re: Cults Vs. Religions? mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes: > To the media, ""religion"" and ""cult"" have about the same relative > connotations as ""government"" and ""terrorist group"". Yes, each is a form of the other. Charley an anarchist? No, just true words being spoken in jest. mathew ",0 "Re: Zeos Computers mspeed@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Matthew P. Speed) writes: > I am looking at purchasing a 486 system from Zeos computers. I would appreciate > if people could give me some feedback about the quality of their products and > customer service along with any advice about which systems people like. > Thanks in advance. > > I bought a 386DX33 system a little over 2 years ago, and was satisfied with everything about Zeos. That computer went off to grad school with my son and I replaced it with a 486DX2/66 pkg 4 (345 MBHD, 16MB ram) with Diamond Viper, 128K level 2 cache, and tower upgrades, delete the CTX monitor. I got a 17"" HP D1193A monitor employee purchase. This is a *great* system, fast, quiet, solidly built, not a single glitch bringing it up. Tech support seems busier now than 2 years ago. I called with a configuration question, and they called back 4 hours later with the right answer. I think there's a slight premium over Gateway prices, but IMHO Zeos is worth it. BTW they have enough 800 lines that I've never gotten a busy signal calling sales, customer service, or tech support. Now, you usually wait 5 or 10 minutes to talk to someone, but at least you get in the queue and wait on their dime. -- Al DeVilbiss al@col.hp.com ",3 "No No Box BOSTON (0) AT SEATTLE (7) BOSTON AB R H BI SEATTLE AB R H BI RILES 2B 3 0 0 0 FELDER LF 4 0 1 1 QUINTANA RF 2 0 0 0 COTTO DH 3 0 0 0 GREENWELL LF 3 0 0 0 SASSER PH 1 0 0 0 DAWSON DH 3 0 0 0 GRIFFEY JR CF 4 0 0 0 M VAUGHN 1B 3 0 0 0 BUHNER RF 3 1 0 0 CALDERON CF 3 0 0 0 BOONE 2B 4 2 3 2 COOPER 3B 3 0 0 0 T MARTINEZ 1B 3 1 1 0 JOHN VALENTIN SS 3 0 0 0 BLOWERS 3B 4 1 2 1 PENA C 3 0 0 0 VALLE C 4 1 2 2 VIZQUEL SS 4 1 2 0 TOTALS 26 0 0 0 TOTALS 34 7 11 6 BOSTON 000 000 000-- 0 SEATTLE 022 102 00x-- 7 E--GREENWELL. DP--BOSTON 1, SEATTLE 1. LOB--BOSTON 1, SEATTLE 6. HR--BOONE (1) (OFF HESKETH). SB--FELDER (4), BLOWERS (1). IP H R ER BB SO HR BOSTON HESKETH (L,2-1) 3 6 5 5 2 1 1 QUANTRILL 2 2-3 4 2 1 0 2 0 FOSSAS 1-3 0 0 0 0 0 0 GR HARRIS 1 0 0 0 1 2 0 K RYAN 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 SEATTLE BOSIO (W,1-1) 9 0 0 0 2 4 0 HESKETH PITCHED TO TWO BATTERS IN THE FOURTH SO--BOS: DAWSON, M VAUGHN, JOHN VALENTIN, COOPER. SEA: BUHNER 2, GRIFFEY JR, BLOWERS, BOONE. BB--BOS: RILES, QUINTANA. SEA: FELDER, BUHNER, T MARTINEZ. UMPIRES: HP--VOLTAGGIO. 1B--KAISER. 2B--JOHNSON. 3B--MCKEAN. T--2:12. A--13,604. ",9 "Re: Non-lethal alternatives to handguns? holland@CS.ColoState.EDU (douglas craig holland) writes: |> What about guns with non-lethal bullets, like rubber or plastic bullets. |> Would those work very well in stopping an attack? |> |> Doug Holland Any projectile traveling at or near typical bullet speeds is potentially lethal. Even blanks [which have no projectile] can cause death if the muzzle is in close proximity to the victim. I have heard of rubber or plastic bullets being used effectively during riot situations [where the intent is crowd control, rather than close range self defense]; i've also seen reports of deaths caused by them [the British in Northern Ireland]. Use of a firearm for self defense is appropriate and lawful only in the gravest of situations; at that point, i consider deadly [lethal] force to be a proper reaction [and so does the law]. Furthermore, use of less effective [but still potentially lethal] force has its own set of problems. It may well take more applications of the less effective force to stop the incident; this places all parties at some risk; the victim because the attack has not stopped, and the assailent since the aggregate damage done by the multiple applications may well be more deadly. -- Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com .. (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy (and last but not least a disclaimer) These opinions are mine.. ",16 "Re: Tracing license plates of BDI cagers? In article <1993Apr8.202746.12159@adobe.com>, cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) wrote: > > Good advice, of course. Thanks, Hesh. Time to go back for a Zen > refresher course. > > ""Imagine you are a lily, gently floating in a still, darkened pool."" And some BDC in a Volvo comes careening off the freeway and lands on top of you in said pool. You can't win. jim * Jim Franklin * jamesf@apple.com Jim Bob & Sons * * 1987 Cagiva Alazzurra 650 | .signature remodling * * 1969 Triumph 650 (slalom champ) | Low price$ Quality workman- * * DoD #469 KotP(un) | ship * Call today for free estimit ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qjbn0$na4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: ># You have only pushed back the undefined meaning. You must now define >#what ""objective values"" are. > >Really? You don't know what objective value is? If I offered the people >of the U.S., collectively, $1 for all of the land in America, would that >sound like a good deal? > >-- >Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' >odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon You entirely miss the point. Assuming that the collective population of the U.S. doesn't accept your offer; all that we can say, then, is that the majority of people in the U.S. share the common notion that $1 and all the land in America are not of equal value. This IN NO WAY makes for OBJECTIVE value--just a widely-held value system. ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((X))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) @@@ @@@ Death needs time @@@ ||| ||| for what it kills to grow in ||| ||| Paul C. Zimmerman ||| for Ah-Puc's sweet sake? ||| ||| pzimmerm@mail.sas.upenn.edu ||| You stupid, vulgar, greedy, ||| ||| ||| ugly, American deathsucker! ||| %%% %%% -William S. Burroughs %%% ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((X))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ",19 "Re: Netanyahu Should Be Stoned Anas Omran... @> But since all Jews that way, they find him a leader to follow! Anas, how much is Netanyahu paying you to write this? ",17 "(none) I AM Satan! ",15 "Re: A Book I found... graphics covlir@crockett1c.its.rpi.edu (Locks) writes: Hello, >I happened to spot an excellent book in a bookstore about 4 days ago, >though!!!!!! It is in C++ and assembly. It teaches you the assembly >as it goes along --so if you're like me and have no assembler experience, >don't worry. It has almost everything that I wanted to know and has >-----WORKING----- code. >--Rod Covlin-- I just bought a copy. I can't disagree that it is a very good book. But unfortunately I was looking for the same graphics feature described in this book but _NOT_ in 640x480x16 or 320x200x256 mode. It is easy to accomodate all the pixel ""descriptor"" (or color attributes) in those modes into A0000-AFFFFF, but not in 640x480x256(which is what I am interested in). I haven't finish the book but I affraid the author didn't talk much about this mode(or other SVGA modes). If anyone out there know any good book dealing with fast SVGA graphics manupulation(scrolling, repainting, all other good stuff..) please send me mail. Programming guide to SVGA card is also welcome. Thanks in advance. ************************************************************************ * Tiang T. Foo * * tiang@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu * ************************************************************************ -- ************************************************************************ * Tiang T. Foo * * tiang@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu * ************************************************************************ ",1 "Re: Blue LED's In article baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Baden de Bari) writes: > > So what's the story here... we're all stuck with the regular >green, red, and off yellow-orange LED's!? What gives!!?? > Anybody have a 'scoop' on FAIRLY LOW PRICED >BLUE< LED's??? > In order to emit blue light, a semiconductor must have a band gap energy within the region of 2.6 to 2.8 electron Volts. According to my physical electronics prof, you can't get an LED with that band gap. That's why you don't find blue LEDs or, for that matter, some other colour of LEDs. That is not to say that blue LEDs can't be found. I've seen 'blue' LEDs sold, but they were just your typical visible light LED in a blue plastic covering. They didn't emit very much light... Source: Solid State Electronic Devices (Ben G. Streetman, 3d ed., Prentice Hall) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""Right planet, wrong universe"" - Douglas Adams ""If we took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy"" - Mr. Whizzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",12 "Re: ""Cruel"" (was Re: >They spent quite a bit of time on the wording of the Constitution. They >>picked words whose meanings implied the intent. We have already looked >>in the dictionary to define the word. Isn't this sufficient? >We only need to ask the question: what did the founding fathers >consider cruel and unusual punishment? >Hanging? Hanging there slowing being strangled would be very >painful, both physically and psychologicall, I imagine. Well, most hangings are very quick and, I imagine, painless. >Firing squad ? [ note: not a clean way to die back in those >days ], etc. >All would be considered cruel under your definition. >All were allowed under the constitution by the founding fathers. And, hangings and firing squads are allowed today, too. And, if these things were not considered cruel, then surely a medical execution (painless) would not be, either. keith ",0 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card I don't remember the figures EXACTLY, but there were about 3500 deaths in Texas in 1991 that was caused by guns..... This is more than those beeing killed in car-ACCIDENTS! (Yes, there could be that low sentences or high poverty could influence the figures but they're still *pretty* high right??) I also believe Texas has some of the most liberal 'gun-laws' in USA...... *I* should not suffer because of others.... We all agree on this one, BUT we also live in a sociaty and therefor we'll have to give up *SOME* of our 'freedom' (Note the ''). Do you have an insurance?? Then you'll have to pay because of what others do... Do you buy anything?? YOU are paying for those who return goods, steal or even those who gets a bonus... Do you live with other people?? Then you 'can't' do ererything you'd want (burping/farting playing music LOUD) -What the hell is he trying to say ?? When you live in a society (USA are stilll counted as one...) you have to saccrifice. The question is HOW MUCH. One state (don't remember which, Texas??) tried to impose a rule that you could only buy ONE gun each MONTH. Think you all know what happened..... I respect the right to defend yourself, but that right should not inflict on other people. It seems like you all realize that you have a problem in America, the only problem is that you won't take the car away from the drunk driver, you hope to cure him first. Hope life comfirms to the standard of Winnie the Poh. This is not a .signature. It's merely a computergenerated text to waste bandwith and to bring down the evil Internet. Thomas Parsli thomasp@ifi.uio.no ",16 "Re: Honda Accord Brake Problem Joni Ciarletta writes > My Honda Accord just hit the magic 100,000 mile mark and now > all sorts of things are beginning to go bad. The latest problem > I am experiencing is with my brakes. They still stop the > car fine, but once I am stopped completely, my brake pedal > will sink another 2 or 3 inches all by itself. If feels really > strange, and I am worried my brakes will quit working one of > these days. > > I checked my brake fluid, and the reservoir was full, but the > fluid itself looked really dirty (like dirty oil). I called > my mechanic and he told me I need a new brake master cylinder, > which will cost me a whopping $250-300. You are not alone. My '79 Honda Accord with 110,000 miles on it started showing the same behavior. I replaced the brake master cylinder myself. It took about an hour and cost about $45. Sure beats paying $300 to have someone else do it! If I wanted to rebuild my own master cylinder instead of putting in a rebuilt one, it would have cost only $20 to $30 for the rebuild kit. The Honda brake master cylinder is easy to get to. Two bolts attach it to the engine compartment. Two brake lines enter the master cylinder. The tricky part was that the brake lines were stuck tight. My Craftsmen open end wrench rounded off the bolt heads! I had to use Vise Grips to loosen those suckers. Wow! Best invention since sliced bread. After that it was very easy. Bolt the new part in place, add new brake fluid, and bleed the brakes. This is quite easy even for a beginner. My local auto parts store had a repair manual for the Honda Accord; it had detailed diagrams of the master brake cylinder and a step-by-step procedure for replacing it. ",7 "Re: The doctrine of Original Sin In article , muddmj@wkuvx1.bitnet writes: > > Therefore, until someone is capable of comprehending > > God's laws they are not accountable for living them. > > They are in the book of life and are not removed until > > they can make a conscious decision to disobey God. > > > > A IDLER > > If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn't the Bible >> ever say so. It never comes right and says ""Only people that know > right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised."" > What Christ did say was : > > ""I solemly assure you, NO ONE can enter God's kingdom without > being born of water and Spirit ... Do not be surprised that I > tell you you must ALL be begotten from above."" > > Could this be because everyone is born with original sin? In some earlier discussions on this thread I may have given the impression that even though children didn't require baptism it wouldn't hurt if they were. To the contrary, when you baptize children before they are capable of comprehending it you deny them their opportunity to demonstrate their desire to serve God. Have any of you considered that children are not accountable for sin because they are not capable of repentance? Peter said to a group of ""men and brethren,"" ""Repent and be baptized every one of you"" (Acts 2:38). Notice that he specified that if they *repent* then they may be *baptized*. In following Peter's instructions people must first demonstrate repentance (a forsaking of their sins and a desire to obey God's commands) *before* they are eligible to be baptized. Since young children are not capable of repenting, they are not eligible for baptism. And since God is both just and merciful ""sin is not imputed when there is no law"" (Romans 5:13), young children are not accountable for what they can't comprehend. A IDLER ",15 "SALE- Furniture Keywords: All items were bought in August 1992. They are undamaged and like new. If you are interested in the following, please send e-mail to IO20648 on the main frame or car@gandalf. Queen size box spring and mattress $200 Queen size pine headboard $35 Sofa- slate blue-three pillows-6 foot seating area- $200 4 drawer chest- $20 3 drawer chest- $20 Small kitchen table and four chairs $70 Thanks CAR ",6 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes: >(mohamed.s.sadek) writes: >> >>I like what Mr. Joseph Biden had to say yesterday 5/11/93 in the senate. >> >>Condemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans >>and calling that ""moral rape"". >> >>He went on to say that the reason for that is ""out right religious BIGOTRY"" > >Actually, this strife in Yugoslavia goes back a long way. Bosinan Muslims, >in collaboration with the Nazis, did to Serbians after the first world >war what Serbs are doing to Muslims now. This is not a fresh case of >ethnic cleansing but just another chapter in the continuing saga >of intense mutual hatred, destruction,... Not taking sides in this >perpetual war does not amount to religious bigotry. It could just >be helplessness with regards to bringing peace to a region that does >not even know the meaning of the word. > >Satya Prabhakar >-- Muslims helping the Nazis??? Where on earth do you come up with such accuusation?? Do you have proofs?? If not, you should publically apologize for such a statement. Last time I heard, the nazis prided themselves in needing no body to carry their politics and ideologies. And if your statment were true, don't you think Israel would of used it to point to what a Muslim neighbor (PALESTINE) could do to them if they allowed it to be? The jewish lobby and power is very strong, and if what you said is true, we would of heard it from them before you could come up with it. And you dare say that you are taking no sides!! Mohammed ",17 "Re: Countersteering, to know or not to know - what is the question? lotto@husc4.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto) writes: >There has been a running thread on the need to understand >countersteering. I have seen a lot of opinion, but not much of it has >any basis in fact or study. The bottom line is: >The understanding and ability to swerve was essentially absent among >the accident-involved riders in the Hurt study. >The ""average rider"" does not identify that countersteering alone >provides the primary input to effect motorcycle lean by themselves, >even after many years of practice. I would agree entirely with these three paragraphs. But did the Hurt study make any distinction between an *ability* to swerve and a *failure* to swerve? In most of the accidents and near accidents that I've seen, riders will almost always stand on the brakes as hard as they dare, simply because the instinct to brake in the face of danger is so strong that it over-rides everything else. Hard braking and swerving tend to be mutually exclusive manouvres - did Hurt draw any conclusions on which one is generally preferable? ",8 "Re: Atheists and Hell >> [ To summarize: >> While questioning the sagacity of someone who said they would >> ""rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in Heaven >> knowing even one man would spend his ""eternal life"" being >> scorched for his wrongdoings..."" I described how horrible hell >> is and compared the above statement with Jesus' >> suffering on the cross in order to prevent people going to hell.] which Kenneth Engel challenges: > Did this happen to Jesus? I don't think so, not from what I heard. > He lived ONE DAY of suffering and died. If the wages of sin is > the above paragraph, then JESUS DIDN'T PAY FOR OUR SINS, DID HE? I will wimp out and admit that I never liked the metaphor of Jesus ""paying"" for our sins in the sense that many Christians accept as literal. The point is that God understands the suffering we go through, not just intellectually like when we watch the Somalians on TV, but _really_ understands, He can ""feel"" our pain. This fact is manifested by Jesus' life. We can argue that someone in history might have suffered more than Jesus, we can think of more horrible torture than crucifixion, we can think of cases of betrayal and fruitless effort leading to worse despair, but the main point is that Jesus is in the trenches with us, He is in everyone, whatever I do to the least of humanity I do to Him, and whatever I do for the least of humanity I do for Him. Now, to reconcile this with the existence of hell is beyond my capabilities, but that wasn't my goal. > I'd be surprised to see the moderator let this one through, Thankfully our moderator is surprising. > but I seriously want a reasonable explanation for this. As I re-read this I must admit that this is more of a description of my faith than an explanation, but perhaps that's all I can do, hopefully that's all I have to do. Chris Mussack ",15 "Re: **Sorry folks** (read this) In article <1993Apr22.014646.28445@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> andersom@spot.Colorado.EDU (Marc Anderson) writes: >I just found out from my source that this article was a joke. Heh heh.. >It seemed pretty damn convincing to me from the start -- I just didn't >notice the smiley at the end of the article, and there were a few other >hints which I should of caught. People took this article seriously? I mean, I know it's the Net and all, but the prankster didn't even have Clinton's sound-bites right. -- Rita Rouvalis rita@village.com ",11 "Re: Food For Thought On Tyre There has been a lot of discussion about Tyre. In sum, Ezekiel prophesied that the place would be mashed and never rebuilt; as there are a lot of people living there, it would appear that Ezekiel was not literally correct. This doesn't bother me at all, because I understand the language Ezekiel used differently than do so-called Biblical literalists. For example, it sometimes happens that someone says ""My grandson is the cutest baby!"" and then turns around and sees the granddaughter and says ""Oh! Isn't she the cutest thing!?"" This person is not literally claiming to have lined up all the babies in the world according to cuteness and discovered his own grandchildren tied for first. Rather, he is trying to express his emotions using words that are very object-oriented. Because this example is one that is common to many people, nobody misunderstands the intent of the statements; the Bible, however, is often at the mercy of people who assume that everything within must be exactly literally true. For those people, the existence of Tyre is a problem; for me, it is not. Turning to the latest person trying to defend Ezekiel, we read this from John E King: > The prophesy clearly implies that people would still be living in the > area[.] No, it implies nothing of the kind. If you had nothing but the prophecy from Ezekiel, and you were told you interpret it literally, you would never say ""Oh, he means that there will be houses and businesses and plants and stuff like that."" You would read ""I will make you a bare rock"" and ""You will never be rebuilt"", and you'd conclude that Tyre would be a bare rock. The only way to get from `fishing nets' to `houses and buildings and a medium-large population' is if you KNOW that all that latter stuff is there. In other words, your answer means that Ezekiel misled everybody who read the prophecy at the time it was written. There is no way that, given a literal reading, they could read this passage and conclude ""medium-size city"". You seem to feel that ""Never be rebuilt"" means ""be rebuilt"" -- maybe so, but it is hardly a `clear implication'. Mr King also writes: > So far I've seen stated figurers ranging from 15,000 to 22,000. > Let's assume the latter one is correct. By modern standards > we are talking about a one-horse town. Well, no. That's only a bit less than the population of Annapolis, where I'm from. You know, the Naval Acadamy, the state capital, George Washington resigned his commission in the statehouse? Annapolis may not be New York, but it's at least a two-horse town. But supposing 22,000 people is a ""small town"" -- it's still 22,000 people MORE than Ezekiel predicted. And you've said nothing about the other problem. In chapter 26, Ezekiel predicts that Nebuchadnezzar will will destroy Tyre and loot all their valuables. However, Nebuchadnezzar did NOT destroy Tyre, and in chapter 29 Ezekiel even quotes God as saying ""he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre."" Let's ignore Alexander for a moment, and just pay attention to chapter 26. Ezekiel says N. would destroy Tyre, and N. did NOT destroy Tyre. Ezekiel says that N. would plunder their valuables, but N. did NOT plunder their valuables. Regardless of what you think about Tyre _now_, the fact is that N. died before the place was destroyed. Ezekiel said N. was going to do it, and N. did not. * This post is, of course, pointless. Inerrantists have an amazing ability to rewrite the Bible as needed to fit whatever they want it to say. For example, I expect Mr King to respond to the comments about Ezekiel 26 by pulling some ""clear implications"" out of hat. When Ezekiel said that N. would ""demolish your towers"", that clearly implied that the walls would still be standing so people would know where the towers used to be. And when Ezekiel said that N. would ""demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea"", that clearly implied that N. would never set foot on the island. And when Ezekiel wrote that N. would ""build a ramp up to your walls"", that clearly implies that N. would spend 13 years stomping around on the mainland and never get close to the walls. See? A few ""clear implications"" that are totally contrary to the text, and you can reconcile anything you want. Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu ""[Do] You know why I'm the enabler? Because you demand it!"" -- Cliff Claven ",19 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is >>#> >>#> In article <1qk1pp$6hj@kyle.eitech.com> ekr@kyle.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: >>#So what? The value I assign the results is as real *to me* as they can get. >>#I'm just not limited to how things are valuable to me. Aside from our own >>#desires for its results, science has no value. Nevertheless, it still >>#accurately describes how the universe works, humans or no humans. >> It accurately described what we can _say_ about how the universe works. -- jim halat halat@bear.com bear-stearns --whatever doesn't kill you will only serve to annoy you-- nyc i speak only for myself ",0 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article sundaram@egr.msu.edu wrote: > jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes: > > [much BS deleted for brevity] > > >Again, my point was that not all microsofties are here to ""sell"" > >readers on our products (which would conflict with the ""no-ads"" > >philosophy of usenet). Nor do we necessarily have access to info > >that others have. > > It certainly smacks of that! Remember the ""POLL"" that you quoted saying that > you had seen a 95% of users being satisfied with DOS 6.0? Care to recall how > unbiased the sample set was? That post sure looked like FUD....and coming > from a microsoftie .... well, it sure seemed like something was not on level. It came from a reseller survey. > Advocacy is GOOD - but spreading FUD to advocate your favorite OS is very > unethical - especially when you have a vested interest in the success of that > OS. I don't recall any FUD here. Maybe an example? > >I also get tired of people assuming that microsofties are, like, > >members of the BORG. > > That is because their actions seem to invite this opinion - never seen more > defensive people in my life. Moreover, many of their posts seem to encourage > this too, IMHO. For the most part, this newsgroup is ""attack"" oriented. Microsoft has been attacked on anything ranging from the quality of our products, the intelligence of our people, the integrity of our business, etc. ANYONE would get defensive when being baselessly attacked. We are human beings as well. You should expect a response when a claim that an employee might feel is unwarranted is leveled. > Seriously speaking, it is a shame that MS techie employees get the heat for > MS's actions - most of which are perpetrated by the Management and marketing. > I am sure that they ARE very talented etc ... I have not doubts about their > abilities, just about the ethics of their marketing practices. > > Divya > -- > Divya > > ""Live long, and then DIE a slow and horrible death ...."" > - What Confucius wanted to say .... ",2 "Teflon Development. hausner@qucis.queensu.ca (Alejo Hausner) Pontificated: > >Sorry to split hairs, but I just read in ""The making of the atomic >bomb""(*) that teflon was developed during world war 2. A sealant was >needed for the tubing in which uranium hexafluoride passed as it was >gradually enriched by difussion. UF6 is very corrosive, and some very >inert yet flexible material was needed for the seals. > To split a split hair, I believe that teflon (-CF4- monomer) was ""discovered"" by accident when someone I don't remember found what he thought was a liquid (or gas?) had turned to a solid... It just happend to fit the bill for the above use... I'm crossposting to sci.materials so perhaps someone in the know might elaborate... /~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\ | ""I know you believe you understand what it is that you | | think I said. But I am not sure that you realize that | | what I said is not what I meant."" | ",14 "Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!! In article <1qk6v3INNrm6@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu () writes: > >Gordon Banks: > >>a lot to keep from going back to morbid obesity. I think all >>of us cycle. One's success depends on how large the fluctuations >>in the cycle are. Some people can cycle only 5 pounds. Unfortunately, >>I'm not one of them. >> >> >This certainly describes my situation perfectly. For me there is >a constant dynamic between my tendency to eat, which appears to >be totally limitless, and the purely conscious desire to not >put on too much weight. When I get too fat, I just diet/exercise >more (with varying degrees of success) to take off the >extra weight. Usually I cycle within a 15 lb range, but >smaller and larger cycles occur as well. I'm always afraid >that this method will stop working someday, but usually >I seem to be able to hold the weight gain in check. >This is one reason I have a hard time accepting the notion >of some metabolic derangement associated with cycle dieting >(that results in long-term weight gain). I have been cycle- >dieting for at least 20 years without seeing such a change. As mentioned in Adiposity 101, only some experience weight rebound. The fact that you don't doesn't prove it doesn't happen to others. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ Omen Technology Inc ""The High Reliability Software"" 17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD Portland OR 97231 503-621-3406 ",13 "Re: Radar detector DETECTORS? In article <1993Apr14.181738.18472@bmers95.bnr.ca> alee@bmerh794.bnr.ca (Louis Leclerc) writes: > > In article <34263@oasys.dt.navy.mil> you write: > >VA, CT, Wash DC and I think BC Canada where I've heard they actually > >use Radar detector detectors. > > Nope, not in British Columbia. Detectors are legal here in BC, I've even > got one. > > In Alberta and Ontario they're illegal, and detection devices are sometimes > used. I've heard the police in Ontario prefer a much more direct method of > detection. Just trigger the radar gun, watch for people slamming on the > brakes, and search the car. > > > David Lee > leex@sfu.ca > Detectors are legal in Alberta, the old law was overturned a long time ago. -- Stan Burton (DND/CRAD/DRES/DTD/MSS/AGCG) sburton@dres.dnd.ca (403) 544-4737 DRE Suffield, Box 4000, Medicine Hat, AB, Canada, T1A 8K6 ",12 "WANTED: DRAM Controller for use with MC68HC16 For an upcoming project I want to use 4 Megs of DRAM configured as two 2 Meg banks of 16 bit data. I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a DRAM controller which will handle refreshing the data. It's ok if the controller doesn't handle bank switching - that part is easy. The only controllers I know of are the ones out of the National Semiconductor DRAM Management Handbook (1988 edition) eg. DP8429. I would like to know if another manufacturer produces one which may be easier to implement in my circuit. BTW, if anyone is wanting to hook up DRAM to a microcontroller, Dallas Semiconductor makes a neat chip: the DS1262 Serial DRAM Nonvolatizer Chip. It uses the SPI (I2C) bus and refreshes/controls up to 16Mx1 of DRAM memory. It can use an external battery to refresh the DRAM when the power is off. Price is $11.75 from Dallas (quan 1). I wish I could use this chip but its maximum SPI clock rate is 1 MHz (too slow for me...). Thanks in advance, Wayne Schellekens -- Wayne Schellekens, VE4WTS Internet: schellew@wu2.wl.aecl.ca AECL Research AX.25: VE4WTS@VE4KV.#WPG.MB.CAN Whiteshell Laboratories Twisted pair: (204)753-2311 x2317 ",12 "Re: Lexus and Infiniti kchong@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Keith Chong) writes: >In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes: >>First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division >>is ""Infiniti"" not ""Infinity."" I would also like to clear up the question >>of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a >>person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models >>had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each >>manufacturer used V8 engines. >> >>Lexus: >> LS400- V8 >> GS300- V6 >> ES300- V6 >> SC400- V8 >> SC300- V6 >The GS300 and SC300 have an inline 6. >> >>Infiniti: >> Q45- V8 >> J30- V6 >> G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here) >Inline 4 is correct. >> >>I hope this helps. >> >>-BSB >Keith this is off the subject but, Don't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in liters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter ""Sport Coupe"".. and Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). issa ",7 "Lotus 1-2-3 ver 3.4 forsale ********************* NEW PRICE *********** I have an extra copy of Lotus 1-2-3 ver 3.4 for DOS. this package was originally $600. I'd like to get $75 for it. please reply by e-mail to jth@bach.udel.edu Thanks, Jay ",6 "Re: Krillean Photography In article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes: > Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods > resident in the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by > them, perhaps. In article <1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org> gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik) writes: > No flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms > Kirilian photography registers the electromagnetical fields around > objects, in simple, it takes pictures of your aura. Greg, no flame intended, but you have no discernible sense of humor. What Bill wrote was intended to be funny. It's called a ""joke"", Greg. Look into it. Besides, Kirilian photography is actually photography of my friend's two-year-old son Kiril. Perhaps you meant ""Kirlian""? -- Mark Meyer | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com | Texas Instruments, Inc., Plano TX +--------------------+ Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI. ""You have triggered primary defense mechanism."" ""Blast!"" ""Affirmative."" ",13 "Re: How many homosexuals are there? In article kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes: >Perhaps 1%, but most likely not more than 2%. A new study >(discrediting Kinsey) says so. >-- Yes, I saw today in 6 o'clock news on KCBS here in San Francisco this statistic quoted. 2.2% men had sex with another man. 1.3% cinsider themself homosexual. I understand of course that because this statistic goes against common believe and not PC-correct it must be complete BS. Thx vlad -- Vladimir Kuznetsov (408)252-5455 Natural Intelligence Consulting vlad@netcom.COM 73437,3344@compuserve.com vkuznetsov@mci.com ",18 "JPEG image compression: Frequently Asked Questions Archive-name: jpeg-faq Last-modified: 16 May 1993 This FAQ article discusses JPEG image compression. Suggestions for additions and clarifications are welcome. New since version of 2 May 1993: * Added info on ImageViewer for NeXT. This article includes the following sections: [1] What is JPEG? [2] Why use JPEG? [3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF? [4] How well does JPEG compress images? [5] What are good ""quality"" settings for JPEG? [6] Where can I get JPEG software? [6A] ""canned"" software, viewers, etc. [6B] source code [7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization? [8] How does JPEG work? [9] What about lossless JPEG? [10] Why all the argument about file formats? [11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it? [12] What about arithmetic coding? [13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression? [14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG? Sections 1-6 are basic info that every JPEG user needs to know; sections 7-14 are advanced info for the curious. This article is posted every 2 weeks. You can always find the latest version in the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu (18.70.0.226). By FTP, fetch /pub/usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq; or if you don't have FTP, send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with body ""send usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq"". Many other FAQ articles are also stored in this archive. For more instructions on use of the archive, send e-mail to the same address with the words ""help"" and ""index"" (no quotes) on separate lines. If you don't get a reply, the server may be misreading your return address; add a line such as ""path myname@mysite"" to specify your correct e-mail address to reply to. ---------- [1] What is JPEG? JPEG (pronounced ""jay-peg"") is a standardized image compression mechanism. JPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, the original name of the committee that wrote the standard. JPEG is designed for compressing either full-color or gray-scale digital images of ""natural"", real-world scenes. It does not work so well on non-realistic images, such as cartoons or line drawings. JPEG does not handle black-and-white (1-bit-per-pixel) images, nor does it handle motion picture compression. Standards for compressing those types of images are being worked on by other committees, named JBIG and MPEG respectively. JPEG is ""lossy"", meaning that the image you get out of decompression isn't quite identical to what you originally put in. The algorithm achieves much of its compression by exploiting known limitations of the human eye, notably the fact that small color details aren't perceived as well as small details of light-and-dark. Thus, JPEG is intended for compressing images that will be looked at by humans. If you plan to machine-analyze your images, the small errors introduced by JPEG may be a problem for you, even if they are invisible to the eye. A useful property of JPEG is that the degree of lossiness can be varied by adjusting compression parameters. This means that the image maker can trade off file size against output image quality. You can make *extremely* small files if you don't mind poor quality; this is useful for indexing image archives, making thumbnail views or icons, etc. etc. Conversely, if you aren't happy with the output quality at the default compression setting, you can jack up the quality until you are satisfied, and accept lesser compression. [2] Why use JPEG? There are two good reasons: to make your image files smaller, and to store 24-bit-per-pixel color data instead of 8-bit-per-pixel data. Making image files smaller is a big win for transmitting files across networks and for archiving libraries of images. Being able to compress a 2 Mbyte full-color file down to 100 Kbytes or so makes a big difference in disk space and transmission time! (If you are comparing GIF and JPEG, the size ratio is more like four to one. More details below.) If your viewing software doesn't support JPEG directly, you'll have to convert JPEG to some other format for viewing or manipulating images. Even with a JPEG-capable viewer, it takes longer to decode and view a JPEG image than to view an image of a simpler format (GIF, for instance). Thus, using JPEG is essentially a time/space tradeoff: you give up some time in order to store or transmit an image more cheaply. It's worth noting that when network or phone transmission is involved, the time savings from transferring a shorter file can be much greater than the extra time to decompress the file. I'll let you do the arithmetic yourself. The other reason why JPEG will gradually replace GIF as a standard Usenet posting format is that JPEG can store full color information: 24 bits/pixel (16 million colors) instead of 8 or less (256 or fewer colors). If you have only 8-bit display hardware then this may not seem like much of an advantage to you. Within a couple of years, though, 8-bit GIF will look as obsolete as black-and-white MacPaint format does today. Furthermore, for reasons detailed in section 7, JPEG is far more useful than GIF for exchanging images among people with widely varying color display hardware. Hence JPEG is considerably more appropriate than GIF for use as a Usenet posting standard. [3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF? JPEG is *not* going to displace GIF entirely; for some types of images, GIF is superior in image quality, file size, or both. One of the first things to learn about JPEG is which kinds of images to apply it to. As a rule of thumb, JPEG is superior to GIF for storing full-color or gray-scale images of ""realistic"" scenes; that means scanned photographs and similar material. JPEG is superior even if you don't have 24-bit display hardware, and it is a LOT superior if you do. (See section 7 for details.) GIF does significantly better on images with only a few distinct colors, such as cartoons and line drawings. In particular, large areas of pixels that are all *exactly* the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed by GIF. JPEG can't squeeze these files as much as GIF does without introducing visible defects. This sort of image is best kept in GIF form. (In particular, single-color borders are quite cheap in GIF files, but they should be avoided in JPEG files.) JPEG also has a hard time with very sharp edges: a row of pure-black pixels adjacent to a row of pure-white pixels, for example. Sharp edges tend to come out blurred unless you use a very high quality setting. Again, this sort of thing is not found in scanned photographs, but it shows up fairly often in GIF files: borders, overlaid text, etc. The blurriness is particularly objectionable with text that's only a few pixels high. If you have a GIF with a lot of small-size overlaid text, don't JPEG it. Computer-drawn images (ray-traced scenes, for instance) usually fall between scanned images and cartoons in terms of complexity. The more complex and subtly rendered the image, the more likely that JPEG will do well on it. The same goes for semi-realistic artwork (fantasy drawings and such). Plain black-and-white (two level) images should never be converted to JPEG. You need at least about 16 gray levels before JPEG is useful for gray-scale images. It should also be noted that GIF is lossless for gray-scale images of up to 256 levels, while JPEG is not. If you have an existing library of GIF images, you may wonder whether you should convert them to JPEG. You will lose a little image quality if you do. (Section 7, which argues that JPEG image quality is superior to GIF, only applies if both formats start from a full-color original. If you start from a GIF, you've already irretrievably lost a great deal of information; JPEG can only make things worse.) However, the disk space savings may justify converting anyway. This is a decision you'll have to make for yourself. If you do convert a GIF library to JPEG, see section 14 for hints. Be prepared to leave some images in GIF format, since some GIFs will not convert well. [4] How well does JPEG compress images? Pretty darn well. Here are some sample file sizes for an image I have handy, a 727x525 full-color image of a ship in a harbor. The first three files are for comparison purposes; the rest were created with the free JPEG software described in section 6B. File Size in bytes Comments ship.ppm 1145040 Original file in PPM format (no compression; 24 bits or 3 bytes per pixel, plus a few bytes overhead) ship.ppm.Z 963829 PPM file passed through Unix compress compress doesn't accomplish a lot, you'll note. Other text-oriented compressors give similar results. ship.gif 240438 Converted to GIF with ppmquant -fs 256 | ppmtogif Most of the savings is the result of losing color info: GIF saves 8 bits/pixel, not 24. (See sec. 7.) ship.jpg95 155622 cjpeg -Q 95 (highest useful quality setting) This is indistinguishable from the 24-bit original, at least to my nonprofessional eyeballs. ship.jpg75 58009 cjpeg -Q 75 (default setting) You have to look mighty darn close to distinguish this from the original, even with both on-screen at once. ship.jpg50 38406 cjpeg -Q 50 This has slight defects; if you know what to look for, you could tell it's been JPEGed without seeing the original. Still as good image quality as many recent postings in Usenet pictures groups. ship.jpg25 25192 cjpeg -Q 25 JPEG's characteristic ""blockiness"" becomes apparent at this setting (djpeg -blocksmooth helps some). Still, I've seen plenty of Usenet postings that were of poorer image quality than this. ship.jpg5o 6587 cjpeg -Q 5 -optimize (-optimize cuts table overhead) Blocky, but perfectly satisfactory for preview or indexing purposes. Note that this file is TINY: the compression ratio from the original is 173:1 ! In this case JPEG can make a file that's a factor of four or five smaller than a GIF of comparable quality (the -Q 75 file is every bit as good as the GIF, better if you have a full-color display). This seems to be a typical ratio for real-world scenes. [5] What are good ""quality"" settings for JPEG? Most JPEG compressors let you pick a file size vs. image quality tradeoff by selecting a quality setting. There seems to be widespread confusion about the meaning of these settings. ""Quality 95"" does NOT mean ""keep 95% of the information"", as some have claimed. The quality scale is purely arbitrary; it's not a percentage of anything. The name of the game in using JPEG is to pick the lowest quality setting (smallest file size) that decompresses into an image indistinguishable from the original. This setting will vary from one image to another and from one observer to another, but here are some rules of thumb. The default quality setting (-Q 75) is very often the best choice. This setting is about the lowest you can go without expecting to see defects in a typical image. Try -Q 75 first; if you see defects, then go up. Except for experimental purposes, never go above -Q 95; saying -Q 100 will produce a file two or three times as large as -Q 95, but of hardly any better quality. If the image was less than perfect quality to begin with, you might be able to go down to -Q 50 without objectionable degradation. On the other hand, you might need to go to a HIGHER quality setting to avoid further degradation. The second case seems to apply much of the time when converting GIFs to JPEG. The default -Q 75 is about right for compressing 24-bit images, but -Q 85 to 95 is usually better for converting GIFs (see section 14 for more info). If you want a very small file (say for preview or indexing purposes) and are prepared to tolerate large defects, a -Q setting in the range of 5 to 10 is about right. -Q 2 or so may be amusing as ""op art"". (Note: the quality settings discussed in this article apply to the free JPEG software described in section 6B, and to many programs based on it. Other JPEG implementations, such as Image Alchemy, may use a completely different quality scale. Some programs don't even provide a numeric scale, just ""high""/""medium""/""low""-style choices.) [6] Where can I get JPEG software? Most of the programs described in this section are available by FTP. If you don't know how to use FTP, see the FAQ article ""How to find sources"". (If you don't have direct access to FTP, read about ftpmail servers in the same article.) That article appears regularly in news.answers, or you can get it by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with ""send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources"" in the body. The ""Anonymous FTP List FAQ"" may also be helpful --- it's usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in the news.answers archive. NOTE: this list changes constantly. If you have a copy more than a couple months old, get the latest JPEG FAQ from the news.answers archive. [6A] If you are looking for ""canned"" software, viewers, etc: The first part of this list is system-specific programs that only run on one kind of system. If you don't see what you want for your machine, check out the portable JPEG software described at the end of the list. Note that this list concentrates on free and shareware programs that you can obtain over Internet; but some commercial programs are listed too. X Windows: XV (shareware, $25) is an excellent viewer for JPEG, GIF, and many other image formats. It can also do format conversion and some simple image manipulations. It's available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12), file contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z. Version 3.00 is a major upgrade with support for 24-bit displays and many other improvements; however, it is brand new and still has some bugs lurking. If you prefer not to be on the bleeding edge, stick with version 2.21, also available from export. Note that version 2.21 is not a good choice if you have a 24-bit display (you'll get only 8-bit color), nor for converting 24-bit images to JPEG. But 2.21 works fine for converting GIF and other 8-bit images to JPEG. CAUTION: there is a glitch in version 2.21: be sure to check the ""save at normal size"" checkbox when saving a JPEG file, or the file will be blurry. Another good choice for X Windows is John Cristy's free ImageMagick package, also available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z. This package handles many image processing and conversion tasks. The ImageMagick viewer handles 24-bit displays correctly; for colormapped displays, it does better (though slower) color quantization than XV or the basic free JPEG software. Both of the above are large, complex packages. If you just want a simple image viewer, try xloadimage or xli. xloadimage supports JPEG in its latest release, 3.03. xloadimage is free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xloadimage-3.03.tar.Z. xli is a variant version of xloadimage, said by its fans to be somewhat faster and more robust than the original. (The current xli is indeed faster and more robust than the current xloadimage, at least with respect to JPEG files, because it has the IJG v4 decoder while xloadimage 3.03 is using a hacked-over v1. The next xloadimage release will fix this.) xli is also free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xli.1.14.tar.Z. Both programs are said to do the right thing with 24-bit displays. MS-DOS: This covers plain DOS; for Windows or OS/2 programs, see the next headings. One good choice is Eric Praetzel's free DVPEG, which views JPEG and GIF files. The current version, 2.5, is available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca (129.97.50.50), file pub/jpeg/viewers/dvpeg25.zip. This is a good basic viewer that works on either 286 or 386/486 machines. The user interface is not flashy, but it's functional. Another freeware JPEG/GIF/TGA viewer is Mohammad Rezaei's Hiview. The current version, 1.2, is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/hv12.zip. Hiview requires a 386 or better CPU and a VCPI-compatible memory manager (QEMM386 and 386MAX work; Windows and OS/2 do not). Hiview is currently the fastest viewer for images that are no bigger than your screen. For larger images, it scales the image down to fit on the screen (rather than using panning/scrolling as most viewers do). You may or may not prefer this approach, but there's no denying that it slows down loading of large images considerably. Note: installation is a bit tricky; read the directions carefully! A shareware alternative is ColorView for DOS ($30). This is easier to install than either of the two freeware alternatives. Its user interface is also much spiffier-looking, although personally I find it harder to use --- more keystrokes, inconsistent behavior. It is faster than DVPEG but a little slower than Hiview, at least on my hardware. (For images larger than screen size, DVPEG and ColorView seem to be about the same speed, and both are faster than Hiview.) The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/dcview21.zip. Requires a VESA graphics driver; if you don't have one, look in vesadrv2.zip or vesa-tsr.zip from the same directory. (Many recent PCs have a built-in VESA driver, so don't try to load a VESA driver unless ColorView complains that the driver is missing.) A second shareware alternative is Fullview, which has been kicking around the net for a while, but I don't know any stable archive location for it. The current (rather old) version is inferior to the above viewers anyway. The author tells me that a new version of Fullview will be out shortly and it will be submitted to the Simtel20 archives at that time. The well-known GIF viewer CompuShow (CSHOW) supports JPEG in its latest revision, 8.60a. However, CSHOW's JPEG implementation isn't very good: it's slow (about half the speed of the above viewers) and image quality is poor except on hi-color displays. Too bad ... it'd have been nice to see a good JPEG capability in CSHOW. Shareware, $25. Available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/gif/cshw860a.zip. Due to the remarkable variety of PC graphics hardware, any one of these viewers might not work on your particular machine. If you can't get *any* of them to work, you'll need to use one of the following conversion programs to convert JPEG to GIF, then view with your favorite GIF viewer. (If you have hi-color hardware, don't use GIF as the intermediate format; try to find a TARGA-capable viewer instead. VPIC5.0 is reputed to do the right thing with hi-color displays.) The Independent JPEG Group's free JPEG converters are FTPable from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/jpeg4.zip (or jpeg4386.zip if you have a 386 and extended memory). These files are DOS compilations of the free source code described in section 6B; they will convert JPEG to and from GIF, Targa, and PPM formats. Handmade Software offers free JPEG<=>GIF conversion tools, GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF. These are slow and are limited to conversion to and from GIF format; in particular, you can't get 24-bit color output from a JPEG. The major advantage of these tools is that they will read and write HSI's proprietary JPEG format as well as the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Since HSI-format files are rather widespread on BBSes, this is a useful capability. Version 2.0 of these tools is free (prior versions were shareware). Get it from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/gif2jpg2.zip. NOTE: do not use HSI format for files to be posted on Internet, since it is not readable on non-PC platforms. Handmade Software also has a shareware image conversion and manipulation package, Image Alchemy. This will translate JPEG files (both JFIF and HSI formats) to and from many other image formats. It can also display images. A demo version of Image Alchemy version 1.6.2 is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/alch162.zip. NOTE ABOUT SIMTEL20: The Internet's key archive site for PC-related programs is Simtel20, full name wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (192.88.110.20). Simtel20 runs a non-Unix system with weird directory names; where this document refers to directory (eg) ""msdos/graphics"" at Simtel20, that really means ""pd1:"". If you are not physically on MILnet, you should expect rather slow FTP transfer rates from Simtel20. There are several Internet sites that maintain copies (mirrors) of the Simtel20 archives; most FTP users should go to one of the mirror sites instead. A popular USA mirror site is oak.oakland.edu (141.210.10.117), which keeps Simtel20 files in (eg) ""/pub/msdos/graphics"". If you have no FTP capability, you can retrieve files from Simtel20 by e-mail; see informational postings in comp.archives.msdos.announce to find out how. If you are outside the USA, consult the same newsgroup to learn where your nearest Simtel20 mirror is. Microsoft Windows: There are several Windows programs capable of displaying JPEG images. (Windows viewers are generally slower than DOS viewers on the same hardware, due to Windows' system overhead. Note that you can run the DOS conversion programs described above inside a Windows DOS window.) The newest entry is WinECJ, which is free and EXTREMELY fast. Version 1.0 is available from ftp.rahul.net, file /pub/bryanw/pc/jpeg/wecj.zip. Requires Windows 3.1 and 256-or-more-colors mode. This is a no-frills viewer with the bad habit of hogging the machine completely while it decodes; and the image quality is noticeably worse than other viewers. But it's so fast you'll use it anyway, at least for previewing... JView is freeware, fairly fast, has good on-line help, and can write out the decompressed image in Windows BMP format; but it can't create new JPEG files, and it doesn't view GIFs. JView also lacks some other useful features of the shareware viewers (such as brightness adjustment), but it's an excellent basic viewer. The current version, 0.9, is available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.84), file pub/pc/win3/desktop/jview090.zip. (Mirrors of this archive can be found at some other Internet sites, including wuarchive.wustl.edu.) WinJPEG (shareware, $20) displays JPEG,GIF,Targa,TIFF, and BMP image files; it can write all of these formats too, so it can be used as a converter. It has some other nifty features including color-balance adjustment and slideshow. The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE above), file msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip. (This is a slow 286-compatible version; if you register, you'll get the 386-only version, which is roughly 25% faster.) ColorView is another shareware entry ($30). This was an early and promising contender, but it has not been updated in some time, and at this point it has no real advantages over WinJPEG. If you want to try it anyway, the current version is 0.97, available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, file pub/pc/win3/desktop/cview097.zip. (I understand that a new version will be appearing once the authors are finished with ColorView for DOS.) DVPEG (see DOS heading) also works under Windows, but only in full-screen mode, not in a window. OS/2: The following files are available from hobbes.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151). Note: check /pub/uploads for more recent versions --- the hobbes moderator is not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories. /pub/os2/2.x/graphics/jpegv4.zip 32-bit version of free IJG conversion programs, version 4. /pub/os2/all/graphics/jpeg4-16.zip 16-bit version of same, for OS/2 1.x. /pub/os2/2.x/graphics/imgarc12.zip Image Archiver 1.02: image conversion/viewing with PM graphical interface. Strong on conversion functions, viewing is a bit weaker. Shareware, $15. /pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmjpeg11.zip PMJPEG 1.1: OS/2 2.x port of WinJPEG, a popular viewer for Windows (see description in Windows section). Shareware, $20. /pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmview85.zip PMView 0.85: JPEG/GIF/BMP/Targa/PCX viewer. GIF viewing very fast, JPEG viewing roughly the same speed as the above two programs. Has image manipulation & slideshow functions. Shareware, $20. Macintosh: Most Mac JPEG programs rely on Apple's JPEG implementation, which is part of the QuickTime system extension; so you need to have QuickTime installed. To use QuickTime, you need a 68020 or better CPU and you need to be running System 6.0.7 or later. (If you're running System 6, you must also install the 32-bit QuickDraw extension; this is built-in on System 7.) You can get QuickTime by FTP from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/quicktime.hqx. (As of 11/92, this file contains QuickTime 1.5, which is better than QT 1.0 in several ways. With respect to JPEG, it is marginally faster and considerably less prone to crash when fed a corrupt JPEG file. However, some applications seem to have compatibility problems with QT 1.5.) Mac users should keep in mind that QuickTime's JPEG format, PICT/JPEG, is not the same as the Usenet-standard JFIF JPEG format. (See section 10 for details.) If you post images on Usenet, make sure they are in JFIF format. Most of the programs mentioned below can generate either format. The first choice is probably JPEGView, a free program for viewing images that are in JFIF format, PICT/JPEG format, or GIF format. It also can convert between the two JPEG formats. The current version, 2.0, is a big improvement over prior versions. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu (36.44.0.6), file /info-mac/app/jpeg-view-20.hqx. Requires System 7 and QuickTime. On 8-bit displays, JPEGView usually produces the best color image quality of all the currently available Mac JPEG viewers. JPEGView can view large images in much less memory than other Mac viewers; in fact, it's the only one that can deal with JPEG images much over 640x480 pixels on a typical 4MB Mac. Given a large image, JPEGView automatically scales it down to fit on the screen, rather than presenting scroll bars like most other viewers. (You can zoom in on any desired portion, though.) Some people like this behavior, some don't. Overall, JPEGView's user interface is very well thought out. GIFConverter, a shareware ($40) image viewer/converter, supports JFIF and PICT/JPEG, as well as GIF and several other image formats. The latest version is 2.3.2. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/art/gif/gif-converter-232.hqx. Requires System 6.0.5 or later. GIFConverter is not better than JPEGView as a plain JPEG/GIF viewer, but it has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion capabilities, so you may find it worth its shareware fee if you do a lot of playing around with images. Also, the newest version of GIFConverter can load and save JFIF images *without* QuickTime, so it is your best bet if your machine is too old to run QuickTime. (But it's faster with QuickTime.) Note: If GIFConverter runs out of memory trying to load a large JPEG, try converting the file to GIF with JPEG Convert, then viewing the GIF version. JPEG Convert, a Mac version of the free IJG JPEG conversion utilities, is available from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/jpeg-convert-10.hqx. This will run on any Mac, but it only does file conversion, not viewing. You can use it in conjunction with any GIF viewer. Previous versions of this FAQ recommended Imagery JPEG v0.6, a JPEG<=>GIF converter based on an old version of the IJG code. If you are using this program, you definitely should replace it with JPEG Convert. Apple's free program PictPixie can view images in JFIF, QuickTime JPEG, and GIF format, and can convert between these formats. You can get PictPixie from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/qt.1.0.stuff/pictpixie.hqx. Requires QuickTime. PictPixie was intended as a developer's tool, and it's really not the best choice unless you like to fool around with QuickTime. Some of its drawbacks are that it requires lots of memory, it produces relatively poor color image quality on anything less than a 24-bit display, and it has a relatively unfriendly user interface. Worse, PictPixie is an unsupported program, meaning it has some minor bugs that Apple does not intend to fix. (There is an old version of PictPixie, called PICTCompressor, floating around the net. If you have this you should trash it, as it's even buggier. Also, the QuickTime Starter Kit includes a much cleaned-up descendant of PictPixie called Picture Compressor. Note that Picture Compressor is NOT free and may not be distributed on the net.) Storm Technology's Picture Decompress is a free JPEG viewer/converter. This rather old program is inferior to the above programs in many ways, but it will run without System 7 or QuickTime, so you may be forced to use it on older systems. (It does need 32-bit QuickDraw, so really old machines can't use it.) You can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/picture-decompress-201.hqx. You must set the file type of a downloaded image file to 'JPEG' to allow Picture Decompress to open it. If your machine is too old to run 32-bit QuickDraw (a Mac Plus for instance), GIFConverter is your only choice for single-program JPEG viewing. If you don't want to pay for GIFConverter, use JPEG Convert and a free GIF viewer. More and more commercial Mac applications are supporting JPEG, although not all can deal with the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Adobe Photoshop, version 2.0.1 or later, can read and write JFIF-format JPEG files (use the JPEG plug-in from the Acquire menu). You must set the file type of a downloaded JPEG file to 'JPEG' to allow Photoshop to recognize it. Amiga: (Most programs listed in this section are stored in the AmiNet archive at amiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). There are many mirror sites of this archive and you should try to use the closest one. In the USA, a good choice is wuarchive.wustl.edu; look under /mirrors/amiga.physik.unizh.ch/...) HamLab Plus is an excellent JPEG viewer/converter, as well as being a general image manipulation tool. It's cheap (shareware, $20) and can read several formats besides JPEG. The current version is 2.0.8. A demo version is available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file amiga/gfx/edit/hamlab208d.lha. The demo version will crop images larger than 512x512, but it is otherwise fully functional. Rend24 (shareware, $30) is an image renderer that can display JPEG, ILBM, and GIF images. The program can be used to create animations, even capturing frames on-the-fly from rendering packages like Lightwave. The current version is 1.05, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file amiga/os30/gfx/rend105.lha. (Note: although this directory is supposedly for AmigaDOS 3.0 programs, the program will also run under AmigaDOS 1.3, 2.04 or 2.1.) Viewtek is a free JPEG/ILBM/GIF/ANIM viewer. The current version is 1.04, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file amiga/gfx/show/ViewTek104.lha. If you're willing to spend real money, there are several commercial packages that support JPEG. Two are written by Thomas Krehbiel, the author of Rend24 and Viewtek. These are CineMorph, a standalone image morphing package, and ImageFX, an impressive 24-bit image capture, conversion, editing, painting, effects and prepress package that also includes CineMorph. Both are distributed by Great Valley Products. Art Department Professional (ADPro), from ASDG Inc, is the most widely used commercial image manipulation software for Amigas. ImageMaster, from Black Belt Systems, is another well-regarded commercial graphics package with JPEG support. The free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Amigas from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites) in directory amiga/gfx/conv, file AmigaJPEGV4.lha. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM,GIF,Targa formats. The Amiga world is heavily infested with quick-and-dirty JPEG programs, many based on an ancient beta-test version of the free IJG JPEG software (thanks to a certain magazine that published same on its disk-of-the-month, without so much as notifying the authors). Among these are ""AugJPEG"", ""NewAmyJPEG"", ""VJPEG"", and probably others I have not even heard of. In my opinion, anything older than IJG version 3 (March 1992) is not worth the disk space it's stored on; if you have such a program, trash it and get something newer. Atari ST: The free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Atari ST, TT, etc, from atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/jpeg4bin.zoo. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM, GIF, Targa formats. For monochrome ST monitors, try MGIF, which manages to achieve four-level grayscale effect by flickering. Version 4.1 reads JPEG files. Available from atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/mgif41b.zoo. I have not heard of any other free or shareware JPEG-capable viewers for Ataris, but surely there must be some by now? Pointers appreciated. Acorn Archimedes: !ChangeFSI, supplied with RISC OS 3 version 3.10, can convert from and view JPEG JFIF format. Provision is also made to convert images to JPEG, although this must be done from the CLI rather than by double-clicking. Recent versions (since 7.11) of the shareware program Translator can handle JPEG, along with about 30 other image formats. While older versions can be found on some Archimedes bboards, the current version is only available by registering with the author, John Kortink, Nutterbrink 31, 7544 WJ, Enschede, The Netherlands. Price 35 Dutch guilders (about $22 or 10 pounds). There's also a commercial product called !JPEG which provides JPEG read/write functionality and direct JPEG viewing, as well as a host of other image format conversion and processing options. This is more expensive but not necessarily better than the above programs. Contact: DT Software, FREEPOST, Cambridge, UK. Tel: 0223 841099. NeXT: ImageViewer is a PD utility that displays images and can do some format conversions. The current version reads JPEG but does not write it. ImageViewer is available from the standard NeXT archives at sonata.cc.purdue.edu and cs.orst.edu, somewhere in /pub/next (both are currently being re-organized, so it's hard to point to specific sub-directories). Note that there is an older version floating around that does not support JPEG. Portable software for almost any system: If none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the free JPEG conversion software described in 6B. You'll also need a viewer program. If your display is 8 bits or less, any GIF viewer will do fine; if you have a display with more color capability, try to find a viewer that can read Targa or PPM 24-bit image files. There are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every day. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find the available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case, purchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether the product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can handle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are not and never will be compatible with anyone else's files. [6B] If you are looking for source code to work with: Free, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent JPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code, documentation, and some small test files is available from several places. The ""official"" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9 or 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release is jpegsrc.v4.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don't forget to retrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP. If you are on a PC and don't know how to cope with .tar.Z format, you may prefer ZIP format, which you can find at Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE above), file msdos/graphics/jpegsrc4.zip. This file will also be available on CompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 15, as jpsrc4.zip. If you have no FTP access, you can retrieve the source from your nearest comp.sources.misc archive; version 4 appeared as issues 55-72 of volume 34. (If you don't know how to retrieve comp.sources.misc postings, see the FAQ article ""How to find sources"", referred to at the top of section 6.) The free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG ""JFIF"" format and image files in GIF, PBMPLUS PPM/PGM, Utah RLE, and Truevision Targa file formats. The core compression and decompression modules can easily be reused in other programs, such as image viewers. The package is highly portable; we have tested it on many machines ranging from PCs to Crays. We have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use. Companies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products. We do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in product literature (see the README file in the distribution for details). We hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with anything that's free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability. The Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you'd like to contribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join. [7] What's all this hoopla about color quantization? Most people don't have full-color (24 bit per pixel) display hardware. Typical display hardware stores 8 or fewer bits per pixel, so it can display 256 or fewer distinct colors at a time. To display a full-color image, the computer must map the image into an appropriate set of representative colors. This process is called ""color quantization"". (This is something of a misnomer, ""color selection"" would be a better term. We're stuck with the standard usage though.) Clearly, color quantization is a lossy process. It turns out that for most images, the details of the color quantization algorithm have MUCH more impact on the final image quality than do any errors introduced by JPEG (except at the very lowest JPEG quality settings). Since JPEG is a full-color format, converting a color JPEG image for display on 8-bit-or-less hardware requires color quantization. This is true for *all* color JPEGs: even if you feed a 256-or-less-color GIF into JPEG, what comes out of the decompressor is *not* 256 colors, but thousands of colors. This happens because JPEG's lossiness affects each pixel a little differently, so two pixels that started with identical colors will probably come out with slightly different colors. Each original color gets ""smeared"" into a group of nearby colors. Therefore quantization is always required to display a color JPEG on a colormapped display, regardless of the image source. The only way to avoid quantization is to ask for gray-scale output. (Incidentally, because of this effect it's nearly meaningless to talk about the number of colors used by a JPEG image. Even if you attempted to count the number of distinct pixel values, different JPEG decoders would give you different results because of roundoff error differences. I occasionally see posted images described as ""256-color JPEG"". This tells me that the poster (a) hasn't read this FAQ and (b) probably converted the JPEG from a GIF. JPEGs can be classified as color or gray-scale (just like photographs), but number of colors just isn't a useful concept for JPEG.) On the other hand, a GIF image by definition has already been quantized to 256 or fewer colors. (A GIF *does* have a definite number of colors in its palette, and the format doesn't allow more than 256 palette entries.) For purposes of Usenet picture distribution, GIF has the advantage that the sender precomputes the color quantization, so recipients don't have to. This is also the *disadvantage* of GIF: you're stuck with the sender's quantization. If the sender quantized to a different number of colors than what you can display, you have to re-quantize, resulting in much poorer image quality than if you had quantized once from a full-color image. Furthermore, if the sender didn't use a high-quality color quantization algorithm, you're out of luck. For this reason, JPEG offers the promise of significantly better image quality for all users whose machines don't match the sender's display hardware. JPEG's full color image can be quantized to precisely match the user's display hardware. Furthermore, you will be able to take advantage of future improvements in quantization algorithms (there is a lot of active research in this area), or purchase better display hardware, to get a better view of JPEG images you already have. With a GIF, you're stuck forevermore with what was sent. It's also worth mentioning that many GIF-viewing programs include rather shoddy quantization routines. If you view a 256-color GIF on a 16-color EGA display, for example, you are probably getting a much worse image than you need to. This is partly an inevitable consequence of doing two color quantizations (one to create the GIF, one to display it), but often it's also due to sloppiness. JPEG conversion programs will be forced to use high quality quantizers in order to get acceptable results at all, and in normal use they will quantize directly to the number of colors to be displayed. Thus, JPEG is likely to provide better results than the average GIF program for low-color-resolution displays as well as high-resolution ones! Finally, an ever-growing number of people have better-than-8-bit display hardware already: 15-bit ""hi-color"" PC displays, true 24-bit displays on workstations and Macintoshes, etc. For these people, GIF is already obsolete, as it cannot represent an image to the full capabilities of their display. JPEG images can drive these displays much more effectively. Thus, JPEG is an all-around better choice than GIF for representing images in a machine-independent fashion. [8] How does JPEG work? The buzz-words to know are chrominance subsampling, discrete cosine transforms, coefficient quantization, and Huffman or arithmetic entropy coding. This article's long enough already, so I'm not going to say more than that here. For technical information, see the comp.compression FAQ. This is available from the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu, in files /pub/usenet/news.answers/compression-faq/part[1-3]. If you need help in using the news.answers archive, see the top of this article. [9] What about lossless JPEG? There's a great deal of confusion on this subject. The JPEG committee did define a truly lossless compression algorithm, i.e., one that guarantees the final output is bit-for-bit identical to the original input. However, this lossless mode has almost nothing in common with the regular, lossy JPEG algorithm, and it offers much less compression. At present, very few implementations of lossless JPEG exist, and all of them are commercial. Saying ""-Q 100"" to the free JPEG software DOES NOT get you a lossless image. What it does get rid of is deliberate information loss in the coefficient quantization step. There is still a good deal of information loss in the color subsampling step. (With the V4 free JPEG code, you can also say ""-sample 1x1"" to turn off subsampling. Keep in mind that many commercial JPEG implementations cannot cope with the resulting file.) Even with both quantization and subsampling turned off, the regular JPEG algorithm is not lossless, because it is subject to roundoff errors in various calculations. The maximum error is a few counts in any one pixel value; it's highly unlikely that this could be perceived by the human eye, but it might be a concern if you are doing machine processing of an image. At this minimum-loss setting, regular JPEG produces files that are perhaps half the size of an uncompressed 24-bit-per-pixel image. True lossless JPEG provides roughly the same amount of compression, but it guarantees bit-for-bit accuracy. If you have an application requiring lossless storage of images with less than 6 bits per pixel (per color component), you may want to look into the JBIG bilevel image compression standard. This performs better than JPEG lossless on such images. JPEG lossless is superior to JBIG on images with 6 or more bits per pixel; furthermore, JPEG is public domain (at least with a Huffman back end), while the JBIG techniques are heavily covered by patents. [10] Why all the argument about file formats? Strictly speaking, JPEG refers only to a family of compression algorithms; it does *not* refer to a specific image file format. The JPEG committee was prevented from defining a file format by turf wars within the international standards organizations. Since we can't actually exchange images with anyone else unless we agree on a common file format, this leaves us with a problem. In the absence of official standards, a number of JPEG program writers have just gone off to ""do their own thing"", and as a result their programs aren't compatible with anybody else's. The closest thing we have to a de-facto standard JPEG format is some work that's been coordinated by people at C-Cube Microsystems. They have defined two JPEG-based file formats: * JFIF (JPEG File Interchange Format), a ""low-end"" format that transports pixels and not much else. * TIFF/JPEG, aka TIFF 6.0, an extension of the Aldus TIFF format. TIFF is a ""high-end"" format that will let you record just about everything you ever wanted to know about an image, and a lot more besides :-). TIFF is a lot more complex than JFIF, and may well prove less transportable, because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different and incompatible subsets of TIFF. It's not likely that adding JPEG to the mix will do anything to improve this situation. Both of these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors of JPEG-related products; it's reasonably likely that future commercial products will adhere to one or both standards. I believe that Usenet should adopt JFIF as the replacement for GIF in picture postings. JFIF is simpler than TIFF and is available now; the TIFF 6.0 spec has only recently been officially adopted, and it is still unusably vague on some crucial details. Even when TIFF/JPEG is well defined, the JFIF format is likely to be a widely supported ""lowest common denominator""; TIFF/JPEG files may never be as transportable. A particular case that people may be interested in is Apple's QuickTime software for the Macintosh. QuickTime uses a JFIF-compatible format wrapped inside the Mac-specific PICT structure. Conversion between JFIF and QuickTime JPEG is pretty straightforward, and several Mac programs are available to do it (see Mac portion of section 6A). If you have an editor that handles binary files, you can strip a QuickTime JPEG PICT down to JFIF by hand; see section 11 for details. Another particular case is Handmade Software's programs (GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF and Image Alchemy). These programs are capable of reading and writing JFIF format. By default, though, they write a proprietary format developed by HSI. This format is NOT readable by any non-HSI programs and should not be used for Usenet postings. Use the -j switch to get JFIF output. (This applies to old versions of these programs; the current releases emit JFIF format by default. You still should be careful not to post HSI-format files, unless you want to get flamed by people on non-PC platforms.) [11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it? If you have an alleged JPEG file that your software won't read, it's likely to be HSI format or some other proprietary JPEG-based format. You can tell what you have by inspecting the first few bytes of the file: 1. A JFIF-standard file will start with the characters (hex) FF D8 FF E0, followed by two variable bytes (often hex 00 10), followed by 'JFIF'. 2. If you see FF D8 at the start, but not the rest of it, you may have a ""raw JPEG"" file. This is probably decodable as-is by JFIF software --- it's worth a try, anyway. 3. HSI files start with 'hsi1'. You're out of luck unless you have HSI software. Portions of the file may look like plain JPEG data, but they won't decompress properly with non-HSI programs. 4. A Macintosh PICT file, if JPEG-compressed, will have a couple hundred bytes of header followed by a JFIF header (scan for 'JFIF'). Strip off everything before the FF D8 and you should be able to read it. 5. Anything else: it's a proprietary format, or not JPEG at all. If you are lucky, the file may consist of a header and a raw JPEG data stream. If you can identify the start of the JPEG data stream (look for FF D8), try stripping off everything before that. In uuencoded Usenet postings, the characteristic JFIF pattern is ""begin"" line M_]C_X ... whereas uuencoded HSI files will start with ""begin"" line M:'-I ... If you learn to check for the former, you can save yourself the trouble of downloading non-JFIF files. [12] What about arithmetic coding? The JPEG spec defines two different ""back end"" modules for the final output of compressed data: either Huffman coding or arithmetic coding is allowed. The choice has no impact on image quality, but arithmetic coding usually produces a smaller compressed file. On typical images, arithmetic coding produces a file 5 or 10 percent smaller than Huffman coding. (All the file-size numbers previously cited are for Huffman coding.) Unfortunately, the particular variant of arithmetic coding specified by the JPEG standard is subject to patents owned by IBM, AT&T, and Mitsubishi. Thus *you cannot legally use arithmetic coding* unless you obtain licenses from these companies. (The ""fair use"" doctrine allows people to implement and test the algorithm, but actually storing any images with it is dubious at best.) At least in the short run, I recommend that people not worry about arithmetic coding; the space savings isn't great enough to justify the potential legal hassles. In particular, arithmetic coding *should not* be used for any images to be exchanged on Usenet. There is some small chance that the legal situation may change in the future. Stay tuned for further details. [13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression? It would be nice if, having compressed an image with JPEG, you could decompress it, manipulate it (crop off a border, say), and recompress it without any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially. Unfortunately THIS IS NOT THE CASE. In general, recompressing an altered image loses more information, though usually not as much as was lost the first time around. The next best thing would be that if you decompress an image and recompress it *without changing it* then there is no further loss, i.e., you get an identical JPEG file. Even this is not true; at least, not with the current free JPEG software. It's essentially a problem of accumulation of roundoff error. If you repeatedly compress and decompress, the image will eventually degrade to where you can see visible changes from the first-generation output. (It usually takes many such cycles to get visible change.) One of the things on our to-do list is to see if accumulation of error can be avoided or limited, but I am not optimistic about it. In any case, the most that could possibly be guaranteed would be that compressing the unmodified full-color output of djpeg, at the original quality setting, would introduce no further loss. Even such simple changes as cropping off a border could cause further roundoff-error degradation. (If you're wondering why, it's because the pixel-block boundaries move. If you cropped off only multiples of 16 pixels, you might be safe, but that's a mighty limited capability!) The bottom line is that JPEG is a useful format for archival storage and transmission of images, but you don't want to use it as an intermediate format for sequences of image manipulation steps. Use a lossless format (PPM, RLE, TIFF, etc) while working on the image, then JPEG it when you are ready to file it away. Aside from avoiding degradation, you will save a lot of compression/decompression time this way :-). [14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG? As stated earlier, you *will* lose some amount of image information if you convert an existing GIF image to JPEG. If you can obtain the original full-color data the GIF was made from, it's far better to make a JPEG from that. But if you need to save space and have only the GIF to work from, here are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum loss of quality. The first rule when converting a GIF library is to look at each JPEG, to make sure you are happy with it, before throwing away the corresponding GIF; that will give you a chance to re-do the conversion with a higher quality setting if necessary. Some GIFs may be better left as GIFs, as explained in section 3; in particular, cartoon-type GIFs with sixteen or fewer colors don't convert well. You may find that a JPEG file of reasonable quality will be *larger* than the GIF. (So check the sizes too.) Experience to date suggests that large, high-visual-quality GIFs are the best candidates for conversion to JPEG. They chew up the most storage so offer the most potential savings, and they convert to JPEG with least degradation. Don't waste your time converting any GIF much under 100 Kbytes. Also, don't expect JPEG files converted from GIFs to be as small as those created directly from full-color originals. To maintain image quality you may have to let the converted files be as much as twice as big as straight-through JPEG files would be (i.e., shoot for 1/2 or 1/3rd the size of the GIF file, not 1/4th as suggested in earlier comparisons). Many people have developed an odd habit of putting a large constant-color border around a GIF image. While useless, this was nearly free in terms of storage cost in GIF files. It is NOT free in JPEG files, and the sharp border boundary can create visible artifacts (""ghost"" edges). Do yourself a favor and crop off any border before JPEGing. (If you are on an X Windows system, XV's manual and automatic cropping functions are a very painless way to do this.) cjpeg's default Q setting of 75 is appropriate for full-color input, but for GIF inputs, Q settings of 85 to 95 often seem to be necessary to avoid image degradation. (If you apply smoothing as suggested below, the higher Q setting may not be necessary.) Color GIFs of photographs or complex artwork are usually ""dithered"" to fool your eye into seeing more than the 256 colors that GIF can actually store. If you enlarge the image, you will see that adjacent pixels are often of significantly different colors; at normal size the eye averages these pixels together to produce the illusion of an intermediate color value. The trouble with dithering is that, to JPEG, it looks like high-spatial-frequency color noise; and JPEG can't compress noise very well. The resulting JPEG file is both larger and of lower image quality than what you would have gotten from JPEGing the original full color image (if you had it). To get around this, you want to ""smooth"" the GIF image before compression. Smoothing averages together nearby pixels, thus approximating the color that you thought you saw anyway, and in the process getting rid of the rapid color changes that give JPEG trouble. Appropriate use of smoothing will often let you avoid using a high Q factor, thus further reducing the size of the compressed file, while still obtaining a better-looking output image than you'd get without smoothing. With the V4 free JPEG software (or products based on it), a simple smoothing capability is built in. Try ""-smooth 10"" or so when converting GIFs. Values of 10 to 25 seem to work well for high-quality GIFs. Heavy-handed dithering may require larger smoothing factors. (If you can see regular fine-scale patterns on the GIF image even without enlargement, then strong smoothing is definitely called for.) Too large a smoothing factor will blur the output image, which you don't want. If you are an image processing wizard, you can also do smoothing with a separate filtering program, such as pnmconvol from the PBMPLUS package. However, cjpeg's built-in smoother is a LOT faster than pnmconvol... The upshot of all this is that ""cjpeg -quality 85 -smooth 10"" is probably a good starting point for converting GIFs. But if you really care about the image, you'll want to check the results and maybe try a few other settings. --------------------- For more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in particular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net. -- tom lane organizer, Independent JPEG Group Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie ",1 "subscribe me please subscribe me. e-mail: rpicas@porto.inescn.pt ",5 "Parallel port Can anybody please help me with information on the use of the bi-directional printer port. I have successfully used one on a Toshiba laptop by enabling bit 0 of port 0x37f and controlling bit 7 of port 0x37a for the direction of data flow (ie ""0"" for output, ""1"" for input). The same code does not work on my desktop machine. I have heard that i might have to use bit 5 of port 0x37a, however this also does not work. For a parallel port i am using one of those IDE SUPER I/O cards and have been running a tape backup unit off it via a parallel to scsi converter so i am pretty sure that the printer port is bi-directional. Any information would be greatly appreasiated. Please post a reply here or Email me on INTERNET rick@cabsav.vut.edu.au Thanks Richard Muratti. * Origin: Custom Programming BBS (3:632/341) ",3 "Jumper Settings for MicroScience HD OK, I'll try one more time with this one. If ANYONE out there has ANY information on MicroScience hard drives and how to set the jumpers (and where they are?) for master/slave configurations. I will gladly accept any info, as I have a 110M'er sitting in my room collecting dust just waiting for me to install huge applications. :) Thanks in advance. (And yes, I regulary check the IDE Harddisk Spec that is posted here.) -= Adam Cheal =- i3y092@rick.cs.ubc.ca ",3 "Re: XV 3.00 has escaped! Julian G. Self (julian@comp.lancs.ac.uk) wrote: : Wasn't the shareware fee a ""suggestion"" by John? : Is so then it's up to the individual to make the choice whether or not to : honour it and part with money. Personally if I was in his position I would : do exactly the same thing, John has obviously put in lot of time and effort : into xv and why shouldn't he receive some money for it. : Just my pennies worth : (Keep up the good work John) Yeah I agree..I am very impressed by the kind of effort that has gone into the lastest release...some people are just looking for excuses to gripe.. I personally feel that the work is worth much more that $25...after seeing the kind of things people get paid for.. d. ",5 "Thousands of Armenians were serving the German army and Waffen-SS. In article <48095@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> hminassi@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (HM) writes: > ""Turkey must bare its teeth to Armenia."" Sooner than you expect. Remember 'Cyprus'? > I have to say I vehemently disagree with you, I have seen Too bad. In fact, by 1942, Nazi Armenians in Europe had established a vast network of pro-German collaborators, that extended over two continents. Thousands of Armenians were serving the German army and Waffen-SS in Russia and Western Europe. Armenians were involved in espionage and fifth-column activities for Hitler in the Balkans and Arabian Peninsula. They were promised an 'independent' state under German 'protection' in an agreement signed by the 'Armenian National Council.' (A copy of this agreement can be found in the 'Congressional Record,' November 1, 1945; see Document 1.) On this side of the Atlantic, Nazi Armenians were aware of their brethrens alliance. They had often expressed pro-Nazi sentiments until America entered the war. In summary, during World War II Armenians were carried away with the German might and cringing and fawning over the Nazis. In that zeal, the Armenian publication in Germany, Hairenik, carried statements as follows:[1] ""Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate these poisonous elements (the Jews) when they have struck deep root like a chronic disease, and when it becomes necessary for a people (the Nazis) to eradicate them in an uncommon method, these attempts are regarded as revolutionary. During the surgical operation, the flow of blood is a natural thing."" Now for a brief view of the Armenian genocide of the Muslims and Jews - extracts from a letter dated December 11, 1983, published in the San Francisco Chronicle, as an answer to a letter that had been published in the same journal under the signature of one B. Amarian. ""...We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian atrocities against our people (Jews)...Members of our family witnessed the murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum, Turkey, by Armenian neighbors, bent on destroying anything and anybody remotely Jewish and/or Muslim. Armenians should look to their own history and see the havoc they and their ancestors perpetrated upon their neighbors... Armenians were in league with Hitler in the last war, on his premise to grant them self government if, in return, the Armenians would help exterminate Jews...Armenians were also hearty proponents of the anti-Semitic acts in league with the Russian Communists. Mr. Amarian! I don't need your bias."" Signed Elihu Ben Levi, Vacaville, California. [1] James G. Mandalian, 'Dro, Drastamat Kanayan,' in the 'Armenian Review,' a Quarterly by the Hairenik Association, Inc., Summer: June 1957, Vol. X, No. 2-38. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: When are two people married in God's e The only reason for the death penalty is revenge?? If you are going to try to refute a position, try to refute the whole position or acknosledge that you are only speaking to small piece of the problem. Broad sweeping ""the only reason, "" etc on as tough nut to crack as the death penalty reallly doesn't help much. Every year the FBI releases crime stats showing an overwhelming amount of crime is committed by repeat offenders. People are killed by folks who have killed (who knows how many times) before. How aobut folks who are for the death penalty, not for revenge, but to cut down on recidivism? Jim ",15 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? John Berryhill, Ph.D. writes >I don't know who's next, but I hope it's people who pick their noses >while driving. umm, please don't lump us all together. It's those blatant, fundamentalist pickers that give the rest of us a bad name. Some of us try very hard to be discreet and stay alert. -- Peter M. Yadlowsky | Wake! The sky is light! Academic Computing Center | Let us to the Net again... University of Virginia | Companion keyboard. pmy@Virginia.EDU | - after Basho ",19 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article cj@sgi.com writes: > >In article <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu writes: >| If you are paying for a phone, and you don't want call-waiting, YOU DON'T >| NEED TO PAY FOR CALl-WAITING. >[...] >| If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT >| ""abortion coverage"" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED >| to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction >| coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage). > >Why the hell would somebody named ""Dennis"" be paying for >abortion coverage at all? Why aren't you also complaining that >you want your insurance premiums reduced because you won't be >needing that pap smear coverage? > >C J Silverio cj@sgi.com ceej@well.sf.ca.us How would someone named ""Dennis"" be stuck paying for ""abortion coverage"" ... if abortion is put under a catagory of a ""general medical procedure."" You have to ask the insurer: ""Would my policy cover an abortion?"" to find out. If it does, you should have a right to decline that ""coverage"" if YOU DON'T WANT IT. The basic premise in private insurance is that you pay for the coverage YOU WANT. If basically you want ""catastrophic coverage"" you get a policy with a high deductible (with a correspondingly LOWER premium). Similarly, you don't have to be COMPELLED to take on a policy covering things like liposuction or hair transplantation, if you DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF COVERAGE, again, at a corresponding savings to you. If you don't want to be ""covered"" for abortion, you should not be COMPELLED to. To millions of Christians, abortion is not a ""gynocological examination"" or a ""pap smear."" To them abortion is murder. To them, being ""covered for abortion"" means that they are paying for a ""service,"" which THEY THINK IS EVIL, CLEARLY DON'T WANT, and will NEVER USE. In such a case, all that is happening is that they are being COMPELLED to help pay for OTHER PEOPLE'S abortions. When you are being forced to BUY something you DON'T WANT and will NEVER USE, this is called extortion. When the mafia tells a restaurant owner to ""buy"" a ""juke-box"" for the owner's ""protection"" this is called racketeering. And if one's access to health care is held hostage to signing a defacto ""loyalty oath"" in support of abortion, by promising to help pay for other people's abortions (when one is clearly opposed to this procedure) this is tantamount to the same thing. dennis dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu ",19 "Looking For A Teacher in Miami Sounds a little odd but I sold an Amiga hand scanner to an elementary school teacher in south Florida (Miami, I think) but I have just recently found that I still have the scanner manual. The original shipment included the software manual, disks, packaging, etc. Basically, I have since lost the name & address of the  person I sold it to...and I would like to get it to him. If that person sees this, please send me an email to: dlneal@cbda9.apgea.army.mil thanx, and sorry for taking up net space. -Dennis ",6 "Re: Mormon Temples From: dhammers@pacific.? (David Hammerslag) How do you (Mormons) reconcile the idea of eternal marriage with Christ's statement that in the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)? Footnotes in some bibles reference this verse to the Book of Tobit. Tobit is in the Septuagint. Goodspeed published it in a book called ""The Apocrypha"". Most any bookstore will have this. At any rate, the Jews of Christ's day had this book. It is a story mostly centered around the son of Tobit who was named Tobias. There was a young lady, Sarah, who had entered the bridal chamber with seven brothers in succession. The brothers all died in the chamber before consumating the marriage. Tobias was entitled to have Sarah for his wife (3:17) because Tobias was her only relative and ""...she was destined for [Tobias] from the beginning"" (6:17). Tobias took her to wife and was able to consumate the marriage. The seven husbands would not have her as a partner in heaven. That does not eliminate Tobias, her eighth husband. Tobit is a fun and interesting story to read. It's kind of a mythical romance. It's a little shorter than Esther. The LDS also have scriptures that parallel and amplify Luke 20. Most notably Doctrines and Covenants 132:15-16. ""Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world. ""Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory."" Cordially, Charles Dike ",15 "Re: Go Hezbollah!! In article <1993Apr14.125813.21737@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.edu (Brad Hernlem) writes: > > Lebanese resistance forces detonated a bomb under an Israeli occupation > patrol in Lebanese territory two days ago. Three soldiers were killed and > two wounded. In ""retaliation"", Israeli and Israeli-backed forces wounded > 8 civilians by bombarding several Lebanese villages. Ironically, the Israeli > government justifies its occupation in Lebanon by claiming that it is > necessary to prevent such bombardments of Israeli villages!! > > Congratulations to the brave men of the Lebanese resistance! With every > Israeli son that you place in the grave you are underlining the moral > bankruptcy of Israel's occupation and drawing attention to the Israeli > government's policy of reckless disregard for civilian life. > > Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU) I'm sure the Federal Bureau of Investigation (fbi.gov on the Internet) is going to *love* reading your incitement to murder. Josh backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL ",17 "Re: was: Go Hezbollah!! In article eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: > >What the hell do you know about Israeli policy? What gives you the fiat >to look into the minds of Israeli generals? Has this 'policy of intimidation' >been published somewhere? For your information, the actions taken by Arabs, >specifically the PLO, were not uncommon in the Lebanon Campaign of 1982. My >brain is full of shit? At least I don't look into the minds of others and >make Israeli policy for them! > ... deleted I am not in the business of reading minds, however in this case it would not be necessary. Israelis top leaders in the past and present, always come across as arrogant with their tough talks trying to intimidate the Arabs. The way I see it, Israelis and Arabs have not been able to achieve peace after almost 50 years of fighting because of the following two major reasons: 1) Arab governments are not really representative of their people, currently most of their leaders are stupid, and/or not independent, and/or dictators. 2) Israeli government is arrogant and none comprising. ",17 "Re: HBP? BB? BIG-CAT? In article , kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes: I don't |> blame players like Galarraga, Dawson and McGee when they swing at |> a strike and put the ball in play. Well, no problem! But I get pretty annoyed when they swing at non-strikes and make outs. Especially ball four on the 3-2 counts... Dave -- Dave DeMers demers@cs.ucsd.edu Computer Science & Engineering 0114 demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet UC San Diego ...!ucsd!cs!demers La Jolla, CA 92093-0114 (619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029 ",9 "EC BHP limit vetoed According to BBC Radio this morning, UK, Denmark, Portugal & a few others have vetoed a proposal to limit EC-sold bikes to 100 BHP. The reason is that such a limit is not supported by accident statistics - a rare example of governmental wisdom. The limit has a five year moratorium on it, and ""specialist"" manufacturers will be exempt anyway. Any suspicion that this is a crafty trick to restrict that end of the market in Europe to Triumph, Norton (who? :-)), BMW, Cagiva & Ducati is the sort of dangerous rubbish which stalls GATT talks. You heard it here first. Bill @ Univ Edinburgh, replete with 12 hp and a healthy blue exhaust. ",8 "Re: Organized Lobbying for Cryptography In article hcs@transfer.stratus.com, cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison) writes: > >To paraphrase, I may not agree with what you're encrypting, but I defend >your right to encrypt it. > Great slogan! I'm ready to sign up with a crypto-lobbying effort (though I wouldn't want to do it through an NRA offshoot). Shall we also push for the CRA -- Cryptographic Rights Amendment ?? +========================================================================+ | dwight tuinstra best: tuinstra@sandman.ece.clarkson.edu | | tolerable: tuinstrd@craft.camp.clarkson.edu | | | | ""Homo sapiens: planetary cancer?? ... News at six"" | +========================================================================+ ",11 "IDE & MFM in same machine? HOW? If anyone out there can help, I would greatly appreciate it. This christmas, I built a computer out of used parts for my Father-in-law. The disk drive that I installed was a Seagate 251-1 MFM. Anyway, he now he would like to put another HD into this system. I DON'T want to buy another MFM, the only reason why I used an MFM in the first place is that it was FREE. Would I need a special IDE HD controller? Also, if I do need a special IDE controller, where can I purchase one, & how much are they? Please send any responses to: lynn@vax1.mankato.msus.edu Thanks in advance, Stan Tyree ",3 "Re: Keeping Spacecraft on after Funding Cuts. In article <1r6aqr$dnv@access.digex.net>, prb@access (Pat) writes: >Voyager has the unusual luck to be on a stable trajectory out of the >solar system. All it's doing is collecting fields data, and routinely >squirting it down. One of the mariners is also in stable >solar orbit, and still providing similiar solar data. There are no Mariner craft from which we are still receiving data. I believe you are referring to one or more of Pioneers 6 through 9 (launched from December 1965 through November 1968), which were put into solar orbits to study interplanetary space. I recall reading that at least one of them was still functioning 25 years after launch. -- Chris Jones clj@ksr.com ",14 "Re: Stop The SeXularHumanistOppression { former my beloved Damn Ferigner's Be Taken Over} In article gregotts@spss.com (Greg Otts) writes: >In article muftix@junior.BinTec.DE (Juergen Ernst Guenther) writes: >> >>I never understood why Canadians, Mexicans, Brazilians etc. accusing >>US. people for imperialism though think of them as ""The Americans"". >> >>Not few Europeans think of you all as Americans (and of the US. as >>a bunch of blasphemeous trash that GOD has to extinguish sooner or later ...;) >> >> .m. > >It would not be surprising that a continent that produced fascism, communism, >and two world wars might have quite a few people who tend to think of other >people as trash that should be extinguished sooner or later. I seem to >remember a gut called Hitler who felt the same way. One wonders what would be >the fate of Europe if God had extinguished this nation of blasphemeous trash >before 1917. (Not that I believe in gods.) How many millions of people through- >out the world would have to die because no force could stop the insane, bloody >European imperialism? Thankfully the ""imperialistic"" US helped put an end to >these games so that the rest of the world can sleep alittle more safely. Thus, I >could care less what ""not few Europeans"" think so long as they can't do anything >about it. > > - Greg Otts > >These opinions are entirely my own. > But remember that had God extinguished the blasphemous trash of Europe (and Imperialism with it), the United States would not exist today to put an end to those ""games""....begs the question, which came first, the chicken or the egg??? C.Brown ",18 "Re: Trouble compiling X11R5 on SunOS_4.1.3 In article <1993Apr2.212405.5213@head-cfa.harvard.edu> dmm@head-cfa.harvard.edu (David Meleedy) writes: > I've been trying to compile X11R5 patchlevel 23 on a Sun Sparc > IPX using SunOS_4.1.3, and gcc 2.3.3. > > The problem occurs during the initial ""make World"". When > it gets up to compiling the standard X clients, it can't seem to find > some of the libraries. Right now we highly suspect the program ""ld"" > which was updated for 4_1_3. > Yip, we had the same problem; the only fix we found was to link static some of the clients, ( btw, we used cc). :-(. -- /+=========================================++================================+\ ||Francisco J. Ballesteros [a.k.a. Nemo] || email: nemo@clip.dia.fi.upm.es|| ||org: Computer Science, CLIP lab. || phone: +34 1 336-7448 || || Campus Montegancedo s.n. U.P.M. || ___ ___ || || Boadilla del Monte, Madrid, Spain. || \\ \\ o \\_) \ _ \__ || \+=========================================++== \\__ \\__\\ \\ == \_(_\_\_) =+/ ",5 "Clarification: Easter In response to a lot of email I've gotten, I need to clarify my position. I am not in favor of paganism. I am not in favor of the Easter Bunny or other non-Christian aspects of Easter as presently celebrated. (Incidentally, Easter eggs are not non-Christian; they are a way of ending the Lenten fast.) My point was to distinguish between (1) intentionally worshipping a pagan deity, and (2) doing something which may once have had pagan associations, but nowadays is not understood or intended as such. Many people who are doing (2) are being accused of (1). It would be illogical to claim that one is ""really"" worshipping a pagan deity without knowing it. Worship is a matter of intention. One cannot worship without knowing that one is doing so. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",15 "Daily Verse When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen: Luke 19:37 ",15 "PCs from Gateway - opinions sought Sorry if this has been beaten to death on this forum. I am looking seriously at buying a 486 DX / 33 from Gateway. I will probably buy it without a monitor, as I've heard negative stuff about Gateway monitors. I've also heard its tough to get through to technical support. I'm seeking opinions on whether or not its wise to go ahead based on criteria such as price, warranty service, general ruggedness of the system, reliability of the machine and of Gateway too, and so on. Please advise!! Thanks in advance! Vasudev Murthy -- Vasudev Murthy Any opinions expressed are strictly murthy@asl.dl.nec.com my own and have nothing to do with (214) 518-3602 Advanced Switching Lab, NEC America, Inc. 1525 Walnut Hill Lane Irving TX 75038 ",3 "Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000 In article <33759@oasys.dt.navy.mil> tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Tobias) writes: >In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes: >> I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the >>$13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to be >>driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to feel >>some acceleration. Handling is important also, as are reliability and pretty >>low maintenance costs. A stylish appearance is nice, but I don't want a car >>that is all show and not much go. Even though many of the imports are fast, I >>don't really want a turbo, and I never have cared for the song sung by a four >>clyinder. I'd prefer a v6 or v8 for the engine. If you have any suggestions, >>Kevin Parker > > There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled: > > 5.0 LITER MUSTANG not! sorry, he said cvility, long trips, reliability, and low maintenance cost! ",7 "Apple 8*24 GC Video Card A friend of mine recently acquired an 8!24 GC card for his IIsi and was wondering why it always starts up in black and white. I know there have been numerous reports about the worth of the GC, but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate a little more on the subject. Any replies encouraged. Thanks in ad- vance. Joe Kasanic ",4 "Re: Jemison on Star Trek (Better Ideas) In article <1rbp6q$oai@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: > In article <1993Apr22.214735.22733@Princeton.EDU> phoenix.Princeton.EDU!carlosn (Carlos G. Niederstrasser) writes: >>A transporter operator!?!? That better be one important transport. Usually >>it is a nameless ensign who does the job. For such a guest appearance I would >>have expected a more visible/meaningful role. > > > Christian Slater, only gota cameo on ST6, > > and besides. > > Maybe she can't act:-) > > pat > Better idea for use of NASA Shuttle Astronauts and Crew is have them be found lost in space after a accident with a worm hole or other space/time glitch.. Maybe age Jemison a few years (makeup and such) and have her as the only survivour of a failed shuttle mission that got lost.. Heh of late, they way they have been having shuttle problems in the media, anything can happen.. Imagine a Astronaut/Crew member to find themselves in the 24th Century as the object of interest of an alien civilization, maybe rescued or helped by the ST Enterprise... I know Vegr and such was okay, but this could be better.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ",14 "Re: And America's Team is....But Why? In article cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes: > > The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes >out of nowhere to contend. The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples, Uh, I don't think you can call a team with Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, and Nolan Ryan on the pitching staff a team that has ""no talent."" They did come out of nowhere, but some of the improvement was forseeable. Greg ",9 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: :mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes: : :> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day :> in Texas. : :Do YOU eat all your food cold? Thank you for pointing out the obvious to people who so clearly missed it. I can't stand it when people's first reaction is to defend the aggressor. Mr. Tavares, you have a unique and thoughtful way of getting to the heart of the matter, and I thank you for putting it to good use. Mike Ruff -- - This above all, to thine own S T R I D E R mikey@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu - self be true. --Polonius * * ***** ** * * **** ***** *** * * Those who would sacrifice essential * * * * * * * * * * ** * liberties for a little temporary * * * **** * * **** * * * * * safety deserve neither liberty * * * * * * * * * * * ** nor safety. --B. Franklin **** * * * **** **** * *** * * ",16 "Re: Rosicrucian Order(s) ?! In article <1qppef$i5b@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Alicea) writes: > Kent: > You say that > >There are about 4-10 competing Rosicrucian orders existing today, ^^^^^^^^^ > >most of them are spin-offs from OTO and other competing organizations > >from the 19th century France/Germany. Maybe I should write an article > Please don't! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ huh? it might be interesting. he is relating the story as I have heard it, btw. > >about all this, I spent some time investigating these organizations > >and their conceptual world view systems. > Name just three *really* competing Rosicrucian Orders. I have > probably spent more time than you doing the same. > None of them are spin-offs from O.T.O. The opposite may be the > case. huh? care to back that up? josh ",19 "Re: What planets are habitable In article , loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) writes: > In article jpg@bnr.co.uk (Jonathan P. Gibbons) writes: >>I would appreciate any thoughts on what makes a planet habitable for Humans. >>I am making asumptions that life and a similar atmosphere evolve given a range >>of physical aspects of the planet. The question is what physical aspects >>simply disallow earth like conditions. >> [deleted] >> > Dandridge Cole and Isaac Asimov collaborated on a book titled, > ""Habitable Planets for Man"" (I think) in 1964. It should be available > in most good libraries, or through inter-library loan. > This is the high-school science version; the original Rand study by Stephen H Dole ""Planets for Man"" gives the harder numbers & graphs & such (but predates Michael Hart's (& later) work on continuously habitable zones) ",14 "QUESTION: How to get serial mouse working on IBM notebook L40? Do you happen to know how I can get a serial mouse (9 pins) working on an IBM L40 notebook (which has a kind of bus mouse connection besides serial and parallel interfaces). The manual doesn't say anything about it. I've tried two drivers, with the result that left and right buttons are recognized, but mouse movement is not. Should I cut or shortcut some wires to/from the mouse? Thanks for your help. Eddy Zondag Philips Research egzondag@prl.philips.nl ",3 "Re: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis In article <1483500352@igc.apc.org>, Center for Policy Research writes: |> |> From: Center for Policy Research |> Subject: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis |> |> |> To: shaig@Think.COM |> |> Subject: Ten questions to Israelis |> |> Dear Shai, |> |> In the answer to my first question, concerning the nonexistence of |> Israeli nationality, your answer conflicts with information I have |> received from other quarters, according to which there are two |> distinct categories of classifying Israelis: Citizenship |> (Ezrahut) and Nationality (Le'um). The former is used on passports |> etc, and the later for daily identification in Israeli society. I |> am told that people in Israel have to carry their ID cards at all |> times and present them at many public places, almost every day. |> These ID cards make clear who the holder is, a Jew or an Arab. |> You maintain that this mainly because of religious services |> provided. But do you really believe that this is the reason ? |> Could you provide evidence that this is the case and that it |> serves no other purpose ? A number of points. You are making assumptions about the manner in which the cards are used. True, by law, all residents, citizens, and tourists must carry a form of identification with them. For citizens, the standard ID is the ID card. The purpose this serves on a daily basis, wherein they are presented at public places, is for the purpose of identifying the bearer. This takes place in banks (cashing checks), post offices (registered mail and such), etc... Quite frankly, it was rare that I ever had to present my ID card for such activities more than once per week. There is no law or requirement that forces people to wave their ID cards in public. Furthermore, none of the services I outlined discriminate against the bearer in any manner by having access to this information. The only case that I can think of in which the Le'um field might be taken into account is during interaction with the police, based upon the scenario. In general though, arab citizens are clearly recognizable, as are non-arabs. Your argument therefore becomes moot unless you can provide an example of how this field is being used to discriminate against them officially. |> In the answer to my second questions, concerning the fact that |> Israel has no fixed borders, you state that Israel's borders were |> 'shaped and reshaped by both war and peace'. According to what I |> read, the first Zionists in the beginning of the Century, had |> plans for the Jewish State to extend into what is Lebanon and into |> Transjordan (Jordan). I also read that it was the express wish of |> Ben-Gurion to not declare Israel's borders, when Israel was |> established, as this might restrict Israel's opportunities for |> later expansion. Israel often claims it right of existence on the |> fact that Jews lived there 2000 years ago or that God promised the |> land to them. But according to biblical sources, the area God |> promised would extend all the way to Iraq. And what were the |> borders in biblical times which Israel considers proper to use |> today ? Finally, if Israel wants peace, why can't it declare what |> it considers its legitimate and secure borders, which might be a |> base for negotiations? Having all the above facts in mind, one |> cannot blame Arab countries to fear Israeli expansionism, as a |> number of wars have proved (1948, 1956, 1967, 1982). I take issue with your assertions. I think that Arab countries do know that they have nothing to fear from ""Israeli expansionism"". Militarily, Israel is not capable of holding onto large tracts of land under occupation to a hostile, armed, and insurgent population for a sustained period of time. As is, the intifada is heavily taxing the Israeli economy. Proof of this can be seen in the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon. Israeli troops pulled back from the Awali, and later from the Litani, in order to control the minimal strip needed to keep towns out of range of Katyusha missile fire. Public opinion in Israel has turned towards settling the intifada via territorial concessions. The Israel public is sufferring from battle fatigue of sorts and the gov't is aware of it. With regards to borders, let me state the following. I may not agree with the manner in which negotiations are being held, however the crux of the matter is that everyone either makes or refrains from stating a starting position. The arab parties have called for total withdrawal and a return to pre-48 borders. If Israel were to state large borders, the negotiations might never get under way. If Israel were to state smaller borders, then the arab countries might try and force even smaller borders during the negotiations. I think that leaving the matter to be settled by negotiations and peace treaties is infinitely more realistic and sensible. |> Your answer to my third question is typical of a Stalinist public |> official. I don't think your answer is honest. You refer me to |> Vanunu's revelations about Israel's nuclear arsenal without |> evaluating the truthfullness of his revelations. Now if he said |> the truth, then why should he been punished, and if he lied, why |> should he be punished? I would appreciate more honesty. Your statement is typical of the simple minded naivety of a ""center for policy research"". Whether or not all of Vanunu's revelations were true has no bearing on the fact that some were. For disclosing ""state secrets"" after having signed contracts and forms with the understanding that said secrets are not to be made public, one should be punished. As to which were and which weren't, I am under no moral obligation to disclose that - quite the reverse in fact. He was taken to court, tried, and found guilty. You may take issue with a number of things but clearly you have no understanding of the concept of ""Secrets of state"", something which every democratic govt has. |> Somebody provided an answer to the fourth question, concerning |> 'hidden prisoners' in Israeli prisons. He posted an article from |> Ma'ariv documenting such cases. It seems that such prisoners do |> exist in Israel. What do you think about that ? I noticed that he was documenting the fact that such prisoners could exist more than he documented the fact that they do exist. The CLU noted, which you evidently did not pay attention to, that they know of no such reports or cases. I am sorry to tell you but in a country of 4 mill, as tightly knit as Israel, even if the matter of the arrest was not made public, within a relatively short time frame, most people would know about it. My own feelings are that the matter of the arrest should be made public unless a court order is issued allowing a delay of X hours. This would be granted only if a judge could be convinced that an announcement would cause irreparable harm to the ongoing investigation. |> You imply that my questions show bias and are formulated in such a |> way to 'cast aspersions upon Israel'. Such terms have often been |> used by the Soviet Union against dissidents: They call the Soviet |> Union into disrepute. If my questions are not disturbing, they |> would not call forth such hysterical answers. My questions are |> clearly provocative but they are meant to seek facts. I would be |> very happy if you could convince me that what I am told about |> Israel were just fabrications, but alas you have failed to do so. |> I suspect that you fear the truth and an open and honest |> discussion. This is a sign of weakness, not of strength. Well, I am sorry to say that your questions are slanted. Such questions are often termed ""tabloid journalism"" and are not disturbing because they avoid any attempt at objectivity. Such questions were often used during the McCarthy era as a basis for the witch-hunts that took place then. To use your own example, these questions might have been lifted from the format used by Stalinist prosecutors that were looking for small bits of evidence that they could distort and portray as a larger and dirtier picture. My answers were not any more ""hysterical"" than the questions themselves. The problem is not that the q's were provocative, it was that they were selective in their fact seeking. You fall into the same category of those who seek ""yes"" ""no"" answers when the real answer is ""of sorts"". I suspect that as long as the answers to these questions is not an unequivocal NO, you would remain unsatified and choose to interprete them as you see fit. A sign of strength is the ability to look You remind me of those mistaken environmentalists who once advocated culling wolves because of the cruelty to deer, only to find that they had broken the food chain and wreaked havoc upon the very environment they sought to protect. The color blindness you exhibit is a true sign of weakness. |> I hope you will muster the courage to seek the full truth. Ditto. -- Shai Guday | Stealth bombers, OS Software Engineer | Thinking Machines Corp. | the winged ninja of the skies. Cambridge, MA | ",17 "re: Vesa on the Speedstar 24 Just posting to John Cormack. I wanted to tell you that there is a ""slight"" difference between Speedstar 24 and Speedstar 24X /Stefan ",1 "Re: japanese moon landing? In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein) writes: >>A short story in the newspaper a few days ago made some sort of mention >>about how the Japanese, using what sounded like a gravity assist, had just >>managed to crash (or crash-land) a package on the moon. > >Their Hiten engineering-test mission spent a while in a highly eccentric >Earth orbit doing lunar flybys, and then was inserted into lunar orbit >using some very tricky gravity-assist-like maneuvering. This meant that >it would crash on the Moon eventually, since there is no such thing as >a stable lunar orbit (as far as anyone knows), and I believe I recall >hearing recently that it was about to happen. The gravity maneuvering that was used was to exploit 'fuzzy regions'. These are described by the inventor as exploiting the second-order perturbations in a three body system. The probe was launched into this region for the earth-moon-sun system, where the perturbations affected it in such a way as to allow it to go into lunar orbit without large expenditures of fuel to slow down. The idea is that 'natural objects sometimes get captured without expending fuel, we'll just find the trajectory that makes it possible"". The originator of the technique said that NASA wasn't interested, but that Japan was because their probe was small and couldn't hold a lot of fuel for deceleration. This from an issue of 'Science News' or 'The Planetary Report' I believe, about 2 months ago(?). Raymond L. Swartz Jr. (rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu) ================================================================================ I read the newspaper today and was amazed that, in 24 hours, five billion people could accomplish so little. ================================================================================ ",14 "Re: Clipper considered harmful In article bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes: >No, because the Feds will still be able to decrypt the conversations. >True, they'll blame the wrong guys, but nevertheless one cannot say >something like ""The drugs arrive tommorrow on the ship 'Terminus'"" >when the Feds are listening, even if they cannot identify who the >speaker is. It's not a question just of who is holding the phone. It's a question of what circuit to wiretap in the first place. If two drug dealers are both using stolen cellular phones, the FBI doesn't know which lines to tap -- unless of course they're tapping *all* phones (maybe *all* cellular phones). If they haven't tapped the connection (ie., at least one end of the connection) then they don't know what key to request. -- - <> - Carl Ellison cme@sw.stratus.com - Stratus Computer Inc. M3-2-BKW TEL: (508)460-2783 - 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298 FAX: (508)624-7488 ",11 "Arythmia I don't know if anyone knows about this topic: electrical heart failure. One of my friends has had to go to the doctor because he had chest pains. The Doc said it was Arythmia. So he had to go to a new york hospital for a lot of money to get treated. His doctors said that he could die from it, and the medication caused cancer ( that he was taking). Well, I suggested that he run, excersize and eat more, ( he is very skinny) but he says that has nothing to do with it. Does anyone know what causes arythmia and how it can be treated? Thanks ",13 "Gaza and separation from Israel From: Center for Policy Research Subject: Gaza and separation from Israel Gaza and the idea of separation The Israeli Left's inability to cope with the challenges it is presented with by reality becomes obvious at those moments when the reality does not line up with the expectations of the left. We were able to see this clearly during the Gulf War. Because of the Palestinian's popular solidarity with Iraq, Yossi Sarid - currently Minister of the Environment - made his infamous statement: ""You look for me !"", i.e., I'am not making any more efforts to speak with you. From Yossi Sarid's point of view, Palestinian reality during the Gulf War was not the lengthy curfew or the danger of hunger it brought with it, but whether or not the Palestinians accepted what was acceptable to the party. Similarly MERETZ, MK Deddi Tzuker, recently faced with criticism from residents of the West Bank town of Beit Sahour over his government's and his party's lack of action for human rights and peace, responded by asking those present at the discussion whether they would rather have a Likud government. From the Leftists' perspective this is the best government because it is THEIR government, regardless of what it does. These members of the Israeli Left have already decided how the future of the Occupied Territories will look, and they want to dictate to the Palestinians how to get there. An essential step towards this future is their participation in Yitzhak Rabin's government, and from their point of view the expulsions were a marginal byproduct of this ""government of peace"", which need not disturb the routine course of events. Likewise the ""Rabinic"" policies in Gaza - the blowing up of houses with anti-tank rockets and the significant increases in the number of persons injured in the suppression of demonstrations - need not disturb it. But the fact that reality is not as they would have it forces itself upon them when a mob in Gaza falls upon a settler who has lost his way, when a settler is stabbed by his Palestinian workers, or when a Palestinian knifes people in the streets of Tel Aviv. Then all hell breaks loose and the Israeli Left has nothing to propose except separation: Let's cut ourselves off from the Palestinians, let's build a fence so high that they won't be able to harm us - this is the cry of the Israeli Left. Let us erect a fence between us and the reality whith is the occupation. Meron Benvenisti writes about this in Ha'aretz (4-3-93): ""...The liberal Left. which does not differentiate between physical separation and 'the future of the territories', must come to understand that the regime of magnetic cards, exclusion of Arab workers, closure, and curfew are instruments of enforcement designed for the suppression of a population in revolt, and that their ideological support for separation only provides 'humanitarian' arguments for the legitimization of the . Enforced separation is carried out only to meet the need of the ruling community, but it is only the ruled population which bears its burden. [.....]. ""Whoover thinks that 'out of Gaza first' is a liberal, humanitarian idea had best contemplate the question of whether this position is also moral. It is very easy to shake off responsibility for this concentration of human suffering, and to thus also disregard responsibility for it's creation. It is very easy to erect a fence between Jewish and Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem, when this fence has a gate - the keys to which are at the disposal of one hand - which opens to allow the Jews to pursue all their interests, but is barred to the Arabs..."". ------------------------------------------------------ >From The OTHER Front, Jerusalem, 10 March 1993 ",17 "Re: Idle questions for fellow atheists In article <1993Apr5.124216.4374@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu writes: > >I wonder how many atheists out there care to speculate on the face of the world >if atheists were the majority rather than the minority group of the population. Probably we would have much the same problems with only a slight shift in emphasis. Weekends might not be so inviolate (more common to work 7 days a week in a business), and instead of American Atheists, we would have similar, religious organizations. A persons religious belief seems more as a crutch and justification for actions than a guide to determine actions. Of course, people would have to come up with more fascinating rationalizations for their actions, but that could be fun to watch... It seems to me, that for most people, religion in America doesn't matter that much. You have extreemists on both ends, but a large majority don't make too much of an issue about it as long as you don't. Now, admittedly, I have never had to suffer the ""Bible Belt"", but I am just north of it and see the fringes, and the reasonable people in most things tend to be reasonable in religion as well. >Also, how many atheists out there would actually take the stance and accor a >higher value to their way of thinking over the theistic way of thinking. The >typical selfish argument would be that both lines of thinking evolved from the >same inherent motivation, so one is not, intrinsically, different from the >other, qualitatively. But then again a measuring stick must be drawn >somewhere, and if we cannot assign value to a system of beliefs at its core, >than the only other alternative is to apply it to its periphery; ie, how it >expresses its own selfishness. > I don't bother according a higher value to my thinking, or just about anybodys thinking. I don't want to fall in that trap. Because if you do start that, then you are then to decide which is better, says whom, why, is there a best, and also what to do about those who have inferior modes of thinking. IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.) I'll argue it over a soda, but not over much more. Just my $.12 (What inflation has done...) M^2 ",0 "Re: Ax the ATF A few comments on the ATF's botched handling of this case: 1. Attempting to storm the compound in broad daylight? The explanation we were given (at least at one point) was that they thought the cult members would be at religious services. My only comment on this bit of idiocy is that if you're going to operate as a quasi-military unit, you'd better understand basic military tactics. One cardinal rule is that only a fool plans an operation where if one assumption is incorrect, the operation will fail disastrously. 2. We were told that ATF got four agents killed because they were outgunned, they didn't expect such heavy resistance. When questioned about why such an overwhelming military-style assault was planned, we were told that it was because the cultists were thought to be heavily armed. Can you say contradictory? I knew you could! 3. The BATF has had a bad reputation for years as a bunch of arrogant, hotdoggers. I was talking to relatives a couple of weeks ago and referred to them as a bunch of Crockett and Tubbs wannabes. I'm more than ever convinced that's right on target. An anecdote not related to the Waco fiasco is that apparently the BATF screwed up some of the evidence in the World Trade Center bombing. There's now an excellent chance some of the forensic evidence gathered by the FBI will not be admissible in court. This is not hearsay. I was told this by a relative of my wife's who happens to be an FBI agent. His opinion of the BATF was, ummm, well, let's just say uncomplimentary. 4. I have *still* not been presented with one iota of evidence that the BD's had *any* of the alleged illegal weaponry which was the reason for the raid in the first place. BTW, we're *still* hearing this justification. AG Reno, on CNN yesterday, made references to this issue, without any substantiation. She also waved around the ""He's a child abuser and we heard he was beating the children!"" flag. Sigh. 5. A point re the Feds in general: their handling of the whole siege reflected a complete lack of understanding of the probable thought processes of the cultists. AG Reno said they pushed the button because they were afraid a mass suicide was in the offing. My only comment on that is that if the cultists were that close to the edge, what the hell did she think their reaction would be to an hours-long assault on the compound where holes were punched in the walls and CS gas pumped in? If I were a BD, I'd expect the forces of the godless government to assault me at any time. In that light, whether they torched themselves or drank Jim Jones Kool-Aid is irrelevant. Also, look at how the siege was conducted: Bright lights, loud rock music, cutting off communications and other contact with the outside. All measures designed to make the BD's feel more and more isolated and threatened. This might have been a great strategy - if they were dealing with criminals. As it was, it looks to me like everything they did fed into Koresh's paranoid delusions. -- #include Dan S. ",16 "Re: A Kinder, Gentler BMW Mailing List joe@rider.cactus.org (Joe Senner) writes: >I know there's already a bmw mailing list, but since it's an R bike >only list (and limited to the R80* R100* bikes as well I believe) the list as chartered is geared toward R100/R80 GS/PD/ST riders, emphasizing the off road bikes, but there are numerous people on the list with other BMW twins as well, as well as the usual contingent of aspirants. most all boxer talk is welcome. the main list has about 50 subscribers; there is also a digest version which has about 10. we run about 10 to 12 messges to day, mostly technical with little chatter and no flames. subscriptions can be had via e-mail. in the text of a message, send the command: SUBSCRIBE to bmw-gs-request@halfdome.sf.ca.us for the main list and bmw-gs-digest-request@haldfome.sf.ca.us for the digest version. your ""from"" address will be used to determine where you will receive the mail. it would be a shame to split boxer riders between different lists unless, of course, the existing list failed to meet the readers' needs. -- -- bob pasker -- rbp@netcom.com -- ",8 "RE: == MOVING SALE === Reduced Prices! I have a list of things forsale on behalf of my brother, who's moving (moved already) Offer: 1) Black and Decker Duster Plus (Portable Hand Vaccum) purchased for $32, $12 2) SR-1000 Dual Cassette Portable Player, AM/FM 5-Band graphics Equalizer, high speed dubing, Duo Tape.Tape deck A, seems to have lost treble sound. But, I bet it's fixable. purchased for $80 $25 3)Monolux Zoom MicroScope, up to 1200X magnification Made in Japan, includes case and accessories purchased for $50 $20 4)Sunbeam 1400 Hair Dryer, the dryer you put your head under/into. You know, the ones you see in the salons. (Don't ask me why my bro had it) purchased for $60 $24 5)Everylast Speed Bag, all leather. Brand new, never used $10 6)Osterizer Pusle Matic Blender, with 10 speeds and a cookbook, 5 years old $10 purchased for $50 8)Binolux Binoculars . 7x35, extra wide angle 525ft. at 1000yds. with case. very new. $20 9)Proctor and Silex Spray,Steam and Dry Iron. very new. $10 Any questions, contact me thru e-mail and I will reply expeditously And always, S+H are not included, so please consider this. And lastly, I'm a very reasonable.Very Reasonable. Thanks, John ",6 "[lds] Thief goes to Paradise; Kermit goes off tangent Kermit Tensmeyer quoted from a few sources and then wrote something. I will attempt to construct a facsimile of what was previously said, and then address Kermit's offering. John Redelfs originally wrote... jr> I learned that a man cannot frustrate justice by repenting on his jr> death bed because repentance is more than a feeling of remorse. It jr> requires faith in Christ proven by following him, by keeping his jr> commandments. Such cannot be accomplished on ones deathbed. Tom Albrecht responded... ta> So Jesus must have lied to the thief on the cross. John Redelfs wrote back that... jr> Paradise and salvation are not the same thing. Salvation is better. jr> Refer to John 14:2. I responded to John that... rw> I don't see the effort to equate salvation with paradise. rw> rw> Rather, I see implied the fact that only those who are saved rw> may enter paradise. To which Kermit wrote... kt> Incomplete reference: kt> kt> See also the discussion: Did Jesus go into Hell in the BibleStudy group kt> for the arguments that Paradise and Hell(sheol) are places after death kt> The discussion (no LDS were involved as far as I could see) argued using kt> standard Christian argument from the Bible that pretty much support the kt> LDS position. kt> kt> Christ went to paridise after his death and burial. kt> kt> He taught the prisoners and freed them from Darkness. kt> kt> When he was resurrected, he had not yet ascended to his father. kt> kt> The arguement centered around what was or wasn't the proper biblical kt> terms for those places. I respond. The question that was raised was not if Jesus went to infernal Paradise before entering into heaven. No one has made a point for or against that issue, nor have they compared the LDS position against orthodox belief. The infernal paradise is held to be Abraham's bosom (Luke 16), the place of the righteous dead in sheol (equivalent to hades). The point that was raised by John was that someone could not repent on their death bed. Tom Albrecht pointed to a Biblical example that was contradictory to what John's position put forward. The thief on the cross was promised by Christ to be with Him in Paradise, the abode of the righteous dead. John's position possibly needs to be reworked. Kermit needs to address the topic at hand. ============================= Robert Weiss psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu ",19 "exhaust coating since at least one other person was interested in this: my FZR's black exhaust pipes are rusty and i researched getting them repaired. yesterday i bought a can of VHT 1500 degree black header paint and spent an hour sanding two of the header pipes by hand. sprayed on paint. thought about how clean i was able to get the metal with sanding and determined that i wouldn't be at all suprised if the paint wore/chipped off in a month. soooo call a couple of places up in minneapolis and discover that powder coating, while extremely durable, will not handle over ~600 degree temperatures. the place i talked to said they were experimenting with some new powder that is supposed to handle 1100 degrees but that it wouldn't be available for months at least. they directed me to another shop that specializes in header coating. the other shop said they have 2 coatings available. one is aluminized that can do 1200+ degrees and is ""comparable"" to powder coating for durability. the other is silicon (i think) based and can do 1800+ degrees (!) but is thinner and not as durable. both coatings have a textured finish (not super smooth) and should be cleaned with hot water and a brush. price for 4 1-foot header pipes and a 2-foot 4-2-1 collector was ~$100. i'm planning to take the parts up friday and get them back (UPS) next week maybe wednesday. sounds to me like this kind of coating stuff should be way better than paint considering how much abuse the pipes get from road crap/rocks. axel ",8 "Claris Filemaker for Mac Claris Filemaker Pro Database Manager for MacIntosh, still unpackaged. $150 or best offer. Please call (415) 824 6209; ***DO NOT*** respond to this account. ",6 "What does Jeff King suck (t)? (was Second guessing the Pirates) Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com writes: >I'm still hoping for a .500 season from the Bucs but >I really wished they would have coughed up the $$$ to >keep Doug around. Actually, I was hoping for Barry Bonds. Oh well. >P.S. Jeff King *still* sucks. Check this out (from the >latest McWeekly): > > BA SLG OBP HR RBI > Jeff King .234 .277 .357 0 4 > Jose Lind .323 .484 .344 0 5 First off, Jeff has had like 5 hits in the last two games, and walked *yet again*. Sorry Ken, but Jeff King does have some power, which means his SLG won't be below .300, and his walks are *way* up. If that increase is real, Jeff King will be an above average NL third baseman in 1993. Jose Lind, on the other hand, *still* doesn't walk, and clearly isn't a .320 hitter. My bet is that he won't be getting any extra bases either once everybody starts pulling the ""Lind Shift"" we were seeing in the NL. >Any predictions as to when he is sent to Buffalo or released outright? No, although since the Lavalliere weirdness, nothing would really surprise me. Jeff King is currently in the top 10 in the league in *walks*. Something is up... jking ",9 "Re: XV problems In article <1rohjc$avt@cc.tut.fi>, jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana) writes: >In article <1993Apr27.143603.9351@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> >C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk writes: >> [moved on a bit] >I wrote something about making color modifications quickly >with 8bit quantized images and only at the saving the image to file >process we have to make the modifications to the 24bit image. >This makes sense, because the main use of XV is only viewing images. > >Doing many changes to image, we should keep all modifications >in a buffer; and then before making the operations to 24bit image, >we should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations. > Think about what you are saying here. The 24 bit image is quantised down to 8 bits so many 'similar' colours are mapped onto a single palette colour. This colour gets modified in fairly arbitrary ways. You then want to apply these modifications back to the 24 bit file, so you have to find which colours mapped to this one palette colour. Ok you could do this by copying the 24 bit file to a 32 bit file and using the extra 8 bits to hold the index entry. Having done this, you need to do something to them ... what, exactly? Apply the difference in RGB between the original and modified palette entry to each colour in the group? This could generate colours with RGB outside the range 0...255. It would also lead to discontinuities when different parts of a smooth colour gradient mapped to several different palette entries. You could interpolate from full modification to no modification depending how far each colour was from the palette entry. However I suspect this would look rather odd. So in summary, what I said in my previous posting still holds: >>How would you suggest doing colour editing on a 24 bit file? How >>would you group 'related' colours to edit them together? Only global >>changes could be done unless the software were very different and >>much more complicated. >>If you want to do colour editing on a 24 bit image, you need much >>more powerfull software - which is readily available commercially. In other words, to edit a 24 bit file you need software built for the job. Tacking mods onto xv is going to create more problems than it solves. As to the other bits - you seemed to be claiming that there were bugs in XV. If that was not what you meant, then: >(You propably misunderstood what I wrote as you have done in many >places so far.) Yes, I probably did. I found that the collected digest format of your posting made it a little difficult to understand precisely what your point was. Sorry if I misunderstood. >You also missed what is (were) wrong with XV. However, I did wrote it. Yes again. What *is* (was?) wrong with xv? -- Chris Lilley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, Manchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk Voice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",1 "Re: Performa or LC??? demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes: > Performa 200 == Classic II > Performa 400 == LC II Performa 405 = LCII 4/80 with Monitor, modem and software. Performa 430 = LCII 4/120 w/ Monitor, modem and software. > Performa 4xx == LC III Performa 450 = LCIII with Monitor, modem and software. Do we detect a trend here people... > The Performas are made to be low-cost business solutions. The 4xx have >bundled software, modems, etc. The Performas are made to be low-cost, widely distributed (sold at Sears) home machines, not business machines. They were developed to compete with the retail outlet home computer market. > Because they have no ""retail price"" you might be able to get a steeper >discount on them. Shop around. Sears is probably going to have the best price around, most of the time, based on the number they can purchase and stuff like that. > As far as the monitors go, buy 3rd party. Much cheaper. Not really. The newer Peformas (405, 430, 450) come with what is really a third party monitor that Apple has put their name on and called it the Performa Plus display. Essentially it is a VGA monitor, quite cheap. -Hades ",4 "Re: California Insurance Commissioner Endorses Federal Legislation to Protect Consumers from Scam Insurance Companies johne@vcd.hp.com (John Eaton) writes: >Nigel Allen (ndallen@r-node.hub.org) wrote: >: Here is a press release from the California Department of Insurance. >: >: California Insurance Commissioner Endorses Federal Legislation to >: Protect Consumers from Scam Insurance Companies >---------------- >I may be a little dense but I would have thought that protecting consumers >from scam insurance companies would be the prime objective of something >called the Cal insurance Commission. If they aren't accomplishing that now >then why do we need them? Very simple. An 'Insurance Commissioner' is a bureaucrat - a regulator. It is his/her duties to make rules to enforce laws. He/she cannot make laws. If there is no law that covers a specific subject, say scam insurance companies, a regulator cannot create one. So they have to go to a proper legislative body to get such a law enacted. For the California Insurance Commissioner, there are two possible legislative bodies: the California State Legislature and the U.S. Congress. We all know how little the California State Legislature accomplishes, esp. along the lines of insurance reform legislation (negative movement). So Garamendi wants the feds to do it, because: (a) he has a better chance of getting a federal law through, and (b) since many of the scam companies work across state lines/national borders, it is better to have a law that reach out into other jurisdictions. >John Eaton >!hp-vcd!johne ",18 "Re: Krillean Photography In article , Alexander P. Zijdenbos writes... > > I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to > so-called ""paranormal"" stuff; but as far as I'm concerned, it is just > as likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be > quite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis. But no one (or at least, not many people) are trying to pass off God as a scientific fact. Not so with Kirlian photography. I'll admit that it is possible that some superior intelligence exists elsewhere, and if people want to label that intelligence ""God"", I'm not going to stop them. Anyway, let's _not_ turn this into a theological debate. ;-) > I am convinced that it is a serious mistake to close your mind to > something, ANYTHING, simply because it doesn't fit your current frame > of reference. History shows that many great people, great scientists, > were people who kept an open mind - and were ridiculed by sceptics. Read alt.fan.robert.mcelwaine sometime. I've never been so closed-minded before subscribing to that group. :) -- Brian Tao:: taob@r-node.hub.org (r-Node BBS, 416-249-5366, FREE!) ::::::::::: 90taobri@wave.scar.utoronto.ca (University of Toronto) ",13 "Re: Good Reasons to Wave at each other jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (The Angel Levine) writes: >Has anyone, while driving a cage, ever waved at bikers? I get the urge, >but I've never actually done it. No, but I've driven my cage to the bike park, thinking I was riding the bike.... ",8 "Viewsonic 17 experience sought I'd appreciate if you can email or post you positive or negative experience with this monitor, especially compared to to Nanao 550i. I'd summarize if I got multiple responses. Thanks. -- -kin Kin Cho (kin@isi.com) Voice(408) 980-1500 ext. 230 Integrated Systems Inc. Fax (408) 980-0400 ",2 "Re: phone number of wycliffe translators UK > I'm concerned about a recent posting about WBT/SIL. I thought they'd >pretty much been denounced as a right-wing organization involved in >ideological manipulation and cultural interference, including Vietnam >and South America. A commission from Mexican Academia denounced them in >1979 as "" a covert political and ideological institution used by the >U.S. govt as an instrument of control, regulation, penetration, espionage and >repression."" > My concern is that this group may be seen as acceptable and even >praiseworthy by readers of soc.religion.christian. It's important that >Christians don't immediately accept every ""Christian"" organization as >automatically above reproach. > > mp Good heavens, you mean my good friend Wes Collins, who took his wife and two small children into the jungles of Guatemala, despite dangers from primitive conditions and armed guerillas, so that the indigenous people groups their could have the Bible in their native languages--the young man who led Bible studies in our church, who daily demonstrated and declared his deep abiding faith in the Lord of Love--you mean he really was a sneaky imperialistic *SPY* whose _real_ reason for going was to exploit and oppress the ignorant and unsuspecting masses? Imagine my surprise! I never would have thought it of him. How was this terrible deceit discovered? What exactly was the ""cultural interference"" they were caught committing? Attempting to persuade the locals that their ancestral gods were false gods, and their sacrifices (including human sacrifices in some cases) were vain? Destroying traditional lifestyles by introducing steel tools, medical vaccines, and durable clothes? Oh and by the way, who did the denouncing? I am terribly shocked to hear that my friend Wes, who seemed so nice, was really such a deceitful tool of the devil. Please provide me with specific documentation on this charge. There is some risk that I may not believe it otherwise. - Mark ",15 "How Can I Download Files/Graphics? How can I find these files and graphics that people are downloading from their Unix systems? Then, how do I download them? I am a complete beginner in this (obviously), so please baby-step me through the process. First of all, I don't see amongst these newsgroups where there is anything remotely like a GIF, TIF, or compiled shareware program? Thanks in advance for any information you can give me. (I know there is a Unix command, ""ftp,"" that will allow me to do this, but first I need to know where to go to find the file I want download via ftp, etc. Thomas Helke egret@wet.UUCP // ::wq! / ",1 "Re: Please help an Amiga user find comfort in Windows In article <1t9ada$og0@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU> stlombo@eos.acm.rpi.edu (Steve J. Lombardi) writes: >By night I'm an Amiga user. By day I work with windows. I'd be much more >comfortable in windows if I had Two things. > >1. A good Personal information manager. You know- a calendar, address book, >reminder list etc... rolled into one clean interface. I prefer InfoSelect myself, but it is a strange kind of PIM. >2. A good file manager. Microsofts is very poor by my standards. How >about one that has a left and right window and allows file operations >between them. being able to launch programs from the same interface >would be nice. as well as text reading and graphics viewing. Those >who are familiar with Directory Opus on the Amiga know what I'm >looking for. Well, a few things might help you like the 3.1 File Manager better. 1) To get more than one window simply double click on a drive icon. That it only gives you one window to work with is a fallacy. You can drag files between windows, to any icon on the tree on the left side of the window, and to any drive icon. This beats your ""left and right window"" as you can have as many open as you wish instead of just two. 2) You can launch any app from within File Manager by double clicking on the executable's icon. 3) You can launch any application and open a document file by double clicking on the document file's icon, provided you have associations set correctly. This is easily done with the menus. The ""browse"" capability adds a lot of functionality to 3.1. So if you name all your text files with .txt and point all GIF, TIFF, etc. files towards Paintshop or WinGIF, this takes care of your requirement for ""text reading and graphics viewing"". I know someone who prefers using File Manager as his shell. Setting up all the associations you need is the way to do it. If Directory Opus is half as good as File Manager then it must be pretty good indeed! File Manager just needs you to understand how some things are done. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS ! ",2 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies In a previous article, xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu () says: >Is it possible to do a ""wheelie"" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive? > Absolutely. Early XS1100's were VERY good at this. >Mike Terry >'82 Virago > Don't try it on your Virago unless you already are purty good at it or like the smell of exploded clutch. -- Go fast. Take chances. Mike S. ",8 "Re: Windows for WorkGroups and LAN Workplace Flint.Waters@uwyo.edu (Flint Waters) writes: >>Now does anyone know if it is possible to use W4WG and Lan Workplace >>for DOS at the same time. >Yup. We're using both and they work just fine. Hopefully, someday WFWG >will communicate over LWP TCPIP. Right now we have to load NetBeui. >I use ODI with ODINSUP and all works well. Hey, sounds great. Does that mean that W4WG works with ODI? I thought it uses NDIS. My problem is that Lan Workplace with all its drivers uses up most of my UMBs, so I'd hate to have to load many more drivers to make W4WG work along. I read in a German computer magazine that TCP/IP support for W4WG is just around the corner. Anybody have any news about this? Regards, Richard PS: I possibly caused a dupe with this message. If this message was spread twice outside of Munich, please send me a short note. It would help me debug my news application. -- +----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ | Dr. Richard Spitz | INTERNET: spitz@ana.med.uni-muenchen.de | | EDV-Gruppe Anaesthesie | Tel : +49-89-7095-3421 | | Klinikum Grosshadern | FAX : +49-89-7095-8886 | | Munich, Germany | | +----------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ ",2 "Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. tfv0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Theodore F. Vaida ][) writes: >In article , gfk39017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George F. Krumins) writes: >[deleted] >>To say that ""visible light astronomy is already a dying field"" is >>pure hokum. To use the ""logic"" that things are already bad, so it doesn't >>matter if it gets worse is absurd. Maybe common sense and logic >>are the dying fields. >>-- >[deleted] >Ok, so those scientists can get around the atmosphere with fancy >computer algorythims, but have you looked ad the Hubble results, the >defects of the mirror are partially correctable with software (see >those jupiter pictures for results), but is the effects are completely >reversable, why is there going to be a shuttle mission to fix it? >[deleted] The main effect of the spherical aberration problems with the primary mirror was to drive the computer engineers to develop the image processing software that much faster. When they use the _same_ deconvolution software on the images from the fixed Hubble, be ready for some incredible results! There is every reason to believe that the results will _exceed_ the original specs by a fair margin. Adaptive optics is a combination of hardware and software. It works realtime, not after the fact, as is the case with Hubble. You might be interested to know this technology has made it to the amateur market, in the form of the AO-2 Adaptive Optics System. Starting on page 52 of the April, 1993 Sky & Telescope is a three page review of this new product. It lists for $1,290. The article states: ""The AO-2 Adaptive Optics System comes in a handy soft-plastic case that a three-year-old could carry around."" Even though this device is really only good for the brightest objects, ""it could cope with image movements of up to 0.8 millimeter in the telescope's focal plane."" Now just imagine how well this infant technology will do in a few years, especially in a dedicated system that has hundreds of thousands of dollars, and many man-hours invested in its development. George Krumins -- Pufferfish Observatory |^^^^^\^^^^| The Universe had its origin gfk39017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ^^^/\ \^^^ in two hockeysticks colliding / /\ \ ""Home of the Hockeystick /_/ \_\ Memorial Telescope"" ",14 "They're real and they're spectacular ""They're real and they're spectacular"", the Blues shutout the Blackhawks in consecutive playoff games. If the Blues sweep the Hawks on Sunday, I will launch a broom onto the ice in the last seconds of the game. ""Not that there's anything wrong with that."" Curtis Joseph has been the ""master of his own domain"", and the Hawks have been shooting the puck like a bunch of ""chuckers"". Not even ""Superman"" could play any better in goal. Joseph must have been eating his ""cereal."" ""It's like a sauna in here"" said a spectator about the hot atmosphere and the wild crowd at the Arena. It was ""very refreshing"" to see the Blues ""double-dip"" the Hawks. The Hawks goons tried to ""pick"" on Hull, Janney, and Joseph but the Blues checking line ""nipped"" those Hawks real well. The fat ""Yoyoma"" will sing on Sunday, and the Hawks will head to the ""beach"". The Hawks' trip back to Chicago will feel like a long ""journey from Milan to Minsk"" Enjoy Sunday's game with some Junior Mints and wash them down with a Snapple. Just a little fun. %*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* * __ ______________ ____________________________________ % % \ \_)____________/ A L L E Z L E S B L U E S ! ! ! * * \ __________/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ % % \ ________/ * * \ _______/ Joe Ashkar % % \ \ Contact for the Blues * * \ \ SAINT LOUIS jca2@cec1.wustl.edu % % (___) BLUES * *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% ",10 "Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics In article madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes: > >""Clam"" Bake Timmons = Bill ""Shit Stirrer Connor"" > Sorry, gotta disagree with you on this one Maddi (not the resemblence to Bill. The nickname). I prefer ""Half"" Bake'd Timmons /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away, and sank Manhattan out at sea. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ",0 "Re: the usual In article viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes: >>Yes, I am pro-gun, and yes, I do disagree with this statement. >>Nuclear weapons in and of themselves are dangerous. Radioactive >>decay of plutonium and uranium, as well as the tritium in the >>weapon, tends to be somewhat dangerous to living things. >>(Can you say ""neutron flux""?) > Can you say, ""I get more background radiation from living in >Denver or having an office in a limestone building than I do standing >next to a power reactor at full power or standing next to a nuclear >warhead that is armed?"" Look up ""shielding"" in your dictionary. You >don't need six feet of lead to make decent shielding; your dead skin >cell layer does an excellent job on alpha particles, and neutrons >are slowed by mere *water*. What do you think 75% of you is? But whatever the neutrons hit has a good chance of absorbing the neutron and becoming radioactive itself. Mostly, that means water turning into (harmless) heavy water. But some neutrons would also hit bones, and the resulting harmfull, secondard radioactives would remain in the body for decades. I think an unshielded nuclear warhead could reasonably be considered a public health hazard. As for a shielded warhead, I think a fair amount of maintaince is required for it to remain safely shielded (e.g. storage in a dry, temperature-regulated facility, etc...) For private ownership to be unregulated, I think a single individual must be able not only to keep the weapon, but keep it in a safe condition. If any random private citizen could not properly keep, maintain and store a nuclear weapon, then some regulation is clearly appropriate. >> Plus these things have no self- >>defense purposes. It's kinda hard to justify their use as >>a militia weapon when at best they are meant for battlefield use >>(low-yield weapons) or at worst for industrial target obliteration >>(translation: cities and population centers). > If the militia has as its job the overthrow of an illegal >government, they are indeed useful weapons to the militia. I disagree with this purpose: The job of the militia is to defend themselves and their community. If you look at the American revolution as an example, the militias won by seperating themselves from, and becoming independent of, a repressive government. They didn't overthrow it, and those communities (Canada and England, for example) that didn't defend themselves were still under that same old regime. If the role of the militia were offensive, to go out and destroy repressive governments, nuclear weapons _might_ be appropriate. But their jobs is defensive, and nuclear weapons aren't suited for that. There is also the question of personal and collective arms: The Second Amendment definately protects ownership of personal weapons (since the very nature of the militia requires members to provide their own arms.) But it isn't clear if it covers other arms. Certainly, not all members would supply (for example) a tank, only a few could or (if they were to be used effectively) should. However, those providing the heavy weapons have a disproportionate control over the militia and its fierpower. The militias, as the framers envisioned them, were extremely democratic: If only 50% of the members supported the cause, only 50% would respond to a muster, and the militia's firepower would be proportionately reduced. Militia firepower and the popular will were, therefore, linked. But if a small minority of the members supplied a large fraction of the firepower (in the form of heavy weapons) this would all change: The militia's firepower would depend on the will of a small minority, not of the general public. Worse, that minority would be quite different from the general public (at the very least, they would be much richer.) As a result, I think the nature and character of the militia requires that each member provide a roughly equal share of the militia's firepower: His personal weapons, and some equitable fraction of a squad's heavier firepower. Frank Crary CU Boulder ",16 "Re: MGBs and the real world In article <1qlg02$iu6@uniwa.uwa.oz.au> scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher) writes: >Have you driven a TURBO converted >MX5? Now they are starting to perform! I've often thought a Mazda rotary >would go well in the XM5 too....anyone done it? no, but somebody's dropped a ford 302 V-8 into the miata, somewhat reminiscent of the shelby cobra. the car's obviously not as nimble as before, but it's supposed to have a near 50/50 weight distribution and handle very well. i'd sure love to drive one. -teddy ",7 "Re: Maybe????? : [I have some qualms about postings like this. You might want to : engage in a bit more conversation with Joel before deluging : someone who doesn't expect it with cards. --clh] I'd suggest that more than _some_ qualms are in order. Without knowing anything about the situation, it is impossible to evaluate the appropriateness of writing. Some folks will check, others with more zeal than time may not. IMHO, requests of this nature should be made only for oneself or for someone who knows and approves of the idea. Otherwise, it is intrusive and disrespectful of the individual. revdak@netcom.com ",15 "Q: Whats _vendorShellWidgetClass ? We tried to compile an old X11R4/Motif program with X115 and a newer Version of Motif. But we newer succeed. Any ideas? CC -o xtrack.new main.o libxtrack.a ../xutils/libxutils.a ../pmshort/libpmshort.a ../matrix/libmatrix.a otte/lib_otte.a verb/lib_verb.a /tools/newmotif/lib/libMrm.a /tools/newmotif/lib/libXm.a -L/tools/X11R5/lib -lXaw -lXmu -lXt -lX11 -lL -lm -lXext cXm.a -lXaw -lXmu -lXt -lX11 -lL -lm -lXext -L/usr/CC/sun4/ -lC ld: /tools/X11R5/lib/libXaw.sa.5.0(sharedlib.o): _vendorShellWidgetClass: multiply defined *** Error code 2 make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `xtrack' Thanks FvD. -- FvD, Markus Weber fvd@ma1ws1.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de Sometimes there's nothing to feel. ",5 "Re: WBT (WAS: Re: phone number of wycliffe translators UK) poram%mlsma@att.att.com wrote: : Having met Peter Kingston (of WBT) some years back, he struck me : as an exemplery and dedicated Christian whose main concern was with : translation of the Word of God and the welfare of the people : group he was serving. : WBT literature is concerned mainly with providing Scripture : in minority languages. Yes, in fact Peter is now at Wycliffe HQ in the U.K., and is a member of my church. I would fully endorse the above -- Peter is a very Godly man, with a passion for serving Christ. On one occasion he specifically addressed the issue of ``cultural interference'' in a sermon, presumably from his experience of allegations directed at Wycliffe. (Perhaps I could find the tape...?) -- Michael Davis (cs89mcd@brunel.ac.uk) ",15 "Re: Braves Offense In article <1993Apr23.010423.11050@news.acns.nwu.edu> rsavage@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Bornhorst) writes: > > > >I've been a Braves fan for as long as I've been watching baseball (almost 12 >years now.) I say that just tp preface what I'm about to post. > >This Braves team is made up of slow starters. People are amazed that the >Braves aren't hitting. Don't be. They weren't hitting last year at this >time, nor were they the year before. They had slow Aprils and Mays in the >1991 and 1992 seasons, and yet they still managed to go to the Series in >those years. Well, this team is no different, so why should we be suprised >at their slow start? They started that way for the past two years, and >they'll be that way until the Richmond club makes it to the majors. Judge >their offense in June or July when things start to average out. I'm just >happy that the Reds have gotten off to such a poor start. The Giants always >do well in the early part of the season, but they'll be out of the race by >July (just like the last few years). Unless Bond's developes a knuckelball, >their staff will get rocked by mid-June. Wow! You really know how to hurt a guy. Guess I shouldn't bother watching any more games. It's already been decided. :^) luigi -- Randy Palermo luigi@csd.sgi.com Fax: (415)961-6502 Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039 ""Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"" ",9 "Re: Morality? (was Re: >So, you are saying that it isn't possible for an instinctive act >>to be moral one? >I like to think that many things are possible. Explain to me >how instinctive acts can be moral acts, and I am happy to listen. For example, if it were instinctive not to murder... >>That is, in order for an act to be an act of morality, >>the person must consider the immoral action but then disregard >>it? >Weaker than that. There must be the possibility that the >organism - it's not just people we are talking about - can >consider alternatives. So, only intelligent beings can be moral, even if the bahavior of other beings mimics theirs? And, how much emphasis do you place on intelligence? Animals of the same species could kill each other arbitarily, but they don't. Are you trying to say that this isn't an act of morality because most animals aren't intelligent enough to think like we do? keith ",0 "Drafting Machine for sale For sale: Precision drafting machine, Bruning OGP-0180. Solid older model with spring-loaded counter balance; clamps on table. Without scales. For right handed person. $60/make offer, includes UPS/parcel post postage. I'm guessing that it's from the 1940s or 1950s, a period well known for excellent drafting machine construction! :-) It's built with real metal parts, not cheap modern plastic, and it's painted the typical office grey popular in that period. It's smooth working, and each of the two ""arms"" on it measures roughly 24"". It has a dual clamp to enable you to clamp it on the edge or corner of a table. --- Rick Inzero rochester!cci632!rdi Northern Telecom, LTD uunet!ccicpg!cci632!rdi Rochester, NY rdi@cci.com ",6 "MICROPHONE PRE-AMP/LOW NOISE/PHANTOM POWERED I'm looking to build a microphone preamp that has very good low-noise characteristics, large clean gain, and incorportates phantom power (20-48 volts (dc)) for a PZM microphone. I'm leaning towards a good, low-cost (??) instrumentation amplifier to maintain the balanced input from the microphone, for its good CMRR, internal compensation, and because i can use a minimal # of parts. Does anyone out there have any experience, suggestions, advice, etc...that they'd like to pass on, I'd greatly appreciate it. --- A l a n M a c a l u s o PURPLE MOON GIANTS ali@cns.nyu.edu 158 E. 7th. St. #B5 (212) 998-7837 NYC 10009 (212) 982-6630 ",12 "Re: homosexual issues in Christianity In response to alleged circular reasoning concerning the morality of homosexuality, clh poses the following challenge: >In order to break the circle there's got to be some other >reason to think homosexuality is wrong. I answer, The circle is simple to break. The Church teaches that homosexual behavior is immoral. This teaching is raw, impassionate, unassailable dogma. That closes the argument for me. -- Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock Catechist gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu [Right. I understand that people have other reasons for not accepting homosexuality. The point I was making was that the specific argument given wouldn't stand on its own. --clh] ",15 "Re: Who is Henry Spencer anyway? In article <1993May15.014554.2850@aie.nl> hansk@aie.nl (Hans Kinwel) writes: >My god! You dare posting! I posed these very questions to Mr Spencer >some time ago by email. Unfortunately I never received any response. Apologies... Your mail is probably in the pile that arrived just before I got sick about a month ago... A reply will appear eventually... >Now, what I really would like to see is an interview with Mr Spencer. A >magazine (photograph!), or even better a tv program. (No! I want both!) So far, there have been none (unless you count an interview in The Amateur Computerist about the history of netnews, which may be disqualified because TAC's budget doesn't run to reproducing photos...). -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article rjk@world.std.com (Robert J. Kolker) writes: > >So if it was illegal guns, the ATF should have gotten a normal warrant >(how can you flush a 50 calibre machine gun down the toilet?) and >presented it in a peaceful normal way. David Koresh has had brushes with >the law, even standing trial for attempted murder in which he was >acquitted. In every prior brush with the law, Koresh and his people acted >peacibly. There was no prior action on the part of the BD folks to >indicate that they were any danger to society. > >Look and learn folks. And be VERY afraid. > >Conan the Libertarian > > >-- >""If you can't love the Constitution, then at least hate the Government"" > In addition, it is ridiculous for this Hicks guy from the FBI saying that they were just trying to bring them before the bar to face justice, when who should really be on trial is every officer involved in the brainless BATF assault. Granted, it would be tough to convict when the bodies were inside, but if you're going to talk about justice then you have to consider the gross incompetence and disregard for human life displayed by the ATF. Charge 'em and try 'em! Mark A. Skala ""Anything worth doing is vwp@cbnewsk.att.com worth doing to excess."" ",19 "Re: Maxtor 2190 info needed (was Re: UNIX PC Software for sale) In <1993Apr22.001940.12709@d-and-d.com> dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) writes: >In article <79954@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >>In article >>colinm@max.carleton.ca (Colin McFadyen) writes: >> >>| Does anyone know what the jumpers should be set to on the Maxtor 2190?? >>| I have a 2190 that came off of a VS2000 that I would like to use on a PC. >> > [ ... Useful info about the Maxtor drive deleted ... ] >>Since the 3B1 ""normally"" has only one HD, you would jumper betwwwn ""C1"" to >>select the first (possible) drive address; if the 2190 is your second drive >>on the 3B1, then jumper between ""2C"". > However, Thad, you should note that he said that he would like to >use it on a 'PC', not 'UNIX-PC'. Also note the strange cross-posting (as he >probably did not), so it is not sure exactly what sort of machine he intends >to mount it on. If it *is* a PC (or clone), then the ""2C"" jumper would be >the correct choice. > I've left the cross-posting in effect, since I'm not sure which >newsgroup he would really be reading this in. :-) Sorry for any confusion I may have created. The disk did come out of a VS2000 and I would like to use it in a IBM PC clone. The reason that I posted to comp.sys.3b1 was because I saw the drive (XT2190) mentioned in a for-slae notice. I had asked for info before but didn't receive any replies. Thanks once again for the help. Colin. ",6 "Re: DayStar again ... In article Bill Johnston, johnston@me.udel.edu writes: > >I'm going to buy a DayStar 68040 with 25 MHz for the SE/30. Since there > >were so many mails about problems with this board, my questions: > >does the board work with 7.1 and A/UX 3.0 ? Does anybody know problems > >with any kind of software ? > > Well, I haven't seen any reports of problems with the Turbo '040, > but to my knowledge, Daystar has not released a version of the > board that works with anything but the IIsi and IIci, and they > have not finished tweaking/testing for use with A/UX. This may > not happen until the A/UX 3.0.2 upgrade is released (my guess) so > I'd recommend waiting or buying the 50 MHz '030 board and upgrade > later when A/UX compatibility is assured. Turbo '040 interface > cards for the II, IIx, SE/30, IIcx, etc will probably be available > sooner, but if A/UX compatibility is a requirement, it is probably > best to be patient and let someone else be the pioneer. ;-) An added advantate of waiting for the DayStar for the SE/30 is that, just as with the '030 power cache, the '040 accelerator will plug into the CPU socket, leaving the PDS slot free for a video card or ethernet card. With DayStar's upgrade path, it's a no lose situation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earl D. Fife | Department of Mathematics fife@calvin.edu | Calvin College (616)957-6403 | Grand Rapids, MI 49546 ========================================================================= ",4 "Emergency Brake on Opel (was: '86 Nissan Maxima) Since we're on the subject of brakes.... does anyone know why a 4WD Vauxhall/ Opel disengages drive to the rear wheels when the brakes are applied? Vauxhall boast about how the car is more stable in fwd mode during braking than in 4wd mode.... how is this so? ...Shaz... ",7 "Re: Islam And Scientific Predictions (was Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism) In article <1993Apr17.122329.21438@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes: >>>""AND IT IS HE (GOD ALMIGHTY) WHO CREATED THE NIGHT AND THE >>>DAY, AND THE SUN AND THE EARTH: ALL (THE CELETIAL BODIES) >>>SWIM ALONG, EACH IN ITS ROUNDED COURSE."" (Holy Quran 21:33) > >>Hmm. This agrees with the Ptolemic system of the earth at the centre, >>with the planets orbitting round it. So Copernicus and Gallileo were >>wrong after all! > >You haven't read very carefully -- if you look again, you will see that >it doesn't say anything about what is circling what. > Anyway, they are not moving in circles. Nor is there any evidence that everything goes around in a rounded course in a general sense. Wishy- washy statements are not scientific. Benedikt ",0 "Looking for converters for xpm I am looking for utilities for converting GIFs/JPEGs/PS etc to xpm format? Any information appreciated. Thanks, Michael Linehan. ",5 "Re: That silly outdated Bill (was Re: Koresh and Miranda) scottj@magic.dml.georgetown.edu (John L. Scott) writes: : The issue has never been whether tanks were used in Detroit in 1967. It : has been whether they fired their main guns. Never? This is incorrect. Either you don't read very well or resort to falsehoods in an attempt to make a point. At the risk of boring and belaboring the point, my claim was the chain was regarding the tanks ""last used in Detroit in 48"". The text follows. : You did not merely claim that : tanks were used--you claimed that they fired their main guns to suppress : sniper fire and that they were ""quite"" effective at this. Indeed, when Coffman claimed they were only used as APCs, I did say I had been told they did fire their main guns. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : You continue to : back away from this claim and defend something else that nobody is : disputing. Well, the poster who I responded to did dispute the use of tanks post-48. Rude of you to call Gary Coffman a nobody. : ""Well, it's not the main gun."" Gee, that's only the entire point. Are you : now going to admit that you were wrong? That was the entire point to *you*. What exactly did I claim? -------------------------------------------------- ""I've heard eye-witness descriptions of tanks using their main guns to respond to sniper fire. Quite effectively."" -------------------------------------------------- I wasn't wrong . . . I've heard those descriptions. If you're paying attention, I've mentioned that I saw the tanks with my own eyes, but the main gun firing was an account I heard. That helps people judge whether or not to kick in the, to use your words, ""bullshit filters"". Stating that I *claimed* this is a falsehood. What was it I claimed as fact? Here's the entire post: -------------------------------------------------- >We haven't used tanks against the black ghettos since Detroit 1948. Correction. I know they used tanks in Detroit 1968. I saw em, it was well covered in the news at that time. Gordon Lightfoot mentions it in his song ""Black Day in July"". -------------------------------------------------- Since you don't dispute that and claim that nobody else does, that means I was right. : I will never read of tanks firing their main guns in Detroit in the '67 : riots. There is simply no way that such an event could have taken place : without it being common knowledge even 26 years later. The American : military firing shells from tanks in American cities on blacks would have : been *big* news. So one would suppose. Some folks think in happened in 48. Awesley goes on: You can also read of the troops using grenade launchers. : To fire fragmentary grenades? I doubt that as well. To fire concussion : grenades? Perhaps. To fire tear gas? Certainly. But you would be : perfectly willing to let us believe they fired frags, wouldn't you, since : it makes your other claim seem more plausible. John, again, strawman techniques. Do you feel you're losing it so you have to stretch what I said and knock that down? What I read said nothing about what they fired. And so I put nothing in there. If you need some help, let me know and I'l take your side of this for a while. You're not scoring here, you're boring here. : If tanks had fired their main guns in Detroit, people would have been : screaming about it for the past two and half decades. I would know about : it. Glad to know you're such an expert. Nice to hear some an authority. I especially appreciate your basis of knowledge -- if it had happened, you would have know it. Since you are such an authority, you probably know that people did scream about an alleged massive cover-up in the number of people killed in the Detroit riot. Some claimed 100+ dead, others said 300. The offical number is 43 but the Concise Columbia Encyclopedia says it was ""several"". I've also heard some things about that but I won't dare repeat them. You'd assert that I claimed they were truth. : Unless you also claim that the National Guard managed to cover it up. Taking the tour after the riots, it was pretty easy to tell the difference between Army and Guard troops. Or so I recall from 26 years ago. And I seem to recall it was the Army running the tanks. So it would have been an Army cover-up. Another part of my memories was that while most damaged building were burnt, some were in rubble. Based on what I remember, I was and am inclined to believe an old sarge or two. : If your mind is open enough to believe that, well, good for you. I prefer : to live in reality. And here in reality, I find it hard to believe that : those tanks even had any shells, much less fired them. Given the level in destruction in Detroit, I'm quite willing to believe that they did fire their guns. Now then, we've bored the shit out of anyone whose bothered to read this far and all you've managed to say is that you don't believe the account I cited. : --John L. Scott -- wes ",16 "Can I have 2 printers on a PC LAN ?????????????? I have recently plunged into PC World. I have been using Amigas before. Trying to establish a network (LAN) here that could use 2 different printers. Panasonic KXP2124 for printing receipts and Okidata OL400 for letters etc. Is it at all possible in this world ? I know when using Unix etc I can specify which printer to print from. But I am not sure how PCs would handle that. If they can't then I guess I'll leave PeeeCeees for good and move on to Unix. Mubashir Cheema Sparco Communications Ph: (601) 323-5360 LaGalarie Fax:(601) 324-6433 500 Russell Street, Suite 20 email: mac1@ra.msstate.edu Starkville, MS 39759 ",3 "Re: Metric vs English In <1993Apr5.195215.16833@pixel.kodak.com> dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones) writes: >Keith Mancus (mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov) wrote: >> Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Dunn) writes: >> > SI neatly separates the concepts of ""mass"", ""force"" and ""weight"" >> > which have gotten horribly tangled up in the US system. >> >> This is not a problem with English units. A pound is defined to >> be a unit of force, period. There is a perfectly good unit called >> the slug, which is the mass of an object weighing 32.2 lbs at sea level. >> (g = 32.2 ft/sec^2, of course.) >> >American Military English units, perhaps. Us real English types were once >taught that a pound is mass and a poundal is force (being that force that >causes 1 pound to accelerate at 1 ft.s-2). We had a rare olde tyme doing >our exams in those units and metric as well. American, perhaps, but nothing military about it. I learned (mostly) slugs when we talked English units in high school physics and while the teacher was an ex-Navy fighter jock the book certainly wasn't produced by the military. [Poundals were just too flinking small and made the math come out funny; sort of the same reason proponents of SI give for using that.] -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",14 "Re: Clipper considered harmful In article <1r24us$oeh@agate.berkeley.edu> shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu (Ken Shirriff) writes: In article <15469@optilink.COM> brad@optilink.COM (Brad Yearwood) writes: >Finally, because there is essentially no possibility of intercepting in >realtime the scrutable content of communications between stolen instruments, >there will exist strong motivation to record and archive _all_ communications >in the network for ex-post-facto scrutiny (once some criminal act is >discovered, and the instruments involved have been identified). ""All"" is a *very* big number. The AT&T Long Distance network has around 20,000 T3 trunks (45 Mbit/sec), which is on the order of 10**12 bits/sec. That doesn't even count the amount of traffic in the LOCAL phone companies, or our long-distance competitors. It's about 200 Exabytes tapes / second, which is pretty large even for the NSA :-) On the other hand, I can easily see them recording the traffic for ""interesting"" people, such as dissidents, suspected criminals, foreign telephone calls, and anybody noticed using encryption. As Ken Shiriff speculates, recording encrypted traffic will probably be judged not to be an invasion of privacy pretty soon .... -- # Pray for peace; Bill # Bill Stewart 1-908-949-0705 wcs@anchor.att.com AT&T Bell Labs 4M312 Holmdel NJ # No, I'm *from* New Jersey, I only *work* in cyberspace.... # White House Commect Line 1-202-456-1111 fax 1-202-456-2461 ",11 "Need help with busted Imtec 1455N monitor, need specs on it or monitors in gen. HELP!! This morning I turned on my computer..to be greated with a popping noise from the monitor. I quickly looked thru the top right vent and to my disbelief saw orange flame and smelled smoke! Great... I opened it up to see what I could see (it's 4 years old, no warrenty for me). On one of the pc boards there was a resistor that had been majorly fryed..burnt to a crisp..can't even tell what value it is. This is the only pjhysical damage I can find. But to my knowledge, resistors don't just randomly blow. What could have happened?? A voltage regulator problem..? The fuses nearby are intact...great job. I have 2 thoughts as to why it did this. One, over the winter I was ruinning a humidifier for about 6 weeks, although it was halfway across the room. Could moisture done this? I last used it over a month ago. Second, as most people do...I never use the power switches on the CPU or moinitor. I have everything plugged into a surge protector and I turn the whole shebang on with it. Now, is this bad??? Should I quit doing it? Is my system getting too much power or varrying power this way when activated? Now...before I take it to a repaoir shop I want to replace the resistor to see what happens. But I have no idea what value it is. Or even if that would fix things..would it just blow again?? Right now, when I plug it in and turn it on I don't even get the power LED..a power supply prolem?? Should I bother tracking down this resistor value or take it to a shop?? It is resistor R830. It's near the metal shield that shgields..something..near a large black electrolytic capacitor. It's on the right most pc board. The monitor is an Imtec 1455N, from mid-1989. Does someone have schematics for this? Or would someone be willing to take theirs apart and see what value R830 is??? Basically, what the hell should I do to get this thing fixed for the cheapest amont in the least time. I have crosposted this article. Please respond via email with any help or suggestions. Also, does anyone have Imtecs phone or address?? My manual lacks either from what I can see. Please respons VIA EMAIL ONLY!!! Needless to say, with no computer I don't have the leisure of scanning groups while bothering my friend to use his computer/modem. Help..this really bites and I need it working ASAP!!! ",3 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Keith Mancus) writes: >>>Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Jeff Cook) writes: >>>>people in primitive tribes out in the middle of nowhere as they look up That has sort of happened for real. Back in the 1920's travellers in the Sudan would find strange cigar shaped designs on native huts. When asked the locals would say it was a picture of the great omen that appeared in the sky. This was LZ 53 a zepplin flying from Bulgaria to German East Africa with supplies in 1917 (and back since it was fooled by the British secret service.) -- Dave Stephenson Geological Survey of Canada Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Internet: stephens@geod.emr.ca ",14 "Carrying case for Centris 610 ? Does anyone know if there is a carrying case for the Centris 610? Thanks for any info. -- ************************************************************************* Saiid Paryavi paryavi@matt.ksu.ksu.edu saiid@cis.ksu.edu ************************************************************************* ",4 "Re: CNN for sale; Influencing the coverage In <1993Apr19.171602.27135@guinness.idbsu.edu> betz@gozer.idbsu.edu (Andrew Betz) writes: >In article <1993Apr19.153444.28112@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >>I'd be willing to go in as well. By the way, we wouldn't need to >>buy the network wholesale. Simply owning a large number of shares >>would still work (if 5% of the shareholders want pro-gun coverage >>and the rest don't really care, they'll go along just to keep >>the 5% happy...) >I'd go along with this plan as well. Turner's stock is traded >on the American exchange and has 3 classes (A, B, and C). A and >B stock is currently about 23 bucks a share; C stock is about 11 >bucks a share. Does anybody have any idea how much stock TBS >has issued? What would it take to reach 5%, 51%, or even 100%? Um, I sortof hesitate to bring this up, but owning even a single share entitles you to attend the annual shareholders meeting, and under most corporate charters to introduce topics to be discussed. While I *don't* suggest the tactic used by some in Japan (go to the shareholders meeting, and disrupt the bejeezus out of everything), what about a well-worded resolution complaining about ""advocacy journalism""? -- Laird P. Broadfield lairdb@crash.cts.com ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb Hi! I'm a shareware signature! Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual! ",16 "Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES In article <1993Apr19.155856.8260@kpc.com> henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes: >In article <1993Apr17.185118.10792@ee.rochester.edu>, terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes: >|> In article <1993Apr16.195452.21375@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes: >|> >04/16/93 1045 ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES >|> > >|> >|> Ermenistan kasiniyor... >|> >|> Let me translate for everyone else before the public traslation service gets >|> into it : Armenia is getting itchy. >|> >|> Esin. > > >Let me clearify Mr. Turkish; > >ARMENIA is NOT getting ""itchy"". SHE is simply LETTING the WORLD KNOW that SHE >WILL NO LONGER sit there QUIET and LET TURKS get away with their FAMOUS >tricks. Armenians DO REMEMBER of the TURKISH invasion of the Greek island of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >CYPRESS WHILE the world simply WATCHED. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Your ignorance is obvious from your posting. 1) Cyprus was an INDEPENDENT country with Turkish/Greek inhabitants (NOT a Greek island like your ignorant posting claims) 2) The name should be Cyprus (in English) next time read and learn before you post. Esin. ",17 "Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead-- In article , zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz) writes: > >So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own good , > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it. > !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!! > >As a rule of philosophy, I don't feel particularly sorry when somebody gets > >offed by his own stupidity, but It does worry me when some idiot is in a > >position to cash in my chips, too. > > H.H. Mayo > > Well, Aren't we just Mr. Altruism himself!! Just what the world needs, > another frustrated self appointed traffic cop. Well, if you want to stick the nose of your car up the ass of a 50 foot semi, I suppose it's your neck, however, I'm not going to let you kill me in the bargain. If you get frustrated by somebody delaying your inevitable death due to less that wise driving practices, then TOUGH!!! ""Thank God for the Fourth of July, for it yearly rids the earth of a considerable load of fools"" Mark Twain ",7 "Source to create FLI or FLC ? Does anyone know if the source is available to create FLI or FLC animations? I would ideally like DLL's for Windows but would settle for C source. I've heard they might be available on Amiga forums somewhere. The libraries currently distributed by Autodesk, AAWIN, AAPLAY, do NOT have FLI creation capability, only playback. Any pointers would be appreciated, thanks! - Andrew Hudson abh@genesis.nred.ma.us ",1 "Re: Please help identify this old 3Com Ethernet card In article <1qhvunINNhau@emory.mathcs.emory.edu>, splee@pd.org (Seng-Poh Lee, Speedy) writes: |> I have an old 3Com ethernet card (PC AT Bus) that came out of a Apollo |> workstation. I'm trying to identify it in order to use it on a PC. |> |> The Assembly number is 4008-00 REV 2 and it is a 16 bit card, circa |> 1985. It has an AUI port as well as a BNC coax connection. It has |> selectable address for the BIOS, IO, DMA, and IRQ locations via berg |> jumpers. It also appears to have a Intel 80186 processor on board, |> presumably for buffering. |> |> The ethernet chip appears to be an Intel 82586, a 48 pin DIP package. Is |> this chip an equivalent to the 8390 used in some cards? There is also |> a 68 pin PLCC chip, called a LINK+ |> |> Please e-mail as I don't think this is of general interest. My least favorite last line of a post. Um, it is of general interest. As I prepare to retire 22 Apollos myself, I'm looking for ways to recycle the useful parts. Mike Simon simon@moscow.uidaho.edu ",3 "Re: Binyamin Netanyahu on CNN tonight. In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: >In article <2BCCA235.803@news.service.uci.edu> tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes: > >>Just because someone else loves sitting in shit and throws some at >>you doesn't mean you have to get in a shit fight. [...] >>Let this little cadre of >>verbal bigots and mentally-challenged idiots talk to themselves. > >Hear, hear! If everyone followed this rule, tpm would consist >entirely of Arab apologists howling at the moon all by themselves. > 80% of tpm articles are posted by jews. If you all stop posting on tpm, it will be out of business. Nabil ",18 "Re: Blinking Cursor in Xterm??? As quoted from <1993May13.212321.2563@moepi.do.open.de> by bernward@moepi.do.open.de (Bernward Averwald): +--------------- > Back in the days of X11.1 I did analyse the xterm code. The cursor > was implemented by drawing a rectangle around the character. I doesn't > seem to be changed 'til now. > But if you have the sources you could add a blinking cursor via > XtAppAddTimeOut or similar :-|. The server overhead for this is mildly ridiculous, though (see also DESQview/X, which does this in its DOS windows). Do you really want xterm to wake up every half second and whack the server into doing a bitblt? ++Brandon ",5 "Re: Diamond Stelth 24- any good? I bought the diamond stealth 24 a few months ago. it seems to be a great card especially with my multimedia presentations. It runs graphics and animation as well as some near full motion video very well. The only thing I can tell that it lacks is speed above 256 colors. Its qualit in between 256 and 16.7 million collors un unreal but you definitly compromise speed. It seems to be a great card for graphics and it comes with some great software, but Im not so sure about the excelerator part. I used to own a paridise and it doesnt seem to be much faster than that. One thing I do like is that it loads its own vesa driver from ROM at startup, (I think) because I have never had to load it for links386 or any other programs that require special VESA drivers at startup. gromi a16pd HINTMATT@BA.BA.ISU.EDU -- ",1 "Re: Date is stuck jamesc@netcom.com (James Chuang) writes: >When you leave your radio on at night, it may not be doing anything useful. >But computers can do something useful even when YOU are not in front of it. >Just because MS-DOS and WINDOZE does not know how to schedule tasks does >not mean that all computers hould be shut down every night. >I bet starting up NT every morning means a good coffee break.... >jamesc >-- >========================================= >If someone asks if you are a God, you say... YES! In addition to startup time, I leave things running because my PC doubles as a fax machine. However, this is off the original subject. I didn't get the replies on BIOS, CMOS, and DOS clock/date logic. All I know is that I've been running this way for many months and it is only recently, the last month, that I have noticed the intermittent clock problem. As I stated, it is not always the date that doesn't roll forward, sometimes I notice that the clock is several minutes behind where it ought to be. When unattended, the following are generally running minimized in Win 3.1: Clock, WinFax Pro 3.0, Print Manager, MS-Word 1.1, File Manager, Program Manager A random screen saver is generally running too. -- Barry Sardis | Home: (408) 448-1589 1241 Laurie Avenue | Office: (408) 448-7404 San Jose, CA 95125 | Fax: (408) 448-7404 Email: bsardis@netcom.COM or 70105.1210@compuserve.COM ",3 "Re: SAD MAC CODE 0F0064 ??? In article <1993Apr21.124822.8824@desire.wright.edu> cse0603@desire.wright.edu writes: >Hello > > I am the proud new owner of a MAC 512K. Upon power-up and insertion > of the sytem disk, I get SAD MAC code 0F0064. Can anyone give me a > clue to what this means? Bad system disk. (possibly too new a version for your historical curiosity^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFat Mac) -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Some news readers expect ""Disclaimer:"" here. Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. (not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice) ",4 "Re: Adapter for IIsi and a vga monitor In article <1993Apr24.055158.11640@midway.uchicago.edu> choi@gsbsrc.uchicago.edu (Dongseok Choi) writes: > I understand that if I have a correct adapter then I can >use a vga monitor with my IIsi. > Are those adapters working with specific brands? > Is adapter for NEC or Sony working with other brands? > I will be using a vga monitor with IIsi for a month soon. > I don't have any clue what monitor will be. Here's the story: (1) The IIsi *cannot* supply a VGA output. However... (2) Some VGA-type monitors can adequately deal with the video signal the Mac uses to drive the Apple 13 or 14 inch ""high resolution color display""---i.e., Apple's own 640x480 mode. So, if you wish to hook one of these monitors up to your IIsi, you need (a) an adapter that converts from the Mac DB-15 connector to the VGA-style high density DB-15 connector, *but* tells the Mac to use it's own 640x480 mode, not the VGA 640x480 mode, and (b) a VGA monitor that can deal with the higher bandwidth of the Mac 640x480 mode over the VGA 640x480 mode (which as I stated in (1) above, the IIsi cannot produce). As far as (a) above is concerned, contact James Engineering, Inc. 6329 Fairmount Ave. El Cerrito, CA 94530 510-525-7350 FAX: 510-525-5740 They can probably get you the right adapter. Remember: you do *not* want the run-of-the-mill Mac-to-VGA adapter, because it will try to have your IIsi produce the VGA mode, which it cannot (the computer will just fail to produce any video signal at all). Instead, you want an adapter that connects between the Mac-style and VGA-style connectors, but tells the Mac to use the Apple 640x480 mode. Sorry for the poor terminology available for describing this distinction. As far as (b) is concerned, make sure to get a monitor that can deal with a horizontal bandwidth of 35 KHz and a vertical retrace rate of 67 Hz. These are the spec's of Apple's 640x480 mode. For comparison, the VGA-standard 640x480 mode uses a 31.5 KHz horizontal bandwidth and a 60 Hz. vertical retrace rate. The monitor will probably need to have auto-synch'ing capability, as the Apple mode you'll be using isn't one of the set of standard modes in the PC compatible world. Good luck! -Fred Martin -- Fred Martin | fredm@media.mit.edu | (617) 253-7143 | 20 Ames St. Rm. E15-301 Epistemology and Learning Group, MIT Media Lab | Cambridge, MA 02139 USA ",4 "DoD Books Anyone around here read this yet? Does Anita have a number? >> Title: Software measurement for DoD systems : recommendations for initial >> core measures / Anita D. Carleton, ... [et al.]. >> Subject: Software engineering.; Computer programming management. >> Author: Carleton, Anita D. >> Author: Carnegie-Mellon University. Software Engineering Institute. >> Publ: Pittsburgh, Pa. : Carnegie Mellon University, Software Engineering >> Institute, 1992. 53 p. Tony -- =-=-= These opinions are nothing but my own, and I may not even want them =-=-= Antonio Salerno ""The heart, the liver, the spleen, the pancreas. All antonio.j.salerno@att.com these miraculous organs work in _total_darkness_!"" =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - David Letterman -=-=-=-=-= ",8 "Re: dogs 21 Apr 1993 egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) Writes: --In article 21311@adobe.com, cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes: --writes: -->}Sheesh, even a trained attack dog is no match for a human, -->}we have *all* the advantages. --> -->I agree with this 100%. -- --Me, too... for chihuahua's. The police and the military don't train --dobermans and shephards and use them as weapons because they are so --easy for the average Joe to defeat barehanded. You may have opposing --thumbs, but the dog has teeth so effective some of yours are named for --him. He has IR vision, better hearing and better smell than you do, --and most likely faster reflexes. -- --You're on a motorcycle, he's on paws. Roll on and blow him off. He --doesn't even have net access. -- -- --Ed Green C'mon Ed......... a) All things have their weak areas b) What's IR....Idiot Response......Dogs have more Rods or Cones (I'm not sure which?) than humans and this allows their eyes to collect more light in lower light conditions. Consequently their colour vision is almost non-existant. I mean, if dogs had built in infra-red vision, the armed forces would be strapping them to missiles instead of paying a quarter million for IR guidance capabilities. c) My dog has net access ! ! \_/ ***************************************************************************** * Mike Maser | DoD#= 0536 | SQUID RATING: 5.333333333333333 * * 9235 Pinetree Rd. |----------------------------------------------* * Sidney, B.C., CAN. | Hopalonga Twinfart Yuka-Yuka EXCESS 400 * * V8L-1J1 | wish list: Tridump, Mucho Guzler, Burley * * home (604) 656-6131 | Thumpison, or Bimotamoeba * * work (604) 721-7297 |*********************************************** * mmaser@sirius.UVic.CA |JOKE OF THE MONTH: What did the gay say to the* * University of Victoria | Indian Chief ? * * news: rec.motorcycles | ANSWER: Can I bum a couple bucks ? * ***************************************************************************** ",8 "Re: Israel's Expansion II It is all so changed by now. but in case any of you is interested in what I actually said, I never compared the Israeli treatment of the palestinians with the Holocaust. Anyway that is the truth if it matters. I was about to forget about it myself since everyone started calling me anti-semitic for making the comparison that I never made. What I did say was that the Nazis didn't start with the Holocaust and their initial actions were similar to what the Israelis are doing now. The Jews that were stranded on the polish border since no country accepted them are like the arabs stranded on the lebenese border. No trials, no hearing, just expulsion based on guilt due to race. ",17 "Re: Space Station Redesign, JSC Alternative #4 In article <1993Apr23.184732.1105@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes... {Description of ""External Tank"" option for SSF redesign deleted} >Mark proposed this design at Joe Shea's committee in Crystal City, >and he reports that he was warmly received. However, the rumors >I hear say that a design based on a wingless Space Shuttle Orbiter >seems more likely. Yo Ken, let's keep on-top of things! Both the ""External Tank"" and ""Wingless Orbiter"" options have been deleted from the SSF redesign options list. Today's (4/23) edition of the New York Times reports that O'Connor told the panel that some redesign proposals have been dropped, such as using the ""giant external fuel tanks used in launching space shuttles,"" and building a ""station around an existing space shuttle with its wings and tail removed."" Currently, there are three options being considered, as presented to the advisory panel meeting yesterday (and as reported in today's Times). Option ""A"" - Low Cost Modular Approach This option is being studied by a team from MSFC. {As an aside, there are SSF redesign teams at MSFC, JSC, and LaRC supporting the SRT (Station Redesign Team) in Crystal City. Both LeRC and Reston folks are also on-site at these locations, helping the respective teams with their redesign activities.} Key features of this option are: - Uses ""Bus-1"", a modular bus developed by Lockheed that's qualified for STS and ELV's. The bus provides propulsion, GN&C Communications, & Data Management. Lockheed developed this for the Air Force. - A ""Power Station Capability"" is obtained in 3 Shuttle Flights. SSF Solar arrays are used to provide 20 kW of power. The vehicle flies in an ""arrow mode"" to optimize the microgravity environment. Shuttle/Spacelab missions would utilize the vehilce as a power source for 30 day missions. - Human tended capability (as opposed to the old SSF sexist term of man-tended capability) is achieved by the addition of the US Common module. This is a modified version of the existing SSF Lab module (docking ports are added for the International Partners' labs, taking the place of the nodes on SSF). The Shuttle can be docked to the station for 60 day missions. The Orbiter would provide crew habitability & EVA capability. - International Human Tended. Add the NASDA & ESA modules, and add another 20 kW of power - Permanent Human Presence Capability. Add a 3rd power module, the U.S. habitation module, and an ACRV (Assured Crew Return Vehicle). Option ""B"" - Space Station Freedom Derived The Option ""B"" team is based at LaRC, and is lead by Mike Griffin. This option looks alot like the existing SSF design, which we have all come to know and love :) This option assumes a lightweight external tank is available for use on all SSF assembly flights (so does option ""A""). Also, the number of flights is computed for a 51.6 inclination orbit, for both options ""A"" and ""B"". The build-up occurs in six phases: - Initial Research Capability reached after 3 flights. Power is transferred from the vehicle to the Orbiter/Spacelab, when it visits. - Man-Tended Capability (Griffin has not yet adopted non-sexist language) is achieved after 8 flights. The U.S. Lab is deployed, and 1 solar power module provides 20 kW of power. - Permanent Human Presence Capability occurs after 10 flights, by keeping one Orbiter on-orbit to use as an ACRV (so sometimes there would be two Orbiters on-orbit - the ACRV, and the second one that comes up for Logistics & Re-supply). - A ""Two Fault Tolerance Capability"" is achieved after 14 flights, with the addition of a 2nd power module, another thermal control system radiator, and more propulsion modules. - After 20 flights, the Internationals are on-board. More power, the Habitation module, and an ACRV are added to finish the assembly in 24 flights. Most of the systems currently on SSF are used as-is in this option, with the exception of the data management system, which has major changes. Option C - Single Core Launch Station. This is the JSC lead option. Basically, you take a 23 ft diameter cylinder that's 92 ft long, slap 3 Space Shuttle Main Engines on the backside, put a nose cone on the top, attached it to a regular shuttle external tank and a regular set of solid rocket motors, and launch the can. Some key features are: - Complete end-to-end ground integration and checkout - 4 tangentially mounted fixed solar panels - body mounted radiators (which adds protection against micrometeroid & orbital debris) - 2 centerline docking ports (one on each end) - 7 berthing ports - a single pressurized volume, approximately 26,000 cubic feet (twice the volume of skylab). - 7 floors, center passageway between floors - 10 kW of housekeeping power - graceful degradation with failures (8 power channels, 4 thermal loops, dual environmental control & life support system) - increased crew time for utilization - 1 micro-g thru out the core module ",14 "Telephone Controlled Power Bar Needed I would appreciate some help in locating a telephone controlled power bar for my PC. The unit would power up the PC when the telephone rings and keep it up as long as the telephone connection is present. I also need to be able to power up this same PC through the use of an external timer. I can supply power or a contact closure to do this. I will summarize and post the results of this query here. Thank you. -- Dan Gould gould@waterloo.hp.com ",12 "Re: Who Says the Apostles Were Tortured? : The willingness of true believers : to die for their belief, be it in Jesus or Jim Jones, is : well-documented, so martyrdom in and of itself says little. It does say something about the depth of their belief. Religion has both deluded believers and con men. The difference is often how far they will follow their beliefs. I have no first hand, or even second hand, knowledge of how the original apostles died. If they began a myth in hopes of exploiting it for profit, and followed that myth to the death, that would be inconsistent. Real con men would bail out when it was obvious it would lead to discomfort, pain and death. The story in 1 Kings regarding the 450 prophets of Baal is of no help in this debate. One can easily assume that they believed that no overwhelming vindication of Elijah would be forthcoming. He was simply a fool, who would be shown to be so. The fire from heaven was swift and their seizure and deaths were equally swift. ",0 "Serdar Hey Serdar, What are you retarded? ******************************************************************** System: fourd.com Phone: 617-494-0565 Cute quote: Being a computer means never having to say you're sorry ******************************************************************** ",17 "Re: Lead ACid Batteries Part 2!!! In article rdell@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (richard.b.dell) writes: >In article <1993Apr27.211036.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> jhwhit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes: >>In article <1993Apr26.221422.17208@mprgate.mpr.ca>, vanderby@mprgate.mpr.ca (David Vanderbyl) writes: >> > > >>The lead-acid secondary cell discharge reaction is EXOTHERMIC. I am glad >>you do not dispute this point. If you don't want the lead storage battery >>to discharge, it should be stored such that its charged state is the >>equilibrium state. During winter, the ground, be it covered with >>concrete, dirt, or wood, maintains a cooler temperature on average than >>the surrounding air or the battery. The heat capacity of air is less than >>that of concrete, dirt, or wood, so it heats faster. Conversely, air cools >>faster, too. >> >>The normal storage procedure for a battery is to leave it in an unheated >>garage or basement. The storage surface is often cooler than the >>surrounding air, with the battery temperature somewhere in-between. E.g., >>the basement air temperature may be 70 F, the floor temperature 65 F, and >>the battery temperature 66 F. >> >>The air temperature is HIGHER than the battery temperature. The heat of >>reaction is not going to move up the gradient. The floor temperature is >>LOWER than the battery temperature, and heat is going to move to it. The >>floor is an incredible heat sink. >> > >Might depend on where you live .. I know locally, for most of the winter >the ground, and concrete floor, within sheds and garages (unheated) is >signifacantly warmer than the average air temperature. The air does get >warmer during the day, but during the night, the ground and concrete >is definitely warmer, especially when protected by the walls from the >albedo effect. And the nights are longer by several hours than the >days. > > >> >>Jeff White jhwhit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu > >Richard Dell Sorry about following up my own article, but I wanted to continue that what might be being missed here is that the important thing might not be temperature differences per se, but the action of heat sinking the battery. Perhap someone could conduct an experiment, taking two identical lead acid batteries, placing both on wooden shelves, but putting one of them in a water bath designed to act as a heat sink. This would eliminate the 'concrete floor effect', and keep both batteries at the same ambient temperature. I think the argument over temperatures is not pertinent, but the one over heat conductance and removing the exothermic heat may have some validity. Richard Dell ",12 "drawing an abstract graph I am looking for software to draw a graph. I want to just give it a list of nodes and edges between the nodes and have the program come up with some reasonable positioning of it. Thanks in advance. --Dan Aronson dan@think.com Thinking Machines Corporation ",5 "Re: More Cool BMP files?? In article <1993Apr20.173506.2288@dlss2> james@dlss2 (James Cummings) writes: >Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.misc >Path: atldbs!uupsi!psinntp!uunet!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!convex!seas.smu.edu!void!dalnet!dlss2!james >From: james@dlss2 (James Cummings) >Subject: Re: More Cool BMP files?? >Message-ID: <1993Apr20.173506.2288@dlss2> >Organization: RedRock Development >References: <1993Apr17.023017.17301@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> >Distribution: usa >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 17:35:06 GMT >Lines: 1021 >In article <1993Apr17.023017.17301@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> rwang@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (John Wang) writes: > |Hi, everybody: > | I guess my subject has said it all. It is getting boring > |looking at those same old bmp files that came with Windows. So, > |I am wondering if there is any body has some beautiful bmp file > |I can share. Or maybe somebody can tell me some ftp site for > |some bmp files, like some scenery files, some animals files, > |etc.... I used to have some, unfortunately i delete them all. > | > |Anyway could me give me some help, please??? > | > > In response to a ""different"" kinda wallpaper, here's what I >use. I think the original gif/whatever was called ""not_real"". The >artist name and logo is in the lower right corner. You will need VGA >I think, and I have this sized for 800x600 256 color screens. Use >this in your Windows directory and do not tile it. Hope you enjoy. > > I had a question abo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Owen Adair WD4FSU adair@dbsoftware.com D&B Software ...backbone!uupsi5!atldbs!adair (404) 239-3690 There is an alarming increase of topics I know nothing about. ",2 "Re: How many read sci.space? rborden@ugly.UVic.CA (Ross Borden) writes: > Quick! Everyone who sees this, post a reply that says: > ""Hey, I read sci.space!"" >Then we can count them, and find out how many there are! :-) >(This will also help answer that nagging question: ""Just what is >the maximum bandwidth of the Internet, anyways?"") Don't you think it would be better to E-mail back to you that we read sci.space so that you can count them and every server in the world does not have to get BW'd to death. Or instead you could possible cut and past all the senders into a single post and save on header bandwidth.... Not meaning to be taken as a flame it's late and we have to work toward a demo .... little punchy -- -jftm- ",14 "Re: Welcome to Police State USA In hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.030234.66491@cc.usu.edu>, slp9k@cc.usu.edu writes: >|>Xref: dscomsa alt.activism:6011 talk.politics.misc:22764 >|>Path: dscomsa!dxcern!mcsun!uunet!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!slp9k >|>From: slp9k@cc.usu.edu >|>Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc >|>Subject: Re: Welcome to Police State USA >|>Message-ID: <1993Apr20.030234.66491@cc.usu.edu> >|>Date: 20 Apr 93 03:02:34 MDT >|>References: <1993Apr20.004224.66488@cc.usu.edu> >|>Organization: Utah State University >|>Lines: 34 >|> >|>In article , azoghlin@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Very Old Freshman (VOF)) writes: >|>> Critisism is too easy. What solutions do people have that would have been >|>> better than what the FBI had been doing for the last few months? >|> >|> Firstly, they could have backed off. When you put a power freak, like >|>David Koresh, in that kind of situation he is going to explode. (no pun >|>intended). Koresh wanted to be a martyr and the government played right into >|>his hands. >|> >|> If the government hadn't given him the attention he wanted nothing >|>would have ever happened. >|> >|> Secondly, the Davidians were expecting everything the government did. >|>They thought that they were facing the apocalypse, and that they were to perish >|>in fire. They weren't scared of the FBI. They are not the average hoods, they >|>are very devout followers of a religion. PsyOps didn't work and the government >|>got frustrated so they murdered them. >|> >|> The BATF should have left at the beginning, they should have looked at >|>Koresh's personality. Instead they thought, ""They have guns. We have bigger >|>guns. Let's go get 'em!"" >|> >|> They botched it from day one. They shouldn't have been there in the >|>first place. >The above conveniently ignores the murder of four BATF agents by the >Branch Davidians in an unprovoked ambush. >Any government that allows tinpot dictators to set up shop and declare >a private state has drifted into anarchy. There are laws to control >the ownership of guns and the BATF had good reason to beleive that >they were being violated. They set out to obtain a legal warrant and >attempted to serve it only to be met with gunfire when they rang >the doorbell. +>The paranoid assertion that the BATF fired first in an unprovoked +>assault assumes that the BATF were on a death wish. Had they +>expected the B-D to be anything other than peacefull citizens who +>would accept a search authorized by a court they would have turned up +>in a tank and broken the door down on day one. The search was a ""no-knock"" warrent. Meaning that what those on the scene see is a bunch of men with guns storming their compound and lobbing grenades at them. The terms of the search warrent are secret and the BATF has yet to even reveal what they were. +>The stupidity was the attempt to serve a warant on the place by +>ludicrously underarmed and unprotected police. They did not serve a warrent, they basically attacked the compound and expected a surrender. They had semiautomatics and concussion grenades that we KNOW about. Look at the death and injury toll inflicted on both sides in the first battle and its difficult to believe that either side had any superiority in weapons. +>If anyone on the net cares to suggest a sure fire method of bringing +>the murderes of four police officers to justice perhaps we could +>hear it. ",18 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes: >Getting the court order to reveal the key *also* makes decipherable >all *past* conversations (which may be on tape, or disk, or whatver), >as I understand the proposal. I could be wrong, but I've seen no >mention of ""session keys"" being the escrowed entities. True in theory. In practice? The technology of cellular phones will probably be spread spectrum and quite difficult to record the crypttext without the key. If the frequency path depends on they key, as I understand it to, it *could* be made effectively impossible to record. Once it hits land you can record it if you have telco access. The telco isn't supposed to give that without a warrant. That's the rule today. But even so, the evidence would not be admissible, I think, unless the judge so ordered. I think that even interception of the crypttext without a warrant would be illegal. Cops can't record today's plain cellular calls and then ask a judge, ""Hey, can we have permission to listen to those tapes?"" can they? >worse, of course, if the government then uses this ""Clinton Clipper"" >to argue for restrictions on unapproved encryption. (This is the main >concern of most of us, I think. The camel's nose in the tent, etc.) Yes, that is a major concern, but I think that they think they can win just by having 99.5% of the USA use this system. They don't even have to care about the cautious .5% that's left. They don't catch the really smart crooks anyway. John Gotti, who would have to be retarded not to realize he was likely to be wiretapped, glibly chatted away on his tapped phone about murder plans. That's why he's in jail now. Hard to believe, but true. This scheme can succeed without laws forbidding more, which people would fight a lot harder. They like this enough that they are dropping the so called ""Digital Telephony"" proposal, according to rumours. However the meaning of that is complex, since they still want to get at the crypttext on telco systems, and that requires a bit of work. -- Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366 ",11 "Real-Time Data Display Tool Hi, I'm looking for a X-Windows tool that can display data (in a 2D plot) in real time with a couple different signals. Anybody know of such a gem? Please Email me as I do not read this group often. Thanks much! Eric Slimko theslim@caen.engin.umich.edu ",5 "REGISTRATION: Andrew Tutorial & Technical Conference 1993 Andrew Tutorial and Technical Conference When: Thursday and Friday, June 24 and 25, 1993 (Deadline for Registration: June 4, 1993) Where: Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Sponsor: Andrew Consortium of CMU's School of Computer Science. Schedule: The Tutorial will be on Thursday, followed by dinner and the Annual Meeting. The Conference proper will be on Friday. All Conference attendees are welcome at the Annual Meeting. Wednesday, June 23 Check in: After 4:00 PM Informal Reception: 7:30 PM Thursday, June 24 Tutorial: 9:00 A.M. - 5:00 PM Conference Dinner: 6:30 PM Annual meeting: 8:00 PM Friday, June 25 Technical Conference: 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM Cost: Tutorial fee includes breaks, lunch and tutorial materials: $100 Conference fee includes conference dinner, breaks and proceedings: $100 Rooms (student housing): $50 / night Housing is tight around the campus area, so please register soon. If you prefer to stay in off-campus housing, please contact us for suggestions. Mary Anne Cowden will be handling registration. You can contact her by email, mc8b+@andrew.cmu.edu, or by phone, (412) 268-6710. Registration Form Please complete the attached form and return it to: Mary Anne Cowden Andrew Consortium Technical Conference Carnegie Mellon University Smith Hall 106 5000 Forbes Avenue Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890 <- cut along here -> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Name: ______________________________________________ Address: ______________________________________________ ______________________________________________ Organization: ______________________________________________ Email: ______________________________________________ Phone: ______________________________________________ Tutorial $ ___________ $100 Conference $ ___________ $100 Housing $ ___________ $50/night TOTAL ENCLOSED $ ___________ Please make checks payable to Carnegie Mellon University. ",5 "Re: Lezgians Astir in Azerbaijan and Daghestan In article <94492@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt1091a@prism.gatech.EDU (gt1091a gt1091a KAAN,TIMUCIN) wrote: [KT] HELLO, shit face david, I see that you are still around. I dont want to [KT] see your shitty writings posted here man. I told you. So ... close your eyes and walk away. [KT] You are getting itchy as your fucking country. I have been defending the history of the Armenians on this network for over six years. I have seen the likes of you enter his forum, make fools of themselves, and ""simply vanish"" as did the Armenians in 1915! [KT] Hey , and dont give me that freedom of speach bullshit once more. Realize sir, you are not in Turkey! In the USA freedom of speech is not considered ""bullshit"". It is because of such freedoms that Turks like yourself are allowed to attend Georgia Tech. [KT] Because your freedom has ended when you started writing things about my [KT] people. And try to translate this ""ebenin donu butti kafa David."". What's the problem? If you can't stand the heat -- leave! Your government murdered 1.5 million Armenians and you would have me stay quiet to suit your personal fancy or some fascist fetish regarding the greatness of Turkey! Well, that is simply too bad. [KT] BYE, ANACIM HADE. [KT] TIMUCIN Pis bogaz! -- David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | ""Armenia has not learned a lesson in S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | Anatolia and has forgotten the P.O. Box 382761 | punishment inflicted on it."" 4/14/93 Cambridge, MA 02238 | -- Late Turkish President Turgut Ozal ",17 "WANTED: Atomic Energy Res. Establishment (UK) techreport I'm looking for the following paper: Marlow, S. and Powell, M.J.D. A FORTRAN subroutine for plotting the part of a conic that is inside a given triangle. Rep. R-8336, Atomic Energy Res. Establishment, Harwell, England 1976 Or anything related (including 3D cases) Max -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Max Froumentin | Laboratoire d'Informatique | ""Always better, never first."" Fondamentale de Lille | - Tigran Petrossian France | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",1 "Re: Secret algorithm [Re: Clipper Chip and crypto key-escrow] In article <1993Apr18.032405.23325@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jebright@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James R Ebright) writes: >In article brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes: > >[...]> >>The greatest danger of the escrow database, if it were kept on disk, >>would be the chance that a complete copy could somehow leak out. You >[...]> >>Of course then it's hard to backup. However, I think the consequences >>of no backup -- the data is not there when a warrant comes -- are worse >>than the consequences of a secret backup. > >If the data isn't there when the warrant comes, you effectively have >secure crypto. If secret backups are kept...then you effectively have >no crypto. Thus, this poster is essentialy arguing no crypto is better >than secure crypto. No, the poster (me) has his brain in the wrong gear. As you can infer from the first sentence, I meant the consequences of no backup are *better* than the consequences of an easy to copy database. -- Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366 ",11 "Re: Life on Mars??? In article <1993Apr20.120311.1@pa881a.inland.com> schiewer@pa881a.inland.com (Don Schiewer) writes: >What is the deal with life on Mars? I save the ""face"" and heard >associated theories. (which sound thin to me) The ""face"" is an accident of light and shadow. There are many ""faces"" in landforms on Earth; none is artificial (well, excluding Mount Rushmore and the like...). There is also a smiley face on Mars, and a Kermit The Frog. The question of life in a more mundane sense -- bacteria or the like -- is not quite closed, although the odds are against it, and the most that the more orthodox exobiologists are hoping for now is fossils. There are currently no particular plans to do any further searches for life. >Are we going back to Mars to look at this face agian? Mars Observer, currently approaching Mars, will probably try to get a better image or two of the ""face"" at some point. It's not high priority; nobody takes it very seriously. The shadowed half of the face does not look very face-like, so all it will take is one shot at a different sun angle to ruin the illusion. -- All work is one man's work. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology - Kipling | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "HELP: LED connectors for motherboard I bought a 386DX-40 motherboard for 50$... no documentation at all. Everything appears to work, except I'm having trouble getting a few of the LED connectors working. I've looked at the manuals for 4 other motherboards, but the pin configuration doesn't look anything like what is on this board. Does this pin arrangement look familiar to anyone out there??? Any hints on where I can find this information? 1 10 ""speaker"" . . . . . . . . . . ""keylock"" . . . . . . . . . . 11 ^ 20 J23 | |The board came with a jumper vertically across these two pins. I can get the power/keylock to work across pins 11-15, reset across pins 9 and 19, but would prefer not to blow something up by further experimentation. The date on the board itself is 6/92, opti chips. I would really appreciate any help, and thank you in advance. N A Stassen Lantz ",3 "StyleWriter II Dying? I bought a StyleWriter II a couple months ago, and lately, when I print something, I notice white lines or ""gaps"" running through the line being printed. It's almost like the paper is advancing a smidge too far when advancing lines. I replaced the ink cartridge thinking it might be the problem, but the lines are still there. Has anyone else noticed this problem? What's the best way to get rid of it? -- +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+ | Brian S. Davidson | Internet: bsd9554@ultb.isc.rit.edu | | Rochester Institute of Technology | BITNET: BSD9554@RITVAX | +-----------------------------------+------------------------------------+ ",4 "Re: CLINTON JOINS LIST OF GENOCIDAL SOCIALIST LEADERS In article <1r6h4vINN844@clem.handheld.com>, jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) wrote: > > You seem to make two points. No one ultimately oversees the federal agencies > you mention, and since Koresh ""apparently"" has a different view point from your > Baptist upbringing, then he is not worthy of protection from religious > persecution. As to being the Messiah, is not Christ within us all? > > Must be comforting to belong to a government approved religion. > > Baptists are a cult, two, BTW, under most of the definitions in the dictionary > of ""cult"". > I've yet to meet a group of Baptists who were stockpiling Cambell's soup and M-16's/AR-15's and banging/marrying thirteen yuear olds. You're a sorry son of a bitch if you can't draw a distinction between these two things. People like you cheapen our constitution by using it to defend sociopaths who aren't deserved of it. Get a life and chill on the paranoia. joe.kusmierczak@mail.trincoll.edu ",16 "FOR SALE:high-guality conifer oil from Russia,$450/ton,400 ton Inguiry by address:er1@eridan.chuvashia.su ",6 "the nature of light In article <30185@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: [ deleted ] >Take light as another example. There are two theories: particle and >wave. Each one fails to predict the behavior of light as some point. >So which is it: particle or wave? [ deleted ] Your information on this topic is very much out of date. Quantum Electro- dynamics (QED - which considers light to be particles) has been experimentally verified to about 14 decimal digits of precision under ALL tested conditions. I'm afraid that this case, at least in the physics community, has been decided. Laymen should consult ""QED - The Strange Theory of Light and Matter"" by Richard P. Feynman and for the more technically minded there's ""The Feynman Lectures on Physics"" by Feynman, Leighton and Sands (an excellent 3 volumes). Case closed. UUCP: uunet!tektronix!sail!mikec or M.Cranford uunet!tektronix!sail.labs.tek.com!mikec Principal Troll ARPA: mikec%sail.LABS.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET Resident Skeptic CSNet: mikec@sail.LABS.TEK.COM TekLabs, Tektronix ",19 "Minnesota Shame? SH>I'm a hockey fan from way back, and maintain an interest as best I can >here in the hockey hinterlands (Oklahoma). I'm hoping I can get a >reading from some of you about the move of the North Stars to Dallas. SH>I've been under the impression that Minnesota was one of, or possibly, >THE hockey state in the U.S. So why is the team moving to a city in >Texas? Is it that the owner is a greedy, self-serving profiteer, or >were the Stars really not making a profit? Or was the city or whoever >owned the arena doing some price gouging? SH>As much as I'd like to see the NHL only a 3 hour drive from me, I >can't help but feel for the people in Minnesota, unless they truly >didn't support the team. SH>Opinions, please. I used to work for the Stars. Minnesota supported the team to an extent. When I was there, we had quite afew sellouts (This was the season after the cup run and during the finals). Norm's main bitch was that there wasn't enough luxury suites. And, the ones he had were not always full. He wanted more boxes and wanted them full. He was just asking for too much from people that could go and see other hockey games at High Schools for $5 or college for about $10 that would probably be better. Mark þ QMPro 1.01 41-6393 þ Radioactive cats are very, very HOT! * Origin: Origin Line Not Defined In GOEDIT (1:282/4018) ",10 "DoD Confessional I can't help myself. I've tried to be rational, to look the other way, but everytime it happens, its uncontrollable. I hate pre'80s motorcycles. At first I thought it was a phase. I though I would get used to them. It didn't happen. I tried gazing at CB750s and 900 customs, but each time I sadistically pictured them being hurled off of large precipice (I also picture a swarm of german tourists cheering and taking holiday snaps, but I can't figure that part out). What am I to do? Everytime I read a .sig containing some spoked wheel wonder, I shudder and feel pity that the poor soul has suffered enough. I imagine the owner scrapping out his (or her) living in a discarded Maytag refridgerator box, tucked in next to their CX500. I'm hoping for some deliverance. I had in the past loathed the Milwaukee machine, but I can actually begin to understand some of the preaching. There must be hope. -- =================================================== = The Beav |Mike Beavington| Dod:9733 = = V65Sabre mbeaving@bnr.ca = = My employer has no idea what I'm talking about! = =================================================== ",8 "Re: XQueryTree, XGrabServer, and robustness In article <1993May18.150655.23645@viewlogic.com> josh@viewlogic.com (Josh Marantz) writes: >I have an application that wants to walk the server window hierarchy, >looking for a window with a specific property. >I think what happens is that XQueryTree gives me an array of n >children, but by the time I get to the nth child window, it has been >destroyed. Then I get a BadWindow error, and my application exits. > >How can I make this robust? I've thought of the following: ... >2. Set up an X error handler that longjmps back to where I > made the offending call. Is this safe? Do I have to > longjmp, or can I just return? BadWindow is an X protocol error. If you write a custom error handler which does not do ""exit(1);"" the error handler will return and let your program carry on. So, using a XSetErrorHandler is the way to go, but never mind the longjmp. >3. Register for DestroyNotify on all the windows returned from > XQueryTree. ... Too hard.... ",5 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu writes: | If you are paying for a phone, and you don't want call-waiting, YOU DON'T | NEED TO PAY FOR CALl-WAITING. [...] | If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT | ""abortion coverage"" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED | to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction | coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage). Why the hell would somebody named ""Dennis"" be paying for abortion coverage at all? Why aren't you also complaining that you want your insurance premiums reduced because you won't be needing that pap smear coverage? Followups restricted to the appropriate newsgroup. --- C J Silverio cj@sgi.com ceej@well.sf.ca.us ""In Melbourne, Fla., meanwhile, anti-abortion marchers rallied to celebrate the death of Dr. David Gunn. ""Praise God!"" they shouted."" (NY Daily News, Fri. March 12, p. 20) ",19 "Re: TRUE ""GLOBE"", Who makes it? bill@xpresso.UUCP (Bill Vance) writes: >It has been known for quite a while that the earth is actually more pear >shaped than globular/spherical. Does anyone make a ""globe"" that is accurate >as to actual shape, landmass configuration/Long/Lat lines etc.? >Thanks in advance. Even if they did, a globe at a scale that you could fit into your average room or even average ""hall"" the deviations you mention would not be visually evident. In other words a micrometer would be required to test the fact that the Globe was infact pear-shaped. Regards Scott. _______________________________________________________________________________ Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au] PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272). _--_|\ N Department of Psychology / \ W + E University of Western Australia. Perth [32S, 116E]--> *_.--._/ S Nedlands, 6009. PERTH, W.A. v *** ERROR 144 - REBOOT? is a registered trademark of ENSONIQ Corp *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",14 "Re: Question???? In article <1r25ldINN9rp@frigate.cis.ohio-state.edu> fields@cis.ohio-state.edu (jonathan david fields) writes: >This is probably a stupid question but as I am new to the motorcycle scene >I don't really know anything about it. What is DoD? This has to be a setup. Lookit--same site as Arnie Skurow. Later, -- Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. ",8 "Re: The arrogance of Christians vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.) writes: > I just thought I'd share some words that I received in a letter > from Moody Bible Institute a couple of months ago. The words are by > James M. Stowell, the president of MBI. > > ""The other day, I was at the dry cleaner and the radio was playing. > It caught my attention because a talk show guest was criticizing evangelical > Christians, saying we believe in absolutes and think we are the only ones > who know what the absolutes are. > > ""He missed the point. No, IMO, Mr. Stowell missed the point. > ""We affirm the absolutes of Scripture, not because we are arrogant > moralists, but because we believe in God who is truth, who has revealed His > truth in His Word, and therefore we hold as precious the strategic importance > of those absolutes."" Mr. Stowell seems to have jumped rather strangely from truth to absolutes. I don't see how that necessarily follows. Are all truths also absolutes? Is all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)? If the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can explain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and which truths are absolutes. And, who is qualified to make these determinations? There is hardly consensus, even in evangelical Christianity (not to mention the rest of Christianity) regarding Biblical interpretation. I find Mr. Stowell's statement terribly simple-minded. Carol Alvin caralv@auto-trol.com ",15 "Re: Sphere from 4 points? In article <1qkgbuINNs9n@shelley.u.washington.edu> bolson@carson.u.washington.edu (Edward Bolson) writes: >Boy, this will be embarassing if it is trivial or an FAQ: > >Given 4 points (non coplanar), how does one find the sphere, that is, >center and radius, exactly fitting those points? I know how to do it >for a circle (from 3 points), but do not immediately see a >straightforward way to do it in 3-D. I have checked some >geometry books, Graphics Gems, and Farin, but am still at a loss? >Please have mercy on me and provide the solution? Wouldn't this require a hyper-sphere. In 3-space, 4 points over specifies a sphere as far as I can see. Unless that is you can prove that a point exists in 3-space that is equi-distant from the 4 points, and this may not necessarily happen. Correct me if I'm wrong (which I quite possibly am!) steve --- -- +---------------------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Steven Collins | email: steve@crl.hitachi.co.jp | | Visiting Computer Graphics Researcher | phone: (0423)-23-1111 | | Hitachi Central Research Lab. Tokyo. | fax: (0423)-27-7742 | ",1 "Re: Turkey-Cyprus-Bosnia-Serbia-Greece (Armenia-Azeris) In article <1993Apr20.143453.3127@news.uiowa.edu> mau@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Mau Napoleon) writes: >Instabul was called Konstantinoupolis from 320 AD until about the 1920s. >That's about 1600 years. There many people alive today who were born in >a city called Konstantinoupolis. I know it doesn't make sense, but since when is 'Napoleon' about sense, anyway? Further striking bigoted and racist attitude of certain Greeks still exists in our day. Most Greeks insist even today, that the 537 year-old capital of the Ottoman Empire should be called not by its rightful name of Istanbul, but by its half a millennium-old moniker 'Cons*(whatever).' Everyone knows that New York City was once called 'New Amsterdam' but Dutch people do not persist on calling it that today. The name of Stalingrad too is long gone, replaced by Volgagrad. China's Peking traded its name for Beiging long ago. Ciudad Trujillo of the Dominican Republic is now Santa Domingo. Zimbabve's old colonial capital Salisburry became Harrare. These changes have all been accepted officially by everyone in the world. But, Greeks are still determined on calling the Turkish Istanbul by the name of 'Cons*.' How can one explain this total intransigence? What makes Greeks so different from other mortals? 18-year-old questionable democracy? Why don't they seem to reconcile with the fact, for instance, that Istanbul changed hands 537 years ago in 1453 AD, and that this predates the discovery of the New World, by 39 years. The declaration of U.S. independence in 1776 will come 284 years later. Shouldn't then, half a millennium be considered enough time for 'Cons*' to be called a Turkish city? Where is the logic in the Greek reasoning, if there is any? How long can one sit on the laurels of an ancient civilization? Ancient Greece does not exist, any more than any other 16 civilizations that existed on the soil of Anatolia. These undereducated 'wieneramus' live with an illusion. It is the same mentality which allows them to rationalize that Cyprus is a Greek Island. No history book shows that it ever was. It belonged to the Ottoman Turks 'lock, stock and barrel' for a period of well over 300 years. In fact, prior to the Turks' acquisition of it, following bloody naval battles with the Venetians in 1570 AD, the island of Cyprus belonged, invariably, to several nations: The Assyrians, the Sumerians, the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, the Ottoman Turks, of course in that order, owned it as their territory. But, it has never been the possession of the government of Greece - not even for one day - in the history of the world. Moreover, Cyprus is located 1500 miles from the Greek mainland, but only 40 miles from Turkiye's southern coastline. Saddam Hussein claims that Kuwait was once Iraqi territory and the Greek Cypriot government and the terrorist Greek governments think that Cyprus also was once part of the Greek hegemony. Those 'Arromdians' involved in this grandiose hallucination should wake up from their sweet daydreams and confront reality. Again, wishful thinking is unproductive, only facts count. As for Selanik, <> <> [47] Robert Mantran, 'La structure sociale de la communaute juive de Salonqiue a la fin du dix-neuvieme siecle', RH no.534 (1980), 391-92; Nehama VII, 762; Joseph Nehama (Salonica) to AIU (Paris) no.2868/2, 12 May 1903 (AIU Archives I-C-43); and no.2775, 10 January 1900 (AIU Archives I-C-41), describing daily battles between Jewish and Greek children in the streets of Salonica. Benghiat, Director of Ecole Moise Allatini, Salonica, to AIU (Paris), no.7784, 1 December 1909 (AIU Archives I-C-48), describing Greek attacks on Jews, boycotts of Jewish shops and manufacturers, and Greek press campaigns leading to blood libel attacks. Cohen, Ecole Secondaire Moise Allatini, Salonica, to AIU (Paris), no.7745/4, 4 December 1912 (AIU Archives I-C-49) describes a week of terror that followed the Greek army occupation of Salonica in 1912, with the soldiers pillaging the Jewish quarters and destroying Jewish synagogues, accompanied by what he described as an 'explosion of hatred' by local Greek population against local Jews and Muslims. Mizrahi, President of the AIU at Salonica, reported to the AIU (Paris), no.2704/3, 25 July 1913 (AIU Archives I-C-51) that 'It was not only the irregulars (Comitadjis) that massacred, pillaged and burned. The Army soldiers, the Chief of Police, and the high civil officials also took an active part in the horrors...', Moise Tovi (Salonica) to AIU (Paris) no.3027 (20 August 1913) (AIU Archives I-C-51) describes the Greek pillage of the Jewish quarter during the night of 18-19 August 1913. (AIU = Alliance Israelite Universelle, Paris.) Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >In article <1qid8s$ik0@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis >Kriz) wrote: >> The most recent reason given by the Clinton Administration for >> calling for federally funded abortions is that many private >> health insurance programs offer coverage for abortion. > >> The following are two form letters regarding this. Please send >> them around to friends as well as other BBSs > >""Just sign it and send it, sonny, don't read the fine print. Just >sign it, sonny! :-). > >Cheers, >Kent >--- >sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. Well you know that you're getting somewhere, when you start getting responses like this. Kent, let me explain it to you. If you are paying for a phone, and you don't want call-waiting, YOU DON'T NEED TO PAY FOR CALl-WAITING. This whole Clinton induced abortion debate SHOULD begin to make NARAL nervous, because it has exposed a real scam. If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT ""abortion coverage"" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage). A full third of the country flatly considers abortion to be murder for reasons of conscience. If the first amendment means ANYTHING at all anymore, then these people should NOT be COMPELLED to PAY for ""abortion coverage"" if it is so OBVIOUSLY offensive to their beliefs. Or are we going to start forcing Jews to eat pork, Quakers to fight in wars, etc? No one should be COMPELLED to sign a defacto ""loyalty oath"" in support of abortion in order to gain access to health care, ESPECIALLY if one's conscience is so obviously against the practice (of abortion). dennis dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu PS Sure read through the two short form letters I posted at the beginning of this post. I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. ",19 "Mormon beliefs about bastards Could anyone enlighten me on how the Mormon church views children born out of wedlock? In particular I'm interested to know if any stigma is attached to the children as opposed to the parents. I'm especially keen to learn if there is or is not any prohibition in the Mormon faith on bastards entering heaven or having their names entered in the big genealogical book the Mormons keep in Salt Lake City. If this is an issue on which the ""official"" position has changed over time, I'm interested in learning both old and new beliefs. E-mail or posting is fine. All information or pointers are appreciated. Elliotte Rusty Harold Department of Mathematics elharo@shiva.njit.edu New Jersey Institute of Technology erh0362@tesla.njit.edu Newark, NJ 07102 ",15 "Re: BATF/FBI Murders Almost Everyone in Waco Today! 4/19 In article <1993Apr20.195636.17742@guinness.idbsu.edu>, betz@gozer.idbsu.edu (Andrew Betz) writes: > -- > betz@gozer.idbsu.edu > *** brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho *** > *** when you outlaw rights, only outlaws will have rights *** > *** spook fodder: fema, nsa, clinton, gore, insurrection, nsc, > semtex, neptunium, terrorist, cia, mi5, mi6, kgb, deuterium If you really want to trigger the scanners then move the keywords above the -- signature start bit... You'll only trip them once in a sig (plus every so often it will flag one for human intervention just to be sure) I might not be being serious. -- Alan Greig Janet: A.Greig@uk.ac.dct Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: A.Greig@dct.ac.uk Tel: (0382) 308810 (Int +44 382 308810) ** Never underestimate the power of human stupidity ** ",16 "Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx? In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes: > > flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed > > Usually, it also equals ""boxer,"" however, I think the term is > traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters). > This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember > the consensus. > > Examples: > > Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer. > Porsche's 911 is a flat 6. > Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4. > > Regards, > > Brian > BMWs boxer twin! (no two wheelers here?) Been around since 1923. I think the other examples are Johnny come latelies... I may be wrong so no flames please.. Jeff Goss ",7 "Re: Biosphere II In <1q77ku$av6@access.digex.net> Pat writes: >The Work is privately funded, the DATA belongs to SBV. I don't see >either george or Fred, scoriating IBM research division for >not releasing data. We publish plenty kiddo,you just have to look. ----------------------------------------------------------------- .sig files are like strings ... every yo-yo's got one. Greg Nicholls ... nicho@vnet.ibm.com (business) or nicho@olympus.demon.co.uk (private) ",14 "Re: FLASH - SALAMEH not ARAB! In article <1993Apr5.194541.27176@Virginia.EDU> jac2y@Virginia.EDU (""Jonathan A. Cook "") writes: >nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM writes: >> It is getting ridiculous. You are breaking the article into two lines >> increments making it hard to respond to. You must be logical to do that, >> right? I am going to briefly answer to some of your silly comments. > >Silly describes your rejoinders perfectly. > I did not get this one. >> Don't put words in my mouth, The invasion of Kuwait is illegal and I >> condemned it. The Support for Saddam from some of the Arabs came later after >> the confrontation with the West started, it was not because he occupied >> Kuwait, it was for his confrontation with the West. > >Agreed. > >> Oh no you scared me, I did not mean to say that. Listen you fool, Haifa >> is my fathers land. If I support peace this means that I am willing to >> give up part of Palestine for peace not because I just realized that >> Haifa belongs to your parents. > >Fine, land for peace. Where does that leave us? Note that >maybe, theoretically, Morocco can be my 'father's land.' Does that >give me the right to pre-empt King Hassan automatically? > It leaves us with peace. If Morocco is your father's land then you have the right to live there, absolutely. >Jon, jac2y@virginia.edu Nabil ",18 "Re: Laser vs Bubblejet? FYI: The actual horizontal dot placement resoution of an HP deskjet is 1/600th inch. The electronics and dynamics of the ink cartridge, however, limit you to generating dots at 300 per inch. On almost any paper, the ink wicks more than 1/300th inch anyway. The method of depositing and fusing toner of a laster printer results in much less spread than ink drop technology. It doesn't take much investigation to see that the mechanical and electronic complement of a laser printer is more complex than inexpensive ink jet printers. Recall also that laser printers offer a much higher throughput: 10 ppm for a laser versus about 1 ppm for an ink jet printer. Something else to think about is the cost of consumables over the life of the printer. A 3000 page yield toner cartridge is about $US 75-80 at discount while HP high capacity (~500-1000 page yield) cartridges are about $US 22 at discount. It could be that over the life cycle of the printer that consumables for laser printers are less than ink jet printers. It is getting progressively closer between the two technologies. Laser printers are usually desinged for higher duty cycles in pages per month and longer product replacement cycles. -- Bill Mayhew NEOUCOM Computer Services Department Rootstown, OH 44272-9995 USA phone: 216-325-2511 wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (140.220.1.1) 146.580: N8WED ",12 "Re: Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) and HP DeskJet 500... >thomas.d.fellrath.1@nd.edu@nd.edu wrote: >: The key issue that I bought my BJ-200 on was ink drying speed. I was at the Trenton Computer Fest and there were many sources of ink refills for the HP and Canon, so if you don't like the ink you're using, you have a choice. There is a Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) list that's reposted occasionally that reports how to refill the cartridges yourself with inks that are available from the stationery store instead of a ""specialty"" ink with the specialty price. I'm not sure, but I think I found another legal source of cheap hypos for injecting ink into the cartridges. More on that when my mail order succeeds. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix.com ",2 "Re: Jewish Baseball Players? In article <1993Apr16.172502.21766@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes: >In article <1993Apr16.122649.22938@husc3.harvard.edu> fry@zariski.harvard.edu (David Fry) writes: > >>Once, on Jeopardy, the category was ""Jewish Sports Heros,"" believe it >>or not. The answer was, ""This pitcher had four no-hitters with the >>Dodgers in the 60s."" The contestant said, ""Who is Hank Aaron?"" Alex >>Trebek said something like, ""I don't think Hank Aaron was a pitcher."" > >Well, it *is* a Jewish name... > >8-) > >Roger That's right. Remember Hank Greenberg??!! ",9 "Re: MLB = NBA? In article , kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes: |> |> There is absolutely, positively, quite verifiably, NO causation that runs |> from salaries to ticket prices. The two are separable decisions. The |> owners do not raise ticket prices to recoup costs; they raise ticket prices |> because demand for seats has risen. (Wish I had bold type for that ""NO"".) |> |> For more evidence, please come to my Intro to Econ course, somewhere around |> lecture four: Sunk Costs, Opportunity Costs, Marginal Costs. Right on. Ticket prices are set to maximize revenue. Period. For an excellent discussion on how this works, see Gerald Scully's book of a couple of years back, titled (I think) ""The Business Of Baseball"". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511 home: 3006 NW McKinley Corvallis, OR 97330 (503)-752-8424 A SABR member since 1979 ",9 "Re: Waco Burnout In article <20APR199308471949@rigel.tamu.edu>, mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes: > In article , visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes... > > > I can't wait for the investigation. Considering that everyone > >is dead now and the place is burnt to the ground, I guess ""honest citizens"" > >will just have to take the word of the ATF about how much of a ""threat"" > >these people were. > > Just look at the history of Koresh and his folowers. They captured > the Mount Carmel complex a few yearss ago in a gun battle with a > rival BD sect, leaving more than one person dead. They weren't > exactly the most peace loving bunch. Koresh & some of his followers were tried and found *innocent* of all charges following that shootout. Were you unaware of this or did you purposly leave out this fact? -- Russ Anderson | Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect ------------------ upon my employer or anyone else. (c) 1993 EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!) ",18 "Re: Mel Hall warped@cs.montana.edu writes: > > Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season? I'd heard he wasn't > with the Yankees any more. What happened to him? > > Doug Dolven Japan, I think. ",9 "Re: Long term Human Missions jgladu@bcm.tmc.edu (grungy) writes: >ward@pashosh.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il (Ward Paul) wrote: >> >1. Calculators >> >2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan) >> >3. Pacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988) >> >> I don't think touting contributions is a good idea. World War II produced >> many many beneficial spinoffs. Eg. Radar, jet aeroplanes, rocket technology. >> I don't think anyone would argue that World War II was, in and of itself, >> a good thing. >> >> If you want people to back the space program it must be a good thing in >> and of itself. >I disagree with what to tout, although I agree that the space program is >inherently a good thing. Most people today only care about ""what will it >cost me?"" and ""what's in it for me?"" and could care less about whether >something is simply worthwhile in and of itself. Our society has become >increasingly geared toward the short-term (which you could read as NOW!). >They couldn't care less about next week, much less next century. They want >something to show for the expenditure and they want it *now*. I think to some extent this is a case of stooping to their level. You assume that the general public ""can't handle the truth"" and then, based on this assumption, go for the fluff arguments. Then someone, who can understand a good argument, comes along and asks ""why don't you just develop the spinoffs?"" or ""why can't we just get our spinoffs from some other program, like the military?"" There are some good arguments for space development without relying on its side effects. I'm not ignoring the value of spinoffs. I simply think that the general public deserves more credit than you give them. >BTW: don't forget Velcro... And if you're going to use spinoffs you better make darn sure you are right. Teflon has been around since before NASA. As I understand it, Velcro was conceptualized by a french doctor who went walking in the woods and took the trouble to wonder how burrs stick to your clothes. Certainly velcro was available on hiking equipment by the early to mid sixties. I would need to see some good evidence before I believe that either of these would not be here today without NASA. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ""Find a way or make one."" -attributed to Hannibal ",14 "How universal are phones these days? I'm wondering if I can tote my American touch tone phone around with me to Sweden and Germany. It's DC powered, and I can buy a special adapter for that in Europe. The question is if the general electronics work the same. I can buy a different wall plug and refit it (I'm sure I'd have to), but would that do the trick? Thanks, Hugo ",12 "Re: What octane ? jnmoyne@lbl.gov (Jean-Noel Moyne) writes: : How do you know what kind of gas to buy ? Depending on the compression : ratio of your engine I heard. Ok, but what kind of gas goes for what kind : of compression. : : I'm asking this because I used to put 87 in my Hawk GT and the other day, : I changed because I wanted to see if there was a difference. And I don't : know if I'm being subjective or what, but it seems like the bike runs : better ! : Run your bike on the lowest octane that it will run smoothly on. Higher octane fuel is not ""better"" than lower octane gas. Pick up the last American Roadracing magazine. There's a short article in there about octane and the misconceptions many people make about the subject. Look at your owners manual. I believe it states 87 is just fine. ============================================================================== Erik Astrup AFM #422 DoD #683 1993 CBR 900RR * 1990 CBR 600 * 1990 Concours * 1990 Ninja 250 ""This one goes to eleven"" - Nigel Tufnel, lead guitar, Spinal Tap ============================================================================== ",8 "Color palette for 256 color VGA rainbow Does anybody out there have or know how to calculate the RGB values required to set the 256 color VGA palette so that the colors from 0..255 will give 256 colors of the rainbow ie red, orange, yellow, etc. Any help would be appreciated. Please email to eeerik@cc.newcastle.edu.au Erik de Castro Lopo, Dept. Electrical & Computer Eng., Uni. of Newcastle, Australia. ",1 "Re: OTO, the Ancient Order of Oriental Templars In a previous article, shades@sorinc.cutler.com (Darrin A. Hyrup) says: >They [Thelema Lodge] don't have an internet address, but they do have a CIS >address which can be reached via uucp/internet. It is 72105,1351 so I guess >that would be '72105.1351@cis.com' or something like that. > ......@compuserve.com Tony ",19 "Re: modems and noisy lines. I used to have a lot of line noise problems with my 1200 baud modem. What was sudgested to me was to put a toriod transformer on the line. This is easily done by getting a large toroid core from your local electronics shop, a toroid core is a ceramic/metal ""donut"", and wind the telephone line in through the center of the core and out around the ouTside five or six times. This is a easy and cheap fix that does not have the hassels of having to use sofware to fix a hardware problem. talk to yah later. mark. mark.zander@sheridanc.on.ca ",3 "Need info on 88-89 Bonneville I am a little confused on all of the models of the 88-89 bonnevilles. I have heard of the LE SE LSE SSE SSEI. Could someone tell me the differences are far as features or performance. I am also curious to know what the book value is for prefereably the 89 model. And how much less than book value can you usually get them for. In other words how much are they in demand this time of year. I have heard that the mid-spring early summer is the best time to buy. Neil Gandler ",7 "Re: Secret algorithm [Re: Clipper Chip and crypto key-escrow] In article strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > > >Though I share many of the concerns expressed by some, I find the proposal >less threatening than many others, since right now most Americans have no >secure telephony, and any jerk with a pair of clip leads and a ""goat"" can >eavesdrop. This would also plug up the security hole in cellular and >cordless phones. > Oh great. Wonderful news. Nobody can listen in--except the feds. You believe that the feds offer the least threat to liberty of anyone, and I'm sure I do too. Glad that jerk won't be tapping my phone anymore. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ John Hesse | A man, jhesse@netcom.com | a plan, Moss Beach, Calif | a canal, Bob. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",11 "Re: Adams Division Race In article <1993Apr2.175052.22810@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, breton@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Pierre Breton) writes: > > > The Adams division race is certainly interesting this year. Here are > important data to keep in mind in the eventuality of a tie for a given > standing position. > > In head to head games: > Quebec wins over Montreal, 4-3-0; > Boston leads against Quebec, 3-1-1 with two games remaining; > Montreal and Boston are tied, 4-4-0 with one game remaining. > > (..) Pierre Breton (aka Fluide Glacial) Pierre, For purposes of the tie breaker, you only count the first three games in each city. Therefore, Quebec cannot possibly be ahead of Montreal 4-3, and there's probably only one game that counts remaining between Boston and Quebec, which means Boston has probably already won. pete clark - rsh FLYERS contact ",10 "FOR SALE: Old JAZZ magazines The following jazz magazines will go for the best OFFER received. Shipping not included, these are pretty heavy. Of course if you are local (Mass, USA) you can come get 'em in person. All are in GREAT condition!! These will go as one lot. I will not break them up. Metronome - Sep 1947, Feb 1948, June 1948, Nov 1950, Dec 1950, June 1952 Nov 1953 Downbeat - Jan 15,1947 (was newspaper sized..folded) Jan 18,1962, Feb 15,1962, Dec 19,1963, Mar 12,1964, Apr 9,1964, May 7,1964, May 21,1964, Jun 4,1964, Jul 16,1964, Sep 10,1964, Dec 17,1964, Dec 31,1964, Aug 26,1965, Oct 7,1965, Oct 21,1965, Dec 16,1965, Dec 30,1965, Jan 13,1966, Apr 21,1966, Jul 28,1966, Sep 8,1966, Dec 29,1966, Feb 9,1967, Feb 23,1967, Jun 15,1967, Nov 15,1967, Apr 4,1968, Aug 8,1968, Sep 5,1968, Oct 3,1968, Oct 31,1968, Feb 6,1969, Mar 6,1969, May 15,1969, Jun 12,1969, Jul 10,1969, Jul 24,1969, Aug 21,1969, Sep 4,1969, Dec 2,1969, May 14,1970, May 28,1970, Jun 11,1970, Jun 25,1970, Jul 9,1970, Aug 19,1971, Mar 15,1973, Mar 29,1973, May 10,1973, May 24,1973, Nov 1985 Also I will toss in (free): Jazz Journal (Feb 1979,Apr 1979) and CODA Magazine (Jun 1985, Dec 1985) arthur_noguerola@vos.stratus.com ",6 "Re: PHILS, NL EAST NOT SO WEAK In article , kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) says: > Or you may be posting this WAY TOO EARLY and be eating your words by > mid-season. C'mon, the Phillies haven't proved anything yet. Atlanta > was similar to the Phils 2 years ago. They sucked. They started having The Phillies finished third 2 years ago. > the Braves really are. Their record is 6-3. Can you imagine the Phils > record if they were batting .188? hahahaha. And Atlanta's hitting will > improve dramatically. The Phillies' opponents haven't hit much better Eat our words or not, forgive us. The true fans in Philly have been through a lot...:) -John ",9 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1r2m21$8mo@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: >In article <1993Apr19.151902.21216@st-andrews.ac.uk>, nrp@st-andrews.ac.uk (Norman R. Paterson) writes: ... >|> >You're admitting a lot more than that. You are admitting that >|> >your morals are situational. You are admitting that the actions >|> >of other people and the situation you are in help to determine >|> >how you judge the moral significance of one of your own actions. ... >|> >For what it's worth - and yes, I know you claim to be an agnostic - >|> >it's this ability to re-label things from ""immoral"" to ""moral"" >|> >that I find one of the *least* attractive qualities of the religious >|> >mind. >|> > >|> >jon. ... >|> From my reading I discovered that this is not yet possible, and may not be >|> possible in principle. The reason is that every case that comes to trial >|> is unique, with its own collection of special facts. It is beyond human >|> power to specify all the possible circumstances that may bear upon a case >|> in advance. We have to judge each one on its own merits, and simply take >|> the formal law as a guide. The law is an ass: we must be careful to use >|> it as a beast of burden and not expect anything more from it. ... >|> -Norman > >Just as well, then, that I'm not claiming that my own moral system is >absolute. > >jon. > >[list of references stretching from here to Alpha Centauri deleted.] Jon- [and I thought to impress with my references!] Ok, so you don't claim to have an absolute moral system. Do you claim to have an objective one? I'll assume your answer is ""yes,"" apologies if not. ""Objective"" means is that different observers will get the same results. The observers may need to be trained in the use of the system. I'd be interested in seeing a summary of your system, though I appreciate that it might take a great deal of effort to put it in writing. In your post above you objected to ""situational morals."" Perhaps you could begin by explaining how you objectively set the situational boundaries of an act, in your system. I don't think you can do it. Here's a game we could play that would illustrate my point. I think of a situation, and you have to say whether it is moral or not, and why. In your move you can 1) Ask me any objective question about the situation, or 2) Pronounce judgement. After you have pronounced judgement, I get to add whatever context I like to the situation, provided I don't change anything I have already said. If I can change the context to one where your objective system would give a different answer, then your system is faulty. (Since I don't know what your system is, either you must write it down, or at least be consistent.) Do you think your system could pass this test? -Norman ",19 "Re: How much should I pay for a SCSI cable (with 3 or 4 connectors)? In danj@hub.parallan.com (Dan Jones) writes: | > >Also, I seem to remember a posting saying that the SCSI spec calls for | > >1 foot between devices on the cable, but most cables you get (internal) | > >don't meet the spec. | | SCSI II Draft Proposal, Rev. 10h, Section 4.2.1: Single-Ended | cable, which is in the Cable Requirements Section, has an | implementor's note: "" Stub clustering should be avoided. Stubs | should be spaced at least 0.3 meters apart."" | | For the non-technical, stubs are SCSI devices. :-) However, also be aware that Implementor's notes are basicly recommendations, they are *NOT* part of the spec. As others have noted, many vendors (including SGI) violate this. Indeed, the main point is to reduce impedance changes, and therefore reflections, and therefore 'noise' on the bus. -- Let no one tell me that silence gives consent, | Dave Olson because whoever is silent dissents. | Silicon Graphics, Inc. Maria Isabel Barreno | olson@sgi.com ",3 "MLB Scores Correction There is a correction to the note I posted for today's update: This is how it read: > NOTE: Saturday, April 20th's scores should be sent out by this coming Friday. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Of course, last Saturday was April 17th. People who requested those scores should receive them by Friday the 23rd. Thanks. Joe Hernandez -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Hernandez | RAMS | | /.\ ******* _|_|_ / | LAKERS jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU | KINGS | |__ | | DODGERS _|_|_ | | RAIDERS jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU | ANGELS |____||_|_| ******* | | |___| CLIPPERS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",9 "cents keystroke ? where is it why does my keyboard not have a cents key ? | C | like to have my 2 cents worth or $ 0.02 (boaring) -David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= China Cat BBS c-cat!david@sed.csc.com (301)604-5976 1200-14,400 8N1 ...uunet!mimsy!anagld!c-cat!david =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",3 "Re: U.S. Government and Science and Technolgy Investment It should be noted that the US benefitted not only from German science and technology after WW2 but also from British science and technology. From the discovery and manufacture of penicillin to jet engines, swing wing aircraft, the hovercraft etc etc. all were shipped lock-stick-and-barel across the Atlantic. We still are suffering from this sort of thing because of some of the more parochial aspects of US procurement policy. Meiko, a British parallel computer company, for example, has now moved most of its facilities to the US since that was the only way it could sell stuff over there. -- ================================================================================ Dave Clements, Oxford University Astrophysics Department ================================================================================ clements @ uk.ac.ox.vax | Umberto Eco is the *real* Comte de dlc @ uk.ac.ox.astro | Saint Germain... ================================================================================ ",14 "Re: Happy Easter! In article <1993Apr19.154020.24818@i88.isc.com>, jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes: |> In article <2514@tekgen.bv.tek.com> davet@interceptor.cds.tek.com (Dave Tharp CDS) writes: |> >In article <1993Apr15.171757.10890@i88.isc.com> jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes: |> >>Rolls-Royce owned by a non-British firm? |> >> |> >>Ye Gods, that would be the end of civilization as we know it. |> > |> > Why not? Ford owns Aston-Martin and Jaguar, General Motors owns Lotus |> >and Vauxhall. Rover is only owned 20% by Honda. |> |> Yes, it's a minor blasphemy that U.S. companies would on the likes of A.M., |> Jaguar, or (sob) Lotus. It's outright sacrilege for RR to have non-British |> ownership. It's a fundamental thing I think there is a legal clause in the RR name, regardless of who owns it it must be a British company/owner - i.e. BA can sell the company but not the name. kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch ",8 "Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series In article <1993Apr14.081214.3921@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes: >>>>>second basemen in history. He probably didn't even have as good a season as >>>>>Alomar last year. >>> >>>Guess which line is which: >>> BA OBP SLG AB H 2B 3B HR BB >>>X .310 .405 .427 571 177 27 8 8 87 >>>Y .312 .354 .455 657 205 32 1 20 35 >> >>>The walks should give it away. OBP's, in general, somewhat more valuable than >>>slugging, and Alomar's edge in OBP was quite a bit larger than Baerga's edge >>>in slugging. >> >>I'm no SDCN, but what's more valuable: >> >>28 hits w/5 more doubles, 12 more HRs OR >>7 more triples and 52 BBs? (Let's not forget the 39 extra SBs. How many CS?) > >Of course the 28 hits and 12 homers are more valuable. > >But don't forget the 58 outs. You can't have it both ways; Baerga's higher >raw numbers are due to him having more playing time, and thus he had more >hits and homers, but don't forget the cost of those outs. > >(BTW, just to answer your question, Alomar had 49 SB and 9 CS; Baerga had >10 SB and 2 CS, which gives a minute plus on Alomar's side.) Something else to consider: Alomar's H-R splits were .500-.363 SLG, .444-.369 OBP! Baerga's was .486-.424 and .392-.318. Pretty clearly, Alomar got a HUGE boost from his home park. I'd say you could make a good for them being about equal right now. T&P rated Baerga higher, actually. Mike -- Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w :q :wq :wq! ^d ^X ^? exit X Q ^C ^? :quitbye CtrlAltDel ~~q :~q logout save/quit :!QUIT ^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^vi man vi ^@ ^L ^[c ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help helpquit ^D ^d !! man help ^C ^c :e! help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel ""Hey, what does Stop L1A d..."" ",9 "Re: Why are we being censored in a free America? This node specificaly In article <1993Apr23.072224.13478@mixcom.mixcom.com> you write: # # Which Article of the Constitution gives me the right of revolution if things # seem to be going cockeyed?? # # Hmmm... # -- # Peter G. White, President, Synthesis 93 Inc. # Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A. # Peter.White@mixcom.com This is rather simple, actually ... Having just been through a revolution, our founding fathers well understood the relationship between We the People and a govern- ment of, by and for the people. They also understood that any government of the People can sometimes grow to become a govern- ment not ""by"" the People or not ""for"" the People. This is how they chose to handle all of the possibilities: 2nd Amendment A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. This is the ONLY part of the Constitution which gives us the right of revolution if things seem to be going cockeyed. All that's really necessary is an organized march on Washington, just have everyone bring their arms. Obviously the 2nd is an important right, a right which many Americans do not fully appreciate. Hope this helps, Ray. -- Ray.Lampman@FullFeed.Com ,^-_ FullFeed provides public access to FullFeed Communications L `; Usenet news and E-mail, plus UUCP Madison, WI 53704, USA \ . J connections to the Madison area voice +1 608 246 4239 L__] data +1 608 246 2701 login guest ",11 "Re: Atheist's views on Christianity (was: Re: ""Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."") In article trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes: > Well, then, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism, > Zoerasterism, Shintoism, and Islam should fit this bit of logic > quite nicely... :-) All have depth, all have enduring values, > thus all must be true... Yep. There's truth in all those religions, even in science. Christianity doesn't claim to know it all. It does claim certain things are true though that contradict other religions' truth claims. So they can't all be true. ------------------------------------------------------------ Rob Steele In coming to understand anything MIT Lincoln Laboratory we are rejecting the facts as they 244 Wood St., M-203 are for us in favour of the facts Lexington, MA 02173 as they are. 617/981-2575 C.S. Lewis ",15 "Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!! In article <1993Apr13.093300.29529@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes: > >""Weight rebound"" is a term used in the medical literature on >obesity to denote weight regain beyond what was lost in a diet >cycle. There are any number of terms which mean one thing to Can you provide a reference to substantiate that gaining back the lost weight does not constitute ""weight rebound"" until it exceeds the starting weight? Or is this oral tradition that is shared only among you obesity researchers? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Young Catchers >mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said: > >>Most catchers need to be solid defensively players to help their >>clubs in the bigs. Those are the arguments against Lopez for the >>Braves for this year. >>Now. The Braves have two catchers who have demonstrated solid >>abilities to call games, to work with the pitchers, to throw out >>runners. This is the crux of the argument (to me at least). Both the SDCN and the non-SDCN camps seem to agree on the fact that a catcher's defense is basically nonmeasurable at present. You can talk about how important calling a game is, or framing the pitches, or blocking balls in the dirt. But there is little or no way to tell exactly how various catcher's rank in ""defense"". Looking at Lopez specifically; is there any reason to suspect that he is a bad defensive catcher other then the fact that the Braves (or the media) has labeled him a bad defensive catcher? As far as I can tell he doesn't have any particular problem in his mechanics (such as Sasser). He might be a little rough around the edges in blocking the ball, or framing the pitch to get a good call but all he needs to clear that up is playing and practice time. I can't see how repetitions at AAA are any better then reps in the majors! All we're left with is the calling the game aspect. Olsen and Berryhill at always given credit for calling good games and helping the pitchering staff. But this is a reputation that is given to almost all veteran catchers. How is catching at AAA going to help Lopez learn the major league pitching staff? The only way any catcher is going to learn Tom Glavine's pitches is to catch Tom Glavine. Similarly, I wouldn't be supprised if the pitcher's claimed to prefer pitching to Olsen over pitching to Lopez because they are used to pitching to Olsen. But given time they will say they are comfortable with Lopez. Now, since Lopez can't learn how to handle the major league pitcher's while he's in AAA and since he doesn't have any glaring problem in his mechanics, what is he going to learn in AAA that he can't learn just as well while in the majors? Dave __________ Dave Bonar mebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu __________ ",9 "Glutamate In article sher@bbn.com (Lawrence D. Sher) writes: > From the N.E.J.Med. editorial: ""The dicarboxylic amino acid glutamate > is not only an essential amino acid ... Glutamate is not an essential amino acid. People can survive quite well without ever eating any. -- Keith Lynch, kfl@access.digex.com f p=2,3:2 s q=1 x ""f f=3:2 q:f*f>p!'q s q=p#f"" w:q p,?$x\8+1*8 ",13 "Re: LCIII or used IIci - which should I get? In article <1993Apr24.232542.6070@cheshire.oxy.edu> erik@cheshire.oxy.edu (Erik Adams) writes: >I am, at long last, going to replace my beloved 512ke. >I am looking at a new LC III and a used IIci. Prices >have yet to be worked out, so I'm just thinking right now >about their merits and drawbacks. I'd get the IIci. It's more expandable, just as fast, and preserves the option to run System 6. David Gutierrez drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu ""Only fools are positive."" - Moe Howard ",4 "Re: Drinking and Riding > > What is a general rule of thumb for sobriety and cycling? Couple hours after >you ""feel"" sober? What? Or should I just work with ""If I drink tonight, I >don't ride until tomorrow""? This thread brings back memorys of an expensive day in traffic court a few years ago. While I was waiting my turn to state my case and plea of why I was going 75 in a 55 in my cage, I had the opportunity to listen to some of the ""creative excuses"" offered the judge by others. After listening to a number of ""Well, I was passing a very slow truck that suddenly speed up"" versions, I decided that the judge had heard just about every story in the book and then some. He was less than impressed with any of them. This young, rather burley looking guy, had his docket read by a rather drill sargent looking Ohio State Highyway Patrol Trooper. He was clocked riding a motorcycle at a speed of 110 mph in a 55 mph zone. It was also noted that the defendant (motorcycle rider) had alcohol on his breath, but was not cited for this offence. The judge looked over his half glasses purched on the end of his nose and said in his sternest voice: ""Well son, those are some pretty fast speeds to be riding a motorcycle. What do you have to say for your self?"" ""Well Sir"", meekly the defenant replied, ""I just was over to my buddys and we had a couple of beers and I was on my way home."" He offered nothing more or less. Just had a couple of beers and was doing 110 mph on his way home. The judge moved by the simplicity of the response, fined him the maximum in this case (plus court costs of course) and ordered him to attend remedial drivers training school. Isn't America Great?? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Mohrman 81-CB900C Motorola , SPS Columbus, OH ------------------- Disclaimers Apply ------------------------------ ",8 "Re: > Re: > RE: 1024 x 768 video on Q800 --- adaptor pinouts > This does not make sence...why would the 4FG work but the 3FGx not > work...it is the > same monitor without accucolor and digital controls...works fine at > 1024x768 with > SVGA...what's the deal....anyway you can get a SVGA 14"" with .28mm and > 1024x7 68 > for $279 at Damark...are you saing that it probably would work while a > $600 NEC won't? The 3FGx has a maximum horizontal scan rate of 49KHz, so driving it at 60.24KHz to get 1024 x 768 on the Mac is WAY BEYOND the tolerance The 4FG is spec'ed at 57KHz, so going 60.24KHz is only 5-6% above the minimally guaranteed figure. I too doubt if the Damark monitor would sync to a Mac at 1024 x 768. Like most things, you get what you pay. That's the deal. -John Rutirasiri. P.S. I wouldn't have posted if I wasn't sure. ",4 "Re: Once they get your keys.... (alt.security.clipper added, to keep them informed of this issue) David Sternlight (strnlght@netcom.com) wrote: .... : The proposal could be modified so that if they get a court order to tap you : and don't charge you with a crime within, say, 90 days, they have to buy you : a new phone. : : If they do charge you, and you are found innocent, they have to buy you a : new phone. : : :-) Yes, but will they buy you a ticket on a time machine to allow you to go back and use the phone with the new key instead of the phone whose key they obtained? It is unclear whether obtaining the key at time 0 also unlocks messages recorded (by whomever) at earlier times. The announcement was silent on this. The betting seems to be that once your key has been obtained (by the authorities, by divorce lawyers, by the Mafia, by the FBI, by lost or stolen backup tapes, by the NSA, etc.). all previous conversations are unsecure. (Session keys are negotiated, but knowing the private key is believed by many commentators here to break the security. No doubt more details will emerge.) So, the loss of a key, whether one is guilty or innocent, may mean a lot more than merely replacing the phone. Sort of like saying to someone, ""Oh, I copied your diary. But I'll buy you a new one."" And the system, if made mandatory (as I expect), will make such storing of conversations much easier, I fear. For one thing, the transmission of the escrow key field acts as a clear signal to anyone listening, a kind of ""Caller ID"" and ""Callee ID"" on a grand scale. Also, the phone companies may not care as much about protecting the privacy of the calls, as they perceive them all to be useless encrypted junk. (This is a bit of a reach, I know, suggesting that the Clipper will make security more lax...). Anyway, still lots of issues unresolved. -Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. ",11 "[rw] Is Robert Weiss the only orthodox Christian? Robert, you keep making references to ""orthodox"" belief, and saying things like ""it is held that..."" (cf. ""Kermit"" thread). On what exact body of theology are you drawing for what you call ""orthodox?"" Who is that ""holds that"" Luke meant what you said he meant? Whenever your personal interpretation of Biblical passages is challenged, your only response seems to be that one needs merely to ""look at the Bible"" in order to see the truth, but what of those who see Biblical things differently from you? Are we to simply assume that you are the only one who really understands it? Just curious, -- Rick Anderson librba@BYUVM.BITNET ",19 "Re: NHL Team Captains In article K00WBM850Z5v@andrew.cmu.edu, am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anna Matyas) writes: > >Michael Collingridge writes: > >>And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded, >>resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other >>team captain trivia would be appreciated. > >Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to >Pittsburgh? > >Mom. Chris Chelios was Montreal's co-captain with Guy Carbonneau when he was traded to Chicago for Denis Savard, and Peter Stastny was captain of the Quebec Nordiques when he was traded to New-Jersey. Also Mark Messier was captain of the Edmonton Oilers when he was traded to New-York. How about Dale Hawerchuk with Winnipeg when he was traded to Buffalo, was he captain too ? I think so. I should not forget Wayne (you know who) when he was traded to L.A. he was captain. Didn't they strip Wendel Clark of his capta incy in Toronto ? Just some updates and thoughts. Cheer... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Piche (LMC/U/DET - Design) Ericsson Communications Inc. 8400 Decarie Blvd, 1rd floor Town of Mont Royal, Quebec. H4P 2N2 (514)-738-8300 ext. 2178. E-mail: LMCDAPI@LMC.ERICSSON.SE MEMOid: LMC.LMCDAPI CHEERS..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",10 "Randy Weaver trial update: Day 5. Note: These trial updates are summarized from reports in the _Idaho Statesman_ and the local NBC affiliate television station, KTVB Channel 7. Randy Weaver/Kevin Harris trial update: Day 5. Monday, April 19, 1993 was the fifth day of the trial. Synopsis: Government informant Kenneth Fadeley testified that Randy Weaver sold him two shotguns in violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asks jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case. The testimony of FBI Special Agent Greg Rampton apparently ended without further incident, as it was mentioned neither by KTVB nor the _Idaho Statesman_. The day was highlighted by the testimony of Kenneth Fadeley, who had been posing as an outlaw biker and illegal guns person named Gus Magiosono. Fadeley testified that he was acting as an informant for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms in his dealings with Randy Weaver. Fadeley began by stating that he had met Weaver in 1987 at an Aryan Nations summer conference in Hayden Lake, Idaho. The two then met again October 11, 1989 (note the huge separation in time) at a restaurant in Sandpoint, Idaho, to begin a weapons transaction. He stated that Weaver had said, ""He felt like he (Weaver) was being prepared to do something dangerous for the White cause."" The two later met October 24, 1989 behind the restaurant and later went to a city park to make the sale. During this second meeting, Fadeley was wearing a small recording device to tape the conversation. Weaver allegedly showed him an H&R 12- gauge shotgun with a 13-inch barrel and an overall length of 19.25 inches. He additionally showed a Remington 12-gauge shotgun with a 12.75-inch barrel and an overall length of 24.5 inches (NFA requires minimums of 18 inches for barrel length and an overall length of 26 inches). On tape, Weaver is reported to have said that he could perform better work once his machine shop is set up. The two then discuss the possibility of future sales. Fadeley then counts out three hundred dollars for the two guns and promises the balance of one-hundred fifty dollars when they next meet. (Note that the ATF could have simply arrested him here. Why did they wait until January 1991 - over a year later - to arrest him? This is not explained). The next meeting took place on Nov 30, 1989. Fadeley stated that his ""source"" had only come up with one hundred dollars instead of the one-hundred fifty he'd promised. At this point, Weaver suspected he was dealing with an informant, ""I had a guy in Spokane tell me you were bad."" Fadeley managed to convince Weaver otherwise. The _Idaho Statesman_ states explicitly that three tapes were made of conversations with Randy Weaver. Thus, each of these meetings must have been recorded. However, the _Statesman_ also reported that a tape of a telephone conversation involving Vicki Weaver (Randy Weaver's wife) was played to the court. There must have also been phone taps. These tapes were played to the court via both headphones and loudspeakers under the objections of Gerry Spence, Weaver's attorney. Spence said to a KTVB reporter that he wanted to make sure that the government proved its case, ""...if it has a case at all..."" according to the rules. Randy Weaver tore off his headphones and wept when he heard his wife's voice on the tape. U.S. District Court Judge Edward Lodge asked jurors not to hear accounts of the Waco fire because of possible influences on the Weaver/Harris case. Exactly how such information could affect this trial is not explained. Other notes: Sunday evening there was a report on KTVB concerning Kevin Harris. Unnamed agents within the FBI admit that they are surprised that Kevin Harris is still alive. First, they were surprised that he survived the initial gunshot wound(s) sustained in the initial firefight at the Y-junction. Later, when Randy Weaver was struck by sniper fire the sniper had reported that Harris had been struck (not Weaver). Finally, there was a report that the FBI agent who killed Vicki Weaver believed he was aiming at Kevin Harris instead. (This is what was reported). Critics are charging that the FBI was blatantly trying to eliminate the only non-government witness to the deaths of Samuel Weaver and Deputy Marshal William Degan. Some local people believe that Harris's survival is simply due to divine intervention. Tuesday, April 20, 1993 will be the sixth day of the trial. Kenneth Fadeley's testimony is scheduled to continue. ",16 "sony 1304 & Rasterops 24sx(si) for SALE! - UPDATE!! Hello fellow humans, and other net creatures... If you're at all interested in this merchandise, please e-mail me: djk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu I'm compacting my system and moving to a single monitor system, so I have two monitors and cards for sale. Nothing at all is wrong with these pieces, I'm just wanting to conserve desk space, and get all of my info from one screen. I'd prefer to sell to people near Austin and surrounding areas (within driving distance - like an hour away perhaps), but I CAN ship to you if you don't live near here. Only problem is that I didn't keep the original boxes for the monitors, but I'm confident that my few months of full-time service in the shipping room will enable me to safely package the monitors and flip it in your direction. Details: Mirror Full Page Display (monochrome) w/nubus card: --------------------------------------------------- **SOLD** Sony 1304 14"" color monitor: ---------------------------- What's to say? It got top ratings in last year's MacUser report. It's a SONY, Trinitron, arguably the best (but I'd rather not argue that point). It's a great monitor, in great shape, but I'm going to a bigger screen, and although I'd like to keep it, finances don't justify it. Still selling for $599 at MacLand (where I bought it originally - not including shipping), will sell for **$475** (plus shipping). Again, make an offer if that sounds unreasonable. RasterOps 24si (24-bit accelerated, hardware zoom/pan, 4 meg RAM): ------------------------------------------------------------------ Renamed the 24sx a few months after I bought it, this board is for 13"" monitors, providing **accelerated 24-bit**, hardware zoom/pan, NTSC mode (you can plug it into something like the RasterOps Video Expander and output NTSC), and 4 RAM slots that use 1 meg or 4 meg SIMMS for GWorld RAM, or a RAM disk. Software included for such functions. 4 meg of RAM included (1 meg SIMMS). Selling for $605 at Bottom Line (without the RAM - add $100), I'm asking **$525** (shipping included this time, it's just a card). Original box and packaging. I'd actually prefer to sell the Sony monitor and this card together, so if you want both, drop me e-mail and make a ""bundled offer"" for these items. ------------ Cheers. dan keldsen - djk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Keldsen | Are you now, or have you ever been: djk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | a. A Berklee College student? Univ. of Texas, Austin | b. A member/fan of Billy Death? Music Composition, MM | c. a MAX programmer? M & M Consultant (ask) | d. a Think-C & MIDI programmer? ",4 "Pantheism & Environmentalism Hi... I'm new to this group, and maybe this has been covered already, but does anybody out there see the current emphasis on the environment being turned (unintentionally, of course) into pantheism? I've debated this quite a bit, and while I think a legitimate concern for the planet is a great thing, I can easily see it being perverted into something dangerous. As evidence, may I quote THE WALL STREET JOURNAL (of all things!), April 2 (Editorial page): ""We suspect that's because one party to the (environmental) dispute thinks the Earth is sanctified. It's clear that much of the environmentalist energy is derived from what has been called the Religious Left, a SECULAR, or even PAGAN fanaticism that now WORSHIPS such GODS as nature and gender with a reverence formerly accorded real religions."" (EMPHASIS MINE). Thoughts? Reactions? Harangues? ",15 "Re: Boot-up sometimes fails. In article <1993Apr28.053700.12929@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> cs416530@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Matthew I Gillard) writes: >Subject: Boot-up sometimes fails. >From: cs416530@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Matthew I Gillard) >Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 05:37:00 GMT >Sometimes when I boot up windows 3.1, after the windows logo comes up it han >gs, I am using Dos 6 and doublespace, and a 5 meg temp swap file on an >uncompressed drive. >But when I press the reset button on the computer, windows boots up >fine... Why is this??? is it dos 6? >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Matthew Gillard, | Blessed are they who run around >Computer Systems Engineering, | in circles, for they shall be >La Trobe University, | known as wheels. Dos 5 never used the area $E000 - $EFFF, as well as some others. If you have any cards that use this are (such as a LAN card), you might get this problem. Use the X=$E000-$EFFF in your EMM386.EXE line in config.sys. If you run MemMaker then instruct it retain inclusions and exclusions. ",2 "Re: Need specs for a Western Digital IDE HD The 800 number for Western Digital is 1-800-832-4778. -- +---------------------------------------------------------------+ | Albert Dirr | Internet Address : Dirr@tsclion.trenton.edu | | TSC Student | Bitnet Address : Dirr@TSCVM | | E.S. Major | Phone : x7649 | +---------------------------------------------------------------+ ",3 "Jack Morris ?????? Hey guys, who is this Jack Morris fella ?????? ONLY JOKING !!!!! But try to lighten up will ya ? The season's only just started and everyone's apoplectic. If all you statheads out there are trying to justify how Morris is doing at the moment, just remember that we're talking about a very small sample size. There is a helluva long way to go, so sit back and enjoy the ride. Tony. ",9 "Re: Why is Barry Bonds not batting 4th? Timothy Cree (timothy@lamar.ColoState.EDU) wrote: : In article <1993Apr22.192035.23822@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes: : >|> >In article <1993Apr21.032427.22464@leland.Stanford.EDU>, punjabi@leland.Stanford.EDU (sanjeev punjabi) writes: : >|> >(2) Having Bonds batting behind Williams means that Matt will get : >|> > more good pitches to hit. This is important since he struggles : >|> > so much with breaking balls. Opposing pitchers don't want to : >|> > walk Williams to get to Bonds. : > : >I have to wonder if this ""good hitter behind you"" argument is really valid. : >Has anyone done a study on this. : : You want a study? Look at Matt Williams the year after : Mitchell was gone. Look no further. Not a scientific : study, but it'll show the truth for Matt. Besides, Bonds : _wants_ to bat 5th I had thought that Williams batted after Mitchell. Wouldn't that show that Williams does better at 5th rather than 4th? The point is moot, though, becase Clark pretty much demands to be 3rd and, like you point out, Bonds does like to bat 5th. The only person left to bat 4th is Williams. Mike West west@esd.dl.nec.com ",9 "CELLULAR ANTANNAS I need to get some info. on cellular antennas.. who are the biggest companies in this market now? how much do their antenna cost? what are the specs on the antennas (gain, directivity)...? who is the contact person? thank-you email at erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu ",7 "Re: History question In article kazel@uiuc.edu (Mitch Kazel) writes: >Sorry if this isn't the correct news group . . . but . . . > >A colleague of mine is trying to find out when the first public use of >electronic voice amplification was . . . i.e. a P-A system. > >Any reference would be appreciated. Please reply via e-mail. >Mitch Kazel (N9HDQ) >INTERNET: kazel@uiuc.edu This is vague, so I am posting it in case anyone else knows more. I recall reading of a phonograph which used mechanical amplification. Compressed air was squirted out of a valve which was controlled by the pickup. The result was noisy and distinctly lo-fi, but much louder than a conventional phonograph. It tended to wear the disks out pretty quickly though. Paul. -- Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk). | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245 --------------------------------------------+---------------------------------- These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions ",12 "Slick 50, any good? Chances are that this has been discussed to death already, and if so could someone who has kept the discussion mail me or direct me to an archive site. Basically, I am just wondering if Slick 50 really does all it says that it does. And also, is there any data to support the claim. Thanks for any info. Mike Davis mad9a@fermi.clas.virginia.edu ",7 "C. S. Lewis is OK (was Ancient Books) In article , mayne@ds3.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne) wrote: > > The last sentence is ironic, since so many readers of > soc.religion.christian seem to not be embarrassed by apologists such as > Josh McDowell and C.S. Lewis. The above also expresses a rather odd sense > of history. What makes you think the masses in Aquinas' day, who were > mostly illiterate, knew any more about rhetoric and logic than most people > today? If writings from the period seem elevated consider that only the > cream of the crop, so to speak, could read and write. If everyone in > the medieval period ""knew the rules"" it was a matter of uncritically > accepting what they were told. > > Bill Mayne > > [This may be unfair to Lewis. The most prominent fallacy attributed > to him is the ""liar, lunatic, and lord"". As quoted by many > Christians, this is a logical fallacy. In its original context, it > was not. --clh] Exactly. C. S. Lewis has taken a couple of pretty severe hits in this group lately. First somebody was accusing him of being self-righteous and unconvincing. Now we are told that we Christians should be embarrassed by him. (As well as by Josh McDowell, about whom I have no comment, having never read his work.) Anyone who thinks that C. S. Lewis was self-righteous ought to read his introduction to The Problem of Pain, which is his theodicy. In it, he explains that he wanted to publish the book anonymously. Why? Although he believed in the argument he was presenting, he did not want to seem to presume to tell others how brave they should be in the face of their own suffering. He did not want people to think that he was presenting himself as some kind of model of fortitude, or that he was anything other than what he considered himself to be -- ""a great coward."" OFM has adequately handled the question of whether we ought to be embarrassed by Lewis' liar/lunatic/lord argument (which, by the way, is part of a *much* bigger discourse.) I would just like to add that, far from being embarrassed by Lewis, I am in a state of continual amazement at the soundness and clarity of the arguments he presents. - Phil - Hey, we're talking about the PHONE COMPANY, here. The Phone Company doesn't have opinions on this kind of stuff. This is all me. ",15 "Re: win nt In article <1pq66v$kkt@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, raymaker@bcm.tmc.edu (Mark Raymaker) says: > >Is anyone aware of existing ipx/netx software for WindowsNT or >is attachment to Netware a FUTURE release? >please respond to internet mail: raymaker@bcm.tmc.edu >thanks > I believe the beta version of the service is available via ftp on ftp.cica.indiana.edu in pub/pc/win3/nt called something like nwnt.zip There is an INDEX ascii file there, which lists the programs in that directory and what they do. unfortunately this beta will also disable netbeui and tcp/ip over your primary nic, so if you really want to run it, get yourself an extra nic and bind it to that. Otherwise wait for next release, like I am. Adriene ",2 "Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together! In article <1r7f9qINNk24@phantom.gatech.edu> grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes: >jmm4h@Virginia.EDU (""The Blade Runner"") writes: > >>A GT-40?! Gotta be in my top 5 favorite-cars-of-all-time >>list. Where is this place? Was the car for sale? COME ON, I >>need details...or not. Anyways, I just had to say WOW at the >>sighting of such a fine beast. But remember, the Mustang will >>forever be the true King of the Road. > >The place was in what used to be a small town (now a suburb) north of >Atlanta. I don't know if the car was for sale or not, you wouldn't put >a price on the window on this type of car anyway. Damn straight! As far as I've heard, unless the owner is _very_ hard up, the GT-40s are not for sale at any price that mere mortals could afford. >And maybe the Mustang >will be forever King of the Road, the GT-40 isn't road legal. I think the GT-40 actually _is_ street legal, although that particular question is moot (see the price figures below). >This car was right hand drive (weren't they all like that?). How much does >a GT-40 go for? How many were made? I wish I could find my Shelby-American guide; it included the GT-40 registry (as of '88 or so). There were precious few of them made (fifty is the number that springs to mind; they made just enough to qualify for the Manufacturer's Cup, or whichever series it was that Shelby broke Ferarri's 13-year winning streak in in '65), and they are all accounted for. The last price I saw estimated on a GT-40 was a little bit over $1,000,000 (yes, that's right, ONE MILLION US DOLLARS; it was second only to some worthless piece of Ferrari that it would blow the doors off of ;-). I don't recall off-hand what the drive configuration was, although I'm certain some must have been LHD, as they had to be sold to qualify for racing. The drivertrain was the Ford 427 (hi-riser, I think, and/or side-oiler) coupled to various 4-speed transmissions. They also used 3-speed manuals; they had lots of problems with the original trannys breaking under the load of the 427. Layout was rear-engine, rear-drive, with the ""bundle of snakes"" exhaust headers...I can remeber other bits and pieces of info, but I can't remember whether they applied to the GT-40 or the Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe...I'll try and find that reference. James James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work... The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC ""It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has and all he's ever gonna have."" --Will Munny, ""Unforgiven"" ",7 "CD'S FOR SALE Th following cd's are for sale. Each cd cost 10$ except otherwise indicated which includes shipping and handling. Achtung baby U2 * Joshua tree U2 ** The immaculate collection Madonna ** $12 Love hurts Cher * Garth brooks Garth brooks * Red hot ..chilli peppers.. ** OOOOOHHHHH TLC ** Light and shadows wilson ** * Used only once. ** never used, most of them are still in shrink wraps Please email to kGC @ woods.ulowell.edu ",6 "Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together! Give out the address, I'll drive by and take a look myself, then post. -- Stephen Phillips Atlanta Response Center Atlanta, Ga. Home of the Braves! ",7 "Re: To be exact, 2.5 million Muslims were exterminated by the Armenians. ac = In <9304202017@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) pl = linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden) pl: 1. So, did the Turks kill the Armenians? ac: So, did the Jews kill the Germans? ac: You even make Armenians laugh. ac: ""An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the ac: systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of ac: the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at ac: least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The ac: memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and ac: eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in ac: 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."" Typical Mutlu. PvdL asks if X happened, the response is that Y happened. Even if we grant that the Armenians *did* do what Cosar accuses them of doing, this has no bearing on whether the Turks did what they are accused of. While I can understand how an AI could be this stupid, I can't understand how a human could be such a moron as to either let such an AI run amok or to compose such pointless messages himself. I do not expect any followup to this article from Argic to do anything to alleviate my puzzlement. But maybe I'll see a new line from his list of insults. -- /|/-\/-\ This article is supplied without longbox |__/__/_/ and uses recycled 100% words, characters and ideas. |warren@ / nysernet.org ",17 "Doing the work of God??!!) As our local.religion.christian BBS group seems moribund, I'm posting here. On one of the Sundays just before Easter I went to church. The sermon was based on a story in the Book of Joshua. (The one about Joshua sending out spies to the land he was planning to take) What I particularly remember, because of having heard part of a CBC radio documentary on Bosnia, was that the Rahab (the woman who sheltered the spies) said that the people were ""melting in fear."" What with having heard that CBC radio documentary and knowing that the Muslims in Bosnia were losing the war, I felt uncomfortable. After all, the Serbs are driving non-Christians out. On the other hand, ministers do say that the Bible is opposed to the values held by our secular society. Anyhow members of that church are involved in out-of-country missionary work. Also, the pastor has talked of spiritual warfare and of bringing Christ to the nonreligious people of our area. The next Sunday, the sermon was about Joshua 6 (where the Israelites take Jericho and then proceed to massacre everybody there --- except for Rahab, who had sheltered the spies). With those reports about Bosnia in my mind, I felt uncomfortable about the minister saying that the massacre (the one in Joshua) was right. But what really bothered me was that, if I was going to try taking Christianity seriously, I shouldn't be so troubled about the reports of ""ethnic cleansing"" in Bosnia. Certainly, my sympathies shouldn't be with the Moslims. Considering that the Bosnian Muslims are descendants of Christians who, under Turkish rule, converted to Islam could the Serbs be doing God's work? [The example of God's people setting out on bloody wars of conquest has always been troubling in discussions here. I personally question whether they were right even at the time. But those who believe they were consider that the wars were justified only because they were specifically commanded by God. Somehow I don't see the Serbs behaving like a group that is led by God in this matter. --clh] ",15 "Re: What planets are habitable In article jpg@bnr.co.uk (Jonathan P. Gibbons) writes: >I would appreciate any thoughts on what makes a planet habitable for Humans. >I am making asumptions that life and a similar atmosphere evolve given a range >of physical aspects of the planet. The question is what physical aspects >simply disallow earth like conditions. > >eg Temperature range of 280K to 315K (where temp is purely dependant on dist > from the sun and the suns temperature..) > Atmospheric presure ? - I know nothing of human tolerance > Planetary Mass ? - again gravity at surface is important, how much > can human bodies take day after day. Also how does the mass effect > atmosphere. I thinking of planets between .3 and 3 times mass of the > earth. I suppose density should be important as well. > >Climate etc does not concern me, nor does axial tilt etc etc. Just the above >three factors and how they relate to one another. > >Jonathan Jonathan, interesting questions. Some wonder whether or not the moon could have ever supported an atmosphere. I'd be interested in knowing what our geology/environmental sciences friends think. As for human tolerances, the best example of human endurance in terms of altitude (i.e. low atmospheric pressure and lower oxygen partial pressure) is in my opinion to the scaling of Mt. Everest without oxygen assistance. This was accomplished by a team of mountaineers who trained at high altitudes for quite awhile (I think a few months) and then were flown by helicopter from that training altitude to the equivalent altitude on Mount Everest, where they began the ascent of our planet's highest peak without oxygen tanks. This is quite a feat of physiological endurance, because if you or I tried to go to 20,000 feet and exert ourselves, we would probably pass out, get altitude sick, and could even die from cerebral edema. So this is the limit of low pressure. High pressure situations would be limited by the duration of time which it takes to slowly acclimate to a higher pressure. Skin divers would know alot about high pressure situations and could tell you about how they safely make deep dives without getting the bends. Some military experiments have put people under several atmospheres of pressure (not sure what the high limit was because the papers aren't in front of me). Usually at a certain point, the nitrogen in the air becomes toxic to the body and you start acting idiotic. Divers call this nitrogen narcosis. Those afflicted can do very dangerous and irrational things, like taking off a diving mask and oxygen tank in order to talk to fish at 100 feet under water. (Hope any diving folk can elaborate on this matter, as I am not a diving expert). Mars cannot support human life without pressurization because the atmosphere is too thin (1/100 th our Earth's atmospheric density). In addition, the Mars atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide. Basically, you would need a pressure suit there, or you'd die from the low pressure. Interesting huh? ken khayash@hsc.usc.edu ",14 "* * * For Sale: Window Shades * * * Kirsch Pull down Window Shades - White, Light Filtering - 73.25"" Wide, 72"" High, can be cut to width - Brand new, unopened - ""Best Quality"", Vinyl Coated Cotton - Mounting Brackets included - $35 (Bought at $60 at J.C.Penney) .............................................................................. rajaram@sun.com (W) 415/336-5194 (H) 510/796-9932 ",6 "X terminal FAQ > Subject: 68) What is the current state of the world in X terminals? > > Jim Morton (jim@applix.com) posts quarterly to comp.windows.x a list of > manufacturers and terminals; it includes pricing information. Can somebody send me a copy of this faq? Thanks alot! Da ",5 "Re: Help! How to test SIMMs? Well, You can always try and find a PC dealer who sells guaranteed memory. I work at a company growing at 40% a year, we have on order hundreds of computers per year. It never fails, machines come in with BAD SIMMS. Now for those of you who are wondering just WHY your PC or MAC just crashed I can tell you I always thought it was the incompetent ass who wrote or designed the software. Well, I don't think that way anymore, especially with the results I have gotten with replacing BAD SIMMS in my own machine and others at work. The moral to this story is to MAKE SURE your memory is good. I would be willing to bet lots of you out there have SIMMS with either soft or hard errors on them and you don't even know about it, but every once in awhile those bad SIMMS just makes your life hell. I just got plain SICK of dealing with peoples complaints that thier machine just crashed and they lost thier work. In case your wondering, or if you haven't already guessed I work in an IS department. Service is a do or die perogative in this line of work, so the MORAL IS: HAVE YOUR MEMORY TESTED with a SIMM hardware tester...and NO I don't mean the simple little software programs that you can run in your machine. SIMMS are complicated little beasts and they needs special hardware to test them effectively. If any of you are interested in getting one of these nifty little devices which are not cheap, write me back. They make life a little bit easier, and besides they pay for themselves in a short time from the loss of productivity people would have to deal with when thier machine commits suicide. -Greg Carter ",4 "Scope questions Greetings. I've been seeing the word ""storage"" mentioned around oscilliscopes but I'm curious, what does it mean? If my life depended on it, I'd say that it's a scope that uses long-persistance phosphor to keep the successive taces on the screen for some unit of time - ""store"" them. Do I get to live? Also, I've been shopping for a decent, used, [old] scope since my Tek 514A (portable...NOT!) and my Heathkit O-1000 are all single trace and I need more... like 2 or 3 and at least 50MHz (maybe 100...) During my shopping at hamfests etc. I've run into the problem of ""old scope"" terminology. I can imagine what a ""mainframe"" and ""plug-in"" are but some things like the above ""storage"", ""coax input"" (Hey, where do I get a probe that fits this? I had to fiddle with mine for a week before I got anything resembling ""a good trace"" - they all come with BNC connectors!), ""unblanking"" (huh?), and, oh, just like my 514 manuals, MANY changes were made along the way to the schematic - scopes, even with IDENTICAL model numbers, have different (better?) response/performance than others - how can I pick the better one? Does the rule of the higher SN the better apply? Take care. -- / Filip ""I'll buy a vowel"" Gieszczykiewicz. | Best e-mail ""fmgst+@pitt.edu"" \ | All ideas are mine but they can be yours for only $0.99 so respond NOW!!!! | | I live for my EE major, winsurfing, programming, SCA, and assorted dreams. | \ 200MB Drive - Linux has 100MB and MS-DOS has 100MB. MS-DOS is worried ;-) / ",12 "Error building X11R5 xdm Hi, there, I'm trying to build X11R5 mit core distribution on a SparcStation running SunOS 4.1.1. The only thing I change is the ProjectRoot in site.def. When the ""make World"" process goes to ""cc -o xdm ..."", I get the following error: ld: Undefined symbol __C0095A2A *** Error code 2 And the process continues to finish. Does anybody know what's wrong? Thanx for any info. Lei Shao ls116@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu ",5 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In dans@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan S.) writes: >brian@gab.unt.edu (Brian ""Drakula"" Stone) writes: >(No axe to grind here I'm just a scientist and I hate to see statistics abused.) Pity you didn't say something about the use of statistics to justify targeting and persecuting a minority, then. >>Men are men and they all like sex. I am a gay male. I have had sex three >>times in my life, all with the same man. Before that, I was a virgin. >I am a hetero man and have had sex with one woman in my life (my wife). It is >very pleasing to me to be able to say that. I hope you have the same feeling >as I do. I also wish that you could (if you wanted) experience the joys and >trials of being committed to someone for life (there is something about marriage >that makes the commitment much greater than one might expect). What in the Tree makes you think we queers CAN'T experience that commitment? What's stopping us from committing to one partner for the rest of our lives? I have every intention of doing so, once I find the right person...and whether that person is male or female, I seriously doubt that a church ceremony/public vow/licence will make any difference whatsoever in the sort of commitment I experience with that person. You have no conception of the difference marriage makes since you have never known any other way. >>Statistics alone prove that most criminals are by default hetero... >Don't forget about the culture. Sadly, we don't (as a society) look upon >homosexuality as normal (and as we are all too well aware, there are alot >of people who condemn it). As a result, the gay population is not encouraged >to develop ""non-promiscuous"" relationships. In fact there are many roadblocks >put in the way of such committed relationships. It is as if the heterosexual >community puts these blocks there so as to perpetuate the claim that gays >are immoral. ""My, if we allowed gays to marry, raise children ... we might >just find out they're as moral as we are, can't have that can we?"" You're getting to the right idea here...just be careful of making statements like the above, and you'll be part of the solution and not the problem. >Just some thoughts. Flame away. :) No flames necessary. :) Drywid -- ----bi Andrew D. Simchik SCHNOPIA! \ ---- as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu TreeWater \\ / \/ ""Words Weren't Made For Cowards""--Happy Rhodes ",18 "Looking for drawing packages Greetings. I am developing an application that allows a *user* to interactively create/edit/view a visual ""model"" (i.e. topology) of their network, and I was wondering if anyone knew of any builder tools that exist to simplify this task. In the past I have used Visual Edge's UIM/X product to develop other GUIs, so I am familiar with UIMSs in general. The topology will support objects and connecting links. Once the topology is created, I want to provide the user with capabilities to support grouping, zooming, etc. I am looking for some form of a higher abstraction other than X drawing routines to accomplish this. Specifically, the zooming and grouping aspects may prove difficult, and certainly time consuming, if I have to ""roll my own"". Suggestions? -greg greg@software.mitel.com ",5 "Re: Not talking to soldiers, part II In article , sichermn@beach.csulb.edu (Jeff Sicherman) writes: >> Janet, some advice: go with the SEALs/Delta Force/Green Berets next >>time and talk nicely to the generals. > > This might be illegal without a very specific Presidential declaration > or even a change in law. In general (sic), U.S. military troops are not > permitted to be used for domestic policing operations. Do you mean besides the National Guard? Outside of military reservations? Besides national emergencies? Brett ________________________________________________________________________________ ""There's nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction."" Sean O'Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert. ",18 "Re: When are two people married in God's eyes? In article rob@ll.mit.edu writes: >I think it was Lewis who said that in a wedding, it's the principals >that marry each other; the church and the state are present merely as >witnesses. > >[This is not just Lewis -- it's a summary of standard Catholic >theology. However this doesn't mean that the presence of those >witnesses is optional, except in odd situations like the standard >desert island. --clh] I originally wrote to the person who asked this question personally, but decided to post the information I had on the topic. I spoke to the pastor of my parish (Catholic) recently, by coincidence, on this subject. His explaination was that while it is possible for a couple to marry without the presence of a priest, it is important to have it recognized by the Church as soon as it is possible. Because the Church recoginizes itself as a community of believers, members of the church, to some degree, are to be held accountable to each other. To be less hypothetical than that mythical couple on the desert island, there are many places in the world that do not have priests availible for marriages on a regular basis. Therefore, couples get married without the priest being present, but get the priest to testify to their marriage when one comes through the area. I remember a religion teacher in high school saying that the marriage ceremony is not for the benefit of the couple as much as it is for the benefit of the community. Thus, married couples have some responsibility to the community to stay married, as divorce sets a bad example for the community. Also, the couple has vowed to become one with one another--the community should be able to rely on that couple to be as one. While couples may marry without witnesses, they may NOT get anulments without a priest present. An anulment is simply an admission of the church that what they had declared a marriage was not, in fact, a marriage at all, for whatever reason. So don't start getting married in the back seat of a station wagon and giving yourselves anulments a half-hour later!! I tend to agree with the response back there that said couples become married as soon as they consumate their marriage, but I would add that couples should consider their marriage consumated if they have sex, whether or not they intended to be married, assuming they were both willing partners to the sexual act. The couple must be prepared to raise any children they may have as a result of that sexual act with the benefit of both parents. Sex IS a commitment, I believe, in God's eyes. But I'm digressing.... God be with you, Malcusco ",15 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes: >How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local >agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless? Hear, hear! Thanks, Robbie. You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds, who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers. On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be. Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do with people of all ages. ",7 "Re: Info/Opinions Wanted on Cars In this Article In article <1993Apr13.182100.26650@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes: >In article <49071@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes: >> >>I'm in the market for a new car. Currently I own a '90 Mazda MX-6 DX >>which has served me just fine. However, I'd like to get >>a 4-door car since I don't relish the thought of moving a carseat >>around in a 2-door car. My criteria are: 4-door, a/c, am/fm cassette, >>quick acceleration, cruise control, decent rear seat legroom (my >>husband is a 6-footer). It must also be under $20k >>preferably closer to the 11-15k range (which will probably rule out >>the Accord). The '93 cars that have caught my eye are: Toyota Corolla, >>Toyata Camry, Mazda 626, Pontiac Grand Am, Pontiac Grand Prix, >>Honda Accord, (and Civic if it's roomy enough and still comes in a >>4-door model), Hyundai Sonata, and maybe even a small Oldsmobile, >>although not the Achieva. All opinions, benchmarks, >>recommendations, etc. are welcome. > >I really wouldn't consider the Grand Am/Achevia/Skylark (all the same) >since they are very bad in frontal collsions and don't have any >other really outstanding qualities. > >john >-- I really must object to that last statement. Having a lot of experience with a '92 Grand Am coupe, I can firmly state that they do have a lot of outstanding qualities. Very reliable throughout. Great layout of controls and components. Very roomy considering the exterior size of the car. They look sharp inside and out. The V6 that I drive has exceptional power and drivability compared to other similar cars that I have driven. All in all, it's a fun-to-drive, dependable, and reasonably priced vehicle. Please don't knock it with a statement like that unless you back it up with specific reasons why you feel that way. Rob bell@plains.nodak.edu >John Nielsen MAGNUS Consultant ______ ______ __ __ >""To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\ __ \ /\ ___\ /\ \/\ \ >something that happened to other people, \ \ \/\ \\ \___ \\ \ \_\ \ >wasn't it?"" - The Black Adder \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ ",7 "Re: How do they know what keys to ask for? (Re: Clipper) In article , johnson@trwacs.fp.trw.com (Steve Johnson) writes: > brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes: >>And of course you have to identify yourself to the phone company, and >>since the phone company complies with court orders, they will know the >>magic number of your chip when they sign out a warrant on you, and >>then can present the warrant to the key escrow house. Lets hope. Years ago a Telecom tech refused to tap a line unless he saw the warrant. The managment type who told him to do it fired him. The appeal against the dismissal was lost. > Who makes them forget and destroy all copies of the key once they've > decided you're not a criminal today? Just curious. Good luck. ~Paul ",11 "Re: Annual inguinal hernia repair In article , jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov (J. Porter Clark) wrote: [synopsis] Young man with inguianl hernia on one side, repaired, now has new hernia on other side. What gives, he asks? [and he continues...] > Of course, my wife thinks it's from sitting for long periods of time at > the computer, reading news... There is the possibility that there is some degree of constipation causing chronic straining which has caused the bowel movements. The classic problems that are supposed to be looked for in someone with a hernia are constipation, chronic cough, colon cancer (and you're not too young for that) and sitting for long periods of time at the computer, reading news. Good Luck with your surgery! Steve Holland ",13 "Re: SHO clutch question (grinding noise?) In article <5243@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes: |> In article jcyuhn@crchh574.NoSubdomain.NoDomain |> (James Yuhn) writes: |> > That's not the clutch you're hearing, its the gearbox. Early SHOs have |> > a lot of what is referred to as 'gear rollover' noise. You can generally |> |> I have one of the first SHOs built, and _mine_ doesn't make |> this noise. |> Geez wharfie, do you have to be so difficult? Mine was built in December '88, which qualifies as pretty dang early, and it most certainly grinds away. Jim ",7 "Re: Need Senate Bill numbers and House Resolution numbers In article mjp@vnet.ibm.com (Michael J. Phelps) writes: > >Try the firearms archive. Larry Cipriani's instructions follow. By >the way, thanks for the archive Larry.. There are a few bills not yet in the archive, but these are the main ones we need to fight. And thanks to David Robinson for scanning so many of them in for us! The subdirectory bills are stored in was moved from ""congress"" to ""Congress"", that is: godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu:/usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba/Congress -- Larry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com ",16 "Re: God, morality, and massacres Without quoting at length from the preceeding post, I'd just like to say that I find it a much more appropriate way of dealing with issues like the Holocaust and Bosnia that asserting that ""God is punishing them."" The activity of God is always _redemptive_, which means ""restoring what has been lost, broken, or distorted."" So, God does not _will_ the brokenness, lostness, distortion, genocide, poverty, etc, but is nonetheless capable, willing, and active to restore, heal, mend, and redeeem. revdak@netcom.com ",15 "Re: How hot should the cpu be? kushmer@bnlux1.bnl.gov (christopher kushmerick) writes: >How hot should the CPU in a 486-33 DX machine be? >Currently it gets so hot that I can not hold a finger on it for more than >0.5 s. >I keep a big fan blowing on it, but am considering using a heat sink. >Any advice? 1. Don't hold your finger on it 2. When cooking with it use a very small pan and be sure to not spill liquids on the components 3. If you do not plan to cook with it there are a number of small cooling fans designed to mount on the chip and plug into your power supply. Look in Consumer Shoppers. Now if only some innovative person could design and produce a heat sink which could be used to keep my coffee warm, why I might even buy a Pentium ! ",3 "Re: Why does Illustrator AutoTrace so poorly? mac@utkvx.bitnet (Richard J. McDougald) writes: > Since there's no (not really) such thing as a decent raster to vector > conversion program, this ""tracing"" technique is about it. Simple stuff, > like b&w logos, etc. do pretty well, while more complicated stuff goes > haywire. The first and only thing I've ever tried to auto-trace was a piece of a USCG nautical chart using Adobe Illustrator 3.2. I wanted to get the outline of the coast for Western Long Island Sound. I was simultaneously suprised at how good a job it did and disappointed at how poorly it did. I suspect what I gave it was a very difficult thing; not only is the coastline very irregular, but overlaid on the chart are numerous sets of gridlines (not only lattitude and longitude, but loran grids as well). The most common mistake it make was whenever the coastline was roughly parallel and tangent to a grid line, it would take off following the gridline instead of the coast. I think the best improvement would be some sort of interactive algorithm that would let you step in and say ""no, dummy, you're going the wrong way"". Steve Reisberg, a friend of mine a few years back(*), did his doctoral work analysing electron micrographs of filimentous phage (virii). A good chunk of the work was writing a program to take a digitized micrograph and automatically trace the centerline of the virus particles. This is essentially the same problem that Illustrator tries to solve with its auto-trace tool. In some respects the problem Steve worked on was harder, since he was trying to do quantitative analysis of the virus structure and finding a good centerline was only the first step, but a step on which all future analysis depended. However, in other respects, it was an easier problem since the program could be written with a lot of knowledge about what the virus particles were supposed to look like, and the analysis could be restricted to those particles which happend to be relatively straight, clean, and well imaged; you don't always have that freedom auto-tracing real life images. In any case, it gave me some insight into just how difficult this problem is to solve in the general case. (*) Steve is no longer with us. He and his wife disappeared while on vacation in Hawaii a couple of years after they graduated. Their last known location was hiking in a densely wooded in a mountainous area. While no bodies were ever found, they are presumed to have been the victim of some sort of fall or accident in the woods. -- Roy Smith Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202 NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 ""This never happened to Bart Simpson."" ",1 "Arafat (Re: Sampson) In article <5897@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes: >In article <1993Apr10.182402.11676@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes: >>Perhaps, though one can argue about whether or not the current >>Palestinian delegation represents the PLO (I would hope it does not, as >>the PLO really doesn't have that kind of legitimacy). >Does it matter to you, Naftaly, Adam, and others, that Arafat >advises the delegation and that the PLO, overall, supports it? Does >it also matter that Arafat, on behalf of the PLO, recognizes Israel >and its right to exist? Further, does Israel's new policy concerning >direct negotiations with the PLO hold any substance to the situation >as a whole? No, he does not. Arafat explicitly *denies* this claim. from a Libyan televison interview with Yasser Arafat 7-19-1991 Q: Some people say that the Palestinian revolution has many times changed its strategies and tactics, something which has left its imprint on the Palestinian problem and on the Palestinian Liberation Front. The [strategies and tactics] have not been clear. The question is, is the direction of the Palestinian problem clear? The Palestinian leadership has stopped, or at least this is what has been said in the media, this happened on the way to the dialogue with the United States, the PLO recognized something called ""Israel""... A: No, no, no! We do not recognize the State of Israel. We said ""recognition"" -- when a Palestinian state is established. It will then decide if to recognize Israel or not. When it is established, its parliament will convene and decide. >policies which it can justify through occupation. Because of this, >you have the grassroot movements that reject Israel's authority and >disregard for human rights; and, if Israel was serious about peace, it >would abandon these policies. And replace them with what? If Israel is to withdraw its control of any territory, there must be two prerequsites. One is that it leads to a reduction in deaths. The second is that it should not weaken Israels bargianing position with respect to peace talks. Leaving Gaza unilateraly is a bad idea because it encourages arabs to think they can get what they want by killing Jews. The only way Israel should pull out of Gaza is at the end of negotiations. These negotiations should lead to a mutually agreeable solution with security guarantees for both sides. Until arabs are ready to sit down at the table and talk again, they should not expect, or recieve more concessions. Adam Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu ""If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."" -John Perry Barlow ",17 "TRAILER for sale TRAILER FOR SALE 1990 Hooper Auto Transport Trailer 16' x 6.5' Flatbed 4 Ton Gross Weight Capacity Tandem Axle Suspension 7 x 14.5 MH Nylon Tires Comes With a Spare Tire Electric Brakes Stop Lights & Turn Signals Loading Ramps - Tilt for Towing - Removable Front Steel Fence - Removable Stake Sides - for attaching sideboards, tiedowns, etc Rigged for Hauling Automobile, Tractor, Equipment, etc. Less than 4000 miles since new Serialized, with Title and Registration Papers For sale by Original Owner @ $795 Big hook-end chain and 4"" web ratchet tiedown negotiable -- (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) (*) (*) (*) Greg Hering (*) (*) Senior Software Analyst Phone : (205) 730-8160 (*) (*) Aeronautical Systems, MSD FAX : (205) 730-8178 (*) (*) Intergraph Corporation Internet: glhering@ingr.com (*) (*) Huntsville, AL Mailstop: LR23A5 (*) (*) (*) (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) ",6 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article dianem@boi.hp.com (Diane Mathews) writes: >>Dear Brother Bill, >> >>One way or another -- so much for patience. Too bad you couldn't just >>wait. Was the prospect of God's Message just too much to take? > > So do you want the president to specifically order each and every activity >of the FBI, or what? And how willing are you to blame Reagan and Bush, >directly, for the incidents that took place in the War on Drugs in their >administration? Are you going to blame Bush for the fact that Weaver's wife, >infant, son were killed? It happened while he was president. > This was obviously a lot different than the ordinary FBI adventure. I believe that the Federal officers had a conflict of interests here. Throught out the whole affair, it seamed to me that they were chiefly concerned with saving face rather than saving lifes. Its true that The BD were resisting arrest and that they should have surrendered when they first realized that these where federal officers. But they didn`t. But when they didn`t, the FBI should not have treated as a hostage situation, it wasn't. I think more discussions, possible independant negotiators, and family intervention should have been used. Of course this is just monday morning Quartberbaking...or is it? I don`t think I shall every forget Reno responding to Ted Koppels Questions last night. Watching the AG squirm when telling us that the only reason they ""stepped it up"" a bit was because of there fear for the safety of the Children. When I think of the Chief role of the Government--To protect and to serve....I ask myself--Just who where they protecting and just who where they serving? I did see a flag at half mast today. I wonder who they are mourning. cjk@netcom.com ",19 "Results of GUSTO Heart Attack Study to be Released Friday Here is a press release from Medical Science Communications. Results of GUSTO Heart Attack Study to be Released Friday To: Assignment Desk, Medical Writer Contact: Jim Augustine of Medical Science Communication, 703-644-6824, or Steve Hull or Tracy Furey, 800-477-9626 or April 29-30, 202-393-2000 or 202-662-7592 (J.W. Marriott) News Advisory: Results of the largest heart attack study ever undertaken, the Global Utilization of Streptokinase and t-PA for Occluded Coronary Arteries trial (GUSTO), will be presented Friday, April 30, at the Clinical Research Meeting. A press conference will be held at 12:30 p.m. GUSTO evaluates the most aggressive emergency-room treatment strategies available to clear blocked heart arteries and restore blood flow to the heart, a process called thrombolysis. The thrombolytic strategies compared in GUSTO use powerful drugs to break up blood clots in heart vessels quickly and prevent clots from recurring. These strategies have never been compared directly in a large-scale clinical trial until GUSTO. The results are expected to have an important impact on heart attack treatment worldwide. The press conference will be held at two locations: live at the National Press Club, Main Lounge, 13th Floor, 529 14th St., N.W., Washington D.C., and via satellite at The Hotel Macklowe, 145 W. 44th Street, 4th Floor, New York City, between Broadway and 6th Avenue. GUSTO results will be presented by Eric Topol M.D., GUSTO Study Chairman, professor and chairman of the Department of Cardiology at The Cleveland Clinic Foundation; Robert Califf, M.D., clinical director, GUSTO Coordinating Center and Associate Professor of Medicine at Duke University Medical Center; and Allan Ross, M.D., coordinator of the GUSTO Angiographic Substudy and professor and director of the Division of Cardiology at The George Washington University Medical Center. ------ Editorial Notes/Attention television: The press conference may be viewed in its entirety via satellite starting at 12:30 p.m. (EDT) C-band Telestar 302, Transponder 2V (dual audio 6.2, 6.8) or KUSBS6, Transponder 8. Following the press conference, there will be a news package and b-roll feed. Camera-ready illustrations also will be available at the press conference. Telephone hook up to the press conference is planned. Availability is limited; please call MCS for more information. For reporters who will be at the Sheraton Washington attending the Clinical Research Meeting on Friday morning, minibus transportation will be provided to the press conference. The bus will depart at 12 p.m.; it also will be available for return to the Sheraton after the press conference. For more information, contact Steve Hull or Tracy Furey of MCS, for the GUSTO Study Group, at 800-477-9626; or at the J.W. Marriott April 29 to April 30 at 202-393-2000 or 202-662-7592. For more information about the Clinical Research Meeting, contact Jim Augustine of Medical Science Communications at 703-644-6824. -30- -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario 416-629-7000/629-7044 ",13 "Re: Do the 2MB ATI Ultra Pro 16 and 24 bit Windows Drivers Work? In article <87402@ut-emx.uucp>, reza@magellan.ae.utexas.edu (Alireza Vali) writes: > Hi there. We just bought a 486 DX2/66 Gateway system with a 2 meg ATI > Ultra Pro video card. Everything seems to work fine except for the > Windows Drivers for 800x600 24 bit, and 800x600 and 1024x768 16 bit > modes. The fonts and icons start deteriorating after windows startup, > and within minutes of use, everything on the screen is totally > unintelligible. Naturally, I called Gateway tech support to inquire > about this. The technician asked me about the drivers, and I told him it > was version 1.5, build 59. He told me that the 16 and 24 bit drivers for > the ATI Ultra Pro simply do not work!!! Is this true? If so, I'm simply > amazed. How could this be? The strange thing is I would have expected > to see some discussion on here (unless the subject has made the FAQ!!!). > > One very suspicious point that came up later was that he stated that none > of the Windows Accelerator boards have working 16 and/or 24 bit drivers > for Windows 3.1. I easily challenged him on that because I've been > running a Diamond 24x in 15 bit mode at home for 4 months now, and I have > tested and used the 24 bit mode as well. He then backed off and said: > ""Well, Diamond has been working on those drivers much longer."" Anyway, I > just wanted to see if anyone else had any trouble and what they did about > it. Any feedback will be appreciated. > > The system configuration is: > > Gateway 486 DX2/66 Local Bus > 16 Megs Ram > SCSI HD & CD-ROM > Ultrastor 34F Local Bus SCSI controller > ATI Ultra Pro Local Bus with 2MB VRAM > DOS 6.0 > Windows 3.1 > Mach 32 drivers version 1.5 (build 59) I have been able to successfully use both 16 and 24 bit color modes on my Gateway system, although my setup is less complicated than yours. It sounds as if you may have a hardware conflict or problem. Is your memory aperture above 16M? I have heard rumors of incompatibilities with that SCSI card with a variety of systems. Call up Gateway and give them hell until they help you fix it. Dan -- Daniel Matthew Coleman | Internet: dcoleman@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu -----------------------------------+---------- : dcoleman@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu The University of Texas at Austin | DECnet: UTXVMS::DCOLEMAN Electrical/Computer Engineering | BITNET: DCOLEMAN@UTXVMS [.BITNET] ",3 "Zionism - racism From: Center for Policy Research Subject: Zionism - racism Diaspora 'a cancer' ------------------- by Julian Kossoff and Lindsay Schusman in: Jewish Chronicle, London, 22. Dec. 1989 Leading Israeli author and cultural commentator, A.B. Yehoshua, launched a ferocious attack on diaspora Jewry at a Zionist Youth Council meeting in North London, last week. The diaspora, he claimed, ""was the cancer connected to the main tissue of the Jewish people"". He was scathing about its failure to act before the Holocaust. He said the diaspora's religious and secular leadership had ignored the warning signs in the 1920s, and had fiercely opposed Zionism. Consequently, he considered the Holocaust, ""the failure of Judaism"". His talk, entitled ""Diaspora: A Neurotic Solution"", covered 5,000 years of Jewish history. Mr. Yehoshua's other targets included Soviet Jews who were, he said ""not staying [in Israel], but running [away]"", and all Jews outside Israel ""who were using other people's countries like hotels"". The only conclusion he could draw was that the diaspora was immoral, because it looked to Israel for its identity but lived elsewhere. Worse, it threatened Israel itself, creating a distraction for her citizens, who were leaving by the thousands. Mr. Yehoshua, who described himself as ""a soldier for aliyah"", ended by calling for the creation of a new ""total Jew"", living in Israel. Earlier, speaking at a meeting of Jewish students on the difficulties of forging a national identity in Israeli literature, Mr. Yehoshua claimed that Israeli writers were paralyzed by the country's political situation. He said Israel's wars had once provided writers with a vital source of inspiration. Today, Israeli writers avoided writing directly about the Arab-Israeli conflict. No major work had been produced about the intifada. Instead, writers were tackling themes such as Jewish identity, emigration from Israel and personal and family issues. Mr. Yehoshua admitted he also felt unable to write about the Israeli political situation. He could no longer step into an Israeli Arab's shoes and portray him as a real ""flesh and blood character"". He claimed that after 40 years of statehood, the problem of Israeli identity had not been solved. He said Jews remained too pre-occupied with the borders of identity between Jew and non-Jew, and were not concerned with the nature of that identity. Jewish values in Israel embraced every aspect of daily life, unlike in the diaspora, where Jews had no responsibility for the country they lived in, he said. He warned that modern Hebrew, a unifying force for the Jewish people, would have to struggle for its future, especially in literary circles. It faced fierce competition from the English language. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",17 "Re: When are two people married in God's e In article gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock) writes: >I am not against capital punishment. I feel this way because God is not >only a God of love, but a God of justice. As we Christians are the >instruments of His will here on earth, we are expected to be true to the >mandate given us by the Lord to judge the actions of our fellow man. > >My favorite Scriptural reference in this regard is Romans 13:1-7. > > Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for > there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have > been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority > opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will > bring judgment upon themselves. > >My views reflect the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. > I would say only to the extent that the Roman Catholic Church neither approves nor disapproves of capital punishment, as confirmed in the recent catechism, though there are many RCs who were rather surprised and upset that capital punishment was not explicitly condemned. For myself, as a Catholic, I see my own opposition to capital punishment as much the same as my opposition to abortion - a reverence for life. Here in the UK, the anti-abortion case is often let down by the explicit link which those on the political left make with anti-abortionists and pro-executionists. There is a tendency to condemn people who hold both views as hypocrites. I feel that if there were many more anti-abortionists who were also vocal in their opposition to capital punishment on a pro-life line, it would end this kneejerk association of anti-abortion as a right-wing thing, and get many to think seriously about the issue (there are plenty who are pro-abortion equally for a kneejerk left-wing reason). I do not think your biblical quote can automatically be taken as support for capital punishment. I take it that as a Roman Catholic you are opposed to abortion, and would still onsider it wrong, and something to be objected to even if legalised by ""authority"". Matthew Huntbach ",15 "Keyboards, Drives, Radios for sale! Hello. I have these items for sale. Terms are UPS COD or prepayment by money order. 2 101 keyboards for IBM compatibles 1 Mitsumi 1.2 MB 5 1/4 floppy disk drive 1 Sony SRF-M30 digital AM/FM Stereo Walkman The drive cost me $65, the keyboards were $40 each, and the Sony radio cost $45. I will sell for the best offers. Thank You. -- / / Buchanan in `96! / / Fear the goverment that fears your guns. \ \/ / Without the 2nd amendment, we cannot guarantee ou \/ / r freedoms. aj008@cleveland.freenet.edu ",6 "FM Transmitter Can anyone please email a diagram or give me details of an ftp site where there is a diagram of a simple, small fm mono voice transmitter for trasnmitting in the 90-104 range (preferably above 100 Mhz). Only a short distance requiered, and frequency variation no too important but must run from 9v or smaller DC supply. Thanx in advance Monty. -- /\ /\ __ __ /_ howeg@uk.ac.man.cs / \ / \ / / / / / / / howeg@cs.man.ac.uk __/ \/ \_/__/_/ /_/__/_/____________________________________________ ____________________________/ Save The Vinyl! ",12 "Regal fiberglass parts ?? I have a 1982 Regal and I am interested in buying a fiberglass hood, trunk, and bumpers for it. Does anybody know of a company who makes fiberglass parts for Regals ?? Thanks in advance, -Mike ",7 "Re: Question on EISA video board performance From article , by cfw@world.std.com (Christopher F Wroten): > I have an EISA machine and I just do not understand why most > EISA video cards only match the performance of their ISA > counterparts. For instance, the EISA Orchid Pro Designer IIs-E is > only about as ""fast"" as the ISA Diamond SpeedStar Plus, which isn't > what I would call ""fast."" > > I don't understand why EISA video cards aren't, as a group, on the > same level of performance as Local Bus cards, given that EISA video > cards have a 32 bit bus to move data around, instead of ISA's 8 bits. > Good question. Answer: The EISA bus does move 32 bits rather than ISA's 8/(16?) But it still moves it at about the speed as the ISA bus. I think that's either 8 or 10 mhz. The local bus designs also move 32 bits like the EISA, but they move the data at the cpu speed, up to 40 mhz. So, on a 33mhz cpu, the local bus is moving 32bit data at 33 mhz, and the EISA is moving 32bit data at 8 or 10 mhz. So the local bus should be 3 to 4 times faster than EISA on a 33 mhz cpu. EISA should be about two (maybe 3) times as fast as ISA. > Since they are not, why would anyone (me included) pay a higher > cost for a EISA video card when its performance is no better than > and often worse that a much cheaper ISA video board, such as a > Diamond SpeedStar 24X? From PC Magazine's (I think) recent report, > I know that ATI makes a pretty fast EISA video card, but it's > around $500, which is just about double what my wallet will allow > me to spend. And, for $500, I could get a Diamond Viper and still > have $100 left over (of course, I'd have to get a Local Bus mother- > board too...) > That's a very good question. The EISA bus does have more advantages over the ISA bus than just it's width. For example: more/better interrupts and bus mastering. But these other factors do not impact a video card very much. They have more impact on file servers with multiple hard drives, full-throttle network cards, cd-roms, etc. > Can anyone shed some light on my confusion/frustration? > > Thanks! Christopher Wroten, cfw@world.std.com > > ",2 "Re: This just in . . . . In article <1993Apr2.144102.7445@rd.hydro.on.ca>, jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes... >In article <1993Apr01.155407.11314@i88.isc.com> > jeq@lachman.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes: >>In article <1993Mar31.175023.18928@rchland.ibm.com> >> pooder@msus1.msus.edu writes: >>>>sampled recently were using unauthorized software, the Inspector General >>>>said in a new report. >>The Inspector General? >>Make way, for His Excellency, The Inspector General! >>(...Hail, hail to Brodney, to the sky...) >Behold the Lord High Executioner... >no, that's something else. I've already discussed this in e-mail with Jonathan. It's the film ""The Inspector General"" [:-)], with Danny Kaye, although I can't quote the name of the leading lady (Because Maltin doesn't :-(). Jonathan thinks there was an earlier Russian film; ""Movies on TV"" just says it was based on a Gogol (Yes, Jonathan, I looked it up again -- only two o's) story. Ivan Reid, Paul Scherrer Institute, CH. ivan@cvax.psi.ch GSX600F, RG250WD. SI=2.66 ""You Porsche. Me pass!"" DoD #484 ",8 "Re: how can 0.022 uF be different from two 0.047 in series?! In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > >This may be a safety issue; the CSA is more paranoid in certain areas than >UL and such. Two caps in series means that you don't have a short if one >of them shorts. Not necessarily true; a short in one, if near the maximum series voltage drop, will overvoltage the other one and short it too, more -- lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu / The only reason the world hasn't (really Bruce Bostwick) / dissolved into total chaos is that from the great state of TEXAS / Murphy's Law also applies to Murphy. ",12 "Re: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN! >>(Look at all that Teal!!!! BLEAH!!!!!!!!!) Indeed, if the color teal on a team's uniforms is any indication of the future, the Marlins are in dire trouble! Refer to the San Jose Sharks for proof... But I have hope for the Marlins. I was a sometime member of the Rene Lachemann fan club at the Oakland Coliseum, and have a deep respect for the guy. He's a gem. And, of course, Walt Weiss gives that franchise class. But yeah... whoever designed those uniforms was guilty of a paucity of style and imagination. Ugghhh! Lloyd R. Nebres, UC Berkeley Internet: lloyd@uclink.berkeley.edu Vox: (510) 848-9760 or 643-9390 ""Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 carrying a ton of CD-ROMs..."" ",9 "Re: Miscelaneous soon-to-have-baby questions In article , rmccown@world.std.com (Bob McCown) writes... >We're about to have our first baby, and have a few questions that we >dont seem to be able to get answered to our satisfaction. > >Reguarding having a baby boy circumsized, what are the medical pros >and cons? All we've heard is 'its up to the parents'. > Unfortonately, that truly is about the best summation of the research that there is. Advantages stated of circumcison included probably prevention of penile cancer, (which, interestingly, occurs mostly in men whose personal hygiene is exceptionally poor), simplicity of personal hygiene, prevention of urinary tract infections, and prevention of a unretractible foreskin, Disadvantages include infection from the procedure, pain, etc. I apologize; I am trying to pull this off the top of my head. I will post what I discovered in research; I did a paper on the topic in my research class in Nursing school. It really is a decision that is up to the parents. Some parents use the reasoning that they will ""look like Daddy"" and like their friends as justification. There is nothing wrong with this; just be sure it is what you want to do, since it is rather difficult to uncircumcise a male, although a major surgical procedure exists. >How about the pregnant woman sitting in a tub of water? We've heard >stories of infection, etc. How about after the water has broken? > As long as your membranes have not broken and you have not had any problems with your pregnancy, it should be OK to sit in a tub of water. HOWEVER, I WOULD RECOMMEND USING YOUR OWN BATHTUB IN YOUR OWN HOME! It is nearly impossible to guarantee the cleanliness and safety of ""public"" hot tubs. A nice warm bath can be very relaxing, especially if your back is killing you! And it would possibly be advisable to avoid bubble bath soap , esp. if you are prone to yeast infection. Hope these tips help you some. Elisa picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu ",13 "Dos window macros Does anyone know a program that will record keyboard sequences that I do in a windowed dos box? I would like to have something that starts a telnet program and then logs me into my accounts. Windows Recorder doesn't seem to be able to record the key sequences. Thanks, STeve ",2 "key event ----> window Hi there, Do someone of you have a program for sending a key event to another window but it MUST appear in that window.... I have used xsendevent.tar package but it does not do that !!! For example, if I get a program executing: -------------- #!/bin/sh read something .... .... echo $something .... .... -------------- and if I send the key event ""a,a"" to that window then I will get: something=a Thanks in advance. -- Gabriel Iban~ez C. gibanez@dcc.uchile.cl ",5 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article <1993Apr17.051701.3419@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes: >callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes: >: >> >: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if >: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your >: >alarm? I can think of worse things in the world. Glad you got out of there >: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun. >: >I think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be >honest: do you really care more about scum than about your car? Yo! Watch the attributions--I didn't say that! Again, this isn't an appropriate forum for discussions on whether you should shoot someone for property damage/vandalism/theft, but every responsible gun owner realizes that there are limits, and the punishment must fit the crime. I mean, think about it--is a (really) harmless prank worth killing over? As I said, the situation described (punks setting off alarms and taunting people to come out) could turn very ugly very quickly, and it is worth being prepared when your life is potentially on the line. James James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work... The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC ""It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has and all he's ever gonna have."" --Will Munny, ""Unforgiven"" ",7 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <15446@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: > Elf Sternberg: >> But if less than 10% of the population is gay, what can we say about >> these people who don't identify as gay but have demonstrated gay >> potential. Obviously, a large chunk of these people *chose* (or, more >> accurately, were forced to choose by force of religion and social >> sanction) to put those feelings aside, to be heterosexual. >> Obviously, Cramer and Kaldis fall into this category. > I can't speak for Kaldis; but ""force of religion and social sanction"" > played no part in my sexual preferences. Neither had much influence on > me as a teenager. You might as well have. You certainly would not have been in error if you would have. -- The views expressed herein are | Theodore A. Kaldis my own only. Do you seriously | kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu believe that a major university | {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis as this would hold such views??? | ",18 "Re: #77's? In article <1r23on$4p6@bigboote.WPI.EDU> ching@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (""The Logistician"") writes: >I am in need of all of the players wearing #77 in the NHL. I know now only >of one, Ray Borque for the Bruins. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I believe that Phil Esposito was the first to wear #77 when he played with the Rangers in the '70s. This was the season that they put the Rangers crest and ""modern-style"" numbers on the jerseys instead of the ""NEW YORK"" or ""RANGERS"" block letters and two-colour numbers. He took #77 because the Rangers already had a #7. (Hockey Night in Canada made a big thing out of it, saying it was the biggest uniform style change in a long time. This was before Pittsburgh and Vancouver changed their colours.) dwarf -- W. Jim Jordan ""I don't mean to tell you how to live dwarf@x400gate.bnr.ca (Internet) your life--that's what the TV's for-- I work for BNR; I do not speak for it. but if I didn't believe in Jesus, I'd be going to hell."" - Peter Heath ",10 "Re: Diamond SS24X, Win 3.1, Mouse cursor In <1993Apr15.204845.24939@nlm.nih.gov> dabl2@nlm.nih.gov (Don A.B. Lindbergh) writes: >Anybody seen mouse cursor distortion running the Diamond 1024x768x256 driver? >Sorry, don't know the version of the driver (no indication in the menus) but it's a recently >delivered Gateway system. Am going to try the latest drivers from Diamond BBS but wondered >if anyone else had seen this. Sporadically, yes. It seems to flicker, or change shape into snow briefly. Not enough to impair functionality, just call attention to Diamond's professional sloppiness. Rob -- Rob kudla@acm.rpi.edu Keywords - Oldfield Jane's Leather Yes Win3.1 Phish light blue right Bondage r.e.m. DTP Steely Dan DS9 FNM OWL Genesis In the spaceship, the silver spaceship, the lion takes control..... ",2 "Re: More Cool BMP files?? In article <1993Apr24.062055.7123@seas.gwu.edu> louray@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Panayiotakis) writes: >> >> >>>BEGIN ----------------------- CUT HERE --------------- >>>begin 666 ntreal.bmp >>>M0DTV5P< #8$ H ( , %@"" ! @ >>>M $ ! @@P![( @ ""!A> #!_F #CD ,56# #D. !=>_D >>>M4PA: &4H@P""L,1 $U); &N+L0 ($!@ +4WA !,J.0 B/%H 9TJ3 $KKZP 0 >>>M,;, TD4I /ZGB0!)#UH (0A. ""6E@ I !@ 4B!I "" ! !BBZX #!E1 )BV >> >>Deleted a lot of stuff!!!!!!! >>How do you convert this to a bit map??? > >You're supposed to delete everything above the ""cut here"" mark, and >below the lower cut here mark, and uudecode it. but >*I was not able to: unexpected end of file encountered at the last line. > >could you please re-post it, or tell be what I'm doing wrong? Sounds like the original poster of the bitmap uuencoded the file on a DOS machine, and you tried to uudecode it on a Un*x machine, and your uudecode program balked at the carraige-returns. ",2 "Re: SHARKS REVIEW Part 5: Left Wings paul@fugu.Data-IO.COM (Paul Brownlow) writes: >Wood played most of his junior career in Seattle. He was one >of the leading scorers on a mediocre team when he was traded away in >1992. He rarely lost a fight and was one of the toughest players in >the WHL. Wood is fairly small for an enforcer-type. I mean, Fleury does a pretty good job and isn't that large, but Dody is no Fleury. Having been witness to three or four of his fights closeup, he simply isn't ready to fight at an NHL level (assuming that it's his role, which is ALL he really showed us in his few games up from K.C. -- if he can pass, shoot or skate, I never saw much of it). All he has is a right fist, which isn't bad, but at the NHL level, the other players are smart enough to grab the thing before he can land anything significant. Once you control that hand, he's a fish flopping on the beach and the other player can do just about anything he wants to him. His entire strategy seemed to be keep the hand out of reach until he found an opening -- and I never once saw him find an opening worth talking about. He got neutralized quickly, and stomped on a couple of times. Unless he shows some new tricks in camp, he'll be on my ""career minor leaguer"" list. Since this was his first taste of the NHL, I expect the Sharks gave it to him so he'd KNOW what he'd have to work on off-season. He needs to get stronger, he needs to get more speed and he needs to show some versatility as something else than a simply goond, because he wasn't particularly good as a goon. -- Chuq ""IMHO"" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= chuq@apple.com Member, SFWA =+= Editor, OtherRealms =+= GEnie: MAC.BIGOT =+= ALink:CHUQ Minor League fans: minors-request@medraut.apple.com (San Jose Giants: A/1/9) San Francisco Giants fans: giants-request@medraut.apple.com (The Stick?NOT!) San Jose Sharks fans: sharks-request@medraut.apple.com (New seat: 127/TBD) ",10 "Re: Sphere from 4 points? In article <1qkgbuINNs9n@shelley.u.washington.edu> bolson@carson.u.washington.edu (Edward Bolson) writes: >Boy, this will be embarassing if it is trivial or an FAQ: >center and radius, exactly fitting those points? I know how to do it >for a circle (from 3 points), but do not immediately see a >straightforward way to do it in 3-D. I have checked some >geometry books, Graphics Gems, and Farin, but am still at a loss? >Please have mercy on me and provide the solution? Off the top of my head, I might try: Given: p_1, p_2, p_3, p_4 Find: p_c (center of sphere determined by p_1, ..., p_4), dist(p_c, p_i) (radius) p_c is the same distance from our four points, so dist(p_c,p_1) = dist(p_c,p_2) = dist(p_c,p_3) = dist(p_c,p_4) Of course, we can square the whole thing to get rid of square roots: distsq(p_c,p_1) = distsq(p_c,p_2) = distsq(p_c,p_3) = distsq(p_c,p_4) Plug in the variables into the distance formula, simplify, and the x^2_c, y^2_c, and z^2_c terms cancel out, leaving you with three linearly independent equations and three unknowns (x_c, y_c, z_c). Solve using your favorite method. :) All the best, - John :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. John S. Eickemeyer :: ""The Lord God is subtle, Information Technology Institute :::: but malicious He is not."" National Computer Board, Singapore :: Email: johne@iti.gov.sg :: - Albert Einstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",1 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article lefty@apple.com (Lefty) writes: #In article <1qu0f6$489@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank #O'Dwyer) wrote: #> #> In article <30134@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: #> #In article <1qjbn0$na4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #> # #> # #> #>Really? You don't know what objective value is? If I offered the people #> #>of the U.S., collectively, $1 for all of the land in America, would that #> #>sound like a good deal? #> # #> #That happens to be a subjective example that the people of the #> #US would happen to agree on. Continue to move the price up; #> #at some point a few people would accept then more then more until #> #probably all would accept at a high enough number. #> #> And this ""high enough number"" is...? :-) #> #> My point is that the deal is bad, and pretty much anyone can see it is so. # #Really? I suspect my neighbor would jump at your deal. # #Of course, she's only three, but if it were ""objectively"" bad, you wouldn't #think it would make a difference... And my two-year old says there is a white volvo across the street. But there isn't. If matter were objective, you wouldn't think it would make a difference... No, failed that one. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Re: Why is my mouse so JUMPY? (MS MOUSE) ecktons@ucs.byu.edu (Sean Eckton) writes: >I have a Microsoft Serial Mouse and am using mouse.com 8.00 (was using 8.20 >I think, but switched to 8.00 to see if it was any better). Vertical motion >is nice and smooth, but horizontal motion is so bad I sometimes can't click >on something because my mouse jumps around. I can be moving the mouse to >the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly >for a bit, then jump to the right, then move smoothly for a bit then jump >again (maybe this time to the left about .5 inch!). This is crazy! I have >never had so much trouble with a mouse before. Anyone have any solutions? Try this: flip your mouse over, and open up the cover that holds the mouse ball in place. Remove the ball, and inside you should see (probably) 3 rollers. If any of the rollers have a tiny layer of caked-on dirt, dust, or otherwise unidentifiable scum on them, carefully scrape it off with a small knife (Xacto works great). *Be Careful* You do not want to gauge the rollers, just clean off the dirt. Put the ball back in, put the cover on, and there you are. I clean a couple of dozen of these every month here. Another symptom is that when you move the mouse, it seems to ""click"" along. If this doesn't solve your problem, at least you have a clean mouse. I highly recommend using a proper _soft_ mouse pad, and if you are a clean freak, place it in your drawer every night or when you don't use it to keep the dust off. Personally I prefer track balls. Oh, which brings me to another point: if your mouse or trackball tracks optically, and the sunlight is streaming through the window onto your mouse/trackball, you may notice that it will stop working. If this happens to you, close the curtains or blinds, or simply shade your pointing device, and see if that helps. -- Peter Goudswaard _________ _________ goudswaa@sfu.ca (preferred) | | __/^\__ | | pgoudswa@cln.etc.bc.ca | | \ / | | pgoudswa@cue.bc.ca | | _/\_\ /_/\_ | | | | > < | | ""There's no gift like the present"" | >_________< | | - Goudswaard's observation |_________| | |_________| ",2 "Re: dogs In article <93Apr20.193958.30419@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes: }Sheesh, even a trained attack dog is no match for a human, }we have *all* the advantages. I agree with this 100%. After all, when you grab under his chin and are careful to keep your hands away from his twisting head, what is he going to do -- tailwag you to death? I even had one occasion where I was unexpectedly jumped by a 130 lb. German Shepherd and grabbed his upper jaw in one hand and his lower jaw in the other. Now I'm holding his mouth open (no way is he strong enough to clamp down) and he can do nothing. HOWEVER, all this macho shit aside, the fact is that when you are riding a bike and a dog is arrowing to intercept, it may be unwise for you to stop and try to deal with the dog, for the simple fact that it might be through your leathers and working on your jeans before you can dismount and deal with it properly. By all means, if you do kick the dog or otherwise get its attention, STOP and STAY there. If you kick the dog and ride away, that is a victory for the dog -- it drove you out of its territory. It is not even a qualified victory, it is a victory. If you kick it and STOP, and sit there, 99% of dogs will say, ""Oh, shit! This guy's serious!"" and back off. Now you have established your dominance over the dog, and it probably will not bother you again. Llamas, however, are a different story. If you stop near a llama, it will just hop on and insist on a ride. And that's if you're lucky; if it doesn't like you it'll barf you off the bike and steal it! -- Curtis Jackson cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com '91 Hawk GT '81 Maxim 650 DoD#0721 KotB '91 Black Lab mix ""Studley Doright"" '92 Collie/Golden ""George"" ""There is no justification for taking away individuals' freedom in the guise of public safety."" -- Thomas Jefferson ",8 "Re: Jewish Baseball Players? In article <1993Apr19.022425.29145@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes: >In article bbs-comarow@jwt.oau.org writes: >>Dave Kingman is Jewish > >Sez who? Sez Dave Kingman when he used to take off for Rosh Hashanna and Yom Kippur on days they coincided with the season. -- scott barman | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell): scott@asd.com | mail mets-request@asd.com <, Clarke@bdrc.bd.com (Richard Clarke) writes: |> final trajectory. Too bad it didn't notice the car approaching at 50+mph .... |> from the other direction. |> |> I got a closeup view of the our poor canine friend's noggin careening off |> the front bumper, smacking the asphalt, and getting runover by the front |> tire. It managed a pretty good yelp, just before impact. (peripheral |> imminent doom?) I guess the driver didn't see me or they probably would have |> swerved into my lane. The squeegeed pup actually got up and headed back |> home, but I haven't seen it since. |> Same thing to me. Everyday the same dog would chase my bicycle. The owners thought it was cute. Even after I got the moto, the stupid dog would do the same thing. Then one day, I was coming home in the opposite lane...the fluff with teeth ran to get me and played momentum sharing with a 73 Dodge pick. The owners tried to blame me for driving down street when I did. I lived in a wierd town. ============================================================================= = The Beav |Mike Beavington|BellNorthernResearch Ottawa,Ont,Canada| Dod:9733= = Seca 400->Seca 400->RZ350->Seca750->Suzuki550->Seca650turbo->V65Sabre = = (-> 1994 GTS1000 ...can't afford the '93) | mbeaving@bnr.ca = = Parking spaces? We don't need no steenkin' parking spaces! = ============================================================================= ",8 "Convertable FOR SALE in San Diego. I am selling my FIAT 850 Spyder: This sleek little convertable has served me well through my past year in San Diego, but I am going away for the summer and I have nowhere to keep it, so on the aution block it goes. 1971 Fiat 850 Sport White body White Hard Top (refurbished) Ivory Convertable Top (refurbished) New Black interior Come with high performance exhaust system Larger rebuilt engine (910 instead of 805) Car mats Smog checked, registered until 1994 This is the ultimate in San Diego driving. I will not guarantee that this car will attract people to you of the opposite gender, but they will ask for a ride. One warning, this is a high performance Italian SPORTS car, if you want a boring little set of wheels this is NOT the car for you, this car requires care. It has a manual choke, a 4-speed manual transmision, manual throttle control, and even manual wiper pump. If you KNOW how to drive then and only then can you appreciate this car. Feel free to inquire. The price is $1750 and all inspection has to be in the San Diego area since school keeps me here all the time. Quill -- _________________________ _____________________________________________ |-=[ Quill ]=- |""Have you looked at your hands? No, I mean | | PH# (619)294-4412 |REALLY looked at your hands?"" Doonesbury | |_________________________|_____________________________________________| ",7 "Re: XV 3.00 has escaped! > It is interesting to look at the change(s) of mind that John has had. Very interested indeed! This is against this kind of ""changes"" that the GNU COPYLEFT is protecting us. Anyway, at SIMULOG, we will abandon xv. We were using it mostly for slide- shows because of its ""-loop"" feature that display does not have (display from the *wonderful* ImageMagick package! :-D), but I think I will implement it myself (even a shell-script should do the job) and forget xv. Cheers, Christophe. -- muller@simulog.fr = Are you the police? -- No ma'am, we're musicians. = ",5 "Re: NEWS YOU MAY HAVE MISSED, Apr 20 In article <1993Apr19.165514.17138@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> bf3833@pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com (feigenbaum,benjamin) writes: >In article <1qu7op$456@genesis.MCS.COM>, arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: >> >> NEWS YOU MAY HAVE MISSED, APR 19, 1993 >> >> Not because you were too busy but because >> Israelists in the US media spiked it. >> >> ................ >> >> >> THOSE INTREPID ISRAELI SOLDIERS >> >> >> Israeli soldiers have sexually taunted Arab women in the occupied Gaza Strip >> during the three-week-long closure that has sealed Palestinians off from the >> Jewish state, Palestinian sources said on Sunday. >> >> The incidents occurred in the town of Khan Younis and involved soldiers of >> the Golani Brigade who have been at the centre of house-to-house raids for >> Palestinian activists during the closure, which was imposed on the strip and >> occupied West Bank. >> If you are as revolted at this as I am, drop Israel's best friend email and >> let him know what you think. >> >> >> 75300.3115@compuserve.com (via CompuServe) >> clintonpz@aol.com (via America Online) >> clinton-hq@campaign92.org (via MCI Mail) >> >> >> Tell 'em ARF sent ya. >> >> .................................. >> >> If you are tired of ""learning"" about American foreign policy from what is >> effectively, Israeli controlled media, I highly recommend checking out the >> Washington Report. A free sample copy is available by calling the American >> Education Trust at: >> (800) 368 5788 >> >> Tell 'em arf sent you. >> >> js >> >> >> > >I took your advice and ordered a copy of the Washinton Report. I >heartily recommend it to all pro-Israel types for the following >reasons: > >1. It is an excellent absorber of excrement. I use it to line > the bottom of my parakeet's cage. A negative side effect is > that my bird now has a somewhat warped view of the mideast. > >2. It makes a great April Fool's joke, i.e., give it to someone > who knows nothing about the middle east and then say ""April > Fools"". > Clearly, if a Chutzpa reacts this way, it must be worth reading by more objective types. You are so wrapped up in your hate that you can't even take the time to edit out my long posting. Thanks for the extra milege by reposting it. ",17 "Camera bags for sale 1. Large padded Cordura bag (maker unknown) nge exterior, black straps and interior. Five outside pocket plus lid compartment. Lid overlaps. Internal dividers can be repositioned. Held my whole 2-1/4 Bronica system, Metz flash, etc. $50. 2. Small ""Nikon"" shoulder bag. SORRY. SOLD & SHIPPE. 3. Small ""Nikon"" belt pouch. Khaki like #2. Similar in design Army ammo pouch - belt clips, etc. Holds flash or small zoom, lens cleaner, etc. $5. 4. Domke belt pouch, black. Also has metal loops of you want to attach strap. Velcro closure. Similar to #3 in concept, but bigger. Holds 35-135 zoom or flash, small accessories, etc. Hardly used; cost me $20 originally - will sell for $15. 5. Coast camera bag - tan with brown strap. Main and front pocket. Can hold AF slr with small zoom plus flash, film, etc. Matl looks like Gore-Tex but I don't think it really is. $15. TERMS: Payment in advance by money order/bank check, or cash. Buyer pays shipping. #1 must go UPS. For the others, send me an adequate self addressed mailing envelope (padded recommended) with enough postage. /|/| /||)|/ /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion. / | |/ ||\|\ \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_| | goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil ========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein======= /|/| /||)|/ /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion. / | |/ ||\|\ \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_| | goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil ========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein======= ",6 "Re: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis In article bh437292@lance.colostate.edu writes: [BH] Tsiel, [BH] I would contend that there was shelling from both sides of the border, [BH] starting from the early 70's. Certainly the PLO did shell Northern [BH] Israel from the Arqoub region, but Israel did much more shelling [BH] destroying several South Lebanese villages. At the very least [BH] we can say that both sides exchanged shelling, with occasional [BH] aerial raids by Israel on Lebanese villages. [BH] In any case Steve's characterization that the 1982 invasion was only in [BH] response to years of shelling from Lebanon is false. Israel had [BH] many reasons for invading but mainly it did so to install a government [BH] in Lebanon favorable to Israel, and it nearly achieved this aim [BH] with the election of Basheer El Gemayel, and his brother, Amin [BH] El Gemayel, but the internal situation in Lebanon was too hard [BH] to control and predict so Israel had to withdraw, and Amin El Gemayel [BH] had to abrogate the 17 th of May Agreement. Basil, I was only correcting Steve's statement that Geurillas were shelling Israel from the Golan, which was absurd. The fact that ""Israel did much more shelling"" was in response to Palestinian shelling from Lebanon. Israel has no intention of keeping an inch of Lebanese territory. Israel will continue to fight Hizbullah, PLO, FPLP etc. as long as its northern border is not quiet. If the Lebanese army can control these elements then I think we can see genuine peace on the Israel-Lebanese border. I remind you that a couple thousand Lebanese cross each day into Israel to work. As for the election of Bashir Gemayel, it is true that he was favorable to Israel, is that why the Syrians killed him? His brother Amin was a Syrian puppet, if he had not been, he would have been dead by now. Tsiel -- ----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------ Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible. opinions, if any ! | Two percent of zero is almost nothing. ",17 "Re: Hunter on DL, Klesko up. steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes: >In <13557@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes: >>As a touter of Braves prospects, all I can say is that, IMO, >>someone on the Braves roster is about to become Pipped. >>It may not even be Hunter. But I think they'll have a >>problem getting Klesko out of the lineup once he's in. >Well, this may be good news. If Klesko hits, I'd look for Bream to be >traded (if possible) or released, since Bream is also a lefthander. Hope >Klesko hits. According to the Atlanta paper, Bream will be the full-time first baseman with Klesko used as a late-inning defensive replacement if Bream is lifted for a pinch-runner. He'd have to hit a homer in his first AB (or win the game or do some other amazing thing) to be rewarded with a start so he could even attempt to push Hunter or Bream out of the lineup. ---------------+ Kurt in Atlanta hoyt@cc.gatech.edu kwh@salestech.com 70242.652@compuserve.com politics: from the Greek -- poli = many; tics = ugly, blood-sucking parasites ",9 "$1bil space race ideas/moon base on the cheap. Although the $1 billion scheme is a fantasy (it's an old canard in the space business called ""trolling for billionaires""), there is a good chance that a much smaller program ($65 million) will pass the 103rd Congress. This is the Back to the Moon bill, put together by the people who passed the Launch Services Purchase Act. The bill would incent private companies to develop lunar orbiters, with vendors selected on the basis of competitive bidding. There is an aggregate cap on the bids of $65 million. Having a single rich individual paying billions for lunar missions is probably worse than having the government bankroll a $65 million program, as the Delta Clipper program has shown (DC-X was funded by SDIO at $59 million). We have a clear chance of making a lunar mission happen in this decade - as opposed to simply wishing for our dreams to come true. Please support the Back to the Moon bill. For more information, please send E-mail with your U.S. postal service address. --- Maximus 2.01wb ",14 "Re: Help with ultra-long timing In article , mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes: |> (1) Don't use big capacitors. They are unreliable for timing due to |> leakage. |> |> Instead, use a quartz crystal and divide its frequency by 2 40 times |> or something like that. |> |> 1 MHz divided by 2^40 = 1 cycle per 2 weeks, approximately. |> |> (2) I wouldn't expect any components (other than batteries or electrolytic |> capacitors) to fail at -40 C (or -40 F for that matter either :) ). |> The battery is going to be your big problem. Also, of course, your |> circuit shouldn't depend on exact values of resistors (which a crystal- |> controlled timer won't). |> ... Wouldn't a crystal be affected by cold? My gut feeling is that, as a mechanically resonating device, extreme cold is likely to affect the compliance (?terminology?) of the quartz, and hence its resonant frequency. |> -- |> :- Michael A. Covington internet mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ***** |> :- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : ********* |> :- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * * |> :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** JohnH ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ |_ _ |_| _ _| _| Electronics Department |_| (_) | | | | | | (_| (_| (_| \/ School of MPCE ---------------------------------/- Macquarie University Sydney, AUSTRALIA 2109 Email: johnh@mpce.mq.edu.au, Ph: +61 2 805 8959, Fax: +61 2 805 8983 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",12 "Re: New to Motorcycles... Gregory Humphreys (gregh@niagara.dcrt.nih.gov) wrote: Greg, I'm very new to motorcycles. Haven't even bought one yet. I was in the same position about you. How do you learn if you've never ridden. I took a class put on by a group called the Motorcycle Safety Foundation in California. They might have something similar in Washington. Try calling a motorcycle dealer in your area and asking. It's a good first start on how to ride a motorcycle correctly. ",8 "Re: Blast them next time In article <1r19l9$7dv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> oldham@ces.cwru.edu (Daniel Oldham) writes: [flame-bait, pure and simple] -- ",16 "Re: what are the problems with nutrasweet (aspartame) In article <1993Apr17.181013.3743@uvm.edu> hbloom@moose.uvm.edu (*Heather*) writes: >Nutrasweet is a synthetic sweetener a couple thousand times sweeter than >sugar. Some people are concerned about the chemicals that the body produces >when it degrades nutrasweet. It is thought to form formaldehyde and known to >for methanol in the degredation pathway that the body uses to eliminate >substances. The real issue is whether the levels of methanol and formaldehyde >produced are high enough to cause significant damage, as both are toxic to >living cells. All I can say is that I will not consume it. [...] In the September 1992 issue of THE TUFTS UNIVERSITY DIET AND NUTRITION LETTER, there is a three page article about artificial sweeteners. What follows are those excerpts which deal specifically with Nutrasweet. [Reproduced without permission] The controversy [over aspartame] began six years ago in England, where a group of researchers found that aspartame, marketed under the tradename Nutrasweet, appears to stimulate appetite and, presumably, the eating of more calories in the long run than if a person simply consumed sugar. When researchers asked a group of 95 people to drink plain water, aspartame-sweetened water, and sugared water, they said that overall they felt hungriest after drinking the artificially sweetened beverage. The study received widespread media attention and stirred a good deal of concern among the artificial-sweetener-using public. However, its results were questionable at best, since the researchers did not go on to measure whether the increase in appetite did actually translate into an increase in eating. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand. In the years that followed, more than a dozen studies examining the effect of aspartame on appetite -- and eating -- were conducted. And after reviewing every one of them, the director of the Laboratory of the Study of Human Ingestive Behavior at Johns Hopkins University, Barbara Rolls, Ph.D., concluded that consuming aspartame- sweetened foods and drinks is not associated with any increase in the amount of food eaten afterward. One artificial sweetener that is not typically accused of causing cancer is aspartame. But it most certainly has been blamed for a host of other ills. Since its introduction in 1981, the government has received thousands of complaints accusing it of causing everything from headaches to nausea to mood swings to anxiety. Still, years of careful scientific study conducted both before and after the sweetener's entering the market have failed to confirm that it can bring about adverse health effects. That's why the Centers for Disease Control (the government agency charged with monitoring public health), the American Medical Association's Council on Scientific Affairs, and the Food and Drug Administration have given aspartame, one of the most studied food additives, a clean bill of health. Granted, the FDA has set forth an ""acceptable daily intake"" of 50 milligrams of aspartame per kilogram of body weight. To exceed the limit, however, a 120-pound (55 kg.) woman would have to take in 2,750 milligrams of aspartame -- the amount in 15 cans of aspartame-sweetened soda pop, 14 cups of gelatin, 22 cups of yogurt, or 55 six-ounce servings of aspartame-containing hot cocoa,... A 175-pound (80 kg.) man would have to consume some 4,000 milligrams of the sweetener -- the amount in 22 cans of soda pop or 32 cups of yogurt -- to go over the limit. [chart with aspartame content of selected foods omitted] Only one small group of people must be certain to stay away from aspartame: those born with a rare metabolic disorder called phenylketonuria, or PKU. The estimated one person in every 12,000 to 15,000 who has it is unable to properly metabolize an essential amino acid in aspartame called phenylalanine. Once a child consumes it, it builds up in the body and can ultimately cause such severe problems as mental retardation. To help people with PKU avoid the substance, labels on cans of soda pop and other aspartame-sweetened foods must carry the warning ""Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine."" -Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.) ",13 "Benediktine Metaphysics Benedikt Rosenau writes, with great authority: > IF IT IS CONTRADICTORY IT CANNOT EXIST. ""Contradictory"" is a property of language. If I correct this to THINGS DEFINED BY CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE DO NOT EXIST I will object to definitions as reality. If you then amend it to THINGS DESCRIBED BY CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE DO NOT EXIST then we've come to something which is plainly false. Failures in description are merely failures in description. (I'm not an objectivist, remember.) -- C. Wingate + ""The peace of God, it is no peace, + but strife closed in the sod. mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing: tove!mangoe + the marv'lous peace of God."" ",0 "Re: New Duo Dock info. In article <16BAA771E.C558172@mizzou1.missouri.edu> , C558172@mizzou1.missouri.edu writes: >Why no. It is a little known fact that NO macs have a CPU. They are all >connected via a cellular network to the Cray supercomputer in Apple's >garage (that's right the same one where Steve & Steve built the Apple \\). >--Shannon Silly you. Don't you know the only division at Apple allowed to use the Cray is the legal department? - Gordon ",4 "Moving On Well, it's been fun. This is my last day at Bellcore and It will be a while before I have net access again (taking time off and scheduling Military Schools for the summer on joint operations, and anything else that looks good). I have had a blast reading, responding and commenting on things posted here. My final say is 9mm's are inferior to .45's errr oh wrong news group. Hopefully I'll be back. I guess ""internet withdrawl"" starts around 1pm or so and considering I never knew inet existed 2 years ago I am really going to miss it. OH yea, to the guy who called me this morning about the ""Military issue"" boots, good luck, I think you will be happy with the tankers boots. -- ########################################################## There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES and TARGETS !!! #1/XS1100LH DoD #956 #2 Next raise Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063 Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist #include My opinions are my own!!! I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo in the same store. ",8 "Re: PICT, EPSF, etc map of Italy In article <93132.025641CHUNTER@UMAB.BITNET> writes: >Does anybody know where I can get a graphic (Mac PICT, EPSF, TIFF, GIF, >whatever) of Italy? I'm looking for a picture of a map of Italy (even just the A map of Italy showing the states/provinces(?) is in the FreeHand 3.1 for Windows clip art collection. Corel Draw 3.0 clip art has an outline map of Italy. -- / Jim Powlesland / INTERNET: powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca / Academic Computing Services / VOICE: (403)220-7937 / University of Calgary / MESSAGE: (403)220-6201 / Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2N 1N4 / FAX: (403)282-9199 ",1 "Re: Windows gripe... > There's one thing about Windows that really frosts me. >I have 20MB of RAM installed in my system. I use a 5MB (2.5MB >under Windows) disk-cache, and a 4MB permanent swap file. > > While I can never fill the memory up, I still have problems >sometimes because I run out of GDI resources. What gives? >I think Windows could manage these resources a little better. > Are you using Windows 3.0 or 3.1? If you're still on 3.0, 3.1 devotes about twice as much memory to these and runs out much less frequently. If 3.1, you might use one of the resource monitors (such as the one that comes with the Windows 3.1 Resource Kit or one of the many shareware ones available) to see which programs are hogging the resources (every icon, internal graphics brush, etc. in every program running uses a certain amount of this limited memory area. Also, some don't give it back when they're finished). Lamont Downs downs@nevada.edu ",2 "Belcher terrific; Tomlin not; Reds win 5-0: RedReport 4-20 Tim Belcher pitched a dandy three-hit shut-out tonight as Cincinnati won their second straight 5-0. Pittsburgh Lefty Randy Tomlin was hit early and often by the heavily right-unbalanced Reds line-up, which managed some recently rare power with their bats. Belcher (1-1) was solid throughout and in fact seemed to get stronger as the game progressed. Early on he had several three-ball counts, but even those were few and far between later on as he allowed only one base-on-balls while striking out nine. In a post game interview he said his change-up was working for him--I should say so: all nine of his strikeouts were apparently on breaking balls. Tomlin (0-1), on the other hand was in trouble early, giving up a second-pitch double to lead-off batter Bip Roberts. Bobby Kelly followed with a single and Barry Larkin scored Roberts with a sharp single to right. The big guys (Mitchell, Sabo, Milligan) were unable to get anything after that--in fact they all struck out--but Kelly managed a score anyway due to a double-steal and a Tomlin wild pitch. In fact, it appeared that Tomlin was going to recover nicely from his shaky start-- he retired 9 of the next 11 batters to get to the fourth behind only 2-0. Randy Milligan, though, had different ideas as his line-shot was poorly played by Orlando Merced and turned into a triple. Milligan would later score on Reggie Sanders' sacrifice fly, giving Cinci the 3-0 lead after 4. The fifth inning spelled loss for Tomlin when Roberts led off with his second double of the game, and one batter later Larkin smacked a double down the left field line, chasing Tomlin. Barry later would score the final run on Tom Prince's two-base passed ball. The Pirates managed their only threat of the day in the bottom half of the fifth when Merced and Kevin Young hit back-to-back singles (the second being of the ""bunt"" variety), but Carlos Garcia struck out, Prince fit a foul fly, and pinch-hitter Lonnie Smith ""K'd"" to end any Pittsburgh hope. Pittsburgh pitchers backed Tomlin up well, though: relievers Blas Minor, Moeller (sp?), and Nagel gave up only two hits in their four-plus innings work. Barry Larkin left the game in the seventh when the grounder he (mis)played bruised his right thumb. He was taken to the hospital for ""precautionary X-rays"". Let's hope he's OK. Cincinnati is now 4-9, still the worst record in the majors, but with the two wins they may be looking at moving out of the cellar! Pittsburgh is now 7-6. *********REDS FANS*************************** If you would like to receive this report on a semi-daily basis (as often as I write it), send me your e-mail address and I'll put you on the list. If someone has a Reds mailing list, please forward it to me and I'll put everyone on the list!! ********************************************* CINCINNATI REDS AB R H K BB LO -----------------------------------------------|--------------------------- Roberts 2b 4 2 2 1 0 1 Kelly cf 4 1 1 0 0 0 Larkin ss 3 1 3 0 0 0 Branson ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mitchell lf 4 0 1 1 0 0 Hernandez lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 Sabo 3b 4 0 0 1 0 1 Milligan 1b 4 1 1 2 0 1 Sanders rf 3 0 0 2 0 0 Oliver c 4 0 2 2 0 0 Belcher p 4 0 0 2 0 1 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Totals 34 5 10 11 0 4 3b Milligan (off Tomlin, leading off fourth, scored) 2b Roberts (off Tomlin, leading off first, scored) Roberts (off Tomlin, leading off fifth, scored) Larkin (off Tomlin, in fifth, one out, runner on second, RBI, scored) SF Sanders RBI Larkin 2, Sanders SB Kelly, Larkin GDP Sabo PITTSBURGH PIRATES AB R H K BB LO -----------------------------------------------|--------------------------- Martin lf 4 0 0 0 0 1 Bell ss 4 0 0 1 0 0 Van Slyke cf 4 0 0 0 0 0 King 3b 3 0 0 2 1 0 Merced rf 3 0 1 1 0 0 Young 1b 2 0 1 1 0 0 Garcia 2b 3 0 0 2 0 1 Prince c 3 0 1 0 0 0 Tomlin p 1 0 0 0 0 0 Minor p 0 0 0 0 0 0 Smith ph 1 0 0 1 0 2 Moeller p 0 0 0 0 0 0 Waynor ph 1 0 0 1 0 0 Nagel p 0 0 0 0 0 0 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29 0 3 9 1 4 GDP Merced --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cincinnati 2 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 0 ----- 5 11 1 Pittsburgh 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ----- 0 3 0 Pitching IP R ER H K BB Cincinnati Belcher (W 1-1) 9 0 0 3 9 1 CG (1), SO (1) $$$LINE OF THE DAY!!!$$$ E- Larkin Pittsburgh Tomlin (L 0-1) 4 1/3 5 5 9 6 0 Minor 2/3 0 0 1 0 0 Moeller 2 0 0 0 3 0 Nagel 1 0 0 1 2 0 WP- Tomlin PB- Prince Umps Rippley/Hallion/Quick/Crawford Att-9,077 T-2:14 Coming up: The Reds play two more in Pitts, then go to Chicago for a weekend series. The weather doesn't look good, though-- don't be surprised if one or more games get rained out. Tomorrow, 7:35, Jose Rijo vs. Steve Cook, then Smiley vs. Wakefield on Thursday. RStimets ",9 "DEC or PC Graphics Tools I am applying for an NSF grant to buy equipment for a laboratory... The lab will need to support C (or Pascal) with graphics tools... We can run the lab either on PC's or DEC equipment --- If you are familiar with appropriate products (software/hardware) and precise prices. Please contact shai@lcc.stonehill.edu We are interested in any available acadmic discounts.... Also, if anyone runs a lab using similar software/hardware, I would be very interested in hearing your opinions of its success Thanks Shai SImonson Stonehill College N easton Ma 02357 e ",1 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr21.230622.6138@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes: >> That is what the survivors claim. I'd like to see some evidence >> that people that everyone agrees were not going to commit suecide >> actually did it. > >I'm not sure I understand that last sentance...can you re-state it? The FBI claims, on the basis of their intelligence reports, that BD's had no plans to commit suecide. They, btw, had bugged the place and were listening to BD's conversations till the very end. Koresh's attorney claims that, based on some 30 hours he spent talking to his client and others in the compound, he saw no indication that BD's were contemplating suecide. The survivors claim it was not a suecide. BD's were not contemplating suecide, and there is no reason to believe they committed one. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",18 "Re: Kubota Kenai/Denali specs In article <1rkntjINNd00@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>, lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes: > Okay, I got enough replies about the Kubota Kenai/Denali systems that I > will post a summary of their capabilities. [ ... ] > > GRAPHICS > > Transform Modules 1-6 1-6 > Frame Buffer Modules 5,10,20 5,10,20 > Frame Buffer 1280x1024x24bit 1280x1024x24bit > double buffered double buffered > Z-buffer 24-bit 24-bit > Alpha/stencil 8-bit 8-bit ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does this mean they can either do alpha or stenciling, but not both simultaneously? > Stereo support yes yes > Other: both machines will double buffer or do ^^ > stereo output per window. Both have an > auxiliary video output that is RS-170A, > NTSC, and PAL Same question again, does this mean they can either do double buffering or stereo, but not both simultaneously? -- -paul pmartz@dsd.es.com Evans & Sutherland ",1 "Religion and marriage I wasn't sure if this was the right newsgroup to post this to, but I guess the misc is there for a reason. Here goes... I am getting married in June to a devout (Wisconsin Synod) Lutheran. I would classify myself as a strong agnostic/weak athiest. This has been a a subject of many discussions between us and is really our only real obstacle. We don't have any real difficulties with the religious differences yet, but I expect they will pop up when we have children. I have agreed to raise the children ""nominally"" Lutheran. That is, Lutheran traditions, but trying to keep an open mind. I am not sure if this is even possible though. I feel that that the worst quality of being devoutly religous is the lack of an open mind. Anyway, I guess I'll get on with my question. Is anyone in the same situation and can give some suggestions as to how to deal with this? We've taken the attitude so far of just talking about it a lot and not letting anything get bottled up inside. Sometimes I get the feeling we're making this much bigger than it actually is. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Also, please e-mail responses since I don't get a chance to read this group often. :-( Paul ",19 "Bigger window headings Does anyone know of bigger raster fonts? I'm using a Mag 15H monitor with a Diamond SS24X in 1280x1024 mode and would prefer to have larger characters for the windows heading (practically for everything). I'm already using the 8514 character sets. mark Any idea of the difference between the 15H and the 15F? ",2 "They guy who bad-mouthed Ulf... Ditto... If we allow people like him to continue to do what he does, it's a shame. People say that cheap shots and drawing penalties by fake- ing is part of the game, I say ""Bullsh-t!"". If he ever tried some like that on a Yzerman, he'd would have to deal with Probert now wouldn't he? What Ulf does isn't even retaliatory! There's now way one could justify what he does and if they do they're fools. /----\==========/ Patrick Walker / /--\ =========/ University of New Brunswick I I()I ======/ Canada \ \--/ / Detroit Fan Extraordinaire. \----/ ",10 "Re: NL vs. AL? In article <1993Apr13.184311.16351@news.yale.edu>, (Sean Garrison) says: > >In article <93102.164224RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>, RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu >wrote: > >> pitchers who are doing well are >> more likely to be taken out of the game in the nl than they are in the al, >> so it seems to me that the al, not the nl, promotes pitchers' duels. >> >> bob vesterman. > > >On what basis do you make this statement? > > Q Sean are you serious? pitchers are pinch-hit for in the nl. they are not in the nl. if a pitcher is cranking in the al, he will stay in the game. if he is cranking in the nl, he may not - ESPECIALLY if it's a pitchers' duel, and his team needs an extra run. bob vesterman. ",9 "PRK (Photo Refractive Keratostomy) For those of you interested in the above Procedure, I am able to add the following facts: 1) This Procedure is not done in Philadelphia. 2) It is performed in Maryland at Johns Hopkins for corrections between 0 and -5 and from -10 to -20 (diopters, I think are the units). 3) It is performed in New York City at Manhattan Eye and Ear for corrections between 0 and -6. The magic words to use when requesting information on this is not PRK (they think you mean RK) but the excimer laser study (or protocol). This will get you to the proper people. -- Barry D. Benowitz EMail: bbenowit@telesciences.com (...!pyrnj!telesci!bbenowit) Phone: +1 609 866 1000 x354 Snail: Telesciences CO Systems, 351 New Albany Rd, Moorestown, NJ, 08057-1177 ",13 "**** WANNA SEX !!! **** Hello, you're not quite sure if that's a joke or not? Anyway you read the article! --> You're right!!! (1. The header (only this) IS a joke, 2. it's worth reading) Perhaps some of you know my regular 'List of IDE Harddisk specs' where I give all available information about IDE Harddrives. I am strongly interested in contacting the manufacturers directly. But I have no money for overseas calls, so I need HARDDISK MANUFACTURER's EMAIL ADDRESSES Please help if you can! Carsten. ********************************************************************* Carsten Grammes Internet: ph12hucg@rz.uni-sb.de Experimental Physics Voicenet: 49-681-302-3032 Universitaet Saarbruecken Faxnet : 49-681-302-4316 6600 Saarbruecken Germany ********************************************************************* ",3 "Reds Without Sleeves (was Re: New Uniforms) Am I the only person who thinks the Reds sleeveless uniforms are ugly? Yet another reason why they won't win the NL West! ;) ------------------------------------------------------- Eric Roush fierkelab@ bchm.biochem.duke.edu ""I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"" Grafitti, Paris, 1968 TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.) -------------------------------------------------------- ",9 "Re: Windows zip/unzip In article <1rl9b6$h3c@sol.deakin.OZ.AU> russ@deakin.OZ.AU (Russ Sharp) writes: >We are using pkzip V2.04 and I am interested to hear from >people who have used one of the many Windows programs that >call these. > >Which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst >the rest? > >Is there a full windows version that does not call the DOS >PKZIP/PKUNZIP commands? Yes Russ, there is. QuinZip is a Windows version but I don't think it handles all the functions available in the DOS version. Last I looked QuinZip could be found on the Monash University (Australia) mirror site of Cica, so I'd assume it's still on Cica itself and other mirrors. Have a look in the /util(s?) directory for a file called qzip21.zip. ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ o | Paul Blackman pwb@science.canberra.edu.au o | Water Research Centre, pwb@aerg.canberra.edu.au o _ | Faculty of Applied Science -- ("") o | University of Canberra, Australia. \_|_-- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | | ""Spend a little love and get high"" _/ \_ | - Lenny Kravitz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",2 "sound recording on mac portable answer (or lead) Whatever equipment will work on a mac plus or a mac se will work fine on a mac portable. It doesn't have a sound input, but there is equipment that works fine with those models mentioned in macuser/macworld. -- gene@jackatak.raider.net (Gene Wright) ------------jackatak.raider.net (615) 377-5980 ------------ ",4 "Re: NHL Team Captains ST> as for more captain trivia, the next Edmonton ST> catain was Lee Fogilin who was later traded to ST> the Buffalo Sabres, after him was Wayne Gretzky ST> who w traded to L A, then came Kevin Low who ST> nly this year was traded to the N Y Rangers Wasn't Mark Messier Captain of the oilers before Kevin Lowe? But, of course, he was traded as well -- so your point of every Oilers captain being traded is still true. Stephen Legge SLEGGE@kean.ucs.mun.ca ",10 "Re: What RIGHT ? In article <1993Apr24.171130.8975@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes: >In article <1993Apr22.133142.23772@ifi.uio.no>, joakimr@ifi.uio.no (Joakim Ruud) writes: >|> Recently, I've asked myself a rather interesting question: What RIGHT does >|> god have on our lives (always assuming there is a god, of course...!) ?? >He is God. In other words, the right of might. >|> In his infinite wisdom, he made it perfectly clear that if we don't live >|> according to his rules, we will burn in hell. Well, with what RIGHT can god >|> make that desicion? >He is God. In other words, the right of might. >|> Let's say, for the sake of argument, that god creates every >|> one of us (directly or indirectly, it doesn't matter.). What then happens, is >|> that he first creates us, and then turns us lose. Well, I didn't ask to be >|> created. >God granted you the gift of life whether you were sinner or saint. In other words, he can do it, he did it, and your in no position to argue about it. >|> Let's make an analogue. If a scientist creates a unique living creature (which >|> has happened, it was even patented...!!!), does he then have the right to >|> expect it to behave in a certain matter, or die...? >The scientist creates the living creature to examine it, poke and prod it and >learn about its behaviour. He will kill it if it becomes a threat. For >example, let's say the scientist creates a Tyrannosaurus Rex and it breaks >free of its confines and starts devouring the population. The scientist >would not hesitate in killing it. >God creates us to be His loving companions. He knows whether we are true in >our love for Him or not. And He lets us know the consequences of rejecting Him. >God cannot abide by sin. By rejecting God, a person becomes an enemy of God, >one that must be killed by Him. Note: I say that God and God alone is >worthy to be Judge, Jury and Executioner. We are not called to carry out >such duties because we are not worthy. In other words, you better do what this God wants you to do, or else! >|> Who is god to impose its rules on us ? Who can tell if god is REALLY so >|> righteous as god likes us to believe? Are all christians a flock of sheep, >|> unable to do otherwise that follow the rest? >God is God. Who are we to question the Creator? If you doubt God's doing >in certain situations, do you claim to know a better solution? Would you >be playing the role of God? In other words, its his game, he made the rules, and if you know whats good for you you'll play his game his way. ",19 "Jeff Mason's Auction=Marvel, DC, Image, Valiant, etc.. The following comics are for auction. The highest bid takes them! New stuff added! (Oooooh! The Mr. T. premium comic!) TITLE Minimum/Current -------------------------------------------------------------- Alpha Flight 51 (Jim Lee's first work at Marvel) $ 5.00 Aliens 1 (1st app Aliens in comics, 1st prnt, May 1988) $20.00/KrisM./THREE Amazing Spider-Man 136 (Intro new Green Goblin) $20.00 Amazing Spider-Man 238 (1st appearance Hobgoblin) $50.00 Archer and Armstrong 1 (Frank Miller/Smith/Layton) $ 7.50 Avengers 263 (1st appearance X-factor) $ 3.50 Bloodshot 1 (Chromium cover, BWSmith Cover/Poster) $ 5.00/SamE/ONCE Daredevil 158 (Frank Miller art begins) $35.00 Dark Horse Presents 1 (1st app Concrete, 1st printing) $ 7.50 Detective 657 (Azrael appears, Intro Cypher) $ 5.00 Harbinger 10 (1st appearance H.A.R.D. Corps) $ 7.00/B.Matthey/SOLD H.A.R.D. Corps 1 $ 5.00 Incredible Hulk 324 (1st app Grey Hulk since #1 1962) $ 7.00 Incredible Hulk 330 (1st McFarlane issue) $15.00 Incredible Hulk 331 (Grey Hulk series begins) $11.00 Incredible Hulk 367 (1st Dale Keown art in Hulk) $15.00 Incredible Hulk 377 (1st all new hulk, 1st prnt, Keown) $15.00 Marvel Comics Presents 1 (Wolverine, Silver Surfer) $ 7.50 Maxx Limited Ashcan (4000 copies exist, blue cover) $33.50/BrentB/THREE Mr T. #1 (Signed Advance copy, 10,000 exist) $10.00 New Mutants 86 (McFarlane cover, 1st app Cable - cameo) $10.00 New Mutants 100 (1st app X-Force) $ 5.00 New Mutants Annual 5 (1st Liefeld art on New Mutants) $10.00 Omega Men 3 (1st appearance Lobo) $ 7.50 Omega Men 10 (1st full Lobo story) $ 7.50 Power Man & Iron Fist 78 (3rd appearance Sabretooth) $20.00 Power Man & Iron Fist 84 (4th appearance Sabretooth) $15.00 Simpsons Comics and Stories 1 (Polybagged special ed.) $ 7.50 Spectacular Spider-Man 147 (1st app New Hobgoblin) $12.50 Star Trek the Next Generation 1 (Feb 1988, DC mini) $ 7.50 Star Trek the Next Generation 1 (Oct 1989, DC comics) $ 7.50 Trianglehead #1 (Special limited edition, autogrphed) $ 5.00 Web of Spider-Man 29 (Hobgoblin, Wolverine appear) $10.00 Web of Spider-Man 30 (Origin Rose, Hobgoblin appears) $ 7.50 Wolverine 10 (Before claws, 1st battle with Sabretooth) $15.00 Wolverine 41 (Sabretooth claims to be Wolverine's dad) $ 5.00 Wolverine 42 (Sabretooth proven not to be his dad) $ 3.50 Wolverine 43 (Sabretooth/Wolverine saga concludes) $ 3.00 Wolverine 1 (1982 mini-series, Miller art) $20.00 Wonder Woman 267 (Return of Animal Man) $12.50 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, X-Force card) $20.00 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Shatterstar card) $10.00 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Deadpool card) $10.00 X-Force 1 (Signed by Liefeld, Bagged, Sunspot/Gideon) $10.00 All comics are in near mint to mint condition, are bagged in shiny polypropylene bags, and backed with white acid free boards. Shipping is $1.50 for one book, $3.00 for more than one book, or free if you order a large enough amount of stuff. I am willing to haggle. I have thousands and thousands of other comics, so please let me know what you've been looking for, and maybe I can help. Some titles I have posted here don't list every issue I have of that title, I tried to save space. -- Geoffrey R. Mason | jrm@elm.circa.ufl.edu Department of Psychology | mason@webb.psych.ufl.edu University of Florida | prothan@maple.circa.ufl.edu ",6 "Even today Armenian genocide of innocent Muslim people continues. Source: Channel 4 News at 19.00, Monday 2 March 1992. 2 French journalists have seen 32 corpses of men, women and children in civilian clothes. Many of them shot dead from their heads as close as less than 1 meter. Source: BBC1 Morning news at 07.37, Tuesday 3 March 1992. BBC reporter was live on line and he claimed that he saw more than 100 bodies of Azeri men, women and children as well as a baby who are shot dead from their heads from a very short distance. Source: BBC1 Morning news at 08:12, Tuesday 3 March 1992. Very disturbing picture has shown that many civilian corpses who were picked up from mountain. Reporter said he, cameraman and Western Journalists have seen more than 100 corpses, who are men, women, children, massacred by Armenians. They have been shot dead from their heads as close as 1 meter. Picture also has shown nearly ten bodies (mainly women and children) are shot dead from their heads. Azerbaijan claimed that more than 1000 civilians massacred by Armenian forces. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: New Uniforms In <1993Apr5.224631.636@Virginia.EDU> tek2q@Virginia.EDU (""Todd Karlin"") writes: > Usually one or two teams changes their logo or a minor >uniform change per season, but the past few seasons have been >incredible. > Any thoughts on the new (old) Reds uniforms. I >remember seeing a Pete Rose rookie card, and unless I miss my >guess he was wearing the exact same duds. > The Mets (HOW ABOUT DOC'S PERFORMANCE TODAY?!!!!!) have >reinserted the Mets patch on the shoulder, and changed the Mets >insgnia on the front of the jersey. To my knowledge it is the >first time that has been changed since 1962, and it reminds me >a little of the Dodger logo. As far as I know, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and New York (NL) change their uniforms every year. Every other year (e.g., New York), it will say Mets in cursive, New York in cursive, or New York in all caps. Minor changes, but they do change them often. Last year, I think they had New York in all caps. Did Toronto have Blue Jays or Toronto last year? What about Pittsburgh? > Many teams have opted for a return to a previous style >of uniform, or at least uniforms that look more traditional. >(Phillies, Reds, Expos, White Sox, Padres, etc.) and the once >bright colors have been altered to gray. The trend has also >seen the newer baseball fields resembling the parks of the >early years, as opposed to the cookie-cutter saucer stadiums >construcrted throughout the sixties. I hate the gray. They should opt for more color (like the White Sox). I hate white team versus gray team. Spring training uniforms look much better. > With salaries now reaching unbelievable highs, no one >in the comissioner's office, and inter-league play on the >horizon, it's nice to see that baseball at least looks like it >was meant to be. ",9 "PaintBall Gun ForSale!! Paintball Gun for Sale TIPPMAN SL-68II (In Great Condition) 11"" Micro-honed Barrel Barrel Squeegie 16"" Barrel 140 Round Sight Feeder with Elbow 7 oz. Constant Air Tank with Valve Protector and Buttplate Shoulder Strap 3-7X Bushnell Sportview Scope 40 Round Ammo Box with Flip Top Lid Barrel Plug Instruction Manual Allen Wrenches Contact me at: zborowsk@spot.colorado.edu and make me an offer. ",6 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article <1993May12.215649.17873@walter.bellcore.com> cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com (C. Akgun) writes: >In article <1993May12.205519.1480@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: >> >>It is easy for Sen. Biden to say that when there are no US troops in >>Zepa or Srebinica or Sarejevo... >> >>The existing UN policy may certaining be wrong, but the US wants >>to dictate policy, and make Europe responsible for the consequences >>of that policy... >> >>...Bosnia is a big enough problem for the US to preach about what >>other countries should be doing with their forces...but its forces >>are safely tucked away at home in the US. >> >Look nobody asked those countries about their UN forces >to be on the ground. They can take their forces which are Well Bosnia and the US did...the UN cannot impose blue berets on a country, and the US has voted for the current policy and mandate in the Security Council...and could have said no if it wanted to... it has a veto. Clinton has not demanded the removal of the UN forces...because he want to have his cake and eat it too...he wants to dictate policy but not be responsible for the policy he wants to dictate. If Clinton asks for the blue berets to leave, then he Bill Clinton becomes responsible for what happens...him and Sen. Biden and their friends who want to fight the war from 10,000 ft...as long as the blue berets are there Clinton can use Europe as a scapegoat for American indecisiveness. I fully admit that the current UN policy approved by all the major powers including the US may be wrong or inappropriate...but these ""back-seat drivers"" in the US like Clinton and Biden are just a bunch of hypocrites looking for an gimmick to look like they are doing something to assuage their own consciences and those who are demanding action or leadership...and most European leaders are smart enough to know the difference between American hot air and American leadership. >I think Senator Biden said it all what has to be said on this issue. >Europe is a sad place to criticize human rights in anywhere in this >world. Like Biden said, they are the bigots when it comes to >cultural difference and minorty closer to their home. Well, if Biden is so outraged...why the hell doesn't he do something about it...where is his resolution in the US Senate for a declaration of war or the commitment of US forces and troops. Biden is just full of hot air. Gerald ",17 "EXPERTS on PENICILLIN...LOOK! My name is Noah Dacumos and I am a student at San Leandro High. I am doing a project for my physics class and I would like some info on the discovery of penicillin, its discoverer(Sir Alexander Fleming), and how it helps people with many incurable bacterias. Also how it effects those who are allergic to it. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Noah Dacumos ",13 "Are the Orioles/Phillies at home on Mem Day Wkend Subject sez it... Wondering if either team are in town that weekend (5-30/5-31). I can probably get Phillies tix, as the Vet can hold a bunch (and I hope they're still in 1st but it's late may, and...). Camden Yards is a problem - is there any way of getting in the park w/o an SRO ticket? Any advice if there at home? Joe Leonard jle@world.std.com P.S. Please reply directly, to keep the net down to a dull roar... ",9 "Re: IDE vs SCSI wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes: >wayne@amtower.spacecoast.org writes: >IDE also uses DMA techniques. I believe floppy controller also uses DMA, >and most A/D boards also use DMA. DMA is no big deal, and has nothing to >do directly with SCSI. No. The simple $25 style IDE controller does not use DMA. The CPU performs the data transfer with a string move instruction. This requires that the CPU stop what it had been doing and transfer the data. Only the smart drive controllers, be they IDE or SCSI, can transfer via DMA. These controllers tend to cost the same wether they are IDE or SCSI. To get the DMA benefits, IDE must sacrifice it's price advantage *on the controller*. >> For example, when rewinding or formatting a tape, the command is >>issued to the controller and the bus is released to allow access to other >>devices on the bus. This greatly increases productivity or, at least, do >>something else while backing up your hard drive :-). Which happens to be >>what I am doing while reading this group. >You can thank your software for that. If DOS had a few more brains, it >could format floppies etc. while you were doing something else. The >hardware will support it, but DOS (at least) won't. Again, this has >nothing to do with SCSI. Floppies aren't on the IDE bus, your arguement makes no sense, this isn't an IDE issue. The floppys have their own processor on their controller board which handles all of these commands. The difference between IDE and SCSI is that all SCSI peripherials are intelligent. They each have their own controller. They depend on the CPU to do fewer things for them, i.e. IDE drives needing a processor to transfer their data. >>Its a long story, but I still use IDE on my 486 except for the CDROM which, >>thanks to SCSI, I can move between both machines. If, and when, SCSI is >>better standardized and supported on the ibm-clone machines, I plan to >>completely get rid of IDE. >And if you stick with DOS you'll wonder why you can't multitask. >Again I ask why can't a UNIX or OS/2 type OS do all the miraculous things >with an IDE harddrive that it can with a (single) SCSI hard drive. The dettach/callback mechanism alows the CPU to make requests of the devices on the SCSI bus and then dettach and go about its business. Later, when the device is done, it issues a callback to say that the data has arrived or the function has completed. Most SCSI cards will also DMA the data into memory without the interupting the CPU, therefore allowing it to continue working uninterupted. IDE supports no such concept as dettach/callback. Can you see how this would be a win in any multitasking system? --David Willmore -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- willmore@iastate.edu | ""Death before dishonor"" | ""Better dead than greek"" | David Willmore | ""Ever noticed how much they look like orchids? Lovely!"" | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",3 "Re: Win31 & doublespace In article <4363@hpwala.wal.hp.com>, chrisa@hpwarr.hp.com ( Chris Almy) writes: > > Doublespace, although I do not trust it for my hard disks, sounds > great for floppies. The thouoght of having to mount the disk > is anoying but something I can deal with. The problem arises > when under windows. Is there a way to mount and unmount while > under windows or is this part of the upgrades soon to be > available from other vendors? > > .Chris I can't see why you would not trust it because it is safer than any previous compression programs. It integrates into the kernal and makes it nearly impossible to delete. ",2 "Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics >DATE: 18 Apr 93 23:17:25 GMT >FROM: Bake Timmons > > These Bible-lovers have got to chill out. If we all could just relax >and see atheism for what it is, the funny pages could have more material. > > Atheism denies the existence of God. This is logically bankrupt -- >where is the proof of this nonexistence? It's a joke. > > So nobody can take the above sense of atheism seriously. Perhaps Perhaps because you just made it up? Now put your skateboard away and read the FAQ. Learn something about atheism before you get off on these tangents. ",0 "screen problem in unix/xwindows/solaris Experiment: From a Sun openwindows 4.1.3 xterm window log into a Solaris 2.x machine using rlogin; now do an ""ls"" and get the first character of each line display in the last column of the display with the rest of the line wrapped to the next line of the display. Log out and the condition persists. Check stty all, try reset with no effect. Use telnet instead of rlogin and it doesn't occur. Try it from a unix console and it doesn't occur. (1) What's causing this? (2) Can it be avoided? (3) How can the terminal characteristics be reset? Please send replies to shenk@math.gatech.edu -- SHONKWILER R W Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!ma201rs ARPA: ma201rs@prism.gatech.edu ",5 "Re: Question: Jesus alone, Oneness Regarding ""Jesus only"" believers, our moderator writes: [There may be some misunderstanding over terms here...] I agree. Quite likely, actually. [...I believe ""Jesus only"" originally was in the context of baptism. These are folks who believe that baptism should be done with a formula mentioning only Jesus, rather than Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This may have doctrinal implications, but as far as I know it does not mean that these folks deny the existence or divinity of the Father. I'm not the right one to describe this theology, and in fact I think there may be several, including what would classically be called monophysite or Arian (two rather different views), as well as some who have beliefs that are probably consistent with Trinitarian standards, but who won't use Trinitarian language because they misunderstand it or simply because it is not Biblical. --clh] Not Biblical? What then can they make of the end of Matthew? (28:18)And Jesus came and said to them, ""All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (19)Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (20) and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded to you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."" {Other ancient authorities add *Amen*} [NRSV] The notes give no sense that this is emended. Do other texts contradict this regarding Baptism? Or is a misunderstanding of the Trinity the most likely explanation after all? But maybe I simply misunderstand their views. (Is anyone else out there forced to read this group with both a good Bible and an unabridged dictionary?? Christianity really is an education in itself.) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |David R. Tucker KG2S drt@athena.mit.edu| ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Arrgggghhhh. When I talked about people who rejected Trinitarian language as unBiblical, I was speaking of Trinitarian theology, things like ""one essense and three persons"". Obviously the three-fold baptismal formula is Biblical, as you point out. (I normally use the term ""three-fold"" in referring to Mat. While it is certainly consistent with belief in the Trinity, the Trinity is a doctrine whose full formulation occurred in the 4th and 5th Cent's. It's unlikely that Mat. had in mind the fully-developed Trinitarian doctrine. Indeed the three-fold baptismal formula is used by some groups that do not believe in the Trinity.) The disagreement over baptismal formulae occurs because of passages such as Acts 2:38, which command baptism in the name of Jesus. (There are a couple of other passages in Acts as well.) This leaves us with sort of a problem: we're commanded in Mat. to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and in Acts to baptize in the name of Jesus. ""Jesus only"" groups baptize in the name of Jesus. They consider this consistent with Mat 28:18, because they say that Jesus is the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I'm not the right one to ask to explain what this means. I will simply say that it does not appear to be normal Trinitarian theology. (It is also an odd way of dealing with the idiomatic phrase ""in the name of"".) Those who use the three-fold formula don't seem to have a standard answer to the passages talking about baptizing in the name of Jesus. I suspect that the most common explanation is to say that ""in the name of"" need not be a verbal formula. To say that you baptize in the name of Jesus may simply mean that you are doing baptism under Jesus' authority. In the 1st Cent. context, it contrasts Christian baptism with the baptism of John or other Jewish baptism. Of course there's a certain parallelism between these passages. That suggests that we could just as well say that Mat 28:18 doesn't require the specific three-fold formula to be used in baptism, but simply characterizes baptism done by those who follow the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One might well suspect that in the early church, more than one baptismal formula was used. So long as we consider following Jesus to be the same as following the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, no great damage would be done by such a difference. This does *not* mean that I think we should go back to using both formulae. Baptism is one of the few things that almost all Christian groups now recognize mutually, so I do not think doing something to upset that would be in the interests of the Gospel. This is reinforced by the fact that those groups that actually use ""in the name of Jesus"" now do seem to have in mind a difference in doctrine. But as I've said before, I'm not the one to explain what their doctrine is. --clh] ",15 "Re: Turkey-Cyprus-Bosnia-Serbia-Greece (Armenia-Azeris) In article , ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes: > Yeah, too much Mutlu/Argic isn't helping. I could, one day, proceed and You shouldn't think many Turks read Mutlu/Argic stuff. They are in my kill file, likewise any other fanatic. > >(I have nothing against Greeks but my problem is with fanatics. I have met > >so many Greeks who wouldn't even talk to me because I am Turkish. From my > >experience, all my friends always were open to Greeks) > > Well, the history, wars, current situations, all of them do not help. Well, Panos, Mr. Tamamidis?, the way you put it it is only the Turks who bear the responsibility of the things happening today. That is hard to believe for somebody trying to be objective. When it comes to conflicts like our countries having you cannot blame one side only, there always are bad guys on both sides. What were you doing on Anatolia after the WW1 anyway? Do you think it was your right to be there? I am not saying that conflicts started with that. It is only not one side being the aggressive and the ither always suffering. It is sad that we (both) still are not trying to compromise. I remember the action of the Turkish government by removing the visa requirement for greeks to come to Turkey. I thought it was a positive attempt to make the relations better. The Greeks I mentioned who wouldn't talk to me are educated people. They have never met me but they know! I am bad person because I am from Turkey. Politics is not my business, and it is not the business of most of the Turks. When it comes to individuals why the hatred? So that makes me think that there is some kind of brainwashing going on in Greece. After all why would an educated person treat every person from a nation the same way? can you tell me about your history books and things you learn about Greek-Turkish encounters during your schooling. take it easy! -- Tankut Atan tankut@iastate.edu ""Achtung, baby!"" ",17 "486SX Motherboard/Case/Mouse Hello, I have a motherboard and a case for sale as a package. Both of them came from a CompuAdd computer I bought last August and am presently upgrading. Here are the specs-- Motherboard ----------- Cyrix 486SL 25 MHz microprocessor Chips and Technology chipset (SCATsx V2.3.6 SLSLC) 8 SIMM banks for a maximum of 32 Megs of RAM BUILT-IN Floppy and Hard Drive Controllers BUILT-IN ports--1 Parallel, 2 Serial (9 and 25 pin) BUILT-IN Paradise SVGA controller with 1 meg of RAM (Windows drivers inc.) -can do up to 1024x768 @ 256 colors -based on the Western Digital WD90C31 chip Math co-processor slot 3 16-bit expansion slots and 2 8-bit expansion slots Case ---- Low-Profile Desktop Very nice grey color 150 watt power supply Room for 2 floppies plus HD Mouse ----- 3-button Microsoft-compatible Grey color matches case All original manuals and documentation, video drivers, etc. are included. You are probably wondering why I must sell the case with the motherboard. It is simply because the case is custom-made for this particular board and you would be hard-pressed to fit another MB in it. However, the case and this motherboard were made to go together and fit perfectly. As you can see, since this board includes drive controllers AND a video controller, you can save some money by buying this unit and not a MB where you would need to get IO cards, video card, and drive controllers Its just a lot more convenient on the whole I would like to ask about $500 for this whole package. I think this is a fair price given the facts that it includes a video card and drive controllers/IO ports. All you need to do is add drives, a monitor, RAM, and a keyboard. Also keep in mind that it isn't a generic board, but from CompuAdd. I also will entertain all serious offers. Please email at jmu@acpub.duke.edu Thanks -J ",6 "Bursitis and laser treatment My family doctor and the physiotherapist (PT) she sent me to agree that the pain in my left shoulder is bursitis. I have an appointment with an orthpod (I love that, it's short for 'orthopedic surgeon, apparently) but while I'm waiting the PT is treating me. She's using hot packs, ultrasound, and lasers, but there's no improvement yet. In fact, I almost suspect it's getting worse. My real question is about the laser treatment. I can't easily imagine what the physical effect that could have on a deep tissue problem. Can anyone shed some light (so to speak) on the matter? -- Robert Allison Ottawa, Ontario CANADA ",13 "Re: Changing oil by self. In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes: >You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in >place of the bolt. I have one on both of my cars. There have been no >leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars). Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot. all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip home. But there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them. I personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep vandals away. :---) steve ",7 "Re: Fonts in POV?? In article <1qg9fc$et9@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au>, g9134255@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (Coronado Emmanuel Abad) writes: |> |> |> I have seen several ray-traced scenes (from MTV or was it |> RayShade??) with stroked fonts appearing as objects in the image. |> The fonts/chars had color, depth and even textures associated with |> them. Now I was wondering, is it possible to do the same in POV?? |> Hi Noel, I've made some attempts to write a converter that reads Adobe Type 1 fonts, triangulates them, bevelizes them and extrudes them to result in a generic 3d object which could be used with PoV f.i. The problem I'm currently stuck on is that theres no algorithm which triangulates any arbitrary polygonal shape. Delaunay seems to be limited to convex hulls. Constrained delaunay may be okay, but I have no code example of how to do it. Another way to do the bartman may be - TGA2POV - A selfmade variation of this, using heightfields. Create a b/w picture (BIG) of the text you need, f.i. using a PostScript previewer. Then, use this as a heightfield. If it is white on black, the heightfield is exactly the images white parts (it's still open on the backside). To close it, mirror it and compound it with the original. Example: object { union { height_field { gif ""abp2.gif"" } height_field { gif ""abp2.gif"" scale <1 -1 1>} } texture { Glass } translate <-0.5 0 -0.5> //center rotate <-90 0 0> // rotate upwards scale <10 5 100> // scale bigger and thicker translate <0 2 0> // final placement } abp2.gif is a GIF of arbitrary size containing ""ABP"" black on white in Times-Roman 256 points. -- +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ | o | \\\- Brain Inside -/// | o | | o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o | | o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o | +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ ",1 "Re: Laser vs Bubblejet? kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes: >One other thing... there are bubblejets, and then there are BubbleJets. >There are a few bubblejets out there that produce rather mediocre output >(such as HP's dinky little BubbleJet), whereas most produce really good >looking output (such as HP's DeskJets). IBM and Canon both produce some of >the really good style bubblejets. >P.S. -- If you're in the market for a portable bubblejet printer, I can >highly recommend the HP Portable DeskJet, although I've heard the portable >Canons are good too (I needed PCL support, myself). With the DeskJet >Portable, you even get an undocumented PCMCIA card slot! I second that suggestion. Although I don't own the HP Portable Deskjet, I *do* own the HP Deskjet 500. It gives the nicest outputs, with only a minor loss of quality. For all intensive purposes (papers, letters, resumes), I treat my Deskjet like a laser printer (You *do* have to look a bit closely to see the blurs in the characters). Only one grudge, the ink that HP gives you does smudge rather quickly in the presence of moisture (Even though the ink is waterproof). However, you would have to spend about $500 more for laser quality. The cannon bubblejets are nice, however they don't seem to have as much support (eg: drivers for popular programs) as the HP ink-jets. Also HP Deskjet (regular,plus,500,500c) accepts xerox paper (I believe that the cut-sheet feeder is an option for the cannon bubblejet). If you don't mind refilling your printer with cheap ink (say fountain-pen ink), then the HP deskjets are *very* cheap to maintain (I paid $3.50 for my last bottle of ink and I expect it to last 9 months). -Kimball (who doesn't work for HP, but just loves his printer very much!) PS: I have a question for you netters, I'm too afraid to refill with the waterproof inks they sell in art-supply houses because I had brought a bottle of waterproof ink and it clogged up my cartridge. I wonder what is a 'good' waterproof ink (aside from buying refill-kits) to refill my cartridge? ",12 "Re: Ten questions about Israel backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes: >In article <1483500349@igc.apc.org>, cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) writes: >> >> >> 4. Is it true that in Israeli prisons there are a number of >> individuals which were tried in secret and for which their >> identities, the date of their trial and their imprisonment are >> state secrets ? >Apart from Mordechai Vanunu who had a trial behind closed doors, there was one >other espionage case (the nutty professor at the Nes Ziona Biological >Institute who was a K.G.B. mole) who was tried ""in camera"". I wouldn't exactly >call it a state secret. The trial was simply tried behind closed doors. I hate >to disappoint you but the United States has tried a number of espionage cases >in camera. One of those US cases was John Pollard. Ed. ",17 "Re: Need advice for riding with someone on pillion In article rwert@well.sf.ca.us (Bob Wert) writes: }I need some advice on having someone ride pillion with me on my 750 Ninja. }This will be the the first time I've taken anyone for an extended ride }(read: farther than around the block :-). We'll be riding some twisty, }fairly bumpy roads (the Mines Road-Mt.Hamilton Loop for you SF Bay Areans). Unless she is really adventurous, do NOT take her on this route for her first extended ride! That's kinda like taking someone on a no-show 10-way speed star competition as their first skydive. }This person is <100 lbs. and fairly small, so I don't see weight as too much }of a problem, but what sort of of advice should I give her before we go? }I want her to hold onto me :-) rather than the grab rail out back, and }I've heard that she should look over my shoulder in the direction we're }turning so she leans *with* me, but what else? Are there traditional 1) If the Ninja has adjustable suspension, adjust it to a stiffer setting so you don't bottom out in bumpy curves. 2) Tell her the 3 cardinal rules are: a) NEVER EVER EVER EVER put her feet down. Not when you stop at a STOP sign, not when she thinks you're gonna crash, never. Keep them on the pegs until you tell her to get off the bike. b) She is to hold onto your waist. She should hold on tightly enough that she won't slide off the bike if you twist the throttle a bit. And (added bonus for you here), she should keep as close to your butt as possible so quick stops don't make her slide into you and knock your balls up onto the gas tank. You decide how best to word this. c) Just stay perpendicular to the bike; straight up in the seat. Don't lean your body into curves, just go with the bike and stay perpendicular. Don't look over your shoulder.* 3) Remember at all times that you have a passenger on the back. That means don't pop the clutch, and try to corner and stop smoother than usual. Be aware that if you jump on the brake, you're going to have the equivalent of a 100 lb. dead weight crashing into you from behind, so be prepared for that. 4) Make sure she pisses before the ride even if she says she doesn't have to go. No anti-women stuff here; I have a tiny bladder myself. 5) Remind her to look around while you're riding. Point to things of interest. It makes the ride more enjoyable to her (she won't get so focused on just looking at the back of your helmet), and it gives her ample excuse to squeeze you to show she saw what you pointed at. * My wife and I tried the MSF-recommended ""look over the rider's shoulder in curves"" bit, and it just didn't work. The timing of her weight shift was unpredictable (especially on the Maxim because, unlike the Ninja, the upright riding position really restricts the pillion's view of the road ahead). Next time I had her just remain perpendicular to the bike, and I could hardly tell there was someone else on the bike in curves, and she weighs substantially over 100 lbs. -- Curtis Jackson cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com '91 Hawk GT '81 Maxim 650 DoD#0721 KotB '91 Black Lab mix ""Studley Doright"" '92 Collie/Golden ""George"" ""There is no justification for taking away individuals' freedom in the guise of public safety."" -- Thomas Jefferson ",8 "Re: Human head modeling software In article adaptive@cs.nps.navy.mil (zyda res acct) writes: >>Hi, there! >>I am interested in facial animation and want to implement some program about this area. >>But I don't have any 3-D information for the face. >>I am looking for some 3D images of face. > >Try getting the Cyberware_demo via ftp which contains 3D images of the >face. > What is the copyright status of this data? Are there restrictions regarding the uses they can be put to? Kaveh -- Kaveh Kardan kardank@ERE.UMontreal.CA ",1 "Re: Final Solution for Gaza ? In article <1993Apr26.172744.23230@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes: >In article <1483500354@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research writes: >> >>[...] >>The Gaza strip, this tiny area of land with the highest population >>density in the world, has been cut off from the world for weeks. >>The Israeli occupier has decided to punish the whole population of >>Gaza, some 700.000 people, by denying them the right to leave the >>strip and seek work in Israel. > >Anyone who can repeate this choice piece of tripe without checking >his/her sources does not deserve to be believed. The Gaza strip does >not possess the highest population density in the world. In fact, it >isn't even close. Just one example will serve to illustrate the folly >of this statement: the city of Hong Kong has nearly ten times the >population of the Gaza strip in a roughly comparable land area. The >centers of numerous cities also possess comparable, if not far higher, >population densities. Examples include Manhattan Island (NY City), Sao >Paolo, Ciudad de Mexico, Bombay,... > >Need I go on? The rest of Mr. Davidsson's message is no closer to the >truth than this oft-repeated statement is. > Elias' initial statement certain *is* hot air. But it seems to be almost standard procedure around here to first throw out an absurb, overstated image in order to add extra ""meaning"" to the posting's *real point*. However, his second statement *is* quite real. The essential sealing off of Gaza residents from the possibility of making a living *has happened*. Certainly, the Israeli had a legitimate worry behind the action they took, but isn't that action a little draconian? -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "Re: Need advice for riding with someone on pillion In article zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig ""Powderkeg"" DeForest) writes: >- Turn dynamics: sit so that you feel like you're sitting upright... Good advice. >- Please, no sudden moves... My Ol'lady taps me on the shoulder to let me know she is uncomfortable. I, in turn, am prepared for her to move about on the back of the bike. >- Trust is essential. ... We had 1 bad crash (nail in rear tire on left hand sweeper at crest of hill on pavement/pea-gravel road) and her actions helped lessen the severity of it. As we were crashing, she stayed upright in the saddle with her feet on the pegs and her hands about my waist. I was able to get the bike slowed down 10-15mph before we were high-sided. She got off with a fair case of road rash and I had to have the doc remove a lot of rocks from my knee. Had she panicked we would have probably crashed at greater speed causing greater injury. BTW, as soon at the tire went flat, we went into VIOLENT tank- slappers. This is what she rode out in a ""normal"" riding posture! ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====---- Stolen Taglines... * God is real, unless declared integer. * * I came, I saw, I deleted all your files. * * Black holes are where God is dividing by zero. * * The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out. * * Earth is 98% full.... please delete anyone you can. * ",8 "Re: eXpEn$iVe MOTOROLA Handheld Radio For Peanuts! Agent_X writes: > I can no longer use anything japanese. Kenwood, Yeasu, Icom, Alinco, its > ALL JUNK. ^^^^^^^^ Well, I'm not sure I'd go quite that far, but I agree that Motorola gear is of better quality. The question is how much that quality is worth to a ham in amateur service, not commercial service >This radio can hear a repeater thats 40 miles away without > an antenna. Ok, great. But how often does that come up? How good is ""good enough"", and how much is someone willing to pay for it? A good ham-quality HT is maybe $500, while a commercial quality one is maybe $2000. Is the increased reliability and performance worth 4 times the price *in amateur service*? Only the individual involved can answer that question, and each ham has to decide for him/herself. If Motorola quality is worth 4 times the price to you, then more power to ya'. But I'm amazed that folks make that choice. For, me, given that I've got $2000 to spend, I'l pick the Yaesu ht and a nice new HF rig every time over a Motorola ht alone, no matter how good it is. To me, ham-quality gear is ""good enough"". To each his own... 73... Mike, N4PDY ****************************** * These are my opinions only.* ****************************** ",6 "Data of skull GT> From: gary@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Gary Taylor) GT> Hi, We are trying to develop a image reconstruction simulation for the skull You could do high resolution CT (computed tomographic) scanning of the skull. Many CT scanners have an algorithm to do 3-D reconstructions in any plane you want. If you did reconstructions every 2 degrees or so in all planes, you could use the resultant images to create user-controlled animation. --- . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) ",13 "Re: CView answers renew@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl (Rene Walter) writes: >over where it places its temp files: it just places them in its >""current directory"". I have to beg to differ on this point, as the batch file I use to launch cview cd's to the dir where cview resides and then invokes it. every time I crash cview, the 0-byte temp file is found in the root dir of the drive cview is on. just my $0.13, cb -- Cyberspace Buddha { Why are you looking for more knowledge when you } /(o\ cb@wixer.bga.com \ do not pay attention to what you already know? / \o)/ cb@wixer.cactus.org } ""get out of my chair!"" -- Hillary to god { peace... ",1 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 >>>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 1993 08:29:03 GMT, se92psh@brunel.ac.uk (Peter Hauke) said: Peter> joachim lous (joachim@kih.no) wrote: Peter> : > Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from? Peter> Yep, here's a theory that I once heard bandied around. Rather than thinking Peter> of the number think of the sound. For Tea Two. A sort of anagram on Tea For Two, Peter> Two for Tea, For Tea Two. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Un other suggestion is there is no Tea above! It just And For Two many things are possible; think binary, + -, Y/N, L/R, T/F No wonder there was Eve for Adam! Peter> :-) Malek :-) :-) -- Malek. ""We cooperate in what we agree on, and forgive each other for that in which we disagree."" Hassan El Banna. ",1 "144mhz/440mhz amps, 2mtr HT for sale I have the following equipment for sale: 1. Kenwood TH-28A 2mtr HT $250.00 2. RF Concepts 2mtr Amp (45in->170out) $275.00 3. Hamtronics Class C Continuous Duty 440mhz 10watt-in ~40watt-out amp $250.00 All prices include shipping/insurance. For additional information, contact me at the address below. Dave -- | Admiral David E. Ryan | | der@anomaly.sbs.com | | ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!der | ",6 "Re: Touring the southwest bgardner@pebbles.es.com (Blaine Gardner) writes: >kim@fatcity.cts.com (Kim Sharpe) writes: >>A few of us are touring Sothwest Utah in mid June to see the Canyons.\ >>Do any of you have some helpful hints on where to stay or >>things to see/do/avoid. Plans are to see Bryce, Zion, Arches. >>Is the Grand close at that point or is an additional trip required? > >Well, it's closer to Bryce than Bryce is to Arches. I'd spend a lot >of time studying the maps, there's a lot of ""you can't get there from >here"" in that area. You might want to hit the Grand Canyon on the way >up from California, loop around to Canyonlands/Moab/Arches, and then >back down towards Bryce & Zion on the way home. > >Make sure you ride US 12 between Capitol Reef and Bryce, it's been on a >number of ""top 10 roads"" lists. Highway 12 is a great road. Be sure to stop by the Anasazi (sp) village museum near Boulder Creek. Interesting lifestyle :-). The views of Dixie National Forest are stunning. Karen Black ",8 "Drag Coefficients Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines. I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but what does this mean in the real world. Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33. Thanx ",7 "Re: The arrogance of Christians >They believe the danger is real, but others may not. > >Does that mean that the first group are NECESSARILY arrogant in warning >others of the danger? Does it mean that they are saying that their beliefs >are correct, and all others are false? > >Some might indeed react to opposition with arrogance, and behave in an >arrogant manner, but that is a personal idiocyncracy. It does not >necessarily mean that they are all arrogant. No the members of the first group are not necessarily arrogant. But when I ask them if they are absolutely certain that the volcano will erupt, I expect them to say so ""No, but I've chosen to believe some knowledgable people who have determined that the volcano will erupt,"" rather than, ""Yes, I am absolutely certain."" When it comes to religious discussions, arrogance or at best naivete is reflected in the latter type of statement. | Louis J. Kim --- _ O PH:512-522-5556 | | Southwest Research Institute --- ,/ |\/' FAX:512-522-3042 | | Post Office Drawer 28510 ---- |__ lkim@swri.edu | | San Antonio, TX 78228-0510 ---- __/ \ 76450.2231@compuserve.com | -- ",15 "Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. >>>>> On Mon, 17 May 1993 05:48:59 GMT, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) said: fc> In article <1993May17.021717.26111@olaf.wellesley.edu> lhawkins@annie.wellesley.edu (R. Lee Hawkins) writes: >>because of his doubtfull credibility as an astronomer. Modern, >>ground-based, visible light astronomy (what these proposed >>orbiting billboards would upset) is already a dying field: The >Ahh, perhaps that's why we've (astronomers) have just built *2* 10-meter >ground-based scopes and are studying designs for larger ones. fc> Exactly what fraction of current research is done on the big, fc> visable light telescopes? From what I've seen, 10% or less fc> (down from amlost 100% 25 years ago.) That sounds like ""dying"" fc> to me... That doesn't seem like a fair comparison. Infrared astronomy didn't really get started until something like 25 yrs. ago; it didn't explode until IRAS in 1983. Gamma-ray (and I think X-ray) observations didn't really get started until the '70s. I believe the same is true of ultraviolet observations in general, and I know that extreme UV (short of 1000 Angstroms) observations, until the EUVE (launched last year) had almost no history except a few observations on Skylab in the '70s. Twenty-five years ago, the vast majority of astronomers only had access to optical or radio instruments. Now, with far more instruments available, growth in some of these new fields has resulted in optical work representing a smaller fraction of total astronomical work. >Seriously, though, you're never going to get a 10-meter scope into orbit >as cheaply as you can build one on the ground, and with adaptive optics >and a good site, the difference in quality is narrowed quite a bit >anyway. fc> That would be true, if adaptive optics worked well in the visable. fc> But take a look at the papers on the subject: They refer to anything fc> up to 100 microns as ""visable"". I don't know about you, but most fc> people have trouble seeing beyond 7 microns or so... There are fc> reasons to think adaptive optics will not work at shorter fc> wavelengths without truely radical improvements in technology. Hmm, some of the folks in this department planning on using adaptive optics at the 5 m at Palomar for near-infrared observations (1 and 2 microns) might be surprised to hear this. And isn't the NTT already pushing toward 0.1 arcsecond resolution, from a ground-based site (remember 0.1 arcseconds was one of the selling points of HST). -- | e-mail: lazio@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu T. Joseph Lazio | phone: (607) 255-6420 | ICBM: 42 deg. 20' 08"" N 76 deg. 28' 48"" W Cornell knows I exist?!? | STOP RAPE ",14 "Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications. In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from the exhaust gas. Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology. Max -- Max G Q Lu, PhD | Internet: mgqlu@ntu.ac.sg Division of Thermal Enginerring | Bitnet: mgqlu@ntuvax.bitnet School of MPE, Nanyang Technological University | Phone: (65) 7994818 Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 2263 | Fax: (65) 7911859 ",7 "Re: Enough Freeman Bashing! Was: no-Free man propaganda machine: Freemanwith blood greetings from Israel In article mafifi@eis.calstate.edu (Marc A Afifi) writes: >pgf5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Peter Garfiel Freeman) writes: > > >Peter, > >I believe this is your most succinct post to date. Since you have nothing >to say, you say nothing! It's brilliant. Did you think of this all by >yourself? > >-marc >-- Hey tough guy, read the topic. That's the message. Get a brain. Go to a real school. ",17 "Re: Christianity and repeated lives In article danc@procom.com (Daniel Cossack) writes: >JEK@cu.nih.gov writes: >>The Apostle Paul (Romans 9:11) points out that God chose Jacob >>rather than Esau... If we admit the possibility that they had lived previous >>lives, and that (in accordance with the Asiatic idea of ""karma"") > >And following Romans to 9:13, ""As it is written, Jacob have I loved, >but Esau have I hated."" How could God have loved and hated (in the >past tense) those that are not yet born, neither having done good >or evil? Woah...The context is about God's calling out a special people (the Jews) to carry the ""promise."" To read the meaning as literal people is to miss Paul's entire point. I'd be glad to send anyone more detailed explanations of this passage if interested. ==================================== Ted Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu) University of Georgia, Athens Institute of Higher Ed. ",15 "Re: What is "" Volvo "" ? boyle@bbsls23.bnr (Ian Boyle) writes: >740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I >believe the Beetle corners better. >I can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever. >I've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car. >Not sure how long the small shit-box Volvos last - too damn long. The worst car I ever drove was a hired 340. In power, handling and ride it was reminiscent of something >from the 50s, without the character. The 340 only ceased production a couple of years back. I've only been a passenger in the big Volvos, but that was enough. I ought to go >for a test drive because they offer some neat gifts. Oh, well... I have to admit that the most disgusting feature of Volvo's is their marketing. It looks like Volvo uses something like ""Do you dare to risk your family in any car?"" attitude, which is quite annoying in the long run. But now Volvo has produced a new good car, the Volvo 850. Front drive, 2.4 L 20 valves motor, completely new chassis etc. Even the British magazine ""CAR"" liked it (and believe me, that is quite much for a Volvo). And the American magazine ""Road & Track"" said that ""This is not your uncle Olof's car"", and in a positive sense. But in any case, I'd still like to own the 960 estate. Strong, tank-like chassis, 3.0L inline six, rear drive. :-) :-) BTW, the only car drivers who have blocked me are Land Rover or Jaguar drivers... :-) :-) :-) :-) What? You mean what I drive? A cheapo Japanese (a Toyota) of course, I do not have money for a *car*. (like BMW, Merc, Jaguar, Saab 9000, Volvo 850 (or 960), etc) If I had the money, I would have *bad* problems deciding which one to buy :-) :-) :-). ",7 "The Bob Dylan Baseball Abstract Just a little something I found while reading the Village Voice, which is not noted for its sports coverage, but occasionally the print some interesting features. This year, the predictions/team analyses for the 1993 season were presented in the form of Bob Dylan lyrics. I don't have the article in front of me, so I'll only give the memorable ones here that I remember and know the melody to. I could dig up more if there is interest. Yankess (to the tune of ""Subterranean Homesick Blues"") Howe is in the basement, mixing up the medicine. George is on the pavement thinking 'bout the government. Wade Boggs in a trench coat, bat out, paid off, Says he's got a bad back, wants to get it laid off. Look out kids, it's somethin' you did. Don't know when, but it's Columbus again. Mets (to the tune of ""Like a Rolling Stone"") Once upon a time you played so fine you threw away Dykstra before his prime, didn't you? People said ""Beware Cone, he's bound to roam"" But you thought they were just kidding you. You used to laugh about, The Strawberry that was headin' out. But now you don't talk so loud, Now you don't seem so proud, About having to shop Vince Coleman for your next deal.... Phillies (to the tune of ""Highway 61"") Well Daulton and Dykstra should have some fun, Just keep them off of Highway 61! Giants (to the tune of ""The Ballad of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter"") This is the story of the Magowan, The man St. Petersburg came to pan, For something that he never done, He's sit in the owner's box but one... Day he could have the Tampian of the world! ",9 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article green@plains.NoDak.edu (Bill Green) writes: > >1) Could it have been possible to have taken Koresh outside the compound at >some time before the Feb. 28th raid? > Yes, the local sheriff stated that anytime he wanted to talk to Koresh, all he had to do was call him and Koresh would come down. > > >One other point, I'm no fan of Janet Reno, but I do like the way she had the >""balls"" to go ahead and take full responsibility. Seems like the waffle boy >had problems figuring out just where he stood on the issue. Full agree with you here. I think its ridiculous that he did not even talk to Janet Reno until sometime Tuesday, however, he did talk with Wendell Hubbel(?). So who really is the Attorney General???? Hopefully the investigation will answer some of these bizarre questions. Katie ",16 "CELP vocoders gtoal@gtoal.com (Graham Toal) writes: >Absolutely. I just meant that no secure *dedicated* crypto device has >ever been given approval. Guerrilla underground devices should be well >possible with today's high-speed modems (not that I can think of many v32bis >modems that are approved either mind you - just the overpriced Couriers) > >Can someone tell me if hardware compression is or is not needed to run >digital speech down 14.4K? I think it is; I've heard it's not. Lets >say 8 bit samples. Would *raw* data at the corresponding sampling rate >be usable? If not, how fancy does the compression need to be? It is said that CELP vocoders can run on the highest speed 486s with some room to spare -- they turn 64kbit (8 bit samples, 8k samples/sec) into 4800 baud. However, DSP is hairy, and I have yet to see actual proof of this in the form of an implementation. I have heard fairly reliable rumors to the effect that a famous internetworking guru has a CELP implementation that runs on Sparcstation 1+'s with some room to spare, but I have not succeeded thus far in getting my hands on a copy -- the guru in question has a reputation for not releasing code without having beaten on it for a very very long time first. DSP experts are heavily encouraged to try their own hand at this problem. -- Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com -- Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui meme. ",11 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption In article <1qmugcINNpu9@gap.caltech.edu> hal@cco.caltech.edu (Hal Finney) writes: >The key question is whether non-Clipper encryption will be made illegal. > >> The Administration is not saying, ""since encryption >> threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement, >> we will prohibit it outright"" (as some countries have >> effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that ""every Does anyone know what countries are these? >> American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an >> unbreakable commercial encryption product."" There is a >> false ""tension"" created in the assessment that this issue is >> an ""either-or"" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be, >> and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned, >> balanced approach such as is proposed with the ""Clipper >> Chip"" and similar encryption techniques. > >The clear middle ground implied by these statements is to say that Americans >have the right to Clipper encryption, but not to unbreakable encryption. >This implies that, ultimately, non-Clipper strong encryption must become >illegal. With the following logical consequences (a) Using any code designed to obscure informatio which is not easily breakable will be illegal, including (i) Using code words such as ``Project P5'' (ii) Speaking a language other than English (iii) Ever refering implicitly to events not known to everyone, eg ""Hi John. How was last night?"" For all the listener knows, this may be a code for ""Did you pick up the drugs OK last night?"" of be a code for ""OK. We blow up the Pentagon at midnight."" (iv) Mentioning anything that could not be perfectly understood by an average person with no education. (v) Words with more than one syllable. (vi) Speaking with a heavy accent that could bemisunderstood by people not used to it. (vii) books with an ""Inner meaning""...such as ""Animal Farm"". >(As an aside, isn't the language here jarring? All this talk about >""harmonious balance"" when they're talking about taking away people's >right to communications privacy?) Yes. >It looks like the worst nightmares raised by Dorothy Denning's proposals >are coming true. If the government continues on this course, I imagine >that we will see strong cryptography made illegal. Encryption programs >for disk files and email, as well as software to allow for encrypted >voice communications, will be distributed only through the >""underground"". People will have to learn how to hide the fact that >they are protecting their privacy. I have a wonderful encrypter you can borrow that converts a message eg ""Meet me at 11:30 to bomb the White House. Bring some dynamite"" to an apparently (relatively) innoculous message. This message here is an example of the output for the above message :-). >It's shocking and frightening to see that this is actually happening here. It is shockiong that it could happen anywhere. It is shocking that it could happen in a country that has the arrogance to call itself free. What you can do: (1) Write to your congress person in plain text. (2) Write to your congress person in encrypted text. (decrypter optional) (3) Send some random keystroked to your congressperson (4) Send some random keystrokes accross the US boundaries, and keep the spooks busy trying to decode it. (5) Write your own encryption algorithms. (6) Don't buy clipper products. P.S. I can't work out why the US government doesn't want to sell them overseas. After all, they are rather easy for US interests to decode, so make a perfect tool for industrial/military espionage...lulling anyone stupid enough to buy it into a false sense of security. You will notice that there is NO mention anywhere about safety for non-Americans. Disclaimer: My opinions are mine alone, and do not represent anyone elses. I have nothing that I particularly want to hide at the moment...though I consider the right to be able to use whatever method of coding data I like to be high on my list of priorities. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Conway arc@leland.stanford.edu Phone: USA 415 497 1094 ",11 "Re: Christianity and repeated lives In article u9245669@athmail1.cause way.qub.ac.uk writes (single angle brackets): >> Jesus is talking with the >>apostles and they ask him why the pharisees say that before the messiah can >>come Elijah must first come. Jesus replies that Elijah has come, but they did >>not recognize him. It then says that the apostles perceived that he was referi ng >>to John the Baptist. This seems to me to clearly imply reincarnation. > >This was a popular belief in the Judaism of Jesus` time, that Elijah >would return again (as he had been taken in to heaven in a chariot and >did not actually die). However Jesus was referring to John the >Baptist not in the sense that Elijah was reincarnated as John >(remember Elijah didn`t die) but that John was a similar prophet to >Elijah. > There is no question of similarity in Jesus indication about John. The passage in Matthew is very direct. Where Luke (1:17) reports the angel Gabriel prophesying that John will go before Christ ""in the power and spirit of Elias"", In Matthew 11: 14, Jesus himself says of John, ""And if you care to accept it, he himself is Elijah, who was to come"". It is interesting that Jesus prepended the words, ""If you care to accept it"", as if to say that the implications of this truth, namely of rein- carnation, I will not force on you, but for those who can accept it, here it is. A Jewish poster to other newsgroups on Jewish esotericism and other topics has outlined the esoteric, cabbalistic Jewish teaching of of reincarnation and Karma, a teaching that is little known among Jews today, but which is apparently widespread enough in Israel that Hannah Hurnard (""Hinds Feet on High Places"") was told about it by a Rabbi she was trying to convert back in the 1940s as a missionary in Palestine. Thus there may well have been a small number of Jews who knew about this, whereas the large number of people did not. The statement of Jesus about John, the greatest human personality in the New Testament, is guarded but nevertheless quite direct. Again, the subject of reincarnation, one way or another, is not a subject of the New Testament, nor is the fate in general of the human being between death and the last judgement. But there are occasional indications that point to it. As for the ""popular belief"" that Elijah would come again, it was more than a popular belief, as Jesus confirms it in more than one place, and he never corrected those who were expecting Elijah -- for example, those who thought that Jesus himself be he. Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com) ",15 "Re: some scientists do not believe in the green house effect mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes: >In <1993Apr21.094001.6254@titan.ksc.nasa.gov> rodger-scoggin@ksc.nasa.gov (Rodger C. Scoggin) writes: >|In article <26VB3B9w164w@cellar.org>, techie@cellar.org (William A Bacon) says: >|The word some sums it up, alot of scientist have concluded that without a >|doubt Global Climate will/is occur(ring) and should be dealt with by source >Without a doubt some warming will occur. However there is mucho disagreement >on how much warming will occur. >The original doomsdayers were claiming 10 to 15 degrees Farhenheit. Lately >they have been saying 3-5 degrees. Newer studies hint that it might be less >than a degree. Of course, then there's the other side. An article in yesterday's Atlanta Journal stated that there are many scientists who have misgivings that the data being used to determine whether or not global warming is occuring is faulty. The point that the article made is that all long term temperature dataa collected has been in urban areas, and that any heat rise can be attributed to the growth and urbanization of the area. They called it the ""asphalt temperature trend"". We have no real long term data on remote areas, such as the middle of the Amazon rain forest, or the top of Mt. Everest or the Gobi desert, for that matter. An accompanying article mentioned that a group of scientists at NASA had developed a method for using a satellite to collect temperature data globally, and that preliminary results showed a slight downward trend attributed to the Mt Pinatubo eruption. It went on to say that even with the current downward trend, there appeared to be *NO* change in global temperatures using trend prediction methods for at least the next 50 years. I can quote the article verbatim if you like.. -- Tom Gillman, Systems Programmer | ""AAAAAGGGGHHHH"" Wells Computer Center-Ga. State Univ. | -- Any ""Classic"" Star Trek Security (404) 651-4503 syshtg@gsusgi2.gsu.edu | officer sometime during the show GSU doesn't care what I say on the Internet, why should you? ",18 "Reds snap 5-game losing streak: RedReport 4-18 Kevin Mitchell's sacrifice fly in the eighth off Brett Saberhagen plated pitch runner Cesar Hernandez to give the Reds a 2-3 come-from-behind victory over New York. Hernandez ran for pinch-hitter Cecil Espy, who got the inning started with a solid single to right, moved to second on ""Bob"" Kelly's infield sneaker down the third-base line, and to third on Jeff Branson's well-placed bunt--a rare show of excellent execution by the recently hapless Reds offense. Cincinnati trailed 2-0 after starter Tim Pugh blinked in the fifth. He had only given up one hit in the first four innings, a fourth-inning lead-off double by Vince Coleman. Coleman was left stranded at third by Bobby Bonilla after Joe Orselak popped to short. Orselak was pinch-hitting for Eddie Murray who argued plate umpire Kellogg's inside strike by ""drawing the line"" (really, he should know better than that). Murray, and later manager Jeff Torborg ended up getting tossed. The Mets' fifth started with a Howard Johnson's first-pitch homer. Pugh must have been slightly shaken, as he was popped on the next pitch by Jeff Kent's single, then a Ryan Thompson liner to left was (surprise) misplayed by Mitchell and turned into a RBI triple. Catcher Hundley's grounder to the drawn-in Branson failed to bring Thompson in, then the play of the game occured: Saberhagen was due up, so Reds pitching coach Larry Rothschild met with the infield to discuss the possibility of a suicide squeeze. They called it perfectly: Thompson was hung out to dry after Pugh's first-pitch pitch out and the threat ended. (Isn't the NATIONAL LEAGUE great??) The Reds picked up 2 runs in the seventh to knot up the game. After Barry Larkin's ground out, Mitchell, Chris Sabo, and Randy Milligan got back-to-back-to-back singles--the third scoring Mitchell. Reggie Sanders then plated Sabo with a long fly to center. A double by Oliver might have scored runner Dan Wilson, but third base coach Dave Bristol threw up the stop sign too late--Wilson himself was hung out to dry killing the Reds rally. Rob Dibble came on in the ninth and pitched shakily. With two outs and a runner on second Bonilla came to the plate and all I could think of was the Sunday game in late August last year when Bonilla's three-run dinger slapped a loss on Dibble and spelled the beginning of the end for Cinci's season. Bonilla ended up walking, and HoJo flied out to left to give the Reds their first win in a week, and earned Dibble his third save in as many opportunities. The win went to Steve Foster (1-2) who got in what must be an ego-boosting two perfect innings work, striking out three. Saberhagen (2-1) got the loss--though I'm a bit surprised he even pitched in the eighth. I'll take it, though. The Reds are now 3-9, still the worst team in baseball with the Royals victory today. The Mets are 6-5. The Line: New York Mets AB R H K BB LO -----------------------------------------------|---------------------------- Coleman lf 4 0 1 0 0 0 Fernandez ss 4 0 0 1 0 0 Murray 1b 1 0 0 0 0 0 Orselak ph/rf 3 0 1 0 0 0 Bonilla rf/1b 3 0 0 2 1 1 Johnson 3b 3 1 1 1 0 2 Kent 2b 3 1 1 1 0 0 Thompson cf 3 0 1 1 0 0 Hundley c 3 0 0 2 0 0 Saberhagen p 3 0 0 0 0 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Totals 30 2 5 8 1 3 HR-Johnson (off Pugh, leading off fifth, 0-0 pitch) 3b-Thompson (off Pugh, in fifth, 0 out, 1 RBI, picked-off) 2b-Coleman (off Pugh, in fourth, 0 out, 0 on, stranded at third) RBI-Johnson, Thompson Cincinnati Reds AB R H K BB LO -----------------------------------------------|---------------------------- Kelly cf 4 0 1 0 0 0 Branson 2b 3 0 1 0 0 0 Larkin ss 3 0 0 0 1 0 Mitchell lf 3 1 1 0 0 0 Dibble p 0 0 0 0 0 0 Sabo 3b 4 1 1 1 0 2 Milligan 1b 3 0 3 0 0 0 Wilson pr/c 0 0 0 0 0 0 Sanders rf 2 0 0 0 0 1 Oliver c/1b 3 0 1 1 0 1 Pugh p 1 0 0 1 0 0 Roberts ph 1 0 0 1 0 0 Foster p 0 0 0 0 0 0 Espy ph 1 0 1 0 0 0 Hernandez pr/lf 0 1 0 0 0 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Totals 28 3 9 4 1 5 (*) (*) Oliver was stranded in the seventh after his double when Wilson was run down. 2b Oliver (off Saberhagen, 2 out, runner on first, stranded) RBI-Milligan, Sanders, and Mitchell Sac-Branson SF-Sanders and Mitchell IBB-Larkin GDP-Larkin New York 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 ---- 2-5-0 Cincinnati 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 x ---- 3-9-0 Pitching IP R ER H K BB NEW YORK Saberhagen (L 2-1) 8 3 3 9 4 1 CINCINNATI Pugh 6 2 2 4 4 0 Foster (W 1-2) 2 0 0 0 3 0 Dibble (S 3) 1 0 0 1 1 1 PB- Wilson Ejected-Murray, Torborg Umps-Kellogg/Relliford/Runge/DeMuth Attendance 32,435 T- 2:23 Coming up: The Reds travel to Pittsburgh for three then continue on into Chicago for three. Next game is Tuesday at 7:35, expected to pitch are Belcher (0-1) vs. Tomlin (0-0). RStimets ",9 "Help 8088/80286 advic --> A humble response to a letter by G. Scott Braley written 04-21-93 20:43. GSB> a 286 upgrade would probably cost about $50, 386 about $150 or so. GSB> Coprocessors or accelerator cards would cost at least that much. 'Tis true! I just saw an add for 286/20 motherboards for $80. I have seen whole 286/12 systems, complete with case, power supply, keyboard, floppy, and mono card/monitor going for $250. ... ""He was a man, all and all, I shall not look upon his like again."" --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",3 "Official Rules of Baseball ISBN I am trying to get a copy of the _official_ rules of baseball. Someone once sent me the ISBN number of it, but I have since lost it. Can anyone give me this information, or tell me where I can find the book? None of my local bookstores have it. +---------------------------------------------------+------------------------+ | ""I'm walking home from school, and I'm watching | Jack McKinney | | some men building a new house, and the guy ham- | jmckinney@tamu.edu | | mering on the roof calls me a paranoid little +------------------------+ | weirdo.... in Morse code."" | This space | | -Emo Philips | for rent | +---------------------------------------------------+------------------------+ ",9 "Re: Diamond Products Boycot? On Fri, 23 Apr 1993 07:01:17 GMT Markfried Fellensiek (ins413j@mdw056.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote: | If you're considering buying a system, with a view to using | it to run Unix (Linux, bsd, etc...) or some other special software, | there is a good chance that it WILL NOT WORK with the Diamond cards. | This is due to Diamond's propriety attitude to it's hardware: | it's impossible to get free information from them about their chips | (specifically their dot-clocks) without paying, and signing non-disclosure | agreements. | This made it impossible for the Free Software Foundation to provide | X-Windows compatibility with these cards, as diamond didn't want to | divulge programming neccessities. Considering the above, and some postings about Diamond's bad attitute towars customers, I ordered and ActixGE+ VLB 2M card. It will arive these days. -- Penio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu Disclaimer: All oppinions are mine. ",3 "Re: The doctrine of Original Sin Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno ) writes: >Joseph H. Buehler writes: >>This all obviously applies equally well to infants or adults, since >>both have souls. Infants must be baptized, therefore, or they cannot >>enter into Heaven. They too need this form of life in them, or they >>cannot enter into Heaven. >Are you saying that baptism has nothing to do with asking Jesus to come into >your heart and accepting him as your savior, but is just a ritual that we >must go through to enable us to enter Heaven? My feeling on baptism is this: parents baptize their baby so that the baby has the sanctifying grace of baptism (and thus removal of original sin) on its soul in the event of an unexpected death. That is, the parents speak on behalf of the child which is too young to speak on its own. This should not surprise anyone: don't parents *always* do what they believe is the best for their baby? Why would that apply to the baby's physical needs only but not his/her spiritual needs to have God's grace? The purpose of confirmation is for the baby (now young adult) to decide to re-affirm for himself/herself the promises that his/her parents made at baptism. That is where accepting Jesus into your heart comes in. In baptism, the parents ask Jesus to come into their baby's heart; at confirmation the child repeats that request independently. (By the way, these are my personal feelings, though I believe they are pretty close to what the doctrinal position of the Catholic Church on this issue. Can anyone out there back me up or correct me? ",15 "How difficult is it to get Penguin tickets? The subject line says it all. Is it terribly difficult to get tickets to Penguins games, especially now that they are in the playoffs? Would it be easy to find scalpers outside of the Igloo selling tickets? Dean Money dmoney@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ",10 "Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences? In article oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas) writes: [stuff about Dodge Shadow deleted] > As an ex-Fleet Mgr. of 3000 cars, they were amoung the most trouble free of >all models. I bought one for my wife. What do you mean by ""all models"", all models of cars, all Chrysler models, all models that the fleet manager had bought? Because there is no way in hell that the Shadow is the most reliable car of all models sold, not even Chrysler's dept. of lies, damned lies and statistics would claim that. Craig > ",7 "4-sale calculator Sharp brand ""Pocket Computer"" model PC-1246 Dimensions; 3.5 x 5 x 0.5 inches. Has 15-digit LCD display 53 rubber keys (w/alphabet) built-in BASIC prog.language an 11-pin-socketed interface for optional cassette drive. (Don't have) slide-over/reversable plastic cover. Sorry, no owners manual. A program or two still in memory. Asking $15 + shipping (about $2 in U.S.) Thanks Pete 3mwieu4@cmuvm.cmich.edu ",6 "How do I make me own really-short-run CD's I want to be able to take a bunch of home-made songs (from DAT or other suitable master) and output them to a short run (10-20 off) of standard music CDs. Would one of the CD recorders designed for writeable CD ROMs work for this purpose? Alternatively, is there a service that does this sort of thing for a fee? I'm after as much information as possible on the alternatives (cost, lead time, equipment required, procedure to follow, etc.) Email replies would be appreciated. %%%% Geva Patz Geva Department of Computer Science, WITS University %%%% geva@concave.cs.wits.ac.za ",12 "Why does Illustrator AutoTrace so poorly? I've been trying to figure out a way to get Adobe Illustrator to auto-trace >exactly< what I see on my screen. But it misses the edges of templates by as many as 6 pixels or more - resulting in images that are useless - I need exact tracing, not approximate. I've tried adjusting the freehand tolerances as well as autotrace tolerances but it doesn't help. Any suggestions? -- charles boesel @ diablo creative | If Pro = for and Con = against cboesel@diablo.uu.holonet.net | Then what's the opposite of Progress? +1.510.980.1958(pager) | What else, Congress. ",1 "Re: If You Were Pat Burns ... Borchevsky is 5'9"" and Gilmour is 5'11""...I think Gilmour slightly outweighs Borchevsky. Andreychuk is also about 5'11"", I think. Susan teeheehee...oops! ",10 "Re: Price drop on C650 within 2 months? In article ns111310@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Nathaniel Sammons) writes: > I am going to be getting a C650 soon, but I don;t want Apple > to come out with the Cyclones and the Tempest in a month > and have the price drop on the system I want. I have negotiated a > good deal with a supplier for a C650 8/80 and I would like to jump on it, > but, again, I don't want the price drop to smuther me. BTW, the deal > I have is a C650 8/80 with mouse for $2295... does anyone know of a better > deal? > > thanks, > > Is that the low-end configuration? If it is, it has the 68LC040 (no FPU), as opposed to all the other configurations with a 68RC040 (has an FPU). Be sure you know what you are getting before you buy!!! The 68RC040 is around $350-$400 right now, if you intend to upgrade it from a 68LC040. Sunny ",4 "Re: Accelerator for SE I too am interested in peoples' experience with accelerators for the SE. Is an accelerator the best route to improve performace in my SE, or should I consider upgrading to an SE/30 motherboard? Obviously, buying a new mac would be ideal, but alas, I only have enough money for an accelerator or motherboard. E-mail reply preferred. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Labovitz Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering U. Penn ",4 "Final Regular Season Team Goalie Stats I would appreciate it if someone could volunteer to verify the shots on goal and save percentage numbers for me, so I can put these stats on the archive site. Contact me by mail if you want to volunteer. Here are the team goalie stats as of: Wed Apr 21 09:09:38 CST 1993 These stats include games up to and including the Sunday previous to the date listed above. They have been verified against what is printed in my newspaper every Tuesday. They don't print shots and save percentage numbers, so those are not verified. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, let me know. Randy ------- MP = Minutes Played, GA = Goals against, SO = Shutouts, GAA = Goals against average W = Wins, L = Losses, T = Ties SOG = Shots on Goal, SV = Save Percentage MP GA SO GAA W L T SOG SV TM Player ======================================================= 4106 177 7 2.59 41 18 11 1879 0.906 CHI Ed Belfour 996 49 2 2.95 6 7 1 414 0.882 CHI Jim Waite -------------------------------------------------------------- 5108 230 9 2.70 47 25 12 2296 0.900 CHI 479 18 2 2.25 6 2 0 232 0.922 TOR Daren Puppa 2781 116 2 2.50 25 15 7 1287 0.910 TOR Felix Potvin 1665 87 1 3.14 13 9 4 823 0.894 TOR Grant Fuhr 160 15 0 5.63 0 3 0 91 0.835 TOR Rick Wamsley -------------------------------------------------------------- 5097 241 5 2.84 44 29 11 2438 0.901 TOR 25 1 0 2.40 0 0 0 10 0.900 BOS Mike Bales 1322 64 1 2.90 9 8 4 596 0.893 BOS John Blue 3194 168 3 3.16 37 14 3 1354 0.876 BOS Andy Moog 542 31 0 3.43 5 4 0 225 0.862 BOS Reggie Lemelin -------------------------------------------------------------- 5096 268 4 3.16 51 26 7 2190 0.878 BOS 3702 186 4 3.01 43 14 5 1889 0.902 PIT Tom Barrasso 1368 78 0 3.42 13 7 2 691 0.887 PIT Ken Wregget -------------------------------------------------------------- 5083 268 5 3.16 56 21 7 2582 0.896 PIT 3890 196 1 3.02 29 28 9 2194 0.911 STL Curtis Joseph 1210 74 1 3.67 8 8 2 628 0.882 STL Guy Hebert -------------------------------------------------------------- 5110 278 2 3.26 36 36 11 2825 0.902 STL 1817 94 1 3.10 18 8 4 858 0.890 VAN Kay Whitmore 3261 184 3 3.39 28 21 5 1620 0.886 VAN Kirk McLean -------------------------------------------------------------- 5087 278 4 3.28 46 29 9 2449 0.886 VAN 1193 64 0 3.22 13 4 2 522 0.877 DET Vincent Riendeau 3880 210 4 3.25 34 24 7 1898 0.889 DET Tim Cheveldae -------------------------------------------------------------- 5088 280 4 3.30 47 28 9 2425 0.885 DET 40 1 0 1.50 0 0 0 19 0.947 MTL Frederick Chabot 3595 192 2 3.20 31 25 5 1813 0.894 MTL Patrick Roy 1433 81 1 3.39 17 5 1 686 0.882 MTL Andre Racicot -------------------------------------------------------------- 5087 280 3 3.30 48 30 6 2522 0.889 MTL 1311 70 1 3.20 14 4 1 629 0.889 CAL Jeff Reese 3732 203 2 3.26 29 26 9 1805 0.888 CAL Mike Vernon 65 5 0 4.62 0 0 1 39 0.872 CAL Andrei Trefilov -------------------------------------------------------------- 5120 282 3 3.30 43 30 11 2476 0.886 CAL 1 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 0 1.000 WAS Byron Dafoe 343 10 2 1.75 3 2 0 162 0.938 WAS Rick Tabaracci 3282 181 1 3.31 27 23 5 1531 0.882 WAS Don Beaupre 1421 83 0 3.50 13 9 2 681 0.878 WAS Jim Hrivnak 20 2 0 6.00 0 0 0 7 0.714 WAS Olaf Kolzig -------------------------------------------------------------- 5085 286 3 3.37 43 34 7 2391 0.880 WAS 3476 193 3 3.33 26 26 5 1683 0.885 MIN Jon Casey 1596 97 1 3.65 10 12 5 803 0.879 MIN Darcy Wakaluk -------------------------------------------------------------- 5090 293 4 3.45 36 38 10 2489 0.882 MIN 1429 75 0 3.15 11 10 4 716 0.895 BUF Dominik Hasek 1694 98 0 3.47 11 15 2 903 0.891 BUF Grant Fuhr 1306 78 0 3.58 11 5 4 706 0.890 BUF Daren Puppa 664 41 0 3.70 5 6 0 344 0.881 BUF Tom Draper -------------------------------------------------------------- 5104 297 0 3.49 38 36 10 2674 0.889 BUF 2655 146 1 3.30 22 20 2 1314 0.889 NYI Glenn Healy 2253 130 0 3.46 17 15 5 1067 0.878 NYI Mark Fitzpatrick 157 10 0 3.82 1 2 0 78 0.872 NYI Danny Lorenz -------------------------------------------------------------- 5088 297 1 3.50 40 37 7 2470 0.880 NYI 1939 110 0 3.40 18 9 4 947 0.884 QUE Stephane Fiset 2988 172 0 3.45 29 16 5 1525 0.887 QUE Ron Hextall 154 10 0 3.90 0 2 1 66 0.848 QUE Jacques Cloutier -------------------------------------------------------------- 5101 300 0 3.53 47 27 10 2536 0.882 QUE 2672 151 2 3.39 19 21 3 1322 0.886 NJ Chris Terreri 2389 146 2 3.67 21 16 4 1180 0.876 NJ Craig Billington -------------------------------------------------------------- 5080 299 4 3.53 40 37 7 2505 0.881 NJ 2757 152 4 3.31 20 18 7 1519 0.900 NYR John Vanbiesbrouck 224 14 0 3.75 1 2 1 116 0.879 NYR Corey Hirsch 2105 134 1 3.82 13 19 3 1184 0.887 NYR Mike Richter -------------------------------------------------------------- 5108 308 5 3.62 34 39 11 2826 0.891 NYR 2512 143 5 3.42 20 17 6 1329 0.892 PHI Tommy Soderstrom 1769 111 1 3.76 13 11 5 932 0.881 PHI Dominic Roussel 802 59 0 4.41 3 9 0 405 0.854 PHI Stephane Beauregard -------------------------------------------------------------- 5107 319 6 3.75 36 37 11 2672 0.881 PHI 3855 227 2 3.53 33 26 6 2119 0.893 WIN Bob Essensa 180 13 0 4.33 2 1 0 96 0.865 WIN Jim Hrivnak 959 70 0 4.38 5 10 0 502 0.861 WIN Rick Tabaracci 73 6 0 4.93 0 0 1 34 0.824 WIN Mike O'Neill -------------------------------------------------------------- 5084 320 2 3.78 40 37 7 2755 0.884 WIN 1591 97 0 3.66 7 19 2 757 0.872 TB Wendell Young 1163 71 0 3.66 8 10 1 573 0.876 TB JC Bergeron 2268 150 1 3.97 8 24 4 1197 0.875 TB Pat Jablonski 45 7 0 9.33 0 1 0 21 0.667 TB David Littman -------------------------------------------------------------- 5088 332 1 3.92 24 53 7 2557 0.870 TB 3753 240 1 3.84 17 38 6 2069 0.884 EDM Bill Ranford 1338 93 0 4.17 9 12 2 763 0.878 EDM Ron Tugnutt -------------------------------------------------------------- 5099 337 1 3.97 26 50 8 2836 0.881 EDM 1735 111 0 3.84 15 8 4 987 0.888 LA Robb Stauber 2718 175 2 3.86 18 21 6 1545 0.887 LA Kelly Hrudey 532 35 0 3.95 6 4 0 294 0.881 LA Rick Knickle 98 13 0 7.96 0 2 0 51 0.745 LA David Goverde -------------------------------------------------------------- 5100 340 2 4.00 39 35 10 2858 0.881 LA 11 0 0 0.00 0 0 0 3 1.000 HAR Corrie D'Alessio 168 9 0 3.21 1 1 1 87 0.897 HAR Mike Lenarduzzi 867 57 0 3.94 5 9 1 499 0.886 HAR Mario Gosselin 2656 184 0 4.16 16 27 3 1470 0.875 HAR Sean Burke 1373 111 0 4.85 4 15 1 784 0.858 HAR Frank Pietrangelo -------------------------------------------------------------- 5097 369 0 4.34 26 52 6 2851 0.871 HAR 1326 95 0 4.30 2 17 1 743 0.872 OTT Daniel Berthiaume 3388 250 0 4.43 8 46 3 1711 0.854 OTT Peter Sidorkiewicz 90 10 0 6.67 0 2 0 44 0.773 OTT Darrin Madeley 249 30 0 7.23 0 5 0 146 0.795 OTT Steve Weeks -------------------------------------------------------------- 5074 395 0 4.67 10 70 4 2656 0.851 OTT 2074 142 1 4.11 7 26 0 1250 0.886 SJ Arturs Irbe 60 5 0 5.00 0 1 0 46 0.891 SJ Wade Flaherty 2000 176 0 5.28 2 30 1 1220 0.856 SJ Jeff Hackett 930 86 0 5.55 2 14 1 559 0.846 SJ Brian Hayward -------------------------------------------------------------- 5077 414 1 4.89 11 71 2 3079 0.866 SJ -- Randy A. Coulman, M.Sc. | ARIES Laboratory Research Assistant | Department of Computational Science | University of Saskatchewan coulman@cs.Usask.ca | Saskatoon, SK S7N 0W0 ",10 "DoD Pins...NOT! Hi there kids and kidlets... It your ol' pal the KotPM (Keeper of the Pin Money!) I've got good new and bad news... Good news - I got laid..er... The pins will be coming, to use the computer software phrase, ""real soon now"" Bad news - Right after we placed our order, the company upped its minimum order for manufacturing. We got in under the wire (with an order of 115 or so pins), but as a result of the low number of pins, we were relegated to the ""we'll get to it in-between other runs"" bin. As a result, it seems that it may be another 4 or 5 weeks until your beloved Geeky is guiding you along the blacktop.. (And we thought madonnas on the dashboard were foolish; hmmm, now, if that were Madonna sitting on my dashboard, that could be DANGEROUS...hell. I'm tough.) SO...please continue to be patient. As soon as they arrive, I'll post the grand announcement, and rush our Messiah on his way directly to your abode. In the meantime, if you need revised versions of the holy word of Geeky, please send $15.95 cash or money order (no COD's) to: Ranch Apocalyp...er......Ashram Geeky, 305 Cyberspace Place... I'm off to MSF class...hope it's not too BORING...my wife made me go with her! Michael Menard ",8 "Bernoulli 44 Removeable SCSI Drive & Disks Storage space for sale: Iomega 44 MB removeable HD for sale w/ 16 cartridges. Total storage space comes out to be about 750 MB. 6 cartridges still in original shrinkwrapping, unused. Note: this is NOT compatible with SysQuest 45 cartridges. SCSI interface required... plugs right into the back of Macintoshes, but I don't have a controller for the IBM. All utilities I have for it are for the Mac. If you have a Mac, then this is for you! I have a ton of software on these disks that I don't use anymore, because I sold my mac system. Stuff included: Most of the PD stuff from info-mac site, LOTS of GIF's, and LOTS of sound effects. (1 entire disk with just sounds) I am asking $900 for all, plus shipping. For more information, send me mail (cxs2341@ultb.isc.rit.edu) or call (716) 427-0701... ask for Sawran cheers chris cxs2341@ultb.isc.rit.edu cxs2341@ritvax.isc.rit.edu ",6 "Car for Sale From mikefran Wed Apr 21 10:55:39 EDT 1993 Article: 56 of csc.general Xref: wam.umd.edu dc.forsale:5756 dc.general:6088 um.general:2342 csc.general:56 Newsgroups: dc.forsale,dc.general,um.general,csc.general Path: wam.umd.edu!mikefran From: mikefran@wam.umd.edu (Michael Francis) Subject: Car for Sale Message-ID: <1993Apr21.142729.7039@wam.umd.edu> Followup-To: poster Keywords: 1981 Volkswagon Scirocco Sender: usenet@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac3.wam.umd.edu Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park Distribution: csc,um,dc Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 14:27:29 GMT 1981 Volkswagon Scirocco Gold exterior and interior 5 speed transmission AM/FM Stereo with cassette Sunroof Engine in good condition New Tires Needs $300 work on front left control arm because of damage caused by pothole. Runs well Asking $800.00 AS IS / OBO. email: mikefran@wam.umd.edu ",6 "Re: Did US drive on the left? Rob Reilly: >whips and their tempers. Initially, all cars were built with the driver's >controls on the right because that's the way people drove buggies, so the This is just not so - many of the earliest cars had their steering controls in the center of the vehicle, and there is no discernible pattern of left- or right-hand steering controls until a few years into the 20th century, when, in America at least, left-hand wheels became the pattern. The mule team (or horses, I imagine) explanation, however, seems to have some merit. Dan dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon University Applied History ""This coffee plunges into the stomach...the mind is aroused, and ideas pour forth like the battalions of the Grand Army on the field of battle.... Memories charge at full gallop...the light cavalry of comparisons deploys itself magnificently; the artillery of logic hurry in with their train of ammunition; flashes of wit pop up like sharp-shooters."" Honore de Balzac, 30 cups/day. ",7 "Re: IDE Cable vacsc0qe@VAX.CSUN.EDU wrote: : I just bought a new IDE hard drive for my system to go with the one : I already had. My problem is this. My system only had a IDE cable : for one drive, so I had to buy cable with two drive connectors : on it, and consequently have to switch cables. The problem is, : the new hard drive's manual refers to matching pin 1 on the cable : with both pin 1 on the drive itself and pin 1 on the IDE card. But : for the life of me I cannot figure out how to tell which way to plug : in the cable to align these. Most IDE drives that I have dealt with have had pin 2 labeled on the printed circuit board (this is sufficient to determine which side is which). If your IDE drive does not have a label, then you can look for a polarization notch in the receptacle (the connector on the drive with the pins). If the receptacle is center polarized, that is it has one rectangular notch about 4 mm wide positioned in the center of one side, then you can identify pin 1 as follows: look into the pins with the notch at the top, pin 1 is at the top right. On all drives I have seen this is toward the power connector. As for which pin is pin 1 on the controller, well you can use the same criteria but look hard for the labelling of any pin. Once you know which end pin 1&2 are on or pins 39 & 40 (the oposite end), then you are all set. All you need to do is keep the pin 1 end connected to the pin 1 end. You don't even have to look at the cable itself. Just trace the pin 1 side of the cable through. Usually the pin 1 of the cable is identified by a different color (red usually). But beware - many cable makers are not very careful about this - I have seen cables with pin 40 being the one marked red. Of course with non-polarized connectors this doesn't matter - you can plug the cable in either way and YOU decide which side is pin 1. : Secondly, the cable has like a connector at two ends and one between them. : I figure one end goes in the controler and then the other two go into : the drives. Does it matter which I plug into the ""master"" drive : and which into the ""Slave""? any help appreciated. thanks... It doesn't matter what gets plugged where. But it does matter how the drives are jumpered. There will be (amongst other options) two jumpers that you should be concerned with on BOTH drives. One jumper will select whether the drive is the slave or the master. If it is the master, then a second jumper selects whether or not a slave is present. You will have to consult the docuementation that came with you drives. If you do not have docuementation, then just call the manufacturers hotline number or fax number if they have one. This kind of information is routinely needed by people just like yourself. They will fax you complete info about the jumpers. If you don't have convenient access to a fax machine, then you can usually get voice help. Or post the specific question to this group. (I probably won't be able to help you). Good Luck Gordon Lang ",3 "Re: ugliest swing Ugliest swing..I am not sure. I think the ugliset stance is Jolio Franco of the Ranger. I wonder how that bat comes around in time to hit the ball. It looks bad but hey.it get the job done. ------TAC ",9 "Playoff pool rule revision Well, I will have to change the scoring on my playoff pool. Unfortunately I don't have time right now, but I will certainly post the new scoring rules by tomorrow. Does it matter? No, you'll enter anyway!!! Good! -- Keith Keller LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!! LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!! kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!! ""When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."" ",10 "Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50 As an additional data point, I have run Castrol 20W50 exclusively in the following cars: 75 Rabbit, 78 Scirocco, 76 Rabbit, 78 Bus, 70 Beetle, 76 Bus, 86 Jetta GLI. I've never had an oil-related problem. Disclaimer: It gets mighty hot down here. Kenneth finnegan@navo.navy.mil ",7 "Re: Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt > More accurate is that the government says its solid, other people >in the field who might be able to find out haven't yet done their >review of the chip design, and there's been a lot of wild speculation >and guesswork from those with little information that it might be >Swiss cheese. Oh, that puts the debate on -excellent- terms for our side: FEDS: You people saying that Clipper is insecure don't have any real information to support that judgment. ME: Fine -- show me this ""information"" that would prove me wrong. FEDS: That's secret! When it comes down to that, it looks suspiciously like some government official pasting ""TOP SECRET"" stamps over embarrasing information in order to save his own hide. In fact, framing the secrecy issue in that perspective is more likely to turn Joe Sixpack's suspicions against the Feds than the Constitutional argument -- a point I urge the others on the pro-freedom side to consider when making their case. ",11 "RE: XDM & DECnet ? # #Does XDM work with DECnet? I have an Ultrix machine running both TCP/IP #and DECnet. I have a number of X-terminals hanging off the Ultrix host also #running TCP/IP and DECnet. Presently I am using XDM for the login procedure #on the X-terminals using TCP/IP. Since XDM is basically just an X-windows #client, shouldn't I be able to run XDM on the DECnet protocol tower as well? # XDM is not just an X Window client. XDM has its own protocol (XDMCP) that operates of UCP on port 177. It does provide a Login window which is an X Window Client. As to using DECnet protocol. Looking through the source for XDM from X11R5 that I have here, it seems that the bare bones code is there but not completely there. # #My first inclination is that XDM is not your typical X client. It is making #TCP/IP specific socket calls. In this case the answer would be no; you can #not run XDM over DECnet. Is this right or not? Any feedback is appreciated. #Thanks. # From my look at the source, it seems you cannot run it over DECnet as shipped with X11R5. Patrick L. Mahan --- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM --------- Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered - Lazarus Long a capital crime. For a first offense, that is From the Notebooks of Lazarus Long ",5 "For Sale: Kawasaki EX500 (Michigan) * FOR SALE * From Ann Arbor, Michigan 1988 Kawasaki EX-500 6682 miles Cherry Red Excellent condition Asking $2300 Contact Brian at (313) 747-1604 (days) (313) 434-7284 (evenings & weekends) or e-mail at vaughan@umich.edu...or reply to this post. ",8 "Re: Cubs game of April 6th In article <1993Apr6.203330.4974@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> jclark@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (J. Michael Clark) writes: >Otis Nixion lined a single to left with two outs breaking up the no hitter. >Cubs win 1-0 on a 1 hitter by Jose Guzman. That's might be what it takes to beat the Braves this year. Look at Smoltz's pitching line: 6 hits, 2 walks, 1 ER, 7 SO and a loss. ",9 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: >In article , wcscps@superior.carleton.ca (Mike Richardson) writes: >[Lots of good points re Mormons in the US] >The founding fathers of the US were hardly great on religious freedoms. At >least one history I have read formed the opinion that they left for the >US not to practice religious freedom but to practice religious intolerance. Bzzt. Thank you for playing. You're confusing the puritans/pilgrims with the founding fathers. Difference of ~150 years and a much different culture... >Phill Hallam-Baker -- Phil Fraering |""Seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|Like how the ancient Mayans had televison."" Repo Man ",19 "Re: Newsgroup Split I haven't been following this thread, so appologies if this has already been mentioned, but how about comp.graphics.3d -- Kaveh Kardan kardank@ERE.UMontreal.CA ",1 "Re: Any info on Cyrix 486DRu2 chip? It seems that there are a lot of questions regarding the Cyrix 386 compatible 486DLC and 486DRU2. My info comes directly from Cyrix's Fast Fax service: And also from installing one of these chips in an IBM Model 80. The 486DLC is a 486 instruction set compatible CPU which fits into a 386DX socket (Pin Grid Array, or PGA). The DLC currently is available in 3 speeds. the 25, the 33, and the 40. They do not have a coprocessor on board, but any software query will return coproc as present. I guess they emulate the coproc instructions. Math functions are on the 386DX level without the actual coprocessor. The internal cache on the 486DLC is 1K. Cyrix literature claims a 85% hit rate. My informal tests show that the cache accounts for a 10% performance boost when it is enabled by software. Overall performance boost from a 386DX-25 to a 486DLC-25 is about 60%. The benchmarks I used were NU SI and QAPlus Dhrystones and Whetstones. The performance, with the cache enabled, is about on a par with my 386DX-40 with 256K external CPU cache, which is around the performance for a 486SX-25. The computer runs noticebly faster, and DOS 6 with Dblspace is not complaining. The company claims OS/2 compatibility, but I didn't test it. The 486DRU2 is not a chip, as commonly thought. The 486DRU2 is actually a small daughterboard slightly larger than the 386DX, which contains the logic to manage the clock doubler. This board plugs into the 386DX PGA, and the 486DLC-33 or 40 plugs into this board. I guess the board doubles the frequency apparent to the CPU, and insert wait states when access to the rest of the system is required. There are no info available from Cyrix there. Anyway, the DRU2 is available for 386DX-16, and 386DX-20 only. Double these clock rates, and you get the 32MHZ and the 40MHZ DLCs. If Cyrix is planning to do the same thing for the DRU2-50, then they need to put out the 50MHz DLC2 first... I also tested a DLC33 motherboard, along with a Cyrix Coprocessor. With 64K external cache, performance were about 30% faster than the 25, but still significantly (25%?) slower than an actual Intel 486DX. IMHO, the DLC is a great, low price upgrade for people who can't afford, or can't install, a new motherboard. It is definitely worth what I paid for it, but if you need 486DX-33 performance, the DLC33 won't cut it. I'm not sure about the DLC-40, but I think even if it matches the performance, it won't beat it in any significant way. The last time I posted info about the DLC, people sent quite a bit of mail, asking where I got it. So here is where I got mine: Treasure Chest peripherals, they advertise in the Computer Shopper. 1-800-677-9781 The 486DLC-25 kit was $179.00 But.... I liked the chip so much that I found the supplier, and became a dealer. If you are interested in the chip, e-mail me, and I can fax or mail you more info. I'm well aware of the net's policy against commercial use, So I can;t post anymore info here. However, if there are more questions regarding the 486DLC itself, I'll post what I can. jamesc 909-396-0408 -- ========================================= If someone asks if you are a God, you say... YES! ",3 "Re: Boom! Dog attack! In article BONG@slac.stanford.edu (Eric Bong) writes: > Nice ridin' Tex. I use the California DMV recommended technique: >slow as you aproach said dog and wick it up as you pass. I've often This must be the standard strategy that is taught, cuz that's what they told me to do in my Illinois MSF class. It works well, only you don't get the satisfaction of kicking the shit out of some rabid hell-beast. Alan ",8 "Re: Products to handle HDTV moving pircture (180MB/sec) How does the 16 bit color of HDTV work ? It can not be 5 bit Red Green and Blue like on the Macintosh. This gives only 64 gray levels. Apple also has developed a point-point network that is around 200MB (not sure if it is bits or bytes) per sec. -- Povl H. Pedersen - Macintosh specialist. Knows some DOS and UNIX too. pope@imv.aau.dk - povlphp@uts.uni-c.dk --- Finger me at pope@imv.aau.dk for PGP Public Key --- ",1 "Frame buffer question for X11R5 (Sun) X Window installation on a Sun4/470 with CG6 alone and with CG2 as screen:0.0 and CG6 as screen:0.1. Questions: 1) Are there any hardware configuration changes on the CG2 and/or CG6 devices that need to be made other than pulling out and inserting the CG2 frame buffer in the vme bus? 2) The CG6 is called a 'graphics accelerator' as apposed to a 'frame buffer'. What is the significance of this to the X server and how do we install the SunOS driver / X to be compatable. ----------------------- I would appreciate any information on this. I am posting this on the behalf of Dr. John Charlton (who does not have net access). Please reply to him directly at charlton@bme.unc.edu or just send it at this address and I will forward it. Thank you for your help! -Anay panvalka@cs.unc.edu ",5 "Luser! Hi, I am looking for a very high speed D/A converter (at least 8bits and 150MHz) for a research application. A paper in the January issue of IEEE Solid-State Circuits mentions a GaAs, 1GHz, 8bit DAC - anyone know where I can find such a thing? Even a somewhat slower Si DAC would do. Needless to say, I have looked in all the conventional places (Vitesse, Motorola, National, etc. etc.). Any pointers would be appreciated. --- Seema Varma ",12 "New planet/Kuiper object found? Tonigth a TV journal here in Brasil announced that an object, beyond Pluto's orbit, was found by an observatory at Hawaii. They named the object Karla. The program said the object wasn't a gaseous giant planet, and should be composed by rocks and ices. Can someone confirm these information? Could this object be a new planet or a Kuiper object? Thanks in advance. Francisco. -----------------------=====================================----the stars,---- | ._, | Francisco da Fonseca Rodrigues | o o | | ,_| |._/\ | | o o | | | |o/^^~-._ | COTUCA-Colegio Tecnico da UNICAMP | o | |/-' BRASIL | ~| | o o o | |\__/|_ /' | Depto de Processamento de Dados | o o o o | | \__ Cps | . | | o o o o | | | * __/' | InterNet : chico@ccsun.unicamp.br | o o o | | > /' | cotuca@ccvax.unicamp.br| o | | /' /' | Fone/Fax : 55-0192-32-9519 | o o | | ~~^\/' | Campinas - SP - Brasil | o o | -----------------------=====================================----like dust.---- ",14 "imake on DOS and Windows Has anyone had experience porting imake to DOS using a Microsoft, Watcom, or any other DOS compiler? Since I do not have easy access to News, a response to 'white_billy@po.gis.prc.com' would be appreciated. ",5 "Re: Top Ten Reasons Not to Aid Russians In article rcollins@ns.encore.com (Roger Collins) writes: >... >I ask myself, what law could we pass to prevent government from doing >stupid, frivilous things with OUR money? Then I think, the Constitution >was supposed to do that. Could someone please tell me what legitimate >constitutional power the federal government is using when it takes money >from my paycheck and gives it to needy countries? Seriously. > >Roger Collins > Since you asked, Article I Section 1. Article I Section 8. Article I Section 10. Article II Section 2. Article VI. Sixteenth Amendment. With this as a guide, try reading it yourself. jsh -- Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM ""One thing about data, it sure does cut| UUCP: ...!uunet!isc-br!thor!steveh the bulls**t."" - R. Hofferbert | Ma Bell: 509 838-8826 ",18 "Re: Maxima Chain wax (and mail-order) In article <1993Apr21.130512.147@linus.mitre.org> cookson@mbunix.mitre.org (Cookson) writes: >In article <93Apr20.211127.44984@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes: >>I bought it, I tried it: >>It is, truly, the miracle spooge. >>My chain is lubed, my wheel is clean, after 1000km. >I'd try it on the VFR, but goddamn Competition Accessories hasn't mailed my >order yet. Hell, it's only been two weeks and I was ordering some pretty >bizzare stuff. Like a clear RF-200 face sheild, and a can of Chain Wax... >Bastards. For what it's worth, I got my can in three days from Chaparral. That's UPS ground from CA to UT, YMMV. The stuff seems to work, and it doesn't attract grundge like PJ-1 Blue does. I gave it the acid test, a full day's worth of breaking in the Quadracer's new paddle tires down at the sand dunes. If there's anything wet & stickey it will be coated with sand at the end of the day, but the chain looked pretty clean. As far as mail-order goes, if Chaparral has it in stock (and they can tell you if it's in stock, or about how long it will take to back-order it if it's not), I usually get it in three days. Competition Accessories always seems to take a week or two to deliver. Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse also takes a week or two, and after trying to buy some boots from them last week, I don't think they actually stock anything. MAW was about $30 cheaper than Chaparral on Alpinestars Tech 7 boots, but on Monday I was hoping to get them by the end of the week, so I asked MAW a completely unreasonable question: ""Do you have them in stock?"" The conversation went something like this: I need to know if you have some boots in stock. Do you want to pay with Visa or Mastercard? I want to know if you have them in stock. Well, the computer doesn't show anything, I'd have to call the distributer to find out if we have them. So do you have them or not? Don't you understand what I'm saying? I have to call our distributer to find out if we have them in stock or not. Uh, right. So can you do it? Yea, call me back in an hour, and ask for Phil. So an hour later Phil isn't there, but Mike says he'll check, and call him back in half an hour. Half an hour later Mike isn't there either, but he left a note that says they'll have them by the end of the month (3 weeks away). Screw it, the 30 bucks isn't worth the hassle. I called Chaparral and asked if they had them in stock: Ooh, Alpinestars? Probably not, they are hard to keep in stock, but I'll check. What size? Size 10. Let's see, yes! Size 10, in blue & white, gray & white, black... I'll take the blacks! This was about noon on Monday, they arrived Thursday morning. Once again, three days via UPS ground. I _like_ Chaparral. I'm not completely down on MAW, they often have lower prices, but be prepared to wait. Oh, and if anyone's in the market for sand tires and other ATV stuff, Scorcher seems like a good outfit, friendly, fast, had the tires I wanted in stock, and were cheaper than Chaparral too. -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland bgardner@dsd.es.com ",8 "For sale: Air tix to Orlando, Vegas and Reno I have a certificate for one round-trip airfares to either Orlando, Las Vegas and Reno/Lake Tahoe. Expiration date is one year from now. The maximum retail value, depending on time and location, is estimated at $2000 for all three locations, including accommodation for 3 days and 2 nights at a leading hotel. I am asking for $1800 or best offer. Purchase of tickets for a single location is possible. For more information, call Goh at (415) 497-0663 or send mail to kmgoh@leland.stanford.edu -- ******************************************************************************* GOH KWANG MENG 116 ARROYO, WILBUR P.O.BOX 7029, STANFORD CA 94309 ",6 "Re: Clipper considered harmful [Restated and amplified] Brad Yearwood posts a long response to the issue of registering a phone-clipper relationship. It doesn't wash. Recall that law enforcement gets a court order to tap a suspect's phone calls. They do what they do now--figure out which lines to tap. They then record the stuff. If it's Clipper, they read the law enforcement block, extract the serial number, and get the keys using the court order. No new difficulties (such as using someone else's phone instrument or phone line) are introduced that wouldn't have existed absent clipper. If the crooks were going to use a pay phone (say), they could have done so without clipper. If the government figures out they're so doing, they listen in, and if it's a clipper conversation they get the serial number and then the keys. If the crooks use an innocent person's clipper phone on the tapped line there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the serial number, get the keys, and they are in business. No clipper chip to person association is ever needed. David -- David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of our information, errors and omissions excepted. ",11 "Re: I want that Billion In article <1rkb56INN9hs@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: >>What's more, if you buy Titans, the prize money is your entire return on >>investment. If you develop a new launch system, it has other uses, and >>the prize is just the icing on the cake. > >Unless you're Martin Marietta, since (as I recall) they bought out the GD >line of aerospace products. I think you've got an off-by-one error in your memory. :-) MM bought the satellite-building side of GE. E, not D. MM and GD are still competitors. >If MM/GD does it as an in-house project, their costs would look much better >than buying at ""list price."" Better, yes, but we're not talking order of magnitude. (Especially if you want to use Titan IV, which belongs to the USAF, not MM.) >... C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this >or that... Sure, you can get a heavylift launcher fairly cheap if you do it privately rather than as a gummint project. But we're still talking about something that will cost nine digits per launch, unless you can guarantee a large market to justify volume production. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Re: Let's build software cryptophones for over the internet... I forwarded an old posting about CELP speech compression: In case you'd like to experiment with CELP, you can obtain a software implementation of the 4800 bps Fed Std CELP coder for free: The U.S. DoD's Federal-Standard-1016 based 4800 bps code excited linear prediction voice coder version 3.2 (CELP 3.2) Fortran and C simulation source codes are now available for worldwide distribution at no charge (on DOS diskettes, but configured to compile on Sun SPARC stations) from: I've since been told that the source of this is on cygnus.com in /pub/celp.speech.tar.Z I'm not in a position to; any Sun tcp/ip gurus out there who think they can marry this with netfone by the end of the week? ;-) Seriously. I think someone with real net access and two sparcs could have this running by the end of the week. Then we ask the pgp guys to add a bytestream crypto filter. Two weeks at the most. [Damn, I wish I had my sparc back... I'm stuck on a 25mhz 386sx] Share and Enjoy! G PS You'll have to use archie to find netfone - I have a copy but no note of where it's from; author in the docs is kelvin@autodesk.com and he appears to be located in France ",11 "Re: ABOLISH SELECTIVE SERVICE In article <1993Apr16.131508.9518@ra.msstate.edu> fpa1@Trumpet.CC.MsState.Edu (Fletcher P Adams) writes: >kmitchel@netcom.com (Kenneth C. Mitchell) writes: >>Dave Borden (borden@head-cfa.harvard.edu) wrote: >>: The Selective Service Registration should be abolished. To start with, the >>: draft is immoral. Whether you agree with that or not, we don't have one now, >>: and military experts agree that the quality of the armed forces is superior >>: with a volunteer army than with draftees. Finally, the government has us >>: on many lists in many computers (the IRS, Social Security Admistration and >>: Motor Vehicle Registries to name a few) and it can find us if it needs to. >>: Maintaining yet another list of people is an utter waste of money and time. >>: Let's axe this whole department, and reduce the deficit a little bit. > >I'm really surprised Clinton hasn't already tried to do this. He seems >to want to tackle other irrelevant issues first, so why not this one as well. Considering that Clinton received a draft notice and got out of it (he admits it) the political feasibility of him abolishing it is not something he would be inclined to risk any extra exposure on. > >>Let me say this about that, as a retired Navy officer; >> >>I agree. Cut it. But let's not stop there. >> >>Eliminate the C-17 transport. > >Wrong. We need its capability. Sure it has its problems, very few >airplanes haven't, but getting rid of something we need is not the >answer. What do you want to do, start over a rebuild a new airplane >from scatch? It'll have its problems as well and there will be calls >again, for it to be scrapped. THe other option is to try to extend >the life of the C-5s and C-141s that are getting extremely old. If you read Aviation Week, the C-5 line can be reopened and the C-5s would be delivered a year earlier and cost a billion less for the program. Politically, though, the C-17 is popular pork. > >>Scrap the Seawolf SSN-21 nuclear submarine. >>Ground the B-2 stealth bomber. > >It'll cost jobs, but I'm for it. We especially don't need a B-2. THe >SSN-21, I know litttle about. > Agreed. Congress took money from NASA and FHA to fund the second Seawolf. The shipyards are still building Los Angeles Class submarines and there is a lack of ASW foes to contend with. The Navy is considering reducing the number of attack subs to 40 (Navy Times) and that would entail getting rid of or mothballing some of the current Los Angeles class. Politically, General Dynamics is in Connecticut and we will get Seawolf subs whether we need them or not. In addition, more bases need to be closed. Probably Long Beach Naval Station and others. The Navy is talking about three main bases on each coast being required to home port a total fleet of 320 ships. The question is whether Les Aspin and Clinton will be able to face down a pork happy Congress. -- Marc Mueller ",18 "AHL playoff results (concrete) Well, I got the scores for Sat's games... AHL PLAYOFF SCORES-- FIRST ROUND (home team in CAPS) ================================ GAMES PLAYED ON SAT, 4/24 ------------------------- BALTIMORE 3 Binghamton 1 ROCHESTER 3 Utica 2 SPRINGFIELD 4 Providence 3 =================================================================== SERIES STATI (plural of status? :) ---------------------------------- Adirondack defeated CDI, 4-0 Springfield defeated Providence, 4-2 Binghamton tied w/Baltimore, 2-2 Rochester defeated Utica, 4-1 St John's leads Moncton, 3-1 Cape Breton defeated Fredericton, 4-1 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Bri Farenell farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu + + AHL, ECAC and Boston Bruins contact for rec.sport.hockey + + Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81 '86 '89 '92 + + Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66 '91 '93 + + Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90 '91 + + AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ",10 "Re: Am I going to Hell? tbrent@ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent) writes: >I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ So you believe in the existance of One creator I assume. >definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion >about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the >effect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus >as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew, >buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not >believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be >lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only >god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions. Ok, god has the disclaimer, reserves the right to judge individual cases. If we believe him to be loving, then we also believe him to be able to serve justice to all. Don't worry if a Jew, or athiest is going to heaven or hell, for that is god to judge (although truly if you were concerned you could only worry abput those who refuse to believe/satisfy gods decrees) as much as keeping yourself straight. If you see something going on that is wrong, discuss it and explore it before making summary judgement. People have enough free will to choose for themselves, so don't force choices on them, just inform them of what they're choices are. God will take care of the rest in his justice. >Thanks, >-Tim -- Mohammad R. Khan / khan0095@nova.gmi.edu After July '93, please send mail to mkhan@nyx.cs.du.edu ",15 "Re: does dos6 defragment?? In article <1993Apr6.040254.8443@cs.brown.edu> ksl@engin1.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Kiseok Lee ) writes: >From: ksl@engin1.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Kiseok Lee ) >Subject: Re: does dos6 defragment?? >Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 04:02:54 GMT >In article , rhc52134@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard) writes: >|> Geoffrey S. Elbo writes: >|> >|> >Yes, and it is the fastest defrag I've ever watched. It did a 170MB >|> >hard disk in 20 minutes. >|> >|> I found the MS defrag looks very much like Norton Speedisk. >|> Is it just a strip-down version of the later? >|> >|> I have both Norton Speedisk and Backup, so I was wondering >|> if I need to install MS Backup? >|> >|> Richard >|> > >Yes, defragger IS come from Norton. >If you have Norton Utility, don't bother. Don't bother if you have CPBackup or Fastback. They all offer options not available in the stripped-down MS version (FROM CPS!). Examples - no proprietary format (to save space), probably no direct DMA access, and no tape drive! You NEED MS Defrag if you use doublespace to work on the compressed volume. ",2 "Re: Too Many European in NHL RA> Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. R> I am sick of watching a game between an American and a Canadian RA> team (let's say, the Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names R> like ""Bure"" ""Konstantinov"" and ""Borshevshky"". Is this North America RA> isn't it? I disagree. I think the NHL should feature the best hockey talent in the world -- regardless of nationality. I have to admit that when I see players like Gretzky and Messier traded off to the US because the Canadian teams can't afford them, I have been know to say (only half- seriously) that we'd probably be better off if we had our own Canadian hockey league for Canadian players! ;-) RA> I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let RA> te Bures and Selannes of the world play on their own continent. RA> RA> I just don't want themon mine. Again, it doesn't matter to me -- Russian, Finnish, Mexican, Albertan, New Yorker, black, white, korean, martian, plutoneon, ... it doesn't matter. Any of them can put a Leafs' jersey on if they can put the puck in! :-) Stephen Legge SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca ",10 "Re: migraine and exercise JL> From: jlecher@pbs.org JL> > I would not classify a mild headache that was continuous for weeks JL> > as migraine, even if the other typical features were there (e.g., JL> > unilateral, nausea and vomiting, photophobia). Migraines are, by JL> > common agreement, episodic rather than constant. JL> > JL> Well, I'm glad that you aren't my doctor, then, or I'd still be suffering. JL> Remember, I was tested for any other cause, and there was nothing. I'm JL> otherwise very healthy. JL> The nagging pain has all of the qualifications: it's on one side, and JL> frequently included my entire right side: right arm, right leg, right eye, JL> even the right side of my tongue hurt or tingled. Noise hurt, light hurt, JL> thinking hurt. When it got bad, I would lose my ability to read. The differential diagnosis between migraine and non-migranous pain is not *always* important, because some therapies are effective in both (e.g., tricyclic antidepressants such as amitriptyline, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen). Other therapies may be more specific: beta-blockers such as propranolol work better in migraine than tension-type headache. The most important thing, from your perspective, is that you got relief. Also, please understand that a diagnosis other than migraine does not necessarily mean ""psychogenic""; I suspect that organic factors play as large a role in tension-type headache as in migraine. --- . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) ",13 "Re: Help with changing Startup logo In article <1993Apr28.161910.17062@seas.gwu.edu> louray@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Panayiotakis) writes: >In article <735952415.AA01739@f-454.fidonet.org> C..Doelle@p26.f3333.n106.z1.fidonet.org (C. Doelle) writes: >>Hello Brad! >> >>Monday April 26 1993 17:24, Brad Smalling wrote to (crosspost 1) All: >> BS> COPY /B WIN.CNF+VGALOGO.LGO+VGALOGO.RLE WIN.COM *** Unecessary ... >> >> BS> (I grabbed this from _Supercharging Windows_ by Judd Robbins--great book) >> BS> This is also how you can put your own logo into the Windows startup >> might do it, too much trouble :) >>Brad, >.bmp *will* convert to .rle. I Know for a fact that PaintShop >(shareware from cica; /desktop, I think, filename psVVV.zip (I think, >where VVV is the ver. number. If that's not true, let me know and I""ll >This, however, will write your .rle file with a .bmp extension, so you >have to rename it. >your file has to be less than 64 K >( at least that's what the faq says, but Mine wont work for more than >about 30...maybe they mend 32K, I don't know). *** Agreed Mixali... >Your file has to fit VGA size (480 * 860, or whatever standard vga size >is.) If you use a non-vga screen (e.g. Cga, ega, svga, there is also a >way to do it, but I thing instead of vgalogo.lgo you use another file, *** Not entirely true..> >ALSO....your .bmp has to be 16 COLOURS Or less. TRUE *** >Finally, REMEMBER TO SAVE YOUR CURRENT WIN.COM before, and put your >new win.com in the windows directory. Also, don't start windows from a > Unecessary ... >Mickey Path of least resistance (TM) :) : Get WinGIF 1.4 from cica (ftp.cica.indiana.edu pub/pc/win3/(desktop?) ) It will save to native .rle format unlike PSP (an otherwise fine, fine prog) Make a file using anything that has to be less than 30k, as Michael said, and less than 16 colors... Import it to WinGIF as gif, pcx or bmp and save it in you windows/system subdir as vgalogo.rle (NOT .lgo). Exit Win, and run setup in the windows subdir. Reselect your _current_ config. Run Win. Voila' (minor correction: the .rle file has to be <30k. that means ~15k gif ?) Hope it helps... (and please, please someone put this in the group's FAQ) -- Costas Malamas ____________________________________________________________ Georgia Institute of Technology OIT UA -- OIT doesn't pay me enough to share its opinions... Internet: ccastco@prism.gatech.edu ",2 "Token Ring Cards for Macs I am looking for recommendations/experiences of bringing Macintosh CPUs onto Token-Ring Nets. Can someone point me in the right direction for information. Thanks in advance. -Tom ",4 "Wanted: Opinions on MAG 17S and NANAO 560i monitor Hi, I'm looking to buy a 17"" monitor soon, and it seems that I can't decide what monitor I should buy. I have a MAG 17S (this is a .25 dpi version and it using a TRINITON tube) and a NANAO 560i in mind. Does anyone know of any specification or problems these monitor have? Actually, any related opinions at buying a 17"" monitor will be welcomed. Thanks in advance, ong_mang@iastate.edu ",3 "Re: And America's Team is....But Why? cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes: > The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes >out of nowhere to contend. The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples, >not the Cubs. Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with ""no talent"" over 162 games. I would amend your definition to: underdog: a team expected to lose, but which wins thanks to underestimated talent. -- Dave! ",9 "Re: How to speed up games (marginally realistic) In article <9304202040.PN27738@LL.MIT.EDU> ejb@ll.mit.edu ( Ed Baranoski) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.181245.11319@VFL.Paramax.COM> davidm@gvls2.vfl.paramax.com (David Madden) writes: > 2. If a pitcher throws to an occupied base more than X time (X = 3 to 5) > without successfully picking off the runner, the runner advances a base > as if walked. > >This last suggestion will probably increase the number of stolen bases >considerably. Suppose the pitcher uses up (N-1) of his N pick-off >attempts. The runner can probably stretch his lead off the base, >given that there will be extra pressure on the pitcher to get it >right this time. > If it encouraged the runner to stretch his lead, it would probably also result ina greater number of pickoffs. I think it would be a workable rule, but it would probably be best to experiment in another league before trying it in the bigs. Clay D. ",9 "Re: Don Cherry - Coach's Corner summary - April 19, 1993 In article ""James J. Murawski"" writes: > >On 20-Apr-93 in Don Cherry - Coach's Corner.. >user Allan Sullivan@cs.UAlber writes: >>Next, a clip was shown from an earlier episode, in which Don was >>proclaiming Doug Gilmour to be the best player, not only in >>the NHL, but in the world. What about players like Lemieux? >>Don said that Gilmour was the best PLAYER, not ""Designated point getter"". >>Its not like baseball, where you have a ""designatted hitter"" who >>can score runs but can't play defense. Gilmour is a good two way player. > >This clip was shown on local news in Pittsburgh last night (KDKA), complete >with animated sarcasm by the sportscaster. It's the second time Cherry >has been shown on local Pittsburgh news in the last couple of weeks. Both >times he was blasting Lemieux. > His designated point-getter remarks were not only meant for Lemieux, but for Gretzky, Bure, etc. etc. .... and he made those particular remarks last December before Lemieux was diagnosed with Hodgkin's, and as the Leafs started their second half roll, and before Gilmour's great season was being recognized by many people. Gerald ",10 "Re: BATF/FBI Murders Almost Everyone in Waco Today! 4/19 roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes: >In article fontenot@ravl.rice.edu (Dwayne Jacques Fontenot) writes: >>In article roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes: >>>In article <1993Apr19.184303.6205@stortek.com> vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes: >>>> >>> [...] >>>> 5) Point out that even if the fire was set by someone inside of the >>>> building, it came as a direct result of the actions of the FBI/BATF. >>>> And the people inside (including 17 children) deserved a trial, instead >>>> of this. >>> >>>Well they had over 40 days to come out with their hands up on national tv >>>to get the trial they deserved. Instead they chose to set fire to their >>>compund hours after the tanks dropped off the tear gas. >> >>Correction: The FBI says that the Davidians set fire to their buildings. >And I suppose the FBI also prevented them from coming out with their >hands up while national tv cameras watch. Well the attorneys of the Davidians reported on Larry King that the tanks had actually damaged the structure to the extent that effectuating egress from the building was difficult at best. With a rapidly spreading fire and large amounts of smoke and tear gas, finding the right exits, or acceptible holes in the walls were nearly impossible. I find this explanation to be completely plausible. Doesn't mean that it's true, but I don't find it intrinsically less believable than the government stories. >>The FBI also said that the Davidians had a methanphetamine lab in their >>basement and that the Davidians had .50 cal machine guns. >> >>Do you believe everything the FBI says? >Do you disbelieve everything the FBI says? >I balance my gut reaction to question authority together with the >independent facts as I see them on video. I usually adopt the >scenario that is simplest and most plausible. I do not generally >believe in conspiracy theories that involve complicated and unlikely >scenarios. I concur. >The BATF is by no means devoid of fault in the handling of this affair. >But to suggest that they may have intentionally started the fire is >ludicrous. Indeed. According to the lawyers, the Davidian survivors say that lanterns were knocked over during the ""probing"" and that's how the fire started. A tragic accident, if true. >>Do you trust that snivelling little >>piece of sh*t special agent Ricks? He seems to think he is a comedian, and >>the media who laugh at his sick jokes are just as guilty as he, IMHO. >> >>>Up until now the BATF had been making me sick. Today the people inside >>>the compound who set the fire made me sick. Keeping the children inside >>>the compund when they should have been released earlier with the other >>>people weeks ago is absolutely inexcuseable. Not releasing them before >>>deciding to set the place afire is the work of madmen. >>> >>>Two of the nine who escaped the compound said the fire was deliberately set >>>by cult members. >> >>Correction: The FBI says that two of the nine said the fire was deliberately >>set by the sect members. >If the fire were set by accident or by people outside the compound, I would >have expected far more cult members to flee the compound. Or at least come >out shooting. See above. This one is going to be thoroughly investigated. Maybe we'll eventually get some idea of what happened. My view is that, from beginning to end, this operation was a botch and that it is completely possible that nut cases who were otherwise law-abiding citizens were victims of a bureaucratic execution. -- paul hager hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu ""I would give the Devil benefit of the law for my own safety's sake."" --from _A_Man_for_All_Seasons_ by Robert Bolt ",16 "Re: post jono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com (Jon Ogden) writes: > My advice is this: If you know someone that you have the hots for who is > NOT a Christian, befriend them and try to develop just a friendship with > them. At the same time, witness and share the gospel with them, not so > that you can date them, but so that they can be saved. Once they become a > Christian, then it is quite possible to let the relationship progress > beyond friendship. However, if they don't accept Christ, you still have a > good friendship and you haven't wasted a lot of emotional energy and gotten > hurt. While I agree with most of Jon says (I deleted those parts, of course), I have serious reservations about this advice. Maintaining a `just friends' level of relationship is much easier said than done. People usually end up getting hurt. This is especially likely to happen when they start off with feelings of attraction. When people feel attracted those feelings can cloud their judgement. I've had the experience of going quickly from believing that I shouldn't date non-Christians to believing that dating this man would be okay to believing that premarital sex is fine when people really love each other. When the relationship ended my beliefs immediately returned to their original state. This is an especially extreme case because I was young and away from home and fellowship. I don't think it would work exactly this way for most people. However, it's important not to underestimate the power of feelings of attraction. Jayne Kulikauskas/ jayne@mmalt.guild.org ",15 "Re: Xsun not running on SPARCclassic In article <1r3th9INNdtp@tom.rz.uni-passau.de> rank@winf.uni-passau.de (Christian Rank) writes: >I've installed X11R5 with patches for Solaris 2.1 on our SPARCstation LX / >SPARCclassic pool. On the LX, X11R5 runs fine, but on the classics, >after giving the command startx, Xsun prints the following messages: > WARNING: cg3_mmap: can't map dummy space! > Mapping cg3c: No such device or address >and exits. > >Does anybody know how to fix this problem? I'm just guessing here, but I'd guess that X11R5 expects the CG3 to have 1152x900 resolution, and the version of the CG3 in the SPARCclassic is 1024x768. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: I do not represent SunSoft, Inc., Sun Microsystems, Inc., etc., etc. Brian Herzog, SunSoft herzog@Eng.Sun.COM ...!sun!eng!herzog ",5 "Re: Repeat violent criminals--is reform often In article 23303@husc3.harvard.edu, kim39@scws8.harvard.edu (John Kim) writes: > > > From the Boston Globe, Thursday April 22 1993 > > p. 44 > > Walpole man, 32, guilty in rape > > Kenne, N.H. -- A Walpole man > charged with kidnapping a > mother of two from her home, then > raping and beating her, has pleaded > guilty. Roger Santaw Jr. also plead- > ed guilty to an attempted escape > from Cheshire County jail last win- > ter. Santaw, 32 is scheduled to be > sentenced next week. The rape last > fall came six months after Santaw > was released from prision, where > he spent 15 years for a rape he commit- > ted when he was 16. (AP) > > > > [end of article] > > Any reactions? Did he do enough time? What should his penalty > be? > > BTW, Walpole is a town in Massachusetts. Of course, New > hampshire is close by. > J. Case Kim > kim39@husc.harvard.edu > Some women might say, ""Death"". How about ""life, with no hope of parole""? David N. Bixler Auburn University All standard disclaimers apply ",16 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. In article <1993Apr21.162800.168967@locus.com> todd@phad.la.locus.com (Todd Johnson) writes: As for advertising -- sure, why not? A NASA friend and I spent one drunken night figuring out just exactly how much gold mylar we'd need to put the golden arches of a certain American fast food organization on the face of the Moon. Fortunately, we sobered up in the morning. Hmmm. It actually isn't all that much, is it? Like about 2 million km^2 (if you think that sounds like a lot, it's only a few tens of m^2 per burger that said organization sold last year). You'd be best off with a reflective substance that could be sprayed thinly by an unmanned craft in lunar orbit (or, rather, a large set of such craft). If you can get a reasonable albedo it would be visible even at new moon (since the moon itself is quite dark), and _bright_ at full moon. You might have to abandon the colour, though. Buy a cheap launch system, design reusable moon -> lunar orbit unmanned spraying craft, build 50 said craft, establish a lunar base to extract TiO2 (say: for colour you'd be better off with a sulphur compound, I suppose) and some sort of propellant, and Bob's your uncle. I'll do it for, say, 20 billion dollars (plus changes of identity for me and all my loved ones). Delivery date 2010. Can we get the fast-food chain bidding against the fizzy-drink vendors? Who else might be interested? Would they buy it, given that it's a _lot_ more expensive, and not much more impressive, than putting a large set of several-km inflatable billboards in LEO (or in GEO, visible 24 hours from your key growth market). I'll do _that_ for only $5bn (and the changes of identity). Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu ",14 "Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1? In article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com> troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes: > >Let me explain why I feel the ""bogey"" counter feature is a gimmick. >Radar waves bounce off objects especially metal. That is how radar >speed measurement works. A high frequency microwave (X band approx 10 >GHz and K is approx 24 GHz) is sent out and reflected back to the >antenna off of an automobile or other objects. If an object is moving >a Doppler shift (about 34 Hz per MPH on X Band) occurs, is measured >and converted to miles per hour. These waves bounce all over the >place and they can reflect many times and go in many directions. > >From what I understand the Valentine-1 can only tell if these >microwaves are coming from the front, rear or both. There are only >two antennas. If they are coming from both this in interpreted as a >""side bogey"". Bogey counts are determined as sources by their >relative strength to one another even if they are reflections of the >same source. > I'm certainly no engineer and really have no scientific basis on which to make this argument, but don't you answer your own question? Is the reflected signal ""shifted"" at all from the act of being reflected? If so, wouldn't it then be easy for the detector to discriminate between reflections and direct sources? >Here is the problem. Since the microwaves reflect, how does the unit >tell if it is a ""source"" or a ""reflection""? Take a Valentine-1 and >drive to the local grocery store that uses an X-Band radar door >opener. You can tell by the small black box above the door pointed >down at about a 45 degree angle and your detector going off when it >gets near. The Valentine-1 will count 7 or 8 bogeys from all >directions front, rear and sides (it doesn't say which side). The >count changes as cars drive by and reflections change. Is there 7 or >8 sources? Not at the store I go to. As I drive around with a >standard detector I can only find one source and that is the door >opener for the front door. > >Troy Wecker >troy@sequent.com >Sequent Computer Systems >Beaverton, OR -- David W. Hwang, M.D. [david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us] ",7 "Old keyboards never die Hello, I'am almost ashame to ask this question. It really looks like a FAQ, but couldn't find the answer. Anyway... The original IBM-PC/XT 83 or 84 key keyboard is, in my opinion, still the best keyboard around. Function keys on the right place (eh.. left place), firm click, etc. Is there any chance to connect one of these to a modern 386 AT clone? I do understand that the new AT keyboard has more functionality. I.e. the typematic repeat rate is programmable etc. It seams to me that the pins & electrical specs. of the old and the new keyboard are, however, the same. Maybe the communication protocol is different? Please answer by e-mail. Also if you can tell me that is absolutely impossible. In that case, i will bring the keyboard the museum of obsolete technology. Thanks, Duco -- Duco Fijma tel. X31-53-893718 University of Twente fax. X31-53-893811 P.O. Box 217 internet: fijma@cs.utwente.nl 7500 AE Enschede The Netherlands | No ugly pictures in this sig! | ",3 "GIF TO TARGA Krzysztof Muchorowski was asking about GIF-to-TGA conversion so that he could use DTA 1.5 to convert the TGA files to FLI animation files. Krzysztof, update your copy of DTA to a more recent release (the current is 1.8g). Later versions of DTA can read GIF files. --dkm ",1 "Re: Final Solution for Gaza ? In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: >In article <2BDCCB7D.2715@news.service.uci.edu> tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes: > >>Tell *them* to stay home? :-) Sorry, terrible attempt at homour there. >> >>Alternative? Hell, I don't know. But...its perfectly possible to have >>objections to a particular policy while feeling that there is no >>""alternative choice"". > >Sealing off the Gaza Strip has the interesting side-effect of >demonstrating the non-viability of Gaza as an independent state. >Where are all of these people going to go to find work if they are >separated from Israel? If they complain about having to show id cards >on the way to work, how will they feel about showing passports on the >way to work? > Throughout the years of the Israel/Arab-Palestinian conflict, the internal Palestinian popultation has found itself essentially relegated to the lower tiers of the economy. Given the major kinds of positions required by the Israeli and the ""Palestinian"" economy, there are essentially two different ones existing side by side aren't holding down many of the "" skilled"" positions. So, when Gaza has to operate on its own, there are few residents trained to fill the need for middle and upper management. -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 """Choleric"" and The Great NT/NF Semantic War. [Cross-posted from alt.psychology.personality since it talks about physician's personalities. Apologies to sci.med readers not familiar with the Myers-Briggs ""NT/NF"" personality terms. But, in a word or two, the NTs (iNtuitive->Thinkers) are approximately your philosophy/science/tech pragmatic types, and the NFs (iNtuitive-Feelers) are your humanities/social-""science""/theology idealistic types. They hate each others' guts (:-)) but tend to inter-marry. The letter ""J"" is a reference to conscienciousness/decisiveness.] Jon Noring emits typical NF-type stuff > [Physicians] are just responding in their natural way: > Hyper-Choleric Syndrome (HCS). .. > ..it is fascinating that a disproportionate number of > physicians will type out as NT .. > One driving characteristic of an NT, especially an NTJ, is their obvious > choleric behavior (driver, type A, etc.) - the extreme emotional need to > control, to lead, and/or to be the best or the most competent. .. Please get it right, Jon. (This NTJ has a strong desire to correct semantic mistakes, because the NFs of this world are fouling the once-pristine NT intellectual nest with their verbal poop.) The dominant correlation is NT <-> Phlegmatic (and _not_ NT <-> Choleric). One of the semantic roots of ""choleric"" is the idea of ""hot"" (emotional) and one of the semantic roots of ""phlegmatic"" is ""cold"" (unemotional). Here is a thumbnail sketch (taken from Hans Eysenck, refering to Wundt) relating the Ancient Greek quadratic typology with modern terms: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Emotional ^ (""Melancholic"") | (""Choleric"") | Thoughtful Suspicious | Quickly-aroused Hotheaded Unhappy Worried | Egocentric Histrionic Anxious | Exhibitonist Serious | Active Unchangeable < ------------------------------------------------> Changeable Calm | Playful Reasonable | Carefree Steadfast Persistent | Hopeful Sociable Highly-principled Controlled | Controlled Easy-going | (""Phlegmatic"") | (""Sanguine"") | v Non-emotional ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I suspect that your characterisation of NTs as ""choleric"" is what you psych-types call a ""projection"" of your own NF-ness onto us. > Maybe we need more NF doctor's. :^) Perhaps in serious pediatics and ""my little boy's got a runny nose, doctor"" general practice, but, please God, not in neurology, opthamology, urology, etc. etc. And NF-psychiatry should seperate from NT-(i.e. real) psychiatry and be given a new name .. something like ""channeling"" :-). -- tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, Toronto, Canada ",13 "Re: Arafat/Jordan Support for Iraq(Re: FLASH-SALAMEH not ARAB! In article , SKUKRETI@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Meeesterr Beeeg) writes: [...] > Obviously, the West would not want to take on a revolution which >held popular support [...] I didn't know that they had internet access on Mars! Perhaps due to the long time it takes to transmit information there you haven't heard of Mussadiq, Allende, Castro et al, Yeah definitely ""the West would not want to take on a revolution which held popular support"" At least not on your planet. ",17 "Silicon Storage Inc. I would appreciate very much the address and/or phone # of this company. They supposely make analog EEPROMS. Thanks in advance. Doug. ",12 "Re: Frequent nosebleeds In article <1993Apr17.195202.28921@freenet.carleton.ca> ab961@Freenet.carleton.ca (Robert Allison) writes: >Does anyone know of any method to reduce this frequency? My younger brothers >each tried a skin transplant (thigh to nose lining), but their nosebleeds >soon returned. I've seen a reference to an herb called Rutin that is >supposed to help, and I'd like to hear of experiences with it, or other >techniques. Rutin is a bioflavonoid, compounds found (among other places) in the rinds of citrus fruits. These have been popular, especially in Europe, to treat ""capillary fragility"", and seemingly in even more extreme cases-- a few months ago, a friend was visiting from Italy, and he said that he'd had hemorrhoids, but his pharmacist friend sold him some pills. Incredulously, I asked to look at them, and sure enough these contained rutin as the active ingredient. I probably destroyed the placebo effect from my skeptical sputtering. I have no idea how he's doing hemorrhoid-wise these days. The studies which attempted to look at the effect of these compounds in human disease and nutrition were never very well controlled, so the reports of positive results with them is mostly anecdotal. This stuff is pretty much non-toxic, and probably inexpensive, so there's little risk of trying it, but I wouldn't expect much of a result. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer ",13 "What's the difference between ~30-pin and 72-pin SIMMS? Hi, Can anyone tell me the difference between ~30-pin and 72-pin Simms? I wish to get detailed information about the origin of these two different types of Simms, preferably a magazine review aricle. By the way, if there is a FAQ for this group which covers the Simms information, please also direct me to it. Any help/information would be very much appreciated. Sincerely, Yu-Jen Wu Dept. of EE, Univ. of Maryland yjwu@eng.umd.eu ",3 "Re: Trivia question In article hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl) writes: > >And Tuttle is no longer with the Blues, but I don't know where he is. >Possibly in the IHL, but you'd best ask a Blues fan. > Steve Tuttle was traded from the Blues to TB in the before the start of this season along with Pat Jablonski, for future considerations. He played for Milwaukee of the IHL, then got traded from TB to QUE along with Michel Mongeau. He's currently playing with Halifax of the AHL. %*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* * __ ______________ ____________________________________ % % \ \_)____________/ A L L E Z L E S B L U E S ! ! ! * * \ __________/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ % % \ ________/ * * \ _______/ Joe Ashkar % % \ \ Contact for the Blues * * \ \ SAINT LOUIS jca2@cec1.wustl.edu % % (___) BLUES * *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% ",10 "[lds] Gordon's question on the Nicene Creed Gordon Banks quoted and added... gb> In article gb> psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes: gb> gb> > gb> > Christians have professed for more than 1660 years the Nicene gb> >Creed, a statement of beliefs drawn from the truths of Scripture gb> >that was officially accepted by a council of church bishops gb> >and leaders at Nicea in 325 A.D. Christians still recite gb> >this creed regularly in public worship. gb> > gb> gb> So prior to 325 AD there were no Christians? Or all of them really gb> believed the Nicean creed even before it was formulated? Do you gb> really believe such an absurdity? I'm afraid you do. No. I really don't. Honest. The Nicene Creed, as I mentioned above, is a brief statement of beliefs that are derived from Scripture. That this certain list did not exist earlier does not indicate that the beliefs summarized in in did not exist before the formula was derived. ============================= Robert Weiss psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu ",19 "News briefs from KH # 1026 From: Kayhan Havai # 1026 -------------------------- o Dr. Namaki, deputy minister of health stated that infant mortality (under one year old) in Iran went down from 120 per thousand before the revolution to 33 per thousand at the end of 1371 (last month). o Dr Namaki also stated that before the revolution only 254f children received vaccinations to protect them from various deseases but this figure reached 93at the end of 1371. o Dr. Malekzadeh, the minister of health mentioned that the population growth rate in Iran at the end of 1371 went below 2.7 o During the visit of Mahathir Mohammad, the prime minister of Malaysia, to Iran, agreements for cooperation in the areas of industry, trade, education and tourism were signed. According to one agreement, Iran will be in charge of building Malaysia's natural gas network. ---------------------------------------------------------- - Farzin Mokhtarian -- ",17 "STS-56 Press Kit Does anyone know ifthe STS-56 email press kit was ever released? -Tony Ryan, ""Astronomy & Space"", new International magazine, available from: Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland. 6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail). ACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address). (WORLD'S LARGEST ASTRO. SOC. per capita - unless you know better? 0.033%) Tel: 0891-88-1950 (UK/N.Ireland) 1550-111-442 (Eire). Cost up to 48p per min ",14 "Re: Christian meta-ethics -*---- In article mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes: > Well, the whole *point* of making these the ""base"" commandments is that > they *aren't* reducible to rules. A set of rules is a moral code or a > law code or an algorithm for acting. Such things can be very helpful > to individuals or societies -- but not if they are used *instead* of a > personal involvement in and responsibility for one's actions. ... The two commandments *are* rules; they are merely rules that are so vague that they are practically devoid of meaning. Michael Siemon acknowledges this every time he writes that the resolution of an argument over them turns on secular and cultural assumptions that are independent of these rules. > ... The Great Commandment is, more than anything else, a call > to act *as if you were God and accepting ultimate responsibility* > in your every action. ... The commandment to love your neighbor as yourself can be viewed, in part, as reminding man that he is not God and cannot act as if he has ""ultimate responsibility."" Indeed, many traditions present an interpretation where believers are supposed to interpret loving one's neighbor as following various other rules, and relying on their god to make things come out right, precisely because it would be wrong for man to assume such ""ultimate responsibility."" Once again, we are confronted with good sounding goo that means whatever the reader wants it to mean. > ... ""Conservatives"" may twist this ""act as if you were God"" to > mean ""lay down rules for other people and be as nasty to them > as possible if they don't keep YOUR rules."" They are so > insistent (and obvious) about this that they have convinced a > lot of people (who rightly reject the whole concept!) that such > idiocy IS how God acts. ... And who is to say that this interpretation is ""twisted""? There are many passages in the Bible that in their most straightforward reading show the Christian god behaving in just this way. Michael cannot refer to ""base"" claims or base commandments to show that such readings are ""twisted,"" because this divergence in understanding occurs even in trying to interpret the ""base"" claims and commandments. In addressing conservative Christians, Michael will necessarily draw upon secular and cultural notions that these conservative Christians will reject. > But why should anyone BE looking for an ethical system, since our > society is eager to hand us one or more no matter what we do? It > may be that we need a principle for the CRITIQUE of ethical systems > -- in which case I will profer the _agapate allelou_ once again. But these base commandments are too vague to serve as ""a principle for the CRITIQUE of ethical systems."" The meaning of these base commandments for any believer derives from the secular and cultural notions that the believer brings to them, from how the believer mixes their demands with straightforward readings of other Biblical passages, from a particular sectarian tradition, or from some combination of these things. These commandments lack sufficient substance in themself to serve as a basis for criticizing ethical systems. What meaning they have comes from the ethical system the believer brings to these commandments. > And different bodies of Christians have, from the beginning, urged > *different* ""ethical systems"" (or in some cases, none). As a result, > it is bizarre to identify any one of these systems, however popular > (or infamous) with Christianity. Christianity DOES NOT HAVE A TORAH. > It does not have a QU'RAN. Specifically Christian scripture has very > little, if anything, in the way of ""commandments"" -- so little that > the ""Christians"" who desperately *want* commandments go ""mining"" for > them with almost no support ... The one, single, thing in the gospels > which Jesus specifically ""gives"" as ""a commandment"" to us is ""love > one another."" Jesus explicitly states that this summarizes Jewish law, which would seem to bring in all of it if we properly understand what it means to love God and love our neighbors. There are *many* parables and teachings the gospels attribute to Jesus that are straightforwardly read as ethical commandments. The Pauline epistles are similarly full. If it is not clear that these all come together in a sensible understanding of ethical behavior, the problem is *not* a lack of raw material. -*---- > I am a ""radical"" Christian *only* in that I take the gospel seriously. No, Michael, the conservative Christians also take the gospel seriously. What differentiates you is the way you interpret the gospel. > ... Why don't I and the (myriads of) other Christians like me > tell you something about Christianity? ... In a sense, the wide variety of interpretations does tell us something about Christianity. It tells us that the New Testament authors left a sufficiently vague hodge-podge that it can serve as the source text for many, vastly different beliefs about the nature of the Christian god and about what men should and shouldn't do. The irony here is that there is *nothing* in Christianity per se that Michael can use to support the cause of lesbians and gays. *Every* Christian principle he turns to this cause is effective only through the extra-Christian principles through which Michael interprets his religion, and the homophobes apply the *same* Christian principles, with equal justification, to their cause. In short, it is the extra-Christian principles that make Michael's Christianity beneficial, and I suspect they would be as beneficial, perhaps moreso, without being filtered by Christian interpretation. Michael paints a picture of ""standard American atheism"" as the rejection of the evil in many conservative Christian interpretations of the Bible. But I think it is even more damaging to Christianity to note that the New Testament presents such a vague hodge-podge of notions about the nature of God and the nature of the good (except, of course, when it is ordered by an interpretation that relies on extraneous principles). Here, I think we should apply a Christian parable, where a cold drink can have its value and a hot drink can have its value, but the lukewarm we should spit out. Russell ",19 "Packet Radio on the PC I'm looking for any and all information regarding packet radio implementation on the PC. Software, hardware, whatever. Please e-mail any info to koberg@spot.colorado.edu. Thanks ",12 "Re: Orion drive in vacuum -- how? In article Henry Spencer, henry@zoo.toronto.edu writes: >The National Air & Space Museum has both the prototype and the film. >When I was there, some years ago, they had the prototype on display and >the film continuously repeating. Great! I'll visit the National Air and Space Museum at the end of the month with my wife, who was also working at General Atomic at the time. Once again netnews has enriched my life. Leigh ",14 "What is a squid? (was Re: Riceburner Respect) In article hartzler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Jerry Hartzler - CATS) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.192558.3314@icomsim.com> mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael Manning) writes: > >>duck. Squids don't wave, or return waves ever, even to each > ^^^^^^ > excuse me for being an ignoramus, but what are these. Squids are everybody but me and you. Chris Behanna is especially a squid. -- * Dana H. Myers KK6JQ | Views expressed here are * * (310) 337-5136 | mine and do not necessarily * * dana@locus.com DoD #466 | reflect those of my employer * * This Extra supports the abolition of the 13 and 20 WPM tests * ",8 "Re: Waco survivors 1715 19 April In article , hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes... > >In article , apm@hpopdlau.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes: >|>Path: dscomsa!dxcern!mcsun!uknet!pipex!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!apm >|>From: apm@hpopdlau.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) > >|>In article <1993Apr19.170353.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu> chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes: >|> I note with insufficient emotion that amongst the five survivors of the >|> Waco debacle, there were two Brits and an Aussie. The Anglo-Saxon persona >|> really doesn't lend itself to martyrdom for a spurious messiah. >|> >|>I don't see how you draw that conclusion. Around 20 of the 80 inside the >|>buildings were British (one quarter). Two out of the eight (latest count I >|>heard) survivors were British (one quarter). Anyhow, British doesn't equate >|>to Anglo-Saxon. >|> >|>What exactly are you trying to say? And why were there no fire-engines within >|>a mile of the compound? > >Because the Gun loonies were firing on vehicles with 50mm amunition that >has a range of 3000 meters. What crap, Phil. 50mm? Wrong. To give you a clue as to how big 50mm is, the F-16 fighter aircraft have 20mm gattling guns used to shoot down other aircraft. A 50mm gun would be somewhere in the `cannon' realm. They might have had .50 calibre but definitely not 50mm. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Paul R. Busta Busta@kozmic.enet.dec.com Salem,N.H. 603-894-3962 ""Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable..."" ",18 "Re: NEWS YOU WILL MISS, Apr 15 In article <1qvgcb$jud@genesis.MCS.COM> arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: >In article <1qun1aINNik5@aludra.usc.edu> sgoldste@aludra.usc.edu (Fogbound Child) writes: >>arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: >>> Yigal et al, sue ADL >>Why do you title this ""News you will miss"" ? >>There have been at least three front-page stories on it in the L.A. Times. >This may come as a surprise to you but there are a few americans who do not >read the LA Times. ...because the Israelists have been stealing the copies of the LA Times as soon as they arrive in NY... -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",18 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <1993Apr23.194834.24072@synapse.bms.com>, hambidge@bms.com writes... >mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu (Mitchell S Todd) writes: >> If there was a large propane tank, and it was breached, don't >> you think that there would be an identifiable explosion? >From what I saw of the videotape, there was an explosion which looked >more like one due to propane rather than (official version) >ammunition. I would agree that a propane explosion is as likely as an ammunition/explosives blast. My question was directed to the person who claimed that the propane tank was likely ruptured by the tank before, or just as, the fire started. If that were true, shouldn't the explosion have happened very soon after the fires started? >> The only evidence that exists right now (at least what we know >> about) is various claims and counter claims. I'm waiting until >> the hard evidence is released. What about you? >If only we could be certain that the hard evidence will be released. The FBI has made such a fuss over the videotapes and other evidence that they have to release something sooner or later. It's going to happen, and we'll get to see for ourselves. Often law enforcement agencies will withold evidence from public view until the investigation is over. _____ _____ \\\\\\/ ___/___________________ Mitchell S Todd \\\\/ / _____/__________________________ ________________ \\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/ \_____ \__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/ \__________\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/ \_ / /__________/ \/____/\\\\\\ \\\\\\ ------ ",16 "Easy to translate JPEG code... Does anyone out there have any JPEG decompression code in pretty much any language that I can read and understand? I have trouble understanding the JPEG Group's code that I got from an FTP site. If any one can send me some good code, I will appreciate it a lot! Thanks! Stuart Denman stusoft@u.washington.edu ",1 "Re: ""Accepting Jesus in your heart..."" I have been told that I seem to be very smug in my post. I appoligize if anyone felt this way. I did not at all desire to come across in that way. I was trying to express that I didn't understand his logic and that I wished him the best in his life. In Christ's Love, Bryan Whitsell ",15 "Re: The Inimitable Rushdie In article arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >In article <115256@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: >>Judaism, for one. Maddi has confirmed this for one. And again I >>reiterate that one can easily leave the religion at any time, >>simply by making a public declaration. If one is too lazy to do >>that then the religion cannot be held responsible. >There are many ""Islamic"" countries where publically renouncing Islam can be >quite dangerous. These countries might not, according to you, necessarily be >practicing ""true"" Islam, but the danger still remains; one cannot blame >failure to publically renounce Islam on ""laziness"" as opposed to a desire to >stay alive and well. Of course, if you're planning to pull a Rushdie then declaring one's leaving the religion is little to be concerned about compared to one's other plans. In Rushdie's case, the one under discussion, one can. It is tragic that in _some_ ""Islamic"" countries this is so. There are, however, Islamic countries (whose constitutions contains statements that Islamic law is to be incorporated), e.g. Kuwait, where one can freely make such statements without fear. >Not to mention that it has already been pointed out that Rushdie has said in >his books that he's not a Muslim, and there have surely been enough readers of >his books to provide the appropriate number of witnesses. This story has become tiresome. The conditions are clear. If you care to make your point clear then make a chronology and show that he had made public statements about leaving Islam prior to his writing of _TSV_. If he did make such statements then he should have made _that_ clear rather than trying to rejoin Islam or go on talking about his personal feelings. Gregg ",0 "Ugliest Stance (was Re: ugliest swing) In article tac@world.std.com (Tackey Chan) writes: > > Ugliest swing..I am not sure. I think the ugliset stance is >Jolio Franco of the Ranger. I wonder how that bat comes around in time >to hit the ball. It looks bad but hey.it get the job done. > > ------TAC Ugliest stance of all time has to go to Oscar Gamble. The man would practically kneel in front of home plate in order to have a small strike zone! (He's just lucky that strike zone size isn't determined by how big your afro is:) -I'm outta here like Vladimir! -Alan ",9 "Re: Commercial mining activities on the moon In article <1r46j3INN14j@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: >In article , steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson) writes: | |>Very cost effective if you use the right accounting method :-) | >Sherzer Methodology!!!!!! Let it never be said that an opportunity was missed to put someone down. ",14 "Can the IIsi Do-It-Yourself Acceleration be done on a IIci? I was wondering if what many of you did to accelerate your IIsi's from 20 MHz to 25 Mhz (and beyond) can be done to a IIci (ie. from 25 MHz to 32-33 Mhz)? ----------------------------------------------------- Stephen Tseng st14@cornell.edu ",4 "Need C-algorithm, which decide whether a 3D-point is inside a space, defined by 6 planes Hey, I am looking for C-algorithm, which decide,whether a 3D-Point is inside a space which was defined by 8 x 3D-points. With a space defined by 8 x 3D-points, I mean a space defined by 6 closed 3D meshes defined by 8 points. Like this : _____ / /| /____/ | | | | | | / |____|/ But in this simple example, the sides are parallel, but my problem, the sides can be non parallel and the opposite sides must not have the same size etc. Please mail me your informations ! Thanks for your great efforts Oliver -- NAME : O.Kretzschmar Inst.IKE / University Stuttgart PHONE: +49 711 685 2130 Pfaffenwaldring 31 FAX : +49 711 685 2010 7000 Stuttgart 80 EMAIL: wnkretz@ikesg1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de ",1 "300ZX or SC300??? Hi everyone, I'm getting a car in the near future. I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300. Which might be a better choice? Thanks for your opnion, Danny -- =============================================================================== = ""Hey! You programmers out there! | Danny Phornprapha = = Please consider this: | ip02@lehigh.edu = = | = = Bugs are another endangered earth | LUCC Student Konsultant = = Species needing your protection. | Work: (215) 758-4141 = ",7 "Re: Societally acceptable behavior I guess I'm delving into a religious language area. What exactly is morality or morals? I never thought of eating meat to be moral or immoral, but I think it could be. How do we differentiate between not doing something because it is a personal choice or preference and not doing something because we see it as immoral? Do we fall to what the basis of these morals are? Also, consensus positions fall to a might makes right. Or, as you brought out, if whatever is right is what is societally mandated then whoever is in control at the time makes what is right MC MAC -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Nobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton ",0 "Function key to text string translation I want to press a function key and have a text string appear in an XmText widget. When I put *XmText.Translations: #augment \n\ F1: insert-string(HELLO) in my resource file, the translation doesn't happen. If I put *XmText.Translations: F1: insert-string(HELLO) in the file, I get the text string HELLO when F1 is pressed, but no other keys work, which makes sense since the default translation mode is ""replace"". Do I have a syntax problem here, or something deeper? ..Bill Massena (wam3090@yak.boeing.com) ",5 "Re: Bosox go down in smoke II (Seattle 7-0) ... dietz@parody.Data-IO.COM (Kent Dietz) writes: >Oh, yea, and Chris Bosio pitched a NO-HITTER. One over the minimum, two Have there ever been any other no-hitters in Mariner history? -- John Franjione Department of Chemical Engineering University of Colorado, Boulder franjion@spot.colorado.edu ",9 "Re: Revelations hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes: > >Now, as to the suggestion that all prophecy tends to be somewhat cyclical, > >can you elaborate? I'm not exactly sure what you mean. How does the > >suggestion relate to Isaiah's prophecy of the birth of Christ by a virgin? > >I don't see any cycles in that prophecy. > > Maybe cyclical is not the best word. ... > > Another example would be the Scripture quoted of Judas, ""and his bishoprick > let another take."" Another example is something that Isaiah said of His > disciples which is also applied to Christ in Hebrews, ""the children thou > hast given me."" > > How does the preterist view account for this phenomenon. Ah, double-fulfillment. First of all I would say that I'm not sure all the prophecies had double-fulfillment, e.g., the Isaiah 7:14 prophecy. I would say that just because this happens on some occasions does not mean it will occur always, especially with regard to NT prophecies. The apostles who quoted the OT and applied those passages to Jesus were acting as divine messengers and giving the inerrant Word of God to the Church. No one has that authority today. No one has the apostolic authority to say that such-and-such a prophecy has double-fulfillment. If the imagry of Revelation fits with events of the 1st century, it is folly for us to try and make it apply to events 20 centuries later. -- Tom Albrecht ",15 "Bios passwords I hope that there's somebody out there that can help us. Some of our students change the AMI bios passwords on a few of our computers and set it for always. What we'd like to know is if there is a way to bypass or remove the password. We have tried switching bios, but to no avail. The battery is soldered to the bord, an all three machines is still under guarentee so if that would have help we can't remove the batteries. Thanks Isak Isak Venter ITBIJV@PUKNET.PUK.AC.ZA :-) Money can't buy happiness, but surely pays for the illusion. ",3 "World Series Stats Does anybody else think that WS stats should become part of a player's career stats? Why not? ",9 "Re: Final Solution for Gaza ? Dear folks, I am still awaiting for some sensible answer and comment. It is a fact that the inhabitants of Gaza are not entitled to a normal civlized life. They habe been kept under occupation by Israel since 1967 without civil and political rights. It is a fact that Gazans live in their own country, Palestine. Gaza is not a foriegn country. Nor is TelAviv, Jaffa, Askalon, BeerSheba foreign country for Gazans. All these places are occupied as far as Palestinians are concerned and as far as common sense has it. It is a fact that Zionists deny Gazans equal rights as Israeli citizens and the right to determine by themsevles their government. When Zionists will begin to consider Gazans as human beings who deserve the same rights as themselves, there will be hope for peace. Not before. Somebody mentioned that Gaza is 'foreign country' and therefore Israel is entitled to close its borders to Gaza. In this case, Gaza should be entitled to reciprocate, and deny Israeli civilians and military personnel to enter the area. As the relation is not symmetrical, but that of a master and slave, the label 'foreign country' is inaccurate and misleading. To close off 700,000 people in the Strip, deny them means of subsistence and means of defending themselves, is a collective punishment and a crime. It is neither justifiable nor legal. It just reflects the abyss to which Israeli society has degraded. I would like to ask any of those who heap foul langauge on me to explain why Israel denies Gazans who were born and brought up in Jaffa to return and live there ? Would they be allowed to, if they converted to Judaism ? Is their right to live in their former town depdendent upon their religion or ethnic origin ? Please give an honest answer. Elias ",17 "FTP tool for Windows Is there any one know: What is the FTP tool for Windows and where to get the tool ? Thanks for any help !! H.J. 1993,4,19 ",2 "Medical Examiner Says No Evidence for Bullet Wounds EITHER WAY Apparently needing to clarify his comments from Thursday, Dr. Nizam Plawaby (spelling?), the Medical Examiner for Tarrant County, Texas, who has authority in the Waco deaths, stated that since no autopsies had been performed, there is no evidence for bullet wounds, or evidence against bullet wounds. Janet Reno also stated that she had never been told of bullet wounds by anyone in the Justice Department. -- | The Koresh cult standoff is over ... may his victims Recquiescat in Pace | | | | (the above is a net.moment of silence) | Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract ",16 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article , arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >In article <930423.103637.3O4.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew writes: >>> > There's no objective physics; Einstein and Bohr have told us that. >>> Speaking as one who knows relativity and quantum mechanics, I say: >>> Bullshit. >>Speaking as someone who also knows relativity and quantum mechanics, I say: >>Go ahead, punk, make my day. My degree can beat up your degree. > >Simple. Take out some physics books, and start looking for statements which >say that there is no objective physics. I doubt you will find any. You might >find statements that there is no objective length, or no objective location, >but no objective _physics_? (Consider, for instance, that speed-of-light-in- >vacuum is invariant. This sounds an awful lot like an objective >speed-of-light-in-vacuum.) >-- Or, you can try not confuse a construct with the constructor. If you take a look at Quantum Mechanics, many objective observations can be made as well. However, Physics is not objective. Bohr said the randomness of atomic motion is inherent in the motion itself. Einstein said that nature is deterministic; it is our method of observation that inserts the randomness. They were talking about the exact same results. Depends on how you look at it, I guess. -- jim halat halat@bear.com bear-stearns --whatever doesn't kill you will only serve to annoy you-- nyc i speak only for myself ",0 "Need latest model developer notes ** Hi, Does anyone know where I can get the developer notes for the new Mac models (like IIvx, LC III, Centris)? Thank's for any information. Please reply by email. .---. .---. iwan k gunawan / \ __ / \ / / \(oo)/ \ \ internet: ////// ' \/ ` \\\\\\ gunawan@envmsa.eas.asu.edu //// / // : : \\ \ \\\\ gunawan@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu // / / /` '\ \ \ \\ gunawan@enuxva.eas.asu.edu // //..\\ \\ ====UU====UU==== arizona state university | '//||\\` | ______________________________________________|______________|_____________ ",4 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr14.122647.16364@tms390.micro.ti.com> david@tms390.micro.ti.com (David Thomas) writes: >>In article <13APR199308003715@delphi.gsfc.nasa.gov>, packer@delphi.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes: >>>Is there such a thing as MSG (monosodium glutamate) sensitivity? >>>I saw in the NY Times Sunday that scientists have testified before >>>an FDA advisory panel that complaints about MSG sensitivity are >>>superstition. Anybody here have experience to the contrary? >>> >>>I'm old enough to remember that the issue has come up at least >>>a couple of times since the 1960s. Then it was called the >>>""Chinese restaurant syndrome"" because Chinese cuisine has >>>always used it. > >So far, I've seen about a dozen posts of anecdotal evidence, but >no facts. I suspect there is a strong psychological effect at >work here. Does anyone have results from a scientific study >using double-blind trials? Check out #27903, just some 20 posts before your own. Maybe you missed it amidst the flurry of responses? Yet again, the use of this newsgroup is hampered by people not restricting their posts to matters they have substantial knowledge of. For cites on MSG, look up almost anything by John W. Olney, a toxicologist who has studied the effects of MSG on the brain and on development. It is undisputed in the literature that MSG is an excitotoxic food additive, and that its major constituent, glutamate is essentially the premierie neurotransmitter in the mammalian brain (humans included). Too much in the diet, and the system gets thrown off. Glutamate and aspartate, also an excitotoxin are necessary in small amounts, and are freely available in many foods, but the amounts added by industry are far above the amounts that would normally be encountered in a ny single food. By eating lots of junk food, packaged soups, and diet soft drinks, it is possible to jack your blood levels so high, that anyone with a sensitivity to these compounds will suffer numerous *real* physi9logical effects. Read Olney's review paper in Prog. Brain Res, 1988, and check *his* sources. They are impecable. There is no dispute. --Dianne Murray wcsbeau@ccs.carleton.ca ",13 "Re: A Good place for Back Surgery? : gary.schuetter (garyws@cbnewsg.cb.att.com) wrote: : : : : Hello, : : Just one quick question: : : My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors : : have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in : : Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in : : the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery, : : kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors : : in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be : : appreciated a whole lot!... : There is one hospital that is here in New York City that is famous for its : orthopedists, namely the Hospital for Special Surgery. They are located on : the upper east side of manhattan. If you want their address and phone let : me know, i'll get them, i dont know them off hand. for those who are interested the hospitals i was referring to are: The Hospital for Special Surgery 535 East 70th Street New York, NY 10021 212-606-1555 (Physician Referral Service & info) The Hospital for Joint Diseases 301 East 17th Street New York, NY 10003 212-598-7600 -- /\ _ /\ | Felix The Cat | 0 0 |-------\== The Wonderful, Wonderful Cat! \==@==/\ ____\ | =============================== Meow!--- \_-_/ || || hoss@panix.com ",13 "O's lose openr at home to Rangers Sutcliffe gives up 3 HRs (Gonzales 1, Palmer 2) and Mills gives up 1 HR (Gonzales) to lose 7-4. Sutcliffe Texas 7 10 0 Lefferts 1-0 Baltimore 4 9 0 Sutcliffe 0-1 -- Jody Hagins -- hagins@avlin8.us.dg.com Data General Corporation, Linthicum, MD ",9 "Re: Enough Freeman Bashing! Was: no-Free man propaganda machine: Freemanwith blood greetings from Israel pgf5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Peter Garfiel Freeman) writes: Peter, I believe this is your most succinct post to date. Since you have nothing to say, you say nothing! It's brilliant. Did you think of this all by yourself? -marc -- ______________________________________________________________________________ Some people are so narrow minded they can see through a crack in a door with both eyes. My opinions should be yours. My employer has no opinions. ______________________________________________________________________________ ",17 "Mazda GLC for Sale. Want to sell a 1980 MAZDA GLC for $300 or b.o. Excellent working condition. Just passed inspection. Has a sun roof. No marks on body. Contact soon kohli@ecs.umass.edu or (413_549-4738. kohli ",6 "Re: Point within a polygon In article <1993Apr14.102007.20664@uk03.bull.co.uk>, scrowe@hemel.bull.co.uk (Simon Crowe) writes: |> I am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a |> polygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing |> information on the subject ? |> |> Regards |> |> Simon Basically, there are two algorithms determining whether a point is inside, outside or on the polygon. The first one is Ray (or half line) method. In this method, you can draw any ray, if the number of the intersection point of the ray and the polygon is even, then it is outside. If the number is odd, then it is inside. Of cause, you have to deal with the special cases which may make you headache. The second method is PI algorithm. Draw the lines between the point and all the vertices on the polygon. Calculate and sum the angles of the successive lines. If the result is 2*PI, then it is inside. If PI, then it is on the polygon. Otherwise it is outside. My experience tells the second method is relible. Hope this helps. Yeh USC ",1 "Re: Question about Virgin Mary ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis) writes: [ Much deletion. He is trying to explain the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary.] > 'Original sin' is the only reason (fallen) humanity > dies. Adam and Eve would not have died had they > not fallen. If this is true than why in the Genesis story is God concerned that Adam and Eve might also eat from the Tree of Life and live forever and be like gods? Eating of the tree of life would not take away the effects of eating of the Tree of Knowledge. Is there any reason to assume that they had already eaten of the Tree of Life and so had already attained to eternal life? If so, what basis is there for saying that this was taken away from them? To me the wages of sin are a spiritual death, not necessarily a physical death. I can attest to the truth of this interpretation from my own experience. I suspect that many others could attest to this as well. Peace Will ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | William Taber | Will_Taber@dg.com | Any opinions expressed | | Data General Corp. | will@futon.webo.dg.com | are mine alone and may | | Westboro, Mass. 01580 | | change without notice. | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------- | When all your dreams are laid to rest, you can get what's second best, | | But it's hard to get enough. David Wilcox | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",15 "Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes: >The deutero-canonical books were added much later in the church's >history. They do not have the same spiritual quality as the >rest of Scripture. I do not believe the church that added these >books was guided by the Spirit in so doing. And that is where >this sort of discussion ultimately ends. >David H. Wagner >a confessional Lutheran ""Now thank we all our God Whoah whoah whoah WHOAH!!! What?!? That last paragraph just about killed me. The Deuterocanonicals have ALWAYS been accepted as inspired scripture by the Catholic Church, which has existed much longer than any Protestant Church out there. It was Martin Luther who began hacking up the bible and deciding to REMOVE certain books--not the fact that the Catholic Church decided to add some much later--that is the reason for the difference between ""Catholic"" and ""Protestant"" bibles. Sorry for the tone--but that comment really irked me. - Mike Walker mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Univ. of Illinois) ",15 "HELP WANTED: Faults on IDE drives I have a 105MB IDE drive and am having a few problems! I get 'Data error on drive C' messages when reading some files. The problem is also steadily getting worse. I have run some diagnostic software (PCTools V7.1) and it says that the drive is OK - but it does have to retry some sectors and it briefly flashes up an error message (which is too quick to read). Does anybody know of any cheap or free software which could mark these sectors as bad (DOS doesn't) or preferably perform a low level format. I have heard that the latter is possible on an IDE. Technical answers would be appreciated. It would be nice to be able to use the disk again!!! I am running MS-DOS 5 on an AT clone. ",3 "Alt.Atheism FAQ: Introduction to Atheism Archive-name: atheism/introduction Alt-atheism-archive-name: introduction Last-modified: 5 April 1993 Version: 1.2 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An Introduction to Atheism by mathew This article attempts to provide a general introduction to atheism. Whilst I have tried to be as neutral as possible regarding contentious issues, you should always remember that this document represents only one viewpoint. I would encourage you to read widely and draw your own conclusions; some relevant books are listed in a companion article. To provide a sense of cohesion and progression, I have presented this article as an imaginary conversation between an atheist and a theist. All the questions asked by the imaginary theist are questions which have been cropped up repeatedly on alt.atheism since the newsgroup was created. Some other frequently asked questions are answered in a companion article. Please note that this article is arguably slanted towards answering questions posed from a Christian viewpoint. This is because the FAQ files reflect questions which have actually been asked, and it is predominantly Christians who proselytize on alt.atheism. So when I talk of religion, I am talking primarily about religions such as Christianity, Judaism and Islam, which involve some sort of superhuman divine being. Much of the discussion will apply to other religions, but some of it may not. ""What is atheism?"" Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of God. Some atheists go further, and believe that God does not exist. The former is often referred to as the ""weak atheist"" position, and the latter as ""strong atheism"". It is important to note the difference between these two positions. ""Weak atheism"" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. ""Strong atheism"" is a positive belief that God does not exist. Please do not fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are ""strong atheists"". Some atheists believe in the non-existence of all Gods; others limit their atheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making flat-out denials. ""But isn't disbelieving in God the same thing as believing he doesn't exist?"" Definitely not. Disbelief in a proposition means that one does not believe it to be true. Not believing that something is true is not equivalent to believing that it is false; one may simply have no idea whether it is true or not. Which brings us to agnosticism. ""What is agnosticism then?"" The term 'agnosticism' was coined by Professor Huxley at a meeting of the Metaphysical Society in 1876. He defined an agnostic as someone who disclaimed (""strong"") atheism and believed that the ultimate origin of things must be some cause unknown and unknowable. Thus an agnostic is someone who believes that we do not and cannot know for sure whether God exists. Words are slippery things, and language is inexact. Beware of assuming that you can work out someone's philosophical point of view simply from the fact that she calls herself an atheist or an agnostic. For example, many people use agnosticism to mean ""weak atheism"", and use the word ""atheism"" only when referring to ""strong atheism"". Beware also that because the word ""atheist"" has so many shades of meaning, it is very difficult to generalize about atheists. About all you can say for sure is that atheists don't believe in God. For example, it certainly isn't the case that all atheists believe that science is the best way to find out about the universe. ""So what is the philosophical justification or basis for atheism?"" There are many philosophical justifications for atheism. To find out why a particular person chooses to be an atheist, it's best to ask her. Many atheists feel that the idea of God as presented by the major religions is essentially self-contradictory, and that it is logically impossible that such a God could exist. Others are atheists through scepticism, because they see no evidence that God exists. ""But isn't it impossible to prove the non-existence of something?"" There are many counter-examples to such a statement. For example, it is quite simple to prove that there does not exist a prime number larger than all other prime numbers. Of course, this deals with well-defined objects obeying well-defined rules. Whether Gods or universes are similarly well-defined is a matter for debate. However, assuming for the moment that the existence of a God is not provably impossible, there are still subtle reasons for assuming the non-existence of God. If we assume that something does not exist, it is always possible to show that this assumption is invalid by finding a single counter-example. If on the other hand we assume that something does exist, and if the thing in question is not provably impossible, showing that the assumption is invalid may require an exhaustive search of all possible places where such a thing might be found, to show that it isn't there. Such an exhaustive search is often impractical or impossible. There is no such problem with largest primes, because we can prove that they don't exist. Therefore it is generally accepted that we must assume things do not exist unless we have evidence that they do. Even theists follow this rule most of the time; they don't believe in unicorns, even though they can't conclusively prove that no unicorns exist anywhere. To assume that God exists is to make an assumption which probably cannot be tested. We cannot make an exhaustive search of everywhere God might be to prove that he doesn't exist anywhere. So the sceptical atheist assumes by default that God does not exist, since that is an assumption we can test. Those who profess strong atheism usually do not claim that no sort of God exists; instead, they generally restrict their claims so as to cover varieties of God described by followers of various religions. So whilst it may be impossible to prove conclusively that no God exists, it may be possible to prove that (say) a God as described by a particular religious book does not exist. It may even be possible to prove that no God described by any present-day religion exists. In practice, believing that no God described by any religion exists is very close to believing that no God exists. However, it is sufficiently different that counter-arguments based on the impossibility of disproving every kind of God are not really applicable. ""But what if God is essentially non-detectable?"" If God interacts with our universe in any way, the effects of his interaction must be measurable. Hence his interaction with our universe must be detectable. If God is essentially non-detectable, it must therefore be the case that he does not interact with our universe in any way. Many atheists would argue that if God does not interact with our universe at all, it is of no importance whether he exists or not. If the Bible is to be believed, God was easily detectable by the Israelites. Surely he should still be detectable today? Note that I am not demanding that God interact in a scientifically verifiable, physical way. It must surely be possible to perceive some effect caused by his presence, though; otherwise, how can I distinguish him from all the other things that don't exist? ""OK, you may think there's a philosophical justification for atheism, but isn't it still a religious belief?"" One of the most common pastimes in philosophical discussion is ""the redefinition game"". The cynical view of this game is as follows: Person A begins by making a contentious statement. When person B points out that it can't be true, person A gradually re-defines the words he used in the statement until he arrives at something person B is prepared to accept. He then records the statement, along with the fact that person B has agreed to it, and continues. Eventually A uses the statement as an ""agreed fact"", but uses his original definitions of all the words in it rather than the obscure redefinitions originally needed to get B to agree to it. Rather than be seen to be apparently inconsistent, B will tend to play along. The point of this digression is that the answer to the question ""Isn't atheism a religious belief?"" depends crucially upon what is meant by ""religious"". ""Religion"" is generally characterized by belief in a superhuman controlling power -- especially in some sort of God -- and by faith and worship. [ It's worth pointing out in passing that some varieties of Buddhism are not ""religion"" according to such a definition. ] Atheism is certainly not a belief in any sort of superhuman power, nor is it categorized by worship in any meaningful sense. Widening the definition of ""religious"" to encompass atheism tends to result in many other aspects of human behaviour suddenly becoming classed as ""religious"" as well -- such as science, politics, and watching TV. ""OK, so it's not a religion. But surely belief in atheism (or science) is still just an act of faith, like religion is?"" Firstly, it's not entirely clear that sceptical atheism is something one actually believes in. Secondly, it is necessary to adopt a number of core beliefs or assumptions to make some sort of sense out of the sensory data we experience. Most atheists try to adopt as few core beliefs as possible; and even those are subject to questioning if experience throws them into doubt. Science has a number of core assumptions. For example, it is generally assumed that the laws of physics are the same for all observers. These are the sort of core assumptions atheists make. If such basic ideas are called ""acts of faith"", then almost everything we know must be said to be based on acts of faith, and the term loses its meaning. Faith is more often used to refer to complete, certain belief in something. According to such a definition, atheism and science are certainly not acts of faith. Of course, individual atheists or scientists can be as dogmatic as religious followers when claiming that something is ""certain"". This is not a general tendency, however; there are many atheists who would be reluctant to state with certainty that the universe exists. Faith is also used to refer to belief without supporting evidence or proof. Sceptical atheism certainly doesn't fit that definition, as sceptical atheism has no beliefs. Strong atheism is closer, but still doesn't really match, as even the most dogmatic atheist will tend to refer to experimental data (or the lack of it) when asserting that God does not exist. ""If atheism is not religious, surely it's anti-religious?"" It is an unfortunate human tendency to label everyone as either ""for"" or ""against"", ""friend"" or ""enemy"". The truth is not so clear-cut. Atheism is the position that runs logically counter to theism; in that sense, it can be said to be ""anti-religion"". However, when religious believers speak of atheists being ""anti-religious"" they usually mean that the atheists have some sort of antipathy or hatred towards theists. This categorization of atheists as hostile towards religion is quite unfair. Atheist attitudes towards theists in fact cover a broad spectrum. Most atheists take a ""live and let live"" attitude. Unless questioned, they will not usually mention their atheism, except perhaps to close friends. Of course, this may be in part because atheism is not ""socially acceptable"" in many countries. A few atheists are quite anti-religious, and may even try to ""convert"" others when possible. Historically, such anti-religious atheists have made little impact on society outside the Eastern Bloc countries. (To digress slightly: the Soviet Union was originally dedicated to separation of church and state, just like the USA. Soviet citizens were legally free to worship as they wished. The institution of ""state atheism"" came about when Stalin took control of the Soviet Union and tried to destroy the churches in order to gain complete power over the population.) Some atheists are quite vocal about their beliefs, but only where they see religion encroaching on matters which are not its business -- for example, the government of the USA. Such individuals are usually concerned that church and state should remain separate. ""But if you don't allow religion to have a say in the running of the state, surely that's the same as state atheism?"" The principle of the separation of church and state is that the state shall not legislate concerning matters of religious belief. In particular, it means not only that the state cannot promote one religion at the expense of another, but also that it cannot promote any belief which is religious in nature. Religions can still have a say in discussion of purely secular matters. For example, religious believers have historically been responsible for encouraging many political reforms. Even today, many organizations campaigning for an increase in spending on foreign aid are founded as religious campaigns. So long as they campaign concerning secular matters, and so long as they do not discriminate on religious grounds, most atheists are quite happy to see them have their say. ""What about prayer in schools? If there's no God, why do you care if people pray?"" Because people who do pray are voters and lawmakers, and tend to do things that those who don't pray can't just ignore. Also, Christian prayer in schools is intimidating to non-Christians, even if they are told that they need not join in. The diversity of religious and non-religious belief means that it is impossible to formulate a meaningful prayer that will be acceptable to all those present at any public event. Also, non-prayers tend to have friends and family who pray. It is reasonable to care about friends and family wasting their time, even without other motives. ""You mentioned Christians who campaign for increased foreign aid. What about atheists? Why aren't there any atheist charities or hospitals? Don't atheists object to the religious charities?"" There are many charities without religious purpose that atheists can contribute to. Some atheists contribute to religious charities as well, for the sake of the practical good they do. Some atheists even do voluntary work for charities founded on a theistic basis. Most atheists seem to feel that atheism isn't worth shouting about in connection with charity. To them, atheism is just a simple, obvious everyday matter, and so is charity. Many feel that it's somewhat cheap, not to say self-righteous, to use simple charity as an excuse to plug a particular set of religious beliefs. To ""weak"" atheists, building a hospital to say ""I do not believe in God"" is a rather strange idea; it's rather like holding a party to say ""Today is not my birthday"". Why the fuss? Atheism is rarely evangelical. ""You said atheism isn't anti-religious. But is it perhaps a backlash against one's upbringing, a way of rebelling?"" Perhaps it is, for some. But many people have parents who do not attempt to force any religious (or atheist) ideas upon them, and many of those people choose to call themselves atheists. It's also doubtless the case that some religious people chose religion as a backlash against an atheist upbringing, as a way of being different. On the other hand, many people choose religion as a way of conforming to the expectations of others. On the whole, we can't conclude much about whether atheism or religion are backlash or conformism; although in general, people have a tendency to go along with a group rather than act or think independently. ""How do atheists differ from religious people?"" They don't believe in God. That's all there is to it. Atheists may listen to heavy metal -- backwards, even -- or they may prefer a Verdi Requiem, even if they know the words. They may wear Hawaiian shirts, they may dress all in black, they may even wear orange robes. (Many Buddhists lack a belief in any sort of God.) Some atheists even carry a copy of the Bible around -- for arguing against, of course! Whoever you are, the chances are you have met several atheists without realising it. Atheists are usually unexceptional in behaviour and appearance. ""Unexceptional? But aren't atheists less moral than religious people?"" That depends. If you define morality as obedience to God, then of course atheists are less moral as they don't obey any God. But usually when one talks of morality, one talks of what is acceptable (""right"") and unacceptable (""wrong"") behaviour within society. Humans are social animals, and to be maximally successful they must co-operate with each other. This is a good enough reason to discourage most atheists from ""anti-social"" or ""immoral"" behaviour, purely for the purposes of self-preservation. Many atheists behave in a ""moral"" or ""compassionate"" way simply because they feel a natural tendency to empathize with other humans. So why do they care what happens to others? They don't know, they simply are that way. Naturally, there are some people who behave ""immorally"" and try to use atheism to justify their actions. However, there are equally many people who behave ""immorally"" and then try to use religious beliefs to justify their actions. For example: ""Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners... But for that very reason, I was shown mercy so that in me... Jesus Christ might display His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the king eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever."" The above quote is from a statement made to the court on February 17th 1992 by Jeffrey Dahmer, the notorious cannibal serial killer of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It seems that for every atheist mass-murderer, there is a religious mass-murderer. But what of more trivial morality? A survey conducted by the Roper Organization found that behavior deteriorated after ""born again"" experiences. While only 4% of respondents said they had driven intoxicated before being ""born again,"" 12% had done so after conversion. Similarly, 5% had used illegal drugs before conversion, 9% after. Two percent admitted to engaging in illicit sex before salvation; 5% after. [""Freethought Today"", September 1991, p. 12.] So it seems that at best, religion does not have a monopoly on moral behaviour. ""Is there such a thing as atheist morality?"" If you mean ""Is there such a thing as morality for atheists?"", then the answer is yes, as explained above. Many atheists have ideas about morality which are at least as strong as those held by religious people. If you mean ""Does atheism have a characteristic moral code?"", then the answer is no. Atheism by itself does not imply anything much about how a person will behave. Most atheists follow many of the same ""moral rules"" as theists, but for different reasons. Atheists view morality as something created by humans, according to the way humans feel the world 'ought' to work, rather than seeing it as a set of rules decreed by a supernatural being. ""Then aren't atheists just theists who are denying God?"" A study by the Freedom From Religion Foundation found that over 90% of the atheists who responded became atheists because religion did not work for them. They had found that religious beliefs were fundamentally incompatible with what they observed around them. Atheists are not unbelievers through ignorance or denial; they are unbelievers through choice. The vast majority of them have spent time studying one or more religions, sometimes in very great depth. They have made a careful and considered decision to reject religious beliefs. This decision may, of course, be an inevitable consequence of that individual's personality. For a naturally sceptical person, the choice of atheism is often the only one that makes sense, and hence the only choice that person can honestly make. ""But don't atheists want to believe in God?"" Atheists live their lives as though there is nobody watching over them. Many of them have no desire to be watched over, no matter how good-natured the ""Big Brother"" figure might be. Some atheists would like to be able to believe in God -- but so what? Should one believe things merely because one wants them to be true? The risks of such an approach should be obvious. Atheists often decide that wanting to believe something is not enough; there must be evidence for the belief. ""But of course atheists see no evidence for the existence of God -- they are unwilling in their souls to see!"" Many, if not most atheists were previously religious. As has been explained above, the vast majority have seriously considered the possibility that God exists. Many atheists have spent time in prayer trying to reach God. Of course, it is true that some atheists lack an open mind; but assuming that all atheists are biased and insincere is offensive and closed-minded. Comments such as ""Of course God is there, you just aren't looking properly"" are likely to be viewed as patronizing. Certainly, if you wish to engage in philosophical debate with atheists it is vital that you give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are being sincere if they say that they have searched for God. If you are not willing to believe that they are basically telling the truth, debate is futile. ""Isn't the whole of life completely pointless to an atheist?"" Many atheists live a purposeful life. They decide what they think gives meaning to life, and they pursue those goals. They try to make their lives count, not by wishing for eternal life, but by having an influence on other people who will live on. For example, an atheist may dedicate his life to political reform, in the hope of leaving his mark on history. It is a natural human tendency to look for ""meaning"" or ""purpose"" in random events. However, it is by no means obvious that ""life"" is the sort of thing that has a ""meaning"". To put it another way, not everything which looks like a question is actually a sensible thing to ask. Some atheists believe that asking ""What is the meaning of life?"" is as silly as asking ""What is the meaning of a cup of coffee?"". They believe that life has no purpose or meaning, it just is. ""So how do atheists find comfort in time of danger?"" There are many ways of obtaining comfort; from family, friends, or even pets. Or on a less spiritual level, from food or drink or TV. That may sound rather an empty and vulnerable way to face danger, but so what? Should individuals believe in things because they are comforting, or should they face reality no matter how harsh it might be? In the end, it's a decision for the individual concerned. Most atheists are unable to believe something they would not otherwise believe merely because it makes them feel comfortable. They put truth before comfort, and consider that if searching for truth sometimes makes them feel unhappy, that's just hard luck. ""Don't atheists worry that they might suddenly be shown to be wrong?"" The short answer is ""No, do you?"" Many atheists have been atheists for years. They have encountered many arguments and much supposed evidence for the existence of God, but they have found all of it to be invalid or inconclusive. Thousands of years of religious belief haven't resulted in any good proof of the existence of God. Atheists therefore tend to feel that they are unlikely to be proved wrong in the immediate future, and they stop worrying about it. ""So why should theists question their beliefs? Don't the same arguments apply?"" No, because the beliefs being questioned are not similar. Weak atheism is the sceptical ""default position"" to take; it asserts nothing. Strong atheism is a negative belief. Theism is a very strong positive belief. Atheists sometimes also argue that theists should question their beliefs because of the very real harm they can cause -- not just to the believers, but to everyone else. ""What sort of harm?"" Religion represents a huge financial and work burden on mankind. It's not just a matter of religious believers wasting their money on church buildings; think of all the time and effort spent building churches, praying, and so on. Imagine how that effort could be better spent. Many theists believe in miracle healing. There have been plenty of instances of ill people being ""healed"" by a priest, ceasing to take the medicines prescribed to them by doctors, and dying as a result. Some theists have died because they have refused blood transfusions on religious grounds. It is arguable that the Catholic Church's opposition to birth control -- and condoms in particular -- is increasing the problem of overpopulation in many third-world countries and contributing to the spread of AIDS world-wide. Religious believers have been known to murder their children rather than allow their children to become atheists or marry someone of a different religion. ""Those weren't REAL believers. They just claimed to be believers as some sort of excuse."" What makes a real believer? There are so many One True Religions it's hard to tell. Look at Christianity: there are many competing groups, all convinced that they are the only true Christians. Sometimes they even fight and kill each other. How is an atheist supposed to decide who's a REAL Christian and who isn't, when even the major Christian churches like the Catholic Church and the Church of England can't decide amongst themselves? In the end, most atheists take a pragmatic view, and decide that anyone who calls himself a Christian, and uses Christian belief or dogma to justify his actions, should be considered a Christian. Maybe some of those Christians are just perverting Christian teaching for their own ends -- but surely if the Bible can be so readily used to support un-Christian acts it can't be much of a moral code? If the Bible is the word of God, why couldn't he have made it less easy to misinterpret? And how do you know that your beliefs aren't a perversion of what your God intended? If there is no single unambiguous interpretation of the Bible, then why should an atheist take one interpretation over another just on your say-so? Sorry, but if someone claims that he believes in Jesus and that he murdered others because Jesus and the Bible told him to do so, we must call him a Christian. ""Obviously those extreme sorts of beliefs should be questioned. But since nobody has ever proved that God does not exist, it must be very unlikely that more basic religious beliefs, shared by all faiths, are nonsense."" That does not hold, because as was pointed out at the start of this dialogue, positive assertions concerning the existence of entities are inherently much harder to disprove than negative ones. Nobody has ever proved that unicorns don't exist, but that doesn't make it unlikely that they are myths. It is therefore much more valid to hold a negative assertion by default than it is to hold a positive assertion by default. Of course, ""weak"" atheists would argue that asserting nothing is better still. ""Well, if atheism's so great, why are there so many theists?"" Unfortunately, the popularity of a belief has little to do with how ""correct"" it is, or whether it ""works""; consider how many people believe in astrology, graphology, and other pseudo-sciences. Many atheists feel that it is simply a human weakness to want to believe in gods. Certainly in many primitive human societies, religion allows the people to deal with phenomena that they do not adequately understand. Of course, there's more to religion than that. In the industrialized world, we find people believing in religious explanations of phenomena even when there are perfectly adequate natural explanations. Religion may have started as a means of attempting to explain the world, but nowadays it serves other purposes as well. ""But so many cultures have developed religions. Surely that must say something?"" Not really. Most religions are only superficially similar; for example, it's worth remembering that religions such as Buddhism and Taoism lack any sort of concept of God in the Christian sense. Of course, most religions are quick to denounce competing religions, so it's rather odd to use one religion to try and justify another. ""What about all the famous scientists and philosophers who have concluded that God exists?"" For every scientist or philosopher who believes in a god, there is one who does not. Besides, as has already been pointed out, the truth of a belief is not determined by how many people believe it. Also, it is important to realize that atheists do not view famous scientists or philosophers in the same way that theists view their religious leaders. A famous scientist is only human; she may be an expert in some fields, but when she talks about other matters her words carry no special weight. Many respected scientists have made themselves look foolish by speaking on subjects which lie outside their fields of expertise. ""So are you really saying that widespread belief in religion indicates nothing?"" Not entirely. It certainly indicates that the religion in question has properties which have helped it so spread so far. The theory of memetics talks of ""memes"" -- sets of ideas which can propagate themselves between human minds, by analogy with genes. Some atheists view religions as sets of particularly successful parasitic memes, which spread by encouraging their hosts to convert others. Some memes avoid destruction by discouraging believers from questioning doctrine, or by using peer pressure to keep one-time believers from admitting that they were mistaken. Some religious memes even encourage their hosts to destroy hosts controlled by other memes. Of course, in the memetic view there is no particular virtue associated with successful propagation of a meme. Religion is not a good thing because of the number of people who believe it, any more than a disease is a good thing because of the number of people who have caught it. ""Even if religion is not entirely true, at least it puts across important messages. What are the fundamental messages of atheism?"" There are many important ideas atheists promote. The following are just a few of them; don't be surprised to see ideas which are also present in some religions. There is more to moral behaviour than mindlessly following rules. Be especially sceptical of positive claims. If you want your life to have some sort of meaning, it's up to you to find it. Search for what is true, even if it makes you uncomfortable. Make the most of your life, as it's probably the only one you'll have. It's no good relying on some external power to change you; you must change yourself. Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good. If you must assume something, assume something it's easy to test. Don't believe things just because you want them to be true. and finally (and most importantly): All beliefs should be open to question. Thanks for taking the time to read this article. mathew -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.2 iQCVAgUBK8AjRXzXN+VrOblFAQFSbwP+MHePY4g7ge8Mo5wpsivX+kHYYxMErFAO 7ltVtMVTu66Nz6sBbPw9QkbjArbY/S2sZ9NF5htdii0R6SsEyPl0R6/9bV9okE/q nihqnzXE8pGvLt7tlez4EoeHZjXLEFrdEyPVayT54yQqGb4HARbOEHDcrTe2atmP q0Z4hSSPpAU= =q2V5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- For information about PGP 2.2, send mail to pgpinfo@mantis.co.uk. ÿ ",0 "What we can learn from the Waco wackos There are actually a few important things we can glean from this mess: 1) When they start getting desperate for an answer to the question: ""What's it all about. Mr. Natural?"", pinkboys will buy darn near *anything*, which means: 2) There's still plenty of $$$$ to be made in the False Jesus business by enterprising SubGenii. Just remember that: 3) Once you've separated the pinks from their green, don't blow it all on automatic weapons from Mexico. Put it in a Swiss bank account. Smile a lot. Have your flunkies hand out flowers in airports. The Con will just shrug you off as long as: 4) You never, never, NEVER start to believe your own bulldada! If ""David Koresh"" hand't started swallowing his own ""apocalypso now"" crap, he'd be working crossword puzzles in the Bahamas today instead of contributing to the mulch layer in Waco. This is because: 5) When you start shooting at cops, they're likely to shoot back. And most of 'em are better shots than you are. In short: - P.T. Barnum was right and - Stupidity is self-correcting Thus endeth the lesson. ************************************************************ * The_Doge of South St. Louis * * Dobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm) * * ""One Step Beyond"" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm * * 88.1 FM St. Louis Community Radio * * ""You'll pay to know what you *really* think!"" * * -- J.R. ""Bob"" Dobbs"" * ************************************************************ ",19 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <1993Apr21.113723.10103@synapse.bms.com> hambidge@bms.com writes: ]In article , irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: ]>In article <1r1j3n$4t@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: ]>>In article <1r19tp$5em@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes: ]>> ]>>> >napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it. ]>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ]>>> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day ]>>> in Texas. ]>> ]>>Do YOU eat all your food cold? ]> ]>Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves? Very popular. ]>Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially. ] ]Ever hear about cutting off the electricity? That was done. ]How effective is an electric stove then? Didn't the Branch Davidans have an emergency generator? Oh well, I don't think Brent thought of that anyway. -- /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ |Patrick Chester (aka: claypigeon) wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu| |The Earth is our cradle, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever... | |People's organizations rarely stay that way... or even begin as such. | |I only speak for myself. If I *did* speak for UT, would anyone listen?| \----------------------------------------------------------------------/ ",16 "Re: Please Refresh On Internet Access To CompuServe In article syshtg@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Tom Gillman) writes: >cheong@solomon.technet.sg (SCSTECH admin) writes: >>sometime ago there are some discussions on gaining CompuServe access thru >>the Internet. But I seem to misplace those articles. Can someone please >>refresh me where (which site) I can telnet to to gain access To send a message to a CompuServe user via Internet E-Mail enter the mail mode and address your receiver as follows: 723123.313@compuserve.com The number is the receiver's CompuServe I.D. number. If the users number contains a comma or anything other than a period, change it to a period. . ",2 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes: : God allows people to choose who and what they want to worship. : Worship of money is one of the greatest religions in this country. At least I can prove that money exists. Can you say the same for your god? : |> Maybe David Koresh really was Jesus Christ (sure sounds like a neat : |> opening epic for a new major religion to me). -- : : NOT! He was an egomaniac who had the attention of the entire world : for a brief moment in time. I see. And what was that guy two thousand years ago who thought he was god? Sounds like an egomanic to me. How do you know that Koresh wasn't who he claimed? : Rather than live with the shame of being taken captive by the FBI, : Koresh chose to kill himself and his followers. Sick and . . . sad. Jesus allowed himself to be killed. Many of his followers have killed and died for _thier_ beliefs. Sorry, I don't see the difference. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! Where do your SOCKS go Rosemount Inc. |when you lose them in th' |WASHER? grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | ",18 "Re: CGA for windows 3.1 sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) writes: >In article 6af@uniwa.uwa.edu.au, ngolding@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Neil Golding) writes: >>I`m looking for some assistance in locating information on how to run >>win 3.1 on a CGA monitor. >The CGA driver for Windows 3.0 works fine with Win3.1. Oh no! Oh no! They've taken over comp.windows.misc and now THEY'RE COMING FOR US! --berry -- Berry Kercheval :: kerch@parc.xerox.com ",5 "Re: A loathesome subject In article roy@panix.com (Roy Radow) writes: >Anyone with any degree of sensitivity or awareness has to be >concerned about the horrendous amount of ""child abuse"" that >exists in this country. [...] > >The critical factor here is whether the sexual activity is ""forced"" [...] > >When a child is ""forced"" there is often ""damage"", on the other hand, >""consensual"" relationships are often found to be ""positive experiences"" >for all concerned. [...] > >Roy Radow roy@panix.com ...rutgers!cmcl2!panix!roy >North American Man/Boy Love Association -For a packet containing a sample Why all the quote marks, Roy? I can see that they might be appropriate where there is a legitimate concern that the words are being distorted by context, or that they have been appropriated Newspeak-style, but, reading your comments above, one might be excused if they assumed that you were claiming that ""child abuse"", ""forced"" sexual activity, and ""damage"" caused by this is non-existant or greatly overblown. ""Positive experiences"", indeed! -Paul Elliott (Member in good standing of the Optilink Mafia) -- -------- Paul Elliott - DSC Optilink - Petaluma, CA USA ---------- {uunet,pyramid,tekbspa}!optilink!elliott -or- elliott@optilink.com ""I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure."" ",18 "Re: Manual Shift Bigots In article Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes: >In article <1qn2lo$c9s@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes: >The big disadvantage of automatics is the ~10% HP they consume that never >gets to the wheels. In this respect they are at a disadvantage to a manual. only when the torque converter is not locked up. there are autos out there with converter lock up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. >Dont forget that now that new 6 speed manual trannys are available the drive >train is more optimally geared to get the most out of the engine. rare.. so are 5 speed autos.. but very real. >Bottom line is both manuals and automatics have vastly improved. i think that automatics have advanced far more than manuals. especially in shift intelligence. i say that a smart automatic is better than the majority of drivers in terms of being in the right gear at the right time, which to me is more important than torque converter losses. >I prefer the stick for fun and the auto for traffic. who says you can't have your cake and eat it too? a well designed shifter will easily facilitate manual, clutchless shifts. i am referring to the much copied mercedes jagged gate. the only department where you lose out is in the number of ratios available, and of course the converter losses.. if ayrton senna can drive a racecar with fully automatic transmission, it can't be half bad.. :-) eliot ",7 "Re: vitamin A and hearing loss In article <1993Apr30.194806.10652@banana.fedex.com>, claude@banana.fedex.com (claude bowie) writes: > i heard a news report indicating research showing improved > hearing in people taking vitamin A. the research showed that new > growth replaced damaged ""hairlike"" nerves. has anyone heard about > this? > Claude, I've not heard or read anything that would suggest that vitamin A( retinol) could reverse hearing loss due to nerve damage(usually caused by high sound levels, but also occassionally due to severe infection). The types of cells that vitamin A regulates are the general epithelial cells and these cell types are not the ones that function in the ear hearing process. The hair cell nerve-like epithelial cells in the ear may respond to vitamin A during cellular differentiation(embryogenesis) but I don't know if they are still capable of responding in adults. If they are capable of responding with new hair growth, this would be a very major breakthrough in hearing loss. With all of the medical interest in vitamin A, it would not be too surprising if a clinical study was done using vitamin A to reverse hearing loss. But with only a news announcement to go on(and this type of communication is notoriously bad), I can't comment on your question anymore than I already have. If one study has been done, more will need to follow to firm up a link between vitamin A and hearing loss if there really is one. Marty B. ",13 "Printer for Sale For Sale: 24 Pin Printer - ALPS Allegra 24 Asking Price: $150 shipped prepaid (C.O.D. orders pay C.O.D. shipping). Features: Straight paper path (won't jam). Paper saving tear-off capability (no need to waste a sheet to get a current printout). Programmable preferences (you don't even need a computer) Letter Quality 360dpi output Epson LQ2500 emulation built-in Card slot for additional memory / font upgrades Printer ribbons easily found (there are three or four sources for ALPs ribbons in every Computer Shopper). Fast 180 CPS output This printer has not even been used in the last two years (three years old) because I have a laser printer at work and use that instead. Originally $399. I'll even throw in two ribbons (may need simple reinkings tho). Adisak Pochanayon 2525 University Avenue Apartment J Madison, WI 53705 (608) 238-2463 ---------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------------- Jeez!!! It never fails, get in the tub and there's a rub at the lamp! -- The Genie from Aladdin. pochanay@cae.wisc.edu eddie (Adisak) Pochanayon Check out all of SilverFox SoftWare's Releases.... your Amiga entertainment. ---------------------------------- CUT HERE ---------------------------------- ",6 "Need help with WordPerfect for Windows... I have two questions: 1) I have been having troubles with my Wordperfect for Windows. When I try to select and change fonts, etc. some of the text disappears. I tried to center two lines once, and the second line disappeared. I can not find the error, and I do not know how to correct it. 2) Is this the right newsgroup? Where should I go? E-mail prefered... _____ Who else is still waiting for ""Naked Gun Part (Pi) | | "" ''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/ '/''/'Nathan'Narloch''/''/''/'""Alumn122@whscdp.whs.edu""/''/''/''/' /''/'(Enforcer'Burp)'/''/''/''or'/'""NARLOCHN@KIRK.MSOE.EDU""'/''/'' ''/''/Milw,/WI/53207/''/'""Join'the'Official'Psycho/Team...""/''/''/ '/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/' ",2 "U.K.: see Mir in evening skies! Astronomy & Space magazine's UK telephone newsline carries the times to see the Russian Space Station Mir which will be visible every EVENING (some time between 9 o'clock and midnight) from April 27 to May 7. It's about as bright as Jupiter at its best. There are two cosmonuats on board. For the time to watch, tel. 0891-88-19-50 (48p/min peak 36p/min all other times, but prediction is at start of the weekly message so it only costs a few pence). E-mail reports of sightings would be appreciated: give lat/long and UT (a few seconds accuracy if possible) when it passes ABOVE or BELOW any bright star (say brighter than mag. 3), planet or Moon. With Moon in evening sky also, note that from somewhere in U.K. Mir will pass in front of the Moon each night! Please alert local clubs to the telephone newsline, and general public as Mir can cause quite a stir! -Tony Ryan, ""Astronomy & Space"", new International magazine, available from: Astronomy Ireland, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland. 6 issues (one year sub.): UK 10.00 pounds, US$20 surface (add US$8 airmail). ACCESS/VISA/MASTERCARD accepted (give number, expiration date, name&address). (WORLD'S LARGEST ASTRO. SOC. per capita - unless you know better? 0.033%) Tel: 0891-88-1950 (UK/N.Ireland) 1550-111-442 (Eire). Cost up to 48p per min ",14 "Re: Blood Glucose test strips In article <1993Apr12.151035.22555@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes: > >In article <1993Apr11.192644.29219@clpd.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes: >> >> Human glucose: 70 - 110 mg./dL. (fasting) [2] > >Are these numbers for whole blood, or plasma? Serum, actually, but plasma numbers are the same. Whole blood numbers for humans tend to be somewhat lower (roughly 5 to 10 percent lower). I find the following range for whole blood in FUNDAMENTALS OF CLINICAL CHEMISTRY: N. W. Teitz, editor; W. B. Saunders, 1987: Human glucose (whole blood, fasting levels) --> 60 - 95 mg./dL. >Which are the strips calibrated for? (Obviously they measure whole blood) Indeed, they do measure whole blood levels, although they are not as accurate as a serum test done in a laboratory. One problem is that cells in the sample continue to metabolize glucose after the sample is drawn, reducing the apparent level. According to Teitz, however, results compare ""reasonably well"" with laboratory results, although ""values below 80 mg./dL. tend to be lower with strip tests, whereas values above 240 mg./dL. can be very erratic."" >What is the conversion factor between human plasma glucose and >whole blood (pin prick) glucose concentration? As stated above, whole blood levels tend to be roughly 5 to 10 percent lower than serum levels. Sample freshness will affect whole blood levels, however. I don't believe there is a well- defined ""conversion factor,"" since cell metabolism will affect samples to varying degrees. The serum/plasma test is much preferred for any except general ""ball park"" testing. -Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.) ",13 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article <1qpg8fINN982@dns1.NMSU.Edu> amolitor@nmsu.edu (Andrew Molitor) writes: >In article >tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes: > >>-Tim May, whose sig block may get him busted in the New Regime > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Isn't this just a little melodramatic? Not at all. Two weeks ago I registered a concern about some programming that was being conducted by a student organisation here at the University of Texas at San Antonio. As a result, I was interrogated by the capus police, who also attempted to create a positive-identification file (photo, fingerprints, etc.). I refused to permit this, and filed a complaint with the University administration. The Vice-President for Business Affairs (the 'boss' of the campus police) stated that he had no interest in the legal/Constitutional implications of those actions. -- The greatest threat facing the citizens of the United States in the decade of the 90s is the United States Government; at all levels -- Federal, State, Local [All opinions are mine, and I reserve the right to deny them at any time - WWH] ",11 "Atari Mono and VGA Have anybody succeded in converting a atari monomchrome monitor into a mono VGA monitor. If so please let me know exactly how you did and what graphics card you used. /Thanx __ __ _ _ l \ / l ___ ( \/ ) Max Brante m88max@tdb.uu.se l l l l l / _ \ \ / l l\_/l l( (_) l / \ Institutionen f|r teknisk databehandling l_l l_l \__l_l(_/\_) Uppsala Universitet ",3 "Re: How often do kids fall sick? etc. In article ashwin@cc.gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes: >Our 20-month son has started falling sick quite often every since he >started going to day care. He was at home for the first year and he did >not fall sick even once. Now it seems like he has some sort of cold or >flu pretty much once a month. Most of the time the cold leads to an ear >infection as well, with the result that he ends up being on antibiotics >3 weeks out of 4. I know kids in day care fall sick more often, but we >... Sounds pretty familiar. I posted similar cries about last September when Caroline just entered daycare. She was two, then, and have been with continuous colds since until last March. As spring approaches, her colds slowed down. Meanwhile we grew more and more relaxed about her colds. Only once did the doctor diagnosed an ear infection and only twice she had antibiotics. (The other time was due to sinus infection, and I wished that I did not give her that awful Septra.) >Are there any studies that can help answer some of these questions? There are the 'net studies' -- that is, if you read this newsgroup often, there will be a round of questions like this every month. There might be formal studies like that, but bear with my not so academic experience. Okay? > >-- How often do kids in their first, second and third years fall sick? >How often do they get colds, flus, ear infections? Gee, I bet 50/50 you'll hear cases in all these catagories. > Is there any data on home care vs. day care? I am pretty sure, an insulated child at home sicks less. But, that child still will face the world one day. > >-- Does being sick ""build immunity"" (leading to less illness later), That's what I believe and comfort myself with. Caroline will get more and more colds for sure before she learned not to stick her hand in other kid's mouth nor let other kids do the same. Cold virus mutate easily. However, I hope that her immune system will be stronger to fight these diseases, so she would be less severely affected. Everytime she has a cold, we make sure she blow her nose frequently and give her Dorcol or Dimetapp at night so she can have good rest (thanks to some suggestions from the net). That's about all the care she needs from us. I try very hard to keep her off antibiotics. Twice her ped. gave me choice to decide whether she would have antibiotics. I waited just long enough (3-4 days) to see that she fought the illness off. I do understand that you don't have much choice if the child is in pain and/or high fever. >does it make kids ""weaker"" (leading to more illness later), or does it >not have any long term effect? If the child doesn't rely on antibiotics to fight off the sickness everytime, then the child should be stronger. > >-- Does taking antibiotics on a regular basis have any negative long >term effects? > I'll leave this to expert. >-- How does one tell if a child is more susceptible to illness than >normal, and what does one do about it? > If your child just entered daycare, I'm pretty sure the first 6 months will be the hardest. (Then, you get more used to it. Boy, do I hate to see me typing this sentence. I recall when I read something like this last September, I said to myself, 'oh, sure.' But, I do get used to it, now.) However, I do hear people say that it does get better after a year or two. I am looking forward to a healthier next winter. As it gets warmer, I hope you do get some break soon. >-- Is there any way to build immunity and resistance? > Eat well, sleep well. Try not to use antibiotics if not absolutely necessary. Good luck. Wen-lin -- ",13 "Re: Clipper considered harmful [Restated and amplified] >Clipper also allows an extraordinary opportunity for the criminal to >conceal use of super-encryption. An automated full-system surveillance >mechanism (quite feasible across radio bandwidth) which knows family key F, >can validate Clipper wrappers and N:ESN associations, but it cannot reveal >in realtime the use of super-encryption, unless it knows all unit keys, >which we are being assured are only to be made available in two separate >pieces, upon specific wiretap-like order. The serial number will be in a 64 bit block, with a 34 bit filler. Doesn't take a lot to check to see if that is correct. ",11 "Re: Israel: An Apartheid state. In article <2710@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au> jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes: >In article <1smllm$m06@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes: > >>I consider that defining the belonging to a nation that claims the >>right to have a State based on religious belief is a form of racism. > >Although I don't want to muddy the waters unnecessarily I disagree. Any >discrimination based on religion is not and cannot be racist unless the >sole qualification for religious membership is racial. In the same way in which antisemite means anti-Jewish and not anti-all- persons-of-who-are-semite, a ""form of racism"" means: A form of segregation against all those who are different based on the religious identification. AAP >Joseph Askew > >-- ",17 "Need xman source Where can I get xman source? I would rather get xman for an HP 9000/700, but source will do. ",5 "Re: Motorola XC68882RC33 and RC50 In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article sgberg@charon.bloomington.in.us (Stefan Berg) writes: >>... I don't know why my FPU has an XC (my original 33MHz FPU >>was label MC68882-33), but it seems to work fine on my system... >>P.S. Or does it mean eXperimental Chip instead of Motorola Chip? .-) > >The rule for the designations is that if it says MC, that means it works >*exactly* the way the datasheet/book specifies. If it says XC, that means >there is at least one known bug. Often these bugs are small and obscure; >you might never run into them in practice. > XC units are often pre-production sample devices. Those are normally distributed for evaluation as freebies and are not guaranteed to meet every spec. >At least Motorola admits it, unlike certain other companies... Yep, that's for sure...that's one thing I like most about Motorola. aaron ",12 "Graphics Library Package Hi all, I am looking for a recommandation on a good royalty free graphics library package for C and C++ program. This is mainly use to write children games and education software. I heard someone mentioned Genus and also GFX ? Are they any good? Please pardon me if my question sounds a little strange, I am asking this question for a friend. Thanks in advance! Caroline Tsang ",1 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? >Capser, before you deceive everone into thinking that the latter-day >saints have undergone undue persecution through the years for just >believing in their religion, perhaps you would like to tell us all what >happened in the Mountain Meadow Massacres and all the killings that were >done under the Blood Atonement Doctrine, at the command of Brigham Young? Why don't you tell us, Tony? I'm sure what you THINK you know adds up to a lot more than what Casper has. Doesn't it frustrate you to consider how many intelligent, thoughtful people you have prepared for the Mormon missionaries with your rant? The more you talk, the better we look. Nothing makes the truth look better than a background of falsehood. Sic 'em, Tony! -- ------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.freenet.edu ------------- --------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --------- ",19 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <1993Apr21.053035.29591@mcs.kent.edu>, mhamilto@Nimitz.mcs.kent.edu (The Lawnmowerman) writes: > > Oh, then, I guess that shooting THOSE kind of babies is all right. > > You sick bastard. > Why thanks for your reply to my post. By the way, I never, never ever said > that it was right to shoot ""THOSE kind"" of babies. Let's go to the videotape. Here's exactly what you posted: > > THIS IS MURDER! > > ATF MURDERERS! BUTCHERS!! > Flame on!! > Is this guy serious???? > If he would ever really pay attention to the news (oops I forgot that the media > for the most part loves to jump right on top of a story before all the facts > are known, as well as to manipulate what we see and thus what we believe). > Any ways one of Koresh's DEVOTED followers that DID I REPEAT DID survive this > ""GENOCIDAL MASS-SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE"". Besides there are nine > survivors in the burn-unit of the local hospital and was reported that David > -> was in one of the towers when the shit hit the fan. Besides, a majority of > -> these children were children that he was supposed to have been the father of, > -> this then makes them bastard children to a sacraligious zeloit (sp). Also > someone should have told David and his followers that if they can't the heat > then they should stay out of the kitchen!! (pun intended) So if you weren't saying that the deaths of ""bastard children of a sacreligious zealot"" was no big thing (and I know I am not the only one who read it that way), just what the hell WERE you saying? > However it was the Branch > Davidian people in there that insisted on staying there with their ""savior"" > (yeah right budy boy) because he had brain-washed them into believing that > what ever he says is the truth, even if means that they are to give up their > lives for <<<>>> cause. Therefore it is Davids fault and not the ATF's > who gave them 50 to 51 days to get out, this was 50 days to many for me and > for many of the rest of the U.S. So who brainwashed YOU into believing that whatever the government says it the truth? Or that Koresh was any actual threat to you and the rest of the US? Haven't you ever stopped to wonder WHY the government raided this farm? This raid was NOT ABOUT RELIGION, SEX, OR CHILD ABUSE. To the best available evidence at the moment, this raid, psychological torture, and group death was about Koresh's failure to PAY A $200 TAX on ONE grenade launcher that he may or may not even have had! That's why it was the BATF doing the raiding in the first place. Do you think a $200 tax evasion justifies an armed assault by the government with 100 armed men in trailers, orchestrated character assassination, noise torture, and a holocaust? > I am however sad to hear of the death of any > child unlike the sick bastard I supposedly am. Then think before you post. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Re: iterations of the bible OFM replies to a question on the multiplicity of translations of the bible, >As far as I know, no Christians >believe that the process of copying manuscripts or the process of >translating is free of error. Unfortunately, this isn't true. On another news group earlier this year, someone posted that the King James Bible was the divinely inspired version of the Bible in English and was, therefore, inerrant; all other English translations were from Satan, trying to deceive the body of Christ. A few years ago, the pastor of a church I was attending showed me a poster advertising the availability of a certain man to address congregations. Very prominantly on the poster was the fact that the man used only the KJV. The idea that the KJV is THE English Bible is more prevalent than many might think. -- Scott at Brandeis ""But God demonstrates His ""The Lord bless you, and keep you; own love for us, in that the Lord make His face shine on you, while we were yet sinners, and be gracious to you; Christ died for us."" the Lord lift up His countenance on you, and give you peace."" -- Romans 5:8 [NASB] -- Numbers 6:24-26 [NASB] ",15 "Re: Oops! Oh no! JACK ROGERS WATERS (jrwaters@eos.ncsu.edu) wrote: : In article <1ppejb$3h0@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck) writes: : > : >Well, at least I damaged my own bike. If I had done it to someone else's : >property I'd *really* feel like a jerk. As it is I just feel stupid. : > : I don't mean to be a cynic but . . . . you may want to reconsider : having the body work done right away. The same type of thing : may happen again. Wait till you get used to the bike, etc. Well, I waited a whole week to take the pastic bits off and take them to the body shop. Is that long enough :-) -- ******************************************************************************* * Bill Ranck ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu * ******************************************************************************* ",8 "House for Sale in Mercerville, NJ I am posting this for a friend. Please do not respond to me. Thanks. House for Sale!!!!! 16 Brockton Road, Mercerville, New Jersey Description: Beautiful 3 bedroom, 1 1/2 bath cape cod located on a large tastefully landscaped corner with fenced in lot. This home features an eat-in kitchen with built-in corner china closet, a large living room, wall-to-wall carpeting, hardwood floors, new ceramic tile foyer, and freshly painted neutral tone decor. This home includes new central air and heating, new roof, new water heater, aluminum siding, storm windows and doors and Rockwell insulation in all exterior walls. Also features a new partially finished basement with an outside entrance and new Duro shed. Lots of storage space. Convenient to Rt. 295. Extras: Dishwasher, Washer and Dryer, Ceiling Fans, and Window Treatments Call for appointment at (609) 586-1946. *****Open House on Sunday, April 18th, 1:00 - 4:00. Call for Directions***** ",6 "Re: SHO and SC In article <1993Apr16.193553.27118@mksol.dseg.ti.com> a207706@moe.dseg.ti.com (Robert Loper) writes: >In article callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes: >>In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes: >> >>I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic >>transmissions from all ""performance-type"" cars (like the 5.0l >>Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of >>accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans, >>but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO. >> >> James >> >I have to disagree with this. I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto >w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way. Chevy autos are reknowned >for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power. I live >in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic >here. Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be >more fun. > I don't know if it's as much an issue of their ablility to handle the power as it is the power they lose (in the torque converter, etc). >Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be >shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here. >Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0 >Camaro w/ a five speed. > However, if you encounter a '93 Formula with 5.7L & 6-Speed Manual, You'll be SOL, I'm afraid. ;) BTW, I know of what I speak as a former owner of a 5.7L Auto IROC (1989) and current owner of the aforementioned car... Chris S. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Silvester | ""Any man capable of getting himself elected President chriss@sam.amgen.com | should by no means be allowed to do the job"" chriss@netcom.com | - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",7 "Re: Thoughts on a 1982 Yamaha Seca Turbo? In article <6APR93.15402582@skyfox> howp@skyfox writes: >I was wondering if anybody knows anything about a Yamaha Seca Turbo. I'm >considering buying a used 1982 Seca Turbo for $1300 Canadian (~$1000 US) >with 30,000 km on the odo. This will be my first bike. Any comments? Don't just nab it, POUNCE on it. These are fairly rare bikes, and they are MORE than adequate for putting a big brown stripe in your shorts. Does a 50mph power wheelie appeal to you? I thought it would... Only really bad things: the stock clutch isn't up to the task. Barnett can take care of this. The back tire wears quickly (gee, wonder why?), and the induction system is a bear to work on. Later, -- Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - pending delivery agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. ",8 "compiling clients on a Sun IPX I'm trying to set up an IPX for another group. I copied all the X stuff that I compiled on my 4/280 (which runs SunOS 4.1.1) using gcc 2.1, and most things run just fine. however, I did find a couple of bugs, and when I try to recompile those clients on the IPX (which runs 4.1.3), I get ld: Undefined symbol _XShapeQueryExtension _XShapeCombineMask I know that I can include libXext and get rid of those messages, but I can't figure out why I get them on the IPX and not on the 4/280. any ideas? -- Ned Danieley (ndd@sunbar.mc.duke.edu) Basic Arrhythmia Laboratory Box 3140, Duke University Medical Center Durham, NC 27710 (919) 660-5111 or 660-5100 ",5 "1988 BMW K75S For Sale 3500 miles, black leather tank bra, tank bag, Corbin seat, Metzler 'B' tires. Garaged and pampered. I can't afford to continue paying NYC garage fees for two bikes so one of 'em has to go. Best offer above $4500 takes it. -- Stephen Manes manes@magpie.linknet.com Manes and Associates New York, NY, USA =o&>o ",8 "Re: Modem/Windows problems In article <1993Apr12.174632.29009@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, nstassen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Nicki A Stassen Lantz) writes: |> What a weekend... :( ... I replaced my motherboard, upgraded to DOS 6, MS |> Windows 3.1, and now experience lockups in any windows application using the |> modem. |> |> 386DX/DXL-40 CPU (AMD?) |> AMI BIOS |> I/O card with 2 serial, 1 parallel and 1 game ports (generic cheapo) |> IDE controller (two HD, two FD) |> internal packard bell 2400 modem |> mouse |> |> The mouse is set to COM1, IRQ4 (via jumper on the I/O board and parms on the |> mouse driver). The modem is set to COM2, IRQ3 (jumpers on modem board). In |> addition, I think I have disabled the second serial port on the I/O card since |> it is unused. Mouse works fine. |> |> Here's the deal: Procomm DOS version works fine through the modem. |> Procomm for Windows, (CIM) Compuserve for windows, and |> Terminal all lockup when I try to do anything with the |> modem. The screen just freezes, no sound comes from the |> modem, nor any messages on the screen. |> |> I'm getting REAL frustrated. Could the second port on the I/O card still be |> enabled? Would this cause a problem? I've been through most of the software |> routes, so I'm beggining to believe that maybe this is a hardware problem. |> Anybody been through a similar experience? Anybody have any ideas I could try?? |> Please??? |> |> Thanks in advance.... |> |> N A Stassen Lantz I ran into the same problem when I upgraded from a 2400 modem to a 14400 modem. Any time I give the modem a reset command [ATZ] while, in windows. The computer locks up. If I give the ATZ command in DOS, it will work. My solution was to not give the modem the [ATZ] command thru windows. In the PROCOMM + install process I told the program I have a hayes compatible 2400 modem. ATZ was not included in the initialization string & it works fine. I called MS about this, & they didn't have a clue as to what the memory/interupt conflict could be. The lockup accures using ANY windows comm program that gives the ATZ command. ",3 "I need HELP! - recording of key/mousestrokes in Windows Sorry about confusing subject/summary/keywords!!! I am a postgrad researcher in ESL/applied linguistics at Edith Cowan University in Perth Western Australia... I DESPERATELY need help!!! I need to record the results of word processing sessions in windows - so that I can sit down and replay the results of my research subjects' wordprocessing behaviours - naturally, I can do this with the Windows macrorecorder - and 2 or 3 other apps in windows - BUT I CANNOT PAUSE/RESUME!!!! - i.e. all I can do is to ctrl/break to get out - this is useless for a researcher who needs to be able to pause the wordprocessing session he is replaying to make notes/annotations - and then RESUME from where he left off... I am just about to commence my research for my Masters thesis and would be EXTREMELY grateful for any assistance - if anyone can help could they mail me at: johnoliver@odin.DIALix.oz.au Many thanks in advance... John Oliver ",2 "Bimmer vs Beamer Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the record straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please, let's get our terms straight. Actually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round tail light 2002 or 1600. Mark ",7 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies In article <1993Apr21.185741.15458@colorado.edu>, laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu (Laszlo Nemeth) writes... >In article , wrs@wslack.UUCP (Bill Slack) writes: >|> >|> Various posts about shafties can't do wheelies: >|> >|> >: > No Mike. It is imposible due to the shaft effect. The centripital effects >|> >: > of the rotating shaft counteract any tendency for the front wheel to lift >|> >: > off the ground >|> > >|> >Good point John...a buddy of mine told me that same thing when I had my >|> >BMW R80GS; I dumped the clutch at 5,000rpm (hey, ito nly revved to 7 or so) and >|> >you know what? He was right! >|> >|> Uh, folks, the shaft doesn't have diddleysquatpoop to do with it. I can get >|> the front wheel off the ground on my /5, ferchrissake! > >you may have been able to bounce the front up but not >actually do a ""wheelie"". see the shaft effect unloads >the rear susspension and effectivly loads the front. >this is why a shaft bike should accelerate if it starts >scraping in a corner...... > > >laz Sorry to be contradictory, but... I've had my Nighthawk at 45 degress with the horizon and I wasn't banked over in a turn... The hard part is getting the front in off the ground. I rev to about 7,000 at DROP the clutch. Even harder is keeping it from coming up to far-- I use the back brake as well as the throttle. Once its up, it'll wheelie just like any other bike. Ethan +==============================================================================+ | Ethan Bowerman DoD# 682 1983 CB650SC Nighthawk | | -- ""Hey... who cuts yer' hair man?"" __ ""Nothing clears the mind quite | | -- Cheech and Chong like a maxed out tach and a | | -- ""A closed mouth contains no feet."" buried speedometer."" | | -- Unknown -- Me | +==============================================================================+ ",8 "Re: Motor-Voter In article <1r7tjnINNgcu@bigbird.williams.edu> 96csw@williams.edu (Walter ""Gib"" Gibson) writes: [Motor-Voter stuff] > > My friend, after the election, brought up the point that it >would enable more people to vote, however, since it makes it easier to >get to the place of registration. He brought up the analogy that if >there were only ONE place to vote, say, in Alaska- would it be >excessive and wasteful to petition to have more places to vote? This >is a similar idea- a way to encourage more people to vote by making it >more easily accessible. I, not knowing where I stood, played devil's >advocate and said - well, would you have the taxpayer's money go to >busing for those people that have trouble making it to DMV, then? >Where does the right to vote merge with the right to vote easily? >Where should we draw the lines? Well, there does have to be a line. And to be honest, extending voter registration to DMVs is hardly analogous to having only one place for registration in Alaska and opening a new one in Atlanta. More is not always better once you've passed a certain point. > My friend said that that is obviously an extreme and that >actually the motor-voter bill would SAVE money because no longer would >the city have to pay someone to sit in the town hall and spend all >his/her time filing those things- they'd just be at the push of a >button or the filling out of an X at DMV. So I (actually someone >else, but there's no need to confuse this anymore) countered again >saying that wouldn't congress, *as always*, get exorbitent budgets and >fund committees to orchestrate and oversee the implementation.... the >argument went back and forth forever- ranging from whether or not it's >BETTER to have more people voting, whether that is even relevant, >etc.... > > just looking for some more opinions. Anybody got 'em??? I thought the Motor Voter bill passed. In any case, my experiance with Tennessee's voter registration system (which you can register with by mail, by the way) is that nobody who is interested in voting is being denied access to registration. All it requires is just the tiniest bit of interest on the registrant's part and thinking about the election once in the eleven months prior to it. (Once you register it's good unless you miss for years worth of elections of move.) It's easy to register now. I simply don't see the value in going out and trying to get people registered who don't have enough gumption to even write and have the proper forms sent to them. How can we expect responsible decisions out of these people? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - ""I still remember the way you laughed, the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't love me anymore."" - ""Weird Al"" ",18 "stolen CBR900RR Stolen from Pasadena between 4:30 and 6:30 pm on 4/15. Blue and white Honda CBR900RR california plate KG CBR. Serial number JH2SC281XPM100187, engine number 2101240. No turn signals or mirrors, lights taped over for track riders session at Willow Springs tomorrow. Guess I'll miss it. :-((( Help me find my baby!!! kjg ",8 "harddrive Does anyone out there know how to add an additional internal hard-drive to a mac IIsi. NOT to replace the already existing hardrive! I was think of hooking to internal drive together or any other ways to add internal harddrive beside replacement. I just don't wanadd an external harddrive. I'm open to any suggestions..please response to the address below. thanks internet: yolo2@utkvx.utk.edu bitnet: yolo@utkvx ",4 "Integration of HP46021A-Keyboard into SCO ODT 2.0 SCO ODT allows to adapt the X-Server to any non-standard (AT) keyboard using the Xkeyboard configuration compiler xsconfig. SCO provides some configuration files in /usr/lib/X11/xsconfig/*.kbd, e.g. for Siemens WX200. Question: Is there anywhere a configuration file for the HP46021A keyboard available ? I am especially interested in using the HP specific keys such as ""InsertLine"", ""Menu"". Thanks -Ron. ",5 "Re: ATM... ==> Now HPLJ 4 Pricing While there are too many PS clones to count, some of which are quite poor, trying to clone something that goes through regular modifications does require some patience. Three questions come to mid real quick for something like this. Q: Which version of Adobe PS will we clone? Aside from the level 1 and level 2 issues, Adobe has in the past released new code that incorporates modifications/upgrades/fixes just as all other software vendors do. The level 2 stuff may seem sound now, but I assure you,changes will become more frequent as their customer list begins to dwindle in the face of competition. This allows them to shift people to maintenance, as well as design efforts for level 3. Q: Do we duplicate the bugs, or do we make it work correctly? From the LaserWriter to the LaserJet 4 there have been bugs. (If I had a number to call at HP or Adobe, they'ld have heard from me.) Deciding which approach to take depends on which printer you want to emulate. Q: Do we follow the Red Book, or do we follow someone's implementation? Without a doubt, there are differences between the Red Book and Adobe's PS. With level 2 many issues have been refined but the Red Book does leave big, big holes in the implementation specific stuff. It would be nice it the Red Bood at least pined things down enough so that two different implementations of Adobe's PS don't do the exact opposite given an identical set of conditions. Q: PSCRIPT.DRV? Having done a lot of PS clone testing myself, the unfortunate side of testing is the limited number of sources for test files. The primary source we use is Genoa. And having characterizes their 1992 PS ATS files, (1300+ of them) over half are taken from PSCRIPT.DRV. It may not ideal, but the ATS files are what the printer vendors use. I'm sure that Adobe uses them too, but Adobe's output is by definition correct, even if its wrong. Yes, there are some very poor clones. We've seen them here at Rastek (a sub of Genicom which has its own clone called GeniScript). Some are poor for lack of design, some are poor because they followed the Red Book, and some are poor because the vendors don't know what PS is. Don Newbold don@rastek.com ",2 "DC-X: Choice of a New Generation (was Re: SSRT Roll-Out Speech) In article <1r4uos$jid@access.digex.net> jkatz@access.digex.com (Jordan Katz) writes: > Speech Delivered by Col. Simon P. Worden, > The Deputy for Technology, SDIO > > Most of you, as am I, are ""children of the 1960's."" We grew >up in an age of miracles -- Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles, >nuclear energy, computers, flights to the moon. But these were >miracles of our parent's doing. > Speech by Pete Worden > Delivered Before the U.S. Space Foundation Conference > I'm embarrassed when my generation is compared with the last >generation -- the giants of the last great space era, the 1950's >and 1960's. They went to the moon - we built a telescope that >can't see straight. They soft-landed on Mars - the least we >could do is soft-land on Earth! Just out of curiousity, how old is Worden? -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Brian Yamauchi Case Western Reserve University yamauchi@alpha.ces.cwru.edu Department of Computer Engineering and Science _______________________________________________________________________________ ",14 "Re: PLEASE! SHOW UP IN WASHINGTON DC FOR BOSNIA (MAY 15th) In article <1sreod$73k@venus.haverford.edu> Michael Sells writes: >Subject: Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians >From: Satya Prabhakar, prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu >Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:50:31 GMT >In article Satya Prabhakar, >prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu writes: >>(mohamed.s.sadek) writes: >>> >>>I like what Mr. Joseph Biden had to say yesterday 5/11/93 in the senate. >>> >>>Condemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans >>>and calling that ""moral rape"". >>> >>>He went on to say that the reason for that is ""out right religious >BIGOTRY"" >> >>Actually, this strife in Yugoslavia goes back a long way. Bosinan >Muslims, >>in collaboration with the Nazis, did to Serbians after the first world >>war what Serbs are doing to Muslims now. > >This kind of racialist generalization is utterly inappropriate. SOME >Bosnian Muslims cooperated with the Nazis in World War 2. Other Bosnian >Muslims risked their lifes to hide Jews from the Nazis and Ustashe, and >those Jews who survived the war remember that. In fact the Jewish leader >in Sarajevo has remained there saying he wants to repay the debt to the >Bosnian Muslims that saved so many Jewish lives in WW2. > >Similarly, SOME Serbs are ""doing"" to Muslims now. This is a group of >serial-killers, rapists, and thieves who have control of the vast >Yugoslav army arsenal. Many other Serbs oppose these atrocities. As one >of Serbian heritage who condemns emphatically the genocide being carried >out against Muslims by both HVO and Mladic forces, I condemn your >generalization about Bosnian Muslims and about Serbs. > > > This is not a fresh case of >>ethnic cleansing but just another chapter in the continuing saga >>of intense mutual hatred, destruction,... > >Every place on earth is the scene of a saga of mutual hatred and >destruction. The holocaust was not a ""fresh case."" It was another >chapter in a 900 year history of attacks on Jews in Europe. That didn't >make it acceptable. and Balkan history does not make the genocide against >Bosnian Muslims acceptable. > >Not taking sides in this >>perpetual war does not amount to religious bigotry. > >Standing by and allowing well-armed criminals to slaughter Bosnian Muslim >civilians, while enforcing an arms embargo against the Bosnian Muslims is >not only religious bigotry it is direct complicity in mass-murder. > > > It could just >>be helplessness with regards to bringing peace to a region that does >>not even know the meaning of the word. > >You tell us a region on earth that does have a long history of war. NATO >is the largest military ""police force"" in the world. It was not >""helpless."" It could have stopped the carnage a year ago. > > >> >>Satya Prabhakar > >Regards, > >Mike. >-- >Michael Sells, Department of Religion, Haverford College >Haverford, Pa 19041-1392 ",17 "Re: criminals & machineguns In article <93104.175256U28037@uicvm.uic.edu> Jason Kratz writes: >people are getting killed by gang violence every day? Every single day I hear >about more people getting killed by gang violence and see some of the weapons >that are being confiscated. Is Kratz claiming that he can reliably visually distinguish an M-16 from an AR-15? That he can see the difference between a semi-auto and a full-auto UZI? That he can see the difference between the various versions (some full-auto, some semi-auto only) of the M-11/9? If so, I'd love to hear the details, if only because they'll demonstrate that Kratz is blowing smoke. Considering that one can design a gun so that it looks just like another gun, yet have very different properties, and that that's quite common.... Most kids in my neighborhood were quite young when they figured out that my parents car wasn't much like Richard Petty's, even though it looked just like it (except for the paint job). Things must have been different with Kratz. >Sure it's on TV but why does that make a difference? No, it doesn't, but that's irrelevant. If visual inspection of the outside worked, TV would be acceptable, but since it doesn't, the fact that it's just as good as seeing in person doesn't mean much. -andy gave Kratz a chance to back down on this in private -- ",16 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? I don't know who's next, but I hope it's people who pick their noses while driving. -- John Berryhill ",16 "Re: accupuncture and AIDS aliceb@tea4two.Eng.Sun.COM (Alice Taylor) writes: >A friend of mine is seeing an acupuncturist and >wants to know if there is any danger of getting >AIDS from the needles. Ask the practitioner whether he uses the pre-sterilized disposable needles, or if he reuses needles, sterilizing them between use. In the former case there's no conceivable way to get AIDS from the needles. In the latter case it's highly unlikely (though many practitioners use the disposable variety anyway). euclid -- Euclid K. standard disclaimers apply ""It is a bit ironic that we need the wave model [of light] to understand the propagation of light only through that part of the system where it leaves no trace."" --Hudson & Nelson (_University_Physics_) ",13 "Re: Griffin / Office of Exploration: RIP yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes: >Any comments on the absorbtion of the Office of Exploration into the >Office of Space Sciences and the reassignment of Griffin to the ""Chief >Engineer"" position? Is this just a meaningless administrative >shuffle, or does this bode ill for SEI? >In my opinion, this seems like a Bad Thing, at least on the surface. >Griffin seemed to be someone who was actually interested in getting >things done, and who was willing to look an innovative approaches to >getting things done faster, better, and cheaper. It's unclear to me >whether he will be able to do this at his new position. >Does anyone know what his new duties will be? First I've heard of it. Offhand: Griffin is no longer an ""office"" head, so that's bad. On the other hand: Regress seemed to think: we can't fund anything by Griffin, because that would mean (and we have the lies by the old hardliners about the $ 400 billion mars mission to prove it) that we would be buying into a mission to Mars that would cost 400 billion. Therefore there will be no Artemis or 20 million dollar lunar orbiter et cetera... They were killing Griffin's main program simply because some sycophants somewhere had Congress beleivin that to do so would simply be to buy into the same old stuff. Sorta like not giving aid to Yeltsin because he's a communist hardliner. At least now the sort of reforms Griffin was trying to bring forward won't be trapped in their own little easily contained and defunded ghetto. That Griffin is staying in some capacity is very very very good. And if he brings something up, noone can say ""why don't you go back to the OSE where you belong"" (and where he couldn't even get money for design studies). -- Phil Fraering |""Seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|Like how the ancient Mayans had televison."" Repo Man ",14 "Re: Christian Morality is acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery) said re. Dan Schaertel's article [if I followed the quoting right]: >> As much as anything else you learn. How do you choose what >> to believe and what not to? I could argue that George >> Washington is a myth. He never lived because I don't have >> any proof except what I am told. However all the major >> events of the life of Jesus Christ were fortold hundreds of >> years before him. Neat trick uh? > How is this? There is nothing more disgusting than Christian attempts to > manipulate/interpret the Old Testament as being filled with signs for the > coming of Christ. Every little reference to a stick or bit of wood is > autmoatically interpreted as the Cross. What a miscarriage of philology. I think it may also be worthwhile pointing out that if we take the appellation `Rabbi' seriously then Jesus had a full grasp of contemporary `scripture' Mat21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures... Mat22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing Mat22:29 the scriptures, nor the power of God. Following from this, he would have been in a wonderful position to fulfil prophesies, and the NT says as much: Mat26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, Mat26:54 that thus it must be? Mat26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the Mat26:56 prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples Mat26:56 forsook him, and fled. If the books comprising the referred-to `scripture' had not been accessible then it probably would be a different matter. --tony ",0 "Re: Ancient islamic rituals In <1pkqe2INN54n@lynx.unm.edu> cfaehl@vesta.unm.edu (Chris Faehl) writes: >In article <1993Apr3.081052.11292@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes: >[deleted, to get to the point:] >> >> Therefore, in a nutshell, my opinion is that pre-marital sex makes the >> likelihood of extra-marital sex more probable. Furthermore, >> in my opinion, extra-marital sex helps break down partnerships and leads >> to greater divorce rates. This in turn, in my opinion, creates trauma >> and a less stable environment for children, who are then, in my opinion, >> more likely to grow up with psychological problems such as depression, >> etc. And thus, sex outside of marriage is, in the long run, harmful to >> society. >I think that you are drawing links where there are none - having sex before >marriage has nothing to do with adultery once committed into marriage. The >issue as I see it is more of how committed you are to not foisting pain on >your spouse, and how confident you are about yourself. > In addition, what someone does within their marriage is their own >business, not mine, and not yours. I have witnessed strong relationships >that incorporate extra-marital sex. > I would agree with your assertion about children - children should not be witness to such confusing relationships - if adultery is stressful to >adults, which I assume it in general is, how can we expect children to >understand it? >> >> Where is the evidence for my opinions? At the moment, there are just >> generalities I can cite. For example, I read that in the 20th century, >> the percentage of youth (and people in general) who suffer from >> depression has been steadily climbing in Western societies (probably >> what I was reading referred particularly to the USA). Similarly, one >> can detect a trend towards greater occurrence of sex outside of marriage >> in this century in Western societies -- particularly with the ""sexual >> revolution"" of the 60's, but even before that I think (otherwise the >> ""sexual revolution"" of the 60's would not have been possible), >> particularly with the gradual weakening of Christianity and consequently >> Christian moral teachings against sex outside of marriage. I propose >> that these two trends -- greater level of general depression in society >> (and other psychological problems) and greater sexual promiscuity -- are >> linked, with the latter being a prime cause of the former. I cannot >> provide any evidence beyond this at this stage, but the whole thesis >> seems very reasonable to me and I request that people ponder upon it. >Why is it more reasonable than the trend towards obesity and the trend towards >depression? You can't just pick your two favorite trends, notice a correlation >in them, and make a sweeping statement of generality. I mean, you CAN, and >people HAVE, but that does not mean that it is a valid or reasonable thesis. >At best it's a gross oversimplification of the push-pull factors people >experience. My argument is mainly a proposal of what I think is a plausible argument against extra-marital sex -- one which I personally believe has some truth. My main purpose for posting it here is to show that a _plausible_ argument can be made against extra-marital sex. At this stage I am not saying that this particular viewpoint is proven or anything like that, just that it is plausible. To try to convince you all of this particular point of view, I would probably have to do a lot of work researching what has been done in this field, etc., in order to gather further evidence, which I simply do not have time to do now. Also note that I said that I think extra-marital sex is ""a prime cause"" (in my opinion) of the generally greater levels of psychological problems, especially depression, in Western societies. I am not saying it is ""the prime cause"" or ""the only cause"", just ""a prime cause"" -- i.e. one of the significant contributions to this trend. I think when you say you think my view is simplistic, you have forgotten this -- I admit that there are probably other factors, but I do think that extra-marital sex (and, IMO, subsequent destabilization of the family) is a significant factor in the rise in psychological problems like depression in Western society this century. Fred Rice darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au ",0 "Re: New to Motorcycles... In article <1993Apr20.131800.16136@alw.nih.gov> gregh@niagara.dcrt.nih.gov (Gregory Humphreys) writes: }1) I only have about $1200-1300 to work with, so that would have }to cover everything (bike, helmet, anything else that I'm too }ignorant to know I need to buy) The following numbers are approximate, and will no doubt get me flamed: Helmet (new, but cheap) $100 Jacket (used or very cheap) $100 Gloves (nothing special) $ 20 Motorcycle Safety Foundation riding course (a must!) $140 That leaves you between $900 and $1000 (depending on the accuracy of my numbers) to buy a used bike, get it registered, get it insured, and get it running properly. I'd say you're cutting it close. Perhaps if your parents are reasonable, and you indicated your wish to learn to ride safely, you could get them to pick up the cost of the MSF course and some of the safety gear. Early holiday presents or whatever. Those are one-time (well, long-term anyway) investments, and you could spend your money on the actual bike, insurance, registration, and maintenance. -- Curtis Jackson cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com '91 Hawk GT '81 Maxim 650 DoD#0721 KotB '91 Black Lab mix ""Studley Doright"" '92 Collie/Golden ""George"" ""There is no justification for taking away individuals' freedom in the guise of public safety."" -- Thomas Jefferson ",8 "Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils) In article , wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes: > Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they > have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as > first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be > different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey. > I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points > with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put > win as first in a tie breaker...... Then allow me to enlighten you, Rex. You see, there's a thing called a tie. A tie is worth one point (I know, I know. You're not good at math. But bear with me). A win is worth two points. So, getting two ties is the same as getting one win. If your team played two games, won one and lost one, you'd have two points. If my team played two games and tied them both, we'd also have two points. We'd be tied in the standings even though our records are different. Perhaps you should learn something about hockey before posting again. (I am starting to sound like Roger or what?) Alan ",10 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes: [much BS deleted for brevity] >Again, my point was that not all microsofties are here to ""sell"" >readers on our products (which would conflict with the ""no-ads"" >philosophy of usenet). Nor do we necessarily have access to info >that others have. It certainly smacks of that! Remember the ""POLL"" that you quoted saying that you had seen a 95% of users being satisfied with DOS 6.0? Care to recall how unbiased the sample set was? That post sure looked like FUD....and coming from a microsoftie .... well, it sure seemed like something was not on level. Advocacy is GOOD - but spreading FUD to advocate your favorite OS is very unethical - especially when you have a vested interest in the success of that OS. >I also get tired of people assuming that microsofties are, like, >members of the BORG. That is because their actions seem to invite this opinion - never seen more defensive people in my life. Moreover, many of their posts seem to encourage this too, IMHO. Seriously speaking, it is a shame that MS techie employees get the heat for MS's actions - most of which are perpetrated by the Management and marketing. I am sure that they ARE very talented etc ... I have not doubts about their abilities, just about the ethics of their marketing practices. Divya -- Divya ""Live long, and then DIE a slow and horrible death ...."" - What Confucius wanted to say .... ",2 "Re: Anyone interested in facts? Here's a few Oops, I forgot to set read permission. It's fixed now. ftp netcom.com login: anonymous password: your@email.address cd pub/mvp binary get clinton.zip You need pkzip 2.x or the latest net.zip to un-""deflate"" this. Economic stats since Day One, plus all of the myriad ways Slick Willie and the Gang of 535 are preparing to do it to us. From Ron Brown's desk, so any distortion is pro-Democrat, can you believe it? -- Let's face it, when it comes to utilities, Microsoft has | Mike Van Pelt performed about as well as a savings and loan. These are | mvp@netcom.com the guys, remember, who put BACKUP and RESTORE - not to | mvp@lsil.com mention EDLIN - on your hard disk. - Lincoln Spector +---- ",18 "BIKE FOR SALE ... 1986 Harley FLHTC For sale 1986 Harley FLHTC Liberty Edition. Good condition. Many extras. Asking $7500. Located in Rhode Island. Peter Levine plevine@ele.uri.edu ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qkhju$43c@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes: >#Given a choice between a peaceful compromise or endless contention, >#I'd say that compromise seems to be ""better"". >And I would agree. But it's bloody to pointless to speak of it if it's >merely a matter of taste. Is your liking for peace any better founded >than someone else's liking for ice-cream? I'm looking for a way to say >""yes"" to that question, and relativism isn't it. The problem is, Frank, that you are bringing your own _subjective_ values into the debate and on the basis of those values you are making claim to something that there is not any evidence (that I've seen, anyhow) to support. This is not unsimilar to those people who make claims to supernatural gods, not on the basis of fact, but because it makes them feel better to think that they can minipulate their environment by influencing those gods. It may be comforting, but is it real? If you are going to claim that there is an absolute or objective morality, the very first thing you have to do is demonstrate that morality itself exists as something more than an abstraction. Only when you have done that can we progress to debating whether this morality is absolute or not. There have been many claims that morality is a component of reality, but then again, there have been plenty of claims made by different folk over the centuries. Claims, without fact to back them up are ultimatly very hollow things. So, having said that, I would ask you to begin by demonstrating that morality is other than just an abstraction. Care to meet the challenge? >-- >Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' >odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon eric ",0 "Re: freely distributable public key cryptography c++ code: where? In <15314.735453769@moose.cs.indiana.edu> Marc VanHeyningen writes: >PGP is not available on the archive site rsa.com. If it were, it >would be highly amusing, since rsa.com (actually Public Key Partners, >but it's the same entity) is the organization holding the patents >which they claim are violated if you actually ""make, use or sell"" PGP. >I believe those patents also apply in Canada, but I'm not a patent >lawyer or anything. (Sorry about double posting, but I forgot something.) ""make, use or sell"" in this context have non-standard meanings: ""Make"" means making an encrypted message. ""Use"" may mean using PGP, or using an encrypted message. ""Sell"" would probably mean selling an encrypted message. It is the message created by a ""patented"" process incorporated in PGP, which infringes. -- Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea 216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal) My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer. ",11 "Re: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis In article <1483500353@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research writes: > >From: Center for Policy Research >Subject: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis > > >Dear Josh > >I appreciate the fact that you sought to answer my questions. > >Having said that, I am not totally happy with your answers. > >1. You did not fully answer my question whether Israeli ID cards >identify the holders as Jews or Arabs. You imply that U.S. >citizens must identify themselves by RACE. Is that true ? Or are >just trying to mislead the reader ? I think he is trying to mislead people. In cases where race information is sought, it is completely voluntary (the census possibly excepted). -anwar ",17 "Re: Trumpet for Windows & other news readers In article <1993Apr21.082430@liris.tew.kuleuven.ac.be> wimvh@liris.tew.kuleuven.ac.be (Wim Van Holder) writes: >What the status of Trumpet for Windows? Will it use the Windows sockets ? >I liked it in DOS but had to abandon it since I started using NDIS to access >our token ring (results in invalid class error :( While I do not speak for Peter Tattam, I am fairly sure he is planning a Winsock compliant version. While this will definitely not make the initial public release of WinTrumpet, it will follow on shortly thereafter. Currently WinTrumpet is in very late beta. It looks like an excellent product, with several features beyond the DOS version. WinTrumpet supports the Trumpet TCP, Novell LWP, and there is also a direct to packet driver version that some people are using with the dis_pkt shim. Ashok -- Ashok Aiyar Mail: ashok@biochemistry.cwru.edu Department of Biochemistry Tel: (216) 368-3300 CWRU School of Medicine, Cleveland, Ohio Fax: (216) 368-4544 ",2 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption In article strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > >Though I agree this is not the place to discuss guns, I note in passing that >a number of gun apologists seem to have ignored the words ""well regulated"" >in their distorted interpretations of the Second Amendment. What interpretations? Just read it as it's written. ""A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people, to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."" Where does it say ""The right of the people to be members of a militia shall not be infringed"" or ""The right of the militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?"" NOWHERE. ""Well-educated businessmen being necessary to the ability of the nation to compete in the international marketplace, the right of the people to attend schools shall not be infringed."" Would you ""interpret"" this to mean that only businessmen should have a protected right to attend schools? Why or why not? -joe ",16 "Re: mouse on COM3 under Windows 3.1 ? In a previous article, jpaparel@cs.ulowell.edu (Joseph Paparella) says: >I've pursued and researched this question over the last month or so because I have the same requirements you do......and the long and short of it is that the windows mouse drivers don't accept mice at any but com1 and com2 using irq4 or irq3 unless you buy special drivers from someone who has them.....I've talked to Mouse Systems who say their driver doesn't support other than com1 and com2 as above , but who claim to be releasing one that will SOON!??. > >The other alternative seems to be possible, but in one case prohibitively expensive, i.e. 4 port card for $600??????!!, and in the other, the author(s) of PowerBBS for Windows claim to have a 4 port serial card with buffered 16550 UARTS and drivers for windows to match (i.e. com3 irq5) for $120...... > >The second paragraph is hearsay, because I haven't checked it out yet.....but intend to as soon as I can free up $120 > >Hope this will save you some steps. > > I had this problem when I first loaded windows. My I/O card is for 2 HD's 2 FD's 1 Parrelel 2 serial (1 for mouse and 1 for my external modem) and a game port. PROBLEM enters. The DARN serial ports have no selection for COM settings, they are stuck on 3 and 4. Good card for HD's and FD's but lousy for serial. I called Microsoft and other places. The long and short of it is WINDOWS wants com1 and 2 ONLY!, for mouse selection. I went out and bought a small I/O card just for parrelel and serial. Now I have ALL 4 active COM ports and LPT1 and LPT2. This Half card was less than $20. Mouse on COM 1 external modem on COM 2, I disabled the LPT2 so I could use the interupt for my scanner card IRQ. C-ya..... /\/\artin -- This communication is sent by /\/\artin University of Arizona Tucson ========================================================================= ak333@cleveland.freenet.edu mlinsenb@ccit.arizona.edu mlinsenb@arizvms DEATH HAS BEEN DEAD FOR ABOUT 2,000 YEARS ****** FOLLOW THE KING OF KINGS ",2 "Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity In article dps@nasa.kodak.com writes: >In article 15441@geneva.rutgers.edu, loisc@microsoft.com (Lois Christiansen) writes: >|>he can, especially homosexuality. Let's reach the homosexuals for Christ. >|>Let's not try to change them, just need to bring them to Christ. If He >|>doesn't want them to be gay, He can change that. [....] >don't hate the people. I don't. I don't hate my kids when they do >wrong either. But I tell them what is right, and if they lie or don't >admit they are wrong, or just don't make an effort to improve or >repent, they get punished. I think this is quite appropriate. Note the difference here. One is saying, if *Christ* disagrees with a Christian being gay, *Christ* can change that. The other is saying, if *I* think being gay is wrong, that a Christian cannot be gay, *I* need to tell them to change. As Lois said, and as before her Paul wrote to the believers in Rome, WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ANOTHER'S SERVANT? -jen -- #include // jenk@microsoft.com // msdos testing ",15 "Re: Homeopathy: a respectable medical tradition? In article <19609@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes: >In article <3794@nlsun1.oracle.nl> rgasch@nl.oracle.com (Robert Gasch) writes: >> >>In many European countries Homepathy is accepted as a method of curing >>(or at least alleiating) many conditions to which modern medicine has >>no answer. In most of these countries insurance pays for the >>treatments. >> > >Accepted by whom? Not by scientists. There are people >in every country who waste time and money on quackery. >In Britain and Scandanavia, where I have worked, it was not paid for. >What are ""most of these countries?"" I don't believe you. > > When were you in Britain?, my information is different. From Miranda Castro, _The Complete Homeopathy Handbook_, ISBN 0-312-06320-2, oringinally published in Britain in 1990. From Page 10, .. and in 1946, when the National Health Service was established, homeopathy was included as an officially approved method of treatment. ",13 "Urine analysis Someone please help me. I am searching to find out (as many others may) an absolute 'cure' to removing all detectable traces of marijuana from a persons body. Is there a chemical or natural substance that can be ingested or added to urine to make it undetectable in urine analysis. If so where can these substances be found. If you know this information, please Email me directly Thank You Kindly for your support, Randy ",13 "Re: The Stage is Being Set In article , ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu () writes: |> Srinivas Suder writes: |> |> >If the Haitian people's will is that their current Govt. get thrown out, |> >they'll find a way to do it. Getting the US/UN to short-cut the process will |> >only hasten it, but sets a bad precedent - can the US interfere EVERYWHERE? |> >Why not right at our doorstep - Cuba? |> |> Precisely, why not Cuba?? Why not??? The Hatians are being ruled by thugs |> and their elected leader has asked support to reestablish the peoples will. Well, let's delve one level deeper. Why is democracy better than tribalism or other means of Govt.? The President of Georgia was elected with a thumping majority and booted out later, w/ no objections from the UN. Similarly, the people of Algeria elected an Islamic Fundemantalist Party into power but the junta declared it illegal. In both cases, I personally have _no_ problems with the outcome, but if the voice of the people is that hallowed thing that the world community claims to revere so, why isn't it interfering there? |> the U.S. or any other democracy wishes to, they are in the perfect right to |> help them without any whining from thir parties. After all if it turns out to |> be colonialism and the poeple don't like it, they' find a way to throw them out . Exactly. My point is that it will inevitably turn out that way, and we can save ourselves a lot of pain and trouble by simply letting people sort out their problems on their own. Colonial interventions, even in Haiti, haven't worked in the past. They had a 102 coups from 1845-1915. The US invaded in 1915. And left in 1933, almost 17 years after they had intended to. Was it a success? Well, look at Haiti today and of the past 40 years and decide for yourself. It _was_ a success so long as the US was in, from what I remember. But it didn't last long, obviously. |> >There is an implicit assumption here that we as outsiders have a right to sit |> >in judgement of another people, and to then act on it. To me, it is in there |> >that the roots of old colonial attitudes lie. Today, the motives are noble. |> >Tomorrow, they may not be. |> |> Who ever said people who commit genocide have the right to commit genocide?? Nobody did. People should have a right to self-defense. If the UN wants to arm the Bosnians or Haitian revolutionaries or whoever, I have no problems with that. I do when they cross that line and attempt to re-arrange boundaries, govts. etc., the Vance-Owen plan being one such piece of insanity. |> I want a world where criminals agains humanity have no place to hide, while you |> want special sovereignties designed to protect them. Nobody has the right to |> commit crimes against humanity, and if they do they loose all right to self |> determination. If this is classical colonialism, then so be it. We finally have a clearly-stated point of difference. Colonialism can have its good side, which is as you stated above - removing thugs from being able to lord it over powerless people. I am worried that the bad side is what will assert itself, and I am prepared to let natural forces take their course if that will mean we can avoid the bad side of colonialism. -- Srinivas Sunder sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu If The University of Illinois shares these views, I'd be surprised. They aren't that smart generally -:). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",17 "Re: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb. ok - sorry about that...i didn't realise he was being sarcastic about those sort of things. but i'll tell you, mike lupica (daily news) usually says some pretty funny things in his ""shooting from the lip"" columns... - bob gaj ",9 "Re: Which high-performance VLB video card? In article <1993Apr16.230319.28437@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA>, tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes: |> PC Magazine just did another review of high-end graphics accelerators. For all |> around performance (Windows, DOS, CAD) go for ATI Graphics Ultra Pro. They've |> done two reviews in the last three months and that card ranks as an editors |> choice in both reviews. For all around performance it seems it just can't be |> beat. You should pick up this issue of PC-Mag (April 13) and check it out for |> yourself. Windows: The recent reviews have all shown that the P9000 cards are significantly faster doing Windows than the ATI card. VGA: The recent reviews have all shown that the P9000 cards they looked at are significantly slower doing VGA than the ATI card. About 1/2 the speed, as I recall. The big question for me is the Orchid V9000 card. Each of the P9000 cards tested so far has had the W5186 to do VGA. Orchid is the only one I know about (I don't know about AMI) that uses the W5286 for VGA. That is reportedly faster. I would like to know whether the Orchid card can do VGA as fast as the ATI card. If so, it would appear to be a formidable competitor. (Advertised prices are about the same for the two cards.) Someone in this group posted a little while back that they were getting an Orchid V9000 card -- has that card arrived? What do the benchmarks look like? Also, is the AMI P9000-based card real? What does it use for VGA? Speed? --Bob ",3 "Re: Gospel Dating Benedikt Rosenau writes: >The argument goes as follows: Q-oid quotes appear in John, but not in >the almost codified way they were in Matthew or Luke. However, they are >considered to be similar enough to point to knowledge of Q as such, and >not an entirely different source. Assuming you are presenting it accurately, I don't see how this argument really leads to any firm conclusion. The material in John (I'm not sure exactly what is referred to here, but I'll take for granted the similarity to the Matt./Luke ""Q"" material) IS different; hence, one could have almost any relationship between the two, right up to John getting it straight from Jesus' mouth. >We are talking date of texts here, not the age of the authors. The usual >explanation for the time order of Mark, Matthew and Luke does not consider >their respective ages. It says Matthew has read the text of Mark, and Luke >that of Matthew (and probably that of Mark). The version of the ""usual theory"" I have heard has Matthew and Luke independently relying on Mark and ""Q"". One would think that if Luke relied on Matthew, we wouldn't have the grating inconsistencies in the geneologies, for one thing. >As it is assumed that John knew the content of Luke's text. The evidence >for that is not overwhelming, admittedly. This is the part that is particularly new to me. If it were possible that you could point me to a reference, I'd be grateful. >>Unfortunately, I haven't got the info at hand. It was (I think) in the late >>'70s or early '80s, and it was possibly as old as CE 200. >When they are from about 200, why do they shed doubt on the order on >putting John after the rest of the three? Because it closes up the gap between (supposed) writing and the existing copy quit a bit. The further away from the original, the more copies can be written, and therefore survival becomes more probable. >>And I don't think a ""one step removed"" source is that bad. If Luke and Mark >>and Matthew learned their stories directly from diciples, then I really >>cannot believe in the sort of ""big transformation from Jesus to gospel"" that >>some people posit. In news reports, one generally gets no better >>information than this. >>And if John IS a diciple, then there's nothing more to be said. >That John was a disciple is not generally accepted. The style and language >together with the theology are usually used as counterargument. I'm not really impressed with the ""theology"" argument. But I'm really pointing this out as an ""if"". And as I pointed out earlier, one cannot make these arguments about I Peter; I see no reason not to accept it as an authentic letter. >One step and one generation removed is bad even in our times. Compare that >to reports of similar events in our century in almost illiterate societies. The best analogy would be reporters talking to the participants, which is not so bad. >In other words, one does not know what the original of Mark did look like >and arguments based on Mark are pretty weak. But the statement of divinity is not in that section, and in any case, it's agreed that the most important epistles predate Mark. -- C. Wingate + ""The peace of God, it is no peace, + but strife closed in the sod. mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing: tove!mangoe + the marv'lous peace of God."" ",0 "Re: iisi clock upgrades I too have been watching the IIsi speedup reports and plan to upgrade in the next few weeks. The plan I have is to build a small board with a few different crystals on it and to be able to switch between the different speeds using a front pannel switch. This way I can get the speed when I want but I can also run at slower (stock) speeds it I experience any compatability problems with any applications. I don't expect to be able to switch clock speeds with the system running, but if I can switch without any lock-up problems, then I could switch to 33MHz when needed and put it back to idle (20 MHz) when not needeed. This would further reduce the wear-and-tear on the CPU even with a heat sink. Of course I would not want to run the different clock signals through the switch but use a chip or two on the board to select the frequency desired and route it directly to the mother board. I haven't started probing around inside my si yet. Does anyone know the voltage level to power the crystal oscilators? Thanks. <<< Tom Dickens: Boeing Computer Services tpd6908@yak.ca.boeing.com >>> <<< These statements are mine and not Boeing's >>> ",4 "Re: 17"" Monitors In article <1qulqa$hp2@access.digex.net>, rash@access.digex.com (Wayne Rash) writes: |> The F550iW is optimized for Windows. It powers down when the screen |> blanker appears, it powers down with you turn your computer off, and it |> meets all of the Swedish standards. It's also protected against EMI from |> adjacent monitors. Thanks for the info. |> Personally, I think the F550i is more bang for the buck right now. How much more does the F550iW cost? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Yang Silicon Graphics, Inc. mikey@sgi.com 415/390-1786 ",3 "Re: < keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: > >The ""`little' things"" above were in reference to Germany, clearly. People >said that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any. >They said that these were things that everyone should know, and that they >weren't going to waste their time repeating them. Sounds to me like no one >knew, either. I looked in some books, but to no avail. If the Anne Frank exhibit makes it to your small little world, take an afternoon to go see it. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away, and sank Manhattan out at sea. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ",0 "Who is Ram Das?? Who is Ram Das? According to his brochures, he is a.k.a. Richard Alpert, PhD, and is somehow associated with the: Seva Foundation 8 N. San Pedro Road San Rafael, CA 94903 and the: Hanuman Foundation 524 San Anselmo Ave #203 San Anselmo, CA 94960 He speaks publically on such topics as ""Consciousness & Current Events,"" and has written some books and recorded some tapes on similar subjects. Why do I care? My wife wants to go to one of his lectures. When I asked why, she said Ram Das was ""the greatest spiritual leader of our time!"" Several years ago my wife got involved with a religious cult, and we went through 9 months of hell that almost ended our marriage before she quit. Let's just say I'm concerned about this Ram Das and her interest, especially so with the recent religious cult events from Texas. I need information - solid and real - so I know what I'm dealing with. If you have any information about Ram Das or the organizations shown above, I would be very interested in your correspondence. Please reply via e-mail to me at: scott%hpsdde@SDD.HP.COM Thank you! -- Scott Roleson [The dictionary of cults that I use classifies this as ""new age"", with a basically Hindu orientation. The headquarters is (or was when this was written) at that Lama Foundation, which they identify as a ""New Age Commune"" in San Cristobel, New Mexico. For information you might read Alpert's books, which they list as ""Be Here Now"" (an autobiography), ""The Only Dance There is"", and ""Grist for the Mill"". It is dealt with briefly in a citation given as ""Larson, New Book, pp 339-41"". I assume this is Bob Larson, ""Larson's New Book of Cults"". I'd warn you however that the whole approach to the ""new age"" is controversial. Sources such as the reference book I used, as well as Bob Larson, believe in a Satanic new age conspiracy, which some regard as hysterical. However at the very least, it seems clear that this is not a Christian group. --clh] ",15 "Re: Abortion In article <1993Apr23.010239.27439@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith ""Justified And Ancient"" Cochran) writes: >In article <1r6nl4INNavr@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Charlie Fulton writes: >>If she doesn't welcome the excruciating pain of labor, the >>selfish bitch deserves to die in childbirth. She was probably >>lying about the rape anyway. > >Let me guess. You're ""pro-life""? Um....perhaps ""pro-sarcasm"" would be more appropriate? [I think we need a ""sarcastic"" smiley symbol to avoid misunderstandings like this in the future!] ************************************************************ * The_Doge of South St. Louis * * Dobbs-Approved Media Conspirator(tm) * * ""One Step Beyond"" -- Sundays, 3 to 5 pm * * 88.1 FM St. Louis Community Radio * * ""You'll pay to know what you *really* think!"" * * -- J.R. ""Bob"" Dobbs"" * ************************************************************ ",19 "Re: So, do any XXXX, I mean police officers read this stuff? In article <1r6ob9$oav@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck) writes: >And of course, you will get a moderate amount of flamage >just for expressing an opinion, no matter what the opinion is *somebody* >will flame you for it. Oh, Bill, you are so full of shit. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. ObMOTO: I happened to miss the discussion of deltabox frames, if there was one, because I actually needed to get some work done last week. So if anybody would care to repeat what got said (since I was the guy who asked, and I'm still ignorant) could you email me? Thanks. -- Ray Shea UniSQL, Inc. unisql!ray@cs.utexas.edu DoD #0372 : Team Twinkie : '88 Hawk GT ",8 "Re: What is Zero dB???? Joseph Chiu (josephc@cco.caltech.edu) wrote: : sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes: : : >Similarly, people usually use dB for dBm. Another common mistake is spelling : >``db'' instead of ``dB'' as you did in your article. See the ``B'' is for : >``Bell'' company, the mother of AT&T and should be capitalized. : : Thus, a deciBell (deci-, l., tenth of + Bell) is a fractional part of the : original Bell. For example, SouthWestern Bell is a deciBell. Out of what hat did you pull this one? dB is a ratio not an RBOC! : And the measure of current, Amp, is actually named after both the AMP company : and the Amphenol company. Both companies revolutionized electronics by : simulatenously realizing that the performance of connectors and sockets : were affected by the amount of current running through the wires. Sorry. The unit for current is the AMPERE which is the name of a french-man named AMPERE who studied electrical current. The term AMP is just an abbreviation of it. The company AMP came after the AMPERE unit was already in use. : The Ohmite company was the first to characterize resistances by numbers, thus : our use of the Ohms... I don't know about this one, but it doesn't sound right. : : Alexander Graham Bell, actually, is where Bell came from... Well you got one thing right! : : : : Actually, Bel refers : : > With highest regards, : > Babak Sehari. : : >-- : -- : Joseph Chiu | josephc@cco.caltech.edu ""OS/2: You gotta get this thing!"" : MSC 380 - Caltech | : Pasadena, CA 91126 | OS/2: The operating system of tomorrow, today. : +1 818 449 5457 | Greg Moffatt Bell-Northern Research Inc., Ottawa Canada ""My opinions; not BNR's"" ",12 "Re: BMW MOA members read this! karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr) writes: ]""Get the organization to act on it"" is easy to say, but says little ]about what one really can and should do. What the organization ]actually will do is largely determined by the president and directors, ]as far as I can see. That's what makes it so important to vote in an ]election of officers. if I remember right, I heard that in the last election, only 18% of the members actually cast votes. I wonder if the current board and their friends and relatives make up 18% of the membership :-) :-) I certainly plan on staying with the club long enough to vote and to see the results. ]It does strike me that the BMWMOA is a lot less politically active (in ]the state and national arenas, not infighting) than other M/C ]organizations. Should we change this? Or just join the other groups ]that already are in politics? I wouldn't support the MOA becoming politically active in that sense. the AMA already knows how to do that and I'd rather see the MOA support the AMA in a manner that the *AMA* needs. I think that more could be accomplished from one strong front rather than two not neccessarily coordinated ones. -- Joe Senner joe@rider.cactus.org Austin Area Ride Mailing List ride@rider.cactus.org Texas SplatterFest Mailing List fest@rider.cactus.org ",8 "Re: Question/Suggestion for Everyone - Please Read > >If both paries do this, then the transaction will obviously >be COD. This allows both parties to exercise the amount of >trust they see fit. COD is fine until the buyer opens the box to find they paid 150.00 for a brick. Or if it the seller allows for a personal check to be used on a COD it's fine till a stop payment is made. There are few methods to protect both buyer and seller in any sort of transaction. Even with merchants and customers there are problems...stolen credit cards, chargebacks, no return policies and getting the wrong item, etc. About the only protection available to to do business with someone you trust....someone who has been around for a while. Jeff ________________________________________________________________________ Jeff Freeman 1-800-GO-PORCH Toll-Free Front Porch Computers 1-706-695-1888 Rt 2 Box 2178 1-706-695-1990 Chatsworth, GA 30705 75260,21 Compuserve ID # Internet: jfreeman@frontporch.win.net ________________________________________________________________________ ",6 "Page numbering problem with WFW & Canon BJ10e I am using WFW 2.0c with a Canon BJ10e. The printer driver is that which comes with Windows 3.1. Unfortatunately, I am having a problem with printing page numbers on the bottom of the page. I can print page number on the top of the page, but not on the bottom. Has anybody had a similar problem and/or does anybody have a solution for such a problem. Thanks pwoodcoc@business.uwo.ca pwoodcoc@sms.business.uwo.ca (C. Patrick Woodcock) Western Business School -- London, Ontario ",2 "Re: some thoughts. In article , bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes: > First I want to start right out and say that I'm a Christian. It That's okay: it's what all the rest of them who come on here say... > makes sense to be one. Have any of you read Tony Campollo's book- liar, > lunatic, or the real thing? (I might be a little off on the title, but he > writes the book. Anyway he was part of an effort to destroy Christianity, > in the process he became a Christian himself. This isn't the guy who was a lawyer was he? Could you give more info on this guy (never mind- I'm sure there will be PLENTY of responses to this post, and it will appear there) > The arguements he uses I am summing up. The book is about whether > Jesus was God or not. I know many of you don't believe, but listen to a > different perspective for we all have something to gain by listening to what > others have to say. This is true. Make sure it is true for ALL cases. > The book says that Jesus was either a liar, or he was crazy ( a Why not both? ;) > modern day Koresh) or he was actually who he said he was. > Some reasons why he wouldn't be a liar are as follows. Who would > die for a lie? Wouldn't people be able to tell if he was a liar? Why not die for a lie? If you were poverty stricken and alunatic, sounds perfecetly reasoable to me. As to whether the societal dregs he had for followers would be able to tell if he was a liar or not, not necessarily. Even if he died for what he believed in, this still makes him completely selfish. Like us all. So what's the difference. People > gathered around him and kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing > someone who was or had been healed. Call me a fool, but I believe he did > heal people. There is no historical proof of this (see earlier threads). Besides, he (or at least his name), have been the cause of enough deaths to make up for whatever healing he gave. > Niether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation be drawn > to someone who was crazy. SIEG HEIL!! >Very doubtful, in fact rediculous. For example > anyone who is drawn to David Koresh is obviously a fool, logical people see > this right away. > Who is David Koresh? I am curious. Therefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the > real thing. How does this follow? Your definition of lunatic (and ""disproof"" thereof seem rather... uhhh.. SHAKY) > Some other things to note. He fulfilled loads of prophecies in > the psalms, Isaiah and elsewhere in 24 hrs alone. This in his betrayal > and Crucifixion. I don't have my Bible with me at this moment, next time I > write I will use it. Good idea. > I don't think most people understand what a Christian is. It > is certainly not what I see a lot in churches. Naturally, those or not TRUE Christians, right? ;) > Rather I think it > should be a way of life, and a total sacrafice of everything for God's > sake. He loved us enough to die and save us so we should do the > same. Hey we can't do it, God himself inspires us to turn our lives > over to him. That's tuff and most people don't want to do it, to be a > real Christian would be something for the strong to persevere at. But > just like weight lifting or guitar playing, drums, whatever it takes > time. We don't rush it in one day, Christianity is your whole life. > It is not going to church once a week, or helping poor people once in > a while. We box everything into time units. Such as work at this > time, sports, Tv, social life. God is above these boxes and should be > carried with us into all these boxes that we have created for > ourselves. Someone else handle this, I don't know if it's worth it... *sigh* ******************************************************************************** * Adam John Cooper ""Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings * * who thought themselves good simply because * * acooper@macalstr.edu they had no claws."" * ******************************************************************************** ",0 "Re: Is it good that Jesus died? sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: > >I've done all those things, and I've regretted it, and I learned >a lesson or two. So far an aspirin, a good talk with your wife, >or a one week vacation has cured me -- no need for group therapy >or strange religions! Um, Kent... just what *have* you been doing with his wife?!? ;-D -- _/_/_/ Brian Kendig Je ne suis fait comme aucun /_/_/ bskendig@netcom.com de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire _/_/ n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent. / The meaning of life Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre. / is that it ends. -- Rousseau ",19 " ORION space drive An excellent reference for non-technical readers on the ORION system is ""The Starflight Handbook"", by Eugene Mallove and Gregory Matloff, ISBN 0-471-61912-4. The relevant chapter is 4: Nuclear Pulse Propulsion. The book also contains lots of technical references for the more academically inclined. Enjoy! --- C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/ C/ Nathan F. Wallace C/C/ ""Reality Is"" C/ C/ e-mail: wallacen@cs.colostate.edu C/C/ ancient Alphaean proverb C/ C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/ ",14 "Re: Too many MRIs? In article <1993Apr12.165410.4206@kestrel.edu> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes: > >I recall reading somewhere, during my youth, in some science popularization >book, that whyle isotope changes don't normally affect chemistry, a consumption >of only heavy water would be fatal, and that seeds watered only with heavy >water do not sprout. Does anyone know about this? > I also heard this. I always thought it might make a good eposide of 'Columbo' for someone to be poisoned with heavy water - it wouldn't show up in any chemical test. ",13 "FOR SALE: 550 ZEPHYR Hi boys and girls. I just bought a Beemer R80GS and realized abruptly that I am a grad student. I first sold my truck yesterday but I need to sell my Zephyr too. If I can sell it this month, great ... insurance and tags both run out in a couple of weeks. Otherwise I'll tag and insure it and see what happens. It's a very sweet bike. 6100 miles, almost all highway (AZ-WY-CO last summer, plus some great rides between here and the Border. Purchased new exactly one year ago (Apr '92), it's a '90 model. It has a good fairing and a luggage rack. Red; very clean. Perfect maintenance, no bullshit. I'll spare any further details other than to say (1) I want to keep it, and (2) somebody 5'7"" +/- 5"" will fit it like a charm. Not a bike for big people, but not a small bike. Standard, upright positioning and good-looking. Smooth power, great brakes, good Karma. - Erik /-----b-o-d-y---i-s---t-h-e---b-i-k-e----------------------------\ | | | DoD# 88888 asphaug@hindmost.lpl.arizona.edu | | '90 Kawi 550 Zephyr (Erik Asphaug) | | '86 BMW R80GS | \-----------------------s-o-u-l---i-s---t-h-e---r-i-d-e-r--------/ ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <93112.164435J5J@psuvm.psu.edu> John A. Johnson writes: #In article <1r39kh$itp@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank #O'Dwyer) says: #> #[ . . .] #>Specifically, I'd like to know what relativism concludes when two #>people grotesquely disagree. Is it: #> #>(a) Both are right #> #>(b) One of them is wrong, and sometimes (though perhaps rarely) we have a #> pretty good idea who it is #> #>(c) One of them is wrong, but we never have any information as to who, so #> we make our best guess if we really must make a decision. #> #>(d) The idea of a ""right"" moral judgement is meaningless (implying that #> whether peace is better than war, e.g., is a meaningless question, #> and need not be discussed for it has no correct answer) #> #>(e) Something else. A short, positive assertion would be nice. #> #>As I hope you can tell, (b) and (c) are actually predicated on #>the assumption that values are real - so statements like these #>_can't_ consistently derive from the relativist assumption that values #>aren't part of objective reality. # #I am a relativist who would like to answer your question, but the way you #phrase the question makes it unanswerable. The concepts of ""right"" #and ""wrong"" (or ""correct/incorrect"" or ""true/false"") belong to the #domain of epistemological rather than moral questions. It makes no #sense to ask if a moral position is right or wrong, although it is #legitimate to ask if it is good (or better than another position). # #Let me illustrate this point by looking at the psychological derivatives #of epistemology and ethics: perception and motivation, respectively. #One can certainly ask if a percept is ""right"" (correct, true, #veridical) or ""wrong"" (incorrect, false, illusory). But it makes little #sense to ask if a motive is true or false. On the other hand, it is #strange to ask whether a percept is morally good or evil, but one can #certainly ask that question about motives. # #Therefore, your suggested answers (a)-(c) simply can't be considered: #they assume you can judge the correctness of a moral judgment. True, by ""correct"" I mean ""the thing valued is really good"". I should use evaluative terms, but I don't always. Sorry for the sloppy phrasing. Can you answer if ""betterness"" is used in in place of @correctness""? # #Now the problem with (d) is that it is double-barrelled: I agree with #the first part (that the ""rightness"" of a moral position is a #meaningless question), for the reasons stated above. But that is #irrelevant to the alleged implication (not an implication at all) that #one cannot feel peace is better than war. I certainly can make #value judgments (bad, better, best) without asserting the ""correctness"" #of the position. You can never say that the thing is @really better@, or ""more likely to better, from all realistic frames of reference""? # #Sorry for the lengthy dismissal of (a)-(d). My short (e) answer is #that when two individuals grotesquely disagree on a moral issue, #neither is right (correct) or wrong (incorrect). They simply hold #different moral values (feelings). This is where my difficulty arises, though I'm starting to get in now. The thing is, there isn't anything simple about different moral values, when those values are human rights. #""A ruthless, doctrinaire avoidance of degeneracy is a degeneracy of # another sort. Getting drunk and picking up bar-ladies and writing # metaphysics is a part of life."" - from _Lila_ by R. Pirsig Peculiar - you're getting relativism from this, I'm getting objectivism :-) Good book, though, and a good quote. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Re: Pantheism & Environmentalism In article Steve.Hayes@f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org writes: I realize I'm entering this discussion rather late, but I do have one question. Wasn't it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a pentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the interior who saw no problem with deforestation since we were ""living in the last days"" and ours would be the last generation to see the redwoods anyway? -- Terrance Heath heath@athena.cs.uga.edu ****************************************************************** YOUR COMFORT IS MY SILENCE!!!!! ACT-UP! FIGHT BACK! TALK BACK! ****************************************************************** ",15 "Re: Expose Events Please excuse my previous posting. It was appended to this thread by accident. --> Robert ",5 "386dx 20mhz motherboard for sale ",6 "RGB/HLS/HSV conversion routines wanted Hi, I'm looking for RGB (cube) --> HLS (double hexcone) --> HSV (cylinder) conversion routines. I have RGB <--> HSV, but miss the HLS <--> RGB/HSV. PLEASE E-MAIL ME DIRECTLY, AS I DO NOT GET THIS NEWSGROUP AT MY SITE -------------------------------------------------------------------- Any and all help wil be greatly appreciated. Gert. -- o Gert Bultman Phone (..31) 70 3744956 o / | \ SNAIL Rijkswaterstaat, Dienst Getijdewateren, Afd. AOCT / | \ o--o--o MAIL: POSTBUS 20907, 2500 EX The Hague, The Netherlands o--o--o \ | / \ | / o ( --- Please mark all personal mail ""PERSOONLIJK"" --- ) o ",1 "Re: Turkey-Cyprus-Bosnia-Serbia-Greece (Armenia-Azeris) In article <1993Apr15.174657.6176@news.uiowa.edu>, mau@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Mau Napoleon) writes: > From article <1993Apr15.092101@IASTATE.EDU>, by tankut@IASTATE.EDU (Sabri T Atan): > > Well, Panos, Mr. Tamamidis?, the way you put it it is only the Turks > > who bear the responsibility of the things happening today. That is hard to > > believe for somebody trying to be objective. > > When it comes to conflicts like our countries having you cannot > > blame one side only, there always are bad guys on both sides. > > What were you doing on Anatolia after the WW1 anyway? > > Do you think it was your right to be there? > > There were a couple millions of Greeks living in Asia Minor until 1923. > Someone had to protect them. If not us who?? > > > I am not saying that conflicts started with that. It is only > > not one side being the aggressive and the ither always suffering. > > It is sad that we (both) still are not trying to compromise. > > I remember the action of the Turkish government by removing the > > visa requirement for greeks to come to Turkey. I thought it > > was a positive attempt to make the relations better. > > > Compromise on what, the invasion of Cyprus, the involment of Turkey in > Greek politics, the refusal of Turkey to accept 12 miles of territorial > waters as stated by international law, the properties of the Greeks of > Konstantinople, the ownership of the islands in the Greek lake,sorry, Aegean. > > There are some things on which there can not be a compromise. > > > > The Greeks I mentioned who wouldn't talk to me are educated > > people. They have never met me but they know! I am bad person > > because I am from Turkey. Politics is not my business, and it is > > not the business of most of the Turks. When it comes to individuals > > why the hatred? > > Any person who supports the policies of the Turkish goverment directly or > indirecly is a ""bad"" person. > It is not your nationality that makes you bad, it is your support of the > actions of your goverment that make you ""bad"". > People do not hate you because of who you are but because of what you > are. You are a supporter of the policies of the Turkish goverment and > as a such you must pay the price. > > > So that makes me think that there is some kind of > > brainwashing going on in Greece. After all why would an educated person > > treat every person from a nation the same way? can you tell me about your > > history books and things you learn about Greek-Turkish > > encounters during your schooling. > > take it easy! > > > > -- > > Tankut Atan > > tankut@iastate.edu > > > > ""Achtung, baby!"" > > You do not need brainwashing to turn people against the Turks. Just talk to > Greeks, Arabs, Slavs, Kurds and all other people who had the luck to be under > Turkish occupation. > They will talk to you about murders,rapes,distruction. > > You do not learn about Turks from history books, you learn about them from > people who experienced first hand Turkish friendliness. > > Napoleon Well, Napoleon. It is your kind of people who are preventing peace on the world. First of all, you didn't answer the question I asked at the end of my posting. And then you told me some bullshit throughout your posting which had no positive point about the issue, filled with hatred, and filled with emotions. Why am I doing this? Forget it, I don't think you are worth it to discuss the issue. -- Tankut Atan tankut@iastate.edu ""Achtung, baby!"" ",17 "Looking for printer driver I'm looking for a c.itoh printer driver for Windows 3.1. Does anybody happen to know where I could find such a beast? Thanks in advance, Jerry -- ""Look ma! No .signature!"" ",2 "Re: Moral relativism -- what if we all agree? (was Re: After 2000 etc) In article <930426.140835.4f1.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew writes: >> By which I mean, are you >> stretching possible to include events such as the atoms in my terminal >> switching places so that the terminal turns upside down, or do you >> think it likely that circumstances will arise in which terrorism is >> superior to peace. > >I think that circumstances have already arisen where terrorism would have >been better than peace. Better in terms of numbers of innocent people >killed. Assuming it was successful terrorism, of course. > Indeed. Successful terrorism is called *revolution* and is admired by history. Unsuccessful terrorism is just lowly, cowardly terroism. Just an observation, Phil Trodwell *** This space ***| ""I'd be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle *** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not *** (cheap) ***| this radio!"" -Hunter S. Thompson ",0 "Centris 610/tms 120 drive I recently purchased a Centris 610 and am having difficulty getting my computer to recognize my hard disk drive (external) Using both the disk uitily of TMS (Diskwriter) and Jasmine's software, neither one will show the drive. The drive is the only device connected to the scuzzi port. I cant find the manual to the tms pro 120 and seem to remember that it is ""terminated"". Is there something else that I am doing (or not doing) that does not allow my 610 to recognize my external disk drive?. thanks in advance for the information. -- Eugene E. Rosen GENIE: erosen 22 Riverside Road COMPUSERVE:74066,3444 Sandy Hook, Ct. 06482-1213 AOL: Gene Rosen ",4 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is I see the point on falsifying God as per the scientific method. A question I've always wanted to ask is this: When scientists say that the second law does not apply to the earth they say it is because it is not a closed system, i.e. there is energy coming in from an outside force -- namely, the sun. Is the universe a closed or open system, and how could either be proven? If it is a closed system, have you been to the outside to look in? If it is open, how do you know? MAC -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",19 "S3 86c805 w/2MB = 1024x768x32k colors = Orchid Pipe Dream? Hi I have an Orchid Fahrenheit VLB with 2MB of DRAM. It is an S3 86c805 based card. I had a problem for a while after installing my second meg of DRAM for the video, and thanks to Orchid, I got a fix from their tech support (it was jumper settings not given in the ordinary manual. I assume it would come with memory ordered from them, so I guess I should be glad they didn't just say ""Buy the memory from us"" or something like that.) The one thing that I was puzzled by was why there was not a 1024x768x32k color mode on the thing, either in full screen or enlarged desktop mode. My ATI Ultra Plus can handle that, given 2MB of memory. All the 2MB buys you on the Fahrenheit is 1280x1024x256. Just ONE more mode. GEEZ. Had I known, I wouldn't have bothered. I asked them why, and all I got was ""Your point is well taken, but Orchid's software developers are busy with other projects."" So, to get to the point, finally, ARE there any s3 86c805 drivers out there that can handle high res hicolor modes? I'd love to get another card, but perhaps it will have to wait until the next generation of cards comes out, since this card came bundled with my system and it's not so easy to exchange these things unless they're broken. If you want these modes, steer away from Orchids s3 86c805 cards (ie. VLB or VA/VLB), at least until their developers are ""less busy"". If the magazines are to believed, I've only seen one s3 86c805 product thus far which can handle 1024x768x32k color (Genoa?), although evenn that might be a misprint. Please, if there are generic or semi-generic drivers out there, let me know where I can get them. 800x600x32k is OK, but I coulda gotten that with my ATI VGA Wonder XL. Thanks. donyee@athena.mit.edu ",3 "Re: Astronomy Program In article <28641@galaxy.ucr.edu> datadec@ucrengr.ucr.edu (kevin marcus) writes: >Are there any public domain or shareware astronomy programs which will >map out the sky at any given time, and allow you to locate planets, nebulae, >and so forth? If so, is there any ftp site where I can get one? There are several star map programs available. Your job is to choose that you like. Try anonymous-FTP from: ftp.funet.fi:pub/astro/pc/stars pc/solar mac amiga atari regards, -Veikko- ",14 "Re: Arrhythmia In article <1993Apr22.205509.23198@husc3.harvard.edu> perry1@husc10.harvard.edu (Alexis Perry) writes: >In article <1993Apr22.031423.1@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu> u96_averba@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu writes: >>doctors said that he could die from it, and the medication caused > Is it that serious? My EKG often comes back with a few irregular >beats. Another question: Is a low blood potassium level very bad? My >doctor seems concerned, but she tends to worry too much in general. The term arrhythmia is usually used to encompass a wide range of abnormal heart rhythms (cardiac dysrhythmias). Some of them are very serious while others are completely benign. Having ""a few irregular beats"" on an EKG could be serious depending on what those beats were and when they occurred, or could be of no significance. Low blood potassium levels probably predispose people with underlying heart disease to develop arrhythmias. Very low potassium levels are clearly dangerous, but it is not clear how much of a problem low-end-of-normal levels are: a lot of cardiologists seem to treat anyone with even a mildly low-normal potassium level. -- David Rind rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu ",13 "Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. I can see it now emblazened across the evening sky -- THIS SPACE FOR RENT ",14 "text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption Note: This file will also be available via anonymous file transfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and via the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717. --------------------------------------------------- THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 16, 1993 STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY The President today announced a new initiative that will bring the Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary program to improve the security and privacy of telephone communications while meeting the legitimate needs of law enforcement. The initiative will involve the creation of new products to accelerate the development and use of advanced and secure telecommunications networks and wireless communications links. For too long there has been little or no dialogue between our private sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the tension between economic vitality and the real challenges of protecting Americans. Rather than use technology to accommodate the sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and law enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against industry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement. Sophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to protect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to protect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption technology can help Americans protect business secrets and the unauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used by terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals. A state-of-the-art microcircuit called the ""Clipper Chip"" has been developed by government engineers. The chip represents a new approach to encryption technology. It can be used in new, relatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to an ordinary telephone. It scrambles telephone communications using an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in commercial use today. This new technology will help companies protect proprietary information, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations and prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted electronically. At the same time this technology preserves the ability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to intercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals. A ""key-escrow"" system will be established to ensure that the ""Clipper Chip"" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding Americans. Each device containing the chip will have two unique 2 ""keys,"" numbers that will be needed by authorized government agencies to decode messages encoded by the device. When the device is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately in two ""key-escrow"" data bases that will be established by the Attorney General. Access to these keys will be limited to government officials with legal authorization to conduct a wiretap. The ""Clipper Chip"" technology provides law enforcement with no new authorities to access the content of the private conversations of Americans. To demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the Attorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new devices. In addition, respected experts from outside the government will be offered access to the confidential details of the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report their findings. The chip is an important step in addressing the problem of encryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the privacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield criminals and terrorists. We need the ""Clipper Chip"" and other approaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access to the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it to hide their illegal activities. In order to assess technology trends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system), the President has directed government agencies to develop a comprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates: -- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to employ voice or data encryption for business purposes; -- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone calls and data, under proper court or other legal order, when necessary to protect our citizens; -- the effective and timely use of the most modern technology to build the National Information Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and the competitiveness of American industry in the global marketplace; and -- the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export high technology products. The President has directed early and frequent consultations with affected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the privacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed. 3 The Administration is committed to working with the private sector to spur the development of a National Information Infrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer technologies to give Americans unprecedented access to information. This infrastructure of high-speed networks (""information superhighways"") will transmit video, images, HDTV programming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone system transmits voice. Since encryption technology will play an increasingly important role in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act quickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding its use. The Administration is committed to policies that protect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting them from those who break the law. Further information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet. The provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new encryption technology are also available. For additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of Standards and Technology, (301) 975-2758. --------------------------------- QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S TELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE Q: Does this approach expand the authority of government agencies to listen in on phone conversations? A: No. ""Clipper Chip"" technology provides law enforcement with no new authorities to access the content of the private conversations of Americans. Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to decipher the message? A: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They would then present documentation of this authorization to the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key escrow system. Q: Who will run the key-escrow data banks? A: The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent entities. At this point, the Department of Justice and the Administration have yet to determine which agencies will oversee the key-escrow data banks. Q: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure how strong the security is? A: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption systems readily available today. While the algorithm will remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow system, we are willing to invite an independent panel of cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all potential users that there are no unrecognized vulnerabilities. Q: Whose decision was it to propose this product? A: The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the Commerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in this decision. This approach has been endorsed by the President, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet officials. Q: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry? A: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify as we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the decisions related to this initiative. Q: Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers? A: The government designed and developed the key access encryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the microcircuits to product manufacturers. Product manufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip manufacturer that produces them. Q: Who provides the ""Clipper Chip""? A: Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance, California, and will sell the chip to encryption device manufacturers. The programming function could be licensed to other vendors in the future. Q: How do I buy one of these encryption devices? A: We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating the ""Clipper Chip"" into their devices. Q: If the Administration were unable to find a technological solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more powerful encryption devices? A: This is a fundamental policy question which will be considered during the broad policy review. The key escrow mechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product that is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive than others readily available today, but it is just one piece of what must be the comprehensive approach to encryption technology, which the Administration is developing. The Administration is not saying, ""since encryption threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement, we will prohibit it outright"" (as some countries have effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that ""every American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an unbreakable commercial encryption product."" There is a false ""tension"" created in the assessment that this issue is an ""either-or"" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be, and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned, balanced approach such as is proposed with the ""Clipper Chip"" and similar encryption techniques. Q: What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton Administration's policy toward encryption will differ from that of the Bush Administration? A: It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption technology in telecommunications and computing and are committed to working with industry and public-interest groups to find innovative ways to protect Americans' privacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law enforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime and terrorism. Q: Will the devices be exportable? Will other devices that use the government hardware? A: Voice encryption devices are subject to export control requirements. Case-by-case review for each export is required to ensure appropriate use of these devices. The same is true for other encryption devices. One of the attractions of this technology is the protection it can give to U.S. companies operating at home and abroad. With this in mind, we expect export licenses will be granted on a case-by-case basis for U.S. companies seeking to use these devices to secure their own communications abroad. We plan to review the possibility of permitting wider exportability of these products. ",11 "Victims of various 'Good Fight's In article <9454@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, naren@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Naren Bala) writes: > LIST OF KILLINGS IN THE NAME OF RELIGION > 1. Iran-Iraq War: 1,000,000 > 2. Civil War in Sudan: 1,000,000 > 3, Riots in India-Pakistan in 1947: 1,000,000 > 4. Massacares in Bangladesh in 1971: 1,000,000 > 5. Inquistions in America in 1500s: x million (x=??) > 6. Crusades: ?? 7. Massacre of Jews in WWII: 6.3 million 8. Massacre of other 'inferior races' in WWII: 10 million 9. Communist purges: 20-30 million? [Socialism is more or less a religion] 10. Catholics V Protestants : quite a few I'd imagine 11. Recent goings on in Bombay/Iodia (sp?) area: ?? 12. Disease introduced to Brazilian * oher S.Am. tribes: x million > -- Naren The Desert Brat -- John J McVey, Elc&Eltnc Eng, Whyalla, Uni S Australia, ________ 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au T.S.A.K.C. \/Darwin o\ For replies, mail to whjjm@wh.whyalla.unisa.edu.au /\________/ Disclaimer: Unisa hates my opinions. bb bb +------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |""It doesn't make a rainbow any less beautiful that we | ""God's name is smack | |understand the refractive mechanisms that chance to | for some."" | |produce it."" - Jim Perry, perry@dsinc.com | - Alice In Chains | +------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ ",0 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card I HATE long postings, but this turned out to be rather lengthy.... Overall Crime rate: It fell....just like that... Acquiring weapons in Norway: You can buy (almost) all kinds of weapons in Norway, BUT you must have a permit, and a good reason to get the permit.... If I would like to have a handgun, i would have to get an gun-licence from the police and to be a member of a gun-club. The police would check my criminal records for any SERIOUS crimes and/or records of SERIOUS mental diseases. Now, if a got my licence, I would have to be an active member of the gun -club for 6 months BEFORE I could collect my gun. It's a little like getting a drivers licence isn't it ??? You have to prove that you CAN drive before you are allowed to... Use of guns in crimes (in Norway): Some crimes are commited with guns that have been in the owners 'arms' for a long time, but these are rather the exeption. Most criminals accuire guns to use them in crimes, and mostly short time befor the crime. Use of knives: It IS allowed to cary knifes in public, but not in your belt or 'open'. You (Americans) think it's ok to have a gun, but not to carry it open in public -rigth ?? Scandinavians ARE 'aggressive': We northeners are not as hot-livered as southeners, but when we decide to take action we DO. Ask ANY historian or millitary with an knowledge of europe.... (Or ask any German who served in Norway in WW2.....) Individual vs masses: Yes the individual is more important than the masses, but only to some extent.... Your criminal laws are to protect the individuals who makes the masses ?? What happens when the rigths of some individuals affects the rights of all the others ?? The issue: I believe the issue is GUNS, and gun-legislation. We shouldn't mix weapons and items that can serve as one.... IF i lived in Amerika I would probably have a gun to defend myselfe in HOME. But should it have to be like that ?? Do you think it's wise to sell guns like candy (some states do...) ?? If you believe it's smart/neccacery to have drivers-licence WHY do you think it should be free to buy guns ?? Disclaim-her: I'm not a pacifist or anti gun. I would defend my home, loved ones and country, but I don't view guns as neccities or toys. I HAVE done army service, and HAVE used a variaty of weapons, but wouldn't want to have one for self defence or because they 'feel good'.... This is not a .signature. It's marly a computergenerated text to waste bandwith and to bring down the evil Internet. Thomas Parsli thomasp@ifi.uio.no ",16 "Re: Proof of the Viability of Gun Control [alt.drugs and alt.conspiracy removed from newsgroups line.] In article neal@magpie.linknet.com (Neal) writes: > Once the National Guard has been called into federal service, >it is under the command of the present. Tha National Guard, though >defined as the ""Militia"" in the statutes, is actually a reserve component >of the United State Army, and was formed pursuant to the power of Congress >to raise and support Armies. That's the really cute thing about saying the 2nd amendment only covers the national guard, because that would mean that it essentially prohibits the federal government from disarming a branch of the federal government. Sounds like a real limit to federal power to me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - ""I still remember the way you laughed, the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't love me anymore."" - ""Weird Al"" ",18 "Proof Of Christian Kultural Oppression Was Subject: Re: Gilligan's island, den of iniquity In article 5869@nuscc.nus.sg, matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes: >beb@pt.com (Bruce Buck) writes: >: In article <1993Apr13.011033.23123@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes: >: >: >> Gilligan = Sloth >: >: >> Skipper = Anger >: >: >> Thurston Howell III = Greed >: >: >> Lovey Howell = Gluttony >: >: >> Ginger = Lust >: >: >> Professor = Pride >: >: >> Mary Ann = Envy >: > >: >Assorted Monkeys= Secular Humanism >: >: Assorted Headhunters - Godless, Heathen Savagery >: Russian Agent who looks like Gilligan - Godless Communism >: Japanese Sailor - Godless Barbarism >: Walter Pigeon - Godless Bird Turd >: The Mosquitos (Bingo, Bango, Bongo, Irving) - Godless Rock'n'Roll >: Harold Heckuba (Phil Silvers) - Hollywood Hedonism >: John McGiver - Butterfly flicking >: Tonga, the Fake Apeman - Deceit, Lust >: Eva Grubb - Deceit, lust Need we way anything MORE about how the Hideous Hand of the Evil Right Wing Religious Fanatics have TRIED to corrupt the Moral Fibre of American Children using the New TV Media to implant Ideologically Dangerous IDEAS into the Heads of Innocent Children. ciao drieux ps: Clearly it is TIME to support Madaline Murry O'Hare's Quest to stop this FORM of Christian Prosylatizing........ --- ""All Hands to the Big Sea of COMedy! All Hands to the Big Sea of COMedy!"" -Last Call of the Wild of the Humour Lemmings ",19 "Re: Space spinn offs I just wanted to point out, that Teflon wasn't from the space program. It was from the WWII nuclear weapons development program. Pipes in the system for fractioning and enriching uranium had to be lined with it. Uranium Hexafloride was the chemical they turned the pitchblend into for enrichment. It is massively corrosive. Even to Stainless steels. Hence the need for a very inert substaance to line the pipes with. Teflon has all its molecular sockets bound up already, so it is very unreactive. My 2 sense worth. Bill ",14 "Re: New Funding Plan for the Military In article , drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes (about the armed services): > > ps: Maybe even privatize the organization, or consider > 'out sourcing' various aspects of the DOD as a part of > the current 'Down Sizing' - Who Knows, Maybe if we > Finally Allowed to ""Free Market"" to take control, we will > no longer have a military run by the same folks who are > running the post office..... > > pps: slow down, and think before you flame, Rhetoric is an ArtForm. Well, uh, actually I agree. -- Jeffrey S. Medkeff Bitnet- medkeffjs@hiramb PO Box 1098 Internet- medkeffjs@hiramb.hiram.edu Hiram, OH 44234 Pale Ebenezer thought it wrong to fight. But U.S.A. Roaring Bill (who killed him) thought it right. ",18 "Moonbase race From: Gene Wright >With the continuin talk about the ""End of the Space Age"" and complaints >by government over the large cost, why not try something I read about >that might just work. >Announce that a reward of $1 billion would go to the first corporation >who successfully keeps at least 1 person alive on the moon for a year. >Then you'd see some of the inexpensive but not popular technologies begin >to be developed. THere'd be a different kind of space race then! I'll say! Imagine that there were a couple groups up there, maybe landing a few weeks apart. The year-mark starts coming on for the first group. Isn't a billion pretty good incentive to take a shot at a potential winner? ""Yeah, that's a shame that Team A's life support gave out so close to the deadline. Thanks for the billion."" On the other hand, if Apollo cost ~25billion, for a few days or weeks in space, in 1970 dollars, then won't the reward have to be a lot more than only 1 billion to get any takers? -Tommy Mac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\ As the radius of vision increases, 18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ the circumference of mystery grows. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",14 "Re: Question about Virgin Mary >As the moderator noted, I think you mean the Assumption. Catholics >believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary went to Heaven body *and* soul at >the end of her life. This is unusual because the normal course of >events is for your body to decay in the grave and stay that way until >the Resurrection of the Dead. Well, it wasn't that way for Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were translated directly into heaven. It's beyond my grasp why some object that Mary, who was far greater than either Enoch or Elijah, should not benefit from the same privelege they recieved. She was after all, Mother of God, full of grace, and immaculate. >Historically, belief in the Assumption can be found in the writings of >St. Gregory of Tours (late 6th century). And in St. Germain of Constantinople and St. John of Damascus, and in St. Andrew of Crete, among others. And it should be noted that the Monophysite Chruches of Egypt and Syria also hold to this belief as part of divine revelation, even though they broke away from the unity of the Chruch in 451 AD by rejecting the Council of Chalcedon. It might be argued by some Protestants that the Catholics and Orthodox made this belief up, but the Monophysites, put a big hole in that notion, as they also hold the belief, and they split from the Chruch before the belief was first annunciated in writing (as far as is known, much has been lost from the time of the Fathers). Andy Byler ",15 "Re: Societal basis for morality References: <4fm9iYO00iV303voYt@andrew.cmu.edu> In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >I'll yield the discussion on absolute morality until I can think of another way >to discuss it. If you're interested in a change, here's an idea. Do you believe in absolute morality? And do you have absolute knowledge? Mere mortal you? And if you claim that your God has absolute knowledge, then you have have absolute knowledge of that? If you read the Bible and claim that it is the Word of God, and in it is contained the absolute moral code you ascribe to, but the prophets, no matter how divinely inspired are not gods but mere fallable mortals, then how can you be absolutely sure that they having heard the Word of God, have got it right? Also, you read their words in translation which invariably introduces errors of nuance and usage, and then how do you know that you got the right message? I assert that you do not, and that you do not have absolute knowledge of anything, including absolute morals. The only way you can assert such things is through appeal to prejudice via appeal by force of authority through yourself or a group you have aligned yourself to. >If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? Because social pressure is the most powerful force known to man. How can you disprove a contention that the richeousness of established religion is anything other than social convention? One way is to assert that there are moral universals. But that is not the same thing as asserting that these universials owe their origen to trancendance or the supernatural or to dieties. >What right do >we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally mandated morality? We expect empathy from our fellow man. We expect to raise each generation with values that we live by, those which assure that mistakes we have made are not repeated. Do you think that mere authority checks all tendancies which are disruptive of civilized life? I think not! In fact authority is power, and power corrupts. The most powerful tend to think that they are above the law that applies to everybody else. Religious authority, theocarcy, has not mitigated this any better than other power structures on this score and it seems that because there are no checks on power concentrated in clergy or nobility that the abuses recorded by history are greater. We live and teach morals by setting an example, starting in the home. This does not come from books or authority figures in soceity. If people are weak or confused at the present time it is not because the breakup of the family has been precipitated by some mysterious moral decidance that redidication to traditional formulas will repair. That is but magical and simplistic thinking. We need to look at forces in the way we live, even the good things that happen in our present culture, that are weakening the family as the primary means we have to teach children values. Of course people are trying to have the community do things that once were done in the family alone. This may not be as effective. We need to look at this. >Pardon the extremism, but couldn't I murder your ""brother"" and say > that I was >exercising my rights as I saw them, was doing what felt good, didn't want >anyone forcing their morality on me, or I don't follow your ""morality"" ? Laying down the law, and with teeth, doesn't stop the crazy man from murdering your brother despite the morality or the law. It may help you with dealing promptly with him after the fact, but it may not be very effective for preventing mental illness or cracy people from murduring. It is quite interesting how ineffective moral authoritarianism is in fact. It may work best in societies that are already sonmewhat isolated, that do not experience change, and have long standing traditions. In a basic way moral codes decrease the number of decisions people have to make everyday. In a real sense thay allow people to not have to think. That is OK when things are stable, but it becomes a problem when conditions change. This leads me to think that morals are not sumething fundemental, at least most of them, recalling that there are values all people seem to agree on, but mutate in response to outside political, economic, technical, and cultural influiences. Lately, I have come to regard people who speak like you with great suspicion, especially when they include the pharse ""for the children."". I think that such people are more of an imparative to want to control what others do and think than other more nobil pursuits, such as of the truth. Bruce Salem ",0 "Re: Branch Athiests Cult (was Rawlins debunks creationism) In article <1r9dd7INNqfk@ctron-news.ctron.com>, king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes: |> |> Let me try again. |> |> ""The doubt that has infiltrated the previous, smugly confident certitude |> of evolutionary biology has inflamed passions. There is lack of agreement |> even within warring camps. Sometimes it seems as if there are as many |> variations on each evolutionary theme as there are individual biologists."" |> |> Niles Eldridge (yes he's a paleontologist); Natural History; ""Evolutionary |> Housecleaning""; Feb 1982; pg. 78. It would probably help your education if you actually read some of Eldridge's books, instead of quoting excerpts from some fact sheet. Yes, Eldridge doesn't go along with gradualism 100%. However, in Time Frames he relates how one can sometimes trace the gradual development of a feature - in this case trilobite eye - over time scales as long as millions of years. jon. ",0 "Re: WD-40 as moisture repellant (was Lead Acid batteries & Concrete?) In article <7480241@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers) writes: >It isn't the average temperature that is the key factor here, but rather >which is better at transferring the heat out of the (presumably warmer >than ground temperature) battery... Uh, Bob, why is the battery warmer than ground temperature? On the time scales in question, and with the considerably reduced temperature swings several feet underground, there isn't going to be any major temperature difference between the battery and what it's sitting on. >... Question - why does a concrete floor feel cooler than the >surrounding dirt when you place your hand on it? Because the temperature of your hand, *unlike that of the battery*, is determined by the balance between internal heat production and external heat loss. You're feeling the greater rate of heat loss from an object (your hand) which is kept much warmer than its surroundings. In the case of an object with no significant internal heat production, this will affect how quickly it comes into equilibrium with its surroundings (if it started out not in equilibrium with them) but won't affect the final temperature. For the same reason, windchill affects whether you will freeze but not whether water will freeze. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",12 "Sega Genesis for sale w/Sonic 1/2 4 month old Sega Genesis, barely used, one controller, in original box, with Sonics 1 and 2. $130 gets the whole bundle shipped to you. Turns out they're not as addictive when they're yours. Anyway, mail me if you're interested in this marvel of modern technology. --- Andrew Boyko aboyko@dixie.com ",6 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? OK, I'VE GOT IT!!!!! Let's fight guns with guns. Yeah, that would help. ",16 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 In <1r0ms5$k65@ratatosk.uninett.no> joachim@kih.no (joachim lous) writes: >> Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from? >I don't know where Douglas Adams took it from, but I'm pretty sure he's >the one who launched it (in the Guide). Since then it's been showing up >all over the place. Douglas Adams once said (paraphrased from memory): ""I just picked it. It seemed like the sort of number you wouldn't be afraid to take home to meet your parents. Nice and even, perfectly normal."" -- Kevin Martin sigma@rahul.net ""I gotta get me another hat."" ",1 "Re: Israel's Expansion II In article <19APR93.22304462.0062@VM1.MCGILL.CA> B8HA@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (B8HA) writes: >So nice of you all to answer some questions. And it so nice that most >of you feel that it would be in your hearts to give the Palestinians >some land - most of you focus on the fact that Israel annexed all >this land and it is a kind gesture to give some of it back. Well, >I hope that after after a state run by Palestinians is established, >the first decision should be to make Jerusalem part of this state - >by annexing it of course. > >Steve Israel has not annexed any of the West Bank, just Jeruselum. Which will remain part of Israel forever! ",18 "Internal leak in carburetor Hi, My friend's 1983 Toyota Tercel accelerates by itself without using the gas peddel. The repairman said it has a internal leak of air in the carburetor and needs a new carburetor (costs $650). She likes to know if it is possible to fix the problem without replacing the whole carburetor. Thank you. ",7 "Simple Windows question Ok, here's a nice easy question for all you out there. When running DOS 5.0 under Windows 3.0, I lose the ability to do a print-screen. I have no problem with this when I'm running DOS not under Windows. If it's relavant, I'm using 'Quarterdeck 6.0' expanded memory manager for my 386. Please e-mail any responses, since I don't get to read the news too often. Thanks in advance. -- ||||||||||| ||||||||||| _|||||||||||_______________________|||||||||||_ jr0930@eve.albany.edu -|||||||||||-----------------------|||||||||||- jr0930@Albnyvms.bitnet ||||||||||| GO HEAVY OR GO HOME ||||||||||| ",2 "Re: Anti-Viral Herbs kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert) writes: >Unfortunately it was rather poorly researched, and would not be available >today if it were just invented. Keep in mind however that those were >the days when a bottle of Coca Cola really did contain coca extract and >a certain amount of active cocaine. Times have changed, and our attitudes >need to change with them. Well, yes. That was a part of my point. Aspirin has its problems, but in some situations it is useful. Ditto stuff like licorice root. Taking anything as a drug for theraputic purposes implicitly carries the idea of taking a dose where the benefits are not exceeded by any unwanted, additional effects. Taking any drug when the potential ill-effects are not known is a risk assumed by the parties involved, and it may be that in a given situation the risk is worthwhile. Like Prozac, for instance; Prozac has been shown to be theraputic in some cases where the tri-cyclics fail. But Prozac hasn't been in use that long, and it really isn't clear what if any effects it may have when taken over long periods of time, even though it has been tested by present day standards. Should Prozac be taken off the market because long-term effects, if any, are not known? IMHO, i'd say no. euclid >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >= Kenneth Gilbert | University of Pittsburgh = >= General Internal Medicine --*-- Pittsburgh, PA = >= kxgst1+@pitt.edu | ""...dammit, not a programmer! = >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >-- >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >= Kenneth Gilbert | University of Pittsburgh = >= General Internal Medicine --*-- Pittsburgh, PA = >= kxgst1+@pitt.edu | ""...dammit, not a programmer! = -- Euclid K. standard disclaimers apply ""It is a bit ironic that we need the wave model [of light] to understand the propagation of light only through that part of the system where it leaves no trace."" --Hudson & Nelson (_University_Physics_) ",13 "Re: So what is the fastest Windows video card for graphics and imaging ? In article , aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Alan Walford) writes: |> We have heard many bad things about the ATI Ultra Plus card (mainly having |> to do with its buggy Windows drivers). |> |> I would like to replace by ATI Graphics Ultra with a true-colour accelerated |> card. I was about to buy the ATI Ultra Plus (EISA) but it has had so much |> bad press that I am reconsidering. I have the ATI Ultra Pro local bus with 2MB VRAM, and I am perfectly happy with the Windows drivers (currently using version 59). It does everything you mention below, but also does 1024x768x16bpp true color. As a matter of fact it also supports high refresh 1280x1024 at 256 colors. The performance is great. |> |> |> I would like an accelerated card |> a card that does 24bit true colour at 800x600 at least |> a card that does 1024x758 at 256 colours (or more) |> a card that has fast polygon fills |> a card that has fast bit blits |> a card that has a robust windows driver |> a card that has high speed non-interlaced refresh |> |> Any suggestions? |> |> My app requires lots of 3d poly grahics and complexing true colour |> imaging. I would sure like a faster solution that what I have now. Supposedly the new Matrox Ultra-something-or-other actually does some 3d rendering (at least has some hardware support for Z). Good luck in your search. Cheers, Phil |> |> Thanks, |> |> Al |> |> -- |> Alan Walford Eos Systems Inc., Vancouver,B.C., Canada Tel: 604-734-8655 |> aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca OR ...uunet!wimsey.bc.ca!eosvcr!aew -- Philip Carmack | pcarmack@kpc.com (408)987-3336 Kubota Pacific Computers, Inc. | ",2 "Re: Freezing and Riding >every spec of alertness to keep from getting squished, otherwise it's not >only dangerous, it's unpleasant. The same goes for cold and fatigue, as I >once took a half hour nap at a gas station to insure that I would make it Yeah, hypothermia is MUCH more detrimemtal to your judgement and reactions than people realise. I wish I had the patience to stop when I should. One day I'll pay for it.... If you begin to shiver - STOP and warm up thoroughly. If you leave it till the shivering stops, this doesnt mean you're OK again, it means you're a danger to yourself and everyone else on the road - your brain and body are working about as fast as a tree grows. You will not realise this yourself till you hit something. The next stage is passing out. This usually means falling off. ",8 "Re: Biblical Backing of Koresh's 3-02 Tape (Cites enclosed) In article <1993Apr21.093914.1@woods.ulowell.edu> cotera@woods.ulowell.edu writes: >In article <1r17j9$5ie@sbctri.sbc.com>, netd@susie.sbc.com () writes: >> In article <20APR199301460499@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (stephen) writes: >>>For those who think David Koresh didn't have a solid structure, >>>or sound Biblical backing for his hour long tape broadcast, >> >> I don't think anyone really cares about the solid structure of his >> sermon. It's the deaths he's responsible for that concern most people. > >I assume you have evidence that he was responsible for the deaths? > >> Koresh was a nut, okay? > >Again, I'd like to see some evidence. Nut or not, he was clearly a liar. He said he would surrender after local radio stations broadcast his message, but he didn't. Then he said he would surrender after Passover, but he didn't. None of which excuses the gross incompetence and disregard for the safety of the children displayed by the feds. As someone else pointed out, if it had been Chelsea Clinton in there you would probably have seen more restraint. ---peter ",19 "Mac Plus for Sale y I have a Mac Plus with 4 megs of memory and a 20 megabyte hard drive for sale. The computer has a new power supply and has recently been overhauled. I also have an Imagewriter 1 printer available, though I do not have a cable for it. The hard drive has loaded on it goodies for word processing and other home and student uses. This system has been babied. Price is negotiable. ",4 "Re: Stereo sound problem (?) on mac games In article <1qsfak$skc@network.ucsd.edu> Doug P. Book, dpb@sdchemw2.ucsd.edu writes: >Hi. I think I have a problem with the stereo sound output on my Quadra >900, but I am not totally sure because my roomate has the same problem >on his PowerBook 170. Any info or experience anyopne has would be >greatly appreciated. > >When I hook my Quadra up to my home stereo system, the following types >of sounds (mono, as far as I can tell) all play fine through BOTH >speakers: > >system beeps (already provided ones such as Indigo and ones I record) > >Armor Alley >Spectre >Spaceward Ho! > > >But, the following games only play out of the left channel: > >Lemmings >Out of This World (awesome game, BTW) >Glider 4.0 >OIDS > > >But still, STEREO system beeps do play in stereo, through BOTH speakers. >(The one I'm specifically referrring to is Apocolyptic Beginning, which >my roommate downloaded from some ftp site (sumex?)) > > >All of the symptoms are the same on my rommates 170 (he can't run >OOTW because he doesn't have color). > >We're both running system 7.1 > > > >Does anyone with Lemmings or the other three games I mentioned above get >sound out of both speakers on a Mac II class, Quadra, LC, PowerBook 140 or >greater, Centris, SE/30, etc... (stereo) machine? > >I used to have a Mac II, and I sort of rememeber Lemmings playing in >stereo on that machine, not just on the left channel. (I could be >mistaken, though. If there were a problem with the Quad 900's and PB >170's, I am wondering why the system beeps still play in stereo? If there >isn't a problem with our machines, I wonder why the 4 games above are >apparantly written to support only one channel of stereo when they >could just use mono sounds so the mono sound would at least come out of >both speakers (like Spectre, etc. do)? > >Quadra 900's and PowerBook 170's have the same ROMS (to my knowledge), >so maybe this is a ROM problem? (if so, though, why wouldn't System 7.1 >patch over this problem?) > > > > >Thanks for any help you can provide! In article <1993Apr18.213827.9974@kth.se> Jon Wtte, d88-jwa@hemul.nada.kth.se writes: >Mac sound hardware is diverse; some macs play in stereo and >mix the output (the SE/30 for instance) while others play in >stereo but ONLY has the left channel for the speaker, while >some are ""truly"" mono (like the LC) > >Developers know that stuff played in the left channel is >guaranteed to be heard, while the right channel isn't. Some >send data to both, some only send data to the left channel >(the first is preferrable, of course) Okay, I guess its time for a quick explanation of Mac sound. The original documentation for the sound hardware (IM-3) documents how to make sound by directly accessing hardware. Basically, you jam values into all the even bytes from SoundBase to SoundBase+0x170. This was because of how the Mac 128 (and some later machines) generated sound was by scanning this block and D/Aing every even byte (the odd bytes went to the floppy on some machines). When the Mac II (and Apple Sound Chip) was invented, it was designed to generate stereo sound. It was also designed to be compatible with we had once documented. So storing bytes at the even values at SoundBase meant ""I want to play a mono sound"" and so it was emulated. But Apple had since retracted the documentation on SoundBase and decided not to document the lowest layers of sound generation. So apple never explained where to stuff bytes if you want to make stereo sound. Enter game developers. The sound driver and current sound manager are inconveniently lame for making games. Furthermore, people who port from the IBM don't want to learn more APIs. So, it has become popular for game writers to write to SoundBase to make sound, since it is very easy. Since the Mac II, Apple has had many different kind of sound output hardware, and the only things they have in common are that writing to SoundBase works. On some hardware, (Mac II, IIx, IIcx, IIci at least), writing to SoundBase gets you mono sound through both speakers. On some Macs (Quadra 700/900/950 at least) writing to SoundBase gets you mono sound on the left channel only. Both are technically correct interpretations of the original specification, but one is obviously preferable for asthetic reasons. If developers use the Sound Manager (and I think the sound driver), mono sounds will (typically) come out through both channels regardless of the underlying hardware. It is possible to specify you want to generate left channel only, but no one does. If developers write to sound base, their games will only come out the left on some games. The other problem, the original Mac II only producing left channel sound on the internal speaker, while the SE/30 mixes both, isn't really related. It is due to the post generation amplification used on the motherboards of the different machines. It only affects true stereo sounds. Sounds which are actually mono, will play on the internal speaker, no matter what machine you have. Now, to more directly address the question, the games you list: >Lemmings >Out of This World (awesome game, BTW) >Glider 4.0 >OIDS and also Hellcats, Super Tetris Oxyd (and many more, these are just what I've tested) Cheat and write to SoundBase and so are only left channel on Quadras. Other games you list: >Armor Alley >Spectre >Spaceward Ho! and also PGA Tour Golf Civilization (and more, these are again only from personal experience) Use the sound manager and work fine on all machines. The more of the story is to developers: DON'T CHEAT! Really, I am absolutely, positively not allowed to do what I am about to do, but I'm going say it anyway. Stop cheating on sound! Really soon, you will be sorry, as even those without external speakers will be disappointed with your sound on future hardware. The grace period is about to end. The Sound Manager is understandable now, and works pretty well and will work even better soon, so use it. In conclusion: To Doug, it isn't a hardware problem, at least, not a bug. To Jon, it isn't a choice to developers as to whether they want to send sound to both channels. If they do it the right way, it is taken care of automatically. If you cheat, there is not way to make it work on all hardware. Have fun. Disclaimer number 1: I don't work on sound here at Apple, I'm just pretty well informed. So don't write me with sound questions. Disclaimer number 2: If it says up above that I wrote anything like ""the grace period is about to end"" then it is a bug in your news feed, since I am catagorically not allowed to say anything like that. You know what I mean. Disclaimer number 3: I don't speak for Apple, just me. -Steve Bollinger ",4 "4Runner and Pathfinder recent changes. I am interested in finding out how the 4Runner and Pathfinder have been updated in the past few years. Like new engine, suspension and the like. I noticed that the 1993 and 1992 4Runners are identical, for example, and was looking into buying a used one. Any info would be appreciated, esp. models/years to check out or avoid. Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu) ",7 "BMW parts Greetings automobile enthusiasts. Can anyone tell me if there is a mail order company that sells BMW parts discounted... cheaper than the dealerships. Sorry if it's a FAQ. email replies very much appreciated. Thanks, -- | Jeff Strait | strait@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu | | University of Illinois | PHONE: (217) 333-6444 | | ""If you ladies leave this island, if you survive basic recruit | | training, you will be a weapon, a minister of death praying for war"" | ",7 "Re: saturn pricing blatherings Mihir Pramod Shah (mps1@cec1.wustl.edu) wrote: : Robert J. Wade writes: : > until...and more Saturn retailers are built(like 2 in the same city), : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : ...most medium and large cities have...a small handful of Saturn dealers now Sacramento has two Saturn dealerships. : Mihir Shah Ralph Bean hprnd.rose.hp.com ",7 "Re: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis In a previous article, cpr@igc.apc.org (Center for Policy Research) says: >6. Your answer to the question concerning rights to return >conflicts with what I was told, namely that hundreds of thousands >of non-Jews who left for some reason or other the area under >Israel control during the war of 1947-8, were prevented from >returning for the sole reason they were not Jews. Jews who also >left, for example to Europe, to avoid the clashes, were allowed to >return. How can you justify such discrimination, if this is true ? >Is the mere fact of a person leaving area of combat to seek refuge >somewhere else a reason for stripping him of his right to live in >his homeland ? You are conveniently ommitting the fact that the Arab governments told the Arab citizens of Israel to leave Israel, join with the Arab armies so that after what they felt like an assured victory occured, these Arabs could return to their former homes, reclaim them as well as anything else they wanted that belonged to Jews. When the Arabs lost, Israel was left with a bunch of people who has just tried to kill them who now wanted back into the country as citizens. What would you have done? Let them in so they could kill Jews? Israel sees those Arabs who stayed as citizens because they were loyal to Israel during the war and didn't leave. Of course some Arabs could have left to avoid the fighting but distinguishing between the two is impossible. Therefore a decision was made based on secuturity of the country. >8. You maintain that there are some Israeli Arabs living in >Israeli kibbutzim. I wonder how many and where. There is very >little evidence available about that. As much as I know, many >Arabs are working *for* kibbutzim, even for many years, but are >not accepted as members. Could it be that kibbutzim do not want >Arabs ? No kibbutz that I have ever visited has any ""employees"" unless they had to hire some people for the restaurants, hotels etc if there weren't enough people ON the kibbutz to do them. In such cases, they are paid properly. If a kibbutz turns away an Arab, 9I have never seen or heard of this) but it reflects only on the membership comittee of that kibbutz, not the whole kibbutz movement. >to keep it what way'. I am certain that if only religious >communities in the U.S. would be asked, they would gladly abolish >civil marriage so that people would depend upon rabbis and priests >to officiate marriages. But Israel has always been ruled by a >secular majority. Your answer is not satisfactory. This just shows how ignorant you are of Israeli politics. Although the major parties in Israel aren't religious (however not totally secular), due to the format of the government (coalition) the religious parties have always had a lot of pull since they were needed to form a majority coalition. In fact, from what I heard the present government is the least influenced by the religious parties in the existance of Israel. Israel CANNOT be called a secular state. For instace, Haifa is the only city in the country (except for maybe some Arab cities) where buses run on the Jewish Sabbath. There are many other examples of religion in Israel. Marriages in Israel are NOT contolled by the state, but by Rabbis and Priests. Obviously your disbelief of this fact sheds some light of your ignorance of the country you claim to know so much about. Steve -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Internet: aa229@freenet.carleton.ca Fidonet: 1:163/109.18 | | Mossad@qube.ocunix.on.ca | | <> | ",17 "Re: IF ONLY HE KNEW prudenti@juncol.juniata.edu wrote: : Upon arriving at home, Joseph probably took advantage of Mary...had his way : with her so to speak. Of course, word of this couldn't get around so Mary, : being the highly-religious follower that she was decided ""Hey, I'll just say : that GOD impregnated me...no one will ever know!"" : : Thus, seen as a trustworthy and honorable soul, she was believed... : : And then came Jesus, the child born from violence. : : : Dave, Can you explain the purpose of your post, I can't imagine what you must have thougt it meant. Bill ",0 "Re: The Mystery of Ron Gant In article <13664@news.duke.edu> fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.165738.16495@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Silverman) writes: >>o any of you experts want to analyze Ron Gant? > >omeone sure needs to analyze him. Gant is a head case. In his, what, six or >seven years in the Majors, he's put together a combined total of maybe one >good season? He lacks self-confidence, but worse, he doesn't really >understand baseball. Curiously, he seems to perform best when his job >is threatened. Sit him down for a game, and he might get a hit the next >night. But let him play, and what is he thinking about? Getting hits, >driving in runs? No, he's worried if he's going to get that 30 stolen >bases, or that 100th career home run. He appears to have no learning curve. >He never figured out how to play third base (what a fiasco). He still >plays the outfield with his legs. He's lucky he's so fast, because it enables >him to outrun his mistakes (but, as I suggested earlier in the season, it >looks to me like he's slowing down a little bit, or else every groundskeeper >is watering the infield dirt a little extra). > >Gant has had way too much of a chance already. He may get hot again for >a couple of months, but he'll always revert to his true level. Gant's ML record Age 28 this season. Year G AB BA OBP SLG HR SB CS 1987 21 83 .265 .271 .386 2 4 2 1988 146 563 .259 .317 .439 19 19 10 <-- 3rd Base Expt. year 1989 75 260 .177 .237 .335 9 9 6 1990 152 575 .303 .357 .539 32 33 16 1991 154 561 .251 .338 .496 32 34 15 1992 153 544 .259 .321 .415 17 32 10 In the majors for parts of 6 seasons, total playing time approx 4.5 seasons. Just looking at his hitting record, he's had 2 seasons of OPS greater than .800, which is pretty good for an OF. His 1988 season is pretty decent for a rookie 2B. The move to third base explains a lot of his 1989. When he returned as an OF, he began hitting again. And of course, last year he slumped. But no learning curve? He has obviously improved his batting eye over the years, as well as his SB/CS ratio. As to his fielding, he was an infielder when he was drafted, a 2Bman as he came up through the Braves system, and then the Braves put him through 2 position changes in the space of a year. He's an adequate OF, although not great, and at least some of your perception of his fielding is colored by watching him learn to play the OF at the ML level. (I know you're another long-term Braves fan :) About playing 3B...IMO, that's the 2nd most DIFFICULT position to field, after catcher. At SS or 2B, you need more range and speed, but at 3B, you've got to have quick reflexes and have a GUN for an arm. There are NO second chances at 3B, even when playing sandlot softball! Granted, I'd still put my best overall infielder at SS, but that's because he gets more chances, not because the job is harder. It still amazes me that so many teams have tried to convert other position players to 3B. But maybe that's because the supply of ""natural"" 3B is scarce. Finally, Gant is a player who puts pressure on himself to perform well, and works hard to improve. You don't get those amazingly huge arms on that relatively small body without a lot of weight work. Now, whether he's been overdoing it these days may be a valid question, as is the question of whether he tries too hard to make something happen during each at-bat. But frankly, if a player is going to not live up to potential, I'd much rather they fail by trying too hard, than by not trying hard enough. You might be able to teach relaxation to an adult; but at that age I don't believe you can teach hustle. All that said, I don't think I'd sign Gant to another long-term contract. He's 28 now, and I think he's free-agent eligible in 2 years, when he'll be 30. Given his career curve and limitations, I wouldn't expect him to last much past 35 as a ML ballplayer. He might surprise me here, but Atlanta's got some talent on the farm, and I'd rather take my chances down the road with Nieves et al. Eric ",9 "Armenians serving in the Wehrmacht and the SS. In article <735426299@amazon.cs.duke.edu> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Eduard Wiener) writes: > I can see how little taste you actually have in the > cheap shot you took at me when I did nothing more > than translate Kozovski's insulting reference > to Milan Pavlovic. C'mon, you still haven't corrected yourself, 'wieneramus'. In April 1942, Hitler was preparing for the invasion of the Caucasus. A number of Nazi Armenian leaders began submitting plans to German officials in spring and summer 1942. One of them was Souren Begzadian Paikhar, son of a former ambassador of the Armenian Republic in Baku. Paikhar wrote a letter to Hitler, asking for German support to his Armenian national socialist movement Hossank and suggesting the creation of an Armenian SS formation in order ""to educate the youth of liberated Armenia according to the spirit of the Nazi ideas."" He wanted to unite the Armenians of the already occupied territories of the USSR in his movement and with them conquer historic Turkish homeland. Paikhar was confined to serving the Nazis in Goebbels Propaganda ministry as a speaker for Armenian- and French-language radio broadcastings.[1] The Armenian-language broadcastings were produced by yet another Nazi Armenian Viguen Chanth.[2] [1] Patrick von zur Muhlen (Muehlen), p. 106. [2] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900 Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 124 and 129. The establishment of Armenian units in the German army was favored by General Dro (the Butcher). He played an important role in the establishment of the Armenian 'legions' without assuming any official position. His views were represented by his men in the respective organs. An interesting meeting took place between Dro and Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler toward the end of 1942. Dro discussed matters of collaboration with Himmler and after a long conversation, asked if he could visit POW camp close to Berlin. Himmler provided Dro with his private car.[1] A minor problem was that some of the Soviet nationals were not 'Aryans' but 'subhumans' according to the official Nazi philosophy. As such, they were subject to German racism. However, Armenians were the least threatened and indeed most privileged. In August 1933, Armenians had been recognized as Aryans by the Bureau of Racial Investigation in the Ministry for Domestic Affairs. [1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 112-113. Need I go on? Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Buying X Terminals We are planning on buying 15-20 X Terminals. I have the article from Jim Morton regarding prices, etc., and am looking for any other information that will help me decide which to buy. The terminals will be connected to a DEC 3000/400 AXP with 96Mb RAM, running OSF/1. From what I have found out so far, it would be best to run as much as possible in the terminal itself (X11, window manager, xterm, etc.), and that in order to do this we need n Mb RAM in the Xterminal (where n ranges from 4 to 10, depending on who I talk to). What should I be looking for? What sort of questions should I be asking the salespeople? Thanks Trevor J. Smedley - smedley@tuns.ca School of Computer Science Technical University of Nova Scotia ",5 "Re: Israeli Terrorism In article amoss@shuldig.cs.huji.ac.il (Amos Shapira) writes: >cy779@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Anas Omran) writes: > > The Israelis > used to arrest and sometimes to kill some of these neutral reporters. > >Eh???? Could you please give me details about an event where a ""Neutral >Observer"" was killed by purpose by an Israeli soldier? > >--Amos > Actually, I'm still trying to understand the self-justifying rationale behind the recent murder of Ian Feinberg (?) in Gaza. -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "Re: Organized Lobbying for Cryptography In article <1r3jgbINN35i@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> jgfoot@minerva.cis.yale.edu writes: > >Perhaps these encryption-only types would defend the digitized porn if it >was posted encrypted? > >These issues are not as seperable as you maintain. > To paraphrase, I may not agree with what you're encrypting, but I defend your right to encrypt it. -- - <> - Carl Ellison cme@sw.stratus.com - Stratus Computer Inc. M3-2-BKW TEL: (508)460-2783 - 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298 FAX: (508)624-7488 ",11 "Tenor Saxophone For Sale: Selmer Mark VII Tenor Saxophone Used for College Jazz Band Performances. I will include a copy of ""The New Real Book"" whick is a collection of Jazz Classics and various other standards. (paid $30 for it). Other extras included. Asking $1100 We can discuss shipping and COD charges. send me some e-mail or call me 303-224-4317 (home) or 303-491-7585 (school) -- ****************************************************************************** Davis jd490475@longs.lance.colostate.edu ****************************************************************************** ",6 "Re: Mac Plus is constantly rebooting! > Tae Shin (tshin@husc8.harvard.edu) wrote: > : > : Basically, the Mac Pluses are constantly rebooting themselves, as if the > : reboot button were being pushed. Sometimes the Mac is able to fully boot > : and display the desktop, but it is only a matter of time before it reboots > : again. At times, the frequency is as high as several times a minute. > : > I wonder if your Mac has those little ""RESET / INTERUPT"" switches > installed. They are plastic devices that push on the switches which > are inside the mac. Or mabey those switches are bad and need replacing. I wish I caught the original post, but anyway ... The problem is that the Plus's poor old power supply (sometimes referred to as the analog sweep board) is on its way out. Apart from a board swap (bikkies to Apple), there's not much the average Joe can do to fix it. You can, of course, try and re-adjust the voltage levels (the 5v rail should be as close to 5v as you cn get it) but this is more often than not a temporary fix. A copy of Larry Pina's ""Macntosh Repair & Upgrade Secrets"" is a worthwhile investment for the serious do-it-yaself-er. Geoff Peters mididoc@cola.flash.pax.tpa.com.au ",4 "Societal basis for morality I'll yield the discussion on absolute morality until I can think of another way to discuss it. If you're interested in a change, here's an idea. If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What right do we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally mandated morality? Pardon the extremism, but couldn't I murder your ""brother"" and say that I was exercising my rights as I saw them, was doing what felt good, didn't want anyone forcing their morality on me, or I don't follow your ""morality"" ? MAC -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",19 "Re: System 6.0.8L > Lines: 5 > > -- > ____ > Y_,_|[]| Ernest Stalnaker > {|_|_|__| jcs@sage.cc.purdue.edu > //oo--OO ...!pur-ee!sage.cc!jcs Nice train... Wait... this is *.mac.hardware, does it have a mac in it? ",4 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr15.153729.13738@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes: >Chinese, and many other Asians (Japanese, Koreans, etc) have used >MSG as flavor enhancer for two thousand years. Do you believe that >they knew how to make MSG from chemical processes? Not. They just >extracted it from natural food such sea food and meat broth. And to add further fuel to the flame war, I read about 20 years ago that the ""natural"" MSG - extracted from the sources you mention above - does not cause the reported aftereffects; it's only that nasty ""artificial"" MSG - extracted from coal tar or whatever - that causes Chinese Restaurant Syndrome. I find this pretty hard to believe; has anyone else heard it? Andrew ",13 "X on DOS or Windows I'm posting this request again since the last one had no title. I'm looking for X server software on DOS or Windows. I've already seen Desqview/X and XVision but would like to be aware of other solutions, namely public domain or shareware implementations. I'd also like to know, in the commercial case, about possible problems, incompatibilities, available window managers and libraries, etc. If you have any experiences in this area please let me know. C U! By(e) Mario Valente ",5 "TOWNHOUSE FOR SALE IN WHEATON TOWNHOME FOR SALE IN WHEATON Briarcliffe Lakes of Wheaton Just North Of Butterfield Road Call (708) 682-8222 and ask for Harriet Bode (Prudential Realty) or Call me with any question at 979-6164. Description: A very neat, well cared for, low maintenance starter coach home in very fine condition located on a cul-de-sac . Just move in. Rooms:(5+1) - Eat in kitchen (10.3 X 9.2) - Large master bedroom (12.6 X 12.6) - Spare Bedroom (12.6 X 10) - Dining Room (10.9 X 9) - Living Room (21 X 11.10) - Utility Room (10 X 5.5) - 1.25 Baths Appliances: - Stove(gas), refrigerator and dish washer - Garage opener - Washer and Dryer - Garbage Disposal - Gas water heater (3 Years Old) - Central A/C with DIGITAL Thermostat. Highlights: - Electric Fire Place in living room. - Sliding glass doors which open up to a patio with a secluded back yard area. - Plenty of storage space with patio storage closet and storage closet in garage. - New ceiling fan in Dining Room, - Completely remodeled bathroom (new wallpaper, shower door, shower tile, etc...) - Mini blinds for all windows - Newer carpets (beige) (About 3 Years old) - One car garage and plenty of guest parking Association Fees: $105.90 which includes the following: - Lawn Maintenance - Snow Removal - All Exterior building maintenance Taxes 1992: $1,700 ASKING PRICE OF HOME: $91,900 ",6 "Re: Merlin, Mithras and Magick caldwell@facman.ohsu.edu (Larry Caldwell) writes: >There evidently was a feast of bread and wine associated with Mithras. I >have often wondered if Yeshua intentionally introduced this ritual to >expand the appeal of his religion, or if it was appropriated by later >worshipers. > You could argue that if you wanted, but I think a more reasonable argument would point out the fact that the remembrance feast was very similar to the Pesach (Passover) meal during Seder, a very Jewish ritual. The fact that there appears to be an abuse in the early Church of people eating too much (a very real concern with some Passover meals) and not treating the meal with respect, shows the simplifying of the ritual to just bread and wine to be a way of dealing with the inherent problems of people's human nature, and trying to keep the essentials of the remembrance aspects. David (whitten@fwva.saic.com) US:(619)535-7764 [I don't speak as a company rep.] ",19 "Help in developing a X-Windows interface for GDB Hi, I am trying to write an X-windows based interface that runs on top of GDB. Could anyone help me in understanding the way we are supposed to ""fork"" GDB off as a subprocess ?? I currently use pipes but when I try and debug this program, the following happens : PROGRAM : main() { int x; printf(""enter x : ""); scanf(""%d"", &x); printf(""x = .%d.\n"", x ); } OUTPUT : The program hangs without returning the output of the printf statement. When I type in a value (like 5), then all the printf's output comes out at one time. Is there any other way, besides using PIPES to do this i.e., like ioctl or something else ?? Thanks, Deepak -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deepak Mulchandani Advanced Products Research and Development Laboratory Motorola, Semiconductor Products Sector Austin, TX (512) 928-7642 deepak@inxs.sps.mot.com ",5 "Re: Clipper Chip. LONG follow up. In article <1993Apr20.030538.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi) writes: <> <> QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S <> TELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE <> <> Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on <> a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation <> encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to <> decipher the message? <> <> A: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a <> court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They <> would then present documentation of this authorization to <> the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and <> obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug <> smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are <> stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key <> escrow system. I apologize for being so dense but this sentence reads as if it was lifted from a Luis Bunuel screenplay. Am I missing something? Why on earth would drug smugglers even _use_ the device then? Obviously, they'll be using something like triple encryption DES instead. As long as alternatives to Clipper remain legal, Clipper accomplishes absolutely nothing, ZERO, as far as law enforcement is concerned. The whole scheme is an absolute, total, incredible, waste of government time and money AS LONG AS other encryption schemes that are any good remain legal. In order for Clipper to work as intended all strong cryptosystems have to be outlawed. Jan Bielawski Computervision, San Diego jpb@calmasd.prime.com ",11 "******WANTED::SEGA GLASSES***** I badly need a pair of SEGA 3D glasses for a cheap VR setup. If you have a set and want to part with it, I can arrange shipping, etc.., and duty if necessary. Leave e-mail to: davecru@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca or call (403) 459-2893 ask for DJ. -- Dave Cruickshank davecru@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca ",6 "Re: X11 load on the Network bkline%occs.nlm.nih.gov (Bob Kline) writes: >Can someone point me in the direction of any papers (not necessarily >formally conducted studies) discussing how much traffic X apps generate >for the network, particularly in comparison with curses-bases apps >over telnet? Also, does an X server typically buffer up user keyboard >input a line at a time? Can the X client control this, asking for >keystrokes immediately? Thanks in advance for any feedback! Ncd has an excellent document titled ""Host Loading Considerations in the X environment"". I received my copy by emailing support@ncd.com. This may help out. -- ============================================================================== Tim White University of South Carolina tim@otis.hssc.scarolina.edu Humanities and Social Sciences Laboratory (803)-777-7840 Columbia, S.C. 29208 ",5 "Yankee Meditations. Do you realize that the yankees are paying Matt Nokes 2,500,000 dollars this year!!!! GEESH. And Maas only gets 125,000. By the way, the yankees are going to WIN IT ALL Yankees are the BEST. By the way, JT Snow, an ex-yankee, will be rookie of the year. ",9 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. In article nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes: > >Would they buy it, given that it's a _lot_ more expensive, and not >much more impressive, than putting a large set of several-km >inflatable billboards in LEO (or in GEO, visible 24 hours from your >key growth market). I'll do _that_ for only $5bn (and the changes of >identity). I've heard of sillier things, like a well-known utility company wanting to buy an 'automated' boiler-cleaning system which uses as many operators as the old system, and which rumour has it costs three million more per unit. Automation is more 'efficient' although by what scale they are not saying... James Nicoll ",14 "Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles In article <20726.2bcd8b62@ecs.umass.edu> sylveste@ecs.umass.edu writes: >Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v. >This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon. Very rare also. > > Mike Sylvester Umass > Yes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday. I thought Audi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000. This is exactly the type of vehicle I would like to own. I bet its price is 4-5 times my car budget. -- Ron DeBlock rdb1@homxb.att.com (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l) AT&T Bell Labs Somerset, NJ USA ",7 "jpeg fif specification I recently got a document describing the JPEG FIF (JFIF) file format. I was looking thru it, but I didn't get the idea how to determine the size of a pic in pixel without decoding the whole image. How do you get the height and width of a JPEG in a JFIF? How do you determine wether it is a color or a greyscale picture? I wrote a small tool (lsgif) for GIF that returns the filesize, picture size and color resolution by analizing the header chunks. The output looks like this: 157605 bla.gif 640x 480 248C24 I use this lsgif to create index files of my archive and since JPEG are getting more and more popular I would like to have a similar tool for JFIF, with an output like this: 57605 bla.jpg 640x 480 C24 Please respond by email, because I don't read this news group very often. I'll post a summary if it is useful. Thanx in advance, Larry +-------------------------------------+------------------------------+ | Lars ""Larry"" Michael (Mr. GIF) | ""If Murphy's Law | | lars@itu.sun.ac.za | can go wrong, it will."" | | lsmichae@informatik.uni-erlangen.de +--------------+---------------+ | Spec. Stud. at Univ. of Stellenbosch South Afrika | HAM: ZR/DB3BW | | Grad. Stud. at Univ. of Erlangen/Nuremberg Germany | IRC: Pit | +----------------------------------------------------+---------------+ ",1 "Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach poram@ihlpb.att.com writes: On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God. To quote Unger's Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha: 1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and anachronisms. 2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices which are at variance with sacred Scripture. 3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of subject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture. 4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine Scripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and poetic and religious feeling. First, to point out the obvious: While #4 would clearly be a highly subjective issue, one would be hard pressed to point to another book of the OT (or for that matter the NT) that doesn't, on some issues, in some way, fail one or more of the first three of these tests. Second, one factor the Deuterocanonicals share is the lateness of their composition. I don't recall the exact dating of all of the books, but most --if not all-- were written after the latest of the canonical books (i.e. Daniel). Furthermore, while the Deuterocanonical may or may not have been originally written in Greek, they are clearly deeply _Hellenistic_ in nature. Both of these features probably figured heavily in the rejection of these books from the various canons. These may not be strict and uniformly applicable criteria by which to judge the canonicity of these books, but, as these discussions have shown, I think the one thing we can see is that there _are_ no purely objective standards for determining canonicity. Nichael ;(and (funcall (get 'smurfy-smile-icon 'like-predicate) 'lisp) (sys::honk)) ",15 "Re: Why SCSI? (Was: DCC and MiniDisc: next DAT/DDS like story?) > Another thing, why a SCSI interface ? > > By giving the 2.5""MO a floppy interface it could reduce the price of it and > make it easily installed in existing devices. easily installed in existing pc clone devices, you mean and thats not even really true, cause neither the controller nor the computers bios will know anything about them and it probably wouldnt be in sony's (or whoever) best interest to restrict themselves to customers using pc clones and apple ][s (and whatever other obsolete boxes might use the familiar old floppy interface) -- Bella Lugosi's dead, Jim ",4 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article <1qke5b$mc4@spool.mu.edu> jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson) writes: >>From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU (""Erik Velapoldi""): >>> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway. >>> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to >>> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass. Four or five >>> cars were hit. There were several serious injuries, and sadly > >About a year ago, some kids tossed a rock off an overpass on I-94 near Eau >Claire, Wisconsin and it killed the driver below. (I believe he was a >schoolteacher from Minnesota.) Here in Houston a couple years ago a young pregnant woman was killed in a similar manner. ",7 "Re: chronic sinus and antibiotics If the nose culture shows Staph, then Ceftin or even Ceclor are better. Suprax does not kill Staph. Treating bacterial infections involves a lot of try-and-fail because the infections often involve multiple organisms with many resistant strains. Some 60% of Hemophilus Influenza strains are now resistant. What works for me and my organisms may not work for you and yours. Keep experimenting. Ken Colby ",13 "LOOKING FOR GRAIG@TOONTOWN I noticed you post in comp.graphics and know a person with your name. I was wondering if you used to live in Paxton Mass. If so, I have a friend that would like to say HI. Sorry for the inconvience if this isn't who I think it is. SR ",1 "Clipper Crap >encryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the >privacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield >criminals and terrorists. We need the ""Clipper Chip"" and other ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Just a random passing thought, but can anyone cite a documented use of encryption technology by criminals and terrorists. (Excluding the Iran-Contra Gang) -- Shaun P. Hughes sphughes@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu finger for PGP 2.2 Public Key ",11 "Re: How to change an icon for a program in windows In article <1993Apr30.184917.16823@uenics.evansville.edu> toelle@uenics.evansville.edu (Chad Toelle) writes: >Suppose you want to change the particular icon for a program in >windows such as the MS-DOS one. Would someone let me know how you can >do this? > It depends on wether you are going to replace this with an icon that comes standard with windows, or with an icon from some other icon manager. Well, if it is one of those that comes with windows, just highlight the item by clicking once on it, click on 'File' and then on 'Properties'. You should see a box which says 'Change icon'. Click on it. You are going to be presented with some icons (sometimes just one). If you don't like any of those presented, click on the 'browse' box, and look for the file 'moricons.dll' Select it. Browse through the icons presented, and just double click on your desired icon. If you want to replace it with an icon from some other icon manager, say iconPower for instance, open the icon manager at the bottom of your screen, where it will not block the application icon you wish to replace. When you have found your desired icon, click on it once, and while holding the mouse button down, pull this icon over the one you wish to change. And thats it! regards ___________________________________________________________________________ | Kan Mongwa \ mongwa@acsu.buffalo.edu \ / | State Univeristy \ BITNET v143wxkp@ubvms \ HUMPTY DUMPTY / | of New York @ Buffalo \ c143wxkp@ubvm \ / ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",2 "Re: Dean Palmer Hurt? Edward Ouellette (edo@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) wrote: : I think Dean got hit by a pitched ball the other night... he got pinch hit for : and didn't play against Baltimore tonight... whats up with that? Is he hurt? : Please tell me he's not... He evidentally got hit in the elbow by a Fernando pitch. His arm swelled from the elbow to the wrist (or something like that). They took X-rays of the arm and there is nothing damaged. He missed the last game with the Orioles, but he is suppose to be ready for the next game. Hope this helps. Mike West west@esd.dl.nec.com ",9 "Delayed-Write-Caches I'm using Norton Cache 5.0, which is really nice but horrible incompatible. Some games won't work it, my streamer software won't work with it and Windows doesn't like it at all. But when copying or deleting lots of small files, only NCACHE is really fast. You see, to write a file the FAT must be changed. But to write 1000 files the FAT must be changed only once. Is there any cache program out there which is smart enough to do the same and good enough to run with all my applications? Any help is really appreciated. ",3 "Re: Satan kicked out of heaven: Biblical? easteee@wkuvx1.bitnet writes: >Hello all, > I have a question about Satan. I was taught a long time ago >that Satan was really an angel of God and was kicked out of heaven >because he challenged God's authority. The problem is, I cannot >find this in the Bible. Is it in the Bible? If not, where did it >originate? >Wondering, >Eddie The quick answer: Revelation 12:7-9 ""And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels who fought back. But he [the dragon] was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent, called the devil and Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels with him."" The earlier part of chapter 12 deals (very symbolically) with why Satan rose up in battle against Michael and the good angels in the first place. Hope this clears it up. - Mike Walker ",15 "Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam... From article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, by markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger): > This kind of behavior is what I was shocked by in my 'experience'. For > crying out loud, how do these turkeys think they can talk to customers > this way and still stay in business? Again, I don't expect sales people to > bow, scrape, and grovel in my presence but I sure don't expect to be > abused either. I was very surprised by the way the sales people talked to > me and in other 'negotiating' sessions I overheard in neighboring sales > cubicles. Evidently, their success rate is high enough that they continue > to do business this way. There must be a lot of people out there who are > easy to intimidate. > A couple of months ago I went to a dealership to test drive a car. Afterwards, we sat down to discuss prices. I explained that I wanted a car just like the one I drove, but in a different color. He said he could get one exactly like I wanted from the dealer network within a day. We then negotiated a price and signed the deal. Next day, I get a call. He explains that they goofed, and they had neglected to take into account a price increase. (The last price increase had occurred over 4 months prior to my visit.) If I still wanted the car, I would have to fork over another $700. As an alternative, they would honor the price if I bought the car I test drove (which had been sitting around for 6 months and had a few miles on it). I said goodbye. This was a good example of how they can lowball you and still cover their butts. It's too bad more people don't demand honesty or these types of dealers would no longer be in business. The next dealership I went to was straightforward and honest. First thing the salesman said was, ""Lets's see what you have for dealer cost and work out how much profit I should make."" The deal went through with no problems. Steve ",7 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <1r3j2k$da2@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes: > Minor quibble: The assualt (and it was one) began near dawn. The fire did >not break out for several hours. Minor quibble back at you. I am in the same general area as the Koresh compound and I can tell you that the air was quite chilly that morning, especially with the high winds that were blowing. (Of course the swiss cheese walls made it even worse. ;-) ",16 "A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMAD, PART-3 DROPLET VOL 1, No 11, Part 3 D R O P L E T From The Vast Ocean Of The Miraculous Qur'an Translations from the Arabic and Turkish Writings of Bediuzzaman Said Nursi, The Risale-i Noor VOL 1, No 11, Part 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------ NINETEENTH LETTER MU'JIZAT-I AHMEDIYE RISALESI A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMED SAW, Part 3 (continued from Droplet Vol 1, No 11, Part 2) THIRD SIGN: The miracles of Muhammad (SAW) are extremely varied. Because his messengership is universal, he has been distinguished by miracles that relate to almost all species of creation. Just as the supreme aide of a renowned ruler, arriving with many gifts in a city where various people live, will be welcomed by a representative of each people who acclaims him and bids him welcome in his own language so, too, when the supreme messenger of the Monarch of Pre- and Post-Eternity (Ezel and Ebed Sultani) honored the universe by coming as an envoy to the inhabitants of the earth, and brought with him the light of truth and spiritual gifts sent by the Creator of the universe and derived from the realities of the whole universe, each species of creation -from water, rocks, trees, animals and human beings to the moon, sun and stars- welcomed him and acclaimed his prophethood, each in its own language, and each bearing one of his miracles. Now it would require a voluminous work to mention all his miracles. As the punctilious scholars have written many volumes concerning the proofs of His prophethood, here we will briefly point out only the general category into which fall fhe miracles that are definite and accepted as accurate reports. The evidences of the prophethood of Muhammad (SAW) fall into two main categories: The first is called irhasat and includes the paranormal events that happened at the time of his birth, or before his declaration of prophethood. The second group pertains to all the remaining evidences of the prophethood, and contains two subdivisions: 1) Those wonders that were manifested after his departure from this world in order to confirm his prophethood, and 2) Those that he exhibited during the era of his prophethood. The latter has also two parts: 2.1) The evidences of his prophethood that became manifest in his own personality, his inner and outer being, his moral conduct and perfection, and 2.2) The miracles that: related to substantial matters. The last part again has two branches: 2.2.1) Those concerning the Qur'an and spirituality, and 2.2.2) Those relating to matter and creation. This last branch is again divided into two categories: 2.2.2.1) The first involves the paranormal happenings that occured during his mission either to break the stubbornness of the unbelievers, or to augment the faith of the belivers. This category has twenty different sorts, such as the splitting of the moon, the flowing of water from the fingers, the satisfying of large numbers with a little food, and the speaking of trees, rocks and animals Each of these sons has also many instances, and thus has, in meaning, the strength of confirmation by consensus. 2.2.2.2) As for the second category, this includes events lying in the future that occured as he had predicted upon Allah (SWT)'s instructions. Now starting from the last category, we will summarize a list of them.(1) (1) Unfonunately, I could not write as I had intended without choice, I wrote as my head dictated, and I could not completely conform to the order of this classification. ----------------------------------------------------------------- To be Continued Allah Willing. Irfan Alan, A Servant of Islam. ",19 "Re: 3d graphics software company info? I believe many people will be happy to have this information. So, please post it to the comp.graphics. Thanks, -Changyaw ",1 "RasterOps 8XL I have a video board for sale for Macintosh NU-Bus machines. My other deal fell through. I am asking $200. RasterOps 8XL 640x480 800x600 <--- This was incorrectly posted as 832x624 before. 640x870 1024x768 (60hz & 75 hz) 1152x870 Make offers by mail. -- RJ Kohlhepp Novell Systems Staff kohlhepp@cae.wisc.edu Computer Aided Engineering ",6 "What do Nuclear Site's Cooling Towers do? I really don't know where to post this question so I figured that this board would be most appropriate. I was wondering about those massive concrete cylinders that are ever present at nuclear poer sites. They look like cylinders that have been pinched in the middle. Does anybody know what the actual purpose of those things are?. I hear that they're called 'Cooling Towers' but what the heck do they cool? I hope someone can help ",12 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qkn25$k@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: #In article <1qjb40$n4f@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #|> In article <1qijer$a2r@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> taite@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes: #|> #you can't force your view of objective morality on me. #|> #|> Try me. #|> #|> [Note to readers outside t.a. : #|> #|> taite has been advocating violent civil disobedience in the U.S. #|> in order to promote his view that abortion should be illegal. Given the #|> necessity and the opportunity, I would have no objection to ""forcing"" #|> morality on him, if that's what it would take to prevent him carrying out #|> his stated desire to ""hang women who have multiple abortions""] # #What do you mean when you say ""I would have no objection?"" Right, I mean that I would approve of, and if necessary (it isn't) assist in such force. #Do you mean it's moral to use force on someone who advocates #the use of force? With a few provisos, yes. Minimum force, for a start. And, it depends on what is being forced (on either side). #Or do you mean that sometimes we have to use force on such #people out of necessity or self-defence, while recognizing #that our own actions in doing so are not moral? My opinion is that our actions would be moral, and it would be immoral not to act if action would be both necessary and effective. Again, there many caveats and provisios. Note, my usage of ""my opinion"" is an admission that I don't have a lock on morals, not that there is no truth about morality to have a lock on. #jon. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: Info on Sport-Cruisers In article <4foNhvm00WB4E5hUxB@andrew.cmu.edu> jae+@CMU.EDU writes: >I'm looking for a sport-cruiser - factory installed fairings ( >full/half ), hard saddle bags, 750cc and above, and all that and still >has that sporty look. > >I particularly like the R100RS and K75 RT or S, or any of the K series >BMW bikes. > >I was wondering if there are any other comparable type bikes being >produced by companies other than BMW. The Honda ST1100 was designed by Honda in Germany, originally for the European market, as competition for the BMW 'K' series. Check it out. Tony +---------------+------------------------------+-------------------------+ |Tony Kidson | ** PGP 2.2 Key by request ** |Voice +44 81 466 5127 | |Morgan Towers, | The Cat has had to move now |E-Mail(in order) | |Morgan Road, | as I've had to take the top |tony@morgan.demon.co.uk | |Bromley, | off of the machine. |tny@cix.compulink.co.uk | |England BR1 3QE|Honda ST1100 -=<*>=- DoD# 0801|100024.301@compuserve.com| +---------------+------------------------------+-------------------------+ ",8 "2-gig Fujitsu 5.25"" disk drive for sale 2-gigabyte Fujitsu 5.25"" disk drive internal drive, model M26525A (uses either a SCSI or EDI interface on your disk controller card) brand new, still in box, never used only $1800 (compare to $2400 in cheapest mail-order catalogs) POSTED FOR A FRIEND. Pleade respond to: jbredt@athena ",6 "Re: How do DI boxes work? In article lancer@oconnor.WPI.EDU (Stephe Lewis Foskett) writes: > I'm doing sound for a couple of bands around here and we need Direct > Input boxes for the keyboards. These are the little boxes that take a > line level out of the keyboard and transform it into low-Z for the run > to the mixer. Sadly they cost like $50 (or more) each and I'm going > to need like 5 or 10 of them! I looked inside one (belonging to > another band) and it looks like just a transformer. Does anyone have > any plans for building them? Perhaps in Anderton's ""Electronic > Projects for Musicians"" book (which I am having a hell of a time > tracking down...)? An Easy way to solve the problem is to use two op-amps to form the balanced low-Z output, but this solution does not provide any galvanic isolation between keyboard (or whatever plugged) and mixer. If no tight requiremets are demanded and some hum, snap, crackle and pop sounds (formed by ground loops) can be tolerated, the op-amp solution is just what you are looking for! (It is cheap...somewhat $10/DI-box). Not sure, but Craig Anderton did introduce one DI-box project in Guitar Player mag years ago (transformerless)..... > Thanks a lot! Hope this helps. Email, if more details wanted.... > - lancer@wpi.wpi.edu - - 0{{ MoDiMiDoFrSaSo: - > - Mein Kopf ist ein Labyrinth, mein Leben ist ein Minenfeld - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Heikki Paananen heke@stekt.oulu.fi The University of Oulu Department of electrical engineering -Just a student Finland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Home is where the heart lies, but if the heart lies where is home? -Fish ",12 "Re: Moonbase race In article <1993Apr21.204941.15055@iti.org>, aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >In article <1r46o9INN14j@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: > >>So how much would it cost as a private venture, assuming you could talk the >>U.S. government into leasing you a couple of pads in Florida? > >Why would you want to do that? The goal is to do it cheaper (remember, >this isn't government). Instead of leasing an expensive launch pad, >just use a SSTO and launch from a much cheaper facility. Allen, sometimes I think you're OK. And sometimes you tend to rashly leap into making statement without thinking them out. Wanna guess which today? You'd need to launch HLVs to send up large amounts of stuff. Do you know of a private Titan pad? Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it? -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ",14 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu writes: | If you are paying for a phone, and you don't want call-waiting, YOU DON'T | NEED TO PAY FOR CALl-WAITING. [...] | If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT | ""abortion coverage"" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED | to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction | coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage). Why the hell would somebody named ""Dennis"" be paying for abortion coverage at all? Why aren't you also complaining that you want your insurance premiums reduced because you won't be needing that pap smear coverage? Followups restricted to the appropriate newsgroup. --- C J Silverio cj@sgi.com ceej@well.sf.ca.us ""In Melbourne, Fla., meanwhile, anti-abortion marchers rallied to celebrate the death of Dr. David Gunn. ""Praise God!"" they shouted."" (NY Daily News, Fri. March 12, p. 20) ",18 "Bible Unsuitable for New Christians A ""new Christian"" wrote that he was new to the faith and learning about it ""by reading the Bible, of course"". I am not at all sure this is the best path to follow. While the Bible is, for Christians, the word of God, the revelation of God is Jesus Christ and the chief legacy of this revalation is the Church. I am not recommending any one denommination, but I do recommend finding a comfortable christian congregation in which to develop your faith, rather than just reading the Bible. This does not mean that the Bible should not be read, although I would stick to the Gospels, epistles, and Psalms and avoid the Book of Revelation altogether [until you are with friends you are comfortable with]. I am sure that mistakenly fervent projects to read the entire Bible have frequently bogged down with a remarkable lack of fervour somewhere in the middle of Leviticus, or for the really sturdy, somewhere in Chronicles. The point is that the Bible is their to illustrate the Faith of Christians, but does not provide the totality of that faith. Vital beliefs of virtually all Christians are simply not mentioned - the Trinity, the duality of natures in Christ, types of Church organization. All these beliefs and practices have developed from the lived experience of the Christian people, an experience lived one hopes in the Spirit. As such the Bible, I think, is better studies in the context of a congregation, and the context of other reading. Following up on a suggestion of an old confessor of mine, I would even suggest that a good novel is a good way to reflect on the christian life. [Most novels of any profundity are actually discussing the nature of good and evil in the human heart]. My own induction into the christian faith was brought about [after grace] through reading Graham Greene: _The Power and the Glory_ and the poetry of Gerard Manley Hopkins. I would also recommend Graham Greene's _Monsignor Quixote_ and any novel by Iris Murdoch. The last is not even a Christian, but such is her insistence on the need for the good life, that, frankly, I often am more uplifted and God directed after reading her than after reading many parts of the Bible. And that after all is what being a Christian is all about: letting your soul and your life be, in some way, directed towards the infinite, represented to us by the person of Jesus Christ. Paul Halsall Halsall@murray.fordham.edu ",15 "Re: Quick question In article ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes: How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside on an '87 Honda Prelude? The speaker went scratchy, and I want to access its pins. Why are you posting this tripe to rec.autos.vw? -- DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK! ",7 "Re: MR2 - noisy engine. In article , eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes: >In article <1993Apr21.204521.21182@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: >>The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard. >>I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply >>makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the >>engine is right behind your left ear :-) > >i think those with 1.6 MR2's would describe the engine as sweet if a >little loud, those with 2.2 MR2's i can't imagine any unbiased person >paying it any compliments. sounded like my ex-dormmate's rusty chevy >chevette. with the 1.6 i would want to redline it just for the music, >with the 2.2 i would short shift so that it would shut up.. the new >camry 2.2 features balance shafts. i guess since the mr2 is getting >the axe, it is too late for them to do anything about this.. > >it is no mystery that the turbo mr2 is ""only"" 2 liters.. the engineers >had enough integrity to prevent any further abuses. also, in europe >the MR2 Mk2 non-turbo was also ""only"" 2 liters.. as usual, the >undiscriminating american market (if it is japanese it *must* be good) >gets the dogs.. to be fair, we also got the turbo, which the europeans Well, the 1.6 IS music to my ears. I often turn my stereo off and just run it towards red line on nice twisty roads. But Toyota engines at idle have a strange ""bells and whisstles at the bottom of a matal can"" sound. I can't describe it any better. Just like all the older Benzes have a very characteristic clattering sound at idle. Do you know what I'm referring to? MIke.S ",7 "Help with World-to-screen 4x4 transfomation matrix I need help in creating my 4x4 perspective matrix. I'd like to use this for transforming x, y, z, w in some texture mapping code I got from Graphics Gems I. I have many books which talk about this, but none of them in simple plain english. If you have Graphics Gems I, I'm talking about page 678. I'd like to have a perspective matrix that handles different field-of-views and aspect of course. Thank's for your help. -- Yes, of course everything I say is my personal opinion! Robert J.C. Kyanko (rob@rjck.oau.org or rob@rjck.UUCP) ",1 "Don Cherry - help me out, here As a person who has rarely even SEEN Don Cherry and doesn't know anything about him, I don't know whether it is just this area (Pittsburgh) of the USA that is ""deprived"" of his broadcasts or whether he's a Canadian thing altogether. Seriously, what is he all about? I know he was a coach at one time, and from the volume of posts about him, SOMEONE surely is getting a steady diet of him somehow, but my question is, what is the deal with him? Secondly, are the comments of his that I read about on the net merely flame bait, or do people actually take him seriously? I gotta tell you, from what I see, he really sounds like an ass. Let me know - maybe I'm missing something. ",10 "Summary: pd schematic editor A couple of weeks ago, I was asking for a public domain schematic editor which is compatible with SPICE and runs under X. I got several e-mails and therefore I wrote this summary: It seems that there are two public domain tools available. The first one is called 'chipmunk' and is available at hobiecat.caltech.edu or in europe at ifi.uio.no. In fact chipmunk is complete VLSI design tool (schematic editor, layout editor, LVS, DRC...). The schematic editor itself is called LOG. The second one I heard of is called 'OCTTOOLS'. It is also a complete VLSI package. The fully uncompressed release takes about 130Mb of disk space. It should be available at Berkley. That's all I got so far. Mark __________________________________________________________________________ _____ Mark Niederberger Email: mniederb@itr.ch __________________________________________________________________________ _____ ",5 "Mel Hall Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season? I'd heard he wasn't with the Yankees any more. What happened to him? Doug Dolven -- Doug Dolven warped@cs.montana.edu gdd7548@trex.oscs.montana.edu ",9 "Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? Another issue of importance. Was the crucification the will of God or a tragic mistake. I believe it was a tragic mistake. God's will can never be accomplished through the disbelief of man. Jesus came to this world to build the kingdom of heaven on the earth. He desperately wanted the Jewish people to accept him as the Messiah. If the crucification was the will of God how could Jesus pray that this cup pass from him. Was this out of weakness. NEVER. Many men and women have given their lives for their country or other noble causes. Is Jesus less than these. No he is not. He knew the crucification was NOT the will of GOD. God's will was that the Jewish people accept Jesus as the Messiah and that the kingdom of Heaven be established on the earth with Jesus as it's head. (Just like the Jewish people expected). If this had happened 2000 years ago can you imagine what kind of world we would live in today. It would be a very different world. And that is eactly what GOD wanted. Men and women of that age could have been saved by following the living Messiah while he was on the earth. Jesus could have established a sinless lineage that would have continued his reign after his ascension to the spiritual world to live with GOD. Now the kingdom of heaven on the earth will have to wait for Christ's return. But when he returns will he be recognized and will he find faith on this earth. Isn't it about time for his return. It's been almost 2000 years. Mike In article 28885@athos.rutgers.edu, oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser) writes: In article mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes: >The two historic facts that I think the most important are these: > >(1) If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, then he must have done something >else equally impressive, in order to create the observed amount of impact. > >(2) Nobody ever displayed the dead body of Jesus, even though both the >Jewish and the Roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so >(it would have discredited the Christians). And the two simplest refutations are these: (1) What impact? The only record of impact comes from the New Testament. I have no guarantee that its books are in the least accurate, and that the recorded ""impact"" actually happened. I find it interesting that no other contemporary source records an eclipse, an earthquake, a temple curtain being torn, etc. The earliest written claim we have of Jesus' resurrection is from the Pauline epistles, none of which were written sooner than 20 years after the supposed event. (2) It seems probable that no one displayed the body of Jesus because no one knew where it was. I personally believe that the most likely explanation was that the body was stolen (by disciples, or by graverobbers). Don't bother with the point about the guards ... it only appears in one gospel, and seems like exactly the sort of thing early Christians might make up in order to counter the grave-robbing charge. The New Testament does record that Jews believed the body had been stolen. If there were really guards, they could not have effectively made this claim, as they did. -Scott O. ",15 "Re: Fonts in POV?? Hi. The RTrace ray tracer supports 3D text as a primitive, not collections of spheres, cylinders and so on... The 3D chars are made of lines and splines that are extruded... Please have a look at asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] in directory pub/RTrace. In pub/RTrace/tmp there are some demo images with high quality text. All of them are called Text?.jpg (JPEG encoded). See them first and then tell me what you think. Regards, Antonio. ......................................................................... O O / / I N E S C | O | Antonio Costa | E-Mail acc@asterix.inescn.pt | |\ | O | acosta@porto.inescn.pt | | \ | / O Comp. Graphics & CAD | DECnet porto::a_costa | | \| / / | | | / | | Largo Mompilher 22 | UUCP {mcvax,...}!... O | |-O | | 4100 Porto PORTUGAL | Bell +351+02+321006 / \ / \ O O O ""Let the good times roll..."" ",1 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? +>>They used a tank to knock a hole in the wall, and they released +>>non-toxic, non-flammable tear gas into the building. +> Non-toxic tear gas?!? Do you know what tear gas is? But Janet Reno says it was safe and non-debilitating, non-toxic tear gas. She is our Attorney General and she would not tell us this if it were not true. +> I do: once upon a time I happened to be in a room when someone threw +> a tear-gas grenade in (that was supposed to be a joke:). The sensation +> was incredible: I felt my eyes and nostrils were being torn apart. +> I remember us - a bunch of young men in our early 20's - running out +> like a herd of wild animals, knocking down the door and jumping +> out of the windows (thank G-d we were on the first floor). +> I can't imagine this kind of stuff being used against children. I really cant imagine anyone having the nerve to tell the public that the ""plan"" was that the gas was going to make all the mothers pick up their children and run out of the building. And yet this is exactly the story they were out pitching yesterday. ",19 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr16.194316.25522@ohsu.edu> tong@ohsu.edu (Gong Tong) writes: >In article <1993Apr16.155123.447@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca (OPIRG) writes: >> >>For cites on MSG, look up almost anything by John W. Olney, a >>toxicologist who has studied the effects of MSG on the brain and on >>development. It is undisputed in the literature that MSG is an >>excitotoxic food additive, and that its major constituent, glutamate >>is essentially the premierie neurotransmitter in the mammalian brain >>(humans included). Too much in the diet, and the system gets thrown >>off. Glutamate and aspartate, also an excitotoxin are necessary in >>small amounts, and are freely available in many foods, but the amounts >>added by industry are far above the amounts that would normally be >>encountered in a ny single food. By eating lots of junk food, >>packaged soups, and diet soft drinks, it is possible to jack your >>blood levels so high, that anyone with a sensitivity to these >>compounds will suffer numerous *real* physi9logical effects. >>Read Olney's review paper in Prog. Brain Res, 1988, and check *his* >>sources. They are impecable. There is no dispute. >> >> --Dianne Murray wcsbeau@ccs.carleton.ca > >In order to excitotoxin effects of MSG, MSG that in blood must go through >blood-brain barrier that I am not sure MSG can go through or not. Elevated levels of Glu and Asp in the blood are able to bypass the Blood-brain barrier through the circumventricular organs (or CVO), in particular the adeno and neurohypophysis (pituitary gland) areas. The arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus, and the median eminence regions are particularly effected. CVO areas are not subject to the blood-brain barrier. These areas control the release of gonadotropin, which controls the release and flux of steroids governing development, especially sexual development. Changes in adult rats, which are less sensitive to Glu than humans, have been observed: after ingesting Glu, on a chronic basis, cycles of several steroids are disrupted. Blood levels of somatostatin are significantly reduced, and cyclic release of steroids becomes flattened. Hope this helps. --Dianne Murray: wcsbeau@ccs.carleton.ca ",13 "Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon In article <1993Apr21.034751.23512@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu) writes: >We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications. >In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from >the exhaust gas. Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this >thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology. Ok, I'll bite. How is this supposed to work? Tim. ",7 "Ariane v.56 Mission Data ARIANESPACE FLIGHT 56 (Flight V.56 was originally intended to carry the Hughes HS-601 series Galaxy IV satellite, but the payload was withdrawn just prior to flight.) The 56th Ariane launch is now scheduled to place the ASTRA 1C and ARSENE satellites into an improved geostationary transfer orbit (GTO), with inclination reduced to 5 degrees and apogee altitude increased by 150 km. This will be the 28th launch of an Ariane 4 and the first in the 42L configuration, with 2 liquid strap-on boosters (PAL). It will be launched from the newly refurbished Ariane launch complex ELA 2, in Kourou - French Guiana. The launch vehicle performance requirement for this mission is 3,147 kg of which 2,944 kg represents the satellite mass. The total vehicle mass at liftoff is 361,778 kg. Required Orbit Characteristics: Perigee Altitude ..... 200 km Apogee Altitude ...... 36,160 km at injection Inclination .......... 5 degrees The Ariane 42L lift-off for Flight 56 is scheduled on Thursday, April 29, 1993, as soon as possible within the following launch window: Kourou Time GMT (04/30/93) Washington, DC 21:52 - 22:50 00:52 - 01:50 20:52 - 21:50 LAUNCH VEHICLE: Ariane 42L. This is a three-stage liquid fueled launcher with two liquid fueled strap-on boosters. The first stage (L220) is built by Aerospatiale, and is powered by 4 liquid fueled Viking V engines. The second stage (L33) is built by MBB Erno and is powered by a single Viking IV engine. Both the Viking IV and V engines are manufactured by SEP. The first and second stages use a biliquid UH25/N2O4 fuel. The third stage (H10) is built by Aerospatiale, and is powered by a cryogenic H2/O2 fueled HM-7B engine built by SEP. The two strap-on boosters (PAL) are each powered by a Viking VI engine, also built by SEP, which use the same biliquid fuel as the first and second stages. The fully assembled launch vehicle stands 56 meters high on the pad. It uses the Type 01 Ariane Short payload fairing. Flight Profile: +02:21 Liquid strap-on booster jettison +03:11 First stage separation +03:18 Second stage ignition +04:10 Fairing jettison +05:21 Second stage separation +05:26 Third stage ignition +17:30 Third stage shutdown / orbit injection +19:56 ASTRA 1C separation +22:36 Cyclade adapter separation +24:26 ARSENE separation +28:47 End of Ariane mission 56 PAYLOADS: ASTRA 1C is the third spacecraft in the fleet of ""Societe Europeenne des Satellites"" to broadcast direct TV to homes all over Europe. Built by Hughes, it will be the second HS-601 launched by Ariane. Total mass at lift-off .... 2,790 kg Mass at GEO insertion ..... 1,700 kg Dry mass .................. 1,180 kg On-board power ............ 3,300 W (end of life) Nominal lifetime .......... 15 years Span of solar panels ...... 21 m On-Orbit position ......... 19.2 degrees east, over Africa. Transmission capacity: 34 channels in Ku-band, via 18 transponders. In-flight operations: Solar array deployment ............ about 6 days after lift-off First of 3 apogee motor firings ... about 40 hours after lift-off at 4th apogee ARSENE is the first spacecraft built by the European Space Industry for the benefit of the world amateur radio community. Total mass at lift-off .... 154 kg Mass at GEO insertion ..... 98 kg Dry mass .................. 97 kg On-board power ............ 42 W (end of life) Nominal lifetime .......... 3 years Spacecraft dimensions ..... 1.1m x .96m Orbital parameters ........ 20000/36000 km, 0 inclination, period 17:30. Transmission capacity: S-band: 1 transponder at 2.446 ghz VHF/UHF: 145/435 mhz LAUNCH COVERAGE: All Ariane missions are broadcast live via satellite from Kourou. Coverage begins at 30 minutes before launch and continues until all payloads have been deployed. This mission will likely be carried in the US on Galaxy 6, however it could be Galaxy 7 or another satellite. (What is the European satellite normally used for Ariane coverage?) -{ Dean Adams }- ",14 "Re: MOTORCYCLE DETAILING TIP #18 mbeaving@bnr.ca (Michael Beavington) writes: >Don't you just hate when the speedo and tach on your >bike start to cloud over from all that nasty sunshine? >The detailing tip of the week is to use rubbing compound. >Moisten a rag, apply some rubbing compound and work into the >translucent, previously transparent, material. After a few >minutes of working on the plastic face, the dial, or plastic >face will be clear once more. Will not work for glass. >-- >BTW. I am not responsible for damages incurred when using > the above method. Most models can use the treatment > safely. >============================================================================= >= The Beav |Mike Beavington|BellNorthernResearch Ottawa,Ont,Canada| Dod:9733= >= Seca 400->Seca 400->RZ350->Seca750->Suzuki550->Seca650turbo->V65Sabre = >= (-> 1994 GTS1000 ...can't afford the '93) | mbeaving@bnr.ca = >============================================================================= McGuire's makes a plastic scratch/removing compound and a plastic polishing compound which really work great as well. ",8 "Need info on cc:Mail file format I need the file format for cc:Mail file formats - it seems to be PCX-based, but with a twist: only the first page of a multi-page fax will come out readable. The other pages disappear. The format seems to be 'proprietary'. Anybody got any clues? I have to give my email FAXes to my secretary in order to get 'em unscrambled. I want a filter from cc:Mail to .p[nb]m. Come to think of it, p[nb]m to cc:Mail would be nice too. tonyo@master.CNA.TEK.COM ",1 "Re: Ancient Books In article , mayne@ds3.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne) writes: > In article miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: >>[Any former atheists converted by argument?} >>This is an excellent question and I'll be anxious to see if there are >>any such cases. I doubt it. In the medieval period (esp. 10th-cent. >>when Aquinas flourished) argument was a useful tool because everyone >>""knew the rules."" Today, when you can't count on people knowing even >>the basics of logic or seeing through rhetoric, a good argument is >>often indistinguishable from a poor one. > > The last sentence is ironic, since so many readers of > soc.religion.christian seem to not be embarrassed by apologists such as > Josh McDowell and C.S. Lewis. I haven't followed whatever discussion there may have been on these people, but I feel that C. S. Lewis is an excellent apologist and I see no reason for embarrassment. If you think that errors and flawed arguments are a reason for dismissing a thinker, you must dismiss nearly every thinker from Descartes to Kant; any philosophy course will introduce you to their weaknesses. The above also expresses a rather odd sense > of history. What makes you think the masses in Aquinas' day, who were > mostly illiterate, knew any more about rhetoric and logic than most people > today? If writings from the period seem elevated consider that only the > cream of the crop, so to speak, could read and write. If everyone in > the medieval period ""knew the rules"" it was a matter of uncritically > accepting what they were told. I said nothing about ""the masses."" However comparing ""the masses"" in our day and in Aquinas' day really *is* odd. Read Ortega y Gasset on this. I'm talking about the familiar experience of arguing all night and winning on logic and evidence, only to discover your opponent to be unaware, even intuitively, of things like entailment (let alone pragmatics). (I am assuming that both parties are college graduates or better...) Myself, I don't bother any more. Ken -- miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Nobody can explain everything to everybody. opinions are my own | G. K. Chesterton ",15 "Always IN-2000 decent? I've got an IN-2000 working in a (wimpy) 386SX20 presently. In a few months I'm getting a 486 motherboard and probably a Toshiba 3401e CDROM and a SBPro. Will I need special drivers for getting all this to work? Do they exist? Basically, is this feasible, or should I expect to be getting a newer, faster SCSI card? thanks, -Bryan -- Bryan Welch Amateur Radio: N0SFG Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Disclaimer: It's all opinion. Everything. So there. ",3 "Re: Where can I get a New York taxi? In article <15631@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA> tnelson@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (Tim Nelson) writes: >The older NY taxis were made by the Checker Car Company, and I would love >to have one. >Or, is the Checker Car Company still in business? Checker Motors went out of business in 1982. It's hard to get old Checkers that are worth restoring, since almost every one was a fleet vehicle that was driven into the ground. If you can get a body in decent shape the mechanicals should all be available _somewhere_ - Checker used whatever parts were around. For instance, I had a Chevy straight six and a GMC Truck radiator and a Ford rear in mine. > >The model that I am looking for is the Checker Marathon. Actually, you want a Checker Special if you can find one. Good luck. I'm sorry I let mine go... ",7 "color xterm I'm look for current patches for color xterm for X11R5 pl19 ro higher. Could someone please tell me where to get them for e-mail them to me. Thanks. -- Egan F. Ford egan%phony25.cc.utah.edu@hellgate.utah.edu ",5 "Re: NC vs Hunt (Marine Gay Bashing in Wilmington NC) verdict jon@atlas.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes: > > In article , wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wo > > A sad day for civil rights. But typical of NC (unfortunately.) > > If it is typical for the principle of reasonable doubt to be upheld in > North Carolina, then I would count that in the state's favor. > Reasonable doubt dates back to Human Rights. We are now in the time of Civil Rights. Civil Rights are issued by the State with whatever strings attached they choose as the Grantor of said rights. And if that means that verdicts are determined by the needs of the state rather than by guilt or innocence in a traditional sense, so be it. Being subjective rather than objective may make it harder to anticipate what is right, and you may be sacrificed for being wrong inadvertantly once in a while, but that really is a small price to pay for the common good don't you think? --------------------------------------------------------------------- cutter@gloster.via.mind.org (chris) All jobs are easy to the person who doesn't have to do them. Holt's law ",18 "Mac Software For Sale Claris Filemaker Pro Database Manager for sale. Still in package. $240 or best offer. Call (415) 824 6209, ask for Larry. *** DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS ACCOUNT *** ",6 "Re: Win NT - what is it??? > Can anyone tell me how Chicago/Windows 4 would differ from >OS/2 2.x? Believe it or not, I'm not trying to start a flame war, >here. I'm simply curious if there is going to be any feature >advantage in either of these products (I do not consider the fact that >it has uncle bills seal of approval much of a feature...) One difference will _probably_ be the same difference as between OS2 and Windows 3.x now--one will likely have a lot of software available for it and one won't (emulation, with the inevitable incompatibilities that crop up in spite of all the contrary claims, just doesn't count when you _have_ to use a certain software package that doesn't quite run properly under the emulation...). Developers want to channel their resources toward a platform that has a large installed base, and in a case like that the platform that is most successfully _marketed_ (regardless of its relative sophistication) will win. Lamont Downs downs@nevada.edu ",2 "Religion As Cause (Was: islamic authority over women) Bill Conner (bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu) writes: [ ... my stuff deleted ... ] > I don't have to make outrageous claims about religion's affecting and > effecting history, for the purpsoe of a.a, all I have to do point out > that many claims made here are wrong and do nothing to validate > atheism. Bill, you seem to have erroneously assumed that this board has as its sole purpose the validation of atheism. It doesn't. This board is used to discuss atheism as a philosophy, to share posters' experiences regarding atheism, to debunk various theisms and theism as a whole, to share resources relating to atheism, and even to socialize with others with similar views. And of course with the number of theists who come here to preach, it is also used to argue the case for atheism. > At no time have I made any statement that religion was the > sole cause of anything, what I have done is point out that those who > do make that kind of claim are mistaken, usually deliberately. If you want to accuse people of lying, please do so directly. The phrase ""deliberately mistaken"" is rather oxymoronic. > To credit religion with the awesome power to dominate history is to > misunderstand human nature, the function of religion and of course, > history. I believe that those who distort history in this way know > exaclty what they're doing, and do it only for affect. The two forms of theism most often discussed here these days are Christianity and Islam. Both of these claim to make their followers into good people, and claim that much of benefit to humanity has been accomplished through their faiths. IMHO they are right. The American Friends Service Committee (Quaker), Catholic Relief Services, Bread For The World, Salvation Army soup kitchens, and Mother Theresa spring to mind. (Can someone with more knowledge of Islam supply the names of some analagous Islamic groups?) When Mother Theresa claims that her work is an outgrowth of her Christianity, I believe her. Her form of theism ascribes to her deity such a benevolence toward humanity that it would be wrong not to care for those in need. The point is that such a philosophy does have the power to change the behavior of individuals; if it is widespread enough, it can change societies. The same works for the horrors of history. To claim that Christianity had little to do with the Crusades or the Inquisition is to deny the awesome power that comes from faith in an absolute. What it seems you are doing twisting the reasonable statement that religion was never the solitary cause of any evil into the unreasonable statement that religion has had no evil impacts on history. That is absurd. -- Scott Sauyet ssauyet@eagle.wesleyan.edu ",0 "re: Pantheism and Environmentalism KEVXU@cunyvm.bitnet writes: [deleted] > first paragraph and the mention of pantheism. Is pantheism ""perverted"" > and ""dangerous"", or just not one's cup of tea? None of this is clear. I can't speak for Mr. Cavano, but I understood his comment to refer to the idea that unrecognized pantheism is dangerous to Christians. If we unthinkingly adopt pantheistic ideas that are opposed to Christianity, we can pervert our faith. When we clearly recognize pantheism when we encounter it we have the opportunity to embrace what is consistent with Christianity and reject what isn't. We need to be alert, always thinking and questioning. We must examine the underlying assumptions of every book we read, tv program we watch and socio-political movement we participate in. Ideas are important. Philosophies and doctrines are what give form to the events of our lives. They are the basis from which we live our lives of love and service. The command to love God with all one's mind means no fuzzy- headed drifting from idea to idea. > and that consumerism and our rapacious style of living > are so rarely called by their appropriate name: Greed. One Christian who acknowledges this is the Pope. It is a frequent theme in his writings. Indeed, thoughtful Christians from most traditions recognize that consumerism has no place in the lives of Christians. It too is a perversion and dangerous to our faith. Thank you, Jack, for pointing out the parallel. Jayne Kulikauskas/ jayne@mmalt.guild.org ",15 "Machinist Tools Wanted I'm looking to buy machinist tools of any kind. If you have any or know of any for sale please leave me e-mail and I'll get back to you promptly. Frank -- ",6 "Sports broadcasting on FM I am curious to known if there are any professional sports teams whose games are regularly broadcast on an FM station. The only one I am aware of is WYSP in Philadelphia who carries the Eagles' games. If you respond to me I will summarize for the list. Bruce Slutsky slutsky@tesla.njit.edu ",10 "Re: On Capital Punishment gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock) writes: >Regarding the new draft of the Universal Catechism: > In procuring the common good of society the need could arise > that the aggressor be placed in the position where he cannot > cause harm. By virtue of this, the right and obligation of > public authorities to punish with proportionate penalties, > including the death penalty, is acknowledged. ... > ... To the degree that means other than the death > penalty and military operations are sufficient to keep the > peace, then these non-violent provisions are to be preferred > because they are more in proportion and in keeping with the > final goal of protection of peace and human dignity. EXACTLY!! Read that one sentence in there...""to the degree that means other than the death penalty and military operations are sufficient to keep the peace, then these non-violent provisions are to be preferred..."" I don't believe that it is necessary for us to murder criminals to keep the peace; the Church in the United States feels the same way, thus the reason that the Catholic Church has opposed every execution in this country in recent memory. >As is clearly shown by this excerpt, the Church's teaching on capital >punishment remains today as it has always been in the past - in total >accord with my sentiment that I do not disagree with the use of deadly >force in those cases for which this option is justifiable. So what is justifiable? As you stated very explicitly from the new Catechism, the only justifiable case is when it is necessary to keep the peace. Since that does not apply *at all* to this country, the logical conclusion (based on your own premises) is that one must be opposed to *any* form of capital punishment in America. Just my opinions. Mike Walker Univ. of Illinois ",15 "Re: MORBUS MENIERE - is there a real remedy? In article lindae@netcom.com writes: > >My biggest resentment is the doctor who makes it seem like most >people with dizziness can be cured. That's definitely not the >case. In most cases, like I said above, it is a long, tedious >process that may or may not end up in a partial cure. > Be sure to say ""chronic"" dizziness, not just dizziness. Most patients with acute or subacute dizziness will get better. The vertiginous spells of Meniere's will also eventually go away, however, the patient is left with a deaf ear. >To anyone suffering with vertigo, dizziness, or any variation >thereof, my best advice to you (as a fellow-sufferer) is this... >just keep searching...don't let the doctors tell you there's >nothing that can be done...do your own research...and let your This may have helped you, but I'm not sure it is good general advice. The odds that you are going to find some miracle with your own research that is secret or hidden from general knowledge for this or any other disease are slim. When good answers to these problems are found, it is usually in all the newspapers. Until then, spending a great deal of time and energy on the medical problem may divert that energy from more productive things in life. A limited amount should be spent to assure yourself that your doctor gave you the correct story, but after it becomes clear that you are dealing with a problem for which medicine has no good solution, perhaps the best strategy is to join the support group and keep abreast of new findings but not to make a career out of it. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Dumbest Driver Action In mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier) writes: >jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes: >>I wish I had the figures with me to back me up, but I recall >>statistics showing that women tended to have more accidents than men >>but the damage was generally quite minor. Men had fewer but far more >>expensive accidents. The rate of total vehicle destruction was >>*significantly* higher for men than women, particularly in the younger >>male age groups. >>IMHO social considerations are probably the strongest influence here, >>possibly more so than any difference between the sexes. Social >>influences often affect the type of car that's bought and the >>situations the car is used in, and the type of car and driving >>situations have a major effect on accident risk. Thus if society >>expects you to buy a Mustang and race it on the street you're more >>likely to do it, and our society expects that of males more than >>females. >I agree with some of your social influences, such as driving conditions, >but lets get real here. Guys don't drag race becuase there expected too, >we do it becuase its fun! (and we find out whose car is faster). >Guys drive different than women becuase there men. When a driver is >driving 'unusually', I can usually figure out if it is a male or female >driver without looking at the driver. >Social influences may give a person more reason to buy a vehicle that >has a certain amount of character which he or she would like associated >with. Do you change your driving habits when no one is around? Sheesh! I don't know what kind of women they have where you guys live, but there are some ladies here who will blow your doors off. Or at least they will try to, but we just can't let the youngsters get too uppity with us old folks :-). >>My $.02. >Mark B. >>jim frost >>jimf@centerline.com Bob ",7 "teams as organisms; stats or ""stats"" (was Re: Jack Morris) Note: I'm not posting this as part of an argument with Roger Meynard, but as an independent sort of thread. I do actually quote some things that Roger Meynard wrote, but it might be better to think of this as ""sampling"" his post (in the hip-hop sense) because it fits in with what I want to say. maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes: >But the point is that the only decision making pro- >cess used to determine the ""best"" is the score of the game and it re- >lates to the *teams*. Not the individual players. There is no method >inherent in baseball of comparing individual performances. And that >is how it should be, because, after all, baseball is a team game. There's an interesting parallel between this way of viewing a baseball team and some people's conception of a biological organism. In the biology context, we would very likely read ""fitness"" for ""the score of the game"" and ""organisms"" for ""teams"". How we interpret ""players"" is trickier, but either ""organs"", or ""genes"" might seem reasonable choices depending on what point we were trying to make. A ""genes"" interpretation actually might be really interesting in this case, but that would be a different and probably longer post. If, however, we take the ""organ"" view, then our knowledge of biology should make us pause before we start saying things like ""species X is more fit than species Y because of a better organ Z"". Given what we know about the interdependence of organs, we would often be suspicious of such claims. (But note that this type of argument is quite often made when you map ""species X"" onto 'humans', and ""organ Z"" onto 'brain'). On the other hand, some statements of this kind do seem more reasonable than others, as far as we can test them (e.g. 'brain' above might be more reasonable than 'pancreas' assuming no gross pathology, particularly if species Y is a primate). Even when you make such statements, you should be concerned with the functioning of the whole organism, and the possibility that one organ might be more crucial for one species and a second organ in another. (Not to mention the possibility that no organ is particularly crucial in some third species.) However, if we are non-vitalists with any kind of reductionsit streak, we will want to say that an organism is not some completely magical unanalyzable ""whole"" but an intriguing process made up of various subprocesses that interact in ways that are potentially observable. Some of these processes might be localized to particular organs, while others may be distributed across multiple organs. In a way, this is just like a baseball team, except that I think it is pretty clear that the processes and interactions involved in baseball are *much* simpler and less numerous than in most organisms. >To say that one player is better than another is to be able to say ab- >solutely that player A's team would have played better with player B >in their lineup. Sheer speculation. Impossible to ascertain. One thing that is quite difficult about baseball is that perfectly controlled experiments are sometimes very tough to do. But, of course, this has never stopped researchers from doing the best they can, and sometimes deriving very powerful conclusions even in the absence of certainty. Most of this goes far beyond sheer speculation, but even sheer speculation can motivate further interesting research. >If you want to select a group of statistics and claim that Clemens >has done better [than another pitcher] with those statistics as a >criteria, then fine. In this cases, we're seeing the word ""statistics"" means ""summary of observed events"", where the events themselves can be viewed as the output of some process, and possibly inputs for other processes. Thus, if we have any valid notion of how the processes are put together into the functioning organism, data in the form of statistics might give us a basis to test particular hypotheses. >But you have to be able to prove that those statistics measure the >individual's contribution to winning the WS - because that is the only >measure of ""best"" that has any meaning in the context of baseball. This statement brings us back to the concept of fitness again. Fitness is defined in terms of both an organism and its environment; you might be fit in one situation and not another. Moving to baseball, it is clear that each team spends the entire season in an environment including all the other teams in the league. In at least a nominal sense, the division winners are the fittest teams in the league, in that they (on average) had better fitness scores than any of their competing opponennts. But in a real sense, there is a fairly large random component in the performance of each team that is difficult if not impossible to account for in terms of factors intrinsic to (or interesting for) baseball. The same is true in biology. But here is also no direct biological equivalent of the World Series in basebal. In the world series, the random component may be greatly magnified by the small number of games that are played, and both teams suddenly experience huge changes from the environement where they were originally successful. It might be fun to watch, but it's unclear what it all really means. *** Now just one more un-related point: >I have yet to see that any of you can predict a >WS winner with any greater accuracy than Jeanne Dixon. On the other hand, you have seen some of us who can predict the outcome of the divisional races better than a random assignment of teams to finishes, and maybe some of us (e.g. me) who can do this better than the other participants in this forum on a regular basis. But this is probably only due to the fact that a 162-game schedule gives you a little hope that bad hops aren't the only difference between the winners and the losers. Moreover, you've had the opportunity to see some analysis of the World Series situation that makes the strong claim that *nobody* can predict the WS winner with reliably greater accuracy than a coin biased only to reflect the well-known home vs. road effect on winning percentage. >The stats are a nice hobby and that's about it. There is no new >knowledge being produced. Since stats are summaries of events, it's true that if you know the events you can derive the stats. But if somebody is trying to understand the process behind the stats, then the stats produce new knowledge, and some of this might even be reliable, repeatable, and useful. Speaking of which, I should get back to producing knowledge in a different field. That is, of course, if I can produce knowledge even though I'm relying on stats to do it. jking ",9 "Onkyo Integra series Integrated amp for sale: I have a Onkyo integrated amplifier that I am looking to get rid of. 60w/ch works great Integra series not a problem Asking $100 OBO If your interested call me at 317-743-2656 or email this address. MAKE ME AN OFFER!!! Todd -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% (___________________________________ % Todd Premo / / / % Purdue Universtiy / __ __ / __ / % Environmental Engineering ",6 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1993Apr17.184948.4847@microsoft.com> russpj@microsoft.com (Russ Paul-Jones) writes: >In article <1993Apr16.193723.19050@asl.dl.nec.com> duffy@aslss02.asl.dl.nec.com (Joseph Duffy) writes: >> >>How does one falsify any origin theory? For example, are a forever existing >>universe or abiogenesis strictly falsifiable? > >The same way that any theory is proven false. You examine the predicitions >that the theory makes, and try to observe them. If you don't, or if you >observe things that the theory predicts wouldn't happen, then you have some >evidence against the theory. If the theory can't be modified to >incorporate the new observations, then you say that it is false. > >For example, people used to believe that the earth had been created >10,000 years ago. But, as evidence showed that predictions from this >theory were not true, it was abandoned. > >-Russ Paul-Jones >russpj@microsoft.com But how does one handle the nonrepeatability of the experiment? In many types ofexperiments the ""prediction"" is that the observed phenomena will happen again and be capable of being observed. For example, in chemistry someone may predict the outcome of a chemical reaction and then actually observe that reaction repeatedly. You can't repeat or ever know for sure the original conditions that produced life. So it seems we could never say, ""That's exactly how it happened.""As far as we know that event was unobserved. (At least no one has admitted it. :-) ) So unlike the chemistry experiment repeatability and observability, strictly speaking, are lacking. -- +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Joe Duffy duffy@asl.dl.nec.com | | NEC America, Inc. | ",0 "I'm getting a car, I need opinions. I have $30,000 as my budget. I'm looking for a sports or GT car. What do you think would be the best buy? (I'm looking for specific models) Thanks, Danny -- =============================================================================== = ""Hey! You programmers out there! | Danny Phornprapha = = Please consider this: | ip02@lehigh.edu = = | = = Bugs are another endangered earth | LUCC Student Konsultant = = Species needing your protection. | Work: (215) 758-4141 = ",7 "Re: some thoughts. In article <11820@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes: >From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) >Subject: Re: some thoughts. >Keywords: Dan Bissell >Date: 15 Apr 93 18:21:21 GMT >In article bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes: >> >> First I want to start right out and say that I'm a Christian. It >>makes sense to be one. Have any of you read Tony Campollo's book- liar, >>lunatic, or the real thing? (I might be a little off on the title, but he >>writes the book. Anyway he was part of an effort to destroy Christianity, >>in the process he became a Christian himself. > > This should be good fun. It's been a while since the group has > had such a ripe opportunity to gut, gill, and fillet some poor > bastard. > > Ah well. Off to get the popcorn... > >/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ > >Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM > >They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away, >and sank Manhattan out at sea. > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I hope you're not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you' ve given me. Tammy ",0 "Windows -> Motif tools SUMMARY I posted this May 12th: > I am looking for info on products that can take > Windows source on a Unix box (such as Sparc), and produce a > Motif executable. Another requirement is that MFC 2.0 should > be supported. I already know of: > > Wind/U by Bristol Technologies > Hunter SDK > MainWin by MainSoft > > Are there any others? > > I will post a summary if it's wanted. I got a few requests asking for a summary, so I'll attempt one here: Here's the ones I know of: Wind/U - Bristol Technologies Hunter SDK - Hunter Systems MainWin - MainSoft LIBWXM - Visual Solutions Hunter The company is going through some big changes. I expect to eventually see the Hunter SDK pop up with a new name. At the moment, it is difficult to get phone calls returned and otherwise obtain info. Hopefully they will post something about themselves once things settle down. Visual Solutions LIBWXM is a product that I just heard about. They don't yet support MDI or MFC. Libwxm was used to port VisSim, a mathematical modeling package. Does native Motif Widgets, like Wind/U from Bristol. Contact Carrie Lemieux at 508 392 0100 for more info. She's very helpful. MainSoft This translates Windows source to a Unix executable that can switch off between a Windows or Quasi-Motif look and feel at runtime. They skip the Xt and Xm (Motif) X toolkit levels and go straight to Xlib. They don't yet support MFC. They're at 415 896 0708. Bristol This company that seems to be on the right track. Wind/U uses Xlib/Xt/Xm to give a *real* Motif app. They seem to be doing the most work in trying to support things like DDE, Common Dialogs, and more on the horizon. My contact there is knowledgeable, responds to my email, and wrote an example program for me showing how to obtain X widgets from Windows handles. They're at 203 438 6969, or you can email info@bristol.com. -- dls@autodesk.com dls@netcom.com Daniel L Smith, Autodesk, Sausalito, California, (415) 332-2344 x 2580 disclaimer: accuracy of statements corrrelates somehow to caffeine intake ",5 "Hypercard for UNIX Hi netlanders, Does anybody know if there is something like Macintosh Hypercard for any UNIX platform? Thanks in advance Ron. ",5 "Re: Atheists and Hell In article trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes: > >I don't have a problem with being condemned to Hell either. The > way I see it, if God wants to punish me for being honest in > my skepticism (that is, for saying he doesn't exist), He > certainly wouldn't be changing His nature. Besides, I would > rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in Heaven > knowing even one man would spend his ""eternal life"" being > scorched for his wrongdoings... > I see some irony here. Jesus was willing to go through torture to free you from the definite promise of hell (based on Adam/Eve's fall from grace) but rather than allow him to stand in your place, you would give up your redemption to stand with those who do not accept his grace. God would rather have none in hell, which seems to put the burden of choice on us. Of course, this is all fictional anyway since you reject him also. My former sociology professor once told us at the beginning of our term, ""you all start out with an A...what you do with that during the course of this term is up to you"". In the beginning...Adam and Eve were given an A. Mark Haefner ",15 "cpu fans nmp@mfltd.co.uk (Nic Percival (x5336)) wrote: > Just got a 66MHz 486DX2 system, and am considering getting a fan for the > CPU. The processor when running is too hot to touch so I think this is a (stuff deleted) My 66 DX2 is about a week old and is custom built by me and for me. I am using the PC Power and Cooling CPU Cooler. This one has precision ball bearings in the motor. It has a pretty substantial heat sink; so if it happened to fail it would still probably dissipate more heat than the bare chip. It attaches with peel off adhesive. This is a full size AT case, so the fan has gravity in its favor. I would be a little nervous about finding the fan at the bottom of a tower case if it happened to let go. All of the CPU fans that I know of are powered from a drive cable. There are other ""board"" type fans which are ISA boards with a couple of fans mounted on them. They are powered by the slot. I don't know how effective they are; maybe someone else could comment. The cpu is cool enough to touch with the PCP&C unit. PC-Connection at 800-243-8088 has them for 29.95 + 5.00 next day delivery. The Y cord is 7.00 if you don't have a spare lead off the power supply. PCP&C make the best power supplies available IMHO. -- Channel 1 (R) Cambridge, MA ",3 "Re: Can't wear contacts after RK/PRK? In article <1993Apr16.063425.163999@zeus.calpoly.edu> dfield@flute.calpoly.edu (InfoSpunj (Dan Field)) writes: >I love the FAQ. > >The comment about contact lenses not being an option for any remaining >correction after RK and possibly after PRK is interresting. Why is >this? Does anyone know for sure whether this applies to PRK as well? I've had PRK. I would suggest asking a doctor about contacts. Mine said yes to contacts. I think the scars from RK would preclude contacts. >Also, why is it possible to get a correction in PRK with involvement of >only about 5% of the corneal depth, while RK is done to a depth of up to >95%? Why such a difference? I thought the proceedures were simmilar >with the exception of a laser being the cutting tool in PRK. I must not >be understanding all of the differences. No. RK makes radial cuts around the circumference of the cornea, up to 8 I think, and these change the curvature of the cornea through stress chages. PRK vaporizes (burns) away a thin layer from the front of the cornea making the optical axis of the eye shorter. The laser doesn't cut in PRK, it vaporizes. In RK, the eye is cut into. >In the FAQ, the vision was considered less clear after the surgery than >with glasses alone. If this is completly attributable to the >intentional slight undercorrection, then it can be compensated for when >necessary with glasses (or contacts, if they CAN be worn afterall!). It >is important to know if that is not the case, however, and some other >consequence of the surgery would often interfere with clear vision. The >first thing that came to my mind was a fogging of the lense, which >glasses couldn't help. > >would not help. I find my vision is more clear for some things, and less clear for others, only at night. I notice a definite haloing at night in the darkness when I look at automobile headlamps, though this is not something I spend inordinate amounts of time doing. For ordinary things, my vision, in particular having a fully-operating peripheral vision, is clearer than with glasses, or contacts. -- | Le Jojo: Fresh 'n' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live | today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so. ",13 "Re: Government-Mandated Energy Conservation is Unnecessary and Wastful, Study Finds In article ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes: > Government-Mandated Energy Conservation is Unnecessary and Wastful, > Study Finds While I agree with much of this post, one point seems mis-directed... > When standards of living, population densities, and industrial > structures are controlled for, the United States is no less energy > efficient than Japan and more energy efficient than many of the Group > of Seven nations. And when controlled for usage of oil, gas, etc. energy efficiency in all countries turns out to be identical :-) To take population density as an example, one way to reduce energy used in transportation is surely to concentrate the population in dense urban areas (though this might, of course, have other disadvantages, possibly even relating to energy use). The fact that Japan is forced to do this by the nature of the country, while the US is not, does not mean that people in the US would be unable to do this if given sufficient motive to conserve energy. Radford Neal ",18 "Re: Goodbye, good riddance, get lost 'Stars > Goodbye Minnesota,...you never earned the right to have an NHL >franchise in the first place! > Hope you enjoy your Twin city wide mania for HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY >(hey, by the way my old pee wee team is having a reunion in Regina, care >to come up and film the event?) > Yee haa Golden Gophers >Whatta weird town!!!!! What's with you stupid dorks from the ""Western Business School""???!!! First there was that Cary asshole, and now you. Don't you have anything better to do instead of being obnoxious, antagonistic little shits over the network??? Why don't you just take a hike, and stop embarrasing yourself, your school, and Canada! -KEA ",10 "Re: The arrogance of Christians I've just read Carol's response and I just had to get into this. I've got some verses which are not subject to interpretation because they say what they say. They are 2 Peter 1:20-21, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, and Galatians 1:11-12. Also, based on the fact that Jesus is the Word incarnate and he judges people if they follow him (see Acts 17:29-31 and John 5:21-27) and that those who reject Jesus' teachings are judged by the very words he spoke (see John 12:47-50), then Jesus' words are true and do not need interpretation, nor would it be just of God to judge based on his word if it had to be interpreted. Joe Fisher ",15 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes: >In article , pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) writes... >>Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Jeff Cook) writes: >>.... >>>people in primitive tribes out in the middle of nowhere as they look up >>>and see a can of Budweiser flying across the sky... :-D >> >>Seen that movie already. Or one just like it. >>Come to think of it, they might send someone on >>a quest to get rid of the dang thing... >Actually, the idea, like most good ideas, comes from Jules Verne, not (""like most good ideas,..."" please, people!) >_The Gods Must Be Crazy._ In one of his lesser known books (I can't >remember which one right now), the protagonists are in a balloon gondola, >travelling over Africa on their way around the world in the balloon, _Five Weeks in a Balloon_. Not a good idea unless you have helium. Verne's protagonists didn't. They just got increadibly lucky. And yes, I knew the title of the movie too, just didn't want to start talking about it. Except to bring up the image of a team of S. African Bushmen showing up at a launch site with spears and flint knives to stop the launch (anyone want to bet on their success in doing so? especially since they could probably stop a shuttle launch by sneezing too hard within a couple miles of the launch site). -- Phil Fraering |""Seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|Like how the ancient Mayans had televison."" Repo Man ",14 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1993Apr16.173720.19151@scic.intel.com> sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth J. Bradley) writes: > >How does one falsify God's existance? This, again, is a belief, not a scien- >tific premise. The original thread referred specifically to ""scientific >creationism"". This means whatever theory or theories you propose must be >able to be judged by the scientific method. This is in contrast to >purely philosophical arguments. >-- How does one falsify any origin theory? For example, are a forever existing universe or abiogenesis strictly falsifiable? ",19 "WANTED: hard drive. buy/trade (80 MB or more) Greetings, I am looking to upgrade my hard drive to a much bigger one since I find myself kinda cramped on space, althuogh I have never filled it I would like the extra comfort of 30 megs or so. If anyone would like to sell/trade a newish 80 meg or bigger hard drive for 125 straight and 75 with a trade please e-mail me back at johng2matt.ksu.ksu.edu with an offer. I would also sell my hard drive for about 60$ if you really want it. it's a 42MB western digital IDE. Other than that I am not sure what the transfer rate is, but it is pretty fast. faster than my roommates teac drive. I have addstor running on it now and have had it for about 5 months. I have *never* had a problem with it and would guarantee it works upon deliveree. Thanks John p.s. I would love a maxtor 130 hard drive ",3 "Wanted: critiques on multi-windowing system toolkits Any pointers to articles, or personal opinions, critiquing user interface toolkits that operate across many windowing systems (e.g., X, MS Windows, Macintosh) - you know, Open Interface, XVT, Aspect ... If you reply with your opinion, please BRIEFLY state your choice and a short discussion why. Steve Maher maher@outland.gsfc.nasa.gov -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Maher (301) 286-5666 (voice) Flight Dynamics Division maher@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center ",5 "Re: !!!!JAZZ CD 4 sale/trade! Sell it for $10, then. I can't really offer more than $8 at this point. Thanks, Jon ",6 "Re: BMW MOA members read this! cdw2t@dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU (Dances With Federal Rangers) writes: ]I'm going to buy a BMW just to cast a vote for Groucho. I thought you were gonna buy a BMW for its superior power and handling... -- Joe Senner joe@rider.cactus.org Austin Area Ride Mailing List ride@rider.cactus.org Texas SplatterFest Mailing List fest@rider.cactus.org ",8 "Re: Back Breaker, Near Hit!! In article <1r941o$3tu@menudo.uh.edu>, inde7wv@Rosie.UH.EDU wrote: > > [BDC driver nearly rams back of innocent biker...] > > I understand why you theoretically stop so far behind a car but can you > really in actuality avoid such an incident? Suggestions? Glad to hear that the bozo managed to stop. I've only been riding for about two years, but here are my rules for traffic light survival: - I try to *never* stop just over a hill behind a car. If I have to stop in such a location, I pull almost completely next to the car in front of me. If I'm the only one (ie no car in front), I turn the bike somewhat sideways across the lane, to increase my visibility to any oncoming vehicle. Make sure to keep your taillight visible to traffic, though. (NOTE: My bike is bright white; turning sideways on a black bike might not be as beneficial.) - On a flat road, I stop with a bit of room ahead of me (usually about two or three bike lengths). This will (hopefully) give me room to pull forward and to the side as a car approaches. - If you are the last in a line of vehicles, watch your mirrors *constantly!* If you see a vehicle approaching, and can't see any evidence to indicate that he/she is slowing down, get out of the way *now!* - Flicker your brake light. If I'm the last vehicle in line, I will pull and release the brake as a car approaches from behind (noticed the car by watching my mirrors, of course :-). I vary the speed of the flicker, hoping to make the cager notice that there's something in the lane ahead of him. Now, with all that said, it's the situation where you are first in line that I feel most defenseless. If you're first in line, your forward escape route is seriously limited - you can only move forward to the extent that you don't enter the intersection. I leave some room behind the stop line (although around here, the #@$*! light activators are always right up next to the stop line!), and watch the mirrors. I *think* I've decided that hopping off the bike might be the best way out of this situation. Any other ideas for being first in line with no traffic directly behind you? -rob. -- Rob Griffiths | Erasure.ShonaLaing.WildSwans.B52s.U2.JudyBats.REM.Smiths robg@apple.com | FAA Certified cloud basher I wanna drive the Zamboni! ",8 "TEST: IGNORE TEST-- ================================================================================ | Adam John Cooper | ""Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings | | (612) 696-7521 | who thought themselves good simply because | | acooper@macalstr.edu | they had no claws."" | ================================================================================ | ""Understand one another? I fear I am beyond your comprehension."" --Gandalf | ================================================================================ ",0 "RC Car for trade Title just 'bout says it all: Grasshopper Remote Controlled Car for Sale/Trade Features: -$75 racing engine installed (original included as well) -2 sets of tires -Futaba 2 channel radio with servos/receiver -body completly refinished - great shape -Battery and charger -every thing you need to have it running right out of the box, VERY fast -everything 100% I haven't run this thing in a long time. I had it out the other day just to check on it and everything is A-OK. I'd listen to ANY cash offers, but am more interested in trading for some extra storage for my computer. If you have any of the following and are interested in a trade, drop me a line: IDE hard drive 50+ megs (MUST be 3.5"" wide, 1"" tall) SCSI hard drive 50+ megs (MUST be 3.5"" wide, 1"" tall) SCSI tape backup (any make/size) SCSI CD-ROM 9600 baud modem (external) Please leave any offers/questions in Email to lgibb@nyx.cs.du.edu ",6 "Did you really expect Toronto to go anywhere? REALLY! Detroit is a very disciplined team. There's a lot of Europeans in Detroit which would make the game fast, so Toronto would have to slow the game down, which means drawing penalties, as a last resort anyway. Toronto will be a good team as soon as they get more good players. Toronto is just an average team, Detroit isn't Ballard screwed Toronto when he was owner. Everyone knows that. and it's going to take time for Toronto to become a real force. I expect Gilmour to be burnt out next year. He can't pull the whole team forever. Patrick Walker University of New Brunswick ",10 "Re: Pregnency without sex? In article <8frk1ym00Vp5Apxl1q@andrew.cmu.edu> ""Gabriel D. Underwood"" writes: >I heard a great Civil War story... A guy on the battlfield is shot >in the groin, the bullet continues on it's path, and lodges in the >abdomen of a female spectator. Lo and behold.... > >As the legend goes, both parents survived, married, and raised the child. > ....who turned out to be a real son-of-a-gun. ",13 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. In article <1993Apr20.230749.12821@reed.edu>, mblock@reed.edu (Matt Block) writes: > I guess what I am saying is that your question is difficult, if not >impossible, to answer. What exactly do you want to know? Do you need a good >one for a project you are working on? How secure must it be? Are you trying >to crack one that someone else has used? I can probably make suggestions, >assuming the activity is strictly legal. (In general, it is a BAD idea, >legally, to tamper with copy protection. It can also lead to corruption of >files which you necessarily do not have back ups of (being as they are copy >protected,) which can be devestating.) Do you have absolutely no ideas for >practical applications, and are merely curious? > Please clear up those questions, and I'll try to help as much as I >can. May we interpret this as an offer to volunteer as editor for a ""Copy protection FAQ"" ? I am quite sure that I am not alone welcoming such an initiative! *I* will volunteer to ask some of the questions, if you will provide the answers :-) Ketil Albertsen ",12 "Re: The earth also pollutes...... In article , techie@cellar.org (William A Bacon) says: > >FURY OF MOTHER NATURE > >Man's contribution to environmental ""pollution"" are paltry compared to those >of nature. In her exceptional book TRASHING THE PLANET, former Atomic Energy >Commision Chairman Dr. Dixie Lee Ray notes based on the available data, Atomic Energy Commision - Hmm, they would say this. The Earth may spew alot of substances into the atmosphere, but the quality of your toxic output can easily make up for the lack of quantity. Furthermore, the planet is a system of carbon, sulfur and other chemicals which have been acting for billions of years, we are but newcomers to the system - we must adapt and control in order to bring about stability. Also, two wrongs do not make a right, so continuing our practices despite overwhelming data is just ignorance in (non)action. >LOS NINOS >Many environmentalists attributed the 1988 drought in the U.S. to global >warming, but researchers with the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Educated and open minded environmentalists do not. < My opinions are not reflective of my employer - DISCLAIMER > ",18 "Discordian & SubGenius books, addresses etc. As requested, here are some addresses of sources of bizarre religious satire and commentary... Plus some bijou book reviewettes. --- Loompanics Unlimited PO Box 1197 Port Townsend, WA 98368. USA. Publishers of one of the most infamous mail-order book catalogue in the world. Anarchism, Discordianism, Libertarianism, cryogenics, money-making (legal and illegal), privacy and security, self-defense, and all kinds of other stuff that keeps Christians awake at nights. --- The Church of the SubGenius PO Box 140306 Dallas, TX 75214. USA. The original end times church for post-human mutants; a high temple for scoffers, mockers and blasphemers. Be one of the few to board the X-ist saucers in 1998 and escape Space God JHVH-1's stark fist of removal. J.R. ""Bob"" Dobbs, God of Sales, is waiting to take your money and ordain you. Magazines, sick audio cassettes, and assorted offensive cynisacreligious material. Periodic lists of addresses of Pink religious cults and contact points for the world wierdo network. Expect a slow response to mail. Only conspiracies are well-organized. You will eventually get what you pay for if you give them some slack. --- Counter Productions PO Box 556 London SE5 0RL UK A UK source of obscure books. A wide-ranging selection; Surrealism, Anarchism, SubGenius, Discordianism, Robert Anton Wilson, Lovecraftian horror, Cyberpunk, Forteana, political and social commentary, Wilhelm Reich, Orgone tech, obscure rock music, SF, and so on. Send an SAE (and maybe a bribe, they need your money) and ask for a catalogue. Tell them mathew sent you. I've ordered from these folks three or four times now, and they're about as fast and efficient as you can expect from this sort of operation. --- Forbidden Planet Various sites in the UK; in particular, along London's New Oxford Street, just down the road from Tottenham Court Road tube station. Mass market oddness. SubGenius, Robert Anton Wilson, Loompanics, and of course huge quantities of SF. Not a terribly good selection, but they're in the high street. --- REVIEWETTE: ""Loompanics' Greatest Hits"" ISBN 1-55950-031-X (Loompanics) A selection of articles picked from the books in Loompanics' catalogue. Subjects include: * Christian Dispensationalism -- how right-wing Christians encouraged the Cold War * Satanic Child Abuse myths * Religion and censorship Plus lots of anarchist and libertarian stuff, situationism, computers and privacy, and so on. Guaranteed to contain at least one article that'll offend you -- like, for example, the interview with Bradley R. Smith, the Holocaust Revisionist. A good sampling of stuff in a coffee table book. (Of course, whether you want to leave this sort of stuff lying around on your coffee table is another matter.) QUOTE: ""The fundamentalists leap up and down in apoplectic rage and joy. Their worst fantasies are vindicated, and therefore (or so they like to think), their entire theology and socio-political agenda is too. Meanwhile, teen-age misanthropes and social misfits murder their enemies, classmates, families, friends, even complete strangers, all because they read one of Anton LaVey's cooks or listened to one too many AC/DC records. The born-agains are ready to burn again, and not just books this time."" --- REVIEWETTE: ""The Book of the SubGenius"", J.R. Dobbs & the SubGenius Foundation ISBN 0-671-63810-6 (Simon & Schuster) Described by 'Rolling Stone' as ""A sick masterpiece for those who can still laugh at the fact that nothing is funny anymore."" The official Bible of the SubGenius Church, containing the sacred teachings of J.R. ""Bob"" Dobbs. Instant answers to everything; causes catalytic brain cell loss in seconds; the secret of total slack; how to relax in the safety of your delusions and pull the wool over your own eyes; nuclear doom and other things to laugh at. QUOTE: ""He has been known to answer questions concerning universal truths with screams. With suggestive silence. By peeing down his pants leg. His most famous sermon was of cosmic simplicity: ""Bob"" standing on the stage with his hands in his pockets, smoking, looking around and saying nothing. Heated arguments still rage among the monks, often erupting into fatal duels, as towhether the Master consulted his wristwatch during this divine period of Grace."" -- REVIEWETTE: ""High Weirdness by Mail"", Rev. Ivan Stang ISBN 0-671-64260-X (Simon & Schuster) An encyclopedia of wierd organizations you can contact by mail. Space Jesuses, Christian vs Christian, UFO contactees, New Age saps, Creationists, Flat Earthers, White Supremacist churches, plus (yawn) CSICOP, Sceptical Enquirer and stuff like that. Not just a list of addresses, though, as each kook group is ruthlessly mocked and ridiculed with sarcastic glee. If you like alt.atheism's flame wars, this is the book for you. Made me laugh until my stomach ached. Revised edition due some time in the next year or two. SAMPLE ENTRY: Entertaining Demons Unawares Southwest Radio Church PO Box 1144 Oklahoma City, OK 73101 ""Your Watchman on the Wall."" Another flagellating, genuflecting fundamentalist outfit. Their booklet ""Entertaining Demons Unawares"" exposes the Star Wars / E.T. / Dungeons & Dragons / Saturday morning cartoon / Satanic connection in horrifying detail. Left out Smurfs, though! I especially liked the bit about Wonder Woman's Antichrist origins. Keep in mind that once you send for anything from these people, you'll be on their mailing list for life. --- REVIEWETTE: ""The Abolition of Work"", Bob Black ISBN 0-915179-41-5 (Loompanics) A selection of Bob Black's painfully witty and intelligent anarchist tracts collected into book form. If I were this good I'd be insufferable.(*) Probably the only thought-provoking political book that's fun to read. QUOTE: ""Babble about 'The wages of sin' serves to cover up 'the sin of wages'. We want rights, not rites -- sex, not sects. Only Eros and Eris belong in our pantheon. Surely the Nazarene necrophile has had his revenge by now. Remember, pain is just God's way of hurting you."" --- REVIEWETTE: ""Principia Discordia"", Malaclypse the Younger ISBN 1-55950-040-9 (Loompanics) The infamous Discordian Bible, reprinted in its entirety and then some. Yes, you could FTP the online copy, but this one has all the pictures. Explains absolutely everything, including the Law of Fives, how to start a Discordian Cabal, and instructions for preaching Discordianism to Christians. QUOTE: ""A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Caremony to Remonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom (no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat of Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog Buns)."" --- REVIEWETTE: ""Natural Law, or Don't Put a Rubber on Your Willy"", Robert Anton Wilson ISBN 0-915179-61-X (Loompanics) The author of the Illuminatus trilogy rails against natural law, natural morality, objective reality, and other pervasive myths. Witty and thought-provoking work from someone who actually seems to know an argument from a hole in the ground. QUOTE: ""Since theological propositions are scientifically meaningless, those of us of pragmatic disposition simply won't buy such dubious merchandise. [...] Maybe -- remotely -- there might be something in such promotions, as there might be something in the talking dogs and the stocks in Arabian tapioca mines that W.C. Fields once sold in his comedies, but we suspect that we recognize a con game in operation. At least, we want to hear the dog talk or see the tapioca ore before we buy into such deals."" --- All of the books mentioned above should be available from Counter Productions in the UK, or directly from the SubGenius Foundation or Loompanics Unlimited. mathew [ (*) What do you mean I am anyway? ] -- ""Dreamed I laid a toaster... Daddy caught me in the act. Can you take it?"" -- DEVO ",0 "Powerbook forsale I am posting for my brother, but please reply to this account and I will forward the messages. The Powerbook is in excellent shape, five months old, and was purchased abroad. (I haven't seen it) For details, send e-mail. Asking price- BEST OFFER Conditions: Immediate sale, prepayment. ",6 "Re: Saturn 91-92 Manual Transmission Problem I had exactly the same problem with a 1981 Horizon. Third gear would just disengage. Engine would rev up. Kind of disconcerting. I sold that car quite a few years back but the memory of that tranny sticks with me. It also had a clutch chatter in first that the dealer could not fix. If the lemon law had been in place then, that car would have been covered. I have had several Jap cars since then (figuring the Horizon was my contribution to the American Auto Companies), and have never seen any bad behavior with the exception of a Toyota Tercel with a bit of clutch chatter that they did fix on the first try. Anyway, from that day forward, I have sworn that I would never purchase another American car with a standard. American manufacturers don't have a clue on how to manufacture five speed transmissions and have been doing the automatics much longer and on many more cars. However, I hate automatics, so I am still buying Jap cars. Not sure this is any help, but other cars do this too. Cheers, Larry -- @@ Larry Rogers * @@@ larry_rogers@dg.com * Big Brother @@@ &&& larry@boris.webo.dg.com * is Watching @@ && Data General 508-870-8441 * The opinions contained herein are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of Data General or anyone else, but they should. ""Sometimes we are the windshield, sometimes we are the bug"" Dire Straits ",7 "Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico) wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes: >In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes: >>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that >>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim. I was >>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim. I have >>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident. >I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar >guns by police depts (I'm not sure where). Maryland and other states. To the original poster: Read the last 3-4 issues of Car And Driver about this. It's interesting and should be illegal... -- Chintan Amin mail: llama@uiuc.edu *******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA******** ",7 "CDs for sale The following are available for $7.00 each (includes postage if in USA): Ted Nugent - Penetrator Jah Wobble - Rising Above Bedlam Black 47 - EP Marshall Tucker Band - Long Hard Ride Kid Frost - East Side Story Coffin Break - Thirteen Steve Wariner Band - I Got Dreams ",6 "Re: Yakult Swallows (Japanese pro baseball team) Anyone have any idea how to get Japanese League stats regularly in the US? - matt wall@cc.swarthmore.edu In article , yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp (YAJIMA Hiroshi) wrote: > > Tuesday's game of Beloved Yakult Swallows > > (At Jingu, 36,000) > Hanshin Tigers 001 000 100 |2 > Beloved Yakult 050 020 00x |7 > > W - Ito (1-0). L - Nakagomi (0-1). HR - Yakult, Arai 1st. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > CENTRAL LEAGUE STANDING > ======================== > W L T Pct. GB > Hiroshima Carp 7 1 0 .875 -- > Chunichi Dragons 6 3 0 .667 1.5 > Hanshin Tigers 5 4 0 .667 2.5 > Hated Giants 4 4 0 .500 3.0 > Beloved Swallows 3 6 0 .333 4.5 > Yokohama BayStars 1 8 0 .111 6.5 > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > /_____ /_____ Hiroshi Yajima (E-MAIL:yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp) > ___|___ |=====| NTT Network Information Systems Laboratories, > / \ |====== 9-11 Midori-Cho 3-Chome Musashino-Shi,Tokyo,180 Japan, > / \ |_|_| / TEL:+81-422-59-4256, FAX:+81-422-59-4254 > > Matt Wall * wall@cc.swarthmore.edu * Hey, I gotta job here, OK? --------------------------------------------------------------- April 6, 1993: Boston Red Sox seize first place. ",9 "Portuguese Launch Complex (was:*Doppelganger*) > Portugese launch complex were *wonderful Portuguese launch complex??? Gosh.... Polish are for American in the same way as Portuguese are for Brazilians (I am from Brazil). There is a joke about the Portuguese Space Agency that wanted to send a Portuguese astronaut to the surface of the Sun (if there is such a thing). How did they solve all problems of sending a man to the surface of the Sun??? Simple... their astronauts travelled during the night... C.O.EGALON@LARC.NASA.GOV C.O.Egalon@larc.nasa.gov Claudio Oliveira Egalon ",14 "Re: .SCF files, help needed In article <1993Apr22.123832.23894@daimi.aau.dk> rued@daimi.aau.dk writes: >RIX's files with the extension .sci and .scf are just a RAW file with >a 256 color palette. >...stuff deleted... >regards >Thomas > Do you happen to know what a .SCO RIX file is? -- Alex Kiernan akiernan@falcon.demon.co.uk ",1 "comp.graphics.programmer Hello netters Sorry, I don't know if this is the right way of doing this kind of thing, probably should be a CFV, but since I don't have tha ability to create a news group myself, I just want to start the discussion. I enjoy reading c.g very much, but I often find it difficult to sort out what I'm interested in. Everything from screen-drivers, graphics cards, graphics programming and graphics programs are discused here. What I'd like is a comp.graphics.programmer news group. What do you other think. Arff ""Also for the not religous confessor, there is a mystery of higher values, who's birth mankind - to the last - builds upon. They are indisputible. And often disregarded. Seldom you hear them beeing prized, as seldom as you hear a seeing man prizeing what he sees."" Per Lagerkvist, The Fist (Free translation from Swedish) --Andreas Arff andreasa@dhhalden.no-- ",1 "Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time In callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes: >In article <1993Apr13.220105.26409@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes: >>In article <93Apr08.202003.27851@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes: >>>As a long time motorcyclist, I have never understood what >>>posessed auto builders to put delicate controls, which must >>>be used with skill and finesse, like clutches and brakes, >>>on the floor. >>> >>>Why not hand control? It's much much easier. >> >>In the early days, neither of these functions had power-assist, so >>only legs had enough strength to activate them. Since then, it's >>been traditional and people would have a hard time getting >>used to anything else. >Well, where, exactly, would you put a hand clutch and brake? On >a motorcycle, it's easy; the handlebars have a very limited >range of turning. Steering wheels, on the other hand, turn around >and around and around...which is fine for electrical relays (like >your cruise control and airbag)--but how many of you want to >lose your clutch and/or brake due to a short circuit? Shades of the Edsel! They had pushbuttons in the steering wheel hub that controlled the auto tranny. It was very disconcerting to shift into reverse when turning a corner and the wires shorted. >There are workarounds, but there's really no reason to use hand >power on a car's clutch or brakes, and lightening them to the >point that they are ""finesse"" controls suitable for hand use >would increse the mechanical complexity substantially (look at >power brakes and non-power brakes for an example). >>I saw an experimental car that had a joystick instead of a steering >>wheel... >That's about useless, IMHO. >>>Another automotive oddity is separate keys for trunks, doors, and >>>ignitions. Why on earth would you want this? >> >>I know *I* don't. >I want a separate trunk key for security reasons; it gives me a totally >separate, lockable container. For door and ignition....ehhh, the same key's >OK, I guess. > James >James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center >Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu >DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work... > The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC > ""It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has > and all he's ever gonna have."" > --Will Munny, ""Unforgiven"" ",7 "FORSALE=Thule/Silca pump/Blaupunkt/Radar I'm selling an assortment of goods!! They're all in excellent shape (the amp and detector were rarely used). Thule rack with locks for VW GTI or Jetta (2yrs)........ $75 Silca floor bike pump (pink) ........................... 20 Uniden Radar Detector (X and K bands, orig $134) ....... 75 Blaupunkt 60W car amp (orig $150) ...................... 75 Shipping included in all prices. Interested? Please respond by email (whsld login or sldenton@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) or phone (201) 386-2949 office. Thanks! Sandy ",6 "Re: BMW MOA members read this! Oh boy, a little K-bike versus /2 scuffling? Grow up! And that goes for the both of you! I do hope that the ""dump dempster"" campaign works however. I think that he is a crook, and I am suprised that it has taken this long for anything to be done (though obviously, it ain't over yet) On the other hand, I'm not sure that I want to be in bed with ANY of the wackos running. Throwing $20.oo down a rathole might be more effective than sending it in to the club. You wouldn't get anything, but you don't get anything now. The magazine you say? Ever since the MOA politburo installed Don it has lacked any sort of panache it may have had. Ah, but what would I know? I own a /6 AND a K-bike static MOA 20297 ",8 "Re: PLANETS STILL: IMAGES ORBIT BY ETHER TWIST In <1993Apr23.165459.3323@coe.montana.edu> uphrrmk@gemini.oscs.montana.edu (Jack Coyote) writes: >In sci.astro, dmcaloon@tuba.calpoly.edu (David McAloon) writes: >[ a nearly perfect parody -- needed more random CAPS] >Thanks for the chuckle. (I loved the bit about relevance to people starving >in Somalia!) >To those who've taken this seriously, READ THE NAME! (aloud) Well, I thought it must have been a joke, but I don't get the joke in the name. Read it aloud? David MACaloon. David MacALLoon. David macalOON. I don't geddit. -Dave Empey (speaking for himself) >-- >Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. Enjoy the buffet! ",14 "Re: Foreign Media Reaction April 1-12, part 1 of 3 In article <1993Apr13.234600.14061@r-node.hub.org>, ndallen@r-node.hub.org (Nigel Allen) writes: |>Here is a press release from the United States Information Agency. |> |> Digest of Foreign Media Reaction from the United States Information |>Agency April 12 (1 of 3) |> To: National Desk |> Contact: Anne Chermak of the United States Information Agency, |> 202-619-6511 |> |> WASHINGTON, April 13 -- Following is part one |>of a digest of foreign media reaction from April 1-12, compiled |>by the United States Information Agency: |> |> TERRORISM AND WORLD INSECURITY |> |> In recent editorials, Iran was universally recognized as |>te source of the double threat of state-sponsored terrorism |>and Islamic extremism. But beyond this fear and condemnation, |>journalists found little common ground that would compel both |>North and South, and Arab and non-Arab nations to work together |>to combat the global threat of terrorism. For example, Egyptian |>and Algerian papers were in the forefront in charging U.S. complicity |>in the current instability in the Middle East. Those commentators |>asserted that the United States had promoted Islamic fundamentalism |>during the Afghanistan War and had further added to regional |>instability by alternately encouraging Iraq and Iran. The cads! The fact that this is precisely what the US was up to of course is not mentioned. It is a fact that Regan and Bush sold arms to Iran, it is also a fact that they supported and armed Iraq. Still this is state dept propaganda so none too surprizing. |> India's papers weighed the pros and cons of helping the West to |>identify Pakistan's role in promoting terrorism, noting on the one |>hand that doing so could ""bring ruination to Islamabad's Kashmir |>cause"" but, on the other, could also bring India's security apparatus |>uncomfortably close to the CIA and the Mossad. Arab papers continued |>to portray Iraq and Libya as being unfairly treated by the UN while |>Israel remains unpunished for resolutions which it has violated. In the case of Lybia there is the problem that the US only decided that Gadffii ordered the bombing after it needed to make peace with damascus during the gulf war. One day the US is certain that its Syria, the next Lybia. For a strange reason the US will not provide evidence to Lybian courts for extradition proceedings. Faced with similar demands the USA would reject them as would any other country. |> Concerning Northern Ireland, President Clinton's message of |>consolation to the victims of the Warrington bombing was seen in |>British tabloids as signalling a tougher stance by the American |>government against violence by the IRA. The word is ""terrorism"". The problem is that after the behaviour of George Bush the USA has an image abroad as doing precisely what it likes and is in its own interests then comming out with a Dysney scripted sugary justification repeating a fitting combination of the words ""freedom"" ""dignity"" ""democaracy"" or of ""terrorism"" ""dictatorship"" etc as appropriate. The USA could go quite far to mend the bridges with Iran. The people there are rather pissed off because the USA first supported the Shah who they loathed and then supported Saddam when he mounted an unprovoked attack. Hardly surprizing after the embassy hostage crisis but Iran is meant to be the country run by unreasonable bigots not the USA so if there is to be movement it would be easier for the USA to move. First off they could recognise Iraqu's responsibility in initiating the Iran/Iraq war. Providing technical assistance to Iran to get it's oil production back up to capacity would also be a smart move, at the moment Iran is above it's OPEC ceiling. If they had extra capacity they would use it and bring down the oild price further which is in our interests. The Iranian clerics would have an interest in seeking a raprochment simply because a permanent war footing is debilitating. They also need western technology. Phill Hallam-Baker ",18 "Re: Is it good that Jesus died? In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: = In article <1993Apr21.231552.24869@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, = brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615) wrote: = = Hmm, it seems that this is the core of Christianity then, you = have to feel guilty, and then there's this single personality = that will save you from this universal guilt feeling. = = Brian, I will tell you a secret, I don't feel guilty at all, = I do mistakes, and I regret them, however I've never had this = huge guilt feeling hanging over my shoulder. I will tell you another secret. I get this burning sensation in my hand every time I hold it over a candle. The pain does not fill my entire body, and I'm told the longer I hold it here, the less it'll hurt (it'll eventually burn up the nerves, or so I'm told). So I suppose I should just ignore the pain, because holding my hand over the candle is something I just want to do. I've got the right, don't I? Your body feels pain to let you know something is wrong. It's your body's alarm system informing you that something needs your attention. A fever tells you that you are sick, and need some sort of care. Guilt can be seen as that ""emotional or spiritual"" alarm, just informing you that there is something that you've done that ""requires your attention"". It doesn't require a ""personality type"" to become a believer. It requires someone who is willing to listen to themselves, their body & soul. = All I know is that I don't know everything. And frankly speaking = I don't care, life is fun anyway. I recognize that I'm not = perfect, but that does not hinder me from have a healthy = and inspiring life. For several years all I knew is I really liked dropping 'cid (LSD). Frankly speaking, I didn't really care. It was fun anyway. It didn't matter that every child my wife and I want to have are at a *tremendously* greater risk of serious birth defects. For several years all I knew is I really liked having sex with as many women as I could convice. Frankly speaking, I didn't care. I didn't care that I was putting each one of them at risk (as well as their future partners). It didn't matter that for the first decade of my marriage, my wife and I will have the worry that possibly that last sneeze meant something *much* worse than a cold. = = There are humans that subscribe to the same notion. The nice = thing is that when you finally shake off this huge burden, = the shoulders feel far more relaxed! The nice thing about pain killers, if you take enough, you won't care about the fever, shortness of breath or pain. -- Jason D. Smith | jasons@atlastele.com | I'm not young enough to know everything. 1x1 | ",19 "Color problem. I am scanning in a color image and it looks fine on the screen. When I converted it into PCX,BMP,GIF files so as to get it into MS Windows the colors got much lighter. For example the yellows became white. Any ideas? thanks Dan csc3phx@vaxc.hofstra.edu ",1 "Re: (Some info) The DOS/MSW meltdown is progressing nicely ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes: >""The Preferred Applications Development Platform"" >according to 432 of the Fortune 1000 corporations >Survey by Sentry Market Research Survey >(All percentages) > 1992 1993 >Unix 18 28 >Mainframe 35 22 >DOS & MSW 24 18 >OS/2 8 17 >Midrange 14 14 -- -- 99 99 >This is from `Corporate Computing', May 1993, page 28. >It's interesting to see how the greatest vapour-project of the world >has not been able to make much of a difference here :-) >World computer market share by broad category (%) > 1991 1996 >DOS, Windows, Netware 37.0 40.0 >Unix 11.6 21.0 >IBM Mainframe 17.4 14.4 >VAX/VMS 3.7 2.6 >IBM minis 4.1 4.0 >Macintosh 3.6 4.6 ******* >Other 22.6 13.4 >1996 projections are by IDC >Source: Unix World, Jan 1993 Sombody's data is wrong. Since Mac OS, Finder, Systerm or whatever you want to call it doesn't appear in the first survey, I tend to doubt their results more. Just because sombody wrote it doesn't mean its correct. carl Zmola@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu ",2 "Re: *** The list of Biblical contradictions joslin@pogo.isp.pitt.edu (David Joslin) writes: > >I'm curious to know what purpose people think these lists serve. >Lists like this seem to value quantity over quality, an ""argument >from article length."" And the list you have here is of poorer >quality than most. I agree, which is why I've asked for help with it. The reason I'm working on this list is because I've recently had one too many Christians tell me ""the Bible contains no contradictions whatsoever."" They believe that it's true, and that it describes reality perfectly, and even predicts history before it happens. Before I can carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with these people, I've got to SHOW them, with concrete evidence, that the Bible is not nearly as airtight as they thought. I hope to do that with this list. Specifically: when I bring up the fact that Genesis contains two contradictory creation stories, I usually get blank stares or flat denials. I've never had a fundamentalist acknowledge that there are indeed two different accounts of creation. -- _/_/_/ Brian Kendig Je ne suis fait comme aucun /_/_/ bskendig@netcom.com de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire _/_/ n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent. / The meaning of life Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre. / is that it ends. -- Rousseau ",19 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In <1993Apr20.124358.22881@cs.nott.ac.uk> eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright) writes: |In article <15430@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: ||> Yes you are. When you and the rest of the homosexual community ||> pass laws to impose your moral codes on me, by requiring me to ||> hire, rent to, or otherwise associate with a homosexual against ||> my will, yes, you are in my face. Until homosexuals stop trying ||> to impose their morals on me, I will be in your face about this. |Your post is based on the premise that the laws as they stand do not |discriminate anybody, so your argument falls over immediately. Are you Why not try to eliminate discrimination from existing laws instead of trying to add discrimination that favors your group. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com ",18 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article tbrent@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent) writes: >In article goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes: >> Where did you get this information? The FBI stated they were not >> aware of any mass suicide plans, ditto Koresh's attorneys who appeared >> on Larry King's Live yesterday, and the survivors claim the fire was started >> from the outside... > >Actually, ONE of the survivors say it was started by the FBI (tank knocked over lamp). Another said the Davidians set the fire themselves. Actually, that is not quite accurate. Avraam's lawyer has been quoted as claiming that Avraam says the fire was started by a tank knocking over a keroscene lamp. Avraam HIMSELF was quoted today in the Washington Post as stating that he overheard the following words on the second story of the compound before jumping out a window to safety - ""The fire is lit"". Bill R. -- ""When up a dangerous faction starts, ""My opinions do not represent With wrath and vengeance in their hearts; those of my employer or By solemn League and Cov'nant bound, any government agency."" To ruin, slaughter, and confound; - Bill Riggs (1993) To turn religion to a fable, And turn the Government to a Babel; Pervert the law, disgrace the gown, Corrupt the senate, rob the crown; To sacrifice old England's glory, And make her infamous in story. When such a tempest shook the land, How could unguarded virtue stand ?"" - Jonathan Swift (1732) ",19 "SE pricing What is the value of an SE (HDFD) 4/20? -David **** From Planet BMUG, the FirstClass BBS of BMUG. The message contained in **** this posting does not in any way reflect BMUG's official views. ",4 "Re: Arab leaders and Bosnia In article <1sn5f5INNkh6@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic) writes: >>I really disagree with you. That beacon of genocide apology is a >>self-admitted/exposed compulsive liar and a mouthpiece for the >>criminal/Nazi Armenians of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism >>Triangle. > I just love these ""eloquent"" one liners. You are not sticking to the original question. Imagine what it would be like if you were human...impossible you say? >>It could be your head wasn't screwed on just right, 'Clock'. During > This is an old one. You said that to me once. :-) Is that not the crux of my argument? Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Lack of intelligence? >>Need I go on? > Actually, I would like to get a compilation of these one liners, >so that I could print them out and show them to my friends over the >summer, and they can see what kind of clowns exist out there in Chicago. Well, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920, the Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion and national origin? 1) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of Van.[1,2,3,4,5] 2) Armenians did slaughter 42% of Muslim population of Bitlis.[1,2,3,4] 3) Armenians did slaughter 31% of Muslim population of Erzurum.[1,2,3,4] 4) Armenians did slaughter 26% of Muslim population of Diyarbakir.[1,2,3,4] 5) Armenians did slaughter 16% of Muslim population of Mamuretulaziz.[1,2,3,4] 6) Armenians did slaughter 15% of Muslim population of Sivas.[1,2,3,4] 7) Armenians did slaughter the entire Muslim population of the x-Soviet Armenia.[1,2,3,4] 8).... [1] McCarthy, J., ""Muslims and Minorities, The Population of Ottoman Anatolia and the End of the Empire,"" New York University Press, New York, 1983, pp. 133-144. [2] Karpat, K., ""Ottoman Population,"" The University of Wisconsin Press, 1985. [3] Hovannisian, R. G., ""Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, pp. 13, 37. [4] Shaw, S. J., 'On Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies in 1914, ""History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."" (London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316. [5] ""Gochnak"" (Armenian newspaper published in the United States), May 24, 1915. Source: Jorge Blanco Villalta, 'Ataturk,' TKK, 1979, pg. 234. ""They [Armenians] did not refrain from giving in to their racial hatred and committing acts of cruelty and massacres against the Moslem population, which were encouraged by the 'Tashnak' party, mortal enemies of Turkey."" Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: CD's For Sale In article <1993Apr22.055744.24066@en.ecn.purdue.edu> davisonj@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John M Davison) writes: > In article <1993Apr21.232428.21442@leland.Stanford.EDU> ryner@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ryan Tamm) writes: > >If you paid $19.95 for a CD, you're a fool and you got ripped off. > Please tell me where I can get a CD on the Wergo Music label for less > than $20. > foolishly, > John Davison > davisonj@ecn.purdue.edu What's so special about this label, that their discs are going for upwards of $6 more than most retail outlets average prices for CDs? Mark ",6 "Wanted: Slot card with VGA + HDD-Contr. Hello, I am looking for a PC card with the following features: - Controller for IDE(AT-Bus)-HardDiskDrive - Controller for 2 FloppyDiskDrives - Standard(256KB) VGA Graphics INCLUDING FEATURE CONNECTOR (important!) =========================== There *are* some manufacturors/distributors of this kind of card, but I have not found them yet. If you can help me, please mail to: ICH344@DJUKFA11 ICH344@zam001.zam.kfa-juelich.de Thanks a lot, Martin Mueller ",3 "Re: solvent for duct-tape adhesive? > > mahy comments deleted........ > > RONG WRONG!! Butane is used in a BUTANE lighter...Zippo's > use petroleum naptha and perfume.. > BTW...if you wanna find some benzene...take a look at > aerosol spray GUMOUT Carberetor Cleaner..that stuff will > take of the adhesive..and the paint and melt plastic and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This doesn't melt plastic, at least it hasn't melted the plastic bottle that I bought it in yet. Maybe I'd better go check that bottle, its been sittin' awhile -:) ",12 "Re: High Resolution ADC for Mac II In article , b-clark@nwu.edu (Brian Clark) wrote: > > I don't know about the Instrutech boards (though I plan to check them out), > but you need to be very careful checking the monotonicity and S/N ratio of > many of the ""16 bit"" boards out there. The NI boards are very clearly > specified in terms of monotonicity, S/N ratio, accuracy, etc; and the > NB-A2100 and NB-A2150 have all the dyynamic range and freedom from > distortion that you'd expect from a good, true 16 bit converter. This is > not true for the Spectral Innovations boards, for example. To boorishly reply to myself, I found I did have the Instrutech information already. The specs (to use the term loosely) are as follows: A/D: 16 bit converter, with 14 bit accuracy to 100 kHz, 12 bit accuracy to 200 kHz. No specs for S/N, monotonicity, linearity. There are 8 multiplexed inputs sharing the single A/D, so that all inputs are not samples at the same time, and in the above conversion specs the all-channel sample rate must be used. Thus, for two channels, you only have 14 unknown quality bits at 50 kHz per channel. This is poorer quality than the national Instruments, at the same sample rate. D/A: 16 bit converter. No specs for S/N, monotonicity, linearity. Each of the 4 output channels has its own converter. The price for the external converter box (the ITC-16), the NuBus interface board (the MAC-23), plus C driver software and Igor XOP's is $2695. Rather steep. ",4 "Re: BUFFALO 4, Boston 0: Defense!! In article <1993Apr21.142357.14164@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: >Fuhr is proving the Fuhr-bashers wrong, but Boston is an awfully >good team. > Yeh,but : 1.Biran Sutter's playoff record as the head coach in St.L wasn't very impressive. His Blues teams were eliminated very early in the playoffs. It doesn't look like this trend will change with the Bruins. 2. Bruins have never come back to win after falling behind 2-0 in their entire 68-year history. It doesn't look like Buffalo will just lose their next two games at the Aud with the way Fuhr has been standing on his head. Basically,the Bruins will be on the golf course by next weekend. Also,it seems like the whole Boston area has gone baseball crazy after an incredibly great start by the Red Sox(best record in their major leagues as of now). I would say that 70% of the callers to the Bruins' flagship station(SportsRadio 590) are talking about the Red Sox,about 15% are yapping about the Patriots' upcoming draft,10% are on the Celtics and about 5% are on the Bruins. Somehow,no one around here is really schocked the way Bruins are folding early. -PPV Mark ",10 "Burden of Proof I saw one theist on this net talking about the absurdity of one saying he doesn't believe in god, and how can we be sure. The problem with this and other arguments assumes that the burden of proof lies with the atheist. Wrong! In philosophy the one who is making a positive argument must give reasons for his believing so, not the negative. If I were to make the statement elves exist, then it would be up to me to prove my positive assertion, not the person saying that elves don't exist. If the negative in this case had to prove elves don't exist he would have to omniscient and know every inch of the universe. The same applies with god. Give me your reasons, and you (the theist) make the case. Brian Fritts ""You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge."" -Rush ",19 "Re: bikes with big dogs In article <1993Apr14.234835.1@cua.edu> 84wendel@cua.edu writes: >Has anyone ever heard of a rider giving a big dog such as a great dane a ride >on the back of his bike. My dog would love it if I could ever make it work. > Thanks > 84wendel@cua.edu If a large Malmute counts then yes someone has heard(and seen) such an irresponsible childish stunt. The dog needed assistance straightening out once on board. The owner would lift the front legs of dog and throw them over the driver/pilots shoulders. Said dog would get shit eating grin on its face and away they'd go. The dogs ass was firmly planted on the seat. My dog and this dog actively seek each other out at camping party's. They hate each other. I think it's something personal. ================================================================================ Steatopygias's 'R' Us. doh#0000000005 That ain't no Hottentot. Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. AMA#669373 DoD#564. There ain't no more. ================================================================================ ",8 "RBI, RISP, and SLG Off and on over the last several months, threads about RBIs and related topics have gotten me to thinking about how well we can predict a player's RBIs using information about his overall performance and the number of runners in scoring position (RISP) that he bats with. In the Brock2 model, Bill James calculated predicted RBIs as RBI=.235*(Total Bases) + Home Runs. This completely ignores the context, which was all that Brock2 could do, since context was unknown to it. So I thought I'd take that idea as a starting point and look how good a fit to the data you get by comparing (RBI-Home Runs) to SLG*RISP. I've started with team data, using data from the Elias's that I've picked up over the years when a) I could afford them and b) I could stomach the thought of increasing Elias's profits. That gave me the years 1984-1986, 1988, and 1990. (I don't have team RBIs for '87 or I could add that year.) If you run a simple least squares fit to the data you get (RBI-Home Runs) = 0.81*SLG*RISP. The correlation between the LHS and the RHS is 0.86, which is significant at a ridiculously high level. So, I feel like the fit is good at the team level. I've no started to move on to the player level and have looked at 4 players (Will Clark, Ozzie Smith, Joe Carter, and Don Mattingly). I hope to add quite a few more during my copious free time this year. It doesn't do too badly, except the equation underpredicts the low HR hitter (Smith), which may be a fault of the model or it could just be Ozzie. The results: RBI-HR Years Actual Predicted Carter (84-88,90) 400 402.6 Clark (87,88,90,92) 269 269.6 Matt'ly (84-88,90) 471 460.8 Smith (84-88,90) 317 280.6 I think we can make a case (and I hope to make it stronger) that RBIs can be predicted simply from knowing how a player slugs overall and how many men are in scoring position when he comes up. More later, Harold -- Harold Brooks hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu National Severe Storms Laboratory (Norman, OK) ""I used to work for a brewery, too, but I didn't drink on the job."" -P. Bavasi on Dal Maxvill's view that Florida can win the NL East in '93 ",9 ">> Misc. Car audio forsale << o Denon DCR 5490 (high power pull out cassette deck with CD changer control) Features: - 18 W X 4 - Theft Prevention Chassis (pull out) - 24 station-presets (18 FM, 6 AM) - Denon Optimum Reception System IV (FM circuitry-Auto high blend and FM pulse noise cancellor) - Dolby B NR - Key off head release - Flexible fader-internal front amp to rear amp and/or internal front amp to internal rear amp - Auto reverse cassette mechanism - Up/down manual & seek tuning - Music sensor - Stereo/Mono (FM), local switches - Metal tape switch - DIN ""E"" with easy installation lock-in sleeve - Night illumination with dash light dimmer lead - Preset scan - CD changer control Random play: all of tracks on a disc Automatic/Manual search Excellent condition with Manual. Asking $220.00 + shipping o Yamaha YPA-300 power amplifier (car audio) Features: - SELECTABLE 2-MODE POWER OUTPUT: 40W x 2-ch or 90W x 1-ch - all w/ extremely low distortion (0.1% THD) - LOW RFI CIRCUIT effectively eliminates radio frequency interference which might arise from DC-DC conversion - FULL PROTECTION CIRCUITRY protects amplifier from potential damaged caused by overload, short circuiting, DC leakage, excessive heat or mis-wiring. - INPUT LEVEL ADJUSTMENT allows you to complement your system with any audio component - GOLD-PLATED RCA JACK ensures a durable, optimum contact, even under rugged road conditions. - REMOTE POWER links the entire system's ON/OFF with the cassette receiver's ot tuner's power switch. - SCREW TERMINALS allow simple wiring connections - POWER FUSE REPLACEMENT is a simple, one-step operation. - ALTERNATER NOISE REDUCTION CIRCUITRY is effectively suppressed during driving. Specifications: Continuous Power Output (per channel, 4 ohms, 2 channels driven.) with 0.1 % THD, 20 Hz ~ 20kHz .................35W/35W with 0.1 % THD, 1 kHz .........................40W/40W (per channel, 4 ohms, 1 channels driven.) with 0.1 % THD, 20 Hz ~ 20kHz ................80W(BTL) with 0.1 % THD, 1 kHz ........................90W(BTL) Speaker Impedance................................4 to 8 ohms Frequency Response (at 1W, 4 ohms)......10 Hz to 100 kHz (+0, -1.5dB) Signals-to-Noise Ratio ...............................105 dB Total Harmonic Distortion - (at 20W + 20W, 1 kHz, 4 ohms, 24 kHz, LPF)......0.005% Dimensions (W x H x D).....................200 x 50 x 156 mm Weight..........................................5 lbs. 15 oz List price: $250.00 This is one of the nicest/cleanest amp that I have even owned. I am using two of these in my car, this is just an extra one that I don't really need. If you are in the bay area, and like to listen to it first, let me know. Asking $150.00 firm + shipping (brand new in box, never been installed) o Boston Acoustic 861 seperates (car audio speakers), 6"" woofers with seperate tweeters and crossovers. Brand new in box, never been installed, $259.00 at Good Guys Asking $199.00 firm o 2 8"" MTX free air woofers, new in box, never been installed. Paid $49.00 each at Good Guys Asking $70.00 firm o UNGO Box top of the line 5400 auto alarm with 2 twin-buttons remote (patented electronic motion/shock sensor, parking light flasher, ignition kill, panic mode, power door lock/unlocking control, LED flashing status light, arms all doors, hood and trunk, etc.) News in box, $180.00 firm ",6 "8*24 card questions I'm considering buying one of these to offload the internal video in my IIci and to get 24 bit color capability on my 13"" monitor. What's the deal on them? 1) Do they come with varying amounts of RAM? If so, what is the max and min? How much do I need for 640 x 480 x 24 bits? 2) What bit depths are supported? One, 2, 4, 8, 16, and 24? 3) Are all these cards accelerated or just some? Is it true that modern accelerated video cards are (at least in general) faster? What bit depths are accelerated, all or just 24 bit? I've heard that some applications actually run *slower* with this card if they write directly to the screen (or something like that). Is this a frequent problem? How much slower is it? 4) Didn't I read (when System 7 first came out) that the card was incompatible? If so, how was this corrected (Finder patch, some INIT, or other)? Has it been kept compatible with 7.1? Are there many other apps that it is incompatible with (games or important (i.e., non- Microsloth) apps, for example)? 5) If you have a strong opinion on it's value for someone in my position, let me know what you think a reasonable price is to pay for it. Thanks a lot for you input. Rick ------------------------------------------------------------------- Rick Roy Usenet: rick@howtek.MV.com America Online: QED Disclaimer: My employer's views are orthogonal to these. The early bird got worms. ",4 "Re: Octopus in Detroit? Just a side note, squid/octopi made their way to the ice in Buffalo. I still don't understand why Buffalo, but maybe it's lucky. :-) btw, they shovel them up from the ice here, using the shovel used to scoop up the snow the zamboni leaves as it leaves the ice. Although Blue did give some technical directions on its removal, motioning with his stick. -- Valerie Hammerl John Sr. would lift Pat over the boards, grab hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu his hand, and start running around the outside, V085PWPZ@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU faster and faster. ""I wanted to learn how to get that feeling, and the only way was to learn how to skate."" P. LaFontaine ",10 "Re: Monophysites and Mike Walker In article our moderator comments : >Chalcedon was a compromise between two groups, the Alexandrians and >Antiochenes. It adopted language that was intended to be acceptable >to moderates in both camps, while ruling out the extremes. I agree >that there were extremes that were heretical. However in the course >of the complex politics of the time, it appears that some people got >rejected who didn't intend heresy, but simply used language that was >not understood or even was mispresented. And some seem not to have >jointed in the compromise for reasons other than doctrine. There are ^^^^^^^^^ >groups descended from both of the supposedly heretical camps. This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >posting discussed the descendants of the Alexandrians. There are also >a remaining Nestorians. Like some of the current so-called >monophysites, there is reason to believe that the current so-called >Nestorians are not heretical either. They sheltered Nestorius from >what they saw as unfair treatment, but claim they did not adopt his >heresies, and in fact seem to follow more moderate representatives of >the Antiochene tradition. > >--clh] There is a BIG difference between the status of what you refer to as Alexandrians (actually, this includes all Oriental Orthodox Churches and not only Copts) and that of Nestorians. The Oriental Orthodox Churches never even ""shelter"" Eutyches (the advocator of Monophysitism) but on the contrary, it condemned (and still does condemn) him and his heresy. That is why the Eastren (Chalcedonian) Orthodox Church held talks with the Oriental (non-Chalcedonian) that started 30 years ago and still continueing till today, but they have converged on many issues the most imporatant of which is Christology (I have more details of the inter-Orthodox dialogue, in case anyone is interested). So I do not see how the ""Alexandrians"" and the Nestorians are in a similar position. Peace, Nabil .-------------------------------------------------------------. / Nabil Ayoub ____/ __ / ____/ / / Engine Research Center / / / / / / Dept. of Mechanical Engineering ___/ __ / / / / University of Wisconsin-Madison / / | / / / Email:ayoub@erctitan.me.wisc.edu _____/ __/ _| _____/ / '-------------------------------------------------------------' ",15 "Can you share one monitor w/ 2 cpus? I have a Centris 610 & want to get an IBM machine as well. To save space on my desk, I would like to use one monitor for both, with a switch-box. Does anyone know of a way to do this? ",4 "Re: JFFO has gone a bit too far Having read the posted long article by JPFO, I have some observations: 1. This article does NOT claim that the GCA of 1968 is a ""verbatim translation"" of a Nazi law. What it says is that in another place -- the book they're talking about -- they compare the two things section by section. The implication is that the similarities are devastating. In the next sentence, they talk about how in that book they reproduce the German text of the Nazi law, together with its translation. Not surprisingly, a reader could easily conflate these two things into a single idea: that the American GCA is a literal translation of the Nazi law; and sure enough, that's what the whole thing has mutated into, urban-folklore style. 2. The article goes to great pains to establish that Senator Dodd had a copy of the Nazi law, either from his time on the Nurnberg prosecution team or later. This fact is considered highly incriminating, but I don't understand why. The author repeats several times that he is simply unable to imagine how anyone could come into possession of the original text; and yet in a paragraph towards the end, he explains it perfectly: ""If Dodd got his copy of the original German text of the Nazi Weapons Law during his time at Nurnberg, it likely was part of a collection of documents, for example, issues of the Reichsgesetzblatt [the German law registry]."" Bingo. Exactly. Dodd had a *book*, with a series of Nazi laws in it, including the one under discussion. All of the stuff about ""Why would a U.S. congressman have a copy of a Nazi law?"" melts away, by the author's admission. He then continues: ""But if he acquired the original German text of the Nazi Weapons Law after his service at Nurnberg, he must have done so for a very specific reason..."" But there's absolutely no reason to think that this is the case. In fact, as a ""senior member of the U.S. team that helped to prosecute Nazi war criminals"", it seems to me that he would have *had* to have a copy. All arguments about whether the Nazi Weapon Law is really of historical interest (as it obviously is, certainly according to the author here), or whether Dodd personally prosecuted the Interior Minister who signed it, can be put aside as red herrings. 3. Having established that Dodd owned a copy of the original German text, the JPFO article then tries to draw sinister implications from the fact that he asked to have it translated. The problem is, in the context of the charge levelled at Dodd, these two things work *against* each other. People ask to have things translated when they *don't know what they mean*. If Dodd took it upon himself to preserve the Nazi law with idea of someday introducing it into American law, surely by 1968 he would have know what it *meant*, wouldn't he? Anyway, this precise charge -- the main one that I questioned in an earlier posting -- is just silly. Why would Dodd need the exact translation for this purpose? Is the idea that the gun controllers, despite being presumably bent on disarming the populace with the goal of eventually destroying all civil liberties, needed a crib sheet? Didn't they have any idea how to do it on their own? Once again, the author provides a perfectly acceptable answer to his own question: ""Dodd may have offered his copy of the Nazi Weapons Law to show that the specific proposal did not resemble anything in the Nazi law."" In fact, since the law and its translation *were* entered into the Congressional Record, under the heading of documents ""concerning the history of Nazism and gun confiscation"", Dodd's motivation isn't a mystery: he asked for the translation in order to put it in the CR. 4. Even this article makes it clear that the part of the Nazi law that was added *by* the Nazi regime is only a small part of that law. Registration of guns, for instance, was begun in 1928, and thus NOT a ""Nazi-inspired"" idea. The parts of the Nazi law that parallel the 1968 GCA include handgun control of some sort, and the identification of certain weapons as sporting weapons. The JPFO then goes on to list other parts of the Nazi law, forbidding ownership of weapons by Jews; of course, there are no such provisions in the American GCA. Nevertheless, in a rhetorical move guaranteed to muddy the waters, immediately after the discussion of the anti-Jewish parts of the law, the JPFO article continues, ""Given the parallels between the Nazi Weapons Law and the GCA'68..."" -- so as to get maximum emotional mileage out of that aspect of the law. -- -- Don Porges porges@inmet.camb.inmet.com ..uunet!inmet!porges ",16 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption I am eager to hear the legal theory behind restricting exchange of cryptographic data and encrypted messages, given the first admendment; the theory behind regulating the *personal* encryption of one's personal *thoughts and feelings* seems even less tenable. Perhaps if we make a *treaty* with, say, Iceland, to restrict crypto paraphernalia can a good ""end run"" around the Constitution happen... (Treaties -- as someone pointed out -- has the force of any other ""law of the land"". Like the Bill of Rights.) Amendment 1 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Amendment 2 A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Amendment 3 No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. Amendment 4 The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Amendment 5 No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. Well -- at least for a few minutes we had some privacy... -- grady@netcom.com 2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F ",11 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (From: xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu) writes: ]Is it possible to do a ""wheelie"" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive? yes. -- Joe Senner joe@rider.cactus.org Austin Area Ride Mailing List ride@rider.cactus.org Texas SplatterFest Mailing List fest@rider.cactus.org ",8 "should I get VESA controller card? I have a 486DX 25mhz with local bus. Would I see much of an increase in speed in my drives if I got a VESA IDE controller card? I need advice! -- Jimmy Buddenberg INTERNET: jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu Muskingum College ",3 "Re: Janet Reno killed the Waco children In article <1993Apr20.153450.27407@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes: >Janet Reno killed the Waco children. She is responsible for >their deaths. She should resign immediately. She should have >understood that David Koresh was a madman who would do anything >against the children if he became provoked. All the warning >signs were there and she ignored them. She provoked Koresh >into killing the children. Janet Reno, the FBI, et al were nothing but pawns in Koresh's game. He was a madman who was going to hurt the children, and everyone else in the compound no matter what the FBI did. >The situation in Waco was similar to a hostage situation with >a madman holding a gun against the head of an innocent person. >In such a situation, a person who provokes the madman and causes >him to pull the gun's trigger is responsible for the death of the >hostage. Janet Reno blindly stumbled in there and basically >threw a tear gas container at the madman hoping that he would >release the hostage. It's no surprise that the madman would >pull the trigger in response to that kind of provocation. Such a hostage situation has taken place on numerous occasions with the result of the police trying to take the place by force and the result being the death of the hostages and the gunmen. However, this is the first time I've heard of the blame landing squarely on the police. In this country we have a policy of not negotiating a back down from terrorists and hostage takers since that only encourages other terrorists and hostage takers. Richard ",18 "Re: x86 ~= 680x0 ?? (How do they compare?) In ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes: >>But the interesting comparision is how fast clock-cycle chips >>you can get - an Alpha is WAY slow at 66 MHz, but blazes at >>200 MHz. >The only problem is going to be finding someone who can make a 200MHz >computer system. Could be tough. You can order one from Digital today. Cheers, / h+ -- -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe -- -- I don't fear death, it's dying that scares me. ",4 "Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5 I wrote in response to dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe): >[It's not clear how much more needs to be said other than the FAQ. I >think Paul's comments on esteeming one day over another (Rom 14) is >probably all that needs to be said. Was Paul a God too? Is an interpretation of the words of Paul of higher priority than the direct word of Jesus in Matt5:14-19? Paul begins Romans 14 with ""If someone is weak in the faith ..."" Do you count yourself as one who is weak in the faith? >I accept that Darius is doing >what he does in honor of the Lord. I just wish he might equally >accept that those who ""esteem all days alike"" are similarly doing >their best to honor the Lord. Yes, but what does the Bible have to say? What did Jesus say? Paul closes Romans 14 with, ""On the other hand, the person with doubts about something who eats it anyway is guilty, because he isn't acting on his faith, and any failure to act on faith is a sin."" Gaus, ISBN:0-933999-99-2 Have you read the Ten Commandments which are a portion of the Law? Have you read Jesus' word in Matt5:14-19? Is there any doubt in your mind about what is right and what is sin (Greek hamartia = missing the mark)? >However I'd like to be clear that I do not think there's unambiguous >proof that regular Christian worship was on the first day. As I >indicated, there are responses on both of the passages cited. Whereas, the Ten Commandments and Jesus' words in Matt5:14-19 are fairly clear, are they not? >The difficulty with both of these passages is that they are actually >about something else. They both look like they are talking about >nnregular Christian meetings, but neither explicitly says ""and they >gathered every Sunday for worship"". We get various pieces of >information, but nothing aimed at answering this question. Matt5:14-19 doesn't answer your question? >what day Christians met in their houses. Acts 20:7, despite Darius' >confusion, is described by Acts as occuring on Sunday. ... It doesn't >say they gathered to >see Paul off, but that when they were gathered for breaking bread, Breaking bread - roughly synonymous with eating. >So I think the most obvious reading of this is that ""on the first day >of every week"" simply means every time they gather for worship. How do you unite this concept of yours with the Ten Commandments and Jesus's word in Matt5:14-19? >I think the reason we have only implications and not clear statements >is that the NT authors assumed that their readers knew when Christian >worship was. >--clh] Or, they assumed that the Ten Commandments and Jesus' word in Matt5:14-19 actually stood for something? Perhaps they were ""strong in the faith?"" --------------------------- [No, I don't believe that Paul can overrule God. However Paul was writing for a largely Gentile audience. The Law was regarded by Jews at the time (and now) as binding on Jews, but not on Gentiles. There are rules that were binding on all human beings (the so-called Noachic laws), but they are quite minimal. The issue that the Church had to face after Jesus' death was what to do about Gentiles who wanted to follow Christ. The decision not to impose the Law on them didn't say that the Law was abolished. It simply acknowledged that fact that it didn't apply to Gentiles. Thus there is no contradiction with Mat 5. As far as I can tell, both Paul and other Jewish Christians did continue to participate in Jewish worship on the Sabbath. Thus they continued to obey the Law. The issue was (and is) with Gentile Christians, who are not covered by the Law (or at least not by the ceremonial aspects of it). Jesus dealt mostly with Jews. I think we can reasonably assume that Mat 5 was directed to a Jewish audience. He did interact with Gentiles a few times (e.g. the centurion whose slave was healed and a couple of others). The terms used to describe the centurion (see Luke 7) suggest that he was a ""God-fearer"", i.e. a Gentile who followed God, but had not adopted the whole Jewish Law. He was commended by Jewish elders as a worthy person, and Jesus accepted him as such. This seems to me to indicate that Jesus accepted the prevailing view that Gentiles need not accept the Law. However there's more involved if you want to compare Jesus and Paul on the Law. In order to get a full picture of the role of the Law, we have to come to grips with Paul's apparent rejection of the Law, and how that relates to Jesus' commendation of the Law. At least as I read Paul, he says that the Law serves a purpose that has been in a certain sense superceded. Again, this issue isn't one of the abolition of the Law. In the middle of his discussion, Paul notes that he might be understood this way, and assures us that that's not what he intends to say. Rather, he sees the Law as primarily being present to convict people of their sinfulness. But ultimately it's an impossible standard, and one that has been superceded by Christ. Paul's comments are not the world's clearest here, and not everyone agrees with my reading. But the interesting thing to notice is that even this radical position does not entail an abolition of the Law. It still remains as an uncompromising standard, from which not an iota or dot may be removed. For its purpose of convicting of sin, it's important that it not be relaxed. However for Christians, it's not the end -- ultimately we live in faith, not Law. While the theoretical categories they use are rather different, in the end I think Jesus and Paul come to a rather similar conclusion. The quoted passage from Mat 5 should be taken in the context of the rest of the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus shows us how he interprets the Law. The ""not an iota or dot"" would suggest a rather literal reading, but in fact that's not Jesus' approach. Jesus' interpretations emphasize the intent of the Law, and stay away from the ceremonial details. Indeed he is well known for taking a rather free attitude towards the Sabbath and kosher laws. Some scholars claim that Mat 5:17-20 needs to be taken in the context of 1st Cent. Jewish discussions. Jesus accuses his opponents of caring about giving a tenth of even the most minor herbs, but neglecting the things that really matter: justice, mercy and faith, and caring about how cups and plates are cleaned, but not about the fact that inside the people who use them are full of extortion and rapacity. (Mat 23:23-25) This, and the discussion later in Mat 5, suggest that Jesus has a very specific view of the Law in mind, and that when he talks about maintaining the Law in its full strength, he is thinking of these aspects of it. Paul's conclusion is similar. While he talks about the Law being superceded, all of the specific examples he gives involve the ""ceremonial law"", such as circumcision and the Sabbath. He is quite concerned about maintaining moral standards. The net result of this is that when Paul talks about the Law being superceded, and Jesus talks about the Law being maintained, I believe they are talking about different aspects of the Law. Paul is embroiled in arguments about circumcision. As is natural in letters responding to specific situations, he's looking at the aspect of the Law that is currently causing trouble: the Law as specifically Jewish ceremonies. He certainly does not intend to abolish divine standards of conduct. On the other hand, when Jesus commends the Law, he seems to be talking the Law in its broadest implications for morals and human relationships, and deemphasizing those aspects that were later to give Paul so much trouble. It's unfortunate that people use the same terms in different ways, but we should be familiar with that from current conflicts. Look at the way terms like ""family values"" take on special meaning from the current context. Imagine some poor historian of the future trying to figure out why ""family values"" should be used as a code word for opposition to homosexuality in one specific period in the U.S. I think Law had taken on a similar role in the arguments Paul was involved in. Paul was clearly not rejecting all of the Jewish values that go along with the term ""Law"", any more than people who concerned about the ""family values"" movement are really opposed to family values. --clh] ",15 "Re: Braves Update!! In article <13591@news.duke.edu> fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes: >> [argument over ""reasonable"" players and umpires deleted] > Incidentally, a ""reasonable"" home plate umpire would not have been >so resistant to seeking the appeal to the first base umpire, as Gant >requested. If the home plate umpire had appealed to first, the first base >umpire could have wrung up the strike, and Gant would not have been so >upset. If the call had been a ball, and the catcher had requested the >appeal, it is likely the home plate umpire would have asked for the help. Yes, but the baseball rules say you can only appeal a ball and not a strike. There was no decision made by the umpire regarding an appeal. Once he called it a strike the call could not be changed. I thought that the umpire did the right thing. -- Pablo Iglesias pi@ruth.ece.jhu.edu ",9 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article sadek@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mohamed.s.sadek) writes: > >I like what Mr. Joseph Biden had to say yesterday 5/11/93 in the senate. > >Condemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans >and calling that ""moral rape"". > It is easy for Sen. Biden to say that when there are no US troops in Zepa or Srebinica or Sarejevo... The existing UN policy may certaining be wrong, but the US wants to dictate policy, and make Europe responsible for the consequences of that policy... ...Bosnia is a big enough problem for the US to preach about what other countries should be doing with their forces...but its forces are safely tucked away at home in the US. Gerald ",17 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: |> |> Now that Big Brother has rubbed out one minority religion in Waco, who is |> next? The Mormons or Jews? Give me a break. If the Mormons fortified Utah and armed it to the teeth, and were involved in illegal activity, then they deserve whatever they get. You are making a ludicrous suggestion. |> We used to live in a country where everyone enjoyed the free exercise of |> their rights to worship and bear arms. Now we don't. Does that include the right to murder little children? How about killing ATF officers? I do not know much about the gun laws in Texas, but Koresh's folks claimed to have grenades, grenade launchers, and rocket launchers. I am not sure that the NRA feels that this falls under ""right to bear arms."" |> Of course, to Jews and Mormons this is just a broken record. It has |> happened before. Please explain. I do not remember Jews or Mormons (as a group) overtly breaking a judicious (a.k.a. non-Nazi) law and being punished for it. |> I'll bet all you cult haters are happy now, right? Just hope you're not next. Followups to /dev/null Alternative followups set to talk.religion.misc |> ------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.freenet.edu ------------- |> --------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --------- Gedaliah Friedenberg -=-Department of Mechanical Engineering -=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science -=-Michigan State University ",19 "FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY by Robert E. McElwaine, Physicist Ninety to a hundred years ago, everybody ""knew"" that a heavier-than-air machine could not possibly fly. It would violate the ""laws"" of physics. All of the ""experts"" and ""authorities"" said so. For example, Simon Newcomb declared in 1901: ""The demonstration that no possible combination of known substances, known forms of machinery and known forms of force, can be united in a practical machine by which man shall fly long distances through the air, seems to the writer as complete as it is possible for the demonstration of any physical fact to be."" Fortunately, a few SMART people such as the Wright Brothers did NOT accept such pronouncements as the final word. Now we take airplanes for granted, (except when they crash). Today, orthodox physicists and other ""scientists"" are saying similar things against several kinds of 'Free Energy' Technologies, using negative terms such as ""pseudo-science"" and ""perpetual motion"", and citing so-called ""laws"" which assert that ""energy cannot be created or destroyed"" (""1st law of thermodynamics"") and ""there is always a decrease in useful energy"" (""2nd law of thermodynamics""). The physicists do not know how to do certain things, so they ARROGANTLY declare that those things cannot be done. Such PRINCIPLES OF IMPOTENCE are COMMON in orthodox modern ""science"" and help to cover up INCONSISTENCIES and CONTRADICTIONS in orthodox modern theories. Free Energy Inventions are devices which can tap a seemingly UNLIMITED supply of energy from the universe, with- OUT burning any kind of fuel, making them the PERFECT SOLUTION to the world-wide energy crisis and its associated pollution, degradation, and depletion of the environment. Most Free Energy Devices probably do not create energy, but rather tap into EXISTING natural energy sources by various forms of induction. UNLIKE solar or wind devices, they need little or no energy storage capacity, because they can tap as much energy as needed WHEN needed. Solar energy has the DIS-advantage that the sun is often blocked by clouds, trees, buildings, or the earth itself, or is reduced by haze or smog or by thick atmosphere at low altitudes and high latitudes. Likewise, wind speed is WIDELY VARIABLE and often non-existent. Neither solar nor wind power are suitable to directly power cars and airplanes. Properly designed Free Energy Devices do NOT have such limitations. For example, at least three U.S. patents (#3,811,058, #3,879,622, and #4,151,431) have so far been awarded for motors that run EXCLUSIVELY on permanent MAGNETS, seemingly tapping into energy circulating through the earth's magnetic field. The first two require a feedback network in order to be self-running. The third one, as described in detail in ""Science & Mechanics"" magazine, Spring 1980, (""Amazing Magnet-Powered Motor"", by Jorma Hyypia, pages 45-48, 114-117, and front cover), requires critical sizes, shapes, orientations, and spacings of magnets, but NO feedback. Such a motor could drive an electric generator or reversible heatpump in one's home, YEAR ROUND, FOR FREE. [Complete descriptive copies of U.S. patents are $3.00 each from the U.S. Patent Office, 2021 Jefferson Davis Hwy., Arlington, VA 22202; correct 7-digit patent number required. Or try getting copies of BOTH the article AND the Patents via your local public or university library's inter-library loan dept..] A second type of free-energy device, such as the 'Gray Motor' (U.S. Patent #3,890,548), the 'Tesla Coil', and the motor of inventor Joseph Newman [see SCIENCE, 2-10-84, pages 571-2.], taps ELECTRO-MAGNETIC energy by INDUCTION from 'EARTH RESONANCE' (about 12 cycles per second plus harmonics). They typically have a 'SPARK GAP' in the circuit which serves to SYNCHRONIZE the energy in the coils with the energy being tapped. It is important that the total 'inductance' and 'capacitance' of the Device combine to 'RESONATE' at the same frequency as 'EARTH RESONANCE' in order to maximize the power output. This output can also be increased by centering the SPARK GAP at the 'NEUTRAL CENTER' of a strong U-shaped permanent magnet. In the case of a Tesla Coil, slipping a 'TOROID CHOKE COIL' around the secondary coil will enhance output power. [""Earth Energy: Fuelless Propulsion & Power Systems"", by John Bigelow, 1976, Health Research, P.O. Box 70, Mokelumne Hill, CA 95245.] During the 1930's, an Austrian civil engineer named Viktor Schauberger invented and partially developed an 'IMPLOSION TURBINE' (German name, 'ZOKWENDLE'), after analyzing erosion, and lack of erosion, in differently shaped waterways, and developing sophisticated mathematical equations to explain it. As described in the book ""A Breakthrough to New Free-Energy Sources"", by Dan A. Davidson, 1977, water is pumped by an IMPELLER pump through a LOGARITHMIC-SPIRAL-shaped coil of tubing until it reaches a CRITICAL VELOCITY. The water then IMPLODES, no longer touching the inside walls of the tubing, and drives the pump, which then converts the pump's motor into an ELECTRIC GENERATOR. The device seems to be tapping energy from that of the earth's rotation, via the 'Coriolis effect', LIKE A TORNADO. [ It can also NEUTRALIZE GRAVITY! ] A fourth type of Free Energy Device is the 'McClintock Air Motor' (U.S. Patent #2,982,261), which is a cross between a diesel engine (it has three cylinders with a compression ratio of 27 to 1) and a rotary engine (with solar and planetary gears). It burns NO FUEL, but becomes self-running by driving its own air compressor. This engine also generates a lot of heat, which could be used to heat buildings; and its very HIGH TORQUE makes it ideal for large trucks, preventing their slowing down when climbing hills. [David McClintock is also the REAL original Inventor of the automatic transmission, differential, and 4-wheel drive.] Crystals may someday be used to supply energy, as shown in the Star Trek shows, perhaps by inserting each one between metal capacitor plates and bombarding it with a beam of particles from a small radioactive source like that used in a common household smoke detector. One other energy source should be mentioned here, despite the fact that it does not fit the definition of Free Energy. A Bulgarian-born American Physicist named Joseph Maglich has invented and partially developed an atomic FUSION reactor which he calls 'Migma', which uses NON-radioactive deuterium as a fuel [available in nearly UNLIMITED quantities from sea water], does NOT produce radioactive waste, can be converted DIRECTLY into electricity (with-OUT energy-wasting steam turbines), and can be constructed small enough to power a house or large enough to power a city. And UNLIKE the ""Tokamaks"" and laser fusion MONSTROSITIES that we read about, Migma WORKS, already producing at least three watts of power for every watt put in. [""New Times"" (U.S. version), 6-26-78, pages 32-40.] And then there are the 'cold fusion' experiments that have been in the news lately, originally conducted by University of Utah researchers B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann. Some U.S. Navy researchers at the China Lake Naval Weapons Center in California, under the direction of chemist Melvin Miles, finally took the trouble to collect the bubbles coming from such an apparatus, had them analyzed with mass-spectrometry techniques, and found HELIUM 4, which PROVES that atomic FUSION did indeed take place, and enough of it to explain the excess heat generated. There are GOOD INDICATIONS that the two so-called ""laws"" of thermodynamics are NOT so ""absolute"". For example, the late Physicist Dewey B. Larson developed a comprehensive GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, which he calls the 'Reciprocal System', (which he describes in detail in several books such as ""Nothing But Motion"" (1979) and ""The Universe of Motion"" (1984)), in which the physical universe has TWO DISTINCT HALVES, the material half and an anti-matter half, with a CONTINUOUS CYCLE of matter and energy passing between them, with-OUT the ""heat death"" predicted by thermodynamic ""laws"". His Theory explains the universe MUCH BETTER than modern orthodox theories, including phenomena that orthodox physicists and astronomers are still scratching their heads about, and is SELF-CONSISTENT in every way. Some Free Energy Devices might be tapping into that energy flow, seemingly converting ""low-quality energy"" into ""high-quality energy"". Also, certain religious organizations such as 'Sant Mat' and 'Eckankar' teach their Members that the physical universe is only the LOWEST of at least a DOZEN major levels of existence, like parallel universes, or analogous to TV channels, as described in books like ""The Path of the Masters"", by Dr. Julian Johnson, 1939, and ""Eckankar: The Key to Secret Worlds"", by Sri Paul Twitchell, 1969. For example, the next level up from the physical universe is commonly called the 'Astral Plane'. Long-time Members of these groups have learned to 'Soul Travel' into these higher worlds and report on conditions there. It seems plausible that energy could flow down from these higher levels into the physical universe, or be created at the boundary between them, given the right configuration of matter to channel it. This is supported by many successful laboratory-controlled experiments in PSYCHO-KINESIS throughout the world, such as those described in the book ""Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain"". In terms of economics, the market has FAILED. Inventors do not have enough money and other resources to fully develop and mass-produce Free Energy Equipment, and the conventional energy producer$ have no desire to do so because of their VE$TED INTERE$T$. The government is needed to intervene. If the government does not intervene, then the total supply of energy resources from the earth will continue to decline and will soon run out, prices for energy will increase, and pollution and its harmful effects (including the 'GREENHOUSE EFFECT', acid rain, smog, radioactive contamination, oil spills, rape of the land by strip mining, etc.) will continue to increase. The government should SUBSIDIZE research and development of Free Energy by Inventors and universities, subsidize private production (until the producers can make it on their own), and subsidize consumption by low-income consumers of Free Energy Hardware. The long-range effects of such government intervention would be wide-spread and profound. The quantity of energy demanded from conventional energy producer$ (coal mining companie$, oil companie$ and countries, electric utilitie$, etc.) would drop to near zero, forcing their employees to seek work elsewhere. Energy resources (coal, uranium, oil, and gas) would be left in the ground. Prices for conventional energy supplies would also drop to near zero, while the price of Free Energy Equipment would start out high but drop as supply increases (as happened with VCR's, personal computers, etc.). Costs of producing products that require large quantities of energy to produce would decrease, along with their prices to consumers. Consumers would be able to realize the ""opportunity costs"" of paying electric utility bills or buying home heating fuel. Tourism would benefit and increase because travelers would not have to spend their money for gasoline for their cars. Government tax revenue from gasoline and other fuels would have to be obtained in some other way. AND ENERGY COULD NO LONGER BE USED AS A MOTIVE OR EXCUSE FOR MAKING WAR. Many conventional energy producer$ would go out of business, but society as a whole, and the earth's environment and ecosystems, would benefit greatly. It is the People, that government should serve, rather than the big corporation$ and bank$. For more information, answers to your questions, etc., please consult my CITED SOURCES (patents, articles, books). UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. Robert E. McElwaine B.S., Physics, UW-EC ",0 "Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions In article <1qugvu$ai8@quad.wfunet.wfu.edu> hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen) writes: > >Thanx to all those who responded, particularly those ""never driven an XXX >but here's what it's like:"" guys... > >OK, we all know that new-age AT's are great in traffic, and do a satisfactory >job in acceleration when you keep your foot buried in the carpet. > >My question regards downshifting. NOT downshifting to pass (AT's are >good at this now), but manually moving the lever to 3, 2, or 1 at a point >where you would downshift a manual-- e.g. approaching a red light, or a >curve, or just tooling around a parking lot in 1st or 2nd w/o shifting. >This is why I'm still a Manual-Trans Bigot-- the downshifting for >deceleration seems so natural. When I try this in an automatic, the >tranny doesn't seem to understand what I want. > >Addendum-- isn't it great, after downshifting while approaching that >red light, when the light goes green, and you're already on-cam >(or the turbo's already spooled up!) -- zippppppppppp! > >Hagen. (hagenjd@ac.wfu.edu) > i have a grand am with auto and quad4. around the gear selector there is a plastic strip which covers the space so you can't see inside. anyway...i took the cover off and cut the end of this long strip to a specific length, the strip curls up into a cirlce at one end inside. anyway, by doing this the strip can't feed into the lip that circles it,,,,so...i can push button, pull down and the gear shifter will only go back to 2 from drive,,,no accidental hitting first. i drive around town in 2 to keep the revs up. shift to drive above 50 and pull down to 2 when coming up to lights..if i want. if i am eating food...i drive in drive. there are probably aftermarket shift kits that will accomplish the same thing. porsche's tip-tronic automatic can be driven like an auto...or put into +/- mode. tip up...upshift...tip down... downshift. of course there is an override so you don't redline the engine. ",7 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. positional stuff. henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1993Apr29.010847.1@vax1.mankato.msus.edu> belgarath@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes: >> Actually, my advisor, another classmate of mine, and me were talking >>the other day about putting just one detector on one of the Pluto satellites. >>THen we realized that the satellite alone is only carrying something like 200 >>pounds of eq. Well, a BATSE detector needs lead shielding to protect it, >>and 1 alone weighs about 200 pounds itself. >Actually, the situation is even worse than that. The *total mass* of the >Pluto Fast Flyby spacecraft is only 250ish pounds, and most of that is >support equipment like power and communications. The mass available for >instruments is maybe 10% of that. I don't think a BATSE will fit... From the Pluto Fast Flyby Instrument definition research anouncemnet, the instrument payload constraints are: Mass allocation - 7 kilograms (15.4 lbs) Power allocation - 6 watts Required instruments: Visible imaging system (1024x1024 CCD, 750 mm fl, f/10 optics) IR mapping spectrometer (256x256 HgCdTe array, 0.3% energy resolution) UV spectrometer (55-200 nm, 0.5 nm resolution) Radio science (ultrastable oscilator incorporated in telecom system) ultrastable means 10^-14. This doesn't leave much room for payloads which are totally unrelated to the mission of the spacecraft. In addition, the power will come from a radioisotope thermal generator, and the whole space craft will be about 2 feet in diameter, with no booms, which means there will be strong gamma-lines from Pu-239 and associated schmutz in the background, which tends to reduce sensitivity somewhat. It would still be nice, and our group here at Goddard is looking in to it. -- David M. Palmer palmer@alumni.caltech.edu palmer@tgrs.gsfc.nasa.gov ",14 "Re: HELP for Kidney Stones .............. In article jeffs@sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva) writes: >pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu wrote: >move a little, the pain will be excrutiating. I was told by my doctor >at that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes, >by a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd >really like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who >have had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. I've had neither a baby nor a kidney stone, but according to my aunt, who has had plenty of both, a kidney stone is worse. --Barbara ",13 "Re: Clipper considered harmful [Restated and amplified] In article <1993Apr26.145937.3570@wdl.loral.com> koontzd@phobos.lrmsc.loral.com (David Koontz ) writes: >>Clipper also allows an extraordinary opportunity for the criminal to >>conceal use of super-encryption. An automated full-system surveillance >>mechanism (quite feasible across radio bandwidth) which knows family key F, >>can validate Clipper wrappers and N:ESN associations, but it cannot reveal >>in realtime the use of super-encryption, unless it knows all unit keys, >>which we are being assured are only to be made available in two separate >>pieces, upon specific wiretap-like order. > >The serial number will be in a 64 bit block, with a 34 bit filler. Doesn't >take a lot to check to see if that is correct. Yes, but the extra encryption could be applied *before* the message is encrypted by the Clipper, so that the wrapper would be fine, the phone's serial number and the session key would be in the law-enforcement field, etc., but the message wouldn't be readable even if the particular Clipper's key were obtained from the escrow agents. In fact, it shouldn't even be possible to detect that a message has been double-encrypted without a court order, right? ",11 "Re: The Tories could win the ""lottery""...Clinton GST? In article <1993Apr16.083029.12516@umr.edu> ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) w rites: >In article <1993Apr16.031616.23130@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rscharfy@magnus. acs.ohio-state.edu (Ryan C Scharfy) writes: >> >>This country is hardly ruined. In fact, it is booming compared to after the >>1980 election. >> >>This whole ""USA has gone to hell and Reagan/Bush caused it"", is not only lame , >>pathetic, and old....... it's wrong. >> >>Under Reagan/Bush the economy grew by 1.1 trillion dollars. This is more tha n >>the entire economy of Germany, a ""kind, gentle"" country, in many peoples' >>books. What a joke. > >Drive down to Cincinnati and take a look. Not pretty, is it? But drive UP to Cleveland and it is about 10,000 times better. I from Toledo originally (but that place always as sucked as long as I've been on the planet. >Things were much better there in 1980. All that growth went into >the hands of Ron and Georgie's pals, and I DIDN'T GET A SINGLE >DIME OF IT, DAMMIT. And, now, I'm gonna be bled to death by tax >leeches to pay for the damage. F***ing great. Republicans have been trying to pass a balanced budget amendment for the last ten years. > >Oh, here's another thing. Seems like a lot of people in >Columbus drive over to Marysville and make Japanese cars. Hm. Because for a while, the American companies couln't even compete in THEIR OWN COUNTRY, where free trade isn't even an issue. However, even the automobile pendelum has swung back to the Big 3. >I wonder how many American-owned companies employ those in >Central Ohio? Other than Ohio State University. :) Oh, I don't know. It's probably in the tens of thousands. Ryan ",18 "Re: HELP...REFLUX ESOPHAGITIS Please post your results, a close friend has this condition and has asked these same questions. ",13 "Re: Windows for WorkGroups and LAN Workplace >Hey, sounds great. Does that mean that W4WG works with ODI? I thought it >uses NDIS. WFWG does use NDIS but it cooperates well with the NDIS shim for ODI. (I've heard that it is as fast as NDIS direct) > >My problem is that Lan Workplace with all its drivers uses up most of my >UMBs, so I'd hate to have to load many more drivers to make W4WG work >along. The additional TSR load is minimal. I think I eat another 20K total. This is worth it to me since it allows me to get to my Windows NT box. Novell hasn't released a decent NT Novell client yet so I share through my WFWG box. This solution is very usable. ",2 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article , jhallen@world.std.com (Joseph H Allen) writes: |> In article <1qvk8sINN9vo@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes: |> |> It was interesting to watch the 700 club today. Pat Robertson said that the |> ""Branch Dividians had met the firey end for worshipping their false god."" He |> also said that this was a terrible tragedy and that the FBI really blew it. I don't necessarily agree with Pat Robertson. Every one will be placed before the judgement seat eventually and judged on what we have done or failed to do on this earth. God allows people to choose who and what they want to worship. Worship of money is one of the greatest religions in this country. I do agree that it was a terrible tragedy and, yes, the FBI blew it. |> However, I still feel that he's forgetting that every major religion in the |> world had a similarly humble 'cult-status' beginning- even, and perhaps |> especially, christianity. Cult status, maybe, but they didn't have to take up arms to protect themselves. As you may recall, the early Christians were pacifists preferring to avoid physical confrontation rather than dealing with it in like manner. Why else do you think the apostles were thrown into jail so often and beaten up for the sake of their beliefs? |> It is perhaps worthwhile to consider that the |> Branch Dividians' apocalyptic prophecies have been fulfilled. Self-fulfilled. I heard that Koresh was predicting that the FBI would be the ones to burn. It doesn't take any great insight to light yourself on fire, maybe perverse delusion. |> Maybe David |> Koresh really was Jesus Christ (sure sounds like a neat opening epic for a |> new major religion to me). |> -- NOT! He was an egomaniac who had the attention of the entire world for a brief moment in time. Rather than live with the shame of being taken captive by the FBI, Koresh chose to kill himself and his followers. Sick and . . . sad. |> /* jhallen@world.std.com (192.74.137.5) */ /* Joseph H. Allen */ |> int a[1817];main(z,p,q,r){for(p=80;q+p-80;p-=2*a[p])for(z=9;z--;)q=3&(r=time(0) |> +r*57)/7,q=q?q-1?q-2?1-p%79?-1:0:p%79-77?1:0:p<1659?79:0:p>158?-79:0,q?!a[p+q*2 |> ]?a[p+=a[p+=q]=q]=q:0:0;for(;q++-1817;)printf(q%79?""%c"":""%c\n"","" #""[!a[q-1]]);} ",18 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? >In article <1993Apr21.180216.7431@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes: >> >> And the survivors claim the fire was started from the outside. Outside >>meaning outside the compound? > > No, they meant that BD's did not set the place on fire. According to the latest of CNN reports, one BD said they started the fire themselves, and one said the FBI did it. Now, given the choise of two, which do you belive? It's hard to answer, but add that to the latest reports (again from CNN, if I remember correctly), that several kersone containers were inside the compund, make me believe the first guy. > >Yes, the FBI reported seeing two people >>(according to CNN reports) using torches to set the compound on fire. They >>were outside. > > That was the initial claim, but I do not believe it has been repeated > since. Anyway, I'd like to see a tape. The FBI surely videotaped > the whole operation. All conversations must have been recorded too. Me too. We'll see if it comes up. More info on the ""listening devices"" is coming on CNN now...I can't keep up with all this. Though, the FBI says that they heard no plans of a mass suicide. > How come the two were not shot by the FBI snipers? After the initial fiasco where the ATF went in with guns blazing, I seriously doubt the American public would care much for the ""assassination"" of two people, no matter what they were doing. >> Either way, I have evidence to support the theory that the BD's burned >>themselves. > > What evidence? See above. One BD admitted that they started the fires themselves. It's possible he's lying, but I don't see what the BD's would gain from that. It only implicates them more. Granted, it's very weak evidence, and everything is going to be in a different later on. But for now, there is more evidence to suggest that the FBI *did not* intentionally destroy the BD's, which is what the initial poster claimed. Again, as more information becomes available, things may change. >> You made a serious implication that the FBI was responsible >>for the fire and the ""destruction of the people"". > All you have done is >>put doubt on who started the fire without providing any evidence to back >>up your claim that the FBI was responsible. > > That is what the survivors claim. I'd like to see some evidence > that people that everyone agrees were not going to commit suecide > actually did it. I'm not sure I understand that last sentance...can you re-state it? -- John Mechalas ""I'm not an actor, but mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu I play one on TV."" Aero Engineering, Purdue University #include disclaimer.h ",18 "Re: Just what is in the Jobs/Pork bill? In article mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes: >This was in Wed. WSJ. > >[start] >The white house, seeking to mount public pressure on GOP senators, bombarded >news outlets in some senator's home states with news releases warning that >certain projects may not be funded if the $16billion stimulus bill isn't >passed. > >None of the projects mentioned are actually in the bill, rather they are >part of a wish list that may be funded from the $2.56 billion in >Community Development Block Grants. > >... > >[end] > >I could have sworn I heard a bunch of Clintonites going on and on, raving >about how dishonest it was that the Rebublicans were taking items from this >wish list in order to ridicule this bill. Now that Clinton is using that >same list in order to garner support for the bill, are you guys going to >do the honorable thing and say that Clinton is being dishonest. As one of the ""Clintonites"" cited above, I'll try to clarify since this is not a case of Clinton's ""dishonesty."" (I won't necessarily defend him on other issues.) There were NEVER any specific projects included in the Community Development Block Grant portion of the President's proposal. Congressional Republicans, in an effort to discredit the stimulus package, selected what they felt were silly sounding projects from a wish-list of POTENTIAL projects prepared by the US Mayors' Conference before the stimulus package was ever proposed. (The document in question was designed to pressure the White House to increase the size of the block grant proposal submitted to Congress. It didn't work.) The $2.56(?) billion proposed in the stimulus package came nowhere close to covering the total estimated cost of the original wish-list. If it were passed, communities would have to select which projects to fund and at what level. In the case of Spokane, Wa., Tom Foley's home district, no one ever expected to be able to refurbish a local swimming pool (one of the Republicans' examples) FROM THE FUNDS AVAILABLE IN THE STIMULUS PACKAGE since the estimated cost of doing so exceeded the total amount of block grant funds the city would receive from the stimulus package for ALL projects. The plan, instead, was to use the money on public housing construction and remodeling to cope with a severe housing shortage. (Yup, there are places where that is true.) The swimming pool improvements were near the bottom of a long list of priorities prepared by the city. The $3 million or so to be received would cover only a few of the most pressing priorities. If the block grants are cut from the stimulus package, it is these projects that will be affected by the lack of funds. And that is why the Clinton administration has been publicizing the issue. A final point. One may or may not like community block grants. It is worth noting, however, that Congressional Republicans' opposition to them is new. Since the Nixon administration, Republicans have generally supported such grants as an alternative to targeted federal spending, arguing that local governments are far better able to determine spending priorities than ""Washington bureaucrats."" Is it clear now? Or is this all too complicated to understand? jsh -- Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM ""One thing about data, it sure does cut| UUCP: ...!uunet!isc-br!thor!steveh the bulls**t."" - R. Hofferbert | Ma Bell: 509 838-8826 ",18 "Re: Hhy won't my DOS apps run in a window?! In article <735417915snz@sigma.demon.co.uk> jason@sigma.demon.co.uk writes: >Can somebody help me out there? I have just purchased Win 3.1 and I just >can't get DOS apps (text mode apps) to run in a window on their own. I've >tried mucking around with the PIF settings etc, but to no avail. What am >I doing wrong? (I didn't get this problem under v3.0). > Are you sure you're running in 386-enhanced mode? (Windows 3.1 takes more memory...) ",2 "Re: Cache card for IIsi Hi, I bought a while ago a Cache Card w/ FPU from Techworks. It was 219$. I think that was the cheapest I ever saw. Peter ",4 "Re: Welcome to Police State USA In article rlglende@netcom.com (Robert Lewis Glendenning) writes: >Has anybody heard an explanation of why the FBI was using tear gas >in a 35 mph wind? First, a tank drove through the wall into the living room. I can't stop thinking about the children who were inside the house (the room?) at the time. How many people got killed during the Tiannamen Square events? > >Doesn't seem like vry good tactics to me ... > >Any other explanations? > >Lew >-- >Lew Glendenning rlglende@netcom.com >""Perspective is worth 80 IQ points."" Niels Bohr (or somebody like that). -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",18 "Re: And America's Team is....But Why? kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) writes: > Well, officially it's the Braves. At least up until they started winning > it was. Are they still, officially? > If so, why? and how did they receive this label? > > Unoffically, but without a doubt, America's Team is the Cubs. Why? > Well, my guess is because America loves underdogs. Every year, no matter > the Cubs' talent or the predictions, they never (as close to never as > possible) win anything. Over the years, as the losing has mounted, America > has fallen in love with these perennial losers. The Cubs have more fans > in Chicago then some teams do worldwide. The Cubs have more fans > worldwide than most of the teams in their division combined. > An aura of excitement surrounds the Cubs at the beginning of the season > like no one else. (including the WS champs) It must be that Eternal Hope. > ""this is the year. they've got the talent. they're off to a good start. > they've got the pitching (or hitting, or whatever their strong point is > at the time)."" It's that inevitability that the Cubs WILL eventually > win the WS again. When? Only God knows. Since it's been so long, it > could come at any time, or it could be another 85 years. But until they > do finally win, and start winning consistently, The Cubs will remain > America's Lovable Underdogs. The Cubs are...AMERICA'S TEAM. > Orin. > Bradley U> The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes out of nowhere to contend. The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples, not the Cubs. I root for the Cubs, because I feel sorry for them, but basically they are dogs. The Pirates today are a great example of an underdog. If the Rockies and Marlins compete, they will be underdogs. The North Stars trip to the Stanley Cup finals was a good example of an underdog's journey. The Cubs have a good team this year, and play in a weak division, they are much less than America's Team. > >-- >I'm really a jester in disguise! -- Chintan Amin mail: llama@uiuc.edu ******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981***************************** *""Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice* *And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand""* ",9 "Re: QuickDraw GX (was Re: When are the rest of the Inside Mac's due?) In article <1993Apr13.090025.20758@msc.cornell.edu> maynard@leah.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley) writes: > >Does GX take the place of 32 bit QD or add to it? Right now 32 bit is >kinda aesthetically a pain in a few places because of hacks upon hacks >to maintain compatibility with original QD---I think of things like >where you have to cast CGrafPorts to GrafPorts and such. It would be a >lot cleaner to ditch this entire mess and start over---do we get that? > >Maynard Sorry for the delay in replying; your message only showed up today (23 Apr) on apple.com. QuickDraw GX is not a replacement for QuickDraw; the two of them live quite happily together. You may write an app that only uses GX if you want, or you may write a hybrid app that uses both. Suptayoo. Dave ",4 "Re: A KIND and LOVING God!! In article <1993Apr21.141714.5576@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes: [Jesus' comments about how Christians have to follow the OT deleted...] >I will clarify my earlier quote. God's laws were originally written for >the Israelites. Jesus changed that fact by now making the Law applicable to >all people, not just the Jews. Gentiles could be part of the kingdom of >Heaven through the saving grace of God. I never said that the Law was made >obsolete by Jesus. Exodus 31:12-17. How many people have you put to death for working on the Sabbath? >If anything, He clarified the Law such as in that quote you made. In the >following verses, Jesus takes several portions of the Law and expounds upon >the Law giving clearer meaning to what God intended. If you'll notice, He >also reams into the Pharisees for mucking up the Law with their own contrived >interpretations. They knew every letter of the Law and followed it with their >heads but not their hearts. That is why He points out that our righteousness >must surpass that of the Pharisees in order to be accepted into the kingdom >of Heaven. People such as the Pharisees are those who really go out of their >way to debate about the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. >They had become legalistic, rule-makers - religious lawyers who practiced the >letter of the Law but never really believed in it. Leviticus 17:10. How as that medium-rare steak last night? >I think you will agree with me that there are in today's world, a lot of >modern-day Pharisees who know the bible from end to end but do not believe >in it. What good is head knowledge if there is nothing in the heart? Leviticus 19:19. What did you wear to work friday? >Christianity is not just a set of rules; it's a lifestyle that changes one's >perspectives and personal conduct. And it demands obedience to God's will. Deutromony 18:1. I can you can now justify discrimination. >Some people can live by it, but many others cannot or will not. That is their >choice and I have to respect it because God respects it too. Right. >God be with you, She is. -- =kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC= =My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???= = ""Because I'm the Daddy. That's why."" = ",19 "Re: Hi Volt from battery In article martyj@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (martin johnson) writes: >I need a small battery powered hi voltage capacitive discharge supply to >deliver ~6 joules at 250 volts... the ubiquitous >camera flash circuit is what I want, but I cant get mine apart without >breaking it... Charlie Brett's suggestion -- buy one of the disposable flash cameras, use the film, then take the thing apart -- is a good one. Note, though, that you won't get a particularly precise voltage out of such a thing, and it may be a single-point design that won't adapt well to off-nominal operation. The things are easy to dismantle. The key piece of information is that when you advance the film on one of them, you are winding it *into* the film cassette -- it is unwound from the cassette in the factory, when the camera is made. So no darkroom is needed for dismantling. It's standard film, so just take the cassette in for processing. All the camera-store people do when you bring in one of the disposables is rip it apart, toss the film cassette into the to-be-processed bin, and throw the battery in one trashcan and the rest of the camera in another. If you take it apart yourself, you get an AA alkaline battery (still with a fair bit of life in it) and all kinds of little bits and pieces from the camera. I expect you could even re-load and re-use the camera if you were really determined. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",12 "Re: viewing postscript files under X windows In <604@ftms.UUCP> brown@ftms.UUCP (Vidiot) writes: >OW 3.0 is the same. But, the definition of broken is relative. Pageview >requires DSC compliant PostScript files, in order to stop at page breaks. >I don't consider that broken. I say that any program that puts out a >PostScript file that isn't DSC compliant is broken. Well that may be true. However, the man page for pageview for OW 2.0 does not mention about DSC compliance. In any event, the point here is that if you try to display some PS files using pageview you will find out that it's not a practical tool. -- ...v....1....v....2....v....3....v....4....v....5....v....6....v....7.. Gordon T. Sasamori HC05 CSIC MCU Design (email: gordons@ai.sps.mot.com, Nippon Motorola Ltd. voice: 81(3)3280-8339, FAX: 81(3)3440-0033) ",5 "Re: The arrogance of Christians > Why do we follow God so blindly? Have you ever asked a >physically blind person why he or she follows a seeing eye dog? >The answer is quite simple--the dog can see, and the blind person >cannot. ... > Of course, you may ask, if I cannot trust my own senses, >how do I know whether what I see and hear about God is truth or >a lie. That is why we need faith to be saved. We must force >ourselves to believe that God knows the truth, and loves us >enough to share it with us, even when it defies what we think >we know. Why would He have created us if He did not love us >enough to help us through this world? Seems to me if you learned to differentiate between illusion and reality on your own you wouldn't need to rely on doctrines that need to be updated. My experience of Christianity (25+ years) is that most Christians seek answers from clergymen who have little or no direct experience of spiritual matters, and that most of these questions can be answered by simple introspection. Most people suspect that they cannot trust their senses, but few take the next step to figure out that they can trust themselves. Not to get too esoteric, but it seems that most religions, Christianity included, are founded by particularly intuitive people who understand this. (stuff deleted) > As for you, no one can ""convert"" you. You must >choose to follow God of your own will, if you are ever to >follow Him. All we as Christians wish to do is share with >you the love we have received from God. If you reject that, >we have to accept your decision, although we always keep >the offer open to you. If you really want to find out >why we believe what we believe, I can only suggest you try >praying for faith, reading the Bible, and asking Christians >about their experiences personally.... And what if the original poster, Pixie, is never ""converted?"" Does it make sense that she (or I, or the majority of humanity for that matter) would go to hell for eternity, as many Christians believe? It makes more sense to me that rather than be converted to a centuries-old doctrine that holds no life for her, that she simply continue to decide for herself what is best. -------------------------------------------- [You may be right about Christians relying on clergy, but I have some reason to hope you're not. Protestants emphasize conversion, experience of the Holy Spirit, and use of the Bible. This is intended to make sure that Christians have religious experience of their own, and that they have some basis on which to judge claims of clergy and other Christians. I can't speak for Catholics and Orthodox, but I believe they also attempt to avoid having members who simply repeat what they are told. I admit that this isn't always successful -- we certainly see young people join our church because at that age parents expect it. But most of our members do seem quite able and willing to make judgements for themselves, and have a commitment that comes out of their own experience. Unfortunately, it's the nature of Usenet that doctrinal disagreements get emphasized, so it looks like we spend most of our time dealing with doctrine. That's certainly not my experience of the way Christians really live. --clh] ",15 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <1993Apr10.123858.25059@bradford.ac.uk> L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk (Leonard Newnham) writes: >Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy.bu.edu) wrote: >> Khomenei was a jerk and so were plenty of >>British ""leaders"", so what? >>THE QUR'AN is the basis of judgement. Khomenei was clearly a heretic >>by the standards of the Qur'an. End of story. >Could you be a little more specific as to exactly why Khomanei was a >heretic and a jerk as judged by the Koran. I have no liking for the >guy, but as far as I know he has done nothing contrary to the teachings >of the Koran, or at least so I'm told by several Iranian research >students that I share an office with. >It is easy and convenient for you to denounce him. But I have the >feeling that your views are not as clear cut and widely accepted as you >suggest. I have made this clear elsewhere but will do so again. Khomeini put a price on the head of someone in another country, this makes him a jerk as well as an international outlaw. Khomeini advocates the view that there was a series of twelve Islamic leaders (the Twelve Imams) who are free of error or sin. This makes him a heretic. In the Qur'an Muhammad is chastised for error directly by God; the Qur'an says that Muhammad is the greatest example of proper Islamic behavior; thus no muslim is free from error. >As usual there seems to be almost as many Islamic viewpoints as there >are Muslims. Perhaps it seems so to you, but this is hardly the case. There is widespread agreement about matters of Islam. There certainly are many viewpoints on issues which are not particularly Islamic in and of themselves, but this is so for any large group of people under the same name. >It all comes back to the Koran being so imprecise in its wording. The Qur'an is not particularly imprecise in wording, though it is true that several interpretations are possible in the interpretations of many words. However, as an entire text the Qur'an makes its meanings precise enough for intelligent people free from power lust to come to agreement about them. Gregg ",0 "Re: 80486DX-50 vs 80486DX2-50 In article <1qd5bcINNmep@golem.wcc.govt.nz> hamilton@golem.wcc.govt.nz (Michael Hamilton) writes: >I have definitly seen a >mother board with 2 local bus slots which claimed to be able to >support any CPU, including the DX2/66 and DX50. Can someone throw >some more informed light on this issue? >[...] >Michael Hamilton Some motherboards support VL bus and 50-DX CPU. There is an option (BIOS I think) where additional wait(s) can be added with regard to CPU/VL bus transactions. This slows the CPU down to a rate that gives the VL bus device(s) time to 'do their thing'. These particular wait(s) are applied when the CPU transacts with VL bus device(s). You want to enable these wait(s) only if you are using a 50-DX with VL bus devices. This is from reading my motherboard manual, and these are my interpre- tations. Your mileage may vary. Strictly speaking, VL and 50mhz are not compatable. And, there is at least one 'fudge' mechanism to physically allow it to work. -- Gary Korenek (korenek@ferranti.com) Network Management Technology Incorporated (formerly Ferranti International Controls Corp.) Sugar Land, Texas (713)274-5357 ",3 "Re: What's a shit shoveler to do? (was Re: Amusing atheists and) In article <1qvn1pINNj90@shelley.u.washington.edu> jimh@carson.u.washington.edu (James Hogan) writes: > >When the various Bill Conners and Bobbys post here, I felt that >their passive-aggressive ""knock that chip off my shoulder"" >type of approach meant that attempts at reasoned argument >would be wasted. I still think that. However, while more >primitive responses (teasing, bronx cheers, sarcasm) are somewhat >satisfying ( :-) apologies to anyone who still thinks Bobby is >a performance artist! ), some of them feed in to a pointless, >circular round of ad hominem name-calling. Witness: > Precisely my position. As a newbie, I tried the point-by-point approach to debate with these types. It wasted both my time and my lifespan. Ignoring them is not an option, since they don't go away, and doing so would leave one with large stretches of complete anonymity in this group. What's left? Healthy flaming. I'm sure on occassion I've appeared to be little more than a caustic boob to some of the Bobby types. But why waste breath arguing with someone whose most rational though process involves his excretory system? And I stand by my record of recognizing these people long before most of the rest of the group. So let's see what this Timmons character has in store for us... /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away, and sank Manhattan out at sea. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ",0 "Re: An Anecdote about Islam In article <115687@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: (deletion) >Sure. Yes, I did. You see I don't think that rape and murder should >be dealt with lightly. You, being so interested in leniency for >leniency's sake, apparently think that people should simply be >told the ""did a _bad_ thing."" > Straw man. And you brought up leniency. >>And what about the simple chance of misjudgements? > >Misjudgments should be avoided as much as possible. >I suspect that it's pretty unlikely that, given my requirement >of repeated offenses, that misjudgments are very likely. > Assuming that misjudgements are not correlated. (Deletion) >>I just love to compare such lines to the common plea of your fellow believers >>not to call each others names. In this case, to substantiate it: The Quran >>allows that one beATs one's wife into submission. > > >Really? Care to give chapter and verse? We could discuss it. > Has been discussed here. Chapter and verse were cited, I assume that you weren't looking then. Let's be more exact, do you think it is not in the Quran?. And what would your consequences be when it it was shown to be in it? >>Primitive Machism refers to >>that. (I have misspelt that before, my fault). > >Again, not all of the Orient follows the Qur'an. So you'll have to do >better than that. > I have not claimed that. It is sufficient for the argument when there are a lot of male dominated societies that qualify as Machistic. Are you going to say that the situation of women is better in sufficeint areas of the Orient? (Deletion) >This is an argument for why _you_ don't like religions that suppress >sex. A such it's an irrelevant argument. > >If you'd like to generalize it to an objective statement then >fine. My response is then: you have given no reason for your statement >that sex is not the business of religion (one of your ""arguments""). > >The urge for sex in adolescents is not so strong that any overly strong >measures are required to suppress it. If the urge to have sex is so >strong in an adult then that adult can make a commensurate effort to >find a marriage partner. > You apparently have trouble reading things you don't like. The point was having sex the way one wishes being a strong desire. Marriage is a red herring. Tell me about homosexuals, for one. You simply ignore everything that doesn't fit into the world as you would like to have it. And as for the situation of adolescents, one has probably keep your combination of leniency and maiming in mind, whe you say that it does not take *overly* strong measures to suppress the urge for sex in adolescents. Benedikt ",0 "Re: Single chip receiver for FSK? In article jra@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (John Ackermann x 2966) writes: >My goal is to come up with an inexpensive design for a receiver ""back >end"" with IF input on one end and an FSK demondulator on the other. I'm >particularly interested in ways to use a higher IF than 10.7 -- do any >current chips work up to, say 150MHz with internal downconversion so a >normal IF filter can be used? > GEC/Plessey specify a series of FM demodulators (SL1454 etc) for use in satellite TV receivers : 150 or 600MHz in, 10MHz of baseband video out. I think there's also a related data slicer / clock recovery circuit intended for use in DMAC decoders, though that isn't used in the most common implementation - it may not be in volume production. The most easily available components probably vary with local satellite standards, and I think the european systems vary rather widely from those in the US - so it may be worth investigating locally-available receiver designs to find out what's in common use. -adrian -- Adrian Godwin : agodwin@acorn.co.uk : adrian@fangorn.demon.co.uk : g7hwn@gb7khw ObDisclaimer : I believe this rubbish .. don't imagine that anyone else does. ",12 "Microsoft Printing System (or something like that) I saw an ad for this and it basically is an advanced print manager... it lets you monitor your printing more closely and comes with a bunch of True type fonts... anyone have this? Good? Bad? Worth it? ",2 "RE: 80486DX-50 vs 80586DX2-50 In article <1993Apr06.121342.25130@kub.nl>, volkert@kub.nl (Volkert) writes: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Anonymous, > > I saw a posting about the choice between 80486DX-50 and a 80486DX2-50. > I was wondering: although a DX-50 is faster because of the path to it's > external cache, shouldn't the choice be the DX2-50 as that one can be > made to work properly with a local-bus? I mean, cache speed is one thing, > but all your speed will be blocked during video I/O, so just get that > faster... > I'm willing to speculate that the DX2-50 with local-bus will be 2-4 times > as fast as the DX-50 and probably as expensive (or cheap ;-)! > Technically there is no reason why a chip set cannot support a 486DX50 and a 25MHz local bus. I'm waiting for the mezzianine (sp?) VL bus that will be decoupled from the main CPU clock and allow for many more slots due to the user of buffers. This will allow the use of ever faster CPUs with the same standard I/O cards. Until the next buss spec... > regards, JV > ///// > name: J-V Meuldijk [ o o ] > address: gildelaar 4 \_=_/ > 4847 hw teteringen _| |_ > holland e-mail: volkert@kub.nl / \_/ \ > _____________________________________________________________oOOO___OOOo__ Guy -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Dawson - Hoskyns Group Plc. guyd@hoskyns.co.uk Tel Hoskyns UK - 71 251 2128 guyd@austin.ibm.com Tel IBM Austin USA - 512 838 3377 ",3 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article <20APR199303363759@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (stephen) writes: >Several possibilities: > > (a) a few of the rogue BATF/FBI types arranged for > a mix of cs and fuel based gas for cover-up, > to be set off by previously placed timed > incendiaries. Or Janet ""Rizzo"" Reno arranged this personally. Note that the man who supposedly slipped through FBI lines to get inside emerged shortly before the fire. >Oh yeah, let me add a possiblity... > > o What better way to cover up mistakes than a fire? > (You pick which side.) Exactly. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Some news readers expect ""Disclaimer:"" here. Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. (not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice) ",18 "Looking for books Hi netters! I'm looking for books that showing how to fix your own hardware problem. Please let me know if you have any books in mind. Thanks. ",3 "Printing xbm files Hi Does anyone know of a direct way to print an image of an .xbm file. Please reply directly and I'll post a summary. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Any opinion presented here is my own, and does not reflect the policy of my employer, NASA, or the Ames Research Center. Roger Smith Sterling Software at NASA-Ames Research Center rsmith@proteus.arc.nasa.gov - If change is -- inevitable -- predictable -- beneficial -- doesn't logic demand that you be a part of it? One man cannot summon the future. But one man can change the present! -- Kirk and the Alternate Spock, ""Mirror, Mirror,"" stardate unknown + ",5 "C++ and C for OS/2 Hi folks, ] Does anybody know for a good 32-bit C++/C compiler for OS/2 that supports OS/2 API and Microsoft windows (maybe Windows NT)? thanx N. Marovac, SDSU ",5 "Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL (Euro-bashing?) In article , rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes... > > > Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick >of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the >Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like ""Bure"" ""Konstantinov"" and >""Borshevshky"". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec, >and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other >teams is getting worse as well. > > I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about ""Pavel Bure, the >Russian Rocket"" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see >the Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the plexiglassso hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way, I'm not a >Canucks fan to begin with ;-). > > Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that >I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and >some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR >NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even >better hockey players. It's all hype. This ""European mystique"" is sickening, >but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue >to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league. > > With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly >only getting worse. > > I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures >and Selannes of the world play on their own continent. > > I just don't want them on mine. > > Ah, so now we're into European player bashing? What next? No more French Canadiens? Yeah, there's an idea! Let them French- speaking Canadiens have their own hockey league! We don't want them! Are you _CRAZY_? The NHL is one of the true international leagues, and yes, there _ARE_ many Europeans who deserve to play in the NHL and are better than some North Americans, look at Teemu!!! I, for one, am glad to see Europeans in the NHL and I hope the NHL soon expands to Europe. Its nice to see all these different people come together to form the (soon to be) 26 hockey teams. > > >-- >Richard J. Rauser ""You have no idea what you're doing."" >rauser@sfu.ca ""Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional >WNI outlaws - we do this for a living."" >----------------- >""Remember, no matter where you go, there you are."" -Dr.Banzai Darryl Brooks University at Buffalo __ ______ /// | | / \ \ \ / / / _____ / / //// | | / /\ \ \ \___/ / ( \ ---/-/--- /// | | / /__\ \ \ / \ \ ---/-/--- /// | |____| | / ____ \ | | ____\ ) / / /// \______/ / / \ \ | | ______/ /////// Go Bills, Sabres, and Magic!! ",10 "Re: Israel an Apartheid State? Not Quite. In article <1se68nINNfo2@early-bird.think.com> shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes: >In article <2681@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au>, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew) writes: >> There are Arabs in cabinet but look how long it took and to what >> insignificant positions they are assigned! And this is based solely >> on race not political belief or security as Jewish members of the >> same party have always been welcome just not their fellow Arabs. >First of all, the arab standing in any party, or as any party, is solely >dependent upon the amount of political power they can wield effectively. It is not a question of an individuals standing. When a party puts up an Arab for a Cabinet post and that Arab is rejected but the position is given to a Jew from the same party we are not talking about power but racism. Would you care to deny this has happened on several occasions with Labour coalitions? >In the past, they have not been effective at garnering votes and forming >a single bloc in the knesset. On the few occasions when this was done, >some of the parties took stands that were extremist, and ineffect precluded >themselves from forming a coalition and participating in the cabinet. Not their party - them as *individuals*. Even when they belong to nice peaceful Zionist mainstream parties they are not welcome. Arabs are excluded on ficitious security grounds which are just an excuse. It sure looks like racism to me. Arabs are excluded from cabinet, even when they do the things you suggest, because they are Arabs. Unless of course you have a better reason? I am happy to listen to any good reason why a leftist Jew is less of a security risk than a leftist Arab from the same party. Look at the present cabinet. Joseph Askew -- Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud In the autumn stillness, see the Pleiades, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu Remote in thorny deserts, fell the grief. Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care North of our tents, the sky must end somwhere, Actually, I rather like Brenda Beyond the pale, the River murmurs on. ",17 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr20.054839.14002@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >What, exactly, do you think the Jewish zelots at Masada did? They >poisoned themselves and their families, when they were sure there >was on other choice but submission or death. Why are you holding >the ""Branch Davidian"" to a higher standard than the Jews? Although I can understand why you think the comparison might be valid, I would have to disagree. The Jews who found themselves alone against Rome on Masada faced a future which was infinitely bleaker than the one faced by the Branch Davidians. The latter, in reality, would likely have been charged with weapons violations and other sorts of crimes. Most of them would have likely gotten off entirely. It is highly unlikely that anyone other than Vernon Howell would have been been imprisoned for very long. But regardless, most of the people, and certainly all of the children, would have been allowed to leave, and if they so chose, join another cult. The Jews on Masada well understood their likely fate from what had already happened. Had they surrendered, the men of fighting age would probably have been put to death, perhaps crucified. The women and children would have been enslaved. None of them would have been likely to practice their religion again. I understand that Howell/Koresh and perhaps others will argue that the fate of the Branch Davidians was ""equally"" onerous and that they were fighting for religious freedom. I guest that's a judgement call... -- ________________________________________ Jack F. Love | Opinions expressed are mine alone. | (Unless you happen to agree.) ",16 "What about DELL? ARIEL DESIGN? AUSTIN? INSIGHT? ROYAL? HD COMPUTERS? Ok, so I've heard about Comtrade, Gateway, TC, and various others. What about your impressions/dealings with Dell, Ariel Design, Austin, Insight, Royal, and HD computers? Responses by E-Mail are preferred because they reduce Usenet bandwidth. I will summarize the responses with another posting in a week. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blake Buhlig Colorado State University bb760597@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu Electrical/Computer Engineering ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",3 "Re: help me, i'm not clever! (how to make power supply?) In article <94318@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt4417a@prism.gatech.EDU (SKELTON,JOEL PHILLIP) writes: >I need to make a power supply that can take input from a >cigarette lighter in a car (12v dc) and drive 7.5 volts >at up to 3.0 amps. I know enough to know that a simple >voltage divider with two resistors won't do it right. Can >such a thing be made from Radio-Shack-able parts without >too much difficulty? >jps >bf >p.s. I've looked for premade things like this at radio shack but >none of it seems to go any higher than about 800mA. >-- >Joel Skelton -- North Avenue Trade School, Dept. of Round Things >gt4417a@prism.gatech.edu (ask for Scooter Technologies, and receive) See if Radio Shack has a National Semiconductor Adjustable Voltage Regulator, (National) part number: LM350T or LM350K. These devices are rated for an input to output differential of up to 35 Volts @ 3 Amps. Digi-Key Corp. has these parts, as well as several other useful regulators. If you don't have their catalog, their phone number is: 1-800-344-4539. I can only guess that you may intend to recharge a 7.5 VDC nicad battery with this device, and if I'm right, you may want to look through some of the hobbiest books to get various ideas for battery charging circuits, first. If you get stuck, e-mail me your FAX number, if you have one, and I'll send you some suggestions or schematics. e-mail: willisw@coe-nw.clemson.edu ",12 "Re: Where to buy parts 1 or 2 at a time? The pricing of parts reminds me of something a chemist once said to me: ""A gram of this dye costs a dollar. It comes out of a liter jar which also costs a dollar. And if you want a whole barrel of it, that also costs a dollar."" I.e., they charge you almost exclusively for packaging it and delivering it to you -- the chemical itself (in that particular case) was a byproduct that cost almost nothing intrinsically. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",12 "Re: Clipper Crypto I sent a response to the White House at 0005895485@MCIMAIL.COM (White House) and received a nice, automatic reply from MICMAIL noting, in passing, that if I had included a SNail address, I would get a reply in due course. For those who care, my reply was: 1. yes, let's protect the voice network 2. privately-developed crypto has always been available and always will be -- so let's think about how to do law enforcement given that fact not about how to hope to legislate against it 3. my needs for crypto as a system designer are not met by the Clipper Chip. I want freely to export uses of algorithms (like DES & RSA) which are already freely available in the destination country -- - <> - Carl Ellison cme@sw.stratus.com - Stratus Computer Inc. M3-2-BKW TEL: (508)460-2783 - 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298 FAX: (508)624-7488 ",11 "Re: Hyslop and _The_Two_Babylons_ In article mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes: >Seeing as how _The_Two_Babylons_ has been brought up again, it is time for >me to respond , once again, and say that this book is junk. It is nothing >more that an anti-Catholic tract of the sort published ever since the there >were protestants. Its scholarship is phony and its assertions spurious. I have not seen this book, though I have had several people quote it in support of some tendentious assertions they were making, so I have become curious about it. I don't want to malign this Hislop fellow, whoever he may be, as I have only heard the arguments at second hand, but both of the arguments seemed to turn on false etymology that SEEMED to be derived from Hislop. I would be interested in knowing more about these things. The first one claimed that the word ""church"" was derived from the Greek ""cyclos"", and that it was therefore related to the worship of ""Circe"". I don't know if Hislop is the source of this assertion, but it does seem to be based on false etymology. The second claimed an etymological relationship between ""Ishtar"" and ""Easter"", which seemed to be even more fanciful and far-fetched than some of the wilder notions of the British Israelites. Regarding the latter, as far as I have been able to find out, ""Easter"" is derived from the old English name for April - ""Eosturmonath"". The Venerable Bede mentioned that this was associated with a goddess called ""Eostre"", but apart from that reference I have not been able to find out anything more about her. It also seems that the term ""Easter"" is only used by the English and those they evangelized. The Germans, for example, also use the term ""Ostern"", but Germany was evangelized by English missionaries. So I would be interested in any evidence of ""Easter"" being used for Pascha by people who do not have any kind of connection with the ancient Anglo- Saxons and their offshoots. Such evidence might support the claims of those who appear to derive the theory from Hislop. ============================================================ Steve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department Univ. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa Internet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za Fidonet: 5:7101/20 steve.hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org FAQ: Missiology is the study of Christian mission and is part of the Faculty of Theology at Unisa ",15 "VAX PRICING Hello All, Goucher College will soon be retiring a MicroVax II, world case, 2 70MB Hard Drives, 16 port I/O, 2 MB (maybe 4MB) system memory. Any idea as to how much we can expect to get for this machine on the open market?? Please reply privately to: tim.marshall%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org Thanks in advance..... *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////* * * * Tim Marshall - Associate Director, Academic Computing * * Goucher College, Baltimore, MD. All opinions are mine alone. * * Documentation - A manual which tells you how to use a program, * * system, or utility one version ago, and which is now unsupported.* * * *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////* ",6 "Re: x86 ~= 680x0 ?? (How do they compare?) In article <1993Apr18.163339.380506@bmug.org> David_A._Schnider@bmug.org writes: >The real question here in my opinion is what Motorola processors running system >7 on a MAC are comparable to what Intel processors running Windows on a PC? I >recall there being a conversation here that a 486/25 running Windows benchmarks >at about the same speed as 25Mhz 030 in system 7. I don't know if that is >true, but I would love to hear if anyone has any technical data on this. > >-David That seems about right. I have a Mac IIsi 5/130 with 64k cache card running System 7.1. My roommate has a 486sx/25 5/200+ running Windows 3.1 and from what I've seen, my IIsi is faster in some operations. In others, they are comparable...But keep in mind I'm strictly speaking of operations on the desktop level of Windows 3.1 and System 7.1, not actual computational speed in other programs... ",4 "Re: Online Help Motif Widget? d3e758@bucky.pnl.gov (JE Pelkey) writes: >I am looking for online help Motif widgets (public domain or otherwise) to >run on a Sun Sparc. >I'd be especially interested in help widgets that can integrate hypertext >help, graphics, etc. >I know that some of the GUI builders like Galaxy come with online >help widgets, but I need to check into stand-alone help widgets as >well, seeing as how we have not picked a GUI tool yet. >Anybody know of any widgets like this? X Resource, Issue 6 Thanh Ma tma@encore.com ",5 "sign of the times... Article in this morning's Houston Post....""negotiators send food to rebellious inmates as humanitarian gesture""...speaking about the Ohio prison riot where they have killed at least one of the hostage guards. I know it's not the same ""group"" but the mindset appears to be common to ""those what rule"" here lately....they won't give diddley to the BD's in Waco but they treat criminals as deserving of ""humanitarian gestures"". This is but another indicator that the criminal caste seems to enjoy more priviliges in today's society than their victims or other law abiding citizens. What is it that makes the criminal so precious to the ""leaders of the system""? Could it be that the criminal is one of the ""tools"" the ""authorities"" are using to ""excuse"" some of the rights negation they are trying to foist upon the law abiding citizen in the name of crime control....don't solve the crime problem because then the citizen couldn't be held hostage to ""our help"". If the crime problem were solved in favor of the citizen/victim at the expense of the criminal none of the crap such as RICO and gun banning could be used as excuses to work the agenda of those who would control our every move and thought. --- . OLX 2.2 . If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand. ---- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ye Olde Bailey BBS 713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis) | | Houston,Texas yob.sccsi.com Home of alt.cosuard | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",16 "Teflon (Re: Long term Human Missions hausner@qucis.queensu.ca (Alejo Hausner) writes: >rek@siss81 (Robert Kaye) writes: >> >>Just a few contributions from the space program to ""regular"" society: >> >>2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan) > >Sorry to split hairs, but I just read in ""The making of the atomic >bomb""(*) that teflon was developed during world war 2. A sealant was >needed for the tubing in which uranium hexafluoride passed as it was >gradually enriched by difussion. UF6 is very corrosive, and some very >inert yet flexible material was needed for the seals. I think you're both right. Teflon was actually discovered by accident before WWII. From what I've heard, they had some chemical (I assume it was tetrafluoroethylene) in a tank and but the valve got gummed up. Cutting it open revealed that it had polymerized. The material was useful for seals, but it had a major problem for, say the linings of vessels: it wouldn't stick to metal. What the space program did was to find a way to get it to stick. Thus we had no-stick frypans on the market in the late '60s. --- Dan Tilque -- dant@techbook.com ",14 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <11855@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes: >In article <116003@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: >>This supports nothing. I have no reason to believe that this is >>piece is anything other than another anti-Islamic slander job. >>I have no respect for titles, only for real content. I can look >>up this article if I want, true. But I can tell you BCCI was _not_ >>an Islamic bank. Seeing as I'm spending my time responding to >>propaganda (in responding to this little sub-thread) I really >>don't feel a deep need to do more than make statements to the >>effect that the propaganda is false. If someone wants to discuss >>the issue more seriously then I'd be glad to have a real discussion, >>providing references, etc. > But you must admit that this is a more thorough argument > supporting a proposition than your 'it's propganda because I say > so'. I hope you can see why we might not find this argument > compelling. If you want to refute a point, then do so, but do it > right. Well, again, I am doing as much as the poster I was replying too. I am quite busy and really don't have the time to respond in full scholarly form to every accusation that is flippantly made by someone who's being clearly antagonistic. > And have you ever considered that perhaps these people actually > believe what they say? That they are not just spreading > propaganda? I have considered it. But if someone spreads falsehoods out of ignorance then they are still spreading falsehoods. Those falsehoods generally do not come out of nowhere but are produced by people who know that what they are saying is (at _least_) not the whole truth. I still consider such spreading of falsehoods propaganda on some level. > I'm not in a position to say, since I know nothing > about the situation. That does not, in my estimation, qualify me > as having my head up my ass. Bob, I never accused you of having your head up your ass! It takes me quite some time in dealing with someone before accusing them of having their head up their ass. I was accusing the original poster (Benedikt, I believe) of being so impaired. Cheers, Gregg ",0 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article lefty@apple.com (Lefty) writes: #In article <1qtsmc$39j@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank #O'Dwyer) wrote: #> #> Well I can cut to the chase and admit that what I find least attractive #> about realtivism is that it elevates the heinous to the level of the good, #> by saying in effect ""to each his own"", or ""what's good for you, isn't good #> for me"". Thus the terrorist is elevated to the same level as the man #> of peace. # #So, then, I assume that you feel that there is an objective definition for #""terrorist""? Not necessarily, but I believe that some people really are terrorists, and some people really are people of peace. I prefer the peaceful folk to the terrorists and even though I don't claim to have lock on which is which, I have hope in our ability to tell them apart, and it would be insane not to try. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: Animation with XPutImage()? > Hi, I'm new to this group so please bear with me! > > Two years ago I wrote a Sunview application for fast animation > of raster files. With Sunview becoming rapidly obselete, I've > finally decided to rewrite everything from scratch in XView. > I put together a quick test, and I've found that XPutImage() > is considerably slower (factor of 2 on average?) than the > Sunview command pw_rop() which moves image data from memory > pixrects to a canvas. This was on a Sparc IPX. It seems that: > (1) the X protocol communication is slowing things down; or > (2) XPutImage is inefficient...or both! My question is, what > is the fastest way in X11R5 to dump 8 plane image data to > a window? Can I take advantage of the fact that the client is > running on the same machine as the server? Or am I stuck with > XPutImage() (in which case I might as well give up now...)? > > All help appreciated...thanks! > > Derek > >In article 16330@infodev.cam.ac.uk, dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Derek C. Richardson) writes: ----------------------------------------------------------- > | Derek C. Richardson | Tel: (0223) 337548 x 37501 | > | Institute of Astronomy | Fax: (0223) 337523 | > | Cambridge, U.K. | | > | CB3 0HA | E-mail: dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk | > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Animation is most frequently done by copying the the client resident XImages into server resident Pixmap(s) using XPutImage. Once this is done, the original XImages can be deleted and the animation loop can be performed using XCopyArea from the Pixmaps to the windows drawable. Hope this is helpfull. John ",5 "Re: sex education Regarding the moral question Jen (jenk@microsoft.com) asked: ""Is it okay to create a child if you aren't able to be a good parent?"", I am reminded of a ""speech"" by one of the characters (I can't remember which) in the movie ""Parenthood"". [I am WAY to liberal with my quotation marks tonight...] In this so-called (by me) speech, the character is expressing what a lousy father he had and he made an interesting point. He said something to the effect of: ""You have to have a license to drive a car. You have to have a license to own a dog. You even have to have a license to fish. But, they'll anyone have a kid."" [Keep in mind that I am, in NO way, trying to pass this off as a quote. It is probably GROSSLY distorted but I think you get the point...] -Mike Mattone ",15 "Re: Football vs. BaseBall (was Game Length ) In article <1993Apr22.185800.10395@almserv.uucp>, e3ucja@fnma.COM (Chris Allen) writes: > In article 14108@ast.saic.com, sac@asdi.saic.com (Steve A. Conroy x6172) writes: > >Major League Baseball is trying to expand its appeal to people with shorter > >attention spans (i.e. the football crowd). (-: Invariably, all the > >arguments from people who don't like to watch baseball on T.V. say the > >same thing: the games are too long and too boring. Baseball is trying > >to find a way to shorten the games for wider T.V. appeal. If you look at > >it, though, baseball games last around the same amount of time as football > >games. The difference is that there is ""more action"" in that duration in > >football games. Perhaps if there were ""more action"" in baseball games, you > >would get more of those fans to tune in. Anyway, coming up with a solution > >to make baseball more appealing to a bigger crowd is going to be difficult. > >[On soapbox] Yet another reason to get a commisioner NOW since it's obvious > >that ruling baseball by comittee works about as fast as a snail race in > >Nebraska. [Off soapbox] > > > How can you say there is more action in Football then Baseball. A Football > Game consists of approximately 120 plays and the average duration of a play > is around 8 seconds. This means that in a Game that lasts approximately 3 > hours you have about 16 minute|> s of action. In a baseball game you have > upwards of two hundred pitches. There are very few on field strategy > on field stratgy sessions (ie. huddles) and you always have a chance to win > until the last out is made. > > Ah, but the illusion in football is that there is always lots of action and a sense of urgency because of the game clock (not all the time, but it happens when there's less than 5 minutes to go quite often). This sense creates drama, even when there may not necessarily be any and that holds a viewer's attention. In baseball, only 3 players are involved in the action for about (here comes a wild guess) 70% of the time? And they're just playing a sophisticated game of catch/hold-the-ball/step-out-of-the-box/adjust-chains/ touch-self-in-interesting-locations. There's a lot of ""dead time"" with the players warming up between innings or the manager visiting the pitcher at the mound or the manager removing the pitcher and bringing in a relief pitcher who then takes (8? 10?) pitches or Helen Dell playing the organ (Dodger fans will appreciate that one). To the non baseball junkie this is boring. At any rate, I'm not putting baseball down for this - I've been an avid fan since I can remember - it's just that watching a baseball game on T.V. at home can be tedious for the non baseball junkie. That's what Major League Baseball and the networks are trying to address when they talk of shortening the game. It's because of T.V. not because ""football has more action than baseball"". ========================================================================= Steve Conroy | conroy@terminus.saic.com | ""I'm gone, man - solid gone! | Science Applications | -Baloo International Corporation | ========================================================================= ",9 "Re: Capital Gains tax increase ""loses"" money In article , eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes: > In <1993Apr15.045651.6892@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu sez: >>In article <1993Apr14.135227.8579@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes: >>> >>> No, I'm saying any long term investor (the ones likely to have large >>>capital gains) would be foolish to sell in order to avoid a tax hike that a) >>>might disappear in any given year and b) be overcome in a year or two by >>>accumlated gains. >> >>To which my response is--so what? Not all people who pay capital gains >>taxes are long term investors. More than enough of them aren't for there >>to be huge blip whenever capital gains taxes get raised. >> I never said that *everyone* would find this advantageous. I said that >>more than enough would for the result to be readily noticeable and distort >>""trends"". > > Even if Brett's eventual-return figures were correct -- and they > clearly weren't -- he'd still be wrong about the cause for the '86 > blip because he fails to consider 2 basic factors: You misunderstand. I'm not trying to prove a *cause* for anything. Merely pointing out that Ted's assertion that the ""blip"" in revenues was ""caused"" by selling to avoid the tax can't be proven. > 1) As Ted notes, not everyone is a long-term investor. One might find > oneself, as I did in late 1986, anticipating expenses in the near term > that require selling off holdings. Given the choice between waiting a > few weeks (and taking an extra tax hit) or selling in December with > preferential tax treatment, only a fool would choose the former. Not disputed. > 2) The fact that Brett can now construct _post hoc_ calculations of > what would have been more beneficial to investors is in many respects > beside the point. There was plenty of _Money_-style advice given to > unsophisticated investors in late 1986 to ""sell now and save on > taxes."" In case anyone missed it, there was no shortage of similar > advice late last year (in the NYTimes, e.g.), even though that advice > was based not on the foregone conclusion of enacted law (as in 1986), > but merely on the *assumption* that Clinton would raise tax rates > (without capping CG taxes, contrary to the current proposal). It works for any situation. If you believe the market is going up, don't sell. If believe it's not, sell. But then you'd be selling anyways, wouldn't you? So where is the evidence that a large number of people suddenly decided that the higher taxes meant they should sell before the year was out? There isn't any. Ted's saying that the increase over the previous year is ""proof"" of that proposition, but I'm saying you can't know that the trend of increasing capital gains revenues wouldn't account for a lot of that increase. 1986 was the height of the housing boom, remember. People were ""trading up"" like mad. > It's nice to think that investors always behave in their optimal > economic interest. Like assuming weightless ropes and frictionless > pulleys, though, this sort of thinking often fails to describe > accurately what happens in the real world. Indeed. Brett ________________________________________________________________________________ ""There's nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction."" Sean O'Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert. ",18 "Squaw lift tickets available for $32 each POSTING FOR A FRIEND- I do not have these tickets. Interested parties can call John at (408) 522-1904 for more information. There are three lift tickets and they are good for anytime this season at Squaw Valley ski resort. -- Doug Fierro |\ UTS System Software O __________|_\______ CASE tools development \_.______________________| * * * * * * * * */ fierro@uts.amdahl.com __\____ |=================/ (408)746-7102 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",6 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1r1118$4vs@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes: >faced by the Branch Davidians. The latter, in reality, would likely >have been charged with weapons violations and other sorts of crimes. >Most of them would have likely gotten off entirely. It is highly >unlikely that anyone other than Vernon Howell would have been been >imprisoned for very long. We will see what will happen to the ""survivors"". Don't forget however that the members of the cult are responsible for the deaths of 4 ATF agents. Do you really expect Koresh (dead or alive) to take sole responsibility for this? I can just see it now, survivior at trial ""I was just following orders"". Where have we heard that before??? -- Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left. ",16 "Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?) In article sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes: > >In article <1993Apr16.155919.28040@cs.rochester.edu>, fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes: >|> genes. This fantasy led him to sequence samples of the band and carry out >|> binding assays. The result was a well-conserved, 400 or so bp, sequence > >But why do you characterize this as a ""flight of fancy"" or a ""fantasy""? The fantasy was that he had found something of fundamental importance to one of the hot questions of the day ('77). He really had very little reason to believe it, other than raw hope. By fantasy, I certainly don't mean Velikovskian manias. >some other theory or domain). I would offer some rather well known examples >such as Toricelli's Puy de Dome experiment done for the sake of his >""sea of air"" hypothesis. I'm not familiar with the history of this experiment, although, arguably, I should be. >""surprising""? >Well, given the *prior* explanations of the phenomena involved it certainly >be counted as so. Was the theory constructed (and the experiment designed) >out of ""perfectly rational grounds""? Well, there was a pretty successful and >well know theory of fluids. The analogy to fluids by Toricelli is explicit. >The novelty was in thinking of air as a fluid (but this was *quite* a novelty >at the time). Was the theory interesting? Yes. Was it ""new""? Well, one >could argue that it was merely the extension of an existing theory to a new >domain, but I think this begs certain questions. We can debate that if you >like. I think that it is enough if his contemporaries found the result surprising. That's not what I'd quibble about. What I'd like to know are Toricelli's reasons for doing his experiment; not the post hoc _constructed_ reasons, but the thoughts in his head as he considered the problem. It may be impossible to know much about Toricelli's thoughts; that's too bad if it is so. One of Root-Bernstein's services to science is that he has gone rooting about in Pasteur's and Fleming's (and other people's) notes, and has discovered some surprising clues about their motivations. Pasteur never publicly admitted his plan to create mirror-image life, but the dreams are right there in his notebooks (finally public after many years), ready for anyone to read. And I and my friends often have the most ridiculous reasons for pursuing results; one of my best came because I was mad at a colleague for a poorly-written claim (I disproved the claim). Of course, Toricelli's case may be an example of a rarety: where the fantasy not only motivates the experiment, but turns out to be right in the end. Mark -- Mark A. Fulk University of Rochester Computer Science Department fulk@cs.rochester.edu ",13 "MG T-series FOR SALE 1954 MG-TF with frame-up restoration in early '70's - a local show winner! Driven very little and stored inside since then - mostly collected dirt & dust. Needs attention to brake cylinders (like all MG-T's) but otherwise ready to run. Chrome & paint not fancy but it is mechanically excellent. The engine, a 1250cc, was completely overhauled by a machine shop. It is priced at $12,000. 1953 MG-TD Good shape but hasn't been run since '70's. Needs engine work, but no rust and everything is with it including a top, side curtains and carpet that were new and haven't seen the outdoors since the '70's. $9,500. 1952 MG-TD Basket Case. I'd call it a parts car, but it's too good for that. Everything seems to be there except the tach. Would make a good project car or parts car if you insist. No apparent rust but the upholstery is a disaster. Stored inside since the '70's. The top was new but now soso. This one has wire wheels! Looking for $4,500. All three cars will be sold ""as they stand"" with no hassles or haggles. Time has passed by and it is time to part company. Prices are negotiable. Reply via matthews@Oswego.oswego.edu or U.S. mail to: P. O. Box 1015 315-341-3501 Oswego, NY 13126 -- Harry Matthews K2AOU WRVO/WRVN/WRVJ Internet: matthews@oswego.oswego.edu Learning Resources Satellite TV Bitnet: matthews@snyoswva S.U.N.Y. College Cable TV Voice Mail: 315-341-3501 Oswego, NY 13126 ALLOY NTNX-PC MHO's are mine, not S.U.N.Y. Oswego's. ",7 "So what is the fastest Windows video card for graphics and imaging ? We have heard many bad things about the ATI Ultra Plus card (mainly having to do with its buggy Windows drivers). I would like to replace by ATI Graphics Ultra with a true-colour accelerated card. I was about to buy the ATI Ultra Plus (EISA) but it has had so much bad press that I am reconsidering. I would like an accelerated card a card that does 24bit true colour at 800x600 at least a card that does 1024x758 at 256 colours (or more) a card that has fast polygon fills a card that has fast bit blits a card that has a robust windows driver a card that has high speed non-interlaced refresh Any suggestions? My app requires lots of 3d poly grahics and complexing true colour imaging. I would sure like a faster solution that what I have now. Thanks, Al -- Alan Walford Eos Systems Inc., Vancouver,B.C., Canada Tel: 604-734-8655 aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca OR ...uunet!wimsey.bc.ca!eosvcr!aew ",2 "Re: So far so good In article luomat@alleg.edu writes: > >This may be a really dumb one, but I'll ask it anyways: > Christians know that they can never live up to the requirements of >God, right? (I may be wrong, but that is my understanding) But they still >try to do it. Doesn't it seem like we are spending all of our lives >trying to reach a goal we can never achieve? I know that we are saved by >faith and not by works, but does that mean that once we are saved we don't >have to do anything? I think James tells us that Faith without works is >dead (paraphrase). How does this work? > So long as we think that good things are what we *have* to do rather than what we come to *want* to do, we miss the point. The more we love God; the more we come to love what and whom He loves. When I find that what I am doing is not good, it is not a sign to try even harder (Romans 7:14-8:2); it is a sign to seek God. When I am aware of Jesus' presence, I usually want what He wants. It is His strenth, His love that empowers my weakness. -- Stan Armstrong. Religious Studies Dept, Saint Mary's University, Halifax, N.S. Armstrong@husky1.stmarys.ca | att!clyde!watmath!water!dalcs!armstrng ",15 "Re: Bonilla In article <13615@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes: > In article <1993Apr19.214904.29499@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU >(Roger Lustig) writes: >>In article steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu >(Dale Stephenson) writes: >>>In <1993Apr18.204643.4404@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger >Lustig) writes: >>>If black players can't survive being mediocre or worse, how can McRae >>>and Chamberlain be explained? >>Nobody's saying it's a hard and fast rule. My point is that white >>players are *likely* to stick around longer if they're mediocre. >>I went through TB III and made a list of 10-year OF and 1B who were >>negative in both Adjusted Batting Runs and Total Player Rating. TPR >>has some problems, but it's generally not too far off for a career, >>imho. All players who played most of their career after 1960 were >>considered. >>Here are A through I (haven't done the rest yet): >>Armas, Bailor, Balboni, Bannister, Beauchamp, Beniquez, Bergman, Berry, >>Biittner, Blair, Bochte, Bonnell, Bosley, Bradford, L. Brown, Buckner, >>Cabell, C.Castillo, Cater, Cimoli, Cline, Clines, Coles, D. Collins, >>Davalillo, Dernier, Dilone, Gaston, Geiger, Geronimo, Gosger, Heep, >>Iorg. >>A few black players there; a *lot* of white and hispanic. >Hmmm...one question...How do you differentiate hispanic and black? >After all, some people fall into both categories...Rafael Ramiriez >comes to mind...and he'd fit into this grouping also. >(oops...he's not an OF/1B...although he is a light-hitting >utility player. Sorry about that. But Miguel Dilone would >qualify, if I remember correctly.) When I say ""black,"" I mean US-born black people for the purposes of this discussion. Hispanic players were in baseball before 1947, and one team in the 50's signed lots of hispanics because they went over better with the local audience than blacks did. >And why would more hispanics stick around than blacks? Don't know. But remember: this is the country that had special racial laws for one group and one group only: blacks. Our national history includes huge, long-term, global tensions regarding the black minority; the hispanic minority, while often discriminated against, has never been the object of national obsession. >It might also be worth your while to subdivide the data into careers >starting at 10-year intervals. I would think that your prediction >would be most true for careers starting in the 1960's and least true >for careers starting in the 1980's. Of course, you'd also have to >compare total ML racial percentages for the era in question. Absolutely. As I said before, I expect that this effect is disappearing. But it certainly did exist, and all out talk of TWG's and all that is not without some small reason. >I'm of the opinion that your point is less valid today than it was >25 years ago, but I would be curious to see the data. Well, there's the list. Go for it! I'll cull some more names as I go. I expect you're right, btw. Roger ",9 "FTP PC/TCP ver 2.04 FOR SALE cheap FOR SALE FTP software, Inc. PC/TCP (Networking Software for DOS) Version 2.04 (***) with LAN driver for 3c503 cards, others you can get from FTP itself, serial numbers, orignal diskettes., TCP/IP telnet/ftp/ping/lpr/finger etc.... 6 copies, cheap. $45.00 each. ",6 "Programming the Beeper! I need to be able to cause a beep, but without using any interrupt routines, as I cannot use the BIOS. I believe that the PIC might have something to do with it, but I'm having troubles deciphering the information I have on it to figure out how to program it! I'm programming all of this in Turbo C, if that makes any diference at all... Please can anyone help me??! Thanks, Nicola ",3 "Re: Ancient islamic rituals In article <1993Apr3.081052.11292@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes: >I propose >that these two trends -- greater level of general depression in society >(and other psychological problems) and greater sexual promiscuity -- are >linked, with the latter being a prime cause of the former. I cannot >provide any evidence beyond this at this stage, but the whole thesis >seems very reasonable to me and I request that people ponder upon it. > Damn right you can't provide any evidence for it. Rarely are any widespread social phenomenon reducible to such a simple premise. If they were, psychology would be a hard science with roughly the same mathematical soundness as physics. Your premise may well be right. It is much more likely, however, that it reflects your socialization and religious background, as well as your need to validate your religious beliefs. Were I to pretend to have all the answers (and I don't), I would say that the xenophobia, guilt, and intolerance brought about by adherence to fundamentalist religions play just as large a role in depressing the members of our society. Your mileage obviously varies. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away, and sank Manhattan out at sea. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ",0 "Re: Guns GONE. Good Riddance ! In article <1993Apr18.000152.2339@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes: >Of those who vote, your cause is considered an abomination. No matter >how hard you try, public opinion is set against the RKBA. Nope. Here in Northern California, a newspaper recently did a survey, asking if people favored stricter gun controls. A full 40% said no. Here, in one of the most Liberal (it wasn't always a swear word :( areas of the country, nearly half the people don't want additional controls, let alone revocation of RKBA... >This is the end. By the finish of the Clinton administration, your >RKBA will be null and void. Tough titty. Misguided dolt though he may be (though, I still maintain, less dangerous than Bush), Clinton does not publicly support revoking the second amendment. >Surrender your arms. Soon enough, officers will be around to collect >them. Resistance is useless. They will overwhelm you - one at a time. >Your neighbors will not help you. They will consider you more if an >immediate threat than the abstract 'criminal'. Well, I'll help MY neighbors... >Too fucking bad. You have gone the way of the KKK. Violent solutions >are passe'. Avoid situations which encourage criminals. Then you will >be as safe as possible. Such as it is ... Violent solutions are passe'? I take it you propose disarming the police, then? Please don't mention RKBA in the same breath as the KKK. RKBA is about being able to defend yourself and others, not about killing the innocent. Actually, your mention of the KKK is rather funny, considering that the first gun control law in the US were created specifically to disarm black people... don ",16 "Re: Stop putting down white het males. it may be a little late to reply to your tirade and also on an inaapropriate board but along with all of the so called great things the white male has done they have also contributed to society by means of mass genocide, the theft of ideas and cultures, creating and the perptration of historical lies throughouttime among many other horrible activities. but every culture has its upside and its downside. it seems to me that the white male (must be extremely ignorant to qualify for the following - if you're not disregard) and western culture are the only things that look to actively classify things as good or bad, worthy or unworthy (ya dig) it can be seen with slavery and the manipulation and destruction of the american indians civilization. nothing but selfish acts that benefit one group of people (and not even their women get or got respected or regarded as equal - ain't that some stuff) white men - not being specific - but in a lot of cases are just wack or have wack conceptions of how the world is to serve their purpose. just look at david koresh - throughout history (i may be shortsighted on this one so excuse my predjudiced ignorance) only white men associate themselves withbeing GOD. no other culture is ignorant or arrogant enough to assume such a position. and then to manipulate and mislead all those people. hmmm... i'd say look in your history books but since it seems that history has been written to glorify the exploits of white men you'd only find lies. awww that's enough already from me because this has nothing to do with sex or this board. if ya'd like to continue this discussion e-mail me and we can compare and contrast ideas i like conflict - it's educational when the communcation is good...................... my $.02 worth (i apologize to those who thought this was going to be about SEX but i was prompted by a response i found up here) dave lewis - frisky HANDS man ",18 "Re: Eco-Freaks forcing Space Mining. In article <1993Apr23.001718.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >In article <1r6b7v$ec5@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: >> Besides this was the same line of horse puckey the mining companies claimed >> when they were told to pay for restoring land after strip mining. >=== >I aint talking the large or even the ""mining companies"" I am talking the small >miners, the people who have themselves and a few employees (if at all).The >people who go out every year and set up thier sluice box, and such and do >mining the semi-old fashion way.. (okay they use modern methods toa point). Lot's of these small miners are no longer miners. THey are people living rent free on Federal land, under the claim of being a miner. The facts are many of these people do not sustaint heir income from mining, do not often even live their full time, and do fotentimes do a fair bit of environmental damage. These minign statutes were created inthe 1830's-1870's when the west was uninhabited and were designed to bring people into the frontier. Times change people change. DEAL. you don't have a constitutional right to live off the same industry forever. Anyone who claims the have a right to their job in particular, is spouting nonsense. THis has been a long term federal welfare program, that has outlived it's usefulness. pat ",14 "Re: Integra GSR (really about other cars) It's great that all these other cars can out-handle, out-corner, and out- accelerate an Integra. But, you've got to ask yourself one question: do all these other cars have a moonroof with a sliding sunshade? No wimpy pop-up sunroofs or power sliding roofs that are opaque. A moonroof that can be opened to the air, closed to let just light in, or shaded so that nothing comes in. You've just got to know what's important :^). -Doug '93 Integra GS ",7 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. In article ez019654@othello.ucdavis.edu (Victoria Milliron) writes: >From: ez019654@othello.ucdavis.edu (Victoria Milliron) >Subject: Re: How to the disks copy protected. >Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1993 22:16:29 GMT >Hmmm... >What is the problem with parallel port security keys? I haven't used anything >that had hardware key copy protection schemes, so I don't know what the >drawbacks are. I know the companies that make them claim they're uncrackable, >but I've seen cracks of AutoDesk 3d-studio floating around (I don't have one >so don't ask) and I had heard that it had parralel port keys. If you put another computer on the port instead of the key, you can hack them by reading what happens. So I've been told, I've never seen this done but I think it's possible. You'd need some hardware knowledge and some software to read the port! > >vamilliron@othello.ucd.edu >-my apologies if I rambled, but vi inhibits my communication skills greatly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guido Klemans Internet: rcstage1@urc.tue.nl valid until 16 may 1993 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Listen very carefully, I will say this only once.' Michelle of the resitance ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",12 "Re: Dreams and out of body incidents In article dt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin) writes: >I'd like to get your comments on a question that has been on my mind a >lot: What morals/ethics apply to dreams and out-of-body incidents? >In normal dreams, you can't control anything, so obviously >you aren't morally responsible for your actions. But if you can contrive >to control the action in dreams or do an OOBE, it seems like a morality applies. > Well I am one of those (apparently) odd people who can sometimes control their dreams. For example, I might decide before going to sleep that I want to repeat a favourite dream, or dream about a specific place. Or if I am having an unpleasant dream, I can often (not always) redirect events to something more pleasant. I guess I think that the same standards apply in these ""directed"" dreams as apply in waking fantasies or real life (ref Jesus teaching about looking at a woman lustfully being the same a committing adultary). When my normal dreams display themes that I would not conciously chose to dream about, I take that as a sign that all is not well with my ""inner life"" - maybe I have underlying tenstions/fears that need to be resolved, or maybe its straightforward sin. In either case, the cause needs to be resolved. In fact, either case is pretty rare. I don't often remember dreams that I don't chose to have. When I do, they almost always tell me something important. I also almost never dream in pictures, and especially not in colour (in fact I've had precisely one full colour picture dream that I can remember, and it was definately spiritually important) I tend to dream in sound, with the odd blurred image, in black and white. Interesting topic - I'll be fascinated to read other responses. Alison PS. Just to make it clear, I don't do ( and have never tried ) OOBEs. I tend to think they are off limits for Christians. ",15 "FORSALE - David Bowie's Mac Datadesk 101 keyboard! Need an extended keyboard? Don't like how much space an official Apple Extended Barge takes up? BUY MY DATADESK MAC-101E!!!!!! I've gotten some Repetitive Syndrome Injury, and thus I bought an Apple Split keyboard. I don't need two keyboards, so I'm selling it....(the datadesk that is) $85 or best offer - includes ground shipping... may or may not include the ADB cable. Probably will. dan keldsen - djk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dan Keldsen | Are you now, or have you ever been: djk@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | a. A Berklee College student? Univ. of Texas, Austin | b. A member/fan of Billy Death? Music Composition, MM | c. a MAX programmer? M & M Consultant (ask) | d. a Think-C & MIDI programmer? ",6 "Re: Incarnation...Two minds of Christ.. Nabil wrote: >5. Both families agree that He who wills and acts is always the one Hypostasis >of the Logos Incarnate. Marhaba Nabil, If we posit two minds in Christ, the mind of the logos and the mind of the human Jesus, then we must admit two wills. A mind is not a mind without a will. I know this has been dealt with in past Church prnouncements, but there is a philosophical problem here that should examined. T. V. Morris argued that the Incarnation can be seen like this: _____________ (Mind of Logos) ( _______ ) ( ( ) ) Here, the mind of Jesus is circumsribed by God the ( ( Human ) ) Son. God the Son has complete access to the human ( ( Mind ) ) mind but the human mind only has access to the mind ( ( ) ) of God the Son when the Son allows access. This ( (_______) ) explains why Jesus said even he did not know the (_____________) time of the kingdom. The human will acted in accordance with the divine will according to free human decision. But if the human will would have decided differently than what was intended the divine will would have interceded, but this was never the case. He employs some very interesting analogies to support the one person/two mind theory. The ideas of a completely healthy version of split personality from the field of psychology, and the intriguing ideas of being in a dream, seeing yourself acting, knowing that is you, but also being omniscient. The one hypostasis would be the unity of the two minds. Agreed. But I am still waiting for Morris and others to respond to the lingering problem of two minds making two persons. Christian analytic philosophers are breaking new ground in explicating the rationality of Theism and the Incarnation. ==================================== Ted Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu) University of Georgia, Athens Institute of Higher Ed. [Note that ""person"" is being used in a more abstact sense here than the English. We connect person with personality and other things that are human attributes. I'm not entirely sure whether I'd want to apply personality to God, but if it is appropriate, then I think we'd have to say that Christ had two personalities. --clh] ",15 "Re: Eugenics In article <19617@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes: >we do this? Should we make a race of disease-free, long-lived, >Arnold Schwartzenegger-muscled, supermen? Even if we can. > Sure, as long as they'll make one for me. ",13 "Re: Gospel Dating Keith M. Ryan (kmr4@po.CWRU.edu) wrote: : : Wild and fanciful claims require greater evidence. If you state that : one of the books in your room is blue, I certainly do not need as much : evidence to believe than if you were to claim that there is a two headed : leapard in your bed. [ and I don't mean a male lover in a leotard! ] Keith, If the issue is, ""What is Truth"" then the consequences of whatever proposition argued is irrelevent. If the issue is, ""What are the consequences if such and such -is- True"", then Truth is irrelevent. Which is it to be? Bill ",0 "Re: How do I find my AppContext? On 19 Apr 1993 23:00:15 GMT, masc0442@ucsnews.sdsu.edu (Todd Greene) said: > Is there an Xt call to give me my application context? > I am fixing up an X/Motif program, and am trying to use XtAppAddTimeOut, > whose first argument is the app_context. What call can I use > to give me this value? I believe it's XtVaAppInitialize or something like that. -- Robert L. McMillin | Surf City Software | rlm@helen.surfcty.com | Dude! #include ",5 "Re: When are two people married in God's eyes? To recapitulate a bit: - The essence of marriage is two people's commitment to each other. - If two people claim to be married ""in their hearts"" but are not willing to have the marriage recognized by church and state, that's prima facie evidence that the commitment isn't really there. - There are obvious situations in which Christian marriage is possible without a civil or church wedding: if you're stranded on a desert island, or if your state forbids the marriage for an unjust reason (e.g., laws against interracial marriage). - The legal concept of ""common-law marriage"" is meant to ensure that the state will recognize marriages that did not start out with the usual ceremony and record-keeping. - Pastorally, I'm concerned that people should not use ""being married in God's eyes"" as an excuse for living together without a formal wedding. One has a duty to have one's marriage properly recorded and witnessed. - But there are also people who have been through a wedding ceremony without making a genuine commitment, and therefore are not married in God's eyes. Right? -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< [I think the last statement is dangerous. I believe as long as someone has formally undertaken the responsibility of marriage, they have a moral obligation, even if their intention was not right. Other people are involved in the marriage covenant. If they believed in good faith that a marriage occurred, then I think there are obligations created to them. Of course there are situations where intent can cause a marriage not to exist. The classic example is when it's done as part of a play. But these are exceptions, and should be clear to all parties. --clh] ",15 "Re: Quicken 6 vs. Tobias' Managing Your Money In article <1993Apr20.040449.19649@twg.com>, q@twg.com (Michael Wiesenberg) wrote: > > I just got a copy of Tobias' Managing Your Money v9.0. I have Quicken 6, > and it's wonderful for some things, but MYM seems to have some features > that Q6 doesn't. For example, Q6 doesn't seem to be able to handle > monthly automatic deductions from a checking account (you know, a > monthly payment that gets electronically deducted every month from > my checking account). Or is there something that I'm not doing right, > and Q6 can actually do that? Hi I have never used MYM so I can not help you with the comparison of the two products. I am, however, a devoted Quicken user, and I can tell you how to set up the weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly transactions. First use the Memorize feature (CTRL-M) to record the recurring transactions. Next, define a transaction group which uses these memorized transactions and specify the frequency that it should be used (i.e. monthly). Quicken will/can not automatically make the transactions for you, but now all you do is recall the group and all of the individual transactions will be entered at once. Additionally if you are using the Bill Minder, it will remind you when each transaction group is due. For example, you could have three transaction groups. One for payments at the beginning of the month, middle of the month, and one for quarterly payments. I hope this helps. Mike ",2 "Re: EIGHT MYTHS about National Health Insurance (Pt II) harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes: >FCUS/HEALTH: EIGHT MYTHS about National Health Insurance (Pt II) > > An office visit that's $52 in Seattle is $18 in Vancouver > (Canada). That's because, among other things, they've given their > government power to bargain with doctors and hospitals over fees. The difference in the litigation environment is reflected in the fees. Lack of defensive medicine and near-absence of malpractice is really why we spend less using the most expensive approach of pure insurance in Canada (along with France and Germany) without HMO's --- the NYT has admitted that malpractice insurance fees are an order of magnitude lower in Canada but doctors take-home pay is almost equal to American doctors; also, minimal bureaucracy 'cos the system is so-o-o simple (early March). Part of the deal for using the all-insurance approach like the French and Germans do (hey, why don't they criticize France and Germany? Is it because too many people take French and German in college to make the accusations stick? (-;) was to preserve the doctors independance. Since the provincial wings of the CMA are the ones that go to bat when the fee schedule hikes are presented, the politically-bent doctors were just cackling when they realized the CMA would grow in strength rather than diminish, especially when unopposed unlike in socialized medicine approaches like Britain's National Health Service. >""`You've got to remember, you've got a waiting list as well, but it's >not as obvious. If you're poor and you don't have insurance, you don't > go to a surgeon. In the States you ration by ability to pay.'"" For non-life threatening things, market arguments adequately cover why certain procedures are in scarcer demand. I have MD friends who can't make a living as specialists back in Manitoba not due to the insurance rates but because they won't get enough customers -- the CMA medical monopoly's grip on doctors licencing (as in the US) aside -- so they must move to larger places. However, this does not refute debunking of waiting lines for urgent AND routine care, as has been done in the U.S. by Consumers Reports, health policy studies cited by Prof. Dennis E. Shea on USENET, CNN, NYT, etc. Doug Fierro has posted a NYT article from 3 weeks ago about Canada's health insurance approach, on Talk.politics.medicine. There is one small error in the article: not all of our hospitals are private. >WOULDN'T NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE MEAN THAT AMERICANS WHO ARE NOW >FULLY INSURED MIGHT HAVE TO SETTLE FOR LESS? > >In Canada, provincial insurance covers all health costs except dental >care, eyeglasses, prescription drugs, ambulance service, and private >hospital rooms, -- so many Canadians do end up buying some private >insurance. A policy to cover all of these things runs about #40 to $40 >a month. Of course, the one thing to note is that in the Canada/France/Germany case, private insurance *offloaded* the basic coverage to the public sector. They realized they were keeping low-risk/high-profit extra insurance for things like private/semi-private rooms (vs. ward accomodation), dental, glasses, etc. for corporate or personal benefits, they'll have nothing to do with you if you want to be covered for basic care. At that point, they wouldn't even consider a ""voucher"" approach to broker the universal coverage and sell policies to make up the difference in the federal guidelines and market stuff. >****************************************************************** > >WOULDN'T FREE CARE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO RUN TO THE DOCTOR FOR EVERY >ACHE AND PAIN? > >People who get free treatment *do* go to the doctor and hospital about >a third more often than those who have to pay a share of their medical >bills. > >Still, Canadians -- who pay nothing at the doctor's -- have a lower >per-person health bill than we do. It is ""free"" in that there are no deductibles nor copayments (two things which I advocate to make the Canadian insurance look more like real health insurance -- which actually it is). I know that when working in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec, I was aware that I was paying for health insurance - e.g., in Toronto, OHIP fees were listed on my pay stub; Manitoba did not collect at paycheque time, but only annually at income tax time (built into the tax rate). Only fiscal naifs will proclaim that it's free, along with the Canadian Left for that is part of their brainwashing agenda. The French do have copayments, though. France Magazine's Summer 1992 edition has a fantastic presentation of their basic insurance coverage, including a sample chart of copayment percentages. For 1-30 days, you're covered for 80% of the public hospital rate, 100% afterward. With extra private insurance, you can get into a private hospital and be covered for any differences beyond the public hospital rate. The public insurance covers 100% beyond 30 days, or the same cash amount for a private hospital and the difference is paid out-of-pocket or according to your supplementary private insurance. Over 2/3rds of French have some form of extra private insurance. So, the other 30% of health costs in Europe are out of private funds, not gleaned from other taxes. The GDP figures are combined public and private expenditures for total outlay using the same methods that yield the 13-14% figure for the U.S. >ISN'T THE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY JUST TOO BIG >AND POWERFUL TO KILL? > >Dismantling the health segment of our insurance industry would be >""politically thorny,"" in the quiet words of one advocate for a >national plan. Some 1,200 firms now sell more than $192 billion in >health insurance. They'd put up a hard fight. Not only has the industry >grown eightfold since Canada shut down its own health insurers, but >our government leaves politicians more open to lobbyists than does >Canada's parliamentary system. Health insurance does exist in Canada and in Western Europe, its just that it doesn't cover basic care. You can opt out in Canada and Germany, but you'll have to go uninsured as a result because there are too few other people that do so --- i.e., no market. When private insurance realized how much money they'd make without the risks involved in basic insurance (e.g., neurosurgery) versus deluxe amenities (e.g., having to call Granada TV to replace a rental set on the fritz in someone's private hospital room), they started to pat themselves on the back for their social responsibility. In Quebec last spring, a consortium of private insurers publicly warned against any thoughts of privatizing routine, low cost parts of that province's public health insurance plan. gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",18 "Re: Peace Talks In article <1993May15.020244.9629@news.columbia.edu> pgf5@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Peter Garfiel Freeman) writes: >In article <2BF36F14.21492@news.service.uci.edu> tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes: >>In article <1993May13.201441.23139@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes: >>>It seems that, to keep the peace talks going, Israel has to keep >>>making goodwill gesture after goodwill gesture, while Palestinian >>>Arabs continue to go around hunting Jews. >> >>You *know* that putting something like this out on the newsgroup is *only* >>going to generate flames, not discussion. Try adding some substance to >>the issue of ""gestures"" you mentioned. >>What is it you feel that Israel *has* offered as a ""gesture""? What would >>you (*realistically*) expect to see presented by the Arabs/Palestinians >>in the way of ""gesture""? > >Timbo, Israel has not been recognized as a state by the Arabs, except for >Egypt, of course. Isn't that a gesture? What has Israel offered? >Well, it has been calling for peace talks for 45 years, asked for >economic relations, and asked for diplomatic ties. What else is there? >Would you have Israel sacrifice its security? Nay, I think not. > >Peace, >Pete > Yea, I think not also. Israel's #1 issue is ""Security"" so *any* outcomes of ""negotiation"" certainly need to address ISREAL'S perception of this issue. The problem is is defining (by ""outsiders"", by Israel, and by the Arabs themselves) what is the #1 issue to the Arab side. Is it ""Palestinian statehood"", is it that Israel as a state should not and must not be allowed to exist, is it that the existence of a self-governing non- muslim ""state"" in the ""Islamic World"" is intolerable...what? Just as the dividing line between Israel-fighting-for-security and Israel-fighting- to-expand is often hard to discern by ""outsiders"" (especially to the Arab world), so the rationale behind the Arab-struggle-to-undermine-Israel-in- any-way could either be based on visceral rejectionism or a sense of being wronged that still values peace, who knows which. Anyway, in these talks, what ""gestures"" would you think would be seen by Israel as ""substantial""? -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "Re: Syquest 150 ??? In article <93759@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt8798a@prism.gatech.EDU (Anthony S. Kim) wrote: > > I remember someone mention about a 150meg syquest. Has anyone else > heard anything about this? I'd be interested in the cost per megabyte and the > approximate cost of the drive itself and how they compare to the Bernoulli 150. >>>>Bernoulli also offer 20MB floppy drives that read 1.4MB floppies. Their 150MB Multidisk reads all formats. and writes 90MB. Bernoulli's are installed in industrial computers...much more rugged than Syquest....you get what you pay for I guess....haven't heard about 150MB Syquest??? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THANKS...... _/_/_/ truemner@mac-truemner.rd.hydro.on.ca _/ _/ _/ _/ ONTARIO HYDRO.Automated.NDT&Welding.R&D _/_/_/ _/_/_/ (416)207 6380.FAX:237 9285.Toronto.CANADA _/ _/ ",4 "Re: PLANETS STILL: IMAGES ORBIT BY ETHER TWIST In <1993Apr22.130923.115397@zeus.calpoly.edu> dmcaloon@tuba.calpoly.edu (David McAloon) writes: > ETHER IMPLODES 2 EARTH CORE, IS GRAVITY!!! If not for the lack of extraneously capitalized words, I'd swear that McElwaine had changed his name and moved to Cal Poly. I also find the choice of newsgroups 'interesting'. Perhaps someone should tell this guy that 'sci.astro' doesn't stand for 'astrology'? It's truly frightening that posts like this are originating at what are ostensibly centers of higher learning in this country. Small wonder that the rest of the world thinks we're all nuts and that we have the problems that we do. [In case you haven't gotten it yet, David, I don't think this was quite appropriate for a posting to 'sci' groups.] -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",14 "Re: A loathesome subject In article <1993Apr13.174636.15142@ads.com>, henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes: > carlos@beowulf.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Carlos Carrion) wrote: # -# Just curious (don't have to answer if you feel uncomfortable): # -# how many times have YOU had sex with boys? # # why do you care? if a total stranger asked you how often you had sex, # would you answer? # # # henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc. / arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >Armenians did not genocide Turks. See, you are a pathological liar. Source: ""Adventures in the Near East,"" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages). (Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 178 (first paragraph) ""In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the existence, although they had been unable to find them."" (to be continued...) Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",18 "Re: Automotive crash test, performance and maintenance stats? < , Tor-Olav.Berntzen@newcastle.ac.uk (Tor-Olav Berntzen) writes: >Another thing, why a SCSI interface ? [for MDs] > >By giving the 2.5""MO a floppy interface it could reduce the price of it and >make it easily installed in existing devices. This question is, to me, like asking ""Why use SCSI at all?"" - Due to the rather primitive standard DMA solution (which is used by almost all floppy interfaces) of PCs, the speed is limited to approx 500 Kbytes/s. I want a standard allowing higher performance. - With SCSI, the OS can issue a request to the disk and then go ahead with other things. Later, when the controller has performed the search and physical read, data can be transferred to main memory at ""RAM speeds"". Not very relevant with MS-DOS, but MS-DOS is not made for the future. - I've *got* a SCSI interface. I've got a 5.25"" and a 3.5"" floppy, too, and I am not going to throw them out. With SCSI I may add, for all practical purposes, an ""unlimited"" number of disk units without sacrificing any of my old disks. - For my PC, I've got a 300 Mbyte SCSI disk adopted from a SUN machine, and I can carry it over to a Mac, a Sparcstation, an Alpha machine... whatever I like to, if I decide to turn my back to the PC. (I *do* know that I cannot expect to move the data without reformatting!) There are probably numerous other reasons for SCSI as well. >After all it is a floppy replacement we are taking about. 128Mb isnt all that >much, so it isnt going to replace the need of a fast fixed disk. No, not replace, but supplement. And contrary to a floppy, a MD may be fast enough to run programs (or access data) directly off the MD. So we'll have much higher expectations/demands, which is much better supported by SCSI than the old floppy interface. And the price of SCSI controllers is not that high any more - isn't it something like a dozen large pizzas, nowadays? :-) ka. ",4 "Re: IDE vs SCSI bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes: {> {> SCSI-1 {SCSI-2 controller chip; also called SCSI-2 (8-bit)}: 4-6MB/s with {> 10MB/s burst. This is advertised as SCSI-2 in BYTE 4/93:159 FOR the {> PC and AT THESE SPEEDS.{NOT the Mac, the PC.} {> I have been following this mess for a while. excuse my need for clarification. Iam thinking seriously IDE vs. SCSI and this thread could not have come at a better time. the above quote SCSI-1 {SCSI-2 controller chip} are we talking about a SCSI-1 device (e.g. HD) on a SCSI-2 Controller or are we talking about a SCSI-1 Controller that had a chip upgrade using the same chip that is on a SCSI-2 controller board. thanks -David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= China Cat BBS c-cat!david@sed.csc.com (301)604-5976 1200-14,400 8N1 ...uunet!mimsy!anagld!c-cat!david =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",3 "DICKNOSE PROFILE szwilso@chip.ucdavis.edu () writes: >To Adam Shostack (adam@endor.uucp): > >AS> Even though the point of your article seemed to be to flame, I >AS> felt I should point out that the lions share of US foreign aid goes to >AS> Germany, where the US stationed a hundered thousand troops for 40 >AS> years, while the Germans kicked our economic collective ass. The >AS> money that goes to Israel is miniscule compared to what goes to >AS> Germany. > >WHAT AN EVASIVE COMPARISON! U.S. troops stationed in Germany or >anywhere else is the world is not ""Foreign Aid,"" numbnuts! Are you >sure you're not a closet Holocaust Revisionist, Adam??? I have a >suggestion for you: Write to your congressman or senator and ask him >or her for the official definition of ""Foreign Aid"" and just who are >the recipients of such. Israel is DEFINITELY on the top of the heap, >no matter how you try to twist the truth. Why don't you pull your head out of your ass and into reality? First off, what is the deal with your subject lines? Do you think that you are being funny? Ha ha. What a developed sense of humor you have, I'm surprised they let you out of the cage. Why don't we not talk about the ""official"" definition of foreign aid and talk about where money is really spent. More money is spent stationing troops in Germany (ie paying the troops, maintaining bases and equip, etc) than in Israel. Plus, Israel does not ask the US to send troops to fight her battles. If you look at the amount of money spent defending Korean shipping lanes, Norway, and other trouble spots in the world, you will see that aid to Israel - from a practical standpoint - is not that much. And so what - so what if Israel gets the most (assuming I buy your feeble argument)? What is your point? Do you not want to subsidize Israel? Well, you have two options 1) Start your own campaign, get elected as president, and then force congress to cut all aid to Israel or 2) get the fuck out! If you don't like how this country operates and can't change it then move to Iran or something. All my love, Ed. ",17 "Re: Jacob's Ladder g92m3062@alpha.ru.ac.za (Brad Meier) writes: > Hi, I'm looking for a circuit, that is called a ""Jacob's Ladder"". > This little box is usually seen in sci-fi movies. It consists of > two curves of wire protruding into the air, with little blue sparks > starting at their base (where the two wires are closer to each other), > moving up the wires to the top, and ending in a small crackling noise. > > Could anyone supply me with the schematic for the innards of this box? > > Thanks in advance > Mike > > (Please reply by email to g90k3853@alpha.ru.ac.za) > > -- > | / | | ~|~ /~~\ | | ~|~ /~~\ |~~\ /~~\ The KnightOrc > |/ |\ | | | __ |__| | | | |__/ | g92m3062@hippo.ru.ac.za > |\ | \| | | | | | | | | | | | ""When it's over I'll go home, > | \ | | _|_ \__/ | | | \__/ | | \__/ until then, I stay!"" - Me I'd like any accumulated information on this as well please. Thanks. _________________________________________ _____ | | | | | =========== | Baden de Bari | | o o | | | | ^ | | baden@sys6626.bison.ca | | {-} | | baden@inqmind.bison.ca | \_____/ | | ----------------------------------------- ",12 "Items for sale , less....!! ITEMS FOR SALE - PRICE LISTED OR BEST OFFER!!!!!!! KFC SVGA Monitor 1024X768 .28DP Non-interlaced 14"" Screen, still under warranty! (Brand New) $ 275.00 1200 Baud Compuadd Modem Box/docs/software $ 15.00 CGA Monitor with Cga/Parallel Card $ 30.00 SCO UNIX V3.2.2 Unlimited User OS, has the base and extended Utilities, and UUCP $ 125.00 Turbo C/Turbo C++ The complete reference book. $ 15.00 Serial I/O Card 1 serial Port $ 10.00 Joystick, three button $ 10.00 IDE Controller with 2 Serial, 1 parallel and one Game port. $ 10.00Each (210)545-4741, ask for Ralf ",6 "Re: solvent for duct-tape adhesive? In article <1993Apr26.210417.2984@socrates.umd.edu> johng@socrates.umd.edu (John Gustafson) writes: >>I know this is a long shot, but does anyone know what solvent I should >>use to clean duct-tape adhesive from carpet? > >May I tease out a sub-thread from this discussion? > >Can you all please tell me how to remove the stickers from new houses' >appliances and outdoor lampposts? Especially the lamppost, right on >the glass. Isn't there something you can rub into stuck-on labels that >will release them from their death-grip on glass or other hard surfaces? ""Petroleum naphtha,"" available at most hardware stores, will remove most adhesives. -- Frank reid@ucs.indiana.edu ",12 "Re: Can I Change ""Licensed To"" Data in Windows 3.1? Have you tried re-installing the software? Otherwise I would be dubious about simple ways to change that screen. Is it not designed to be an embarassment to would be pirates? -Charles -- Charles Emmons | charles@trintex.uucp | These opinions are Prodigy Services Co. | charles%trintex@uunet.uu.net | mine alone, unless White Plains NY 10601 | Voice 914-993-8856 | you would like to PRODIGY ID - KJRD82A | FAX 914-993-8659 | share them. ",2 "Windows BMP to Sun raster or others? Hi, Anyone has a converter from BMP to any format that xview or xv can handle? This converter must run Unix.. I looked at the FAQ and downloaded several packages but had no luck... thanks in advance. ed echen@burn.ee.washington.edu ",1 "Re: ""militia"" (incredibly long) In article <1qna9m$nq8@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: -> In article , jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John Lawrence Rutledge) writes: -> > But, do you knew how much organization is required to training a large -> > group of poeple twice a year. Just to try to get the same people -> > every year, provide a basic training to new people so they can -> > be integrated into the force, and find a suitable location, it -> > requires a continually standing committee of organizers. -> -> Again, my response is, ""so what?"" Is Mr. Rutledge arguing that since -> the local and federal governments have abandoned their charter to support -> such activity, and passed laws prohibiting private organizations from -> doing so, that they have eliminated the basis for the RKBA? On the -> contrary, to anyone who understands the game, they have strengthened it. No, I originally argued that the Second Amendment was ""a little bit and an anachronism."" These prohibiting laws are examples why the are an anachronism. After all, laws in made by representatives of the people. These representatives of the people have already decided that the Second Amendment does not apply or is too broad in some cases. Since these representatives feel an unconditional interpretation is not wanted, then it is probable that they majority of the people feel the same way. If this is so, it is an example of the people using their power of government. If this is not how the people feel, the people should stand up and state their wishes. > Mox nix, Mr. Rutledge. YOU are the only one here claiming that the -> RKBA is dependent on the existence of a top-flight, well-regulated -> militia. Why this is a false assumption has already been posted a -> number of times. No, I simple stated that the people have a right to ""join a well organized militia."" And I have also stated that a militia that meets once or twice a year is clearly ""well organized."" And this state of readiness that I have claimed the people have a ""right"" to, is the same state of readiness expected of the militia as stated by Hamilton. -- +-----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | | ""If only it were a modern document, with a | | John Lawrence Rutledge | smart index and hyper links stretching all | | Research Assistant | through the world data net. It was terribly | | | frustrating to flip back and forth between | | Interactive Media Group | the pages and crude flat illustrations that | | Computer Science Department | never even moved. Nor were there animated | | UMass - Lowell | arrows or zoom-ins. It completely lacked a | | 1 University Ave. | for sound. | | Lowell, MA 01854 | ""Most baffling of all was the problem of new | | | words... In normal text you'd only have to | | (508) 934-3568 | touch an unfamiliar word and the definition | | jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu | would pop up just below."" | | | from David Brin's ""Earth"" | +-----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",16 "4SALE, BALLY's JACK LALLANE MEMBERSHIP Two Jack LaLlane GOLD memberships are for sale by the owners. Asking for $600 for each membership. Please contact Padma & Srini at (908) 855-8865 for details. Thanks ",6 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? In article chang hsu liu, cliu@silver.ucs.indiana.edu writes: > > From: ""James P. Reynolds"" > > Organization: Lehigh University > > Subject: When you're not using it, turn it off! > > To: Multiple recipients of list C18-L > > > > Research has shown that the majority of the time that the United > > States' 30 to 35 million personal computers are on, they are not > > [More quote deleted] > > it every so often if you can. Let's get the word out to everyone. > > We need to be responsible about the way we consume. > > > > Jim Reynolds > > Susanmarie Harrington > University of Michigan Ok, I have a question... why? Why do people copy the article, and the only new thing they add to the post is there name? I'm not picking on this person, I've seen a few of these. Is it just a mistake? Am I missing something? Is it some unknown net-equette I missed somewhere? I skip over all the quoted material, since I've already read it, and look for the non-quoted material, and all I get is the name addition. Is this supposed to me ""I agree"", or ""I second this"" or what? Sorry... Just wondering if I missed something somewhere along the line... ",4 "From Israeli press. Madness. From: Center for Policy Research Subject: From Israeli press. Madness. /* Written 4:34 pm Apr 16, 1993 by cpr@igc.apc.org in igc:mideast.forum */ /* ---------- ""From Israeli press. Madness."" ---------- */ FROM THE ISRAELI PRESS. Paper: Zman Tel Aviv (Tel Aviv's time). Friday local Tel Aviv's paper, affiliated with Maariv. Date: 19 February 1993 Journalist: Guy Ehrlich Subject: Interview with soldiers who served in the Duvdevan (Cherry) units, which disguise themselves as Arabs and operate within the occupied territories. Excerpts from the article: ""A lot has been written about the units who disguise themselves as Arabs, things good and bad, some of the falsehoods. But the most important problem of those units has been hardly dealt with. It is that everyone who serves in the Cherry, after a time goes in one way or another insane"". A man who said this, who will here be called Danny (his full name is known to the editors) served in the Cherry. After his discharge from the army he works as delivery boy. His pal, who will here be called Dudu was also serving in the Cherry, and is now about to depart for a round-the-world tour. They both look no different from average Israeli youngsters freshly discharged from conscript service. But in their souls, one can notice something completely different....It was not easy for them to come out with disclosures about what happened to them. And they think that to most of their fellows from the Cherry it woundn't be easy either. Yet after they began to talk, it was nearly impossible to make them stop talking. The following article will contain all the horror stories recounted with an appalling openness. (...) A short time ago I was in command of a veteran team, in which some of the fellows applied for release from the Cherry. We called such soldiers H.I. 'Hit by the Intifada'. Under my command was a soldier who talked to himself non-stop, which is a common phenomenon in the Cherry. I sent him to a psychiatrist. But why I should talk about others when I myself feel quite insane ? On Fridays, when I come home, my parents know I cannot be talked to until I go to the beach, surf a little, calm down and return. The keys of my father's car must be ready for in advance, so that I can go there. I they dare talk to me before, or whenever I don't want them to talk to me, I just grab a chair and smash it instantly. I know it is my nerve: Smashing chairs all the time and then running away from home, to the car and to the beach. Only there I become normal.(...) (...) Another friday I was eating a lunch prepared by my mother. It was an omelette of sorts. She took the risk of sitting next to me and talking to me. I then told my mother about an event which was still fresh in my mind. I told her how I shot an Arab, and how exactly his wound looked like when I went to inspect it. She began to laugh hysterically. I wanted her to cry, and she dared laugh straight in my face instead ! So I told her how my pal had made a mincemeat of the two Arabs who were preparing the Molotov cocktails. He shot them down, hitting them beautifully, exactly as they deserved. One bullet had set a Molotov cocktail on fire, with the effect that the Arab was burning all over, just beautifully. I was delighted to see it. My pal fired three bullets, two at the Arab with the Molotov cocktail, and the third at his chum. It hit him straight in his ass. We both felt that we'd pulled off something. Next I told my mother how another pal of mine split open the guts in the belly of another Arab and how all of us ran toward that spot to take a look. I reached the spot first. And then that Arab, blood gushing forth from his body, spits at me. I yelled: 'Shut up' and he dared talk back to me in Hebrew! So I just laughed straight in his face. I am usually laughing when I stare at something convulsing right before my eyes. Then I told him: 'All right, wait a moment'. I left him in order to take a look at another wounded Arab. I asked a soldier if that Arab could be saved, if the bleeding from his artery could be stopped with the help of a stone of something else like that. I keep telling all this to my mother, with details, and she keeps laughing straight into my face. This infuriated me. I got very angry, because I felt I was becoming mad. So I stopped eating, seized the plate with he omelette and some trimmings still on, and at once threw it over her head. Only then she stopped laughing. At first she didn't know what to say. (...) But I must tell you of a still other madness which falls upon us frequently. I went with a friend to practice shooting on a field. A gull appeared right in the middle of the field. My friend shot it at once. Then we noticed four deer standing high up on the hill above us. My friend at once aimed at one of them and shot it. We enjoyed the sight of it falling down the rock. We shot down two deer more and went to take a look. When we climbed the rocks we saw a young deer, badly wounded by our bullet, but still trying to such some milk from its already dead mother. We carefully inspected two paths, covered by blood and chunks of torn flesh of the two deer we had hit. We were just delighted by that sight. We had hit'em so good ! Then we decided to kill the young deer too, so as spare it further suffering. I approached, took out my revolver and shot him in the head several times from a very short distance. When you shoot straight at the head you actually see the bullets sinking in. But my fifth bullet made its brains fall outside onto the ground, with the effect of splattering lots of blood straight on us. This made us feel cured of the spurt of our madness. Standing there soaked with blood, we felt we were like beasts of prey. We couldn't explain what had happened to us. We were almost in tears while walking down from that hill, and we felt the whole day very badly. (...) We always go back to places we carried out assignments in. This is why we can see them. When you see a guy you disabled, may be for the rest of his life, you feel you got power. You feel Godlike of sorts."" (...) Both Danny and Dudu contemplate at least at this moment studying the acting. Dudu is not willing to work in any security-linked occupation. Danny feels the exact opposite. 'Why shouldn't I take advantage of the skills I have mastered so well ? Why shouldn't I earn $3.000 for each chopped head I would deliver while being a mercenary in South Africa ? This kind of job suits me perfectly. I have no human emotions any more. If I get a reasonable salary I will have no problem to board a plane to Bosnia in order to fight there."" Transl. by Israel Shahak. ",17 "Cumulus Notebook 386SX-25 Help! Greetings... I am in desperate need of a Battery and Power Supply (Internal) for the Cumulus 386SX-25 Notebook. I do appologize for not having serial # for this system. Any Help would greatly be appreciated... Many Thanks in advance, Dave.Bona@m.cc.utah.edu -- - Not your average .sig! No, this one is very clever. - ",2 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism In article <30151@ursa.bear.com>, halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: |> In article , adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Andy Peters) writes: |> |> >Evolution, as I have said before, is theory _and_ fact. It is exactly |> >the same amount of each as the existence of atoms and the existence of |> >gravity. If you accept the existence of atoms and gravity as fact, |> >then you should also accept the existence of evolution as fact. |> > |> >-- |> >--Andy |> |> I don't accept atoms or gravity as fact either. They are extremely useful |> mathematical models to describe physical observations we can make. |> Other posters have aptly explained the atomic model. Gravity, too, is |> very much a theory; no gravity waves have even been detected, but we |> have a very useful model that describes much of the behavior on |> objects by this thing we _call_ gravity. Gravity, however, is _not_ |> a fact. It is a theoretical model used to talk about how objects |> behave in our physical environment. Newton thought gravity was a |> simple vector force; Einstein a wave. Both are very useful models that |> have no religious overtones or requirements of faith, unless of course you |> want to demand that it is a factual physical entity described exactly |> the way the theory now formulated talks about it. That takes a great |> leap of faith, which, of course, is what religion takes. Evolution |> is no different. |> |> -- |> jim halat halat@bear.com |> bear-stearns --whatever doesn't kill you will only serve to annoy you-- |> nyc i speak only for myself What do you accept as a fact -- the roundness of the earth (after all, the ancient Greeks thought it was a sphere, and then Newton said it was a spheroid, and now people say it's a geoid [?])? yourself (isn't your personal identity just a theoretical construct to make sense of memories, feelings, perceptions)? I'm trying to think of anything that would be a fact for you. Give some examples, and let's see how factual they are by your criteria (BTW, what are your criteria?). ""Gravity is _not_ a fact"": is that a fact? How about Newton's and Einstein's thoughts about gravity -- is it a fact that they had those thoughts? I don't see how any of the things that you are asserting are any more factual than things like gravity, atoms or evolution. In short, before I am willing to consider your concept of what a fact is, I'm going to have to have, as a minimum, some examples of what you think are facts. -- Tom Scharle |scharle@irishmvs Room G003 Computing Center |scharle@lukasiewicz.cc.nd.edu University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 46556-0539 USA ",0 "Re: Rodney King Trial, Civil Rights Violations, Double Jeopardy In article mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes: >In <1993Apr2.182942.22445@husc3.harvard.edu> spanagel@husc11.harvard.edu (David Spanagel) writes: > >|Furthermore, what are the specific charges against the four LAPD officers? >|Which civil rights or laws are they accused of violating? > >I believe it is a general charge, that is no specific right is mentioned. I don't think that this is accurate. I believe, and could be wrong, that there IS a specific right allegedly to have been violated, like the 14th or due process or whatever. >|What about double jeopardy? Has there been any concern that a verdict >|against Koon, et al. might be overturned upon appeal because they're being tried >|again for the same actions? (I thought I heard something on the news about >|this.) > >The SS has previously ruled that since the seperate governments were in >essence seperate sovereigns, then double jeopardy does not apply. > >(If this is true, then could defendents also be tried under city and >county governments?) > >This mornings paper said that the ACLU has decided to reinstate its >opposition to this kind of thing. They had earlier suspended their >opposition while they examined the King case. There might be hope >for the ACLU after all. >-- Double jeopardy does not apply, but not for the reasons you quote. Double jeopardy states that a person may not be tried twice on the same charge. However, the police are not on trial for the crime of excessive force or assault. They are NOW on trial for the DIFFERENT crime of violating Mr. King's civil rights. AS for the city and county or state trying you more than once, it most likely will not happen. This is because cities and states have separate laws governing behaviour. For example, in some states, it is an offence to carry marijuana, but not a city offence. Also, I think murder is against federal, but not some state laws. =============================================================================== ! \ ! 1-------1 ! \ 1_______1 __1__ ""And my mind was filled with wonder, ! \ 1_______1 / ____1____ when the evening headlines read: ! ! \ / / 1__|_|__1 'Richard Cory went home last night, ! ! \/ / --------- and put a bullet through his head.'"" ! / \/ | | \ \ | / \____/| ",18 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) Let's assume, for the moment, that the system really is secure unless you get both halves of the encryption key from the two independent escrow houses. Let's say you even trust the escrow houses -- one is the ACLU and the other is the EFF. (And I'm not entirely joking about those two names) I'm really not entirely sure I trust EFF any more to be honest. Anyway, any organisation can be deeply infiltrated. Look at CND in Britain a dozen years ago - one of their top members was an SIS spy who stole their complete address list. How hard would it be to get one person to sneak in and copy the escrow data to disk? G ",11 "Re: BMW MOA members read this! Sender: Reply-To: harmons@gyro.WV.TEK.COM (Harmon Sommer) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: /usr/ens/etc/organization Keywords: >>: As a new BMW owner I was thinking about signing up for the MOA, but >>: right now it is beginning to look suspiciously like throwing money >>: down a rathole. >>let my current membership lapse when it's >>up for renewal. >In my case that's not for another 3+ years, so I'd appreciate any >hints on what will keep the organization in business that long. (And >preferably longer, of course, and worth being part of.) Become an activist: campaign for an MC insurance program; for universal driver/rider training before licensing. Pick a topic dear to your heart and get the organization to act on it. Barnacles don't move ships. ",8 "Re: How can I use the mouse in NON-Windows applications under MS-WINDOWS ? In article <1993Apr22.153959.12328@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> gonzaled@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LGV/MC) writes: > >One addition to this... I don't know if it applies to everybody. For my >(Microsoft 400dpi) mouse to work with windowed DOS apps, I had to use the >driver that came with Windows (Version 8.20). 8.1 didn't allow me to do >it for some reason. > For Logitech rodents use the lmouse driver that comes with windows.... also you need to be using a video driver that supports use of the mouse, both the VGA and SUPERVGA that come with Windows 3.1 will support it. both of these are 16 color drivers, if you're lucky the manufacturer of your video card might have a driver that is compatable and will support a mouse. Steve -- Stephen Guerke, Coord. Computer Resources sguerke@brahms.udel.edu University of Delaware Parallel Program stephen.guerke@mvs.udel.edu Georgetown, DE 19947 ILV20078@UDELVM.UDEL.EDU ",2 "Re: Gun Control: proud to be a Canuck Does anyone really believe the Swiss have had no war within their borders because every adult male owns a rifle? I'm a great admirer of the Swiss, but 500 years of peace on their turf has zilch to do with gun ownership. Can you picture Hitler, with Panzers and Focke-Wulfs poised on the border, losing sleep over a few thousand expert rifleman? Sure. Hitler stayed out of Switzerland because the Swiss run the money in this world. We'd do well to emulate them on that and forget about getting more rifles on the street. Let's disband the NRA and start a National Investment Banking Association, replete with red and black sticker for the back window of Bubba's Mercedes 600! We could fire Charlton Heston and get Paul Volcker for a spokesman. ",16 ".SCI files and .SCO files Hello there! A week ago a guy asked what a .SCO file was - well I researched a bit and foundout that it is just another RIX file. .SCI files are 320x200 files and .SCO files are 1024x768 files! alle the other formats (800x600, 640x480...) are also called something like .SC(character). regards rued ",1 "Re: Truly a sad day for hockey Farewell, Minnesota fans. Get stuffed, Dallas Stars. As the North Stars fade to black, I hope that Minneapolis/St. Paul are not long without an NHL team. It just seems ""right"" that the hotbed of amateur hockey in the USA should have an NHL team as well. The loss of the team is certainly not the fault of the fans (though the start of the 1989-90 season made it look real bad for a while). I wish now that I kept the North Stars cap I bought at Maple Leaf Gardens the morning after they eliminated Montreal in 1980. (I got it to spite the Montreal fans in the small town where I grew up.) What a glorious season that was for the North Stars! dwarf -- W. Jim Jordan ""I don't mean to tell you how to live dwarf@x400gate.bnr.ca (Internet) your life--that's what the TV's for-- I work for BNR; I do not speak for it. but if I didn't believe in Jesus, I'd be going to hell."" - Peter Heath ",10 "18 Apr 93 God's Promise in Philippians 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. Philippians 4:9 ",19 "Candlestick Park experience (long) I've been a Giants season ticket holder for years and never really complained about the old ballyard place. Sure, it's been cold, the food lines were long, and the hired hands were surly, but this was all part of the Giants mystique. Or so I thought. I went to Tuesday's game (3 - 1 Giants over the Marlins) and the 'Stick was a much different place. Nothing short of a dome will eliminate the wind, but everything is a lot better. The lines are a lot shorter, the bathrooms are CLEAN and have running water, and the hired hands were very polite. The new foghorn (lights up and blows after each homerun) and the wooden fence are very nice, as are the new bleachers. The bleachers start right at the top of the fence and give a great view, and they've got beer stands at the bottome of the bleachers. The only complaint is that the electronic old-fashioned scoreboard looks electronic - could be better. These things should have been done a long time ago, but it took a real businessman (ex - Safeway President Peter Magowan) to figure it out. Just like he used to tell his checkers, ""If the customers don't come back, I don't need as many checkers"". This isn't a knock on Bob Lurie - he was a competent businessman but he didn't deal much with the general public. I'll give an example of how the level of service has changed. The onion dispenser jammed as I was using it. An attendant came over, apoligized for the problem and proceeded to fix the machine. After he was done, he cleaned the machine and said he was glad to be able to help. In the old days, there was no attendant and the folks at the concession stands would say ""Go to the stand 100 feet away - they might be able to help"". All in all, it was a fun day -- Craig Eid e-mail address craige@hpsad.sad.hp.com ",9 "Re: Clipper considered harmful [Restated and amplified] In article <1993Apr26.145937.3570@wdl.loral.com> koontzd@phobos.lrmsc.loral.com (David Koontz ) writes: >Clipper also allows an extraordinary opportunity for the criminal to >conceal use of super-encryption. An automated full-system surveillance >mechanism (quite feasible across radio bandwidth) which knows family key F, >can validate Clipper wrappers and N:ESN associations, but it cannot reveal >in realtime the use of super-encryption, unless it knows all unit keys, >which we are being assured are only to be made available in two separate >pieces, upon specific wiretap-like order. The serial number will be in a 64 bit block, with a 34 bit filler. Doesn't take a lot to check to see if that is correct. Depends on whether the filler is a constant (makes checking easy, but susceptible to replay), or variable (e.g. timer, counter, random), which makes replay harder and can also make it easier for the inquisitors to know if they've missed messages, or gotten them out of sequence, or other interesting things that sort of person might care about. It is still easy to conceal super-encryption, at least until the inquisitors get ahold of the K key, which can take a while, presumably not in near-real-time. (Worst-case, in which the escrow agencies provide the U key to the local cops, still only gets one side of the conversation per warrant, unless the same key is used for both directions, which I suppose the CAPSTONE version of the chip will probably insist on.) -- # Pray for peace; Bill # Bill Stewart 1-908-949-0705 wcs@anchor.att.com AT&T Bell Labs 4M312 Holmdel NJ # No, I'm *from* New Jersey, I only *work* in cyberspace.... # White House Commect Line 1-202-456-1111 fax 1-202-456-2461 ",11 "Re: Formal Rebuttal to the Presumption of Jurisdiction In article <1993Apr5.045612.14229@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes: > [...] You're not breathing clean air provided by government > regulations, [...] If this doesn't beat all I ever heard! The above certainly says a mouthful about the mindset of Ted Frank, and also of statists everywhere. -- The views expressed herein are | Theodore A. Kaldis my own only. Do you seriously | kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu believe that a major university | {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis as this would hold such views??? | ",18 "Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? In article reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu writes: > The real problem was > that Christians were pacifist and preached there was only one god. When the > state operates by a system of divinitation of the emperor - monotheism > becomes a capital offense. The Jews were able to get exemption from this, > and were also not evangelistic. I disagree with your claim that Jews were not evangelistic (except in the narrow sense of the word). Jewish proselytism was widespread. There are numerous accounts of Jewish proselytism, both in the New Testament and in Roman and Greek documents of the day. -- =Jim eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert) ",15 "Chaos Editions: IDEA (Internation Directory of Electronic Arts) I've borrowed the 1992-93 version of this book from a friend...holy moley! What a wealth of contacts. Five-hundred pages of information about electronic artists and organizations around the globe (many have email addresses). An up to the minute database of this information is also available on Minitel (the book's based in France...are there any Internet=>Minitel gates?). The book is printed in French and English. To have you or your organization listed in IDEA, just send your information to: Annick Bureaud IDEA 57, rue Falguiere 75015 Paris France It's free to be listed in it, I'm not sure how widely distributed the book is or how much it costs. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, I was just impressed by their collection of organizations and artists. I highly encourage all involved in electronic media (video, music, graphics, animation, etc.) to send in your entry and encourage them to make their database available on Internet. ...e -- Ed Stastny | OTIS Project, END PROCESS, SOUND News and Arts PO BX 241113 | FTP: sunsite.unc.edu (/pub/multimedia/pictures/OTIS) Omaha, NE 68124-1113 | 141.214.4.135 (projects/otis) ---------------------- EMail: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu, ed@sunsite.unc.edu ",1 "Re: Cold Gas tanks for Sounding Rockets In article <3918@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> rdl1@ukc.ac.uk (R.D.Lorenz) writes: >Does anyone know how to size cold gas roll control thruster tanks >for sounding rockets? Well, first you work out how much cold gas you need, then make the tanks big enough. Our sounding rocket payload, with telemetry, guidance, etc. etc. and a telescope cluster, weighs around 1100 pounds. It uses freon jets for steering and a pulse-width-modulated controller for alignment (ie during our eight minutes in space, the jets are pretty much continuously firing on a ~10% duty cycle or so...). The jets also need to kill residual angular momentum from the spin stabilization, and flip the payload around to look at the Sun. We have two freon tanks, each holding ~5 liters of freon (I'm speaking only from memory of the last flight). The ground crew at WSMR choose how much freon to use based on some black-magic algorithm. They have extra tank modules that just bolt into the payload stack. This should give you an idea of the order of magnitude for cold gas quantity. If you really need to know, send me email and I'll try to get you in touch with our ground crew people. Cheers, Craig -- DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK! ",14 "UART needed I need to find a UART that will interface to an 8051 and do the following: -250k baud, 8 data bits, 2 stop bits, no parity -ability to do BREAK detect (IRQ or output pin) -IRQ on character received I'm using a Dallas DS2250 at 16 Mhz (8051 clone), but it won't do break detect. I've looked at the 6850, 8251, 7201, 2661, etc... Any help would be appriciated!!! ",12 "Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?) -*---- I think that part of the problem is that I have proposed a definition of science that I intended to be interpreted broadly and that Lee Lady has interpreted fairly narrowly. My definition is this: Science is the investigation of the empirical that avoids mistakes in reasoning and methodology discovered from previous work. Lee Lady writes: > I don't think that science should be defined in a way that some > of the activities that lead to really important science --- namely > thinking and informal exploration --- are not recognized as > scientific work. Unless one classifies ""thinking and informal exploration"" as a mistake, they fall under my definition. I hope no one would consider speculation, thinking, and informal exploration as unscientific. In article lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes: > Seriously, I'm not sure whether I misjudged you or not, in one respect. > I still have a major problem, though, with your insistence that science > is mainly about avoiding mistakes. ... Here is where I think we are talking at cross-purposes. It is not clear to me that the kind of definition I have proposed should be taken as describing what ""science is mainly about."" Consider, for example, a definition of invertebrates as all animals lacking a backbone. This fairly tells what is an invertebrate and what is not an invertebrate, but it hardly tells you what invertebrates are all about. One can read this definition and still not know that 95% of all animal species are invertebrates, that invertebrates possess a remarkably broad range of form, that some invertebrate groups -- such as insects and nematodes -- are ubiquitous in all ecosystems, etc. In short, knowing the definition of invertebrates does *not* tell one what they are ""mainly about."" The misunderstanding here is my fault. I did not give sufficient context for people to understand my proposed definition. > Okay, so let's see if we agree on this: FIRST of all, there are degrees > of certainty. It might be appropriate, for instance, to demand carefully > controlled trials before we accept as absolute scientific truth (to the > extent that there is any such thing) the effectiveness of a certain > treatment. On the other hand, highly favorable clinical experience, even > if uncontrolled, can be adequate to justify a *preliminary* judgement that > a treatment is useful. ... > > SECONDLY, it makes sense to be more tolerant in our standards of > evidence for a pronounced effect than for one that is marginal. I agree on both counts. As an example of the second, it would only take a few cases of curing rabies to convince most veterinarians that a treatment was effective, despite a lack of controls. As to the first, I do not think it is useful to talk about ""absolute scientific truth."" I think it is more useful to talk about the kinds of evidence that various claims have and the kinds of evidence IN PARTICULAR FIELDS that in the past have proven faulty or reliable. The latter is obviously a matter of degree, and in each field, practitioners try to discover the relevance of different kinds of evidence. One of the primary mistakes that marks the advocacy of an idea as psuedo-science is that the advocacy lacks any sense of proportion regarding the kinds of evidence related to the proposed claim, the kinds of evidence that are actually relevant to it, and the historical reasons in the field that certain kinds of evidence are given more weight than others. It is perfectly alright to speculate. I have read quite a few refereed papers that speculated left and right. But the authors were careful to identify the notions as speculative, to list what little evidence was presently available for them, and to describe how research could proceed to either put the notion on more firm footing or to uncover its problems. Often what distinguishes whether a paper of this sort passes muster is the thoughtfulness with which the author sets the context and paves the way for future work. (It is in this area that many proponents of speculative ideas fail.) > The folks over in sci.psychology have a hundred and one excuses not to > make this simple test. They claim that only an elaborate outcome study > will be satisfactory --- a study of the sort that NLP practitioners, > many of whom make a barely marginal living from their practice, can ill > afford to do. (Most of them are also just plain not interested, because > the whole idea seems frivolous. And since they're not part of the > scientific establishment, they have no tangible rewards to gain > from scientific acceptance.) I think a lot of scientists steer away from things that -- deserving or not -- garner a patina of kookiness. When proponents of some practice see no value in more careful investigation of that practice, that sets alarms ringing in many researchers' minds. This is unfortunate, because there is undoubtedly some intersection between things that are worth investigating and things that are advocated by those who seem careless or unreasonable in their advocacy. On the other hand, I can understand why many scientists would just as soon select other directions for research. As Gordon Banks has pointed out, no one wants to become this generation's Rhine. > One academic in sci.psychology said that it would be completely > unscientific for him to test the phobia cure since it hasn't > been described in a scientific journal. ... I think this is absurd. > Actually, at least one fairly careful academic study has been done > (with favorable results), but it's apparently not acceptable because > it's a doctoral dissertation and not published in a refereed journal. I wonder why the results were not published. In my field, dissertation results are typically summarized in papers that are submitted to journals. Often the papers are accepted for publication before the dissertation is finished. (This certainly eases one's defense.) Finally, I hope Lee Lady will forgive me from commenting either on NLP or the discussion of it in sci.psychology. I know little about either and so have nothing to offer. Russell ",13 "apple's new keybd What can people tell me about apple's new keyboard, the one that is designed to be more ergonomically friendly? I have begun to experience wrist and hand pains using a standard keyboard, and using a powerbook. What can people with similar experiences tell me? Replies to email please. Paul G. ",4 "Re: 3.5 floppy only reads what IT wrote In article <1434@netxcom.netx.com> pdressne@netxcom.netx.com (Peter Dressner) writes: >I have a Gateway with a 3.5 floppy. The drive only reads files it >wrote to the floppy. Floppies that have been formatted and >contain files from other machines are unreadable. Also, 3.5 floppies >that were written by this defective floppy drive a long time ago are >also unreadable. > >This sounds like a head alignment problem. How does one go about >fixing it? Are there alignment screws that you can adjust? > >Thanks in advance for your responses. > >Peter A friend of mine had the same problem, it turned out that his floppy was set up as a 5 1/4 1.2Mb drive instead of 3.5 1.44Mb..... might help... Matt. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crowley |'Just remember I'll have known that, deep down srg055@uk.ac.coventry.cck |inside, you were just enough of a bastard to be __________________________ worth liking.'__________________________________ ",3 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <115565@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: |> In article <1qi3l5$jkj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> |> >I hope an Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI, which |> >ripped off so many small depositors among the Muslim |> >community in the Uk and elsewhere. |> |> >jon. |> |> Grow up, childish propagandist. Gregg, I'm really sorry if having it pointed out that in practice things aren't quite the wonderful utopia you folks seem to claim them to be upsets you, but exactly who is being childish here is open to question. BBCI was an example of an Islamically owned and operated bank - what will someone bet me they weren't ""real"" Islamic owners and operators? - and yet it actually turned out to be a long-running and quite ruthless operation to steal money from small and often quite naive depositors. And why did these naive depositors put their life savings into BCCI rather than the nasty interest-motivated western bank down the street? Could it be that they believed an Islamically owned and operated bank couldn't possibly cheat them? So please don't try to con us into thinking that it will all work out right next time. jon. ",0 "Re: FAST DOS'VGA and 1024x768x256 windows video card info needed. In article <1993Apr25.220320.26510@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, leo@cae.wisc.edu (Leo Lim) writes: > ok, i have a 486dx50(ISA) w/ Diamond Stealth VRAM 1MB. > I was really satisfied w/ its performance in windows. > but now more and more games needs higher frame rates in DOS' VGA, > especially this new Strike Commander. ;-) > this stealth vram can only give me 17.5 fps. ;-( (i use 3dbench). > my winmark was 6.35 million, i think. > > so right now i'm considering to replace it w/ a new card, which hopefully > can perform approx same w/ my current VRAM in windows and also > can perform DOS' VGA preferably >30fps. > I am ordering the Actix graphicsengine ultra plus. It is the same price as the stealth card. Plus it is also based on S3 928 chip the newest and fastest chip from s3. Everyone, if you are looking for a card, SEE THE APRIL ISSUE OF PC MAGAZINE FOR THEIR REVIEW. They noted this person's problem with dos. The stealth card is not a very good dos performer. The Actix card is rated the best in this chip class (non local bus). It got glowing reports from the magazine (was a best buy) and I called them directly and they just updated their windows drivers last week! They have a bulletin board to get the latest drivers. Though somone posted that this bbs was at 2400. AT any rate, the Actix graphics engine ultra outperforms all the other cards in the 928 class (based on the winmark results). If you are looking for the all around best dos/windows performance check out the actix card. Their 1-800 number is 927-5557. P.S. The article in pc magazine noted that if you are a regular dos user (ie: games) then you should also check out the 801 chip from s3. It apparently scores just as well and in many cases slightly better in dos than the 928 chip (ie: stealth and actix cards.) They have ""comparable"" windows performance and are cheaper to buy. Eric ",2 "Re: So what is the fastest Windows video card for graphics and imaging ? In article <16APR199309101156@trentu.ca>, ayounes@trentu.ca (Amro Younes, Trent University, C.C. #314, Peterborough, ON, Canada K9J 7B8. (705) 749-0391) writes: |> In article , aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca writes... |> >We have heard many bad things about the ATI Ultra Plus card (mainly having |> >to do with its buggy Windows drivers). |> > |> >I would like to replace by ATI Graphics Ultra with a true-colour accelerated |> >card. I was about to buy the ATI Ultra Plus (EISA) but it has had so much |> >bad press that I am reconsidering. |> |> I have the ATI GRAPHICS ULTRA PRO EISA version. I must admit it has |> received bad press but that was due to the faulty drivers it had. Now the |> drivers that are available for the EISA version are the same ones as the ISA |> and Local Bus (v1.5 Build 59). Some people complained about problems they |> had with the Build 59 drivers, fortunately I couldn't duplicate them on my |> machine, but I did have one problem with Harvard Graphics that nobody else |> seemed to have. |> |> > |> >I would like an accelerated card |> > a card that does 24bit true colour at 800x600 at least |> > a card that does 1024x758 at 256 colours (or more) |> > a card that has fast polygon fills |> > a card that has fast bit blits |> > a card that has a robust windows driver |> > a card that has high speed non-interlaced refresh |> > |> >Any suggestions? |> > |> |> I wouldn't recommed the ATI for 24bit colour at 800x600, at this resolution |> the display will be interlaced. But at 16bit it isn't, I thought it was my This doesn't sound right to me. I have an ATI Ultra Pro VLB card with 2MB VRAM, and I'm pretty sure it is not interlaced at 800x600 in 24bit mode. I'm at work right now so I can't check it out, but I know that when I set it up the utility let me specify non-interlaced for this mode. And I haven't noticed it the couple times that I have put the card in this mode in windows, but I could be wrong because I very rarely use this mode. For most of my applications at home 1024x768x16bpp is what I use. Cheers, Phil |> monitor but it isn't, its the card (that is the only time you will get |> interlaced). If I come up with cards more suited for your needs I'll let |> you know. |> |> Amro -- Philip Carmack | pcarmack@kpc.com (408)987-3336 Kubota Pacific Computers, Inc. | ",2 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card In article <1993Apr23.034910.23729@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) says: [many lines deleted] >>subject. It is kind of funny though how you were the only one who picked up >>the part about my sister being a social worker and keeping me up to date on e >th >>gang thing. Everyone else seemed to just skim by that part. > >Actually, those of us who have experience with social workers pointedly >ignored it. Ah, here Freeman is being prejudiced (look it up and see what I mean Freeman). Here Freeman is pre-judging someone before he knows all of the facts. Guess it can happen to the best (and in his case the worst) of us. > >Quit while you're behind, >-andy >-- Freeman thinks I am behind when actually I am quite on top of things. The point he seems to be missing now is that after a certain point accuracy can be very tedious and ridiculous. See Freeman's next post for an explanation. Jason - u28037@uicvm.cc.uic.edu ",16 "Re: A silly question on x-tianity werdna@cco.caltech.edu (Andrew Tong) writes: >mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes: > >>Question 2: This attitude god character seems awfully egotistical >>and proud. But Christianity tells people to be humble. What's the deal? > >Well, God pretty much has a right to be ""egotistical and proud."" I >mean, he created _you_, doesn't he have the right to be proud of such >a job? > >Of course, people don't have much of a right to be proud. What have >they accomplished that can match God's accomplishments, anyways? How >do their abilities compare with those of God's. We're an ""imbecile >worm of the earth,"" to quote Pascal. Grumblegrumble... >If you were God, and you created a universe, wouldn't you be just a >little irked if some self-organizing cell globules on a tiny planet >started thinking they were as great and awesome as you? unfortunately the logic falls apart quick: all-perfect > insulted or threatened by the actions of a lesser creature > actually by offspring > ??????????????????? How/why shuold any all-powerful all-perfect feel either proud or offended? Anything capable of being aware of the relationship of every aspect of every particle in the universe during every moment of time simultaneously should be able to understand the cause of every action of every 'cell globule' on each tniy planet... >Well, actually, now that I think of it, it seems kinda odd that God >would care at all about the Earth. OK, so it was a bad example. But >the amazing fact is that He does care, apparently, and that he was >willing to make some grand sacrifices to ensure our happiness. ""All-powerful, Owner Of Everything in the Universe Makes Great Sacrifices"" makes a great headline but it doesn't make any sense. What did he sacrifice? Where did it go that he couldn't get it back? If he gave something up, who'd he give it up to? -chris [you guys have fun, I'm agoin' to Key West!!] ",0 "Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years..... In article <1993Apr20.154658@IASTATE.EDU>, kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) wrote: > > Let's say that we drop a marble into the black hole. It races, ever faster, > towards the even horizon. But, thanks to the curving of space caused by the > excessive gravity, as the object approaches the event horizon it has further to > travel. Integrating the curve gives a time to reach the event horizon of . . > infinity. So the math says that nothing can enter a black hole. Not true. Only an observer at rest at infinite distance from the black hole will see the particle take infinite time to reach the horizon. In the particle's own reference frame, it takes a very finite time to reach the horizon and the singularity. The math does indeed predict this. Take a look at Mitchner, Thorne, and Wheeler's _Gravitation_. > Peter Walker Don't forget to sing: They say there's a heaven for those who will wait Some say it's better, but I say it ain't I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints The sinners are much more fun Only the good die young! ",0 "Re: [rw] is Robert Weiss the only Orthodox Christian In article <93111.074840LIBRBA@BYUVM.BITNET> LIBRBA@BYUVM.BITNET writes: > > Robert, you keep making references to ""orthodox"" belief, and saying things >like ""it is held that..."" (cf. ""Kermit"" thread). On what exact body of >theology are you drawing for what you call ""orthodox?"" Who is that ""holds >that"" Luke meant what you said he meant? Whenever your personal interpretation >of Biblical passages is challenged, your only response seems >to be that one needs merely to ""look at the Bible"" in order to see the truth, >but what of those who see Biblical things differently from you? Are we to >simply assume that you are the only one who really understands it? Rick, I think we can safely say, 1) Robert is not the only person who understands the Bible, and 2), the leadership of the LDS church historicly never has. Let's consider some ""personal interpretations"" and see how much trust we should put in ""Orthodox Mormonism"", which could never be confused with Orthodox Christianity. In one of his attacks on Christians, the Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie said they ""thrash around in...darkness in trying to identify Elohim and Jehovah and to show their relationship to the promised Messiah."" He also said Christians are wrong to believe ""that Jehovah is the Supreme Deity [God the Father],"" and that Christ ""came into mortality"" as His ""Only Begotten"" Son. McConkie then stated what Mormons believe today to be the truth about the matter. He said that ""Elohim is the Father"" and ""Jehovah is the Son."" ""Being thus aware of how far astray the religious intellectualists have gone in defining their three-in-one God, it comes as no surprise to learn that they thrash around in the same darkness in trying to identify Elohim and Jehovah and to show their relationship to the promised Messiah. Some sectarians even believe that Jehovah is the Supreme Deity whose Son came into mortality as the Only Begotten. As with their concept that God is a Spirit, this misinformation about the Gods of Heaven is untrue. The fact is, and it too is attested by Holy Writ, that Elohim is the Father, and that Jehovah is the Son who was born into mortality as the Lord Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah. (Promised Messiah, p. 100) Notice that McConkie said the Christians are as wrong about their ""three-in-one God"" and their belief that ""God is a Spirit"" as they are in their understanding of who ""Elohim"" and ""Jehovah"" are. Before examining McConkie's attack and its validity, we shall read a few more statements by McConkie and other Mormon sources concerning the words ""Elohim"" and ""Jehovah."" McConkie stated: ""...the chief designation of Christ that has been preserved for us in the Old Testament, as that ancient work is now published, is the exalted name-title Jehovah. (Promised Messiah, p. 367) ""_Elohim_, plural word though it is, is also used as the exalted name-title of God the Eternal Father, a usage that connotes his supremacy and omnipotence, he being God above all Gods. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 224) Agreeing with McConkie on the question of who ""Elohim"" and ""Jehovah"" are, the Apostle James E. Talmage stated: ""_Elohim_, as understood and used in the restored Church of Jesus Christ, is the name-title of God the Eternal Father, whose firstborn Son in the spirit is _Jehovah_ -- the Only Begotten in the flesh, Jesus Christ. (Jesus the Christ, p. 38) ""A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and the Twelve"" apostles of the Mormon Church states that ""God the Eternal Father...[is] designate[d] by the exalted name-title 'Elohim'..."" (Articles of Faith, p. 466) ""...Christ in His preexistent, antemortal, or unembodied state...was known as Jehovah..."" (Articles of Faith, p. 471) Today Mormon leaders teach that ""Elohim"" in the OT refers to God the Father and ""Jehovah"" refers to Christ. McConkie attacked Christians for saying ""Jehovah"" can refer to the Father. He stressed that these two ""name-titles"" should not be changed around so that Christ is called ""Elohim"" and the Father is called ""Jehovah."" ""...the Father...is Elohim, not Jehovah.... Jehovah is Christ, and Christ is Jehovah; they are one and the same person."" (Promised Messiah, p. 111) In the OT of the KJV of the Bible, the Hebrew word ""Elohim"" is used to refer to the true God, false gods and goddesses, and the judges of Israel. When referring to the true God, ""Elohim"" is translated with a capital ""G."" When referring to false gods and goddesses and the judges of Israel, it is translated with a small ""g."" It is translated four times as ""judges"" (Exod. 21:6; 22:8-9), once as ""judge"" (1 Sam. 2:25), twice as ""mighty"" (Gen. 23:6; Exod. 9:28), once as ""angels"" (Ps. 8:5), once as ""godly"" (Mal. 2:15), once as ""great"" (Gen. 30:8), and once as ""very great."" (1 Sam. 14:15) The word ""Jehovah"" is the traditional pronunciation of the tetragrammation YHWH or YHVH with the vowel points taken from the word ""Adonai."" Many people believe the true pronunciation of the tetragrammation was Yahweh or Yahveh. However, since ""Jehovah"" rather than Yahweh is the word used by Mormonism, this section will also use ""Jehovah"" instead of Yahweh to examine the validity of the claims of Mormon leaders regarding that name. ""Jehovah,"" unlike ""Elohim,"" is never used of false gods. It is the personal name of the triune God of the Bible. In the KJV, ""Jehovah"" is rendered primarily ""LORD,"" sometimes ""GOD,"" and rarely ""Lord."" Now that we understand something about the words ""Elohim"" and ""Jehovah"" and their use by Mormon leaders, we shall consider the Apostle McConkie's attack on Christians for believing the Father is ""Jehovah."" In trying to prove that ""Jehovah"" refers exclusively to Christ, McConkie cited several verses from the Bible. Some of these verses and McConkie's interpretation of them will be examined to see whether he was right. Remember, McConkie said the Father is not ""Jehovah;"" He is only ""Elohim."" The first example we shall consider involves McConkie's interpretation of Ps. 110:1. Of this verse he stated: ""Of whom spake David when his tongue was touched by the Holy Spirit and he testified, ""The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?"" (Ps. 110:1.) Two Lords are here involved: one is speaking to the other; one is greater than the other; one is making provision for the triumph and glory of the other. Who are they and what message is contained in this Messianic prophecy? ""What think ye of Christ?"" our Lord asked certain of his detractors toward the end of his mortal ministry. ""Whose son is he?"" Is Christ the Son of God or of someone else? Is he to be born of a divine Parent or will he be as other men -- a mortal son of a mortal father? That he was to be a descendant of David was a matter of great pride to all the Jews. And so they answered, ""The Son of David."" David's son? Truly he was. But he was more, much more. And so our Lord, with irrefutable logic and to their complete discomfiture, asked, ""How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?"" That is, if he is only the Son of David, how is it that the great King, acting under inspiration, calls him Lord and worships him as such? And we might add: _Who is the other Lord, the one who spake unto David's Lord?_ Can there be any question as to how Jesus is interpreting the words of the Psalm? He is saying that it means: '_The Father said unto the Son, Elohim said unto Jehovah_, sit thou on my right hand, until after your mortal ministry; then I will raise you up to eternal glory and exaltation with me, where you will continue to sit on my right hand forever.' (Promised Messiah, pp. 101-102) (emphasis added) Agreeing with the above statement by McConkie, the following remark in the Mormon pamphlet _What the Mormons Think of Christ, p. 6 reads: ""The Lord [Elohim, the Father] said unto my Lord [Jehovah, the Son]..."" (brackets in original) McConkie clearly stated that it is ""Elohim"" the Father who is speaking to ""Jehovah"" the Son in this Psalm. However, when one looks at the Hebrew word translated ""LORD,"" it becomes apparent that either the first ""LORD"" is not the Father or else the Father is ""Jehovah."" Either way McConkie is wrong. The Psalm reads: ""The LORD [Jehovah] said unto my Lord [Adon], Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Ps. 110:1) The first ""LORD"" in this verse is ""Jehovah"" who Mormonism says is Christ, not the Father. The second ""Lord"" is the Hebrew word ""Adon"" (singular for ""Adonai,"" meaning master or lord). If the first ""LORD"" is the Father and the second ""Lord"" is the Son, then the Father is ""Jehovah"" and the Son is ""Adon."" However, if the Father is not ""Jehovah"" as McConkie claimed, then the first ""LORD"" is ""Jehovah"" the Son, but who, then, is ""Adon?"" Obviously the Father is ""Jehovah"" in this Psalm, and His Son is ""Adon."" Another example involves Isa. 42:6 about which McConkie stated the following: ""I the Lord have called thee in righteousness,"" _Isaiah quoted the Father as saying of Christ_, ""and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles."" (Isa. 42:6.) (Promised Messiah, p. 81) (emphasis added) McConkie said the Father was speaking of Christ in this passage which reads: ""I the LORD [Jehovah] have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles. (Isa. 42:6) According to McConkie, ""I the LORD"" refers to the Father, and ""thine"" and ""thee"" refer to Christ. However, the ""LORD"" who is speaking is ""Jehovah"" which means either McConkie was wrong about who is speaking or else the Father is ""Jehovah."" Another example involves Ps. 22:7-8. Of these verses McConkie stated: ""The same Psalm says: ""All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him."" (Ps. 22:7-8.) _The fulfillment, as Jesus hung on the cross_, is found in these words: ""The chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth."" (Matt. 27:41-44.) (Promised Messiah, pp. 530-531) (emphasis added) Ps. 22:7-8 reads as follows: ""All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD [Jehovah] that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. McConkie said these verses had their fulfillment ""as Jesus hung on the cross."" That means the person who was scorned in these verses was Christ. Who, then, was the ""LORD"" in whom he trusted? It was ""Jehovah"" the Father. Another example involves Ps. 31:13 and Ps. 41:9. Regarding them, McConkie stated the following: ""With reference to the conniving and conspiring plots incident to our Lord's arrest and judicial trials the prophecy was: ""They took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my life."" (Ps. 31:13.) As to the role of Judas in those conspiracies, the Psalmist says: ""Mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."" (Ps. 41:9.) (Promised Messiah, p. 532) Apostle McConkie said these Psalms refer to Christ's ""arrest and judicial trials."" We shall first consider Ps. 31 and then Ps. 41. While McConkie only quoted verse 13 of Ps. 31, verse 14 will also be included to give a complete understanding of the matter. ""For I have heard the slander of many: fear was on every side: while they took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my life. But I trusted in thee, O LORD [Jehovah]: I said, Thou art my God [Elohim]. (Ps. 31:13-14) McConkie said verse 13 referred to Jesus Christ. Verse 14 goes on to tell that He (Christ) trusted in the ""LORD"" who is called His ""God"" or ""Elohim."" Mormonism teaches that the God above Jesus is ""Elohim"" the Father. Verse 14, however, reveals that the ""Elohim"" of the man Jesus is ""Jehovah"" the Father. In Ps. 41, McConkie only quoted one verse; however, two verses will be considered in this examination. ""Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me. But thou, O LORD [Jehovah], be merciful unto me, and raise me up, that I may requite them. (Ps. 41:9-10) McConkie stated above that verse 9 referred to Judas' role in Christ's death. Since it was Judas who was the ""familiar friend"" who ""lifted up his heel,"" the pronouns ""mine,"" ""I,"" ""my,"" and ""me"" in verse 9 must refer to Christ. Notice that at the beginning of verse 10 there is a change of pronoun to ""thou,"" which refers to the ""LORD"" (Jehovah). Then the pronouns ""me"" and ""I"" which refer to Christ are used again. That means Christ was speaking to ""Jehovah"" the Father in these verses. Another example involves McConkie's following remark about Ps. 110:4. ""One of the great Messianic prophecies, spoken by the mouth of David, says: ""The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."" (Ps. 110:4.) (Promised Messiah, p. 450) McConkie admitted this is a Messianic prophecy involving Christ. The question is, What in this verse refers to Christ? ""The LORD [Jehovah] hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. (Ps. 110:4) Does the ""LORD,"" which is ""Jehovah,"" refer to Christ? If McConkie is right and Jesus is ""Jehovah,"" but the Father is not, then the ""LORD"" would have to refer to Christ. But who, then, is the one addressed as the ""priest forever after the order of Melchizedek?"" The Bible reveals that the one referred to is Jesus Christ (Heb. 5:8-10; 6:20; 7); therefore, the ""LORD"" (Jehovah) in Ps. 110:4 is the Father. Another example involves Isa. 53:4-12. Of these verses McConkie stated: ""Of the atoning sacrifice of the future Messiah, Isaiah said... The _Lord_ has laid on him the iniquities of us all.... It pleased the _Lord_ to bruise him... (Promised Messiah, p. 234) (emphasis added) McConkie rightly said these verses refer to ""the atoning sacrifice of the future Messiah."" However, what he failed to mention is that they also prove that the Father is ""Jehovah."" Verse 6 reads: ""All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD [Jehovah] hath laid on him [Christ] the iniquity of us all,"" and verse 10 reads: ""Yet it pleased the LORD [Jehovah] to bruise him [Christ]..."" Obviously the ""LORD"" who laid on Christ ""the iniquity of us all"" and who bruised Him is God the Father who is called ""Jehovah"" in these verses. Remember, McConkie stated that ""some sectarians even believe that Jehovah is the Supreme Deity,"" and that Christ ""came into mortality"" as His ""Only Begotten"" Son. He called this concept ""misinformation"" that is ""untrue."" To prove that it is McConkie who is misinformed and believing untruth, two Scriptural references (2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 2:7) will be examined. McConkie stated the following regarding these Scriptures: ""In the midst of a passage that is clearly Messianic, the Lord says of the Seed of David: ""I will be his father, and he shall be my son."" (2 Sam. 7:14.) In the second Psalm, the whole of which is also clearly Messianic, occurs this statement: ""Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."" (Ps. 2:7.) Paul quotes both of these statements in Hebrews 1:5 and says they are prophecies that Christ would come as the Son of God. (Promised Messiah, p. 143) McConkie cited Heb. 1:5 to show that 2 Sam. 7:14 and Ps. 2:7 refer to Christ who ""would come as the Son of God."" Since McConkie first referenced 2 Sam. 7:14, this examination will, too. However, along with verse 14, verses 11-13 will also be included. ""And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD [Jehovah] telleth thee that he will make thee an house. And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. (2 Sam. 7:11-14) These verses teach that the ""LORD"" (Jehovah) would have a Son, the Messiah. In the second example McConkie cited Ps. 2:7. This examination will include verse 8. Notice that it is the ""LORD"" (Jehovah) who says, ""Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."" ""I will declare the decree: the LORD [Jehovah] hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. McConkie said these verses of Scripture are ""clearly Messianic,"" and he acknowledged they teach that ""Christ would come as the Son of God."" What he is not willing to acknowledge, however, is that these Scriptures also teach that the Father is ""Jehovah"" and that the ""sectarians"" who believe ""Jehovah is the Supreme Deity whose Son"" is Jesus Christ, ""the Only Begotten,"" are right in their belief. Another example involves Mic. 5:4. Of this verse McConkie stated the following: ""And so, truly, did our Lord act _during his mortal ministry! Truly, this is he of whom it is written_: ""He shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God... for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth."" (Mic. 5:4.) (Promised Messiah, p. 182) (emphasis added) According to McConkie, the pronoun ""He"" at the beginning of Mic. 5:4 refers to Christ ""during his mortal ministry."" Who, then, is the ""LORD his God?"" Mic. 5:4 reads: ""And he [Christ] shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD [Jehovah], in the majesty of the name of the LORD [Jehovah] his God [Elohim]... for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. Obviously the ""LORD"" of Jesus Christ is ""Jehovah"" the Father who is referred to as ""Jehovah his Elohim."" Another example involves Ps. 2:2 and Isa. 61:1. Of these verses McConkie stated the following: ""A number of Messianic passages speak of ""the Lord, and...his anointed"" (Ps. 2:2), signifying that the Chosen One was consecrated and set apart for the ministry and mission that was his. _Jesus applied these passages to himself_ by quoting Isaiah's prophecy. ""The Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek"" (Isa. 61:1), and then saying: ""This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears"" (Luke 4:21). (Promised Messiah, pp. 182-183) (emphasis added) The first source McConkie quoted -- Ps. 2:2 -- reads as follows: ""The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD [Jehovah], and against his anointed. McConkie said the ""anointed"" one was Christ. If that is true, who was ""Jehovah?"" If ""Jehovah"" is always Christ, who was the ""anointed"" one? Obviously ""Jehovah"" is referring to God the Father and the ""anointed"" is indeed referring to Christ. The second source McConkie cited is Isa. 61:1 which states: ""The Spirit of the Lord [Adonai] GOD [Jehovah] is upon me; because the LORD [Jehovah] hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; The one who was anointed to preach, bind up, proclaim, and open was Jesus Christ. Who, then, was the one who anointed Him? This verse says the ""LORD"" (Jehovah) did the anointing. Again, we face the same problem. If ""Jehovah"" does not refer to the Father, but only to Christ, then Jesus anointed someone, but who? As McConkie pointed out, ""Jesus applied these passages to himself."" Therefore, the ""Jehovah"" who anointed Christ is God the Father. Other examples could be cited to show that McConkie and other Mormon leaders are wrong when they say God the Father is not ""Jehovah."" However, these should be enough to expose their error. Now, what about Mormonism's claim that Jesus is ""Jehovah,"" but He is not ""Elohim?"" It is true that Jesus is ""Jehovah."" The following Scriptures prove this fact: ""Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah] the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. (Isa. 44:6) [Jesus said] ...I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead... (Rev. 1:17-18) ""...saith the LORD [Jehovah]...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son... (Zech. 12:1,10) Behold, he [Christ] cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him... (Rev. 1:7) ""...I am the LORD [Jehovah] thy God, the Holy One of Israel... (Isa. 43:3) ...Ye denied the Holy One [Christ] and the Just... (Acts 3:14) ""And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD [Jehovah] shall be delivered... (Joel 2:32) ""...the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth...there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:10,12) ""Behold, the Lord GOD [Jehovah] will come with strong hand...his reward is with him... (Isa. 40:10) ...Behold, I [Christ] come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Rev. 22:12) ""...the LORD [Jehovah] my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (Zech. 14:5) ""...at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. (1 Thess. 3:13) ""The LORD [Jehovah] is my shepherd... (Ps. 23:1) [Jesus said] I am the good shepherd... (John 10:14) ""...saith the Lord GOD [Jehovah]. I will seek that which was lost... (Ezek. 34:15-16) ...the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10) ""For I am the LORD [Jehovah] thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour... (Isa. 43:3) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. (Tit. 2:13. See also Jer. 42:5 and Rev. 1:5; Mal. 3:6 and Heb. 13:8; 1 Kin. 8:28,39 and John 2:24-25; Isa. 25:8 and 2 Tim. 1:10; Ps. 107:24,29 and Matt. 8:26; Prov.3:12 and Rev. 3:19) While Mormons are right when they say Jesus is ""Jehovah,"" they are wrong when they say He is not ""Elohim."" The Bible reveals that ""Jehovah"" is the only true ""Elohim"" there is; all others are false. Remember, ""Jehovah"" is the personal name of the triune God who has revealed Himself in the Bible. Before we consider Biblical quotes which show that ""Jehovah"" and ""Elohim"" are not two separate gods as Mormons claims let us first note that not only are both God the Father and Christ addressed as ""Jehovah"" and ""Elohim"" but so is the Holy Spirit. ""Whereof the _Holy Ghost_..._said_...This _is_ the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (Heb. 10:15-17) (emphasis on ""Holy Ghost"" and ""said"" added) Behold, the days come, _saith the LORD_ [Jehovah], that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah... I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God [Elohim], and they shall be my people.... I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jer. 31:31,33-34) (emphasis added) ""For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the _Holy Ghost_. (2 Pet. 1:21) (emphasis on ""Holy Ghost"" added) ""The Spirit of the LORD [Jehovah] spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. (2 Sam. 23:2. See also Heb. 3:7-11 with Ps. 95:6-11) Let us now continue with the Biblical quotes which show that ""Jehovah"" and ""Elohim"" are not two separate gods as Mormons claim. ""And when the LORD [Jehovah] saw that he [Moses] turned aside to see, God [Elohim] called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.... [Bruce R. McConkie acknowledged that ""it was"" Christ's ""voice that spoke to Moses in the burning bush..."" Promised Messiah, p. 394] And the LORD [Jehovah] said... And Moses said unto God [Elohim], Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God [Elohim] of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God [Elohim] said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God [Elohim] said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD [Jehovah] God [Elohim] of your fathers, the God [Elohim] of Abraham, the God [Elohim] of Isaac, and the God [Elohim] of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (Exod. 3:4,7,13-15) ""And God [Elohim] spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD [Jehovah]. (Exod. 6:2) ""I am the LORD [Jehovah], and there is none else, there is no God [Elohim] beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (Isa. 45:5) ""But the LORD [Jehovah] is the true God [Elohim], he is the living God [Elohim], and an everlasting king... (Jer. 10:10) ""Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah] the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God [Elohim]. (Isa. 44:6) ""Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD [Jehovah], whose name is The God [Elohim] of hosts. (Amos 5:27) ""Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's [Jehovah's] thy God [Elohim], the earth also, with all that therein is. (Deut. 10:14) ""Wherefore thou art great, O LORD [Jehovah] God [Elohim]: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God [Elohim] beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. (2 Sam. 7:22) ""And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD [Jehovah], the God [Elohim] of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land. (Jon. 1:9) ""For who is God [Elohim] save the LORD [Jehovah]? or who is a rock save our God [Elohim]? (Ps. 18:31) ""Blessed is the nation whose God [Elohim] is the LORD [Jehovah]... (Ps. 33:12. See also Ps. 144:15) ""Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God [Elohim], the LORD [Jehovah], the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. (Isa. 40:28) ""The mighty God [Elohim], even the LORD [Jehovah], hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. (Ps. 50:1) ""Sing unto God [Elohim], sing praises to his name: estol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him. (Ps. 68:4) [Regarding the word ""Jah,"" Bruce R. McConkie stated: ""Jah (Hebrew Yah) is a contracted form of Jehovah, Jahveh, or Yahweh -- all of which names have reference to Christ, the God of Israel."" Mormon Doctrine, p. 391] ""And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God [Elohim], whose name is called by the name of the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims. (2 Sam. 6:2) ""...the Great the Mighty God [Elohim], the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts, is his name. (Jer. 32:18) ""O my God [Elohim], make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.... Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD [Jehovah].... That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. (Ps. 83:13,16,18) The Bible clearly teaches that ""Jehovah"" is ""Elohim."" In fact, He is the only ""Elohim"" there is. He is the ""true,"" the ""living,"" the ""mighty,"" the ""great,"" and the ""everlasting Elohim."" He is the ""Elohim"" of Israel, of all the kingdoms of the earth, and of the heavens. He is the Creator who made the heavens and all their host and the earth and all that dwell thereon. ""Jehovah's"" name is ""Elohim of hosts."" (Amos 5:27) Not only is ""Jehovah,"" ""Elohim,"" but ""Elohim"" is ""Jehovah."" The Bible reveals that ""Elohim's"" name is ""Jah"" (Ps. 68:4), ""Jehovah"" (Ps. 83:18), and ""Jehovah of hosts."" (2 Sam. 6:2; Jer. 32:18) The nation whose ""Elohim"" is ""Jehovah"" is blessed. (Ps. 33:12) Clearly, this is not the ""Jehovah"" and ""Elohim"" of the Mormons. Another Mormon error regarding ""Elohim"" and ""Jehovah"" is the belief that ""Elohim,"" not ""Jehovah,"" is the Father of all the spirits, including Jesus. In the Articles of Faith by Apostle James E. Talmage, ""A Doctrinal Exposition by The First Presidency and The Twelve"" apostles states that ""God the Eternal Father...'Elohim,' is the literal Parent of...the spirits of the human race."" (p. 466) This ""Doctrinal Exposition"" also states explicitly that ""Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim."" (p. 473) The Apostle Talmage stated that ""_Elohim_...is the name-title of God the Eternal Father, whose firstborn Son in the spirit is _Jehovah_--"" (Jesus the Christ, p. 38) The Apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated the following about this matter: ""...Jehovah-Christ...did in fact create the earth and all forms of plant and animal life on the face thereof. _But when it came to placing man on earth, there was a change in Creators_. That is, the Father himself became personally involved. All things were created by the Son, using the power delegated by the Father, except man. _In the spirit and again in the flesh, man was created by the Father_. There was no delegation of authority where the crowning creature of creation was concerned."" (Promised Messiah, p. 62) (emphasis added) Mormon leaders claim that ""Jehovah-Christ"" did not create either man's spirit or his body. They maintain that the Mormon ""Elohim,"" who is the father, created man both in spirit and body. The Bible reveals the truth about who created man. ""And Moses spake unto the LORD [Jehovah], saying, Let the LORD [Jehovah], the God [Elohim] of the _spirits of all flesh_, set a man over the congregation. (Num. 27:15-16. See also 16:20-23) (emphasis added) ""...the LORD [Jehovah], which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and _formeth the spirit of man within him_. (Zech. 12:1) (emphasis added) ""...the LORD [Jehovah]...made us this soul... (Jer. 38:16) ""For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the _souls which I have made_.... ...saith the LORD [Jehovah]... (Isa. 57:16,19) (emphasis on ""souls...I have made"" added) ""Behold, I am the LORD [Jehovah], the God [Elohim] _of all flesh_... (Jer. 32:27) (emphasis added) ""Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah], thy redeemer, and he that _formed thee from the womb_. I am the LORD [Jehovah] that maketh all things... (Isa. 44:24) (emphasis added) ""Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah]... I have made the earth, and _created man_ upon it... (Isa. 45:11-12) (emphasis added) ""...God [Elohim] created man upon the earth... Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD [Jehovah] he is God [Elohim]; there is none else beside him. (Deut. 4:32,35) ""Thus saith God [El] the LORD [Jehovah]...he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein. (Isa. 42:5) ""...Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah] of hosts, the God [Elohim] of Israel... I have made the earth, _the man_ and the beast that are upon the ground... (Jer. 27:4-5) (most emphasis added) The Bible reveals that it is ""Jehovah"" who is the ""Elohim of the spirits of all flesh"" and ""of all flesh"" itself, that it was He who ""formed the spirit of man within him,"" that He ""made us this soul"" and ""formed us from the womb."" He did indeed ""create man."" If Mormon leaders are right when they say Jesus is ""Jehovah,"" then they are wrong when they say he did not create man. If they are right when they say the father is the one who created man, then they are wrong when they say he is not ""Jehovah."" Although Mormon leaders teach that Jesus did not create man, Mormon scriptures teach that he did. The BoM states the following: ""Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.... And never have I showed myself unto _man whom I have created_, for never has man believed in me as thou hast.... Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and _man have I created_ after the body of my spirit... (Eth. 3:14-16) (emphasis added) ""For it is I that taketh upon me the sins of the world; for it is _I that hath created them_... (Mos. 26:23) (emphasis added) ""...the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob...is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. Behold _he created Adam_... (Mor. 9:11-12) (emphasis added) D&C, 93:10 states that ""the worlds were made by him [Christ]; _men were made by him_; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him."" (emphasis added) Another error by Bruce R. McConkie involving ""Jehovah"" and his creation is the belief that ""Jehovah"" had ""many"" pre-mortal spirits helping him create. Included in this alleged group was Joseph Smith, Jr. ""That he [Christ] was aided in the creation of this earth by ""many of the noble and great"" spirit children of the Father is evident from Abraham's writings. Unto those superior spirits Christ said: ""We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell."" (Abra. 3:22-24.) Michael or Adam was one of these. Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Peter, James, and John, Joseph Smith, and many other ""noble and great"" ones played a part in the great creative enterprise. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 74-75.) (Mormon Doctrine, p. 169) The Bible reveals the truth about this matter: ""Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah], thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD [Jehovah] that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. (Isa. 44:24) ""Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. (Job 9:8) ""Jehovah,"" by Himself, created all things. He had no alleged preexistent spirit helpers assisting Him. Regarding the Mormon 'Elohim,"" the Apostle McConkie stated: ""Elohim. plural word though it is, is also used as the exalted name-title of God the Eternal Father, a usage that connotes his supremacy and omnipotence, he being God above all Gods."" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 224) He also stated that ""Jesus...is above all save the Father only."" (Promised Messiah, p. 363) The Bible states that the One who is God above all so-called gods is the triune God ""Jehovah."" ""For the LORD [Jehovah] is a great God [El], and a great King above all gods [Elohim]. (Ps. 95:3) ""For thou, LORD [Jehovah], art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods [Elohim]. (Ps. 97:9) ""Now I know that the LORD [Jehovah] is greater than all gods [Elohim]... (Exod. 18:11. See also Ps. 135:5; Deut. 10:17) If Mormon leaders are right when they say ""Jehovah"" is god the son and ""Elohim"" is god the father, these verses from the Bible would be teaching that the Mormon son is above his father. However, as McConkie clearly stated, Mormons believe ""Elohim"" the father, not ""Jehovah"" the son, is the ""God above all Gods"" -- that Jesus is above all except the father; yet the Bible teaches that ""Jehovah"" is above all ""Elohim."" At a BYU Dev. on March 2, 1982, Bruce R. McConkie made the following remark about praying to Jesus: ""Another peril is that those so involved often begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed.... This is plain sectarian nonsense. Our prayers are addressed to the Father, and to him only.... ...Perfect prayer is addressed to the Father, in the name of the Son; it is uttered by the power of the Holy Ghost... (Our Relationship With the Lord, pp. 19-20) McConkie states on p. 335 of his book Promised Messiah that the Mormons ""pray to the Father, not the Son..."" On p. 306 of the same book McConkie states that ""Christ [the Son] is Jehovah."" This is important to remember, because although McConkie said prayer is not to be offered to the Mormon Christ who is ""Jehovah,"" the Bible states repeatedly in the OT that people prayed to ""Jehovah,"" and He not only heard those prayers, but He accepted them as valid requests. The following is but a small sample of the vast number of times people prayed to ""Jehovah."" ""In my distress I called upon the LORD [Jehovah], and cried unto my God [Elohim]: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears. (Ps. 18:6) ""And the LORD [Jehovah] said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. (1 Kin. 9:3) ""And said unto Jeremiah the prophet, Let, we beseech thee, our supplication be accepted before thee, and pray for us unto the LORD [Jehovah] thy God [Elohim], even for all this remnant... (Jer. 42:2) ""O LORD [Jehovah], I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant, and to the prayer of thy servants, who desire to fear thy name... (Neh. 1:11) ""And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto the LORD [Jehovah], he arose from before the altar of the LORD [Jehovah], from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven. (1 Kin. 8:54) ""He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD [Jehovah]. (2 Kin. 4:33) ""Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD [Jehovah], the God [Elohim] of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years. (Isa. 38:5) ""I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD [Jehovah]; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found... (Ps. 32:5-6) Notice above in Ps. 32:6 that the ""godly"" pray to ""Jehovah."" According to McConkie and other Mormon leaders, that is Christ the very one to whom McConkie said people should not pray. The Bible reveals there is only one true ""Elohim,"" and His name is ""Jehovah."" All other ""Elohim"" are false. They are idols that cause their followers to commit adultery against the true ""Elohim"" and idolatry. ""For the LORD [Jehovah] is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods [Elohim]. For all the gods [Elohim] of the nations are idols: but the LORD [Jehovah] made the heavens. (Ps. 96:4-5) ""Thou shalt have no other gods [Elohim] before me. (Exod. 20:3) ""Now I know that the LORD [Jehovah] is greater than all gods [Elohim]... (Exod. 18:11) ""And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD [Jehovah] thy God [Elohim], and walk after other gods [Elohim], and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. (Deut. 8:19) ""Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods [Elohim]. They shall not dwell in thy land, lest they make thee sin against me: for if thou serve their gods [Elohim], it will surely be a snare unto thee. (Exod. 23:32- 33) ""Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods [Elohim], and worship them. (Deut. 11:16) ""That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods [Elohim], nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them. (Josh. 23:7) ""...neither walk after other gods [Elohim] to your hurt. (Jer. 7:6) ""But the LORD [Jehovah] is the true God [Elohim], he is the living God [Elohim]... (Jer. 10:10) ""And they forsook the LORD [Jehovah] God [Elohim] of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods [Elohim], of the gods [Elohim] of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD [Jehovah] to anger. (Jud. 2:12) ""Shall a man make gods [Elohim] unto himself, and they are no gods [Elohim]? Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is the LORD [Jehovah]. ( Jer. 16:20-21) ""And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD [Jehovah], choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods [Elohim] which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods [Elohim] of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD [Jehovah]. And the people answered and said, God [Elohim] forbid that we should forsake the LORD [Jehovah], to serve other gods [Elohim]. (Josh. 24:15-16) These verses teach that the only true, living ""Elohim"" in heaven and on earth is ""Jehovah"" -- the triune God who made heaven and earth and all therein. ""Jehovah"" is greater than any ""Elohim,"" because all other ""Elohim"" are idols. The reality behind them is demonic. (Deut. 32:17) ""Jehovah Elohim"" has given explicit warnings and guidelines regarding these false ""Elohim."" He told His people not to have any ""Elohim"" but Him. He told the people that if they left Him for the false ""Elohim,"" those ""Elohim"" would be a snare to them, and they would be hurt and would perish. He warned the people to ""take heed"" that their ""heart be not deceived"" into worshiping, serving, swearing by, and making covenants with false ""Elohim."" ""Jehovah Elohim"" told His people He would eventually judge all false ""Elohim"" and their followers. Despite these warnings and guidelines, ""Elohim's"" covenant people forsook Him and believed in and worshiped the false ""Elohim's"" of the people they came in contact with. Ju. 10:6 states that ""the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD [Jehovah] and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods [Elohim] of Syria, and the gods [Elohim] of Zidon, and the gods [Elohim] of Moab, and the gods [Elohim] of the children of Ammon, and the gods [Elohim] of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD [Jehovah], and served not him."" This examination has shown that the ""Elohim"" of Mormonism, like the ""Elohim"" in Ju. 10:6 is not the true ""Jehovah Elohim."" Therefore, the people who leave the true ""Elohim"" for the Mormon ""Elohim"" will do ""evil...in the sight of the LORD [Jehovah]."" Although McConkie attacked Christians for their belief in a triune God who is Spirit and for their belief that God the Father [Jehovah] sent His Son into the world, these beliefs are true. God is triune; He is Spirit; He is ""Jehovah;"" and He did send His Son into the world to redeem mankind. It is obvious from this examination that it is not the Christians who ""thrash around in...darkness"" about who ""Elohim"" and ""Jehovah"" are. One wonders what ""Holy Writ"" McConkie had in mind when he stated that it attests to the fact that ""Elohim is the Father, and that Jehovah is the Son."" He certainly did not mean the Bible which teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the one ""Jehovah Elohim."" He apparently did not mean the D&C either, because chapter 109, verses 1,4,9-10, 14,19,22,24,29,34,42,47,56,68,77 refer to the Father as ""Jehovah."" Summary Obviously Joseph Fielding Smith's statement that the Mormons ""have a clear and perfect understanding of the nature of God"" (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:279) is not accurate. The Mormon gods are not the true God as Mormonism claims, but are idols which cause their followers to commit adultery against God and idolatry. In answer to Jesus' question, ""But whom say ye that I am,"" Mormons say Jesus is someone different from the Jesus who is revealed in the Bible and whom the apostles preached. Therefore, anyone trusting in the Mormon Jesus is believing in ""another Jesus"" whom Paul warned about. Bernard P. Brockbank, of the First Quorum of the Seventy, admitted in the May 1977 issue of The Ensign, a Mormon publication, that the Mormon Jesus is different from the Christian Jesus. He stated that ""it is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."" (p. 26) The people who believe in the Mormon Jesus are committing adultery against God and idolatry. They do not have the Son; therefore, they do not have the Father, and they do not have eternal life. As the Apostle Bruce R. McConkie rightly stated: ""Salvation comes only by worshiping the true God."" (Promised Messiah, p. 163) McConkie also rightly stated that ""the mere worship of a god who has the proper scriptural names does not assure one that he is worshiping the true and living God,"" because the ""true names of Deity"" can be applied to ""false concepts of God."" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 270) Remember that the Apostle Stephen L. Richards admitted that Joseph Smith, Jr., gave ""a new conception of God and the Godhead."" (Contributions of Joseph Smith, p. 1) It is important for the people who have left the true triune God revealed in the Bible to repent and return to Him. They must forsake the sins of idolatry and adultery which they are committing in Mormonism. The Bible says: ""...all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD [Jehovah], the fountain of living waters. (Jer. 17:13) ""And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD [Jehovah] thy God [Elohim], and walk after other gods [Elohim], and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. (Deut. 8:19) ""Thou shalt make no covenant with...their gods [Elohim]. (Exod. 23:32) ""...Put away the strange gods [Elohim] that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments. (Gen. 35:2) ""...flee from idolatry. (1 Cor. 10:14) It is necessary that Christians heed the warnings of the Bible. If they do, they will not fall into the sins of adultery against God and idolatry. Remember, to know the ""only true God"" is eternal life. (John 17:3) ""...their gods [Elohim] shall be a snare unto you."" (Ju. 2:3. See also Exod. 23:32-33) ",19 "More Diamond SS 24X Has anyone experienced a faint shadow at all resolutions using this card. Is only in Windows. I have replaced card and am waiting on latest drivers. Also have experienced General Protection Fault Errors in WSPDPSF.DRV on Winword Tools Option menu and in WINFAX setup. I had a ATI Ultra but was getting Genral Protection Fault errors in an SPSS application. These card manufactures must have terrible quality control to let products on the market with so many bugs. What a hassle. Running on Gateway 2000 DX2/50. Thx Dave L ",2 "Luser! Awesley wrote: That was the entire point to *you*. What exactly did I claim? -------------------------------------------------- ""I've heard eye-witness descriptions of tanks using their main guns to respond to sniper fire. Quite effectively."" -------------------------------------------------- I wasn't wrong . . . I've heard those descriptions. If you're paying attention, I've mentioned that I saw the tanks with my own eyes, but the main gun firing was an account I heard. That helps people judge whether or not to kick in the, to use your words, ""bullshit filters"". Stating that I *claimed* this is a falsehood. Later in the same post: Another part of my memories was that while most damaged building were burnt, some were in rubble. Based on what I remember, I was and am inclined to believe an old sarge or two. Fine, *now* you are stating that you believe their claims (or that you are ""inclined"" to. See below for a stronger statement of your beliefs). Those claims are still ludicrous, however. Previously Awesley had written: You can also read of the troops using grenade launchers. Prompting me to write: To fire fragmentary grenades? I doubt that as well. To fire concussion grenades? Perhaps. To fire tear gas? Certainly. But you would be perfectly willing to let us believe they fired frags, wouldn't you, since it makes your other claim seem more plausible. To which Awesley replied: John, again, strawman techniques. Do you feel you're losing it so you have to stretch what I said and knock that down? What I read said nothing about what they fired. And so I put nothing in there. If you need some help, let me know and I'l take your side of this for a while. You're not scoring here, you're boring here. But why did you mention grenade launchers at all? Because it supports the notion that the tanks shelled buildings. And it supports that notion because it conjures images of troops launching fragmentary grenades. But that too is ludicrous. I wrote: If tanks had fired their main guns in Detroit, people would have been screaming about it for the past two and half decades. I would know about it. Awesley relied: Glad to know you're such an expert. Nice to hear some an authority. I especially appreciate your basis of knowledge -- if it had happened, you would have know it. Since you are such an authority, you probably know that people did scream about an alleged massive cover-up in the number of people killed in the Detroit riot. Some claimed 100+ dead, others said 300. The offical number is 43 but the Concise Columbia Encyclopedia says it was ""several"". I've also heard some things about that but I won't dare repeat them. You'd assert that I claimed they were truth. Yes, if it happened I would have heard about it. Everybody would have. Army tanks don't fire their cannons in American cities in the 1960's without it becoming common knowledge, without minority leaders seizing on it and condemning it over and over again, without civil libertarians saying ""this has gone far enough."" So, yes, my never hearing of it was the basis for my disbelieving the claim. Now I have more reasons to disbelieve it. Not one poster has written to say, yes, I lived in Detroit at that time and everybody knew that the tanks had fired shells. This is the UseNet. If it had happened, somebody here would remember it. Furthermore, your own research failed to come up with any support for the claim. The claim is extraordinary and it has no supporting evidence, extraordinary or not. Unless you count the brags of a couple of guardsmen shooting the shit. I do not. I wrote: Unless you also claim that the National Guard managed to cover it up. Awesley wrote: Taking the tour after the riots, it was pretty easy to tell the difference between Army and Guard troops. Or so I recall from 26 years ago. And I seem to recall it was the Army running the tanks. So it would have been an Army cover-up. Quibble. Fine, it was an Army cover-up. Six years in the Reserves has taught me the difference also. But do you think that in two and half decades not one guilt-ridden participant has come forward and said ""yes, I shelled Americans,"" or ""I gave the orders to fire the cannons,"" or ""I helped cover it up""? I wrote: If your mind is open enough to believe that, well, good for you. I prefer to live in reality. And here in reality, I find it hard to believe that those tanks even had any shells, much less fired them. Awesley replied: Given the level in destruction in Detroit, I'm quite willing to believe that they did fire their guns. Good. Then we can drop the junk about you not claiming that they did. Your belief fails a basic reality check: why isn't it known? Awesley concludes: Now then, we've bored the shit out of anyone whose bothered to read this far and all you've managed to say is that you don't believe the account I cited. Actually, now we have established that I don't believe what you believe, as well as why I don't believe it. And if it's boring, then I yield the last word to you, if you want it. You may say anything you like with impunity--I am dropping the subject. --John L. Scott ",16 "Joe Venuti Record Wanted If anyone has Joe Venuti's record ""Fiddle on Fire"" and would like to sell it please contact me. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard J. Brooks (El Cerrito, CA) Internet: rbrooks@eis.calstate.edu CompuServe: 71121,3406 Internet: 71121.3406@compuserve.com ",6 "Re: Maxima Chain wax In article <1993Apr25.234857.1922@research.nj.nec.com> behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes: > > Interesting. All I can say is that I haven't seen any wear in the >1000 miles I've used the stuff on the Ninja, and the bike stays soooo clean. > On a related note (since UPS lost my Chain Wax and I'm still using PJ-1/Goo), I found some great stuff to clean chain spooge of wheels. It's called Goo Gone and cleaned the spooge off my rear wheel faster than the Simple Green cleaned the bug guts off my headlight. Wonderful stuff. I recommend that we officially delcare it a DoD Wonder Spooge (tm) product. -- | Dean Cookson / dcookson@mitre.org / 617 271-2714 | DoD #207 AMA #573534 | | The MITRE Corp. Burlington Rd., Bedford, Ma. 01730 | KotNML / KotB | | ""The road is my shepherd and I shall not stop"" | '92 VFR750F | | -Sam Eliott, Road Hogs MTV 1993 | '88 Bianchi Limited | ",8 "Armenian way of slaughtering a twelve-year-old Muslim girl. Source: ""World Alive, A Personal Story"" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, Inc., New York (1952). (Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 360. ""At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly, through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in- arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb."" p. 361 (fourth paragraph). ""Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair, large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun dress. The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed just below his neck, into the spine. There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead."" Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Nazi Eugenic Theories Circulated by In article <1483500351@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research writes: >PS: My proposal has nothing to do with Nazi eugenics. It has to do with >the search for peace which would enable justice. I don't consider that >justice is done, when non-Jews who fled or were expelled in 1948/1967 >are not permitted to return to their homeland. How about Jews who were expelled from their homelands in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Algeria, etc.? Don't they deserve justice, too? >This can at best be called >pragmatism, a nice word for legitimizing the rule of the strong. It can >never be called justice. Why is your criticism ALWAYS directed against Israel, but never against the Arab states, even when they are so much more guilty of the accusations you make? Is it because you now call yourself a Palestinean? >And peace without justice will never be peace. This is why the ""land-for-peace"" formula is so foolish. Land-for-land or peace-for-peace seems much more just, except that it would cost the Arabs something and so is not under consideration. Let's not forget that about half of Israel's population are refugees from Arab countries. Somehow, THEIR land now being occupied by Arab states and THEIR homes now being lived-in by Arab people are not included in any negotiations. Is this your prescription for peace? >It is my conviction that the situation in which a state, through the >law, attempts to discourage mixed marriages (as Israel does), is not >normal. Such a state resembles more Nazi Germany and South Africa than >Western democracies, such as the United States, in which Jews are free to >marry whom they wish and do so in the thousands. Again, you've somehow managed to overlook the fact that the Arab states are much more restrictive on these points. In fact, the officially Judenrein policies of almost all of the Arab states makes them resemble Nazi Germany chillingly closely. >American Jews enjoy this fact and would not love to live in a state termed >Christian State and to have their Green cards stamped with a mark JEW. There are many states in which Christians can live happily, many which have official religions and Christian majorities and Christian-based laws. There are some 2 dozen Arab and Islamic states. There is only 1 (one) Jewish state. Do you have a problem with this? Is this one Jewish state too many? There are others who might agree with you, you know. >I would ask those who are genuinely interested in an exchange of views >and personal experiencces to refrain from emotional, infantile >outbursts which might leed readers to infer that Jews who respect >Judaism are uncivilized. Such behaviour is not good for Judaism. Have you just arrived on tpm recently??? Again, the supporters of the Arab and Islamic camps are frequently and massively guilty of ""emotional, infantile outbursts"" which have weakened their positions dramatically. Somehow, your criticisms are very one-sided and simple-minded. P.S. How's the Fund coming along? -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "Re: New Encryption Algorithm In article , artmel@well.sf.ca.us (Arthur Melnick) writes: > > In order to get export approval for SECOM/NEA, it was >necessary to go through NSA and to reveal to them the details of >the program and algorithm. This was done only AFTER we had a >finished product to submit. . . . . . > With the encryption algorithm approved for export, we set Please don't be insulted, but based on this I would say that your encryption algorithm is very likely not worth the paper it's printed on. If the NSA gave export approval, that means they felt confident that they could crack it -- that's their JOB, mandated by LAW, and I'm sure they believe in what they do. If they gave export approval to an encryption algorithm which they weren't confident of being able to crack, they would be derelict in their sworn duty to monitor foreign communications for US national security related material. Just because many (most?) of us think that the government and the spooks are pugnacious slimeballs is no reason to lose sight of the fact that they do their jobs to the best of their ability, and further that said ability is rather high. I hope that one day we can make them all obsolete....... but until then, we have to cope with their existence. Export approvals are one thing they do that we can learn a lot from, for example. -- Robert Bickford /-------------------------------------\ rab@well.sf.ca.us | Don't Blame Me: I Voted Libertarian | \-------------------------------------/ ",11 "*****Twin Size Mattress/BoxSprng/Frame for SALE $75***** !-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*! Twin Size - Mattress, Box Spring and Frame for SALE. ** Medico-Pedic [type of mattress?] ** Excellent condition ** 2 yrs old ** Well maintained -- You come and pick it up, stuff is located in PaloAlto Asking for: $75 Contact: Suresh (415)-617-3522 [W] (415)-324-9553 [H] E-Mail: suresh@pa.dec.com !-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*-!-!-*-!-*! -- o o o o o o o . . . ______________________________ _____=======_||____ o _____ ||Suresh Balasubramanian | |suresh@pa.dec.com| .][__n_n_|DD[ ====_____ |Digital Equipment Corp. | | (415) 617-3522 | >(________|__|_[_________]_|____________________________|_|_________________| ",6 "Re: BATF/FBI Murders Almost Everyone in Waco Today! 4/19 In article roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes: > >Well they had over 40 days to come out with their hands up on national tv >to get the trial they deserved. Instead they chose to set fire to their >compund hours after the tanks dropped off the tear gas. This is about the third person who's parroted the FBI's line about the fires being set ""six hours after the tear gas was injected."" Suppose you want to explain to us the videotape footage shown on national TV last night in which a tank with the gas-injecting tubes is pulling its injection tubes out of the second story of a building as the building begins to belch smoke and then fire? Do tell. -joe ",16 "Re: Disillusioned Protestant Finds Christ John W. Redelfs (cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote: : : I am a Mormon. I believe in Christ, that he is alive. He raised himself : [Text deleted] : : I learned that the concept of the Holy Trinity was never taught by Jesus : Christ, that it was ""agreed to"" by a council of clergymen long after Christ : was ascended, men who had no authority to speak for him. : If Jesus never taught the concept of the Trinity, how do you deal with the following: Mat 28 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, ""All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Mat 28 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in¹ the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mat 28 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."" Also Jesus speaking: Act 1 5 For John baptized with¹ water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."" I believe that you may have overlooked some key verses, that are crucial to the Christian faith. Jim Burrill jburrill@boi.hp.com ",19 "Compositing pictures on PC? I was wondering if anyone knows of a graphics package for the PC that will do compositing of a series of pictures? What I mean by ""compositing"" is, say I have a live video clip (digitized) panning around a living room, and a computer-generated bird flying around the screen. I want to combine these two series of pictures so that everywhere where the bird frames are black, I want the living room picture to show through. Yes, I realize I can do this with a genlock, and I do own a genlock, but I want to be able to do manual compositing also. It's ok if I have to composite one frame at a time; I assumed I'd have to do that anyway. But being able to composite a series of frames would be even better. I've looked around and I haven't found a PC package that will perform this. Help, please! ",1 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr21.183307.18345@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes: >mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes: > >: God allows people to choose who and what they want to worship. >: Worship of money is one of the greatest religions in this country. > >At least I can prove that money exists. Can you say the same for your >god? I would be interested in that proof of the ""existance"" of money. Matt Freivald -------------------------------------------------------------------------- LiBORGalism: THINKING IS IRRELEVANT. INTEGRITY IS IRRELEVANT. FREE SPEECH IS IRRELEVANT. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS IRRELEVANT. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IRRELEVANT. CONSERVATIVISM IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- THESE ARE MY OPINIONS ONLY AND NOT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",18 "Powerbook-sleep-init-request Someone asked me if I there existed an init that removes the dialog ""you're gonna disconnect all apletalk users "" or something like that, when the powerbook falls asleep. He said he was sure that such a thing existed, and he thought it was freeware. Can anyone help me out with this ? BTW : Where can I get Switch-a-roo, or something of the kind, but schareware or freeware ? ",4 "Re: Monitor turning off on its own In article , gcohen@mailer.acns.fsu.edu (Gregory Cohen) wrote: > > In article <1993Apr13.142129.9491@rhrk.uni-kl.de> staudt@physik.uni-kl.de (Willi Staudt AG-Linder) writes: > >From: staudt@physik.uni-kl.de (Willi Staudt AG-Linder) > >Subject: Re: Monitor turning off on its own > >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 14:21:29 GMT > >kayc@leland.Stanford.EDU (K C Ku) writes: > >|> > >|>I have a strange problem with my Apple 13"" monitor which hopefully > >|>someone can shed some light on. > >|> > >|>I would be using my computer for 5 minutes and then the screen would > >|>go blank as if someone has switch the monitor off. After the screen > >|>went off, I would not be able to turn the monitor off even if I turn > >|>the power off and back on. I will have to let the monitor sit over > >|>night and it usually turns on, although it doesnt stay on for very > >|>long. > >|> > >|>Dooes anybody has similar experience with such a problem before? Is > >|>there some fuse in the monitor that prevents it from turning on? When > >|>I try to turn the monitor on, it seems that the monitor tries to turn > >|>on but it prevented by some mechamism. > In certain Apple 13"" RGB monitors there has been a problem with the HIGH VOLTAGE CAPASITOR. Apple knows about this problem and is replacing the cap at no cost if it falls into the bad batch that they got from their supplier. Your local repair shop should know about REPAIR EXTENSION 3L0218. ",4 "Re: Radio stations Add Boston's WEEI-590AM as the Bruins' flagship station. You probably won't pick it up anywhere outside of Boston since it's only a 5,000 watt station. The Bruins also have network stations in all 6 New England states. This could be the Bruins' last year on 'EEI which also happens to be an all-sports radio station. The problem is that the Bruins are not too happy being moved over to a different station(WMEX 1150AM) whenever there is a the same-night conflict with the NBA's Boston Celtics. This happened 28 times during the course of the regular season.(The Celtics own financially troubled WEEI). The Bruins might resurface on WHDH 850 next year. Stay tuned. -PPV Mark ",10 "Re: BATF & FBI Do Right Thing in Waco Ditto. Great post. joe.kusmierczak@mail.trincoll.edu ",16 "Re: NC vs Hunt (Marine Gay Bashing in Wilmington NC) verdict In article <1993Apr17.161720.18197@bsu-ucs> 00cmmiller@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes : >> How about the fact that you have a bunch of cops putting their lives on >> the line day in and day out who are afraid as hell of a large black guy that >> took a large amount of punishment and refused submit? Oh yeah, did you watc h >> the start of the video when King got UP out of his prone postion and charge >> the cops? Sorry, the video cuts both was when you sit and watch it start to >> finish. > >sorry, i didn't see him ""charge"" the cops. i saw him trying to get away >from people who were beating him. i guess we each see what we want to >see. >candace miller I guess your view of the video from your sofa gives you a better view than the cops involved? I guess one can see what one wants to see after all. JSL. ",18 "PS/2 Appletalk card question I have a chance to buy a used PS/2 Appletalk card to create a network with my home machines. However, the guy who has the card tells me there's a DB-9 or DB-15 (can't remember now) on the back of the card, rather than the 8-pin (or 4-pin) mini-din that I expect. This sounds more like a Thicknet ethernet card. Should there be a transciever on it, like on the Quadras? What would be a reasonable price to expect to pay for one of these cards, keeping in mind that it's Micro-Channel Architecture, which means take your best guess and double it. Email replies would be appreciated, to here or to rrr@ideas.com Thanks. [RICHR] -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 ",4 "Re: IDE vs SCSI In article <1qpu0uINNbt1@dns1.NMSU.Edu> bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes: >wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes: >Since the Mac uses ONLY SCSI-1 for hard drives YES the ""figure includes a >hundred $$$ for SCSI drivers"" This is sloppy people and DUMB. What group is this? This is not a MAC group. >Ok once again with the SCSI spec list: Why the spec list again? We are talking SCSI on a PC, not on a MAC or a UNIX box. And we are talking ISA bus, or possibly EISA or VLB. This isin't comp.periphs.SCSI. Tell me what the performance figures are with a single SCSI drive on a PC with an ISA (or EISA or VLB) bus. Theoretical performance figures are not relevant to this group or this debate. I'm sure that there are some platforms out there that can handle the 40 megs/sec of SCSI xyz wide'n'fast, but the PC isin't one of them. >If we are to continue this thread STATE CLEARLY WHICH SCSI you are talking >about SCSI-1 or SCSI-2 or SCSI over all {SCSI-1 AND SCSI-2} >IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Well maybe if the SCSI design people had their act together than maybe all PC's would have built in SCSI ports by now. ",3 "Re: ""satanic"" verses Once again, this posting has been delayed for about a week by falling between some software cracks... In article <114525@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: >As promised, here is Rafiq Zakaria's discussion of the nature of >the so-called ""satanic verses"" from which Rushdie's title has been >taken. (Rafiq Zakaria, _Muhammad and the Quran_, Penguin '91) [Here follows an introduction to the controversial incident, and an apologetic explanation purporting to show why it couldn't actually have happened. The historicity of the episode doesn't matter to what follows] I don't know whether I'm quoting Gregg or Zakaria below. Anyway, back to current affairs, >Rushdie has, by his own admission, drawn >on the version given by [the orientalist] Watt Among others; this incident is not something Rushdie or Watt or anyone else dug up from nowhere, it is a well known story, a myth if you will, known (according to Umar Khan) to ""Every Muslim school boy and girl"", and so presumably to Rushdie, and to Gibreel Farishta. >and then allowed his >imagination to run wild Yes, this is what writing fiction is all about. Rushdie was writing about a crisis of faith, and chose this myth to present it, by placing the actor ""Gibreel"" in the role of the angel whose name he took. Rushdie was not writing a history or theology book, and nowhere claims or implies that this is what actually happened. It's somewhat like stories woven around the relationship between Jesus and the reformed prostitute Mary Magdalene (another myth). Or those referring to the Arthurian mythos, or the Grail legend, or the Wandering Jew, or dozens of others. If you can stand to read the work of a blasphemer, consider Salman Rushdie's children's book ""Haroun and the Sea of Stories"" for an idea of the way a storyteller -- a specific storyteller -- works with existing story lines. >to ridicule Muhammad's integrity... No. Muhammad's [Mahound's] integrity is not really impugned in this part of the story, and there's no reason to think this was Rushdie's intent: Gibreel, as the archangel, produces the verses (divine and satanic), though he doesn't know their provenance. It is not implied (in a straight reading) that Muhammad influences them: "" *Not my voice* I'd never know such words I'm no classy speaker never was never will be but this isn't my voice it's a Voice. Mahound's eyes open wide, he's seeing some kind of vision, staring at it, oh, that's right, Gibreel remembers, me. He's seeing me. My lips moving, being moved by. What, whom? Don't know, can't say. Nevertheless, here they are, coming out of my mouth, up my throat, past my teeth: the Words. Being God's postman is no fun, yaar. Butbutbut: God isn't in this picture. God knows whose postman I've been."" It's ambiguous: is Mahound somehow manipulating Gibreel? Is it Satan? Or something else? The answer is not given. To be sure, the question is raised. This novel explores faith and the role of revelation in religion, among other things. Addressing loss of faith implicitly raises questions about the truth of revelation, but this novel proposes no answers, at least not directly. The very existence of a newsgroup named ""alt.atheism"" raises the same questions, more forcefully, and does propose some answers, which is the real relevance. If Rushdie's mild fictional exploration is ""filth and lies"", and he ""asked for what he got"", are we next on the fatwa list? (That's a rhetorical question, of course.) -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. ",0 "Re: Camping question? Sanjay Sinha, on the 12 Apr 93 00:23:19 GMT wibbled: : Thanks to everyone who posted in my previous quest for camping info.. : Another question. : Well, not strictly r.m. stuff : I am looking for a thermos/flask to keep coffee hot. I mean real : hot! Of course it must be the unbreakable type. So far, what ever : metal type I have wasted money on has not matched the vacuum/glass : type. : Any info appreciated. : Sanjay Back in my youth (ahem) the wiffy and moi purchased a gadget which heated up water from a 12V source. It was for car use but we thought we'd try it on my RD350B. It worked OK apart from one slight problem: we had to keep the revs above 7000. Any lower and the motor would die from lack of electron movement. It made for interesting cups of coffee, anyhow. We would plot routes that contained straights of over three miles so that we had sufficient time to get the water to boiling point. This is sometimes difficult in England. Good luck on your quest. -- Nick (the Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford M'Lud. ___ ___ ___ ___ {""_""} {""_""} {""_""} {""_""} Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large. ' ` ` ' ' ` ` ' Currently incarcerated at BNR, ___ ___ ___ ___ Maidenhead, The United Kingdom. |""_""| |""_""| |""_""| |""_""| npet@bnr.ca '86 BMW K100RS ""Kay"" ` ' ' ` ` ' ' ` Pres. PBWASOH(UK), BS 0002 . _ _ _ __ . / ~ ~~\ | / ~~ \ |_______| [_______| _:_ |___| ",8 "Re: Lasers for dermatologists It is not true that dermatologists gave not reached the laser age, in fact, lasers in dermatological surgery is a very new and exciting field. It probably won't be effective in tinea pedis because the laser is usually a superficial burn (to avoid any deeper damage). Limited tinea pedis can be cured albeit sometimes slowly by topical antifungals as well as systemic medication i.e. tablets. Finally, a self-diagnosis is not always reliable, lichen simplex chronicus can look like a fungal infection and requires very different treatment. gervais ",13 "Re: Copyrights There will always be a zillion lawyers who, if they get paid well enough, will sue your brains out. Gosh! Can't anyone send them off to another planet?! Well maybe, it would be better to just send Apple, Microsoft and a few others (that way we would get rid of some terrible products as well :) -- | d91-jda@nada.kth.se | Drag-n-Drop-dead | Johan Danielsson | ",5 "Re: Re-inventing Crypto Policy? An EFF Statement In article <1qna0tINNf5p@rodan.UU.NET>, avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes: |> I somehow started to doubt technical competence of the |> people who designed the system. Why on the Earth split the |> 80-bit key in 40-bit parts to keep them in escrow separately |> (having 40 bit and large volumes of data voice links produce |> it should be relatively easy to break it) when they simply |> could keep 80-bit sequences in N (N>=2) independent places |> and then XOR all the partial keys to get the actual key (N-1 |> sequences should obviously be selected randomly and Nth is the |> actual key XOR-ed with the random sequences). Without real technical details, it's hard to answer this question. But suppose they already *are* XORing the two 40-bit parts to produce only 40 bits of real key material? Maybe they're using the exportable version of RC2...? :-) PHil ",11 "Re: 2 questions about the Centris 650's RAM petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels) writes: >According to the (seen several times) postings from Dale Adams of Apple >Computer, both the 610 and the 650 require 80ns SIMMS - NOT 60 ns. Only >the Centris 800 requires 60 ns SIMMs. You're correct, except that's Quadra 800 not Centris 800. -Hades ",4 "Re: Do we need a Radiologist to read an Ultrasound? E.J. Draper writes: >If it were my wife, I would insist that a radiologist be involved in the >process. Radiologist are intensively trained in the process of >interpreting diagnostic imaging data and are aware of many things that >other physicians aren't aware of. Maybe, maybe not. A new graduate would obviously be well trained (but perhaps without sufficient experience). A radiologist trained 10 or 15 years ago who has not kept his continuing education current is a whole 'nuther matter. A OB who HAS trained in modern radiology technology is certainly more qualified than the latter and at least equal to the former. >Would you want a radiologist to >deliver your baby? If you wouldn't, then why would you want a OB/GYN to >read your ultrasound study? If the radiologist is also trained in OB/GYN, why not? John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC |Interested in high performance mobility? Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? Marietta, Ga | Send ur snail-mail address to jgd@dixie.com | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag Lee Harvey Oswald: Where are ya when we need ya? ",13 "Re: How many homosexuals are there? In article <1qmtl1$71r@gondor.sdsu.edu> cosc0000@ucssun1.sdsu.edu (Riyadh Al-ha jmoosa) writes: >kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes: >> Perhaps 1%, but most likely not more than 2%. A new study >> (discrediting Kinsey) says so. >> -- >> The views expressed herein are | Theodore A. Kaldis >> my own only. Do you seriously | kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu >> believe that a major university | {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis >> as this would hold such views??? | > > My understanding from my psycology classes is that the percentage is > more like 10-12% world wide. I would really like to know your source > for the 1-2% figure. > > Riyadh Moosa. > SDSU-Chemistry. > cosc0000@ucssun1.sdsu.edu Some survey conducted by the U.S. government and some group (I don't know which) did what they were calling on all the news shows this morning, ""The most comprehensive survey of sexuality in the past 50 years"". Not an exact quote, but you get the idea. This low percentage is merely one more in a ton of evidence disproving the 10% theory. Ryan ",18 "Re:Christian Reformed Does anyone belong to or know any facts about the Christian Reformed Church? [It's one of two major heirs to the Dutch Reformed tradition in the U.S. The other is the Reformed Church in America. The CRC is more or less a spinoff from the RCA. It was unclear to me from my reference exactly the differences between them are. --clh] ",15 "Re: Performa or LC??? In article <1993Apr20.173656.21742@tolten.puc.cl>, rcvillab@isluga.puc.cl (Rodrigo Carlos Villablanca) writes: > Hi!! > I have a question: > Which is the diference between Performa 450 and LCIII? > I want to know which is better. > If you know the specifications and the prices of this computers, can > you tell me by email to ----> rcvillab@isluga.puc.cl > I'd like to know the diference between the apple monitor('14) and the > performa monitor too. Performa 200 == Classic II Performa 400 == LC II Performa 4xx == LC III Performa 600 == well, nothing :) The Performas are made to be low-cost business solutions. The 4xx have bundled software, modems, etc. Because they have no ""retail price"" you might be able to get a steeper discount on them. Shop around. As far as the monitors go, buy 3rd party. Much cheaper. Brett ________________________________________________________________________________ ""There's nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction."" Sean O'Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert. ",4 "DLL's and RegisterClass/CreateWindow Hi all, I have a DLL in which I Register a class and create a window of that class type. Both calls require a module instance handle, hInstance. Petzold's 3.1 book says that it is best to use the module instance handle of the calling program, not the module instance handle of the DLL (page 934). I have two questions: 1) Is there a way to find out the module instance handle of a module? 2) What are the possible problems with using the instance handle of the DLL? Thanks in advance, Mike -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Smith e-mail: M.Smith@ma30.bull.com Bull HN Information Systems Inc. phone: (508) 294-2049 300 Concord Road MA30 - 815A fax: (508) 294-3807 Billerica, MA 01821 USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ",2 "Re: FUNET.FI >>>>> On 20 Apr 93 19:01:58 GMT, perry@wswiop15.win.tue.nl (Perry Egelmeers) said: Perry> NNTP-Posting-Host: wswiop15.win.tue.nl Perry> artieb@vnet.IBM.COM writes: > I saw a posting earlier that refered to FUNET.FI directory /pub/msdos >however, when I log on to FUNET.FI I cant even find the ""pub"" directory let >alone the ""msdos"" directory !!!! Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?? Perry> Perhaps you should try nic.funet.fi instead of funet.fi ??!?!? Another possibility is, that you did not give your email address as password for the anonymous account. If you that, you see following message: 230- 230-You entered an invalid/inpropable password, and are now accessing 230-restricted subset of files. Please read README for more information. 230-We have special access features, see file README 230 It was last updated Tue Apr 13 23:45:09 1993 - 9.4 days ago This can happen, if your terminal emulator does not generate the '@' character as you think (it is hard to see, since passwords are not echoed..). -- Arto V. Viitanen Internet: av@cs.uta.fi University Of Tampere, X.400: S=av;OU=cs;O=ut;ADMD=fumail;C=fi Finland ",3 "Run box w/o cover ?? B(>i am interested in getting the pulse of this group regarding B(>extended operation of my G2K 486-33V with the cover removed B(>from the enclosure. there are a # of reasons i am considering B(>this, including quick access to jumpers during complex i/o card B(>setups. B(>my concern is that without a complete enclosure to direct the B(>cooling flow of air from the fan, ""hot spots"" may develop on my B(>motherboard or elsewhere. If you have an adequate supply of air moving over the system (most offices or homes have positive ventilation) you can generally run a system without the cover for extended periods without a problem. (I'm talking about completely removing the cover - not just leaving the slots uncovered.) HOWEVER, the biggest reason you have a cover to begin with is RF sheilding. Operating a system without the full cover may create problems with other equipment such as your neighbor's TV or Ham radio station - very much a no-no in the eyes of the law. * SLMR 2.1a * Remember - They're only tools, not a way of life! -- Via DlgQWK v0.71a ",3 "Off the shelf cheap DES keyseach machine (Was: Re: Corporate acceptance of the wiretap chip) In article <16BB51156.C445585@mizzou1.missouri.edu> C445585@mizzou1.missouri.edu (John Kelsey) writes: > >strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: >> [..stuff deleted] >existence of the key-registry system seems to make possible all kinds of >possible attacks at a small fraction of the expense of trying to build (say) >a DES keysearch machine. > > As originally described, it sounded like any police / court combination >could acquire the key for a given chip. I hope that's not the case, since >it would imply a glaring hole. (How much does it cost to find *one* crooked >jodge and *one* crooked cop? Especially for a foreign intelligence agency >or organized crime boss?) However, even if more intelligent schemes are used >to allow access to the unencrypted phone conversations, there will be weak- >nesses. They may be very expensive, and very difficult. But who would >trust his/her confidential information to an encryption scheme that, for >(say) $100,000 could by cracked one time in a hundred? (DES, for all the >complaints about a 56-bit key, would probably cost several million dollars >to build a keysearch machine for.) > I can buy a DES keysearch machine off the shelf now for approx $500K, but it is not sold by that name. Go buy a circuit emulation machine (eg. Quickturn) containing a bunch of FPGAs, (say 500 to 1000 3090's), and program each to be a DES search engine. Lets say 500 chips, running at 10Mhz = 5G tests/sec. Time is 14e6 sec max = 23 weeks, 12 weeks average. Can't wait that long? Buy a bigger machine. David Lewis ",11 "Re: freely distributable public key cryptography c++ code: where? In article , grady@netcom.com (1016/2EF221) wrote: > > Victor Iseli (victori@xetron.com) wrote: > : > : > : ""Numerical Recipes in C""..Fortran..Pascal has a nice section on > : encryption and decryption based on the DES algorithm. There is > : also source code provided (I think some versions of this book are > : distributed with the source code on disk; the source code can > : also be ordered from the publisher). > : > : --Victor Iseli > : victori@xetron.com > > Yes I benchmarked the DES implementation in the Recipes in C > book.. it is about 1 1/2 orders of magnitude SLOWER than the > Outerbridge/Karn/Gillogly/et al implementation. > > It may be instructional, but it isn't very fast. It has also apparently been excised from the second edition. -- Lefty (lefty@apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:. ",11 "Re: Winning Streaks You might want to clarify the 11 game winning streak. That Pens streak is a PLAYOFF streak (tied by the Chicago Blackhawks, who had won 11 in a row until they met the Pens in the finals last year) The 18 game unbeaten, so far, is a regular season unbeaten streak. But hey, don't take it personally. I'm a Flyers fan and two in a row is a stretch. But with a healthy Lindros, Recchi, Brind'amour and Tommy Soderstrom, they'll be there next year! By the way, since the Flyers need defenseman, what kind of trade would anybody suggest from the existing Flyers roster since the scuttlebutt is that Terry Carkner won't be there next year and apart from him a piece of notebook paper would be better defense. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Weaver (properly found at AJS147@psuvm.psu.edu). Hey, at least we're not the Whalers! ",10 "Renting from Alamo Hello netters! I'm visiting the US (I'm from Sweden) in August. I will probably rent a Chevy Beretta from Alamo. I've been quoted $225 for a week/ $54 for additional days. This would include free driving distance, but not local taxes (Baltimore). They also told me all insurance thats necessary is included, but I doubt that, 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more insurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he didn't rent it from Alamo. Does anyone have some info on this? Is $225 a rip-off? Probability that I'll be needing more insurance? Is the beretta a good rental car? Thanx Markus ",7 "finding out state of state keys (eg, CapsLock and NumLock) Hi. I've looked in the FAQ and the O-Reilly books and was unable to find (an easy) means of finding out the state of state keys such as CapsLock and NumLock. I can certainly track the events inside of my window and set a boolean there, but what if CapsLock is pressed in another window? I looked at XGrabKey() and decided it was definitely NOT what I wanted to do. I could find no convenience function to tell me that information. My question is this: Is there a means of determining what the state of CapsLock and/or NumLock is? An even more pointed question: Is there an easy means of making an X keyboard act like a PC keyboard? ie, CapsLock is active, and the user presses shift-a, I'd like to get a lowercase 'a' instead of 'A'. Any input is greatly appreciated. Please respond via email. I will repost a summary of my findings. Thanks, Ralph ",5 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. [much munching and editing to get to the point] [Brett D. Sherron-Ferrell writes] >You do have an interesting point, that I won't dispute now. But, pray tell, if >you ""Know for a fact"" anything, why don't you provided some insight into your >source? Do you think that will accept it for fact. MAYBE I would if you >gave your word, even. [Mike Timbol responds] >If he says he knows for a fact, what more do you have to gain if he gives >his word? Do you think he's lying right now? While I do not think he is lying, I also feel hesitant to take anybody ""on their word"" unless they can attribute a source for thier claims. With all the FUD and misinformations and misconceptions and outright lies flying around the advocacy newsgroups, I do not trust any unsubstantiated rumor or claim - especially from any employees of IBM's OR MicroSoft, or anyone who seems to have a vested interest. Divya -- Divya ""Live long, and then DIE a slow and horrible death ...."" - What Confucius wanted to say .... ",2 "Re: 18 Israelis murdered in March In article , flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare) writes: |> In article <1993Apr5.125419.8157@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> hasan@McRCIM.McGill.EDU writes: |> In article , flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare) writes: |> |> |> In article <1993Apr3.182738.17587@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> hasan@McRCIM.McGill.EDU writes: |> |> |> In article , flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare) writes: |> |> |> |> I get the impression Hasan realized he goofed and is now |> |> |> trying to drop the thread. Let him. It might save some |> |> |> miniscule portion of his sorry face. |> |> |> Not really. since i am a logical person who likes furthering himself |> |> from any ""name calling"", i started trashing any article that contains |> |> such abuses without responding to, and sometimes not even reading articles |> |> written by those who acquired such bad habits from bad company! |> [deleted stuff] |> well , ok. let's see what Master of Wisdom, Mr. Jonas Flygare, |> wrote that can be wisdomely responded to : |> |> Are you calling names, or giving me a title? If the first, read your |> paragraph above, if not I accept the title, in order to let you get into the |> um, well, debate again. I didnot know that ""Master of wisdom"" can be ""name clling"" too, unless you consider yourself deserve-less ! |> Master of Wisdom writes in <1993Mar31.101957@frej.teknikum.uu.se>: |> |> |> [hasan] |> |> |> [flax] |> |> |> |> [hasan] |> |> |> |> |> In case you didNOT know, Palestineans were there for 18 months. |> |> |> |> and they are coming back |> |> |> |> when you agree to give Palestineans their HUMAN-RIGHTS. |> |> |> |> |> Afterall, human rights areNOT negotiable. |> |> |> |> |> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the right to one's life _also_ |> |> |> |> a 'human right'?? Or does it only apply to palestinians? |> |> |> |> No. it is EVERYBODY's right. However, when a killer kills, then he is giving |> |> |> up -willingly or unwillingly - his life's right to the society. |> |> |> the society represented by the goverment would exercise its duty by |> |> |> depriving the killer off his life's right. |> |> |> So then it's all right for Israel to kill the people who kill Israelis? |> |> The old 'eye for an eye' thinking? Funny, I thought modern legal systems |> |> were made to counter exactly that. |> |> So what do you expect me to tell you to tell you, Master of Wsidom, |> ^^^ |> ------------------------------------------------------------------ |> If you insist on giving me names/titles I did not ask for you could at |> least spell them correctly. /sigh. That was only to confuse you! (ha ha ha hey ) |> when you are intentionally neglecting the MOST important fact that |> the whole israeli presence in the occupied territories is ILLEGITIMATE, |> and hence ALL their actions, their courts, their laws are illegitimate on |> the ground of occupied territories. |> |> No, I am _not_ neglecting that, I'm merely asking you whether the existance |> of Israeli citicens in the WB or in Gaza invalidates those individuals right ^^^^^^^ are you trying to retaliate and confuse me here. |> to live, a (as you so eloquently put it) human right. We can get back to the |> question of which law should be used in the territories later. Also, you have |> not adressed my question if the israelis also have human rights. First, my above statement doesnot say that ""the existence of israeli citizens in the WB revoke their right of life"" but it says ""the israeli occupation of the WB revoke the right of life for some/most its citizens - basically revokes the right of for its military men"". Clearly, occupation is an undeclared war; during war, attacks against military targets are fully legitimate. Secondly, surely israeli have human rights, but they ask their goverment to protect it by withdrawing from the occupied terretories, not by further oppressing Palestinean human rights. |> What do you expect me to tell you, Master of Wisdom, when I did explain my |> point in the post, that you ""responded to"". The point is that since Israel |> is occupying then it is automatically depriving itself from some of its rights |> to the Occupied Palestineans, which is exactly similar the automatic |> deprivation of a killer from his right of life to the society. |> |> If a state can deprive all it's citizens of human rights by its actions, then |> tell me why _any_ human living today should have any rights at all? Because not all states are like Israel, as oppressive, as ignorant, or as tyrant. |> |> |> What kind of rights and how much would be deprived is another issue? |> |> |> The answer is to be found in a certain system such as International law, |> |> |> US law, Israeli law ,... |> |>[deleted, Jonas was throwing up-not for real so you can stick to the screen] |> |> |> It seems that the US law -represented by US State dept in this case- |> |> |> is looking to the other way around when violence occurs in occupied territories. |> |> |> Anyway, as for Hamas, then obviously they turned to the islamic system. |> |> |> And which system do you propose we use to solve the ME problem? |> |> The question is NOT which system would solve the ME problem. Why ? because |> any system can solve it. |> The laws of minister Sharon says kick Palestineans out of here (all palestine). |> |> I asked for which system should be used, that will preserve human rights for ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |> all people involved. I assumed that was obvious, but I won't repeat that |> mistake. Now that I have straightened that out, I'm eagerly awaiting your |> reply. So you agree that that an israeli solution wouldnot preserve human rights. (i am understanding this from your first statement in this paragraph). |> Joseph Weitz (administrator responsible for Jewish colonization) |> said it best when writing in his diary in 1940: |> ""Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both |> peoples together in this country.... We shall not achieve our goal |> ^^^ ^^^ |> of being an independent people with the Arabs in this small country. |> The only solution is a Palestine, at least Western Palestine (west of |> the Jordan river) without Arabs.... And there is no other way than |> to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to |> transfer all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be |> left.... Only after this transfer will the country be able to |> absorb the millions of our own brethren. There is no other way out."" |> DAVAR, 29 September, 1967 |> (""Courtesy"" of Marc Afifi) |> |> Just a question: If we are to disregard the rather obvious references to |> getting Israel out of ME one way or the other in both PLO covenant and HAMAS |> charter (that's the english translations, if you have other information I'd |> be interested to have you translate it) why should we give any credence to |> a _private_ paper even older? I'm not going to get into the question if he |> wrote the above, but it's fairly obvious all parties in the conflict have |> their share of fanatics. Guess what..? Those are not the people that will |> make any lasting peace in the region. [more deleted stuff] Exactly, you are right. I guess that the problem is that the israeli goverment is full with men like Joseph Weitz. |> ""We"" and ""our"" either refers to Zionists or Jews (i donot know which). |> |> Well, i can give you an answer, you Master of Wisdom, I will NOT suggest the |> imperialist israeli system for solving the ME problem ! |> |> I think that is fair enough . |> |> No, that is _not_ an answer, since I asked for a system that could solve |> the problem. You said any could be used, then you provided a contradiction. Above you wrote that you understood what i meant (underlined by ^ ): any system can be used to solve the conflict , but not any system would resolve it JUSTLY. |> Guess where that takes your logic? To never-never land. You are proving yourself as a "" "". First you understood what i meant, but then you claim you didnot so to claim a contradiction in my logic. Too bad for you, the Master of Wisdom. |> ""The greatest problem of Zionism is Arab children"". |> -Rabbi Shoham. |> |> Oh, and by the way, let me add that these cute quotes you put at the end are |> a real bummer, when I try giving your posts any credit. Why do you feel ashamed by things and facts that you believe in , if you were a Zionists. If you believe in Zionist codes and acts, well i feel sorry for you, because the same Rabbi Shoham had said ""Yes, Zionism is racism"". If you feel ashamed and bothered by the Zionist codes, then drop Zionism. If you are not Zionist, why are you bothered then. You should join me in condemning these racist Zionist codes and acts. Hasan |> Jonas Flygare, ",17 "Re: Faith and Dogma [reply to tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley)] >In light of what happened in Waco, I need to get something of my chest. >Faith and dogma are dangerous. Agreed. >A philosopher cannot be a Christian because a philosopher can change >his mind, whereas a Christian cannot, due to the nature of faith and >dogma present in any religion. It is hard for me to understand, but quite a few professional scientists and philosophers are theists. >Sure, religion has many good qualities. It encourages benevolence and >philanthropy. But also intolerance and superstition. I'm not sure that in the balance it is not detrimental. >Wouldn't it be nice if everyone were a secular humanist? Sure would! David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell ",0 "Any recent information on Frescoe? Does anyone know of any recent information on the Frescoe work being done by the Consortium? I've seen the short description that was published in The X Resource, but am looking for something with a bit more depth to it. ",5 "Re: Good Neighbor Political Hypocrisy Test In article steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) wri tes: >In article <1993Apr18.001338.21323@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rscharfy@magnus. acs.ohio-state.edu (Ryan C Scharfy) writes: >>>No social problem, however great, is worth destroying the freedom in America . >>>The destruction of freedom is never an answer to any social problem. >> >>You can't even walk down the street at night alone in America because of drug s. >>Freedom my ass. >> >>Ryan > >Why exactely can't you walk down the street safely? It it because somebody >will jump out from behind a shadow, and, SELL YOU DRUGS? Hardly. Or mug me. > On the >other hand, it's certainly possible that you are walking down the steet of >a bustling lawless part of your metropolitan area. Lawless and bustling: read >underground economy. Why must you pursue this fantasy that all crime is derived from ""underground economies"". > There, it may not be a very safe place to be at all. >Unless of course you're there to buy some drugs... > >I explained how the WOD is a major cause of large-scale crime in America. The >head of the Guardian Angles agrees with me: legalize drugs and watch violent ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Haaahaaaahaaaa >crimes significantly decrease. > >As for me, well, I think I'll go take a walk tonight--alone. I feel safe. I >just hope the FDA/FBI/DEA/BATF isn't back at my apartment confiscating all my >property because they found my phone number written on a phone booth that was >also used by a drug dealer. Yeah buddy, this happens all the time. Tell me, HAS IT EVERY REALLY HAPPENED TO YOU? That's what I thought. > In that sense, I don't feel safe. I'm an honest, >law-abiding citizen (drug laws included, FTM), why is it that I fear the >government more than I fear criminals? > Your foolish. >Freedom MY ass. This is NOT what the founding fathers (some of whom would be >thrown in prison under today's drug laws) had in mind. All of these problems >you come up with pale in comparison to the fact that the very fiber of our >country--the US Constitution--is being destroyed. What good would it do ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Must I ask again, what part? >even IF the WOD actually reduced crime: we just created a new class of >criminals, headed up the gang's current leader: Bill Clinton. The DEA, etc. >are private armies that answer directly to the president. They possess >advanced weapons and survailance technology. Does this sound familiar to >anybody? > >Do you support ""Mein Furher Clinton""? Hmmmmmm? You seem to have come out >against the current adminstration: why are you eager to endow it with >even MORE power? (Power of the most dangerous kind, too). > All I ask is that drugs stay illegal. I don't think it's too much to ask. Ryan ",18 "Diamond Stealth 24 giving 9.4 Winmarks? I have just installed a Diamond Stealth 24 ISA card in a '486DX2-66 system with 256K cache, and 16 megs of memory, that gets about a 126 SI 6.0 CPU Benchmark rating. Using the 1024x768x16 color driver under Windows, I am getting a Winbench Winmarks rating of only about 9.5 Million. Since I have heard that others get 15-to-16 million for this card, I assume that something is very wrong with my setup. What are some possible causes of the card slowing down like this? I ran the Qualitas ASQ diagnostic program on memory, and I noted the following memory timings on my machine: ASQ v1.30 by Qualitas SYSTEM ANALYSIS Mon Apr 19, 1993 11:43:49AM page: 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ACCESS TIMING Hex KB KB Access Speed Ratio (%) Start Start Size Time us 0 25 50 75 100 00000 0 32 396 ****************** 00800 32 32 598 ***************** 01000 64 32 157 ******************** 01800 96 32 180 ******************** 02000 128 64 157 ******************** 03000 192 32 165 ******************** 03800 224 128 156 ******************** 05800 352 96 169 ******************** 07000 448 32 153 ******************** 07800 480 32 188 ******************** 08000 512 96 158 ******************** 09800 608 32 171 ******************** 0A000 640 96 1221 ************** 0B800 736 32 1581 ************ 0C000 768 32 312 ******************* 0C800 800 96 154 ******************** 0E000 896 64 3957 * 0F000 960 64 312 ******************* Note two things on this chart: 1) The video memory appears to be many orders of magnitude slower than system memory. Are there wait states being inserted here, and what would cause that? 2) The EMS Page frame seems to be ridiculously slow, even though it is being mapped to the fast XMS memory in my system through EMM386. What's going on there? Note that my Stealth 24's video BIOS at C000-C7FF is being shadowed through the AMI BIOS. Any ideas on what might be happening here? -- Will Estes Internet: westes@netcom.com ",3 "Exchange your SegaCD for my software? If anyone would like to get rid of their SegaCD for software please get in touch. Ive got loads of SNES and Genesis/MegaDrive software Id like to trade for a SegaCD or even partially (i.e. Ill also pay some $). Let me know if you are interested. Cheers Jonathan -- ___________ |onathan Phone: +44 524 65201 x3793 Address:Department of Computing '-'________ Fax: +44 524 381707 Lancaster University E-mail: jonathan@comp.lancs.ac.uk Lancaster, Lancs., U.K. ",6 "God-shaped hole (was Re: ""Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."") In article , johnsd2@rpi.edu (Dan Johnson) writes: |> >Those who have an empty spot in the God-shaped hole in their hearts must |> >do something to ease the pain. |> |> I have heard this claim quite a few times. Does anybody here know |> who first came up with the ""God-shaped hole"" business? |> Was it Pascal, or maybe Descartes, who first used this figure of speech? I seem to have some vague recollections from reading some of their essays, but I certainly couldn't say it was one of them for sure. ---- Todd Smith tsmith@cs.stanford.edu ",15 "FTP-site for .WAV-files Hello everybody... Are there any ftp-sites with wav-files available??? Frode Kvam :-) -- _______________________________________________________________________________ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ (C) _______________________________________________________________________________ Name: Frode Kvam Univ: University of Trondheim, dept of informatics E-mail: frode@ifi.unit.no Snail-mail: Lademoens Kirkealle 8 7042 TRONDHEIM Voice: + 47 7 50 45 06 _______________________________________________________________________________ *** Beware of Programmers who carry screwdrivers. *** _______________________________________________________________________________ ",2 "Re: Remote X across TCPIP & Decnet # # Does anyone know if the following is possible, and if so how do I go about # doing it. # # I want to be able to display remote X11 applications on a VAXstation 2000 off # of an Internet node. Here is where the problem comes up, the VAXstation isn't # connected directly to the Internet but is connected via Decnet to a node that # does have a connection to the Internet. Does anyone know if it is possible to # get the display to use TCPIP from the remote Internet node down to my local # Internet node and then send it via Decnet down to the VAXstation 2000? # For the machine that is connected to the InterNet, what is it running? If it is running VMS, then if you obtain MultiNet for it, MultiNet comes with a TCP/IP to DECnet gateway for X11. Patrick L. Mahan --- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM --------- Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered - Lazarus Long a capital crime. For a first offense, that is From the Notebooks of Lazarus Long ",5 "Re: The Holocaust Revisited In article <1993Apr21.151601.14962@gozer.mv.com>, klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes: > The U.S. Government's campaign of persecution and genocide against the > Branch Davidians was a resounding success. > > Heil Clinton! Heil Reno! The Gestapo is alive and well and living in > Washington, D.C. Are you for real? People dumb enough to give their money and possessions to a guy who says he's jesus deserve all they get Anyway, he killed a few feds He's not the goddam hero here He's dead an' i'm happy!!!!! > > -- > Kevin, who agrees that David Koresh was probably a first-rate nutcase > but who firmly believes that the Bill of Rights guaranteed his > his right to be a religious fanatic and that the government is > guilty of violating his civil rights and of 1st degree murder. > > OK, which small, under-represented-in-congress religious group > are we going to persecute next and are we going to torch their > church with a rolled up copy of the Constitution? > > I think I'm going to be sick now. . . -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% John Bell %%% Dundee FC: %%% %% D.I.T. %%% League Champions:61/62 runners up: 06/07 48/49 %%% %% Dundee %%% League Cup wins :51/52 52/53 runners up: 67/68 80/81 %%% %% Scotland %%% Scottish Cup win:1910 runners up: 1925,1953,1964 %%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ",16 "for sale: lifecall system For sale: --------- One complete set of Lifecall Equipment, including the base unit, portable transmitter and pendant plus 30 days free monitering service. Description of item: ------------------- Convenient and secure to anyone: 1. whose home is being broken into 2. whose parents live alone. 3. who has children or elderly parents 4. who suffers a heart attack or stroke 5. who is temporarily or permanently disabled. 6. and more. Superior features: 1. Allows you to talk to the monitering center using the transmitter; help will be sent to you as soon as possible. 2. Allows for personal freedom and independence. Deal ---- Item is worth US$2400 in open market. Asking for $2000 or best offer. Interested please email at kmgoh@leland.stanford.edu or call at (415) 497-0663. Will send the certificate of delivery and relevant documents to you. -- ******************************************************************************* GOH KWANG MENG 116 ARROYO, WILBUR P.O.BOX 7029, STANFORD CA 94309 ",6 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In <1qid8s$ik0@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >I recently have become aware that my health insurance includes >coverage for abortion. I strongly oppose abortion for reasons of >conscience. It disturbs me deeply to know that my premiums may >be being used to pay for that which I sincerely believe is >murder. I would like to request that I be exempted from abortion >coverage with my health premiums reduced accordingly. Reduced? Abortion is a lot cheaper than pre-natal care and birth. If you wanted to pay the higher premiums that would result if everyone using their health insurance to pay for an abortion instead elected to carry to term, I'm pretty sure that your insurance carrier would be happy to take your money. -- Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet) ",18 "Re: Actix video card drivers for windows On 27 Apr 93 23:56:50 GMT Kym Burgemeister (kburg@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au) wrote: | In <1993Apr24.114156.19354@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> wongda@eecg.toronto.edu (Daniel Y.H. Wong) writes: | >I am looking for the latest drivers for the Actix graphics accelerator card. | >The driver I am currently using is version 1.21 and doesn't support more | >than 256 colors in 1024x768 mode even you have 2MB memory. | >The BBS support for Actix is unbelievable! They are still using 2400bps | >modem! It will take you hours to download the drivers, it hurts when you | >are calling long distance. Is there any ftp site that has a collection | >of video drivers for windows? | good but where are these drivers?? | >Daniel Y.H. Wong UofT:(416)978-1659 | anybody at Actix listening? Upload the dang drivers to an ftp site pleeeeeeese?! Or somebody get them by a local call and contact a ftp site for uploading. If this is not possible, I can keep them on my disk and email the at request uuencoded. Provided, that somebody sends them to me, of cource. (I live in NY:-) -- Penio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu Disclaimer: All oppinions are mine. ",2 "STOP THIS ARGUMENT! XV-3.00 is 24-bit! (was Re: Oh make up your...) STOP! STOP! STOP! STOP! This argument is getting silly! XV-3.00 now handles 24-bit images without quantizing them. All these arguments are moot, null, and void. Please stop quibbling about a now obsolete version of the program. Besides, you can now generate tons of verbiage about the new shareware licensing it uses instead ... Mike -- Mike Ressler - Infrared Photon Jockey ressler@cougar.jpl.nasa.gov ... less science by dead guys ... MS-DOS 4.01 -> MS-DOS 4.01 + Windoze -> DR-DOS 6.0 -> OS/2 2.0 -> Linux + X ... finally getting something useful done with my pet 386 ... ",1 "Question about IRQ2 and IRQ9 I have an 8-bit serial card with two ports. Each port has the option of using IRQ 2,3,4 or 5. I also have two serial ports on a multi-I/O card, and the ports can be set to IRQ 3,4,5,7 or 9. From other posts I've read, I get the impression that IRQ2 on the 8-bit card is the same as IRQ9 on the multi-I/O card. Am I right? -- Eric Dittman Texas Instruments - Component Test Facility dittman@skitzo.dseg.ti.com (214) 480-7313 Disclaimer: Not even my opinions. I found them by the side of the road. ",3 "CELLULAR ANTENNAS i need to know about the market for cellular antenna technology today... who are the main companies in the market.. how much are they selling them for? who are the contact people? what are the specs? I will mail oyou our reserach so far if youcan help us!! erini@ifp.uiuc.edu ",12 "Re: Fifth Amendment and Passwords In article <1993Apr16.113151.7648@cs.aukuni.ac.nz> pgut1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz writes: >In kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M Kadie) writes: > >looks like you can't be forced to reveal a password, if anyone can provide >a convincing legal argument to the contrary (ie an actual court case) I'd >be most interested... > This is the case in Britain, according to the head of the computer crime unit here when I interviewed him a couple of months ago. wg -- Wendy M. Grossman 9A North Avenue, Kew Founder, The Skeptic (UK) Richmond, Surrey TW9 3LZ Freelance writer +(44) (81) 948 3784 Recovering folksinger ",11 "Re: Mac X and Sun OpenWindows 3 benj@ossa.hq.nasa.gov (Benjamin Jones) writes: >I've run into a bit of a snag while trying to get Mac X up and running and would appreciate >any responses from anyone who may have seen this problem. >On my local network, I have a number of Macs, Suns and SGI machines. >I have installed MacX/MacTCP on all of the Macintoshes and can run Xclients on the SGI machines >all the live-long day. The problem is when I try to run an Xclient on any Sun, I setup >the command in MacX, then execute it. Nothing happens, I don't even get any command output. >Now, I thought it might be a routing issue, but I can run remote Xclients on the suns from my SGI >machines, as well as vice-versa. I can also run remote Xclients on SGI machines that >are NOT on my local net here, but the above problem holds true for non-local Suns as well. I tried to send this as private mail, but mail to benj@ossa.hq.nasa.gov was rejected, so here it is: Here is an extract from the README file that comes with MacX: Users of remote commands with Sun machines may find that their remote commands appear to do nothing and there is no output from the Sun machine. This is due to a feature of the Sun rexecd network daemon which quietly disconnects from requesting machines that are not known to the Sun|s network address (/etc/hosts or NIS hosts) database. To successfully use remote commands with a SunOS-based machine, there must be an entry in the network address database for the Macintosh which is running MacX. -- Stan Kerr Computing & Communications Services Office, U of Illinois/Urbana Phone: 217-333-5217 Email: stankerr@uiuc.edu ",5 "Re: Egypt call for fighting fundamentalists, objects to pro-Bosnian steps In article <1993Apr29.021345.22510@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> barrak@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Mohammed F. Hadi) writes: >In article benali@alcor.concordia.ca ( ILYESS B. BDIRA ) writes: >> >> ISLAMABAD (UPI) -- Representatives from 51 Islamic nations were >> >>considering Tuesday a request from Bosnia-Herzegovina for $260 million >> >>and weapons to fight the Bosnian Serbs. All right! Let's hope they get off their rear ends and do something because the UN clearly is content to sit on its. -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "Re: Sarchoidosis >> Hello, >>Does anybody know if sarchoidosis is a mortem desease ? >>(i.e if someone who tooke this desease can be kill >>bye this one ?) > >People have died from sarcoid, but usually it is not >fatal and is treatable. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and >geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi there I'm suffering from Sarcoidosis at present. Although it's shown as a chronic & rare tissue disorder, it is thankfully NOT life threatening. The very worsed thing that can happen to a non-treated sufferer is glaucoma. My specialists are bombarding me with Prednisolone E.C. (a cortico-steriod) and after four months at 20mg a day, it's totally done away with my enlarged lymph glands, so somethings happening for the good! Cheers Nigel ************************************************************************ * NIGEL BALLARD | INT: nigel@dataman.demon.co.uk | MEXICAN FOOD * * BOURNEMOUTH | CIS: 100015.2644 RADIO-G1HOI | GUINNESS ON TAP * * UNITED KINGDOM | AMAZING! and all down two wires | TALL SKINNY WOMEN * ************************************************************************ Two penguins are walking along an iceberg. The first penguin turns to the second penguin and says ""it looks like you are wearing a tuxedo."" The second penguin turns to the first penguin and says, ""maybe I am."" ************************************************************************ ",13 "Re: Galileo Update - 04/29/93 In article <29APR199321594919@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov>, baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes: > 2. On April 23, a cruise science Memory Readout (MRO) was performed for the > Magnetometer (MAG) instrument. Analysis indicates the data was received > properly. Am I correct in assuming that the science instruments buffer their acquired data in onboard RAM, which is then downloaded upon receipt of the MRO command? Simon Brady You don't need a lot of fancy hardware for University of Otago Virtual Reality - just a walkman and an Dunedin, New Zealand attitude ",14 "Re: Microwave/Convection Oven Forsale art@cdin-1.compu.com (Art Lekoff) writes: First $50.00 grabs it! It's a Sears Kenmore 700 Watt unit FYI. Art This unit has been sold. Thank you for your replies! There is another oven available for those still interested. My mother decided to sell her spare. Same price, $50.00 to the first taker. Her's is strictly microwave, no convection, and is in equally good condition. Same size as our's, approximately 4-5 cubic feet. Let me know! Art ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Art LeKoff | Internet: art@icdi70.compu.com | 3224 Lisa Turn | Compu$erve: 72460.2024@CompuServe.Com | Bensalem, PA 19020 | Ma Bell: 215/757-3126 ",6 "newbie This is my first time on the network, but I am very concerned with this incident in Waco. I will refrain from stating my opinions until after I have read the FAQ. Could someone tell me how to get this? I must say that I believe the Govt. was wrong in the actions that they took in this situation. Portenier icsgh339@trex.oscs.montana.edu ",16 "Price drop on C650 within NS>I am going to be getting a C650 soon, but I don;t want Apple NS>to come out with the Cyclones and the Tempest in a month NS>and have the price drop on the system I want. I have negotiated a NS>good deal with a supplier for a C650 8/80 and I would like to jump on it, NS>but, again, I don't want the price drop to smuther me. BTW, the deal NS>I have is a C650 8/80 with mouse for $2295... does anyone know of a better NS>deal? I don't know of a better deal, but would you be willing to share your deal with the rest of us. That certainly sounds like you're getting a great deal. I'd be interested in that deal too. --- . DeLuxe. 1.26b #956s . MicroFrame: The BEST in Price and Performance! . QNet3. . The PipeLine : Atlanta, GA : Echo Mail From Around The World ---- | HAL 9000 BBS: QWK-to-Usenet gateway | Four 14400 v.32bis dial-ins | | FREE Usenet mail and 200 newsgroups! | PCBoard 14.5aM * uuPCB * Kmail | | Call +1 313 663 4173 or 663 3959 +--------------------------------+ | Member of EFF, ASP, ASAD * 1500MB disk * Serving Ann Arbor since 1988 | ",4 "INDIANA JONES HINT BOOK WANTED Looking for hint book for indiana jones and the last crusade the game is for the ibm.e-mail me or call 481 3740 and ask for orion. if you don't have the hint book but know how to answer these questions plao. 1.how do you beat biff. 2.how do you open the valt door. 3.how do you knock out the security system. ",6 "Re: Goalie Mask Update In article <93289@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes: > > Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for >1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And.. if >the guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the team! >Thanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes! > Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Soderstrom plays with Philly, but he doesn't have a moulded mask. He's got the helmet and cage variety, in white. Or at least that's what he wore thirteen hours ago. -- Valerie Hammerl ""Some days I have to remind him he's not hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu Mario Lemieux."" Herb Brooks on Claude acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu Lemieux, top scorer for the Devils, but v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu known for taking dumb penalties. ",10 "CRYPTO 93 FINAL CALL ............................................................................ CRYPTO '93 - Conference Announcement & Final Call for Papers ............................................................................ The Thirteenth Annual CRYPTO Conference, sponsored by the International Association for Cryptologic Research (IACR), in cooperation with the IEEE Computer Society Technical Committee on Security and Privacy, the Computer Science Department of the University of California, Santa Barbara, and Bell-Northern Research (a subsidiary of Northern Telecom), will be held on the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara, on August 22-26, 1993. Original research papers and technical expository talks are solicited on all practical and theoretical aspects of cryptology. It is anticipated that some talks may also be presented by special invitation of the Program Committee. ------------------------- INSTRUCTIONS FOR AUTHORS: Authors are requested to send 12 copies of a detailed abstract (not a full paper) by April 26, 1993, to the Program Chair at the address given below. A limit of 10 pages of 12pt type (not counting the bibliography or the title page) is placed on all submissions. Submissions must arrive on time or be postmarked no later than April 21, 1993 and sent by airmail in order to receive consideration by the Program Committee. It is required that submissions start with a succinct statement of the problem addressed, the solution proposed, and its significance to cryptology, appropriate for a non-specialist reader. Technical development directed to the specialist should follow as needed. ------------------------- Abstracts that have been submitted to other conferences that have proceedings are NOT eligible for submission. Submissions MUST BE ANONYMOUS. This means that names and affiliations of authors should only appear on the title page of the submission; it should be possible to remove this page and send the papers to Program Committee members. A Latex style file that produces output in this format is available by email from the Program Chair. Authors will be informed of acceptance or rejection in a letter mailed on or before June 21, 1993. A compilation of all accepted abstracts will be available at the conference in the form of pre-proceedings. Authors of accepted abstracts will be allowed to submit revised versions for the pre-proceedings. A revised abstract should contain only minor changes and corrections to the originally submitted abstract. All revised abstracts must be received by the Program Chair by July 16, 1993. THE 10 PAGE LIMIT WILL BE STRICTLY ENFORCED for the pre-proceedings. Complete conference proceedings are expected to be published in Springer- Verlag's Lecture Notes in Computer Science series at a later date, pending negotiation. ------------------------- The Program Committee consists of D. Stinson (Chair, Nebraska) M. Bellare (IBM T. J. Watson) E. Biham (Technion, Israel) E. Brickell (Sandia National Labs) J. Feigenbaum (AT&T Bell Labs) R. Impagliazzo (UCSD) A. Odlyzko (AT&T Bell Labs) T. Okamoto (NTT, Japan) B. Pfitzmann (Hildesheim, Germany) R. Rueppel (R3, Switzerland) S. Vanstone (Waterloo, Canada) ------------------------- Send submissions to the Program Chair: Douglas R. Stinson, Crypto '93 Computer Science and Engineering Department 115 Ferguson Hall, University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0115 USA Telephone: (402)-472-7791 Fax: (402)-472-7767 Internet: stinson@bibd.unl.edu For other information, contact the General Chair: Paul C. Van Oorschot, Crypto '93 Bell-Northern Research (MAIL STOP 000) 3500 Carling Ave. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8E9 Canada Telephone: (613)-763-4199 Fax: (613)-763-2626 Internet: crypto93@bnr.ca ............................................................................ CRYPTO '93 - General Information (August 22 - 26, 1993) ............................................................................ THE PROGRAM: Crypto'93 is the thirteenth in a series of workshops on cryptology held at Santa Barbara, and is sponsored by the International Association for Cryptologic Research, in cooperation with the IEEE Computer Society Technical Committee on Security and Privacy, the Computer Science Department of the University of California, Santa Barbara, and Bell-Northern Research (a subsidiary of Northern Telecom). The program for the workshop will cover all aspects of cryptology. Extended abstracts of the papers presented at the conference will be distributed to all attendees at the conference, and formal proceedings will be published at a later date. In addition to the regular program of papers selected or invited by the program committee, there will be a rump session on Tuesday evening for informal presentations. Facilities will also be provided for attendees to demonstrate hardware, software and other items of cryptographic interest. If you wish to demonstrate such items, you are urged to contact the General Chair so that your needs will be attended to. The social program will include hosted cocktail parties on Sunday and Monday. In addition, there will be a beach barbecue on Wednesday evening. The price of the barbecue is included in the room and board charge, and extra tickets may be purchased. ABOUT THE CONFERENCE FACILITIES: The workshop will be held on the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara. The campus is located adjacent to the Santa Barbara airport and the Pacific Ocean. Accommodations are available in the university dormitories at relatively low cost for conference participants. Children under the age of 13 are not allowed to stay in the dormitories, so those bringing small children will need to make separate arrangements in one of several nearby hotels. More information on hotels is enclosed. Parking on campus is available at no cost to the participants. However, participants must indicate on the registration form if they desire a parking permit. TRAVEL INFORMATION: The campus is located approximately 2 miles from the Santa Barbara airport, which is served by several airlines, including American, America West, Delta, United, and US Air. Free shuttle bus service will be provided between the Santa Barbara airport and the campus on Sunday and Thursday afternoons. All major rental car agencies are also represented in Santa Barbara, and AMTRAK has rail connections to San Francisco from the north and Los Angeles from the south. Santa Barbara is approximately 100 miles north of Los Angeles airport, and 350 miles south of San Francisco. REGISTRATION: Participation is invited by interested parties, but attendance at the workshop is limited, and pre-registration is strongly advised. Late registrations, subject to a late registration fee, may be accepted if space is available, but there are NO GUARANTEES. To register, fill out the attached registration form and return to the address on the form along with payment in full before July 9, 1993. Campus accommodations will be available on a first come, first serve basis for attendees who register by July 9, 1993. The conference fees include participation in the program and all social functions, as well as membership to the IACR and a subscription to the Journal of Cryptology. The room and board charges include dormitory lodging and meals >from dinner on Sunday to lunch on Thursday. Technical sessions will run >from Monday morning to Thursday at noon. A very limited number of stipends are available to those unable to obtain funding. Applications for stipends should be sent to the General Chair before June 4, 1993. ............................................................................ CRYPTO '93 - CRYPTO '93 Registration Form ............................................................................ REGISTRATION DEADLINE: July 9, 1993 Last Name: _____________________________________________ First Name: _____________________________________________ Sex: (M)__ (F)__ Affiliation: _______________________________________________________________ Mailing Address: __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ Phone: __________________________________ FAX: ___________________________ Electronic Mail: __________________________________________________________ Payment of the conference fee entitles you to membership in the International Association for Cryptologic Research for one year at no extra charge, including a subscription to the Journal of Cryptology, published by Springer- Verlag, at no extra charge. Do you wish to be an IACR member? YES__ NO__ The conference fee also includes the conference proceedings when they become available, containing final versions of conference papers. The book of extended abstracts distributed at the conference will contain only shortened preliminary versions of these papers (maximum 10 pages). Conference fee: Regular ($280) US$ _______ Attended Eurocrypt'93, Norway ($230) _______ Full time student ($190) _______ deduct $50 if you do not wish proceedings _______ Total conference fee: US$_______ Room and Board (4 nights): Smoking ___ Non-smoking ___ Single room ($275 per person) _______ Double room ($225 per person) _______ Roommate's name: ____________________________________ Extra barbecue tickets ($20 each; one is included in room and board) _______ $40 late fee for registration after July 9; REGISTRATION NOT GUARANTEED AFTER JULY 9 _______ Total funds enclosed (U.S. dollars): US$ _______ Payment must be by check PAYABLE IN U.S. FUNDS, by money order IN U.S. FUNDS, or by U.S. BANK DRAFT, payable to: CRYPTO'93. Payment should be mailed to the General Chair: Paul C. Van Oorschot, CRYPTO'93 Bell-Northern Research (MAIL STOP 000) 3500 Carling Ave. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8E9 Canada ............................................................................ CRYPTO '93 - Hotel Information ............................................................................ For those who choose not to stay in the dormitories, the following is a partial list of hotels in the area. Those who choose to stay off campus are responsible for making their own reservations, and early reservations are advised since August is a popular season in Santa Barbara. Note that Goleta is closer to UCSB than Santa Barbara, but that a car will probably be required to travel between any hotel and the campus. All prices are subject to change; prices should be confirmed by calling the individual hotels directly. However, mention CRYPTO'93 when you are making your reservation and in several of the hotels listed you will be eligible for the university rate which can be significantly less than the normal rates. We are not able to block rooms in these hotels, so please make reservations as early as possible. The quality of the hotels range from rather expensive beach-front resorts to basic inexpensive accommodations. For further information, try contacting the Santa Barbara Convention and Visitors Center, (805)-966-9222. South Coast Inn: 5620 Calle Real, Goleta, CA 93117. Regular rates: Single $89, Double $94; call for University rates. Contact Murrill Forrester at (805)-967-3200 or toll-free at (800)-350-3614. Cathedral Oaks Lodge: 4770 Calle Real, Santa Barbara, 93110. Single rates not available, Double rates start at $84 including breakfast; no University rates. Call Tom Patton at (805)-964-3511 or toll-free at (800)-654-1965. Motel 6: 5897 Calle Real, Goleta, CA 93117. Single $33.95, Double $39.95, no University rate available. Call (505)-891-6161. The Sandman Inn: 3714 State St., Santa Barbara, CA 93105. Regular rates: Single or Double $84, $94 for king-size, University rate $65. Call Jean Ingerle at (805)-687-2468 or toll-free at (800)-350-8174. Miramar Hotel (Beachfront): 3 miles south of Santa Barbara on U.S. 101 at San Ysidro turnoff. Regular rates: $70-$135. No University rates. Call (805)-969-2203. Pepper Tree Inn: 3850 State St., Santa Barbara, CA 93105. Regular rates: $106-$112 for two people, University rates $96-$102 for two people. Call Christopher Oliphant at (805)-687-5511 or toll-free at (800)-338-0030. Encina Lodge: 220 Bath Street, Santa Barbara, CA 93105. Regular rates $106-$108 for two people, no University rates. Call Carol Wolford at (805)-682-7550 or toll-free at (800)-526-2282. Quality Suites: 5500 Hollister Ave, Santa Barbara, CA 93111 (close to campus). Regular rates: Single $125, Double $145, University rates $99 double (must mention you are attending a UCSB program). Call Michael Ensign at (805)-683-6722. Upham Hotel (bed-and-breakfast): 1404 De La Vina Road, Santa Barbara, CA 93101. University rate $85 (mention you are from Crypto). Call Sheila Donegan at (805)-962-0058. ............................................................................ -- stevew@helios.unl.edu |=| \ Fender / |=| ... smoke on the water, fire in |=| \ / |=| the sky... Smoke on the water. stevew@hoss.unl.edu |=| \/ |=| (36 bars guitar solo) Deep purple, the best ",11 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <1993Apr20.125526.23076@cs.nott.ac.uk> eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright) writes: >I guess that you are a person who dislikes contact with >people of ethnic minority. However, your argument again falls >flat on its face. You state that you, under an >anti-discrimination bill, would be forced to associate with >others [homosexuals, I assume] against your will. How do you >know that you do not associate with them now, except they may >be closeted? Would you like to change your argument to read >""forced to associate with truthfully homosexual people >against my will""? You have no proof that anyone you now know >may not be homosexual and this punches a large hole in your >argument. Is it your belief that a homosexual comes in only >one flavour (sic) and that is the camp mincing type? Prove >it. You cannot. You are quite incoherent. Perhaps YOU should be forced to associate with some people against YOUR will. I think a nice large group of skinheads in a locked basement for 12 hours will wonderfully educate you. After all, as you don't believe in Freedom Of Asscoiation, you can't complain can you. Bloody turdlet ... -- There are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of environmental disaster. Weird, eh? These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...) ",18 "Iridology - Any credence to it??? I saw a printed up flyer that stated the person was a ""licensed herbologist and iridologist"" What are your opinions? How much can you tell about a person's health by looking into their eyes? ",13 "Re: Good Neighbor Political Hypocrisy Test In article <1993Apr16.141409.25036@pmafire.inel.gov> cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.193603.14228@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rscharfy@magnus. acs.ohio-state.edu (Ryan C Scharfy) writes: >>In article steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) w ri >>tes: >> >>>Just _TRY_ to justify the War On Drugs, I _DARE_ you! >> >>A friend of mine who smoke pot every day and last Tuesday took 5 hits of acid >>is still having trouble ""aiming"" for the bowl when he takes a dump. Don't as >>me how, I just have seen the results. >> >>Boy, I really wish we we cut the drug war and have more people screwed up in >>the head. > >I'm sorry about your friend. Really. But this anecdote does nothing to >justify the ""war on drugs"". If anything, it demonstrates that the ""war"" >is a miserable failure. What it demonstrates is that people will take >drugs if they want to, legal or not. Perhaps if your friend were taking >legal, regulated drugs under a doctors supervision he might not be in the >position he's in now. > I do agree with you, in a way. The war on drugs has failed, but in my opinion, that doesn't mean we have to give up. Only change the tactics. For instance, here are how some penalties should be changed. Dealing Coke -- Death Dealing Heroin -- Death Dealing Pot -- Death Dealing Crack -- Death The list goes on and on!!!...... JUST KIDDING!!! However, on a more serious note, I do believe that we should take some money away from the foriegn operations in South America and costly border interdiction efforts. (Don't think I'm going to say, ""spend it to educate people"", because I know plenty of educated dopers). Actually, spend it on things like drug treatment programs. I saw an interesting story on 60 minutes about how the British actually prescribe and addict his ""recommended"" dosage, and try to ween him off from it, or cut the amount down to levels where it is ""acceptable"". Sounds good so far from what I heard with a decrease in cost, lower addiction rates by wiping out the dealer's markets, etc. (But that was the only thing I have heard about it.) However, legalizing it and just sticking some drugs in gas stations to be bought like cigarettes is just plain silly. Plus, I have never heard of a recommended dosage for drugs like crack, ecstasy, chrystal meth and LSD. The 60 Minute Report said it worked with ""cocaine"" cigarettes, pot and heroin. Ryan ",18 "Re: PoV Ray Related Group NEEDED >>>>> On 17 May 93 09:42:18 GMT, wlieftin@cs.vu.nl (Liefting W) said: Liefting> hed@cats.ucsc.edu (Magic Fingers) writes: >In article <1993May13.011926.4728@exucom.com> cyberman@exucom.com (Stephen R. >Phillips) writes: >If it takes making it an alt group, then why not? I've been following this >thread for, what has it been, two months now? Liefting> The alt.* hierarchie is created for 2 purposes: 1. For Liefting> groups which do not fit under the comp.* or other 'official' Liefting> hierarchies 2. For the fast creation of hot new newsgroups Liefting> like alt.gulf.war Liefting> Because there is no voting process or any other control Liefting> facilities, sites are free to decide not to carry (some of) Liefting> the alt groups. Liefting> Therefore, it is (I think) desirable to try to create Liefting> comp.graphics. {raytrace, rendering or whatever} and not an Liefting> alt-group Plus, *many* sites, (especially many .com sites) do not carry any alt newsgroups. (We don't for example.) A comp.* group will get a much broader distribution and would be useful to many more people. Plus the topic is important/popular enough to warrant its own group, IMHO. -- /**************************************************************************/ /* Kent Dalton * EMail: Kent.Dalton@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM */ /* NCR Microelectronics * Phone: (303) 223-5100 X-319 */ /* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A * FAX: (303) 226-9556 */ /* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 * */ /**************************************************************************/ Does someone from PEORIA have a SHORTER ATTENTION span than me? ",1 "Re: Another question about synthetic engi In article <1993Apr5.133542.19077@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, fist@iscp.bellcore.com (Richard Pierson) writes: |> Two years ago he went to work for CONRAIL as a mechanic. |> On the EMD and GE power units (train engines) they NEVER |> EVER change the oil, just the filters I remember seeing an artical on large-engine oil requirements, and one of the ways of prolonging the life of the oil was to run through a heated un-presurized chamber to allow water and volitiles to boil off. This made such long-term usage of oil practical. Isn't the Discovery channel great!?! --- Curt Howland ""Ace"" DoD#0663 EFF#569 howland@nsipo.nasa.gov '82 V45 Sabre Meddle not in the afairs of Wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to re-light. ",8 "Re: News that _I_ missed In article <1993May7.175730.12246@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.edu (Brad Hernlem) writes: >In article <39298@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes: >|> In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: >|> >In the NY Times, on Sunday, May 2, in an article on Somalia, a >|> >reporter writes: >|> > >|> > "" [...] But last year, Iran quietly took over four islands belonging >|> > to the United Arab Emirates and deported their people, with hardly a >|> > protest from the United States. [...]"" >|> > >|> >Does anyone know what this is referring to? I seem to have missed it. >|> >(Spiked, no doubt. :-) >|> There was something in the NYT and other sources about this for a few >|> days. It is an ongoing border disupute, and when the Iranians kicked >|> out the UAE people it was briefly reported (this was many moons ago). >|> I don't recall reading of any public US comment; if it were a strong >|> protest I probably would have seen it. >Those islands would be Abu Musa, and the Greater and Lesser Tunbs, I presume. >I don't know about a fourth. The latter two islands belong to Iran and so According to the NY Times, the 4 islands ""belong[] to the United Arab Emirates."" >could not be ""taken over"". The major row is over Abu Musa which has been >jointly administered by Iran and UAE. The dispute goes back to the early >1970's when Britain evacuated the island and Iran under the Shah reclaimed >the island which had historical ties to Iran. No British objection was >raised at that time. > >It is my understanding that UAE residents of Abu Musa are currently free to >travel to and from the island and that Iran is desiring diplomatic resolution >of the dispute. Why is it, then, that when the British, Iranians and UAE refer to Occupied Territory, they mean territory in dispute in Israel but not in their own affairs? -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "Re: The doctrine of Original Sin Eugen Bigelow writes: >It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no >argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John >10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus >that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the >OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51 >taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say >Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture. You should remember that in Adam's transgression, all men and women sinned, as Paul wrote. All of humanity cooperativley reblled against God in Adma's sin, thus, all are subject to it, and the sin is transmitted from generation to generation. Andy Byler ",15 "Re: How many israeli soldiers does it take to kill a 5 yr old child? Well,I tried not to get involved in this never ending talk,but,man,I REALLY got hot about this bullshit. In article <1993Apr13.164305.701@bernina.ethz.ch> nadeem@p.igp.ethz.ch writes: >Hakim Abu Ahmed (cu304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote: > >: in-reply-to: hm@cs.brown.edu's message >: > zbib@bnr.ca (Sam Zbib) writes: > >: > steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nick Steel) writes: >: > |> Q: How many occupying israeli soldiers (terrorists) does it >: > |> take to kill a 5 year old native child? >: > |> >: > |> A: Four >: > |> >: > |> Two fasten his arms, one shoots in the face, >: > |> and one writes up a false report. >: > |> Making stupid and idiot jokes about soliders will not bring anything (not mentioning peace or agreement). I also know several tens of jokes about arabs (palestinians) but I DO NOT post them to Usenet (Anyway,not to THIS newsgroup), since I don't think I will achieve any target but making other parts furious,and this is NOT my target. If this is your target...well...that tells a lot about you. >: >Can Nick Steel provide documentation for this alleged incident ? Did you really think he is talking about something realistic? > >: >Harry. > >: You must be kidding ,this is not a single incident >: now. This has become a daily life practice in Gazza >: if you mean the killing of children by armed soldiers. Yeah,well,sometimes,when cowards put their children and wives in the front line, so their enemy cannot do anything,well,maybe in those cases,you have no better thing to do (to save your life) than shooting. And if parents want their children alive,I think it would be better that before they get out to throw stones/molotov botlles,or when they come to kill soliders,to keep their children in the houses. >: If you are objecting the number of occupying israeli >: soldiers (terrorists) or the way they do it , then ^^^^^^^^^^^^----\/ Look in the dictionary at the word ""terrorism""! It says: (nu) the use of threats of violence,and violence esp for political purposes. It sounds more like your guys... >: I caan assure you that they do worse than that. Just as Yeah? Well,I guess you were in there,and you know it all... >: example 11 children were killed this month of Ramadhan >: two of them by military vehicules. An other similar >: incident by vehicule was the one of 25 Feb (4 Ramadhan) >: where thee military truck on purpose hit a passenger ^^^^^^^^^^---\/ Where from do you know that it was ""on purpose""? Personally,I didn't hear about this case,although I don't deny it.But how can ANYBODY,besides the person itself,can say it was ""on purpose""? >: car where the victims were a 5 year girl Safa Sail >: Bisharat >: and Saamud Riyad a 2 weeks old babygirl.( + the 23 >: oldd Raajij Rouhy) Yeah,sure.The truck driver looked in the car with his Zionist Equipment of Detecting Palestinian Children,and then he thought to himself:Hey there is a 5 year and 2 weeks girls in the car.Why won't I make an accident and kill the ""enemy""? Maximum I will die too in the crash...But what do I care?... >: -- >: Hakim. > >Actually, if can remember correctly, was it not reported and even on camera >some time during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, or when the itifada began, >that CNN caught regular uniformed Israeli soldiers breaking the arms of >some Arab youngsters in a very professional and brutal manner, (someone >please give full details if they can remember). This is one of the few Well,It was about 3 years ago ,in the Intifada (The fact that you can't remember the time prooves how much do you care about it). I DO NOT think that what the soliders did was correct. But I will not agree that they ""were breaking their arms"".I saw that film,and,unlike in the USA,it was broadcasted entirely not long ago (in a talk show) and at the end the ""arm-broken"" guys got up and walked and used their arms very good. They guy who did it was interviewed and he said he did it because the terrorist or whatever he was refused to take his orders,and spitted in his face. What ammount of truth exist in this statement I cannot tell you,because I wasn't there. But the guy who did it was in prison,if it makes you any good. >occassions on which such a scene has been transmitted to the West and >in the USA ... it caused uproar and was one of the factors that has significantly >changed the preception of the Israeli army's role in the mid-east. No,it didn't. The Israeli army is still the most important army in the midlle east.It is still the only human army(as much as an ARMY can be human).To any American who will claim the opposite,I can only remember the CNN broadcasting of the American Solider who beat a Somalian boy. It was very cruel to see.But I won't say because of this that the American army is cruel. > >So there is proof for you! It is obvious that is a systematic policy of the >Israelis which must be occurring on a massive scale behind the scenes. Some kind of proof! ""Obvious""? Where from? If you say it is behind the scenes, how do you know about it? > >Nadeem > I just wanted to show how much garbadge one can say,without knowing ANYTHING about what he says,and living a life far away from the place he talks about. _____ __Livian__ ______ ___ __Segal__ __ __ __ __ __ *\ /* | | \ \ \ | | | | \ | ***\ /*** | | |__ | /_ \ \ | | | | \ | |---O---| | | / | \ | | | | \ | \ /*\ / \___ / | \ | | | \ | | \___ / | / | \/***\/ / | \ | | | | | / | | VM/CMS: JhsegalL@Weizmann.weizmann.ac.il UNIX: Jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il ",17 "Clipper Not Good Enough for Government? There's been some discussion very recently as to whether the government once again might exempt themselves from something they use to screw us over... Well, from comp.dcom.telecom: From: lesreeves@attmail.com Subject: Odds 'n Ends in the News * The Clipper Chip device introduced yesterday by AT&T may not be suitable for government use, says House Telecom Subcommittee Chairman Markey. In a letter to Commerce Secretary Brown, Markey asked whether the use of the technology could lead to ""inadvertently increased costs to those U.S. companies hoping to serve both"" the government and private markets. Markey has ordered Brown to answer several questions about security and cost concerns by April 28. (Communications Daily, 4/20/93) -- Show me a guy who's afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -- Renee Auberjonois ",11 "IBM PC Convertible Parts 4-Sale I have some used, but working, parts available for the original IBM laptop - the PC Convertible. If you have one of these things, and still are using it, you may have found out that IBM wants OUTRAGEOUS prices for parts. I built up a supply of enough parts to keep mine going for a few years, and will be willing to part with the rest. Basically, I have all the standard parts EXCEPT: Motherboard Battery Power Supply I've got a few of the accessories, too - just ask. These are in very limited supply, however. I've basically just cannibalized a couple of old machines. If you are interested, please e-mail me. Note: For those who want to convince themselves that they are somehow superior because they have newer and better machines, or who want to inform me that these are ""worthless junk,"" save your effort. I'll just delete the note. Those of us who bought these machines when they first came out still find them useful for word processing, etc.. I'm saving mine as a future antique. ",3 "Re: WFAN No, he's not nuts, WIP is second to none THE sports station. They don't have Tony Bruno working ESPN radio and Al Morganti doing Friday Night Hockey because they suck. I live in Richmond Va, but I visit Phila often, and on the way I get WTEM Washington) and WIP. I hear the FAN at night wherever I go (the signal used to be WNBC, when they played golden oldies) because you can't avoid it. Of those three, WIP has the best hosts hands down. Chuck Cooperstein isn't a homer, and neither is Jody Mac. WTEM is too generic to be placed in the catergory. In fact if you have heard WTEM and the FAN you notice the theme music is identical...same ownership?? I think so! WIP is totally original. Their hosts actually have a personality (this is a knock at TEM (the TEAM) not the FAN because Mike and the Mad Dog and Sommers are good) I mean comparing the morning guys in Philadelphia to the ones in Washington is a total joke. Anyway, I like the FAN and WIP, but I think the edge goes to 'IP. When I get back from Philly, I go into withdraw cause Richmond has nada except the national sports line (and those guys are totally clueless) I was really mad when WCAU was cancelled because they had Steve Fredericks doing sports phone after the Phillies games. (WCAU is another strong station, now it's an oldies station, but they still have the Phillies) I started listening to the FAN because I heard he went there. I finally heard him last summer and he wasn't the same guy. Those NY fans got to him. I was glad to hear him back in Philly when I went to see a few Eagles games. I will admit, I am die hard EAGLES fan and WIP is basically an Eagles station 365 days a year. BUT, I bet you the Phillies are in control right now. About the knock on G. Cobb, I like him. He knows the Eagles like a book. I remember the weekend before they went to play San Fran, (when everyone thought the Eagles would be blown away) Cobb said that the Eagles usually play their best when no one believe they can win. Well they were inches shy of pulling the victory. Well that's my $.02 ",9 "looking for info on kemotherapy(sp?) Hello, a friend is under going kemotherapy(sp?) for breast cancer. I'm trying to learn what I can about it. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. ",13 "Re: What happens if you completely flatten your PB's battery? In article swiers@chaos.aqeng.cdc.com (Aaron Swiers) writes: > schuyler@netcom.com (Gabriel M. Schuyler) writes: > >stanger@otago.ac.nz (Nigel Stanger) writes: > >>Can running a PowerBook's battery completely flat have any > >>detrimental side effects (other than the PB not going :) I ask, > > > >Only two things I can think of. > >1. Although NiCad (145,145,160,165c,170,180) batteries should be completely > > discharged about once a month, LeadAcid batteries (100) shouldn't ever be > > completely discharged (well, maybe ONCE in a while is OKAY). > > > This is a very common mis-conception dealing with Ni-cad batteries. It is > a good idea to completely discharge a ni-cad CELL periodically. It is > NOT a good idea to completely discharge a ni-cad BATTERY. The difference > being that a cell is only one cell (nicad puts out 1.2 volts) like a > rechargeable AAA, AA, C, or D. A battery is defined as more than one > cell (9 volt, or 7.2 for nicad equivalent). Due to differences in the > individual cells of a battery, complete discharge can actually harm > a nicad battery more than help it overcome the ""memory effect"". The > most common problem is that over time an individual cell can develop > internal shorts, which will weaken other cells that are connected to > it, thus reducing the lifespan of your battery pack. > etc.... Okay, naive question: How does one discharge a cell without discharging the entire battery? ",4 "Tektronix Equipment: Color Terminal, Printer, Rasterizer & Supplies For Sale: Tektronix 4208 Color Terminal Tektronix 4510A Rasterizer Tektronix 4692 InkJet Printer Tektronix 4692 Printer Extras (all Tektronix products): Paper (> 3 boxes) Transparencies (> 2 boxes) Maintenance Cartridges (2 cart) Magenta Ink Cartridge (1 cart) We would like to sell as a single lot, and preference will be given to offers for the entire list. All offers accepted, best offer gets the equipment. -- Bob ____________________________________________________________________ Robert D. Worsham (Bob) | email: worsham@aer.com Atmospheric & Environmental Research Inc. | voice: (617) 547-6207 840 Memorial Drive | fax: (617) 661-6479 Cambridge MA 02139 USA ",6 "Re: HBP? BB? BIG-CAT? kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes: >And finally, I'd like to point out that many high OBP guys draw >their walks more because pitchers are afraid to throw a strike >to them, than because they have a great ""eye"" This comes up periodically, and I just don't get it. Take, for example, Mark McGwire. He walked 90 times in 1993. If that's not a potential great example of what you're talking about then I don't know what is. Now let's look at what happens when McGwire doesn't walk: 75% of the time he made an out. 10% of the time he hit a single. 5% of the time he hit a double. 10% of the time he hit a homer. Now, you're pitching against McGwire. Would you trade 20 walks for 2 homers, 1 double, 2 singles, and 15 outs? I would. Why give him the base when you can get him out 3 times out of 4? Then there are guys like Alex Cole, who has a career .363 OBP even though he's never had a batting average over .300 (he did hit .300 in 227 AB in 1990) or hit a single home run. Yep, that's right, he's *never* hit a homer in 916 AB's through the end of 1992. Who'd be afraid to throw a strike to him? Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com I've never been prejudiced by sex! Entertained, yes, but never prejudiced! - Justice Dan Snow (Walter Matthau) ",9 "Re: Temper tantrums from the 1960's In article <15413@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: >What they broke in the DNC for is still open to serious question. Some tape archivists suggest what they were after had something to do with the Kennedy assasination. Let's hear all of the tapes real soon, shall we? MPA ",18 "Re: comparing saabs & bmw's edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) writes: > > BMW's **SUCK** in the snow. I have aggressive snows, plus a hundred > pounds of sand in the back, and I still try to avoid driving in the snow. > I happily took the SAAB through blizzard conditions without a worry. > I would say this is the single design flaw in the BMW. For a reasonable sum, you can get a BMW with traction control: a torque-sensing (limited slip) rear differential. Since no FWD car, including the Saab, has this kind of front differential, since it would exacerbate torque steer, a BMW with traction control should have the theoretical advantage on snow. Of course weight distribution and skinny tires could affect this... ",7 "Re: Burden of Proof In article frittsbc@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Brian Fritts) writes: > I saw one theist on this net talking about the absurdity of one saying he >doesn't believe in god, and how can we be sure. The problem with this and >other arguments assumes that the burden of proof lies with the atheist. Wrong! >In philosophy the one who is making a positive argument must give reasons for >his believing so, not the negative. If I were to make the statement elves >exist, then it would be up to me to prove my positive assertion, not the >person saying that elves don't exist. If the negative in this case had to >prove elves don't exist he would have to omniscient and know every inch of the >universe. The same applies with god. Give me your reasons, and you (the theist) make the case. I think you have are addressing the wrong issue. The situation is more like: we both see some elves. This is established as fact since we can both touch them etc. Then one of us says, the elves have always been with us. The other says, no no there was a time before elves were here. Which is the positive argument? -- ________ Lionel Tun, lionel@cs.city.ac.uk ________ / /_ __/\ Computer Vision Group /\ \__ _\ /___/_/_/\/ City University, London EC1V 0HB \ \___\_\_\ \___\_\_\/ 071-477 8000 ext 3889 \/___/_/_/ ",19 "Re: Ranger vs. S-10 opinions If your buying a compact pickup do yourself a favor and wait a few months for the 1994 GMC sonoma. Magazines are saying it is day and night over the current truck. It's georgeous, solid, and fast (200hp Vortec 4.3 V-6). Should whip the Ranger in every area too (accept maybe payload). And always pick a GMC over a Chevy. GMC's are always so much better looking. Man, I miss the Comanche. Marty and Matt Owings '87 250 ninja type rider dudes ""It's a feeling that we all wanna know and it's an obsession to some to keep the world in you rearview mirror while you try to run down the sun"" ""Wheels"" by Rhestless Heart. ",7 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In <23APR199314304189@rigel.tamu.edu> mst4298@rigel.tamu.edu writes: > In article <93112.153005MGB@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, writes... > >From A.P. : According to numerous accounts by those in the compound, > >the fire was started by an armoured vehicle crushing a large propane > >tank, and turning over numerous gas lanterns. > > If there was a large propane tank, and it was breached, don't > you think that there would be an identifiable explosion? There was at least one blast consistent with petroleum products that I saw, however propane is interesting stuff. It doesn't explode on contact with air. It is *possible* for a tank to rupture without exploding. Far more likely, however, is that the compound was equipped with NG outlets running to the tank. Damage from the CEV's could have ruptured the gas lines, allowing the gas to spread, unnoticed in the CS fumes and general excitement (propane typically has a distinctive odor added to it for just this reason -- to smell leaks), until reaching a flame or spark, and then Whooosh! Fire everywhere, and maybe an explosion. Use of NG is pretty common in Texas, especially semi-rural areas. > Further, the BD members have as much reason to lie as the > Gov't. This is true, but so far the FBI/BATF track record on this incident is very bad. > >I find it tremendously chilling that so many people seem willing to accept > >the governments story, despite much evidence to the contrary. > > The only evidence that exists right now (at least what we know > about) is various claims and counter claims. I'm waiting until > the hard evidence is released. What about you? I think it would have disarmed many people if the FBI followed this same policy. They have not. They are making claims without evidence, and what evidence we have so far tends to refute their story. semper fi, Jammer Jim Miller Texas A&M University '89 and '91 ________________________________________________________________________________ I don't speak for UH, which is too bad, because they could use the help. ""Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."" ""Power finds its way to those who take a stand. Stand up, Ordinary Man."" ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph ",16 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism In article <1r4dglINNkv2@ctron-news.ctron.com>, king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes: |> |> |> kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren Vonroeschlaub) writes: |> |> |> |> > Neither I, nor Webster's has ever heard of Francis Hitchings. Who is he? |> >Please do not answer with ""A well known evolutionist"" or some other such |> >informationless phrase. |> |> He is a paleontologist and author of ""The Neck of the Giraffe"". The |> quote was taken from pg. 103. |> |> Jack For your information, I checked the Library of Congress catalog, and they list the following books by Francis Hitching: Earth Magic The Neck of the Giraffe, or Where Darwin Went Wrong Pendulum: the Psi Connection The World Atlas of Mysteries -- Tom Scharle |scharle@irishmvs Room G003 Computing Center |scharle@lukasiewicz.cc.nd.edu University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 46556-0539 USA ",0 "Store/Post events store and reply of mouse and keyboard events -------------------------------------------- To produce regression tests or automatic demo's we would like to store all mouse and keyboard events produced by a user. It should be possible to filter the mouse and keyboard events from the server's queue an to store them in a file. This sequence of events, stored in a file, should be given to the server's queue as if a user is working. 1. Exists a tool that is capable to save and reply all mouse and keyboard events (where)? 2. Where one can catch these events to store them ? In our case the server's queue is on a X Terminal (HP). Where can we catch all events coming from a given server. If this is not possible, can we catch all events given to a certain client and how ? 3. Where one can send a stored sequence of events to simulate a user ? Is there a central dispatcher on the clients machine who manages all incoming events from a given server and how can we reach it ? Thanks in advance Ron. ",5 "Re: Dorothy Denning opposes Clipper, Capstone wiretap chips The *security* of the system does depend only on the secrecy of the keys. The ability to tap is an inherent *insecurity* which depends fundamentally on the secrecy of the algorithm. To spell it out, because so many people seem to miss the point, if the algorithm were published, anyone could create a chip which would work correctly with the Skipjack chips but which would not have its key registered. I believe there is no technical means of ensuring key escrow without the government maintaining a secret of some kind. For example, the secret could be the private keys of the escrow agencies; their digital signatures would be required before a key could be used. In this case, the NSA/NIST/whoever has decided that protecting the entire algorithm is easier/cheaper/more secure than other possible protocols. -- Kian-Tat Lim (ktl@wag.caltech.edu, GEnie: K.LIM1) Materials & Molecular Simulation Center, Caltech Henry Spencer left-of-|, Margaret ""*"" Puckette signature fan ",11 "Re: Re-Alignnment, Expansion In article andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott) writes: >In article <1993Apr2.175946.7727@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> nixdorf@etre (Eric Nixdorf) writes: >> >> Looking at the way the divisions were re-aligned, there are six teams each >>in the Central (Norris) and Pacific (Smyth) divisions, while there are seven >>teams each in the Northeast (Adams) and Atlantic (Patrick) divisions. The >>thought occurs to me that inherent in the realignment is expansion of one team >>in the Central division and one team in the Pacific division, although I've >>seen nothing published that indicates that. > >Actually, when the NHL expansion committee was formed a couple of years back >(before the Ottawa and Tampa Bay expansion), John Zeigler stated at the time >that it was the NHL's expansion plan to grow to 28 teams (7 per division) by >the turn of the century. > >-- >Andrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com >HP IDACOM Telecom Division | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253 > >During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old... Last night during a Sharks' broadcast, Commissioner Bettman was interviewed during the first intermission. He made no bones about it, the expansion to 28 is on permanent hold until he is satisfied that the current allotment of 26 are fully stable. This means that cities looking for a club in the foreseeable future will have to wait until one team in some location fails or looks to relocate. This is good, IMO. There's no sense in expanding if it only means more failing franchises are in the mold. -Tom Galvin galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil ",10 "Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Athei In article <1993Apr19.151120.14068@abo.fi> MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka) writes: >In <930419.125145.9O3.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew writes: >> I wonder if Noam Chomsky is reading this? > > I could be wrong, but is he actually talking about outright >_government_ control of the media, aka censorship? > > If he doesn't, any quick one-stop-shopping reference to his works >that'll tell me, in short, what he _does_ argue for? ""Manufacturing Consent,"" a film about the media. You alternative movie source may have this; or to book it in your local alternative theatre, contact: FILMS TRANSIT * INTERNATIONAL SALES Jan Rofekamp 402 Notre Dame E. Montreal, Quebec Canada H2Y 1C8 Tel (514) 844-3358 * Fax (514) 844-7298 Telex 5560074 Filmtransmtl (US readers: call Zeitgeist Films at 212 274 1989.) -s -- Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu ""Take this cross and garlic; here's a Mezuzah if he's Jewish; a page of the Koran if he's a Muslim; and if he's a Zen Buddhist, you're on your own."" Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to lpf@uunet.uu.net ",0 "New applications of electronics I'm looking for brief information on new applications of electronics (or new electronics in applications.) If you know of any interesting new stuff, I would be intrested in hearing about it. Thanks, MJH ",12 "Re: A KIND and LOVING God!! In article , pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: |> |> So, do you adhere to the Ten Commandments? |> Jesus did and so do I. Peace be with you, Malcolm Lee :) ",19 "Re: Happy Easter! In article <1993Apr15.071740.17850@hasler.ascom.ch> kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch writes: >BA were trying to sell RR to BMW - even tested a BMW V16 in a Corniche!! I >think it will remain British for the time being - until BA get hard up >anyway! Rolls-Royce owned by a non-British firm? Ye Gods, that would be the end of civilization as we know it. -- Jonathan E. Quist jeq@lachman.com Lachman Technology, Incorporated DoD #094, KotPP, KotCF '71 CL450-K4 ""Gleep"" Naperville, IL __ There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet, \/ followed by the words ""Daddy! Yay!"" ",8 "ati GUP and Vpic Could someone tell me if the ATI graphic ultra pro is supported in a version of vpic now. If so where is it located. thanks Robert email replies would be appreciated :-) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Robert Merlicek CBR600 from Hell = = robert@ctpm.uq.oz.au Engage Ludicrous Speed = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",3 "Commercial point of view Original to: szabo@techbook.com G'day szabo@techbook.com 29 Mar 93 07:28, szabo@techbook.com wrote to All: sc> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo), via Kralizec 3:713/602 sc> Here are some longer-term markets to consider: Here are some more: * Terrestrial illumination from orbiting mirrors. * World enviroment and disaster monitering system. (the Japanese have already developed a plan for this, called WEDOS) Although this may be more of a ""public good"". * Space tourism. * Energy relay satellites ta Ralph --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: VULCAN'S WORLD - Sydney Australia (02) 635-6797 3:713/6 (3:713/635) ",14 "Re: Benjamin Franklin In article <1993Apr27.041349.22687@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes: >Hamaza, you racist, Arun cited evidence to show that your so-called >racist prophecy was a 1934 forgery. That means that the ""prophecy"" >does not exist. Address the sources, if you actually care about >truth, rather than spreading lies, bigotry, and hatred. Ofranko. Coming from a self-exposed historical revisionist, a self-admitted anti-Muslim and a genocide apologist, Hamaza should take your drivel as a compliment. Furthermore, you even deny the obvious. There was a genocide of the Muslims carried out by order of the fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government. Massacres of Muslims must be studied in detail, because they are the first modern example of the horrible crime of genocide. Blame must be apportioned to the Armenians and their supporters for the murder of Muslims. The Turkish historic homeland, emptied of its native population until today, remains occupied by the x-Soviet Armenian Government. Today, x-Soviet Armenia covers up the genocide perpetrated by its predecessors and is therefore an accessory to this crime against humanity. x-Soviet Armenia must pay for its crime of genocide against the Muslims by admitting to the crime and making reparations to the Turks and Kurds. The following are the Jewish and Armenian sources on the cold-blooded genocide perpetrated by the x-Soviet Armenian Government against 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914 and 1920. Still denying the obvious? Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies in 1914, ""History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."" (London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316. ""In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during the next two days."" ""Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions, Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims. Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common soldiers began deserting in droves."" ""With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks, Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of expected arrival of the invading Russian armies."" Source: Stanford J. Shaw, ""History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,"" Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317. ""...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response: 'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new free life under the protection of Russia.'[155] Armenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made to strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg confident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul."" [155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, ""Road to Independence,"" p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083. ""Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]"" [156] Hovannisian, ""Road to Independence,"" pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1, pp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, ""Caucasian Battlefields,"" Cambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, ""Harb Hahralaram,"" 2 vols., Ankara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos. 46942 and 22083. ""An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"" [162] Hovannisian, ""Road to Independence,"" p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and 58350. [163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; Babi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, ""Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,"" Zilkade 1333/10 September 1915. Source: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13. ""The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem. Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897, however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000 inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia."" (See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of Transcaucasia). In 1920, '0' percent Turk. ""We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the scattered bones of the dead."" Ohanus Appressian ""Men Are Like That"" p. 202. ""An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."" (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990) 1.""Men Are Like That"" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 1926 Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and published by a member of American ""Near East Relief Organization."" Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities against the Turkish people in Armenia. 2.""Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22"" by A. Rawlinson, Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925 Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer. 3.""World Alive, A Personal Story"" by Robert Dunn, Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952 Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American Officer. 4.""From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne"" by Avetis Aharonian, The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 (Spring 1964) Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Manual Shift Bigots In a previous article, dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) says: >In article <1993Apr21.100149.1501@rtsg.mot.com>, kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes: >|> As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while >|> here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering..... > >In many of our cities, there are traffic signals every 100 feet (unsynchronised, >of course (well here in Ottawa anyway)) and the roads are so congested that >shifting manually is a real pain in the left foot. Also, most Canadians are >too stupid to learn how to shift manually (gee, I gotta co-ordinate my two >feet on the clutch, brake _and_ accelerator, and I gotta steer, shift _and_ >operate the signals (optional) and radio with my two hands... duh... it [i agree wholeheartedly!!] >can't be done). Also, most North American made cars come with the automatic >as standard equipment, so why bother with a manual when the car can shift >for you for no addition money. not sure about there in CA, but here in US, the manuals are quite often the standard equipment. Of course, FINDING a car with one might be hard, but if you read the sticker on the window, there is usally an additional 2k or so tacked on for that lousy tranny. So you actually ARE paying more, just that it's sometimes hard to find one that is equipped ""standard"". (this applies to MOST cars, but not to the luxoyachts..eg caddilac, licolns, etc..) DREW ",7 "Re: Is car saftey important? In article <1993Apr20.163527.12773@bnr.ca> tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes: > I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New >Car Guide. What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended' >under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a >driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed >in a front end collision. The most highly recommended small >car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small >cars listed. There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles >where you wouldn't survive an accident. Is it only me, or is >safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car? > IMHO the best way to reduce risk when operating a vehicle is being able to avoid hazards and, for that reason my preferred vehicle is a motorcycle. When I do use a four wheeler my primary reasons are: it will keep me dry, it will keep me warm, or it will carry more cargo. If the four wheeler has as much collision protection as the average motorcycle, then it has enough form me. How do you define safe? One definition of safe is without risk. Is -- Chas DoD #7769 ""Oh, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"" - Firesign Theatre ",7 "Re: Bay area media (Wings-Leafs coverage) In article dreier@durban.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier) writes: >The San Francisco Bay area media is reporting tonight that the Detroit >Red Wings beat the Toronto Maple Leafs 6-3. Can someone who is not >part of the media conspiracy against the Leafs tell me how the game >really went (I am expecting a 4-0 win for the Leafs, shutout for >Potvin, hat trick for Andreychuk and a goal and 3 assists for >Gilmour). If the Leafs really lost, how many penalties did whichever >biased ref was at the game have to call against the Leafs to let the >Red Wings win? > >Thank you very much. >-- >Roland Dreier dreier@math.berkeley.edu Sorry to disappoint you but the Red Wings earned the victory...easily. I watched most of the game on ESPN (as soon as I realized that they were televising the game which was at the beginning of the second). The Maple Leafs were flat. Very flat. Meanwhile, the Red Wings were skating very freely and dictating the pace of the game. I didn't detect any bad penalty calls (Van Hellemond did his usual good job). Toronto looked like how I expected them to for their first playoff game in a few years -- nervous. For the Leafs sake, I hope they can rid themselves of the butterflies for game 2. If game 1 is indicative of the series, it's gonna go quick. -Tom Galvin galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil ",10 "Analysis of Second Amendment (Was: Re: Some more about gun control...) In article <1993Apr21.042608.26086@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes: >First, I would like to say how much I appreciate having so literate and >erudite an individual as Mr. Rutledge with whom to discuss this topic. >Frankly, most anti-RKBA posters refuse even to approach the topic of >the original understanding of the Bill of Rights as detailed in the >writings of the era. This is most refreshing. > >Second, I must apologize for leaving the discussion for several days. >My brigade's quarterly drill was this weekend and I needed to attend >to several matters pertaining to the State Militia. > >Some people seem to feel that the concept of the Militia is an anachro- >nism that is out of place in the 20th century. I'm not sure the Swiss >would agree and I think perhaps a discussion of how the Militia, both >organized and unorganized, fits into the defense plans of my State, >Mississippi. Please do not assume that this describes something peculiar >to one southern state. For instance, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts >has a well organized Militia which, members report, maintains stocks >of both riot guns and machine guns. The laws of other States will vary >but are probably similar. It appears it is time that this article (originally posted by Larry Cipriani last year, and which I saved) gets posted again. It offers as good an analysis of the meaning of the Second Amendment, especially regarding the militia clause, as I have seen. I have not seen any rebuttles with similar bone fides... Enjoy. (Flames to /dev/null) --------- Begin Enclosed Article ----------- THE UNABRIDGED SECOND AMENDMENT by J. Neil Schulman If you wanted to know all about the Big Bang, you'd ring up Carl Sagan, right ? And if you wanted to know about desert warfare, the man to call would be Norman Schwarzkopf, no question about it. But who would you call if you wanted the top expert on American usage, to tell you the meaning of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution ? That was the question I asked A.C. Brocki, editorial coordinator of the Los Angeles Unified School District and formerly senior editor at Houghton Mifflin Publishers -- who himself had been recommended to me as the foremost expert on English usage in the Los Angeles school system. Mr. Brocki told me to get in touch with Roy Copperud, a retired professor journalism at the University of Southern California and the author of ""American Usage and Style: The Consensus."" A little research lent support to Brocki's opinion of Professor Copperud's expertise. Roy Copperud was a newspaper writer on major dailies for over three decades before embarking on a a distinguished 17-year career teaching journalism at USC. Since 1952, Copperud has been writing a column dealing with the professional aspects of journalism for ""Editor and Publisher"", a weekly magazine focusing on the journalism field. He's on the usage panel of the American Heritage Dictionary, and Merriam Webster's Usage Dictionary frequently cites him as an expert. Copperud's fifth book on usage, ""American Usage and Style: The Consensus,"" has been in continuous print from Van Nostrand Reinhold since 1981, and is the winner of the Association of American Publisher's Humanities Award. That sounds like an expert to me. After a brief telephone call to Professor Copperud in which I introduced myself but did not give him any indication of why I was interested, I sent the following letter: ""I am writing you to ask you for your professional opinion as an expert in English usage, to analyze the text of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, and extract the intent from the text. ""The text of the Second Amendment is, 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.' ""The debate over this amendment has been whether the first part of the sentence, 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State', is a restrictive clause or a subordinate clause, with respect to the independent clause containing the subject of the sentence, 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.' ""I would request that your analysis of this sentence not take into consideration issues of political impact or public policy, but be restricted entirely to a linguistic analysis of its meaning and intent. Further, since your professional analysis will likely become part of litigation regarding the consequences of the Second Amendment, I ask that whatever analysis you make be a professional opinion that you would be willing to stand behind with your reputation, and even be willing to testify under oath to support, if necessary."" My letter framed several questions about the test of the Second Amendment, then concluded: ""I realize that I am asking you to take on a major responsibility and task with this letter. I am doing so because, as a citizen, I believe it is vitally important to extract the actual meaning of the Second Amendment. While I ask that your analysis not be affected by the political importance of its results, I ask that you do this because of that importance."" After several more letters and phone calls, in which we discussed terms for his doing such an analysis, but in which we never discussed either of our opinions regarding the Second Amendment, gun control, or any other political subject, Professor Copperud sent me the follow analysis (into which I have inserted my questions for the sake of clarity): [Copperud:] ""The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb 'shall'). The to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for maintaining a militia. ""In reply to your numbered questions: [Schulman:] ""(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?"" [Copperud:] ""(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people."" [Schulman:] ""(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right 'shall not be infringed'?"" [Copperud:] ""(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia."" [Schulman:] ""(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed' null and void?"" [Copperud:] ""(3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as a requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence."" [Schulman:] ""(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place conditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?"" [Copperud:] ""(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia."" [Schulman:] ""(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated militia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,' 'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?"" [Copperud:] ""(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior authority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military."" [Schulman:] ""(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200 years ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated."" [Copperud:] ""To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: ""Since a well-regulated militia is necessary tot he security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.' [Schulman:] ""As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence, ""A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.' ""My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be, ""(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?; and ""(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people to keep and read Books' _only_ to 'a well-educated electorate' -- for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?"" [Copperud:] ""(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure. ""(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation."" Professor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his cover letter: ""With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative efforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach any conclusion."" So now we have been told by one of the top experts on American usage what many knew all along: the Constitution of the United States unconditionally protects the people's right to keep and bear arms, forbidding all governments formed under the Constitution from abridging that right. As I write this, the attempted coup against constitutional government in the Soviet Union has failed, apparently because the will of the people in that part of the world to be free from capricious tyranny is stronger than the old guard's desire to maintain a monopoly on dictatorial power. And here in the United States, elected lawmakers, judges, and appointed officials who are pledged to defend the Constitution of the United States ignore, marginalize, or prevaricate about the Second Amendment routinely. American citizens are put in American prisons for carrying arms, owning arms of forbidden sorts, or failing to satisfy bureaucratic requirements regarding the owning and carrying of firearms -- all of which is an abridgement of the unconditional right of the people to keep and bear arms, guaranteed by the Constitution. And even the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), staunch defender of the rest of the Bill of Rights, stands by and does nothing. it seems it is up to those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms to preserve that right. no one else will. No one else can. Will we beg our elected representatives not to take away our rights, and continue regarding them as representing us if they do? Will we continue obeying judges who decide that the Second Amendment doesn't mean what it says it means but means whatever they say it means in their Orwellian doublespeak ? Or will be simply keep and bear the arms of our choice, as the Constitution of the United States promises us we can, and pledge that we will defend that promise with our lives, our fortuned, and our sacred honor ? (C) 1991 by The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation. Informational reproduction of the entire article is hereby authorized provided the author, The New Gun Week and Second Amendment Foundation are credited. All other rights reserved. About the Author J. Neil Schulman is the award-winning author of novels endorsed by Anthony Burgess and Nobel-economist Milton Friedman, and writer of the CBS ""Twilight Zone"" episode in which a time-traveling historian prevents the JFK assassination. He's also the founder and president of SoftServ Publishing, the first publishing company to distribute ""paperless books"" via personal computers and modems. Most recently, Schulman has founded the Committee to Enforce the Second Amendment (CESA), through which he intends to see the individual's right to keep and bear arms recognized as a constitutional protection equal to those afforded in the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and Fourteenth amendments. J. Neil Schulman may be reached through: The SoftServ Paperless Bookstore, 24-hour bbs: 213-827-3160 (up to 9600 baud). Mail address: PO Box 94, Long Beach, CA 90801-0094. GEnie address: SOFTSERV --------- End Enclosed Article ------------- -- pat@rwing.uucp [Without prejudice UCC 1-207] (Pat Myrto) Seattle, WA If all else fails, try: ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!pat WISDOM: ""Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."" - Albert Einstien ",16 "Re: The arrogance of Christians Carol Alvin (caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com) wrote: > In the New Testament (sorry I don't have a Bible at work, and can't > provide a reference), women are instructed to be silent and cover > their heads in church. Now, this is scripture. By your definition, > this is truth and therefore absolute. > >Do women in your church speak? Do they cover their heads? If all >scripture is absolute truth, it seems to me that women speaking in and >coming to church with bare heads should be intolerable to evangelicals. >Yet, clearly, women do speak in evangelical churches and come with bare >heads. (At least this was the case in the evangelical churches I grew >up in.) > >Evangelicals are clearly not taking this particular part of scripture >to be absolute truth. (And there are plenty of other examples.) >Can you reconcile this? The problem you see here is that some Christians claim things about the Bible which they don't actually believe or practice. I've known all sorts of Christians, ranging from the trendiest of liberals to the fire-breathing fundamentalists, and although many on the conservative side of the Christian faith do claim that the Bible is a (perhaps *the*) source of absolute truth, I don't know of anyone who treats it as anything other than a valuable part of a living tradition. While I am not a Roman Catholic, I believe this is close to the official position of the RC church (perhaps an RC would like to comment). The particular practice you refer to will usually be explained in terms of the social context of the time. You would think the fact that the conservatives seem to have to break out the tophat-and-cane and give you some big song-and-dance routine about why this (other passages as well) aren't directly applicable today would show them that what they claim about the Bible and what they actually practice are two different things, but mostly it doens't. While this thread is supposed to be about the arrogance of Christians, I would suggest that some of the problem is really hypocrasy, in this case, making claims about the Bible which the claimants don't actually put into practice. But if we step back from the name-calling and look at what people are attempting to say, we see that they are trying to express very concisely the unique place the Bible holds within the Christian faith. So when people use such words or phrases as ""Word of God"", ""inerrant"", ""infallibale"", ""The Manufacturer's Handbook"", ""The only rule of faith and practice in the church today"" to describe the Bible, we should try to hear what they are saying and not just look at the mere words they use. Some of the above descriptions are demostratably false and others are self-contradictory, but in my experience people are generally pretty good at picking out the intention of the speaker even when the speaker's words are at variance with their intentions. A Biblical example is from the garden of Eden where God asks ""Where are you?"" and Adam explains that he was naked and afraid and hid himself. If Adam had answered God's words he would have said something like ""I'm here in this tree."" The problem seems to arise when Christians insist that these words are indeed accurate reflections of their beleif. Most people have not made a determined effort to work out their own understanding of the place of the Bible within their own faith and so rely on the phrases and explanations that others use. I hope this helps. -- ___ Bill Rea (o o) -------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w--- | Bill Rea, Computer Services Centre, | E-Mail b.rea@csc.canterbury.ac.nz | | University of Canterbury, | or cctr114@csc.canterbury.ac.nz | | Christchurch, New Zealand | Phone (03)-642-331 Fax (03)-642-999 | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",15 "Re: Ancient Books In article , whheydt@pbhya.pacbell.com (Wilson Heydt) writes: |> As for the dating of the oldest extant texts of the NT.... How would |> you feel about the US Civil War in a couple of thousand years if the |> only extant text was written about *now*? Now adjust for a largely |> illiterate population, and one in which every copy of a manuscript is |> done by hand.... Considerably better than I feel about, say, the Punic Wars, or the Peloponnesian War (spelling optional), or almost any other event in classical history. How close to the events do you think the oldest extent manuscripts are in those cases? -- Steve Schaffner sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu The opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, Stanford University, or the DOE. ",15 "Re: Corporate acceptance of the wiretap chip : Indeed, if NSA really designed the algorithm to be secure, it's very likely : as secure as IDEA or 2-key DES. However, the system as a whole isn't resistant : to ""practical cryptanalysis."" In _The Puzzle Palace_, Bamford describes how : several NSA employees were turned by foreign (presumably KGB) agents, despite : security measures that I doubt any Big 8 accounting firm could match. And : NSA confidential data was *not* subject to being requested by thousands of : police organizations and courts across the land. Ah yes, don't anyone mention Ronald William Pelton[*], heh heh heh. How embarrassing. G [*: NSA, 1964-1979; KGB 1980-1985] ",11 "RE: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In a previous article, sadek@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mohamed.s.sa >I.................. the senate. > >Condemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans >and calling that ""moral rape"". > >He went on to say that the reason for that is ""out right religious BIGOTRY"" > Mohamed, What has he got to say about the carnage and genocide in our own SUDAN? The two scenarios must be viewed from the same perspective or don't you think so? well, methinks. no flames intended!!! oguocha >Mohamed ",17 "Qestion about amipro demo files on cica Hello I have a question about the demo files for amipro v3 uploaded in cica. I downloaded it and tryied to install it. However, it didn't work. In addition, it altered or eliminated my NWRES2.dll file so that I had to reinstall my Norton Desktop again. Is there anything I have to know to install it or do I eventually have to ask Lotus to send a working model to me (I heard that they have it)? I just want to see its look and feel before buying it. Any pointer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Hiroto miyoshi@psych.toronto.edu ",2 "re: MS Mouse Driver 8.2 In article <1993Apr27.210719.19146@Princeton.EDU> phoenix.Princeton.EDU!carlosn (Carlos G. Niederstrasser) writes: >Does anyone have the documentation for the MS Mouse Driver 8.2? I got it when >I got Windows 3.1, but my Windows manual does not come with the documentation. >In particular I need to know how to turn it off, and how to speed it up >outside windows. The greater sensitivity is needed so I can play various >games, esp X-wing :) > The sensitivity is changed using the /S, /V, or /H parameter. The commands do the following: /V - vertical sensitivity /H - horizontal sensitivity /S - both Follow the parameter with a number from 1 to 100 (1 - slowest, 100-fastest). The default is 50. You can type the command ""mouse /S75"" right from the keyboard or add it to autoexec.bat. Hope this helps. ",2 "Re: PEM and MIME In article <1qg8m2$2e5@nigel.msen.com> (Edward Vielmetti) writes: > I would suggest that 50 attractive MIME formatted news messages a day would be > sufficient to get a few people thinking about adding MIME support to news > readers, esp if the content is really worth it. But that's just the problem. There is no such thing as ""MIME-Formatted"". By analogy, MIME is a content-labelling standard for the box, not a specification for the contents themselves. It provides a standard for ""like-minded"" individuals to exchange mail containing an agreed-upon data format. You say tomahto, I say tomaeto; you say postscript, I say SGML... Cheers, Marc --- Marc Thibault | CIS:71441,2226 | Put another log marc@tanda.isis.org | NC FreeNet: aa185 | on the fire. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.0 mQBNAiqxYTkAAAECALfeHYp0yC80s1ScFvJSpj5eSCAO+hihtneFrrn+vuEcSavh AAUwpIUGyV2N8n+lFTPnnLc42Ms+c8PJUPYKVI8ABRG0I01hcmMgVGhpYmF1bHQg PG1hcmNAdGFuZGEuaXNpcy5vcmc+ =HLnv -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ",11 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.201450.8748@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (some caifone) writes: >>> where they belong. > >> Don't count on it, sweetheart. > >Oh, I can't do anything _BUT_ count on it. After all, it is >inevitable, for it is part of the natural order of things. Wrong. >Throughout >history, nature has always asserted itself. Quite true. And evolution made ""decided"" that homosexuality had a place, otherwise it would have disappeared quite quickly. There are very few animals which do not exhibit homosexual behavior. It has been here before humans existed, and will be here after the human race has gone. >Don't be so arrogant as >to assume that this foolish and misguided generation can change the >nature of man where practically every other generation has failed. Quite true. 2000 years of religious idiocy have not changed the nature of man. You tried to rid yourselves of us for 2000 years and failed. -- ------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! . \ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . . \ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . . \/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . . ",18 "Re: MVP '92 Revisited In article <1r6hf4INNc16@gap.caltech.edu>, Tim Shippert writes: > Ideally, DHs ""should"" be the strongest offensive players, because > any schmoe can play DH if he can hit. That would take care of position > corrected anomolies such as Frank's. Since that is not the case (and why > not? Is it always this way?) then we are going to have trouble finding the > true value of DHs using the same models as that for position players. There are several reasons for this difference. The main reason is that good hitters in their prime (such as Frank Thomas and Danny Tartabull) are rarely regular DH's, even if they can't field; it's more commonly a place to put aging veterans. Another use of the DH slot is to help a player come back from injury slowly, getting his bat in the lineup without forcing him to play in the field. I would expect such players to hit worse as DH's than they did during the rest of the season. A third factor is that most player who split time between DH and first or the outfield don't hit as well as DH's for some reason. Reggie Jackson was a good example; in five years as a RF/DH for the Angels, he hit like the old Reggie when he was in right. The second and third factors will be lost if players are considered by their primary position only; a player who plays 90 games in right and 60 at DH will count only in the right fielders' averages. > A logical starting place would be to look at defensive replacement > value (if you can find it) for 1B or LF or something. We can assume that > if forced to play defense they would play at true zero value, even though I > doubt this is actually true for players like Winfield and Molitor. This > would let us ""discount"" the time they spend playing DH, because that > forces the team to find another real fielder to play. This makes sense; you might also look at it another way. Although the *average* offensive performance of a DH may be lower than for a left fielder, the *replacement-level* offensive performance is certainly lower; if you are a left fielder but can't hit well enough to keep a job anywhere, then you certainly can't hit well enough to keep a job at DH. -- David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu ""We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."" ""Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."" Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me. ",9 "VHS Movies [must sell because I am moving] DK>.@SUBJECT:VHS Movies [must sell because I am moving] N DK>.@FROM :koutd@hiramb.hiram.edu N DK>Newsgroups: misc.forsale,rec.video DK>Subject: VHS Movies [must sell because I am moving] DK>Message-ID: <1993Apr22.095736.1@hiramb.hiram.edu> DK>From: koutd@hiramb.hiram.edu (DOUGLAS KOU) DK>Date: 22 Apr 93 09:57:36 -0500 DK>Organization: Hiram College DK>Those VHS movies have to be sold because I am moving in 6 weeks. DK>And I have no idea what happend to those people who made the DK>deal with me before. So here I am, trying to post another message, DK>againt. ( I don't mean to waste your valuable time.) DK>Basic Instinct $11.00 DK>Born on the Forth of July $11.00 DK>Backdraft $11.00 DK>Presumed Innocent $11.00 DK>The Prince of Tides $11.00 DK>Dance of Wolves $11.00 DK>All the prices are including shipping. You get all of them for DK>$60.00. DK>Package deals are very welcome... DK>So make me an offer... DK>Douglas Kou DK>Hiram College DK>koutd@hirama.hiram.edu Douglas, Hi, I'd like to purchase ""Basic Instinct"" for $11. All of my other notes to you have been returned. I don't know why. It keeps saying address unknown. Please let me know if this movie is still available. Thank you. Jordan McAuley in Atlanta dita@info-gw.blackwlf.mese.com --- . SLMR 2.0 . ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Ed Hopper's BBS - ehbbs.com - Berkeley Lake (Atlanta), Georgia | |USR/HST:404-446-9462 V.32bis:404-446-9465-Home of uuPCB Usenet for PC Board| +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",6 "Active Matrix Clr PB I know that Apple is working on an active matrix color powerbook. When is it going to come out. I heard on rumor that it will be in two months and another that it will be seen at the MacWorld Expo in Boston? What's the word? Jon Hutchison jh6r@andrew.cmu.edu ",4 "Re: Why not concentrate on child molesters? cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: > You mean, if a large part of the population supports discrimination > against homosexuals, they will be injured. But if a large part of the > population supports such discrimination, how did that law get passed? An addition to anti-discrimination laws which includes homo and bisexuality ? One would assume it would be because politicians were listening to the people coming up with rational arguments rather than variations on bigotry. Logic sometimes prevails. BTW, glad to see that you've admitted sexual attraction to children is a seperate sexual orientation. Didn't think you had that much honesty. -- Tony Quirke, Wellington, New Zealand. Quirke_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz ""Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.""--gene spafford,1992 ",18 "Re: CPU Temperature vs CPU Activity ? In article <1993Apr21.152632.709@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> victor@comms.ee.man.ac.uk (Victor Buttigieg) writes: >Lino Montuno (montuno@physics.su.OZ.AU) wrote: >>This may be a very naive question but is there any basis for the >>claim that a CPU will get hotter when a computationally intensive >>job is running? > >I totally agree with your friend, since when the CPU is apparently idle >it is still in fact churning away millions of instructions per second >(checking for keyboard input for instance). > >The exception to this is for CPU's used in laptops, where the CPU can >enter an idle state where it is just preserving its current status but >doing absolutely nothing. In this case it needs a hardware interrupt >to get it going again. Actually, the iAPX86 family has a HALT instruction that causes the CPU to cease processing instructions. The CPU resumes processing either by being reset or by receiving an external (hardware) interrupt. This is different from the power management facilities Victor mentions. Of course, whether an operating system's idle loop uses the HALT instruction is another matter entirely. -- Kenneth R. Ballou VOICE: (617) 494-0990 Oberon Software, Inc. FAX: (617) 494-0414 One Memorial Drive, Cambridge, MA 02142 Internet: ballou@oberon.com The views and opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ",3 "Tektronix I remember seeing something in the X distribution mentioning support for a Tektronix terminal in an X server. Is this accurate? -- mike@hopper.acs.virginia.edu ""I will NOT raise taxes on the middle class."" -Unknown ",5 "Axion Serial port switcher: Good or bad? Hi! I'm looking into buying a serial port switcher, because while my Mac has two serial ports, I have AppleTalk, a modem, a printer, MIDI, and a sound digitizer. (2 != 5, unfortunately.) Specifically, I'm looking at the Axion electronic switcher, because it seems to be fairly cheap. (About $128 at MacZone.) Does anyone know anything about it? I've heard that with most of these things you can still only use 2 serial ports at a time, it just prevents you from physically swapping cables. Although I've also heard that programs that use the Comm Toolbox may be able to use as many serial ports as they want; does anyone know if this is true with the Axion switchbox? Finally, if the Axion stinks, or if you're using something else that you think is good, I'd be interested in hearing about other products. I would like to spend under $140, if possible. Please reply through mail; I'm not a regular reader of this newsgroup. If there's interest, I can post a summary of replies. Thanks a lot! M. Scott Smith (umsmith@mcs.drexel.edu) ",4 "Can OS/2 talk to Windows for Workgroups? I'd like to get a system running OS/2 2.0 GA talking to a network of PCs running Windows for Workgroups. Acting as a server would be wonderful, but client access would be enough. Can I run WFW 's NET utilities in a DOS box? Or is there a way to actually get OS/2 to talk to WFW? Will OS/2 LanMan clients talk to WFW? Dazed and confused, -- [ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ] [ ""stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth. now pull ] [ up. that's how the corrado makes you feel."" -- car, january '93 ] ",2 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: > In article <930420.100544.6n0.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew > writes: > #This is complete nonsense. Relativism means saying that there is no absolut > #standard of morality; it does NOT mean saying that all standards of morality > #are equally good. > > Presumably this means that some moral systems are better than > others? False. (Not (stating (X))) is not equivalent to (stating (not (x))). > How so? How do you manage this without an objective frame of > reference? There is no objective way of measuring the `goodness' of a moral system. It's a value judgement. Therefore there is so objective comparison for moral systems. Therefore there is no `best' moral system. > And what weasel word do you use to describe that frame of reference, if > it isn't an objective reality for values? Similarly, there is no frame of reference that can be used to objectively compare frames of reference. Any such choice is arbitrary. Which is NOT to say that one should not take up reference frames for various purposes. There is nothing to believe -- not even this statement. --- richard@harlequin.com (Internet) richard@harlequin.co.uk (Internet) RPTB1@UK.AC.CAMBRIDGE.PHOENIX (JANET) Zen Buddhist ",0 "Re: YANKKES 1 GAME CLOSER My god, hope we don't have to put up with this kind of junk all season! In article <002251w.5.734117130@axe.acadiau.ca> 002251w@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON WALTER WORKS) writes: > The N.Y.Yankees, are now one game closer to the A.L.East pennant. They >clobbered Cleveland, 9-1, on a fine pitching performance by Key, and two >homeruns by Tartabull(first M.L.baseball to go out this season), and a three How many home runs by Tartabull? Just 1, right, you must be thinking of Dean Palmer or Juan Gonzalez (both of Texas) who each had 2 homers. >run homer by Nokes. For all of you who didn't pick Boggs in your pools, >tough break, he had a couple hits, and drove in a couple runs(with many more I don't know how many to follow, but he was 1 for 4. > GO YANKS., Mattingly for g.glove, and MVP, and Abbot for Cy Young. Spare us, please! ",9 "How to Transfer to Video Tape? Hi All, I'm asking for info on behalf of a friend. Is there, what would be, the best way to copy the output of a monitor on to video tape? Any ideas? Please prescribe additional hardware and/or software? (I'm just assuming an Intel/Windows environment). Thanks in advance. --Jerry -- ||=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|| Help Support DAM ||-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|| || Jerry W. Johnson || Struggling CSCI Grad Student || || jwjohn@ecst.csuchico.edu || (Is There Any Other Kind?) || ||=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|| Mothers Against Dyslexia ||-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|| ",2 "PRK referral in Canada Could some please refer me to someone who can perform PRK (Photo Refractive Keratostomy) in Canada (preferably eastern portion). I've looked in the yellow pages with little success, and if someone has had a good (or bad, for that matter) experience, that would be especially helpful if you could please let me know. Thanks, Kurt Hozak 92hozak@lab.cc.wmich.edu (preferred address) ",13 "Re: books/info on audio DSP ?? In article scst83@csc.liv.ac.uk (Chris Smith) writes: > I'm looking to build a DSP for guitar processing. Hence lots of background > information would be really useful ! > > If anyone's got any info, could they email..... Well, I'm not sure I'd use this to process a guitar but there was a audio filter DSP construction article in the Sept 92 issue of QST magazine (Ham Radio oriented). The DSP is available in kit form for about $120. This particular DSP filter was targetted toward processing audio to remove noise (static). I built it and it really works well. The source code is available too. It makes a noisy audio signal much easier to hear. Note that this is for communication applications and is not ""high fidelity"". -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + Mike Linnig, Texas Instruments Inc. | 97.43% of all statistics are made | Phone: (214) 575-3597 CALL: N5QAW | up; most of them (83.6 percent) | Internet: mike.linnig@dseg.ti.com | are wrong. | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ",12 "AHL Playoff results AHL PLAYOFF SCORES-- FIRST ROUND (home team in CAPS) ================================ GAMES PLAYED ON TUES, 4/20 ------------------------- Rochester 6 UTICA 4 Fredericton at Cape Breton SERIES STATI (plural of status? :) ---------------------------------- Adirondack leads CDI, 3-0 Providence tied w/Springfield, 2-2 Binghamton tied w/Baltimore, 1-1 Rochester leads Utica, 2-1 St John's leads Moncton, 2-0 Cape Breton tied w/Fredericton, 1-1 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Bri Farenell farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu + + AHL, ECAC and Boston Bruins contact for rec.sport.hockey + + Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81 '86 '89 '92 + + Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66 '91 '93 + + Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90 '91 + + AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ",10 "RE: Jews/Islam Dr. Frankenstien Some of your article was cut off on the right margin, but I will try and answer from what I can read. In article kaveh@gate-koi.corp.sgi.com (Kaveh Smith ) writes: >I have found Jewish people very imagentative and creative. Jewish religion was the foundation for Christianity and >Islam. In other words Judaism has fathered both religions. Now Islam has turned against its father I may say. >It is Ironic that after communizem threat is almost gone, religion wars are going to be on the raise. >I thought the idea of believing on one God, was to Unite all man kind. How come both Jews and Islam which believe >on the same God, ""the God of Ebrahim"" are killing each other? Is this like Dr. Frankenstien's story? >How are you going to stop this from happening? How are you going to deal with so many Muslims. Nuking them >would distroy the whole world? Would God get mad, since you have killed his followers, you believe on the same >God, same heaven and the same hell after all? What is the peacefull way of ending this Saga? > Judaism did not father Islam. We had many of the same prophets, but Judaism ignores prophets later prophets including Jesus Christ (who Christians and Muslims believe in) and Mohammed. The idea of believing in one God should unite all peoples. However, note that Christianity and Islam reflect the fact that there are people with different views and the rights of non-Christians and non-Muslims are stated in each religion. >Man kind needs religion, since it sets up the rules and the regulations which keeps the society in a healthy state. >A religion is mostly a sets of rules which people have experienced and know it works for the society. >The praying, keeps the sole healthy and meditates it. God does not care for man kinds pray, but man kind hopes >that God will help him when he prays. >Religion works mostly on the moral issues and trys to put away the materialistic things in the life. But the >religious leaders need to make a living through religion? So they may corrupt it, or turn it to their own way to >make their living. i.e Muslims have to pay %20 percent of their income to the Mullahs. I guess the rabie gets his >cut too! > We are supposed to pay 6% of our income after all necessities are paid. Please note that this 6% is on a personal basis - if you are poor, there is no need to pay (quite the contrary, this money most often goes to the poor in each in country and to the poor Muslims around the world). Also, this money is not required in the human sense (i.e. a Muslim never knocks at your door to ask for money and nobody makes a list at the mosque to make sure you have paid (and we surely don't pass money baskets around during our prayer services)). >Is in it that religion should be such that everybody on planet earth respects each other, be good toward each other >helps one another, respect the mother nature. Is in that heaven and hell are created on earth through the acts >that we take today? Is in it that within every man there is good and bad, he could choose either one, then he will >see the outcome of his choice. How can we prevent man kind from going crazy over religion. How can we stop >another religious killing field, under poor Gods name? What are your thoughts? Do you think man kind would >to come its senses, before it is too late? > > >P.S. on the side > >Do you think that Moses saw the God on mount Sina? Why would God go to top of the mountain? He created >the earth, he could have been anywhere? why on top the mountain? Was it because people thought to see God >you have to reach to the skies/heavens? Why God kept coming back to Middle East? Was it because they created >God through their imagination? Is that why Jewish people were told by God, they were the chosen ones? > God's presence is certainly on Earth, but since God is everywhere, God may show signs of existence in other places as well. We can not say for sure where God has shown signs of his existence and where he has not/. >Profit Mohammad was married to Khadijeh. She was a Jewish. She taught him how to trade. She probably taught >him about Judaism. Quran is mostly copy right of Taurah (sp? old testement). Do you think God wrote Quran? >Makeh was a trade city before Islam. Do you think it was made to be the center of Islamic world because Mohammad >wanted to expand his trade business? Is that why God has put his house in there? > The Qur'an is not a copyright of the Taurah. Muslims believe that the Taurah, the Bible, and the Qur'an originally contained much the same message, thus the many similiarities. However, the Taurah and the Bible have been 'translated' into other languages which has changed their meaning over time (a translation also reflects some of the personal views of the translator(s). The Qur'an still exists in the same language that it was revealed in - Arabic. Therefore, we know that mankind has not changed its meaning. It is truly what was revealed to Mohammed at that time. There are many scientific facts which were not discovered by traditional scientific methods until much later such as the development of the baby in the mother's womb. >I think this religious stuff has gone too far. All man kind are going to hurt from it if they do not wise up. >Look at David Koresh, how that turned out? I am afraid in the bigger scale, the Jews and the Muslims will >have the same ending!!!!!!!! > Only God knows for sure how it will turn out. I hope it won't, but if that happens, it was the will of God. >Religion is needed in the sense to keep people in harmony and keep them doing good things, rather than >plotting each others distruction. There is one earth, One life and one God. Let's all man kind be good toward >each other. > >God help us all. >Peace >. >. Please send this mail to me again so I can read the rest of what you said. And yes, may God help us all. Steve ",17 "TIGER STADIUM GIF? Does anybody have a GIF of the Tiger Stadium seating chart? Thanks! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Brian Curran Mead Data Central brian@meaddata.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""I didn't think I should've been asked to catch when the temperature was below my age."" - Carlton Fisk, Chicago White Sox catcher, on playing during a 40-degree April ball game ",9 "NHL Team Items... I live in the desolate MidWest (as far as hockey is concerned) and our ""sports"" stores around here carry VERY LITTLE hockey stuff, except for San Jose, Tampa Bay, L.A., Pittsburgh, and if you're lucky Chicago. I would like to know if anyone knows of any m,ail order, phone order stores that I might be able to get in contact with. I am dying for some real hockey stuff (hats, shirts, key chains, etc.) for some other teams (Edmonton, Montreal, etc.) so if you have any information, PLEASE e-mail me DIRECTLY. Most appreciated! Good luck to your teams in the Stanley Cup playoffs! GO EDMONTON (likely...NOT!!) Maybe next year... -- ""If you assult someone you get 5 years--In hockey, 5 minutes. Is this a great sport or what?!"" Kevin D. Frank kfrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ",10 "X server only on Sun? I have been using a HDS X-terminal, and really like it. What is really powerful is that it can run the X server without running a window manager. One can then run a special client X program called a window manager, either (1) run motif or openlook from it's own firmware (limiting the network traffic - but having no HOME). or (2) run motif or openlook from some home place (like a sparc, or vms). This is powerful, especially since I can exit one window manager (without killing windows) and then start up another manager. (Some of my VMS tools need special meta-mouse combos that work in one manager and not the other). Well the question is: On a sparcstation running openlook, does anyone know how to break apart olwm from the olwm_slave program? Basically I want to run only the server, and go somewhere else to run the window manager. --- Please respond my e-mail (as well as posting) because of the large volumes in window.X) Thanks. -- Scott Moody (206) 773-4313 ""There are no answers .. just cross references"" scott@shuksan.boeing.com uunet!bcstec!shuksan!scott ",5 "Re: Best Homeruns How about Brooks Robinson's last homerun ever? #268 came on 4-19-77 at Memorial Stadium with one out and two on in the bottom of the 10th inning. Larry Harlow was due up, but Brooks pinch-hit a 3-2 pitch from Dave LaRoche into the left field bleachers for a 6-5 win. -Brian Klaff ",9 "Re: Did US drive on the left? In article <1993Apr6.060553.22453@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes: ...deleted lines... >>Well Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on >Australians still do drive on the ""wrong"" side of the road. I believe >Sweden changed in 1968. The way I heard it was that they swapped >all the traffic signs around one Sunday.... As I live in Sweden I remember the day perfectly well. We changed side 1967-09-03 (or 03-SEP-1967). I don't remeber the exactly time but it was in the night. (in the 'big' cities like Stockholm & Gothenburg all trafic was forbidden, exept busses and taxis, during the whole weekend.) The day was a Sunday and everything was prepared in before. Before the day we was told to follow the yellow lines on the road and after it was the white one that matters. The signs with arrows on was prepared with a 'left mode' label that was torn off that night to reveal the new right mode arrow. The year after Iceland also changed. About cars: Before the H-day (H as in ""Hoegertrafik"". ""hoeger"" is Swedish and stands for 'right') practically all cars already had their steering wheels on the left side. Even the imported cars from UK had the wheel on 'the right side'. At last we have cars with the wheels on the right side. :-) More contries that uses the left side is: Japan Tanzania (I think) New Zeeland How about South Africa? BTW. Some sais that the left side is the right side because Ivanhoe and other knights meet at the left when they fight in tournaments. :-) ...deleted lines... Kent Gabrin CelsiusTech Systems ! My thinking is not as great as S-175 88 Jaerfaella Sweden ! Oliver Berendinus Bumble /Will Try KEGA@Celsiustech.se ! Company sold again. Former name was: NobelTech ",7 "Re: Limiting Govt (was Re: Employment (was Re: Why not concentrate...) Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt) writes: : : >It's quite possible that a buyer and seller will both : >trust some third party more than either trust the other, and : >will desire the moderation of that third party. But if a random : >third party assumes the right to interfere in a transaction contarary : >to the wishes of the primary participants, odds are pretty good the : >results will be detrimental. : : So we try to ensure that the process of deciding whether to introduce : third parties isn't random. As Steve said above, there are examples : where third parties *are* less ignorant or corrupt than the two : primary parties; should this knowledge not be able to help? : A third party should be able to use persuasion to sway the transaction. If, on the other hand, we condone the use of force or threat of violence by the third party, then we are in trouble. A fourth party could say that it knows better than parties 1, 2, and 3. And a fifth party... and so on. Who wins? The one that can use the force or threat of force the best. In other words ""Might makes right."" Let's abandon such aggressive tactics and work from voluntary cooperation and respect from others. That is what libertarians want. -- Paul Schmidt: Advocates for Self-Government, Davy Crockett Chapter President 706 Judith Drive, Johnson City, TN 37604, (615)283-0084, uunet!tijc02!pjs269 ""Freedom seems to have unleashed the creative energies of the people -- and leads to ever higher levels of income and social progress."" -- U.N. report ",18 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: >In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >>Theory of Creationism: MY theistic view of the theory of creationism, (there >>are many others) is stated in Genesis 1. In the beginning God created >>the heavens and the earth. > What was before the beginning? Ah. A real question/comment. Creation was the beginning of time. Before that existed an uncaused cause. Whew! That oughta generate some responses. MAC >--- > "" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. "" > John Laws, a man without the honor to keep his given word. -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",19 "Re: islamic authority over women snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes: >In article <1993Apr7.163445.1203@wam.umd.edu> west@next02.wam.umd.edu writes: >>> >> And belief causes far more horrors. >>> >> Crusades, >>> >> the emasculation and internment of Native Americans, >>> >> the killing of various tribes in South America. >>> >-the Inquisition >>> >-the Counter-reformation and the wars that followed >>> >-the Salem witch trials >>> >-the European witch hunts >>> >-the holy wars of the middle east >>> >-the colonization/destruction of Africa >>> >-the wars between Christianity and Islam (post crusade) >>> >-the genocide (biblical) of the Canaanites and Philistines >>> >-Aryian invasion of India >>> >-the attempted genocide of Jews by Nazi Germany >>> >-the current missionary assaults on tribes in Africa >>> >>> I think all the horrors you mentioned are due to *lack* of people >>> following religion. .d. >By lack of people following religion I also include fanatics- people >that don't know what they are following. .d. >So how do you know that you were right? >Why are you trying to shove down my throat that religion causes horrors. >It really covers yourself- something false to save yourself. > >Peace, > >Bobby Mozumder > I just thought of another one, in the Bible, so it's definately not because of *lack* of religion. The Book of Esther (which I read the other day for other reasons) describes the origin of Pur'im, a Jewish celbration of joy and peace. The long and short of the story is that 75,000 people were killed when people were tripping over all of the peacefull solutions lying about (you couldn't swing a sacred cow without slammin into a nice, peaceful solution.) 'Course Joshua and the jawbone of an ass spring to mind... I agree with Bobby this far: religion as it is used to kill large numbers of people is usually not used in the form or manner that it was originally intended for. That doesn't reduce the number of deaths directly caused by religion, it is just a minor observation of the fact that there is almost nothing pure in the Universe. The very act of honestly attempting to find true meaning in religious teaching has many times inspired hatred and led to war. Many people have been led by religious leaders more involved in their own stomache-contentsthan in any absolute truth, and have therefore been driven to kill by their leaders. The point is that there are many things involved in religion that often lead to war. Whether these things are a part of religion, an unpleasant side effect or (as Bobby would have it) the result of people switching between Religion and Atheism spontaneously, the results are the same. @Religious groups have long been involved in the majority of the bloodiest parts of Man's history.@ Atheists, on the other hand (preen,preen) are typically not an ideological social caste, nor are they driven to organize and spread their beliefs. The overuse of Nazism and Stalinism just show how true this is: Two groups with very clear and specific ideologies using religious persecution to further their means. Anyone who cannot see the obvious - namely that these were groups founded for reasons *entirely* their own, who used religious persecution not because of any belief system but because it made them more powerfull - is trying too hard. Basically, Bobby uses these examples because there are so few wars that were *not* *specifically* fought over religion that he does not have many choices. Well, I'm off to Key West where the only flames are heating the bottom of little silver butter-dishes. -ciao -chris blask ",0 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. Well, I seem to have struck an interesting discussion off. Given that I am not an astrophysicist or nuclear physicist, i'll have to boil it down a bit. 1) ALl the data on bursts to date, shows a smooth random distribution. 2) that means they aren't concentrated in galactic cores, our or someone elses. 3) If the distribution is smooth, we are either seeing some ENORMOUSLY large phenomena scattered at the edge of the universe said phenomena being subject to debate almost as vioent as the phenomena OR we are seeing some phenomena out at like the Oort cloud, but then it needs some potent little energy source, that isn't detectable by any other current methods. 4) we know it's not real close, like slightly extra solar, because we have no parallax measurements on the bursts. 5) the bursts seem to bright to be something like black hole quanta or super string impacts or something like that. So everyone is watching the data and arguing like mad in the meanwhile. what i am wondering, is this in people's opinion, A NEW Physics problem. Einstein got well known for solvingthe photoelectric effect. Copernicus, started looking at irregularities in planetary motion. Is this a big enough problem, to create a new area of physics? just a little speculative thinking folks. pat ",14 "Re: Civility shut up andi! ",17 "Re: Discussions on alt.psychoactives In article <1r4bhsINNhaf@hp-col.col.hp.com> billc@col.hp.com (Bill Claussen) writes: > >This group was originally a takeoff from sci.med. The reason for >the formation of this group was to discuss prescription psychoactive >drugs....such as ... > >Oh well, obviously, no one really cares. --- Then let me ask you for a ""workable"" solution. We have a name here that implies certain things to many people. Rather than trying to educate each and every person that comes to the group -- is there some ""name"" that would imply what this group was originally intended for? My dad was a lawyer -- as such I grew up with being a stickler for ""meaning"". In my ""reality"", psychoactives *technically* could range from caffeine to datura to the drugs you mention to more standard recreational drugs. In practice I had hoped to see it limited to those that were above some psychoactive level -- like some of the drugs you mention, but also possibly including *some* recreational drugs -- but with conversation limited to their psychoactive effects -- the recent query about ""bong water"", I thought was a bit off topic -- so I just hit ""k"". But back to the original question -- what is a workable solution -- what is a workable name that would imply the topic you with to discuss? It sounds like there should be a alt.smartdrugs, or something similar -- I don't feel psychoactives would generally be used to describe alot of those drugs. There is a big difference between a drug that if taken in ""certain doses, over a period of days may have a psychoactive effect in some people"", vs. many of the drugs in PIHKAH which *are* psychoactive. wm -- :: If pro-choice means choice after conception, does this apply to men too? :: ",13 "Re: Top Ten Excuses for Slick Willie's Record-Setting Disapproval Rati In article <2671@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson) writes: > shapiro@sofbas.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes: > : > : Oh, and BTW, its William Jefferson Blythe Clinton. > : > : Regards, > : Steve. > > > No, it's not- and I really fail to understand the use of that name > as an insult. Do you feel that being adopted implies some sort of > moral failing? Yes, it is -- you could look it up. And spare us the thin-skinned indignation, please; what's sauce for four years of using George Herbert Walker Bush and J. Danforth Quayle as an insult is sauce for William Jefferson Blythe Clinton. Do you feel that calling a President by his full name implies some sort of disrespect? Hint: this is a rhetorical question. ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ Paul Havemann (Internet: paul@hsh.com) * They're not just opinions -- they're caffeine for the brain! * ** (Up to 50 milligrams per cynical observation.) ** Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement: 1,000 mg. Keep reading. ",18 "micro solutions backpack not working properly hello all- i have a problem with my micro solutions backpack- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. i will either start a backup, or start a tape format, and at about 20 percent i get an error either saying the tape is bad or the backup/format has aborted for an unknown reason. if i turn everything off and wait a half hour it works fine. is it because the tape backup is too warm? has anyone had similar experiences? thanks, kevin ",3 "More Cool BMP files?? In article <1993Apr17.023017.17301@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> rwang@gmuvax2.gmu.edu writes: > > Hi, everybody: > I guess my subject has said it all. It is getting boring > looking at those same old bmp files that came with Windows. So, > I am wondering if there is any body has some beautiful bmp file > I can share. Or maybe somebody can tell me some ftp site for > some bmp files, like some scenery files, some animals files, > etc.... I used to have some, unfortunately i delete them all. I downloaded the CompuServe GIF of the month. A raytraced image of a golf ball next to a hole. Very nice, 640x480x256 bitmap, easily converted to a Windows BMP. If anyone wants, I could upload a copy on Cica... Eric -- +------------------------+----------------------------+------------------+ | Eric Trepanier | Internet: eric@tgm.CAM.ORG | CI$: 71042,3207 | | 55 Grenon O. +----------------------------+------------------+ | Laval (Quebec) H7N 5M3 | Everybody has a right to believe in something | | Canada / (514)663-6929 | I believe I'll have another beer! | +------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",2 "Re: Who be Conservative on this..... In <1993Apr2.154706.15557@rotag.mi.org> kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes: |Congress is NOT allowed to abrogate the constitutional rights and privileges |already enjoyed by persons, however, unless the abrogation has a ""rational |reason"" or a ""compelling interest"" to it, depending on which standard is |applied. This is relevant because granting a right to one class of persons |by definition ALWAYS impinges on the rights of another class or classes or |persons, to some degree. In the case of abortion, establishing rights for |the unborn impinges GREATLY on the rights of pregnant women. There has yet |to be presented a sufficient justification for such fetal rights. Not to your satisfaction. But the arguments have convinced me, and others. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com ",18 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? In article <1r3jl5$igh@function.mps.ohio-state.edu> pali+@osu.edu writes: >Yes, I know computers and harddisk drives should be ALWAYS on. Is this true? I thought that this was disputed... -- -Peter Peter White Internet:pw4963@uacsc1.albany.edu State Univ. of New York at Albany Bitnet:pw4963@albnyvms ",4 "Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) writes: > Atheism denies the existence of God. This is logically bankrupt -- >where is the proof of this nonexistence? It's a joke. This is one of my favorite fallacious points against atheism, i.e. the belief that you can't deny anything that you can't prove doesn't exist. This is easily nailed by showing that an infinite number of beings are conceivable but not observed to exist, does this mean that we would have to believe in all of them? According to the above poster, we must believe in objects or beings that haven't been proved not to exist so why stop at God? (there could be a huge number of beings identical to Ronald Reagan except for trivial differences, say one is missing a finger, one has blond hair,... and they all live on other planets so we can't see them) The reason no one but atheists bring this up is that none of these christians have a vested interest in these unknown beings with the exception of God. >Fine, but why do these people shoot themselves in the foot and mock the idea of >a God? Here again is a classic atheist fallacy. How did they shoot themselves in the foot? > Radical Muslims, the Crusades, the Inquisition are common examples that >atheists like to bring up as marks against religion. How weak! Only fools can >take that drivel seriously. How about the grand-daddy of all human atrocities, >the Stalinist movement? > Twenty eight MILLION people _killed_ under this leadership, which >proudly featured atheism. There is a big difference here, Stalin didn't say that he stood for a particular moral position (i.e. against murder and terrorism, etc.) and then did the opposite (like the religious movements), he was at least an honest killer. (This is NOT a support of Stalin but an attack on this viewpoint). Saying that atheism supports murder and violence just because one man was a tyrant and an atheist is just bad logic, look at all the russians that helped Stalin that weren't atheists - don't they contradict your point? Besides your point assumes that his atheism was relevant to his murdering people, this is just the common assumption that atheists can't value life as much as theists (which you didn't support). > Agnostics are not as funny because they are more reasonable. Yet >they do in some sense seem funny because they believe that the existence of God >is unknowable. This in itself is every bit the assumption that atheism is, >though it's less arrogant and pompous. Ah, and here's another point you didn't get out of the FAQ. An atheist doesn't have to hold the positive view that god doesn't exist, he/she may just have the non-existence of the positive belief. Here's the example: Strong atheism - ""I believe god does not exist"" a positive belief Weak atheism - ""I don't believe in a god"" a negative belief these are NOT the same, some one that has never thought of the idea of god in their whole life is technically an atheist, but not the kind that you are calling unreasonable. Or let's look at it this way (in sets) suppose that a given person has a huge set of ideas that I will represent as capital letters and these people then either believe that these ideas exist as real objects or not. So if S = santa, then E(S)= no is the person not believing in santa but still having the idea of santa. But notice that even E(S) = no is itself another idea! This means you have lots of cases: christian : (A,E(A)=yes,B,E(B)=no, . . . G,E(G)=yes......) where G = god atheist (strong) : (A,E(A). . . . .G,E(G)=no) atheist (weak) : (A,.....E) i.e. no G at all in the set agnostic : (A,.......G, E(G) = indeterminate, E', ....) > Why are people so afraid to say ""undecided""? It must just be another >feature of human nature -- ""undecided"" is not a sexy, trendy, or glamorous >word. It does not inspire much hate or conflict. It's not blasphemous. >It's not political. In fact it is too often taken to mean unsophisticated. Nietzsche once said that a man would rather will nonexistence than not will at all but the darwinist way to put this is that humanity always prefers no or yes to a maybe because indecision is not a useful survival trait, evolution has drilled it in us to take positions, even false ones. >Bake Timmons, III M.S. ",0 "Re: Welcome to Police State USA hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: >Any government that allows tinpot dictators to set up shop and declare >a private state has drifted into anarchy. There are laws to control >the ownership of guns and the BATF had good reason to beleive that >they were being violated. They set out to obtain a legal warrant and >attempted to serve it only to be met with gunfire when they rang >the doorbell. Of course they did, otherwise they wouldn't have staged the raid in the first place. >The paranoid assertion that the BATF fired first in an unprovoked >assault assumes that the BATF were on a death wish. Had they >expected the B-D to be anything other than peacefull citizens who >would accept a search authorized by a court they would have turned up >in a tank and broken the door down on day one. >The stupidity was the attempt to serve a warant on the place by >ludicrously underarmed and unprotected police. >If anyone on the net cares to suggest a sure fire method of bringing >the murderes of four police officers to justice perhaps we could >hear it. Napalming seems a bit redundant. The Stupidity was in the BATF mindset 'We're from Washington We Know Better"" Execute Plan A: Storm the compound in a No-Knock - the locals are gullible rubes, who cares that they served warrents by knocking on the door. Such an old fashioned, out dated method of Law Enforcement anyway. Gotta have the latest Armament Technology, doncha know? Sweet baby buddah - didn't these clown ever read ""Dealing with Paranoids""? chus pyotr >Phill Hallam-Baker -- pyotr@halcyon.com Sometimes Pyotr Filipivich, sometimes Owl. OPTIMIST: Bagpiper with a beeper. ",18 "Correction on my last posting (GLX & lack of cous on Dialog Widget) On the code I sent, please replace the line: XtAddCallback(PopUpShell, XtNcallback, MyPopUp, (XtPointer)PopUpShell); by XtAddCallback(Button, XtNcallback, MyPopUp, (XtPointer)PopUpShell); --- The rest (and my question) remains the same... Dan ",5 "Where's DMORF? Could anyone direct me to the FTP site where I can find the DOS-based morphing package called DMORF12.ZIP? I had downloaded this file last week, but the new DOS 6 crashed my hard drive and I lost it. Now I can't find the site where I got it from....... Also, are there any other morphing packages out for DOS (freeware or shareware) Thanks in advance, Barry /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | \\ // _______ _______ egerter@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca | | \\ // // | | | \\ /\ // || ___ | Author of WGT graphics | | \\//\\// || \\ | toolkit for 320*200*256 VGA | | \/ \/ . \\____// . | . Version 3.5 Now Available | | (Turbo/Borland C++ 1.0 or better)| |JOYSTICK MOUSE GRAPHICS PRIMITIVES NON-BGI POWER GIF/PCX DATA STORAGE | |SPRITES MULTIWAY SCROLLING GAMES BITMAP WARPING/RESIZING SB SUPPORT FLI| \___________________________________________________________________________/ -- /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | \\ // _______ _______ egerter@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca | | \\ // // | | ",1 "Re: Lindros will be traded!!! In article <1993Apr5.163209.576@r-node.hub.org> shadow@r-node.hub.org (Jay Chu) writes: >True rumor. Fact! A big three way deal! > >Eric Lindros going to Ottawa Senators. And Senators get $15mill from >Montreal. > >Montreal gets Alexander Daigle (the first round pick from Senators) > >Philly gets Damphousse, Bellow, Patrick Roy and a draft pick. > Another person incapable of rational thought! Gerald ",10 "Re: Ed must be a Daemon Child!! In article bethd@netcom.com (Beth Dixon) writes: >In article <1993Apr14.133413.1499@research.nj.nec.com> behanna@syl.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes: >>In article bethd@netcom.com (Beth Dixon) writes: >>>Bzzzzt. It was me. Until I discovered my SR250 Touring Bike has a >>>nifty little cache on it for things like coins or lipstick. The >>>new Duc 750SS doesn't, so I'll have to go back to carrying my lipstick >>>in my jacket pocket. Life is _so_ hard. :-) >> >> Am I the only denizen who thinks that the Natural Look is the best >>look? The thought of kissing that waxy shit smeared all over a woman's lips >>is a definite turn-off... >So does clear lipstick/chapstick/etc. fit under the ""natural look"" or >the ""waxy shit"" category? I wear something on my lips to keep them from >drying out. Kissing dry, cracked, parched lips isn't too fun either. Agreed, but, yes, chapstick fits under the ""waxy shit"" category, although I've noticed that stealing Annette's chapstick (after she's applied it :-) kept my lips from cracking this past winter like they have in all previous winters. Sigh...the price I must pay... >> Not that I'll ever be kissing Beth or Noemi... ;-) >Not if Tom has anything to say about it you won't! Noemi speaks for >herself. So does my darling Annette (okay, I guess you can ready the barf bags now :-) Later, -- Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. ",8 "Re: Lexus and Infiniti In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes: >First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division >is ""Infiniti"" not ""Infinity."" I would also like to clear up the question >of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a >person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models >had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each >manufacturer used V8 engines. > >Lexus: > LS400- V8 > GS300- V6 > ES300- V6 > SC400- V8 > SC300- V6 The GS300 and SC300 have an inline 6. > >Infiniti: > Q45- V8 > J30- V6 > G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here) Inline 4 is correct. > >I hope this helps. > >-BSB Keith ",7 "O'Reilly X, Adobe P'Script, Sun OpenLook books cheap I have some brand new copies of the following books for sale. Some are down-rev, don't know which or by how much: look to # of pages, copyright date, etc. for clues. ""PostScript Language Reference Manual"", Adobe Sys. Inc., Addison-Wesley, copyr. 1986, printed 1990. 299 pages. $22.95. ""PostScript Language Tutorial and Cookbook"", as above, 243 pages, $16.95 I'll sell the above two books as a set for $15 postage paid w/in US. ""OpenLook GUI Functional Specification"", Sun Micro, Addison-W, copyr. 1989, 564 pages, $34.95. ""OpenLook GUI Application Style Guidelines"", 388 pages, $24.95. I'll sell the above two books as a set for $15 ppd. w/in US. O'Reilly & Associates Definitive Guides to the X Window System, copyr. 1990, ""for version 11"", ""revised and updated for Release 4"": Vol. 0: ""X Protocol Reference Manual,"" 498 pages $30 Vol. 1: ""Xlib Programming Manual,"" 672 pages $34.95 Vol. 2: ""Xlib Reference Manual,"" 792 pages $34.95 Vol. 7: ""XView Programming Manual,"" 640 pages $30 I'll sell the above four books as a set for $35 ppd. w/in US Due to the high hassle/$ ratio I am asking for pre-payment by check. I'll be queing cashing, packing, and shipping so be prepared to wait 3 weeks for your books to show up. If you'd like to pick them up, I live in San Francisco. Same prices though. E-mail me if you are interested. Thanks! -cornhead ",5 "Re: free moral agency In article <1r98voINNr9q@lynx.unm.edu> cfaehl@vesta.unm.edu (Chris Faehl) writes: >> The myth to which I refer is the convoluted counterfeit athiests have >> created to make religion appear absurd. > >""Counterfeit atheists"". Hmmmm. So, we're just cheap knock-offs of the >True Atheists. They must be theists in disguise. In any event, we don't _need_ to create religious parodies: just look at some actual religions which are absurd. And now . . . Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey. If you go parachuting, and your parachute doesn't open, and your friends are all watching you fall, I think a funny gag would be to pretend you were swimming. ",0 "Re: What do Nuclear Site's Cooling Towers do? >>water. As I recall the water isn't as hot (thermodynamically) in many >>fossil fuel plants, and of course there is less danger of radioactive >>contamination. > Actually, fossil fuel plants run hotter than the usual >boiling-water reactor nuclear plants. (There's a gripe in the industry >that nuclear power uses 1900 vintage steam technology). So it's >more important in nuclear plants to get the cold end of the system >as cold as possible. Hence big cooling towers. as a point of info, some of the early nuclear power plants in this country used the fission pile as a first stage to get the water hot, and then had a second stage -fossil fuel- step to get the water (actually steam) VERY HOT. I remember seeing this at Con Edison's Indian Point #1 power plant, which is about 30 miles north of NYC, and built more or less 1958. dannyb@panix.com (all the usual disclaimers apply, whatever they may be) ",12 "Re: WINQVTNET with NDIS on Token Ring ? In article <1993APR21.210954.40516@DATAMARK.CO.NZ>, thomas@datamark.co.nz writes: |> In article <1993Apr21.082152@liris.tew.kuleuven.ac.be> wimvh@liris.tew.kuleuven.ac.be (Wim Van Holder) writes: |> >Is it possible to use WinQVT/Net on a machine that uses NDIS to connect to a |> >Token Ring ? I tried it with older versions (< 3.2) but got an invalid packet |> >class error or something the like... |> |> How are you attempting to do that? |> |> Are you using the DIS_PKT9 program? This provides a packet driver on |> top of the NDIS driver. |> I tried to do so, but people told me that even if I used DISPKT, the packets would still be incompatible. Is this true ? |> -- |> Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz Work: 64 4 233 8186 __o |> Technical Writer | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz Home: 64 4 499 3832 _-\<, |> Wellington, NZ | Hound for hire. Will work for dog biscuits. (_)/(_) Wim Van Holder Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Tel: ++32 (0)16/28.57.16 Departement T.E.W. FAX: ++32 (0)16/28.57.99 Dekenstraat 2 B-3000 Leuven E-mail: wimvh@liris.tew.kuleuven.ac.be BELGIUM fdbaq03@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be ",2 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. In article enzo@research.canon.oz.au (Enzo Liguori) writes: ;From the article ""What's New"" Apr-16-93 in sci.physics.research: ; ;........ ;WHAT'S NEW (in my opinion), Friday, 16 April 1993 Washington, DC ; ;1. SPACE BILLBOARDS! IS THIS ONE THE ""SPINOFFS"" WE WERE PROMISED? ;What about light pollution in observations? (I read somewhere else that ;it might even be visible during the day, leave alone at night). ;Is NASA really supporting this junk? ;Are protesting groups being organized in the States? ;Really, really depressed. ; ; Enzo I wouldn't worry about it. There's enough space debris up there that a mile-long inflatable would probably deflate in some very short period of time (less than a year) while cleaning up LEO somewhat. Sort of a giant fly-paper in orbit. Hmm, that could actually be useful. As for advertising -- sure, why not? A NASA friend and I spent one drunken night figuring out just exactly how much gold mylar we'd need to put the golden arches of a certain American fast food organization on the face of the Moon. Fortunately, we sobered up in the morning. ",14 "Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. In article , gfk39017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George F. Krumins) writes: [deleted] >To say that ""visible light astronomy is already a dying field"" is >pure hokum. To use the ""logic"" that things are already bad, so it doesn't >matter if it gets worse is absurd. Maybe common sense and logic >are the dying fields. > >George Krumins >-- [deleted] Ok, so those scientists can get around the atmosphere with fancy computer algorythims, but have you looked ad the Hubble results, the defects of the mirror are partially correctable with software (see those jupiter pictures for results), but is the effects are completely reversable, why is there going to be a shuttle mission to fix it? The way I see it (and please, astromomers give me a swift net-kick in the butt if i'm out of the ball park), the astromers are making the best of limited possiblities, there's only one hubble, and the shuttle makes another in the near future a non-thought. Perhaps those self same billboards could have small optical receptors of a limited kind mounted on the reverse sides of the mirror's (if that is what is used) and then the whole thing becomes a giant array telescope... -- ---------=======================================================--------- ->POLAR CAPS<- or tfv0@lehigh.edu Student Konsultant Making the world safe for computing! ""Never before have we owed so little to so many...""- R.T.Folk ""One must not confuse John Dunne's famous quote `No man is an Island' with New York Telephone's `We're all connected'"" - Dad ",14 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <1993Apr25.031703.5230@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes: >The intent of my post (as I remember it) was to show that you cannot >argue against any religion (or ideology, for that matter) by the actions >of those who claim to be its followers. You have to look at the >teachings of the religion (or the principles of the ideology) _itself_. >There is no getting around this. > >So to argue against Islam, you have to go to the Qur'an. Bringing up >Khomeini (or anyone else) is relevant to discussing Khomeini, but not >_necessarily_ relevant to discussing Islam _as a religion_. Sorry, Fred, but for the purposes under discussion here, I must disagree. Your point is true only in the sense that one cannot argue against communism by reference to the Chinese or Soviet empires, since those did not represent *true* communism. In judging the practical consequences of Islam as a force to contend with in the world today, it is precisely the Khomeini's of the world, the Rushdie-fatwa supporters, and perhaps more importantly, the reaction of the world Muslim community to those extremists, that we must look to. Perhaps unfortunately from your perspective, most people are not concerned with whether Islam is the right religion for them, or whether the Qur'an could be used as a guidebook for a hypothetical utopia, but how Islam affects the world around them, or what their lives might be like if Islam gains in influence. When I consider such possibilities, it is with not inconsiderable fear. -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. ",0 "Re: Asimov stamp battin@cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu (Laurence Gene Battin) writes: >Apart from the suggestion that appeared in the letters column of >Skeptical Inquirer recently, has there been any further mention >about a possible Asimov commemorative stamp? If this idea hasn't >been followed up, does anyone know what needs to be done to get >this to happen? I think that its a great idea. Should we start a >petition or something? I believe that there's a 10 year period from time of death until a person can be on a commemorative stamp. It was broken once for Lyndon Johnson (I think) but other than that it has held for awhile. Of course, we can still start now -- the Elvis stamp was petitioned for ages and things really moved once it got past the 10 year anniversary of his death. -- Carl Christensen /~~\_/~\ ,,, Dept. of Computer Science christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu | #=#==========# | Temple University ""Curiouser and curiouser!"" - LC \__/~\_/ ``` Philadelphia, PA USA ",0 "re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption In article clipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement) writes: >Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on > a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation... [etc] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\ Great... nice choice of bad guys to convince everyone how ""bad"" unrestricted encryption is. Why not use a child molester instead? Of course, the word *suspect* is never used here, so I guess these people have already been convicted and are operating this drug ring from their jail cells. How about *this* question instead? Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on a political opponent of a senior administration official and intercepts a conversation... Kinda changes your interpretation of the event, doesn't it? And yes, the presence of the Clipper Chip DOES change things, because it will not only give the people talking on the phone a false sense of security, it will also give federal law enforcement agencies the justification to deny use of strong encryption methods that are inconvenient to them. Dang it all, it's SUPPOSED to be inconvenient (but not impossible). That's the ONLY sure way to make sure that abuses are minimized while still allowing legitimate law enforcement access. >Q: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure > how strong the security is? > >A: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption > systems readily available today. While the algorithm will > remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow > system, we are willing to invite an independent panel of > cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all > potential users that there are no unrecognized > vulnerabilities. Uh huh... sure. I predict that within two months (weeks?) of the chip's debut, the full technical details will be posted to sci.crypt. And if this has ANY impact on the security of the key escrow system, then we've been lied to. Any cryptosystem worth its salt can withstand the light of public scrutiny, and there is NO WAY you can be sure that an algorithm has no ""unrecognized vulnerabilities"" unless you have half the world trying to break it for a decade or so. Even then, you gotta be careful. Michael T. Palmer | ""A man is crazy who writes a secret in any m.t.palmer@larc.nasa.gov | other way than one which will conceal it RIPEM key on server | from the vulgar."" - Roger Bacon, 1220-1292 ",11 "Re: Automatic online encryption of data From: andersom@spot.Colorado.EDU (Marc Anderson) >Also.. how about a box that you plug your phone into, which would allow >encrypted voice communications with someone who has a similar box? >(digitizing input speech, transmitting, and decrypting on the other end). I >don't know how a public-key system could work in this regard, but it might [...] heh heh... I posted this just before reading all the Clinton Chip messages.. I guess they beat me to it.. Anyway, I think it would be a great idea to develop such a product, perhaps in the underground, as it would otherwise probably become illegal pretty quickly here... It's really very feasible and shouldn't be too expensive - all that's needed is a box with a phone jack on one side, a DSP in the middle to do codec functions of speech->compressed bytestream, and an RS232 on the other side. You'd plug your phone into it, plug the RS232 into your computer, and have a good old fashioned normal modem on your other RS232 port. The CPU in the middle would do the encryption with a version of pgp modified to work on a byte stream. With v32bis or better modems to carry the bytestream, it should work. Quality would only be marginally lower than a normal telephone. At the very highest price, you could use one of those voice-mail compatible modems to do the digitisation - that puts an upper bound of about $500 on the cost of such a box. In practice, you really ought to be able to get the price well below $100 - I could do it now in software on my cheap&nasty home RISC box (Acorn Archimedes) with the digitising microphone I bought for 25 pounds, if I knew how to write good speech compression software (which I don't). The reason it won't work of course is that hardly anyone will have one - the only consumer equipment to have encryption will use the wiretap chip. Economics, I'm afraid. However... we can get about 2Kcps throughput on the internet even with the bottleneck of a v32bis modem. When we get ISDN for all (ha ha ha) and the new NREN, it might then be trivial to run compressed speech over a tcp/ip connection on the Internet. Perhaps we should start thinking now of a standard to keep voice on the internet compatible for everyone, and side-step the clipper stuff and use internet for all our phone calls in future :-) [1/2 joking] G ",11 "Re: Gun Buy Back In article <1993Apr22.134330.9761@rti.rti.org> jbs@rti.rti.org writes: > >In article <16BB7BA6A.R1328@vmcms.csuohio.edu> R1328@vmcms.csuohio.edu writes: >>...Gun buyback programs will hopefully >>have an impact on accidental shootings (especially youths), domestic >>disputes where a gun is available in the heat of emotion and anger, and >>maybe keep a few guns from being stolen and later used in street-level >>crime. > >What gives you the idea that gun ""buyback"" programs will have an impact on >any of these things? Evidence, please? > > Please don't misinterret what I was saying Joe. I was making the point tha there is NO evidence of effect of gun buyback programs but hopefully if there is any effect it may prevent injuries or deaths in one of these types of common incidents. >If you're a ""Research Associate"" in ""Urban Child Research,"" then perhaps >you can comment for us on the ratio of the accidental gun death rate to the >rate of accidental death from other single causes? Follow that perhaps >with some sort of justification for the amount of effort that anti-gunners >spend trying to convince the country that accidental gun-related death >among children in the U.S. is a serious problem. > Firearms are the fifth-leading cause of unintentional deaths among children ages 14 and under. I don't understand how the ratio to other accidental deaths is important. So guns don't kill as many children as car accidents. What is the difference in severity between 1,000 deaths and 10,000 deaths? I am not trying to use accidental gun-related deaths among children as a justification for gun control. Who needs to be convinced that accidental gun deaths of children is a serious problem? I assumed that any humane person would be concerned when any 10 year old got hold of their parents gun from their bedroom drawer and accidently blew away one of their friends. >>More than anything, gun buyback programs are symbolic offerings to the >>community. In that sense, I think they might do a little good. > >Please explain why you think ""symbolic offerings"" do good. > My point was, gun buyback programs which are almost always run by police departments MIGHT (I stress might) do a LITTLE (I stress little) good by giving people the impression that the police are attempting to respond to interpersonal gun violence in a unique way. Overall, I thought that I had made it clear that I did not think that gun buyback programs were useful. >>I do know that the vast majority of guns that are used by youths or >>brought to school by youths on a daily basis (about 135,000 youths) are >>obtained easily and quickly, through a personal friend, or more often >>""borrowed"" from a parent without their knowledge. > >I suggest you go back and look at wherever you saw these ""statistics"" - I >suspect you'll find if you look carefully that 135,000 is the number of >students *estimated* to have carried *a weapon* (not necessarily a gun) >to school at least once in the past year, and not the number of students >who carry a gun to school daily. > Well Joe, I suggest that you talk to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence or the Centers for Disease Control. If YOU look carefully you will see that YOU greatly underestimate the presence of guns in the lives of youths. The CPHV reports that 135,000 youth bring GUNS to school DAILY and that 400,000 bring GUNS to school at least once a year. The CDC estimates that 1 out 0f 25 high school students carried a gun to school at least once in 1990. The CDC also says that 1.2 million elementary-aged, latch-key children (kids who come home from school to an empty house), have access to guns in their home. California schools reported a 200% increase in student gun confiscations between 1986 and 1990, and a 40% increase between 1988 and 1990. Florida reported a 61% percent increase in gun incidents in schools between 1986/87 amd 1987/88. These are the ""statistics"". >>thus willing to follow a man who claimed to be the Messiah (Got news >>for you folks, if the Big Cheese was on this crazy planet of ours >>presently, he would NOT be carrying a gun or holding children when they >>were in danger). > >""Holding kids?"" Time for a reality check, son. These kids were the >children of the people inside who believed that the forces of evil were >outside waiting to kill them. Would you send *your* children out the door >if you believed as they did? > Okay, maybe I worded it wrong...DAD. I meant that to put children in a situation (fortified compound) where harm could come to them is not the act of a Messiah in my opinion. I'm not saying that Koresh had control over these children directly, but I would hope that whatever Messiah there is would not let innocent children die. If as he claimed he was the Messiah and people followed him as such, why did he not tell their parents to free the children instead of letting them burn alive? Thanks for the reality check Joe, its been real. Rodney ",16 "Re: diet for Crohn's (IBD) In article <1993Apr22.202051.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>, banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu wrote: > > In article <1r6g8fINNe88@ceti.cs.unc.edu>, jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles) writes: > > > > A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn's > > disease. > > > > But she can't seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables, > > without discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence. > > > > Her question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the > > problems of people with Crohn's disease ? > > > > (I saw the suggestion of lipoxygnase inhibitors like tea and turmeric). > > > > Thanks in advance, > > John Eyles > > All your friend really has to do is find a Registered Dietician(RD). While > most work in hospitals and clinics, many major cities will have RD's who > are in ""private practice"" so to speak. Many physicans will refer their > patients with Crohn's disease to RD's for dietary help. If you can get > your friend's physician to make a referral, medical insurance should pay for > the RD's services just like the services of a physical therapist. The > better medical insurance plans will cover this but even if your friend's > plan doesn't, it would be well worth the cost to get on a good diet to > control the intestinal discomfort and help the intestinal lining heal. > Crohn's disease is an inflammatory disease of the intestinal lining and > lipoxygenase inhibitors may help by decreasing leukotriene formation but > I'm not aware of tea or turmeric containing lipoxygenase inhibitors. For > bad inflammation, steroids are used but for a mild case, the side effects > are not worth the small benefit gained by steroid use. Upjohn is developing > a new lipoxygenase inhibitor that should greatly help deal with > inflammatory diseases but it's not available yet. > > Marty B. Be sure a dietician is up to date on Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis. Previously, low residue diets were recommended, but this advice has now changed. Also, there will be differences in advice in patients with and without obstructuon remaining, so input by the physician will be important. I find the dietician very important in my practice, and I send most of my patients to a dietician in the course of seeing them, since dieticians know so much better how to get diet histories and evaluate the contents of a diet than I do. Steve Holland ",13 "Perstor System Disk Controller information needed Does anybody out there have or used to have an HD controller from Perstor System Inc. (which is out of business I believe)? My friend received an old PC which happens to have such a controller and I am having a hard time trying to add another HD to the card. I believe the controller is supposed to control MFM drives as RLL drives?? Here the model info on the card, but any other similar model will probably do. Perstor System Inc. Model: PS 180-16FN Rev: 2.2 ECN 9-21 I would appreciate your reply directly to my e-mail address below. Thanks, Ray (rngai@oracle.com) -- ( Raymond Ngai ) ( Application System Analyst 300 Oracle Parkway, #670A ) ( Vertical Applications Division Redwood Shores, CA 94065 ) ( Oracle Corporation (415)506-3385 FAX:506-7262 ) ",3 "Re: the usual hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes: >The possession of nuclear arms (actually weapons grade fissionables) is >currently regulated only by market forces. I.e.: To own them you have to >either make them, buy them or steal them. The only thing that stops you >is the staggering cost (more than most nations can afford), the fact that >no one who has them wants to sell to you and the tight security maintained >on existing stocks. (Just ask Saddam Hussein). I was under the impression that to obtain fissionable materials (i.e., plutonium or reactor/weapons-grade uranium) one was required to obtain a federal permit to own such materials. >Given a source of fissionables, you can build a bomb in your garage with >parts from hardware stores and electronic junk supplies. You might have >to engage in some shady dealings to get the explosive charge, but that's >trivial compared to getting the plutonium. The basic information on the >design was declassified years ago and can be dug out of any technical >library by a physics grad student. Actually, why bother looking it up? From the material we covered last term (in 10 weeks) of Ge/Ch 127 (Nuclear Chemistry), I could *derive* what it would take to build a bomb. And as far as the explosive charge, I (as a chemist) could synthesize a variety of explosives from commonly available chemicals in the garage if I felt like. The electronics behind the detonator and the shaped charges are a little trickier, however . . . but not impossible using a few ""tricks of the trade."" And if I really wanted to be nasty, I could include a core of hydrogen and deuterium . . . Of course, the hardest part is getting the fissionable material to start with, and living long enough to put a bomb together. (Plutonium has some *nasty* properties . . .) >The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com) >Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp Laws define crime. >3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (310) 450-9111, x2483 Police enforce laws. >Santa Monica, CA 90405 Citizens prevent crime. aaron arc@cco.caltech.edu ",16 "X11R5 on Solbourne Hi Netters, Having inherited a Solbourne (S-4000 : Sun 4 Compatible), I was wondering if somebody has ported X11R5 to this beast. Since Solbournce Computer Inc. folded up I don't know where I can get the kernel to move from R4. Since they never joined the MIT Consortium, the regular distribution doesn't work. Any pointers will be highly appreciated. Julian -- ______ / /) __/_ // o __ __ (_/ (_(_(/_(_(_<_/ < Julian.Anigbogu@loria.loria.fr ",5 "WACO - Willie Authorizes Cook Out (was Re: FBI Director's Statement) NOTE - local tx groups trimmed out of Newsgroups: line In article <1r23a3$28a@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> D.Nash@utexas.edu (Donald L. Nash) writes: < , cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. No, you were right the first time. Law enforcement agencies should keep <>HIS opinions in mind before breaking into or assaulting ANYBODY'S house. < The BATF came out with horse trailers, 100 men, ninja uniforms, machine <>guns, and stun grenades, and used them before Koresh could even look <>at the warrant. Koresh fought back, and people died. < , mdennie@xerox.com (Matt Dennie) writes: |> In <1993Apr22.125054.17308@linus.mitre.org> cookson@mbunix.mitre.org (Cookson) writes: |> |> >In article <1993Apr22.005459.25142@ttinews.tti.com> paulb@harley.tti.com (Paul Blumstein) writes: |> >> |> >>I've had people in cages wave at me or give me the thumbs up on |> >>occassion. (I always return the wave or thumbs up). That never |> >>happened to me until I started riding Harleys, so that may have |> >>something to do with it. |> >> |> >Ever notice little kid wave more than other bikers? |> ^^^^^^^^^^ |> |> The reactions of little boys seems to be the most enthusiastic to |> a wave (and also good to see). I always wave when I see a kid that |> has at least noticed my bike. I figure it helps the future of the |> sport. Yeah, it's impossible to be a tough biker when a 5 year old starts waving at you. -- =================================================== = The Beav |Mike Beavington| Dod:9733 = = V65Sabre mbeaving@bnr.ca = = My employer has no idea what I'm talking about! = =================================================== ",8 "Seeking All Star game Info OK, OK, OK. First, my apologies for perhaps being untimely with this subject material and perhaps overly optimistic in my request, but here goes anyhow: I'm *very* interested in finding out how I might be able to get two tickets for the All Star game in Baltimore this year. My very aged folks live about 50 miles away and I know it would be a great thing for them to attend the game. I went with them, and my grandfather who got me into baseball as a small child, to the All Star game in DC many years ago. Although I'm now in the SF Bay Area, I'd *love* to be able to treat my folks to this game; it's absolutely the last chance they'd ever have to attend this g ame locally. Any info would be greatly appreciated!!!! Mary Cole mcole@informix.com ",9 "Re: Jewish Baseball Players? In article , Eastgate@world.std.com (Mark Bernstein) says: > >(Which reminds me: do they still serve Kosher hot dogs at the new Comiskey?) > yup. with onions, of all things. bob vesterman. ",9 "Re: PC parallel I (!= I/O) From article , by baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (baden de bari): > erickson@azure.nmt.edu (Alan Erickson) writes: > >> I'm trying to bring in 8+ bits to a PC, and would like >> to use interrupt-driven routines. Without buying an IO >> board or making a new port, _where_ can I bring in these >> bits? LPT seems to have only a few inputs, but I've heard >> rumours that some LPTs have bidirectional lines. Anybody >> know fer sure? If any bi-d LPTs, which boards have them >> (I'll be running a new 386DX-33)? > > > Yes, it is possible. I'm making a 7 stepper controller board, > with 7 digital inputs, and (up to) 18 digital outputs from the // port. > One main thing that will tell you whether the // port is > bi-directional or not is the bus tranceiver on it. Look for a chip > numbered 74LS245. If you don't have this, then it's probably a 74LS244, > which will do you NO good for reading in. > > Now, if you do have the '245 then do the following: > First, find the address of the port, (decimal) either 888, or 632. > In pascal, you would ""Write(Port[xxx]);"" where xxx is the address in > either hex or decimal. The status lines, pins 14, 16, 17, as well as the > strobe, pin 1, are bi-directional lines, and are read by base address +2, > so for 888, to read from status, then read from 890. You can also output > to these lines in the same fashion as to the data lines. In pascal, > do ""Port[xxx]:=value > "". > > Hope this helps. > Let me know if you need more help. > > > _________________________________________________ > Inspiration | ___ | > comes to | \ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca | > those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca | > seek the | /-\ =] Baden de Bari [= | > unknown. | | > ------------------------------------------------- > AS IT HAPPENS, YOU'VE HELPED ME QUITE A BIT. I'M CONSIDERING BUILDING A VERY SIMILAR DEVICE JUST FOR SOMETHING TO DO THIS SUMMER. THE IDEA IS TO CODE THE 8 OUTPUT BITS INTO MULTIPLE 2-BIT CURRENT-AMPLIFIED OUTPUT CHANNELS. SOFTWARE WILL HANDLE THE WAY THE AMPLIFIED OUTPUTS ARE MANIPULATED SO THAT THIS MAGIC BOX CAN HANDLE MORE APPLICATIONS THAN JUST STEPPER MOTORS. ALSO LOOKING FOR A ROBOT ARM (CHEAP) TO ATTACH THIS BOX TO SO I CAN WOW AND IMPRESS MY FRIENDS. ANY HINTS? PETER J DEMKO ME170PJD@UVM.EDU ",12 "Apple CD300 CDROM ""freebies"". In article <1quod6$i3n@menudo.uh.edu>, sunnyt@coding.bchs.uh.edu writes: > ... reseller. I've also heard rumors that they are bundled with a couple of CD's, > but I can't confirm it. > > Sunny ===>sunnyt@dna.bchs.uh.edu I've got two CD300's... The first one i ordered Jan 15, and I received it Feb. 20. The second one I ordered Jan 20th, and I just got it April 2nd or so. Anyway, they both come with 10 misc. CDROMs... Things like a ""Intro to Nautilis"", a sample CD of Kodak pictures, ""From Alice to Ocean"" (a story of a woman who treked across Austrailia), 3 discs from apple, a games disc, an applications disc, and a ""titles"" disc (haven't checked most of these out yet). Also some ""Cinderella"" thing for kids, a disc of Mozart something-or-others, etc. etc. etc. If someone's super interested, I'll make a list of the exact titles and post them. They are all in the category of ""Interesting, but probably fairly useless..."". It was rumored that the earliest units shipped with SOME encyclocpedia (it may have), but neither of my drives had that. -jeff adams- ",4 "Re: Israel: An Apartheid state. In article <1smllm$m06@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes: >In article <1993May10.211316.28455@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> adams@bellini.berkeley.edu (Adam L. Schwartz) writes: >I consider that defining the belonging to a nation that claims the >right to have a State based on religious belief is a form of racism. Although I don't want to muddy the waters unnecessarily I disagree. Any discrimination based on religion is not and cannot be racist unless the sole qualification for religious membership is racial. This is not the case for Israel although it might get a little closer than, say, Islam. This of course raises the vexed question of Church AntiSemitism. Jews have been heavily discriminated against on the grounds of religion in many Christian countries. If we take Russia as an example Jews were seriously persecuted but that persecution in the eyes of the Church and State stopped at the baptismal font. Officially anyway. If a Jew converted there were no legal barriers in his way (that I know of anyway.) Peter the Great's Interior Minister came from such a convert background. Can we then claim that the Russian Orthodox did not teach AntiSemitism and was not AntiSemitic? Similarly for the Roman Catholic Church? I suspect so as this is not a racial 'taint' but one based on belief and AS is after all a form of racism. Well maybe not. What is AntiSemitism then if not something racially based? I wonder if Hitler killed converts of 'pure' German blood. Does anyone know one way or the other? Joseph Askew -- Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud In the autumn stillness, see the Pleiades, jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu Remote in thorny deserts, fell the grief. Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care North of our tents, the sky must end somwhere, Actually, I rather like Brenda Beyond the pale, the River murmurs on. ",17 "Re: USA Today ftp site In article , rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robert Brooks) writes: >wiawkph@dutrun2.tudelft.nl (K.P. Hart) writes: >> Sometime ago someone mentioned an ftp site run by USA Today that should >> give scores for ""last night's"" games. >> Can some kind soul e-mail me that address? >> Please. >> Thanks. If anyone knows of such a site could they please send it to me also. thanks -Dan -ACSDDC@UMASSD.EDU ",9 "Re: The Inimitable Rushdie In article <1993Apr15.135650.28926@st-andrews.ac.uk> nrp@st-andrews.ac.uk (Norman R. Paterson) writes: >I don't think you're right about Germany. My daughter was born there and >I don't think she has any German rights eg to vote or live there (beyond the >rights of all EC citizens). She is a British citizen by virtue of >her parentage, but that's not ""full"" citizenship. For example, I don't think >her children could be British by virtue of her in the same way. I am fairly sure that she could obtain citizenship by making an application for it. It might require immigration to Germany, but I am almost certain that once applied for citizenship is inevitable in this case. >More interesting is your sentence, >>In fact, many people try to come to the US to have their children >>born here so that they will have some human rights. >How does the US compare to an Islamic country in this respect? Do people >go to Iran so their children will have some human rights? Would you? More interesting only for your propaganda purposes. I have said several times now that I don't consider Iran particularly exemplary as a good Islamic state. We might talk about the rights of people in ""capitalist secular"" third world countries to give other examples of the lack of rights in third world countries broadly. Say, for example, Central American secular capitalist countries whose govt's the US supports but who Amnesty International has pointed out are human rights vacua. Gregg ",0 "ATARI 2600 Processors For all people that are interested in every aspect of the 2600 try the zine: 2600 connection $1 cash to : Timothy Duarte PO Box N, 664 Westport, MA 02790 for sample --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PGP key on request. mycal@netacsys.com \ // Mycal's way of skiing moguls: // \ turn, turn, turn, air, survive, survive, survive... No Risk, No Rush ",12 "Re: Abyss-breathing fluids ""The Forever War"", one of my favorite SciFi books, had a passage devoted to breathing fluids. The idea was to protect people from the high accelerations required for interstellar travel by emersing the passengers in dry-cleaning fluid saturated with oxygen. Plenty of very imaginative ideas is this book. I would certainly recommend it (won the Hugo and the Nebula awards). regards Ata <(|)>. ",14 "After all, Armenians exterminated 2.5 million Muslim people there. In article hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian) writes: >article. I have no partisan interests --- I would just like to know >what conversations between TerPetrosyan and Demirel sound like. =) Very simple. ""X-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide against 2.5 million Muslims by admitting to the crime and making reparations to the Turks and Kurds."" After all, your criminal grandparents exterminated 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914 and 1920. hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian) >To which I say: >Hear, hear. Motion seconded. You must be a new 'Arromdian'. You are counting on ASALA/SDPA/ARF crooks and criminals to prove something for you? No wonder you are in such a mess. That criminal idiot and 'its' forged/non-existent junk has already been trashed out by Mutlu, Cosar, Akgun, Uludamar, Akman, Oflazer and hundreds of people. Moreover, ASALA/SDPA/ARF criminals are responsible for the massacre of the Turkish people that also prevent them from entering Turkiye and TRNC. SDPA has yet to renounce its charter which specifically calls for the second genocide of the Turkish people. This racist, barbarian and criminal view has been touted by the fascist x-Soviet Armenian government as merely a step on the road to said genocide. Now where shall I begin? #From: ahmet@eecg.toronto.edu (Parlakbilek Ahmet) #Subject: YALANCI, LIAR : DAVIDIAN #Keywords: Davidian, the biggest liar #Message-ID: <1991Jan10.122057.11613@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> Following is the article that Davidian claims that Hasan Mutlu is a liar: >From: dbd@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian) >Message-ID: <1154@urartu.SDPA.org> >In article <1991Jan4.145955.4478@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ahmet@eecg.toronto. >edu (Ahmet Parlakbilek) asked a simple question: >[AP] I am asking you to show me one example in which mutlu,coras or any other >[AP] Turk was proven to lie.I can show tens of lies and fabrications of >[AP] Davidian, like changing quote , even changing name of a book, Anna. >The obvious ridiculous ""Armenians murdered 3 million Moslems"" is the most >outragious and unsubstantiated charge of all. You are obviously new on this >net, so read the following sample -- not one, but three proven lies in one >day! > - - - start yalanci.txt - - - [some parts are deleted] >In article <1990Aug5.142159.5773@cbnewsd.att.com> the usenet scribe for the >Turkish Historical Society, hbm@cbnewsd.att.com (hasan.b.mutlu), continues to >revise the history of the Armenian people. Let's witness the operational >definition of a revisionist yalanci (or liar, in Turkish): >[Yalanci] According to Leo:[1] >[Yalanci] >[Yalanci] ""The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks >[Yalanci] and on the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding >[Yalanci] their own affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed, >[Yalanci] the war was actually being waged between the Committee of >[Yalanci] Dashnaktsutiun and the Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and >[Yalanci] savage war in defense of party political interests. The Dashnaks >[Yalanci] incited revolts which relied on Russian bayonets for their success."" >[Yalanci] >[Yalanci] [1] L. Kuper, ""Genocide: Its Political Use in the Twentieth Century,"" >[Yalanci] New York 1981, p. 157. >This text is available not only in most bookstores but in many libraries. On >page 157 we find a discussion of related atrocities (which is title of the >chapter). The topic on this page concerns itself with submissions to the Sub- >Commission on Prevention of Discrimination of Minorities of the Commission on >Human Rights of the United Nations with respect to the massacres in Cambodia. >There is no mention of Turks nor Armenians as claimed above. - - - >Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay! >The depth of foolishness the Turkish Historical Society engages in, while >covering up the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, is only surpassed by the >ridiculous ""historical"" material publicly displayed! >David Davidian | The life of a people is a sea, and Receiving this message, I checked the reference, L.Kuper,""Genocide..."" and what I have found was totally consistent with what Davidian said.The book was like ""voice of Armenian revolutionists"" and although I read the whole book, I could not find the original quota. But there was one more thing to check:The original posting of Mutlu.I found the original article of Mutlu.It is as follows: > According to Leo:[1] >""The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks and on > the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding their own > affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed, the war was > actually being waged between the Committee of Dashnaktsutiun and the > Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and savage war in defense of party > political interests. The Dashnaks incited revolts which relied on Russian > bayonets for their success."" >[1] B. A. Leo. ""The Ideology of the Armenian Revolution in Turkey,"" vol II, ====================================================================== > p. 157. ====== QUATO IS THE SAME, REFERENCE IS DIFFERENT ! DAVIDIAN LIED AGAIN, AND THIS TIME HE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL POSTING OF MUTLU JUST TO ACCUSE HIM TO BE A LIAR. Davidian, thank you for writing the page number correctly... You are the biggest liar I have ever seen.This example showed me that tomorrow you can lie again, and you may try to make me a liar this time.So I decided not to read your articles and not to write answers to you.I also advise all the netters to do the same.We can not prevent your lies, but at least we may save time by not dealing with your lies. And for the following line: >Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay! I also return all the insults you wrote about Mutlu to you. I hope you will be drowned in your lies. Ahmet PARLAKBILEK #From: vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Vedat Dogan) #Message-ID: <1993Apr8.233029.29094@news.columbia.edu> In article <1993Apr7.225058.12073@urartu.sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes: >In article <1993Apr7.030636.7473@news.columbia.edu> vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu >(Vedat Dogan) wrote in response to article <1993Mar31.141308.28476@urartu. >11sdpa.org> dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes: > >[(*] Source: ""Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922"" by A. Rawlinson, >[(*] Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) >[(*] (287 pages). > >[DD] Such a pile of garbage! First off, the above reference was first published >[DD] in 1924 NOT 1923, and has 353 pages NOT 287! Second, upon checking page >[DD] 178, we are asked to believe: > >[VD] No, Mr.Davidian ... > >[VD] It was first published IN 1923 (I have the book on my desk,now!) >[VD] ******** > >[VD] and furthermore,the book I have does not have 353 pages either, as you >[VD] claimed, Mr.Davidian..It has 377 pages..Any question?.. > >Well, it seems YOUR book has its total page numbers closer to mine than the n>crap posted by Mr. [(*]! o boy! Please, can you tell us why those quotes are ""crap""?..because you do not like them!!!...because they really exist...why? As I said in my previous posting, those quotes exactly exist in the source given by Serdar Argic .. You couldn't reject it... > >In addition, the Author's Preface was written on January 15, 1923, BUT THE BOOK >was published in 1924. Here we go again.. In the book I have, both the front page and the Author's preface give the same year: 1923 and 15 January, 1923, respectively! (Anyone can check it at her/his library,if not, I can send you the copies of pages, please ask by sct) I really don't care what year it was first published(1923 or 1924) What I care about is what the book writes about murders, tortures,et..in the given quotes by Serdar Argic, and your denial of these quotes..and your groundless accussations, etc. > [...] > >[DD] I can provide .gif postings if required to verify my claim! > >[VD] what is new? > >I will post a .gif file, but I am not going go through the effort to show there >is some Turkish modified re-publication of the book, like last time! I claim I have a book in my hand published in 1923(first publication) and it exactly has the same quoted info as the book published in 1934(Serdar Argic's Reference) has..You couldn't reject it..but, now you are avoiding the real issues by twisting around.. Let's see how you lie!..(from 'non-existing' quotes to re-publication) First you said there was no such a quote in the given reference..You called Serdar Argic a liar!.. I said to you, NO, MR.Davidian, there exactly existed such a quote... (I even gave the call number, page numbers..you could't reject it.) And now, you are lying again and talking about ""modified,re-published book"" (without any proof :how, when, where, by whom, etc..).. (by the way, how is it possible to re-publish the book in 1923 if it was first published in 1924(your claim).I am sure that you have some 'pretty well suited theories', as usual) And I am ready to send the copies of the necessary pages to anybody who wants to compare the fact and Mr.Davidian's lies...I also give the call number and page numbers again for the library use, which are: 949.6 R 198 and the page numbers to verify the quotes:218 and 215 > >It is not possible that [(*]'s text has 287 pages, mine has 353, and yours has >377! Now, are you claiming that there can't be such a reference by saying ""it is not possible..."" ..If not, what is your point? Differences in the number of pages? Mine was published in 1923..Serdar Argic's was in 1934.. No need to use the same book size and the same letter charachter in both publications,etc, etc.. does it give you an idea!! The issue was not the number of pages the book has..or the year first published.. And you tried to hide the whole point.. the point is that both books have the exactly the same quotes about how moslems are killed, tortured,etc by Armenians..and those quotes given by Serdar Argic exist!! It was the issue, wasn't-it? you were not able to object it...Does it bother you anyway? You name all these tortures and murders (by Armenians) as a ""crap"".. People who think like you are among the main reasons why the World still has so many ""craps"" in the 1993. Any question? hovig@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hovig Heghinian) > Hmm ... Turks sure know how to keep track of deaths, but they seem to >lose count around 1.5 million. Well, apparently we have another son of Dro 'the Butcher' to contend with. You should indeed be happy to know that you rekindled a huge discussion on distortions propagated by several of your contemporaries. If you feel that you can simply act as an Armenian governmental crony in this forum you will be sadly mistaken and duly embarrassed. This is not a lecture to another historical revisionist and a genocide apologist, but a fact. I will dissect article-by-article, paragraph-by-paragraph, line-by-line, lie-by-lie, revision-by-revision, written by those on this net, who plan to 'prove' that the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds is nothing less than a classic un-redressed genocide. We are neither in x-Soviet Union, nor in some similar ultra-nationalist fascist dictatorship, that employs the dictates of Hitler to quell domestic unrest. Also, feel free to distribute all responses to your nearest ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists, the Armenian pseudo-scholars, or to those affiliated with the Armenian criminal organizations. Armenian government got away with the genocide of 2.5 million Turkish men, women and children and is enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and those like you, will not get away with the genocide's cover-up. Not a chance. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Quadra 800 configurations?? I've noticed some of you mentioning owning a Quadra 800 8/230 with CD300 and 1meg of VRAM. It seems that this configuration was purchased complete; that is, the CD300 and VRAM were already installed in the box. I am interested in that exact configuration and will be buying with an educational discount but have not found the CD300 bundled with any Q800 smaller than the 8/500. If you bought or know how to buy the 8/230 with CD installed, please let me know what you know via email: send messages to dmaluso@mhc.mtholyoke.edu Thanks, all. Diane Maluso =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Diane Maluso INTERNET: dmaluso@mhc.mtholyoke.edu = = Department of Psychology and Education = = Mount Holyoke College = = South Hadley, MA 01075 = = (413) 538-2107 = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",4 "*** New Computer Books for Sale *** Hi! I have several computer related books for sale. They are all new, unused and hence in excellent condition. The subjects include Programming Languages (C, C++, LISP, PROLOG), Operating Systems (UNIX, DOS), Windows, X-Windows, LAN, AI, and Expert Systems. If you are interested, pls. contact me at: parikhma@ucunix.san.uc.edu Thanks. -M. Parikh ",6 "Re: Pink Noise In sci.electronics, wayne@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (Tony Wayne) writes: >What is Pink noise and how is it used in sound experiments? Pink noise has constant power per geometric frequency increment (octave, 1/3 octave, etc). Thus the 10kHz-20kHz octave has the same amount of noise power as the 10Hz-20Hz octave. White noise has constant power per arithmetic frequency increment (Hz, kHz, etc). Thus the 10kHz-10.1kHz band has the same amount of noise power as the 10Hz-110Hz band (both bands are 100Hz wide). Pink noise can be made by passing white noise thru a -3db/octave filter (usually approximated by a network of several RC pairs). Note: you can't get -3db/octave by using half a -6db/octave network :-( Pink noise is commonly used in audio power response measurements. It shows up on audio spectrum analyzers (with octave-related bands) as a flat line across the bands. DaveP ",12 "New Clipper Chip Proposal from the Guv... I saw this article posted in a local newsgroup. I haven't seen it, or any followup traffic relating to it in these groups or other groups which I subscribe to. So, I am posting it here so others can read it, check it out, and comment on it, and provide ideas for handling these sorts of things. I have no verification to the accuracy or lack of accuracy of this article, but if accurate, I find it extremely disturbing, especially in light of various abuses of the SSN number regarding privacy, (I understand it is now to be required in CA to renew a drivers license, or to register a car) and other proposals regarding 'smart' national Identity Cards, wiretap proposals, and such. One simply wonders what other gems are in the wings ready to be sprung on the people by our government. Perhaps suggestions and ideas for preventing this and other such proposals from acquiring the force of law would be useful. The cost simply outweighs any possible benefits, IMO. BTW, reading this makes me think of some ideas a Prof Denning has been promoting, in an even more disturbing form. That said, with no further comment, the article follows: ------------ Begin included article --------- Note: This file will also be available via anonymous file transfer from csrc.ncsl.nist.gov in directory /pub/nistnews and via the NIST Computer Security BBS at 301-948-5717. --------------------------------------------------- THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 16, 1993 STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY The President today announced a new initiative that will bring the Federal Government together with industry in a voluntary program to improve the security and privacy of telephone communications while meeting the legitimate needs of law enforcement. The initiative will involve the creation of new products to accelerate the development and use of advanced and secure telecommunications networks and wireless communications links. For too long there has been little or no dialogue between our private sector and the law enforcement community to resolve the tension between economic vitality and the real challenges of protecting Americans. Rather than use technology to accommodate the sometimes competing interests of economic growth, privacy and law enforcement, previous policies have pitted government against industry and the rights of privacy against law enforcement. Sophisticated encryption technology has been used for years to protect electronic funds transfer. It is now being used to protect electronic mail and computer files. While encryption technology can help Americans protect business secrets and the unauthorized release of personal information, it also can be used by terrorists, drug dealers, and other criminals. A state-of-the-art microcircuit called the ""Clipper Chip"" has been developed by government engineers. The chip represents a new approach to encryption technology. It can be used in new, relatively inexpensive encryption devices that can be attached to an ordinary telephone. It scrambles telephone communications using an encryption algorithm that is more powerful than many in commercial use today. This new technology will help companies protect proprietary information, protect the privacy of personal phone conversations and prevent unauthorized release of data transmitted electronically. At the same time this technology preserves the ability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to intercept lawfully the phone conversations of criminals. A ""key-escrow"" system will be established to ensure that the ""Clipper Chip"" is used to protect the privacy of law-abiding Americans. Each device containing the chip will have two unique 2 ""keys,"" numbers that will be needed by authorized government agencies to decode messages encoded by the device. When the device is manufactured, the two keys will be deposited separately in two ""key-escrow"" data bases that will be established by the Attorney General. Access to these keys will be limited to government officials with legal authorization to conduct a wiretap. The ""Clipper Chip"" technology provides law enforcement with no new authorities to access the content of the private conversations of Americans. To demonstrate the effectiveness of this new technology, the Attorney General will soon purchase several thousand of the new devices. In addition, respected experts from outside the government will be offered access to the confidential details of the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report their findings. The chip is an important step in addressing the problem of encryption's dual-edge sword: encryption helps to protect the privacy of individuals and industry, but it also can shield criminals and terrorists. We need the ""Clipper Chip"" and other approaches that can both provide law-abiding citizens with access to the encryption they need and prevent criminals from using it to hide their illegal activities. In order to assess technology trends and explore new approaches (like the key-escrow system), the President has directed government agencies to develop a comprehensive policy on encryption that accommodates: -- the privacy of our citizens, including the need to employ voice or data encryption for business purposes; -- the ability of authorized officials to access telephone calls and data, under proper court or other legal order, when necessary to protect our citizens; -- the effective and timely use of the most modern technology to build the National Information Infrastructure needed to promote economic growth and the competitiveness of American industry in the global marketplace; and -- the need of U.S. companies to manufacture and export high technology products. The President has directed early and frequent consultations with affected industries, the Congress and groups that advocate the privacy rights of individuals as policy options are developed. 3 The Administration is committed to working with the private sector to spur the development of a National Information Infrastructure which will use new telecommunications and computer technologies to give Americans unprecedented access to information. This infrastructure of high-speed networks (""information superhighways"") will transmit video, images, HDTV programming, and huge data files as easily as today's telephone system transmits voice. Since encryption technology will play an increasingly important role in that infrastructure, the Federal Government must act quickly to develop consistent, comprehensive policies regarding its use. The Administration is committed to policies that protect all Americans' right to privacy while also protecting them from those who break the law. Further information is provided in an accompanying fact sheet. The provisions of the President's directive to acquire the new encryption technology are also available. For additional details, call Mat Heyman, National Institute of Standards and Technology, (301) 975-2758. --------------------------------- QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION'S TELECOMMUNICATIONS INITIATIVE Q: Does this approach expand the authority of government agencies to listen in on phone conversations? A: No. ""Clipper Chip"" technology provides law enforcement with no new authorities to access the content of the private conversations of Americans. Q: Suppose a law enforcement agency is conducting a wiretap on a drug smuggling ring and intercepts a conversation encrypted using the device. What would they have to do to decipher the message? A: They would have to obtain legal authorization, normally a court order, to do the wiretap in the first place. They would then present documentation of this authorization to the two entities responsible for safeguarding the keys and obtain the keys for the device being used by the drug smugglers. The key is split into two parts, which are stored separately in order to ensure the security of the key escrow system. Q: Who will run the key-escrow data banks? A: The two key-escrow data banks will be run by two independent entities. At this point, the Department of Justice and the Administration have yet to determine which agencies will oversee the key-escrow data banks. Q: How strong is the security in the device? How can I be sure how strong the security is? A: This system is more secure than many other voice encryption systems readily available today. While the algorithm will remain classified to protect the security of the key escrow system, we are willing to invite an independent panel of cryptography experts to evaluate the algorithm to assure all potential users that there are no unrecognized vulnerabilities. Q: Whose decision was it to propose this product? A: The National Security Council, the Justice Department, the Commerce Department, and other key agencies were involved in this decision. This approach has been endorsed by the President, the Vice President, and appropriate Cabinet officials. Q: Who was consulted? The Congress? Industry? A: We have on-going discussions with Congress and industry on encryption issues, and expect those discussions to intensify as we carry out our review of encryption policy. We have briefed members of Congress and industry leaders on the decisions related to this initiative. Q: Will the government provide the hardware to manufacturers? A: The government designed and developed the key access encryption microcircuits, but it is not providing the microcircuits to product manufacturers. Product manufacturers can acquire the microcircuits from the chip manufacturer that produces them. Q: Who provides the ""Clipper Chip""? A: Mykotronx programs it at their facility in Torrance, California, and will sell the chip to encryption device manufacturers. The programming function could be licensed to other vendors in the future. Q: How do I buy one of these encryption devices? A: We expect several manufacturers to consider incorporating the ""Clipper Chip"" into their devices. Q: If the Administration were unable to find a technological solution like the one proposed, would the Administration be willing to use legal remedies to restrict access to more powerful encryption devices? A: This is a fundamental policy question which will be considered during the broad policy review. The key escrow mechanism will provide Americans with an encryption product that is more secure, more convenient, and less expensive than others readily available today, but it is just one piece of what must be the comprehensive approach to encryption technology, which the Administration is developing. The Administration is not saying, ""since encryption threatens the public safety and effective law enforcement, we will prohibit it outright"" (as some countries have effectively done); nor is the U.S. saying that ""every American, as a matter of right, is entitled to an unbreakable commercial encryption product."" There is a false ""tension"" created in the assessment that this issue is an ""either-or"" proposition. Rather, both concerns can be, and in fact are, harmoniously balanced through a reasoned, balanced approach such as is proposed with the ""Clipper Chip"" and similar encryption techniques. Q: What does this decision indicate about how the Clinton Administration's policy toward encryption will differ from that of the Bush Administration? A: It indicates that we understand the importance of encryption technology in telecommunications and computing and are committed to working with industry and public-interest groups to find innovative ways to protect Americans' privacy, help businesses to compete, and ensure that law enforcement agencies have the tools they need to fight crime and terrorism. Q: Will the devices be exportable? Will other devices that use the government hardware? A: Voice encryption devices are subject to export control requirements. Case-by-case review for each export is required to ensure appropriate use of these devices. The same is true for other encryption devices. One of the attractions of this technology is the protection it can give to U.S. companies operating at home and abroad. With this in mind, we expect export licenses will be granted on a case-by-case basis for U.S. companies seeking to use these devices to secure their own communications abroad. We plan to review the possibility of permitting wider exportability of these products. ----------- End included article ----------- -- pat@rwing.uucp [Without prejudice UCC 1-207] (Pat Myrto) Seattle, WA If all else fails, try: ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!pat WISDOM: ""Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."" - Albert Einstien ",11 "Re: 2% silver solder In article <199304251131.AA08572@dec3100a> shiekh@ictp.trieste.it (Andy Shiekh) writes: > > I have seen the existance of electronics solder with a 2% silver >content that seems to have good wetting and fatique reatings. > Can anyone tell me why it is not used? (silver is not such an expensive >metal). > From ""Management of Electronics Assembly"" (Ian Oakes) After talking about 63/37 tin lead alloy and the eutectic point... ""Occasionally, impurities may be added to solder, to vary charactersitics within the soldering process in an attempt to improve performance. For example, addition of small quantities of antimony and copper can reduce the amount solder moves under stress when solid. For particular applications additions of impurities may be warranted but, in general, it is best to keep the solder used in a soldering process as pure as possible."" I guess this is the good oil for commercial operations, but it doesn't mention anything esoteric. leon ",12 "Re: Products to handle HDTV moving pircture (180MB/sec) kazsato@twics.co.jp writes: >I'd like to know if there is any system (CPU + HD array + framebuffer) >which can play and record HDTV quality moving picture in realtime. > >HDTV has about 6MB/frame, so recording/playing moving picture will need >about 180MB/sec bandwidth. I'm thinking to treat the raw data.. not >compressed. Actually, for digital HDTV systems that's far higher bandwidth than you need, unless there's some reason you must work in fully-uncompressed HDTV. Also, my calculations is that each frame should be well under 6MB, even using 24 bits/pixel (which is more bits than you actually need - 15 or 18 should be enough for a moving picture). 1600x1100x16bits is 3.5MB (I'm guessing at HDTV resolution - it may be a bit wider than 1600, I'm fairly sure of the 1100 number for most of the digital proposals). I hope you have a very fast memory system as well - 180MB/s while displaying will require a heavily interleaved VRAM system. Unless you have a _very_ compelling reason, I'd advise trying to use at least somewhat compressed data. You don't have to go to full compression to get to a level where the data IO requirements are much cheaper and easier to deal with. -- GNU Emacs is a LISP operating system disguised as a word processor. - Doug Mohney, in comp.arch Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering. jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com or rutgers!cbmvax!jesup BIX: rjesup Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion. ",1 "Can anyone give me WD-1002-27X jumper settings? I have a ST138 RLL hard drive and I have just got another 32M hard drive. The controller in my machine is a WD-1002-27X. Can a kind soul please mail me or tell me how to get jumper settings for that board? I really appreciate this. Thanks in advance. Jerry -- ""Look ma! No .signature!"" ",3 "Re: How does a pitcher get a save? mikef@bvc.edu writes: >In article <1993Apr23.135139.18749@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes: >> The subject line says it all. What is the rule that qualifies >> a pitcher as making a save? >IMHO this is the most untrustworthy, silly stat, by today's rules, in all >of baseball. My understanding is to qualify as a save a pitcher cannot >pitch more than three innings and the potential tying run must at least >appear in the on-deck circle. Also, the lead a pitcher enters with cannot >excede three runs. This is a phenomenon known around work as ready-fire-aim. I am astounded at the number of times people post strong opinions about things they not only don't understand but publicly admit to not understanding. In fact, there's a plausible argument that saves are a more rational stat than wins. For the record, there are two ways that a reliever can get a save: He must finish the game and either 1. have entered the game with the tying run on base, at bat, or on deck. 2. have pitched at least three innings effectively. A pitcher may not get a win and a save in the same game. >I believe that the official scorers must assert more of their authority in >determining winners/savers/etc. For instance, a pitcher can come in in the >ninth with a lead, blow the lead, fall behind, have his team come back in >the next half inning and earn the win. Has this pitcher earned a win, no >way. But this is an argument that *wins* is a dumb stat, not saves. >I guy could pitch five strong innings of middle relief and see his >teammates rally to tie the score. Assume he came in to start the fourth >and left after the eighth. His teammate holds the opposition scoreless in >the ninth and they score a run in the bottom of the ninth to win. The >third pitcher earns the win and the middle reliever gets no ""stat"" >satisfaction. This again doesn't support your claim about saves at the beginning of your post. Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com Conceptual integrity is the most important consideration in system design. - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr., The Mythical Man-Month ",9 "Quadra clock chip - followup My recently modified Quadra 700 with a socket for clock oscillators has now completed nearly 40 hours of error free operation at 32 mhz (with a 64 mhz clock oscillator). I have also tried a 55 mhz CMOS clock and that works as well. On the more stupid side, I've discovered you can use a 40 mhz clock and make your Q700 as slow as a Centris 610. However, a 25 mhz clock which would have yielded a 12.5 mhz Quadra 700 (Who'd want one?) didn't work at all. Impatiently awaiting a 66 mhz clock, Guy Kuo ",4 "Re: BUFFALO 4, Boston 0: Defense!! I'm personally expecting Moog. Blue played fairly decent (alright spectacular at times) in his 1/2 a game but Moog has the experience. What Did Blue have going for him, nothing, What would happen in a Tie game, the prssure is then on the Goal tender to insure that you keep the puck out (at the very least until your team scores) Blue didn't face that kind of pressure on Tuesday. The Bruins will come out storming that is for sure. I really think that this series is up to Buffalo, Boston (except for two bad passes in game one) really hasn't played that bad , As a believer is statistics, you know that your going to get the puck by fuhr sooner or later, just keep shooting. There game plan is sound but they need to take the lead first, and control the tempo..... IMHO Pat Ellis P.S. GO BRUINS GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS 42-1-2 NUMBER 1...... HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS..... HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>...... PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER....... NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! M-A-I-N-E GGGGOOOOOOO BBBLLLUUEEEE! ",10 "Re: Keyboard mapping and window placement questions > If I use Xt, all > O'Reilly has to say is '...is automatically handled by Xt...'. If I use Xlib, ala XNextEvent(), I get nothing. This all stems from problems with users of > the Sun 4/5 keyboard and the NumLock; plus various Alt/Meta/etc. modifier > requirements. That's not all it says. The coverage of modifiers is in Chapter 8 of Volume Four (or chap 7 in older Athena editions), where there is about 10 pages on how to specify translations to capture various combinations of keys or buttons. The Xlib route uses XLookupString and there is a lot of coverage of how that works in Volume One, chapter 9. You should read this to understand how all the mappings work before trying to do anything complicated. Adrian Nye O'Reilly and Associates ",5 "Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon In article <1993Apr19.220321.4565@research.nj.nec.com>, behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes... #In article <1993Apr16.160825.25622@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes: #>In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com> #>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes: #>> ... #>> Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for #>> R12. You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning #>Society #>> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per #>> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash #>those #>> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very #>shaky #>> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst). #>> ... #> #>Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes #>exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies #>keep us all from getting. # # It sounds crazy, but it's true. One of the best R-12 subsitutes, #GHG-12, is currently a commercial product. Unfortunately, the SAE committee #on mobile air conditioning is comprised almost exclusively of MACS members. #Such being the case, no papers about any alternative refrigerant other than #R-134a have been accepted for review/publication. # # Yo, John? You want to provide some more details? Or should I just #repost your voluminous repost? # #Later, #-- #Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady #behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike #Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name #agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. We here are *VERY* interested in info on R12 substitutes (in fact I think we really need all the info on this we can get). I would really appreciate technical, supply, and hardware-upgrade details. Also, R12 is a useful solvent/reagent in the extraction/production of certain pharmaceuticals. Any info on the substitutes' corresponding usefullness? I am currently working with the local engineers who are making sure we are compliant with the regulations. The trouble with regulations is that they only tell you what you are no longer permitted to do, not what you should do instead. I think the cause of the new regulations is the Montreal Protocol which has a definite CFC-phase-out schedule. (Of course the cause of the Montreal Protocol was all the research done on the causes of the Ozone Depletion Problem.) Someone asked earlier about why the governments were working so fast to ban the ozone-depleting (CFC) chemicals and not gasolines and other greenhouse-gas-producing compounds. The greenhouse effect (produced by infrared-trapping gasses like CO2 and methane) and the ozone-hole problem (produced by long-lived, chlorine-containing molecules) are not the same thing. It is a lot easier to do something about not using the CFC's (chloro-fluorocarbons) than it is to stop producing CO2 and methane which are natural byproducts of combustion and of living (animal) organisms. Planting more trees and not destroying so many existing trees would help the greenhouse-gas problem, but would do nothing for the ozone problem. Fred W. Bach , Operations Group | Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility) | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 327/278 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question. They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers. ",7 "Re: what are the problems with nutrasweet (aspartame) hbloom@moose.uvm.edu (*Heather*) writes: >Nutrasweet is a synthetic sweetener a couple thousand times sweeter than >sugar. Some people are concerned about the chemicals that the body produces >when it degrades nutrasweet. It is thought to form formaldehyde and known to >for methanol in the degredation pathway that the body uses to eliminate >substances. The real issue is whether the levels of methanol and formaldehyde >produced are high enough to cause significant damage, as both are toxic to >living cells. All I can say is that I will not consume it. >Phenylalanine is >nothing for you to worry about. It is an amino acid, and everyone uses small >quantities of it for protein synthesis in the body. Some people have a disease >known as phenylketoneurea, and they are missing the enzyme necessary to >degrade this compound and eliminate it from the body. For them, it will >accumulate in the body, and in high levels this is toxic to growing nerve >cells. Therefore, it is Only a major problem in young children (until around >age 10 or so) or women who are pregnant and have this disorder. It used to >be a leading cause of brain damage in infants, but now it can be easily >detected at birth, and then one must simply avoid comsumption of phenylalanine >as a child, or when pregnant. >-heather If I remember rightly PKU syndrome in infants is about 1/1200 ? They lack two genes. And people who lack one gene are supposed to be 1/56 persons? Those with PKU have to avoid naturally occuring phenylalanine. And those who only have one gene and underproduce whatever it is they are supposed to be producing are supposed to be less tolerant of aspartame. The methol, formaldahyde thing was supposed to occur with heating? I don't drink it. I figure sugar was made for a reason. To quickly and easily satiate hungry people. If you don't need the calories it's just as easy to drink water. Used to drink a six pack a aday of aspartame soda. Don't even drink one coke a day when sugared. ",13 "Need graph display/edit I am looking for a program that is capable of displaying a graph with nodes and links and with the possibility to edit interactively the graph : add one node, change one link etc... Actually, a very _simple_ X11 program would be ok; all I need is to put some ""boxes"" (i.e. the nodes ) on a pane and be able to manipulate them with the mouse (move, add or delete boxes). Does anyone know if such program is available ? Thanks for any help !! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Loris RENGGLI phone : +41-21-6934230 Swiss Federal Institute of Technology fax : +41-21-6934303 Math. Dept CH-1015 Lausanne (Switzerland) e-mail : renggli@masg1.epfl.ch ",1 "Duo Dock problems Has anyone had any problems with their Duo Dock not ejecting the Duo properly? When I first got it, the Duo would come out of the Dock a couple of inches when ejected, and I had to pull it the rest of the way. Nowadays (and I've had the system for 4 months), the Duo doesn't come out *at* *all* - despite the fact that the mechanism makes all the appropriate noises, and I have to grab hold of it and pull it out myself. Is there a simple fix for this, or do I have to return it to my Apple Dealer, where it will languish for weeks while I have to make do with no colour display, no VRAM, no floppy or SCSI etc. (BTW, it's not that the Duo is locked into the Dock - it just doesn't want to slide out any more). -- Phil Jimmieson, *********************************************** Computer Science Dept., * JANET : phil@uk.ac.liv.csc * Liverpool University, * INTERNET : phil@csc.liv.ac.uk * PO Box 147 *********************************************** Liverpool L69 3BX ""I was head over heels in love until I got cramp"" (UK) 051-794-3689 ",4 "Re: FJ1100/1200 Owners: Tankbag Suggestions Wanted In article <1993Apr21.205306.3033@rd.hydro.on.ca> jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes: >The Nelson Rigg bag has 5, and the side ones can be used or not, depending >on the load. Using just the three is super convenient, and the extra two are >great for carrying beer concentrate, bricks or reports written by overpaid >consultants. Quit keeping us in suspense: who sells this remarkable bag? Later, -- Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: #In article <1qkhju$43c@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #> Truth is better than falsehood, # # So, if you were housing a Jew in your home in Holand, 1942; and #the SS troopers asks if you are housing a Jew, is it objectively better to #tell the truth, "" I am holding a Jew "", than a falsehood, "" No I am not #holding a Jew""? # # In this case, let us assume that if you lie, the SS trooper leaves, #never to bother you. Either way, nothing is ever done to you- no prison, #trouble, etc. # # Of course, if you tell the truth, then the Jew will be executed. # # Is it better to tell the truth, or lie? Good question, my point was that a world with truth is better than a world with falsehood. A world in which it were possible to say ""yes, I am holding a Jew"" (the truth) and you, me, the Jew, and the SS guy all sit down to crack open a bottle of whiskey is better than the grim alternatives you present. Obviously, this is not possible, and the best alternative seems to be to lie. That's because other values are involved, such as life. Now that IS just my opinion - don't confuse the claim 'objective morality exists' with the claim 'I have a lock on morals'. N.B., sir, I could have responded with 'according to you, truth does not exist, therefore it is impossible to tell it. What is true for you may not be true for me'. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: How to speed up games (marginally realistic) In article , ez027993@chip.ucdavis.edu (Gary Built Like Villanueva Huckabay) writes: |> You want to speed up ballgames? |> |> 3. Mandate a rule permitting only N seconds between pitches (the current |> rule is too lenient), and then enforce it. Fifteen seconds is more |> than enough time. If the pitch isn't released in 15, call it a ball, |> and restart the clock. |> I remember a post from last year indicating that a ""pitch clock"" was tried in one of the minor leagues some time back and did not work. I don't remember why they said that it did not work. Anyone remember this? Jody McDonnel on WIP in Phil. has been saying that a pitch clock was inevitable. How would a pitch clock work on throws to first? Another pair of suggestions: 1. Remove the Balk rule. It is the runners responsibility to stay ""safe"" no matter what the pitcher does. 2. If a pitcher throws to an occupied base more than X time (X = 3 to 5) without successfully picking off the runner, the runner advances a base as if walked. The no-balk seems to give the pitcher the advantage. The base-walk allows the runner to ""challenge"" pitcher to throw over to the base. |> Baseball games take about 2:51 in the NL, and just a shade under 3 hours |> in the AL. That's just too damn long. I don't like to PLAY in 3 hour |> games, much less WATCH a game for that long. My butt falls asleep, and |> if I'm watching on TV, I'll channel surf between pitches, catching |> colorized versions of Mr. Ed, Leave it to Beaver, and ""Those Wacky |> Nieporents"" on Nick at Nite. I too, find myself surfing when I know that it will be enough time between each pitch to allow the batter to adjust his ""jewlery"". |> |> |> -- |> * Gary Huckabay * ""You think that's loud enough, a$$hole?"" * |> * ""Movie Rights * ""Well, if you're having trouble hearing it, sir, * |> * available thru * I'd be happy to turn it up for you. I didn't * |> * Ted Frank."" * know that many people your age liked King's X."" * David Madden ",9 "screen capture Is there a DOS screen capture utility -- PD or shareware -- that will work reliably with VESA 6a 800x600 screens? Thanks, H.W. Stockman, hwstock@sandia.llnl.gov ",1 "Re: [soc.motss, et al.] ""Princeton axes matching funds for Boy Scouts"" In article <1pmjo8INN2l0@lynx.unm.edu> bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician) writes: Just what do gay people do that straight people don't? Absolutely nothing. I'm a VERY straight(as an arrow), 17-year old male that is involved in the BSA. I don't care what gay people do among each other, as long as they don't make passes at me or anything. At my summer camp where I work, my boss is gay. Not in a 'pansy' way of gay (I know a few), but just 'one of the guys'. He doesn't push anything on me, and we give him the same respect back, due to his position. If anything, the BSA has taught me, I don't know, tolerance or something. Before I met this guy, I thought all gays were 'faries'. So, the BSA HAS taught me to be an antibigot. Basically, It comes down to this: What you do among yourself is your own business. No one else has the right to tell you otherwise, unless it violates someone else's civil rights. ",0 "Re: Microsoft DOS 6.0 Upgrade for sale In article , hatton@socrates.ucsf.edu (Tom Hatton) writes... #adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes: #>So, does anyone care to enlighten us whether DOS6.0 is worth upgrading to? #>How good is it's compression, and can it be turned on/off at will? #>Any other nice/nasty features? # #According to reports, if you don't have DOS yet, and don't have any #utilities (QEMM, Stacker, PCTools, Norton, ...) then DOS6 may be worth it. #For people who have DOS5, and some sort of utility, DOS6 doesn't offer #much. You'd never know it from the usual hype that marketing is able #to create, however. :-) IMHO, it seems to be worth the $40 to upgrade. DoubleSpace seems a bit saner than Stacker 2.0 (which I've replaced). MemMaker is nowhere near as aggressive as QEMM, but it doesn't hose my system like QEMM did (at least it hasn't yet). Microsoft AntiVirus is just the latest version (or a reasonably recent one) of CPAV - mine was very aged, so this was quite welcome. MS-DOS 6.0 ain't the end all, be all of operating systems - but it's better than a sharp stick in the eye, unless you happen to be into that sort of thing. :-) Lee Preimesberger st1g9@jetson.uh.edu ----- Undergraduate Scum ----- University of Houston, USA ******** ""There is freedom of choice for every choice but mine."" ",6 "Re: Floorplan layout program? In article 737316832@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca, GMILLS@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Phil Trodwell) writes: >Hi, I'm desperately seeking a (preferably shareware) program to assist in >the architectural layout of a house floorplan. Does something like this >exist other than basic CAD programs? > >Please e-mail; I don't always get to the news before it expires. > >Thanks in advance, > >Phil Trodwell > The best I've seen is Visio. Runs under Windows. It's not shareware however. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Gary Williamson aka wwilliam@polaris.orl.mmc.com Orlando, Florida ----------------------------------------------------------------- ",2 "Re: Eternal Marriage hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal F Lillywhite) writes: >In article dhammers@pacific.? >(David Hammerslag) writes: > >>This paragraph brought to mind a question. How do you (Mormons) reconcile >>the idea of eternal marriage with Christ's statement that in the ressurection >>people will neither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)? > >[deletions] > >I think what Jesus is saying here (and it is clearest in Matthew's >and Mark's accounts) is that marriages will not be performed in the >resurrection. This goes along with our belief that if a person is >to marry at all it must be done on this earth... [deletions] The problem with this view is that the topic under discussion in this passage *is* marriages that were performed on earth. Jesus' words seem to me to indicate that He regards His response as the answer to their question about which earthly marriage would be valid after the resurrection. This being the case, the most straightforward interpretation, in my opinion, is that marriage does not exist in the next life because those who are raised are of a different nature than what we are now. Other- wise, why would Jesus offer ""but are like the angels in heaven"" as a contrast to the idea of the resurrected marrying and being given in marriage? We do not have angel-like natures now, but someday we shall, and when we do, our earthly marriages will be irrelevant. Or at least, that's what I think Jesus is saying about the post-resurrection validity of marriages performed on earth. Your mileage may vary. :) - Mark ",15 "xwd segmentation fault I was planning to use the following pipe to move some display data to a system that has a color hardcopy unit: xwd | xwud -display hostname:0.0 I had tested it with some simple windows like the OpenWindows file manager, and it worked fine, but when I tried it with a more complex (larger) image, the xwd part blew up with a segmentation fault. I tried it without the pipe, by redirecting xwd's output to a file and then used the file as input to xwud and got the same error from xwud. If I had to guess, it seems like it's running out of memory, but this happened on a SPARC 10 with 64 megs, 128 meg swap space, and only one user with minimal activity. The file was about 3 MB. This verion of xwd/xwud was supplied with the Sun OpenWindows 3.0 distribution which I believe corresponds to X11 R4. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Humes | Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (410) 792-6651 | humesdg1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",5 "Re: 2% silver solder Andy Shiekh (shiekh@ictp.trieste.it) wrote: : I have seen the existance of electronics solder with a 2% silver : content that seems to have good wetting and fatique reatings. : Can anyone tell me why it is not used? (silver is not such an expensive : metal). : : : Andy : For the most part, silver-solder is not used for general soldering tasks due to the mechanism of dendritic growth. Silver-solder, when exposed to high humidity and placed in an electric field, will actually grow dendrites which are conductive and will adventually electrically short across closely spaced nodes which are creating the field. For this reason, silver is allowed only in hermetically sealed assemblies. Fortunatly, tin-lead solder is quite stable and will not grow dendrites as fast as silver-solder. Therefore, it is used extensively. Jerry Long long@spk.hp.com **************************************** Disclaimer.... Opinions are my own and do NOT reflect those of my employer. **************************************** ",12 "Re: ..Image processing Packages under X.. Prateek Mishra (mishra@cs.sunysb.edu) wrote: : I am looking for a package that implements standard : image processing functions (reading/writing from : standard formats), clipping, zoom, etc. implemented : under X. Both public domain and private packages : are of interest. The particular application area I : have in mind is medical imaging, but a package meant : for a more general context would be acceptable. : Please reply to me; I will summarize on the net if : there is general interest. : - prateek mishra : mishra@sbcs.sunysb.edu keep tabs with the FAQ in sci.image.processing. There is quite a comprehensive compilation of image processing s/w (X included). I've ftp'ed ImageMagick and its great. Check out the FAQ its all there. ",5 "Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES (Henrik) In article <1993Apr20.110021.5746@kth.se> hilmi-er@dsv.su.se (Hilmi Eren) responsed to henrik@quayle.kpc.com who wrote: [h] The Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their RIGHTS [h] to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are INVADING their [h] territorium... [HE] Homeland? First Nagarno-Karabagh was Armenians homeland today [HE] Fizuli, Lacin and several villages (in Azerbadjan) [HE] are their homeland. Can't you see the [HE] the ""Great Armenia"" dream in this? Greater Armenia would stretch from Karabakh, to the Black Sea, to the Mediterranean, so if you use the term ""Greater Armenia"" use it with care. [HE] With facist methods like [HE] killing, raping and bombing villages. The last move was the [HE] blast of a truck with 60 kurdish refugees, trying to [HE] escape the from Lacin, a city that was ""given"" to the Kurds [HE] by the Armenians. It has always been up to the Azeris to end their announced winning of Karabakh by removing the Armenians! When the president of Azerbaijan, Elchibey, came to power last year, he announced he would be be ""swimming in Lake Sevan [in Armeniaxn] by July"". Well, he was wrong! If Elchibey is going to shell the Armenians of Karabakh from Aghdam, his people will pay the price! If Elchibey is going to shell Karabakh from Fizuli his people will pay the price! If Elchibey thinks he can get away with bombing Armenia from the hills of Kelbajar, his people will pay the price. It also seems other non-Azeri minorities in Azerbaijan have understood they are next in line in this process of forced Azerification or deportation. Just look at the situation with the Lezgians. About the Kurds...what Kurds! According to the Azerbaijani government, there are no Kurds in Azerbaijan. Can't they make up their minds? Oh I see, there are only Kurds when the Azeris want them to be Kurds! And anyway, this ""60 Kurd refugee"" story, as have other stories, are simple fabrications sourced in Baku, modified in Ankara. Other examples of this are Armenia has no border with Iran, and the ridiculous story of the ""intercepting"" of Armenian military conversations as appeared in the New York Times supposedly translated by somebody unknown, from Armenian into Azeri Turkish, submitted by an unnamed ""special correspondent"" to the NY Times from Baku. Real accurate! [h] However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane [h] to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one [h] that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane [h] (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA. [h] No, Henrik, these Turkish planes should be shot down with no questions asked. [HE] Don't speak about things you don't know: 8 American Cargo planes [HE] were heading to Armenia. When the Turkish authorities [HE] announced that they were going to search these cargo [HE] planes 3 of these planes returned to it's base in Germany. [HE] 5 of these planes were searched in Turkey. The content of [HE] of the other 3 planes? Not hard to guess, is it? It was sure not [HE] humanitarian aid..... Your ""facts"" in error. Shipments of all kinds that have transversed Turkey have been either searched, re-routed or confiscated. Some American planes were searched, others were re-routed, others were untouched. Rail shipments were held up last fall and last winter from entering Armenian from Turkey for the purpose of aiding in the economic collapse of Armenia. Wheat was confiscated, other shipments were exchanged with ""crap"" and dirt, then shipped to Armenia. U.S. planes don't have to use Turkish air bases. The U.S. uses these bases to bomb Iraq. Anyway, U.S. planes can fly over Georgia, which they have found is easier than to endure unnecessary expressions of Turkish chauvinism through searches of cargo which to this day have not revealed anything other than a paranoid Turkish military. [HE] Search Turkish planes? You don't know what you are talking about. [HE] since it's content is announced to be weapons? Well, big mouth Ozal said military weapons are being provided to Azerbaijan from Turkey, yet Demirel and others say no. No wonder you are so confused! [HE] Turkey's government has announced that it's giving weapons [HE] to Azerbadjan since Armenia started to attack Azerbadjan [HE] it self, not the Karabag province. So why search a plane for weapons [HE] since it's content is announced to be weapons? You are correct, all Turkish planes should be simply shot down! Nice, slow moving air transports! -- David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | ""How do we explain Turkish troops on S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | the Armenian border, when we can't P.O. Box 382761 | even explain 1915?"" Cambridge, MA 02238 | Turkish MP, March 1992 ",17 "Re: looking for circle algorithm faster than Bresenhams >>>>> On Wed, 14 Apr 1993 04:49:46 GMT, graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Graeme Gill) said: Graeme> Yes, that's known as ""Bresenhams Run Length Slice Algorithm for Graeme> Incremental lines"". See Fundamental Algorithms for Computer Graphics, Graeme> Springer-Verlag, Berlin Heidelberg 1985. > I have tried to extrapolate this to circles but I can't figure out > how to determine the length of the slices. Any ideas? Graeme> Hmm. I don't think I can help you with this, but you might Graeme> take a look at the following: Graeme> ""Double-Step Incremental Generation of Lines and Circles"", Graeme> X. Wu and J. G. Rokne, Computer Graphics and Image processing, Graeme> Vol 37, No. 4, Mar. 1987, pp. 331-334 Graeme> ""Double-Step Generation of Ellipses"", X. Wu and J. G. Rokne, Graeme> IEEE Computer Graphics & Applications, May 1989, pp. 56-69 Another paper you might want to consider is: @article{fungdraw, title=""A Run-Length Slice Line Drawing Algorithm without Division Operations"", author=""Khun Yee Fung and Tina M. Nicholl and A. K. Dewdney"", journal=""Computer Graphics Forum"", year=1992, volume=11, number=3, pages=""C-267--C-277"" } Khun Yee -- Khun Yee Fung clipper@csd.uwo.ca Department of Computer Science Middlesex College University of Western Ontario London, Ontario Canada N6A 5B7 Tel: (519) 661-6889 Fax: (519) 661-3515 ",1 "Re: Sunrise/ sunset times There is a nice little tool in Lucid emacs. It's called ""calendar"". On request it shows for given longitude/latitude coordinates times for sunset and sunrise. The code is written in lisp. I don't know if you like the idea that an editor is the right program to calculate these things. Theo W. Theo Wawers LAHMEYER INTERNATIONAL GMBH email : wawers@sunny.lif.de Lyonerstr. 22 phone : +49 69 66 77 639 D-6000 Frankfurt/Main fax : +49 69 66 77 571 Germany ",14 "Re: WD-40 as moisture repellant (was Lead Acid batteries & C In article <1993Apr25.094202.3978@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>, MATGBB@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (BYRNES,Graham) writes: > In sasrer@unx.sas.com writes: >> services we offered was an engine cleaning (remove all that oil BEFORE you >> sell the car... ;-}). Unfortunately, we did not have a high pressure ......... >> > This definately gets the car going, but... WD-40 is highly flammable. Explosive > even in the right conditions, like a vapour sealed inside a distributor for > eg. And contact points tend to arc a tiny bit :) > > I once saw the alternator/points cover blow completely off a motorcycle after > it had been restored to life with WD-40... fun to watch > (It was a Honda MR-50 minibike and the cover is only held on by large rubber > grommet, so it wasn't really a big blast.) > Graham B > PS As a more serious aside, it is apparently also conductive, so it is best > to exercise caution with it around mains wiring. > I, some years ago, almost became a victim of this. Squirted a fair amount in an old model 15 Teletype which was acting up, then turned it on. The eruption when the motor starting contacts broke was mighty spectacular... I almost got my eyebrows singed, the plastic (old ones had safety glass) cover over the platen, etc flew across the room, and several people in the room almost had heart attacks. Beware the explosive properties of WD40 vapor. -- ******************************************************************************* John H. Schmidt, P.E. |Internet: schmidt@auvax1.adelphi.edu Technical Director, WBAU |Phone--Days (212)456-4218 Adelphi University | Evenings (516)877-6400 Garden City, New York 11530 |Fax-------------(212)456-2424 ******************************************************************************* ",12 "Re: California Insurance Commissioner Endorses Federal Legislation to Protect Consumers from Scam Insurance Companies In article <1993Apr14.164549.24069@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, gadfly@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (Gadfly) writes: > In article <15342@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: # # # And now those ""other options"" don't exist. We probably agree on this # # # more than you think--welfare was invented to solve a problem of the # # # 30's, but the poverty is now so much worse, and our economic infra- # # # structure has been so eroded, that it just can't keep up any more. # # # You mean, since your philosophy took over, the economy has almost # # collapsed. # # Excuse me, *my* philosophy? You don't have any idea what *my* philosophy # is. The American economy has had its ups and downs through a number of # prevailing economic philosophies. But then, economics is hardly a science. In my lifetime, your philosophy -- socialism masquerading as a liberal welfare state -- has been in ascendancy. # No, I mean exactly what I wrote--the welfare system of the New Deal is # wholly inadequate to cope with the current state of affairs. Absolutely. So the response of socialists is take us even further into socialism. # # # # # (2) Whether or not the fathers work # # # # # is not germane to single mothers. # # # # # Very true. But the promotion of casual sexuality is something that # # # # plays a part in the single mother problem. # # # # I'll buy that--and there's lots of reasons for it, extremely far down on # # # the list being the flash-in-the-pan media attention a bunch of middle- # # # class dropouts got for their philosophy and experimentation. # # # Flash-in-the-pan? No, your subculture has utterly dominated the # # TV and movie industries for two decades now. # # *My* subculture? My, we're getting personal. The only subculture I see # dominating the TV and movie industries is *money*. If you'll buy it, # they'll sell it. And as recent movements to boycott TV advertisers have # shown, they're *very* sensitive about what sells. Whatever happened to # personal responsibility, anyway? Or am I personally responsible for # the decline in that, too? To the extent that people have been encouraged to NOT be responsible for themselves, yes. # # # # Come on. You and I both know that the major problem of this society # # # # today isn't a lack of employment, it's a lack of people willing to work. # # # # Huh??? Tell that to the single mother I know who was laid off from # # # her $10/hour job at a hospital and now works 2 full-time minimum- # # # wage jobs to barely be able to support herself and her kid. *Barely.* # # # Hey, she's too proud to go on public assistance, but the only jobs # # # she can find are menial and with no benefits. And no career path # # # either--they find excuses to lay people off and hire new ones rather # # # than give raises and perks. And why not? It's a lot cheaper. # # # Oddly enough, all the unskilled or semiskilled people I know manage # # to find employment almost immediately. Maybe she needs to move to a # # cheaper part of the country, where jobs are plentiful, and the cost # # of living is lower. # # The west side of Chicago is about as cheap as it gets--squalor city. # Tell me about all these places where it's cheap to live and jobs are # abundant--I'll pass them on. Sonoma County. # You live in a strange and wondrous place, sir. Inexpensive housing, Not exactly cheap, but not Los Angeles, either. # lots of employment, and utterly surrounded by socialists. Well, I suppose # that's the sort of environment that would attract socialists, or at least # not dissuade them. No, it's that areas with a lot of wealthy breed socialists -- all the spoiled rich kids, feeling guilty about their wealth. But not guilty enough to give it away -- they just look for politicians to take MY more limited wealth away. # # # I see a lot of people willing--nay, eager--to work. What I don't see # # # is a system that makes it at all feasible to do so. It's not just # # # welfare, which nobody enjoys, but there just aren't the jobs any more. # # # When the US was expanding industrial capacity there was always a mill # # # to go work in--skills to learn, a future. Now there's only McDonalds. # # # Odd. Not the experience of anyone I know. Just the opposite. # # In California??? Yup. # # # Mr. Cramer, I was there: Hippiedom was a very low-budget operation. # # # Our drugs were cheap. # # # The money I was referring to was Aid to Families with Druggie # # Cohabitators (AFDC). # # Well, I doubt that much of this goes to drugs--there isn't much left after # buying food, and there is very little in the first place. Sure, you read # about such cases now and then, but that's what makes them news. Show me # your statistics about AFDC abuse. I can tell you that relatives I have known, the drugs came first, the food was secondary. # Ken Perlow ***** ***** -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "FOR SALE: Sega Genesis system My roommate is selling a Sega Genesis system with Sonic I, in very nice condition, for $100 obo. Please respond via email to: pathall@as.arizona.edu Alternate email addresses are phall@noao.edu and moe@ccit.arizona.edu. Thanks, Pat Hall ",6 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage > From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) Bzzzzt. THANK you for playing, but obviously you are not reading the material as it is presented. According to the report I've got in my hands, the Newsweek article (which reported that ""2 to 3 percent"" of the population is gay) used the criteria of ""No heterosexual contact in the past year."" But at the same time, the University of Denver study points out, quite dramatically, that 60% of all self-identifying gay men have > had some form of heterosexual contact in the past year. I think the big mistake in that study must be that if one had had no sexual contact of any kind in the previous year, they are counted as heterosexual. Even if they didn't intend it that way, that's how the figures are being used. ",18 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! Brent Irvine (irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote: : failed to mention the Davidians pouring kerosene all over and lighting it in : plain view. Brent, I'm still waiting to see if there are any evidence of how the fire got started, so I'm not going to tell you who did it... As far as you keep talking about the Davidians pouring kerosene all over, stop and *think* for a second if it is possible the stove or lamp was knocked over and started a fire, and the Davidians were pouring water on it (wrong solution but I doubt I can do much better in their states of mind...) to try to put it out? By the way, just how far where you standing from the Davidians when you saw them setting the place on fire? Oh, in case you are new in town, microwave ovens doesn't work very well when there's no electricty. :-0 Get some *facts* before you post next time! --F. Chiu ",16 "Re: To be, or Not to be [ a Disaster ] In article <1qs7anINNin6@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> dyoung@ecst.csuchico.edu (Douglas Young) writes: >>You should face the facts. Love Canal was not, and is not, an >>environmental disaster, nor even a problem. >> >>Nor is Times Beach and TMI and acid rain killing trees and >>.... >> >Not a problem? Would you move to Three Mile Island? I would >imagine there is some cheap property available! No, because I don't like the weather back East. However, it would bother me not one bit to live in an equivalent area here. By the way, do you KNOW what the extra exposure to radiation from TMI was? >The naturally occurring catastrophic events [disasters] that >destroy property (ie: hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes) do >not usually leave toxic wastes that prevent people from >re-building their lives there. The man-made disasters (oil >spills, toxic dumping, radioactive waste dispersions) cause >death and make an area unliveable far beyond the initial >event. O.K., in the U.S., tell me about some of these deaths and some of these unliveable areas. Oh, and if you manage to find some of these unliveable areas, tell me what percentage of the total US land area they are. (Hint - the total waste produced by all nuclear reactors in the US can be safely stored in the area of three footbal fields.) -- There are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of environmental disaster. Weird, eh? These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...) ",18 "Re: Krillean Photography alex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos) writes: >FLAME ON >Reading through the posts about Kirlian (whatever spelling) >photography I couldn't help but being slightly disgusted by the >narrow-minded, ""I know it all"", ""I don't believe what I can't see or >measure"" attitude of many people out there. >I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to >so-called ""paranormal"" stuff; but as far as I'm concerned, it is just >as likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be >quite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis. Accepted by whom? People who think digital watches are a real good idea? That 60 channels of television is 10x better than 6 channels of television? >I am convinced that it is a serious mistake to close your mind to >something, ANYTHING, simply because it doesn't fit your current frame >of reference. History shows that many great people, great scientists, >were people who kept an open mind - and were ridiculed by sceptics. You're right. Keep an open mind to the following: 1. Taco flavored donuts. 2. Cannibalism. Good way to get that extra protein in the diet. 3. Belief in Yawanga, armadillo god of parking meters. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark VandeWettering Truest Servant of Yawanga! Oh Yawanga! He who never will become a road-pizza! All of my quarters and dimes, nay even nickels, will be spent to buy time to park in your eternal parking lot! ",13 "Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000 rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes: >Your best bet is the Dodge Intrepid with the SOHC 24 valve 3.4? six. >it gets 214 hp, and has a hell of a lot of room, great styling, and >ABS, with four wheel disk breaks. The LH cars won Automobile >magazines >""automobile of the year"" award, and are quiet impressive. Is the 24v LH under $16K, though? -- Chintan Amin The University of Illinois/Urbana Champaign mail: llama@uiuc.edu ****************************************************************************** *""Because he was human Because he had goodness Because he was moral* ***************They called him insane..."" Peart ""Cinderella Man""************* ",7 "New PowerBooks? I used to hate it when people posted messages like this, but now that I am contemplating a purchase, I can see why they do. So, has anyone heard of any upcoming (within the next 6 months) advances in the Powerbook line? Can we expect to see a PowerPC PowerBook at some point in the future (I assume an 040 would take too much power and generate too much heat for installation in a PowerBook)? Thanks for your help. ",4 "Re: multiple inputs for PC In article <93114.142835U19250@uicvm.uic.edu> writes: >Can anyone offer a suggestion on a problem I am having? >I have several boards whose sole purpose is to decode DTMF tones and send >the resultant in ASCII to a PC. These boards run on the serial interface. >I need to run * of the boards somwehat simultaneously. I need to be able to ho >ok them up to a PC> The problem is, how do I hook up 8+ serial devices to one >PC inexpensivley, so that all can send data simulataneously (or close to it)? >Any help would be greatly appreciated! Are the boards at all intelligent? (I.e., run by microcontrollers?) The easiest thing would be to have another line that says that one of the boards is talking to the PC. When this line was true, the other boards could all hold off and not send their data. This isn't a perfect solution, though, since you have to worry a little about making sure two boards don't decide to talk at the _exact same time_. Other than that, I think you will need to hook up each board to ""something"" that speaks RS-232. This actually isn't as hard (or as expensive!) as it used to be, though. Assuming the boards talk relatively slowly (9600 BPS or slower), the PICs can coordinate things between themselves to multiplex the data. (This is really just forbicly adding the suggestion in the first paragraph to your system. And it assumes that each board doesn't talk more than 1/8th of the time, of for very long, since a PIC isn't going to be able to buffer more than, maybe 20-some bytes!) You might want to check into the prices of multi-serial card for your PC, though. I recently bought a Boca Research 2x4 card (2 parallel ports, 4 RS-232 ports) for a very reasonable $85. ---Joel Kolstad ",12 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes: >My reference is a 4 page essay in our local Star Tribute newspaper >putting the whole conflict in perspective. I will readily admit >that I am no authority in this area; however, other posteers >asserted that *some* Muslims did join hands with Croats and >Nazis in persecuting Serbs. In any case, past actions do not And the best evidence you can find is second hand hearsay from an unnamed source? You may indeed be confusing *some* Muslims with Nazi Armenians. Altogether 30,000 Nazi Armenians served in various units in the German Wehrmacht, according to Ara J. Berkian. 14,000 in predominantly Armenian army units, 6,000 in German army units, 8,000 in various working units and 2,000 in the Waffen-SS.[1] A number of these Nazi Armenians were volunteers from France, Greece, Rumania and Bulgaria who had chosen to commit themselves to the German war effort. Derounian says that ""Dashnag Armenians from France bore the mark 'Legion Armenienne.'""[2] That Nazi Armenians like Dro 'the Butcher' and Nezhdeh sided with the Germans probably had an impact on the decision of Armenians who overwhelmingly opted for armed service. [1] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900 Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 118/119. [2] John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), in 'The Armenian Displaced Persons,' ibid., p. 19. In fall 1942, the Armenian infantry battalions 808 and 809 were formed, to be followed by battalions 810, 812 and 813 in spring 1943. In the second half of 1943 infantry battalions 814, 815 and 816 were created. These battalions together with other indigenous Caucasian units were attached to the infantry division 162. Also attached to ID 162 were the field battalions II/9, I/125 and I/198 which were formed between May 1942 and May 1943. Altogether twelve Armenian battalions served the Nazi army, if battalion II/73, which was not employed at any time, is to be included.[1] Most battalions were commanded by Nazi Armenian officers. Armenians wore German uniforms with an armband in the Dashnag colours red-blue-orange and the inscription 'Armenien.' [1] Joachim Hoffmann, 'Dies Ostlegionen 1941-1943, Turkotataren, Kaukasier und Wolgafinned im deutschen Heer,' (Verlag Rombach Freiburg 1976), p. 172. While having collaborated with the Nazis against Stalin during the Second World War, Nazi Armenians changed their policy after Hitler's defeat. They now backed Stalin's claims on Eastern Turkish provinces, hoping that these would be annexed to Soviet Armenia and their Muslim population would be exterminated. Stalin played on Armenian national sentiments to enlist the support of Armenians in the USSR and America for his imperial ambitions.[1] Stalin's ultimatum to the Turkish government led Truman to formulate his famous Doctrine. [1] Walter Kolarz, 'Religion in the Soviet Union,' (London, Macmillan & Co Ltd; New York, St Martin's Press 1961), pp. 160-164. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Lasers for dermatologists Having had limited tinea pedis for more than 30 years, and finding it resistant to ALL creams and powders I have tried, I wonder why dermatologists do not use lasers to destroy the fungus. It would seem likely to be effective and inexpensive. Are there good reasons for not using lasers? I was told that dermatology had not yet reached the laser age. John McKay vax2.concordia.ca -- Deep ideas are simple. Odd groups are even. Even simples are not. ",13 "Re: Schedule... In article <121411@netnews.upenn.edu> kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller) writes: >In article <1qup1lINNotb@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu writes: >>Does anyone have the games ESPN will be airing this week??? Hopefully the >>Detroit/Toronto game tongiht. I though ABC did a decent job by getting some > >F**king *NO* hockey games televised nationally tonight! What the hell is >this??? Why the hell is ESPN showing some stupid baseball game, when >baseball is not even three weeks into the season and hockey is in the >playoffs??? No, wait, I know the answer: $$$$$$ But still! It really >pisses me off to no end. They better start putting some more f*cking >games on, or they will never make any money off of the deal that brought >hockey back to ESPN. AARGH!!!! (not that I'd watch anyway, but hockey >needs all the publicity it can get) > >-- > Keith Keller LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!! > LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!! > kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!! > > ""A cow is not a vegetarian dish."" -- Keith Keller, 1993 You obviously don't understand how TV scheduling works. ESPN had prior contracts to baseball to show Monday night games and had contracted all the other bs shows well in advance. The NHL TV deal was very late in the scheduling process (you normally have to do this one-plus year out. The NHL package was finished two weeks before the season started). ESPN has shown tremendous commitment to the NHL by squeezing in extra telecasts when it could (like the last Minnesota game) and putting Stanley Cup games as backup to their baseball telecasts (which by favorable circumstances they could pull off last night). But the bottom line is that ESPN cannot break contracts at will. They must honor the previous deals they made. $$$$ _does_ have something to do with it, especially if you risk a $$$$$$$$ lawsuit for breach of contract with baseball. So relax. I'm happy. (I don't get SportsChannel anyway). -Tom Galvin galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil ",10 "Re: Cable TVI interference If I remember rightly, there is a pulsating set of tones piped thru the CATV systems (somewheres near the FM broadcast band). And that the cable company trucks listen for this as they roam around town. If you can hear it over the air and not cable.... ",12 "whole win on screen? Window placement on screen -------------------------- I would like to configure my system (a HP UNIX) to avoid that any corner of a given window is displayed outside of the visible screen. The whole window should be visible and it should be impossible to move any window outside the visible aerea. 1. Can this be done by configuring the window manager's resources 2. Can this be done on applikation level 3. A hardcoded solution is possible, but is it possible to have a upper limit of a given window size Thank you for information and help ",5 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians jovanovic-nick@yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic) writes: >In article <1srespINNsua@mojo.eng.umd.edu> josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) writes: >> ... Under such >>conditions, it is very easy for Serbs to play a ""divide-and-conquer"" >>game, and to get the Muslims and Croats (who have strong common >It is the Serbs who were divided when Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina >attempted to secede from Yugoslavia, ripping more than 2,000,000 Serbs >and their property out of Yugoslavia. It is the Croats that were divided, at least 70,000 were left in Serbian province of Vojvodina. It is the Muslims that were divided, 200,000 left in the region of Sanjak that now belongs to Serbia. If the Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina want self-determination, the same right should be given to Croats and Muslims, and Albanians and Hungarians in Serbia. Why should Serbia be exempted? >-Nick Senad ",17 "Re: PKUNZIP2.04g In article <1pn6tr$l70@dekalb.DC.PeachNet.EDU> kenneth@dekalb.DC.PeachNet.EDU (Kenneth Palmertree) writes: Hey, Does anyone know of an ftp site where I can get pkunzip2.04g from. I tried using archie with no such luck. This version of pkunzip is suppose to correct some promblems when using pkunzip within windows. Thanks in advance! :-) you can get pk.... from ftp.cica.indiana.edu ",2 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card In article Thomas Parsli writes: >I don't remember the figures EXACTLY, but there were about 3500 deaths in Texas >in 1991 that was caused by guns..... >This is more than those beeing killed in car-ACCIDENTS! >(Yes, there could be that low sentences or high poverty could influence the >figures but they're still *pretty* high right??) >I also believe Texas has some of the most liberal 'gun-laws' in USA...... And you'd be wrong about that too. Note that Texas isn't unique in this ""more with-gun deaths than with-car deaths"", but some of the other states where it happens have extremely strict gun laws. Oops - so much for the ""meaning"". It isn't clear that the comparision means anything anyway as car accidents are unintentional while gun deaths aren't, but if we're going to make it, let's at least be honest. >*I* should not suffer because of others.... >We all agree on this one, BUT we also live in a sociaty and therefor >we'll have to give up *SOME* of our 'freedom' (Note the ''). Give it up for what? Gun control doesn't have any benefits, so it fails by this standard. >Do you have an insurance?? >Then you'll have to pay because of what others do... Note that insurance gives me something in return - gun control doesn't. >-What the hell is he trying to say ?? >When you live in a society (USA are stilll counted as one...) you >have to saccrifice. >The question is HOW MUCH. That's half the question - the rest is ""and what do you get for your sacrifice"". If the answer to the second question is ""nothing"", as it is for gun control, then we don't have to ask the first question because getting nothing means that no sacrifice is justified. -andy -- ",16 "Fractals? What good are they ? We have been using Iterated Systems compression board to compress pathology images and are getting ratios of 40:1 to 70:1 without too much loss in quality. It is taking about 4 mins per image to compress, on a 25Mhz 486 but decompression is almost real time on a 386 in software alone. ",1 "Re: Help! Which bikes are short? bean@ra.cgd.ucar.edu (Gregory Bean) writes: >Help! I've got a friend shopping for her first motorcycle. This is great! >Unfortunately, she needs at most a 28"" seat. This is not great. So far, >the only thing we've found was an old and unhappy-looking KZ440. I have been checking out bikes (hoping for lowish seats) for a few weeks. A Honda Twinstar (250cc) fit me well, a Honda Hawk (400cc) did not, the Kawasaki 250HB/SB/SH? (can't remember) looked like it would fit me well but the price tag was way too large... >I seem to remember a thread with a point similar to this passing through >several months ago. Did anybody keep that list? Please post this list or mail me one too! (: Patricia phj@remus.rutgers.edu ",8 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes: : significantly less than the value of many automobiles. And for those who will : argue that the animals out there stealing cars and everything else (not to : mention committing COMPLETELY senseless acts of violence, such as rape) cannot : be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit that they : are not human beings. Jim Callison, I think, is on the right track. And Absolutely. A scratch on my car bothers me more than the death of any number of scum. All of you feel the same way---you just won't admit it. When are people going to realise that the mere fact that a piece of flesh moves and has the approximate shape of a human being does not in itself mean that it has ""rights""? ",7 "Re: Proof of the Viability of Gun Control [alt.drugs and alt.conspiracy removed from newsgroups line.] In article neal@magpie.linknet.com (Neal) writes: > Once the National Guard has been called into federal service, >it is under the command of the present. Tha National Guard, though >defined as the ""Militia"" in the statutes, is actually a reserve component >of the United State Army, and was formed pursuant to the power of Congress >to raise and support Armies. That's the really cute thing about saying the 2nd amendment only covers the national guard, because that would mean that it essentially prohibits the federal government from disarming a branch of the federal government. Sounds like a real limit to federal power to me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - ""I still remember the way you laughed, the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't love me anymore."" - ""Weird Al"" ",16 "cxterm on MIPS Hello, Has anyone built cxterm (X11R5) on a MIPS platform. If you have, please send me email as I don't read this group. I've a bunch of questions... :-) Thanks Edward M. Greshko Control Data Taiwan Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287 6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3 FAX : +886-2-712-9197 Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C ",5 "Re: Why I wanted police officers to answer my posting viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes: >and copped an attitude when he was stopped? Speaking as a guy >who recieved a *verbal warning* for 146mph in a 55, I just have to laugh. Hey Dan, Some potentially cool story stuff here... Do share the details. *I* never get a break, probably most of us don't either, so please, enlighten and enliven, and let us live vicariously. Waitin' for that story... -Erc. GrandRapids, MI, USA `90 VFR750f DoD# 1138 ",8 "Re: screen problem in unix/xwindows/solaris SHONKWILER R W (ma201rs@prism.gatech.EDU) wrote: : Experiment: From a Sun openwindows 4.1.3 xterm window log into a : Solaris 2.x machine using rlogin; now do an ""ls"" and get the first : character of each line display in the last column of the display : with the rest of the line wrapped to the next line of the display. : Log out and the condition persists. Check stty all, try reset : with no effect. The condition happens when the TAB is not set to 8 spaces, set and then check out. -- Suresh Sivaprakasam Department of Computer Science, SUNY Buffalo, Amherst, NY - 14260-0001 Internet :sivap-s@cs.Buffalo.EDU Bitnet : sivap-s@SUNYBCS.BITNET ",5 "IBM 5272 ColorDisplay for 3270PC ? I have one of these monitors. It appears to function OK, but is unhookable to anything standard (CGA,EGA,VGA) - it will plug in but gives fuzzy diagonal noise. I also have a graphics board that is apparently a 3270 graphic board (double card with 2 8-bit bus connectors, and a 9-pin female connector with a picture of monitor). I tried plugging these two into a standard AT to no avail. How can one connect these to (the monitor seems to be of relatively high quality, so I'm curious)? Any special drivers and/or setup needed - I can't locate any jumpers on the card. ",3 "Re: Fifth Amendment and Passwords In article <1993Apr16.165423.27204@linus.mitre.org: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes: :Judge: ""I grant you immunity from whatever may be learned from the key : itself"" :You: ""The keyphrase is: ""I confess to deliberately evading copyright; : the file encoded with this keyphrase contains illegal scans of : copyrighted Peanuts strips."""" :Judge and CP: ""Oh."" : How will they get you now? I'm not saying that they won't, or :can't (or even that they shouldn't :-), but what legal mechanism will :they use? Should we be crossposting this to misc.legal? Hm, could another court try you via a bypass of the double jeopardy amendment like they are doing in the LAPD trial? Ie your judge is a state judge, and then a federal judge retries you under the justification that its not the same trail. -- Kenneth Ng Please reply to ken@blue.njit.edu for now. ""All this might be an elaborate simulation running in a little device sitting on someone's table"" -- J.L. Picard: ST:TNG ",11 "Re: Let's build software cryptophones for over the internet... In Graham Toal writes: >In article <1regq0INNn7u@gap.caltech.edu> hal@cco.caltech.edu (Hal Finney) writes: >:I tried this code yesterday. On my Sparcstation ELC it takes over >:300 seconds to compress 22 seconds' worth of speech. This means that it >:needs to be ""optimized"" by over a factor of 10 before it will be usable >:in even a half-duplex mode. >Ouch! Thanks for trying it. The following program is a very quick hack I created a few months ago to determine whether a Sun Sparcstation IPC could perform real-time, full-duplex encrypted audio with resulting data rates sustainable by today's modems. This test program reads linearly-encoded audio from the audio device, compresses it with GSM 06.10 (compresses frames of 160 13-bit samples recorded at 8kHz into 260 bits resulting in a 50 Hz frame rate), encrypts it with DES, then reverses the process and sends the reconstructed audio back to the audio device. The compressed, encrypted audio stream is 13 kbits/s (!). My Sparcstation IPC (not exactly a very fast machine these days, certainly slower than an ELC) would just barely sustain this activity (audio underruns would occcur but the speech was very intelligible). I ran it as a real-time process to get the best results. Remember, though, that this program is a quick hack and the performance can certainly be improved. The audio compression routines can be ftp'd from tub.cs.tu-berlin.de, I believe (look for gsm or toast). I used Eric Young's DES implementation but I no longer know where I got it from. Cheers!greg <--------------------------- CUT HERE -----------------------------> /* * Test program to see how much CPU it takes for secure digital audio. * Written by G. Onufer (greg@cheers.Bungi.COM). * * Written on a Sun IPC running Solaris 2.2 with a Sun ISDN S-Bus card * and a SpeakerBox. */ #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include #include boolean_t svs_audio_init(int fd, audio_info_t *prev_info) { audio_info_t info; if (prev_info != NULL) { if (ioctl(fd, AUDIO_GETINFO, prev_info) < 0) { perror(""AUDIO_GETINFO""); return (B_FALSE); } } AUDIO_INITINFO(&info); info.record.pause = B_TRUE; info.play.pause = B_TRUE; info.play.sample_rate = 8000; info.play.encoding = AUDIO_ENCODING_LINEAR; info.play.channels = 1; info.play.precision = 16; info.record.sample_rate = 8000; info.record.encoding = AUDIO_ENCODING_LINEAR; info.record.channels = 1; info.record.precision = 16; info.record.buffer_size = 320 * 4; if (ioctl(fd, AUDIO_SETINFO, &info) < 0) { perror(""AUDIO_SETINFO""); return (B_FALSE); } if (ioctl(fd, I_FLUSH, FLUSHRW) < 0) { perror(""I_FLUSH""); return (B_FALSE); } AUDIO_INITINFO(&info); info.record.pause = B_FALSE; info.play.pause = B_FALSE; if (ioctl(fd, AUDIO_SETINFO, &info) < 0) { perror(""AUDIO_SETINFO""); return (B_FALSE); } return (B_TRUE); } boolean_t svs_in(int ifd, gsm handle, gsm_byte *buf) { gsm_signal sample[160]; if (read(ifd, sample, sizeof (sample)) != sizeof (sample)) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs_in: short read\n""); return (B_FALSE); } gsm_encode(handle, sample, buf); return (B_TRUE); } boolean_t svs_out(int ofd, gsm handle, gsm_byte *buf) { gsm_signal sample[160]; if (gsm_decode(handle, buf, sample) < 0) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs_out: gsm_decode failed\n""); return (B_FALSE); } if (write(ofd, sample, sizeof (sample)) != sizeof (sample)) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs_out: short write\n""); return (B_FALSE); } return (B_TRUE); } main() { gsm handle; gsm_frame frame; int audiofd; int option; des_cblock key, ivec_in, ivec_out; des_key_schedule ks_in, ks_out; des_cblock cbuf_in[4], cbuf_out[4], cbuf_buf[4]; audiofd = open(""/dev/audio"", O_RDWR); if (audiofd < 0) { perror(""open""); exit(4); } /* * Initialize GSM compression code */ if ((handle = gsm_create()) == NULL) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs: gsm_create failed\n""); exit(4); } option = B_TRUE; if (gsm_option(handle, GSM_OPT_FAST, &option) < 0) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs: gsm_option (FAST) failed\n""); exit(4); } /* * Initialize DES code */ des_random_key(&key); if (des_set_key(&key, ks_in) < 0) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs: des_set_key failed\n""); exit(4); } if (des_set_key(&key, ks_out) < 0) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs: des_set_key failed\n""); exit(4); } memset(ivec_in, 0, sizeof (ivec_in)); memset(ivec_out, 0, sizeof (ivec_out)); /* * Open audio device and configure it */ if (!svs_audio_init(audiofd, NULL)) exit(3); for (;;) { /* * Get 160 samples (16-bit linear 8000Hz) and * convert to a 33 byte frame */ if (!svs_in(audiofd, handle, frame)) exit(1); /* * Encrypt/Decrypt block */ des_cbc_encrypt(frame, cbuf_out, (long)32, ks_in, ivec_in, DES_ENCRYPT); des_cbc_encrypt(cbuf_out, cbuf_buf, (long)32, ks_out, ivec_out, DES_DECRYPT); memmove(frame, cbuf_buf, 32); #if 0 if (memcmp(cbuf_in, cbuf_buf, 32) != 0) { fprintf(stderr, ""svs: memcmp failed\n""); exit(4); } #endif /* * Take 33 byte frame and convert to 160 samples * and play */ if (!svs_out(audiofd, handle, frame)) exit(2); } gsm_destroy(handle); } <--------------------------- CUT HERE -----------------------------> ",11 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 (SILLY) rak@crosfield.co.uk (Richard Kirk) writes: >It's the number of legs on a centipede. >So, now you know. Is that the number of ""left"" legs, or both left and right? -- Dave Bushong, Wang Laboratories, Inc. Amateur Radio Callsign KZ1O Project Leader, Recognition products kz1o@n0ary.#noca.ca.na Internet: dbushong@wang.com ",1 "Re: Are other riders welcome to join group In article <1993Apr23.212827.19642@PacBell.COM> jscosta@srv.PacBell.COM (Jon Costa) writes: >When riding in a group, generally speaking, do most people mind when >another rider tags along? >I had the distinct feeling I may not have been welcome when I tagged >along with a group last weekend. Yer welcome to ride with me and my friends any time. Just introduce your self at the earliest opportunity and say ""Mind if I rid with you guys?"" ----===== DoD #8177 = Technician(Dr. Speed) .NOT. Student =====---- Stolen Taglines... HEY! Where did they go? You don't think .... naahh. ",8 "High level language compilers for uControllers ? Howdy chaps Has anybody got any pointers to good C, Pascal, etc compilers for microcontrollers, shareware or otherwise ? My specific need is for 8051 C, but if the responses are many and varied I will post a summary. Cheers Mike Mike Abbott mabbot@stellenbos.csir.co.za Cape Town mabbot@fred.csir.co.za South Africa ",12 "Re: CView answers In <1993Apr17.113223.12092@imag.fr> schaefer@imag.imag.fr (Arno Schaefer) writes: >Sorry, Bryan, this is not quite correct. Remember the VGALIB package that comes >with Linux/SLS? It will switch to VGA 320x200x256 mode *without* Xwindows. >So at least it is *possible* to write a GIF viewer under Linux. However I don't >think that there exists a similar SVGA package, and viewing GIFs in 320x200 is >not very nice. No, VGALIB? Amazing.. I guess it was lost in all those subdirs :-) Thanks for correcting me. It doesn't sound very appealing though, only 320x200? I'm glad it wasn't something major I missed. Thanks, ",1 "FORSALE: RADIUS Precision Color 24x Video Card I have a Radius Precision Color 24x video card for the Mac that fits in a NuBus slot. The card has 3 Mb of VRAM on it, which means that 24-bit color is possible on the card! The card supports just about any monitor scan rate you can think of (I used it at 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768, but it can go higher). You can switch resolutions and depth on the fly with a software control panel. This is the ACCELERATED version of the card, which means all QuickDraw calls are not executed by the CPU but taken over by the video card, freeing up the mac processor for other tasks. The cheapest I could find this card for when I called around last night was $1738 at Mac's Place. I will sell it for $1250 + shipping. It is just over a year old and never been any problem. It comes with software and the original manuals. Hurry! Chris Magnuson chrism@col.hp.com Hewlett-Packard Company (719) 590-2963 ",4 "Recs on Mac Video System -Cards Software? What would be a good platform for some fairly basic video work of the following nature: Reading real video in for playbak in various app's 5-10 Minnutes in length Basic editing features for said video - rearange sequences, adding grapic slides from something like power point etc... I'm not to familiar with this stuff but would like a good system with crisp performance. It's for educational/promotional things so the video quality should be decent. I'm thinking Tempest or cyclone, Big drive,loads o ram, Floptical or 128Mb optical ?? - however, I'm not to sure of the various cards and software thats out there. Please email any responses, Thanks Ted Schreiber Mechanical Enginering Northwestern University Tel: 708.491.5386 FAX 708.491.3915 Email: rts@nwu.edu ",4 "Re: GGRRRrrr!! Cages double-parking motorcycles pisses me off! Evelyn Wells, on the 12 Apr 1993 11:43 CST wibbled: : Once again, this morning I pulled up to the designated motorcycle : parking area, only to find a cage pulled up behind the bikes. : If people don't double-park cars, why do they do it to motorcycles? : Never mind that rhetorical question, I know *why* they do it. : What I want to know is, what can I do about it? Carry pieces of : paper that say ""Don't park your car in the motorcycle area!!"" ? : Call the cops? Wait until they emerge from the building and berate : them until they beg forgiveness? : Does anyone else have this problem, and what do you do about it? : Evie I don't know if you have a local branch where you are, but the preferred method over here is to 'phone the IRA and tell them about the car and that it belongs to an MP who is on a Northern Ireland Government Committee. An hour or so later, and the car is no longer a problem. It's best not to park too close to it, though. -- Nick (the Vengeful Biker) DoD 1069 Concise Oxford Plastic M'Lud. ___ ___ ___ ___ {""_""} {""_""} {""_""} {""_""} Nick Pettefar, Contractor@Large. ' ` ` ' ' ` ` ' Currently incarcerated at BNR, ___ ___ ___ ___ Maidenhead, The United Kingdom. |""_""| |""_""| |""_""| |""_""| npet@bnr.ca '86 BMW K100RS ""Kay"" ` ' ' ` ` ' ' ` Pres. PBWASOH(UK), BS 0002 . _ _ _ __ . / ~ ~~\ | / ~~ \ |_______| [_______| _:_ |___| ",8 "Re: Ibm link to imagewriter - In article <10006.24.uupcb@ozonehole.com> chris.crayton@ozonehole.com (Chris Crayton) writes: >*** On 04-20-93 21:25, Larry Henson had the unmitigated gall to say this: > > LH> Hello, I am trying to hook an Apple Imagewriter to my IBM Clone. > LH> I seem to have a problem configuring my lpt port to accept this. How > LH> can you adjust baud, parity, etc. to fit the system? I tried MODE, but > LH> it did not work. If anyone can help, post of e-mail. Thanx. > >LPT ports don't recognize baud, parity, etc. settings. You might be tring >to connect a serial printer to a parallel port. Try this: attach the serial >port of the printer to a serial port on the PC. Use the mode command to set >the COM port settings. Try > >C>MODE COM1,9600,N,8,1 > >to set the port parameters. Then use the MODE command to redirect the >printer port LPT1 like this: > >C>MODE LPT1=COM1 > >This should work. Good luck! > First you need to connect them with a null modem cable. Atleast thats what I've heard. Dave. ",3 "Re: CLINTON: President to Nominate Carter for Nuclear Security Post In article <1qgbljINNn4o@life.ai.mit.edu>, Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org (Clinton/Gore '92) writes: > > THE WHITE HOUSE > Office of the President > For Immediate Release April 13, 1993 > > PRESIDENT TO NOMINATE CARTER FOR NUCLEAR SECURITY No, no, no! Bill, please, don't nominate ANYone who pronounces it ""noo-q-lar""! Jimmy always used to drive everyone nuts when he did that! And don't let Amy anywhere near! And... > (Washington, DC) The President announced today that he intends > to nominate Ashton Carter, the Director of Harvard's Center for > Science and International Affairs, to be Assistant Secretary of > Defense for Nuclear Security and Counter-Proliferation. {Emily Litella voice} ...never mind. ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ Paul Havemann (Internet: paul@hsh.com) * They're not just opinions -- they're caffeine for the brain! * ** (Up to 50 milligrams per cynical observation.) ** Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement: 1,000 mg. Keep reading. ",18 "Re: Duo price reduction? Yes, Duo prices have dropped. I don't have the MSRP reductions, (though you can find it in a recent TidBITS, archived at sumex) but here's the Berkeley educational price list (old -> new) Duo 210 4/80 $1919 -> 1569 Duo 230 4/80 $2225 -> 1961 Duo 230 4/120 $2532 -> 2268 Duo 230 4/120/modem $2746 -> 2473 So there. Joel -- Joel Siegel ""I myself have never been able to find out what feminism is: I only know that I am called a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat."" -Rebecca West, 1913 ",4 "Re: Serbian genocide Work of God? Vera Shanti Noyes writes: >really? you may be right, but i'd like proof. as far as i know (and ""We however, shall be innocent of this sin, and will pray with earnest entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the numbers of His elect."" -St. Clement, Bishop of Rome, Letter to the Corinthians, 59.2, (c. 90 AD) ""Ignatius also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia, which is worthy of all felicitation, blessed as it is with greatness by the fullness of God the Father, predestined from all eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen in true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God..."" -St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians, Address, (c 110 AD) ""We say therefore, that in substance, in concept, in orgin and in eminece, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, gathering as it does into the unity of the one faith which results from the familiar covenants .... those already chosen, those predestined by God who knew before the foundation of the world that they would be just."" -St. Clement, Patriarch and Archbishop of Alexandria, Miscellanies, 7.17.107.3, (c 205 AD) Of course the doctrine was explained more fully later on by Sts. Augustine, Aquinas, etc., but the seeds were ther from the beginning. >this is really confusing to me, especially since i still believe that >christ jesus died for ALL of us. preknowledge of obstinacy seems >like an awfully convoluted way to account for a couple of verses. but I think you are reading it wrong. I say those who are not saved are not saved on account of their own sins. It is not because God did not give them sufficient grace, for He does do so, in His desire that all men might be saved. However, as only some are saved - and those who are saved are saved by the grace of God, ""not by works, lest any man should boast"" - the others are damned because of their obstinacy in refusing to heed the call of God. They are damned by their own free will and chosing, a choice forseen by God in His causing them to be not predestined, but reprobated instead. >so God uses grace like margarine: he only spreads it where it's needed >and not where it isn't? and so there are the saved and the not-saved, >and nothing in between. hmmmm. Certainly God does not distribute grace evenly. If He did, no one could have their heart hardened (or rather, harden their heart, thus causing God to withdraw His grace). But, you are correct - the world is divided into those who God knows to be saved, and those God knows to be on the road to perdition. THe key is that God knows it and we do not. Thus, no one can boast in complete assurance that they are one of the elect and predestined. But no one who is a Christian in good standin should doubt their salvation either (that shows a lack of trust in God). >be punished after we die. you're saying what we get after we die has >a direct bearing on how we live now? strange.... You must admit it is possible. Anyway, why would you want something in the hear and know, when you can recieve 100 fold in heaven? Better to lay up your treasure in heaven is what Jesus said. This is not to condemn the rich, but simply to point out that those who are rich are frequently very evil or immoral, so God must give them their blessing know, as they have chosen. Remeber, Jesus promised tribulation in this world, and hatred of others because we are Christians. He did not promise heaven on earth. He promised heaven. >so sin is either punished now or later -- and not both? what if it's > sort of half-punished? are there any grey areas in this doctrine? Not really. Unless you do penance here on earth, you will have to do it in Purgatory, as Paul pointed out (1 Corinthians 3.15). Those with poorer works, though still done with good intentions, will only be saved through fire (the damned will of course go into fire immeadiately, for whatever good they did was not for God but for self (dead works)). Of course, the Church gives indulgences, has Confession, and Annointing of the Sick to remove sin and the the vestiges of sin, so there is really little excuse for ending up in Purgatory - it is a last hope for the somewhat lazy and careless as I said above in referring to Paul. And no comments were taken as flames. You are one of the more polite people I have talked to over the net. Andy Byler ps. As for Balkan military adventures, the old saw about that area is that it produces more history then can be consumed locally: Alexander the Great, WWI the Ottoman Empire, the Byzantine Empire (by which I refer to stirfe and foreign adventures of them in general), the Balkans wars of 1913, the Latin-Greek wars of the 1200's, etc. Not a good place to hop into. ",15 "Re: Jack Morris In <48178@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes: >In article <1993Apr19.212428.7530@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes: >The facts are that Morris >|> has shown us that he has what it takes to play on a WS winning club. >|> Clemens hasn't. >What *does* it take to play on a WS winning club? We have no way of knowing because we cannot separate Morris' contribu- tion from the rest of the team's. There is only one way of determin- ing ""best"" in baseball. And that is by looking at the scoreboard at the end of the game. Each game determines which *team* is the best that day. At the end of the season, the team that was the best the most often is the best in the division. The playoffs determine the best of the best. But the point is that the only decision making pro- cess used to determine the ""best"" is the score of the game and it re- lates to the *teams*. Not the individual players. There is no method inherent in baseball of comparing individual performances. And that is how it should be, because, after all, baseball is a team game. To say that one player is better than another is to be able to say ab- solutely that player A's team would have played better with player B in their lineup. Sheer speculation. Impossible to ascertain. If you want to select a group of statistics and claim that Clemens has done better with those statistics as a criteria, then fine. But you have to be able to prove that those statistics measure the individual's contribution to winning the WS - because that is the only measure of ""best"" that has any meaning in the context of base- ball. So until you can prove that Clemens contributes to a WS cham- pionship more than Morris your evaluation of Clemens is totally sub- jective and is mere opinion. I have yet to see that any of you can predict a WS winner with any greater accuracy than Jeanne Dixon. >The fact is that Morris didn't ""win"" any ballgames, Toronto did, in >spite of Morris' ""contribution"". This has been explained to you Exactly. The Jays won with Morris pitching. And Boston wins with Clemens pitching. I am not saying that Morris is better than Clemens. I am saying that individual comparisons between players are totally meaningless and that anyone claiming that Clemens is better based on his ERA has missed the point of what baseball is all about. >many, many times and you are either too stupid or too stubborn to grasp it. You don't have to be rude. >You are completely consumed by the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. For you to say that means that you have either missed the entire point of my argument, or you yourself have committed a fallacy - Ignoratio Elenchi. I am not saying that Morris is better than Clemens because he has more rings (although I have, tongue in cheek, claimed that in the past). I am saying that it is impossible to isolate an individual's performance from that of his team's for the purpose of comparing that individual's performance with another individual's per- formance. The stats are a nice hobby and that's about it. There is no new knowledge being produced. So when a poster claims that Morris is better than Clemens because he has more rings, the poster is no more nor less incorrect than the rest of you baying hounds. -- cordially, as always, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ""So many morons... rm ...and so little time."" ",9 "Re: 80-bit keyseach machine In article <16BB71018.C445585@mizzou1.missouri.edu> C445585@mizzou1.missouri.edu (John Kelsey) writes: >In article <1993Apr21.001230.26384@lokkur.dexter.mi.us> >scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes: > >>Normally I'd be the last to argue with Steve . . . but shouldn't that >>read ""3.8 years for *all* solutions"". I mean, if we can imagine the >>machine that does 1 trial/nanosecond, we can imagine the storage medium >>that could index and archive it. > > Hmmmm. I think, with really large keyspaces like this, you need to >alter the strategy discussed for DES. Attempt decryption of several >blocks, and check the disctribution of the contents. I don't think it's >at all feasible to keep 2**80 encryptions of a known plaintext block on >*any* amount of tape or CD-ROM. And certainly not 2**128 such encrypted >blocks. (Anyone know a cheap way of converting every atom in the solar >system into a one bit storage device?) [...] I don't claim to be a crypto analyist... there isn't a whole lot of good literature on the subject, and the best people don't seem to publish their work :) but I rather doubt the approach such folks use is brute force (sorry to have implied that in my previous post). The history of these things is folks find clever ways of limiting the search and bang from there. I guess my real problem with Skipjack is I can not believe NSA would make publicly available a system they couldn't break if they wanted... it just isn't in their charter. Remember DES came from IBM, not NSA and, when first published, was given a useful life of 20 years... I think we are well past that point now :( Remember, based on the size of the NSA budget, they spend a lot more on the technology of decryption than most computer companies spend on R&D. I have to imagine their stuff is real interesting... A friend who once worked for them (he is dead now) said he always enjoyed monitoring SAC's (Strategic Air Command) crypto traffic :) and I rather suspect that stuff is a bit more complex than Skipjack (Or was it the military got the stuff from the NSA just like we get Skipjack from them ;) [BTW, folks, NSA wasn't being given the keys. And the Walker spy case shows for some of the systems, the KGB didn't need them either.] -- Information farming at... For addr&phone: finger A/~~\A THE Ohio State University jebright@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ((0 0))____ Jim Ebright e-mail: jre+@osu.edu \ / \ Support Privacy: Support Encryption (--)\ ",11 "Re: The Slaughter [followups to talk.politics.guns] rl> Russell Lawrence kr> Karl Rominger kr> I support the right of any citizen with out a criminal history to own and use firearms, regardless of race, gender, and RELIGION. rl> Thanks for admitting that you, yourself, adhere to an illogical dogma. Well, folks in t.p.guns, want to show how Russell's ""illogical dogma"" is wrong? -- Gary Strand Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF ",16 "Re: Hallam-Baker bashes tpgers (was Re: Welcome to Police State USA) In article , hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: > No, Frank Crary's arguments are based on the assumption that most people > are sane, normal people. tpg disproves this of gun owners. USEnet as a whole > disproves it of humanity as a whole. Heavens! Everybody but Phill is out of step! > We now have proof positive that guns don't make you safer. Buy a lot of > guns and you either get shot in the no knock raid or get the FBI to burn > down your house. See even in the paranoid mindset of tpg there are good reasons > to support gun control. Once again, Phill lets us all know that might makes right -- but ONLY for the all-sacred government. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Re: SHARKS: Kingston Fired!!! In article <1993Apr23.063205.26192@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes: >In article <1993Apr22.212219.23130@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> spiegel@sgi501.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Spiegel) writes: >>In article <1993Apr21.234022.2880@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes: > >> I said Gund will have to open his *CHECKBOOK*, I didn't say give up >> any draft picks or promising talent. If we could have gotten >> Murphy for the $2M great, but I agree the Sharks shouldn't give >> up young talent or early round draft picks. I listed Chelios et al >> only to indicate the *TYPE* of player I think the Sharks need to pick >> up. The rules on signing free agents less than 30 years old puts >> a big restriction on what the Sharks can pick up. However, I do >> believer they need to pick up some players who will add toughness >> to the team. > >But you have to remember that you're unlikely to get any real quality free >agents who do not require compensation. The Sharks tried, with Makarov, who >was probably the top of the class among non-compensation free agents, but even >he probably wouldn't have helped too much. > Don't expect to get top quality, just some toughness. I don't view Makarov as a player who would add toughness. >>>Size hopefully won't be much of a worry next year. Alexander Cherbayev and >>>Michal Sykora have agreed to multi-year contracts, and it appears that Mike >>>Rathje will also sign soon. All three are pretty big. >> >> Size alone isn't enough. We all know how much fear Kolstad (6-6) >> struck in the eyes of opponents NOT! > >Well, Rathje and Sykora are both highly touted prospects, unlike Kolstad... >And Cherbayev was initially supposed to play for the Russian WC Team. (Anybody >know what happened there?) That means that he's likely to be good enough. > Nelson, you're confusing skill and toughness. >>>McGill/Hammond -> Johan Garpenlov. Would you really rather have those two >>>instead of Johan? >> >> By your logic then you enjoy having Falloon and Ozolinsh on >> injured reserve? > >By your logic then you think that if the Sharks had kept McGill and Hammond >that you can guarantee that Falloon and Ozolinsh wouldn't have gotten hurt? >(Think again; there was a chance that McGill would have caused Ozolinsh to get >stuck at KC, and as you know, Hammond is worthless, and McGill is almost >worthless.) > >>>Well, Wilson, maybe, but I don't think Falloon and Ozolinsh were really >>>injured on cheapshots. >> >> who said they were? > >If they weren't then, I don't see any justification that having McGill and >Hammond around would prevent their injuries. If the injuries of Falloon and >Ozolinsh were purely accidental, then what could McGill and Hammond have done >to prevent them? > Hey, get off the McGill/Hammond thing. I'm no fan of either. My point is that last year the Sharks had toughness that was missing this year. This year we had more skill, I'm all for that, but if your skill players keep getting beat up and injured they can't do you much good. Whether it's a cheap shot or not you can't let the other teams push you around. The 1992-93 Sharks simply got pushed around to much. Other teams knew this. They knew they could aggressively check the Sharks and not pay for it. Adding some players in the off season who will add some toughness to the team will help insure that next season other teams will be more hesistant to vigorously check our skill players, or to take cheap shots. It doesn't guarantee no injuries (nothing does), but it's something the Sharks can do to reduce the number of injuries. mark just say ##### # # # ###### # # ##### ____ # # # # # # # # # # # # -_ --__ # # # # # # # # # # \ --_ ##### ####### # # ###### ### ##### \ -_ # # # ####### # # # # # | \ # # # # # # # # # # # # __________ / \_____ ##### # # # # # # # # ##### ___________ / \_____ ______________________________________________________________________________ Mark Spiegel spiegel@lmsc.lockheed.com Cow Palace:108/K/8 Epicenter: ? ",10 "Re: NHLPA poll (partial stats/results) All these people who send in their polls should take a closer look at NJD, they are a very deep team, with two very capable goalies, and excellent forwards and defensemen. Shooter in Richer, an all around do it all in Todd, chef Stasny-master of a thousand dishes, power play captain-Stevens. Take a look at the numbers, or play with them and see for yourselves. ",10 "1989 Honda CRX for sale My friend, David Gordon wants to sell his 1989 Honda. Some of the details of th e car are as follows: Five speed A/c, AM/FM/Cassette stereo ps/pb Rear window defroster EXCELLENT CONDITION Asking 6400.00 OBO. Please call him at (708) 257-0518. ",7 "Secret ceremonies (was Re: Mormon Temples) shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker) writes: >In article >mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server) writes: > >>I don't necessarily object to the secrecy but I do question it, since I see >no >>Biblical reason why any aspect of Christian worship should involve secrecy. > >Early in Church history, the catechumens were dismissed prior to the >celebration >of the Eucharist. It WAS secret, giving rise to the rumors that Christians >were cannibals and all sorts of perverse claims. The actions were considered >too holy to be observed by non-Christians, as well as potentially dangerous >for the individual Christian who might be identified. > >Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com) [.sig deleted for brevity] Larry - Thanks for the reply, but this isn't quite the same thing. Like I said before, I can understand why non-Christians would be denied *access* to holy ceremonies, but the ceremony itself (communion) was not secret. In fact, all four gospels record the first ""breaking of the bread"" in some detail. Communion was a fellowship meal, and it was (and still should be, in my opinion) inappropriate to invite those who did not share in the fellowship of the Body of Christ. The fact that unbelievers, denied access to these communal meals, began to imagine all sorts of secret and debased rituals during communion does not by any means imply that the early Christians were in fact hiding shameful things from the general public. In fact, I think if you read some of the early church fathers, you will find that they were not at all bashful about describing what went on during communion. That's why it seems funny to me when Mormons, who claim to be the only true restoration of 1st century Christianity, insist on hiding certain rituals on the grounds that they are ""too sacred."" - Mark [Actually, that's not quite the case. John omits the central elements of the Last Supper. His Gospel is full of symbolism of bread and wine. But the actual story isn't there. Some people think he has omitted some of the details because they were not talked about in public in his community. There is also evidence that some aspects of baptismal practice were kept secret. See Morton Smith's ""Secret Gospel"" -- I don't agree with his lurid speculations on what the secret practices actually were, but there does seem to be some evidence that Mark omitted certain details because they were inappropriate for publication. --clh] ",15 "Sega Genesis plus 9 sports games for sale FOR SALE 1 Sega Genesis (including all cables, manuals, boxes) 1 controller 9 games, including all manuals and boxes: Sonic the Hedgehog Road Rash John Madden Football '92 N.H.L. Hockey Sportstalk Baseball Bulls vs. Lakers and the N.B.A. Playoffs John Madden Football '93 N.H.L.P.A. Hockey Super Monaco GP II All of the above for $300 (or best offer); price includes UPS COD shipping. Send e-mail to erc@zabriskie.berkeley.edu if interested. -eric -- eric ng erc@zabriskie.berkeley.edu ...!ucbvax!zabriskie!erc ",6 "Re: what is the deal with ""blue-book"" value of an auto? Mail bounced, so... In article <1993Apr22.143709.13360@news.eng.convex.com> you write: >i am in the process of buying a new auto. i haven't decided yet whether >i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new >auto purchase. Traditional wisdom says you are almost certainly better off selling it yourself if you don't mind that extra hassle. Having a trade-in on a purchase just makes getting the best price from a dealership more confusing. >i know that the ""blue book"" value for the car is $2825. I assume this is _retail_ bluebook. There are two bluebook prices, one for retail and one for wholesale. You really want the retail price if you can get it. The blue books also have adjustments you can make for low mileage and extras on your particular car. You should look all this stuff up yourself. Also keep in mind that the blue book prices are averages over the country that may not apply in your area. For example, blue book prices are low for California. A better way of finding out how much your car might be worth is to call around and see what it's selling for (if any used lots have one) or looking in local papers for similar cars and checking out the prices. It might be more time efficient to take a small loss (rather than hold out for 6 months for the best price). >an acquaintence >has offered to give me blue book value for the car. I don't know what you mean by ""an acquaintance"" but I would make darn sure that I was paid, that is, cashier's check in full before delivery. There's a real temptation when selling to a pseudo-friend to be more accomodating than you should. Make sure you get the money and if they hedge about paying in full at the start (with a cashier's check or cash) then I would go elsewhere. Rememeber that you can probably sell your car to a used car lot or wholesaler and get wholesale bluebook. That's probably a safer approach than selling to a private party. -- -- Alan # Mountain Dew and doughnuts... ..!ames!elroy!alan # because breakfast is the most important meal alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov # of the day. ",7 "Re: Buying a high speed v.everything modem In article <1993Apr20.001127.4928@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu> behr@math.ilstu.edu (Eric Behr) writes: > >The AT&T Dataport earns nearly unanimous praises for reliability. They are >backordered at the moment, probably because of the special $299 price in >effect until May. Its fax capabilities are worse than that of the other two >modems. WARNING: AT&T ads say that the modem comes with a Mac kit (cables & >all), and has lifetime warranty. This applies *only* when you order >directly from Paradyne! I called ElekTek (one of the distributors), and >they wanted to charge me $16 for cable, and gave only 1 year warranty... > Hmm, I don't know where this information concerning the cable and the warranty came from but I ordered mine from Logos Communications, near Cleveland, and inside was a Mac cable (with the correct pin connections :-)) and a lifetime warranty. The whole package was assembled at AT&T Paradyne, and every piece (the serial cable, the telephone cable, etc.) had AT&T part numbers on them, except the QuickLink software package and the CompuServe intro kit. >-- >Eric Behr, Illinois State University, Mathematics Department >behr@math.ilstu.edu or behr@ilstu.bitnet (please avoid!) If anyone's interested, Logos number is (800) 837-7777. I ordered mine last Wednesday and got my modem on Friday, though it's not to far from Cleveland to Pittsburgh.. :-) On the down side they only ship UPS COD. - Chris +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Christopher P. Dingman | | Electrical and Computer Eng. Dept. dingman@ece.cmu.edu | | Carnegie Mellon University (412) 268-7119 | | 5000 Forbes Ave | | Pittsburgh, PA 15213 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",4 "Re: Bayesian Statistics, theism and atheism In article <1993Apr24.165301.8321@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes: #In article <1quei1$8mb@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #>In article <1993Apr15.181924.21026@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes: [I write:] #>>> Imagine that 1000000 Alterian dollars turn up in your bank account every #>>> month. Suppose further that this money is being paid to you by (a) your #>>> big-hearted Alterian benefactor, or (b) a bug in an Alterian ATM. Let's #>>> suppose that this is a true dichotomy, so P(a)+P(b)=1. Trouble is, Alterius #>>> is in a different universe, so that no observations of Alterius are possible #>>> (except for the banks - you couldn't possibly afford it ;-) #>>> #>>> Now let's examine the case for (a). There is no evidence whatsoever that #>>> there is any such thing as a big-hearted Alterian benefactor. However, #>>> P(exists(b-h A b)) + P(not(exists(b-h A b)) = 1. On the grounds that #>>> lack_of_evidence_for is evidence_against when we have a partition like #>>> that, we dismiss hypothesis (a). #>>> #>>> Turning, therefore, to (b), we also find no evidence to support that #>>> hypothesis. On the same grounds as before, we dismiss hypothesis (b). #>>> #>>> The problem with this is that we have dismissed *all* of the possible #>>> hypotheses, and even though we know by construction that the money #>>> arrives every month, we have proven that it can't, because we #>>> have dismissed all of its potential causes. # #>> That's an *extremely* poor argument, and here's why. #>> #>> Premise 1: ""...this money is being paid to you by [either] (a) your big- #>> hearted Alterian benefactor, or (b) a bug in an Alterian ATM"". #>> #>> Thus each monthly appearance of the bucks, should it happen, is an #>> observation on Alterius, and by construction, is evidence for the #>> existence of [either the benefactor or the bug in the ATM]. #>> #>> Premise 2: no observations on Alterius are possible. # #> #> (except for the banks - you couldn't possibly afford it ;-) #> #> You forgot to include this. My premise is actually: #> #> Premise 2: The cardinality of the set of possible observations on Alterius #> is one. # #>> This is clearly contradictory to the first. # #> Not if you state it properly. # #>> Trouble is, on the basis of premise 2, you say that there can be no evidence #>> of [either the benefactor or the bug], but the first premise leads to the #>> conclusion that the appearance of the bucks, should it happen, is evidence #>> for the existence of [either the benefactor or the bug]. #>> #>> Voila, a screaming contradiction. # #[with my highlights - SC] #> But in a strawman argument. There is only evidence for OneOf(Benefactor,Bug). #> No observation to distinguish Benefactor from Bug is possible. That is #> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ #> not evidence for Bug, and neither is it evidence for Benefactor. Nor #> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ #> is true to say that this hypothetical universe appears exactly as #> if there were no Benefactor/Bug (two statements, both would be false). # #This is still contradictory. It reduces to # # (1): Alterian dosh arriving in my account is due to [benefactor or bug]. # # (2): this is not evidence for [benefactor], neither is it evidence for # [bug] (meaning that it doesn't lend more weight to one than to the # other) # # (3): therefore no evidence can exist for [benefactor] and no evidence # can exist for [bug]. # #But (3) relies on a shift in meaning from (2). When you say (paraphrased) #in (2) that this is not ""evidence for [benefactor]"", for example, what you #mean is that it's no *more* evidence for [benefactor] than it is for [bug]. Yes, that's what I mean. #In (3), however, you've shifted the meaning of ""evidence for [benefactor]"" #so that it now means `absolute' ""evidence for [benefactor]"" rather than #`relative' ""evidence for [benefactor]"" w.r.t. [bug]. Not really, I meant evidence that would tend to one over the other. I think this is just a communications problem. What I am trying to say, in my clumsy way, is that while I buy your theory as far as it relates to theism making predictions (prayer, your 'Rapture' example), I don't buy your use of Occam's razor in all cases where A=0. In my example, one couldn't dismiss [benefactor] or [bug] on the grounds of simplicity - one of these is necessary to explain the dosh. I brought up the 'one-by-one dismissal' process to show that it would be wrong to do so. From what you're saying in this post, it seems you agree, and we're talking at cross-purposes. #(3) is still in contradiction to (1). # #Some sums may help. With B = benefactor, b = bug, d = dosh arrives in account: # # (1) implies P(B+b | d) = 1 # #Assuming that P(Bb | d) = 0, so it's either the benefactor *or* a bug #which is responsible if the bucks arrive, but not both, then # # P(B+b | d) = P(B | d) + P(b | d) # #so # # P(B | d) + P(b | d) = 1 # #but (3) implies that # # P(B | d) = 0 and P(b | d) = 0. No, this isn't what I meant. P(B | d) = 0.5 and P(b | d) = 0.5, with necessarily no new observation (we've already seen the dosh) to change those estimates. I was trying to say (again, in my clumsy way) that it would be _wrong_ to assign 0 probability to either of these. And that's precisely what use of the Razor does in the case of gods - gods are one class of hypothesis (there are many others) belonging to a set of hypotheses _one_of_which_ is necessary to explain something which otherwise would _not_ be satisfactorily explained. It can be thrown out or retained on grounds of non-rational preference, not of science or statistics. Alternatively, one could chuck out or retain the lot, on the grounds that the answer can't be known, or that the notional probability estimates are effectively useless, being equal (agnosticism/weak atheism). #> As they do when the set M is filled by ""the universe is caused by x"", #> where x is gods, pink unicorns, nothing, etc. - and no observation #> tends to one conclusion over the other. # #Exactly the point I was making, I think. So we don't ""throw out"" any of #these, contrary to your assertion above that we do. Some people do, Simon, and they think they are doing excellent science. My sole point was that they aren't. #>> Only observations which directly contradict the hypothesis H[i] (i.e. x #>> where P(x | H[i]) = 0) can cause P(H[i]) to go to zero after a finite #>> number of observations. Only in this case do we get to throw any of the #>> hypotheses out. # #> Exactly my point, though I may have been unclear. # #You said the diametric opposite, which I guess is the source of my confusion. I was merely trying to illustrate the incorrectness of doing so. #> What I'm trying to say is that while you are correct to say that absence of #> evidence can sometimes be evidence of absence, this does not hold true for #> all, or perhaps any, versions of theism - and it isn't true that those for #> which it does not hold can be discarded using the razor. # #On the contrary, those for which it does not hold are *exactly* those which #can be discarded using the Razor. See my post on the other branch of this #thread. Then you seem to be guilty of the contradiction you accuse me of. If the razor holds for gods, then it holds for all like hypotheses. Which means that you're assigning P(x | H[i]) =0 for all i, though we've already established that it's not correct to do so when SUM(P(x|H[i]))=1 over all i. #> Simply put, anyone who claims to have a viable proof of the existence or #> non-existence of gods, whether inductive or no, is at best mistaken, and #> at worst barking mad. # #Luckily I make no such claim, and have specifically said as much on numerous #occasions. You wouldn't be constructing a strawman here, would you Frank? #Although that doesn't, of course, rule out my being barking mad in any case #(I could be barking mad in my spare time, with apologies to Cleese et al). # #But I think you miss the point once again. When I say that something is #""evidence against"" an hypothesis, that doesn't imply that observation of #the said something necessarily *falsifies* the hypothesis, reducing the #estimate of P(H | data) to zero. If it *reduces* this quantity, it's still #evidence against H. No, I got that. I'm talking about the case when A=0. You're clearly correct when A!=0. And I'm not constructing a strawman (though it's certainly possible that I've misunderstood what you're saying). However, by any standards, a system that says when A=0, gods are highly unlikely, and when A!=0 gods can be dismissed using the Razor, is a system purporting to be an inductive proof that gods either don't exist, or are unnecessary to explain any or all phenomena. In my experience, systems such as this (including those which purport to prove that gods exist) always contain a fallacy upon close examination. If that's not what you're saying, then please put me straight. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "WANTED/Summer Housing/Seattle(Univ of Washington) Summer Housing needed-at University of Washington, Seattle. ---------------------------------------------------------- Hi I am looking for a place to stay for the summer at the University of Washington, Seattle, where I would be doing an internship. If any of you from UofW Seattle, has got some kind of space for summer sublet, please send an email/call to me. I expect to start my internship in the first week of June. -Koshy George george@cs.umass.edu Koshy George, 54, Puffton Village, Amherst, MA, 01002. 413-549-7373 H 413-545-2014 O ------------------- ",6 "Re: Saudi clergy condemns debut of human rights group! In article <39898@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes: >In article benali@alcor.concordia.ca ( ILYESS B. BDIRA ) writes: >>It looks like Ben Baz's mind and heart are also blind, not only his eyes. >>I used to respect him, today I lost the minimal amount of respect that >>I struggled to keep for him. >>To All Muslim netters: This is the same guy who gave a ""Fatwah"" that >>Saudi Arabia can be used by the United Ststes to attack Iraq . > >They were attacking the Iraqis to drive them out of Kuwait, >a country whose citizens have close blood and business ties >to Saudi citizens. And me thinks if the US had not helped out >the Iraqis would have swallowed Saudi Arabia, too (or at >least the eastern oilfields). And no Muslim country was doing >much of anything to help liberate Kuwait and protect Saudi >Arabia; indeed, in some masses of citizens were demonstrating >in favor of that butcher Saddam (who killed lotsa Muslims), >just because he was killing, raping, and looting relatively >rich Muslims and also thumbing his nose at the West. The whole ""saddam is going to invade Saudi Arabia"" was nothing but US State Department propeganda. Saddam (and Iraq in general) never recognised the British created Kuwait. They were trying to recover land they believed was theirs, much like the Argentines in the Faulklands. The Kuwaitis pushed just a little too far by taking Iraqi oil and Saddam thought he'd settle the dispute the old fashioned way... Everybody would have been much better off had they left the reunited Iraq together and concentrated on taking out Saddam. A strong, united Iraq with an elected government would have gone a long way to ridding the world of the feudal dictatorships in the Gulf. But of course a weak divided Arab people better suits US foriegn policy... The US had no problem killing tens of thousands of ill-equipted Iraqi soldiers, including burying several thousand alive and slaughtering retreating batallions from the air in defense of Kuwaiti oil, but it has yet to lift a finger against Bosnian Serbs while they slaughter Bosnian muslims.... ",17 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding On 21-Apr-93 in Re: ABORTION and private he.. user Not a Boomer@desire.wrig writes: > And while courts have found it ok to charge women less for auto >insurance, it's illegal to charge them more for health insurance (because they >live longer) or make them pay more into retirement funds so the legal arena >isn't being 100% consistent on the gender issue. Not so in PA. Recently the gender inequity in auto insurance was removed. Just a point. ",19 "Re: PCX In article <1993Apr14.220100.17867@freenet.carleton.ca> ad994@Freenet.carleton.ca (Jason Wiggle) writes: >From: ad994@Freenet.carleton.ca (Jason Wiggle) >Subject: PCX >Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 22:01:00 GMT > >Hello > HELP!!! please > I am a student of turbo c++ and graphics programming > and I am having some problems finding algorithms and code > to teach me how to do some stuff.. > > 1) Where is there a book or code that will teach me how > to read and write pcx,dbf,and gif files? > > 2) How do I access the extra ram on my paradise video board > so I can do paging in the higher vga modes ie: 320x200x256 > 800x600x256 > 3) anybody got a line on a good book to help answer these question? > >Thanks very much ! > >send reply's to : Palm@snycanva.bitnet > >Peace be >Blessed be >Stephen Palm A book that I can somewhat recommend is : Pratical Image Processing in C by Craig A. Lindley published by Wiley It addresses reading/writing to/from PCX/TIFF files; image acquisition, manipulation and storage; and has source code in the book. The source is primarily written in Turbo C and naturally has conversion possibilities. I have converted some of it to Quick C. Naturally, the code has some problems in the book - as usuall. Typos, syntax, etc. are problems. It can be a good learning experience for someone who is studying C. There is also a companion disk with source available for order and $50.00. Overall, the book is not bad. I acquired the book at WaldenSoftware. ",1 "Baseball card FOR SALE I have a Roberto Clemente 1969 Topps baseball card for sale, in near-mint condition (really as close to mint condition as you can get). It lists for $55 in my most recent baseball card pricelist for May. I am offering it for $50 and I'll pay the certified postage to ship it to you. Please respond to Jack.T.Sendak@office.wang.com or at 1-800-999-3732 ext. 5269 in Maryland. ",6 "Re: Thoughts on a 1982 Yamaha Seca Turbo? In a previous article, howp@skyfox () says: >I was wondering if anybody knows anything about a Yamaha Seca Turbo. I'm >considering buying a used 1982 Seca Turbo for $1300 Canadian (~$1000 US) >with 30,000 km on the odo. This will be my first bike. Any comments? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Because of this I cannot in good faith recommend a Seca Turbo. Power delivery is too uneven for a novice. The Official (tm) Dod newbie bike of choice would be more appropriate because the powerband is so wide and delivery is very smooth. Perfect for the beginner. -- DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________ ",8 "Re: Recommendations for a Local BUS (Cached) IDE Controller On 15 Apr 1993 20:14:20 GMT Divya Sundaram (sundaram@egr.msu.edu) wrote: | I would like to hear the net.wisdom and net.opinions on IDE Controllers. | I would liek to get a IDE controller card for my VLB DX2 66 Motherboard. | What are good options for this (preferably under $200). It MUST also work | under OS/2 and be compatible with Stacker (and other Disk Compression S/W). I have a Maxtor 212MB on an ISA IDE controller, although my machine is DX2/66 VLB. I has the save transfer rate of 0.647 MB/s regardless of the variations of the ISA bus speed. I tested it with speed between 5.5MHz and 8.33MHz. Not _any_ difference. The problem is not the interface between the controller and the memory. My advice: Buy 4Megs of RAM, save $70 and enjoy performance. -- Penio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu Disclaimer: All oppinions are mine. ",3 "Re: JFFO has gone a bit too far rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat) writes: >|>Would somebody please post evidence that the gun control act of >|>1968 is ""a verbatim transcription"" of a nazi law? >|The ""evidence"" is that the two laws are basically identical. >|However, that's not evidence that one is a copy of the other. >|There's no evidence that the 68 GCA's authors used the nazi law as a >|guide. Yes, they ended up with roughly the same thing, but that comes >|from their shared goal, disarming those menacing minorities. >I thought the same thing too, until JPFO's RKBA article >in the latest Guns & Ammo >at the newstands. This article makes it certain that Sen. Thomas Dodd >(D-MD?) back before 1968 definitely asked for a translation of the >German weapons laws back then. Read the article, and see what you think >of JPFO's argument. They note that Ted Kennedy and John Dingell are >among the three of the originals left from the 1968 stuff, and they >are asking that folks request of John Dingell that he introduce >legislation to lift GCA '68, something which I would support whole- >heartedly! >|-andy Can someone post a general idea of what GCA '68 does? Thanks. ",16 "Re: Duo Dock problems In phil@csc.liv.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson) writes: >Has anyone had any problems with their Duo Dock not ejecting the Duo >properly? >When I first got it, the Duo would come out of the Dock a couple of inches >when ejected, and I had to pull it the rest of the way. Nowadays (and I've >had the system for 4 months), the Duo doesn't come out *at* *all* - despite >the fact that the mechanism makes all the appropriate noises, and I have to >grab hold of it and pull it out myself. Is there a simple fix for this, or >do I have to return it to my Apple Dealer, where it will languish for weeks >while I have to make do with no colour display, no VRAM, no floppy or >SCSI etc. >(BTW, it's not that the Duo is locked into the Dock - it just doesn't >want to slide out any more). >-- >Phil Jimmieson, *********************************************** >Computer Science Dept., * JANET : phil@uk.ac.liv.csc * >Liverpool University, * INTERNET : phil@csc.liv.ac.uk * >PO Box 147 *********************************************** >Liverpool L69 3BX ""I was head over heels in love until I got cramp"" >(UK) 051-794-3689 Also, has anyone heard any rumors that the new docks (the ones with the CPU :-) will be better designed that this first batch? I love my Duo, but installing cards in the dock is not much fun. -Bob -- Bob Lord 100 South Wacker Room 932 Network Manager Chicago IL, 60606 CSTaR Group, Andersen Consulting 312-507-5353 lord@andersen.com ",4 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr20.003522.22480@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes... >In article <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: >>Now that Big Brother has rubbed out one minority religion in Waco, who is >>next? The Mormons or Jews? > >The Koreshians rubbed themselves out. Neither Mormons nor Jews have a >propensity for dousing themselves with kerosene, so I'm not particularly >concerned. (Or shall we blame Jim Jones on the government also?) > >Be thankful that the BATF standoff at least got some of the kids out before >the cult committed mass suicide. > Dont you believe that the Branch Davidians committed suicide for one minute. I would not put it past the FBI to lob in some incendiary grenades while they feed your their story. Don't ever ever trust what your wonderful government tells you. Janet Reno and the FBI have the murder of a hundred people on their hands. Hope they can sleep at night.... P.Vasilion, kb2nmv SUNY @ BUFFALO <> ""All you cult haters happy now? Just hope that your not next."" ",16 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card In article <1993Apr15.184452.27322@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) says: > >In article <93104.231049U28037@uicvm.uic.edu> Jason Kratz > >>All your points are very well taken and things that I haven't considered as >>I am not really familiar enough with handguns. > >That's not all that Kratz doesn't know. > >>Hell, a Glock is the last thing that should be switched to. The only thing >>that I know about a Glock is the lack of a real safety on it. Sure there is >>that little thing in the trigger but that isn't too great of a safety. > >Now we know that Kratz doesn't understand what a safety is supposed to >do. (He also confuses ""things he can see"" with ""things that exist""; >Glocks have multiple safeties even though only one is visible from the >outside.) > Excuse me but I do know what I safety is supposed to do. It's basic purpose - not to let the gun fire until you're ready. Christ, I've known that since I had my first Crosman air gun. You don't know me so don't make assumptions about what I know and don't know. I do know that the Glock has multiple safties from reports, looking at them at a gun shop, and friends who own one. >A safety is supposed to keep the gun from going off UNLESS that's >what the user wants. With Glocks, one says ""I want the gun to go >off"" by pulling the trigger. If the safeties it has make that work, >it has a ""real"" safety, no matter what Kratz thinks. > >-andy >-- From the things I have read/heard Glocks are always knocked because of the trigger safety. They are supposedly harder to learn to use properly. Every article that I have read can't be wrong about the damn thing. And don't ask me to quote my sources because I don't keep a ton of gun magazines and/or rec.guns articles laying around. Boy, you can't make a simple statement on here without someone getting right on your ass. No wonder why there are so many problems in the world. Everyone takes everything just a little too seriously. By the way, I'm not going to reply to any of this stuff anymore as someone made the good point that this discussion is getting too close to r.g (And yes I know that I had something to do with that). Jason ",16 "HELP: Promplem with Panasonic kx-1124 printer folks, I have a Panasonic kx-1124 (just inherited with no documentation) which is giving me a problem that i cant resolve. The paper out light refuses to go out . It starts to blink when ever i turn the power on which 2 beeps. It does allow be to go on line with green light lit, simultanously the red paper out light also remains lit -but is does not blink. Please do not give any references to manuals , as i dont have any. Thanking you all very much in advance. Sincerely Dharmesh ",3 "Re: NEWS YOU WILL MISS, Apr 15 Sorry, ARF - you dog, That news was suppressed because the Israeli national volleyball team repeatedly spiked it. Let this be a lesson to others not to invoke the wrath of sports nuts. (Brits lead the way in this regard, with ~220 casualties in the last 2 years.) Anyway, Yigal would never sue. His life is (presumably) so pristine that its most intimate details could be revealed without harm to anyone. Might even be good instruction for some people I can think of. Me, I _would_ sue! I hate the way sports dominates the media. Anyway, the last 3 ADL agents watching me die of boredom before filing their reports. I've damaged their Atlanta operation something fierce. ",17 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 (SILLY) Mark A. Cartwright (markc@emx.utexas.edu) wrote: : Well, : : 42 is 101010 binary, and who would forget that its the : answer to the Question of ""Life, the Universe, and Everything else."" : That is to quote Douglas Adams in a round about way. : : Of course the Question has not yet been discovered... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ But it WAS discovered (sort of). The question was ""What is 7 times 8?"" When Arthur Dent objected that this was, unfortunately, factually inaccurate, the effort to discover the question was begun all over. This last effort was, I believe, likely to take far longer than the lifespan of the universe, in fact several lifespans of same! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Wilson, Online Computer Systems. 1-800-922-9204 or 1-301-601-2215 (Try email address mark@ocsmd.ocs.com....) This file .disclaims everything signed with my .signature, I .mean it! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",1 "Re: Live Free, but Quietly, or Die In rec.motorcycles egreen@east.sun.com writes: ;Revving the throttle requires either [dis]engaging the clutch, ;or accelerating. Not if it's a Harley. --- chris ",8 "Telcom wiring question...need help I've got two lines coming into my apartment. Two different telephone numbers. When I ordered the second line installed, instead of bringing out another 4 wire bundle, the telco just connected up to my yellow and black wires. So I have one line on red & green and the other on yellow & black. Today I was monitoring the voltage on both lines. I had a voltmeter across the red and green and read back 52 volts. I then lifted up the receiver on my second line.(black & yellow wires) The voltage dropped to 31 volts on the first line. (red & green wires) I repeated this experiment with the second line(monitoring black & yellow and lifting the handset off the cradle on the red and green line.) It also dropped to 31 volts. Why is this ? I thought these were separate lines. Next I went to the 66 block and disconnected the blue and white lines coming in from the telco cable. I then disconnected all the phones in my apartment and went back to the 66 block and did some resistance measurements. Both lines read open. I'll appreciate any help on this. Is this considered normal ? Guy Urbina Urbina@novax.llnl.gov ",12 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies In article <1993Apr19.164842.18206@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >Is it possible to do a ""wheelie"" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive? > >Mike Terry No. At least, that's what I told the NASA rent-a-cop that stopped me because he swore I was ""lifting it up."" He didn't completely buy the part about water in the carbs, either. Phil Stone NEW ADDRESS----------> pstone@well.sf.ca.us '83 R80ST ""Motorcycles OK"" ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.010329.23133@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith ""Justified And Ancient"" Cochran) writes: >>[Followups set out of talk.abortion...] >> >>In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >>>Am I reading this thread wrong or is this just another bemoaning of the fact >>>that Christianity has a code of objective morality? >> >>Please define this ""objective morality"". >> >>While you're at it, please state the theory of creationism. >Still searching for an irrelevant issue in which to mire a pro-lifer, I see. >Slimy tactic. > - Kevin Well, when you crosspost to talk.origins, what do you expect? -- | Michael Agney | Just because you're paranoid | | | doesn't mean they're not out | | | to get you. | | magney@cco.caltech.edu | | ",19 "Re: Level 5? In article <19930422.121236.246@almaden.ibm.com>, Wingert@vnet.IBM.COM (Bret Wingert) writes: > 3. The Onboard Flight Software project was rated ""Level 5"" by a NASA team. > This group generates 20-40 KSLOCs of verified code per year for NASA. Will someone tell an ignorant physicist where the term ""Level 5"" comes from? It sounds like the RISKS Digest equivalent of Large, Extra Large, Jumbo... Or maybe it's like ""Defcon 5..."" I gather it means that Shuttle software was developed with extreme care to have reliablility and safety, and almost everything else in the computing world is Level 1, or cheesy dime-store software. Not surprising. But who is it that invents this standard, and how come everyone but me seems to be familiar with it? Of course, what Shakespeare | Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey ORIGINALLY wrote was ""First thing | Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory we do, let's kill all the EDITORS.""| Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET But for some reason it didn't | Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV survive past the first draft. | SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS -- David D. ""Laserdave"" Levine (davidl@ssd.intel.com) ",14 "Serdar What are you, retarded? --- ProLine: cosmo@pro-angmar Internet: cosmo@pro-angmar.alfalfa.com UUCP: uunet!bu.edu!alphalpha!pro-angmar!cosmo ",17 "Re: HPGL viewer and utilities In article <27APR93.23959946.0053@music.mus.polymtl.ca> ""Gaetan Lord, Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal"" writes: Hi I would like to know if there is any software, PD or not, who could produce X11 output of HPGL file on RS/6000. And same kind of software who could produce hardcopy on postscript and lasetjet. Try export.lcs.mit.edu. I think that there is a viewer there called xviewgl. Check the README in /contrib. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bill Woodward | wpwood@austin.ibm.com <-- Try this first AIX Software Support | billw@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com Graphics Group | 512-838-2834 I am the terror that flaps in the night. ",1 "Danny Rubenstein Talk Danny Rubenstein, an Israeli journalist, will be speaking tonight (Wednesday, 7:30 pm) on the messy subject of politics in Israel. He is speaking at Hillel on the U.C. Berkeley campus. The talk is sponsored by the Berkeley Israel Action Committee (IAC). -Adam Schwartz adams@robotics.berkeley.edu ",17 "Re: free moral agency Kent Sandvik (sandvik@newton.apple.com) wrote: : I agree, I had a hard feeling not believing my grand-grand mother : who told me of elves dancing outside barns in the early mornings. : I preferred not to accept it, even if her statement provided : the truth itself. Life is hard. Kent, Truly a brilliant rebuttal. Apparently you are of the opinion that ridicule is a suitable substitute for reason; you'll find plenty of company a.a Bill ",0 "Re: Gateway 4DX-33V - too high a price? >Well, Gateway faxed me a price sheet just now. It seems >to be on the higher side, but then again, maybe not. > 80486DX 33 MHz > 8MB DRAM(70 ns SIMMS) expandable to 64MB > 250 MB Western Digital IDE (13 ms) 17Mb DTR > Local Bus IDE interface > ATI Ultra Pro VL bus with 1MB VRAM and 24 bit drivers > 15"" CrystalScan 1572FS color monitor > All for $2445 This isn't at all too high of a price. Keep in mind that you get *8* meg of ram, a *local bus* IDE *and* SVGA card, a *250* mb hd, and a *15""* monitor. The local bus IDE and SVGA really kick butt in Windows. I have used a couple of machines with VLB in the past, and all I can do is praise Gateway. ------------------------------------------------------------ Mike Bitz Internet: bitzm@columbia.dsu.edu Research and Development bitzm@dsuvax.dsu.edu Dakota State University Bitnet: s93020@sdnet.bitnet ",3 "Re: re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article <1993May17.064503.13114@microsoft.com> cliffga@microsoft.com (Clifford Garrett) writes: >/Yes, a lot of what OS/2 2.0 has in common with OS/2 1.x was written by you >/guys. However, many of the things that made OS/2 2.0 so much more successful >/(Win-OS/2, Workplace Shell) than previous versions were IBM work. > >Yes, certainly. It was IBM that wrote the Windows code!!! > >c Isn't this the point of ""a better windows than Windoze"". :). -- Brett D. Sherron-Ferrell email@bferrell@uceng.uc.edu U. of Cincy ""Catch the Cats............ College of Engineering ...............If you can"" ",2 "Re: Defense against the detractors... In article <1993Apr2.021154.18039@colorado.edu>, ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU (A.J. Teel) writes... >In article eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes: >>In <1993Apr1.141455.16433@colorado.edu>, ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU sez: >>> (I would have thought you would have found better means >>>of refuting or responding to the substantive points and information in >>>the S.B. >>The S.B. needs no refutation by me. The patent absurdity of your >>beloved Great Book speaks for itself. > Your ignorance is clearly showing itself again, Mark. > Why don't you read the post and show us all where the > Silver Bulletin is wrong. It is an expose' of the > corruption and fraud in government. Or do you feel > that our wonderful state is just nifty and sweet? Fine. If you think it's an expose of corruption and fraud, please prevent a jury question. Don't just reassert your opening statement. >. . . >>For those in the dark, I wrote to Teel's sysadmin noting that a) he >>wastes bandwidth by posting identical messages (long ones) to several >>newsgroups independently (instead of cross-posting), and b) he has >>improperly used his posts to advertise goods for sale. > A) I was requested to post to those groups > and they were getting deleted... By whom? > B) The ""goods for sale"" was a method of showing the > source and obtaining further info... > And the message in question was retrieved in its entirety > from the net. I simply reposted it from one year ago. > Would there be a complaint if I had posted an article from > ""Newsweek"" then posted the address and subscription price? > How about the subscription info for the American Law Review? > Bit of a double standard? Yeah... think so... No indication that was what happened until now. Editing down is always possible. >. . . >>Readers more careful than A.J. will note that the complaint (appended >>below) expressly disclaims any wish to suppress Teel's postings merely >>because they are infantile, irrational, and tedious. > More name calling, Mark? Is that your best shot? > Oh, I see. The reason for your sending that letter > had nothing to do with your opinion of my information... > Right. Clearly your motivations were the best interest > of all of those poor users who could not speak for themselves. > If we weren't talking about attempted censorship(sp?), it > would be funny... > Further, your ""perception"" (for want of a better term) is not > the feedback that I have been getting via email and others. > The ""keep it up!""'s outnumber the ""Go away!""'s at least 20 to 1. It would be interesting to hear who the responding parties are. > I, for one, have no intention of being a slave. You may > be so if you like. Just remember where you heard that > on Tribute Day (April 15). I am not a 14th Amendment > taxpayer/slave/SSN holder/etc. Are you? FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY: Don't let the IRS see this, Mr. Teel. >. . . . > And by the way, the reference to UCC 1-207 is made > in pari materia with my Common-Law Rights. 1-207 > is the recourse and 1-103 is the remedy. And, as has been noted more times than we care to count, about as likely to stand up in court as the twenty-seven eight by ten color glossy pictures the Stockbridge, Mass., police, took for use as evidence against Arlo Guthrie. (As anyone who knows Alice's Restaurant is aware, he pleaded guilty to littering, was fined $50, and told to pick up the garbage.) Daniel Reitman HOW NOT TO WRITE A DEED One case involved the construction of a conveyance to grantees ""jointly, as tenants in common, with equal rights and interest in said land, and to the survivor thereof, in fee simple. . . . To Have and to Hold the same unto the said parties hereto, equally, jointly, as tenants in common, with equal rights and interest for the period or term of their lives, and to the survivor thereof at the death of the other."" The court held that the survivorship provision indicated an intent to create a joint tenancy. Germain v. Delaine, 294 Ala. 443, 318 So.2d 681 (1975). ",18 "Re: Newbie In article , os048@xi.cs.fsu.edu () writes: |> hey there, |> Yea, thats what I am....a newbie. I have never owned a motorcycle, This makes 5! It IS SPRING! |> Matt |> PS I am not really sure what the purpose of this article was but...oh well Neither were we. Read for a few days, then try again. --- Curt Howland ""Ace"" DoD#0663 EFF#569 howland@nsipo.nasa.gov '82 V45 Sabre Meddle not in the afairs of Wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to re-light. ",8 "Re: Noam Chomsky In article <1993Apr5.140122.8232@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) writes: |>In article , de@cup.hp.com (Dan Epstein) writes: |>... |>> territory . Still, it might be possible to subject this theory to something |>> like a controlled experiment, as Chomsky demonstrates by comparing how |>> the American press treated two contemporaneous cases of mass |>> slaughter, in Cambodia and in East Timor. The Cambodian genocide, |>> carried out by ""bad guys"" (as defined by the State Department and |>> corporate interests), met with loud and frequent denunciations. The |>> East Timor genocide, carried out by Indonesian ""good guys,"" went |>> almost unreported. So Chomsky, as a good scientist, verifies his |>> hypothesis -- all the while hoping, we may assume, not to see the |>> experiment repeated too often. |> |> Is Chomsky thus equivacating the genocide in Cambodia with the invasion |>and occupation of E. Timor? |> |> If so, how does he rationalize that? He is claiming that what the Indonesians are up to in East Timor is genocide. Certainly what is going on is serious enough that it is way above the threshold where it should be brought to attention. Pol Pot did not kill nearly as many people as Hitler but he is most certainly as evil. |> If so, how does he explain (away) the difference between an intended |>goal of genocide (Cambodia) and a brutal occupation? He fully accepts the differences in the intentions and situations. What he is saying is that the effect in both cases has been mass murder only we only get to hear about the one that supports the red scare merchants and the behaviour of our allies is conveniently ignored. A starker comparison is in El Salvador where the allegations that the left were repeatedly making throughout the 1980s have been proven with the discovery of mass graves. There was evidence enough at the time that Duarte and his gang of thugs were mass murderers but Regan and Bush ignored it and gave them arms to repress the opposition. This must be contrasted with the events in Nica If so, why isn't he in Australia chanting ""no blood for oil""? Have you any reason to beleive he isn't? Phill Hallam-Baker ",17 "Re: The 'pill' for Deer = No Hunting jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes: > New to this planet ? EVERYTHING is dependent on either public > or political opinion, usually political. To imagine that > inalienable 'rights' are somehow wired into the vast cold > cosmos is purest egotism and a dangerous delusion. ""We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."" Declaration of Independence 4 July 1776 aaron arc@cco.caltech.edu ",16 "Price drop on C650 within 2 months? I am going to be getting a C650 soon, but I don;t want Apple to come out with the Cyclones and the Tempest in a month and have the price drop on the system I want. I have negotiated a good deal with a supplier for a C650 8/80 and I would like to jump on it, but, again, I don't want the price drop to smuther me. BTW, the deal I have is a C650 8/80 with mouse for $2295... does anyone know of a better deal? thanks, -nate ns111310@longs.lance.colostate.edu ",4 "Re: Quadra clock chip - followup I have also moved on to a 66.6 mhz clock. Thus far not problems. I'm not totallysurprised as I've had Q700 run at 35.4 mhz (CPU clock speed) using a VSO. My 25 mhz rated Daystar QuadraCache got very hot at 32 mhz and would fail previously. I glued on a piece of aluminum stock to the hi speed RAM chips and it runs cool without problems at 33.3 mhz. The combination is faster than a Q950. ",4 "CLINTON: AM Press Briefing by Dee Dee Myers 4.20.93 THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _____________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 20, 1993 PRESS BRIEFING BY DEE DEE MYERS The Briefing Room 9:47 A.M. EDT MS. MYERS: Okay, today's schedule. As you know, the President jogged this morning with Senator Wofford. At 1:15 p.m., he will have a photo opportunity in the Rose Garden to present the Teacher of the Year Award. At 1:30 p.m., he will meet with his principal advisors on Bosnia. And at 5:00 p.m., he'll meet with President Vaclav Havel. There will be a photo op at the top of that meeting; no formal press conference afterwards. Any questions? Q Is he moving towards some major decision this week on Bosnia? MS. MYERS: As we've said, he's continuing to discuss his options. He's been talking extensively with his foreign policy advisors, his Bosnia advisors, as well as with other world leaders. He'll try to contact President Mitterrand again today, and he'll continue to discuss it. We don't have any specific timetable, but obviously the situation there is very serious. Q Has he called Janet Reno today or yesterday? MS. MYERS: I don't believe he's spoken to her today. Q Why does he have nothing to say about this publicly except on the piece of paper that was put out last night at 6:40 p.m.? MS. MYERS: He did. He answered a question about it yesterday. Q Before anything had happened. MS. MYERS: Before anything happened. He put out -- Q Since something has happened he's had nothing to say. MS. MYERS: He's put out a statement on it last night. And we'll have more to say about it later today. Q In what forum is that going to be? MS. MYERS: It will be at the photo in the Rose Garden. Q He will talk about Waco at that? MS. MYERS: Yes, he'll have something to say. Q Is that something we can take live? MS. MYERS: I think it will be brief. We can talk a little later about the exact structure as we work it out. But I don't know if it's something you'd want to take live. Q Will he take questions on Waco at that time as well? MS. MYERS: He'll probably take a few. Q Is there any reason why he hasn't talked to the Attorney General? MS. MYERS: I'll have to double-check. I don't know that he hasn't talked to her this morning. Q And she didn't come here this morning to see him or anyone else? MS. MYERS: No. Q And he didn't talk yesterday? Q What's the reaction to her resignation statement that she made last night? MS. MYERS: She was asked a question about it, and she answered the question. The President has absolutely no intention of asking for the Attorney General's resignation. He stands behind her 100 percent. As you know, he was informed about the decision. He takes full responsibility for that, and stands 100 percent behind Attorney General Reno. Q The question now arises -- yesterday we were told that he was briefed on this, but we never got a firm idea of how much he knew of what the plan was and the justification for the plan and the justification of the timing. Was he fully informed on all of that, all of this about the increasing levels of violence inside the compound that made them want to go now, the feeling that nothing else was going to succeed, et cetera? MS. MYERS: He talked with the Attorney General about the decision, about -- she talked to him about the factors that led to her decision. He raised no objections. He supports her decision to go forward with it. He was fully briefed. Q Of course, hindsight is 20-20, but looking back now, does the President, does the White House feel that the decision he signed off on proved to be the right way to go when you look at what actually happened? MS. MYERS: I think everybody feels bad when life is lost. But I don't think that that is reason to second-guess the decision. He stands behind the decision that was made. He was informed about it. He was fully briefed about it and he stands 100 percent behind the Attorney General, the Justice Department and the FBI. It's a difficult operation and there's -- it had already gone on for more than seven weeks. Four federal agents had lost their lives in the line of duty -- let's not forget that. This was a very difficult situation and all the decisions involved were very difficult. But all the agents on the ground, the FBI, the Justice Department all recommended moving forward with this. They thought, given the circumstances, it was the best possible course of action. There's just no point in second- guessing those decisions. Now, I think that there's a reason -- Q Why not? They have to -- MS. MYERS: No, not to second-guess the decisions. I think it's important to take a look at it, to have an investigation. I think the President will talk some about that later today. But at this -- from this vantage point, to second-guess those decisions, it's not useful. Q You sound like he's going to order an investigation of what happened and whether -- MS. MYERS: I think he'll have more to say about that later, yes. Q He will order an investigation? MS. MYERS: He'll have more -- yes -- he'll have more to say about an investigation. Q What kind of investigation? MS. MYERS: He'll have more to say about it later. Q But in the Monday morning quarterbacking, surely there is some soul-searching now as to whether it was the right decision. You can't say that we did the best we could when it turned out to be a rather -- a debacle. MS. MYERS: I think we'll -- obviously, we'll review the situation and all the factors that lead to a very tragic outcome. I don't think anybody disputes that the outcome was tragic. But, again, the President stands behind the decisions that were made and we'll take a look at the factors that contributed to that. Q What was the FBI Director's role in this? MS. MYERS: Well, he was obviously involved in setting up the operation. He signed off on it, as did the agents that were on the ground that were working with him. I don't believe he spoke to the President, but I'll double-check that. Q But he was very closely involved in every aspect of planning and so forth? MS. MYERS: I would refer you to the FBI on exactly what aspects he was involved with. Q Will Janet Reno be coming over to the White House today? MS. MYERS: There's no planned meeting. I don't believe that she'll be here. Q She won't be at this event at 1:15 p.m.? MS. MYERS: No, no plans to be. Q Do you think that there's going to be a jumping on on the part of political opposition to make something out of this in terms of -- to the President's detriment politically? MS. MYERS: Well, I would certainly hope that people wouldn't try to use this tragedy for political reasons. Obviously, I think, again, that it's useful to look at the facts, to reevaluate the facts, and I think the President will move forward with that. But I think people understand that this was a difficult series of decisions; that it was a very difficult situation; that it was caused by a man who was a cult leader who was involved in the death of four federal agents. And I think it's most tragic that a lot of innocent children lost their lives in this. I don't think anybody disputes the tragedy of the outcome. Q Dee Dee, what was the White House role in handling the, I guess, public relations aspect in the aftermath? Who was talking -- who here at the White House was talking with people at Justice to set up Reno's news conference, to do all that sort of thing? MS. MYERS: I think the Attorney General handled her end of the situation herself and made the decision to go ahead with the news conference once there was a point at which there was enough information, I think, to talk with some accuracy about what had transpired during the day. Obviously, people here at a number of levels were keeping in touch with people at the Justice Department and at the FBI to try to keep informed about what was happening there. Q But Reno said that she didn't talk to the President, and there seemed to be an indication she hadn't talked to anybody at the White House. So who -- MS. MYERS: There were people talking on a staff-to- staff level. Q I understand. But who at the Justice Department was handling that for Reno? Who was talking to the White House? MS. MYERS: There were a number of people. As you know, Webb Hubbell is the liaison to the White House, and I know he talked to a number of people here. There were a number of people at a number of different levels involved. I don't want to get into exactly who had what conversations with whom, but there were a number of conversations. Obviously, the Justice Department was working to keep the White House informed, the press informed to the best of its ability as events unfolded throughout the day. Q Did Webb Hubbell talk to the President? MS. MYERS: I don't believe so. I don't know if he talked -- he may have at one point. Q And was the White House role just to seek information about what happened, or was it to direct the public information campaign that followed? MS. MYERS: It was both to keep abreast of the situation so the President could be on top of it, but I think the Justice Department managed its press relations on it. We were obviously very interested in what was happening there throughout the day, and the President was following it very closely throughout the day. Q Dee Dee, on that, though, if the President was following it so closely and he had talked the night before with Janet Reno, why wouldn't he talk to her at all since then? MS. MYERS: Again, I don't know if he's talked to her this morning. Again, he's kept fully aware of what has been going on throughout the day. He stands 100 percent behind her decisions. He's been fully supportive of her, as he said yesterday morning before events transpired and yesterday afternoon in a written statement. Q But wouldn't he want to convey those thoughts to her personally yesterday? MS. MYERS: One more time, I don't know if they've spoken this morning. Q No, yesterday. Q Clearly there's a perception that she was left hung out to dry all day yesterday. MS. MYERS: That's just not true. I think we said throughout the day that the President takes full responsibility, that he stands -- I don't know how much clearer we can be. The President stands foursquare behind the Attorney General on this. He accepts full responsibility for the events that transpired. He believes that Janet Reno, the Justice Department, and the FBI acted as best they could, given the circumstances and the facts that were evident at the time. I don't know what else he can say to show that he supports her 1,000 percent. Q One of the best indications of that is to pick up the phone and tell her. MS. MYERS: Again, I don't know whether they've spoken this morning. Q Why can't we find out? MS. MYERS: Well, we can. I can't do it standing here right now. Q You've got six people here. All they've got to do is pick up the phone. MS. MYERS: Helen, we'll get back to you. Q Dee Dee, when the President spoke with the Attorney General on Sunday, is it safe to assume that either she volunteered or he inquired about whether there was a possible downside to increasing pressure on the Davidians? MS. MYERS: I think that they discussed the situation. Again, I'm not going to get into the specific details of what exactly she told him, but I think that he was aware of the risks involved. Q Dee Dee, the President yesterday morning said it was entirely her decision. She then said that she told him what was happening and he said, okay. Does the President regard it that he gave the go-ahead or that she gave the go-ahead? MS. MYERS: I think what they both said yesterday was that she made a decision based on all the available facts. She informed him about that and he raised no objections. Again, I don't know how much clearer we can be about that. Q And he said, okay. The issue is over the responsibility. MS. MYERS: He said, okay. Q Does okay mean -- MS. MYERS: The President accepts ultimate responsibility. Q Dee Dee, the President's investigation that he's going to announce -- would that be conducted by someone outside the administration? MS. MYERS: No. Q It would be internal -- is it meant to preclude any congressional investigation? MS. MYERS: No, it's meant simply to follow up on the incidents that occurred yesterday. Q And you would, I assume, therefore, cooperate fully with any congressional hearings that would be held? MS. MYERS: To the best of our ability. Q Dee Dee, there are two reports out this morning. One that the Justice Department, or FBI, or whomever, apparently had a bug planted inside the complex. And the other is that the children may have been injected with some kind of poison that may have either left them unconscious or maybe even killed them before the fire. What do you know about those two -- MS. MYERS: Nothing more than I've seen in news accounts this morning. We may get more on it later, but at this point, I know -- I'm not sure anybody knows any more than what was reported by people who came out of the compound. Q Has the President received any report today in terms of fatalities and actually what was going on -- what they've been able to find out on in the compound now? MS. MYERS: He's been briefed. I don't think that they've gotten into the compound yet. They were still waiting for it to cool off. I don't think there's much beyond what's been reported in the news accounts. But he has been kept up-to-date on it. Q Dee Dee, the President stands behind Attorney General Reno, but does he feel that she perhaps got bad advice from the so-called experts? MS. MYERS: He believes that she made -- he stands behind the decision that she made. It was the unanimous decision of her advisors, of the FBI, of the agents on the ground, and he supports that. Q What about the validity of the decisions made on the ground? Does he back those -- MS. MYERS: He's not going to second-guess decisions made. Q Dee Dee, you just said, he stands behind the decision which she made. Normally, in a situation like this, the President says, I made the decision. But you're saying she made the decision? MS. MYERS: I'm saying that the President was briefed about the decision. He okayed it and he accepts full responsibility for it. Q But then why do you keep using the terminology, the decision that she made, rather than the decision that he made -- MS. MYERS: Because, as he said yesterday, she evaluated the facts based on evidence presented to her by Justice Department and FBI, which is part of the Justice Department, and made a decision and then briefed the President on that decision. That is how the chain of command works. She briefed him. He signed off on it. The operation went forward, and the President accepts full responsibility. Q In that chain of command analogy there, I want to go back to Sessions a moment. Do you know if this was a plan that came through him to Reno, or was it presented to her around him or with his involvement? What was his involvement? MS. MYERS: Again, you'd have to go to the Justice Department for the specific interaction between the Attorney General and the Director. Q Does the President stand behind Director Sessions? MS. MYERS: He supports -- again, I don't know how many different ways I can say this -- he supports the decisions made by the Justice Department and the FBI. He fully supports the Attorney General in this. I'm not stepping away from the Director of the FBI, I want to -- but Janet Reno is the one who briefed him, the one who made the decisions as the head of the Justice Department. As you know, the Director of the FBI reports to the Attorney General. The Attorney General made the decision. She informed the President about those decisions. He okayed it. He didn't raise any objections to it, and he accepts full responsibility. Q Do you have, based on what you know here at the White House, any concerns about William Sessions' performance during this -- MS. MYERS: Nothing to suggest that, no. Q Along those same lines, just in your initial review of the situation, how much do you think the problems might have come from not having a Justice Department that's fully staffed and having an FBI Director who is still quite uncertain about his status? MS. MYERS: I just don't think that had anything to do with it. I think the agents on the ground -- the operation went forward. I'm not going to speculate on that. Q Did the White House express any alarm that Janet Reno chose to speak to the live network media before she chose to speak to Clinton? MS. MYERS: No. She was carrying forward her responsibility to inform the public about the events of yesterday. I think she did a very admirable job. The President agrees with that. Q Before Sunday, how often was the President briefed on the situation in Waco? MS. MYERS: He was kept updated on a regular basis, on a daily basis. Q Who briefed the President? MS. MYERS: Well, I'm not going to get into exactly who, what conversations he had with whom, but he was kept up-to-date on the events in Waco. He has daily briefings on a number of issues. Q No, no, was this a regular briefing conducted by a White House staff person, or was it by a Justice Department person? MS. MYERS: He's briefed regularly by a White House staff on a number of issues. Again, I'm not going to get into exactly who briefs him on what subjects. Q Another subject? Q On another subject. Q Now we're going to do gays in the military. (Laughter.) MS. MYERS: I welcome it. Q How close are you to signing the biodiversity treaty? MS. MYERS: As you know, the President's giving a speech on Earth Day tomorrow. We'll have more to say about it then. Q Any details on where or when that speech is yet? MS. MYERS: It's at 11:30 a.m. and I don't know where yet. Q Dee Dee, is this a major policy address? How would you characterize the speech tomorrow? MS. MYERS: I would characterize it as a Earth Day speech. I wouldn't look for any major departures from his past positions on these things. But, again, I don't want to get too much into what he's going to talk about tomorrow. Q On or off campus? Q Is this at a location outside the White House? MS. MYERS: It will be somewhere in Washington. We don't know exactly where yet. Q Dee Dee, what foreign leaders has the President talked to since Friday on the situation in Bosnia? MS. MYERS: Only Prime Minister Major. And again, he'll try to reach President Mitterrand again this morning. Q David Owen said yesterday and Joe Biden said today -- both of them agree that the peace process is not going to work, that the Serbs are not going to sign on. Does the administration still believe that it can work and that they will sign on? MS. MYERS: Obviously, the ultimate goal is some sort of peaceful resolution to the conflict in Bosnia. As you know, the administration is considering a wide variety of options at this point. The situation there in and around Srebrenica and the rest of Eastern Bosnia is quite serious. And the President will meet with his Bosnian advisors today and continue to press forward on this. Q Is that a question they're going to try to be deciding whether or not the peace plan remains viable? MS. MYERS: Again, they'll be reviewing a number of options, including the peace plan. Q Does the group that he's meeting with today include Reg Bartholomew? MS. MYERS: I don't believe he's here. But it will be among the usual -- Secretary Christopher, Secretary Aspin, General Powell. Q Dee Dee, do you have anything on the apparent encounter by U.S. F-15s over Bosnia today -- some aircraft violating the no-fly zone? MS. MYERS: No, I don't. I'll get back to you on that. Q Will the President be meeting with every one of the leaders coming to town for the Holocaust Museum? MS. MYERS: He will. He'll be meeting, as you know, with Vaclav Havel today and with Lech Walesa tomorrow, and then with the rest of the group tomorrow afternoon. Q As a group, or one by one? MS. MYERS: I believe it's as a group. Now, Havel and Walesa asked for meetings early and these have been on the agenda for quite some time. But he will meet with all of the foreign heads of state that are here. Q Dee Dee, has the President decided whether he supports the gay and lesbian civil rights act? And has anything been worked out for him to address the march on Sunday? MS. MYERS: I think he'll probably have a letter or some kind of a statement to the march. We haven't worked out the exact details of that. Q Not a live phone hook-up? MS. MYERS: Probably not, given the logistics of getting to Boston. The speech, as you know, is at 4:00 p.m. The answer to the other part of your question is, no, he hasn't taken a position on it. Q You said that speech in Boston was at 4:00 p.m.? MS. MYERS: I believe so, yes. Q Do you know what it's on? MS. MYERS: We'll still working out -- Q General Vessey's coming back tonight from Vietnam. When will he be meeting with the President? MS. MYERS: No specific meeting is scheduled. We'll talk to him at some point and see. We look forward to his report, but exactly how he'll make that report is unclear. Q So he's not going to come immediately to the White House? MS. MYERS: No. Q The AIDS czar -- how close are you? MS. MYERS: Still working on it. Q Drug czar? Q Do you expect it before the march? MS. MYERS: I don't have a time line on it. Q Did the President ask Senator Mitchell to try the Lloyd Cutler ploy to break the filibuster? MS. MYERS: I don't believe so. Q Why not? MS. MYERS: He's just not going to. Q Are Senate Democrats here at this hour? MS. MYERS: No, that's tomorrow -- tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. Q Update on the stimulus, possible scaling down -- MS. MYERS: As you know, the Senate will vote on amendments today. We'll continue to talk. The President is committed to some kind of a jobs package; we'd like to see it passed. And we'll continue in conversations throughout the day and see where we end up. Q When this briefing is over can you give us word through the speaker or whatever whether the President's talked to Janet Reno? MS. MYERS: We'll be happy to. Q It's become a pressing question for the last several hours. MS. MYERS: No, just this minute that I've been here, and I haven't had a chance to follow up on it, Helen. Q Does he have an opinion on Hatfield? MS. MYERS: I mean, obviously, he prefers -- he offered a compromise package of $12.2 billion. He believes that that's the best alternative, believes that he's obviously willing to take a second look at the package. And I think the Senate will vote on that today, and we're hopeful that the President's bill, which will be the Mitchell amendment, will be the one that will be approved. Q Dee Dee, is there any White House official that will be at the march on Sunday? MS. MYERS: Somebody will be there representing the President. I don't know who yet. Q Well, has it been decided how he's going to address? Is it going to be a videotape or a phone call? MS. MYERS: I think it will probably be a letter, but there hasn't been a final decision on that yet. Q The official will read the letter, is that what it sounds like? MS. MYERS: Correct. Q Lloyd Bentsen came in here this morning. Do you know what was that about? Was that about this Waco thing? MS. MYERS: No, actually it wasn't. It may have come up, but it was about economic issues. Q On health care -- is the 17th of May still the target? MS. MYERS: That's still the target. Q And there's talk about a Joint Session of Congress speech at the end of May -- MS. MYERS: We haven't resolved exactly how the President will present the health care plan to the people. I wouldn't rule that out as an option, but no decisions have been made. END10:08 A.M. EDT ",18 "Re: Boom! Hubcap attack! In article , speedy@engr.latech.edu (Speedy Mercer) writes: |> I was attacked by a rabid hubcap once. I was going to work on a |> Yamaha |> 750 Twin (A.K.A. ""the vibrating tank"") when I heard a wierd noise off |> to my |> left. I caught a glimpse of something silver headed for my left foot |> and |> jerked it up about a nanosecond before my bike was hit HARD in the |> left |> side. When I went to put my foot back on the peg, I found that it |> was not |> there! I pulled into the nearest parking lot and discovered that I |> had been |> hit by a wire-wheel type hubcap from a large cage! This hubcap |> weighed |> about 4-5 pounds! The impact had bent the left peg flat against the |> frame |> and tweeked the shifter in the process. Had I not heard the |> approaching |> cap, I feel certian that I would be sans a portion of my left foot. |> |> Anyone else had this sort of experience? |> Not with a hub cap but one of those ""Lumber yard delivery trucks"" made life interesting when he hit a 'dip' in the road and several sheets of sheetrock and a dozen 5 gallon cans of spackle came off at 70 mph. It got real interesting for about 20 seconds or so. Had to use a wood mallet to get all the dried spackle off Me, the Helmet and the bike when I got home. Thanks to the bob tail Kenworth between me and the lumber truck I had a ""Path"" to drive through he made with his tires (and threw up the corresponding monsoon from those tires as he ran over what ever cans of spackle didn't burst in impact). A car in front of me in the right lane hit her brakes, did a 360 and nailed a bridge abutment half way through the second 360. The messiest time was in San Diego in 69' was on my way back to the apartment in ocean beach on my Sportster and had just picked up a shake, burger n fries from jack in the box and stuffed em in my foul weather jacket when the milk shake opened up on Nimitz blvd at 50 mph, nothing like the smell of vanilla milk shake cooking on the engine as it runs down your groin and legs and 15 people waiting in back of you to make the same left turn you are. -- ########################################################## There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES and TARGETS !!! #1/XS1100LH DoD #956 #2 Next raise Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063 Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist #include My opinions are my own!!! I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo in the same store. ",8 "Minnesota recalls McGowan (HELP!!!) Derian Hatcher's game-misconduct penalty was rescinded by the NHL, allowing the Minnesota defenseman to play in the North Stars' last two regular-season games. Hatcher was given the penalty during a fight at the end of a loss at St. Louis on Sunday, April 11. But the league didn't rescind the game-misconduct penalty Shane Churla received. The Stars recalled center Cal McGowan from their top minor league club in Kalamazoo, Mich., to replace Churla. The above is courtesy of The Washington Times on-line service. Now, here's where I need help. If anyone out there has a tape of Tuesday's Chicago-Minnesota game, please contact me. Terms will be favorable. Also, if anyone can tape tonight's Minnesota-Detroit game, please contact me. This could be quite important. Once again, I will make it worth your trouble. Thanks to all. -- rec.sport.hockey contact for Minnesota North Stars and maintainer of the r.s.h FAQ file Mitch McGowan a.k.a. | KALAMAZOO WINGS | MINNESOTA NORTH STARS | hamlet@u.washington.edu | ST. KILDA SAINTS | TORONTO BLUE JAYS | ",10 "Re: Israel's Expansion II ab4z@Virginia.EDU (""Andi Beyer"") writes: > First of all I never said the Holocaust. I said before the > Holocaust. I'm not ignorant of the Holocaust and know more > about Nazi Germany than most people (maybe including you). Uh Oh! The first sign of an argument without merit--the stating of one's ""qualifications"" in an area. If you know something about Nazi Germany, show it. If you don't, shut up. Simple as that. > I don't think the suffering of some Jews during WWII > justifies the crimes commited by the Israeli government. Any > attempt to call Civil liberterians like myself anti-semetic is > not appreciated. ALL Jews suffered during WWII, not just our beloved who perished or were tortured. We ALL suffered. Second, the name-calling was directed against YOU, not civil-libertarians in general. Your name-dropping of a fancy sounding political term is yet another attempt to ""cite qualifications"" in order to obfuscate your glaring unpreparedness for this argument. Go back to the minors, junior. ",17 "Re: Well blow me down. yuk,yuk,yuk In article 1564@news.columbia.edu, rdc8@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Robert D Castro) writes: >When/How do you decide that it is too windy to ride? When it's too windy to stand. When you're on the road in high winds, stay alert. Even more alert than your ""alert 'cause you're on a motorcycle and they're out to kill you"" kind of alert. Be aware of the terrain, and how it may funnel wind in sudden gusts (well, not gusts to somebody standing there, but it's gusty 'cause you ride through it). If you are riding in a steady crosswind, be aware of a hill that will block the wind, and adjust your lean angle. Be aware of passing trucks to your windward side, your lean angle will change dramatically both as you enter and as you leave their turbulance cone. Reducing your profile may help, ie, lean on the gas tank and kiss the triple clamp. Keep a nimble hand on the steering, be ready to countersteer into and out of sudden wind bursts. Keep a larger than usual buffer zone, both ahead and behind, and to the side, you can easily be blown half a lane over before you can react by countersteering. Keep a close eye on traffic in your mirror, if someone is coming up wanting to pass, get out of their way early. Stop often for short brakes, extensive riding in high winds is both mentally and physically fatiguing. --- Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker, Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM |and I showed him a picture of you. I said, DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |""Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"" (The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do... ",8 "win/NT file systems OK will some one out there tell me why / how DOS 5 can read (I havn't tried writing in case it breaks something) the Win/NT NTFS file system. I thought NTFS was supposed to be better than the FAT system keith ",2 "keyboard specifications To all hardware and firmware gurus: My current home project is to build a huge paddle keyboard for a physically handicapped relative of mine. My goal is for this keyboard to look exactly like an AT sytle keyboard to its host system. This will be a highly endowed keyboard with a Little PCL from Z World at its heart. The only thing I lack is detailed information on the hardware signaling that the 486 (with Windows 3.1 and DOS 5.0) will be expecting. My project is independant of Windows, my hope is that some of you fellow Window's users/programmers will recognize what I need and be willing to point me in the right direction. I have The Winn L. Rosch Hardware Bible (2nd edition). The HB gives most (if not all) of the information I will need concerning scan codes and even a wire diagram for the PS/2 style connector I will need, but it leaves a number of important questions unanswered. 1. Is it synchronous or asynchronous serial communication? I'm guessing synchronous since the host is providing a clock. In either event, how is the data framed? 2. Is it half-duplex or truly one way? I'm guessing half-duplex since the host can turn LEDs on and off. 3. Are there any chipsets available for communicating with the ""AT keyboard standard"" (other than by cannibalizing a real keyboard)? If anyone knows of a book or article (or any other written source of information) on the above, please advise me at gamet@erg.sri.com. Whatever I do it must be safe for I cannot afford to replace the 486 in the event of a booboo. Thank you for your time. Danke fuer Ihre Zeit. Thomas Gamet (gamet@erg.sri.com) Software Engineer SRI International ",2 "1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX For Sale FOR SALE 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX * All Wheel Drive * 195 HP, 16 Valve, Turbo * 5 Speed Transmission * Limited Slip Differential * AM/FM Stereo w/CD Player, Cassette, 6 Speakers * Fog Lights * Air Conditioning * Cruise Control * Electric Windows * Front & Rear Intermittent Wipers & Washers * Alloy Wheels * Undercoated & Rustproofed * 22,000 Miles * Maui Blue * Excellent Condition * Asking $ 11,899 (negotiable) Call Pete: 908 457-2838 (Work) 908 821-5393 (Home) or respond to: pvannuis@attmail.com ",6 "Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot. In article <1993Apr5.190141.17623@bsu-ucs>, 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes: |> I just wanted to let everyone know that I have lost what little respect |> I have |> for Jim LeFebvre after seeing today's Cubs game. |> A dishard Cub fan If you think that's bad, just wait until he tries Dunston in the leadoff spot again. Yes, I also wonder if they can win with this manager. I never believed managers had that much to do with winning until I saw how much they had to do with losing.... - Rick ",9 "Re: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it? In article <2820016@iftccu.ca.boeing.com>, hovnania@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Paul Hovnanian) wrote: > > Based on my experience with a '79 FJ40 ( the hard-top jeep-style model ) I > would definitely give a new model consideration if I were in the market. The > older models are VERY well built. Unless Toyota lost its mind, I would > assume, until proven otherwise, that the newer models have inherited some > if not all of the qualities of their ancestors. > > Two major differences in the running gear (that I'm aware of) need study. > My '79 has a solid front axle housing whereas the newer models have > independant front suspension. The solid axle is theoretically stronger and The new Cruisers DO NOT have independent suspension in the front. They still run a straight axle, but with coils. The 4Runner is the one with independent front. The Cruisers have incredible wheel travel with this system. > more reliable than the newer model, but only experience will tell. The > independant front suspension is, no doubt, a compromise made to satisfy > the typical user, who will never need a real utility vehicle. The second > difference is the type of transfer case used on the newer models. I'm > not sure, but I think Tioyota went to a full-time 4WD or all-wheel drive > system. The older Landcruisers have a ""lock-up"" type. Both have their > advantages and disadvantages. > The 91-up Cruiser does have full time 4WD, but the center diff locks in low range. My brother has a 91 and is an incredibly sturdy vehicle which has done all the 4+ trails in Moab without a tow. The 93 and later is even better with the bigger engine and locking diffs. Jim Chott 85 Toyota 4WD pickup rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com 72 LeMans Sport Convertible Tempe, Arizona ",7 "Re: Centris Cache & Bernoulli Box You will need Driver ver 3.5.2 to work with Quadra/Centris. You can download it from iomega BBS: 1-801-778-4400 -- Dominic Cheng (d2cheng@descartes.uwaterloo.ca) Computer Science, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada ",4 "Re: **** CURSOR SIZE PROBLEMS **** In article , mbell@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mike Bell) writes: > /* Apologies for those who have read this before but no-one has solved this */ > /* one yet so I'm posting again! Sorry :-) */ > > I'm having problems creating a cursor bigger than 64x64, I'm using Motif 1.1 > X11R4 running HP-UX 8.07 - all the functions return valid results but no > cursor appears when the bitmap is bigger than the aforementioned size. I tried > > using the following code: > > unsigned int w,h; > XQueryBestCursor(XtDisplay(programArea), XtWindow(programArea), 72, 71, &w, > &h); > > to return the nearest size to what I require however it returns 72 and 71 as > the width and height respectively. What am I doing wrong? and if not how can I > get round the problem!! Does the workstation you're using have hardware cursor support? Or does the server generate a software cursor. You can generally tell the difference just by using it. If the cursor blinks a lot when there's screen activity, it's probably a software cursor. If it has a hardware cursor, I think you're probably battling a bug in HP's X server. I'm not familiar with any hardware cursor chips that display cursors greater than 64x64. It's quite possible that the server is just echoing your preferred cursor size without actually checking it. I vaguely recall that very old MIT server revisions did just that. In reality you're probably stuck with a 64x64 maximum size cursor regardless of what the server returns. -joel ",5 "Re: Source of random bits on a Unix workstation In article <1qs6cg$7cq@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> mrr@scss3.cl.msu.edu (Mark Riordan) writes: >A few more sources are statistics on your filesystems (easily >and quickly obtained) and the output from the ""rusage"" system >call. > >You can also exec a finger to one or more favorite heavily-used >systems, though this can take several seconds. > >cf. the source code to RIPEM on ripem.msu.edu. > >Mark R. Other alternatives include output of vmstat, iostat, pstat and friends with various flags, or even better crash. e.g. on an RS/6000 (AIX 3.2) you can get lots of relatively unpredicatble data out of crash. (the output from the following script usually gives about 600k of goo on a moderately busy system.) #!/bin/sh crash < V2110A@VM.TEMPLE.EDU (Richard Hoenes) writes: +>Can people please stop the 'I think/know the BATF/FBI are completely +>responsible but they'll cover it up so that the investigation will +>show that Koresch is responsible' bs. In an investigation of this +>size with the feds, state, and civilians involved in the +>investigation it would be practially impossible to cover up. The place has burned to the ground. The FBI and company have the whole area cordoned off and have already arrested reporters for being at the site and taking pictures. All your going to get in terms of a story is what the FBI, ATF and the Texas Rangers decide to release. +>And with Republicans like Arlen Spector calling for investigations, +>this isn't going to be handled with kid gloves. When the Philadephia cops dropped their bomb on MOVE and managed to burn down an entire neighborhood many people said the same thing. Dead men and rubble tell no tales that the police dont want them to tell. You can judge the real political mood on this from the fact that Congressperson Pat Scroder is a 100% supporter of the FBI's actions. She was on television this week saying that the cost of the operation in Waco was a valid reason for the storming and gassing of the compound. ",18 "Re: Is it good that Jesus died? In article bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes: >John 12:24-26: ""Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat >falls onto the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it >produces much grain. > ""He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in >this world will keep it for eternal life. > ""If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My >servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor."" > >Why would I want an eternal life if I hate this one? Again, you missed Jesus's point. If you read the surrounding passages you would understand what Jesus means by ""life in the world."" But as is, you bumbled around, asserted your standard axiom that the Bible is bunk, and came up with the wrong idea. Also, you do not know exactly what Jesus means by eternal life. Brian K., do you expect to jump in the middle of the quantum mechanics book and understand Hermite polynomials having not read the surrounding material? Why do you such with the Bible? For an idea what Jesus means by the world, look up references to it in your concordance. For a good description, the whole Book of Ecclesiastes is game. For eternal life, check out John 17:3, John 3:15-16. You will find that eternal life is quite different than what you think. Eternal life starts NOW--an infinitely high quality of life living in fellowship with God. >In short: even if your deity *does* exist, that doesn't automatically >mean that I would worship it. I am content to live my own life, and >fend for myself, so when I die, I can be proud of the fact that no >matter where I end up, it will be because of *my* actions and *my* choices. > >If your god decides to toss me into a flaming pit for this, then so be >it. I would much rather just cease to exist. But if your god wants >my respect and my obedience, then it had better earn these; and if it >does, then they will be very strong and true. If my diety exists, you would not just cease to exist. Jesus talks of hell in Luke 16:19-31. >You've got to understand my point-of-view: I see Christians spouting >Bible verse all the time as if it were some sort of magic spell that >will level all opposition. Truth is, it's not. Robert has never >demonstrated that he actually understands what the verses imply; he >just rattles them off day by day. Some brazenly fly in the face of >common sense and reality, and I point these out where I can. The truth is, is that it is not some sort of magic spell. The truth is is that you do not understand it, and enjoy not understanding it. >Christanity is a very nice belief set around a very nice book. Wrong again. Christianity is supposed to be relationship. You do not even know what Christianity is and you are arguing against it. >And in my opinion, you're bumbling about blindly making up entities >where there aren't any, and depriving yourself of a true understanding >and enjoyment of your life. As long as you keep your beliefs to >yourself, I'll keep my beliefs to myself -- but as soon as you start >waving them around, expect me to toss in my opinions, too. Just as I make up such places as Jericho, Jerusalem, Babylon, Corinth, Ephesus, Susa, and such kings as Nebuchanezzar, David, Solomon, Sennacherib, Herod, Pontius Pilate . . . . But I guess then that you treat Abraham Lincoln as a myth like you do Odin and Zeus. ",19 "Re: stop all the cross-postings bsadeghi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Behzad Sadeghi) writes: >do not, and i repeat, do not, cross post the following subjects to >soc.culture.iranian: >Re: Jews Supports Serbs >Re: Arab Leaders and Bosnia >Re: HizbAllah in Bosnia >Re: The Stage is Being Set >that's all we need here; more bigotry and hate! believe me, >we have already reached our quota for the year. try again >next year. >behzad What on earth do the above topics have to do with ",17 "System file in /tmp What is the directory .X11-unix for in /tmp? When I start x, it is created by the system. This directory wasn't created by root, and it contains an empty file (X0) that is owned by me. -- | .-, ###|For a lot of .au music: ftp sounds.sdsu.edu | / / __ , _ ###|then cat file.au > /dev/audio | \_>/ >_/ (_/\_/<>_ |UB library catalog:telnet bison.acsu.buffalo.edu |_ 14261 _|(When in doubt ask: xarchie, xgopher, or xwais.) ",5 "Re: Sigma Designs Double up?? jap10@po.CWRU.Edu (Joseph A. Pellettiere) writes: > I am looking for any information about the Sigma Designs > double up board. All I can figure out is that it is a > hardware compression board that works with AutoDoubler, but > I am not sure about this. Also how much would one cost? I've had the board for over a year, and it does work with Diskdoubler, but not with Autodoubler, due to a licensing problem with Stac Technologies, the owners of the board's compression technology. (I'm writing this from memory; I've lost the reference. Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Using the board, I've had problems with file icons being lost, but it's hard to say whether it's the board's fault or something else; however, if I decompress the troubled file and recompress it without the board, the icon usually reappears. Because of the above mentioned licensing problem, the freeware expansion utility DD Expand will not decompress a board-compressed file unless you have the board installed. Since Stac has its own product now, it seems unlikely that the holes in Autodoubler/Diskdoubler related to the board will be fixed. Which is sad, and makes me very reluctant to buy Stac's product since they're being so stinky. (But hey, that's competition.) -- Stan Kerr Computing & Communications Services Office, U of Illinois/Urbana Phone: 217-333-5217 Email: stankerr@uiuc.edu ",4 "The doctrine of Original Sin Stephen A. Creps writes to All: [...] SAC> Also, we know that SAC> the Bible says that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven. Where exactly does it say that? SAC> _Everyone_ includes infants, unless there is other Scripture to the SAC> contrary, i.e. an exception. Since there is no exception listed in the SAC> Bible, we must assume (to be on the safe side) that the Bible means what SAC> it says, that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven. I think we do see an exception in the case of Cornelius and his household, mentioned in Acts. Of course, they were baptised, but only after ""God showed that He accepted them by giving them the Holy Spirit"". This means they were already acceptable to God before their baptism, and had they suddenly died they would have gone to heaven. In case that seems far-fetched - an ancestor of mine was a missionary who worked among the Hereros in Namibia. Some of the tribesmen were jealous of Christianity, and they poisoned the first convert before he could be baptised. Surely he still went to heaven? I'm inclined to agree with a comment recorded at the time: ""It is not the neglect of baptism, but its contempt, that condemns."" Mike -- INTERNET: Mike.Hahn@p57.f714.n7102.z5.fidonet.org via: THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa. (catpe.alt.za) +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST. ",15 "The religious persecution, cultural oppression and economical... In article <1993Apr21.202728.29375@news.uiowa.edu> mau@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Mau Napoleon) writes: >You may not be afraid of anything but you act as if you are. I always like your kind of odds. The Greek governments must be held to account for the sub-human conditions of the Turkish minority living in the Western Thrace under the brutal Greek domination. The religious persecution, cultural oppression and economical ex-communication applied to the Turkish population in that area are the dimensions of the human rights abuse widespread in Greece. ""Greece's Housing Policies Worry Western Thrace Turks"" ...Newly built houses belonging to members of the minority community in Dedeagac province, had, he said, been destroyed by Evros province public works department on Dec. 4. Sungar added that they had received harsh treatment by the security forces during the demolition. ""This is not the first demolition in Dedeagac province; more than 40 houses were destroyed there between 1979-1984 and members of that minority community were made homeless,"" he continued. ""Greece Government Rail-Roads Two Turkish Ethnic Deputies"" While World Human Rights Organizations Scream, Greeks Persistently Work on Removing the Parliamentary Immunity of Dr. Sadik Ahmet and Mr. Ahmet Faikoglu. In his 65-page confession, Salman Demirok, a former chief of PKK operations in Hakkari confessed that high-level relations between PKK, Greece and Greek Cypriot administration existed. According to Demirok, Greek Cypriot administration not only gives shelter to PKK guerillas but also supplies them with food and weapons at the temporary camps set up in its territory. Demirok disclosed that PKK has three safe houses in South Cyprus, used by terrorists such as Ferhat. In the camps, he added, terrorists were trained to use various weapons including RPG's and anti-aircraft guns which had been purchased directly from the Greek government. Greek Cypriot government has gone to the extent of issuing special identification cards to PKK members so that they can travel from one region to another without being confronted by legal obstacles. Demirok's account was confirmed by another PKK defector, Fatih Tan, who gave himself over to police in Hakkari after spending four years with PKK. Tan explained that the terrorists went through a training in camps in South Cyprus, sometimes for a period of 12 weeks or more. ""Torture in Greece: Hidden Reality"" Case 1: Kostas Andreadis and Dimitris Voglis. ...Andreadis' head was covered with a hood and he was tortured by falanga (beating on the soles of the feet), electric shocks, and was threatened with being thrown out of the window. An official medical report clearly documented this torture.... Case 2: Horst Bosniatzki, a West German Citizen. ...At midnight he was taken to the beach, chains were put to his feet and he was threatened to be thrown to the sea. He was dragged along the beach for about a 1.5 Km while being punched on the head and kidneys...Back on the police station, he was beaten on the finger tips with a thin stick until one of the fingertips split open.... Case 3: Torture of Dimitris Voglis. Case 4: Brothers Vangelis (16) and Christos Arabatzis (12), Vasilis Papadopoulos (13), and Kostas Kiriazis (13). Case 5: Torture of Eight Students at Thessaloniki Police Headquarters. SOURCE: The British Broadcasting Corporation, Summary of World Broadcasting -July 6, 1987: Part 4-A: The Middle East, ME/8612/A/1. ""Abu Nidal's Advisers"" Reportedly Training ""PKK & ASALA Militants"" in Cyprus Nicosia, Ankara, Tel Aviv. The Israeli secret service, Mossad, is reported to have acquired significant information in connection with the camps set up in the Troodos mountains in Cyprus for the training of militants of the PKK and ASALA {Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia}. According to sources close to Mossad, about 700 Kurdish, Greek Cypriot and Armenian militants are undergoing training in the Troodos mountains in southern Cyprus. The same sources stated that Abu Nidal's special advisers are giving military training to the PKK and ASALA militants in the camps. They added that the militants leave southern Cyprus for Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Greece and Iran after completing their training. Mossad has established that due to the clashes which were taking place among the terrorist groups based in Syria, the PKK and ASALA organisations moved to the Greek Cypriot part of Cyprus, where they would be more comfortable. They also transferred a number of their camps in northern Syria to the Troodos mountains. Mossad revealed that the Armenian National Movement, which is known as the MNA, has opened liaison offices in Nicosia, Athens and Tripoli in order to meet the needs of the camps. The offices are used to provide material support for the Armenian camps. Meanwhile, the leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, George Habash, is reported to have ordered his men not to participate in the operations carried out by the PKK & ASALA, which he described as ""extreme racist, extreme nationalist and fascist."" Reliable sources have said that Habash believed that the recent operations carried out by the PKK militants show that organisation to be a band of irregulars engaged in extreme nationalist operations. They added that he instructed his militants to sever their links with the PKK and avoid clashing with it. It has been established that George Habash expelled ASALA militants from his camp after ASALA's connections with drug trafficking were exposed. Source: Alan Cowell, 'U.S. & Greece in Dispute on Terror,' The New York Times, June 27, 1987, p. 4. Special to The New York Times ATHENS, June 26 - A dispute developed today between Athens and Washington over United States intelligence reports saying that Athens, for several months, conducted negotiations with the terrorist known as Abu Nidal... They said the contacts were verified in what were termed hard intelligence reports. Abu Nidal leads the Palestinian splinter group Al Fatah Revolutionary Council, implicated in the 1985 airport bombings at Rome and Vienna that contributed to the Reagan Administration's decision to bomb Tripoli, Libya, last year. In Washington, State Department officials said that when Administration officials learned about the contacts, the State Department drafted a strongly worded demarche. The officials also expressed unhappiness with Greece's dealings with ASALA, the Armenian Liberation Army, which has carried out terrorist acts against Turks.... Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Ryam out for 2-5 weeks!! Nolan Ryan has torn cartlidge inhis right knee. Is having surgery and is expected to miss 2-5 weeks. -- ",9 "legal definition of religion Edgar Pearlstein asks (Fri 7 May 1993) whether the Supreme Court, or any other government authority, has attempted a legal definition of religion. The Universal Military Training and Service Act of 1958 exempted from the draft those whose ""religious training and belief"" was opposed to participation in war in any form. It defined ""R T & B"" as ""an individual's belief in a relation to a Supreme Being involving duties superior to those arising from any human relation, but [not including] essentially political, sociological, or philosophical views or a merely personal moral code."" In the 1965 case of UNITED STATES V. SEEGER, the Supreme Court broadened the definition so as not to restrict it to explicit theists. Justice Tom Clark, delivering the Court's opinion, said: We have concluded that Congress, in using the expression ""Supreme Being"" rather than the designation ""God,"" .... the test of belief ""in a relation to a Superme Being"" is whether a given belief that is sincere and meaningful occupies a place in the life of its possessor parallel to that filled by the orthodox belief in God of one who clearly qualifies for the exemption. Where such beliefs have parallel positions in the lives of their respective holders we cannot say that one is ""in a relation to a Supreme Being"" and the other is not...."" My immediate reference is THE FIRST FREEDOM, by Nat Hentoff, (Delacorte 1980, Dell 1981). Yours, James Kiefer ",15 "Armenian scholars on the extermination of 2.5 million Muslim people. In article <735251412@amazon.cs.duke.edu> wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Eduard Wiener) writes: > Why don't you post this in English, Mike? > This appears to mean -- ""Milan, it seems that > some Greek has fucked you."" Is that what turns you on? The truth needs to be told over and over again. There are Armenians who of course witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914-1920 but their voices of truth are suppressed today in the hollow din of anti-Turkish/Muslim campaign by the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle of the fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government. Well, that is what I saw in the library. What's your problem with this? Source: K. S. Papazian, ""Patriotism Perverted,"" Baikar Press, Boston, 1934. pp. 17-18. ""It seems that terrorism against their own co-nationals has been a prominent part of the revolutionary activities of the Dashnag leaders of the Caucasus. Organized to fight the Turks, these chieftains have been more successful in their fight against their Armenian opponents in Turkey, and the Caucasus, very often defenseless and innocent."" p. 38. ""The fact remains, however, that the leaders of the Turkish Armenian section of the Dashnagtzoutune did not carry out their promise of loyalty to the Turkish cause when the Turks entered the war...and a call was sent for Armenian volunteers to fight the Turks on the Caucasian front."" p. 38. ""Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of 1914-15-16."" Source: ""Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922"" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages). (Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 184 (second paragraph) ""I had received further very definite information of horrors that had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain, and as I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their treatment of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis from Zivin that 'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should not be left in independent command of the Moslem population, as, their troops being without discipline and not under effective control, atrocities were constantly being committed, for which we should with justice eventually be held to be morally responsible'."" p. 177 (third paragraph) ""Armenian troops, who, having pillaged and destroyed all the Moslem villages in the plain...."" ""Caravans of refugees were in the meanwhile constantly arriving from the plain, from which the whole Moslem population was fleeing with as much of their personal property as they could transport, seeking to obtain security and protection..."" p. 178 (first paragraph) ""In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the existence, although they had been unable to find them."" p. 179 (first paragraph) ""Shortly afterwards the head of the miserable column appeared. There were in all about 200 persons, mostly old men and women and children, with a few ox-carts, ponies, and donkeys, carrying all their worldly possessions, except a few sheep that they were driving before them. Their leader interviewed Bekir Bey, and was told to keep farther on into the hills, where he would be able to cross the frontier into Turkey unmolested by his enemies."" p. 181 (first paragraph) ""the Armenians from the plain were attacking the Kurdish line with artillery, with probably a large force in support."" p. 175 (first paragraph) ""The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the announcement that Kars Province had been allotted by the Supreme Council of the Allies to the Armenians, and that announcement having been made, the British troops were then completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation commenced. Hence all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced the wholesale robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the pretext that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms. In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they were able to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which this was done will be referred to in due course."" The following news from Turan News Agency in Baku-Azerbaijan is brought to you as a service of: P.O. Box 14571 Berkeley, CA 94701 FAX: (804) 490-3832 Email: farid@mem.odu.edu * AZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD * 60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES * SITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR * ARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI * PRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN * AZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA * PICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW * ATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED * STATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN AZERBAIJAN'S GOVERNMENT APPEALS TO COMPATRIOTS ALL OVER THE WORLD BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, Azerbaijan's government appealed to Azeris all over the world in connection with escalation of the Armenian aggression against the republic. It is stressed in appeal that the experience of five-years of fighting for independence from imperial chains shows a grim process . The war against Azerbaijan under the pretence of protecting the human rights of the Armenians of Ukhari (Upper) Garabag, has meant the destruction of Azeri villages and towns, occupation of 10 percent of the territory, 60 thousand new refugees in addition to 500 thousand already in place. This is all the price of fighting for liberty from Russian imperial rule, is said in the document. Azerbaijan's government appeals to all compatriots to make every effort to inform the people of the world about the truth in Azerbaijan, and to assistance in solving the problems facing the young state. It is stressed in the appeal that there is urgent need for medicine, food, experienced doctors and financial help to settle refugees from Kelbajar, Fizuli and Lachin regions, and to render medical aid for the sick and the wounded men.--O-- 60 REFUGEES FROM KELBAJAR PERISHED IN THEIR ESCAPE LORRIES BAKU (APRIL 5) TURAN: Today, during the evacuation from Kelbajar region, 60 refugees on board two lorries were killed in the fire from the Armenian Tanks on the only road to leave Kelbajar. According to press -service of Azerbaijan president, no one survived the tragedy. --O-- SITUATION IN THE REGION OF KELBAJAR BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attempts to evacuate the rest of 15,000 citizens, encircled on alpine villages of the region of Kelbajar went on within the last twenty-four hours. Evacuation helicopters could not land near these villages because of shelling from the Armenian side and existence of fog. Measures are undertaken to air-drop food and medicine to the encircled people. Several hundred people succeed within the last twenty-four hours to get out of the region of Kelbajar via mountain range. Refugees are settled in the neighboring regions of Azerbaijan and in Ganja. Authorities face serious problem with rendering refugees medical aid and food. The number of refugees from Kelbajar is over 40,000 people. Azerbaijan is not capable of handling a disaster of this magnitude.--0-- ARMENIAN ARMY CONTINUES ATTACK ON FIZULI BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: The region of Fizuli of Azerbaijan, situated outside of the territory of Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag, has been subjected to heaviest attacks of Armenian army for the fourth day. About 30 armored technique and more than 500 soldiers of the enemy are taking part in the attack. Armenian units broke the defence line of the azeri forces and occupied the ruling height from where the town is shelled from ""Grad"" installations, this morning. There is heavy destructions in the town and more than 20 people are dead. Population of the town is hastily evacuated.--0-- PRESS-CONFERENCE OF THE CHIEF OF PRESS-SERVICE OF PRESIDENT OF AZERBAIJAN BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Fifty-five thousand refugees from the region of Kelbajar were taken out by 11 o'clock on April 5, informed the chief of the press-service of president of Azerbaijan, Arif Aliev, today. Journalists were also informed at the press-conference that International Red Cross is helping to accept and render refugees medical aid. There is an urgent need to supply the refugees with tents, food and medical aid. Arif Aliev informed that as a result of the ongoing tragedy brought on by the latest aggression of Armenia, the leadership of Azerbaijan intends to appeal to Azerbaijanis and all those who treasure human life all over the world for help. Concerning the reaction of the international community to aggression of Armenia, Aliev said the department of state of the USA has expressed its anxiety to leadership of Armenia. Participants of peace efforts in Daglig (Nagorno) Garabag under CSCE, Rafaelli, Mareska and Chetin strongly blamed the aggression of Armenia against Azerbaijan. Leader of press-service informed that tomorrow ambassador of Azerbaijan in Russia, Hikmet Haji-zade, will conduct a press-conference in Moscow. Detailed information on latest events in the region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan will be given at the press-conference.--0-- AZERBAIJANIS PICKET IN FRONT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF RUSSIA BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Azerbaijanis, living in Moscow, picketed in front of the building of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia. Picket was conducted as a token of protest against participation of Russian units in capture of the region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan by Armenians. About 100 people took part in the picket, organized by Azerbaijani society ""Dayag"".--0-- PICKET OF SADVALERS IN MOSCOW BAKU (5 APRIL) 30-40 members of ""Sadval"" society picketed before the building of permanent representation of Azerbaijan in Moscow. Picketers were demanding the return of Lezghins lands, as if annexed by Azerbaijan. Ambassador of Azerbaijan in Moscow, Hikmet Haji-zade classified this action as provocation aimed at creating a further inter-ethnic conflict in Azerbaijan. He marked in his talk with the Turan correspondent that he does not rule out a connection between the Armenian aggression in the region of Kelbajar and this anti- azerbaijani action of the ""Sadval"" society in Moscow. He also marked that 30-40 people do not mean the Lezghian nationality in the whole. Society of Lezghins, ""Sadval"", registered in Moscow in 1990, demands the creation of a Lezghistan state, which never existed before on the northern territories of Azerbaijan.--0-- ATTACK OF ARMENIAN UNITS STOPPED BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Attack of Armenian army on the town of Fizuli, which began in the last twenty-four hours, is stopped, informs the press-service of the Ministry of Defence of Azerbaijan. In the result of undertaken measures, 6 tanks and a number of the attackers were destroyed. Advance units of the Armenian army retreated several kilometers. Chairman of the parliament, Isa Gambar, visited the town of Fizuli and met with commanders of the units of the national army and local citizens, today.--0-- STATEMENT OF MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF AZERBAIJAN BAKU (5 APRIL) TURAN: Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Azerbaijan issued a statement in connection with aggression of Armenia in the region of Kelbajar of Azerbaijan. It is stated in the statement that regular units of the armed forces of Armenia captured the town of Kelbajar on April 3 . Attack of Armenian units, which began on March 27 deep in the territory of Azerbaijan still continues. Armenia has occupied at present 7500 sq.km of the territory of Azerbaijan. Spreading of Armenian aggression far away from Ukhari (Upper) Garabag proves that the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflicts has entered a specially dangerous phase. This is the result of non-recognition of Armenia as an aggressor by the international community, is marked in the document. It is stressed in the statement that the units of the 7th Russian army are participating in the Armenian attack. This casts doubt on the sincerity of Russian mediation efforts in finding a peaceful solution to the conflict. It is marked in conclusion that aggressive actions of Armenia have wrecked the negotiation process under aegis of CSCE. The document contains the appeal to the world community to stop Armenian aggression and to use political and economic sanctions against the aggressor.--0-- Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: SCSI on dos In article <1993apr19.072253.14522@dde.dk> ibh@dde.dk (Ib Hojme) writes: > I have a question concerning SCSI on DOS. > > I have a ST01 SCSI controller and two hard-disks conected > (id's 0 and 1). I'd like to connect a SCSI streamer, but I > don't have software to access it. Does such a beast exist > as shareware or PD ? > Also what if I want a third disk ? I know that DOs only can > ""see"" two two physical and four logical disks. Will it be > possible to use extra disks ? Contrary to what others might have thought, I actually did have a SCSI drive once. It was the Seagate 296N and the ST-02 controller. I found that the controller couldn't keep up with a 1:1 interleave, so the best I could do with the drive was a 2:1 interleave and a data transfer of about 450 k/sec. I have had that drive/controller coexist with MFM, RLL, and IDE drives because the ST-02 bios will kinda muscle itself in there with no help needed from the computer's bios. Dos will see many logical drives, much more than 4 (I've had up to 10). I've often wondered how many SCSI drives you could hang off a ST-01/02. ",3 "Re: Turning photographic images into thermal print and/or negatives Jennifer Lynn Urso writes: >> Also if anyone else is doing what I am planning I would be happy to hear >>from you with any advice you might provide as to the computer system you >>use and/or any peripherals or software. It seemed the Quadra 800 would be >>my best bet to modify photographic images. I am planning on buying a Quadra >>800 with 32Megs of RAM, a 510Meg Hard Drive, a 1200 dpi scanner, 17"" Sony >>monitor and a 88Meg cartridge drive and perhaps a CD ROM. I am new to >>computers and any advice would be great. > >well, i have lots of experience with scanning in images and altering >them. as for changing them back into negatives, is that really possible? >scanning and altering is no big deal. i don't know what types of >features you have in your version of photoshop. but the one i use >(which, incidentally is on a quadra) has gallery effects and all types >of other neato stuff. >i'm just wondering why you would want to put your images back into >negatives, because once you print the image out-that's your print. >do you know what exactly your aim is in all of this? like, are you >doing this just for fun, for a business, to gain more computer >knowledge, for a project you're working on.... >otherwise, i guess i don't know if i'd be helping or not by posting info >on scanning and stuff. >ok? cool. >seeya >jennifer urso: the oh-so bitter woman of utter blahness(but cheerful >undertones) It is for a business and the end product has to be a photograph. I take damaged black and whites, usually old, some very, and repair them by hand at present. I would like to do this by using a computer. I am just trying to find a vendor who can convert my computer stored images to negatives or thermal print. The customer will want his/her copy as much as possible like a brand new original photgraph. -- David ps. Thanks to all of you who have sent me information it was very helpful in my learning about computers combined with photography. If anyone else has any information I would be grateful. ",1 "Missing subject header In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes: |> Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball. |> |> For anyone who didn't see Sunday's game, |> |> With a right hander pitching he decides to bench Lankform, a left handed |> hitter and play jordan and gilkey, both right handers. That's because Lankford had a minor injury from a couple of games before that and was day-to-day... only available as a pinchrunner. |> |> Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts |> lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis |> Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter. What the Hell |> is he thinking. See above. |> |> Earlier in the game in an interview about acquiring Mark Whiten he commented |> how fortunate the Cardinals were to get Whiten and that Whiten would be a |> regular even though this meant that Gilkey would be hurt, But torre said |> he liked Gilkey coming off the bench. Gilkey hit over 300 last year, |> what does he have to do to start, The guy would be starting on most every |> team in the league. |> At the beginning of the interview Torre also said Lankford is the one outfield guy who's ""in there no matter what"". My guess is Jordan will eventually end up being odd man out due to low on base percentage. Whiten was a great acquisition... decent offense and great defense in rightfield. But don't worry, Gilkey will be starting as soon as Jordan or Whiten displays an extended period of low offensive output. ",9 "Re: MGBs and the real world derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes: >>People who bought MGB`s bought them because they were an open topped sportscar >>and embodied what people thought they should for an old fashioned traditional >>brit. sportscar - not because they were great at anything. >Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today. Small >fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the >performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars. I have been for a fairly hard run in an MX5, what they lack in power they surely make up for in handling. Great for back streets with heaps of corners. They are a fairly light car with a low center of gravity and a quite free revving DOHC engine, a fun car. Have you driven a TURBO converted MX5? Now they are starting to perform! I've often thought a Mazda rotary would go well in the XM5 too....anyone done it? Regards Scott. _______________________________________________________________________________ Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au] PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272). _--_|\ N Department of Psychology / \ W + E University of Western Australia. Perth [32S, 116E]--> *_.--._/ S Nedlands, 6009. PERTH, W.A. v Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",7 "BC200XLT Handheld Radio Scanner Hello, I have a BC200XLT handheld radio scanner which recieves police, fire, ambulance, aircraft, cordless and cellular phone, etc. The unit is in original condition and comes with the manual, the power supply and battery charger. Price is $200 plus s/h. Austin Harris aharris@athena.cs.uga.edu ",6 "Happy Birthday Israel! Israel - Happy 45th Birthday! ",17 "Re: Car Stereo Stolen? > I had the front panel of my car stereo stolen this weekend. > I need to buy the front panel of a Sony XR-U770 car stereo. > If by any chance anyone has had the body of a Sony XR-U770 > stolen and has an otherwise useless front panel I would > love to buy it from you. > If you know anyone who had a removeable-front-panel car stereo > stolen from them, could you please forward this message to them? > Thanks! > Kris I was my understanding that the purpose of those removeable-front-panels were to make the radio useless, and thus discourage theft (that is if the cover were removed by the owner and taken along whenever the car was left.) If those covers were sold for anything remarkably less than the radio originally costs, or even sold at all, then the above discouragement wouldn't be so great. I personally would be unhappy, if I bought a radio like that, thinking that removing the cover greatly depreciated the radio's value, and the covers were sold by the company (or other legitimate source) cheaply. -- --------8<-------If you cut here, you'd ruin your monitor------8<------- Kenneth D. Ray Expert: Someone who knows more and more CRC OCIS about less and less and finally Rice University knows everything about nothing. ",6 "Trademark violation claimed Forwarded from libernet@dartmouth.edu: Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 10:30:47 PDT From: ald@clipper.clipper.ingr.com (Al Date) Subject: ""Clipper Chip"" --NOT! To: libernet@Dartmouth.EDU Clipper TM chip is a registered trademark of Intergraph Corp. The so-called Clipper chip which was recently mentioned here and in other media with respect to encryption is being used in violation of that trademark. The Intergraph Clipper chip is a Unix microprocessor, originally developed by Fairchild Semiconductors, and has no relationship to the encryption chip whatsoever. I mention this here with the hope that someone reading this will intercede before the group alt.privacy.""clipper"" is established. --Al Date ",11 "Advice sought: Turning font outlines into renderable polygons I am seeking some alternate solutions on how to turn a Postscript Type 1 or TrueType font outline into polygons that can be subsequently scan converted by a 3D scanline renderer. I have been studying the problem of font conversion for a few years but have never had the need to implement such a system. Well, I now have the opportunity to write some font rendering software so I would like to have some of my questions answered before I jump into the deep end. The main problem I face is how to use the even/odd or non-winding rules to turn the outlines into a single outline polygon (my renderer can handle complex polygons so there is no need to reduce the polygons to simple polygons). For example, in the letter ""O"" there are two outlines: 1) The outside outline which is clockwise (TrueType font) 2) The inside outline which is counterclockwise. One common solution used by a number of rendering packages is to simply connect the inner outline to the outer outline at the point where the two outlines are closest. This is equivalent to descibing a ""polygon with holes"". The renderer will then make the appropriate hole since the interior polygon edges are in the opposite direction to the outside edges. I do not want to use this simplistic system since: 1) It will not handle all outline fonts properly (it is not a simple matter to connect the outer outline to the inner outline for some fancy fonts). 2) It does not properly handle the even/odd or non-winding rules. From my research over the years the proper solution is to use a trapezoid decomposition algorithm to scan convert the outlines into trapezoids (as is done by the Postscript and TrueType font rasterizers). These trapezoidal polygons can then be easily and properly rendered by the 3D scanline renderer. My question is: are there any better solutions to turning the outlines into polgyons other than the trapezoid decomposer? I am not fond of this solution since it creates excess number of polygons. Another question, for those in the know: what is the best algorithm to create bevelled and/or offset curves for font outlines? I have a dozen papers on these subjects but I can't tell which method is the best to implement. Thanks for any pointers. --> Rob Lansdale -- Robert Lansdale - (416) 978-6619 Dynamic Graphics Project Internet: lansd@dgp.toronto.edu Computer Systems Research Institute UUCP: ..!uunet!dgp.toronto.edu!lansd University of Toronto Bitnet: lansd@dgp.utoronto Toronto, Ontario M5S 1A4, CANADA ",1 "Humminbird Depth Sounder forsale Hi, I have a Humminbird HDR200 Depth Sounder for sale. It has been used for 1 season on my sailboat. All parts are included as well as the installation instructions. It is even packed in the original box it came in. There is no damage to the unit or the transducer. In fact, the transducer was mounted *inside* the hull in a piece of pipe glued to the hull. So it led a ""sheltered"" life. The transducer can be mounted either inside the hull as I did, or on the transom. It cannot be placed in a hole drilled into your hull. It is fully waterproof and fits into a 2"" hole in a bulkhead (that's where I had it installed) or into a standard dashboard on a powerboat. It reads depth to 199' and has a backlit LCD display. It has an adjustable shallow water alarm built in. I am changing out my instruments to another manufacturer that outputs the NMEA 0183 information. This little depth sounder works fine and is very stable. It is usually priced as low as 130$ in some catalogs, I paid 150$. The first 80$ takes it, or best offer. John R. Miller Catalina 22, #4909 ""Tinker Toy"" ",6 "Re: NHL Team Captains In article <1993Apr20.113953.18879@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> leunggm@odin.control.utoronto.ca (Gary Leung) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.151818.4319@samba.oit.unc.edu> Scott.Marks@launchpad.unc.edu (Scott Marks) writes: >>>And of course, Mike Ramsey was (at one time) the captain in Buffalo prior to >>>being traded to Pittsburgh. Currently, the Penguins have 3 former captains >>>and 1 real captain (Lemieux) playing for them. They rotate the A's during the >>>season (and even the C while Mario was out). Even Troy Loney has worn the C >>>for the Pens. >> > >I think that Mike Foligno was the captain of the Sabres when he >got traded to the Leafs. Also, wasn't Rick Vaive the captain of >the Leafs when he got traded to Chicago (with Steve Thomas for >Ed Olcyzk and someone). Speaking of the Leafs, I believe that >Darryl Sittler was their captain (he'd torn the ""C"" off his >jersey but I think he re-claimed the captaincy later on) when he >was traded to the Flyers. > >Oh yeah, of course, Gretzky was the captain of the Oilers before >he was traded wasn't he? Dale Hawerchuk and Troy Murray were both captains of the Jets when they were traded. (Murray this year in mid-season, Hawerchuk a few years ago in the off-season.) Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4 (please route through 348/700) Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores! The Jets win the Cup! The Jets win the Cup! Essensa for Vezina! Housley for Norris! Sel{nne for Calder! ",10 "Re: History question Others said: {early PA?} # I recall reading of a phonograph which used mechanical amplification. # Compressed air was squirted out of a valve which was controlled by the # pickup. The result was noisy and distinctly lo-fi, but much louder # than a conventional phonograph. It tended to wear the disks out # pretty quickly though. An now-deceased prof told us willing students about a project he had worked on during WWII. They needed a mega-power PA with very clear audio quality. The purpose was to bellow at refugees from aircraft. Their solution was a giant compressed-air source, and a horn with parallel shutters worked by a small audio system. I think he said it worked very well, thus the War Dept. cancelled the project ;_}. -- A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu & no one will talk to a host that's close............(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 ",12 "Re: NHL team in Milwaukee Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: NHL team in Milwaukee Summary: Expires: References: <1qhsfe$80v@access.digex.net> <1993Apr15.093354.14844@abo.fi> <1993Apr16.131843.24012@walter.cray.com> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS Keywords: In article <1993Apr16.131843.24012@walter.cray.com> cbetz@radioman.cray.com (Charles Betz {x66442 CF/ENG}) writes: > >Bradley Center in Milwaukee is home to the Milwaukee Admirals minor leauge >hockey team. The owner of the Admirals (sorry, I can't remember his name) >either owns or at least shelled out the majority of the funds to build the >Bradley Center. Lloyd Pettit married into Allen-Bradley Corp. (ab.com) family and owns the Admirals. He donated the Bradley Center and the new Pettit National Ice Center. >Supposedly he was approached by the NHL about an expansion franchise, but >turned it down because he thought the franchise fee of $50 million was too >high. This is not the way I have heard it. See, Lloyd (as he is affectionately referred to by Milwaukeeans and Bob Uecker) bought the Bradley Center *TO* get the NHL to come here. >Like I said, I don't know whether this story is true or just a rumor, but if >it's true, don't look for an NHL team in Milwaukee anytime soon. The Admirals >aren't going to be forced out of the building and you won't see an NHL club >and a minor league club in the same building, especially since the NBA's >Milwaukee Bucks play there as well. Yeah, the Bucks, the Milwaukee Wave (soccer), the Admirals, the Marquette Warriors, concerts and a bunch of other things... -- Jason Hanson | 915 W. Wisconsin Ave #1010 | (414) 288-2179 Marquette University | Milwaukee, WI 53233-2373 | Ham Radio: N9LEA/AE -- jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu ==+== n9lea@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na -- ",10 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. In article enzo@research.canon.oz.au (Enzo Liguori) writes: > hideous vision of the future. Observers were >startled this spring when a NASA launch vehicle arrived at the >pad with ""SCHWARZENEGGER"" painted in huge block letters on the This is ok in my opinion as long as the stuff *returns to earth*. >What do you think of this revolting and hideous attempt to vandalize >the night sky? It is not even April 1 anymore. If this turns out to be true, it's time to get seriously active in terrorism. This is unbelievable! Who do those people think they are, selling every bit that promises to make money? I guess we really deserve being wiped out by uv radiation, folks. ""Stupidity wins"". I guess that's true, and if only by pure numbers. Another depressed planetary citizen, hoover -- Uwe ""Hoover"" Schuerkamp hoover@mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de Clear Skies --- Fight light pollution! ",14 "Win3.1 font with MACRONS Greetings from green New Zealand... We are looking for a Windows 3.1 Font that will allow ""macrons"" (a hypen) over vowels -- in both UPPER and lower cases. This is so we can use Maori characters in Windows applications. Thanks in advance -Stuart Inglis (Email directly to tetaka@waikato.ac.nz would be the prefered method of contact) ",2 "Re: LCIII problems (sideways HD's) In article <1qmgjk$ao5@menudo.uh.edu> , sunnyt@coding.bchs.uh.edu writes: > Its not a good idea to have a horizontally formatted hard disk in a > vertical position. If the drive is formatted in a horizontal position, it can > not completely compensate for the gravitational pull in a vertical position. > I'm not saying that your hard disk will fail tomorrow or 6 months from now, but > why take that chance? If you want more detailed info on the problem, please > mail me at:===> sunnyt@dna.bchs.uh.edu <===. > Sunny, I asked this question a while ago while contemplating placing my 650 on it's side. I received a response from someone at Seagate (Sorry I trashed the message) stating that most newer drives (Seagates at the least) can very well compensate for gravity. This means that a horizontally formatted drive can be later placed vertically with no data integrity problems. The only way that newer drives cannot work is if you have varying forces (shaking, bouncing, etc) so don't place the drive on it's side on a rocking chair :). What constitutes a 'newer' drive I don't know, try calling your drive manufacturer. I have a Quantum LP240S internal, and since I got it a month ago, I am guessing it's 'newer'. -t ",4 "Experience buying from TC computers? I'm planning to buy a computer and I like TC's ads. Can you tell anything about the company and their computers? Also, if anyone has a company they would prefer, please let me know. Thanks. Carlisle Thacker Miami, FL ",3 "Re: How to act in front of traffic jerks In article nielsmm@imv.aau.dk (Niels Mikkel Michelsen) writes: >The other day, it was raining cats and dogs, therefor I was going only to >the speed limit, on nothing more, on my bike. This guy in his BMW was >driving 1-2 meters behind me for 7-800 meters and at the next red light I >calmly put the bike on its leg, walked back to this car, he rolled down the >window, and I told him he was a total idiot (and the reason why). > >Did I do the right thing? Well, I used to get mad, and either try to communicate my anger to jerks, or to, uhm, educate them in how to improve their manners in traffic. Now I just try to get them off my tail. In heavy traffic I slow down a bit, mostly so I have more buffer zone in front to balance the minimal buffer behind, but I also often find that the jerk behind will notice traffic moving faster in other lanes, switch into one of them, and pass me - which is fine, because then I can keep a better eye on the jerk from behind, while looking ahead, rather than from in front, while splitting my attention between ahead and the mirrors. In traffic so heavy that there is no way for the jerk to pass, I might pull over, as if to look for a street number or name, (still ignoring the jerk) just to get the jerk off my tail. If this all sounds, well, wimpy or un-Denizenly or pessimistic, or perhaps (for any psych types) passive-aggressive, consider that I prefer to get my adrenaline jollies from riding, rather than from yelling at jerks. A ride can improve my whole day, while yelling at a jerk is likely (for me) to ruin my ride or my day with my own anger. In the worst case, yelling at the jerk could ruin my life - since even a tiny jerk in a cage behind me is better armed (with the cage) than I am on a bike. On the other hand, you might try subtly arranging to be the last vehicle to legally cross one or more intersections, leaving the jerk waiting for cross traffic (and thus off your tail), or crossing illegally (hopefully in front of the waiting police). Like almost everything here, your choices and mileage will vary. -- Denis McKeon galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu ",8 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. Hmmm... A possibility for the software registration conondrum would be to have the distributor register the copy when the software was sold. The clerk sticks it in the store PC and asks for the buyers ID. Later, if pirated versions showed up they could be tracked to the original purchaser. In addition copies which were sent to distributors/stores would have a vendor reg # or serial # in order to track in store piracy. Possible additional program security schemes would be: 1. having monthly password changes which necessitate user call in and registration. (inconvenient) 2. taking dire legal action on anyone caught (expensive) 3. encryption, crc check, self modifying code (limited effectiveness) 4. have an independent watchdog program in the installation/setup config or memory manager, etc. which would check the main program's crc. (only as effective as above methods at best.) 5. have the above watchdog circulating as a virus which would trash cracked copies of the program and/or the offenders hard drive. (risky, and probably illegal, certainly immoral) my new ideas aren't terribly feasible to implement as presented, but I thought if I threw them out people could think of variations that might be effective. What is the problem with parallel port security keys? I haven't used anything that had hardware key copy protection schemes, so I don't know what the drawbacks are. I know the companies that make them claim they're uncrackable, but I've seen cracks of AutoDesk 3d-studio floating around (I don't have one so don't ask) and I had heard that it had parralel port keys. vamilliron@othello.ucd.edu -my apologies if I rambled, but vi inhibits my communication skills greatly. ",12 "Re: Thumbs up to ESPN With everyone bitching about the hockey coverage by ESPN its almost like the Detroit-Toronto game was not televised last nite. I was just thankful to see hockey on a night that it wasn't supposed to be carried. Thanks to ESPN, no matter why they televised the game Craig ",10 "Feature Connector on VGA cards Would someone please post or email the feature connector pin assignments? This is sometimes referred to as the aux video connector in some documentation. Thanks astrachan@austlcm.sps.mot.com Paul Astrachan Motorola Telecom astrachan@austlcm.sps.mot.com ",3 "Re: Run box w/o cover ?? biernat@rtsg.mot.com (Tim Biernat) writes: {> i am interested in getting the pulse of this group regarding {> extended operation of my G2K 486-33V with the cover removed {> from the enclosure. there are a # of reasons i am considering {> this, including quick access to jumpers during complex i/o card {> setups. {> {> my concern is that without a complete enclosure to direct the {> cooling flow of air from the fan, ""hot spots"" may develop on my {> motherboard or elsewhere. my G2K has intake air vents in the {> front of the enclosure right at MB level. These vents would be {> removed along with the top cover in this scenario, rendering {> airflow from the fan pretty useless. {> {> however, short periods in this mode don't seem to heat things up {> too much, but my conclusions are far from scientific... {> {> -- tim I ran a 386-33 out of a cardboard box for more than a year with no major effects (yeah, no case at all, MB sitting on a static bag) other than the noise from the Poersupply it ran pretty good. as for cooling problems I bought a 12-14 inch fan and turned it on full and set the output directly on the motherboard. I did finally get a case though and I am still running the parts with no ill effects. I also had no kids to spill things on the MB> I had no cat leaving hair on the MB etc. etc. on and on.... the two major concerns are keeping static away and keeping the MB cool enjoy -David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= China Cat BBS c-cat!david@sed.csc.com (301)604-5976 1200-14,400 8N1 ...uunet!mimsy!anagld!c-cat!david =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",3 "Re: Paris-Dakar BMW touring??? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mike_johnson@mentorg.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mentor Graphics | 8005 SW Boeckman Rd | Software Support Corporation | Wilsonville, OR 97070-7777 | Framework Products Division _____________________________________________________________________________ ",8 "Re: Wiretapping reality today In article (sci.crypt), strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > You should read the history. It was Hoover who stopped Nixon's COINTELPRO > dead in its tracks because he said it was unconstitutional. They tried to > get around him every way they could. > Unfortunately, Hoover thought himself above the constitution, whatever he considered the limits others should obey. He ruthlessly invaded the privacy of many private and public citizens. -mel ________________________________________________________________________ | Mel beckman | Internet: mbeckman@mbeckman.com | | Beckman Software Engineering | Compuserve: 75226,2257 | | Ventura, CA 93003 | Voice/fax: 805/647-1641 805/647-3125 | |______________________________|_______________________________________| ""You can observe a lot just by watching."" -Yogi Bera ",11 "Cold Gas tanks for Sounding Rockets >Does anyone know how to size cold gas roll control thruster tanks >for sounding rockets? Well, first you work out how much cold gas you need, then make the tanks big enough. Working out how much cold gas is another problem, depending on vehicle configuration, flight duration, thruster Isp (which couples into storage pressure, which may be a factor in selecting tank wall thickness etc.) Ralph Lorenz Unit for Space Sciences University of Kent, UK ",14 "CD player, 3.5"" 1.44mg floppy, 360K floppy, RC10 RC car...D&D stuff (lots)!!!! please read...immediate sale! Greetings netters, I have the following items for IMMEDIATE sale. I need the money and if you need the stuff, we can work out a deal. :) Sharp single disk cd player Originally paid oodles, but that was a couple of years ago. It works well, has all the standards...(remote sensor[remote not included]; 20 track pragrammable memory; etc.) I got a new one and need to sell this one. Please email me an offer!! (it's the standard black component style cd player) 3.5"" 1.44 meg floppy drive A real IBM floppy drive with cable and mounting case. I paid $40 a couple of months ago. The drive works (as last time in). I would like to get the $40 back for it, but OBO applies. 5.25"" 360K floppy drive I'm sure someone out there needs an extra 360K. It works great and is nice and quiet. Again, please email offer. RC10 remote control car 4 time world leader design. It was just overhauled. It runs great, even though the body if not all that pretty. Has new engine in it as well as racing pinion. The chassis is nicked up from hard running, but it's still a great car. Does not include electronics. Comes with monster truck conversion kit (wheel arms already installed)-virgin truck body and bumper etc. Car+kit=$100+20=$120 OBO...make an offer! D&D stuff...you name it, I probably have it. Please send email regarding what you want...or a request for sale list. I hate to part with any of it, but needs are needs, eh? Misc CD's Alice in Chains - Facelift $8 Skid Row (self titled) $8 both obo...really. Box of computer printer paper...paid $20 for it, make offer. I might have 4 1*9 meg **60** ns SIMMS forsale if I get a new motherboard... if you interested, the price is $40 a piece sold as a set. ------------ Thanks in advance, please respond as soon as conveniently possible. Dave kari@sage.cc.purdue.edu 317-495-5978 ",6 "Re: DOS 6.0 In article <4903@eastman.UUCP> lrxi00@icts01.Kodak.COM (James Nonnemacher) writes: >Is there enough experience out in netland with DOS 6.0 that anyone could make some comments on whether >or not it's a worthwhile upgrade? Any problems with hardware compatibility or any bugs been found? > >One thing I wonder about is the disk doubler included with DOS 6.0. Is there any possiblity that if >the disk double .exe file gets corrupted your disk would be unreadable? How would one recover from >such an event? The file that would be a problem is DBLSPACE.BIN, not .EXE. /\_/\ ARF!! (0 0) +==========================----oOO--(_)--OOo----============================+ \ Bill Burge burge@qdeck.com / ^--- ""and his dog Spot"" / \ Problem Resolution & Prevention \ BBS - (310) 314-3227 (N-8-1) / \ Quarterdeck Office Systems / FAX - (310) 314-3217 / \ \ QFAX- (310) 314-3214 / \ Tech Support - support@qdeck.com / (This is an automated ""request / \ Gen'l Info - info@qdeck.com \ FAX"" system, call it from the / \ CompuServe - GO QUARTERDECK / handset on your FAX) / +==================================+========================================+ ",3 "Re: Why do people become atheists? Apology In article maxwell c muir, muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu writes: >Instead, I'm still faced with the >implication that atheism is some kind of aberration and that only ""broken"" >people are atheist. Again, as the original poster of the article, I apologize if it implied that atheism = brokenness. Such was not my intent and I apologize for any hurt feelings in the process. -- Filipp Sapienza Department of Technology Services University of Michigan Hospitals - Surgery Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu ",15 "Re: CLINTON JOINS LIST OF GENOCIDAL SOCIALIST LEADERS In article , random@cbnewse.cb.att.com (David L. Pope) wrote: > > From article <1993Apr23.153005.8237@starbase.trincoll.edu>, by (): > > > > > I've yet to meet a group of Baptists who were stockpiling Cambell's soup > > and M-16's/AR-15's and banging/marrying thirteen yuear (sic) olds. > > So out of the numerous baptists that you hang around with you haven't > seen any of the above behavior? Which trait (stocking food for more > than a week, or owning a firearm) is the definition of a cult? What > proof ( aside from David's aquittal ) leads you to believe that any > ""banging/marrying"" of thirteen year olds was going on? Does your > wife know that you equate 'marriage' with 'banging'? (sic) Oh, you're really bright. As if nobody would have understood it was a typo. Several parents with children who either had at one time or currently were inside the compound made the aforementioned charges. One parent actually spoke about said charges (in reference to his 13-year old daughter) WITH Koresh on the phone. You missed my point entirely. > > > You're a sorry > > son of a bitch if you can't draw a distinction between these two things. > > Since this guy doesn't like the concept of freedom of religion, he's > going to insult you AND your mom! Since you're unable to formulate a cogent response, you make a lame joke. > > > People like you cheapen our constitution by using it to defend > > sociopaths who aren't deserved of it. Get a life and chill on the > > paranoia. > > Sociopath - person with asocial or antisocial beahavior. > Sociopaths - 200 persons, all who can't stand other people, sharing > the same ranch-house. Anti-social. Normally meaning a response against societal norms. Stealing is sociopathic behavior. It's not an oxymoron to have a GROUP of SOCIOPATHS. I guess you're NOT a psychologist. Oh well... > > > joe.kusmierczak@mail.trincoll.edu > ^^^---It all suddenly becomes clear. Maybe YOU should get an education, my man. > > Why does everyone discover the Net in the spring? Why won't some assholes use a sig so I can send them mail instead of wasting bandwidth? > > Random > joe.kusmierczak@mail.trincoll.edu ",16 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption From article , by strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight): > > Though I agree this is not the place to discuss guns, I note in passing that > a number of gun apologists seem to have ignored the words ""well regulated"" > in their distorted interpretations of the Second Amendment. ""Well Regulated"", at the time of its writing and in the context of the Second Amendment, means ""Properly trained and equipped."" It modern language it would read: A properly trained and equipped militia, being necessary to the security of a free state Robbie Po writes: >In article , ""William K. Willis"" > says: >> >> You know, I never really appreciated them before! > >Looks like Bob Errey's ring really sparkles in that locker room, and everyone >else wants one, too! :-) Correct me if I'm wrong though, (just through No, Fuhr's 5 rings out sparkle Errey's. And doesn't Bob have 2 rings? -- Mike Eisler, mre@Eng.Sun.Com ``Not only are they [Leafs] the best team, but their fans are even more intelligent and insightful than Pittsburgh's. Their players are mighty bright, too. I mean, he really *was* going to get his wallet back, right?'' Jan Brittenson 3/93, on Leaf/Pen woofers in rec.sport.hockey ",10 "Re: Observation re: helmets In article <1993Apr15.220511.11311@research.nj.nec.com> behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes: > Do I have to be the one to say it? > > DON'T BE SO STUPID AS TO LEAVE YOUR HELMET ON THE SEAT WHERE IT CAN > FALL DOWN AND GO BOOM! True enough. I put it on the ground if it's free of spooge, or directly on my head otherwise. > That kind of fall is what the helmet is designed to protect against. Not exactly. The helmet has a lot less energy if your head isn't in it, and there's no lump inside to compress the liner against the shell. Is a drop off the seat enough to crack the shell? I doubt it, but you can always send it to be inspected. I've bike like | Jody Levine DoD #275 kV got a you can if you -PF | Jody.P.Levine@hydro.on.ca ride it | Toronto, Ontario, Canada ",8 "Rolling Stones 45 rpm singles for sale I have the following 45 rpm singles for sale. Most are collectable 7-inch records with picture sleeves. Price does not include postage which is $1.21 for the first record, $1.69 for two, etc. Rolling Stones|19th Nervous Brakdown (London Picture Sleeve)|$10 Rolling Stones|Jumpin Jack Flash (London Picture Sleeve)|$10 Rolling Stones|Mothers Little Helper (London Picture Sleeve)|$10 Rolling Stones|Paint It, Black (London Picture Sleeve)|$10 If you are intereste, please contact: Michael McHugh mmchugh@andy.bgsu.edu ",6 "Need Help in Steroid Research I am doing a term paper on steroids, actually the scientist who helped crate the drug. I discovered that Joseph Fruton is one of the researchers who helped create anabolic steroids. The only information on this person I know is he was a biochemist that did research in the 1930's. I already did research at my local libraries, but I still need more information. My instructor is requiring resources from the computer networks. Please write back concerning my subject, any books, articles, etc., will be appreciated. ",13 "Two stooges Well, the Red Sox have apparenly resigned Herm Winningham to a AAA contract. Ted ""Larry"" Simmons signed him to a AAA contract then released him from Buffalo, allowing Lou ""Curly"" Gorman to circumvent the rule about not resigning free agents until May 1. Clearly, neither of these guys is bright enough to be Moe. Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com Make it right before you make it faster. ",9 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. In article <1rlrpv$5ta@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes... > >Is this a big enough problem, to create a new area of physics? >just a little speculative thinking folks. > >pat Well pat for once I agree with you and I like your first idea that you had. IT probably is the gamma ray signature of the warp transitions of interstellar spacecraft! :) Well it makes as much sense as some things. I was at the first Gamma Ray Burst conference here at UAH and had great fun watching the discomfiture of many of the Gamma Ray scientists. Much scruitiny was given to the data reductions. I remember one person in particular who passionately declared that the data was completely wrong as there were no explanation for the phenomena of the smooth sky distribution. (heck it even shoots down the warp transition theory :(. The next conference is soon and I will endeavour to keep in touch with this fun subject. Dennis ",14 "Re: Old Irish/Gaelic TrueType font - synopsis of replies ctwomey@vms.eurokom.ie (Colum Twomey) comments: > Finally, rhiannon@netcom.com (Rhia) mentioned that the ""Meath"" font > included in the Casady & Greene Fluent Laser Fonts 2 package > is very much like what I was describing. I faxed Casady & Greene for > info but got no reply. Casady & Greene seems to be notoriously slow about responding, as I've heard from others who have contacted them. They may not reply via fax, but via snail mail. Give them time, or contact them again. Rhia --- ""Let joy and innocence prevail."" -- from the movie ""Toys"" ",2 "Re: Sumatripton (spelling?) [reply to roxannen@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.u] >I recently heard of some testing of a new migraine drug called >sumatripton (I have no idea of the actual spelling) that supposedly >utilizes a chemical that trips neuro-transmitters. My mother has >regular migraines and nothing seems to help - does anyone know anything >about this new drug? Is it in a testing phaze or anywhere near >approval? Does it seem to be working? I just got back from the American Academy of Neurology annual meeting, where the consensus was that sumatriptan (Imitrex) has no advantages over DHE-45 nasal spray, which is much less expensive, has fewer side effects, is as effective, and works more quickly (5-10 minutes vs. 30). Besides, who wants to give themselves a shot (sumatriptan) when a nasal spray works? DHE nasal spray is not widely available yet -- it has to be mail ordered from one of a few pharmacies in the country -- but most neurologists now know about it and know how to order it. David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell ",13 "Cubs mailing list Is there anyone out there running a Chicago National League Ballclub list? If so, please send me information on it to... andrew@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu Thanks! |\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/| |O| _ | Chihuahua Charlie | OU is not responsible |O| |O| | | | Academic User Services | for anything anywhere, |O| |O| |||| | The University of Oklahoma | except for that one |O| |O| |_| | andrew@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu | incident where 200... |O| |O|____________________________________________________________________|O| ",9 "Re: Why not concentrate on child molesters? In article <15149@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: >In article <113328@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes: >>When are you going to admit that the data you presented show >>just this---that only about 3% of child molesters are gay, and thus are >>NOT overrepresented with respect to the general incidence of homosexuality? >When someone can show something besides a Redbook article. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this irrelevant? Either the data shows something, or it doesn't. Regardless of what other studies show. Admit it. What you SHOWED to us doesn't prove that gay men are more likely to be molesters. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University, Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in ones true self. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",18 "Re: Donating organs In article <1993Mar25.161109.13101@sbcs.sunysb.edu> mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway) writes: >Dr. Banks, > I don't know if you make a point of keeping up with liver transplant >research but you're certainly in the right place for these questions. Has >there been anything recent in ""Transplant Proceedings"" or somesuch, on >xenografts? How about liver section transplants from living donors? > I'm sure the Pittsburgh group has published the baboon work, but I don't know where. In Chicago they were doing lobe transplants from living donors, and I'm sure they've published. I don't read the transplant literature. I just see the liver transplant patients when they get into neurologic trouble (pretty frequent), so that and the newspapers and scuttlebutt is the way I keep up with what they are doing. Howard Doyle works with them, and can tell you more. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "WHAT car is this!? I was wondering if anyone out there could enlighten me on this car I saw the other day. It was a 2-door sports car, looked to be from the late 60s/ early 70s. It was called a Bricklin. The doors were really small. In addition, the front bumper was separate from the rest of the body. This is all I know. If anyone can tellme a model name, engine specs, years of production, where this car is made, history, or whatever info you have on this funky looking car, please e-mail. Thanks, - IL ---- brought to you by your neighborhood Lerxst ---- ",7 "Mysterious beeping [ Article crossposted from hp.windows ] [ Author was Andy DeFaria ] [ Posted on Mon, 19 Apr 1993 18:08:38 GMT ] For some reason the following code causes my X application to beep whenever I intercept a keystroke and change it's meaning. The intent of this code it to allow ""date"" fields the following special keys: [Tt]: Insert today's date [+=]: Bump day up by one [-_]: Bump day down by one I hardcoded some dates for this example. Perhaps I shouldn't be using an XmText field for this. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // // For some reason the following code beeps whenever any of the special keys // of [Tt+=-_] are hit. Why? The idea of this code is to interpret these // keys having the special meaning implied by the code. I would like to get // rid of the beeping but, as far as I can tell, I'm not doing the beep and // am at a lose as to understanding who and why the beeping is occuring. // ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// #include #include #include #include #include Widget toplevel; Widget mainWindow; Widget mainPane; Widget dateField; XtAppContext application; void markToday (Widget date) { char *todaysDate = ""04/19/93""; XtVaSetValues (date, XmNvalue, todaysDate, NULL); } // markToday void markTomorrow (Widget date) { char *tomorrowsDate = ""04/20/93""; XtVaSetValues (date, XmNvalue, tomorrowsDate, NULL); } // markTomorrow void markYesterday (Widget date) { char *yesterdaysDate = ""04/18/93""; XtVaSetValues (date, XmNvalue, yesterdaysDate, NULL); } // markYesterday void datekeys (Widget /* callingWidget */, Widget date, XmTextVerifyPtr callbackData) { // Capture the keys [Tt-_+=] can change their behaviour. If found // set ""doit"" to false so X won't interpret the keystroke. switch (callbackData->text->ptr [0]) { case 't': case 'T': markToday (date); callbackData->doit = FALSE; return; case '-': case '_': markYesterday (date); callbackData->doit = FALSE; return; case '+': case '=': markTomorrow (date); callbackData->doit = FALSE; return; default: return; } // switch } // datekeys void main (Cardinal argc, char *argv []) { // Initialize Xt toplevel = XtVaAppInitialize (&application, ""Application"", NULL, 0, &argc, argv, NULL, NULL); // Create the toolface mainWindow = XtVaCreateManagedWidget (""mainWindow"", xmMainWindowWidgetClass, toplevel, NULL); // Create a mainWindow mainPane = XtVaCreateManagedWidget (""mainPane"", xmRowColumnWidgetClass, mainWindow, NULL); // Create a small text area dateField = XtVaCreateManagedWidget (""dateField"", xmTextWidgetClass, mainPane, XmNtopAttachment, XmATTACH_FORM, XmNrightAttachment, XmATTACH_FORM, XmNcolumns, 8, NULL); // Set modifyVerifyCallback to the datekeys callback XtAddCallback (dateField, XmNmodifyVerifyCallback, (XtCallbackProc) datekeys, (XtPointer) dateField); // Realize the toplevel XtRealizeWidget (toplevel); // Go into the XtMainLoop XtAppMainLoop (application); } // main _______________________________________________________________________________ I swear by my life and the love of it that I will | Andrew DeFaria never live for the sake of another man nor ask | Hewlett Packard another man to live for mine. | California Language Labs John Galt | defaria@cup.hp.com _______________________________________________________________________________ -- _______________________________________________________________________________ I swear by my life and the love of it that I will | Andrew DeFaria never live for the sake of another man nor ask | Hewlett Packard another man to live for mine. | California Language Labs John Galt | defaria@cup.hp.com _______________________________________________________________________________ ",5 "Starting my letter writing campaign Okay, here is the result of my efforts. I'm just getting started with this type of activity, so please set your flame-thowers on low. Comments, corrections, suggestions, welcomed. **************************************************************************** Editor, I would like to ask you and your readers a few questions that are related to the ""right to keep and bear arms"", and to a greater degree, the many other ""rights"" that we take for granted on a daily basis. 1. You're sleeping at night, when you hear someone in your house. You call the police. How will you defend yourself, should the need arise, while you are waiting for the police to arive? 2. You are driving your family home when your car breaks down. A ""good samaritan"" stops to ""help"", when you find you and your family at gun-point or knife-point. How will you defend yourself? And your Family? 3. You are a woman walking alone to your car or home. A man appears suddenly with the intent to rape you. How will you defend yourself? Are you strong enough to fight off your attacker? Are you willing to let this man rape you in order to survive the attack? If the House and Senate have their way, we will soon not have the right to keep and bear arms, as provided by the Second Amendment to the Constitution. A gun may not be the answer to each and every dangerous situation, but are you going to let the politicians decide what sort of force or weapon you may use to defend yourself and your family? Many times a situation may be diffused by just brandishing your handgun. If certain members of the House and Senate have their way, .25, .32, and 9mm ammunition will be banned for sale to anyone other than the military and law enforcement departments. Very soon, you may not be able to purchase ammunition for use in your handgun. There is already a 15 day waiting period in California. Do you really feel that any law abiding citizen should be required to wait this amount of time for the purchase of a handgun when his life or family members have been threatened? Our local police do an excellent job, but they can not be there all the time, or in a moments notice. You should have the right to protect yourself while waiting for help to arrive. There is currently legislation circulating in Washington that would prohibit the sale of certain types of ammuntion, handguns, rifles, and shot-guns. One elected official even wants to repeal the Second Amendment! I want to ask the readers of this paper what they would do if their elected officials decided that they should only belong to a ""certain church"", or go to church on a ""partiular day""? What if you were told that you could only read certain books? Write about certain subjects? What if you no longer had the right to a jury of your peers? How about the right to assemble in a peaceful manner? These are all rights that are provided by our Constitution and the Amendments. If we give up one right, we may as well give them all up. If you do not fight for the right to keep and bear arms, what will you fight for? When your life is affected? Write your law makers now! Protect all of your rights by defending your Second Amendment rights. ",16 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In <15378@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: >The article also contains numbers on the number of sexual partners. >The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3. >Compared to the table I have already posted from Masters, Johnson, >and Kolodny showing male homosexual partners, it is apparent that >homosexual men are dramatically more promiscuous than the general >male population. It's a shame that we don't have a breakdown for >straight men vs. gay/bi men -- that would show even more dramatically >how much more promiscuous gay/bi men are. Possibly because gay/bi men are less likely to get married? What was the purpose of this post? If it was to show a mindless obsession with statistics, an incredibly flawed system of reasoning, and a repellent hatemonger agenda, then the purpose was accomplished with panache. (a) Get a clue. (b) Get a life. (c) Get out of my face. I'm not in yours. Drewcifer -- ----bi Andrew D. Simchik SCHNOPIA! \ ---- as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu TreeWater \\ / \/ ""Words Weren't Made For Cowards""--Happy Rhodes ",18 "Pontiac e-mail Car clubs I am interested to know if there is any Pontiac e-mail car clubs out there? Has anyone started one, or is anybody thinking about starting one. Thanks for any info you can give me maloney@badlands.NoDak.edu ",7 "Re: Israeli destruction of mosque(s) in Jerusalem In article eggertj@ll.mit.edu writes: >In article eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: >It is important to note that there remains at least one mosque in the >Jewish quarter of the Old City, at least according to my map. You >might be able to find it just north of the Hurva synagogue. Is this >mosque really still there? Yes, it is. I have taken photos of it's minaret. >Was this mosque built by ""squatters"" too? Dunno. >One should compare this treatment with the one given synagogues in the >Jewish quarter in 1948, when it fell under Arab dominion. 22 of the >27 synagogues were burned down by mobs, and the other 5 were razed by >the Jordanian army. I think that in comparison the Israelis have done >an excellent, but certainly not perfect, job at maintaining Arab >mosques. This doesn't sound like ""eye for an eye"" anymore. Changed your tune? -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "Cassettes for Sale!!! (Update) Hi there again... I still have a few tapes left... As before they are $2.50 each (postage paid). Multiple orders appreciated, but not necessary... Package deals welcome... Thanks... Chris Bray Lewis, Huey|Sports Hooters|Nervous Night Poison|Look What the Cat Dragged In Hall & Oates|Big Bam Boom Ratt|Out of the Cellar Quiet Riot|Condition Critical Seger, Bob|Like a Rock Outfield|Play Deep Plant, Robert|Shaken n' Stirred Journey|Raised on Radio Duran Duran|Duran Duran Duran Duran|Arena Duran Duran|Rio ",6 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes: #In article <1qjahh$mrs@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #>Science (""the real world"") has its basis in values, not the other way round, #>as you would wish it. If there is no such thing as objective value, then #>science can not objectively be said to be more useful than a kick in the head. #>Simple theories with accurate predictions could not objectively be said #>to be more useful than a set of tarot cards. You like those conclusions? #>I don't. # #I think that you are changing the meaning of ""values"" here. Perhaps #it is time to backtrack and take a look at the word. # #value n. 1. A fair equivalent or return for something, such as goods #or service. 2. Monetary or material worth. 3. Worth as measured in #usefulness or importance; merit. 4. A principle, standard, or quality #considered inherently worthwhile or desirable. 5. Precise meaning, as #of a word. 6. An assigned or calculated numerical quantity. 7. Mus. #The relative duratation of a tone or rest. 8. The relative darkness or #lightness of a color. 9. The distinctive quality of a speech or speech #sound. # #In context of a moral system, definition four seems to fit best. In terms #of scientific usage, definitions six or eight might apply. Note that #these definitions do not mean the same thing. No, I'm using definition (3), or perhaps (4) in both cases. If there is no objective worth, usefulness, or importance then science has no objective worth, usefulness, or importance. If nothing is inherently worthwhile or desirable, then simple theories with accurate predictions are not inherently worthwhile or desirable. Do you see any flaws in this? If on the other hand, some things *have* objective worth, usefulness, or importance, it would be interesting to know what they are. #If you can provide an objective foundation for ""morality"" then that will #be a good beginning. I'm not willing to attempt this until someone provides an objective basis for the notion that science is useful, worthy, or important in dealing with observed facts. Alternatively, you could try to demonstrate to me that science is not necessarily useful, worthy or important in any situation. In other words, I need to know how you use the term ""objective"". #eric -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "atrial natriuretic factor ANP is secreted by the atria in response to increases in fluid volume and acts to facilitate sodium and water excretion from the kidneys. Can someone tell me the molecular mechanism by which this is done? Please email your response Thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Po'g Mo Thon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "5.25"" MO sectors/track? On an ISO/ANSI-standard 5.25"" magneto-optical disc, how many sectors are there per track (or disc revolution), and how many tracks per disc? Thanks, Jim Frazier 73447.3113@compuserve.com ",4 "Re: Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) and HP DeskJet 500... thomas.d.fellrath.1@nd.edu@nd.edu wrote: : Size is another factor. The BJ-200 is much smaller, but the HP is built : like a tank. I bet the BJ-200 would get damaged first. You bet your bippy it's built like a tank.. and not just mechanically either! This past weekend we had a nasty thunderstorm and the impossible (*&^%) happened - I got a direct lightning strike on my house - and to the second floor outlet box into which my faithful DeskJet 500C was connected. There was a .303-bullet-sized hole in the aluminum siding with some solidified aluminum slag dripping from it. You could actually see the electrical box through the hole! The outlet itself was fried and I'm still amazed the whole damn house didn't burn down. I lost 2 electric garage door openers, 2 vcr's, 2 telephones (all of which were on the opposite side of the house), a ZyXEL U-1496E high speed modem, a VGA monitor, a 1024x768 color monitor, the RS232 and parallel ports on my X terminal and a WD LAN card in my PC. Not a good night! But, the DeskJet ran as soon as I found a functioning serial and parallel port to connect to it. Ted (slightly singed) Rypma HP Panacom Division Waterloo, Ontario ",2 "POV animating In an attempt to do animation with POV I have created two little programs. One is a C program that will perform a ""morph"" between any two points given the amount of frames for the morph. And then it will write the points, and the function (translate, rotate, etc.) out to a file. Then I have a Perl script that will read the list of functions and insert them into a .pov file at a given line. I had hoped this would let me do simple animation. However, I have discovered that simply performing incremental rotations on an object will not spin a stationary object but will actually rotate the object about the axis. Now I know an easy way around this would be to first translate the object to the origin perform the rotation and then move it back but I know there must be another way around this. I had thought perhaps it was because I had created objects at the origin and then translated them to a new point and then done the rotation, which could cause this behavior. However this occurs on objects that are not translated at all. Any help is appreciated. ttknock@bbs.santafe.edu ",1 "re: antidepressants Without restating the thread going here..... Zoloft is a stimulating antidepressant. It is unfortunate that antidepressant therapy is trial and error, but if it is any help, there are a lot of people using the side effects of the many medications to help manage other conditions. Hang in there, maybe someday a ""brain chemistry set"" will be available and all the serotonin questions will have answers. Please, no flames........I have enough to deal with :) ",13 "Re: PLEASE! SHOW UP IN WASHINGTON DC FOR BOSNIA (MAY 15th) Subject: Re: PLEASE! SHOW UP IN WASHINGTON DC FOR BOSNIA (MAY 15th) From: Nick Jovanovic, jovanovic-nick@yale.edu Date: 12 May 1993 17:19:43 -0400 In article <1srplfINNkth@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> Nick Jovanovic, jovanovic-nick@yale.edu writes: >In article <1sredr$72b@venus.haverford.edu> Michael Sells writes: > >> ... I find it interesting that Mr. Major finds the genocide of two >>million Muslims in Bosnia acceptable ... > > >Now you are actually claiming that 2,000,000 Muslims have been killed >in B-H??? > >Please substantiate this utterly ridiculous claim. No, I'm not claiming 2,000,000 have been killed. We are in the middle of the genocide process that Mr. Major has given yet another ""green light"" to. Mladic seems to have most of what he wants, but Boban is just getting his appetite whetted. Because Mladic refuses to allow international observers to inspect mass-grave sites and killing centers in places like Foca, Brcko, and Visegrad, it will be years before we have an accurate account of the number killed. In practical terms, it would be impossible to kill all 2,000,000. There just isn't the kind of machinery of crematoria and gas chambers and transportation lines that the Nazis took 8 YEARS to develop. And remember, the Nazis killed minorities in the countries they occupied. To actually kill 42% of the population requires extreme genocidal organization. But I do claim that the goal of the genocide is the systematic annihilation of Bosnian Muslim culture, by killing as many as is feasible, by rape, by torture, by the demolition of mosques, libraries, and culture artificts, the burning and renaming of villages, the shelling of civilians. So that there won't be any of the 2,000,000 or so Muslims whose lives have not been shattered by the genocide, though they still may be alive. And Mr. Major not only finds this acceptable, he helps it along by making sure that the victims don't have arms to defend themselves. > >-Nick > Mike. -- Michael Sells, Department of Religion, Haverford College Haverford, Pa 19041-1392 ",17 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article , emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes: |> |> Lets see what the dictionary has to say: |> |> objective adj. 1. As having to do with a material object as distinguished |> from a mental concept. 2. Having actual existance. 3.a. Uninfluenced |> by emotion or personal prejudice. b. Based on observable phenomenon. The online webster gets in some good licks, too: 1b1: existing only in relation to a knowing subject or willing agent 1b3: belonging to the sensible world and being intersubjectively observable or verifiable esp. by scientific methods of a symptom of disease 1b4: perceptible to persons other than an affected individual For reason I can't quite pin down, I particularly liked 1b4. jon. ",0 "Re: TEst Instruments for sale The following is no longer for sale, it has been sold. -Textronics Type 611 Storage Display (screen dim. 6.5""x8.5) -Textronics TM503 base with three PG502 250MHz pulse generators. -Textronics 6289A Adj. DC power supply 0-40volts 0-1.5 amps -Keithley Instruments Picoammeter -(3) Analogic 3 1/2 Digit panal mount voltmeters ************************************************************** Still for sale, -Hewlett Packard 180A Oscilloscope with 180AA four channel 50 MHz vertical Amplifier and 1822A time base and delay generator. Best offer over $300 -(1) Analogic 4 1/2 Digit panal mount voltmeter, powered by 5 VDC, Model AN2574 1X3P, Same Dimensions as above, ----$55 +shipping---- Reasonable offers will be accepted. Please respond by e-mail or phone. E-mail halle@rpi.edu phone (518)276-7382 ",6 "I hate to make a decision ! Hi. Well, I really hate to make a decision, but recently, I have to choose whether stacker 3.0 or dos 6.0 with double space for my poor HD. I am using windwos 3.1 and I hope what I choose will live with windows. Any help will be appreciated. -- ===================== ( Forever 23, Michael Jordan.) ===================== Tony G. Wu gtonwu@uz.nthu.edu.tw CAE/Rheology Lab. NTHU. tony@che.nthu.edu.tw ",2 "And not only had many Moslems been massacred by the Armenians, but... In article <1993Mar19.215728.24473@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >Armenians did not genocide Turks. See, you are a pathological liar. Source: ""Adventures in the Near East,"" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages). (Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 178 (first paragraph) ""In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the existence, although they had been unable to find them."" (to be continued...) Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Cost/Benefit Analysis (was FBI Director's Statement...) In article <1993Apr20.212028.17463@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>, costley@solo.eng.hou.compaq.com (Brett Costley) said: >> *sigh* I just DON'T understand why they couldn't have waited Koresh&Co >> out. [jlpicard@austin.ibm.com] > > Uh, maybe because it was costing hundreds of thousands of dollars a > day to just sit and wait. Yeah. We don't want to spend too much money preserving lives, after all. Escpecially when they're all just a bunch of crazy fanatic cultists anyway, instead of normal people. [The above is supposed to be dripping with sarcasm, but I'm too burned out right now (get it? ""burned out"" ha ha!) to tell if it's working. Look, folks, what David Koresh and his followers were was _broken_. It takes a certain amount of flexibility and insanity to survive in this world and they didn't have enough of it and that wasn't their fault. So please stop dancing on their graves, okay?] -- William December Starr ",16 "Re: SIGGRAPH online experimental publication available Rich Brandwein writes: +In article <1993May7.211312.10403@bert.eecs.uic.edu>, rsc@siggraph.org +(Steve Cunningham) writes: +|> Computer Graphics experimental special online issue +|> May 1993 +|> +|> The May 1993 experimental special issue of Computer Graphics is online +|> as a set of files on the siggraph.org system in the directory +|> ~ftp/publications/May_93_online +|> This is made available to the computer graphics community by ACM +|> SIGGRAPH. The general theme of this issue is electronic documents, and +|> the Table of Contents in the AboutThisIssue files will tell you more +|> about this publication and its contents. + + I ftp'd here, but found nothing. Has this been removed? Nope, it's still there: ftp siggraph.org Connected to siggraph.org. 220 siggraph.org FTP server (Version 6.12 Tue Apr 13 09:53:56 CDT 1993) ready. Name (siggraph.org:rsc): anonymous 331 Guest login ok, send e-mail address as password. Password: 230-------------------------------------------------------------- 230- Welcome to Siggraph.Org, a machine maintained for ACM 230- SIGGRAPH by volunteers as a service to the active 230- computer graphics community. 230- ... ftp> cd publications/May_93_online 250 CWD command successful. ftp> ls 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. AboutThisIssue Kappe.Maurer Skip.Tappan.Russell Gonzalez Rosenblum Bossomaier.Green Announcements Calendar Contacts index READ_ME 226 Transfer complete. 141 bytes received in 0.04 seconds (3.4 Kbytes/s) ftp> ",1 "* Sabres are playing well... But I have to agree.. Boston is a good team.. But streaky... They put together a great streak to capture first place in the Adams, but for what? They have lost the home ice advantage for at least the first round, and might not make it out of it. I would love to see the Sabres win the first round, even though I bet on the Bruins (a 12-pack). Oh well, perhaps I should start betting against the Sabres more often! ;-) -- ciao, Jason Bittle (bittle@canisius.edu) (a.k.a. Pillsbury Dough Boy ) Quote: ""I compute... therefore, I. B. M."" ",10 "Cryptography FAQ 04/10 - Mathematical Cryptology Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part04 Last-modified: 1993/4/15 FAQ for sci.crypt, part 4: Mathematical Cryptology This is the fourth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are mostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest. We don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask. Notes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part. The sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu as /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography FAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers every 21 days. Contents: * In mathematical terms, what is a private-key cryptosystem? * What is an attack? * What's the advantage of formulating all this mathematically? * Why is the one-time pad secure? * What's a ciphertext-only attack? * What's a known-plaintext attack? * What's a chosen-plaintext attack? * In mathematical terms, what can you say about brute-force attacks? * What's a key-guessing attack? What's entropy? * In mathematical terms, what is a private-key cryptosystem? A private-key cryptosystem consists of an encryption system E and a decryption system D. The encryption system E is a collection of functions E_K, indexed by ``keys'' K, mapping some set of ``plaintexts'' P to some set of ``ciphertexts'' C. Similarly the decryption system D is a collection of functions D_K such that D_K(E_K(P)) = P for every plaintext P. That is, succesful decryption of ciphertext into plaintext is accomplished using the same key (index) as was used for the corresponding encryption of plaintext into ciphertext. Such systems, wherein the same key value is used to encrypt and decrypt, are also known as ``symmetric'' cryptoystems. * What is an attack? In intuitive terms a (passive) attack on a cryptosystem is any method of starting with some information about plaintexts and their corresponding ciphertexts under some (unknown) key, and figuring out more information about the plaintexts. It's possible to state mathematically what this means. Here we go. Fix functions F, G, and H of n variables. Fix an encryption system E, and fix a distribution of plaintexts and keys. An attack on E using G assuming F giving H with probability p is an algorithm A with a pair f, g of inputs and one output h, such that there is probability p of computing h = H(P_1,...,P_n), if we have f = F(P_1,...,P_n) and g = G(E_K(P_1),...,E_K(P_n)). Note that this probability depends on the distribution of the vector (K,P_1,...,P_n). The attack is trivial (or ``pointless'') if there is probability at least p of computing h = H(P_1,...,P_n) if f = F(P_1,...,P_n) and g = G(C_1,...,C_n). Here C_1,...,C_n range uniformly over the possible ciphertexts, and have no particular relation to P_1,...,P_n. In other words, an attack is trivial if it doesn't actually use the encryptions E_K(P_1),...,E_K(P_n). An attack is called ``one-ciphertext'' if n = 1, ``two-ciphertext'' if n = 2, and so on. * What's the advantage of formulating all this mathematically? In basic cryptology you can never prove that a cryptosystem is secure. Read part 3: we keep saying ``a strong cryptosystem must have this property, but having this property is no guarantee that a cryptosystem is strong!'' In contrast, the purpose of mathematical cryptology is to precisely formulate and, if possible, prove the statement that a cryptosystem is strong. We say, for example, that a cryptosystem is secure against all (passive) attacks if any nontrivial attack against the system (as defined above) is too slow to be practical. If we can prove this statement then we have confidence that our cryptosystem will resist any (passive) cryptanalytic technique. If we can reduce this statement to some well-known unsolved problem then we still have confidence that the cryptosystem isn't easy to break. Other parts of cryptology are also amenable to mathematical definition. Again the point is to explicitly identify what assumptions we're making and prove that they produce the desired results. We can figure out what it means for a particular cryptosystem to be used properly: it just means that the assumptions are valid. The same methodology is useful for cryptanalysis too. The cryptanalyst can take advantage of incorrect assumptions. Often he can try to construct a proof of security for a system, see where the proof fails, and use these failures as the starting points for his analysis. * Why is the one-time pad secure? By definition, the one-time pad is a cryptosystem where the plaintexts, ciphertexts, and keys are all strings (say byte strings) of some length m, and E_K(P) is just the sum (let's say the exclusive or) of K and P. It is easy to prove mathematically that there are _no_ nontrivial single-ciphertext attacks on the one-time pad, assuming a uniform distribution of keys. Note that we don't have to assume a uniform distribution of plaintexts. (Here's the proof: Let A be an attack, i.e., an algorithm taking two inputs f, g and producing one output h, with some probability p that h = H(P) whenever f = F(P) and g = G(E_K(P)) (i.e., g = G(K + P)). Then, because the distribution of K is uniform and independent of P, the distribution of K + P must also be uniform and independent of P. But also the distribution of C is uniform and independent of P. Hence there is probability exactly p that h = H(P) whenever f = F(P) and g = G(C), over all P and C. Thus a fortiori A is trivial.) On the other hand the one-time pad is _not_ secure if a key K is used for more than one plaintext: i.e., there are nontrivial multiple-ciphertext attacks. So to be properly used a key K must be thrown away after one encryption. The key is also called a ``pad''; this explains the name ``one-time pad.'' * What's a ciphertext-only attack? In the notation above, a ciphertext-only attack is one where F is constant. Given only some information G(E_K(P_1),...,E_K(P_n)) about n ciphertexts, the attack has to have some chance of producing some information H(P_1,...,P_n) about the plaintexts. The attack is trivial if it has just as good a chance of producing H(P_1,...,P_n) when given G(C_1,...,C_n) for random C_1,...,C_n. For example, say G(C) = C, and say H(P) is the first bit of P. We can easily write down an attack---the ``guessing attack,'' which simply guesses that H(P) is 1. This attack is trivial because it doesn't use the ciphertext: it has a fifty-fifty chance of guessing correctly no matter what. On the other hand there is an attack on RSA which produces one bit of information about P, with 100% success, using C. If it is fed a random C then the success rate drops to 50%. So this is a nontrivial attack. * What's a known-plaintext attack? The classic known-plaintext attack has F(P_1,P_2) = P_1, G(C_1,C_2) = (C_1,C_2), and H(P_1,P_2) depending only on P_2. In other words, given two ciphertexts C_1 and C_2 and one decryption P_1, the known-plaintext attack should produce information about the other decryption P_2. Note that known-plaintext attacks are often defined in the literature as producing information about the key, but this is pointless: the cryptanalyst generally cares about the key only insofar as it lets him decrypt further messages. * What's a chosen-plaintext attack? A chosen-plaintext attack is the first of an increasingly impractical series of _active_ attacks on a cryptosystem: attacks where the cryptanalyst feeds data to the encryptor. These attacks don't fit into our model of passive attacks explained above. Anyway, a chosen-plaintext attack lets the cryptanalyst choose a plaintext and look at the corresponding ciphertext, then repeat until he has figured out how to decrypt any message. More absurd examples of this sort of attack are the ``chosen-key attack'' and ``chosen-system attack.'' A much more important form of active attack is a message corruption attack, where the attacker tries to change the ciphertext in such a way as to make a useful change in the plaintext. There are many easy ways to throw kinks into all of these attacks: for instance, automatically encrypting any plaintext P as T,E_K(h(T+R+P),R,P), where T is a time-key (sequence number) chosen anew for each message, R is a random number, and h is a one-way hash function. Here comma means concatenation and plus means exclusive-or. * In mathematical terms, what can you say about brute-force attacks? Consider the following known-plaintext attack. We are given some plaintexts P_1,...,P_{n-1} and ciphertexts C_1,...,C_{n-1}. We're also given a ciphertext C_n. We run through every key K. When we find K such that E_K(P_i) = C_i for every i < n, we print D_K(C_n). If n is big enough that only one key works, this attack will succeed on valid inputs all the time, while it will produce correct results only once in a blue moon for random inputs. Thus this is a nontrivial attack. Its only problem is that it is very slow if there are many possible keys. * What's a key-guessing attack? What's entropy? Say somebody is using the one-time pad---but isn't choosing keys randomly and uniformly from all m-bit messages, as he was supposed to for our security proof. In fact say he's known to prefer keys which are English words. Then a cryptanalyst can run through all English words as possible keys. This attack will often succeed, and it's much faster than a brute-force search of the entire keyspace. We can measure how bad a key distribution is by calculating its entropy. This number E is the number of ``real bits of information'' of the key: a cryptanalyst will typically happen across the key within 2^E guesses. E is defined as the sum of -p_K log_2 p_K, where p_K is the probability of key K. ",11 "Re: Blue LED's Baden de Bari (baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca) wrote: : : So what's the story here... we're all stuck with the regular : green, red, and off yellow-orange LED's!? What gives!!?? : Anybody have a 'scoop' on FAIRLY LOW PRICED >BLUE< LED's??? If your looking for LEDs in the $.10-$.20 range, forget it. Blue LEDs just recently became available and the materials they are made of are expensive. Maybe in the future they will become less expensive (and brighter), but for now it's going to cost you and the output will be limited. If they ever do get as efficient and cost effective as red and green LEDs, you're probably going to see a whole new family of color displays. Charlie Brett - Ft. Collins, CO ",12 "Re: Israel's Expansion II rj3s@Virginia.EDU (""Get thee to a nunnery....."") writes: Now I have a comment concerning Israeli terrorism during the 1930's and 1940's. The Hirgun, and other branch - off militant groups, did fight the British do get them out of Palestine. Yet I fail to see how this Israeli form of terrorism was better than the terrorism practiced now by the Arabs. These Jewish terrorist groups killed innocent British soldiers, but not only thta also killed many Jews who were in favor of a compromise with the Palestinians. The Irgun killed SOLDIERS, which is a legitimate way to drive an unwanted fogriend regime from a country. They didn't kill blindly their families or such (not as a policy, I agree that brits which were not soldiers also were killed sometimes) nor they killed Arabs just for being Arabs. In case I have to remind you the difference, the majority of the attacks of the Arab terrorist organizations was on civilians. They even tried to justify their attacks by saying that all Jews in the Israel served in the army at one point in time or another and therefore are legitimate targets. In addition, they massacred an entire Palestinian village in 1948, contributing to the exodus of the frightened Palestinians who feared their very lives. Yes, these exceptions were tragic mistakes. I wasn't there and don't have reffereces handy but from what I heard your description is a bit carried away, most of the vilagers fled with several dozens, most of them claimed to be fighters being killed. Those ""massaceres"" are far from being the rule considering that dozens if not hounders of Arab vilages came under Israeli rule during the same time period. I mention this not because I'm anti semitic [I'm part Jewish] but because this self righteousness on the part of the Israelites pisses me off so. I'm not as critical of the Palestinians because they were indeed screwed over by the Jews. It 's a damn shame that the Palestinians had to pay for German and European anti semitism. What do you mean ""screwed over by the Jews""? They began the '47 war and didn't accept the arrgenment planned by the U.N., what did you expect the Jews to do?? Pissed off at Immature, Closeminded, Self righteous Semites ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Arabs are also Semites. -- --Amos Shapira (Jumper Extraordinaire) | ""It is true that power corrupts, C.S. System Group, Hebrew University, | but absolute power is better!"" Jerusalem 91904, ISRAEL | amoss@cs.huji.ac.il | -- the Demon to his son ",17 "Israel's Expansion Just a couple of questions for the pro-Israeli lobby out there: 1) Is Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon temporary? For Mr. Stein: I am working on a proof for you that Israel is diverting water to the Jordan River (away from Lebanese territory). 2) Is Israel's occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan temporary? If so (for those of you who support it), why were so many settlers moved into the territories? If it is not temporary, let's hear it. Steve ",17 "Re: MODEM PROBLEM: ""No Dialtone"" dudek@acsu.buffalo.edu (The Cybard) writes: >I have a 486DX-33 ISA pc-compatible (Insight) with an Infotel internal >14.4FAX/14.4data modem with QuickLinkII for Windows. When I first put the >modem in, I pulled a phone out of the jack in another room, and ran a phone >line extension to my surge protector and then my computer. The modem >worked fine. Then I split the line from the jack in the other room, ran >the line into my room into the surge protector and up to my computer. Then >I got a regular phone and plugged that into the phone jack in the modem. >Now when I try to use the modem, QuickLinkII says ""No dialtone"". The phone >plugged into the back of the computer works fine. I tried unplugging the >phone, but still no dice. Is it that the phone line was split too many >times? (I don't understand how this could be a problem, since the phone >worked fine.) Please note: none of the software or hardware parameters >were changed, only the phone line itself. Is my new modem faulty? What >can I do? Try swapping the phone cables in the back of the modem. -- The Golden Gryphon gryphon@openage.COM ""The Crown Jewel of the American Prison System."" - President Bill Clinton on living in The White House. Openage - The Premier SCO UNIX integrator in the Washington D.C. area ",3 "Re: Millitello update In article <1993Apr14.175343.3431@alleg.edu>, millits@yankee.org (Sam Millitello) says: > >Uhhhh I think I spelled my name correctly. Sam Millitello. > uhhhh there are only three l's. bob vesterman. ",9 "Sony Amplifier and Crossover for sale FOR SALE!!!! 1) Sony Car Stereo Amplifier (Model XM-2040) Rated Power 20Wx4, into 4 Ohms from 20-20,000Hz @0.5%THD 2 Ohm Stable Short Circuit and Overload Protected This is a great little amplifier that I picked up as a demo model at Lechmere last spring, and never got a chance to install. It's been tested, and it works great...a perfect amplifier for adding 4-speaker power to a system, or for powering mids or tweets...whatever. Mounted on a board, complete with a RS 15 Amp noise filter, with all connections made to barrier strips for easy screw-type contacts. Lists new in Crutchfield for $129, am asking $75 O.B.O complete 2) Sony Electronic Crossover (Model XEC-500) Freq Response 5-100,000 Hz (+0,-3 dB) S/N Ratio 105 dB (A wtd.) High Pass X-Over @flat,80,120,180 Hz (12dB/octave) Low Pas X-Over @50,80,120,180 Hz (18dB/octave) 1/2 DIN size for In-Dash Installation in many cars! This to,l is an exceptional unit which I found extremely useful back in the days when I had a car to put a stereo in. Two sets of RCA-type inputs (F/R), and Three sets of Outputs (F/R/Sub) Each output with seperate level control. variable Low Boost control (+10 dB@40 Hz) for extending low bass, and seperate High and Low pass crossover points make this a great unit for anybody who's interested in building a Sub/Satellite type system Used with orig. box&Papers $130 O.B.O Both units work flawlessly, and are in excellent shape cosmtically (ie No scratches, etc.) Anyone who is interested, please respond to coates@wpi.wpi.edu I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have...oh yeah if you want both I'll sell the Amp with th X-Over for $175 or so...Thanks Jeff ",6 "Gateway Monitor Problem--Again! Help Once again, someone else with a Gateway Monitor problem, anyone who can help, please do, it would be much apprieciated. Thanks in advance. Ok, I have a Local Bus 486/66 machine, with the Crystal Scan 15inch monitor. I have 1 meg of loca memory on the ATI ultra pro, w/ the mach32 driver (the newest release). My problem is in Windows when I use the 1024 mode. I get shadows down the sides of the screens, and very blurry type in the corners. The types on the screen are all out of focus. I've gotten replacement video cards, and a replacement monitor. None of that has helped though. Could someone pleae help me with this very frustruating problem. Thanks again, Josh Smith -- ========================================================================== ""Live now! Make now always the most precious time. | Reply to: Now will never come again!"" Picard, The Inner Light| jlredd@bach.udel.edu ========================================================================== ",3 "Re: Cherokee v. Explorer jcksnste@ACF1.NYU.EDU writes: >Hi All, > Brand new to the group, so please, no flames! >Honest opinions on Jeep Cherokee Country (not Sport) v. Ford Explorer. >My stepfather, who ponders every major decision up to four months AFTER >making it, is looking at one of the two. Also, please comment on the >importance, if any, between 4WD and 2WD. We live in Princeton, NJ and >will barely ever take it off road. We learned with this last winter that >we could really use something with a little more confidence in 20 inches of >snow than an Olds Cutlass Eighty-Eight!! >All replies appreciated.. he'll be pondering this for a while. He's already >decided on 6 cyl. over 4, so don't worry about that one.. >Thanks! >-->Steve I own a new ford Explorer, I really love it! I drove the Jeep and besides the power I just didn't see spending the money for it! The Jeep was great but I just love the Explorer! I have a 2WD and I got through the blizzard of 93 just fine! I drove about 400 miles in the worst part of storm and it never faulterd! My own Opinion Doug i >(jcksnste@acf1.nyu.edu) ",7 "LCD VGA display Please help. I have an IBM-compatible notebook computer with an LCD VGA screen. While I was working with it this morning, the screen started to flicker a little, which I thought was odd since I do use a surge-protector for my computer and all peripherals. It only did this for a second and then stopped. I left the room for several minutes and, when I returned, the screen was completely dim, not blank, but very very dim. The contrast slider still worked so that I could adjust it to where I could *faintly* make out what was on the screen but the brightness slider had absolutely *no* effect. I was plugged-in at the time (i.e., not using the battery) but I still tried switching the battery, changing the power-saver features, etc., etc., all to no avail. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? If this just means that I need to replace the screen then I guess I'll have to but I thought that the ""death"" of my LCD screen would be a little less dramatic when it eventually happened. I didn't want to take it in to be repaired before I asked on the net about this because I already know what they'll say: ""Yep, you gotta have this replaced and it's gonna cost you $???."" I've only had the computer for about 21 months. Is that a reasonable life cycle for a LCD display? Oh, I guess I ought to give specifics here: the brand is Compudyne (Is this a reputable company?), it's a 386SX @ 20 MHz. I forget the model number exactly and I was too ticked off to write it down before coming in to work today. If anyone can help me, PLEASE give me any advice you might have. I'm not opposed to having it replaced, but I'd rather not if it's not absolutely necessary. If you wouldn't mind, please e-mail me at mike@mik.uky.edu but if you'd rather post I'll be checking back here in a couple of days. BTW, if the answer to this question is already in a FAQ somewhere, feel free to flame away but I would ask that you also include the location and name of the FAQ if you don't mind. Thanks in advance for any help... -Mike Mattone (mike@mik.uky.edu) ",1 "Re: Jack Morris In article <1993Apr19.024222.11181@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes: >In article <1993Apr18.032345.5178@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: >>In article <1993Apr18.030412.1210@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira) writes: >>>Howard_Wong@mindlink.bc.ca (Howard Wong) writes: >>> >>>>Has Jack lost a bit of his edge? What is the worst start Jack Morris has had? >>> >>>Uh, Jack lost his edge about 5 years ago, and has had only one above >>>average year in the last 5. >> >>Again goes to prove that it is better to be good than lucky. You can >>count on good tomorrow. Lucky seems to be prone to bad starts (and a >>bad finish last year :-). >> >>(Yes, I am enjoying every last run he gives up. Who was it who said >>Morris was a better signing than Viola?) >> >>Cheers, >>-Valentine > >Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their >fingers. Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his >future. Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best >signing. And don't tell me Boston will win this year. They won't >even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th. > >Shawn > Gee, I never knew Valentine made a comment about how Viola signing with Boston was gonna bring a World Series title to Boston. I don't think Valentine ever said Boston will win this year. Boy, talk about sensitive, insecure Toronto fans. :) In any case, I think Viola would have made a better signing. Why? Viola is younger, and is left handed (how many left handed starters does Toronto have? -Mike /mike@columbia.edu ",9 "Re: Playoff predictions 1st round: ---------- PITT vs NYI: PITT in 4. It looks like a safe bet. NYI has been bagging it of late. NYI and NJD have a showdown Friday night for the honour of Pittsburg anyway. Pigsburg in 4. WASH vs NJD: WASH in 6. I think that NJD have a solid team and will compete with WASH. I agree though with WASH in 6. BOS vs BUF: BOS in 5. The B's have been playing awesome hockey in the last two weeks. The only question is how long will it last? Fuhr is a dud. BOS in 4. QUE vs MON: MON in 7. It seems to me that MON is much like the VAN - no chemistry. The Habs seem to be not in stride. QUE in 5. CHI vs STL: CHI in 4. STL should not be in the playoffs. CHI in 4. DET vs TOR: DET in 6. I am a diehard Leaf fan but ... It seems that the Leafs offense is shutting down in the last week. Can they turn it around against Detroit. As I recall, the last couple of time these two teams met, the Leafs were pummelled. I don't know if Bobbie is allowed in Canada yet. If he is, DET in 5. If not, DET in 6. VAN vs WIN: WIN in 6. Upset in the making here. Another team with bad chemistry. There is something gone foul among Linden, Momesso and Bure. WIN in 6. CAL vs LA: CAL in 5. Anybody that says that LA could possibly beet CAL does not watch the Smythe a whole lot. LA is a bunch of Geritols. CAL in 4. 2nd round: ---------- PITT vs WASH: PITT in 4. It seems to me that Pigsburg has some egos on their team. Their saving grace though is Bowman. He can put anybody in their place. However, if PIGS have a quick first round, they may be a little too high. WASH could be there for a surprise. Having said that, I will say PITT in 6. BOS vs MON: BOS in 6. MON will not be there. BOS is surprising me of late. Cam is great. The couple of wins against QUE last week have sold me with the B's. B's in 6. CHI vs DET: CHI in 7. Yikes. This will not be pretty. But DET is running like a machine of late. They've had a non-busy end of the season in which they played like killers. DET in 6. WIN vs CAL: CAL in 5. CAL has a solid team, a little weak in the nets. CAL will out muscle WIN. CAL in 5. 3rd round: ---------- PITT vs BOS: PITT in 5. I hate PITT. My logic eludes me. The dark side will take over and give BOS the extra push it needs to dump PITT. There may be something to this - if you think of the rivalry. BOS in 7. CHI vs CAL: CHI in 5. Finals: ------ PITT vs CHI: PITT in 5. NO, no, no. We have BOS vs DET. I don't know what to say here. Both teams will be flying and overdue. I will go with goaltending and muscle and say DET in 7. -jake. ",10 "KAWAI K-4 way el cheapo - buy or be sorry, etc. etc. Gotta pay my WELL bill - eating is of mere passing interest in comparison. KAWAI K-4 Synthesizer for $400 IF YOU ACT NOW - cash only pleeze, take delivery in Berkeley. CALL (510) 287-5737 and leave name and number for me to call back and arrange this MARVELOUS FEAST. OFFER EXPIRES SOON (how soon? Soon - believe it.) ACT NOW. Thank you for your support . . . {wheeze} ",6 "Re: Tieing Abortion to Health Reform -- Is Clinton Nuts? ece_0028@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu (David Anderson) writes: >In article <1qcer4INNqh9@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes: >>In article <1993Apr9.154530.15187@colorado.edu> wws@roberts.colorado.edu (Wendy Sullivan) writes: >> >>> Abortion (in many cases) is a choice, birth is a necessary function to keep >>> our population alive. To those who disagree with abortion, I am sure cost >>> is not a major factor. >> >>Make you the same deal I offered Doug. You and the rest of the pro-lifers >>on this net can pay all prenatal and child bearing costs for those poor >>who want to have children, and the pro-choicers on the net will pay for the >>abortions of the poor who don't want to have children. Deal? >> >>Adrienne Regard >So is that all this is about, money? What price do you put >on human life? >Make *you* a deal, Adrienne. Suppose we choose the following >figures: >value of fetus $1 >value of abortionist $10,000,000 >If you'll pay me $1 for every fetus terminated since >Roe v Wade (approx 30,000,000), I'll pay you $10,000,000 >for your martyr, Dr. Gunn. >Deal? I think you are leaving out a great deal of other ""value"". There is no rational reason to give an ""abortionist"" a ""value"" 10 million times that of a fetus. (Why not 10 billion, for instance...oh, but then you would loose on the deal.) Instead we should look at what is *really* involved in each abortion. There is the loss of a human life, a life that would otherwise have eventually become a member of society. That is certainly a non-zero value. There is the physical and emotional suffering of a woman who finds herself with an unwanted pregnancy, and the greater suffering caused by the refusal of society to allow her to deal with it. That woman is *already* a member of society. I argue that the cost of suffering of a *real* member of society is far greater than the loss of a *potential* future member of society. Now, as for your ""deal"". Suppose you ""pay"" the value of all the suffering of every woman who *was* denied an abortion, or *would have been* denied an abortion, under your desired position. And ""we"" will ""pay"" the value of all the potential future members of society that never became a part of it (or *would* not have been a part of it, under *our* desired position). Think about it. Of course, I expect you will object to my argument that suffering of on-going life is worse than loss of just-starting life. If so, please put forth some rational argument for how the life of a (currently) non-sentient creature is somehow worth the suffering of a sentient being. (I figure if I ask enough places, and such an arguement exists, I should eventually see it.) -Rob ",19 "Re: ADCOM GTP500II IR sensor & repeater spec's? In article <1r1996INNijp@hp-col.col.hp.com> johnr@col.hp.com (John T. Rasper) writes: >Does anyone know the details of the interface (5 wire din) for the >IR remote sensor & (2 wire IR repeater) for the ADCOM GTP-500II >preamp? The ADCOM part numbers are the XR-500II, SPM-500II, and >IRA-500II. > >A cursory physical examination of the pre-amp connector indicates >that the connector (5 pin din) may provide: (Viewed from connector front) > > | > 5 1 (pin ?) +?v @ ???mA > 4 2 (pin ?) +/-?v @ ???mA > 3 (pin 3) Signal Ground > (pin ?) Demodulated signal ?V-pp, ? polarity, ? mA drive > (pin ?) Signal to drive repeater LED (drives through 150ohm > resistor) ?V-pp > >I assume that the repeater connectors (mini-plugs) drive the IR repeater >LED's directly. True? > >Can anyone fill in the ?'s. Thanks. > Here's the scoop. When you get your home brew receiver working, would you be willing to share it with the rest of us? I always wanted to build my own but never have the time to fool around and design it. pin 1: signal ground pin 2: signal pin 3: always hot +6 volts pin 4: +6 volts, hot only when preamp is turned on pin 5: infrared repeater connectors The infrared repeater jacks on the back of the preamp are not connected to anything inside the preamp except the 5 pin connector pin #5. There is a 150 ohm resistor between the two jacks, with a 1.5K from pin 5 to ground. The signal pin #2 in the preamp is summed with the built in IR receiver. They use a chip called CX20106A and a BJT to amplify the signal. I would imagine the logical way would be to duplicate this circuit and use it as the external receiver. If you need more info, let me know. Randy randyd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ",12 "What the clipper nay-sayers sound like to me. The following is available in some FTP archive somewhere, I insert my comments liberally throughout this demonic memo of Big Brotherdom: > White House Announcement on Screw Thread Standards > -------------------------------------------------- > > This is to announce that the American National Standards >Institute (or whatever it is) has been given the authority to define >standard dimensions for screw threads. Look! This is clearly the first step toward outlawing our own screw thread specifications. If this madness isn't fought, tooth and nail, every step of the way, it'll be a crime to use screw threads other than those our Fearless Leaders so *graciously* define for us. > The purpose of this is to permit industry to draw upon a standard >pool of specifications and designations, to ensure interoperability of >various threaded objects across vendors. Rubbish, I say! ANSI standard screw threads will have subtle weaknesses, allowing their agents to disassemble our automobiles more easily, causing our mufflers to fall off at inoppurtune moments. > Questions and Answers on the ANSI screw thread standards > -------------------------------------------------------- > >Q: Will the screw threads defined by ANSI be as good as other screw thread >designs available elsewhere? > >A: Yes. Hah! ""trust us"" >Q: Will I be able to use my own screw threads if I desire? > >A: Of course, but this will make your threaded objects unlikely to >interoperate correctly with others within the industry. See??! See? This is the first step. It is clear we must band together, write your congressman! Use Pretty Good Screw Threads, not this devil-inspired ANSI trash. Protect your constitutional right to use whatever screw thread you desire. Guerilla Screw Thread Activism must become the order of the day. Boycott GM, and build your own car, using screws from STZ Screw Thread Associates. Screw you, Bill Clinton! You and your totalitarianist thugs! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ amolitor@nmsu.edu | finger for PGST personal screw thread pitch, or Screw Threads | see the screw thread servers. must be freed! | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",11 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes: >This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net. Watch out for >folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses. They can >cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car. >(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows) >10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in >knoxville, I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate >and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side >of my truck. We slowed down, but after looking back to see the >vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station. >She did get a good look at the guy and saw him ""cock his arm"" with >something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are >VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit >her window, it would have killed her. >The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone. >I am a very good driver (knock on wood), but it was night-time and >I never saw the guy. The police said they thought the motive was to >hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US, >and take the truck. >PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS. AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!! >peace. >-- >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >brian larose larose@cs.utk.edu #12, 3103 Essary Rd. Knoxville, TN 37918. >{} As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5 north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and left. A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do? I don't think I'll over forget this story. Neil Williams, Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA. . ",7 "Re: Is it good that Jesus died? In article arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >You said everyone in the world. That means *everyone* in the world, including >children that are not old enough to speak, let alone tell lies. If Jesus >says ""everyone"", you cannot support that by referring to a group of people >somewhat smaller than ""everyone"". That's right. Everyone. Even infants who cannot speak as yet. Even a little child will rebelliously stick his finger in a light socket. Even a little child will not want his diaper changed. Even a little child will fight nap-time. So far as Jesus saying ""everyone"": A certain ruler asked Jesus, ""Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"" ""Why do you call me good?"" Jesus answered. ""No one is good-- except God alone."" Ken, the book of Romans states that we are born sinners. We do not grow into being a sinner. We sin because we are sinners. The common mistake, even in Christian circles, is to think the reverse true. So for as surely as you grew to look like you parents, you not only inherited their appearance, but also their sin nature. It goes with being human. Even though a new-born is innocent as can be, his sinful nature will surely manifest itself more explicity as he gets older. For as surely as he grows hair on his head and teeth within his mouth, he will show the signs of his innate sin by rebelling against mommy and daddy with that loud proclamation ""No."" ",19 "Beginner's RF ??? Can anybody recommend a good, application-oriented beginner's reference to RF circuits? I am pretty good on theory & know what different types of modulation mean, but don't have a lot of practical experience. A book detailing working circuits of different types (modulation, power, frequency, what is legal, what is not, et cetera), would be very helpful. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Klinkner AT&T Bell Labs srk@boeing.att.com att!boeing!srk ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",12 "Monitors - Nanao? Hello, I've been following discussions on 17"" monitors in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware and noted that the Nanao seems to get very good reviews. I'm interested in getting more information about Nanao's products as well as some others that may fit the bill. I would like a monitor that can handle high resolutions like 1024x1024 NI. I'm envisioning using this monitor on an Amiga 4000 or Amiga 2000 w/a graphics board like the Retina, and/or on a Sun like the SPARCstation LX. Basically I want a high resolution versital monitor. This monitor need not be large (=>17"") if it meets the brief requirements as outlined above. I've been very happy with a 16"" on Suns and could probably cope with smaller at home. I'm interested if anyone has more details on high quality Sony and Hitatchi monitors since they seem to be used on Sun's fairly often and look pretty good (to me at least). I haven't seem them brought up in c.s.i.p.h very often as are Mag and Viewsonic. Ok, stuff I'd like to find out: How can I get ahold of Nanao? What are the products in their line? What are the technical specs? Esp. what scan freq and max resolutions can they handle? What's list and street cost - if avail. from a third party, and where can I get ahold of them? Same info for Sony and Hitatchi. Thank you very much!! -- ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`, ,`,`John Navitsky`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`johnn@eskimo.com,`,`,`, ,`,`Exercise a right today,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`, ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`, ",3 "Re: Harry Caray last night bill veeck cam to me in my dreams and this is what he said: cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs scuk cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs cuck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck oh yeah, he aqlso added that harry is a drunken idiot who shoulda stayed in st louis where his heart is, but also added that fair weathered fans all like to be together. i guess this is the reason harry is now a cub fan, bud man. note he never really left st, louis. jim walker go sox, cubs suck! ",9 "Goedel and the ontological argument Fred Gilham asks whether it is true that Goedel wrote a version of the ontological argument for the existence of God. Yes, it is true. Someone has published a rebuttal pointing out certain flaws in the argument, and recently Professor C Anthony Anderson, of the Philosophy Department of the University of Minnesota, has written a revised version of the argument, perhaps free of flaws, and at any rate free of the flaws complained of in the original version. He has sent me a copy, which I still have (I saw it last week when I was looking for something else), and when it surfaces again I can supply particulars. My guess is that it is being published (or already has been) in the Journal of Symbolic Logic. Yours, James Kiefer ",15 "Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years..... salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) writes: > I wonder if the Universe would look like a Black Hole > from ""outside""? How could we posit an ""Outside"", whether called > DeSitter space, hyperspace, parallel universes, whatever? > > Suppose that such a space existed, and that our universe > looked like a Black Hole in it. Then our Universe could be open > to it through Hawking radiation, the same way Black Holes are > within our Universe. Note this is all the purist speculation > and noone knows what laws govern QM beyond the event horizon > of our universe. Can laws change at such boundaries of space-time? > > Bruce Salem Black holes are where god divided by zero. :-) Nanci ......................................................................... If you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me email (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu): Spring is nature's way of saying, 'Let's party!' ",0 "Re: ESPN Tonight In <1qkj1kINN3g1@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu writes: >Has anyone heard what game ESPN is showing tonight. They said they will >show whatever game means the most playoff-wise. I would assume this would >be the Blues-Tampa game or the Minnesota-Red Wings game... Anyone heard for >sure??? > Jeff Swartz I heard it will be the Minnesota-Detroit game. Don't know the time though. Dave -- David Monack e-mail: monack@gas.uug.arizona.edu ""Love is the delusion that one woman differs from another."" H.L. Mencken ",10 "HeathKit/Zenith Does anyone out there have the toll-free (catalog request and order line) for Heathkit/Zenith? Please post the number if you've got it! Thanks. ",12 "Re: Circuit Cellar Ink address? In article <1qvlmaINNhuu@shelley.u.washington.edu>, ptorre@hardy.u.washington.edu (Phil Torre) wrote: > > Is CCI still published? If so, does anyone have their address? Circuit Cellar Inc. 4 Park St. Suite 20 Vernon, CT 06066 (203)875-2751 Jeff Babb babb@sciences.sdsu.edu babb@ucssun1.sdsu.edu Programmer, SDSU - LARC ",12 "resume I'm about to revise my resume and was wondering if I should put on there the fact that I'm a Christian. Give me some input on what you think. -- Jimmy Buddenberg (ccjim@vax.cns.muskingum.edu) Student Systems Analyst Muskingum College ",15 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qjbn0$na4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >Really? You don't know what objective value is? If I offered the people >of the U.S., collectively, $1 for all of the land in America, would that >sound like a good deal? That happens to be a subjective example that the people of the US would happen to agree on. Continue to move the price up; at some point a few people would accept then more then more until probably all would accept at a high enough number. Endpoints of a subjective scale are not the given homes of objective viewpoints. -jim halat ",19 "Fresco status? I've been hearing rumblings about Fresco, and it sounds like it may be what I'm looking for, but how far is it from release, or at least some kind of availability? How similar is it to InterViews? If I code to InterViews, will my code work with Fresco? How about Motif? I've heard some mention of versions of InterViews which support Motif. Will it be feasible to use Motif with Fresco? Any information would be much appreciated. - Brad -- Brad Daniels ` | ""If money can't buy happiness, daniels@neosoft.com | I guess I'll have to rent it."" I don't work for NeoSoft, and | - Weird Al Yenkovic don't speak for my employer. | ",5 "Sony CarDiscman ForSale I have a used Sony D-808K CarDiscman for sale. I bought it new on June 16, 1992. It still has the one-year warranty intact. Specifications: Sony's best car discman perfect condition 8X oversampling 1-bit D/A converter 3-beam laser pickup dual color display DSP sound processing (Bass Boost and DDS modes) w/ 3 levels of effect 2-way repeat hold mode can also run on just 2 AA batteries 30 track programming w/ repeat random play w/ delete fused cigarette lighter adapter (could save the player if something goes wrong Accesories: headphone plug & line-out jack Sony MDR-34 headphones AC power Adapter patch cord for home use automobile mouting plate car conecting pack remote control(great for home use) carrying case extra fuses This unit is great to use in any car. Can be moved easily between vehicles. Works well in home or car. Just need cigaraette lighter/outlet and a cassette player. I have everything that it came with manuals, packaging, receipts etc. The unit is in perfect condition with normal well taken care of use. Extremely versatile and manuverable unit that can be used anywhere. I am asking $250 for the system and extras. Please e-mail if interested. Brent Wagner wagnerbm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (317) 495-4471 ",6 "The *real* way to speed up ballgames... The *real* way to speed up ballgames is for each home park owner to offer the following schedule of bonuses to players on *both* teams: For all players who participated in the game, offer $500 for each 10 minutes less than 3 hours the game took (i.e. if the game only took 2.5 hours, each player gets a bonus of $1500). For all pitchers throwing 3 or more full innings in the game, extrapolate the number of pitches or attempted pickoffs to the number they would have thrown in a full 9 innings, and offer $500 for each number less than 120. (If the pitcher throws a complete game with 100 pitches and 5 throws to first he would get $7500). I suspect you could finance this the same way Presidential campaigns are paid for. Offer each fan a checkoff on his or her ticket that says ""I want 5% of the price of this ticket to go towards fast game bonuses""... -- ====================================================================== domain: tahorsley@csd.harris.com USMail: Tom Horsley uucp: ...!uunet!hcx1!tahorsley 511 Kingbird Circle Delray Beach, FL 33444 +==== Censorship is the only form of Obscenity ======================+ | (Wait, I forgot government tobacco subsidies...) | +====================================================================+ ",9 "Re: 300ZX or SC300??? In article <1993Apr19.000758.53229@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes: >I'm getting a car in the near future. I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300. >Which might be a better choice? Having driven both, and having owned an SC300 for 14 months now, all I can say is ""it depends"". They're both great cars. In fact, my wife and I are saving our pennies so we can get her the 300ZX convertible in a year. The 300ZX handles like a dream, while the SC300 rides like a dream. Fit and finish on both are excellent, but the Lexus gets the nod in customer satisfaction. They're both very attractive, and hideously expensive. The resale value of the SC is better than the ZX. The 300ZX isn't available with traction control, which makes it a handful on slippery surfaces. -- Jim Battan - Sequent Computer Systems, Beaverton, OR battan@sequent.com or uunet!sequent!battan +1 503 578 5129 ",7 "Galileo Update - 04/15/93 Forwarded from Neal Ausman, Galileo Mission Director GALILEO MISSION DIRECTOR STATUS REPORT POST-LAUNCH April 9 - 15, 1993 SPACECRAFT 1. On April 9, real-time commands were sent, as planned, to reacquire celestial reference after completion of the Low Gain Antenna (LGA-2) swing/Dual Drive Actuator (DDA) hammer activities. 2. On April 9, the EJ-1 (Earth-Jupiter #1) sequence memory load was uplinked to the spacecraft without incident. This sequence covers spacecraft activity from April 12, 1993 to June 14, 1993 and includes a window for the Radio Relay Antenna (RRA) slew test on April 28, 1993. The command loss timer was set to 11 days as a part of this sequence memory load. 3. On April 12 and 15, a NO-OP command was sent to reset the command loss timer to 264 hours, its planned value during this mission phase. 4. On April 12, cruise science Memory Readouts (MROs) were performed for the Extreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer (EUV), Dust Detector (DDS), and Magnetometer (MAG) instruments. Preliminary analysis indicates the data was received properly. 5. On April 12, an Ultra-Stable Oscillator (USO) test was performed to verify the health status of the USO and to collect gravitational red shift experiment data; long term trend analysis is continuing. 6. On April 14, a 40bps modulation index test was performed to determine the optimal Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) when transmitting at 40bps. Preliminary analysis of the data suggests that the present pre-launch selected modulation index is near the optimal level. 7. On April 15, cruise science Memory Readouts (MROs) were performed for the Extreme Ultraviolet Spectrometer (EUV) and Magnetometer (MAG) instrument. Preliminary analysis indicates the data was received properly. 8. On April 15, a periodic RPM (Retro-Propulsion Module) 10-Newton thruster flushing maintenance activity was performed; all 12 thrusters were flushed during the activity. Thruster performance throughout the activity was nominal. 9. The AC/DC bus imbalance measurements have not exhibited significant changes (greater than 25 DN) throughout this period. The AC measurement reads 19 DN (4.3 volts). The DC measurement reads 111 DN (12.9 volts). These measurements are consistent with the model developed by the AC/DC special anomaly team. 10. The Spacecraft status as of April 15, 1993, is as follows: a) System Power Margin - 60 watts b) Spin Configuration - Dual-Spin c) Spin Rate/Sensor - 3.15rpm/Star Scanner d) Spacecraft Attitude is approximately 18 degrees off-sun (lagging) and 6 degrees off-earth (leading) e) Downlink telemetry rate/antenna- 40bps(coded)/LGA-1 f) General Thermal Control - all temperatures within acceptable range g) RPM Tank Pressures - all within acceptable range h) Orbiter Science- Instruments powered on are the PWS, EUV, UVS, EPD, MAG, HIC, and DDS i) Probe/RRH - powered off, temperatures within acceptable range j) CMD Loss Timer Setting - 264 hours Time To Initiation - 260 hours GDS (Ground Data Systems): 1. Galileo participated in a second DSN (Deep Space Network) acceptance test for the DSN Telemetry Phase 3 Upgrade on April 13, 1993, using CTA-21 (Compatibility Test Area 21). The purpose of this test was to verify the flow of Galileo telemetry data through the new Telemetry Group Controller (TGC) and the Telemetry Channel Assembly (TCA). The TGC/TCA is the replacement for the current Telemetry Processing Assembly (TPA). Seven different telemetry rates were run for this test; all ran well on both the MTS (MCCC Telemetry Subsystem) and the AMMOS MGDS V18.0 GIF with the exception of 10bps. The 10bps rate had some trouble staying in lock; it appears the TGC/TCA was not metering the data correctly. Further comparisons between the MGDS and MTS data from this test are being conducted. MVT (Mission Verification Test) of the TGC/TCA system is expected to begin May 16, 1993. TRAJECTORY As of noon Thursday, April 15, 1993, the Galileo Spacecraft trajectory status was as follows: Distance from Earth 152,606,000 km (1.02 AU) Distance from Sun 277,519,800 km (1.86 AU) Heliocentric Speed 93,400 km per hour Distance from Jupiter 543,973,900 km Round Trip Light Time 17 minutes, 4 seconds SPECIAL TOPIC 1. As of April 15, 1993, a total of 70184 real-time commands have been transmitted to Galileo since Launch. Of these, 65076 were initiated in the sequence design process and 5108 initiated in the real-time command process. In the past week, 7 real time commands were transmitted: 6 were initiated in the sequence design process and one initiated in the real time command process. Major command activities included commands to reacquire celestial reference, uplink the EJ-1 sequence memory load, and reset the command loss timer. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Being cynical never helps /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | to correct the situation |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | and causes more aggravation | instead. ",14 "Re: WC 93: Results, April 18 etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes: > > Forwards: > 13. Richard Zemlicka ? In the season 92/93 playing for EHC Freiburg/Germany Benny. -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _I I I I Benny Reif email:reif@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de I I I I_ I I I I I_______________________________________________________I I I I I I_I I I I Disclaimer: this text reflects MY opinion, I I I I_I ",10 "Re: The doctrine of Original Sin In article Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com writes: >>If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn't the Bible >>ever say so. It never comes right and says ""Only people that know >>right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised."" > >This is not a very sound argument for baptising babies. It assumes that >if the Bible doesn't say specifically that you don't need to do something, >then that must mean that you do need to do it. I know there's a specific >term for this form of logic, but it escapes me right now. However, if it >were sound, then you should be able to apply it this way; If the Bible >doesn't specifically say that something is wrong, then it must be OK, >which, coincidentally, leads perfectly into a question I've often pondered. This is no less logical than the assumption that if something is _not_ in the Bible, then it _must not_ be done. But I don't really think that's what he's saying anyway. See below. >If slavery is immoral (which I believe it is, can I assume that everyone >else in this group does too?), why doesn't Jesus or any of the apostles >speak out against it? Owning slaves was common practice back then. Paul >speaks about everything else that is immoral. He apparently thought it >was important enough to talk about things like not being a drunkard. Why >doesn't anyone mention slavery? If God's morals are eternal and don't >change like the morals of society, then it must have been just as immoral then >as it is today. What about the letter to Philemon? In it Paul at least hints that a certain slave be released. Also, slavery in those times was not the same as the type of slavery we had in the U.S. I think a better comparison would be to indentured servitude. I don't really want to get into a discussion on slavery. Anyway, although it does demonstrate your point, I don't think it is relevent, because the original poster did not say that absence of specific condemenation proves something is not immoral. Back to the original poster's assertion. He is not in fact making the logical error of which you accuse him. He stated the fact that the Bible does not say that babies cannot be baptized. Also, we know that the Bible says that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven. _Everyone_ includes infants, unless there is other Scripture to the contrary, i.e. an exception. Since there is no exception listed in the Bible, we must assume (to be on the safe side) that the Bible means what it says, that _everyone_ must be baptized to enter Heaven. And so we baptize infants. To summarize, you accused the original poster of saying if something is not forbidden by the Bible, then that proves it is OK; i.e. if something cannot be disproven, it is true. He rather seemed to be asserting that since the Bible does not forbid, _you cannot prove_, using the Bible, that it is _not_ OK. There is a difference between proving whether or not something can be proven or disproven (there are theories on provability in the field of Logic, by the way) and actually proving or disproving it. The other logical error we must avoid falling into is the converse: that if something cannot be proven, then it is false. This seems to be the error of many _sola scriptura_ believers. I think the only thing that can be proven here is that one cannot use Scripture alone to prove something either way about infant Baptism, although the evidence seems to me to favor it. - - - - - - - - - - Steve Creps, Indiana University creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu ",15 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies In article <13714@news.duke.edu>, infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew Infante) wrote: > > My /5 will do wheelies because it's a chain drive model. > > > > Wow, is that custom made? No, it is the stock setup. Someone really ought to put an end to the confusion regarding BMW's chain drive boxers. Didn't someone post the FAQ on this some time ago? In essence, it describes the problem BMW is having with their decision to settle down to a shaft drive as a standard. They vacilate and persist in reintroducing the chain drive in various models. (R/C) Gosh. Well, on with the crusade! ==================================================== John Stafford Minnesota State University @ Winona All standard disclaimers apply. ",8 "Re: Honda clutch chatter. In article <185900002@hpindda.cup.hp.com> jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes: > From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 23:08:56 GMT > Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA > Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!hpindda!jimb > Newsgroups: rec.autos > References: <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com> > Lines: 16 > > It's nice to know that I'm not alone out there when it comes to clutch, etc > problems on late model Hondas. If I get a few more supportive responses > I will take them to my local Honda dealer or maybe send them to the regional > rep in Southern Calif. for their input on the problem. Maybe some group > pressure from Honda owners can be placed on Honda to find a solution, such > as a retrofit of the clutch?? > > Or, maybe I'll just sell the blasted vehicle and go back to driving my 10 > year old pick-up which was (now fixed) having clutch problems and caused me > to look for what I thought would be a trouble-free solution. Ya sure. Not > to put down Honda or anything - the Accord has performed flawlessly in all > other areas for its 16,000 miles. > > As it is said ""out of all this something will develop!"" > > Later folks. Not alone at all. My old 83 Accord (now in the hands of a sibling) has a much better engagement of the clutch. Even the old 84 Civic we keep as a beater feels better in this aspect. Note that these are cars with 250,000 kms and 140,000 kms respectively. My 90 Prelude blows both of them away in every respect except smooth clutch engagement. Of course the Kawasaki is the best of the bunch but I need more than 2 wheels most of the time. The Prelude has had a dud clutch from day 1, and after three years and 67,000 kms is no better. Best of luck and feel free to add this to your collection. Jeff Goss ",7 "Re: ""So help you God"" in court? In article 013423TAN102@psuvm.psu.edu, Andrew Newell writes: ->In article <1993Apr9.151914.1885@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu ->(Mark McCullough) says: ->> ->>In article monack@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (david ->>n->>monack) writes: ->>>Another issue is that by having to request to not be required to ->>>recite the ""so help me God"" part of the oath, a theistic jury may be ->>>prejudiced against your testimony even though atheism is probably not ->>>at all relevant to the case. ->>> ->>>What is the recommended procedure for requesting an alternate oath or ->>>affirmation? ->>> ->>>Dave Sorry for using a follow-up to respond, but my server dropped about a weeks worth of news when it couldn't keep up. When the you are asked to swear ""So help you god"" and you have to say it, ask which one; Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, Zues, Odin. Get them to be specific. Don't be obnoxious, just humbly ask, then quitely sit back and watch the fun. --- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- James L. Felder | Sverdrup Technology,Inc. | phone: 216-891-4019 NASA Lewis Research Center | Cleveland, Ohio 44135 | email: jfelder@lerc.nasa.gov ""Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge, other people gargle"" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",0 "Alt.Atheism FAQ: Overview for New Readers Archive-name: atheism/overview Alt-atheism-archive-name: overview Last-modified: 5 April 1993 Version: 1.2 Overview Welcome to alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated. This is the first in a series of regular postings aimed at new readers of the newsgroups. Many groups of a 'controversial' nature have noticed that new readers often come up with the same questions, mis-statements or misconceptions and post them to the net. In addition, people often request information which has been posted time and time again. In order to try and cut down on this, the alt.atheism groups have a series of five regular postings under the following titles: 1. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Overview for New Readers 2. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Introduction to Atheism 3. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) 4. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Constructing a Logical Argument 5. Alt.Atheism FAQ: Atheist Resources This is article number 1. Please read numbers 2 and 3 before posting. The others are entirely optional. If you are new to Usenet, you may also find it helpful to read the newsgroup news.announce.newusers. The articles titled ""A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community"", ""Answers to Frequently Asked Questions about Usenet"" and ""Hints on writing style for Usenet"" are particularly relevant. Questions concerning how news works are best asked in news.newusers.questions. If you are unable to find any of the articles listed above, see the ""Finding Stuff"" section below. Credits These files could not have been written without the assistance of the many readers of alt.atheism and alt.atheism.moderated. In particular, I'd like to thank the following people: kck+@cs.cmu.edu (Karl Kluge) perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) NETOPRWA@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu (Wayne Aiken) chpetk@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Toby Kelsey) jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) geoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold) torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf) roe2@quads.uchicago.edu (Greg Roelofs) arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) J5J@psuvm.psu.edu (John A. Johnson) dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) mayne@open.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne) ajr@bigbird.hri.com (Andy Rosen) stoesser@ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser) bosullvn@unix1.tcd.ie (Bryan O'Sullivan) lippard@ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) s1b3832@rigel.tamu.edu (S. Baum) ydobyns@phoenix.princeton.edu (York H. Dobyns) schroede@sdsc.edu (Wayne Schroeder) baldwin@csservera.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin) D_NIBBY@unhh.unh.edu (Dana Nibby) dempsey@Kodak.COM (Richard C. Dempsey) jmunch@hertz,elee.calpoly.edu (John David Munch) pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) rz@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Richard Zach) tycchow@math.mit.edu (Tim Chow) simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) ...and countless others I've forgotten. These articles are free. Truly free. You may copy them and distribute them to anyone you wish. However, please send any changes or corrections to the author, and please do not re-post copies of the articles to alt.atheism; it does nobody any good to have multiple versions of the same document floating around the network. Finding Stuff All of the FAQ files *should* be somewhere on your news system. Here are some suggestions on what to do if you can't find them: 1. Check the newsgroup alt.atheism. Look for subject lines starting with ""Alt.Atheism FAQ:"". 2. Check the newsgroup news.answers for the same subject lines. If you don't find anything in steps 1 or 2, your news system isn't set up correctly, and you may wish to tell your system administrator about the problem. 3. If you have anonymous FTP access, connect to rtfm.mit.edu [18.172.1.27]. Go to the directory /pub/usenet/alt.atheism, and you'll find the latest versions of the FAQ files there. FTP is a a way of copying files between networked computers. If you need help in using or getting started with FTP, send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with send usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in the body. 4. There are other sites which also carry news.answers postings. The article ""Introduction to the news.answers newsgroup"" carries a list of these sites; the article is posted regularly to news.answers. 5. If you don't have FTP, send mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu consisting of the following lines: send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources send usenet/alt.atheism/faq send usenet/alt.atheism/introduction send usenet/alt.atheism/logic send usenet/alt.atheism/resources 5. (Penultimate resort) Send mail to mail-server@mantis.co.uk consisting of the following lines: send atheism/faq/faq.txt send atheism/faq/logic.txt send atheism/faq/intro.txt send atheism/faq/resource.txt and our poor overworked modems will try and send you a copy of the files. There's other stuff, too; interesting commands to try are ""help"" and ""send atheism/index"". 6. (Last resort) Mail mathew@mantis.co.uk, or post an article to the newsgroup asking how you can get the FAQ files. You should only do this if you've tried the above methods and they've failed; it's not nice to clutter the newsgroup or people's mailboxes with requests for files. it's better than posting without reading the FAQ, though! For instance, people whose email addresses get mangled in transit and who don't have FTP will probably need assistance obtaining the FAQ files. mathew ÿ ",0 "Soundblaster v2.0 drivers for Win 3.1?? Hi all, could someone please tell me if there are drivers for windows 3.1 for the new soundblaster 2.0. Or will the 1.5 drivers be sufficient? I would be appreciate any info. Thanks, Greg Ennis 93gke@cs.williams.edu ",2 "Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR In article <1993Apr15.214032.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu writes: > >> Not clear to me at all. I'd certainly rather have a team who was winning >> 4-1 games than 2-1 games. In the 2-1 game, luck is going to play a much >> bigger role than in the 4-1 game. > >But you still need the pitching staff to hold the opposing team to >one run. Yeah, but what's your point? You still need the offense to score more runs than you allow, too. The Braves do have a fine pitching staff. But that's still only half the game. Sherri Nichols snichols@adobe.com ",9 "Re: 1993 NHL Draft In article <1993Apr20.184627.4585@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes: >As for the picks >Ottawa picks #1 which means it is almost 100% that Alexander Daigle will >go #1. He'll either stay or be traded in Montreal or Quebec. IMO I would >take Kariya. He should alot of leadership in the NCAA and so far in >the World Championships. Daigle didn't show this for his junior team. > >San Jose will then get Kariya. > >Tampa Bay will either go for a russian Kozlov (I think that's it) or a > defenseman Rob Niedemeyer (probably spelt the last name wrong) The last name is Niedermayer, as in New Jersey's Scott's last name, because (you guessed it) they are brothers. But Rob Niedermayer is a center, not a defenseman. I am not sure that the Sharks will take Kariya. They aren't saying much, but they apparently like Niedermayer and Victor Kozlov, along with Kariya. Chris Pronger's name has also been mentioned. My guess is that they'll take Niedermayer. They may take Pronger, except that they already have too many defensive prospects. =============================================================================== GO CALGARY FLAMES! Al MacInnis for Norris! Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe! GO EDMONTON OILERS! Go for playoffs next year! Stay in Edmonton! =============================================================================== Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu) rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks ",10 "Re: Where did the hacker ethic go? In article <1s0p7n$m3o@pandora.sdsu.edu> add@sciences.sdsu.edu (James D. Murray) writes: >Perhaphs what Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are now is the result of the >natural evolution of a ""successful"" hacker. Either you make money, go >to jail (Lee Feldenstein [sp?]), or just fade away as ""Oh, that's uncle >so-and-so who *really* likes computers..."". > >What a ""computer hacker"" is and does will change as long as the definition >of the word ""computer"" continues to change. > Or perhaps you write a freely available, GPLed unix for commonly available computer platforms (i386/i486 machines) and become a catalyst for a major netwide project which produces a better unix-like os than many commercial counterparts (see comp.os.linux for details). Or maybe you found a Legue for Programming Freedom to fight restrictive litigation and software patenting practices, thereby protecting the creative freedom so vital to continuing progress in our field. Or maybe you start up a gnu project, and produce by far and away the best c/c++ compiler for unix there is, not to mention other valuable utilities. Some hackers make significant contributions without selling out their ideals. As for Bill Gates, after pawning of grossly inferior software onto the PC market for ten years, if he ever was a hacker, he deserves to have his name eradicated from the Annals of Computer Hackery. As for me, I like running linux+X+countless other packages, without paying a dime. On the other hand, I have no problem purchasing motif or other good software, as long as Microsoft hasn't fouled it with their inept input. My 2 cents worth, flames will be patiently ignored. :-) Jean. -- Jean Liddle Computer Science, Illinois State University e-mail: jliddle@ilstu.edu -------------------------------------------- ",1 "Re: Psygnosis CD-I titles (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???) Mark Samson (samson@prlhp1.prl.philips.co.uk) wrote: > Speaking of Psygnosis, they have licensed games to Philips Interative > Media International for CD-I. And for the Commodore CDTV. -- ========================================================= = Regards = email: = 1280x512x262000+ = = Mattias = matt-dah@dsv.su.se = I love it. = ========================================================= ",1 "X386 server problems Hello, I'm trying to get X11R5 running on my PC and ran into the following error message when trying to start the Xserver. ------ Setting TCP SO_DONTLINGER: Option not supported by protocol X386 Version 1.2 / X Windows System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 5000) Fatal server error no screens found giving up xinit: software cased connection abort (errno 130): unable to connect to X xserver. ------ does anyone know what this error means ? has anyone experienced this problem ? help will be much appreciated thanks in advance. please send replies to Christy ",5 "X window application Hello, My friend is interested in collecting information of the X window application areas. Say X window in Banking system/Real-estate/traffic information system /postal service etc on any world 8-). I would appreciate any information which is a pointer to find any such documents. Thank you very much in advance, --- J. Park ",5 "Re: Traffic morons In article <10326.97.uupcb@compdyn.questor.org>, ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) wrote: > > NMM>From: nielsmm@imv.aau.dk (Niels Mikkel Michelsen) > NMM>Subject: How to act in front of traffic jerks > > NMM>The other day, it was raining cats and dogs, therefor I was going only to > NMM>the speed limit, on nothing more, on my bike. This guy in his BMW was > NMM>driving 1-2 meters behind me for 7-800 meters and at the next red light I > NMM>calmly put the bike on its leg, walked back to this car, he rolled down the > NMM>window, and I told him he was a total idiot (and the reason why). > > NMM>Did I do the right thing? imho, you did the wrong thing. You could have been shot or he could have run over your bike or just beat the shit out of you. Consider that the person is foolish enough to drive like a fool and may very well _act_ like one, too. Just get the heck away from the idiot. IF the driver does something clearly illegal, you _can_ file a citizens arrest and drag that person into court. It's a hassle for you but a major hassle for the perp. ==================================================== John Stafford Minnesota State University @ Winona All standard disclaimers apply. ",8 "INTEL CHMOS 8086/8088 DESIGN KIT I have this kit which includes the following : 1) 82c84a/82c84a-5 CHMOS CLOCK GENERATOR AND DRIVER FOR 8086,80C88 PROCESSORS 2) 27C64/87C64 64K(8Kx8) CHMOS UV ERASABLE PROM 3) 51C259L LOW POWER 64K x 4 CHMOS DYNAMIC RAM 4) 82C59A-2 CHMOS PROGRAMMABLE INTERRUPT CONTROLLER 5) 82C88 CHMOS BUS CONTROLLER FRO 80C86,80C88 PROCESSORS 6) 80C88/80C88-2 8-BIT CHMOS MICROPROCESSOR 7) 82C55A CHMOS PROGRAMMABLE PERIPHERAL INTERFACE 8) 82C54 CHMOS PROGRAMMABLE INTERVAL TIMER 9) 82C08 CHMOS DYNAMIC RAM CONTROLLER All these are chips with complete manual in a box. I don't know whether they still work or not, and I don't really know what they are. So this is mainly for those who knows what this is and have use of it (probably EE stuff since this used to belong to a EE student) Anyone interested, please make me an offer. Jonina ",6 "HELP - E_Mail Address of Caere Corporation =============================================================================== I'm looking for the E_Mail Address of the Caere Corporation. Their Address is: CAERE CORPORATION 100 COOPER COURT LOS GATOS CALIFONIA 95030 If you know the address o have access to find it. Please could you send it to me. My E_Mail Address is: Thanking you in advance, Zia. ",4 "Re: OBP hurt by sac flies (was Re: HBP? BB? BIG-CAT?) In article <1993Apr23.065059.16619@rigel.econ.uga.edu> scottm@helena.stat.uga.edu (scott mclure) writes: >Sorry, I gotta disagree here. Last time I played ball, I went up on >several occasions intending to hit a fly ball deep enough to score the >runner from third or advance a runner to third. It's relatively easy >actually... you swing under the path of the ball you normally would to >hit a good line drive. With fastballs it's very easy, much more >difficult with good breaking balls. A good hitter with excellent bat >control can voluntarily hit fly balls to the outfield at least, oh, 60% >of the time? Maybe more.. There's a blurb in the STATS Scoreboard about this, and though I don't have the book with me here, my memory is that the best at hitting sac flies were far below this 60% number. Sherri Nichols snichols@adobe.com ",9 "Re: Pregnency without sex? In article <1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU> matthews@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews) writes: >All right, listen up.... What are the possibilities of transmission through >swimming pool water? Especially if the chlorination isn't up to par? > >I've heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what >else is going on? > > But the sperm would be very diluted in a ""x"" gallon swimming pool -- _____________________________________________________________________________ * J e n n i f e r S c h e i b e r * email: scheiber@sage.cc.purdue.edu School of Nursing - Purdue University ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",13 "Re: chronic sinus and antibiotics In article <1qk708INNa12@mojo.eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes: >You can also swab the inside of your nose with Bacitracin using a >Q tip. Bacitracin is an antibiotic that can be bought OTC as an >ointment in a tube. The doctor I listen to on the radio says to apply >it for 30 days, while you are taking other antibiotics by mouth. I have a new doctor who gave me a prescription today for something called Septra DS. He said it may cause GI problems and I have a sensitive stomach to begin with. Anybody ever taken this antibiotic. Any good? Suggestions for avoiding an upset stomach? Other tips? Phil de Haan (DoD #0578) Why yes. That is my 1974 Honda CL360. ============================================================================= ""That's the nature of being an executive in America. You have to rely on other people to do something you used to do yourself."" -- Donald Fehr, executive director, Major League Baseball Players Association. ============================================================================= ",13 "Re: Ray Lankford question... >Does anybody know what is going on with Lankford? I know he was >out for a few games with a slight injury, but since he has >beenback (and before the injury for that matter) he has been >really struggling at the plate and on the basepaths. > >Whereis the Ray Lankford we saw last year??? I beg to differ, he had a couple 3 hit games after he came back. He did get caught stealing though. He also missed sunday's game. Did he play tonight? If not, I'm worried. He's on my team too. ---Patrick ",9 "x11perfcomp visualization ? Hi, is there any script/program/thelike already existing which could transform the output of x11perfcomp (a huge table) into a nice 3d'ish diagram or graph by producing postscript output from x11perfcomp input ? Maybe someone has already written such beast ... -- +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ | o | \\\- Brain Inside -/// | o | | o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o | | o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o | +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ ",5 "Re: Why is my mouse so JUMPY? (MS MOUSE) ecktons@ucs.byu.edu (Sean Eckton) writes: >I have a Microsoft Serial Mouse and am using mouse.com 8.00 (was using 8.20 >I think, but switched to 8.00 to see if it was any better). Vertical motion >is nice and smooth, but horizontal motion is so bad I sometimes can't click >on something because my mouse jumps around. I can be moving the mouse to >the right with relatively uniform motion and the mouse will move smoothly >for a bit, then jump to the right, then move smoothly for a bit then jump >again (maybe this time to the left about .5 inch!). This is crazy! I have >never had so much trouble with a mouse before. Anyone have any solutions? >Does Microsoft think they are what everyone should be? <- just venting steam! I had the same problem. At first, I thought it was the video driver and made sure I had the most current drivers, because the problem was most evident at SVGA resolution modes. It didn't help and after a bit of experimentation, determined that the problem existed in standard VGA resolution mode. It was just much less noticeable. My mouse was an older MS serial version I bought second hand in 1990. It worked just fine in DOS and DOS based graphic applications. On the guess that the problem was with the resolution of the mouse, I borrowed a new mouse (a MS bus model) and tried it. That solved the problem. So, if your mouse is old, you may want to try replacing it for a newer one. >--- >Sean Eckton >Computer Support Representative >College of Fine Arts and Communications >D-406 HFAC >Brigham Young University >Provo, UT 84602 >(801)378-3292 >hfac_csr@byu.edu >ecktons@ucs.byu.edu -- signoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Russ Lister rlister@cti.com -or- {well connected systen}!uunet!cti1!rlister Comprehensive Technologies Int'l Inc., Arlington, VA ============================================================================== ",2 "Re: An Anecdote about Islam >DATE: 5 Apr 1993 23:32:28 GMT >FROM: Jon Livesey > >In article <114127@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: >|> >|> I don't understand the point of this petty sarcasm. It is a basic >|> principle of Islam that if one is born muslim or one says ""I testify >|> that there is no god but God and Mohammad is a prophet of God"" that, >|> so long as one does not explicitly reject Islam by word then one _must_ >|> be considered muslim by all muslims. So the phenomenon you're attempting >|> to make into a general rule or psychology is a direct odds with basic >|> Islamic principles. If you want to attack Islam you could do better than >|> than to argue against something that Islam explicitly contradicts. > >Then Mr Mozumder is incorrect when he says that when committing >bad acts, people temporarily become atheists? > >jon. Of course B.M. is not incorrect. He is defending Islam. When defending Islam against infidels you can say anything and no one will dare criticize you. But when an atheist uses the same argument he is using ""petty sarcasm"". So B.M. can have his ""temporary atheists"" whenever he needs them and all the ""temporary atheists"" can later say that they were always good Muslims because they never explicitly rejected Islam. Temporary atheism, temporary Islam, temporary marriage. None of it sticks. A teflon religion. How convenient. And so easy to clean up after. But then, what would you expect from a bunch of people who can't even agree on the phases of the moon? ",0 "Re: Buick heater controls I had the exactly same problem with my '70 Lesabre. It was also from Cal. What I did was go to the local junkyard and pick up a diaphragm from a '68 Lesabre with the same heater set up. It worked for me, but a little bit slow to change from vents to defogger. Better than nothing! ",7 "Yankees Schedule Can someone in this net post a Yankee Schedule? I need this right away. Thank You ",9 "Re: Mormon temples In article shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker) writes: | Early in Church history, the catechumens were dismissed prior to the celebration | of the Eucharist. It WAS secret, giving rise to the rumors that Christians I have no problem with the idea that catechumens be dismissed before the Eucharist. They were not considered qualified to participate. | were cannibals and all sorts of perverse claims. The actions were considered | too holy to be observed by non-Christians, as well as potentially dangerous | for the individual Christian who might be identified. Does the dismissal in the early church mean that the eucharist was a secret? I mean, was it: you don't have to stay; from now on, only the membership can participate; you really don't have to hang around; yes, I know you're obliged to keep up attendance to qualify, but now is an exception, okay? or was it: you may not stay; what happens next is secret When we have had reason to conduct business meetings after church, we've made it clear that only members can vote. But we've always been happy for non-members to stay and observe. Do you have evidence for intentional secrecy? (Other than rumours, which will always happen when you have an underclass doing things not approved of by those in power?) -- Christopher ",15 "Re: Photographers removed from compound In article , roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes: > two news photographers were found > on the compound earlier this morning without permission. It was explained > to the press corps. that this is dangerous and that an unknown photographer > turning around with a long lens camera could be mistaken for someone dangerous > by a Texas Ranger surveying the site. (!) In other words, ""Nice camera you got dere. It would be a shame if somet'in wuz ta happen to it..."" > The two photographers were said to be currently in jail > It was also emphasized that the survey of the ""crime"" scene at this > point was crucial and that the press could not be allowed to interfere. > The press will not be allowed in until the bodies are removed and the > site has been completely surveyed for evidence for a court case. > My opinions: > ----------- > I find this disturbing. Good. Keep thinking critically. > While I believe that Koresh is largely > responsible for not ending this standoff in a peacable manner during the > last 51 days of patient opportunity, I find the secrecy surrounding the > aftermath more damaging to the authorities' position than they realize. What if the secrecy is actually LESS damaging than the alternative? > I am basing my opinions on info gathered from various media and filtered > by my own common sense and consideration of plausibility, IMHO. As such, > my opinion is subject to change as more information is made available. > Please also note that I by no means endorse or agree with the many > conspiracy-type theories I have read here and in other groups. Make your own bite-size pieces. We'll wait. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Re: Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing) In article schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: >In other words, Boeing is not seriously thinking about >reliable, less-expensive access to orbit. They just like >to fool around with exotic airplanes. This presupposes that no supersonic ramjet aircraft/spacecraft can be reliable or low-cost. This is unproven. -- Matthew DeLuca Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!matthew Internet: matthew@phantom.gatech.edu ",14 "Re: Upgrading PB170 Memory In article <1993Apr17.185806.7216@ncar.ucar.edu>, bill@lhotse.hao.ucar.edu (Bill Roberts) wrote: > > I have one of the original Powerbook 170's (with 4Mb of Ram) and find > that 4Mb is a drag when trying to do my work. So, what is the best way > to get the maximum RAM for this unit, and what's it going to cost me? > I'm hoping I can get the latest and best info from real users by posting > to this group. Well Bill, There are 2MB soldered on the logic board and 2MB in the RAM expansion slot giving you 4MB. The only thing you can do to upgrade to the maximum Ram is to remove the 2MB expansion and install a 6MB expansion, giving you a total of 8MB which is the max on a 170....You can try calling TechWorks, or any other memory vendors out of MacWeek, MacWorld...etc.... <==================================+==================================> Peter Haase + Internet: haase@meediv.lanl.gov Network Manager + Los Alamos National Laboratory ",4 "Re: Needed: Plotting package that does... In chris@zeus.alta-oh.com (Chris Murphy) writes: >In article , full_gl@pts.mot.com (Glen Fullmer) writes: >|> Looking for a graphics/CAD/or-whatever package on a X-Unix box that will >|> take a file with records like: >Hi, > See Roger Grywalski's response to : >Re: Help on network visualization >in comp.graphics.visualization. Could someone please post Roger Grywalski's response? Or point me to where I could find it? Thanks a lot, S. Raj Chaudhury | Dept. of Physics | raj@phys.ksu.edu Kansas State University | Manhattan, KS 66506 | -- S. Raj Chaudhury | Dept. of Physics | raj@phys.ksu.edu Kansas State University | Manhattan, KS 66506 | ",1 "Re: Internet Discussion List In article <1qc5f0$3ad@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> bparker@uafhp..uark.edu (Brian Parker) writes: > Hello world of Motorcyles lovers/soon-to-be-lovers! >I have started a discussion list on the internet for people interested in >talking Bikes! We discuss anything and everything. If you are interested in >joining, drop me a line. Since it really isn't a 'list', what we do is if you >have a post, you send it to me and I distribute it to everyone. C'mon...join >and enjoy! On second thought, maybe he didn't invent wreck.moto - he's trying a round about way to figure out the DoD theme song. One FAQ, coming right up! Charlie Smith, DoD #0709, doh #0000000004, 1KSPT=22.85 o--------------------------------------------------------------o There's nothing quite like the pitter-patter of little feet, followed by the words ""Daddy! Why am I locked outside?"" o--------------------------------------------------------------o ",8 "Theists And Objectivity Can a theist be truly objective? Can he be impartial when questioning the truth of his scriptures, or will he assume the superstition of his parents when questioning? I've often found it to be the case that the theist will stick to some kind of superstition when wondering about God and his scriptures. I've seen it in the Christian, the Jew, the Muslim, and the other theists alike. All assume that their mothers and fathers were right in the aspect that a god exists, and with that belief search for their god. Occasionally, the theist may switch religions or aspects of the same religion, but overall the majority keep to the belief that some ""Creator"" was behind the universe's existence. I've known Muslims who were once Christians and vice versa, I've known Christians who were once Jewish and vice versa, and I've even known Christians who become Hindu. Yet, throughout their transition from one faith to another, they've kept this belief in some form of higher ""being."" Why? It usually all has to do with how the child is brought up. From the time he is born, the theist is brought up with the notion of the ""truth"" of some kind of scripture-- the Bible, the Torah, the Qur'an, & etc. He is told of this wondrous God who wrote (or inspired) the scripture, of the prophets talked about in the scripture, of the miracles performed, & etc. He is also told that to question this (as children are apt to do) is a sin, a crime against God, and to lose belief in the scrip- ture's truth is to damn one's soul to Hell. Thus, by the time he is able to read the scripture for himself, the belief in its ""truth"" is so ingrained in his mind it all seems a matter of course. But it doesn't stop there. Once the child is able to read for himself, there is an endeavor to inculcate the child the ""right"" readings of scripture, to concentrate more on the pleasant readings, to gloss over the worse ones, and to explain away the unexplainable with ""mystery."" Circular arguments, ""self-evdent"" facts and ""truths,"" unreasoning belief, and fear of hell is the meat of religion the child must eat of every day. To doubt, of course, means wrath of some sort, and the child must learn to put away his brain when the matter concerns God. All of this has some considerable effect on the child, so that when he becomes an adult, the superstitions he's been taught are nearly impossible to remove. All of this leads me to ask whether the theist can truly be objective when questioning God, Hell, Heaven, the angels, souls, and all of the rest. Can he, for a moment, put aside this notion that God *does* exist and look at everything from a unbiased point of view? Obviously, most theists can somewhat, especially when presented with ""mythical gods"" (Homeric, Roman, Egyptian, & etc.). But can they put aside the assumption of God's existence and question it impartially? Stephen _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz... -- ",19 "mail Hello networld, I'm looking for an X mailreader. Is there a Xelm? Andreas -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Andreas Dunker andreas@appel012.hydromech.uni-hannover.de We all live in a yellow subroutine andreas@veeble.han.de The Beatles ",5 "Regular season 93/94 pool 1993-1994 NHL Hockey Pool By Denis Papp and Chris Stoochnoff Rules: - Pick 17 players (3 LW, 3 C, 3 RW, 3 LD, 3 RD, 2 Goalies) You may pick ANY 17 players from any team. - Points for players are as follows: - 1 point per goal - 1 point per assist - 1 point per 10 PIM - Points for goalies are as follows: - 2 points per win - 1 point per tie - 1 point per assist - 1 point per 5 PIM - 2 points per shutout - 100 points per goal Entries: -Entries can be sent (by mail or ascii text file) to Chris Stoochnoff or Denis Papp on Hard Wired BBS (434-7996). -Due date for entries is the first day of regular season play. After that, no more entries will be accepted (unless it is just slightly late. If that is the case, there will be a small penalty applied to the team). -internet users can send email to dpapp@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca Prizes: Prizes have not yet been considered. They could range from nothing to free time on Hard Wired BBS or even something else (if you have any suggestions... please feel free to put your two cents worth in). One idea is to get whoever is willing to to submit an equal amount of money, and that will go to be the prize money. The prize money will go to the top team who has submitted to the prize pool. A list of all people who submit money will be posted, as well as those who didnt - if it is done this way. Cost: The cost... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! There is absolutely no fee for this pool. Note: -If you have any questions, please feel free to send them to Denis Papp or myself (Chris Stoochnoff). The players positions (ie. Brett Hull is Right Wing) will be decided by the year book I will be using. So, if you do not know a certain players position, or you are not completely sure what position he plays, then ask me and I'll tell you. -And for a great time, call the Hard Wired BBS at (403)-434-7996 (this will be the location where the pool standings will be displayed). Internet Users: -To contact Denis Papp, just email (dpapp@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca). Standings will be distributed by email as well. ",10 "Making up odd resistor values required by filters When constructing active filters, odd values of resistor are often required (i.e. something like a 3.14 K Ohm resistor).(It seems best to choose common capacitor values and cope with the strange resistances then demanded). Is there a PD program out there that will work out how best to make up such a resistance, given fixed resistors of the standard 12 values per decade?.(1, 1.2,1.5,1.8,2.2,3.3 etc ). It is a common enough problem, yet I cant recall seing a program that tells that Rx+Ry//Rz gives Rq, starting with q and finding prefered values x,y and z. Cheers Ian H ",12 "Stuff for sale- music CDs ($9 ea inc shipping) --- Jesus Jones, DOUBT Residents, HEAVEN? REM, DOCUMENT Nymphs, SAD AND DAMNED single Tapes ----- Robert Plant, all solo stuff Led Zeppelin IV Tshirts ------- Robert Plant, Manic Nirvana tour Led Zeppelin, Symbols/Swansong black Bob Dylan, 1990 tour tie-dye All offers accepted. Mail to jac2y@virginia.edu ",6 "Jumper settings for Ungermann-Bass PCNIC Ethernet card Does anybody have a data-sheet handly for the above-mentioned card? I bought one, sans manual at a local surplus shop, and want to try it out with the Crywyr packet driver suite. The IRQ and interface-select jumpers are pretty straightforward, but I don't grok the settings of W10-W18 (also labelled A15 through A18). Could somebody tell me which settings of these four jumpers correspond to what I/O addresses? Is there anything else about this card I should know, before I plug&play? -- Dave Platt VOICE: (415) 813-8917 Domain: dplatt@ntg.com UUCP: ...netcomsv!ntg!dplatt USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2470 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303 ",3 "Re: Good for hockey/Bad for hockey In article <91548@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes: >>>> > >I prefer the Miami Colons myself. Headline: FLAMES BLOW OUT COLONS, 9-1 >>>> > Would Kevin Dineen play for the Miami Colons??? >>>> As a Flyers fan, I resent you making Kevin Dineen the butt of your >>>> jokes:-)! >>> Aw, just take a moment to digest it and I'm sure you'll see the humour... >>If anybody is having problems following the thread be sure to ask the >>origonal poster to rectify your misunderstanding. > > What about his rectum? It's bad jokes like that which draws crohns, I mean groans from the crowd... Don't bother looking it up in the appendix, it's useless anyway. Just one more word of advice... If you go to a Miami game, stay away from any foods made with ""natural casings"" :) -- __-----__ _______________________ / _______ \ / \ |_// \/ \ \_| / Hockey! Hockey! Hockey! \ /__|O||O|__U\ \ Joy! Joy! Joy! / |/_ \_/\_/ _U | \_______________________/ | | (____) | || // Stimpson J Kat \/\___/\__/ // // stimpy@dev-null.phys.psu.edu (_/ _5_ ~~~| // nagy@physci.psu.edu | \*/ |\/ nagy@cs.psu.edu \___v_____/_/ nagy@crayola.cs.psu.edu \____/---// nagy@love-shack.com __|| _----- and oh yeah... (____(____) GGN100@psuvm.[psu.edu,bitnet] ~~~~ ~~~~ ",10 "Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Rights Violations in Azerbaijan #007 Accounts of Anti-Armenian Human Rights Violations in Azerbaijan #007 Prelude to Current Events in Nagorno-Karabakh +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | They grab Papa, carry him into one room, and Mamma and me into another. | | They put Mamma on the bed and start undressing her, beating her legs. | | They start tearing my clothes, right there, in front of Mamma. I don't | | remember where they went, what they did, or how much time passed. I had | | the feeling that they beat me on the head, on my body, and tore my | | clothes, all at the same time, I don't even know what I said. The | | atrocities started. I was savagely raped in that room. They argued among | | themselves who would go first. | | | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ DEPOSITION OF KARINE (KARINA) GRIGOREVNA M. [1] Born 1964 Secretary-Typist Azsantekmontazh Trust Sumgait Construction and Installation Administration Secretary of the SMU Komsomol Organization Resident at Building 17/33B, Apartment 15 Microdistrict No. 3 Sumgait [Azerbaijan] On the 27th my sister Marina and I went to the movies the seven o'clock show, at the theater that is across from the City Party Committee, about 50 yards away. The SK theater. They were showing an Argentinian film, ""The Abyss."" Before the film we noticed about 60 to 70 people standing near the podium at the City Party Committee, but they were silent, there's no conversation whatsoever, and we couldn't figure out what was going on. That is, we knew it was about Karabagh, but what it was exactly, what they were talking about, if someone gave a speech or not, we didn't know. We bought our tickets. There were 30 or 40 people in the theater. This was a very small number for that large movie theater. The film started. About 30 minutes later they stopped the film. A crowd burst in. About 60 people. They came up onto the stage. Well mostly they were young people, from 16 to 23 years old. They demanded that an Armenian woman come up onto the stage. They used foul language and said that they were going to show what Azerbaijanis were capable of, what they could do to Armenian girls. I thought that's what they meant because they had demanded a girl specifically. Marina and I were sitting together. I told her to move over, there were some Russian girls sitting nearby. So that if someone recognized me or if something happened, they would take me, and not Marina. It got quiet, 2 or 3 girls jumped up to run out, but the door was closed--it's only opened at the end of the show--and they returned to their seats. Everyone in the theater was looking at one another, Russians, Azerbaijanis, people of various nationalities. But no one reacted at all, no one in the auditorium made a sound. They were silent, looking at one another, and gradually started to leave. Some guy, a really fat one, says, ""OK, we've scared them enough, let's leave."" They leave slowly, pompously. It seemed to me that those people were not themselves. Either they had smoked a bunch of ""anasha"", or had taken something else, because they all looked beastly, like they were ready to tear anyone apart. Then it was all over, as though nothing had happened at all. The film started up again, it was one of those cheerful films which should have only brought pleasure, made you happy to be alive. We could barely sit to the end. So it had started at seven it was over by nine, and it was dark . . . Marina and I were walking home, Lenin Street, that's the center of town. Lenin Street was packed, just packed with young people. They were shouting, something about Karabagh and something about Armenians. We weren't especially listening, because the way we were feeling we didn't know if we were going to make it home or not, and just what had happened anyway? Public transportation wasn't running. Incidentally, when we came out of the theater we saw police, policemen standing there. The director of the movie theater was looking at the doors, because when they were leaving they had broken the glass, the doors there are basically all glass. Everything was broken. He stood there grief- stricken, but looking as though nothing really big had happened, like some naughty boys had just broken them quite by accident, with a slingshot. Well, since he looked more or less calm I decided that, nothing all that super serious had happened. We went out very slowly; we wanted to catch a bus, we live literally one stop away. We didn't want to go on foot, not because it was dark, but because something might happen. We flagged down a cab, but the driver didn't want to take us. We told him we live near the bus station, and he said he'd take us to the bus station and not a yard farther. I said, well, OK . . . So we got into the cab and managed to get there. Something incredible was happening at the bus station. There was a traffic jam. Public transportation was at a standstill and everyone was shouting ""Ka-ra-bagh,"" they're not going to give up Karabagh. I go home and tell my family what's going on, and there's immediate panic in the house. Mamma says, what should we do? Like the end had come, they were going to come, kill us, that's it . . . Somehow we managed to cheer ourselves up: Nothing that bad could happen. Where are we living anyway, just what kind of social order do we have? Somehow we manage to calm Mamma down. And we went to bed. But no one could sleep. Everyone made as though nothing had happened. That was on Saturday. In short, the day went by. We didn't go anywhere and didn't call our relatives. No one did anything. Because . . . life goes on. That day I realized something was approaching, but what exactly, I couldn't guess. On the 28th everything was like it was supposed to be, we lived like we always had. There were five of us at home: Mamma, Papa and us, three sisters: Lyuda, Marina, and I. My sister Lyuda was in Yerevan at the time. We sat at home and no one went out. Later we learned that a demonstration had started that morning. It all started . . . They were smashing up stores. We were sitting at home and didn't know anything about it. Then a girlfriend of mine, Lyuda Zimogliad, came by at around three o'clock I think. We worked together, we did our apprenticeships together, she's a Russian girl. She said that something awful was happening in town. I asked, ""Don't they want Armenians? Well what are they after, if they're already in that state?"" She says, no, nothing like that, it's just a demonstration, but it's awful to watch it. Somehow, it feels like a war has broken out. Public transportation has been stopped . . . The cabs, the buses, well it's just a nightmare. Then Papa decides to go to the drugstore, my mother was having allergy problems at the time . . . He left the house and our neighbor, Aunt Vera, asked him, ""Where are you going? Stop! There are such terrible things going on in the courtyard; aren't you afraid to go out?"" Papa didn't know what she was talking about. She simply pushed him back into the entryway. He came home and told Mamma. Mamma said, ""Well, if Aunt Vera was talking like that it means that something is really going on."" But we didn't go see her, she's a Russian, she lives across from us. I had to see my friend out. Around five o'clock I tell Lyuda, ""Ok, look, it's time for you to go, it's late already, I'll see you out."" Mamma says, ""You don't need to go, it's too late already, you can see what the situation in town is."" So we decided to stay home. Dinner was ready. Mamma says, ""Let her eat with us, then she can go."" We sat down at the table. But no one was hungry, no one was in the mood, we just put everything out on the table to calm ourselves down, and make it appear that we're eating. We turned on the television, and the show ""In Fairy-Tale Land"" was coming on. We cleared the table. We hear some noise out in the courtyard. I go out on the balcony, but I can't see what's going on, because the noise is coming from the direction of the bus station, and there is a 9-story building in the way. There is mob of people . . . I can't figure out what's happening. They're shouting something, looking somewhere, I can't make out what is going on. I go down to a neighbor, she's an Azerbaijani; we've been friends of her family for about 25 years. I go down to look from their place. I see people shouting, looking at the 5-and 9-story buildings near the bus station. Just then soldiers set upon them, about 20 people, with clubs. The mob runs off in different directions. I even see several people from our building. They are looking and laughing . . . I decide that means it's not all that bad if they are laughing: it means they're not killing anyone. But now the crowd suddenly dashes toward the soldiers. One of the soldiers cannot manage to get away, they start stomping on him with their feet, everyone's kicking him . . . I become ill and go home, and explain in general terms that horrible things are going on out there . . . can't speak . . . Well, they've probably killed that soldier, the way that crowd is . . . If each of them kicked him just once . . . They took his club away from him and started to beat him with it. But it was far away and I couldn't see if he got up and left or not. I become terrified and go home and say, ""Lyuda, don't go anywhere, stay at our place, because if you go out they could kill you or . . . "" Then the crowd runs over closer toward our building and stands at the 12-story building and starts shouting something. We go out onto the balcony. All of our neighbors are also out on theirs, too. Everyone is standing, staring. The mob is shouting and about 5 minutes later comes running toward our building. As it turns out, at the 12-story building the Azerbaijani neighbors went down and kept them from coming in. There's only one entryway there, they could stop them. They all run up to our building. Mamma immediately starts closing the windows, afraid that they might throw stones. They have stones and they break the windows, all of them. There are very many people. We have a large courtyard, and it's packed with people. They spill up to the first floor so they don't crush each other. They crawl up on trees, posts, and garages. It's just a huge cloud of people. They break and burn the motorcycle of the Armenian Sergey Sargisian, from our building. We close the windows and immediately hear tramping in our entryway. They come up to our fifth floor with a tremendous din and roar. It's incomprehensible. Mamma told me later that they were shouting Father's name, ""Grisha, open the door, we've come to kill you!,"" or something like that. I don't remember that, I was spaced out, kind of. Mamma says, ""Into the bedroom, quickly!"" In the bedroom we have two tall beds, part of our dowry; Mamma says, ""Hide there, they probably won't come in there, they'll ask something, say something, and leave."" She says, ""We'll tell them that we live alone here."" I can't imagine that my parents will stand out in the hall alone talking with some sort of beasts . . . I go to them and say that I'll stand together with them, I'll talk with them if they come, maybe I can find a common language with them, all the more so if they know me: I speak Azerbaijani more or less, and I can find out what they want. I told Marina and Lyuda to hide under the bed, and my sister Lyuda, I can't remember if I told her anything or not. Then . . . they open the door: it's like they blew on it and it broke and fell right into the hall. The crows bursts in and starts to shout: Get out of here, leave, vacate the apartment and go back to your Armenia; things like that. I tell them, ""What has happened, speak calmly. One of you, tell me, calmly, what has happened."" In Azerbaijani, they say, ""Get out of the apartment, leave."" I say, ""OK. Go downstairs. We'll gather everything we need and leave the apartment."" I realize that it is senseless to discuss any sort of rights with them, these are animals. They must be stopped. The ones standing in the doorway, the young guys, say, ""There are old people and one girl with them. Too bad!"" They take two or three steps back. It seems as though I have pacified them with our exchange. Then someone in the courtyard shouts, commanding them: ""Don't you understand what you are saying? Kill them?"" And that was it! That was all it took. They grab Papa, carry him into one room, and Mamma and me into another. They put Mamma on the bed and start undressing her, beating her legs. They start tearing my clothes, right there, in front of Mamma. I don't remember where they went, what they did, or how much time passed. I had the feeling that they beat me on the head, on my body, and tore my clothes, all at the same time, I don't even know what I said. The atrocities started. I was savagely raped in that room. They argued among themselves who would go first. Later, I remember, I came to. I don't know if I'm dead or alive. Someone comes in, someone tall, I think, clean-shaven, in an Eskimo dogskin coat, balding. He looks around at what's happening. At that instant everything stops. It seems to me that he is either their commander or . . . that somehow everything depends on him. He looks and says, ""Well, we're done here."" They are beating Mamma on the head. They break up the chairs and beat her with the chair legs . . . She loses consciousness, and they decide that she's dead. Papa . . . was out cold. They want to throw Lyuda off the balcony, but they can't get the window open. Apparently the window frames are stuck after the rain and the windows can't be opened. They leave her next to the window. She was thinking about being thrown out the window and passed out. She's not a real strong person anyway . . . He looks at me and sees that I'm saying something, that I'm still twitching. Well, I start saying the opposite of what I should be, which is humbling myself and pleading. I start shouting, cursing . . . they don't get any entreaty out of me. I already know that I'm dead, why would I humble myself before anyone? And he says that if that's what I think, since my tongue is so long . . . maybe he thinks that I still look quite appealing . . . In short, he commands that I be taken outside. I no longer saw or remembered what was happening to Marina and Lyuda, I don't know if they are alive or not. They take me outside. They are dragging me by my arms, by my legs. They are hitting me against the wall, the railings, something metal . . . While they are carrying me someone is biting me, someone else is pinching me . . .I don't even know. I think, my God, when will death come? If only it were sooner . . . Then . . . they carry me out, throw me near the entryway . . . and start kicking me. I lose consciousness . . . What happened after that, how many people there were, I don't remember. I come to after a while, I don't remember how long. A neighbor is bringing me clothing. I'm entirely covered with blood, she puts a dress on me. I remember that I said the same words over and over again: ""Mamma, what happened, Mamma, what have they done to us, where are we, whose house are we at?"" I can't make sense out of anything. There is a guy standing over me, I sort of know him, he served in Afghanistan, his name is Igor, he brought me indoors. When they all went to the third entryway and killed a person there, Igor gathered his courage, took me into his arms, and brought me to the neighbors', even though he's small-minded, he put himself at risk. Igor Agayev is Azerbaijani; he served in Afghanistan. There are three brothers. The older brother also served there, I think; now he's stationed here, on the border, in Armenia. Igor brought me to the neighbors', and then helped me come to my senses, saying, ""Karina, I know you, calm down, I'm not one of them."" How do I know who's who and what's what? I come to, and they clean me up. I was covered in blood. Then Papa . . . I saw Papa, I saw Mamma. And Marina, too . . . Igor was there when they dragged Marina and Lyuda out from under the bed . . . Marina . . . Lyuda said that she was Russian, they said, we'll let you go, we aren't touching the Russians, go. And while they are dragging Marina out she decides she's going to tell them she's Azerbaijani. Igor immediately grabs Marina's and Lyuda's hands, because he knows Marina, and knows that she is Armenian and is our sister, and takes her to the second floor to a neighbor's and starts pounding on the door so she will open up. She opens the door and Igor pushes them in there. So they survived. My sister Lyuda lost consciousness after the bandits started stealing things. While they were going downstairs, taking things downstairs, then coming back up again, Lyuda seized the opportunity and crawled under the bed and stayed there. Then, when she was herself again, she found a torn night shirt and put it on, and some sort of robe and went to a neighbor's on the fourth floor, the one whose apartment I had watched the crowd from, the friend of ours, and knocked on the door. The neighbor opened and said, ""I'm not going to let you in the apartment because I'm afraid of them. But I'll give you some stockings and we'll leave the building."" Lyuda says, ""I'll stay at your place because of what's going on, they keep going up and down the stairs."" It was just for a moment, just a moment in life, but the neighbor wouldn't consent. Lyuda came back to our place and lay under the bed . . . I came to. Mother was there. I can't remember my supervisor's telephone number, but something had to be done. Somehow I remembered and called, and he came to get us. He didn't have any idea what was going on. He thought we were simply afraid, he didn't know that they were killing us and that we had passed between life and death. He came and got us and took us to the police precinct. There they looked us over. I was having trouble walking, my lungs hurt badly, it was hard to breathe . . . My supervisor's name is Urshan Feyruzovich Mamedov. He's the head of our administration. They took us there. When we were leaving, I saw a great number of buses full of soldiers at the entrance to town. The buses were ordinary passenger buses. There were very many soldiers. We left around eleven, right after eleven. If these people could stop what was happening they could save a great many lives . . . Because the crowd was moving on, toward the school, and what was going on there . . . I think everyone know not only in Sumgait, not only in Yerevan. Because there they murdered them all one after the next, without stopping. After us. I think 14 people died in Microdistrict No. 3, and 10 to 12 of them were from Buildings 4, 5, and 6. In our building one person died, and one old woman died from Building 16, that's the building in front of ours. There young Azerbaijani men stopped the mob and wouldn't let it into their building. Incidentally, when we were at the neighbors', Marina called our relatives to warn them, so they would all know what was happening. I called a aunt in Microdistrict No. 5. They have three neighbors who are Armenians. I said, ""Run quickly, I can't explain what's going on; hide, do what you can, just stay alive. Hide at Azerbaijanis', ones who won't give you away."" At that moment three people came in, policemen. I think they were Azerbaijanis. I was in such awful condition, my face was completely distorted my lips were puffed up, there was blood, my eye was swollen, no one thought I would ever see anything out of that eye again . . . my forehead was badly cut, and one-half of my face was pushed out forward. No one would have thought that I would survive, get my normal appearance back, and be able to grasp anything at all. I started to scream at those people, why did you come, who sent you here, no one wants you here, haven't you killed people people yet, what are you doing here? One of the soldiers said, ""Don't scream at us. We're Muslims, but we're not from the Sumgait police. They called in from Daghestan."" So at that point the Daghestan police were there. When we got to the police precinct there were an awful lot of police there, there were soldiers, police with dogs, ambulances, firemen . . . I don't know, maybe they were waiting for people to bring them the goners and the seriously injured to treat them there in the police precinct. I don't know what they were there for. There were also doctors from Baku there. They examined Lyuda and me and said, ""These women need to go to the Maternity Home, but we don't know what to do with the rest."" So they took us, and I lost contact with my parents, my boss, everyone. My boss said, ""Don't worry, I'll find you, no matter where you are, no matter what happens."" We went to the hospital. There we were examined by a department head from the Sumgait Maternity Home, Pashayeva, I think her name was. She examined us. The ambulance was from Baku; I figured out that the Sumgait ambulances hadn't done anything, they didn't respond to any calls. People called and neither the police nor the ambulances showed any sign of life. That doctor looked me over and I could tell from her behavior that something very good had happened, for she became quite glad. I even thought to myself, ""God, can it be that nothing all that bad is wrong?"" She looks me over and says, ""Now why are you suffering so? You don't know what your people have been doing, your people did even worse things."" And I think, great, I have to deal with her . . . And I felt so bad, I thought, why don't I just die so as not to have to hear more stuff like this from people like her? Here I am in this condition and being told about something that our people did. I just didn't have the energy to say, ""How could our people possibly be smart enough to think of something that yours haven't already done?"" I stayed there. Then they brought in another woman, Ira B., she was married, and she was raped in her own apartment, too. There were three of us, Ira, Lyuda, and 1. The next morning they took Lyuda and Ira away. They didn't do anything to help us. This was in the old Maternity Home, in the combined block. They didn't do anything more than examine me, that was it. I didn't want any shots or tranquilizer, nothing. What shots could have calmed me down? I didn't even want to look at them. I lay in the ward. Either it just worked out that way or they did it on pur- pose, but I was alone. I was alone even though the wards were packed. That same evening a woman came by and asked me what was wrong with me, that my face was disfigured. She asked what had happened to me, and I said, ""Better to ask your brother what happened, there's no point in asking me, your brother can better explain what happened."" She fell into a faint. All the doctors threw themselves at her, and the doctor categorically forbade anyone to come into my ward. Then people from work came to see me, my boss, his daughter; they brought me clothing, because I was literally naked. The only thing I had on was a dress, but the woman who gave it to me was very short, and the dress was way up above my knees, and the woman orderly said, ""I can't believe you put on such a short dress, who are you showing off your legs to here?"" I went back to my ward thinking, just one more thing from something. People from work came and brought me something in a sack, apples, I think, three or four pounds, but I couldn't take them. I had become so weak that it was just embarrassing. I said that I couldn't take the apples, and really didn't have any appetite. No one had to bring me anything. Some woman took the sack . . . And, oh yes! . . . Then I heard that the head doctor tell a nurse that my medical history should be hidden or torn up completely so that no one would know that I was an Armenian, maybe they wouldn't figure it out from looking at me. So they must have been thinking that there would be some kind of attack, that something else would happen. That it would be worse. Or, perhaps, someone was outside on the street, I don't know. In any case, I didn't sleep a wink that night. The next morning they picked me up, a whole police detail, put me in a bus, and off we went. I didn't even know where they were taking me. They took me to the club where the troops were, the very one I was in that ill-fated evening. I got off the bus. Near the City Party Committee there were a great many troops, tanks, armored personnel carriers; the whole scene was terrible. I saw a few people I knew there, and that calmed me a little. I had already thought that I was the only one left. So there were five or six of us left in Sumgait after that night. I still didn't know what happened to my parents, they didn't come to see me in the hospital, and my boss told me that everything was fine. I didn't know whether to believe him or not. Maybe he was just trying to calm me down, maybe something happened on the way. Then I went to the club and saw a lot of people I knew. They all knew one another, they were all kissing each other and asking, ""What happened, what went on?"" Two days later they came to see me from work. They were there all the time. Each day they came, showed interest, and were constantly bringing me money. They did everything they could. Of course I'm most thankful to my boss, the only one of my colleagues who didn't lose his presence of mind and who didn't change his opinions, neither before, nor after, nor in the heat of the moment, no matter what happened. He constantly took an interest. A sincere interest, from the heart . . . Then, about two days later, the secretary of the Party Committee came, not from our Party organization, but from the First Trust, which ours is part of, Comrade Kerimov, a very important figure in our town. He made arrangements with the emergency medical personnel to take me away, because if I sat down by myself I couldn't get up or lie down again. There was something wrong with my lungs, it was hard to breathe. They examined me there several times, there I lay were several doctors, they all thought that . . . that it must just be from all the blows, I don't know. They didn't diagnose anything in particular. When I was in the Maternity Home I even asked . . . I made it a point of insisting that they take me to the trauma section because I felt so awful. There was no way something inside wasn't broken, my ribs . . . Well they took me there and took x-rays and said that everything was fine. There were emergency medical workers on duty in the club. The mother of one of Marina's friends was there. She was the head doctor at the Sumgait Children's Clinic. They had every kind of antifever agent in the world, which was exactly what I needed at that moment, I thought. I said that I was having great difficulty breathing, I couldn't seem to get enough air, something was wrong with me. They put tight bandages around my chest and waist. Later I overheard some people saying that I had been cut all over. I think they just saw me being all bandaged up and decided that my breasts and face had been cut . . . But I wasn't cut. They took us to the Khimik boarding house. We lived there a long time. Soon appeared representatives . . . They were agitating. At first people would not talk to them, and drove them off. One of the Armenian women shouted, ""We demand that Seidov come!"" The response was, ""It's Seidov who sent us."" Seidov is the Chairman of the Azerbaijani Council of Ministers. The woman said, ""We'll only see Seidov's daughter, have her come here, we'll do the same things to her that they did to our daughters, and then we'll deal with you agitators."" And so on. More of them said, ""Have Seidov himself come."" This went on day in, day out. The agitators kept coming and coming, this drove us out of our wits. Then people gradually started departing for Yerevan because they realized it was senseless to stay. Everything got on our nerves: The smell, the small children. There were children at the SK club, children who had literally just come out of the Maternity Home. What were they doing in a club that didn't even have running water all the time? At first we had to pay to eat there. They even overcharged us, as it turned out. On the second day someone told us that they would bring us food for free. The children were ill. Everything stank there. Well imagine about 3,000 people in a small movie theater with seating for no more than 500. You couldn't sit or lie down, it was impossible to even move. The stench was awful. Even the smallest infants took ill overnight there. I heard that they were arriving seriously ill in Yerevan, the infants. They have to be washed, they have to be bathed, not to mention that we, the adults, were ill and needed care. People were fainting right and left. I just don't know, everyone was crying, everyone . . . Only the young people, the men, somehow managed to keep it together. But the women were in a constant state of panic. It seemed to everyone that they would come any minute and kill and stab. It seemed clear that we had been gathered together purposely, like during the war, so that they could burn the movie theater and there wouldn't be a single Armenian left. Then people went up to the attic. I didn't see them, I only heard them, because I was lying down and couldn't get up. I lay right on the stage, we had some room there. Apparently they caught two people with either oil or gas. I think they wanted to burn the theater. Maybe someone saw them, I didn't. I was in no condition to open my eyes. Everyone was suspicious of everyone else. They would ask, ""Aren't you an Azerbaijani? I think I saw you somewhere, I think you're an Azerbaijani."" They led out all the men and started letting them back in by checking their passports, relatives might be covering for each other. Half of the people did not have any documents. There were people who had run out of their homes in nothing but a pair of pants and slippers, or wearing just a shirt, not like they should have, with their IDs. So on the 28th, on Sunday, I think, the police did nothing to help us. On Monday everything resumed where it had left off on Block 41A. They didn't spare a soul there: not children, not pregnant women, nobody. They killed, they burned, they hacked with axes, just everything possible. They murdered the Melkumian family whom I knew, my mother worked with them. Their daughter- in-law went to school with my older sister. They were brutally murdered. Only the two daughters-in-law survived. By a miracle one was able to save herself, she ran away, the neighbors wouldn't take her in, so she ran about the building until she found refuge. She was pregnant and had two small children. This all continued on Monday in Block 41A, on the 29th, when the troops were already in the city. They murdered people, they overturned automobiles, and they burned entire families. They say they didn't even know for sure if the people were Armenians or not. I heard that the Lezgins suffered, too. I'm not sure myself, I didn't see any Lezgins who had been injured. They burned cars so it's very difficult now to say exactly who died and who didn't. It was very difficult to identify the corpses, or rather, what remained of the corpses after they were doused in gasoline and burned . . . it's all very hard to imagine, of course I heard that many people disappeared without a trace, from the BTZ plant two people, including a woman who worked the night shift, Aunt Razmella, who also lived in Microdistrict 3. They were stopping buses between Baku and Sumgait. In the evening people who had been visiting Baku were returning to Sumgait, and people from Baku were going home from Sumgait, and there were students, too. They were simply savagely murdered. They were stopping the buses, the drivers immediately did what they were told because there was just no other way to deal with that hoard of brutally minded people. They stopped the buses, dragged the Armenians out and killed them on the spot. I didn't see it myself, but I heard that they put them all in a pile so as to burn them. Later it was hard to discern from the corpses, well you can't call them corpses, you had to figure out from the ashes who it was. l heard that two fellows saved two women, one a student, Ira G., if I'm not mistaken. She was in the hospital a long time after that, and she still can't figure out who saved her. She was also brutally raped and beaten and thrown onto a pile of corpses. The fellow pulled her out of that whole pile of corpses, put his coat on her, took her into his arms, and carried her to the city. I still can't imagine how he managed to do that. I heard that from Engels Grigorian. He knows her, apparently. Well a lot of people went to that hospital anyway. She was in the hospital and singing a song in Armenian, and they wrote the words down, and, I think he still has that piece of paper, because he says that a lot of people now have that song, the one she sang in the hospital where she lay in such bad shape. They couldn't find the guy who saved her. He left her in someone's apartment and called the ambulance, she was in such awful shape that, probably, like me, she couldn't remember anyone's face. I think that I knew one of the people who broke into our house, maybe I had talked with him once. But I received so many blows everything was just knocked out of my head. I can't remember to this day who he was. Then, it seems, I saw the Secretary of the Directorate's Party organization, where Marina works. She goes to school and works, she goes to night school at AZI, and works by day at the Khimzashchita Construction and Installation Administration. I'm the Secretary of the Komsomol organization at our administration and often met with the secretaries of Party and Komsomol organizations. We had joint meetings. I know them all, I've even talked with them, and he, I know, is from Armenia. An Azerbaijani, but from Armenia. It became obvious that many of those people were Azerbaijanis born in Armenia. They took me to various police stations, to the police precinct, and to the Procuracy, because the USSR Procuracy got involved in the case, and I iden- tified the photographs of people who I could more or less recognize. They showed me the people who were in our apartment, they're working on our case, but I can't even recognize them, although it was proved that they were the ones, they're processing it somehow. They tell me that they know that someone held me by the arm and someone else held me by the leg when they were dragging me. There was someone else in our apartment who did not even touch me, he just stole a blanket and an earring or something like that. All these people, all of them, as much as I've heard about them and seen them, they were all from Kafan. The Secretary of the Party organization is named Najaf, Najaf Rzayev. He was there when everything started. It must have been him because I didn't recognize anyone else in the crowd whom I knew besides him. All the more since I told him, ""Listen, you do something, because you know me."" He turned away and went toward the bedroom, where Marina was. Well you couldn't see Marina anyway. There was such a noisy confusion of people that you couldn't make out anyone. All of it flew right out of my head, and then gradually I became myself again, at the City Party Committee . . . There were military people there. I told them what went on, and they wrote it all down. I told them his name. On March 8 the Secretary of our First Trust Party organization, the one we're part of, came to see us, his name is Najaf Rzayev. I tell Mamma, ""If he's here despite the fact that I gave his name, it means that either his alibi has been confirmed or, probably, that they think I'm crazy, not responsible for my words."" He said, ""What did they do to you, how awful, myself, I hid an Armenian family."" Then after some time goes by he comes back again and says something entirely different: ""I wasn't at home, my family and I went to Baku."" I said, ""Marina, what is he saying? He said something totally different before."" After that I didn't go to see our Procurator, our case is being handled by a procurator from Voronezh, Fedorov by name. Fedorov told me that Rzayev's case had just gotten to him, and there were so names involved. What are they doing with Rzayev? Did he prove his alibi or not? They just think that since I was hit in the head I can't say anything for sure, whether it was him or not. It will be an insult if he was in our apartment and doesn't have to pay for it, but at the same time I'm afraid to say I'm a hundred percent sure that it was he. Because no mat- ter who I name, they tell me, no, you're wrong, he didn't do that, that one wasn't there. All the faces have gotten mixed up in my mind. Who did what exactly I can't say. When they took me outside there was a whole crowd there, but I didn't see it, because I had my eyes closed all the time. It seemed to me that I always got it because of my eyes, people were always hassling me, for some reason it always seemed to me that my eyes are responsible. When they were beating my face I thought they were trying to put my eyes out. So I had my eyes closed, they took me outside and started to beat me. A young guy, 22, held my arms, he works at the BTZ plant. And right nearby, across the road from us, Block 41, is where all this was going on. Right across the road from us. The BTZ dormitory is over there, that's where he lives. Now he's in custody, they even have proved, as far as I know, that it was he who killed Shurik Gambarian, the clarinet player from the third entryway of our building. One person in our building was killed, it was that man. A guy comes by who shared a room with the guy who was holding me. He saw that he was holding me by the arms and that he was beating me, but he didn't come over, he just looked and then went into the dormitory. A while after it was all over, people started making announcements in town saying that investigators had been summoned. That guy went and told them everything. Now they've caught him, everything's been proved. Now, evidently, they've been beating him, I don't know what they're doing with them over there, but he himself said that he was working the night shift at the plant. Some young guy came to the plant and said, ""Everyone who wants to kill Armenians come to the bus station on Saturday at ten."" That was it. He said, the ones who wanted to, went. This was at the BTZ plant, during the night shift, probably, late Friday night. It was at night, they were at the sauna together. And he said, what do you mean, do you understand what you are saying? The others were silent, probably, in their hearts they were thinking, I'm going to go. But they didn't say anything to one another. He said that he thought it important to to go, because he had heard a lot about what had happened in Kafan, that they had killed their Azerbaijani sisters, their mothers, burned villages, and all of that. That guy was also born in Kafan. That is certain. And Marina says that the Secretary of the Party organization is from Armenia, too. from I've participated in the investigation a couple of times. I'm satisfied with them thus far. They summoned us and asked about what happened, and every word I said was recorded. I met some guy there . . . By the way, he was an Armenian. I said that he was in our apartment, but what he did, I don't know. His last name was Grigorian, Eduard Grigorian. He s from Sumgait, from Microdistrict 1. He was sentenced I think, to five years, not his first time. His mother is Russian. I met with him at the KGB in Baku, at the Azerbaijani KGB. They took us there and showed me photographs. There were so many photographs, I think they even photographed those people who were caught at curfew, and I've got them all confused. I say, the face was about like this, the guy in the white coat with the red clasps. But he could take that coat off and burn it somewhere, and it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Well. This guy, Grigorian, I said, he was in our apartment, but he is so light-complected that he looks like a Lezgin. I don't know what he did, I can't remember. Maybe he beat me or raped me. But he was in our apartment. At the KGB he started asking me, pleading with me, there's no need for this, all this stuff, look me in the eyes, you're like a sister to me. I took a look at him and thought, ""My God, Heaven forbid that I should have a brother like you."" But they were satisfied with my responses, because I said everything without great certainty. I was there with Mamma. Then Lyuda came in, but when she came in she got sick immediately. She wanted to kill him, she crawled over the table at him. She recognized him. When she came to, Lyuda was lying on the balcony, the mob threw her there and all of them ran into the bedroom. We had all kinds of boxes with dishes in them, the dowries for all three sisters. They stole everything in the apartment, leaving only small things. At that moment Lyuda came to and started remembering everything. Well, seeing the faces, hearing the voices . . . Two people were saying they could burn the apartment. Another says, why burn the apartment when I've got three kids and no place to live. So this guy was in temporary housing, he didn't have anywhere to live, he was from Sumgait. They were sure that they would get the apartment. Besides, the neighbors were Azerbaijani. Why should they burn the apartment, they might burn Azerbaijanis. That's what they said. How did they know there were Azerbaijanis there, if they just picked a place, thinking that Armenians lived there? We have a list of the residents for our part of the building, our name is in there, but how could they know that Azerbaijanis lived on the other side of the wall from us? So they didn't set fire to our apartment. I don't know, I was in such bad shape that if all of it had come to a halt when I was outside, if someone had asked me what was happening, I would have said that a civil war was going on. Well, maybe not civil . . . but probably civil, because when they were beating me I opened my eyes and saw that all the neighbors were standing on their balconies and watching, like at a free horror film. So a civil war was going on, and only the Armenians were being fought. If it were a world war or something like that, they would have been fighting everyone. But they only fought us. Then I met some women from our building, some Azerbaijanis. They are crying, they tell me, ""Karina, we saw all of it, how could it happen?"" They're asking me! Well I just don't know what to call it if a normal girl can stand there and watch what happened to me. I think that if it were the other way around either I wouldn't have been able to take it, or I would have tried to avert it, like that one Azerbaijani woman did in front of our building. A woman lives there, an awful, dissipated woman, if you can call her a woman, the dissipated life she leads. Two Armenian families live there, in her part of the building. She came out on the balcony and saw what was happening to me and started to scream and curse. She came down to the entryway and said, ""You'll come in this entryway over my dead body."" So not one of them took it in his head to go in that entryway. Some folks were saying that those people were so out of control that they didn't even know what they were doing. I don't think that's true. They knew very well what they were doing if they didn't even lift a hand against that woman. They couldn't have cared less about her, but the fact that she was an Azerbaijani stopped them. They were just beasts, they had smoked so much. When they came to our place they were all chewing something. I noticed: Everyone who came into the apartment was chewing something. I think, my God, maybe I just think that? Maybe I'm losing my mind? But no, they're all chewing something. Maybe it is some kind of drug, it must be, because . . . At first glance they all seemed to be such normal people, young, clean-shaven, looking exactly as if they had come to some sort of celebration. But they were shouting something. They didn't talk, they shouted, as though there were deaf people there. They screamed and screamed: ""Yeah, killing, killing, we're killing the Armenians!"" Only they didn't shout ""kill,"" they shouted ""gurun ermianlary."" Gurun literally means ""kill,"" or ""destroy."" That's how it was! I'll continue. We hid in a captain's apartment, he's an Azerbaijani, his wife is a Tatar. We were sitting in their apartment, their kids were out in the yard. Their kids knew a whole lot. This was in our part of the building, on the third floor. When Mamma came to and couldn't find Lyuda she took Papa's hand, this was while the looters were stealing things, but they didn't pay attention because they were stealing things. Apparently they had already ceased killing and switched to stealing. Mamma found the courage to . . . A boy said to my mother ""Where's the gold?"" Mamma said he must have been 12 to 14 years old. He even looked Russian, he was so fair-skinned. But the Azerbaijanis from Armenia are fair-skinned. I noticed they were all on the fair side. He shouted, they were all smashing things, and he asks Mamma where the gold is. We kept our gold in the wardrobe with our important papers. In a little black bag, we kept everything in there. Mamma doesn't really like to wear gold. She probably never even wore those things from the time they were bought for her. They took everything that was lying on the cheval glass. Mamma thinks that the gold saved us. Because they threw themselves at the gold, and Mamma grabbed Papa, who was trying to breathe. They had closed his mouth, bound his hands, and put a pillow and a chair on his face . . . They had shoved something into his mouth so he would suffocate. Mamma grabbed him and tore all that stuff off . . . He had something in his mouth, he was having trouble breathing, his nose was filled with blood. Mamma grabbed him and started running from the fifth down to the first floor because no one wanted to open their doors to them. Mamma said that by accident, completely by accident that person opened his door, he was sleeping, and said, half-awake, ""What's happened?"" He sees that they are bloody. Mamma said, ""At least go and find out what's happening to my daughters, even if they've burned them or murdered them, at least bring the corpses."" He went looking for us. At that moment Lyuda was under the bed. She says that after they left it seemed that someone was calling her name. When he quietly called her she couldn't get out from under the bed. She wanted to get out and was calling softly. She thought she was shouting, but in fact she was either silent or was only talking to herself, it just seemed to her that she was shouting. When she got out from under the bed everyone was gone. And again . . . She thought that she had lost her mind. I'll never leave here, never! To hell with it! It just seems that way to me, I'll come to eventually. But then, when everything had settled down, stopped, that mall brought Lyuda down, and Igor carried me in from outside. Or first I was brought in, then Lyuda, I don't remember what order it happened in. And Mamma said, ""Listen, they're all running around down there, shouting something or other, and running toward the other building."" It had more or less calmed down where we were. Who's dead, who's alive, we don't know. I tried to call my girlfriend. I had basically come to. Mamma says, ""Listen; let's go upstairs, at least get a mattress or something. We don't know how long we'll be here. Maybe they didn't burn everything."" I don't get it, all women have that feeling, they want to get something from their homes, maybe not everything was taken? I tell Mamma, ""Mamma, what do you need any of that for? To hell with it! We're alive, forget the rest of it, all of it!"" She says, ""No, let's go get at least something. Maybe we'll leave here, spend the night at someone else's."" Mamma went upstairs, and their little boy, their son Alik, was standing on the lookout. lIe was standing there to see if they were coming. They only managed to run up there and grab something one time. He shouts, ""Come back, they're coming!"" They didn't have enough time to get a lot, mattresses from one apartment, a blanket from another . . . Mamma got my knitting . . . Someone managed to grab our old things, the ones we never wore, out of the hall . . . Someone took Father's old coveralls. The neighbor, his wife, Mamma and Papa . . . Marina went with them. I was in no condition to leave. Neither was Lyuda. We just sat. They ran out and we closed the door and just then we hear that the mob is on its way toward our place upstairs, they're dragging something again. They were going toward the other building, maybe over by the school, or . . . There was an unfinished building over there, people said they were going toward the basement or the unfinished building, they could gradually carry everything over there. Then things more or less calmed down. I tried to call my boss. Later there was more noise. We were on the third floor, in a one-bedroom apartment, and a woman lives in the one-bedroom place on the second floor, Asya Dallakian. She's an old woman, retired. She wasn't at home, at that time she was usually in the country, she has a married daughter there, and her grandson is in the army. She is only very rarely in town; she gets her retirement money and the apartment is essentially vacant. They started pounding on her door and broke it down. She had two or three beds in there, something like that, she's a 60-to 70-year-old woman who really does not even live there. Probably she had some pots, a couple of metal bed frames and mattresses, and a television. When her grandson came she bought a television. They started wrecking everything. I started getting sick again. I think, ""My God, what is going on around here? When will this end?"" We turned off the lights and sat. As it turns out the people who weren't afraid, the ones who knew what was going on, knew not to turn off the lights. We didn't know, but they didn't come to where we were all the same. They all knew very well that he was a captain. He went out and closed the door, and we sat in his apartment. His last name was Kasumov. He's an exserviceman, retired, works up at the fire station at some plant or other. He went out and stood at his door. They tell him, ""Comrade Captain, don't worry, we won't harm you, you're one of us."" He went upstairs, and they say, ""Aren't you taking anything from this apartment?"" He says, ""I don't need anything."" And the women who were standing in the yard . . . we have a basement, full of water . . . the women who were standing in the yard saw. Those guys, they left everything they stole on the first floor and ran upstairs again. The women threw everything they had time to into the basement, to save our property. Some things were left: dirty pillows, two or three other things and a rug. A guy came downstairs, really mad, and he says, ""Where's the rug? I just put it right here!"" They tell him, ""Some guy came and took it and went off toward the school."" He ran off in that direction. Oh! I forgot the most important point. When Igor picked me up in his arms, there were women standing there who saw everything that was going on. They just didn't tell me about it for a long time. The wife of that military man, she didn't want to kill my spirit, I was already dead enough. Later she told me, that after they murdered Uncle Shurik in the third entryway one of them, the ringleader, apparently a young man, said, ""Where's the girl who was here?"" And he became furious. The woman tells him, ""She came to . . . "" She didn't know what to say: Think something up? Someone carried her off? Then they would comb the whole house and find me and our whole family. So the woman says, ""She came to and went to the basement."" Now, our basement is full of water. So the whole mob dashes off to the basement to look for me or my corpse. They took flashlights; they were up to their waists in water, water which had been standing there for years, and soot, and fuel oil. They climbed down in there to get me. Then one of them said, ""There's so much water down there, she probably walked and walked and then passed out and died. She met her death in the basement. That's it, we can leave, no problem!"" I didn't know that, and when I was told, I felt worse. Two times worse. A lot worse! So they didn't just want to pound me flat, something more awful was awaiting me . . . After that we of course didn't want to live in Sumgait any longer. We really didn't want to go back to our apartment. When we moved, I went up there and started to quiver and shake all over, because I started remembering it all. Although the neighbors all sobbed, it was all . . . so cheap . . . The people who sat in their apartments and didn't help us at a time like that. I think that they could have helped! I don't think that they were obligated to, but they could have helped us! Because that one woman was able to stop that whole brutal crowd by herself. That means they could have, too. It would have been enough foe one man or women to say, What do you think you're doing?"" That's all! That would have done it. There were 60 apartments in our building. Not one person said it! When I was lying on the ground and all those people were standing on their balconies I didn't hear anyone's voice, no one said what are you doing, leave her alone . . . Mamma even told one of the neighbor women that if it had been an Azerbaijani woman in my place they would have dropped a bomb if it would have killed even one Armenian. They would have stood up for one of their own. True, they say that our neighbor from the fourth entryway, an old/ sick woman tried to stop the pogrom. The Azerbaijanis have a custom: if a woman takes her scarf and throws it on the ground, the men are supposed to stop immediately. The old woman from the fourth entryway did that, but they stomped her scarf into the ground, pushed her off to the side, and said, ""If you want to go on living, you'll disappear into your apartment."" So she left. That trick didn't work on them. Even the neighbors who helped us move told me, OK, fine, calm down, forget that it happened. I said I'd only forget it if I told them right then that it had happened to their daughter--and if that didn't have any effect on them, then I would forget everything, too. Imagine that it happened to your sister. And no one did anything. Anything. April 25, 1988 Yerevan - - - reference - - - [1] _The Sumgait Tragedy; Pogroms against Armenians in Soviet Azerbaijan, Volume I, Eyewitness Accounts_, edited by Samuel Shahmuradian, forward by Yelena Bonner, 1990, published by Aristide D. Caratzas, NY, pages 93-109 -- David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | ""How do we explain Turkish troops on S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | the Armenian border, when we can't P.O. Box 382761 | even explain 1915?"" Cambridge, MA 02238 | Turkish MP, March 1992 ",17 "Re: SCSI and IDE: What's the difference? In article <1993Apr21.124531.13053@ac.dal.ca> tominatr@ac.dal.ca writes: >Stupid question from a new IBM PC user: > >I'm going to be selling my Mac and getting a Gateway 2000. *retching noises* Talk about ""out of the frying pan and into the fire"" :) >Are SCSI drives faster than IDE? I'm pretty sure SCSI is faster. Along with a lot better compatability. Alex jhereg@iastate.edu Up the Universe (no damn sig) ",3 "Replacement for Program M Maw Ying yuan wrote  ................................. ...From: yuan@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Maw Ying Yuan) ...Subject: Replacement for Program Manager and File Manager? ...Message-ID: ...Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 06:44:04 GMT ... ...replacements for Win3.1's Program Manager and File Manager? ...yuan@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu :) ................................. Hi, I've been using Plannet Crafter's ""Plug-in"" for Program Manager. Its listed in most BBS'es as PLUGIN13. Its an add-on which gives some needed features to Progman; such as the ability to better manage your groups, change your cursor and icons on the fly, constant status of RAM and resources, ""Quick-menu"" (a drop-down menu of DOS commands or app launcher), plus some other neat stuff. Used it, liked it, and even reg'd it . If you can't find it anywhere, let me know and I'll zip it up and mail it to you (shareware version, of course ...) Aloha... --- .. .es .. All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here. --- . SLMR 2.1a . ---- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | IDC BBS 510-865-7115 (USR HST 14.4k) 510-814-8097 (USR DS v.32bis) | | Alameda, California - Home of KingMail, KingQWK and QWKMerge | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",2 "Re: thyroidal deficiency In article <1993Apr30.211625.568@adobe.com>, abruno@adobe (Andrea Bruno) writes: > >In article <19930430140738SFB2763@MVS.draper.com> SFB2763@MVS.draper.com >(Eileen Bauer) writes: >> Thyroxin controls energy production which explains sleepiness, coldness, >> and weight gain. There is also water retention (possibly around heart), >> changes in vision, and coarser hair and skin among other things. > >Is there any relation between thyroid deficiency and depression? Perhaps the listlessness caused by thyroid deficiency could mimic depression, or feeling unable to do anything could cause one to get depressed, but I know of no specific effect on the brain caused by the thyroid that would cause depression. Note that weight gain is usually a symptom of both. Simple blood tests would indicate if a thyroid condition is present. I don't know if depression would cause a reduction in thyroid output, but I would tend to doubt it. As far as I know clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, and that chemical imbalance has no direct effect on any other part of the body. A regular everyday depression IMHO should not cause a chemical imbalance in the body at all. The pituitary bases its secretions of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) on the level of circulating Thyroxin (there are two types T3 and T4 - one is used as a reserve and is changed into the other -active- form in the liver). The ratio of T3 & T4 can be affected by a number of other hormones (estrogen, for example). Naturally, changing activity of the body's cells would cause changes in availabilty of free thyroxin, but the liver and a healthy thyroid should be able to balance things out in short order. Good sources for info on the thyroid are the Merk Manual (a physician's reference book ) although reading it is enough to get one depressed :-) and the Encyclopedia Brittanica (should be available in your local library). I hope this has been of some help. -Eileen Bauer ",13 "Re: centi- and milli- pedes msnyder@nmt.edu (Rebecca Snyder) writes: >Does anyone know how posionous centipedes and millipedes are? If someone >was bitten, how soon would medical treatment be needed, and what would >be liable to happen to the person? >(Just for clarification - I have NOT been bitten by one of these, but my >house seems to be infested, and I want to know 'just in case'.) >Rebecca Millipedes, I understand, are vegetarian, and therefore almost certainly will not bite and are not poisonous. Centipedes are carnivorous, and although I don't have any absolute knowledge on this, I would tend to think that you're in no danger from anything but a concerted assault by several million of them. G. ",13 "Re: Manual Shift Bigots In rec.autos you write: >if ayrton senna can drive a racecar with fully automatic transmission, >it can't be half bad.. :-) This McLaren auto-transmission (I still think it's only half auto, but You may be right) has NOTHING to do with Your GM, Chrysler, Volvo, or whatever auto transmission. It's a normal manual transmission gearbox with clutch and all, but there are servo motors, which do the shifting. That means, there is no power loss in the drivetrain (if You take out minimal mechanical friction), and the sami-auto transmissions (Ferrari, Williams, McLaren(?),...) don't tell You, when to shift, either. However, these transmissions share an important disadvantage with Your stock auto-trannie: They are EXPENSIVE. As long as these servo-shifted gearboxes aren't available on 'normal' cars I'm gonna stick with my manual. I just can't see an advantage to make up for two grand I lose in this deal and the loss in mileage and power (except maybe in real heavy traffic). But then I drive mostly on the autobahn and country roads anyway. There's no point in making a religion out of this, I just wanted to point out a few technical facts and MY OWN opinion, so there's no need for a flame war. >eliot Have a safe ride Chris ",7 "Re: (new) reason for Clipper alg'm secrecy In article <1993Apr20.155924.29995@news.clarkson.edu>, tuinstra@signal.ece.clarkson.edu.soe (Dwight Tuinstra) writes: > First, note that the ""experts"" will only look at ""details"", and of just > the algorithm: > > In addition, respected experts from outside the > government will be offered access to the confidential details of > the algorithm to assess its capabilities and publicly report > their findings. > > Why not the chip design? Well, here's the possiblity: in addition to > encryption, the chip pre-processes voice signals to make them easier > to analyze/transcribe electronically. The chip, once widespread, might > effectively be part of a massively parallel computer for ""voice- > grepping"" the US phone network (or the criminal & wrong-thinking patrons > thereof). First of all, the chip doesn't do that. It runs at 16 megabits/second, which is far beyond what you need for voice. It's obviously intended for data as well, and on high-speed lines at that. Second -- what advantage is there to doing the processing in the phone? I don't care how fancy that chip is; it's not as fancy as the roomful of analyzers at Fort Meade running the program they'll have 5 years from now. They can't update every Clipper chip that's out there. Third -- if they did do this preprocessing in the chip, it would probably have a serious effect on recognizability of the voice patterns. If nothing else, that would hurt the acceptability of the product. The V.32bis modems are just barely fast enough to do a good job on properly- massaged voice as is; add any more to the mix, and you're completely out of the ballpark. ",11 "Rockies opening day cast Here is the Colorado Rockies openning day cast: Pitchers -------- Scott Aldred (L) MLB Totals 31 games, 6-14, 5.08 ERA, 0 saves Andy Ashby (R) 18 games, 2-8, 6.72 ERA, 0 saves Willie Blair (R) 67 games, 10-15,4.57 ERA, 0 saves Butch Henry (L) 28 games, 6-9, 4.02 ERA, 0 saves Darren Holmes (R) 95 games, 5-9, 4.10 ERA, 9 saves David Neid (R) 6 games, 3-0, 1.17 ERA, 0 saves Jeff Parrett (R) 341 games, 46-30,3.65 ERA,21 saves Steve Reed (R) 18 games, 1-0, 2.30 ERA, 0 saves Bruce Ruffin (L) 223 games, 43-64,4.31 ERA, 3 saves Bryn Smith (R) 354 games,106-90,3.44 ERA, 6 saves Gary Wayne (L) 147 games, 8-8, 3.44 ERA, 3 saves The rest -------- Joe Girardi (C) 304 games, .262, 3 HR, 70 RBI, 10 SB Danny Sheaffer (C) 32 games, .110, 1 HR, 5 RBI, 0 SB Freddie Benavides (SS) 98 games, .246, 1 HR, 20 RBI, 1 SB Vinny Castilla (SS) 21 games, .238, 0 HR, 1 RBI, 0 SB Andres Galarraga (1B) 942 games, .267,116HR,472 RBI, 59 SB Charlie Hayes (3B) 530 games, .250,48 HR,219 RBI, 13 SB Jim Tatum (3B) 5 games, .125, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 SB Eric Young (2B) 49 games, .258, 1 HR, 11 RBI, 6 SB Dante Bichette (OF) 424 games, .254,38 HR,176 RBI, 40 SB Daryl Boston (OF) 882 games, .250,65 HR,224 RBI, 97 SB Jerald Clark (OF) 339 games, .237,28 HR,126 RBI, 5 SB Alex Cole (OF) 290 games, .283, 0 HR, 49 RBI, 83 SB Gerald Young (OF) 605 games, .246, 3 HR,109 RBI,153 SB Dale Murphy (OF) 15 seasons, .266, 398 HR, 1259 RBI ",9 "U.S. Government and Science and Technolgy Investment In article <1993Apr30.151033.13776@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes: >People who criticize ""big Government"" and its projects rarely seem to >have a consistent view of the role of Government in science and >technology. Basically, the U.S. Government has gotten into the role of >supporting research which private industry finds too expensive or too >long-term. >(Historically, this role for the U.S. Gov't was forced upon it because >of socialism in other countries. In order for U.S. industries to >compete with government-subsidized foreign competitors, the U.S. Gov't >has taken on the role of subisizing big-ticket or long-lead R&D.) This definitely had nothing to do with the entry of the government into the support of science; some of it is relevant in technology. There was little involvement of federal funds, or except through support of state universities, of state funds, for scientific research before WWII. The US research position had been growing steadily, and the funding was mainly from university and private foundation funds. There were not that many research universities, but they all provided their researchers with low teaching loads, laboratories, assistants, and equipment, and funds for travel to scientific meetings. Not that much, but it was provided, and a university wishing to get a scholar had to consider research funding as well as salary. During WWII, the military and the defense departments found that pure scientists could do quite well with their problems, even though they were not exactly in the areas of the scientists' expertise. This is probably because of the ""research mind"" approach, which is not to try to find a solution, but to understand the problem and see if a solution emerges. This works in stages, and as research scientists were used to discussion about their problems, the job got done. The military realized the importance of maintaining scientists for the future, and started funding pure research after WWII. But Congress was unwilling to have military funds diverted into this investment into the future supply of scientists, and set up other organizations, such as NSF, to do the job. It also set up an elaborate procedure to supposedly keep politics out. Also, the government did a job on private foundations, making it more difficult for them to act to support research. The worst part of the federal involvement is that in those areas in which the government supports research the university will not provide funding, and in fact expects its scholars to bring in net government money. Suppose, as has been the case, I have a project which could use the assistance of a graduate student for a few months. What do you think happens if I ask for one? The answer I will get is, ""Get the money from NSF."" Now the money at the university level is a few thousand, but at the NSF level it comes to about 20 thousand, and is likely to keep a faculty member from getting supported. So the government is, in effect, deciding which projects get supported, and how much. Also, the government decided that the ""wealth"" should be spread. So instead of having a moderate number of universities which were primarily research institutions, the idea that more schools should get into the act came into being. And instead of evaluating scholars, they had to go to evaluating reseach proposals. As a researcher, I can tell you that any research proposal has to be mainly wishful thinking, or as now happens, the investigator conceals already done work to release it as the results of the research. What I am proposing today I may solve before the funding is granted, I may find impossible, or I may find that it is too difficult. In addition, tomorrow I may get unexpected research results. Possibly I may bet a bright idea which solves yesterday's too difficult problem, or a whole new approach to something I had not considered can develop. This is the nature of the beast, and except for really vague statements, if something can be predicted, it is not major research, but development or routine activity not requiring more than minimal attention of a good researcher. I believe that at this time less quality research is being done than would have happened if the government had never gotten into it, and the government is trying to divert researchers from thinkers to plodders. -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 Phone: (317)494-6054 hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet) {purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP) ",14 "Re: Saudi clergy condemns debut of human rights group! In article benali@alcor.concordia.ca ( ILYESS B. BDIRA ) writes: >It looks like Ben Baz's mind and heart are also blind, not only his eyes. >I used to respect him, today I lost the minimal amount of respect that >I struggled to keep for him. >To All Muslim netters: This is the same guy who gave a ""Fatwah"" that >Saudi Arabia can be used by the United Ststes to attack Iraq . They were attacking the Iraqis to drive them out of Kuwait, a country whose citizens have close blood and business ties to Saudi citizens. And me thinks if the US had not helped out the Iraqis would have swallowed Saudi Arabia, too (or at least the eastern oilfields). And no Muslim country was doing much of anything to help liberate Kuwait and protect Saudi Arabia; indeed, in some masses of citizens were demonstrating in favor of that butcher Saddam (who killed lotsa Muslims), just because he was killing, raping, and looting relatively rich Muslims and also thumbing his nose at the West. So how would have *you* defended Saudi Arabia and rolled back the Iraqi invasion, were you in charge of Saudi Arabia??? >Fatwah is as legitimate as this one. With that kind of ""Clergy"", it might >be an Islamic duty to separate religion and politics, if religion >means ""official Clergy"". I think that it is a very good idea to not have governments have an official religion (de facto or de jure), because with human nature like it is, the ambitious and not the pious will always be the ones who rise to power. There are just too many people in this world (or any country) for the citizens to really know if a leader is really devout or if he is just a slick operator. > > CAIRO, Egypt (UPI) -- The Cairo-based Arab Organization for Human > Rights (AOHR) Thursday welcomed the establishement last week of the > Committee for Defense of Legal Rights in Saudi Arabia and said it was > necessary to have such groups operating in all Arab countries. You make it sound like these guys are angels, Ilyess. (In your clarinet posting you edited out some stuff; was it the following???) Friday's New York Times reported that this group definitely is more conservative than even Sheikh Baz and his followers (who think that the House of Saud does not rule the country conservatively enough). The NYT reported that, besides complaining that the government was not conservative enough, they have: - asserted that the (approx. 500,000) Shiites in the Kingdom are apostates, a charge that under Saudi (and Islamic) law brings the death penalty. Diplomatic guy (Sheikh bin Jibrin), isn't he Ilyess? - called for severe punishment of the 40 or so women who drove in public a while back to protest the ban on women driving. The guy from the group who said this, Abdelhamoud al-Toweijri, said that these women should be fired from their jobs, jailed, and branded as prostitutes. Is this what you want to see happen, Ilyess? I've heard many Muslims say that the ban on women driving has no basis in the Qur'an, the ahadith, etc. Yet these folks not only like the ban, they want these women falsely called prostitutes? If I were you, I'd choose my heroes wisely, Ilyess, not just reflexively rally behind anyone who hates anyone you hate. - say that women should not be allowed to work. - say that TV and radio are too immoral in the Kingdom. Now, the House of Saud is neither my least nor my most favorite government on earth; I think they restrict religious and political reedom a lot, among other things. I just think that the most likely replacements for them are going to be a lot worse for the citizens of the country. But I think the House of Saud is feeling the heat lately. In the last six months or so I've read there have been stepped up harassing by the muttawain (religious police---*not* government) of Western women not fully veiled (something stupid for women to do, IMO, because it sends the wrong signals about your morality). And I've read that they've cracked down on the few, home-based expartiate religious gatherings, and even posted rewards in (government-owned) newspapers offering money for anyone who turns in a group of expartiates who dare worship in their homes or any other secret place. So the government has grown even more intolerant to try to take some of the wind out of the sails of the more-conservative opposition. As unislamic as some of these things are, they're just a small taste of what would happen if these guys overthrow the House of Saud, like they're trying to in the long run. Is this really what you (and Rached and others in the general west-is-evil-zionists-rule-hate-west-or-you-are-a-puppet crowd) want, Ilyess? -- Dave Bakken ==>""the President is doing a fine job, but the problem is we don't know what to do with her husband."" James Carville (Clinton campaign strategist),2/93 ==>""Oh, please call Daddy. Mom's far too busy."" Chelsea to nurse, CSPAN, 2/93 ",17 "WIN 3.1 comm drivers replacements (question) Has anyone had any experience with a replacement comm driver for windows called TurboComm. I read about it in PCMag Apr 23 1993 and am interested but not willing to shell out the 45 bucks the company wants just to try it out. It supposedly eleminates the problems that occur during a high speed file transfer and a disk access made by another program running at the same time. If anyone has any pro/cons about this product, i would be very inter ested to hear them. Please Email at the address give below. THANKS. Matthew Gibson gibsonm@cs.arizona.edu . ",2 "Roger Maynard Does anyone recieve annoying email from Roger Maynard whenever they post an article telling them to leave him alon and stop posting to the group?? These emails are filled with insults- more than are usual in Roger's posts and have little if any hockey info. I have recieved two in the last 2 days. I am just wondering if I am special or Roger trys to bully everyone who disagrees with him. Gregmeister Obligatory hockey comment: It is highly unlikely that the Maple Leafs will even get out of their division. ",10 "A Trojan Horse on the Clipper Gentlefolk, It seems to me that the ""Step 1"" of taking a warrant to the telco to get a wiretap is so much stinky red herring (don't you love animal metaphors). With each phone broadcasting the serial number of its chip (""E(N;F)"" is not syntactically different than ""N""), all they have to do is aim a reciever in the general direction of today's target and use the serial number to identify the session they want, and get the chip number of the other end of the conversation. Even without the key, this is great for traffic analysis. I can think of several ways to learn the right serial number. It looks like one intended effect of the Clipper is to eliminate the awkward business of getting the telco to cooperate (or risking getting caught in the act with your alligator clips erect). This is particularly handy if you have S1 and S2. BTW, did anyone explain why they are scrambling the serial number? Cheers, Marc --- Marc Thibault | marc@tanda.isis.org Automation Architect | CIS:71441,2226 R.R.1, Oxford Mills, Ontario, Canada | NC FreeNet: aa185 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQBNAiqxYTkAAAECALfeHYp0yC80s1ScFvJSpj5eSCAO+hihtneFrrn+vuEcSavh AAUwpIUGyV2N8n+lFTPnnLc42Ms+c8PJUPYKVI8ABRG0I01hcmMgVGhpYmF1bHQg PG1hcmNAdGFuZGEuaXNpcy5vcmc+ =HLnv -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ",11 "Re: A visit from the Jehovah's Witnesses In article , chrisb@tafe.sa.edu.au (Chris BELL) writes... >jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes: > >>My syllogism is of the form: >>A is B. >>C is A. >>Therefore C is B. > >>This is a logically valid construction. > >>Your syllogism, however, is of the form: >>A is B. >>C is B. >>Therefore C is A. > >>Therefore yours is a logically invalid construction, >>and your comments don't apply. If all of those are ""is""'s of identity, both syllogisms are valid. If, however, B is a predicate, then the second syllogism is invalid. (The first syllogism, as you have pointed out, is valid--whether B is a predicate or designates an individual.) Jim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Dept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 ",0 "Re: Jewish Baseball Players? : >baseball players, past and present. We weren't able to come up : >with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and : >maybe John Lowenstein. Can anyone come up with any more. I know : >it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but : >humor us. Thanks for your help. : John Lowenstein is definately NOT Jewish. Many in Baltimore thought he was... especially after he told the Baltimore _Jewish Times_ so...but later he admitted that it was a joke. ",9 "Re: VLB bus master problem? rbrown@spchp21.BBN.COM (Ralph Brown) writes: >I've yet to hear from someone running a 34F on any motherboard with >NT without shutting off the cache. Consider it heard! AMI Enterprise III EISA/VLB w/ UltraStor 34F -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Edward McClanahan edm@wrs.com ",3 "Re: Thumbs up to ESPN >Especially when the wings player hit the rut and went into the boards injuring his shoulder and they blotted out the injury report. The Wings player was Yves Racine, and he returned later in that same period. Mike ",10 "Re: Question: Jesus alone, Oneness In article jblanken@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (James R. Blankenship) writes: > >""Jesus Only"" and ""Oneness"" tend to refer to groups that do deny the >trinity. ..... >They explain Matthew by saying that Jesus is the name of the Father, Jesus >is the name of the Son, and Jesus is the name of the name of the Holy >Spirit, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit referring to different roles, all >filled by Jesus. .... IMHO this are going from bad to worse. 3-in-1, 1-in-3 was bad enough. I do not like a God who prays to Himself. I refuse to believe Jesus prayed to Himself -- let's get real, if the scriptures say He prayed to the Father, then the Father IS someone different than the Son. I have no problems with multiple Gods. To me, the whole context of the scriptures says: Be perfect, even as your Father Who is in Heaven; that we can be co-heirs with Christ; that we will be like Him. Co-heirs share all things equally--including knowledge, power, dominion etc. When I am like Him (Christ), I will be the same as HE is--and He is a God. If God cannot do this, the His is not all powerful--and He is NOT God. If He will not, He is a Liar--and He is NOT God. But if He does, He is the greatest of all the Gods. [I don't know of anyone who says that Jesus prayed to himself. The whole point of the Trinity is that there's enough of a distinction within God that relationship is possible. This implies some sort of communication. I assume that in their ""native"" form, the Father and Son are directly enough connected that prayer in our sense isn't involved. But Jesus is the incarnation of the Son, i.e. the Logos made flesh. When he's in a human form, his human actions are limited to human capabilities. So communication with the Father takes the form of prayer. I don't see that there's anything problematical about that. It seems to be implicit in the whole idea of incarnation. --clh] ",15 "Re: FCUS/HEALTH: Millions of America In article <1993Apr22.120854.8871@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Not a Boomer) says: > >In article <16BB713D1E.PA146008@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU>, PA146008@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU >(David >Veal) writes: >... >> Here's a question for those of you far more informed about >> health care than I am. My Almanac, quoting OECD Health Data >> lists U.S. Public Health Expenditures for 1990 as being 5.2% of >> GDP, or 42.4% of total health expenditures. >> >> Are we *really* paying 42.4% of our expenditures to insure >> 21% of our population? > > Heh, no doubt more ""evidence"" that the government is more efficient >than 'evil' for profit health care. Proving once again that Brett has a major thinking problem... Two groups that the government insure are the elderly and the ""medically an needy"" (those who have impoverished themselves through spending for medical care). The typical elderly person spends 3.5 times what a person under age 65. The typical medically needy person spends about 10 times what the average person does. You've got to adjust those data, Brett. These words and thoughts are my own. * I am not bound to swear ** ** ** ** * allegiance to the word of any ** ** ** ** ** ** * master. Where the storm carries ** ** ** * me, I put into port and make D. Shea, PSU * myself at home. ",18 "Re: Clipper and conference calls In article <1993Apr25.114820.14022@ulysses.att.com> smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes: In article <122723@netnews.upenn.edu>, feeley@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Wm. Michael Feeley) writes: > Just curious, how would the Clipper Chip system handle > conference calls? It's not Clipper, it's any encryption system. I've seen a number of designs; they generally involve a multi-line cleartext bridge. Depending on the encryption system, so long as everyone has the same key, it can be done. For example, I was using ""vat"", which is an Internet Audio tool, for a conference call, and we were encrypting the session. (Unfortunately, one site was doing more work, and didn't have the CPU for it, so it didn't sound all that good at a different site) So, you don't neccessarily have to have a clear-text bridge. But if you do, its totally internal to one of the sites involved in the conversation.... -derek -- Derek Atkins, MIT '93, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Secretary, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) MIT Media Laboratory, Speech Research Group warlord@MIT.EDU PP-ASEL N1NWH ",11 "Re: KORESH IS GOD! >>FROM: mathew >>The latest news seems to be that Koresh will give himself up once he's >>finished writing a sequel to the Bible. In article <2944079995.1.p00261@psilink.com> ""Robert Knowles"" writes: >Writing the Seven Seals or something along those lines. He's already >written the first of the Seven which was around 30 pages or so and has >handed it over to an assistant for PROOFREADING!. I would expect any >decent messiah to have a built-in spellchecker. Maybe Koresh 2.0 will >come with one. I heard he had asked the FBI to provide him with a word processor. Does anyone know if Koresh has requested that it be WordPerfect5.0? WP5.0 was written (and is owned) by Mormons, so the theological implications of requesting (or refusing) WP5.0 are profound! darin wilkins@scubed.scubed.com ________________________________ | | | I will be President for food | |______________________________| ",0 "Re: Lindbergh and the moon (was:Why not give $1G) jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes: >mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Keith Mancus) writes: >>cook@varmit.mdc.com (Layne Cook) writes: >>> The $25k Orteig prize helped Lindbergh sell his Spirit >>> of Saint Louis venture to his financial backers. But I strongly suspect >>> that his Saint Louis backers had the foresight to realize that much more >>> was at stake than $25,000. Could it work with the moon? Who are the >>> far-sighted financial backers of today? >> The commercial uses of a transportation system between already-settled- >>and-civilized areas are obvious. Spaceflight is NOT in this position. >>The correct analogy is not with aviation of the '30's, but the long >>transocean voyages of the Age of Discovery. > Lindbergh's flight took place in '27, not the thirties. Of course; sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to the fact that far more aeronautical development took place in the '30's. For much of the '20's, the super-abundance of Jennies and OX-5 engines held down the industry. By 1926, many of the obsolete WWI aircraft had been retired and Whirlwind had their power/weight ratio and reliability up to the point where long-distance flights became practical. It's important to note that the Atlantic was flown not once but THREE times in 1927: Lindbergh, Chamberlin and Levine, and Byrd's _America_. ""When it's time to railroad, you railroad."" >>It didn't require gov't to fund these as long as something was known about >>the potential for profit at the destination. In practice, some were gov't >>funded, some were private. >Could you give examples of privately funded ones? Not off the top of my head; I'll have to dig out my reference books again. However, I will say that the most common arrangement in Prince Henry the Navigator's Portugal was for the prince to put up part of the money and merchants to put up the rest. They profits from the voyage would then be shared. >>But there was no way that any wise investor would spend a large amount >>of money on a very risky investment with no idea of the possible payoff. >A person who puts up $X billion for a moon base is much more likely to do >it because they want to see it done than because they expect to make money >off the deal. The problem is that the amount of prize money required to inspire a Moon Base is much larger than any but a handful of individuals or corporations can even consider putting up. The Kremer Prizes (human powered aircraft), Orteig's prize, Lord Northcliffe's prize for crossing the Atlantic (won in 1919 by Alcock and Brown) were MUCH smaller. The technologies required were within the reach of individual inventors, and the prize amounts were well within the reach of a large number of wealthy individuals. I think that only a gov't could afford to set up a $1B+ prize for any purpose whatsoever. Note that Burt Rutan suggested that NASP could be built most cheaply by taking out an ad in AvWeek stating that the first company to build a plane that could take off and fly the profile would be handed $3B, no questions asked. -- Keith Mancus | N5WVR | ""Black powder and alcohol, when your states and cities fall, | when your back's against the wall...."" -Leslie Fish | ",14 "Frozen shoulder and lawn mowing Ihave had a frozen shoulder for over a year or about a year. It is still partially frozen, and I am still in physical therapy every week. But the pain has subsided almost completely. UNTIL last week when I mowed the lawn for twenty minutes each, two days in a row. I have a push type power mower. The pain started back up a little bit for the first time in quite a while, and I used ice and medicine again. Can anybody explain why this particular activity, which does not seem to stress me very much generally, should cause this shoulder problem? Thanks. Alice ",13 "Re: C++/Motif, gcc, silly messages Thanks to everyone who mailed help, unfortunately the end problem was a REALLY stupid `oversight' on my behalf. The code was 100% perfect, but it might help to add Control.C to my makefile....... Anyway the mangled name was telling me it could'nt locate the Control constructor... I just want to reaffirm what a valuable book this one is, I'm enjoying evry page :) ",5 "Re: Help adding a SCSI Drive In article <1993Apr19.195301.27872@oracle.us.oracle.com>, ebosco@us.oracle.com (Eric Bosco) writes: > > I have a 486sx25 computer with a 105 Mg Seagate IDE drive and a controler > built into the motherboard. I want to add a SCSI drive (a quantum prodrive > 425F 425 MG formatted). I have no documentation at all and I need your > help! > > As I understand it, here is the process of adding such a drive. Could you > please tell me if I'm right.. > > 1- Buy a SCSI contoler. Which one? I know Adaptec is good, but they are > kind of expensive. Are there any good boards in the $100 region? I want > it to be compatible with OS2 and Unix if possible. Also, I have seen on > the net that there are SCSI and SCSI2 drives. Is this true? Does the > adapter need to be the same as the drive? What type of drive is the > quantum? I have tried others, but I think that the Adaptec is best value for money. > 2- connect the drive to the adapter via a SCSI cable and the power cable. > Do i have to worry about the power supply? I think I have 200 watts and > all I'm powering are two floppies and the seagate drive. I dont think you can mix the two types of drive, unless you have one of the SCSI/IDE cards that is available. You will have to turn your IDE off. > 3- Setup the BIOS to recognize the drive as the second drive. What type > of drive is this? I don't have the numbers for this drive. Instructions for drive type are included with the controller. With some it may be a type 1. no matter what the disk is. With others it may be a type 47. I had one controller that I had to tell the BIOS that no hard disk was installed. > 4- Format and create partitions on the drive. Do I use format or fdisk? I > think that IDE drives can't be low-level formatted. Is it the same with > SCSI? How exactly does fdisk work? I have a reduced msdos 5.0 manual > (clone obliges) and there is no mention of fdisk. Ideally, I would want > the drive partitioned in to two partitions D: and E: how do I do this? Do not low level format a SCSI unless you have the SCSI low level format program. First use fdisk to set the partitions, then use format. > Well that seems to be all. Is there anythiing I'm forgetting? > Any help is *really* appreciated, I'm lost... > > -Eric > > ebosco@us.oracle.com -- Mark ______________________________________________________________________________ mark@uk.ac.ox.physchem ",3 "Re: Why are our desktop fonts changing? In article <16BC0956B.JC924@uacsc2.albany.edu>, JC924@uacsc2.albany.edu writes: >One of our users is having an unusual problem. If she does an Alt/Tab to >a full-screen DOS program, when she goes back to Windows her desktop fonts >have changed. If she goes back to a full-screen DOS program and then goes >back to Windows, the font has changed back to its default font. It's not >a major problem (everything works and the font is legible), but it is >annoying. Does anyone have any idea why this happens. By the way, she >has a DEC 486D2LP machine. > If it's any consolation, I had a similar problem. As I recall, if I exited from a DOS session while in full-screen mode, the menu titles had changed to a scrambled version of the icon title font (or something like that). It only started happening after I used IconTitleFaceName in WIN.INI to change the desktop font to Arial. So I stopped exiting from DOS sessions while in full-screen mode. My Mac used to do something similar. Aren't computers weird? ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Mark Hadfield hadfield@wao.greta.cri.nz | | NIWA Oceanographic (Taihoro Nukurangi) | | 310 Evans Bay Rd, Greta Point Telephone: (+64-4) 386-1189 | | PO Box 14-901, Kilbirnie Fax: (+64-4) 386-2153 | | Wellington, New Zealand | ------------------------------------------------------------------ ",2 "Re: rnitedace and violence I am glad that you recognize that people should not engage in denial and repression, and should acknowledge such. The United States, with its people, have recognized that repression has taken place, with the loss and outright abrogation of civil liberties and constitutional protections of citizens. This recognition has taken the form of the civil rights law (let's just discuss the federal level for now), such as 18 USC 241 et. seq., 42 USC 1981 et. seq, et. al. With this recognition of repression, at times manifested in the form of collective guilt, I want people to recognize denial. Though it can be said that white people numerically commit more crimes in the United States, because white people are a majority, it can also be said that black people commit a disproportionate amount of crime in the United States, in their relation to their numbers in population. My views are out of experiences when I was a police officer in a large metropolitan area, and of a citizen. Unless people account for their behavior, and for the behavior of their immediate community, nothing will improve. Regards, Neal ",18 "Re: Freedom In U.S.A. In article <1993Apr27.005225.8231@Virginia.EDU> ab4z@Virginia.EDU (""Andi Beyer"") writes: > Virginia.edu is true to its founding father, Thomas >Jefferson the author of the bill of rights, in allowing freedom >of speach. Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his grave because the university is making rules about sex. Doesn't UVA also have a hate crimes rule on the books? Adam Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu ""If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."" -John Perry Barlow ",17 "MGR NAPLPS & GUI BBS Frontends Hi all, I am looking into methods I can use to turn my Linux based BBS into a full color Graphical BBS that supports PC, Mac, Linux, and Amiga callers. Originally I was inspired by the NAPLPS graphics standard (a summary of which hit this group about 2 weeks ago). Following up on software availability of NAPLPS supporting software I find that most terminal programs are commercial the only resonable shareware one being PP3 which runs soley on MSDOS machines leaving Mac and Amiga users to buy full commercial software if they want to try out the BBS (I know I wouldn't) Next most interesting possibility is to port MGR to PC, Mac, Amiga. I know there is an old version of a Mac port on bellcore.com that doesn't work under System 7 But I can't seem to find the source anywhere to see if I can patch it. Is there a color version of MGR for Linux? I know there was an alpha version of the libs out last year but I misplaced it. Does anyone on this group know if MGR as been ported to PC or Amiga ? I can't seem to send a message to the MGR channel without it bouncing. Does anyone have any other suggestions for a Linux based GUI BBS ? Thanks in advan ",1 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. In article sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes: >I was wondering, what copy protection techniques are avaliable, and how >effective are they? Has anyone have any experience in this area? > > With highest regards, > Babak Sehari. One of the easiest, and really very used ways of copyprotection, is to mark a specific sector on the installation disk bad. This is very easy to get around, though, if you have any knowledge of hw-hacking, but most 'normal' users (yes those lowly key-punchers) don't. Whatever you do, please do _not_ use a hardware key. These were very popular a few years ago, and they STINK!! MAIL-mail: gunnarh@sofus.dhhalden.no SNAIL-mail: Gunnar Horrigmo gunnarh@fenris.dhhalden.no Oskleiva 17 N-1772 Norway ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: The above posting may seem like insignificant rubbish at first glance, but if you read between the lines, you will be surprised to discover the annals of Burt Bacharach, world peace, Oxford Advanced Readers Dictionary, quantum physics made easy, and an easy-to-use step-by-step walkthrough on how to make a time travelling device that actually works. ",12 "Re: Bikes vs. Horses (was Re: insect impacts f In a previous article, npet@bnr.ca (Nick Pettefar) says: >Jonathan E. Quist, on the Thu, 15 Apr 1993 14:26:42 GMT wibbled: >: In article txd@ESD.3Com.COM (Tom Dietrich) writes: >: >>In a previous article, egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) says: > >: [lots of things, none of which are quoted here] > >The nice thing about horses though, is that if they break down in the middle of >nowhere, you can eat them. And they're rather tasty. > Fuel's a bit cheaper, too. > Per gallon (bushel) perhaps. Unfortunately they eat the same amount every day no matter how much you ride them. And if you don't fuel them they die. On an annual basis, I spend much less on bike stuff than Amy the Wonder Wife does on horse stuff. She has two horses, I've got umm, lesseee, 11 bikes. I ride constantly, she rides four or five times a week. Even if you count insurance and the cost of the garage I built, I'm getting off cheaper than she is. And having more fun (IMHO). > > -- Go fast. Take chances. Mike S. ",8 "Re: Windows Speaker Sound Driver In article <1993Apr19.235430.6097@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> alee@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (Alec Lee) writes: >Is there an ftp site where I can get the MS speaker sound driver? There's >a ""sound.exe"" file that claims to be the driver but I'm suspicious since >it's not a .drv file. Thats the file... -- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Tony Annese claebaur@shell.portal.com -or- claebaur@cup.portal.com \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ",2 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article , irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: > Sorry, guy, you got it wrong. ATF was pumping tear gas into the compound. > The Branch Davidians (going along with their apocolyptic faith) set their > own compound on fire killing all but 9 or so. No children survived. Seeing as how people are willing to quote the FBI quoting cultists who just yesterday were deranged and not to be trusted (hmm the FBI or the cultists...) I think I'll quote the BBC quoting (actually voice interview) one of the two British survivors. He claimed that the fire started when the tanks caused an internal wooden wall/roof to collapse knocking over kerosene lamps and that they had no suicide plan. Maybe true, partly true, or false. -- Alan Greig Janet: A.Greig@uk.ac.dct Dundee Institute of Technology Internet: A.Greig@dct.ac.uk Tel: (0382) 308810 (Int +44 382 308810) ** Never underestimate the power of human stupidity ** ",16 "Re: Looking for a good Spice book In NEIL B. GANDLER (v064mb9k@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu) wrote: :> I am an electrical engineering student and its a must that I get familiar :> with spice. I have been using it and getting used to it but it would :> be great to have a good reference manual that explains everything in an :> organized and concise. I current have ""A guide to circuit simulation & :> Analysis using spice"". I feel it has the information is just randomly placed :> in the book and its not easy to look up small things when you just :> need a good reference book. I would appreciate any info. Thanks There is a postscript manual at ic.berkeley.edu in pub/spice3/um.3f.ps directory (about 650kbytes, 126 pages). -- Juhan Poeldvere, ES5QX | juhan@chem.ut.ee Tartu University, Dept. of Chemistry | fax: 372 (34) 35440 2 Jakobi St., EE-2400, Tartu, Estonia, via Stockholm | voice: 372 (34) 35429 ",12 "Corneal erosion/abrasions. For several years I have been dealing with reccurring corneal erosion. There does not seem to be much known about the cause of such a problem. My current episode is pretty bad since it is located in the middle of the cornea. If it's bad enough, the usual treatment for it is puncture therapy. However, my doctor this time is trying to let it heal by itself by putting a contact lens to protect the area. Apparently the problem is not that common, but I'd be curious if anyone else out there has a similar problem, perhaps to see if a cause can be found. Mark London MRL@NERUS.PFC.MIT.EDU ",13 "updated keyboard question for the plus I have an old Mac Plus. A couple of years ago I bought a shiney new lc. It came with apple's new keyboard (with abd ports). i replaced it with a mac-pro-plus extended keyboard (which i thoroughly enjoy, thank you very much). well, i have this extra keyboard which i would like to use on the plus but there's a little problem. the plus uses an rj-11 jack for keyboard input and the new keyboards don't. i got an extra adb cable from my local apple dealer (they're such nice people), but they couldn't tell me the order of the wires. there are four wires in the adb cables: black, white, red, tan. I know one's a ground, one gets the serial signal, one supplies 5 volts, and i forgot what the fourth one does. anyway, if you hook them up wrong you'll fry a board and i don't want to do . if any brave souls out there have done this before, please e-mail your experience directly to me. i would greatly appreciate it especially since apple's original keyboard is not . . . ergonomically correct. btw, i did take apart my new keyboard to see if i could find the correlation between the wires for the rj-11 jack and the adb since it has both, but no such luck (the connections are soldered inside of little boxes). Oh, well . . . one more thing: in case you are thinking that the ABD ports on the newer models are different from the connection used on the plus--- you're right. however, you can use the telephone cable from the plus and connect the mac-pro-plus keyboard via its own rj-11 jack. in other words, this little engineering feat i wish to do *is* possible. it's merely a matter of finding out the correct order. omt, when i get this to work, i definitely will post the solution so others can, too. thanx for the input. ***************************************************************** * Tis the blink of an eye, tis the draught of a breath, * * From the blossoms of health, to the paleness of death, * * From the gilded saloon, to the briar in the shroud, * * O, why should the spirit of mortal be proud? * * -William Knox * ***************************************************************** * shagberg@vm.cmp.ilstu.edu * ***************************************************************** ",4 "Ski Supplies We have the following ski equipment for sale: 120 cm poles $20 (white) Salomon Boots-SX80 $40 ; size 320 ladies = 8 to 8.5 in womens size shoe ; two unused in-soles included. What's left of a ski set Bought New; Hardly Used; Excellent Condition! Asking $55 for the entire package. You pay shipping and COD charges. Send me some e-mail. I will provide further discriptions upon request. -- ****************************************************************************** Davis jd490475@longs.lance.colostate.edu ****************************************************************************** ",6 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr16.190447.8242@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes: >In article <1993Apr16.155123.447@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca (OPIRG) writes: > >>Maybe you missed it amidst the flurry of responses? > >You mean the responses some of which pointed to double-blind tests >which show no such ""chinese restaurant effect"" unique to MSG >(it's elicited by the placebo as well.) Many people responded with more anecdotal stories; I think its safe to say the original poster is already familiar with such stories. Presumably, he wants hard info to substantiate or refute claims about MSG making people ill. Similarly, debunking such claims without doing research (whether literature and lab), is equally beside the point. The original poster no doubt already knows that some people think 'Chinese Restaurant Syndrome' is bogus. Placebos are all very interesting, but irrelevant to the question of what effects MSG has. You could have real effects *and* placebo effects; people may have allergies in addition. > >>Yet again, the use of this >>newsgroup is hampered by people not restricting their posts to matters >>they have substantial knowledge of. > >Like youself? Someone who can read a scientific paper and apparently >come away from it with bizarrely cracked ideas which have nothing to >do with the use of this substance in human nutrition? Have you read Olney's work? I fail to see how citing results from peer-reviewed studies qualifies as ""bizarrely cracked"". >>For cites on MSG, look up almost anything by John W. Olney, a >>toxicologist who has studied the effects of MSG on the brain and on >>development. It is undisputed in the literature that MSG is an >>excitotoxic food additive, > >No, it's undisputed in the literature that glutamate is an amino acid >which is an excitatory neurotransmitter. There is also evidence that >excessive release of glutamate may be involved in the pathology of certain >conditions like stroke, drowning and Lou Gehrig's disease, just to name a few. >This is a completely different issue than the use of this ubiquitous amino acid >in foods. People are not receiving intra-ventricular injections of glutamate. Tests have been done on Rhesus monkeys, as well. I have never seen a study where the mode of administration was intra-ventricular. The Glu and Asp were administered orally. Some studies used IV and SC. Intra-ventricular is not a normal admin. method for food tox. studies, for obvious reasons. You must not have read the peer-reviewed works that I referred to or you would never have come up with this brain injection bunk. >>Too much in the diet, and the system gets thrown off. > >Sez you. Such an effect in humans has not been demonstrated in any >controlled studies. Infant mice and other models are useful as far >as they go, but they're not relevant to the matter at hand. Which is >not to say that I favor its use in things like baby food--a patently >ridiculous use of the additive. But we have no reason to believe >that MSG in the diet effects humans adversely. Pardon me, but where are you getting this from? Have you read the journals? Have you done a thorough literature search? But, you're right, mice aren't the best to study this on. They're four times less sensitive than humans to MSG. >>Glutamate and aspartate, also an excitotoxin are necessary in >>small amounts, and are freely available in many foods, but the amounts >>added by industry are far above the amounts that would normally be >>encountered in a ny single food. > >Wrong. Do you know how much aspartate or phenylalanine is in a soft drink? >Milligrams worth. Compare that to a glass of milk. Do you know how much >glutamate is present in most protein-containing foods compared to that >added by the use of MSG? The point is exceeding the window. Of course, they're amino acids. Note that people with PKU cannot tolerate any phenylalanine. Olney's research compared infant human diets. Specifically, the amount of freely available Glu in mother's milk versus commercial baby foods, vs. typical lunch items from the Standard American Diet such as packaged soup mixes. He found that one could exceed the projected safety margin for infant humans by at least four-fold in a single meal of processed foods. Mother's milk was well below the effective dose. >>Read Olney's review paper in Prog. Brain Res, 1988, and check *his* >>sources. They are impecable. There is no dispute. > >Impeccable. There most certainly is a dispute. Between who? Over what? I would be most interested in seeing you provide peer-reviewed non-food-industry-funded citations to articles disputing that MSG has no effects whatsoever. > >Steve Dyer >dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer Hmm. "".com"". Why am I not surprised? - Dianne Murray wcsbeau@ccs.carleton.ca ",13 "Re: Clipper considered harmful In article , wcs@anchor.ho.att.com (Bill Stewart +1-908-949-0705) writes: > On the other hand, I can easily see them recording the traffic for > ""interesting"" people, such as dissidents, suspected criminals, > foreign telephone calls, and anybody noticed using encryption. > As Ken Shiriff speculates, recording encrypted traffic will probably > be judged not to be an invasion of privacy pretty soon .... As I read the current wiretap law, it would not be legal now. On the other hand, assuming a legislative change, recording but not decrypting Clipper conversations would probably be found constitutional by the Supreme Court, using the same reasoning (or the lack thereof...) by which they permit random roadblocks to check for drunk drivers. Incidentally, if we use that as our model, the Court will likely not uphold selective recording. (On the other hand, I don't think they've thrown out ``drug courier profiles'' yet. Must be that exception to the Fourth Amendment that I can never find in my copy of the Bill of Rights.) A lot -- and I mean a *lot* -- will depend on exactly how Clippertaps (or Tipperclaps, for encrypted music?) are used. Don Alvarez showed in the latest RISKS digest that it's possible to prevent the cops from reading traffic after their warrant expires. That is -- the cops send the LEF to the F-holder. The F-holder strips off F, and sends U[K],N to the escrow agents. They send either U or K to the cops. (Don says U, I say K.) The cops can't use U in the future, because they can't strip off F. The F-holder never sees U. In Don's model, the escrow agents can't read the traffic, because they don't have K; in my model, they have K, but not the message itself. And I trust that more because I think the cops and the FBI (the F-holder) are more likely to collaborate on breaking the rules. The net result is that by involving the F-holder and the escrow agents on every tap, we can avoid extending permission to tap. ",11 "modems and noisy lines. Hi, I just got a problem, I have a cheapo 2400bps modem which I use to connect to my university, but I get too much garbage on the screen. I do know it's because the noise in the line (I can actually hear it). So my question is will an error correction protocol help to eliminate this garbage?, my modem doesn't have any of these on hardware, can a software implemented protocol do the trick? Thanks. Juan Carlos Leon -- jleon@scf.usc.edu | jcleon@ucs.usc.edu Electrical & Computer Major | University Computing Services University of Southern California Los Angeles, CA. ",3 "Re: HELP:IDE Drive installation problems Article #61175 (61302 is last): >Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware From: qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Kris Schludermann) Subject: HELP:IDE Drive installation problems Date: Thu Apr 22 12:11:58 1993 I'm having trouble with installing a second IDE drive on a Promise IDE caching controller. The first drive is a conner 3204 and works fine. The second drive is a conner 30174, it is currently unjumpered to be the slave drive. The problem is the slave drive is recognized but is reported back as having no free space. Disabling cache has made no effect. What else should I check for? krispy End of File, Press RETURN to quit Krispy, Lets start with what Promise controller that you have. Ther are only about 4 or 6 of them made. The one that I have the DC-99m needs nothing done but install it as stated. As to the 2th. hd you do know about running FDISK on it and partisitions and then formatting it after your finished with the fdisk operation right!....Sam -- Gosh..I think I just installed a virus..It was called MS DOS6... Don't copy that floppy..BURN IT...I just love Windows...CRASH... ",3 "Re: VHS movie for sale In article <1993Apr19.211400.1@hirama.hiram.edu> koutd@hirama.hiram.edu (DOUGLAS KOU) writes: >VHS movie for sale. > >Dance with Wovies ($12.00) ^^^^^^ what the hell ios a 'wovie' ?? (wovy (sp))?? -- From there to here, from here to there, funny things are everywhere Dr. Suess ..jonathan Sawitsky 'some random wierdo' martimer@wpi.wpi.edu... ",6 "Re: The source of that announcement Marc Horowitz N1NZU (marc@mit.edu) wrote: : The message from the NIST about the clipper chip comes from the : following address: : : clipper@csrc.ncsl.nist.gov (Clipper Chip Announcement) : : Just who is that, I asked myself, or rather, I asked the computer. : : % telnet csrc.ncsl.nist.gov 25 ...list of name elided for brevity...... : : Well, isn't that interesting. Dorothy Denning, Mitch Kapor, Marc : Rotenberg, Ron Rivest, Jim Bidzos, and others. The Government, RSA, : TIS, CPSR, and the EFF are all represented. I don't suppose anybody : within any of these organizations would care to comment? Or is this : just the White House's idea of a cruel joke on these peoples' inboxes? I know that at least one person on that list says the first he heard of Clipper was in the Friday morning newspaper! And another has already fired off a letter of protest to NIST. My point? I suspect this list, interesting as it is for various reasons, does not represent the cabal that put this proposal together. Some of them, yes. Others, no. This may be nothing more than a mailing list of people who get crypto-related announcements from NSA, er, I mean ""NIST."" -Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. ",11 "Vandalizing the sky Wm Hathaway comments; >I'd like to add that some of the ""protests"" do not come from a strictly >practical consideration of what pollution levels are acceptable for >research activities by professional astronomers. Some of what I >would complain about is rooted in aesthetics. Many readers may >never have known a time where the heavens were pristine - sacred - >unsullied by the actions of humans. The space between the stars >as profoundly black as an abyss can be. With full horizons and >a pure sky one could look out upon half of all creation at a time >- none of which had any connection with the petty matters of man. >Any lights were supplied solely by nature; uncorruptable by men. >Whole religions were based on mortal man somehow getting up there >and becoming immortal as the stars, whether by apotheosis or a belief >in an afterlife. >The Space Age changed all that. [more on man's effect on the environment] >But there is still this desire to see a place that man hasn't >fouled in some way. >.... I think my point about a desire for beauty is valid, >even if it can't ever be perfectly achieved. I agree that the desire for beauty is valid, but I think your desire to impose your vision of beauty is not. You mention the age-old desire to somehow get up there, but ignore the beauty of the actual achievment of that vision. You mention the beauty of a very dark sky, not impeded by the effects of humans, but ignore the beauty of the as-dark-as-can-be sky that is only visible from space, a vision that we, or at least, our descendents, may one day be able to see, in part, because of efforts that others call ugly. One day, I hope, humans will be able to look out, not upon half the heavens, with only nature-creted lights, but upon all of the heavens, with no lights. If advertising in space can help us reach that goal, it is no less beautiful for the way we reach it, than the 'pristine' sky of yesteryear (or yester-century), which is totally unreachable. One of the original conceptions of beauty in wetsern sculpture was a human form, in the effort of striving to reach a goal. I don't think there's any reason to believe that modernity has changed that, just because it has changed the way we strive. BTW, there are places that people haven't fouled. Sometimes they make it better. -Tommy Mac ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk \\ As the radius of vision increases, 18084tm@ibm.cl.msu.edu 336-9591 hm \\ the circumference of mystery grows. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",14 "By the sword... Deuteronmy 20:13 And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword Joshua 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, bith man and women, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 10:32 And the Lord delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah ",19 "Phils are still looking immaculate! Ladies and gentleman, Step one was taken on the Phils' triumphant trip this year tonight! (Yes, that was English!) Mulholland's ERA after tonight's game? 0.00...nice try Drabek! NINJA JEW ",9 "COM4 card shows up as COM3 with COM4's address and IRQ! I have an internal modem that I configure as COM4 with IRQ 3, but when I insert that card into my DOS 5.02 PC, it shows up as COM3, with IRQ3 and COM4's address (2E8)! When I get into debug, and dump the data at 40:0, it shows the address 2E8 as belonging to COM3 - even though the modem should be at COM4. Now, I know the modem is working correctly since I have tested it in a different PC - and it shows up correctly as COM4, 2E8, IRQ3. To make it work in the DOS 5.02 PC, I have to configure the modem as COM3, 2E8, IRQ3---but though I have a comm program that allows that, the FAX program that came with the modem does not work. Anyway, I would like the computer to display the modem as it is set, as COM4... I did run a few diagnostic programs, and they did not help at all: a few displayed the modem as COM4, and others displayed it as being COM3. I am not using Windows, this is just a DOS problem...Any help or pointers appreciated.... For various reasons, I must have this modem work at COM4, thus switching COM ports is not an answer... (Last time I posted this, I did not get any DOS specific answer, this time I have included all the specific information....please help!) ----- Avinash Chopde avinash@acm.org -- Avinash Chopde avinash@acm.org avinash@genesis.nred.ma.us ",3 "Re: wife wants convertible And here's my two cents: The best convertible for the money, IMO, is the Miata. Yes, it's small, but you're buying it as a second car, I hope, so you don't need the cargo room of a big car. It's got enough power for fun, it's RWD like a sports car ought to be (I'm gonna regret that :-{) and the top, while manual, operates like a dream. 30 seconds and one hand to lower, and not much longer to raise. The targa-type cars are nice, but they're not real convertibles. -- *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* Ken Warren |The secrets of a good life are early nights, good |food, excercise, and clean living... E-Mail: kenw@netaxs.com|But the secrets of a happy life are late nights, |wild parties, kinky sex, and junk food! *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* ",7 "DARKROOM SUPPLIES/ENLARGER FOR SALE: * Besler 23C II Enlarger (including filters & negative carriers) * Darkroom supplies (containers, trays, thermometer, beakers, paper focuser, etc...I also have paper & chemicals, but I think these 2 are past expiration date) Everything is in great working condition. I bought it about a year ago and it has served its purpose well. It hasn't been used it in a few months because I don't have the time or money to keep up with it and its just sitting in my bathroom taking up space I'd like to use. So, I'd like to sell it to someone who would use it rather than it collect dust in my bathroom. If you are interested in the whole package, I will sell everything (including shipping) for $300. If you have something else in mind, I'm open to suggestions. Please reply to this account. Thank you... Michelle ",6 "Need help with busted Imtec 1455N monitor, need specs on it or monitors in gen. HELP!! This morning I turned on my computer..to be greated with a popping noise from the monitor. I quickly looked thru the top right vent and to my disbelief saw orange flame and smelled smoke! Great... I opened it up to see what I could see (it's 4 years old, no warrenty for me). On one of the pc boards there was a resistor that had been majorly fryed..burnt to a crisp..can't even tell what value it is. This is the only pjhysical damage I can find. But to my knowledge, resistors don't just randomly blow. What could have happened?? A voltage regulator problem..? The fuses nearby are intact...great job. I have 2 thoughts as to why it did this. One, over the winter I was ruinning a humidifier for about 6 weeks, although it was halfway across the room. Could moisture done this? I last used it over a month ago. Second, as most people do...I never use the power switches on the CPU or moinitor. I have everything plugged into a surge protector and I turn the whole shebang on with it. Now, is this bad??? Should I quit doing it? Is my system getting too much power or varrying power this way when activated? Now...before I take it to a repaoir shop I want to replace the resistor to see what happens. But I have no idea what value it is. Or even if that would fix things..would it just blow again?? Right now, when I plug it in and turn it on I don't even get the power LED..a power supply prolem?? Should I bother tracking down this resistor value or take it to a shop?? It is resistor R830. It's near the metal shield that shgields..something..near a large black electrolytic capacitor. It's on the right most pc board. The monitor is an Imtec 1455N, from mid-1989. Does someone have schematics for this? Or would someone be willing to take theirs apart and see what value R830 is??? Basically, what the hell should I do to get this thing fixed for the cheapest amont in the least time. I have crosposted this article. Please respond via email with any help or suggestions. Also, does anyone have Imtecs phone or address?? My manual lacks either from what I can see. Please respons VIA EMAIL ONLY!!! Needless to say, with no computer I don't have the leisure of scanning groups while bothering my friend to use his computer/modem. Help..this really bites and I need it working ASAP!!! ",12 "Beta Testers Wanted for Graphics Libraries Visual Numerics Inc. (formerly IMSL and Precision Visuals) is in the process of securing sites for beta testing X Exponent Graphics 1.0 and C Exponent Graphics 2.0. (Both X Exponent Graphics and C Exponent Graphics are 3GL products). The beta period is from April 26 through June 18. The platform is HP9000/700 running under OS 8.07 with ansi C 8.71 compiler. The media will be sent on 4mm DAT cartridge tape. Here are some of the key facts about the two products. X Exponent Graphics 1.0 key facts: 1. Complete collection of high-level 2D and 3D application plot types available through a large collection of X resources. 2. Cstom widget for OSF/Motif developers. 3. Built-in interactive GUI for plot customization. 4. Easily-implemented callbacks for customized application feedback. 5. XEG 1.0, being built on the Xt Toolkit provides the user a widget library that conforms to the expected syntax and standards familar to X programmers. 6. XEG will also be sold as a bundle with Visual Edge's UIM/X product. This will enable user to use a GUI builder to create the graphical layout of an application. C Exponent Graphics 2.0 key facts: 1. Written in C for C application programmers/developers. The library is 100% written in C, and the programming interface conforms to C standards, taking advantage fo the most desirable features of C. 2. Build-in GUI for interactive plot customization. Through mouse interaction, the user has complete interactive graph output control with over 200 graphics attributes for plot customization. 3. Large collection of high-level application functions for ""two-call"" graph creation. A wide variety of 2D and 3D plot types are available with minimal programming effort. 4. User ability to interrupt and control the X event. By controlling the X event loop, when the user use the mouse to manipulate the plot the user can allow CEG to control the event loop or the user can control the event loop. If anyone is interested in beta testing either of the products, please contact Wendy Hou at Visual Numerics via email at hou@imsl.com or call 713-279-1066. -- Jaclyn Brandt jbrandt@NeoSoft.com -- ",1 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article , bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes: > b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes: > > > >One way or another -- so much for patience. Too bad you couldn't just > >wait. Was the prospect of God's Message just too much to take? > > So you believe that David Koresh really is Jesus Christ? Yea, who'd ever believe that God would show up in human form. :-0 -- Russ Anderson | Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect ------------------ upon my employer or anyone else. (c) 1993 EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!) ",18 "RIPEM Frequently Asked Questions Archive-name: ripem/faq Last-update: 31 Mar 93 22:00:00 -0500 ABOUT THIS POSTING ------------------ This is a listing of likely questions and information about RIPEM, a program for public key mail encryption. It (this FAQ, not RIPEM) was written and will be maintained by Marc VanHeyningen . It will be posted to a variety of newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific to RIPEM is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem. WHAT'S NEW ---------- I am now running a World Wide Web archive of RIPEM information. It does not contain much of anything that isn't available elsewhere, but it has convenient pointers to the most current version of this FAQ and some other stuff. The URL is ""http://cs.indiana.edu/ripem/dir.html"". This month's version has a fair amount of new pointers to information on patents and stuff like that. I've also reordered a few things to have a more sensible ordering. I hope I don't have to edit this again soon. :-) DISCLAIMER ---------- Nothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything other than one layperson's opinion. If you want real legal advice, talk to a real lawyer, preferably one with experience in patent law, export regulations, or whatever area of law is in question. LIST OF QUESTIONS ----------------- 1) What is RIPEM? 2) How can I get RIPEM? 3) Will RIPEM run on my machine? 4) Will RIPEM work with my mailer? 5) What is RSA? 6) What is DES? 7) What is a fingerprint, like MD5? 8) What is PEM? 9) What's this about distributing and authenticating keys? 10) Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM? 11) What about RSADSI/PKP? 12) Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar? 13) What is PGP? 14) What about RPEM? 15) What is MIME? 16) What is TIS/PEM? 17) I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM... QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS --------------------- 1) What is RIPEM? RIPEM is a (not yet complete, but useful) implementation of Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM). RIPEM allows your electronic mail to have the four security facilities provided by PEM: disclosure protection (optional), originator authenticity, message integrity measures, and non-repudiation of origin (always). (See: ""What is PEM?"") RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan . Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines, which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc. The current version of RIPEM is 1.0.5; the current version of the Macintosh port of RIPEM is 0.7. 2) How can I get RIPEM? RIPEM uses the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution to persons who are not citizens or permanent residents in the U.S or Canada without an export license. No such license has been obtained (nor would one likely be granted unless the RSA key exchange were shortened to 512 bits and the symmetric cipher changed to something weaker than DES. There are some suggestions that this situation may change now that Clinton is in office.) The author requests in the README file that this law not be violated: #Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution #outside of the USA or Canada. This is a personal request from me, #the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM. Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is included with the distribution. You should read it before using RIPEM. RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent residents in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README file for info. Note that the non-RSAREF portion of RIPEM is not a product of RSA Data Security, Incorporated; they merely are helping distribute it. RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its ""home site"" on ripem.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents. To find out how to obtain access, FTP there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file GETTING_ACCESS. For convenience, binaries for many architectures are available here in addition to the full source tree. 3) Will RIPEM run on my machine? Probably. It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.) Ports to Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt. More ports are expected, and help of users is invited. 4) Will RIPEM work with my mailer? Probably. How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though. The users guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH. Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU Emacs. If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure, and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem. 5) What is RSA? RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key. This means that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to decrypt. Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other, you may publish your encryption, or public, key widely and keep your decryption, or private, key to yourself. Anyone can use your public key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to decrypt it. Note that the ""message"" sent with RSA is normally just the DES key to the real plaintext. (See ""What is DES?"") Note that the above only provides for disclosure protection. For originator authenticity, message integrity, and non-repudiation of origin services to be implemented, the fingerprint of the message (See ""What is a fingerprint, like MD5?"") is encrypted with the sender's private key. The recipient, or a dispute-resolving authority, can use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm that the message must have come from the sender and was not altered. RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who invented it. To find out lots more about RSA and modern cryptography in general, ftp to rsa.com and look in pub/faq/. Some information also may be in sci.crypt. 6) What is DES? DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or secret-key, crypto system. Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to encrypt and decrypt messages. However, DES is much faster than RSA. RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts your mail with DES using that key. It then encrypts that key with the recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter, allowing the recipient to recover the DES key. DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a key length considered too short by modern standards. However, it should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large corporation or government agency. It is not likely that the PEM standard will incorporate support for other symmetric ciphers in the near future, because there is a strong feeling that PEM should be stable so it can become utilized widely without early problems with interoperability. 7) What is a fingerprint, like MD5? MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc. It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash, of the plaintext. It is cryptographically secure because it is not possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint. Thus, instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key, only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication. MD5s can also be exchanged directly for authentication; for example, RIPEM public keys include an MD5 of the public key in the file, so parties wishing to confirm their keys are authentic via a separate channel merely need exchange MD5s of keys and verify their accuracy. MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a passphrase interpreter or cookie generator. MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in RFC 1321. There have been some recent suggestions that MD5 may not be as strong a hash as was originally believed; presumably some other hash function will be used if this is accepted as true. 8) What is PEM? PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a standard for allowing transfer of encrypted electronic mail generated over a long period of time by a working group of experts. It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115. RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not handle at this time. Their addition is planned. 9) What's this about distributing and authenticating keys? For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know your public key. For you to be able to confirm that the message received came from her, you must know her public key. It is important that this information be accurate; if a ""bad guy"" convinces her that his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read. RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server, the distributed finger servers, and a flat file. All three are described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution. None of them provide perfect security. The PEM standard calls for key management by certificates; the addition of this feature to RIPEM is planned, but chicken-egg issues still exist. 10) Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM? This issue has been considered in the standards process. RFC 1310, the specification for Internet standards, has a discussion (section 6) on what specifications for nondiscriminatory availability must be met for a patented method to be included in a standard. RFC 1421 addresses this issue with regard to the patents covering public-key cryptography. This does not, of course, mean that all questions are settled or that everyone is in agreement. An interesting exchange on the use of patented algorithms in standards with regard to public-key cryptography is in the League for Programming Freedom archive (available via FTP: ftp.uu.net:/doc/lpf) in the files bidzos.letter and bidzos.response. (Amusingly, the LPF files on ftp.uu.net are compressed with a patented algorithm.) 11) What about RSADSI/PKP? RSA Data Security, Inc. (RSADSI) is a California-based company specializing in cryptographic technologies. Public Key Partners is a firm which holds exclusive sub-licensing rights of the following U.S. patents and all of their corresponding foreign patents: Cryptographic Apparatus and Method (""Diffie-Hellman"")............................... No. 4,200,770 Public Key Cryptographic Apparatus and Method (""Hellman-Merkle"").................... No. 4,218,582 Cryptographic Communications System and Method (""RSA"")................................... No. 4,405,829 Exponential Cryptographic Apparatus and Method (""Hellman-Pohlig"").................... No. 4,424,414 PKP claims these four patents cover all known methods of public key cryptography. The two businesses are rather closely related (for example, the same person, Jim Bidzos, is president of both of them.) PKP has licensed this technology to a considerable number of companies (IBM, DEC, Motorola, AT&T, Lotus...) for use in their products. PKP has also threatened and filed lawsuits defending their patents. RIPEM was originally created with no connection to RSADSI other than its use of the RSAREF library, and for no reason other than its author's desire to see widespread use of public-key cryptography. However, after the ball started rolling, people at RSADSI got interested. RSADSI decided to carry RIPEM on its FTP site, and some people there started making their own RIPEM keys and contributing code. RIPEM even won the ""Best Application Built on RSAREF in 1992"" award. 12) Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar? RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS (Public-Key Cryptography Standards) identifier describing various characteristics about the key, so the first bunch of characters in your key may be the same as those of lots of other people's keys. This does not mean your keys are similar, but only that they are the same class of key, were generated with the same program, are of the same length, etc. 13) What is PGP? PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy. PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently. PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA. A few major differences between PGP and RIPEM: - PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without a direct network connection. - RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability of working with other PEM software. PGP makes no attempt to be compatible with anything other than itself. - RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSADSI which comes with a license allowing noncommercial use. PGP uses its own implementation of RSA. PKP claims that it is a violation of its patents to ""make, use or sell"" PGP in the U.S. or Canada without either a license or written permission. (See: ""DISCLAIMER"") (See: ""What about RSADSI/PKP?"") Phil Zimmermann, the author of PGP, stopped distributing it after being threatened with legal action; he believed that a licensing scheme could be arranged, but it hasn't happened and there seems little prospect of it happening in the future. He acknowledges in the PGP User's Guide: #In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency, #you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public #Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software. PGP is #contraband. - Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside the U.S. and Canada without an export license. However, PGP already exists on many ftp sites in Europe and other places. Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues. Unfortunately, it's not distributed separately from the program, which can be difficult to find in the U.S. on FTP sites due to liability concerns. 14) What about RPEM? RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail. It was similar to RIPEM, but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in an attempt to avoid the patents on public-key systems. It was written by Mark Riordan, who later wrote RIPEM. Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many (including Rabin), PKP claimed that their patents were broad enough to cover the cipher employed. This claim is not universally accepted, but was not challenged for pragmatic reasons. RPEM is not really used anymore. It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP. 15) What is MIME? MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is described in RFC 1341. You can find out about it in the newsgroup comp.mail.mime; a FAQ exists on it. How PEM should interact with MIME is not yet entirely clear; some people use the stopgap solution of having a MIME type application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM messages as MIME ones. I hope some standards will emerge. Draft Internet documents exist on the matter. 16) What is TIS/PEM? Trusted Information Systems is working on a version of Privacy Enhanced Mail for general availability. Last I heard, it was rumored to be integrated into an existing mail user agent (MH) rather than a stand-alone system, and in beta test. I don't know much more than that. 17) I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM... You may wish to check the companion post ""ripem-attacks"" which discusses some of the more obvious attacks on RIPEM's security and what procedures will minimize the risk. RIPEM's main ""weak area"" is probably key distribution. ",11 "Re: Moonbase race, NASA resources, why? In article <1993Apr21.210712.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >> So how much would it cost as a private venture, assuming you could talk the >> U.S. government into leasing you a couple of pads in Florida? > >Why must it be a US Government Space Launch Pad? Directly I mean... In fact, you probably want to avoid US Government anything for such a project. The pricetag is invariably too high, either in money or in hassles. The important thing to realize here is that the big cost of getting to the Moon is getting into low Earth orbit. Everything else is practically down in the noise. The only part of getting to the Moon that poses any new problems, beyond what you face in low orbit, is the last 10km -- the actual landing -- and that is not immensely difficult. Of course, you *can* spend sagadollars (saga- is the metric prefix for beelyuns and beelyuns) on things other than the launches, but you don't have to. The major component of any realistic plan to go to the Moon cheaply (for more than a brief visit, at least) is low-cost transport to Earth orbit. For what it costs to launch one Shuttle or two Titan IVs, you can develop a new launch system that will be considerably cheaper. (Delta Clipper might be a bit more expensive than this, perhaps, but there are less ambitious ways of bringing costs down quite a bit.) Any plan for doing sustained lunar exploration using existing launch systems is wasting money in a big way. Given this, questions like whose launch facilities you use are *not* a minor detail; they are very important to the cost of the launches, which dominates the cost of the project. -- All work is one man's work. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology - Kipling | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Re: ALL-TIME BEST PLAYERS In article <1993Apr15.125205.29853@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu) writes: >In article <1993Apr14.173428.12056@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes: >> >In article <1993Apr13.115313.17986@bsu-ucs>, 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu >> > writes... >> >>I've recently been working on project to determine the greatest >> >>players at their respective postions. >> >>2B Career >What about U. Johnny Hodapp, the greatest 2nd baseman in Cleveland Indians >history? 225 hits in 1930, consistantly over .300. A great, great second baseman. Um, the header said *career.* Hodapp managed about 3000 PA in his nine years in the majors. As for his ""consistently over .300,"" make that ""three years in a row, preceded by a part-time year, plus his last year, with Boston."" Hodapp only qualified for the batting title five times. Was he injured? He retired right around his 28th birthday. Anyway, Hodapp put up flashy numbers the year *everybody* put up flashy numbers. That was his only really good year with a bat; his other .300 years were marred by a lack of power and an inability to draw walks. Only 163 of those 3000 PA were bases on balls, which does not describe a feared hitter. On the other hand, he was part of the long line of famous Cleveland 2B: Wambsganss, Riggs Stephenson, etc. Roger > >Jon ""Johnny"" Hodapp >jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu >=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > ",9 "Dataproducts LZR1260 not printing correctly ---------- cut here ---------- part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H ! .1Y""QG%.9*0Y /@ , 3T5- M4T5455 N24Y&.T"" ""$+FC9@R(*""\F4-GRA@Y:>#0 4$$HITR>*$BI0G3%P4P5(DY\XF;\BD,9.F#!D04$'0*<,0A(LK M4(B@3>-QH L03,K8R>,UIU\%6UJZ(*,WS9@R77+:T %ERA I2:!0<4%$BA46 MB]GHD3/3!HRW<5F((#(T#!PY8>N,H3,'KQ8I(#K# &&'Q@T7,$1H'%W$2I(A M1:9 *3(DB9'?(OX""4$L! @H ""@ 8 \DH+&6P>WN!P!0 :Q0 L M @ \#$ $Q:4C$R-C N5U!$4$L! @H ""@ 8 0!EJ&$ER## M MMP$ $,8$ L @ B3< %!30U))4%0N1%)64$L! @H ""@ M $ Y'D+&<4YDI#D ^ P 0 @ W^X! $]%35-%5%50 :+DE.1E!+!08 P # *P #M[P$ end ---------- cut here ---------- -- _--_|\ Clive Mitchell ph: +61 9 4916384 / \ Regional Network Systems mitchell@telecomwa.oz.au >> *_.--._/ Perth , Western Australia v ",2 "cheap harddisks for your faithful PC/XT I have a few the original IBM 10Mb harddisks for sale. They are actually Seagate's ST412, MFM, full height, has the IBM logo and black face plate. Each disk is checked and formatted with DOS 6.0. It can be doubled to 20Mb or so with dblspace or stacker if you so desire. Have the original IBM foam fitted boxies and anti-static bags. I am not sure if they were ever used, but each drive that is sent out will be quarenteed in good working order. $30 each plus shipping cost, (about $5), If you have one of those old IBM XT or PCs, this is for you ! It's cheaper than a floppy drive ! ",6 "Re: Waco, they did it. ( MASADA ) fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >msn@reef.cis.ufl.edu (Mike 'HK G3ZF Full-Auto' Newsome) writes: >>> I'm sick to my stomach as I write this. The BD compound >>> is on fire, and will burn to the ground in minutes. >I used exactly this one-word reply, to suggest a likely ending to >the siege several weeks ago. But like Masada, this wasn't entirely >a government action: The defenders held out as long as they could, >and then killed themselves, their families and their children >rather than surrender. Israel calls the action of the Zelots >""heroic"", and trains their army to follow this example. Now that >someone has repeated this action in modern times, what do we call it? Liberals and supporters of Clinton say that costs made the action necessary. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Podleski | phone: 216-433-4000 NASA Lewis Research Center | Cleveland, Ohio 44135 | email: pspod@hooch.lerc.nasa.gov ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",16 "Re: eye dominance In article rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes: > >Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an >overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most >people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the >other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this? There is eye dominance same as handedness (and usually for the same side). It has nothing to do with refractive error, however. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Quotes requested I need quotes from Jefferson, Hamilton, Madison, or any of the other founders, that support the idea that the Second Amendment was written into the Constitution so that the populace could protect itself it the government began to degenerate into tyrrany. If you have any (with sources), please mail them to me. Thanks. -- __/\__ Jonathan S. Haas | Jake liked his women the way he liked \ / University of Michigan | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm- /_ _\ positron@eecs.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and \/ Finger for PGP 2.2 key | covered with short brown fuzzy hair. ",16 "Re: When is Apple going to ship CD300i's? Interestingly enough, the CDROM 300i that came with my Quadra 800 has only 8 disks: 1. System Install 2. Kodak Photo CD sampler 3. Alice to Ocean 4. CDROM Titles 5. Application Demos 6. Mozart: Dissonant Quartet 7. Nautilus 8. Apple Chronicles Has anyone else noticed that they got less than everyone seems to be getting with the external? What I really feel I missed out on is what is supposed to a fantastic Games demo disk. I have heard that people have gotten up to 9-10 disks with their drive. I assume they get the 8 titles above plus Cinderella and the Games Demo CDROM. any comments and experiences? Should I call Apple to complain? =) Derek thewho@plume.mit.edu ",4 "How does ""Differential Mode"" GPS work??? >I understand that the new GPS boxes now have an option >known as ""differential ready"". Apparently land-based >beacons tranmit GPS correction information to your GPS >receiver (with differential option installed). >How does this system work? What frequency is used for >the land-based beacons? >Thanks in advance, >Charlie Thompson >. Here's a rough sketch of how the system works. A reference station with a very exactly known position computes the errors in the incoming GPS signals. These errors are due to several factors including atmospheric distortion, SA (Selective Availability) time dithering, etc. The reference unit contains complex computational equipment to ""back out"" the errors in its position (since it knows where it is already). It then transmits these corrections on a broadcast which is available to any number of relatively local receivers. If the receivers are nearby (<300km) and are using the same satellites as the reference unit, the errors should be very similar for the reference unit and the receiver unit. Thus, the receiver unit may apply the corrections calculated by the reference unit. The US Coast Guard is currently (as far as I know) installing a series of coastline transmitters for differential GPS. These stations will use existing radio towers. I believe the frequency is to be approximately 305 kHz. There are many other private corporations offering DGPS signals on different frequencies. For example, PinPoint ((310)-618-7076) offers correction signals and receiver units using an FM broadcast system which has stations all across the US. The correction codes are usually transmitted using the RTCM 104 format. Advertised accuracies espouse 1 to 5 meter errors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John P. Baker | My opinions are my own. I don't know Johns Hopkins University | anyone else who wants them, anyway. Applied Physics Laboratory | Laurel, MD 20723 | bakerjp1@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",12 "Re: Honors Degrees: Do they mean anything? What has this got to do with comp.windows.x? _,_ (o o) -oo0-\_/-0oo-------------------------------------------------------------- Justin Kibell - Systems Programmer - XMelba Project Team - C.A.T.T. Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute - Melbourne - Vic. Internet: jck@jaguar.catt.citri.edu.au Phone: +61 03 282 2456 Australia ",5 "Re: Looking for Electronics Dept Info in Austrailia hjkim@hyowon.pusan.ac.kr (Hojoong Kim) writes: >Hi Netters! >I am looking for the list of universities in Austrailia, which has electronics department. >I am considering to spend a year for research in Austrailia about communication area.ýé I am interested in Mobile communication areas and spread spectrum communications etc. >But I don't have any information about Austrailian Universities. >Can anybody recommend a good university in coûßmmunic÷³ation area? >Any comments will be welcomed! Can I suggest the University of Western Australia in Perth. The weathers great, the people are great and our Electronic Engineering department is great. I am a first year student here ... so I don't know much about what projects but I do know they have a good reputation in the fields of dsp and communications. Ever heard of QPSX? The people who own are ex-UWA ... so that gives an indication of what the department is like. For more information email: yianni@swanee.ee.uwa.edu.au with the above request and he should be able to tell some more info or write Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering University of Western Australia Stirling Highway CRAWLEY 6009 Western Australia Australia Yours Mark mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au -- #***********************************************************************# # Mark Tearle | # # | # email: mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au | ",12 "Re: Help: Importing .EPS files into Word 2.0 jburke@abacus.bates.edu (jburke) writes: >I was wondering if anyone knew how to view a .EPS in Ms Word 2.0a.. >Here are the first couple of lines if it helps... >%!PS-Adobe-3.0 >%%Creator: ProWrite >%%Title: TCWN >%%Orientation: Portrait >%%Pages: 12 >%%PageOrder: Ascend >Can any one Help? >________________________________________________________________________ >| James Burke | By reading this you agree not to hold | >| | the writer responsible for any evil | >| jburke@abacus.bates.edu | happening that may befall you at any time. | >------------------------------------------------------------------------ We had a similar problem in converting a .EPS file. The solution was simple. We changed the first line from %!PS-Adobe-3.0 to %!PS-Adobe-2.0 This fouled the converter, the .EPS file only contained very simple move and draw statements. Mario -- Mario Veraart TNO Physics and Electronics Laboratory email: rioj7@fel.tno.nl The Hague The Netherlands ""If all else fails, show pretty pictures and animated videos, and don't talk about performance"", David Bailey ",2 "Re: Societal basis for morality References: <4fm9iYO00iV303voYt@andrew.cmu.edu> Bruce Salem (salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU) wrote: : >If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? : Because social pressure is the most powerful force known to : man. How can you disprove a contention that the richeousness of : established religion is anything other than social convention? One : way is to assert that there are moral universals. But that is not : the same thing as asserting that these universials owe their origen : to trancendance or the supernatural or to dieties. : >What right do : >we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally mandated morality? : We expect empathy from our fellow man. We expect to raise each : generation with values that we live by, those which assure that mistakes : we have made are not repeated. Do you think that mere authority checks : all tendancies which are disruptive of civilized life? I think not! In fact : authority is power, and power corrupts. The most powerful tend to think : that they are above the law that applies to everybody else. Religious : authority, theocarcy, has not mitigated this any better than other : power structures on this score and it seems that because there are no : checks on power concentrated in clergy or nobility that the abuses : recorded by history are greater. : We live and teach morals by setting an example, starting in : the home. This does not come from books or authority figures in : soceity. If people are weak or confused at the present time it is : not because the breakup of the family has been precipitated by some : mysterious moral decidance that redidication to traditional formulas : will repair. That is but magical and simplistic thinking. We need to : look at forces in the way we live, even the good things that happen : in our present culture, that are weakening the family as the primary : means we have to teach children values. Of course people are trying : to have the community do things that once were done in the family : alone. This may not be as effective. We need to look at this. .. : Laying down the law, and with teeth, doesn't stop the crazy : man from murdering your brother despite the morality or the law. It : may help you with dealing promptly with him after the fact, but it : may not be very effective for preventing mental illness or cracy people : from murduring. Bruce, It seems like you are advocating social change based on your concept of human nature, and that concept seems pretty Utopian. It's obvious from even a cursory study of history that no system, regardless of the authority it may claim for its basis, will make people act any better. Until human nature changes, the products of our nature won't change, and that has to include society. I think your assessment of human potential in this regard is too optimistic. What is needed is an absolute moral standard if -all- people are to create any Utopias. By implying a Utopian future, you also argue for an absolute standard that applies to everyone in every case. I realize that you may not acknowledge the connection, but it's there. Bill ",0 "Re: Symbiotics: Idiots-Antisemitism In article <1483500355@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research writes: >From: Center for Policy Research > >Zionism and the Holocaust >-------------------------- by Haim Bresheeth > >The first point to note regarding the appropriation of the history >of the Holocaust by Zionist propaganda is that Zionism without >anti-semitism is impossible. Zionism agrees with the basic tenet >of anti-Semitism, namely that Jews cannot live with non- Jews. Wrong. Zionism *acknowledges* the fact that anti-Semites exist, and prevent Jews from living in peace. That does not mean we agree that Jews are all greedy, that Jews kill Christian Children, commited deicide, or anything else. We acknowledge that there are morons out there who do believe these things. Adam Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu ""If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."" -John Perry Barlow ",17 "Is this a SWIM or a IWM ? It used to live in a 1990 SE, and is marked 344-0062, and the ROMs that go with it are 341-0701 & 2. Is this the solution to the person who wants to upgrade to FDHD ? cheers Mike. ",4 "Re: What the clipper nay-sayers sound like to me. Nathaniel Sammons (ns111310@LANCE.ColoState.Edu) wrote on Mon, 19 Apr 1993 02:36:36 GMT: > If the gov establishes a cryptography standard that has to be used by > everyone, and everyone's personal key is divided into two segments > and stored at two separate, albeit easy to find places, and that key is > only 80 bits to begin with, we are screwed (pardon the allusion to the > affore-mentioned article)! > The gov, I believe, as do many others probably already have the cracking chips > for this Clipper Chip made. Hell, they probably based the encoder on the > chip that cracks it, that way it's easier to break the code, but since it is a > classified algorythm, no one knows that they can crack it so easily. Agreed. No agency such as the NSA (or whoever) would approve the public release of a crypto-system, if they didn't already have the technical means or the know-how to decrypt everything at their whim. Surely the whole point of all this madness is to make Joe Public think that his/her communications will be kept safe, while James Bond at the NSA can, if need be, have full, decrypted access to someone's communications? That'll be quite a heist, if they can pull it off. I thought that the US Government were going to release the algorithm to a panel of ""carefully chosen experts"", who would then ""study it deeply, and report their findings""? Exactly who will these people be? Academics? Or Government-sponsored researchers? Tiny-toons? > I, for one, and quite scared of this kind of thing, and plan to support > organizations (and even disorganizations) who are fighting against this > Clipper Chip in any way that I can. I can only hope that the same sort of thing doesn't start filtering over into the ears of the UK Government, and if the European Parliament gets wind of it, well, we can kiss goodbye to any form of Democracy in Europe at all. > I do not want the government to be able to have access, even with a search > warrant, to my keys... and I don't want those keys to be only 80 bits long > to begin with! Hallelujah! :-) -- Rick M. Tait Bell Northern Research Europe Tel: +44-81-945-3352, Fax: +44-81-945-3352 Network Management Systems New Southgate, London. UK email: ricktait@bnr.co.uk || rt@cix.compulink.co.uk || ricktait@bnr.ca ",11 "VGA card/1 meg wanted it must have 1 meg memory and support res. 1024x768 (even higher will be better)if it has 9 & 15 pin ports and also supports ega/cga , that's better. I will pay $30 + $1 (shipping) for it. let me knoe if u have one like this. ailin 803-654-8817 ",6 "Re: Jewish Baseball Players? In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes: >Just wondering. A friend and I were talking the other day, and >we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish >baseball players, past and present. We weren't able to come up >with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and It's Stankiewicz, not Stankowitz, and he's not Jewish - he's Polish (by the way, the correct pronunciation - according to Stanky himself, is ""ston-KEV-itch"". all the sportscasters get it wrong) >maybe John Lowenstein. Can anyone come up with any more. I know >it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but >humor us. Thanks for your help. The only other Jewish ballplayer I can think of is Ron Blomberg, who is best known as being the first DH to appear in a major league ballgame. -Alan ",9 "Re: TIFF file viewer needed In article <1993May17.061914.22239@cs.sfu.ca> chapman@cs.sfu.ca (John Chapman) writes: >Hello - I am in need of a file viewer for 24 bit TIFF images, to run under > windows (3.1 if it matters); alternatively a package to run an > X-server on top of windows would do very well. Unfortunately the > budget for this is limited so whatever I end up using has to be > public domain or very inexpensive. Thanks in advance for any help, > > john > > > >chapman@cs.sfu.ca > > PaintShop Pro for Windows is a fantastic product. It can handle TIFF, GIF, BMP, PCX, and many other formats, displaying them and converting between them. There is a shareware version of the program; I assume it's available in the Windows areas of the standard anonymous FTP locations (I'd try ftp.cica.indiana.edu). Log in as ftp, use your username as a password, and look for a program called PSP101.exe or something like that. I have the registered version, and the only major difference I can detect is that the unregistered version pops up a message when you start the program asking you to please register it. Once again, FANTASTIC software. Up to 24 bits, huge images, everything. -Brian -- Brian Kasper, AKA Prisoner 655321 | ""My hovercraft is full of eels."" The Aerospace Corporation | Internet: kasper@aerospace.aero.org | ",2 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes: >But is it any worse than the current unsecure system? It becomes much >worse, of course, if the government then uses this ""Clinton Clipper"" >to argue for restrictions on unapproved encryption. (This is the main >concern of most of us, I think. The camel's nose in the tent, etc.) Excuse me? This has *already* happened. There's a couple of humps in the tent already. Ask the folks at Qualcomm what became of the non-trivial encryption scheme they proposed for use in their CDMA digitial cellular phone standard? There *already* are restrictions in place. Louis Mamakos ",11 "Re: ALT.SEX.STORIES under Literary Critical Analysis :-) In article <1qevbh$h7v@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) wrote: > I'm going to try to do something here, that perhaps many would > not have thought even possible. I want to begin the process of > initiating a literary critical study of the pornography posted on > alt.sex.stories, to identify the major themes and motifs present > in the stories posted there -- opening up then the possibility of > an objective moral evaluation of the material present there. Dennis, I'm astounded. I didn't know you were interested to even study such filth as alt.sex.stories provide... Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",19 "PD apps for displaying 3D data sets The subject line says it all really, I'm looking for a PD application which will just handle the displaying of 3D data sets (images) in cross section, or any pointers to code which will aid in the development of such a system. Thanks in advance Keith Marlow -- Keith Marlow,SYS P/G,UEA,Norwich * Phone Cyclone BBS on 0603 260973; Arc,Beeb Norwich. Norfolk NR4 7TJ * PC files + fidonet echoes + charts + Acorn Archiboard Central 2:254/405.3 * Support Area + radio info : Archiboard s/w Voice - 0603 745077 ### Tried MS-DOS once.. but didn't inhale ## ",5 "Re: Faith and Dogma tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley) writes: >Faith and dogma are irrational. The faith and dogma part of any religion >are responsible for the irrationality of the individuals. I disagree. In the end, the *individual* is responsible for his/her own irrationality. The individual's belief in some dogmatic religion is a symptom of that irrationality. >Have you noticed that philosophers tend to be atheists? Atheists and agnostics, I would imagine, but yes, that was my point. An atheist would theoretically be just as ill-equipped to study the philosophy of religion as a Christian, and yet there is a persistence of atheists among the ranks of philosophers. Therefore, the conflict between one's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) and the ability to be a philosopher must not be as great as you assert. The fact that most philosophers may be non-religious was a secondary point. >Science, (as would be practiced by atheists) in contrast, has a >BUILT IN defence against faith and dogma. As opposed to science practiced by theists? Be careful here. Science does have a built-in defence against faith and dogma: skepticism. Unfortunately, it is not foolproof. There is that wonderful little creature known as the ""theory."" Many of us believe in the theory of evolution. We have no absolute proof that this theory is true, so why do we believe it? Because it ""makes more sense than...?"" There is quite a bit of faith involved here. >A scientist holds sacred the idea that beliefs should change to >suit whatever is the best information available at the time, AND, >*AND*, ****AND***, a scientist understands that any current beliefs >are deficient in some way. Well, not ALL current beliefs are deficient, but basically I agree. >Can you see the difference? Science views beliefs as being flawed, >and new information can be obtained to improve them. Ideally, this is true. In reality, though, you have to acknowledge that scientists are human. Scientists have egos and biases. Some scientists assume a particular theory is true, refuse to admit the flaws in that theory because of ego problems or whatever, and proceed to spend their time and money trying to come up with absolute proof for the theory. Remember cold fusion? >>By the way, I wasn't aware mass suicide >>was a problem. Waco and Jonestown were isolated incidents. >>Mass suicides are far from common. > >Clinton and the FBI would love for you to convince them of this. >It would save the US taxpayer a lot of money if you could. Not really. I agree that we spent far too much money on the Waco crisis ($7,500,000 I believe), especially considering the outcome. My point was that mass suicides in the U.S. are rare (Jonestown was in Guyana, incidentally, although we footed the bill for the clean-up), and the U.S. has far more important issues to address. Compare the number of U.S. citizens who have died in mass suicides with, say, the number of U.S. soldiers who died during one week of the Vietnam War and you will see my point. -- --- __ _______ --- ||| Kevin Marshall \ \/ /_ _/ Computer Science Department ||| ||| Virginia Tech \ / / / marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu ||| --- Blacksburg, Virginia \/ /_/ (703) 232-6529 --- ",0 "Re: Atheist's views on Christianity (was: Re: ""Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."") - soc.religion.christian #16242 In article , trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes: > norris@athena.mit.edu writes: > > For example: why does the universe exist at all? > > Must there be a ""why"" to this? I ask because of what you also > assume about God-- namely, that He just exists, with no ""why"" > to His existence. So the question is reversed, ""Why can't > we assume the universe just exists as you assume God to > ""just exist""? Why must there be a ""why"" to the universe?"" Whether there is a ""why"" or not we have to find it. This is Pascal's(?) wager. If there is no why and we spend our lives searching, then we have merely wasted our lives, which were meaningless anyway. If there is a why and we don't search for it, then we have wasted our potentially meaningful lives. Suppose the universe is 5 billion years old, and suppose it lasts another 5 billion years. Suppose I live to be 100. That is nothing, that is so small that it is scary. So by searching for the ""why"" along with my friends here on earth if nothing else we aren't so scared. What if you woke up at a party, with no memory, and everyone was discussing who the host might be? There might not be a host, you say. I say let's go find him, the party's going to be over sometime, maybe he'll let us stay. Because we recognize our own mortality we have to find the ""why"". > ... > Well, then, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism, > Zoerasterism, Shintoism, and Islam should fit this bit of logic > quite nicely... :-) All have depth, all have enduring values, > thus all must be true... This is a good point. But more of a good point for studying religion than ignoring it. Some Christians disagree with me, but it is worthwhile to study different religions and philosophies and glean the truth from them. To quote (of course out of context) ""Test everything and keep what is true."" Chris Mussack ",15 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... This is a two-sided problem. Unfortunately our culture has been deteriorating over time. The ""breeding"" of these low-life's is getting worse; our justice system is at best extremely weak to handle these problems. That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is imminent. My Camaro (my pride and joy) got stolen right out of my driveway a few years back. The persons that did that were eventually caught (lucky for me!) but not before having trashed the car. On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in a small motel for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were disturbing my car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and another tenant walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left. Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly! Steve Heracleous ",7 "Re: Young Catchers mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said: >In article <7975@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes: >>mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said: >>> >>>We know that very, very few players at this age make much of an impact >>>in the bigs, especially when they haven't even played AAA ball. >> >>Yes. But this is *irrelevant*. You're talking about averages, when we >>have lots of information about THIS PLAYER IN PARTICULAR to base our >>decisions on. > >Do you really have *that* much information on him? Really? I don't personally, but Clay just posted it. Yes, we do. Unfortunately, it shows that Lopez wasn't as good an example as Nieves would have been, since his last year numbers were out of line with the previous years (which I didn't have access to). The point remains, though; knowing a guy's minor league history is as good as knowing his major league history, if you know how to read it. >>Why isn't Lopez likely to hit that well? He hit that well last year (after >>adjusting his stats for park and league and such); he hit better (on an >>absolute scale) than Olson or Berryhill did. By a lot. > >I don't know. You tell me. What percentage of players reach or >exceed their MLE's *in their rookie season*? We're talking about >1993, you know. The MLE is not a *projection*, it's an *equivalence*. It's a ""this is how well he hit *last* year, in major league terms"" rating. So, in essence, he has *already* reached it. I would guess (Bob? Clay?) that essentially half of all players surpass their previous MLEs in their rookie seasons. Maybe more than half, since all of these players are young and improving. >If that were your purpose, maybe. Offerman spent 1992 getting >acclimated, if you will. The Dodgers as a team paid a big price >that season. Did they? Offerman may have been the difference between 4th or 5th place and last place, but no more. >Perhaps they will reap the benefits down the road. >Do you really think they would have done what they did if they >were competing for a pennant? Sure; they didn't have anyone better. I suppose they might have gutted the farm system to acquire Jay Bell or Spike Owen or somebody if they were really in contention. >>The point was not that 17 AB is a significant sample, but rather that he >>hadn't done anything in spring training to cause even a blockhead manager >>to question whether his minor league numbers were for real, or to send him >>down ""until he gets warmed up"". > >For a stat-head, I'm amazed that you put any credence in spring >training. If you'd read what I wrote, you'd be less amazed. Nowhere do I claim to put any credence in spring training. Quite the contrary; I said that Lopez hadn't done anything that even the bozos who *do* put credence in spring training could interpret as ""failure"". Just because I think spring training numbers are meaningless doesn't mean that Bobby Cox does; it's just a case of ruling out one possible explanation for sending Lopez down. >>>The kid *will* improve playing at AAA, >> >>Just like Keith Mitchell did? > >Wait a minute. I missed something here. Keith Mitchell did very very well at AA, AAA, and the majors over a season, then did very, very poorly for a year in AAA. -- David M. Tate | (i do not know what it is about you that closes posing as: | and opens; only something in me understands e e (can | the pocket of your glove is deeper than Pete Rose's) dy) cummings | nobody, not even Tim Raines, has such soft hands ",9 "Re: Recommendations for a Local BUS (Cache Penio Penev (penev@rockefeller.edu) wrote: > >I have a Maxtor 212MB on an ISA IDE controller, although my machine is >DX2/66 VLB. I has the save transfer rate of 0.647 MB/s regardless of >the variations of the ISA bus speed. I tested it with speed between >5.5MHz and 8.33MHz. Not _any_ difference. The problem is not the >interface between the controller and the memory. > Chris Brinton (brinton@icd.teradyne.com) wrote: : I also have a DX2/66 and a Maxtor 212. I have a local bus IDE controller (generic) and I get : 985 KB/s. I tried swapping my local bus IDE controller for an ISA IDE controller and my : transfer rate went to 830 KB/s. The specs for this drive show a maximum platter to controller : transfer rate of 2.83 MB/s. I dont know how to get there from here. The local bus interface : got me a little, but certainly not as much as I had hoped. I am also looking for a way to What is the deal with the IDE transfer rates? Is anybody getting throughput anywhere close to the platter->controller rate? I haven't seen anything even close to the 5MB/sec limit of the IDE interface. These drives are 1:1 (non-interleaved), aren't they? Here are the rates I get: 1) sequential read (MSDOS C program that uses bios calls to read 64-sector blocks sequentially from outside (first) track inward) 8mhz bus 10mhz bus -------- --------- MAXTOR LXT340: 860KB/sec 976KB/sec QUANTUM LPS240: 862KB/sec 887KB/sec 2) disk buffer read (same C program, but re-reads the same block repeatedly so in effect is reading the RAM buffer on the drive) 8mhz bus 10mhz bus -------- --------- MAXTOR LXT340: 1046KB/sec 1212KB/sec QUANTUM LPS240: 1015KB/sec 1276KB/sec 3) CORETEST V2.7 transfer rate (seems to agree with (2) above) 8mhz bus 10mhz bus -------- --------- MAXTOR LXT340: 1051KB/sec 1224KB/sec QUANTUM LPS240: 1026KB/sec 1298KB/sec I managed to get hold of the QUANTUM LPS240AT product manual and it goes into excrutiating detail describing how the bits get from the platter, through the controller, and out the IDE interface. Nowhere do I see anything like ""after the bits are whipped of the platter at high speed they sit around in a buffer to thaw before they are sent to the host"" (even though I SWEAR that's whats happening ;->). Here are some relevent quotes from the manual: ""Data is transferred from the disk to the read buffer at a rate of 3.75 MB/s maximum, 1.87MB/s minimum."" (My calculations show 3121KB/sec maximum and 1578KB/sec minimum... disk spins at 4306 RPM with 87 sectors per track on the outside and 44 on the inside) ""Single burst errors of up to 24 bits within one sector can be corrected 'on-the-fly', in real time as they occur, allowing a high degree of data integrity with no impact to the drive's performance."" (I take this to mean error correction isn't the bottleneck) ""For page-mode operations, the data-transfer rate to and from the buffer RAM is up to 10.0 MB/s. This high transfer rate allows the AT Interface IC to communicate over the AT bus at a data-transfer rate of 5.0 MB/s, while the DCS simultaneously controls disk-to-RAM transfers"" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ So the thing can even do it's cache pre-fetch WHILE it's sending the requested sector (it has 3 64KB read buffers for pre-fetching, I guess you could call that a cache :-|). So when I do a sequential read on the outer tracks, WHY am I getting a measly 862KB/sec when I should be getting around 3MB/sec??? Any of you hard-disk engineers out there know? Wondering why my disks are so slow, David o o --------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------------------------------------------- David Stam Linux: The choice of a GNU generation stam@netcom.com 386-un*x-X11R5-Openlook-gcc-TeX-FREE! ",3 "Vandalizing the sky From: ""Phil G. Fraering"" > > Finally: this isn't the Bronze Age, [..] > please try to remember that there are more human activities than > those practiced by the Warrior Caste, the Farming Caste, and the > Priesthood. Right, the Profiting Caste is blessed by God, and may freely blare its presence in the evening twilight .. -- * Fred Baube (tm) ",14 "Re: Paxil (request) 880506s@dragon.acadiau.ca (James R. Skinner) writes: > > I have seen a couple of postings refering to an SRI called paxil. I >have been on Prozac for a number of years and recently switched to Zolf. I >have seen a bit of comparsion of Prozac to Paxil but none on Zolft to Prozac >Can some one enlight me on the differences/ side effect profile/ etc... does anyone know? -- -----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------- James Robie Skinner | Jodrey School of Computer Science James.Skinner@dragon.acadiau.ca | Acadia University, Wolfville, NS, Canada -----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences? In article <2BD0BDC3.25868@news.service.uci.edu> raman@translab.its.uci.edu (Balaji V. Ramanathan) writes: > The part about spending $5000-7000 on repairs reminds me >of an article I read in a magazine comparing the 5 year ownership costs >of a Toyota Camry and a Ford Taurus or something like that. The result, >which they announced with great flourish was that it cost the same at the >end of the period. That was their argument to prove that you don't go >wrong buying the Ford Taurus over the Camry. > > Now, if I remember correctly, the Camry costs about $4000 or so more >in initial costs. Essentially, it means that you spend about $4000 extra >on repairs on the Taurus. That is ridiculous. Every time your car >needs repairs, it is extra hassles, loss of time and a dozen other things. >I would much rather spend $5000 more in initial costs than spend $4000 more >in repair costs. did you account for depreciation? i seriously doubt that a taurus would rack up an extra $4000 in repair costs over 5 years. -teddy ",7 "Re: A question about 120VAC outlet wiring.. olsen@vetmed.cvm.uiuc.edu (Aart_Olsen) writes: >>|> I noticed at the fusebox that some circuits have the >>|> 12/2 with ground, and that on these circuits, the ground >>|> wire was tied to the same bus as the neutral (white) wire. >> >>This is contrary to the electrical code and should be fixed. >> >Sorry, but this is exactly according to the NEC. No need to be sorry, I blew it on this one. At the main breaker box where there is a thick wire ground leading to the earth, both neutral and ground are hooked to this bus. In any other breaker box (or an outlet box, etc.) the ground and neutral must not be connected together. ",12 "Re: Stolen AARGHHHH..... ""dam9543"" == dam9543 writes: dam9543> I get back drom work today, look at me bike before dam9543> proceding in-side. I nearly shit, my new DRY RIDER cover is dam9543> gone! Barely two weeks old, and already gone, GOD-AM Somebody stole my trashed old Honda red/white/blue cover off a KZ440LTD in residential Palo Alto a couple of weeks ago. The cover had *holes* burnt in it around the exhaust, etc etc. I figured it was just kids, but maybe not... -- jet@netcom.com -- J. Eric Townsend -- '92 R100R, DoD# (hafta kill you...) This is my fun account -- work email goes to jet@nas.nasa.gov ""You got to put down the ducky if you wanna play saxophone."" Skate UNIX or die, boyo. ",8 "SSRT Roll-Out Speech SSRT ROLLOUT Speech Delivered by Col. Simon P. Worden, The Deputy for Technology, SDIO Mcdonnell Douglas - Huntington Beach April 3,1993 Most of you, as am I, are ""children of the 1960's."" We grew up in an age of miracles -- Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles, nuclear energy, computers, flights to the moon. But these were miracles of our parent's doing. For a decade and more the pundits have told us - ""you've lost it!"" The ""me"" generation is only living on the accomplishments of the past. You and I have even begun to believe the pessimists. We listen in awe as the past generation tells of its triumphs. Living history they are. We are privileged to hear those who did it tell of it. A few weeks ago some of this very team listened in awe as General Bernie Schriever told of his team's work - and yes struggle - to build this nation's Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. What stories can we tell? Blurry-eyed telescopes? Thousand dollar toilet seats? Even our space launch vehicles hearken only of that past great time. They are and seem destined to remain Gen. Schriever's ICBMs. I find it hard to swell with pride that the best new space-lifter idea is to refurbish old Minuteman and Poseidon ballistic missiles. Well - The pessimists are wrong. The legacy is continuing. This event is proof. To our technological parents: We've listened to your stories. We've caught your enthusiasm and can-do spirit. And we've learned from your achievements - and your mistakes. Let me honor one of you who was part of that history and the impetus behind this history - Max Hunter. You are one of the greatest engineers of the firts great age of space exploration. Your insight and discipline built the Thor ICBM - later incorporated into today's most successful launch vehicle - The Delta. You told us in the 60's that a new form of launch vehicle - a single stage reusable rocket - can and should be built. You advocated this idea tirelessly. It was elegantly simple, as are all great breakthroughs. You showed us how to build it. You convinced us it could be done. You are working by our side to weld its components into place. Most important - you reminded us of a prime engineering principle - undoubtably one you learned from the generation before you - the generation that built transcontinental aviation in the 1920's and 30's - build a little and test a little and Max, you passed all of this on to people like Pat Ladner who started this program for the SDI. Douglas Aircraft didn't start with a DC-10. They didn't even start with a DC-3. Our grandfathers built a little, tested a little - even sold a little and made a little money - before they moved on to the next step. They didn't take a decade or more before putting the first ""rubber on the road."" Max Hunter - you didn't take ten years to build Thor, and by God we're not going to take ten years to show that low cost, single stage, reusable aerospace transportation is real. We ended the cold war in a few short years. It took the same team here today but a few years to show through the Strategic Defense Initiative that the cold war must end. We - you and us - launched a series of satellites - The Delta experiments - in about a year apiece. This, more than anything else signaled our commitment to end the impasse between ourselves and the Soviet Union. Those who made the decisions on both sides have underscored the importance of our work in bringing about a new international relationship. But it is the same team which is now putting in place the framework for an aerospace expansion that is our legacy for the next generation. We will make space access routine and affordable. We built this magnificent flying machine in two years. This summer a true rocket ship will take off and land on earth for the first time. Then we can and surely will build in the next three years a reusable sub-orbital rocket. It will allow us to use space rapidly, affordably, and efficiently as no other nation can. And yes - we'll make a little money off it too! Then - and only then - we'll spend another three years to build a fully reusable single stage to orbit system. The DC-3 of space will be a reality! We may even be able to use some of the rocket propulsion breakthroughs of our former cold war adversaries. What a wonderful irony if this SDI product and Russian efforts to counter SDI merge to power mankind's next step to the stars! To be sure, we must guard against the temptations to leap to the final answer. Robert Goddard's first rockets weren't Saturn V's! If we succumb to the temptation to ask for just a few extra dollars and a few more years to jump immediately to a full orbital system - we will fail. Max Hunter and his colleagues showed the way. Three years and a cloud of dust - in our case rocket exhausts. There is no short-cut. If we expect to reshape the world again - we must do it one brick at a time. Minds on tasks at hand! This project is real. The torch of American technological greatness is being passed. We are Americans. This machine is American. Let's go fly it! ",14 "Anti-aliasing utility wanted I am currently using POVRay on Mac and was wondering if anyone in netland knows of public domain anti-aliasing utilities so that I can skip this step in POV, very slow on this machine. Any suggestions, opinions about post-trace anti-aliasing would be greatly appreciated. Helmut Dotzlaw Dept. of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology University of Manitoba Winnipeg, Canada dotzlaw@ccu.umanitoba.ca ",1 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article <1993Apr21.150815.6657@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes: >In article Graham Toal writes: >>In article <2073@rwing.UUCP> pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes: >>:If the Clinton Clipper is so very good, why not make its algrithm public >>:so many people can exchange ideas and examine it, rather than a few >>:isolated 'respected experts' (respected by whom? for what? Perhaps a > >One more time... > > If they released the algorithm, it would be possible for someone > to come up with an implementation which was identical, but > lacking an escrowed key. > > Note that the press announcement mentioned that the algorithm was > being kept secret for security of the key escrow system. In this > case security means ""an escrowed key for EVERY clipper chip"". > > > Assuming you believed all that is said about the effective of > the algorithm, and the escrow system, which would you buy : > > (a) Chip from firm A with the escrowed key > (b) Second source chip from reputable firm B with no key > in government escrow. > > There would obviously be powerful economic incentives for a second > source, non escrowed, vendor. But what about second sources for pin-compatible non-Clipper algorithm chips that also have escrowed keys? If a ""reputable firm"" produces a chip (with escrowed key) that is a pop-in replacement for the Clipper chip in my phone, and uses an algorithm that is widely known and evaluated and ""trusted,"" then what's the problem? The Clipper is going to be reverse engineered anyway by any organization with sufficient resources (can you say ""billions of cocaine dollars?"") so those drug dealers they're so worried about will be slipping through the cracks. We law-abiding (non-incredibly-wealthy) citizens, naturally, will not have this recourse. But claiming that the algorithm can't be released to prevent people from using non-key-escrowed chips is plain deceitful... analysis of the chip output will provide information on the necessary headers and whatnot, so the ""bad guys"" could build chips using a *different* algorithm and still not escrow their keys. Or, they could just buy bunches of cheap phones at K-mart every week, and play Swap-the-Clipper-Chip with their cellular phone every day. Michael T. Palmer | ""A man is crazy who writes a secret in any m.t.palmer@larc.nasa.gov | other way than one which will conceal it RIPEM key on server | from the vulgar."" - Roger Bacon, 1220-1292 ",11 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? +>>They used a tank to knock a hole in the wall, and they released +>>non-toxic, non-flammable tear gas into the building. +> Non-toxic tear gas?!? Do you know what tear gas is? But Janet Reno says it was safe and non-debilitating, non-toxic tear gas. She is our Attorney General and she would not tell us this if it were not true. +> I do: once upon a time I happened to be in a room when someone threw +> a tear-gas grenade in (that was supposed to be a joke:). The sensation +> was incredible: I felt my eyes and nostrils were being torn apart. +> I remember us - a bunch of young men in our early 20's - running out +> like a herd of wild animals, knocking down the door and jumping +> out of the windows (thank G-d we were on the first floor). +> I can't imagine this kind of stuff being used against children. I really cant imagine anyone having the nerve to tell the public that the ""plan"" was that the gas was going to make all the mothers pick up their children and run out of the building. And yet this is exactly the story they were out pitching yesterday. ",18 "Video/Audio/Computer equipment for sale.. Time for some spring cleaning, so the following items are up for sale: Roland MT-32 Multi-Timbre Sound module. LA synthesis, upto 32 simultaneous voices, 128 preset timbres, 20-char backlit LCD display, MIDI in/out/thru, reference card, stereo output, etc Great for games that support it (music on the MT32 is far superior to any sound card), experimenting with MIDI, or for adding additional sounds to your MIDI setup. $235 + shipping Canon RC-250 Xapshot still video camera system. Includes: camera, carrying pouch, battery pack, battery charger, ac adapter, video cables, two 2.5"" floppies (each disk holds 50 pictures for 100 pics total), manuals, etc Video output is standard NTSC composite and can be sent to any NTSC device (e.g. to a television for direct viewing of your pictures, to a VCR to record a slideshow, to a computer video digitizer to save/manipulate the pictures on a computer system) $295 + shipping Ambico Video Enhancer/Audio Mixer Three-line stereo audio mixer with microphone input and master volume slider w/video enhancer to boost & sharpen video images when dubbing from VCR->VCR, camcorder->VCR, etc $38 + shipping 2400 baud PC internal modem $25 + shipping Quantum 105MB 3.5"" internal ProDrive hard disk This unit has recently turned unreliable and erratic in usage. Could be a simple easily fixed problem or a major problem, but at any rate I don't have the time to find out where the problem lies. If you want to take a risk on it, you can have it for $45 + shipping. If interested in any of the above items, please Email me. -S. Hsieh zeno@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ",6 "Re: Waco survivors 1715 19 April In article hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: > > The point is though that you learn through mistakes. The govt > played the wrong card and lost. Thats not a big deal. They > had had four guys murdered at the begining and maybee they > just were not prepared for wuite this situation. Who could be? > > If the same thing were to happen all over again we might perhaps > be able to castigate the Govt if they used the same tactics and failed > in the same way. As it is I can't say that I would not have made the > same mistake. Maybee I wouldn't because I don't as a rule go in > for a confrontational situation if I can avoid it. Maybee I would > because with all those press about its very difficult not to try > the macho stuff. My god, how many chances do they get? Operation Move (Philedelphia, early 80's), Black Panthers (Chicago, 1969), etc., etc. Hell, we get heavily armed millenial cults out west every couple of years. Do with have to start a cascade of times the feds have been in situations like this? -- Dave Griffith, Information Resources, University of Chicago, Biological Sciences Division dave@delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu Brain damage was what we were after. The chromosome damage was just gravy. ",18 "Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting & >I'm not familiar with the trannies used in Winston Cup, but in the trans-am & >cars I've played with the transmissions were the racing variety, with & >dog clutches instead of sychros. In a transmission with dog clutches, the & >gears are always engaged with each other and moving the dog clutches & >engages the gears to the shafts. Motorcycle transmissions are the same way. & >Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause & >transmission damage, the only question being how long it takesto grenade & >something (for the trans in my 87 Pulsar SE, it was about 3-5k miles, but & >it had a weak tranny in the first place). & & just out of curiosity, how is this ""dog clutch"" any different from a synchro & transmission. What you described SOUNDS the same to me. In fact, what little & i've studied on trannies, the instructor referred to the synchros as ""dogs"" & and said they were synonymous. The gears are always meshed in a synchronized & gearbox, and you slip the synchro gears back and forth by shifting. Or at least, & that is what i was taught. Explain, por favour? Motorcycle transmissions don't have synchros. The engagment dogs are very corse and sloppy. There are maybe 6-10 teeth (dogs) on the side of the gears that engage the next gear over as the forks slide the gears back and forth. To shift: start to apply pressure at the same time the clutch is pulled (the clutch is a hand lever) and shift quickly. If you try a slow lazy shift it will grind, you just have to pop it into the next gear before it has a chance to grind. There isn't a neutral between gears (obviously there is, but you can't select it with the shifter) so double clutching is not a possibility. ""speed shifting"" (which is what I have always heard ""clutchless shifting"" called) works pretty well for upshifts with some practice, but I usually use the clutch-especially for the lower gears. I think auto (as in automobile) trannys are similar, except that the engagment dogs are very fine, with no slop. And the addition of syncho rings. The gear teeth are always engaged in auto transmissions that are synchronized, but may not be in non-synchro gears (reverse and sometimes first). -- Frank Ball 1UR-M frankb@sad.hp.com (707) 794-4168 work, Hewlett Packard (707) 794-3844 fax, (707) 538-3693 home 1212 Valley House Drive IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510 Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999 KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, I'm the NRA. ",7 "Some questions regarding Big Brother (Clipper) In previous postings by Hellman, Bellovin, etal it was reported the Big Brother (Clipper) chip will encrypt plaintext in 64 bit blocks as is done with DES. The users key K which can be derived from RSA, Diffy-Hellman, etc. is used to encrypt plaintext M and is then used to form a ""three part message"". This three part message consists of E[M; K], K encrypted with some other key, and the chip serial number. This three part message is then encrypted by still another key. My question is: What is a message? For example, say we are dealing with an encrypted digitized voice application. The speech waveform is sampled and digitized and then some number of samples are grouped into a 64 bit block. This block is then encrypted and transmitted over a non-secure communications link. Where is the three part message? Is something appended to each 64 bit block? Is a header sent at the beginning of the session? If the header is sent at the beginning of the session, how do they insure the equipment manufacturer using the chip does just that? Can just anyone manufacture products using the chip? Is a facility clearance required to manufacture? Any ideas? ",11 "Why does My WIndow 3.1 restart my computer? FILES=30 BUFFERS=30 DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE /DOUBLE_BUFFER STACKS=9,256 and also my autoexec.bat C:\vshield C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE /L rem ***************** MouseWare 5.0 Setup ****************** PATH=C:\;c:\dos;C:\WINDOWS;C:\FAX;C:\MOUSE;C:\WP51\; SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP MOUSE SER 2 rem ******************************************************** c:\dos\share Have you seen this problem before? Please help me out... thanks Hadi ",2 "Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Athei >DATE: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 10:48:19 +0100 >FROM: mathew > > >There's a great film called ""Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the >Media"". It's a Canadian film; I saw it at the Berlin Film Festival this >year. If you get a chance, go and see it. > >I can't really recommend any books from having read them... I'm thinking of >ordering a book which a reviewer claimed gives a good introduction to his >political activism. I could dig up the title. > >mathew Could it be _The Chomsky Reader_ edited by James Peck, published by Pantheon? ",0 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <4615@isgtec.isgtec.com> robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne) writes: >Michael Frederick Rhein (mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU) wrote: ># In article <93109.13404334AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes: ># >napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it. ># ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ># As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day ># in Texas. > >Not that I agree with the original theory or anything, buuuuut: >Since their utilities were turned off they might be using wood stoves >to cook their meals. > >Rob. >-- >Robert A. Osborne ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!robert or robert@isgtec.com To Rob and all others that have been debating about the wood stove. The original post claimed that the ATF/FBI was pumping napalm into the building with the hopes that the wood stove inside would ignite it. I responed with why would the wood stove be lit in the first place? It wouldn't be lit for heating purposes because of the weather in Texas. Everyone now claims that it was for cooking. Stop and think about this. CS gas was being pumped into the building and I presume that everyone was wearing gas masks (either bought or some type of makeshift type) and this had been going on for 6 hours. I don't know if you have ever been around CS, but I have. Being exposed to CS gas was part of my Army training, so I know that without a mask it VERY uncomfortable and makes your eyes water, nose run, and makes you sick in the stomach. And with the mask it is very difficult to drink water much less eat. So my question now is ""why were they cooking food?"" I will buy that a lantern could have been knocked over and caused the fire. But that stove was not being used for cooking (unless they were even more crazy than the ATF/FBI claim). Michael ",16 "Re: IBM value/point acifuent (acifuent@isluga.puc.cl) wrote: : Hi! : I will change my 286 soon, and i read something about the ibm ps : value-point... anyone have one? the video card is really a 24 bit card? : how much cost in U.S.? : And the last question... can the ps value point 486 sx 25mhz : upgrade to a 486 dx2 66mhz??? : : Thank you veeery much in advance! : : Alejandro Cifuentes H. : acifuent@isluga.puc.cl These questions can be answered by any dealer of IBM Value Points, but, I will provide some unsolicited advice -- the most amusing kind of advice. Today (Tueday 4-6-93) IBM is supposed to officially announce the introduction of the VESA Local Bus Value Point systems. These systems still have on-board video and disk which are far better than the prior Value Point systems, and you get VESA Local Bus for (future?) upgrades. We are going to buy three of them with 17"" monitors (also a newly available), and one of the three will immediately be upgraded to UltraStor 34F caching SCSI disk controller and either the ATI GUP or the Viper graphics board. Do not buy a 486SX sytem. My personal philosophy on upgrade policy is that it is not loss-free. When you earn money you pay taxes, when you spend money you pay taxes. (i.e. they get you coming and going). Translated this means take infrequent but large steps. You are far better off short term AND long term if you avoid the SX models and go straight to the DX or DX-2 models. Gordon ",3 "Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction In article <1993Apr26.103242.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu> banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes: >are in a different class. The big question seems to be is it reasonable to >use them in patients with GI distress or sinus problems that *could* be due >to candida blooms following the use of broad-spectrum antibiotics? I guess I'm still not clear on what the term ""candida bloom"" means, but certainly it is well known that thrush (superficial candidal infections on mucous membranes) can occur after antibiotic use. This has nothing to do with systemic yeast syndrome, the ""quack"" diagnosis that has been being discussed. >found in the sinus mucus membranes than is candida. Women have been known >for a very long time to suffer from candida blooms in the vagina and a >women is lucky to find a physician who is willing to treat the cause and >not give give her advise to use the OTC anti-fungal creams. Lucky how? Since a recent article (randomized controlled trial) of oral yogurt on reducing vaginal candidiasis, I've mentioned to a number of patients with frequent vaginal yeast infections that they could try eating 6 ounces of yogurt daily. It turns out most would rather just use anti-fungal creams when they get yeast infections. >yogurt dangerous). If this were a standard part of medical practice, as >Gordon R. says it is, then the incidence of GI distress and vaginal yeast >infections should decline. Again, this just isn't what the systemic yeast syndrome is about, and has nothing to do with the quack therapies that were being discussed. There is some evidence that attempts to reinoculate the GI tract with bacteria after antibiotic therapy don't seem to be very helpful in reducing diarrhea, but I don't think anyone would view this as a quack therapy. -- David Rind rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu ",13 "_The Andromeda Strain_ Just had the opportunity to watch this flick on A&E -- some 15 years since I saw it last. I was very interested in the technology demonstrated in this film for handling infectious diseases (and similar toxic substances). Clearly they ""faked"" a lot of the computer & robotic technology; certainly at the time it was made most of that was science fiction itself, let alone the idea of a ""space germ"". Quite coincidentally [actually this is what got me wanted to see the movie again] I watched a segment on the otherwise awful _How'd They Do That?_ dealing with a disease researcher at the CDC's top lab. There was description of the elaborate security measures taken so that building will never be ""cracked"" so to speak by man or nature (short of deliberate bombing from the air, perhaps). And the researchers used ""spacesuits"" similar to that in the film. I'm curious what people think about this film -- short of ""silly"". Is such a facility technically feasible today? As far as the plot, and the crystalline structure that is not Life As We Know It, that's a whole 'nother argument for rec.arts.sf.tech or something. -- | Next: a Waco update ... an Ohio prison update ... a Bosnia update ... a | | Russian update ... an abortion update ... and a Congressional update ... | | here on SNN: The Standoff News Network. All news, all standoff, all day | Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract ",13 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr20.173019.11903@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov> julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes: > >As for how foods taste: If I'm not allergic to MSG and I like >the taste of it, why shouldn't I use it? Saying I shouldn't use >it is like saying I shouldn't eat spicy food because my neighbor >has an ulcer. Julie, it doesn't necessarily follow that you should use it (MSG or something else for that matter) simply because you are not allergic to it. For example you might not be allergic to (animal) fats, and like their taste, yet it doesn't follow that you should be using them (regularly). MSG might have other bad (or good, I am not up on knowledge of MSG) effects on your body in the long run, maybe that's reason enough not to use it. Altho' your example of the ulcer is funny, it isn't an appropriate comparison at all. -Prakash Das ",13 "Bennett : Banned, Bayonet I wrote a letter the other day to Empower America - the organization which claims to be championing conservative issues, esp. in the wake of the Republican defeat last fall. Some might consider them just a an organization to create a network of support among conservatives for some individuals in prep. for '96 run. You'd be close to the truth. Their two leading spokesmen are Bill Bennett, former 'Drug Czar' who heartily supported Bush's semi-auto import ban, and wondered if it went far enough - who helped put the big lie about 'sporting use' into the public's eye - and Jack Kemp - who recently came out in support of semi-auto bans. These are conservatives ? Anyway I thought it interesting that when I ran Word Perfect's spell check against my letter - it came up with the following corrections for 'Bennett' : 1. Banned 2. Bayonet Needless to say, I found these choices rather amusing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""It [collectivism vs individualism] is an ancient conflict. Men have come close to the truth, but it was destroyed each time and one civilization fell after another. Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men."" -- Ayn Rand : 'Roark's speech from the _Fountainhead_' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I don't speak for my company. We hire the 'Politically Correct' to do that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",16 "Re: Prayer in Jesus' Name munns@cae.wisc.edu (Scott Munns) writes: >I am doing a dormitory bible ""discussion"" with my Christian roommate and >2 of the non-Christian guys on my floor. They are very close to >accepting Christ, so we have started to disciple them (treat them like >baby believers) and go into more indepth subjects than the parables, etc. >Our first discussion was on prayer. Eventually, we got around to how >we should pray in Jesus' name. Then, an excellent question came up, one >that I don't have a real answer to. The question was, ""If we need to pray >in Jesus' name, what about the people before Jesus? They prayed to God >and he listened then, in spite of their sins. Why can't it be the same >way now?"" I'll take a try at this... From the discussions I have been in, and from how *I* have interpreted the bible, I feel that one can pray either way. BUT remember this, before Jesus, the people talked to God (no other way) and he talked back. (audible and dreams, etc.) Today we have the bible to know Gods will, and we have his son you died for US. He was given as our savior, and while we still do things according to Gods will, we pray THROUGH his son. In the bible it says that if we are not known to Jesus, we are not known to God. (sorry I do not have the verses with me) So, if we are to be granted eternal life, we must present ourselves to Jesus first, who will then present us to God. Leonard -- =========================================================================== -This space intentionally left blank. ",15 "Re: What is it with Cats and Dogs ???! In article , ryang@ryang1.pgh.pa.us (Robert H. Yang) writes: |> Hi, |> |> Sorry, just feeling silly. |> |> Rob No need to appologise, as a matter of fact this reminds me to bring up something I have found consistant with dogs- Most of the time, they do NOT like having me and my bike anywhere near them, and will chase as if to bite and kill. An instructor once said it was because the sound from a bike was painfull to their ears. As silly as this seams, no other options have arrizen. net.wisdom? --- Curt Howland ""Ace"" DoD#0663 EFF#569 howland@nsipo.nasa.gov '82 V45 Sabre Meddle not in the afairs of Wizards, for it makes them soggy and hard to re-light. ",8 "hate the sin... ""Hate the sin but love the sinner""...I've heard that quite a bit recently, often in the context of discussions about Christianity and homosexuality... but the context really isn't that important. My question is whether that statement is consistent with Christianity. I would think not. Hate begets more hate, never love. Consider some sin. I'll leave it unnamed since I don't want this to digress into an argument as to whether or not something is a sin. Now lets apply our ""hate the sin..."" philosophy and see what happens. If we truly hate the sin, then the more we see it, the stronger our hatred of it will become. Eventually this hate becomes so strong that we become disgusted with the sinner and eventually come to hate the sinner. In addition, our hatred of the sin often causes us to say and do things which are taken personally by the sinner (who often does not even believe what they are doing is a sin). After enough of this, the sinner begins to hate us (they certainly don't love us for our constant criticism of their behavior). Hate builds up and drives people away from God...this certainly cannot be a good way to build love. In the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our neighbors. He doesn't say anything about hate. In fact, if anything, he commands us to save our criticisms for ourselves. So, how are Christians supposed to deal with the sin of others? I suppose that there is only one way to deal with sin (either in others or ourselves)...through prayer. We need to ask God to help us with our own sin, and to help those we love with theirs. Only love can conquer sin...hatred has no place. The best way to love someone is to pray for them. - Scott -- This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Scott Holt Internet: scott@prism.gatech.edu Georgia Tech UUCP: ..!gatech!prism!scott Office of Information Technology, Technical Services ",15 "Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity In article djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes: >Ok, what's more important to gay Christians? Sex, or Christianity? >Christianity I would hope. Would they be willing to forgo sex >completely, in order to avoid being a stumbling block to others, >to avoid the chance that their interpretation might be wrong, >etc? If not, why not? Heterosexuals abstain all the time. >(It would be nice if protestant churches had celibate orders >to show the world that sex is not the important thing in life) The biblical arguments against homosexuality are weak at best, yet Christ is quite clear about our obligations to the poor. How as Christians can we demand celibacy from homosexuals when we walk by homeless people and ignore the pleas for help? Christ is quite clear on our obligations to the poor. Thought for the day: MAT 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? -- | The Love of Christ is contagious. --+-- MAT 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are | like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, | but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. ",15 "More TV Info United States Coverage: Sunday April 18 N.J./N.Y.I. at Pittsburgh - 1:00 EDT to Eastern Time Zone ABC - Gary Thorne and Bill Clement St. Louis at Chicago - 12:00 CDT and 11:00 MDT - to Central/Mountain Zones ABC - Mike Emerick and Jim Schoenfeld Los Angeles at Calgary - 12:00 PDT and 11:00 ADT - to Pacific/Alaskan Zones ABC - Al Michaels and John Davidson Tuesday, April 20 N.J./N.Y.I. at Pittsburgh - 7:30 EDT Nationwide ESPN - Gary Thorne and Bill Clement Thursday, April 22 and Saturday April 24 To Be Announced - 7:30 EDT Nationwide ESPN - To Be Announced Canadian Coverage: Sunday, April 18 Buffalo at Boston - 7:30 EDT Nationwide TSN - ??? Tuesday, April 20 N.J.D./N.Y. at Pittsburgh - 7:30 EDT Nationwide TSN - ??? Wednesday, April 21 St. Louis at Chicago - 8:30 EDT Nationwide TSN - ??? ",10 "Re: Animation with XPutImage()? In article <1993Apr21.154620.16330@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk (Derek C. Richardson) writes: |> Two years ago I wrote a Sunview application for fast animation |> of raster files. With Sunview becoming rapidly obselete, I've |> finally decided to rewrite everything from scratch in XView. |> I put together a quick test, and I've found that XPutImage() |> is considerably slower (factor of 2 on average?) than the |> Sunview command pw_rop() which moves image data from memory |> pixrects to a canvas. This was on a Sparc IPX. It seems that: |> (1) the X protocol communication is slowing things down; or |> (2) XPutImage is inefficient...or both! My question is, what The protocol has to move the whole image from process memory to server memory, this is the hog. The conversions in the XPutImage() are fast. |> is the fastest way in X11R5 to dump 8 plane image data to |> a window? Can I take advantage of the fact that the client is |> running on the same machine as the server? Or am I stuck with Yes, by utilizing the MIT-SHM extension, that provides an XPutImage derivate that uses shared memory. Fine fast. |> XPutImage() (in which case I might as well give up now...)? |> No. You can still XPutImage all of the frames onto pixmaps (thus moving them to server memory) and then replay them fastest using XCopyArea() BUT be aware, this is a major server memory bummer ! -- +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ | o | \\\- Brain Inside -/// | o | | o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o | | o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o | +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ ",5 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <16BB8CBF3.V2110A@VM.TEMPLE.EDU> V2110A@VM.TEMPLE.EDU (Richard Hoenes) writes: >I assume you are saying that no-knock warrants are 'unreasonable', this >is a matter of opinion and is not a CLEAR violation of the 4th >admendment. You say that 'this is a country of laws' yet you seem very >willing to ignore these laws, or at least those you disagree with, >and respond to a legal situation with 'blazing guns'. Like it or not, >as it stands now no-knock warrants are legal. If you don't like this >there are legal means to fight this including contacting your >congresspersons about changing the law; and, if it happens to you, >fighting its legality in court. If an unreasonable warrant is served in the 'knock' fashion, I can see the warrant, claim it is unreasonable, allow the search, and hire a lawyer to have the evidence suppressed. If any warrant is served in the 'no-knock' fashion, all I see is men with guns bashing in the door. Maybe they've got ""POLICE"" or ""ATF"" jackets, maybe they yell ""Police"". But ANYONE can do that with little effort. Even if I have time to take in all this, if I decide they are police and fail to defend myself, my decision could easily be fatal. More likely I can't see the jackets before I have to decide whether to defend myself or not, and they yell as they are bashing in the door, so I can't hear them. Or, they've already thrown in some flash-bang grenades, deafening and confusing me. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Some news readers expect ""Disclaimer:"" here. Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. (not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice) ",18 "Re: Satan kicked out of heaven: Biblical? [Someone asked about Biblical support for the image of Satan as a fallen angel. Rev 12:7-9 and Enoch have been cited. --clh] There is also a verse in Luke(?) that says He[Jesus] saw Satan fall from Heaven. It's something like that. I don't have my Bible in front of me or I would quote it directly, but it's a pretty obvious reference to Satan's expulsion. Justin [I believe the reference is to Luke 10:18. The context of the passage makes it possible that Jesus is referring to Satan being defeated by Jesus' mission, rather than a previous fall from heaven. --clh] ",15 "Re: An agnostic's question perhaps you can tell your friend that you feel pressured by his continual discussions of this topic -- surely he doesn't feel you should be _pressured_ into something you feel uncomfortable about (since christianity should be a choice one should make on one's own). please also realize that he is doing this out of friendship -- he probably feels you are missing out on something great, and wants to tell you about it. but since you know where you can learn about christianity, you can tell him that it is now up to you to make that choice, and if the choice is no, you should be respected for that. personally i believe that a christian's mission is just to be christ-like, showing his/her own faith and happiness in that faith, and make sure people know they are welcome to talk to you about it. i do not believe in imposing your beliefs upon others -- but then again everyone's definitions of ""imposing"" may differ. i hope i have made myself clear.... if not, please correct me! :) vera ******************************************************************************* I am your CLOCK! | I bind unto myself today | Vera Noyes I am your religion! | the strong name of the | noye@midway.uchicago.edu I own you! | Trinity.... | no disclaimer -- what - Lard | - St. Patrick's Breastplate | is there to disclaim? ******************************************************************************* ",15 "Top of the line JVC portable disc player for sale I have used JVC's top of the line portable cd player for three months now. I have mostly used it in my car on long trips, so it has less than 20 hours of use on it. The unit is one of the best that I have seen and listened to, but I am going to part with it to install a disc changer in my car. Features include: 17 Hz - 20,000 Hz rechargeable nicad batteries wireless remote control AC adaptor headphones carrying belt and case digital 6 band graphic eq with spectrum analyzer 25 presets, 5 user programmable RCA connections and cord JVC compulink capability (cord included) programmable from remote intro, random, repeat playback I will include a Discwasher (tm) power converter to convert an automobile's 12v DC to the 5.5V DC that the unit requires. I had to buy this one because it was the only one that fits, (JVC makes a unique connection that cannot be found at Radio Shack etc). I paid $235 for the disc player and another $30 for the power converter. I will sell the disc player alone for $180, or both items for $190. Send replies to harrij@rpi.edu or (518)271-7942 -Jon ",6 "MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY 04 May 93, D. Andrew Byler writes to All: DAB> I think I need to again post the Athanasian Creed, whicc pretty well DAB> delinieates orthodox Christian belief on the Trinity, and on the DAB> Incarnation. DAB> It's a pretty good statement of the beliefs eventually accpeted, and the DAB> Creed is in use by the Catholic Church, as well as the Lutheran, DAB> Anglican, and Orthodox churches (the last minus the filioque, which they DAB> delete from the original form of the creed). Do you have any evidence that it is used by the Orthodox Churches? As far as I know it is purely Western, like the ""Apostles' Creed"". The Orthodox Churches use the ""Symbol of Faith"", commonly called ""The Nicene Creed"". Steve Hayes Department of Missiology University of South Africa --- GoldED 2.40 ",15 "Keenan signs with the Rangers!! Just heard on the news that Mike Keenan formerly of the Blackhawks, Flyers, and General of a Siberian Prison has just signed to coach the Rangers. The Rangers, who won the President's Cup last year have slipped just a bit at the end of the season and are destined to finish last behind the lowly Flyers. The Flyers' fans are going to be disappointed on Keenans decision, because they were very interested in him. Oh well. Go CAPS!!!!!!! Connin -- ",10 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article <1r6a50$ln4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aj359@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher C. Morton) writes: > >In a previous article, spl@pitstop.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont) says: > >>The Comsymp ZOG wants you to think that it is the only legitimate > ^^^ >>possessor of nuclear weapons. Unconstitutional! You and I have just >>as much right to a kilogram or two of nice weapons grade plutonium as >>any cruddy little pointy headed liberal Los Alamos pinkos. > >Ah yes, yet another anti-semite anti-gunner blunders into tpg and makes >an ass of himself. satire \'sa-tir\ n [MF or L; MF, fr. L _satura_, _satira_, fr. (lanx) satura full plate, medley, fr. fem. of _satur_ sated; akin to L _satis_ enough - more at SAD](1509) 1: a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn. 2: trenchent wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly. syn see WIT. spl -- Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu San Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608 ""My other car is a car, too."" - Bumper strip seen on I-805 ",16 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga) writes: > solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes: >> >>(Am I the only one who's reminded of Masada?) > >Gentleman, are we also forgetting the near genocide of the Native American >for the barbaric act of being ""heathen"" (i.e. a non-Christian) by a >predominantly Christian government. That's a little over 200 years as I >recall. I'd say that for the most part it was religious persecution >(their religion dictated their lifestyle). No, it wasn't religious persecution. They were in the way of a greedy, better armed, better supported people. Painting your enemies as barbarians is one of the oldest, and most well used tactics. -- Anmar Mirza # Chief of Tranquility #My Opinions! NotIU's!#CIANSAKGBFBI EMT-D # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#ASSASINATEDEA N9ISY (tech) # Somewhere out on the # Politicians prefer #NAZIPLUTONIUM Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants. #PRESIDENTFEMA ",16 "Re: American Jewish Congress Open Letter to Clinton In article , arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes... >In article <22APR199300374349@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes: >> [I complained about the US taking the point in Bosnia, when the Europeans >> should be doing it] > [Ken says the Bosnians are morally superior to the Serbians...] >This implies both sides are equal. True, it may sometimes be difficult or >impossible to determine which side is the victim, but that does not mean that >victims do not exist. Yes, victims exist. There are a staggering number of victims in the world and more each day. I think on balance, intervention would create more victims, including American ones. Since the first responsibility of the US government is to protect Americans, I think they serve that role best by staying away from Bosnia and other regional conflicts. >Would you, in WWII have said that there were atrocities >on the sides of both the Jews and the Germans? Of course not. The Jews were not trying to carve a territory out of Germany either, and except for small-scale resistance and a few larger uprisings, did not have an army or a government. >>These people have been butchering each other for centuries. When one >>side wins and gets what it wants, it will stop. > >Yes, but both sides want different things. The Muslims chiefly want to not >be ""ethnic cleansed"". The Serbians want to ""ethnic cleanse"" the Muslims. It >is indeed true that each side will stop when it gets what it wants, but the >things that the two sides want are not equivalent. I see the pattern of atrocities as a fairly often practiced tactic of a colonizing power - driving away and/or eliminating the population of an area they want to control. The US tried basically that in Vietnam, the Iraqis in Kuwait, the Israelis in Palestine, South Africa, etc, etc, etc. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's saddening. But it is not genocide. It is not my impression that the Serbs want to eliminate every Muslim in Yugoslavia. I still say the Bosnians are getting their asses kicked; they should surrender and evacuate the areas they can't hold. > [I said the fixation on Bosnia is due to it being in a European country, > rather than the third world] > >I recall, before we did anything for Somalia, (apparent) left-wingers saying >that the reason everyone was more willing to send troops to Bosnia than to >Somalia was because the Somalis are third-worlders who Americans consider >unworthy of help. They suddenly shut up when the US decided to send troops to >the opposite place than that predicted by the theory. I am a staunch Republican, BTW. The irony of arguing against military intervention with arguments based on Vietnam has not escaped me. I was opposed to US intervention in Somalia for the same reasons, although clearly it was not nearly as risky. >For that matter, this theory of yours suggests that Americans should want to >help the Serbs. After all, they're Christian, and the Muslims are not. If >the desire to intervene in Bosnia is based on racism against people that are >less like us, why does everyone _want_ to help the side that _is_ less like us? >Especially if both of the sides are equal as you seem to think? Well, one thing you have to remember is, the press likes a good story. Good for business, don't you know. And BTW, not ""everyone"" wants to help the side that is less like us. I never said the two sides were morally equivalent, I said neither one is innocent. There are just too many good reasons to stay away: 1) The Europeans are perfectly able to deal with this dispute on their borders in any way we do it. Put another way, we have no assistance to offer the Europeans which they do not already possess themselves. It is not good to promote the idea in anyone's mind that the United States is responsible for cleaning up every bloody mess in the world. 2) Clinton is not the man to lead this country into a military adventure. Full stop. 3) It is by no means clear what intervention would accomplish, nor that it would necessarily help the victims. It is not clear what the goal is and at what point any commitment could be ended. ",17 "Re: Share your optimization tips In article <1993Apr5.163224.9526@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rmm@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (richard.m.maniscalco) writes: >In article <1pm61pINNp45@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> jbodnar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (John Bodnar) writes: >>According to e_p@unl.edu (edgar pearlstein): >>> Here's another one: >>> >>> 5. My computer arrived with the following statement in its >>> config.sys file: STACKS = 9,256. I changed it to >>> STACKS = 8,128 and saved 1296 bytes. Maybe it could be >>> lowered even more, but I haven't tried it. >> >>Exactly. >> >>Regardless of what Microsoft says, I have set STACKS=0,0 on every single >>computer I have installed Windows on from a simple 386SX-16 up to 486DX-50 >>with EISA motherboards, NDI Volante TIGA adapters, Intel Ethernet Express >>cards, and caching SCSI controllers from DPT and DTC. >> >>Not a problem yet, and the extra 2K+ gained means a lot with conventional >>memory gobbling programs like OrCAD and Tango PCB. >>-- >>John Bodnar : ""While we liked developing Windows >>The University of Texas at Austin : applications, we never inhaled."" >>Internet: jbodnar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu : >>UUCP: ....!cs.utexas!ut-ccwf!jbodnar : -- Borland CEO Philippe Kahn > > > >I remember reading somewhere (QEMM manual, I think) that >STACK=9,256 is needed only for the Windows SETUP program. >Otherwise, use STACK=0,0. > > Rich> > Hmmmmmm...I got my comp with windows pre-installed, and stacks is still 9,256. if it was needed only for setup, wouldn't the morons take it off??? (also, I don't have the qemm manual, as verything came with the comp, but not the qemm manual, so could anyone verify this???) Mickey -- pe-|| || MICHAEL PANAYIOTAKIS: louray@seas.gwu.edu ace|| || ...!uunet!seas.gwu.edu!louray |||| \/| ""Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down, \\\\ | Dug for him a shallow grave, and lay his body down..."" (GD) ",3 "Re: Public/Private Revelation (formerly Re: Question about Virgin Mary (Marty Helgesen) writes: When an alleged private revelation attracts sufficient attention, the Church may investigate it. If the investigation indicates a likelihood that the alleged private revelation is in fact from God, it will be approved. That means that it can be preached in the Church. However, it is still true that no one is required to believe that it came from God. A Catholic is free to deny the authenticity of even the most well attested and strongly approved private revelations, such as those at Fatima and Lourdes. (I suspect that few if any Catholics do reject Fatima and Lourdes, but if any do their rejection of them does not mean they are not orthodox Catholics in good standing.) It may be a bit much to say that a Catholic is free to deny what happened at Fatima. That's a bit strong, it is sort of like saying that a Catholic is free to deny that Hong Kong exists. What a Catholic *is* free to do is to deny the truth of Fatima, without being called a heretic. You can be labeled other things for such an offense, but not a heretic. Theologians make a basic distinction as far as the degree of assent one must give to events like Fatima and Lourdes. Things revealed by God through Jesus Christ or His Apostles must be given the assent due to a revelation of God: total and unswerving. Fatima and Lourdes demand our assent as much as any other well-attested event in human history. Perhaps a bit more, given the approval of the Church. ""Approval"" of an apparition by the Church principally means that whatever happened was in harmony with the Catholic Faith. I personally think of private revelations as our Lord's way of telling us what to do at particular periods in history. He gave us all the doctrines, etc., 2000 years ago, but we can always use some help in knowing how exactly to apply what He gave us. Catholic devotion to the Sacred Heart was a result of a series of apparitions to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, for example. The problem at the time was extreme moral rigorism that was turning our Lord into someone without a heart. The Fatima apparitions were a warning of an impending crisis in the Church (we are living it), and what to do to save the most souls possible in such a situation. ",15 "Re: Statement to everyone on t.p.g In article <1993Apr19.201300.27080@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) says: > >Clue - Kratz' position isn't a defense against inaccuracy. > >I oppose gun control because it doesn't work. If it did, I'd support >it. In fact, I supported gun control before I did my homework. > >There's no demand for pro-gun people who don't know what they're >talking about. In fact, they'd be much better off if they didn't say >anything. > And why is this Freeman? Even if a pro-gun person doesn't know what they are talking about there is always the possibility that they will learn a thing or two. I am and will continue to post even if people get angry with what I have to say. I have several good sources of material now that I know where to look so calm down. >There's lots of information flowing on tpg for those interested in >learning. One can participate in those discussions without ranting >inaccurately. Failure to do so has consequences. > Ah, Freeman seems to forget from my statement that I am learning. I have also asked several of the not-so-hostile folks on this group for sources of information to read. Do you think, Freeman, that maybe this means I am interested in learning? I think it does because as you said people who don't know anything won't be good for the pro-gun cause. >Another good habit to get into is to go read-only for a while, to take >the time to figure out how things work. > Another good habit to get into is to realize that not everyone is you Freeman and accept mistakes. Sure, maybe it could have been some type of misinformation being slung by some anti-gun nut but it wasn't. I made my statement to inform everyone of this and everyone who replied said don't worry about it but also to learn as much as you can. They accepted my mistake and gave me sources of information and told me to read as much as possible. I have read several posts of yours and have found them informative. Why don't you give me the same chance? >-andy Jason ",16 "Re: How to make the disks copy protected (continued) In article sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes: >From: sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) >Subject: How to make the disks copy protected (continued) >Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 01:54:31 GMT >--- > >The discussion under the old topic went in the wrong direction. Some people, >instead of discussing the issue itself, they decided to discuss the >non-technical part of the issue. So, Here I go with my limited knowledge >about this issue. Hoping you guys cut the crap and talk about the real >technical ways to do this. The methods that I am aware that are effective >are: > >1- Laser hole burning. This would leave the disk damaged, so if you format > that particular sector of the disk you can not write to it. It is very ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Laser holes are (or were) used to prevent someone from making exact copies of a disk. You do not want to write to the damaged disk, only read and use the programs. > hard for crackers to damage the disk exactly the same way. > I remember a program called Copywrite that could copy a disk with a laser hole in it. I think it simulates the laser hole. After copying the disk the program is, if necessary, used in conjunction with a program called Nokey or something. (The program tells you which program to use) No solution. - gerrit ",12 "Re: Jack Morris In drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes: >We cannot isolate completely, Roger, but we can make a pretty good >estimate. I won't claim to split hairs and say that we can really >measure who was better, Robby Alomar or Carlos Baerga, last year; the >difference is too close to call. But Larkin and Lee? Clemens and >Morris? The differences are too great there. >In your measure of the game, why should a team that has just won it >all ever replace a single player? Since they are now clearly ""best"", >how can they do better? Yet every team can always find someplace where >they beleive they can improve the team; they can always find a player >a little better than one they already have. (BTW, by my definitions, >the ""best"" player is the one who does the most things to help his team >win. I will allow that this could vary depending on who else is on the >team, by having aptitudes one team needs more than others.) Well then given your definition of ""best"" is it not conceivable that Alfredo Griffin could bring something to a team that that team needs to win while Larkin might not have that something the team needs? Would Griffin then be better than Larkin? >Baseball is a team game, but it is made of individual talents. It is >absurd to judge the success or failure of an individual by the success >or failure of his teammates, whom he did not choose (at least in most >cases.) Morris won last year because he played on a team with Joe >Carter, Robby Alomar, Tom Henke, Juan Guzman, John Olerud, et al. >Clemens lost because he was surrounded by such lesser performers as >Herm Winninham, Luis Rivera, and Jeff Reardon. To define the quality >of the team as a sum of its components (as I do, albeit imperfectly) >is a lesser error than defining the quality of an individual as the >mean quality of the team (as my reading of your arguments suggests you >do) No, I am not trying to define the quality of an individual, at least not for the purpose of ranking them. Toronto won with Olerud. They might have won with Fielder. They might not have won with Thomas. Detroit might have won with Thomas. Chicago might have won with Fielder. You can't rank these individuals. You can only look at who might contribute more to the team effort, which is winning the WS. Thomas could not have contributed to that goal any more than Olerud so I cannot say that Olerud is less of a player. -- cordially, as always, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ""So many morons... rm ...and so little time."" ",9 "Re: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option In my opinion, the limited tort option is the best thing Casey has ever done. Basically, limited tort means that you give up your right to sue for pain and suffering, unless one of the following conditions is met: 1. Your medical bills resulting from the accident exceed $X (where X is some number like 50,000 -- I'm not sure of the exact number) 2. The accident was caused by a drunk driver (I mean, the OTHER driver was drunk) 3. You get a good lawyer and have a good case (basically, you can appeal to regain your right to sue, but there's almost no chance of this ever happening). You are only giving up your right to sue for pain and suffering; you can still sue for medical costs, actual damages, etc. By agreeing to limited tort, you are essentially giving up your right to be an asshole who treats every accident as an entry into the litigation lottery. In exchange, you get a substantial reduction in your rates. I save $150/year. Unfortunately, the insurance companies have managed to scare and confuse people so much that only about 5% of Pennsylvanians go for limited tort. I guess that's OK -- If more people opted for it, the insurance companies would be pushing harder for repeal. ",7 "Re: Sinus Surgery / Septoplasty In article kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf) writes: >In article badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller) writes: >>(I've already heard from a couple who said they had it and it didn't >>really help them). >> >>I am a moderately severe asthmatic. ENT doc says large percentage see some >>relief of their asthma after sinus surgery. Also he said it is not unheard of >>that migraines go away after chronis sinusitis is relieved. >Did your ENT also tell you that this procedure may remove warts from the soles >of your feet and improve your sex life? Actually, severe headaches due to stopped up sinuses (plugged ostia) are possible, and sinus surgery which widens the ostia - from the normal 2 mm to about 10 mm - should relieve this. There are non-surgical ways, however, to keep the ostia open (however, in a few individuals, their ostia are naturally very small), and Dr. Ivker's book talks about this. The underlying cause of chronic sinusitis is NOT cured by this kind of sinus surgery, though. About asthma, that's a little more controversial. Dr. Ivker, in his book, ""Sinus Survival"", *speculates* (and says it's not proven), that many cases of asthma are triggered by chronic sinusitis due to the excessive drainage (postnasal drip) from the sinuses. He's had many patients who've found relief from asthma when the chronic sinusitis is reduced or eliminated - not clinical proof, but compelling anecdotal information of this speculation. Before doing any sinus surgery, first get THE BOOK - it discusses surgery, as well as a good non-surgical treatment program for chronic sinusitis. Jon Noring -- Charter Member --->>> INFJ Club. If you're dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I'll send info. ============================================================================= | Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | | | JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE | | 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World's Best! | | Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | | ============================================================================= Who are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That's where the action is. ",13 "Re: Abortion To: margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis) From: anthony.landreneau@ozonehole.com LM>> >>The rape has passed, there is nothing that will ever take that away. LM>> LM>>LM>True. But forcing her to remain pregnant continues the violation of LM>>LM>her body for another 9 months. I see this as being unbelievably cruel. LM>> LM>>Life is not a ""violation"". LM>But forcing someone to harbor that life in their body *is* a violation. Letting a mother force a child from her body, in order to end that childs life is the ultimate violation. Anthony * SLMR 2.1 * What's the Differance Between an Democrat? ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",18 "Re: Patents (was RC2 RC4) In article , bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev) wrote: > > ahaley@eoe.co.uk (Andrew Haley) writes: > > > : Coca-Cola has always understood it. > > > Coca-cola is made under licence in dozens of countries around the > > world. You're crazy if you think PepsiCo doesn't know the recipe. > > In all those countries Coca-cola is distributed in a form of > concentrate what the local producers simply mix with water and other > simple ingredients. The trick is to know what is in the concentrate... > I don't know if this is still true, but at one time Coca-Cola took elaborate measures to keep the formula secret. For instance, several plants in different cities each made one of six partial concentrates, which were then shipped back-and forth and remixed in a complicated scheme so that no single plant made the whole formula. By now, I would guess that PepsiCo's chemists would have reverse-engineered it; can't be all that exotic. Actually I prefer Pepsi anyhow; in about 3 minutes I'm gonna put money into a Pepsi vending machine... Matt Healy ""I pretend to be a network administrator; the lab net pretends to work"" matt@wardsgi.med.yale.edu ",11 "How hot should the cpu be? How hot should the CPU in a 486-33 DX machine be? Currently it gets so hot that I can not hold a finger on it for more than 0.5 s. I keep a big fan blowing on it, but am considering using a heat sink. Any advice? -- Chris Kushmerick kushmer@bnlux1.bnl.gov --I found my niche in life, I just didn't fit in. ",3 "Re: V-max handling request In a previous article, ba7116326@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg () says: >hello there >ican anyone who has handson experience on riding the Yamaha v-max, pls kindly >comment on its handling . You're kidding, right? This is Flame bait in the extreme. V-max handling? Har har har har.... -- DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________ ",8 "Re: Lincoln & slavery (Re: Top Ten Tricks You Can Play on the American Voter) In article <1993Apr3.185448.13811@isc-br.isc-br.com>, steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes: > In article kmitchel@netcom.com (Kenneth C. Mitchell) writes: # #Slavery makes economic sense (it NEVER makes MORAL sense) when human # #muscle power is an economically valuable asset. Agricultural slavery might # #have lasted right up to the first mechanical cotton reaper, but no # #further; reapers are cheaper than slaves, and don't have to be fed during # #the winter. # # This argument makes a several fundamental errors. First ""agricultural"" # slavery was not limited to production of cotton. In the American south # slave labor was used extensively to grow tobacco, sugar, and rice, all # of which remained labor intensive enterprises well into the 20th century. And of course, in states like Kentucky and Virginia, not well-suited to large-scale plantations, slave labor was used to make one of the most valuable agricultural products of all: more slaves. In some ways, this treatment of humans beings as breeding livestock is the most horrifying aspect of American slavery. # Second, although mechanization of cotton production could be expected to # reduce the demands for labor eventually, it was only in the 1940's # the mechanization of cotton production in the South largely eliminated # the labor intensive character of the operation, long after the ""first # mechanical cotton reaper"" was invented. This is an interesting question. Steinbeck's _Grapes of Wrath_ (published in the 1930s), uses agricultural mechanization of cotton production in Arkansas as the cause of the Joad family being evicted from the land. How many years were involved in the mechanization of cotton farming? When did this first appear? # #Ken Mitchell | The powers not delegated to the United States by the # Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Re: Teflon (Re: Long term Human Missions In article <1rtghr$j9v@techbook.techbook.com> dant@techbook.techbook.com (Dan Tilque) writes: > |The material was useful for seals, but it had a major problem for, say |the linings of vessels: it wouldn't stick to metal. What the space |program did was to find a way to get it to stick. Thus we had no-stick |frypans on the market in the late '60s. Ejon Matejevic who was a full professor at Clarkson University, last I heard, developed the process for sticking Teflon to metals. I don't think it was a NASA project, cuz i heard he held the patent on it, and had made quite a bundle off it. Anyone from Clarkson know the Exact story. I never wanted to ask him myself. pat ",14 "Need Info on high quality video card Hi...I need some info on video card. I am looking a video card that can deliver a high quality picture. I need the card to display images (well for advertising company btw), so it must be rich with colors and the speed must be fast too. I am just wondering if somebody can advise me what to buy for such application, and possible the address of the vendor. thanks in advance Glenn Jayaputera ",3 "Re: Krillean Photography In article <1993Apr26.204319.11231@ultb.isc.rit.edu> eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story) writes: >In article <1rgrsvINNmpr@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes: >>Greg:Flame definitely intended here. Bill was making fun of the misspelling. >>Go look up the word ""krill."" Also, the correct spelling is Kirlian. It >>involves taking photographs of corona discharges created by attaching the >>subject to a high-voltage source, not of some ""aura."" It works equally well >>with inanimate objects. > >True.. but what about showing the missing part of a leaf? Is this >""corona discharge""? > I think I can explain the ""missing part of a leaf"" story. I have actually seen a reproduction of that particular Kirlian photograph, in a book compiled by people who were enthusiasts of Kirlian photography. ""That particular photograph"" ... ? That's right, the effect has been observed only once. Even the writers of the book were inclined to disbelieve in it. I conjecture that the maker of that photograph began by placing a whole leaf between two plates and taking its Kirlian photo. For his next experiment, he cut the leaf in half, put one half down between the same two plates, and took another K. p. The ""missing half"" effect was created by water, oils, etc. left behind after the first photo. This explanation must be tentative, because after all I wasn't there when it happened. Regards, Chris Henrich ",13 "Re: Greek myth and the Bible In , Pegasus@AAA.UOregon.EDU (Laurie EWBrandt) wrote: > > [irrelevant inserts from previous postings deleted] > > A definiation from a text book used as part of an introductory course in > social anthorpology ""The term myth designates traditionally based, dramatic > narratives on themes that emphasize the nature of humankind's relationship > to nature and to the supernatural. ... legends are ususally defined as > tales concerning other times and places that do not give the same extensive > emphasis to supernatural themes. Legends, more often than myths, are retold > purely as entertainment."" from Peter B. Hammand's .An introduction to > Cutural and Social Anthropology. second ed Macmillion page 387. This makes > the Bible a Fibber Magee's closet, over stuffed with a little bit of every > thing gleened by a wandering people. > Pegasus Now doesn't this sound a lot like the ""colorful (or otherwise) story from antiquity that somehow tries to (or does) explain natural pheno- mena""? I think I hear what you're saying, but I'm not convinced that I know what you mean. The possibility exists that what _looks_ like ""myth"" on the surface may be after all much more than ""just"" a story. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ed mahood, jr. < edmahood@infoserv.com > ",19 "HPGL viewer and utilities Hi I would like to know if there is any software, PD or not, who could produce X11 output of HPGL file on RS/6000. And same kind of software who could produce hardcopy on postscript and lasetjet. Thank You +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Gaetan Lord | VOICE: (514) 340-4352 | ! analyste | FAX: (514) 340-4189 | | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal | | | P.O. Box 6079 Station A | | | Montreal, Quebec | | | Canada | THERE'S NO FUTURE IN TIME TRAVEL. | | J0T-2C0 | ********************************* | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",1 "Re: Overreacting (was Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more) In article <1993Apr23.134422.25521@rick.dgbt.doc.ca> jhan@debra.dgbt.doc.ca (Jerry Han) writes: >In article <116530@bu.edu> uni@acs.bu.edu (Shaen Bernhardt) writes: [Text Deleted] >>To be quite honest, the way things are going, I'd call it self defense. >I never advocated not saying what you believe in. I'm advocating second >thought, and calm. > >""A smart warrior defeats the enemy in ambush on the battlefield"" >""A smarter warrior defeats the enemy in open warfare on the battlefield"" >""The smartest warrior defeats the enemy without using the battlefield"" > >Think about it. I have, my thesis was on Sun Tzu. More to the point: Those who are called the good militarists of old, could make opponents lost contact between front and back lines, lose reliability between large and small groups, lose mutual concern for the welfare of the different social classes among them, lose mutual accomodation between the rulers and the ruled, lose enlistments among the soldiers, lose coherence within the armies. They went into action when it was advantageous, stopped when it was not. Today it is. Sitting on your hands will get you nowhere in this battle. >-- >Jerry Han-CRC-DOC-Div. of Behavioural Research-""jhan@debra.dgbt.doc.ca"" >///////////// These are my opinions, and my opinions only. \\\\\\\\\\\\\ >\\\\\\\\\ A proud and frozen member of the Mighty Warriors Band //////// >""Memories of those I've left behind, still ringing in my ears.""-Genesis- uni@acs.bu.edu -- uni@acs.bu.edu -> Public Keys by finger and/or request Public Key Archives: Sovereignty is the sign of a brutal past.<>Fight Clinton's Wiretap Chip! DF610670F2467B99 97DE2B5C3749148C <> Crypto is not a Crime! Ask me how! ",11 "Re: Israeli destruction of mosque(s) in Jerusalem In <2BEC0A64.21705@news.service.uci.edu>, tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) wrote: # # In article eggertj@ll.mit.edu writes: # >In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: # >> I am not aware of any such incidents. # > # >And in article avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes: # > # >> I've read most of the history books dealing with this period, # >> good and bad, and while it is possible that I missed one or two, # >> none of those I've read documents any razing of mosques. So I # >> think that this remarkable claim requires specific documentation. # > # >For the forgetful newcomers, here are the references. # > # >The reference I based my posting on originally is the book ""The West # >Bank Story"", by Rafik Halabi (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich # >1982. Original title: Die Westbank Story). # > # >Quoting from The West Bank Story, pages 35-36: # >""On the night of June 10, an Israeli officer marched from door to door # >through the Moghrabi Quarter [of East Jerusalem] giving the residents # >three hours' notice to evacuate their homes. # > # >... [The participants in a # >July 24, 1967 meeting of a group of Arab relgious and political # >figures] protested the immodest dress of Israelis visiting the mosques # >and the destruction of two mosques in the Moghrabi Quarter adjacent to # >the Western Wall."" # # This issue has been going on for a while and your presentation here of # just one reference probably won't resolve this issue to those that # oppose your insistence that mosques *were* destroyed. Even in your # location of this one reference, you spend most of your quote dealing # with an incidence that, while abhorrant, has nothing to do with the # issue at hand here. Then, at the end of the quote, there is an almost # off-hand comment that ""two mosques"" were destroyed. Tim, you're missing the big sleight-of-hand here. I can accept every word quoted from Halabi and still have ZERO evidence of any mosques being razed. Note that what Halabi refers to is not that mosques were razed but that people PROTESTED alleged razing. Too well we know that this is a common demagogic tactic (or has anyone forgotten the Temple Mount riots, when the Moslem crowd was led to believe that the Israeli Guards were there to cover for the TMF instead of stop them?) --- D. C. Sessions Speaking for myself --- --- Note new network address: dcs@witsend.tnet.com --- --- Author (and everything else!) of TMail (DOS mail/news shell) --- ",17 "FAQ essay on homosexuality Someone referred to my FAQ essay on homosexuality. Since it hasn't been posted for some time (and I've modified it somewhat since the last time), I'm taking this opportunity to post it. There is another entry in the FAQ containing comments by some other contributors. They can be retrieved from ftp.rutgers.edu as pub/soc.religion.christian/others/homosexuality. It contains far more detail on the exegetical issues than I give here, though primarily from a conservative point of view. ---------------------------- This posting summarizes several issues involving homosexuality and Christians. This is a frequently asked question, so I do not post the question each time it occurs. Rather this is an attempt to summarize the postings we get when we have a discussion. It summarizes arguments for allowing Christian homosexuality, since most people asking the question already know the arguments against it. The most common -- but not the only -- question dealt with herein is ""how can a Christian justify being a homosexual, given what the Bible says about it?"" First, on the definition of 'homosexual'. Many groups believe that there is a homosexual ""orientation"", i.e. a sexual attraction to members of the same sex. This is distinguished from actual homosexual sexual activity. Homosexuals who abstain from sex are considered by most groups to be acceptable. However in a lot of discussion, the term 'homosexual' means someone actually engaging in homosexual sex. This is generally not accepted outside the most 'liberal' groups. In this paper I'm going to use 'homosexual' as meaning a person engaging in sexual acts with another of the same sex. I haven't heard of any Biblical argument against a person with homosexual orientation who remains celebate. I think most people now admit that there is a predisposition to be homosexual. This is often called a 'homosexual orientation'. It is not known whether it is genetic or environmental. There is evidence suggesting each. The best evidence I've seen is that homosexuality is not a single phenomenon, but has a number of different causes. One of them is probably genetic. There are several groups that try to help people move from being homosexual to heterosexual. The best-known is Exodus International"". The reports I've seen (and I haven't read the detailed literature, just the summary in the minority opinion to the Presbyterian Church's infamous report on human sexuality) suggest that these programs have very low success rates, and that there are questions about how real even the successes are. But there certainly are people who say they have converted. However this issue is not as important as it sounds. Those who believe homosexuality is wrong believe it is intrinsically wrong, defined as such by God. The fact that it's hard to get out of being a homosexual is no more relevant than the fact that it's hard to escape from being a drug addict. If it's wrong, it's wrong. It may affect how we deal with people though. If it's very difficult to change, this may tend to make us more willing to forgive it. One more general background issue: It's common to quote a figure that 10% of the population is homosexual. I asked one of our experts where this came from. Here's his response: Kinsey (see below) is the source of the figure 10 percent. He defines sexuality by behavior, not by orientation, and ranked all persons on a scale from Zero (completely heterosexual) to 6 (completely heterosexual). According to Kinsey, one-third of all male adults have had at least one experience of orgasm homosexually post puberty. Ten percent of all adult males have most of their experiences of homosexually. That was in 1948. The percentages held true in a followup study done by the Kinsey Institute, based on data in the early seventies but not published until the early 80s or so, by Bell and Weinberg, I believe. I can't put my hand on this latter reference, but here is the online information for Kinsey's own study as it appears in IRIS, the catalog at Rutgers: AUTHOR Kinsey, Alfred Charles, 1894-1956. TITLE Sexual behavior in the human male [by] Alfred C. Kinsey. Wardell B. Pomeroy [and] Clyde E. Martin. PUBLISHER Philadelphia, W. B. Saunders Co., 1948. DESCRIP xv, 804 p. diagrs. 24 cm. NOTES ""Based on surveys made by members of the staff of Indiana University, and supported by the National Research Council's Committee for Research on Problems of Sex by means of funds contributed by the Medical Division of the Rockefeller Foundation."" * Bibliography: p. 766-787. OTHER AUT Pomeroy, Wardell Baxter, joint author. * Martin, Clyde Eugene, joint author. SUBJECTS Sex. * U. S. -- Moral Conditions. LC CARD 48005195 This figure is widely used in all scholarly discussions and has even been found to hold true in several other cultures, as noted in the recent NEWSWEEK coverstory ""Is this child gay?"" (Feb. 24, 1992). A journalist is running the rounds of talk shows this season promoting her book that allegedly refutes Kinsey's study, but the scholarly world seems to take her for a kook...... I've seen some objections to the Kinsey's study, but not in enough detail to include here. (If someone would like to contribute another view, I'd be willing to include it.) Most Christians believe homosexuality (at least genital sex) is wrong. Not all, however. A few denominations accept it. The Metropolitan Community Churches is the best-known -- it was formed specifically to accept homosexuals. However the United Church of Christ also allows it, and I think a couple of other groups may as well. The Episcopal Church seems to accept it some areas but not others. In churches that have congregational government, you'll find a few congregations that accept it (even among Southern Baptists, though the number is probably only one or two congregations). But these are unusual -- few churches permit homosexual church leaders. How carefully they enforce this is another issue. I don't have any doubt that there are homosexual pastors of just about every denomination, some more open than others. As to the arguments over the Biblical and other issues, here's an attempt to summarize the issues: The most commonly cited reference by those favoring acceptance of homosexuality in previous discussions has been John Boswell: ""Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality"", U Chicago Press, 1980. The argument against is pretty clear. There are several explicit laws in the OT, e.g. Leviticus 20:13, and in Rom 1 Paul seems pretty negative on homosexuality. Beyond these references, there are some debates. Some passages often cited on the subject probably are not relevant. E.g. the sin which the inhabitants of Sodom proposed to carry out was homosexual *rape*, not homosexual activity between consenting adults. (There's even some question whether it was homosexual, since the entities involved were angels.) It was particularly horrifying because it involved guests, and the responsibility towards guests in that culture was very strong. (This is probably the reason Lot offered his daughter -- it was better to give up his daughter than to allow his guests to be attacked.) If you look through a concordance for references to Sodom elsewhere in the Bible, you'll see that few seem to imply that homosexuality was their sin. There's a Jewish interpretive tradition that the major sin was abuse of guests. At any rate, there's no debate that homosexual *rape* is wrong. I do not discuss Leviticus because the law there is part of a set of laws that most Christians do not consider binding. So unless NT justification can be found, Lev. alone would not settle the issue. The NT references are all in Paul's letters. A number of the references from Paul are lists of sins in which the words are fairly vague. Boswell argues that the words occuring in these lists do not mean homosexual. Here's what he says: The two Greek words that appear in the lists (i.e. I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10) are /malakos/ and /arsenokoitai/. Unfortunately it is not entirely clear what the words actually mean. /malakos/, with a basic meaning of soft, has a variety of metaphorical meanings in ethical writing. Boswell suggests ""wanton"" as a likely equivalent. He also reports that the unanimous interpretation of the Church, including Greek-speaking Christians, was that in this passage it referred to masturbation, a meaning that has vanished only in the 20th Cent., as that practice has come to be less frowned-upon. (He cites references as late as the 1967 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia that identify it as masturbation.) He translates /arsenokotai/ as male prostitute, giving evidence that none of the church fathers understood the term as referring to homosexuality in general. A more technical meaning, suggested by the early Latin translations, would be ""active mode homosexual male prostitute"", but in his view Paul did not intend it so technically. For a more conservative view, I consulted Gordon Fee's commentary on I Cor. He cites evidence that /malakos/ often meant effeminate. However Boswell warns us that in Greek culture effeminate is not necessarily synonymous with homosexual, though it may be associated with some kinds of homosexual behavior. Given what Boswell and Fee say taken together, I suspect that the term is simply not very definite, and that while it applies to homosexuals in some cases, it isn't a general term for homosexuality. While Fee argues against Boswell with /arsenokotai/ as well, he ends up suggesting a translation that seems essentially the same. The big problem with it is that the word is almost never used. Paul's writing is the first occurence. The fact that the word is clearly composed of ""male"" and ""f**k"" unfortunately doesn't quite tell us the meaning, since it doesn't tell us whether the male is the subject or object of the action. Examples of compound words formed either way can be given. In theory it could refer to rapists, etc. It's dangerous to base meaning purely on etymology, or you'll conclude that ""goodbye"" is a religious expression because it's based on ""God by with ye"". However since Boswell, Fee, and NIV seem to agree on ""homosexual male prostitute"", that seems as good a guess as any. Note that this translation misses the strong vulgarity of the term however (something which Fee and Boswell agree on, but do not attempt to reproduce in their translation). In my opinion, the strongest NT reference to homosexuality is Romans 1. Boswell points out that Rom 1 speaks of homosexuality as something that happened to people who were naturally heterosexual, as a result of their corruption due to worshipping false gods. One could argue that this is simply an example: that if a homosexual worshipped false gods, he would also fall into degradation and perhaps become heterosexual. However I find this argument somewhat forced, and in fact our homosexual readers have not seriously proposed that this is what Paul meant. However I am not convinced that Rom 1 is sufficient to create a law against homosexuality for Christians. What Paul is describing in Rom 1 is not homosexuality among Christians -- it's homosexuality that appeared among idolaters as one part of a whole package of wickedness. Despite the impression left by his impassioned rhetoric, I'm sure Paul does not believe that pagans completely abandoned heterosexual sex. Given his description of their situation, I rather assume that their heterosexual sex would also be debased and shameless. So yes, I do believe that this passage indicates a negative view of homosexuality. But in all fairness, the ""shameless"" nature of their acts is a reflection of the general spiritual state of the people, and not a specific feature of homosexuality. My overall view of the situation is the following: I think we have enough evidence to be confident that Paul disapproved of homosexuality. Rom 1 seems clear. While I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10 are not unambiguous and general condemnations of homosexuality, they do not seem like wording that would come from someone who approved of homosexuality or even considered it acceptable in some cases. On the other hand, none of these passages contains explicit teachings on the subject. Rom 1 is really about idolatry. It refers to homosexuality in passing. The result of this situation is that people interpret these passages in light of their general approach to Scripture. For those who look to Scripture for laws about issues such as this, it not surprising that they would consider these passages to be NT endorsement of the OT prohibition. For those whose approach to the Bible is more liberal, it is not surprising that they regard Paul's negative view of homosexuality as something that he took from his Jewish upbringing without any serious reexamination in the light of the Gospel. As readers of this group know by now, the assumptions behind these approaches are so radically different that people tend to foam at the mouth when they see the opposing view described. There's not a lot I can do as moderator about such a situation. A number of discussions in the past centered around the sort of detailed exegesis of texts that is described above. However in fact I'm not convinced that defenders of homosexuality actually base their own beliefs on such analyses. The real issue seems to rest on the question of whether Paul's judgement should apply to modern homosexuality. One commonly made claim is that Paul had simply never faced the kinds of questions we are trying to deal with. He encountered homosexuality only in contexts where most people would probably agree that it was wrong. He had never faced the experience of Christians who try to act ""straight"" and fail, and he had never faced Christians who are trying to define a Christian homosexuality, which fits with general Christian ideals of fidelity and of seeing sexuality as a mirror of the relationship between God and man. It is unfair to take Paul's judgement on homosexuality among idolaters and use it to make judgements on these questions. Another is the following: In Paul's time homosexuality was associated with a number of things that Christians would not find acceptable. It was part of temple prostitution. Among private citizens, it often occured between adults and children or free people and slaves. I'm not in a position to say that it always did, but there are some reasons to think so. The ancients distinguished between the active and passive partner. It was considered disgraceful for a free adult to act as the passive partner. (This is the reason that an active mode homosexual prostitute would be considered disgraceful. His customers would all be people who enjoyed the passive role.) This supports the idea that it would tend not to be engaged in between two free adult males, at least not without some degree of scandal. Clearly Christian homosexuals would not condone sex with children, slaves, or others who are not in a position to be fully responsible partners. (However Fee's commentary on I Cor cites some examples from ancient literature of homosexual relationships that do seem to involve free adults in a reasonably symmetrical way. Thus the considerations in this paragraph shouldn't be pushed too far. Homosexuality may have been discredited for Jews by some of these associations, but there surely must be been cases that were not prostitutes and did not involve slaves or children.) Some people have argued that AIDS is a judgement against homosexuality. I'd like to point out that AIDS is transmitted by promiscuous sex, both homosexual and heterosexual. Someone who has a homosexual relationship that meets Christian criteria for marriage is not at risk for AIDS. Note that there is good reason from Paul's general approach to doubt that he would concede homosexuality as a fully equal alternative, apart from any specific statements on homosexuality. I believe his use of the Genesis story would lead him to regard heterosexual marriage as what God ordained. However the way Paul deals with pastoral questions provides a warning against being too quick to deal with this issue legally. I claim that the question of how to counsel homosexual Christians is not entirely a theological issue, but also a pastoral one. Paul's tendency, as we can see in issues such as eating meat and celebrating holidays, is to be uncompromising on principle but in pastoral issues to look very carefully at the good of the people involved, and to avoid insisting on perfection when it would be personally damaging. For example, while Paul clearly believed that it was acceptable to eat meat, he wanted us to avoid pushing people into doing an action about which they had personal qualms. For another example, Paul obviously would have preferred to see people (at least in some circumstances) remain unmarried. Yet if they were unable to do so, he certainly would rather see them married than in a state where they might be tempted to fornication. I believe one could take a view like this even while accepting the views Paul expressed in Rom 1. One may believe that homosexuality is not what God intended, that it occured as a result of sin, but still conclude that at times we have to live with it. Note that in the creation story work enters human life as a result of sin. This doesn't mean that Christians can stop working when we are saved. The question is whether you believe that homosexuality is in itself sinful or whether you believe that it's a misfortune that is in a broad sense due to human sinfulness. If you're willing to consider the latter approach, then it becomes a pastoral judgement whether there is more damage caused by finding a way to live with it or trying to cure it. The dangers of trying to cure it are that the attempt most often fails, and when it does, you end up with damage ranging from psychological damage to suicide, as well as broken marriages when attempts at living as a heterosexual fail. This is going to depend upon one's assessment of the inherent nature of homosexuality. If you believe it is a very serious wrong, then you may be willing to run high risks of serious damage to get rid of it. Clearly we do not generally suggest that people live with a tendency to steal or with drug addiction, even though attempts to cure these conditions are also very difficult. However these conditions are intrinsically damaging in a way that is not so obvious for homosexuality. (Many problems associated with homosexuality are actually problems of promiscuity, not homosexuality. This includes AIDS. I take for granted that the only sort of homosexual relationships a Christian would consider allowing would be equivalent to Christian heterosexual relationships.) In the course of discussing this over the last decade or so, we've heard a lot of personal testimony from fellow Christians who are in this situation. I've also seen summaries of various research and the results of various efforts for ""conversion"". (Aside from the Presbyterian report mentioned above, there's an FAQ that summarizes our readers' reports on this question.) The evidence is that long-term success in changing orientation is rare enough to be on a par with healing miracles. The danger in advising Christians to depend upon such a change is clear: When ""conversion"" doesn't happen, which is almost always, the people are often left in despair, feeling excluded from a Church that has nothing more to say but a requirement of life-long celibacy. Paul recognized (though in a different context) that such a demand is not practical for most people, and I think the history of clerical celibacy has strongly reinforced that judgement. The practical result is that homosexuals end up in the gay sex clubs and the rest of the sordid side of homosexuality. Maybe homosexuality isn't God's original ideal, but I can well imagine Paul preferring to see people in long-term, committed Christian relationships than promiscuity. As with work -- which Genesis suggests wasn't part of God's original ideal either -- I think such relationships can still be a vehicle for people sharing God's love with each other. There's an issue of Biblical interpretation underlying this discussion. The issue is that of ""cultural relativism"". That is, when Paul says that something is wrong, should this be taken as an eternal statement, or are things wrong because of specific situations in the culture of the time? Conservative Christians generally insist on taking prohibitions as absolute, since otherwise the Bible becomes subjective -- what is to stop us from considering everything in it as relative? When looking at this issue, it's worth noting that no one completely rejects the concept of cultural relativism. There are a number of judgements in the New Testament that even conservative Christians consider to be relative. The following judgements are at least as clear in the Bible as anything said on homosexuality: - prohibition against charging interest (this occurs 18 times in the OT -- it's not in the NT, but I mention it here because until relatively recently the Church did consider it binding on Christians) - prohibition against swearing oaths - endorsement of slavery as an institution - judgement of tax collectors as sinner We do not regard these items as binding. In most cases, I believe the argument is essentially one of cultural relativism. Briefly: - prohibition of interest is appropriate to a specific agrarian society that the Bible was trying to build, but not to our market economy. - few people believe that American judicial oaths have the same characteristics as the kind of oaths Jesus was concerned about - most people believe that Paul was simply telling people how to live within slavery, but not endorsing it as an institution - for people believe that the IRS is morally equivalent to Roman tax farming The point I'm trying to make is that before applying Biblical prohibitions to the 20th Cent., we need to look at whether the 20th Cent. actions are the same. When Christian homosexuals say that their relationships are different than the Greek homosexuality that Paul would have been familiar with, this is exactly the same kind of argument that is being made about judicial oaths and tax collectors. Until fairly recently Christians prohibited taking of interest, and many Christians regarded slavery as divinely endorsed. (Indeed, slavery is one of the more common metaphors for the relationship between God and human beings -- Christians are often called servants or slaves of God.) I am not trying to say that everything in the Bible is culturally relative. Rather, I'm trying to say that *some* things are, and therefore it is not enough to say that because something appears in the Bible, that ends the discussion. We need to look at whether the action we're talking about now has the same moral implications as the one that the Bible was talking about. If Christians want to argue that there are reasons to think that the prohibitions against homosexuality are still binding, I'm willing to listen. Those who claim that the question doesn't need to be looked at are kidding themselves (unless they are part of the small minority who really obey all the rules listed above). One thing that worries me is the great emotions that this issue creates. When you consider the weakness of the Biblical evidence -- some laws in Leviticus, a passage in Rom whose subject matter is really idolatry rather than homosexuality, and a couple of lists whose words are ambiguous -- the amount of concern this is raising among Christians seems rather out of proportion. This should suggest to people that there are reasons other than simply Biblical involved. This is true on both sides -- clearly homosexual Christians are as strongly motivated to find ways of discrediting the Biblical arguments as conservative Christians are to find Biblical arguments. But I can't help feeling that the Bible is being used by both sides as a way of justifying attitudes which come from other sources. This is a dangerous situation for Christians. On the other side of the issue, I would like to note some problems I have with the pro-homosexual position as it is commonly presented. One of the most common arguments is that homosexuality is biologically determined. I.e. ""God made me homosexual"", and I have no choice. I think ""God made me homosexual"" is a fine view for people who already believe on other grounds that homosexuality is acceptable. But I don't see it as an argument for acceptability. Many people think that alcholism is largely biological, and drug addiction may turn out to be as well. That doesn't mean it's OK. Most of us have particular things we tend to do wrong. Some people get angry easily. Others tend to be arrogant. Others tend to be attraced to women who are married to someone else. Homosexuality (if we view it as wrong) wouldn't be different than any of these other things. If we are going to follow God, we all end up at one time or another having to work to overcome bad habits and particular temptations that cause us problems. None of us can sit back and say that because God made us the way we are we can just relax. As Jesus said, we all have to take up our cross daily. This concept of dying to self (which also appears throughout Paul's letters) seems to suggest that there are going to be things about ourselves that we we are called on not to accept. Paul's letters and the experience of Christians throughout history show us that sin is ingrained in us, and the battle against it is lifelong and difficult. The fact that homosexuality is difficult to fight doesn't necessarily say it's OK. Maybe this isn't the place where we have to die to self. But I'd like to make sure that those who think it isn't are fighting the battle somewhere else, and not rejecting the concept that all Christians have to fight against the deeply engrained habits of sin. ",15 "Re: Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) and HP DeskJet 500... Justin Whitton (ma90jjw%isis@ajax.rsre.mod.uk) wrote: : In article edmoore@vcd.hp.com (Ed Moore) writes: : : thomas.d.fellrath.1@nd.edu@nd.edu wrote: : : I think the ink now used in the DeskJet family is water-fast. : : I've had pictures ruined by a few drops of rain. These were colour pictures : from a DeskJet 500C. Mind you, it could have been acid rain:-) The black ink is waterfast, but the color isn't : : I use a BJ10ex. Ink dries fast, but it really doesn't like getting wet. : : -- : /-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ : |Justin Whitton at ma90jjw%hermes@uk.mod.relay |Where no man has gone before..| : |after August mail ma90jjw@brunel.ac.uk. \------------------------------| : |Disclaimer: My opinions count for nothing, except when the office is empty. | : |I'm a student => intelligence = 0. | : \-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Bob Taylor HP Vancouver ",2 "3DS: Where did all the te TO: rych@festival.ed.ac.uk (R Hawkes) RH>I've noticed that if you only save a model (with all your mapping planes RH>positioned carefully) to a .3DS file that when you reload it after restarting RH>3DS, they are given a default position and orientation. But if you save RH>to a .PRJ file their positions/orientation are preserved. Does anyone RH>know why this information is not stored in the .3DS file? Nothing is This is because the PRJ (Project) format saves all of your settings, right down to the last render file's name. RH>I'd like to be able to read the texture rule information, does anyone have RH>the format for the .PRJ file? Sorry... Don't have anything on that or the CEL format. ....r.c V.t.ell. .r... --- . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #959sa . .....Stupid ..... Line ...}. Noise!! ",1 "X11 Servers for MS Windows available? I have the text on the non-Un*x X11 servers, so I do know that there are X11 servers available for use with MSWindows 3.1. My question is, does anybody have any relevant information on the usability of these servers? Has anyone tried to use them on a Token Ring network and gotten them to work? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dick Kaul | My opinions only, not official IBM positions, etc-- IBM XGA Development | they'd make me wear a suit if I were to speak for IBM. Boca Raton, FL | ""The use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension kaul@vnet.ibm.com | of the Blues Brothers has been approved."" ",2 "Re: Tempest In <1993Apr27.071549.22910@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes: >As anyone who attended HoHoCon will attest, you can pick information ^^^^^^^ >off the video chip. It's surprisingly easy too. The guy did it with >a portable TV, with very minor mods. It only worked from 3 feet, but >then it was just a demonstration. A convention for Santa Claus impersonators? Please elaborate, enquiring minds (those in the second and third jars from the left) want to know.... Peter. ",11 "How to change an icon for a program in windows Suppose you want to change the particular icon for a program in windows such as the MS-DOS one. Would someone let me know how you can do this? Thanks a million. -- Chad Toelle toelle@evansville.edu 4216 S. St. Philip Rd - or - Mt. Vernon, IN 47620 uunet!evansville.edu!toelle (812) 985-3222 ",2 "Re: Emphysema question In article <1993Apr15.180621.29465@radford.vak12ed.edu> mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich) writes: :Thanks for all your assistance. I'll see if he can try a :different brand of patches, although he's tried two brands :already. Are there more than two? The brands I can come up with off the top of my head are Nicotrol, Nicoderm and Habitrol. There may be a fourth as well. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh = = General Internal Medicine | ""...dammit, not a programmer!"" = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",13 "Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians I like what Mr. Joseph Biden had to say yesterday 5/11/93 in the senate. Condemening the european lack of action and lack of support to us plans and calling that ""moral rape"". He went on to say that the reason for that is ""out right religious BIGOTRY"" Mohamed ",17 "Blues into playoffs, beat TB 6-5 By Dave Luecking Of The Post-Dispatch Staff At 9:11 Thursday night, the scoreboard watchers at The Arena began to cheer. Their cheer quickly turned into a roar, and finally, the sellout crowd of 17,816 rose as one to rock the old barn at 5700 Oakland Avenue in a salute to the playoff-bound Blues. The scoreboard had just flashed the news from Detroit -- Red Wings 5, Stars 3. With the North Stars' loss, the Blues officially clinched fourth place and the final playoff spot in the Norris Division. Good thing, because the Blues quit playing. They held a 5-1 lead over Tampa Bay when the Detroit-Minnesota final appeared with 3 minutes 52 remaining in the second period. They promptly went to sleep and barely held on for a 6-5 victory that nearly slipped away at the buzzer. Tampa's Bob Beers tipped in a pass from Shawn Chambers, but officiating supervisor John D'Amico and video goal judge Rich Schweigler ruled that the shot had gone into the net after time had expired. ``I'm glad I didn't see it go in at the end,"" Blues coach Bob Berry said. If the goal had counted, he'd have been more upset than he was by the Blues' disappearance in the final 24 minutes. Holding on for the victory and making the playoffs tempered Berry's anger. ``It wasn't pretty at the end,"" he said. ``We played 36, 37 great minutes, as good as we played all year. It slipped away at the end. It shouldn't have, but it did."" Still, the Blues won, prompting another ovation from the crowd at game's end. Despite their shoddy effort in the third period and all the turmoil this season, the Blues still made the playoffs. They'll meet the Chicago Blackhawks in a best-of-seven Norris Division semifinal, beginning at noon Sunday at Chicago Stadium. The Blues finished the regular-season with a record of 37-36-11 for 85 points, their fourth consecutive plus-.500 season. Minnesota finished three points behind in fifth place, with a record of 36-38- 10 for 82 points. Tampa Bay, which played spoiler last week by tying the Blues 2-2 at Tampa, ended its first season with a record of 23-54-7 for 53 points. The poor finish cast an unnecessary shadow over what should have been a joyous Blues locker room. Instead, the mood was one of relief and some disappointment. ``It's a shame we let down,"" said Kevin Miller, one of three Blues to score two goals. Brendan Shanahan and Bob Bassen were the others. ``There was no need for a letdown. If we'd have kept working, it would have ended 6-2 and everyone would be happy."" Instead, a lot of players were happy just to make the playoffs. ``We won, and that's all that matters,"" said Brett Hull, scoreless and minus-3 for the night. ``Once we got up 4-0, it was really tough to play."" Some players didn't have a problem. ``Just because the score was announced, our line didn't quit,"" said Rich Sutter, who played with Bassen and Miller. ``We still had a game to play. You can't allow five goals like we did, that's not right. ``It was disappointing to see what was going on."" Bassen was almost frantic on the bench because of the Blues' effort. Somehow, he missed the announcement of Minnesota's loss. ``I didn't know it was final,"" he said. ``I was kind of looking around on the bench. I didn't realize it was a final for some reason. We're in the playoffs, and that's great, but it's a little disappointing to play like we did at the end."" The letdown was precisely the reason that Berry had instructed the scoreboard operators to keep the Minnesota-Detroit score off of the board. The score showed 0-0 until it first popped up with Detroit leading 4-2 in the third period. The Blues already led 4-0 at the time. ``I told them I didn't want to see the score, I didn't want to know the score,"" Berry said. ``I felt we had to win the game, and that's the approach we took."" If Minnesota took a lead, Berry feared, the pressure of having to win might bother the Blues. If Detroit led, he worried, the Blues might quit. Until the announcement, the Blues played splendidly. Shanahan got the crowd going at 10:44 of the first period, scoring his 50th of the season. Then, Miller and Bassen took charge late in the period. With the teams playing four on four, Miller broke in on left wing, deked defenseman Roman Hamrlik and beat former Blues goalie Pat Jablonski with the rebound of his own shot with 21.6 seconds remaining in the period. Then, just 10.5 seconds later, Bassen rifled a long slap shot past Jablonski after defenseman Rick Zombo intercepted a Tampa pass in the neutral zone. Bassen made it 4-0 just 14 seconds into the second period, scoring on the rebound of Bret Hedican's shot. The goal gave him his first two-goal game of the season and reminded him of a special friend. Last year, Bassen befriended young Oliver Mulvihill, who died of a rare form of cancer at age 6 on Feb. 23. ``I was thinking of my buddy Oliver,"" Bassen said. ``He's in heaven now, and I know he was watching. I know he's happy."" Miller increased the Blues lead to 5-0 on a break-away goal set up by Zombo at 11:09. Then, Steve Maltais broke Curtis Joseph's shutout just 18 seconds later, making it 5-1. Less than a minute after the North Stars' final was announced, Tim Bergland scored and cut the lead to 5-2. But Shanahan scored his 51st, converting a pass from Nelson Emerson with 21.3 seconds remaining in the second period. Then, it was all Lightning. Adam Creighton scored 40 seconds into the third period, prompting Berry to rest the overworked Joseph. Guy Hebert allowed goals to Shawn Chambers and Danton Cole in a span of 1:21 midway through the third period. The goals by Chambers and Cole made Shanahan's second goal stand up as the winner. ``We were in there,"" Shanahan said. ``The game was over. We were in."" %*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* * __ ______________ ____________________________________ % % \ \_)____________/ A L L E Z L E S B L U E S ! ! ! * * \ __________/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ % % \ ________/ * * \ _______/ Joe Ashkar % % \ \ Contact for the Blues * * \ \ SAINT LOUIS jca2@cec1.wustl.edu % % (___) BLUES * *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*% ",10 "Re: ""Proper gun control?"" What is proper gun cont In article hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes: >I'd like to point out that I was in error - ""Terminator"" began posting only >six months before he purchased his first firearm, according to private email >from him. >I can't produce an archived posting of his earlier than January 1992, >and he purchased his first firearm in March 1992. >I guess it only seemed like years. >Kirk Hays - NRA Life, seventh generation. I first read and consulted rec.guns in the summer of 1991. I just purchased my first firearm in early March of this year. NOt for lack of desire for a firearm, you understand. I could have purchased a rifle or shotgun but didn't want one. -Case Kim ",16 "Speedstar 24X & Windows Enhanced Mode Hi, I have a 486/66MHz SYS based PC with 8M RAM and a problem. What is the best way to configure high memory with QEMM/386MAX ?? I have a SPEEDSTAR 24X video card and use Hyperdisk disk cache software. The problem is running Windows 3.1 in Enhanced mode and having any high memory to load stuff high? Note : I tried, as recommended to exclude the region A000-C7FF but Windows insists on starting in Standard mode. Any suggestions? Dan ",2 "Re: help - how to construct home-built battery for 3rd grade sci report In article mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes: >Almost any two dissimilar metals in almost any electrically conductive >liquid. > >Example: Copper and zinc in Coca-Cola... > >copper and galvanized steel nails in a lemon... > >Don't expect much power out, but it should be easily detectable >with a voltmeter. > >-- >:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** >:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* >:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * >:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< A copper and a zinc rod in a potato also work nice. ",12 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes: |>Xref: taco alt.parents-teens:1937 rec.autos:101669 |>Path: taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!erich.triumf.ca!music |>From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) |>Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens,rec.autos |>Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)... |>Date: 19 Apr 1993 16:16 PST |>Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility |>Lines: 52 |>Distribution: world |>Message-ID: <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca> |>References: <18APR199309481599@erich.triumf.ca> <1qs4a9$f87@bigboote.WPI.EDU> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca |>Summary: Violent Teenagers and victims need help. |>Keywords: brick, rock, danger, gun, violent, teenagers |>News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 |> |>In article , jrowell@ssd.intel.com (Janet Rowell) |> writes... |>#>Could we plase cease this discussion. I fail to see why people feel the need |>#>to expound upon this issue for days and days on end. These areas are not |>#> meant for this type of discussion. If you feel the need to do such things, |>#> please take your thought elsewhere. Thanks. |># |>#I just want to second this request. I value this net group as one where people |>#focus on solving problems and go out of their way to be respectful of |>#differences. The hostility expressed in the original posting feels like an |>#assault. |># |>#Thanks, |>#Jan |># |> |> Exactly my point. There is a lot of hostility to, and from, teenagers. |> |> Look, I sent these posts here to alt.parents-teens (with a copy to |> rec.autos) since you people in this group may have the best advice for |> and experience with troubled teenagers. |> |> If you follow the news for the northwest USA, you will have heard that a |> group of 20-year old boys (barely out of the teens, certainly their outlook |> was developed during their teens) just shot and killed an innocent little |> girl riding in a car in the Seattle area when her mother (who was driving) |> honked her horn at the car with the boys in it. This is really upsetting |> and makes my stomach turn as it would any parent's. Doesn't your heart |> just go out to that poor mother? |> Yes, Fred, my heart and prayers go out to the mother and others who have been victims of these and other senseless crimes. |> You folks in this group have a responsibility to offer any good advice |> that you may have. I suspect lots of people all over the world will read |> and appreciate your comments. |> However, I feel that you have missed the point of the previous postings (see top). Your statement of 'responsibility' is felt as an attack towards the members of this group. You are attempting to make the members of this group be REQUIRED to answer. The only people who should make a statement are people who have experienced the problem and found a workable solution. |> Teenagers both drive cars and are involved in automotive vandalism and |> crime. Maybe someone on this newsgroup has had specific experience in |> dealing with violent teenage offenders like these kids are. At the same |> time, maybe you would have some good advice for those hostile people who |> sense that are now the potential victims. Maybe you would have some good |> advice for them on how not to pay back and/or not make the situation worse. |> Maybe you have some good advice for local authorities or schools where |> this problem is prevalent. But then again, maybe you're not interested. :-( Many people are interested, but have no input. I will restate that your last sentence here is seen as an attack on the members of this group. If people have input, they will give it. If they do not, YOU should not make them feel compelled (sp?) to respond. If you wish to continue this conversation, PLEASE send e-mail. DO NOT repost or attempt to bait me, I will not make another post (and may I make the same a suggestion to other group members) on this matter. |> |> Thanks in advance for your help, if we get any. |> BTW, your welcome. -- =============================================================================== Jerry L. Storrs, System/Network Manager || ...""Why do you look for the living Dept of Chemical Engineering, NCSU || among the dead? He is not here, storrs@che.ncsu.edu (preferred) || He is risen!"" storrs@eos.ncsu.edu || ^^^^^^^^^^^ Luke 24:5-6 <>< || THE LORD IS RISEN INDEED!! =============================================================================== Any statement made is the explicit belief of the writer and not the employer. ",7 "Re: Cultural Enquiries In article irwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Irwin Arnstein) writes: >In article <1phuse$5u1@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com writes: >>In article 28712@aber.ac.uk, azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) writes: >>>Two questions that fascinate me:- >> >>Check you local blue light special for a sale on lives... >> >>>1) Why are rednecks called rednecks? >> >>The origin of the slang is probably a reference to a sunburned neck, >>often obtained while performing honest work outdoors. The neck is >>specified to distinguish these people, whose shirt-protected chest and >>back are pale, from the elitist wealthy, who, in their idiotic quest >>for darker skin pigmentation as a badge of leisure time, overdo it and >>get full-body sunburns. >> > >More like those who use their backs instead of their minds to make >their living who are usually ignorant and intolerant of anything outside >of their group or level of understanding. >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >""Tuba"" (Irwin) ""I honk therefore I am"" CompuTrac-Richardson,Tx >irwin@cmptrc.lonestar.org DoD #0826 (R75/6) >------------------------------------------------------------------------- That sounds like an awfully closed minded, intolerant attitude. 1/2 :') I'm not a redneck but . . . try a walk in their shoes first. Stereotypes are usually of very limited value. I've seen as many ignorant self-righteous ""open minded"" new age lovers of the great planet Earth as I have ignorant ""red necks"". I don't see a correlation. I don't believe that the ""redneck"" culture, if you can call it that, is necessarily inferior or superior to any other. I gotta have a beer, I'm making too much sense. Next thing you know, I'll be preaching tolerance . . .. and I'm a conservative. Jack Waters II DoD#1919 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ I don't fear the thief in the night. Its the one that comes in the ~ ~ afternoon, when I'm still asleep, that I worry about. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",8 "Re: guns in backcountry? no thanks Hi, In Canada, any gun that enters a National Park must be sealed (I think it's a small metal tag that's placed over the trigger). The net result of this is that you _can't_ use a gun to protect yourself from bears (or psychos) in the National Parks. Instead, one has to be sensitive to the dangers and annoyances of hiking in bear country, and take the appropriate precautions. I think this policy makes the users of the National Parks feel a little closer to Nature, that they are a part of Nature and, as such, have to deal with nature on it's own terms. Guy ",16 "Re: Albert Sabin In article <1993Apr15.231515.19982@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes: >In article , rfox@charlie.usd.edu (Rich Fox, Univ of South Dakota) writes: >|> In article <1993Apr10.213547.17644@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes: >|> >|> [earlier dialogue deleted] >|> >|> >|> Perhaps you should read it and stop advancing the Bible as evidence relating >|> >|> to questions of science. >|> >|> [it = _Did Jesus exist?_ by G. A. Wells] >|> >|> > There is a great fallacy in your statement. The question of origins is >|> > based on more than science alone. >|> >|> Nope, no fallacy. Yep, science is best in determining how; religions handle >|> why and who. > > The problem is that most scientists exclude the possibility of the > supernatural in the question of origins. Is this is a fair premise? Not entirely. Its not a premise, its a conclusion. Second, that scientists (for the most part) exlude the possibility is not a problem, its a necessity. Scientists are empircists, not theologians. > I utterly reject the hypothesis that science is the highest form of > truth. So do scientists, and long before you did. Clearly you have a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of science. >|> >|> > If you met a man who could walk on >|> > water, raise people from the dead, claimed to be the Son of God, and >|> > then referred to the inviolability of the scriptures, this would affect >|> > your belief in the origin of man. (I can expand on this.) >|> >|> Nope, wouldn't affect my knowledge (not belief) of origins of anatomically >|> modern humans. If that man could show me something better, I'd change, even if >|> it was the biblical story in exact detail. But then I would ask, ""Why in the >|> world did your father endow us with intellect and reason, and then proceed to >|> fool us. I mean, the bible says nothing about the human-like creatures that we >|> know exist. > > Some of these so-called human-like creatures were apes. Some were > humans. Some were fancifully reconstructed from fragments. Absolutely and utterly false (except for some were AMHs). Lucy (Australopithecus afarensis, ca. 3 to 3.25 mya) is 40% complete, and about 80% taking into consideration bilateral symmetry. Lucy walked upright and bipedally, just like humans, and the two share a remarkably similar dental pattern. Her cranial morphology is unlike humans or modern apes. There are hundreds of other specimens of this and other species, of which only some are *partially* reconstructed. They exist Bill. You can touch them, feel them, hold them. But forget hominids. The earth, the universe, the cultural record all look and test out as ancient indeed. They are not reconstructions. Has God has tricked us here too? It won't go away, Bill. > >|> >|> I doubt any of us will meet a man like this. But, Bill, if your version of all >|> this is absolutely correct, I'm still no worried about my salvation. I'll >|> probaby make it (I don't steal, murder, covet, etc, and I like to help other >|> people). All I did was use the reason and intellect your god provided. >|> He or she - benevolent and loving - will understand my dilemma, don't you >|> think? > Good deeds do not justify a person in God's sight. > An atonement (Jesus) is needed to atone for sin. So *you* and other fundamentalists say. What about the billions who don't say so? Beware of people who say they have the truth, Bill, and reconsider each time you think you do. >|> >|> > Science and >|> > the Bible are not in contradiction. God can supercede the scientific >|> > ""laws"" as man understands them. Creation is a good example. God has the >|> > power to create something out of nothing, order out of chaos. >|> >|> Haven't been on t.o. long, but I have a feeling, Bill, that the veterans will >|> agree with you here. No contradiciton, and god *can* do anything at will. So, >|> what's the beef? (or more properly, ""where's"") > > My point: God is the creator. Look's like we agree. That was not your point, Bill. Your point above was God *has* the power .... Scientists generally agree with that. That's a far cry from saying God did. Please attempt to understand your own posts. >|> >|> > If the title of the book you mentioned has anything to do with the >|> > substance of the book, it must be a real laugher. Of course Jesus existed, >|> > and there are volumes of evidence to back it up. I can give many if you >|> > are interested. >|> >|> Its not a laugher, Bill. Its a scholarly book that many happen to disagree >|> with. I am definitely (and seriously) interested in confirmation. I know of >|> the bible, inferences therefrom (e.g., prophecies), apocrypha, the Koran and >|> others. What I am interested is independent evidence. Do you have any? I >|> know of Josephus, but this is almost certainly an insertion. Also I know of a >|> few Roman documents (e.g., Pliny), but these deal only with early Christians. >|> Do you have any independent evidence? I am most interested. Please Email or >|> post. Thanks, and best regards. > > I'll send you some info via e-mail. > Regards, Bill. I have your info, and I have replied - several days ago. Hope you have it. Somehow your post above appeared at my server only today. Rich Fox, Anthro, Usouthdakota ",19 "Legality of placebos? How is it that placebos are legal? It would seem to me that if, as a patient, you purchase a drug you've been prescribed and it's just sugar (or whatever), there's a few legal complications that arise: 1. If you have been diagnosed with a condition and you aren't given accepted treatment for it, it seems like intentional medical malpractice. 2. A placebo should fall, legally, under the label of quackery (why not?) 3. Getting what you pay for. (Deceptive ""bait and switch"" to an extreme...). False advertising (what if McDonalds didn't put 100% pure beef in their hamburgers?) So I'm mystified. Are these assumptions erred? If they aren't, why the hell can a doctor knowingly or unknowingly prescribe a placebo? Thanks calzone ",13 "tuff to be a Christian? bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes: > I don't think most people understand what a Christian is. It >is certainly not what I see a lot in churches. Rather I think it >should be a way of life, and a total sacrafice of everything for God's >sake. He loved us enough to die and save us so we should do the Typical statement from an irrational and brainwashed person. The bible was written by some male chavnist thousands of years ago (as were all of the ""holy"" books). Follow the parts that you think are suitable for modern life. Ignore the others. For heaven's (!) sake don't take it literally. >same. Hey we can't do it, God himself inspires us to turn our lives >over to him. That's tuff and most people don't want to do it, to be a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >real Christian would be something for the strong to persevere at. But So you think it is easy to be a Muslim? Or be a Buddhist? The Buddha's commandments are 500 yrs older than Christ's and in my opinion tougher to follow. Moreover the Buddha says that we are intrinsically good (as against Christ's ""we are all sinners""). Only we allow ourselves to be distracted. By meditating we can awaken ourselves (etc etc). Also there is no concept of God in Buddhism. (In my opinion you can be an Atheist and a Buddhist). But to ""awaken"" yourself is no easy task. Can you stay away from eating meat? Can you sit still and think of nothing (meditate) for sometime everyday? Buddhists do (or are supposed to). Can you pray five times a day? Can you fast for a month every year (Ramzan). Are you willing to give 1/6 th of your income as tithe? Muslims do. In fact I think Jesus was an ordinary man (just as Buddha and Mohamed) probably with a philosopy ahead of the times (where he lived). Considering the fact that Christianity is a young religion (compared to Hindiusm, Judaism, Zorasterism, Buddihsm) it is also very probable that the Bible is merely a collection of borrowed ideas. (There was a good deal of trade between the eastern lands and the middle east at the time of Christ). And perhaps some more. But leave the crap in it out (""woman was created after man, to be his helper"" etc). aras >just like weight lifting or guitar playing, drums, whatever it takes >time. We don't rush it in one day, Christianity is your whole life. >It is not going to church once a week, or helping poor people once in >a while. We box everything into time units. Such as work at this >time, sports, Tv, social life. God is above these boxes and should be When ever I turn on my TV there is this Pat Robertson and other brain washers (Oh boy, what an act they put on!) with an 1-800 number to turn in your pledges. God it seems is alive and well inside these boxes. >carried with us into all these boxes that we have created for >ourselves. Parting Question: Would you have become a Christian if you had not been indoctrinated by your parents? You probably never learned about any other religion to make a comparative study. And therefore I claim you are brain washed. ",15 "Re: WC/Finland In <1993Apr25.220033.7284@math.ucla.edu> dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes: >Jarkko Ketolainen writes: >>Disaster! Finland was beaten by Czech 1-3 (0-0,1-1,0-2). >>Finland will be 4th of pool B and will most certainly meet Canada in the >>quarter final on wednesday 28th. > Look at the situation positively... the Finns can now kick Canada out! :-) They did last world cup and eventually lost tp Sweden in the final! /Peter ",10 "Realistic PRO-2024 scanner for sale:was $200, sell for $150 Article 10886 of alt.radio.scanner: Path: usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aj008 From: aj008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Aaron M. Barnes) >Newsgroups: alt.radio.scanner Subject: Realistic PRO-2024 for sale-was $200,sell for $150 obo Date: 20 Apr 1993 16:01:28 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1r16oo$3du@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu Hello. I have a Realistic PRO-2024 scanner for sale.Here is a small desc ription: 60 programible chanels fully detailed backlighted digital display headphone jack antenna jack removable telescoping antenna auto search coverage: 30-50mHz 118-174mHz 380-512mHz It originally cost $200, but I will sell for $150. Thank You. -- / / Buchanan in `96! / / Fear the goverment that fears your guns. \ \/ / Without the 2nd amendment, we cannot guarantee ou \/ / r freedoms. aj008@cleveland.freenet.edu -- / / Buchanan in `96! / / Fear the goverment that fears your guns. \ \/ / Without the 2nd amendment, we cannot guarantee ou \/ / r freedoms. aj008@cleveland.freenet.edu ",12 "Re: Identify this bike for me In article <1993Apr6.002937.9237@adobe.com> cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes: >In article <1993Apr5.193804.18482@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> coburnn@spot.Colorado.EDU (Nicholas S. Coburn) writes: >}first I thought it was an 'RC31' (a Hawk modified by Two Brothers Racing), >}but I did not think that they made this huge tank for it. Additionally, > I think I've seen this bike. Is it all white, with a sea-green stripe and just 'HONDA' for decals, I've seen such a bike numerous times over by Sewall hall at CU, and I thought it was a race-prepped CBR. I didn't see it over at the EC parking lot (I buzzed over there on my way home, all of 1/2 block off my route!) but it was gone. Is a single sided swingarm available for the CBR? I would imagine so, kinda neccisary for quick tire changes. When I first saw it, I assumed it was a bike repainted to cover crash damage. Joel. ",8 "Does any one know what is biggest ROM for present ? Please replay yxy4145@usl.edu Thanks a lot ",12 "Re: 2ND AMENDMENT DEAD - GOOD ! In article <1qrn3aINN4rq@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes: >> The 2nd amendment is dead. Accept this. Find another way. > >It ain't dead, yet. And even if it were repealed, remember, it just protects >our RKBA, it does not grant any rights. There would then have to be >additional laws passed to outlaw gun possession. Even if they outlawed private posession of firearms, there would be no moral force behind that law; I imagine compliance would be low. don ",16 "I Want AllStar Tickets ! I want All-Star Tickets does anyone know how I can get some? Are they for public sale or are they sold out? Or do you just have to work for a company with some Anyway any answers would be appreciated. Please E-mail me. Thanks, Andrew ",9 "patches for SUNGKS4.1 ? Due to a number of bugs in GKS4.1 under SUNOS 4.1.3, I installed patches 100533-15 and 100755-01. Patch 100533-15 appears to work fine and has fixed a number of problems. Patch 100755-01, however, which is required to fix a number of other annoying bugs, breaks with our applications. Is there a more recent revision of patch 10075? Any other ideas? Scott Sloan email cesws@cc.newcastle.edu.au University of Newcastle fax +61 49 216991 NSW Australia ",1 "Is it possible ? Hello. Is it possible to know minimize program manager when starting an application and to restore it when the application is ended ? If possible, please tell me how to do it ! -- ===================== ( Forever 23, Michael Jordan.) ===================== Tony G. Wu gtonwu@uz.nthu.edu.tw CAE/Rheology Lab. NTHU. tony@che.nthu.edu.tw ",2 "Re: Using SetWUTime() with a PB170 aep@world.std.com (Andrew E Page) writes: > I can get the mac to go to sleep, but I can't make seem to >make it wake up with SetWUTime(). The PowerBook 170 hardware doesn't have a wakeup timer. Nor does the 140. The Mac Portable had one, and I think the PowerBook 100 had one. I don't know about the newer PowerBooks, but I kind of doubt it. I got bit by this too, and it took my a while rooting around on the developer CD before I found this out. Steve Folta folta@well.sf.ca.us ",4 "PowerPC and old Macs: what happens then? I have a few questions that I would like answers to (or opinions on) since I'm thinking about buying a LC-III: Q1) When the PowerPC-based Macs are announced, what will happen to the 680X0-based Macs? Q2) Is System 7 the 'last word' for 680X0-based Macs? Will we ever get REAL multi-tasking for the Mac? Q3) Will there be a way for NuBUS/PDS-equipped Macs to add a PowerPC-on-a-board to their systems? I'd hate to think that I'm going to put my $$ down on a machine that in 6 months is now part of a dead-end product line! Thanks in advance, ------------ Mike Norman,c/o Bell-Northern Research P.O. Box 3511 Station 'C' Ottawa Ontario Canada K1Y 4H7 M/S 115 Internet: mwnorman@bnr.ca tel: (613) 763-7717 (FAX:613-763-5568) ""Hasta la vista, Baby!"" A. Schwarzenegger ",4 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is Tony Lezard writes: > mathew writes: > > Yes, do see item 18 in the sci.physics FAQ file. The mass is only > > fundamental and invariant under the new definition. Since most people are > > more familiar with the old definition of mass, I claim it's reasonable to u > > the old definition when posting to alt.atheism. > > Referring to the rest mass, or what I would just call mass, as m0... > > The ""new definition"" is decades old! Anyone who has worked with SR > since then would be familiar with it. Er, I'm afraid not. The Cambridge time retardation effect unfortunately spreads out as far as the Physics labs, and certainly as of 1987 the old definition was still in use when teaching students... > both know what is going on, and *that* is invariant! To say that > things actually get heavier when moving fast (relative to the observer) > misrepresents what is actually going on: Well, yes, but almost any description of physics in plain English will misrepresent it to some degree. > it is better to say that > momentum / velocity is observed to increase according to an external > observer. Except that momentum is no longer taught in GCSE physics, because it was felt to be too difficult... > > > You need a gravitational field to curve space, not speed (relative to > > > what?). > > > > I didn't say it was the speed that was curving space. > > Yes you did. From <930423.110254.3I5.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>: > > # Again, things get tricky when they move fast. Objects get heavier, space > # gets curved, and reality generally fails to live up to one's expectations. Yeah, and I was claiming that speed causes disappointment, too. Thinking about it, a much more interesting distortion would probably be the visual effect of having the universe seemingly compress itself into the front of your field of view and frequency shift all over the place, which I seem to remember is what happens at those speeds... At least you'd see it, unlike the curvature of spacetime. What the hell is this doing in talk.abortion? mathew ",19 "Re: Yankee fears. How can anyone pick the worst Yankee pitcher. In the past 12 years there have been so many. Does the name Steve ""You mean I should try and throw the ball to the catcher"" Trout? Jonathan Alboum UVA ",9 "Re: More technical details In article <1993Apr19.134346.2620@ulysses.att.com> smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes: >Here are some corrections and additions to Hellman's note, courtesy of >Dorothy Denning. Again, this is reposted with permission. > >Two requests -- first, note the roles of S1 and S2. It appears to me >and others that anyone who knows those values can construct the unit >key. And the nature of the generation process for K1 and K2 is such >that neither can be produced alone. Thus, the scheme cannot be >implemented such that one repository generates the first half-key, and >another generates the second. *That* is ominous. > >Second -- these postings are not revealed scripture, nor are they >carefully-crafted spook postings. Don't attempt to draw out hidden >meanings (as opposed to, say, the official announcements of Clipper). >Leave Denning out of this; given Hellman's record of opposition to DES, >which goes back before some folks on this newsgroup knew how to read, I >don't think you can impugn his integrity. > >Oh yeah -- the folks who invented Clipper aren't stupid. If you think >something doesn't make sense, it's almost certainly because you don't >understand their goals. > This is an addition (posted with permission) to some tech. details of cliper. They enligthen ??? the use of S1 and S2 for keygeneration. ------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 08:51:57 EDT From: denning@cs.cosc.georgetown.edu (Dorothy Denning) Subject: Re: Clipper Chip I just had another conversation with NSA to clarify some of the features of Clipper. Please feel free to distribute this and my other messages on Clipper. The name of the encryption algorithm is ""Skipjack."" Martin Hellman had written and the serial number of the unit added to produce a three part message which will then be encrypted under the system key SK producing E{ E[M; K], E[K; UK], serial number; SK} To which I responded: My understanding is that E[M; K] is not encrypted under SK (called the ""family key"") and that the decrypt key corresponding to SK is held by law enforcement. Does anyone have first hand knowledge on this? I was correct in that E[M; K] is not encrypted under SK. However, Skipjack being a single-key system, there is, of course, not a separate decrypt key for the family key SK. The unit key, also called the ""chip key,"" is generated from the serial number N as follows. Let N1, N2, and N3 be 64 bit blocks derived from N, and let S1 and S2 be two 80-bit seeds used as keys. Compute the 64-bit block R1 = E[D[E[N1; S1]; S2]; S1] (Note that this is like using the DES in triple encryption mode with two keys.) Similarly compute blocks R2 and R3 starting with N2 and N3. (I'm unlear about whether the keys S1 and S2 change. The fact that they're called seeds suggests they might.) Then R1, R2, and R3 are concatenated together giving 192 bits. The first 80 bits form K1 and the next 80 bits form K2. The remaining bits are discarded. The seeds S1 and S2 do not change. The whole process is performed on a laptop computer, and S1 and S2 are supplied by two independent people so that no one person knows both. The same S1 and S2 are used during an entire ""programming session"" to generate keys for a stream of serial numbers. Everything is discarded at the end (the computer could be thrown out if desired). The serial number is 30 bits and the values N1, N2, and N3 are formed by padding the serial number with fixed 34-bit blocks (separate padding for each value). The resulting keys K1 and K2 are output onto separate floppy disks, paired up with their serial number. Each pair is stored in a separate file. The floppy disks are taken away by two separate people on behalf of the two escrow agencies. Dorothy Denning denning@cs.georgetown.edu -------------------------------------------------------- I am sure more technical detail will be known when time goes by. Please remark, that in posting this, I do not automatically agree with it's contents and implications. So don't swamp my mailbox :-) I just think this is an valuable addition to the less than technical discussion that is rising here. And, no, I don't mind if you call S1 and S2 'backdoor', as I could imagine the key-generation process working without these seeds and the dependency of K1,K2 from the Serial-Number. Friendly greetings, Germano Caronni -- Instruments register only through things they're designed to register. Space still contains infinite unknowns. PGP-Key-ID:341027 Germano Caronni caronni@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch FD560CCF586F3DA747EA3C94DD01720F ",11 "STARGARDTS DISEASE Thanks to aldridge@netcom.com, I now know a bit more about Stargardt's disease, aka juvenile macular distrophy, but I would like to learn more. First, what is the general prognosis - is blindness the result? Second, what treatments, if any, are available? -- The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac ",13 "Micro World Data Bank II ? I'm looking for a database called ""Micro World Data Bank II"", a database with digital map information containing 178,068 latitude, longitude points. It is said to be in the public domain. If anyone knows a place where I can get it (preferably FTP/gopher/mailserver etc.; otherwise snail mail) please let me know. I you have it yourself and are willing to send me the file, drop me a line. I'll be using it with a program called VERSAMAP by Charles H. Culberson. If anyone knows of another detailed database that can be used with this program (preferably PD), I would be very interested. Replies by e-mail please, directly to me, I don't read this group regularly. If there's interest I'll post a summary, of course. -- Derk Ederveen (FidoNet 2:283/323) tel. +31-70-3323202 D.N.M.Ederveen@research.ptt.nl / ederveen@hlsdnl5.bitnet fax. +31-70-3326477 x400: /c=nl/admd=400net/prmd=ptt research/o=ptt research/s=ederveen/i=dnm ** ""I wish I was a warrior, in every language that I speak"" - Lou Reed ** ",1 "X Error of failed request: BadPixmap (invalid Pixmap parameter) Could someone PLEASE give a guess as to why this simple little program causes a BadPixmap error on the FOURTH (bizarre???) call to XtRelaizeWidget()? Here is the code: int stoploop = 0; static void Callback(Widget, XtPointer, XtPointer); main() { XtToolkitInitialize(); XtAppContext app = XtCreateApplicationContext(); while (1) { int junk = 0; Display *dis = XtOpenDisplay(app, NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL, 0, &junk, NULL); Widget top = XtAppCreateShell(NULL, NULL, applicationShellWidgetClass, dis, NULL, 0); Widget box = XtVaCreateManagedWidget(""x"", xmPushButtonWidgetClass, top, XmNheight, 25, XmNwidth, 25, NULL); XtAddCallback(box, XmNactivateCallback, Callback, NULL); XtRealizeWidget(top); while (!stoploop) { XEvent event; XtAppNextEvent(app, &event); XtDispatchEvent(&event); } stoploop = 0; XtReleaseGC(top, XDefaultGCOfScreen(XtScreen(top))); // needed? XtDestroyWidget(top); XtCloseDisplay(dis); } } static void Callback(Widget, XtPointer, XtPointer) { stoploop = 1; } The error I get (yes, the 4TH time I try to show the box) is: X Error of failed request: BadPixmap (invalid Pixmap parameter) Major opcode of failed request: 55 (X_CreateGC) Resource id in failed request: 0xd0000d Serial number of failed request: 71 Current serial number in output stream: 85 Please respond via email. Thanks very, very much! (NOTE: I realize this program does nothing useful, its an ultra-trivialized version fo a real library routine) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",5 "a few CDs for sale (brand new) $6.95 each. add $1.05 for postage (4th class), that makes it $8. All these 5 discs are still shrink wrapped (1) Kathleen Battle,Wynton Marsalis Baroque Duet Sony Classical (2) David Sanborn, Upfront Elektra (2) Kenny G Live Arista (3) Jimmy Buffett,Songs You know by heart/greatest hits MCA Records (4) Billy Ray Cyrus, Some Gave All Mercury (5) En Vogue, Funky Divas Eastwest Records ",6 "The verdict is in (Rodney King) The federal civil rights trial against the four LA police officers accused of violating Rodney King's civil rights is now history: Lawrence Powell: guilty Stacey Coons: guilty Theodore Brazenio: innocent Timothy Wind: innocent Sentencing slated for mid August, appeals expected. So far, all is calm in LA... -- Michael Thomas (mike@gordian.com) ""I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."" -- Hobbes to Calvin USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca, 92707-5637 PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax) ",18 "Re: Tektronix In article <930424212154.1000227@tgv.com> mahan@TGV.COM (Patrick L. Mahan) writes: ># I remember seeing something in the X distribution mentioning support ># for a Tektronix terminal in an X server. Is this accurate? >Xterm supports 401x emulation. What I was talking about was using an Tek terminal as your X display. I should be possible to write an X server that does this as far as I can tell, but what I'm asking is if there is already one. -- mike@hopper.acs.virginia.edu ""I will NOT raise taxes on the middle class."" -Unknown ",5 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters How energetic could they be? In article <1993Apr26.200406.1@vax1.mankato.msus.edu> belgarath@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes: >In article <1rgvjsINNbhq@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr) writes: >> >> >> How much energy does a burster put out? I know energy depends on >> distance, which is unknown. An answer of the form _X_ ergs per >> megaparsec^2 is OK. >> >different spheres: R=.25pc(Oort Cloud Radius), R=22.5pc(at the edge of the >galaxy), R=183.5pc or the edge of the galactic corona, and lastly at a >R=8800Mpc. > For a radius of .25 pc, we found an L around 10^32 erg/sec. Pretty >energetic for close by. for the coronal model, we found around 10^43 erg/sec. >And lastly, for the cosmological model an L=10^53. That's what you'd call >moderately energetic, I'd say. Any suggestions about what could put out that >much energy in one second? > -jeremy > > Supernovae put out 10^53 or 10^54 (i forget which, but it's only an order of magnitude...). Not in gamma rays, though. You'd hafta get all of that into gammas if they were at 9 Mpc, but if a decent fraction of the SN output was in gammas it could reasonably be extragalactic (but closer than 9 Mpc). I dunno SN theory so well, but I can't think of how to get many gammas out. Maybe I should look it up. Big radio galaxies can put out 10^46 erg/s *continually*. That's just in the radio... there are a lot of gammas around them, too, but ""bursts""? Nah. Neither of these should be taken as explanations... just trying to show that those energies *are* produced by things we know about. greg ",14 "Nintendo system + power pad + light gun + games = $80 Nintendo 8 bit system, power pad, light gun (zapper), 2 controllers Games: Supermario, duck hunt, power field, and wings. Asking $80. Please reply to hv0@psuvm.psu.edu ",6 "Cards sweep LA, Mets lose, Life is GOOD! Just a few lines about my favorite team sweeping the Dodgers (one of my least favorite) in LA (Sweet!). Also the Mets (my other least favorite team) loss to the Rockies made this this a great day and a great start to the weekend as the Cardinals are on the ESPN tonight. Big Lee Smith is having a great start and the Cardinals seem to be hitting in the clutch even though they have had a few games with lots of hits and not many runs. Hopefully with the coaches stress on situational hitting in spring training, the runners LOB will be lower this year (probably due to the high strikeout numbers by Jose and Lankford and Zeile's off year). I don't know why all the fuss about the Fillies. The media and all the Filly fans on r.s.b forget who is right behind them in the standings. Give the Wild Thing a week or two before he starts blowing some games and we'll see who is in first then. I believe the Cardinal pitching staff is more complete than the Filly staff and that will make the difference. On a side note, a few years ago (5-6), a comment was made by some baseball player or manager about the Dodger defense. He was asked where to hit the ball against the Dodgers and he replied ""Fair."" I remember it being in the ""They Said It"" section of Sports Illustrated. I would like to know who said it and what issue it was in. GO REDBIRDS!! Gary Wieman ",9 "Goalie Mask Update Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for 1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And.. if the guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the team! Thanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes! Player Team Pts Votes ----------------------------------------------------------- 1. Brian Hayward San Jose 15 6 Andy Moog Boston 15 6 3. Curtis Joseph St. Louis 11 5 4. Ed Belfour Chicago 10 5 5. Gerry Cheevers Boston (retired) 5 3 Manon Rheaume Atlanta (IHL) 5 2 Ron Hextall Quebec 5 2 8. Don Beaupre Washington 4 2 ----------------------------------------------------------- Others receiving 1 vote: Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det), Clint Malarchuck (Buf/SD,IHL), Grant Fuhr (Buf), Rick Wamsley (Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), John Vanbiesbrouck (NYR), Ken Dryden (Mon,ret), Bob Essensa (Win), Mike Vernon (Cal), Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA). -- GO SKINS! ||""Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite GO BRAVES! || an effect on you?"" - Mike Patton, Faith No More GO HORNETS! || GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu ",10 "need shading program example in X Do anyone know about any shading program based on Xlib in the public domain? I need an example about how to allocate correct colormaps for the program. Appreciate the help. Howard. ",5 "Re: Dogs vs. Bikes Dogs will chase anything that moves. I have two dogs and they love chasing me when I ride off. They will also chase any car that passes , running along the footpath/sidewalk at up to 60kph. They don't seem to go after trucks though, the size difference must be a factor. It also works in my favour though, I can exercise them quite easily by riding 1/2 mile up the road and back a few times. JA (s851708@minyos.rmit.oz.au) ",8 "Re: HELP: Need 24 bits viewer In article <5713@seti.inria.fr>, deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud) writes: >I'm looking for a program which is able to display 24 bits >images. We are using a Sun Sparc equipped with Parallax >graphics board running X11. Utah raster toolkit using getx11. Convert your sun raster files (presumably) to ppm with the pbm+ toolkit then convert ppm to utah rle format with ppmtorle which is provided in the toolkit. I seem to remember that Xloadimage can do 24 bit servers too. Possibly xwud the x window un-dump program can display 24 bit images; certainly xwd can grab them. -- Chris Lilley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, Manchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk Voice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",1 "Red Sox Choke Contest To encourage the great tradition of Red Sox negativism, I am having a contest to predict the magnitude of the Sox' fall from their current heights. You must decide first, whether the Sox will be at .500 again at any time during this year. Then you must predict either: (1) Their record the first time they're at .500, if they are, or (2) Their final record, if they stay above .500 the rest of the year. So Valentine's earlier prediction would go as ""13-13"" (resend it if you were serious, Val!). ESPN pointed out last night that the last Sox start better than this was in 1952, when they finished 76-78, in sixth place. So email me your guess, either at ""barring@cs.washington.edu"" or directly replying to this post. Entries close 5 pm PDT on Wed 28 Apr 1993. Dave MB ",9 "Re: Why do people become atheists? In article Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza) writes: >I am interested in finding out why people become >atheists after having believed in some god/God. >In conversing with them on other groups, I've >often sensed anger or hostility. Though I don't >mean to imply that all atheists are angry or hostile, >it does seem to be one motivation for giving up >faith. Thus, some atheism might result from >broken-ness. I'd like to field this one, if I may. Although I am a believer in and follower of Christ, my experiences with religion haven't been all that positive. In fact, there was one point in my life when, for about three days, I simply _couldn't_ believe in the existence of God. Anyway, when I look back upon the troubles I've had, they seem to fall into two categories -- impulses to unbelief that resulted from logical contradictions, and impulses to unbelief that resulted from frustration with God. The first category doesn't occur to me much anymore, as I have worked through most of the arguments for the non-existence of God. But way back when, these would cause me some problems, and I would have to struggle with my faith to continue to believe. I can see where others less stubborn than I (and I do mean stubborn. Stubborness has often been the only thing standing between me an atheism from time to time) would fail. The second category arises out of some long-term personal difficulties and the struggle to live my life as God would have me live it WITHOUT living my life as others would tell me how God would have me live it. A good example of this is my struggle with the more radical Christians I meet. I am not, nor have I ever been, ""on fire for Chirst,"" and I don't think I ever want to be. Nevertheless, I am not ""lukewarm"" about my faith, so I don't really fit in with the mainstream either. Quite naturally, I feel a lot of anxiety about my dislocation within Christian society, and it can lead to a lot of internal tension, when I want to do what I _know_ is right, but when another part of me believes that what I want to do is wrong because all the other Christians think so to. Quite naturally, this tension has a destructive effect on my relationship with God, and during all of this internal strife, there's atheism sitting there like the promised land -- no rules, no responsibilities, no need to live up to anyone's expectations but my own. Complete freedom. Of course, it's all an illusion, but nevertheless, it's a very appealing illusion, especially when the so-called ""people of God"" are behaving like total twits. I can easily understand why someone would go that route, and would be hostile to ever coming back. IMHO, many of the former-Christians-turned-atheists-who-are-now-actively- hostile-to-Christianity are so because their experience with Christ and God wasn't a very peaceful one, but one of mind-control and ""shut-up-and-do-what- you're-told-because-we-know-what's-best-for-you-because-it's-God's-will-and- you're-to-young-to-know-what-God's-will-is-yet"" courtesy of some of Christ's more overzealous followers. A final reason why people become atheists is because Christians do not have a very good reputation right now. One of the things that attracted people to Christianity in the ancient days was the love that Christians obviously had for one another and the world around them. Unlike the rest of the world, Christian communities actively cared for their poor, and the Christian rich did not trod on the backs of their poorer brothers, but bent down to help them. Christians were known for living exemplary lives, even if they were thought to be traitors to the state because they wouldn't sacrifice to the emporer. Nowadays, courtesy of the media and some Christian leaders who lost Christ on their way to power, people see Christians as sexually-repressed hippocritical busibodies who want to remake society into a facist version of their own moral view. There are a lot more reasons why people become atheists, but I don't have time to go into them right now. Tom Ault ",15 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 (SILLY) Well, 42 is 101010 binary, and who would forget that its the answer to the Question of ""Life, the Universe, and Everything else."" That is to quote Douglas Adams in a round about way. Of course the Question has not yet been discovered... -- Mark A. Cartwright, N5SNP University of Texas @ Austin Computation Center, Graphics Facility markc@emx.utexas.edu markc@sirius.cc.utexas.edu markc@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (512)-471-3241 x 362 PP-ASEL 9-92 a.) ""Often in error, never in doubt."" b.) ""This situation has no gravity, I would like a refund please."" ",1 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article <2073@rwing.UUCP> pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes: :If the Clinton Clipper is so very good, why not make its algrithm public :so many people can exchange ideas and examine it, rather than a few :isolated 'respected experts' (respected by whom? for what? Perhaps a :certain professor who likes key banks would be one of the selected :experts... this does seem to expand on some ideas the person was :advocating, if I recall :-). How would anybody know that what the Actually, I am *completely* baffled by why Dorothy Denning has chosen to throw away her academic respectability like this. It looks to me like a *major* Career Limiting Move. There can be very few people who know what she's been saying who take her seriously any more. I wonder if she landed such a fat fee from cooperation with the NSA in the design and propoganda stages that she doesn't care any more? G ",11 "re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. >Microsoft is the largest software company on the planet, yet I cannot think >of even *ONE* computing concept that they innovated and brought to market >before anyone else. Xerox-PARC/Apple, Osborne, NeXT, GNU and others have >been pioneers and led the way to the future of computing. What has >microsoft done to be a technological leader? I posted this question before, >but I got nary a reply. I make the challenge now to anyone who can come up >with something-especially Microsoft employees. I get no response this time, >I guess it pretty much assures me that there is none--which is what I >suspect anyway. > Really when you come down to it who cares. I just hope MS keeps doing what they do best getting usable productive software to the masses. Thx Dave L ",2 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qie61$fkt@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >Objective morality is morality built from objective values. And organized religion is a religion built from organized values. And Ford Tempo is a Tempo built from Ford values. And rational response is response built from rational values. And unconditional surrender is surrender built from unconditional values. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ uncle! bye -jim halat ",19 "Pioneer Double Cassette Deck Pioneer CT-W601R Double Cassette Deck -Auto BLE Tuning -CD Deck Syncro Recording -music search, high speed dubbing, other standard features. Less than one year old. Excellent condition. $200 firm. -Hans Meyer ",6 "Re: Game Length (was Re: Braves Update!! nflynn@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes: >In article <1993Apr19.194025.8967@adobe.com>, >snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes: > [stuff about Ron Gant incident deleted] >> A reasonable umpire would do as he's been instructed to do this season: get >> the batters back in the box sooner to try to cut down on the ridiculous >> length of games. I for one am glad to see this happen, (!!!!) > I agree that Hirschbeck was just doing what he was instructed to do >and also that Gant should have listened to him. However, what is with this >policy of trying to speed up the games. You are the first person >( non-mediot ) I have seen endorse this policy. I have no problem with the >length of games at all and am tired of the ESPN crowd ( and other announcers ) >bitching about it. I have never been in a ballpark filled with people looking >at their watches and shouting ""Hurry up!"" If I cough up big bucks for a >ticket, I don't mind a game that last more than 2:10. I really don't >understand it. > Games are longer now for several reasons:...[stuff deleted] > Maybe I am just a ne'er-do-well with nothing better to do, but I >would like to hear reasons why the longer games upset you. Well, I don't want shorter games *per se*, but I would like for them to stop *wasting* so much time during games. The Gant incident is a perfect example. When a guy comes to the plate, he should be up there to hit, not show off (or show up the umpire, which is clearly what Gant was doing). I feel like writing a fan letter to Hirschbeck. Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com For purposes of action, nothing is more useful than narrowness of thought combined with energy of will. - Henri Frederick Amile ",9 "Re: Overreacting (was Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more) In article <1993Apr27.190451.25650@lehman.com> pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) writes: > >No one has mentioned violence other than you, Mr. Han. I believe you >are imagining things. This is factually incorrect. There was at least one message that said that Waco and Clipper justified ""anything"" in response. David -- David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of our information, errors and omissions excepted. ",11 "Alomar vs. Baerga - I was hoping to stay out of this. (Lyford ""Frosty"" Beverage) writes: |> Uh, yes. Baerga has a lot of flash, but Alomar was the better hitter |> last year. |> |> BATTERS BA SLG OBP G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS E |> BAERGA,C .312 .455 .354 161 657 92 205 299 32 1 20 105 35 76 10 2 19 |> ALOMAR,R .310 .427 .405 152 571 105 177 244 27 8 8 76 87 52 49 9 5 |> >This is fascinating. You say that Alomar was the better hitter last >year, and immediately follow that up with numbers showing that Baerga >had a better year. The only category that I see which shows an advantage >for Alomar is OBP. Well, OBP is the most important offensive statistic, and by a big margin. 50 points of OBP is worth considerably more than 50 points of slugging. That being said, I still think Baerga was VERY SLIGHTLY better last year, but I think this is as close to a wash as you're likely to find. I personally don't care much for Alomar's defense. I don't think he's nearly as good as people make him out to be, and he can't turn the DP to save his life. He comes across the bag improperly, and his release is slow. Considering the high leverage of the DP, this is a shortcoming I can't overlook. In the long term, I'd move Alomar to another position. If the Jays could trade a hot Devon White for something, I'll be Alomar could be a hell of a CF. In the long run, I think I'd rather have Jeff Kent at 2B and Alomar in CF than Alomar/White. -- * Gary Huckabay * ""You think that's loud enough, a$$hole?"" * * ""Movie Rights * ""Well, if you're having trouble hearing it, sir, * * available thru * I'd be happy to turn it up for you. I didn't * * Ted Frank."" * know that many people your age liked King's X."" * ",9 "Re: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help! I don't know about where you are, but here in California false representation of odometer readings is a criminal felony. If you can substantiate this, you need to report that dealer to the local authorities. You should consult with a lawyer to tell you what civil action you can take as well. Keep in mind that you will have to prove that the dealer was aware of the change in the dashboard. Brian Donnell ",7 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In <1993Apr15.010933.23524@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith ""Justified And Ancient"" Cochran) writes: >[Note: Followups out of talk.abortion] >In article lis450bw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (lis450 Student) writes: >>Hmmmm. Define objective morality. Well, depends upon who you talk to. >Sounds pretty subjective to me... >-- It certainly does. There are all shades and flavors and varieties of religion, so you can find whatever you are interested in. There is certainly not 100% consensus among theists as to an objective moral standard. MAC >=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC= >=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???= >=""Do you have some pumps and a purse in this shade? A perfume that whispers, = >='please come back to me'? I'm looking for something in Green.""-Laurie Morgan= -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",0 "Re: Davidians and compassion In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >So we have this highly Christian religious order that put fire >on their house, killing most of the people inside. > >I'm not that annoyed about the adults, they knew supposedly what >they were doing, and it's their own actions. > >What I mostly are angry about is the fact that the people inside, >including mothers, let the children suffer and die during awful >conditions. > >If this is considered religious following to the end, I'm proud >that I don't follow such fanatical and non-compassionate religions. > >You might want to die for whatever purpose, but please spare >the innocent young ones that has nothing to do with this all. > >I have a hard time just now understanding that Christianity >knows about the word compassion. Christians, do you think >the actions today would produce a good picture of your >religion? > > >Kent > >--- >sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. Surely you are not equating David Koresh with Christianity? The two are not comparable. ",19 "Re: Cultural Enquiries In article <1993Apr5.094451.8144@aber.ac.uk> azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) writes: >I am getting bored with winding up Americans. Its like bombing fish >in a barrel. Or little children at the market. (Or is that the Irish? Hard to keep all you not-really-English types straight.) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Robinson UUCP: ucbvax!cogsci!robinson INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu ",8 "Looking for a person [VHS for sale] I am looking for a person who made an offer of $50 for five of my VHS movies. I was not able to save the e-mail address of this person. It has been a week since we made the deal, please reply. The five movies are Basic Instinct Born on the Forth of July Backdraft The Prince of Tides Presumed Innocent Douglas Kou Hiram College ",6 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1993Apr16.173720.19151@scic.intel.com> sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth J. Bradley) writes: >In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >>Why isn't this falsifiable? I.E. There is no God, the world has existed forever >>and had no starting point. ? > >How does one falsify God's existance? This, again, is a belief, not a scien- >tific premise. The original thread referred specifically to ""scientific >creationism"". This means whatever theory or theories you propose must be >able to be judged by the scientific method. This is in contrast to >purely philosophical arguments. If given a definite definition of ""God"", it is sometimes possible to falsify the existance of that God. But, when one refuses to give an immutable definition, one can not. --- "" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. "" John Laws, a man without the honor to keep his given word. ",19 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article srini@ecf.toronto.edu (KANDALA SRINIVAS) writes: >>>My reference is a 4 page essay in our local Star Tribute newspaper >>>putting the whole conflict in perspective. I will readily admit >>>that I am no authority in this area; however, other posteers >>>asserted that *some* Muslims did join hands with Croats and >>>Nazis in persecuting Serbs. In any case, past actions do not >> >>And the best evidence you can find is second hand hearsay from >>an unnamed source? You may indeed be confusing *some* Muslims >>with Nazi Armenians. Altogether 30,000 Nazi Armenians served in >>various units in the German Wehrmacht, according to Ara J. Berkian. >>14,000 in predominantly Armenian army units, 6,000 in German army >>units, 8,000 in various working units and 2,000 in the Waffen-SS.[1] >amazing! how the discussions change from one topic to another :) I really disagree with you. But maybe you know better. Here is the issue at hand: 'After all, who remembers today the extermination of the Tartars?' (Adolf Hitler, August 22, 1939: Ruth W. Rosenbaum (Durusoy), ""The Turkish Holocaust - Turk Soykirimi"", p. 213.) ""The crime of systematic cleansing by mass killing and extermination of the Muslim population in Soviet Republic of Armenia, Karabag, Bosnia and Herzegovina is an 'Islamic Holocaust' comparable to the extermination of 2.5 million Muslims by the Armenian Government during the WWI and of over 6 million European Jews during the WWII."" (Tovfik Kasimov - Azeri Leader - September 25, 1992) ""Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan, are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these lands."" (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992) Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "9600bps v.32 modem To: All GVC Technologies v.32 9600bps modem 9600/4800/2400/1200/300 bps operation with Automatic Speed Selection. CCITT v.32/v.22bis/v.22/v.21 full-duplex operation. Asynchronous operation. Auto-answer & auto-dial: automatically switch between data and voice transmission. Supports COM port 1-4, and IRQ 2-5 Analog/digital/remote digital loopback test modes. Communication by Crosstalk software and manual included. Modem manual & warranty registration card included. (Optional CCITT v.42bis/v.42/MNP 2-5 module, providing error correction and data compression to increase throughput up to 38,400 bps, available directly from the manufacturer.) Mint condition. $125. DO NOT REPLY TO: dino.fiabane@pics.com. Your mail will bounce if it is sent to that address. Instead, please reply only via private E-Mail to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com (Since my home BBS can only handle personal messages through E-Mail for the time being, any further replies from me to you will also arrive via E-Mail instead of by way of a regular newsgroup.) Dino Fiabane, 150 Weston Drive, Cherry Hill, NJ 08003-2132 phone (609) 424-3836 * SLMR 2.1a * reply to: pics!dino.fiabane@twwells.com via E-Mail ---- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pics OnLine MultiUser System (609)753-2540 HST 609-753-1549 (V32) | | Massive File Collection - Over 45,000 Files OnLine - 250 Newsgroups | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",6 "Re: Trivia question In article <1993Apr23.102811.623@sei.cmu.edu> caj@sei.cmu.edu (Carol Jarosz) writes: > >While watching the Penguins/Devils game last night, I saw the ""slash"" that >Barrasso took on the neck. This brought to mind the goaltender who had his >jugular vein cut by a skate. I think he was a Sabre, but I'm not positive. >Does anyone remember/know his name? What has happened to him since? What >about the player whose skate cut the goalie? Name? Info? That was Clint Malarchuk. That was a very dangerous accident. He could he died right there on the ice. However, he has played since but I don't know where he is now. I think he is still playing but I'm not positive. He was a Sabre at the time. I don't know who skated into him though. >Has this ever happened before in a hockey game? > I remember a couple of seasons before the Malarchuk incident Borje Salming of Toronto fell down in the crease and someone skated into his face. That took a lot of stiches to fix. >Thanks, > >Carol >Go Pens! Liam Go Toronto (they'd better start going soon)! ",10 "Re: Why the drive speeds differ?? The most likely explanation may have something to do with the fact that a greater density of information exists on the larger capacity disk drive than the smaller one. If your running the drive on a Mac I would recommend a shareware utility called Timedrive which tests seek, SCSI throughput and rotational speed. This utility should let you know what the differences are between the drives. *************************************************************************** The views expressed in this posting those of the individual author only. [BBS Number:(613) 848-1346 MacContent is VictoriaÕs first Iconic BBS!] *************************************************************************** ",4 "XLib and 24 Bit Displays [Info Needed] Hi, My name is rahul and I am doing MS at USU, Logan My query is: I have a HP workstation: HP Series 400 with X running on it. I have a true color - 24bit color monitor connected to this machine. Normally I have the capability to display 256 colors from a max of 16.7 million. Since the monitor is True Color I can see 16.7 million at a time. Que: do we have a facility in X(c-function call) that will enable me to specify any RGB combination and see it on screen? I am using XStoreColor to set the pallette of a max of 256 colors. Que: If not. Is there any way I can display a true color image on a true color monitor using XLib function calls? We are generating ray traced images and 256 colors are indeed a painful limit. besides I need the facility to display the true color images i will be generating on a true color system WITHOUT color quantification. Please, if anyone can help i'd be obliged Rahul sl0pr@cc.usu.edu ",1 "Re: Hell Quoth the Moderator: >I have to say that I some qualms about giving you this explanation, >because it raises additional problems: If God is the source of all >existence, then a complete separation from him would make existence >itself impossible. So, does God maintain just enough connection with >those who are rejected to keep them in existence so he can punish >them? In a short poem (""God in His mercy made / the fixed pains of Hell""), C. S. Lewis expresses an idea that I'm sure was current among others, but I haven't be able to find its source: that even Hell is an expression of mercy, because God limits the amount of separation from Him, and hence the amount of agony, that one can achieve. -- :- Michael A. Covington internet mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : ********* :- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",15 "Re: Final Solution for Gaza ? The honest answer to your question about Arabs who were expelled from Jaffa, and/or who fled Jaffa, or anywhere else in Israel, having the right to return is: Yes, unfortunately, they have the right to return. They may apply for citizenship like any other non-Israeli and then go to >Jaffa and try to buy their house back from the Jews who now own it. And now a question and answer for you: Can the Jews who were born and raised in Hebron, or their descendants go back to THEIR homes in Hebron? The answer is: absolutely NOT, because they were almost all murdered by their Arab neighbors - the ""palestinians"". Now, do I think the Arabs should be allowed to even visit ""their"" homes in Jaffa? Hell, no. Bring back the Jews of Hebron, Petah Tikva, Jerusalem, Safed, etc. Then, perhaps I would be in favor of Arabs returning to their Jaffa homes. However, seeing as no Arab has yet been able to bring people back from the dead, I'd say that's out. With all the hope in the world, Nissan Ratzlav-Katz nraclaw@jade.tufts.edu ",17 "Philips 17"" monitor Does anybody have an opinion on the Philips 1762DT 17"" monitor? How does it compare to the Nanao 17""? I am looking for a good 17"" (like many other net'ers) and found a good price for the Philips. Here some the specs: Sony Trinitron tube digital micro control 1280x1024 NI .25 dp 300x225 mm display area to 100 Hz refresh anti-glare, MPR-II... auto-scan 30-64 kHz Why don't I ever see this monitor for sale (ONE company in Apr computer shopper) What is the 1764DC? What is the best price around for this?.... and how 'bout that MAG 17""? I love my MAG 15"" (except for that little color alignment thing on the l/r edges)... -- _______________________________________- Brian Schaufenbuel____________________ | Brian J Schaufenbuel [ ""There is no art which one government sooner learns ] | Helser 3644 Halsted [ than that of draining money from the pockets of the ] | Ames, Ia 50012 [ people [especially college students]."" - Adam Smith ] ",3 "LAST CHANCE --> 20 Playboy Magazines My roommate left me his Playboy collection which he no longer wants, so I'm offering them to the general public. (THAT'S YOU!) MAKE AN OFFER FOR THE *ENTIRE COLLECTION* ** The Current Best Offer is $40 + shipping ** I will accept the best offer. (Offer does *NOT* include cheapest method of shipping from Bethlehem, PA) 1992: February (Supermodel Rachel Williams, World Tour, & POM Tanya Beyer) 1991: May (Shannon & Tracy Tweed & POM Carrie Jean Yazel) July (Tall girls, Miss Bulgaria, & POM Wendy Kaye) September (Barbi twins & POM Samantha Dorman) November (La Toya Jackson & POM Tonja Marie Christensen) December (Dian Parkinson from ""The Price is Right"" & POM Wendy Hamilton) 1990: July (Sharon Stone, Marilyn look-alike, & POM Jacqueline Sheen) October (Girls of the Big West, Gladiator Marisa Pare, & POM Brittany York) November (Teri Copley from ""We Got It Made"", Sex in Cinema, & POM Lorraine Olivia, stewardess) 1989: January (35th Anniversary Issue - Collector's Edition) February (Year in Sex, Rio's Grand, & POM Simone Eden) March (La Toya Jackson & POM Laurie Wood) August (Women of Wall St., Diana Lee from ""License to Kill"", & POM Gianna Amore) November (Donna Mills, Sex in Cinema '89, & POM Renee Tenison) 1988: August (Sunshine Girls & POM Helle Michaelsen) October (Girls of the Southwest Conference & POM Shannon Long) November (Women of Washington, Sex in Cinema '88, & POM Pia Reyes) December (Playmate Review, Sex Stars of '88, Lysette Anthony, & POM Kata Karkkainen) 1987: November (Jessica Hahn, Sex in Cinema '87, & POM Pam Stein) Also: *** Special Edition: ""Playboy Presents: 100 Beautiful Women"" *** -- ____________________________ BSME/MBA looking for a job....hiring? / | *----------------------------------------* E-mail: jwg0@Lehigh.edu | | Take a walk on the Wild side...Biffman Lehigh University /o)\ | *----------------------------------------* Bethlehem, PA USA \(o/ | J o H n G e W a R t O w S k I \____________________________| ",6 "Re: Binyamin Netanyahu on CNN tonight. Great interview with Benjamin Netanyahu on CNN - Larry King Live (4/15/93) This guy is knows what he is talking about. He is truely charismatic, articulate, intelligent, and demonstrates real leadership qualities. ",18 "IRWIN tapes (DC2120s) for sale Well, if you have an IRWIN 250 MB, here is a great deal for you: Genuine IRWIN accuTRAK 120-250 tapes, $16/ea 3M DC2120 tapes. $16/ea All the avove tapes are new, never used, and factory preformatted. Email if interested. Feng -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 ",6 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? -- Douglas C. Meier | You can't play Electro-magnetic Golf Northwestern University, ACNS | according to the rules of Centrifugal This University is too Commie- | Bumblepuppy. -Huxley, Brave New World Lib Pinko to have these views. | dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu ",19 "Re: What counntries do space surveillance? In article <15657.2bd7de55@cpva.saic.com>, thomsonal@cpva.saic.com writes: [ stuff deleted ] |> |> |> This leads to the more general question: do yet other people than |> the US, Russia, and Japan do space surveillance, and if so, how and |> why? |> |> Allen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA, USA The French SPOT is an example that comes to mind. Although the company (name escapes me at the moment) sells images world-wide, you can bet your last dollar (franc??) that the French gov't gets first dibs. I remember a few years ago (about the time SPOT was launched), I was speaking to my Dad (an USAF officer) about this and that, and I happend to mention SPOT (I think we were talking about technology utilization). He just about went ballistic. He wanted to know how I knew about SPOT and just what I knew. I guess that space surveillance is such a sensitive topic in the Air Force that he couldn't believe that I would read about such a system in the popular press (ie. AV week). mark, -- ===================================================================== Mark L. Littlefield Intelligent Systems Department internet: mll@aio.jsc.nasa.gov USsnail: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences 2400 Nasa Rd 1 / MC C-19 Houston, TX 77058-3711 ==================================================================== ",14 "Re: Final Solution for Gaza ? Center for Policy Research writes... >Subject: Final Solution for Gaza ? > > >Final Solution for the Gaza ghetto ? >------------------------------------ > >While Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they >repress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and >attempt to starve the Gazans. Your comparison with the Warsaw Ghetto uprising is insulting, and racist beyond belief. The attempts to quiet any violence in the Gaza Strip are just that. The efforts to quell murder and mayhem in the Gaza strip were the resluts of violence and came AFTER the violence. It was not an arbitrary racial move like the nazi treatment of Jews. Jews had NOT committed acts of violence and murder as have the residents of Gaza. I find your eagerness to ignore the acts of murder nothing more than anti-Israel bigotry. >The Gaza strip, this tiny area of land with the highest population >density in the world, has been cut off from the world for weeks. >The Israeli occupier has decided to punish the whole population of >Gaza, some 700.000 people, by denying them the right to leave the >strip and seek work in Israel. It is NOT punishment, but protection from repeated attacks by residents of Gaza. You self-servingly omit any references to WHY Israel has had to take action. Apparaently the deaths of innocent Israeli civilians do not enter into your equation, a racist ommission on your part. >While Polish non-Jews risked their lives to save Jews from the >Ghetto, no Israeli Jew is known to have risked his life to help >the Gazan resistance. The only help given to Gazans by Israeli >Jews, only dozens of people, is humanitarian assistance. > >The right of the Gazan population to resist occupation is >recognized in international law and by any person with a sense of >justice. A population denied basic human rights is entitled to >rise up against its tormentors. The right of Israel to protect its citizens from murderers is also recognized by international law. Israeli civilians have been getting stabbed to death on a daily basis. If this wave of murder does not matter to you, then your posturing for the basic human rights you claim matter so much to you is nothing but an anti-Israel charade. >As is known, the Israeli regime is considering Gazans unworthy of >Israeli citizenship and equal rights in Israel, although they are >considered worthy to do the dirty work in Israeli hotels, shops >and fields. Do you know of residents of Gaza who have applied for Israeli citizenship and were denied? I have heard of no such denials taking place. Can you document this, or is this more of your stupid and innacurate propaganda? The truth is that if Gazan residents applied for citizenship, HAMAS would murder them as collaborators. Many Gazans are born in towns and villages located in >Israel. They may not live there, for these areas are reserved for >the Master Race. How dare you use such a disgusting phrase. How very easy you attack a people, when you omit facts which fly in the face of your pure racism. Perhaps you are judging a people to be the racists that you are. Do you believe that all Jews must have the same bigoted makeup as you? Here's another little fly in your ointment, about the 'master race,' for you to avoid... Two months ago a plane with 86 Bosnian Muslims left Bosnia to seek asylum in the middle east. Four Arab nations refused to grant them asylum. Then when Israli Arabs agreed to take the responsibility for them, they were allowed into Israel. Yes, Israel. But when the plane landed, the Israeli Arabs who had previously agreed to take care of them refused to be involved with the rescue project, because they felt that it would make Israel look good. It was more important to avoid any good PR for Israel than to take care of fellow Muslims. Israel moved them to a kibbutz, where they are safe and secure. The truth is that time after time the Islamic world has turned its back on Muslims in need more than Israel has. Even in the case of the 400 deportees, Lebanon was willing to let their so-called Arab brothers freeze to death rather than give them sanctuary in Lebanon. Nearly twice as many Palestinians have been murdered by other Palestinians than in confrontations with Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians had been deported from Kuwait, just because they were Palestinian. The truth is that your phoney concern for the welfare of the Palestinians is nothing but an excuse to attack Israel. You are part of the ignorant effort to confine all concern for the welfare of the Palestinians to attacking Israel. But the truth is there are greater reasons than Israel for the plight of the Palestinians. To disregard Jordan or Kuwait or Saudi Arabia or any of the other oil-rich nations who do nothing for these people, is to use the plight of these poor people as a vehicle for your hatred of Jews, or your hatred of Israel. Anti-semitism and anti-Zionism is NOT the same as pro-Palestinian and anyone who insists that it is the same really does not give two hoots for their welfare. >The Nazi regime accorded to the residents of the Warsaw ghetto the >right to self- administration. They selected Jews to pacify the >occupied population and preventing any form of resistance. Some >Jewish collaborators were killed. Israel also wishes to rule over >Gaza through Arab collaborators. Your pathetic analogy is so absent of relevant fact that your racism cannot be disguised. Jews had never declared war on a Polish people. Jews had never attacked Poles with knives, or had used the Ghetto as a staging ground for attacks. To take something like the Warsaw Ghetto(the creation of which you do not even bother to discuss!)and the uprising that followed is to degrade the dead, and to show that intelligent debate on a difficult situation is beyond your intellectual purview. You clearly have never even read a single word of the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Here is arguably the single most anti-semitic genocidal document since Mein Kampf, yet it is totally disregarded in your rantings. Your racism is most evident in your eagerness to avoid such documentation. If it were considered, you might actually have to deal with mideast problems in a balanced manner, rather than in an anti-semitic manner. >As Israel denies Gazans the only two options which are compatible >with basic human rights and international law, that of becoming >Israeli citizens with full rights or respecting their right for >self-determination, it must be concluded that the Israeli Jewish >society does not consider Gazans full human beings. And just how was Gaza obtained? Do you forget that Israel is not in the habit of grabbing land for the hell of it, but had taken Gaza in a war that it did not start? Did you know land Israel captures in wars, wars which other nations have ALWAYS started, aren't the same as Israel, and they are subject to a completely different set of international laws? Since you do continuously refer to international law, would you please say what specific international laws Israel is violating? This attitude >is consistent with the attitude of the Nazis towards Jews. I can cite 6,000,000 reasons why it is not. > The >current policies by the Israeli government of cutting off Gaza are >consistent with the wish publicly expressed by Prime Mininister >Yitzhak Rabin that 'Gaza sink into the sea'. Where is this quote? I have never heard Rabin assert that he wished such a thing. Since you are in general a liar, you'll have to provide the entire quote, with source, or this effort will be regarded as just another one of your fabrications. > One is led to ask >oneself whether Israeli leaders entertain still more sinister >goals towards the Gazans ? Whether they have some Final Solution >up their sleeve ? Only you are led to ask such a loaded, racist, intellectually dishonest question. You inability to come to terms with what you are has turned you into a racist of the highest order. >I urge all those who have slight human compassion to do whatever >they can to help the Gazans regain their full human, civil and >political rights, to which they are entitled as human beings. Why do you not feel the same compassion for the Jews of Iran, or Iraq, or Yemen, or Saudi Arabia, or Syria? Do you have an inkling of what they have endured over the past decades? Or, what about the plight of the Palestinians in Kuwait? Or what about the treatment of the Bosnian Muslims? Do you think the residents of Gaza are being subjected to what all the Muslims in Bosnia are enduring? Why are you indifferent to the death and suffering of people? Why do you not care that these folk are being exterminated? Why do you not care that only Israel has given any of these people safe haven? Could it be due to the fact that it is not Israel who is doing the killing? The people in Gaza are not being exterminated. They aren't being killed. They aren't being raped. They aren't being starved. They aren't being driven from their lands. They are not kept from receiving food or other supplies. But the Bosnians are. And the ONLY country which has provided some sanctuary to the Bosnian Muslims is the same nation that you have devoted your life to attacking, in the guise of compassion. Your rantings are so unfettered by the burden of intellectual honesty that you ought to take a deep breath and ask yourself what your real motives are. Do not flatter yourself into the belief that truth or compassion are what drives you. In your case, it is clear that hate beats out love every time. Maybe you are burdened with some kind of guilt for having been born a Jew. It is obvious that your hatred of your own Judaism is being dumped on all other Jews. Why else would you suggest a racist idea like breeding Jews out of existence? Maybe these fits of anti-semitism are a result of being cut off from your own people for an extended period. Whatever the case may be, it is clear that you are not what you have labored so hard to appear to be. When you realize that you can't care for other people while you hate yourself you might actually begin to do some good. But for now, you are a fruad. ",17 "WANTED: Video equipment (repost) I am looking for a working docking deck (deck that goes on back of camera) for an old JVC GX-S700 Tube video camera. Any format is acceptable. Please send me a message if you even know anything about decks for the GX-S700. Also interested in any video equipment for sale, professional or consumer. Thank you. ---- bbates@pro-freedom.van.wa.us -==- Pro-Freedom BBS - (206) 694-3276 ============================================================== ",6 "Re: [soc.motss, et al.] ""Princeton axes matching funds for Boy Scouts"" In article <1993Apr3.221101.25314@midway.uchicago.edu> shou@midway.uchicago.edu writes: >In article <1pi0dhINN8ub@dsi.dsinc.com> perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes: >>Bigots never concede that their bigotry is irrational; it >>is other people who determine that by examining their arguments. >[...] >No! I expected it! You've set yourself up a wonderful little >world where a bigot is whomever you say it is. This is very >comfortable for you--imagine, never having to entertain an >argument against your belief system. Simply accuse the person >making of being a bigot. Well, this particular thread of vituperation slopped its venom over into alt.atheism, where we spend most of our time entertaining arguments against our belief system, without resorting to accusing others of bigotry. It's somewhat ironic that our exposure to bigotry happens in this instance to have originated in rec.scouting, since I always understood scouting to teach tolerance and diversity. I understand bigotry to be irrational prejudice against other people who happen to be of a different race, religion, ethnic background, sex, or other inconsequential characteristics. All the evidence I've seen indicates that sexual orientation and lack of belief in gods are exactly such inconsequential characteristics. Thus, pending further evidence, I conclude that those who show prejudice against such people are bigots, and organizations that exclude such people are discriminatory. -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. ",0 "Re: Turkey-Cyprus-Bosnia-Serbia-Greece (Armenia-Azeris) In article <93106.082650FINAID5@auvm.american.edu> writes: >Message-ID: <1993Apr15.174657.6176@news.uiowa.edu> Mr.Napoleon responds: > >** There were a couple millions of Greeks living in Asia Minor >**until 1923 Someone had to protect them. If not us who?? > > >Is that so? or you were taking advantage of weakness of ottoman >empire to grab some land. As soon as you got green lights from >allied forces, you occupied Izmir and other cities in western >Turkey. You killed and raped millions people without any reason. >Of course, you paid the price. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk made >you swim in aegean sea but not far enough. Your aggressions thru >Turkey at anytime in the past did not get you any reward and shall >not get you anywhere. Don't swallow propaganda as truth Sir. British promised to Venizelos (greek PM) that mainly greek populated areas of the Ottomans will be given to Greece, _if_ he will agree to drag Greece in the side of the British during the WWI (because the greek King was proGerman). The British succeeded by bombarding Athens (1916), killing quite a few, forcing abdication of the King, division of Greece into two separate states (North-South), and finally laying the ground for the most disasterous division between greeks for our century.(So don't feel bitter that the ""Allies"" gave any green light because they liked us....) Anyway, the British succeed to establish Venizelos, war starts at a second front against the Germans in the south while they were fighting the war in the East against the Russians, and finally the WWII came in an end. After that the British (and French) forgot immediately their promises (as usually). Even though publicly they say that they support the Greek cause, practically they not only do nothing, but instead, using some usual ""reasoning"" and other crap rhetoric as a pretext, they gradually backup Kemal (who had given now to the British ""water and bread"" that he will dissolve the superethnic Ottoman and contract it into a small ethnic-state). The main drive behind this British switch was the plan to keep a Muslim state in the region as buffer against a Russian expansion into warm-water facilities. The ""greek empire"" being an Orthodox Christian state was too prone to become Russian client. Out of this intrigue, the current state of affairs was established on our lands. While Venizelos and Kemal were promoted as true ""Giants"" by the British, since they worked to realize their goals in the region. Under the same plan, currently Greece and Turkey are recipients of big military funds from the US; both they are functioning as anti-Russian buffers, while simultaneously both remain good clients of State Dept. because otherwise the use of terror of changing ""the balance of power in the Aegean"" will be used. Under the same exact rational you should see the Cyprus problem. Gr PS: I don't make any anti-...whatever rhetoric. This is the situation in our region and needs to be said. The previously mentioned powers are not anything special; they are fucntioning the same way which anyone else functions all throughout history. So I don't selectively single them out; just they are relevant to _our_ current afairs. ",17 "Window start up position for app, how? How do you set up an app to give its window a default start up position and size? -- Mike Hayes |""Knowledge is good."" - Faber College Motto WWW |""Knowledge and Thoroughness"" -Rensselear Poly Motto Unemployed Tech, |""No, thank YOU!"" -Groucho Marx, 'A Day at the Races' Driven to banging my head against engineering physics for 4 years. ",2 "Re: How can I use the mouse in NON-Windows applications under MS-WINDOWS ? In article 12328@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, gonzaled@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LGV/MC) writes: >kasajian@netcom.com (Kenneth Kasajian) writes: > >>wnkretz@ikesg1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de (Oliver Kretzschmar) writes: > > > >>> Hey, > >>> could somebody tell me, how it is possible to work with the mouse >>> in a NON-Windows application, which runs in an window. We use >>> MS-WINDOWS 3.1 and have CLIPPER applications. Exists there any >>> routines or something else ? Please mail me your informations. > >>> Thanks for your efforts, > >>> Oliver >>>-- >>> NAME : O.Kretzschmar Inst.IKE / University Stuttgart >>> PHONE: +49 711 685 2130 Pfaffenwaldring 31 >>> FAX : +49 711 685 2010 7000 Stuttgart 80 >>> EMAIL: wnkretz@ikesg1.energietechnik.uni-stuttgart.de > >>Very simple. You have to have the MOUSE.COM or MOUSE.SYS loaded in DOS >>before you run Windows. Note that you don't need to have these files loaded >>to use the mouse in Windows. > >One addition to this... I don't know if it applies to everybody. For my >(Microsoft 400dpi) mouse to work with windowed DOS apps, I had to use the >driver that came with Windows (Version 8.20). 8.1 didn't allow me to do >it for some reason. > I could never find the Microsoft mouse driver on my Windows 3.1 installation disks, but DOS 6.0 also has version 8.20 of MOUSE.COM. --- Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom (404-514-3522) email: sat@eng.tridom.com, attmail!tridom!sat ",2 "Re: Need info on Circumci TO: menon@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Ravi or Deantha Menon) RO> First off, use some decent terms if ya don't mind. This is sci.med, not RO> alt.sex. Would you like to rephrase that? --- . ATP/Unix1.40a . G'day mate, throw another cat on the barbie! ",13 "Re: Alaska Pipeline and Space Station! In <1pq7rj$q2u@access.digex.net> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: >In article <1993Apr5.160550.7592@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >| >|I think this would be a great way to build it, but unfortunately >|current spending rules don't permit it to be workable. For this to >|work it would be necessary for the government to guarantee a certain >|minimum amount of business in order to sufficiently reduce the risk >|enough to make this attractive to a private firm. Since they >|generally can't allocate money except one year at a time, the >|government can't provide such a tenant guarantee. >Fred. > Try reading a bit. THe government does lots of multi year >contracts with Penalty for cancellation clauses. They just like to be >damn sure they know what they are doing before they sign a multi year >contract. THe reason they aren't cutting defense spending as much >as they would like is the Reagan administration signed enough >Multi year contracts, that it's now cheaper to just finish them out. I don't have to ""try reading a bit"", Pat. I *work* as a government contractor and know what the rules are like. Yes, they sign some (damned few -- which is why everyone is always having to go to Washington to see about next week's funding) multi-year contracts; they also aren't willing to include sufficient cancellation penalties when they *do* decide to cut the multi-year contract and not pay on it (which can happen arbitrarily at any time, no matter what previous plans were) to make the risk acceptable of something like putting up a private space station with the government as the expected prime occupant. I'd like a source for that statement about ""the reason they aren't cutting defense spending as much as they would like""; I just don't buy it. The other thing I find a bit 'funny' about your posting, Pat, is that several other people answered the question pretty much the same way I did; mine is the one you comment (and incorrectly, I think) on. I think that says a lot. You and Tommy should move in together. -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",14 "Re: Jack Morris cmeyer@bloch.Stanford.EDU (Craig Meyer) writes: >Michael Chen (mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: >: In any case, I think Viola would have made a better signing. Why? >: Viola is younger, and is left handed (how many left handed starters does >: Toronto have? >Well, I agree that Viola is a better signing. However, why does >everyone say that you want lefthanded starters? I understand lefthanded >spot relievers, even though they usually face more righthanded batters >than lefthanded batters. I just don't understand why people insist >on lefthanded starters, unless there is a park effect (e.g., Yankee Stadium). The answer is - they're stupid. Seriously, I think you're right on the money; I've never understood the preoccupation with making sure a rotation has left-handed starters. The only time it makes sense to me is when you have an unbalanced schedule and your main rival(s) is loaded with lefthanded hitters. Other than that, I think you're completely right. Greg ",9 "irit to pov ? Has anybody made a converter from irit's .irt or .dat format to .pov format ? Thanks! -- Sebastian Schmidt TU Ilmenau Institut f. praktische Informatik ",1 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 ulrich@galki.toppoint.de wrote: > According to the TIFF 5.0 Specification, the TIFF ""version number"" > (bytes 2-3) 42 has been chosen for its ""deep philosophical > significance"". > When I first read this, I rotfl. Finally some philosphy in a technical > spec. But still I wondered what makes 42 so significant. > Last week, I read the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, and rotfl the > second time. (After millions of years of calculation, the second-best > computer of all time reveals that 42 is the answer to the question > about life, the universe and everything) > Is this actually how they picked the number 42? Yes. > Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from? I don't know where Douglas Adams took it from, but I'm pretty sure he's the one who launched it (in the Guide). Since then it's been showing up all over the place. _______________________________ / _ L* / _ / . / _ /_ ""One thing is for sure: The sheep / _) /()(/(/)//)) /_ ()(/_) / / Is NOT a creature of the earth."" / \_)~ (/ Joachim@kih.no / / /_______________________________/ / -The back-masking on 'Haaden II' /_______________________________/ from 'Exposure' by Robert Fripp. ",1 "Re: Speeding ticket from CHP In article dmatejka@netcom.com (Daniel Matejka) writes: >In article <1pq4t7$k5i@agate.berkeley.edu> downey@homer.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Allen B. Downey) writes: >> Fight your ticket : California edition by David Brown 1st ed. >> Berkeley, CA : Nolo Press, 1982 >> >>The second edition is out (but not in UCB's library). Good luck; let >>us know how it goes. >> > Daniel Matejka writes: > The fourth edition is out, too. But it's probably also not >very high on UCB's ""gotta have that"" list. > >In article <65930405053856/0005111312NA1EM@mcimail.com> 0005111312@mcimail.com (Peter Nesbitt) writes: >>Riding to work last week via Hwy 12 from Suisun, to I-80, I was pulled over by >>a CHP black and white by the 76 Gas station by Jameson Canyon Road. The >>officer stated ""...it like you were going kinda fast coming down >>highway 12. You been going at least 70 or 75."" I just said okay, >>and did not agree or disagree to anything he said. > > Can you beat this ticket? Personally, I think it's your Duty As a Citizen >to make it as much trouble as possible for them, so maybe they'll Give Up >and Leave Us Alone Someday Soon. Right on, it is every citizen's right and duty to FORCE government accountability. (anecdotes deleted) > I've never tried proving the cop was mistaken. I did get to see >some other poor biker try it. He was mixing up various facts like >the maximum acceleration of a (cop) car, and the distance at which >the cop had been pacing him, and end up demonstrating that he couldn't >possibly have been going as fast as the cop had suggested. He'd >brought diagrams and a calculator. He was Prepared. He lost. Keep >in mind cops do this all the time, and their word is better than yours. Also keep in mind that cops will LIE in court to get their way! (don't get me started by asking how I know ;) If you decide to fight you have to be ready for this as well as devise strategy to make the cop's story doubtful in the judge/jury's mind. >Maybe, though, they don't guess how fast bikes are going all the time. >Besides, this guy didn't speak English very well, and ended up absolutely >confounding the judge, the cop, and everyone else in the room who'd been >recently criminalized by some twit with a gun and a quota. > Ahem. OK, I'm better now. Maybe he'd have won had his presentation >been more polished. Maybe not. He did get applause. |~~~~~| |_____| Ed McFarland ewm@mvuzr.att.com (_) /| US Marshalls #9 (corner marshals) /| |/ The best seat in the house to watch |_| motorcycle roadracing! / \ NO Passing on Waving Yellow ",8 "DICTA-93 Australian Pattern Recognition Society 2nd CALL FOR PAPERS DICTA-93 2nd Conference on - DIGITAL IMAGING COMPUTING: TECHNIQUES AND APPLICATIONS Location: Macquarie Theatre Macquarie University Sydney Date: 8-10 December 1993. DICTA-93 is the second biennial national conference of the Australian Pattern Recognition Society. This event will provide an opportunity for any persons with an interest in computer vision, digital image processing/analysis and other aspects of pattern recognition to become informed about contemporary developments in the area, to exchange ideas, to establish contacts and to share details of their own work with others. The Following invited speakers will provide specialised presentations: Prof Gabor T. Herman, University of Pennsylvania on Medical Imaging. Prof. R.M. Hodgson, Massey University New Zealand on Computer Vision. Prof. Dominique Juelin, Centre de Morphologie Mathematique, Paris on Mathematical Morphology. Prof. John Richards, Aust. Defence Force Academy, Canberra on Remote Sensing. Dr. Phillip K. Robertson, CSIRO Division of Information Technology, Canberra on Interactive Visualisation. The conference will concentrate on (but is not limited to) the following areas of image processing:- * Computer Vision and Object Recognition * Motion Analysis * Morphology * Medical Imaging * Fuzzy logic and Neural Networks * Image Coding * Machine Vision and Robotics * Enhancement and Restoration * Enhancement and Restoration * Visualisation * Industrial Applications * Software and Hardware Tools Papers are sought for presentation at the conference and publication in the conference proceedings. Submission for peer review should consist of an extended abstract of 750-1000 words of doubled spaced text, summarizing the technical aspects of the paper and any results that will be quoted. Final papers should be limited to no more than 8 pages of text and illustrations in camera-ready form. Four (4) copies of the abstract should be sent to: DICTA-93 C/- Tony Adriaansen CSIRO - Division of Wool Technology PO Box 7 Ryde NSW 2112 Australia IMPORTANT DATES Abstract due - 25th June 1993 Acceptance notified - 27th August 1993 Final paper due - 15th October 1993 SOCIAL PROGRAM: The conference dinner will be held on the Thursday 9th of December 1993. Other social activities are being arranged. Situated on a beautiful harbour, Sydney has many and varied places of interest. The Opera House and Harbour Bridge are just two of the well known landmarks. Harbour cruises, city tours to the Blue Mountains run daily. We can provide further information on request. ACCOMMODATION: Accommodation within 15 min walking distance is available, ranging from college style to 5 star Hotel facilities. Information will be supplied upon request. CONFERENCE FEES: before 30th Sep. After 30th Sep. APRS Members A$220 A$250 APRS Student Members A$120 A$150 Others A$250 A$280 Conference Dinner A$35 on Dec 9th 1993 ------------------------------------------------------------- ADVANCED REGISTRATION Name: Organisation: Address Phone: Fax: email: - I am a current Member of APRS. - I am not a current member of APRS. - Please send me information on accommodation. I enclose a cheque for ------------------------------------------------------------- Please send the above form to DICTA-93 C/- Tony Adriaansen CSIRO - Division of Wool Technology PO Box 7 Ryde NSW 2112 Australia The cheques should be made payable to DICTA-93. For further information contact: * Tony Adriaansen (02) 809 9495 * Athula Ginigie (02) 330 2393 * email: dicta93@ee.uts.edu.au APRS is a member of IAPP the International Association for Pattern Recognition, Inc. An affiliated member of the International Federation for Information Processing. ",1 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <1qla0g$afp@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: >In article <115565@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: >|> >I hope an Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI, which >|> >ripped off so many small depositors among the Muslim >|> >community in the Uk and elsewhere. >|> Grow up, childish propagandist. >Gregg, I'm really sorry if having it pointed out that in practice >things aren't quite the wonderful utopia you folks seem to claim >them to be upsets you.. You have done no such thing. >BBCI was an example of an Islamically owned and operated bank - >what will someone bet me they weren't ""real"" Islamic owners and >operators? An Islamic bank is a bank which operates according to the rules of Islam in regard to banking. This is done explicitly by the bank. This was not the case with BCCI. >And why did these naive depositors put their life savings into >BCCI rather than the nasty interest-motivated western bank down >the street? This is crap. BCCI was motivated by the same motives as other international banks, with perhaps an emphasis on dealing with outlaws and the intelligence services of various governments. >So please don't try to con us into thinking that it will all >work out right next time. Back to childish propaganda again. You really ought to get a life rather than wasting bandwith on such empty typing. There are thousands of Islamic banks operating throughout the world which no-one ever hears about. If you want to talk about corrupted banks we can talk about all the people who've been robbed by American banks. Gregg ",0 "ORION test film Is the film from the ""putt-putt"" test vehicle which used conventional explosives as a proof-of-concept test, or another one? --- C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/ C/ Nathan F. Wallace C/C/ ""Reality Is"" C/ C/ e-mail: wallacen@cs.colostate.edu C/C/ ancient Alphaean proverb C/ C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/C/ ",14 "Re: Why not give $1 billion to first year-long moon residents? In article <6ZV82B2w165w@theporch.raider.net>, gene@theporch.raider.net (Gene Wright) writes: > With the continuin talk about the ""End of the Space Age"" and complaints > by government over the large cost, why not try something I read about > that might just work. > > Announce that a reward of $1 billion would go to the first corporation > who successfully keeps at least 1 person alive on the moon for a year. > Then you'd see some of the inexpensive but not popular technologies begin > to be developed. THere'd be a different kind of space race then! > > -- > gene@theporch.raider.net (Gene Wright) > theporch.raider.net 615/297-7951 The MacInteresteds of Nashville ==== If that were true, I'd go for it.. I have a few friends who we could pool our resources and do it.. Maybe make it a prize kind of liek the ""Solar Car Race"" in Australia.. Anybody game for a contest! == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ",14 "Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years..... salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) writes: > I wonder if the Universe would look like a Black Hole > from ""outside""? How could we posit an ""Outside"", whether called > DeSitter space, hyperspace, parallel universes, whatever? > > Suppose that such a space existed, and that our universe > looked like a Black Hole in it. Then our Universe could be open > to it through Hawking radiation, the same way Black Holes are > within our Universe. Note this is all the purist speculation > and noone knows what laws govern QM beyond the event horizon > of our universe. Can laws change at such boundaries of space-time? > > Bruce Salem Black holes are where god divided by zero. :-) Nanci ......................................................................... If you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me email (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu): Spring is nature's way of saying, 'Let's party!' ",19 "GCC and Building the HP Widget Set on Linux I am currently attempting to get a copy of the HP Widget set compiled under Linux (SLS Release with kernel 99.6) and am running into some problems. Actually, it seems that this is more of a GCC question, because I got it to compile without trouble using cc on an RS/6000. Basically, there are a number of functions with prototypes set up in, let's say, CompositeP.h, for instance, the composite widget's insert_child procedure is set up with the type : typedef void (*XtWidgetProc) (Widget) but in several places in the HP source code, they reference the insert_child procedure and pass it multiple arguments instead of just one, as the prototype suggests. For example: (*superclass->composite_class.insert_child)(w, args, p_num_args) Now, GCC chokes on this, giving an error message that too many arguments are passed to the function. So, does anyone have any suggestions as to how to turn off this checking in GCC, or how I can go about changing the code to accomodate this call without changing /usr/include/X11/CompositeP.h, or has anyone successfully built the HP widget set and have any suggestions. Many thanks in advance for any help. -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bill Woodward | wpwood@austin.ibm.com <-- Try this first AIX Software Support | billw@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com Graphics Group | 512-838-2834 I am the terror that flaps in the night. ",5 "Daily Verse But someone will say, ""You have faith; I have deeds."" Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. James 2:18 ",15 "QC/MSC code to view/save images Dear Binary Newsers, I am looking for Quick C or Microsoft C code for image decoding from file for VGA viewing and saving images from/to GIF, TIFF, PCX, or JPEG format. I have scoured the Internet, but its like trying to find a Dr. Seuss spell checker TSR. It must be out there, and there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Thanx in advance. ////////////// The Internet is like a Black Hole.... ",1 "SCSI/DOS/adding a 3rd drive..?!@#$ Does anyone know if there are any problems (or if it's possible) adding a third hard drive(scsi) to a dos pc. I currently have a 386 pc with Future Domain scsi board and 2 Maxtor scsi drives installed. They work great, I haven't had any problems! Well, now I want more disk space and went out and got another (larger) scsi hard disk thinking all I had to do was add it to the chain(50pin ribbon that has 3 connectors) and run the fdisk program to format/initialize the disk. That didn't happen. When the pc boots, the scsi prom shoots back the devices that are attached to the board[target 0/target1/target2]. All three disks are seen. When I run the dos fdisk program to format the disk, I choose to select another disk(option 5(dos6)) and voila, it's not there. The first two disks show up no problem, but the third disk is no-where to be found.... ARGH! Ideas anyone????? Thanks in advance! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mike ""Migkiller"" Figueroa | Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation | E-mail: maf@Corp.Sun.COM | Work: (415) 336-2798 (n) X-----====(...)====-----X X +++ X ~ Sierra Hotel, and check six F16-FALCON ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",3 "Re: Hell_2: Black Sabbath In article , salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits) wrote: > Jeff Fenholt claims to have once been a roadie for Black Sabbath. > He was never ever a musician in the band. He was in St. Louis several > months back. The poster I saw at the Christian bookstore I frequent > really turned me off. It was addressed to all ""Homosexuals, prostitutes, > drug addicts, alcoholics, and headbangers..."" or something like that. > > Well, if I showed up with my long hair and black leather jacket I > would have felt a little pre-judged. I have seen Jeff Fenholt speak and I didn't find him judgemental. I think that the wording for that add was certainly inappropriate, but I think they were trying to say that headbangers would like the program. But I would NOT put headbangers in the same class as alcholics, etc. it is condescending. And I believe that Jeff was wearing black when I saw him. By the way, Fenholt played Jesus in Jesus Christ Superstar. Personally, I'm a headbanger at times too, but I have a hard time with what most of the secular metal groups promote. Free sex and drugs (my opinion that many promote these) aren't my thing. I HAVE found several good Christian metal groups that I like. Jon ------------------------------------------------ Jon Ogden - jono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular - Advanced Products Division Voice: 708-632-2521 Data: 708-632-6086 ------------------------------------------------ They drew a circle and shut him out. Heretic, Rebel, a thing to flout. But Love and I had the wit to win; We drew a circle and took him in. ",15 "New DoD listing. Membership is at 1148 There is a new DoD listing. To get a copy use one of these commands: finger motohead@cs.colorado.edu OR mail motohead@cs.colorado.edu If you send mail make sure your ""From"" line is correct (ie ""man vacation""). I will not try at all to fix mail problems (unless they are mine ;-). And I may just publicly tell the world what a bad mailer you have. I do scan the mail to find bounces but I will not waste my time answering your questions or requests. For those of you that want to update your entry or get a # contact the KotL. Only the KotL can make changes. SO STOP BOTHERING ME WITH INANE MAIL I will not tell what ""DoD"" is! Ask rec.motorcycles. I do not give out the #'s. Laszlo Nemeth laszlo@cs.colorado.edu ""hey - my tool works (yeah, you can quote me on that)."" From elef@Sun.COM ""Flashbacks = free drugs."" DoD #0666 UID #1999 ",8 "Re: Portland earthquake Bill Rea (cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz) wrote: > His theology clashed with the theology of the > local prophets. It was out of a very deep understanding of the Mosaic > covenant and an actute awareness of international events that Jeremiah > spoke his prophesies. The ""judgement prophesies"" were deeply loaded with > theological meaning. > In my opinion, both the Portland earthquake prophesy and the David Wilkerson > ""New York will burn"" prophesy are froth and bubble compared to the majestic > theological depths of the Jeremiah prophesies. Perhaps one other thing I should have added is that Jeremiah's prophesies about the coming destruction of Jerusalem would have been understood by the people of that time to be a full frontal assault on their understanding of their relationship with the Lord. Today the if the general populace hears ""prophesies"" like the Portland earthquake or New York will burn ones, they are unlikely to see it in the context of their relationship (or lack of it) with the Lord. They are far more likely to think that they are just the result of the fevered imaginations of a religious nutter. That is one reason why I am always deep;y suspicious of bald judgement prophesies without any explanation of the reasons for the judgement. This doesn't have to be long winded. To see a relatively modern example look at Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural speech. The relevant section is below. It is this type of spiritual insight which was missing in both prophesies posted here. --- Excerpt from Abraham Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural speech---- Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not he answered that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. ''Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh"" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the provdence of God, must needs come but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein an departure from those divine attribute which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him ? Fondly do we hope - fervently do we pray - that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said ""the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"" With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations. -- ___ Bill Rea (o o) -------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w--- | Bill Rea, Computer Services Centre, | E-Mail b.rea@csc.canterbury.ac.nz | | University of Canterbury, | or cctr114@csc.canterbury.ac.nz | | Christchurch, New Zealand | Phone (03)-642-331 Fax (03)-642-999 | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",15 "Space Station radio commercial A brief political/cultural item. Radio station WGMS in Washington is a classical music station with a large audience among high officials (elected and otherwise). Imagine a radio station that advertises Mercedes Benzes, diamond jewelry, expensive resorts and (truthfully) Trident submarines. This morning I heard a commercial for the space station project. Didn't catch the advertiser. Guess they're pulling out all the stops. -- Chuck Divine ",14 "data pods (10248B) for HP logic analyzer (1615A)?!? Anyone out there in netland have a spare data pod or two from an old 1615A Hewlett Packard logic analyzer? If you do, I'd like to buy it off of you. The pod's part number is 10248B. As a side note, anyone know of any good surplus dealer or other organization that would carry wayward logic analzer pods? Thanks a byte, Tod tod@cco.caltech.edu ",12 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qkjvc$4jv@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article <1qk1md$6gs@kyle.eitech.com> ekr@kyle.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: >#In article <1qjbn0$na4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >#>Really? You don't know what objective value is? If I offered the people >#>of the U.S., collectively, $1 for all of the land in America, would that >#>sound like a good deal? >#Well, that would depend on how much we wanted the US and how much >#we wanted the $1, wouldn't it? >Yes it would. Luckily these parameters are fixed by reality. If I can >predict with almost 100% accuracy that Americans prefer to own their portions of >the US than an infinitesmal portion of $1, in what sense are these values >not objective? No, I don't see what the popularity of a value has to do with whether it is objective or not. Pls. explain. > I don't think I'm way off beam in saying that ""something is >better than nothing"" is a rational and objective valuation. Nope. No tetanus is better than tetanus. > Do you agree >with me then that the assertion ""no values are objective"" is false? No. -Ekr -- Eric Rescorla ekr@eitech.com Would you buy used code from this man? ",0 "Re: I have seen the lobby, and it is us In article <1993Apr22.194121.25386@nynexst.com>, rsilvers@nynexst.com (Robert Silvers) writes: ... > Send something to Rush Linbaugh about Clinton taking away our right > to privacy and how if the govt. standard takes off, only people with lots > of money (drug dealers) will be able to justify DES stuff. He will slam > Clinton for this on the air. Well, lets for a hypothetical put our selves in the place of the US end of the drug rings. What do we do about the Cripple chip? First off, we would express disaproval to our congress critters, and remind them of the large sums of money our legitimate co.s provide to their campain coffers. We would also let them know via the 'other' channels that a) their income is about to take a hit, and b) their health may not be too good either. But just in case, the next obvious step to take is to BUY Mycotoxic and VLSI! Yeah, free enterprise at work. :-) Now they have the Cripple in their pockets, literaly as well as figurativly. Tough about the masses though. ~Paul ",11 "Re: Adult Chicken Pox In article marcbg@feenix.metronet.com (Marc Grant) writes: >all over my bod. At what point am I no longer infectious? My physician's >office says when they are all scabbed over. Is this true? Yes. >Is there any medications which can promote healing of the pox? Speed up >healing? Acyclovir started in the first 1-2 days probably speeds recovery and decreases the formation of new pox. -- David Rind rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu ",13 "Re: 20"" or 21"" grayscale displays Below is the list of large (at least 18 inches diagonal) monochrome monitors which Computer Shopper lists as PC compatible. I've omitted Radius because Radius states that they no longer support the PC. You will notice that Nanao is the only one which supports a 31.5Khz horizontal frequency, which is the frequency normally used by VGA cards at boot up. My guess is that all the other monitors come with their own graphics cards. I've left voice mail with Nanao asking them to send me some literature, and will report back to the net after I've studied it. The prices given appear to be list prices and have little relationship to reality. Kenneth Almquist --------------------------------- cut here --------------------------------- Cornerstone Technology 1990 Concourse Dr. San Jose, CA 95131 408-435-8900 DualPage 120: Diagonal: 19 inches Max Resolution: 1600x1280 Frequencies: 105Khz horizontal, 76Hz vertical Dimensions: 19x18x17 inches Price: $1495 Compatible with: PC;PS/2 DualPage 150: Diagonal: 19 inches Max Resolution: 2048x1538 Frequencies: 105Khz horizontal, 67Hz vertical Dimensions: 19x18x17 inches Price: $1595 Compatible with: PC;PS/2 Ikegami Electronics (U.S.A.), Inc. 37 Brook Ave. Maywood, NJ 07670 201-368-9171 DM-2010AD: Diagonal: 20 inches Max Resolution: 1280x1024 Frequencies: 48-64Khz horizontal, 59-80Hz vertical Price: $995 Compatible with: PC Image Systems Corp. 11595 K-Tel Hopkins, NM 55343 800-462-4370 or 612-935-1171 M21LMAX: Diagonal: 21 inches Max Resolution: 2048x1536 Frequencies: 48-108Khz horizontal, 60-80Hz vertical Dimensions: 17x20x19 inches Price: $1995 Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac M21LV-65MAX: Diagonal: 21 inches Max Resolution: 1280x1024 Frequencies: 15-65Khz horizontal, 55-90Hz vertical Price: $4695 Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac M21PMAX : Diagonal: 21 inches Max Resolution: 1280x1664 Frequencies: 48-108Khz horizontal, 60-80Hz vertical Dimensions: 19x15x17 inches Price: $2500 Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac M24PMAX : Diagonal: 24 inches Max Resolution: 1280x1664 Frequencies: 48-108Khz horizontal, 60-80Hz vertical Dimensions: 22x18x18 inches Price: $2600 Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac Nanao USA Corp. 23535 Telo Ave. Torrence, CA 90505 310-325-5202 FlexScan 6500: Diagonal: 21 inches Max Resolution: 1664x1200 Frequencies: 31.5;56-80Khz horizontal, 55-90Hz vertical Dimensions: 18x20x17 inches Price: $1989 Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac Ran-Ger Technologies, Inc. [Address unknown] The Genuis Model 1920M: Diagonal: 19 inches Max Resolution: 1280x1024 Frequencies: 64Khz horizontal, 60Hz vertical Dimensions: 17x19x17 inches Price: $950 Compatible with: PC Sampo Corp. of America P. O. Box 105084 Atlanta, GA 30348 404-449-6220 ImagePRO 120: Diagonal: 20 inches Max Resolution: 1600x1280 Frequencies: 81Khz horizontal, 72Hz vertical Price: $1995 Compatible with: PC OfficePRO IIe: Diagonal: 20 inches Max Resolution: 1280x1024 Frequencies: 75Khz horizontal, 70Hz vertical Price: $1549 (Advertized $999 pg. 390 April Shopper) Compatible with: PC Samsung Electronics America, Inc. [Address unknown. You could try Samsung Information Systems, Inc. 3655 N. 1st. St. San Joes, CA 95134 408-434-5400] PageMaster 2 (MU9511A/AM): Diagonal: 20 inches Max Resolution: 1280x1024 Frequencies: 66Khz horizontal, 63Hz vertical Dimensions: 18x18x15 inches Price: $899 Compatible with: PC;Mac Sigma Designs, Inc. 47900 Bayside Pkwy. Freemont, CA 94583 510-770-0100 L-View: Diagonal: 19 inches Max Resolution: 1664x1200 Frequencies: 75Khz horizontal, 60-92Hz vertical Dimensions: 18x19x17 inches Price: $1099 Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac L-View Multimode: Diagonal: 19 inches Max Resolution: 1664x1200 Frequencies: 75Khz horizontal, 60-92Hz vertical Dimensions: 18x19x17 inches Price: $1299 Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac MultiMode 120: Diagonal: 19 inches Max Resolution: 1664x1200 Frequencies: 94.7Khz horizontal, 76-116Hz vertical Dimensions: 18x19x17 inches Price: $1299 (min) Compatible with: PC SilverView: Diagonal: 21 inches Max Resolution: 1152x870 Frequencies: 66.5Khz horizontal, 73Hz vertical Dimensions: 18x19x18 inches Price: $1395 (min) Compatible with: PC;PS/2;Mac ",3 "Need a 3 Button mouse. **Help**! Can anyone recommend a 3 button mouse that is compatible with MacX and Quadra? If so, can the buttons be programed to say, cut, paste etc? Can anyone suggest a supplier? The only 3 button mice I know exist are: 1. Logitek $106.00 Aust (Injan ). 2. Anorus $100.00 Aust (Mac direct). Are these ok for the above configuration? Please reply me directly. regards Christopher Welsh -- Deakin University Chris Welsh Department of Computing and Maths cris@aragorn.cm.deakin.oz.au ---------------------------------- Everybody has enormous potential........ if only you could see what I can see. ",4 "Re: Chromium for weight loss There is no data to show chromium is effective in promoting weight loss. The few studies that have been done using chromium have been very flawed and inher ently biased (the investigators were making money from marketing it). Theoretically it really doesnt make sense either. The claim is that chromium will increase muscle mass and decrease fat. Of course, chromium is also used t o cure diabetes, high blood pressure and increase muscle mass in athletes(just as well as anabolic steroids). Sounds like snake oil for the 1990's :-) On the other hand, it really cant hurt you anywhere but your wallet, and place bo effects of anything can be pretty dramatic... -Paul ---------------------------------------------------------- | Paul Sovcik, Pharm.D. U of Illinois College of Pharmacy | | | | Email- U18183@UICVM.UIC.EDU | | | ---------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "A WRENCH in the works? Hi all, I really thought that by now I would have seen something about this, but I haven't, so here goes: Last night on the evening news, the anchorperson said something to the effect that one of the SSRBs that was recovered after the recent space shuttle launch was found to have a wrench of some sort rattling around apparently inside the case. There was no elaboration as to where specfically the item was found, of what type of wrench it was, but the anchorperson did say something about a NASA official commenting that there would be an inquiry into how the thing got in the SSRB. Has anybody else on the net whose info sources may be better than mine heard anything about this? It seems rather weird. Mitch ---------------------------->jmcocker@eos.ncsu.edu ",14 "Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES In article , oyalcin@iastate.edu (Onur Yalcin) writes: |> In article <1993Apr19.155856.8260@kpc.com> henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes: |> >In article <1993Apr17.185118.10792@ee.rochester.edu>, terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes: |> >|> |> >|>..[cancellum]... |> >|> |> > |> > henrik] Let me clearify Mr. Turkish; henrik] ARMENIA is NOT getting ""itchy"". SHE is simply LETTING the WORLD KNOW henrik] that SHE WILL NO LONGER sit there QUIET and LET TURKS get away with henrik] their FAMOUS tricks. Armenians DO REMEMBER of the TURKISH invasion henrik] of the Greek island of CYPRESS WHILE the world simply WATCHED. Onur Yalcin] It is more appropriate to address netters with their names as Onur Yalcin] they appear in their signatures (I failed to do so since you did Onur Yalcin] not bother to sign your posting). Not only because it is the Onur Yalcin] polite thing to do, but also to avoid addressing ladies with Onur Yalcin] ""Mr."", as you have done. Fine. Please, accept my opology ! Onur Yalcin] Secondly, the island of which the name is more correctly spelled Onur Yalcin] as Cyprus has never been Greek, but rather, it has been home to Onur Yalcin] a bi-communal society formed of Greeks and Turks. It seems that ^^^^^^^^^^^ Onur Yalcin] you know as little about the history and the demography of the Onur Yalcin] island, as you know about the essence of Turkey's Onur Yalcin] military intervention to it under international agreements. bi-communal society ? Then why DID NOT Greece INVADE CYPRUS ? Onur Yalcin] Be that as it may, an analogy between an act of occupation in Onur Yalcin] history and what is going on today on Azerbaijani land, can only Onur Yalcin] be drawn with the expansionist policy that Armenia is now pursuing. Buch of CRAP and you know it. Nagarno-Karabagh has ALWAYS been PART of ARMENIA and it was STALIN who GAVE IT to the AZERIS. Go back and review the HISTORY. The Armenians in Nagarno-Karabagh are simply DEFENDING their RIGHTS to keep their homeland and it is the AZERIS that are INVADING their teritory. Onur Yalcin] But, I could agree that it is not for us to issue diagnoses to Onur Yalcin] the political conduct of countries, and promulgate them in such Onur Yalcin] terminology as ""itchy-bitchy""... I was not the one that STATED IT. However, I hope that the Armenians WILL force a TURKISH airplane to LAND for purposes of SEARCHING for ARMS similar to the one that happened last SUMMER. Turkey searched an AMERICAN plane (carrying humanitarian aid) bound to ARMENIA. ",17 "Re: solvent for duct-tape adhesive? In article <1993Apr26.210417.2984@socrates.umd.edu>, johng@socrates.umd.edu (John Gustafson) writes: > ruck@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John Ruckstuhl) writes: > >>I know this is a long shot, but does anyone know what solvent I should >>use to clean duct-tape adhesive from carpet? > > May I tease out a sub-thread from this discussion? > > Can you all please tell me how to remove the stickers from new houses' > appliances and outdoor lampposts? Especially the lamppost, right on > the glass. Isn't there something you can rub into stuck-on labels that > will release them from their death-grip on glass or other hard surfaces? > > Many thanks for any help. > > John > > John Gustafson johng@socrates.umd.edu > Try WD-40 ",12 "Re: Why not give $1 billion to first year-lo In article <1993Apr21.150545.24058@iti.org>, aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) wrote: > > In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > > >>This prize isn't big enough to warrent developing a SSTO, but it is > >>enough to do it if the vehicle exists. > > >Actually, there are people who will tell you that it *would* be enough > >to do SSTO development, if done privately as a cut-rate operation. Of > >course, they may be over-optimistic. > > In spite of my great respect for the people you speak of, I think their > cost estimates are a bit over-optimistic. If nothing else, a working SSTO > is at least as complex as a large airliner and has a smaller experience > base. It therefore seems that SSTO development should cost at least as > much as a typical airliner development. That puts it in the $3G to $5G > range. > For the purpose of a contest, I'd bet some things could be cut. Like fuel for re-entry, any kind of heat shielding, etc., etc. Even still, if the contest participants had to fund DC-1 development, it probably wouldn't be worth it to develop DC-1 (just for the contest). Just give me the cheapest heaviest lift man rated (or at least under 6 or so Gs) booster... If I don't have to pay for DC-1 development, great!, I'll use it. But back to the contest goals, there was a recent article in AW&ST about a low cost (it's all relative...) manned return to the moon. A General Dynamics scheme involving a Titan IV & Shuttle to lift a Centaur upper stage, LEV, and crew capsule. The mission consists of delivering two unmanned payloads to the lunar surface, followed by a manned mission. Total cost: US was $10-$13 billion. Joint ESA(?)/NASA project was $6-$9 billion for the US share. I didn't find a mention of how long the crew could stay, but I'd bet that its around 30 days. And the total payload delivered was about 30 metric tonnes. So if you ignore the scientific payload, hitch a ride in the crew habitation module (no return trip...), and toss in a few more tonnes for the additional consumables to last another 11 months, then you *might* be able to get a year visit out of 15 tonnes (and in case its not obvious, that's a wild ass guess). A pretty boring visit, since every trip outdoors eats up a bit of LOX. And I'm not certain if a home brewed (or college-brewed) life support system could last a year. But let's round this up to 19.4 tonnes (convient, since the GD plan talks about 9.7 ton payloads delivered to the lunar surface. This adds up to two Centaurs, two LEVs, two Shuttle flights... All to put a single man on the moon for a year. Hmmm. Not really practical. Anyone got a cheaper/better way of delivering 15-20 tonnes to the lunar surface within the decade? Anyone have a more precise guess about how much a year's supply of consumables and equipment would weigh? And I was wondering about the GD LEV. Is it reusable? Or is it discarded to burn up on return to LEO? If its not discarded, could it be refueled? Henry: Do you know anything about the GD LEV? I noted that it uses RL-10 engines. Aren't they reusable/restartable? Would a LEV fit in a DC-1? I've forgotten (if I ever knew) what the cargo bay dimensions are for the DC-1. All in all, I'm not certain that the single goal/prize of staying on the moon for a year is wise and/or useful. How about: A prize for the first non-government sponsered unmanned moon landing, then another for a manned moon landing, then yet another for a system to extract consumables from lunar soil, another for a reusable earth/moon shuttle, and so forth. Find some way to build civilian moonbase infrastructure... Having a single goal might result in a bunch of contestents giving up after one person appeared to win. And for those that didn't give up, I find something a little scary about a half dozen people huddling in rickety little moon shelters. I'd like to see as much a reward for co-operation as for competition. Lastly, about ten or fifteen years back I seem to recall that there was an English space magazine that had an on-going discussion about moonbases on the cheap. I recalled it discussed things like how much heat the human body produced, how much lunar material it'd need for protection from solar flares, etc. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of this magazine. Does this ring a bell to anyone? Craig Keithley |""I don't remember, I don't recall, Apple Computer, Inc. |I got no memory of anything at all"" keithley@apple.com |Peter Gabriel, Third Album (1980) ",14 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article pmy@vivaldi.acc.Virginia.EDU (Pete Yadlowsky) writes: :In article <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: : :>Now that Big Brother has rubbed out one minority religion in Waco, : :It seems they offed themselves, perhaps in the self-fulfillment of :prophecy. Wouldn't be the first time. No, it wouldn't be the first time a group has committed suicide to avoid the shame of capture and persecution. Ask the Jews. Go visit the ruins of Masada. : :>We used to live in a country where everyone enjoyed the free exercise of :>their rights to worship and bear arms. : :Arms? Automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers? The sorts of things :no family should be without, I guess. Anyway, I've often wondered what :business followers of Christ would have with weapons. It's hard to imagine a :pistol-packin' Jesus, though I suppose a pump-action shotgun would have :made clearing the temple a hell of a lot easier. Automatic weapons? Grenades? Rocket launchers? I didn't see any, other than the ones toted by the government. I have a feeling the BATF/FBI would have been much more cautious had the BD's had a case or two of LAWS... would have made a real hash of their cattle cars. : :>I'll bet all you cult haters are happy now, right? Just hope you're not next. : :Well, when the nice federal officers come to my house to check out my :extensive weapons cache, I'll just be sure not to shoot at them. :""Tea, ladies and gentlemen?"" That's nice... anybody attacks me, my home, or my loved ones with grenades or automatic weapons and they won't be the only ones dealing death and destruction. Uncle Sammie was kind enough to provide me with an education that included studying the Constitution, and even threw in a lot of time on the rifle range... My oath never said anything about bowing to tyranny, although it did include ""to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic"" : :It's very sad all those people died, especially the kids, but that's going :to happen in a free society whenever psychologically needy people hook up :with a charismatic nutcase. How free a society is it when a religous minority is attacked by an armed branch of government... especially when the most the BATF would have had jurisdiction for would have been essentially tax-evasion... Hope you got your 1040 in on time. From what you've said, shit happens and we should just sit back and accept it. Not on your life! My ancestors came to this country to escape religous intolerence, and earned their freedom with blood and cordite... I'll defend mine with the same, if need be... : :-- :Peter M. Yadlowsky | Wake! The sky is light! And Peter is from an academic institution... that used to mean something... but then again, so did the Bill of Rights... lemme see, where's that Brown Bess?? James former commander, Counter-Insurgency Club (a student government chartered student organization at Georgia Tech) -- ******************************************************************************** James S. Cochrane * When in danger, or in doubt, run in * This space gt6511a@prism.gatech.edu * circles, scream and shout. * for rent ******************************************************************************** ",19 "Re: Video Resolution Switching In article John Shepardson, John_Shepardson.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu writes: >As the author of ""DPI on the Fry"" I can tell you that there is no way for a >graphics card to know what resolution its connected monitor will actually >support. That's why we have these silly cables. The cable just identifies >that monitor as supporting a given resolution. > >Therefore the software will support any multisync monitor. I've heard that >radius has a similar program for the quadra. Is this software available either commercially or public domain? If so where? Cameron Lewis email: lewis@tanelorn.aod.dsto.gov.au Air Operations Division (Melb.) gbb: +61 3 647 7729 Aeronautical Research Laboratory - D.S.T.O fax: +61 3 646 3433 506 Lorimer St, Fishermens Bend, Vic., Australia, 3207 ",4 "Re: Davidians and compassion In article , sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: |> So we have this highly Christian religious order that put fire |> on their house, killing most of the people inside. |> I would hardly consider the BD's to be Christian. They were acting in direct contradiction to scripture. Jesus' Second Coming is something that everyone will know of. Jesus also predicted that there will be false Messiahs who will use His name. His prophecy has been fulfilled. |> I'm not that annoyed about the adults, they knew supposedly what |> they were doing, and it's their own actions. |> |> What I mostly are angry about is the fact that the people inside, |> including mothers, let the children suffer and die during awful |> conditions. |> I agree with you there. |> If this is considered religious following to the end, I'm proud |> that I don't follow such fanatical and non-compassionate religions. |> Me too. I have already given my life to God. If God tells me to lay down my life, it will be to save another life. |> You might want to die for whatever purpose, but please spare |> the innocent young ones that has nothing to do with this all. |> |> I have a hard time just now understanding that Christianity |> knows about the word compassion. Christians, do you think |> the actions today would produce a good picture of your |> religion? |> Do you judge all Christians by the acts of those who would call themselves Christian and yet are not? The BD's contradicted scripture in their actions. They were NOT Christian. Simple as that. Perhaps you have read too much into what the media has portrayed. Ask any true-believing Christian and you will find that they will deny any association with the BD's. Even the 7th Day Adventists have denied any further ties with this cult, which was what they were. Do you judge all Muslims by the acts committed by Saddam Hussein, a supposedly devout Muslim? I don't. Saddam is just a dictator using the religious beliefs of his people to further his own ends. God be with you, Malcolm Lee :) |> |> Kent |> |> --- |> sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",19 "DOCTRINE OF GOD This is being posted as a general outline for your personal study of this doctrine: THE DOCTRINE OF GOD I. THE PERSONS OF THE GODHEAD Of all of the doctrines of Scripture, this is the most important. The Bible is pre-eminently a revelation of God. Therefore, our first objective in studying the Bible should be to know God. I believe that the Bible teaches that there are Three Persons in the Godhead (Trinity): God, the Father; God the Son--the Lord Jesus Christ; and God, the Holy Spirit. I believe that they are individual Persons who are one in nature, meaning that They are identical in nature, each possessing the same divine attributes. They are also equally worthy of our worship, our trust, and our obedience. Cf. Matt.28:19, 2 Cor.13:14; John 14:8,9,16,17. II. THE ATTRIBUTES, or CHARACTERISTICS, OF THE GODHEAD. A. God's nature is revealed in the Name He has taken for Himself: Jehovah. He is the living God, eternal, and unchanging. He is without beginning, and without ending. Cf. Isa.42:8. B. God is a spirit. Cf. John 4:24. C. God is love. Cf. 1 John 4:8,16. As such, He is gracious, merciful, good, faithful, patient, and full of lovingkindness. Cf. Psa 89:1,2; Psa 103:8; Nahum 1:7. D. But God is also holy and righteous. He is absolutely without sin in His nature, and so is incapable of sinning in though, word, or action. Cf. Ex. 15:11; Isa. 6:3. E. God is omnipresent (everywhere present at the same time in the completeness of His Person), omniscient (all knowing, knowing all things--the end from the beginning, infinitely wise), omnipotent (almighty, sovereign, with unlimited power over all creation). God is infinite in His presence, wisdom, and power. It is my conviction that the work of the Lord in our day has become very man-centered, and that the people in our churches know very little about God. I believe that the Lord's work needs to be God-centered, and that the people of God need to understand that God is sovereign in all things: in the affairs of nations, in the lives of all people, and in the carrying out of His purposes regarding salvation. III. THE WORKS OF THE GODHEAD. A. In creation All Three Persons of the Godhead were active in creating, and all Three are active in sustaining creation, and in ordering the course of human affairs (for nations as well as individual people) to the end of time. Cf. Gen. 1:1,2; John 1:1-3; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:3. B. In salvation In order to understand salvation I believe that it is absolutely necessary to begin with God, not with man. All three Persons of the Godhead have been, and are, active in salvation. 1. God, the Father Salvation originated with God. The Members of the Godhead determined in eternity past that there would be salvation, the conditions under which people could and would be saved, and even who would be saved. Election to salvation is recognized in Scripture as the work of God, the Father. Cf. Eph 1:3-4; 2 Thess 2:13-14. 2. Christ, the Son of God The Lord Jesus Christ, through His birth by the virgin Mary, came to the earth to accomplish two important works: a. He came as the final and complete revelation of God, the Father. Cf. Col 1:15; heb 1:1-3. b. He came to provide salvation for all whom the Father had chosen. He did this by His death on the Cross, by His bodily resurrection, and by His present intercessory work in heaven. The work of salvation will be completed for us when the Lord returns. Cf. Rom 5:8-10; 1 Cor 15:3- 4; Heb 7:25, 1 John 3:2. 3. The Holy Spirit As the Author of Scripture, the theme of which is Christ and His redemptive work, the Holy Spirit is carrying out the redemptive plan of God in the following ways: a. He convicts of sin. Cf. John 16:7-11 b. He regenerates (known in the Bible as the new birth). Cf. John 3:5-8. c. He indwells each believer to fulfill the work of sanctification. Cf. John 14-16-17. d. He seals every believer in Christ, thus making salvation secure. Cf. Eph 1:13-14. e. He baptizes every believer into the body of Christ. Cf. Cor. 12:13 f. He teaches every believer the truth of Scripture. Cf. John 14:26. g. He bestows spiritual gifts on the people of God for ministry. (Cf. 1 Cor 12 h. He restrains sin. Cf Gal 5:16-26. i. He empowers for living and for service. Cf. Acts 1:8 ---------------------------------- Liane Brown (Internet) brownli@ohsu.edu Portland Oregon ",15 "___Fax Machine scanners to mono-computer scanners? I was wondering, since I've got a few fax machine scanners intact, if they could be integrated to the pc environment as a mono-scanner? If so, where to start?! Thanks. _________________________________________________ Inspiration | ___ | comes to | \ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca | those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca | seek the | /-\ =] Baden de Bari [= | unknown. | | ------------------------------------------------- ",12 "WANTED: Address SYMANTEC I am looking for the exact address of the Symantec Coporatoin, which distributes Norton Desktop and other Windows software. The information I am looking for is: Mail address Phone number Fax number E-mail address Thanks in advance. -- *** Nothing beats skiing, if you want to have real fun during holidays. *** *** Rob de Winter Philips Research, IST/IT, Building WL-1 *** *** P.O. Box 80000, 5600 JA Eindhoven. The Netherlands *** *** Tel: +31 40 743621 E-mail: dewinter@prl.philips.nl *** ",2 "PCX Hello HELP!!! please I am a student of turbo c++ and graphics programming and I am having some problems finding algorithms and code to teach me how to do some stuff.. 1) Where is there a book or code that will teach me how to read and write pcx,dbf,and gif files? 2) How do I access the extra ram on my paradise video board so I can do paging in the higher vga modes ie: 320x200x256 800x600x256 3) anybody got a line on a good book to help answer these question? Thanks very much ! send reply's to : Palm@snycanva.bitnet Peace be Blessed be Stephen Palm ",1 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <30192@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >>>> > There's no objective physics; Einstein and Bohr have told us that. >>>> Speaking as one who knows relativity and quantum mechanics, I say: >>>> Bullshit. >>>Speaking as someone who also knows relativity and quantum mechanics, I say: >>>Go ahead, punk, make my day. My degree can beat up your degree. >>Simple. Take out some physics books, and start looking for statements which >>say that there is no objective physics. I doubt you will find any. You might >>find statements that there is no objective length, or no objective location, >>but no objective _physics_? (Consider, for instance, that speed-of-light-in- >>vacuum is invariant. This sounds an awful lot like an objective >>speed-of-light-in-vacuum.) >Or, you can try not confuse a construct with the constructor. If you take >a look at Quantum Mechanics, many objective observations can be made >as well. However, Physics is not objective. Bohr said the randomness >of atomic motion is inherent in the motion itself. Einstein said that >nature is deterministic; it is our method of observation that inserts the >randomness. They were talking about the exact same results. That some results are not ""objective"" means neither that all results are non-objective, nor that ""physics"" is non-objective. -- ""On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey! On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole that she made from Leftover Turkey. [days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ... -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait) Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) ",19 "Re: Goalie masks In article hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl) writes: >>[...] and I'll give Fuhr's new one an honourable mention, although I haven't >>seen it closely yet (it looked good from a distance!). >This is the new Buffalo one, the second since he's been with the >Sabres? I recall a price tag of over $700 just for the paint job on >that mask, and a total price of almost $1500. Ouch. Yeah, it's the second one. And I believe that price too. I've been trying to get a good look at it on the Bruin-Sabre telecasts, and wow! does it ever look good. Whoever did that paint job knew what they were doing. And given Fuhr's play since he got it, I bet the Bruins are wishing he didn't have it:) -- ",10 "Re: Audio CDs? >>>>> On 30 Apr 1993 21:16:29 -0400, steve-b@access.digex.net (Steve Brinich) said: Steve> Hmmm... given the error corrections in modern audio CDs, is Steve> it sufficient to simply instruct your agent to decrypt using Steve> the bit stream from the second cut of the latest Garth Brooks Steve> CD, or are the usual number of bit errors found acceptable in Steve> commercial CDs because of that error correction enough to Steve> garble the message if such a method is used? One unreliable data point: while looking over the shoulder of a recording engineer, I decided that he was seeing a raw error rate of about 1 in 1e6 on a CD ``master.'' Both the extrapolation to mass-market CDs and my state of mind while doing the arithmetic (I was waiting for him to finish so we could go get something to eat) are questionable. -- Tony DeSimone Room 3m321 Performance Analysis Department 101 Crawfords Corner Road AT&T Bell Laboratories Holmdel, NJ 07733-3030 ",11 "stop all the cross-postings do not, and i repeat, do not, cross post the following subjects to soc.culture.iranian: Re: Jews Supports Serbs Re: Arab Leaders and Bosnia Re: HizbAllah in Bosnia Re: The Stage is Being Set that's all we need here; more bigotry and hate! believe me, we have already reached our quota for the year. try again next year. behzad ",17 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article <1993May13.150134.6506@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: >The problem is that the blue berets in Bosnia are dead meat if >Clinton starts bombing, but Clinton doesn't have the courage to >ask that the blue berets leave, because then he becomes primarily >responsible to the Bosnian policy of the UN and the allies. >Clinton wants to have his cake and eat it too...he wants to feel >free to use American military power for the sake of domestic >US politics and his domestic image, but he doesn't want to assume >the primary international leadership role in the UN and among >the allies, like Bush, for all his faults, did in the Gulf War... >because with leadership comes responsibility, and Clinton seems >to want to retain the Europeans as scapegoats. > This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have heard from the Europeans. ""Let's let the Serbs massacre, rape, and ethnically clean 100,000 Bosnians because we don't want our pretty blue berets there to get scratched"". Well, I say, get them the hell out of there if you're worried for them, but don't deny Bosnians their basic right to self defense! Lift the embargo against Bosnia, and let them defend themselves. What makes the UN troops more valuable than the Bosnian people? They are letting the civilians die so the soldiers could survive, when if anything, it should be the other way around. Idiots like Owen expect Bosnians to swallow a forced plan, and just hope this problem will go away. Well they're wrong. If they had got their butts in gear (that is, if Bosnia had oil) a year ago, much of this could be prevented. Now, however, the results of this tragedy will last for generations. That's like forcing the jews to make peace with Hitler. Yeah right. This, as senator Biden said, reeks of bigotry, and makes me and any decent human being for that matter, quite sick. It should be the Europeans, not the Americans, who take the inititiative and ask the other for support. This is their backyard, not the Americans. Today it's Bosnia, tomorrow it will be Kosovo and Macedonia, Greece, and then Turkey, and the damn thing will spread. Not to mention European muslims who weren't even practicing before will rally to fundamentalism. Good luck handling that, your majesty! Owen was upset at the question which compared him to Chamberlain, who hoped to appease Hitler. He said that Chamberlain had been in Munich 2 years before any war, I have been here during a blazing war for the last 18 months. Well, that makes him even worse, because Chamberlain could have at least argued I'm giving Germany the benefit of the doubt, whereas Owen can't even do that. What the west is doing is aiding the Serbs by tying the Bosnians' hands, and making the stupid excuse of their powerless troops on the ground, who can't even protect the Bosnian foreign minister in their own armored vehicle, and watch the killers just walk away! What kind of peace is this? What kind of civilization is this? >Clinton wants to leave the Europeans in charge and responsible, >but wants to freelance on the side...and if his freelancing gets >too hot, he wants to be able to cut and run...the American public may >be easily fooled...European leaders aren't. European leaders are PATHETIC, and are helping a genocide which even they will not be able to forget. Yeah, they'll go to Africa and fight for some damn dictator in their former colony, they'll go to Kuwait and fight for oil, but in Bosnia not only they won't fight aggression, they'll even tie the hands of the victim. Now you tell me who is fooling whom. > >Gerald Mash Javad ",17 "Re: Prodigal Son The parable of the Prodigal Son is not about who is and who isn't an immoral person. It is about grace and the love of God. Most people would agree with that concerning the younger son. The elder son is simply a negative example of the some thing. He thinks that he must earn his father's love, that he has earned it, that he is entitled to it. His father tells him that he is on the wrong track. He has always been loved--for the same reason his brother has always been: he is his father's son. We are too performance oriented to consistently get the point. We are willing to be saved by grace, but once we are Christians we want to go back to earning and deserving. ""Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?"" Gal 3:3 NIV -- Stan Armstrong. Religious Studies Dept, Saint Mary's University, Halifax, N.S. Armstrong@husky1.stmarys.ca | att!clyde!watmath!water!dalcs!armstrng ",15 "Now if ESPN wanted to show a good game... They could put on a Quebec-Montreal game. Talk a bout areivalry! opps rivalry.. roland -- Roland ",10 "Quadra 700 memory upgrade Hi folks, what exactly is the maximum memory I can put in a Quadra 700. My manual says 20MB (with 4 x 4MB SIMMs), but MacWarehouse and the like advertise 16MB SIMMs to give it a total of 68MB. Who's wrong? Has anybody got 68MB? Thanks, Chris __________________________________________________________________________ Chris Reid ",4 "Re: thoughts on christians bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes: >>Robert Beauchine wrote: >: RB> No, that's praying on the young. Preying on the young comes >: RB> later, when the bright eyed little altar boy finds out what the >: RB> priest really wears under that chasible. >Does this statement further the atheist cause in some way, surely it's >not intended as wit ... Surely it was intended as wit. By the way, which ""atheist cause"" were you referring to, Bill? -- --- __ _______ --- ||| Kevin Marshall \ \/ /_ _/ Computer Science Department ||| ||| Virginia Tech \ / / / marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu ||| --- Blacksburg, Virginia \/ /_/ (703) 232-6529 --- ",0 "Re: Ford and the auto > Hello, my name is Russell Wong and I am doing a research project on Henry > Ford and his automobile. I need information on whether Ford is > partially responsible for all of the car accidents and the depletion of > the ozone layer. Also, any other additional information will be greatly > appreciated. Thanks. >So would Mr. Benz.. -Eh? >And Mr. Chevy, Mr. Toyokogio, and Mr (Insert Car name here...) >--- >Dan Reed - blu@cellar.org - Eat Your Pets - Poke Out Your Eyes - Kill Your >Boss - Burn Down Your House - Move To Elmer NJ - Rip Out Your Nose Hairs With >A Lead Holder - Use X-Acto Knives For Dental Work - Hit Your Mother....... People get a life !!!!!!!!!! MD ",7 "Re: DC-X: Vehicle Nears Flight Test nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: [Excellent discussion of DC-X landing techniques by Henry deleted] >Since the DC-X is to take off horizontal, why not land that way?? The DC-X will not take of horizontally. It takes of vertically. >Why do the Martian Landing thing.. For several reasons. Vertical landings don't require miles of runway and limit noise pollution. They don't require wheels or wings. Just turn on the engines and touch down. Of course, as Henry pointed out, vetical landings aren't quite that simple. >Or am I missing something.. Don't know to >much about DC-X and such.. (overly obvious?). Well, to be blunt, yes. But at least you're learning. >Why not just fall to earth like the russian crafts?? Parachute in then... The Soyuz vehicles use parachutes for the descent and then fire small rockets just before they hit the ground. Parachutes are, however, not especially practical if you want to reuse something without much effort. The landings are also not very comfortable. However, in the words of Georgy Grechko, ""I prefer to have bruises, not to sink."" -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ""Tout ce qu'un homme est capable d'imaginer, d'autres hommes seront capable de la realiser"" -Jules Verne ",14 "Alt.Atheism FAQ: Constructing a Logical Argument Archive-name: atheism/logic Alt-atheism-archive-name: logic Last-modified: 5 April 1993 Version: 1.4 Constructing a Logical Argument Although there is much argument on Usenet, the general quality of argument found is poor. This article attempts to provide a gentle introduction to logic, in the hope of improving the general level of debate. Logic is the science of reasoning, proof, thinking, or inference [Concise OED]. Logic allows us to analyze a piece of reasoning and determine whether it is correct or not (valid or invalid). Of course, one does not need to study logic in order to reason correctly; nevertheless, a little basic knowledge of logic is often helpful when constructing or analyzing an argument. Note that no claim is being made here about whether logic is universally applicable. The matter is very much open for debate. This document merely explains how to use logic, given that you have already decided that logic is the right tool for the job. Propositions (or statements) are the building blocks of a logical argument. A proposition is a statement which is either true or false; for example, ""It is raining"" or ""Today is Tuesday"". Propositions may be either asserted (said to be true) or denied (said to be false). Note that this is a technical meaning of ""deny"", not the everyday meaning. The proposition is the meaning of the statement, not the particular arrangement of words used to express it. So ""God exists"" and ""There exists a God"" both express the same proposition. An argument is, to quote the Monty Python sketch, ""a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition"". An argument consists of three stages. First of all, the propositions which are necessary for the argument to continue are stated. These are called the premises of the argument. They are the evidence or reasons for accepting the argument and its conclusions. Premises (or assertions) are often indicated by phrases such as ""because"", ""since"", ""obviously"" and so on. (The phrase ""obviously"" is often viewed with suspicion, as it can be used to intimidate others into accepting suspicious premises. If something doesn't seem obvious to you, don't be afraid to question it. You can always say ""Oh, yes, you're right, it is obvious"" when you've heard the explanation.) Next, the premises are used to derive further propositions by a process known as inference. In inference, one proposition is arrived at on the basis of one or more other propositions already accepted. There are various forms of valid inference. The propositions arrived at by inference may then be used in further inference. Inference is often denoted by phrases such as ""implies that"" or ""therefore"". Finally, we arrive at the conclusion of the argument -- the proposition which is affirmed on the basis of the premises and inference. Conclusions are often indicated by phrases such as ""therefore"", ""it follows that"", ""we conclude"" and so on. The conclusion is often stated as the final stage of inference. For example: Every event has a cause (premise) The universe has a beginning (premise) All beginnings involve an event (premise) This implies that the beginning of the universe involved an event (inference) Therefore the universe has a cause (inference and conclusion) Note that the conclusion of one argument might be a premise in another argument. A proposition can only be called a premise or a conclusion with respect to a particular argument; the terms do not make sense in isolation. Sometimes an argument will not follow the order given above; for example, the conclusions might be stated first and the premises stated afterwards in support of the conclusion. This is perfectly valid, if sometimes a little confusing. Recognizing an argument is much harder than recognizing premises or conclusions. Many people shower their writing with assertions without ever producing anything which one might reasonably describe as an argument. Some statements look like arguments, but are not. For example: ""If the Bible is accurate, Jesus must either have been insane, an evil liar, or the Son of God."" This is not an argument, it is a conditional statement. It does not assert the premises which are necessary to support what appears to be its conclusion. (It also suffers from a number of other logical flaws, but we'll come to those later.) Another example: ""God created you; therefore do your duty to God."" The phrase ""do your duty to God"" is not a proposition, since it is neither true nor false. Therefore it is not a conclusion, and the sentence is not an argument. Finally, causality is important. Consider a statement of the form ""A because B"". If we're interested in establishing A and B is offered as evidence, the statement is an argument. If we're trying to establish the truth of B, then it is not an argument, it is an explanation. For example: ""There must be something wrong with the engine of my car, because it will not start."" -- This is an argument. ""My car will not start because there is something wrong with the engine."" -- This is an explanation. There are two traditional types of argument, deductive and inductive. A deductive argument is one which provides conclusive proof of its conclusions -- that is, an argument where if the premises are true, the conclusion must also be true. A deductive argument is either valid or invalid. A valid argument is defined as one where if the premises are true, then the conclusion is true. An inductive argument is one where the premises provide some evidence for the truth of the conclusion. Inductive arguments are not valid or invalid; however, we can talk about whether they are better or worse than other arguments, and about how probable their premises are. There are forms of argument in ordinary language which are neither deductive nor inductive. However, we will concentrate for the moment on deductive arguments, as they are often viewed as the most rigorous and convincing. It is important to note that the fact that a deductive argument is valid does not imply that its conclusion holds. This is because of the slightly counter-intuitive nature of implication, which we must now consider more carefully. Obviously a valid argument can consist of true propositions. However, an argument may be entirely valid even if it contains only false propositions. For example: All insects have wings (premise) Woodlice are insects (premise) Therefore woodlice have wings (conclusion) Here, the conclusion is not true because the argument's premises are false. If the argument's premises were true, however, the conclusion would be true. The argument is thus entirely valid. More subtly, we can reach a true conclusion from one or more false premises, as in: All fish live in the sea (premise) Dolphins are fish (premise) Therefore dolphins live in the sea (conclusion) However, the one thing we cannot do is reach a false conclusion through valid inference from true premises. We can therefore draw up a ""truth table"" for implication. The symbol ""=>"" denotes implication; ""A"" is the premise, ""B"" the conclusion. ""T"" and ""F"" represent true and false respectively. Premise Conclusion Inference A B A=>B ---------------------------- F F T If the premises are false and the inference F T T valid, the conclusion can be true or false. T F F If the premises are true and the conclusion false, the inference must be invalid. T T T If the premises are true and the inference valid, the conclusion must be true. A sound argument is a valid argument whose premises are true. A sound argument therefore arrives at a true conclusion. Be careful not to confuse valid arguments with sound arguments. To delve further into the structure of logical arguments would require lengthy discussion of linguistics and philosophy. It is simpler and probably more useful to summarize the major pitfalls to be avoided when constructing an argument. These pitfalls are known as fallacies. In everyday English the term ""fallacy"" is used to refer to mistaken beliefs as well as to the faulty reasoning that leads to those beliefs. This is fair enough, but in logic the term is generally used to refer to a form of technically incorrect argument, especially if the argument appears valid or convincing. So for the purposes of this discussion, we define a fallacy as a logical argument which appears to be correct, but which can be seen to be incorrect when examined more closely. By studying fallacies we aim to avoid being misled by them. The following list of fallacies is not intended to be exhaustive. ARGUMENTUM AD BACULUM (APPEAL TO FORCE) The Appeal to Force is committed when the arguer resorts to force or the threat of force in order to try and push the acceptance of a conclusion. It is often used by politicians, and can be summarized as ""might makes right"". The force threatened need not be a direct threat from the arguer. For example: ""... Thus there is ample proof of the truth of the Bible. All those who refuse to accept that truth will burn in Hell."" ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM Argumentum ad hominem is literally ""argument directed at the man"". The Abusive variety of Argumentum ad Hominem occurs when, instead of trying to disprove the truth of an assertion, the arguer attacks the person or people making the assertion. This is invalid because the truth of an assertion does not depend upon the goodness of those asserting it. For example: ""Atheism is an evil philosophy. It is practised by Communists and murderers."" Sometimes in a court of law doubt is cast upon the testimony of a witness by showing, for example, that he is a known perjurer. This is a valid way of reducing the credibility of the testimony given by the witness, and not argumentum ad hominem; however, it does not demonstrate that the witness's testimony is false. To conclude otherwise is to fall victim of the Argumentum ad Ignorantiam (see elsewhere in this list). The circumstantial form of Argumentum ad Hominem is committed when a person argues that his opponent ought to accept the truth of an assertion because of the opponent's particular circumstances. For example: ""It is perfectly acceptable to kill animals for food. How can you argue otherwise when you're quite happy to wear leather shoes?"" This is an abusive charge of inconsistency, used as an excuse for dismissing the opponent's argument. This fallacy can also be used as a means of rejecting a conclusion. For example: ""Of course you would argue that positive discrimination is a bad thing. You're white."" This particular form of Argumentum ad Hominem, when one alleges that one's adversary is rationalizing a conclusion formed from selfish interests, is also known as ""poisoning the well"". ARGUMENTUM AD IGNORANTIUM Argumentum ad ignorantium means ""argument from ignorance"". This fallacy occurs whenever it is argued that something must be true simply because it has not been proved false. Or, equivalently, when it is argued that something must be false because it has not been proved true. (Note that this is not the same as assuming that something is false until it has been proved true, a basic scientific principle.) Examples: ""Of course the Bible is true. Nobody can prove otherwise."" ""Of course telepathy and other psychic phenomena do not exist. Nobody has shown any proof that they are real."" Note that this fallacy does not apply in a court of law, where one is generally assumed innocent until proven guilty. Also, in scientific investigation if it is known that an event would produce certain evidence of its having occurred, the absence of such evidence can validly be used to infer that the event did not occur. For example: ""A flood as described in the Bible would require an enormous volume of water to be present on the earth. The earth does not have a tenth as much water, even if we count that which is frozen into ice at the poles. Therefore no such flood occurred."" In science, we can validly assume from lack of evidence that something has not occurred. We cannot conclude with certainty that it has not occurred, however. ARGUMENTUM AD MISERICORDIAM This is the Appeal to Pity, also known as Special Pleading. The fallacy is committed when the arguer appeals to pity for the sake of getting a conclusion accepted. For example: ""I did not murder my mother and father with an axe. Please don't find me guilty; I'm suffering enough through being an orphan."" ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM This is known as Appealing to the Gallery, or Appealing to the People. To commit this fallacy is to attempt to win acceptance of an assertion by appealing to a large group of people. This form of fallacy is often characterized by emotive language. For example: ""Pornography must be banned. It is violence against women."" ""The Bible must be true. Millions of people know that it is. Are you trying to tell them that they are all mistaken fools?"" ARGUMENTUM AD NUMERAM This fallacy is closely related to the argumentum ad populum. It consists of asserting that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the more likely it is that that proposition is correct. ARGUMENTUM AD VERECUNDIAM The Appeal to Authority uses the admiration of the famous to try and win support for an assertion. For example: ""Isaac Newton was a genius and he believed in God."" This line of argument is not always completely bogus; for example, reference to an admitted authority in a particular field may be relevant to a discussion of that subject. For example, we can distinguish quite clearly between: ""Stephen Hawking has concluded that black holes give off radiation"" and ""John Searle has concluded that it is impossible to build an intelligent computer"" Hawking is a physicist, and so we can reasonably expect his opinions on black hole radiation to be informed. Searle is a linguist, so it is questionable whether he is well-qualified to speak on the subject of machine intelligence. THE FALLACY OF ACCIDENT The Fallacy of Accident is committed when a general rule is applied to a particular case whose ""accidental"" circumstances mean that the rule is inapplicable. It is the error made when one goes from the general to the specific. For example: ""Christians generally dislike atheists. You are a Christian, so you must dislike atheists."" This fallacy is often committed by moralists and legalists who try to decide every moral and legal question by mechanically applying general rules. CONVERSE ACCIDENT / HASTY GENERALIZATION This fallacy is the reverse of the fallacy of accident. It occurs when one forms a general rule by examining only a few specific cases which are not representative of all possible cases. For example: ""Jim Bakker was an insincere Christian. Therefore all Christians are insincere."" SWEEPING GENERALIZATION / DICTO SIMPLICITER A sweeping generalization occurs when a general rule is applied to a particular situation in which the features of that particular situation render the rule inapplicable. A sweeping generalization is the opposite of a hasty generalization. NON CAUSA PRO CAUSA / POST HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC These are known as False Cause fallacies. The fallacy of Non Causa Pro Causa occurs when one identifies something as the cause of an event but it has not actually been shown to be the cause. For example: ""I took an aspirin and prayed to God, and my headache disappeared. So God cured me of the headache."" The fallacy of Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc occurs when something is assumed to be the cause of an event merely because it happened before the event. For example: ""The Soviet Union collapsed after taking up atheism. Therefore we must avoid atheism for the same reasons."" CUM HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC This fallacy is similar to post hoc ergo propter hoc. It asserts that because two events occur together, they must be causally related, and leaves no room for other factors that may be the cause(s) of the events. PETITIO PRINCIPII This fallacy occurs when the premises are at least as questionable as the conclusion reached. CIRCULUS IN DEMONSTRANDO This fallacy occurs when one assumes as a premise the conclusion which one wishes to reach. Often, the proposition will be rephrased so that the fallacy appears to be a valid argument. For example: ""Homosexuals must not be allowed to hold government office. Hence any government official who is revealed to be a homosexual will lose his job. Therefore homosexuals will do anything to hide their secret, and will be open to blackmail. Therefore homosexuals cannot be allowed to hold government office."" Note that the argument is entirely circular; the premise is the same as the conclusion. An argument like the above has actually been cited as the reason for the British Secret Services' official ban on homosexual employees. Another example is the classic: ""We know that God exists because the Bible tells us so. And we know that the Bible is true because it is the word of God."" COMPLEX QUESTION / FALLACY OF INTERROGATION This is the Fallacy of Presupposition. One example is the classic loaded question: ""Have you stopped beating your wife?"" The question presupposes a definite answer to another question which has not even been asked. This trick is often used by lawyers in cross-examination, when they ask questions like: ""Where did you hide the money you stole?"" Similarly, politicians often ask loaded questions such as: ""How long will this EC interference in our affairs be allowed to continue?"" or ""Does the Chancellor plan two more years of ruinous privatization?"" IGNORATIO ELENCHI The fallacy of Irrelevant Conclusion consists of claiming that an argument supports a particular conclusion when it is actually logically nothing to do with that conclusion. For example, a Christian may begin by saying that he will argue that the teachings of Christianity are undoubtably true. If he then argues at length that Christianity is of great help to many people, no matter how well he argues he will not have shown that Christian teachings are true. Sadly, such fallacious arguments are often successful because they arouse emotions which cause others to view the supposed conclusion in a more favourable light. EQUIVOCATION Equivocation occurs when a key word is used with two or more different meanings in the same argument. For example: ""What could be more affordable than free software? But to make sure that it remains free, that users can do what they like with it, we must place a license on it to make sure that will always be freely redistributable."" AMPHIBOLY Amphiboly occurs when the premises used in an argument are ambiguous because of careless or ungrammatical phrasing. ACCENT Accent is another form of fallacy through shifting meaning. In this case, the meaning is changed by altering which parts of a statement are emphasized. For example, consider: ""We should not speak ILL of our friends"" and ""We should not speak ill of our FRIENDS"" FALLACIES OF COMPOSITION One fallacy of composition is to conclude that a property shared by the parts of something must apply to the whole. For example: ""The bicycle is made entirely of low mass components, and is therefore very lightweight."" The other fallacy of composition is to conclude that a property of a number of individual items is shared by a collection of those items. For example: ""A car uses less petrol and causes less pollution than a bus. Therefore cars are less environmentally damaging than buses."" FALLACY OF DIVISION The fallacy of division is the opposite of the fallacy of composition. Like its opposite, it exists in two varieties. The first is to assume that a property of some thing must apply to its parts. For example: ""You are studying at a rich college. Therefore you must be rich."" The other is to assume that a property of a collection of items is shared by each item. For example: ""Ants can destroy a tree. Therefore this ant can destroy a tree."" THE SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT This argument states that should one event occur, so will other harmful events. There is no proof made that the harmful events are caused by the first event. For example: ""If we legalize marijuana, then we would have to legalize crack and heroin and we'll have a nation full of drug-addicts on welfare. Therefore we cannot legalize marijuana."" ""A IS BASED ON B"" FALLACIES / ""IS A TYPE OF"" FALLACIES These fallacies occur when one attempts to argue that things are in some way similar without actually specifying in what way they are similar. Examples: ""Isn't history based upon faith? If so, then isn't the Bible also a form of history?"" ""Islam is based on faith, Christianity is based on faith, so isn't Islam a form of Christianity?"" ""Cats are a form of animal based on carbon chemistry, dogs are a form of animal based on carbon chemistry, so aren't dogs a form of cat?"" AFFIRMATION OF THE CONSEQUENT This fallacy is an argument of the form ""A implies B, B is true, therefore A is true"". To understand why it is a fallacy, examine the truth table for implication given earlier. DENIAL OF THE ANTECEDENT This fallacy is an argument of the form ""A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false"". Again, the truth table for implication makes it clear why this is a fallacy. Note that this fallacy is different from Non Causa Pro Causa; the latter has the form ""A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false"", where A does NOT in fact imply B at all. Here, the problem is not that the implication is invalid; rather it is that the falseness of A does not allow us to deduce anything about B. CONVERTING A CONDITIONAL This fallacy is an argument of the form ""If A then B, therefore if B then A"". ARGUMENTUM AD ANTIQUITAM This is the fallacy of asserting that something is right or good simply because it is old, or because ""that's the way it's always been."" ARGUMENTUM AD NOVITAM This is the opposite of the argumentum ad antiquitam; it is the fallacy of asserting that something is more correct simply because it is new or newer than something else. ARGUMENTUM AD CRUMENAM The fallacy of believing that money is a criterion of correctness; that those with more money are more likely to be right. ARGUMENTUM AD LAZARUM The fallacy of assuming that because someone is poor he or she is sounder or more virtuous than one who is wealthier. This fallacy is the opposite of the argumentum ad crumenam. ARGUMENTUM AD NAUSEAM This is the incorrect belief that an assertion is more likely to be true the more often it is heard. An ""argumentum ad nauseum"" is one that employs constant repetition in asserting something. BIFURCATION Also referred to as the ""black and white"" fallacy, bifurcation occurs when one presents a situation as having only two alternatives, where in fact other alternatives exist or can exist. PLURIUM INTERROGATIONUM / MANY QUESTIONS This fallacy occurs when a questioner demands a simple answer to a complex question. NON SEQUITUR A non-sequitur is an argument where the conclusion is drawn from premises which are not logically connected with it. RED HERRING This fallacy is committed when irrelevant material is introduced to the issue being discussed, so that everyone's attention is diverted away from the points being made, towards a different conclusion. REIFICATION / HYPOSTATIZATION Reification occurs when an abstract concept is treated as a concrete thing. SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF PROOF The burden of proof is always on the person making an assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of argumentum ad ignorantium, is the fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise. STRAW MAN The straw man fallacy is to misrepresent someone else's position so that it can be attacked more easily, then to knock down that misrepresented position, then to conclude that the original position has been demolished. It is a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made. THE EXTENDED ANALOGY The fallacy of the Extended Analogy often occurs when some suggested general rule is being argued over. The fallacy is to assume that mentioning two different situations, in an argument about a general rule, constitutes a claim that those situations are analogous to each other. This fallacy is best explained using a real example from a debate about anti-cryptography legislation: ""I believe it is always wrong to oppose the law by breaking it."" ""Such a position is odious: it implies that you would not have supported Martin Luther King."" ""Are you saying that cryptography legislation is as important as the struggle for Black liberation? How dare you!"" TU QUOQUE This is the famous ""you too"" fallacy. It occurs when an action is argued to be acceptable because the other party has performed it. For instance: ""You're just being randomly abusive."" ""So? You've been abusive too."" ÿ ",0 "Re: Is ms-windows a ""mature"" OS? In article Jesse writes: >hi, > Have you used Mac system 6.x or 7.x? If the answer is positive, you would >know if ms-windows is a ""mature"" OS. This is silly. Is Unix a mature OS? Depends on who you ask, and how you define mature. System 7 is, if anything, less mature than Windows 3.1. > Days ago people doubted that ms-windows is not a real OS. I can see why >they have such question. Ms-windows confuses many people. Microsoft >simulated Mac, but it did a lousy job. For example: >(1) You can not create hierarchy groups. There is no way to create a group > in a group. (If you know how, please tell me.) So why do you need something like BeHierarchic to create groups under the Apple Menu? Everyone knows that Apple Menu Items are a ripoff of the Program Manager. If you want a hierarchic program launcher there are lots available. >(3) uncomplete documentation. It's not easy to find the reason why causes > an unpredictable error. And this is easy on a Mac? Give me a break. Having spent hours moving System Extensions around and restarting the Mac to see why a certain app crashes all the time, I find this laughable. >(4) Group deleting/file deleting > After deleting a group, users have to use file manager to delete files. > But if users forget to delete some related files, the disk will be full > of nonsense files. Oh great. Ever hear of aliases? Wonder why Apple implemented them. >(5) share problem > Once you create two windows doing compilation and editing in some > language (w/o good editor), there will be a sharing problem. You just > can not open or save the program if it is loaded. It makes sense to > prevent from saving, but not opening. Eh?? I don't follow. > It's by no means easy to satisfy everybody, but if Microsoft want to >keep their reputations, they should evaluate the user interface more >carefully before products distribute. Why is it that I find the Mac desktop incredibly annoying whenever I use it? > No flame, please. Yeah right. You post flame bait, yet ask for no flames. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS ! ",2 "Re: Manual Shift Bigots In article mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes: >W/r/t performance, converter lockup is purely irrelevant. The lockup only >occurs at light throttle settings and serves only to improve MPG. Mind you, >a converter clutch does a lovely job of improving MPG, but the additional >mechanical advantage of the converter gives you more acceleration (vs. locked >converter clutch) than its inherent losses take away. the transmission in my car contradicts both your assertions.. i get much stronger acceleration if i let the convertor lockup.. which i can induce by briefly lifting off, then quickly (but not too quickly to trigger a kickdown) applying throttle. above 3000 rpms, the convertor will never unlock; it would kickdown first. who says there's no skill involved in driving an automatic? i think of it as the throttle and shifter combined into a single pedal. with my car i can pretty much influence its shifting patterns with my right foot, while having both hands to steer. eliot ",7 "Seventh Century A.D. Armenian Math Problems From: _Quantum_ Magazine, March/April 1993 pages 42-46 The Problem Book of Anania of Shirak ------------------------------------ ""On the ancient peak of Ararat The centuries have come like seconds And passed on."" -Avetik Issahakian by Yuri Danilov Some years ago Journalists interviewing celebrities liked to ask them: ""What books would you take with you if you were to go off on a space flight?"" And though the number of books allowed on the trip varied from 10 to 30, depending on the type of spacecraft and the generosity of the interviewer, and celebrities are people of the most varied tastes, ages, and professions, not one of them dared to say that he or she would want to take with them at least one book of arithmetic problems. Some of these people certainly excluded this kind of literature because they were trained in the humanities and had nothing but scorn for ""numbers"" (though secretly afraid of them). Others steered clear of such puzzle books because they were masters of incomparably more difficult branches of modern mathematics and didn't mind saying for all the world to hear that they didn't know how to solve mere arithmetic problems. Professional mathematicians were no exception. Here's what the Russian mathematician Alexander Khinchin, a specialist in statistics, wrote about arithmetic: ""I willingly confess that any time a fifth-grader asked me to help solve an arithmetic problem, it was a hard work for me, and sometimes I failed completely. Of course, like most of my friends, I could easily solve the problem by the natural algebraic route --constructing equations or sets of equations. But we were supposed to avoid using algebraic analysis at all costs! . . . By the way, it's a fact that is well known and oft repeated that, as a rule, neither high school graduates, nor students at teaching colleges, nor teachers beginning their careers (nor, I must add, scientific researchers) can solve arithmetic problems. It seems the only people in the world who are able to solve them are fifth-grade teachers."" Now, I'm not insisting that a book of arithmetic problems be included in the bookbag of anyone flying into space. But a sense of justice induces me to recommend one particular problem book, one that will satisfy the most fastidious taste and supply food for thought sufficient not only for a relatively short flight to the Moon but for a extended space voyage--say, to Venus and back. One for the ""road"" They both took out the books they brought for the road. Kingsley glanced at the Royal Astronomer's book and saw a bright cover with a group of cutthroats shooting at each other with revolvers. ""God knows what this kind of stuff leads to,"" thought Kingsley. The Royal Astronomer looked at Kingsley's book and saw the History of Herodotus. ""Good Lord, next he'll be reading Thucydides,"" thought the Royal Astronomer. --Fred Hoyle, The Black Cloud The book I'm talking about isn't very big, but its 24 problems constitute 24 elegant miniatures from seventh-century Armenia. Naive and wise at the same time, rich in striking detail and the bright coloration of the period, these problems are reminiscent of the reliefs on the famous monument of Armenian architecture, the church on the island of Akhtamar in Lake Van (in what is now Turkey_. They are as inseparable from the image of Armenia as the elegant letters of the Armenian alphabet, invented by Mesrop Mashtots, or the songs of Komitas, or the paintings of Saryan. An edition of these incredibly beautiful problems has long been a bibliographic rarity. It was published under the title Problems and Solutions of Vardapet [1] Anania of Shirak, Armenian Mathematician of the Seventh Century (translated and published by I. A. Orbeli, Petrograd, 1918). The abundance of close observations and wide-ranging information about the way of life and customs of that remote epoch when Anania of Shirak lived and worked have actually rendered a disservice to his problem book. For many years the book was known only to researchers in the humanities--specialists in Armenian history who jealously guarded their treasure and wouldn't let just anyone see it. Even now, after research by K. P. Patkanov, the learned monk Father Kaloust, J.I. Orbeli, A. Abramyan, V. K. Chaloyan, and others has brought the works of Anania of Shirak to light in scholarly circles, the general reader remains ignorant of the very existence of this remarkable problem book. Vardapet Anania of Shirak Once fell in love with the art of calculation, I thought that no philosophical notion can be constructed without number, considering it the mother of all wisdom. --Anania of Shirak Among ancient Armenian thinkers, Vardapet Anania of Shirak stands out because of the breadth of his interests and the unique mathematical orientation of his work. Some of his works have been preserved. In addition to the Problems and Solutions, the following tracts have found a special place in the estimation of scholars: On Weights and Measures, Cosmography and Calendrical Theory, and Armenian Geography of the Seventh Century A.D. (the authorship of the last work was long attributed to another outstanding thinker of ancient Armenia, Movses of Khoren). In his autobiography, Anania of Shirak has this to say about himself: I, Anania of Shirak, having studied all the science of our Armenian land and having learned the Holy Scripture intimately, in the expression of the psalmist, ""every day I illuminated the eyes of my mind."" Feeling myself lacking in the art of calculation, I came to the conclusion that it is fruitless to study philosophy, the mother of all sciences, without number. I could find in Armenia neither a man versed in philosophy nor books that explained the sciences. I therefore went to Greece and met in Theodosiople a man named Iliazar who was well versed in ecclesiastical works. He told me that in Forth Armenia [2] there lived a famous mathematician, Christosatur. I went this person and spent six months with him. But soon I noticed that Christosatur was a master not of all science but only of certain fragmentary facts. I then went to Constantinople, where I met acquaintances who told me: ""Why did you go so far, when much closer to us, in Trebizon, on the coast of Pontus [3] lives the Byzantine vardapet Tyukhik. He is full of wisdom, is known to kings, and knows Armenian literature."" I asked them how they knew this. They answered: ""We saw ourselves that many people traveled long distances to become pupils of so learned a man. Indeed the archdeacon of the patriarchate of Constantinople, Philagrus, traveled with us, bringing many young persons to become pupils of Tyukhik."" When I heard this, I expressed my gratitude to God, who had quenched the thirst of His slave. I went to Tyukhik at the monastery of St. Eugene and explained why I had come. He received me graciously and said: ""I praise Our Lord that He sent you to learn and to transplant science in the domain of St. Gregory; I am glad that all your country will learn from me. I myself lived in Armenia for many years as a youth. Ignorance reigned there."" Vardapet Tyukhik loved me as a son and shared all his thoughts with me. The Lord bestowed upon me His blessing: I completely assimilated the science of number, and with such success that my fellow students at the king's court began to envy me. I spent eight years with Tyukhik and studied many books that had not been translated into our language. For the vardapet had an innumerable collection of books: secret and explicit, ecclesiastical and pagan, books on art, history, and medicine, books of chronologies. Why enumerate them by title? In a word, there is no book that Tyukhik did not have. And he had such a gift from the Holy Spirit for translating that when he sat down to translate something from the Greek into Armenian, he did not struggle as other translators did, and the translation read as if the work were written in that language originally. Tyukhik told me how he had achieved such vast erudition and how he had learned the Armenian language. ""When I was young,"" he said, ""I lived in Trebizon, at the court of the military chief Ioannus Patricus, and for a long time, up to the accession of Mauritius to the throne I served as a military man in Armenia and learned your language and literature. During one attack by Persian troops on the Greeks, I was wounded and escaped to Antioch. I lost all my possessions. Praying to the Lord to heal my wounds, I made a promise: ""If You prolong my life, I shall dedicate it not to accumulating perishable treasures but to collecting treasures of knowledge."" And the Lord heard my prayers. After I recovered I went to Jerusalem, and from there to Alexandria and Rome. Upon returning to Constantinople, I met a famous philosopher from Athens and studied with him for many years. After that I returned to my homeland and began to teach and instruct my people."" After some years that philosopher died. Not finding a replacement for him, the king and his courtiers sent for Tyukhik and invited him to assume the teacher's position. Tyukhik, citing the promise he made to God not to move far from the city, turned down the offer. But because of his wide leaning, people came streaming from all countries to study with him. And I, the most insignificant of all Armenians, having learned from him this powerful science, desired by kings, brought it to our country, supported by no one, obligated only to my own industry, God's help, and the prayers of the Blessed Educator. And no one thanked me for my efforts. Problems and Solutions A half and one sixth and one nine-ninth of all the books were printed on verge'; one fifth and one two-hundred-eighty-fifth--on rag paper; one forty-fifth and one eight-hundred-fifty-fifth--on vellum, and forty-five inscribed copies--on Dutch paper. And so, find how many copies were printed in all. --Imitation of Anania of Shirak A Latin proverb says habent sua fata libelli (""books have their own fate""). The fate of Problems and Solutions by Anania of Shirak is quite amazing. The manuscripts of Anania's book were preserved only because, according to Armenian historians, ""in ancient and medieval Armenia manuscripts were guarded from invaders, like weapons, and cherished, like one's own children."" Biding their time, the manuscripts lay in the Matenadaran, a renowned depository of ancient manuscripts (now the Mesrop Mashtots Institute of Ancient Manuscripts). And its hour finally arrived. In 1896 the learned monk Father Kaloust used two manuscripts to publish the problem book, supplementing it with an introduction and commentary. In 1918 the book was translated into Russian, edited, annotated, and typeset by Iosef Orbeli, a prominent scholar (and later a member of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR). In the translator's words, the problems of Anania are ""amusing, full of life, and simple."" Orbeli goes on to say: ""The subjects of the problems are generally taken from everyday life. The scene is predominantly his homeland Shirak and the surrounding countryside, and the dramatis personae, if they are named, are the local princes--the Kamsarakans, including Nersekh, who was a contemporary of Anania."" Like other ancient authors, Anania of Shirak used only ""aliquots"" -- that is, fractions with a numerator of 1. When it is necessary to write fractions with numerators other than 1, one has to represent it as a sum of aliquots (see the epigraph above). Like any true work of art, the problems of Anania suffer terribly in the retelling. You have to read the originals (albeit in translation) in their full glory. So let's open Anania's problem book--a gift from across the ages. Problems 1 and 8 relate to the Armenian uprising against the Persians in A.D. 572. Problem 1 My father told me the following story. During the famous wars between the Armenians and the Persians, prince Zaurak Kamsarakan performed extraordinary heroic deeds. Three times in a single month he attacked the Persian troops. The first time, he struck down half of the Persian army. The second time, pursuing the Persians, he slaughtered one fourth of the soldiers. The third time, he destroyed one eleventh of the Persian army. The Persians who were still alive, numbering two hundred eighty, fled to Nakhichevan. And so, from this remainder, find how many Persian soldiers there were before the massacre. Problem 8 During the famous Armenian uprising against the Persians, when Zaurak Kamsarakan killed Suren, one of the Armenian azats[4] sent an envoy to the Persian king to report the baleful news. The envoy covered fifty miles in a day. Fifteen days later, when he learned of this, Zaurak Kamsarakan sent riders in pursuit to bring the envoy back. The riders covered eighty miles in a day. And so, find how many days it took them to catch the envoy. Problem 18 mentions vessels made of varying amounts of metal. In the Russian translation, they are all called ""dishes."" But in the original Armenian, according to Orbeli's note, the dishes in the first and second instances are called mesur, and in the third instance scutel. Scutel is a common Armenian word, but mesur had not been encountered in Armenian literature before Anania's Problems and Solutions. Problem 18 There was a tray in my house. I melted it down and made other vessels from the metal. From one third I made a mesur; from one fourth, another mesur; from one fifth, two goblets; from one sixth, two scutels; and from two hundred ten drams, I made a bowl. And now, find the weight of the tray. Several of the problems reflect the richness of the Caucasian fauna in Anania's time -- for instance, problem 7. Problem 7 Once I was in Marmet, the capital of the Kamsarakans. Strolling along the bank of the river Akhuryan, I saw a school of fish and ordered that a net be cast. We caught a half and a quarter of the school, and all the fishes that slipped out of the net ended up in a creel. When I looked in the creel, I found forty-five fishes. And now, find how many fishes here were in all. The temptation is great to present all 24 problems. But I'll restrain myself and offer you just one more. Problem 20 provides some interesting information about the wild animals that inhabited Armenia at one time but now extinct for so long that there is no mention of them even in zoological reference books. The wild donkey, according to the generally accepted view, never roamed the Armenian lands. Yet Anania of Shirak offers evidence to the contrary . Problem 20 The hunting preserve of Nersekh Kamsarakan, ter[5] of Shirak and Asharunik, was at the base of the mountain called Artin. One night great herds of wild donkey entered the preserve. The hunters could not cope with the donkeys and, running to the village of Talin, told Nersekh about them. When he arrived with his brothers and azats and entered the preserve, they began killing the wild beasts. Half of the animals were caught in traps, one fourth were killed by arrows. The young, which constituted one twelfth of all the animals, were caught alive, and three hundred sixty wild donkeys were killed by spears. And so, find how many beasts there were at the start of this massacre. ""Set in type by me, Iosef Orbeli"" His biography could not be squeezed into the framework of a bibliography. -- K Uzbashyan, Academician Iosef Abgarovich Orbeli Anyone who is lucky enough to hold a copy (1/n of the small printing--n is the solution to the epigraph in the previous section) of the Russian translation of Anania of Shirak's Problems and Solutions, a thin book with yellowed pages, has probably noticed the variety of the fonts, the elegance of the borders, and the high quality of the design, printing, and binding. Such great attention to detail is characteristic of works that fulfill a requirement for a degree in bookmaking. And this problem book was indeed a kind of diploma attesting to the professional maturity of the man who created it. An advertisement at the end of the book reads: ""This book was typeset in December 1917 at the printing offices of the Russian Academy of Sciences by me, Iosef Orbeli; the text was also proofread, laid out, and decorated with borders by me. Various circumstances prevented me from carrying this project to the end; the final pages of the book were typeset by M. Strolman."" Typesetting was neither the first nor the only profession of the renowned orientalist Iosef Orbeli, who later became the director of the Hermitage Museum in Leningrad. He was also a cabinetmaker and a locksmith. Orbeli had already become acquainted with the famous academic printing house Typis Academiae, founded in 1728 and known all over the scientific world for its rich collection of fonts and its virtuoso typesetters. In preparing to publish the corpus of ancient inscriptions preserved on the walls of Armenian churches, Orbeli found it necessary to create a new font that would preserve the unique signs and ligatures. This complicated work was done by M. G. Strolman. (Unfortunately the entire set of letters was destroyed during the blockade of Leningrad in World War II.) When Orbeli came to the printing offices of the Academy of Sciences, times were hard. The only way to publish the newly translated Problems of Anania was for Orbeli to learn typesetting (he had always been attracted to the printer's craft). In 1922 Orbeli became the director of printing at the Academy of Sciences. Even after he retired, he remained a tireless champion of Russian academic typography. Back to Earth This book by definition does not exhaust all the most important works in this domain. The editor hopes that those who are guilty of this incompleteness will read these lines and, stung by shame, will work up, if not a collection like this, at least a monograph. --V. Bonch-Bruyevich introduction to the Russian translation of Solid-Body Symmetry by R. Knox and A. Gold Let's imagine a time when space flight is an everyday thing, and high schoolers will spend their breaks as astronauts-in training in the Perelman crater on the far side of the Moon. Maybe one of the space travelers will take this very copy of Quantum, and another, looking over her shoulder, will read this article and say to himself: ""This Anania from Shirak seems like a pretty interesting guy. When I get home I'll try to find his problems."" Good luck, my young friend! Anania is sure to entertain you. Perhaps by then there will be more than n copies of his timeless Problems and Solutions. And we can hope they will be as lovingly printed as the masterpieces created by Iosef Orbeli. [1] Vardapet (or vartabed) means teacher or learned man in Armenian. (The Armenian language suffers in English from a dual transliteration scheme. Thus, Mesrop is often rendered as ""Mesrob"", Komitas as ""Gomidas,"" and so on). [2] Fourth Armenia was one of fifteen provinces into which, according to Armenian Geography in the Seventh Century A.D., so-called Great Armenia was divided. [3] ""Pontus"" (or ""Pontus Euxinus"") was an old name for the Black Sea. [4] ""Azats"" were members one of several strata of freemen in ancient Armenia. [5] ""Ter"" was the title of the heads of sovereign royal families in ancient Armenia. -- David Davidian dbd@urartu.sdpa.org | ""How do we explain Turkish troops on S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | the Armenian border, when we can't P.O. Box 382761 | even explain 1915?"" Cambridge, MA 02238 | Turkish MP, March 1992 ",17 "Can't wear contacts after RK/PRK? I love the FAQ. The comment about contact lenses not being an option for any remaining correction after RK and possibly after PRK is interresting. Why is this? Does anyone know for sure whether this applies to PRK as well? Also, why is it possible to get a correction in PRK with involvement of only about 5% of the corneal depth, while RK is done to a depth of up to 95%? Why such a difference? I thought the proceedures were simmilar with the exception of a laser being the cutting tool in PRK. I must not be understanding all of the differences. In the FAQ, the vision was considered less clear after the surgery than with glasses alone. If this is completly attributable to the intentional slight undercorrection, then it can be compensated for when necessary with glasses (or contacts, if they CAN be worn afterall!). It is important to know if that is not the case, however, and some other consequence of the surgery would often interfere with clear vision. The first thing that came to my mind was a fogging of the lense, which glasses couldn't help. would not help. -- | Daniel R. Field, AKA InfoSpunj | I'm just a lowly phlebe. | | dfield@oboe.calpoly.edu | | | Biochemistry, Biotechnology | I'm at the phlebottom | | California Polytechnic State U | of the medical totem pole. | ",13 "AN12 AIRCRAFT FOR SALE OR LEASING Our firm is in a position to either sell or lease the serverses of one AN-12 air cargo transport aircraft (with the complete technical repair in 1993 ). Terms of Delivery: 1. The price of the aircraft is $840000. 2. The price of leasing is $42800 per month with the guarantee flight time more than 60 hours. This price includes : a) the price of the aircraft. b) the price of insurance of the aircraft and the pilots. The price of leasing does not include : a) the fuel price. b) the price of technical service. c) taxes , airport taxes, air navigations expenses, the payments of hangspace. d) loading, unloading and insurance cargo. e) days payments for pilot, food and accomodation expenses,transport expenses. Terms are negotiable. If you are interested, please contact at your earliest convenients. Respectedly Yours. Andrey Divaev. MOSCOW tel: (095) 305-71-30 fax: (095) 305-72-60 ""Rusian Tools"" Ltd. Co. ",6 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? > Yes, I know computers and harddisk drives should be ALWAYS on. But what about > monitors? They generate a lots of heat. Should I or shouldn't I keep them on > 24 hours a day? Any advice? Thanks. Take care...Paul There has been no empirical evidence to support the first statement. True, there is a power surge at startup that has the potential to do damage, but the internal power supply is well-protected. (I've turned my Mac on and off six or seven times a day for three years without problem). The monitor is the same. To leave it on is to waste a lot of electricity -- twice as much as a television, possibly more. Turn it off when you're not using it. It'll save you money and the world a few more resources. -Kelley- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Kelley Boylan, PowerPC, IBM Austin, kelleyb@austin.ibm.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- I buy and pay for my own opinions ",4 "FAQ - What is the DoD? This is a periodic posting intended to answer the Frequently Asked Question: What is the DoD? It is posted the first of each month, with an expiration time of over a month. Thus, unless your site's news software is ill-mannered, this posting should always be available. This WitDoDFAQ is crossposted to all four rec.motorcycles groups in an attempt to catch most new users, and followups are directed to rec.motorcycles. Last changed 9-Feb-93 to add a message from the KotL, and a bit of Halon. VERSION 1.1 This collection was originally assembled by Lissa Shoun, from the original postings. With Lissa's permission, I have usurped the title of KotWitDoDFAQ. Any corrections, additions, bribes, etc. should be aimed at blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Contents: How do I get a DoD number? by Blaine Gardner DoD #46 DoD ""Road Rider"" article by Bruce Tanner DoD #161 What is the DoD? by John Sloan DoD #11 The DoD Logo by Chuck Rogers DoD #3 The DoD (this started it all) by The Denizen of Doom DoD #1 The DoD Anthem by Jonathan Quist DoD #94 Why you have to be killed by Blaine Gardner DoD #46 The rec.moto.photo.archive courtesy of Bruce Tanner DoD #161 Patches? What patches? by Blaine Gardner DoD #46 Letter from the AMA museum by Jim Rogers, Director DoD #395 The DoD Rules by consensus Other rec.moto resources by various Keepers DoD #misc The rec.moto.reviews.archive courtesy of Loki Jorgenson DoD #1210 Updated stats & rides info by Ed Green (DoD #111) and others ------------------------------------------------------------------------ How do I get a DoD number? If the most Frequently Asked Question in rec.motorcycles is ""What is the DoD?"", then the second most Frequently Asked Question must be ""How do I get a DoD number?"" That is as simple as asking the Keeper of the List (KotL, accept no substitue Keepers) for a number. If you're feeling creative, and your favorite number hasn't been taken already, you can make a request, subject to KotL approval. (Warning, non-numeric, non- base-10 number requests are likely to earn a flame from the KotL. Not that you won't get it, but you _will_ pay for it.) Oh, and just one little, tiny suggestion. Ask the KotL in e-mail. You'll just be playing the lightning rod for flames if you post to the whole net, and you'll look like a clueless newbie too. By now you're probably asking ""So who's the KotL already?"". Well, as John Sloan notes below, that's about the only real ""secret"" left around here, but a few (un)subtle hints can be divulged. First, it is not myself, nor anyone mentioned by name in this posting (maybe :-), though John was the original KotL. Second, in keeping with the true spirit of Unix, the KotL's first name is only two letters long, and can be spelled entirely with hexadecimal characters. (2.5, the KotL shares his name with a line- oriented text utility.) Third, he has occasionally been seen posting messages bestowing new DoD numbers (mostly to boneheads with ""weenie mailers""). Fourth, there is reason to suspect the KotL of being a Dead-Head. ***************** Newsflash: A message from the KotL ****************** Once you have surmounted this intellectual pinnacle and electronically groveled to the KotL, please keep in mind that the KotL does indeed work for a living, and occasionally must pacify its boss by getting something done. Your request may languish in mailer queue for (gasp!) days, perhaps even (horrors!) a week or two. During such times of economic activity on the part of the KotL's employers, sending yet another copy of your request will not speed processing of the queue (it just makes it longer, verification of this phenominon is left as an excersize for the reader). If you suspect mailer problems, at least annotate subsequent requests with an indication that a former request was submitted, lest you be assigned multiple numbers (what, you think the KotL *memorizes* the list?!?). *********************************************************************** One more thing, the KotL says that its telepathic powers aren't what they used to be. So provide some information for the list, will ya? The typical DoD List entry contains number, name, state/country, & e-mail address. For example: 0111:Ed Green:CA:ed.green@East.Sun.COM (PS: While John mentions below that net access and a bike are the only requirements for DoD membership, that's not strictly true these days, as there are a number of Denizens who lack one or both.) Blaine (Dances With Bikers) Gardner blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""Denizens of Doom"", by Bruce Tanner (DoD 0161) [Road Rider, August 1991, reprinted with Bruce's permission] There is a group of motorcyclists that gets together and does all the normal things that a bunch of bikers do. They discuss motorcycles and motorcycling, beverages, cleaning fluids, baklavah, balaclava, caltrops, helmets, anti-fog shields, spine protectors, aerodynamics, three-angle valve seats, bird hits, deer whistles, good restaurants, racing philosophy, traffic laws, tickets, corrosion control, personalities, puns, double entendres, culture, absence of culture, first rides and friendship. They argue with each other and plan rides together. The difference between this group and your local motorcycle club is that, although they get together just about everyday, most have never seen each other face to face. The members of this group live all over the known world and communicate with each other electronically via computer. The computers range from laptops to multi-million dollar computer centers; the people range from college and university students to high-tech industry professionals to public-access electronic bulletin-board users. Currently, rec.motorcycles (pronounced ""wreck-dot-motorcycles,"" it's the file name for the group's primary on-line ""meeting place"") carries about 2250 articles per month; it is read by an estimated 29,000 people. Most of the frequent posters belong to a motorcycle club, the Denizens of Doom, usually referred to as the DoD. The DoD started when motorcyclist John R. Nickerson wrote a couple of parodies designed to poke fun at motorcycle stereotypes. Fellow computer enthusiast Bruce Robinson posted these articles under the pen name, ""Denizen of Doom."" A while later Chuck Rogers signed off as DoD nr. 0003 Keeper of the Flame. Bruce was then designated DoD nr. 0002, retroactively and, of course, Nickerson, the originator of the parodies, was given DoD nr. 0001. The idea of a motorcycle club with no organization, no meetings and no rules appealed to many, so John Sloan -- DoD nr. 0011 -- became Keeper of the List, issuing DoD numbers to anyone who wanted one. To date there have been almost 400 memberships issued to people all over the United States and Canada, as well as Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Norway and Finland. Keeper of the List Sloan eventually designed a club patch. The initial run of 300 patches sold out immediately. The profits from this went to the American Motorcycle Heritage Foundation. Another AMHF fund raiser -- selling Denizens of Doom pins to members -- was started by Arnie Skurow a few months later. Again, the project was successful and the profits were donated to the foundation. So far, the Denizens have contributed over $1500 to the AMA museum. A plaque in the name of the Denizens of Doom now hangs in the Motorcycle Heritage Museum. As often as possible, the DoD'ers crawl out from behind their CRTs and go riding together. It turns out that the two largest concentrations of DoD'ers are centered near Denver/Boulder, Colorado, and in California's ""Silicon Valley."" Consequently, two major events are the annual Assault on Rollins Pass in Colorado, and the Northern versus Southern California ""Joust."" The Ride-and-Feed is a bike trip over Rollins Pass, followed by a big barbecue dinner. The concept for the Joust is to have riders from Northern California ride south; riders from Southern California to ride north, meeting at a predesignated site somewhere in the middle. An additional plan for 1991 is to hold an official Denizens of Doom homecoming in conjunction with the AMA heritage homecoming in Columbus, Ohio, in July. Though it's a safe bet the the Denizens of Doom and their collective communications hub, rec.motorcycles, will not replace the more traditional motorcycle organizations, for those who prowl the electronic pathways in search of two-wheeled camaraderie, it's a great way for kindred spirits to get together. Long may they flame. ""Live to Flame -- Flame to Live"" [centerbar] This official motto of the Denizens of Doom refers to the ease with which you can gratuitously insult someone electronically, when you would not do anything like that face to face. These insults are known as ""flames""; issuing them is called ""flaming."" Flames often start when a member disagrees with something another member has posted over the network. A typical, sophisticated, intelligent form of calm, reasoned rebuttal would be something like: ""What an incredibly stupid statement, you Spandex-clad poseur!"" This will guarantee that five other people will reply in defense of the original poster, describing just what they think of you, your riding ability and your cat. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _The Denizens of Doom: The Saga Unfolds_ by John Sloan DoD #0011 Periodically the question ""What is DoD?"" is raised. This is one of those questions in the same class as ""Why is the sky blue?"", ""If there is a God, why is there so much suffering in the world?"" and ""Why do women inevitably tell you that you're such a nice guy just before they dump you?"", the kinds of questions steeped in mysticism, tradition, and philosophy, questions that have inspired research and discussion by philosophers in locker rooms, motorcycle service bays, and in the halls of academe for generations. A long, long time ago (in computer time, where anything over a few minutes is an eternity and the halting problem really is a problem) on a computer far, far away on the net (topologically speaking; two machines in the same room in Atlanta might route mail to one another via a system in Chicago), a chap who wished to remain anonymous (but who was eventually assigned the DoD membership #1) wrote a satire of the various personalities and flame wars of rec.motorcycles, and signed it ""The Denizen of Doom"". Not wishing to identify himself, he asked that stalwart individual who would in the fullness of time become DoD #2 to post it for him. DoD #2, not really giving a whit about what other people thought and generally being a right thinking individual, did so. Flaming and other amusements followed. He who would become the holder of DoD membership #3 thought this was the funniest thing he'd seen in a while (being the sort that is pretty easily amused), so he claimed membership in the Denizens of Doom Motorcycle Club, and started signing his postings with his membership number. Perhaps readers of rec.motorcycles were struck with the vision of a motorcycle club with no dues, no rules, no restrictions as to brand or make or model or national origin of motorcycle, a club organized electronically. It may well be that readers were yearning to become a part of something that would provide them with a greater identity, a gestalt personality, something in which the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. It could also be that we're all computer nerds who wear black socks and sneakers and pocket protectors, who just happen to also love taking risks on machines with awesome power to weight ratios, social outcasts who saw a clique that would finally be open minded enough to accept us as members. In a clear case of self fulfilling prophesy, The Denizens of Doom Motorcycle Club was born. A club in which the majority of members have never met one another face to face (and perhaps like it that way), yet feel that they know one another pretty well (or well enough given some of the electronic personalities in the newsgroup). A club organized and run (in the loosest sense of the word) by volunteers through the network via electronic news and mail, with a membership/mailing list (often used to organize group rides amongst members who live in the same region), a motto, a logo, a series of photo albums circulating around the country (organized by DoD #9), club patches (organized by #11), and even an MTV-style music video (produced by #47 and distributed on VHS by #18)! Where will it end? Who knows? Will the DoD start sanctioning races, placing limits on the memory and clock rate of the on-board engine management computers? Will the DoD organize poker runs where each participant collects a hand of hardware and software reference cards? Will the DoD have a rally in which the attendees demand a terminal room and at least a 386-sized UNIX system? Only time will tell. The DoD has no dues, no rules, and no requirements other than net access and a love for motorcycles. To become a member, one need only ask (although we will admit that who you must ask is one of the few really good club secrets). New members will receive via email a membership number and the latest copy of the membership list, which includes name, state, and email address. The Denizens of Doom Motorcycle Club will live forever (or at least until next year when we may decided to change the name). Live to Flame - Flame to Live ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The DoD daemon as seen on the patches, pins, etc. by Chuck Rogers, car377@druhi.att.com, DoD #0003 :-( DoD )-: :-( x __ __ x )-: :-( x / / \ \ x )-: :-( x / / -\-----/- \ \ x )-: :-( L | \/ \ / \/ | F )-: :-( I | / \ / \ | L )-: :-( V \/ __ / __ \/ A )-: :-( E / / \ / \ \ M )-: :-( | | \ / | | E )-: :-( T | | . | _ | . | | )-: :-( O | \___// \\___/ | T )-: :-( \ \_/ / O )-: :-( F \___ ___/ )-: :-( L \ \ / / L )-: :-( A \ vvvvv / I )-: :-( M | ( ) | V )-: :-( E | ^^^^^ | E )-: :-( x \_______/ x )-: :-( x x )-: :-( x rec.motorcycles x )-: :-( USENET )-: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The DoD by the Denizen of Doom DoD #1 Welcome one and all to the flamingest, most wonderfullest newsgroup of all time: wreck.mudder-disciples or is it reak.mudder-disciples? The Names have been changes to protect the Guilty (riders) and Innocent (the bikes) alike. If you think you recognize a contorted version of your name, you don't. It's just your guilt complex working against you. Read 'em and weep. We tune in on a conversation between some of our heros. Terrible Barbarian is extolling the virtues of his Hopalonga Puff-a-cane to Reverend Muck Mudgers and Stompin Fueling-Injection: Terrible: This Hopalonga is the greatest... Beats BMWs dead!! Muck: I don't mean to preach, Terrible, but lighten up on the BMW crowd eh? I mean like I like riding my Yuka-yuka Fudgeo-Jammer 11 but what the heck. Stompin: No way, the BMW is it, complete, that's all man. Terrible: Nahhhh, you're sounding like Heritick Ratatnack! Hey, at least he is selling his BMW and uses a Hopalonga Intercorruptor! Not as good as a Puff-a-cane, should have been called a Woosh-a-stream. Stompin: You mean Wee-Stream. Terrible: Waddya going to do? Call in reinforcements??? Stompin: Yehh man. Here comes Arlow Scarecrow and High Tech. Let's see what they say, eh? Muck: Now men, let's try to be civil about this. High Tech: Hi, I'm a 9 and the BMW is the greatest. Arlow: Other than my B.T. I love my BMW! Terrible: B.T.??? Arlow: Burley Thumpison, the greatest all American ride you can own. Muck: Ahhh, look, you're making Terrible gag. Terrible: What does BMW stand for anyway??? Muck, Arlow, High: Beats Me, Wilhelm. Terrible: Actually, my name is Terrible. Hmmm, I don't know either. Muck: Say, here comes Chunky Bear. Chunky: Hey, Hey, Hey! Smarter than your average bear! Terrible: Hey, didn't you drop your BMW??? Chunky: All right eh, a little BooBoo, but I left him behind. I mean even Villy Ogle flamed me for that! Muck: It's okay, we all makes mistakes. Out of the blue the West coasters arrive, led by Tread Orange with Dill Snorkssy, Heritick Ratatnack, Buck Garnish, Snob Rasseller and the perenial favorite: Hooter Boobin Brush! Heritick: Heya Terrible, how's yer front to back bias? Terrible: Not bad, sold yer BMW? Heritick: Nahhh. Hooter: Hoot, Hoot. Buck: Nice tree Hooter, how'd ya get up there? Hooter: Carbujectors from Hell!!! Muck: What's a carbujector? Hooter: Well, it ain't made of alumican!!! Made by Tilloslert!! Muck: Ahh, come on down, we aren't going to flame ya, honest!! Dill: Well, where do we race? Snob: You know, Chunky, we know about about your drop and well, don't ride! Muck: No! No! Quiet! Tread: BMW's are the greatest in my supreme level headed opinion. They even have luggage made by Sourkraut! High: My 9 too! Terrible, Heritick, Dill, Buck: Nahhhhh!!! Stompin, Tread, High, Chunky, Snob: Yesss Yessssss!!! Before this issue could be resolved the Hopalonga crew called up more cohorts from the local area including Polyanna Stirrup and the infamous Booster Robiksen on his Cavortin! Polyanna: Well, men, the real bikers use stirrups on their bikes like I use on my Hopalonga Evening-Bird Special. Helpful for getting it up on the ole ventral stand! Terrible: Hopalonga's are great like Polyanna says and Yuka-Yuka's and Sumarikis and Kersnapis are good too! Booster: I hate Cavortin. All: WE KNOW, WE KNOW. Booster: I love Cavortin. All: WE KNOW WE KNOW. Muck: Well, what about Mucho Guzlers and Lepurras? Snob, Tread: Nawwwwww. Muck: What about a Tridump? Terrible: Isn't that a chewing gum? Muck: Auggggg, Waddda about a Pluck-a-kity? Heritick: Heyya Muck, you tryin' to call up the demon rider himself? Muck: No, no. There is more to Mudder-Disciples than arguing about make. Two more riders zoom in, in the form of Pill Turret and Phalanx Lifter. Pill: Out with dorsal stands and ventral stands forever. Phalanx: Hey, I don't know about that. And Now even more west coasters pour in. Road O'Noblin: Hopalonga's are the greatest! Maulled Beerstein: May you sit on a bikejector! Suddenly more people arrived from the great dark nurth: Kite Lanolin: Hey, BMW's are great, men. Robo-Nickie: I prefer motorcycle to robot transformers, personally. More riders from the west coast come into the discussion: Aviator Sourgas: Get a Burley-Thumpison with a belted-rigged frame. Guess Gasket: Go with a BMW or Burley-Thumpison. With a roar and a screech the latest mudder-disciple thundered in. It was none other that Clean Bikata on her Hopalonga CaBammerXorn. Clean: Like look, Hopalonga are it but only CaBammerXorns. Muck: Why?? Clean: Well, like it's gotta be a 6-banger or nothin. Muck: But I only have a 4-banger. Clean: No GOOD! Chunky: Sob, some of us only have 2-bangers! Clean: Inferior! Stompin: Hey, look, here's proof BMW's are better. The Bimmer-Boys burst into song: (singing) Beemer Babe, Beemer Babe give me a thrill... Road, Terrible, Polyanna, Maulled, Dill etc.: Wadddoes BMW stand for? Heritick, Stompin, Snob, Chunky, Tread, Kite, High, Arlow: BEAT'S ME, WILHEM! Road, Terrible, Polyanna, Maulled, Dill etc.: Oh, don't you mean BMW? And so the ensuing argument goes until the skies clouded over and the thunder roared and the Greatest Mudder-Disciple (G.M.D.) of them all boomed out. G.M.D.: Enough of your bickering! You are doomed to riding Bigot & Suction powered mini-trikes for your childish actions. All: no, No, NO!!! Puhlease. Does this mean that all of the wreck.mudder-disciples will be riding mini-trikes? Are our arguing heros doomed? Tune in next week for the next gut wretching episode of ""The Yearning and Riderless"" with its ever increasing cast of characters. Where all technical problems will be flamed over until well done. Next week's episode will answer the question of: ""To Helmet or Not to Helmet"" will be aired, this is heady material and viewer discretion is advised. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Script for the Denizens of Doom Anthem Video by Jonathan E. Quist DoD #94 [Scene: A sterile engineering office. A lone figure, whom we'll call Chuck, stands by a printer output bin, wearing a white CDC lab coat, with 5 mechanical pencils in a pocket protector.] (editor's note: For some reason a great deal of amusement was had at the First Annual DoD Uni-Coastal Ironhorse Ride & Joust by denizens referring to each other as ""Chuck"". I guess you had to be there. I wasn't.) Chuck: I didn't want to be a Software Systems Analyst, cow-towing to the whims of a machine, and saying yessir, nosir, may-I-have-another-sir. My mother made me do it. I wanted to live a man's life, [Music slowly builds in background] riding Nortons and Triumphs through the highest mountain passes and the deepest valleys, living the life of a Motorcyclist; doing donuts and evading the police; terrorizing old ladies and raping small children; eating small dogs for tea (and large dogs for dinner). In short, I Want to be A Denizen! [Chuck rips off his lab coat, revealing black leather jacket (with fringe), boots, and cap. Scene simultaneously changes to the top of an obviously assaulted Rollins Pass. A small throng of Hell's Angels sit on their Harleys in the near background, gunning their engines, showering lookers-on with nails as they turn donuts, and leaking oil on the tarmac. Chuck is standing in front of a heavily chromed Fat Boy.] Chuck [Sings to the tune of ""The Lumberjack Song""]: I'm a Denizen and I'm okay, I flame all night and I ride all day. [Hell's Angels Echo Chorus, surprisingly heavy on tenors]: He's a Denizen and he's okay, He flames all night and he rides all day. I ride my bike; I eat my lunch; I go to the lavat'ry. On Wednesdays I ride Skyline, Running children down with glee. [Chorus]: He rides his bike; He eats his lunch; He goes to the lavat'ry. On Wednesdays he rides Skyline, Running children down with glee. [Chorus refrain]: 'Cause He's a Denizen... I ride real fast, My name is Chuck, It somehow seems to fit. I over-rate the worst bad f*ck, But like a real good sh*t. Oh, I'm a Denizen and I'm okay! I flame all night and I ride all day. [Chorus refrain]: Oh, He's a Denizen... I wear high heels And bright pink shorts, full leathers and a bra. I wish I rode a Harley, just like my dear mama. [Chorus refrain] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why you have to be killed. Well, the first thing you have to understand (just in case you managed to read this far, and still not figure it out) is that the DoD started as a joke. And in the words of one Denizen, it intends to remain one. Sometime in the far distant past, a hapless newbie asked: ""What does DoD stand for? It's not the Department of Defense is it?"" Naturally, a Denizen who had watched the movie ""Top Gun"" a few times too many rose to the occasion and replied: ""That's classified, we could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you."" And the rest is history. A variation on the ""security"" theme is to supply disinformation about what DoD stands for. Notable contributions (and contributers, where known) include: Daughters of Democracy (DoD 23) Doers of Donuts Dancers of Despair (DoD 9) Debasers of Daughters Dickweeds of Denver Driveway of Death Debauchers of Donuts Dumpers of Dirtbikes Note that this is not a comprehensive list, as variations appear to be limited only by the contents of one's imagination or dictionary file. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The rec.moto.photo archive First a bit of history, this all started with Ilana Stern and Chuck Rogers organizing a rec.motorcycles photo album. Many copies were made, and several sets were sent on tours around the world, only to vanish in unknown locations. Then Bruce Tanner decided that it would be appropriate for an electronic medium to have an electronic photo album. Bruce has not only provided the disk space and ftp & e-mail access, but he has taken the time to scan most of the photos that are available from the archive. Not only can you see what all these folks look like, you can also gawk at their motorcycles. A few non-photo files are available from the server too, they include the DoD membership list, the DoD Yellow Pages, the general rec.motorcycles FAQ, and this FAQ posting. Here are a couple of excerpts from from messages Bruce posted about how to use the archive. ********************************************************** Via ftp: cerritos.edu [130.150.200.21] Via e-mail: The address is server@cerritos.edu. The commands are given in the body of the message. The current commands are DIR and SEND, given one per line. The arguments to the commands are VMS style file specifications. For rec.moto.photo the file spec is [DOD]file. For example, you can send: dir [dod] send [dod]bruce_tanner.gif send [dod]dodframe.ps and you'll get back 5 mail messages; a directory listing, 3 uuencoded parts of bruce_tanner.gif, and the dodframe.ps file in ASCII. Oh, wildcards (*) are allowed, but a maximum of 20 mail messages (rounded up to the next whole file) are send. A 'send [dod]*.gif' would send 150 files of 50K each; not a good idea. -- Bruce Tanner (213) 860-2451 x 596 Tanner@Cerritos.EDU Cerritos College Norwalk, CA cerritos!tanner ********************************************************** A couple of comments: Bruce has put quite a bit of effort into this, so why not drop him a note if you find the rec.moto.photo archive useful? Second, since Bruce has provided the server as a favor, it would be kind of you to access it after normal working hours (California time). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patches? What patches? You may have heard mention of various DoD trinkets such as patches & pins. And your reaction was probably: ""I want!"", or ""That's sick!"", or perhaps ""That's sick! I want!"" Well, there's some good news and some bad news. The good news is that there's been an amazing variety of DoD-labeled widgets created. The bad news is that there isn't anywhere you can buy any of them. This isn't because of any ""exclusivity"" attempt, but simply because there is no ""DoD store"" that keeps a stock. All of the creations have been done by individual Denizens out of their own pockets. The typical procedure is someone says ""I'm thinking of having a DoD frammitz made, they'll cost $xx.xx, with $xx.xx going to the AMA museum. Anyone want one?"" Then orders are taken, and a batch of frammitzes large enough to cover the pre-paid orders is produced (and quickly consumed). So if you want a DoD doodad, act quickly the next time somebody decides to do one. Or produce one yourself if you see a void that needs filling, after all this is anarchy in action. Here's a possibly incomplete list of known DoD merchandise (and perpetrators). Patches (DoD#11), pins (DoD#99), stickers (DoD#99), motorcycle license plate frames (DoD#216), t-shirts (DoD#99), polo shirts (DoD#122), Zippo lighters (DoD#99) [LtF FtL], belt buckles (DoD#99), and patches (DoD#99) [a second batch was done (and rapidly consumed) by popular demand]. All ""profits"" have been donated to the American Motorcyclist Association Motorcycle Heritage Museum. As of June 1992, over $5500 dollars has been contributed to the museum fund by the DoD. If you visit the museum, you'll see a large plaque on the Founders' Wall in the name of ""Denizens of Doom, USENET, The World"", complete with a DoD pin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here's a letter from the AMA to the DoD regarding our contributions. ~Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles ~From: Arnie Skurow ~Subject: A letter from the Motorcycle Heritage Museum ~Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:04:58 GMT I received the following letter from Jim Rogers, director of the Museum, the other day. ""Dear Arnie and all members of the Denizens of Doom: Congratulations and expressions of gratitude are in order for you and the Denizens of Doom! With your recent donation, the total amount donated is now $5,500. On behalf of the AMHF, please extend my heartfeld gratitude to all the membership of the Denizens. The club's new plaque is presently being prepared. Of course, everyone is invited to come to the museum to see the plaque that will be installed in our Founders Foyer. By the way, I will personally mount a Denizens club pin on the plaque. Again, thank you for all your support, which means so much to the foundation, the museum, and the fulfillment of its goals. Sincerely, Jim Rogers, D.O.D. #0395 Director P.S. Please post on your computer bulletin board."" As you all know, even though the letter was addressed to me personally, it was meant for all of you who purchased DoD goodies that made this amount possible. Arnie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Rules, Regulations, & Bylaws of the Denizens of Doom Motorcycle Club From time to time there is some mention, discussion, or flame about the rules of the DoD. In order to fan the flames, here is the complete text of the rules governing the DoD. Rule #1. There are no rules. Rule #0. Go ride. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Other rec.motorcycles information resources. There are several general rec.motorcycles resources that may or may not have anything to do with the DoD. Most are posted on a regular basis, but they can also be obtained from the cerritos ftp/e-mail server (see the info on the photo archive above). A general rec.motorcycles FAQ is maintained by Dave Williams. Cerritos filenames are FAQn.TXT, where n is currently 1-5. The DoD Yellow Pages, a listing of motorcycle industry vendor phone numbers & addresses, is maintained by bob pakser. Cerritos filename is YELLOW_PAGES_Vnn, where n is the rev. number. The List of the DoD membership is maintained by The Keeper of the List. Cerritos filename is DOD.LIST. This WitDoD FAQ (surprise, surprise!) is maintained by yours truly. Cerritos filename is DOD_FAQ.TXT. Additions, corrections, etc. for any of the above should be aimed at the keepers of the respective texts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (Loki Jorgenson loki@Physics.McGill.CA) has provided an archive site for motorcycle and accessory reviews, here's an excerpt from his periodic announcement. ********************************************************** The Rec.Motorcycles.Reviews Archives (and World Famous Llama Emporium) contains a Veritable Plethora (tm) of bike (and accessories) reviews, written by rec.moto readers based on their own experiences. These invaluable gems of opinion (highly valued for their potential to reduce noise on the list) can be accessed via anonymous FTP, Email server or by personal request: Anonymous FTP: ftp.physics.mcgill.ca (132.206.9.13) under ~ftp/pub/DoD Email archive server: rm-reviews@ftp.physics.mcgill.ca Review submissions/questions: rm-reviews@physics.mcgill.ca NOTE: There is a difference in the addresses for review submission and using the Email archive server (ie. an ""ftp.""). To get started with the Email server, send an Email message with a line containing only ""send help"". NOTE: If your return address appears like domain!subdomain!host!username in your mail header, include a line like (or something similar) path username@host.subdomain.domain If you are interested in submitting a review of a bike that you already own(ed), PLEASE DO! There is a template of the format that the reviews are kept in (more or less) available at the archive site . For those who have Internet access but are unsure of how anonymous FTP works, an example script is available on request. ********************************************************** Reviews of any motorcycle related accessory or widget are welcome too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Updated stats & rec.motorcycles rides info Some of the info cited above in various places tends to be a moving target. Rather than trying to catch every occurence, I'm just sticking the latest info down here. Estimated rec.motorcycles readership: 35K [news.groups] Approximate DoD Membership: 975 [KotL] DoD contributions to the American Motorcyclist Association Motorcycle Heritage Museum. Over $5500 [Arnie] Organized (?) Rides: Summer 1992 saw more organized rides, with the Joust in its third year, and the Ride & Feed going strong, but without the Rollins Pass trip due to the collapse of a tunnel. The East Coast Denizens got together for the Right Coast Ride (RCR), with bikers from as far north as NH, and as far south as FL meeting in the Blueridge Mountains of North Carolina. The Pacific Northwest crew organized the first Great Pacific Northwest Dryside Gather (GPNDG), another successful excuse for riding motorcycles, and seeing the faces behind the names we all have come to know so well. [Thanks to Ed Green for the above addition.] Also worth mentioning are: The first rec.moto.dirt ride, held in the Moab/Canyonlands area of southern Utah. Riders from 5 states showed up, riding everything from monster BMWs to itty-bitty XRs to almost-legal 2-strokes. And though it's not an ""official"" (as if anything could be official with this crowd) rec.moto event, the vintage motorcycle races in Steamboat Springs, Colorado always provides a good excuse for netters to gather. There's also been the occasional Labor Day gather in Utah. European Denizens have staged some gathers too. (Your ad here, reasonable rates!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com BIX: blaine_g@bix.com FJ1200 Half of my vehicles and all of my computers are Kickstarted. DoD#46 -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com BIX: blaine_g@bix.com FJ1200 Half of my vehicles and all of my computers are Kickstarted. DoD#46 ",8 "Re: AD conversion >> I am working a data acquisition and analysis program to collect data >> from insect sensory organs. >> Another alternative is the use of the sound input port. > >Can you really make due with the non-existent dynamic range of an 8-bit >converter, of probably dubious linearity and monotonicity, and perhaps >AC-coupled as well? It would depend on the requirements of the poster's data, for some purposes 1/256 resolution (with or without calibration curve). Otherwise the other possibilities would be: 1) get a digital voltameter with serial output & connect to serial port on mac, collect data with some communications program. 2) Buy an A/D chip from Analog devices, Burr-Brown, etc, connect to a parallel to serial converter, use serial port for acquisition (nah. too much soldering and trouble shooting :-) 3) Get a board from National Instruments, Data Translation, Omega, etal. The finest solution, but possibly the most costly. To the original poster: if the signal is too large, why not use a voltage divider? Two resistors, cost very cheap... -- -george sukenick@sci.ccny.cuny.edu 212-650-6028 ",4 "Re: BATF/FBI revenge In article <2077@rwing.UUCP>, pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes: > I am sick, dismayed, discouraged. And ASHAMED of our Administration. > > It looks like the US now has their own little Tienamen Square. The > FBI is portraying Korash as a psychopath, doing a deliberate mass suicide, > etc. Possibly. Possibly not. I don't believe that the tear gas used > [...] > God Bless America - Land of the Free!!! (past tense). > > Well, maybe I AM overreacting. But I see on the TV as I am typing where > govt spoksewoman (the new attorney general, known to be almost rabid > about private ownership of guns - wants to ban 'assault guns' and just > about everything else), is saying the FBI had ""amazing restraint"", then > falls back into the official goverenment line about how the BD were > guity of child abuse, and were into it in an on-going basis, and so on. > [...] > Am I having a vain hope that an honest investigation will occur on this > thing? Or will it simply be whitewashed under the rug, and Business > as Usual will continue to be the Order of the Day in the New Order? > Who will be given the official title of ""Thought Police"", I wonder...? What a load of crap ! The BDs had absolutely NO RIGHT to fire upon the BATF agents. If they didn't know who they were at first, then they should have surrendered immediately when they did realize who they were dealing with. Little groups of loonies do not get to decide just what laws they will obey or disobey or what sorts of warrants are justified. Like the rest of us, they get their say at the voting booth and if their personal wants are not backed by the majority of voters, then too bad. If they wanted to keep automatic weapons, then they could apply for the proper permits. If they had a problem with the warrant then they get to argue that in court. In no event do they get to establish their own little nation inside our own and pretend that our laws and law-enforcement personel have no jurisdiction within their borders. You live on US territory, you live by US laws - period. (unless you are a congressman) Sure, the situation was handled badly by both the BATF and the FBI. It would have been all so easy to detain Koresh and his core members while they were out in the streets of Waco. The BATF, threatened with budget cuts, was trying for a propaganda coup ... and dragging the press along for the big commando-style assault is proof of that. They should be roasted for both their imcompetance and their mindset. On the other hand, they DID have the legal right to do what they did. Once the attack was begun, they should have pressed on and finished it rather than let an interminable situation like that take root. The FBI also used poor judgement in a number of ways - but again, the laws we voters have approved, or the lawmakers who created them, gave them the right to do what they did. If BATF and the FBI are latter-day Gestapo, it is because the voters have allowed them to become that way. Waco was pure Americana - militarist mentality, religious fanaticism and unadulterated violence all rolled into one experience. We get what we pay for, or vote for, and this was the result of many choices we have made over the years. Don't blame 'them' - blame ourselves. We made 'them', we ARE 'them'. ",16 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? st922957@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes: >Y'know, when the right to bear arms was ""invented"", all we had to worry >about was the shotgun and pistol. Now, we have to worry about drive-bys >with Uzis sparaying the entire neighborhood with bullets. > >Just because someting was good once, does not mean it will be forever. When the right to freedom of speech was ""invented"", all we had to worry about was printing presses and live speech. Now, we have to worry about violent movies influencing the young and tv beaming pornography into homes. Do you really believe we should start restricting constitutionally guaranteed freedoms because the technology has changed? Freedom is ageless. It was a good idea then and it still is. Be real careful when second guessing the founding fathers. Dave ",16 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism In article <30147@ursa.bear.com> halat@panther.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >In article <1r15rvINNh8p@ctron-news.ctron.com>, king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes: >>adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Andy Peters) writes: >>[Bill Rawlins writes] >>>> Macroevolution is >>>> a mixture of 15 percent science and 85 percent religion [guaranteed >>>> within three percent error :) ] >> > >To repeat what I had said in an earlier post: Evolution is >a theory. If you accept it as fact, then that is faith and >not much different from religion. Evolution, as I have said before, is theory _and_ fact. It is exactly the same amount of each as the existence of atoms and the existence of gravity. If you accept the existence of atoms and gravity as fact, then you should also accept the existence of evolution as fact. >-jim halat -- --Andy ""God is a real estate developer / with offices around the nation They say one day he'll liquidate / his holdings on High I say it's all speculation."" -- Michelle Shocked ",0 "Re: Why the clipper algorithm is secret In <1993Apr18.225502.358@iecc.cambridge.ma.us> johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes: (quoting someone else here) >>The cryptographic protocol, though, is another matter. I see no valid >>reasons for keeping it secret, and -- as I hope I've shown above -- there >>are a lot of ways to do things that aren't (quite) as bad. >It just occurred to me why the algorithm is secret. If it were >published, one could then build physically identical clone versions >of the chip that would interoperate with official Clipper chips. But >the cloner wouldn't provide the keys to the escrow houses. Hmmn. Yeah! The algorithm is classified because a military contract (or similar government equivalent to military) has been let for this ""proprietary"" design that the Feds say that NSA developed. Is there a patent? Is that patent publicly available? My betting is that that too is classified. If the algorithm were made public, or reverse-engineered, it would compromise not only the goal of Justice of being able to read every chip users cypto-data but would reduce profits for the selected chip maker. Wouldn't that just be too bad? -- *********************************************************************** * Danny O'Bedlam = dfl@panix.com = cmcl2!panix!dfl = Danny Lieberman * * PO Box 3131 Church St Station, New Yawk, New Yawk, 10008-3131 (usa) * *********************************************************************** ",11 "Re: ESPN's (lack of) coverage In article <1993Apr20.174439.7627@philabs.philips.com> jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio) writes: >The worst thing is that this is exactly what I did last year. I had the Rangers >on MSG, and the two different games on SCNY and SCA on at the same time. Yes, >I'd rather have SC cover it, just for the amount of coverage. > So this year you had a game on SCNY, a game on SCA, a game on ESPN, and if the Rangers hadn't crashed and burned, you would have had a game on MSG. What are you complaining about? I seem to recall last year everyone complaining about SC coverage. I even remember Orioles' games being shown in the DC area instead of hockey. And what about when SC failed to show the conclusion of other games because its feature game was over? Sound familiar? This year I'm getting twice the coverage. I can see all the Caps games *plus* the games ESPN shows. I think it's great that hockey is back on ESPN. IMHO, they're doing a great job especially considering the baseball contract they have to work around. -- Peter Kester pkester@mitre.org ",10 "Re: Lead Acid batteries & Concrete? In article <1993Apr22.220549.26828@dmu.ac.uk>, cph@dmu.ac.uk (Chris Hand) writes: |> Carter Ames (camter28@astro.ocis.temple.edu) wrote: |> : Why does a lead acid battery discharge and become dead (totally unuseable) |> : when stored on a concrete floor? I think it's because the lead gets coated with lead oxide if the battery is not being charged or discharged. I remember some advice from an ancient car manual guide my father had, which was to use car batteries to power a garage clock or something similar when they're not in a car. This is supposed to prevent the oxidation but I've no idea if it really works. The concrete floor connection is a red herring. |> |> It could be that you stored it somewhere that it could become covered |> by moisture or damp air, which would short out the terminals. This may contribute to discharging but would be reversible. |> |> The same thing happens to my car (Citroen 2CV) -- damp gets under the |> bonnet (US: ""hood"") and shorts the spark-plugs to earth so it won't start. |> |> The solution (for the car) is to clean the plug leads and spray with |> WD-40 (moisture repellant). If damp *is* the problem, then storing the Well, this is off-topic, but back in the days when I used to drive bangers I never found WD-40 to do anything that wiping with a dry cloth did'nt do. I think the effectiveness of WD-40 is a myth invented by the guy who owns the company. |> battery off the ground may help. I'm not sure if spraying with WD-40 |> would be safe since it is very flammable (high percentage petroleum). |> |> Just a thought... |> |> Chris |> |> -- Steve Collyer. ",12 "Re: eye dominance In article rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes: > Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an > overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most > people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the > other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this? > Thanks. Yes, there is such a thing as eye dominance, although I am not sure if this dominance refers to perscription strength. As i recall, if you selectively close your dominant eye, you will percieve that the image shifts. This will not happen if you close your other eye. I believe that which eye is dominant is related to handedness, but I can't recall the relation at the moment. -- Barry D. Benowitz EMail: bbenowit@telesciences.com (...!pyrnj!telesci!bbenowit) Phone: +1 609 866 1000 x354 Snail: Telesciences CO Systems, 351 New Albany Rd, Moorestown, NJ, 08057-1177 ",13 "Re: MAC DISKS IN WINDOWS? >Macsee.zip on ftp.cica.indiana.edu is supposed to read and write Mac disks. >I've never tried it, though. Good luck I just tried it, but I can't say that it works, 'cause it doesn't read 800K disks, it only reads 1.44Mb. If there a program that does read 800K disks, please let me know. ",2 "Re: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis >From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) >Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast >Subject: Re: rejoinder. Questions to Israelis >Date: 23 Apr 1993 12:55:47 GMT >Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA) > > > Although I realize that principle is not one of your strongest >points, I would still like to know why do do not ask any question >of this sort about the Arab countries. > > If you want to continue this think tank charade of yours, your >fixation on Israel must stop. You might have to start asking the >same sort of questions of Arab countries as well. You realize it >would not work, as the Arab countries' treatment of Jews over the >last several decades is so bad that your fixation on Israel would >begin to look like the biased attack that it is. > > Everyone in this group recognizes that your stupid 'Center for >Policy Research' is nothing more than a fancy name for some bigot >who hates Israel. > > Why don't you try being honest about your hatred of Israel? I >have heard that your family once lived in Israel, but the members >of your family could not cut the competition there. Is this true >about your family? Is this true about you? Is this actually not >about Israel, but is really a personal vendetta? Why are you not >the least bit objective about Israel? Do you think that the name >of your phony-baloney center hides your bias in the least? Get a >clue, Mr. Davidsson. Haven't you realized yet that when you post >such stupidity in this group, you are going to incur answers from >people who are armed with the truth? Haven't you realized that a >piece of selective data here and a piece there does not make up a >truth? Haven't you realized that you are in over your head? The >people who read this group are not as stupid as you would hope or >need them to be. This is not the place for such pseudo-analysis. >You will be continually ripped to shreds, until you start to show >some regard for objectivity. Or you can continue to show what an >anti-Israel zealot you are, trying to disguise your bias behind a >pompous name like the 'Center for Policy Research.' You ought to >know that you are a laughing stock, your 'Center' is considered a >joke, and until you either go away, or make at least some attempt >to be objective, you will have a place of honor among the clowns, >bigots, and idiots of Usenet. I couldn't have said it better, Mark! - Mike. ",17 "Re: Hockey Cards For Sale In formeza@panix.com (The Owl) writes: In case anyone missed it, I'm reposting this and I'm also selling some other stuff. >I would like to sell a few of my Hockey Cards sets: >1990-91 Upperdeck Hockey Low #'s Sets $45 >This is the first Upperdeck Hockey Set made. Important rookie cards in it are: >Mogilny, Roenick, Belfour, Recchi, Stevens, Jagr, Nolan, Nedved, Ricci, >Sundin, Modano, Richter and others! The Beckett price is $42, but I'm >Charging $45 to cover the Shipping and Packaging. I've sold one, but I still have 2 left for sale. I also realize that $45 is alot of money, especially if you don't normally collect cards. So if enough people are interested, I'll break up the set into team sets. I'm not sure how much for each. It would be nice to just sell them for $3 each, but then the people who get the Whalers and Devils (Note, I'm not bagging on these teams its just that they don't have alot of good rookie cards in this set) would be subsidizing the people who want Chicago or Pittsburgh. So I'll have to make it varialble pricing. But most of them should be about $2 or $3 dollars. >1991-92 Score Pinnacle (Candian) Sets $45 >This is a very nice set, premium quality cards. Has second year cards of the >players above, plus Bure, Potvin, Falloon, and Lindros ($15 value) second year >cards,and the following rookie cards: Lidstrom Kamensky, Zelepukin, Roussel, >Konstantinov. Beckett Price is $50, but I have alot of these. >1991-92 Upperdeck Czechoslovakian Set $60 >This is a 100 card set of the 92 World Junior Tournament. Meant for sale in >Czechoslovakia, but didn't sell well there, and some of it filtere back in >to the US. The cards are Bilingual. Has Lachance, Kovalev, and Straka Rookies. >If your interested, please e-mail me. Thanks Ok someone asked for this one, but he's from Canada, if he can get me the money in US funds then its his, if not, the first person who writes in will be the alternate. Also I would like to sell 2 Upperdeck Pavel Bure rookie cards (note these are not in the UD low #'s set mentioned above). $16 each. They are $15 in the book, but the $1 goes for postage, packaging and insurance. And if there is something you want that you don't see, e-mail me, I may have it or may be able to get it for you. Thanks, >The Owl >Ted Formeza >formeza@sun.panix.com ",10 "Re: Radar detector DETECTORS? >>> Are any brands ""quieter"" than others? >Yes some radar detectors are less detectable by radar detector >detectors. ;-) I have a Bel-966. I just looked at the manual yesterday... and it does indeed claim to be undetectable by RDD's. Pat ",12 "Re: WC 93: Results, April 18 dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes: > What's going on? The Russians and the Czechs are unable to beat easy >opponents, and the Swedes beat Austria only 1:0?!? > It's the ""opening-game effect"" maybe. Pros arrive late, nervousness for rookie WC players, and problems to get the lines clicking may make things hard to get it going against these ""worse"" nations. I'd guess that the better team you face in the opening game, the better it is, since the chances of an upset are greater then. Some other reasons why the ""worse"" teams are so tough to beat was presented by Hans ""Virus"" Lindberg (former coach in Switzerland). 1) The ""worse"" teams (referring to France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy etc) have now usually world class goalies. 2) Their defensive play have become much more disciplined, they take much less unnecessary penalties. 3) They use four lines which makes it harder to make them ""run out of gas."" 4) The ice quality in the German WC rinks is poor. > The only convincing winner was... Germany. Wierd. > Another weird thing was that the Czechs played entertaining hockey.. err.. just kidding, David. >p.s. Alex, I would like to see the Czech roster, including, if possible, >the clubs from which the players come. How many are ""Finnish"", ""German"", >or ""Swiss""? > Alex? That's a new name for me ;) OK, I forgot the Czech roster at home yesterday, but now I have it. I don't know the teams for all players, so I would appreciate if you guys could fill in the blanks for me (especially I think some of these players play in Finland). The Czech Republic ------------------ Goaltenders: 1. Petr Briza (Finland somewhere, right?) 2. Roman Turek Motor C. Budejovice Defense: 3. Leo Gudas ? 4. Milos Holan TJ Vitkovice 5. Drahomir Kadlec ? 6. Bedrich Scerban Brynas, Sweden 7. Antonin Stavjana HV 71, Sweden 8. Miroslav Horava MoDo, Sweden 9. Ales Flasar TJ Vitkovice Forwards: 10. Petr Rosol ? 12. Kamil Kastak HV 71, Sweden 13. Richard Zemlicka ? 14. Jiri Kucera ? 16. Jan Caloun HC Litvinov 18. Petr Hrbek ? 19. Tomas Kapusta ? 20. Otakar Janecky (Finland?) 21. Roman Horak Motor C. Budejovice 22. Martin Hostak MoDo, Sweden 24. Radek Toupal ? 26. Jiri Dolezal ? Staffan -- ((\\ //| Staffan Axelsson \\ //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se \\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey ",10 "Re: islamic authority over women In article , bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) wrote: > To credit religion with the awesome power to dominate history is to > misunderstand human nature, the function of religion and of course, > history. I believe that those who distort history in this way know > exaclty what they're doing, and do it only for affect. However, to underestimate the power of religion creating historical events is also a big misunderstanding. For instance, would the 30-year-old war have ever started if there were no fractions between the Protestants and the Vatican? Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",0 "Re: Question for those with popular morality In article <1993Apr02.025636.23256@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes: >/Why would it be immoral to hurt someone else? > /(me) >Because you wouldn't want it to happen to you. /(hudson) /Why does that make something immoral? Because you are not being consistent. Moral systems must be consistent. A person who thinks they can inflict pain on others, but doesn't want it inflicted upon themselves, has a double standard. And double standards are a violation of *any* moral system. (me) >Morality defines how we interact with other people; the rules that we >use to guide our daily affairs. Our conduct towards our fellow man. By >realizing that we don't like pain, we can also realize that other people >don't like it, either. /(hudson) /Of course we don't like pain. I don't like brussel sprouts. Are brussel /sprouts immoral? Pain isn't immoral, stupid. Pain itself is just a physiological reaction. What >>is<< immoral is subjecting unwilling individuals to pain. Or brussel sprouts, for that matter. (hudson) >/Is it immoral to produce these same chemical reactions in a test tube? > (me) >It isn't the chemical reaction that is wrong, bozo. It's making the human >being UNDERGO THE EFFECTS of the chemical reaction. Sorry; your cute >little analogy didn't survive for very long under scrutiny. /(hudson) /Why would it be wrong to make humans undergo the effects of the reactions /if humans are composed only of matter? What humans are composed of isn't the qualifying criteria of whether or not something would be wrong. /(hudson) /Is it wrong to make matter undergo chemical reactions? Yes, if it is sentient matter. /(me) />Nature is not a sentient force; there is no choice involved. Therefore, />no question of morality. /(hudson) /I actually heard a geologist entertain the notion that matter had a will. /There is some sentient force out there. Fine. I have also heard that the government is encoding the DNA for a new race of superhumans in ordinary drinking water. What's your point? /(hudson) /If humans are made only of matter, then choices are also chemical reactions, /so why is choice an important issue. And if that is the case, then god is only an idea contained in the minds of people (formed of matter) and on printed pages (also formed of matter) and does not really exist. I can do the argumentem ad absurdium just as well as you can, but it won't prove any points for you or me. Got anything relevant you want to talk about, or are you just playing cute little games? ",19 "Re: Easter: what's in a name? (was Re: New Testament Double Stan In article dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard) writes: > That argument would be more compelling if it were not for the >Ishtar eggs and Ishtar bunnies. Why mix pagan fertility symbols from the >worship of the pagan goddess of fertility with Biblical belief? What >would really be lost if all of you were to just drop the word ""Easter"" and >replace all such occurances with ""Resurrection Sunday""? Would you not >show up for services if they were called ""Resurrection Sunday Services"" >rather than ""Easter Services""? There is another way to view this. The True Celebration is Easter, the Resurrection of Our Lord. This has been true from the foundation of the world. Pagan practices are then either: 1. foreshadowings of the True Celebration of the Resurrection, in which dim light was shone forth so that people would recognize the full truth when it was manifested, OR 2. satanic counterfeits intended to deceive us so that we would not recognize the truth when it was manifested. I don't believe the second argument, because I believe in the power of the Resurrection, the fulfillment of the Incarnation, and our hope. Earlier or parallel ideas in other religions clearly are dim images of the truth of the Resurrection. As Paul states, we see through a glass darkly. So do others. It serves no purpose arguing about who has the darker or lighter glass. The foreshadowings are not perfect. So what? Our understnding of God is today imperfect, for we are not yet perfected. Theosis is not a gift such that WHAM, we're perfect. Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com) -- ------- Lawrence Overacker Shell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965 llo@shell.com ",15 "Re: BMW MOA members read this! As a new BMW owner I was thinking about signing up for the MOA, but right now it is beginning to look suspiciously like throwing money down a rathole. When you guys sort this out let me know. -- ******************************************************************************* * Bill Ranck (703) 231-9503 Bill.Ranck@vt.edu * * Computing Center, Virginia Polytchnic Inst. & State Univ., Blacksburg, Va. * ******************************************************************************* ",8 "Performance of new Mustangs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does anyone know the performance ratings for a 1992 or 1993 5.0 L HO Mustang LX like the 0-60 time 1/4 mile and top end ??? Also can you tell me which magazine where these #'s come from so I can look them up if possable ???? If you could the year and month and eveen page # if you have it. Thanks, Doug ",7 "Re: Christian Morality is In article <4963@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes: >In article 21627@ousrvr.oulu.fi, kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes: >|>Dan Schaertel,,, (dps@nasa.kodak.com) wrote: >|> >|> >|>What does this mean? To learn you must accept that you don't know >|>something, right-o. But to learn you must _accept_ something I don't >|>know, why? This is not the way I prefer to learn. It is unwise to >|>merely swallow everything you read. Suppose I write a book telling >|>how the Great Invisible Pink Unicorn (tm) has helped me in my >|>daily problems, would you accept this, since you can't know whether >|>it is true or not? >|> > >No one asks you to swallow everything, in fact Jesus warns against it. But let >me ask you a question. Do you beleive what you learn in history class, or for >that matter anything in school. I mean it's just what other people have told >you and you don't want to swallow what others say. right ... ? Right. >There is no way to get into a sceptical heart. You can not say you have given a >sincere effort with the attitude you seem to have. You must TRUST, not just go >to church and participate in it's activities. Were you ever willing to die for what >you believed? The Branch Dividians were. They believed and trusted so much that it became impossible to turn back to reality. What you are advocating is total irreversible brainwashing. Dan ",0 "Re: Hallam-Baker bashes tpgers (was Re: Welcome to Police State USA) In article <1993Apr22.041542.11054@a.cs.okstate.edu>, kennejs@a.cs.okstate.edu (KENNEDY JAMES SCOT) writes: |>From article , by hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker): |>> If anyone wants to understand the paranoid mindset of Koresh I offer you |>> talk.politics.guns. There you can dredge the sewers of minds so hung |>> up on power and ego trips that they bend reality arround their own |>> particular set of beleifs. |> |>Just what the hell do you base that ludicrous claim on? There are |>*plenty* of fine, decent people people who read/post to t.p.g. If |>any of these people are paranoid it is because of people like you. Hey dude you are making me paranoid! What an argument!!! |>> I long ago gave up arguing the case for arms control directly. Instead |>> I invite people to ask themselves, would you want to be in a room full |>> of the occupants of talk.politics.guns, their personal armouries and |>> attempt to enter a discussion with them? |> |>I'd have a spot of tea with them. :) You probably gave up on arguing the |>case for arms control directly long ago because posters who *know* |>what they are talking about (e.g., Frank Crary) disproved all your |>arguments for why more gun control is needed. So, you gave up because |>you know they are right and you couldn't refute their answers. No, Frank Crary's arguments are based on the assumption that most people are sane, normal people. tpg disproves this of gun owners. USEnet as a whole disproves it of humanity as a whole. We now have proof positive that guns don't make you safer. Buy a lot of guns and you either get shot in the no knock raid or get the FBI to burn down your house. See even in the paranoid mindset of tpg there are good reasons to support gun control. Cuddles 'n kisses Phill ",16 "Re: PDS vs. Nubus (was Re: LC III NuBus Capable?) In article <1qpc9g$4mr@bigboote.WPI.EDU> bchase@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Bret Chase) writes: >In article wis@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr. W.I. Sellers) writes: >>Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey (higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov) wrote: >>: In article , hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Brian V. Hughes) writes: >>: > mmiller@garnet.msen.com (Marvin Miller) writes: >>: >>My friend recently purchased a LC III and he wants to know if there is >>: >>such a demon called NuBus adapter for his PDS slot? >> >>: > The LC family of Macs can only >>: > use PDS cards. They are not able to use NuBus. >> >>: Ah, but why? Can some technically-hip Macslinger tell us what the >>: difference is between PDS and Nubus? >> >>: Is it impossible to make a gadget that plugs into PDS and ends in a >>: Nubus card cage? At least, Marvin's friend has not been able to >>: locate one and neither have I. What is the fundamental reason for >>: this? >> >>I think that there do exist NuBus expansion cages (I'm sure I've seen >>them advertised occassionally), but I think that the main problem is that >>they cost much more than the difference in price between say a LC and IIvx >>so unless you need lots of NuBus slots its not worth the bother. >> >>(Of course, it may be that these extra boxes are so expensive because >>no one buys them because they are so expensive...) >> >>NuBus technology isn't a special Apple Proprietry thing (I have this >>sneaky feeling that it is licensed from Texas Instruments???) so there >>is no problem building an expansion box. > >Apple uses the IEEE Nubus-90 standard for their 32 bit backplane bus. >(I got this from a technote that I reada couple of weeks ago) Well, almost NuBUS 90 anyway, comprehensive bus contention between processors is not supported in the current Macintoshes, could be wrong? However, I know for a fact from seeing the Cyclone Data Spec sheets myself, don't ask, Macintosh Cyclone models will provide full implementation of the NuBUS standard. Very interesting possibilities indeed! > >>>>>>>>>>>other stuff deleted<<<<<<<<< > >Hope this helps, >Bret Chase > > >-- >internet:bchase@wpi.wpi.edu Macintosh! >bellnet: (508) 791-3725 Smile! It won't kill you! >snailnet: wpi box 3129 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) > 100 institute rd. Worcester, MA 01609-2280 -Greg ",4 "Re: Looking for MOVIES w/ BIKES In article davide@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Dave Edmondson) writes: >Charles Sundheim (csundh30@ursa.calvin.edu) wrote: >: Folks, > >: I am assembling info for a Film Criticism class final project. How 'bout ""Big Faus and Little Halsey"" with Robert Redford and that little guy that was in Bonnie & Clyde. Good flick, IMHO. Michael -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael Nelson 1993 CBR900RR | | Internet: nelson@seahunt.imat.com Dod #0735 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ",8 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes: >andersom@spot.Colorado.EDU (Marc Anderson) writes: > >> methods. ``This year's crime bill will have teeth, not bare gums,'' >> Clinton said. In particular, his administration will place strict >> controls on data formats and protocols, and require the registration >> of so-called ``cryptographic keys,'' in the hope of denying drug >> dealers the ability to communicate in secret. Clinton said the >> approach could be used for crackdowns on other forms of underground >> economic activity, such as ``the deficit-causing tax evaders who >> live in luxury at the expense of our grandchildren.'' > >And some people thought that I am exaggerating when claiming that the >Cripple Chip is just a first step in a totalitarian plot against the >civil liberties in the USA... It seems that I've even been an optimist >- the things are happening even faster than I expected.... That's >another of the dirty tricks they used to apply on us under the >communist regime - do something secret, THEN tell the people about is >(after the fact, when nothing can be done any more), and of course, >explaining them how much better the situation is now... > >In my previous messages I wrote that the Americans should wake up and >fight against the new proposal. Now it seems to me that it is already >too late - it has already happened, the civil liberties have been >violated, no, stollen from the American people, while the most part of >this people has been sleeping happily... :-((( Too sad... > I'm definitely going to write my Congressman, and nobody's ever going to make me respect a law that violates my freedom of speech, and if the feds try to enforce this law on me, I will protect my freedoms, with force if it ever comes to that. (Hopefully, it won't) Doug Holland -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Doug Holland | Anyone who tries to take away my freedom | | holland@cs.colostate.edu | of speech will have to pry it from my | | PGP key available by E-mail | cold, dead lips!! | ",11 "Re: When is Apple going to ship CD300i's? In article <1993Apr19.164734.24779@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rjacks@austlcm.sps.mot.com (rodney jacks) writes: > I would really like to get one of the new CD300i CDROM > drives for my c650, but my local Apple doesn't know > when they will be available. He doesn't even have a part > number yet. Does anyone know what the part number > for this drive is and when it will be available? > > My Apple dealer suggested I buy one of the CD300 external > drives, but I don't want to pay extra for a case/power supply > I'm not going to use. > > -Rodney Jacks > (rjacks@austlcm.sps.mot.com) The CD300 (external) is already shipping and has been shipping for quite awhile now. Demand for the units are high, so they are pretty rare. I've seen them listed for around $525-550 at local computer stores and the campus Mac reseller. I've also heard rumors that they are bundled with a couple of CD's, but I can't confirm it. Sunny ===>sunnyt@dna.bchs.uh.edu ",4 "POV file constructor for Unix/X11 Hi, I'm just getting into PoVRay and I was wondering if there is a graphic package that outputs .POV files. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Later'ish Craig -- |\/\/\/\/\/| | ___ ___ | ""I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, |/ \/ \| you can't prove anything."" _ccc_c_#_|__#_ccc_c_____chumphre@comp.vuw.ac.nz_______________________________ ",1 "Re: serial port problem In article <1qcq4gINN2q7@calvin.usc.edu> wls@calvin.usc.edu writes: > > >A friend asked me to build a cable to connect an HP fetal heart monitor >to a Maciontosh (SE/30). No problem, sez I. > >... >I wanted to demo it on my PB 170, it won't work! > >The PB has been used running ZTerm and kermit using both internal and external >modems; so I don't think it's the powerbook per se. > >When I send a ""^51"" to the HP it responds with ""^55^AA"" -- a test of the serial >ports. It works on the SE/30; but not on the PB170. > >I thought that the SE/30 is connected to earth ground and so is the HP. So I >connected from the chassis of the HP to the PW audio (ground) connector; still >NG. > >Any thoughts? Battery powered devices like the PowerBook are sometimes more sensitive to serial port weirdness. I had trouble with connecting my Mac Plus to an HP 95LX handheld. Everything else worked okay on that port, but not the HP. (it runs on two penlite batteries). It turned out that the plus (by accident or by design flaw?) was putting a 4 volt bias on the serial port that was doing weird things to the HP (which has only 3v dc!). The HP worked fine when connected to the printer port. Does your PB screen get dim or anything when connected to the device? Have you tried using the printer port? Good luck. --jamie Jamie Cox jcox@ess.harris.com | Phone: 1 407 633 5757 (work) Harris Space Systems Corp. | 1 407 723 7935 (home) MS ROCK-2, 295 Barnes Blvd. |The Macintosh Meeting and Drinking Society Rockledge, Florida USA | ""Speaking only for myself."" ",4 "Re: Drawing Lines (inverse/xor) You can also set the Foreground to the XOR of the foreground and background colors: XSetForeground(..., fg ^ bg); This works great for me (at least with TrueColor visuals). ",5 "Re: erythromycin In article <47974@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> wsun@jeeves.ucsd.edu (Fiberman) writes: :Is erythromycin effective in treating pneumonia? : :-fm Not only is it effective, it is in fact the drug of choice for uncomplicated cases of community-acquired penumonia. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh = = General Internal Medicine | ""...dammit, not a programmer!"" = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ",13 "Re: Test ride on a GTS1000 In article 1r702fINNqsp@spim.mti.sgi.com, timl@zulu.mti.sgi.com (Tim Layman) writes: > > After signing the I will buy the bike if I wreck it and I will >not sue you no matter what papers, they just pointed me at the bike and >said have fun. I was a little nervous (well a lot nervous) mainly because >it is a very expensive bike and I would hate to have to buy a new one >let alone a wrecked one:^( Are you sure? Harley's disclaimer says, ""if you crash, we take care of the bike, you take care of you."" If you were really responsible for the bike, did your insurance cover it? --- Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker, Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM |and I showed him a picture of you. I said, DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |""Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"" (The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do... ",8 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1qvk8sINN9vo@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes: >I'm short of patience tonite, but rabid dogs deserve and get better treatment >than the BDs got. Although I'm an atheist, the events in Waco have really sickened me. It's truely a sad day for religious freedom in this country. The Branch Dividians may have been nutty (my general opinion of all religious people), but tax evasion and illegal possesion of firearms are certainly not grounds for destroying a people. The killing of the four BATF agents was surey a dispicable act, but that was an escalation of the confrontation which the BATF started. War is bad precisely because of humanity's tendancy for escalation. That principle applies to all cases of warfare- whether it's between nuclear superpowers, feuding families or fledgling religious groups and our federal govt. Why was warfare chosen as the course of action when patience and subtlety would also have worked? Why is the petty letter of the law more important than peoples' lives and religious beliefs? Perhaps the supposed professionals in our federal law inforcement agencies are just plain stupid. It was interesting to watch the 700 club today. Pat Robertson said that the ""Branch Dividians had met the firey end for worshipping their false god."" He also said that this was a terrible tragedy and that the FBI really blew it. However, I still feel that he's forgetting that every major religion in the world had a similarly humble 'cult-status' beginning- even, and perhaps especially, christianity. It is perhaps worthwhile to consider that the Branch Dividians' apocalyptic prophecies have been fulfilled. Maybe David Koresh really was Jesus Christ (sure sounds like a neat opening epic for a new major religion to me). -- /* jhallen@world.std.com (192.74.137.5) */ /* Joseph H. Allen */ int a[1817];main(z,p,q,r){for(p=80;q+p-80;p-=2*a[p])for(z=9;z--;)q=3&(r=time(0) +r*57)/7,q=q?q-1?q-2?1-p%79?-1:0:p%79-77?1:0:p<1659?79:0:p>158?-79:0,q?!a[p+q*2 ]?a[p+=a[p+=q]=q]=q:0:0;for(;q++-1817;)printf(q%79?""%c"":""%c\n"","" #""[!a[q-1]]);} ",19 "Re: Christians above the Law? was Clarification of pe In article dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe) writes: >>Jesus was a JEW, not a Christian. If a Christian means someone who believes in the divinity of Jesus, it is safe to say that Jesus was a Christian. -- ""On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey! On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole that she made from Leftover Turkey. [days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ... -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait) Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) ",19 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? >P.S. The title for this thread is ridiculous. Feds couldn't give a hoot >about their religous ideas - weapons was the problem. Similar situations >have popped up with those ""I'm not gonna pay taxes"" freaks in Idaho, etc. >where religion clearly has no bearing. Religous freedom here, as an issue, >is a complete smokescreen. Exactly. What would happen if I barracade myself in my house for a while with lots of firearms. Then, when the police come with a search warrent, first I slam the door in their face, then shoot at them when they try to enter. After this, I shoot at people who try to get me to come out. This sort of thing happens every now and then, and it usually ends up being a shoot-out between the police and the person(s) behind the barricade. Why are the Branch Davidians any different? Bruce Giese ",18 "Re: Divine providence vs. Murphy's Law In article rolfe@junior.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe) writes: >Romans 8:28 (RSV) We know that in everything God works for good with those >who love him, who are called according to his purpose. > >Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will. > >We are all quite familiar with the amplifications and commentary on >Murphy's Law. But how do we harmonize that with Romans 8:28? For that >matter, how appropriate is humor contradicted by Scripture? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I've always taken Murphy's Law to be an exhortation to prudence, and an observation about the behavior of complex systems, rather than a denial of divine benevolence. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",15 "Re: Yankee Thoughts In article <1993Apr20.154542.147196@clam.com>, sam@steamer.clam.com (Sam Mandelbaum) says: > >Yes - Everyone seems to be in agreement that the Yankees are >finally moving in the right direction. They should finish >over .500 this year and maybe even be in the pennent race >in August. However, I would take back a few moves: > >1. The Jim Abbott Trade. bleagh! this was a terrific trade. snow will certainly be better than mattingly in the future, but that they'll be about the same now is a defensible opinion. abbott is one of the few truly great pitchers in the game today. >2. Wade Boggs. i'm not sure about this one. i think that it's good, in that a pre-1992 boggs kicks hayes/meulens/whoevers' ass, and that a 1992 boggs still isn't ALL that shabby. it's bad, though, that the yankees expect a pre-1992 boggs, and will probably get a 1992 boggs. however, i'd still play boggs over hayes or bam bam. >3. Spike Owen. you have my full agreement here. he's not all that much better than velarde, and silvestri is just about a lock to be better than him. however, i do enjoy the fact that ""spike"" is not a nickname. not that this helps the yankees. >4. Danny Tartabull. i strongly disagree. i'd much much rather have a hundred games of tartabull and sixty games of dion james than 162 games of james. bob vesterman. ",9 "HOT NEW 3D Software There is a new product for the (IBM'ers) out there... it is called IMAGINE and it just started shipping yesterday... I can personally attest that it will blow the doors off of 3D-Studio. It is made by IMPUlSE, and is in its 3rd version....(1st) for the IBM.... it can do morphing, your standard key-framming animation, it is a raytracer (reflections & shadows), and can do/apply special FX to objects... (like ripple, explode, bounce) things of that nature. Also it has algorithmic texture maps....and your standard brushmapping also... you can have animated brushmaps...(ie. live video mapped on the objs)... also animated backdrops (ie. live video backgrounds) also animted reflections maps.... you get the idea.... it will run for about 500$ retail (I think)... dont let the low price fool you.... this product can do it all when it comes to 3D-animation and Renderering...! also....does anyone here know how to get in the Imagine mailing list?? please e-mail me if you do or post up here.... oh...the number for IMPULSE is --->1 800 328 0184 trb3@ra.msstate.edu ",1 "Re: New planet/Kuiper object found? tholen@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Dave Tholen) writes: >James Nicoll writes: >> If the new Kuiper belt object *is* called 'Karla', the next >> one should be called 'Smiley'. >No, no, no! The previous one was called ""Smiley"". 1992 QB1 = Smiley, >and 1993 FW = Karla. >By the way, 1992 QB1 can never be known as ""Smiley"" officially, because >that moniker has already been assigned to asteroid number 1613. Could someone explain where these names come from? I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason to name a planetoid ""Smiley,"" but I'm equally sure that I don't know what that reason is. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ""Find a way or make one."" -attributed to Hannibal ",14 "Re: Proof of the Viability of Gun Control Once the National Guard has been called into federal service, it is under the command of the present. Tha National Guard, though defined as the ""Militia"" in the statutes, is actually a reserve component of the United State Army, and was formed pursuant to the power of Congress to raise and support Armies. Neal ",18 "Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting I used to drive a truck a few years back. I once rode with an old codger that had been driving for about 30 yrs. The only time he would use the clutch was to get the truck moving. He could shift that 13 speed lightning quick, up or down, without the slightest rake of a gear. He was as smooth as silk. It was the most amazing shifting demonstration I've ever seen! Having said all that I still don't know why anyone would want to shift a synchronized tranny without a clutch? Why do it? ",7 "west coast NHL playoff games Us easterners who have newspapers with editors unsympathetic to playoff pools, often don't get summaries from west coast games since they finish too late at night for the morning edition. I (and I'm sure others too) would greatly appreciate it if scoring summaries of west coast playoff games could be posted to this group right away. basically, all we need are goal scorers and assists, don't bother with times, penalties, shots etc... this would make a lot of pool-obsessed people very happy. I guess with the Senators out golfing now, the local papers have lost interest. ;-) thanks. kd. -- ",10 "Re: plus minus stat In article 1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi, hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi () writes: >In article <1993Apr14.174139.6604@sol.UVic.CA>, gballent@vancouver.UVic.CA (Greg Ballentine) writes: >> >> >> +/- is a good stat because it is the only stat that I am aware of that >> takes into account defensive play. It isn't a measure of defensive >> play- it takes into account offense and defence- all aspects of play. > > If we are interested of real all-round players, the power play stats > should be considered, too. Because the power play is also one aspect > of play! There is still something to be done with these player evaluation > tools!! IMO any good player should score on power plays because of the man advantage. Very good power play scorers tend to become overrated because their point totals are inflated by power play points. +/- tends to expose these overrated players such as Brett Hull, John Cullen and Dave Andreychuck. Given the opportunity to play power play consistently, any player can inflate his totals. Gregmeister ",10 "Re: SGI sales practices (Was: Crimson (Was: Kubota Announcement?)) olson@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson) writes: > But surely you don't expect a system you buy now for a five year > period to be constantly upgradable over that entire five year period? What's sort of interesting about this whole thread is just how much it has in common with similar threads in groups dealing with other vendor's hardware. I currently deal basically with hardware from 3 vendors - Apple, DEC, and SGI - and thus tend to monitor the groups about those vendor's hardware. Currently, it seems like SGI customers are pissed at SGI about dropping support for the Personal Iris, DEC customers are pissed at DEC for dropping MIPS support in favor of the new Alpha boxes, and Apple customers seem to get pissed every time a new Mac is introduced that's faster and cheaper than the one they just bought. When I used to be a Sun customer years ago, I remember people being pissed at Sun for leaving their 386 and 680x0 customers out in the cold when Sparc came along. What's really interesting is that from what I can tell, the MIS folks in the basement with their ES/9000 don't seem to be pissed at IBM. Why? I have no idea. Either IBM really does take care of their customers better, or they just have their customers brainwashed better than the smaller vendors do. -- Roy Smith Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202 NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 ""This never happened to Bart Simpson."" ",1 "Re: Lead ACid Batteries Part 2!!! In article <1993Apr27.211036.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> jhwhit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes: >In article <1993Apr26.221422.17208@mprgate.mpr.ca>, vanderby@mprgate.mpr.ca (David Vanderbyl) writes: > >The lead-acid secondary cell discharge reaction is EXOTHERMIC. I am glad >you do not dispute this point. If you don't want the lead storage battery >to discharge, it should be stored such that its charged state is the >equilibrium state. During winter, the ground, be it covered with >concrete, dirt, or wood, maintains a cooler temperature on average than >the surrounding air or the battery. The heat capacity of air is less than >that of concrete, dirt, or wood, so it heats faster. Conversely, air cools >faster, too. > >The normal storage procedure for a battery is to leave it in an unheated >garage or basement. The storage surface is often cooler than the >surrounding air, with the battery temperature somewhere in-between. E.g., >the basement air temperature may be 70 F, the floor temperature 65 F, and >the battery temperature 66 F. > >The air temperature is HIGHER than the battery temperature. The heat of >reaction is not going to move up the gradient. The floor temperature is >LOWER than the battery temperature, and heat is going to move to it. The >floor is an incredible heat sink. > Might depend on where you live .. I know locally, for most of the winter the ground, and concrete floor, within sheds and garages (unheated) is signifacantly warmer than the average air temperature. The air does get warmer during the day, but during the night, the ground and concrete is definitely warmer, especially when protected by the walls from the albedo effect. And the nights are longer by several hours than the days. > >Jeff White jhwhit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu Richard Dell ",12 "Re: Atari Mono and VGA arosborn@oregon.uoregon.edu (Alan Osborn) writes: > In article <1993Apr19.090707.3686@tdb.uu.se>, m88max@tdb.uu.se (Max Brante) w > >Have anybody succeded in converting a atari monomchrome monitor into a > >mono VGA monitor. If so please let me know exactly how you did and what > >graphics card you used. > I wish I could help! I posted a similar question about two weeks ago; > I got no response at all. I've asked locally at my friendly Atari store. > I was told that it should be possible, but that they had no idea how > it might be done. Nor did they particularly care to investigate. OK, here's my results so far.... 1: You have to define the monitor as LCD - it doesn't really support Analogue video input (It works, but isn't very linear...) 2: The incoming sync pulses need inverting. This is best achieved with either a cmos XOR package or a transistor inverter. If you don't know how to do it, don't even contemplate it.. :-) 3: It'll only work in standard VGA mode. OK, having said that, I'm trying to either find a circuit or IC which will act as a universal sync decoder. I want somethikng which basically only detects the leading sync pulse edge, and doesn't care about the polarity, outputting the -ve going pulses that the atari monitor requires. There are 2 reasons for doing this 1: VGA cards change their sync polarity depending which mode they're in - herc emulation is +,- while MVGA is +,+ for example. 2: It means I don't have to put a toggle switch on the back of the monitor in order to be able to run it off both the atari and my IBM. Currently I have 3 (Yes, 3!) monitors sitting on my desk, and I want to get that number down as much as possible. Being able to use the atari monitor as a paper-white VGA will cut things down to 2. If I forget about Atari colour, I can get down to 1. Ultimately, the best course of action is to get a multisync monitor, but I'm as pressed for cash as anyone else, so it'll have to wait... -- Alan Brown dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz ",3 "Re: Looking For David E. Smyth zvi@nynexst.com (Zvi Guter) writes: >The author of Wcl (or the current care taker). His is the only name I found >in the dist tree. I have tried to mail him at: David.Smyth@ap.mchp.sni.de, >but the mail bounced back. Here I am!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Smyth david@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov Senior Software Engineer, (818)306-6463 (temp! do NOT use v-mail) X and Object Guru. tempory office: 525/B70 Jet Propulsion Lab, M/S 525-3660 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's the earliest possible date you can't prove it won't be done by? - Tom DeMarco ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",5 "Re: Why the drive speeds differ?? In mmatteo@mondrian.CSUFresno.EDU (Marc Matteo) writes: >I just got a La Cie 240 meg external hard drive. Speed tests show that it's >substantially faster that my internal 105 meg Quantum HD. Supposedly the 105 >and the 240 (both LPS drives) are roughly rated the same speed. Why such a >large difference? Could be better caching on the disk. Could be faster coil for seeks. Could be that the disk spins faster so data transfers faster. Could be that data is packed tighter so it transfers faster. Could be a faster SCSI command decoder in the drive. Among other things... -- -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe -- Engineering: ""How will this work?"" Science: ""Why will this work?"" Management: ""When will this work?"" Liberal Arts: ""Do you want fries with that?"" -- Jesse N. Schell ",4 "LET'S GO BUFFALO! You know, I never really appreciated them before! ",10 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen,TIH) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.230749.12821@reed.edu>, mblock@reed.edu (Matt Block) writes: >> I guess what I am saying is that your question is difficult, if not >>impossible, to answer. What exactly do you want to know? Do you need a good >>one for a project you are working on? How secure must it be? Are you trying >>to crack one that someone else has used? I can probably make suggestions, >>assuming the activity is strictly legal. (In general, it is a BAD idea, >>legally, to tamper with copy protection. It can also lead to corruption of >>files which you necessarily do not have back ups of (being as they are copy >>protected,) which can be devestating.) Do you have absolutely no ideas for >>practical applications, and are merely curious? >> Please clear up those questions, and I'll try to help as much as I >>can. >May we interpret this as an offer to volunteer as editor for a >""Copy protection FAQ"" ? I am quite sure that I am not alone welcoming such >an initiative! *I* will volunteer to ask some of the questions, if you will >provide the answers :-) >Ketil Albertsen That's great. Read my article. Edit out the personal formality, and save. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- George Gruschow Death do you gronk. ag625@yfn.ysu.edu ggruscho@nyx.cs.du.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",12 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1r0m89$r0o@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article <1qvu33$jk3@kyle.eitech.com> ekr@kyle.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: >#In article <1quokn$c49@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >#>In article <1qktbg$bmh@squick.eitech.com> ekr@squick.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: >#>#No, I don't see what the popularity of a value has to do with whether >#>#it is objective or not. Pls. explain. >#>If almost all people agree that the sun exists (in the usual, uncritical sense), >#>and almost all people agree that a deal is bad, it's a reasonable >#>conclusion that the sun really does exist, and that the deal really is bad. >#I disagree completely. Until rather recently, most people did not >#believe in evolution or the possibility of the atom bomb. Popular >#opinion is notoriously wrong about matters of fact. >True, but nevertheless the basis of all ""matters of fact"" is overwhelming >popular opinion, and some overwhelming popular opinion *is* fact (""the >sun shines""). If it were not so, physics would be a personal matter, >assumed to be different for each of us. There would be YourGravity and >MyGravity and no theoretical framework to encompass them and predict >both. This is simply complete nonsense. The basis for 'matters of fact' is, if any class of opinion, the majority of INFORMED popular opinion for some value of informed. I would really hate to base my knowledge of, for instance, QM on what the overwhelming popular opinion is. >about *raw* observations (""the dial reads 1.2"") matter, in other words, though >they can surely be mistaken (or even lying) there too (""I saw the statue >move!""). Getting to theories from raw facts is certainly error-prone, but >one assumes that the raw facts are usually as reported, otherwise science >is impossible. Opinions about 'raw facts' as you call them are somewhat different than interpretations of those raw facts. >Now I take an experience of good/evil to be every bit as raw a fact as an >experience of pain, or vision. That might seem like a good first pass guess, but it turns out to be a pretty cruddy way to look at things, because we all seem to have rather different opinions (experiences) about what is good and evil, while we seem to be able to agree on what the meter says. > For me, an ethical standard can be nothing >more than a hypothesis about the modification of observed value through >human actions (""It will be better if..."" == ""You ought""). See above. We can't seem to agree on what's better. > In that context, >then I see the choice as being between scepticism, relativism, and >objectivism. IMO, the existence of supermajority experiences of >good (life, freedom, truth, peace, love, intelligence) testifies that >objectivism is true for fundamental values - and this in turn is weak >evidence that objective ethics may be possible. I don't see that it's any evidence at all. As I point out above, I'm really not interested very much in what the popular opinion is. I'm prepared to trust--to some extent-- the popular opinion about direct matters of physical observation because by and large they accord with my own. However, if everyone else said the dial read 1.5 and it looked like a 3 to me, I would hope that I would believe myself. I.e. believing other people about these matters seems to have a reasonable probability of predicting what I would believe if I observed myself, but the possibility exists that it is not. Since I know from observation that others disagree with me about what is good, I believe I can discount popular opinion about 'good' from the beginning as a predictor of my opinion. I would say that the fact that it seems almost impossible to get people to agree on what is good in a really large number of situations is probably the best evidence that objective morality is bogus, actually. >#>#> I don't think I'm way off beam in saying that ""something is >#>#>better than nothing"" is a rational and objective valuation. >#>#Nope. No tetanus is better than tetanus. >#>I was referring to the situation at hand, in which ""something is better than >#>nothing "" is a rational valuation for any disinterested observer, not >#>making a general observation on all situations. But you knew that. >#No, I didn't. I assumed you were merely making a generalization >#which you hadn't thought through very carefully. You're not much of >#a mind-reader, Frank. >Nor are you, it seems. (cf. ""I assumed..."" above). Perhaps true, but I didn't make assertions about what you believed. You did. -Ekr -- Eric Rescorla ekr@eitech.com Would you buy used code from this man? ",19 "Re: Good Neighbor Political Hypocrisy Test In article <1993Apr15.193603.14228@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rscharfy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ryan C Scharfy) writes: >In article steveth@netcom.com (Steve Thomas) wri >tes: > >>Just _TRY_ to justify the War On Drugs, I _DARE_ you! > >A friend of mine who smoke pot every day and last Tuesday took 5 hits of acid >is still having trouble ""aiming"" for the bowl when he takes a dump. Don't as >me how, I just have seen the results. > >Boy, I really wish we we cut the drug war and have more people screwed up in >the head. I'm sorry about your friend. Really. But this anecdote does nothing to justify the ""war on drugs"". If anything, it demonstrates that the ""war"" is a miserable failure. What it demonstrates is that people will take drugs if they want to, legal or not. Perhaps if your friend were taking legal, regulated drugs under a doctors supervision he might not be in the position he's in now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...Dale Cook ""Any town having more churches than bars has a serious social problem."" ---Edward Abbey The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",18 "John 3:16 paraphrased At the end of a recent (Mon 19 Apr 1993) post, Alastair Thomson offers the following ""paraphrase"" of John 3:16: ""God loved the world so much, that he gave us His Son, to die in our place, so that we may have eternal life."" The ""to die in our place"" bothers me, since it inserts into the verse a doctrine not found in the original. Moreover, I suspect that the poster intends to affirm, not merely substitution, but forensic (or penal) substitution. I maintain that the Scriptures in speaking of the Atonement teach a doctrine of Substitution, but not one of Forensic Substitution. Those interested in pursuing the matter are invited to send for my essays on Genesis, either 4 thru 7 (on this question) or 1 through 7 (with lead-in). The n'th essay can be obtained by sending to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU the message GET GEN0n RUFF Yours, James Kiefer ""Any theologian worth his salt can put anything he wants to say in the form of a commentary on the Book of Genesis"" -- Walter Kaufman. ",15 "Re: More Diamond SS 24X From article <1993Apr20.195853.16179@samba.oit.unc.edu>, by dil.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Dave Laudicina): > Has anyone experienced a faint shadow at all resolutions using this > card. Is only in Windows. I have replaced card and am waiting on > latest drivers. Also have experienced General Protection Fault Errors > in WSPDPSF.DRV on Winword Tools Option menu and in WINFAX setup. > I had a ATI Ultra but was getting Genral Protection Fault errors > in an SPSS application. These card manufactures must have terrible > quality control to let products on the market with so many bugs. > What a hassle. Running on Gateway 2000 DX2/50. > Thx Dave L > > You're using drivers version 2.02 or earlier. The latest is 2.03, available from their BBS or by snailmail. It at least fixes the WfW problem. The reason I wanted to reply in public instead of private mail is because of following: I talked to their tech support a few days ago and was told that I can expect a new version near the end of the month. Which should be about now... However, I have a problem when switching back from a DOS session in standard mode. Apparently they don't know of this problem and seem to be surprised why anybody would want to use standard mode at all. It's a great card for the price, at least when I bought it. Now there may be better alternatives. Bo Peng ",2 "Re: What part of ""No"" don't you understand? In article <1993Apr24.214843.10940@midway.uchicago.edu> eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu writes: >In article <1rbh3n$hav@kyle.eitech.com> >ekr@kyle.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: >>In article <1993Apr24.002509.4017@midway.uchicago.edu> >>eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu writes: > >>>A ""moment of silence"" doesn't mean much unless *everyone* >>>participates. Otherwise it's not silent, now is it? > >>>Non-religious reasons for having a ""moment of silence"" for a dead >>>classmate: (1) to comfort the friends by showing respect to the >>>deceased , (2) to give the classmates a moment to grieve together, (3) >>>to give the friends a moment to remember their classmate *in the >>>context of the school*, (4) to deal with the fact that the classmate >>>is gone so that it's not disruptive later. > >>Yeah, all well and good. The fact is, though, that the pro-school >>prayer types have tried to use a moment of silence as a way >>to get prayer back. At my high school for instance, our dear >>principal ended the moment of silence with ""Amen."" >I can certainly see opposing the ""Amen"" -- but that doesn't require >opposing a moment of silence. I see it as the camel's nose. >>I'll back off when they do. >Does anybody else besides me see a vicious circle here? I guarantee >you the people who want school prayer aren't going to back off when >they can't even manage to get a quiet moment for their kids to pray >silently. I'm willing to take my chances on winning the whole thing, personally. -Ekr -- Eric Rescorla ekr@eitech.com ""What we've got here is failure to communicate."" ",19 "Re: Beginner's RF ??? In article klink@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (steven.r.klinkner) writes: >Can anybody recommend a good, application-oriented beginner's reference >to RF circuits? >Steve Klinkner AT&T Bell Labs srk@boeing.att.com I have the ARRL Handbook for the Radio AMateur, and I'm getting the Solid STate Design for the Radio Amateur. The handbook is $25 and Solid State is $12 from ARRL, 225 Main, Newington, CT 06111 but you should be able to find them at electronics or amateur radio stores. ARRL will want $5 or so for shipping. Good Luck, Galen Watts, KF0YJ ",12 "Re: Cross, Sobel & Roberts Filters ? In article <1993Apr28.090635.15878@waikato.ac.nz> pdenize@waikato.ac.nz writes: >I saw an imaging program some time ago on an Amiga that had >Cross, Sobel and Roberts filters for edge detection. > >Can anybody direct me to these algorithms. OK, never heard of Cross filters, but Roberts, Prewitt and Sobel filters are standard spatial masks for edge detection. Highpass filtering does a good job of detecting edges, too. A good reference for all sorts of general digital image processing is the book _Digital Image Processing_ by Rafael C. Gonzalez and Richard E. Woods. Addison-Wesley Publishing Co. 1992. ISBN 0-201-50803-6 I've used this source to do the above filters and many other things as a grad project. Not too dificult to do. The worst part is loading in the images from TIFF/GIF/IFF-ILBM/whatever! :) Wayne Rigby rigby@cs.unr.edu ",1 "Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME In article <1993Apr15.093231.5148@news.yale.edu>, (Steve Tomassi) writes: |> |> Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it? |> I |> |> mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it, |> as |> |> is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell |> |> Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in |> Eddie |> |> Murray and Jeff Reardon. I am trying to think how to respond to this without involving personal feeling or perceptions and I can not without having stats to back up my points. However, I think you approached this the wrong way. I believe all of the people mentioned here deserve the hall of fame more than Dave Kingman does. I feel they were all much better players. I am not saying I fell they deserve to go but that they would deserve it more. IMHO Dave Kingman - definately not. They guy only had a couple of years were he could hit with atleast a respectable averag. The rest of his career I do not think he was very feared by pitchers. I also do not think he did a lot for the game. I mean really I am a Met fan - he was a Met for part of his career and I still would not back him for the Hall of Fame. Dave Winfield - I think so. He is feared by pitchers, he has had several season where he hit for a respectable average and his production numbers are (in my opinion - without stats) better than Kingman's (probably by quite a bit). I also perceive him to be a leader, maybe not as much as some other people but none the less a leader. I think he has made substantial contributions to the game of baseball and to society. Examples of this are some of the charitable things he has done (I know some of this from when he was with the Yankees). I think he the type of player that kids can look up to and while this is definately not the only criteria for the Hall of Fame I think it deserves some consideration. Lee Smith - Maybe, I would have to see his stats again but he definately would deserve to go before the likes of Kingman. Darrell Evans - No. Eddie Murray - Maybe, He has had a very good career, he is a leader (although a silent one), he is a good role model. Are the stats good enough? I am not sure - but I would once again believe they are much better than Kingman's both the average as well as the power numbers (but not as good as Winfield's). Just think, Eddie did not have as much publicity for most of his great years. Jeff Reardon - My guess is no, but it kind of depends on his numbers. Off the top of my head I would take Lee Smith first. |> |> Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody |> giving |> |> Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards, |> marginal. |> |> Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both |> |> shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal. |> Well, I strongly disagree here. Both of these guys deserve it for sure. I talked about leadership above, both of these guys are leaders and have been instumental in leading their teams to the post season. Robin does have very good offensive numbers both average and power and Ozzie has okay numbers offensively. The difference with Ozzie is that if you gave him a home run for every run he saved by making an incredible play at shortstop - he would have shattered Aaron's home run mark by now. How many of those great plays saved games? How many of those great plays motivated his team to rally and win a game? While I believe both of these guys have numbers, baseball is about more than numbers (or at least winning at baseball is about more than numbers). Both of these guys are proven stars and belong in the Hall of Fame. As does George Brett who also belongs in this class of player. |> Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors |> so |> |> liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if |> something |> |> isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When |> |> certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential |> |> candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to |> |> the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan? |> Steve Garvey - I am not sure, probably not but I guess I could see someone making a case for him. Jack Morris - Once again not my first choice but I can see why someone might bring up his name. Kirby Puckett - Probably. The only reason I do not say definately is he still has time left in his career. If he continues doing what he has been then my probably will turn into a definately. Nolan Ryan - Is there really any doubt? I think I heard something about him having some 53 records (maybe they were not all good - I don't know I did not hear any of them just the number). He has the numbers, he has the contributions to the game and community and he is a great role model. I would not say that he is the best pitcher to ever pitch the game (probably not even top 20) but he would be the first pitcher I would put in the Hall of Fame because of his accomplishments (no-hitters, strikeouts, respectable numbers - even with some weaker teams) you can go on and on. I really hope he gets ALL the possible votes. So in summing up I have 3 groups, those that belong, those that probably do but I am not sure and those that I lean towards saying don't belong at least not without my seeing stats and possibly hearing reasons why they should go. Yes - Winfield, Yount, Brett(not in your mail), O. Smith, Puckett and Ryan Maybe - Murray and L. Smith No - Reardon, Garvey, Morris, Evans and definately Kingman As I said I do not have the stats around so I do not have numbers to back this up - these are entirely my opinions based on my perceptions. Mike |> |> Q Steve ",9 "Re: Tieing Abortion to Health Reform -- Is Clinton Nuts? note followup taite@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes ... > Wrong, NYC subway breath. Criminals are going to have guns regardless >of what legislative remedy you come up with. However, it is the law-abiding >citizens who suffer when guns are harder to obtain. Case in point: Washington, >D.C. is the murder capital of the U.S., but has banned handguns and has some >of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Overlooking entirely that there is nothing to prevent anyone from taking the bus across the river to buy guns. An utterly worthless statistic. > In the UK, I read recently that some young women >have been killing even without guns (which are nearly impossible to obtain >there) and it is a cause of great concern to the Brits. As it should be. They have a homicide rate that is a couple of orders of magnitude lower then this country's (as does almost everyone else in the world). But I suppose that it's too unreasonable to suppose that a lower availability of handguns has anything to do with that fact. > Well-armed citizens >mean that this country will never fear from the government, criminals or >invasion. Right. Remember those riots a while back? Remember what they were about? Nope, we have nothing to fear from the US government (unlike those Canadians living under the terribly oppressive regime up north). >Why should we want to compare our society which is extremely heterogeneous and >wealthy to one that is basically homogeneous and in dire straits? Britain basically homogeneous?!? In comparison to the US?!? Now I _know_ you're an ignorant putz. -- Ray Fischer ""Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth ray@netcom.com than lies."" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ",19 "Re: Looking for Women's Motorcycle Helmet lisa@alex.com (Lisa Rowlands) writes: >Hi Janice >I don't know if I'm being unduly cautious, but I wouldn't buy a used helmet, not for normal road use anyway. You never really know what's happened to them in their past life ! >Have fun, >Lisa Rowlands I'll second that!! I saw a list somewhere of all the stuff that it was unwise to buy secondhand - stuff like parachutes, toilet paper, condoms and motorcycle helmets... Seriously though, why take the risk? You are extremely unlikely to get a good-fitting secondhand helmet, cos life just doesn't work like that! And as Lisa says, you never know where it's been before... ",8 "Trident 8900 switch settings (someone archive this!) T8900DIP.TXT - Jeffrey E. Hundstad (j3gum@vax1.mankato.msus.edu) Switch Settings on the Trident 8900C ----------------------------------\ /-----------------| | --------- | | 9 ----| | xx 8 8 8 8 ------- ------- | 1 | xx | 6 | | 10 | |---| | | | 4 ------- | 2 | xx ------ j1 j2 |---| | xx 8 8 8 8 ------- -------- | 3 | | 5 | | 5 | |---| |--------------| ------- |-| -------- 7 |-| | |-----------| |-------------------| |----------- VGA Graphics Adapter Layout #1 (8-DRAM) ----------------------------------\ /-----------------| | --------- 4 j3 | | ------- 9 ----| | 11 8 8 8 8 | | -------- | 1 | | 6 | | 10 | |---| | ------- 4 ------- -------- | 2 | j2 | 5 | |---| | 11 8 8 8 8 ------- | 3 | | 5 | 4 j1 |---| |--------------| |-| -------- 7 |-| | |-----------| |-------------------| |----------- VGA Graphics Adapter Layout #2 (2/4/8 - DRAM) ----------------------------------\ /-----------------| | --------- 4 j3 | | ------- 9 ----| | 11 8 8 8 8 | | -------- | 1 | | 6 | ------- | 10 | |---| | ------- 4 | 5 | -------- | 2 | j2 ------- |---| | 11 8 8 8 8 | 5 | | 3 | 4 j3 ------- |---| |--------------| |-| |-| 4 j1 | |-----------| |-------------------| |----------- VGA GRaphics Adapter Layout #3 (2/4/8 - DRAM) 1. Dip Switches 2. DB-15 connector: For analog monitors. 3. DB-9 connector: for TTL monitors. (* NOTE #1) 4. Jumers J1, J2, J3, J4 (J3 for layouts #2 and #3, J4 for layout #3) 5. Video BIOS: Basic Input/Ouput System. 6. TVGA 8900 Chip: VGA GRaphics chip. 7. Edge connector: For IBM PC/XT, PC/AT and compatible systems. 8. Video DRAM: up to 1MB 9. Feature connector: For special applications. 10. Video DAC 11. Jumper Blocks JP1 and JP2 (2/4/8 board only) * NOTE #1 - Hardware option. Feature not present for all board versions. Switch settings for the 6 switch dip box (#1 from figures). Switch 3: Scan Rate On - Less than 48KHz (default) Off - 38-49Khz Switch 5: Fast and Slow Address Decode Off - Fast address decode (default) On - Slow address decode Switch 6: 8/16 bit Data Path Off - 16-bit data path (default) On - 8-bit data path Jumper settings J1: Settings for IRQ9 1 2 3 1 2 3 xxx xxx Off (def) On J2: Settings for Bus Size Detections 1 1 x 2 x 2 x 3 x 3 Autodetect Standard Interface (def) J3: Settings for DRAM Configuration 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 ---- | | ---- ---- | | ---- 4 5 6 4 5 6 4 5 6 Two DRAM Four DRAM Eight DRAM J4: DRAM Clock Select 1 2 3 1 2 3 xxx xxx 40 MHz 48 MHz Two DRAM 4/8 DRAM SW1 & SW2 Swich Setings | SW1 | SW2 --------------------+-----+---- VGA mode (default) | On | On EGA mode | Off | On CGA mode | On | Off MDA/Hercules mode | Off | Off ",3 "'72 Chevelle SS forsale I don't want to sell this car, but I need money for college. 1972 Chevelle Super Sport Rebuilt 402, four speed, 12 Bolt positrac Numbers match 110,000 original miles no rust Looks and runs excellent $5995 or best offer. Call Dennis at (503)343-3759 or email dennisk@cs.uoregon.edu ",7 "conf:mideast.levant From: Center for Policy Research Subject: conf:mideast.levant Rights of children violated by the State of Israel (selected articles of the IV Geneva Convention of 1949) ------------------------------------------------------------- Article 31: No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties. Article 32: The High Contracting Parties specifically agree that each of them is prohibited from taking any measure of such a character as to cause the physical suffering or extermination of protected persons in their hands. This prohibition applies not only to murder, torture, corporal punishment (...) but also to any other measures of brutality whether applied by civilian or military agents. Article 33: No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Article 34: Taking of hostages is prohibited. Article 49: Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive. Article 50: The Occupying Power shall, with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions devoted to the care and education of children. Article 53: Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations. PS: It is obvious that violations of the above articles are also violations of the International Convention of the Rights of the Child. ",17 "Re: Posted Gif of BMW R100S > If any would care to see any more close-ups or different angles, I can > post others to a.b.p also. I would be happy to submit one to cerritos > if someone wants to write me and tell me how... I would prefer a picture with you in it. Since most motorcycles don't post, and are rather similar looking (i.e all R100S's are more alike than they are different), it is the people that are ultimately more interesting. From archive_policy.txt: > If you already have a picture in some machine-readable format (GIF preferred), > you can FTP it to Cerritos.edu account 'anonymous' password 'incoming', binary > mode and notify me by mail or mail it uuencoded to tanner@cerritos.edu. > >Please include a one or two line description for inclusion in AAAREADME.TXT. BTW, I have Charlie Smith's pictures available. > Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.| Interestingly, I've been to Stanley, ID by motorcycle. Nice little town, nice road getting there. -Bruce -- Bruce Tanner (310) 860-2451 x 596 Tanner@Cerritos.EDU Cerritos College Norwalk, CA DoD #0161 NOMAD #007 ",8 "Zane!!Rescue us from Simmons!! So far Simmons looks like a total idiot. 1) Zane Smith should learn how to ""switchpitch"" and return from the DL. I would rather have Zane Smith pitch right handed than have Moeller pitch at all. 2) I am sure Simmons was ready to say I told you so after Otto had an impressive win last week. NOw Otto's latest debacle has restored Simmon's reputation. Now he looks like he is back in his '92 form when he had the AL's highest ERA among starters. Four our sake(not Ted's sake), I hope he pitches with a 3.5 ERA for the rest of the season. Yeah, right. 3) Tomlin and Merced are a bit disappointing. They are still doing decently. BUt considering the considerable amount of talent and maturity they have shown their first seasons, they seem to have actually gotten a little bit worse. Tomlin was almost unhittable his rookie year against lefty batters. Merced had a very good OBA his rookie year. He showed a lot of concentration at the plate in his rookie year. 4) Walk: Well, he seems to be on the losing end tonight. BUt I still think that Walk desrved his contract. 5) Leyland should accept a part of the blame for the LaValliere situation. I can't understand his and management's fear of losing Tom Prince through waivers. Even if they do, what's the use. He is aright hander like Slaught. Not a very smart platoon. Also, I am blaming Leyland in this case, since he is hcurrently convinced that LaVAlliere is through, while giving him way too much time last year in the regular season AND the playoffs(SLaught should have played in all 7 games; he has a good average against right handed pitching). Didn't Leyland and Simmons forsee this last year, and attempt to trade LaValliere last year itself? Any fool could tell them LaVAlliere wasn't very fit last year. 6) Dennis MOeller is SCARY!!! 7) Candeleria: Well, he is not going to have such a high ERA at the end of the season. Maybe it will be in 3-4 range. BUt $1 million plus? Come on. Other than the customary home run giving stage Patterson goes through for a few weeks, Patterson has served the PIrates very well each year. So far, he seems to have pitched well for the Rangers. I think the PIrates should have spent the money on Patterson in stead. 8) The Rookie batters: Well, Young has surprised me a bit with his instant impact. Other than that, their excellent performance hasn't been too much of a surprise. I think we should thank Doughty for that. 9) Rookie Pitchers: Worse than expected, especially Cooke. 10) Slaught: How come he wasn't given a contract extension last year? NOw his value has increased immensely. 11) Lonnie Smith!! Well, Eric Davis was signed for a comparable amount. Let's see. Eric can hit better. He can run better. He can field better. Now why didnt the PIrates go after Eric Davis. An injured Davis is better than a healthy Lonnie Smith. Even if Lonnnie Smith gets some big hits this year,he won't be an asset. He has looked terrible on the bases and in the field. 12) Management: BIG BIG ZERO. Sauer has yet to make a forceful agreement in favor of revenue sharing. He seems more concerned about pleasing that idiot Danforth by preparing the team for a move to Tampa Bay. 13) Alex Cole fiasco. The PIrates infield and CF positions look good. The RF and LF would have looked good if we could have gotten Cole to replace two of the four outfielders. Eric Davis, Van Slyke and Cole would have made a very respectable outfield. Even without Eric Davis, thye PIrates would have a respectable outfield with Cole, SVan Slyke, and Merced(I think he should hit left handed against lefts in stead of switch hitting). Simmons did have options for the outfield. Ironically, the biggest accomplishment of Simmon's tenure was getting Alex Cole really cheap. Too bad. 14) Compensatory draft picks for Bonds: Forget it. The pirates can rant and rave. they will not get those picks. As of now, the issue is still being appealed. Now, if this doesnt convince anyone that Simmons and Sauer are idiots, nothing else will. On a final note. Tim Wakefield won't be as awful as he was in his last 2 starts. BUt don't count on him pitching like last year for the rest of the season. Also, if the Pirates are in contention towards rthe end of the season, they will miss Redus's clutch hitting and his speed(he has peaked in the second half of the last 2 seasons)> -Pravin Ratnam ",9 "non-Apple Mon for Duo's The Duo's can drive Apple's 16"" monitor at 832x624 resolution and 256 colors, I think. What non-Apple 16-17"" monitors can also be used? Would a multisync NEC-5FG work as well at the same resolution? What are the outstanding points of the Apple monitor when compared with these other monitors? -- Denis ",4 "Quadra 700 Memory Install FAQ This is turning into a FAQ Here is how to violate your Quadra 700 warranty and install your own memory. 1) Insert usual disclaimer here 2) Remove the top lid of the machine. You will see the floppy disk and hard drive mounted in a plastic tower. Follow the usual anti-static precautions and of course make sure the machine is OFF when you do this. Unplug the wall and monitor power supply cords from the back of the mac. 3) Remove the power supply by pulling the plastic interlocking tab on the tower forward and simultaneously pulling the power supply straight up. The tab is a piece of plastic from the left posterior aspect of the tower which extends downward to hook on to the power supply. You may also feel a horseshoe shaped piece at the right portion of the power supply. Leave that alone. The plastic tab from the tower is all you need release. 4) Look at the rear of the tower assembly. You will see the flat ribbon SCSI connector to the hard drive, a power cable and a flat ribbon cable leading to the floppy drive. Disconnect all these from the motherboard. The hard drive power cable connector has a tab which must be squeezed to release it. 5) Unplug the drive activity LED from its clear plastic mount 6) Look down the posterior, cylindrical section of the plastic tower. A phillips head screw is at the base. Remove it, taking care not to drop it into the case. A bit of gummy glue on your screwdriver is helpful here. 7) Remove the tower assembly by pulling medially the plastic tab on the right side of the tower. This tab prevents the tower from sliding posteriorly. Slide the entire tower assembly 1 cm posteriorly then lift the tower assembly straight up and out of the case. 8) Congratulations, you have now gained access to your machine's SIMM slots. 9) The six big slots are for VRAM. One usually must install all six to gain useful video modes. All SIMMS (RAM or VRAM) installed with their chips facing the front of the motherboard. The four smaller sockets in front are for RAM SIMMS. Install SIMMS in sets of four into these sockets. Be sure you seat the SIMMS squarely and firmly into a fully upright position. 10) Reinstall the tower assembly by first placing the right wall of the tower against the right wall of the case with the tower assembly about 1 cm posterior of its intended position. Lower the tower assembly into place while maintaining contact with the right wall of the case. Once fully down, slide the tower assembly anteriorly until it clicks into place. 11) Reconnect the motherboard ends of the cables. DONT'T FORGET THE FLOPPY DRIVE CABLE. 12) Replace the phillips head screw 13) Drop the power supply straight down into place until it clicks in. 14) Plug the hard drive activity light back into its clear plastic mount Guy Kuo ",4 "Homebuilt PAL (EPLD) programer? Anyone know a reasonable circuit for programming PALs? I am interested in programming a wide range of EPLDs but would be happy with something that could handle a 22V10 or thereabouts. Thanks in advance, --Tim --- {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ timd@fenian.dell.com }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Rev. Tim Deagan - Official Obnoxious Poster No one but me is responsible for anything I write, believe in or preach * ""It is difficult to free fools from chains they revere."" - Voltaire * ",12 "[lds] Rick's reply Rick Anderson replied to my letter with... ra> In article , ra> psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) says: ra> ra> > Well, Jason, it's heretical in a few ways. The first point is that ra> > this equates Lucifer and Jesus as being the same type of being. ra> > However, Lucifer is a created being: ""Thou [wast] perfect in thy ra> > ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in ra> > thee."" (Ezekiel 28:15). While Jesus is uncreated, and the Creator of ra> > all things: ""In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with ra> > God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. ra> > All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made ra> > that was made."" (John 1:1-3) ""And he is before all things, and by ra> > him all things consist."" (Colossians 1:17) ra> ra> Your inference from the Ezekiel and John passages that Lucifer was ra> ""created"" and that Jesus was not depends on a particular interpetation of ra> the word ""create"" -- one with which many Christians may not agree. ra> Granted the Mormon belief that all of God's children (including Christ ra> and Lucifer) are eternally existent intelligences which were ""organized"" ra> into spirit children by God, the term ""creation"" can apply equally well ra> to both of those passages. Just briefly, on something that you mentioned in passing. You refer to differing interpretations of ""create,"" and say that many Christians may not agree. So what? That is really irrelevant. We do not base our faith on how many people think one way or another, do we? The bottom line is truth, regardless of popularity of opinions. Also, I find it rather strange that in trying to persuade that created and eternally existent are equivalent, you say ""granted the Mormon belief..."" You can't grant your conclusion and then expect the point to have been addressed. In order to reply to the issue, you have to address and answer the point that was raised, and not just jump to the conclusion that you grant. The Bible states that Lucifer was created. The Bible states that Jesus is the creator of all. The contradiction that we have is that the LDS belief is that Jesus and Lucifer were the same. ra> > Your point that we all are brothers of Jesus and Lucifer is also ra> > heretical, since we are not innately brothers and sisters of Christ. ra> > We are adopted, ""For ye have not received the spirit of bondage ra> > again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby ra> > we cry, Abba, Father."" (Romans 8:15); and not the natural children ra> > of God. It is only through faith that we even enter the family of ra> > God; ""For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."" ra> > (Galatians 3:26). And it is only through the manifestation of this ra> > faith in receiving Jesus that we are become the sons of God. ""But ra> > as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of ra> > God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not ra> > of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but ra> > of God."" (John 1:12-13) ra> ra> Has it occured to you, Robert, that being ""born of"" someone or being ra> of that person (or Person)'s ""family"" may be a symbolic term in the New ra> Testament? Mormons believe that we are ""adopted"" into the House of ra> Israel through baptism and faith in Christ, although some have expressed ra> belief that this does evince a physical change in our bodies. The Mormon belief is that all are children of God. Literally. There is nothing symbolic about it. This however, contradicts what the Bible says. The Bible teaches that not everyone is a child of God: The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; (Matthew 13:38) I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. (John 8:38) Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:41-44) And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, [thou] child of the devil, [thou] enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? (Acts 13:10) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (Ephesians 2:2) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:10) One becomes a child of God... But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:1-2) ...when he is born again through faith in Jesus Christ: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, (Ephesians 1:5) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (Romans 8:14-16) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. (1 John 4:7) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. (1 John 5:1) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:26) ra> > We are told that, ""And this is life eternal, that they might know ra> > thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."" ra> > (John 17:3). Life eternal is to know the only true God. Yet the ra> > doctrines of the LDS that I have mentioned portray a vastly ra> > different Jesus, a Jesus that cannot be reconciled with the Jesus of ra> > the Bible. They are so far removed from each other that to proclaim ra> > one as being true denies the other from being true. According to the ra> > Bible, eternal life is dependent on knowing the only true God, and ra> > not the construct of imagination. ra> ra> ra> Robert, with all due respect, who died and left you Chief Arbiter of ra> Correct Biblical Interpretation? I don't mean to be snotty about this, ra> but the fact is that the Bible is so differently interpreted by different ra> groups of Biblical scholars (what do you think of the Jehovah's ra> Witnesses, for example?) that to make reference to the ""Jesus of the ra> Bible"" is simply ridiculous. Whose ""Jesus of the Bible"" do you mean? This is really a red herring. It doesn't address any issue raised, but rather, it seeks to obfuscate. The fact that some groups try to read something into the Bible, doesn't change what the Bible teaches. For example, the fact that the Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Deity of Christ does not alter what the Bible teaches [ ""Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"" (Titus 2:13),""Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:"" (2 Peter 1:1)] on the Deity of Christ. We first look to the Bible to see what it teaches. To discount, or not even address, what the Bible teaches because there are some groups that have differing views is self-defeating. To see what the Bible teaches, you have to look at the Bible. ra> > ""Our Lord's mortality was essential to his own salvation"" (_The ra> > Promised Messiah_, p. 456), ""He had to work out his own salvation by ra> > doing the will of the Father in all things"" (ibid., p.54), ""he had ra> > to be baptized to gain admission to the celestial kingdom"" (_Mormon ra> > Doctrine_, p.71). ra> ra> Welcome to the wonderful world of Mormon paradoctrine, Robert. The ra> above books are by the late Bruce R. McConkie, a former general authority ra> of the LDS Church. Those books were not published by the Church, nor do ra> they constitute ""offical doctrine."" They consist of his opinions. Now, ra> does that mean that what he says is not true? Not at all; I'll have to ra> think about the idea of Christ's personal salvation before I come to any ra> conclusions myself. The conclusions I come to may seem ""heretical"" to ra> you, but I'm prepared to accept that. I find this rather curious. When I mentioned that the Mormon belief is that Jesus needed to be saved, I put forward some quotes from the late apostle, Bruce McConkie. The curious part is that no one addressed the issue of `Jesus needing to be saved.' Rick comes the closest with his ""I have my own conclusions"" to addressing the point. Most of the other replies have instead hop-scotched to the issue of Bruce McConkie and whether his views were 'official doctrine.' I don't think that it matters if McConkie's views were canon. That is not the issue. Were McConkie's writings indicative of Mormon belief on this subject is the real issue. The indication from Rick is that they may certainly be. ============================= Robert Weiss psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu ",19 "THE DIVINE MASTERS THE DIVINE MASTERS Most Christians would agree, and correctly so, that Jesus Christ was a Divine Master, and a projection of God into the physical world, God Incarnate. But there are some very important related facts that Christians are COMPLETELY IGNORANT of, as are followers of most other world religions. First, Jesus Christ was NOT unique, John 3:16 NOTWITH- STANDING. There is ALWAYS at least one such Divine Master (God Incarnate) PHYSICALLY ALIVE in this world AT ALL TIMES, a continuous succession THROUGHOUT HISTORY, both before and after the life of Jesus. The followers of some of these Masters founded the world's major religions, usually PERVERTING the teachings of their Master in the process. Christians, for example, added THREATS of ""ETERNAL DAMNATION"" in Hell, and DELETED the teaching of REincarnation. Secondly, and more importantly, after a particular Master physically dies and leaves this world, there is NOTHING that He can do for ANYbody except for the relatively few people that He INITIATED while He was still PHYSICALLY alive. (THAT IS SIMPLY THE WAY GOD SET THINGS UP IN THE UNIVERSES.) Therefore, all those Christians who worship Jesus, and pray to Jesus, and expect Jesus to return and save them from their sins, are only KIDDING THEMSELVES, and have allowed themselves to be DUPED by a religion that was mostly MANUFACTURED by the Romans. And emotional ""feelings"" are a TOTALLY DECEIVING indicator for religious validity. These things are similarly true for followers of most other major world religions, including Islam. Thirdly, the primary function of each Master is to tune His Initiates into the ""AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM"" or ""SOUND CURRENT"", (referred to as ""THE WORD"" in John 1:1-5, and as ""The River of Life"" in Revelation 22:1), and to personally guide each of them thru the upper levels of Heaven while they are still connected to their living physical bodies by a ""silver cord"". True Salvation, which completes a Soul's cycles of REincarnation in the physical and psychic planes, is achieved only by reaching at least the ""SOUL PLANE"", which is five levels or universes above the physical universe, and this canNOT be done without the help of a PHYSICALLY-Living Divine Master. One such Divine Master alive today is an American, Sri Harold Klemp, the Living ""Eck"" Master or ""Mahanta"" for the ""Eckankar"" organization, now headquartered in Minneapolis, (P.O. Box 27300; zip 55427). Another Divine Master is Maharaj Gurinder Singh Ji, now living in Punjab, India, and is associated with the ""Sant Mat"" organization. One of the classic books on this subject is ""THE PATH OF THE MASTERS"" (Radha Soami Books, P.O. Box 242, Gardena, CA 90247), written in 1939 by Dr. Julian Johnson, a theologian and surgeon who spent the last years of his life in India studying under and closely observing the Sant Mat Master of that time, Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji. Several of the Eckankar books, including some authored by Sri Paul Twitchell or Sri Harold Klemp, can be found in most public and university libraries and some book stores, or obtained thru inter-library loan. The book ""ECKANKAR--THE KEY TO SECRET WORLDS"", by Sri Paul Twitchell, is ANOTHER classic. Many Christians are likely to confuse the Masters with the ""Anti-Christ"", which is or was to be a temporary world dictator during the so-called ""last days"". But the Masters don't ever rule, even when asked or expected to do so as Jesus was. People who continue following Christianity, Islam, or other orthodox religions with a physically-DEAD Master, will CONTINUE on their cycles of REincarnation, between the Psychic Planes and this MISERABLE physical world, until they finally accept Initiation from a PHYSICALLY-LIVING Divine Master. RE-INCARNATION The book ""HERE AND HEREAFTER"", by Ruth Montgomery, describes several kinds of evidence supporting REincarnation as a FACT OF LIFE, including HYPNOTIC REGRESSIONS to past lives [about 50% accurate; the subconscious mind sometimes makes things up, especially with a bad hypnotist], SPONTANEOUS RECALL (especially by young children, some of whom can identify their most recent previous relatives, homes, possessions, etc.), DREAM RECALL of past life experi- ences, DEJA VU (familiarity with a far off land while travel- ing there for the first time on vacation), the psychic read- ings of the late EDGAR CAYCE, and EVEN SUPPORTING STATEMENTS FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE including Matthew 17:11-13 (John the Baptist was the REINCARNATION of Elias.) and John 9:1-2 (How can a person POSSIBLY sin before he is born, unless he LIVED BEFORE?!). [ ALWAYS use the ""KING JAMES VERSION"". Later versions are PER-VERSIONS! ] Strong INTERESTS, innate TALENTS, strong PHOBIAS, etc., typically originate from a person's PAST LIVES. For example, a strong fear of swimming in or traveling over water usually results from having DROWNED at the end of a PREVIOUS LIFE. And sometimes a person will take AN IMMEDIATE DISLIKE to another person being met for the first time in THIS life, because of a bad encounter with him during a PREVIOUS INCARNATION. The teaching of REincarnation also includes the LAW OF KARMA (Galatians 6:7, Revelation 13:10, etc.). People would behave much better toward each other if they knew that their actions in the present will surely be reaped by them in the future, or in a FUTURE INCARNATION! ""2nd COMINGS"" If a Divine Master physically dies (""translates"") before a particular Initiate of His does, then when that Initiate physically dies (""translates""), the Master will meet him on the Astral level and take him directly to the Soul Plane. This is the ONE AND ONLY correct meaning of a 2nd Coming. It is an INDIVIDUAL experience, NOT something that happens for everyone all at once. People who are still waiting for Jesus' ""2nd Coming"" are WAITING IN VAIN. PLANES OF EXISTENCE The physical universe is the LOWEST of at least a DOZEN major levels of existence. Above the Physical Plane is the Astral Plane, the Causal Plane, the Mental Plane, the Etheric Plane (often counted as the upper part of the Mental Plane), the Soul Plane, and several higher Spiritual Planes. The Soul Plane is the FIRST TRUE HEAVEN, (counting upward from the Physical). The planes between (but NOT including) the Physical and Soul Planes are called the Psychic Planes. It is likely that ESP, telepathy, astrological influences, radionic effects, biological transmutations [See the 1972 book with that title.], and other phenomena without an apparent physical origin, result from INTERACTIONS between the Psychic Planes and the Physical Plane. The major planes are also SUB-DIVIDED. For example, a sub-plane of the Astral Plane is called ""Hades"", and the Christian Hell occupies a SMALL part of it, created there LESS THAN 2000 YEARS AGO by the EARLY CATHOLIC CHURCH by some kind of black magic or by simply teaching its existence in a THREATENING manner. The Christian ""Heaven"" is located elsewhere on the Astral Plane. Good Christians will go there for a short while and then REincarnate back to Earth. SOUND CURRENT vs. BLIND FAITH The Christian religion demands of its followers an extraordinary amount of BLIND FAITH backed up by little more than GOOD FEELING (which is TOTALLY DECEIVING). If a person is not HEARING some form of the ""SOUND CURRENT"" (""THE WORD"", ""THE BANI"", ""THE AUDIBLE LIFE STREAM""), then his cycles of REINCARNATION in this MISERABLE world WILL CONTINUE. The ""SOUND CURRENT"" manifests differently for different Initiates, and can sound like a rushing wind, ocean waves on the sea shore, buzzing bees, higher-pitched buzzing sound, a flute, various heavenly music, or other sounds. In Eckankar, Members start hearing it near the end of their first year as a Member. This and other experiences (such as ""SOUL TRAVEL"") REPLACE blind faith. For more information, answers to your questions, etc., please consult my CITED SOURCES (3 books, 2 addresses). UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. Robert E. McElwaine 2nd Initiate in Eckankar, (but not an agent thereof) ",19 "Re: Ax the ATF In article <1r1173INNajc@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM writes: >Even if it were a capital offense, the warrant was not even an arrest warrant, >but a search warrant. In other words, there was no evidence of illegal >arms, just enough of a suggestion to get a judge to sign a license to >search for illegal evidence. It's hard to know what/who to believe. However, the letter I received from the BATF, in response to one I sent to Bentsen, said that there was a search warrant AND an arrest warrant. don ",16 "Re: Seeking a simple wm pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes: >In article basile@soleil.serma.cea.fr (Basile STARYNKEVITCH) writes: >> I'm seeking a *simple* window manager (ICCCM compliant) with a minimal doc. >> I don't want ol*wm twm gwm *twm. >Whatever happened to uwm? Is it still available in some form? It's >been years since I used it or heard anyone talk about it. I'm 99&44/100% positive that uwm isn't ICCCM compliant. If you want it, the R4 sources are still available on export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12) in /pub/R4. -- Kaleb ",5 "White Sands & DC-X It is interesting to note in the past few days' correspondance that some believe that poor old New Mexico is not capable of hosting a commercial space launch business. For many reasons, it can, and we here on the front lines see no reason why it should not. The 'spaceport political publicity' referred to the other day had its intended effect - the state of New Mexico did establish the start of the necessary government infrastructure to back a commercial space port. The commanding general at WSMR is in full support of dual-use for the facilities. The WSMR location also has some strategic advantages in the form of necessary infrastructure and controlled air space to support the project. Just because the folks involved have not done the traditional aerospace-equivalent of vapor-ware by inviting folks out to kick non-existent tires but have been merely doing their job to prepare for launch, don't think that nothing has happened. From my interactions with the MACDAC folks, I get the impression that they want to set a firm, believable launch date based on vehicle readiness and not just some fiction to plug a space on a calendar. I believe that all will happen this summer and don't worry, the locals here are planning to let everyone know when it does occur. Stephen Horan shoran@nmsu.edu ",14 "Re: Matt Militzok please read! In article , gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu (George Pavlic) wrote: > > > Sorry to everyone for wasting space. Matt, the other day you posted that > you were doing a mailing list of playoff stats. I lost your address. > Please put me on that list. Thanks. > > George Sorry again. I guess you need my address. gp2011@mailserver.bgsu.edu ",10 "Re: Krillean Photography In article ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt) writes: >In article mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) writes: >> Besides, Kirilian photography is actually photography of my >>friend's two-year-old son Kiril. Perhaps you meant ""Kirlian""? > >I think it was a typo for ""Karelian photography"", which is the >practice of taking pictures of either Finns or Russians, depending >on whom one asks. Think we can lose the sci.image.processing group from this thread, folks? Thanks bunches. spl -- Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu San Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608 ""My other car is a car, too."" - Bumper strip seen on I-805 ",13 "Re: Mary's assumption David.Bernard@central.sun.com (Dave Bernard) writes: >When Elizabeth greeted Mary, Elizabeth said something to the effect that >Mary, out of all women, was blessed. If so, it appears that this >exactly places Mary beyond the sanctification of normal humanity. I don't see how this logically follows. True enough, Mary received a blessing beyond any granted in all the history of humanity by being privileged to be the mother of the Savior. It says nothing about Mary needing to be a ""blessed person"" _first_ in order that she might thereby be worthy to bear the Son of God. Again, I think the problem is that as humans we can't comprehend how the sinless Incarnation could spring from sinful human flesh and God's Spirit. Rather than simply accept the gracious miracle of God, we must needs try to dope out a mechanism or rationale as to how this could be. Mary's own words, ""...my spirit rejoices in God _my Savior_, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden,..."" sound like the words of a human aware of her own humanity, in need of a Savior, similar to what David proclaimed in his psalms...not the words of a holy being with no further need for God's grace. I really apologize for harping on this, I don't suppose it's important. It's just that I see Mary and Joseph and the Baby reduced to placid, serene figurines I feel we lose the wonder in the fact that God chose to come down to you and I, to be born of people like you and I, to share our existence and redeem us from it's fallenness by his holy Incarnation. -- paul marxhausen .... ....... ............. ............ ............ .......... .. . . . . . university of nebraska - lincoln . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . grace . . . . . . . . . . . . happens . ",15 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: #In article <1qkhju$43c@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #> Truth is better than falsehood, # # So, if you were housing a Jew in your home in Holand, 1942; and #the SS troopers asks if you are housing a Jew, is it objectively better to #tell the truth, "" I am holding a Jew "", than a falsehood, "" No I am not #holding a Jew""? # # In this case, let us assume that if you lie, the SS trooper leaves, #never to bother you. Either way, nothing is ever done to you- no prison, #trouble, etc. # # Of course, if you tell the truth, then the Jew will be executed. # # Is it better to tell the truth, or lie? Good question, my point was that a world with truth is better than a world with falsehood. A world in which it were possible to say ""yes, I am holding a Jew"" (the truth) and you, me, the Jew, and the SS guy all sit down to crack open a bottle of whiskey is better than the grim alternatives you present. Obviously, this is not possible, and the best alternative seems to be to lie. That's because other values are involved, such as life. Now that IS just my opinion - don't confuse the claim 'objective morality exists' with the claim 'I have a lock on morals'. N.B., sir, I could have responded with 'according to you, truth does not exist, therefore it is impossible to tell it. What is true for you may not be true for me'. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article (sci.crypt,alt.security,comp.org.ieee), strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > Maybe so, but it's quite common. There are millions of Macintosh users who > have no idea what's in Apple's patented ROMs. Many have modems connected. > How do you know all your business secrets aren't being stolen? Answer: > 1. Because you trust Apple; > 2. Because if any such attempt, however sophicsticated, came out, it would > destroy Apple's credibility forever. > David, Neither (1) or (2) apply with the government, though. The feds, unlike Apple, have repeatedly demonstrated that trust is an unsafe thread on which to hang your freedom. Why? Because unlike Apple in (2), the govt has no credibility to lose. I'm serious about this. One can name just about any agency -- the IRS, RTC, FCC, FAA, FBI, NSA, CIA -- and find numerous examples of the public trust run roughshod over. Worse, one can rarely find in such examples any serious consequences to the offending agency. Even supposing we could get a reign on trust somehow, there's always the matter of competence in govt agencies. Can they even trust themselves? -mel P.S. I was amused when you mentioned the USDA as an example of an agency capable of managing the an escrow. I'm a consultant to the USDA, and while those *I* work with are wonderful , the agency itself is ranked in industry publications such as Govt Computer News as one of the worst caretakers of its computer resources. Recently, Prime Time Live did a long segment on the USDA's computer troubles. They are making a concerted effort to change, but intentions don't make a track record. ________________________________________________________________________ | Mel beckman | Internet: mbeckman@mbeckman.com | | Beckman Software Engineering | Compuserve: 75226,2257 | | Ventura, CA 93003 | Voice/fax: 805/647-1641 805/647-3125 | |______________________________|_______________________________________| ""You can observe a lot just by watching."" -Yogi Bera ",11 "Help finding best Development Kit I'm new to the MS-Windows world, and while a fairly competent Sparc/Nextstep programmer, I have no idea which development kit to purchase. I have heard good things about Borland C++ with Application Frameworks and Microsoft's Visual C++ with SDK (?) What I would like is peoples comments on which package or set of tools they find useful or productive and why. There are a plethora of other kits such as GUI toolkits available and I'm wondering which of these are best in terms of reliability, plug and go type operation, readability and so on. I'd be interested in comments on these or anything else you may find useful. I will summarize to the net if there is enough interest. Thanks, Veenu vrr@cbnewsj.att.com ",2 "Re: The Manitoban Candidate In a previous article, smith@phoneme.harvard.edu (Steven Smith) says: >With yet another tax being floated by the Clinton administration to >pay for new ``free'' social programs, I've really begun to suspect >that the Canadians, long resentful of their place in the American >shadow, brainwashed an American draft dodger who fled to Canada some Hey, he HAS been talking with Mulroney a lot, huh? ",18 "Re: Fungus ""epidemic"" in CA? >In article steward@cup.portal.com (John Joseph Deltuvia) writes: > >>There was a story a few weeks ago on a network news show about some sort >>of fungus which supposedly attacks the bone structure and is somewhat >>widespread in California. Anybody hear anything about this one? > The only fungus I know of from California is Coccidiomycosis. I hadn't heard that it attacked bone. It attacks lung and if you are especially unlucky, the central nervous system. Nothing new about it. It's been around for years. THey call it ""valley fever"", since it is found in the inland valleys, not on the coast. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN! In article lloyd@uclink.berkeley.edu (Lloyd Nebres) writes: >>>(Look at all that Teal!!!! BLEAH!!!!!!!!!) > >Indeed, if the color teal on a team's uniforms is any indication of the >future, the Marlins are in dire trouble! Refer to the San Jose Sharks for >proof... But I have hope for the Marlins. I was a sometime member of the >Rene Lachemann fan club at the Oakland Coliseum, and have a deep respect >for the guy. He's a gem. And, of course, Walt Weiss gives that franchise >class. But yeah... whoever designed those uniforms was guilty of a paucity >of style and imagination. Ugghhh! Maybe I'm just a child of the 80's, but I really liked the Marlins' uniforms. The helmets shine nicely in the sun. It's enough to make me a fan. -- ted frank | ""However Teel should have mentioned that though thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | his advice is legally sound, if you follow it the u of c law school | you will probably wind up in jail."" standard disclaimers | -- James Donald, in misc.legal ",9 "Re: Where are they now? Your posting provoked me into checking my save file for memorable posts. The first I captured was by Ken Arromdee on 19 Feb 1990, on the subject ""Re: atheist too?"". That was article #473 here; your question was article #53766, which is an average of about 48 articles a day for the last three years. As others have noted, the current posting rate is such that my kill file is depressing large...... Among the posting I saved in the early days were articles from the following notables: >From: loren@sunlight.llnl.gov (Loren Petrich) >From: jchrist@nazareth.israel.rel (Jesus Christ of Nazareth) >From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) >From: perry@apollo.HP.COM (Jim Perry) >From: lippard@uavax0.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) >From: minsky@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky) An interesting bunch.... I wonder where #2 is? --- Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Select. (geoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM) --------------------------------------------------+------------------- ""What if they made the whole thing up? | ""The Great Lie"" by Four guys, two thousand years ago, over wine..."" | The Tear Garden ",0 "Re: Benediktine Metaphysics In article <66019@mimsy.umd.edu> mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes: >Benedikt Rosenau writes, with great authority: > >> IF IT IS CONTRADICTORY IT CANNOT EXIST. > >""Contradictory"" is a property of language. If I correct this to > > THINGS DEFINED BY CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE DO NOT EXIST > >I will object to definitions as reality. If you then amend it to > > THINGS DESCRIBED BY CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE DO NOT EXIST > >then we've come to something which is plainly false. Failures in >description are merely failures in description. How about this description: ""An object that is, at one time, both a Euclidean square and a Euclidean circle""? I hold that no object satisfying this description could exist. The description is inconsistent, and hence describes an object that could not exist. Now, suppose someone pointed to a bicycle, and said, ""That object is, at one time, both a Euclidean square and a Euclidean circle."" This does not mean that the bicycle does not exist, it measn that the description was incorrectly applied. The atheist says, ""The descriptions of God that I have been presented with are contradictory, and hence describe something that cannot exist."" Now, your position (so far as I can gather) is that God exists, but the descriptions atheists have been presented with are simply bad descriptions of It. This is roughly analogous to someone who has never seen a bicycle, and, when they ask for a description from people who claim to have seen one, are told that it is a ""Euclidean circle-square"". Can they be blamed for doubting rather strongly that this 'bicycle' exists at all? >(I'm not an objectivist, remember.) No kidding. :-> Sincerely, Ray Ingles ingles@engin.umich.edu ""The meek can *have* the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars!"" - Robert A. Heinlein ",0 "Voltage regulation and current limiting One not-so-quick question to throw out there for you guys... For our class project, we need to design and build a power supply to the following specs: Voltatge: adjustable from 1-12V Current: *limited* at 1A Voltage must stay within 2% of designated value for I from 0-1A AC ripple less than 5 mV (rms) Of course, we can't just use an adjustable voltage, current-limiting regulator chip ;^) Our problem is with the current limiting (i.e. we've found stuff to do the rest of the parts of the circuit). What the supply must do, if presented with a load which would draw more than 1A, given the supply voltage, is reduce the voltage so that the current will equal one amp. Thus, if we were to short the thing with the ammeter, we should read one amp. If we measure the current through a 1 ohm resistor at 12V, we should read one amp (and the output voltage, by necessity, must be 1V. The only basic idea we have seen for the current limiter involves a circuit which will pull current off of the base of the output power transistor, and therefore reduce the output. So, does anybody have any ideas we could work from? Thanks in advance. Andy Collins, KC6YEY acollins@uclink.berkeley.edu ps: If anybody wants to flame this as a stupid project, I agree fully, but I still have to do it, its graded ;^) ",12 "MIT R5 on Sun with Rasterops TC Colorboard Is it possible to run an MIT R5 based Xserver on a Sun with a Rasterops TC Colorboard (24bit board)? I have the Xsun24 patches for supporting sun's 24bit frame buffers but does the rasterops appear as if its a cgtwelve or something else? I know nothing about the rasterops other than we might be buying one to put in an IPX. cheers mark ",5 "Info needed: 2D contour plotting Hi Everyone-- It's spend-the-money-before-it-goes-away time here at U.Florida and we need to find some PC-based software that will do contour plotting with irregular boundaries,i.e., a 2-D profile of a soil system with a pond superimposed /----------------- on it. We've given SURFER a POND / | trial run but it interpolates / | contours out into the pond and/or ----------/ | creates artifacts at the borders. | SOIL | If anyone out there knows of a | | product, I'ld appreciate hearing |________________________________| about it. If there is enough of a response, I'll post a summary. Thanks -- (and now back to lurking). Steve Bloom, Soil & Water Science, U.Fl (SAB@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU) ",1 "Re: Portland earthquake In article cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Rea) writes: >in history seems to imply some pretty serious sin. The one of the >pastors in the church I attend, Christchurch City Elim, considers >that a prophesy of a natural disaster as a ""judgement from the Lord"" >is a clear sign that the ""prophesy"" is not from the Lord. I would like to see his reasoning behind this. You may have gotten ""burned"" by natural disaster prophecies down there, but that does not mean that every natural disaster/judgement prophecy is false. Take a quick look at the book of Jeremiah and it is obvious that judgement prophecies can be valid. here in the US, it seems like we might have more of a problem with positive prophecies, though I am sure there may be a few people who are too into judgement. Sometimes God does give words that are difficult to swallow. The relative positiveness of a prophecy is not necesarily grounds to dismiss it. Much of the OT is not happy stuff. Link Hudson. ",15 "Re: Fast polygon routine needed For some reason I never saw the original post on this thread, but if you are looking for fast polygon routines on vga on a PC, you really can't go past the mode X stuff from Dr Dobbs. This code is all p.domain (as far as I know), and in the original articles, the routines were all presented as dumb vga routines, and then optimised to modeX with some interesting discussion along the way. If you are interested, I could find out more details of the issues in question, (I have them at home). Bernard. ",1 "Re: Pgp, PEM, and RFC's (Was: Cryptography Patents) Charles Kincy (ckincy@cs.umr.edu) wrote: : In article <1993Apr16.001321.3692@natasha.portal.com> bob@natasha.portal.com (Bob Cain) writes: : : >: I hope my cynicism is misplaced here. Go ahead...I'm not afraid to : >: be wrong every once in a while. But, I have an uneasy feeling that I : >: am right. :( : > : >It is and you are wrong yet you emotionally state a bunch of crap as fact : >with a tiny disclaimer at the end. Check your facts first and grow up. : >Why is there such a strong correlation between interest in cryptography : >and immaturity I wonder. : : Oh, I see, flame someone, tell them that they are immature, tell them : they are wrong, and then don't offer any proof for your assertions. : : You really *are* a putz. Put up or shut up. : I will provide any proof you wish in private. Name it, dickhead. Putz Cain ",11 "*** HELP! Newly installed Falcon 2.21 bombs my SE! (Crashed internal HD) HELP! I just received my Falcon 2.2.1 upgrade from Spectrum Holobyte today. My SE is running Sys 7.0.1 with 4mb of RAM. Like the instructions said, I only installed Disk 2 (The program...no start up screen or music). I just downloaded Macsbug from ftp.apple.com like it said, and installed it in my System folder. I restarted the mac an hour later, and it wouldn't completely boot off the internal HD. I get the ""happy mac"", then it disappears, only to reappear and repeat the cycle continuously. I never even get the ""Welcome to Macintosh"" message. Norton utilities fixed about 12 new problems, but the same thing still happened. What do I do? Please e-mail to ""orly@aludra.usc.edu"" THANKS IN ADVANCE!!! Victor Orly ; -- |Victor R. Orly | ""Try to imagine all life as you know it, | |aka ""Mr. Nitro Plastique"" | stopping instantaneously, and every molecule | |Univ. of Southern California | in your body exploding at the speed of light""| |Internet: orly@aludra.usc.edu| -Egon Spengler, from ""Ghostbusters"" | ",4 "Re: V-max handling request bradw@Newbridge.COM (Brad Warkentin) writes: >............. Seriously, handling is probably as good as the big standards >of the early 80's but not compareable to whats state of the art these days. I think you have to go a little further back. This opinion comes from riding CB750's GS1000's KZ1300's and a V-Max. I find no enjoyment in riding a V-Max fast on a twisty road. -- Clayton T. Brooks _,,-^`--. From the heart cbrooks@ms.uky.edu 722 POT U o'Ky .__,-' * \ of the blue cbrooks@ukma.bitnet Lex. KY 40506 _/ ,/ grass and {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!cbrooks 606-257-6807 (__,-----------'' bourbon country AMA NMA MAA AMS ACBL DoD ",8 "Isolation amplifiers for EEG/ECG *cheap* I have several isolation amplifier boards that are the ideal interface for EEG and ECG. Isolation is essential for safety when connecting line-powered equipment to electrodes on the body. These boards incorporate the Burr-Brown 3656 isolation module that currently sells for $133, plus other op amps to produce an overall voltage gain of 350-400. They are like new and guaranteed good. $20 postpaid, schematic included. Please email me for more data. --Ken Carver ",13 "Re: The doctrine of Original Sin In article Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com writes: >>Eugene Bigelow writes: >>>Doesn't the Bible say that God is a fair god [sic]? If this is true, >>how can >this possibly be fair to the infants? >Andrew Byler writes: >>[What do you mean fair? God is just, giving to everyone what they >>deserve. As all infants are in sin from the time of conception (cf >>Romans 5.12, Psalm 1.7), they cannot possibly merit heaven, and as >>purgatory is for the purging of temporal punishment and venial sins, it >>is impossible that origianl sin can be forgiven.... >Why is it fair to punish you, me and the rest of humanity because of >what Adam and Eve did? Suppose your parents committed some crime before >you were born and one day the cops come to your door and throw you in >jail for it. Would you really think that is fair? I know I wouldn't. Well, suppose your mother was a crack addict and crack user/abuser while she was pregnant? Suppose your husband gave you some SDT (this recently happened to a close friend of my wife and mine)? OFTEN, the consequences of our sin are at least partially inflicted on innocent people. Several times in the OT, this is pointed out, even saying that descendants would suffer consequences for a person's sin for several generations. Even today, we see multi-generational (to coin a phrase) effects from alcoholism, child abuse, and spousal abuse just to name three. So, God's definition of fair and ours differ. Some points of perspective: Though the predisposition towards sinning is now inbred (see Webster's first definition of inbred) thanks to Adam, it is arrogant and foolish for any of us to think we would have done any different if we were in their shoes. I know myself pretty well, and I'm just not that good. Take God's word for it, neither are you. ""There is no one righteous..."" More important, when a person decides to be a disciple of Jesus, God promises supernatural help in overcoming our physical self's sinful tendency. We can, of course, choose to ignore this help. (Rom 7,8) ""...God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes."" -Eccl Mark -- Mark Wuest | *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!! mdw@violin.hr.att.com (Sun Mailtool Ok) | mdw@trumpet.hr.att.com (NeXT Mail) | ",15 "Re: TeleUse, UIM/X, and C++ In article <1993Apr1.213842.6086@ctp.com>, hubec@ctp.com (Hubert Chou) writes: |> Does anyone have any good ideas on how to integrate C++ code elegantly |> with TeleUse, UIM/X / Interface Architect generated code? |> |> Source would be great, but any suggestions are welcome. |> |> |> Hubie Chou |> (617) 374-8454 |> hubec@ctp.com |> I don't know a great deal about the support for C++ in UIM/X, but I can tell you that there is good support for it in TeleUSE. In TeleUSE you can call any C++ method from a ""D"" module. What you can do then is to use the ""D"" language for most of your interface code and then use C++ for you application code. I should tell you that there is some real neat stuff coming out of TeleUSE soon in regard to C++, but I can't give you many details. You should talk to your local sales rep and get the lowdown on what they will be doing in the near furture. If you want example code of how C++ integrates with TeleUSE you should look at $TeleUSE/examples/Thermometer -- +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Steve Vranyes | |Voice : (708) 576 - 0338 | |E-mail : stevevr@ecs.comm.mot.com | |U.S.Post : Motorola Inc. | | 1301 E. Algonquin Rd. | | Schaumburg, IL 60196 | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",5 "Re: Opel owners? matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes: >By the way, what do people think about the Opel CAlibra? I want one, and I don't want to move to Europe to buy one. Please make it the next Pontiac F-Car. Of course I'll have to wait 'till 2003 to buy it... -- Chintan Amin mail: llama@uiuc.edu *******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA******** ",7 "WANTED : Scott Leatham @ Microsoft Hello there! A few days ago I got a mail concerning bitmap-stretching from SCOTT LEATHAM @ Microsoft Redmond WA, USA. I really would like to answer back to him, but I have lost his email-address. So if Scott or anybody that knows his email-address reads this, please mail me his address so I can answer his mail. Please mail to : d91tm@efd.lth.se Thanks /Tomas ",1 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1qvk8sINN9vo@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes: >I'm short of patience tonite, but rabid dogs deserve and get better treatment >than the BDs got. Although I'm an atheist, the events in Waco have really sickened me. It's truely a sad day for religious freedom in this country. The Branch Dividians may have been nutty (my general opinion of all religious people), but tax evasion and illegal possesion of firearms are certainly not grounds for destroying a people. The killing of the four BATF agents was surey a dispicable act, but that was an escalation of the confrontation which the BATF started. War is bad precisely because of humanity's tendancy for escalation. That principle applies to all cases of warfare- whether it's between nuclear superpowers, feuding families or fledgling religious groups and our federal govt. Why was warfare chosen as the course of action when patience and subtlety would also have worked? Why is the petty letter of the law more important than peoples' lives and religious beliefs? Perhaps the supposed professionals in our federal law inforcement agencies are just plain stupid. It was interesting to watch the 700 club today. Pat Robertson said that the ""Branch Dividians had met the firey end for worshipping their false god."" He also said that this was a terrible tragedy and that the FBI really blew it. However, I still feel that he's forgetting that every major religion in the world had a similarly humble 'cult-status' beginning- even, and perhaps especially, christianity. It is perhaps worthwhile to consider that the Branch Dividians' apocalyptic prophecies have been fulfilled. Maybe David Koresh really was Jesus Christ (sure sounds like a neat opening epic for a new major religion to me). -- /* jhallen@world.std.com (192.74.137.5) */ /* Joseph H. Allen */ int a[1817];main(z,p,q,r){for(p=80;q+p-80;p-=2*a[p])for(z=9;z--;)q=3&(r=time(0) +r*57)/7,q=q?q-1?q-2?1-p%79?-1:0:p%79-77?1:0:p<1659?79:0:p>158?-79:0,q?!a[p+q*2 ]?a[p+=a[p+=q]=q]=q:0:0;for(;q++-1817;)printf(q%79?""%c"":""%c\n"","" #""[!a[q-1]]);} ",18 "Re: New Apple Ergo-Mouse I believe that in order to get at the innards of the new mouse, you must remove the label on the bottom that says ""Apple Desktop Bus Mouse II"" There you should find two screws on either side. I haven't tried it myself yet, but when I ran my fingernail accross the label, these two divots appeared, and I can only assume that these are the elusive screws in question. cheers, john -- ******John M. Graham*********************** ******The Cleveland Institute of Music***** ******jmg14@po.cwru.edu******************** Brought to you by the letters J, M, and G, and the number 14. ",4 "Starting X windows As soon as I am logged into Linux, I type # xinit Setting TCP SO_LINGER : Protocol not available no SIOCGIFCONF XFree86 Version 1.2/X Window System (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 5000) configured drivers: VGA256(256 colout SVGA): et4000, et 3000, PVGA1, gvga, ati, tvga8900c, tgva9000 (using VT number 7) Mouse : type : Mouse Systems, device : /dev/mouse, baudrate:1200 Font Path set to ""usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/75 dpi/, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/Bitstream1/, /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc. VGA 256 : et4000 ( mem : OK numclocks : 16 ) VGA 256 : Clocks : 25.2 28.3 47.8 41.2 25.4 0.0 47.6 0.0 VGA 256 : Clocks : 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 41.3 Vga 256 : Too little memory for virtual resolution 1024 1204 *** A configured device found, but display modes could not be resolved. *** Fatal server error: no screens found giving up. xinit : Interrupted system call(errno 4) : Unable to connect to X server xinit : No such process(errno 3) : Server error. =========================================================================== Why am I getting these messages when I type in xinit? Is there a configuration file for X-Windows(like config.sys for MSDOS)? How do I start the X session( from shell )? ______________________________________________________ Subbarao Chitturi schit@ctp.com ",5 "1982 Yamaha XJ550H Maxim for sale (Denver area) (message posted by/for roomate) Bike is in good condition, is black, has 23000 miles, mag wheels, front disk, rear drum, good front tire, new back tire, o-ring chain, new battery, new starter and has that laid back look. Bike runs real strong with all four carbs giving their best. Buyer gets a cover (all weather, lockable & heatproof), tank bag (non-magnetic - can't take disks along otherwise!), cargo net & manual. Bike has origional tool kit & matching Yamaha lock. Asking $1700 or Best Offer. I would like to sell this soon, so please CALL (voice!)(ack!) with any questions! John Silvia in (303) area - (home) 238-8281 (work) 296-7744 ",8 "Re: NHL team in Milwaukee Well put, Jason. I am not from Wisconsin, but I have close relatives who live in Port Washington (about 30 minutes north of Milwaukee), I visit the city regularly, and I have been in the Bradley four times to see the Admirals play and the NCAA Hockey Championships. It is a beautiful building. The Pettits and the city like to promote it as the best facility for hockey in North America. As to what will happen with the Admirals if Milwaukee does acquire a franchise, word is the team will move to Green Bay and play in the Brown County Arena. Once again, the Admirals are an independent franchise, and the people of Milwaukee have been supporting them well. The games I have been to have seen crowds anywhere from 10,000 to 13,000, which are numbers some NHL teams (i.e. the Islanders, Hartford, New Jersey) would be envious of having on some nights. Plus the fact that the city is able to support a minor league franchise without the glamour of having an NHL club affiliated to it is testimony to the amount of hockey interest exists in the city. Sincerely, Martin Hill, Rt. 2, Box 155B, Sault Ste. Marie, MI (Home of LSSU: Go Lakers!) P.S. Anybody know what the attendance figures are for the IHL and how Milwaukee stacks up against other IHL cities such as Atlanta, Phoenix, San Diego, Cleveland, and Cincinnati? If so, please reply. ",10 "Re: Centris 610 Video Problem - I'm having it also! In article <1qqf6b$oc6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bm967@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Kantrowitz) writes: > >From: push@media.mit.edu (Pushpinder Singh) >Subject: re: Centris 610 Video Problem - I'm having it also! >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 03:17:45 GMT > >> When the computer is set for 256 colors and certain operations are done, >> particularly vertical scrolling through a window, horizontal white lines >> appear on the monitor (which generally but not always spare open >> windows). These lines accummulate as the operation is continued. If a >> window is moved over the involved area of the screen and then moved away >> the line disappear from that area of the screen. This problem is not >> observed if the monitor is configured for 16 colors or a 14 inch Apple >> monitor with 256 colors is used. >> >> I suspect a bad video RAM chip but cannot be certain. The problem has >> been apparent since day 1 but has gotten worse. > >etc. > >Has anyone NOT had these problems in the given configurations? >(that would help eliminate design flaw as the explanation) As a data point, I'm using a Centris 610 4/80 with the Apple 16"" monitor and do NOT have these problems. DCH ",4 "Re: Boom! Dog attack! In article <9426.97.uupcb@compdyn.questor.org> ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) writes: > >Interestingly, the one thing that never happened was that the bike never >moved off course. Unfortunately, I am one of the ""negative-impaired"". The above sentence says (I believe), that the bike DID move off course. Of course. ;-) Michael -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael Nelson 1993 CBR900RR | | Internet: nelson@seahunt.imat.com Dod #0735 | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ",8 "Re: Where are they now? In article <1qi156INNf9n@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, tcbruno@athena.mit.edu (Tom Bruno) writes: > > Wow. Leave your terminal for a few months and everyone you remember goes > away-- how depressing. Actually, there are a few familiar faces out there, > counting Bob and Kent, but I don't seem to recognize anyone else. Has anyone > heard from Graham Matthews recently, or has he gotten his degree and sailed > for Greener Pastures (tm)? > > Which brings me to the point of my posting. How many people out there have > been around alt.atheism since 1990? I've done my damnedest to stay on top of > the newsgroup, but when you fall behind, you REALLY fall behind (it's still not > as bad as rec.arts.startrek used to be, but I digress). Has anyone tried to > keep up with the deluge? Inquiring minds want to know! Also-- does anyone > keep track of where the more infamous posters to alt.atheism end up, once they > leave the newsgroup? Just curious, I guess. > > cheers, > tom bruno I am one of those people who always willl have unlimited stores of unfounded respect for people who have been on newsgroups/mailing lists longer than I have, so you certainly have my sympathy Tom. I have only been semi-regularly posting (it is TOUGHto keep up) since this February, but I have been reading and following the threads since last August: my school's newsreader was down for months and our incompetent computing services never bothered to find a new feed site, so it wasn't accepting outgoing postings. I don't think anyone keeps track of where other posters go: it's that old love 'em and leave 'em Internet for you again... best regards, ******************************************************************************** * Adam John Cooper ""Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings * * who thought themselves good simply because * * acooper@macalstr.edu they had no claws."" * ******************************************************************************** ",0 "X11R5 support for 386i GX?? Does X11R5 support the graphics accelerator board in the Sun 386i???? Thanks in advance. Colin. ",5 "Re: solvent for duct-tape adhesive? In article <1993Apr26.235820.10742@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gvolk@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Volk) writes: >What I usually use...and this stuff is only good on glass....is either Acetone, >or a little Benzene. The latter of the two is a bit dangerous (possibly a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ >carcinogen(sp?)) but it usualy gets the job done. I imagine you can you the two ^^^^^^^^ >solvents on most metals as well as glass, but keep the stuff away from plastic. Benzene is most definitely a carcinogen. If you can get your hands on it * Don't use it! * ============================================================================= _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ | _/_/ _/_/ _/ _/_/ _/ | Michael Brown _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ | _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ | csulo@csv.warwick.ac.uk _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ | mjb@dcs.warwick.ac.uk | ============================================================================= Lost interest ?? It's so bad I've lost apathy! ============================================================================= ",12 "FOR SALE I am selling my Sportster to make room for a new FLHTCU. This scoot is in excellent condition and has never been wrecked or abused. Always garaged. 1990 Sportster 883 Standard (blue) factory 1200cc conversion kit less than 8000 miles Branch ported and polished big valve heads Screamin Eagle carb Screamin Eagle cam adjustable pushrods Harley performance mufflers tachometer new Metzeler tires front and rear Progressive front fork springs Harley King and Queen seat and sissy bar everything chromed O-ring chain fork brace oil cooler and thermostat new Die-Hard battery bike cover price: $7000.00 phone: hm 407/254-1398 wk 407/724-7137 Melbourne, Florida ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: #In article <1qjahh$mrs@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #>In article pww@spacsun.rice.edu ( #>#> Objective morality is morality built from objective values. #># #>#But where do those objective values come from? How can we measure them? #>#What mediated thair interaction with the real world, a moralon? Or a scalar #>#valuino field? #> #>Science (""the real world"") has its basis in values, not the other way round, #>as you would wish it. If there is no such thing as objective value, then #>science can not objectively be said to be more useful than a kick in the head. #>Simple theories with accurate predictions could not objectively be said #>to be more useful than a set of tarot cards. You like those conclusions? #>I don't. # # These are non sequitar. If there is no objective value, nothing can be objectively valued. ""useful"" is a value judgement, and ""science"" is something which can be valued. It sequits fine :-) -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card briand@anasazi.com (Brian Douglass) writes: >aguilar@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (christopher j aguilar) writes: >>In article briand@anasazi.com (Brian Douglass) writes: >>>If after Billions of dollars we can't keep Crack Cocaine out of the hands >>>of dealers and other criminals, how do you propose to keep guns out of >>>their hands? >>> >>>Brian Douglass briand@anasazi.com >>> 602-870-3330 X657 >>It's the billions of dollars we keep flooding into the so called ""War on drugs"" >>that keeps the cocaine in the hands of the dealers. If it weren't profitable >>they wouldn't be in that business. Our tax dollars keep those guys in business >>by capturing 0.1% of the illegal drugs, thus driving the price up 100%. Take >>away the profitability of their business and, as a matter of economics, they >>won't be in it anymore. >If you are arguing for the legalized control of drugs, come out and say it. >You might be surprised at who supports this ""pragmatic"" approach to drug >prohibition. >My point was that since government interdiction has had apprecable affect on ^ Oops! I mean NO apprecable affect----------------------| >reducing drug availability, how can any thoughtful person believe that >prohibiting guns will keep them out of the hands of criminals? >>-- >> Christopher Aguilar Yo camino por la vida, >> aguilar@cs.arizona.edu Muy feliz con mi pobresa >> aguilar@life.arizona.edu Como no tengo dinero, >> aguilar@gas.uug.arizona.edu Tengo mucho corazon. >-- >Brian Douglass briand@anasazi.com > 602-870-3330 X657 -- Brian Douglass briand@anasazi.com 602-870-3330 X657 ",16 "More on Center for Anti-Irsael Rhetoric Dear Mr. Davidsson, You claim that your purpose is to fight racism. But you don't seem to have any interest in injustice except that which may have been committed by Israel. The treatment of Jews in Arab nations, an injustice of staggerring proportions, is an injustice that you do not seem to care the least bit about. Why not? ",17 "Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???) A point of interest - in ""hacking"" a mechanical speed/odometer, not all drills will work! Just a guess, but I think you'd have to drive it counter-clockwise, which would require a reversible drill. ",12 "Re: CD's for Sale im interseted in buing some of those....I am a student at R.I.T. please reply saying how to contact you.....Ed ",6 "What's in a name?: the sequel I've been thinking about the idea that was raised (by Michael Covington, I think) that words mean what we think they mean, regardless of etymology. I've been reflecting on what certain words meant in my childhood and tracing how this shaped some of my attitudes. I grew up in a home where Christ was a bad word. People who were very angry said it. The word Christian meant someone who was not a Jew. It carried connotations of otherness, of threat, of enemy. It took some time to figure out that there was a connection between `Christ' and `Christian'. When I accepted Jesus, I expected to be disowned. To become a Christian meant to join the enemy. I knew others would consider me a traitor. At some level, I agreed, but was still prepared to pay this price. Like Esau, I sold my birthright. However, I made a better bargain. He only got some stew, but I got the incomparable riches of knowing Christ. As it turned out, my parents did not disown me. I found out later that they were hoping it was a phase that I would grow out of. By the time they had decided it wasn't a phase, they were sort of used to it. They didn't disown me but they didn't completely accept the situation either. For example, they didn't come to my wedding because it was in a church. When I visited my grandmother in the hospital a few days before her death, she said to me, ""As far as I'm concerned, you still are a Jew."" What she meant was that she loved me and forgave me. But I am not a Jew. I am a Christian. (I'll concede, one that likes chicken soup with matzoh balls.:-)) I do not keep kosher. I do not celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday. My sons are not circumcised. But these things are true of some people who do consider themselves Jews. It is not these rules that make people Jews; it is the heritage from the past. I gave up the past. This is why I find it hard to relate to Messianic Jews. Their experience is unlike mine. They still consider themselves Jews while following Jesus. Some would even say that I *must* do so, too. I am at a stage of my life now where I would like to have a heritage. It was not something I valued very much when I gave it. But I did have a sense that I was giving it for God. It may have been a small sacrifice. It may have been an unnecessary sacrifice. But I gave it and do not want to ask for it back. And while I don't have the heritage I was born with, I do have another. I am an outcast from the house of Israel, but I am a member of the Church. One of the things I like about being a Catholic Christian is that it is rich in tradition. It gives me a feeling of, once again, being rooted in the past. This is probably one of the reasons why I don't like it when people mess around with Christian traditions (for example, changing the name of Easter). These traditions fill an important emotional need of mine. I suppose the point of all this is that people shouldn't assume that all believers of Jewish background are the same. For some `Jewish Christian' is a good name, for others it is an oxymoron. Jayne Kulikauskas/jayen@mmalt.guild.org ",15 "Re: Eugenics Thanks to Tarl Neustaedter of MA for kindly letting me know that my reference in prior post to Orwell and ""1984"" should probably have been to Huxley and ""Brave New World."" Sorry, Al. Bob (ruegg@med.unc.edu) ",13 "Re: SHARKS: Kingston Fired!!! nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes: >And Cherbayev was initially supposed to play for the Russian WC Team. (Anybody >know what happened there?) Yeah, they finally came to agreement on a contract. As soon as the ink was dry, he suddenly decided Kansas City was a neat place to be. (ergo, the ""want to play for the national team"" was a bargaining chip). -- Chuq ""IMHO"" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= chuq@apple.com Member, SFWA =+= Editor, OtherRealms =+= GEnie: MAC.BIGOT =+= ALink:CHUQ Minor League fans: minors-request@medraut.apple.com (San Jose Giants: A/1/9) San Francisco Giants fans: giants-request@medraut.apple.com (The Stick?NOT!) San Jose Sharks fans: sharks-request@medraut.apple.com (New seat: 127/TBD) ",10 "Last of the V-8 Interceptors Does anyone know what kind of car Mad Max used in ""Road Warrior""? They called it ""the last of the V-8 Interceptors..."" I couldnt tell what it was, it was so chopped up. thanks ",7 "?? Need Device- NTSC Video- SCSI Bus Has anyone heard of a SCSI device that can capture video? We need some sort of device that can capture about 10 frames or so per second, and work off the SCSI bus. The idea is to use it for some sort of video conferencing application. _______________________________________________________________________ ""If I told you all that went down, it would burn off both your ears..."" _______________________________________________________________________ These thoughts are only my own. CHBeck@anl.gov ",4 "Re: Mysterious beeping In article , defaria@cup.hp.com (Andy DeFaria) writes: |> [ Article crossposted from hp.windows ] |> [ Author was Andy DeFaria ] |> [ Posted on Mon, 19 Apr 1993 18:08:38 GMT ] |> |> For some reason the following code causes my X application to beep whenever I |> intercept a keystroke and change it's meaning. The intent of this code it to |> allow ""date"" fields the following special keys: |> |> [Tt]: Insert today's date |> [+=]: Bump day up by one |> [-_]: Bump day down by one |> |> I hardcoded some dates for this example. Perhaps I shouldn't be using an |> XmText field for this. |> |> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// |> // |> // For some reason the following code beeps whenever any of the special keys |> // of [Tt+=-_] are hit. Why? The idea of this code is to interpret these |> // keys having the special meaning implied by the code. I would like to get |> // rid of the beeping but, as far as I can tell, I'm not doing the beep and |> // am at a lose as to understanding who and why the beeping is occuring. |> // |> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// code deleted... >From the XmTextField man page (during discussion of resources): XmNverifyBell Specifies whether a bell will sound when an action is reversed during a verification callback. You are setting doit to false in the callback, and Text[Field] is beeping as it should. To turn off this behavior, set this boolean resource to false. Tom McFarland ",5 "Re: space news from Feb 15 AW&ST In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: |> [Pluto's] atmosphere will start to freeze out around 2010, and after about |> 2005 increasing areas of both Pluto and Charon will be in permanent |> shadow that will make imaging and geochemical mapping impossible. Where does the shadow come from? There's nothing close enough to block sunlight from hitting them. I wouldn't expect there to be anything block our view of them either. What am I missing? Jim ",14 "Re: Z Magazine: Health Care Reform (March 93) {Sorry, Harel et al, but our doctors and most hospitals are still private in Canada as well as in much of Western Europe.} harelb@math.cornell.edu (Harel Barzilai - Grad - Brown) writes: > =================================== > H e a l t h C a r e R e f o r m > By Camille Colatosti > Z magazine (see bottom), March 1993 > =================================== >... >The single-payer model, sometimes called national health insurance, >eliminates private insurance companies and removes health care from >employment. The government provides free health care to all U.S. >residents. And there are no out-of-pocket costs. Wrong. In better EC countries that use pure (but public) health insurance (like we use in Canada) rather than self-enclosed HMO-like socialized medicine, 30% of our costs comes from private supplementary insurance and/or copayments. France Magazine's Summer 1992 edition has a fantastic presentation of their basic insurance coverage, including a sample chart of copayment percentages. For 1-30 days, you're covered for 80% of the public hospital rate, 100% afterward. With extra private insurance, you can get into a private hospital and be covered for any differences beyond the public hospital rate. The public insurance covers 100% beyond 30 days, or the same cash amount for a private hospital and the difference is paid out-of-pocket or according to your supplementary private insurance. Over 2/3rds of French have some form of extra private insurance. So, 30% of health costs in Europe are out of private funds and not gleaned from other taxes. The GDP figures are combined public and private expenditures for total outlay using the same methods that yield the 13-14% figure for the U.S. That the French had deductibles and copayments in their insurance fund is to their credit ... I am in the minority for advocating such back in Canada (to make the Canadian insurance look more like real health insurance -- which actually it is). The new Reform Party, a breakoff of traditionalists from the Conservatives with a mildly ""libertarian"" faction, hold our public health insurance as an untouchable but that just a few people have to be reminded that it's not free (the average Canadian/European is more fiscally naive than their American counterparts on issues like these). I'm one of the few people who favour copayments (forget about leftists, even our conservatives attack me for it on the Canadian newsgroups) to make it look more like real insurance, 'cos the 100% insurance payment is hidden (unlike in France) and if you didn't know it, you'd believe it actually is socialized medicine (American conservatives/libertarians and Canadian leftists are the only ones who seriously call it that). Canadians aren't worried about the Americans, who spend 14%; we're worried about the French and Germans who spend 7% to our 9% ... so the insurance is looking at things that shouldn't be paid for out of general funds like physicals for insurance policies, sick notes, electrolysis, etc. The reason that the Canadian health insurance hasn't spiralled out of control despite being open and universal is that unlike Americans, there is no urge to spend all of your benefits' worth, and more if you can ... we're a different culture. >Like the play or pay model, managed competition leaves in place two >elements of the current health care system that reformers most often >criticize: the private, for-profit insurance industry; and the >employer-based system of coverage. Managed competition compels >employers to enroll their workers in large pools of health insurance >customers. Entire industries may, for example, sponsor a pool or >network. Insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and other health >care providers then bid for the pool's business, competing- in >theory- on the basis of price and quality. ""Managed Care"" relies on HMO's, which are unknown in most western nations that use only public health insurance like Canada, France and Germany (I'm Canadian, and my German father-in-law-to-be says of HMO/NHS approaches, ""We left that behind with East Germany!""). Sure, HMO/NHS controls costs because you have managers strangling doctors with budget strings. In Canada, we use the public health insurance approach as in France and Germany, with all private doctors and both private and public hospitals. It is all pure insurance without HMO's. The divisions are different, with the Germans using a couple hundred interlinked ""sickness funds"" over a century old while Canada divides by their provinces (who run the insurance fund and set local fees with the doctors monopoly; federal funds cover the fees disbursed.) With such an open-ended system, it's no surprise that Canada is #2 to the U.S. in costs; all-insurance is the most expensive way to go. The French and Germans use the same approach but have larger populations in more compact geography to improve scales of economy. gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",18 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? A CNN factiod in the last few months stated that 40% of all the computers in the U.S. are left on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't recall CNN's source. Leslie Jones ljones@utkvx.utk.edu, who turns off his monitor when he's not using it. ",4 "Re: food-related seizures? Sharon Paulson (paulson@tab00.larc.nasa.gov) wrote: : {much deleted] : : : The fact that this happened while eating two sugar coated cereals made : by Kellog's makes me think she might be having an allergic reaction to : something in the coating or the cereals. Of the four of us in our : immediate family, Kathryn shows the least signs of the hay fever, running : nose, itchy eyes, etc. but we have a lot of allergies in our family history : including some weird food allergies - nuts, mushrooms. : Many of these cereals are corn-based. After your post I looked in the literature and located two articles that implicated corn (contains tryptophan) and seizures. The idea is that corn in the diet might potentiate an already existing or latent seizure disorder, not cause it. Check to see if the two Kellog cereals are corn based. I'd be interested. -- David Ozonoff, MD, MPH |Boston University School of Public Health dozonoff@med-itvax1.bu.edu |80 East Concord St., T3C (617) 638-4620 |Boston, MA 02118 ",13 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? >>Between who? Over what? I would be most interested in seeing you >>provide peer-reviewed non-food-industry-funded citations to articles >>disputing that MSG has no effects whatsoever. > > You mean ""asserting"". You're being intellectually dishonest (or just > plain confused), because you're conflating reports which do not necessarily > have anything to do with each other. Olney's reports would argue a potential > for problems in human infants, but that's not to say that this says anything > whatsoever about the use of MSG in most foods, nor does he provide any > studies in humans which indicate any deleterious effects (for obvious > reasons.) It says nothing about MSG's contribtion to the phenomenon > of the ""Chinese Restaurant Syndrome"". It says nothing about the frequent > inability to replicate anecdotal reports of MSG sensitivity in the lab. Okay Mr. Dyer, we're properly impressed with your philosophical skills and ability to insult people. You're a wonderful speaker and an adept politician. However, I believe that all you were asked to do, was simply provide scientific research refuting the work of Olney. I don't think the original poster sought to start a philisophical debate. she wanted some information. Given a little effort one could justify that shooting oneself with a .45 before breakfast is a healthy practice. But we're not particularily interested in what you can verbally prove/disprove or rationalize. Where's the research? Where are the studies? I appoligize if this sounds flamish. I simply would like to see the thread get back on track. Lone Wolf Happy are they who dream dreams, Ed Philips And pay the price to see them come true. slyx0@cc.usu.edu -unknown ",13 "Re: eye dominance bbenowit@telesciences.com (Barry D Benowitz) writes: >In article rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes: >> Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an >> overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most >> people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the >> other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this? >> Thanks. >Yes, there is such a thing as eye dominance, although I am not sure if >this dominance refers to perscription strength. >As i recall, if you selectively close your dominant eye, you will percieve >that the image shifts. This will not happen if you close your other eye. >I believe that which eye is dominant is related to handedness, but I >can't recall the relation at the moment. >Barry D. Benowitz I read a great book about eye dominance several years ago. So there is one book out there..at least one :). There were several types of eye dominance. Where a person looks in their memory usually indicates a type of eye dominanc Another type is related to coordination activities like hitting a ball. Another for reading. I didn't read one that discussed prescription strength. Although people with bad vision, near or far sighted would tend to depend on the stronger eye. -Jackie- ",13 "3d graphics software company info? Within a few months, I'll be looking for a job in 3d computer graphics software. I'm in need of info on companies that do it. There's nothing in any of the FAQ's for this group, and nothing at siggraph.org (at least I couldn't find anything.) The last Computer Graphics Career Handbook was dated 1991, had info on 40 companies, but nothing specific on any of them. Can people please direct me towards more current and detailed sources of information? I'll post a summary of sources if there's interest. Also, could you please e-mail me, our news server is on the fritz. :( Thanks, Brandon -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 ",1 "Looking for Mr. radon Does anyone have a radon transform in C that they could send me? Any help accepted, -- | .-, ###|For a lot of .au music: ftp sounds.sdsu.edu | / / __ , _ ###|then cat file.au > /dev/audio | \_>/ >_/ (_/\_/<>_ |UB library catalog:telnet bison.acsu.buffalo.edu |_ 14261 _|(When in doubt ask: xarchie, xgopher, or xwais.) ",1 "Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach In article revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes: >Dave Davis (ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com) wrote: > >[lots deleted, with which I generally agree; there is no inherently >defensible argument for the inclusion or exclusion of the Deuterocanonical >books] >: I think everyone would agree that principles that cannot be >: consistently applied are not very useful as principles. >: So, if we are to exclude them (not accord them the authority of >: Scripture) we would appear to require other reasons. What might these >: reasons be? Lets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the standards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we can ask: 1. Is it authoritative? 2. Is it prophetic? 3. Is it authentic? 4. Is it dynamic? 5. Is it received, collected, read and used? On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God. To quote Unger's Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha: 1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and anachronisms. 2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices which are at variance with sacred Scripture. 3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of subject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture. 4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine Scripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and poetic and religious feeling. >: >: My interim conclusion is that Protestant exclusion of >: (at least one of) these writings is one of those 'traditions >: of men' one hears of so often. They were excluded during the >: Reformation, and that appears to be the reason many people >: continue to exclude them. But the problem with this argument lies in the assumption that the Hebrew canon included the Apocrapha in the first place, and it wasn't until the sixteenth century that Luther and co. threw them out. The Jewish council you mentioned previously didn't accept them, so the reformation protestants had good historical precedence for their actions. Jerome only translated the apocrapha under protest, and it was literally 'over his dead body' that it was included in the catholic canon. >The simple fact is that Protestant exclusion, Roman inclusion, Orthodox >inclusion of still other books, or any other definition of a closed canon >is the decision of a community of faith about what the standard collection >of scripture shall be for that community. They _all_ are ""traditions of >men."" Whether one considers that to be a problem or not depends on which >community happens to be yours, and how you accept/ define authority within >it. I personally believe that the concept of a closed canon, whether >Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox is one that developed rather late in the >history of the church, and which has not served the church well. How do you then view the words: ""I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city"" (Rev 22.18-9) Surely this sets the standard and not just man-made traditions. It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John 10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51 taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture. >See Dr. Lee MacDonald's _The Formation of the Christian Biblical Canon_ >(Abingdon, 1988) for a clear and faithful examination of the origins and >issues of the canon. I am not familiar with the book. Some other arguments you might like to consider are found in Chapter 3 of Josh McDowell's Evidence That Demands A Verdict. Barney Resson ""Many shall run to and fro, & knowledge shall increase"" (Daniel) ",15 "Hamas methods of Murder If anyone gets the New York Times, the Edit page has a transcript of a VHS from Hams describing their methods of torture and execution. I will post it later on. ",17 "Re: Bonds vs. Maddux In article , loos@cup.hp.com (Joe Loos) writes: >I've been following the Giants closely over the off-season -- newspapers, >notesgroup, etc -- but I had my first up close and personal last night at >the Stick. > >After watching Giants hitters struggle last year, Barry's swing was >very impressive -- he's very quick and his swing seems effortless, even >compared to Clark (particularly Clark as of late). > >It was interesting to see Bonds hit Maddux so well. I'm not sure if >Barry was after revenge against the Braves or what but he stroked >three very pretty hits (1b, 2b, hr) for 5 rbi's. The Giants always hit Maddux well, but it was interesting that Maddux did not pitch around Bonds to get to Clayton last night. He threw 2 straight fastballs over the plate to Bonds in the 1st last night, got away with the first one, but Bonds hit the second one out of the park. Then in the 3rd, when Clark was at third base with one out, Maddux did not intentionally walk Bonds, and Bonds dropped a single to left-center. > >The Giants as a team are doing a lot of surprising things this year in >addition to Bonds. There has been some good pitching and some hitters >seem to be swinging much better. Clayton's defense has been superb. >McGee seems to like leading off this year. Manwaring is driving the ball. >So on & so forth. > The Braves announcers pointed out that McGee as a leadoff hitter has not scored a run yet. He will always hit around .300, but I'm concerning about his on-base percentage. The key in the lineup is Matt Williams, he has to stay hot so that Bonds can hit with runners on base. >I hope it continues...I think they need to continue well into June before >people are really sold that they are for real--particularly the pitching. The pitching gets a set back as Bud Black is placed on the DL. Burba has done a superb job filling in so far, he looks like a different pitcher from last year. However, Swift is terrible in both of his starts. With Burba moving into the rotation, Mike Jackson is the only right-handed reliever aside from Rod Beck, he'll get a lot of actions. I also hope that Dusty can manage his bullpen better than Roger Craig, especially on Beck. I was concerned when Beck was used for 3 straight days earlier this week. >For myself, I think the fresh start of Magowan/Baker/etc has really wiped >out a lot of negatives from the last few years and will be a real factor >in helping them significantly improve over last year. So far so good! Edward Hui ",9 "Re: Bill 'Blame America First' Clinton Strikes Again. In article <12741@news.duke.edu> eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK) writes: > >This argument sounds very stupid.. if the ability to make guns from > >""simple metalworking"" was easy, then Drug dealers would make their own > >wouldn't they???.. They do. According the the Los Angeles Police Department, illegal manufacture is one the three primary sources of machine guns and submachine guns used in crimes (sumggling and theft from the police and military being the other two.) Washington D.C. police have stated that 40% (If I'm remembering the figure correctly) of the guns they conficate were illegally built. > >...why spend hundreds of dollars buying a gun that > >somebody else made cheap and is selling it to you at an > >exorbitant markup???... It takes about 6 hours and a few tools to make one (at least one of reasonable quality). Unless the drug dealer enjoyes messing around on a lathe (say, as a hobby), he's going to have to pay someone anyway. Materials plus six hours of a machinist's time for something legal would run about $100. The blackmarket prices for guns are usually in the $50 to $200 range (at least those few I've seen cited in newspaper articles were...) > >...The simple truth of the matter is, that regardless > >of how easy it is to make guns, banning guns will reduce the > >the number of new guns and seriuosly impede the efforts of a > >killer intent on buying a weapon.... Washington D.C. has a total ban on handguns and prohibits assembled rifles within city limits. It's homicide rate is almost ten times the national average. It is also illegal for a D.C. resident to drive to the Virginia or Maryland suburbs and buy a gun (dealers are required by federal law to check IDs and make sure the buyer isn't from another state) so the ban can not be easily side-stepped. > >To show why the tools argument is the silliest i have ever seen.. take an > >analogy from computer science... almost every computer science major > >can write a ""wordprocessor"" yet we(comp sci majors) would willingly pay 3 > >to 400 bucks for a professional software like wordperfect... why don't we > >just all write our own software???...... Because it is highly > >inconvinient!!!.. Sure. But it you couldn't buy one, you would write your own (in fact, people _did_ write their own 15 years ago...) More likely, you would find a friend who was a particularly good programer and get him give you a copy of his. Software is a _very_ bad example for your case: How many people do you know with illegal copies of $400 word processors? If people want something, and it isn't available (or affordable) legally, they will usually get it illegally. > >Same with guns... Quite. > >secondly.. how does one get this gunpowder for the > >""home made gun"" ??? 13-3-2. The formula has been around for half a million years. Or are you going to restrict sales of sulpher, charcoal and saltpeter? That's alot cruder than modern smokless powder, but it works very well. The only real problems are a ~25% reduction in energy (so a .357 magnum would ""only"" be as deadly as a 9mm) and it makes alot more smoke... Of course, a smart black marketeer could just make the gun in 9mm and steal the ammunition from the police (the police are often corruptable, and things are known to disappear from police evidence rooms and armories and reappear on the streets...) > > If guns were really that simple to make... the Bosnian muslims would > >be very happy people (or is it the case that metalworking tools are > >banned in bosnia??? (deep sarcasm) ). Perhaps you weren't watching the news two years ago, but the Serbs also tried to invade Slovinia. They were driven out after a few weeks by partisans armed with home-made _anti-tank_ weapons. The Afghan rebels frequently made their own rifles. Frank Crary CU Boulder ",16 "Re: Windows zip/unzip pwb@aerg.canberra.edu.au (Paul Blackman) writes: >In article <1rl9b6$h3c@sol.deakin.OZ.AU> russ@deakin.OZ.AU (Russ Sharp) writes: >>We are using pkzip V2.04 and I am interested to hear from >>people who have used one of the many Windows programs that >>call these. >> >>Which ones are available and does any one stand out amongst >>the rest? >> >>Is there a full windows version that does not call the DOS >>PKZIP/PKUNZIP commands? >Yes Russ, there is. >QuinZip is a Windows version but I don't think it handles >all the functions available in the DOS version. The problem is that QuinZip is very very slow. So I think that WinZip 4.0 is still the best choice to use pkzip in Windows! Denis Simard, Montreal (simardde@ere.umontreal.ca) ",2 "Re: Portland earthquake Austin C Archer (archau@saturn.wwc.edu) wrote: > >I am interested in views about the non-event of May 3. Seriously, how can a >Christian discriminate between ""messages from God"" which are to be taken >seriously, and those which are spurious? Is there a useful heuristic which >would help us avoid embracing messages which, by their non-fulfillment are >proven to be false, thus causing the name of Christ to be placed in >disrepute? Is this a problem at all? It is possible that the individual saw a true prophetic vision, but that he interpreted the scale of time and space according to his material con- sciousness, translating the supersensible perceptions of a plane above that of time and space into an immediate worldly context -- and getting it wrong. Not that he did it rationally, but rather that unconsciously the perceptions became clothed in material images, instead of remaining in the realm of the potential and not-yet-time-space-bound. This difficulty of translating prophetic vision into a concrete when and where has always been difficult, even for the prophets of old. That is why their prophecies are so often subject to multiple interpretations. Likewise, the Apostles seemed to feel that the return of the Lord was to be ""very soon"" in the sense of perhaps the same generation. Yet the meaning of ""very soon"" has proven to be different than they could grasp. Prophetic vision tends to telescope time, so that things that are far off appear to be very close. Another possibility is that the vision was one of a real event preparing to happen, again in the realm of the potential-but-not-yet-manifest and which was thwarted by other forces, including possibly an act of divine mercy. There are many concrete prophecies being made these days by devout and sincere and sober Christians (and others too). It seems that great coming events are really casting their shadow before their arrival in these ""apocalyptic"" times. The various predictions (I'm talking about those that appear to be sincere and sober) are hard to accept, yet hard to ignore com- pletely. One has the feeling ""something is about to start to get ready to begin to commence to happen"". We are living, as the Chinese saying goes, in interesting times. As for how to discriminate, the Bible doesn't help much. There is an Old Testament passage (I forget where it is) that says you will know whether a prophet is true by whether or not his prophecy comes to pass. That helps eliminate the failures after the fact, but in the case of an earth- quake it is small comfort. It seems to me that all prophecies that give specific times and places and events should be suspect, not in that they are necessarily false, but in the sense stated above, that all such visions are subject to mistranslation from the plane of prophetic vision to the plane of earthly time and space. For what it is worth, Rudolf Steiner once was asked whether a modern initiate could see into the future and predict coming events. His answer was that it would be possible but then he would have to withdraw from active parti- cipation in them, including proclaiming what he saw. If this is in fact a spiritual law, then the answer to your question about how to discriminate is that the one who makes such prophecies is probably violating that law, knowingly or unknowingly, and as such his message should be considered a priori to be dubious. I.e. I would expect that those capable of making true predictions and giving accurate expression to them would not do so in the way that the prophet of the Oregon earthquake did. However, I can sympathize with the person who published the prophecy. Given the same overwhelming experience that he apparently had, I too might feel impelled, and even commissioned by God to tell my fellow human beings about what I had seen. Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com) [Do any of our church historian readers know whether there's any more prophecy now than there has been in the past? I don't get that impression. --clh] ",15 "TEAM POOL - Standings Standings reflecting 2 completed series in Round 1: Participant Points Final 4 1. roland_behunin 5 CAL-6 QUE-7 QUE-7 Dave_Wessels 5 VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5 3. Barfly 0 TOR-6 BOS-7 TOR-6 Dean's 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-7 Oz 0 LAK-6 BOS-6 LAK-6 Garry 0 TOR-6 BOS-6 BOS-4 Brian_Bergman 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6 Mopar_Muscle_Men 0 CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5 BH's_Last_Place_Picks 0 CHI-5 PIT-6 PIT-5 Milton_Keynes_Kings 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 Sam_&_His_Dogs 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 Ye_Ding 0 DET-6 PIT-5 PIT-6 Tampere_Stars 0 CHI-6 PIT-6 PIT-6 The_Mighty_Hedgehogs_Of_Myllyp 0 CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-6 Homesick_Hawaiian 0 VAN-7 PIT-6 PIT-5 Killer_Kings 0 CHI-6 WAS-6 CHI-6 Puggy_Greybeards 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5 Ottawa_Bearcats 0 TOR-5 PIT-6 TOR-6 Andrew_Kirk 0 TOR-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 Muller_n_Walker 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6 Excalibur 0 DET-6 PIT-4 PIT-6 Rednecks_from_Hockey_Hell 0 DET-7 BOS-5 BOS-5 The_@$%@#$%_Rangers_of_1940 0 CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-6 Jeff_Phelps 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 Arctic_Circles 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-4 Sludge 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-6 The_Logistician 0 DET-6 PIT-6 DET-7 Hillside_Raiders 0 CHI-6 BOS-6 BOS-7 Danielle 0 CHI-5 QUE-7 QUE-7 Stanias_Stars 0 CHI-6 BOS-7 BOS-6 BloodHook 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-5 Gilles_Carmel 0 CHI-6 PIT-7 PIT-7 Pasi_Fr{nti 0 LAK-7 PIT-5 PIT-6 Evan_Pritchard 0 VAN-6 PIT-6 PIT-5 Skriko_Wolves 0 DET-7 PIT-5 PIT-5 Rangers_Blow 0 CAL-7 PIT-6 PIT-4 Sean 0 DET-5 PIT-5 PIT-6 Schott_Shooters 0 CHI-6 PIT-5 PIT-5 Gary_Shiff 0 TOR-4 PIT-6 PIT-4 Mike_Burger 0 DET-7 PIT-6 DET-7 Darse 0 DET-6 PIT-6 PIT-6 ******************************************************************************* * Mike Burger * My Canada includes, Quebec, Ontario, * * mmb@lamar.colostate.edu * the Maritimes, the Prairies, and Florida * * A Beginning Computing TA Stud * four months a year. * * over 500 students served * --Royal Canadian Air Farce * ******************************************************************************* * University of Michigan - 1990 -- Colorado State University - 199? * ******************************************************************************* ",10 "Tel.# for 3D scanners needed! Hello all, I need to make some torso 3D scans and would like the phone numbers of companies in the midwest that make scans, and the numbers of companies that make the sanners (ie Cyberware). Does anyone have an idea of how much a single scan costs and the best format to save it in? I am not sure on what software platform I will be using it in, probably either Softimage or Wavefront. So I think a spline based format would be best. Please forward the numbers to me personally as I am having problems accessing USENET lately. Thanks in advance! Patrick Maun r5321gab@awiuni11.edvz.univie.ac.at St. Paul MN ",1 "feverfew for migraines I heard a short blurb on the news yesterday about an herb called feverfew (?) that some say is good for preventing migraines. I think the news said there were two double-blind studies that found this effective. Does anyone know about these studies? Or have experience with feverfew? I'm skeptical, but open to trying it if I can find out more about this. What is feverfew, and how much would you take to prevent migraines (if this is a good idea, that is)? Are there any known risks or side effects of feverfew? Thanks in advance for any info! Brenda ",13 "Re: Riddle me this... In article dhartung@chinet.chi.il.us (Dan Hartung) writes: :gt6511a@prism.gatech.EDU (COCHRANE,JAMES SHAPLEIGH) writes: :>On the subject of CS/CN/tear gas: when I received my initial introduction to : :You couldn't find a window after six hours? : :-- : Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract Have you ever been violently sick repeatedly? I have, and it was difficult to drag myself back to my bed, much less move through a building full of smoke and debris, especially when most likely already disoriented from lack of sleep and constant psychological abuse... Throw in the fact that the 'safety' outside consists of people who have shot at me and thrown grenades at me, and are currently knocking my house down with tanks, I could understand if the BD's were inclined to stay put in the center of the building... -- ******************************************************************************** James S. Cochrane * When in danger, or in doubt, run in * This space gt6511a@prism.gatech.edu * circles, scream and shout. * for rent ******************************************************************************** ",16 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article <1r21t1$4mc@access.digex.net> steve-b@access.digex.com (Steve Brinich) writes: < < > I wonder if she landed such a fat fee from cooperation with the NSA in < >the design and propoganda stages that she doesn't care any more? < < Which is to say: is the NSA -totally- perfidious, or does it at least Of course they take care of their own ... very well ... until the person has 'outlived his/her/undefined usefulness'... then 'elimination' becomes a consideration... :-) -- pat@rwing.uucp [Without prejudice UCC 1-207] (Pat Myrto) Seattle, WA If all else fails, try: ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!pat WISDOM: ""Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."" - Albert Einstien ",11 "Re: Protection of serial (RS232) lines laird@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird) writes: >There is at least one optically-isolated RS-232 transceiver chip. I >don't remember where I saw it. RS Components (they exist in Australia and the UK. Don't know about the US) have little chips called Isolated MAX 250 and 251. They give you isolated RS-232 from a single 5V supply. External components are 4 caps, 4 optoisolators, a diode, and an isloting transformer. They go up to 19.2K baud.. John West -- For the humour impaired: Insert a :-) after every third word ",12 "Re: Gospel Dating >So then, you require the same amount of evidence to believe that I >a) own a pair of bluejeans and b) have superhuman powers? Well, I could use the argument that some here use about ""nature"" and claim that you cannot have superhuman powers because you are a human; superhuman powers are beyond what a human has, and since you are a human, any powers you have are not beyond those of a human. Hence, you cannot have superhuman powers. Sound good to you? Anyway, to the evidence question: it depends on the context. In this group, since you are posting from a american college site, I'm willing to take it as given that you have a pair of blue jeans. And, assuming there is some coherency in your position, I will take it as a given that you do not have superhuman powers. Arguments are evidence in themselves, in some respects. >When you say the ""existence of [ sic ] Jesus"", I assume that you >mean just the man, without any special powers, etc. Yep. >Many will agree that it is very possible that a man called Jesus DID >in fact live. In fact, I am willing to agree that there was some man named >Jesus. I have no reason to believe that there wasn't ever a man. Good. >However, most of the claims ARE extradinary: eg virgin birth >[ virgin in the sense of not having any sexual intercourse ], resurection, >Son of God, etc. THOSE claims require extra evidence. ""Extra"" evidence? Why don't we start with evidence at all? I cannot see any evidence for the V. B. which the cynics in this group would ever accept. As for the second, it is the foundation of the religion. Anyone who claims to have seen the risen Jesus (back in the 40 day period) is a believer, and therefore is discounted by those in this group; since these are all ancients anyway, one again to choose to dismiss the whole thing. The third is as much a metaphysical relationship as anything else-- even those who agree to it have argued at length over what it *means*, so again I don't see how evidence is possible. I thus interpret the ""extraordinary claims"" claim as a statement that the speaker will not accept *any* evidence on the matter. -- C. Wingate + ""The peace of God, it is no peace, + but strife closed in the sod. mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing: tove!mangoe + the marv'lous peace of God."" ",0 "Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long) From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com >Actually, it was the fact that both situations existed that prompted US >and allied action. If some back-water country took over some other >back-water country, we probably wouldn't intervene. Not that we don't >care, but we can't be the world's policman. Or if a coup had occured >in Kuwait (instead of an invasion), then we still wouldn't have acted >because there would not have been the imminent danger perceived to >Saudi Arabia. But the combination of the two, an unprovoked invasion >by a genocidal tyrant AND the potential danger to the West's oil >interests, caused us to take action. There are many indications that would have taken place had Saddam been wanting or planning on going into Saudi Arabia. There were none. This has been openly stated by ex-Pentagon analysts. Pull. From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com >I'm not setting up a strawman at all. If you want to argue against the >war, then the only logical alternative was to allow Hussein to keep >Kuwait. Diplomatic alternatives, including sanctions, were ineffective. Actually, reports from other mid-east countries showed that Hussein was ready to make concessions due to the sanctions. We just didn't want him to - we wanted to crush him, as well as battle-test all these high tech toys we've built over the years. From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com >Probably because we're not the saviors of the world. We can't police each >and every country that decides to self-destruct or invade another. Nor >are we in a strategic position to get relief to Tibet, East Timor, or >some other places. We're also hypocrites of the first magnitude. Obviously, we don't give a shit about freedom and democracy. All we care about is our oil. Oh, and the excuse, now that the Soviets are gone from the board, to keep a sizable military presence in the gulf region. Care to make bets about when ALL our troops will come home? Basically, Saddam was OK with us. He was a killer, who tortured his own people, used gas on them, and other horrors - he was a brutal dictator, but he was OUR brutal dictator. Once he said ""fuck you"" to the US, he became the next Hitler. The same for Noriega. He was a bastard, but he was OUR bastard...until he changed his mind and went his own way. Then we had to get rid of him. David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a Mechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and Carnegie Mellon University | <<>> | Jewish homeland! ====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D===== Email: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my ""Piled Higher and Deeper"" It will be a great day when scientists and engineers have all the R&D money they need and religions have to beg for money to pay the priest. ",0 "RFD: rec.autos.saab REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION This is a request for discussion on the creation of a newsgroup concerning Saab cars. It will allow participaants to exchange information on purchasing, maintaining, repairing, and outfitting Saabs. Group Name: rec.autos.saab Status: Unmoderated Rationale: There may be enough people with Saab cars or interested in buying a Saab or interested in knowing more about Saabs for any reason to justify such a new newsgroup. The recent growth of the net could improve the turnaround time between posing a question and receiving answers from the community. Discussion: Comments on this proposed new newsgroup should be posted to the USENET Newsgroup ""news.groups"". If the reader is not able to do so, comments may be e-mailed to the proposer, at the address below. Voting: If no problems arise, voting will start 1 month from the posting date of this RFD. Proposer: Tommy Reingold tommy@boole.att.com -- Tommy Reingold AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy ",7 "Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL In article <1993Apr6.142037.9246@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: |> |>In article <1993Apr6.044323.22829@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> daniell@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel Lyddy) writes: |>> |>>You know, you're absolutely right. I think we should round up all those |>>players of European descent and ship 'em back to where they came from. Let's |>>see, with whom should we start? I dunno, Lemieux? Hmmm...sounds like he |>>has *French* blood in him!!! Hey! France is part of Europe! Send that |>>Euro-blooded boy back!!! |>> |> |>Don't you Americans study history...the French settled in North America |>as early or before the British...Lemieux can probably trace back his |>North American heritage back a lot further than most of us. |> |>Gerald |> Uh, Gerald, I think he was joking... -lisa ",10 "Lying about torture Yedi'ot Ahronot, April 9, 1993. Excerpt. EACH ONE AND HIS OWN NEVO* (* A reference to General Azri'el Nevo, Shamir's Military Secretary. Irrelevant to this excerpt.) By Nahum Barne'a . . . In mid '91 SHABAK found itself in the center of another storm [...]. A year and a half earlier, Khaled Sheikh Ali, 27, a member of the Islamic Jihad, died at the SHABAK installation in Gaza prison. The two SHABAK interrogators who were responsible for his death were put on trial. In September '91 the Supreme Court rejected their appeal and sentenced them to 6 months in prison. As far as is known, this was the first time in Israel's history that SHABAK operatives were sent to prison. The Supreme Court unanimously rejected the warning by the director of SHABAK that the sentence will be detrimental the effectiveness of other interrogators. [...] The judges in the case were [...] Barak, Goldberg, and Matza. When they realized that they were on their own, the interrogators agreed to talk. Deputy State Attorney Rachel Sukkar[sp?] was placed in charge of investigating the affair. She [...] questioned the directors of all SHABAK divisions. She investigated only the matter of the death in Gaza prison. She discovered that not only torture, but also ""the culture of lies"", which Judge Landau had described in his report of two years before, were still very much in existence. Nothing had changed. The report was classified and was seen by only some ten people, among them the Prime Minister, the people at the top of the judicial system and Judge Landau. The director of SHABAK claimed that he did not know. After all, they were dealing only with a single jail and with low ranking people. The system bit the bullet and accepted the explanation. One of SHABAK's high-ranking officials was transfered from his very high position to a less high position. . . . [""The culture of lies"" referred to above is the SHABAK interrogators' policy of lying in court when denying detainees claims that they were tortured in the course of interrogation. The Landau commission sought to correct this problem by legalizing a list of torture methods -- thus eliminating the fear that a detainee might be released if those methods were used to extract a confession. The fact that the need to lie still persists would seem to indicate that SHABAK is not sticking to the ""approved"" torture methods. -- Yigal] -- Yigal Arens USC/ISI TV made me do it! arens@isi.edu ",17 "Translating TTTDDD to DXF or Swiv3D. I am a Mac-user when it comes to graphics (that's what I own software and hardware for) and I've recently come across a large number of TTTDDD format modeling databases. Is there any software, mac or unix, for translating those to something I could use, like DXF? Please reply via email. Thanx. Eric Oehler oehler@picard.cs.wisc.edu ",1 "Only test message It's only test message. ",10 "Re: 16 million vs 65 thousand colors andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew) writes: >d9hh@dtek.chalmers.se (Henrik Harmsen) writes: >>1-4 bits per R/G/B gives horrible machbanding visible in almost any picture. >>5 bits per R/G/B (32768, 65000 colors) gives visible machbanding >>color-gradient picture has _almost_ no machbanding. This color-resolution is >>see some small machbanding on the smooth color-gradient picture, but all in all, >>There _ARE_ situiations where you get visible mach-banding even in >>a 24 bit card. If >>you create a very smooth color gradient of dark-green-white-yellow >>or something and turn >>up the contrast on the monitor, you will probably see some mach-banding. > While I don't mean to damn Henrik's attempt to be helpful here, >he's using a common misconception that should be corrected. > Mach banding will occur for any image. It is not the color >quantization you see when you don't have enough bits. It is the >human eye's response to transitions or edges between intensities. >The result is that colors near the transistion look brighter on >the brighter side and darker on the darker side. >--Andre Yeah, of course... The term 'mach banding' was not the correct one, it should've been 'color quantization effect'. Although a bad color quantization effect could result in some visible mach-bands on a picture that was smooth before it was quantizised. -- Henrik Harmsen Internet: d9hh@dtek.chalmers.se Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden. ""I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere."" ",1 "Re: Into Infinity?(WAS:Re: *Doppelganger* (was Re: Vulcan?) In article <1993Apr18.171148.6367@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes: >Later on, the Andersons tried to shed their reputation as creators of some >of the worst pseudo-scientific shows in TV history by flying ""Into Infinity."" >This was a one-off thing done as part of BBC's ""educational SF"" series ""The >Day After Tomorrow."" The Anderson episode dealt with a spaceship capable of >reaching the speed of light (""lightship Altares""), the four-man crew >eventually journeyed into a black hole and ended up on the far side of the >galaxy (I think). I saw this as a 9-year-old back in 1976 and liked it very >much, but then again I was a fan of SPACE:1999 so I guess I was easily >satisfied in those days:-) Wow. I was beginning to think that I had made that up. I remember that movie (it was about 1.5 hours long). I don't think they ended up anywhere in the known universe. I remember they got a message halfway out to Proxima Centauri, that Earth transmitted a day after they launched, timed to catch up with them at the halfway point. I thought it was neat, I think I was all of 10 at the time. >Does anyone know if ""Into Infinity"" has been released on video? I have some >SPACE:1999 shows on VHS and know that Thunderbirds etc. also are available in >England. Space:1999 has just come out with 4 episodes released in American stores. I will look for the Into Infinity show, I never did know that was the name of it, I thought the show was called ""the day after tomorrow"", and that was it. -- If you blow fire against the wind, take care to not get the smoke in your eyes. Big & Growly Dragon-monster | bafta@cats.ucsc.edu --------> shari brooks <-------- | brooks@anarchy.arc.nasa.gov The above opinions are solely my own. ",14 "Re: WACO burning In article , hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes: ...... > > No Koresh is responsible. > > If a murderer goes on the rampage it is the murderer who is responsible. > The police may bear responsiblity for failing to stop him but the primary > responsibility is with the murderer. > When did Koresh go on a rampage? What I saw was an unnecessary, unprovoked massive attack on Feb. 28th. Probably even an illegal action by ATF, certainly way out of proportion to anything reasonable. And yet, according to a pole taken yesterday, 95% of the people poled believe the government forces acted appropriately. They don`t believe Reno or the President have any guilt in ordering/allowing the attack. I suppose they also believed things like: ""I would present a 5-year plan to balance the budget."" ""We don`t need to lead with a tax increase...."" ""It starts with a middle-class tax cut..."" ""I`ll have the bills ready the day after I am inaugurated and we`ll have a 100 day period....It will be the most productive in modern history."" ""I will ask congress for a line item veto.."" ""I will lift the social security earnings test.."" I personally prefer to disbelieve the government until they prove themselves right, rather than the other way around. That way I have a better than 50% chance of being right about my first guess! Read the constitution sometime, it is supposed to protect the citizens and their rights. I am sick of the abuse of government power. As Tom Jefferson said: ""When all government,..., shall be drawn to Washington as the centre of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."" (1821) ",16 "Re: Needed: Plotting package that does... In article , full_gl@pts.mot.com (Glen Fullmer) writes: |> Looking for a graphics/CAD/or-whatever package on a X-Unix box that will |> take a file with records like: |> |> n a b p |> |> where n = a count - integer |> a = entity a - string |> b = entity b - string |> p = type - string |> |> and produce a networked graph with nodes represented with boxes or circles |> and the vertices represented by lines and the width of the line determined by |> n. There would be a different line type for each type of vertice. The boxes |> need to be identified with the entity's name. The number of entities < 1000 |> and vertices < 100000. It would be nice if the tool minimized line |> cross-overs and did a good job of layout. ;-) |> |> I have looked in the FAQ for comp.graphics and gnuplot without success. Any |> ideas would be appreciated? |> |> Thanks, |> -- |> Glen Fullmer, glen_fullmer@pts.mot.com, (407)364-3296 |> Hi, See Roger Grywalski's response to : Re: Help on network visualization in comp.graphics.visualization. Amongst other things, it does exactly this! -- Chris Murphy - chris@alta-oh.com (614) 792-2222 Columbus. OH. ",1 "COntrol SYstems analysis PAcKage-COSY_PAK v0.9(updated)-for Mathematica ******************************************************************** * * * Announcing * * * * COSY_PAK * * * * (A symbolic COntrol SYstems analysis PAcKage) * * * * Version 0.9 * * * * (NO USER FEE RELEASE) * * * * for * * * * Mathematica Version 2.0 or higher * * * ******************************************************************** ==> INTRODUCTION COSY_PAK is set of packages and notebooks for classical control and (some) modern (state space) control analysis and design methods. The notebooks in COSY_PAK follow a typical `Control Engineering I' course taught at many universities around the world for the junior/senior level undergraduates. There is NO FEE to use COSY_PAK but certain responsibilities are expected of the user (see Copyright notice in the README file included below). For starters e-mail / FAX / Mail (Post) the registration form included in the README file. COSY_PAK is available via `anonymous ftp' from mishna.esys.cwru.edu (INTERNET No : 129.22.40.23) in the /pub directory. P.S.: A typical ftp session in UNIX is given after the README file. ==> FUTURE RELEASES If you would like to receive updates and newer versions of COSY_PAK please send e-mail/FAX/mail to the address below. In addition, your comments and suggestions are appreciated and are invaluable to us. We will do our best to fix any reported bugs. However, we cannot fix those bugs that have not been reported to us and those we do not know of. We would very much appreciate you taking a few minutes to communicate to us via e-mail / US Mail / Telephone / FAX. This will help us to release bug-free versions in the future. Comments are welcome. N. Sreenath Systems Engineering Department Case School of Engineering Case Western Reserve University ****************** e-mail: sree@mishna.cwru.edu U.S. Mail: Prof. N. Sreenath Tel.: (216) 368-6219 Systems Engg., Crawford Hall FAX: (216) 368-3123 Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland OH 44106-7070 ========================= Begin README file ========================= (NO USER FEE RELEASE) COSY_PAK (A symbolic COntrol SYstems analysis PAcKage) Version 0.9 for Mathematica Version 2.0 or higher by C.K.Chen N. Sreenath Systems Engineering Case School of Engineering Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH, 44106-7070 e-mail: sree@mishna.cwru.edu --> Copyright :Copyright: Copyright 1992 by C. K. Chen and N. Sreenath, Case Western Reserve University. Permission to use, copy, modify and distribute this software and its documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice appear in supporting documentation, and the name of the Case Western Reserve University, Case School of Engineering not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of the software without specific, without prior permission. Case Western Reserve University makes no representations about the suitability of this software for any purpose. It is provided ""as is"" with out express or implied warranty. --> Acknowledgements Support from CWRU Information and Network Services - Dr. Ray Neff, Case Alumni Association, The Lilly Foundation and the Systems Engineering Department of Case Western Reserve University is gratefully acknowledged. Special thanks to Brian Evans of Georgia Tech for all the help. --> FTP COSY_PAK is available by anonymous `ftp' from mishna.esys.cwru.edu (Internet No. 129.22.40.23). A sample ftp session is given at the end of this file. ********************************************************************** --> Changes in Version 0.9 (update from v0.81 to v0.9) In this version, we have revised COSY_PAK to take advantage of the more robust signal processing functions available in Mathematica v2.1. Since Mathematica 2.1 provides a better and working LaplaceTransform and InverseLaplaceTransform functions than Mathematica v2.0 did, we adopted them. This has made COSY_PAK smaller. Thus Brian Evans' Signal Processing packages that supported the LaplaceTransform and InverseLaplaceTransform functions in the COSY_PAK v0.81 are no longer needed directly by COSY_PAK v0.9. For power users who use Signal Processing we still recommend the use of the very fine Brian Evans package on Signal Processing (available at the anonymous ftp site gauss.eedsp.gatech.edu or IP # 130.207.226.24). On the downside, the disadvantage of this update can be that Mathematica 2.1 requires more runtime resources than its previous version. *********************************************************************** --> For Mathematica 2.0 users We have included the LaplaceTransform package from Mathematica 2.1 in the directory `For_2.0'. Please move all files and directory under For_2.0 into the Calculus directory under Mathematica Packages directory. ************************************************************************** --> Introduction This is an unsupported release of COSY_PAK - a COntrol SYstems analysis PAcKage for symbolic control systems analysis using Mathematica 2.1. Classical control systems analysis and design methods and some modern control systems methods have been implemented in this package. This package and the attendant notebooks were developed on a NeXT (TM) computer (a UNIX based workstation). They have been used as a supplementary teaching aid along with standard control engineering texts (Ogata [1991], Phillips and Harbor [1991]) for undergraduate courses in `Control Engineering I' taught at the Systems Engineering Department of CWRU. In addition to the NeXT, they have also been tested successfully on Apple Macintosh computers (TM), and, IBM PC's (TM) running MS Windows(TM). We would be very much interested to hear from you if you or anybody you know uses this software on platforms not mentioned above. IBM users however will have to evaluate the notebooks first to visualize the graphics. Once installed (see below for instructions), this collection of Mathematica packages can be loaded by any user. Bundled with the packages are many notebooks (""COSY_Notes"") which demonstrate the functionality of these packages. The notebooks follow a plan of many fine, standard, undergraduate Control Engineering text books listed in the references. Examples used in these notebooks have been collected from the various references given at the end of this file. The contents of the notebooks in the ""COSY_Notes"" directory are given below. ----------- Begin ""COSY_Notes"" Contents ----------- NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 01_Introduction.ma CHAPTER 1: Introduction to Control Systems Sections: Analyticity Poles and Zeros Signals Forward Laplace Transforms Inverse Laplace Transforms Differential Equation With Zero-Valued Initial Conditions Differential Equation With Initial Conditions ----------- NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 02_Math_Models.ma CHAPTER 2: Mathematical Modeling of Dynamic Systems Sections: ODE to State Space Linearization of a Nonlinear System of Equations State Space to Transfer Function ----------- NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_*_Transient_Response.ma CHAPTER 3: Transient-Response Analysis (Chapter split into three sub notebooks because of file size) NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_1_Transient_Response.ma Sections : Time Response Analysis First order System Second Order System Third Order and Higher Order Systems NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_2_Transient_Response.ma Sections : First Order System (Step Response vs. Time Const) NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 03_3_Transient_Response.ma Sections : Second Order System (Step Response vs. Damping Ratio) ----------- NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 04_Steady_State_Response.ma CHAPTER 4: Steady-State Response Sections: Routh's Stability Steady-State Error Analysis ----------- NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 05_Root_Locus.ma CHAPTER 5: Root-Locus Analysis ----------- NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 06_Freq_Response.ma CHAPTER 6: Frequency-Response Analysis Sections: Bode Plot Analysis Magnitude vs. Phase Plot (Nichols Plot) Polar Plot Nyquist Plot Combined Example ----------- NOTEBOOK FILE NAME: 07_State_Space.ma CHAPTER 7: State Space Methods Sections: Introduction State Transition Matrix Controllability Observability Output Controllability Pole Placement Design Observer Design Time Response Using State Space Methods ----------- End Notebook Contents ----------- --> Compressed Files The files that contain a complete set of the COSY_PAK v0.9 packages and Notebooks for Mathematica are: COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z compressed tar file for Unix systems COSY_PAK_09.sit.hqx compressed sit file for Macintosh systems and encoded by BinHex 4.0 format (requires the shareware Stuffit file v 1.5.1 or higher). COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip zip file for the IBM PC running MS-DOS Once expanded the Mathematica files can also be used on Macintosh / IBM PC / Unix systems also. --> Installation of COSY_PAK o In UNIX Command line type the following command: zcat COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z | tar xvf - o In Macintosh open the .sit.hqx file using the shareware Stuffit v 1.5.1 or higher. o In IBM Command line type the following command: pkunzip -o -d COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip NOTE: This .zip file was zipped by zip utility v2.0. You must use pkunzip version 2.0 or higher to unzip it. IBM PC's may limit the directory name characters to eight. In that event type ""pkunzip -o -d COSY_PAK.zip. You can also unzip the COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip file on any Unix machine if you have unzip utility on it. Uncompressing and untarring ""COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z"" or unzipping ""COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip"" will create a directory called ""COSY_PAK"". Once the files are expanded you should see a single directory ""COSY_PAK"" containing the following three files, four sub-directories and their contents: SUB-DIRECTORIES in ""COSY_PAK"": COSYPAK - contains control tool box packages MANUAL - COSY_PAK manual in .ps, .rtf, .txt, and .wn formats. COSY_Notes - contains notebooks For_2.0 - contains Laplace transform package from Mathematica 2.1 For Mathematica 2.0 users. FILES in directory ""COSYPAK"": chap1.m chap2.m chap3.m chap4.m chap5.m chap6.m chap7.m FILES in directory ""COSY_Notes"": 01_Introduction.ma 02_Math_Model.ma 03_1_Transient_Response.ma 03_2_Transient_Response.ma 03_3_Transient_Response.ma 04_Steady_State_Response.ma 05_Root_Locus.ma 06_Freq_Response.ma 07_State_Space.ma FILES in directory ""For_2.0"": LaplaceTransform.m DiracDelta.m SUB-DIRECTORIES in ""COSY_PAK"": Common FILES in directory ""Common"": Support.m ********************* Important ******************** The notebook example files(.ma files) will be under the ""COSY_Notes"" directory. To use the notebooks, move the directory `COSYPAK' to a directory that Mathematica can recognize : /LocalLibrary/Mathematica/Packages on a UNIX machine, MY_HardDisk:Mathematica:Packages on an Apple Macintosh, c:\winmath\packages on an IBM PC. At the beginning of the ""Initialization"" cell of each notebook in ""COSY_Notes"" directory, we list the example about how to make Mathematica identify the directory: (* Initialization of Path *) (* Example For a UNIX machine (Default) *) (* $Path=Join[$Path, {""/LocalLibrary/Mathematica/Packages""}]; *) (* Example For an Apple Macintosh *) (* $Path=Join[$Path, {""MY_HardDisk:Mathematica:Packages""}]; *) (* Example For IBM PC *) (* $Path=Join[$Path, {""c:\winmath\packages""}]; *) Change the pathname according to your machine by removing the Mathematica comment sign `(*' and `)*' before and after `$Path' setting. This command makes Mathematica recognize the directory /LocalLibrary/Mathematica/Packages on a UNIX machine MY_HardDisk:Mathematica:Packages on a Apple Macintosh c:\winmath\packages on an IBM PC --> Mathematica 2.0 users We include the LaplaceTransform package from Mathematica 2.1 in the directory For_2.0. Please move all files and directory under For_2.0 into the Calculus directory under Mathematica Packages directory. --> Getting started After installation, start Mathematica and open the notebooks in the ""COSY_Notes"" directory. All notebooks load their own packages. Navigate in the notebooks and enjoy. IBM users however will have to evaluate the notebooks to visualize the graphics. *************************************************************** --> USER RESPONSIBILITIES We request you to take a few minutes and fill out the information below and mail it to us by e-mail / FAX / U.S. Mail. This will help us to keep your abreast of the improvements and release new versions of COSY_PAK. Suggestions for improvements are welcome. -------------------------------cut here------------------------------- YOUR NAME: ________________________________________ ORGANIZATION: ________________________________________ TITLE: ________________________________________ e-mail: ________________________________________ POSTAL ADDRESS:________________________________________ ________________________________________ Comments & ________________________________________ Suggestions: ________________________________________ ________________________________________ -------------------------------cut here------------------------------- Mail this information to (E-mail / FAX / U.S. Mail) : INTERNET: sree@mishna.cwru.edu U.S. Mail: Prof. N. Sreenath Tel.: (216) 368-6219 Systems Engg., Crawford Hall FAX: (216) 368-3123 Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland OH 44106-7070 *************************************************************** --> REPORT BUGS Please report bugs and leave comments to the address above. Any suggestion for improvements and criticism are welcome. We will do our best to fix any reported bugs. However, we cannot fix those bugs that have not been reported to us and those we do not know of. We would very much appreciate you taking a few minutes to communicate to us via e-mail / US Mail / Telephone / FAX. This will help us to release bug-free versions in the future. *************************************************************** --> Disclaimer and Future Releases This software is the property of the Case Western Reserve University. Use this software at your own risk. We make no express or implied warranty. The packages and the notebooks can also be made to run under Mathematica versions 2.0 or lower with modification. We do not guarantee the outcome. --> Documentation COSY_PAK functions are indexed in the files in the `MANUAL' directory according the chapters. Usage is illustrated in notebooks residing in `COSY_Notes' directory. If your computer does not support notebooks find a Macintosh computer and acquire MathReader which is a public domain notebook reader. MathReader will at least allow you to peruse notebooks but you will not be able to evaluate any code fragments. --> References Dorf, R. C., ""Modern Control Systems"", Sixth Edition, Addison Wesley, New York, 1992. Fortmann, T. E., and Hitz, K. L., ""An Introduction to Linear Control Systems"", Marcel Dekker, 1977. Franklin, G. F., Powell, D. J., and Emami-Naeini, A., ""Feedback Control of Dynamic Systems"", Second Edition, Addison Wesley, New York, 1991. Kuo, B. C., ""Automatic Control Systems"", Sixth Edition, Prentice Hall, New Jersey, 1990. Ogata, K., ""Modern Control Engineering"", Second Edition, Prentice Hall, New Jersey, 1991. Phillips, C. L., and Harbor, R. D., ""Feedback Control Systems"", Second Edition, Prentice Hall, New Jersey, 1991. ========================= End README file ========================= TYPICAL `ftp' session : ----------------------- %ftp mishna.esys.cwru.edu Connected to mishna. 220 mishna FTP server (Version 5.20 (NeXT 1.0) Sun Nov 11, 1990) ready. Name (mishna.esys.cwru.edu:sree): anonymous Password: ftp> cd /pub ftp> binary ftp> ls 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z COSY_PAK_IBM_09.zip Index README places.wmd COSY_PAK_untar 226 Transfer complete. 78 bytes received in 0 seconds (15.35 Kbytes/s) ftp> get COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z (460822 bytes). 226 Transfer complete. local: COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z remote: COSY_PAK_09.tar.Z 460822 bytes received in 1.33 seconds (3.38e+02 Kbytes/s) ftp> quit 221 Goodbye. -- ",2 "Re: Sandberg, Runs, RBIs (was: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series) In article bratt@crchh7a9.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Bratt) writes: >RBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics. You >can talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains: > > The team that scores more runs wins the game! > --------------------------------------------- > >Flame Away So what does that have to do with RBI's? The team with the most RBI's doesn't necessarily win the game. Yes, runs are the most important statistice -- for a *team*. (So why does every newspaper rank team offense by batting average?) But for an individual player, runs and RBIs are context-dependent, and tell us very little about the player himself, and more about his teammates and position in the batting order. -- ted frank | thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | I'm sorry, the card says ""Moops."" the u of c law school | standard disclaimers | ",9 "Theory on David Koresh My theory is that Koresh was seriously wounded in the initial gunbattle and died on Day 9 of the siege. On Day 11 of the siege he rose from the dead and periodically appeared to his followers and the FBI over the next 40 days. Living with someone who's risen from the dead isn't easy, as Timmy Baterman's father in *Pet*Sematary* could attest, so after 40 days they did what Baterman did--shot themselves and burned the place to the ground. Consistent with the facts, isn't it? Did anyone actually *see* Koresh between Day 9 and Day 11? -- David W. Ash | ""What profits a man if he keeps his eternal soul ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu | when he could have lived life to the full and HOME: (415) 853-6860 | been forgiven at the end of it all anyway?"" | --David Merritt, a.k.a. THE RED SHARK ",19 "aXe/HP-UX Problem I`ve been happy with aXe under Linux. Now I wanted to use it under HP-UX, too. However, my attempts have ended in core dumps this far (Bus Error). Has anybody else been more successful? Jim Wight`s INSTALL file does say there have been problems with HP`s... Data: aXe 5.0; HP-UX 9.01; X11R4 or X11R5 doesn`t seem to matter (shared libs); HP 9000/720. Thanks in advance, -- Sakari Aaltonen | Linux is an ftp-able Unix clone for 386/486 PC's. sakaria@vipunen.hut.fi | Boggles *my* mind, it does. ",5 "Mac 512KE/HD20 FOR SALE For Sale MAC 512Ke with mouse and keyboard. Functions fine HD20 Serial Hard Drive.. plugs into Floppy port and gives a 20MB HD Make offers -- .sig under construction -- send suggestions to pledge@netcom.com ",6 "Re: who are we to judge, Bobby? In article <1993Apr14.213356.22176@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes: >From: snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) >Subject: Re: who are we to judge, Bobby? >Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 21:33:56 GMT >In article healta@saturn.wwc.edu (TAMMY R HEALY) writes: >>Bobby, >> >>I would like to take the liberty to quote from a Christian writer named >>Ellen G. White. I hope that what she said will help you to edit your >>remarks in this group in the future. >> >>""Do not set yourself as a standard. Do not make your opinions, your views >>of duty, your interpretations of scripture, a criterion for others and in >>your heart condemn them if they do not come up to your ideal."" >> Thoughts Fromthe Mount of Blessing p. 124 >> >>I hope quoting this doesn't make the atheists gag, but I think Ellen White >>put it better than I could. >> >>Tammy > >Point? > >Peace, > >Bobby Mozumder > My point is that you set up your views as the only way to believe. Saying that all eveil in this world is caused by atheism is ridiculous and counterproductive to dialogue in this newsgroups. I see in your posts a spirit of condemnation of the atheists in this newsgroup bacause they don' t believe exactly as you do. If you're here to try to convert the atheists here, you're failing miserably. Who wants to be in position of constantly defending themselves agaist insulting attacks, like you seem to like to do?! I'm sorry you're so blind that you didn't get the messgae in the quote, everyone else has seemed to. Tammy ",0 "HELP 8088/80286 ADVICE I own an 8088 640K clone which does all I want except run 1 game I want to buy. The game says it requires a 80286 with 640K. Game tech. support says game will run on 8088 but uses a some digitized graphics which would make it run really *slow* (it's a card game - Hoyles Classic Card Games, digitized graphics are photos artwork of game fictional card players). What can I do to speed up how this game would run, short of an 80286 motherboard upgrade. Co-processor? Accelerator card mimicking 80286? My 8088 can run at 10 Mhz. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Gil (guf@psuvm.psu.edu) ",3 "Dbase IV for sale (price dropped!) Dbase IV, ver 1.5, 3.5 disks. Manuals still shrinkwrapped, and all registration materials present. Asking $125. ",6 "HELP! Setting Colormaps on multi-top-level APP Dear SGI and netter GL-X Mixed-Model experts, I am writing a mixed model application that creates a couple different color maps for different windows, and I've been having trouble getting the window manager to reliably honor my requests. In some environments (entry level R3000 Indigo w/ 4.0.5) all windows are getting properly connected to their designated color maps, but on others (an IRIS 4D 240/GTX; also a different entry level Indigo) the color mapping is unreliable and changes behavior when I compile at different times. The most common problem is that all non-top-level windows fail to be displayed according to their colormap. My application starts out by creating three top-level windows; in some cases all but the first of these also fail to be displayed by their colormap. This is spectacularly aggravating. I would dearly appreciate 1. an explanation of the standard, RIGHT, CORRECT way to give a window a colormap such that the Window Manager will Honor and Obey it; 2. any advice about problems that could cause my failure to get my desired colormaps. By now I have exhausted my own attempts on this, having tried everything reasonable or imaginable. Below is example code giving the schematic for how I have been *TRYING* to do this. Please, please, please SOMEBODY tell me what I am doing wrong/how to do it right!!! Yours, Chris Lee /***********************************************************************/ Display* dpy; /* DECLARE SOME DATA... */ Colormap popup_cmap; XColor mycolor; Window win; XSetWindowAttributes cwa; int nwlist; Window *wlist; /* NB: FOR BREVITY, NOT SHOWING ALL CODE LINES--JUST A SCHEMATIC */ popup_cmap=XCreateColormap(dpy,DefaultRootWindow(dpy),vis->visual,AllocAll); /* HERE WE STORE A BUNCH OF COLORS USING XStoreColor(dpy,popup_cmap,&mycolor); ... */ cwa.colormap = popup_cmap; win = XCreateWindow(dpy, parent, x, y, w, h, borderWidth, vis->depth, InputOutput, vis->visual, CWColormap|CWBorderPixel, &cwa); /* LIST ALL SUB WINDOWS OF my_topwin, PARENT OF win, INTO wlist; nwlist IS COUNTER OF ENTRIES IN wlist. NB: wlist is static storage that can be relied on not to go away or be corrupted. I thought of that! Does anyone know if setting WM properties is by data copy, or by reference pointer? ie. is it acceptable to pass data for a Property, then free the data? */ XSetWMColormapWindows(dpy,my_topwin,wlist,nwlist); XMapRaised(Display0,win); /* LATER ON WE HANDLE XEvents NORMALLY... TYPICAL EVENTLOOP */ ",5 "PGP Where to get it? I am both new to this news group and to the net. I am facinated by the things I have heard about the PGP encryption program. Does anybody out there know where I might get a version of this program that runs under Windows 3.1, MS-Dos, Unix w/source? As of this writting I have no UNIX access and am running on a nifty windows implamentation of uucico. Thanks in advance! _____________________________________________________________________ \Jeff Hupp |Internet: jhupp@shockwave.win.net \ |9797 Medowglen, Apt. 1807 |Ad: Contract Programming, Novell | |Houston, Texas 77042 | Network Design and Support. | |Voice: (713) 780 - 9419 |""The best govenment doesn't"" -- me. | \_____________________________________________________________________\ ",11 "Re: NHLPA poll (partial stats/results) In article <1993Apr20.124012.3383@mtroyal.ab.ca> caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca writes: >>All these people who send in their polls should take a closer look at >>NJD, they are a very deep team, with two very capable goalies, and >>excellent forwards and defensemen. Shooter in Richer, an all around do >>it all in Todd, chef Stasny-master of a thousand dishes, power play >Kevin Todd is an Oiler and has been one for months. How closely do you follow >the Devils, anyway? Jeez.... Sigh. This was written about the game NHLPA Hockey '93. Which does not have precise up-to-date rosters. Why don't people think before they post? Jeez... -- GO SKINS! ||""Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite GO BRAVES! || an effect on you?"" - Mike Patton, Faith No More GO HORNETS! || GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu ",10 "Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50 In article jgladu@bcm.tmc.edu (grungy/John F. Gladu) writes: >In article <1993Apr6.130550.13550@cs.tulane.edu>, >finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan) wrote: >> >> As an additional data point, I have run Castrol 20W50 exclusively >> in the following cars: 75 Rabbit, 78 Scirocco, 76 Rabbit, 78 Bus, >> 70 Beetle, 76 Bus, 86 Jetta GLI. I've never had an oil-related >> problem. > >Add mine to that list: '71,'72 SuperBeetles; '68,'69 Bugs; '61 dddPanel; >(cringe) '87 Toyota Tercel (It's my WIFE's car, honest:-). I'm still >chicken about running it in the '90 Vanagon - that's got Castrol 10W40 in >it. I don't understand this last statement about the '90Vanagon...Our '90Vanagon Owner's Manual RECOMMENDS 20W50 !! Ari Ollikainen(former VW fanatic: 62Bug, 62Bug+Porschepower, 64.5Porsche356SC, 68BugAuto-Stick, 69Camper, 71Camper, 73Westfalia, 73VWPorsche914/2.0, 81Westfalia, 85Vanagon, 85Westfalia...and now only 90VanagonCarat) ",7 "Re: [rw] Is Robert Weiss the only orthodox Christian? >I'm curious to know if Christians ever read books based on critique >on the religion, classical text such as ""Age of Reason"" by Paine, >or ""The Myth Maker"" by Jacobi. Sometimes it is good to know your >enemy, and if you want to do serious research you have to understand >both sides, and not solely the one and only right one. Yes, one does. I examined a critique of the Book of Romans by I think, Benjamin Franklin once, a Deist. I found it amazing that Benjamin Franklin missed the whole boat. I also have the writings on Thomas Jefferson sitting on my shelf, and it is amazing how much he missed. I have studied Plato's Theory of Forms and Aristotelian Hylomorphesism. What a pile of junk. Jesus makes Plato and Aristotle look like kindergardeners. Psychology, the id, ego, superego by Freud? Elements of truth, but Jesus explained it far better and gave reasons. Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson are mere men. They can screw up the Bible just as well as any man. I do not put these men on a pedestal. And if I remember T.J.'s autobiography correctly, he thought Thomas Paine was the most unread man he ever met. Here's some more circular reasoning to you. Paul says to the Corinthians that ""that the gospel will be foolishness to the world, because it is spiritually discerned."" And so, people without the spirit of God haven't a clue to what the Bible is saying. From your point of view, that's incredibly circular and convenient. To me, it is mysteriously and supernaturally bizarre. I can see it, but you can't. This is not arrogance on my part. Trust me. It is as bizarre to you as it is to me. But nonetheless, it is a truth, explainable or not. Are any of you color blind to red and green? I am. Remember those dot tests they do at the optomologist's? They put pictures in front of you and you are supposed to identify the pattern in the dots? If your eyes are perfectly normal, you can see letters or numerals embedded in the dots. They are a slightly different color and stand out from the background. But if you are color blind to red and green, you will not see anything but gray-shaded dots. That is how a dot test appears to me. I do not see a pattern at all. A normal seeing person will see the patterns. And to him, I seem like a total anomaly. To him, I appear as if I am missing the universe or something. It is hard for him to understand why I can't see anything that to him is as plain as day. That it what it is like with the Bible, the Word of God, to the believer. The believer can see the meaning in the words. I can see how the patterns fit together. There is such depth. Such consistency. But then, on the other hand, I notice the non-believer. He doesn't see it. He thinks I am weird because he thinks I am seeing things. I look at him, and say, ""No, you are weird. You do not see."" Then it is time for a sanity check. I go to another Christian and say, ""Do you see this."" And they go, ""Yes. It is an ""X"""". And I say, ""Thank God, I see the ""X"" too."" It is truly the strangest thing. It adds a little extra dimension to the phrase, ""He will make the blind see, and the deaf hear."" I am glad that Jesus has enabled me to see. I wish every non-believer could see what they are missing. ",19 "Re: And America's Team is....But Why? In a previous article, steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman) says: >cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes: > >> The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes >>out of nowhere to contend. The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples, >>not the Cubs. > >Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with ""no talent"" >over 162 games. > >I would amend your definition to: > >underdog: a team expected to lose, but which wins thanks to underestimated > talent. >-- >Dave! > OK, the Mets and O's are good examples, but what about the '90 Reds? Do you really think that anyone expected them to sweep the A's? I know people who didn't even think they'd win a game, let alone win the Series. We proved them wrong, though, didn't we? As for this year, ignore their record now. They've had a rocky start, and that has nothing to do with Colorado. They shall rise again. The hunt for a Reds' October continues. (with all due respect to WLW) Bye. -- MICHELSON- - - - -1993 SPRING OLYMPICS CHAMPIONS Road Rally, 5-legged Race, Rope Pull, Snarf, Penny Wars, Banner, Spirit Cheer. The Michelson Menace rides again! (Don't you just love that intense nationalistic feeling in a residence hall?) ",9 "Re: Satellite around Pluto Mission? In <1993Apr30.004311.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >Being wierd again, so be warned: >Is there a plan to put a satellite around each planet in the solar system to >keep watch? I help it better to ask questions before I spout an opinion. >How about a mission (unmanned) to Pluto to stay in orbit and record things >around and near and on Pluto.. I know it is a strange idea, but why not?? >It could do some scanning of not only Pluto, but also of the solar system, >objects near and aaroundpluto, as well as SETI and looking at the galaxy >without having much of the solar system to worry about.. Doing this in anything like reasonable time would require more propulsion capability than we can manage. You would have to boost to Pluto and then slow back down. You could do something like a Hohman orbit, but I think that would take ridiculous amounts of time (my Rubber Bible is at home). -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",14 "Re: Societally acceptable behavior In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) >Subject: Societally acceptable behavior >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 13:39:39 GMT >Merely a question for the basis of morality > >Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_. >1)Who is society >2)How do ""they"" define what is acceptable? >3)How do we keep from a ""whatever is legal is what is ""moral"" ""position? >MAC Wow! You got me thinking now! This is an interesting question in that recently there has been a move in society to classify previously ""socially unacceptable"" yet legal activities as OK. In the past it seems to me there were always two coexisting methods of social control. First (and most explicit) is legal control. That is the set of actions we define as currently illegal and having a specifically defined set of punishments. Secondly (and somewhat more hidden) is social control. These are the actions which are considered socially unacceptable and while not covered by legal control, are scrictly controled by social censure. Ideally (if socialization is working as it should) legal control is hardly ever needed since most people voluntarilly control their actions due to the pressure of social censure. The control manifests itself in day-to-day life as ""guilt"" and ""morality"". I've heard it said (and fully believe) that if it weren't for the VAST majority of people policing themselves, legal control would be absolutely impossible. Lately (last 50, 100 years?) however there has been a move to attempt to dissengage the individual from societal control (ie. if it ain't illegal, then don't pick on me). I'm not saying this is wrong, merely that it is a byproduct of a society which has: 1) A high education level, 2) A high exposure to alternative ideas via the popular media, 3) A high level of institutionalized individual rights, and 4) A ""me"" oriented culture. I guess what I'm saying is that we appear to be in a state of transition, here in the western world in that we still have many ideas about what we can\ can't allow people to do based entirely on personal squeamishness, yet we are fully bent on maximizing individual freedoms to the max as long as those freedoms don't impinge on another's. IMHO society is trying to persue two mutually exclusive ends here. While we appreciate and persue individual rights (these satisfy the old territoriality and dominance instincts), the removal of socialized, inherent fears based on ignorance will result in the continued destabilization of society. I got no quick fix. I have no idea how we can get ourselves out of this mess. I know I would never consent to the roll-back of personal freedoms in order to ""stabilize"" society. Yet I believe development of societies follow a Darwinian process which selects for stability. Can we find a social model which maximizes indiv. freed.'s yet is stable? Perhaps it is possible to live with a ""non-stable"" society? Anybody see a way out? Comments? PS. Therefore answer to question #3: We don't. Do we want to? Phil Trodwell *** This space ***| ""I'd be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle *** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not *** (cheap) ***| this radio!"" -Hunter S. Thompson ",0 "Re: diet for Crohn's (IBD) In article uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland) writes: >In article <1r6g8fINNe88@ceti.cs.unc.edu>, jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles) >wrote: >> >> A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn's >> disease. >> >> But she can't seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables, >> without discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence. >> >> Her question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the >> problems of people with Crohn's disease ? > >If she is having problems with fresh vegetables, the guess is that there >is some obstruction of the intestine. Without knowing more it is not >possible to say whether the obstruction is permanent due to scarring, >or temporary due to swelling of inflammed intestine. In general, there are >no dietary limitations in patients with Crohn's except as they relate >to obstruction. There is no evidence that any foods will bring on >recurrence of Crohn's. Interesting statements, simply because I have been told otherwise. I'm certainly not questioning Steve's claims, as for one I am not a doctor, and I agree that foods don't bring on the recurrence of Crohn's. But inflammation can be either mildly or DRASTICALLY enhanced due to food. Having had one major obstruction resulting in resection (is that a good enough caveat :-), I was told that a *LOW RESIDUE* diet is called for. Basically, the idea is that if there is inflammation of the gut (which may not be realized by the patient), any residue in the system can be caught in the folds of inflammation and constantly irritate, thus exacerbating the problem. Therefore, anything that doesn't digest completely by the point of common inflammation should be avoided. With what I've been told is typical Crohn's, of the terminal ileum, my diet should be low residue, consisting of: Completely out - never again - items: o corn (kernel husk doesn't digest ... most of us know this :-) o popcorn (same) o dried (dehydrated) fruit and fruit skins o nuts (Very tough when it comes to giving up some fudge :-) Discouraged greatly: o raw vegetables (too fibrous) o wheat and raw grain breads o exotic lettuce (iceberg is ok since it's apparently mostly water) o greens (turnip, mustard, kale, etc...) o little seeds, like sesame (try getting an Arby's without it!) o long grain and wild rice (husky) o beans (you'll generate enough gas alone without them!) o BASICALLY anything that requires heavy digestive processing I was told that the more processed the food the better! (rather ironic in this day and age). The whole point is PREVENTATIVE ... you want to give your system as little chance to inflame as possible. I was told that among the NUMEROUS things that were heavily discouraged (I only listed a few), to try the ones I wanted and see how I felt. If it's bad, don't do it again! Remember though that this was while I was in remission. For Veggies: cook the daylights out of them. I prefer steaming ... I think it's cooks more thoroughly - you're mileage may vary. As with anything else, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR. Don't just take my word. But this is the info I've been given, and it may be a starting point for discussion. Good luck! -Spenser -- S. Spenser Aden --- Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co. --- (713) 483-2028 NASA --- Flight Data and Evaluation Office --- Johnson Space Center, Houston spenser@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov (Internet) --- Opinions herein are mine alone. aden@vf.jsc.nasa.gov (if above bounces) --- ""Eschew obfuscation."" - unknown ",13 "ELECTRONIC DESIGN MAG. Newsgroup: sci.electronics From: martin.vuille@synapse.org Subject: Electronic Design Does anyone know the telephone number for the circulation department of 'Electronic Design' magazine? MV --- þ OLX 2.1 TD þ ProControl * Kemptville, ON * 04-22-93 9:35 pm ",12 "Re: ATARI 2600 Processors In article <1r847f$kp7@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> john@gu.uwa.edu.au (John West) writes: >ifarqhar@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Ian Farquhar) writes: >>Wrong, it has a 6507. >For those who would like to know, the 6507 was a 6502 without IRQ or NMI, >and with only 13 address lines (giving 8K memory space). Yes, but still not a 6502 for those differences. Same instruction set, of course. >>It had one custom chip (not an ASIC in the sense that word is now understood): >>the TIA (sometimes known as the 6526, although most other manufacturers list >>that as the CIA complex interface adapter.) TIA stands for Television >>Interface Adapter, and it handles sound, paddles and the minimal video hardware >>the 2600 possessed. >Didn't know about it being called the 6526 - thats the CIA found in the >Commodore 64 (I don't believe this chip existed when the 2600 was around). Yes, the same number, but an entirely different device. I should have qualified this further by stating that this was the PAL version of the TIA - I am not 100% sure that the NTSC TIA would have a different number. >The TIA was mapped into the bottom 128 bytes of page 0, and shadowed in the >bottom 128 bytes of page 1. To get an image on the screen, you had to wait >until the raster line your picture started at, load bitmaps for this line >into the 'sprite' registers, tell them what x positions to take, how many >duplicates you wanted, etc, then do it all again for the next line. This >took all of the processor's time during the visible portion of the >display. Does anyone on the net actually have details of the TIA, as this is the only device I have not yet discovered details about? Atari Australia, when asked, claimed that their attempts to get the programmers documentation for the 2600 had failed, as the US head office had refused to provide it. >to chip selects. The 6507 likes to have ROM right at the top of memory, so >the 2600 had to use ROMs with active high chip selects - not exactly >normal, so some cartriges had a 7404 in them to convert this to the more >usual active low chip select. I saw a couple of cheaper devices with PN2222's and a couple of resistors hooked up as a cheap inverter. Nasty, but workable, and cheaper than a 7404 inverter if labor costs almost nothing. Ian. ",12 "Re: Half-page hand scanners? The Logitech ScanMan 32 is a nice unit, compact and effective it will bring in graphics with surprisingly good quality. Note that its effective resolution in grey scale mode is only about 72 dpi. If you don't intend to magnify a graphic, it works fine. A true 256 level gray scanner would work better for images. I've seen the ScanMan go for as little as $100 used. It is a reasonable buy at that price. Higher end hand scanners are almost as expensive as used flat bed scanners. Here is Seattle, the paper shows occasional good bargains in the classifieds. Used color flat beds have been seen as lows as $500 lately. Grey scale flatbeds come in around $300-$350. ",4 "Re: Speeding ticket from CHP Interesting. I'd fight the ticket. First off, there's a 50/50 chance the cop won't show up. Secondly, if he does show up, you should point out that he lied (purgered) on the ticket. Why 70+? I beleive that if yo're charged with going more than 15mph that the posted speed it's a more severe ticket. You couldn't have p[ossibly been going 70+, right?! -- | max@queernet.org | Max J. Rochlin | {uunet,sgi}!unpc!max | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Protect me from what I want... | ",8 "Re: Passive Mixer shaffer-wendy@yale.edu (Wendy Shaffer) writes: >I'm trying to build a mixer for a friend of mine to run several things into >a single boom box. I have a circuit that uses an op-amp powered by either a >couple of 9V batteries or using some kind of power supply. But in a catalog >I was looking at recently, a ""passive mixer"" for guitar was advertised taht >doesn't appear to use any power at all. Does anyone know what the circuit for >this would be, because then I could just adapt it for RCA jacks, and save my >friend and I alot of messing with batteries and plugs. Thanks. Well, the fastest, crudest mixer (aside from just physically connecting all your inputs together directly) is to run each signal through a resistor to a common output. The resistors give some isolation so the signal sources aren't driving directly into each other. Taking a wild, seat-of-the-pants guess, I'd say that if you are mixing high-impedance sources like some dynamic mikes, electric guitar pickups, etc., your resistors ought to be maybe 5K - 10K or so. If you are mixing line-level stuff or the outputs of a Walkman, or such, I'd go with 1K. input 1 --/\/\/\/ -------------+--- output | input 2 --/\/\/\/\-------------+ | input 3 --/\/\/\/\-------------+ -- paul marxhausen .... ....... ............. ............ ............ .......... .. . . . . . university of nebraska - lincoln . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . grace . . . . . . . . . . . . happens . ",12 "Re: Countersteering_FAQ please post In article , mjs@sys.uea.ac.uk (Mike Sixsmith) writes: |> |> Formal training is in my view absolutely essential if you're going to |> be able to ride a bike properly and safely. But by including countersteering |> theory in newbie courses we are confusing people unnecessarily, right at |> the time when there are *far* more important matters for them to learn. |> And that was my original point. |> |> Mike While I agree with you on that formal training is essential for safe riding, I disagree strongly with your original point. The point of formal training must be to prepare riders for the road. Preparedness is in my opinion to know as much as possible. So, to exclude some aspects of riding a bike in a course is wrong IMHO. Now to countersteering in particular. Countersteering is something that must be trained. A common reaction among new bikers (or bicycle riders) in an emergency situation, is to steer the motorcycle like a bicycle. As we know this makes the motorcycle go in the direction opposite to what was intended. Needless to say, this is dangerous. I have a specific example: A rider in a left turn. The rider thinks he/she is to close to the right shoulder of the road, and tries to steer the motorcycle to the left by pulling the left handle and pushing the right handle. The motorcycle straightens up and goes off the road. A worse scenario: The same rider, same turn. In the middle of the turn the rider sees a truck coming towards him/her. The panicking rider tries to steer the motorcycle away from the truck and crashes right into it. The main function of a riding course is to teach how to avoid emergency situations, AND what to do if in one. Thus, the knowledge (and training) of countersteering is IMHO a must in any riding course. -- staal@idt.unit.no ",8 "THE ENEMY WITHIN THE ENEMY WITHIN ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ By Robert I. Friedman The Village Voice, May 11, 1993, Vol. XXXVIII No. 19 | How The Anti-Defamation League Turned the Notion | | of Human Rights on Its Head, Spying on Progress- | | ives and Funneling Information to Law Enforcement | Roy Bullock wanted to be a spy since he was a teenager in Indiana and read ""I Led Three Lives,"" Herbert Philbrick's Cold War saga of penetrating the Communist Party for the FBI. Philbrick had become an American folk hero in the 1950s for building dossiers on unsuspecting colleagues. It was a time when Hollywood produced more than 30 films portraying the informer as the quintessential American patriot. In Boston, where Philbrick led three lives as an FBI informant, Communist Party member, and private citizen, the mayor even proclaimed a Herbert Philbrick Day and presented the spy with a plaque. For Bullock, a shy young man who was coming to terms with his homosexuality in the straight-arrow '50s, the life of a double agent was the perfect way to hide his lifestyle while fighting the Communist menace. ""I was fascinated with Herbert Philbrick,"" Bullock recently told federal investigators, ""and so I thought I would try to infiltrate the Communist Part. In 1957, I went to the Sixth World Youth and Student Festival in Moscow with the American delegation. I gave them [the FBI a full report on it when I returned, along with some photos I took of some Soviet military vehicles."" Bullock was hooked. For the next two years, he worked as an unpaid informant for the FBI. But he found his true calling when he became a paid spy for the Anti-Defamation League in 1960. Now his activities are at the center of the biggest domestic spy scandal in recent American history -- a scandal that may end with the ADL's criminal indictment in San Francisco. Over a 30-year period, he compiled computer files for the ADL on 9876 individuals and more than 950 groups of all political stripes, including the NAACP, the Rainbow Coalition, ACLU, the American Indian Movement, the Center for Investigative Reporting, Pacifica, ACT UP, Palestinian and Arab groups, Sandinista solidarity groups, Americans for Peace Now, and anti-apartheid organizations. Bullock, who even spied on the recently slain South African nationalist Chris Hani when he visited the Bay Area in April 1991, sold many of his ADL files on anti-apartheid activists to South African intelligence. Meanwhile, between 1985 and 1993, the ADL paid him nearly $170,000, using a prominent Beverly Hills attorney as a conduit in order to conceal its financial relationship with Bullock. Last month, police raided ADL offices in Los Angeles and San Francisco, as well as Bullock's home, confiscating computer files and boxes of documents. According to court records, Bullock's files contained the driver's license and vehicle registration information, in addition to criminal histories on individuals -- much of which was allegedly stolen from the FBI and police computers. Bullock, 58, told the FBI that copies of virtually everything in his computer data base had been given to the San Francisco ADL office. ""Based on the evidence,"" says Inspector Ron Roth, in a police affidavit, ""I believe that Roy Bullock and ADL had numerous peace officers supplying them with confidential criminal and DMV information."" What's more, the San Francisco D.A. is investigating Bullock for tapping phones, accessing answering machines, and assuming false identities to infiltrate organizations. Documents seized from Bullock's home also contained evidence of his forays into Bay Area trash cans: He had the names and phone numbers of employees at the Christic Institute in San Francisco, as well as telephone message slips to staff members (including names and phone numbers of callers), office correspondence listing the names and return addresses of the senders, and inter-office memos. He also had receipts from Christic Institute's bank accounts at Wells Fargo and Eureka Federal Savings, as well as itemized canceled checks with the names of the payees, the dates, and amounts. Bullock even knew the balance in the Christic Institute's checking account. Investigations by the FBI and police in San Francisco have revealed that the ADL has shared at least some of its spy gathering material with Israeli government officials. What's more, Israel apparently used tips from the ADL to detain Palestinian Americans who travelled there. * * * The ADL was established in New York City in 1913 to defend Jews, and later other minority groups, from discrimination. It led the fight against racist and fascist groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party, and in the 1960s championed the civil rights movement. But there was also a darker side. In the late 1940s, the ADL spied on leftists and Communists, and shared investigative files with the House Committee on Un-American Activities and the FBI. The ADL swung sharply to the right during the Reagan administration, becoming a bastion of neoconservatism. To Irwin Suall, a repentant Trotskyite who heads the ADL's powerful Fact Finding Department, the real danger to Jews is posed not by the right -- but by a coalition of leftists, blacks, and Arabs, who in his view threaten the fabric of democracy in America, as well as the state of Israel. In the tradition of his ideological soulmate William Casey, Suall directed the ADL's vast network of informants, who were given code names like ""Scumbag,"" ""Ironside,"" and -- for a spy reportedly posing as a priest in Atlanta -- ""Flipper."" For years, journalists and liberal members of the Jewish community knew the ADL spied on right-wing hate groups. As long as the targets were anti-Semitic organizations like the Liberty Lobby and Lyndon Larouche, no one seemed to be particularly troubled. But the Bullock case reveals that the ADL also spied on groups that have a nonviolent, and progressive orientation. This apparent massive violation of civil liberties may end with the ADL's criminal indictment in San Francisco, where the investigation began. The human rights group faces possible criminal prosecution on as many as 48 felony counts, including an indictment for gaining illegal access to police computers. Says one source close to the West Coast investigation, ""It is 99 per cent certain that the ADL will be indicted."" In the wake of the San Francisco investigation, police probes of ADL spying are spreading to other parts of the country. ""We have received numerous complaints about ADL [spying],"" says Sam Adams, a spokesperson for the mayor's office in Portland, Oregon. On April 16, the Harlem-based Black United Fund of New York, and African American self-help group that Bullock allegedly spied on, wrote District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, requesting ""an immediate investigation"" of the ADL. ""The ADL's actions cause great concern, as it is a direct and flagrant violation -- at minimum -- of our civil rights....We call upon you to join with the District Attorney of San Francisco to...bring and end to this latest form of McCarthyism."" Gerald McKelvey, a spokesperson for Morgenthau's office, says, ""We have no evidence before us that warrants any sort of investigation."" McKelvey adds that Morgenthau offered to assist the FBI and the San Francisco D.A.'s office on their pending investigation. ""They have not, so far, asked for our assistance."" The ADL acknowledges sharing information on violence-prone groups with law enforcement officials. It also admits to maintaining extensive files on a wide variety of organizations, but says, in a two-page press release, ""The vast majority of ADL's files are composed of news clips, magazine articles, books, journals, and other documents...."" ""ADL has made it clear that it does not and will not countenance violations of the law on the part of anyone connected with the agency, and the process by which the League gathers information is presently under review to insure that no laws are being violated."" That's what the ADL says for public consumption. But morale is so low that its employees complain of sleepless nights and crying fits. And even as other Jewish groups circle the wagons around the ADL in a show of solidarity, many do so holding their noses. More than a few Jewish officials privately say the ADL has to decide whether it is a human rights group or a secret police agency. ""The ADL is regarded both inside the Jewish community and outside the Jewish community as the definitive source of information on anti- Semitism and extremist groups,"" says Daniel Levitas, the former executive director of the Center for Democratic Renewal, an Atlanta- based group that monitors anti-Semitism, racism, and hate groups. ""One of the things this scandal has done is that it has completely tainted the ADL's credibility and reputation with regard to its objectivity. This scandal is going to be a devastating blow to the Jewish community at large because people regard the ADL as synonymous with American Jewry."" * * * Bullock's talents as a snoop and his extreme conservatism meshed well with the ADL's Cold War worldview. In 1960, he moved to Southern California where he became an ADL spy for $75.00 a week. Bullock almost always used his real name when snooping, although he once called himself Elmer Fink when corresponding with supporters of Alabama governor George Wallace. Bullock provided the ADL's office in Los Angeles with written reports, which were transmitted to Fact Finding Department head Irwin Suall, according to court records. Under Suall's stewardship, Fact Finding Department had become the ADL's heart and soul. Located at ADL national headquarters across from the United Nations, the department had assembled a vast library on ""hate groups,"" culling material from publications, speeches, and informants reports. Bullock was more than adept at leading a double life. Not long after moving to California, he ingratiated himself with a woman in the John Birch Society who helped him gain access to the group's Boston office. There, he found a file the right-wingers were keeping on the ADL. The discovery gave rise to speculation in the ADL New York office that they had somehow been penetrated by the Birchers. Bullock focused almost exclusively on right-wing extremist groups until the early 1970s when ADL L.A. head Milton Sinn was replaced by Harvey Schechter, who encouraged him to target the left as well. A few years later, Bullock moved to the Castro District in San Francisco where he posed as an art dealer. And ADL fact finder who had infiltrated the local Arab community had just been exposed. When the ensuing scandal died down, Bullock was ordered by the ADL to penetrate the Arabs. The ADL was especially concerned about the American-Arab Anti- Discrimination Committee, founded by the former South Dakota senator James Abourezk to combat Arab-bashing. In a page out of the CIA's dirty tricks handbook on penetration and destabilization, Bullock joined the ADC, and then recruited Nazis into the group, apparently trying to discredit it, according to published reports. In 1987, the ADL sent Bullock to attend the National Association of Arab Americans annual congress in Washington. According to court documents, Bullock was told to find the source of the group's funds. Bullock was unable to ""follow the money."" But he did such a good job at ingratiating himself that he was appointed to head a NAAA delegation that visited Congress member Nancy Pelosi. It's not surprising that the ADL penetrated Arab organizations. But only acute paranoia explains their interest in groups like ACT UP. As far as Bullock was concerned, gay groups in San Francisco were heavily infiltrated by what he called ""gay left revolutionaries,"" prompting him to write about their activities for the ADL. Bullock soon expanded his horizons, moving into the shadowy realm of foreign espionage after Richard Hirschhaut, the head of ADL's San Francisco office, introduced him to Thomas Gerard in 1986. Gerard was then a detective with the San Francisco Police Department's Intelligence Unit. Gerard had worked as a demolitions expert for the CIA in El Salvador in the early 1980s, where he apparently had more than a passing interest in right-wing death squads. (Police searching Gerard's briefcase found extensive CIA literature about torture and interrogation, photos of blindfolded and chained men, as well as passports made out to Gerard in 10 different names, including Thomas Clouseau. From a remote jungle island redoubt in the Philippines where he fled last November, Gerard told the Los Angeles Times that he will blow the lid off the CIA's involvement with Latin American death squads if he is indicted in the ADL spy case.) After their very first encounter in the ADL office, Gerard and Bullock had lunch at McDonald's, ""I liked Tom right off,"" Bullock later told a San Francisco police investigator whose report of the interrogation was obtained by the _Voice_. ""Tom is a very charming, roguish character, with a great deal of integrity. Let me say here, I consider Tom Gerard one of the finest policemen I've ever worked with, absolutely. Honest, capable, intelligent and 100 percent American."" Before long, Bullock was providing Gerard with confidential ADL reports on various groups and individuals. In turn, Gerard gave Bullock classified police intelligence files on local Arab Americans, skinheads, and others. Bullock told the FBI that Gerard's material ended up in his ADL reports. ""I would say 99 percent of the data that I got was name, address, and sometimes physical description. Criminal history, very rarely,"" Bullock told investigators. Gerard also gave Bullock a chart that outlined a vast network of Bay Area Arab American businessmen and organizations that allegedly has ties to Middle East terror groups, as well as surveillance photos of Arab Americans receiving weapons training overseas. Bullock claims that U.S. Customs in New York gave Gerard the photos. ""It was understood that Bullock would be very careful with what he did with the information Gerard gave him, and that Bullock would not release it except to the ADL or other law enforcement officers,"" says an FBI report. There was nothing unusual about Bullock's cozy relationship with law enforcement. By the mid-1980s, the ADL was swapping files with hundreds of ""official friends,"" the organization's euphemism for U.S. law enforcement and intelligence sources. The ADL's relationship with the FBI's counterterrorism office was so close that ADL's reports on Arab American group's covert ties to Middle East terrorists were ""must reading."" It's no accident that police found a 1986 classified FBI report entitled ""Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)--New York Area"" while searching the ADL's San Francisco office. In 1987, ADL spooks investigated seven Palestinians and a Kenyan studying in California universities on student visas. When the ADL discovered they were disseminating PFLP literature, it informed the FBI, which in turn took the case to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. After the INS ordered the students deported as subversives, ADL regional director David Lehrer gloated in the _Los Angeles Times_ about his office's cooperation with law enforcement, although he's backpedaling now. The ""Los Angeles 8"" deportation is still under appeal. * * * While the ADL worked quietly with America's top cops, it enjoyed similar ties with Israel's spy agencies -- a charge that ADL leaders vehemently deny. But as early as July 7, 1961, ADL director Benjamin Epstein wrote to B'nai B'rith executive secretary Saul Joftes, requesting $25,000 for his investigators. ""Our information,"" he boasted to Joftes, ""in addition to being essential for our own operations, has been of great value and service to both the United States Department and the Israeli Government. All data have been made available to both countries with full knowledge to each that we are the source."" In 1987, the ADL came under FBI scrutiny in the wake of the Pollard spy scandal. While assigned to the Navy's Anti-Terrorist Alert Center, where he had access to the most closely guarded U.S. secrets, Jonathan Pollard stole thousands of pages of classified documents for Israel, which, according to federal prosecutors, ""could fill a room the size of a large closet...ten feet by six feet by six feet."" Pollard's handler was Avi Sella, an Israeli air force colonel whose wife worked for the New York ADL as a lawyer. Pollard later wrote to friends that a prominent ADL leader was deeply involved in the Israeli spy operation. While there is no proof that anyone connected with the ADL was involved with Pollard, there is evidence that the ADL freely passes information to Israeli intelligence. In March 1993, the FBI interrogated David Gurvitz, an ADL fact finder in Los Angeles until 1992 when he was fired by Suall for illegally obtaining police information to use against a rival at the Simon Wiesenthal Center. The FBI pointedly asked Gurvitz if he had ever transmitted information to Israel. Gurvitz admitted that in 1992 he had learned from a law enforcement contact that Michael Elias, allegedly a member of a radical PLO faction, was scheduled to travel from San Francisco International Airport en route to Haifa. Gurvitz phoned the deputy Israeli consul general in L.A. with the information. ""Later the same day,"" according to a 15-page FBI interview of Gurvitz obtained by the _Voice_, ""Gurvitz was called back by another man, who said he was from the Israeli Consulate, and who asked Gurvitz to repeat the information about Elias. Gurvitz did not get this man's name, but their conversation was in Hebrew so Gurvitz felt confident the man was actually an Israeli Consulate official."" Among the 12,000 names of private citizens that police found in ADL files in San Francisco was Mohammed Jarad, a 36-year-old Chicago resident who was arrested in Israel on January 25, for allegedly distributing hundreds of thousands of dollars to Hamas, the large Islamic fundamentalist movement in the Occupied Territories. The Chicago ADL office runs at least three undercover informants who work with ""official friends"" in local law enforcement, according to documents released by the San Francisco D.A. and sources close to the ADL. Given these facts, Arab American groups surmise that the ADL has passed information on Jarad to Israeli intelligence. One technique used by the ADL to monitor the large Arab American community in the Midwest was to scan the local Arab press for funeral notices. According to sources familiar with the practice, ADL investigators in unmarked vans videotaped the Palestinian funerals, which sometimes turned into PLO rallies. Palestinians have been detained at Ben-Gurion Airport simply on the basis of having been filmed attending a funeral in Chicago, according to Suhail Miari, the executive director of the United Holy Land Fund, whose cousin was an Arab member of Israel's Knesset. Shortly after Jarad was arrested, the Israeli government announced that Hamas was being run from America with money and operational instructions relayed by courier or fax. Israel's charges were played up on the front page of _The New York Times_. According to well- placed sources, Yehudit Barsky, an ADL fact finder in New York, worked closely with Israeli officials on this campaign of vilification, introducing ""friendly"" reporters to ""official friends"" in Chicago law enforcement. Barsky, who is fluent in Arabic, prepared an ADL report about how Hamas is funded in America. She identified the Dallas-based Islamic association for Palestine in North America as the front organization for Hamas in the U.S.A. ""Its infrastructure functions as an interlocking network of organizations, small businesses, and individual activists,"" says the February 1993 ADL report, which outlines the organization's development, its activities on U.S. college campuses, and its ""metamorphosis"" during the Gulf War. It also traces Hamas fundraising through a plethora of alleged front- groups from Plainfield, Indiana, to Culver City, California. It is doubtful that Barsky could have compiled such sophisticated data without the help of ""official friends"" and ADL spies. Barsky refused to comment. But she used to talk to Greg Slabodkin as many as three times a week when he was an opposition researcher for AIPAC, whose spy operation was disclosed last summer in the _Voice_. ""The level of cooperation was very close,"" Slabodkin said during a recent phone conservation from Israel where he is in graduate school. ""If we felt our files were lacking, we contacted the ADL."" When Sha'wan Jabarin, a 30-year-old Palestinian human rights worker in the Occupied Territories won a $25,000 Reebok Human Rights Award in 1990, Slabodkin recalls that Barsky faxed AIPAC the man's entire police file, which she had obtained from the Israeli embassy. Jabarin had been arrested numerous times in Israel, and once confessed to being a member of the PLO after having been severely tortured. Jabarin, who received a short jail term, became an Amnesty International Prisoner of Conscience. Of course, to AIPAC and the ADL, Jabarin was a terrorist. Slabodkin, who was ordered to keep tabs on him when he was in the U.S. to receive his award, called a representative of Al Haq, the Palestinian human rights group that employed Jabarin, to obtain his itinerary. AIPAC even opened a file on musician Jackson Browne, who presented Jabarin with the Reebok award. While the ADL may be able to rationalize its close monitoring of Arabs, and even left-wing gay revolutionaries, it has a far harder time explaining its obsession with spying on anti-apartheid activists. David Gurvitz told the FBI that when he started working as a fact finder for the ADL in L.A. in March 1989, ADL files already bulged with information about the Israel-South African connection and anti- apartheid groups. ""Gurvitz confirmed that the ADL did routinely collect information on persons engaged in anti-apartheid activities in the United States,"" says the FBI report. While Gurvitz said there were files in the L.A. ADL office dating to the 1930s, he estimated the oldest material on anti-apartheid activities dates back to the late 1970s, paralleling Begin's rise to power in Israel and a deepening of ties between the Jewish state and South Africa. ""In about August, 1992,"" says the report of the FBI's March 3, 1993, interview with Gurvitz, ""an anti-apartheid demonstration was held at the South African Consulate in Los Angeles. Participating in the demonstration were the Los Angeles Student Coalition and the Socialist Workers Party. Gurvitz went to two demonstration planning sessions, and a subsequent demonstration. He wrote a report for the ADL on each of the planning sessions and on the demonstration. Copies of the reports were disseminated to Bullock, among others, in care of the San Francisco ADL office."" In 1986 Bullock learned that the consul general of the South African Consulate in Los Angeles would be speaking in Las Vegas at a meeting organized by Willis Carto, the head of the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby. ""Suspecting that the Consul General did not know who Willis Carto is,"" says the FBI report, ""Bullock suggested to Gerard that they might want to warn the South Africans. Gerard agreed and informed the Consul General, who canceled his appearance."" A few months later, Gerard phoned Bullock and told him a South African intelligence officer wanted to meet them. During a rendezvous in a hotel near Fisherman's Wharf, the South African said he was interested in acquiring information on American anti-apartheid activists. The South African, who called himself Mr. Humphries, also asked for information about groups that were advocating divestments. ""Gerard, who was present throughout the meeting,"" says the FBI report, ""told Humphries that he [Gerard] had been employed by the CIA....Humphries offered to pay Bullock $150.00 per month in exchange for information. Bullock noted that much of the information Humphries said he wanted was already in the possession of Bullock and the ADL."" Between 1987 and 1991, Bullock sold information to South African intelligence, receiving steady raises, which he split evenly with Gerard. ""Bullock said it was his impression, though Gerard never explicitly told him so, (and Bullock never asked) that Gerard may have been telling the CIA about his and Bullock's contacts with the South Africans,"" says the FBI report. ""Gerard had said he knew the CIA 'resident agent' in San Francisco....Once, after Gerard dropped Bullock off at Bullock's residence following a meeting with Louie [who replaced Humphries as their handler], Gerard said he was going to go to the San Francisco CIA office."" Al the while, Gerard may have been ""tasking"" Bullock for the CIA. ""Bullock recalled that once, after he had met Gerard, Bullock went to Chicago, Illinois to conduct an investigation on behalf of the ADL,"" says the FBI report. ""The target of the investigation was a group called the Palestine Human Rights Campaign. Bullock learned that a woman [name deleted] was transporting money between the PLO or the PFLP, and the United States. Bullock told this to Gerard. Gerard later told Bullock that Gerard's 'guy at the CIA' would like to know more. Gerard asked Bullock if Bullock would go back to Chicago to gather more information on the Palestine Human Rights Campaign. Bullock, however, never did go back."" Gerard also seems to have had a close relationship with Mossad, which may have started in 1991 when he went on an ADL junket to Israel. The ADL frequently sponsors trips for American law enforcement officials to Israel, where they are wined and dined and meet their counterparts in various intelligence agencies. According to an affidavit by San Francisco police inspector Roth, the ""all-expense paid trip [to Israel] was more or less a thank-you gift and a liaison gesture by the ADL to continue the close relationships it has with specific law enforcement officers from the United States."" Gerard may have liked what he saw in Israel. A short time after travelling there, he went to Addis Ababa where he helped with Mossad's rescue of Ethiopian Jews. As Gerard's relationship with South Africa deepened, he talked more openly about his exploits in the CIA. ""Bullock recalled Gerard mentioning that he had been in Algeria on CIA business, and that Gerard discussed the PLO and 'safehouses,'"" says the FBI report, ""To this Louie once responded that Israeli intelligence had determined that the PLO and the African National Congress were cooperating. Gerard also spoke of having travelled with the CIA to Afghanistan.... Louie also [told Gerard and Bullock] about his adventures inside South Africa as an intelligence officer. Both Gerard and Louie traded 'war stories' and regaled each other and Bullock with tales of 'narrow scrapes.'"" Although there is still much mystery about what triggered law enforcement's investigation of the ADL, it was probably the theft of a classified FBI report on the Nation of Islam from the FBI's San Francisco office. Police armed with search warrants recovered the report in the ADL San Francisco office. Gurvitz says he had sent a copy of it to Mira Boland, the director of the ADL's fact finding division in Washington, D.C. Boland was preparing an op-ed piece for _The Washington Times_, in which she argued that the Nation of Islam should not receive federal funds for the reconstruction of L.A. because the group is anti-Semitic and violence-prone. (Boland, who had arranged the ADL police junket to Israel attended by Gerard, testified in a 1990 criminal trial in Roanoke, Virginia, that she had worked for the CIA for 14 months and later was a subcontractor for the Defense Department before joining the ADL. During the trial, Boland admitted to sharing information with a CIA official at an invitation- only ADL conference.) After he was questioned by the FBI last fall, Gerard fled to the Philippines, which has no extradition treaty with America. Gerard is believed to have supplied information from police computers not only to the ADL, but to Israel and South Africa as well. The _San Francisco Examiner_ reported that Gerard may be charged with violating federal espionage laws. Although Bullock worked for the ADL for 30 years, and Irwin Suall praised him in a July 1992 memo as ""our number one investigator,"" the ADL now argues that he was a rogue agent. In its own defense, the ADL also asserts that its fact finders operate no differently than journalists. After all, ask ADL officials, don't journalists keep files? But the difference between the practice of journalism and the ADL's method of gathering information couldn't be more striking. Journalists place information in the public domain where they are held accountable for falsehoods, distortions, and libel. And for the most part, journalists don't share their investigative files with foreign and domestic police agencies. The ADL has no such inhibition. Because many of its files are not open to public scrutiny, false information collected by ideologically biased researchers cannot be corrected. Once a proud human rights group, the ADL has become the Jewish thought police. ""The ADL says it's a human rights group not just for Jews but for everyone,"" says Chip Berlet, a highly respected researcher at the Massachusetts-based Political Research Associates, which monitors right-wing extremist groups. ""That's fine but it can't do that and spy on Palestinians. It's blatantly unethical and frankly immoral."" ""My argument to people is that the ADL wears four hats. Each of the hats independently is appropriate. It is a broad-based human rights group that looks at the broad issues of prejudice and discrimination. It is a group that defends Jews against defamation. Entirely noble. Nothing wrong with that hat. It is a group, whose leaders, at least, consistently defend the actions of Israel against its critics, which again is entirely appropriate. And it is a group that maintains an information-sharing arrangement with law enforcement. Again, there is nothing wrong for a group to do that."" ""But you can't do all four. It is impossible to do all four and not violate the bounds of ethics. There's a built-in conflict of interest if you wear all four hats."" ADL national director Abraham Foxman apparently sees no such conflict. In a September 1, 1992, letter to the _Voice_, Foxman complained: ""ADL has a proud 80-year record of fighting bigotry and promoting civil rights and constitutional freedoms. Any imputation of an effort or motive on our part to smear or stifle the free speech of anyone is false and baseless"" ""Throughout his pieces [on AIPAC's spying], Friedman describes the dissemination of information as if it were slander, and the existence of files as a token of McCarthyite inclination. The depiction is misleading in several ways. Virtually every journalist, academic, politician and organization keeps files on subjects they deem relevant; tracing the logic of Friedman's reckless charges, the Library of Congress is tantamount to the KGB. Moreover, disseminating the public record of a public figure is neither defamation nor McCarthyism."" But many believe the ADL is increasingly in the defamation business. Ask Jesse Jackson, James Abourezk, or the leaders of the New Jewish Agenda -- all past targets of ADL smears. (At the same time, the ADL exonerated the fascist World Anti-Communist League, which assisted Ronald Reagan's covert war against Nicaragua, a policy endorsed by ADL leaders.) In the early 1980s, researchers Russ Bellant and Berlet asked to meet fact finding head Irwin Suall, to discuss their work on anti-Semite Lyndon LaRouche. ""Our view then of Irwin Suall was that he was this really terrific investigator,"" says Berlet. ""So we introduce ourselves, say what we are up to and Suall leans back in his chair and basically runs down a dossier on each of us: about what our political activities are, who we work with, what organizations we belong to. Obviously, he was just trying to blow us away and he succeeds admirably. We were just sitting there with our mouths open feeling very uncomfortable."" ""And then he leans forward and says, 'The right-wing isn't the problem. The left-wing is the problem. The Soviet Union is the biggest problem in the world for Jews. It's the American left that is the biggest threat to American Jews. You're on the wrong track. You're part of the problem.' We were stunned. I was virtually in tears. This is not how I perceived myself. We basically stumbled out of there in a daze."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Letters (response to Friedman's article) The Village Voice, May 18, 1993, Vol. XXXVIII No. 20 A LEAGUE OF HIS OWN Robert I. Friedman's assault on the Anti-Defamation League [The Anti- Defamation League Is Spying On You."" May 11] demonstrates that he has an axe to grind and his own prejudiced and biased agenda to promote. It also demonstrates that concern for accurate reporting is far down on his list. The story is replete with inaccuracies, innuendos, and outright falsehoods, and conveys a picture of ADL so divorced from reality as to be farcical. Friedman is even wrong on such basic, easily determined facts as where ADL was founded (Chicago, not New York) and the building in which ADL'S San Francisco office is located (not the Jewish Community Federation building pictured). ADL has done the work of fighting haters for 80 years, without ""spying"" on organizations or individuals and with profound respect for the law. Our mission is to monitor and expose those who are anti- Jewish, racist, anti-democratic, and violence-prone, and we monitor them primarily by reading publications and attending public meetings. Through the years, we have published scores of reports on anti- Semitism emanating from both the left and the right. In fact, although Friedman's bias leads him to assume the contrary, ADL's primary concern is still the far right. Because extremist organizations are highly secretive, sometimes ADL can learn of their activities only by using undercover sources. Friedman's hyperbole notwithstanding, these sources function in a manner directly analogous to investigative journalists. Some have performed great service to the American people -- for example, by uncovering the existence of right-wing extremist paramilitary training camps -- with no recognition and at considerable personal risk. The information ADL obtains is placed in the public domain, and through the years ADL has established a reputation for accurate reporting. Friedman's article, by contrast, contains so much misinformation that it would take an article equally as long to set the record straight. A few examples: He states that an ""ADL leader was deeply involved in the [Jonathan Pollard] Israeli spy operation,"" and that Pollard's handler's wife ""worked for the New York ADL as a lawyer."" Not true. Friedman also states: ""ADL investigators in unmarked vans videotaped Palestinian funerals."" Not true. Elsewhere, he asserts that ADL was obsessed ""with spying on anti-apartheid activists."" Again, not true. We could go on and on -- and, of course, Friedman does not reveal *his* sources. The distortion games Friedman plays when he mentions numbers further reveal his lack of objectivity. When it comes to how much ADL paid Roy Bullock a week -- as an independent contractor, not an employee (an important distinction Friedman also fails to make) -- he includes the zeros ($75.00, $150.00), inviting the reader to see a large number. By contrast, when he observes that ADL paid Bullock ""nearly $170,000"" between 1985 and 1993, he chooses not to point out that amounts to little more than $20,000 a year -- hardly an excessive sum. What is accurate about Friedman's story is Chip Berlet's description of ADL's four hats. Yes, ADL looks at broad issues of prejudice and discrimination. Yes, ADL defends Israel against critics. And yes, ADL maintains an information-sharing relationship with law enforcement regarding extremist activities and hate crimes. We see no conflict in these four activities, and we believe most _Voice_ readers won't either. ABRAHAM FOXMAN National Director Anti-Defamation League Manhattan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ROBERT I. FRIEDMAN REPLIES: For the ADL to compare itself to investigative journalists is absurd. Journalists don't spy on Arabs and anti-apartheid activists and then freely pass their files to South African and Israeli intelligence. But according to police the confessions of two paid ADL investigators, buttressed by 700 pages of court documents and interviews, the ADL does. Indeed, the ADL spies on groups that are neither anti-Semitic nor violent. Police confiscated ADL files on hundreds of mainstream groups ranging from ACT UP to Peace Now. Respected intellectuals and Middle East scholars who disagree with the ADL's political views have ended up on ADL blacklists, their reputations smeared. ""Private organizations have no business paying operatives inside police departments or having spies,"" says an April 17 editorial in the _St. Louis Post-Dispatch_, condemning ADL spying. On April 10, police armed with search warrants raided ADL offices in San Francisco and L.A. after concluding that ""ADL employees were apparently less than truthful"" in voluntarily turning over documents during an earlier search, according to San Francisco police inspector Ron Roth's sworn affidavit. Roth also asserts that Bullock was a ""paid employee for the ADL."" If so, by failing to pay taxes on $170,000 of income paid to Bullock, the ADL could face a total of 48 felony counts, according to court papers. The ADL may also face felony charges for illegally obtaining confidential information from police computers. As for errors: The ADL was founded in Chicago, and moved to New York in 1947. But it was an original tenant in the San Francisco building shown in the _Voice_ photo, moving out a few months ago. I never wrote that an ""ADL leader was deeply involved in the [Pollard] Israeli spy operation."" I reported that Pollard himself made the charge. And in court papers, Pollard's own lawyer said that the wife of Pollard's handler worked for the ADL. If I have a bias, it is on the side of the First and Fourth Amendments. ",17 "Wirtz is a weenie So what's the deal with Bill Wirtz? Apparently, the Blackhawks - St. Louis game was a standing room only sell out as usual, but the Hawks reported the attendace as 16,199. Gee, I wonder if Wirtz is planning to use this as justification for continuing to keep home games off of TV? What a schmuck. In other TV news, the Penguins announced yesterday that they will have 3 fewer broadcast TV games, and will have 22(!) games on some sort of subscription / pay-per-view system. Yuck. Ralph ",10 "Bowman whining already I should have guessed. It's time for the annual Pittsburgh Penguins whine-a-thon. Bowman was complaning about cheap shots by the Devils in Game 1. I'm sorry, Mr. Bowman, you're a great coach, but those ""cheap shots"" were nothing compared to what's going to come. Also, I guess you were only able to notice the cheap shots made by the guys not in white. It's amazing what those black and gold colored glasses will do. PS - Nice dive on that high stick Mario. Everyone knew it was a high stick, you could have stayed on your feet and saved your diving talent for later. just stirring it up a bit, Ralph ",10 "Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???) In article <9833@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> lovall@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. Lovall) writes: >In article CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie) writes: > >..... > >>However, if I were to design a BMW's electronics, I will use a counter to >>count the number of times the car passed 1 million miles (or whatever), and >>store it in the car computer's memory. This could be read when doing a >>diagnostics test. Ditto for the date of the odometer. As easy as this is, I >>don't know why manafucturers don't do it (don't they?) to prevent illegal >>odometer tampering. >> >>But as a previous writer said, it will in any case take aeons to reset an >>odometer, mechanic or electronic by simulating a driving car. It will be >>easier to reprogram it. How, I don't know. > >It shouldn't be THAT hard if you know much about digital electronics. If the >counter is made with standard TTL chips, all you should need to do is find >the chip(s) used for counting, figure out what mileage you want to put in, >and preset it but wiring the preset pins directly to low/high (you'd also have >to know what the conventions are for low and high). It might be a little more >involved than this, but it shouldn't be beyond someone with a BSEE or BS EET. >All the display does is convert what the counter chips say into digits using >a ""translation table"" stored in ROM. > >selah, > >Dan > But, those chips are probably inside a custom chip, (to make it smaller and use less power) and the preset/data pins are not going to be available. It would probably not be TTL but might be CMOS (wider operating voltage range), not that the tecnology would make much difference. Plus the custom chip would probably be potted (encapsulated with epoxy). Good luck. -- --garyl------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""Any shark that gets to be 11 or 12 feet long with 300 big teeth can be considered dangerous"" - 'Shark Bowl '92' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",7 "Life on Mars??? I know it's only wishful thinking, with our current President, but this is from last fall: ""Is there life on Mars? Maybe not now. But there will be."" -- Daniel S. Goldin, NASA Administrator, 24 August 1992 -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 ""The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything."" -- Edward John Phelps, American Diplomat/Lawyer (1825-1895) ",14 "Re: Pressure Zone Microphones In article <1rjobdINNk1s@crcnis1.unl.edu> mpaul@unl.edu (marxhausen paul) writes: >I remember, back before commercial mikes with the ""PZM"" label (for >Pressure Zone Microphone) started showing up, I read an article, >in some engineering journal, that described the principles involved. >All the physics aside, from a practicle standpoint the author's said >they built a prototype with nothing more than a small Sony lavelier >mike laid up against a large aluminum disk. In demonstrating it at >a presentation to audio engineers, this was impressive enough that >the people present were bugging them about where they could buy them. Yup, it's not all that difficult to do. >Anyway...I want to build some to use as ""choir mikes"" (wide coverage). >I've had good luck using some small electret mike elements I got >from Digi-Key - most of these are limited-bandwidth, peakey units >but for a buck or two more I got the ones spec'd to go out to 20kHz >with a bit flatter response. The Panasonic cartridges aren't bad, but they aren't spectacular. >The distance of the mike opening from the flat plate is kind of >critical. I'm debating whether to mount it on it's side, which >puts the opening a shade under 2mm from the plate, or mounting >it with the opening actually pointing down into the plate at a >small clearance. I haven't dissected a unit like you can buy at >Radio Shack to see how they do it. Thoughts? Don't mount it on the side. Call up Crown, the company that has the patent on the PZM, and ask them for information on construction and use of the things. You may have to determine the correct spacing emperically with a noise source and a spectrum analyzer because the design of the Panasonic cartridges uses a tuned cavity in front of the electret element to increase the high frequency response, and you are going to be altering the resistance through the cavity entrance. Crown has a nice book on the subject, though it's unfortunately rather short on mathematics. There's a JAES article from many years back, too. Still, for your application, you'll be a lot better off buying the cheap Radio Shack models and using Phil Rastoczny's modifications to get a clean balanced output. Phil's mods seem to get reposted here on a regular basis. --scott ",12 "Re: Travesty at the Joe Louis In article <1993Apr20.005512.3382@mtroyal.ab.ca> caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca writes: >(Detroit, April 19) > >In a development that shocked most knowledgable observers, the Detroit Redwings >scored no less than six goals against the best goaltender in the world en >route to a 6-3 win over the best team in the NHL, the Toronto Maple Leafs. Not only that, but if I'm not mistaken Detroit scored 4 goals on their first five shots on net...looks like Toronto's cream cheese run continues (or is that swiss cheese? after watching Potvin I'm leaning towards the latter) Bill ",10 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr15.173902.66278@cc.usu.edu>, slyx0@cc.usu.edu writes: =Surprise surprise, different people react differently to different things. One =slightly off the subject case in point. My brother got stung by a bee. I know =he is allergic to bee stings, but that his reaction is severe localized =swelling, not anaphylactic shock. I could not convince the doctors of that, =however, because that's not written in their little rule book. Of course, bee venom isn't a single chemical. Could be your brother is reacting to a different component than the one that causes anaphylactic shock in other people. Similarly, Chinese food isn't just MSG. There are a lot of other ingredients in it. Why, when someone eats something with lots of ingredients they don't normally consume, one of which happens to be MSG, do they immediately conclude that any negative reaction is to the MSG? =I would not be surprised in the least to find out the SOME people have bad =reactions to MSG, including headaches, stomachaches and even vomiting. I'd be surprised if some of these reactions weren't due to other ingredients. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. ",13 "Critique of Pressure Point Massager As promised, below is a personal critique of a Pressure Point Massager I recently bought from the Self Care Catalog. I am very pleased with the results. The catalog description is as follows: The Pressure Point Massager is an aggressive physical massager that actually kneads the tension out of muscles ... much like a professional shiatsu masseur. The powerful motor drives two counter-rotating ""thumbs"" that move in one-inch orbits -- releasing tension in the neck, back, legs and arms. Pressure Point Massager A2623 $109 To order or receive a catalog, call (24 hours, 7 days) 1-800-345-3371 or fax at 1-800-345-4021. ******** NOTE: When I ordered the massager, the item number was different, and the price was $179, not $109. When I received it, I glanced thru the newer catalog enclosed with it to see anything was different from the first one. I was QUITE annoyed to see a $70 difference in price. I called them about it, and the cust rep said that they had switched manufacturers, although it looks and works exactly the same. He told me to go ahead and return the first one and order the cheaper one, using the price difference as a reason for return. In fact, since the newer ones might take a while to ship from the factory (I received this one in 3 days), he told me I could use the one I already have until the new one arrives, then return the old one. VERY reasonable people. ******** I have long-term neck, shoulder and back pain (if I were a building, I would be described as ""structurally unsound :-) ). I have stretches and exercises to do that help, but the problem never really goes away. If, for whatever reason, I do not exercise for a while (illness, not enough time, lazy, etc.), the muscles become quite stiff and painful and, thus, more prone to further strain. Even with exercise, I sometimes require physical therapy to get back on track, which 1st requires a doctor visit to get the prescription for p.t. The tension in my neck, if not released, eventually causes a headache (sometimes confused with a sinus headache) over my left eye. When my physical therapist has massaged my neck, and the sub-occipital muscles in particular (the 2 knobby areas near the base of the skull), the headache usually eased within a day, although it hurts like hell to while it is being massaged. I ordered this device because it seemed to be exactly what I was wishing someone would invent --a machine that would massage, NOT VIBRATE, my neck and sub-occipital muscles like my physical therapist has done in the past, that I could use by myself. No doctor visit or inconvenient p.t. appts for a week later would be needed to use it. I could get up in the middle of the night and use it, if necessary. I have been using it for about a week or so now, and LOVE it. The base unit is about a 14"" x 9"" rectangle, about 3-3/4"" high, with handles on each side, and it plugs into an average outlet. The two metal ""thumbs"" are about 1-1/2"" in diameter and protrude about 2-1/2"" above the base. The thumbs are covered with a gray cloth that is non-removable. They are located more toward one end, rather than centered (see figure below). They move in either clockwise or counter-clockwise directions, depending on which side of the switch is pushed, and are very quiet. It can be used from either side. For instance, the thumbs can be positioned at the base of the neck or the top of the neck, depending on which direction you approach it. _______________________________ | __ _______________ __ | | | | | | | | | | | | | \^^/ \^^/ | | | | | | | | || || | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |_______________| | | | | |__| |__| | |_______________________________| For the neck/head, the user varies the amount of pressure used by (if laying down) allowing all or part of the full weight of the head and/or neck to rest on the thumbs. The handles can also be used if sitting or standing, applying pressure with the arms/wrists. Since my wrists are also impaired (I'm typing this over an extended period of time), and I don't have someone living with me who can apply it, laying down works well for me. For my back, I sit in a high-backed kitchen chair, position the massager behind me at whatever point I want massaged, and lean back lightly (or not so lightly) against it. The pressure of leaning back holds it in place. If I want to massage the entire spine, I simply move it down a few inches whenever I feel like it. For my back, this machine is far superior to use than the commonly used ""home-made"" massager of 2 tennis balls taped together (with the balls, position (against a wall or door) them over the spine and move the body up and down against them). The tennis balls are better than nothing, but difficult to use for very long, especially if your quads are not in good shape, and my long hair gets (painfully) in the way if I don't pin it up first. As far as I'm concerned, the easier something like this is to use, the more likely I'll use/do it. If there are multiple considerations/hassles, I'm more likely to not bother with it. Not only has this machine helped with my headaches, but my range of motion for my neck and back are greatly increased. The first time I used it on my neck/sub-occipital muscles, however, I overdid it and pressed too hard against it, which resulted in a very tender, almost bruised area for a few days. I laid off it for about 3 days and applied ice, which helped. After that, I was more gradual about applying pressure. At this point, the pain in the sub-occipital area is now minimal while being massaged. I also learned to use VERY LIGHT pressure on my lower back, which is the most vulnerable point for me. It also eased some painful knots of tension between my shoulder blades, although, again, it took a few days of massaging (just a few minutes at a time) to really work it out. I highly recommend this product if you have similar problems, although I cannot vouch for its durability (it seems pretty sturdy), since I've had it such a short time. I plan to use it not only to ease tension, but also to loosen the muscls BEFORE exercising (and maybe after, too). I have been ill recently and not able to exercise much for a few weeks, so this was very timely for me. This is the 1st product I've ordered from this company and only recently became aware of it thru a co-worker. The catalog states they have been in business since 1976. It contains quite a few health care products and, while they appear to be more expensive than the average health care catalog products, they also appear to be of much higher quality with more thought put into what they actually do. Definitely a step above some other ones I've seen such as ""Dr. Leonards Health Care Catalog"" or ""Mature Wisdom"". I'm only 37, but have ended up on some geriatric-type mailing lists (no big surprise here :-) ). I consider many of those products to be rip-offs, particularly targeted toward the elderly, with dubious health benefits. I apologize for the length of this, but it's the kind of info _I_ would like to know before ordering something thru the mail. Robin Coutellier Northern Telecom, Mountain View, CA INTERNET: robin@ntmtv.com UUCP:portal!ntmtv!robin ",13 "Re: Changing oil by self. In article <1993Apr15.193712.25996@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandei s.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.020356.28944@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.ac s.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes: >>I take the electrodes of the Amp/Ohm/Volt meter whatever and connect one >>to each earlobe. Then, symmetrically insert my fingers in each of the >>spark plug boots. No cheating guys! both hands must be used! > >I have just a couple of questions about this technique. > >First, what firing order should I use? Do I start with my pointer >finger or my pinky? Left hand or right? Place your hands flat on a table, and arrange the firing order from left to right. >And secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted >for. Any suggestions? Well, you have friends don't you??? 12 cylinders might be more excitement than one person can take.... ",7 "Re: Is Microsoft Windows really and Ope In article <1pr6r2$t7c@agate.berkeley.edu> neff123@garnet.berkeley.edu (Stephen Kearney) writes: > >Apparently not. Many people complain about the confusion that >results from the filemanager/progman split. It's just a basic >flaw. > I have one thing to say-- why does everyone say that spliting them up is such a bad thing? I actually like my program launcher and file manager do be seperate.. it make things easier to figure out.. I mean, take a look at OS/2's wps... (no flames!).. I personally hate it cause I just have too much trouble figuring out how to do simple things like file copy.. and don't say ""just drag the icon!"".. Cause I hate icons in the first place. I have too much trouble telling what all those little push buttons mean. I want ""F""ile ""C""opy etc.. although I know I'm in the minority. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- swyatt@brahms.udel.edu !!! no disclaimer...I blame everything on someone else ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",2 "Re: Soundblaster IRQ and Port settings > My solution was to switch the interrupt to IRQ 5, which is > unreserved in contemporary computers (using IRQ 5 for the > drives went out with the XT architechture ... ) Not completly true. For AT class and later machines, IRQ5 is reserved for LPT2. Since it's rare to have a second parallel port in a PC, it's usually a good safe choice if you need an interrupt. On the other hand, we just ran into a problem with that here at work on a Gateway computer (4DX-33V). It has a Modem on COM1, a Mouse on COM2, and the other serial port was set to COM3 (which normally uses the same interrupt as COM1). We had a real fight with a board when trying to use IRQ5, and discoverd the problem was that Gateway had set it up such that COM3 used IRQ5. As soon as we disabled COM3, our problems went away. Grumble ... after several days of trying to figure out why the interrupt didn't work. ~ Mike (sprague.wbst311@xerox.com) ",3 "Re: WORD 2.0 HELP! From article <0096B11B.08A283A0@vms.csd.mu.edu>, by 2a42dubinski@vms.csd.mu.edu: > Can anyone tell me if and how they have printed Spanish characters? I know WP 5.1 has this built-in, but I do not recall ever seeing this option on WFW2. HELP! Try using the extended character set (Alt-#### sequences) . . look in Character Map in the Accessories group and see the alt-sequence for the font you want! Gregory R. Cook | INTERNET: gcook@horus.cem.msu.edu Department of Chemistry | cookgreg@student.msu.edu Michigan State University | cook@cemvax.cem.msu.edu East Lansing, MI 48824 | BITNET: cook@msucem.BITNET ",2 "Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots? In article <1993Apr29.173817.25867@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> tung@paaiec.enet.dec.com () writes: > >I have just started taking allergy shots a month ago and is >still wondering what I am getting into. A friend of mine told >me that the body change every 7 years (whatever that means) >and I don't need those antibody-building allergy shots at all. >Does that make sense to anyone? > >BTW, can someone summarize what is in the Consumer Report >February, 1988 article? I am reluctant to summarize it, for then you will have my opinion of what the article says, rather than your own opinion. I think it is important enough for you to take the trouble to go to the library and get the article. The title is ""The shot doctors"" and it appears on Pages 96-100 of the February, 1988 issue of Consumer Reports. The following excerpt from the article may entice you to read the whole article: Too often, shots are overused.....""When you put a patient on shots, you've got an annuity for life,"" a former president of the American Academy of Allergy and Immunology told CU. [page 97] ",13 "Re: Albert Sabin In article <1r7houINNop9@titan.ucs.umass.edu>, cma@titan.ucs.umass.edu (COLIN MA) writes: > I just started reading this newsgroup and haven't been following the > thread. I'm just curious: How did this thread get started with > ""Albert Sabin"" and changed into something else? What was it about > Sabin that initiated a religious discussion? > > Colin > > Well, the thread started out as a discussion of Sabin, and EVOLVED into an entirely different topic. Happens all the time. Just think of it as evolution in action..... (grin) Sue ",0 "Re: Tieing Abortion to Health Reform -- Is Clinton Nuts? In <1993Apr1.205612.21234@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes: >Why should anyone be forced to pay for someone else's abortion, >when in the vast majority of instances, the need for abortion is >easily preventable? Who is forcing these couples to have sexual >intercourse? This, of course, is an argument against any health care not explicitly paid for with personal funds. But you knew that. >Doug Holtsinger -rocker ",19 "Turbo Grafx, Turbo CD forsale I have a Turbo Grafx 16 game system with the add on CD-ROM system forsale. I want to sell the Turbo grafx, Turbo CD, Turbo pad, and Y's Book I and II (CD) for $100. I'll split the S&H charges. Please reply by e-mail to jth@bach.udel.edu. Thanks, Jay ",6 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article tbrent@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent) writes: >In article goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes: >> Where did you get this information? The FBI stated they were not >> aware of any mass suicide plans, ditto Koresh's attorneys who appeared >> on Larry King's Live yesterday, and the survivors claim the fire was started >> from the outside... > >Actually, ONE of the survivors say it was started by the FBI (tank knocked over lamp). Another said the Davidians set the fire themselves. The FBI says that one survivor says they set the fire themselves. Given that the claim is that the fire was started in 3 places at once, and that the building was being rammed by a tank and filled with tear gas, just how did the Davidians manage to co-ordinate such a thing? -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Some news readers expect ""Disclaimer:"" here. Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. (not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice) ",19 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters How energetic could they be? In article <1rgvjsINNbhq@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr) writes: > > If gamma ray bursters are extragalactic, would absorption from the > galaxy be expected? How transparent is the galactic core to gamma > rays? > > How much energy does a burster put out? I know energy depends on > distance, which is unknown. An answer of the form _X_ ergs per > megaparsec^2 is OK. > > > -- > John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu) I had to turn to one of my problem sets that I did in class for this little problem. I don't have a calculator, but I DO have the problem set that we did not too long ago, so I'll use that, and hope it's what you wanted. This is a highly simplified problem, with a very simple burst. Bursts are usually more complex than this example I will use here. Our burst has a peak flux of 5.43E-6 ergs cm^-2 sec^-1 and a duration of 8.95 seconds. During the frst second of the burst, and the last 4 seconds, its flux is half of the peak flux. It's flux is the peak flux the rest of the time. Assume that the background flux is 10E-7 erg cm^-2 sec^-1. Then we had to find the integrated luminosity of the burst, for several different spheres: R=.25pc(Oort Cloud Radius), R=22.5pc(at the edge of the galaxy), R=183.5pc or the edge of the galactic corona, and lastly at a R=8800Mpc. We integrated the flux over all time to find the fluence, then used the old standby formula: Luminosity=4(pi)(r^2)Fpeak For a radius of .25 pc, we found an L around 10^32 erg/sec. Pretty energetic for close by. for the coronal model, we found around 10^43 erg/sec. And lastly, for the cosmological model an L=10^53. That's what you'd call moderately energetic, I'd say. Any suggestions about what could put out that much energy in one second? -jeremy ",14 "xterm build problem in Solaris2.1 ..continuing on my build problems, I got stuck here build xterm... gcc -fpcc-struct-return -o xterm main.o input.o charproc.o cursor.o util.o tabs.o screen.o scrollbar.o button.o Tekproc.o misc.o VTPrsTbl.o TekPrsTbl.o data.o menu.o -O2 -R/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib${LD_RUN_PATH+\:$LD_RUN_PATH} -L../.././lib/Xaw -lXaw -L../.././lib/Xmu -lXmu -L../.././lib/Xt -lXt -L../.././extensions/lib -lXext -L../.././lib/X -lX11 -L/usr/wgep/X11R5.sos5/lib -lsocket -lnsl -ltermcap Undefined first referenced symbol in file index /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o) rindex /usr/ucblib/libtermcap.a(termcap.o) ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to xterm *** Error code 1 make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `xterm' Any clues for help? -- Douglas L.Acker Western Geophysical Exploration Products ____ ____ ____ a division of Western Atlas International Inc. \ \ / /\ / /\ A Litton / Dresser Company \ \/ / \ / / \ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ \ / / \ / /\ \ Internet : acker@wg2.waii.com \/___/ \/___/ \___\ Voice : (713) 964-6128 ",5 "Re: How many homosexuals are there? _TOO_ many. -- The views expressed herein are | Theodore A. Kaldis my own only. Do you seriously | kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu believe that a major university | {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis as this would hold such views??? | ",18 "Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx? We have seen lots of discussion on automobile engine configuration. Let me ask a similar question from the aviation field. You must have seen images of prop planes with all cylinders exposed. I have seen up to 8 cylinders positioned radially in a circular fashion with the prop at the center of the circle. This arrangement always brings up a geometric dilemma. How can one crankshaft throw accomodate 8 rods or are the pistons displaced but not visible from the outside. Bijan ",7 "Re: extra monitors Jerry Salem writes >Is there a good (Cheap) way to hook up two monitors to my LC >and is there anyone out there that has done this, how do you like it? > >jerry@slack.med.upenn.edu The only way to do that would be to add a video card to the LC expansion port. This doesn't have to be that expensive; several companies have portrait monitor/video card bundles available. Check a current MacWorld/MacUser. --Nizam -- / * \ Nizam Arain \ What makes the universe || || (217) 384-4671 / so hard to comprehend | \___/ | Internet: narain@uiuc.edu \ is that there is nothing \_____/ NeXTmail: narain@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu / to compare it with. ",4 "Re: Habs Late In article <21APR93.05114955.0057@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CCDB writes: >Quebec dominated Habs for first 2 periods and only Roy kept >this one from being rout, although he did blow 2nd goal. >Canadians showed up in third but Nords were playing dump & >pull back most of the time. Do you notice that _nobody_ on the team is willing to take charge? A dominant defenceman would be nice....too bad Schneider got hurt. He reminds me of Chris Chelios sometimes. Speaking of Chelios, I wonder if Serge Savard feels like a moron for making that trade. I also wish we still had Corson. Rob Ramage on the ice is less useful than a Gatorade bottle on the bench. Vincent Damphousse has decided to take a vacation, apparently. I have no idea why Demers is playing Denis Savard on the checking line with Carbonneau. Savard is skating well, and is one of the only dangerous Canadiens in Quebec's zone with the puck. Too bad nobody is in front most of the time. Do you also notice that in the defensive zone, not a single Nordique gets knocked down? It's disgusting. We also have Lebeau (5'10"", 172) getting pasted at centre ice by Wolaninn (6'3"", 205) with no reply from the team, except to yell for a penalty. Dammit, Denis Savard threw the best (only?) Montreal hit of the night when he knocked Sundin off-balance. When Denis Savard is your team's enforcer, there's big trouble someplace... >Hextall made some good saves but >really this one was lost in first period when nords scored 3 >& could have had 5, plus another 4 in 2nd. Aside from that second goal, Roy did stand on his head. The third period at least provided something to look forward to. Habs won the period, IMO, and I guess somebody finally came along to smack them a couple of times in the second intermission to remind them that a game had started at 7:30. Hopefully they play that way at home. Roy made the saves (we'll ignore that second goal), so now it's up to the team. -- dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca P.S. To all those Grant Fuhr doubters.....Buffalo 4, Boston 0. 'nuff said. And did somebody say Dale Hunter was a playoff choker? I'd rethink that position :-) ",10 "Re: Limiting Govt (was Re: Employment (was Re: Why not concentrate...) In article <1993Apr18.172531.10946@isc-br.isc-br.com>, steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes: |> In article <16APR199317110543@rigel.tamu.edu> gmw0622@rigel.tamu.edu (Mr. Grinch) writes: |> >In article <1993Apr15.170731.8797@isc-br.isc-br.com>, steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes... |> [.....] |> Of course, one again faces the question of how one circumscribes government |> power (and keeps it circumscribed) in a complex society when it is in the |> interest of neither capitalists nor consumers to refrain from using |> government power for their own ends. But apart from that little |> conundrum... This is a difficult problem for which there is no obviously good solution. One approach is simply to try and move political opinion and hope a new more libertarian consensus lasts for a while. Another approach is to try and amend the constitution. The original constitution restrained the U.S. government from economic intervention for 100 to 150 years, depending on just how one wants to count it. The First Amendment, though weakened in many ways, still restrains government (particularly state and local), even though on many particular issues the majority is in favor of censorship. I think libertarians would be happy with another 100 years of restraint via an amendment or two (not that I think that's likely to happen). Not necessarily Mr. Hendricks, but other posters seem to see this as a problem with libertarianism, that it cannot be stable. That might be true, but it is not an objection to libertarianism per se. If a libertarian political consensus forms for a decade or two and then falls apart again, we would just be back where we are now. This is unlike the case for socialism where a socialist consensus that held for a while and then fell apart would not leave us where we are now, but instead with lots of bureaucracy that would be hard to get rid of, if not tyranny as the end condition of a strong socialist consensus. -- Ervan Darnell ervan@cs.rice.edu ",18 "For Sale: Sound Blaster Card...Hurry! Well it seems that I have a soundblaster card for sale since I recently purchased a SBPro. The card comes complete, In mint condition; with box, manuals,docs ,disks and original packaging. Make an offer..._Canadian_ inquiries prefered! Respond before APRIL 28!!!!!!!!!!!!! e-mail at acps7117@ryevm.ryerson.ca J.M. ",3 "Re: My '93 picks (with only one comment) In article <12786@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes: > In article <1psbg8INNgjj@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> > rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes: > >In article jfr2@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jackie F. > >Russell) writes: > >> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes: > >> >National League West > >> > Cincinnati ---- > >> > Houston 5.0 > >> > Atlanta 8.0 > >> ARGH! Here is where you are obviously dead wrong. Not since the Yankees > >> of the 20's and 30's has a team been so nicely setup as this years(and > >> years to come) Braves. I don't think that the All-Star team will be able > >This may be an appropriate comparison. > >The 1929-31 Yankees finshed 2nd, 3rd and 2nd finshing > >18, 16 and 13-1/2 games out of first. > >In 1933,'34 and '35 they also finished second ( though they were only > >7, 7 and 3 games out). > >Even great teams can lose - That's why they play the season. > >(on the other hand... I'm still picking the Braves to go all the way) > Um, surely you didn't intend to compare the '93 Reds with the > 29 Philidelphia A's. The Yankees were finishing 2nd to > a team that was as good as the 26-28 Yankees, while the > Yankees had aged some from their peak years. Ruth and Gehrig > couldn't play every position simultaneously. > > IMO, given the various ages of the Braves and Reds this season, > that the Braves will be closer to their peak, while the Reds > have slightly passed their peak. > > Also, if you're going to compare Braves and Yankees, a more appropriate > comparison to the '93 Braves might be the '23 Yankees. > After falling short two years in a row in exciting World Series, > both teams won/will win the Series this year, despite the > heroics of some old fart on the other team. > (Casey Stengel/ Dave Winfield???) Perhaps so. I was only responding to the ""Yankees of the 20's and 30's"" part of the comment. If those teams were a 'sure thing' and lost, then it's probably not so unreasonable for someone to pick another team (not that I did). john rickert rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu Go Brewers! ",9 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article <1qpg8fINN982@dns1.NMSU.Edu> amolitor@nmsu.edu (Andrew Molitor) writes: >In article > tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes: >> >>But is it any worse than the current unsecure system? It becomes much >>worse, of course, if the government then uses this ""Clinton Clipper"" >>to argue for restrictions on unapproved encryption. (This is the main >>concern of most of us, I think. The camel's nose in the tent, etc.) >> > > Not to pick on Mr. May in particular, of course, but isn't this >kind of the domino theory? When one little country falls, its neighbor >will surely follow, and before you know it, we're all mining salt >in Siberia for not turning in our Captain Crunch Secret Decoder Rings. > > Surely the hypothesis relying on the least wild assumptions is >to take this at face value. Our lads at the fort were asked to cook up >something that's pretty secure, with a key that can be escrowed neatly, >and they did. The government plans to sell this thing, for the reasons >they state. Yes, those evil guys in the FBI can probably, with some >effort, abuse the system. I got news for you, if the evil guys in >the FBI decide they want to persecute you, they're gonna, and you're >gonna hate it. Fact is, the FBI doesn't want to listen to your phone >calls, and if they do, and if you're using triple-DES, they'll just >get a parabolic microphone and point it at your head. > With E-Mail, if they can't break your PGP encryption, they'll just call up one of their TEMPEST trucks and read the electromagnetic emmisions from your computer or terminal. Note that measures to protect yourself from TEMPEST surveillance are still classified, as far as I know. > This is pretty clearly an effort by the government to do exactly >what they're saying they're doing. As is typical with governments, >it's mismanaged, and full of holes and compromises. As is typical >with our government, it's not too bad, could be worse. > > My interpretation. > > Andrew > >>-Tim May, whose sig block may get him busted in the New Regime > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Isn't this just a little melodramatic? If the new regime comes to fruition, make sure you protect your First Amendment rights by asserting your Second Amendment Rights. Doug Holland ",11 "Re: Disappointed by La Cie In article <2BC1F81D.20078@news.service.uci.edu> Wayne Chen, eapu174@orion.oac.uci.edu writes: > industry. After all it does sound unfair to me for someone that has ^^^^^^^^ Oops, I meant fair, not unfair. ",4 "NASA Ames server (was Re: Space Station Redesign, JSC Alternative #4) In article <1993Apr26.152722.19887@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, kjenks@jsc.nasa.gov (Ken Jenks [NASA]) writes: > I just posted the GIF files out for anonymous FTP on server ics.uci.edu. [...] > Sorry it took > me so long to get these out, but I was trying for the Ames server, > but it's out of space. How ironic. Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey | ""Treat your password like Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory | your toothbrush. Don't let Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET | anybody else use it-- Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV | and get a new one every SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS | six months."" --Cliff Stoll ",14 "Re: Back Breaker, Near Hit!! In article <1993Apr23.215123.23789@rd.hydro.on.ca> jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes: > In article <1r941o$3tu@menudo.uh.edu> inde7wv@Rosie.UH.EDU writes: > >another to the list but with this one I felt the most helpless. I am sitting > >at a light about 1 - 2 car lengths behind a car, a wise decsion. Suddenly I > >hear screeching tires. I dart my eyes to my mirrors and realize it's the > >moroon flying up right behind me, in my panic I pop my clutch and stall the > >bike. Luckily the guy stops a foot behind my rear wheel. > > > >I understand why you theoretically stop so far behind a car but can you > >really in actuality avoid such an incident? Suggestions? > Another tip is to make sure you keep well to one side of the lane. This gives you a quicker escape route. Jeff Goss ",8 "Re: The Role of the National News Media in Inflaming Passions Kaldis writes: #The fact that she was wearing a miniskirt with no underwear was #presented as evidence that she was a prostitute, and the court #apparently found this compelling. Ah, I know women who wear miniskirts without wearing underwear, and they are not prostitutes. #Because the judge found that there was some credible evidence that the #Marines were engaged in self-defense. Got it, knucklehead? Gee, Both Clayton and Kaldis engaging in ad hominem arguments. I presented evidence that what you said is *NOT* what the judge ruled. Provide your evidence. Repeating a false claim is not evidence. -- -Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia USPS Mail: Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA Internet: gsh7w@virginia.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w ",18 "Re: Wanted: Trombone for a beginner In article <1qu43p$aam@fnnews.fnal.gov>, Greg Schuweiler writes: > > Would like to purchase a trombone for a 9 year old because > > ""This really really want I want to play daddy I'll practice everyday and > I'll even keep my room really clean."" > > Well he must really mean it. Would like to find a used one. Please > e-mail me at > > schuweiler@fnal.gov > > > Greg Schuweiler schuweiler@fnal.gov I've got a used one for sale. I used it in high school and just don't have the occasion to get it out and play it anymore. Email me and we can work out something on it. I can't get email to you for some reason. David-- --------------------------------------------------------------------- David B. Snyder Logicon Technical Services Inc. dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil Wright-Patterson Air Force Base 513-255-5165 Dayton, Ohio USA --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is said that GOD doesn't subtract from ones' time on earth, those hours spent flying. --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1946 Cessna 140 N76234 ""The lady in waiting"" Owner/Operator --------------------------------------------------------------------- Opinions expressed are my own and not those of Logicon or the USAF. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ",6 "(none) We are adding a Motif wrapper to a family of data display programs. These programs are each written as a 'main loop' with these steps: - use semop to check a semaphore and if true access new data otherwise block (new data comes quite often) - use msgop to check for messages and if true read them otherwise continue (messages are user commands and not often) - update the display according to latest data and messages. We typically have several of these running in windows, plus a data producer serving some device and setting the flag. Everyone blocking makes sure the device server gets to run. Xt and Xm also have a 'main loop' model that we must fit into. O'Reilly Vol IV Ch 9 discusses adding a file-watcher and also how to add workprocs that are run during idle time. We can 'open-up' our existing main loop and call it as a workproc. The problem is our blocking until new data is no longer appropriate. Neither is letting the program free-run because others are hurt. The unix select call lets you block until any of several i/o are ready. We want that for the X main loop except not file i/o. Any suggestions or examples most welcome! We run SGI Personal Iris and Indigo systems. Morris Hirsch aka morris@sg25.nusc.navy.mil or 401 841 7800 ",5 "Re: Do we need the clipper for cheap security? : From: pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) : Indeed, were it not for the government doing everything possible to : stop them, Qualcomm would have designed strong encryption right in to : the CDMA cellular phone system they are pioneering. Were it not for : the NSA and company, cheap encryption systems would be everywhere. As : it is, they try every trick in the book to stop it. Had it not been : for them, I'm sure cheap secure phones would be out right now. In the UK, it's impossible to get approval to attach any crypto device to the phone network. (Anything that plugs in to our BT phone sockets must be approved - for some reason crypto devices just never are...) I was wondering some time ago how big a market there was for good old- fashion acoustic coupler technology to build a secure phone :-) ... is it possible to mask out all the real voice well enough so that none of it strays into the mouthpiece? Perhaps a well-sealed coupler attachment that was as well blocked as possible, then a white noise generator on the outside to muffle any real speech? G ",11 "Re: PLANETS STILL: IMAGES ORBIT BY ETHER TWIST ----- News saved at 23 Apr 93 22:22:40 GMT In article <1993Apr22.130923.115397@zeus.calpoly.edu> dmcaloon@tuba.calpoly.edu (David McAloon) writes: > > ETHER IMPLODES 2 EARTH CORE, IS GRAVITY!!! > > This paper BOTH describes how heavenly bodys can be stationary, >ether sucking structures, AND why we observe ""orbital"" motion!! > ""Light-Years"" between galaxies is a misnomer. The distance is >closer to zero, as time and matter are characteristics of this phase >of reality, which dissipates outward with each layer of the onion. >(defining edge = 0 ether spin) > To find out about all of this, I recommend studying history. Well, I'm working on it, but getting a little impatient. So far, I've made it through Egyptian, Chinese, and Greek cultures, and up through the Rennaisance. But so far, these insights just don't seem to be gelling. Perhaps it's in an appendix somewhere. In its own right, though, the history is kind of fun. Lots of good yarns in there, with varied and interesting characters. And, more to come. ",14 "WANTED: 24 bit viewer Hello, Thanks to the people who helped me with the problem of displaying 24 bit images. All the viewers like xli, xloadimage and display are converting the 24 bit images to 8 bit before display them on the screen. What I really want is a viewer with make use of the 24 bit frame/screen buffer (in our case, the Parallax one). Thanks in advance. Gilles PS: We are using a Sun Sparc running X11. ",1 "Re: Ok, So I was a little hasty... In article 210493143813@moustic.lbl.gov, jnmoyne@lbl.gov (Jean-Noel Moyne) writes: >> >> Recently, >> the Highway Patrol took a few of the opposition Senators out and gave >> them some shots, and when they hit .07, put them on a course dodging >> cones. They failed, and will probably change their votes as a result. > > Did they try to do the course before having a few drinks ? Dunno, the newpaper article I read didn't say (I was wondering the same thing). I rather doubt it... --- Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker, Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM |and I showed him a picture of you. I said, DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |""Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"" (The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do... ",8 "RE: ESPN UP YOURS ......... In article <1993Apr20.214505.6925@wkuvx1.bitnet> kozloce@wkuvx1.bitnet writes: >Jesus Christ!!! > >The score is now 6-0. The Pens are beating the shit out of the Devils who >gave up in the middle of the 2nd period. ESPN does something smart. The >announcer states ""well folks this game is getting out of hand. Lets go to >the Islander/Capitals game."" I celebrate as I was actually making progress in >my CS homework because I was so bored by the scheduled game. I tear down and >throw on my jersey, Hunter scores I go ape shit 'cause this is the first >caps game I've been able to watch all season. And what does ESPN do? they >go back to the blowout that NJ hasn't a chance in hell of winning! > The period ends and the sportscaster (CAPITOLS JUST TIED IT UP!! YES!! >oops excuse me =) goes into his penguin worship mode (Dont freak pens fans! >They are worthy of this! I'm so glad we wont have to play them as much next >year!) and here comes the 3rd period...what? its the blowout again. Oh they >were just waiting for the Cap/Isles to get out of intermission. Good >they've put a close game back on. Wait! WHATS THIS SHIT?!! THEY'RE SHOWING >THE BLOWOUT AGAIN! > > >AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! > >(Oh guess what the score is now 7-0 penguins! Switch games you $%&*#@!!!) > >Holy shit they're changing games! ITS ABOUT GODDAMNED TIME!! Lets see if >they'll stay. > >Later > >I think this proves by $#%&* point. The Caps game goes into overtime but >""due to contractual obligations"" they have to switch to the fucking baseball. >(Sorry for my language but im PISSED!) What the hell were they going to do >if their scheduled game went into overtime? ESPN get your head out of your >ass. > >Now I know there are a lot First of all I think when ESPN covers the game they do a wonderful job, but last night I felt the same way. I really hate watching Devils/Pens game. Everyone knows that Devils are going to get their ass kicked, why even bother showing them. I was so bored and these ESPN people don't seem to have any brain. After the Sundays and last night games, they are still going to show Devils/Pens on THU and SUN. WHat the hell are they thinking about? I think if they keep it up like this NHL will never get a major network contract. I'd rather see Caps/Isls game which is more exciting. Now I just hope all baseball games are rained out on ESPN so atleast we can get diffrent hockey games. ******************************************************************************* ** ___ ____ ____ ____ ____ ** ** ** / / / /___/ /___/ /___/ ** Experience is what makes a person ** ** /___ /___/ /___/ / \_ / / ** make new mistakes instead of old ** ** ** one. ** ** E-mail: cobra@chopin.udel.edu ** ** ** ** ** ******************************************************************************* ",10 "Re: Need to find out number to a phone line In article <20756.2bd16dea@ecs.umass.edu> alee@ecs.umass.edu writes: > >Greetings! > > Situation: I have a phone jack mounted on a wall. I don't > know the number of the line. And I don't want > to call up the operator to place a trace on it. > > Question: Is there a certain device out there that I can > use to find out the number to the line? > Thanks for any response. > Al There is a number you can call which will return a synthesized voice telling you the number of the line. Unfortunately, for the life of me I can't remember what it is. The telephone technicians use it all the time. We used to play around with this in our dorm rooms since there were multiple phone lines running between rooms. sorry! aaron ",12 "Re: SHO and SC In article callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes: >>In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes: >>>In article chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes: >>> > >Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is >beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a >regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to >say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg >disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an >SHO anyway. > >I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic >transmissions from all ""performance-type"" cars (like the 5.0l >Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of >accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans, >but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO. > > James > I have to disagree with this. I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way. Chevy autos are reknowned for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power. I live in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic here. Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be more fun. Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here. Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0 Camaro w/ a five speed. All of this IMHO... :) -- * Robert L. Loper * - Infinity is a notion best contemplated * * ROBERTLL@FLOPN2.dseg.ti.com * in a warm bed. * * Texas Instruments, Inc. * - My opinions are my own, not TI's. * ",7 "ATI Ultra Pro Confirmation I have heard many things about the ATI Ultra Pro card. Some have been positive but most are negative. Could people please confirm these? (I am interested in the EISA version in particular). 1) The card does not work in a system with 32M RAM. 2) The card works in a 32M system with some switches set but it is much slower. 3) The card is _interlaced_ in its 24bit (true-colour) modes. 4) The latest build 59 drivers still do not work in many cases. 5) This card is the fastest full colour card for the money. 6) This card is the greatest thing since sliced bread. ;-) Thanks for your feedback. I will summarize. Al -- Alan Walford Eos Systems Inc., Vancouver,B.C., Canada Tel: 604-734-8655 aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca OR ...uunet!wimsey.bc.ca!eosvcr!aew ",2 "Re: Should I buy a VRF 750? Mark N Bricker (mnb4738@cs.rit.edu) wrote: : I am in the market for a bike and have recently found a 1990 : Honda VRF 750 at a dealership. The bike has about 47,000 miles : and is around $4500. It has had two previous owners, both employees : of the dealership who, I have been told, took very good care of the : bike. : I have two questions: 1) Is this too many miles for a bike? I know this : would not be many miles for a car but I am unfamiliar with the life : span of bikes. 2) Is this a decent price? I am also unfamilar with : prices for used bikes. Is there a blue book for bikes like there is : for cars?. : Thanks for any advice you can give. : --Mark -- Mark, 47k is not too many miles on a VFR750. I sold my (well maintained) '87 VFR700 with 52k miles on it and the engine was in mint condition. All that the bike needed was steering head bearings and fork bushings and seals. The guy who bought it had a mechanic pull the valve covers to look at the top end, do a compression check etc. He confirmed it was mint. As for price, $4500 seems a little steep. I bought my '90 with 12k miles on it a year ago (and in absolutely cherry condition) for $4800. There is a bluebook, ask your bank or credit union for the going price. I've seen a couple of ads for VFR's in the $4500 dollar range. They all said low miles & mint condition but I didn't actually go look at them. A VFR is a very sweet bike and will last you forever if you maintain it at all. One thing to look for, BTW, is a soft front end. If my VFR is any indication, at 12k miles the fork springs were totally shot. Progressive springs ($55) fixed it right up. Good luck, _______________________ K _ E _ N ____________________________ | | | Ken Snyder ms/loc: 330 / UN2 | | Hewlett-Packard Co. LSID : Lake Stevens Instrument Div. | | 8600 Soper Hill Road gte/tn: (206) 335-2253 / 335-2253 | | Everett, WA 98205-1298 un-ix : kens@lsid.hp.com | |______________________________________________________________| ",8 "Re: Finland/Sweden vs.NHL teams (WAS:Helsinki/Stockholm & NHL expansion) : FINLAND: : : D-Jyrki Lumme.......20 : D-Teppo Numminen....20 : D-Peter Ahola.......13 : Well well, they don't like our defenders (mainly Lumme and Numminen)... : C-Jari Kurri........25 : C-Christian Ruuttu..16 : Now, do YOU think that Ruuttu is only worth 16 ? I think it might be 20. : R-Teemu Selanne.....27 : Compared to Kurri, Selanne's points are too high, lets make it 25 or 26. : well in the Canada Cup and World Championships largely due to the efforts of : Markus Ketterer (the goalie), 3-4 or the players listed above and luck. There's : presumably a lot of decent players in Finland that wouldn't be superstars at : the highest level but still valuable role players, however. My guess would be : that the Finnish Canada Cup team would be a .500 team in the NHL. Wow, now, it looks like you don't like our players? What about guys like: Nieminen, Jutila, Riihijarvi, Varvio, Laukkanen, Makela, Keskinen and (even if he is aging) Ruotsalainen? The main difference between finnish and North- American players is, that our players tend to be better in the larger rink. The Canadian defenders are usually slower that defenders in Europe. And I think that there was more in our success than Ketterer and luck (though they helped). I think that the main reason was, that the team worked well together. -- *********************************************************************** * 'Howl howl gargle howl gargle howl howl howl gargle howl gargle howl* * howl gargle gargle howl gargle gargle gargle howl slurrp uuuurgh' * * -Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz * *********************************************************************** -Marko Poutiainen mep@phoenix.oulu.fi ",10 "Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW? HMM? jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson) writes: > In article <1993Apr4.051942.27095@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs. > > > >And after the Leafs make cream cheese of the Philadelphia side tomorrow > >night the Leafs will be without equal. > > Then again, maybe not. To put it mildly. As I watched the Flyers demolish Toronto last night, 4-0, I realized that no matter how good the Leafs' #1 line may be, they'll need one or two more decent lines to go far in the playoffs. And, of course, a healthy Felix Potvin. ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ Thomas A. Darling \\\ The Cellar BBS & Public Access System: 215.539.3043 darling@cellar.org \\\ GEnie: T.DARLING \\ FactHQ ""Truth Thru Technology"" v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v ",10 "Re: Self-destructing copy protection on VHS tape? schuch@phx.mcd.mot.com (John Schuch) writes: >I have always thought that if I wanted to send the Police a tape with >a ransom demand on it, or send CNN a video tape to see if they wanted >to buy it, I would place a small magnet near the take-up spool so the >tape would be erased as it was played. Who would think to check? That is an exceptionally cool idea. Would it work? How strong a field is needed? Anyone? Pat@fegmania.wustl.edu ------------------------------------------------------- # # C C ""Revely, Nancy Sinatra, Christmas Carols... a kind of stereo hell"" ( "" ) -- Chris Buery, ABC News ` ---------------------------------------------------------------- (314)-851-0993 ",12 "Re: Hits Stolen -- First Base 1992 In <1r218pINNh4a@gap.caltech.edu> jeff@smoggy.gg.caltech.edu (Jeff Goldsmith) writes: >In steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes: >>Finally, I throw all this into a a formula I call Defensive Contribution, or >>DCON :->. >You did mean ""DefCon,"" didn't you? Well, no. Although I admit that's more exciting than a rat killer. -- Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic ""It is considered good to look wise, especially when not overburdened with information"" -- J. Golden Kimball ",9 "Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 In article prestonm@cs.man.ac.uk (Martin Preston) writes: > Why not use the PD C library for reading/writing TIFF files? It took me a > good 20 minutes to start using them in your own app. I certainly do use it whenever I have to do TIFF, and it usually works very well. That's not my point. I'm >philosophically< opposed to it because of its complexity. This complexity has led to some programs' poor TIFF writers making some very bizarre files, other programs' inability to load TIFF images (though they'll save them, of course), and a general inability to interchange images between different environments despite the fact they all think they understand TIFF. As the saying goes, ""It's not me I'm worried about- it's all the >other< assholes out there!"" I've had big trouble with misuse and abuse of TIFF over the years, and I chalk it all up to the immense (and unnecessary) complexity of the format. In the words of the TIFF 5.0 spec, Appendix G, page G-1 (capitalized emphasis mine): ""The only problem with this sort of success is that TIFF was designed to be powerful and flexible, at the expense of simplicity. It takes a fair amount of effort to handle all the options currently defined in this specification (PROBABLY NO APPLICATION DOES A COMPLETE JOB), and that is currently the only way you can be >sure< that you will be able to import any TIFF image, since there are so many image-generating applications out there now."" If a program (or worse all applications) can't read >every< TIFF image, that means there are some it won't- some that I might have to deal with. Why would I want my images to be trapped in that format? I don't and neither should anyone who agrees with my reasoning- not that anyone does, of course! :-) ab ",1 "Re: The Universe and Black Holes emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes: > BTW, the parallel universe approach implys an element of mind in the > very physical reality of the universe. This sounds interesting... but what exactly do you mean? > eric Nanci ......................................................................... If you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me email (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu): The fate of the country does not depend on what kind of paper you drop into the ballot box once a year, but on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning. ",0 "New software for sale These programs all include complete printed manuals and registration cards. I need to get rid of some excess. They're the latest versions. I've priced these programs at less than half the list price and significantly less than the cheapest mail-order price around. * MICROSOFT ENTERTAINMENT PACK VOLUME ONE, includes eight different Windows-based games, including Tetris, Taipei, Minesweeper, TicTactics, Golf, Cruel, Pegged, and IdleWild, list $49, sale $20. * JUST JOKING FOR WINDOWS 1.0, database of jokes from WordStar, can quickly find jokes for many different occasions, useful for business writers, speechwriters, presenters, and others, more than 2,800 jokes under 250 topics, can search by keyword and author, list $49, sale $25. * HUMOR PROCESSOR 2.02, DOS-based database of jokes, requires only 384 KB of RAM, along with thousands of categorized jokes you can quickly find also includes an online tutorial for writing your own jokes with proven comedy forumulas, list $99, sale $45. * HISTORY OF THE WORLD 1.0, multimedia CD-ROM covering cave society to the present, includes recordings of 25 famous speeches from Churchhill, Gandi, and others, list $795, sale $160. If you're interested in any of these programs, please phone me at 215-885-7446 (Philadelphia) and I'll save the package for you. -- Reid Goldsborough reidg@pacs.pha.pa.us ",6 "Bowman needs credit During the first three games of the Pens-Devils series, I have been impressed time and time again by the pure talent of the Pens. Jagr, MacEachern and Barrasso have been especially fun to watch. But, one element of this team which goes unnoticed seems to be Scotty Bowman. Despite Brooks' lunatic comments, and despite the Devils' line changing adantage in last night's game, Bowman has been able to keep his cool and keep the Devils in the dark. Granted, the hell-dwellers had the Pens bottled up for a while last night, but Bowman was eventually able to configure his line-up to get the job done. His ability to throw out new looks and strategies at a moments notice is incredible. Bowman seems to have a terrific ability of reading his players on an individual basis. Last night, for instance, he realized that the speed of Jagr, Straka, and MacEachern was throwing the Devils off balance. As a result, Straka received many more shifts than average; Jagr played almost the entire game (he was always on the puck), and MacEachern scored a goal, while complementing Jagr many times throughout the night. His ability to commit to one player in crucial situations is commendable, especially when a coach of such a talented team might simply rely on the overall talent to dominate, and to bring about success. While no one can replace the genius and optimism of Badger Bob Johnson, Bowman, in his own way, has made himself a permanent, though not clearly seen, mark in Pittsburgh. ",10 "Cornerstone DualPage driver wanted I am looking for a WINDOW 3.1 driver for Cornerstone DualPage (Cornerstone Technology, Inc) video card. Does anybody know, that has these? Is there one? Thanks for any info, To~nis -- To~nis Kelder Estonian Biocentre (tkelder@kask.ebc.ee) ",1 "Re: Bonilla fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes: >>>All of these divisions based on race, religion, etc. make me sick. >>As they should. Isn't it nice that MLB is finally waking up to >>their existence? Isn't it a shame that hiring practices, on and off >>the field, have been discriminatory for so long? (Quick: name a >>light-hitting black outfielder or 1B who lasted 10+ years in the bigs. >>I bet you can name two dozen white ones.) >Otis Nixon. >Darnell Coles >Henry Cotto Manny Mota. Billy Hatcher Herm Winningham. Lonnie Smith (not light hitting, but a horror in the field) Gary Redus Dion James Daryl Boston Vince Coleman (yeah, he's finally started to have a decent OBP) Cecil Espy Willie Wilson Gary Pettis Milt Thompson Gary Varsho OK, I admit to taking a quick browse through the Major League Handbook, but only after the first 7 or 8. Oh, and there's the all-time light-hitting black outfielder: Lou Brock. Look it up. And Curt Flood. Cesar Geronimo. Cesar Cedeno. >Note: These guys may not have reached 10 years yet, but they've got >to be close. Likewise for my list. Oh, and a prediction: Milt Cuyler. Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com You know the great thing about TV? If something important happens anywhere at all in the world, no matter what time of the day or night, you can always change the channel. - Jim Ignatowski ",9 "Re: Fractal compression In article , inu530n@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (I Rachmat) writes: |> Hi... can anybody give me book or reference title to give me a start at |> fractal image compression technique. Helps will be appreciated... thanx For better worse, the source on this on is Michael Barnsley. His article in The Science of Fractal Images (Peitgen et al) is a fair-to-middling intro. Barnsley's book Fractals Everywhere is a more thorough treatment. The book covers Iterated Function Systems in general, and their application to image compression is clear from the text. --- dr memory jbulf@kpc.com ",1 "Re: New planet/Kuiper object found? If the new Kuiper belt object *is* called 'Karla', the next one should be called 'Smiley'. James Nicoll ",14 "Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5 In article pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: >priority than the direct word of Jesus in Matt5:14-19? Paul begins >Romans 14 with ""If someone is weak in the faith ..."" Do you count >yourself as one who is weak in the faith? Do you count yourself as one who is weak in the faith? >you read Jesus' word in Matt5:14-19? Is there any doubt in your mind >about what is right and what is sin (Greek hamartia = missing the mark)? Is there any doubt in your mind about what is right and what is missing the mark? >>However I'd like to be clear that I do not think there's unambiguous >>proof that regular Christian worship was on the first day. As I >>indicated, there are responses on both of the passages cited. >Whereas, the Ten Commandments and Jesus' words in Matt5:14-19 are fairly >clear, are they not? Are they clear or do you have doubts? >[No, I don't believe that Paul can overrule God. An important first step; the realization that Paul was human. >However Paul was writing for a largely Gentile audience. Yes, and he was writing and speaking for an audience that was at best, very weak in the faith; most could not read, most were unfamiliar with the Hebrew Scriptures in even the Septuagint form. Paul adapted the message of the Bible to a largely uneducated market. Granted, this market still exists today, but do you count yourself as part of it? To be ""weak in the faith"" is not missing the mark (hamartia) if you do the best that your education allows. Are you doing the best? >The Law was regarded by Jews >at the time (and now) as binding on Jews, but not on Gentiles. There >are rules that were binding on all human beings (the so-called Noachic >laws), but they are quite minimal. Let me make clear that the ""Law"" is none other than the Pentateuch of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. What did Jesus say about the ""Law"" in Matt5:14-19? Where did Jesus say that the ""Law"" only applies to Jews and that Gentiles are above the ""Law""? >The issue that the Church had to >face after Jesus' death was what to do about Gentiles who wanted to >follow Christ. The decision not to impose the Law on them didn't say >that the Law was abolished. It simply acknowledged that fact that it >didn't apply to Gentiles. Who acknowledged this fact? On what basis? Are we extra-biblical at this point? Why not also acknowledge that the Bhagavad-Gita is the only relevant text for Gentiles, after all we see in the Bible that it was Magus from the east who observed the star-signs of Jesus? Why bother with any texts at all? Why not just follow whatever the Church has to say? >Thus there is no contradiction with Mat 5. I don't see how you can say this with a straight face. Are you a follower of Christ, or do you follow someone else? Are you saying that the words of Jesus only apply to Jews? >As far as I can tell, both Paul and other Jewish Christians did >continue to participate in Jewish worship on the Sabbath. Thus they >continued to obey the Law. How Jewish was Paul after he changed his name from Saul? >The issue was (and is) with Gentile >Christians, who are not covered by the Law (or at least not by the >ceremonial aspects of it). Who says Gentile Christians are not covered by the first five books? Who says that Gentile Christians are above the Ten Commandments? >Jesus dealt mostly with Jews. I think we can reasonably assume that >Mat 5 was directed to a Jewish audience. You're implying that Jesus' words are valid only for Jews. Is this really what you mean to say? You do realize that you are gutting rather large portions of the Bible? When you read Jesus' words, did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe Jesus is talking to you, no matter what your race or sex? If the Hebrew Scriptures and the Gospel accounts of Jesus are only directed to Jews, why were they translated into English? >He did interact with >Gentiles a few times (e.g. the centurion whose slave was healed and a >couple of others). The terms used to describe the centurion (see Luke >7) suggest that he was a ""God-fearer"", i.e. a Gentile who followed >God, but had not adopted the whole Jewish Law. As Paul would call him, one who was weak in the faith. >He was commended by >Jewish elders as a worthy person, and Jesus accepted him as such. >This seems to me to indicate that Jesus accepted the prevailing view >that Gentiles need not accept the Law. Which is more important: 1) The recorded word of Jesus or 2) Indications that you can deduce from the Bible? Was Jesus God only of the Jews, or God of all humankind of all race and sex? >However there's more involved if you want to compare Jesus and Paul on >the Law. In order to get a full picture of the role of the Law, we >have to come to grips with Paul's apparent rejection of the Law, and >how that relates to Jesus' commendation of the Law. At least as I >read Paul, he says that the Law serves a purpose that has been in a >certain sense superceded. This is your understanding of Paul. Compare this to the word of Jesus. Are you Christian or Pauline? >Again, this issue isn't one of the >abolition of the Law. In the middle of his discussion, Paul notes >that he might be understood this way, and assures us that that's not >what he intends to say. Rather, he sees the Law as primarily being >present to convict people of their sinfulness. But ultimately it's an >impossible standard, and one that has been superceded by Christ. Again, this is your understanding of Paul. Did Jesus say that the Law was an ""impossible standard?"" Did Jesus say that He superceded the Law? Are you Christian or Pauline? >Paul's comments are not the world's clearest here, and not everyone >agrees with my reading. You acknowledge that it is *your* reading of Paul. What did Jesus say? Can you deny that Matt5:14-19 is quite clear in its meaning? Are you Christian or Pauline? >But the interesting thing to notice is that >even this radical position does not entail an abolition of the Law. >It still remains as an uncompromising standard, from which not an iota >or dot may be removed. For its purpose of convicting of sin, it's >important that it not be relaxed. When did Jesus say that the purpose of the Law was conviction of sin? >However for Christians, it's not >the end -- ultimately we live in faith, not Law. Please reread Matt5:14-19. Are you Christian or Pauline? >Jesus' interpretations >emphasize the intent of the Law, and stay away from the ceremonial >details. Are you saying that the Ten Commandments are ceremonial details? >Paul's conclusion is similar. While he talks about the Law being >superceded, all of the specific examples he gives involve the >""ceremonial law"", such as circumcision and the Sabbath. He is quite >concerned about maintaining moral standards. You call observance of the Sabbath, the day on which the Lord rested, ceremonial? Has circumcision been superceded for Christians? .... Are you Christian or Pauline? [Both. There is no doubt in my mind about what is sin and what is not, at least not in this case. Jesus did not deal explicitly with the question of whether the Law was binding on Gentiles. That's why I have to cite evidence such as the way Jesus dealt with the Centurion. As to general Jewish views on this, I am dependent largely on studies of Pauline theology, one by H.J. Schoeps, and one whose author I can't come up with at the moment. Both authors are Jews. Also, various Christian and non-Christian Jews have discussed the issue here and in other newsgroups. Mat 5:19 is clear that the Law is still valid. It does not say that it applies to Gentiles. And yes, I say that the specific requirement for worship on the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments is a ceremonial detail, when you're looking at the obligations of Gentiles. Similarly circumcision. I'm not sure quite what else I can say on this subject. Again, it's unfortunate the Jesus didn't answer the question directly. However we do know (1) what the 1st Cent. Jewish approach was, (2) how Jesus dealt with at least one Gentile, and (3) how Jesus' disciples dealt with the issue when it became more acute (I'm referring to Acts 15 more than Paul). Given that these are all in agreement, I don't see that there's a big problem. --clh] ",15 "Re: Some Recent Observations by Hubble In article <15APR199316461058@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov> baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes: >Here are some recent observations taken by the Hubble Space Telescope: > > o Observations were made using the High Speed Photometer of the Planet > Uranus during an occultation by a faint star in Capricornus. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wow! I knew Uranus is a long way off, but I didn't think it was THAT far away! -- | Dick Pierce | | Loudspeaker and Software Consulting | | 17 Sartelle Street Pepperell, MA 01463 | | (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX) | ",14 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article , neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes... #[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ] # #> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves #> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is #> imminent. #> #> Steve Heracleous # #You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you #go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good #job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from #me - those kids are mean. This last comment was obviously a bit cynical, but a true statement of the attitude of some drivers (there's your ""autos"" content), I would say. What law-abiding (not ""low-abiding"" as above (talk about Freudian slips!)) citizens have the right and responsibility to do is try to PREVENT this type of behaviour in children. A doctor may have to use ""deadly force"" against a part of a body (like amputating it) when an infection/disease has gone too far. But his real desire would have been to *prevent* the disease in the first place or at least nip it in the bud. Followups should go to alt.parents-teens Fred W. Bach , Operations Group | Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility) | Voice: 604-222-1047 loc 327/278 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS | FAX: 604-222-1074 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA V6T 2A3 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question. They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers. ",7 "Re: Top Ten Signs That It's the Age of Aquarius on Pennsylvania Avenue paolucci@spot.Colorado.EDU (Paolucci Paul) writes: >In article ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes: >>Top Ten Signs That It's the Age of Aquarius on Pennsylvania Avenue >[biased and decidedly not-as-funny-as-dave stuff deleted...] >I sure hope that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE is enjoying these ""lists""... [stuff deleted] >I'm no Clinton fan, but I'm no Ipser fan... Then why not simply stop reading them. This isn't intended as a flame, but your post reminds me of the old joke: Patient: ""Doctor it hurts when I do this."" Doctor: ""Then stop doing that."" Regards, Jeff ",18 "Re: Proton/Centaur? In article <1993Apr20.211638.168730@zeus.calpoly.edu> jgreen@trumpet.calpoly.edu (James Thomas Green) writes: >Has anyone looked into the possiblity of a Proton/Centaur combo? I don't know a whole lot on Proton, but given that it is a multi stage rocket, up to 4 stages, it may not really need the Centaur, plus it may end up seriously beating on said centaur. Also, the centaur is not small, unless the Proton has an oversize shroud you may not be able to get the centaur in under it. Dennis, you know much about this? pat ",14 "File Manager problem Whenever I start File Manager, the status bar is not displayed, even though it is selected in the options menu. If I deselect it, then select it again, the bar appears. Anyone have any ideas why this is happening? Thanks Mike ",2 "How to make simplest possible composite widget? Not being an Xt programmer by any stretch of the imagination, this is driving me crazy and it's probably really simple to do. I need to make a composite widget that does nothing at all but is merely a placeholder in a widget instance heirarchy -- allowing me an additional resource name level. To illustrate I have an application with the following widget heirarchy: Shell Widget | Application Widghet I want the following: Shell Widget | Intermediate Widget | Application Widget where the intermediate widget has a name but gets all its other properties (and propagates down new values) from the shell widget. I assume there's a simple way to do this but I can't find an example and the documentation I have is rather vague about implementing composite widgets. Please respond via email. Any help will be very much appreciated. jim frost jimf@centerline.com ",5 "re: Help with WinQVT I had a similar problem - try changing the netmask to 0.0.0.0 or 255.255.254.0 Tommy. ",2 "Re: CD-ROM multisession In article <1pgifo$efb@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> gary@ah3.cal.msu.edu writes: >As I said ""I know a multisession CD-ROM is necessary if you do more photos..."" >BUT what if it is just a writable CD-ROM drive and do a second ""session"" >do you need one for that too? If you write a second time to a CD you need to have multi-session capability to read the second session. Whether it is photos or just data or whatever. Here is a simplified way of looking at it: The first session has the directory structure burned at some tracks. The second session has a newer directory structure, but the first directory still exists, because you cannot change, only add. So if you put that in a 'normal' drive and it will only look to the first directory and think it has found all data. Multisession kindof means that the drive will look for the last directory written to the disc, older systems look only for 'the' directory, not taking multiple directories into account. Lex van Sonderen Philips Interactive Media ",4 "Help needed on installing 2nd IDE HD.. greetings.. I'm a novice in messing comp. hardware. My original IDE HD is a 42MB Western Digital which came with the system when I bought it. And I just got a 213MB IDE HD Maxtor that I wanted to add as a slave drive. I did change the jumper settings on 213A Maxtor to configure it as slave drv, but I didn't change anything on my 42M Western Dig, since I didn't have any doc. on it. And as I predicted, It just beeped and gave me an error message about HDD controller. So, I had to take my 42M off & install my 213A to be my only HD. any help on this matter would be much appreciated. (before I trashed my 42MB) Thankx much Handy Trisakti - uc532838@mizzou1.missouri.edu ",3 "ESPN really sucks big time so all us hockey/automobile racing fans all know exactly where we stand ESPN delays the martinsville race by a day for the NFL draft ESPN shows baseball instead of the overtime of a NHL playoff game gimme a break, guys => >>Does anyone know why this race is tape delay? Especially until Monday??? => >Is this the weekend for the NFL draft? => >If so, postponing the race for a day is => >a real slap in the face for racing fans. => I'm afraid you're right (as usual). As I recall they've been doing this => ever since they started covering the draft live. I wish they could work => out some kind of a deal with somebody else such as TNN to get the race => on live, but I guess ESPN isn't much into sharing. It also clarifies => where auto racing stands on their priority list (as if we didn't already => know ;-) -- charlie shub cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU -or- (719) 593-3492 on leave at the University of Iowa cdash@cs.uiowa.edu (319) 335-0739 ",10 "Re: Inflatable Mile-Long Space Billboards (was Re: Vandalizing the sky.) In article , yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes: |> >NASA would provide contractual launch services. However, |> >since NASA bases its charge on seriously flawed cost estimates |> >(WN 26 Mar 93) the taxpayers would bear most of the expense. This |> >may look like environmental vandalism, but Mike Lawson, CEO of |> >Space Marketing, told us yesterday that the real purpose of the |> >project is to help the environment! The platform will carry ozone |> >monitors he explained--advertising is just to help defray costs. |> |> This may be the purpose for the University of Colorado people. My |> guess is that the purpose for the Livermore people is to learn how to |> build large, inflatable space structures. |> The CU people have been, and continue to be big ozone scientists. So this is consistent. It is also consistent with the new ""Comercial applications"" that NASA and Clinton are pushing so hard. |> |> >Is NASA really supporting this junk? Did anyone catch the rocket that was launched with a movie advert all over it? I think the rocket people got alot of $$ for painting up the sides with the movie stuff. What about the Coke/Pepsi thing a few years back? NASA has been trying to find ways to get other people into the space funding business for some time. Frankly, I've thought about trying it too. When the funding gets tight, only the innovative get funded. One of the things NASA is big on is co-funding. If a PI can show co-funding for any proposal, that proposal has a SIGNIFICANTLY higher probability of being funded than a proposal with more merit but no co-funding. Once again, money talks! -- H.D. Stevens Stanford University Email:hdsteven@sun-valley.stanford.edu Aerospace Robotics Laboratory Phone: (415) 725-3293 (Lab) Durand Building (415) 722-3296 (Bullpen) Stanford, CA 94305 Fax: (415) 725-3377 ",14 "Plus minus stat >Post: 51246 of 51422 >Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey >From: j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David) >Subject: Plus minus stat >Organization: University of Western Ontario >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 04:42:11 GMT >Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca >Lines: 165 >I'm not defending Bob Gainey...frankly, I don't care for him all >that much. But your dismissal of him as something less than an >effective hockey player is tiresome...it has no basis in >anything. How many Calders did he win? I think it was four (go ^^^^^^^ Ooops...that should read Selke...forgive me for my insolence. congenially, as always, jd -- James David j3david@student.business.uwo.ca j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David) Western Business School -- London, Ontario ",10 "Re: Selfish hockey fans.. : In article <1993Apr21.131501@staff.dccs.upenn.edu> filinuk@staff.dccs.upenn.edu (Geoff Filinuk) writes: : > : > On Tuesday, when it was raining in Chicago, ESPN provided : >bonus hockey coverage. Now it seems as though some fans are ticked off : >that the NY-Wash OT was replaced with the Angels-?? game. People must : >realize that there are more baseball fans instead of hockey fans in the U.S : >The baseball game was scheduled to air and advertisers money was paid so : >they can't skip the baseball game. Why don't you people CHILL OUT : >and enjoy whatever coverage you can get. Well, partly because I, as an ardent fan of both sports, would rather see Game 3 of the NHL playoffs than Game 3 of 162 of the MLB season (even if the bb game involves the Red Sox). ESPN may have had contractual obligations. I understand that part. But it's a bit inaccurate to call us ""selfish"" just because we want to watch the watch the game we love. Am I, as a baseball fan, ""selfish"" when I get pissed a CBS for showing approximately one game per month? I don't think so. While, ESPN may have contractual obligations, we, as their consumers, have a right to voice our displeasure with how they are serving us. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Bri Farenell farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu + + AHL, ECAC and Boston Bruins contact for rec.sport.hockey + + Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81 '86 '89 '92 + + Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66 '91 '93 + + Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90 '91 + + AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ",10 "Re: Long term Human Missions In article <1993Apr28.133101.25145@rpslmc.edu> rek@siss81 (Robert Kaye) writes: > >Just a few contributions from the space program to ""regular"" society: > >1. Calculators >2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan) Sorry to split hairs, but I just read in ""The making of the atomic bomb""(*) that teflon was developed during world war 2. A sealant was needed for the tubing in which uranium hexafluoride passed as it was gradually enriched by difussion. UF6 is very corrosive, and some very inert yet flexible material was needed for the seals. >3. Pacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988) Alejo Hausner (hausner@qucis.queensu.ca) (*) Richard Rhodes, ""The making of the atomic bomb"", Simon and ",14 "Re: Gilligan's island, den of iniquity beb@pt.com (Bruce Buck) writes: : In article <1993Apr13.011033.23123@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes: : >: >> Gilligan = Sloth : >: >> Skipper = Anger : >: >> Thurston Howell III = Greed : >: >> Lovey Howell = Gluttony : >: >> Ginger = Lust : >: >> Professor = Pride : >: >> Mary Ann = Envy : > : >Assorted Monkeys= Secular Humanism : : Assorted Headhunters - Godless, Heathen Savagery : Russian Agent who looks like Gilligan - Godless Communism : Japanese Sailor - Godless Barbarism : Walter Pigeon - Godless Bird Turd : The Mosquitos (Bingo, Bango, Bongo, Irving) - Godless Rock'n'Roll : Harold Heckuba (Phil Silvers) - Hollywood Hedonism : John McGiver - Butterfly flicking : Tonga, the Fake Apeman - Deceit, Lust : Eva Grubb - Deceit, lust ",19 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article markp@elvis.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes: >>Atoms are not objective. They aren't even real. What scientists call >>an atom is nothing more than a mathematical model that describes >>certain physical, observable properties of our surroundings. All >>of which is subjective. > >Omigod, it's an operationalist! Sorry, Jim, but the idea that a theory >explaining a myriad of distinctly different observations is merely a >""model"" is more than sensible people can accept -- your phobia about >objective reality notwithstanding. The point about its being real or not is that one does not waste time with what reality might be when one wants predictions. The questions if the atoms are there or if something else is there making measurements indicate atoms is not necessary in such a system. And one does not have to write a new theory of existence everytime new models are used in Physics. Don't forget to prove your last sentence, namely that sensible don't accept that. Benedikt ",19 "Re: Discussions on alt.psychoactives Re: serious discussion about drugs vs. ""Where can I get a good bong, man?"" Why not have the group moderated? That would eliminate some of the idiots. ",13 "Re: subliminal message flashing on TV lihan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bruce G. Bostwick) writes: >Well, yes and no. The _image_ can't be on the screen less than 1/30 >of a second, but a _mixture_ of images that's about 90% of the field >that was supposed to be there and 10% of the 'subliminal' addition >could be overlaid for one field, producing the same overall effect to >our sluggish retinae of a discrete image projected for 1/300 second. This is a 1950s idea. Supposedly, splicing in a frame of ""Buy popcorn"" upped popcorn sales in a movie theatre. Big flap at the time. Congress involved. Talk of making it illegal. General agreement by networks not to do it. A few years ago, some junior person at an advertising agency re-invented subliminal projection and one commercial went out on tape with single-frame messages. It aired on a few stations, but a tech at one station, previewing the tape, noticed a flicker and looked at the tape frame-by-frame to find the ""defect"". Big flap. FCC notified. Commercial pulled. Press reports. Embarassed ad agency. You could probably find the press reports via Dialog or Nexis if you wanted. Now that everybody has VCRs, it's not likely that anybody could get away with this on TV. John Nagle ",12 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. This has been an interesting thread to follow... and obviously this group wasn't intended as a forum for the discussion of piracy... Has anyone seen any estimates of the lost revenue due to pirates? I was wondering if piracy is more rampant in Home or Corporate computing environments. I would tend to think that business environment ""piracy"" is the major contributor to this form of lost revenue. So many companies will purchase a few copies of a software package and then employees will internally distribute them as if they owned a site-license! What do you guys think? ",12 "Re: Too fast In article <1qh61m$b6l@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes: >It's a bit hard to ""prove"" a point like this, but I can compare the I was hoping for something like ""The chassis exhibits X degrees of flex when subjected to forces of more than Y units. Forces of more than Y units begin to manifest at Z miles per hour."" Not ""Well, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast because, uhh, well, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast. It's not a Porsche, you know"". >come with better seatbelts, more supportive seats, a stronger >passenger compartment cage, better brakes, a stiffer suspension, >different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero >effects to keep the car on the ground. What *do* they come with? Well, as compared to the normal Taurus, the SHO comes with more supportive seats,better brakes,a stiffer suspension, different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero effects to keep the car on the ground (or at least I think that's what all that boy-racer plastic is for). You're kidding yourself if you think any car on the road has a passenger compartment made to withstand 130 MPH impacts. >Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed Oh, right. Only 120,000 dollar cars should be driven fast. They drive goddamn Rabbits at 120 MPH in Europe, pal, and I reckon a Taurus is at least as capable as a Rabbit. >certainly haven't convinced me. Of course not. ""Speeding-is-bad. Speeding-is-illegal. I-will-not-speed. I-love-Big-Brother."" You had your mind made up already. It's interesting that lots of the roads out west had *NO* speed limits until 1975. wr ",7 "Re: Is it illegal to transmit encrypted data? steve-b@access.digex.com (Steve Brinich) writes: > > I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that point. NSA will *not* > >tell RSA or any other non-DOD entity anything that its eavesdropping > >reveals. > I don't know about that; they might if they find it the most expedient >way to keep people from using something they can't crack. Let's put it this way, they have a charter and several executive orders to obey, among other things which *explicitly* prohibit sharing this information (unless things have changed withing the last little while). I suppose they could ignore it, if they choose. But I doubt they would. For an authoritative look at the NSA, get Bamford's ""The Puzzle Palace"". That's all I can say. Ralph ",11 "Re: Expansion In article patrick@blanco.owlnet.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey) writes: >On Fri, 2 Apr 1993 22:05:16 GMT, vamwendt@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Michael Wendt) said >>16. Albany (New York), Boise (Idaho)--A couple of cities with fair interest >>but size and closeness to other teams is a question. >Albany has their AHL franchise (though it goes by the Capital District label), >but Boise? Forget it. The CHL made an attempt at that part of the country in >1983-84, with a franchise in Great Falls -- and no one showed up. Folks up in >that part of the PNW just aren't interested in hockey. Hey Patrick, the Montana Magic played in Billings, not Great Falls... >--PLH, I know where I'd put the next two NHL expansion teams: Phoenix and >Houston, assuming the Whalers don't pack up and move in the meantime... Marc, Phoenix and Houston it is... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _/_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _ _ _____ _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ - - /____/ ............................................................................... Marc Foster, r.s.h contact for the Oklahoma City Blazers, 1993 Central Hockey University of Oklahoma Geography Department League Adams Cup Internet: mfoster@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu Champions mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu To be placed on the CHL Mailing List, send email to either address above. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",10 "Re: Microsoft DOS 6.0 Upgrade for sale In article ahall@fmrco.com (Andrew Hall) writes: >In article sasjhc@maxwell.unx.sas.com (Joe Croos) writes: > > |> yuanchie@eve.usc.edu (Yuan-Chieh Hsu) writes: > |> > |> > MS DOS 6.0 Upgrade for sale best offer over $45 > |> > (opened, unregistered) > |> > |> Gee, my copy of PC Magazine states that the upgrade is retailing for $49.99... > > Egghead, across the street, sells it for $47.49 and I'm going that way > after work :-> > >CompUSA has it for 38.xx, in Boston. I will sell it for $33 including shipping... -- Walter G. Seefeld | By the dawn's early light, 940 N. Jackson St. #1A | By all I know is right, Starkville, MS 39759 | We're going to reap what we have sown. N5QXR | -Jackson Brown ",6 "Number for Applied Engineering Anyone have a phone number for Applied Engineering so I can give them a call? Steven Langlois slang@bnr.ca ",4 "Re: Internet resources In article , STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU writes: > I am taking a course entitled ""Exploring Science Using Internet"". > For our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources > dealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was > wondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet > that provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that. Do you know of the world-wide-web? This is a global hypertext (well, hypermedia) network running on the internet. One of the nice things about it is that is understands and incorporates virtually all of the other systems being used, like WAIS, Gopher, FTP, Archie, etc. It is usually quite easy to add existing resources to the web. If you'd like to explore, I'd suggest getting the XMosaic program, written at the NCSA. It's an X-windows web browser, and is pretty slick. It can understand and cope with more than text: gif, jpeg, mpeg, audio, etc. There are other browsers, including a text-mode browser for people stuck on a text terminal, but I'm most familliar with mosaic. Under the page ""The World-Wide Web Virtual Library: Subject Catalogue"" (this is available under the Documents menu in mosaic, or by any browser via the URL http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/DataSources/bySubject/Overview.html ) there is a subject ""Space Science."" Currently this points to a page under construction, with only the NASA JPL FTP archive. I've volunteered to take over this page, and in fact I have a replacement with all sorts of information pointers (mostly gleaned from the sci.space FAQ). As soon as the overworked ""Subject Catalogue"" maintainer switches the ""Space Science"" pointer, it'll be visible. I'll post a short note when this happens. -- Frederick G. M. Roeber | CERN -- European Center for Nuclear Research e-mail: roeber@cern.ch or roeber@caltech.edu | work: +41 22 767 31 80 r-mail: CERN/PPE, 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland | home: +33 50 20 82 99 -- ""Sorry, baby, I can't take you to the pizza joint tonight, I've got to go back to the lab and split the atom."" -- Ayn Rand, ""What is Romanticism?"" ",14 "Help with porting screensaver function This is a question aimed at those who have done some server code hacking: I am attempting to add a working SaveScreen function to a new server. I have been able to get the screen to blank out properly, and through debugging I can see that my savescreen function is being called with on=0, which (for some arcane reason) means to blank the screen. My problem is that this function is never being called again with on=1, even after I have moved the mouse and/or typed some keys. My question is: what am I likely to be missing that would cause this problem? I copied the basic design of my function from the existing versions: static Bool next_savescreen(scr,on) ScreenPtr scr; Bool on; { /* this was copied from the omron server code -- is it the right way? */ if (on != SCREEN_SAVER_ON) { nextSetLastEventTime(); } if (on == SCREEN_SAVER_ON) { /* Save user's current setting */ next_save_screen_brightness = NXScreenBrightness(my_eventhandle); NXSetScreenBrightness( my_eventhandle, 0.0); /* Blank the screen */ } else { /* Unblank the screen */ NXSetScreenBrightness( my_eventhandle, next_save_screen_brightness); } return TRUE; } I can see in the server/os code where the screensaver is called to turn on the saver, but I cannot find where it ""wakes up"" the server and unblanks the screen. Any tips/help would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Douglas Scott (805)893-8352 Center for Computer Music Research and Composition University of California, Santa Barbara Internet: (NeXTMail ok) ",5 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article <1qjt76$ll@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >In article margoli@watson.IBM.com (Larry Margolis) writes: >>In <1qid8s$ik0@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >|>>I recently have become aware that my health insurance includes >|>>coverage for abortion. I strongly oppose abortion for reasons of >|>>conscience. It disturbs me deeply to know that my premiums may >|>>be being used to pay for that which I sincerely believe is >|>>murder. I would like to request that I be exempted from abortion >|>>coverage with my health premiums reduced accordingly. >|>> >>Reduced? Abortion is a lot cheaper than pre-natal care and birth. >>If you wanted to pay the higher premiums that would result if everyone >>using their health insurance to pay for an abortion instead elected to >>carry to term, I'm pretty sure that your insurance carrier would be >>happy to take your money. >>-- >>Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet) >Larry, >One pays insurance to pay for coverage one expects/fears one might need. >If one is opposed to abortion, one should not be required to pay for >""coverage"" of it because one will NEVER want to use that ""service"" and >neither should that person be COMPELLED to pay for other people's >abortions PARTICULARLY if one sincerely believes that abortion is >murder. > Does someone _force_ you to carry health insurance? I will NEVER want to use my insurance to pay for prostate surgery either, do you think I should be COMPELLED to pay for other people's glandular problems when I ain't got one? muriel standard disclaimer ",19 "Motif++ and Interviews Hi, I am in the process of making the decision whether I should write c++ wrappers for motif myself or use Motif++ or Interviews. Though I have downloaded the tar files, I fail to see any documentation. I have two questions: 1) If you have used these or similar c++sy toolkits what has been your experience? 2) Where do I find reference books /documentation for them? any and all input will be greatly appreciated. /unmesh ",5 "Re: X protocol packet type In article <93091.144124DEP@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes: >Is there a way to identify an X-protocol packet under DECNET? Under >TCP/IP? > The information in the packets isn't necessarily distinctive -- you need to know that it is an X11 connection. -- Ethan ",5 "PC Transporter FOR SALE Hello All, I have a PC Transporter for sale. It will work with either an Apple IIe or a GS. However, I only have the GS installation kit. This PCT also has a co-processor installed. It comes with the latest software (2.05) and a 3.5 drive. So what you get is : PC Transporter (no problems runs great) Installation kit for above PCT (GS) with video tape instructions All needed harware with color adapter for monitor 8087 co processor installed on board All manuals and software (ver 2.05 AEPC) one 3.5 800K drive to hook to the PCT (or GS) Brian Laakso Send me your reasonable offers.... email blaakso@ub.d.umn.edu ",6 "Re: what to do with old 2 {Jason Haines} said ""what to do with old 256k"" to on 04-15-93 04:38 JH> I was wondering if people had any good uses for old JH> 256k SIMMs. I have a bunch of them for the Apple Mac JH> and I know lots of other people do to. I have tried to JH> sell them but have gotten NO interest. How about collecting them all together (IE everyones) and selling them as a lot? The other thing is to give to a recycler. JH> So, if you have an inovative use (or want to buy JH> some SIMMs 8-) ), I would be very interested in hearing JH> about it. If they are free and you can send them real cheap! I would be intrested in them. hehehe Are these 2 chip or 8 chip devices what speed? JH> I have seen RAM disc storage devices but they have been JH> very pricey (plus I am still a little worried about having data JH> stored on RAM). Why? Do you use a RAM disk? :) Stephen Cyberman@Toz.Buffalo.NY.US Mangled on Fri 04-16-1993 at 19:58:29 ... Badgers... we don't need no steenking Badgers! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ",12 "Re: Minority Abuses in Greece. In article mpoly@panix.com (Michael S. Polymenakos) writes: > Well, ZUMABOT claims just the opposite: That Greeks are not allowing >Turks to exit the country. Now, explain this: The number of Turks in >Thrace has steadily risen from 50,000 in 23 to 80,000, while the Greeks of Dr. Goebels thought that a lie repeated enough times could finally be believed. I have been observing that 'Poly' has been practicing Goebels' rule quite loyally. 'Poly's audience is mostly made of Greeks who are not allowed to listen to Turkish news. However, in today's informed world Greek propagandists can only fool themselves. For instance, those who lived in 1974 will remember the TV news they watched and the newspapers they read and the younger generation can read the American newspapers of July and August 1974 to find out what really happened. There are in Turkiye the Greek Hospital, The Greek Girls' Lycee Alumni Association, the Principo Islands Greek Benevolent Society, the Greek Medical Foundation, the Principo Greek Orphanage Foundation, the Yovakimion Greek Girls' Lycee Foundation, and the Fener Greek Men's Lycee Foundation. As for Greece, the longstanding use of the adjective 'Turkish' in titles and on signboards is prohibited. The Greek courts have ordered the closure of the Turkish Teachers' Association, the Komotini Turkish Youth Association and the Ksanti Turkish Association on grounds that there are no Turks in Western Thrace. Such community associations had been active until 1984. But they were first told to remove the word 'Turkish' on their buildings and on their official papers and then eventually close down. This is also the final verdict (November 4, 1987) of the Greek High Court. In the city of Komotini, a former Greek Parliamentarian of Turkish parentage, was sentenced recently to 18 months of imprisonment with no right to appeal, just for saying outloud that he was of Turkish descent. This duly-elected ethnic Turkish official was also deprived of his political rights for a period of three years. Each one of these barbaric acts seems to be none other than a vehicle, used by the Greek governments, to cover-up their inferiority complex they display, vis-a-vis, the people of Turkiye. The Agreement on the Exchange of Minorities uses the term 'Turks,' which demonstrates what is actually meant by the previous reference to 'Muslims.' The fact that the Greek governments also mention the existence of a few thousand non-Turkish Muslims does not change the essential reality that there lives in Western Thrace a much bigger Turkish minority. The 'Pomaks' are also a Muslim people, whom all the three nations (Bulgarians, Turks, and Greeks) consider as part of themselves. Do you know how the Muslim Turkish minority was organized according to the agreements? Poor 'Poly.' It also proves that the Turkish people are trapped in Greece and the Greek people are free to settle anywhere in the world. The Greek authorities deny even the existence of a Turkish minority. They pursue the same denial in connection with the Macedonians of Greece. Talk about oppression. In addition, in 1980 the 'democratic' Greek Parliament passed Law No. 1091, virtually taking over the administration of the vakiflar and other charitable trusts. They have ceased to be self-supporting religious and cultural entities. Talk about fascism. The Greek governments are attempting to appoint the muftus, irrespective of the will of the Turkish minority, as state official. Although the Orthodox Church has full authority in similar matters in Greece, the Muslim Turkish minority will have no say in electing its religious leaders. Talk about democracy. The government of Greece has recently destroyed an Islamic convention in Komotini. Such destruction, which reflects an attitude against the Muslim Turkish cultural heritage, is a violation of the Lausanne Convention as well as the 'so-called' Greek Constitution, which is supposed to guarantee the protection of historical monuments. The government of Greece, on the other hand, is building new churches in remote villages as a complementary step toward Hellenizing the region. And you pondered. Sidiropoulos, the president of the Macedonian Human Rights Committee, became the latest victim of a tactic long used by the Greeks to silence critics of policies of forced assimilation of the Macedonian minority. A forestry official by occupation, Sidiropoulos has been sent to 'internal exile' on the island of Kefalonia, hundreds of kilometers away from his native Florina. His employer, the Florina City Council, asked him to depart in 24 hours. The Greek authorities are trying to punish him for his involvement in Copenhagen. He returned to Florina by his own choice and remains without a job. Helsinki Watch, a well-known Human Rights group, had been investigating the plight of the Turkish Minority in Greece. In August 1990, their findings were published in a report titled 'Destroying Ethnic Identity: Turks of Greece.' The report confirmed gross violations of the Human Rights of the Turkish minority by the Greek authorities. It says for instance, the Greek government recently destroyed an Islamic convent in Komotini. Such destruction, which reflects an attitude against the Muslim Turkish cultural heritage, is a violation of the Lausanne Convention. The Turkish cemeteries in the village of Vafeika and in Pinarlik were attacked, and tombstones were broken. The cemetery in Karotas was razed by bulldozers. Shall I go on? Why not? The people of Turkiye are not going to take human rights lessons from the Greek Government. The discussion of human rights violations in Greece does not stop at the Greek frontier. In several following articles I shall dwell on and expose the Greek treatment of Turks in Western Thrace and the Aegean Macedonians. It has been reported that the Greek Cypriot administration has an intense desire for arms and that Greece has made plans to supply it with the tanks and armored vehicles it has to destroy in accordance with the agreement reached on conventional arms reductions in Europe. Meanwhile, Greek and Greek Cypriot officials are reported to have planned to take ostentatious measures aimed at camouflaging the transfer of these tanks and armored vehicles to southern Cyprus, a process that will conflict with the spirit of the agreement on conventional arms reduction in Europe. An acceptable method may certainly be found when there is a will. But we know of various kinds of violent behaviors ranging from physical attacks to the burning of buildings. The rugs at the Amfia village mosque were dragged out to the front of the building and burnt there. Shots were fired on the mosque in the village of Aryana. Now wait, there is more. 'Greek Atrocities in the Vilayet of Smyrna (May to July 1919), Inedited Documents and Evidence of English and French Officers,' Published by The Permanent Bureau of the Turkish Congress at Lausanne, Lausanne, Imprimerie Petter, Giesser & Held, Caroline, 5 (1919). pages 82-83: << 1. The train going from Denizli to Smyrna was stopped at Ephesus and the 90 Turkish travellers, men and women who were in it ordered to descend. And there in the open street, under the eyes of their husbands, fathers and brothers, the women without distinction of age were violated, and then all the travellers were massacred. Amongst the latter the Lieutenant Salih Effendi, a native of Tripoli, and a captain whose name is not known, and to whom the Hellenic authorities had given safe conduct, were killed with specially atrocious tortures. 2. Before the battle, the wife of the lawyer Enver Bey coming from her garden was maltreated by Greek soldiers, she was even stript of her garments and her servant Assie was violated. 3. The two tax gatherers Mustapha and Ali Effendi were killed in the following manner: Their arms were bound behind their backs with wire and their heads were battered and burst open with blows from the butt end of a gun. 4. During the firing of the town, eleven children, six little girls and five boys, fleeing from the flames, were stopped by Greek soldiers in the Ramazan Pacha quarter, and thrown into a burning Jewish house near bridge, where they were burnt alive. This fact is confirmed on oath by the retired commandant Hussein Hussni Effendi who saw it. 5. The clock-maker Ahmed Effendi and his son Sadi were arrested and dragged out of their shop. The son had his eyes put out and was then killed in the court of the Greek Church, but Ahmed Effendi has been no more heard of. 6. At the market, during the fire, two unknown people were wounded by bayonets, then bound together, thrown into the fire and burnt alive. The Greeks killed also many Jews. These are the names of some: Moussa Malki, shoemaker killed Bohor Levy, tailor killed Bohor Israel, cobbler killed Isaac Calvo, shoemaker killed David Aroguete killed Moussa Lerosse killed Gioia Katan killed Meryem Malki killed Soultan Gharib killed Isaac Sabah wounded Moche Fahmi wounded David Sabah wounded Moise Bensignor killed Sarah Bendi killed Jacob Jaffe wounded Aslan Halegna wounded....>> Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: eXpEn$iVe MOTOROLA Handheld Radio For Peanuts! Jeff Later writes: > MOTOROLA EXPO VHF 2WATT/2CHAN. HT--------[new]-------$1200.00 > Would like $400, or BEST OFFER!!! I'm sure that the Motorola is worth it, but this kind of thing has always mystified me. $400 is the price of very good, new dual-band, fully synthasized HT. Yes, yes, I know Motorola HTs are bullet-proof, unbreakable, plutonium-based indestructable -- you can drive a tank over them and they'll still work. But just how often does that come up? Why are hams willing (and they *are*) to spend the price of a synthaszied dual-bander for a 2-channel xtal rig??? Note: this is not a flame; as I said, I'm sure this is a good deal for this rig. I'm just amazed that it *is* a good deal. I would have guessed that a 2 channel xtal rig could never be worth as much as a dual- bander to a ham, no matter how durable. Just shows you how wrong *I* can be. Mike, N4PDY ****************************** * These are my opinions only.* ****************************** ",6 "Re: more on radiosity amann@iam.unibe.ch (Stephan Amann) writes: >In article 66319@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, xz775327@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Xia Zhao) writes: >> >> >>In article <1993Apr19.131239.11670@aragorn.unibe.ch>, you write: >>|> >>|> >>|> Let's be serious... I'm working on a radiosity package, written in C++. >>|> I would like to make it public domain. I'll announce it in c.g. the minute >>|> I finished it. >>|> >>|> That were the good news. The bad news: It'll take another 2 months (at least) >>|> to finish it. Please note that there are some radiosity packages in my Resource Listing (under the Subject 3: FTP list) Greetings, Nick. -- Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece HOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578 USENET Editor of comp.graphics Resource Listing and soc.culture.greece FAQ NTUA/UA ACM Student Chapter Chair - we're organizing a small conference in Comp. Graphics, call if you're interested to participate. -- Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece HOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578 ",1 "Re: Cannibalism was Albert Sabin In article zxmkr08@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (C ornelius Krasel) writes: >In pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes: > >>In article <1pk2d0$7q1@access.digex.net> >>huston@access.digex.com (Herb Huston) writes: >>>In article pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes : >>>}Do you have any examples of ritual cannibalism, particulary amongst the >>>}primates? >>>Why the ""ritual"" qualifier? > >>I was thinking of instances were a particular food or foods or drinks >>are used to symbolize or ritualize cannibalism. Do you know of any human >>cultures that have this type of mythology? For example, where one might >>eat a food as representative of the body of a god, thus ritualized >>cannibalism in the absence of the original. > >I know of ritual cannibalism among tribes in Papua-Neuguinea (?). >They used to eat the brain of killed opponents. Sometimes these brains >contained infectious agents which lead to a disease called ""Kuru"". >Since cannibalism was banished by the government, the number of Kuru >cases has dropped sharply. > Oh, yeah? Well---*I* know of .... Anyways, cannibalism is much more commmon than those who feel that it is wrong (and then point out that the fact that western civilisation doesn't do it is PROOF positive that we are more advanced) would have us believe. Cannibalism is often used in funeral ceremonies as a way of keeping the deceased loved one alive. Many other cultures (including many American Indian cultures) eat/ate the flesh of slain enemies, often as a way of showing respect for the valor of the departed. Hearts are often favored for this, as it contains the spirit. Have you ever read or seen ""Alive"", which is the story of the Argentinian boys soccer team that crashed in the Andes and then ate the bodies of those who died in order to survive? Finger lickin good. How about the Twighlight Zone episode ""To Serve Man""? If you want more info on this, a good place to start is on sci.anthropology Now send me $20 and eat my flesh, Dan lovall@physics.purdue.edu ",19 "Re: WH proposal from Police point of view In article strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: There has been extensive discussion in the eff forum, for example, about inadmissible taps being used to develop information that could then lead to admissible evidence. This might put a stop to such things, which must from time to time be simple fishing expeditions. Far more likely, these things will continue to be done no matter what assurances we are given. ""Key Escrow"" is likely going to prove to be a joke. -- Perry Metzger pmetzger@shearson.com -- Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui meme. ",11 "**WANTED: 120M Hard Drive** I am in the market for a 120M hard drive! I have a IIsi with 5/80 and I am almost all filled up! Is anyone selling any HD's for the Mac for cheap? Where can I get one through mail order and where is the best place to buy from for the best prices? Is there anyone on the net or on this newsgroup that sells them for wholesale or cheaper? Any info would be appreciated! Thanks! ",4 "Pecota (Braves) Could someone out there send me Pecota's stats for the last few years, or something to give me some sort of ""feel"" for what kind of player he is? My mind has no handle on him at all, it bothers me. Pecota of the Braves, that is. Pretty meaningful that I can't even come up with his first name, I think.. -- Ken Yousten ""If at first you don't succeed, try again. Blacksburg, VA Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it."" yousten@atlantis.csos.orst.edu W.C. Fields ",9 "Re: Players Rushed to Majors I don't know if you could call him rushed, but ""Big"" Ben McDonald didn't much time at all in the minors. Of course that was because the balls used in AAA had seams too large and gave McDonald blisters forcing him to go on the DL several times. He's done most of his learning here in the majors. Of course Gregg ""Wild Thing"" Olson and Mike ""Deserved a Cy Young"" Mussina didn't spend much time in the minors either. I read somewhere that pitchers are less likely to need that much time in the minors anyway so maybe that has something to do with it. Let's go O's! Why Not? Admiral Steve ""Still reliving Sept. 30, 1989"" Liu ____________________________________________________________________________ |Admiral Steve C. Liu Internet Address: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu| |Commander-In-Chief of the Security Division of the Pi Club - Earth Chapter| | President of the Earth Chapter of the Pi Club - Founded April 1990 | |1993 World Champions - Baltimore Orioles - Why Not? - Series in the Yards| | 1992-1993 Stanley Cup Champions - Washington Capitals | | ""Committee for the Liberation and Intergration of Terrifying Organisms | | and their Rehabilitation Into Society, the only problem is that the | | abbreviation is CLITORIS."" from the ""Polymorph"" episode of Red Dwarf | |*****The Bangles are the greatest female rock band that ever existed!*****| | This sig has been brought to you by... Frungy! The Sport of Kings! | |""My God man, drilling holes through his head is not the answer!"" Dr. McCoy| |""You know, Susanna Hoffs has a really nice ass."" - comment by M. Flanagan | | The Pi Club - Creating the largest .signatures for the past nine months | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",9 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians My recollection of History/Documentary books is slitely different. It is my understanding that Croats were allies of Germany during WWII, while Serbs had sided with Russia. As a result Serbs did take a beating from Croats (NOT Bosnian Moslems) while Germany had the upper hand. Even today, Russians consider/call Serbs as their Slovac brothers. This is one of the issues involved in the U.N.'s lack of active intervention against Serbs. As for the Bosnian Moslems, I have not heard of any alliance with Germany or Russia in recent history. Therefore, I am curious if they did or were able to treat other parties in this conflict with same brutallity (as they are getting it today) in the past history. Regards; Ramin Moshiri ",17 "Error beeps on boot I am servicing a machine (HP-286) and whenever the thing starts up I get 4 beeps on powerup. Does anyone know what error message that signifies? I don't seem to have any problem with the machine but the lady who is using it is ""very concerned"" about it. Don't you just love HP computers??? Preferr responses by E-mail but I read the net so you can post it here. ------- andrew ACS Micro-Computer & Network Technical Support University of Maryland Baltimore County andrew@HotelCA.tech.umbc.edu ",3 "FOR SALE: Hit Movies on VHS I have the following prerecorded VHS tapes for sale. All are in great shape and are being sold since I have replaced all of them with laserdiscs: Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back Return of the Jedi Batman Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade E.T. If you are interested in any of these titles, please mail me an offer. ",6 "Re: Discussions on alt.psychoactives In article <0fpzY=S00WBOM2Vn1u@andrew.cmu.edu> ""Charles D. Nichols"" writes: >>From: herzog@sierra.lbl.gov (Hanan Herzog) >>Subject: Discussions on alt.psychoactives >>Date: 20 Apr 1993 19:16:25 GMT >> >>Could the people discussing recreational drugs such as mj, lsd, mdma, etc., >>take their discussions to alt.drugs? Their discussions will receive greatest >>contribution and readership there. The people interested in strictly >>""smart drugs"" (i.e. Nootropics) should post to this group. The two groups >>(alt.drugs & alt.psychoactives) have been used interchangably lately. >>I do think that alt.psychoactives is a deceiving name. alt.psychoactives >>is supposedly the ""smart drug"" newsgroup according to newsgroup lists on >>the Usenet. Should we establish an alt.nootropics or alt.sdn (smart drugs & >>nutrients)? I have noticed some posts in sci.med.nutrition regarding >>""smart nutrients."" We may lower that groups burden as well. > >I beg to disagree with you on this subject. If I recall correctly, >alt.drugs was being flodded by posts like ""how do I grow MJ"" ""How do I >use a bong?"" ""wow, man, I just had the coolest trip"" etc... There were >quite a few people out there who were versed in pharmacology and biology >who wanted to discuss centrally active substabces at a higher level >without all the other crap filling the bandwidth. I would suggest >that you proceed to create a newsgroup dedicated to Nootropics if you >must have one dedicated to them, and leave alt.psychoactives to the >discussion of psychoactives (including nootropics, which are but a small >portion of the realm of centrally active substances). I was wondering if a group called 'sci.pharmacology' would be relevent. This would be used for a more formal discussion about pharmacological issues (pharmacodynamics, neuropharmacology, etc.) Just an informal proposal (I don't know anything about the net.politics for adding a newsgroup, etc.) [more alt.psychoactives stuff deleted] -marc andersom@spot.colorado.edu ",13 "Re: Biblical Backing of Koresh's 3-02 Tape (Cites enclosed) In article <20APR199301460499@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (stephen) writes: >Seems to me Koresh is yet another messenger that got killed >for the message he carried. (Which says nothing about the Seems to be, barring evidence to the contrary, that Koresh was simply another deranged fanatic who thought it neccessary to take a whole bunch of folks with him, children and all, to satisfy his delusional mania. Jim Jones, circa 1993. >In the mean time, we sure learned a lot about evil and corruption. >Are you surprised things have gotten that rotten? Nope - fruitcakes like Koresh have been demonstrating such evil corruption for centuries. -- The Old Frog's Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse'f, Ryugen Fisher (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island with public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac ",19 "Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu> sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall) writes: Farr's ERA is in the > 20s or 30s, and Howe's is.....infinite. (I didn't think such > a thing was possible, but it is). Actually, according to USA today, Howe has 1 inning atttributed to him, but maybe that is incorrect. By the excellent report. ",9 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes: >13th SS Divison, made primerily of Bosnian Muslim _volunteers_, did >quite a job in the former Yugoslavia during WWII. These folks are now >in their 60's-70's. Makes me wonder how many of them occupy positions That is the result of watching anti-Muslim 'SDPA' Nazis/crooks/idiots too much. Still covering up the crimes of your fascist Armenian grandparents and Nazi Armenian parents? Not a chance. As early as 1934, K. S. Papazian asserted in 'Patriotism Perverted' that the Armenians 'lean toward Fascism and Hitlerism.'[1] At that time, he could not have foreseen that the Armenians would actively assume a pro-German stance and even collaborate in World War II. His book was dealing with the Armenian genocide of the Muslim population of Eastern Anatolia. However, extreme rightwing ideological tendencies could be observed within the Dashnagtzoutune long before the outbreak of the Second World War. In 1936, for example, O. Zarmooni of the 'Tzeghagrons' was quoted in the 'Hairenik Weekly:' ""The race is force: it is treasure. If we follow history we shall see that races, due to their innate force, have created the nations and these have been secure only insofar as they have reverted to the race after becoming a nation. Today Germany and Italy are strong because as nations they live and breath in terms of race. On the other hand, Russia is comparatively weak because she is bereft of social sanctities.""[2] [1] K. S. Papazian, 'Patriotism Perverted,' (Boston, Baikar Press 1934), Preface. [2] 'Hairenik Weekly,' Friday, April 10, 1936, 'The Race is our Refuge' by O. Zarmooni. In April 1942, Hitler was preparing for the invasion of the Caucasus. A number of Nazi Armenian leaders began submitting plans to German officials in spring and summer 1942. One of them was Souren Begzadian Paikhar, son of a former ambassador of the Armenian Republic in Baku. Paikhar wrote a letter to Hitler, asking for German support to his Armenian national socialist movement Hossank and suggesting the creation of an Armenian SS formation in order ""to educate the youth of liberated Armenia according to the spirit of the Nazi ideas."" He wanted to unite the Armenians of the already occupied territories of the USSR in his movement and with them conquer historic Turkish homeland. Paikhar was confined to serving the Nazis in Goebbels Propaganda ministry as a speaker for Armenian- and French-language radio broadcastings.[1] The Armenian-language broadcastings were produced by yet another Nazi Armenian Viguen Chanth.[2] [1] Patrick von zur Muhlen (Muehlen), p. 106. [2] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900 Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 124 and 129. The establishment of Armenian units in the German army was favored by General Dro (the Butcher). He played an important role in the establishment of the Armenian 'legions' without assuming any official position. His views were represented by his men in the respective organs. An interesting meeting took place between Dro and Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler toward the end of 1942. Dro discussed matters of collaboration with Himmler and after a long conversation, asked if he could visit POW camp close to Berlin. Himmler provided Dro with his private car.[1] A minor problem was that some of the Soviet nationals were not 'Aryans' but 'subhumans' according to the official Nazi philosophy. As such, they were subject to German racism. However, Armenians were the least threatened and indeed most privileged. In August 1933, Armenians had been recognized as Aryans by the Bureau of Racial Investigation in the Ministry for Domestic Affairs. [1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 112-113. Need I go on? Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Proof of the Viability of Gun Control In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > Correct. You'd have to be very unfamiliar with US history to > think that we have substantially fewer rights today than in > in 1932. The police could generally get away with a lot more > in those days, there were few citizens and media ""watchdog"" > organizations, no ""Miranda"" rulings, and women, blacks, gays, > and other such groups had very few right indeed. Actually, we _do_ have fewer rights: Those that remain are better protected, but things like property rights have vanished amlost without a trace. Frank Crary CU Boulder ",18 "Need help/info on Hard Drive terms Hi all. I've been installing a new hard drive recently and have run into several terms that I'm not sure about. 1.) Hard Sectored/Soft Sectored -- What's the difference? How do I know which to use? 2.) Head Skew & Cylinder Skew -- I understand that these are related to performance... How do I know what's optimal? My drive is an ESDI drive, if that makes a difference in discussing these terms. Any info/help is greatly appreciated! David (carlson@ucunix.san.uc.edu) ",3 "Re: REPOST: Tape Drives (4mm, 8mm) for sale. Acorn Software, Inc. has 3 tape drives (currently used on a VMS system) for sale. These are all SCSI tape drives and are in working condition. WangDat 1300 4mm $500.00 WangDat 2600 4mm (compression) $650.00 (SALE PENDING) Exabyte 8200 8mm $650.00 (SALE PENDING) Plus shipping and COD. Certified checks only, please. These units are sold as is and without warrantee. Contact me if you're interested. -- Dick Munroe Internet: munroe@dmc.com Doyle Munroe Consultants, Inc. UUCP: ...uunet!thehulk!munroe 267 Cox St. Office: (508) 568-1618 Hudson, Ma. FAX: (508) 562-1133 GET CONNECTED!!! Send mail to info@dmc.com to find out about DMConnection. ",6 "Re: MR2 - noisy engine. In article , eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes: >if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do >except to sell it and get a V6. Perhaps a nice used '88 Pontiac Fiero GT? 2.8 liters. Does anyone know if the motor mounts for the 2.8 and the twin-dual-cam 3.4 liter match? The 3.4 is supposedly derived from the pushrod 3.1, which was a punched out 2.8 liter. Should be a drop-in replacement, eh? 205 horses in a mid-engine the size of a Fiero? Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. Need you ask? - Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want, it is the freedom to do whatever we are able. ",7 "Re: 17"" Monitors mreamy@rock.concert.net (Michael G Reamy -- Support) writes: >>and they too said that the Nanao T560i was the best monitor to get if >>you had the money. But they also said that the Mitsubishi Diamond Pro >>17 is the next best choice and that it has superb picture quality. >>This monitor can be had for around $1070. >> >>Has anyone actually seen any of these? >I am responsible for choosing standard components in my company and as part >of my review i got the Viewsonic 7, Mitsubishi 17, and Nanao F550is. I picked >the F550i even though it costs more than the other two choices because it >has a the best clarity and text is not fuzzy at all. The Viewsonic 7 is the >worst, the Mitsubishi 17 is much better but the Nanao F550i blows both of >them out of the water. I don't understand why the Nanao is so much better >since one would think that the Mitsubishi 17 with it's Trinitron tube would >be better. I can only imagine that the Nanao T560i must be incredible if it >is beter than the F550i. >-- >Michael G. Reamy (mreamy@rock.concert.net) >The light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming dragon. One of the monitors I reviewed for the June issue of Windows Magazine was the Mitsubishi. I also reviewed a new Nanao, the F550iW, which has just been released. Last year for the May '92 issue of Windows, I reviewed several monitors, including the Nanao T560i. There's no question that the Nanao monitors are the best available this year, just as they were last year. The difference between my ranking of the best in Windows and the ranking in Windows Sources is due mainly to a difference in the testing criteria and the scoring. I used different tests than they did, and I scored differently. There's nothing wrong with the Mitsubishi, and it scored very highly in my tests, but it was a few points shy of perfect. Incidentally, one of the things everyone should do when they're reading reviews of any product, whether it's monitors or mice, is to read the criteria and methodology carefully. Unless you know how the product testing was done, and on what the scores are based, you can't possibly know what they really mean. Just seeing that I rank a monitor differently from Windows Sources is meaningless without knowing how we did the ranking. Likewise, it's impossible to tell whether a monitor will meet your needs unless you know how we did the testing. After all, some of what we do may not apply to you. Likewise, some of what we do may apply more closely in one review than in another. You can't always tell anything from reading the 300 or so words of commentary we write if you don't also understand the scoring. Wayne Rash ",3 "Re: wife wants convertible : nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes: : : > : > HELP!!! : > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car. : jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes: : : FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they : thought were the best cars for '93. In the convertible category, the : Honda Civic del Sol achieved this honor. : : The one down-side I see with the car is its interior, it looks : inexpensive and dull. : I own a del Sol and I must vouch for the interior. I really looks snazzy when the top is off. I looks a lot better in person than on the television. (I saw that Motorweek as well. Needless to say I was smiling a bit by the time it was over ...) :*) Watch out for that darned ""convertible tan"" tho... Diane dspalme@mke.ab.comm ",7 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qkjvc$4jv@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article <1qk1md$6gs@kyle.eitech.com> ekr@kyle.eitech.com (Eric Rescorla) writes: >#In article <1qjbn0$na4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >#>Really? You don't know what objective value is? If I offered the people >#>of the U.S., collectively, $1 for all of the land in America, would that >#>sound like a good deal? >#Well, that would depend on how much we wanted the US and how much >#we wanted the $1, wouldn't it? >Yes it would. Luckily these parameters are fixed by reality. If I can >predict with almost 100% accuracy that Americans prefer to own their portions of >the US than an infinitesmal portion of $1, in what sense are these values >not objective? No, I don't see what the popularity of a value has to do with whether it is objective or not. Pls. explain. > I don't think I'm way off beam in saying that ""something is >better than nothing"" is a rational and objective valuation. Nope. No tetanus is better than tetanus. > Do you agree >with me then that the assertion ""no values are objective"" is false? No. -Ekr -- Eric Rescorla ekr@eitech.com Would you buy used code from this man? ",19 "Re: Possible Canadian WC Team? nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes: > >CENTERS >Mark Messier, N. Y. Rangers Messier was not invited due to his nagging injuries. While the press made an issue of it, and attempted to link it to the Rangers' internal political woes, Mike Keenan repeated that to Messier personally during the MSG press conference. It makes sense ... Messier would probably have not declined the invitation if it were made for publicity ... gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",10 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <1r0v4c$i1j@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes: > In <1r0poqINNc4k@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com writes: > > > In article zed@Dartmouth.EDU (Ted > > Schuerzinger) writes: > > Well, it's now Tuesday morning. Where are those two arsons, now? I said > > yesterday they would vanish, and there has been no further mention of them, > > just the desired ""impression"" is left. > > According to KIKK radio in Houston, all nine survivors are either in hos- > pitals or in jails. Inlucding the two who allegedly helped start the firess. In the FBI briefing, no mention was made of having the fire starters in custody. > > > Why could no one else even talk to them? Why could Koresh's grandmother not > > talk to him or even send him a taped message? Why the total isolation? > > Well, it wasn't TOTAL, 100% isolation. After the lawyer snuck in the first > time, they (the FBI, etc) let him go back inside several times, including, I > think, the day before the final assualt. > Why not his mother? Why not the media? > semper fi, > > Jammer Jim Miller > Texas A&M University '89 and '91 > _______________________________________________________________________________ _ > I don't speak for UH, which is too bad, because they could use the help. > ""Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."" > ""Power finds its way to those who take a stand. Stand up, Ordinary Man."" > ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph -- jmd@handheld.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""I'm always rethinking that. There's never been a day when I haven't rethought that. But I can't do that by myself."" Bill Clinton 6 April 93 ""If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms,-never--never--never!"" WILLIAM PITT, EARL OF CHATHAM 1708-1778 18 Nov. 1777 ",16 "Re: Insurance and lotsa points... In article <13386@news.duke.edu>, infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew Infante) writes: |> Well, it looks like I'm F*cked for insurance. |> |> I had a DWI in 91 and for the beemer, as a rec. |> vehicle, it'll cost me almost $1200 bucks to insure/year. |> |> Now what do I do? |> Go bikeless. You drink and drive, you pay. No smiley. Mike Beavington mbeaving@bnr.ca *opinions are my own and not my companies'. ",8 "Re: med school John Carey (jcarey@news.weeg.uiowa.edu) wrote: : Actually I am entering vet school next year, but the question is : relevant for med students too. : Memorizing large amounts has never been my strong point academically. : Since this is a major portion of medical education -- anatomy, : histology, pathology, pharmacology, are for the most part mass : memorization -- I am a little concerned. As I am sure most : med students are. : Can anyone suggest techniques for this type of memorization? I : have had reasonable success with nemonics and memory tricks like : thinking up little stories to associate unrelated things. But I have : never applied them to large amounts of ""data"". : Has anyone had luck with any particular books, memory systems, or : cheap software? : Can you suggest any helpful organizational techniques? Being an : older student who returned to school this year, organization (another : one of my weak points) has been a major help to my success. : Please no griping about how all you have to do is ""learn"" the material : conceptually. I have no problem with that, it is one of my strong : points. But you can't get around the fact that much of medicine is : rote memorization. : Thanks for your help. The only suggestion i can think of off the top of my head is get a large supply of index cards and memorize small amounts of info at a time, making flash cards and quesitons. Everytime i get a question wrong I always manage to get the damn thing right the next time -- /\ _ /\ | Felix The Cat | 0 0 |-------\== The Wonderful, Wonderful Cat! \==@==/\ ____\ | =============================== Meow!--- \_-_/ || || hoss@panix.com ",13 "Re: Whither QuickDraw Performance (across product line) In daves@xetron.com (Dave Steele) writes: >The fastest QuickDraw color performing computer Apple makes is the >(drumroll please) LCIII. And the Color Classic ranks right up there with >the Quadra line. The Centris line pales in comparison. >Does anybody know the differences in these computers that explains the >disparity in graphics/processor performance? I think you are suffering from some alignment or color table or problems, if a Color Classic is as fast as a Quadra rendering to screen. What screen card you use does of course matter much (built-in video is almost always faster than NuBus) Or you measured ""scroll entire screen"" where the Color Classic had a VRAM 10"" screen in 4-bit color and the Quadra had a 21"" 24-bit screen on NuBus :-) Cheers, / h+ -- -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe -- This sig less than 3 lines: Improve the UseNet S/N ratio! ",4 "Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time In article <24485@drutx.ATT.COM> klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL) writes: >In article , callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes: >| In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes: >| >In article <1q4466INNb85@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes: >| >> >| >>It's a big aftermarket business. Almost no cars come from the factory with >| >>vynal any more, and any fake ""convertible"" job _definitely_ came from some >| >>aftermarket place. What amazes me is how much people are willing to pay for >| >>bad taste >| > >| >How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the >| >trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars? >| >| Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit, >| named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I >| personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit >| (and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful >| cars ever built, IMHO. >| >| James >| > >The Continental may have been the first ""modern era"" auto to mount the >spare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one. >Various mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common >in early automobiles, both US and Foreign. The 1941 Lincoln Continental was the first car to sport the ""continental kit."" The continental kit is not to be confused with ye olde outside mounting bracket; a continental kit is a very specific ornament/storage compartment. (The 1941 Continental has a neat trunk; it looks rather like a laundry hamper, IMHO. :-) James James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work... The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC ""It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has and all he's ever gonna have."" --Will Munny, ""Unforgiven"" ",7 "Re: Krillean Photography In article <20APR199315574161@vxcrna.cern.ch> filipe@vxcrna.cern.ch (VINCI) writes: > How about Kirlian imaging ? I believe the FAQ for sci.skeptics (sp?) > has a nice write-up on this. They would certainly be most supportive > on helping you to build such a device and connect to a 120Kvolt > supply so that you can take a serious look at your ""aura""... :-) > > Filipe Santos > CERN - European Laboratory for Particle Physics > Switzerland Please sign the relevant documents and forward the remaining parts to our study 'Effect of 120 Kv on Human Tissue wrapped in Film'. Thanks for your support... *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*==*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= *Dr. Thomas Trusk * * *Dept. of Cellular Biology & Anatomy * Email to ttrusk@its.mcw.edu * *Medical College of Wisconsin * * *Milwaukee, WI 53226 DISCLAIMER (ala Foghorn Leghorn):* *(414) 257-8504 It's a joke, son. A joke I say! * *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*==*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= ",13 "X-Server documentaion Where can I get documentation about the X-Server-Internals? BTW, I'm also interested in documentation about TIGA. Any hints welcome. Thanks, rainer. -- Rainer Hochreiter | Telephone: +43 (1) 89100 / 3961 ELIN-Energieanwendung GesmbH | Telefax : +43 (1) 89100 / 3387 Penzingerstr. 76 | A-1141 Wien, Austria/Europe | E-mail : rainer@elin.co.at ",5 "Re: freely distributable public key cryptography c++ code: where? Victor Iseli (victori@xetron.com) wrote: : : : ""Numerical Recipes in C""..Fortran..Pascal has a nice section on : encryption and decryption based on the DES algorithm. There is : also source code provided (I think some versions of this book are : distributed with the source code on disk; the source code can : also be ordered from the publisher). : : --Victor Iseli : victori@xetron.com Yes I benchmarked the DES implementation in the Recipes in C book.. it is about 1 1/2 orders of magnitude SLOWER than the Outerbridge/Karn/Gillogly/et al implementation. It may be instructional, but it isn't very fast. -- grady@netcom.com 2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F ",11 "Low voltage lighting and X10 questions. 1. Can low Voltage lights be controlled with an X10 module by putting it before the transformer? It seems to work, even the dimmer works. Not very reliable. Will it damage the module? Can it be done reliably? 2. I put a motion switch (Heath) to a low voltage light, it worked but now it is broken, too much current? How can I get arround that? 3. How can I increase the intensity of a light using the X10 PC computer interface without having it go 100% on first and then down. I am doing my own programing, not the X10 program. Thanks C. Montenegro ",12 "Re: Boston Gun Buy Back > From: urbin@interlan.interlan.com (Mark Urbin) > > >RM:Just a short thought: > >When you ask the question of the ""authorities"" or sponsors of buyback > >programs whether they will check for stolen weapons and they answer > >""no, it's total amnesty"". > Please note that the $50 given for each firearm, in the Boston `buy > back' will not be in cash, but money orders. How much `total amnesty"" can > you get if you leave paper trail behind? In the latest case in Denver, they were giving away tickets to a Denver Nuggets basketball game. How traceable is a money order? (I don't know. Haven't used one in 20 years) Is that even an issue if the weapons aren't checked for being stolen? Ron ",16 "Re: COM4 card shows up as COM3 with COM4's address and IRQ! In article avinash@genesis.nred.ma.us writes: >I have an internal modem that I configure as COM4 with IRQ 3, but >when I insert that card into my DOS 5.02 PC, it shows up >as COM3, with IRQ3 and COM4's address (2E8)! > >When I get into debug, and dump the data at 40:0, it shows >the address 2E8 as belonging to COM3 - even though the modem >should be at COM4. ... This is a common misconception, shared my many manufacturers, programmers, and users alike. COM3, for example, is simply the third equipped COMM port, not necessarily the one with I/O address 3E8. The BIOS just searches sequentially through a set of potential COMM port addresses. The first equipped port it finds will become COM1, etc. If you're playing by the rules, you can't have a COM4 unless you have a COM3 equipped. The set of ""standard"" (whatever that means) port addresses merely reflects the order in which the BIOS searches the I/O address space in its search for serial ports. So, what you have is indeed COM3 at the non-standard address 2E8. Were this address in the 4th table slot instead, programs which query the BIOS to determine the number of installed COMM ports would not find it, as the field in the BIOS data area which contains this number would indicate that there are but 3 COMM ports installed. (Frankly, I don't know of a simgle program that would actually have a problem with this.) -- Bob Nichols AT&T Bell Laboratories rnichols@ihlpm.ih.att.com ",3 "Raichle ski boots for sale, size 11-11.5 I also have a pair of size 11-11.5 Raichle Flexon Comps. These boots are black and yellow. they are in good condition. I would like around $100 for them also but feel free to make an offer. Please reply to: crane@coral.bucknell.edu Thanks, Curt ",6 "Re: IMPALA SS GOING INTO I still can't understand all the hype about the Impalla SS, it STILL has the ugly Caprice body (Orca on wheels). The Caprice was the worst new body style to come out of Detroit EVER! Now just because the LT1 engine and a few suspension tweeks are being added. Its STILL UGLY, its STILL a BARGE. GM's answer to everything is ""throw in a V8 and someone will buy it."" Or ""add some plastic ground affects and a few stickers and call it a GT, GTZ or SS, and someone will buy it."" IMHO GM needs to scrap the Caprice body COMPLETELY and start over with a BLANK sheet of paper. No minor modification (wheel well treatments, tail amp modification, or nose re-design or even the LT1 engine) will help the existing Caprice. Jeff ",7 "Re: Schatzki Ring/ PVC's In article uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland) writes: >In article <1993Apr27.180334@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov>, >ohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov wrote: >> >> The second issue: [summarized] He has had extra heartbeats for the past >3 to 4 years, and once was symptomatic from them, with some >lightheadedness. >He is young, (30-ish), thin and in good >> health (recent bloodtests were all normal), and do not smoke, use drugs or >> caffeine, etc. I'm willing to accept the extra beats as ""normal"", but don't >> want to ignore them if they might be some kind of warning symptom. The number >> of PVC's seems to increase throughout the day, and with exercise (or something >> as simple as climbing some stairs). Also, if I get up after sitting or lying >> down for a while, I tend to get a couple of extra beats. Could they possibly >> be related to the esophagous problems? Both seemed to develop at about the >> same time. > >I' not an expert on heart problems, but PVC's are common and have been >overtreated in the past. My personal experience, and I have the same >history an build you do (related to the heart, that is), is that my PVC's >come and go, with some months causing anxiety. Taking on more fluids >seems to help, and they seem worse in the summer. Remember that a slow >heart rate will allow more PVC's to be apparent, so perhaps it is an >indication of a healthy cardiac system (but ask an expert about that >last point, especially) I too have had premature ventricular heartbeat, starting in 1974. (These are not, by the way, ""extra"" heartbeats. This is how they feel, and this is how I described them initially to the doctor, but they're actually *premature* heartbeats. I would sometimes experience a lapse after one of these that went on for a suffocatingly long period of time, making me wonder if my heart were ever going to beat again.) I had them persistently for eighteen years. Then I went on a low-fat diet, and they just stopped. I haven't had a single episode of PVH for almost two years. I know: correlation does not imply causation. This is just FWIW. --Barbara ",13 "Help with 3C503 and NCSA Telnet Help! I'm trying to configure NCSA Telnet v2.3.05 to work with a 3C503 ethernet board. I can use FTP fine, but whenever I attempt to use Telnet, the machine hangs with a blank screen and a blinking green cursor. Any ideas? Please e-mail: lepper@maat.mct.anl.gov mjlepper@mtu.edu ",3 "Re: BMW battery : In article <1993Apr14.181352.6246@ra.msstate.edu> vech@Ra.MsState.Edu (Craig A. Vechorik) writes: : >If I remember correctly, the reason that BMW's come with those expensive, : >and relatively worthless, short lived Varda batteries, is 'cause BMW owns : >a controling interest in that battery Manufacturer. : What's wrong with the BMW battery? I've never had problems and I know : numerous people that are still using the original battery in there : 8-10 year old beemers. THe original battery in an 8-10 year old BMW may be fine. Mine lasted many years. The replacement 30AH battery from BMW was a disaster. The mechanic from Comp. Acc. told me that CA would warantee replace the bad one with a new one of the same evil bad batteries and tell the customer if they have problems to bring it back and they'd do it again. It seems that many of those 30AH batteries were DOA, near-DOA, and always unlikely to be going strong by the end of the warantee period on them. THere was a big batch of bad ones, and they replaced them with -you guessed it - more bad ones. BMW switched to a 25AH battery that has more cold cranking amps, even if it has less total juice. I switched to a YUASA that has even more cold cranking amps and cost one third fewer dollars. Neil Kirby DoD #0783 nak@archie.cbusa.att.com AT&T Bell Labs Columbus OH USA (614) 860-5304 If you think I speak for AT&T you might have more lawyers than sense. ",8 "Re: IDE vs SCSI >: >>I almost got a hernia laughing at this one. >: >>If anything, SCSI (on a PC) will be obsolete-> killed off by Vesa Local >: >>Bus IDE. It must be real nice to get shafted by $20-$100 bucks for the >: >>extra cost of a SCSI drive, then pay another $200-$300 for a SCSI controller. First off, with all these huge software packages and files that they produce, IDE may no longer be sufficient for me (510 Mb limit). Second, (rumor is) Microsoft recognizes the the importance of SCSI and will support it soon. I'm just not sure if it's on DOS, Win, or NT. At any rate, the deal is with Corel who makes (I hear) a good cohesive set of SCSI drivers. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Ashley |DISCLAIMER: My opinions. 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I have trouble understanding the >JPEG Group's code that I got from an FTP site. If any one can send me >some good code, I will appreciate it a lot! Thanks! The problem is that the process is inherently complicated ! The IJG's code is pretty good if you ask me, and I have watched it go through many many cycles of revision. Try getting a good book on the subject, that will explain the algorithms. Specifically ""JPEG Still Image Compression Standard"" by Pennebaker & Mitchell, VNR 1993, ISBN 0-442-01272-1. BTW. I presume your comment about ""good"" code wasn't meant to sound as offensive as it does. --- David A. Clunie (dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au) ",1 "2 PowerBook Questions 1. Why, or how actually, can a Powerbook have a 640 x 400 pixel display, regardless if it is a 9"" or 10"", and still keep the 72 dpi resolution? (I assume that it doesn't, and I don't mean to imply they *all* have these dimensions) 2. Any info on price drops or new models (non-Duo) coming up? Thanks, JT ",4 "Re: Newsgroup Split In article nerone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Michael Nerone) writes: >From: nerone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Michael Nerone) >Subject: Re: Newsgroup Split >Date: 20 Apr 93 08:59:51 >In article <1quvdoINN3e7@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>, tdawson@engin.umich.edu (Chris Herringshaw) writes: > > CH> Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in > CH> favor of doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of > CH> graphics by reading this group, from code to hardware to > CH> algorithms. I just think making 5 different groups out of this > CH> is a wate, and will only result in a few posts a week per group. > CH> I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum for > CH> discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way? > CH> Just curious. > >I must agree. There is a dizzying number of c.s.amiga.* newsgroups >already. In addition, there are very few issues which fall cleanly >into one of these categories. > >Also, it is readily observable that the current spectrum of amiga >groups is already plagued with mega-crossposting; thus the group-split >would not, in all likelihood, bring about a more structured >environment. > >-- > /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ > / Michael Nerone \""I shall do so with my customary lack of tact; and\ > / Internet Address: \since you have asked for this, you will be obliged\ >/nerone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu\to pardon it.""-Sagredo, fictional char of Galileo.\ Maybe I should point out that we are not talking about c.s.amiga.*. Only comp.graphics. Arff ""Also for the not religous confessor, there is a mystery of higher values, who's birth mankind - to the last - builds upon. They are indisputible. And often disregarded. Seldom you hear them beeing prized, as seldom as you hear a seeing man prizeing what he sees."" Per Lagerkvist, The Fist (Free translation from Swedish) --Andreas Arff andreasa@dhhalden.no-- ",1 "Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?) In article <1quqlgINN83q@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes: > My definition is this: Science is the investigation of the empirical >that avoids mistakes in reasoning and methodology discovered from previous >work. Reading this definition, I wonder: when should you recognize something as being a ""mistake""? It seems to me, that proponents of pseudo-sciences might have their own ideas of what constitutes a ""mistake"" and which discoveries of such previous mistakes they accept. -- Kristoffer Eriksson, Peridot Konsult AB, Stallgatan 2, S-702 26 Oerebro, Sweden Phone: +46 19-33 13 00 ! e-mail: ske@pkmab.se Fax: +46 19-33 13 30 ! or ...!mail.swip.net!kullmar!pkmab!ske ",13 "Re: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter? Comet P/Helin-Roman-Crockett also spent some time as a temporary satellite to Jupiter a few years ago if you believe the calculations by Tancredi, G., Lindgren, M. and Rickman, H.(Astron. Astrophys., 239, pp. 375-380, 1990). -- ------------------------------------------------------------- | Mats Lindgren | Mats.Lindgren@astro.uu.se | | Astronomical Observatory | 21619::laban::ml | | Box 515 | | | 751 20 Uppsala | Phone (+46) (0)18 51 35 22 | | Sweden | Fax 52 75 83 | ------------------------------------------------------------- ",14 "Netware server 286a and s *** On 04-19-93 03:53, Wayne Mcdougall had the unmitigated gall to say this: WM> The software is Netware 286 Level II and I can see burnt on to the WM> screen SFT Netware 286 Level II V2.0a. However, to configure netware WM> for level II (mirrored or duplexed disks) requires a second disk, yes? Yes. Mirroring requires a controller that is capable of writing to two disks at once. Duplexing, which is the preferred way of mirroring, uses two controller cards and two disk drives. Duplexing requires a special card and two identical disk drives (in most cases). Duplexing can sometimes be pulled off with slightly different drives/controllers, as long as the sizes are the same. WM> So how is the Novell Server 286A normally configured? The configuration is completely up to the user. WM> 1. Can I install SFT Netware 286 Level II V2.0a as Level I, or is this WM> what is causing my serialization error? If you only have one disk, then you can't use Level II SFT. However, the OSOBJ disk has a serial number on it, and if this disk is for a different version of NetWare then you would get a serialization error. Make sure that this disk actually belongs to the rest of the set of floppies in the NetWare installation set. WM> 2. Is the Novell Server 286A normally equipped with two hard drives, WM> one of which has failed? Two drives could be either two netware volumes at SFT I, or one volume mirrored using SFT II. Impossible to tell with the network being down. WM> 3. Would this mean I can not install the network software because it WM> will not be serialized for this hardware with a failed drive? Try disconnecting the failed drive, using a standard disk controller, and installing the software as one volume under SFT I. If the software will install, and if the one disk is functional, then it should be able to work in this configuration. WM> 4. What else can cause a serialization error? See the comment concerning the serial number on the OSOBJ installation floppy. WM> 5. What happens if the keycard fails? What is the keycard attached to? ... Line noise provided by South Central Bell! --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",3 "Print from within an application Hi, I have an application which draws graphs, bar charts etc. I need to include print support for these from within my application i.e. a user can print the graphs from within the applictaion by clicking on a print button. I am not sure if I can invoke xwd & xpr from within my application and specify the window id to get my window dump and then send this file for printing or if there are other ways of doing this. I would appreciate any help in this regard. Thanx. - Mahendra. PS : Please mail your replies to me as I am not a regular reader of this news group. I will post a summary if there is sufficient interest. -- *************************************************************************** Mahendra Chheda # mmc@cs.rit.edu # mmc7274@ritvax.isc.rit.edu # # Office : # Residence : Dept. of Computer Science # 440 Kimball Drive Rochester Institute of Tech. # Rochester, NY 14623 Tel. 716-475-2079 # Tel. 716-292-5726 *************************************************************************** ",5 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies In article , Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.Edu (John Stafford) writes... >>>>>> On 19 Apr 93 21:48:42 GMT, xlyx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu said: >> Is it possible to do a ""wheelie"" on a motorcycle with shaft-drive? > > Yes, but the _rear_ wheel comes off the ground, not the front. > See, it just HOPS into the air! Figure. >John Stafford Sure you can do wheelies with a shaft drive bike. I had a BMW R100RS that was a wheelie monster! Of course it didn't have the initial power burst to just twist it into the air - I had to pop the clutch. I also had to replace front fork seals a few times as well. The fairing is a bit heavy to be slamming down onto those little stantion tubes all the time. But let me give you fair warning: I trashed the ring/pinion gear in the final drive of my K75 (I assume) doing wheelies. And this was NO cheap fix either!! There is some kind of ""slip"" device in the shaft to prevent IT from breaking. Unfortunately, it didn't save the gears! On the topic of wheelies, the other day I saw a kid on a big Hurricane do a ""stoppy""(?), or rear wheelie. Man, he had the rear end on this bike up about 2 feet off the ground at a traffic light. I don't recommend these activities anymore (now that I'm an ""old guy"" with kids of my own) but it looked damn impressive!! If you can't keep both tires on the ground, at least have 'em pointed in that direction! :-) Cheers, B**2 ",8 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In rocker@acm.rpi.edu (rocker) writes: >In <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >>If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT >>""abortion coverage"" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED >>to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction >>coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage). >You appear to be stunningly ignorant of the underlying concept of health >insurance. Are you any less stunningly ignorant? Have you ever heard of life insurance premiums some companies give in which nonsmokers are charged much smaller premiums than smokers? Not to mention auto insurance being much cheaper for women under 25 than for men under 25, because women on the average drive more carefully than most men--in fact, almost as carefully as I did before I was 25. Peter Nyikos ",18 "Re: When are two people married in God's eyes? In article , rjs2@po.cwru.edu (Richard J. Szanto) writes: > In a previous article, randerso@acad1.sahs.uth.tmc.edu (Robert Anderson) says: > > >I would like to get your opinions on this: when exactly does an engaged > >couple become ""married"" in God's eyes? Some say that if the two have > >publically announced their plans to marry, have made their vows to God, and > >are unswervingly committed to one another (I realize this is a subjective > >qualifier) they are married/joined in God's sight. > > I have discussed this with my girlfriend often. I consider myself married, > though legally I am not. Neither of us have been with other people sexually, > although we have been with each other. We did not have sexual relations > until we decided to marry eventually. For financial and distance reasons, > we will not be legally married for another year and a half. Until then, > I consider myself married for life in God's eyes. I have faith that we > have a strong relationship, and have had for over 4 years, and will be > full of joy when we marry in a church. First, however, we must find a > church( we will be living in a new area when we marry, and will need to > find a new church community). > > Anyway, I feel that if two people commit to marriage before God, they are > married and are bound by that commitment. > > -- > -Rick Szanto Rick has nailed the problem down pretty well. As I can find no Scripture (have I missed it ?) that details when you are married, I have to make some assumptions based on the PRINCIPLES of Scripture. It seems to me that it takes 3 parties to make a marriage: husband-to-be, wife-to-be, and God. If you promise before each other and God that you will convenant together to be married, then...you are (IMO). So why do we have the ceremonial part ? That seems to be there for ""connectedness"" in the Body of Christ. My brothers and sisters ought to be involved so that there can be some accountability on both our parts. That's part of the concept from Hebrews about ""not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together as is the custom of some."" We need each other because Lone Ranger Christians and Lone Ranger Marriages smack of a self sufficiency that the I don't see in the NT. Does anyone see the Paul Simon ""I am a rock, I am an island..."" model anywhere in Christianity. (Song lyrics show your age :-) ) ? Further, since marriage is a legal matter/institution in the USA and many other places, and such laws do not specifically go crosswise to the clear teachings of Scripture, we ought to obey them to avoid even the appearance of ""evil"" (I Thess 5:22) So this would imply at least a civil ceremony before marriage, but keep in mind we are at least doing all of this for the conscience of others because back to the beginning...you are married when you and your intended promise each other and God to be in convenant. (IMO) What ch'all think ? Bobby - akgua!rjb [In some states, the kind of commitment described in Richard Szanto's posting can create a common law marriage. Indeed his posting itself might go a long way towards establishing that a marriage exists, should the issue ever end up in court. He might want to consult a lawyer who is familiar with common law marriage in his state. --clh] ",15 "PC TOOLS 8.0 PC TOOLS 8.0 all original disk & manual registration card included disk size 3.5"" price $60 + shipping Martin x90mahdiarwi@gw.wmich.edu ",6 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. bferrell@cicada.occ.uc.edu (Brett Ferrell) writes: > In article <1993May13.015407.24313@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilm\ > er) writes: > >found there were actually two surveys. One of randomly selected ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >resellers, one of randomly selected users from the 6 upgrade ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >registered user database. Both surveys showed a 93% positive > >rating. > > > >-jen If JD Power and Associates did the survey, I would like an anonymous ftp site to pick it up at. Only a sucker believes an MS released survey results about an MS product. Ok--assume that the results of the survey, whatever they are, are 100% honest. If the results indicated extreme dissatisfaction with the product, is MS going to tell us to stop buying MS-DOS 6.0 because it sux? :-) Sure.... > *** Would it not be fair to say that the relatively few people who have decided > to purchase 6 would be inclined to like it. Just as those of us who love OS/2, > most of the people who but them know (more or less) what to expect and are not > disappointed. I mean, it is nice to know that the people who bought it are > happy (and important for MS to know) and I don't dispute the accuracy. I just > would hate to see people extrapolate from that population that DOS 6 is the > next computer revolution. Well, these ""statistics"" are to shut people up and add some microscopic weight to MS' arguments. As I just said, you have seen what automakers do. Who is going to believe Chrysler if they tell us, ""In a 'random' Chrysler-conducted survey..."" My theory about certain people is that they are convinced that if a point is maintained long enough, it is true. After all, what is the focus of this company? Information. Money and information. Technology is, for some, an expedient toward these ends. Why did Bill Gates drop out of college? Was it because he couldn't afford it at the time? Was it because (as the WSJ says) he couldn't wait to use what he knew to go out and make money? Bill Gate's answer to this question would be highly interesting. I await it. I can't stomach Bill declaring himself a visionary and using every available opportunity to build up the cult around himself and then having MS sell DOS and Windoze as their main stays. --------------------------------------------- |kenton+@CMU.EDU | OS/2 FIXES BROKEN WINDOWS | --------------------------------------------- ",2 "Re: Printing In article <1993Apr15.053905.16811@sarah.albany.edu> me9574@albnyvms.bitnet writes: [advertises his printing business] Oh, dear. Let me be the first on my block. You have just violated one of the major shibboleths of the Usenet groups: you're not supposed to use a newsgroup to plug your own commercial enterprise (of _any_ kind; people frequently get flamed for announcing they've got a new book out.) I don't know whether this is an official Usenet rule or just a long- standing custom, and it doesn't make much difference from a practical point of view. So please don't do it again. And all you others, who are even now taking keyboard in hand to flame him off the face of the earth--lay off. He didn't know any better. He does now. Dorothy J. Heydt UC Berkeley cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu Disclaimer: UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any. ",6 "A graphic design newsgroup??? Which newsgroup discusses graphic design on PCs and macs? Y'know like with Corel Draw?? ",1 "Re: Soundblaster IRQ and Port settings pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes: >Interesting. Would you care to explain to me then, how my SoundBlaster >Pro card and my printer card are sharing IRQ 7 successfully? I assure >you that they are both set to IRQ 7 and that I have no problem. My >computer is a DTK 286-12 IBM clone. Running MS-DOS or a derivative OS, obviously. Please take note that the following is not what exactly happens, but a slightly simplified explanation. Technically, the IRQ line is only a means for the device (printer adapter, SoundBlaster, modem, hard disk, ...) to signal the CPU that ""Something's happening here, please take note."" How the CPU is programmed to handle this signal is usually up to the operating system. In MS-DOS, the ""interrupt vector"" is used to store the address of the function that handles each interrupt. Now, basic DOS doesn't care whether the printer reports that it's ready to print some more stuff or not - it simply ignores the interrupt. When DOS prints, it looks at the LPT buffer. If there's a character there, wait a while and check again. If there's not, copy a new character to the LPT port. Since the IRQ 7 is ignored as a printer interrupt, it's free for use for any other adapters - in this case, the SB. With any multitasking or otherwise advanced OS, this kind of printing approach just doesn't work (or more precisely, it wastes a lot of CPU cycles.) Hence, you can't ""share"" the IRQ 7 with LPT1 and SB if you're running Unix or OS/2 or whatnot. Another issue with the SB is that only the digitized sound uses interrupts. When the SB plays plain music, the CPU simply tells it what to play until told otherwise. With digitized sound the interrupt is required to notify the CPU when the output ends and new data is needed. You can, however, hook two (or more) COM ports to one interrupt, but use them only one at a time. This is because the interrupt handling routine is same for both ports, and it can see from which port the data came from. This, of course, applies for some other devices (like LPT) as well. Remember, this was greatly simplified in parts, but I think gives the general picture correctly enough. Cheers, -- Juha Liukkonen, aka jliukkon@cc.helsinki.fi University of Helsinki, Dept. of Lost Souls ""Trust me, I know what I'm doing."" - Sledge Hammer ",3 "Re: Are atoms real? (was Re: After 2000 years blah blah blah) kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes: >mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk) wrote: >> What is the difference between a ""_chemist_"" and someone who is taught >> Chemistry at, say, Cambridge University? > > Put like this, I can't answer. I was originally pointing out that your > attitude _seemed to be_ (I don't know if it really was) that chemists > tend to ignore all kinds of effects; When they're not important, yes. All scientists do. Otherwise science would never get anywhere. > your original posting stated that > when doing chemistry, it is common to ignore atomic interactions, Hang about -- not atomic interactions in general. Just specific ones which are deemed unimportant. Like gravitational interactions between ions, which are so small they're drowned out by electrostatic effects, and so on. >> Has there been some revolution in teaching methods in the last four years? > > Perhaps this revolution has yet to reach Cambridge (my, now I'll get > flamed for sure;-) ). Oh, probably. They still make people memorize equations and IR spectra. Maybe in a few decades they'll discover the revolutionary ""data book"" technique. Bitter and twisted, mathew ",0 "very cheap 386 motherboard Novell 386dx16 motherboard with cpu, 4 megs of memory and I/O ports for $160 + shipping / firm. let me know if you are interested. ailin 803-654-8817 ",6 "Re: Red Sox mailing list query In article , Robert Ward writes: > >A friend in England is looking for a Red Sox mailing list. If you know >of such a list, could you please send me mail with some info? Thank you. > I would be veru interested also, if there is one. Could someone please send me some info? -Dan -ACSDDC@UMASSD.EDU ",9 "Re: Hismanal, et. al.--side effects In article <1993Apr20.212706.820@lrc.edu> kjiv@lrc.edu writes: >Can someone tell me whether or not any of the following medications >has been linked to rapid/excessive weight gain and/or a distorted >sense of taste or smell: Hismanal; Azmacort (a topical steroid to >prevent asthma); Vancenase. Hismanal (astemizole) is most definitely linked to weight gain. It really is peculiar that some antihistamines have this effect, and even more so an antihistamine like astemizole which purportedly doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier and so tends not to cause drowsiness. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer ",13 "Re: How universal are phones these days? I don't know much about phones in Germany, but this is what I know: I bought a phone in the U.S. for my mother who lives in Bratislava, Slovakia and it works just fine. The problem is they don't have wall jacks like we do here. There is a wire without any jack at the end sticking out of the wall. So you need to connect the wires (I'm not sure if they have wall jacks in Western Europe - they may). Hope this helps. Dagmar kniha@carson.u.washington.edu ",12 "Re: Burden of Proof kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: >In article healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) writes: >>> ""FBI officials said cult leader David Koresh may have >>> forced followers to remain as flames closed in. Koresh's >>> armed guard may have injected as many as 24 children with >>> poison to quiet them."" >>> >>Do the FBI have proof of this yet?! > Why ask me? I am only quoting the FBI official. Why not ask the FBI? Myabe they're lying to cover up, or maybe they're telling the truth. At this early date, who can say? But, in an effort to keep talk.origins from turning into the utterly pointless shouting match over this that I see t.r.m has become, I have editted the Followup line of this post, and would appreciate it if others would check the Followup field when posting on this thread. t.o has its *own* things to shout pointlessly about. -- | Steve Watson a.k.a. watson@sce.carleton.ca === Carleton University, Ontario | | this->opinion = My.opinion; assert (this->opinion != CarletonU.opinion); | ""Somebody touched me / Making everything new / Burned through my life / Like a bolt from the blue / Somebody touched me / I know it was you"" - Bruce Cockburn ",0 "Request info on a mystery PC card While rummaging through a box of old PC (5150) parts, I found a half-size board that looks like a comm port board. It was made by Forte Data Systems and has a copyright date of 1986 on it. The board provides a male 24-pin connector and has 3 jumpers of 3 pins each, two labelled A B C. I plugged it into my PC and ran Advanced diagnostics several times, changing the jumper positions each time, but the system did not recognise a comm port. Does anyone have a clue as to what this board might be or how to configure it? I could use another comm port if it's free. Bryan ",3 "Re: Data of skull gary@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Gary Taylor) writes: >Hi, We are trying to develop a image reconstruction simulation for the skull. The problem we are having is that we cannot obtain 3D data for the skull. We can just video a rotating skull, but that will only give us 2 dimensions. >Anyone out there got any suggestions? >Please help >Thanx >Gary >University of the Witwatersrand >Johannesburg You could paint the skull mat white, then do some complicated shading analysis on it. Shopwood ------------- University of Technology, Sydney ",1 "French to English translation of medical terms Dear Netters, I am not sure whether this is the right place to post my query, but I thought there may be some bilingual physicians in this newsgroup that could help. Please, excuse me for overloading the bandwidth. I am trying to build a resource allocation program for managing a surgical operating unit in a hospital. The user interface is in English, however the terms of medical specialties I was given are in French :-( I have no medical dictionary handy, mine is a technical university :-(( I need to get the translation into English (when there is one) of the following words. They refer to medical categories of operating rooms (theaters). I admit they may not be universally ""used"". 1- sceptique 2- orl 3- brulure/brule' 4- ne'onatal 5- pre'natal 6- pre'mature' 7- neurochirurgie (neuro-surgery??) 8- chirurgie ge'ne'rale 9- chirurgie plastique 10- urologie (urology??) Thank you for you help. Cheers, --------- Berthe Y. Choueiry choueiry@lia.di.epfl.ch LIA-DI, Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne, Ecublens CH-1015 Lausanne, Switzerland Voice: +41-21-693.52.77 and +41-21-693.66.78 Fax: +41-21-693.52.25 -------- ps: please reply by e-mail if possible since I scan too quickly through the messages of this newsgroup. ",13 "Re: Subliminal Channels in DSS May I suggest that any any proposed cipher system having less entropy than the user's key and message can have an embedded subliminal channel as big as the difference in entropies between the entropy of the user input (message) and the entropy of the output? For example, take plain DES. The unsuspecting user inputs a string ""PLAINTEXT"" to be enciphered. He cranks the algorithm which has been hacked by George Quisling and comes out with j*3H4902d. Nine char in and nine chars out. Right? The unsepecting user ships the ciphertext to be decrpyted and the message ""PLAINTEXT"" is produced. Everything fine, right? Nope. Imagine the algorithm did a LZ compression on PLAINTEXT before DESing. (Compressing is down to four characters with more entropy: 9#wj The opponent now pads the message with his own message, also compressed *3dk@ before applying DES to the concatenated compressed pairs. When decrpyted, the first compressed message is stripped off and declared sent. Unbeknowst to the receiver, the opponents accomplice collects the remaining message in the bit bucket and uncompresses to KILL NOW. And to prevent all such subliminal or covert storage channels you would need to have maximal entropy all the time -- which is a priori impossible because (for example) a stereotypical message might be replaced by one bit in the output reserving the rest of the output bits for the long covert message. In other words, if you opponent get to muck with the algorithm -- you either have got to muck with it LAST or concede his possible embedding of covert channels. In other words, if you present a message to an opponet with less than maximal entropy then you have given him free bits of storage. -- grady@netcom.com 2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F ",11 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1r3qab$o1v@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >In article <930421.102525.9Y9.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew writes: >#frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >#> In article <930420.100544.6n0.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew >#> writes: >#> #This is complete nonsense. Relativism means saying that there is no absolut >If you are saying that some moral systems are better than others, in >your opinion, then all you get is infinite regress. What you do not get >is any justification for saying that the moral system of the terrorist >is inferior to that of the man of peace. Your saying it does not >make it so, and that's according to your premise, not mine. I've been reading these posts for a while and I still can't figure out what is so terrible about just having an opinion. You seem to imply that admitted your opinion is an opinion precludes you from justifying it or convincing others of its worth -- ridiculous! Dan ",19 "Re: Kyle K. on Rodney King thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes: >In article kkopp@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (koppenhoefer kyle cramm) writes: >> How about the fact that you have a bunch of cops putting their lives on >>the line day in and day out who are afraid as hell of a large black guy that > ^^^^^ >>took a large amount of punishment and refused submit? >I'm curious why you think that particular adjective is important. I'm curious why you took a beign statement and cross-posted it to several different news groups, including something along the lines of alt.discrimination Look Rodney King is black and large. I have several large black male friends,and they are referred to as being large black men ( to their faces, and by themselves ). You know, Ted, I have a large number of adjectives for you, but I will spare you most of them because I try not to get into personal flame wars. Let me just say that I think your action of cross posting this was total BS, and you're trying to start some crap. Hopefully, others will see through your trite little game and not play along. ",18 "Authentication and one-time-pads (was: Re: Advanced one time pad) In article <1s1dbmINNehb@elang05.acslab.umbc.edu> olson@umbc.edu (Bryan Olson; CMSC (G)) writes: >The one-time-pad yeilds ideal security, but has a well-known flaw in >authentication. Suppose you use a random bit stream as the pad, and >exclusive-or as the encryption operation. If an adversary knows the >plaintext of a message, he can change it into any other message. >Here's how it works. > >Alice is sending Bob a plaintext P, under a key stream S >Alice computes the ciphertext C = S xor P, and sends it to Bob. > >Eve knows the plainext P, but wants the message to appear as P'. >Eve intercepts C, and computes C' = C xor P xor P' = S xor P'. >Eve sends C' to Bob. > >Bob decrypts C' by computing C'xor S = P', thus receiving the >false message which was substituted by Eve. Firstly, an aside: I agree that the weakness exists, but I have a lot of trouble believing that it represents a difficulty in real life. Given: 1. the purpose of the one-time pad is to give unbreakable security, and the expense of key distribution etc., imply that the clients really do want that level of security 2. These same people want to keep P a secret I find it hard to believe that Eve might happen to have a copy of P lying around. (I am aware that the same argument applies to Eve knowing even a small part of the message, but Eve must know EXACTLY where (which bytes) in C her known susequence starts, or the result will be garbled. I find this at least as surprising.) Back to the question: If I had the resources to use a one-time-pad for such transmissions, I would also append a Message Authentication Code to the message, using up the next bits of the one-time-pad as the key perhaps. Your original question basically asked whether there was any way to authenticate the message with the same degree of security as the Pad itself provided, and I don't know the answer. However, I would propose the following for discussion. Alice and Bob have an arbitrary number of secret, random bits to share, which Eve doesn't know. She finds them out (effectively) by knowing some P and the corresponding C. It is the fact that they CORRESPOND that causes the problem. If a message authentication code was to be created using some one-time-pad operation such that Eve could not know which parts of the MAC were affected by which parts of the input, she would be unable to forge a MAC to correspond. What is required is a non-linear combiner of parts of the message. (Non-linear so that simply xoring or subtracting or whatever doesn't have exactly the same effect). Now, at the end of the encrypted message C, Alice appends a n-bit MAC computed as follows (S2 means the next full chunk of the one time pad): 1. compute C2 = P xor S2, and pad to an n-bit boundary with more of S 2. break C2 into n-bit chunks 3. set MAC to 0 (initialisation vector) 4. for i in each chunk sequentially set MAC = MAC NLOP C2[i] At the end of this process MAC is the Message Authentication Code. (Bob verifies the MAC in the obvious manner; he recovers the plaintext P, then uses some more of his pad to reproduce the MAC in the same manner.) NLOP is the non-linear operator, and there is the rub. The simplest non-linear operator I can think of is an S-box; that is, have a fixed (even published) permutation of the n-bit integers, an indexable table called Sbox, and use: x NLOP y = x xor Sbox[y]. Practically speaking, I think this solves your problem, as Eve never sees the intermediate output C2, and hence can't deduce S2 or perform any valid substitution on it. Also practically speaking, you want the MAC to be fairly large, say 32 bits, but you might not want a 4 gigabyte (say) S-box, so you might work on 4 byte-sized S-boxes, but I think that is an irrelevant detail for the discussion at hand. Who will be first to point out my errors, or give me a pointer to some literature? -- Greg Rose Australian Computing and Communications Institute ggr@acci.com.au +61 18 174 842 `Use of the standard phrase ""HIJACKED"" may be inadvisable' -- CAA ",11 "Problem with WinQVT/Net 2.81 and DOS 6.0 I have been using WinQVT/Net 2.81 under Win3.1 (dos 5.0) for quite sometime without any problem. I recently installed DOS 6.0 on my 386-40 PC and I cannot run WinQVT/Net any more. I keep getting ""Packet received for invalid port-reset sent"" messages on the console window. I can't get more than 1 telnet window and can't use ftp!!! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, George Kontoravdis (condor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) ",2 "Classic 80's Rock Tapes for Sale!!! Hi there again... I still have a few tapes left... As before they are $2.50 each (postage paid, 1st class). Multiple orders appreciated, but not necessary... Package deals welcome... Thanks... Chris Bray Lewis, Huey|Sports Contains ""Heart of Rock and Roll"", ""Heart and Soul"", ""Want a New Drug"", ""Walking on a Thin Line"", ""If This is It"", and more!!! Hooters: Nervous Night Contains: And We Danced, Day By Day, All You Zombies, Nervous Night... Poison|Look What the Cat Dragged In Their 1st tape. Contains ""Cry Tough"", ""I Wont Forget You"", ""Talk Dirty to Me"", and more! Hall & Oates|Big Bam Boom Contains: ""Out of Touch"", ""Possession Obsession"", and more! Ratt|Out of the Cellar Contains: Wanted Man, Round and Round, and more! Quiet Riot|Condition Critical Contains: Mama Weer All Krazy Now Outfield|Play Deep Contains: Say It Isn't So, Your Love, All the Love in the World, and more! Plant, Robert|Shaken n' Stirred Contains: Little By Little, plus more... Journey|Raised on Radio Contains: Girl Cant Help It, Suzanne, Be Good to Yourself, Ill Be Alright Without You, Why Cant This Night Go On Forever... Duran Duran|Arena Contains: Is There Something I Should Know?, Hungry Like the Wolf, New Religon, Wild Boys, Planet Earth, and more! Monkees|Then and Now - The Best of the Monkees Contains: All their big hits plus some... INXS|Kick Contains: Mediate, New Sensation, Devil Inside, Need You Tonight, Never Tear Us Apart, Mystify, and more! GREAT TAPE.... -- ============================================================================== csb1@engr.uark.edu | Chris Bray cbray@uafhp.uark.edu | University of Arkansas, Fayetteville ============================================================================== I think someone should have had the decency to tell me the luncheon was free. To make someone run out with potato salad in his hand, pretending like he's throwing up, is not what I call hospitality. ============================================================================== ",6 "Re: Where to get ATI card video drivers/fonts? In <1rju4p$hah@access.digex.net> farley@access.digex.com (Charles U. Farley) writes: >Does anyone know where I can ftp or somehow else acquire the latest >video drivers /fonts for an ATI SVGA adapter? The only floppy I have >is for Windows 3.0. Does anyone know if ATI is still in business? >Thanks! >-- >farley@access.digex.com >Average IQ of Calgary Board of Ed. Employee: 65 You can get them from the ATI BBS... It a 416 number... should be on your manuals... If not the tech support number will tell you the bbs number... ",2 "Re: Shaft-drives and Wheelies In article <735660736snz@morgan.demon.co.uk>, tony@morgan.demon.co.uk (Tony Kidson) writes: > > Well maintained chains, running in oil, without those little rubber 'O' rings > to cause frictional losses, might reach 99% efficiency. The average open to > the dust 'O' ring motorcycle chain probably has a difficult job making 90% > efficient. So of the 120 hp produced by my FJ1100 engine, 12 hp * (745.7 watts)/1 hp = 8.948 kilowatts is being dumped into 220 leetle tiny o-rings? That's 40.67 watts per o-ring! Seems a little *hot*, doncha think? :-O Chuck Rogers car377@torreys.att.com ",8 "Tran tube I've got a 4PR1000A (EIMAC) unused transmitter tube for sale. Best offer so far is $125. That's getting close to what I'll sell it for. Hamfest prices have been about $200 - $250. It works, guaranteed. Original packaging. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Medin Phone: (205) 730-3169 (w) SSD--Networking (205) 837-1174 (h) Intergraph Corp. M/S GD3004 Internet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com Huntsville, AL 35894 UUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin * The opinions expressed here are mine (or those of my machine) ",12 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. Where are they? If all of these things have been detected in space, has anyone looked into possible problems with the detectors? That is, is there some mechanism (cosmic rays, whatever) that could cause the dector to _think_ it was seeing one of these things? Graydon ",14 "Bunch-O-PC-Stuff for sale Got a few things I want to get rid of... Paradise EGA480/Casper EGA Monitor 1 12 MHz '286 motherboard (DRAM/SIPP) 1 16 MHz '286 momboard (DRAM only) 1 Hayes ""Prodigy special"" 2400b external modem 1 1Meg SIPP 1 256K SIPP about 2 Megs DRAM (I believe there's 1M of 120ns, and one of 100 or 80ns, but not absolutely sure). Also have an XT with 640K, serial board, Hercules board and amber monitor. The only thing this system is missing is the power supply. Make an offer on any/all of this stuff, and thanx for contributing to Mitch's V.32bis modem fund. Mitch NOTE: Cross-posted to several forsale froups; followups redirected back to me! There's a reason for that - I don't read these groups. -- Mitch Gorman srscnslt@telesciences.com ""Things are not what they seem."" ""Through a crack in Mother Earth, Blazing hot, the molten rock spills out over the land. And the lava's the lover who licks your boots away..."" ",6 "Re: Drinking and Riding cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes: > In article MJMUISE@1302.wats > }I think the cops and ""Don't You Dare Drink & Drive"" (tm) commercials will > }usually say 1hr/drink in general, but after about 5 drinks and 5 hrs, you > }could very well be over the legal limit. > }Watch yourself. > > Indeed, especially if you are ""smart"" and eat some food with your > drink. The food coating the stomach lining (especially things like > milk) can temporarily retard the absorption of alcohol. When the > food is digested, the absorption will proceed, and you will > actually be drunker (i.e., have a higher instantaneous BAC) than > you would have been if you had drunk 1 drink/hr. on an empty stomach. > > Put another way, food can cause you to be less drunk than drinking on > an empty stomach early on in those five hours, but more drunk than > drinking on an empty stomach later in those five hours. > -- > Curtis Jackson cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com '91 Hawk GT '81 Maxim 650 > DoD#0721 KotB '91 Black Lab mix ""Studley Doright"" '92 Collie/Golden ""George > ""There is no justification for taking away individuals' freedom > in the guise of public safety."" -- Thomas Jefferson Again, from my alcohol server's class: The absolute *most* that eating before drinking can do is slow the absorption down by 15 minutes. That gives me time to eat, slam one beer, and ride like hell to try to make it home in the 10 minutes left after paying, donning helmet & gloves, starting bike... -- Dean Woodward | ""You want to step into my world? dean@fringe.rain.com | It's a socio-psychotic state of Bliss..."" '82 Virago 920 | -Guns'n'Roses, 'My World' DoD # 0866 ",8 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >In article <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis [on my posting of two form letters regarding private insurance and abortion coverage] >I just hope you realize that each individual should make their >own judgement, and posting pre-filled letters sounds like you >don't trust your fellow Americans to utter their own opinion, >just your own. > >Cheers, >Kent Kent, Have you ever been part of any activist group or campaign, from Amnesty International, Green Peace, etc onward? Making out form letters and handing out copies to others to send is common among all of these groups. You may not like what I have done, but it is hardly unique. Additionally, I certainly wouldn't mind if people wrote their own letters. I offered a template to work from (IF PEOPLE SO CHOOSE). If not, that is fine too. Again, what I have done is make use of a approach as old as this country itself. dennis dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu ",18 "Re: Save Under with X11R5 Hans Bos (hans@xelion.nl) wrote: : I have the following problem on X11R5 servers. : : When a window of my is obscured by a pop up window which has : the Save Under attribute set, the subwindows of my window are not restored. : Normally, the subwindows are redrawn when the parent window gets an expose : event, but because the save under attribute is used for the pop up window : that obscured my window, no expose event is sent. We had the same problem and on most of our machines it works if we use Backing Store instead of Save under. Marcus ***************************************************************** * Marcus Schnell marcus@iiasa.ac.at * * International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis IIASA * * A-2361 Laxenburg AUSTRIA * * Phone : (+43 2236) 715 21 *487 * * FAX : (+43 2236) 731 48 * * Vice-Commissioner of the Australian Rules Internet * * Football League (ARIFL) 1992, 1993, ... * ***************************************************************** ",5 "The HumBio Project-- call for data and visualizations The HumBio Project: Call for Data and Visualizations The HumBio Project is a CD-ROM-based curriculum tool for sixth-, seventh-, and eigth-graders, studying the function of the human brain and the effects of neurotransmitters, alcohol, and drugs. The will be a special focus in depicting the effects of neurotransmitters on behavior. Volotta Interactive Video is producing this project for Stanford University. We are currently in a pre-production phase and we are looking for data sets and visualizations depicting brain function on the whole brain, neuron and molecular levels. We intend to use state-of-the-art visualization tools to render instructive visualizations from two-, three-, and four-dimensional data sets as well as using already-completed visualizations to their best effect. If you're interested in sharing your data for the purpose of education and supporting the introductions of CD-ROM and scientific visualization technologies into our schools, please e-mail phughes@igc.org. Include your name, organization, and type and format of data you might be willing to provide. We are eager to begin production in the next few months and will be excited to hear from you. Sincerely, Peter Hughes The HumBio Project (The HumBio Project is not in any way affiliated with Apple Computer or IGC.) ",1 "Re: Sexual Proposition = Sexual Harassment? In article <930316.144130.lynn@pcgeo23> lynn@granitt.uio.no (Malcolm Lynn) writes: > >this is a tesrt >s Of your spelling, eh? Dr Zippy. -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Dr Zippy, proof that ""Dum blonde"" isn't a women only title | +------------------------------------------------------------+ ihorton@uk.ac.coventry.cck ",18 "Daily Verse For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, Ephesians 2:14 ",15 "Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction In article <1rhfrkINN816@shelley.u.washington.edu>, nodrog@hardy.u.washington.edu (Gordon Rubenfeld) writes: > banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes: > >>to candida blooms following the use of broad-spectrum antibiotics? Gorden >>Rubenfeld, through e-mail, has assured me that most physicians recognize >>the chance of candida blooms occuring after broad-spectrum antibiotic use >>and they therefore reinnoculate their patients with *good* bacteria to >>restore competetion for candida in the body. I do not believe that this is >>yet a standard part of medical practice. > > Nor is it mine. What I tried to explain to Marty was that it is clearly > understood that antibiotic exposure is a risk factor for fungal infections > - which is not the same as saying bacteria prevent fungal infections. > Marty made this sound like a secret known only to veternarians and > biochemists. Anyone who has treated a urinary tract infection knowns > this. At some centers pre-op liver transplant patients receive bowel > decontamination directed at retaining ""good"" anaerobic flora in an attempt > to prevent fungal colonization in this soon-to-be high risk group. I also > use lactobacillus to treat enteral nutrition associated diarrhea (that may > be in part due to alterations in gut flora). However, it is NOT part of > my routine practice to ""reinnoculate"" patients with ""good"" bacteria after > antibiotics. I have seen no data on this practice preventing or treating > fungal infections in at risk patients. Whether or not it is a ""logical > extension"" from the available observations I'll leave to those of you who > base strong opinions and argue over such speculations in the absence of > clinical trials. > One place such therapy has been described is in treating particularly > recalcitrant cases of C. difficile colitis (NOT a fungal infection). There > are case reports of using stool (ie someone elses) enemas to repopulate > the patients flora. Don't try this at home. > >>not give give her advise to use the OTC anti-fungal creams. Since candida >>colonizes primarily in the ano-rectal area, GI symptoms should be more common >>than vaginal problems after broad-spectrum antibiotic use. > > Except that it isn't. At least symptomatically apparent disease. > >>Medicine has not, and probalby never will be, practiced this way. There >>has always been the use of conventional wisdom. A very good example is >>kidney stones. Conventional wisdom(because clinical trails have not been >>done to come up with an effective prevention), was that restricitng the >>intake of calcium and oxalates was the best way to prevent kidney stones >>from forming. Clinical trials focused on drugs or ultrasonic blasts to >>breakdown the stone once it formed. Through the recent New England J of >>Medicine article, we now know that conventional wisdom was wrong, >>increasing calcium intake is better at preventing stone formation than is >>restricting calcium intake. > > Seems like this is an excellent argument for ignoring anecdotal > conventional wisdom (a euphemism for no data) and doing a good clinical > trial, like: > > AU Dismukes-W-E. Wade-J-S. Lee-J-Y. Dockery-B-K. Hain-J-D. > TI A randomized, double-blind trial of nystatin therapy for the > candidiasis hypersensitivity syndrome [see comments] > SO N-Engl-J-Med. 1990 Dec 20. 323(25). P 1717-23. > psychological tests. RESULTS. The three active-treatment regimens > and the all-placebo regimen > significantly reduced both vaginal and systemic symptoms (P less than > 0.001), but nystatin did not reduce the systemic symptoms > significantly more than placebo. [ . . . ] > CONCLUSIONS. In women with presumed candidiasis > hypersensitivity syndrome, nystatin does not reduce systemic or > psychological symptoms significantly more than placebo. Consequently, > the empirical recommendation of long-term nystatin therapy for such > women appears to be unwarranted. > > Does this trial address every issue raised here, no. Jon Noring was not > surprised at this negative trial since they didn't use *Sporanox* (despite > Crook's recommendation for Nystatin). Maybe they didn't avoid those > carbohydrates . . . > >>The conventional wisdom in animal husbandry has been that animals need to >>be reinnoculated with *good* bacteria after coming off antibiotic therapy. >>If it makes sense for livestock, why doesn't it make sense for humans >>David? We are not talking about a dangerous treatment(unless you consider >>yogurt dangerous). If this were a standard part of medical practice, as >>Gordon R. says it is, then the incidence of GI distress and vaginal yeast >>infections should decline. > > Marty, you've also changed the terrain of the discussion from empiric > itraconazole for undocumented chronic fungal sinusitis with systemic > hypersensitivity symptoms (Noring syndrome) to the yoghurt and vitamin > therapy of undocumented candida enteritis (Elaine Palmer syndrome) with > systemic symptoms. There is significant difference between the cost and > risk of these two empiric therapeutic trials. Are we talking about ""real"" > candida infections, the whole ""yeast connection"" hypothesis, the efficacy > of routine bacterial repopulation in humans, or the ability of anecdotally > effective therapies (challenged by a negative randomized trial) to confirm > an etiologic hypothesis (post hoc ergo propter hoc). We can't seem to > focus in on a disease, a therapy, or a hypothesis under discussion. > > I'm lost! Candida can do that to you. :-) Gordon, I think that the best clinical trial for candida blooms would involve giving women with chronic vaginal candida blooms L. Acidophilus orally and see it it can decrease the frequency and extent of candida blooms in the vagina since most of the candida seems to be migrating in from the anal region and L. acidophilus should be able keep the candida in check if it can make it through the intestinal tract and colonize in the anus where it will have access to oxygen(just like it does in the vagina). As much stuff as there is in the lay press about L. acidophilus and vaginal yeast infections, I'm really amazed that someone has not done a clinical trial yet to check it out. The calcium and kidney stone story is not a good reason to throw all conventional wisdom out the window. Where would medicine be if conventional wisdom had not been used to develop many of the standard medical practices that could not be confirmed through clinical trials? The clinical trial is a very new arrival on the medical scene(and a very important one). The lack of proof that reinnoculation with good bacteria after antibiotic use is important to the health of a patient is no reason to dismiss it out-of-hand, especially if reinnoculation can be done cleaply and safely(like it is in animal husbandry). Marty B. ",13 "Re: Hell_2: Black Sabbath In jprzybyl@skidmore.edu writes: > I may be wrong, but wasn't Jeff Fenholt part of Black Sabbath? He's a > MAJOR brother in Christ now. He totally changed his life around, and Why should he have been any different ""then""? Ozzy Osbourne, ex-singer and main character of the Black Sabbath of good ole days past, is and always was a devout catholic. Or so I've heard over on the alt.rock-n-roll.metal newsgroups, an' I figure those folks oughta know.. -- Disclaimer? ""It's great to be young and insane!"" ",15 "Re: Maxima Chain wax Wheelies ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes: >I would like to offocially nominate Maxima Chain Wax as another >Official (tm) DoD product of choice. Is there an ""official DoD products-of-choice"" list? If so would the appropriate party please post it. -Erc. p.s. If its in the FAQ, keep them to yourself-- I got plenty. Maybe I'll go recheck them now, just to be sure ",8 "Re: WC 93: Results, April 18 In article <1993Apr21.085435.6895@ericsson.se> etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes: OK, here is my try: > The Czech Republic > ------------------ > > Goaltenders: 1. Petr Briza (Finland somewhere, right?) Lukko, Finland (look at the colors of his mask) > Defense: 3. Leo Gudas ? ex-JyPHT, Finland, now in Germany Excellent defenseman > 5. Drahomir Kadlec ? HIFK, Finland > 14. Jiri Kucera ? Tappara, Finland > 19. Tomas Kapusta ? HPK, Finland > 20. Otakar Janecky (Finland?) Jokerit, Finland > 24. Radek Toupal ? HPK, Finland > 26. Jiri Dolezal ? JyPHT, Finland, no new contract JyPHT owns his player rights All of these Czechs (Kadlec, Dolezal not anymore) are very good hockey players. It is a big surprise that Hlinka selected Dolezal. ""Dole"" had a bad season in JyPHT and that's why they didn't make a new contract. The other Czech we had, Jiri Jonak, got fired also. There are lots of Czechs playing in Finland. Darius Rusnak, Igor Liba, Sejba, Svoboda, ... ",10 "Re: quality control in medicine In article <93108.003258U19250@uicvm.uic.edu> writes: >Does anybody know of any information regarding the implementaion of total > quality management, quality control, quality assurance in the delivery of > health care service. I would appreciate any information. If there is enough >interest, I will post the responses. > Thank You > Abhin Singla MS BioE, MBA, MD > President AC Medcomp Inc Dr Singla, you might contact Kaiser Health Plan either in the area closest to you or at the central office in Oakland CA. We have been doing QA, QoS, concurrent UR, and TQM for some time now in the Hawaii Region, and I suspect it is nationwide in the system. Len Howard MD ",13 "None (mail relay) Hi people!: I'm looking for X Servers for DOS or Windows. I've already seen Desqview/X and XVision but I'd like to be aware of other choices. Is there anything on the public domain or shareware ? And in the commercial area is there anything with aggressive pricing ? What about incompatibilities ? Window managers ? Any info is welcome. Thanx in advance. C U! By(e) Mario Valente ",5 "Re: Giveaways In article <1993Apr14.173826.29856@philabs.philips.com> jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio) writes: > >That's probably because they couldn't find anyone to sponser it... Maybe USS >could sponser the Pittsburgh Penguins/US Steel Steel Rod Night-- close enough? Maybe in the 60's, but not now. Steel is a dead industry in Pgh. No, a giveaway night in the 90's for Pgh would be ""Baboon Liver Night"" sponored by The Pittsburgh Zoo... Lori ",10 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes: >We will see what will happen to the ""survivors"". Don't forget however >that the members of the cult are responsible for the deaths of 4 ATF >agents. Do you really expect Koresh (dead or alive) to take sole >responsibility for this? I can just see it now, survivior at trial >""I was just following orders"". Where have we heard that before??? No, Bill, my full original post included sufficient disclaimers so that you could see that I was not claiming that it was a perfect world from the Branch Davidians point of view. The point of my article was that it is inappropriate to compare Massada and the fate of the Jewish rebels to Waco. The Zealot men faced certain execution in a way that was anathema to their religion, and they knew that their wives and children would be enslaved. American prisons may not be garden spots, but they don't compare to what the survivors of Massada might have faced. You indicate that you agree that the Branch Davidians faced a trial. How does that fact alone make for a comparison here? Even if the government had wanted to find ""fall guys"" for the BATF deaths, they still had to prove it to a jury. Once again, my point was quite simple--any comparison between the situation of the Branch Davidians and the Jews of Massada is absurd. -- ________________________________________ Jack F. Love | Opinions expressed are mine alone. | (Unless you happen to agree.) ",18 "Re: some thoughts. I'm sold! Where do I sign up? Brian /-|-\ The next book: ""Charles Manson: Lord, Lunatic, or Liar"" ",0 "Re: Boston Gun Buy Back mpetro@brtph126.bnr.ca (Myron Petro P030) writes: >>Ron Miller wrote: >>When you ask the question of the ""authorities"" or sponsors of buyback >>programs whether they will check for stolen weapons and they answer >>""no, it's total amnesty"". > (good point about registration schemes being used only for harassment deleted) > I would also like to point out that this is receiving stolen property and is >no different than a pawn shop owner doing the same thing. > > > Myron Petro > NRA, USPSA > DVC y'all > ************************************************************************** > The opinions included in this post are my sole responsibility. > And are protected by the First Amendment and guarnteed by the > Second Amendment. An interesting idea consider: At any locality where a buy-back program is being instituted, get a list of guns they received and compare serial numbers with a list of stolen guns and sue the people responsible for the program if those guns were destroyed. Criminal charges can also be made.( Receiving stolen property, destruction of private property etc.) ",16 "Dear Montana@pinetree.org Re: Hockey Pool Hi there, I can't seem to get mail to you. Can you tell me your entire adress, or even your dotted decimal address? (ie. 131.202.3.10) Thanks, rocket@calvin.cs.unb.ca -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - Maurice Richard - ",10 "Re: Montreal Question....... In article <1993Apr19.015442.15723@oz.plymouth.edu> k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully) writes: > What position does Mike Lansing play? I cannot seem to find it > anywhere. Thanks!!!!1 > > K--> >-- >--- >Keith J. Mullins (o o) >P.S.C -----------oOO--(_)--OOo----------- INTERNET: >Plymouth, NH | ""It takes a big man to cry, but | k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu He's played 2nd and 3rd. I also heard he can play short too. Shawn ",9 "Re: Zane!!Rescue us from Simmons!! In my last message, I wrote: **************************************************** 12) Management: BIG BIG ZERO. Sauer has yet to make a forceful agreement in favor of revenue sharing. ****************************************************** I meant argument instead of agreement. Also, I think I should add a coouple of Ted's positive achievements - Smiley trade was good for the pirates. but I think Ted could have gotten someone better than Neagle. Cummings seems to be pretty good. - The Cole trade was excellent. BUt Simmons has botched it up now. -This year's draft seems to have gone well for the PIrates. BUt then they lost 2 high picks in the Bonds fiasco. OH well, I should give up trying to prove that Simmons is not a total idiot. ",9 "Re: Rule Book Trivia 2 In article <93108.171548IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, Ryan Robbins writes: |> This week's play: |> It took three days to get to us, but I'll try anyway as I naturally haven't seen the answer. |> With runners at first and second and one out, the batter hits an |> easy pop fly to the third baseman. |> |> (A) The umpires declare the infield fly rule and the third baseman |> lets the ball drop. The runner at second heads for third and the |> third baseman flips the ball to the short stop who tags the bag |> before the runner. SAFE. The correct call is ""Infield Fly, (batter out) if fair"". Runners may advance at own risk. (Gotta tag up if caught, etc.) It is not a force, and the pop was not caught, so regardless of whether the SS tags 3B or 2B (it wasn't clear, above), he hasn't got the runner out. |> (B) The umpires don't declare the infield fly rule and the third |> baseman allows the ball to drop and throws to the short stop, who |> tags the runner from second while the runner is between second and |> third. OUT. See rule 6.05(L) APPROVED RULING. (Below). In this case, the umpire has decided for whatever reason that the infield fly rule doesn't apply. (Sounds like a bad call here, but that's not the point). The batter is not out, so a force situation is created. Therefore, the runner is out. ( UNLESS, by rule 6.05(L) the ball is dead AND the batter is safe, then I guess the runners would advance unmolested. I can't really tell from 6.05(L) that the ball is dead in this situation.) |> |> What's the call in (A) and (B)? Pertinent rules: 2.00 Definition of Infield Fly: ""When an Infield fly is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05(L). The Infield Fly rule takes precedence."" 6.05(L) A batter is out when: an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and thrid, or first,second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and the runners or runners shall return to their original base or bases. APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball the drop untouched to the ground, except when the infield fly rule applies. -- Jim Dean (Internet: jimdean@bnr.ca) +-----+ National Capital Baseball League mild-mannered computer scientist -->|Phone|--> President. Pitcher. My knuckler? Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa,Ont. |Booth| Not too legit to hit! 6-0, 1.99 Phone: (613) 763-2135 Fax: 763-8112 +-----+ Phone: (613) 723-1580 ",9 "Re: Picking up cable tv with an aerial. Great, the first advantage of cheap coax, I've ever heard. Cheers Robert (HB9NBY) -- Robert Ganter /------------\ Universitaet Basel | I am a fan | Institut fuer Informatik | of my plan | Basel/Switzerland \------------/ ganter@ifi.unibas.ch amateurradio: HB9NBY packet: HB9NBY@HB9EAS.CHE.EU ",12 "thermogenics Hi, I'm an avid dieter and the new miracle drug seems to involve thermo- genics. The drug is claimed to stimulate the brown fat to burn food creating eat as opposed to the fat being stored. There are all sorts of warnings about fevers, elevated blood pressure and heart rate, ect.. The silver lining is that apparently some weight loss does not require a change in diet. Is this possible? Are the pills dangerous or just hoaxes? Karen ",13 "Cannot move data fast enough!? I want to achieve an overall throughput rate of around 5 megabytes / sec for very large data transfers. (Around 5 MB.) I have a Quadra 950. I have a NuBus network card that can pump data in to mac memory at 8.5 MB/s. (using block-mode transfers) I have a high-speed disk array (no asynchronous PB calls) that can achieve 6.8 MB/s. Let's say all transfers go from disk to buffer to network card. It is not enough to first transfer all the data from the disk to buffer, then transfer all the data from the buffer to card. (6.8 MB/s then 8.5 MB/s result in an overall 3.8 MB/s. Too slow!) So I tried the following scheme: For an n-megabyte transfer, Step 1: Load the 1st MB from disk to buffer. Step 2: Asynch send 1st MB out card, Load the 2nd MB from disk to buffer. Step 3: Asynch send 2nd MB out card, Load the 3rd MB from disk to buffer. ... Step n: Asynch send the n-1 MB out card, Load the nth MB from disk to buffer. Step n+1: Send the nth MB out card. Even though the code apparently does execute the card transfer asynchronously, and the card does not use the Mac cpu at all, (It is using the buffer, tho') each of the steps 2 through n take as long as if the two transfers were executed one after another. So there is no improvement in the rate. Why? Is the mac RAM dual-port? (So the NuBus card and the disk driver can both access data at the same time.) Is the problem that the two devices, card and disk driver, both have to use the same bus to mac RAM? Is there anything I can do? --David +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | David Blume | ""I get tired thinking of all the things I | | dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | don't want to do."" --Bukowski, _Barfly_ | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",4 "Apple Tape backup 40SC under System 7.x I need to get an Apple 40SC tape backup unit working under Sys 7.0.x, but do not have any drivers/software to access the device. Does anyone know where I can fidn the tools to access this device? Appreciate any info/comments. --curtis -- Curtis C. Generous generous@sti.nasa.gov (703) 685-1140 NASA STI, Code JTT, Washington, DC 20546 ",4 "Nebulisers and particle Size Hi, we are just completing a project on nebuliser performance, and have a wealth of data on particle size and output which we are going to use to adjudicate a contract next week. Although the output data is easy for us to present, there seems to be little concensus on the optimum diameter of the nebulised droplets for straightforward inhalation therapy (eg: for asthmatics). Some say that the droplets must be smaller than 5 microns, whilst others say that if they are too small they will not be effective. Anyone up on this topic who could summarise the current status ? Cheers, Pete -- Pete Phillips, Deputy Director, Surgical Materials Testing Lab, Bridgend General Hospital, S. Wales. 0656-652166 pete@smtl.demon.co.uk -- ""The Four Horse Oppressors of the Apocalypse were Nutritional Deprivation, State of Belligerency, Widespread Transmittable Condition and Terminal Inconvenience"" - Official Politically Correct Dictionary ",13 "EMAIL does anyone have Prez. Clinton`s e-mail address. thanks a lot ",18 "Don't knock the Glock (was Re: My Gun is like my Am Ex Card) In article <93104.231049U28037@uicvm.uic.edu>, Jason Kratz writes: >In article <1qie2rINN1b9@cae.cad.gatech.edu>, vincent@cad.gatech.edu (Vincent >Fox) says: >> >All your points are very well taken and things that I haven't considered as >I am not really familiar enough with handguns. > >>Some police departments switched to Glocks, and then started quietly >>switching many officers back to the old revolvers. Too many were having >>accidents, partly due to the poor training they received. Not that Glocks >>require rocket scientists, but some cops are baffled by something as complex >>as the timer on a VCR. > >Hell, a Glock is the last thing that should be switched to. The only thing >that I know about a Glock is the lack of a real safety on it. Sure there is >that little thing in the trigger but that isn't too great of a safety. Ahem!!! Hrumph!!!! You have encurred the wrath of Glock owners. We will beat you with our hammers. Oooops, don't have any :-) Seriously. There is no difference in the safeties betweena Glock and any DA revolver. Intellectually, think of the Glock as a very high cap revolver. Ignoring stove pipes, misfeeds and all the other bonus exercises that autoloaders give you, that is. Every gun has its safe moment and its dangerous moment. If you just learn how to handle it, it becomes a lot less dangerous (to you). -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |Texans: Vote NO on Robin Hood. We need pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com |solutions, not gestures. PADI DM-54909 | ",16 "Re: HR 1276 (""A gun law I can live with!"" :-) In article <1993Apr21.200151.4937@dg-rtp.dg.com>, meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) writes: > > A BILL > > To establish the right to obtain firearms for security, and > > to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and > > to provide for the enforcement of such right. > In article <1qkshq$l39@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) > writes: > [ ... ] > >Maybe I'm too ""religious,"" but when I see a bill to ""establish a right,"" > >I wince. Keep in mind, what the law giveth, the law can taketh away. > Hey, guys. You're absolutely correct, and well on the way to winning > this battle ... and losing the war. Yes, there are serious philosophical > flaws in HR 1276. Technical ones, too -- how'd you like to sue the Feds, > lose, and have to pay _their_ ""reasonable Attorney's fee"" ... ? :-) > Still, I have one basic question: compared to what we've _got_ is HR 1276 > (a) better, or (b) worse? This one shouldn't even take you three guesses. Compared to the Second Amendment? I think it's worse. The problem is, the devil is in the details. You know, the Brady Bill sounds like a ""good idea"" too, until you discover that there is NO check, and that the police DON'T have to allow your purchase even if you check out, and that you have NO recourse if they don't. Are there any loopholes here? I'm no lawyer, I can't be sure. I would have never noticed the second one mentioned above in the Brady Bill, for example. The more words involved, the more details. What was that saying about Abraham Lincoln requiring 200 words to free the slaves, and the modern Congress requiring 3,000,000 words to describe price controls on rice? > If there's a good enough show of support for HR 1276, maybe for a change > _we_ could be the ones saying ""it's a reasonable first step"" ... That only works with bad laws. Good laws are like good computer programs. Quality has to be written in from the start, not added on later. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "comp.windows.x Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) 4/5 Archive-name: x-faq/part4 Last-modified: 1993/04/04 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 80)! Where can I get an X-based plotting program? These usually are available from uucp sites such as uunet or other sites as marked; please consult the archie server to find more recent versions. gnuplot X (xplot), PostScript and a bunch of other drivers. export.lcs.mit.edu [and elsewhere]:contrib/gnuplot3.1.tar.Z gl_plot X output only [?] comp.sources.unix/volume18 graph+ yallara.cs.rmit.oz.au:/pub/graph+.tar.Z [131.170.24.42] comp.sources.unix/volume8 pdraw,drawplot 2D and 3D X,PS scam.berkeley.edu:/src/local/3dplot.tar.Z [128.32.138.1] scam.berkeley.edu:/src/local/contour.tar.Z [128.32.138.1] scam.berkeley.edu:/src/local/drawplot.tar.Z [128.32.138.1] uunet:~ftp/contrib/drawplot.tar.Z xgraph plot, zoom. Outputs PS or HPGL. shambhala.berkeley.edu:/pub/xgraph-11.tar.Z [128.32.132.54] sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de:X11/contrib/xgraph-11.tar.Z [132.230.1.1] nisc.jvnc.net:pub/xgraph-11.tar.Z [128.121.50.7] comp.sources.x/volume3 or many other sites ACE/gr (formerly xvgr and xmgr) XY plotting tools ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34] XView version: /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xvgr-2.09.tar.Z Motif version: /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xmgr-2.09.tar.Z [mirrored on export in /contrib/acegr] XGobi An interactive dynamic scatter-plotting tool from Bellcore lib.stat.cmu.edu: general/xgobi* [log in as statlib with your email as the password; or send email to statlib@lib.stat.cmu.edu containing the one-line message ""send xgobi from general""] Information from: Debby Swayne, dfs@bellcore.com. Robot a scientific XView-based graph plotting and data analysis tool ftp.astro.psu.edu:pub/astrod/robotx0.46.tar.Z [128.118.147.28] plotmtv a multi-purpose 2D/3D plotter tanqueray.berkeley.edu:/pub/Plotmtv1.3.1.tar.Z [2/91. Thanks in part to: emv@ox.com (Ed Vielmetti); geoff@Veritas.COM (Geoffrey Leach); Paul A. Scowen (uk1@spacsun.rice.edu); black@beno.CSS.GOV (Mike Black)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 81) Where can I get an X-based spreadsheet? A version of ""sc"" for X and which supports Lotus files is available from vernam.cs.uwm.edu in xspread2.0.tar.Z. It also includes graphing functions. Information: soft-eng@cs.uwm.edu. The GNU package OLEO is available in prep.ai.mit.edu:pub/gnu/oleo-1.2.2.tar.Z; it can generate PostScript renditions of spreadsheets. Also: Several of the below are part of integrated office-productivity tools which may also include word-processing, email, conferencing, image processing, and drawing/painting, among other features. Vendor Product Contact Information ------ ------- ------------------- Access Technology 20/20 508-655-9191 Informix WingZ 800-331-1763 Quality Software Products Q-Calc/eXclaim 800-628-3999 (CA:213-410-0303) Unipress Q-Calc 201-985-8000 Uniplex Uniplex 214-717-0068, 800-356-8063 Digital DECdecision 1-800-DIGITAL Applix Aster*x 508-870-0300, 1-800-8APPLIX. AIS XESS 919-942-7801, info@ais.com BBN Software Products BBN/Slate 617-873-5000 slate-offer@bbn.com Elsid Software Systems Ripcam 613-228-9468 SAS by the SAS Institute now has a spreadsheet module; the X version is available on the current popular RISC platforms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 82) Where can I get X-based project-management software? Vendor Product Contact Information ------ ------- ------------------- Productivity Solutions Ultra Planner 617-237-1600 Quality Software Products MasterPlan Version, 310-410-0303 sales@qsp.com Digital Tools, Inc. AutoPLAN 408-366-6920, 800-755-0065 NASA COMPASS 404-542-3265, service@cossack.cosmic.uga.edu GEC-Marconi Software Systems GECOMO Plus 703-648-1551 GEC-Marconi Software Systems SIZE Plus 703-648-1551 TEI, Inc VUE 408-985-7100 Mantix Cascade 703-506-8833 Advanced Management Solutions Schedule Publisher 800-397-6829 Auburn University ?? ?? [thanks to Pete Phillips (pete@egh-qc.co.uk); 7/92] [thanks to Atul Chhabra (atul@nynexst.com); 10/92] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 83) Where can I get an X-based PostScript previewer? Ghostscript is distributed by the Free Software Foundation (617-876-3296) and includes a PostScript interpreter and a library of graphics primitives. Version 2.5.2 is now available; the major site is prep.ai.mit.edu. [11/92] GSPreview (by the Computing Laboratory of the University of Kent at Canterbury) is an X user interface (WCL-based) to the Ghostscript 2.4[.1] interpreter [5/92]. The source is available for anonymous ftp from export.lcs.mit.edu as gspreview.2.0.tar.Z. Ghostview (by Tim Theisen, tim@cs.wisc.edu) is full-function user interface for GhostScript. Check ftp.cs.wisc.edu or prep.ai.mit.edu for /pub/ghostview-1.4.1.tar.Z [1/93]. There are also several executables available on ftp.cs.wisc.edu:/pub/X/ghostview-exe for various architectures. Also: ScriptWorks is Harlequin's software package for previewing and printing PostScript(R) descriptions of text and graphics images; previewers for X are available. For information call +44-223-872522 or send email to scriptworks-request@harlqn.co.uk. Image Network's Xps supports the full PostScript language and renders in color, grayscale, or monochrome. Fonts displayed are anti-aliased. Info: Image Network, +1 415 967 0542. Digital's dxpsview runs on UWS 2.1 and 2.2. Sun's pageview runs with the X11/NeWS server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 84) Where can I get an X-based GKS package? The latest freely-available XGKS can be obtained from xgks-request@unidata.ucar.edu; this is a 2c implementation derived from the X11R4 contrib XGKS from IBM and the University of Illinois. The release is on unidata.ucar.edu [128.117.140.3] as pub/xgks.tar.Z. [12/90] In addition, Grafpak-GKS is available from Advanced Technology Center (714-583-9119). GKSUL is available from gks@ulowell.edu (ULowell CS department). It is a 2b implementation which includes drivers for a variety of devices. It can be passed an X window ID to use. The package includes both C and Fortran bindings. [11/90; from dsrand@mitre.org and from stew@hanauma.stanford.edu] An XgksWidget is produced by Neil Bowers (neilb@leeds.dcs; neilb@dcs.leeds.ac.uk); the latest [10/91] conforms with the new version of XGKS (2.4). It is available on export in contrib/xgks-widget.tar.Z. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 85) Where can I get an X-based PEX package? The first official release of PEX is with X11R5; fix-22 brings the Sample Implementation server to version 5.1. The final PEX 5.1 Protocol specification is now available via anonymous ftp to export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12), in the directory /pub/DOCS/PEX/. Changes made from the Public Review draft are listed in the file ""5.1P_changes"" in that directory. [9/92] The final PEXlib 5.1 document is on export in pub/DOCS/PEXlib. [11/92] There is now available from the University of Illinois an implementation of the PEX 4.0 specification called UIPEX. It contains a ""near- complete"" implementation of PHiGS and PHiGS PLUS. The file pub/uipex/uipex.tar.Z is on a.cs.uiuc.edu (128.174.252.1); the porting platform was an RT running 4.3. Questions and comments can to go uipex@cs.uiuc.edu. In addition, the PEXt toolkit by Rich Thomson (rthomson@dsd.es.com) is available on export as PEXt.tar.Z; it includes a PEX widget making it easier to include PEX in Xt-based programs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 86) Where can I get an X-based TeX or DVI previewer? The xtex previewer for TeX files is available from a number of archive sites, including uunet; the current version is usually on ftp.cs.colorado.edu (128.138.204.31) in SeeTeX-2.18.5.tar.Z; pre-converted fonts are also on that machine. The distribution all includes ""mftobdf"" which converts PK, GF, and PXL fonts to BDF format, where they can then be compiled for use by your local X server. The xdvi dvi-previewer is fairly comprehensive and easy to use. It is also available from a number of sites, including uunet and export.lcs.mit.edu; current version is patchlevel 16 [12/92]. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 87) Where can I get an X-based troff previewer? X11R4 has two previewers for device-independent troff: the supported client xditview, and the contributed-but-well-maintained xtroff. An earlier version of xtroff also appeared on the R3 contributed source. xditview is also in the R5 distribution. In addition, the xman client can be used to preview troff documents which use the -man macros (i.e. man pages). If psroff is used its output can be viewed with a PostScript previewer. In addition: xproof, an X previewer for ditroff has been contributed by Marvin Solomon (solomon@cs.wisc.edu); version 3.5 is available on export in contrib/xproof*. [8/90] Elan Computer Group (CA: 415-964-2200) produces eroff, a modified troff implementation, and Elan/Express, an X11 eroff previewer. SoftQuad (416-963-8337; USA only 800-387-2777, mail@sq.uu.net or mail@sq.com) offers SoftQuad Publishing Software, including a substantially- rewritten troff formatter, a better intermediate language with backwards compatibility, and an X11[R3,R4] previewer. (This is the package adopted by AT&T's own MIS department, and used in and re-sold by many parts of AT&T). [information from Ian Darwin, SoftQuad (ian@sq.com) 3/90] Image Network (1-800-TOXROFF; CA: 415-967-0542) offers the Xroff package, which includes a fine modified troff implementation and a set of X11-based page previewers. (This is the package OEM'ed by several hardware vendors.) [mostly courtesy moraes@cs.toronto.edu (Mark Moraes)] [2/90] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 88)! Where can I get a WYSIWYG interface builder? A new release of the DIRT interface builder by Richard Hesketh works with X11R5 and includes some support for the Motif widget set. From the README: This builder allows the interactive creation and rapid prototyping of X user interfaces using the X Toolkit and a number of Widget Sets. Dirt generates ""Wc - Widget Creation"" resource files and this distribution also includes the Widget Creation Library (version 1.06, with the exception of the demos and Mri/Ari source code) with the kind permission of its author David E. Smyth. Check dirt.README, dirt.A2.0.tar.Z, and dirt.PS.Z on export.lcs.mit.edu. The InterViews 3.0.1 C++ toolkit contains a WYSIWIG interface builder called ibuild. ibuild generates code for an InterViews application complete with Imakefile and an X-resource file. Documentation is /pub/papers/ibuild.ps on interviews.stanford.edu (36.22.0.175). Quest Windows's (408-496-1900) ObjectViews C++ package includes an interactive building tool. Druid (Demonstrational Rapid User Interface Development) runs on SPARC machines using OSF/Motif 1.0; it is intended eventually to be a full UIMS but apparently now has only support for creating the presentation components, for which it generates C/UIL code. Info: Singh G, Kok CH, Ngan TY, ""Druid: A System for Demonstrational Rapid User Interface Development"". Proc. ACM SIGGRAPH Symp on User Interface Software and Technology (UIST'90). ACM, NY, 1990, pp:167-177. The BYO interface builder is implemented in tcl. Also: In addition, these commercial products (unsorted) are available in final or prerelease form [the * following the product name indicates that the product is known to allow the designer to specify for each widget whether a particular resource is hard-coded or written to an application defaults file, for at least one form of output]. Some are much more than user-interface tools; some are full user interface management systems; information on most is not up-to-date: Product Name Look/Feel Code Output Vendor HP Interface Motif 1.1 C(Xm) HP/Visual Edge Architect/ UIMX OPEN LOOK Express OPEN LOOK C(Xol+ helper lib) AT&T / Visual Edge UIMX 2.0 * Motif 1.1 C(Xm + helper code) Visual Edge 514-332-6430 & distributors VUIT 2.0 Motif 1.1 C/UIL[r/w] DEC (1-800-DIGITAL) X-Designer 1.1 * Motif 1.1 C(Xm); C/UIL Imperial Software Technology, Ltd (+44 734 587055) sales@ist.co.uk XFaceMaker2 (XFM2) * Motif 1.0 C;C/script (C-like procedural language);C/UIL NSL (33 1 43 36 77 50) requests@nsl.fr Builder Xcessory 2.0 * Motif 1.1 C(Xm); C/UIL[r/w] ICS Ada (617-621-0060) info@ics.com XBUILD 1.1 * Motif 1.0 C(Xm); C/UIL Nixdorf (617-864-0066) xbuild@nixdorf.com iXBUILD Motif 1.1 C(Xm); C/UIL iXOS Software karl@ixos.uucp 089/461005-69 TeleUSE 2.1 * Motif 1.1.5 C(Xm); C/UIL[r/w] Telesoft (619-457-2700) gui_info@telesoft.com ezX 3.2 Motif 1.1 C(Xm +helper lib);C/UIL;Ada Sunrise (401-847-7868) info@sunrise.com Snapix Motif C/Xm ADNT +33 1 3956 5333 OpenWindows Developers OPEN LOOK GIL [-> C/XView] Sun Guide 3.0 GIL [-> C++/XView] GIL [-> C/OLIT] GIL [-> C/PostScript for TNT] ExoCode/SXM Motif C(Xm) Expert Object ExoCode/Plus OPEN LOOK XView 708-676-5555 TAE+ Xw;Motif C(Xw,Xm); C/TCL (TAE Control Language, like UIL[needs helper library]); VAX Fortran; Ada; C++ Nasa Goddard (301) 286-6034 MOB, XSculptor Motif; OpenLook C/Xm,UIL; C/Xol Kovi 408-982-3840 PSM PM, MSW 3.0, C/UIL Lancorp Motif 1.1.2,Mac Pty Ltd. +61 3 629 4833 Fax: 629 1296 (Australia) MOTIFATION Motif 1.0|1.1.2 C(Xm) AKA EDV +49 (0) 234/33397-0 +49 (0) 234/33397-40 fax UIB Open Look/Motif C++(OI) ParcPlace +1 303-678-4626 Look for magazine reviews for more complete comparisons of meta-file formats, documentation, real ease-of-use, etc; Unix World and Unix Review often carry articles. In addition, Neuron Data (1 415 321-4488) makes Open Interface, a window-system-independent object toolkit which supports interfaces which are or resemble (supersets of) Mac, Windows, and Motif and Open Look; the package includes an interface builder. In addition, the GRAMMI builder supports the development of Ada/X applications using its own set of objects which are planned to have a Motif look. GRAMMI is written in Ada and generates Ada specs and stub bodies. (1-800-GRAMMI-1). In addition, these non-WYSIWYG but related products may help for goals of rapid prototyping of the application interface: WCL: the Widget Creation Library. Basically describes the widget hierarchy and actions in a resources file; available from fine archive servers everywhere, including devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (128.149.1.143) in pub/. Wcl provides a very thin layer over Xt without any internal tweaking. Version 2.5 is current [3/93]. WINTERP: an Xlisp-based Motif toolkit allows for interpretive programming. The copy on the R4 tape is outdated; get a copy off export or email to winterp-source%hplnpm@hplabs.hp.com. The Serpent UIMS permits the building of user-interfaces without specific knowledge of coding but with an understanding of attributes being set on a particular [Motif] widget. Beta Release 1.2 is available from ftp.sei.cmu.edu (128.237.1.13) and can be found in /pub/serpent. Serpent is also available on export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.11) in /contrib/serpent. Email questions can go to serpent@sei.cmu.edu. A commercial version of Serpent is available as ""Agora"" from ASET, 221 Woodhaven Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15228. Garnet is a Common Lisp-based GUI toolkit. Information is available from garnet@cs.cmu.edu. MetaCard is a hypertext/Rapid Application Development environment similar to Apple/Claris Corporation's HyperCard (info@metacard.com). MetaCard is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.metacard.com, csn.org, or 128.138.213.21. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 89) Where can I find X tools callable from shell scripts? I want to have a shell script pop up menus and yes/no dialog boxes if the user is running X. Several tools in the R3 contrib/ area were developed to satisfy these needs: yorn pops up a yes/no box, xmessage displays a string, etc. There are several versions of these tools; few, if any, have made it to the R4 contrib/ area, though they may still be available on various archive sites. In addition, Richard Hesketh (rlh2@ukc.ac.uk) has posted the xmenu package to comp.sources.x (""v08i008: xmenu"") for 1-of-n choices. [7/90] Two versions of XPrompt have been posted to comp.sources.x, the latter being an unauthorized rewrite. [R. Forsman (thoth@reef.cis.ufl.edu), 1/91] There is a version of XMenu available from comp.sources.x; it is being worked on and will likely be re-released. xp-1.1.tar.Z, xpick-1.0.tar.Z and xzap-1.0.tar.Z on export's contrib/ are tools by Gerry.Tomlinson@newcastle.ac.UK which act as X versions of the simple display and choice-making tools in K&P. [4/92] xtpanel lets the user build a panel containing interactive objects such as buttons, sliders, text fields, etc., either from the command line or using a simple scripting language. It is available for anonymous ftp from hanauma.Stanford.EDU (36.51.0.16) as pub/X/xtpanel.tar.Z and may also be found in the alt.sources archives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 90) Where can I get an X-based debugger? xdbx, an X interface to the dbx debugger, is available via ftp from export. The current [1/91] version is 2.1 patchlevel 2. An X interface to gdb called xxgdb is more like xdbx 2.1.2. It is part of comp.sources.x volume 11 [2/91]; xxgdb-1.06.tar.Z is on export. mxgdb is a Motif interface to gdb by Jim Tsillas (jtsillas@bubba.ma30.bull.com); version 1.1.5 was released 1/93. UPS is a source-level debugger which runs under the X11 and SunView window systems on Sun and DEC platforms. It is available from export (18.24.0.11) as contrib/ups-2.45.tar.Z (also ups-2.45-to-2.45.2.patch.Z) and unix.hensa.ac.uk (129.12.21.7) in /pub/misc/unix/ups (or try mail to archive@unix.hensa.ac.uk). [10/92] Unofficial fixes by Rod Armstrong (rod@sj.ate.slb.com) are on unix.hensa.ac.uk in /misc/unix/ups/contrib/rod@sj.ate.slb.com. Also: MIPS produces a highly-customizable (WCL-based) Visual Debugger. You should be able to use Sun's dbxtool with its X11/NeWS server. The CodeCenter (617-498-3000) source-level debugger, available on most major platforms, includes an X-based interface. AT&T offers the eXamine Graphical Interface, an X11 interface to dbx and C++ dbx for Sun3 and Sun4 and sdb and sdb++ for 386 and 3B2 platforms. Call 1-508-960-1997 or contact examine@mvuxi.att.com for more information. Solbourne (+1 303-678-4626) offers PDB, its X-based debugger for C, C++ and Fortran. PDB uses the OI toolkit and runs in either Open Look or Motif mode. SCO (info@sco.com) offers dbXtra as part of several development systems. Lucid's Energize Programming System, a tightly integrated development environment for C and C++ programs, incorporates a graphical user interface on top of an extended version of gdb. Info: lucid-info@lucid.com, or (800) 223-9322. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 91)! How can I ""tee"" an X program identically to several displays? There are several protocol multiplexer tools which provide for the simultaneous display of X clients on any number of machines. XMX (an X Protocol Multiplexor) is available from wilma.cs.brown.edu (128.148.33.66) as pub/xmx.tar.Z It works independently of the server and does not affect the application being shared; it was developed for use in the electronic classroom. XTV is a conference program which can be used to duplicate the ""chalkboard"" on several displays. Release 1 is available on the X11R5 contrib tapes; a more recent version is on ftp.cs.odu.edu as pub/wahab/XTV.r2.tar.Z. SHX from Michael Altenhofen of Digital Equipment GmbH CEC Karlsruhe also does this; it is a ""WYSIWIS"" (What You See Is What I See) package in the context of a computer-based learning/training tool to provide online help from remote tutors but is also useful for general window sharing. Information: shX@nestvx.enet.dec.com. SHX can be found on export and gatekeeper.dec.com:/pub/X11/contrib/shX.tar.Z, crl.dec.com:/pub/X11/contrib/shX.tar.Z Modifications to SHX for color mapping and private color allocation by Mark J. Handley (M.Handley@cs.ucl.ac.uk) are on cs.ucl.ac.uk in car/shX.car.tar.Z. XTrap is implemented as a server/library extension and can be used to record and then replay an x session. It is available as: gatekeeper.dec.com pub/X11/contrib/XTrap_v31.tar.Z export.lcs.mit.edu contrib/XTrap_v31.tar.Z wscrawl can be used as a ""multi-person paint program"". It's available on sax.stanford.edu as wscrawl.shar.Z. Shdr implements a simple shared whiteboard, without a chalk-passing mechanism. It's available on parcftp.xerox.com as pub/europarc/shdr.tar.Z. SketchPad 1.0 (3/93) is a distributed interactive graphical editor particularly designed for sketching. Sources have been posted to alt.sources and are available from ftp.igd.fhg.de (192.44.32.1) in ~ftp/incoming/sketchpad. The NESTOR project is described in ""Upgrading A Window System For Tutoring Functions"", Michael Altenhofen et al., the proceedings of the EXUG Conference 11/90. Also of use: Hewlett-Packard Co. has a commercial product, ""HP SharedX"" which works under HP-UX currently on their 300, 400, and 700 series workstations and their HP 700/RX X Stations. Machines receiving shared windows can be any X server. HP SharedX consists of a server extensions and a Motif based user interface process. Contact your local HP sales rep. for more information. IBM offers a commercial product. Sun offers multi-user confering software called ShowMe. InSoft (Mechanicsburg, PA, USA) offers multi-user confering software called Communique. [Thanks in part to scott@spectra.com (Tim Scott), 5/91, and to Peter Cigehn (peter@lulea.trab.se), 8/92 ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 92) TOPIC: BUILDING THE X DISTRIBUTION [topic needs updating to R5] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 93) What's a good source of information on configuring the X build? This FAQ includes information on a number of ""gotchas"" that can bite you on particular system. However, the best source of general information on building the X11 release is found in the Release Notes. The file is bundled separately from the rest of the release, so if it's become separated from your sources you can FTP another copy separately: the file RELNOTES.[ms,PS,TXT] at the top of the distribution. The file RELNOTES is also available from the xstuff mail server. In addition, O'Reilly & Associates's Volume 8 on X Administration includes information on configuring and building X. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 94) Why doesn't my Sun with a cg6 work with R5? Apparently gcc is the problem; it seems to produce fine code for all Sun displays except for the cgsix. The new sunGX.o distributed with fix-07 may fix the problem (note: not known to work on Solaris). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 95) Why doesn't my Sun with SunOS 4.1 know about _dlsym, etc.? If you get errors with _dlsym _dlopen _dlclose undefined, link with libdl.a. Add ""-ldl"" to your and eventually your site.def. You may want to surround it with ""-Bstatic -ldl -Bdynamic"" if you add it to the EXTRA_LIBRARIES variable, since ""syslibs"" get added after EXTRA_LIBRARIES on the eventual compilation command; otherwise you may not have a shared libdl. (Or compile the stubs shared.) [thanks to Joe Backo (joe.backo@East.Sun.COM), 12/91] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 96) What is this strange problem building X clients on SunOS 4.1.2? In SunOS 4.1.2 Sun fixed a shared-library bug in ld which conflicts with the way X11R4 builds the shared Xmu library, causing these symbols to be undefined when building some X11 clients: _get_wmShellWidgetClass _get_applicationShellWidgetClass Compiling ""-Bstatic -lXmu -Bdynamic"" appears to work. To solve the problem if you are using OpenWindows 3.0 (X11R4-based Xt), please contact your local Sun office and request the following patches: Patch i.d. Description 100512-02 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 libXt Jumbo patch 100573-03 4.1.x OpenWindows 3.0 undefined symbols when using shared libXmu [Greg Earle, earle@Sun.COM; 7/92] A source patch for use with the MIT X11R4 libraries was developed by Conrad Kimball (cek@sdc.boeing.com); it retrofits into R4 some fixes made in R5 to get around this problem. The patch is on export in [1/93] contrib/X11R4_sunos4.1.2_patch_version3.Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 97) Why can't gcc compile X11R4 on my SPARC? I used gcc to compile the whole distribution, but I get several segmentation faults when running X. Note first that gcc on RISC machines does not necessarily result in any performance increase; it certainly is not as noticeable as it is on the 680x0 or VAX platforms. Here is the problem: gcc and cc use incompatible methods of passing structures as arguments and returning them as function values, so when gcc-compiled parts of X are linked with Sun-supplied functions that pass or return structs, run-time errors occur. Affected programs include rgb and the server. This is from the GCC manual: On the Sparc, GNU CC uses an incompatible calling convention for structures. It passes them by including their contents in the argument list, whereas the standard compiler passes them effectively by reference. This really ought to be fixed, but such calling conventions are not yet supported in GNU CC, so it isn't straightforward to fix it. The convention for structure returning is also incompatible, and `-fpcc-struct-return' does not help. You can duck the problem either by using cc throughout or by using it for just the routines which cause incompatibilities; the problem cannot be solved with compilation flags. Files which need to be compiled using cc include: server/os/4.2bsd/oscolor.c rgb/rgb.c In addition, several of the ""inet_"" functions use structs as args or return values: clients/xhost/xhost.c clients/xauth/gethost.c. Calls to inet_addr in /lib/CLX/socket.c and lib/X/XConnDis.c are possibly harmless as they don't involve structs. [collected by bashford@scripps.edu (Don Bashford); 8/90] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 98) What are these I/O errors running X built with gcc? When I try to run xinit or the Xsun server I get the error ""Getting interface configuration: Operation not supported on socket. Fatal server bug! no screens found."" Running the gcc fixincludes script apparently didn't work. You can do this simple test: #include SIOCGIFCONF Run that through cc -E and gcc -E. The last line of output is the piece of interest; it should be identical (modulo irrelevant differences like whitespace). If the gcc version has 'x' where the cc version has 'i', your fixincludes run didn't work for some reason or other; go back to your gcc sources and run `fixincludes`; then rebuild the X distribution. If they are identical, try running a make clean in mit/server and rebuilding, just to make sure everything gets compiled with the proper include files. [courtesy der Mouse, mouse@LARRY.MCRCIM.MCGILL.EDU; 9/90] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 99) What are these problems compiling X11R4 on the older Sun3? In mit/server/ddx/sun/sunCG3C.c, we have found ""missing"" defines for CG3AC_MONOLEN, CG3BC_MONOLEN, CG3AC_ENBLEN, CG3BC_ENBLEN. What should these be? The R4 Errata list distributed after X11R4 mentions that you can add these lines to the file on older SunOS versions (e.g. 3.5) to compile: #define CG3AC_MONOLEN (128*1024) #define CG3AC_ENBLEN CG3AC_MONOLEN #define CG3BC_MONOLEN CG3AC_MONOLEN #define CG3BC_ENBLEN CG3AC_MONOLEN However, the Sun3 should not actually ever have the CG3 device, and so references to it can be removed from mit/server/ddx/sun/sunInit.c and the Imakefile. [11/90] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 100) What are these problems compiling the X server on SunOS 4.1.1? The file isn't being found. Sun omitted from SunOS 4.1.1. Remove the #include from sunCG6C.c and replace it with the line #define CG6_VADDR_COLOR 0x70016000 The file has changed from earlier versions of SunOS and should not be copied from another distribution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 101) What are these problems using R4 shared libraries on SunOS 4? All of the executables that I try to run have the following results: ld.so: libXmu.so.4: not found or even: ld.so: call to undefined procedure __GetHostname from 0xf776a96c If you are building with shared libraries on a Sun, remember that you need to run ""ldconfig"" as root after installing the shared libraries (if you've installed X on a file-server, run it on the server's clients, too). While building and installing the distribution, you need to be careful to avoid linking against any existing X shared libraries you might have (e.g. those distributed with OpenWindows). You should make sure you do not have LD_LIBRARY_PATH set in your environment during the build or the installation. If you are going to keep xterm and xload as setuid programs, please note that the shared libraries must be installed in /usr/lib, /usr/local/lib, or /usr/5lib for these programs to work (or else those programs must be linked statically). [courtesy MIT X Consortium] Note also that the program mkfontdir is run as part of the build; it attempts, however, to use the shared libraries before they have been installed. You can avoid the errors by building mkfontdir statically (pass -Bstatic to most C compilers). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 102) Can OLIT programs run with R5 Xt? (_XtQString undefined) This is a bug in the OLIT. _XtQString was an external symbol that existed in X11R4 (upon which OW 3.0's libXt is based). It wasn't documented and was removed in X11R5 (MIT's guarantee of upward compatibility between the R4 and R5 libraries only applied to the documented interface). A workaround is to temporarily set your LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the X11R4 or OpenWindows Xt library that you linked the program against. [10/92; from Barry Margolin (barmar@think.com); 3/93 from Jeff Francis (jpf@heliocentric.com)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 103) How do I get around the SunOS 4.1 security hole? There is a security problem with certain R4 clients (xterm and xload) running under SunOS 4.1 that have been installed setuid root and are using shared libraries; to avoid the problem, do one of these: 1) make the program non-setuid. You should consult your system administrator concerning protection of resources (e.g. ptys and /dev/kmem) used by these programs, to make sure that you do not create additional security problems at your site. 2) relink the programs statically (using -Bstatic). 3) install the libraries before linking and link with absolute paths to the libraries. [from rws@expo.lcs.mit.edu (Bob Scheifler), 12/90] The R5 version of xterm does this automatically by rebuilding xterm against the newly-installed libraries when xterm is being installed; this prevents an suid program from being built with libraries specified relatively. Note that this may cause an inconvenience when doing the installation from NFS-mounted disks. Xload has been rewritten to avoid the problem. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 104) How do I get around the frame-buffer security hole? On many systems the frame-buffer is unsecured by default; this permits anyone who can log into your workstation to peek at your windowing session by accessing the frame-buffer directly, or, as less of a privacy issue but perhaps more annoying, to [accidentally] start up a second X session on your console display. Check the man page for fbtab(5). [Thanks to Art Mulder (art@cs.ualberta.ca); 2/93.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 105) TOPIC: BUILDING X PROGRAMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 106) What is Imake? Imake is not a replacement for the make program; instead, it is a makefile-generator that takes advantages of the include-file and macro- processing capabilities of the C preprocessor cpp to generate makefiles suitable for building software on a particular system. Although it is not specific to X, the X release uses it to help solve a number of the configuration issues that arise in making such a large system widely portable. Imake has a fairly steep learning curve, in part because the process by which the system-specific configuration files, system-independent configuration files, and individual Imakefiles are melded to produce a Makefile is not obvious. There have been several different versions of imake; the R3, R4, and R5 versions are different. You can obtain information on imake from these sources: - the R4 and R5 release notes and imake man page include information on using Imake to build X - the R4 and R5 file mit/config/README also contains useful information - on the R4 tapes, contrib/doc/imake/imake.tex is Mark Moraes' R3/R4 guide to imake. - the R5 mit/doc/config/usenixws/paper.ms contains a paper by Jim Fulton on an early version of Imake - Paul Dubois (dubois@primate.wisc.edu) has written a useful explanation of how Imake works and how to use it in configuring X for non- supported systems; the document is available from ftp.primate.wisc.edu in the directory ~ftp/pub/imake-stuff; look for config-X11R4.ms (troff) and config-X11R4.ps (PostScript). Some supplemental appendices are nearby. [7/91: document version is now 1.06] These imake papers are available by email; mail a message body of ""send imake-stuff help"" to almanac@primate.wisc.edu. - see ""System Administration - Imake: Friend of Foe?"" by Dinah McNutt in the November 1991 issue of SunExpert. - German readers should expect in June 1992 an article ""Das Meta-Make / I make, you make / Schwerelos"" by Rainer Klute in ""iX Multiuser-Multitasking-Magazin"", directed at application programmers needing to write Imakefiles. An English-language derivative of this article is in The X Journal, issue 2:1. - The O'Reilly X Resource issue #2 contains Paul Davey's article on demystifying Imake. - Alain Brossard's working document full of tips on Imake is in sasun1.epfl.ch:pub/imakefile.1.Z. [1/91;12/91;5/92;8/92] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 107) Where can I get imake? Versions are distributed with the R4 and R5 releases. An earlier version is distributed with the X11R3 release; some third-party toolkits redistribute versions of imake along with their own implementations of the template and configuration files. There are no real standards for such configuration files, although most *current* contributed software expects the templates distributed with X11R5. export contains the R5 distribution unpacked, so you can pick up imake without picking up the entire distribution. A stand-alone version of Imake, but one stemming from X11R5, is in ftp.germany.eu.net:pub/X11/misc/imake/imake-pure.tar.Z (192.76.144.75). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 108) I have a program with an Imakefile but no Makefile. What to do? If you have R4 or R5 installed on your system, run ""xmkmf"". This is a script which runs imake for you with the correct arguments. The output is a Makefile configured for your system and based on the Imakefile. Then run make, which will use that new Makefile to compile the program. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 109) Why can't I link to the Xlib shape routines? When I try to compile certain programs, I get the following link error: Undefined: _XShapeQueryExtension _XShapeCombineMask These routines are actually part of the Shape Extension to X (SHAPE) which was introduced in the MIT X11R4 distribution and allows non-rectangular windows. Like the other sample server extensions, the shape extension will only run on a server which supports it. Pre-X11R4 servers, as well as many vendor-supplied servers, do not support the shape extension, in which case they will display rectangular windows anyway. In order to use the shape extension, you must link to the library libXext.a. In the X11R4 distribution, this library and the associated includes will be in the mit/extensions directory. If you do not have these files, do not despair: many freeware programs which use the shape extension can also be compiled without it by removing the -DSHAPE define from the Makefile; you can probably do this and compile successfully against your older vendor-supplied X libraries. [from John B. Melby, melby%yk.fujitsu.co.jp@uunet.uu.net, 3/91] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 110) What are these problems with ""_XtInherit not found"" on the Sun? When I run a X program that I wrote on a SunOS 4.0.3 or 4.1 machine I get the error ""ld.so: symbol not found _XtInherit"". What you are seeing is a side-effect of a kludge in the R4 libXt.a to get Sun shared libraries working. Apparently, you can't share a function that is both called and compared, as _XtInherit is. This was handled by putting _XtInherit in the same file as a function that is always used, thereby guaranteeing that it would be loaded -- that is, in Initialize.c, where XtToolkitInitialize() and XtInitialize() reside. These routines would normally be called. You are probably seeing this error because your program is not a normal Xt-based program and does not call XtToolkitInitialize() anywhere. 1) it may be a program that uses Xt functions but never opens a connection to the X server. [OSF/Motif's 1.1.0 UIL had this problem; it called XtMalloc() and other Xt functions.] The solution is to add the call to your program; the function does not have to be executed, just linked in. 2) alternatively, your program doesn't need any Xt functions and is correct in not calling XtToolkitInitialize() -- it may be an Xlib or XView program. In this case, you can remove -lXt from your link command. It should not be necessary to link the shared libraries statically, although this will certainly solve the problem. [from Jordan Hayes (now jordan@MooreNet.COM) and Danny Backx (db@sunbim.be); 11/90] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 111) Why can't I compile my R3 Xaw contrib programs under the new X? I have a program that worked well under X11R3. When I try to link it under the current version of X, I get this message: Undefined: _XtScrollBarSetThumb _XtTextSetInsertionPoint _XtTextReplace There were several name changes in the Athena widget set (in addition to the header files moving into ); these are mentioned in the R4 release notes. In this case, these functions are not really Xt functions but are part of the Xaw text widget and so have been renamed from Xt* to Xaw*. [10/90] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 112) TOPIC: PROGRAMMING PROBLEMS AND PUZZLES ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 113) Why doesn't my program get the keystrokes I select for (sic)? The window manager controls how the input focus is transferred from one window to another. In order to get keystrokes, your program must ask the window manager for the input focus. To do this, you must set up what are called ""hints"" for the window manager. If your applications is Xlib-based, you can use something like the following: XWMHints wmhints; ... wmhints.flags = InputHint; wmhints.input = True; XSetWMHints(dpy, window, &wmhints) If your application is based on the Xt Intrinsics, you can set the XtNinput resource to be True (as you probably want to in any case); if you don't have source, you can start up the application with the resource '*input:True'. Certain window managers, notably dxwm and olwm, are very picky about having this done. If you are using Sun's OpenWindows olwm, you can also add this resource to your defaults file to use clients that aren't ICCCM-compliant. OpenWindows.FocusLenience: true [mostly courtesy Dave Lemke of NCD and Stuart Marks of Sun] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 114) How do I figure out what window manager is running? You can't reliably tell; whatever mechanism you could use could be spoofed in any case. For most cases, you shouldn't care which window manager is running, so long as you do things in an ICCCM-conformant manner. There are some cases in which particular window managers are known to do things wrong; checking for particular hints placed on the window by the window manager so that you can sidestep the problem may be appropriate in these cases. Alternatively, it may be appropriate to determine which window manager is running in order to take advantage of specific *added* features (such as olwm's push-pin menus) in order to give your program *added* functionality. Beware of usurping the window manager's functions by providing that functionality even when it is missing; this surely leads to future compatibility problems. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 115) Is there a skeleton X program available? There is no general framework such as the TransSkel program for the Macintosh which handles lots of the odds and ends and overhead of development under a window system and which can be used as a platform for additional development. In X, the problem is typically solved by using an interactive application builder tool or by using cut&paste on existing X applications. Good applications which you might look to manipulate when you want to ""test just this one little thing"" include contrib/clients/xskel, a simple R4 program that puts up a window and allows sketching in it and offers a starting point for quick hacks, the Xaw examples in the examples/ directory in the R3 and R4 distributions, and the Xlib ""Hello World"" example in the R3 doc/HelloWorld and R4 doc/tutorials/HelloWorld; an updated version of this program which uses R4 Xlib calls and current ICCCM conventions was posted in 2/90 to comp.windows.x by Glenn Widener of Tektronix. [3/90] In addition, a sample Xt program (for Xaw or Xm) by Rainer Klute showing how to open multiple displays and how to catch a broken display connection is available on export.lcs.mit.edu in contrib/mdisp.tar.Z. [4/92] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 116) Why does XtGetValues not work for me (sic)? The XtGetValues interface for retrieving resources from a widget is sensitive to the type of variable. Your code may be doing something like this: { Arg args[3]; int i; int sensitive; /* oops; wrong data type */ i=0; XtSetArg (args[i], XtNsensitive, &sensitive); i++; XtGetValues(widget, args, i ); ... } But XtNsensitive is a Boolean, which on most machines is a single byte; declaring the variable ""sensitive"" as Boolean works properly. This problem comes up often when using particular toolkits that redefine the Xt types Dimension and Position; code that assumes they are int will have similar problems if those types are actually short. In general: you are safe if you use the actual type of the resource, as it appears in the widget's man page. [11/90] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 117) Why don't XtConfigureWidget/XtResizeWidget/XtMoveWidget work? You're probably trying to use these functions from application code. They should be used only internally to widgets; these functions are for a parent widget to change the geometry of its children. Other promising functions, XtMakeGeometryRequest() and XtMakeResizeRequest(), are also for use only by widgets, in this case by a child to request a change from its parent. The only way for your application to request a geometry change for a widget is to issue an XtSetValues call setting some of the geometry resources. Although this will result in the widget-internal functions' being called, your application code must use the standard XtSetValues interface or risk the widgets' data becoming corrupted. [The Xlib calls XMoveWindow() and XResizeWindow() should similarly be avoided; they shouldn't be used to change XtNx, XtNy, XtNwidth, or XtNheight.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: 118) Why isn't there an XtReparentWidget call like XReparentWindow? Although there are various details of the current implementation of the Xt internals which make reparenting difficult, the major reason that no such call exists is that it remains undefined what the set of resources for the ""new"" widget should be. Resources are typically set based on the location in the instance hierarchy; what resources should change if the instance moves? What should happen to the widget's children? And by the time such semantics are defined, there would probably be little advantage over destroying the old widget and creating a new widget in the correct location with the desired resources, as setting the resources correctly is the majority of work in creating a new widget. Note that reparenting is possible in the OI toolkit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- David B. Lewis faq%craft@uunet.uu.net ""Just the FAQs, ma'am."" -- Joe Friday -- David B. Lewis Temporarily at but not speaking for Visual, Inc. day: dbl@visual.com evening: david%craft@uunet.uu.net ",5 "Re: MBenz 300 series, VW Passat Go with the Mercedes, if you can afford it. I think the 300 wagon starts around 50k, although it could be 60k. There is no comparison with any of the other cars listed. -- Horace Dediu GTE Laboratories (617) 466-4111 40 Sylvan Road Internet: hdediu@gte.com Waltham, MA 02254 ",7 "Aviation Headset D.C. H10-40 For Sale For Sale: David Clark H10-40 Aviation Headset Excellent Condition (not even a scratch) -- original packaging. Discover for yourself why the H10-40 continues to be the favorite headset of thousands of pilots. It was the first headset to have the advanced M-4 amplified electret microphone - with a frequency response specifically designed to match the human voice. Also includes durable universal boom assembly and a noise reduction rating (NRR) of 24dB. Weighs 19 oz. ** Includes Telex ""push to talk switch"" Asking $220.00 U.S. Shipping negotiable. For more information respond to: afhetzel@netcom.com (Andrew) -- Andrew F. Hetzel ""I complete less work before 9:00am than afhetzel@netcom.com most people do all day."" Ann Arbor, MI USA ",6 "For Sale: Silverlining 5.42 Hard Disk Management Software Last two copies of silverlining 5.42 from La Cie for sale. This is disk management software. Lets you evalulate/test hard drive, install and test drivers, partition disks (supports AUX, ProDos, etc). Nice piece of software to have around the house. If you are interested please email your offers. First good offer also gets MacTree disk organization software free. khoh@usc.edu ",6 "Re: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter? baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes: >According the IAU Circular #5744, Comet Shoemaker-Levy 1993e, may be >temporarily in orbit around Jupiter. The comet had apparently made a >close flyby of Jupiter sometime in 1992 resulting in the breakup of the >comet. Ooooh -- who would have thought that Galileo would get the chance to check out a comet TOO?!? ",14 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article , bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes: >I've seen referrences to ""Creation vs Evolution"" several times in a.a >and I have question. Is either point of view derived from direct >observation; can either be scientific? I wonder if the whole >controversy is more concerned with the consequences of the ""Truth"" >rather than the truth itself. >Both sides seem to hold to a philosophical outcome, and I can't help >wondering which came first. As I've pointed out elsewhere, my view of >human nature makes me believe that there is no way of knowing >anyhthing objectively - all knowledge is inherently subjective. So, in >the context of a.a, would you take a stand based on what you actually >know to be true or on what you want to be true and how can you tell >the difference? Translation of the above paragraph: ""I am uninformed about the evidence for evolution. Please send me the talk.origins FAQs on the subject."" -- thomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany Johannes Scotus Eriugena, the greatest European philosopher of the 9th century, said that if reason and authority conflict, reason should be given preference. And if that doesn't sound reasonable to you, you'll just have to accept it... ",19 "Re: Don Cherry - help me out, here ""William K. Willis"" writes: > As a person who has rarely even SEEN Don Cherry and doesn't know >anything about him, I don't know whether it is just this area >(Pittsburgh) of the USA that is ""deprived"" of his broadcasts or whether >he's a Canadian thing altogether. Seriously, what is he all about? I >know he was a coach at one time, and from the volume of posts about him, >SOMEONE surely is getting a steady diet of him somehow, but my question >is, what is the deal with him? Secondly, are the comments of his that I >read about on the net merely flame bait, or do people actually take him >seriously? I gotta tell you, from what I see, he really sounds like an >ass. Let me know - maybe I'm missing something. From his Topps ""rookie"" year (as coach) card (74-75): ""For the past couple of seasons, Don has been the highly-successful coach of the Rochester Americans of the AHL, but he is getting his first shot at an NHL job with the Bruins. Named Coach of the Year in the AHL the last two years, and he aims to make the Bruins a rough team again, as they were a couple of years back. Although he played 16 seasons of professional hockey, Don never played a regular-season NHL game. He did appear in one playoff game for Boston in 1956-57. Don's brother, Dick, played two seasons in the NHL with Boston and Philadelphia."" -- Mark McKinzie | Listen, if they're going to buy lunch boxes, mckinzie@math.wisc.edu | they might as well buy David Cassidy lunch boxes. UW Dept. of Mathematics| Madison, WI 53706 | -David Cassidy- ",10 "Re: Clipper considered harmful In article <1993Apr25.193300.1707@microsoft.com> gideony@microsoft.com (Gideon Yuval) writes: >If these personal attacks are what stopped Prof. Denning from >replying on issues of substance, they have cause real harm >to the serious debate here. They are and they have. David -- David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of our information, errors and omissions excepted. ",11 "Alice in Wonderland In article <1rgmjn$567@access.digex.net> huston@access.digex.com (Herb Huston) writes: >If I wanted >to do this for _Alice in Wonderland_, I'd visit the British Museum where I >would find the original manuscript and be able to compare it to the printed >edition that I own (I'd find many differences including a different title). WHAT!!?!?? Are you trying to tell me, that the master of nonsenses' most famous work is not what is published? I'M SHOCKED!!! What are some of the differences? Did _Through_the_Looking_Glass_ also get changed? I've been using Martin Gardners Annotated Alice for my copy of that, how close is that to the real thing? -- *************************************************************************** * mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu * Never program and drink beer at the same * * M^2 * time. It doesn't work. * *************************************************************************** ",0 "Voting system/regulations for the European Parliament Since 1979, the members of the European Parliament (the parliamentary assemby of the European Community) have been elected directly by the citizens of the Member States. Before, the Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) were just Members of National Parliaments (MNPs) elected by and from among their peers. In the European Parliament, every Member State has a fixed number of seats, which increases less than proportionally with the population. Once in five years, a general European election is being held, in which the citizens of all Member States choose their representatives to the European Parliament. Next elections are due in 1994. Now the voting system for these European elections still differs from one country to another. Although the European Treaty enabling the direct election of the MEPs requires a uniform voting system, up to now every country has just used its own system, more or less the same one used for national elections. British MEPs are elected in a first-past-the-post system with one MEP per district; nearly all other States have chosen a system with proportional representation. But then in some countries (France, Italy) MEPs are allowed to be a MNP as well, whilst in others they are not (Belgium, Netherlands). The European Parliament is now working on a uniform election system for its own members, so that every candidate should have the same regulations to comply with, regardless of the Member State (s)he wants to be elected for. I would like to know what you people out there think of the following questions: 1. Do you think it is necessary to have uniform regulations or should every Member State continue to use its own regulations (for European elections that is)? 2. Do you think a system of majority voting should be implemented, with one or more MEPs per district, or would you prefer a system with proportional representation (for the whole of the Community or per state, per region, per district?). 3. Do you think the European Commission (or just its president) should be directly elected too, or should it be appointed by the European Parliament, or by the joint Member State governments as it is now? 4. The Maastricht Treaty allows subjects of Member States to stand for election in another Member State they are residing in. Do you think you would or could vote for a foreigner if his/her ideas appeal to you? 5. Do you think MEPs should be allowed to be a member of a national parliament or a regional parliament too? Or a member of a national or regional government body? 6. The European Parliament now has meetings in both Strasbourg and Brussels. MEPs themselves are for a complete move to Brussels in great majority, but political compromises between the governments of the Member States stick to the status quo. Do you approve of this or do you think the European Parliament should meet in one city only, and if yes, which? Please post your answers to eunet.politics, to which all followups are automatically directed. If you do not have access to that group, please mail your answer directly to me and I will post it for you. I hope many of you will take the time to post their views on this matter. -- Roland Siebelink - Lokaal B.034 Centrum voor de Studie van Nieuwe Vrije Universiteit Brussel SCOM/NMIT Media, Informatie en Telecommunicatie Pleinlaan 2 - 1050 Brussel - Belgium Tel. direkt: +32.2.641 24 15 E-mail Tel. centrum: +32.2.641 24 12 Talk Fax centrum: +32.2.641 28 61 ",18 "URGENT **** TED FRANK WANTED FOR KILLING AJ TEEL... ...His account that is. Many important issues, and some not-so important ones, are discussed here on the net on a daily basis. I have just been informed of what I feel is one of the most important things that we could ever discuss -- The out-and-out censorship of one of our fellow posters because some people don't like what he says or thinks. We have all seen the postings here by AJ Teel. Although many of us have not agreed with their content, I'm sure most of us have been at least somewhat interested in them. I, for one, am greatful to live (I thought) in a country where people like Mr. Teel are allowed to say what they please. If I don't wan't to read it, I can just skip on by, or unsuscribe. But, unfortunately, some people cannot let others live and let live. They feel an overwhelming need to snuff out the little bastards. Now it seems that Mr. Teel will be with us no more, due mainly to our brother, and cheif net police, Ted Frank. PLEASE HELP AJ TEEL REGAIN NET (POST) ACCESS AND CORRECT THIS INJUSTICE. ARE YOU ON TED'S HIT LIST? ARE YOUR THOUGHTS CORRECT? IS YOUR ACCOUNT SAFE? HAS YOUR SYSADMIN BEEN CONTACTED BY THE THOUGHT POLICE? I thought the NLG and the ACLU supported people with diverse opinions. NOT! Please read the following forwarded messages from AJ Teel so that you may understand this vial act for what it is... ------------------------------ forwarded --------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal Subject: Officer Ted Frank, Thought Police Badge Number NWO-666 Summary: Ted wins the argument by killing his opponent! Expires: Sender: ""A. J. Teel, Sui Juris"" (ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU) Followup-To: alt.conspiracy Distribution: Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Keywords: NWO Ted Frank Well, well, well... Thanks to eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) and thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank), my account is to be axed. I guess that the information I am presenting is just toooo difficult for them to deal with. They (ONLY Ted and Mark) have complained to my sysadmin some unknown number of times to get me off the net. (In his defense, Mark sent only one message and it was not THAT bad; it has been posted in one of the newsgroups; However, it *was* not directed at me as would be common practice and I am VERY good at responding via netmail...) While I disagree with Ted, I would not send mail to his sysadmin to get him axed. Name-calling was not enough; jumping on every post I made was not enough; ignoring specific points when they were not what the desired picture was not enough; SIMPLY IGNORING ME IF I AM SUCH A KOOK WAS NOT ENOUGH. Even now I do not wish to have him axed, but I do wish to express my disgust about this. ""Argumentum ad silence-your-opponent-um""?! I would have thought he would have wanted me to stay around just to have someone to yell about and seem sooo wise... (to himself, I think). The issue that seems to be: ""Is the following an advertisement?"" Apparently, Ted and Mark think so... 1) I Posted an article from around one year ago as it was taken *off the net* from last year. If reposting an article constitutes posting an ad, then I am guilty. This post did have a name and address and, yes, a price. If one had posted the address and subscription price of ""Newsweek"", would that be an ad? I get nothing from showing this stuff. 2) I Posted a list of documents showing examples of the kind of ""proof"" that was REQUESTED BY TED FRANK. He then complains to my sysadmin saying that I am advertising and, lo and behold, ""poof"", there goes my account. This one had an address in it! Oh, no! I Guess that means it is an ad! If you value the alternative view I have been discussing, or VALUE ITS DISCUSSION even if you do not agree with it, I ask that you send a note saying as much to me to show to the sysadmin. They rarely get ""Ya know, that user on your net was real helpful..."" or whatever; they only get ""I don't like what that user is doing because..."". Please do not send the note to the sysadmin. I need to take it to them in a manner that has at least a chance of getting through. In my files here are hundreds of responses from people saying ""Thanks for the info"" or ""Could you send me such and such?"" or ""Your posts are very interesting... keep it up."" and only a handfull of ""Go aways"". But, I guess the fact that I have decided not to waste my time trying to convince Ted is a Net Offense[TM] of such magnitude as to warrant a message complaining about me. (Knock, knock...""My name is Ted and and this is Mark... We're from the thought police. Seems you have some pretty dangerous ideas here, and we're here to confiscate them..."") NWO Indeed! Guess I will have to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new plan... Thanks Ted and Mike. Hope you are happy. I will be on for a few more days and then... that's all folks! Your comments and support are requested. I can no longer post to news. I ask what this has accomplished... Is there some benefit from making alternative views simply vanish? Not in my book. Seems the easiest way to win an argument is to make the opposing side shut up. Images of Waco.... ah, but alas... And all this when I am in the process of typing in a letter to me from the Tax Collector saying that a lien was removed due to a letter that I wrote challenging jurisdiction. Oh, well... It takes time to come up with the info requested, and I was just getting started. It should be noted that Ted Frank has been accused publicly over 40 times of being an NWO supporter and has never made an statements to the contrary. Further, what ARE Ted Frank's motivations for getting me axed? We all know that SOME PEOPLE are getting paid to collect info on people on the net that are of ""interest"" to the government, and Ted sure seems to have a *personal* interest in debunking me. Hmmm... just who does he work for? The University of Chicago which he ""attends""(?) is well known as one of the biggest NWO supporters... And finally, if anyone would be able to help me find a new account here in the Boulder/Denver area, I would greatly appreciate it. I am in the process of installing Linux and so will be able to do UUCP or maybe a TC/IP connection. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Since I am longer be able to post news and will no longer have email VERY soon, I hope that anyone who wishes to contact me will do so via: A. J. Teel, Sui Juris c/o USPS Box 19043 Boulder, Colorado, U.S.A. Postal Zone: 80308-9043 or leave me voice mail at: c/o (408) 281-0434 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Selected messages from Ted Frank via sysadmin follows: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With Explicit Reservation Of All Rights (U.C.C. 1-207) Regards, -A. J. Teel-, Sui Juris (ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU) --------------------------- >From barb@locutus.cs.colorado.edu Mon Apr 5 14:39:21 1993 Received: from locutus.cs.colorado.edu by dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU with SMTP id AA14777 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 14:39:19 -0600 Received: by locutus.cs.colorado.edu with SMTP id AA15908 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 14:36:54 -0600 Message-Id: <199304052036.AA15908@locutus.cs.colorado.edu> To: ""Ted Frank"" Subject: Re: List of documents Cc: cstmr@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, csops@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, ajteel@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, vaxops@locutus.cs.colorado.edu Reply-To: trouble@cs.colorado.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 05 Apr 93 13:29:06 CDT Date: Mon, 05 Apr 93 14:36:51 -0600 From: barb@locutus.cs.colorado.edu Status: OR -------- Please ask ******* to stop advertising his wares on the network. Thank you. [Editor's Note: ^^^???] In article <1993Apr5.154256.5169@colorado.edu> ajteel writes: >[START OF DOCUMENT: doclist.txt.lis ] >DOCUMENTS NOW AVAILABLE > >BILL MEDINA, Sui Juris >Post Office Box 70400 >Sunnyvale, California, U.S.A. >Postal Zone: 94086-0400 (79 lines deleted). --------------- Resolution: --------------- Thank you. He has been warned before. We are taking action. Barbara J. Dyker Department of Computer Science Manager, Computer Operations Campus Box 430B, ECEE00-69 barb@cs.colorado.edu University of Colorado (303) 492-2545 Boulder, CO 80309-0430 -------------------- >From barb@locutus .cs.colorado.edu Mon Apr 5 15:50:36 1993 Received: from locutus.cs.colorado.edu by dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU with SMTP id AA15809 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 15:50:34 -0600 Received: by locutus.cs.colorado.edu id AA16069 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ajteel); Mon, 5 Apr 1993 15:50:27 -0600 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 15:50:27 -0600 From: Barbara Dyker Message-Id: <199304052150.AA16069@locutus.cs.colorado.edu> Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.87.1) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.87.1) To: ajteel@locutus.cs.colorado.edu Subject: your account Cc: vaxops@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, usenet@locutus.cs.colorado.edu, mozer@locutus.cs.colorado.edu Status: OR [...] I had already warned you that your inappropriate use of your account here must stop. You have used your account here as a soapbox for your political ""sui juris"" agenda. [...] > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 13:26:43 -0700 > From: barb@locutus.cs.colorado.edu > To: ajteel@locutus.cs.colorado.edu > > Also, if you are reported for any more commercial > announcements, your account may be disabled. [Editor's note: What commercial advertisemnets are we talking about?] > From: barb@bruno.cs.colorado.edu > To: ""A.J. Teel"" > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 17:26:40 MST > [...] > As long as > they aren't causing any problems, we typically don't > mind. ...We have received two complaints about the > content of your messages so far (at least one of which I > consider valid) - which already constitutes excessive > in my book. Just don't let it happen again. [Editor's note: I *wonder* who the other post was from??!] >From laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu Thu Mar 18 01:40:15 1993 To: ""Ted Frank"" Subject: Re: Bouncing Cc: cstmr@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu, csops@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu Reply-To: trouble@cs.colorado.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 17 Mar 93 21:05:59 CST Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 08:40:15 MST From: laszlo@eclipse.cs.colorado.edu -------- In article <1993Mar18.012344.6213@colorado.edu> ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU >Bounced names: > garry@research.att.com > bill@kean.usc.mun.ca > jad@hopper.Virginia.EDU > kima@gator.rational.com > >Hello All: > I am having trouble reaching the following (keeps bouncing). > If you sent me mail and haven't gotten a response, check here. > Also, can anyone tell me why these are bouncing? I used > the reply in elm which should send it right back, right? >With Explicit Reservation Of All Rights (U.C.C. 1-207) >Regards, -A. J. Teel-, Sui Juris (ajteel@dendrite.cs.Colorado.EDU) > [...] [Editor's Note: The reason for posting the header lines from the bounced messages was to show what the problem was and hopefully correct it.] [Ted Frank] It's inexcusable to post 150 lines of bounced mail headers to four newsgroups. A simple four-line post would have been sufficient. --------------- Resolution: --------------- [Lazlo] yes i agree. BUT our policy is to not watch everypost someone here makes. we generally let the net itself take care of inappropriate postings by flaming the user into shape (which i assume this is ment to be). we (CS operations) don't like to get involved in this stuff (unless its illegal, repetitive posts of 1gig gifs, harassment, or something else that offends the community in general). my suggestion is that you take it to email and explain what a post for bounces should look like or tell him to RTFM laz [Editor's note: Obviously, Ted had no such intention of doing so...] ted frank | ""However Teel should have mentioned that though thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | his advice is legally sound, if you follow it the u of c law school | you will probably wind up in jail."" standard disclaimers | -- James Donald, in misc.legal [Editor's Note: From this .sig, it seems obvious that Ted Frank has an axe to grind... Why that particular quote?.... Hmmm... Sure makes me wonder.] -- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lance W. Bledsoe lwb@im4u.cs.utexas.edu (512) 258-0112 | | ""Ye shall know the TRUTH, and the TRUTH shall make you free."" | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",18 "Re: Rodney King Trial, Civil Rights Violations, Double Jeopardy In <1993Apr2.182942.22445@husc3.harvard.edu> spanagel@husc11.harvard.edu (David Spanagel) writes: |Recently it's occured to me that I've never heard of any PERSON ever being |tried in Federal Court for violating someone's civil rights. Of course |there have been cases before the Supreme Court in which it was decided |that someone's civil rights had been violated (e.g., Miranda, Escobedo, |etc.), but institutions were, de facto, the defendants, not individuals. Am I |mistaken? Have there been similar cases against individuals in the past? I know it was used several times in the south, to prosecute the murders of blacks, after all white juries had cleared the accussed. |Furthermore, what are the specific charges against the four LAPD officers? |Which civil rights or laws are they accused of violating? I believe it is a general charge, that is no specific right is mentioned. |What about double jeopardy? Has there been any concern that a verdict |against Koon, et al. might be overturned upon appeal because they're being tried |again for the same actions? (I thought I heard something on the news about |this.) The SS has previously ruled that since the seperate governments were in essence seperate sovereigns, then double jeopardy does not apply. (If this is true, then could defendents also be tried under city and county governments?) This mornings paper said that the ACLU has decided to reinstate its opposition to this kind of thing. They had earlier suspended their opposition while they examined the King case. There might be hope for the ACLU after all. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com ",18 "Re: Nords 3 - Habs 2 in O.T. We was robbed!! In article <18APR93.25909598.0086@VM1.MCGILL.CA> JBE5 writes: >Aargh! > >Paul Stewart is the worst and most biased ref. presently in the NHL. >He called a total of 4 penalties on the Habs and one on the Nordiques. >The Nords' penalty came in O.T. Stewart, being an ex-Nordique himself, >was looking to call penalties on the Habs while letting the Nords >get away with murder...WE WAS ROBBED!!!! No. Patrick Roy is the reason the game was lost, and Ron Hextall is the reason Quebec won. Everybody said it would come down to goaltending, that goaltending was the key, etc etc. Well, the key doesn't quite fit if you're Montreal. The Dionne penalty was kind of a cheesy call, but let's face it; he literally left his feet to throw an elbow. Blaming Stewart is just an excuse to avoid facing the fact that Roy allowed what was one of the worst goals he could possibly allow. He even saw the whole shot, dammit. Besides, Stewart evened things up a bit by calling a Quebec penalty in OT. Montreal played a solid game (although they still don't know how to clear traffic in front of the net; the loss of Schneider will hurt even more). Normally I would say that any team that blows a 2-goal lead with less than five, let alone two, minutes to go in regulation time IN A PLAYOFF GAME ESPECIALLY needs to be smacked upside their collective heads. But I don't think this was a team loss (although Keane should have been able to clear the zone just prior to the first Quebec goal). Roy is paid big money to play. He looked like a player in an industrial league on Sakic's shot. Demers should start Racicot in the next game. If not that, he should let the damn team read the papers for the next day or two....and maybe this article, if possible. >Patrick Roy collapsed after letting in the tieing goal. He was shaky and >on his knees for the rest of the night. The winning goal shouldn't have >gone in. I didn't think the wrap-around was as bad as the second goal. I also didn't think Scott Young should have gotten around the defender (can't remember who) in the first place. But you are correct, it shouldn't have gone in regardless. >Oh well, at least the Bruins lost in O.T. also Ha, Ha!!--) Yep. Moog looked bad on Mogilny's goal with five seconds left in the second, IMO. How about Neely though? Holy shit, what a player. Speaking of great players, man-oh-man can Quebec skate. I haven't seen a team so potent on the rush in a long time. Watching them break out of their zone, especially Sundin, is a treat to watch. They remind me of the Red Army. But I still hate the team. On the rest of the games: Didn't St. Louis' winning goal come on a powerplay? Penalties will cost Chicago dearly, especially against Detroit. Same goes for Calgary; very, very undisciplined. When Marty McSorely is waving guys to the bench to *avoid* fights, you know something's up. New Jersey was overmatched, Terreri's heroics notwithstanding. Mario is unbelievable, and Jagr for some reason shows up in the playoffs. But I hate that team anyway. dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (pissed-off Habs fan) ",10 "prayers and advice requested on family problem My brother has been alienated from my parents and me since shortly after his marriage to a domineering and insecure woman, about twelve years ago. We've kept things on a painfully polite, Christmas-card sort of level for most of this time. Attempts to see each other end disastrously, with his wife throwing a screaming fit and storming out over either our imagined slights to her, or his inattention or insensitivity to her (I mean, this'll happen by the end of a single restaurant meal). He seems, from what I've seen, to live in a state of quivering anxiety, hoping futilely to keep the next storm from breaking. He has sacrificed not only meaningful contact with us but also other friends and outside interests. Now, this is his choice, and I need to accept it even if I deplore it. But it's hard. From time to time I've wanted to drop the pretense that we have a relationship--by cutting off contact--or trying to have a real if painful relationship, by talking honestly with him, but I've always thought, ""Why be dramatic? And you know he'll only get evasive and then find some excuse to get off the phone. Just leave the door open, in case he ever decides to come back."" It's been an unsatisfying choice, to allow us to go on with the superficial trappings of a relationship, but it was the best I could think of. Now, this weekend, my mother finally decided that she wasn't going to pretend any more and has cut off relations with them. This was the outcome of a phone conversation in which my sister-in-law screamed and raved at my mother, blaming her for everything wrong in their lives, and in which my brother evaded, temporized, claimed the situation was beyond his control, and as always expected my mother to make all the allowances and concessions. Mom said she would not, that she would not quietly take abuse any more, and that if these were the terms of their relationship, she didn't want to talk to or see them any more. And she hung up. (I have never seem my mother lose her temper, and I think that this is the first time she's ever hung up on someone.) Mom says she feels as if she's divorced my brother, and that it's a relief in some ways to have the break out in the open and done with. I have mixed feelings. I'm proud of Mom for sticking up for herself; angry at my brother and sister-in-law for hurting her, for being jerks, for persisting in such a wretched life, which hurts us all and is warping their children; angry at my sister-in-law for being so hateful, and angry at my brother for being a coward and having so little respect for himself or us that he's willing to throw us aside and use up all his energy trying to appease an unappeasable, emotionally disturbed woman; pained for their children, who are a mess; scared for the future, since this marks the time when either things will change and improve or the break will become irrevocable; nastily self- righteous over this bit of proof that they can't ""get away"" with treating us or each other this way, and then disgusted with myself for even beginning to gloat over others' misery; and finally, mostly, sad, sad, sad, to see my parents hurt and my brother and sister-in-law trapped in a horrible, destructive situation that they can't see a way out of--or they can't bear to take whatever paths they do see. And I'm frustrated because I don't know what if anything to do, and doing nothing drives me up the wall. I try to pray, about my own feelings of rage, impotence, and vindictiveness, and about their situation, but I am not free of the desire to *DO* something concrete. (The desire to *DO* something, to define a problem and fix it, is one of my besetting vices; I'm having a terrible time quieting down my internal mental chatter enough to listen for God.) Do you thoughtful and kind people on the net have advice for me? Is this a time to reach out to my brother? To let things be? How can I conquer my rage AT him enough to be there FOR him? Here's the big question I've been evading throughout this long, long post: Is it ok, as a Christian and a proponent of faith, hope, and charity, to accept the destruction of a relationship? To give up on my own brother, or at least to accept that I am powerless to help him and can only wait and see what happens? Do please answer--by e-mail or post. Thank you. Julie (jjmarvin@pucc.princeton.edu) ",15 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. [ Lots of stuff deleted because I felt like it ] This MS bashing has definitely lost all its humor value. I think most of the people posting are forgetting that most users of MS products do not even know about internet, and Unix is that very unfriendly place where bizzare abreviations replace the rather comfortable abreviations they know. And the abreviations have subtle differences between the different vendors. While PC users tend to customize any windowing setup, they can not do much with their command line. So to most of the computer users in the world MS product symbolize quality. MS has made their life easier, and more productive and to them that is quality. They do not care about what innovative things MS has done, other than to make their life with a computer one heck of a lot easier. You may know better than most computer users in this world but that will not change their perception. Face it until Unix come up with a decent GUI that is available to all variations of Unix it just will not catch on with the mainstream of computer users. We here on the net are not mainstream computer users. Brian -- Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine not those of BNR. ____________________________________________________________________________ | Brian, WS1S (ST/TT User/Developer) | If I wanted a computer to play games | | Bell Northern Research | on I'd buy an Amiga. However I have | | Research Triangle Park, NC | real work to do. So please get lost! | |____________________________________|_______________________________________| ",2 "Re: Final Regular Season Individual Goalie Stats What about including points? Probably no goals (at least against opponents) but there have been several assists given. -- Ian Neath | There are four kinds of people in this world: neath@psych.purdue.edu | cretins, fools, morons and lunatics - U. Eco ",10 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <15427@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: | |> # 1) So what? |> |> Homosexuals lie about the 10% number to hide the disproportionate |> involvement of homosexuals in child molestation. They also lie |> about ""10%"" to keep politicians scared. |> Back your statments with proof, or shut up. |> # 2) It will be interesting to see the reaction when 2.5million queers |> # gather in Washington DC. After all if there are only 6million of |> # us then this is an event unprecidented in history... |> |> But many of the people who will be marching aren't homosexuals, but |> other members of the leftist agenda. |> Again, back your statements or shut up. |> # #The article also contains numbers on the number of sexual partners. |> # #The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3. |> # |> # Don't forget that 25% had 20 or more partners.... |> |> Not surprising. Remember, that study includes homosexuals as well. |> Hmm... Tell me, did you go to the Mickey Mouse school of logic? You have just stated that there are not many homosexuals as Kinsey reported in his survey (and the surveys of the Kinsey Institute since). Then you say that the reason many young people are promiscuous is because homosexuals form a large part of that group, or there are some homosexuals whose lives consist of having sex, with no gaps for eating &c. Using *your* logic it would seem to suggest that on average gay men have about 2000 partners each a week! Try to think through your arguments carefully. Or then again, not, because I like to laugh every now and then. |> # #Compared to the table I have already posted from Masters, Johnson, |> # #and Kolodny showing male homosexual partners, it is apparent that |> # #homosexual men are dramatically more promiscuous than the general |> # #male population. |> # |> # And what did this study show for number of sexual contacts for those |> # who said they where homosexual? Or is that number to inconvient for |> # you.... |> |> It wasn't published. |> Hence the argument cannot be resolved using this data. Next point, please. |> # #It's a shame that we don't have a breakdown for |> # #straight men vs. gay/bi men -- that would show even more dramatically |> # #how much more promiscuous gay/bi men are. |> # |> # Fuck off |> |> Typical homoseuxal response. |> |> This depends on the premise that there are only three types of behaviour: gay, bi and hetero. This has yet to be proved. See an earlier post about the Kinsey Institute of grading. This, although rough, seems more logical. Also you use ""this would show"", defining a fact and not an assumption. Again, back your statements or shut up. > |> -- |> Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! |> Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. -- +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) | | eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! | +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",18 "Re: Militello update In article <93602@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule) writes: > >HEY!!! All you Yankee fans who've been knocking my prediction of Baltimore. Um. How many games have the Orioles won? >You flooded my mailbox with cries of ""Militello's good, Militello's good."" He is, or will be. >Where is he??!! I noticed he got skipped over after that oh so strong first >outing. He's not by any chance in Columbus now, is he? Please don't tell >me you're relying on this guy to be the *fourth*, not the fifth, but the >*fourth* starter on this brittle pitching staff. No, currently there's no room for him in the rotation. Key is having a Most Impressive April. Abbott is pitching well. Perez is back. Wickman has pitched his way into the rotation, and is holding his spot with an outstanding performance his last time out. And Kamieniecki isn't doing too poorly himself. If the Yankees find themselves in need of a starter, Militello will get another chance. Until then, he'll have to wait in line. -Valentine ",9 "85 MB Western Digital Hard Drive For Sale WESTER DIGITAL - Caviar 280 Internal Hard Drive 85.3 MB 3.5"" Half Height IDE 1.5 Years Old Great Shape! $160 or closest offer! -Mike davi@saturn.rowan.edu ",6 "Mini-vacation package for sale I have a following ACAPULCO/CANCUN mini-vacation voucher for sale: Voucher entitles the holder to ONE ROUNDTRIP airfare and THREE DAYS/TWO NIGHTS lodging for ONE or TWO adults in ACAPULCO or CANCUN (your choice!), Mexico. You have 15 MONTHS to use the voucher. All reservations must be made 60 days in advance. Holiday and peak periods are excluded. Flights generally depart mid-week, usually on Tuesdays from more than 70 major airports. Additional air transportation for additional person will be made available. $50.00 FULLY REFUNDABLE deposit is required. It should be sent along with the voucher to Casablanca Express by June 12, 1993. After that you will get the reservation request form in which you have ONE YEAR to travel. This package doesn't include meals, hotel taxes and gratuities. The voucher is offered by Casablanca Express, 6345 Balboa Blvd., Ste. 130, Encino, CA 91316. Approximate retail value of the voucher is cited to be $1,100.00. The voucher is fully transferable. Best offer takes it! Greg Landsberg@sbhep2.phy.sunysb.edu ",6 "Re: was: Go Hezbollah!! In article eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: >amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi) writes: > >>You know when Israelis F16 (thanks to General Dynamics) fly high in the sky >>and bomb the hell out of some village in Lebanon, where civilians including >>babies and eldery getting killed, is that plain murder or what? > >If you Arabs wouldn't position guerilla bases in refugee camps, artillery >batteries atop apartment buildings, and munitions dumps in hospitals, maybe >civilians wouldn't get killed. Kinda like Saddam Hussein putting civilians >in a military bunker. > >Ed. Who is the you Arabs here. Since you are replying to my article you are assuming that I am an Arab. Well, I'm not an Arab, but I think you are brain is full of shit if you really believe what you said. The bombardment of civilian and none civilian areas in Lebanon by Israel is very consistent with its policy of intimidation. That is the only policy that has been practiced by the so called only democracy in the middle east! I was merley pointing out that the other side is also suffering. Like I said, I'm not an Arab but if I was, say a Lebanese, you bet I would defende my homeland against any invader by any means. ",17 "Re: Motif vs. [Athena, etc.] In article <1993Apr16.133856.21829@nrao.edu> rgooch@rp.CSIRO.AU (Richard Gooch) writes: : really involved there). Many people using Linux like to stay at the cutting : (bleeding) edge: ie. when kernel patches, C library or compiler patches come : out, people like to rebuild their entire systems. The prime requirement for : all Linux software is that it is available under a GNU style public license. : Hence, Linux software uses either the Athena widgets or XView. : Individuals may write software requiring Motif, but I doubt it is widely : adopted. Shameless plug -- the Xaw3d widgets make Athena a much nicer alternative than the stock MIT Athena code. ...Mike -- Michael J. O'Connor | Internet: mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com Ford Motor Company, OPEO | UUCP: ...!fmsrl7!opeo!mjo 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001 | Phone: +1 (313) 248-1260 Dearborn, MI 48121 | Fax: +1 (313) 323-6277 ",5 "Re: Radar detector DETECTORS? In <1993Apr06.173031.9793@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu> ragee@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (Randy Agee) writes: >So, the questions are - > What do the radar detector detectors actually detect? > Would additional shielding/grounding/bypassing shield stray RF generated by > a radar detector, or is the RF actually being emitted by the detector > antenna? > Are any brands ""quieter"" than others? Ok, so your a HAM. Well, tune in 10.7Mhz or 455Khz. These numbers sound like some you have herd before? Thats right, you guessed it, they are common IF numbers. Every Super-Het receiver has a local oscillator(s) which generates an IF. This is what your detector detector is detecting (the local oscillator). Some of these have two or more local oscillator which generate more ways to receiver you. If you want to receiver something at say 10.525Ghz you must generate a local oscillator signal of 10.525Ghz - 10.7Mhz = your local osc frequency. This 10.7Mhz IF is then fed into a normal AGC ckt. The detector is keyed uppon the AGC voltage (your mileage may vary). Since the AGC is a negative feed back device, a positive voltage sets off a ... I think you get the picture. ",12 "Pens playoff radio coverage (was:Re: Radio stations) In article ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes: >greanias@texas.mitre.org (Steve Greanias) writes: > >I can give you a couple. In Detroit, WJR (760) will be broadcasting >at least the first couple of games of the Wings-Toronto series, and >since they broadcast at 50000 Watts, you may be able to pick it up >after dark where you are at. The Pittsburgh Penguins games used to be >broadcast on KDKA 1020, but I don't know whether they will be pre-empted >by baseball (and moved to another station) or not. You can try those >if the local baseball teams aren't playing at the same time, anyway. According to this morning's Post-Gazette: The Pens will be carried by KDKA-Radio(1020 am), unless the Pirates are playing. When the Pirates play, the games will be carried by WDVE(102.5 fm). WDVE will carry 12 games, starting with tonight's game. In fact, after this season, KDKA will no longer be the flagship station for the Pens. The Penguins and KBL have struck a new deal regarding the TV and radio rights to the games. It seems more than likely that WDVE will be the flagship radio station next season. KBL will carry 62 games on tv, with 17 of the games to be simulcast on KDKA-TV. The remaining 22 games, as well as some of the early round playoff games, will be available by ""subscription tv"" only. To receive the games, you'll have to pay a one time hook up fee, and then a monthly fee of $11-12 dollars. Also, under the new deal, there will no longer be radio/tv simulcasts. There will be a TV broadcast team, and a radio broadcast team. No word on who the announcers will be. Mike Lange and Paul Steigerwald are both under contract with KDKA, but their contracts expire at the end of this season. KBL President Bill Craig said he'd like to hire Lange and Steigerwald. Lori Contact for the Penguins lli+@cs.cmu.edu ",10 "Cold-blooded slaughter of Muslim women and children by Armenians. In article <1993Apr17.011112.27439@news.columbia.edu> lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes: >Hmm. Maybe I'll go rent Midnight Express tonight. I haven't seen that >scene in awhile; I have to savor the moment all over again. Well, does it change the fact that during the period of 1914 to 1920, the fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government ordered, incited, assisted and participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people because of race, religion and national origin? As in the past in Turkiye, and today in Azerbaijan, for utopic and idiotic causes the Armenians brought havoc to their neighbors. A short-sighted and misplaced nationalistic fervor with a wrong agenda and anachronistic methods the Armenians continue to become pernicious for the region. As usual, they will be treated accordingly by their neighbors. Nagorno-Karabag is a mountainous enclave that lies completely within Azerbaijan with no border or history whatsoever connected to x-Soviet Armenia. Besides the geographical aspect, Nagorno-Karabag is the historic homeland and the 'cradle' of the artistic and literary heritage of Azerbaijan, which renders the Armenian claims preposterous, even lunatic. And we still demand: 1. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government, as the heirs of the Armenian dictatorship, recognize the Turkish Genocide; 2. that x-Soviet Armenia return the historic homeland to the Turkish and Kurdish people; 3. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government make material reparations for their heinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Turkish Genocide; 4. that all world governments officially recognize the Turkish Genocide and Turkish territorial rights and refuse to succumb to all Armenian political pressure. The awareness of the Turkish people of the necessity of solidarity in the efforts to pursue the Turkish Cause is seen by the victims of the first genocide of the 20th century as a positive step. Now what would you do? Source: 'The Sunday Times,' 1 March 1992 (a British Weekly, written by Thomas Goltz, from Agdam, Azerbaijan.) ARMENIAN SOLDIERS MASSACRE HUNDREDS OF FLEEING FAMILIES. The spiralling violence gripping the outer republics of the former Soviet Union gained new impetus yesterday with cold-blooded slaughter of hundreds of women and children in war-racked Nagorno-Karabakh. Survivors reported that Armenian soldiers shot and bayoneted more than 450 Azeris, many of them women and children, who were fleeing an attack on their town. Hundreds, possibly thousands, were missing and feared dead. The attackers killed most of the soldiers and volunteers defending the women and children. They then turned their guns on the terrified refugees. The few survivors later described what happened:"" That's when the real slaughter began,"" said Azer Hajiev, one of three soldiers to survive. ""The Armenians just shot and shot. And then they came in and started carving up people with their bayonets and knives."" "" They were shooting, shooting, shooting"", echoed Rasia Aslanova, who arrived in Agdam with other women and children who made their way through Armenian lines. She said her husband, Kayun, and a son-in-law were killed in front of her. Her daughter was still missing. One boy who arrived in Agdam had an ear sliced off. The survivors said 2000 others, some of whom had fled separately, were still missing in the gruelling terrain; many could perish from their wounds or the cold. By late yesterday, 479 deaths had been registered at the morgue in Agdam's morgue, and 29 bodies had been buried in the cemetery. Of the seven corpses I saw awaiting burial, two were children and three were women, one shot through the chest at point blank range. Agdam hospital was a scene of carnage and terror. Doctors said they had 140 patients who escaped slaughter, most with bullet injuries or deep stab wounds. Nor were they safe in Agdam. On friday night rockets fell on the city which has a population of 150,000, destroying several buildings and killing one person. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Gun Buy Back > >On Thu, 22 Apr 1993 17:37:34 GMT, R1328@vmcms.csuohio.edu wrote: > >> Firearms are the fifth-leading cause of unintentional deaths among children >> ages 14 and under. > >From the rkba archive, ""rkba.004"": > > ""Total firearm deaths for children (<1 through 14) at 587 (1988) is > one of the SMALLEST causes of deaths in children. Cars, falls, > burns, drowning, food ingestion are all much larger cause of > deaths (7,988)."" > >So, firearms are the 6th leading cause, after drowning and choking on >food (at least for 1988). Sorry Charles...According to the National Safety Council, ACCIDENT FACTS,1991 ""In 1990, gun accidents were the fifth-leading cause of accidental death for children ages 14 and under."" >> I don't understand how the ratio to other accidental >> deaths is important. So guns don't kill as many children as car accidents. >> What is the difference in severity between 1,000 deaths and 10,000 deaths? > >The difference is that a rational person would address the leading >cause _first_, and address the lesser causes later. > That thinking is so screwed up, I don't even know how to respond to it. A rational person would concentrate on motor vehicle deaths, and not attempt to affect childhood falls, drownings, gunshot injuries, etc.???????????????? So this so called rational person, (using your definition), if he or she were attempting to affect the leading causes of deaths for adults aged 25 through 64 would only worry about cancer, and would not try to decrease LESSER CAUSES such as heart disease, injuries, stroke, suicide, liver disease, chronic lung disease, homicide, HIV infection, or diabetes. Oh, okay Charles, that makes a lot of sense. I tell you what Charles, I'll call the Heart Foundation and suicide hotlines and tell them that they are not acting rational and that they can all go home because they are addressing the LESSER CAUSES of death. And you call your local police homicide department, liver foundation and diabetes foundation and tell them to stop addressing these lesser causes. Please, quit wasting my time with this silly shit Charles. I've got an idea Charles, why don't you start a talk.politics.caraccidents group or talk.politics.fall group? This is talk.politics.guns. Don't confuse the issue. Just because a social problem may not claim as many victims as another, we should not try to address it? I don't agree. I'm not posting to t.p.g to debate the supposed severity of causes of childhood deaths. I am really getting frigging sick of having to respond to the irrational statements of people who assume that someone who wants to discuss youth gun violence or unintentional youth gun deaths is trying to make a political issue out of it. >> I assumed that any humane >> person would be concerned when any 10 year old got hold of their parents >> gun from their bedroom drawer and accidently blew away one of their friends. > >A ""humane person"" who keeps a firearm in the house with a 10 year old >would also teach this child how to safely handle the firearm; >Ignorance is our greatest enemy. > Again Charles, you tend to confuse the issue and take things out of context for your own purposes. The statement that you responded to above is actually in reference to a previous post by another person who, like you, expressed concern over making youth gun violence a priority. I guess, maybe Humane person and Rational person could be interchangeable huh? Both would be defined as ""a person who only addresses the social problem that causes the greatest number of childhood deaths."" If that is the case, I'm extremely glad that I am inhumane and irrational. >> Well Joe, I suggest that you talk to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >What _other_ sources of information do you have which confirms their >data? These folks are well known for misrepresenting the facts. >Perhaps you can verify their data with the Uniform Crime Report... > Sorry Charles, the FBI Uniform Crime Report is WELL known for misrepresenting the facts. But if you insist, according to the 1990 UCR, ""Firearm murders of youngsters 19 and under increased 125 percent between 1984 and 1990"" Is the National Center for Health Statistics good enough for you? They state that ""Every day, 12 American children ages 19 and under are killed in gun accidents, suicides, and homicides. Many more are wounded"". Or how about the National Pediatric Trauma Registry? They say ""Gunshot wounds to children ages 16 and under nearly doubled in major urban areas between 1987 and 1990."" Do you also doubt the American Academy of Pediatrics Charles??? They state that ""Gunshot wounds among children in urban areas increased 300% from 1986 to 1988."" Charles, I hope you don't need to be convinced that youth are increasingly victims of gun injuries and that they have easy access to guns. If you don't realize this fact, (I don't care if you go by CDC or FBI data, or if you go into the homes, schools, and streets where these kids are and take a poll by yourself), I'm not going to bother to try to convince you. Its obvious that you have ruled out any idea of discussing this issue in a sane fashion and that you are so focused on trying to make this a gun control and political discussion. I really don't want to do that. >> or the Centers for Disease Control. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >They have firearm statistics? Are firearms a disease? > Charles, it's obvious that you know nothing about the CDC. They don't just study cancer and heart disease. I've got news for you, interpersonal gun violence IS an epidemic. In 1984, Surgeon General C. Everett Koop declared that gun violence is as much a public health problem as cancer, heart disease, or auto accidents. >> that YOU greatly underestimate the presence of guns in the lives of youths. > >In ""the lives of youths"" or in their schools? I know a number of >youths who have firearms present ""in their lives"". Is is quite >appropriate to teach children to safely handle firearms (this is a >""presence"", right?). What are you trying to say? This innuendo >reminds me of listening to Bill Clinton. WHO THE F**K SAID ANYTHING ABOUT TEACHING CHILDREN TO SAFELY HANDLE FIREARM CHARLES??? In the future, if you are going to post to t.p.g and jump into a previous discussion, please read the entire posting, not just 1 sentence that you decide to respond to. What the hell are you saying here??? You're wasting time and space trying to make a political and gun control issue out of a discussion that isn't. > >> The CPHV reports that 135,000 youth bring GUNS to school DAILY and that >> 400,000 bring GUNS to school at least once a year. > >I wouldn't trust their statistics without *independent* verification. > >> The CDC estimates >> that 1 out 0f 25 high school students carried a gun to school at least once >> in 1990. > >Based on CPHV statistics? Based on UCR?... Based on what? > >> The CDC also says that 1.2 million elementary-aged, latch-key >> children (kids who come home from school to an empty house), have access >> to guns in their home. > >Therefore?... What is the purpose of this claim? > Charles buddy, I'm getting really tired of this. Do you live on the planet Mars??? As a physicist, I realize that you probably don't come into contact with many youth, but I REALLY think you need to make a trip to your local urban high school and discover the joy of guns in schools. In addition spend a few minutes talking to these kids. Ask them if they have ever heard gunshots in their neighborhoods, whether they know anyone who has been shot, whether they know anyone who has a gun, whether they have ever held a gun, and whether they themselves have ever been shot. Believe me Charles, THAT will be your *INDEPENDENT* VERIFICATION. ########################################################################### Rodney W. Thomas R1328@vmcms.csuohio.edu Urban Child Research Center Cleveland State University Cleveland,OH. 44115 ########################################################################### >-- ",16 "Hard drive 40M IDE, only $90, 6 months old! I am upgrading my hard drive so I am selling this 40 M drive, it run great, without any problem, for $90 and share the shipping. Eric ",6 "what size vram simm is this? Hi everyone. I recently posted about how I received a bad vram chip for my new LCIII, and someone responded that it may not actually be bad, but it may be a 512K LC vram chip, and thus doesn't work properly with my computer. So I'm wondering if anyone can interpret these codes for me, so I can figure out what type of chip MacConnection sent me. Each chip says: M518121A-80J 2515251 On the back of the card, it says 0593 I believe from the numbers that means it is an 80ns chip, but I can't figure out what the size is supposed to be. If anyone can help, I'd be grateful. Please email me your response. Thanks a lot! -- Hillel Sims ----- simsh@rpi.edu ----- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute ""Is rot13 rotated 13 forward or backward?"" --Anonymous ",4 "Re: islamic authority over women In article <1993Apr19.120352.1574@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) wrote: >> The problem with your argument is that you do not _know_ who is a _real_ > believer and who may be ""faking it"". This is something known only by > the person him/herself (and God). Your assumption that anyone who > _claims_ to be a ""believer"" _is_ a ""believer"" is not necessarily true. So that still leaves the door totally open for Khomeini, Hussein et rest. They could still be considered true Muslims, and you can't judge them, because this is something between God and the person. You have to apply your rule as well with atheists/agnostics, you don't know their belief, this is something between them and God. So why the hoopla about Khomeini not being a real Muslim, and the hoopla about atheists being not real human beings? Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",0 "Attractive drawing on the sphere S P H E R I C A L D E S I G N I N G I have made an attractive program on AT-computer for drawing on the sphere and pasting it of paper. For children, artists and education. I can send an example to alt.source.wanted, on which you can see the rotation of the sphere, if you are interested. Children can design tesselations of the many famous regular polyhedra without serious difficaltis, and print patterns to paste their spherical models. Moscow, tel. 280-53-53, after 21 o'clock, or E-mail, Valentin Vulihman. ",1 "Re: Ancient references to Christianity (was: Albert Sabin) In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >In <1ren9a$94q@morrow.stanford.edu> salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem) >writes: >>In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >>>Why is the NT tossed out as info on Jesus. I realize it is normally tossed >>>out because it contains miracles, but what are the other reasons? >> It is not tossed out as a source, but would it be regarded as >>unbiased and independant? Bruce hits the main point simply -- as Russell Turpin does in more detail in his response. *All* sources are, in modern historiography, to be used critically, which is simply to say that any claims deriving from them are subject to *specific* examination in the light of motives and other HUMAN considerations (as well as the physical background). The critical method applies BOTH to the original document AND to the uses made of it by others (most emphatically *including* the historical researchers themselves.) >wouldn't they be a better ""reporter"" than someone who heard about it second >hand? I guess isn't firsthand better than second hand. I know, there is bias, >and winners writing history, but doesn't the principle of firsthand being best >still apply? But given the critical principle, what evidence is there that we have ANYTHING at ALL from ""firsthand"" sources about Jesus? Paul's letters are indeed firsthand evidence ABOUT PAUL and his interactions. They are, as a result, the most historically solid books in the NT. Paul's claims and descriptions about his conflicts with Jerusalem may not be ""wie es eigent- lich gewesen"" -- but they are most definitely the comments of a participant! In other words, we'd evaluate Paul's statements more or less as we would the testimony of a witness in court. The gospels are another story altogether. Luke is most assuredly NOT a firsthand witness. He *claims* to have gathered material that is closer to the actual events -- but this is a conventional claim in ancient books and Luke in fact NEVER NAMES a witness or points to any one thing in his book(s) which derive from any source *we* can detect behind Luke. John has a concluding remark that it derives from the testimony of a beloved disciple (who is NOT named.) We are not bound to accept this claim (for a long time, some scholars rejected it outright), but even if we do, it makes the fourth gospel as we have it *at best* secondhand. Neither Mark nor Matthew make any claims to be firsthand. Later (much later) Christian tradition associates the first gosple with Matthew and a possible Aramaic proto-gospel, and associates Mark with Peter as having something like the same second-hand status of recounting Peter's preaching of the gospel. Such traditional claims run into difficulties if we try to evaluate the actual data before us. Luke and Matthew both appear to use (differently!) an anonymous and not otherwise attested collection of _logoi_ (words and deeds) of Jesus, as well as to be dependent on Mark. This makes their testimony AT LEAST thirdhand. All that said, historians DO attempt to glean whatever they can from the NT sources, and they are overwhelmingly the obvious and best sources for anything about the earliest Church. They are also *extremely* important for the light they cast (however refracted through Christian biases) on the sectarian world of Judaism just before and around the time of the destruction of the 2nd Temple. The problem of ""the historical Jesus"" is tricky, however. There is a cycle of fashion on this (and we are now near a major ""high"" in people thinking they *can* discern [with historico-critical plausibility] some- thing about Jesus' life and opinions from the NT. The difficulty here (which dominated thinking 50 years ago, and will probably return to favor in another generation :-)) was pointed out by Bultmann, after Schweitzer's treatment at the end of the previous high-point on the cycle -- simply BECAUSE all our sources have passed through AT LEAST one layer of quite anonymous shaping WITHIN the early Church, we have no easy and reliable way to distribute ANY part of the material between ""real"" history and the inventions of the Church. There are few ""radical skeptics"" who think we have nothing of history in the gospels [though such a position can be maintained], but neither have we any tools that can distinguish ""shaping"" of real historical material by its communal use as opposed to ""invention."" -- Michael L. Siemon ""Stand, stand at the window mls@panix.com As the tears scald and start. mls@ulysses.att.com You shall love your crooked neighbor -standard disclaimer- With your crooked heart."" ",19 "Re: Help adding a SCSI Drive A couple of points :- In article <1993Apr22.094851.27323@physchem.ox.ac.uk>, mark@physchem.ox.ac.uk (Mark Jackson) writes: > > In article <1993Apr19.195301.27872@oracle.us.oracle.com>, ebosco@us.oracle.com (Eric Bosco) writes: > > > > 1- Buy a SCSI contoler. Which one? I know Adaptec is good, but they are > > kind of expensive. Are there any good boards in the $100 region? I want > > it to be compatible with OS2 and Unix if possible. Also, I have seen on > > the net that there are SCSI and SCSI2 drives. Is this true? Does the > > adapter need to be the same as the drive? What type of drive is the > > quantum? > > > I have tried others, but I think that the Adaptec is best value for money. I have an Adaptec 1542B and am very happy with it. > > > > 2- connect the drive to the adapter via a SCSI cable and the power cable. > > Do i have to worry about the power supply? I think I have 200 watts and > > all I'm powering are two floppies and the seagate drive. > > > I dont think you can mix the two types of drive, unless you have one of the > SCSI/IDE cards that is available. You will have to turn your IDE off. Not so! I have both IDE and an Adaptec1542B in the same box and can use both disks at the same time, eg. IDE to SCSI disk copy. > > > Well that seems to be all. Is there anythiing I'm forgetting? > > Any help is *really* appreciated, I'm lost... > > > > -Eric > > > > ebosco@us.oracle.com > -- > Mark > ______________________________________________________________________________ > mark@uk.ac.ox.physchem Well, one statement and one correction! Guy -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Dawson - Hoskyns Group Plc. guyd@hoskyns.co.uk Tel Hoskyns UK - 71 251 2128 guyd@austin.ibm.com Tel IBM Austin USA - 512 838 3377 ",3 "Sun 4.1.3, OpenWindows 3.0 problem: static linking and X libraries I build two executables for the same application. Let's call them Papp (uses shared libs) and SPapp (statically linked). The problem is that I get problems when trying to build the *static one*, but not the dynamic one. See the trace below. BTW, the static one runs fine despite the ominous error message. Can someone clue me in as to why the static one bombs at link time? Thanks very much, Sandiway Dr. Sandiway Fong NEC Research Institute Inc. 4 Independence Way Princeton NJ 08540 (609) 951-2733 (609) 951-2482 (FAX) Here is the linking stage... /usr2/quintus/bin3.1.1/sun4-4.1/ld -e start -Bstatic Papp.o \ /usr2/quintus/generic/qplib3.1.1/library/sun4-4/libpl.a \ /usr2/quintus/generic/qplib3.1.1/library/sun4-4/libplm.a \ /usr2/quintus/bin3.1.1/sun4-4.1/libqp.a \ -lsspkg -lXpm -lm -L/usr/local/guide/lib -lguidexv -lxvps -lxview \ -lolgx -lX11 -lXext -lcps -lc -lpixrect -o SPapp Undefined: _XESetCreateGC _XESetFreeFont _XESetCloseDisplay _XESetError _XInitExtension _XESetFreeGC _XESetCopyGC _XESetCreateFont _XESetFlushGC _XESetEventToWire _XESetErrorString _XESetWireToEvent *** Error code 1 make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `SPapp' ldd SPapp SPapp: statically linked The shared lib version is linked in exactly the same way save for the omission of -Bstatic. ldd Papp -lsspkg.1 => /usr/local/lib/libsspkg.so.1.0 -lXpm.2 => /usr/local/lib/libXpm.so.2.7 -lxvps.0 => /usr/openwin/lib/libxvps.so.0.2 -lxview.3 => /usr/openwin/lib/libxview.so.3.1 -lolgx.3 => /usr/openwin/lib/libolgx.so.3.1 -lX11.4 => /usr/openwin/lib/libX11.so.4.3 -lcps.1 => /usr/openwin/lib/libcps.so.1.0 -lc.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1.8 -lpixrect.2 => /usr/lib/libpixrect.so.2.14 -ldl.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1.0 ",5 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr23.201602.12293@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st922957@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes: > >OK, I'VE GOT IT!!!!! > >Let's fight guns with guns. Yeah, that would help. Some wept as they heard Elie Wiesel describe a Jewish woman somewhere in the Carpathian mountains, who read a short newspaper article about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. ""She wondered aloud: 'Why are our Jews in Warsaw behaving like this? Why are they fighting? Couldn't they have waited quietly until the end of the war?' ""Treblinka, Ponar, Belzec, Chelmno, Birkenau; she had never heard of these places. One year later, together with her entire family she was in a cattle-car traveling to the black hole of history named Auschwitz."" At the end of his speech, the writer said, ""She was my mother."" NYT, Friday, April 23, 1993 Also see the photograph of Janet Reno giving a Black Power salute during her testimony before a Senate subcommittee. Is anyone else impressed with the short count of the bodies found in Waco? Have the rest been assumed bodily into heaven? cordially, mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu ""Nous donnons la mort, nous saurons la subir."" ",19 "Marlin fans I was watching the Dodgers/Marlins game yesterday and a couple of things impressed me. First is that the way the sun was shining in Miami, it had a summer atmosphere in early spring for baseball. In comparison Wrigley Field in early April still has a wintry look to it with the dead ivy and bundled up fans. The second and most important was the fans. I like these guys/gals! I will admit I am a football fan first but I still enjoy baseball. It was interesting because most of these fans are only accustomed to the Miami Dolphins. The way they were cheering, I thought it was the AFC playoffs. Of course opening day may have A LOT to do with it, but I really got feeling of electricity that I think is lacking with a lot of baseball fans in other cities. Baseball certainly needs a charge and I hope these two expansion teams bring back some excitement. We'll find out Friday how Denver Bronco fans respond. Phillies are 2-0! (I better say it now before my opportunity passes by) ",9 "Info about Fast Centronics, ECP, EPP Hello, in the EDN magazine I found a note about the new C&T 82C735 I/O Controller. It support several parallel port protocols, including Fast Centronics Microsoft Enhanced Capabilities Protocol (ECP) Enhanced Parallel Port (EPP) The last two handle data rates up to 2Mbytes/sec. Is there any specification about these protocols available? Regards, Christian Franke Aachen University of Technology Informatik I Ahornstrasse 55 W-5100 Aachen Germany Tel.: +49.241.80-21111 E-Mail: franke@informatik.rwth-aachen.de ",3 "Re: Weitek P9000 Future Plans In article <1qttufINN5dr@uniko.uni-koblenz.de> from [19 Apr 1993 10:12:31 GMT] you wrote: |> In article <1993Apr13.000531.25096@jetsun.weitek.COM> robert@weitek.COM (Robert Plamondon) writes: |> >In article <1q0n5pINN60m@uniko.uni-koblenz.de> hodgen@ozzy.uni-koblenz.de (Wayne Hodgen) writes: |> > |> >>To sum up, when an accelerated board with 4MB VRAM (True Colour 1280x1024) |> >>AND A FAST VGA SIDE is available under $500, I will buy one. SuperMac just announced a new line of PC accelerated cards that do 1024x768 in 24bit color. They start at $999 retail. I don't think your wait will be very long. -Rupert ",3 "The 25MHz IIsi So I finally decided to risk this upgrade, FAQ in hand I've gathered the pieces together. The only problem is that I haven't been able to find anyone who's even heard of thermal tape/glue (which is what the FAQ recommends for attaching the heat sink) I am just tempted to use duct tape here.... anyone hae any ideas for me for attaching the heat sink to the processor?? much thanks. tom -therzog@willamette.edu ",4 "Re: PGP 2.2: general comments neuhaus@vier.informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Neuhaus (HiWi Mattern)) writes: >[Lots of stuff.] I hate to follow up to my own posting, but I should perhaps clarify some things so I won't get flamed. First of all, when I'm talking about ``factoring the modulus'' or a ``breakthrough in factoring'', what I really mean is a breakthrough in the cryptanalysis of RSA. I know that factoring and breaking RSA are not proven to be equivalent; it's just so damn convenient not to repeat this every time. I also have to admit that I don't really know if the ``non-group'' property of a cipher is essential only for key chaining. I have thought about it a little while, but I can't find a way that a cryptanalyst could exploit a group structure. That, of course, means nothing at all. Then I wrote, >Please note that as long as it is much harder to factor a RSA modulus >than it is to generate it, the increase in computer speed alone will >keep key lengths and modulus factoring in lock-step, i.e., people will >simply start using longer moduli and still be safe. What I meant was that as long as the only advantage of the cryptanalyst is a faster computer, then we will probably have RSA for a long time to come, because even if 1024-bit moduli somehow could be broken with fast computers (not with a new algorithm), then people would simply use longer moduli. Both users and cryptanalysts benefit from better technology in the same way. Hope this keeps the flames away... Have fun. -- Stephan sig closed for inventory. Please leave your pickaxe outside. PGP 2.2 public key available on request. Note the expiration date. ",11 "Re: Are Americans sexually repressed? In article <15445@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: > kennejs@a.cs.okstate.edu (KENNEDY JAMES SCOT): >> Before: ""David Koresh is a cheap thug who interprets >> the Bible through the barrel of a gun..."" --ATF spokesman >> After: ""[The ATF] is a cheap thug who interprets >> [the Constitution] through the barrel of a gun..."" --Me > Good signature! Yeah, but it needs a few fixups. (I happen to be a stickler for detail.) Before: ""David Koresh is a cheap thug who interprets the Bible through the barrel of a gun..."" --BATF spokesman After: ""The BATF are a bunch of cheap thugs who interpret the Constitution through the barrel of a gun..."" --JSK -- The views expressed herein are | Theodore A. Kaldis my own only. Do you seriously | kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu believe that a major university | {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis as this would hold such views??? | ",18 "Re: ABC coverage Anna Matyas (am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: : Antonio Pera writes: : > I loved the ABC coverage. The production was excellent. The appearance : >was excellent. It had a sleek modern look. This was the first time I heard : >Thorne & Clement & I thought they were great. My only request is to leave : >Al Micheals out of this. He annoys me. : : I was skeptical before the game but was pleasantly surprised at the : coverage. I was particularly impressed by the close range camera coverage : of work in the corners and behind the play without losing a beat getting : back to the puck. Boy - everyone has been ripping on ESPN's hockey coverage (or is it just Pittsburgher's who are thrilled with Lange & Steigy?) For all of you who are unaware -> ESPN bought the air time from ABC and did all the production, advertising sales, commentating, etc -> and even reaped any $ made... Enjoy, Caleb ",10 "Re: What it means to be human? (Was: PARSIFAL) In article <1993Apr16.001326.15820@cs.ucla.edu>, Brad Pierce writes: >... > The bedrock of ""spiritual"" unreason is the belief that resonant, yet but theology is full of reason even if it is, as we believe, based on false premises etc etc. > ill-defined, terms, e.g., ""spirit"", ""transcendental"", ""mind"", ""self"", > ""consciousness"", ""ultimate reality"", ""soul"", ""elan vital"", etc. have > meaning. Sadly, adherents of ""spiritual"" movements are seldom satisfied hold on there: no meaning to ""consciousness"" or ""mind"" or ""self""?! > with this harmless illogicality; they seem inexorably drawn to a belief what illogicality? > in ""the primacy of the spiritual and transcendental over the material > and empirical,"" i.e., the primacy of pipe dreams, jabberwocky and > illusion over facts, science and reason. since when is, for instance, (non-behaviourist) psychology a pipe dream? Surely the major purpose of the science of psychology is to understand the workings of the mind. > All creatures, all feelings, all thoughts, all perceptions, all > processes and all phenomena are manifestations of the mundane, i.e., > matter, energy, space and time. Those who believe otherwise, albeit > some do not supplicate ""God"", are not atheists. ""manifestations of the mundane"" sounds rather transcendental to me. In fact ""matter"", ""energy"", ""space"" and ""time"" are well measured but mysterious concepts. Does an atheist really have to believe in your reductionism or be cast out as not following the true faith?! Richard Wilson Logica Industry Ltd ",0 "Looking for X windows on a PC Hi All, This is the first time I've posted to the net, so I hope this is going to the right people. I'm looking for software packages that run on an IBM PC clone that allows me to display Openlook and motif windows on the PC. The idea is to use the PC as a cheap X windows terminal for use by process Engineers at work. If anyone can E-Mail me any recommended packages/horror stories/etc I would be greatful. Thanks in advance Mark Wilkinson -- _____________________________________________________________________________ / | \ | Mark Wilkinson | E-Mail : wilkinson_m@roborough.gpsemi.com | | Senior Software Engineer | markwilk@lincoln.gpsemi.com | | GEC Plessey Semiconductors | | | Roborough, Plymouth, England | | \_______________________________|_____________________________________________/ ",5 "Re: Suggestions for escrow agencies (was: Re: More technical details) Paul Robichaux (robichau@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov) wrote: : : As a private citizen, I would feel much more ""secure in my person and : papers"" knowing that an organization committed to individual civil : liberties- the ACLU and the NRA come to mind- was safeguarding half of : my key. Both the ACLU and the NRA are resistent to government pressure : by the simple expedient fact that they are not supported, funded, or : overtly controlled by the government. : -------------------------- Thats one problem that has so far been overlooked. These two escrow agencies will have to create a secure database and service the input and output of Keys. Who pays for this? If they refuse an illegal request from some congressman to deliver a key can their budget by cut to punish them? Will congress be forced to fund them forever? The problem is that laws can change. Congress may pass a law setting up an escrow agency with instructions that keys are private. Some future congress may change that law. Suppose pre-nazi Germany had a clipper system. Do you think the escrow agencies would have told Hitler that he could not have the keys without a valid court order? In effect you must set up escrow agencies as a fourth branch of the goverment and isolate them from any outside interferance. They will be able to directly tap into Federal funds with no accountability to anyone except through a court challenge. John Eaton !hp-vcd!johne ",11 "Re: temperature of the dark sky In article <1993Apr28.002214.16544@Princeton.EDU>, richmond@spiff.Princeton.EDU (Stupendous Man) writes: > (Henry Spencer) writes: >> Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own >> recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the >> (night) sky as seen from space? >> > > Henry, if I read you correctly, you may be asking ""If I put a blackbody > in interstellar space ('disregarding the Sun and nearby large warm objects'), > what termperature will it reach in thermal equilibrium with the ambient > radiation field?"" > > If that's the case, let me point out that interstellar dust and > molecules provide many instances of things that are, well, not-too-far > from being blackbodies. Many different observations, including IRAS > and COBE, have determined that interstellar dust grain temperatures > can range from 40K to 150K. Yes, but that's because interstellar grains are very poor radiators, not remotely black bodies. As a consequence they are a lot warmer than the ""ambient"". > Inside the disk of the galaxy, the temperature varies quite a bit > from place to place (how close are you to the nearest OB association, > I would guess). Outside the galaxy, of course, things aren't so > varied. > When I was in graduate school, a long time ago, we used 10,000 deg K with a DILUTION FACTOR of 10+4 for representative values of the radiant energy background in the galaxy due to starlight. Ben ",14 "Icon Box Dear Xperts: I want to place a specific group of icons in an icon box and have my other icons appear outside of the box. Does anyone know if there's a way I can do this?? I'm using X11R5 and Motif 1.2.1. Thanks! dbohdal@jaguar.ess.harris.com ",5 "Re: ESPN f*ck up In article <1428@wavefront.wti.com> matthew@wavefront.wti.com (Matt Coohill) writes: > > ESPN (through a fortunate rainout of a baseball game) showed the > Red Wings/Toronto game... cool. > > But I SWEAR that the advertisements all week long had said that > ESPN would show Pitt/NJ on Tuesday and Bos/Buff on Thursday. > > I raced home from work early (4:30 Pacific) to catch the game, but > ALAS, it was the Boston/Buffalo game and then they promised that they would > show the Pitt/NJ game on Thursday. OVERNIGHT they changed their mind. > What the hell are U talking about? ESPN showed Pens/Devils game as advertised. BUt the morons at ESPN should know that Pens will kick Devils ass and the game will be boring. I'd rather see Boston/Buffalo game which seems to be an exciting series since noone had expected Buffalo to get past the first round. Well let's hope they change their mind on THU's game and show some other game. The Pens series is really getting boring. I want to see some exciting game no matter who wins. If NHL wants a major network contract then they better put some brains in ESPN people. ******************************************************************************* ** ___ ____ ____ ____ ____ ** ** ** / / / /___/ /___/ /___/ ** Experience is what makes a person ** ** /___ /___/ /___/ / \_ / / ** make new mistakes instead of old ** ** ** one. ** ** E-mail: cobra@chopin.udel.edu ** ** ** ** ** ******************************************************************************* ",10 "Wanted: Hypertext (or alike) for Win3.1 In fact, I'm looking for a possibility to connect different peaces of information (like in the windows help system). And no, I don't want to program such a system by myself. The necessary effort and afford should be as small as possible. Thanx in advance, Thomas! ",2 """Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."" gsu0033@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Eric Molas) writes: > Firstly, I am an atheist. I am not posting here as an immature flame > start, but rather to express an opinion to my intended audience. [deleted] > > We are _just_ animals. We need sleep, food, and we reproduce. And we > die. I am glad that I am not an atheist. It seems tragic that some people choose a meaningless existence. How terrible to go on living only because one fears death more than life. I feel so sorry for Eric and yet any attempts to share my joy in life with him would be considered as further evidence of the infectious nature of Christianity. As a Christian I am free to be a human person. I think, love, choose, and create. I will live forever with God. Christ is not a kind of drug. Drugs are a replacement for Christ. Those who have an empty spot in the God-shaped hole in their hearts must do something to ease the pain. This is why the most effective substance-abuse recovery programs involve meeting peoples' spiritual needs. Thank you, Eric for your post. It has helped me to appreciate how much God has blessed me. I hope that you will someday have a more joy-filled and abundant life. Jayne Kulikauskas/jayne@mmalt.guild.org ",15 "AL OPI through first week+ Here is the OPI (Offensive Production Index) for all AL players with at least 10 at bats. It is early in the season so there are some very high numbers. Last years leader was Frank Thomas at 0.682. Teams are denoted by an * as the first character of the name and each player has his team preceeding his name. The equations used are found at the end of the post. Comments and suggestions are welcome. Kevin League OPI: 0.448 League BA: 0.268 League SLG: 0.405 League OBA: 0.341 Rank Player OPI BA SLG OBA ----------------------------------------------------- 1 Tor,carter 2.142 0.583 1.417 0.615 2 Cle,baerga 1.432 0.520 1.040 0.538 3 Det,phillips 1.334 0.565 0.609 0.655 4 Oak,mcgwire 1.147 0.364 0.636 0.632 5 Tor,white 1.065 0.500 0.650 0.545 6 Bal,anderson 0.951 0.423 0.692 0.500 7 NYY,owen 0.934 0.500 0.577 0.567 8 Oak,rhenderson 0.911 0.391 0.565 0.533 9 Mil,thon 0.804 0.476 0.619 0.476 10 Oak,browne 0.800 0.476 0.476 0.522 11 Tex,palmer 0.781 0.333 0.875 0.333 11 Det,gibson 0.781 0.312 0.562 0.500 13 Cle,howard 0.755 0.455 0.727 0.455 14 NYY,tartabull 0.742 0.296 0.667 0.424 15 Tex,rodriguez 0.736 0.429 0.500 0.529 15 Tex,gonzalez 0.736 0.261 0.913 0.292 17 Bos,zupcic 0.728 0.400 0.500 0.455 18 Sea,felder 0.723 0.357 0.429 0.471 19 Oak,blankenship 0.722 0.333 0.333 0.524 20 Min,puckett 0.717 0.280 0.720 0.379 21 NYY,oneill 0.710 0.435 0.609 0.458 22 Cle,belle 0.703 0.348 0.696 0.375 23 Sea,buhner 0.699 0.294 0.471 0.478 24 Mil,hamilton 0.682 0.458 0.458 0.500 25 Det,whitaker 0.680 0.312 0.500 0.421 26 Det,fielder 0.666 0.273 0.591 0.407 27 Tor,sprague 0.649 0.300 0.750 0.300 28 Whi,cora 0.646 0.350 0.500 0.458 29 Whi,raines 0.641 0.250 0.750 0.308 30 NYY,kelly 0.625 0.348 0.565 0.375 31 Bos,quintana 0.617 0.455 0.455 0.455 32 Sea,tmartinez 0.612 0.211 0.632 0.348 32 Cal,gonzales 0.612 0.250 0.250 0.478 34 Whi,burks 0.609 0.348 0.565 0.375 35 Cal,snow 0.602 0.368 0.526 0.400 36 Whi,karkovice 0.598 0.167 0.417 0.412 37 *Cleveland 0.595 0.340 0.549 0.377 38 Cle,sorrento 0.594 0.273 0.727 0.273 39 Sea,amaral 0.587 0.368 0.579 0.429 39 Bos,cooper 0.587 0.375 0.458 0.423 41 Min,winfield 0.578 0.292 0.667 0.292 42 Cal,curtis 0.571 0.333 0.381 0.417 43 Bos,mvaughn 0.566 0.316 0.526 0.350 44 Oak,steinbach 0.556 0.333 0.542 0.385 45 *Oakland 0.555 0.298 0.439 0.406 46 NYY,maas 0.547 0.333 0.389 0.429 47 Kan,joyner 0.546 0.300 0.400 0.417 48 Min,knoblauch 0.535 0.304 0.348 0.448 49 Bos,greenwell 0.534 0.261 0.478 0.370 50 Oak,brosius 0.532 0.273 0.545 0.333 51 Tor,olerud 0.530 0.333 0.400 0.412 52 Bal,mercedes 0.529 0.286 0.429 0.412 53 *NYYankees 0.527 0.321 0.468 0.377 54 Bal,hoiles 0.525 0.263 0.526 0.333 55 Mil,kmak 0.523 0.286 0.286 0.412 56 Oak,dhenderson 0.517 0.231 0.462 0.412 57 Cle,lofton 0.515 0.346 0.385 0.370 58 Min,larkin 0.514 0.357 0.500 0.400 59 Bos,dawson 0.504 0.333 0.458 0.360 60 Cle,camartinez 0.503 0.333 0.389 0.400 61 Det,gladden 0.498 0.312 0.500 0.312 62 Cal,polonia 0.494 0.292 0.500 0.320 63 *California 0.487 0.295 0.404 0.364 64 *Detroit 0.484 0.260 0.410 0.357 65 Det,tettleton 0.475 0.211 0.421 0.348 66 Cal,disarcina 0.473 0.304 0.478 0.304 67 Cal,easley 0.472 0.304 0.435 0.333 68 Bal,baines 0.470 0.300 0.400 0.364 69 Tex,franco 0.469 0.300 0.350 0.391 70 Whi,ljohnson 0.464 0.280 0.400 0.333 71 Sea,vizquel 0.463 0.222 0.222 0.417 72 NYY,bwilliams 0.461 0.294 0.471 0.314 73 Mil,gvaughn 0.460 0.222 0.389 0.391 74 Min,hrbek 0.458 0.240 0.360 0.367 75 Bal,cripken 0.451 0.333 0.407 0.379 75 *Seattle 0.451 0.237 0.367 0.361 77 Cal,salmon 0.448 0.267 0.267 0.450 78 Kan,mcreynolds 0.447 0.182 0.500 0.280 79 *Toronto 0.443 0.261 0.430 0.318 79 *Texas 0.443 0.237 0.489 0.289 81 Min,pagliarulo 0.439 0.286 0.429 0.333 82 *WhiteSox 0.432 0.243 0.378 0.336 83 Kan,hiatt 0.431 0.278 0.500 0.316 84 Whi,guillen 0.426 0.263 0.263 0.364 85 Whi,thomas 0.419 0.259 0.333 0.355 86 Kan,mcrae 0.414 0.296 0.333 0.345 87 *Boston 0.411 0.270 0.365 0.336 88 Cle,hill 0.410 0.300 0.500 0.300 89 NYY,mattingly 0.400 0.324 0.353 0.343 90 *Baltimore 0.394 0.251 0.361 0.315 91 Bal,gomez 0.382 0.316 0.316 0.350 91 *Minnesota 0.382 0.237 0.379 0.298 93 Whi,fisk 0.381 0.273 0.545 0.273 94 Cle,jefferson 0.379 0.263 0.316 0.333 95 Oak,neel 0.370 0.188 0.500 0.188 96 Cal,cdavis 0.369 0.211 0.421 0.250 97 Bos,fletcher 0.364 0.217 0.391 0.280 98 *Milwaukee 0.361 0.257 0.293 0.333 99 Det,livingstone 0.360 0.250 0.438 0.294 100 Tor,ralomar 0.354 0.263 0.316 0.333 101 *KansasCity 0.343 0.236 0.327 0.291 102 Oak,bordick 0.339 0.200 0.250 0.304 103 Tex,canseco 0.337 0.190 0.381 0.261 104 Sea,valle 0.336 0.250 0.312 0.294 105 Bal,devereaux 0.329 0.207 0.379 0.233 106 Kan,lind 0.323 0.188 0.438 0.188 107 Mil,surhoff 0.312 0.227 0.273 0.292 107 Kan,brett 0.312 0.259 0.296 0.286 109 Whi,bell 0.310 0.207 0.310 0.258 110 Cle,salomar 0.306 0.200 0.200 0.304 111 Mil,jaha 0.304 0.267 0.267 0.353 111 Det,fryman 0.304 0.185 0.296 0.214 113 NYY,boggs 0.296 0.200 0.233 0.294 114 Tex,bripken 0.290 0.250 0.333 0.308 115 Min,mack 0.289 0.233 0.333 0.258 116 Min,harper 0.288 0.280 0.280 0.280 117 Cle,fermin 0.284 0.200 0.200 0.304 118 Bos,rivera 0.276 0.118 0.176 0.286 119 Mil,spiers 0.275 0.231 0.231 0.286 120 Mil,yount 0.268 0.208 0.208 0.269 121 Tor,schofield 0.265 0.133 0.267 0.235 121 Tex,hulse 0.265 0.154 0.308 0.214 123 Sea,griffey 0.261 0.105 0.263 0.261 124 Sea,obrien 0.259 0.100 0.100 0.308 124 Kan,macfarlane 0.259 0.273 0.273 0.333 126 Oak,sierra 0.256 0.200 0.240 0.231 127 Kan,jose 0.254 0.167 0.167 0.286 128 Bos,hatcher 0.252 0.188 0.188 0.278 129 Sea,blowers 0.251 0.200 0.200 0.273 130 Whi,ventura 0.247 0.167 0.167 0.310 130 Tex,palmeiro 0.247 0.130 0.261 0.167 132 Bal,reynolds 0.227 0.118 0.118 0.250 133 Kan,mayne 0.222 0.231 0.231 0.231 133 Cal,myers 0.222 0.231 0.231 0.231 135 NYY,nokes 0.219 0.150 0.300 0.150 136 Bos,calderon 0.209 0.167 0.167 0.286 137 Bos,pena 0.207 0.267 0.267 0.267 138 Tor,molitor 0.194 0.150 0.200 0.190 139 Det,deer 0.182 0.125 0.167 0.192 140 Det,cuyler 0.179 0.077 0.154 0.143 141 Tor,borders 0.159 0.111 0.167 0.158 142 Whi,grebeck 0.141 0.100 0.100 0.182 143 Bal,gdavis 0.137 0.111 0.148 0.143 144 Tex,dascenzo 0.128 0.091 0.182 0.091 145 Min,leius 0.115 0.083 0.083 0.154 145 Mil,reimer 0.115 0.083 0.083 0.154 147 Tor,djackson 0.114 0.133 0.133 0.133 148 Tex,gill 0.070 0.059 0.059 0.158 149 Kan,gagne 0.042 0.095 0.095 0.095 0.74*1B + 1.28*2B + 1.64*3B + 2.25*HR + 0.53*BB + 0.34*(SB-2*CS) OPI = ---------------------------------------------------------------- AB - H BA = H / AB SLG = (H + 2B + 2*3B + 3*HR) / AB OBA = (H + BB) / (AB + BB) -- Jet Propulsion Laboratory | schmke@cco.caltech.edu 4800 Oak Grove Dr. | schmidt@spc5.jpl.nasa.gov M/S 525-3684 | Pasadena, CA 91109 | ",9 "Re: What RIGHT ? In article <1993Apr22.133142.23772@ifi.uio.no>, joakimr@ifi.uio.no (Joakim Ruud) writes: |> |> Recently, I've asked myself a rather interesting question: What RIGHT does |> god have on our lives (always assuming there is a god, of course...!) ?? |> He is God. |> In his infinite wisdom, he made it perfectly clear that if we don't live |> according to his rules, we will burn in hell. Well, with what RIGHT can god |> make that desicion? He is God. |> Let's say, for the sake of argument, that god creates every |> one of us (directly or indirectly, it doesn't matter.). What then happens, is |> that he first creates us, and then turns us lose. Well, I didn't ask to be |> created. |> God granted you the gift of life whether you were sinner or saint. |> Let's make an analogue. If a scientist creates a unique living creature (which |> has happened, it was even patented...!!!), does he then have the right to |> expect it to behave in a certain matter, or die...? |> The scientist creates the living creature to examine it, poke and prod it and learn about its behaviour. He will kill it if it becomes a threat. For example, let's say the scientist creates a Tyrannosaurus Rex and it breaks free of its confines and starts devouring the population. The scientist would not hesitate in killing it. God creates us to be His loving companions. He knows whether we are true in our love for Him or not. And He lets us know the consequences of rejecting Him. God cannot abide by sin. By rejecting God, a person becomes an enemy of God, one that must be killed by Him. Note: I say that God and God alone is worthy to be Judge, Jury and Executioner. We are not called to carry out such duties because we are not worthy. |> Who is god to impose its rules on us ? Who can tell if god is REALLY so |> righteous as god likes us to believe? Are all christians a flock of sheep, |> unable to do otherwise that follow the rest? |> God is God. Who are we to question the Creator? If you doubt God's doing in certain situations, do you claim to know a better solution? Would you be playing the role of God? |> Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. |> |> I just want to point out that this is not sarcasm, I mean it. |> |> How should one deal with a man who is convinced that |> he is acting according to God's will, and who there- |> Jokke fore believes that he is doing you a favour by |> stabbing you in the back? |> |> -Voltaire |> ",19 "Re: some thoughts. In article , healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) writes: [deletia wrt pathetic Jee-zus posting by Bissel] > I hope you're not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you' > ve given me. NO. He hasn't extended to US the courtesy you've shown us, so he don't get no pie. Tammy, I respect your beliefs because you don't try to stamp them into my being. I have scorn for posters whose sole purpose appears to be to evangelize. > > Tammy ",0 "Re: christians and aids In article marka@travis.csd.harris.com (Mark Ashley) writes: >In article kevin@pictel.pictel.com (Kevin Davis) writes: >>Many Christians believe in abstinence, but in a moment will be overcome >>by desire. We all compromise and rationalize poor choices (sin). Last >>week I was guilty of anger, jealousy, and whole mess of other stuff, >>yet I am forgiven and not condemned to suffer with AIDs. To even >>suggest that AIDS is ""deserved"" is ludicrous. > >When man was told not to have sex with relatives, did they listen ? >NO! And man found out why ! So what's your point? Mark's comment still is valid. To suggest that AIDS is ""deserved"" IS ludicrous. I sin. I can resolve to abstain from sin, and do weekly (more often, actually). Yet I routinely fail. I surely do deserve what I get, yet God compassionately provided the Incarnate Logos, Jesus, as a rememdy and a way out of our situation. If AIDS is deserved, I surely deserve instant death just as much, as do we all, as St. Paul so cogently remids us. To willingly judge ""others"" as deserving punishment seems to me to be the height of arrogance and lack of humility. >I wonder if AIDS would be a problem now if people didn't get >involved in deviant sexual behaviour. Certainly, people who >received tainted blood are not to blame. But it just goes >to show that all mankind is affected by the actions of a few. So what's the point here? I can get AIDS and NEVER engage in ""deviant"" sexual behavior. In fact, I could engage in LOTS of deviant sexual behavior with HIV+ people and never be infected. AIDS is a consequence of particular behaviors, many of which are not sexual. And not all sexual behaviors carry the risk of transmission. >In addition, IMHO forgiveness is not the end of things. >There is still the matter of atonement. Is it AIDS ? >I don't know. The end of all things is to know, love and serve God, growing daily closer through prayer, meditation and discipline. Even so I could get AIDS. Anyone could, unless they remain forever celibate, IV-drug-free, and transfusion free. Larry Overacker (llo@shell.com) -- ------- Lawrence Overacker Shell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965 llo@shell.com ",15 "Re: Who was or what is MIATA, as used in the Mazda Miata? Sayeth sjwyrick@lbl.gov (Steve Wyrick): $Anybody keeping track of how many of these there are? So far I have $Miata, Tredia, Previa, Sentra, Maxima, Altima, Camry, and Justy, not to $mention Lexus, Acura and Infiniti! You're apparently including names that are, or appear to be, derivatives of real words in English or some other language (e.g. Acura, Infiniti, Maxima, Altima), in which case you missed ones such as Integra, Supra, Allante', Capri and Calibra. In Canada, add Serenia and Precidia. If you count misspellings, add Protege and (in Canada) Vigor. How about the forthcoming Mondeo, if it is given that name in North America? Others might include Celica, Corolla, Paseo, and Tercel. In Canada, add Asu""na. -- |I know that sometimes my jaw clicks when I eat. Void where prohibited.| |Have you seen this boy? Lust never sleeps. I say hurl. Honey, I'm | |home. _________________________________________________________________| |_____/ silver@bokonon.UUCP ...!{uunet|becker|xrtll}!bokonon!silver | ",7 "Re: Camera work on televised games In article <1993Apr22.105352.18235@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> yecx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >Is it just me or is the camera work on some of these games really sad?? I >can't remember how many times during the Penguins-Devils game they showed some >guy (without the puck) being checked in the corner while the puck was being >fired on goal. In fact, I think they even missed one goal completely because >they were showing two guys holding each other in the corner. > >Now the last time I watched a football game, they didn't show the lineman going >at it while the running back turned the corner for a touchdown . . . . > >Is it just me?? > >Greg > ESPN has been trying various things to get away from the follow-the-puck concept of televising hockey games. One of the main problems with hockey is that it is very difficult to show everything that is going on -- more happens away from the puck than in any other sport except maybe football and they can do iso's on football players to be shown between plays. The problem of course is that sometimes you get something worthwhile, other times you get burned. -Tom Galvin galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil ",10 "House for Sale, Mediterranean Coast Spain Mediterranean Investment property for Sale ------------------------------------------ Javea, Alicante Spain (Costa Blanca) Villa on a large lot in the wooded (pine) hills ""above the noise"". 2 bedrooms, living-dining room + glassed-in sun-porch; kitchen & bathroom. Large lot surrounded by traditional white wall with wrought iron gates: room for an in-ground pool. 2 minutes from the sea and supermarket; 10 minutes from town and full amenities. Area has specially favourable microclimate, mentioned in a WHO climate report. Seat (Fiat) runabout Car, 3 years old may be included, in the deal. Ideal for retirement or as a family holiday resort. Must sell for family reasons. Asking $150,000. Reply by EMAIL or call Canada (613)591-0507 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Curry, Executive Director Tele: (613)991-9001 The Royal Society of Canada Fax: (613)991-6996 PO Box 9734, Ottawa K1G 5J4 Email: curry@doe.carleton.ca -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Curry Tele: (613)991-9001 The Royal Society of Canada Fax: (613)991-6996 PO Box 9734, Ottawa K1G 5J4 Email: curry@doe.carleton.ca ",6 "Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics In article timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) writes: >From: timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) >Subject: Amusing atheists and agnostics >Date: 18 Apr 93 23:17:25 GMT [some big deletions] > >Many atheists show a poor understanding of human nature, so many ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >people who would otherwise sympathize with their cause only shake their >heads in disbelief at such childish ranting. Another in a string of idiotic generalizations. Gad, I'm surprised I got this far down in the post. I guess some just like seeing their names up on a CRT. Like me :-) Phil Trodwell *** This space ***| ""I'd be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle *** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not *** (cheap) ***| this radio!"" -Hunter S. Thompson ",0 "512K VRAM for Sale- LC or LCII I have a 512k VRAM chip for sale. Worked fine in my LCII and will give 256 colors on 640 x 480 size screen. Asking $50. I'll cover postage. Speaking of which, does anyone know what the best way to send a chip is. I have a plastic antistatic sleeve, but what's the best way to send it? In an envelope? First class? All info appreciated. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bill ""Spaceman"" Lee P.O. Box 532, Yale Station New Haven, CT 06520-0532 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",4 "MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY [With Frank's permission, I have added some information here (and in one case changed the order of his contributions) in order to clarify the historical relationship of the views. My comments are based primarily on William Rusch's historical summary in ""The Trinitarian Controversy"", Fortress. I'm going to save this as an FAQ. --clh] MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY [SECOND CENTURY The writers of the 2nd Cent. are important, because they set up much of the context for the later discussions. Justin Martyr, Aristides, Athenagoras, Tatian, and Theophilus of Antioch are known as the ""Apologists"". Their theology has often been described as ""Logos theology"". Based strongly on wording in John, they took more or less a two-phase approach. Through eternity, the Logos was with the Father, as his mind or thought. This ""immanent Word"" became ""expressed"" as God revealed himself in history, ultimately in Jesus. Thus Jesus' full distinction from the Father only became visible in history, though the Logos had been present in God from eternity. Rusch regards this view is containing many of the emphases of the final orthodox position, but in a form which is less sophisticated, because it did not have the technical language to properly deal with the eternal plurality in the Godhead. Irenaeus held views somewhat similar to the Apologists. However he was uncomfortable with the two-stage approach. He still viewed God as one personage, with distinctions that did not become fully visible except through his process of self-revelation (the ""economy""). The distinctions are present in his essential nature. Irenaeus emphasized the Holy Spirit more than the Apologists. Irenaeus' views should probably be called ""economic trinitarianism"", though that term is normally used (as below) to refer to later developments. THIRD CENTURY --clh] Dynamic Monarchianism Source: Theodotus Adherents: Paul of Samosota, Artemon, Socinus, Modern Unitarians Perception of God's Essence: The unity of God denotes both oneness of nature and oneness of person. The Son and the Holy Spirit therefore are consubstantial with the Father's divine essence only as impersonal attributes. The divine dunamis came upon the man Jesus, but he was not God in the strict sense of the word. Perception of God's Subsistence: The notion of a subsistent God is a palpable impossibility, since his perfect unity is perfectly indivisible. The 'diversity' of God is apparent and not real, since the Christ event and the work of the Holy Spirit attest only to a dynamic operation within God, not to a hypostatic union. Asignation of Deity/Eternality: Father: Unique originator of the universe. He is eternal, self-existent, and without beginning or end. Son: A virtuous (but finite) man in whose life God was dynamically present in a unique way; Christ definitely was not deity though his humanity was deified. Holy Spirit: An impersonal attribute of the Godhead. No deity or eternality is ascribed to the Holy Spirit. Criticism(s): Elevates reason above the witness of biblical revelation concerning the Trinity. Categorically denies the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit, thereby undermining the theological undergirding for the biblical doctrine of salvation. [In summary, this probably best thought of as not being Trinitarianism at all. God is an undifferentiated one. Son and Holy Spirit are seen as simply names for the man Jesus and the grace of God active in the Church. --clh] Modalistic Monarchianism Source: Praxeas Adherents: Noatus, Sabellius, Swedenborg, Scleiermacher, United Pentecostals (Jesus Only) Perception of God's Essence: The unity of God is ultra-simplex. He is qualitatively characterized in his essence by one nature and person. This essence may be designated interchangeably as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are different names for but identical with the unified, simplex God. The three names are the three modes by which God reveals Himself. Perception of God's Subsistence: The concept of a subsistent God is erroneous and confounds the real issue of the phenomenon of God's modalistic manifesting of himself. The paradox of a subsisting ""three in oneness"" is refuted by recognizing that God is not three persons but one person with three different names and corresponding roles following one another like parts of a drama. Asignation of Deity/Eternality: Father: Fully God and fully eternal as the primal mode or manifestation of the only unique and unitary God Son: Full deity/eternality ascribed only in the sense of his being another mode of the one God and identical with his essence. he is the same God manifested in temporal sequence specific to a role (incarnation). Holy Spirit: Eternal God only as the tile designates the phase in which the one God, in temporal sequence, manifested himself pursuant to the role of regeneration and sanctification. Criticism(s): Depersonalizes the Godhead. To compensate for its Trinitarian deficiencies, this view propounds ideas that are clearly heretical. Its concept of successive manifestations of the Godhead cannot account for such simultaneous appearances of the three persons as at Christ's baptism. [Rusch comments that evidence on these beliefs is sketchy. There are actually two slightly different groups included: Noetus and his followers, and Sabellius. Noetus was apparently more extreme. Sabellius followed him, and attempted to use some features of economic Trinitarianism to create a more sophisticated view. Unfortunately, information about Sabellius comes from a century later, and there seems to be some confusion between him and Marcellus of Ancyra. --clh] [I've moved the following description to be with the other third-century views. It originally appeared near the end. --clh] ""Economic"" Trinitarianism Source: Hippolytus, Tertullian Adherents: Various ""neo-economic"" Trinitarians Perception of God's Essence: The Godhead is characterized by triunity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the three manifestations of one identical, indivisible substance. The perfect unity and consubstantiality are especially comprehended in such manifest Triadic deeds as creation and redemption. Perception of God's Subsistence: Subsistence within the Godhead is articulated by means of such terms as ""distinction"" and ""distribution"" dispelling effectively the notion of separateness or division. Asignation of Deity/Eternality: The equal deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is clearly elucidated in observation of the simultaneous relational/operational features of the Godhead. Co-eternality, at times, does not intelligibly surface in this ambiguous view, but it seems to be a logical implication. Criticism(s): Is more tentative and ambiguous in its treatment of the relational aspect of the Trinity. [Note that this is a development of the Apologists and Irenaeus, as mentioned above. As with them, the threeness is visible primarily in the various ways that God revealed himself in history. However they did say that this is a manifestation of a plurality that is somehow present in the Godhead from the beginning. Tertullian talks of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as being three that are one in substance. Many people regard this view as being essentially orthodox, but with less developed philosophical categories. --clh] [Origen, developing further an approach started by Clement, attempted to apply neo-Platonism to Christian thought. He set many of the terms of the coming battle. In Platonic fashion, he sees the Son as a mediator, mediating between the absolute One of God and the plurality of creating beings. The Son is generated, but he is ""eternally generated"". That is, the relationship between Father and Son is eternal. It cannot be said that ""there was once when he was not"" (a phrase that will haunt the discussion for centuries). Having the Son is intrinsic to his concept of God. The Father and Son are described as separate ""hypostases"", though this may not have quite the meaning of separate subsistence that it had in some contexts. The union is one of love and action, but there is some reason to think that he may have used the term homoousios (""of the same substance""). The Holy Spirit is also an active, personal substance, originated by the Father through the Son. Origen's intent is trinitarian, not tritheistic, but he pushes things in the direction of separateness. FOURTH CENTURY --clh] Subordinationism [often called Arianism --clh] Source: Arius Major Adherents: Modern Jehovah's Witnesses, and several other lesser known cults Perception of God's Essence: The inherent oneness of God's nature is properly identifiable with the Father only. The Son and the Holy Spirit are discreet entities who do not share the divine essence. Perception of God's Subsistence: The unipersonal essence of God precludes the concept of divine subsistence with a Godhead. ""Threeness in oneness"" is self- contradictory and violates biblical principles of a monotheistic God. Asignation of Deity/Eternality: Father: The only one, unbegotten God who is eternal and without beginning. Son: A created being and therefore not eternal. Though he is to be venerated, he is not of the divine essence. Holy Spirit: A nonpersonal, noneternal emanation of the Father. He is viewed as an influence, an expression of God. Deity is not ascribed to him. Criticism(s): It is at variance with abundant scriptural testimony respecting the deity of both Christ and the Holy Spirit. Its hierarchial concept likewise asserts three essentially separate persons with regard to the Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. This results in a totally confused soteriology. [Note also that in most versions of this view, the Son is not fully human either. He is supernatural and sinless. That distinguishes this view from adoptionism. --clh] Orthodox Trinitarianism Source: Athanasius Adherents: Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianzus, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Contemporary orthodox Christianity Perception of God's Essence: God's being is perfectly unified and simplex: of one essence. This essence of deity is held in common by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The three persons are consubstantial, coinherent, co-equal, and co- eternal. Perception of God's Subsistence: The divine subsistence is said to occur in three modes of being or hypostases. As such, the Godhead exists ""undivided in divided persons."" This view contemplates an identity in nature and cooperation in function without the denial of distinctions of persons in the Godhead. Asignation of Deity/Eternality: In its final distillation, this view unhesitatingly sets forth Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as co-equal and co-eternal in the Godhead with regard to both the divine essence and function. Criticism(s): The only shortcoming has to do with the limitations inherent in human language and thought itself: the impossibility of totally describing the ineffable mystery of ""three in oneness."" [At least in the 4th Cent, there were several different approaches, all of which fit the description here, and all regarded as orthodox, but which are somewhat different in detail. Nicea was originally held to respond to Arius. Arius can be thought of as carrying Origen's thought a bit too far, to the point of making the Son a separate entity. In general the East tended to take an approach based on Origen's, and it was hard to get acceptance of Nicea in the East. Its final acceptance was based on the work of Athanasius with the Cappadocians: Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory of Nazianzus, among others. While starting with three, they show that their unity in nature and and action is such that one must think of them as being a single God. This allowed the Council of Constantinople, in 381, to get wide agreement on the idea of three hypostatese and one ousia. --clh] Adapted from _Charts of Christian Theology and Doctrine_, by H. Wayne House. Frank -- ""If one wished to contend with Him, he could not answer Him one time out of a thousand."" JOB 9:3 ",15 "Re: NUTEK FACES APPLE'S WRATH (article!!!!!!) READ In article davea@xetron.com (David P. Alverson) writes: >I believe Apple has a patent on the region features of QuickDraw. A mac >clone would have to implement regions. This is why Apple's comment was >that >they believe it is not possible to make a Mac clone without infringing >on their patents. They may have other patents like this. Apple has patented their implementation of regions, which presumably includes the internal data structure (which has never been officially documented by Apple). Apple cannot patent the concept of a region. I'm guessing that either NuTek reverse-engineered Apple's internal data structure for regions (I dunno if this would hold up in court), or they came up with their own data structure. If it's the latter, then they won't be able to draw PICT files containing regions. Besides PICT files, there aren't many places where regions are stored on disk. (QuickTime movies, perhaps?) As long as the region isn't being stored on disk and transferred from a Mac to a NuTek clone (or vice versa), it doesn't matter if NuTek uses a completely different internal data structure. I remember reading that Apple also has a patent on their ADB hardware, and that the NuTek clones would therefore be lacking an ADB port. What other patents does Apple have on the Mac? -- Joe Schwartz E-mail: xor@acm.rpi.edu or xor@clotho.acm.rpi.edu MapInfo Corp. 200 Broadway These are my own opinions. Any similarity to the Troy, NY 12180 opinions of MapInfo Corporation is purely coincidental. ",4 "Interesting conversion Problem I have a very large (3x5 feet) file in Macintosh Canvas v2.something which I need to import into AutoCad 12 in the least disk-space intensive way possible. (i.e. EPS is a big problem, since it took 1.3 MEG to encode one page of the document) The file is entirely lines and words. I have access to networked Macs & PC's, and ftp. Can anyone suggest how this might be accomplished? Email replies, if you would, I don't read this group much. Thanks in advance. -- Daniel Alt Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH (Help me!) I don't HAVE ulcers. I'm a carrier. | I can't see you, so don't pretend to be I don't like spreading rumors, but what else can you do with them? | there I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I preach to. ",1 "Re: solvent for duck tape adhesive If you want to try a non-toxic solvent, there's one made of citrus that works very well and doesn't take your skin off in the process. One brand name I've used is Citra-Solve, but there are others too. ",12 "WI and IL firearms law Questions A couple of questions for you firearms law experts out there: Question #1 According to the NRA/ILA state firearms lawbook, in Wisconsin it is 'unlawful for any person except a peace officer to go armed* with a ""concealed and dangerous weapon."" There is no statutory provision for obtaining a lixense or permit to carry a concealed weapon.' * Jury instructions indicate that 'to go armed' one must have a firearm on one's person or within his immediate control and available for use. Does this mean that open carry is allowed? If so, just how 'open' does it have to be? Would an in the pants holster be considered concealing? What if one had their jacket on and it partially covered the weapon? Also, is there any way to be allowed to carry concealed, or is it just not allowed, period? Question #2 As I understand it, in Evanston, IL, they have a ordinance banning handguns. Is there any way to get around this provision? What would the penalty if you were found out be? What if you used said handgun in a defensive shooting in your apartment there? How would the city law apply to your impending trial for the shooting? Also, what is IL state law concerning short barreled weapons? Short barreled shotgun is what I would be interested in if a handgun were not available, either that or a shortened 9mm carbine (ie Colt, Marlin). One more thing, what is the chance of getting a CCW permit in IL without being rich or famous or related to the mayor? Please send replies via E-Mail, as things seem to be piling up around t.p.g a little faster than I can handle. Thanks again ------- Steve Syck syck5280@miller.cs.uwm.edu -------- ",16 "Jews/Islam Dr. Frankenstien I have found Jewish people very imagentative and creative. Jewish religion was the foundation for Christianity and Islam. In other words Judaism has fathered both religions. Now Islam has turned against its father I may say. It is Ironic that after communizem threat is almost gone, religion wars are going to be on the raise. I thought the idea of believing on one God, was to Unite all man kind. How come both Jews and Islam which believe on the same God, ""the God of Ebrahim"" are killing each other? Is this like Dr. Frankenstien's story? How are you going to stop this from happening? How are you going to deal with so many Muslims. Nuking them would distroy the whole world? Would God get mad, since you have killed his followers, you believe on the same God, same heaven and the same hell after all? What is the peacefull way of ending this Saga? Man kind needs religion, since it sets up the rules and the regulations which keeps the society in a healthy state. A religion is mostly a sets of rules which people have experienced and know it works for the society. The praying, keeps the sole healthy and meditates it. God does not care for man kinds pray, but man kind hopes that God will help him when he prays. Religion works mostly on the moral issues and trys to put away the materialistic things in the life. But the religious leaders need to make a living through religion? So they may corrupt it, or turn it to their own way to make their living. i.e Muslims have to pay %20 percent of their income to the Mullahs. I guess the rabie gets his cut too! Is in it that religion should be such that everybody on planet earth respects each other, be good toward each other helps one another, respect the mother nature. Is in that heaven and hell are created on earth through the acts that we take today? Is in it that within every man there is good and bad, he could choose either one, then he will see the outcome of his choice. How can we prevent man kind from going crazy over religion. How can we stop another religious killing field, under poor Gods name? What are your thoughts? Do you think man kind would to come its senses, before it is too late? P.S. on the side Do you think that Moses saw the God on mount Sina? Why would God go to top of the mountain? He created the earth, he could have been anywhere? why on top the mountain? Was it because people thought to see God you have to reach to the skies/heavens? Why God kept coming back to Middle East? Was it because they created God through their imagination? Is that why Jewish people were told by God, they were the chosen ones? Profit Mohammad was married to Khadijeh. She was a Jewish. She taught him how to trade. She probably taught him about Judaism. Quran is mostly copy right of Taurah (sp? old testement). Do you think God wrote Quran? Makeh was a trade city before Islam. Do you think it was made to be the center of Islamic world because Mohammad wanted to expand his trade business? Is that why God has put his house in there? I think this religious stuff has gone too far. All man kind are going to hurt from it if they do not wise up. Look at David Koresh, how that turned out? I am afraid in the bigger scale, the Jews and the Muslims will have the same ending!!!!!!!! Religion is needed in the sense to keep people in harmony and keep them doing good things, rather than plotting each others distruction. There is one earth, One life and one God. Let's all man kind be good toward each other. God help us all. Peace ",17 "Re: Kind, loving, merciful and forgiving GOD! m23364@mwunix.mitre.org (James Meritt) writes: >}(4) So the fact that Stephen did not reply to A does not justify the >} conclusion that Stephen condoned taking quotes out of context in A >Excellent. Now under what conditions could such a conclusion be made, other >than a direct assertion by his part. Replace ""Stephen"" with ""David Joslin,"" since you directed the same accusation of hypocrisy at me. In e-mail to me you wrote: In t.r.m. Robert Weiss writes [a promise from Psalm 9:10] Gee, since you wouldn't be at all hypocritical, you must be really busy arguing against these out-of-context extracted translations! As you may recall, you mailed me six mail messages quoting articles by Robert Weiss, all sent within a few minutes of each other. You added: Naturally, I await your arguments against this out-of-context translation. But I shall not await holding my breath... and Wonder when you get to sleep, disputing all these out-of-context extracted translations! and other similar comments. Perhaps you could explain why you ever thought that I might have a reason to read all of these articles you pulled off of t.r.m, much less write responses to them? >Have you, by chance, ever even heard of inductive logic? You are not >demonstrating any familiarly with it (i.e. you are being insufficiently >logical). I am familiar with inductive logic. Go ahead and give me the details of the ""logic"" that led you to conclude, incorrectly, that I would condone Robert Weiss taking verses out of context. Your conclusion was wrong, of course, since I agree that both you and Robert Weiss were guity of taking verses out of context. Nothing hypocritical about that, is there? Since you reached a false conclusion, you made some mistake in your ""logic."" The only question is where. Did you think that it would be hypocritical for me not to post a reply to Robert Weiss' articles? Did you make the common creationist error of confusing a lack of evidence for X with evidence for the lack of X? Is your grasp of inductive logic not quite as firm as you think? See if you can figure out what your mistake was, and learn from it. dj ",19 "Re: Remember those names come election time. I said: In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > > Besides, there's no case that can be made for US military involvement > there that doesn't apply equally well to, say, Liberia, Angola, or > (it appears with the Khmer Rouge's new campaign) Cambodia. Non-whites > don't count? Hmm...some might say Kuwaitis are non-white. Ooops, I forgot, Kuwaitis are ""oil rich"", ""loaded with petro-dollars"", etc so they don't count. ...and let's not forget Somalia, which is about as far from white as it gets. That's two in a row, care to try for more? ",17 "Re: Religious wars In article , fraseraj@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Andrew J Fraser) writes: > ""Well you know that religion has caused more wars than > anything else"" > It bothers me that I cannot seem to find a satisfactory > response to this. After all if our religion is all about > peace and love why have there been so many religious wars? Of course if this question was asked in a group dealing with economics, the answer would be that the cause of war was economic. My observations over the past 30 years (and not withstanding a little history reading beside) is that while religious differences do play a part in many of the conflicts, so does (unfortunately) race, economics and any other items that identify one group of men as being different from another. If we want to couch the cause of conflict in Christian terms, I would put it while Christ died for our sins, we are yet sinners. While some individuals assume ""Christlike"" natures, most of us do not even come close. I realize that in many ways this is a trite answer, but I guess that it is my way of rationalizing man's constant (or so it seems) conflict. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Kemp (Somtime Consultant) Internet: kempja@rcwusr.bp.com kemp_ja@tnd001.dnet.bp.com ",15 "Re: The Holocaust Revisited mcsdc1jpb@dct.ac.uk (John Bell) babbles from Scotland, one of England's last remaining colonies: >Are you for real? >People dumb enough to give their money and possessions to a guy who says he's >jesus deserve all they get People who were dumb enough to believe Klinton was a moderate deserve what they get too. It's a real laugh to hear them try to justify this massacre with bullsh*t about how concerned they were about how our tax money was was being spent. (Wasting money keeping Texans alive? Hell no. let's spend it to import Haitians with AIDS so we can treat them at taxpayer expense. %^P ) >Anyway, he killed a few feds So what? The Feds killed 90+ civilians when they ""ran out of patience"", to use their own phrase. If the Feds hadn't attacked them, they'd all be home eating dinner with their families tonight. Too bad, but they started it. Maybe next time they'll think twice. That's worth 4 stormtroopers. >He's not the goddam hero here Nobody says he is. What he was was a victim of a left-wing government, that violated its pledge to protect and uphold the Constitution, run amok. Don't worry, though dweeb, we're gonna take it back. (Hey, I'm a white guy, but would it be OK if I quoted Malcolm X here, and said ""by any means necessary""? Nah, never mind. We can do this legally... >He's dead an' i'm happy!!!!! NO, you're just a brainless f*cking trogladyte. Go beat up some soccer fans. Ignorance is bliss, so drool on with that stupid smile on your face when people die needlessly. I hope a badger climbs up your kilt. (Don't expect these UKies to care about this, folks... these bastards never did like the idea that we Americans had the means to defend ourselves and wouldn't stand for tyranical governments, which is why we sent them packing back to their dreary little island with their tails between their legs twice.) ************************************************************************** * I remember what I was doing * Bad boy, whatcha gonna do * * when I heard that JFK had been shot. * Whatcha gonna do * * Will you remember the Battle of Waco? * when they come for you... * *************************************************************************** Ken Whitehead (kdw@odin.icd.ab.com) ",16 "Re: Is it good that Jesus died? jburrill@boi.hp.com (Jim Burrill) writes: >Brian Kendig (bskendig@netcom.com) wrote: >: >: Can you please point to something, anything, that proves to me that >: the universe cannot possibly be explained without accepting as a fact >: the existence of a god in precisely the way your holy book describes? >: >: Can you please convince me that your religion is more than a very >: cleverly-constructed fable, and that it does indeed have some bearing >: on my own personal day-to-day life? > >Would you consider the word of an eye-witness (Peter) to testify to the >events surrounding Jesus' life? No. There are two problems here: (1) Peter died two millenia ago. The original letters he wrote have long since decayed into dust. If he were alive today and I could question him, then this might lend credibility to your claims (but probably not much, because after all, I've heard people claim with all sincerity that they've spoken with Elvis recently). But after his death, Peter's writings were transcribed by monks for centuries, and I find it hard to believe that one of them somewhere didn't decide to change the wording of something to make it (in his opinion) a little easier to understand. (2) Even if Peter did witness the miracles of Jesus two millenia ago, that doesn't mean that your deity is what the Bible says it is (God might just be Satan, trying to convince everyone that he's a nice guy), or even that your deity is still alive and active in the world today. Nice try, but it just isn't enough to convince me, especially since your wild claims about your deity seem to fly in the face of the way I've observed the world to work. Please find something more compelling. -- _/_/_/ Brian Kendig Je ne suis fait comme aucun /_/_/ bskendig@netcom.com de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire _/_/ n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent. / The meaning of life Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre. / is that it ends. -- Rousseau ",19 "Re: Your Evil Tax Dollars at Work, was RE: ATF BURNS RANCH ETC ETC... Mark 'Mark' Sachs writes: >In article <93112.153005MGB@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, > says: >>From A.P. : According to numerous accounts by those in the compound, >>the fire was started by an armoured vehicle crushing a large propane >>tank, and turning over numerous gas lanterns. >Oh? Then why did the smoke and flames start from three different places? >In particular, three different places where there were no APV's? This claim hasn't been retracted or contradicted yet, as many earlier government claims have? At least one clip showed a fire erupting after a tank busted in a wall. We have unsubstantiated claims by the government about the FLIRs spotting ""simultaneous"" fires. >And if the government did start the fire, then why weren't people trying >to get out of the compound? That's easy. Six hours of CS gas, heavy smoke from a rapidly spreading fire, confusion, panic. Only 10% got out. The building was collapsing all around them and finding the way out was a matter of luck. >And besides... oh, I don't know why I'm even bothering. The Davidians may have committed suicide, or some few zealots among them might have started the fires -- that is possible. But, given the government's earlier inability to tell a straight story, I find my above scenario equally possible. I wait for some independent investigation to look into the whole thing. It would be one thing if the government spokespeople had been consistent and forthright throughout. Keeping the press far away and ghettoized in ""pools"" was not conducive to building up trust. Sealing the warrants was non-optimal, as well. This operation was out of control from the git-go. >>I find it tremendously chilling that so many people seem willing to accept >>the governments story, despite much evidence to the contrary. >I find it tremendously chilling that so many people seem eager to believe >a murderous, heavily-armed religious cult, despite much evidence to the >contrary. Thought Experiment: Suppose this exact same thing happened under >the Bush administration. What would your answer be then? Would you still >prefer to believe the cultists? Speaking only for myself, I think Bush and Reagan should have been impeached over Iran-Contra. In 1979, I would probably have given the benefit of the doubt to the government. No more. Like I said, I'll wait to see the results of an independent investigation -- if there is one -- before I choose whom to believe. >(No, I don't really expect a response to that challenge.) But you got one, anyway. >>But then >>again, that is how Mr. Clinton was elected, by people who believe that >>his campaign promisses would be respected by him once he got into office. >Um, isn't that how all politicians are elected? I generally vote for the lesser of two evils. This last time, it was the least of three evils. >>If people will believe that of any politican, it is little wonder they >>will believe all of the factoids being given out as fact by the >>Clinton/Reno/FBI/BATF confederation. >So is there any particular reason the gummint decided to slaughter eighty >people? Are they, like, just plain evil, or what? Did they just wake up >one day, stretch and yawn, and throw a dart at a map of the United States >to figure out who to oppress that day? I'm eager to know. It was a bureaucratic execution. Out of control bureaucracies driven by percieved self-interest and gross stupidity. >And does Bill Clinton have cooler theme music than Darth Vader? How is he >on diabolical laughter? Does he look good in a cape? These things MUST be >investigated. You first. Clinton is just another statist. My only problem with Clinton on this is that he is apparently willing to blindly back the ATF and FBI. > ""...so I propose that we destroy the moon, neatly solving that problem."" >[Your blood pressure just went up.] Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu > DISCLAIMER: If PSU knew I had opinions, they'd try to charge me for them. -- paul hager hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu ""I would give the Devil benefit of the law for my own safety's sake."" --from _A_Man_for_All_Seasons_ by Robert Bolt ",16 "FAQ: Typing Injuries (2/4): General Info [monthly posting] Archive-name: typing-injury-faq/general Version: $Revision: 4.28 $ $Date: 1993/04/13 04:17:58 $ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Answers To Frequently Asked Questions about Typing Injuries ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Typing Injury FAQ -- sources of information for people with typing injuries, repetitive stress injuries, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. Copyright 1992,1993 by Dan Wallach Many FAQs, including this one, are available on the archive site pit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) [18.172.1.27] in the directory pub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which a FAQ is archived appears in the Archive-name line at the top of the article. This FAQ is archived as typing-injury-faq/general.Z There's a mail server also. Just e-mail mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu with the word 'help' on a line by itself in the body. The opinions in here are my own, unless otherwise mentioned, and do not represent the opinions of any organization or vendor. I'm not a medical doctor, so my advice should be taken with many grains of salt. [Current distribution: sci.med.occupational, sci.med, comp.human-factors, {news,sci,comp}.answers, and e-mail to c+health@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu, sorehand@vm.ucsf.edu, and cstg-L@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu] Changes since previously distributed versions are marked with change || bars to the right of the text, as is this paragraph. || Table of Contents: ==1== Mailing lists, newsgroups, etc. ==2== The soda.berkeley.edu archive ==3== General info on injuries ==4== Typing posture, ergonomics, prevention, treatment ==5== Requests for more info ==6== References ==1== Mailing lists, newsgroups, etc. USENET News: ----------- comp.human-factors occasionally has discussion about alternative input devices. comp.risks has an occasional posting relevant to injuries via computers. sci.med and misc.handicap also tend to have relevant traffic. There's a Brand New newsgroup, sci.med.occupational, chartered specifically to discuss these things. This would be the recommended place to post. Mailing lists: ------------- The RSI Network: Available both on paper and via e-mail, this publication covers issues relevant to those with repetitive stress injuries. For a sample issue and subscription information, send a stamped, self- addressed business envelope to Caroline Rose, 970 Paradise Way, Palo Alto CA 94306. E-mail to $2 donation, requested. All RSI Network newsletters are available via anonymous ftp from soda.berkeley.edu (see below for details). c+health and sorehand are both IBM Listserv things. For those familiar with Listserv, here's the quick info: c+health -- subscribe to listserv@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu post to c+health@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu sorehand -- subscribe to listserv@vm.ucsf.edu post to sorehand@vm.ucsf.edu Quick tutorial on subscribing to a Listserv: % mail listserv@vm.ucsf.edu Subject: Total Listserv Mania! SUBSCRIBE SOREHAND J. Random Hacker INFO ? . That's all there is to it. You'll get bunches of mail back from the Listserv, including a list of other possible commands you can mail. Cool, huh? What'll those BITNET people think of, next? ==2== The soda.berkeley.edu archive I've started an archive site for info related to typing injuries. Just anonymous ftp to soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury. (128.32.149.19) Currently, you'll find: Informative files: typing-injury-faq/ general -- information about typing injuries keyboards -- products to replace your keyboard software -- software to watch your keyboard usage changes -- changes since last month's edition (new!) || keyboard-commentary -- Dan's opinions on the keyboard replacements amt.advice -- about Adverse Mechanical Tension caringforwrists.sit.hqx -- PageMaker4 document about your wrists caringforwrists.ps -- PostScript converted version of above... carpal.info -- info on Carpal Tunnel Syndrome carpal.explained -- very detailed information about CTS carpal.surgery -- JAMA article on CTS surgery carpal.tidbits -- TidBITS article on CTS tendonitis.info -- info on Tendonitis rsi.biblio -- bibliography of RSI-related publications rsi-network/* -- archive of the RSI Network newsletter (currently, containing issues 1 through 11) || rsi.details -- long detailed information about RSI rsi.physical -- study showing RSI isn't just psychological Various product literature: apple-press -- press release on the Apple Adjustable Keyboard apple-tidbits -- extensive info about Apple's Adjustable Keybd bat-info -- MacWeek review on the Bat || comfort-* -- marketing info on the Comfort Keyboard datahand-review -- detailed opinions of the DataHand datahand-review2 -- follow-up to above datahand-desc -- description of the DataHand's appearance kinesis-review -- one user's personal opinions maltron-* -- marketing info on various Maltron products maltron-review -- one user's personal opinions vertical-info -- marketing info on the Vertical (new!) || Programs: (With the exception of accpak.exe, everything here is distributed as source to be compiled with a Unix system. Some programs take advantage of the X window system, also.) hsh.shar -- a program for one-handed usage of normal keyboards typewatch.shar -- tells you when to take a break xdvorak.c -- turns your QWERTY keyboard into Dvorak xidle.shar -- keeps track of how long you've been typing rest-reminder.sh -- yet another idle watcher kt15.tar -- generates fake X keyboard events from the serial port -- use a PC keyboard on anything! (new improved version!) accpak.exe -- a serial port keyboard spoofer for MS Windows (Note: a2x.tar and rk.tar are both from export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/ so they may have a more current version than soda.) a2x.tar -- a more sophisticated X keyboard/mouse spoofing program. Supports DragonDictate. (note: a new version is now available) || rk.tar -- the reactive keyboard -- predicts what you'll type next -- saves typing Pictures (in the gifs subdirectory): howtosit.gif -- picture of good sitting posture (the caringforwrists document is better for this) accukey1.gif -- fuzzy picture accukey2.gif -- fuzzy picture with somebody using it apple.gif -- the Apple Adjustable Keyboard || bat.gif -- the InfoGrip Bat comfort.gif -- the Health Care Comfort Keyboard datahand1.gif -- fuzzy picture datahand2.gif -- key layout schematic datahand3.gif -- a much better picture of the datahand flexpro.gif -- the Key Tronic FlexPro keyboard || kinesis1.gif -- the Kinesis Ergonomic Keyboard kinesis2.gif -- multiple views of the Kinesis || maltron[1-4].gif -- several pictures of Maltron products mikey1.gif -- the MIKey mikey2.gif -- Schematic Picture of the MIKey tony.gif -- The Tony! Ergonomic Keysystem || twiddler1.gif -- ""front"" view twiddler2.gif -- ""side"" view vertical.gif -- the Vertical keyboard || wave.gif -- the Iocomm `Wave' keyboard Many files are compressed (have a .Z ending). If you can't uncompress a file locally, soda will do it. Just ask for the file, without the .Z extension. If you're unable to ftp to soda, send me e-mail and we'll see what we can arrange. ==3== General info on injuries First, and foremost of importance: if you experience pain at all, then you absolutely need to go see a doctor. As soon as you possibly can. The difference of a day or two can mean the difference between a short recovery and a long, drawn-out ordeal. GO SEE A DOCTOR. Now, your garden-variety doctor may not necessarily be familiar with this sort of injury. Generally, any hospital with an occupational therapy clinic will offer specialists in these kinds of problems. DON'T WAIT, THOUGH. GO SEE A DOCTOR. The remainder of this information is paraphrased, without permission, from a wonderful report by New Zealand's Department of Labour (Occupational Safety and Health Service): ""Occupational Overuse Syndrome. Treatment and Rehabilitation: A Practitioner's Guide"". First, a glossary (or, fancy names for how you shouldn't have your hands): (note: you're likely to hear these terms from doctors and keyboard vendors :) RSI: Repetitive Strain Injury - a general term for many kinds of injuries OOS: Occupational Overuse Syndrome -- synonym for RSI CTD: Cumulative Trauma Disorder -- another synonym for RSI WRULD: Work-Related Upper Limb Disorders -- yet another synonym for RSI CTS: Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (see below) Hyperextension: Marked bending at a joint. Pronation: Turning the palm down. Wrist extension: Bending the wrist up. Supination: Turning the palm up. Wrist flexion: Bending the wrist down. Pinch grip: The grip used for a pencil. Ulnar deviation: Bending the wrist towards the little finger. Power grip: The grip used for a hammer. Radial Deviation: Bending the wrist toward the thumb. Abduction: Moving away from the body. Overspanning: Opening the fingers out wide. Now then, problems come in two main types: Local conditions and diffuse conditions. Local problems are what you'd expect: specific muscles, tendons, tendon sheaths, nerves, etc. being inflamed or otherwise hurt. Diffuse conditions, often mistaken for local problems, can involve muscle discomfort, pain, burning and/or tingling; with identifiable areas of tenderness in muscles, although they're not necessarily ""the problem."" --- Why does Occupational Overuse Syndrome occur? Here's the theory. Normally, your muscles and tendons get blood through capillaries which pass among the muscle fibers. When you tense a muscle, you restrict the blood flow. By the time you're exerting 50% of your full power, you're completely restricting your blood flow. Without fresh blood, your muscles use stored energy until they run out, then they switch to anaerobic (without oxygen) metabolism, which generates nasty by-products like lactic acid, which cause pain. Once one muscle hurts, all its neighbors tense up, perhaps to relieve the load. This makes sense for your normal sort of injury, but it only makes things worse with repetitive motion. More tension means less blood flow, and the cycle continues. Another by-product of the lack of blood flow is tingling and numbness from your nerves. They need blood too. Anyway, when you're typing too much, you're never really giving a change for the blood to get back where it belongs, because your muscles never relax enough to let the blood through. Stress, poor posture, and poor ergonomics, only make things worse. --- Specific injuries you may have heard of: (note: most injuries come in two flavors: acute and chronic. Acute injuries are severely painful and noticable. Chronic conditions have less pronounced symptoms but are every bit as real.) Tenosynovitis -- an inflamation of the tendon sheath. Chronic tenosynovitis occurs when the repetitive activity is mild or intermittent: not enough to cause acute inflamation, but enough to exceed the tendon sheath's ability to lubricate the tendon. As a result, the tendon sheath thickens, gets inflamed, and you've got your problem. Tendonitis -- an inflammation of a tendon. Repeated tensing of a tendon can cause inflamation. Eventually, the fibers of the tendon start separating, and can even break, leaving behind debris which induces more friction, more swelling, and more pain. ""Sub-acute"" tendonitis is more common, which entails a dull ache over the wrist and forearm, some tenderness, and it gets worse with repetitive activity. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome -- the nerves that run through your wrist into your fingers get trapped by the inflamed muscles around them. Symptoms include feeling ""pins and needles"", tingling, numbness, and even loss of sensation. CTS is often confused for a diffuse condition. Adverse Mechanical Tension -- also known as 'neural tension', this is where the nerves running down to your arm have become contracted and possibly compressed as a result of muscle spasms in the shoulders and elsewhere. AMT can often misdiagnosed as or associated with one of the other OOS disorders. It is largely reversible and can be treated with physiotherapy (brachial plexus stretches and trigger point therapy). Others: for just about every part of your body, there's a fancy name for a way to injure it. By now, you should be getting an idea of how OOS conditions occur and why. Just be careful: many inexperienced doctors misdiagnose problems as Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, when in reality, you may have a completely different problem. Always get a second opinion before somebody does something drastic to you (like surgery). ==4== Typing posture, ergonomics, prevention, treatment The most important element of both prevention and recovery is to reduce tension in the muscles and tendons. This requires learning how to relax. If you're under a load of stress, this is doubly important. Tune out the world and breath deep and regular. Relaxing should become a guiding principle in your work: every three minutes take a three second break. EVERY THREE MINUTES, TAKE A THREE SECOND BREAK. Really, do it every three minutes. It's also helpful to work in comfortable surroundings, calm down, and relax. If you can't sleep, you really need to focus on this. Rest, sleep, and relaxation are really a big deal. There are all kinds of other treatments, of course. Drugs can reduce inflamation and pain. Custom-molded splints can forcefully prevent bad posture. Surgery can fix some problems. Exercise can help strengthen your muscles. Regular stretching can help prevent injury. Good posture and a good ergonomic workspace promote reduced tension. Ice or hot-cold contrast baths also reduce swelling. Only your doctor can say what's best for you. --- Posture -- here are some basic guidelines. [I so liked the way this was written in the New Zealand book that I'm lifting it almost verbatim from Appendix 10. -- dwallach] . Let your shoulders relax. . Let your elbows swing free. . Keep your wrists straight. . Pull your chin in to look down - don't flop your head forward. . Keep the hollow in the base of your spine. . Try leaning back in the chair. . Don't slouch or slump forward. . Alter your posture from time to time. . Every 20 minutes, get up and bend your spine backward. Set the seat height, first. Your feet should be flat on the floor. There should be no undue pressure on the underside of your thighs near the knees, and your thighs should not slope too much. Now, draw yourself up to your desk and see that its height is comfortable to work at. If you are short, this may be impossible. The beest remedy is to raise the seat height and prevent your legs from dangling by using a footrest. Now, adjust the backrest height so that your buttocks fit into the space between the backrest and the seat pan. The backrest should support you in the hollow of your back, so adjust its tilt to give firm support in this area. If you operate a keyboard, you will be able to spend more time leaning back, so experiment with a chair with a taller backrest, if available. [Now, I diverge a little from the text] A good chair makes a big difference. If you don't like your chair, go find a better one. You really want adjustments for height, back angle, back height, and maybe even seat tilt. Most arm rests seem to get in the way, although some more expensive chairs have height adjustable arm rests which you can also rotate out of the way. You should find a good store and play with all these chairs -- pick one that's right for you. In the San Francisco Bay Area, I highly recommend ""Just Chairs."" The name says it all. --- Keyboard drawers, wrist pads, and keyboard replacements: There is a fair amount of controvery on how to get this right. For some people, wrist pads seem to work wonders. However, with good posture, you shouldn't be resting your wrists on anything -- you would prefer your keyboard to be ""right there"". If you drop your arms at your side and then lift your hands up at the elbow, you want your keyboard under your hands when your elbows are at about 90 degrees. Of course, you want to avoid pronation, wrist extension, and ulnar deviation at all costs. Wrist pads may or may not help at this. You should get somebody else to come and look at how you work: how you sit, how you type, and how you relax. It's often easier for somebody else to notice your hunched shoulders or deviated hands. Some argue that the normal, flat keyboard is antiquated and poorly designed. A number of replacements are available, on the market, today. Check out the accompanying typing-injury-faq/keyboards for much detail. ==5== Requests for more info Clearly, the above information is incomplete. The typing-injury archive is incomplete. There's always more information out there. If you'd like to submit something, please send me mail, and I'll gladly throw it in. If you'd like to maintain a list of products or vendors, that would be wonderful! I'd love somebody to make a list of chair/desk vendors. I'd love somebody to make a list of doctors. I'd love somebody to edit the above sections, looking for places where I've obviously goofed. ==6== References I completely rewrote the information section here, using a wonderful guide produced in New Zealand by their Occupational Safety & Health Service, a service of their Department of Labour. Special thanks to the authors: Wigley, Turner, Blake, Darby, McInnes, and Harding. Semi-bibliographic reference: . Occupational Overuse Syndrome . Treatment and Rehabilitation: A Practitioner's Guide Published by the Occupational Safety and Health Service Department of Labour Wellington, New Zealand. First Edition: June 1992 ISBN 0-477-3499-3 Price: $9.95 (New Zealand $'s, of course) Thanks to Richard Donkin for reviewing this posting. -- Dan Wallach ""One of the most attractive features of a Connection dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu Machine is the array of blinking lights on the faces Office#: 510-642-9585 of its cabinet."" -- CM Paris Ref. Manual, v6.0, p48. ",13 "16 Apr 93 God's Promise in Psalm 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye. Psalm 32:8 ",19 "Re: Fractal Generation of Clouds haabn@nye.nscee.edu (Frederick J. Haab) writes: >I need to implement an algorithm to fractally generate clouds >as sort of a benchmark for some algorithms I'm working on. Just as a matter of interest, a self-promo computer graphics sequence that one of the local TV stations used to play quite a lot a couple of years ago showed a 3D flyover of Australia from the West coast to the East. The clouds were quite recognisable as fuzzy, flat, white Mandlebrot sets!! David Silver ",1 "Re: POTVIN and HIS STICK In article <2346575PS380.9.0@sscl.uwo.ca> 2346575PS380@sscl.uwo.ca writes: >In article <1r68fs$fhc@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> hallg@yangtze.egr.msu.edu (The Terminator) writes: >>From: hallg@yangtze.egr.msu.edu (The Terminator) >>Felix Potvin deserves to have the sh&$ kicked out of him. If there is anyone >>that he should be hitting with his stick, its his pussy defensemen who can't >>seem to move big Dino Ciccerelli (5'10"" 180 lbs) out from in front of the net. >> >>Obviously Toronto has realized that they are overmatched by the Wings and must >>rely on trying to antagonize the superior Red Wings with cheap shots. I prefer >>to watch hockey than seeing shots of Felix Potvin slashing and spearing Dino >>Ciccerelli standing in front of the net. HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO STAND IN >>FRONT OF THE NET, JUST NOT IN THE CREASE! Yes, he does. BUT, the goalie sure as hell doesn't want him there! When I played roller hockey (boy do I miss those days) as a goalie, I would scream at my defense to clear guys out of the slot. I don't care if he's in the crease or not, get him the hell away from me so I can see the ball! (Yes, roller hockey, remember) And if there was nobody around to clear the slot, then I'd do it myself by pushing the offending player--*hard*. I *hate* people in my way when I'm the goalie, and I am sure Felix does too. I should say that I didn't see the incident, so if Potvin really swung the stick big time, then that's not right, but he can move people out of the way. He's a player on the ice too, you know. :-) -- Keith Keller LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!! kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!! In this corner LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!! Weighing in at almost every weight imaginable . . . Life, and all that surrounds it. -- Blues Traveler, 1993 ",10 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr17.184435.19725@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca (OPIRG) writes: >Many people responded with more anecdotal stories; I think its safe to >say the original poster is already familiar with such stories. >Presumably, he wants hard info to substantiate or refute claims about >MSG making people ill. There has been NO hard info provided about MSG making people ill. That's the point, after all. >>Like youself? Someone who can read a scientific paper and apparently >>come away from it with bizarrely cracked ideas which have nothing to >>do with the use of this substance in human nutrition? >Have you read Olney's work? I fail to see how citing results from >peer-reviewed studies qualifies as ""bizarrely cracked"". That's because these ""peer-reviewed"" studies are not addressing the effects of MSG in people, they're looking at animal models. You can't walk away from this and start ranting about gloom and doom as if there were any documented deleterious health effects demonstrated in humans. Note that I wouldn't have any argument with a statement like ""noting that animal administration has pro- duced the following [blah, blah], we must be careful about its use in humans."" This is precisely NOT what you said. >Tests have been done on Rhesus monkeys, as well. I have never seen a >study where the mode of administration was intra-ventricular. The Glu >and Asp were administered orally. Some studies used IV and SC. >Intra-ventricular is not a normal admin. method for food tox. studies, >for obvious reasons. You must not have read the peer-reviewed works >that I referred to or you would never have come up with this brain >injection bunk. It most certainly is for neurotoxicology. You know, studies of glutamate involve more than ""food science"". >Pardon me, but where are you getting this from? Have you read the >journals? Have you done a thorough literature search? So, point us to the studies in humans, please. I'm familiar with the literature, and I've never seen any which relate at all to Olney's work in animals and the effects of glutamate on neurons. >The point is exceeding the window. Of course, they're amino acids. >Note that people with PKU cannot tolerate any phenylalanine. Well, actually, they HAVE to tolerate some phenylalanine; it's a essential amino acid. They just try to get as little as is healthy without producing dangerous levels of phenylalanine and its metabolites in the blood. >Olney's research compared infant human diets. Specifically, the amount >of freely available Glu in mother's milk versus commercial baby foods, >vs. typical lunch items from the Standard American Diet such as packaged >soup mixes. He found that one could exceed the projected safety margin >for infant humans by at least four-fold in a single meal of processed >foods. Mother's milk was well below the effective dose. Goodness, I'm not saying that it's good to feed infants a lot of glutamate-supplemented foods. It's just that this ""projected safety margin"" is a construct derived from animal models and given that, you can ""prove"" anything you like. We're talking prudent policy in infant nutrition here, yet you're misrepresenting it as received wisdom. >>>Read Olney's review paper in Prog. Brain Res, 1988, and check *his* >>>sources. They are impecable. There is no dispute. >> >>Impeccable. There most certainly is a dispute. > >Between who? Over what? I would be most interested in seeing you >provide peer-reviewed non-food-industry-funded citations to articles >disputing that MSG has no effects whatsoever. You mean ""asserting"". You're being intellectually dishonest (or just plain confused), because you're conflating reports which do not necessarily have anything to do with each other. Olney's reports would argue a potential for problems in human infants, but that's not to say that this says anything whatsoever about the use of MSG in most foods, nor does he provide any studies in humans which indicate any deleterious effects (for obvious reasons.) It says nothing about MSG's contribtion to the phenomenon of the ""Chinese Restaurant Syndrome"". It says nothing about the frequent inability to replicate anecdotal reports of MSG sensitivity in the lab. >>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com >Hmm. "".com"". Why am I not surprised? >- Dianne Murray wcsbeau@ccs.carleton.ca Probably one of the dumber remarks you've made. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer ",13 "Re: 486DX/33 CPU chip for sale, $250 In article goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL) writes: >>> 486DX/33 CPU chip for sale, $250+shipping. If you like to pay $250 for the >>Please refer to 7870, he is selling $150 for that CPU. > >Correct. & $150 may be high now that AMD has started selling 486 clones! Indeed! Word is, Intel's lawsuit against AMD was absolutely THROWN OUT of court Monday! AMD said they would be shipping chips WITH THE INTEL INSTRUCTION SET next week!!! 486 chip prices are going to go through the floor, mark my words!!! Regards, Gordon. -- WATERS,CLYDE GORDON-BME '93-Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta Ga. ""Out of the mountain of despair, we can hew the stone of hope""- MLK Jr. uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0869a Internet: gt0869a@prism.gatech.edu ",6 "Re: HBP? BB? BIG-CAT? In article <9460@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes: >kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) said: > >>And finally, I'd like to point out that many high OBP guys draw >>their walks more because pitchers are afraid to throw a strike >>to them, than because they have a great ""eye"" > >I'm not sure. I used to think this was true, but more and more I'm becoming >convinced that it's the other way around: among players with the physical >ability to hit the ball real hard, the patient ones are the ones who get the >chance to do it a lot. > >Let's break down the four basic categories of hitter, according to whether >they are power threats and whether they walk a lot: > > > Power No Power > > Patient Frank Thomas Brett Butler > Barry Bonds Ozzie Smith > Mark McGwire Craig Grebeck > Babe Ruth Miller Huggins > Ted Williams Billy Hamilton > Rickey Henderson Eddie Joost > Joe Morgan Mike Hargrove > . . > . . > . . > > Impatient Ernie Banks Ozzie Guillen > Dave Kingman Shawon Dunston > Joe Carter Andres Thomas > George Bell Jose Lind > Kirby Puckett Devon White Okay, I think we all agree that singles hitters should take a strike or two and try to get on base any way they can. So the ""No Power/Impatient"" guys have no excuse. The ""No Power/Patient"" guys are doing the right thing. Now the ""Impatient/Power"" guys (how could you leave out the Big Cat?). Would these guys have a better slugging percentage if they took more pitches? Perhaps, but I doubt it. If you tell Joe Carter to go up there and take a few pitches, he will draw more walks, but he also won't hit as many frozen ropes into the bleachers because he is more likely to hold back on a pitch that he used to drive. The ""Patient/Power"" guys? Joe Morgan had a small strike zone and Rickey Henderson has ""a strike zone the size of Hitler's heart"" so they get their walks based on the small zone. Look at the other 5 guys: Thomas, Bonds, McGwire, Ruth and Williams. Wow! A lot of pitchers would rather nibble at the corners and maybe walk these guys that to throw a clear strike to them. The pitchers would do better (in my opinion) by just coming after them with a good fastball for a strike on the first pitch, but pitchers would rather nibble, go 2-0 or 3-1 and then get hurt. Ken Kubey kubey@wpd.sgi.com (415) 390-3536 ",9 "eight 4mb 70ns simms $105/ea., o.b.o. a friend of mine has eight (8) 4mb 70ns simms for sale for $105/each or best offer. since techworks sells these puppies for $140/ea., you may want to contact him directly at: steve epstein 895-6236 days 706-2436 evenings thanks, bruce l. **** From Planet BMUG, the FirstClass BBS of BMUG. The message contained in **** this posting does not in any way reflect BMUG's official views. ",4 "Re: Lindbergh and the moon (was:Why not give $1G) In article <1r3nuvINNjep@lynx.unm.edu>, cook@varmit.mdc.com (Layne Cook) writes: > All of this talk about a COMMERCIAL space race (i.e. $1G to the first 1-year > moon base) is intriguing. Similar prizes have influenced aerospace > development before. The $25k Orteig prize helped Lindbergh sell his Spirit of > Saint Louis venture to his financial backers. > But I strongly suspect that his Saint Louis backers had the foresight to > realize that much more was at stake than $25,000. > Could it work with the moon? Who are the far-sighted financial backers of > today? The commercial uses of a transportation system between already-settled- and-civilized areas are obvious. Spaceflight is NOT in this position. The correct analogy is not with aviation of the '30's, but the long transocean voyages of the Age of Discovery. It didn't require gov't to fund these as long as something was known about the potential for profit at the destination. In practice, some were gov't funded, some were private. But there was no way that any wise investor would spend a large amount of money on a very risky investment with no idea of the possible payoff. I am sure that a thriving spaceflight industry will eventually develop, and large numbers of people will live and work off-Earth. But if you ask me for specific justifications other than the increased resource base, I can't give them. We just don't know enough. The launch rate demanded by existing space industries is just too low to bring costs down much, and we are very much in the dark about what the revolutionary new space industries will be, when they will practical, how much will have to be invested to start them, etc. -- Keith Mancus | N5WVR | ""Black powder and alcohol, when your states and cities fall, | when your back's against the wall...."" -Leslie Fish | ",14 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? >In article <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: >>We used to live in a country where everyone enjoyed the free exercise of >>their rights to worship and bear arms. I can't contest the constitutional right to ""bear arms"", but I sort of draw the line at worshipping them. Can you say ""avodah zarah?"" Meanwhile, back in soc.culture.jewish.... I had expected to see some commentary on the Lubavitcher Rebbe Shlita announcement that was posted here a while ago. How did it go? -- There was a young man from Dwight ....... | bobwest@code3.code3.com Who traveled faster than light; ......... | Gluecklichkeit ist Recht haben! Taking a trip one day, in a relative way, | Freiheit ist Rechte haben! He arrived the previous night! .......... | Legalize Updoc!!! ...bw ",19 "Re: PC keyboard In article wen@yingyang.ral.rpi.edu (John Wen) writes: >From: wen@yingyang.ral.rpi.edu (John Wen) >Subject: PC keyboard >Summary: location of cap lock and ctrl keys on PC keyboard >Keywords: cap lock and ctrl key >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 19:23:35 GMT >Does anyone know of a software that can exchange caps lock and ctrl >keys on the AT-style keyboard? I'm looking for a memory resident >program that can work with other programs, rather than a feature in a >specific program (I am aware of a shareware program ""back and forth"" >that provides this feature within that program). Thanks. A program in the archive keymap00.zip on simtel and mirror sites in the msdos/keyboard directory will do this. It is written in assembler and it best if you have a compiler to create a new keyboard map. It is possible, however, to use a binary editor to edit the provided compiled keyboard driver if you do not have a compiler. I used hexed100.zip, also available on simtel. Simply serach for the codes 00 01 02 03 to locate the biginning of the ""normal"" keyboard map. Then swap the codes for the keys that you wish to swap. See the keyboard directory of simtel for programs that report the scancode for each key to you (some bios programs also have this info). Good luck, - Pete ____________________________________________________________________________ | Peter J. McKinney pm860605@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu | | Electrohydrodynamic Laboratory | | Fluid Mechanics and Wind Engineering Program | | Civil Engineering Department | | Colorado State University | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",3 "XDM, Xkernel, and olwm Greetings, We have a network of ~20 Sun Workstations, running SunOS 4.1.1 and Openwindows 3. 7 of these are Sun 3's that we have modified to run Seth Robertson's xkernel image, effectively turning them into xterminals. We use xdm (X11R4) to manage the displays. When we had 3 xkernel machines, things worked fine, but when we installed 4 more last weekend, we appear to have found a weakness. With 7 clients to 1 Sparc 2, the Sparc 2 window manager is eventually getting munged. Let me try to be precise: The user sitting at the machine that does all the actual processing for these xterminals is having control of his keyboard and screen yanked away. (When this was the department chair, it was kind of cute). We poked at xdm for a few days and are satisfied that it is not at fault. Our current theory is that olwm (the Sun version) was not meant for running multiple copies on one machine (which is what happens -- the console user runs olwm, and every xterminal logged in has olwm running on the xterminal server). Has anyone had any prior experience with this sort of behavior? Can anyone shoot obvious holes in this theory? How about obvious gimmes? And, of course, any ideas on how to solve it? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Greg Owen { gowen@forte.cs.tufts.edu, gowen@jade.tufts.edu } Systems Programmer and TA, Tufts University Computer Science Dept. Personal info: GCS/GO d++ -p+ c+++ m*/m- s++/- g+ w+/w-- x+ email for explanation if interested... ",5 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: #In article <1qjahh$mrs@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #>In article pww@spacsun.rice.edu ( #>#> Objective morality is morality built from objective values. #># #>#But where do those objective values come from? How can we measure them? #>#What mediated thair interaction with the real world, a moralon? Or a scalar #>#valuino field? #> #>Science (""the real world"") has its basis in values, not the other way round, #>as you would wish it. If there is no such thing as objective value, then #>science can not objectively be said to be more useful than a kick in the head. #>Simple theories with accurate predictions could not objectively be said #>to be more useful than a set of tarot cards. You like those conclusions? #>I don't. # # These are non sequitar. If there is no objective value, nothing can be objectively valued. ""useful"" is a value judgement, and ""science"" is something which can be valued. It sequits fine :-) -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Date is stuck Anybody seen the date get stuck? I'm running MS-DOS 5.0 with a menu system alive all the time. The machine is left running all the time. Suddenly, the date no longer rolls over. The time is (reasonably) accurate allways, but we have to change the date by hand every morning. This involves exiting the menu system to get to DOS. Anyone have the slightest idea why this should be? Even a clue as to whether the hardware (battery? CMOS?) or DOS is broken? -- Kevin O'Gorman ( kevin@kosman.UUCP, kevin%kosman.uucp@nrc.com ) voice: 805-984-8042 Vital Computer Systems, 5115 Beachcomber, Oxnard, CA 93035 Non-Disclaimer: my boss is me, and he stands behind everything I say. ",3 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. johnson@trwacs.fp.trw.com (Steve Johnson) writes: >>-Tim May, whose sig block may get him busted in the New Regime > A remark I heard the other day is beginning to take on increasingly >frightening significance. The comment was made that ""In other parts >of the world the Democrats [note the big ""D""] would be known as >Socialists"" And in other parts of the world, European ""Socialists"" would be known as fascist capitalist pigs. Get your head out of your labels and think carefully for once: According to the EFF announcement on this thing, the NSA has been developing this turkey for *four* years. The manufacturing contract was let *14 months ago*. Anyone out there who believes that the fact that Clinton's name was on this White House announcement means that Bush or any other Republican is a staunch supporter of personal privacy is a fool. If this topic disturbs you, can the political finger-pointing and talk about what you can do about it. If you've just GOT to point fingers, remember that this scheme was STARTED when a secret policeman was President. ",11 "Re: Newspapers censoring gun advertisements Andy Freeman (andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU) wrote: : >NEWSPAPER AD CENSORSHIP : > : >San Fran. Independent San Fran. Examiner San Jose Mercury News : >1201 Evans Ave 110 5th St. 750 Ridder Park Dr. : >San Fran., CA 94124 San Fran., CA 94103 San Jose, CA 95190 : Hmmm, the SJ Merc. carries Targemasters West, National Shooting club, Reeds sportshop, Sportsmens supply and Big 5 ads. They all sell guns. No they don't have any adds like in Shotgun news. If they won't at least run the current adds I swear I'll cancel my subscription and end to cash to the CRPA. Rob P. ",16 "Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions? I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver (Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out there have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to say... I'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all three have any strong opinions? Ford Explorer Toyota 4Runner Nissan Pathfinder Currently I'm leaning toward the Toyota, 'cause I've had big success with Toyota trucks in the past, and 'cause I think it's the best looking of the three. But I thought I'd see if anyone has any strong opinions.... Thanks! -Karl -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Karl Elvis MacRae Software Release Support Cisco Systems kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com 415-688-8231 DoD# 1999 FJ1200 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ""Shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"" -Arlo Guthrie ",7 "Re: -= Hell =- In article dmn@kepler.unh.edu (There's a seeker born every minute.) writes: > That would depend on what Heaven is like. If God is a King, and >an eternity in heaven consists of giving thanks and praise to the King, >I might opt for Hell. I read a lovely account of a missionary trying to But then, on the other hand, if you really loved that King more than you did yourself, and He loved you to the point of assuring you that the eternal time spent with him would be eternal ecstasy, would you really opt for that choice? > Dana -- John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet: ata@hfsi.com HFS, Inc. VA20 | UUCP: uunet!hfsi!ata 7900 Westpark Drive MS:601 | Voice: (703) 827-6810 McLean, VA 22102 | FAX: (703) 827-3729 ",15 "Re: SJ Mercury's reference to Fundamentali In article , dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes: |> ""Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist |> Christian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. ... |> Were the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with |> ""Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten..."", my face would >Perhaps because there is a connection here that is not there in the Mexican >variant you bring up. This is true. The statement didn't say anything about Christians in general. It specifically said ""strict fundamentalist"" Christians. It reflects a common perception that people have about fundamentalists being strict disciplinarians. Whether or not this perception is justified is another issue. [The other reading is that they are distinguishing between strict and relaxed fundamentalists. --clh] ",15 "Re: We knew it would happen In talk.politics.guns, jagst18+@pitt.edu (Josh A Grossman) writes: Well Josh I agree with you to some respect...less your spelling errors. The Gov'mnt always must win! even if they kill every man women and child....by GOD they must win at all costs...... This happens over and over and over in this country. Lets make excuses, get the worthless press to cover up everything, let the officials take the heat for top management stupidity etc...etc... > I am sick with greif for the entire well being of this nation and the > constitution in claims to protect. > > Later, > Josh > >later Morty ",16 "Re: Sun 4 as X terminal >> Xkernel is available for Sun 3/50s. Is there a similar package available > ^^^^^^^ > > Is this public domain? If yes, where can one obtain a copy from? Yes, it is. It is available at ftp.ctr.columbia.edu, probably in pub/xkernel. In response to the earlier gentlemans question, you could theoretically recompile xkernel on a sun4. The binaries available are for the sun3/50, but the author says it could be used on most architectures, and he does have a 'do-it-yourself' type distribution. We use Xkernel for about 7 machines here. email me if you have any questions I can help you with... Greg Owen { gowen@forte.cs.tufts.edu, gowen@jade.tufts.edu } Systems Programmer and TA, Tufts University Computer Science Dept. Personal info: GCS/GO d-- -p+ c+++ l++ m*/m- s++/- g+ w+/w-- t+ r-- x+ ",5 "Re: Question for those with popular morality In article <1993Apr03.044958.15500@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes: >understand what the words mean. Someone who inflicts pain on themselves >because they enjoy it is a masochist. > >And, no: there is nothing wrong with it. You may think it's gross or >bizarre (and I might agree with you here), but my/your disgust is not equal >to it being morally wrong. /(hudson) /If someone inflicts pain on themselves, whether they enjoy it or not, they /are hurting themselves. They may be permanently damaging their body. That is true. It is also none of your business. Some people may also reason that by reading the bible and being a Xtian you are permanently damaging your brain. By your logic, it would be OK for them to come into your home, take away your bible, and send you off to ""re-education camps"" to save your mind from ruin. Are you ready for that? /(hudson) /And why is there nothing wrong with it? Because you say so? Who gave you /the authority to say that, and set the standard for morality? Why? Because: I am a living, thinking person able to make choices for myself. I do not ""need"" you to show me what you think is the way; I have observed too many errors in your thinking already to trust you to make up the rules for me. Because: I set the standard for my *own* morality, and I permit you to do the same for yourself. I also do not try to force you to accept my rules. Because: Simply because you don't like what other people are doing doesn't give you the right to stop it, Hudson. We are all aware that you would like for everyone to be like you. However, it is obnoxious, arrogant thinking like yours, the ""I-know-I'm-morally-right-so-I-can-force-it-on-you"" bullshit that has brought us religious wars, pogroms against Jews, gay-bashing, and other atrocities by other people who, like you, ""knew"" they were morally right. (me) >What is it with you, Hudson? You think you know better than other people, >so you want to be able to tell them what they can and cannot do to >themselves? Who died and made you God? How come I can't do the same >thing? /(hudson) /Aren't you? Aren't you indicating that I should not tell other people what to do? Aren't you telling me it is wrong for me to do that? It is not a moral standard that I am presenting you with, Hudson. It is a key to getting along in life with other people. It is also a point of respect: I trust other people to be intelligent enough to make their own choices, and I expect the same to be returned. You, on the other hand, do not trust them, and want to make the choice for them--whether they like it or not. It is also a way to avoid an inconsistency: if you believe that you have the right to set moral standards for others and interfere in their lives, then you must, by logic, admit that other people have the same right of interference in your life. (Yes, I know; you will say that your religion is correct and tells you that only agents acting in behalf of your religion have the right of interference. However, other people will say that you have misinterpreted the Word of God and that *they* are the actual true believers, and that you are acting on your own authority. And so it goes). (hudson) /Who gave /you the authority to set such a moral standard for me to tell me that I /cannot set a moral standard for others? You can set all the standards that you want, actually. But don't be surprised if people don't follow you like rats after the Pied Piper. At the most basic form, I am not going to LET you tell me what to do; and if necessary, I will beat you to a bloody pulp before I let you actually interfere in my life. Now, at a more humane level than that, I recognize that all people are sentient beings possessed of intelligence and capable of reason. I also recognize that they, like I, appreciate being treated with respect and allowed to make their own decisions. ",19 "Re: Riddle me this... On the subject of CS/CN/tear gas: when I received my initial introduction to tear gas, the first thing that came to mind was the location of the exit. If there had been anything in the way, corners to negotiate, doors to open, or any other obstacles to movement, I would have had a difficult time exiting the chamber. And any concentration of tear gas is hazardous to individuals with respiratory problems, and the wearing of soft contact lenses in a tear gas contaminated area is considered a REAL BAD IDEA. So hoping the BD's would peaceably come strolling out the door after being gassed is a bit unrealistic. If they could have found the door, having them staggering out retching wouldn't be too far fetched. Throw in the factor of 50-51 days of being under siege and subject to psychological warfare, and all bets on functional abilities are off. Anybody tried to get Amnesty International to jump in on this one? -- ******************************************************************************** James S. Cochrane * When in danger, or in doubt, run in * This space gt6511a@prism.gatech.edu * circles, scream and shout. * for rent ******************************************************************************** ",16 "Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam... In article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes: > >before you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a reasonable >profit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to >it. Whoa! Watch your terminology. ""Dealer invoice"" is *not* ""dealer cost"". You'll hear lots of ads screaming ""two dollars over dealer invoice!!!"" Sounds like a real deal, huh? No. You know what the ""dealer invoice"" (also called factory invoice) is? It's a piece of paper with numbers on it that the factory sends the dealer. What do the numbers signify? Absolutely nothing. It's a marketing gimmick that the salesman can wave in your face to impress you. Note that nowhere on the ""invoice"" does it claim to be the real price of the car, and most ads which mention dealer invoice will end with a very fast, low voice saying something like ""invoice may not reflect actual dealer cost"". Actually, I *guarantee* it does not reflect actual dealer cost. Also, the reasonable profit for dealer is usually around three percent. Adjust according to the dealer cost of the car and any options that you want. Haggle like hell with the salesman over the cost of ""dealer prep"" and ""protection package"" (i.e. a few squirts of paint and fabric protectant). While you're at it, ask the salesman to toss in a thing or two that doesn't cost him any cash. My wife and I got a joyride in a twin-turbo Mitsubishi 3000GT when we bought our Mitsubishi mini-van. ",7 "Re: Catalog of Hard-to-Find PC Enhancements (Repost) >andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes: >> >In article jdoll@shell.portal.com (Joe Doll) wr >> >> ""The Catalog of Personal Computing Tools for Engineers and Scien- >> >> tists"" lists hardware cards and application software packages for >> >> PC/XT/AT/PS/2 class machines. Focus is on engineering and scien- >> >> tific applications of PCs, such as data acquisition/control, >> >> design automation, and data analysis and presentation. >> > >> >> If you would like a free copy, reply with your (U. S. Postal) >> >> mailing address. >> >> Don't bother - it never comes. It's a cheap trick for building a >> mailing list to sell if my junk mail flow is any indication. >> >> -andy sent his address months ago > >Perhaps we can get Portal to nuke this weasal. I never received a >catalog either. If that person doesn't respond to a growing flame, then >we can assume that we'yall look forward to lotsa junk mail. I don't want him nuked, I want him to be honest. The junk mail has been much more interesting than the promised catalog. If I'd known what I was going to get, I wouldn't have hesitated. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other folks who looked at the ad and said ""nope"" but who would be very interested in the junk mail that results. Similarly, there are people who wanted the advertised catalog who aren't happy with the junk they got instead. The folks buying the mailing lists would prefer an honest ad, and so would the people reading it. -andy -- ",6 "Krillean Photography I think that's the correct spelling.. I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly appreciated. In case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature. -- _D_I_S_C_L_A_I_M_E_R_: I can neither confirm nor deny any opinions expressed in this article directly reflect my own personal or political views and furthermore, if they did, I would not be at liberty to yield such an explanation of these alleged opinions. ",13 "Common-mode noise and small signals I have never worked with really small signals before and have a few questions about low level noise. I have noticed that the waveform synthesizer that I am using (Analogic 2020) has some relatively large common mode noise on it. I am using this synthesizer to 'null' out another transient waveform and am amplifying the difference (~200uV) several hundred times. The 2020 has about 1-3 mVp-p of common mode noise and this tends to make my measurements hard to repeat. (The noise is not quite in sync with line frequency, and on a spectrum analyzer, the main component is about 64Hz). How can I get rid of the noise? When I look at the spectrum using an HP 3582A (audio range analyzer), the noise goes away the minute I switch to 'isolation' on the input. I am guessing the anlayzer has a diff amp on the input since it will read accurately down to DC. Also, if I use a differential amplifier (IA) to solve the problem, how important is it to use one of these 'shield drivers' (an amp connected to the shield in sort of a feedback loop to remove trouble caused by different cable capacitances)? If anyone can suggest a good IC IA for use with transient signals with content from 1KHz to about 300KHz, I would appreciate it. ",12 "Re: Posted Gif of BMW R100S In article <1993Apr22.201652.17882@news.columbia.edu>, scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) wrote: > > > > Went and played w/Columbia's scanner and scanned in a bunch of > pictures of my new (to me) 1977 BMW R100S. They are, however, not > color, but 256 greyscale Gifs. Mind posting those to the euro archive? We have a directory specifically for BMWs. ftp: 134.29.65.5 (Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU) user: euro pass: spooge cd bmw get and put as you please. ==================================================== John Stafford Minnesota State University @ Winona All standard disclaimers apply. ",8 "Re: What counntries do space surveillance? I can tell you that when AMSAT launched some birds along a Spot satellite (French), that during installation of some instruments on Spot 2, there heavily armed legionaires who had a `take no prisoners' look on there faces. Spot satellites are completely capable of doing some very good on orbit surveillance. BMc -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Robert W. McGwier | n4hy@ccr-p.ida.org Center for Communications Research | Interests: amateur radio, astronomy,golf Princeton, N.J. 08520 | Asst Scoutmaster Troop 5700, Hightstown ",14 "Re: Israel: An Apartheid state. In article <1993May10.210603.17797@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes: >>>Fine. Now if your opinion isn't convincing anyone, and it's getting >>>refuted regularly by the facts (which is the case), isn't it likely that >>>your opinions need some revision? >> >>As I said, I do not want to convice anyone, so, why should my opinions >>convince anyone? >>I do not believe that my opinions are refuted by facts. > >Then you haven't been paying attention to the arguments levelled against >them. They have been, over and over again. They will be again. So far, you have presented your opinions as opposed to mine. I would hardly take them as facts. >>Maybe youy view of a dictionary is the problem here. One thing is the >>accepted meaning of a word by a dictionary, and sometimes a completely >>different thing is what that word came to mean after a long time. > >Hey, what do you think dictionaries are for? You quite obviously need >one. A good dictionary gives both, and you well know it. I could give you hundreds of words in my mother tongue (Spanish), that are comonly use and you will never find in a dictionary. Even more, I could show you a lot of meanings that words in Spanish have different from those in the dictionary. >>OK. Tell me how many people in Zionist movements define a Jew in a >>different way, and how many are who define Jew based on a religious way. > >I don't think that data exist on this directly. And guess why. Isn't it curious that we do not know how many people define in how many different ways the term Jew, which is the basis of the movement itself? So, the evidence shows that up to now, Jew, when considered in terms of Israel, the Law of Return and Jewish Nationality is defined in terms of religion and not of cultural identity, even if 80% of those defined as Jews in Isreal are not religious. > >>>>In the same way I believe that Irish have a right to nationalism but I do >>>>not support the bombing and killing of the IRA, I believe that Jews have >>>>a right to nationalism but I do not support Zionism as it is right now. >>> >>>Comparing the actions of Israel to that of the IRA is like comparing >>>those of the US to those of Chile under Pinochet (for example), with the >>>IRA in the role of Pinochet. You really need to get your history >>>straight. You also need a basic dictionary. >> >>You need to start reading before answering. >>My point was that because some movement claims to be nationalistic, it >>does not mean that I consider it to be nationalistic. I did not comapre >>Israel to the IRA. I think that you are starting to put words on my >>mouth and that is wrong. > >That is no problem. But once again you are defining Zionism as *ONE* >movement. You are implying that it is monolithic. You *KNOW* this is >not and has never been the case. That IS a problem. I am saying that I do not support Zionism as it is now. I believe that among the people in the Soviet Communist Party some might even had been inspired by noble ideals. Does that change the final results of what happened in the USSR? In the same way, even if the Zionist movement is not homogeneous, it does not matter. What matters is the result. >>I never said that Zionism is monolithic. If you are going to attribute >>me things, present the quotes where I said that. > >You don't say it directly. You implied it, and I showed explicitly >where and how you implied it. Now you're trying to wriggle out of it. >Won't wash, and you know it. I never said it directly nor indirectly. I am not talking about individuals who defined themselves as zionists here. I am sure most of them are good, honest and caring people. I am talking about the results of the Zionist Movement. I am talking about a Movement whose actions resulted in a Law of Return with a religious definition of Jew, a country that defines nationality based on religion. I am talking about something I consider a form of racism such as differenciation based on religious belief. After all, if Arabs in Israel cannot serve in the Army is becasue they were not born in the ""right"" religion. > >What you said is that ""Judaism is defined according to religious >standards."" Now this can have several different meanings, and you know >it. One of the meanings that it can have is to say that ""Only those who >are religious are defined as Jews"". Another is to say that ""Only those >who meet the religious definition of a Jew is one."" And there are >others. I'm not twisting your words. I'm trying to make you aware that >your words don't mean what you think they do. I had never heard the definition: Only those who are religious are defined as Jews. I had always seen the definition: A person is a Jew is his/her mother is/was a Jew, and if such person does not convert, although I had seen people argue about the last part. >> >>I am not talking about the debate. I am talking about how things are right >>now. When the debate is over, I'll see what happens. >>Right now, things are like they are. >>Let me ask you one thing. I understand that Israel differenciates between >>Citizenship and Nationality. Suppose M(ale) and F(emale) have a child in >>Israel. Which nationality will the child's ID show, according to each one >>of the following cases: > >Actually, it doesn't. And the citizens' rights are exactly THE SAME in >both cases, anyway. So, there is no difference between citizenship and nationality in Israel? Or what do you mean by ""Actually, it doesn't""? > >>a) F and M are both Jewish. > >Jewish > >>b) F is Jewsh and M is not. > >Jewish > >>c) F is Muslim and M is jewish. >>d) F is Christian and M is Jewish. > >It'll depend on what religion is practiced in the house. The original >law of return would still admit such a person if they were Jewish, if >memory serves. So, it follows a religious definition and not a cultural one. That is what I call a form of racism. > >>I do not know why you are so touchy. I never said that you did not support >>Palestinian self-determination. I just gave an example of hypocrisy. > >No you didn't. You had to twist the definition of the word 180 degrees >in order to do so, and everyone else knows it. I'm not being touchy. You do not need to assume the representation of ""everybody else"" to make your points. You should assume that you are just talking for yourself. About the other stuff, I still believe that the example was a valid one. It would be a hypocrisy to say that one supports nationalism for all and then support Zionism and then disregard the Palestinian's right. > >> I never >>said that someone in this net is guilty of it. It was just an example. Nothing >>more, nothing less than that. Why did you have to clarify what you think? > >Because what you gave *WAS NOT* an example. IT WAS an example of how >the definition of a word can be twisted around 180 degrees. It was an example. You are trying to justify something nobody has talked about. >>First, you should know that words have more meanings than those given in >>the dictionary. > >Oh, so now what are dictionaries for? Reference. > > >It's not nonsense. When people read what you write, they have to try to >associate a meaning to those words. Dictionaries give the meanings of >words, don't they? yes, but not all of them. A language is something that evolves all the time. > >>It seems that you cannot answer to the ideas given by others without insulting >>others. Sad. > >Not at all. What I cannot abide is utter bombast when you've been >proven completely wrong. Not really. I posted in another post the definition of Zionism. And, in this post you have showed for me what I was telling you from the begining. Zionism is a form of racism, even if most zionists are not racist in their individual and private lifes. A movement that ask for a State and National rights for a people, and then in practice, that people are defined according to religion is, for me, racist-like. > > >I never put even one syllable in your mouth. You have tried to prove >this and you failed. You did it. Next time be more careful. >Ha! There's nothing resembling fact in what you've said. I NEVER added >*ANYTHING* to what you said. Do you know the difference between opinion and fact? > > Eric S. Perlman > Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder AAP ",17 "CLINTON: Public Schedule of the President 4.5.93 THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 5, 1993 PUBLIC SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT TUESDAY, APRIL 6, 1993 11:15 AM EST PRESIDENT CLINTON DELIVERS REMARKS with Egyptian President Mubarek, the East Room, The White House Open Press FUTURE SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT APRIL 16, 1993 PRESIDENT CLINTON MEETS with Japanese Prime Minister Miyazawa, the White House APRIL 26, 1993 PRESIDENT CLINTON MEETS with Italian President Amato, the White House ",18 "Help needed in setting up NCSA Telnet w/ AppleTalk or Phonenet... Okay, I'm trying to install NCSA telnet on a couple (okay, a whole bunch) of machines. They're all true blue IBMs with either Fallon Phonenet cards or Dastar cards. (I belive those names are correct.) Well, the docs for telnet say that it'll run over an AppleTalk driver, but I've had little success. If anyone has succesfully installed Telnet w/ AppleTalk, I'd like some help with the config file for Telnet... BTW, please reply via E-mail if possible... Thanks, Jeremy -- Jeremy Zawodny | Computer Science Undergrad | Bowling Green State University ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ jzawodn@andy.bgsu.edu | Student Computer Consultant | *thrilled* OS/2 2.0 user ",3 "1.44Mb F/D WANTED Subject says it all. Please email soon. skcgoh@tartarus.uwa.edu.au ",3 "Re: X Toolkits Excerpts from netnews.comp.windows.x: 23-Apr-93 X Toolkits Paul Prescod@undergrad.m (1132) > I am getting Linux, so I will have InterViews, but I don't know how it > will look. I get the impression Andrew is from the FSF, but I don't > know what it looks like either. If you're on the internet and your site isn't sheltered from external tcp/ip traffic, you can use the Remote Andrew Demo to see what the Andrew Toolkit looks like: Remote Andrew Demo Service This network service allows you to run Andrew Toolkit applications without the overhead of obtaining or compiling the Andrew software. You need a host machine on the Internet, and you need to be running the X11 window system. A simple ""finger"" command will allow you to experience ATK applications firsthand. You'll be able to compose multimedia documents, navigate through the interactive Andrew Tour, and use the Andrew Message System to browse through CMU's three thousand bulletin boards and newsgroups. To use the Remote Andrew Demo service, simply run the following command on your machine: finger help@atk.itc.cmu.edu The service will give you further instructions. Gary Keim Andrew Consortium ",5 "Re: BATF/FBI Murders Almost Everyone in Waco Today! 4/19 In article <1r1rad$7rl@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: >In article , roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes: [The original question was about who started the fire and whether the ""madmen"" were inside or outside the compound. To which I replied on the possible sanity level of those inside and outside.] > >> According to an Australian documentary made in the year before the stand off >> began, Koresh and his followers all believed he was Christ. Koresh >> had sex with children and women married to other men in the compound. >> These were the ""perfect children"" resulting from the ""great seed"" of >> his ""magnified horn"". Ex-members describe him in ways not dissimilar >> to the way Jim Jones has been described. > >Point noted. Have you submitted YOUR faith and sex life for BATF clearance? >Better hurry; I believe the deadline was April 15. I paid my taxes. There was no reference to sex or religion on the form. The comments above and below were meant to address who might be unstable enough to keep children in a building with tear gas or start a fire. >> FBI agents have to pass rigorous psychological examinations and background >> checks. Plus, those in charge will undoubtedly have to explain their >> decisions in great detail to congress. Why would the FBI want to fulfill >> Koresh's own prophecy? > >And nevertheless, they hit all their marks and read all the scripted lines. >Well, it sure beats the hell out of me. Maybe Thoreau had a clue when he >said, ""It is impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so >ingenious."" I agree that the BATF handled the affair badly. >> >:Two of the nine who escaped the compound said the fire was deliberately set >> >:by cult members. >> > >> >Correction: The *FBI* said that two of the cult members said this; so far, >> >no one else has been able to talk to them. >> >> So, when they talk to the news reporters directly, and relate the same details, >> will you believe them? > >Believe them? I won't even RECOGNIZE them. And neither will anyone else >who doesn't know them personally. Do you believe they would put impostors before the national tv cameras? At this point, we are getting conflicting reports from the survivors. Best wait til more light is shed upon them. Of course, this is no good if you believe in eternal darkness. >-- > >cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, >OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... > -- ",16 "DXF to PCX,GIF,TIF or TGA? Does anyone know of a program for the PC that will take AutoCad DXF format files and convert them to a raster format, like PCX, GIF, etc? Thanks in advance.... ED ------------------ Ed Murashie US Mail : Beckman Instruments Inc. phone: (714) 993-8895 Diagnostic System Group fax: (714) 961-3759 200 S. Kraemer Blvd W-361 Internet: murashiea@mail.beckman.com Brea, Ca 92621 ",1 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In <1qla0g$afp@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: >In article <115565@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: >|> In article <1qi3l5$jkj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: >|> >|> >I hope an Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI, which >|> >ripped off so many small depositors among the Muslim >|> >community in the Uk and elsewhere. >|> [...deletions...] >BBCI was an example of an Islamically owned and operated bank - >what will someone bet me they weren't ""real"" Islamic owners and >operators? - and yet it actually turned out to be a long-running >and quite ruthless operation to steal money from small and often >quite naive depositors. An ""Islamic Bank"" is something which operates in a different fashion to your modern bank, as I have explained here (on another thread) before. For example, Islamic banks don't pay fixed interests on deposits, but a return on investments (which varies according to the market, and is not fixed like interest is). Islamic banks are a relatively new phenomenon in the Islamic world. There are no Islamic banks in ""the West"", including the USA, to my knowledge. I doubt if the market for them exists there -- at least not while ""Islamic banks"" are at a relatively early stage of their development as is the case now. BCCI is most certainly not an ""Islamic bank"" -- did BCCI ever pay a fixed interest rate on deposits? If the answer to this question is ""yes"", then BCCI was not an Islamic bank, as Islamic banks are specifically set up to _not_ pay or charge interest. Whether some Muslims partially owned the bank or whatever is completely irrelevant. Fred Rice darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au ",0 "Re: Abortion To: trev@netcom.com (Trevor Bauknight) From: anthony.landreneau@ozonehole.com TB>>SU>you would also outlaw abortions in rape cases? TB>>Kill the baby for the crimes of the father? If that where adopted a lot TB>>of people would die. TB>There appears to be a single part of the three necessary elements for a TB>pregnancy omitted from the above expression of your concern. The Mother. What are you trying to say? Please be more clear. TB>rape and could very well lose it in the kitchen trying to give birth? TB>That's too bad. We *must* force her to put off her personal struggle to TB>survive for nine months! Why murder the innocent Baby?"" Sometimes, TB>it's not murder...it's mercy. Spoken like a true Jugde, Jury and Executioner. Kill the baby for convenience, kill the baby, kill, kill, kill. It's time for the killing to stop. Anthony * SLMR 2.1 * What's the Difference Between an Orange? ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",19 "Re: So what is the fastest Windows video card for graphics and imaging ? In article , aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca writes... >We have heard many bad things about the ATI Ultra Plus card (mainly having >to do with its buggy Windows drivers). > >I would like to replace by ATI Graphics Ultra with a true-colour accelerated >card. I was about to buy the ATI Ultra Plus (EISA) but it has had so much >bad press that I am reconsidering. I have the ATI GRAPHICS ULTRA PRO EISA version. I must admit it has received bad press but that was due to the faulty drivers it had. Now the drivers that are available for the EISA version are the same ones as the ISA and Local Bus (v1.5 Build 59). Some people complained about problems they had with the Build 59 drivers, fortunately I couldn't duplicate them on my machine, but I did have one problem with Harvard Graphics that nobody else seemed to have. > >I would like an accelerated card > a card that does 24bit true colour at 800x600 at least > a card that does 1024x758 at 256 colours (or more) > a card that has fast polygon fills > a card that has fast bit blits > a card that has a robust windows driver > a card that has high speed non-interlaced refresh > >Any suggestions? > I wouldn't recommed the ATI for 24bit colour at 800x600, at this resolution the display will be interlaced. But at 16bit it isn't, I thought it was my monitor but it isn't, its the card (that is the only time you will get interlaced). If I come up with cards more suited for your needs I'll let you know. Amro ",1 "Apology (was: Luser!) I was shocked to see that the subject of my last rely to awesley was ""Luser!"" That was certainly not my intention. I meant to leave the subject line unchanged. I believe that the NNTP server I use at columbia must have put in that subject line in protest over problems with my header. That was rather rude of them, but beggars can't be choosers, I suppose. In any case, I didn't do it and I apologize to awesley for the apparent insult. --John L. Scott ",16 "Re: OTO, the Ancient Order of Oriental Templars Thyagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes: > ""This organization is known at the present time as the Ancient > Order of Oriental Templars. Ordo Templi Orientis. Otherwise: > The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light. > Does this organization have an official e-mail address these days? (an address for any of the SF Bay Area Lodges, e.g. Thelema would do.) 93... A.Lizard ------------------------------------------------------------------- A.Lizard Internet Addresses: alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM (preferred) PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard (bang path for above) alizard@gentoo.com (backup) PGP2.2 public key available on request ",19 "Re: Consecration and Anniversary Not to change the subject, but how was Fr. Gobbi allowed at Notre Dame? Notre Dame is an anti Catholic University. Was this allowed to show that the crackpots at Notre Dame believe in freedom of speech? I am glad that they did allow him to speak. Mike ",15 "Re: PUBLIC HEARINGS on Ballot Access, Vote Fraud and Other Issues Hmmm...intersting (and long) message, but TWICE? Well, I don't care for libertarianism, but that is a philisophical disagreement, not a tactical one. Reform of existing laws would be an awfully good idea. You wouldn't believe some of the outrageous things the guardians of our two party system do to shut out dissent. ============================================================================ David Matthew Deane (deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu) When the words fold open, it means the death of doors; even casement windows sense the danger. (Amon Liner) ",18 "Big amateur rockets I was reading Popular Science this morning and was surprised by an ad in the back. I know that a lot of the ads in the back of PS are fringe science or questionablely legal, but this one really grabbed my attention. It was from a company name ""Personal Missle, Inc."" or something like that. Anyhow, the ad stated that they'd sell rockets that were up to 20' in length and engines of sizes ""F"" to ""M"". They also said that some rockets will reach 50,000 feet. Now, aside from the obvious dangers to any amateur rocketeer using one of these beasts, isn't this illegal? I can't imagine the FAA allowing people to shoot rockets up through the flight levels of passenger planes. Not to even mention the problem of locating a rocket when it comes down. And no, I'm not going to even think of buying one. I'm not that crazy. -Paul ""mine'll do 50,000 feet and carries 50 pounds of dynamite"" Dokas -- #include #define FULL_NAME ""Paul Dokas"" #define EMAIL ""pbd@runyon.cim.cdc.com"" /* Just remember, you *WILL* die someday. */ ",14 "Who Prays/Speaks in Tongues? For those who pray in tongues, When is it appropriate for you to pray/speak in tongues and why? I just would like to gain more knowledge about this subject. ______ __ ___ ___ o __ ___ | Western Kentucky | / /__) /__ /__ / ) / /__) /__ | University | / / \ (___ (___ (__/__/ / / \ (___ | EASTEEE@WKUVX1.BITNET | ",15 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH - UPDATE <34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes: >Ah yes, I see a few liberal weenies have come out of the woodwork >to defend the burning of the children. Actually all the liberals I've seen have deplored the burning of children. I would far preferred that the Davidians had not set the fire that burned themselves and their children to death, but I don't believe that the responsibility for the fire (or the almost complete absense of attempts to escape the blaze) can be placed at the door of the Federal authorities. >Probably drooled all over themselves while watching the TV coverage. Not so. My wife got me a convenient plastic ""drip pan"" for Christmas... >Probably had a few like that in Nazi Germany, as well. Yeah, those Nazis. You know how we liberals just love those Nazis. >Oh yeah, ATF/FBI now claims, according the the media, that there are >a few survivors. The number seems to vary minute by minute. Yeah, as information trickles in... funny how that works... -- Nathan Engle Software Juggler Psychology Department Indiana University nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu nengle@silver.ucs.indiana.edu ",16 "Re: If You Were Pat Burns ... In article mhembruc@tsegw.tse.com (Mattias Hembruch) writes: >>hell is Anderson? Anderson can (in days past) get under peoples >>skin. Put a little more bluntly, Anderson has to be an asshole. >>He used to be good at it. We need him now. > >Agreed. Anderson was nowhere last night. > Well what do you expect...Burns was playing him with Krushelnyski and Baumgartner...Anderson is a finisher...unless you play him with someone to can get him the puck in a finishing position...he ain't going to do much scoring! Gerald ",10 "Re: DOS 6 vfintd.386 and Windows sys.ini Peter P. Lei (lei@rtsg.mot.com) wrote: : : Does anyone know what the vfintd.386 device is used for in windows 3.1? : It's under the [386enh] section as : device=c:\dos\vfintd.386 : I know Norton Desktop for Windows includes this file and its help file mentioned something about floppy-disk access. Jeroen -- ======================================================================== J.C.A. Gremmen Email: jeroeng@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl Gildelaan 34 Phone: 04255-3411 (No modem or fax pleez!) 5081 PH Hilvarenbeek ",2 "Re: The Mufti again? meanwhile they support the genocide of Bosnians. So why not condemn the Mufti for his Nazi leanings, and condemn all his supporters, while also condemning the similarly genocidal killing of innocents, Muslim or not, in Bosnoia-Herzegovina? Hatred and bigotry remain just that, no matter who practices them. Yaakov K. (Internet: yzkcu@cunyvm.cuny.edu) ",17 "Re: Why does US consider YIGAL ARENS to be a dangerous to humanity anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes: >In article <4815@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes: >>The readers of this forum seemed to be more interested in the contents >>of those files. >>So It will be nice if Yigal will tell us: >>1. Why do American authorities consider Yigal Arens to be dangerous? >ADL authorities seem to view a lot of people as dangerous, including >the millions of Americans of Arab ancestry. Perhaps you can answer >the question as to why the ADL maintained files and spied on ADC members >in California (and elsewhere??)? Friendly rivalry perhaps? Come on! Most if not all Arabs are sympathetic to the Palestinian war against Israel. That is why the ADL monitors Arab organizations. That is the same reason the US monitored communist organizations and Soviet nationals only a few years ago. >Perhaps Yigal is a Greenpeace member? Or the NAACP? Or a reporter? >Or a member of any of the dozens of other political organizations/ethnic >minorities/occupations that the ADL spied on. All of these groups have, in the past, associated with or been a part of anti- Israel activity or propoganda. The ADL is simply monitoring them so that if anything comes up, they won't be caught by surprise. >>2. Why does the ADL have an interest in that person ? >Paranoia? No, that is why World Trade Center bombings don't happen in Israel (aside from the fact that there is no world trade center) and why people like Zein Isa ( Palestinian whose American group planned to bow up the Israeli Embassy and ""kill many Jews."") are caught. As Mordechai Levy of the JDL said, Paranoid Jews live longer. >>3. If one does trust either the US government or the ADL what an >> additional information should he send them ? >The names of half the posters on this forum, unless they already >have them. They probably do. >>Gideon Ehrlich >-anwar Ed. ",17 "Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism In article <1qjf31$o7t@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: |> In article <1qimbe$sp@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> #In article <1qif1g$fp3@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: |> #|> In article <1qialf$p2m@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> #|> |> #|> I forget the origin of the quote, but ""I gotta use words when I talk to |> #|> you"". An atheist is one who lacks belief in gods, yes? If so, then |> #|> it's entirely plausible that an atheist could dig Lenin or Lennon to |> #|> such an extent that it might be considered ""worship"", and still be |> #|> an atheist. Anything else seems to be Newspeak. |> # |> #Ask yourself the following question. Would you regard an ardent |> #Nazi as a republican, simply because Germany no longer had a Kaiser? |> |> No, because that's based on false dichotomy. There are more options |> than you present me. And that, of course, is the point. You can't simply divide the world into atheists and non-atheists on the basis of god-belief. If all you care about is belief in a supernatural deity, and have nothing to say about behaviour, then belief in a supernatural being is your criterion. But once you start talking about behaviour, then someone's suscept- ibility to be led by bad people into doing bad things is what you are - I assume - worried about. And in that area, what you care about is whether someone is sceptical, critical and autonomous on the one hand, or gullible, excitable and easily led on the other. I would say that a tendency to worship tyrants and ideologies indicates that a person is easily led. Whether they have a worship or belief in a supernatural hero rather than an earthly one seems to me to be beside the point. jon. ",0 "Re: Moonbase race, NASA resources, why? In article keithley@apple.com (Craig Keithley) writes: >Ah, there's the rub. And a catch-22 to boot. For the purposes of a >contest, you'll probably not compete if'n you can't afford the ride to get >there. And although lower priced delivery systems might be doable, without >demand its doubtful that anyone will develop a new system... You're assuming that the low-cost delivery system has to be a separate project. But why? If you are spending hundreds of millions of dollars in hopes of winning a billion-dollar prize, it is *cheaper* to develop your own launch system, charging its entire development cost against your contest entry, than to try to do it with existing launchers. No other demand is necessary. >> Any plan for doing >> sustained lunar exploration using existing launch systems is wasting >> money in a big way. > >This depends on the how soon the new launch system comes on line. In other >words, perhaps a great deal of worthwhile technology (life support, >navigation, etc.) could be developed prior to a low cost launch system. >You wouldn't want to use the expensive stuff forever, but I'd hate to see >folks waiting to do anything until a low cost Mac, oops, I mean launch >system comes on line. You're assuming that it's going to take a decade to build a new launch system. But why? The Saturn V took less than six years, depending on exactly when you date its start. Pegasus took about three from project start to first flight. Before SDIO chickened out on orbital development, the target date for an orbital DC-Y flight was 1996. If you really want speed, consider that the first prototypes of the Thor missile (still in service as the core of the Delta launcher) shipped to the USAF less than 18 months after the development go-ahead. One of the most pernicious myths in this whole business is the belief that you can't build a launcher without taking ten years and spending billions of dollars. It isn't true and never was. ",14 "x86 & 680x0, How do they compare? (Also Amiga comparisson). > David_A._Schnider@bmug.org wrote: > : The real question here in my opinion is what Motorola processors running sy stem > : 7 on a MAC are comparable to what Intel processors running Windows on a PC? I > [stuff deleted] > : -David > -- > Even better than that... how does a 68000-based Amiga 2000 perform in > daily tasks compared to my 68030-based IIci. > Answer, except in a very few cases, I get my butt kicked by the Amiga. > Sure there are other considerations, but it goes to show you how > proper design from the beginning (in hardware and software) can give > you great returns. [as well as showing you that if you don't have a > marketing department to speak of, no one will care how good your system is] I've had the same experience actually. I love the Mac interface and any number of the features, but am sorely dissapointed with the speed. I use macs daily and am a Moc consultant for OSU Statistics department; I'm familiar with almost every model out there, and my experience is that both the Amiga and the Atari ST simply ""blow the Mac out of the water"" in terms of performance. At this time I would in general say that the other advantages of the Mac outweigh the advantages of the Amiga or the ST (and Falcon), but I really wish Apple would get their heads together on speed... :-((((( They could take a real lesson in muli-tasking from the Amiga OS or the MultiTOS in the Atari Falcons too :-((( > I'm still happy with my ci, but I don't understand why the performance is > so bad (comparatively). They could have done multi-tasking _properly_. > They could have done everthing else better -- but apple didn't. > (of course DOS 6 and windows 3.1 are nothin to write home about either!!) I just hope that someone comes out with a machine that does *everything* well someday. If I had my choice, I would go with Mac in most aspects, but add the speed and superior Multi-Tasking of the other platforms. As for the original topic; Trying to compare *just the chip* in a machine seems almost worthless. A fast 386 with a wiz-bang graphics accelerator will be faster in productivity for many applications than a even a stock Quadra. Add a graphics accelerator to a 486 and you *really fly*. Of course, add one the the Quadra and then you're blowing the 486 away... etc... > Oh well, y'all got $2.00 worth for the price of $0.02 I think mine was only worth $0.01....... ----------------------------------------------------------------------> |-! -David Butler- dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ""This is not a novel to be tossed away lightly; it should be thrown with great force."" -Dorothy Parker ",4 "BRAKE ROTORS..CROSS DRILLING...1-312-702-8323 ",8 "Re: Gun Control (was Re: We're Mad as Hell at the TV News) hambidge@bms.com wrote: : In article , manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve Manes) writes: : >: Rate := per capita rate. The UK is more dangerous. : >: Though you may be less likely to be killed by a handgun, the average : >: individual citizen in the UK is twice as likely to be killed : >: by whatever means as the average Swiss. Would you feel any better : >: about being killed by means other than a handgun? I wouldn't. : : >What an absurd argument. Switzerland is one-fifth the size of the : >UK with one-eigth as many people therefore at any given point on : >Swiss soil you are more likely to be crow bait. More importantly, : >you are 4x as likely to be killed by the next stranger approaching : >you on a Swiss street than in the UK. : You are betraying your lack of understanding about RATE versus TOTAL : NUMBER. Rates are expressed, often, as #/100,000 population. : Therefore, if a place had 10 deaths and a population of 100,000, the : rate would be 10/100,000. A place that had 50 deaths and a population : of 1,000,000 would hav a rate of 5/100,000. The former has a higher : rate, the latter a higher total. You are less likely to die in the : latter. Simple enuff? For chrissakes, take out your calculator and work out the numbers. Here... I've preformatted them for you to make it easier: handgun homicides/population ---------------------------- Switzerland : 24 / 6,350,000 UK : 8 / 55,670,000 ... and then tell me again how Switzerland is safer with a more liberal handgun law than the UK is without...by RATE or TOTAL NUMBER. Your choice. -- Stephen Manes manes@magpie.linknet.com Manes and Associates New York, NY, USA =o&>o ",16 "Re: VFR + ST11 Owners get hidden feature In article , daved@world.std.com (Dave T Dorfman) writes... ]I was enjoying lunch this saturday at foodies in Milford NH with an assortment ]of other nedod folks when Dean Cookson ( yes he has not left the ]country, yet) mentioned that the wiring diagram of the VFR750 ]shows that the light switch is a three position switch. ]high beam ]low beam ]Both beams ]Well the actual ergonomics of the switch make it appear to be a ]2 position switch, but sure enough as Deam expected , when ]you balance the toggle switch in the center position both the high ]and low beams go on. ]This provides a very nice light coverage of the road. ]This is true for the St11 and the VFR750 and I would expect for any ]other late model Honda with the standard two position light switch. ]Thanks to Dean for reading the schematics, try it you'll like it. Be a bit careful doing this; I used to balance the switch on my GS550B avec Cibie' H4 insert so that both beams were on. I eventually fried the main ignition switch, as it wasn't designed to pass that sort of current. Ivan Reid, Paul Scherrer Institute, CH. ivan@cvax.psi.ch GSX600F, RG250WD. SI=2.66 ""You Porsche. Me pass!"" DoD #484 ",8 "Historical and Traditional Armenian Barbarism and Fascism. Source: ""Men Are Like That"" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). (Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people) p. 204 (first paragraph). ""I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a year old."" Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: If Drugs Should Be Legalized, How? In article <1qrohrINNipe@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (Wil liam December Starr) writes: > >In article <1993Apr18.003848.21571@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, >rscharfy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ryan C Scharfy) said: > >>>> However, legalizing it and just sticking some drugs in gas stations to >>>> be bought like cigarettes is just plain silly. [Ryan C Scharfy] >>> >>> Or, the government could adopt the radical and probably unAmerican >>> idea that citizens are free to live their lives as they wish, and >>> simply decriminalize cocaine, marijuana, heroin, LSD, etc. Please >>> explain why the idea of allowing recreational drugs to be ""bought like >>> cigarettes"" is ""just plain silly."" After all, it works just fine for >>> nicotine... [wdstarr] >> >> Yeah, Cancer is pretty cool, isn't it. > >Ryan, please explain how the ""coolness"" or lack thereof of cancer is >relevant to a discussion of the legalization of currently illegal >recreational drugs. For that matter, please explain how it's even >relevant to a discussion of currently _legal_ recreational drugs such as >tobacco. [wdstarr] You said it worked so well with tobacco. I was being fascisious(I can't spell worth a damn) Look, this is getting ridiculous, first, I think tobacco should be legal. Anybody who can't see the difference between tobacco and marijuana has got to be high. Ryan ",18 "Re: My Gun is like my.... In article <1993Apr16.194708.13273@vax.oxford.ac.uk> jaj@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >What all you turkey pro-pistol and automatic weapons fanatics don't seem to >realize is that the rest of us *laugh* at you. You don't make me angry, you >just make me chuckle - I remeber being in Bellingham, Washington and seeing a >... You consider laughing at others civilized behavior? What was I supposed to learn from your article? Treat people like dogs? I am not impressed by your attitude. ",16 "Re: Antihistamine for sleep aid I'm interested in this from the other angle: what antihistamine can I take at bedtime for relief of allergies, with the assurance that its sedative effect will have completely worn off by the next morning, but preferably with the anti-allergy effect lasting longer? I'm thinking mainly of OTC products. Which has the least duration of sedative action: Benadryl, Chlor-Trimeton, or what? Note that I'm asking about duration, not intensity. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",13 "My predictions Smythe Division --------------- Vancouver vs. Winnipeg - Jets in 7 The Jets have played the Canucks tough the last three games. Everyone is healthy for the Jets. I'm biased. :) Calgary vs. Los Angeles - Flames in 6 From what I have seen, the Kings have looked flat lately. I just can't see them getting by the Flames. Final- Jets in 6. The Jets haven't lost to the Flames in '93. They will, but it will be a close series that will come down to how well Roberts has recovered. I don't think he'll be 100%, and while it will help, it won't be enough. Norris Division --------------- Chicago vs. St. Louis/Minnesota Chicago in 6 against the Blues, 7 against the Stars. Detroit vs. Toronto - Wings in 6. The Wings should be able to shutdown Gilmour and Andreychuk. Chelvadae is more experienced than Potvin. Final - Hawks in 7. Brutal series. Probert and Chelios will go at it. Belfour is better than Chelvadae, IMHO. Conference Final - Hawks in 6. It hurts, but the Hawks are more experienced, and that will carry them through to the final. Prince of Wales Conference -------------------------- Adams Division -------------- Boston vs. Buffalo - Bruins in 6. B's can check, Juneau is darn good, and Neely. The Sabres rely too much on Lafontaine and Mogilny. Quebec vs. Montreal - Montreal in 7. Classic battle, the inexperience will hurt the Nords, this year. Final - Bruins in 5. Habs will be hurting from their series with the Nords, and Boston has been able to control the scorers on the Habs. Patrick Division ---------------- Pittsburgh vs Islanders/Devils - Pens in 5. One word. Mario. Washington vs. Devils/Islanders - Caps in 6 / Devils in 7. I think the Caps can beat the Isles, but not the Devils. Tabaracci has been strong in goal, and if he plays like last year, he could carry the team. It doesn't matter, though. Final - Pens in 5. Two more words. Stevens. Jagr. Cup Final - Pens in 6. Three last words. Tocchet. Murphy. Barrasso. The only thing I don't like about this is that the Pens woofers are going to be out in full force again. (I don't mean the regular Penguin fans...it's just like the bunch around here that if these predictions are true will post like nuts while the Jets are winning, but we won't hear from again when they lose.) (Oh yeah...next year's Cup prediction...Jets in 7 over the Nords.) Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4 (please route through 348/700) Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores! The Jets win the Cup! The Jets win the Cup! Essensa for Vezina! Housley for Norris! Sel{nne for Calder! ",10 "cure for dry skin? Hi all, My skin is very dry in general. But the most serious part is located from knees down. The skin there looks like segmented. The segmentation actually happens beneath the skin. I would like to know if there is any cure for this. At the supermarkets or pharmacies, there are quite a lot of stuffs for dry skins, but what to chose? Thanks in advance for all advices and hints. Reply by email preferred. Alex ",13 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <930419.104739.2t8.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes: >mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes: >>In article <30136@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >>>Atoms are not objective. They aren't even real. What scientists call >>>an atom is nothing more than a mathematical model that describes >>>certain physical, observable properties of our surroundings. All >>>of which is subjective. >> >> This deserves framing. It really does. ""[Atoms] aren't even real."" >> >> Tell me then, those atoms we have seen with electron microscopes are >> atoms now, so what are they? Figments of our imaginations? The >> evidence that atoms are real is overwhelming, but I won't bother with >> most evidence at the moment. > >HA HA HA! > >Sorry, but having studied cell biology, I have to say that ""I can see it >through an electron microscope, THEREFORE it is real"" is a laughable >statement. > [...stuff deleted...] Thank you. I thought I was in the twilight zone for a moment. It still amazes me that many people with science backgrounds still confuse the models and observables with what even they would call the real world. -jim halat In article <30142@ursa.bear.com>, halat@panther.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >In article <1993Apr17.153653.26206@Princeton.EDU>, datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper) writes: > >>You were a liberal arts major, weren'tcha? >> >>Guess you never saw that photo of the smallest logo in the world-- >>""IBM"" made with noble gas atoms (krypton? xenon? I forget the >>specifics). >> >>Atoms, trees, electrons are all independently observable and >>verifiable. Morals aren't. See the difference? > > >Just for the record ( not that any kind of information would be >likely to affect your thinking ) I have an MSEE -- focus in >Electromagnetics -- from Penn. > >A photo of the smallest logo in the world does not an atom make. >What was observed is something we can measure that matches what >the mathematical model we call an atom had predicted. > >Much in the same way that we need BOTH a particle model and a >wave model for light, the atomic model is a mathematical >representation of physical phenomena. A model that can and >probably will continue to change over time. That makes it >subjective (the model that is). However, the model gives us an >objective way to talk about the physical world. > >To put it another way, the Quantum Mechanical model of the atom >allows for discussion of the atom that will give repeatable and >unambiguous results, which is objective. However, as Bohr and >Einstein duked it out mid-century, the interpretation of >those reapeatable, observable measurements is quite subjective. >Bohr said that the observable randomness of atomic motion was >inherent in the nature of the universe. Einstein said particle >motion was deterministic, but it was our measurement shortcomings >that introduced the randomness. They were talking about the >EXACT same results, though. > >-jim halat ",0 "Re: Concerning God's Morality (long) In article <1993Apr5.084042.822@batman.bmd.trw.com>, jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com responds to a lot of grief given to him >In article <1993Apr3.095220.24632@leland.Stanford.EDU>, >galahad@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Compton) a.k.a. ""The Sagemaster"" [ . . .] >But then I ask, So? Where is this relevant to my discussion in >answering John's question of why? Why are there genetic diseases, >and why are there so many bacterial and viral diseases which require >babies to develop antibodies. Is it God's fault? (the original >question) -- I say no, it is not. Most of Scotty's followup *was* irrelevant to the original question, but this is not unusual, as threads often quickly evolve away from the original topic. What I could not understand is why Jim spent so much time responding to what he regarded as irrelevancies. [ . . . ] >> May I ask, where is this 'collective' bullcrap coming from? [ . . . ] > >By ""collective"" I was referring to the idea that God works with >humanity on two levels, individually and collectively. If mankind >as a whole decides to undertake a certain action (the majority of >mankind), Well, I guess hypothetical Adam was ""the majority of mankind"" seeing how he was the ONLY man at the time. >then God will allow the consequences of that action to >affect mankind as a whole. If you didn't understand that, then I >apologize for not using one and two syllable words in my discussion. I understand what you mean by ""collective,"" but I think it is an insane perversion of justice. What sort of judge would punish the descendants for a crime committed by their ancestor? >If you want to be sure that I read your post and to provide a >response, send a copy to Jim_Brown@oz.bmd.trw.com. I can't read >a.a. every day, and some posts slip by. Thanks. Well, I must admit that you probably read a.a. more often than I read the Bible these days. But you missed a couple of good followups to your post. I'm sending you a personal copy of my followup which I hope you will respond to publically in a.a. John The Sageless ",0 "Re: Need advice for riding with someone on pillion In article rwert@well.sf.ca.us (Bob Wert) writes: I need some advice on having someone ride pillion with me on my 750 Ninja. This will be the the first time I've taken anyone for an extended ride (read: farther than around the block :-). We'll be riding some twisty, fairly bumpy roads (the Mines Road-Mt.Hamilton Loop for you SF Bay Areans). Communication: work out your own system. Or just slow down and holler back every once in a while. At reasonable speeds, even on my under-muffled Magna, we can hear each other. It's only above, say, 45 MPH that you can't really communicate. Balance: New passengers are a real pain, because you never know how they're going to react to steering. Some people catch on immediately and lean with me. Others are completely skittish about the leaning thing, and keep their bodies perpendicular to the horizon. This is a pain while turning, but manageable. The WORST are the passengers who stay perpendicular to the horizon, then REMEMBER in the middle of a turn and WHIP AROUND until they're in the `correct' position. This always screws up the line I've picked out. Here's my personal checklist of things to tell passengers: - attire: helmet, long pants, boots/heavy shoes, jacket. - Keep feet on pegs at all times, unless I say otherwise. Do not get on/off unless I say you can. (I've had people try to dismount in traffic, just as I'm pulling in to a parking space!) - Muffler gets HOT! ('Nuff said) - We get *GOOD* traction. We're not going to fall over. (Many first-time riders are surprised by how tightly you can turn!) - Turn dynamics: sit so that you feel like you're sitting upright and we're going straight. Trust your butt, not your eyes -- if you're confused, close your eyes for a couple of turns to get the feel of it. Or just hug me tight. - Please, no sudden moves -- shift your weight as desired, but be gradual, so I can compensate. - Your faceplate is yours to open/close as desired. - Trust is essential. Trust the driver (me) to do the right thing -- I've driven many miles on this thing, and know how to operate it. Enjoy the ride. (This is important to stress. For example, one of my first-time passwngers seemed to watch the speedo like a hawk: I drove her to the beach down 84, and whever we topped 35 mph, she'd holler, ""SLOW DOWN! I'M SCARED"" I humored her for a while, then simply covered the speedometer with the spare piece of duct tape I keep stuck to the top of the cluster. Problem solved: she watched the scenery instead of the instruments, and had a much better time. Based on her experience driving a Lincoln Continental, she was unwilling to trust my ability to choose a safe speed for the bike.) Usually I'll point out the controls, engine, transmission, brakes, tires, etc. and discuss motorcycle physics a bit too for first-timers. Helps calm their nerves, and gives the bike a chance to warm up. Watch out for gravel on the Mt. Hamilton road: there were lots of little mudslides after the last big rain; by now, many of the blind corners will be nicely covered with a carpet of little, round, nearly invisible stones. It doesn't help build trust when you slide out on a blind corner, on the first trip! Good luck -- have fun! -- DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK! ",8 "Graphic Formats I am writing some utilies to convert Regis and Tektonic esacpe sequences into some useful formats. I would rather not have to goto a bitmap format. I can convert them to Window Meta FIles easily enough, but I would rather convert them to Corel Draw, .CDR, or MS Power Point, .PPT, files. Microsoft would not give me the format. I was wondering if anybody out there knows the formats for these two applications. ",1 "Oops. SIlly me. Sorry. My friend's address who wants the faq and info is jjsulliv@colby.edu Sorry about that folks. Jody -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jody Rebecca Colby College Majors: History/Sociology Class o' '94 E-Mail: jrgould@colby.edu samuel@paul.rutgers.edu Fantasy, Music, Colors, and Animals will lead this society out of oppression. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Spreading Christianity (Re: Christian Extremist Kills Doctor) In article , ""David R. Sacco"" writes: > Not to be too snide about it, but I think this Christianity must > be a very convenient religion, very maliable and suitable for > any occassion since it seems one can take it any way one wants > to go with it and follow whichever bits one pleases and > reinterpret the bits that don't match with one's desires. It > is, in fact, so convenient that, were I capable of believing > in a god, I might consider going for some brand of Christianity. > The only difficulty left then, of course, is picking which sect > to join. There are just so many. > > Yes, Christianity is convenient. Following the teachings of Jesus > Christ and the Ten Commandments is convenient. Trying to love in a > hateful world is convenient. Turning the other cheek is convenient. So > convenient that it is burdensome at times. Your last remark is a contradiction, but I'll let that pass. I was addressing the notion of the Great Commission, which you deleted in order to provide us with dull little homilies. Thank you, Bing Crosby. Now you go right on back to sleep and mommy and daddy will tuck you in later. Oh, and how convenient his bible must have been to Michael Griffin, how convenient his Christianity. ""Well, I'll just skip the bit about not murdering people and loving the sinner and hating the sin and all that other stuff for now and concentrate on the part where it says that if someone is doing something wrong, you should shoot him in the back several times as he tries to hobble away on his crutches."" I'll leave the ""convert or die"" program of the missionaries and their military escorts in the Americas for Nadja to explain as she knows much more about it than I. Must be awfully convenient, by the way, to offer platitudes as you have done, David, rather than addressing the arguments. Dean Kaflowitz ",19 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card In article <1qvff6INN9p4@clem.handheld.com>, jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) says: > >In article <93109.172450U28037@uicvm.uic.edu> Jason Kratz >[...] > >> It is kind of funny though how you were the only one who picked up >> the part about my sister being a social worker and keeping me up to date on >the >> gang thing. Everyone else seemed to just skim by that part. >> >> Jason > > >I guess that just means ""Everyone else"" was mistaken? > >Jim > >jmd@handheld.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- Actually not Jim. I just said that everyone else seemed to have skimmed by that part and not mentioned it. You can get whatever meaning you want from it. Jason ",16 "Re: Wings will win gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg Ballentine) writes: >All of this is fine. I never said that Murray was a bad GM. I merely said >that he isn't the best GM in hockey- or even a contender for that honor. >If Murray is as great as you claim- the Wings would have won the Stanley Cup >by now- probably more than once. If he was as great a GM as you claim I think you missed one of my points there. It takes *more* than a great GM to win a stanley cup, even once. Some of the guys on the list you gave earlier never won one. I agree that you and I could probably argue back and forth for days to no avail about who is the best GM in hockey- that is a matter of opinion, and who is to say my opinion is any better than yours or yours than mine? But the point of my *original* original post (if not well stated) was that Murray has the GM abilities but not the coaching abilities. Which leads to below: >and he was as poor a coach as you claim- he would have been intelligent >enough to hire the coach to push the team to the next level of success. I think at this point there's a personal, emotional element involved here which transcends Murray's logical thought. As outsiders, it's fine for us to say, ""He should hire a different coach."" In fact, he has talked about doing so in the past. But, the press (here in Detroit, at least) has so built up this business about Murray never getting past the second round of the playoffs as a coach, that I think he has taken it upon himself to prove to the world that he *is* capable of coaching a team past the second round. He needs to, as the papers say, ""get that monkey off his back."" So it becomes a matter not of intelligence, but of pride. Is it foolish to let pride stand in the way of sound logic? Perhaps, but we're all a little that way from time to time. I think eventually he'll step down from behind the bench and concentrate on his GM duties, and the team will improve as a result. I think his coaching duties take away time he might have otherwise spent on GM work. In that sense, once he steps down as coach, we'll see how good of a GM he really is. >But Murray is an average (unspectacular) NHL coach and a pretty good GM >so none of this is true anyway. I may not agree with everything you've said, but it's been fun discussing it with you. >Gregmeister --Randy ",10 "Re: Diamond Products Boycot? In article <1993Apr23.072854.21873@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, penev@rockefeller.edu (Penio Penev) writes: > On Fri, 23 Apr 1993 07:01:17 GMT Markfried Fellensiek (ins413j@mdw056.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote: > > | If you're considering buying a system, with a view to using > | it to run Unix (Linux, bsd, etc...) or some other special software, > | there is a good chance that it WILL NOT WORK with the Diamond cards. > | This is due to Diamond's propriety attitude to it's hardware: > | it's impossible to get free information from them about their chips > | (specifically their dot-clocks) without paying, and signing non-disclosure > | agreements. > > | This made it impossible for the Free Software Foundation to provide > | X-Windows compatibility with these cards, as diamond didn't want to > | divulge programming neccessities. I don't think the two main free X systems ( XS3 and XFree86 ) are part of the FSF as such. > > Considering the above, and some postings about Diamond's bad attitute > towars customers, I ordered and ActixGE+ VLB 2M card. It will arive > these days. Does anyone know of an e-mail address for Diamond to which Penio could forward his purchase information? > > -- > Penio Penev x7423 (212)327-7423 (w) Internet: penev@venezia.rockefeller.edu > > Disclaimer: All oppinions are mine. Guy -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guy Dawson - Hoskyns Group Plc. guyd@hoskyns.co.uk Tel Hoskyns UK - 71 251 2128 guyd@austin.ibm.com Tel IBM Austin USA - 512 838 3377 ",3 "Final Solution for Gaza ? From: Center for Policy Research Subject: Final Solution for Gaza ? Final Solution for the Gaza ghetto ? ------------------------------------ While Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they repress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and attempt to starve the Gazans. The Gaza strip, this tiny area of land with the highest population density in the world, has been cut off from the world for weeks. The Israeli occupier has decided to punish the whole population of Gaza, some 700.000 people, by denying them the right to leave the strip and seek work in Israel. While Polish non-Jews risked their lives to save Jews from the Ghetto, no Israeli Jew is known to have risked his life to help the Gazan resistance. The only help given to Gazans by Israeli Jews, only dozens of people, is humanitarian assistance. The right of the Gazan population to resist occupation is recognized in international law and by any person with a sense of justice. A population denied basic human rights is entitled to rise up against its tormentors. As is known, the Israeli regime is considering Gazans unworthy of Israeli citizenship and equal rights in Israel, although they are considered worthy to do the dirty work in Israeli hotels, shops and fields. Many Gazans are born in towns and villages located in Israel. They may not live there, for these areas are reserved for the Master Race. The Nazi regime accorded to the residents of the Warsaw ghetto the right to self- administration. They selected Jews to pacify the occupied population and preventing any form of resistance. Some Jewish collaborators were killed. Israel also wishes to rule over Gaza through Arab collaborators. As Israel denies Gazans the only two options which are compatible with basic human rights and international law, that of becoming Israeli citizens with full rights or respecting their right for self-determination, it must be concluded that the Israeli Jewish society does not consider Gazans full human beings. This attitude is consistent with the attitude of the Nazis towards Jews. The current policies by the Israeli government of cutting off Gaza are consistent with the wish publicly expressed by Prime Mininister Yitzhak Rabin that 'Gaza sink into the sea'. One is led to ask oneself whether Israeli leaders entertain still more sinister goals towards the Gazans ? Whether they have some Final Solution up their sleeve ? I urge all those who have slight human compassion to do whatever they can to help the Gazans regain their full human, civil and political rights, to which they are entitled as human beings. Elias Davidsson Iceland From elias@ismennt.is Fri Apr 23 02:30:21 1993 Received: from isgate.is by igc.apc.org (4.1/Revision: 1.77 ) id AA00761; Fri, 23 Apr 93 02:30:13 PDT Received: from rvik.ismennt.is by isgate.is (5.65c8/ISnet/14-10-91); Fri, 23 Apr 1993 09:29:41 GMT Received: by rvik.ismennt.is (16.8/ISnet/11-02-92); Fri, 23 Apr 93 09:30:23 GMT From: elias@ismennt.is (Elias Davidsson) Message-Id: <9304230930.AA11852@rvik.ismennt.is> Subject: no subject (file transmission) To: cpr@igc.org Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 9:30:22 GMT X-Charset: ASCII X-Char-Esc: 29 Status: RO Final Solution for the Gaza ghetto ? ------------------------------------ While Israeli Jews fete the uprising of the Warsaw ghetto, they repress by violent means the uprising of the Gaza ghetto and attempt to starve the Gazans. The Gaza strip, this tiny area of land with the highest population density in the world, has been cut off from the world for weeks. The Israeli occupier has decided to punish the whole population of Gaza, some 700.000 people, by denying them the right to leave the strip and seek work in Israel. While Polish non-Jews risked their lives to save Jews from the Ghetto, no Israeli Jew is known to have risked his life to help the Gazan resistance. The only help given to Gazans by Israeli Jews, only dozens of people, is humanitarian assistance. The right of the Gazan population to resist occupation is recognized in international law and by any person with a sense of justice. A population denied basic human rights is entitled to rise up against its tormentors. As is known, the Israeli regime is considering Gazans unworthy of Israeli citizenship and equal rights in Israel, although they are considered worthy to do the dirty work in Israeli hotels, shops and fields. Many Gazans are born in towns and villages located in Israel. They may not live there, for these areas are reserved for the Master Race. The Nazi regime accorded to the residents of the Warsaw ghetto the right to self- administration. They selected Jews to pacify the occupied population and preventing any form of resistance. Some Jewish collaborators were killed. Israel also wishes to rule over Gaza through Arab collaborators. As Israel denies Gazans the only two options which are compatible with basic human rights and international law, that of becoming Israeli citizens with full rights or respecting their right for self-determination, it must be concluded that the Israeli Jewish society does not consider Gazans full human beings. This attitude is consistent with the attitude of the Nazis towards Jews. The current policies by the Israeli government of cutting off Gaza are consistent with the wish publicly expressed by Prime Mininister Yitzhak Rabin that 'Gaza sink into the sea'. One is led to ask oneself whether Israeli leaders entertain still more sinister goals towards the Gazans ? Whether they have some Final Solution up their sleeve ? I urge all those who have slight human compassion to do whatever they can to help the Gazans regain their full human, civil and political rights, to which they are entitled as human beings. Elias Davidsson Iceland ",17 "Re: Boom! Dog attack! azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) writes: >Better still, reverse this sequence, then hit the bugger under accelleration >(to stabilise yourself). I hate things that attack me. >If the dog thinks you have run away, it has established dominance over >these funny noisy sheep things, and will attack every bike that comes >along for the fun of it. If you can hurt the bugger, it learns that it >is below bikes in the peck order, and you may have saved the life of a >future biker, whose evasive action to avoid the dog might otherwise put >him under a truck. Never avoid a dog for the dog's sake, only you're own. I hate to admit this but there does seem to be some sort of twisted logic to this approach. It's the bikers against the world and the dogs are just another worthless adversary. So remember to wear at least calf height leather boots, ( in case the dog gets lucky and sinks his teeth into your attacking foot) and go for the gusto, If that dog doesn't retreat from the street with his tail between his legs next time you see it then you really haven't done your bit for all your fellow bikers. >This also applies in cages. Sorry I can't go this far, A dog against and armored cage just doesn't seem like a fair fight. >If the dog is out of control, it is a menace to all road users, and no >compunction should be felt if ensuring your safety means the destruction of >it's. After all, it is forcing the game, not you. after all it is a dog eat dog world Dave ",8 "Certainty and Arrogance Dean Velasco quoted a letter from James M Stowell, president of Moody Bible Institute: > The other day, I was at the dry cleaner and the radio was playing. > It caught my attention because a talk show guest was criticizing > evangelical Christians, saying we believe in absolutes and think we > are the only ones who know what the absolutes are. > We affirm the absolutes of Scripture, not because we are arrogant > moralists, but because we believe in God who is truth, who has revealed > His truth in His Word, and therefore we hold as precious the strategic > importance of those absolutes."" There has been a lot of discussion, but so far nobody seems to have hit on exactly what the criticism of ""arrogance"" is aimed at. The arrogance being attacked is that we ""think we are the only ones who know what the absolutes are"". In short, many evangelicals claim that they are infallible on the matter of religious texts. In particular, the problem is one of epistemology. As a shorthand, you can think of epistemology as ""how do you know?"" That question, it turns out, is a very troubling one. The problem with `absolute certainty' is that, at the bottom, at least some of the thinking goes on inside your own head. Unless you can be certain that everything which happens in your head is infallible, the reasoning you did to discover a source of truth is in question. And that means you do NOT have absolute justification for your source of authority -- which means you do NOT have absolute certainty. Let's take the specific example of Biblical Inerrancy, and a fictional Inerrantist named Zeke. (The following arguments applies to the idea of Papal Infallibility, too.) Zeke has, we presume, spent some time studying the Bible, and history, and several other topics. He has concluded, based on all these studies (and possibly some religious experiences) that the Bible is a source of Absolute Truth. He may be correct; but even if he is, he cannot be certain that he is correct. His conclusion depends on how well he studied history -- he may have made mistakes, and the references he used may have contained mistakes. His conclusion depends on how well he studied the Bible -- he may have made mistakes. His conclusion depends on his own reasoning -- and he may have made mistakes. (Noticing a common thread yet? 8-) Everything about his study of the world that he did -- everything that happened in his own head -- is limited by his own thinking. No matter what he does to try and cover his mistakes, he can never be certain of his own infallibility. As long as ANY PART of the belief is based on his own reasoning, that belief cannot be considered ""absolutely certain"". Zeke believes that he has found a source of absolute truth -- but that belief is only as good as the quality of the search he made for it. Unless he can say that his own reasoning is flawless, his conclusions are in doubt. Any belief that you hold about absolute sources of truth depends in part on your own thinking -- there is no way out of the loop. Only an infallible thinker can have absolute certainty in all his beliefs. This is easy to demonstrate. Let's go back to our shorthand method of doing epistemology: ""how do you know?"" Imagine a hypothetical discussion: A: The Bible is a source of absolute truth. B: How do you know? A: I studied history and the Bible and religious writings and church teachings and came to this conclusion. B: How do you know you studied history correctly? A: Well, I double-checked everything. B: How do you know you double-checked correctly? A: Well, I compared my answers with some smart people and we agreed. B: Just because some smart guy believes something that doesn't mean it is true. How do you know THEY studied it correctly? A: ... And, as you see, B will eventually get A to the point where he has to say ""I can't prove that there are no mistakes"" -- and as long as you may have made a mistake, then you cannot be ABSOLUTELY certain. There is no way out of the loop. This is where the ""arrogance of Christians"" arises: many people believe that their own personal research can give them absolute certainty about the doctrines of Christianity -- they are implicitly claiming that they are infallible, and that there is no possibility of mistake. Claiming that you CANNOT have made a mistake, and that your thinking has led you to a flawless conclusion, is pretty arrogant. * People who want to see this argument explained in great detail should try to find _The Infallibility of the Church_, by George Salmon. He is attacking the idea that the Pope can be knowably infallible (and he does so very well), but the general argument applies equally well to the idea that the Bible is knowably Inerrant. Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu ""At the core of all well-founded belief, lies belief that is unfounded."" -- Ludwig Wittgenstein ",15 "Re: Christians that are not church members In article gchin@ssf.Eng.Sun.COM writes: >Over the years, I have met Christians who are not associated with >any local church and are not members of any local church. This is >an issue that may be very personal, but is important. What does >the Bible say about this and how can we encourage our friends with >regard to this issue? This brings up an interesting subject that has not been discussed much, and probably has not been studied much. As some of you may be aware, I've posted a lot of articles lately on personality typing (of which the MBTI is a test vehicle). To come up to speed, just read 'alt.psychology.personality' and/or ask for by personality type summary file. One observation is that people have significantly different personalities (no question on this) which seem to be essentially in-born. With respect to church attendance and participation, some people thrive on this, while other people have real difficulty with this because they prefer a more solitary and contemplative lifestyle - that is, they are de-energized if confronted with excessive closeness to outside activities and lots of people. Of course this is measured by extroversion/introversion. My impression is that many churches are totally blind to this fact, and create environments that 'scare away' many who are naturally introverted (there are many introverted characters in the Bible, btw). I know, I am quite introverted in preference, and find the 'pressure' by many churches to participate, to meet together in large groups, etc., to be very uncomfortable. Knowing what I know now, these churches have been overly influenced by highly extroverted people who thrive on this sort of thing. (BTW, there's nothing wrong with either extroversion or introversion, both preferences have their place in the Body). Maybe I should define extrovert/introvert more carefully since these words are usually not used correctly in our culture. The extrovert/introvert scale is a measure of how a person is energized. The following is excerpted from my summary: 1. Energizing - How a person is energized: Extroversion (E)- Preference for drawing energy from the outside world of people, activities or things. Introversion (I)- Preference for drawing energy from one's internal world of ideas, emotions, or impressions. Hopefully this will elicit further discussion as to how churches can structure themselves to meet the real needs of the people who comprise the Body of Christ, instead of trying to change people's personalities to fit them into a particular framework. I'm sure there are other aspects of how churches have not properly understood personality variances among their members to the detriment of all. Jon Noring -- Charter Member --->>> INFJ Club. If you're dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I'll send info. ============================================================================= | Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | | | JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE | | 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World's Best! | | Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | | ============================================================================= Who are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That's where the action is. ",15 "Re: Diamond SS24X, Win 3.1, Mouse cursor In article <1993Apr16.145322.16378@nlm.nih.gov>, dabl2@nlm.nih.gov (Don A.B. Lindbergh) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.204845.24939@nlm.nih.gov> dabl2@nlm.nih.gov (Don A.B. Lindbergh) writes: >> >>Anybody seen mouse cursor distortion running the Diamond 1024x768x256 driver? >>Sorry, don't know the version of the driver (no indication in the menus) but it's a recently >>delivered Gateway system. Am going to try the latest drivers from Diamond BBS but wondered >>if anyone else had seen this. >> > >As a followup, this is a co-worker's machine. He has the latest 2.03 drivers. >It only happens using the 1024x768x256 driver. Sometimes it takes a minute >or so for the cursor to wig out, but it eventually does in this mode. I >susect something is stepping on memory the video card wants. I excluded >a000-c7ff in the EMM386 line and in system.ini The problem persisted. >Perhaps it is something specific to the Gateway machine or it's components. >It is a 66mhz DX/2 Eisa bus with an Ultrastore (24xx?) controller. Ah well, >I was hoping this was some kind of 'known problem' or somebody had seen it >before. Perhaps a call to Gateway is in order, but I do find folks here >usually are far more in the know. > >--Don Lindbergh >dabl2@lhc.nlm.nih.gov I haven't seen this particular problem, but another place you might check is if your BIOS is doing video shadowing--Diamond wants that turned off. That might cause a memory conflict as well. Good luck. Hope this helps, Chris Loschen, Brandeis U. ",2 "Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long) Mark McCullough (mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu) wrote: : This figure, is far below all the other figures I have seen. If it : is indeed accurate, then how do you explain the discrepancy between : that figure, and other figures from international organizations? : Most figures I have seen place the hit ratio close to 70%, which is : still far higher than your 35%. Or does your figure say a bomb : missed if the plane took off with it, and the bomb never hit the target, : regardless of whether or not the bomb was dropped? Such methods : are used all the time to lie with statistics. Answering the last sentence, claimed that they had a success rate of 80% without initially explaining, until pressed, that this meant that 80% of the aircraft came back having dropped their bombs somewhere, regardless' of whether they had hit the intended target, or indeed anything al all. Aaron Turner ",0 "Re: GUI Study In article <1993Apr2.203400.15357@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c2xjfa@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (James F Allman III) writes: > >> >> > I'm doing a study on what the following type of users would like to >> > have on a Unix Manager. Basically I'm looking for the Unix commands >> > and features on Motif window interface which will help the different >> > type of users make use of Unix. >> ... >> Personally, I can't stand Motif. I also can't stand GUI Command Line! >> interfaces for things like access to the commands I know Command Line! >> and love. I think you'll find that experience [sic] users Command Line! >> >> der Mouse >> ... >A year and a half ago I felt the same way. The I started using >gooyies. Give me the command line when something out of the ordinary >needs done, and the gooy when I am doing normal or repative work. >Note that most operations are repetative. Hackers love CLs because > ... What I like about GUI's: - The ability to view and manipulate a group of objects, files, text, directories, etc. and and manipulate them in some way such as delete, copy, paste, rename ... - The ability to have several applications / screens visible and accessable at the same time. - Being able to do a standard set of functions easily and quickly on an unfamiliar operating system. I am familiar with the command lines of several operating systems but occasionally I will have to some work on a system that I almost never use. If it has a GUI, I can usually accomplish what I want to do fairly easily, the command line on the other hand often is a long and painful experience. What I hate about GUI's: - Having to switch between the mouse and the keyboard. I guess I have a strong one-handed preference. I like to use a computer with one hand and use the other for holding something like a piece of paper of a mug of tea. I have configured my favorite editor so that most of the editing functions can be done with one hand such as navigating, cutting, pasting, searching, opening and saving files, etc. The main thing I need to use both hands for is entering text. I guess I need to get one of those mice with, like, 20 buttons or something and then I will have the best of both worlds. Brent ",5 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? In article <20APR199303363759@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (stephen) writes: >Several possibilities: > > (a) a few of the rogue BATF/FBI types arranged for > a mix of cs and fuel based gas for cover-up, > to be set off by previously placed timed > incendiaries. Or Janet ""Rizzo"" Reno arranged this personally. Note that the man who supposedly slipped through FBI lines to get inside emerged shortly before the fire. >Oh yeah, let me add a possiblity... > > o What better way to cover up mistakes than a fire? > (You pick which side.) Exactly. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Some news readers expect ""Disclaimer:"" here. Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. (not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice) ",19 "Hall Generators from USSR Hi Folks, Last year America bought two ""Hall Generators"" which are used as thrusters for space vehicles from former USSR,if I could recall correctly these devices were sent to JPL,Pasadena labs for testing and evaluation. I am just curious to know how these devices work and what what principle is involved .what became of them.There was also some controversy that the Russian actually cheated,sold inferior devices and not the one they use in there space vehicles. Any info will be appreciated... ok { Thank{ in advance... Tamoor A Zaidi Lockheed Commercial Aircraft Center Norton AFB,San Bernardino teezee@netcom.com de244@cleveland.freenet.edu ",14 "Re: Sunrise/ sunset times In article <1r6f3a$2ai@news.umbc.edu> rouben@math9.math.umbc.edu (Rouben Rostamian) writes: >>Hello. I am looking for a program (or algorithm) that can be used >>to compute sunrise and sunset times. > >Here is a computation I did a long time ago that computes the length >of the daylight. You should be able to convert the information here >to sunrise and sunset times. Sorry, not so -- the changes in sunrise and sunset times are not quite synchronized. For example, neither the earliest sunrise nor the latest sunset comes on the longest day of the year. You can derive day length from sunrise and sunset times, but not vice-versa. ",14 "Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast) In a previous article, gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) says: >>>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake> >>>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the j>udgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one. > >>just to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one? It seems >>to me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on. You do not need > >I couldnt agree more. That is how it SHOULD work. People should also ALWAYS see motorcycles too. > >I CONSTANTLY scan behind me (I have one of those wink mirrors) and two outside mirrors. I actually spend just as much time checking my six (cops you know). > >I still get caught off guard every now and then. > > >Maybe I didnt word it right the first time. What I was trying to say was that if you plan to blow by somebody at a very HIGH speed differential and you assume you are safe because the guy sees you, you are stupid (of course, it depends on the circumstances). I have had some VERY scary instances when I assumed this and I dont think all of the fault was the other guy (now if he was going 25 in a 55 thats a whole different story) ok. I can agree to this, because, as we have both proved, what is ideally SUPPOSED to happen, isn't always. And even though i'm rearely the one doing the passing, i don't see where it makes you stupid, but i agree, that if you think you are SAFE, because the other guy is SUPPOSED to have been paying attention, then yes, you are just as dumb as the other(maybe dumber?) hasta DREW ",7 "Radar/Laser Detectors What are people's opinions about laser detectors? Escort makes a laser detector, the Passport 1000, and claims it works fine. However, I've talked to some people who have said that it will only work if you are lucky - i.e. if the cop happens to point his laser at a car in front of you, and the laser beam happens to reflect back to your detector. Otherwise it won't work. Regular radar, of course, travels in all directions; hence it is more detectable. Any comments? Escort has a deal (till the end of April, I think), where if you buy their wideband (Passport 3200 - X, K, Ka) and laser detectors, you'll save $60 off of buying them separately. In this case, the addition of the laser detector over the Passport 3200 is only $40 (i.e. Passport 1000 normally costs $100). -- Eddie Gornish University of Illinois - Center for Supercomputing Research & Development gornish@csrd.uiuc.edu ",12 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. In article steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson) writes: _The_ problem with Oort cloud sources is that absolutely no plausible mechanism has been proposed. It would have to involve new physics as far as I can tell. Closest to ""conventional"" Oort sources is a model of B-field pinching by comets, it's got too many holes in it to count, but at least it was a good try... So you have a plausible model for GRB's at astronomical distances? Recent observations have just about ruled out the merging neutron star hypothesis, which had a lot of problems, anyhow. We have to look for implausible models and what is fundamentally allowed independent of models. A paper on the possibility of GRB's in the Oort cloud just came through the astrophysics abstract service. To get a copy of this paper, send a message to astro-ph@babbage.sissa.it with the subject line get 9304001 Here is the abstract of that paper. The currently favored explanation for the origin of \GRBs puts them at cosmological distances; but as long as there is no distance indicator to these events all possible sources which are isotropically distributed should remain under consideration. This is why the Oort cloud of comets is kept on the list, although there is no known mechanism for generating \GRBs from cometary nuclei. Unlikely as it may seem, the possibility that \GRBs originate in the solar cometary cloud cannot be excluded until it is disproved. We use the available data on the distribution of \GRBs (the BATSE catalogue up to March, 1992), and the Catalogue of Cometary Orbits by Marsden and Williams (1992) to investigate whether there is any observational indication for correlations between the angular distributions of \GRBs and comets' aphelia, assuming that the distribution of aphelia direction reflect, at least to some extent, true variations in the column density of the Oort cloud. We also apply the $\vov$ test to both distributions. We have performed a variety of statistical tests (a Kolmogorov-Smirnov test for the distributions in galactic latitude, a $\chi^2$ test for the spherical multiple moments, and a 2-D cross-correlation analysis), including testing sub-samples for isolating the effect of possible observational biases. These tests imply that it is unlikely that the two distributions agree, but the statistical significance is not sufficient for ruling out any connection with complete confidence. We performed Monte-Carlo simulations which show that only when the number of bursts exceeds $\sim 800$ it is possible to rule out a correlation between the angular distributions. Currently, it is only the combination of these tests with the large disagreement found for the $\vov$ parameter which makes the Oort cloud of comets unlikely to be related to \GRBs. ",14 "Re: Basil, opinions? (Re: Water on the brain) In article <1qmdtlINNkrc@early-bird.think.com>, shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday) writes: |> In article <1993Apr15.204930.9517@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, hasan@McRCIM.McGill.EDU writes: |> |> |> |> In article <1993Apr15.055341.6075@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes: |> |> |> I guess Hasan finally revealed the source of his claim that Israel |> |> |> diverted water from Lebanon--his imagination. |> |> |> -- |> |> |> Alan H. Stein astein@israel.nysernet.org |> |> Mr. water-head, |> |> i never said that israel diverted lebanese rivers, in fact i said that |> |> israel went into southern lebanon to make sure that no |> |> water is being used on the lebanese |> |> side, so that all water would run into Jordan river where there |> |> israel will use it !#$%^%&&*-head. |> |> Of course posting some hard evidence or facts is much more |> difficult. You have not bothered to substantiate this in |> any way. Basil, do you know of any evidence that would support |> this? |> |> I can just imagine a news report from ancient times, if Hasan |> had been writing it. |> |> Newsflash: |> Cairo AP (Ancient Press). Israel today denied Egypt acces to the Red |> Sea. In a typical display of Israelite agressiveness, the leader of |> the Israelite slave revolt, former prince Moses, parted the Red Sea. |> The action is estimated to have caused irreparable damage to the environment. |> Egyptian authorities have said that thousands of fisherman have been |> denied their livelihood by the parted waters. Pharaoh's brave charioteers |> were successful in their glorious attempt to cause the waters of the |> Red Sea to return to their normal state. Unfortunately they suffered |> heavy casualties while doing so. Hehehe. BTW, does the Litani River not flow West and not South? I think that its waters stay entirely within Lebanese territory and so what Hasan says about the Jordan River makes no sense, in any case. The Hasbani River, on the other hand, flows into the Jordan, if I am not mistaken. Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU) ",17 "Re: ESDI with IDE??? -- Yes it should be Possible, In article <1993Apr16.033802.6605@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, els390r@fawlty1.eng.monash.edu.au (G Chow) writes: > In article <1qegfd$dqi@wsinis03.info.win.tue.nl> monty@wsinis03.info.win.tue.nl (Guido Leenders) writes: >>Hi, >> >>Is it possible to use an ESDI-controller with HDD together with an >>IDE-harddisk + controller in one ISA-system? >> >>I've read stuff about secondary controllers. Does this trick work? >> >>Thanx in advance, >> >>Guido >>monty@win.tue.nl > > I have the same question as Guido. It is possible to use the ESDI drive > as a master and the IDE drive as the slave ? I can definitily say that you can use an RLL as Master and IDE as slave, as I have just upgraded my machine with a 200Mb IDE ( And custom Controller Mdl CI-1010 Extended IDE Controller ) While maintaining my RLL'd Wren as master Drive. The trick is the controller which supports up to 4 IDE Drives while coexisting with existing Controllers ( MFM,RLL,ESDI,SCSI ). So according to the Documentation it should work with ESDI, and I can assure you it works with RLL. Bruce Powell email: bss_brucep@vd.seqeb.gov.au ",3 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr22.031648.2886@a.cs.okstate.edu> kennejs@a.cs.okstate.edu (KENNEDY JAMES SCOT) writes: >At this point in time we don't who destroyed the BDs. Maybe it was the >government; maybe it was Koresh. I wouldn't immediately rule out the >government just because the FBI said that a couple of cult members >torched Koresh's wood-frame house. I think that the credibility of the >FBI and the cigarette cops is questionable at best; at worst they are >bald-faced liers. I read in a newspaper today that one of the BDs that >survived the fire said that one of the tanks that crashed through their >wood-frame house knocked over a lantern which later on caused the >compound to errupt in flames. Also, I have heard that one of the cult >members who earlier said that he and another individual started the fire >is no longer claiming that he did it. Moreover, he and possibly the >other person may not have even really said that they did it in the >first place---we only have the FBI's WORD ON THIS. I'll believe it when >I hear from a cult member's own mouth and not before then. > >The FBI claims that they saw two cult members starting the fire. They >claimed that the two were clad in black clothing and were wearing gas >masks. Hmmm... Sounds like they might have been describing an ATF >agent to me. Weren't the cigarette cops wearing black? Note: this >is just speculation on my part. Let me get this straight: your theory is that the FBI accidentally started the fire while the ATF was deliberately starting it? That would certainly explain why they've been lying about the whole thing -- that kind of screw-up really *would* be embarrassing, wouldn't it? There is of course only one weak spot in this theory -- we only have the FBI's WORD that the guys setting the fire were wearing black, and you've already demonstrated that the FBI consists of bald-faced liars. From this we can immediately conclude that they were not in fact wearing black, and that that description was part of the FBI cover-up. Who was it really? Come on, now, think -- who is really out to embarrass the Clinton administration? The answer is so obvious I don't see how you could have missed it. That's right -- it was Robert Dole and the Senate Republicans, of course. And it worked, too: Clinton immediately backed down on the stimulus package, didn't he? >Still, it is something to think about. Uh huh. Later he writes: >[...] The tear gas cannisters---which do produce heat >despite what you may have been told by the media---may have contributed >to starting the blaze. Now I'm getting confused. Did the tear gas canisters start the fire before or after the lantern, and when was that in relation to when the ATF started it? Oh, by the way, the story I've been hearing is that no canisters were used, since they didn't want to start a fire (but we of course only have their word on that). As you may be able to tell, I'm not exactly persuaded. -- Steve Schaffner sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu The opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, Stanford University, or the DOE. ",18 "Re: The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum: A Costly and Dangerous Mistake arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: >In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: >>through private contributions on Federal land"". Your hate-mongering >>article is devoid of current and historical fact, intellectual content >>and social value. Down the toilet it goes..... >> >And we all know what an unbiased source the NYT is when it comes to things >concerning Israel. >Neither the Times nor the trained seals who have responded thus far seem to >recognize the statement that these ""private funds"" were all tax exmpt. In >otherwords, American taxpayers put up at least 30% of the money. And >finalyy, how does ""Federal land"" mitigate the offensiveness of this alien >monument dedicated to perpetuating pitty and the continual flow of tax money >to a foreign entity? >That ""Federal land"" and tax money could have been used to commerate >Americans or better yet, to house homeless Americans. The donations are tax deductible like any donations to a non-profit organization. I've donated money to a group restoring streetcars and it was tax deductible. Why don't you contribute to a group helping the homeless if you so concerned? ",17 "Custom Keys I am looking for a company that can make custom keys. For instance we need a key that says HELP, MAIN MENU, etc which we are going to use instead of F1,F2, F3 etc... Can anyone point me to a company that does this. Also do you have to have a special keyboard, or can I just pop off the old keys and pop in the new ones... Thanks for the help Jeff Swartz ",3 "Re: The arrogance of Christians In article , dleonar@andy.bgsu.edu (Pixie) writes: > > Do the words ""Question Authority"" mean anything to you? > > I defy any theist to reply. For all those people who insist I question authority: Why? Chris Mussack (This is another example of my biting, raw-edged humor that is neither appreciated nor understood by everyone.) #8;-)> {Messy hair, glasses, winking, smiling, big chin} ",15 "Re: WHAT car is this!? You guys are correct. The Bricklin was produced in Canada. The National Museum of Science and Technology here in Ottawa has one, and sometimes they put it on display. Most of the time, it stays in storage because the museum doesn't have much room. It's a big deal for a car to be Canadian and that's why they have it. If anybody's a fan, they also have a nice green '73 Riviera that looks like it just came out of the showroom. -- MIKE HARKER OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA VOICE: 613-823-6757 -- Paul Tomblin (formerly pt@geovision.gvc.com) Sven's Law: There's exceptions to every law (except this one) ",7 "HELP!! My Macintosh ""luggable"" has lines on its screen! Okay, I don't use it very much, but I would like for it to keep working correctly, at least as long as Apple continues to make System software that will run on it, if slowly :-) Here is the problem: When the screen is tilted too far back, vertical lines appear on the screen. They are every 10 pixels or so, and seem to be affected somewhat by opening windows and pulling down menus. It looks to a semi-technical person like there is a loose connection between the screen and the rest of the computer. I am open to suggestions that do not involve buying a new computer, or taking this one to the shop. I would also like to not have to buy one of Larry Pina's books. I like Larry, but I'm not sure I feel strongly enough about the computer to buy a service manual for it. On a related note: what does the monitor connector connect to? Erik ",4 "tn3270 support for xterm? Is there a tn3270 program which support xterm? I don't like x3270 at all. You can't copy with other windows. Thanks. ",5 "Re: Space Advertising (2 of 2) As for SF and advertising in space. There is a romantic episode in Mead's ""The Big Ball of Wax"" where the lovers are watching the constellation Pepsi Cola rising over the horizon and noting the some 'stars' had slipped cause the Teamsters were on strike. This was the inspiration for my article on orbiting a formation of space mirrors published in Spaceflight in 1986. As the reviews said: this seems technically feasible, and could be commercially viable but is it aesthetically desirable? These days the only aesthetics that count are the ones you can count! -- Dave Stephenson Geological Survey of Canada Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Internet: stephens@geod.emr.ca ",14 "Re: cubs & expos roster questions In article <15APR199312304021@pavo.concordia.ca>, m_klein@pavo.concordia.ca (CorelMARK!) wrote: > > In article <0096B0F0.C5DE05A0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, alird@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes... > >In article <1993Apr15.003015.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu>, cvadrnlh@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes: > >>Today (4/14) Cubs activated P Mike Harkey from DL, whom did they move to make > >>room for Harkey? > >>Also, are Delino Deshields & John Wetteland of the Expos on the DL? > >>Thanks for anyone who can give me more info! > >>/=== > >>Ken > >>Cal Poly, Pomona > >> > > > >Wetteland is on the DL effective March 26 or something like that. > > > >rick The Cubs sent Boskie to Iowa to make room for Harkey. _______________ Jeff Eastman jaeastman@anl.gov _______________ ",9 "Diamond Speedstar Driver for v3.1 I am looking for a WIN31 driver (or set) for my Diamond Speedstar 1MB video card. Does anybody know of an archive site that has these? I looked at CICA and it had drivers for the Stealth card and for Generic ET4000 cards but not one specifically for the Speedstar. Is there one? Or has Diamond dropped the Speedstar out of the driver development loop. Thanks for any info, Rob -- Robert Mee Boston University Information Technology (rem@bu-it.bu.edu) ",2 "Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (maxwell c muir) writes: : : In the NT, the clear references are all from Paul's letters. In Rom : 1, there is a passage that presupposes that homosexuality is an evil. : Note that the passage isn't about homosexuality -- it's about : idolatry. Homosexuality is visited on people as a punishment, or at : least result, of idolatry. There are a number of arguments over this : passage. It does not use the word ""homosexuality"", and it is referring : to people who are by nature heterosexual practicing homosexuality. : So it's not what I'd call an explicit teaching against all homosexuality. That's like saying that murder is only wrong for those of us who aren't natural murders, and stealing is only wrong for those of us who aren't natural thieves. Will -- ============================================ | Dallas Cowboys - World Champions 1992-93 | ============================================ ",15 "Re: Unconventional peace proposal In article <1483500348@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research writes: > >From: Center for Policy Research >Subject: Unconventional peace proposal > > >A unconventional proposal for peace in the Middle-East. >---------------------------------------------------------- by > Elias Davidsson > >Having stated my assumptions, I will now state my proposal. > >1. A Fund should be established which would disburse grants >for each child born to a couple where one partner is Israeli-Jew >and the other Palestinian-Arab. ... >5. The emergence of a considerable number of 'mixed' >marriages in Israel/Palestine, all of whom would have relatives on >'both sides' of the divide, would make the conflict lose its >ethnical and unsoluble core and strengthen the emergence of a >truly civil society. The existence of a strong 'mixed' stock of >people would also help the integration of Israeli society into the Sounds just like a racial theory that Hitler outlined in Mein Kampf. >Elias Davidsson Post Box 1760 121 Reykjavik, ICELAND -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",17 "Problem with speed My 486DX2-50 has 8MB of 70ns RAM and a Trident SVGA card. Sometimes I feel it runs very slowly, especially when running Windows. I'm planning to buy an ATI Graphic Ultra + next semester. Is that all I need to get the problem solved? Is 70ns RAM chips too slow for my machine? Do faster RAM chips make a big difference? I use CAD software on my computer as well. Do those up-grades good enough to speed it up a lot? Any one experienced the difference between ISA bus and VL bus(both with a graphic accelerator)? (A SCSI controller may not be appropriate, since I may have to replace my hard disks as well. However, sometimes I do have huge files on my computer. Does it really worth to use a SCSI interface? I can't spend too much on it) t he ) Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dennis dpang@uafhp.uark.edu p.s. Man! I hate the stupid text editor. Is there any way I can type my article in a DOS word-processor and load the file into usenet? Thanks in advance again! ",3 "Re: Mac oriented BBSs > I'm also interested in Mac based BBS, but not in Chicago. > I would greatly appreciate it if someone could post a list of BBSs > in the LA area. Preferably (818) but also (213). Thanks. Dan Sure thing. Here are the FIrstClass systems in those area codes: MacValley Online Burbank, CA (818) 840-0518 The Drawing Board Hacienda Heights, CA (818) 965-6241 BPS Hollywood, CA (213) 874-1919 SanGabriel Valley MUG Pasadena, CA (818) 790-5426 And here is all of California (unformated, sorry): Middle Earth Anaheim, CA (714) 828-9758 Byte Out of The Apple Benecia, CA (707) 747-0306 Planet BMUG Berkley, CA (510) 849-2684 MacValley Online Burbank, CA (818) 840-0518 Gentle Rain Forum Claremont, CA (909) 593-6144 CyberSpace BBS Culver City, CA (310) 568-9184 * AllNet Cupertino, CA (408) 736-2607 The Boy's Club Cupertino, CA (408) 261-8331 Meme Net Fresno, CA (209) 431-6363 Sierra Mouse Trap Grass Valley, CA (916) 265-9739 The Drawing Board Hacienda Heights, CA (818) 965-6241 The Public BBS Half Moon Bay, CA (415) 726-3587 BPS Hollywood, CA (213) 874-1919 Imagine-NET Irvine, CA (714) 660-7738 eNet La Canada, CA (818) 952-6609 Guerilla Symbiotics La Verne, CA (909) 593-6862 Macrocosm Livermore, CA (510) 449-1648 OneNet Los Altos, CA (415) 948-1349 MacIsland Los Angeles, CA (310) 476-2299 MacShasta Mt. Shasta, CA (916) 926-4854 Foundation Newhall, CA (805) 255-7237 SanGabriel Valley MUG Pasadena, CA (818) 790-5426 Gooey BBS Point Mugu, CA (805) 986-1216 Servant Christian BBS Redondo Beach, CA (310) 371-2770 SBAMUG Redondo Beach, CA (310) 792-8083 A-1 EZ OK San Diego, CA (619) 693-1575 This is not empTV? San Diego, CA (619) 450-1590 Harry's BBS San Francisco, CA (415) 824-7809 Bare Bones BBS San Jose, CA (408) 272-2173 City Connection San Jose, CA (408) 272-3332 MacDaze Santa Barbara, CA (805) 964-6320 Mac Magic Santa Barbara, CA (805) 682-1737 Crumal's Dimension Santa Clara, CA (408) 246-7854 Casa del Cyborg Santa Cruz, CA (408) 457-2595 Beacon Comminque' Simi Valley, CA (805) 522-9602 Channel Z Simi Valley, CA (805) 581-4975 Jake and the Mac Man Solona Beach, CA (619) 775-2142 Iguana BBS Sunnyvale, CA (408) 733-8626 VIZability Walnut Creek, CA (510) 210-0800 - Jason /// The author's opinions are independant of those of Adrenaline Online \\\ =========================================================================== = /| |\ |-\ /-- \ | /\ | | \ | /-- Adrenaline Online (FirstClass) = = /-| | \ |_/ |- |\| /--| | | |\| |- (802) 425-2332 * Charlotte, VT = = / | |_/ | \ \-- | \ | | |-- | | \ \-- adrenaline.com * Fido: 325/124 = =========================================================================== = OneNet * MacUnion * FidoNet * UseNet * 120+ Conferences * Megs of Files = = Dedicated to Mac users, cyberpunks, civil libertarians and mecha gamers = =========================================================================== ",4 "Re: MR2 - noisy engine. In article <1r3oe8$c93@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes: >nice theory. too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0 >liters. More like 1.6. Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's 2.2 or >some such? foot in mouth again, drew. the first generation mr 2's were 1.6's which were very smooth. i'd be real surprised if the original poster was talking about a 1st generation car. the second generation cars were 2.2 for the non turbo and 2.0 for the turbo. i drove the non turbo 2.2 and calling it unpleasant is to be kind to it.. >I also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must >pay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4... wrong and wrong. mitsubishi owns the patent, which has since expired which is why everybody with a shred of integrity is putting balance shafts into their big 4's.. the notable exception is nissan.. and only for the us market suckers. i guess we need to write to C&D and start telling them to publish graphs for engine vibration over rpm. then you'll see usenet discussions of the form: engine A has peak vibrations 3 dB less than engine B, therefore engine A is better than engine B. 1/2 :-) eliot ",7 "XView 3.0 question Yet another XView question: is there an (easy) way of detecting when a user has resized a frame _externally_ by way of the window manager (e.g. grabbing and letting go of the frame resize corners under olwm)? If so, please let me know! Derek ----------------------------------------------------------- | Derek C. Richardson | Tel: (0223) 337548 x 37501 | | Institute of Astronomy | Fax: (0223) 337523 | | Cambridge, U.K. | | | CB3 0HA | E-mail: dcr@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk | ----------------------------------------------------------- ",5 "Re: Smoker's Lungs In article <1993Apr5.123315.48837@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, bennett@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: > How long does it take a smoker's lungs to clear of the tar after quitting? > Does your chances of getting lung cancer decrease quickly or does it take > a considerable amount of time for that to happen? Seems to me that I read in either a recent NY Times Science Times or maybe it was Science News that there is evidence that ex-smoker's risk of lung cancer never returns to that of a person who has never smoked (I think it may get close). I'll find the article and post it since my memory is hazy on the specifics - if you are interested. Michael ",13 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article , irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: >In article <1r1j3n$4t@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: >>In article <1r19tp$5em@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, mfrhein@wpi.WPI.EDU (Michael Frederick Rhein) writes: >> >>> >napalm, then let the wood stove inside ignite it. >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>> As someone else has pointed out, why would the stove be in use on a warm day >>> in Texas. >> >>Do YOU eat all your food cold? > >Ever hear of electric ovens or microwaves? Very popular. >Electric stoves outside metro-areas especially. Ever hear about cutting off the electricity? That was done. How effective is an electric stove then? Al [standard disclaimer] ",16 "Re: Bates Method for Myopia Dr. willian Horatio Bates born 1860 and graduated from med school 1885. Medical career hampered by spells of total amnesia. Published in 1920, his great work ""The Cure of Imperfect Eyesight by Treatment With- out Glasses"", He made claims about how the eye actually works that are simply NOT TRUE. Aldous Huxley was one of the more ""high profile"" beleivers in his system. Mr. Huxley while giving a lecture on Bates system forgot the lecture that he was supposedely reading and had to put the paper right up to his eyes and then resorted to a magnifying glass from his pocket. book have been written debunking this technique, however they remain less read than the original fraud. cheers jc@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (John Cross) The Old Frog's Almanac (Home of The Almanac UNIX Users Group) (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Vancouver Island, British Columbia Waffle XENIX 1.64 ",13 "Re: WJR in Boston John Girash writes... >For all those Red Wings fans in Boston, I thought I'd letcha know that (being >desperate for news on the game) I tried to get WJR (AM 760) on my Walkman -- >and SUCCEEDED! It was at night (about 10pm) & reception got better as it got You can get WJR a LONG way away. The problem is that, because of those well known and beloved ""contractual obligations"", WJR will be doing Tiger baseball instead of the Wings playoff games for probably half the games the Wings could play. For this series, I know tonight's game and I believe games 5 and 6 (if necessay) will be bumped. Ron ********** ""And one of my major goals is to leave the next president a new set of things to worry about. I'm getting bored reading the same problems in the paper, decade after decade. I want people to have to deal with new problems."" ... President Bill Clinton 2-4-93 ",10 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <116533@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: |> In article <1r2idi$6e1@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> |> >So now you are saying that an Islamic Bank is something other than |> >BCCI. |> |> >Would you care to explain why it was that when I said ""I hope an |> >Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI"", you called me a childish |> >propagandist. |> |> Yes, sure, because the only obvious reason anyone would make the jump from |> ""BCCI"" to ""Islamic bank"" is by associating Islamic banking with muslim |> ownership. But in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank. |> And the only reason one would generalize from a _given_ |> Islamic bank to _all_ Islamic banks is through a stereotype -- one |> X is bad, therefore all X's are bad. But in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank. |> Next think you know there is a Bosnia on tap. But in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank. jon. ",0 "Re: Ulf crushes Valeri Zelepukin In article , clare@ssd.kodak.com (Bill Clare 726-9419) writes... >That more or less says it. I flicked the Penguins game on briefly and saw >Ulf cross-check Valeri in the face. I am wondering if Don Cherry is going to >go off on this at all in coach's corner. Nah, Cherry will only spew if Ulf was nailing ""a good Canadian boy"". What an idiot... if this is the heart and soul of Canadian patriotism, then someone needs a new hobby... Dr.D [The Devils Advocate] ""Drinkin' & women & guns don't mix..."" v057p7nk@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu awkorbut@acsu.buffalo.edu - Mark Arm ",10 "Re: Illusion > This is not a new idea. At least 10 years ago I got this little gadget with > a keyboard on the back and 8 LED's in a vertical row on the front. It has a > long handle and when you wave it in the air it ""writes"" the message you typed > on the keyboard in the air. ---------- This is not news. In fact it's where I got the idea from, since it was such a neat item. Mattell made it, I believe, modeled after a ""space saber"" or ""light sword"" or something likewise theme-y. My addition was using a motor for continuous display, and polar effects in addition to character graphics. I should have protected it when I had the chance. No one to kick but myself... Ten years ago is about right, since I built mine in '84 or '85. ",12 "Forsale - Steyr 9mm Parabellum FOR SALE - Steyr GB 9mm Parabellum ---------------------------------- This is an excellent handgun for the first time buyer or an experienced handgunner. It is in excellent condition. I never had a misfire with it. Make: Steyr Model GB 9mm Parabellum Magazine: 18 rounds Barrel: Hard-chrome-plated inside and outside for long term durability and wear resistance. Fixed mount. Price: $375, obo. Comes with 2 magazines, original owner's manual. Contact: T. Ahmad, ihlpm!tarq, (708)979-0838 (weekdays) ",6 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In <15378@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: >From the Santa Rosa (Cal.) Press-Democrat, April 15, 1993, p. B2: > Male sex survey: Gay activity low > A new natonal study on male sexual behavior, the most thorough > examination of American men's sexual practices published since > the Kinsey report more than four decades ago, shows about 2 > percent of the men surveyed had engaged in homosexual sex and > 1 percent considered themselves exclusively homosexual. etc. etc..... >The article also contains numbers on the number of sexual partners. >The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3. ^^^^^^ ***Sure!!! And what's .3 of a woman??? Any hypothesis?? How can you trust a report from people that have *no idea* of what a MEDIAN is? The same bullshit article reported that 22,5% of all the men have sex 10 times or more a week (Elf, how many times did you fill one of those questionnaires?) and had other statistics that took in no consideration different class backgrounds, marital status etc. No information on sampling were given. >Compared to the table I have already posted from Masters, Johnson, >and Kolodny showing male homosexual partners, it is apparent that >homosexual men are dramatically more promiscuous than the general >male population. It's a shame that we don't have a breakdown for Do you think you can compare so lightly secondary data from 2 very different (and discutible) surveys??? >straight men vs. gay/bi men -- that would show even more dramatically >how much more promiscuous gay/bi men are. It just shows how dramatically ignorant are press release writers and most pople that read them..... PAolo ",18 "Re: American Jewish Congress Open Letter to Clinton In article <22APR199307534304@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes: >> [I said the fixation on Bosnia is due to it being in a European country, >> rather than the third world] >>I recall, before we did anything for Somalia, (apparent) left-wingers saying >>that the reason everyone was more willing to send troops to Bosnia than to >>Somalia was because the Somalis are third-worlders who Americans consider >>unworthy of help. They suddenly shut up when the US decided to send troops to >>the opposite place than that predicted by the theory. >I am a staunch Republican, BTW. The irony of arguing against military >intervention with arguments based on Vietnam has not escaped me. I was opposed >to US intervention in Somalia for the same reasons, although clearly it was >not nearly as risky. Based on the same reasons? You mean you were opposed to US intervention in Somalia because since Somalia is a European country instead of the third world, the desire to help Somalia is racist? I don't think this ""same reason"" applies to Somalia at all. The whole point is that Somalia _is_ a third world country, and we were more willing to send troops there than to Bosnia--exactly the _opposite_ of what the ""fixation on European countries"" theory would predict. (Similarly, the desire to help Muslims being fought by Christians is also exactly the opposite of what that theory predicts.) >>For that matter, this theory of yours suggests that Americans should want to >>help the Serbs. After all, they're Christian, and the Muslims are not. If >>the desire to intervene in Bosnia is based on racism against people that are >>less like us, why does everyone _want_ to help the side that _is_ less like us? >>Especially if both of the sides are equal as you seem to think? >Well, one thing you have to remember is, the press likes a good story. Good >for business, don't you know. And BTW, not ""everyone"" wants to help the >side that is less like us. I'm referring to people who want to help at all, of course. You don't see people sending out press releases ""help Bosnian Serbs with ethnic cleansing! The Muslim presence in the Balkans should be eliminated now!"" (Well, except for some Serbs, but I admit that the desire of Serbs in America to help the Serbian side probably _is_ because those are people more like them.) -- ""On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey! On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole that she made from Leftover Turkey. [days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ... -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait) Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) ",17 "Overriding Default Behaviour Usually when I start up an application, I first get the window outline on my display. I then have to click on the mouse button to actually place the window on the screen. Yet when I specify the -geometry option the window appears right away, the properties specified by the -geometry argument. The question now is: How can I override the intermediary step of the user having to specify window position with a mouseclick? I've tried explicitly setting window size and position, but that did alter the normal program behaviour. Thanks for any hints ---> Robert PS: I'm working in plain X. ****************************************************************************** * Robert Gasch * Der erste Mai ist der Tag an dem die Stadt ins * * Oracle Engineering * Freihe tritt und den staatlichen Monopolanspruch * * De Meern, NL * auf Gewalt in Frage stellt * * rgasch@nl.oracle.com * - Einstuerzende Neubauten * ****************************************************************************** ",5 "Re: ATI build 59 drivers ""good""? hofkin@software.org (Bob Hofkin) writes: : Build 59 causes 2 exceptions when I exit Windows. In fact, I have had : this happen on all builds after 44, which shipped with my Gateway : system. Am I doing something wrong, or is this problem commonly : overlooked? I have never had ""exceptions"" with build 44, 50, or 59 drivers. I have a GW2000 DX266. -- Scott Linn scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com ",3 "Re: ABOLISH SELECTIVE SERVICE william@fractl.tn.cornell.edu writes: : In article <1993Apr15.215747.17331@m5.harvard.edu>, borden@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Dave Borden) writes: : >The Selective Service Registration should be abolished. To start with, the : >draft is immoral. Whether you agree with that or not, we don't have one now, : >and military experts agree that the quality of the armed forces is superior : >with a volunteer army than with draftees. Finally, the government has us : >on many lists in many computers (the IRS, Social Security Admistration and : >Motor Vehicle Registries to name a few) and it can find us if it needs to. : >Maintaining yet another list of people is an utter waste of money and time. : >Let's axe this whole department, and reduce the deficit a little bit. : > : > : > - Dave Borden : > borden@m5.harvard.edu : : : You selfish little bastard. Afraid you might have to sacrafice somthing : for your country. What someone not approve a lone for you ? To bad. : What is immoral is: people like you and the current president who don't : have any idea why this country still exists after 200+ years. This country still exists after 200+ years because the people have to be forced by the government to fight in foreign wars? I don't think so... Bill . ",18 "Re: Wanted: A to D hardware for a PC In article <1993Apr6.053736.23113@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes: >>In <3889@ncr-mpd.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM> Brad Wright writes: >> >>> If you know much about PC's (IBM comp) you might try the joystick >>>port. Though I haven't tried this myself, I've been told that the port > >I believe that the ""A-D converters"" found on a joystick port are really >timers that tick off how long it takes an R-C circuit (the R being your >paddle) to charge up to something like 1/2 Vcc. For games this works >pretty well, but you certainly wouldn't want to try to take lab >measurements off something as non-linear as that. The best info I have seen so far is the article ""Joystick Metrics: Measuring physical properties through the PC's joystick port"" by Michael Covington in the May 1985 issue of PC Tech Journal. It talks about how to read all kinds of things (voltage, current, resistance) in BASIC, and even includes code for a simple ""oscilloscope"" display. It's possible to read the joystick port directly if you don't want to use BASIC. The detailed information for this is in the PC Technical Reference under Options and Adapters. You have to provide some millisecond resolution timing functions, but that's a subject which has appeared many times in articles from Dr. Dobb's, Circuit Cellar Ink, etc. Look for the public domain ztimer package on wuarchive. Good Luck, Dev Palmer dpalmer@mcnc.org MCNC Room 212 P.O. Box 12889 RTP, NC 27709-2889 (919) 248-1837 (919) 248-1455 FAX ",12 "Re: Replacement/Custom Seats, Where to get? In article Tom Wetzel writes: >In article <1993Apr26.154428.17764@colorado.edu> Jerry Bowman, bowmanj@csn.org >writes: >> What car are we talking about? If its Camaro, Chevelle,GTO, >> Nova, Etc. there are a bunch of places to get them. > > A 68 Corvette but, I don't want to put Corvette seats in it. The original > seats are in exc. shape but they are uncomfortable as hell. I'm going to > store those and find a set to drive in. I have all the Vette catalogs but > I'm looking for a more generic type seat. I can modify the brackets but > cushion height and overall width are a concern. I've looked through some > local boneyards without success. I would just like to find a pair of > cheapo's to use this summer. > > Tom Call around to some wrecking yards in your area and,if they have any, look at Fiero seats. They are right down on the floor like a vette and not too wide.If you can't find any let me know and i'll call around here for you. I'm sure these yards ship stuff all the time. ",7 "Re: OS/2 2.1 UNLEASHED We have an copy of the book, new, not read. $20 plus S/H. DC if you can pickup. (The book has over 1100 pages and is quite heavy.) Feng -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 ",6 "Re: neck reining -was- Countersteering_FAQ please post In article <1qmetg$g2n@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes: >Basically, there are two ways to steer a horse, plow-rein and >neck-rein. Plow-reining steers him by keeping the reins separate, and >you pull in the direction you wish to go. Neck-reining steers a horse >by holding the reins together in one hand, and pulling against the >horse's neck in the direction you wish to go. When training a >plow-steering horse to neck-rein, one technique is to cross the reins >under his necks. Thus, when neck-reining to the left, the right rein >pulls against the right side of the neck, but the left side of the bit >(which the horse is used to from his plow-reining days). I learned when riding bareback as a kid to ""palm-reign"", by just pushing on the right side of the horse's neck with your right palm to turn left - a lot like countersteering. So that came pretty easy to me in the transition to motorcycles. It took a while however to break my habit of kicking the rear fender with my heels to go faster. Steve __________________________________________________________________________ Steve L. Moseley moseley@u.washington.edu Microbiology SC-42 Phone: (206) 543-2820 University of Washington FAX: (206) 543-8297 Seattle, WA 98195 ",8 "Re: Dear Mr. Theist west@next02cville.wam.umd.edu (Stilgar) writes: > means to me. The full quote (Michael Crichton, _Jurrasic_Park_) was > something like ""The earth has existed quite contently for billions of > years. We have been here but for the blink of an eye, and if we were gone > tomorrow, the earth would not miss us."". I remember this quote to keep > myself humble when thinking that we have progressed so far or that we > are masters of this planet. Cool quote. > The earth doesn't need saving, it's existed quite happily with- > out us, we are the ones who need saving. Better watch it. The theists will jump on you for that... :-) > Brian West. > -- > THIS IS NOT A SIG FILE * -""To the Earth, we have been > THIS IS NOT A SIG FILE * here but for the blink of an > OK, SO IT'S A SIG FILE * eye, if we were gone tomorrow, > posted by west@wam.umd.edu * we would not be missed.""- > who doesn't care who knows it. * (Jurassic Park) > ** DICLAIMER: I said this, I meant this, nobody made me do it.** Nanci ......................................................................... If you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me email (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu): Lying to ourselves is more deeply ingrained than lying to others. ",0 "Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?) In article sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes: > >In article <1993Apr15.161112.21772@cs.rochester.edu>, fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes: > >|> I don't think ""extra-scientific"" is a very useful phrase in a discussion >|> of the boundaries of science, except as a proposed definiens. >|> Extra-rational >|> is a better phrase. In fact, there are quite a number of well-known cases >|> of extra-rational considerations driving science in a useful direction. > >Yeah, but the problem with holding up the ""extra-rational"" examples as >exemplars, or as refutations of well founded methodology, is that you >run smack up against such unuseful directions as Lysenko. Such ""extra- >rational"" cases are curiosities -- not guides to methodology. As has been noted before, there is the distinction between _motivation_ and _method_. No experimental result should be accepted unless it is described in sufficient detail to be replicated, and the replications do indeed reproduce the result. No theoretical argument should be accepted unless it is presented in sufficient detail to be followed, and reasonable, knowlegeable, people agree with the force of the logic. But people try experiments, and pursue arguments, for all sorts of crazy reasons. Irrational motivations are not just curiousities; they are a large part of the history of science. There are a couple of negative points to make here: 1) A theory of qi could, conceivably, become accepted without direct verification of the existence of qi. For example, quarks are an accepted part of the standard model of physics, with no direct verification. What would be needed would be a theory, based on qi, that predicted medical reality better than the alternatives. The central theoretical claim could lie forever beyond experiment, as long as there was a sufficient body of experimental data that the qi theory predicted better than any other. (I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the triumph of qi, though. I don't think that there is even a coherent theory based on it, much less a theory that explains anything at all better than modern biology. And it is hard to imagine a qi theory that would not predict some way of rather directly verifying the existence of qi.) 2) Science has not historically progressed in any sort of rational experiment-data-theory sequence. Most experiments are carried out, and interpreted, in pre-existing theoretical frameworks. The theoretical controversies of the day determine which experiments get done. Overall, there is a huge messy affair of personal jealousies, crazy motivations, petty hatreds, and the like that determines which experiments, and which computations, get done. What keeps it going forward is the critical function of science: results don't count unless they can be replicated. The whole system is a sort of mechanism for generate-and-test. The generate part can be totally irrational, as long as the test part works properly. Pasteur could believe whatever he liked about chemical activity and crystals; but even Mitscherlich had to agree that racemic acid crystals were handed; that when you separate them by handedness, you get two chemicals that rotate polarized light in opposite directions; and the right-rotating version was indistinguishable from tartaric acid. Pasteur's irrational motivation had led to a replicable, and important, result. This is where Lysenko, creationists, etc. fail. They have usually not even produced coherent theories that predict much of anything. When their theories do predict, and are contradicted by experiment, they do not concede the point and modify their theories; rather they try to suppress the results (Lysenko) or try to divert attention to other evidence they think supports their position (creationists). -- Mark A. Fulk University of Rochester Computer Science Department fulk@cs.rochester.edu ",13 "FAQs I was wondering if the FAQ files could be posted quarterly rather than monthly. Every 28-30 days, I get this bloated feeling. -- Bev Freed - via FidoNet node 1:129/104 UUCP: ...!pitt!nss!freed INTERNET: freed@nss.org ",14 "Re: Q: How to avoid XOpenDisplay hang? In article andy@ice.stx.com writes: >I'm writing 'xwall', a simple X version of 'wall', and I want it to >put a message up on each of a default list of displays. The problem >is that XOpenDisplay hangs if one of the displays is currently >controlled by xdm (login screen). xdm does XGrabServer when it's running in secure mode (so do some screen-locks). There's really no simple way to tell this is the case. You can take xdm out of secure mode; probably not too cool. You can wrap your call to XOpenDisplay in some code which solicts a future SIGALRM and longjmps past the XOpenDisplay from the signal handler. An example of this can be seen in the xdm sources. Note that longjmping out of XOpenDisplay probably causes a memory leak; any program functioning this way probably needs to exit() regularly. ",5 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <1r75n1INN97g@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras) writes: >In article dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James P. Dusek) writes: >> ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) writes: >> >or the cultists...) I think I'll quote the BBC quoting (actually voice >> >interview) one of the two British survivors. He claimed that the fire >> >started when the tanks caused an internal wooden wall/roof to collapse >> >knocking over kerosene lamps and that they had no suicide plan. >> >> If the FBI started the fire, why didn`t people flee the >> burning building? >> >I don't know, why? > This is the AP story from Fri morning. As the walls came tumbling down and tear gas filled the air, cult leader David Koresh sprang into action. He left his third-floor bedroom and began looking around the house, making sure women and children were secure and checking that everyone had their gas masks on properly. Within hours, the compound became an inferno. Nine Branch Davidians excaped. This is their story, gleaned from lawyers who spoke with six of them who are jailed on charges that include conspiracy and murder. That day the six said a portable radio offered the only contact with the outside world since Koresh's right-hand man, Steve Schneider, ripped out the compounds's phone line after FBI agents called before dawn Monday saying this was the cults last chance: Come out or prepare to get forced out. They kept their word. By dawn, tanks were battering the Mount Carmel compound, punching for hours to creat holes for tear gas to enter. The BD meanwhile proceeded with their daily routines. Strapped into gas masks, the women did laundry. Others read Bibles in their rooms. The 17 children, all under 10, remained by their mothers' sides. Still, it was hard to ignore what was happening around them. Each time a tank rammed the poorly-constructed building it shook violently. Cult members dodges falling gypsum wallboard and doors. Hundreds of gas canisters hurled in from the armored vehicles were filling the air with noxious fumes. The flying canisters were more frightening than the tanks. At least one man was hit in the face. The gas began filling the air, driven by heavy gusts of wind coming through windows and the holes the tanks made. Scattered throughout the house, the cult members made no efforts to gather. Then the FBI sent in its biggest weapon -- a massive armored vehicle headed for a chamber, lined with cinder blocks, where authorities hoped to find Koresh and Schneider and fire tear gas directly at them. Here the cult members' story diverges from the government's version. The FBI says cult members set fires in three places. But each of the six cult members, in separate discussions with lawyers, consistently gave versions at odds with the FBI's account. They say the tank flattened a barrel of propane, spilling its contents. And as the tank thundered through the house, it tipped over lit lanterns, spitting flames that ignited the propane and other flammables. The home of used lumber, plywood, and wallboard tacked together with tar paper was vulnerable. The building erupted. Nine BD's escaped jumping through windows and dashing through other openings. Others died groping in the blackness. Frank ",16 "Re: PLEASE! SHOW UP IN WASHINGTON DC FOR BOSNIA (MAY 15th) In article <1sredr$72b@venus.haverford.edu> Michael Sells writes: > ... I find it interesting that Mr. Major finds the genocide of two >million Muslims in Bosnia acceptable ... Now you are actually claiming that 2,000,000 Muslims have been killed in B-H??? Please substantiate this utterly ridiculous claim. -Nick ",17 "Re: XAllocColor fails to return nearest match In article 54297@slate.mines.colorado.edu, agallagh@slate.mines.colorado.edu (GALLAGHER ANDREA J ) writes: >[posted for a friend] > >Okay, I looked through the FAQs and didn't see this, but I know its >come up before... > >XAllocColor is supposed to do the following in order: > Try to find an exact match read-only color cell. (within hardware limits) > Try to allocate a read-only colorcell and set it to match. > and when all else fails, > Return the colorcell with the best match from the read-only colors > already allocated in the colormap. Where did you hear this? If it is printed in a book somewhere, throw away the book. According to the MIT specs, only the first 2 are true. --- Ken Lee, klee@synoptics.com ",5 "Re: Do we need the clipper for cheap security? gtoal@gtoal.com (Graham Toal) writes: >Can someone tell me if hardware compression is or is not needed to run >digital speech down 14.4K? I think it is; I've heard it's not. Lets >say 8 bit samples. Would *raw* data at the corresponding sampling rate >be usable? If not, how fancy does the compression need to be? It's all easy with a DSP. The Olivetti Quaderno, for example [*great* 1kg subnotebook/palmtop PC -- sorry for the plug, folks, but Olivetti don't seem to be doing a good job marketing it themselves :-)] includes sound digitisation hardware; they provide vocoders for their DSP which produce varous bit-rates. There's one which gives pretty acceptable voice quality at 13Kbit/sec, just right for a V.32bis modem. Their DSP can play and record at the same time, too -- so you wouldn't need to play ""two-way-radio"". You can also download code to the DSP subunit, though you'd need a software development kit for the DSP in question [dunno which it is...] if you wanted to produce your own vocoder for, say, V.32 speeds. Paul /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \ Paul Ducklin duck@nuustak.csir.co.za / / CSIR Computer Virus Lab + Box 395 + Pretoria + 0001 S Africa \ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ",11 "Re: Chromium as dietary suppliment for weight loss In article <1993Apr29.145140.10559@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, rhca80@melton.sps.mot.com (Henry Melton) writes: > > My wife has requested that I poll the Sages of Usenet to see what is > known about the use of chromium in weight-control diet suppliments. > She has seen multiple products advertising it and would like any kind > real information. > > My first impulse was ""Yuck! a metal!"" but I have zero data on it. > > What do you know? > > -- > Henry Melton I'll tell you all that I know about chromium. But before I do, I want to get a few things off my chest. I just got blasted in e-mail for my kidney stone posts. Kidney stones are primarily caused by diet, as is heart disease and cancer. When I give dietary advise, it is not intended to encourage people reading this news group(or Sci. Med. Nutrition where I do most of my posting) to avoid seeing a doctor. Nothing can be further from the truth. Kidney stones can be caused by tumors and this possibility has to be ruled out. But once it is, diet is a good way of preventing a reoccurance. Same thing with heart disease and cancer, if you suspect that you may have a problem with one of these diseases, don't use what I'm going to tell you or what you read in some book to avoid going to a doctor. You have to go. Hopefully you will find a doctor who knows enough about nutrition to help you change your risk factors for both diseases as part of a treatment program(but the odds are that you will not and that's why I'm here). When my wife detected a lump in here breast I didn't say, don't worry my vitamin E will take care of it. Any breast lump has to be worked up by a physician, plan and simple. If it's begnin(which most are) fine, then maybe a diet change and supplementation will prevent further breast lumps from occuring. But let me tell you right now, if you have tried diet and supplementation and another lump returns, get your butt into the doctor's office as fast as your little feet can carry you(better yet, have a mammography done on a regular basis, my wife kept putting her's off, both myself and her gynocologist told her she needed to have one done). Her gynocologist even scheduled one, but she didn't show up(too busy running the Operating Room for the biggest Hospital in Tulsa). One more thing, I am not an orthomolecular nutritionist. This group uses high dose vitamins and minerals to treat all kinds of disease. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that vitamins and minerals can and do have drug actions in the body. But you talk about flying blind, man this is really blind treatment. No drug could ever be used as these vitamins and minerals are being used. I'm not saying that some of this stuff couldn't be right on the money, it may well be. But my approach to nutrition is a lot like that of Weinsier and Morgan, the two M.D's who wrote the new Clinical Nutrition textbook. My push is the nutrient reserves and the lab tests needed to measure these reserves and then supplementation or diet changes to get these reserves built up to where they should be to let you handle stress. That's where I'm coming from folks. Blast away if you want, I'm not going to change. Put me in your killfile if you want, I really don't care. I'm averaging 8-10 e-mail messages a day from people who think that I've got something important to say. But I'm also getting hit by a few with an axe to grind. That's life. Chromium is one of the trace elements. It has a very limited(but very important) role in the body. It is used to form glucose tolerance factor (GTF). GTF is made up of chromium, nicinamide(niacin), glycine, cysteine and glutamic. Only the chromium and the niacin are needed from the diet to form GTF. Some foods already have GTF(Liver, brewers or nutritional yeast, and black pepper). When chromium is in GTF, a pretty good absorption is seen(about 20%). But when it is simply present as a mineral or mineral chelate(chromium picolinate) it's absorption is much lower(1 to 2%, lowest for all the minerals). I've been posting in Misc. Fitness and chromium has come up there several times as a ""fat burner"". Chromium is among the least toxic of the minerals so you could really load yourself up and not really do any harm. I wouldn't do it though. The adequate and safe range for chromium is 50 to 200ug per day. The average American is getting about 30ug per day from his/her diet. Chromium levels decrease with age and many believe that adult onset diabetes is primarily a chromium deficiency. I can cite you several studies that have been done with glucose tolerance in Type II diabetes but I'm not going to because for each positive one, there also seems to be a negative one as well. I'm convinced that the problem is bioavailability. When yeast(GTF) is used, good results are obtained but when chromium itself is used the results are usually negative. In addition to Type II diabetes, chromiuum has been examined in cardiovascular disease and glucoma, again with mixed results as far as cardiovascular disease is concerned Since a high blood glucose level can lead to cardiovascular disease, this possible link with chromium isn't too surprising. Glucoma is a little more interesting. Muscle eye focusing activity is primarily an insulin responsive glucose-driven metabolic function. If this eye focusing activity is impaired(by a lack of glucose due to a poor insulin response), intraocular pressure is believed to be elevated. In a fairly large study of 400 pts with glaucoma, the one consistent finding was a low RBC chromium. J. Am. Coll. Nutr. 10(5):536,(1991). But this one preliminary study should not prompt people to go out and start popping chromium supplements. For one thing, just about every older person is going to have a low RBC chromium unless they have been taking chromium suppleemnts(yeast). Since glucoma is often found in older people, it's not too surprising that chromium was low in the RBC's. If chromium supplementation could reverse glucoma, that would prompt some attention. I suspect that there will be a clinical trail to check out this possible chromium link to glucoma. You could find out what your body chromium pool size was by either the RBC chromium test or hair analysis. Most clinical labs are not going to run a RBC chromium. There are plenty of labs that will do a hair and nail analysis for you, but I wouldn't use them. There is just too much funny business going on in these unregulated labs right now. Here's Weinsier and Morgan, advise on chromium. They do not consider chromium to be one of those minerals for which a reliable clinical test is available(they don't like the hair and nail analysis labs either, and they also recognize the RBC chromium is primarily a research test that is not routinely available in most clinical chemistry labs). This has to change and as more labs run a RBC chromiuum, it will. What then do they suggest? Make a diagnosis of chromium deficiency based on a documented clinical response to chromium(run a glucose tolerance test before and after chromium supplementation). Once you make the diagnosis, put the patient on 200ug of CrCl3 orally each day or 10grams of yeast per day. What's my advise? Don't take chromium supplements to try to loose weight (they just do not work that way). If you want to take them and then exercise, that would be great. Do include yeast as part of your diet(most Americans are not getting enough chromium from their diet). If you do have a poor glucose tolerance, ask your doctor to check your chromium status. When he or she says, ""what in the world are you talking about"", just say, please get a copy of Weinsier and Morgan's new Clinical Nutrition textbook and do what they say to do with patients who present with a poor glucose tolerance. If you can't do that, I'll find a doctor who can, thank you very much. Marty B. ",13 "Re: was: Go Hezbollah!! amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi) writes: >In article eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: >> >>What the hell do you know about Israeli policy? What gives you the fiat >>to look into the minds of Israeli generals? Has this 'policy of intimidation' >>been published somewhere? For your information, the actions taken by Arabs, >>specifically the PLO, were not uncommon in the Lebanon Campaign of 1982. My >>brain is full of shit? At least I don't look into the minds of others and >>make Israeli policy for them! >> >... deleted >I am not in the business of reading minds, however in this case it would not >be necessary. Israelis top leaders in the past and present, always come across >as arrogant with their tough talks trying to intimidate the Arabs. How would you deal with Arabs who ALWAYS threaten to drive you into the sea or burn half your conuntry? Would you talk nicely? Would you say please? You wouldn't. The language of the middle east is power and force. Sorry - that is the way it is now. If you aren't strong, you go down. Israel has to talk and act tough. Notice, Israel talks and acts tough in battle, but is willing to talk peace. >The way I see it, Israelis and Arabs have not been able to achieve peace >after almost 50 years of fighting because of the following two major reasons: > 1) Arab governments are not really representative of their people, currently > most of their leaders are stupid, and/or not independent, and/or > dictators. True - and they have brainwashed their people into thinking Jews are some sort of monsters. Arab non-recognition of Israel and support of war and terror is also an important factor, wouldn't you say? > 2) Israeli government is arrogant and none comprising. What do you want Israel to do? They are negotating? I'm sick of people calling for Israel to withdraw from the territories now. That's not realistic, don't you realize that? A solution must be negotiated. It is on the table. Have patience. Ed. ",17 "Re: Countersteering_FAQ please post mjs@sys.uea.ac.uk (Mike Sixsmith) writes: mjs>No No No No!! All I am saying is that you don't even need to tell people mjs>the technique of countersteering, cos they will do it intuitively the first mjs>time they try to go round a corner. karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr) writes: karr>Are you sure? Remember that you *can* get around corners without karr>countersteering. In fact, my Experienced Rider Course instructors karr>claimed that they could get on behind a new rider and make the bike karr>turn to whichever side they wanted just by shifting their weight karr>around, even when the operator was trying to turn in the opposite karr>direction. (I admit I've never actually seen this.) I've experienced this, back when I was young(er) and (more) foolish... My first bike used to track extremely true. Going down the highway, I would set the throttle tension screw up enough to hold the gas steady, slide back on the seat and lean against the backrest, riding without any hands. If I needed to turn, I'd shift my weight into the turn, and lo and behold, the bike would turn, sans touching the bars! Granted, it wouldn't turn very fast, but it proves that you can turn a bike without countersteering, at least not in terms of the input to the bar normally associated with countersteering. As I've said, I know many people who think all you do is lean, and any input they're giving to the bar is totally unconscious. Whereas that may be sufficient to get you down the road under normal circumstances, possibly for years at a stretch, I can't think of anybody who'd argue that this is preferable to properly knowing how to manipulate the bar in a turn, regardless of what you want to call it. Except maybe for Mr. Sixsmith... ;^) Mr. Bill -- + Bill Leavitt, #224 + '82 CBX ""White Lightning"", '82 GS850G ""Suzibago"" + + leavitt@cs.umd.edu + '76 CJ360 ""Little Honda"", '68 Lone Star ""Sick Leave"" + + DoD AMA ICOA NIA + '69 Impala convertible ""The Incredible Hulk"", others + + ""Hmmm, I thought bore and stroke *was* the technique!"" Michael Bain, #757 + ",8 "Re: Aargh! Great Hockey Coverage!! (Devils) Robbie Po writes: >gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) says: >>Locked away, waiting for the tape-delay to start ... > >I think this guy is going to be just a little bit disappointed. Why? I'm calling this Penguins ... in 6. Only that with the way things stand, the only radio game at that hour is from the Devils on WABC, 770 AM. It'd be nice to have a Sony Watchman, but ... No need to be paranoid, Robbie. Don't judge me by my geographic coordinates ... Jets over Nordiques in the final ... 7. gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",10 "Re: Pregnency without sex? In article <1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU>, Harry Matthews writes... > > I've heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what > else is going on? Do you swim nude in a public swimming pool? :) I doubt sperm can penetrate swimsuit material, assuming they aren't immediately dispersed by water currents. -- Brian Tao:: taob@r-node.hub.org (r-Node BBS, 416-249-5366, FREE!) ::::::::::: 90taobri@wave.scar.utoronto.ca (University of Toronto) ",13 "Game Gear Games for sale/trade I have the following games for sale/trade. Make an offer. Crystal Warriors Junction Revenge of Drancon Psychic World Castle of Illusion (starring Micky Mouse) Chessmaster -- brian oplinger@ra.crd.ge.com <#include standard.disclaimer> ",6 "Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Atheists?) In article , bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes: |> This is fascinating. Atheists argue for abortion, Prove it. I am an atheist. It doesn't mean I am for or against abortion. |> defend homosexuality |> as a means of population control, An obvious effect of homosexuality is non-procreation. That, unlike your statement, is a fact. Please prove that (a) homosexuality is defended as means of population control, (b) being atheist causes you to hold these beliefs. I defend homosexuality because (a) what people do with their bodies is none of my business (b) I defend the equal rights of all humans. Do you? |> insist that the only values are |> biological Define values. Prove your statement. |> something is contardictory, it cannot exist, which in |> this case means atheists I suppose. Prove your statement. Electrons are waves. Electrons are particles. I believe in both. I have physical proof of both. I have no proof of god(tm) only an ancient book. That is not indicative of the existence of a being with omnipotence or omnipresence. And, by your own argument, christians don't exist. |> I would like to understand how an atheist can object to war (an |> excellent means of controlling population growth), or to capital |> punishment, I'm sorry but the logic escapes me. |> And why just capital punishment, what is being questioned here, the |> propriety of killing or of punishment? What is the basis of the |> ecomplaint? |> First of all, your earlier statements have absolutely nothing to do with your question. Why did you post them? To show that athiests, besides not existing (your view), are more humane than christians/other religions? Secondly I am very much for the control of population growth. The logic that you cannot grasp indicates ignorance of contraception. But of course, this is 'outlawed' (sometimes literally) by religion since if it can't create more followers, it will die. I |> Bill |> -- +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) | | eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! | +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",0 "Re: problem with xvertext package In article <1993Mar31.181357.28381@sierra.com> dkarr@sierra.com (David Karr) writes: king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes: >adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Andy Peters) writes: >>1) We're not just talking about proteins. In fact, we shouldn't be >>talking about proteins at all, since (if I have to say this again I'm >>goint to be really upset) *nobody*claims*that*proteins*appeared*de* >>*novo* >>the proteins did not form randomly. >> >Before I repond to 2.), Andy, please clarify 1.). You state that >proteins did not form randomly. That seems to be my point. Well, I am not Andy, but if you had familiarized yourself with some of the current theories/hypotheses about abiogenesis before posting :-), you would be aware of the fact that none of them claims that proteins were assembled randomly from amino acids. It is current thinking that RNA- based replicators came before proteinaceous enzymes, and that proteins were assembled by some kind of primitive translation machinery. Now respond to 2. :-) --Cornelius. -- /* Cornelius Krasel, Department of Physiological Chemistry, U Tuebingen */ /* email: krasel@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de */ /* ""People are DNA's way of making more DNA."" (R. Dawkins / anonymous) */ ",19 "proposed catcher re-sub rule A lot of teams carry 3 catchers on their 25 man roster, but the 3rd catcher is seldom ever used. He is only insurance in case of extra innings or the 2nd catcher is injured during a game. So to free up this roster spot for an extra pinch hitter or reliever, why not invoke a catcher re-substitution rule: If the last roster catcher on a team is injured during a game, the team is permitted to substitute in his place for defensive purposes a catcher who has previously been yanked from the game. Given this rule, a team wouldn't need 3 roster catchers. The 3rd catcher could be playing in AAA or be a non-roster bullpen catcher. Ken ",9 "Re: Juggling Dodgers In mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes: >>if this is true (note that i don't think it is), lasorda should be >>fired for at least two reasons: >> >> 1) publicly humiliating his players; >> 2) knuckling under to his players wishes. There is a fine line between ""getting players' input"" and ""knuckling under to players' demands."" A manager, much like a military officer, needs to have his (her) players' complete obedience and respect during a game. After the game, it's no big deal, but when there is no time to do more than react, players must trust the manager or the team often falls apart (see: Boston Red Sox, ff. :) ) Strawberry's demeanor as represented by the media, often sounds like demands. I suspect that a comment like ""I enjoy hitting fourth; I'm used to it"" would get pretty brutally misinterpreted by the media if it came from Strawberry. Russ Porter quoted Strawberry as saying, ""I feel more comfortable hitting cleanup and I think I perform best in that role."" (Paraphrased by my memory and bias.) That seems like a fairly non-petulant answer to what was almost certainly a question like, ""How do you feel about being moved to the third spot in the order?"" A more media-sensitive player might answer ""The manager knows what he is doing. If he thinks that batting me third will help the team, then I am all for it."" We'd ignore that answer as brown stuff, so it seems a little bit of an overreaction to brand Darryl's response as petulant. Personally, I think his argument is nonsense and that it really doesn't matter much in which order the #2-5 players in the order are batted, except for personal stats. If I were Darryl, I'd probably answer that question, ""The number four spot gets a few more RBI opportunities and I get paid for RBIs. I think it is best for me to bat fourth, but I am willing to hit third if Tommy thinks it will benefit the team."" or something like that. It would be helpful at salary time--my RBIs were down because I was hitting third--and make him sound like a ""team"" player. Since Strawberry will not likely go through arbitration, but use the free agent market for his next contract, maybe that argument is useless, but it would help his image with the media without appearing to be totally content-free. Remember, the media is of the belief that one's best RBI man should hit fourth, so the argument is sensible, regardless of whether or not it is true. --Jeff ",9 "Re: Dreams and Degrees (was Re: Crazy? or just Imaginitive?) higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: ... >Like others involved in sci.space, Mr. Adams shows symptoms of being a >fledgling member of the technoculture, and I think he's soaking it up >fast. I was a young guy with dreams once, and they led me to get a >technical education to follow them up. Too bad I wound up in an >assembly-line job stamping out identical neutrinos day after day... >(-: How can you tell they're identical? You got one of them ""Star Drek: The Next Syndication"" neutrino scanners? -- Phil Fraering |""Seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|Like how the ancient Mayans had televison."" Repo Man ",14 "Need Reference: Multiple Personalities Disorders and Allergies I heard third-hand (not the best form of information) that there was recently published results of a study on Multiple-Personality-Disorder Syndrome patients revealing some interesting clues that the root cause of allergy may have a psychological trigger or basis. What I heard about this study was that in one 'personality', a MPDS patient exhibited no observable or clinical signs of inhalant allergy (scratch tests were used, according to what I heard), while in other personalities they showed obvious allergy symptoms, including testing a full ++++ on scratch tests for particular inhalants. If this is true, it is truly fascinating. But, I'd like to know if this study was ever done, and if so, what the study really showed, and where the study is published. Any help out there? Jon Noring -- Charter Member --->>> INFJ Club. If you're dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I'll send info. ============================================================================= | Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | | | JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE | | 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World's Best! | | Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | | ============================================================================= Who are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That's where the action is. ",13 "Changing oil on Virago (Was: Yamaha vs Honda opinions) aa963@Freenet.carleton.ca (Lloyd Carr) writes: >In a previous article, phj@remus.rutgers.edu (P. Ju) says: >>nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes: >> >>the brake pedal, &c. &c.) I've pretty much decided never to get this >>particular model unless he or someone else wants to change the oil/filter >>for me. Compared to the 5-minute change he was used to for his Honda, this >>is just a design flaw/oversight in my eyes. >> >Sure don't know what bike was being worked on but it sure wasn't a >Virago. I've owned both the 750 and 1100 and you can do the filter >change in about 5 mins and nothing has to be removed. Well, watching several Denizen's dismantle Laurie's Virago in an attempt to change the oil at the ride 'n feed a few years back was a pretty funny site. Surely with the combined wisdom of all these folks they weren't doing things the hard way, were they? -- Paul Thompson Apple Computer ",8 "Looking for a good book for beginners I wanted to know if any of you out there can recommend a good book about graphics, still and animated, and in VGA/SVGA. Thanks in advance -- Mohammad R. Khan / khan0095@nova.gmi.edu After July '93, please send mail to mkhan@nyx.cs.du.edu ",1 "Re: Life on Mars. In article <2534@tdbunews.teradata.COM| swf@elsegundoca.ncr.com writes: | |No if you're Fred Hoyle. He rejects the Big Bang, and proposes an infinitely |old universe (*really*), so in his model life *always* starts on a given planet |by seeding from outer space - there has *always* been life somewhere. | Didn't Fred Hoyle abandon the steady state theory? -- Bruce Watson (wats@scicom.alphaCDC.COM) ",14 "WC 93: Results, April 22 1993 World Championships in Germany: ==================================== Group A results: RUSSIA - SWITZERLAND 6-0 (2-0,1-0,3-0) 1st: RUS 1-0 Alexei Yashin 1 5:23 RUS 2-0 Alexei Yashin 2 16:45 2nd: RUS 3-0 Ilia Biakin 1 7:13 3rd: RUS 4-0 Andrei Khomutov 3 3:47 RUS 5-0 Ilia Biakin 2 4:13 RUS 6-0 Sergei Sorokin 1 13:50 Penalties: RUS 7*2min 1*5min game penalty, SWI 9*2min Referee: Rob Hearn, USA Attendance: 3,500 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - CANADA - AUSTRIA 11-0 (6-0,2-0,3-0) 1st: CAN 1-0 Shayne Corson 1 9:51 CAN 2-0 Rod Brind'Amour 2 10:24 CAN 3-0 Paul Kariya 1 12:42 CAN 4-0 Gerry Galley 1 18:23 CAN 5-0 Eric Lindros 2 19:11 CAN 6-0 Rod Brind'Amour 3 19:46 2nd: CAN 7-0 Eric Lindros 3 0:31 CAN 8-0 Eric Lindros 4 8:50 3rd: CAN 9-0 Brian Savage 1 13:37 CAN 10-0 Brian Benning 1 16:26 CAN 11-0 Geoff Sanderson 3 17:55 Penalties: CAN 2*2min, AUT 2*2min Attendance: 7,500 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USA - FRANCE 6-1 (3-1,1-0,2-0) 1st: FRA 0-1 Antoine Richer 1 5:02 USA 1-1 Adam Burt 1 8:32 USA 2-1 Rob Gaudreau 1 18:15 USA 3-1 Jeff Lazaro 1 18:29 2nd: USA 4-1 Adam Burt 2 10:54 3rd: USA 5-1 Shjon Podein 1 8:03 USA 6-1 Rob Gaudreau 2 16:25 Penalties: USA 3*2min, FRA 2*2min Referee: Darren Loraas, Canada Attendance: 1,511 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - FINLAND - NORWAY 2-0 (0-0,0-0,2-0) 1st: 2nd: 3rd: FIN 1-0 Juha Riihijarvi 1 4:16 FIN 2-0 Kari Harila 1 12:37 Penalties: FIN 5*2min, NOR 7*2min Referee: Sven-Erik Sold, Sweden Attendance: 3,600 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The best goal scorers: Eric Lindros CAN 4 Rod Brind'Amour CAN 3 Dieter Hegen GER 3 Andrei Khomutov RUS 3 Geoff Sanderson CAN 3 Ilia Biakin RUS 2 Adam Burt USA 2 Viacheslav Bykov RUS 2 Jiri Dolezal CZE 2 Mike Gartner CAN 2 Rob Gaudreau USA 2 Patrik Juhlin SWE 2 Frank Pajonkowski FRA 2 Bernd Truntschka GER 2 Jarkko Varvio FIN 2 Alexei Yashin RUS 2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some WC stats: * Fastest goal in a WC game after first face-off: 10 seconds: Steve Larmer, Canada 1991 in a game vs Sweden (ended 3-3) Boris Michailov, USSR 1978 * Most consecutive WC games without a loss: 47: USSR 1978-85 38: USSR 1963-68 37: Canada 1937-49 35: USSR 1985-90 27: Canada 1950-54 -- ((\\ //| Staffan Axelsson \\ //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se \\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey ",10 "Re: Israel's Expansion II In article <1993Apr22.093527.15720@donau.et.tudelft.nl> avi@duteinh.et.tudelft.nl (Avi Cohen Stuart) writes: >From article <93111.225707PP3903A@auvm.american.edu>, by Paul H. Pimentel : >> What gives Isreal the right to keep Jeruseleum? It is the home of the muslim a >> s well as jewish religion, among others. Heck, nobody ever mentions what Yitza >> k Shamir did forty or fifty years ago which is terrorize westerners much in the >> way Abdul Nidal does today. Seems Isrealis are nowhere above Arabs, so theref >> ore they have a right to Jerusaleum as much as Isreal does. > > >There is one big difference between Israel and the Arabs, Christians in this >respect. > >Israel allows freedom of religion. > >Avi. >. >. Avi, For your information, Islam permits freedom of religion - there is no compulsion in religion. Does Judaism permit freedom of religion (i.e. are non-Jews recognized in Judaism). Just wondering. Steve ",17 "Re: A question about 120VAC outlet wiring.. In article <1993Apr15.212629.1834@cmkrnl.com> jeh@cmkrnl.com writes: >In article <1993Apr14.172145.27458@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>, crisp@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Russ Crisp) writes: >> I'm considering modernizing some old wiring in my home, and >> I need a little advice on outlet wiring. Several outlets >> are the old 'two prong' type, without the ground. Naturally, >> the wire feeding these outlets is 12/2, WITHOUT the ground >> wire. I noticed at the fusebox that some circuits have the >> 12/2 with ground, and that on these circuits, the ground >> wire was tied to the same bus as the neutral (white) wire. > >They are supposed to be connected together at the breaker panel... but nowhere, >repeat NOwhere, else. (Well, almost. There are strange exceptions for things >like sub-panels.) > > > --- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA >Internet: jeh@cmkrnl.com Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh CIS: 74140,2055 > Not even in sub panels! The only place the neutral should be connected to the ground is in a SERVICE DISCONNECT! In your house the ""main"" panel serves as the service disconnect. Sub panles in your garage or workshop for example must maintain seperate neutral and ground busses because they are not service disconnect equipment. Steve Woodard, KD2KQ - not a licensed electrician, but I can read the NEC book. (my brother is though) :) ",12 "Re: Who has read Rushdie's _The Satanic Verses_? perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes: > Anyway, since I seem to be the only one following this particular line > of discussion, I wonder how many of the rest of the readership have > read this book? What are your thoughts on it? I bought a copy of The Satanic Verses when there was talk of the British Government banning it. There's nothing interests me in a book more than making it illegal. However, it's still sitting on my shelf unread. Perhaps I'll get round to it soon. I've still got a pile of Lem, Bulgakov and Zamyatin to go through; I don't find nearly enough time to read. In fact, there are far more interesting things to do than I can ever find time for; how anyone ever manages to be bored is beyond me. If I didn't have to sleep, maybe I could manage it. mathew -- Atheism: Anti-virus software for the mind. ",0 "Re: Israeli Terrorism In article amoss@shuldig.cs.huji.ac.il (Amos Shapira) writes: >eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes: >|Not exactly the same, but reminiscent of the assassination of Count >|Bernadotte, who was _the_ UN negotiator during the 1948 Israeli war of >|independence. He was killed by the Israelis. Seems he was being too >|successful in negotiating a cease-fire, which would have worked >|territorially against the nascent Israel, compared to continued war. >That operation was done by a small Jewish fraction BEFORE the state even >existed and, as far as I remember, was disaproved by most of the Jews. > >Saying that ""He was killed by the Israelis"" is plain wrong because there wasn't >""Israel"" at the time. Look up the facts first, post second. Bernadotte was assassinated in September 1948 by Lehi under the orders of its three commanders (one of whom was Yitzhak Shamir). There is no hard evidence of complicity of the Israeli government despite some effort by the UN and other organizations (US intelligence, Swedish government) to find it. However a great fuss was made over the apparent lack of zeal of the Israeli government to track down the killers. The Lehi man who actually pulled the trigger later became a personal friend of David Ben-Gurion. The best published account in English is A. Ilan, Bernadotte in Palestine, 1948 (Macmillan, 1989). >--Amos Shapira (Jumper Extraordinaire) Brendan. ",17 "Mac monitor **WANTED** Wanted: color monitor >= 14"" suitable for use on a Macintosh Centris 610. I am planning on purchasing one of these machines soon and don't want to have to pay full price for a new monitor when a used one will do me just as well. If you have one you'd like to part with, please email me with the specs and price. Thanks. Roger rsjoyce@eos.ncsu.edu ",6 "Help on bitmaps I wonder if anyone can tell me whether or not I can create a bitmap of any size? I followed the bitmap creation example in SDK manual and specified a 24x24 bitmap (set the width/height to 24) and supplied a byte string with 72 chars. But I just cannot get the right bitmap image. I changed the width/height to 32x32 and used the same value string (padded with zero byets to make up to the right size) and got the image. The example in the manual is 64x32 size, which are multiple of 2 bytes. Can you define a bitmap image of any size? Thanks very much. G Chen chen@citr.uq.oz.au -- G. Chen, Centre for Information Technology Research, University of Queensland, Australia 4072 chen@citr.uq.oz.au Tel: +61 7 365 4325, Fax +61 7 365 4399 ",2 "Smoker's Lungs How long does it take a smoker's lungs to clear of the tar after quitting? Does your chances of getting lung cancer decrease quickly or does it take a considerable amount of time for that to happen? ",13 "Emu Sampler For Sale Emu Emax II Rackmount Sampler w/ 16 Bit Stereo Sampling 3 stereo inputs, 6 outs. Internal Sequencer 32 voice polyphony 170 meg internal HD Stock ram (2 meg I think) Perfect Condition 5 months old 1600 obo ",6 "Re: Disillusioned Protestant Finds Christ In a previous article, tom@tredysvr.Tredydev.Unisys.COM (Tom Albrecht) says: >In article <1qb726$j9d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu< cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: >< > >So Jesus must have lied to the thief on the cross. Paradise and salvation are not the same thing. Salvation is better. Refer to John 14:2. >-- >Tom Albrecht > -- ------------ John W. Redelfs, cj195@cleveland.freenet.edu ------------- --------- All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --------- ",19 "Re: Space Manuevering Tug (was HST servicing mission_) In article <1rnaih$jvj@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: > > Given that what i described for the HST seemed to be the SMT, and given > the mass amrgins on the discovery mission is tight enough that spacewalking > has to be carefully constrained..... No EDO pallets, no spare Suits, > no extra MMU's. > > WHy not do this? > > Quick Test Goldins philosophjy of faster cheaper, better. > > Build a real fast Space TUg, to handle the re-boost of the HST using > clean Cryo fuels, and get it ready before the HST mission. > > If NASA could build Mercury in 13 months, they should be able to make > an SMT in 9. > > How much would it need? > > Guidance package. Use a Voyager spare. > > Thruster gear, Use H2O2, or LOX/LH. > > Bus Use a Commsat. > > Grapple fixture. Use a stripped down Canadarm. > > Comms package. SPare X-band omni gear. > > pat And then why not build a space dock.. Either inflated or not.. some place a crew can work on a item without having to wear much of the items they have to for spae.. such as most of he bulky suit.. More idea to come.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ",14 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article myers@cs.scarolina.edu (Daniel Myers) writes: >I am under the impression that MSG ""enhances"" flavor by causing the >taste buds to swell. No, that's not how it works. >If this is correct, I do not find it unreasonable >to assume that high doses of MSG can cause other mouth tissues to swell. This may be through a different mechanism. >Also, as the many of the occurances (including two of the above) >involved beef, and as beef is frequently tenderized with MSG, this is >what I suspect as being the cause. Tenderizing beef involves sprinking or marinading it in papain, an enzyme. ""Meat tenderizer"" packets might contain papain and MSG and seasonings, but MSG doesn't act as a tenderizer. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer ",13 "Re: 17"" Monitors mikey@eukanuba.wpd.sgi.com (Mike Yang) writes: >In article <1qulqa$hp2@access.digex.net>, rash@access.digex.com (Wayne Rash) writes: >|> The F550iW is optimized for Windows. It powers down when the screen >|> blanker appears, it powers down with you turn your computer off, and it >|> meets all of the Swedish standards. It's also protected against EMI from >|> adjacent monitors. >Thanks for the info. >|> Personally, I think the F550i is more bang for the buck right now. >How much more does the F550iW cost? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mike Yang Silicon Graphics, Inc. > mikey@sgi.com 415/390-1786 I think the difference is about 400 dollars, but I could be wrong. These things change between press time and publication. ",3 "Re: Do we need the clipper for cheap security? Quoting pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) in article <1993Apr21.012011.27470@shearson.com>: >Whats the difference between a V.32bis modem and a V.32bis modem? How fast do the fastest modems go? How far can voice be compressed? I've seen various assertions about this, but anyone with the straightforward bits-per-second figures will be my friend forever... __ _____ \/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \\ // /\__/ Trust me. I know what I'm doing. \X/ Fold a fish for Jesus! ",11 "Re: I thought commercial Advertising was Not allowed |> [ debate deleted ] I guess it is allowed. ",18 "Wanted: Sim City for PC Hello there, I am looking for Sim City for PC (new/used). Please make your offer to cchu@udel.edu. Thanks ! chu ",6 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes: >And some people thought that I am exaggerating when claiming that the >Cripple Chip is just a first step in a totalitarian plot against the >civil liberties in the USA... It seems that I've even been an optimist >- the things are happening even faster than I expected.... That's >another of the dirty tricks they used to apply on us under the >communist regime - do something secret, THEN tell the people about is >(after the fact, when nothing can be done any more), and of course, >explaining them how much better the situation is now... > >In my previous messages I wrote that the Americans should wake up and >fight against the new proposal. Now it seems to me that it is already >too late - it has already happened, the civil liberties have been >violated, no, stollen from the American people, while the most part of >this people has been sleeping happily... :-((( Too sad... As one of the happily sleeping people, I would just like to ask this-> aren't people just slightly overreacting to this? Or are we all of a sudden going to draw parallels to Nazi Germany and Communist Russia? The point of the matter is that; yes this is a serious problem. But it is not the end of the world. Guess what? We're doing something now you can't do in a Communist country or Nazi Germany. We're complaining about it, (or rather, you're complaining about it) and nobody is shooting at us. (Or, rather, if they're shooting at me, they have real bad aim. (:-) ) GUESS WHAT PEOPLE? You live in one of the few countries in the world where a person can complain without getting shot at. People are always complaining that somebody did this wrong, or somebody did that wrong, or whatever. Sit down and figure out two things: 1) What have they done right? 2) How much worse can it get? And you'll find that you and I, are pretty damn lucky. So let's talk about it, get some action going, decide what's going on. But let's not overreact! > >Regards, >Vesselin >-- >Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg >Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226 Fachbereich Informatik - AGN >< PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C >e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany -- Jerry Han-CRC-DOC-Div. of Behavioural Research-""jhan@debra.dgbt.doc.ca"" ///////////// These are my opinions, and my opinions only. \\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\ A proud and frozen member of the Mighty Warriors Band //////// ""Memories of those I've left behind, still ringing in my ears.""-Genesis- ",11 "Re: free moral agency In article , kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: >In article <1r98voINNr9q@lynx.unm.edu> cfaehl@vesta.unm.edu (Chris Faehl) writes: > >>> The myth to which I refer is the convoluted counterfeit athiests have >>> created to make religion appear absurd. >> You don't need any counterfeit athiest's myth to make religion appear absurd. You need only read any of friendly Christian Bill Conner's posts. -- jim halat halat@bear.com bear-stearns --whatever doesn't kill you will only serve to annoy you-- nyc i speak only for myself ",0 "Re: WANTED: 24 bit viewer In article <5731@seti.inria.fr>, deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud) writes: |> |> Thanks to the people who helped me with the problem of |> displaying 24 bit images. All the viewers like xli, |> xloadimage and display are converting the 24 bit images |> to 8 bit before display them on the screen. |> |> What I really want is a viewer with make use of the 24 bit |> frame/screen buffer (in our case, the Parallax one). |> Try ImageMagick. I cannot test it but one told me it does 24bit. Anyway, are you SURE your Xserver supports 24bit TrueColor visuals ? Check with xdpyinfo ! -- +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ | o | \\\- Brain Inside -/// | o | | o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o | | o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o | +-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+ ",1 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. I change login passwords every couple of months. I sure would suck if I had to get a new sparc station everytime I wanted to do this. It seems that this is what they expect you to do if you want to routinely change your password on your phone. I'm sure the government contractor doesn't mind, but a system where you can cheaply change keys (DES) has inherent security advantages, regardless of the algorithms involved. -- -Tim Cuffel Finger for PGP 2.1 The CIA has admitted that the assassination of Saddam Hussien was one of their goals. They failed, of course. Seems as though that motorcade through downtown Dallas trick only works once. ",11 "Nintendo system (w/ Super Mario) $50 +shipping /obo ",6 "Re: Patrick Playoffs Look Like This Jan Brittenson writes: >last year. The Pens' weak spot is defense and goaltending -- if Boston ... > Boston doesn't have the guns of the Pens, but the Pens doesn't have >the defense, goaltending, and discipline of Boston. Still, Boston can Why do you say this? As of now, the Pens and Bruins have played the same number of games, and given up the same number of goals. They are tied for the third and fourth best defenses in the league, behind Chicago first and Toronto second. The Pens' weak spot is defense? Only by comparison to their offense, which is second in the league to Detroit. But the Pens are no weaker on defense and goaltending than the Bruins are; that is, they are both very strong. Terry ",10 "xterm slave mode I am tunning into this newgroup after a long time. Could somebody tell me what the slave mode in the xterm is? and what can it be used for? Any info where I can get more info or examples. I want to use a bunch of xterms and send the input from one application to these xterms and get the output on the xterms. Please email me any info. Thanks, Lourdu ",5 "Re: BB Confessions. In article <1993Apr18.022218.17318@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> ahmeda@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Ahmed Abu-Abed) writes: > >In article , eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: >|> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes: >|> >|> >|> >In a previous article, friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) says: >|> >|> >> >|> >>For all those interested, I would like to inform all that Binyamin Netanyahu >|> >>(leader of the Israeli Likud party) will be interviewed on CNN tonight on >|> >>Larry King Live. >|> >|> >|> >didn't this guy go crying on the ""zionist"" tv confessing >|> >that he committed adultary, and was cheating on his wife.. >|> >|> >a typical jew leader, huh? >|> >|> Yes. He is. Actually, the typical Muslim/Arab leader hides the fact that he >|> commited adultery by choosing a camel over his husband (or a small male child, >|> whichever is more readily availible). >|> >|> >-- >|> > ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________ >|> > (______ _ | _ |_ >|> >_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | | >|> >|> Ed. >|> > >But the irony is that the Jewish population has no problem in electing >a leader who has CONFESSED to having an extra marrital affair. > >This is a first. > >AA. >. >. What else do you expect? Israel is trying to portray itself as the great democracy. One requirement is to have a leader who previously had an extra-marital affair (e.g. Bill Clinton) It helps if your wife says it's OK. Steve ",17 "Re: Rewording the Second Amendment (ideas) dfo@vttoulu.tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes: >You believe that individuals should have the right to own weapons of >mass destruction? I find it hard to believe that you would support a >neighbor's right to keep nuclear weapons, biological weapons, and nerve >gas on his/her property. That really depends upon where you draw the line while defining these weapons, and also on if you intend the law to be reflective of modern practice five months or five centuries down the road. I'll give you a little hint: see that manure pile in the farmer's field down the road? In the USA, that is a weapon of mass destruction, biological in nature, because if it gets washed into an open well it will contaminate the aquifers that supply thousands of cities with drinking water. So, where do *you* draw the line? In the USA, the EPA has ruled that a pile of scrap iron is illegal. Care to draw a thinner line this time? < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > ",16 "Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance?? >In article <1993Apr22.145940.1@skcla.monsanto.com> mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes: >>If you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your >>tires rebalanced?? >> >>John Mas >> >> >>E-Mail Address :: MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM >> > I bought a set of ARE's a few months back and decided to add locks so that I could keep my new rims. I haven't had a balance problem yet so I assume that it might be just particular to your type of stock nuts. My rims were balanced with new BFG T/A's at a speed shop to the finest setting on their bal. machine, so that helps too. Zauberer aka. Travis T. ",7 "Re: Dirty Diesels? hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu) writes: >In article , nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes: >|> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than >|> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide, >|> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen. (CO, HC, NOX). >|> >|> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter. I heard >|> something about legislation being discussed to ""clean up >|> diesel emissions"". Is there anything in the works to >|> install ""scrubbers"" for diesels? How about the feasibility >|> of installing them on trucks and cars? Would it be any >|> different than a catylitic converter? I'd assume easier, >|> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting >|> gasses. Let's hear people's opinions... >This really bugs me. The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle, >but they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars >in California. What a bunch of crap. Diesel is the fuel of choice for >enviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason. > >The particulates are nothing but carbon. They are just an annoyance at worst. >Nothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine >durability. It's also cheaper. Just to clear things up (as to why I posted the question that way)... I was debating with a co-worker about diesels. I claimed they were cleaner-burning than gas engines. He said the extra ""junk"" put out by them was offset by the savings in greenhouse gasses. I made all the SAME claims you did. But, one question of his was what about the carbon? I said it was harmless, but he wanted to know how to get rid of it. I suggested scrubbers. (I figured it would be no harder or more expensive to install than ""cats"".) Does there exist any designs for a scrubber? (I'd like to know just to answer his final question.) I convinced him that diesels are cleaner otherwise. BTW, (I named my subject ""Dirty Diesels"" because I knew it would get a reaction out of people who knew they were cleaner than gas engines and that they'd read it...) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Vel Natarajan nataraja@rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",7 "Re: Clipper considered harmful [Restated and amplified] >If the crooks use an innocent person's clipper phone on the tapped line >there's no problem. The Feds don't care whose phone instrument is used, just >that the conversation is by the suspect on the tapped line. They get the >serial number, get the keys, and they are in business. > >No clipper chip to person association is ever needed. Yeah, but who wants to start a pool on the first person arrested mistakenly and has their life turned upside-down because some law enforcement agency *does* make a chip::person association? I wonder if there are any plans to keep these records (e.g. encode the serial number into the UPC scanned at K-Mart along with the credit card info, voila.) At least your phone number tends to only locate to your house or whatever (i.e. to be coming from your telephone number the person likely is in your house etc.), plus or minus some shenanigans of course. But I'd hate to think of these guys getting the clipper id, recording the conversation, then doing a quick cross-lookup and your name comes up as owner of that id (mistakenly, maybe you sold the phone at a garage sale or the phone was stolen from your car or whatever.) They might only know who one side of the conversation is, for example. Anyone who thinks the govt is forbidden by law to cross-correlate such databases loses two points. First, law enforcement agencies can of course do this. Second, they're only forbidden from BUDGETING any money for it. The IRS, for example, does do this anyhow. They just don't spend any money on it so it's (technically) legal I guess. Instead they probably trade little favors with companies like mastercard (if you're the IRS I'll bet you have a *lot* of opportunities to trade favors with major corps for their databases.) I know, an IRS guy read an amazing list off to me (from his screen, I could hear him typing to pull up each screen) once on the phone during a dispute I had with them (to intimidate me, actually, not much of a dispute, I didn't particularly disagree, but for some reason this fellow wanted to play tough guy with me, I hope he's better now.) Amazing stuff he had at his finger tips. Be afraid. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@world.std.com | uunet!world!bzs Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD ",11 "Re: Why DC-1 will be the way of the future. Hmmm. I seem to recall that the attraction of solid state record- players and radios in the 1960s wasn't better performance but lower per-unit cost than vacuum-tube systems. Mind you, my father was a vacuum-tube fan in the 60s (Switched to solid-state in the mid-seventies and then abruptly died; no doubt there's a lesson in that) and his account could have been biased. James Nicoll ",14 "Re: Ideas on Clipper Jim Gillogly writes: > In article <0fpiZBG00WC70qOKYw@andrew.cmu.edu> you write: > >suppose i knew how the algorithm worked and knew the N for my chip, but > >did not know F, then by cryptanalysis i might be able to determine F from > >if law enforcement field > > E[E[K; U] + N; F] > >not knowing N would might make this much harder. > > They're betting that you can't do this, even if you know N. Even if you > know E, in fact, which they're trying to keep secret. If you can find E > by grinding down the chip, presumably you can find F as well. But we can't > do this right now with DES, even knowing the encryption method without > doing almost the whole 56-bit search. That is not true, with chosen plaintext attacks DES keys can be determined without the full search. > > >Now suppose that I know F, (either legitimately or not), > >If I know K (either because I am involved in the conversation, or I know U > >for a party in the conversation), I may now be able to determine U for the > >other party. > > Again, they're betting that you can't find U given K -- i.e. they claim the > encryption is strong. (Trust us...) I am not willing to take that bet. > >If I know F I can also defeat the law enforcement field, since I could > >make my own, with a different K then the one I am using. Knowing F also > >allows traffic analysis to be performed. So I might not know what you are > >saying but I could know who you are saying it too. > > I'm not sure there'll be a way to shove arbitrary key and data through your > chip, but if so, this part's OK. (We're assuming E is unknown.) You can obviously shove arbitrary data through your chip...... As for the key, it is stated that the sesion key exchange is external to the chip, so I can pick my keys too. > >Now I admit that someone trying to compute U will not have lots of > >messages to work from, but since we have no way of knowing that the key > >generation method does not (deliberately?) generate weak keys, or for that > >matter that the published method is in fact used, perhaps the U's will be > >chosen from know weak keys for the system. > > They assume that you won't be able to find U no matter how many messages > you have. If could break U, they wouldn't need the key escrow. BING BING BING BING BING, THAT EXACTLY MY POINT, SINCE WE CANT KNOW THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THIS CAPABILITY, THE ONLY SAFE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THEY DO... i admit that most of my cryptographic complaints are probably unfounded, but since we cant know one way or the other, im not gonig to take their word for it.... > >Obviously the compromise of F would be a disaster, both to law enforcement > >for whom this whole thing is designed, and for the people who believe that > >it is giving them security. F is but one number, and I sure that alot of > >people (more then 1) know what it is (and if some ""panel of experts"" is > >going to check it over for flaws then many more will know F, forget > >grinding chips, bribery and blackmail work just fine. > > It's not clear that the ""experts"" will be told F. In fact, I'd be surprised. > I'd expect something more of the form of the FIPS pub describing DES, so that > they could look at the algorithm in general, rather than with the specific > set of keys chosen. Oh come on, thats like saying you could evaluate DES without the S-box constants..... jon ",11 "Re: What is AT BUS CLK Speed? In article <12934.73.uupcb@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us> robert.desonia@hal9k.ann-arbor.mi.us (Robert Desonia) writes: > >S >There is one param in the bios setup that says AT BUS CLK. I have >clock, which is beyond ISA specs, but may be ok if all of the cards can >run that fast. I would set it to 3 ( in fact I did ) and set it back if >anything acts weird ( e.g. you get unexplainable floppy drive errors, your >modem locks up, you have video problems, etc. ). If you overdrive the AT >bus, then that should be the first thing to check if you get an error on >your system. > >It is pretty safe to overdrive your AT bus, as long as your ISA cards >still work flawlessly. I suggest backing up your HD before playing with >it though. On my 486DX-50 (really 50, not DX2), my AT bus is set to CLK/3. At 16.67 MHz, I have no problems. Soundblaster Pro, Zoom 14.4 FXM, RLL controller, etc. All work fine. If I set it to 2 (25 MHz), I simply don't get past the POST routines. I doubt you could actually damage much by playing with it. Allen ",3 "Re: re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article bferrell@cicada.occ.uc.edu (Brett Ferrell) writes: >In article jack@feenix.metronet.com (Jack Hudler) writes: >>Still after the impact of all the ITO's at IBM, all that's left of its >>employee base are the deadbeats! I suspect we'll see 2.1 about 1st quarter >>94. >Boy are you going to look silly in a couple of weeks. Perhaps. ;-) ",2 "HICN611 Medical News Part 4/4 ------------- cut here ----------------- call for employers to keep information about the HIV status of health-care workers confidential. But doctors who know of an HIV-positive colleague who has not sought advice must inform the employing authority and the appropriate professional regulatory body. The guidelines also emphasize the significance of notifying all patients on whom an invasive procedure has been done by an infected health-care worker. A model letter to patients who have come into contact with such an individual is provided, along with suggestions for health officials on how to deal with the media. In addition, a U.K. advisory panel on HIV infection in health-care workers has been formed to provide specific occupational recommendations to those treating such patients. ================================================================== ""Properties of an HIV 'Vaccine'"" Nature (04/08/93) Vol. 362, No. 6420, P. 504 (Volvovitz, Franklin and Smith, Gale) The questions raised by Moore et al. about recombinant gp160 envelope glycoprotein precursor from HIV-1 produced by MicroGeneSys are advantages rather than disadvantages, write Franklin Volvovitz and Gale Smith of MicroGeneSys in Meriden, Conn. Moore et al. says that gp160 in a baculovirus expression system does not bind strongly to the CD4 receptor, and that this recombinant gp160 does not stimulate the same antibodies as the HIV-1 virus does in natural infection. But vaccination with recombinant gp160 in patients infected with HIV-1 broadens HIV-1 specific envelope-directed immune responses, including crossreactive antibodies to gp160 epitopes and CD4 and CD8 cytotoxic T-cell responses. Volvovitz and Smith claim that they never intended their gp160 molecule to be identical to the native protein. Antibody responses against native HIV-1 proteins, including the types described by Moore et al., exist in nearly all AIDS patients but do not prevent HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 42 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 progression of HIV disease. In addition, the binding of gp120 or gp120- antibody complexes to CD4 has been shown to interfere with antigen specific activation of CD4 cells and trigger programmed cell death in vitro, which may contribute to the pathogenesis of HIV infection. The absence of CD4 binding by the MicroGeneSys gp160 vaccine may therefore be viewed as an added safety feature. Phase I studies have demonstrated stable CD4 counts, stimulation of cytotoxic T cells, and the suggestion of restoration of immune function. Based on these and other clinical results, MicroGeneSys gp160 was chosen by researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden for the first phase III vaccine therapy studies, conclude Volvovitz and Smith. ================================================================== ""HIV-1 Infection: Breast Milk and HIV-1 Transmission"" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 930 (Mok, Jacqueline) There are still more questions than answers regarding HIV-1-positive women breastfeeding their babies, writes Jacqueline Mok of the Lancet. The anti-infective properties of milk are well documented. While the numbers of leukocytes, concentrations of lactoferrin and IgA, and lymphocyte mitogenic activity decline sharply during the first two to three months of lactation to barely detectable levels, lactoferrin and IgA then increase from three to twelve months, with 90 percent of total IgA in milk being secretory IgA. Breastfeeding protects infants against gastrointestinal and respiratory illnesses, in both normal and uninfected children born to HIV-positive mothers. The Italian National Registry of AIDS discovered that breastfed HIV- 1 infected children had a longer median incubation time (19 months) than bottlefed infants (9.7 months). Breastfed children also had a slower progression to AIDS. There is no agreement on which antibodies offer protection against HIV-1 infection. Studies of the biological properties of milk from 15 HIV-1 infected women showed the presence of IgG and IgA antibodies against envelope glycoproteins, as well as IgA antibodies against core antigens. Binding of HIV-1 to the CD4 receptor can be inhibited by a human milk factor. In the developing world, where infectious disease and malnutrition contribute significantly to infant mortality, breast milk is still the best food for infants, regardless of the mother's HIV status. Transmission might be restricted by breastfeeding after colostrum and early milk have been expressed and discarded. The possibility remains that breast milk could protect the infant who is already infected with HIV at birth and may even delay progression to AIDS, concludes Mok. ================================================================== ""Absence of HIV Transmission From an Infected Dentist to His Patients"" Journal of the American Medical Association (04/14/93) Vol. 269, No. 14, P. 1802 (Dickinson, Gordon M. et al.) If universal precautions are practiced, the risk of HIV transmission from dentist to patient appears to be infinitesimal, write Gordon M. Dickinson HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 43 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 et al. of the University of Miami School of Medicine in Miami, Fla. The researchers contacted all patients treated by a dentist with AIDS and attempts were made to contact all patients for HIV testing. Living patients with newly detected HIV infection were interviewed, and DNA sequence analysis was performed to compare genetic relatedness of their HIV to that of the dentist. Death certificates were obtained for deceased patients, and the medical records of those with diagnoses suggestive of HIV disease or drug abuse and those dying under the age of 50 years were examined in detail. There were 1,192 patients who had undergone 9,267 procedures, of whom 124 were deceased. An examination of the death certificates of patients identified five who had died with HIV infection, all of whom were either homosexuals or IV-drug users. The researchers were able to detect 962 of the remaining 1,048 patients, and 900 agreed to be tested. HIV infection was reported in five of the 900 patients, including four who had clear evidence of risk factors for the disease. One patient who had only a single evaluation by the dentist denied high-risk behavior. Comparative DNA sequence analysis showed that the viruses from the dentists and these five patients were not closely related. The study suggests the potential for HIV transmission from a general dentist to his patients is minimal in a setting in which universal precautions are strictly observed, conclude Dickinson et al. ================================================================ April 22, 1993 ================================================================ ""AIDS Patients are Susceptible to Recurrences of TB, Study Says"" Washington Post (04/22/93), P. A13 Tuberculosis can strike AIDS patients more than once, which makes the resurging health hazard harder to control, according to a study published in today's New England Journal of Medicine. People who contract TB usually develop an immunity that protects them if they are exposed to the bacteria again. But a person whose immune system is depleted may not be able to fight off a new TB infection, doctors found. Peter M. Small of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute at Stanford University, director of the study, said that in order to protect against reinfection, it may be necessary for some people to use TB medicines permanently. The study examined the genetic makeup of TB bacteria and how the germs changed over time in 17 patients at Kings County Hospital in New York. ================================================================ ""HIV-1 Infection: Breast Milk and HIV-1 Transmission"" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 930 (Mok, Jacqueline) There are still more questions than answers regarding HIV-1-positive women breastfeeding their babies, writes Jacqueline Mok of the Lancet. The anti-infective properties of milk are well documented. While the numbers of HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 44 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 leukocytes, concentrations of lactoferrin and IgA, and lymphocyte mitogenic activity decline sharply during the first two to three months of lactation to barely detectable levels, lactoferrin and IgA then increase from three to twelve months, with 90 percent of total IgA in milk being secretory IgA. Breastfeeding protects infants against gastrointestinal and respiratory illnesses, in both normal and uninfected children born to HIV-positive mothers. The Italian National Registry of AIDS discovered that breastfed HIV- 1 infected children had a longer median incubation time (19 months) than bottlefed infants (9.7 months). Breastfed children also had a slower progression to AIDS. There is no agreement on which antibodies offer protection against HIV-1 infection. Studies of the biological properties of milk from 15 HIV-1 infected women showed the presence of IgG and IgA antibodies against envelope glycoproteins, as well as IgA antibodies against core antigens. Binding of HIV-1 to the CD4 receptor can be inhibited by a human milk factor. In the developing world, where infectious disease and malnutrition contribute significantly to infant mortality, breast milk is still the best food for infants, regardless of the mother's HIV status. Transmission might be restricted by breastfeeding after colostrum and early milk have been expressed and discarded. The possibility remains that breast milk could protect the infant who is already infected with HIV at birth and may even delay progression to AIDS, concludes Mok. ================================================================ ""HIV and the Aetiology of AIDS"" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 957 (Duesberg, Peter) Because there is no proof that HIV is the cause of AIDS, the hypothesis that drug use leads to AIDS will hopefully become a hindrance to the physiologically (AZT) and psychologically (positive AIDS test) toxic public health initiatives, writes Peter Duesberg of the University of California-- Berkeley. In the Lancet's March 13 issue, Schechter et al. call Duesberg's hypothesis that injected and orally used recreational drugs and AZT lead to AIDS, ""a hindrance to public health initiatives."" However, their hypothesis that HIV is the cause of AIDS has not attained any public health benefits. The U.S. government spends $4 billion annually, but no vaccine, no therapy, no prevention, and no AIDS control have resulted from work on this hypothesis. Schechter et al. conclude that HIV has a key role in CD4 depletion and AIDS based on epidemiological correlations with antibodies against HIV and with self reported recreational drug use among homosexuals from Vancouver. However, their survey neglects to disprove Duesberg's drug- AIDS hypothesis, because it does not provide controls--i.e., confirmed drug- free AIDS cases--and because it does not quantify drug use and ignores AZT use altogether. To refute Duesberg's hypothesis Schechter would have to produce a controlled study demonstrating that over a period of up to 10 years HIV-positive patients who use recreational drugs or AZT or both have the same AIDS risks as positives who do not do so. The 10 year period is claimed by HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 45 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 proponents of the HIV hypothesis to be the time needed for HIV to cause AIDS. Alternatively, they could show that HIV-free individuals who have used drugs for 10 years never get AIDS-defining illnesses, concludes Duesberg. ================================================================ ""Rapid Decline of CD4+ Cells After IFNa Treatment in HIV-1 Infection"" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 959 (Vento, Sandro et al.) Interferon (IFN), which induces autoantibodies and autoimmune diseases in some settings, may hasten CD4 T-cell loss in some HIV-1 infected individuals through the amplification of harmful ""autoimmune"" reactions, write Sandro Vento et al. of the A. Pugliese Hospital in Catanzaro, Italy. The researchers report three asymptomatic HIV-1 infected individuals with hepatitis C Virus related chronic active hepatitis (CAH) who had a rapid, profound decline of CD4 cells after IFN. All three patients throughout the observation were consistently negative for serum HIV p24 antigen and had circulating antibodies to p24. Sera from all three patients, obtained at the end of IFN treatment and testing in enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay, contained high titres of antibodies reacting to a sequence located in the aminoterminal of the beta chain of all human HLA class II antigens, homologous to a sequence located in the carboxy terminus of HIV-1 gp41. These autoantibodies, which also recognize ""native"" class II molecules and may contribute to the elimination of CD4 T cells ""in vivo"", were at low tires (50-100) in all three patients six months after stopping IFN. Such autoantibodies were not detected in 28 other patients with HIV infection and HCV related CAH treated with IFN and who did not experience CD4 T-cell loss in some HIV-1 infected individuals through the amplification of harmful ""autoimmune"" reactions. The subjects had A1; B8; DR3; and B35, DR1 HLA antigen combinations which are linked with a more rapid fall in CD4 cell counts and clinical progression of HIV-1 disease. IFN can induce a very rapid decline of CD4 cells and should be used cautiously in patients with these HLA haplotypes, the researchers conclude. ================================================================ April 23, 1993 ================================================================ ""TB Makes a Comeback"" State Government News (04/93) Vol. 36, No. 4, P. 6 (Voit, William and Knapp, Elaine S.) Although tuberculosis was once believed to be eliminated in the United States, it is emerging again among the homeless, AIDS patients, immigrants, minorities, and prisoners. Dr. Lee B. Reichman, professor of medicine at the University of New Jersey Medical School and president of the American Lung Association, said, ""Right now, it's a big city problem, but potentially it's everyone's problem."" The ALA predicts that 10 million Americans are infected with TB, and about 10 percent of them will develop the disease because their immune systems are depressed, especially those with AIDS or HIV. Gene HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 46 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 Tammes, a Centers for Disease Control expert, said that is why the CDC has issued guidelines warning hospitals and institutions not to mix AIDS with TB patients. State health officials believe the TB is also spreading because those who are most susceptible are the least likely to follow through with treatment. In addition, the increase is attributed to a shortage of public health services. In New York City, TB is an epidemic ""because the number of cases is increasing faster than we can treat people,"" said Dr. George Diferdinando, director of the New York State TB Control. According to Diferdinando, curbing the spread of TB entails keeping 85 percent or more of diagnosed TB cases in treatment. About 40 percent of infected New York City residents don't complete therapy. When TB patients don't finish taking their medication, multi-drug resistant TB can develop, which requires taking more expensive drugs and can take two years instead of the normal six months to treat. ================================================================ ""Increasing Frequency of Heterosexually Transmitted AIDS in Southern Florida: Artifact or Reality?"" American Journal of Public Health (04/93) Vol. 83, No. 4, P. 571 (Nwanyanwu, Okey C. et al.) The alarmingly high rate of heterosexually acquired AIDS cases in southern Florida was partially related to misclassification of risk, write Okey C. Nwanyanwu et al. of the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, Ga. The researchers investigated 168 such AIDS cases from Broward and coastal Palm Beach counties. All of these cases attributed to heterosexual transmission reported sexual contact with bisexual men, injecting drug users, or persons born in countries where heterosexual contact is the primary route of HIV transmission. Medical records of patients, in addition to records from social services, HIV counseling and testing centers, and sexually transmitted disease (STD) clinics were reviewed. If no other HIV risk factor was found from medical record review, patients were interviewed using a standardized questionnaire. Once STD clinic and other medical records were reviewed, 29 men and 7 women were reclassified into other HIV transmission categories. After adjustments were made for the reclassification, the percentage of AIDS cases reported from Palm Beach and Broward counties between January 1, 1989, and March 31, 1990, that was attributed to heterosexual transmission decreased from 10 percent to 6 percent among men and from 33 percent to 28 percent among women. While the percentage of heterosexually transmitted AIDS cases in southern Florida decreased after adjustment was made for reclassified cases, it still remained above the national average, the researchers conclude. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 47 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: AIDS Statistics :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: World Health Organization, Geneva Organisation mondiale de la Sante, Geneve WEEKLY EPIDEMIOLOGICAL RECORD RELEVE EPIDEMIOLOGIQUE HEBDOMADAIRE 15 January 1993 - 68th Year ACQUIRED IMMUNODEFICIENCY SYNDROME (AIDS) DATA AS AT 31 December 1992 SYNDROME D'IMMUNODEFICIENCE ACQUISE (SIDA) DONNEES AU 31 Decembre 1992 NUMBER DATE OF OF CASES REPORT COUNTRY/AREA - NOMBRE DATE PAYS/TERRITOIRE DE CAS DE NOTIFI- CATION AFRICA - AFRIQUE Algeria - Algerie 92 31.08.91 Angola 514 24.09.92 Benin - Benin 247 31.03.92 Botswana 353 30.06.92 Burkina Faso 1,263 20.03.92 Burundi 6,052 20.03.92 Cameroon - Cameroun 1,407 05.10.92 Cape Verde - Cap-Vert 52 08.02.92 Central African Republic - Republique centrafricaine 1,864 20.03.92 Chad - Tchad 382 17.09.92 Comoros - Comores 3 11.03.92 Congo 3,482 30.01.92 Cote d'Ivoire 10,792 09.03.92 Djibouti 265 17.12.92 Egypt - Egypte 57 17.12.92 Equatorial Guinea - Guinee equatoriale 13 16.05.92 Ethiopia - Ethiopie 3,978 11.11.92 HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 48 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 Gabon 215 31.05.92 Gambia - Gambie 180 25.02.92 Ghana 3,612 01.07.92 Guinea - Guinee 338 20.03.92 Guinea-Bissau - Guinee-Bissau 189 13.07.92 Kenya 31,185 01.10.92 Lesotho 64 31.03.92 Liberia - Liberia 28 31.03.92 Libyan Arab Jamahiriya - Jamahiriya arabe libyenne 7 17.12.92 Madagascar 2 06.11.92 Malawi 22,300 02.12.92 Mali 1,111 17.07.92 Mauritania - Mauritanie 36 19.07.92 Mauritius - Maurice 11 29.02.92 Morocco - Maroc 121 17.12.92 Mozambique 538 10.10.92 Namibia - Namibie 311 20.03.92 Niger 497 07.02.92 Nigeria - Nigeria 184 12.03.92 Reunion - Reunion 65 20.03.92 Rwanda 8,483 12.11.92 Sao Tome and Principe - Sao Tome-et-Principe 11 03.07.92 Senegal - Senegal 648 09.03.92 Seychelles --- 18.02.92 Sierra Leone 40 20.03.92 Somalia - Somalie 13 17.12.92 South Africa - Afrique du Sud 1,316 30.06.92 Sudan - Soudan 650 17.12.92 Swaziland 197 08.07.92 Togo 1,278 03.04.92 Tunisia - Tunisie 114 17.12.92 Uganda - Ouganda 34,611 01.11.92 United Republic of Tanzania - Republique-Unie de Tanzanie 34,605 31.05.92 Zaire - Zaire 18,186 14.05.92 Zambia - Zambie 6,556 15.10.92 Zimbabwe 12,514 31.03.92 TOTAL 211,032 HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 49 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 AMERICAS - AMERIQUES Anguilla 6 10.12.92 Antigua and Barbuda - Antigua-et-Barbuda 6 10.12.92 Argentina - Argentine 1,820 10.12.92 Bahamas 934 10.12.92 Barbados - Barbade 315 10.12.92 Belize 53 10.12.92 Bermuda - Bermudes 199 10.12.92 Bolivia - Bolivie 49 10.12.92 Brazil - Bresil 31,364 10.12.92 British Virgin Islands - Iles Vierges britanniques 4 10.12.92 Canada 6,889 10.12.92 Cayman Islands - Iles Caimanes 13 10.12.92 Chile - Chili 573 10.12.92 Colombia - Colombie 2,957 10.12.92 Costa Rica 419 10.12.92 Cuba 137 10.12.92 Dominica - Dominique 12 10.12.92 Dominican Republic - Republique dominicaine 1,809 10.12.92 Ecuador - Equateur 224 10.12.92 El Salvador 382 10.12.92 French Guiana - Guyane francaise 232 10.12.92 Grenada - Grenade 32 10.12.92 Guadeloupe 182 10.12.92 Guatemala 273 10.12.92 Guyana 333 10.12.92 Haiti - Haiti 3,086 10.12.92 Honduras 1,976 10.12.92 Jamaica - Jamaique 361 10.12.92 Martinique 227 10.12.92 Mexico - Mexique 11,034 10.12.92 Montserrat 1 10.12.92 Netherlands Antilles and Aruba - Antilles neerlandaises et Aruba 110 10.12.92 Nicaragua 31 10.12.92 Panama 388 10.12.92 Paraguay 51 10.12.92 Peru - Perou 614 10.12.92 HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 50 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 Saint Kitts and Nevis - Saint-Kitts-et-Nevis 37 10.12.92 Saint Lucia - Sainte-Lucie 48 10.12.92 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines - Saint- Vincent-et-Grenadines 41 10.12.92 Suriname 122 10.12.92 Trinidad and Tobago - Trinite-et-Tobago 1,085 10.12.92 Turks and Caicos Islands - Iles Turques et Caiques 25 10.12.92 United States of America - Etats-Unis d'Amerique 242,146 10.12.92 Uruguay 310 10.12.92 Venezuela 2,173 10.12.92 TOTAL 313,083 ASIA - ASIE Afghanistan --- 17.12.92 Bahrain - Bahrein 3 31.03.92 Bangladesh 1 30.11.92 Bhutan - Bhoutan --- 30.11.92 Brunei Darussalam - Brunei Darussalam 2 19.12.91 Burma see Myanmar - Birmanie voir Myanmar Cambodia - Cambodge --- 31.10.92 China(a) - Chine(a) 11 28.04.92 Cyprus - Chypre 24 17.12.92 Democratic People's Republic of Korea - Republique populaire democratique de Coree --- 30.11.92 Hong Kong 61 26.09.92 India - Inde 242 30.11.92 Indonesia - Indonesie 24 30.11.92 Iran (Islamic Republic of) - Iran (Republique islamique d') 56 17.12.92 Iraq 7 17.12.92 Israel - Israel 192 17.12.92 HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 51 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 Japan - Japon 508 04.12.92 Jordan - Jordanie 24 17.12.92 Kuwait - Koweit 7 17.12.92 Lao People's Democratic Republic - Republique democratique populaire lao 1 23.04.92 Lebanon - Liban 35 17.12.92 Macao 2 03.11.92 Malaysia - Malaisie 46 25.05.92 Maldives --- 30.11.92 Mongolia - Mongolie 1 30.11.92 Myanmar 16 30.11.92 Nepal - Nepal 12 30.11.92 Oman 27 17.12.92 Pakistan 25 17.12.92 Philippines 80 07.10.92 Qatar 31 17.12.92 Republic of Korea - Republique de Coree 10 19.11.92 Saudi Arabia - Arabie saoudite 46 17.12.92 Singapore - Singapour 43 05.08.92 Sri Lanka 20 30.11.92 Syrian Arab Republic - Republique arabe syrienne 19 17.12.92 Thailand - Thailande 909 30.11.92 Turkey - Turquie 89 17.12.92 United Arab Emirates - Emirats arabes unis 8 17.12.92 Viet Nam --- 28.04.92 Yemen - Yemen --- 17.12.92 TOTAL 2,582 EUROPE Albania - Albanie --- 30.09.92 Austria - Autriche 828 30.09.92 Belarus - Belarus 6 30.09.92 Belgium - Belgique 1,224 17.12.92 Bulgaria - Bulgarie 16 17.12.92 Czechoslovakia - Tchecoslovaquie 32 17.12.92 Denmark - Danemark 1,072 17.12.92 Finland - Finlande 112 17.12.92 HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 52 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 France 21,487 17.12.92 Germany - Allemagne 8,893 17.12.92 Greece - Grece 689 17.12.92 Hungary - Hongrie 105 17.12.92 Iceland - Islande 22 17.12.92 Ireland - Irlande 294 17.12.92 Italy - Italie 14,783 17.12.92 Latvia - Lettonie 2 30.09.92 Lithuania - Lituanie 2 30.09.92 Luxembourg 55 17.12.92 Malta - Malte 25 17.12.92 Monaco 9 17.12.92 Netherlands - Pays-Bas 2,330 17.12.92 Norway - Norvege 283 17.12.92 Poland - Pologne 118 17.12.92 Portugal 1,007 17.12.92 Romania - Roumanie 2,073 17.12.92 Russian Federation - Federation de Russie 94 30.09.92 San Marino - Saint-Marin 1 17.12.92 Spain - Espagne 14,991 17.12.92 Sweden - Suede 743 17.12.92 Switzerland - Suisse 2,691 17.12.92 United Kingdom - Royaume-Uni 6,510 17.12.92 Yugoslavia(b) - Yougoslavie(b) 313 30.09.92 TOTAL 80,810 OCEANIA - OCEANIE American Samoa - Samoa americaines --- 18.11.92 Australia - Australie 3,615 02.12.92 Cook Islands - Iles Cook --- 18.02.92 Federated States of Micronesia - Etats federes de Micronesie 2 01.09.92 Fiji - Fidji 4 28.11.91 French Polynesia - Polynesie francaise 27 28.11.91 Guam 10 13.09.91 Kiribati --- 08.11.91 Mariana Islands - Iles Mariannes 4 14.10.92 Marshall Islands - Iles Marshall 2 18.03.91 Nauru --- 17.12.92 New Caledonia and Dependencies - HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 53 Volume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993 Nouvelle-Caledonie et dependances 22 26.08.92 New Zealand - Nouvelle-Zelande 348 03.11.92 Niue --- 18.02.92 Palau --- 15.10.92 Papua New Guinea - Papouasie- Nouvelle-Guinee 45 10.08.92 Samoa 1 18.02.92 Solomon Islands - Iles Salomon --- 19.12.91 Tokelau --- 18.02.92 Tonga 2 24.07.92 Tuvalu --- 22.11.92 Vanuatu --- 08.06.92 Wallis and Futuna Islands - Iles Wallis et Futuna --- 27.05.91 TOTAL 4,082 WORLD TOTAL - TOTAL MONDIAL 611,589 (a) The above statistics relating to China do not include 48 cases of AIDS in the Province of Taiwan. -- Les statistiques ci-dessus se rapportant a la Chine ne comprennent pas 48 cas de SIDA dans la province de Taiwan. (b) Refers to Republics and areas of the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia: Bosnia and Herzegovina; Croatia; Macedonia; Montenegro; Serbia; Slovenia. -- Se refere aux republiques et territoires de l'ancienne Republique federative socialiste de Yougoslavie: Bosnie-Herzegovine; Croatie; Macedoine; Montenegro; Serbie; Slovenie. HICNet Medical Newsletter Page 54 ------------- cut here ----------------- -- This is the last part --------------- --- Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165 Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15 Amateur Packet ax25: wb7tpy@wb7tpy.az.usa.na ",13 "Confession & communion 04 Apr 93, David Cruz-Uribe writes to All: DC> Also, what is Orthodox practice regarding communion? I read DC> a throw-away remark someplace that the Orthodox receive less DC> frequently than Catholics do, but was is their current practice? DC> Have their been any variations historically? I think Orthodox practice varies from place to place, from parish to parish and from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In some parishes here in South Africa the only ones who receive communion are infants (i.e. children under 7). In our parish it is expected that one will have been to Vespers and confessional prayers the evening before, and that one will have been fasting. As we have to travel 70km to the church, we don' t receive communion every Sunday, but about every third Sunday. Steve --- GoldED 2.40 ",15 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: #Frank, unless you didn't realize it, you are just now involved #in a debate where we have various opinions, and each entity #has its own frame where the opinion is expressed. I think I #don't need to state the dreadful r-word. So, it's _sometimes_ correct to say that morality is objective, or what? After all, I could hardly be wrong, without dragging in the o-word. For your part, when you say that relativism is true, that's just your opinion. Why do folk get so heated then, if a belief in relativism is merely a matter of taste? (to be fair, _you_ have been very calm, I get the impression that's because you don't care about notions of objectivity in any flavour. Right?) -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: Jewish Baseball Players? In article mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes: > > >Polish and Jewish are *not* mutually exclusive. I didn't mean to offend or anything, I'm just quoting Stanky himself on the subject. I remember one time last year he was being interviewed by ESPN, and the interviewer (can't remember who), asked Stanky if he was Jewish because he (the interviewer) was Jewish and wanted to see more Jewish ballplayers. To which Stanky replied, ""I'm Polish, not Jewish."" So maybe that wasn't the most PC thing for Stanky to say, and maybe I was a little naive when I posted it. I think we should just devote this subject to finding actual Jewish ballplayers (I myself am Jewish and the only ones I ever knew until now were Koufax, Greenberg, and Blomberg). -Alan ",9 "Re: Non-lethal alternatives to handguns? In article <1993Apr15.150736.15793@mksol.dseg.ti.com> pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com writes: > >Ask the Brits. Enough people have been killed by rubber bullets that they now >use them under only certain ""controlled"" circumstances. And they are fired >from something that looks like a tear gas launcher. > >There are smaller rubber bullets and pellets (for shotguns). I understand that >they are only intended to be discouragers, ie. for the snapping but not truly >dangerous animal. In general, they do not seem capable of really stopping >someone who wants you or past you. They are fired at very low muzzle velocity >(the .38 ball round is intended for a 400fps load). Finally, as your mother >warned you, you can put an eye out with that thing. :-) >-- Oh, OK. Just wondering. I am not a real expert on weapons, I was just wondering if they would do the job. Doug Holland ",16 "Re: ALL-TIME BEST PLAYERS In article <1993Apr13.115313.17986@bsu-ucs>, 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes : >I've recently been working on project to determine the greatest >players at their respective postions. My sources are Total Baseball, >James' Historical Abstract, The Ballplayers (biography), word of >mouth, and my own (biased) opinions... > >Feel free to comment, suggest, flame (whatever)...but I tried >to be as objective as possible, using statistical data not inlcuded >for time/convience's sake. (I judged on Rel. BA, Adj OPS, Total Average, >fielding range/runs, total player rating (Total Baseball), stolen bases >(for curiosity's sake), TPR/150 g, and years played/MVP. > >1B Career > 1) Lou Gehrig > 2) Jimmie Foxx > 3) Eddie Murray > 4) Hank Greenberg > 5) Johnny Mize > 6) Willie McCovey > 7) Dick Allen > 8) Harmon Killebrew > 9) Kieth Hernandez It's i before e except after c, and in people named kEIth. >10) Bill Terry >11) George Sisler > >2B > 1) Eddie Collins > 2) Joe Morgan > 3) Jackie Robinson > 4) Rogers Hornsby > 5) Nap Lajoie > 6) Rhyne Sandberg Learn to spell. It's Ryne. > 7) Charlie Gehringer > 8) Rod Carew > 9) Bobby Grich >10) Bobby Doerr > >SS > 1) Honus Wagner > 2) Cal Ripken Jr > 3) John Lloyd > 4) Ozzie Smith > 5) Robin Yount > 6) Joe Cronin > 7) Arky Vaughan > 8) Luke Appling > 9) Ernie Banks >10) Lou Boudreau > >3B > 1) Mike Schmidt > 2) Ed Matthews > 3) George Brett > 4) Wade Boggs > 5) Ron Santo > 6) Brooks Robinson > 7) Frank Baker > 8) Darrell Evans > 9) Pie Traynor >10) Ray Dandridge > How can Brooks be # 6? I think he would at least be ahead of Ron Santo. >C > 1) Josh Gibson *********************** 1a) Darren Daulton * MVP 1993 *********************** > 2) Yogi Berra > 3) Johnny Bench > 4) Mickey Cochrane > 5) Bill Dickey > 6) Gabby Hartnett > 7) Roy Campanella > 8) Gary Carter > 9) Carlton Fisk >10) Thurman Munson > >LF > 1) Ted Williams > 2) Stan Musial > 3) Rickey Henderson > 4) Carl Yastrzemski > 5) Barry Bonds > 6) Tim Raines > 7) Joe Jackson > 8) Ralph Kiner > 9) Willie Stargell >10) Al Simmons > >CF > 1) Willie Mays > 2) Ty Cobb > 3) Tris Speaker > 4) Mickey Mantle > 5) Joe DiMaggio > 6) Oscar Charleston > 7) Andre Dawson > 8) Duke Snider > 9) Kirby Puckett >10) Dale Murphy > >RF > 1) Babe Ruth > 2) Hank Aaron > 3) Frank Robinson > 4) Mel Ott > 5) Al Kaline > 6) Reggie Jackson > 7) Dave Winfield > 8) Roberto Clemente > 9) Tony Gwynn >10) Pete Rose > >P > 1) Walter Johnson > 2) Lefty Grove > 3) Cy Young > 4) Christy Mathewson > 5) Pete Alexander > 6) Tom Seaver > 7) Roger Clemens > 8) Bob Gibson > 9) Warren Spahn >10) Satchel Paige >11) Juan Marichal >12) Whitey Ford >13) Bob Feller >14) Jim Palmer >15) Steve Carlton > >Overall (estimated): > 1) Ruth > 2) Williams > 3) Mays > 4) Cobb > 5) Aaron > 6) Wagner > 7) Speaker > 8) Schmidt > 9) W.Johnson >10) Mantle >11) Musial >12) DiMaggio >13) F.Robinson >14) Grove >15) Henderson >16) J.Gibson >17) C.Young >18) Collins >19) Foxx >20) Mathewson >21) Alexander >22) Morgan >23) J.Robinson >24) Hornsby >25) Ott >26) Seaver >27) Clemens >28) Matthews >29) Lajoie >30) Yastrzemski >31) Kaline >32) Brett >33) Gibson >34) Spahn >35) Charleston >36) Berra >37) Ripken Jr. >38) Lloyd >39) Raines >40) Sandberg >41) Gehringer >42) O.Smith >43) Yount >44) Ba.Bonds >45) Paige >46) R.Jackson >47) Marichal >48) Ford >49) Feller >50) Boggs > > >Again, feel free to comment... > >Mike, BSU > -- ",9 "Re: *** TurboGrafx System For SALE *** >TurboGrafx-16 Base Unit (works like new) with: > 1 Controller > AC Adapter > Antenna hookup > * Games: > Kieth Courage > Victory Run > Fantasy Zone > Military Madness > Battle Royal > Legendary Axe > Blazing Lasers > Bloody Wolf > > -------------------------------------- >* Will sell games separatley at $25 each > -------------------------------------- Your kidding, $210.00, man o man, you can buy the system new for $49.00 at Electronic Boutique and those games are only about $15 - $20.00 brand new. Maybe you should think about that price again if you REALLY need the money. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Wayne State University Steve Teolis 6050 Cass Ave. # 238 Detroit, MI 48202 Steve@Busop.cit.wayne.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ",6 "Re: BALTIC states and ""realism"" and 'virvir' drivel In article <1t3e0r$i8m@zip.eecs.umich.edu> sechrest@cairo.eecs.umich.edu (Stuart Sechrest) writes: >>By the way, here is the entire paragraph. >> >>""We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as >> ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work >> of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. >> Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts >> into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable >> and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets >> completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They >> found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border >> into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole >> length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to >> Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain >> plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of >> Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for >> howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the >> scattered bones of the dead."" >> >> Ohanus Appressian >> ""Men Are Like That"" >> p. 202. >No, this is the point you invariably miss. Don't be so vague. Let us reexamine it - shall we? >THIS is the entire paragraph: >``As the Turks had solved the Armenian problem in Turkey by > slaying or driving the Armenians out of the country, so > we now proceeded to solve the Tartar problem in Armenia. > We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as > ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work > of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village. > Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts > into heaps of stone and dust, and when the villages became untenable > and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets > completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They > found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border > into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole > length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to > Akhalkalaki, from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain > plateau of the north, were dotted with mute mournful ruins of > Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for > howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the > scattered bones of the dead."" > Ohanus Appressian, from L. R. Hartill, ``Men Are Like That,'' > The Bobbs-Merrill Company, London, 1928. P. 202. Here you descend into total inanity. Your inability to distinguish between 'the cold-blooded genocide of Muslim people by the Armenians' and 'the Armenian war' is incredible. Now, please provide us with your corrections. Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian armies in 1914, ""History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."" (London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316. ""In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population, closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during the next two days."" ""Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions, Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims. Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common soldiers began deserting in droves."" ""With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks, Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of expected arrival of the invading Russian armies."" ""...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response: 'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new free life under the protection of Russia.'[155] Armenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made to strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg confident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul."" [155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, ""Road to Independence,"" p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083. ""Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]"" [156] Hovannisian, ""Road to Independence,"" pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1, pp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, ""Caucasian Battlefields,"" Cambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, ""Harb Hahralaram,"" 2 vols., Ankara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos. 46942 and 22083. ""An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"" [162] Hovannisian, ""Road to Independence,"" p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and 58350. [163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915; Babi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, ""Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,"" Zilkade 1333/10 September 1915. >As you point out above, the original quote used the term ``Tartars,'' >as distinct from ``Turks,'' but you perhaps feel free to make these >minor adjustments in the name of truth. I went through this just a few weeks ago; here it comes again. The entire Turkish population of Armenia (which Armenians called Tartars) constituted at least about 40% of the total population of Armenia was deliberately exterminated. (For the population statistics, please look to the book of Richard Hovannessian, ""Armenia on the Road to Independence."") I listed three books earlier of such a monstrous crime by the writings of one Armenian, one American, and one British. They are: ""Men Are Like That"" by Leonard R. Hartill; ""Adventures in the Near East"" by A. Rawlinson; ""World Alive, A Personal Story"" by Robert Dunn. Also, I personally have copies of documents of this crime by the writings of two Armenians and also one American. The official British report about this massacre mentioned in one of these documents (Lord Curzon-Aharonin interview) is the report of the British High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop. ""An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in 1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."" (Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990) Need I go on? Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: SSPX schism ? Here is some material by Michael Davies on the subject of schism in general and Archishop Lefebvre in particular. He wrote it around 1990. The first part of the two-part article was on the scandalous activities of Archbishop Weakland (in this country), but I cut all that. And I pared down the rest to what was relevant. Joe Buehler ... Schism and Disobedience According to St. Thomas Aquinas, schism consists primarily in a refusal of submission to the Pope or communion with the members of the Church united to him. On first sight it would appear that, whatever the subjective motivation of the Archbishop, as discussed above, he must be in a state of objective schism as he has refused to submit to the Pope on a very grave matter involving his supreme power of jurisdiction. However, standard Catholic textbooks of theology make it clear that while all schisms involve disobedience not all acts of disobedience are schismatic. If this were so, as was noted at the beginning of this article, it would mean that the number of American bishops who are not schismatic would not reach double figures. The distinction between disobedience and schism is made very clear in the article on schism in the very authoritative Dictionnaire de Theologie Catholique. The article is by Father Yves Congar who is certainly no friend of Archbishop Lefebvre. He explains that schism and disobedience are so similar that they are often confused. Father Congar writes that schism involves a refusal to accept the existence of legitimate authority in the Church, for example, Luther's rejection of the papacy. Father Congar explains that the refusal to accept a decision of legitimate authority in a particular instance does not constitute schism but disobedience. The Catholic Encyclopedia explains that for a Catholic to be truly schismatic he would have to intend ""to sever himself from the Church as far as in him lies."" It adds that ""not every disobedience is schism; in order to possess this character it must include besides the transgression of the command of the superiors, a denial of their divine right to command.""Not only does Mgr. Lefebvre not deny the divine right of the Pope to command, but he affirms repeatedly his recognition of the Pope's authority and his intention of never breaking away from Rome. The Archbishop made his attitude clear in the July/August 1989 issue of 30 Days: ""We pray for the Pope every day. Nothing has changed with the consecrations last June 30. We are not sedevacantists. We recognize in John Paul II the legitimate Pope of the Catholic Church. We don't even say that he is a heretical Pope. We only say that his Modernist actions favor heresy."" ... Intrinsically Schismatic? The principal argument used by those claiming that Mgr. Lefebvre is in schism is that the consecration of a bishop without a papal mandate is an intrinsically schismatic act. A bishop who carries out such a consecration, it is claimed, becomes ipso facto a schismatic. This is not true. If such a consecration is an intrinsically schismatic act it would always have involved the penalty of excommunication. In the 1917 Code of Canon Law the offence was punished only by suspension (see Canon 2370 of the 1917 Code). Pope Pius XII had raised the penalty to excommunication as a response to the establishment of a schismatic church in China. The consecration of these illicit Chinese bishops differed radically from the consecrations carried out by Mgr. Lefebvre as the professed intention was to repudiate the authority of the Pope, that is, to deny that he has the right to govern the Church, and the illicitly consecrated Chinese bishops were given a mandate to exercise an apostolic mission. Neither Archbishop Lefebvre nor any of the bishops he has consecrated claim that they have powers of jurisdiction. They have been consecrated solely for the purpose of ensuring the survival of the Society by carrying out ordinations and also to perform confirmations. I do not wish to minimize in any way the gravity of the step take by Mgr. Lefebvre. The consecration of bishops without a papal mandate is far more serious matter than the ordination of priests as it involves a refusal in practice of the primacy or jurisdiction belonging by divine right to the Roman Pontiff. But the Archbishop could argue that the crisis afflicting the Church could not be more grave, and that grave measures were needed in response. It appears to be taken for granted by most of the Archbishop's critics that he was excommunicated for the offense of schism, and the Vatican has certainly been guilty of fostering this impression. There is not so much as a modicum of truth in this allegation. The New Code of Canon Law includes a section beginning with Canon 1364 entitled ""Penalties for Specific Offenses"" (De Poenis in Singula Dicta). The first part deals with ""Offenses against Religion and the Unity of the Church"" (De Delictis contra Religionem et Ecclesiae Unitatem). Canon 1364 deals with the offense of schism which is, evidently, together with apostasy and heresy, one of the three fundamental offenses against the unity of the Church. But the Archbishop was not excommunicated under the terms of this canon or, indeed, under any canon involving an offense against religion or the unity of the church. The canon cited in his excommunication comes from the third section of ""Penalties for Specific Offenses"" which is entitled ""Usurpation of Ecclesial Functions and Offenses in their Exercise"" (De Munerum Ecclesiasticorum Usurpatione Degue Delictis iniis Exercendis). The canon in question is Canon 1382, which reads: ""A bishop who consecrates someone bishop and the person who receives such a consecration from a bishop without a pontifical mandate incur an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication reserved to the Holy See."" The scandalous attempts to smear Archbishop Lefebvre with the offense of schism are, then, contrary to both truth and charity. A comparable smear under civil as opposed to ecclesiastical law would certainly justify legal action for libel involving massive damages. An accurate parallel would be to state that a man convicted of manslaughter had been convicted of first degree murder. I must stress that what I have written here is not the dubious opinion of laymen unversed in the intricacies of Canon Law. Canon lawyers without the least shred of sympathy for Mgr. Lefebvre have repudiated the charge of schism made against him as totally untenable. Father Patrick Yaldrini, Dean of the Faculty of Canon Law of the Institut Catholique in Paris noted in the 4 July 1988 issue of Valeurs actuelles that, as I have just explained, Mgr. Lefebvre was not excommunicated for schism but for the usurpation of an ecclesiastical function. He added that it is not the consecration of a bishop which constitutes schism but the conferral of an apostolic mission upon the illicitly consecrated bishop. It is this usurpation of the powers of the sovereign pontiff which proves the intention of establishing a parallel Church. Cardinal Rosalio Lara, President of the Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of Canon Law, commented on the consecrations in the 10 July 1988 issue of la Repubblica. It would be hard to imagine a more authoritative opinion. The Cardinal wrote: The act of consecrating a bishop (without a papal mandate) is not in itself a schismatic act. In fact, the Code that deals with offenses is divided into two sections. One deals with offenses against religion and the unity of the Church, and these are apostasy, schism, and heresy. Consecrating a bishop with a pontifical mandate is, on the contrary, an offense against the exercise of a specific ministry. For example, in the case of the consecrations carried out by the Vietnamese Archbishop Ngo Dinh Thuc in 1976 and 1983, although the Archbishop was excommunicated he was not considered to have committed a schismatic act because there was no intention of a breach with the Church. .... It is not simply unjust but ludicrous to suggest that in consecrating bishops without a papal mandate Archbishop Lefebvre had the least intent of establishing a schismatic church. He is not a schismatic and will never be a schismatic. The Archbishop considers correctly that the the Church is undergoing its worst crisis since the Arian heresy, and that for the good of the Church it was necessary for him to consecrate the four bishops to ensure the future of his Society. Canon Law provides for just such a situation, and even if one believes that the future of the Society could have been guaranteed without these consecrations, the fact that the Archbishop believed sincerely that it could not means, as Canon Law states clearly, that he has not incurred excommunication. Furthermore, while the Vatican allows such prelates as Archbishop Weakland to undermine the Faith with impunity it cannot expect Catholics to pay the least attention to its sanctions against a great and orthodox Archbishop whose entire life has been devoted to the service of the Church and the salvation of souls. Dr. Eric M. de Saventhem, President of the International Una Voce Association, is one of the best informed laymen in the Church, and he knows the Archbishop intimately. Dr. de Saventhem, like myself, has no greater desire than to see a reconciliation between Mgr. Lefebvre and the Holy See during the Archbishop's lifetime. A quotation from a statement by Dr. de Saventhem which was published in the 15 February 1989 Remnant merits careful study: In retrospect, the road leading to the consecrations of 30 June appears more paved with grave Roman (and, unfortunately, also papal) omissions than with Lefebvrist ""obstinancies."" And from the eyes of an informed public this cannot be hidden by attempting to present the Archbishop's act of grave disobedience as an offense against the Faith! It is said--today--that Mgr. Lefebvre has ""an erroneous concept of Tradition."" If this were so, Cardinal Ratzinger could not, on behalf of the Pope, have addressed to the Archbishop the following words in his letter of 28 July 1987: ""Your ardent desire to safeguard Tradition by procuring for it 'the means to live and prosper' testifies to your attachment to the Faith of all time... the Holy Father understands your concern and shares it."" ",15 "Thanks! (Backing Up Masters) Just a quick THANKS to the many who explained the backing up of my masters. Apparently they are NOT copy-protected; I just used a program that is unable to handle high-density (old shit). I was surprised to hear that ""NO programs on high-density disks have copy protection,"" which someone back there said. Huh! Learn something new every day! - Mitch ",3 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article Graham Toal writes: >I am *completely* baffled by why Dorothy Denning has chosen >to throw away her academic respectability like this. She hasn't. Dorothy Denning has spent many years earning the professional respect of her colleagues, and something won in this manner is not easily lost. Her support of the clipper -- no matter how unpopular that position may be -- serves far more to enhance the clipper's respectability than to diminish her own. :: Jeff Makey Department of Tautological Pleonasms and Superfluous Redundancies Department Disclaimer: All opinions are strictly those of the author. Domain: makey@VisiCom.COM UUCP: nosc!visicom!makey ",11 "Re: Winfield's spot on THE ALL TIME GREATS TEAM In article <1993Apr23.212201.18900@alleg.edu> luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer writes: >In article <9834@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) >writes: >> In article >drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes: >> >In article <9729@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) >writes: >ielding RF of all time, as far >> as anyone can tell >> I did a quick scan last night, looking for players with a peak >comparable >> to or better than Winfield. In my quick-n-dirty subjective judgement, >you >> could make good cases for Ruth, Aaron, Ott, Robinson, Clemente, Kaline, >> Maris, Klein, Jackson, Waner, and probably a few others. This is not a >> knock on Winfield, but a comment on his consistency: all of those other >> players had awesome stretches and very good stretches, while Winfield >has >> been more uniformly excellent. Hall of Fame? Absolutely. Top-10 peak? >> I'm not so sure. Top 10 total career value? Yes, almost certainly. >Point taken. When was winfield's peak years anyway? probably around 85. That's the trouble: *what* peak years? He wavers between excellent and very good, with no real bell-shaped pattern in there. 1979 was a fine year; 78 and 80 were merely really good. With the Yankees, 84 (I think) was the best; that was the one with the .340 BA. Of course, 1992 wasn't bad, either. He's been in the bigs since 1973, with a one-year intermission for surgery. Though he doesn't have the mix of skills that Pete Rose did, he's like Pete Rose in one way: he's not a natural hitter. Winfield's swing used to be the ugliest thing in New York, and that includes the Gulf+Western Building. But his sheer athletic prowess and physical size made up for a lot. Fascinating player to watch, even now. Not obviously great in any one way; but able to do quite a few things in surprising ways and at surprising levels. Roger ",9 "Re: re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. /Yes, a lot of what OS/2 2.0 has in common with OS/2 1.x was written by you /guys. However, many of the things that made OS/2 2.0 so much more successful /(Win-OS/2, Workplace Shell) than previous versions were IBM work. Yes, certainly. It was IBM that wrote the Windows code!!! c ",2 "Foreskin Troubles What can be done, short of circumcision, for an adult male whose foreskin will not retract? ",13 "Re: Braves Update!! And then cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper) quoth: =>A comment made by one of the Braves announcers, attributed to =>an anonymous player after Friday night's game, => => ""I'm sorry we didn't tie it up, I wanted to see some more => umpiring."" => =>Just about sums it up............. Sure, like Ron Gant wasn't completely out of line. If I were Hirschbeck, I would have ejected, in order, Ron Gant, every single last Brave who came onto the field, and possibly Bobby Cox, depending on the language he used. Since Cox was the only Brave rung up, I suspect I would have thrown him out too. You simply cannot show up an umpire like Ron Gant did. It is disrespectful of not only the home plate umpire, but of the dignity of the game. -- Jason Lee jplee@oboe.calpoly.edu jlee@cash.busfac.calpoly.edu Giants e ^ i*pi + 1 = 0 The most beautiful equation in mathematics. Magic For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these: Number: ""It might have been."" John Greenleaf Whittier 150 ",9 "Re: Mac oriented BBSs in Chicago > A member of the local BBS I frequent is looking for Mac oriented > BBSs based in Chicago. > > Any leads would be most appreciated. Here is a list of the FirstClass systems in Illinois: Chicago Machine Chicago, IL (312) 233-9607 Insane Domain Chicago, IL (312) 274-9515 MAC Universe BBS Chicago, IL (312) 235-6794 The NET Rockford, IL (815) 968-4729 MacTRIPP Wilmette, IL (708) 251-4158 Innovators Vernon Hills, IL (708) 918-1231 If anyone wants the numbers to more FirstClass systems, I would be glad to post the complete list. - Jason Hyerstay - Adrenaline Admin =========================================================================== = /| |\ |-\ /-- \ | /\ | | \ | /-- Adrenaline Online (FirstClass) = = /-| | \ |_/ |- |\| /--| | | |\| |- (802) 425-2332 * Charlotte, VT = = / | |_/ | \ \-- | \ | | |-- | | \ \-- Free Access!! * 16.8K HST Dual = =========================================================================== = OneNet * MacUnion * FidoNet * UseNet * 120+ Conferences * Megs of Files = = Dedicated to Mac users, cyberpunks, civil libertarians and mecha gamers = =========================================================================== ",4 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage Clayton Cramer wrote: : Lawrence C. Foard writes: : # #The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3. : # Don't forget that 25% had 20 or more partners.... : Not surprising. Remember, that study includes homosexuals as well. Implying, no so tacitly, that homosexual men are more promiscuous than heterosexual men. Interesting, especially in the wake of a news report last week about a group of high school seniors (heterosexual, I might add) who boasted monthly conquests of up to *67* girls *each*. It seems that promiscuity is not limited to homosexuals. This is a sad fact of life: no matter what you look for -- whether it be homosexual promiscuity, racial discrimination, or sexual harassment -- you *will* find it. Whether or not it actually exists where you're looking. -garison ",18 "Re: Key definitions in Emacs + X In article <1993Apr16.183525.25197@midway.uchicago.edu> ajaffe@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Andrew Jaffe) writes: >I use Emacs and I want to customize my keyboard better. >When I set up stuff in my .emacs with a keymap and define-keys, >I can only access certain of the keys on my X-Terminal's >keyboard. I can't get e.g. F10, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn; they all >seem to have either the same or no keycode. I have a feeling >this can't be fixed in emacs itself, but that I need to do some >xmodmap stuff. Can someone help me? It is actually worse than you think. I have the same problem, and have given up. Emacs has an internal table (somewhere!) which defines what keys it will accept, and this table is system-dependent. I use a Sun from my HP, and cannot get 'shift PageUp' to work - xmodmap is not sufficient, or at least I haven't worked out how to make it work. However, I CAN get ordinary 'PageUp' and 'shift CursorRight' to work, and I do some customised things with them. Note that the Emacs on my HP has no problem, and I am using exactly the same xmodmap and Emacs configuration. Nick Maclaren University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory, New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England. Email: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk Tel.: +44 223 334761 Fax: +44 223 334679 ",5 "Word Printing to IIg We have a user that has Word 5.0 and is using symbols such as pi and other mathematic sysmbols, plus doing fractions, etc. The document shows up on the screen with no problems, looks fine. When she tries to print it on a IIg the pi changes to an upside down caret, and several other symbols change to double quotes at bottom of character, plus some little circles appear between words of the fractions instead of spaces. This happens on a IIg laser printer. Tried it on serveral macs and two different IIg's. Prints fine on an NT and NTX laser printers. What's wrong??? Thanks for any help in advance, Gary -- *************************************************************************** Gary Weis University Computer Center 400 Hal Greer Boulevard Huntington, West Virginia 25755-5320 Phone: (304) 696-3205 Fax : (304) 696-3601 Internet: Gary@marshall.wvnet.edu Bitnet : Gary@marshall UCC Net : Gary *************************************************************************** ",4 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. In article <1993Apr21.085848.12704W@lumina.edb.tih.no>, ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen,TIH) writes: |> In article <1993Apr20.230749.12821@reed.edu>, mblock@reed.edu (Matt Block) writes: |> |> > I guess what I am saying is that your question is difficult, if not |> >impossible, to answer. What exactly do you want to know? Do you need a good |> >one for a project you are working on? How secure must it be? Are you trying |> >to crack one that someone else has used? I can probably make suggestions, |> >assuming the activity is strictly legal. (In general, it is a BAD idea, |> >legally, to tamper with copy protection. It can also lead to corruption of |> >files which you necessarily do not have back ups of (being as they are copy |> >protected,) which can be devestating.) Do you have absolutely no ideas for |> >practical applications, and are merely curious? |> > Please clear up those questions, and I'll try to help as much as I |> >can. |> |> May we interpret this as an offer to volunteer as editor for a |> ""Copy protection FAQ"" ? I am quite sure that I am not alone welcoming such |> an initiative! *I* will volunteer to ask some of the questions, if you will |> provide the answers :-) |> |> Ketil Albertsen Hey, now will you stop encouraging him? Copy protection only serves one pur- pose: to keep the honest buyer from making (legal) backup copies. It will definitely not stop any pirates. If you want to protect you soft, supply a good documentation and support. This is IMHO the *only* way of effectively pro- tecting software. Best Regards, Arno -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arno Schaefer ENSIMAG, 2e Annee Email: schaefer@silene.imag.fr Tel.: (33) 76 51 79 95 :-) ------- No, you're not paranoid - the world is really out to get you ----------- ",12 "Re: Davidians and compassion In article <1993Apr20.143400.569@ra.royalroads.ca>, mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) wrote: > Do you judge all Christians by the acts of those who would call > themselves Christian and yet are not? The BD's contradicted scripture > in their actions. They were NOT Christian. Simple as that. Perhaps > you have read too much into what the media has portrayed. Ask any > true-believing Christian and you will find that they will deny any > association with the BD's. Even the 7th Day Adventists have denied any > further ties with this cult, which was what they were. Well, if they were Satanists, or followers of an obscure religion, then I would be sure that Christians would in unison condemn and make this to a show case. But when we are dealing with a fanatical Revelation preacher that kills ultimately everyone, including the innocent children, then it seems that we are dealing with Christians and christians (note the spelling). > Do you judge all Muslims by the acts committed by Saddam Hussein, a > supposedly devout Muslim? I don't. Saddam is just a dictator using > the religious beliefs of his people to further his own ends. And does not this show the dangers with religion -- in order word a mind virus that will make mothers capable of letting their small children burn to ashes while they scream? Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",19 "Daily Verse For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."" Matthew 12:50 ",15 "Re: Change of name ?? In article , Thomas Parsli writes: > I'm NOT trying to censor this or any newsgroup, I'm just trying to > give some hints about OTHER newsgroups. > Doesn't this belong to alt.conspiracy ?? Drop three billiard balls on a ramp, and they all roll in the same direction. Pour some blood into the sea, and sharks will converge from miles around. Throw a pebble at one starling, and all 200 will depart. Natural processes can mimic the outward results of conspiracy when no actual conspiracy is required. Put a government functionary in an embarrassing situation, and he quickly covers his ass. This, too, is completely natural. > About Waco > It looks to me as the BATF and FBI can't handle situations like this. It looks that way to me, too. But you have to understand that it's NOT the first time they have instigated raids like these. The most recent one ALSO ended up in a long standoff, but it wasn't quite as public as this one, and they didn't kill quite as many people. Maybe this screwup will make them think long and hard about raiding any more residences in this manner. But probably not. > The way it went reminds me of 'stun' bomb beeing dropped on a house > in LA from a helicopter. (Whole block went up in flames, 5 died...) I assume you're talking about Philadelphia. > It doesn't HAVE to be a conspiracy, MAYBE they just screwed up ??? If you're a fan of conspiracies, the time to make that batch of popcorn is AFTER the screwup, when it's time for the coverup. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH - UPDATE In article irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: >For me, though, the black soot billowing outside the compound added with >how fast the fire spread ponted to *someone* dousing large parts of the >compound with some sort of gasoline or fire-starter. Lots of house fires give off black sooty smoke. And as far as the speed of the fire the winds were gusting to 30mph at least that day. I guess you're forgetting the way Oakland and Berkeley looked back in 91. Did those folks use accelerants? smg I doubt the Feds >did that as they were more interested in arresting Vernon. The real >unbalanced one (at least the one that lost his cool) was Vernon, so >I figured that he was more likely to do it (after all he was Jesus >being persecuted by the authorities, and had followers to hold onto, >so made the decision. He and his followers also probably felt that they >were rocketing to heaven by doing this stuff). Thsi conclusion, I came >to after umpteen million hours of listening to NPR and other radio >shows (I always have the radio going when I am in my office on some >innocuous talk-show or news program as background noise). > > >-- ><><><><><><><><><><> Personal opinions? Why, <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ><> BRENT IRVINE <> yes. What did you think <> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu <> ><><><><><><><><><><> they were?....... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ",16 "Re: Centris 610 flaky? In article scott@cs.uiuc.edu (Jay Scott) writes: > A rep at the dealer (actually it's a university order center, so > they don't have any immediate financial interest), told me that > they have been having lots of problems with their Centris 610. > He didn't go into details, but mentioned problems with the > floppy drive and intermittent problems with printing files. > It sounded to me like they were having both hardware problems > and software compatibility problems with the machine. > [deleted] > So, what does the net think? Did the dealer just get one flaky > machine, or did Apple send the C610 out the door too early? > Is your C610 working just great, or is it buggy too? A lot of the time, when you're dealing with someone who has no financial interest in selling you the machine, you get a lot of opinion (as opposed to factual information, etc.). What it sounds like to me is that this guy has had an experience with one flaky Centris 610 and formed an all-encompassing opinion on the rest of the 610's. I've seen lots of people who frustrated me to no end because they refused to believe any other Mac Xyz would be any good, since their experience (with >one< machine) with a Mac Xyz had been bad. Their loss, eh? Andrew W. Duthie aduthie@css.itd.umich.edu ",4 "Re: R5 table widget causing trouble with XtQueryGeometry I just got a bug report and a fix for this exact problem from fisher@iscp.bellcore.com (Greg Fisher): > ... the most serious problem I have identified has not > been incorporated. This problem occurs when the Table widget's > GeometryManager is invoked by a child. This will work correctly if > the table widgets parent complies with the Xt protocols. However, if > they do not, as is the case for some Motif widgets, and they ignore > XtCWQueryOnly, then the sizing will be incorrect. > In order to see this problem, the following events must > happen: > 1. A child of the table widget must request a new size. > 2. The table widget must query its parent for a new size having set > XtCWQueryOnly. > 3. The parent must ignore the XtCWQueryOnly bit and resize the table > widget. As part of the resize, XmpTableForgetProposedLayout is > called. This will set tw->table.current_cols and > tw->table.current_rows to zero. > 4. The table will continue setting up the new size, working under the > assumption that it is working with a proposed and not actual > layout. At the end, it will call XmpTableSaveProposedLayout. This > will save tw->table.cols and tw->table.rows and restore their > values from tw->table.current_cols and tw->table.current_rows. > However, these have already been set to zero. > 5. Since the table widget has already been resized, it will not need a > second resize. > 6. Next, another widget managed by some ancestor of the table is > resized. This results in the parent of the table requesting the > tables preferred size. Since tw->table.cols and tw->table.rows are > zero, this will return 0x0 as the preferred size. > 7. The parent is very likely to grant this request, resulting in a > loss of the whole table from the display. > He isolated the problem a proposed a workaround which seems precisely correct. Here is the new implementation of XmpTableNewProposedLayout which will be released with the next update in 5 weeks: Xmp/Table.c: void XmpTableNewProposedLayout( tw ) XmpTableWidget tw; { XmpTableConsiderSameSize( tw ); XmpTableProposedColsAndRows( tw ); XmpTableQueryParentForResize( tw ); /* query only, no resize */ /* * Since we only made a query, we *should* still need to continue. * However, Motif is broken so that we actually may already have * been resized. In that case, the proposed layout is already * forgotten, so we should just quietly exit. */ if ( tw->table.resize_status == RSdueToRequest ) { XmpTableMakeColsFitQueryWidth( tw ); XmpTableMakeRowsFitQueryHeight( tw ); XmpTableGetProposedChildSize( tw ); XmpTableSaveProposedLayout( tw ); } /* else the resize has already been done. Our proposed layout would * have been forgotten in the process. */ } The XpTable the fix is identical, except of course for the names: Xp/Table.c: void XpTableNewProposedLayout( tw ) XpTableWidget tw; { XpTableConsiderSameSize( tw ); XpTableProposedColsAndRows( tw ); XpTableQueryParentForResize( tw ); /* query only, no resize */ /* * Since we only made a query, we *should* still need to continue. * However, some manager widgets are broken so that we actually may * already have * been resized. In that case, the proposed layout * is already forgotten, so we should just quietly exit. */ if ( tw->table.resize_status == RSdueToRequest ) { XpTableMakeColsFitQueryWidth( tw ); XpTableMakeRowsFitQueryHeight( tw ); XpTableGetProposedChildSize( tw ); XpTableSaveProposedLayout( tw ); } /* else the resize has already been done. Our proposed layout would * have been forgotten in the process. */ } ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Smyth david@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov Senior Software Engineer, (818)306-6193 (do NOT use v-mail yet!) CCCP, X and Object Guru. office: 525/C165 Jet Propulsion Lab, M/S 525-3660 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""That Sun Windows thingy, what's it called? You know, its really awful. X? Motif? That's it - Motif! Yuck!"" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",5 "NHL Summary parse results for games played Mon, April 19, 1993 Toronto 1 1 1--3 Detroit 1 4 1--6 First period 1, Detroit, Yzerman 1 (Gallant, Ciccarelli) 4:48. 2, Toronto, Cullen 1 (Clark, Gill) 10:44. Second period 3, Detroit, Sheppard 1 (Probert, Coffey) pp, 5:04. 4, Detroit, Burr 1 (Racine) sh, 6:42. 5, Detroit, Chiasson 1 (Coffey) pp,11:00. 6, Detroit, Howe 1 (Yzerman, Drake) 14:46. 7, Toronto, Gilmour 1 (Borschevsky, Ellett) pp, 19:59. Third period 8, Detroit, Racine 1 (Primeau, Drake) 5:10. 9, Toronto, Lefebvre 1 (Cullen, Pearson) 7:45. Detroit: 6 Power play: 6-2 Special goals: pp: 2 sh: 1 Total: 3 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Burr 1 0 1 Chiasson 1 0 1 Ciccarelli 0 1 1 Coffey 0 2 2 Drake 0 2 2 Gallant 0 1 1 Howe 1 0 1 Primeau 0 1 1 Probert 0 1 1 Racine 1 1 2 Sheppard 1 0 1 Yzerman 1 1 2 Toronto: 3 Power play: 5-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Borschevsky 0 1 1 Clark 0 1 1 Cullen 1 1 2 Ellett 0 1 1 Gill 0 1 1 Gilmour 1 0 1 Lefebvre 1 0 1 Pearson 0 1 1 ----------------------------------------- Winnipeg 1 0 1--2 Vancouver 2 0 2--4 First period 1, Vancouver, Adams 1 (Linden, Bure) pp, 1:23. 2, Vancouver, Craven 1 (Bure, Murzyn) 9:56. 3, Winnipeg, Steen 1 (Shannon, Housley) pp, 17:53. Second period No scoring. Third period 4, Winnipeg, King 1 (Barnes) 3:43. 5, Vancouver, Linden 1(Courtnall, McLean) 12:16. 6, Vancouver, Ronning 1 (Courtnall) 18:31. Vancouver: 4 Power play: 6-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Adams 1 0 1 Bure 0 2 2 Courtnall 0 2 2 Craven 1 0 1 Linden 1 1 2 McLean 0 1 1 Murzyn 0 1 1 Ronning 1 0 1 Winnipeg: 2 Power play: 3-1 Scorer G A Pts --------------- --- --- --- Barnes 0 1 1 Housley 0 1 1 King 1 0 1 Shannon 0 1 1 Steen 1 0 1 ----------------------------------------- ",10 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH - UPDATE In article <1r6klv$64f@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes: >In article , irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes: >> In article wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes: >> >In article nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes: >> >> Yeah, as information trickles in... funny how that works... >> > >> >Funny, yeah, funny how you didn't wait for the FBI spokesdroid >> >latest reversal of ""facts"" before proclaiming the BD's burned >> >themselves to death. >> >> If you won't believe anything the government says, and the press >> is not reliable according to the same logic, then what do you base >> your statements on? Wild speculation laced with a healthy dose >> of paranoia? > >Funny, Brent, but so far we have heard two versions of the ""facts:"" > >1) What the government says. This includes what the government says that > two survivors have said. > >2) What Koresh's lawyer (who was actually inside the compound) says, > including what he says that most of the survivors have said. > >Strange, but they seem to disagree in most important particulars. > >If anyone has actually seen news reports of any of the survivors >speaking first-hand, feel free ot pitch in. I may have missed it. >But my money is that their story will sound a hell of a lot like >case 2, and not at all like case 1. Since neither side would be particularly interested in telling the truth, you have to weigh the 'facts' given by each yourself, and weigh it with the newsreporting if you care. Many cult members will probably side with the attorney, and if he is lying, change their stories to match his. And if the Feds also lie, the cult members who become disillusioned will change their stories to match the Feds. Neither sides are interested in the truth. The Media is more interested, but usually either don't have the time to get it straight or tie themselves to the ratings and deliberately distort. For me, though, the black soot billowing outside the compound added with how fast the fire spread ponted to *someone* dousing large parts of the compound with some sort of gasoline or fire-starter. I doubt the Feds did that as they were more interested in arresting Vernon. The real unbalanced one (at least the one that lost his cool) was Vernon, so I figured that he was more likely to do it (after all he was Jesus being persecuted by the authorities, and had followers to hold onto, so made the decision. He and his followers also probably felt that they were rocketing to heaven by doing this stuff). Thsi conclusion, I came to after umpteen million hours of listening to NPR and other radio shows (I always have the radio going when I am in my office on some innocuous talk-show or news program as background noise). -- <><><><><><><><><><> Personal opinions? Why, <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <> BRENT IRVINE <> yes. What did you think <> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu <> <><><><><><><><><><> they were?....... <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ",16 "Re: Clayton is an asshole (but we all already know that) : Here's a hypothetical question... If Clayton said something like ""all : those niggers are really stupid."" (Please don't be offended, I'm not racist : but merely using an example of Clayton's malign logic). And then said he : read a report that a lot of blacks in inner cities dropped out of school, I : bet he wouldn't have your support. Yet he can claim that all homosexuals are : dishonest, evil, lying child molesters without *PERSONALLY* having a single : homosexual friend or acquaintance and you'll sit there and support him. : God created a place for bigots. It's called Hell and Clayton is going : to burn there for a long time. I pray for him to find in his heart the : Christian values he espouses so that he can learn to love his gay brothers : and sisters, because anyone with so much hatred in his soul coulld never : be righteous. There is a difference between supporting Claytons opinions and supporting his right to speak. I want you to know that you cannot educate and/or elevate ones understanding by calling him names. Clayton has an opinion which in his mind is as valid as any opinion anyone else on the net has. If you were to walk up to black person to talk about blacks in the inner city and began the conversation with ""Those niggers in th......."". You would lose the attention of that black person by the time you spoke your second word. All name calling and derisive remarks do is turn off the audience you are trying to address. Clayton is guilty of that and as such has distracted attention away from his message to bits and pieces of his conversation. I don't understand why people want to repeat his mistakes! -- ================================================== = rogerd@netcom.com - - rogerd@aqm.com = = = = Hanging by the tips of my finger = = at the edge of the internet = ================================================== ",18 "jays game anyone know the outcome of tonight's jays game? -home runs? -winning pitcher? eco gods at U.W.O ",9 "WordBasic - Visual Basic - Macros/Template ??? I am working with Visual Basic v2.0 for windows. Specifically, I am working on an application that generates formatted reports. Since, some of these reports can be rather large, my first question is: 1. Is there a way to increase the size of a list box or text box in Visual Basic/windows beyond the 64k limit? As I have not (as yet - being optimistic :-) come across a way to get around the above problem, I am working on the following approach: I am trying to create my own defined template in MS-Word, using the WordBasic Macros so that I can open up Word from Visual Basic(VB) and load this template of mine, which will work in the following way: It will first open MyOwn.INI file (created in VB - at the time when the user selected the kind of report he weanted) and read the section from the .INI file and jump to the appropriate code in template - which will then open and read a file pertaining to the section it read from the .INI file. 1. When using the GetProfileString function in WordBasic, is there a way to specify/change the default .INI file (which is win.ini) to MyOwn.INI file? 2. When using the file Input$ function in WordBasic - is there a way to read more than the 32k at one time? --- Any help will be appreciated. pgupta@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ",2 "Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller? boyle@cactus.org writes: > In article <1qv7mn$dql@menudo.uh.edu> thang@harebell.egr.uh.edu (Chin-Heng Thang) writes: > > Recently, I saw an ad for the altima which says that it is the > >best seller for the past 6 months, is that true? > > > > I too was puzzled by this obvious untruth. What I think is going on is that > Nissan claims that the Altima is ""the best selling new car namelplate in > the US"" (I think I have this near verbatim). Lee Iaccoca's statistics > dept. would have been proud of that sentence. What they mean, I think, is > that of all ""totally new models"", i.e. cars never sold before in any > form, the Altima is the best seller, thereby eliminating Accord, Taurus > etc. THis is from the same people who make the claim that our minivan is outsellin theirs.... implying that the Nissan Quest/ Murcury Villager are out-selling the Chrysler mini-vans.... not only is this not true at all, but it was a stupid claim to make... the commercial was part of the introduction campaign for the vans. Kind of a bold statement to make when you haven't even sold one yet, eh? And I thought Buick and Oldsmobile where bad. Shame on you Nissan and Mercury! > > Any other interpretations? > > > Craig > > Does anyone has anyhting regarding the # of cars sold for the > >past 6 months? > > > > > > > >tony > > ",7 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article MEKENKAMP@STPC.WI.LeidenUniv.NL (Leo Mekenkamp) writes: >Brian Grier (bjgrier@bnr.ca) wrote: > >> So to most of the computer users in the world MS product symbolize >> quality. MS has made their life easier, and more productive and to them >> that is quality. They do not care about what innovative things MS has >> done, other than to make their life with a computer one heck of a lot >> easier. You may know better than most computer users in this world >> but that will not change their perception. > >Excuse me? Are you one of those people who *enjoy* working w/win? Come talk >to a house-mate of mine and tell him how productive his life is when he >encountered yet another sudden appearence of the DOS-prompt while cutting >and pasting in win! Or an empty win screen without any tasks running (i.e. >^ESC brings up an empty list, progman has done it again.) > >Leo > >----------------------- ""There's Klingons on the starboard bow, ---------- >Leo Mekenkamp scrape 'em off Jim!"" ___ >Klikspaanweg 53/6 ___....-----'---`-----....___ >2324 LZ Leiden ========================================= >The Netherlands ___`---..._______...---'___ >071-323476 (___) _|_|_|_ (___) > \\____.-'_.---._`-.____// >Mekenkamp@STPC.WI.LeidenUniv.NL `~~~~`.__`---'__.'~~~~' >Leo@STHP.WI.LeidenUniv.NL ~~~~~ Been messin roun progman.ini have ye? I'm gessing you've been ""tuning"" the system, that's the only way I can remember getting a blank screen from CTRL-ESC.... when one of the PROGMAN.INI parameters was twinked to 0 or 3, can't remember. I've never seen Win 3 do something like that on her own, Captain. Tal. ",2 "Re: Space Station Redesign, JSC Alternative #4 In article <23APR199317452695@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov> dbm0000@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (David B. Mckissock) writes: > - Man-Tended Capability (Griffin has not yet adopted non-sexist > language) ... Glad to see Griffin is spending his time on engineering rather than on ritual purification of the language. Pity he got stuck with the turkey rather than one of the sensible options. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Re: Ulf and all... You should be ashamed to call yourself an Ulf Samuelson fan. Anybody who plays the way he does, does not belong in the NHL. There have been cheap shot artists through the history of the game, but a lot of them have been talanted players. Bobby Clarke, Kenny Linsemen, Pie McKenzie, Chris Chelios etc.. but nobody has been out right as dirty a cheapshot coward as Ulf. Violence in hockey has got to be curbed and players like (Should have been a Women) Samuelson don't belong. When players like Ulf, who's main purpose is to injure the better players in the league is allowed to continue, and the league won't stop it, the players should. A Christian Pro 1000 aluminum stick directed at his ugly head should do the trick nicely. If the Bruins get a chance to meet Pittsburgh in the near future, you can bet Neely will have his day. The sight of watching Ulf turtle up like the coward he is, is worth almost as much as a Stanely Cup. This wimp of a player almost ruined the career of one the best right wingers in the game. If you are to remove Ulf Samuelson from the lineup, the Penguins would not even notice he's gone. He's an eyesore on the game of hockey. Rich ",10 "detecting double points in bezier curves I'm looking for any information on detecting and/or calculating a double point and/or cusp in a bezier curve. An algorithm, literature reference or mail about this is very appreciated, Ferdinand. ",1 "Re: Rumours about 3DO ??? In article lex@optimla.aimla.com (Lex van Sonderen) writes: >In article erik@westworld.esd.sgi.com (Erik Fortune) writes: >>> better than CDI >>*Much* better than CDI. >Of course, I do not agree. It does have more horsepower. Horsepower is not >the only measurement for 'better'. It does not have full motion, full screen >video yet. Does it have CD-ROM XA? > >>> starting in the 4 quarter of 1993 >>The first 3DO ""multiplayer"" will be manufactured by panasonic and will be >>available late this year. A number of other manufacturers are reported to >>have 3DO compatible boxes in the works. >Which other manufacturers? >We shall see about the date. A 3DO marketing rep. recently offered a Phillips marketing rep. a $100 bet that 3DO would have boxes on the market on schedule. The Phillips rep. declined the bet, probably because he knew that 3DO players are already in pre-production manufacturing runs, 6 months before the commercial release date. By the time of commercial release, there will be other manufacturers of 3DO players announced and possibly already tooling up production. Chip sets will be in full production. The number of software companies designing titles for the box will be over 300. How do I know this? I was at a bar down the road from 3DO headquarters last week. Some folks were bullshitting a little too loudly about company business. >>All this information is third hand or so and worth what you paid for it:-). >This is second hand, but it still hard to look to the future ;-). > >Lex van Sonderen >lex@aimla.com >Philips Interactive Media ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What an impartial source! ",1 "Windows 3.1 Video Driver I've got an old Super VGA card manufactured by SAMPO of Taiwan and I'm looking for a Windows 3.1 Driver for it. It's based on the Cirrus Logic CL-GD510A-32PC-B chip. I've contacted the suppliers here in New Zealand and they say that only Windows 2 divers were ever written by the manufacturer. So if there's a V3.1 driver out for this chip set I'd like to know - preferably by e-mail at rjwjames@waikato.ac.nz Thanks is advance Ross James ",2 "FOR SALE: Altos 2000 Unix machine I have an Altos 2000 System V.3 Unix system for sale (I actually have two, but one's for me). Several years ago these well-known machines sold for $30,000 for the base configuration. This particular one has much more than the base configuration, depending on what you want: - 386 16 MHZ CPU. - 8 meg of ram. - Fifteen (15) serial ports (or more if you want)! - A multidrop port for up to 256 more serial ports! - Ethernet. - 5.25"" floppy drive. - QIC 24 cartridge tape drive. - 170 meg ESDI hard drive (either Micropolis or CDC, or both if you want). - Unix System V.3 installation. - Networking software package (TCP/IP). - Development system software package (C compiler and libraries). I am asking only $700 (firm) for the system! If you want another Ethernet or serial card, add $50. Additional disks are $100 each (I can install a total of three ESDI drives). I would consider a trade for a SCSI DAT tape drive. This box would make a great BBS system or terminal server. It was originally designed to service 40 active users, and up to 70 moderately active users. This is NOT a PC! It was designed to be a Unix box from the start, and it's very fast and exceptionally reliable. It's dimensions are approximately 2.5' high (tower), 8"" wide and 2"" deep. I am only interested in dealing with someone local enough to come pick it up. Shipping is way too much hassle. Call if you wish, or send email. Steve Scherf (408) 736-2093 home (408) 559-5616 work steve@moonsoft.com scherf@swdc.stratus.com Newsgroups: ba.market.misc,ba.market.computers,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,misc.forsale.computers.other Subject: FOR SALE: Altos 2000 Unix machine Summary: Expires: References: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Moondog Software, Sunnyvale, CA. Keywords: I have an Altos 2000 System V.3 Unix system for sale (I actually have two, but one's for me). Several years ago these well-known machines sold for $30,000 for the base configuration. This particular one has much more than the base configuration, depending on what you want: - 386 16 MHZ CPU. - 8 meg of ram. - Fifteen (15) serial ports (or more if you want)! - A multidrop port for up to 256 more serial ports! - Ethernet. - 5.25"" floppy drive. - QIC 24 cartridge tape drive. - 170 meg ESDI hard drive (either Micropolis or CDC, or both if you want). - Unix System V.3 installation. - Networking software package (TCP/IP). - Development system software package (C compiler and libraries). I am asking only $700 (firm) for the system! If you want another Ethernet or serial card, add $50. Additional disks are $100 each (I can install a total of three ESDI drives). I would consider a trade for a SCSI DAT tape drive. This box would make a great BBS system or terminal server. It was originally designed to service 40 active users, and up to 70 moderately active users. This is NOT a PC! It was designed to be a Unix box from the start, and it's very fast and exceptionally reliable. It's dimensions are approximately 2.5' high (tower), 8"" wide and 2"" deep. I am only interested in dealing with someone local enough to come pick it up. Shipping is way too much hassle. Call if you wish, or send email. Steve Scherf (408) 736-2093 home (408) 559-5616 work steve@moonsoft.com scherf@swdc.stratus.com Newsgroups: ba.market.misc,ba.market.computers,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,misc.forsale.computers.other Subject: FOR SALE: Altos 2000 Unix machine Organization: Moondog Software, Sunnyvale, CA. I have an Altos 2000 System V.3 Unix system for sale (I actually have two, but one's for me). Several years ago these well-known machines sold for $30,000 for the base configuration. This particular one has much more than the base configuration, depending on what you want: - 386 16 MHZ CPU. - 8 meg of ram. - Fifteen (15) serial ports (or more if you want)! - A multidrop port for up to 256 more serial ports! - Ethernet. - 5.25"" floppy drive. - QIC 24 cartridge tape drive. - 170 meg ESDI hard drive (either Micropolis or CDC, or both if you want). - Unix System V.3 installation. - Networking software package (TCP/IP). - Development system software package (C compiler and libraries). I am asking only $700 (firm) for the system! If you want another Ethernet or serial card, add $50. Additional disks are $100 each (I can install a total of three ESDI drives). I would consider a trade for a SCSI DAT tape drive. This box would make a great BBS system or terminal server. It was originally designed to service 40 active users, and up to 70 moderately active users. This is NOT a PC! It was designed to be a Unix box from the start, and it's very fast and exceptionally reliable. It's dimensions are approximately 2.5' high (tower), 8"" wide and 2"" deep. I am only interested in dealing with someone local enough to come pick it up. Shipping is way too much hassle. Call if you wish, or send email. Steve Scherf (408) 736-2093 home (408) 559-5616 work steve@moonsoft.com scherf@swdc.stratus.com Newsgroups: ba.market.misc,ba.market.computers,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,misc.forsale.computers.other Subject: FOR SALE: Altos 2000 Unix machine Summary: Expires: References: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Moondog Software, Sunnyvale, CA. Keywords: I have an Altos 2000 System V.3 Unix system for sale (I actually have two, but one's for me). Several years ago these well-known machines sold for $30,000 for the base configuration. This particular one has much more than the base configuration, depending on what you want: - 386 16 MHZ CPU. - 8 meg of ram. - Fifteen (15) serial ports (or more if you want)! - A multidrop port for up to 256 more serial ports! - Ethernet. - 5.25"" floppy drive. - QIC 24 cartridge tape drive. - 170 meg ESDI hard drive (either Micropolis or CDC, or both if you want). - Unix System V.3 installation. - Networking software package (TCP/IP). - Development system software package (C compiler and libraries). I am asking only $700 (firm) for the system! If you want another Ethernet or serial card, add $50. Additional disks are $100 each (I can install a total of three ESDI drives). I would consider a trade for a SCSI DAT tape drive. This box would make a great BBS system or terminal server. It was originally designed to service 40 active users, and up to 70 moderately active users. This is NOT a PC! It was designed to be a Unix box from the start, and it's very fast and exceptionally reliable. It's dimensions are approximately 2.5' high (tower), 8"" wide and 2"" deep. I am only interested in dealing with someone local enough to come pick it up. Shipping is way too much hassle. Call if you wish, or send email. Steve Scherf (408) 736-2093 home (408) 559-5616 work steve@moonsoft.com scherf@swdc.stratus.com Newsgroups: ba.market.misc,ba.market.computers,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,misc.forsale.computers.other Subject: FOR SALE: Altos 2000 Unix machine Organization: Moondog Software, Sunnyvale, CA. I have an Altos 2000 System V.3 Unix system for sale (I actually have two, but one's for me). Several years ago these well-known machines sold for $30,000 for the base configuration. This particular one has much more than the base configuration, depending on what you want: - 386 16 MHZ CPU. - 8 meg of ram. - Fifteen (15) serial ports (or more if you want)! - A multidrop port for up to 256 more serial ports! - Ethernet. - 5.25"" floppy drive. - QIC 24 cartridge tape drive. - 170 meg ESDI hard drive (either Micropolis or CDC, or both if you want). - Unix System V.3 installation. - Networking software package (TCP/IP). - Development system software package (C compiler and libraries). I am asking only $700 (firm) for the system! If you want another Ethernet or serial card, add $50. Additional disks are $100 each (I can install a total of three ESDI drives). I would consider a trade for a SCSI DAT tape drive. This box would make a great BBS system or terminal server. It was originally designed to service 40 active users, and up to 70 moderately active users. This is NOT a PC! It was designed to be a Unix box from the start, and it's very fast and exceptionally reliable. It's dimensions are approximately 2.5' high (tower), 8"" wide and 2"" deep. I am only interested in dealing with someone local enough to come pick it up. Shipping is way too much hassle. Call if you wish, or send email. Steve Scherf (408) 736-2093 home (408) 559-5616 work steve@moonsoft.com scherf@swdc.stratus.com Newsgroups: ba.market.misc,ba.market.computers,misc.forsale,misc.forsale.computers,misc.forsale.computers.other Subject: FOR SALE: Altos 2000 Unix machine Summary: Expires: References: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Moondog Software, Sunnyvale, CA. Keywords: I have an Altos 2000 System V.3 Unix system for sale (I actually have two, but one's for me). Several years ago these well-known machines sold for $30,000 for the base configuration. This particular one has much more than the base configuration, depending on what you want: - 386 16 MHZ CPU. - 8 meg of ram. - Fifteen (15) serial ports (or more if you want)! - A multidrop port for up to 256 more serial ports! - Ethernet. - 5.25"" floppy drive. - QIC 24 cartridge tape drive. - 170 meg ESDI hard drive (either Micropolis or CDC, or both if you want). - Unix System V.3 installation. - Networking software package (TCP/IP). - Development system software package (C compiler and libraries). I am asking only $700 (firm) for the system! If you want another Ethernet or serial card, add $50. Additional disks are $100 each (I can install a total of three ESDI drives). I would consider a trade for a SCSI DAT tape drive. This box would make a great BBS system or terminal server. It was originally designed to service 40 active users, and up to 70 moderately active users. This is NOT a PC! It was designed to be a Unix box from the start, and it's very fast and exceptionally reliable. It's dimensions are approximately 2.5' high (tower), 8"" wide and 2"" deep. I am only interested in dealing with someone local enough to come pick it up. Shipping is way too much hassle. Call if you wish, or send email. Steve Scherf (408) 736-2093 home (408) 559-5616 work steve@moonsoft.com scherf@swdc.stratus.com -- Steve Scherf CEO Moondog Software steve@zeppelin.moonsoft.com ",6 "CLINTON: Press Briefing by George Stephanopoulos 4.5.93 THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _____________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 5, 1993 PRESS BRIEFING BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOLOUS The Briefing Room 10:10 A.M. EDT MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, the President is soon to be on his way, on Amtrack to Camden Yards. He'll be throwing out the first pitch. Q It's MARC, the Maryland Area Transit, it's not Amtrack. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, it's not Amtrack? Well, he's going from Union Station, you're right. Excuse me. Q George, what exactly are you prepared to do to break the logjam with ??? Senate? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, as you know, there are discussions between Senator Mitchell and Senator Dole this morning, and I think that the President is going to continue to make the point that he believes that our investment package, our jobs package needs to be passed as quickly as possible. We need this investment for summer jobs, for immunization, for highway construction, for the important programs that will put people back to work right away this summer. And the President continues to believe his program should be passed. Q Will he compromise, that's the question? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, as you know, the discussions are going on this morning in the Senate betwen Senator Mitchell and Senator Dole, let's see what they come up with. But the President believes his jobs program should go forward. Q George, would the President be willing to accept $8 billion for one year, which apparently appears to be the compromise being offered by -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I don't know what is being offered by either side. The Senate discussions are going on right now, let's see what happens today. Q Would he go that far -- no matter what the Republicans have offered so far, would he go that far, $8 billion per year? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President believes that his program should be passed at this time. Clearly, we're going to be willing to listen to what the Senators might or might not be able to come up with, but I'm not going to get into figures right now. Let's see what happens. Q It's reasonable to assume, isn't it, from what has happened so far that a compromise is going to be necessary in order to get a vote? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the Republicans seem more intrested in stopping progress on the President's jobs bill, than in doing something to create -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the Republicans seem more interested in stopping progress on the President's jobs bill than in doing something to create real action, real jobs this summer for the American people. I think there's no question about that. There's been some frustration of legislative activity over the last few days. Q So, you'll need to compromise to get your package through? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll see what happens with the conversations between Senator Mitchell and Senator Dole this morning. Q prepared to compromise -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President's prepared to listen to what Senator Mitchell has to say this morning after his meeting with Senator Dole. Q Does he feel that he has been defeated in his -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not in the least. In fact, he's been very successful so far in the beginning of his term. Q How? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He passed his budget in record time, in six weeks, and it's a budget which reduces the deficit by $500 billion over five years. And it's a budget which provides for important investments in our future. Right now we've also had strong passage of his jobs program through the House. Simply because a minority of Republicans in the Senate choose to perpetuate gridlock and hold up action on the President's jobs program is not a sign that he is not succeeding overall. Q He can't beat this, can he? Q The fact is they can do that? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the Republicans can stop action. There's no question about that. Q What are you going to do about it? Q George, what do you know about these alleged notes taken by Boris Yeltsin during one of the meetings in which it appears that the President told Boris Yeltsin not to trust the Japanese; that when they say yes they mean no? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's a complete misreading of what happened at the meeting. The context of the conversation was that President Clinton was actually reassuring President Yeltsin at the time about his conversations with Prime Minister Miyazawa over the Kuril Islands and the Prime Minister's belief that Japan would play a constructive role in the G-7 process. I mean this was a casual comment about Japanese courtesy and etiquette but overall it was in the context of a conversation where he was reassuring President Yeltsin that he believed the Japanese were serious about their commitment to the G-7 process. Q Are you saying that the President said that when the Japanese say yes they mean no? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not -- I don't know the exact words and there was a much longer discussion about he did say something along the lines that he believes that on this issue Prime Minister Miyazawa intends to really go forward with the G-7 process. Q Have there been any attempts to explain this to the Japanese because apparently the Japanese press has picked this up and there appears to be -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I've seen the reports in the Japanese press and it actually does put the situation in context. It does talk about the Japanese -- understanding the Japanese points of view. I don't think it's going to be a problem. I believe that there may have been some diplomatic context just to clear things up but I'm not positive. Q George, was the specific comment that was made specific to the Kuril Island situation or was it a general observation on Japanese etiquette? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The discussion was about -- Q The specific comment is what I'm asking about that has alleged to have been translated from the Russian notes, ""when the Japanese say yes they mean no."" MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it was a combination. I mean I don't think that's the whole sentence. I think that the specific comment was a broad, general observation followed up by a specific finish to the sentence where he said in this case he believes that Prime Minister Miyazawa means to keep the commitment. Q Was he saying it facetiously first? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think it was just a casual observation. Q And then you say diplomatic contacts were made to clear it up. Has the President sent a message? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, I don't think the President spoke; I believe that Secretary Christopher has made some calls but I'm not sure exactly how many. Q Well, this obviously is a bigger deal than you're making it out to be if Christopher has had to make some calls. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no. It was just that we got the reports in Vancouver and the Secretary wanted to make sure that it was understood and make sure there was absolutely no MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- reports in Vancouver, and the Secretary wanted to make sure that it was understood, and make sure there is absolutely no misunderstanding, and I don't believe there is on. Q What is our position about the Japanese? That they may have to say one thing, but actualy mean another? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No. The position on the Japanese is as the President stated to President Yeltsin throughout the two days. He said that he had had a good conversation with Prime Minister Miazawa prior to the Summit. He reiterated the U.S. position, the long-standing support for the Japanese position on the Kuril Islands, but also reiterated Prime Minister Miazawa's commitment to move forward on the G-7 process and to play a constructive role. And I think President Yeltsin was very glad to hear that. Q After listening to Secretary Christopher on Iraq for the last few days, I'm a little confused. What is the U.S. policy? Do you want to see Saddam Hussein overturned? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's the same policy that Secretary Christopher has reiterated, and all of the U.S officials have reiterated. We expect full and complete and unequivocal compliance with all U.N. resolutions. Right now we do not have that compliance. Q throwing it out further that if Iraq complies, Saddam can't stay in office? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right. I think that that's -- our judgment is that it is not possible for Saddam Hussein to comply with the resolutions and stay in power. But the important point is that we expect compliance by Iraq with all U.N. resolutions, and we will continue to demand it. Q And are you concerned the Iran will become the dominant power in the area -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Secretary Christopher has also spoken to Iran over the last several days, and he says we also expect full Iranian compliance with all international norms, and stopping support of terrorism. Q That's a very glib statement that he won't stay in power if he complies with U.N. resolutions. On what logic do you base that? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Right now Saddam Hussein is not complying with the U.N. resolutions at all. He is not respecting the rights of his people, as is required by the U.N. resolution. He is not fully complying with all the resolutions regarding inspections. He is not fully complying with all the resolutions regarding armaments. Q Well, when do you think that if he did comply he would be out of power? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, right now his power rests on the repression of his people. If he stopped doing that it would make it more difficult for him to stay in power. Q George, back on the stimulus package, why is it that you and the President accuse the Republicans of playing pure politics and perpetuating gridlock? Why is it that -- what evidence do you have that they just don't have a genuine idealogical difference with you that's in good faith? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, the fact that several times in the past the Republicans, many of the ones who are now leading the fight for the filibuster, have supported the very funding they now seek to stop, most especially, the highway funding. Q George, in regards to that, some of the moderate Republicans said that the White House erred by not being more open to them during the -- while the plan was put together, that they had one, sort of, proforma meeting between the White House and the Senate Republicans, and that was it. Does the Administration look back and thinks perhaps it could have done a better job of working with some - - MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I'm not sure that it's true that there was only one meeting. I mean, the President met with the Republican leadership on at least two occasions before the introduction of his package. He met with the entire Senate Republican Caucus also for lunch, and went up there. We are continually in contact with as many Republicans as we can find who have an interest in the President's package. We are interested in what they have to say, as well. But we believe that this program is important, and we're going to continue to fight for it. Q your all or nothing, do it with the Democrats alone strategy, did you maybe miscalculate the ability to get it through? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I mean, I think that there is no question that under the Senate rules a determined minority can frustrate activity. I mean, there is just no question about that. You only need 40 plus one to keep going. 40 plus one to keep going and to stop any action, and that's what the Republicans are doing. Q going to rethink the way you attempt to get other things passed as you go through this process for the rest of the summer? Q work with Republicans and try to woo some Republicans into your camp? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think we're going to continue to look for the support of Republicans whenever we can get it on the President's intiatives? Q But on this one -- how are you going to do it differently than you did it on this one because on this one you really did stiff the Republicans from the beginning and made it clear that it was a Democratic majority that would get this through and could get it through and you really didn't need Republican votes? Are you going to take a different tack when you have to go for particular votes? When you have to go through -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can't see into the future and understand every possible turn in the legislative road. Clearly the President's going to continue to reach out when he can. Q You don't have any regrets then about the way you have handled it up to now and you don't plan any changes in your approach in dealing with the Republicans in Congress based on this experience? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Obviously the President would like his package passed as quickly as possible and he's going to continue to press for that. We will continue to reach out to Republicans, there's not question about that. And we'll continue to reason with them and try and find appropriate avenues for cooperation. In this case the Republicans have chosen to unify around a filibuster, around a plan to frustrate action not a plan to move forward. Q They're being denied any other legislative means of putting their proposals forward. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think they're being -- Q any ideas. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think their amendments are being defeated; I don't know that they're being denied. Q to present them. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not exactly true. I mean they get the votes -- Q that theirs can be passed though by the parliamentary rules under which they're playing. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Unless they get a majority in support all the way around, no, that's not exactly true. Q George, one more on Iraq. Is the administration backing any of the Iraqi opposition? Grooming any new leadership? Q backing any of the Iraqi -- leadership? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Oh, I -- again, we're pressing for Iraqi compliance. I don't know if we can get into the business of grooming leadership. I believe there have been some contacts, at some levels, with Iraqi opposition groups. I don't know about anything recently. Q Jesse Jackson, who, of course, is not the President's best friend, has, however, been told that there is to be some kind of town meeting, or some kind of involvement by the President, pre-empted the ball game -- Los Angeles. Will he consider something like that, or any other kind of intervention there? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, as you know, the President appointed Commerce Secretary Ron Brown, about 10 days ago, to be a special envoy to California, and coordiante cabinet activities around the California economic situation, including the situation in Los Angeles. I believe there will also be visits out to Los Angeles by the Education -- or have been visits by the Education Secretary, Mr. Riley. I believe that Transportation Secretary Pena and HUD Secretary Cisneros are also going out. And there may be other visits by Cabinet officials over the next several days and weeks. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a visit by President Clinton to California. Obviously, he is following the situation closely, and is concerned about making sure that we make the right long term policy decisions that will help create the kind of economic opportunities which help prevent disturbances. But we're going to continue to watch it. Q George, as a follow-up, Reverend Jackson is also supposed to be outside the ball park today, in Baltimore, with a group of supporters protesting the lack of minorities in baseball management. Does the President have a position on that? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has received correspondence from Reverend Jackson. I know that Reverend Jackson has also spoken with the White House Chief of Staff, Mack McLarty. He clearly raises serious questions. There has been some progress in baseball over the last several years, but still not enough. But the President intends to continue to go to the ball game. Q Is he going to say anything about it today, or see Reverend Jackson while he's out there? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if he is going to see them, but as I said, the President believes that Reverend Jackson has raised some serious questions, and it's something that, as I said, even though there has been progress, it's clearly not enough. Q Did Reverend Jackson ask him not to go to the ball game? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not sure about that. I believe the characterization the Reverend Jackson is talking about is an informational pickett. I don't know that he asked him not to go to the ball game, but he sent a long, detailed, formal letter outlining his concerns with the situation in major league baseball and the President read it. Q George, the Orioles are playing the Rangers, the managing partner of the Rangers is George W. Bush. Is he going to be there, and is he going to meet with the President? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know. Q What is the Mubarak schedule? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I know that President Mubarak is coming tomorrow morning for a working meeting, they will have a lunch, and I believe that he is having dinner tonight with Vice President Gore. Q And joint statements tomorrow -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I believe so, yes. At the end, yes. Q Is there evidence, George, that the Egyptians did warn the U.S. about a potential terrorist bombing -- terrorist activities? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As reported in The New York Times, I mean, I think that President Mubarak did say that there has been general conversations with the Egyptians, as there have been for a long period of time. We do have general intelligence sharing, I mean. But President Mubarak was very careful to point out that there was no specific information on this visit that was passed forward. The President will continue to investigate the situation, but he also reiterates his belief that we cannot tolerate terrorism of any kind. Q George, he did make specific -- or the Egyptians, apparently, did issue specific warnings about this individual who, forgive me --this individual who, forgive me the name escapes me at the moment, and said the Egyptians were more or less rebuffed in their attempts to get some kind of action. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know if I would agree with your characterization of the Mubarak interview. He did say that they gave general warnings about the possibility of a network in the United States and upon which we took appropriate action. But there was no specific information on this specific operation at all. Q So, the White House doesn't feel that any of the law enforcement agencies whether it be the CIA or FBI who would have received this kind of information was lax or derelict in its duty in not pursuing some kind of -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, not at all. Q What's next with Serbia? It got only a passing mention in the news conference yesterday -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: You didn't get to ask your question. Q Yes, exactly. Was there any agreement on concerted action between the two countries? And even if there wasn't, what does the U.S. do next? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think the U.S. is clearly going to move forward in the U.N. today continuing discussions with our allies on a sanctions resolution and we'll continue to look for ways to press the Serbians to come to the negotiating table and sign an agreement. Q George, why do you think sanctions is still an option? I mean the Serbians make it clear that at least the leadership is surviving just fine and they feel like they can wait you out and even the administration officials we had in the other day said there's no evidence that they're going to have an effect any time soon. The Bosnian Serbs have said no to the peace plan. When does no mean no and you have to do something different? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I mean we are doing something different. We're moving forward on further sanctions through the U.N. and those discussions will continue. We're going to continue to try and tighten the noose on Serbia, and I think that every opportunity we have to do that will have an effect over time. Q Are we looking again at lifting the arms embargo? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President has said that this is something that is under consideration. Q George, do you have any more on Hugh Rodham's condition, how he's doing? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As far as I know nothing's changed. Q George, -- week after Mr. Mubarak? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's a little unclear. I think we'll be able to get you more either tonight or tomorrow morning after the Mubarak visit. Q Is he going somewhere for Easter? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not that I know of. Q What more can you tell us about the additional aid to Russia that the President plans to ask Congress about? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: He's going to be consulting with the Congress and with our G-7 partners over the next couple of weeks. I know that he spoke last evening with Congressman Gephardt and their delegation before the -- the congressional delegation meets with the Russians this week and those consultations will continue over the next several weeks. Q Do you expect that package to be of the magnitude of the one announced Sunday? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm not going to discuss the magnitude. Q How about the list of Cold War restrictions, where do you stand on that -- MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As the President said yesterday, he's going to be looking for that list from the Congress this week and reviewing it. He believes -- he's going to try and get it this week and he's going to review the list, and we're going to take a hard look at it. Q But they're making it up? I mean it's no White House involvement, Congress is compiling this list? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he's going to talk to the congressional leaders about compiling the list but I'm certain we'll be able to get our own researchers working as well. Q George, isn't lifting the arms embargo more of a probability than a possibility? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: It's something that's under discussion. Q Secretary Christopher has said that it's a matter of time and -- for months before that happens. MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, all I can say is that it's something that the President is reviewing. Right now we're working with our allies in the U.N on a sanctions resolution, and we'll continue to review other matters. Q George, can you tell us anything about the schedule this week? Any travel? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: They just asked about that. I don't have anything more beyond tomorrow's visit with Mubarak right now. Q Are there consultations, George, with any Jewish American organizations concerning Jackson-Vanick? MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know the National Conference of Soviet Jewry has a list of, I believe, MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: -- as you know, the National Conference of Soviet Jewry has a list of, I believe, 200 Refuseniks. We'll certainly take a look at that and continue appropriate discussions. Thanks. ### ",18 "Re: PUBLIC HEARINGS on Ballot Access, Vote Fraud and Other Issues If anyone believes that the referenced posting was inappropriately sent to this news group why not send Bob Waldrop a message so informing him. In article <1993Apr5.200958.15654@dsd.es.com> (Bob.Waldrop@f418.n104.z1.fidonet.org Bob Waldrop) writes: > Announcing. . . Announcing. . . Announcing. . . Announcing >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > PUBLIC HEARINGS > on the compliance by the > UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT > and the governments of the states of > > ... > THE INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON CIVIL > AND POLITICAL RIGHTS > (signed 5 October 1977) > >... -- doug foxvog dfo@tko.vtt.fi ",16 "Re: Magellan Venus Maps (Thanks) Thanks Ron and Peter for some very nice maps. I have an advice though. You wrote that the maps were reduced to 256 colors. As far ad I understand JPEG pictures gets much better (and the compressed files smaller) if you use the original 3 color 24 bit data when converting to JPEG. Thanks again, -- Roland Karlsson SICS, PO Box 1263, S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN Internet: roland@sics.se Tel: +46 8 752 15 40 Fax: +46 8 751 72 30 Telex: 812 6154 7011 SICS Ttx: 2401-812 6154 7011=SICS ",14 "Re: Final Solution for Gaza ? In article <1483500366@igc.apc.org> Center for Policy Research writes: > >There are basically three alternatives for Gaza: 4. Annex Gaza to Egypt. 5. Annex Gaza to Israel 6. Maintain the status quo. 7. Partition Gaza into a Jewish and an Arab state. I don't necisarily support any of these, I just felt like pointing out there are way more than three solutions. Next time, maybe we'll see some research into them.... Adam Adam Shostack adam@das.harvard.edu ""If we had a budget big enough for drugs and sexual favors, we sure wouldn't waste them on members of Congress..."" -John Perry Barlow ",17 "Re: temperature of the dark sky In article <1993Apr28.002214.16544@Princeton.EDU>, richmond@spiff.Princeton.EDU (Stupendous Man) writes: > If that's the case, let me point out that interstellar dust and > molecules provide many instances of things that are, well, not-too-far > from being blackbodies. Many different observations, including IRAS > and COBE, have determined that interstellar dust grain temperatures > can range from 40K to 150K. Interstellar grains are not at all close to blackbodies. The ""large"" grains have sizes of order 0.1 micron and absorb visible light with fair efficiency. However, at temperatures below 100 K, 90% of the thermal emission will be beyond 22 microns, where radiating efficiency is poor. (A small antenna cannot easily radiate at long wavelengths.) Thus the grains must heat up more in order to radiate the energy they have absorbed. Moreover, the IRAS observations had a maximum wavelength of 100 microns. Grains colder than 30 K will radiate primarily at longer wavelengths, and IRAS would be relatively insensitive to them. In the extreme limit, grains as cold as 5 K will be almost undetectable by any conceivable observation. Worse still, IRAS color temperatures are heavily contaminated by a population of ""small"" grains. These grains have only perhaps 50 atoms, and when they are hit by a single photon they heat up to temperatures of several hundred or 1000 K. Of course they cool quickly and then stay cold for a while, but _when they are radiating_ the characteristic temperature is several hundred K. Even a small population of these grains can dramatically raise the observed ""average"" temperature. A model for local infrared emission consistent with COBE data has three components. These represent scattered radiation from Zodiacal dust (color temperature 5500 K), thermal emission from Zodiacal dust (Tc = 280 K), and thermal emission from Galactic dust (Tc=25 K). At the ecliptic poles, the emissivities or dilution factors are respectively 1.9E-13, 4E-8, and 2E-5. The first two are roughly doubled in the ecliptic plane. To find the thermal equilibrium temperature, we add up the dilution factor times the fourth power of temperature for all components, then take the fourth root. In the table below, starlight comes from Allen's number that stellar emission from the whole sky is equivalent to 460 zero mag stars with B-V color of 0.75. No doubt careful work could do much better. (The person who suggested starlight had a dilution factor of E-4 must have been remembering wrong. We would be cooked if that were the case. In any event, the energy density of starlight comes out about the same as that of the microwave background, and I believe that to be correct.) Dilution Temp. DT^4 Microwave background 1 2.7 53 Galactic dust 2E-5 25 8 Zodiacal dust (emission) 6E-8 280 369 Zodiacal dust (scattering) 3E-13 5500 275 Starlight 1E-13 5500 92 ----- 797 The fourth root of 797 is 5.3 K. Outside the Solar system, the result would be 3.5 K. I find these results surprising, especially the importance of Zodiacal dust, but I don't see any serious mistakes. -- Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 Bitnet: willner@cfa Cambridge, MA 02138 USA Internet: willner@cfa.harvard.edu member, League for Programming Freedom; contact lpf@uunet.uu.net ",14 "DC-X Rollout Report McDonnell Douglas rolls out DC-X HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. -- On a picture-perfect Southern California day, McDonnell Douglas rolled out its DC-X rocket ship last Saturday. The company hopes this single-stage rocket technology demonstrator will be the first step towards a single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO) rocket ship. The white conical vehicle was scheduled to go to the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico this week. Flight tests will start in mid-June. Although there wasn't a cloud in the noonday sky, the forecast for SSTO research remains cloudy. The SDI Organization -- which paid $60 million for the DC-X -- can't itself afford to fund full development of a follow-on vehicle. To get the necessary hundreds of millions required for a sub-orbital DC-XA, SDIO is passing a tin cup among its sister government agencies. SDIO originally funded SSTO research as a way to cut the costs for orbital deployments of space-based sensors and weapns. However, recent changes in SDI's political marching orders and budget cuts have made SSTO less of a priority. Today, the agency is more interested in using DC-X as a step towards a low-cost, reusable sounding rocket. SDIO has already done 50 briefings to other government agencies, said Col. Simon ""Pete"" Worden, SDIO's deputy for technology. But Worden declined to say how much the agencies would have to pony up for the program. ""I didn't make colonel by telling my contractors how much money I have available to spend,"" he quipped at a press conference at McDonnell Douglas Astronautics headquarters. While SDIO has lowered its sights on the program's orbital objective, agency officials hail the DC-X as an example of the ""better, faster, cheaper"" approach to hardware development. The agency believes this philosophy can produce breakthroughs that ""leapfrog"" ahead of evolutionary technology developments. Worden said the DC-X illustrates how a ""build a little, test a little"" approach can produce results on time and within budget. He said the program -- which went from concept to hardware in around 18 months -- showed how today's engineers could move beyond the ""miracles of our parents' time."" ""The key is management,"" Worden said. ""SDIO had a very light hand on this project. We had only one overworked major, Jess Sponable."" Although the next phase may involve more agencies, Worden said lean management and a sense of government-industry partnership will be crucial. ""It's essential we do not end up with a large management structure where the price goes up exponentially."" SDIO's approach also won praise from two California members of the House Science, Space and Technology Committee. ""This is the direction we're going to have to go,"" said Rep. George Brown, the committee's Democratic chairman. ""Programs that stretch aout 10 to 15 years aren't sustainable....NASA hasn't learned it yet. SDIO has."" Rep. Dana Rohrbacher, Brown's Republican colleague, went further. Joking that ""a shrimp is a fish designed by a NASA design team,"" Rohrbacher doubted that the program ever would have been completed if it were left to the civil space agency. Rohrbacher, whose Orange County district includes McDonnell Douglas, also criticized NASA-Air Force work on conventional, multi-staged rockets as placing new casings around old missile technology. ""Let's not build fancy ammunition with capsules on top. Let's build a spaceship!"" Although Rohrbacher praised SDIO's sponsorship, he said the private sector needs to take the lead in developing SSTO technology. McDonnell Douglas, which faces very uncertain prospects with its C-17 transport and Space Station Freedom programs, were more cautious about a large private secotro commitment. ""On very large ventures, companies put in seed money,"" said Charles Ordahl, McDonnell Douglas' senior vice president for space systems. ""You need strong government investments."" While the government and industry continue to differ on funding for the DC-XA, they agree on continuing an incremental approach to development. Citing corporate history, they liken the process to Douglas Aircraft's DC aircraft. Just as two earlier aircraft paved the way for the DC-3 transport, a gradual evolution in single-stage rocketry could eventually lead to an orbital Delta Clipper (DC-1). Flight tests this summer at White Sands will ""expand the envelope"" of performance, with successive tests increasing speed and altitude. The first tests will reach 600 feet and demonstrate hovering, verticle take-off and landing. The second series will send the unmanned DC-X up to 5,000 feet. The third and final series will take the craft up to 20,000 feet. Maneuvers will become more complex on third phase. The final tests will include a ""pitch-over"" manever that rotates the vehicle back into a bottom-down configuration for a soft, four-legged landing. The flight test series will be supervised by Charles ""Pete"" Conrad, who performed similar maneuvers on the Apollo 12 moon landing. Now a McDonnell Douglas vice president, Conrad paised the vehicles aircraft-like approach to operations. Features include automated check-out and access panels for easy maintainance. If the program moves to the next stage, engine technology will become a key consideration. This engine would have more thrust than the Pratt & Whitney RL10A-5 engines used on the DC-X. Each motor uses liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen propellants to generate up to 14,760 pounds of thrust Based on the engine used in Centaur upper stages, the A-5 model has a thrust champer designed for sea level operation and three-to-on throttling capability. It also is designed for repeat firings and rapid turnaround. Worden said future single-stage rockets could employ tri-propellant engine technology developed in the former Soviet Union. The resulting engines could burn a dense hydrocarbon fuel at takeoff and then switch to liquid hydrogen at higher altitudes. The mechanism for the teaming may already be in place. Pratt has a technology agreement with NPO Energomash, the design bureau responsible for the tri-propellant and Energia cryogenic engines. ",14 "Remote TEKTRONICS emulation Hello, I am looking for someone to help me with the proceedure for remote login, via modem not ethernet, to our new silicon graphics iris machines. I can log in to them only as a vt100 terminal regardless of what I am emulating on my end. I have communication software, kermit, which supports tek 401x and vt102 emulation. The x windows manual lists XTERM as the appropriate command to change the terminal type. When I try it the reponse is 'unable to open window' Thanx in advance Keith Grider -- __________________________________________________________________________ Keith Grider 'Come on man, let's go do the crimes kgrider@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Yeah, Lets get sushi, and not pay' Repo Man ",5 "Need Sharp 6220, T2000 parts, information I'm looking for a Sharp 6220 or TI Travelmate 2000 for parts. Mine has a bad RAM chip on the motherboard and I want to see what I can get for parts before sending it off to Sharp for repairs. If you have one, drop me a line. Also, I'm trying to set one up for a friend who needs to read his old 5 1/4 inch diskettes. Anyone have the pinout of the diskette expansion connector on the back of the 3.5 inch floppy box? If you respond, please include a phone number. I can't always get through with email. As always, Thanks, Jim Lewczyk -- Mailer address is buggy! Reply to: jiml@strauss.FtCollinsCO.NCR.com James Lewczyk 1-303-223-5100 x9267 NCR-MPD Fort Collins, CO jim.lewczyk@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM ",6 "H E L P M E ---> desperate with some VD I have bad luck and got a VD called , which involves the growth of granules in the groin. I found out about it by checking medicine books and I found the prescriptions. And I know I can just go to a clinic to get it cured. BUT unfortunately I am serving my duty in the army right now and I think it's impossible to prevent anyone from knowing this if I take leaves every day for two weeks for treatment. Thus I bought the prescribed tablets at some drugstore, but to cure it I must get INJECTION of , with a dose of 1g every 12 hours, for at least 10 days. I can probably buy the tools and this solution somewhere but I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO INJECTION BY MYSELF ! Can any kind people here tell me: If it's possible to do it? Can I do it on my arm? or it must be done on the hip only?? Any info is welcome and please write me or post your help SOON!! (I am already taking the tablets ..and I can't wait!!) Please don't flame me for posting this, and don't judge me. I've learned a lesson and all I need now is REAL MEDICAL HELP. Desperate from Taipei ",13 "Angels on needles? I recall reading somewhere that a number of bishops spent a great deal of time debating the topic of ""how many angels could fit on the tip of a needle"". Does anybody have a reference to this? Thanks Joe Armstrong ",15 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <930422.113807.7Q9.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew writes: #frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #> In article <930421.102525.9Y9.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew #> writes: #> #frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: #> #> Presumably this means that some moral systems are better than others? #> #> How so? How do you manage this without an objective frame of reference? #> # #> #Which goes faster, a bullet or a snail? How come you can answer that when #> #Einstein proved that there isn't an objective frame of reference? #> #> Not that Einstein ""proved"" anything, # #Oh, yes he did. You may not agree with his premises, and what he proved may #not apply to ""reality"" (if such a thing exists), but he certainly proved #something. # #> but you can't answer it, and your #> answer be in general true. # #Got it in one. Similarly, a moral relativist will not judge one moral system #to be better than another in every possible circumstance. This does not, #however, preclude him from judging one moral system to be better than another #in a specific set of circumstances. Nor does it preclude a set of moral #relativists from collectively judging a moral system, from some set of #circumstances which they all agree they are in. O.K., this makes sense to me. (I'm serious, you've explained something to me which I never understood before). But just for grins, suppose we almost all agree that we are in a set of circumstances called ""reality"". What then? Or say, for all practical intents and purposes, there is no frame of reference in which thus and such is good, isn't that approximately objective, in the same way that we usually expect a speeding bullet to outrun a snail? For example, if we hear of a bomb in a crowded area, isn't it a rather sensible first guess that this is an immoral act, even though there conceivably might be some tail-end case that would justify it? #> And even that statement assumes an #> objective reality independent of our beliefs about it. # #Eh? Could you explain this? Which ""that statement"" are you talking about? My own, above. ""you can't answer..."" # #> #> And what weasel word do you use to describe that frame of reference, if #> #> it isn't an objective reality for values? #> # #> #I'm sorry, I can't parse ""an objective reality for values"". Could you try #> #again? #> #> s/an objective reality for values/some values are real even in the face #> of disagreement/ # #I still don't quite see what you're trying to say. I assume by ""values"" you #mean moral values, yes? In which case, what do you mean by ""real""? What is #a ""real"" moral value, as opposed to an unreal one? I mean to say that values are as real as horses, whatever you understand by a horse being real is pretty much what I mean about a value being real. #> If you are saying that some moral systems are better than others, in #> your opinion, then all you get is infinite regress. # #Sorry, but in what way is it an infinite regress? It looks extremely finite #to me. I meant that it's never more than your opinion. You've clarified this for me above. My understanding is now that if a supermajority of relativists agree that thus and such is wrong in almost any or all frames of reference, then they're saying something which is to all practical intents and purposes no different than what I'm saying. # #> What you do not get #> is any justification for saying that the moral system of the terrorist #> is inferior to that of the man of peace. # #Sorry, but that's not so. I can provide a justification for asserting that #the moral system of the terrorist is inferior to that of the man of peace. I #just can't provide a justification which works in all possible circumstances. Logically possible, or actually possible? By which I mean, are you stretching possible to include events such as the atoms in my terminal switching places so that the terminal turns upside down, or do you think it likely that circumstances will arise in which terrorism is superior to peace. Really what I'm after is some order of magnitude on the probability you put on 'possible'. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",19 "Re: >>>>>>Pompous ass kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes: >>Then why do people keep asking the same questions over and over? >Because you rarely ever answer them. Nope, I've answered each question posed, and most were answered multiple times. keith ",0 "Re: Zionist leaders' frank statements In article <1t6aqj$odv@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes: >In article <2BF69FC7.2150@news.service.uci.edu> tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes: >> >>Try coming up with your own definition of any or all ""self-hating"" peoples. >>To me, any who reject their culture to the point where they *only* see the >>absolute negatives of that culture (generally, or regarding a particular >>event) and accept *only* those views purely opposing aspects of that culture >>(thus, selective belief in/use of historical facts and a complete ignoring >>of ""context"" results) ""hate"" their culture. > >I believe that things are getting mixed here. >Critizicing Israel and/or being anti-zionist is not seeing ""the absolute >negatives of that culture"". If that ""culture"" referred to is Israeli, being anti-zionist can be seen as a complete denial of that entity's right to exist and its ""legitimacy"". Just as saying that Islam has *no right* to establish and implement a ""state"" that includes any non-muslims, both are *absolute*, one-dimensional views of that culture with regard to the issue of ""state"". >Maybe, because a person can see the positives >of that culture is that that person opposes zionism and the actions of the >State of Israel. If that were the case, one would expect a few of that culture's positives to be discussed with regard to the issue at hand. Since the issue *centers* on Israeli culture, I have yet to hear of *any* positives of that culture in this discussion. >I, for one, consider the actions of the State of Israel with respect to >the human rights of the Palestinian people as an example of an action thaty >opposes what Jewish culture was suppose to uphold as an example of >respect and what the Jewish people learned about oppresion, segregation and >years in the diaspora. I agree with you. But I also feel that when a culture feels it is confronted by another group that wishes to see that culture ""disassembled"", the first culture has little choice but to *try* to secure its ""survival"" as well as maintain its moral center. Since the culture is not about to turn away from *either* the matter of its survival or the valuing of its moral principles, it has the virtually impossible job of ""balancing"". To discuss Israel's faults and ""crimes"" without *any* recognition of this circumstance and *reality* it faces is a conscious decision based on the discussant's political biases, NOT on an honest and empathetically open understanding of the situation. The same applies to those who attempt to paint the Palestinian movement as ""all bad"" and dispense with considerations of the *reality* facing them. > >>That certainly describes Elias, >>since he has no intention of recognizing that, alongside the Palestinian >>experience and perspective, there exists also that of Israelis. > >He might not want to recognize that. It does not make him a self-hating >Jew, as far as I see it. At most, he is a person who is not telling >the truth. You beg the question by centering on the symptoms while the issue of ""self-hating"" addresses the motivations. I certainly feel that anyone who expends so much effort inflating, distorting and robbing human context from aspects of his/her own culture is reflecting a degree of dislike for it. Since bits of that culture are bound, due to his/her upbringing, to be a part of him/her, a bit of self- dislike seems likely to be mixed in somewhere. >>>> >>>> ""Who is a Jew? A person whose integrity decays when unmoved >>>> by the knowledge of wrong done to other people."" >>>> A. J. Heschel >>> >>>That is why I get moved when I see the Israeli Army killing people in >>>the Occupied Territories as much as I get moved when I see a Plestinian >>>stabing people in Israel. >>> >>And, this is precisely why Israeli society has been tremendously harmed >>by the actions it (its government) has *felt it had to take* in response >>to an ""other"" perceived as a threat. Just as with you, there has long >>been a strident and emotional debate about the pain Israelis feel when >>forced to ""balance"" desires for survival and moral beliefs. The trauma >>of having to make that choice is made worse by the fact that neither >>can be conveniently brushed aside (as a result of a reasoned political >>debate) for the sake of the other, only reshaped. >> > >But, so far, it seems that the blame is always put on ""the other"". >If you read this newsgroup, for example, Israel is never guilty by >herself. She is always responding to the actions of the ""other"", and >it goes as if the actions of Isreal do not also affect the response >of the ""other' in a cycle that never ends. Also, there is blindness to >try to understand what the other feels and why. As you well know, this process of *blaming the other* for the morally questionable actions one side is forced (by the ""other"", of course) to take is thoroughly practiced by **both sides**. If you are only hearing the pro-Israeli crowd's self-supporting arguments, that may be due to the fact that you are not listening for anything else. *I* certainly hear the similarly distorting pro-Palestinian/pro-Arab element in *this* newsgroup (as well as in soc.culture.arabic). >There is always and excuse. There is always a rationale to explain why >things happen as they do. And, what is the worst part for me, there >seems to be all the time an intention to try to de-humanize the ""other"", >as if the other did not care about their future, children, peace, etc, etc. > >AAP I agree, agree, agree, agree. However, in my response to the initial discussion above between Davidsson and those opposing his presentations, I saw Davidsson carefully putting academic frills around a blatantly one-sided series of I-hate/dislike- ""them"", yesIdo,yesIdo,yesIdo. I did *not* find the approach of those opposing Davidsson to be centered *at all* on a denigration and denial of the ""other side"". I certainly do wonder if the degree to which Davidsson's views on the Middle East have distorted is connected to his dislike and rejection of his jewish lineage. Having said this, however, I agree with you that this constant accusing others of being ""self-hating"" jews seems pointless. It is not worse a label than is ""why, you're on their side"", except to perhaps imply a certain degree of overly enthusiastic biasedness. Tim -- Tim Clock Ph.D./Graduate student UCI tel#: 714,8565361 Department of Politics and Society fax#: 714,8568441 University of California - Irvine Home tel#: 714,8563446 Irvine, CA 92717 ",17 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes: #frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes ... #>Plus questions for you: why do subjectivists/relativists/nihilists get so #>het up about the idea that relativism is *better* than objectivism? # #To the degree that relativism is a more accurate decription of the #truth than is objectivism, it provides more power and ability to #control events. I think you lose the right to talk about THE truth once you say values are relative. Accuracy is a value judgement, too. It so happens I agree with the substance of what you say below, but it's clear to me that at least *some* values are objective. Truth is better than falsehood, peace is better than war, education is better than ignorance. We know these things, if we know anything. #Assuming, for the moment, that morals _are_ relative, then two #relativists can recognize that neither has a lock on the absolute #truth and they can proceed to negotiate a workable compromise that #produces the desired results. No they cannot, because they acknowledge up front that THE desired results do not exist. That, after all, is the meaning of compromise. Plus some problems: If the relativists have no values in common, compromise is impossible - what happens then? Who, if anyone, is right? What happens if one relativist has a value ""Never compromise?"". A value ""plant bombs in crowded shopping areas""? After all, if morals are relative, these values cannot *meaningfully* be said to be incorrect. #Assuming that there is an absolute morality, two disagreeing #objectivists can either be both wrong or just one of them right; there #is no room for compromise. Once you beleive in absolute morals, #you must accept that you are amoral or that everyone who disagrees #with you is amoral. Untrue. One can accept that one does not know the whole truth. Part of the objective truth about morality may well be that flexibility is better than rigidity, compromise is better than believing you have a lock on morals, etc. In the same way, I can believe in an objective reality without claiming to know the mechanism for quantum collapse, or who shot JFK. #Given a choice between a peaceful compromise or endless contention, #I'd say that compromise seems to be ""better"". And I would agree. But it's bloody to pointless to speak of it if it's merely a matter of taste. Is your liking for peace any better founded than someone else's liking for ice-cream? I'm looking for a way to say ""yes"" to that question, and relativism isn't it. -- Frank O'Dwyer 'I'm not hatching That' odwyer@sse.ie from ""Hens"", by Evelyn Conlon ",0 "Announcing tcpview: A Motif-based TCP/IP protocol analyzer Tcpview is the result of several problems we had at UW. We have several Network General Sniffers which are heavily used to help debug problems on several hundred subnets. These are good tools, but they are 1) heavy, 2) hard to find when you need one, 3) limited in their software expandibility, 4) difficult to use to upload data for analysis, 5) cannot be remotely operated, and 6) cannot resolve names with DNS, requiring much manual manipulation of the name table. We also sometimes use tcpdump, but we found it 1) too difficult for most people, 2) did not have enough information for many protocols, 3) could not be used interactively, 4) could not handle TCP streams and 5) could not read Sniffer files. However, tcpdump did do a reasonable job of decoding a large number of protocols, and could be easily modified. Tcpview is an attempt to resolve these problems by adding a Motif interface to tcpdump and expanding its features. Tcpview has been tested on a DECstation 5000 and Sun 4 under Ultrix 4.2 and SunOS 4.1 respectively. It should work on the same systems as tcpdump. It compiles with cc and gcc on the DEC and Sun. To build tcpview you will need Motif 1.1 or better. The following files are available for anonymous ftp from ftp.cac.washington.edu in /pub/networking tcpview-1.0.tar.Z tcpview and tcpdump source code tcpview-1.0.sun.tar.Z Sun4 binaries tcpview-1.0.dec.tar.Z DEC Mips Ultrix 4.2 binaries What tcpview adds to tcpdump: - easier interface - enhanced protocol decoding - hex display of frame - capture based on time, number of frames, or user interrupt - can show ethernet addresses with manufacturer's name - ethernet address host table - can easily follow a stream, highlighting out-of-order frames - can send TCP data to an external file or filter for additional processing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CHANGES TO TCPDUMP 2.2.1 New features: Now reads and writes Network General Sniffer files. When used with '-r', the file type will be automatically detected. Can now read in (and use) an SNMP MIB file. The hex format has been changed. New time options have been added. Options were added to allow viewing and processing of the data in TCP packets. Bugs were fixed in the relative TCP sequence numbers. (-S flag) New flags: -R read Sniffer file. Not usually needed, except for reading from stdin -ttt prints delta times -tttt prints times relative to the first frame -W write a Sniffer save file (use with -w) -x print frame (minus link-level header) in hexdump format. Sample output: 16:36:23.349851 jeff.cac.washington.edu.1285 > nic.funet.fi.ftp: S 0:0(0) win 16384 0000 45 00 00 28 8a 98 00 00 3c 06 7c 9c 80 5f 70 02 | E..(....<.|.._p. 0010 80 d6 06 64 05 05 00 15 5b 19 4a 00 00 00 00 00 | ...d....[.J..... 0020 50 02 40 00 4e 13 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 | P.@.N......... -X print TCP data in hexdump format (used with -Z) -z write TCP data to stdout (use with -t to eliminate timestamp) -Z write frames and TCP data to stdout Martin M. Hunt martinh@cac.washington.edu Networks & Distributed Computing University of Washington -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Hunt martinh@cac.washington.edu Networks and Distributed Computing University of Washington ",5 "Re: Israel's Expansion In article <18APR93.15729846.0076@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, B8HA000 writes: >Just a couple of questions for the pro-Israeli lobby out there: > >1) Is Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon temporary? For Mr. >Stein: I am working on a proof for you that Israel is diverting >water to the Jordan River (away from Lebanese territory). Yes. As long as the goverment over there can force some authority and prevent terrorists attack against Israel. > >2) Is Israel's occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan >temporary? If so (for those of you who support it), why were so >many settlers moved into the territories? If it is not temporary, >let's hear it. Sinai had several big cities that were avcuated when isreal gave it back to Egypth, but for a peace agreement. So it is my opinin that the settlers will not be an obstacle for withdrawal as long it is combined with a real peace agreement with the Arabs and the Palastinians. > >Steve > Naftaly --- Naftaly Stramer | Intergraph Electronics Internet: nstramer@dazixco.ingr.com | 6101 Lookout Road, Suite A Voice: (303)581-2370 FAX: (303)581-9972 | Boulder, CO 80301 ""Quality is everybody's job, and it's everybody's job to watch all that they can."" ",17 "AST Hot Shot 286 I recently acquired an AST Hot Shot 286 accellerator board for an 8088 sans documentation. Does anyone know what the dip switches on the back of the card do? Did it come with software? Any help or information about the card would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rob -- Robert M. Bultman | Speed Scientific School | University of Louisville | Internet: rmbult01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu | -- Robert M. Bultman | Speed Scientific School | University of Louisville | Internet: rmbult01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu | ",3 """ Only $17 / Month! "" Ahhh, remember the days of Yesterday? When we were only going to pay $17 / month? When only 1.2% of the population would pay extra taxes? Remember when a few of us predicted that it wasn't true? :) Remember the Inaugural? Dancing and Singing! Liberation at last! Well, figure *this* out: 5% VAT, estimated to raise $60-100 Billion per year ( on CNN ) Work it out, chum... $60,000,000,000 / 125,000,000 taxpayers = $480 / year But, you exclaim, "" I'll get FREE HEALTH CARE! "" But, I exclaim, "" No, you won't! "" This is only for that poor 37 million who have none. Not for YOU, chum. :) That comes LATER. Add in the estimates of the energy tax costs - $300-500 / year Plus, all that extra ""corporate and rich"" taxes that will trickle down, and what do you have? $1,000 / year, just like I said two months ago. And, the best part? You don't GET ANYTHING for it. Deficit is STILL projected to rise at same rate it's been rising at, by CLINTON'S OWN ESTIMATES. And this assumes that his plan WILL WORK! I mean, come on, it doesn't take a ROCKET SCIENTIST to see that in another 2 or 3 years, we're GETTING ANOTHER WHOPPING TAX INCREASE, because the deficit will STILL be GROWING FASTER THAN the ECONOMY. All Clinton is doing, is moving us to a HIGHER diving board. Face it. Clinton is Bush X 2. In four more years, our country will be completely bankrupt, and your children's future, so oft mentioned by Pal Bill, will be gone. And those of you still deluding yourselves will be faced with the guilt. Well, , gotta go. I want to be out of here by noon. Got an appointment at the lake. No tax there, yet. :) ",18 "Re: I have seen the lobby, and it is us In article <1993Apr21.163929.21149@eff.org> A. Charles Gross writes: >Certainly, with our way-cool Internet powers of >organization, we can act in the same way, if such action is appropriate. > >As long as we are kept informed of events, anyone on this bboard can make >a call to action. Hopefully, we're a strong enough community to act on >those calls. I realize this is a little optomistic, and I'm glad EFF is >working in the loop on these issues, but don't underestimate the >potential of the net for political action. > >Adam >* I speak for myself I second the motion. All in favor? BTW>> a few days ago, Charles Fee posted the names, addresses, and phone numbers (voice and fax) of almost all the 103rd congress's members. This info, along witha great number of cabinet men, etc... I captured it, as did many others, I am sure. We should single out a few of the people on the list, and bombard them with lobbying against the Clipper Chip, et al. -nate o---------------------------+======================================o | ""I hate quotations. | This message brought you by | | Tell me what you know."" | Nate Sammons, and the number 42. | | --Ralph Waldo Emerson | ns111310@longs.lance.colostate.edu | o---------------------------+======================================o ",11 "System 6.0.8L -- ____ Y_,_|[]| Ernest Stalnaker {|_|_|__| jcs@sage.cc.purdue.edu //oo--OO ...!pur-ee!sage.cc!jcs ",4 "Re: Honda clutch chatter In article <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com> jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes: > From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 22:01:32 GMT > Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA > Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!hpindda!jimb > Newsgroups: rec.autos > Lines: 12 > > anyone else experiencing a similar problem? > > This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch > is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there > is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up. Then the > clutch shifts smoothly. This chatter started when I moved to the San > Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment. The dealer stated > that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to > non-asbestos clutch material. No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch > surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates. > > Any comments out there? I have been having problems with a slightly different clutch problem on my 90 Prelude. See rec.autos.tech for more detail. My problem is a false engagement point below the actual one. It also seems affected by weather - it is most noticeable (and annoying) on damp or cold days. My dealer says he can't reproduce the problem - I think I'll just sell the car. Jeff Goss ",7 "ESPN2 - Tell us about it Geoff Filinuk (filinuk@staff.dccs.upenn.edu) wrote: : This comes indirectly from Al Morgani who works in the studio : for ESPN hockey. [Some text deleted] : ESPN is under contractual obligation to show baseball and COULD NOT : broadcast the OT of the hockey game. Next year, ESPN2 will be introduced so : baseball fans can watch baseball and hockey fans can watch hockey. I hadn't heard about this new ESPN2. When is this new network supposed to start? Sounds great to me! (as long as my cable co. offers it) -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Tom Huot huot@cray.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",10 "Re: 666 - MARK OF THE BEAST - NEED INFO On a slightly different note: There are two buildings in NY state with big 666 numbers on the roof :) One in Manhattan and one near Garden City. The Garden City one is a nice black unmarked building... -- ------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! . \ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . . \ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . . \/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . . ",19 "Re: Well blow me down. yuk,yuk,yuk In rec.motorcycles, rdc8@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Robert D Castro) writes: > When/How do you decide that it is too windy to ride? When the bugs are splatting on the side of my helmet instead of the faceshield. When semis are on their side in the downwind ditch. When I can't see the road for all the tumbleweeds rolling past. When the airborne sand/gravel is sandblasting my paint job. When all of the above is happening at once in the middle of Wonderful Wyldoming. Well, it *WAS* gusting to 87 mph. Cheers, VLJ --- ",8 "Experiences with DOS 6 (I have been having trouble posting this article from within tin for over a week. If you do get multiple copies, my apologies.) Here is a challenge to Microsoft or Microsort Supporters to defend the pathetic state of DOS 6 as an upgrade distribution -- it is a long story but would make good reading for those who are interested in knowing the potential pitfalls of ""upgrading"" to DOS 6 that I have been able to notice after only about a week of playing around with it. My envorinment ============== TI TravelMate 4000 WinSX (486SX/25) 4M Ram 120M Disk System BIOS version 1.03 05/21/92 by Texas Instruments CL-GD6420 VGA BIOS v 1.03 a1 by Cirrus Logic & Quadtel Advance Power Manager BATTERY.PRO v b6.00 by Texas Instruments Smart Drive Cache (WIN3.1/DOS6) Parameters: 2048 1024 a- b- Windows Benchmark WinBench(tm) v 3.11 02/11/93 by ZD Labs After ""updgrading"" to DOS 6, I could not understand why certain things became so slow, especially after I decided to try 'dblspace'. In the process of finding out why, I discovered some interesting things. Disk Performance with Double Space and Smart Drive ================================================== While most things did not appear to slow down most of the time, certain applications appeared to run very much slower. What was interesting is that commands like 'chkdsk' and 'defrag' were running far too slowly to consider them useful by any standards. I suspected Double Space (DS) and decided to measure its impact on my system using WinBench(tm). The Real Disk WINMARK of 20350 for the original system (as shipped from factory with DOS 5 and Windowws 3.1) became 10718 when ""upgraded"" to DOS 6 with DS. Thus there is an effective performance degradation of more than 50 percent which did not really surprise me because I knew that DS compression must cost something. Specifically, for short sequential reads up to 512 bytes, DS actually *improves* transfer rates by about 10% (because CPU being faster than I/O, more CPU cycles needed for DS is more than compensated by savings in I/O cycles). However, for all other cases, particularly large random writes, the transfers take up to three times as long. While the performance depends on the type of access (i.e random or sequential, small or large transfer units), on the average (based on WinBench's assumptions), the disk slows down to half its speed. The tests alone, done in 'real mode' (see WinBench) and with smartdrv on, do not say much except that it helps to put into those subjective statements like 'there is no noticable difference in performance' or even that 'it will speed up disk access when you have a fast CPU and slow disk I/O'. This explained why some applications ran markedly slower, but not why 'chkdsk' and 'defrag' (the latter especially) too so long. Double Space and Windows ======================== DBLSPACE will not run at all from within windows, not even if you wanted to only to get information, not modify anything, or for that matter even check on its usage -- try ""fasthelp dblspace"" in a dos box within windows and you will see what I mean from the error message you get. How narrow minded can a programer get, I wonder. Yes, this information can be obtained through the mstools.dd add-on to file manager, but this 'mstools' dll does not understand a compressed floppy! (Use the DOS 6 supplement utility to create a compressed floppy if you dont know how to.) DOS 6 Defragmenter is incompatible with TI APM ============================================== Defragmentation seemed to take too much time. Even so, I waited patiently till it finished and then ran it again to just to confirm. This confirmation 'dblspace /def' command for the 120M drive should take no more than 30 seconds (much faster on other defragmenters I have used) but it took 12 minutes. I discovered that if I moved the mouse, defragmentation checking ran faster (the % figure ticked more rapidly). It dawned on me that this had to do with TI's battery saver Advanced Power Management (APM) module which slows the clock down when it thinks that the CPU is idle, and it obviously thought DS defragmentation was an idle process! After disabling the TI's power saver, this operation took only 20 seconds. Microsft programmers think TI4000 and Gateway NOMAD users are idiots ==================================================================== In the readme.txt file, you can find the the following Running Microsoft Backup with TI4000 and Gateway NOMAD computers ---------------------------------------------------------------- To avoid a conflict between the Turbo feature and Microsoft Backup for Windows or MS-DOS, add a /L0 switch to the DEVICE command in your CONFIG.SYS that loads the BATTERY.PRO file. Or, before you run Microsoft Backup, type SETPOWER /L0 at the command prompt. If you checked TI's manual on the /L0 option, you will realise that it means ""disable all power saving features of your notebook"". Why would anyone want to run a driver disabled! As I have found out, not only does TI's power management interfere with Microsoft Backup as the readme.txt claims, but 'chkdsk' and 'dblspace' (and who knows what else) are crippled by the TI's power saver. It is obvious that there is not such thing as APM specifications. If there indeed is such a thing, then either Microsoft programmers or TI programmers dont know how to read these specifications. You dont have to guess as to who are the idiots. By the way, if you run the advance power management utility, POWER.EXE in DOS6, when you check the status, it says: Power Management Status ----------------------- Setting = ADV: MAX CPU: idle 60% of time. This figure of 60% seems to be the steady state value on my notebook when I am running nothing (windows with only program manager in iconised form). Does that mean that Windows takes up 40% of my CPU all for itself, and that I have at best only 60% left for useful work? Is such an overhead justified (whether or not Windows is an operating system or just another user interface)? (In DOS alone, it reports 99% idle time.) Looks like Windows is a good example of busy waiting type of package that I like my students to study as the classical 'negative' example of our times! Microsoft programmers do not know batch programming =================================================== I like to structure my startup script and thus have the equivalent of addpath statements like this: set PATH=C:\DOS ... set PATH=C:\ETC\BIN;%PATH%;C:\BIN ... set PATH=C:\ETC\WINDOWS;%PATH%;C:\WINDOWS ... set PATH=%PATH%;C:\BCC\BIN ... set PATH=%PATH%;%MOUSE% Even though the new dos was installed in the same directory as the old one (i.e. c:\dos), DOS 6 installation program modifes each and every path statement, and prepends C:\DOS to its value. As a result, my resultant path has so many DOS's. If the installation program wanted to remove the old DOS path, and add the new DOS path, clearly it has to only scan for the path statement containg the old DOS directory and replace it by the new DOS path. (Even this should only be done if the new DOS is installed in a directory different from the old one being 'upgraded'.) Instead, the Microsoft programmer (if you can call this person one) decided to meddle every path statement I had in the autoexec and prepend DOS to the value. I wonder if Microsoft is so desparate that it would not fire programmers who are incapable of the thought process. I started a thread on this when DOS 4 came up, and the Microsoft representative in Singapore called me about this poster. In fact he specifically said his US counterparts saw the poster and relayed the information to him as he did not have access to internet. Now that has not changed one bit. In fact, if you have a PATH statement with %PATH% already in it, is it not obvious that the this statement should not be touched for any reason? As another example of the inability of Microsoft programmers to understand batch programming -- I had the mouse driver invoked as: set MOUSE=C:\ETC\MOUSE set PATH=%PATH%;%MOUSE% loadhigh %MOUSE%\MOUSE.COM Guess what MEMMAKER did? It replaced the last statement with LH ... C:\ETC\MOUSE\MOUSE.COM Why is it so difficult just to replace loadhigh with LH and its parameters, without touching the rest of the line, I do not understand. DOS 6 Software Quality ====================== DOS 6 is the only operating system I know, in which, under normal usage, you end up creating a file that you cannot get rid of using of the commands that come with it. I am deliberately being cryptic about this: I challenge Microsoft to use all its programmers to catch this bug and publish it. If they dont within a week, I will post how you can create this ""ghost"" file. Surely if I can pick this bug without even looking for it after using a particular command only twice, I am sure two dozen Microsoft (idiot) programmers randomly banging on their keyboards over a week could find it -- that is what I was told how Microsoft ""tests the quality"" of their products. I think it is funny that Microsoft has found ways to ""test quality"" when it is accepted in the industry that quality cannot be tested, but can only be built into the product. No wonder they cannot provide any form of guarantees on their products, not even a decent list of bugs that will prevent scores of user from destroying their disks beyond repair! Also, if you run 'dblspace /def' often enough, repeatedly when the disk is fully defragmented, you may get errors, that was created by the defragmenters. I got my IO.SYS file size error and it got truncated when I did the chkdsk. This happend only after five successive defragmentation efforst after the first one supposedly did its job and with no new file creation since. Microsft, dont you dare reply to this poster on the network until you admit that your DS has bugs, and are willing to let us know what we should watch out for if we have already used DS. Jaya -- Dr. Jayasooriah CSE, CS&E, UNSW | Sign in a Paris hotel: P.O. Box 1, Kensington, NSW 2033 | Tel/Fax: +61 2 697-5683/313-7987 | ""A sports jacket may be worn to dinner, Internet: jayas@vast.unsw.edu.au | but not trousers."" Dr. Jayasooriah CSE, CS&E, UNSW | Sign in a Norwegian cocktail lounge: P.O. Box 1, Kensington, NSW 2033 | ""Ladies are requested Tel/Fax: +61 2 697-5683/313-7987 | not to have children Internet: jayas@vast.unsw.edu.au | in the bar."" ",2 "help: How to reduce the RPMs of a Boxer fan ? I need to reduce the speed of a Boxer fan by about 30-50%. I recall reading somewhere that the right capacitor in series will do it. If this isn't a case of brain fade, can someone suggest the cap value ? The specifics; It's a real Boxer Fan (tm). The label says 115 V, .2 amps. Al Dykes -------- adykes@jpr.com ",12 "Re: Changing oil by self. In article <1993Apr15.222254.6651@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grays on Walker) writes: >Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that >pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an >excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more >old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine. >The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into >your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to >the local oil recycle center. Yeah I suppose you could do that. But then you don't get the broken knuckles, the rust in your eyes, the oil bath, and the burns from the exhaust. I mean come on!... Steve ",7 "Government-Mandated Energy Conservation is Unnecessary and Wastful, Study Finds Government-Mandated Energy Conservation is Unnecessary and Wastful, Study Finds Washington, DC -- The energy tax and subsidized energy-efficiency measures supported by President Clinton and Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary are based on faulty assumptions, a new study from the Cato Institute points out. According to Jerry Taylor, Cato's director of natural resource studies, we are not running out of sources of energy. The world now has almost 10 times the proven oil reserves it had in 1950 and twice the reserves of 1970. Proven reserves of coal and natural gas have increased just as dramatically. When standards of living, population densities, and industrial structures are controlled for, the United States is no less energy efficient than Japan and more energy efficient than many of the Group of Seven nations. Energy independence provides little protection against domestic oil price shocks because the energy economy is global. Moreover, since the cost of oil represents only about 2 percent of gross national product, even large increases in the price of oil would have little impact on the overall U.S. economy. Market economies are, on average, 2.75 times more energy efficient per $1,000 of GNP than are centrally planned economies. Utilities' subsidized energy-efficiency measurs, known as demand-side management programs, encourage free riders, overuse of competing resource inputs, an competitive inequities. Furthermore, DSM programs do not reduce demand. Taylor concludes that government-mandated energy conservation imposes unnecessary costs on consumers and wastes, not conserves, energy; that subsidizing energy-conservation technologies will stymie, not advance, gains in energy conservation; and that central control over the lifeblood of modern society--energy--would transfer tremendous power to the state at the expense of the individual. ""Energy Conservation and Efficiency: The Case Against Coercion"" is no. 189 in the Policy Analysis series published by the Cato Institute, an independent public policy research organization in Washington, DC. Available from: Cato Institute 224 Second Street SE Washington, DC 20003 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cato Institute Founded in 1977, the Cato Institute is a public policy research foundation dedicated to broadening the parameters of policy debate to allow consideration of more options that are consistent with the traditional American principles of limited government, individual liberty, and peace. To that end, the Institute strives to achieve greater involvement of the intelligent, concerned lay public in questions of policy and the proper role of government. The Institute is named for Cato's Letters, libertarian pamphlets that were widely read in the American Colonies in the early 18th century and played a major role in laying the philosophical foundation of the American Revolution. Despite the achievement of the nation's Founders, today virtually no aspect of life is free from government encroachment. A pervasive intolerance for individual rights is shown by government's arbitrary intrusions into private economic transactions and its disregard for civil liberties. To counter that trend the Cato Institute undertakes an extensive publications program that addresses the complete spectrum of policy issues. Books, monographs, and shorter studies are commissioned to examine the federal budget, Social Security, regulation, military spending, international trade, and myriad other issues. Major policy conferences are held throughout the year, from which papers are published thrice yearly in the Cato Journal. In order to maintain its independence, the Cato Institute accepts no government funding. Contributions are received from foundations, corporations, and individuals, and other revenue is generated from the sale of publications. The Institute is a nonprofit, tax-exempt, educational foundation under Section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code. The Cato Institute 224 Second Street S.E. Washington, DC 20003 ",18 "Re: Radar detector DETECTORS? In article <1993Apr14.133007.11055@Princeton.EDU> chinatti@tan.Princeton.EDU (Stephen Anthony Chinatti) writes: > CT just recently overturned the ban on radar detectors, it is no > longer illegal to possess/use a radar detector in a vehicle. Before, > when it WAS illegal, it was illegal to operate a radar detector, or > have a radar detector installed in your vehicle. If a cop pulled you > over, and you either had your detector on (operating) or had your > detector off but plugged in to a power source (installed), the cop > could sieze your detector, and you could get it back something like 1 > year and about $100 later (not 100% sure about time/fines). The fine was $35 and they could not seize your detector. -- # Monty Solomon / PO Box 2486 / Framingham, MA 01701-0405 # monty%roscom@think.com ",12 "Re: Gritz/JBS/Liberty Lobby/LaRouche/Christic Insitute/Libertarian/... Note that Bo Gritz was on the Populist party ticket with David Duke (for veep) in 1988 until he found out that Duke was leading he ticket, when he withdrew his candidacy. So Gritz gave up his chance to be Vice President of the US just to aviod supporting Duke. ",16 "Computer Stuff for sale HP 9872B 4 pen plotter. $150 Fujistu M2451E 130 meg SCSI tape drive $150 Sony 40 meg SCSI disk drive (sticks once in a while) $50 Dead Maxtor XT4380E 338 meg ESDI drive $100 Dead Miniscribe 20 meg SCSI drive $10 Adaptac SCSI to ST-412 interface board $20 Daughter boards from tape drives ?QIC-02 - QIC-36? $20 Twist Terms (VT100 terms that the head twists on for 80x25 or 80x72) $150 14"" Analog RGB color monitor (15.7 Khz works nice with amiga's) $100 Spool with 90+ feet of 50 conductor ribbon cable $75 All prices are or best offer. Prices do not include UPS shipping. All items working except those stated as Dead. --Matthew ",6 "Re: Kawi Zephyr? (was Re: Vision vs GpZ 550) In article <1993Apr4.135829.28141@pro-haven.cts.com>, shadow@pro-haven.cts.com writes: |>In <1993Apr3.094509.11448@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> |>asphaug@lpl.arizona.edu (Erik Asphaug x2773) writes: |> |>% By the way, the short-lived Zephyr is essentially a GpZ 550, |> |>Why was the ""Zephyr"" discontinued? I heard something about a problem with |>the name, but I never did hear anything certain... Ford had an anemic mid-sized car by that name back in the last decade. I rented one once. That car would ruin the name ""Zephyr"" for any other use. Rod --- Roderick Sprattling | No job too great, no time too small sprattli@azores.crd.ge.com | With feet to fire and back to wall. ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian M In <1qksc2$2mr@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com writes: > In article <1qkoel$5fr@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: > |> > |> Good question, my point was that a world with truth is better than a world > |> with falsehood. A world in which it were possible to say ""yes, I am > |> holding a Jew"" (the truth) and you, me, the Jew, and the SS guy all sit > |> down to crack open a bottle of whiskey is better than the grim alternatives > |> you present. Obviously, this is not possible, and the best alternative seems > |> to be to lie. That's because other values are involved, such as life. > |> Now that IS just my opinion - don't confuse the claim 'objective morality > |> exists' with the claim 'I have a lock on morals'. > > I think that at this point it would actually be quite easy to > confuse objective morality with relative morality. > > jon. Actually, jon, that is quite true. Christian people have caused ""objective morality"" to look very ""relative."" After all, that was the point of the original question in this thread, i.e. can we toss out Christianity because it is so obviously inconsistent with its own principles? If you will bear with me, I will attempt to explain this apparent inconsistency from at least one Christian's viewpoint: If God exists and is the creator of mankind as the Bible claims, then He has a pretty well-defined concept of what makes people tick physically, emotionally, etc. GOD has an ""objective"" morality for us. That is to say, He has no trouble understanding what is good for (or detrimental to) the creature He created. Galatians 2:10-- For we [mankind] are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works [a morality], which God prepared beforehand [a well-defined design], that we might walk in them. However, contrary to what many people assume (including the Pharasees of the Bible,) God's morality cannot be completely codified in a list of rules and regulations. To some extent, every activity of a person's life creates a new situation to which morality must be applied. There never could be enough volumes to codify God's ""objective"" morality for us. Throughout history, mankind has tried to reduce morality to a list of rules (objectivity, if you please.) In the Old Testament, we have both principles and specific rules. By the time of Jesus, most of the principles were obscured by the emphasis men had placed on the rules. Volumes of additional rules had been made to try to codify the application of the principles. We [mankind] weren't comfortable with the ""subjectivity"" of principles. For reference see Matthew 5 where Jesus explains the difference between the Law and the principles of the Law. For example, in verses 21-22: ""You have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not commit murder'...and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the court..."" The ""objective morality"" of God gets blurred by our inept interpretation of it. We [Christians] have made our biggest errors when we have allowed any one person or group of people decide EXACTLY what God intended for us. If we [Christians] would stay committed to seeking God's will instead of trying to prove we already had it all figured out, we might do a better job of allowing others to find God's ""objective morality"" for themselves. If Jesus is who he said he was/is (and that's the fundamental question,) then HE IS ""objective morality."" John Nunnally ",19 "Re: Albert Sabin In article <1quim9INNem8@ctron-news.ctron.com>, king@ctron.com (John E. King) writes: ... |> I've seen this claim about the ""Josephus insert"" flying around the |> net too often to continue to ignore it. Perhaps it's true. Was |> there only one Josephus manuscipt? If there were, say, 100 copies, |> the forger would have to put his insert into all of them. ... Not necessarily. It is much the same problem as the Eve hypothesis. If all, or most, of the copies that were available when printing became common were decended from the same copy, a change in that copy would propagate to all modern copies, even if there were other copies in existence at the time of the change. Very few libraries would have duplicates of a non-religious book, so there would be few opportunities for anyone to notice that there were variations. Even if someone did notice, they would be more likely to copy the variation that conformed to their expectations and ignore the others. -- Patricia Shanahan pats@cray.com phone: (619) 625-3708 ",19 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? Dan Sorenson (viking@iastate.edu) writes: #In mcclary@netcom.com (Michael McClary) #writes: # Just thought I'd clear up a few of the murky areas... # #>Actually, after surviving being driven out of Nauvoo, and later Carthage, #>the Mormons DID fortify Utah. They still arm themselves to ""defend the #>faith"", and stockpile food as well. They have been involved in quite a #>lot of illegal activity - including multiple (and often underage) wives #>for the leaders - a practice still in vogue with some splinters of their #>sect. The parallels between Koresh and Joseph Smith are striking. # ^^^^^^^^^^^^ By ""they,"" you mean the leaders of the lds church? I grant you that when Joseph Smith was still alive, plenty of ""accusations"" were filed, most of which had little bearing with reality, as evidenced by various verdicts. I have studied lds history for 15 years now, and I have yet to see prove that the lds leadership was involved, in quote: ""illegal activities."" Plural marriage, yes, but your charge of ""underage"" wives sounds like it could have originated from a tabloid, and discredits the high moral standards which characterized these leaders and families, unlike, as it appears, those of David Koresh. # Joseph Smith started the sect. After he and his brother Hyram #were murdered in a Nauvoo, Il. jail cell, church membership split over #who to follow. Initially, Smith was considered a prophet (just like #Mohammed, a rather interesting parallel considering Muslims consider #Christ to be a prophet the same as Jews, I'm led to understand. Make #no mistake, this was no messiah we're talking about in Smith). The And neither did he claim he was. As the church reflects the moral aptitude of its leaders (and especially those of Joseph Smith), I have nothing but the highest respect for this inspired man, whose only ""crime"" was that he refused to deny that he had seen a vision... Many have tried to explain the ""Smith phenomenon"" away, but the bold presence of an 8.5 million member strong church stands as a witness that Joseph Smith's testimony had enough resilience and power to carry on the message. #thought at the time was that the gift of prophecy was to be handed #down father to son. After Joseph Smith died, his son was only #entering his teens. Brigham Young and a few others claimed to have #been bequeathed the gift and leadership prior to his death. The #Council of Twelve, the Church governing body, wasn't of much help #here, and this basic conflict is still a wedge between the sects. #Brigham Young took his followers to Salt Lake. The rest waited #for Smith Jr. to grow up enough to assume leadership. The other #claimants to the leadership were soon ignored, like Mike Dukakis. ;-) ""The rest"" were apostates and excommunicated members of the Church, while the great majority of the membership, the Twelve, and the various auxiliary organizations, chose to accept Brigham Young as the new prophet and leader of the Church. If you knew your lds scriptures and doctrine, you would have known that Brigham Young was the FIRST in line to fill the prophet Joseph Smith's vacancy: he was the senior apostle in the Quorum, and various comments made by Joseph indicated that it was Brigham who would lead the latter-day exodus to the West. Other rightful ""heirs"" were either dead (Hyrum Smith) or excommunicated (Oliver Cowdery), and while persecutions abounded and intensified, Joseph Smith had already given orders to look for a new place, an empty land beyond the boundaries of the United States (at that time). This ""Rekhabite"" principle (pseudographia) was well understood and antipated by the great majority of lds faithful, and was not questioned by them. Granted, a couple of ""do-it-yourselfers"" stayed behind, unwilling to sacrifice and to undertake the perilous journey to the unknown, but this also was necessary to separate the tares from the wheat. The church benefitted from this purification process: they became even more unified and willing to carry out their mission to the world. # Both sects practiced the ""1-year food stockpile"" doctrine, #and this being frontier and farming country most carried or at #least owned weapons. There is little evidence that they were a #militaristic sect, given that they tended to move on rather than #face large-scale opposition. Brigham Young, having suffered a #great deal getting to Salt Lake, seems to have been quite #justified in making military training a good thing. Remember, #this was far beyond where even the US Army went, and these people #had nobody to turn to save themselves. # # Just a little context to put this all in perspective. BTW, since when is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (one of the largest denominations in the country) a ""sect""??? It didn't ""splinter"" from any other religion, as did say, the Southern Baptists or Methodists. #>So what did the Mormons get? It seems that J. Edgar Hoover was very #>impressed with the way they kept secrets. (They're pledged to defend #>secrets with their lives and atone for sin with blood. Many actually #>do - even to the point of suicide.) What a balloney. Suicide is sinful and against the law of God. I am not comfortable with this alleged ""cosiness"" with Mammon: I assure you that *many* among us reject this attitude categorically. Period. Our ONLY true allegiance is to our God and to the leaders which He has appointed to represent Him. In any regard, to read this TRASH (about suicide and ""atone for sins with blood"") is yet another insulting misrepresentation of what my church believes in and stands for... # # The RLDS, the Reorganized LDS, are friendly rivals of the LDS #and delight in telling stories about them, which generates quick retorts #from the LDS members and everybody has a grand time. At no time have #I ever even heard this hinted at. I'm taking it with a salt block. Make it a really big salt mountain with a glacier on top. #> So he hired virtually no one but #>Mormons, until the FBI was almost exclusively staffed by members of the #>Church of Later Day Saints. Though J. Edgar is finally gone, the FBI #>personnel (especially the field agents) are still heavily Mormon. #>I have often wondered how this might affect the FBI's treatment #>of religious organizations a Mormon would consider heretical. Preposterous. Even if this were true (reliable data, please), I am convinced that those officers would perform to the highest codes of honor and conduct (that's why they were selected for in the first place, remember?). Besides, one of our Articles of Faith STRONGLY states the principle of freedom of religion, and that all people are free to worship ""*how*, *where*, or *what* they may."" # If it's true, there would be little affect. LDS and RLDS #philosophy is that all other religions have strayed from the true #Church as set down by Jesus, but that God will judge each on his #own merits. In addition, the RLDS also contend (and the LDS may #as well) that ignorance of the True Way (tm) is an excuse. You #can only be condemned if you had been tought the way and rejected #it. In short, LDS and RLDS suffer everybody from Lutherans to #Buddhists, secure in the knowledge that though they are wrong they #will not be penalized for ignorance. It is more likely that Hoover #liked them because of their rather strict upbringings which forbade #alcohol, tobacco, hot drink (like coffee or tea), and the like. #These people are the ""salt of the Earth"" and as such are more #easily made to follow orders and have few vices to be used against them. A good explanation, I can accept that. You are right that lds people are sometimes a little too cosy with Mammon's ""orders"" (the late president Kimball, for example, was an exception with his strong opposition of the selection of the MX ""Peace Keeper"" missile maze in Utah). # That's my somewhat educated guess, anyway. Both sects have #splinter groups that don't mirror the masses, but these are small #and rare, and hardly worth noting their common ancestry. # # None of this has any relevance to guns, though. When a #man's religion is used to deny him the right of self-protection with #the weapons suitable for the job, he'll find an ally in me. # #< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > #< ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > #< USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > #< unusual people. And flame them. > Casper C. Knies isscck@byuvm.bitnet Brigham Young University isscck@vm.byu.edu UCS Computer Facilities ",19 "RE: Win NT - what is it??? In a previous article, alanchem@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Alan Scott Olson) wrote: >Two-part question: > >1) What is Windows NT - a 'real' windows OS? > >2) This past weekend, a local 'hacker' radio show metioned a new product > from Microsoft called 'Chicago' if I recall. Anyone know what this is? > >That is it - > >Thanks a heap. > >- Alan Windows NT is a giant Windows Operating System. Unline Win3.1, it does not run on top of DOS. It is its own OS, with (Billy Gates assures us) true multi-tasking/multithreading, meets DOD security specs, will run win3.1 programs as well as DOS programs, has multi-processor support, and is primarily a Server program. It's overhead is too high for it to be economical for most users. Speaking of overhead, it requires at least a 386 with 16 megs of RAM. It iwll run with 12, but that's like running OS/2 2.0 with 4 megs. And that's just to run it. Also, I have heard that the system files take up 30-50 Megs, and it is recommended that your drive be a half gig! The SKD is distributed on CD-ROM. Chicogo is what I want to use. It is, like NT, a true OS with thrue multitasking and multithreading, but has much smaller hardware requirements, and does not meet DOD security specs (but that's okay since it will probably be more of a client OS). there are a few otehr differences, but those are the main ones. There was an article about Chicogo in PC Week last August. The Chicogo and NT development groups at Micro$oft are in intense competition, so it is said. However, I think a different relationship will arise: NT will be the server (*N*etowrk *T*echonology), Chicogo will be the client machine. It is entirely possible for different OS's to work together, partly because Chicogo is just a small NT (think of it that way, anyway). (Novell Netware creates an OS on the server that is truly not DOS, so don't scorn the concept.) Anyway, don't expect it soon. Windows 4 and DOS 7 are supposed to be released next year (read: see it in 95), so I expect that Chicogo won't be out til '96. With luck, I'll be proven wrong! =) Rob |------------------------------------------------------------| \ rmohns@vax.clarku.edu / _________\ /________ \ Rob Mohns / ================================================== Annoy Rush Limbaugh. Think for yourself. ================================================== ",2 "Re: Hijaak Haston, Donald Wayne (haston@utkvx.utk.edu) wrote: : Currently, I use a shareware program called Graphics Workshop. : What kinds of things will Hijaak do that these shareware programs : will not do? I also use Graphic Workshop and the only differences that I know of are that Hijaak has screen capture capabilities and acn convert to/from a couple of more file formats (don't know specifically which one). In the April 13 issue of PC Magazine they test the twelve best selling image capture/convert utilities, including Hijaak. TMC. (tmc@spartan.ac.brocku.ca) ",1 "Can Radio Freq. Be Used To Measure Distance? I'm wondering if it's possible to use radio waves to measure the distance between a transmitter(s) and receiver? Seems to me that you should be able to measure the signal strength and determine distance. This would be for short distances (2000 ft), and I would need to have accuracy of 6 inches, or so. How about measuring vertical distance as well, any chance - or am I getting ridiculous? What frequencies would be best for this? Or does matter? Sorry if I'm ""mucking up"" the network with one of those questions best answered by Bill Willis via US Mail... and I apologize for not being ""tuned-in"" to electronics. :-) R.G. Carpenter, Ph.D., P.E. (sorry... only an ME) ",12 "Re: Radar Jammers And Stealth Cars Eric H. Taylor writes > ... If you are determined > to go faster, get an airplane. They dont have speed limits. Just don't make a habit of buzzing your local airport at >200 knots (250 knots if you're flying a jet). :-) ",12 "Re: Rosicrucian Order(s) ?! alamut@netcom.com (Max Delysid (y!)) writes: > In article <1qppef$i5b@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony > > > > Name just three *really* competing Rosicrucian Orders. I have > >probably spent more time than you doing the same. > > > > None of them are spin-offs from O.T.O. The opposite may be the > >case. > > Can we assume from this statement that you are >unequivocally< saying that > AMORC is not a spin off of OTO? .. and that in fact, OTO may well be a spin > off of AMORC?? > i would be quite interested in hearing what evidence you have to support this > claim. > > Well, there is a fair amount of evidence floating around that indicates that OTO has been around since at least the late 1800s, long before Crowley ever heard of it, how long has AMORC been around? (yes, I know that they claim to have existed as an organization clear into prehistory, but I doubt that they have any organizational paperwork as a non-profit that can be carbon-dated to 20,000 BC) A.Lizard ------------------------------------------------------------------- A.Lizard Internet Addresses: alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM (preferred) PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard (bang path for above) alizard@gentoo.com (backup) PGP2.2 public key available on request ",19 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1r39kh$itp@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: >Specifically, I'd like to know what relativism concludes when two >people grotesquely disagree. Is it: > >(a) Both are right > >(b) One of them is wrong, and sometimes (though perhaps rarely) we have a > pretty good idea who it is > >(c) One of them is wrong, but we never have any information as to who, so > we make our best guess if we really must make a decision. > >(d) The idea of a ""right"" moral judgement is meaningless (implying that > whether peace is better than war, e.g., is a meaningless question, > and need not be discussed for it has no correct answer) > >(e) Something else. A short, positive assertion would be nice. (e). (d) is close but misses the point that there is a third party, with their own subjective viewpoint, asked to make a decision. Peace is not ""better"" than war, unless we view the situation subjectively as humans. Of course, we *are* humans, and so *do* view situations from our own perspective, so it is meaningful for us to discuss questions of war and peace. -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. ",19 "Re: Mogilny must be benched. In article wong@fraser.sfu.ca (Sam S. Wong) writes: >> About 4 or 5 weeks ago I read in the Toronto Sun a quote from Alex; it >> went something like [sarcastically]: >> ""Yep, Patty's the man. He's responsible for the team's success...I'm a >> nobody around here."" >How can you assume it was a sarcastic remark? >For someone whose first language is not English, I would interpret >that comment to mean that he believes Pat is the MVP on the team and that >he is just one of the other normal players. Quite modest I might say. Well, I don't recall assuming anything, except perhaps that the columnist who reported the incident was telling the truth i.e. the sarcastic impression came from _him_ (Steve Simmons?). Besides, to my knowledge Alex has a pretty fair grasp of the English language...and his recent comment after the Detroit game would indicate that this remark _is_ what I think it to be. Very low. dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca ",10 "Re: Need Senate Bill numbers and House Resolution numbers Try the firearms archive. Larry Cipriani's instructions follow. By the way, thanks for the archive Larry.. This year is the 103rd congress directory. ---------------------------- From watson!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.r reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!mimsy!cbvox1. .att.com!lvc Thu Apr 8 19:41:01 1993 Article: 40039 of talk.politics.guns Path: watson!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.r reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!darwin.sura.net!dtix.dt.navy.mil!mimsy!cbvox1. .att.com!lvc From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns Subject: Information about the anonymous ftp RKBA archive Message-ID: <1993Apr8.182924.7274@cbnews.cb.att.com> Date: 8 Apr 93 22:50:09 GMT Sender: magnum@mimsy.umd.edu Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc. Lines: 1795 This is the INDEX file for the anonymous ftp RKBA archive. The archive site has been moved and is now at: godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu in the directory /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba This archive is accessible only via anonymous ftp; instructions for anonymous ftp are at the end of this file. An email server is available at another site, and as a result is not completely in sync with this archive. To get the index for the rkba email-server send: get rkba index as the body of a message to listserv@mainstream.com For help send: help If you have any additions or suggestions for improvement to the RKBA archive please let me know. -- Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or l.v.cipriani@att.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: rkba82 Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Ninety-seventh Congress, Second Session, February, 1982 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HCR11 House Concurrent Resolution 11 by Mr. Crane, January 3, 1991 Expressing the sense of the Congress with respect to the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms in defense of life or liberty and in pursuit of all other legitimate endeavors. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HJR438 House Joint Resolution 438 by Mr. Major Owens, March 11, 1992 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States repealing the Second Amendment to the Constitution; includes comments by Owens entered into the Congressional Record. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR1133 House Bill 1133 by Mr. Goodling, February 27, 1991 To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit transfer of firearm to, or possession of a firearm by, a person convicted of a drug crime, and to provide enhanced penalties for possession of a firearm during a drug crime. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR1354 House Bill 1354 by Mr. Scheuer, March 7, 1991 To end the use of steel jaw leghold traps on animals in the United States. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR1412 House Bill 1412 by Mr. Staggers, March 13, 1991 To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide for the establishment of a national hotline which a Federal Firearms licensee may contact to learn if receipt of a handgun by a prospective transferee is prohibited, and to require such a licensee to contact the hotline before the transfer of a handgun to a nonlicensee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR1559 House Bill 1559 by Mr. Gibbons, March 21, 1991 To prohibit the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, large capacity ammunition feeding devices, and certain accessories. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR1770 House Bill 1770 by Mr. Smith of Florida, April 15, 1991 To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit certain handguns which are unsuitable for lawful sporting purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR19 House Bill 19 by Mr. Hughes January 3, 1991 To prohibit the possession, transfer, and certain exports of restricted weapons, the manufacture of firearms capable of accepting a silencer or bayonet without alteration, and the possession and transfer of large capacity ammunition feeding devices, and for other purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR282 House Bill 282 by Mrs. Collins, January 3, 1991 To provide for the mandatory registration of handguns. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR2922 House Bill 2922 by Mr. Cardin, July 17, 1991 To amend the Public Health Service Act to establish an entitlement of States and certain political subdivisions of States to receive grants for the abatement of health hazards associated with lead-based paint, and to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to impose an excise tax and establish a trust fund to satisfy the Federal obligations arising from such entitlement. [This bill would impose upto a $0.75/pound tax on all new lead, and $0.37/pound tax on recycled lead.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR318 House Bill 318 by Mr. Dornan, January 3, 1991 To amend the Animal Welfare Act to prohibit dog racing and dog training involving the use of live animals as visual lure and to make such Act applicable to facilities that are used for dog racing or dog race training. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR3371 House Bill 3371 ""The Violent Crime Prevention Act of 1991"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR371 House Bill 371 by Mr. Marlenee, January 3, 1991 To protect persons engaged in a lawful hunt within a national forest; establishing an administrative civil remedy against individuals or groups intentionally obstructing, impeding, or interfering with the conduct of a lawful hunt; and for other purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/101st/HR4079 House Bill 4079 by Mr. Gingrich, February 22, 1990 To provide swift and certain punishment for criminals in order to deter violent crime and rid America of illegal drug use. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR436 House Bill 436 by Mr. Weiss, January 3, 1991 To prohibit the manufacture, transfer, or importation of .25 caliber and .32 caliber ammunition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR465 House Bill 465 by Mr. Rangel, January 7, 1991 To prohibit certain exports of fully automatic or semiautomatic assault weapons. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR4897 House Bill 4897 by Mr. Cunningham, April 9, 1992 To amend title I of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 to deny grant funds to States unless law enforcement officers are permitted to carry concealed firearms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR5633 House Bill 5633 by Mr. Schumer, July 21, 1992 To amend title 18, United States Code, to expand the scope of the multiple firearms sales reporting requirement, and to require that persons comply with State and local firearms licensing laws before receiving a Federal license to deal in firearms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR5807 House Bill 5807 by Mr. Schumer, August 10, 1992 To impose criminal penalties upon the failure of a Federal firearms licensee to report to appropriate authorities the loss or theft of a firearm from the inventory or collection of the licensee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR7 House Bill 7 by Mr. Feighan To require a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun; also known as ""The Brady Bill"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/HR750 House Bill 750 by Mr. Russo, January 30, 1991 To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 to provide that the excise tax on handguns will be transferred to a trust fund to be used for purposes of providing compensation to victims of crime, and for other purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S214 Senate Bill 214 by Mr. Hatch, January 15, 1991 To provide procedures for calling Federal constitutional conventions under article V for the purpose of proposing amendments to the United States Constitution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S2304 Senate Bill 2304 by Mr. Lautenberg, March 3, 1992 To amend title 18, United States Code, to permanently prohibit the possession of firearms by persons who have been convicted of a violent felony, and for other purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S257 Senate Bill 257 To require a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S2813 Senate Bill 2813 by Mr. Gore, June 4, 1992 To establish in the Government Printing Office an electronic gateway to provide public access to a wide range of Federal databases containing public information stored electronically. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S2913 Senate Bill 2913 by Mr. Chafee, June 30 1992 To prohibit the manufacture, importation, exportation, sale, purchase, transfer, receipt, possession, or transportation of handguns and ammunition, with certain exceptions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S3282 Senate Bill 3282 by Mr. Mitchell, September 28 1992 To amend title 18, United States Code, to require a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/101st/S386 Senate Bill 386 by Mr. Metzenbaum, February 8, 1989 To control the sale and use of assault weapons. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S51 Senate Bill 51 by Mr. Moynihan, January 14, 1991 To prohibit the manufacture, transfer, or importation of .25 caliber and .32 caliber and 9 millimeter ammunition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S634 Senate Bill 634 by Mr. Symms, March 13, 1991 To amend chapter 44, title 18, United States Code, to provide clarification of limitations on controls of firearms, and to prohibit the use of Federal funds to political subdivisions which implement certain gun control ordi- nances. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/101st/S747 Senate Bill 747 by Mr. DeConcini, To amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, regarding assault weapons. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S789 Senate Bill 789, by Mr. Moynihan, April 9, 1991 To prohibit the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, large capacity ammunition feeding devices, and certain accessories. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S892 Senate Bill 892, By Mr. Metzenbaum, April 23, 1991 To amend title 15, United States Code, to authorize the Consumer Product Safety Commission to regulate the risk of injury associated with firearms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/102nd/S918 Senate Bill 918, by Mr. Packwood, April 24, 1991 The amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to exempt small manufacturers, producers, and importers from the firearms excise tax. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/HCR3 House Concurrent Resolution 3, by Mr. Crane, January 5, 1993 Expressing the sense of the Congress with respect to the right of all Americans to keep and bear arms in defense of life or liberty and in the pursuit of all other legitimate endeavors. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/HJR81 House Joint Resolution, by Mr. Owens, January 27, 1993 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States repealing the Second Amendment to the Constitution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/HR277 House Bill 277, by Mr. Mazolli, January 5, 1993 To amend title 18, United States Code, to require a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/HR544 House Bill 544, by Mr. Torricelli, January 21, 1993 To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the transfer of 2 or more handguns to an individual in any 30-day period. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/HR661 House Bill 661, by Mrs. Collins, January 27, 1993 To provide for the manufacturer, importer, or dealer of a handgun or an assault weapon to be held strictly liable for damages that result from the use of the handgun or assault weapon. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/HR737 House Bill 737, by Mr. REYNOLDS, February 2, 1993 To provide for the manufacturer or importer of a handgun or an assault weapon to be held strictly liable for damages that result from the use of the handgun or assault weapon, and to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to increase the excise tax on firearms and use a portion of the revenues from such tax to assist hospitals in urban areas to provide medical care to gunshot victims who are not covered under any health plan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/HR1025 House Bill 1025, by Mr. Schumer, February 22, 1993 To provide for a waiting period before the purchase of a hadgun, and for the establishment of a national instant criminal background check system to be contacted by firearms dealers before the transfer of any firearm. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/S108 Senate Bill 108, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993 To prohibit the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, large capacity ammunition feeding devices, and certain accessories. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/S109 Senate Bill 109, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993 To amend section 923 of title 18, United States Code, to require the keeping of records with respect to dispositions of ammunition, and to require a study of the use and possible regulation of sales of ammunition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/S178 Senate Bill 178, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993 To amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the manufacture, transfer, or importation of .25 caliber and .32 caliber and 9 millimeter ammunition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/S179 Senate Bill 179, by Mr. Moynihan, January 21, 1993 To tax 9 millimeter, .25 caliber, and .32 caliber bullets. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/S376 Senate Bill 376, by Mr. Lautenberg, February 16, 1993 To prohibit the transfer of 2 or more handguns to an individual in any 30-day period. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress/103rd/S414 Senate Bill 414, by Mr. Metzenbaum, February 24, 1993 To amend title 18, United States Code, to require a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gun-free-zones Text of the GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT OF 1990 from PUBLIC LAW 101-647 NOV. 29, 1990 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: aclu A collection of articles on the ACLU's position on gun control. Included is ACLU Policy Statement #47 which gives the ACLU interpretation of the Second Amendment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: dcm-info A collection of articles explaining the Civilian Marksmanship Program. In other words, ""Why does the United States Department of Defense sell battle rifles to civilians ? "" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: dial911 ""Dial 911 and Die!"" By Aaron Zelman and Jay Simkin of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: fija-info The Fully Informed Jury Amendment, and what it means to gun owners and the right to keep and bear arms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: whitemanslaw White Man's Law by William R. Tonso, from the December 1985 Reason magazine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: jefferson The First Inaugural Address of Thomas Jefferson, 2nd president of the United States. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: jewishistory Jewish History Rufutes Gun Control Activists, by Elliot Rothenberg from the February 1988 *American Rifleman*. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: law-abiding The Law-Abiding Gun Owner as Domestic and Acquaintance Murderer from ""Guns, Murders, and the Constitution: A Realistic Assessment of Gun Control,"" by Don B. Kates, February, 1990, pp.45-49. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: second-ideology ""The Second Amendment and the Ideology of Self-Protection"" by Don B. Kates, Jr. Reprinted from CONSTITUTIONAL COMMENTARY, Vol. 9. No. 1. Winter 1992, (c) 1992 by Constitutional Commentary, Kates puts the Second Amendment and philosophies of self-protection into a historical perspective ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: new-understa Toward a New Understanding of the Second Amendment, by David T. Hardy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: to-bear-arms ""To Bear Arms for Self Defense: Our Second Amendment Heritage"" by Stephen P. Halbrook. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: no-treason No Treason, The Constitution of No Authority by Lysander Spooner ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: resistance Excerpts from the study ""Crime Control Through the Use of Armed Force"", by Associate Professor Dr. Gary Kleck, Florida State University School of Criminology, published in the February 1988 issue of SOCIAL PROBLEMS. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: waitper-qna Waiting Period -- Questions and Answers by Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI) and Citizens for Safe Government (CSG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: warsaw ""The Warsaw Ghetto; 10 Handguns Against Tyranny"", by Dr. David I Caplan from February, 1988 American Rifleman. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: wethepeople Supreme Court interpretations of the Second Amendment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: sc-ftp How to retreive Supreme Court decisions via anonymous ftp. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: alternative-policy ALTERNATIVE POLICY FUTURES by Franklin E. Zimring from THE ANNALS OF THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF POLITICAL AND SOCIAL SCIENCE. Volume 455, May 1981; published by The American Academy of Political and Social Science; 1981. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: embarassing.2nd.amendment The Embarassing Second Amendment by Sanford Levinson, Yale Law Journal Volume 99, pp 637-659 (1989) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nra800 Phone numbers for the NRA, many are toll-free 800 numbers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nradrugs A collection of articles on the NRA's position on the War on Drugs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: fl-aw-part1 Florida A.W. Commission - Exec Summary Part 1, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: fl-aw-part2 Florida A.W. Commission - Exec Summary Part 2, STOCKTON -- THE FACTS by Martin L. Fackler, MD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: iwba Information about the International Wound Ballistics Association, Martin Fackler, president ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gunshyjudges Gun-Shy Judges by Jacob Sullum, from the May 1991 issue of Reason Magazine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: heatofmoment In the Heat of the Moment, By James D. Wright ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: racist-soil Article ""Gun Control Sprouts from Racist Soil."" by Roy Innis, from the Wall Street Journal 11/21/91 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: core-policy ""Bearing Arms for Self-Defense -- A Human and Civil Right"" by Roy Innis, National Chairman, Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: righttobear The Right to Bear Arms By Sanford Levinson from the Daily News, Ft Walton Beach, FL. (1991) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: rock-island United States of America v. Rock Island Armory, US District Court for the Central District of IL; the court ruled that making a post '86 machine gun is not illegal -- believe it or not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: dalton United States of America v. John William Dalton, US Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit, 91-1149; the court ruled that owning or transferring a post '86 machine gun is not punishable under the NFA -- believe it or not. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: waitdanger Why Gun Waiting Periods Threaten Public Safety By David B. Kopel, March 25, 1991 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: aw-qna Assault Weapon Questions & Answers by Handgun Control, Inc. and Citizens for Safe Government (CSG) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: ccw-survey A state by state survey of Carrying Concealed Weapons laws. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: us-vs-miller United States vs. Miller et al., Appeal from the District Court of the United States for the Western District of Arkansas. Argued March 30, 1939 -- Decided May 15, 1939 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: presser The history of Presser v Illinois is a fascinating exercise of how politically based decisions on our Constitutional rights have come back to haunt us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: cia-ncbh A column by Neal Knox presenting evidence that former CIA agent Edwin O. Welles played a major role in founding HCI and NCBH. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: conphone A list of voice and fax phone number for representatives and senators. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: billofrights The first 10 articles of amendment to the United States Constitution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: constitution The Constitution of the United States of America ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: decl-of-indp The Declaration of Independence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: dont-wait ""Criminals Don't Wait -- Why Should You ?"" from the NRA. Exposes the fraudulent arguments made for waiting periods. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: external Positive Externalities of Gun Ownership, by John Kell, from ""The Freeman: Ideas on Liberty, October 1991 "" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: english-hist Firearms Legislation in Great Britain, by Jan A. Stevenson ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: simkin ""Control Criminals, Not Guns"" by Jay Edward Simkin found in the March, 25 1991 [or '92?] Wall Street Journal: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: unabridged The Unabridged Second Amendment, by J. Neil Schulman An interview with Roy Copperud, retired professor of journalism at USC and author of ""American Usage and Style: The Consensus"". Copperud offers his professional opinion on the meaning of the Second Amendment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: uzitruth A letter from J. Harper Wilson, Director FBI Uniform Crime Reporting Program to Paul H. Blackman, Research Coordinator of the NRA stating that only one police officer, of Puerto Rico, was shot and killed with a semi-automatic 9mm Model A Uzi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: maketheirday ""How to Make Their Day"" by Don B. Kates Jr. and Patricia Terrell Harris in the National Review, October 21, 1991 Kates and Harris debunk several myths about firearms, criminals, and violence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: two-myths Two myths of gun control from ""Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America"" by Gary Kleck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: aw-not-problem ""Assault Weapons Aren't the Problem"", by Gary Kleck, published in The New York Times Tuesday, September 1, 1992 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: oregon-study 1990 Oregon Study of Retail Firearm Sales and CHL Licensing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: children Fighting for Children's Hearts and Minds by Robert Pew, American Rifleman - April 1992 Discusses how HCI and it's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence have set out to use public schools as forums for their anti-gun propaganda. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gunssputter ""Guns and Sputter"" by James D. Wright, from July 1989 issue of REASON. Wright exposes the flaws in the New England Journal of Medicine study comparing the homicide rates of Seattle and Vancouver. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nejm-info A collection of articles and information on the New England Journal of Medicine Vancouver/Seattle handgun crime comparison study. See also the file gunssputter, authored by James Wright. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: dcstudy.1 The New England Journal of Medicine. 1991 Dec 5. 325 (23). pp 1647-1650. Editorials: Firearms And The Killing Threshold. Kassirer-Jerome-P. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: dcstudy.2 The New England Journal of Medicine. 1991 Dec 5. 325 (23). pp 1615-1620. Special Article: Effects Of Restrictive Licensing Of Handguns On Homicide And Suicide In The District Of Columbia. Loftin-Colin. McDowall-David. Wiersema-Brian. Cottey-Talbert-J. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nejm-editorial The New England Journal of Medicine. 1988 Nov 10. 319 (19). pp 1283-1285. Editorial: Firearm Injuries: A Call For Science. Mercy-James-A. Houk-Vernon-N. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nejm-letters The New England Journal of Medicine. 1989 May 4. 320 (18). pp 1214-1217. Correspondence: Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, And Homicide: A Tale Of Two Cities. Blackman-Paul-H. Hagen-Tim. Morris-David-C. Stolinsky-David-C. Tirer-Samuel. Gryder-John-W. Kuziak-John-D. Sloan-John-H. Kellerman-Arthur-L-Kellermann. Rivara-Fred-P. Koepsell-Thomas. Reay-Donald-T. LoGerfo-James-P. Rice-Charles. Ferris-James-A. Gray-Laurel- A. Mercy-James-A. Houk-Vernon-N. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: suicide.1 The New England Journal of Medicine. 1990 Feb 8. 322 (6). pp 369-373. Special Article: Firearm Regulations And Rates Of Suicide: A Comparison of Two Metropolitan Areas. Sloan-John-Henry. Rivara-Frederick-P. Reay-Donald-T. Ferris-James-A-J. Kellermann-Arthur-L. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: suicide.2 The New England Journal of Medicine. 1990 Jul 12. 323 (2). p 137. Correspondence: Firearm Regulations and Rates of Suicide. Blackman-Paul-H. Sloan-John-Henry. Rivara-Frederick-P. Kellermann-Arthur. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: totc The New England Journal of Medicine. 1988 Nov 10. 319 (19). pp 1256-1262. Special Article: Handgun Regulations, Crime, Assaults, And Homicide: A Tale of Two Cities. Sloan-John-Henry. Kellermann-Arthur-L. Reay-Donald-T. Ferris-James-A. Koepsell-Thomas. Rivara-Frederick-P. Rice-Charles. Gray-Laurel. LoGerfo-James. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nra.cdc An open letter from Paul H. Blackman, of NRA to the Director, Office of Scientific Integrity Review, U.S. Public Health Service, detailing why they should evaluate the integrity and competency of firearms research conducted by and for the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.000 What the RKBA.nnn files are all about. The RKBA.nnn series are set of small (60-100 lines typically) postings that address common questions and myths about all aspects of firearms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.001 Accidental deaths by firearms and by other means. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE: RKBA.002 Declining trend of accidental deaths by firearms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.003 Homicide per capita in the US ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.004 Children and firearms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.008 Annual firearm manufacture in the United States ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.010 Declaration of Independence ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.013 Trend in weapons use for robberies (1974-86) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.014 Reasons for homicide and non-negligent manslaughter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.015 Are firearms a leading cause of death of children? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.016 Is the United States the most violent nation? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: RKBA.999 Complete list of all sources used for the RKBA.nnn series. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: cox-study Analysis of the Cox Atlanta Journal Constitution, 21 May 1989 article on Assault Weapons, by James J. Baker of NRA-ILA, before the Select Committee on Narcotics Abuse and Control, U.S. House of Representatives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: feder11.txt The Federalist Papers, as transcribed by Project Gutenberg 1.1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: great-quotes Thomas Jefferson quotes and more ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: civilian Civilian Possession of Military Firearms, by Richard A. I. Munday, from the January/February 1988 issue of the UK Handgunner. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: good-go-bad ""When Good, Law-Abiding Citizens Go Bad"", from UK Handgunner No. 46 Jan-Feb 1989. Discusses how the rate of compliance of gun control laws is always very low, even among otherwise law abiding citizens. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: tory-national-socialism ""Tory National Socialism"", by Richard A.I. Munday, UK Handgunner, Jul-Aug 86. Discusses the gun control leanings of socialists of the right. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: the-big-lie "" Gun Grabbers vs. Assault Rifles: The Big Lie"" by Neal Knox, Semi-auto military-styled ""assault"" rifles are not now nor have they ever been a threat to society. These facts have been determined by the government - but never released to the public! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: ff-47 ""The Founding Fathers and the AK-47"", by Sue Wimmershoff-Caplan Discuss the question if the Founding Fathers would have approved of the AK-47 for civilian ownership. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hcikkk ""Handgun Control, Inc., & the KKK"" by David Kopel, from the Oct 91 issue of Gun World magazine. Discusses the parallels in the hate campaigns of the Ku Klux Klan and Handgun Control, Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: rkba-orgs A list of organizations devoted to the preservation of the Second Amendment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: victoria ""The Gun Law Handbook"" for the state of Victoria, Australia (Oct 1988). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nra-purposes A summary of the NRA's purposes and objectives, and positions on some gun control issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: ktw A collection of articles relating to teflon coated, armor piercing bullets. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: thompsoncenter The Supreme Court decision in the case: United States of America v. Thompson/Center Arms Co. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: DMN_Gratia_CCP ""Concealed weapons can prevent tragedies like Killeen's"" by Dr. Suzanna Gratia in the Dallas Morning News, Sunday April 29th, 1992 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: Knox_AW_lies Neal Knox on how military style semi-auto's are not a threat to public safety, how they are not fundamentally different than ordinary hunting weapons, and how the gun grabbers are exploiting the bad image this class of weapons has to enact further gun control. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: WSJ_Crimestrik ""The NRA Mounts a Militant Campaign Taking Aim at Criminal-Justice System"" by Alix M. Freedman staff reporter of The Wall Street Journal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: med-media ""Gun Prohibition in the Medical Literature - Telling the Truth?"" by Edgar A. Suter, MD ; discusses anti-gun bias in medical journals. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: toy-guns ""Court Psychologist Says Toy Guns Are Good For Children"" from Gun Week, 1989. Glen David Skoler, court psychologist for the Arlington County, VA, claims ""toys of violence"" -- including toy guns are, in fact, good for children. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: awca89-appeal Text of the 9th Circuit court of Appeals in the Fresno Rifle and Pistol Club challenge to California's Roberti-Roos Assault Weapon Control Act of 1989. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: lp92-rkba The right to keep and bear arms plank of the 1992 National Platform of the Libertarian Party. And a reproduction of the Libertarian Party brochure ""Responsible Gun Ownership: Equal Rights for America's Gun Owners"" The entire 1992 National Platform of the LP is available via anonymous ftp on think.com in the file /pub/libernet/LP/libertarian-platform-1992 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: let-july91 An article from the July/August 1991 issue of Law Enforcement Technology with a survey of police officers on their views of gun control. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nacp-poll A study conducted by the National Association of the Chiefs of Police (NACP) through its American Law Enforcement Survey for 1989, in which 16,259 chiefs of police, sheriffs and law-enforcement command personnel were polled with a list of 30 questions, it was determined the overwhelming majority of officers support the right of private arms ownership, and agreed that gun bans had little effect on crime. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hci-advert A example of the propaganda used by HCI in soliciting contributions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hci-transcript A transcription of the HCI video tape ""America Needs a National Handgun Control Policy"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gartner Michael Gartner, president of NBC News, calls for a ban on handguns in this USA TODAY Thursday January 16th 1992 editorial. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nra-lp A resolution passed by the voting membership of the NRA at its national convention in Anaheim, CA stating the NRA will support third party candidates. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: cooley Thomas M. Cooley, LL.D., General Principles of Constitutional Law in the United States of America, 298-299 (3rd ed. 1898), a leading constitutional commentator discussed the rights protected by the Second Amendment: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: kilpatrick ""Gun Law Might Curb Rising Murder Rate"" by James Kilpatrick, St. Louis Post-Dispatch Tuesday June 23, 1992. Kilpatrick expresses support for a national firearms law as proposed by C. Everett Koop, that is, a requirement that gun owners pass a competency test, among other things. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: vanity-fair A summary of the 10 page article on Jim and Sarah Brady which appeared in the January '91 issue of Vanity Fair Magazine. Question: ""Was it true you wanted to get a gun to protect yourself against Hinckley?"" Answer Jim brady: ""I had a gun"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: goldwin ""Gun Control Is Constitutional,"" by Robert A. Goldwin from the Wall Street Journal edtorial page, Thrusday, December 12, 1991 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: anniston Two articles on a murder averted in Anniston, Alabama by a man with a CCW permit. The importance of this event is that it closely followed the murders by Hennard in Texas, but the media did not cover Anniston. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: staggers-brady A survey of public support for the Staggers Instant Background Check and the Brady Waiting Period. The basic finding is that once the public understands the advantages of the instant background check vs. the problems with the Brady waiting period support for the Brady waiting period diminishes greatly. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: brady-vote How Congress voted on the Staggers Instant Background Check and the Brady Waiting period. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: vs-vote How Congress voted on the Volkmer-Sensenbrenner Amendment to strike the new gun control sections from the administration crime bill. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: dc-vote How the U.S. Senate voted on S. 2113, the repeal of the District of Columbia's anti-gun strict liability law. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: covey ""Gun Control: Trying the Facts, Weighing the Values"" A monograph based on ""Crime, Inequality, Guns, & Equity"" by Preston K. Covey, Ph.D., Director Center for the Advancement of Applied Ethics, Carnegie Mellon University. Addresses the desirability of gun bans: ethical aspects, equity issues, and other values at stake in the management of mortal risks, deadly force and its instruments. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: assays-of-bias ""Assays of Bias on the Second Amendment: The Media Elite"" by Preston K. Covey, Director Center for the Advancement of Applied Ethics [excerpts from a longer monograph] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: cleveland A critique of: ACCIDENTAL FIREARM FATALITIES IN A METROPOLITAN COUNTY (1958-1973) Rushforth, Hirsch, Ford, and Adelson American Journal of Epidemiology #100, 1974, pp. 499-505. This is THE study that lies at the heart of the gun control claim that owning a firearm for self-defense is too dangerous. The claims that a defensive gun is X (=6 in this study) times more likely to be used against an innocent person than in lawful self-defense originated with this report in 1974. by Robert I. Kesten ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: tiananmen-lessons ""LESSONS FROM TIANANMEN SQUARE"" by Neal Knox reprinted from Guns & Ammo, September 1989 Why the Second Amendment is so important, even in todays more ""progressive"" era. Included is a description of the 1932 Bonus March in Washington, DC in which Gen. Douglas MacArthur opposed unemployed WWI veterans lobbying for the government to immediately pay their promised Veteran's Bonus. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: forward-trace ""California FFL Dealer Defies ""Forward Trace"""" by Neal Talbot in The New Gun Week, March 1, 1991. Details how the BATF bullies FFL holders into giving BATF copies of 4473's in violation of federal law. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: justice-stats ""Handgun Crime Victims"", by Michael R. Rand, Bureau of Justice Statistics Statistician, U.S. Department of Justice. This Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report describes the key findings from an analysis of handgun crimes reported in the National Crime Survey for 1979-87. It describes the victims of hand-gun [sic] crime, how the handgun was used during the crime, and the nature and extent of handgun crime injury. It also provides information on handgun offenders, the location of handgun crimes, and whether the crime was reported to the police. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: chafee Included are: 1) Transcript of press conference with Senator John Chafee, and former Supreme Court justice Warren Burger on S. 2913, Chafee's, handgun ban. Also speaking was Vernon Jordan, former member of the Jimmy Carter White House; Mayor Sharon Pratt Kelly; Michael Beard of National Coalition to Stop Gun Violence; Michael Casserly (executive director, Council of the Great City Schools); Dr. Carden Johnston representing the American Academy of Pediatrics; 2) An article by Neal Knox in which he describes how Sarah Brady kicked out HCI president Charles Orasin because of a disagreement on Chafee's handgun ban. 3) An article on Burger's support for S. 2913. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: alarmist-view ""Gun Registration: An 'Alarmist' View"" by Jon vanWormer; reprinted from the December 1985 Guns & Ammo. How an rkba moderate became a radical. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: fackler-papers A list of articles by ""Col. Martin L. Fackler, M.D., F.A.C.S."" Wound Ballistics Lab, and where to write for copies of them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gun-war ""THE GREAT AMERICAN GUN WAR"" by Barry Bruce-Briggs, _The_Public_Interest_ No. 45, Fall 1976, pp 37-62 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: george-will ""Repeal Second Amendment and Save Lives"", by George Will ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: reeves ""Drastic Steps to End the War at Home"" by Richard Reeves, no date nor publication available; placed in rkba archive 9/2/92 ""Studies _Prove_ Gun Control Works"" by Richard Reeves, from the Kansas City Star, 9/28/92. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: canada-ban-list A reproduction of a brochure from the Canadian Department of Justice listing newly prohibited and restricted firearms (as of June 1992). Also included is the ""point system"" used to determine if a firearm should be reviewed for possible banning. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: copkiller Lyrics to the rock song ""Cop Killer"" by Ice-T on the album Body Count. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: cva.1 A letter from the California Voters Alliance, asking for support in their effort to defeat anti-gun California Assemblyman Terry Friedman, co-author of California's waiting period law for rifles and shotguns. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: astrology ""CRIMINOLOGY'S ASTROLOGY: The CDC Approach to Public Health Research on Firearms and Violence"" by PAUL H. BLACKMAN, Ph.D., Institute for Legislative Action, National Rifle Association, 1990 A paper presented at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology, Baltimore, Maryland, November 7-10 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: aw-panic The Assault Weapon Panic: ""Political Correctness"" Takes Aim, at the Constitution, by Eric Morgan and David Kopel Published by The Independence Institute, October 10, 1991 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: state-rkba A collection of RKBA provisions from State constitutions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: too-late Chapter 13 ""But then it was too Late"" of ""THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE FREE: The Germans, 1933 - 1945"", by: Milton Mayer, University of Chicago Press ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: militia-code The legal definition of the militia of the United States of America taken from: United Stated Code (USC), TITLE 10, Section 311 and Section 312. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: legal-mg-crime Report No. 32 of the Firearms Coalition of Silver Spring, MD. 11/29/89 by Neal Knox. Knox reports that a legally registered machine gun was used in a drug hit. Subsequent reports said charges were dropped for lack of evidence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hci-cash HCI donation records to US Senators and Congressmen. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: paulreverenet Information about the ""Paul Revere Net"", a network of 2nd Amendment Bulletin Boards The Paul Revere Network (PRN) is a coast-to-coast network of committed grass-roots gun rights activists who rely upon computer bulletin board systems for their primary mode of communication. Leroy Pyle (NRA Director and 27-year San Jose police veteran) is Founder and Director of the PRN. Based in San Jose, CA, Pyle's BBS (1:143/223) currently hubs all network message traffic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gun-talk Information about the NRA-ILA Bulletin Board ""Gun Talk"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congressgrades A grading of congressmen based their votes on 1) the Brady Bill (HR7), 2) Staggers (HR1412) and 3) the Volkmer-Sensenbrenner amendment to strike the anti-gun provisions from the house crime bill (HR3371). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: lawmaster ""FEDS TRASH LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNER'S HOME"", NRA official journal March 1992, by Richard E. Gardiner. Details how the BATF raided the home of Johnny Lawmaster in search of a non-existent unregistered M-16 auto-sear. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: point-blank The concluding chapter to ""Point Blank"" by Gary Kleck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: purdy-rapsheet Patrick Purdy's criminal record. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: progundocs Statement of purpose and contact information for ""Doctors for Integrity in Research & Public Policy"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: orlando A summary of the effects of the highly publicized Orlando training program in which over 6000 women were trained in basic pistol marksmanship and the law of self-defense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: form4signoff A letter from Wayne Miller, Chief National Firearms Act Branch of BATF stating that local law enforcement signoff on the ATF Form 4, application for Taxpaid Transfer and Registration of Firearm [i.e., machine gun], is completely discretionary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: badlands.txt New Zealand Firearms Control by Robert Badlands. A paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne University-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was sponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: danto.txt Issues Regarding Gun Control in America by Bruce L. Danto A paper was presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne University-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was sponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: fine.txt Impediments to the Purposeful Reform of (Australian) Firearms Laws by J. D. Fine A paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne University-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was sponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: greenwd.txt Untitled paper by Colin Greenwood A paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne University-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was sponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: kates.txt Gun Control: Recent Research on the American Experience by Don B. Kates, Jr. A paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne University-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was sponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: marsden.txt Gun Control: A Banker's Perspective, by ??? Marsden A paper presented at a conference on Gun Control held at Melbourne University-Union Theatre 27-28 August 1988. The conference was sponsored by the Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia. Note, this paper is almost impossible to read currently as the original would not scan well. A more readable copy will be supplied later. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: backdoor Back Door Gun Control by Peter Alan Kasler from the January 1993 issue of American Survival Guide magazine. Kasler discusses four examples of innocent people whose firearms are confiscated, and/or charged with a crime when none was committed, as examples of how gun control is implemented in the real world. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: armed-citizen ""The Armed Citizen"" feature from ""The American Rifleman"" and ""The American Hunter""; these stories show how firearms are indeed useful for self-defense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: botsford The Case Against Gun Control by David Botsford ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: academia-bias ""Fighting Anti-Gun Bias in Academia -- an article downloaded from the NRA-ILA BBS ""Gun Talk"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: story-of-gun ""The Story of a Gun"" by Erik Larson, from ""The Atlantic"", January 1993. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hcr** Reports to the Firearms Coalition, by Neal Knox. All these files are named hcr then two numbers, e.g., hcr51 for ""Report No. 51 to the Firearms Coalition"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: whose.txt ""Whose Side Are They On ?"" ""Freedom From War: The United States Program For General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World."" an official publication of the United States of America government. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nccfa Contact information for the ""National Collegiate Coalition for Firearms Awareness"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: canada Some facts about Canadian gun control laws, gun ownership and violent crime. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: time-letter Time magazine's form letter response to criticism of their ""Death By Gun"" issue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gun-in-school ""Health Objectives for the Nation: Weapon-Carrying Among High School Students -- United States, 1990"" edited by David Dodell, D.M.D. Proposes ways to reduce carrying of firearms by high school students. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: congress-cover ""Congress Covers Itself But Not Public"" by Paul Craig Roberts, printed in the Cleveland Plain Dealer October 2nd, 1992. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hamper ""Restrictions hamper law abiding folks, not criminals."" by David B. Kopel, printed in the Columbus OH Dispatch, January 16th. Points out how waiting periods can cause a great deal of harm. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: schumer-gripe A ""Washington Post"" letter to the editor by Congessman Charles E. Schumer discussing his bill, H.R. 5633, which requires law enforcement sign-off on FFL applications. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: sof A UPI article on a lawsuit against ""Soldier of Fortune"" which forced them out of business. This article is copyright by UPI, and archived with permission; please respect the re-distribution prohibition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: fl-stats A summary of CCW permit statistics for the state of Florida, e.g., the number of permits issued, number revoked, number denied, etc. This proves that people obtaining CCW permits are law abiding citizens and are not wreckless with their firearms. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: knox-on-ruger ""Knox Replies To Comment From Ruger Counsel's"" from The New Gun Week, December 1, 1989. Neal Knox discusses how Sturm, Ruger Inc. are willing to sacrifice the RKBA for the benefit of their business. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: american-blacks ""Gun Control and American Blacks"" by Raymond G. Kessler (pp. 476-478) In the United States, the experience of blacks from slavery through the 1960's was one of the clearest and best-documented examples of the political functions of gun control. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nraction* The NRA-ILAs little known newsletter ""NRAction""; names will have the month and year at the end, e.g., nraction0291. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: americamilitia ""America's Militia"" by David B. Kopel, appeared in ""Gun World"" magazine December 1992. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hci93agenda The ""Action Agenda for a National Gun Policy"" by HCI. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hci-newsletter The Handgun Control Semi-Annual Progress Report for December 1992. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hattoripetition A petition written by the host family of Japanese exchange student Yoshihiro Hattori, who was killed when he went to the wrong home for a Halloween party: ""To protest the easy availability of firearms in the United States"" which will be presented to President Clinton. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hci-election ""What the Election Means for Our Gun Control Movement"" by Sarah Brady. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: centerwall University of Washington Pyschiatrist Dr. Brandon Centerwall writing in the April 1989 American Journal of Epidemiology says that television exposure is related to half of the homicides in the United States. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: va-outrage ""An Outrage in Virginia"" by Neal Knox. Describes how BATF used a Virginia gun dealer to general strawman sales and then later ""traced"" those guns back to VA so they could claim 40% of guns they traced came from VA. When the dealer stopped cooperating they were convicted of conducting strawman sales, one of the owners committed suicide. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: factcard93 The 1993 Firearms Fact Card published by the NRA-ILA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: nejm43 A letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal by Preston Covey on the factoid ""You are 43 times more likely to kill someone you know with a gun than a criminal."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: gifford An op-ed piece by Dan Gifford which appeared in the March 8 1993 issue of the Cleveland Plain Dealer; it discusses the issue of police abuses and citizen self defense against such abuses. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: reynolds An editorial ""Gun Makers Must Pay the Price"" by Mel Reynolds (D-IL), member US House of Representatives, which appeared in the 02/15/93 issue of the Chicago Tribune. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: pozner ""Gun Control"" with Vladamir Pozner (yes, the commie) and Phil Donahue from a Feb. 25 1993 broadcast on CNBC. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: trustpeople CATO Institute Policy Analysis No. 109, July 11, 1988 ""TRUST THE PEOPLE: THE CASE AGAINST GUN CONTROL,"" by David B. Kopel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: bitterprice The British Shooter Pays A Bitter Price, by Keith G. N. Nicholson from the American Rifleman, March 1993. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: batman ""Cartoon Campaign for Gun Control"" from the March 8th 1993 issue of ""New American"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: batfss ""Waco Shootout Evokes Memory of Warsaw '43"" from the Wall Street Journal, Monday, March 15, 1993 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: academics Contact information for ""Academics for the Second Amendment"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: propaganda Anti-Gun-Ownership Propaganda, by Doan Boal in the March, '92 issue of Survival Guide. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: media-fairness Media Fairness Action Plan Is Continuing, by James H. Warner, NRA Ass't General Counsel, from American Rifleman, March 1993, page 54. This describes the FCC's ""personal attack"" rule and how the NRA may take advantage of this rule against broadcasters who attack the NRA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: artconf ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION, Proposed by Congress November 15, 1777, Ratified and effective March 1, 1781 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: pending-bills A list of the currently pending gun control bills in the US Seante and House of Representatives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: noduty Self-Reliance For Self-Defense -- Police Protection Isn't Enough! by Peter Kasler ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: leftout The Second Amendment: A Right Left Out, by Doctor Linda Karen Miller appearing in The American Rifleman, February 1993, p. 33. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: copsnguns WHAT COPS SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE GUN ISSUE! by Leroy Pyle, from the May 1992 issue of Guns&Ammo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: crossfire A transcript of the Wednesday, March 3 1993 edition of the CNN show CROSSFIRE. The participants are Michael Kinsley, John Sununu, Rep. Charles Schumer (D-NY) Criminal Justice Subcmte., and J.F. = Rep. Jack Fields (R-TX) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: naziconnection The WAR ON GUN OWNERSHIP STILL GOES ON! -- GUN CONTROL'S NAZI CONNECTION! by Craig Peterson from the May 1993 issue of Guns & Ammo. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: armedcriminal The Armed Criminal in America, by James Wright, 1986. A Research in Brief published by the National Institute of Justice. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: bigotry ""BIGOTRY, SYMBOLISM AND IDEOLOGY IN THE BATTLE OVER GUN CONTROL"" by Don Kates, from the 1992 ""Public Interest Law Review"" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: flmurd.ps File: gamurd.ps File: idmurd.ps File: mtmurd.ps File: nodiscr.ps File: ormurd.ps File: pamurd.ps File: philmurd.ps File: utmurd.ps File: vamurd.ps File: wamurd.ps File: wvmurd.ps CCW laws and murder rates in several states, by Clayton Cramer. These are all PostScript files and require the use of PostScript printer to print. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: hammer Marion Hammer on the Failure of Gun Control, downloaded from Gun Talk. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: threechiefs The views of Police Chiefs Daryl Gates (LA), Lee Brown (NYC), LeRoy Martin (Chicago) on gun control and other civil rights. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA archive: general information and anonymous ftp instructions. The moderator of the firearms-politics mailing list, Karl Kleinpaste, has agreed to set up an anonymous ftp archive directory for RKBA related information. This directory can be used for things like articles by Kates, Wright, Tonso, Levinson, Supreme Court Decisions, the RIA vs US decision, copies of legislation, and so on. It's not meant to be for the discussions that normally appear here. So, in the future if you're looking for something check there first and then ask here. Instructions: Short version for techies: The site is godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu. Place contributions into the directory /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba. The ftp commands get, put, mget, or mput should work. Give the command ""type binary"" to be sure files are transferred correctly. Your files will be moved to the rkba directory. To get a file use the commands get or mget. I will maintain an index which you should get first to check if the file you want to read or write already is archived. Long version for non-techies: In order for you to use this archive your computer must be on the Internet. To connect to the archive site run the command: ftp godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu If that doesn't work you cannot use this archive. If the ftp command is successful you'll get this prompt asking you for a login: Name (godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu:lvc): Instead of lvc your initials will appear. Answer this prompt with: ftp Next you'll get this prompt asking your for your e-mail address: Guest login ok, send e-mail address as password: I would enter: l.v.cipriani@att.com You'll enter your own e-mail address. You'll get these lines or similar as output: Remote system is UNIX. Using binary mode to transfer files. Next, the command prompt is printed: ftp> If you do not get the line ""Using binary mode to transfer files."" Run the command: type binary Now you're logged in to the archive machine. There are many directories on this machine but the two you are concerned with are /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba and /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/incoming There are subdirectories to the rkba directory, those are discussed below. When you login to the system your directory is /usr0/anon. To retreive files change your current directory to the rkba directory with the command: cd /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/rkba or cd pub/firearms/politics/rkba To submit files change your directory to the incoming directory with the command: cd /usr0/anon/pub/firearms/politics/incoming or cd pub/firearms/politics/incoming Once you do this you'll get another ftp> prompt asking you to enter another command. To find the names of the existing files in the directory you are in run the command: ls -l This will produce something like: total 6021 -r--r--r-- 1 karl 6932 Jun 16 1992 DMN_Gratia_CCP -r--r--r-- 1 karl 69149 Apr 5 19:20 INDEX -r--r--r-- 1 karl 18965 Jun 16 1992 Knox_AW_lies -r--r--r-- 1 karl 10930 Apr 30 1992 S361 -r--r--r-- 1 karl 8958 Jun 16 1992 WSJ_Crimestrike -r--r--r-- 1 karl 2649 Jan 13 18:33 academia-bias -r--r--r-- 1 karl 935 Mar 22 22:38 academics -r--r--r-- 1 karl 36079 Aug 4 1992 aclu ... and so on ... Each line corresponds to one file. Reading right to left, the fields are the file name, the last modification date of the file, the size of the file in bytes, and some permission fields which you do not need to be concerned with. To get a file run the command ""get"" followed by the name of the file you want, for example: get INDEX or get noduty After the file is transfered to your machine a message like this: Transfer complete. 19580 bytes received in 5 seconds (4 Kbytes/s) You can repeat the get command for every file you want to retreive. You can use the mget command to retreive multiple files. If the file you want is in a subdirectory, for example, congress/103rd/HR1025 you should change your directory to the appropriate subdirectory first and then retrieve it: cd congress/103rd get HR1025 Once you're finished you can log off with the command: quit If you have a file you want to contribute the procedure is a little different. First of all you should find out if the file already exists, so get a copy of the index file with the procedure above and look it over to make sure you wouldn't repeat an entry. The index will have a description of each of the files in the rkba directory. For example: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File: whitemanslaw White Man's Law by William R. Tonso, from the December 1985 Reason magazine ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Once you've determined you won't be duplicating an entry, login and change to the incoming directory command (see above). Once you are in the incoming directory use the command: put file_name In this case: put whitemanslaw Again there'll be a ""Transfer complete, so many bytes transfered in so many seconds"" message. Now your file is on the archive machine. Another thing to watch out for is duplicate file /names/. Be sure there isn't a file in the incoming directory that is called the same as the file you want to write. If you use the same name you'll overwrite the previous file [or you'll get an error message]. Your file may have to be renamed if there is a conflict with a file by the same name in the rkba directory. Once your file is in the incoming directory send me an entry for the INDEX file and I will add it to the file. If you cannot use anonymous ftp and would still like to contribute a file email the file to me and I'll take care of the rest. If you submit a file and do not notify me it may be removed, so be sure to let me know first. If you have any questions feel free to ask me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Larry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com -- Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com .. (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy (and last but not least a disclaimer) These opinions are mine.. ",16 "Re: Once they get your keys.... In article tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes: >It is unclear whether obtaining the key at time 0 also unlocks >messages recorded (by whomever) at earlier times. The announcement was >silent on this. The betting seems to be that once your key has been >obtained (by the authorities, by divorce lawyers, by the Mafia, by the >FBI, by lost or stolen backup tapes, by the NSA, etc.). all previous >conversations are unsecure. (Session keys are negotiated, but knowing >the private key is believed by many commentators here to break the >security. No doubt more details will emerge.) It is completely clear. You have to assume that each byte that was encrypted by this 'Clipper Chip' has been compromised. Some people wondered, why Denning, Hellman and others did not respond, when asked what would be done about such compromised phones, or if compromise could not be restricted in time. (I did too) Let us just assume that a) They do not know and b) Those who know don't tell and c) They do not care. It seem's to be an 'Other Person's Problem' ... gec -- Instruments register only through things they're designed to register. Space still contains infinite unknowns. PGP-Key-ID:341027 Germano Caronni caronni@nessie.cs.id.ethz.ch FD560CCF586F3DA747EA3C94DD01720F ",11 "Re: pointer for info (long shot) In article , Regis M Donovan writes: > This is something of a long shot... but what the hell. the net is > full of people with strange knowledge... > > I'm looking for suggestions as to what could be causing health > problems one of my relatives is having. > > One of my cousins has had health problems for much of her life. > Around the age of 10 she had some gynecological problems. Now she's > in her early/mid twenties and she is going blind. > > Her eyes are not producing enough (if any) moisture. She's been going > to Mass Eye and Ear and the doctors there have no clue what the actual > cause is. THey have apparently tried eyedrops and such. She is just > about completely blind in one eye and the other is massively > deteriorated. Sjogren's syndrome has been known to induce dryness in vaginal tissue as well as induce primary biliary cirrhosis. Otherwise the abdominal swelling could be due to a complication of Sjogren's known as pseudolymphoma which *can* produce a splenomegaly (enlarged spleen). She should definitely see a rheumatologist. Since you don't mention skin disorder, anemia, or joint pain you'd probably rule out erythema nodosum or scleroderma. Josh backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL > > Also, and this may or may not be related, she is having some changes > in her abdomen. her stomach has swelled (i'm not sure if this is > stomach the organ or stomach teh area of the body). > > I guess the step they're going to take next is to do a whole battery > of tests to check all the other internal systmes besides just the > eyes... > > but just because the net is a source of large amounts of bizarre > knowledge, i'm going to ask: has anyone ever heard of anything like > this? suggestions of things to ask about (since much of my knowledge > about her state comes second or third hand)? > > Thanks. > --Regis > zonker@silver.lcs.mit.edu > ",13 "LA ON ABC IN CANADA Was the ABC coverage of the Kings/Flames game supposed to be the way it was shown in BC with CBC overriding the ABC coverage? When I flipped to ABC, it was the same commentators, same commercials even. My question is: Was this the real ABC coverage or did CBC just ""black out"" the ABC coverage for its own? comment: CBC had a great chance for some double headers: Toronto/Detroit and Vancouver/Winnipeg, but today they said that the East gets the Leafs and the West get the Vancouver game. I thought that they would show them both. The GodfAther ",10 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. >Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space >Subject: Re: Vandalizing the sky. > My apologies if this is a re-post - I submitted it on Friday, but got a message that my post might not have gone out. Considering the confusing spitting contest over 'rights', (there are TOO inalienable rights damn it! The majority can be just as destructive of liberty as a despot), I suspect that my post did not get out of my site. (I ain't saying that dark skies are included in these rights, although we can only preserve any rights by exercising them.) Anyway, here are my thoughts on this: I'd like to add that some of the ""protests"" do not come from a strictly practical consideration of what pollution levels are acceptable for research activities by professional astronomers. Some of what I would complain about is rooted in aesthetics. Many readers may never have known a time where the heavens were pristine - sacred - unsullied by the actions of humans. The space between the stars as profoundly black as an abyss can be. With full horizons and a pure sky one could look out upon half of all creation at a time - none of which had any connection with the petty matters of man. Any lights were supplied solely by nature; uncorruptable by men. Whole religions were based on mortal man somehow getting up there and becoming immortal as the stars, whether by apotheosis or a belief in an afterlife. The Space Age changed all that. The effect of the first Sputniks and Echo, etc. on this view could only happen once. To see a light crossing the night sky and know it was put there by us puny people is still impressive and the sense of size one gets by assimilating the scales involved is also awesome - even if the few hundreds or thousands of miles involved is still dwarfed by the rest of the universe. But there is still a hunger for the pure beauty of a virgin sky. Yes, I know aircraft are almost always in sight. I have to live in a very populated area (6 miles from an international airport currently) where light pollution on the ground is ghastly. The impact of humans is so extreme here - virtually no place exists that has not been shaped, sculpted, modified, trashed or whipped into shape by the hands of man. In some places the only life forms larger than bacteria are humans, cockroaches, and squirrels (or rats). I visited some friends up in the Appalacian mountains one weekend, ""getting away from it all"" (paved roads, indoor plumbing, malls, ...) and it felt good for a while - then I quickly noticed the hollow was directly under the main flight path into Dulles - 60-80 miles to the east. (Their 'security light' didn't help matters much either.) But I've heard the artic wilderness gets lots of high air traffic. So I know the skies are rarely perfect. But there is still this desire to see a place that man hasn't fouled in some way. (I mean they've been TRYING this forever - like, concerning Tesla's idea to banish night, - wow!) I don't watch commercial television, but I can imagine just how disgusting beer, truck, or hemmorrhoid ointment advertisements would be if seen up so high. If ya' gotta make a buck on it (displaying products in heaven), at least consider the reactions from those for whom the sky is a last beautiful refuge from the baseness of modern life. To be open about this though, I have here my listing of the passage of HST in the evening sky for this weekend - tonight Friday at 8:25 p.m. EDT it will reach an altitude of 20.1 degrees on the local meridian from Baltimore vicinity. I'll be trying to see it if I can - it _is_ my mealticket after all. So I suppose I could be called an elitist for supporting this intrusion on the night sky while complaining about billboards proposed by others. Be that as it may, I think my point about a desire for beauty is valid, even if it can't ever be perfectly achieved. Regards, Wm. Hathaway Baltimore MD (P.S. added Tuesday - this again is not a rights/vs./reality tome, just a warning that someone into destroying beauty had better know that other people may not accept it without a complaint.) ",14 "Re: I donwloaded a .bin file from a unix machine - now what? In article matess@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (Eliza Strickler) writes: >I just donwloaded a *.bin file from a unix machine which is >supposed to be converted to a MAC format. Does anyone know >what I need to do to this file to get it into any Dos, Mac >or Unix readable format. Someone mentioned fetch on the unix >machine - is this correct? Could someone explain the .bin >format a little? > This is almost certainly a MacBinary file which is an encoded version of a mac file so the Resource fork and Data fork get preserved. You need a program that converts this to a regular file. If this is a macbinary file, you may have downloaded it in Text mode and is probably corrupt (if you did). If you're using FTP to transfer it at any point make sure you type ""binary"" first. If you can open the file with a text editor and find (This file must be converted with Bin.... at the top, it is a BinHex file and can be decoded with BinHex 4.0 (among other programs). -- Niko Schuessler Project Vincent Systems Manager email: niko@iastate.edu Iowa State University Computation Center voice: (515) 294-1672 Ames IA 50011 snail: 291 Durham ",1 "Re: The arrogance of Christians news@cbnewsk.att.com writes: : Arrogance is arrogance. It is not the result of religion, it is the result : of people knowing or firmly believing in an idea and one's desire to show : others of one's rightness. I assume that God decided to be judge for our : sake as much as his own, if we allow him who is kind and merciful be the : judge, we'll probably be better off than if others judged us or we judged : ourselves. I'm not sure I agree with this 100%. I agree that arrogance is not the result of religion and that God is a far better judge than we are. I also agree if you mean to say that arrogance shows up in the form of trying to prove one's superior knowledge, rightness, or holiness over another person's beliefs. I need to be careful to understand what you mean here so that I do not fall into the mistake of misrepresenting your views. If I fall down in this area I hope you will forgive me. Arrogance is not the result of believing one is right or of believing that one's God is greater than the god's of others or of believing that one's religion is better than other religions. These are all naturally self-implied beliefs. It is self-contradictory to say that I believe my current beliefs to be wrong. Were I to find myself in error, my beliefs would naturally change and follow what I believe to be right. Therefore, I must always consider my beliefs correct. That's not arrogance. That's unavoidable behavior. It is nonsense to say that I believe another person's god to be greater than my God. Were his or her god greater, wouldn't I be obligated to change so that their god would become my God? We are naturally obligated to worship that God which we deem to be the greatest. Why should we feel obligated to worship a second best god for the sake of feeling humble? Arrogance is not necessarily thinking onesself to be better looking or more intelligent or stronger or having more resources than another person. No doubt many will have to chew on this one awhile. Were passive observation of one's superior points arrogance, then God would be most arrogant of all. Humility does not rest in slandering or belittling God's work of creation in our lives. People often go around trying to be humble saying to one another, ""I'm not very smart. I'm poor. I'm not good looking. I'm just a worm in the ground. I'm such a weak person and although I don't want to sin, I really cannot help it."" Were this person truely humble, he would take a different approach. ""God, thank you for making me the way you did. I know that you never do anything second best. Yet with all that you have given me, I have been so unthankful. You've given me power to resist the devil. I have not used it but have indulged myself in doing exactly what you have said not to do. I have slandered your creation in my life and have credited myself with humility for doing so. Lord, with all you've given me, I have been completely unfaithful and I do not deserve your forgiveness. And, yet Your love for me is so boundless that you would give Yourself to die for me to save me. As terribly evil as I am, I deserve to go straight to hell, yet it pleases you somehow to rescue me from this terrible life I've led. Lord, please forgive me and help me stay on the right track so that I can bring glory to Your Name instead of insult. Lord I'm so sorry for my wrongs. Please help me to change."" : : I think people take exceptional offense to religious arrogance because : they don't want to be wrong. If I find someone arrogant, I typically : don't have anything to do with them. For me, I've often found it hard to tell the difference. Often times, the most humble christian has come across to me as arrogant while the most proud ""worm in the ground"" false humility type person has been found to be most comfortable company. When I'm wrong and arrogant about my wrongness, I certainly don't feel like being confronted by my wrongness. Were someone to confront me verbally with my wrongness, I'd be likely to snap at them and examine them head to toe for all their faults and charge them with hypocricy for what they said to me. At the root, my desire would be to make them shut up so that I can go about living my life arrogantly as I wish. However, were someone to confront me silently by their example, earn my respect, and perhaps mention it to me in humility in private, I'd feel broken down and challenged to seek God for help in changing from the error of my ways. The hard part is getting to the point to where I can be humble before anyone regardless of their humility or pride--regardless of their hypocricy or sincerity--regardless of whether onlookers will frown down upon me or not. It isn't easy to take this pain in love with thankfulness for the opportunity to improve in one's ability to serve God. It's easier to cast aside any hope of reaching true humility and merely hide behind slandering God's creation in our lives instead. : But we should examine ourselves [I hope I typed this back in right] : and why we react to certain situations with such emotions. For instance, : many of us feel ""justified"" to be insulted by an arrogant person. As if : we needed a reason to feel insulted. But after being insulted over and : over again by the words of others, you'd think we'd either toughen up : or decide not to be insulted, or ignore the insult. Just because you : can justify feelings of anger or insult or outrage, that doesn't make that : reaction the appropriate one. It is in this light of self-examination : that we can change our emotional reactions. : Sometimes it helps when we can understand and feel the difference between what is a true statement of our character and what is a false and slanderous statement of our character. The devil is the accuser of the bretheren. He would love us to feel hopelessly guilty where we are innocent and feel arrogant and self-righteous where we are indeed wrong. The devil's aim is to get us into as much misery as he can. Just think of the devil as a cruel and merci- less criminal who torments a parent by burning his or her children with hot irons. The way the devil gets under the Father's skin is by hurting those that the Father loves so much. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ""I deplore the horrible crime of child murder... We want prevention, not merely punishment. We must reach the root of the evil... It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt from the dreadful deed... No mater what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed... but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime."" - Susan B. Anthony, The Revolution July 8, 1869 ",15 "Re: Cache card for IIsi In article <1r2nb4$h42@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, da228@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles G. Williams) writes: >> So is $99 a good deal or not, I still don't know. > I would say that is not a good deal. In June's MacWorld, River > (formerly Maya computer) advertised a DayStar 33 MHz PowerCache WITH > 68882 for $295! Can you believe it? I know prices would be falling, > but geeze! > Actually, the 295 is for the 33 MHz PowerCard, not the Universal Powercache. The 33 MHz Universal Powercache with FPU and adaptor can be had for about $500 (still not a bad deal). I believe the Powercard is one generation older than the Universal Powercache, and the one primary difference is that the Powercard is machine specific while the Powercache can fit into many Macs with the proper adaptor. Both cards are 68030 based. I'm not sure if the hardware or software with the Powercard is otherwise different from the Powercache (perhaps someone could enlighten me?). I would also add that I called River Computer the other night and these Powercards were going very fast. Rich Spiegel Mission Analysis Group Johns Hopkins Road Laurel, MD 20723 (301)953-5000, x7627 ",4 "Re: Am I going to Hell? In article tbrent@ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent) writes: > I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but > definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion > about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the > effect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus > as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew, > buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not > believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be > lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only > god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions. excellent question timothy. i hpoe the answers you get will be satisfactory as we can not understand the mind of god. but to attempt to answer you clearly. GOD of the Bible has given us humans relativly little about how he intends to judge mankind. the first test is those who have beleived that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD and that his death and resurrection was sufficent to serve justice for all the acts we commit that are wrong in the eyes of god, the bible calls this sin. for those who die before the end of the world/have already died it is more complicated to explain without lapsing in to cliche. God must judge people on the baasis of their works in this world. however there is no plus and minus system for GOD. he has declared that he can not tolerate spiritual imperfection, thus he can only based your worthiness to live with him on the wrong in your life. Good people, yes even Christians are going to constantly sin before GOD, The Christian hoever thanks GOD that Christ has given his life for his sin's penalty. the proscribed punishment for sin is death, just as the proscribed punishment for robbery is time in jail. God then cannot ask for anything but punishement for those sins. He does not want to condem. the Bible says in John 3:17, that God did not send his son in to the word to condem it but that through him it might be saved."" when i realize that i have sinned, and i do with painful regularity, i must approach GOD and ask him to not hold thew sin against me, i have that right and privlige only because of Christ. as for Jews they are promised that they must believe on the Messiah who would come, and dis come in Jesus of Nazereth. Muslims, i fear have been given a lie from the fater of lies, Satan. They need Christ as do us all. for those who don't have that right, in the view of the bible they stand olone in their defense. are you going to hell? i can not answer that for you. i can only say that perhaps it is eaiser to ask and answer how can i not go to Hell? that step is much more rewarding. stan toney stoney@oyster.smcm.edu my opinions are my own, you may borrow them p.s. stay in touch and keep asking questions not just to us but to God as well, he listens too. ",15 "RE: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In a previous article, thomasez@dhhalden.no (THOMAS LUNDQUIST) wrote: >- They invented the ""how to make money on others ideas"". >- They made money. >- They weren't in the air at the wrong time... [...] >* heWhalesShaveTheWhalesShaveTheWhalesShaveBillGatesShaveTheWhalesShaveTheW * ^^^^^^^^^ He doesn't have a beard. Rob, being pointless, wondeing if anyone else caught that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____ ___ ____ / \ Any resemblance between the above views and || \ // \ || \ / Rob \ those of my faculty advisor, my terminal, or ||__/ || | ||__/ / Mohns \ the view out my window are purely coinci- || \ || | || \ / \ dental. Richard Traina may or may not || \ \\__/ ||__/ / rmohns@vax \ support said views, but probably doesn't ================== / .clarku.edu \ want Clarkies to think about them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",2 "Re: Christian Owned Organization list In article $stephan@sasb.byu.edu (Stephan Fassmann) writes: >In article <1993Apr13.025426.22532@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith ""Justified And Ancient"" Cochran) writes: > >>In article <47749@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> shopper@ucsd.edu writes: >>> >>>Does anyone have or know where I can find a list of christian-owned >>>corporations and companies? One that I know of is WordPerfect. >> >>I believe that WordPerfect is actually owned by the Mormons. > >Sorry, WordPerfect is own by A mormon not the LDS Church. Slight semantical difference. The LDS Church does own a heck of a lot however. They are the largest land holder in MIssouri (where they think Christ will appear at the second coming). I believe they also own some large beverage company like Pepsi (that was why they had to take caffiene off of their ""forbidden substance"" list). ",19 "New Mercedes Diesels Hi fellow auto enthusiasts! Does anyone have any info on the new 4 valve per cylinder diesels Mercedes is working on? Any specs on outputs, engine size, will they be direct or indirect injection?, etc. would be welcome. From what I hear these should be out late this year, next year?? Thank you in advance for your replies! Harjeet hsk@microplex.com ",7 "HP LaserJet III for Sale Hi, I have a HP LaserJet III for sale. It's been printed for less than 1500 pages according the self test report. I am asking $1000 for it. If interested, please e-mail. Thanks! ",6 "re: candlestick ------------------------- Original Article ------------------------- Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball Path: butch!netcomsv!netcom.com!csus.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.ed From: scunning@louven.berkeley.edu (Sean Cunningham) Subject: Candlestick Message-ID: <1993Apr21.041620.27894@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: nntp@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU (NNTP Poster) Nntp-Posting-Host: louven.berkeley.edu Organization: University of California, Berkeley Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 04:16:20 GMT Lines: 24 Hey folks, Saw the Giants play ball at the 'Stick Saturday, April 17. It was the game where Pendelton broke up the scoreless tie in the ninth with a two-out, two-run homer to right to win it. (It wasn't the game where the fans threw the give-away ""fotoballs"" onto the field in response to the homer -- too bad, huh?) Well, the 'Stick is still cold. The Saturday game ended at 5:45pm, and it was cold then. I can't imagine night games in April at the 'Stick. The wind kicked up a little, too, and I got this idea. At most games, there's a pile of hot dog wrappers and cups and trash on the field a lot of the time. I propose a Kid's Clean-up Corps composed mainly of 10-12 year old kids who would love nothing better than to run out on the field in the fifth inning (when the guy in the Toro smooths the infield) and grab the trash. It might not be glamorous, but at that age I probably would have given anything to be on the field with the ballplayers. Everybody wins here! Whaddaya think? Sean ************************* i was at opening day. the stadium and new owners were great!!! i pick candlesti ck anytime over the giants playing out of state. i only wish the buttheads in san jose had enough balls to vote for a stadium here! ",9 "No facts, just yapping --> Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <15427@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: > >Homosexuals lie about the 10% number to hide the disproportionate >involvement of homosexuals in child molestation. They also lie >about ""10%"" to keep politicians scared. > Out and out lie. Not substantiated. I do not understand statments like these. Please stop making such ridiculous claims. Maybe you should consider working for or getting your information from the National Inquirer for now on. >But many of the people who will be marching aren't homosexuals, but >other members of the leftist agenda. > Ahh! Rabbit from a hat. Here is another desperate step to discount any activity of the Washington Gay March. ># #The article also contains numbers on the number of sexual partners. ># #The median number of sexual partners for all men 20-39 was 7.3. ># ># Don't forget that 25% had 20 or more partners.... > >Not surprising. Remember, that study includes homosexuals as well. Yes, Mr. Cramer- and supposibly they are only 1% of the entire population. Plus you stated that the 7.3 figure is a 'MEDIAN'. ",18 "Investigating Phenylanine? Resinfo (research and information) is currently seeking contact _IN_ the United Kingdom with researchers of 'phenylanine', or is this amino acid uninspiring? Resinfo is not a regular subscriber to sci.med due to the excessive load of data and regrettably, our limited ability to monitor. It would therefore be appreciated if replies could be sent direct to; resinfo@resinfo.demon.co.uk using the ref: mr t.a.t. ",13 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism In article <30151@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >In article , adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Andy Peters) writes: > >>Evolution, as I have said before, is theory _and_ fact. It is exactly >>the same amount of each as the existence of atoms and the existence of >>gravity. If you accept the existence of atoms and gravity as fact, >>then you should also accept the existence of evolution as fact. > >I don't accept atoms or gravity as fact either. [deletions] Jim - we essentially agree, except about the definition of ""fact."" The scientific definition of ""fact"" is not ""the ultimate truth,"" but rather ""a theory which is so supported by evidence and so predictive that it is pointless to test it anymore."" So, we have the fact of evolution and we have theories of evolution (just as we have the fact of gravity and theories of gravity, and the fact of the atomic nature of matter and atomic theory). The fact of evolution is that the current diversity of life arose through common descent: this is so supported by the evidence that no one ever bothers to try to test it anymore. Theories of evolution include theories regarding the mechanism of common descent (natural selection vs. drift) or the actual ""pathways"" of evolution, or any number of other things. These are constantly being tested, because the actual mechanisms, etc, behind the fact of common descent are still up for question. Note that the fact of evolution is still a theory. In other words, it could, theoretically, still be falsified and rejected. But since it's so predictive, and so consistently supported by evidence, it seems pointless to explicitly try to falsify it anymore. [description of atomic theory, and alternative theories of gravity, deleted] >Both are very useful models that >have no religious overtones or requirements of faith, unless of course you >want to demand that it is a factual physical entity described exactly >the way the theory now formulated talks about it. Here is where you fail to make an important distinction. You have shoehorned the _facts_ of the _existence_ of gravity and atoms and evolution into one category with the _theories_ which have been proposed to explain the _mechanisms_. The existence of these things is so predictive as to be considered fact. The mechanisms, on the other hand, are still worth discussing. > jim halat halat@bear.com -- --Andy ""God is a real estate developer / with offices around the nation They say one day he'll liquidate / his holdings on High I say it's all speculation."" -- Michelle Shocked ",19 "Re: Changing oil by self. In article <13798@news.duke.edu> infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew Infante) write s: > >You're actually worried about somebody stealing >your oil? Ahhh yes, Andrew, we meet again... ...no, not 'stealing' the oil, just draining it as to leave me stranded. >C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?! Let me guess, you're from Hudson Ohio?? >That's absolutely ridiculous! Get out and see the world. ""IF"" I were the vandal, and I really hated someone, maybe someone who knew something about cars, of course I would look for ANY types of valves I could undo. Especially, special oil drain plugs, and radiator petcocks. As well as putting bad things in the gas... While I would never vandalize someone's car, IF I were to, it would probably be the 'time bomb' approach, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that way... steve ",7 "Re: What if the Dividians were black? In article roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes: > In article <1993Apr9.134525.21567@medtron.medtronic.com> rn11195@medtronic.COM (Robert Nehls) writes: > >Kenneth D. Whitehead (kdw@icd.ab.com) wrote: > >: oleary@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (brian.m.leary) writes: > > > >: > Questions for the media and the politically correct: > >: > > [...] > >: > If the people in the compound were black and the guys in ninja suits > > Some of the Davidians *are* black. > > Next question? > Still thinking you have all the answers, eh? > > -- > Jim -- jmd@handheld.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ""I'm always rethinking that. There's never been a day when I haven't rethought that. But I can't do that by myself."" Bill Clinton 6 April 93 ""If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms,-never--never--never!"" WILLIAM PITT, EARL OF CHATHAM 1708-1778 18 Nov. 1777 ",16 "Re: Arythmia In article <1993Apr22.031423.1@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu> u96_averba@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu writes: >doctors said that he could die from it, and the medication caused > Is it that serious? My EKG often comes back with a few irregular beats. Another question: Is a low blood potassium level very bad? My doctor seems concerned, but she tends to worry too much in general. ___________________________________________________________________________ Alexis Perry ""The less I want the more I get perry1@husc.harvard.edu Make me chaste, but not just yet. eliot house box 413 It's a promise or a lie (617) 493-6300 I'll repent before I die."" ""Work? Have you lost your mind?!"" -Ren -Sting Nobody really admits to sharing my opinions - last of all Harvard College ",13 "Re: How do I quickly switch between Windows screen resolutions? In article slg@slgsun.att.com (The Idealistic Cynic) writes: > > Can someone out there tell me how to switch Window's screen resolution > quickly and easily? I know that I can go back into install to do it, > but what I'd really like is to have is the ability to just change a > couple of startup or configuration files and have the resolution > changed. I already have both video drivers that I need on my system, > so that isn't a problem. > > Thanks, > > Sean. > > --- > Sean L. Gilley > sean.l.gilley@att.com <-- USE THIS ADDRESS, ALL OTHERS BOUNCE! > 614 236 5031 (h), 614 860 5743 (w) > There is a shareware program called v-switch.zip. I don't remember if it is on wuarchive.wustl.edu or on ftp.cica.indiana.edu. It is easy to use and does the job with no problem. -Eric ebosco@us.oracle.com ",2 "Re: Canadiens - another Stanley Cup??? In rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes: >pereira@CAM.ORG (Dean Pereira) writes: >> With the kind of team Montreal has now, they can take the >>cup easily. The only problem they have right now is that everyone is >>trying to steal the show and play alone. They need some massive teamwork. This is known as the Savard syndrome - and we are talking Denis, not Serge. No team will ever win squat with the likes of Denis Savard in their lineup. >> They are also in a little of a slump because long-time hockey >>Montreal Canadiens announcer Claude Mouton died last tuesday and it was >>rough on everybody because he has worked with the organization for 21 >>years. But I know that is no excuse. But if the Habs manage to get some >>good teamwork and get into the spirit, they should have no problem >>winning in May. They could tell Savard to stay home and watch the games on TV. > I agree. I also think Roy needs a good kick sometimes...that horrible >4-0 loss to the Capitals last week...yeeeech! > Here's to Cup #23...this year! Sounds like #12 to me. cordially, as always, rm -- Roger Maynard maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ",10 "Re: Trivia question In article <1993Apr23.102811.623@sei.cmu.edu> caj@sei.cmu.edu (Carol Jarosz) writes: > >While watching the Penguins/Devils game last night, I saw the ""slash"" that >Barrasso took on the neck. This brought to mind the goaltender who had his >jugular vein cut by a skate. I think he was a Sabre, but I'm not positive. >Does anyone remember/know his name? What has happened to him since? What >about the player whose skate cut the goalie? Name? Info? Has this ever >happened before in a hockey game? > >Thanks, > >Carol >Go Pens! His name is Clint Malarchuk. I'm not sure what he does now but I've heard he's an extra in slasher films. --Brian ",10 "WANTED: OPINIONS ON 75 MG I was wondering if anyone out in net-land have any opinions on MGs in general. I know they are not the most reliable cars around but summer is approaching and they are convertibles `8^). I'm interested in a 75 MG but any opinions on MGs would be appreciated. Thanks. Dave |\ | | | ___________________________/\ /\ /\_____| \|_____| |_____ ___ ___ ___ Dave Kai-Chui Chu \/ \/ | /| | | | | | Dept. of Elec. & Comp. Eng. |/ | | | |-- | |-- Concordia University Voice:(514)848-3115 |___ |___ |___ 1455 de Maisonneuve W. H915 Fax: (514)848-2802 Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3G 1M8 Email:davec@ece.concordia.ca ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",7 "Re: Happy Easter! Karen Black (karen@angelo.amd.com) wrote: : ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck) writes: : >Nick Pettefar (npet@bnr.ca) wrote: : >: English cars:- : > : >: Rover, Reliant, Morgan, Bristol, Rolls Royce, etc. : > ^^^^^^ : > Talk about Harleys using old technology, these : >Morgan people *really* like to use old technology. : Well, if you want to pick on Morgan, why not attack its ash (wood) : frame or its hand-bent metal skin (just try and get a replacement :-)). : I thought the kingpost suspension was one of the Mog's better features. Hey! I wasn't picking on Morgan. They use old technology. That's all I said. There's nothing wrong with using old technology. People still use shovels to dig holes even though there are lots of new powered implements to dig holes with. -- ******************************************************************************* * Bill Ranck (703) 231-9503 Bill.Ranck@vt.edu * * Computing Center, Virginia Polytchnic Inst. & State Univ., Blacksburg, Va. * ******************************************************************************* ",8 "Experiences with Mormons I am looking for experiences people have had with Mormons and your views of Mormonism because of these experiences. I would appreciate only experiences that have happened to you...not friend of a friend stuff. Also, I would like to hear good experiences you might have had with Mormons. I am doing this in the interest of spreading tolerance, so please, no flames. E-mail would be preferred because of the short time for this. Thanks, --Travis -- Travis A. Jensen jensen@peruvian.cs.utah.edu (preferred) jensen@cadehp0.eng.utah.edu (next best) TAJ2206@cc.utah.edu (last resort...expect delays) ",19 "leaking memory resources in 3.1 This may be an FAQ (if so, please direct me to the known answer) but I am getting frustrated and looking for help. I am running Win 3.1 with NDW 2.2 on a 486sx with 8 meg of memory and a 6 meg perm swap file and am getting exceedingly frustrated that my applications are not giving back system resources when I close them. When I load windows I start with about 83% resources available but many of the application programs I run regularly (WPWIN 5.2, VB 2.0, WINQVT 2.8, Lotus Organizer, etc.) seem to not return all their resources when I exit them. After a day or two of work I often find myself down under 50% of available resources even when I have no applications other than my shell running. I am aware this is a known problem; what I am looking for are some suggestions of what I might do to mitigate it. 1. What software is the culprit? Win 3.1, NDW, my applications? Are some modes of Win 3.1 (standard, real, enhanced) better than others at plugging this leak? 2. Are their system.ini switches i can set to help plug this leak? 3. Do people know of patches or third party software that help with this? Seems like increasing or better managing system resources is a great market for a third party memory company like QEMM. 4. If I run Progman instead of NDW will the leak subside? (I was hoping that NDW 2.2 would have plugged this, but it seems no different than 2.0 in how it deals with memory and resources.) 5. When I am writing VB code are there things I can do to make it less likely my code will eat resources? 6. Any other suggestions that I don't know enough to ask for specifically? Thanks for your help. As this is a common problem and I have seen only a little discussion of it on the net there are probably others who would like to read answers so please publish here rather than sending me email. danny =========================================================================== daniel david mittleman - danny@arizona.edu - (602) 621-2932 ",2 "God's promise to the righteous Ps.92:12: ""The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."" Isa.57:1: ""The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."" ",19 "Re: Why not give $1 billion to first year-long moon residents? In article <1993Apr21.150545.24058@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: |In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: | | |In spite of my great respect for the people you speak of, I think their |cost estimates are a bit over-optimistic. If nothing else, a working SSTO |is at least as complex as a large airliner and has a smaller experience |base. It therefore seems that SSTO development should cost at least as |much as a typical airliner development. That puts it in the $3G to $5G |range. > Alan, don't forget, a HUGE cost for airliner developement is FAA certification. the joke is when the paperwork exceeds teh weight of the airplane, it will fly. The SR-71, and teh X-15 both highly ambitious aero-space projects were done on very narrow engineering budgets. Partly because they didn't spend much on paper pushing. There is some company in missouri trying to get funding to build light commercial transporters on a low cost basis, mostly by reducing FAA certification costs. pat ",14 "Re: Eugenics Probably within 50 years, a new type of eugenics will be possible. Maybe even sooner. We are now mapping the human genome. We will then start to work on manipulation of that genome. Using genetic engineering, we will be able to insert whatever genes we want. No breeding, no ""hybrids"", etc. The ethical question is, should we do this? Should we make a race of disease-free, long-lived, Arnold Schwartzenegger-muscled, supermen? Even if we can. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: Israel's Expansion In article hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes: > >You realise of course that all this is purely in the interests of allowing >the US citizen to drive arround in a 6 litre car doing single digit >miles to the gallon? Were the US to act responsibly they cvould be >self sufficient in oil. Why do you have to spoil an intricate tapestry of falsehood with a bald-faced lie? -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu Some news readers expect ""Disclaimer:"" here. Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. (not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice) ",18 "Re: Winfield's spot on THE ALL TIME GREATS TEAM In article drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes: >In article <9729@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes: >>Winfield can't touch Frank Robinson or Mel Ott, as far as I can tell. >>You'd also have a hard time convincing me to rate him better than or >>equal to Clemente. >Two sets of numbers; career equivalent average and equivalent runs > >1. Ruth .377, 2721 >2. Aaron .318, 2808 >3. Ott .318, 2197 >4. Robinson .313, 2245 >7. Clemente .289, 1745 >8. Winfield .288, 1921 > >Ruth is in a class by himself for both rate (eqa) and total (eqr) >performance, Aaron runs over everybody in the total category. Ott and >Robinson, who lead Winfield in both categories, could be safely put >ahead of ahead of him. Reggie too, although he is barely ahead. These >numbers are normalized for league and park. Clemente is held down by >some really anemic offensive production in his earliest years, and was >still productive when he died; it is reasonably safe to assume he had >150-200 runs more he could have gotten. Still, Jackson, Waner, >Clemente, and Winfield form a pretty tight knot. Yes, but (a) we were talking about peak level, not career averages and (b) Clemente was the best fielding RF of all time, as far as anyone can tell I did a quick scan last night, looking for players with a peak comparable to or better than Winfield. In my quick-n-dirty subjective judgement, you could make good cases for Ruth, Aaron, Ott, Robinson, Clemente, Kaline, Maris, Klein, Jackson, Waner, and probably a few others. This is not a knock on Winfield, but a comment on his consistency: all of those other players had awesome stretches and very good stretches, while Winfield has been more uniformly excellent. Hall of Fame? Absolutely. Top-10 peak? I'm not so sure. Top 10 total career value? Yes, almost certainly. -- David M. Tate | My free agent says he will be no one's but mine (dtate+@pitt.edu) | Not even should Steinbrenner himself try to seduce him. Prof. of Story Probs. | He says but what player says to owner; ""The Big Catullus"" | Write it on the wind, or swift-running water. ",9 "Microcom MicroPorte Pocket modem For Sale / hpcc01:comp.dcom.modems / bourman@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Bourman) / 8:59 am Apr 27, 1993 / / hpcc01:comp.dcom.modems / bourman@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Bourman) / 8:51 am Apr 27, 1993 / For Sale 12KBps Microcom MicroPorte 1042 pocket modem New List Price $895 Rechargeable battery pack (in modem) Auto logon, Password security, UUCP and Kermit support, remote access DTLA cellular connection, MNP2-4, V.42 & MNP10 error correction MNP5 & V.42bis data compression Bell 103,212A,V.22,V.22bis & Microcom Turbo Mode 19,200 DTE & 12,000bps DCE speed 9 & 25 pin adapter cable & AC power transformer Make Offer (>$200) Bob Bourman (415) 857-8409 E-Mail bourman@corp.hp.com ---------- ---------- ",6 "Re: hawks vs leafs lastnight In article <1993Apr18.153820.10118@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: >>on all replays, joe murphy's goal shouldn't have counted ! >>the game would have ended in 2-2 tie ! >I thought the red light went on...thus, in the review, the presumption >would be to find conclusive evidence that the puck did not go in the >net...from the replays I say, even from the rear, the evidence wasn't >conclusive that the puck was in or out...in my opinion... I was under the impression that the objective is to find conclusive evidence that the puck _did_ cross the line. And, the replays I saw showed fairly conclusively that the puck did _not_ cross the goal line at any time anyway. Somebody screwed up. dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca ",10 "Re: How hard to change springs on F350 truck? In article <1993Apr3.005245.10615@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes: >Does it take any peculiar tools to remove the rear springs from a Ford >F350 truck? o Naah. Just a coupla nice big bumps. ",7 "emm386 and windows On my PC I almost exclusively run windows. The only dos based application I have is ProcommPlus. In my config.sys I have emm386 loaded with the option noems (no expanded memory). Following a thread in one of the comp newsgroups, I read that it was no necessary to have emm386 loaded. Indeed, in the manual, it says that emm386 is used to get expanded memory out of extended memory. Since I have the noems option, it seems to me that the emm386 device is useless in my case. Should I use emm386 or should I remove it from my config.sys? Thanks for your help, -Eric ",2 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article <1993Apr15.215833.15970@bnr.ca> (Rashid) writes: >> What about the Twelve Imams, who he considered incapable of error >> or sin? Khomeini supports this view of the Twelve Imans. This is >> heresy for the very reasons I gave above. >I would be happy to discuss the issue of the 12 Imams with you, although >my preference would be to move the discussion to another >newsgroup. I feel a philosophy or religion group would be more >appropriate. I think many reading this group would also benefit by knowing how deviant the view _as I've articulated it above_ (which may not be the true view of Khomeini) is from the basic principles of Islam. So that the non-muslim readers of this group will see how far from the simple basics of Islam such views are on the face of them. And if they are _not_ in contradiction with the basics of Islam, how subtle such issues are and how it seems sects exist in Islam while they are explicitly proscribed by the Qur'an. >The topic is deeply embedded in the world view of Islam and the >esoteric teachings of the Prophet (S.A.). Heresy does not enter >into it at all except for those who see Islam only as an exoteric >religion that is only nominally (if at all) concerned with the metaphysical >substance of man's being and nature. In my opinion considering any human being as having a substance or metaphysical fundamentally different from that of any other human being _is_ a heretical notion and one proscribed by Islam. >From your posts, you seem fairly well versed in Sunni thought. You >should seek to know Shi'ite thought through knowledgeable >Shi'ite authors as well - at least that much respect is due before the >charge of heresy is levelled. Absolutely! I would be interested in discussing this privately and I am interested in hearing how one might try to make the concept of error-free and sinless human beings philosophically consistent with the teachings of the Qur'an. However, _prima facie_ such attemptsa are highly susceptible to degenerating into monkery, explicitly proscribed by the Qur'an. >As salaam a-laikum Alaikum Wassalam Gregg ",0 "Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?) In article <1993Apr15.161112.21772@cs.rochester.edu>, fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes: |> I don't think ""extra-scientific"" is a very useful phrase in a discussion |> of the boundaries of science, except as a proposed definiens. Extra-rational |> is a better phrase. In fact, there are quite a number of well-known cases |> of extra-rational considerations driving science in a useful direction. Yeah, but the problem with holding up the ""extra-rational"" examples as exemplars, or as refutations of well founded methodology, is that you run smack up against such unuseful directions as Lysenko. Such ""extra- rational"" cases are curiosities -- not guides to methodology. -- Gary H. Merrill [Principal Systems Developer, C Compiler Development] SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC 27513 / (919) 677-8000 sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com ... !mcnc!sas!sasghm ",13 "Re: Impala SS going into production! In <1993Apr19.193417.18601@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN JONATHAN JAMES) writes: >uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz) writes: >>I personally like the looks of the Impala SS. The Caprice was definately >>weird looking until this year when they made the rear wheel openings look >>more like a normal car, but the Impala impresses me. GM can't exactly shove >>the LT1 in everything they make, you know, only the bigger stuff. I'd like >>to see it next in a 1500 series pickup. That would be a hot setup. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >What about in a full size Blazer as well? Would this engine have the gobs >of torque necessary for off-roading? If so, this would be even better than >the Syclone. Well, an LT1 Blazer wouldn't come close to a GMC Typhoon in speed, I think its too heavy. As it is right now, the normal 210HP 5.7 engine has plenty of power for a full size Blazer. Of course, I'm not saying GM shouldn't put the LT1 in it :). It seems like they have a real winner with that engine. Why spend so much more money into getting a 32 valve DOHC V8 when you can take an LT1? It even seems to get pretty good gas MPG (for a 5.7, that is.) [talking about Impala SS] >Will this be in the 4-door Caprice body? I'm just curious if Chevy is >trying to resurrect their 2-door muscle cars, or to compete with the European >""super sedans."" Yeah, it's a flat black, lowered 4 door Caprice riding on 17"" aluminum rims and Eagle GS-C tires. The rest of the car is basically a Caprice LTZ (read: plush police package) with 300 horsepower. I heard that Chevy is resurrecting the Monte Carlo but that's going to get their 3.4 DOHC V6 and not the LT1. >>Jon Dunn< -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Krenz -- uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu | krenz@engrhub.ucsb.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- ",7 "Re: BATF/FBI revenge >Does anyone have any idea about the size of Waco? I'm just curious because >if it were a small town that may have something to do with it. Possibly not. >It sure didn't take it very long to burn down though. I was watching ABC and >it only took like a little over 30 minutes to burn down. Waco is a city of about 100,000 people. The population temporarily raised to about 102,000 people when all the feds, and state police officers arrived. I tell you what, I stayed in a hotel room about 4 miles from the BD compound around 3 weeks ago. I have never felt more paranoid in my whole life. There were at least 100 state police in the hotel. > >>The claim ""we had the water turned off, so the fire engines had to bring >>their own"" doesn't hold up: If they had cut off the water, they surely >>could have turned it back on just as quickly. They just didn't want to: >>There were some scores to settle. Message to anybody else is very clear: >>""DON'T FUCK WITH US. WE WILL DO YOU IN..."" >> >Not that I am one to believe that everything that the government tells us is >true but if that was the message they wanted to send why did they wait 51 days? >I think the message would be better sent by charging in there right away - not >waiting for 51 days and pounding them with sound, etc. > >>A bunch of dead BD members are not going to be so able to tell their >>side of the story, so now all we have is the story according to the BATF >>and FBI. Also, Mr ""care about the rights of people"" Clinton, or his >>administration approved this action (FBI said 'Washington had approved >>it'). They FBI said the gas masks used by the BDs have a finite life, >>and were close to running out. WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE JUST WAITED? > >Well, there are 9 people supposedly alive. They can tell their story. As far >as Bill Clinton is concerned don't you think he has more pressing matters to >attend to besides some small group of people in Texas? How about Bosnia? Now >there's a problem...... Why couldn't they have waited? They waited too long >as it is. Something should have been done earlier. > >> >>They gov is trying to say it was a mass suicide. In the past they had >>expressed this was a real possibility, but now they decided it wasn't >>a possibility so they could go on with the raid. Apparantly what they >>feel Korash was or was not capable of or going to do was driven by >>what was most convenient at the time... >> >>Now this means that: >> >>1: The public and media will forget about all this - having become weary of >>it. > >This has already happened for many people. > >>2: There will be no investigation (independent or otherwise) or a whitewash. > >Very much a possibility. > >>3: There will be no unsealing of the warrant and related documents. >>4: What anybody will know about this incident will be the BATF version. > >With the way our government is I wouldn't doubt it. > >>5: The BATF has just been given Carte Blanche for further abuses, with >> the effective support and approval of the Administration. > >Clinton said on the news that he knew about what was happening but that it was >all in the hands of the FBI. That is if you choose to believe the media. > >>6: There WILL BE more abuses, with no concern of Administration censure. >>7: The precident has been established that the Feds can kill in quantity >> to achieve their aims. Especially if the target is excercising their >> rights under the Second Amendment, and the rest of the Bill of Rights, >> and is a government-declared un-nice fellow. > >If they had rocket launchers and such (as the press and gov claims) why >shouldn't they have done something? What possible use would a religious cult >have for a rocket launcher? Also, is child abuse covered by the Bill of >Rights? > >> : LLs and CLAMs will be pleased. Dung Tsow Ping(sp) will be pleased. >> Saddam Hussein(sp) will be pleased. Idi Amin would be pleased. Stalin >> would be pleased. Even Hitler would be pleased. Any self-respecting >> despot would nod and say ""Well Done, Bill Clinton!!"" >> >Well, then there are probably a lot of self-respecting despots in the US cause >I'm sure they feel the same way. > >>God Bless America - Land of the Free!!! (past tense). >> >>Well, maybe I AM overreacting. But I see on the TV as I am typing where > >Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of questions that should be raised about >this incident. The problem is, who will do it and be heard? > >>govt spoksewoman (the new attorney general, known to be almost rabid >>about private ownership of guns - wants to ban 'assault guns' and just >>about everything else), is saying the FBI had ""amazing restraint"", then >>falls back into the official goverenment line about how the BD were >>guity of child abuse, and were into it in an on-going basis, and so on. >>Note that according to the Liberal Elite, giving a child a spanking is >>regarded as child abuse (seriously - if it gets known, the STATE can >>take your child away from you if you spank your kid). She also is saying > >Which state is that? The federal government or an individual state government >? > >>CLINTON PERSONALLY APPROVED THIS OPERATION - she ""told him it was >>appropriate and so on, and he SAID OK, DO IT"". Somehow, I am not >>surprised - the people MUST KNOW WHO IS BOSS - WHO IS IN CHARGE!!! >>And it is obviouly no longer the people. >> >It seems to me that the people haven't been in charge for a long time. If they >really were I don't think the government would be doing as many things as it >has in the past. > >>And I maintain the appropriate response, as far as this raid by BATF is >>concerned, regarding child abuse is ""so what?"". BATF are not our Child >>Protective Services Police. Yet. After all the BD had been TRIED on >>that charge before and found NOT GUILTY. The gov't people have pretty >>much gone silent on the terrible illegal guns BD supposedly has, and >>stress the ""continued child abuse"" (apparantly to make it a seem as sort >>of a 'rescue' operation, figuring everyone hates child abusers, and >>anything is OK to use against them). Occasional references to ammunition >>possesed by the BDs and so on is irrelevant: it is NOT ILLEGAL to have >>ammunition (yet). >> >True but is it illegal to have a rocket launcher? > >>Am I having a vain hope that an honest investigation will occur on this >>thing? Or will it simply be whitewashed under the rug, and Business >>as Usual will continue to be the Order of the Day in the New Order? >>Who will be given the official title of ""Thought Police"", I wonder...? >> >>And if Clinton and friends have their way, (highly likely at this point) >>the New Order Government will also have all the guns... So what if >>""1984"" is going to be ten years late... I think we are going to discover >>that we will be paying DEARLY for putting this fellow in office for decades >>to come. Even some die-hard supporters are having serious doubts about >>their Savior. >> >Shit, if people dont get what they want right away there is an instant problem. >Clinton has only been in office for a few months. Give him a chance to get >something done. The guy had a lot of shit thrown in his lap in the beginning. >Give him a chance to work on things a little. As they say - Rome wasn't built >in a day. > >>Yes, I am UPSET. I see NO GOOD as far as civil/individual rights to >>come of any of his proposals/decisions for the last month or so... >>We have really been HAD. Or Bill of Rights is now nothing but a quaint >>curiosity. >> >I highly doubt that it is that bad yet. How about the Rodney King trial? The >two people who were most responsible got the axe. How bad the axe falls tho >is yet to be seen. > >>Anybody for impeachment? >> >Nope. I would prefer to give Bill a little more than four or five months to >solve the nations problems. >>-- >>pat@rwing.uucp [Without prejudice UCC 1-207] (Pat Myrto) Seattle, WA >> If all else fails, try: ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!pat >>WISDOM: ""Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, >> and I am not sure about the former."" - Albert Einstien > >Jason - u28037@uicvm.cc.uic.edu ",16 "Re: McRae is (Re: Torre: The worst manager?) scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis) writes: >KC(?) news was doing a report on that. They said that McRae is >really a batting coach and not a manager. But for some reason >he took the job. Whatever the reason, the Royals need a new >manager now...while it is too late. >-- And have Jesse Jackson picket the stadium? -- Tim Evans | E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co. tkevans@eplrx7.es.dupont.com | Experimental Station (302) 695-9353/7395 | P.O. Box 80357 EVANSTK AT A1 AT ESVAX | Wilmington, Delaware 19880-0357 ",9 "Re: SOC.RELIGION.CHRISTIAN Anni Dozier (dozier@utkux1.utk.edu) wrote: : After reading the posts on this newsgroup for the pasts 4 months, it : has become apparent to me that this group is primarily active with : Liberals, Catholics, New Agers', and Athiests. Someone might think : to change the name to: soc.religion.any - or - perhaps even : soc.religion.new. It might seem to be more appropriate. : Heck, don't flame me, I'm Catholic, gay, and I voted : for Bill Clinton. I'm on your side! Since when did conservative, protestant, old-time religion believers get an exclusive francise to christianity? Christianity is, and always has been, a diverse and contentious tradition, and this group reflects that diversity. I, fo one, am not ready to concede to _any_ group- be they ""liberal"" or ""conservative"", catholic, protestant, or orthodox, charismatic or not- the right to claim that they have _the truth_, and everyone else is not ""christian."" revdak@netcom.com ",15 "Egypt call for fighting fundamentalists, objects to pro-Bosnian steps It seems that Egypt is only interested in fighting wars against its own people, while objecting to any steps for Bosnia.. I am not surprised, WHo said that Mubarak represents Egypt (Hell he does not even represent all the criminals of Egypt) clarinews@clarinet.com (ANWAR IQBAL) writes: > ISLAMABAD (UPI) -- Representatives from 51 Islamic nations were >considering Tuesday a request from Bosnia-Herzegovina for $260 million >and weapons to fight the Bosnian Serbs. .... > The only commitment so far is $20 million from Saudi Arabia, which Thanks Saudia for the pocket change. Compare that to the ""Liberation of Q8"" and to what they gave to some weird causes.. O.K at least they are paying. >has already donated $100 million to Bosnia-Herzegovina. > Sources on the political committee said delegates were in agreement >on the need to help the Bosnian Muslims, but the request for weapons had >delayed a decision. > ``It may interpreted as violating the United Nations' embargo on >supplying arms to Bosnia,'' warned Egyptian Foreign Minister Amer >Moussa. Mr. Amr Moussa was not worried about International law when he tortured to death many of his citizens and when he shot people praying in a Mosque, or when he is causing trouble to his neighbor just becasue the CIA says so. Why doesn't he just shut up, he won't be involved in any Bosnian effort anyway, or does the west have to be represented even in an Islamic conference? The more I hear about the Egyptian regime, the more I understand the existence of the ""Jamaa Islamiyah"" there. After all most of its members and leaders are former and current victims of government torture, injustice, or relatives of victims. In some other places they get psychiatric care AND revenge in the COURTS. But all they got is more of the same resulting in a cycle of madness that is initiated by the government with the illicit support of the west who is more concerned about the safety of half naked tourists in conservative neighborhoods than the dignity, social justice, and safety of the majority of the poor oppressed people of Egypt. Enough said. To all Apologists to the U.S imperialism: watch the movie ""Romero"" (1984) three times in a row, that might help. (or shall I say 13 times?) ",17 "Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!! In article <1993Apr5.191712.7543@inmet.camb.inmet.com> mazur@bluefin.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur) writes: >In <1993Apr03.1.6627@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes: >>Gordon, your experience is valid for many, but not all. The >>fact that you know a few people who have been overweight and are >>now stable at a lower (normal or just less?) weight does not >>contradict the observation that only 5-10 per cent can maintain >>ideal weight with current technology. > >Actually, the observation is that only 5-10% of those who seek help >from your so-called ""diet evangelists"" can maintain their weight. I >happen to agree with Keith Lynch that there are many people who can >and do lose weight on their own, and who are not reflected in the >dismal failure rate that is often quoted. > >Wasn't there a study where a researcher asked a more general population, >perhaps some part of a university community, about weight loss and he/she >found that a much higher percentage had lost and maintained? In fact Adiposity 101 mentions a similar study (search for ""life events"" in any recent version of Adiposity 101). The problem with anecdotal reports about individuals who have lost weight and kept it off is that we don't know what caused the weight gain in the first place. This is critical because someone who gains weight because of something temporary (drug effect, life event, etc.) may appear successful at dieting when the weight loss was really the result of reversing the temporary condition that caused the weight gain. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf Author of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ Omen Technology Inc ""The High Reliability Software"" 17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD Portland OR 97231 503-621-3406 ",13 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr21.045548.17418@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st922957@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Arnold Schwarzenweisengreenbluenbraunenburger) writes: > Y'know, when the right to bear arms was ""invented"", all we had to worry > about was the shotgun and pistol. Now, we have to worry about drive-bys > with Uzis sparaying the entire neighborhood with bullets. 'Scuse me, I'm over here. The large, rotund thing you're addressing is a replica of Thomas Jefferson's private cannon. Followups to t.p.g. -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",16 "Re: Available memory to the Xserver. How to get the actual size? In article <1965@igd.fhg.de>, pfuetz@igd.fhg.de (Matthias Pfuetzner) writes: > Is there a possibility to determine via X protocol calls the size of > free memory available to the Xserver? No. Even if you could, the answer could be out of date even before you get it (even if you grab the server, it could be taken up by buffering user actions). You should just try to do whatever you want; a BadAlloc error is your indication that insufficient server memory is available. der Mouse mouse@mcrcim.mcgill.edu ",5 "thinning algorithm Hi, netters I am looking for source code that can reads the ascii file or bitmap file and produced the thinned image. For example, to preprocess the character image I want to apply thinning algorithm. thanks kevin . ",1 "Re: Christian Morality is In article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes: > >The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. >But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love >you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to >love you. ... There's a difference between believing in the existence of an entity, and loving that entity. God _could_ show me directly that he exists, and I'd still have a free choice about whether to love him or not. So why doesn't he? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kevin Anthoney kax@cs.nott.ac.uk Don't believe anything you read in .sig files. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",0 "Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism In article <1993Apr5.020504.19326@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes: [...] >One of the reasons that you are atheist is that you limit God by giving >God a form. God does not have a ""face"". Wait a minute. I thought you said that Allah (I presume Allah == God) was unknowable, and yet here you are claiming to know a very concrete fact about him. You say that God does not have a ""face"". Doesn't the bible say that God has hindparts? How do you suggest I decide which (if any) of you is right? Or are you both right? God has hindparts but no face? Or does your use of quotation marks: God does not have a ""face"". allow you to interpret this to mean whatever you like? > >Peace, > >Bobby Mozumder -Norman ",0 "Re: was:Go Hezbollah!! In article , mafifi@eis.calstate.edu (Marc A Afifi) writes: |> Don't forget that it was the French Resistance to the |> Nazi occupying forces which eventually succeeded in driving out the |> hostile occupiers in WWII. Actually, this is incorrect. French resistance may have played some part in hindering the German war effort, however the crucial role was supplied on D-Day. |> Diplomacy has not worked with Israel and the |> Lebanese people are tired of being occupied! They are now turning to the |> only option they see as viable. (Don't forget that it worked in driving |> out the US) Interesting statement. Especially when you consider that Lebanon had claimed to have made progress in the peace talks, as well as Israel. Of course, one of the prime obstacles to Israel's complete withdrawal is the lack of governmental control that can be applied to the area as well as the large presence of Syrian forces which have not been asked to withdraw as well. -- Shai Guday | Stealth bombers, OS Software Engineer | Thinking Machines Corp. | the winged ninjas of the skies. Cambridge, MA | ",17 """XIO: fatal IO error 22"" problem Posted for a friend without posting access (but with e-mail access...) ---------------------------- Help, anyone! I have a X client that is abnormally terminated with the following message: XIO: fatal IO error 22 (Invalid argument) on X server ""xxxxx:0.0"" after 10058 requests (10057 known processed) with 78 events remaining. It has been known to occur when displaying on the Xsun (X11R4) server. It occurs with a higher frequency when the client displays on the Xdomain (X11R4) server running on DomainOS 10.3.5 on an Apollo. Anybody know why this may be happening? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Reply-To: has been set to me. I'll summarize to the net. Doug Leary REDARS Software Development Boeing Computer Services dcl@luey.ca.Boeing.COM -- Tim Gentry Boeing Computer Services gentry@bcstec.ca.boeing.com This posting in no way officially represents the opinions of Boeing, Boeing Computer Services -- or possibly even the poster, for that matter. ",5 "Re: There is a good deal more confusion here. You started off with the >assertion that there was some ""objective"" morality, and as you admit >here, you finished up with a recursive definition. Murder is >""objectively"" immoral, but eactly what is murder and what is not itself >requires an appeal to morality. Yes. >Now you have switch targets a little, but only a little. Now you are >asking what is the ""goal""? What do you mean by ""goal?"". Are you >suggesting that there is some ""objective"" ""goal"" out there somewhere, >and we form our morals to achieve it? Well, for example, the goal of ""natural"" morality is the survival and propogation of the species. Another example of a moral system is presented within the Declaration of Independence, which states that we should be guaranteed life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You see, to have a moral system, we must define the purpose of the system. That is, we shall be moral unto what end? >>Murder is certainly a violation of the golden rule. And, I thought I had >>defined murder as an intentional killing of a non-murderer, against his will. >>And you responded to this by asking whether or not the execution of an >>innocent person under our system of capital punishment was a murder or not. >>I fail to see what this has to do with anything. I never claimed that our >>system of morality was an objective one. >I thought that was your very first claim. That there was >some kind of ""objective"" morality, and that an example of that was >that murder is wrong. If you don't want to claim that any more, >that's fine. Well, murder violates the golen rule, which is certainly a pillar of most every moral system. However, I am not assuming that our current system and the manner of its implementation are objectively moral. I think that it is a very good approximation, but we can't be perfect. >And by the way, you don't seem to understand the difference between >""arbitrary"" and ""objective"". If Keith Schneider ""defines"" murder >to be this that and the other, that's arbitrary. Jon Livesey may >still say ""Well, according to my personal system of morality, all >killing of humans against their will is murder, and wrong, and what >the legal definition of murder may be in the USA, Kuweit, Saudi >Arabia, or the PRC may be matters not a whit to me"". Well, ""objective"" would assume a system based on clear and fundamental concepts, while ""arbitary"" implies no clear line of reasoning. keith ",0 "Re: Wounded Redbirds In article 1@acad.drake.edu, sbp002@acad.drake.edu () writes: >Does anyone know the status of Jeffries or Arocha? Arocha broke his finger trying to field a ground ball. He was put on the DL after the game and may require surgery. I don'y know about Jefferies ",9 "Re: How to the disks copy protected. > noeler@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (Eric Richard Noel) writes: > > [Discussion on Piracy Deleted] > > Off deeper end-> Why does everyone think they need to be able to make a > backup copy? Almost all new software must be installed to the hard disk, > so you are left with the originals as your backups. I think its a waste > of time, space, and money, as well as it makes it to tempting to ""lend"" > out the backups. > My own practice with new software : make a copy of the original floppies to a second set of floppies. install to hard drive from second set of floppies. put originals in a box in room number one. put copies in box in room number two. 1) Accidents DO happen to original floppies. 2) Accidents CAN happen to the installation floppy. 3) Sometimes software goes out on floppies that are JUST marginally good. Or gets too close to a magnet in shipping or storage. I've had experience with SOMETHING like the last. I purchased a compiler from a reputable vendor. THe debugger in the package just would NOT install to the hard drive. NO WAY. Repeated floppy-to-floppy copies FINALLY got a clean read of the disk. I DON'T recall if I used ""diskcopy"", ""copy/b"", or ""xcopy"". I made a second copy of the marginal floppy and installed from that. No problenms ( except with my typing :-) ) since. I regard backup floppies as CHEAP insurance. Just my side of the question... Bob ",12 "Re: Boom! Dog attack! ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) writes: >Riding up the hill leading to my >house, I encountered a liver-and-white Springer Spaniel (no relation to >the Springer Softail, or the Springer Spagthorpe, a close relation to >the Spagthorpe Viking). I must have missed the article on the Spagthorpe Viking. Was that the one with the little illuminated Dragon's Head on the front fender, a style later copied by Indian, and the round side covers? [accident deleted] >What worries me about the accident is this: I don't think I could have >prevented it except by traveling much slower than I was. This is not >necessarily an unreasonable suggestion for a residential area, but I was >riding around the speed limit. You can forget this line of reasoning. When an animal decides to take you, there's nothing you can do about it. It has something to do with their genetics. I was putting along at a mere 20mph or so, gravel road with few loose rocks on it (as in, just like bad concrete), and 2200lbs of swinging beef jumped a fence, came out of the ditch, and rammed me! When I saw her jump the fence I went for the gas, since she was about 20 feet ahead of me but a good forty to the side. Damn cow literally chased me down and nailed me. No damage to cow, a bent case guard and a severely annoyed rider were the only casualties. If I had my shotgun I'd still be eating steak. Nope, if 2200lbs of cow can hit me when I'm actively evading, forget a much more manueverable dog. Just run them over. < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > ",8 "Memory upgrades Excuse me if this is a frequent question, I checked in several FAQs but couldn't really find anything. I have a IIsi with the standard 5 meg memory and I want (need) to add additional memory. But I'm on a budget. I really don't need more than 10 meg max, so what is the best (performance wise) and most economical way to do this? Someone told me that I should only use SIMMs of the same amount of memory, that is 4 1 meg, 4 2 meg, etc. What if I just wanted to buy just 1 4 meg and use the rest of what I already have? The manual hasn't been very helpful with this. Thanks. (Respond via e-mail if it isn't worth the bandwidth.) ____________________________________________________________________ ""common human laws and interests ""I wouldn't exactly call it a and emotions have no validity a happy dogma, but it makes me or signifigance in the vast feel better about not cosmos-at-large..."" getting laid..."" -HP Lovecraft -R. Carter ____________________________________________________________________ ______ ______ __ | /\ ___\ /\ ___\ /\ \ jacob@sunspot.ssl.berkeley.edu | \ \___ \\ \___ \\ \ \___ | \/\_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\ | \/_____/ \/_____/ \/_____/ ",4 "85 Mazda GLC for Sale 85'Mazda GLC - 58K miles - charcoal grey, 4-dr - automatic transmission - A/C , Stereo System with 4-way speaker - rear window defrost, cruise control - New water pump, front tires, headlight, heat shield. - 1 year old battery and transmission. - Well Maintained with all Records of purchase and service. - Inspection done in Feb'93 - Good Condition - Reason for selling : Moving out of Austin. $ 2500.00 (negotiable) Must see to appreciate. call or leave message on answering machine at 477-9429 or email to sc@che.utexas.edu -- Sulagna Chatterjee_________________________________________________ Department of Chemical Engineering :sc@che.utexas.edu University of Texas @ Austin, TX 78712 :chcu327@bongo.cc.utexas.edu ____________________________________________________________________ ",6 "Re: Happy Birthday Israel! In article <1993Apr27.011549.7010@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> hamid@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Hamid Reza Mohammadi Daniali) writes: > >In article , eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: > >|> Israel - Happy 45th Birthday! >|> > >Anybody has any information about the number of the people have been killed >by Israel during these 44 HAPPY YEAR? > >Hamid What's this? Another idiot from McRCIM.McGill.EDU? Or are these all the same dope using different accounts? -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "How to make this illuminating thing? In some hobby shop, they sell a flexible tube (1/4-inch diameter, 18-inch ling) that will illuminate if you bend or shake it (it is also sold in amusement parks in the evenings). The brightness can last 2 to 4 hours. If it is left in refrigrator (in coldness), you can prolong its life of illumination. Is this something we can make ourself easily? Or, do you know any reading can provide details about this stuff? Working with kids, it would be nice if it can be a do-it-yourself project with minimum budget. ",11 "ATTN: 160,165c,180 and DUO owners!!! Be very careful when you plug in a external monitor and a external speaker. Make sure that all the power cords are in the same strip. If you don't you take a chance of having a very bad audio buzz. This is caused be a ""ground loop"" and the only way of getting rid of this loud buzz is to make sure that you have a common ground. Make sure that all the power cords are going in to the same strip or off the same outlet. This will assure you of a common ground. Tim Keanini Sound Designer Broderbund Software ",4 "Brad Hernlem vs. principle In his neverending effort to make sure that we do not forget what a moron he is, Brad Hernlem has asked why Israel rarely abides by UN Security Council resolutions. Perhaps the list below might answer the question. Incident Security Council Response ------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Hindu-Moslem clash in INdia, over 2,000 killed, 1990 NONE 2. Gassing to death of over 8,000 Kurds by NONE Iraqi Air Force, 1988-89 3. Saudi security forces slaughter NONE 400 pilgrims in Mecca, 1987 4. Killing by Algerian army of 500 demonstrators, 1988 NONE 5. Intrafada (Arabs killing Arabs) -- over 300 killed NONE 6. 30,000 civilians slaughtered by government NONE troops in Hama, Syria, 1982 7. Killing of 5,000 Palestinians by Jordanian troops, NONE thousands expelled, Sept., 1970 8. 87 Moslems killed in Egypt, 1981 NONE 9. 77 killed in Egyption bread riots, 1977 NONE 10. 30 border and rocket attacks against Israel by NONE the PLO in 1989 alone 11. Munich, 1972: 11 Israeli athletes slaughtered NONE 12. Ma'alot, 1974: children killed in PLO attack NONE 13. Israel Coastal bus attack: 34 dead, 82 wounded NONE 14. Syria kills 23,000 Palestinians, 1976 NONE 15. Lebanon: over 150,000 dead since 1975 NONE 16. Yemen: 13,000 killed in two weeks, 1986 NONE 17. Sudan: Tens of thousands of Black slaves, NONE Civil War toll, 1 million killed, 3 million refugees 18. Tienenman Square massacre 1989 NONE 19. Rumania, 3,000 killed, 1989 NONE 20. Pan Am 103 disaster carried out by the P.L.O NONE 21. Northern Ireland NONE 22. Cambodia NONE 23. Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan NONE 24. American riots at Attica, Watts, Newark, Kent State NONE 25. 1981: Israel destroys Iraqi reractor, Israel CONDEMNED 26. 1990: Israeli police protect Israeli worshipers CONDEMNED against Arab mob, 18 anti-Jewish rioters killed 27. Syrian soldiers slaughter Christian soldiers NONE after they surrender, 1990 It appears that Brad Hernlem and the United Nations Security Council have something in common. They both seem unfettered by the demands of acting on principle. ",17 "Human Habitale Planets? Habital planets are also dependent on what kind of plant life can be grown.. and such.. Length of growing season (that is if you want something more than VAT food, argh, Id ratehr eat an MRE for along period of time). I know in Fairbanks (Furbanks to some) the winter can get to -60 or so F, but in the summer can get to +90 and such.. I know of worse places.. Incans and Sherpa and other low pressure atmosphere and such are a limit in human adaptability(someone mentioend that Incan woman must come to lower elevations to have babies brought to term? true?) I remember a book by Pourrnelle I think that delt with a planet was lower density air.. I wonder what the limit on the other end of atmospheres? I am limiting to human needs and stresses and not alien possibilties.. Thou aliens might be more adapted to a totally alien to human environment, such as the upper atmosphere of Jupiter or?? Almost makes bio-engineered life easy... == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ",14 "Re: Information needed... yjwon@deca.cs.umn.edu (Youjip Won) writes: > Hi! This is my first time to post on this news group. Now a days , I have stu > There is a engine warning signal on the dash board. While driving, this si > I wanna know how the engine warning signal comes. Is anybody out there who > Low oil pressure, usually. Could be your oil pump, or... checked your oil lately??? MC mchase@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Mark Chase) The Old Frog's Almanac (Home of The Almanac UNIX Users Group) (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Vancouver Island, British Columbia Waffle XENIX 1.64 ",7 "Re: Some more about gun control... In article , jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John Lawrence Rutledge) writes: > >So the phrase ""the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall >not be infringed"" must either qualify or explain the phrase ""a well >regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state."" [stuff deleted] >Since ""the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be >infringed"" does not describe, modify or make less harsh anything and >it has nothing to do with grammar or some sort of position or task. >By process of elimination it must fall into definition #3. And since >#3 deals with legal power, the same thing the Constitution does, it >must be the correct definition in this case. Therefore, ""the right >of the people to keep and bear Arms"" gives legal power to the ""well >regualated militia"" and this legal power ""shall not be infringed"". Ah, clarification by obfuscation. Actually, the words ""A well regulated Milita, being necessary to the security of a free state"" is a present participle, used as an adjective to modify 'militia', which is followed by the main clause of the sentence, the subject being 'the right', the verb 'shall'. It asserts that the right to keep and bear arms is essential for maintaining a milita. The sentence doesn't restrict the right, or state or imply possession of the right by anyone or anything other than the people. All it does is make a positive statement regarding a right of the people. The PEOPLE, as in you and me, as in the First, Fourth, Ninth, Tenth, as well as the Second amendment. The existence of this right is assumed - it is not granted by the amendment. There is no stated or implied condition relating the right to bear arms to the necessity of a well-regulated militia to the security of a free state. In other words, the entire sentence says that the right to keep and bear arms is UNCONDITIONAL. >So in effort not to force my views and not ""to destory our Liberties and >Rights,"" I state that nothing I have written, or will write, in >the matter of ""Liberties and Rights"" is the final word. For I am only >one person among many and the final word on ""Liberties and Rights"" cleary >and irrevocably belongs to the many. The final word on liberties and rights should not belong ""to the many"". That is why we have a Constitution. Otherwise, a tyrrany of the majority can ensue from ""popular"" opinion, a concept which you should be familiar with from the Federalist papers. Al [standard disclaimer] ",16 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1993Apr21.180216.7431@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes: >In article goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes: >>In article <1993Apr20.210651.5687@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes: >>>>Although I'm an atheist, the events in Waco have really sickened me. It's >>>>truely a sad day for religious freedom in this country. The Branch >>>>Dividians may have been nutty (my general opinion of all religious people), >>>>but tax evasion and illegal possesion of firearms are certainly not grounds >>>>for destroying a people. >>> >>>Excuse me? WHO destroyed the BD's? Last I knew, they burned themselves... >> >> Where did you get this information? The FBI stated they were not >> aware of any mass suicide plans, ditto Koresh's attorneys who appeared >> on Larry King's Live yesterday, and the survivors claim the fire was started >> from the outside... > >So what if the FBI wasn't aware of suicide plans? That means that BD's had no plans to commit suecide. This may not even be an >]accurate statement, anyway, since the last report of listening devices used >in the compound may reveal new information. We'll have to wait. Are you saying the FBI may have actually received information that BD's were going to burn themselves alive and did not stop the assault? Even if that were true, you gotta be kidding if you expect them to release that kind of information to the public. > And what did you expect Koresh's attorneys to say? Their credibility >is shot anyway, since they *origianlly* said that Koresh was going to surrender >after the Passover. We saw how accurate that was. That's not what Koresh's attorney said on Larry King's Live. He said that Koresh was not going to come out before the Passover, and that he and his leutenant were ""working day and night"" on some kind of religious manuscript (something about the Seven Seals) and that once they finished they would come out. K.'s attorney also said that the day before the assault an armored vehicle delivered typewriter supplies to the compound, and that the FBI promised many times there would not be another attack, that the matters would be resolved peacefully. > And the survivors claim the fire was started from the outside. Outside >meaning outside the compound? No, they meant that BD's did not set the place on fire. Yes, the FBI reported seeing two people >(according to CNN reports) using torches to set the compound on fire. They >were outside. That was the initial claim, but I do not believe it has been repeated since. Anyway, I'd like to see a tape. The FBI surely videotaped the whole operation. All conversations must have been recorded too. How come the two were not shot by the FBI snipers? > > Either way, I have evidence to support the theory that the BD's burned >themselves. What evidence? > You made a serious implication that the FBI was responsible >for the fire and the ""destruction of the people"". > All you have done is >put doubt on who started the fire without providing any evidence to back >up your claim that the FBI was responsible. That is what the survivors claim. I'd like to see some evidence that people that everyone agrees were not going to commit suecide actually did it. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",19 "Re: Panther's President In article <1993Apr20.180241.10263@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: >The San Jose Sharks and Ottawa Senators are each on their second GM >already...I'd be willing to wager that both the Sharks and Senators >will probably see their 3rd GM's and perhaps their 4th, before we >see the Panthers second. Actually, fired-coach George Kingston was a third of the GM triumvirate. Now that the trio is now duo (Dean Lombardi and Chuck Grillo), the Sharks are already on their 3rd ""office of the GM"". And a 4th is likely to happen before September; they'll either add the new coach to the OofGM, or name a single GM. So your wager should be amended to read that Sharks are likely to have their 5th GM before the Panther's get their 2nd. Can't wait to see how the next season's NHL Guide and Record Book lists the GM history of the Sharks. Given the depth of next year's draft, the expansion draft rules, and the reputation of their GMs, Anaheim and Miami look pretty good as the first 90s expansion teams to win a Cup. San Jose and Ottawa have instability at the GM position, something that Philly, NYI, Edmonton, and Calgary did not have when they won their first Cups. Pittsburgh did, but they needed a quarter century. -- Mike Eisler, mre@Eng.Sun.Com ``Not only are they [Leafs] the best team, but their fans are even more intelligent and insightful than Pittsburgh's. Their players are mighty bright, too. I mean, he really *was* going to get his wallet back, right?'' Jan Brittenson 3/93, on Leaf/Pen woofers in rec.sport.hockey ",10 "Re: Gun Control (was Re: We're Mad as Hell at the TV News) In article manes@magpie.linknet.com (Steve Manes) writes: >: That's all very well and good, but I was refering to all >: homocides, not just ones involving handguns (what is this fixation >: on death by shooting, as if it were somehow worse than death >: by stabbing?) >What relevance are ALL homicides in this debate?... >The issue is guns, not baseball bats. No. The issue is reducing crime, not guns. If gun control doesn't lower crime overall, then is doesn't address the issue. >...Even a simpleton knows that >he stands a better chance of surviving an attack with a baseball bat... Does that matter if assaults with a baseball bat become much more common? Muggers using a gun rely primarily on the threat of the gun, and rarely shoot their victim. A mugger using a knife is much more likely to start by stabbing his victim in an effort incapacitate him. So, while a knif may not be as deadly as a gun, criminals are more likely to actually _use_ the knife (as opposed to threatening the victim with it.) It isn't at all clear that replacing the criminal's gun with a knife would reduce murders. Stabbings might just become more common. That's why it is important to look at the overall (not the with-gun) homicide rate. It avoids the issue of substitution, different criminal techinques of using different weapons, etc... and measures what we want to prevent: Murders. >As for knives, see my earlier post. I'd much rather face a knife >than a gun, thanks. ""Face""? Possibly. However, facing knife-welding attackers isn't too common: Stabbing without warning and by supprise is the usual tactic. Very few criminals shoot from cover: It attracts to much attention and they don't have a chance to go through your pockets. Overall, I'd much rather be threatened with a gun than actually stabbed with a knife. >...Fortunately, the best defense against a knife isn't >another knife. Anyone trained in unarmed self-defense won't have >much of a problem disarming a knife assailant untrained in knife >assault (which probably means 99.9% of knife assailants). Actually, the exact same statement is true of guns: Training in unarmed self-defence will let you disarm an untrained gunman without much problem. You also ignore the criminal's reaction: The National Crime Survey clearly shows that criminals (unarmed, armed with a knife, gun or whatever) are unwilling to risk their lives in a confrontation. If faced with a serious threat, almost all prefer to leave and find an easier target. Therefore, using (or threatening to use, as is much more commonly the case) a weapon _is_ the best defence against an attacker, regardless of how he is armed. Knives, however, are much less effective than guns: Criminals don't consider knifes as a ""serious threat"" nearly as often as they do guns. Frank Crary CU Boulder ",16 "Re: Rumours about 3DO ??? >>>>> ""Archer"" == Archer (Bad Cop) Surly (archer@elysium.esd.sgi.com) Archer> How about ""Interactive Sex with Madonna""? or ""Sexium"" for short. /Lars -- Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things. -- Calvin ",1 "Licensing..... >This thread brings up the more general question. Can any crypto >implementation for which highly publicly scrutinized source code is not >available EVER be trusted? After IBM had invented the DES and the NBS had advertised for proposals, but before IBM had decided to respond, I argued strenuously that they should not; they should keep it proprietary. The biggest proponent of proposing was Dr. Lewis Branscomb. Dr. Branscomb was the IBM Chief Scientist and had come to IBM from NBS. Fortunately for all of us, Dr. Branscomb understood the answer to the above question much better than I. He realized how difficult it would be to gain acceptance for any cryptographic mechanism. Because of the necessary complexity, publicity would not be sufficient and neither would authority. In fact, it has taken both of those plus more than 15 years. We have also had independence. The DES was solicited by NBS, invented and proposed by IBM, and vetted by NBS. It has also been examined and vetted by experts like Adi Shamir, who are not subject to influence by any of these. Even now, there are still people posting on this list who do not trust the DES in spite of all the time, all of the analysis, and all of the public scrutiny. (Of course, it is just this point that NIST misses when it attempts to gain acceptance for a novel mechanism, developed in secret, on the basis of authority alone.) We had a long thread here about whether or not the NSA can ""break"" the DES. That is a silly question. At some cost and in some time they can ""break"" anything. The important question is at what cost and in what time. The fundamental strength of the DES and RSA are not nearly so important as what we know about their strength. As long as we understand the cost and duration for an attacker, then we can use them in a safe way. At this point, we may never replace either because of the inability of any successor to overcome this knowledge gap. DES and RSA are among the most significant inventions of the century and the most important inventions in the history of cryptography. We are damned lucky to have them. William Hugh Murray, Executive Consultant, Information System Security 49 Locust Avenue, Suite 104; New Canaan, Connecticut 06840 1-0-ATT-0-700-WMURRAY; WHMurray at DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL ",11 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: > Simple. Take out some physics books, and start looking for statements which > say that there is no objective physics. I doubt you will find any. You > might find statements that there is no objective length, or no objective > location, but no objective _physics_? Perhaps you have a different understanding of what ""physics"" is. If we can't measure anything objectively, then the answers we get from physics aren't objective either. That's what I mean when I say there's no objective physics. Sure, we can all agree that (say) F = GMm/r^2, but that's maths. It's only physics when you relate it to the real world, and if we can't do that objectively, we're stuck. (Of course, this displays my blatant bias towards applied science; but even theoretical physics gets applied to models of real world situations, based on real world observations.) > (Consider, for instance, that speed-of-light-in- > vacuum is invariant. This sounds an awful lot like an objective > speed-of-light-in-vacuum.) It's an axiom that it's invariant. But if the two of us measure it, we'll get different answers. Yes, we call that experimental error, but it's not really ""error"" in the conventional sense; in fact, if you don't get any, that's an error :-) You could argue that the value of c is ""objective, to within +/- "". But I'd call that a rather odd usage of the word ""objective"", and it opens the way for statements like ""Murder is objectively wrong for all people, to within 1% of the total population."" mathew ",0 "rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists: how to set up your own Archive-Name: rec-autos/part6 [New article as of 4 February 1993 -- rpw] Many people want to set up mailing lists for their favorite automotive topics; rather fewer know how to do it. This article will provide the essential information for doing so on standard Unix systems. A shell script and examples of alias file setups are included which presently run on a Sparc 2 here at balltown.cma.com for a number of mailing lists. Note that if you do set up an automotive mailing list, please let me know of the -request address so that I can list it in the montly rec.autos posting. Also inform the keeper of the Usenet list-of-lists (check news.answers for this monthly posting.) First of all, to get anywhere, you need to either 1) be a sysadmin, or 2) have some measure of assistance from your sysadmin. It is also important that you have reasonably good network connectivity; if it seems like you get everything several days after anyone else, or that you have trouble getting email through, then your network connectivity is probably not good enough. Listserv: There is a handy automated mailing list package named listserv, which is available from several ftp servers on the network. Details of the installation and operation of listserv are beyond the scope of this article, but anyone who is considering running a large mailing list should probably look at listserv carefully. The Alias file: On a typical unix system; there is a file named /usr/lib/aliases on whichever file server is your mail host; it contains lines such as: foo: bar, baz, bletch which means that any email sent the name `foo' on that host is redistributed to users bar, baz, and bletch. thus, the simplest possible email list is my-favorite-car: member1, member2, member3, my-address my-favorite-car-request: my-address this has a couple of problems; the most noticeable one being that you have to be superuser to edit the alias file. however, you can do the following, with the connivance of your sysadmin: my-favorite-car: :include:/home/mydir/misc/autos/my-favorite-car-list my-favorite-car-request: my-address Where the file specified is a list of comma and newline separated addresses. This file can be in the list admin's home directory, owned by the list admin. Bounced Mail: this still has a problem; bounced mail usually gets distributed to all the members of the list, which is generally considered somewhat irritating. Therefore, the way that the driving school mailing list is set up is instructive (Thanks to harpal chohan of the bmw list for this setup, by the way. I'm not sure where he got it from.) school-request: welty school-rebroadcast: :include:/home/newwelty/misc/autos/school/list school: ""|/usr/local/adm/bin/explscript school"" owner-school: school-request owner-school-out: school-request here's what is going on here: the owner- and -request addresses are intended as traps for bounced mail coming from the network. the -request address also serves as the point of contact for administrative duties. school is what people send mail to; instead of pointing at addresses, it points at a shell script which rewrites headers before resending the email. school-broadcast (of which nobody except me knows the name; the name has been changed here to protect my own sanity) points at the actual list members. the shell script i use is as follows: ----------------- #!/bin/sh cd /tmp sed -e '/^Reply-To:/d' -e '/^Sender:/d' -e '/^From /d' | \ (echo Reply-To: ${1}@balltown.cma.com; \ echo Errors-To: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \ echo Sender: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \ cat -) | \ /usr/lib/sendmail -om -f ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com \ -F ""The ${1} Mailing List"" ${1}-rebroadcast exit 0 ------------------- note that this script does not know the name of the list; the name is passed in from outside, so that the script may be used for multiple lists (i run several out of this site.) the script excises Reply-To:, Sender:, and From lines from the incoming message, substitutes for Sender: and Reply-To:, and adds Errors-to: 99.9% of all email bounce messages end up being sent to the -request or owner- addresses if this header rewrite is done. For digested lists, there is some digestification software around. Hopefully I'll be able to provide more information in a future version of this posting. richard welty (welty@balltown.cma.com) -- richard welty 518-393-7228 welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com ``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of a race car about either its pitch or roll axis'' -- Carroll Smith ",7 "Re: Building a UV flashlight jhawk@panix.com (John Hawkinson) writes: > My main question is the bulb: where can I get UV bulbs? Do they > need a lot of power? etc., etc. he ones I have seen are all fluorescent tubes. Maybe you could find a small tube to go in one of those hand-held fluoro lanterns? > One other thing: a friend of mine mentioned something about near-UV > light being cheaper to get at than actual UV light. Does anyone > know what he was referring to? Blue lights. Ultra-violet (by definition?) goes from the blue end of the spectrum that people see to the radio spectrum (X-rays, cosmic rays etc). possibly you could get light at the fringe of visibility (which people with false eye-lenses can see easily, since it's your lenses that soak up most of the UV), however since most people use UV to get other things to `glow', and the near-blue is less energetic, it would probably not work as well, if it worked at all. (lecture on basic atomic physics fits in here, about electron transitions (quantum leaps) and stuff. moz ",12 "Re: Defensive Runs from DA (comments) In article <1qvdrnINNd9f@gap.caltech.edu> shippert@cco.caltech.edu (Tim Shippert) writes: > The reason I bothered doing this DR stuff was to see if I could >determine the answer to the age-old question: ""Is Jeff Blauser more >valuable than Rafael Belliard"". Well, it looks like, just as Doug trumped Tim, beating him to the net with his defensive analyses, so Tim has gotten in ahead of me. The way I was doing it was a little different. Being me, of course, I used equivalent averages to work out how many runs a player was worth, and I calculated both rate of performance (fielding equivalent average) and total performance (fielding equivalent runs). But I compared, not to the average player, but the replacement player, and here's why: because the positional adjustment comes built in to the system. In the AL of 1992, the average SS is 32.9 runs above replacement (RAR); cf, 31.6; 2B, 28.8; 3B, 26.3; LF, 26.0; RF, 24.6; 1B, 16.9. We may quibble with the exact numbers, but the order looks substantially right. In the equivalent average, I have always set league average to .235. I had decided in hitting that the replacement level batter has an eqa of .180; the name of that replacement level hitter, often as not, is ""Billy Ripken"". I decided to let the replacement level fielder be the same distance from .235 as .180, but in the opposite direction as I have set it up; that makes for an eqa of .280. (Yes, I can add. Runs are proportional to eqa squared; the difference between 180 squared and 235 squared equals the difference to 279 squared, and I rounded off for simplicity). An all-replacement fielding team would have: Randy Milligan at first (.282), Willie Randolph (.269) at second, Leo Gomez (.279) at third, Walt Weiss (.269) at short, Kevin Bass (.271) in left, HoJo (.257) in center, and Eric Anthony (.277) in right. Ugh. So, the total number of RAR for a player is the sum of his batting and fielding RAR. I can rate them by total RAR, or RAR per some number of batting outs, like 400. An average player has a total RAR of about 55, 30 batting, 25 fielding. Total RAR (bat/field) 1. Bonds 152 (124/28) Ventura 124 (66/58) 2. Sandberg 143 (88/55) Thomas 122 (110/12) 3. Van Slyke 122 (91/31) Anderson 109 (75/34) 4. Grace 114 (70/44) Raines 100 (68/32) 5. Lankford 111 (76/35) Puckett 98 (76/22) 6. Pendleton 108 (71/37) Alomar 98 (75/23) 7. Finley 104 (70/34) Martinez E 97 (81/16) 8. Bagwell 101 (73/28) Mack 93 (70/23) 9. Butler 96 (74/22) McGwire 93 (79/14) 10 Sheffield 96 (85/11) Griffey 92 (70/22) 11 Larkin 96 (65/31) Devereaux 89 (56/34) 12 Grissom 95 (57/38) Henderson 88 (66/23) 13 Walker 94 (61/33) Listach 87 (50/37) 14 Justice 92 (52/40) Lofton 85 (46/39) 15 W. Clark 91 (73/18) Baerga 83 (55/28) 16 Kruk 82 (78/ 4) D. White 79 (39/40) 17 O. Smith 80 (46/34) Palmeiro 76 (54/22) 18 Gwynn 80 (47/33) Sierra 76 (52/24) 19 Hollins 80 (68/12) Carter 73 (57/17) 20 J. Bell 79 (42/37) Gonzalez 73 (60/13) Notable entries in a per-400 batting out rating, NL: top 7 are Bonds, 177, LF; Sandberg, 130, 2b; Van Slyke, 114, cf; Grace, 107, 1b; Larkin, 102, ss; Justice, 99, rf; Sheffield, 99, 3B. One at each position measured! McGriff, despite +85 batting RAR, fifth in league, finishes out of the top 20 due to a -13 in fielding. Last by position: Galarraga 39, Stillwell -10, Hansen 30, Belliard 30 (Blauser gad a 69, 3rd in league), May 43, Dascenzo 34, Anthony 38. In the AL, much-maligned Rickey Henderson was worth 120, second only to Frank Thomas' 124; Ventura edges Edgar at third, 116-111; Grebeck rates a potent 102!; Griffey edges Puckett as top CF, 93-90; Listach nudges out Lofton among rookies, 82-80. And Alomar clearly outpoints Baerga, 97-73. Last by position: Segui 10, Sojo 29, Palmer 22, Lewis 31, Polonia 40, Cuyler 26, V. Hayes 39. All for now. Clay D. ",9 "Re: Why not concentrate on child molesters? In article <15480@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: |> In article , joec@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com ( Joe Cipale) writes: |> > In article <15325@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: |> # #However, monogamous homosexual male sex is so rare that for practical |> # #purposes, homosexuality spreads AIDS. |> # #-- |> # #Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! |> # #Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. |> |> # You fucking homophobic moron!!!!!!!!! What about IV drug use? What about |> # tainted blood? What about multi-sexual partners? If you knew anything |> |> What about them? Those also spread AIDS. Where did I say anything |> different? Go back and read what I wrote. The statement ""homosexuality |> spreads AIDS"" is not made false by the fact that there are other |> methods of spreading it as well. |> |> # about what you are talking about, you would be dangerous. As it is right now, |> # you are a persistent boil on the skin of humanity that needs to be lanced. |> # |> # Joe Cipale |> |> Typical homosexual response. |> |> You have yet to answer any or all of my questions and challenges to your statements. By this am I to assume that you are unable to do so? Or just plain unwilling due to your lack of proof/intelligence? So what next? I prove you wrong so you just put me in your killfile? Your lack of reasoned response seems to be a typical Clayton response. |> -- |> Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! |> Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. -- +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) | | eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! | +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",18 "Re: Keeping Your Mouth Shut (was: Hard drive security) In article <1993Apr14.055903.5358@qualcomm.com> karn@servo.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) writes: > > >I say ""in theory"" because in another case, a woman was held in >contempt for refusing to reveal the location of her child even after >taking the 5th. In this case, the woman was suspected of having >murdered the kid, so taking the 5th wasn't surprising. Sure, so she >was probably guilty, but that's not good enough. In our system you're >not supposed to be able to force a suspect to confess to a crime, no >matter how strongly you think they're guilty. You have to develop >your evidence independently. Doing otherwise might catch a few more >crooks, but only at the cost of turning the clock back to the middle >ages, when confessions were routinely tortured out of suspects both >guilty and innocent. > OK, I should have read the thread before posting my own $0.02. I would just add to Phil's very infomative discussion the following caveat: the fifth amendment applies ONLY in crinial cases. (""...nor shall any person . . . be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...""). Thus if the father sued for custody of the children, the case would be civil and the defendant mother would not have fifth amendment protection. Oddly enough, her refusal to give information in a civil case can lead to criminal contempt charges (thus landing her in jail.) The interesting part of all this is that in a murder trial, the woman CAN plead the fifth as to the location of the child--this is routine. A ""computer crime"" prosecution thus would seem to be fertile ground for this kind of defense, where a suit by a party injured by ""hackers"" would not. If I am accused, for example, of sending encrypted kiddie porn over the nets the fifth should protect my key. If I am accused of sending copyrighted material, however, it proabably will not (copyright infringement not being a ""crime"" in the technical sense.) The REALLY tricky question is, say I do both (naughty boy that I am) can the government use the information gained in the civil trial (ie. my key) to gain access to my files for use in the criminal prosecution. The answer should certainly be no, but lord only knows how this would work out. Steve. -- Steve Kramarsky, University of Chicago Law School steve@faerie.chi.il.us -or- smk5@quads.uchicago.edu ""All I did was kiss a girl."" - Jake, the night before his hanging. ",11 "Re: Die Zeit: The Massacre of Turkish Cypriots in Paphos and Famagusta. In article jtsilla@sparc10a.ccs.northeastern.edu (James Tsillas) writes: >I got some e-mail on this topic and decided to do some more reading. I >thought it would be nice to share my response with everyone: How about the following scholarly source? Source: Pierre Oberling, ""The Road to Bellapais: The Turkish Cypriot Exodus to Northern Cyprus"", Social Science Monographs, Boulder, 1982, ISBN 88033-000-7. >Well, according to a book by C.M.Woodhouse I've read it looks like the >situation was much more complicated than either of us suggest. Needless >to say nationalism on both the Greek and Turkish side was strong and >began in April of '74 with confrontations over the Agean (as usual) >between the government in Turkey and the Ioannidis junta. >In July 15 an assasination attempt against Makarios (then president of >Cyprus) plotted by Ioannidis, ruling dictator in Greece, fails and >Makarios flees to England. The journalist Nicos Sampson takes over in a >coup led by the Greek officers in the Cyprus National Guard. Turkish >forces which had been mobilized in anticipation begin landing on the >north shore of the island on 20th of July. This caused the welcomed >collapse of the dictatorship the 24th with Mr. Karamanlis returning from Well, I am forced to disagree with you. The Greeks started massacring the Turkish population on Cyprus in 1974. In 1974, Turkiye stepped into Cyprus to preserve the lives of the Turkish population there. This is nothing but a simple historical fact. Unfortunately, the intervention was too late at least for some of the victims. Mass graves containing numerous bodies of women and children already showed what fate had been planned for a peaceful minority. The people of Turkiye know quite well that Greece and the Greek Cypriots will never abandon the idea of hellenizing Cyprus and will remain eternally hopeful of uniting it with Greece, someday, whatever the cost to the parties involved. The history speaks for itself. Greece was the sole perpetrator of invasion on that island when it sent its troops on July 15, 1974 in an attempt to topple the legitimate government of Archibishop Makarios. The release of Nikos Sampson, a member of EOKA [National Organization of Cypriot Fighters] and a convicted terrorist, shows that the 'enosis' mentality continues to survive in Greece. One should not forget that Sampson dedicated his life to annihilating the Turks in Cyprus, committed murder to achieve this goal, and tried to destroy the island's independence by annexing it to Greece. Of course, the Greek governments will have to bear the consequences for this irresponsible conduct. Turkish Cypriots are simply seeking guarantees that will preclude a repeat performance by the fanatical cadres of the Greeks' EOKA. If such assurances are not perfectly implemented, there is every reason to expect that the local Greeks will be misguided enough to perpetrate their past mistakes. On such an occasion, the Turkish side may not find it satisfactory to act with reluctance to go any further than before, for it is unacceptable to remain always defensive against cyclical vicious attacks. Therefore it would be better to have a true federation of two separate sections living in obligatory peace, rather than another armed confrontation that would be started by the Greeks and obligatorily but decisively terminated by the Turks. The present Greek government is trying to tyrannize the Turkish population in western Thrace by forbidding it its ethnic and religious rights, which were established through international treaties. One might be better advised to remember that misadventures against Turkiye do not serve Greece well. An offer of membership in the European Common Market as bait for concessions that may doom the Turks in Cyprus to extinction is not a viable course for Greece or her friends. Neither Turkish lives nor Turkish honor has been placed on the bidding block to be sold for commercial gain. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Moraltiy? (was Re: >>>What if I act morally for no particular reason? Then am I moral? What >>>>if morality is instinctive, as in most animals? >>>Saying that morality is instinctive in animals is an attempt to >>>assume your conclusion. >>Which conclusion? >You conclusion - correct me if I err - that the behaviour which is >instinctive in animals is a ""natural"" moral system. See, we are disagreeing on the definition of moral here. Earlier, you said that it must be a conscious act. By your definition, no instinctive behavior pattern could be an act of morality. You are trying to apply human terms to non-humans. I think that even if someone is not conscious of an alternative, this does not prevent his behavior from being moral. >>You don't think that morality is a behavior pattern? What is human >>morality? A moral action is one that is consistent with a given >>pattern. That is, we enforce a certain behavior as moral. >You keep getting this backwards. *You* are trying to show that >the behaviour pattern is a morality. Whether morality is a behavior >pattern is irrelevant, since there can be behavior pattern, for >example the motions of the planets, that most (all?) people would >not call a morality. I try to show it, but by your definition, it can't be shown. And, morality can be thought of a large class of princples. It could be defined in terms of many things--the laws of physics if you wish. However, it seems silly to talk of a ""moral"" planet because it obeys the laws of phyics. It is less silly to talk about animals, as they have at least some free will. keith ",0 "Re: College atheists nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) writes: > I read an article about a poll done of students at the Ivy League > schools in which it was reported that a third of the students > indentified themselves as atheists. This is a lot higher than among the > general population. I wonder what the reasons for this discrepancy are? > Is it because they are more intelligent? Younger? Is this the wave of > the future? I would guess that it probably has something to do with the ease of which ideas and thoughts are communicated on a college campus. In the real world (tm) it's easier for theists (well, people in general really) to lock themselves into a little bubble where they only see and talk to those people who are of the same opinion as they are. In college you are constantly surrounded by and have to interact with people who have different ideas about life, the universe, and everything. It is much much harder to build a bubble around yourself to keep everyone else's ideas from reaching you. So, in a world where theists are forced to contend with and listen to atheists and theists of other religions some are bound to have a change in their beliefs over four years. There is nowhere to run.... :-) > David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI > This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher > must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell Nanci ......................................................................... If you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me email (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu): The fate of the country does not depend on what kind of paper you drop into the ballot box once a year, but on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning. ",0 "Redirecting stdout/stderr of a program Hi, Does anyone know how to redirect the stdout and stderr of a program to a callback function in X ? The program does not fork() a child process so I guess I can't use pipes. Can anyone help ? Thanks, Deepak ",5 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! chiu@io.nosc.mil (Francis Chiu) writes: > Brent Irvine (irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote: > > : failed to mention the Davidians pouring kerosene all over and lighting it i > : plain view. > > Brent, I'm still waiting to see if there are any evidence of how the fire > got started, so I'm not going to tell you who did it... As far as you keep > talking about the Davidians pouring kerosene all over, stop and *think* > for a second if it is possible the stove or lamp was knocked over and > started a fire, and the Davidians were pouring water on it (wrong solution > but I doubt I can do much better in their states of mind...) to try to > put it out? > > By the way, just how far where you standing from the Davidians when you > saw them setting the place on fire? Oh, in case you are new in town, > microwave ovens doesn't work very well when there's no electricty. :-0 > > Get some *facts* before you post next time! > > --F. Chiu First the FBI said they saw two members of the cult start the fire-and the FBI never lies. Second, the first started in opposite ends of the compound at the same time and thirdly, the fire spread too quickly for it not to be help without an accelerate. ------ stevek@cellar.org (Steve Kraisler) The Cellar BBS - (215) 539-3043 ",16 "Saudi clergy and their western supporters vs Human rights. bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes: >In article benali@alcor.concordia.ca ( ILYESS B. BDIRA ) writes: >So how would have *you* defended Saudi Arabia and rolled >back the Iraqi invasion, were you in charge of Saudi Arabia??? All Muslims knew that the whole thing was set up to destroy Iraq, not to ""Liberate Kuwait"", The people who were killed by the invasion are more (many many more), than the ones that were killed by the Iraqis in their smaller invasion. I lived in the west, and I have seen how your media prepared you (helpless naive Americans) for a war against Iraq even before the artificial conflict between Iraq and Kuwait that led to the invasion, as the CIA correctly predicted (and pretended to be surprised not to know). It just happened that Saddam was so predictible and so arrogant and stupid. What would I have done: Most Muslims would choose 300 dead Kuwaitis over 200,000 dead Iraqis and 1000 dead Kuwaitis. The first case would happen if no western intervention happened, and the second case was a direct or indirect result of western envolvement. Human rights in Kuwait? what about human rights in Iraq? why the west gave Saddam a green light to slaughter his own people? I will give my reason: because the rich Kuwaitis do not mind to be your salves, so they deserve some democracy, but Iraqis might not, so they don't. As simple as that, whether or not you want to admit it. >I think that it is a very good idea to not have governments have an >official religion (de facto or de jure), because with human nature >like it is, the ambitious and not the pious will always be the >ones who rise to power. There are just too many people in this >world (or any country) for the citizens to really know if a >leader is really devout or if he is just a slick operator. Not necessarily the best solution, my view of an Islamic state (and that of Turabi that your media made you hate) includes all the benefits of a secular state minus the injustices. Did you ever read a book by Rashid Al-Ghannoushi (Tunisia), Hassan Turabi (Sudan)? You only know about them from your Self-censured, self-controlled media. If they make this kind of campaign against such a moderate thinker as Turabi is, and keep quite about such an extremist Muslim scholar as Bin Bez of Saudi Arabia is, it just does not encourage any moderation in our ARab world. >You make it sound like these guys are angels, Ilyess. (In your >clarinet posting you edited out some stuff; was it the following???) No it was not that, it was just some irrelevent stuff that I took out to go around the copyright (;-)) I ceased to take the Newyork times seriously. In issues concerning Islam it has become one of the biggest enemies (although less than the other NewYork daily since Mortimer took it over). It lies, selects facts that fits its agenda and even prints racist and open anti-Muslim editorials. What they claimed in that articles is a bunch of lies because while the selected facts are true about some of those persons, the other members are actually defence lawyers and University science professors who wanted to fight corruption, uncover atrocities against opposition activists and Shia minority, and generally increase awareness about the rights of all citizens. The only thing that is common between those people is their concern for the deterioration of human rights since the Saudi clan took a green light from AMerica (after the gulf) to do whatever is necessary to stay in power. Do you know that ALL OF THE SAUDI ULEMA have been taught the same things? the ones in the official Iftaa are as conservative as the ones that are opposing it. SOme of the members of the human rights committe are MORE PRO-WOMEN and wanted to defend them, and that is precisely one reason that Bin Bez's Fatwah implied for the ""Illegality "" of this committee and for his claim that it represents ""Outside interests"" There is a human rights issue in Saudi ARabia, and YOU and NY times chose to ignore the main issue and select some of the members of that committee and actually defend the actions done against them (including banning them from their Jobs. What a hypocricy. I am not surprised really, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME. The official Ulema are the most extremist anti-women meat-heads in Saudi Arabia, the west continues on its campaign to discredit itself in the Muslim community, by supporting them. Well after Bosnia, I guess it has ZERO credibility to begin with, so what the heck. ""Idha Lam tastahi Faf'aal Ma shi'it"" (If you feel no shame, then do whatever you want, Hadith). (actually a better translation of the meaning would be: ""If you do not feel ashamed (from God), you will do whatever you want) ",17 "Looking for Mac II Batteries Hi! I am looking for a source of lithium batteries for an original Mac II. The number on the battery is ER 1/2 AA. Local electronic shops & computer stores freak when inquire. The fastest any of them can get a battery to me is 2-3 weeks for about $20. Anything faster and/or cheaper is welcome! Please respond to me via e-mail and I will summarize to the net. Note my e-mail address differs from the return address of this posting. Thanks in advance for your help! Michael Stovsky mps@cbvox.att.com ",4 "Amiga's for sale For Sale: 2 Amigas! Commodore Amiga 1000 Best offer 512k Ram 1 Internal Floppy drive Detachable Keyboard 2 Button Mouse Commodore Amiga 500 Best offer 1024k Ram 1 Internal Floppy drive 2 Button Mouse 1 RGB Monitor Best offer 1 External Floppy drive Best offer Call Brian Dickman at (717)872-1719 or send e-mail to dickman_con@huey. millersv.edu. ",6 "REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse. The shifter GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to GK>get it into gear. I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple GK>of months. Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse. They use the same synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using this technique. ---- The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us) A PCBoard 14.5a system Houston, Texas, USA +1.713.466.1525 running uuPCB ",7 "Re: MathCad 4.0 swap file baseball@catch-the-fever.scd.ucar.edu (Gregg Walters) writes: >I have 16MB of memory on my 386SX. I have been running Windows >without a swap file for several months. Will Mathcad 4.0 be >happy with this, or insist on a swap file? Presumeably, you mean without a _permanent_ swap file. If Windows needs a swap file, it will upo and create one if a permanent one doesn't exist. Permanent is generally faster though. I don't know why Mathcad wouldn't be happy with either type--Ver. 3.0 is and so should any program conforming to the Win specification. ",2 "Re: Riceburner Respect am amazed at the number of Harley riders who ARE waving even to a lowly baby ninja. Let's keep up the good attitudes. Brock Yates said in this months Car and Driver he is ready for a war (against those who would rather we all rode busses). We bikers should be too. It's a freedom that we all wanna know and it's an obsession to some to keep the world in your rearview mirror while you try to run down the sun ""Wheels"" by Rhestless Heart Marty O. 87 250 ninja 73 XL 250 Motosport ",8 "Re: Societally acceptable behavior In article , cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: > In <1qvh8tINNsg6@citation.ksu.ksu.edu> yohan@citation.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W > Newton) writes: > > >>In article , cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike > Cobb) writes: >>>Merely a question for the basis of morality >>> >>>Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_. > >>I disagree with these. What society thinks should be irrelevant. What the >>individual decides is all that is important. > > This doesn't seem right. If I want to kill you, I can because that is what I > decide? Exactly. Although this may be a dissapointing answer, there has to be an interplay of the two. Personal Ethos and Societal Morality. A person's self-generated/learned set of beliefs are usually expressed on a purely mental/verbal level, and don't usually find expression in society except in an impure (not in the sense of bad :) ) state. Sometimes this has to be so. >>> >>>1)Who is society > >>I think this is fairly obvious > > Not really. If whatever a particular society mandates as ok is ok, there are > always some in the ""society"" who disagree with the mandates, so which > societal mandates make the standard for morality? Also, what if one feels oneself to be part of more than one society, in a very real sense? To use the obvious example, there is a political society, and a racial society, and a gender society, and sometimes they do not always agree on every issue... > >> >>>2)How do ""they"" define what is acceptable? > >>Generally by what they ""feel"" is right, which is the most idiotic policy I can >>think of. > > So what should be the basis? Unfortunately I have to admit to being tied at > least loosely to the ""feeling"", in that I think we intuitively know some things > to be wrong. Awfully hard to defend, though. Yes. Perhaps with an infamous ""do what you want so long as it doesn't hurt others?"" The problem with this is that it is merely saying what you CAN do: it is not a morality in that it doesn't propound any specifically preferred behaviours. >>> >>>3)How do we keep from a ""whatever is legal is what is ""moral"" ""position? > >>By thinking for ourselves. > > I might agree here. Just because certain actions are legal does not make them > ""moral"". I'll add a hearty ""me two"". However, one could just as well say just because certain actions are moral does not make them legal: one still doesn't really get an impression of which one is truly ""right"". >>> >>>MAC >>>-- >>>**************************************************************** >>> Michael A. Cobb >>> ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois >>> class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana >>> -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu >>> >>>With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar > deficits. > > -- > **************************************************************** > Michael A. Cobb > ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois > class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana > -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu > > Nobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton best regards, ******************************************************************************** * Adam John Cooper ""Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings * * (612) 696-7521 who thought themselves good simply because * * acooper@macalstr.edu they had no claws."" * ******************************************************************************** ",0 "Novice Beekeeper Seeks Tools of Trade If you'd like to find a home for that beekeeping equipment you'll never use again, here's a likely victim, uh, customer. To make a deal, call: Laura Forbes (503)275-4483 during regular business hours, or, respond to me through e-mail and I'll pass your message along. ",6 "Software and Hardware FOR SALE I have the following items for sale: Animation Works software for Macintosh by Gold Disk This is a brand new shrink-wrapped copy Microsoft Excel for Windows Ver. 4.0 Opened, but includes everything including Registration card Video7 FastWrite VGA card. 512 video memory. 800x600 resolution. Everex 2400b internal modem. Video card and the modem are used items. If you are interested make a reasonable offer. I wish to ship these UPS COD. Please email me at karu@nevada.edu. Thank you. Karu. karu@nevada.edu ",6 "The x-Soviet Armenian Government must recognize the Turkish Genocide. In article <30947@galaxy.ucr.edu> raffi@watnxt08.ucr.edu (Raffi R Kojian) writes: >I suspect it might have to do with Pan-Turkism blinding certain people. You don't get it - do you? During the years of World War I, the x-Soviet Armenian Government has planned and perpetrated the 'Genocide' of the Muslim people, which not only took the lives of 2.5 million Muslim people, but was also the method used to empty the Turkish homeland of its inhabitants. To this day, Turkish historic lands remain occupied by the x-Soviet Armenia. In order to cover up the fact of its usurpation of the historic Turkish homeland, which is the crux of Turkish political demands, fascist x-Soviet Armenia continues its anti-Turkish policy in the following ways: 1. x-Soviet Armenia denies the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide in order to shift international public opinion away from its political responsibility. 2. x-Soviet Armenia, employing ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle, attempts to call into question the veracity of the Turkish Genocide. 3. x-Soviet Armenia has also implemented state-sponsored terrorism through the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle in an attempt to silence the Turkish people's vehement demands and protests. 4. Using all its human, financial, and governmental resources, x-Soviet Armenia and its tools in the United States attempt to silence through terrorism, bribery and other subversive methods, non-Turkish supporters of the Turkish cause, be they political, governmental and humanitarian. Using all the aforementioned methods, the x-Soviet Armenian Government is attempting to neutralize the international diplomatic community from making the Turkish Case a contemporary issue. Yet despite the efforts of the x-Soviet Armenian Government and its terrorist and revisionist organizations, in the last decades, thanks to the struggle of those whose closest ones have been systematically exterminated by the Armenians, the international wall of silence on this issue has begun to collapse, and consequently a number of governments and organizations have become supportive of the recognition of the Turkish Genocide. With the full knowledge that the struggle for the Turkish territorial demands are still in their initial stages, the Turkish and Kurdish people will unflaggingly continue in this sacred struggle, therefore the victims of the Turkish Genocide demand: 1. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government, as the heirs of the Armenian Dictatorship, recognize the Turkish Genocide; 2. that x-Soviet Armenia return the historic homeland to the Turkish and Kurdish people; 3. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government make material reparations for their heinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Turkish Genocide; 4. that all world governments, and especially the United States, officially recognize the Turkish Genocide and Turkish territorial rights and refuse to succumb to all Armenian political pressure; 5. that the U.S. Government free itself from the friendly position it has adopted towards its unreliable ally, x-Soviet Armenia, and officially recognize the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide as well as be supportive of the pursuit of Turkish territorial demands; 6. that the x-Soviet Republics officially recognize the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide and include the cold-blooded extermination of 2.5 million Muslim people in their history books. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: Is this overreaction? Perry E. Metzger (pmetzger@snark.shearson.com) wrote: ... : We would like to keep it that way. Thats the point. By reacting : strongly and forcefully now, we will assure that we continue to remain : free. You cannot overreact to a threat like this. The worst that : happens if we overreact is that we waste time and effort. The worst that : happens if we underreact is tyranny. I prefer overreaction myself. .... : Only through centuries of overreaction have we managed to maintain : ourselves in this state of even moderate freedom. I suggest that : overreacting now and in the future is a good thing. Perry is right on target here. Careful analysis of the Clipper Chip announcement reveals that is *not* likely to remain ""voluntary"" for very long...the cost of the system, the cost of generating and _then storing_ the escrow keys, and the admitted security holes pretty much make the ClipperPhone a loser. Strong crypto will outcompete it, if strong crypto is allowed. This is the battle we face. We had rumblings of this totalitarian key registration thing a while back, and now the other shoe has dropped. The firestorm of commentary and criticism this time around reveals the almost immediate revulsion this Wiretap Chip (and automatic Caller ID and Callee ID, don't forget!) generates in everyone, or almost everyone, who hears about it. This is a battle we can't afford to lose. -Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. ",11 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <93112.153005MGB@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, writes: > From A.P. : According to numerous accounts by those in the compound, > the fire was started by an armoured vehicle crushing a large propane > tank, and turning over numerous gas lanterns. > > Medical Examiners have found no bullet wounds, as was stated by the > FBI, on the corpses. > > I find it tremendously chilling that so many people seem willing to accept > the governments story, despite much evidence to the contrary. But then > again, that is how Mr. Clinton was elected, by people who believe that > his campaign promisses would be respected by him once he got into office. > If people will believe that of any politican, it is little wonder they > will believe all of the factoids being given out as fact by the > Clinton/Reno/FBI/BATF confederation. CNN reported tonight that some bodies were found with bullet holes in their heads. However, I have no information on the possible causes. This is not to say that Government stories are to be taken at the face value in this case, but to jump to conclusion at this stage may be the source of embarrassment in the future. Let's be paranoic, this may be a ploy to smoke out the opposition and decredit them. :-) Comparison of this incidence to Tienanmen Square is made in soc.culture.china. Just in case you need more ammunition to shoot at each other. :-) No matter which side you are on this Waco issue, are you ready to die defending your cause? Peace be with you. Pete ",16 "Re: Losing your temper is not a Christian trait In article , jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) wrote: > I'd like to remind people of the withering of the fig tree and Jesus > driving the money changers et. al. out of the temple. I think those > were two instances of Christ showing anger (as part of His human side). > Yes, and what about Paul saying: 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: (Ephesians 4:26). Obviously then, we can be angry w/o sinning. Jon ------------------------------------------------ Jon Ogden - jono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com Motorola Cellular - Advanced Products Division Voice: 708-632-2521 Data: 708-632-6086 ------------------------------------------------ They drew a circle and shut him out. Heretic, Rebel, a thing to flout. But Love and I had the wit to win; We drew a circle and took him in. ",15 "Re: How is a Loopback connector made? skcgoh@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Shaw Goh) writes: >35002_4401@uwovax.uwo.ca wrote: >: I need to know the Pins to connect to make a loopback connector for a serial >: port so I can build one. The loopback connector is used to test the >: serial port. >: >: Thanks for any help. >: >: >: Steve >: >Me Too!!!!!!! >skcgoh@tartarus.uwa.edu.au In a 25-pin serial loopback plug, you need to connect the following pins: pin 1 to pin 7 pin 2 to pin 3 pins 4, 5 and 8 together pins 6, 11, 20 and 22 together pins 15, 17 and 23 together, pin 18 to pin 25. That should do it. Note that *a lot* of these pins are redundant in many implementations.... Phil ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Burg Computer Unit, CSIRO Division of Entomology Australia Life: a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% mortality rate. ",3 "Re: Tape Backup Question In article <1993Apr15.195810.26648@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes: >Hello folks! > >I have an Archive XL5580 (internal QIC-80) tape drive, which is pretty >comparable to the Colorado Jumbo 250. Since I have two floppy drives in >my system, I'm using a small card (not accelerated) made by Archive to >attach my tape drive as a third floppy device. > >The problem: Although the DOS-based QICstream software works just fine, >both the Norton and Central Point backup programs for Windows fail unless >I switch the machine to non-turbo speed (I'm using a 486DX/33 EISA). Since >the DOS software works, it can't be a hardware problem, can it? Has anyone >seen similar problems? Any solutions? Thanks in advance. Yeah. Sounds typical. Windows makes all sorts of extra demands on hardware, and therefore your machine can't keep up with things. Ever notice how when acessing the floppies in Windows, everything else slows to a crawl? I imagine your backup and evertyhing else that is running fights for CPU time, and sometimes the backup program loses. Be glad. I can't even run in medium speed with CP backup on my machine, supposedly because I have a SCSI machine which places extra demands on the data bus. don ",3 "Re: Maxima Chain wax In article nelson@seahunt.imat.com (Michael Nelson) writes: >In article <1993Apr23.163805.9516@research.nj.nec.com> behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes: >> >> Spray the chain wax onto the rollers and sideplates occassionally, and >>rust will not be a problem. > > I did. Regularly. And it was. Interesting. All I can say is that I haven't seen any wear in the 1000 miles I've used the stuff on the Ninja, and the bike stays soooo clean. I'll check back again in a few thousand more miles. While we're on the subject, whereinthehell can I find a 532x110 endless chain, other than the dealer (no, rivet-type master links are not acceptable)? Later, -- Chris BeHanna DoD# 114 1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady behanna@syl.nj.nec.com 1975 CB360T - Baby Bike Disclaimer: Now why would NEC 1991 ZX-11 - needs a name agree with any of this anyway? I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. ",8 "Re: computer books for sale (UPDATED LIST) UPDATED LIST Hi everybody I have the following books for sale. Some of these books are brand new. If you find any book you like and need more information about it, please feel free to send me an E-Mail. The buyers pays the shipping fees. Thanks. abou@sun.soe.clarkson.edu ======================================================================== TITLE : Windows Programming: An Introduction AUTHOR : William H. Murray, III & Chris H. Pappas PUBLISH.: Osborne McGraw-Hill pp. : 650 COVER : Soft NOTE : Covers up to Windows 3.0 ASKING : $15 ====================================================================== TITLE : Harvard Graphics: The Complete Reference AUTHOR : Cary Jensen & Loy Anderson PUBLISH.: Osborne McGraw-Hill pp. : 1073 COVER : Soft NOTE : Covers Releases Through 2.3 & Draw Partner ASKING : $15 ======================================================================= TITLE : High Performance Interactive Graphics: Modeling, Rendering, and Animating AUTHOR : Lee Adams PUBLISH.:Windcrest pp. : 402 COVER : Soft NOTE : Full of examples programs in BASIC ASKING :$15 ======================================================================== TITLE : Science and Engineering Applications on the IBM PC AUTHOR : R. Severin PUBLISH.: Abacus pp. : 262 COVER : Soft NOTE : A lot of Examples in BASIC ASKING :$ 10 ========================================================================= TITLE : Graphics for the Dot-Matrix Printer: How to Get Your Printer to Perform Miracles AUTHOR : John W. Davenport PUBLISH.: Simon & Schuster pp. : 461 COVER : Soft NOTE : Full of examples Programs in BASIC ASKING : $10 ========================================================================== TITLE : Programming With TURBO C AUTHOR : S. Scott Zimmerman & Beverly B. Zimmerman PUBLISH.: Scott, Foresman and Co. pp. : 637 COVER : Soft NOTE : Some of the pages are highlighted ASKING : $10 ========================================================================== TITLE : Introduction to Computer Graphics AUTHOR : John Demel & Michael Miller PUBLISH.: Brooks/Cole Engineering Division pp. : 427 COVER : Soft NOTE : Example Programs in BASIC and Fortran ASKING : $10 ========================================================================== TITLE : Hard Disk Mangement: The Pocket Reference AUTHOR : Kris Jamsa PUBLISH.: Osborne McGraw-Hill pp. : 128 COVER : Soft NOTE : Pocket Size ASKING : $ 4 ========================================================================== ",6 "Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach Andrew - continuing the discussion on the Deuterocanonicals... In article revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes: >poram@ihlpb.att.com wrote: >: Lets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the >: standards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we >: can ask: >: 1. Is it authoritative? > >""Authoritative"" is not a quality of the writing itself- it is a statement >by the community of faith whether it will accept the writing as normative. Arguably, it is both. Since authority is a matter of both communicator and recepiant we can say that, for example ""Jesus is Lord"" whether the world at large accepts the authority or not. Thus the Bible can be considered for its authoritative content whether or not it is accepted (This issue is at the heart of Pilate's pragmatic question ""What is truth?"" to Jesus when our Lord was brought before Him. Jesus' reply was to appeal to the authority of his Father) You also might like to consider the claimed authority represented by the statements ""thus says the Lord"" in the Bible, which claim to put across the exact words of God. You fall into the danger of relativism with your rejection of inherant authority and claim that it lies only in the ""community of faith"" - does something become truth because it is accepted? The main thrust of my argument is that there is a Godward direction as well as a manward (which is where the reference to Rev 22 came in.) >: 2. Is it prophetic? > >How is ""prophecy"" to be defined? If it is ""speaking forth"" of God's message, >much of the apocrypha must surely qualify. If we narrowed it down to the predictive elements - which will cut out some of the 39 accepted OT books as well - we nonetheless have criteria for determining the validity of the book: Jesus' standards were that ""Scripture cannot be broken"". Can you name a single prophecy that fits the bill in the Apocrapha? (ie definitely fulfilled AFTER it has been written) >: 3. Is it authentic? > >Again, by what standard? Is ""authenticity"" a function of the authors? the >historical accuracy? Does it have a subjective 'ring of truth' about it - and does other evidence that has come to light contradict or confirm the authenticity? (archaeological, other textual evidence for example) >: 4. Is it dynamic? > >What is this supposed to mean? Many of the apocryphal books are highly >""dynamic"" -thought provoking, faithful, even exciting. What this is getting at is the relationship between text and reader. It is to do with the quality of writing, which should have the ability to fire the mind, affect our thought life and cause us to act in a certain way - there is something of this in Jesus' quote: ""Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord"". (Matt 4.4) >: 5. Is it received, collected, read and used? > >By whom? Of course the apocryphal books were received (by some), >collected (or else we would not have them), read and used (and they still are, >in the Catholic and Orthodox churches). Does the Catholic Church give the same authority to the Apocrapha as to the accepted 66 books? Certainly it is not as widely used as the OT and NT. >: On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God. > >This is demonstrably false. Think about what I have said above. You may want to revise your conclusion. In addition think about other 'sacred writings', eg the Koran, the book of Mormon and how and why you would categorise them using the above principles. One word of caution - you may find some 'reflected glory' in some of these books: in that the 'inspired quality' may be derived from the Bible. Remember that Lucifer is quite capable of appearing as an angel of light and quoting Scripture. >: To quote Unger's Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha: >: 1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and >: anachronisms. > >So do other books of the Bible. What were you thinking of? >[deletions] > >: How do you then view the words: ""I warn everyone who hears the >: words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to >: them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. >: And if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will >: take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the >: holy city"" (Rev 22.18-9) >: Surely this sets the standard and not just man-made traditions. > >These words clearly were meant to refer to the book of Revelation alone, >not to the whole body of scripture. Revelation itself was accepted very >late into the canon. The church simply did not see it as having a primary >role of any kind in identifying and limiting scripture. We've lost the point and the context here. I am not arguing that the statement in Rev. can be applied indescriminately, just that the whole acceptance/rejection idea does not just follow on from man-made traditions - but there is I believe an act of God involved in the selection and criteria of what is classified as Scripture and comes under the definition of 2Tim 3.16. > >revdak@netcom.com Barney Resson ""Many shall run to and fro, & knowledge shall increase"" (Daniel) ",15 "RE: Game Length (was Re: Braves Update!! mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes: >First, a longer game in no way suggests ""more baseball to watch,"" unless >you include watching the grass grow as baseball. I definitely do. That's why I don't like going to see games played on artificial turf :-) >The lengthier games >are so because of batters stepping out of the box, pitchers taking >longer between pitches and excessive trips to the mound by managers >and pitching coaches. > >And while it's true that the gaps between plays can be interesting, this >is only true when they don't become extra-long. Well, your idea of ""interesting"" differs from mine. I think batting practice is interesting, for example, and make a special effort to get to the game very early in order to see it. I think the delaying tactics of batters, pitchers, catchers, and managers are interesting because they're attempts to gain advantage through control of the flow and timing of the game. Of course, the umpires can, and should, intervene when these tactics get out of hand. As Ryan Robbins has pointed out, there are rules that cover this. One of the more fascinating things about baseball, I think, is its open-endedness with regard to time. You never know if the game is going to zip right by and be over in less than two hours, or if it's going to go on until four in the morning. Likewise, some games are action-packed, and some games are slow and lazy. That's fine by me. Those folks who want constant action should watch the games on TV so they can channel- surf and cater to their short attention spans. Heather HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu ",9 "WANTED: Floppy controller that can handle multiple floppies I need to duplicate a bunch of floppy disks (3.5"") and ideally would like to be able to keep 2 to 4 floppies busy simultaneously on a single PC. [Yes, I know that services to do this exist.] I know that standard ISA bus floppy controllers can only have one drive active at a time. I know that some controllers are available that can handle 4 floppies with serialized access. I know that microchannel machines can keep more than one floppy active simultaneously. But does anyone have a controller for an ISA bus PC that can simultaneously keep 2 to 4 floppies going? How about for an EISA machine? If the limitation is a software limitation, I can work around that by using OS/2 1.3 on my PC-286. New or used, I'm interested. orville ------------------------------------------- ******************************* Orville R. Weyrich, Jr. Weyrich Computer Consulting Certified Data Processor POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261 Certified Systems Professional Voice: (602) 391-0821 Certified Computer Programmer Internet: orville@weyrich.com No freedom without responsibility. UUCP: uunet!weyrich!orville ------------------------------------------- ******************************* ",3 "Re: Adcom cheap products? In article <1993Apr16.105738.20864@hippo.ru.ac.za> webb@itu1 (90-29265 Webber AH) writes: > ...stuff deleted... > >I was also sceptical about the amps being built in the far-east > or where-ever. But if you look in the amp and see what components > they use and how it was designed, you can easily see why the > amplifiers sound so brilliant. Good point...also, I wouldn't be surprised that the components they use off-shore are of inferior quality. As long as it was properly designed and robust, premium components are used, it shouldn't matter where it is assembled. >I cannot see why people say the amplifier won't last - not with > those quality components inside. Sure the amp runs very fairly > hot - but that's how you get an amp to sound incredibly good. An amp that runs hot has no bearing on how it's gonna sound. The amp you have probably is running Class-A the whole day. Actually, I'd be wary of excessively hot amps, 'cauz even though the components inside may be rated to run that way, excessive heat will dramatically shorten the life of *any* electronic component regardless of quality. In fact, an amp that does run hot to the touch is because either the engineer or manufacturer of that amp wanted to skimp on heatsinking or cooling to save costs! Hmmmmm.... aaron . ",12 "Re: Ancient Books cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >If I talk with an atheist and tell him the New Testament is an historically >reliable document, what reasons would I give him? I have found that this isn't a very effective argument. Most atheists are perfectly willing to acknowledge the existence and ministry of Jesus--but are quite capable of rationalizing the miracles and the resurrection into misunderstandings, hoaxes, or simple fabrications. They can always make an analogy with the _Iliad_, a book that tells the story of the historical Trojan War, but also talks about gods and goddesses and their conversations. I don't think it's possible to convince atheists of the validity of Christianity through argument. We have to help foster faith and an understanding of God. I could be wrong--are there any former atheists here who were led to Christianity by argument? Alan Terlep ""Incestuous vituperousness"" Oakland University, Rochester, MI atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu --Melissa Eggertsen Rushing in where angels fear to tread. ",15 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article , lfoard@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: > In article kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes: > >In article <1993Apr21.222523.21713@news.cs.indiana.edu> alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (amy lynn young-leith) writes: # ## Can someone tell me why when Mr. Cramer spouts on about homosexuals, # ## he only addresses homosexual men, and never, in any post I've read, # ## addressed lesbians? # # # #I can't really speak for Mr. Cramer here, but I can say that a # #homosexual [male] is an entirely different animal than a lesbian. # #There is virtually nothing that is analogous or related between the # #aberrant behaviors practiced by these two groups of deviants. # # So it has nothing to do with your morals, its just that you wouldn't # have anything to wack off to if you didn't have tapes of Lesbians # going at it.... # # I think we are getting closer to the truth now. No, we are getting at Mr. Foard's sickness. This may surprise homosexuals, but lots of people in this country do NOT spend their time watching pornography and masturbating. Some of us have real lives, instead of sexual compulsions. But I don't expect a homosexual to understand that. -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Re: Stereo Pix of planets?y In article <1993Apr20.010326.8634@csus.edu>, arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) writes: > Can anyone tell me where I might find stereo images of planetary and > planetary satellite surfaces? GIFs preferred, but any will do. I'm > especially interested in stereos of the surfaces of Phobos, Deimos, Mars > and the Moon (in that order). > Thanks. ames.arc.nasa.gov not sure what subdirectory thou.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked PS: I know it has a GIF area as well as SPACE and other info.. ",14 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article <1qjt76$ll@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: > >One pays insurance to pay for coverage one expects/fears one might need. >If one is opposed to abortion, one should not be required to pay for >""coverage"" of it because one will NEVER want to use that ""service"" and >neither should that person be COMPELLED to pay for other people's >abortions PARTICULARLY if one sincerely believes that abortion is >murder. > >dennis Oh good, then I can stop paying for all the diabetics (I'm not at risk) and all those coronary bypass operations (low cholesterol runs in my family). In case you weren't clear on the concept, insurance works because it spreads the risk around. I pay for someone's dialysis, they pay to set my broken bones (I'm active in sports). That way no one pays too much. Sounds kind of like socialism, doesn't it? Find a different argument against paying for abortions. They are out there. -- John Viveiros (jviv@chevron.com) Chevron USA Standard disclaimer applies Midland TX ",18 "Re: images of earth Look in the /pub/SPACE directory on ames.arc.nasa.gov - there are a number of earth images there. You may have to hunt around the subdirectories as things tend to be filed under the mission (ie, ""APOLLO"") rather than under the image subject. Rick ",1 "Re: I want that Billion In article <1rh4rqINNi7o@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: >>>You'd need to launch HLVs to send up large amounts of stuff. Do you know >>>of a private Titan pad? >>Nobody who is interested in launching things cheaply will buy Titans. It >>doesn't take many Titan pricetags to pay for a laser launcher or a large >>gas gun or a development program for a Big Dumb Booster, all of which >>would have far better cost-effectiveness. > >Henry, I made the assumption that he who gets there firstest with the mostest >wins. Only if he doesn't spend more than a billion dollars doing it, since the prize is not going to be scaled up to match the level of effort. You can spend a billion pretty quickly buying Titan launches. What's more, if you buy Titans, the prize money is your entire return on investment. If you develop a new launch system, it has other uses, and the prize is just the icing on the cake. I doubt very much that a billion-dollar prize is going to show enough return to justify the investment if you are constrained to use current US launchers. (There would surely be a buy-American clause in the rules for such a prize, since it would pretty well have to be government-funded.) You're going to *have* to invest your front money in building a new launch system rather than pissing it away on existing ones. Being there first is of no importance if you go bankrupt doing it. >... could I get a couple of CanadARMs tuned for the lunar environment? I >wanna do some teleoperated prospecting while I'm up there... I'm sure Spar would offer to develop such a lunar-tuned system and deliver a couple of them to you for only a couple of hundred million dollars. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ",14 "Daily Verse Dishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes it grow. Proverbs 13:11 ",15 "Items Forsale ITEMS FOR SALE I will take offers for the following items. I reserve the right to refuse any offers. 1. Howard Miller Clock. It chimes like a grandfather clock. 2. Painting- A Tiger in the snow. It is a beautiful painting, the tiger looks like it can jump off of the canvas and get you. 3. Mens Diamond Ring, size 10 a. 3 rows of diamonds b. 18k gold Call or email me. Donald Walker hm 408-263-3709 wk 408-276-3618 ",6 "Re: Long term Human Missions In article <1993Apr29.064347.15433@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>, ward@pashosh.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il (Ward Paul) wrote: > >1. Calculators > >2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan) > >3. Pacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988) > > I don't think touting contributions is a good idea. World War II produced > many many beneficial spinoffs. Eg. Radar, jet aeroplanes, rocket technology. > I don't think anyone would argue that World War II was, in and of itself, > a good thing. > > If you want people to back the space program it must be a good thing in > and of itself. I disagree with what to tout, although I agree that the space program is inherently a good thing. Most people today only care about ""what will it cost me?"" and ""what's in it for me?"" and could care less about whether something is simply worthwhile in and of itself. Our society has become increasingly geared toward the short-term (which you could read as NOW!). They couldn't care less about next week, much less next century. They want something to show for the expenditure and they want it *now*. I think we *should* tell them about the things that they are using now that are spinoffs of the space program. That is the only way you can *prove* its worth to *them* - and they vote and pay taxes too. The continued existence of the space program relies upon that money. just my $.02 BTW: don't forget Velcro... bcnu - John Gladu Systems Support Center -- Baylor College of Medicine INTERNET: jgladu@bcm.tmc.edu | VOICE: (713)798-7370 US MAIL: One Baylor Plaza, Houston, Texas 77030 .opinions expressed are just that.obviously. ",14 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In <1r1887INNcsd@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com writes: > In article <1r0v4c$i1j@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) > writes: > > In <1r0poqINNc4k@clem.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com writes: > > > > According to KIKK radio in Houston, all nine survivors are either in hos- > > pitals or in jails. Including the two who allegedly helped start the > >fires. > > In the FBI briefing, no mention was made of having the fire starters in > custody. Which one? The one yesterday, or has there been another? If it was yester- day, catch up. IMO, 90% of all ""conspiracy"" charges are easily explained by the simple fact that in these days of instantaneous news transmission, all kinds of stuff gets said when people really just don't know what the hell's going on. Then the story changes once the facts are in and suddenly cries of ""its all a whitewash!"" start. Naturally, everybody wants to cover his/her ass. > > > Why the total isolation? > > > > Well, it wasn't TOTAL, 100% isolation. After the lawyer snuck in the > > first time, they (the FBI, etc) let him go back inside several times, in- > >cluding, I think, the day before the final assualt. > > Why not his mother? Why not the media? Damnfino. I just tend to take issue with absolute statements that are ob- viously wrong on their face and tend to inflame, not inform. The isolation was significant, but not total. semper fi, Jammer Jim Miller Texas A&M University '89 and '91 ________________________________________________________________________________ I don't speak for UH, which is too bad, because they could use the help. ""Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."" ""Power finds its way to those who take a stand. Stand up, Ordinary Man."" ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph ",16 "The Nicene Creed (was Re: MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY) Michael Bushnell writes; >The so-called Creed of Athanasius, however, has always been a Western >creed, and has always had the filioque. The Orthodox have said that >they accept all that it says, with the exception of the filioque, but >it is not ""in use."" Which is exactly what I pointed out. (Though I was wrong about your use of the Creed, the 1913 Catholic Encylcopedia in which I read about it said the Orthodox do use the Creed minus the filioque. Apparently that has changed.) The Athanasian Creed has always had the Filioque, the Nicene - Constantinopolitan did not. Of course the Orthodox did not delete the Filioque from the Nicene Creed (it wasn't there to begin with), but they certainly did from the Athanasian Creed, which did have it from the beginning. I might point out that the whole problem started over the difference in ways of explaining the generation of the Blessed Trinity, the East emphasizing the idea of the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father through the Son, and the West using proceeding from the Father and the Son. In fact, some, such as Tertullian, used both formulations (see below) ""Following, therefore, the form of these examples, I profess that I do call God and His Word, - the Father and and His Son, - two. For the root and the stem are two things, but conjoined; the fountain and the river are two kinds, but indivisible; the sun and the ray are two forms, but coherent ones. Anything which proceeds from another must necessarily be a second to that from which it proceeds; but it is not on that account separated from it. Where there is second, however, there are two; and where ther is third, there are three. The Spirit, then, is third from God and the Son, just as the third from the root is the fruit of the stem, and third from the fountain is the stream from the river, and thrid from the sun is the apex of the ray."" -Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 8, 5 (about 213 AD) and ""I believe that the Spirit proceeds not otherwise than from the Father through the Son"" -Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 4, 1 (about 213 AD) And as St. Thomas showed in his Summa Theologica Part 1, Question 36, Articles 2 and 3, there is no contradiction between the two methods of generation, and in fact, the two methods of reckoning the procession emphasize what St. Augustine, among others taught, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, but He proceeds from the Father in a more preeminent way. ""For whatever the Son has, He has from the Father, certainly He has it from the Father that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him ... For the Father alone is not from another, for which reason He alone is called unbegotten, not, indeed, in the Scriptures, but in the practice of theologians, and of those who employ such terms as they are able in a matter so great. The Son, however, is born of the Father; and the Holy Spirit proceeds principally from the Father, and since the Father gives to the Son all that He has without any interval of time, the Holy Spirit proceeds jointly from both Father and Son. He would be called Son of the Father and of the Son if, which is abhorent to everyone of sound mind, they had both begotten Him. The Spirit was not begotten by each, however, but proceeds from each and both."" -St. Augustine of Hippo, The Trinity, 15, 26, 47 (400 to 416 AD) So, in a sense, all of the formulations are correct (to the West at least), because the Holy Spirit proceeds from both Father and Son, but in proceeding from the Son, the orgin of that procession is the procession from the Father, so the Holy Spirit is proceeding from the Father through the Son, but as all that the Son has is from the Father, the Holy Spirit can be said to proceed from the Father, without any mention of the Son being necessary. In any case, I am happy to know that I follow in the beliefs of Pope St. Leo I, St. Fulgence of Ruspe, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Pope St. Damsus I, St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Epiphanius of Salamis, St. Ambrose of Milan, St. Hilary of Poitiers, Tertullian, and others among the Fathers, who all have very quotable quotes supporting the Catholic position, which I enunciated above. As for the issue of the adoption of another Creed being forbidden, I will point out that the Holy Fathers of Ephesus and Chalcedon both spoke of the Creed of Nicea in their statement forbidding anyone ""to produce, write, or compose a confession of faith other than the one defined by the Fathers of Nicea."" That Creed is a different Creed than that of Constantinople, which is commonly called the Nicene Creed. Not of course in that they were condemning the adoption of the Constantinopolitan Creed, which is but an enlargement upon the Creed of Nicea, but that they were condemning the impious opinions of Nestorious, who had adopted a radically different Creed from the one used by the Church, which among other things denied the procession of the Holy Spirit form the Son. Thus, the additions of the Constantinopolitan Creed were not thought to be in violation of this, and as the Council Chalcedon also affirmed the doctrine of the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Son, which Nestorius denied, they could hardly have been against explaining in a fuller way the Creed, for they themselves approved of previous additions to it. And if the further explanations of the Creed made in Constantinople were not denigrating of the work done by the Holy Fathers of Nicea or in any way heretical, it follows that the Council of Toledo was fully able to add what was not disputed by the faithful to the Creed so as to combat the impieties of the Arians in Spain, because the filioque was not in dispute in the Church until many years later under Photius and others. And that the filioque was not disputed, I provide more quotes below. ""Since the Holy Spirit when he is in us effects our being conformed to God, and he actually proceeds from the Father and Son, it is abundantly clear that He is of the divine essence, in it in essence and proceeding from it."" -St. Cyril of Alexandria, The Treasury of the Holy and Consubstantial Trinity, Thesis 34, (423-425 AD) ""The Holy Spirit is not of the Father only, or of the Son only, but he is the Spirit of the Father and the Son. For it is written: `If anyone loves the world, the Spirit of the Father is not in him'; and again it is written: `If anyone, however, does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.' When the Father and the Son are named in this way, the Holy Spirit is understood, of whom the Son himself says in the Gospel, that the Holy Spirit `proceeds from the Father,' and that `He shall receive of mine and shall announce it to you.'"" -Pope St. Damasus I, The Decree of Damasus, 1 (382 AD) ""The only-begotten Holy Spirit has neither the name of the Son nor the appelation of Father, but is called Holy Spirit, and is not foreign to the Father. For the Only-begotten Himself calls Him: `the Spirit of the Father,' and says of Him the `He proceeds from the Father,' and `will receive of mine,' so that He is reckoned as not being foreign to the Son, but is of their same substance, of the same Godhead; He is Spirit divine, ... of God, and He is God. For he is Spirit of God, Spirit of the Father, and Spirit of the Son, not by some kind of synthesis, like soul and body in us, but in the midst of Father and Son of the Father and of the Son, a third by appelation.... ""The Father always existed and the Son always existed, and the Spirit breathes from the Father and the Son; and neither is the Son created nor is the Spirit created."" -St. Epiphanius of Salamis (which is on Cyprus), The Man Well-Anchored, 8 and 75 (374 AD) ""Concerning the Holy Spirit, I ought not to remain silent, nor yet is it necessary to speak. Still, on account of those who do not know Him, it is not possible for me to be silent. However it is necessary to speak of Him who must be acknowledged, who is from the Father and the Son, His Sources."" -St. Hilary of Poitiers, The Trintiy, 2, 29 (356 to 359 AD) Thus, as I have pointed out before, Gaul, Spain, Italy, Africa, Egypt, Palastine, and the lands of the Greeks, all of Christnedom at that time, all have Fathers who can be cited to show that they confess the doctrine expressed by the filioque. I suggest to those of the Orthodox Church that they come up with some of the Fathers, besides St. John of Damascus who all will admit denied the filioque, to support their views. It is not enough to bring up the ""proceeds from the Father"" line of the Creed or the Gospel of John, for that says what we believe also. But it does not say the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son, only that He does proceed from the Father. Andy Byler ",15 "Re: How do you build neural networks? In article <1rbs1e$m6s@insti.physics.sunysb.edu> mmoss@ic.sunysb.edu (Matthew D Moss) writes: > > Subject says it all, though I should specify that I'm looking for solutions > that DON'T require me purchasing specific chips, etc.... > First you find a congenial member of the opposite sex ... > -- Thomas Clarke Institute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL 12424 Research Parkway, Suite 300, Orlando, FL 32826 (407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ucf.edu I couldn't resist :-) ",12 ">>>WANTED: Your opinions on the Insight Talon TA-1000 or TA-2000 Multimedia kits<<< For those of you who might be familiar with Insight Distribution Network, Inc. and their Multimedia Kits: I'm seriously considering buying the Insight Talon TA-2000 MM Kit, which is bundled with the CD-ROM drive with 265-280ms access time, 300Kb dtr, multispin, multi-session Photo CD capability, etc., and with the PAS-16 sound card, etc.... (if you are familiar with Insight, you know the kit I mean). I believe the drive is either a Texel (265ms) or an NEC (280ms), but it is not clear to me which one is actually a part of the bundle (at least two of their sales people couldn't give me a straight answer as to which one; ah, yes, one of the drawbacks of OEM!). Other questions: - Excuse my ignorance, but is ""Texel"" a reputable maker in the CD-ROM market? Or do you think NEC is the better drive? - Bottom line: Is this kit worth the money? (Currently, $449 for the TA-1000, and $699 for the TA-2000) Alternatively, I was thinking that the TA-2000 might be overkill for my uses (however, I *do* want full multimedia capabilities, Photo CD stuff, educational programs for my kids, etc.), and considered the lower-end TA-1000 kit and using the difference (around $250.00) to get something else useful, like a tape back-up drive unit. Basically, I would just like to hear from those who have actually USED these kits, and whatever pros/cons you might advise, preferably directly to the email address below. Thanks, Koji 2 _/ ~~~~~~~~~~_/~~~~~~~~~~_/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | _/ _/ | Koji Kodama | | by _/ _/ | Nippon Motorola Ltd. | | _/ _/ | ryvg90@email.sps.mot.com | | _/ _/ |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | _/_/ _/ | NOTE: The opinions expressed herein | | _/ _/ | are mine, and do not reflect the opinions | | _/ _/ |or policies of Motorola Inc. or its affiliates.| ~~_/~~~~~~~~~~_/~~~~~_/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _/_/_/ ",3 "Contracts ** For my computer law module I have been asked to write a computer contract for the supply of computer software to a business. The software is being especially written for the company. Would anyone, per chance happen to have a copy of a computer contract on their system which they could mail me. If anyone has a computer contract but it contains sensitive material then I can assure them that it will remain confidential and I will not pass it on, or allow anyone else to view it. Thanks. -- T 3/4 c2 l1(s) hbl d- a w+ c- y e++ g f t+ k++ s++ m1+ * Graham Wilson * lsg001@cck.coventry.ac.uk * * LL.B. Law III * Coventry University * S8 b+ g- l-- y+ z/ n-- o++ x+ a- u+ v- j++ ",12 "Re: UHC SVR4.0.3.6 forsale.. In article larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes: >darylm@illian.mnet.com (Daryl V. McDaniel) writes: ... > >considering the conversation about UHC on the net, I wouldn't say $1K is >a good deal -- considering the package is inflated in price to start with > >-- >Larry Snyder >larry@gator.rn.com What problems have you had with UHC? I have been using their OS for 2 years and have had very few problems. -- Eddie D. Tuggle, etuggle@dora.auc.trw.com | ""There is nothing either good or TRW Denver Operations | bad, but thinking makes it so."" 16201 Centretech Pky / Aurora, CO 80011 | -- SHAKESPEARE Voice: 303.360.4001 FAX: 303.360.4133 | ",6 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is markp@avignon (Mark Pundurs) writes: >mathew writes: >>markp@elvis.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes: >>> In <930415.112243.8v6.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk >>> (mathew) writes: >>> > There's no objective physics; Einstein and Bohr have told us that. >>> >>> Speaking as one who knows relativity and quantum mechanics, I say: >>> Bullshit. > >>Speaking as someone who also knows relativity and quantum mechanics, I say: >>Go ahead, punk, make my day. My degree can beat up your degree. > > OK, refer us to the place in Einstein's (or Bohr's) writings where > he said 'there's no objective physics.' Ah, you taking everything as literal quotation. No wonder you're confused. First, can I ask that we decide on a definition of ""objective""? >>>>There's no objective reality. LSD should be sufficient to prove that. >>> >>> Speaking as one who has taken LSD, I say: >>> Bullshit. > >>Well, I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge on that one, but I think I >>detect a pattern in your responses. How about some actual support for your >>dismissals? > > You take LSD, and it skews your perception of reality. You come down, > and your perceptions unskew. And? >>> How could striving toward an ideal be in any way useful, if the ideal >>> had no objective existence? > >>A perfectly efficient power station would convert all of the energy in coal >>into electricity. There is absolutely no way we can build a perfect power >>station; it's an ideal. But striving towards that ideal is undeniably >>useful and valuable, is it not? > > OK, let me narrow the question. Is it useful to strive toward a > (nonexistent) objective ethics? I'd guess that it might be. > In what way? It may be the case that some people are unable to evaluate complex moral issues. Rather than leaving them to behave ""immorally"", it might be better to offer them an abstract (nonexistent objective) system of ethics which they can strive towards, coded into rules which they don't have to derive for themselves. I tend to feel that this is pretty much what we all have as morality anyway... mathew ",19 "NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 23 APRIL 1993 NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 23 APRIL 1993: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS BEST OF SEVEN PATRICK ADAMS NORRIS SMYTHE NJ BUF (leads 3-0) STL (leads 3-0) WIN PIT (leads 3-0) BOS CHI VAN (leads 2-1) NYI (leads 2-1) MON TOR LA WAS QUE (leads 2-1) DET (leads 2-1) CAL (tied 2-1) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Detroit Red Wings (lead series 2-1) 0 1 1 - 2 Toronto Maple Leafs 2 0 2 - 4 Dave Andreychuk scored his first two playoff goals for Toronto and Felix Potvin stopped 34 of 36 Red Wing shots as the Maple Leafs won their first win in the series. First period-- 1, Toronto, Andreychuk 1 (Foligno,Gilmour), 4:21. 2, Toronto, Andreychuk 2 (Gilmour), 7:37. Second period-- 3, Detroit, Fedorov 2 (Coffey,Sheppard), 1:20 (pp). Third period-- 4, Toronto, Clark 1 (Gilmour,Mironov), 4:44 (pp). 5, Toronto, Pearson 1 (Clark,Cullen), 9:32. 6, Detroit, Chiasson 2 (Konstantinov, Fedorov), 14:14. Shots on goal-- Detroit 9-19-8--36. Toronto 13-8-12--33. Power-play opportunities-- Detroit 1 of 5; Toronto 1 of 8. Goalies-- Detroit, Cheveldae, 2-1 (33 shots-29 saves). Toronto, Potvin, 1-2 (36-34). A--15,720. Referee-- Mark Faucette. Linesmen-- Kevin Collins, Brian Murphy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chicago Blackhawks 0 0 0 - 0 St. Louis Blues (lead series 3-0) 1 1 1 - 3 Curtis Joseph blanked the Blackhawks for the second straight game and Brett Hull scored a goal and added an assist to lead the Blues to a 3-0 series lead. Chicago hasn't scored in 131:09 of play since Brian Noonan's hat-trick goal in game 1. First period-- 1, St. Louis, Janney 1 (Hull,Brown), 16:53 (pp). Second period-- 2, St. Louis, Hull 3 (Miller), 12:31. Third period-- 3, St. Louis, Emerson 1 (Felsner,Shanahan), 16:44. Shots on goal-- Chicago 9-12-13--34. St. Louis 7-13-4--24. Power-play opportunities-- Chicago 0 of 4; St. Louis 1 of 7. Goalies-- Chicago, Belfour, 0-3 (24 shots-21 saves). St. Louis, Joseph, 3-0 (34-34). A--17,985. Referee-- Dan Marouelli. Linesmen-- Randy Mitton, Shane Heyer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vancouver Canucks (lead series 2-1) 1 2 1 - 4 Winnipeg Jets 3 0 2 - 5 Teemu Selanne broke out of his mini-slump with a hat trick, including the game-winner, to lead the Jets to a 5-4 victory. Trevor Linden and Pavel Bure each scored twice for the losing Canucks. First period-- 1, Winnipeg, Tkachuk 1 (Housley), 3:52. 2, Winnipeg, Selanne 1 (Housley,Shannon), 7:01 (pp). 3, Vancouver, Bure 2, 18:29. 4, Winnipeg, Selanne 2 (Shannon,Housley), 19:57 (pp). Second period-- 5, Vancouver, Linden 2 (Ronning,Lumme), :14. 6, Vancouver, Linden 3 (Adams,Slegr), :59 (pp). Third period-- 7, Winnipeg, Borsato 1 (Steen), 2:53 (sh). 8, Winnipeg, Selanne 3 (Shannon), 9:35. 9, Vancouver, Bure 3 (Babych,Lidster), 15:52. Shots on goal-- Vancouver 18-9-10--37. Winnipeg 13-8-8--29. Power-play opportunities-- Vancouver 1 of 8; Winnipeg 2 of 6. Goalies-- Vancouver, McLean, 2-1 (29 shots-24 saves). Winnipeg, Essensa, 1-2 (37-33). A--15,569. Referee-- Kerry Fraser. Linesmen-- Gord Broseker, Dan Schachte. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Calgary Flames (lead series 2-1) 2 1 2 - 5 Los Angeles Kings 0 1 1 - 2 (Boxscore tomorrow) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saturday, 24 April 1993: Washington at NY Islanders (NY Islanders lead series 2-1), 7:40pm EST Boston at Buffalo (Buffalo leads series 3-0), 7:40pm EST Quebec at Montreal (Quebec leads series 2-1), 8:10pm EST Sunday, 25 April 1993: Pittsburgh at New Jersey (Pittsburgh leads series 3-0), 1:10pm EST Chicago at St. Louis (St. Louis leads series 3-0), 1:10pm EST Calgary at Los Angeles (Calgary leads series 2-1), 3:10pm EST Detroit at Toronto (Detroit leads series 2-1), 7:10pm EST Vancouver at Winnipeg (Vancouver leads series 2-1), 9:10pm EST -JPC -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John P. Curcio Go Bruins! Philips Laboratories jpc@philabs.philips.com 345 Scarborough Road (914) 945-6442 Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510 ",10 "Windows Shareware Monthly (INFORMATION) Windows Shareware Monthly (WSM) is an on-line forum for information about the newest and best Windows 3.x and NT shareware/freeware software. WSM is a compilation of submissions from shareware/freeware authors in a single Windows .HLP (Help System) file. All types of software may be submitted for entry in WSM - utilities, applications, games, programming tools, etc. WSM benefits Windows shareware/freeware authors by allowing them to publicize their software releases, inform users of updated versions, and to increase their installed base of users. Those searching for specific Windows software will benefit by having a complete list of available software available at their fingertips - complete with feature lists, current prices, and any other relevant information. Windows software authors may submit entries to Windows Shareware Monthly in the following manner: 1. Compose a short summary of the function of the software. Include all special features which are unique to your product and which set it apart from other programs in the genre. Be sure to include specific details such as: the current release version, where the software is available, how much the registration fee costs, how much disk space is required, any special requirements (e.g. sound card, or VBRUN200.DLL, etc.), how the author may be contacted, etc. Because text is highly compressible, the summary may be as long as is necessary, however, it is best to keep it short. A good guideline is a single screenful of 12-point text at 640x480 resolution. Order forms and other such addendum may be included if desired. All submissions whould be in plain text (ASCII) format. Formatting will be exactly as it is submitted - I will simply cut and paste text files into a Help Authoring system. If you require special formatting conventions - such as boldface text or italics, or a larger font size, indicate so CLEARLY within the text file. For best results, use Windows NotePad to create the .TXT file. 2. Include up to 100k of Windows-format .BMP (bitmap) screen-shots which display the workings or special features of each program. Special cases (rendering applications for example) which require 256-color bitmaps may submit up to 250k of .BMP files - all other should observe the 100k limit and use 16-color format. For maximum compatiblity with the software which will be used to create the WSM .HLP file (Stefan Olson's Help Writer's Assistant for Windows), please save the bitmaps with Windows Paintbrush or WinGIF. 3. Include a 16-color .BMP of the program's icon (.ICO file). Many programs are available to convert .ICO to .BMP format, or Windows Paintbrush may be used. The .BMP will be embedded in the summary text. 4. Double-check for spelling errors, formatting corrections, etc. 5. Compress the .TXT file, the .BMP of the program icon, and any additional .BMPs into a single file using PKZIP (any version). 6. Submit the entry by UUENCODING the .ZIPfile, and e-mailing it to: DAA7365@TAMUTS.TAMU.EDU if submitting via the Internet or Compuserve. If submitting via America Online, send a brief message indicating submission, and append the .ZIP file, then e-mail to: DiegoAA 7. If any changes are required, or a new version is released, complete the above procedures again. Send all submissions to the @TAMUTS address, and any comments, suggestions, criticisms, to DAA7365@RIGEL.TAMU.EDU. All entries received before the deadline will be included in the subsequent edition of WSM. The editor will not be held responsible for any errors, and we reserve the right to make changes to the entries. WSM is not limited to shareware/freeware software. A special area will be devoted to commercially available Windows 3.x and NT software. Commercial software authors should follow the same steps above, with the exception of the limitations on size - the .TXT file and .BMPs may be as large as required (and as large as is practical for transmission over phone lines). There is no charge for the publishing of either shareware/freeware or commercial product entries. Advertisements for computer hardware, software, bulletin boards, etc. may be submitted as well. Again, the same procedures apply, with the exception of the size limitations. There is no charge for advertising space. The first ten advertisements submitted each month will be included; subsequent submissions will not be included due to size constraints. WSM is currently looking for persons willing to devote the time to author columns within WSM. A C/C++ programing section, a Visual Basic section, and two Windows-specific opinion/advice columns are envisioned. All work will be on a voluntary basis. If you wish to aid WSM and author a monthly column on one of the above topics, please send us mail at DAA7365@TAMUTS.TAMU.EDU or DiegoAA on America Online. The first edition of WSM will be distributed May 1st via America Online, Compuserve, and the Internet. The deadline for submissions is April 28th. The first edition filename will be WSM-1.ZIP, with each subsequent monthly release continuing in the series naming convention (WSM-2.ZIP, etc.). Each edition will be released on the first of each month, and the deadline for submission will be at least three days before release. ",2 "IBM software for sale, cheap! For Sale...: Three software packages for IBM PC and compatible computers: o Wing Commander deluxe edition o Includes Secret Missions 1 & 2 o Includes all original packaging, manuals and disks o Includes registration card (so you can send it in and register it in your name) o Original price for Wing Commander: $69.95 o Original price for Secret Missions I: $29.95 o Original price for Secret Missions II: $29.95 o Total original price: $129.85 o My asking price for all these of these games TOGETHER is $65.00 o Wing Commander and the Secret Missions is a battle and flight simulator set in space. It includes all the standard fun things about flight simulators, like taking off and landing on carriers, flying -- of course -- and better yet, it is also a battle simulator. It is a lot of fun, indeed. o An IBM PC or compatible with at least 640K, and dual floppies or a hard drive is required. o WinWay Resume for Windows o Includes all original packaging, manuals and disks o Original price: $50.00 o My asking price: $35.00 o WinWay Resume is a resume writing program for Windows. It is an excellent program (it got me a job!) and running under the Window's interface makes it very, very easy to use. All you do is answer a few questions, and print out the results. In just a few minutes, you have a beautifully and professionally designed resume. o An IBM PC with Windows 3.0 or later installed and 1 MB of free hard disk space is required. o More Typefaces o Includes all original packaging, manuals and disks o Original price: $99.99 o My asking price: $30.00 o More Typefaces is a package of three TypeType font families (for a total of twelve fonts) for Windows 3.1. The fonts included are: Marque, Crystal and Architech, and of course italic, bold and bold italic versions are included with all those fonts. Because of the unique font software included with the package, these fonts can be used with either the MoreFonts typeface program, Adobe Type Manager, TrueType, GeoWorks, Express Publisher and CorelDRAW. o An IBM PC with Windows 3.1 and a hard disk is required if you want to use the typefaces in TrueType format. For all other formats, an IBM PC and a hard disk with one of the programs listed above is required. If you are interested in any of these programs, please either leave me email or call Kirk Peterson at (303) 494-7951, anytime. If I don't answer, leave me a message on my answering machine and I'll call you back. I will pay the shipping on all of the programs to anywhere in the continental United States. Thank you! ",6 "Re: Box score abbrev woes scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes: >In article <1993Apr15.195452.14672@scott.skidmore.edu> jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff) writes: >>Can anybody figure out why some box score abbreviations make >>absolutely no sense? (At least in the local Gannett rag that finds its way >>to my door.) I must have stared at ""Cleman"" in the Mets' box for a >>good 30 seconds this morning wondering who the hell it was. Wouldn't >>it make more sense to use ""Colemn""? >I've seen it as ""Colmn"" also. >Blame the Associated Press. After the official scorer balances the >official score card, they copy it and give it to several diffent people. >One of those is a person from AP whose job it is to type it up (using a >template on a laptop) and transmit it to the AP offices in New York >(Rockefeller Center) via the telephone. The box scores are not checked >and just rebroadcasted over AP's news delivery services. If there are >corrections, those are issued later. It is the person sitting in front >of a laptop at Shea (or whereever) whose fault that is. [NOTE: The AP >puts out boxscores in three different formats with the one you see in >most newspapers being the first one] Not totally true. For the past year or two, the AP has been getting box scores from STATS, Inc. The AP representative in the press box is actually a STATS reporter ($25 dollars a game, but free parking. And anybody can do it.) The box is downloaded to STATS in Chicago, some quick error checking is done, and then STATS sends it to the AP. I'm not sure where the appreveiations come in hear. I don't think it is at STATS's. It may just be a space correction by the AP sports editor that day. While I'm mentioning STATS reporters, they are always looking for new people. Especially if you live in Cleveland or Pittsburgh, you're road to getting into the press box may be real short. For more info, call STATS (708) 676-3322, and ask about the reporter network. It's a fun way to get paid for watching baseball games. End of public service announcement. >Last week they were in Denver. Maybe the AP person in Denver did this >(remember, they just started with MLB out there). Check tomorrow's >paper (4/21) and see if the person who is doing it from Shea does the >same thing. >-- Noel Rappin noel@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu ",9 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. Re: Space billboards Even easier to implement than writing messages on the Moon, once upon a time a group of space activists I belonged to in Seattle considered a ""Goodyear Blimp in orbit"". The idea was to use a large structure that could carry an array of lights like the Goodyear Blimp has. Placed in a low Earth orbit of high inclination, it could eventually be seen by almost everyone on Earth. Only our collective disapproval of cluttering up space with such a thing stopped us from pursuing it. It had quite feasible economics, which I will not post here because I don't want to encourage the idea (if you want to do such a thing, go figure it out for yourself). Dani Eder -- Dani Eder/Meridian Investment Company/(205)464-2697(w)/232-7467(h)/ Rt.1, Box 188-2, Athens AL 35611/Location: 34deg 37' N 86deg 43' W +100m alt. ",14 "NIKKOR 70-210 AF forsale Nikkor AF 70-210 f/4-5.6 zoom lens. Excellent condition. I'm looking to get the 2.8 version so I'm selling this. Asking $175 No offers please. ",6 "Re: Pantheism & Environmentalism In article heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes: > > I realize I'm entering this discussion rather late, but I do >have one question. Wasn't it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a >pentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the interior >who saw no problem with deforestation since we were ""living in the >last days"" and ours would be the last generation to see the redwoods >anyway? I heard the same thing, but without confirmation that he actually said it. It was just as alarming to us as to you; the Bible says that nobody knows when the second coming will take place. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",15 "I think I am going to cry again Yankees lose it again I can't believe this, Howe has an ERA in the 80's He is improving!!! Key pitches a GREAT game, and they screw it up AGAIN. ",9 "Re: Jack Morris In <1993Apr19.024222.11181@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes: >Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their >fingers. Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his >future. Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best >signing. And don't tell me Boston will win this year. They won't >even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th. Yeah Valentine, how many rings does Clemens have? Nothin' like good old fashioned Canadian logic... BTW: The only good thing I can say about the Jay's rotation this year is that it could have been worse. Stewart might have stayed healthy. -- cordially, as always, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ""So many morons... rm ...and so little time."" ",9 "40 Meg IDE Harddrive Western Digital 3.5"" IDE 40 Meg Hard drive. $95 or BO. + shipping Greg Holdren (916)785-7481 gregh@hprnd.rose.hp.com geh@mothra.rose.hp.com ",6 "Problems with parallel I/O. I writing a program that uses the parallel port. My problem is that I need to generate an interrupt when the ack line is pulsed. I can get this to occur once, but am unable to generate succesive interrupts. Can someone suggest how I may resolve this problem. Thanks. ",3 "Re: Why do people become atheists? Undoubtedly people adopt atheism for many reasons, but I suspect that a biggie is that the God they've believed in is (in J.B. Phillips's words) ""too small"". If a person's understanding of God is not allowed to grow and develop, it will eventually become inadequate. The grey-haired gentleman on a throne who was a comforting image in childhood becomes a joke. A therapist friend of mine sometimes suggests to her clients that they ""fire God"". What she means by that is letting go of an inadequate understanding of God to make room for a fuller one. But she follows up by encouraging them to ""hire a new one"". My guess is that a lot of folks go through the firing process, but are not adequately supported in the subsequent re-hire. billh ",15 "Re: SMARTDRV AND DBLSPACE In article rcaldrn@med.miami.edu (Richard Calderon) writes: >I just received a Gateway 486/33 with Windows and Dos 6.0. I ran it a few times >with no apparent problems. I decided to give double Space a try. After >compressing the drive, with no problems, I decided to load windows. It took >1 minute 45 Seconds to load after dblspace, 17 seconds before dblspace. I >tinkered a little with the machine and noticed an error message saying >Smartdrive 4.0 cannot work with Dblspace. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The reason for the change from Smartdrv.exe 4.0 included with Windows 3.1 to Smartdrv.exe 4.1 included with DOS 6.0 is COMPATABILITY WITH DBLSPACE. Be sure you are running smartdrv from your DOS directory. ",2 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article <1993Apr15.173951.20173@icf.hrb.com> jek@icf.hrb.com (Joe Karolchik) writes: >(I deleted your name because I don't want to sound accusative in my remark) >> >> On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in >> a small motel >> for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were >> disturbing my >> car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and >> another tenant >> walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. >> Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left. >> >> Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly! >> >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your >alarm? I can think of worse things in the world. Glad you got out of there >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun. If I hear someone screwing with my car (ie, setting off the alarm) and taunting me to come out, you can be damn sure that my Colt Delta Elite will also be coming with me. It's not the screwing with the car that'd get them shot, it's the potential physical danger. If they're taunting like that, it's very possible that they also intend to rob me and/or do other physically harmful things. If they're just screwing around, no harm done. If they're bent on mayhem, they will receive the cure for their lead deficiency; a 180gr. injection @1200 fps...there's no telling what today's violent criminals will do. Death may be the most pleasant outcome... James James P. Callison Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu /\ Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work... The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC ""It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has and all he's ever gonna have."" --Will Munny, ""Unforgiven"" ",7 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH - UPDATE feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes: ><34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> writes: >>In article <1r2d2rINNa7e@hp-col.col.hp.com>, dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff) says: >>>NUT CASE PANICS!!REALIZES HE'S MADE A COMPLETE FOOL OF HIMSELF IN FRONT OF >>>THOUSANDS OF NETTERS!!!BACKS AWAY FROM EARLIER RASH STATEMENTS!!!!GOD HAVE >>>MERCY ON HIM!!!! >I thought we were discussing Koresh here, not President Clinton. >Dave Feustel N9MYI Dave 1 Clinton 0 ",16 "Re: free moral agency dean.kaflowitz (decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) wrote: : > : > I think you're letting atheist mythology : Great start. I realize immediately that you are not interested : in discussion and are going to thump your babble at me. I would : much prefer an answer from Ms Healy, who seems to have a : reasonable and reasoned approach to things. Say, aren't you the : creationist guy who made a lot of silly statements about : evolution some time ago? : Duh, gee, then we must be talking Christian mythology now. I : was hoping to discuss something with a reasonable, logical : person, but all you seem to have for your side is a repetition : of the same boring mythology I've seen a thousand times before. : I am deleting the rest of your remarks, unless I spot something : that approaches an answer, because they are merely a repetition : of some uninteresting doctrine or other and contain no thought : at all. : I have to congratulate you, though, Bill. You wouldn't : know a logical argument if it bit you on the balls. Such : a persistent lack of function in the face of repeated : attempts to assist you in learning (which I have seen : in this forum and others in the past) speaks of a talent : that goes well beyond my own, meager abilities. I just don't : seem to have that capacity for ignoring outside influences. : Dean Kaflowitz Dean, Re-read your comments, do you think that merely characterizing an argument is the same as refuting it? Do you think that ad hominum attacks are sufficient to make any point other than you disapproval of me? Do you have any contribution to make at all? Bill ",0 "Is key escrow enough? >From: denning@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu > Revised, April 21, 1993 >The chips are programmed by Mykotronx, Inc., which calls them the >""MYK-78."" The silicon is supplied by VLSI Technology Inc. >All Clipper Chips are programmed inside a SCIF (Secure Compartmented >Information Facility), which is essentially a vault. The SCIF contains >a laptop computer and equipment to program the chips. About 300 chips >are programmed during a single session. The SCIF is located at >Mykotronx. >ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND DISTRIBUTION NOTICE. This article is based on >information provided by NSA, NIST, FBI, and Mykotronx. Permission to >distribute this document is granted. So, who is Mykotronx, Inc.? It would be nice to know that they are not a front company used by an intelligence or other agency of the U.S. government. While we are at it, the chip design(s) should be examined and verified against silicon to insure no trap doors or hidden protocols exist in silicon, regardless of the security level of the encryption algorithm. There is no proof that the chip won't squeel and role over for someone with the proper knowledge to interrogate it via the communications link. The design examination should be done to the gate level. Also, how does one verify that what you are looking at is reflected in tapeout, or masks? The silicon should be examined as well, the design in hand (a clean room publicly defined clipper chip) can be merged with another design later, or changed between completion and mask out. There is little proof that what you are told is in the chip is all that is in the chip. Put the (verified) masks in escrow, and use them for chip production, use a third escrow party for programming the chips. The government is asking for a lot of blind trust: the encryption algorithm, operating protocols, the agency having physical control of the devices, the silicon implementation. If the government is so trustworthy, why escrow anything? ",11 "Hijaak I have heard some impressive things about Hijakk (for Windows). Currently, I use a shareware program called Graphics Workshop. What kinds of things will Hijaak do that these shareware programs will not do? What has been your experience with Hijaak? Are there other programs that are better? Please email me, if you can help: Wayne Haston HASTON@UTKVX.UTK.EDU Thanks! ",1 "Re: TV Coverage - NHL to blame! sjg3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STEVEN JAY GIBBLE) writes: : [ a whole lot of completely ignorant stuff about Pitt. ] Give this guy a drug test, and some Ridalin whale you are at it. dvb ",10 "Re: Impeach Clinton, Reno On 21 Apr 93 02:59:52 GMT, Glenn R. Stone (gs26@prism.gatech.EDU) wrote: > Fact: It is a federal felony to infringe civil rights under color of > law; where death is involved, this offense carries a penalty > of life in prison. Title 18, 241 and/or 242 seem to apply. 241 is conspiracy (two or more persons) against rights of citizens. 242 is deprivation of rights under color of law. Both call for up to life in prison if death occurs. Reno, Bentsen, and Clinton are probably all principals to the crime (as they are responsible for authorized actions on the part of their subordinates). > Conclusion: We have NO CHOICE, if we are an honest people, but to > impeach Mr. Clinton, and remove Reno from office. You forgot one detail, they should be turned over to the Texas authorities for trial, as the crime was committed there (Article 4, section 2). -- Charles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu Dept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931 ------------------------------------------------------------- ""...when all government... in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the centre of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."" Thomas Jefferson, 1821 ",16 "Anybody out there? I seldom see any posts in this group. Is anyone out there in Christendom listening? If so, why don't we get some dialog going here? Here's a topic to get things started. My daughter's Christian school sends home a weekly update on school related topics. This week they sent something *very* interesting. It was an article written by the leader of a national (US) Christian school organization about a trip he recently made to Jerusalem. While there, he was introduced to one of the rabbis who is working on a project to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem. The article included photos of the many furnishings that have already been made in preparation for furnishing the rebuilt temple according to the specifications given in the Bible. What was even more striking is the fact that the plans for the temple are complete and the group is only awaiting permission from the Israeli government before beginning the building. The other startling fact is the very recent archeological discovery that the original site of the temple is unoccupied and available for building. Previously it has been thought that the original site was underneath what is now a mosque, making rebuilding impossible without sparking a holy war. Now it appears that nothing stands in the way of rebuilding and resuming sacrifices, as the Scriptures indicate will happen in the last days. Although the Israeli government will give the permission to start, I think it is the hand of God holding the project until He is ready to let it happen. Brothers and sisters, the time is at hand. Our redemption is drawing near. Look up! [Postings are in the range of 30 to 50 per day, except weekends. If people aren't seeing that, we've got propagation problems. --clh] ",15 "Re: Conference on Manned Lunar Exploration. May 7 Crystal City higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >(Josh Hopkins) writes: >> I remeber reading the comment that General Dynamics was tied into this, in >> connection with their proposal for an early manned landing. >The General Chairman is Paul Bialla, who is some official of General >Dynamics. >The emphasis seems to be on a scaled-down, fast plan to put *people* >on the Moon in an impoverished spaceflight-funding climate. You'd >think it would be a golden opportunity to do lots of precusor work for >modest money using an agressive series of robot spacecraft, but >there's not a hint of this in the brochure. It may be that they just didn't mention it, or that they actually haven't thought about it. I got the vague impression from their mission proposal that they weren't taking a very holistic aproach to the whole thing. They seemed to want to land people on the Moon by the end of the decade without explaining why, or what they would do once they got there. The only application I remember from the Av Week article was placing a telescope on the Moon. That's great, but they don't explain why it can't be done robotically. >> Hrumph. They didn't send _me_ anything :( >You're not hanging out with the Right People, apparently. But I'm a _member_. Besides Bill, I hang out with you :) -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu ""Find a way or make one."" -attributed to Hannibal ",14 "Compressor Problem I have a stereo compressor-limiter by Audio Logic (Model MT-66). The gates work, but the compressor seems to be gone on one channel, and very weak on the other. I'll probably need an ocsilloscope to trace it down (no pun intended), but if any one with experience with this type of equipment could point me in a certain direction as to where the circuit is most likely to fail, I'd sure appreciate it. -- Robert C. Stephens rob@dexter.psych.umn.edu Human Factors Research Lab University of Minnesota ",12 "Re: FYI - BATF reply on Waco In article <1993Apr20.060635.26568@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: >In article nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) writes: >> The San Francisco Examiner reports that Clinton has issued instructions >>to federal law enforcement that they may not kill or injure anyone to >>resolve the Waco situation. So they've built a fence around the compound, >>and are now seriously considering building up the fence to prison-camp >>levels, pulling out most of the manpower, and waiting however many months >>it takes. > >Well either the Examiner was wrong (as usual) or Clinton lied *again*. Or perhaps David Koresh didn't listen too well?? Just because mistakes were made does not mean the President *lied*. > >Gary > >-- >Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary >Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary >534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary >Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | ** Mark ",16 "Re: News that _I_ missed In article <1sv276$t8d@genesis.MCS.COM>, arf@genesis.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes: |> In article jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: |> >In article <1993May7.175730.12246@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.edu (Brad Hernlem) writes: |> > |> >Why is it, then, that when the British, Iranians and UAE refer to |> >Occupied Territory, they mean territory in dispute in Israel but not |> >in their own affairs? |> |> I suppose for the same reason Jews call the Occupied Territory, Judea and |> Sumaria. It's called propaganda Actually Judea and Samaria are proper geographical names, just like Asia Minor or Lake Michigan. Judea and Samaria are even used in an atlas published in (what used to be) USSR circa 1970 that I have at home. The government of the USSR was of course quite hostile towards Israel and would hardly engage in a pro-Israel propaganda. I would be willing to mail a photocopy of the relevant page to Mr. Schmidling with relevant words underlined to simplify his search, if he promises to report to the net afterwards. |> and if you repeat lies often enough, |> people start to believe it. Mr. Schmidling is to be congtatualted for being living exception to this general rule. For although he is almost without peer in both the number of lies posted and in the number of times he repeats them --- he hasn't found many people who believe his lies (yet ?). |> |> js G. Feygin ",17 "Goalie mask poll update 4/22/93 Curtis Joseph and Ray LeBlanc have made some big moves in the poll recently. Hextall has shown some strong movement as well. Kirk McLean and Tom Barrasso (I can't see why) have been added to the list recently. Keep sending in those votes. Current votes for favorite goalie masks (3pts - 1st, 2pts - 2nd, 1pt - 3rd) Player Team Pts Votes -------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Ed Belfour Chicago 32 15 Curtis Joseph St. Louis 32 13 3. Andy Moog Boston 30 13 4. Brian Hayward San Jose 26 10 5. Ron Hextall Quebec 16 8 6. Grant Fuhr Buffalo 12 5 7. Gerry Cheevers Boston (retired) 11 6 8. John Vanbeisbrouck NY Rangers 10 4 9. Ray LeBlanc USA Olympic 7 3 10. Mike Richter NY Rangers 6 3 11. Manon Rheaume Atlanta (IHL) 5 2 12. Don Beaupre Washington 4 2 Ken Dryden Montreal (retired) 4 2 -------------------------------------------------------------- Others receiving less than 4pts: Mike Vernon (Cal), Clint Malarchuk (Buf/SD,IHL), Tommy Soderstrom (Phil), Tom Barrasso (Pit), Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det), Sean Burke (NJ), Rick Wamsley (Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), Bob Essensa (Win), Glenn Healy (NYI), Tony Espo (Chi), Gilles Gratton (Bos), Rod Stauber (LA), Gump Worsley (Mtl/NYR), Pat Jablonski (TB), Grant Fuhr (Tor), Felix Potvin (Tor), Stephane Beauregard (Win), Mark Fitzpatrick (NYI), Chico Resch (NYI), Kirk McLean (Van) -- GO SKINS! ||""Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite GO BRAVES! || an effect on you?"" - Mike Patton, Faith No More GO HORNETS! || GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu ",10 "******* Cool Demo Now Available on Internet! ********* Bristol Technology announces the availability of its HyperHelp(tm) and Xprinter(tm) demo for downloading. This demo showcases the two products in the form of a diagram editor called DE. Download the demo and see some of these exciting features for yourself: o Complete on-line context sensitive help system. o Printing support for PCL5 and PostScript. o Rotated Text support! o Source code for the demo is provided. The demo is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9). There are two versions of the demo located in the vendor/Bristol directory: Sun - sun4.demo.tar.Z (SunOS 4.x) HP - hp700.tar.Z (HP-UX 8 & 9) If you have any questions about the demo, send an e-mail to: support@bristol.com. If you want another version of the demo (rs6000,etc...) please send an e-mail to: info@bristol.com. Remember to use binary mode! What are HyperHelp and Xprinter? Read on...... --------------------------------------------------------- Bristol Technology is proud to announce version 3.0 of its popular HyperHelp product and version 2.0 of Xprinter. HyperHelp 3.0 ------------- HyperHelp is the de-facto standard for on-line context sensitive help in the Unix marketplace. Through a one line function call, application developers can access the full features of HyperHelp and cut down drastically on their development time. HyperHelp can use the same RTF, project, and bitmap files as the MS Windows Help facility. This allows a documentation department to maintain a single set of help documents portable between MS Windows, Motif and Open Look. HyperHelp can also be authored in FrameMaker. And with HyperHelp 3.0 Bristol introduces its SGML compiler! New features in HyperHelp 3.0 include secondary windows,a character based viewer, segmented bitmaps, SGML support, and an improved History window. Xprinter 2.0 ------------ Xprinter 2.0 allows developers to add sophisticated printer support to their existing/new X based applications very easily. Xprinter uses the Xlib API for both the display and printer. This lets you use the exact same code for drawing and printing. Take a look at the source code for our demo and see Xprinter in action. If you are interested in adding PostScript and PCL5 support to your application, Xprinter is the tool for you! Earlier this year Bristola dn USL signed an agreement that resulted in Xprinter becoming the standard printing technology for UNIX SVR4.2. Feel free to run the demo and let us know what you think about HyperHelp and Xprinter. If you have any questions or comments, send them to us at: info@bristol.com or call us at (203) 438-6969. Happy demoing, The staff at Bristol Technology ",5 "core dump from getcons We are getting a memory fault and a core dump whenever we end a Motif session under Ultrix 4.3, running on a DEC 5000/240. An examintion of the core file leads us to believe it's from getcons. Does anyone know what this is all about? marc -- Marc Wiener | marc@aip.org American Institute of Physics | 500 Sunnyside Blvd. | Voice: (516)576-2329 Woodbury, NY 11797 | Fax: (516)349-7669 ",5 "Re: Rosicrucian Order(s) ?! In a previous article, alamut@netcom.com (Max Delysid y!)) says: > >Can we assume from this statement that you are >unequivocally< saying that >AMORC is not a spin off of OTO? Absolutely. Lewis didn't care for the 1921 O.T.O. charter from Reuss. He had in mind something completely diferent. Crowley and Lewis were very different persons, as you probably know. >.. and that in fact, OTO may well be a spin >off of AMORC?? No. My overstatement, sorry :-) >>Study Harder, >Study Smarter, not Harder! :-) > I ALWAYS DO. ",19 "Re: Blackhawks win!!! In <1993Apr16.140953.5025@vax.cns..edu>, jbrown@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes... >The Hawks win!! Jermey Roenick scored his 50 th goal and the Hawks put the >Leafs in their place, the losers column. If the Leafs can not even beat the >Hawks in a match that had little or no meaning I will hate to see them against >the Wings. > >Oh btw I laugh at rm, that jerky!!! I would appreciate it if you would not refer to Mr. Maynard by his initials. Thanks, see you in the Norris finals. Ron ********** ""And one of my major goals is to leave the next president a new set of things to worry about. I'm getting bored reading the same problems in the paper, decade after decade. I want people to have to deal with new problems."" ... President Bill Clinton 2-4-93 ",10 "Re: Temper tantrums from the 1960's AND 90'S In article <1993Apr17.055654.21764@midway.uchicago.edu>, dave@seaview.bsd.uchicago.edu writes... >In article <1993Apr17.043704.23702@oracle.us.oracle.com> >mfriedma@us.oracle.com (Michael Friedman) writes: >> In article <1993Apr17.023211.23547@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM >writes: >> >In article , phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) >writes... >> >>In article <1993Apr15.195139.29457@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM >writes: >> >>You dumb shit. >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > It's amazing that someone with your limited vocabulary learned >> >how to use a computer. Didn't they require you to take English at the >school >> > where you went? Or are you just crude by nature? >> > >I'm forced to agree with Garrett here. There's no need for vulgarity, >or even hostility. I mean, it's not as though Garrett _asked_ to be born >dumber than a bag of hammers. While it can occasionally be annoying, >there is a noble tragedy to someone with no knowlege of geography or >pre-Madonna history thinking that his political views are worth reading. >Something like a hydroencephalic trying to master nuclear physics. >I was the first to note that the population of the PRC isn't gonna >fit into Cambodia unless you puree them, so there's no need to keep >pounding on that idiocy. There are plenty of other idiocies in his post. >Find your own and stop hogging mine. > At first this kind of ranting annoyed me, but now it's rather entertaining. These kinds of posts don't require ANY facts, logic, or even sense. It's kind of like what 10-year old kids do on the playground. So go on and play. Not everyone on the net is as simple minded as you guys seem to be. >Dave Griffith, Information Resources, University of Chicago, >Biological Sciences Division dave@delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu >Brain damage was what we were after. The chromosome damage was just gravy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""Nothing is as inevitable as a mistake whose time has Garrett Johnson come."" --Tussman Garrett@Ingres.com ""The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action."" - Unknown ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",18 "Re: DeskWriter driver v3.1 problems In article <87439@ut-emx.uucp> Marc Bizer, mlbizer@bongo.cc.utexas.edu writes: > >Has it happened to anyone that while printing a beep is heard and a >message is displayed of the sort ""Such-and-such a window was closed >because the Finder did not have enough memory""? Or am I the only one >suffering from this delusion? > --Marc Bizer This can be solved by going into your system folder and do a Get Info (command I) on the Finder and give it more memory. ",4 "Re: Can men get yeast infections? A woman once told me her doctor told her that I could catch, asymptomatically, her yeast infection from her, then give it back to her, causing a relapse. Probably bogus, but if not, it's another reason to use latex... Steve ",13 "Re: Smiths birthday goal was LEAFS GO ALL THE WAY !!! In article layfield@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Colin Layfield) writes: >In article mwm@aps.anl.gov writes: >>In article 5KL@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca, kwk2chow@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (KEVIN C.) writes: >>> (Thanks for the goals by Steve Smith) >>I don't see why more people don't blame grant fuhr for the goal that smith >>put in his own net, it's common to play the puck back to your own goalie when >>deep in your own end and under little or no pressure from the offensive team. >>If fuhr had been in position the puck would have never crossed the line. >> >>Mike McDowell > >I have to disagree with you on this one. It is anything BUT common. In the >4 or 5 years I have been watching hockey I have NEVER seen this happen EVER. > >I am not sure what league you have been watching. :-) > >Anyone else agree with this? Yes, Colin... I have to agree with you here... I've put the puck in my own net the same way Smith did... (only once, mind you :-) and it was definitely my fault. It is NOT a common play to play the puck the way that Smith did. Luckily, for me... when I did it... it was only a scrimmage :-) Craig ",10 "Re: Protective gear In article <734055654snz@morgan.demon.co.uk>, tony@morgan.demon.co.uk (Tony Kidson) writes: > In article <1993Apr5.151323.7183@rd.hydro.on.ca> jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca writes: >>In article maven@eskimo.com (Norman Hamer) writes: >>>What protective gear is the most important? >> >>I would go for the gloves. There's not a whole lot that you can do in life if >>you have no skin on your hands. > > Yup! Ruins your sex life! YOUR sex life, maybe.... -- Bruce Clarke B.C. Environment e-mail: bclarke@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ",8 "Re: Looking for MOVIES w/ BIKES In article cassidy@elan.rowan.edu (Kyle Cassidy) writes: >In article csundh30@ursa.calvin.edu (Charles Sundheim) writes: >> >>I am assembling info for a Film Criticism class final project. >> >man, every time this thread comes up, i start jumping up and down screaming ' >EASY WHEELS! EASY WHEELS!' but to date, it seems like _i'm_ the only one who' >s ever seen this. it's absolutely hysterical. basic plot is this: > >reporter searching for a ring of babysnatchers is blow off the road by a ( >very hot) gang of babe bikers in leather. he is rescued from his wrecked car >in the desert by a xtian gospal biker band lead by an ex viet-nam vet with a >steel plate in his head that gives him visions from time to time. they soon >discover that the gang 'o babes is kidnapping children to be raised by >wolves (the reasoning behind this is complex), and they set out to stop them >and restore justice and order to the world. > >it is one of the 5 funniest movies i have ever seen in my life. > >-- >kyle cassidy >cassidy@rowan.edu ""fire all of your guns at once!"" >DoD #760 I actually saw this movie about three months ago, but it wasn't called EASY WHEELS. It was something else that escapes me at the moment but I did rent it from Blockbuster Video and it was a hoot, in the same class as Plan 9 From Outer Space. -- Jim Groh groh@sig.cs.fsu.edu | DoD #0356 | Hog# 0437643 |new improved 1959 XLH 900 ** 1982 FXR ** 1989 XLH 883 ** 1990 XLH 1200 | smaller sig ",8 "Re: Clipper chip -- technical details Thus said djb@silverton.berkeley.edu (D. J. Bernstein): >Short summary of what Bellovin says Hellman says the NSA says: There is >a global key G, plus one key U_C for each chip C. The user can choose a >new session key K_P for each phone call P he makes. Chip C knows three >keys: G, its own U_C, and the user's K_P. The government as a whole >knows G and every U_C. Apparently a message M is encrypted as >E_G(E_{U_C}(K_P),C) , E_{K_P}(M). That's it. > >The system as described here can't possibly work. What happens when >someone plugs the above ciphertext into a receiving chip? To get M >the receiving chip needs K_P; to get K_P the receiving chip needs U_C. >The only information it can work with is C. If U_C can be computed >from C then the system is cryptographically useless and the ``key >escrow'' is bullshit. Otherwise how is a message decrypted? Given the description of the algorithm given, the only plausible explantion I can find is that K_P must be agreed to out of bandwidth in advance by the two parties; i.e. it's a standard shared symmetric key. -- Marc VanHeyningen mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu MIME & RIPEM accepted Security through Diversion: n. Theory which states that the public availability of good computer games is vital to maintaining system safety. Contrast Security through Obscurity. ",11 "Re: Happy Birthday Israel! In article , eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes: |> >In article <1993Apr27.011549.7010@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> Hamid Reza Mohammadi Daniali writes: You deliberately deleted a line! I don't remember how wrote it, but I remember what he wrote. He wrote Happy 45 birth day of Israel! and I worte: |> |> >[HAMID] Anybody has any information about the number of the people have been |> >[HAMID] killed by Israel during these 44 HAPPY YEAR? |> |> Not sure. But the number of Israelis killed defending Israel is a little more |> than 17,000 in the last 45 years and 61,000 injured. |> Is this means that the number of the people have been killed by Israel are so high that you can not keep the track of, or this is also a part of Zionism ideology that you don't need to keep the track of the people you kill? Just kill! Hamid |> You must try to make a mockery out of everything, don't you? Pathetic. |> |> Ed. |> ",17 "Re: Proof of the Viability of Gun Control In article <1993Apr20.224730.2098@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes: >: My comments were directed against those who see these sorts >: of incidents as proof that rights as we know them are about to >: vanish. > >Many rights have disappeared. For example, the right to destroy your >own body in any way you desire (as long as you do not injure others >or their property in the process) is just about gone. And what's your evidence that you had more such rights in 1932? In those days people were ROUTINELY sent off to the county home for the feeble-minded/confused if they showed the slightest weirdness. Remember all the jokes people used to make about ""the guys in the white coats and the big butterfly net"" coming to ""take you away""? That sort of thing used to really happen. Nowadays you can be a total loon and end up living, and dying, on the street. ---peter ",16 "Re: Honor (was: A Parable For You) While mark claims that his honor would demand that he apologize, it seems that he would apologieze *if* he were wrong, which takes seeing that he would be wrong in some situation or other. Woolfie (lupus would be a cool name for a child) points out that his brother would see himself as honorable, and not see his mother's point of view. My sister has played go between, twixt me and my mother, since I can't seem to find words that my mother understands on some issues of boundaries, and such personal things. Not that we dont talk, or anything quite so drastic, but that it can be hard to reconsile two points of view.. thanks, wolfie, i see some of your point.. and mark, i may see yours, but it doesnt quite follow the same path, to me, as wolfe's.. sheil ",19 "Esotericism I'm compiling a bibliography on religious perspectives on esotericism, hermeticism, gnosticism, mysticism, occultism, alchemy and magic, and am interested in sources that others have found particularly interesting and insightful. I'm especially interested in medieval works, such as _The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz_ and Arthurian legends. Please feel free, too, to send personal opinions on any of the above, pro or con or anywhere in between. Thanks much. Stephen Twelker twelker@ide.com ",15 "Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity In article revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes: > It was the manifestation of the spirit among the gentiles >that convinced Peter (Acts 10) that his prejudice against them (based on >scripture, I might add) was not in accordance with God's intentions. I would just like to point out that the particular command not to eat or fellowship with Gentiles is not found in the Old Testament. This was part of the ""hedge built around the law."" It was a part of Peter's tradition, and not the Scripture. Link Hudson. ",15 "The lessons of the NAZIs Re: David Irving - Scholastic fraud In responding to the post below I have considered issues far outside the scope of revisionism and principally have considered the political implications of a racist ideology and its inevitable outcome. Thus it is tangentially relevant to soc.history and alt.revisionism but I have directed followups to t.p.m since it is principally consideration of the political lessons to be drawn from the history of the NAZI party that I deal with. In article <1993Apr14.121823.21851@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes: |>As Dawidowicz points out, in ""The Holocaust and the Historians,"" (Harvard |>University Press, 34-38): |> |>""...the nadir in Hitlerology is reached by David Irving's ""Hitler's |>War.""<34> An amateur historian, whose reputation as a German apologist and |>as a writer without regard for accuracy or truth won him a measure of |>notoriety, <35> Irving produced a 926-page work intended to show that Hitler |>was kind to his animals and to his secretaries, that he was ""probably the |>weakest _leader_ Germany has known in this century,"" and that he did not |>murder the Jews or even wish to do so, but that the murder was committed |>behind his back, without his knowledge or consent."" Let us assume for the sake of argument that this was indeed the case? Does this mean that Hilter would have been in any way less guilty of mass murder because he aquiesced rather than participated as an active and ardent supporter? One of the important things to realise about the NAZIs is that the system was far more evil than any single member. Once created the NAZI party itself was a murder machine that would inevitably commit genocide, there was noone within it strong enough to prevent it. Remember that Hitler did not originaly lead the NAZI party nor was he particularly powerful within it until his oratory allowed the party to come to power. Had Hitler reneged upon the emotiaonal expectations which he had created within the ranks of his supporters he would have been replaced as he had himself replaced the old guard who he beleived were unable to grasp the intellectual implications of their rhetoric. This is why all parties that espouse NAZI style race supremacy ideologies must be considered as dangerous and as evil as the NAZIs. The idea that one ""race"" of people is inherently superior to another and that the greatest goal of humanity is to achieve racial perfection has only one logical outcome, the gas chambers of Auschwitz. The NAZI party is not simply the tale of a supremely evil single man who lead an entire country astray, beyond the evil of individuals there was the evil of the system itself which was self generating and self perpetuating. Hitler was an extreemly evil person who built his party arround an ego cult centered on the demonstration of his own power, this does not however mean that he was as entirely free from political constraints as he and his propagandists worked so hard to assert. The myth that racism can produce a strong government that can cure a nations ills must be emphatically rejected. In the same way we must accept a distinction between a govenrment that demonstrates its strength and one that is able to govern decisively in the manner it beleives is best. I would accept only the latter as a ""strong"" government since most displays of strength are made necessary by an essential weakness. It is important to understand that the NAZIs were not stupid nor were they amoral in the sense that they lacked moral scruples. They acted in the same manner as the Spanish Inquisition - murder and torture in the cause of morality. The fault of the NAZIs lies in their axioms, not in their logic nor in their implementation of those axioms. Thus all such parties such as the National Front or David Dukes Klu Klux Klan front who assert the truth of those axioms must be considered for what they are, advocates of a system that would commit genocide. The conclusion that Hitler was not only responsible but imensely evil is inescapable from the historical record. It is important though to not let the conclusion be reached that the NAZIs espoused a set of ideas that were basically correct but had an unfortunate proponent. The evils of the concept of race supremacy are primary. Although this most emphaticaly does not excuse individual culpability this is nevertheless secondary. No matter what the promises made by a racist, supremacist party upon election those promises will be broken as soon as circumstances permit. If this requires the replacement of the leaders that originally made the pledges, that will occur. Hatred is a supreme justifier. It also creates a dynamic of its own when those in government allow it reign. For many in government politics is a method of providing a justification for their own existence through a demonstration of their importance. A rhetoric of hatred inevitably develops the question of action since the continued existence of an object of hatred is inevitably a reminder of the essential impotence of the politician. Thus we have the US raid on Tripoli which has little purpose beyond a demonstration of power. It is important to realise that there is no quantum jump between the politics of the right and those of the extreeme right but a progression from the reinforcement of popular predjudice to action being taken on the basis of that predjudice. In the same way the extreeme left trace their route to despotism through their assertion of the subjugation of the individual to ideology. It is important though that in attempting to understand the dynamics of political systems that this is not used to excuse the participants. The leaders of a nation take on a supreme moral burden but not only do so voluntarily are required to stive to do so. Thus to take on such a task without a fundamental examination of the logical progression of ones set of axioms to its conclusion in itself is a moral crime. Furthermore in taking on such a duty one is obliged to put the interest of the whole before personal concerns, even of personal security. Although it was inevitable that a party such as the NAZIs, based upon hatred and an idolisation of the symbols of power should have saught to commit genocide it was not inevitable that they should succeeded. Each member of the system had an ability to create a change within it that had a possibility of changing the dynamic. Realising that the individual cannot hope to control a system does not mean accepting that the individual cannot affect the system. Phill Hallam-Baker Phill Hallam-Baker ",18 "Re: Rosicrucian Order(s) ?! In a previous article, cdcolvin@rahul.net (Christopher D. Colvin) says: > >I guess the San Jose Mercury news is wrong then,... ^^^^^ > No: It is old. You said AMORC *IS*, not *was*... :-) Nothing personal, OK? Good! :-) Maybe you didn't know that it's over by now. There is no more pending legal actions from no where, period. So yes, there was a situation and it has been resolved by BOTH parties. As long as humans handle anything, it is subjected to ""breaking"" :-) BTW, Gary L. Stewart has a P.O. Box in TX calling his org ARC: Ancient Rosae Crucis. I guess he couldn't take the ""MO"" from AMORC :-) Tony ",19 "SONY 8mm camcorder for sale FOR SALE Sony 8mm camcorder model PRO V9 - top-of-the-line a few years ago. - autofocus with macro capability - 6x zoom - 5 lux rating - 360,000-pixel CCD chip, the best made for a 8mm camcorder - AV input/output jacks (all cables included) - RF convertor/switcher for TV without AV input - AC adaptor/charger - 1.5A battery - neck trap - user's manual - mint condition List price for this model was $1600, I paid $1330 mail-order a few years ago. Will sacrifice for $500 or best offer. Reason for sale: upgrade to Hi8 model. ---- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | @ @ @ @ John N. Le (708) 713-4564 | | @ @@ @ @ AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL USA | | @ @ @ @@ @ Email: UUCP: ..!att!ihlpe!jnl | | @@ @ @ @@@@ INTERNET: jnl@ihlpe.att.com | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ",6 "Re: Great Post! (was Re: Candida (yeast) Bloom...) (VERY LONG) In article noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: Hate to wreck your elaborate theory, but Steve Dyer is not an MD. So professional jealosy over doctors who help their patients with Nystatin, etc., can't very well come into the picture. Steve doesn't have any patients. >response to specificially Candida albicans, and I showed a strong positive. >Another question, would everybody show the same strong positive so this test >is essentially useless? And, assuming it is true that Candida can grow Yes, everyone who is normal does that. We use candida on the other arm when we put a tuberculin test on. If people don't react to candida, we assume the TB test was not conclusive since such people may not react to anything. All normal people have antibodies to candida. If not, you would quickly turn into a fungus ball. >This brings up an interesting observation used by those who will deny >and reject any and all aspects of the 'yeast hypothesis' until the >appropriate studies are done. And that is if you can't observe or culture >the yeast ""bloom"" in the gut or sinus, then there's no way to diagnose or >even recognize the disease. And I know they realize that it is virtually >impossible to test for candida overbloom in any part of the body that cannot >be easily observed since candida is everywhere in the body. > >It's a real Catch-22. > You've just discovered one of the requirements for a good quack theory. Find something that no one can *disprove* and then write a book saying it is the cause of whatever. Since no one can disprove it, you can rake in the bucks for quite some time. >>...I have often wondered what an M.D. with chronic >>GI distress or sinus problems would do about the problem that he tells his >>patients is a non-existent syndrome. > That is odd, isn't it? Why do you suppose it is that MDs with these common problems don't go for these crazy ideas? Does the ""professional jealosy"" extend to suffering in silence, even though they know they could be cured if they just followed this quack book? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "Re: ADB woes In article <1993Apr3.010808.3589@afterlife.ncsc.mil> mlbelan@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Mark Belangee) writes: > >Greetings, oh, wise netters.. (Oops.. That's the oracle..Sorry..) > >Anyhow, I have a basic question that I cannot answer.. Just *where* in the >heck can I buy a ADB cable?? Mine on my trackball is shot.. and I haven't >been able to find a replacement anywhere.. Unless I'm looking in the >wrong mail order catalogs.... > >Anyone have any ideas? (Places/prices/just make it myself?) > > >-Mark > >mlbelan@afterlife.ncsc.mil You should be able to pick up an ADB cable at any computer wiring store... I'd give you the address of Alberta Computer cable in Calgary, but a: I'm in Victoria (B.C., Canada) and b: I don't think an address in Calgary would help you too much....basically however I just phoned them up, and they charged me approx. $15 cnd for a custom made ADB extension cable for my mouse. Hope this helps... Dave Maclachlan dmaclach@ra.uvic.ca NightFall Software Inc. ",4 "Gateway 2000 & booting fr *** On 04-20-93 21:56, Tim King had the unmitigated gall to say this: TK> accidentally discovered that if a have a floppy from ONE particular TK> box of diskettets in the A drive when I boot up, rather than getting TK> the ""Non-system diskette"" message, the machine hangs and the CMOS TK> gets overwritten (luckily, Gateway sends a print of the standard Just a wild thought here, but how about this: there is a small boot program on every formatted diskette, whether or not it contains system files. It is this small program that prints the ""Non-System Disk"" error, not DOS. If this program tries to transfer control to a BIOS location that is nonstandard on the Gateway, then it could clear the BIOS. I don't think that the BIOS is overwritten, there is usually a small routine to clear the CMOS area, in case an invalid configuration prevents the machine from booting. I think that the boot code on the Fuji disks may inadvertantly call this routine. Just a thought. ... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear! --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 ---- The Ozone Hole BBS * A Private Bulletin Board Service * (504)891-3142 3 Full Service Nodes * USRobotics 16.8K bps * 10 Gigs * 100,000 Files SKYDIVE New Orleans! * RIME Network Mail HUB * 500+ Usenet Newsgroups Please route all questions or inquiries to: postmaster@ozonehole.com ",3 "Re: ""Proper gun control?"" What is proper gun control? |in L.A., the first recorded survivor of a .357 shot to the heart. That |lady not only killed her attacker, but chased him down to do it! All |four of her shots, fired after SHE had been shot, struck the perp. Atta |girl! The bullet entered her on a downward angle, went through the apex |of her heart, down through the diaphragm, clipped her liver and |destroyed her spleen. It then exited her back leaving a tennis ball |sized hole. She died about six times on the operating table, but was |out of the hospital in 15 days and was back on full duty in eight |months! She was off duty at the time and not wearing her vest. She was |on her way home so happened to have her gun. No, she doesn't think |civilians should have the same rights. Sigh. Well, if police think they are so special that only _THEY_ are worthy of self-defense, perhaps we start putting the arm on police; maybe we should start demanding that police are only police when ON-DUTY, that after that they are just like the ordinary disarmed helpless chumps they consider ""civilians."" Let's prohibit arms carrying by police when off-duty. Or, if they make the assertion that ""Well, I need to maintain my gun"" let's make it regulation that they can carry an UNLOADED firearm home, that it's only fair that they be just as helpless as poor schmuck coming home from his computer operator job... NRA Director/ex-San Jose cop Leroy Pyle states in the latest SWAT magazine that anti-cops better watch out for this schism between RKBA folks and the police. He asks the rhetorical question of 'What if what's left of the gun lobby starts demanding the disarmament of the police?"" Well, I guess anti-gun cops who think only they should be armed, along with the wealthy and politically connected, should be made to realize that screwing can cut in ways they have yet to imagine. ",16 "Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?) In article dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes: >In article noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes: Good grief again. Why the anger? I must have really touched a raw nerve. Let's see: I had symptoms that resisted all other treatments. Sporanox totally alleviated them within one week. Hmmm, I must be psychotic. Yesss! That's it - my illness was all in my mind. Thanks Steve for your correct diagnosis - you must have a lot of experience being out there in trenches, treating hundreds of patients a week. Thank you. I'm forever in your debt. Jon (oops, gotta run, the men in white coats are ready to take me away, haha, to the happy home, where I can go twiddle my thumbs, basket weave, and moan about my sinuses.) -- Charter Member --->>> INFJ Club. If you're dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I'll send info. ============================================================================= | Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | | | JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE | | 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World's Best! | | Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | | ============================================================================= Who are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That's where the action is. ",13 "Re: WACO: Clinton press conference, part 1 cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes: >Could y'all PLEASE stop posting this stuff to tx.general. tx.politics >is sufficient and is where this stuff belongs. Thanks. > Cathy >-- >Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu WHY?????????? ",16 "TDR plug-in I have an HP 1815 TDR plug-in for an HP180 series scope or mainframe that I'm never going to use (no scope any more). If you're interested in it, please let me know. Price? Probably real cheap. This notice may have appeared once before. I posted, and it never showed up on our local server... -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Medin Phone: (205) 730-3169 (w) SSD--Networking (205) 837-1174 (h) Intergraph Corp. M/S GD3004 Internet: dtmedin@catbyte.b30.ingr.com Huntsville, AL 35894 UUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin ******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) ******* * The opinions expressed here are mine (or those of my machine) ",12 "Re: HELP for Kidney Stones .............. Isn't there a relatively new treatment for kidney stones involving a non-invasive use of ultra-sound where the patient is lowered into some sort of liquid when he/she undergoes treatment? I'm sure I've read about it somewhere. If I remember it correctly it is a painless and effective treatment. A couple of weeks ago I visited a hospital here in Stockholm and saw big signs showing the way to the ""Kidney stone chrusher"" ... Mats Winberg Stockholm, Sweden ",13 "Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES In article <1993Apr20.214322.8698@kpc.com> henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes: >In article <1993Apr20.131336@IASTATE.EDU>, oyalcin@IASTATE.EDU (Onur Yalcin) writes: >OY] ...[deleted]... >OY] >OY] If you are really interested, I can provide you with a number of references >OY] on the issue. Just send me EMail for that. > > You think I am that STUPID to ask you for REFERENCES ! NOT ! > I have many GREEK friends that I could ask for the INFO if I > needed. I have already read many articles and DO NOT need > your help. Boy, how generous !! > There is a very narrow margin of stupidity between accepting my references and those of the Greeks, and you just said you'd rather do the latter! That's fine with me. I was sincere in my offer, but this saves me the effort. It doesn't take a half-brained man to go to any library and check out a bunch of sources of decent objectivity. Just ask a good friend for help. !:-) ""Stay on these roads,"" Onur Yalcin -- Onur Yalcin oyalcin@iastate.edu ""Un punto in piu`"" ",17 "Re: AHL Calder Cup Playoff preview Daryl Turner (umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca) wrote: : In article <1993Apr14.193524.25755@news.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy) writes: : > : >ATLANTIC DIVISION : > : > ST JOHN'S MAPLE LEAFS VS MONCTON HAWKS : > MONCTON HAWKS : >See CD Islanders. Moncton is a very similar team to CDI. Low scoring, : >defensive, good goaltending. John Leblanc and Stu Barnes are the only : >noticable guns on the team. But the defense is top notch and : >Mike O'Neill is the most underrated goalie in the league. : > : Bri, as I have tried to tell you since 2 February, Michael O'Neill : might be the most underrated goalie in the AHL, but he ISN'T in the : AHL. He's on the Winnipeg Jets' injury list, as he has been since : his first NHL start against the Ottawa Senators. He's out until : next year after surgery to repair a shoulder separation. : Stu Barnes might be an AHL gun for the Hawks, but he's now the third : line center with the Jets, and has been since mid January or so. Sorry, my memory is gone. I thought that O'Neill got sent back down in February but I must have been given incorrect info. I guess this says it all about Moncton because Barnes is still one of their top 3 or so scorers even though he's been out since January. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Bri Farenell farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu + + AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey Go USA Hockey! + + Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81 '86 '89 '92 + + Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66 '91 '93 + + Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90 '91 + + AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu + + CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS + + PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ",10 "Re: Riceburner Respect In article , hartzler@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com (Jerry Hartzler - CATS) writes: > >duck. Squids don't wave, or return waves ever, even to each > ^^^^^^ > excuse me for being an ignoramus, but what are these. edu-breaths with more riceburner than brain... - Roid ",8 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. In article <1993Apr30.172938.6386@samba.oit.unc.edu> dil.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Dave Laudicina) writes: >>Microsoft is the largest software company on the planet, yet I cannot think >>of even *ONE* computing concept that they innovated and brought to market >>before anyone else. Xerox-PARC/Apple, Osborne, NeXT, GNU and others have >>been pioneers and led the way to the future of computing. What has >>microsoft done to be a technological leader? I posted this question before, >>but I got nary a reply. I make the challenge now to anyone who can come up >>with something-especially Microsoft employees. I get no response this time, >>I guess it pretty much assures me that there is none--which is what I >>suspect anyway. >> >Really when you come down to it who cares. I just hope MS keeps doing >what they do best getting usable productive software to the masses. >Thx Dave L If you think that windows is useable, you must not use it much. Windows version of ""crash protection"" is wearing a helmet while computing. The arir (air) bag is an expensive add-on. Brett > -- Brett D. Sherron-Ferrell email@bferrell@uceng.uc.edu U. of Cincy ""Catch the Cats............ College of Engineering ...............If you can"" ***************** Friends don't let Friends do Windows ********************** Wittism of th week: ""I think that it's wrong to believe in an ism, you should believe in yourself"" Ferrish Bueller ",2 "Orion drive in vacuum -- how? Background: The Orion spacedrive was a theoretical concept. It would be a drive using thermonuclear explosions to drive a spacecraft. The idea was that you'd detonate devices with somewhere from one to ten megatons yield behind a ""pusher plate"" attached to the main spacecraft. The shock wave from the explosions would transfer momentum to the ship. Now, in an atmosphere I can see this. The energy of the explosion heats the atmosphere, which expands explosively and slams a shock wave into the pusher plate. But in a vacuum, only two things I can see are going to hit the plate: fission/fusion products (barium, krypton, helium, neutrons, evaporated bomb casing) and electromagnetic radiation (gammas mostly, some light/heat from irradiated fission products). Would this work? I can't see the EM radiation impelling very much momentum (especially given the mass of the pusher plate), and it seems to me you're going to get more momentum transfer throwing the bombs out the back of the ship than you get from detonating them once they're there. I must be missing something. Would someone enlighten me via email? Thanks. -- --Jim --- Jim Goltz AlterNet Engineer goltz@uunet.uu.net ",14 "Re: BATF Acronym B urn A ll T he F uckers ",16 "Re: Signature Image Database Contact Signaware Corp 800-4583820 800 6376564 -------------------------------- Original Memo -------------------------------- BCC: Vincent Wall From: Imaging Club Subject: Signature verification ? Date Sent: 05/04/93 sci.image.processing From: yyqi@ece.arizona.edu (Yingyong Qi) Subject: Signature Image Database Organization: U of Arizona Electrical and Computer Engineering Hi, All: Could someone tell me if there is a database of handwriting signature images available for evaluating signature verification systems. Thanks. YY ",1 "Re: Israeli destruction of mosque(s) in Jerusalem In article <2BEC0A64.21705@news.service.uci.edu> tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) writes: >This issue has been going on for a while and your presentation here of >just one reference probably won't resolve this issue to those that >oppose your insistence that mosques *were* destroyed. Even in your >location of this one reference, you spend most of your quote dealing >with an incidence that, while abhorrant, has nothing to do with the >issue at hand here. Then, at the end of the quote, there is an almost >off-hand comment that ""two mosques"" were destroyed. > >To support a claim of this nature, what other authors support this >incident? If identifiable mosques were destroyed they are certainly >identifiable, they have names and addresses (steet location). The >comment by one reporter *does* make us wonder if ""this happened"" but >by no means ""proves it. There is no doubt that Israeli authorities ordered the destruction of mosques in the vicinity of the Wailing Wall. That does not mean, however, that once can generalize from this to any other points. The entire plaza, mosques and all, was cleared to make it possible for Jews to have a place to worship in the place that was holiest to many of them, and which had been denied to them for millenia. On the other hand, throughout the rest of Jerusalem and Israel, to the best of my knowledge, Israeli authorities have scrupulously avoided damage to any Islamic religious sites. This contrasts with the policies of previous regimes which destroyed Jewish synagogues out of hate and bigotry. -- ________________________________________ Jack F. Love | Opinions expressed are mine alone. | (Unless you happen to agree.) ",17 "Afterlife Here is another way of looking at it. When we die we are released from the arc of time, and able to comprehend our lives in toto. To visit each moment in time sequentially or all at once, but not able to alter the actions thoughts or feelings we had/have/will have in this life. From that perspective, I posit that all will have direct knowledge of God, and be able to recognize at each moment of time wether we were doing what we ought. That the experience of having lived a life far from God will be an eternal torment. That having lived a life of grace, will be an eternal joy. That the resurrection of the body comes not from any physical reconstitution of our present forms, but knowledge of our present forms by our fully cognizant souls. As an Aside: If we were to be restricted for all time to our present form, would you opt for immortality? James Sledd think in n dimensions & listen for the voice of God ",15 "Opinions on recent Alfa Spiders Anyone have any opinions on fairly recent model Alfa Spiders ( 86-> ) Reliablilty for what their class ( I'm not talking Alfa vs. Toyota corrola which is more relaible ) As far as I can discern, in recent years, there are 3 levels with all basically the same mechanical aspects. Please email any responses Ted Schreiber Mechanical Enginering Northwestern University Tel: 708.491.5386 FAX 708.491.3915 Email: rts@nwu.edu ",7 "COMPLETE 386 SYSTEM FOR SALE 386DX 25Mhz (DTK motherboard Intel microprocessor) 128k internal cache 4 megs Ram 89 meg Harddrive (IDE controller) 1.2 meg floppy drive 1.44 meg floppy drive 2 serial ports 1 parallel port Samsung VGA monitor VGA graphics card 101 key keyboard 2400 baud internal modem MS-DOS 6.0 Procomm Plus ver. 2.0 Norton Utilities ver. 4.5 other varius utilities I'm upgrading and need to sell. The system is reliable and ready to go. I've never had any problems with it. I'm asking $1050 o.b.o. If you're interested, please respond by either E-mail or phone. TAE0460@zeus.tamu.edu or 409-696-6043 Thanks, Andrew ",6 "Re: Clinton wants National ID card, aka USSR-style ""Internal Passport"" In article <66767@mimsy.umd.edu>, tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes: |> johnston@cyberia.win.net (Robert Johnston) writes: |> >> |> >>How 'bout we embed the `card` in the forhead of everyones skull ? |> >>Can't lose it without being already dead (ergo, no need for treatment). |> >> |> >Close, at birth we implant a smart chip just behind the ear under the skin but |> >above the skull. We incase it in a hypo-allergenic high carbon content |> >glass. This chip would be reprogrammed as we age with the pertinent |> >medical, correctional, taxational data. Behave yourself or we'll |> >input it into your permenant record. |> |> You forgot the part about encasing it in a small shaped charge so that |> if anyone tries to tamper with it, it explodes and kills you. |> |> Oh, and the shaped charge can be set off by remote control...but only |> if you get out of line. Properly patriotic citizens have nothing to fear. At Algor's insistance, the shaped charge will automatically detonate after thirty years, a la ""Logan's Run,"" in order to maintain population control. -- // John Townsend Reduce, Reuse Engineering & Modeling // Mead Data Central Reuse, ...!uunet!meaddata!johnt // 9595 Springboro Pike Recycle... johnt@meaddata.com // Miamisburg, OH 45342 software! (513) 865-7250 ",16 "Re: Free Moral Agency and Kent S. In article , healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) wrote: > At the time Ezekiel was written, Israel was in apostacy again and if I'm not > mistaken, Tyre was about to make war on Israel. Like I said, the Prince of > Tyre was the human ruler of Tyre. He was a wicked man. By calling Satan > the King of Tyre, Ezekiel was saying that Satan is the real ruler over Tyre. Tammy, is this all explicitly stated in the bible, or do you assume that you know that Ezekiel indirectly mentioned? It could have been another metaphor, for instance Ezekiel was mad at his landlord, so he talked about him when he wrote about the prince of Tyre. Sorry, but my interpretation is more mundane, Ezekiel wrote about the prince of Tyre when we wrote about the prince of Tyre. Cheers, Kent --- sandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net. ",0 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In article <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu>, dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: ... > Well you know that you're getting somewhere, when you start getting > responses like this. > > Kent, let me explain it to you. > > If you are paying for a phone, and you don't want call-waiting, YOU DON'T > NEED TO PAY FOR CALl-WAITING. Or, if the phone comany charges you as if you did, you could always a) start your own company b) use a different phone company But we're talking about the government. Some want item 1, others item 2, etc. There will always be something someone doesn't want to fund. You don't like abortion? Work to recriminalize it. But as long as it is legal, you really don't have a chance in getting funding stopped (permanently). > This whole Clinton induced abortion debate SHOULD begin to make NARAL > nervous, because it has exposed a real scam. What scam? I'll never have a hysterctomy (sp?) but it's a legal procedure and my health insurance company will pay for it. Shall I now argue that I should be exempt from those fees? Great, exept now I'll pay more since it's primarly men who have prostate procedures. Not to mention the extra cost of keeping track of who wants to pay for what. If it bothers you that much, start your own health insurance company that doesn't pay for abortion. This is a free country, you know. > If one is paying for a PRIVATE health insurance plan and DOES NOT WANT > ""abortion coverage"" there is NO reason for that person to be COMPLELLED > to pay for it. (Just as one should not be compelled to pay for lipposuction > coverage if ONE doesn't WANT that kind of coverage). So don't get coverage through that company. Simple. > A full third of the country flatly considers abortion to be murder > for reasons of conscience. Source(s)? > If the first amendment means ANYTHING at all > anymore, then these people should NOT be COMPELLED to PAY for ""abortion > coverage"" if it is so OBVIOUSLY offensive to their beliefs. Or are we > going to start forcing Jews to eat pork, Quakers to fight in wars, etc? No, but I imagine you'd have them pay to fight wars, wouldn't you? > No one should be COMPELLED to sign a defacto ""loyalty oath"" in support of > abortion in order to gain access to health care, ESPECIALLY if one's > conscience is so obviously against the practice (of abortion). So don't buy health insurance from that company. Simple. Brett ________________________________________________________________________________ ""There's nothing so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction."" Sean O'Casey in _The White Plague_ by Frank Herbert. ",19 "Turkish Preisident Turgut Ozal passed away Turkish president Turgur Ozal has passed away today after a heart attack in Ankara at 11:00 am GMT . Mr. Ozal was 66 years old. BahadIr Acuner acunerbb@csugrad.cs.vt.edu ",18 "Re: FLAME and a Jewish home in Palestine In article maler@vercors.imag.fr (Oded Maler) writes: >In article , jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes: >|> Typical Arabic thinking. If we are guilty of something, so is >|> everyone else. Unfortunately for you, Nabil, Jewish tribes are not >|> nearly as susceptible to the fratricidal murdering that is still so >|> common among Arabs in the Middle East. There were no "" killings >|> between the Jewish tribes on the way."" >I don't like this comment about ""Typical"" thinking. You could state >your interpretation of Exodus without it. As I read Exodus I can see >a lot of killing there, which is painted by the author of the bible >in ideological/religious colors. The history in the desert can be seen >as an ethos of any nomadic people occupying a land. That's why I think >it is a great book with which descendants Arabs, Turks and Mongols can >unify as well. You somehow missed Nabil's comments, even though you included it in your followup: >The number which could have arrived to the Holy Lands must have been >substantially less ude to the harsh desert and the killings between the >Jewish tribes on the way.. I am not aware of ""killings between Jewish tribes"" in the desert. The point of ""typical thinking"" here is that while Arabs STILL TODAY act in the manner you describe, like ""any nomadic people occupying a land"", killing and plundering each other with regularity, others have somehow progressed over time. It is not surprising then that Arabs often accuse others (infidels) of things that they are quite familiar with: civil rights violations, religious discrimination, ethnic cleansing, land theft, torture and murder. It is precisely this mechanism at work that leads people to say that Jewish tribes were killing each other in the desert, even without support for such a ludicrous suggestion. -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "Re: Rebuilding the Temple (was Re: Anybody out there?) tcsteven@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes: >Chuck Petch writes: >>Now it appears that nothing stands in the way of rebuilding and resuming >>sacrifices, as the Scriptures indicate will happen in the last days. >>Although the Israeli government will give the permission to start, I think >>it is the hand of God holding the project until He is ready to let it >>happen. Brothers and sisters, the time is at hand. Our redemption is >>drawing near. Look up! >How is a scriptural Levitical priesthood resumed? Are there any Jews who >can legitimately prove their Levite bloodline? If I am not mistaken, the Jewish family names Cohen, Kahn, etc. are considered to be legitimate indicators of descent from Aaron. The family names Levi, Levene, etc. are considered to be legitimate indicators of descent from Levi. The main legal issue is the purification of the priesthood, which is supposed to involve finding the ashes of of the red heifer last used for this purpose 2000 years ago. _______________________________________________________________________________ steven stovall stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu (310) 825-7307 ",15 "Re: What's that chime? In article <1r9dcm$nac@fnnews.fnal.gov> b91926@fnclub.fnal.gov (David Sachs) writes: > >Those chimes indicate a hardware failure of some type during System startup. > >One thing that can cause the chimes is a cable that has become a bit loose. Next time you power down the computer, check that all cables are on tight. I remember a simple program that would play those chimes for you when you clicked their respective buttons. Does anyone know where that is? This was circa 1988, I think. Cheers, -e. - ()() ()() () ()()() Eric J. Huppertz ejhupper@ilstu.edu ()()() () () =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= () () () () ""Hey, these aren't my rules. Come to think of ()() () () ()()() it, I don't HAVE any rules."" -Beetlejuice ",4 "Re: Leafs Crushed Again; Blues Win; Flames Back. In article <1993Apr22.220409.10862@wuecl.wustl.edu>, jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes: |> In article vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes: |> > |> >The Blues, led by the best goalie in the NHL this season, Curtis |> >Joseph, shut-out the Hawks 2-0. The Blues are playing like they did in |> >'86 - clutch 'n grab, shoot the puck out. It's incredibly boring to |> >watch, but if it works... |> > |> Finally a non Blues fan agrees that Joseph is a great goalie. I think he |> should win the Vezina this year or at least share it with Barrasso who also |> has been shadowed by Mario's amazing performance. |> I too think that Joseph has had a GREAT year and should be considered for the Vezina. I think Barrasso and Joseph should be the two strongest candidates this year. I don't believe ALL of the hype that Roy, Belfour and now Potvin receive for their goaltending. I do think that they are great in the nets, but I would rather have Curtis, Tommy or Fuhr in the nets during this years playoffs. The big name tenders always seem to have a strong defense in front of them and the goaltenders get the most credit. I would rather face 25 shots a game, than have to rely on Joseph saving 35, but if the goalie is going to face 35 shots, I would rather have Joseph or Barrasso facing them. -Jay ps Go Quebec!!! And I know that McLean and several others should be mentioned as candidates for this years Vezina, but I am partial to Joseph and Barrasso this season. John W. Huber, Jr. - aka Jay | Penguins - 1991,1992 Stanley Cup Champions Software Engineering Institute | Pirates - 1990,1991,1992 NL East Champions SEI 3409 (412) 268-3550 | MasterCraft - The ONLY boat for skiing ",10 "Re: Reds Without Sleeves (was Re: New Uniforms) In article <1993Apr6.204514.2180@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes: > In article <12805@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes: > > > > > >Am I the only person who thinks the Reds sleeveless uniforms are > >ugly? Yet another reason why they won't win the NL West! ;) > > If uniforms really were a deciding factor in pennant races, the '79 Pirates > would have never won anything; those have to be the ugliest uniforms I've > ever seen, particular the all-yellow set. > > Sherri Nichols > snichols@adobe.com > My vote goes for the ('75?) Indians with their all-red uniforms. Boog Powell once said he felt like a big red blood clot. Rich Barry barry@ihlpe.att.com ",9 "Re: Jose Canseco's swing - 1992 vs. 1986. g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes: >>Gary's list of the ten slowest bats in baseball: >>8. Andre Dawson >What?! Peter Gammons' Andre ""Tremendous Bat Speed"" Dawson? Bat speed so >great that Dawson has trouble hitting the ball to the right side of the >left field line without counting to 100 before swinging? Bat speed never >before seen from a 38-year-old man, much less from any Red Sox player to >precede him? Yes, that's him. Was I not specific enough? Just because someone consistently pulls the ball does not mean that they have a quick bat. Dawson's release is slow, and he *IS* 38, after all. He may swing early, and rotate his hips so that he hits the ball to the left side all the time, but he swings slowly. As for me disagreeing with Peter Gammons... Whoa! That's never happened before! Next thing you know, I'll probably believe Dave Campbell is the biggest imbecile even to come near a mic, and that Ray Knight has the IQ of drained crankcase oil. -- * Gary Huckabay * ""Outside?! That was right down the bleedin' pipe, * * ""Balder than any * Kenny! I realize I don't have great control, but * * Dave on the net. * c'mon!"" ""Gary, that was a styrofoam cup. The * * Really."" * plate's a foot to your right. Throw the ball."" * ",9 "Drug Use Up Among U.S. Eighth-graders The article that follows was taken from the Wednesday, April 14, 1993 issue of USA Today (""Drug Use Up Among U.S. eighth-graders"" by Mike Snider, p. 6D). A new national survey says drugs are easier to get, more teens are using them and fewer deem drug use as risky. For the last two years, government officials have trumpeted results from the National High School Survey as signs that the drug war is being won. But this year, officials are retreating - drug use by eighth-graders has risen, according to the survey of 50,000 students nationwide. Possible reason for the increase: more experimentation. Why? If drug use dropped during the '80s, eventually some students will have fewer ""drug-using contemporaries"" who act as examples of substance abuse's drawbacks, says social psychologist Lloyd Johnston, one of the survey authors. Each new wave of youths ""must be given the knowledge, skills and motivation to resist using these drugs,"" Johnston says. This type of resurgence ""is possible,"" says Eileen Shiff, author of ""Experts Advise Parents"" (Delta, $14.95). But that's not the issue, she says. The prevalence of alcohol and drugs among teens today could result in more alcoholic adults decades from now. Aggravating the problem: baby boomer parents - who experimented with drugs and alcohol as teens - trying to be friends, not parents, to their children. ""I've even seen parents serving kegs of beer"" to their underage kids and friends, Shiff says. For a recent graduation, Shiff and other parents organized an all-night, ""lock-in"" party where no booze or drugs were allowed. ""We need to fulfill that parental role, otherwise the peer group takes over,"" she says. Officials may ""talk about the war on drugs, but they really haven't done anything that I've seen,"" says Suzanne Linkous, Scottsdale, Ariz., 16, a volunteer who talks with teens about drugs, dating and other issues on a peer counseling and suicide hot line. Linkous, a member of USA Today's Teen Panel, says ""there's always going to be experimentation"" with drugs. A real war on drugs could be waged ""education-wise,"" she says. But ""some don't want to give kids the facts. They think it will give them ideas; it's the same with birth control. I think you should give the kids the information or have it accessible"" through classes, pamphlets and speakers, she says. Education efforts need to start as soon as kids get in school - in kindergarten, says Dallas Owens, 17, teen panelist from Miami Shores, Fla. ""I remember in kindergarten, I used to see (drugs). I think kids in the 10th and 12th grades have already made up their minds (about using drugs),"" he says. Scare tactics in public service announcements aren't working; only one commercial has gotten it right, he says. The commercial opens with two ""good-looking girls"" in the restroom talking about having no prom date. Then they take a hit off a joint. ""That hits home because it's not attractive,"" he says. ""You can't be doing drugs if you want somebody to like you."" Adolescents' choices Drugs used by eighth graders in the last month: Estimated, per 100 students 1991 1992 Pct. chg. Alcohol 25.1 26.1 +4% Cigarettes 14.3 15.5 +8% Marijuana 3.2 3.7 +16% Amphetamines 2.6 3.3 +27% LSD 0.6 0.9 +50% Cocaine 0.5 0.7 +40% Crack 0.3 0.5 +67% Source: University of Michigan Institute for Social Research, 1993 report Scott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot Before: ""David Koresh is a cheap thug who interprets the Bible through the barrel of a gun..."" --ATF spokesman After: ""[The ATF] is a cheap thug who interprets [the Constitution] through the barrel of a gun..."" --Me ",18 "Re: images of earth In article <1993Apr20.143434.5069@cs.ruu.nl> clldomps@cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar) writes: >So they should sue the newspaper I got it from for printing it. >The article didn't say anything about copyrights. The newspaper itself is almost certainly copyrighted in its entirety. Newspapers generally employ legal staffs which make sure they get permission to use a copyrighted image or text. Did you do the same? -- -John John J. Humpal -- johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu -- short .sig, std. disclaimer ",1 "Re: First Spacewalk In article flb@flb.optiplan.fi (""F.Baube[tm]"") writes: >At one time there was speculation that the first spacewalk >(Alexei Leonov ?) was a staged fake. > >Has any evidence to support or contradict this claim emerged ? > >Was this claim perhaps another fevered Cold War hallucination ? This claim was made when someone spotted training film footage spliced into the footage of the actual spacewalk. Dennis Newkirk (dennisn@ecs.comm.mot.com) Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector Schaumburg, IL ",14 "Re: WARNING.....(please read)... In article <1993Apr23.144326.9535@ctp.com> bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas) writes: >In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes: >>rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes: >>>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local >>>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless? >> >>Hear, hear! Thanks, Robbie. >> >>You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as >>George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds, >>who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers. >> >> >>On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers >>for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be. >>Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do >>with people of all ages. > >Well, this isn't the right group for this, but I have to say that I don't >think violence is any more socially acceptable now, by any means. How >can you say that when we used to have of pistol-toting gunslingers as >heros, or even gangland thugs being considered romantic. Do you think >our great grandparent got yelled at by their parents for playing cowboys >and indians? I don't think so. That behavior was somewhat encouraged >back then, in fact. >I think the only difference between now and then is that nowadays, when >some teenager kills another one in a classroom in California, we here >about it in MA the same day. Back in the old days, they'd never hear >about something like that, period. Yeah, People act really shocked about violence, as though it were new to our species... What about the holocaust? The crusades? The Salem witch trials? The religious persecutions of the middle-ages? What about violent acts carried out in the name of religion all over the world? What about the early Christians put to death by the Romans? The Jews persecuted by Christians? There are a lot more humans today than there have ever been. I do not know the stats, but there are far more people on the planet than there were 2 or 3 hundred years ago! The per capita acts of violence are probably not significantly different than they were a hundred or a thousand years ago! There is nothing new about violence. rf ",7 "Re: Permanaent Swap File with DOS 6.0 dbldisk In comp.os.ms-windows.misc you write: >While reading through the DOS 6.0 book, it states that the Windows permanaent swap file will not work correctly when placed on a compressed drive. To make things compatable, >I removed my Permanent swap file before starting the upgrade. However, when all the dust settled, and I go into windows, it says that the temporary swap file is right where it always was, in the Windows directory. My question is: How come the temporary swap files works OK with a compressed drive, and the permanent one doesn't? you might want to look in windows FAQ for this one, but here is my best explanation. But I can't guarantee that I'm not way off base... The permenant swap file is read/written to by windows by talking directly to the hard disk controller card. The controller card must use the protocal set up by western digital (or something like that). Windows creates a file called spart.par in your windows directory that points to that file. It then uses the physical information about your disk to index to information in that file. compressed disks are actually ""logical"" disks. These disks have different characteristics than the actual physical disk. Furthermore, the information on the compressed disks must be uncompressed before it is used. (i.e it must go through the decompression program that traps disk reads at the operating system level or the BIOS level). Because of this ""inbetween"" program, windows cannot use direct methods to read from the ""logical"" disk. a permenant swap file is only there to ""reserve"" an area of the disk that windows can use and to block that space from DOS. Windows would theoretically not even have to access the file from DOS to use that disk space. (I don't know if it does or doesn't...but it checks for it somewhere everytime you boot windows.) a temporary swap file is just a normal DOS file that is accessed by windows via DOS and the BIOS. If a disk compression program or other TSR is loaded the file access must go through DOS...TSR'S (disk compression)...and BIOS in order to be access. (i.e. NEVER USE A TEMPORARY SWAP FILE...NEVER) more on permenent swap files... i'm sure everyone who has an uncompressed part of their compressed hard disk has seen the message ""you have selected a swap file greater than the suggested size...windows will only use the size suggested...do you wan't to create this swap file anyway"" or something like that. well, a friend of mine (ROBERT) called microsoft and asked them what and why. what they said is that windows checks the amount of free disk space and divides that number by 2. Then it checks for the largest contiguous block of free disk space. Windows then suggests the smaller of the two numbers. They also said that under absolutely no circumstances...NONE!...will windows uses a swap file larger than the suggested size. Well...that's what he said! I call bull@#$#. If this is true why does windows report the memory is available to me if it's not going to use it? any takers? James (if this doesn't get to the net, will someone post it for me? thanks) ",2 "Re: Screw the people, crypto is for hard-core hackers & spooks only In article <1993Apr22.223906.25929@lehman.com> pmetzger@snark.shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger) writes: >Qualcomm had spare cycles in the DSPs for their new CDMA digital >cellular phones. They wanted to put strong crypto into them since they >had the capacity. The government decided to ""discourage"" them. You're blowing smoke. Qualcomm wants to sell to nice, lucrative overseas markets like Japan and the EC. The government told them ""don't do encryption if you ever hope to export this technology"". The reason that CDMA doesn't have encryption is NOT because the G-men came a'knocking at Qualcomm's door. It's because Qualcomm doesn't think that the US market for digital cellular is big enough for them. This is just the International Traffic in Arms Regulations all over again. Perry has already stated on the net that Qualcomm wanted to sell overseas, and the government told them they wouldn't be allowed to export, so he's only blowing the same smoke you are :-) Sure, they probably could have made a US version, and a non-crypto export version, and contracted with a Bulgarian or Japanese software house to develop an overseas crypto ROM, but that's getting pretty expensive. No, Cylink sells their phones because they're willing to make different stuff for domestic use vs. export. Qualcomm isn't. So Cylink makes money--that's capitalism, comrade. Well, some people like capitalism, and others prefer free enterprise; they're different! Using the government to stifle your competition is capitalist. >Someone out there WILL build a unit to do all this. Better yet, >prehaps someone will produce a package that turns any 486 box with a >sound card into a secure phone. ""Someone"" this and ""someone"" that. If you think it's so easy, why are you whining on the net instead of getting your butt in gear and writing it? Writing good crypto code is something most good programmers can do; writing good new crypto algorithms is a very specialized skill. Developing new voice coding algorithms is also pretty specialized, but finding ways to implement the more complex ones when you don't have enough horsepower is still fairly hairy stuff. Once the 586/Pentium becomes widespread, or the next generation of sound boards has DSPs on it, I suspect we'll see it happen. Maybe the vanilla 486+Soundblaster is enough. -- # Pray for peace; Bill # Bill Stewart 1-908-949-0705 wcs@anchor.att.com AT&T Bell Labs 4M312 Holmdel NJ # No, I'm *from* New Jersey, I only *work* in cyberspace.... # White House Commect Line 1-202-456-1111 fax 1-202-456-2461 ",11 "Re: WP-PCF, Linux, RISC? In article leebr@ecf.toronto.edu (LEE BRIAN) writes: >In article <1qu8ud$2hd@sunb.ocs.mq.edu.au> eugene@mpce.mq.edu.au writes: >>In article ghhwang@csie.nctu.edu.tw (ghhwang) writes: >>> >>>Dear friend, >>> The RISC means ""reduced instruction set computer"". The RISC usually has >>>small instruction set so as to reduce the circuit complex and can increase >>>the clock rate to have a high performance. You can read some books about >>>computer architecture for more information about RISC. >> >>hmm... not that I am an authority on RISC ;-) but I clearly remember >>reading that the instruction set on RISC CPUs is rather large. >>The difference is in addressing modes - RISC instruction sets are not >>as orthogonal is CISC. >> >>-- > >Theoretically supposed to be reduced.... not any longer. That's why everyone >is arguing about RISC v.s. CISC. Personally, I think CISC will win out. >Just take a look at the Pentium! (Not that I like Intel architectures either, >but that's another story...) > >bye! > Do you mean that the Pentium is better than a Risc? or that it will outsell them all? If the first, you have to remember that intel CISC (like the pentium) are a always a generation away from the best riscs... also Riscs cpu are more costly because they are not sold in the same quantities (not even on the same order)... but I remember reading about 3 years (maybe 2) about a T800(?) from hypercube that did a 100 mips, was superscallar AND reordered its instruction itself so ",2 "Re: The [secret] source of that announcement I guess the cryptowranglers read this group too. But of course I knew that because it is so easy to do. There is not a single doubt in my mind that every byte that passes every significant gateway or 'bone is captured for the colligation of data about __________? (Maybe your name is here). Maybe we should start a newsgroup for the distribution of encrypted posts intended of members of affinity groups with a shared private key. For example at the coming up Cypherpunks meeting, a private key corresponding to that particular meeting could be passed out by a moderator. Minutes, followup comments to other participants, and so on could be posted to the alt.encrypted group for the use of the people who attended. Communiques intended by the group for non-attendees could of course just be signed using the private key but otherwises not encrypted. Starting a alt.encrypted newsgroup rather than just maintaining mailing lists is better for several reasons. First, it would be easier to archive for people who might join a group ""late"" and who might like to easily read earlier posts; second, traffic analysis to know exactly to whom an affinity message is directed would be foiled; three, a newsgroup is much more public and would serve to publicize available privacy measures on the internet. And it would be fun to accumulate a secret keyring full of such keys -- it beats giving out t-shirts as a door prize. We could send a copy of alt.encrypted directly to Judge William Sessions or Admiral Studeman to save them the time of having it collected for them. -- grady@netcom.com 2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F ",11 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption In article 29778@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, holland@CS.ColoState.EDU (douglas craig holland) writes: >In article <1993Apr19.130132.12650@afterlife.ncsc.mil> rlward1@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Robert Ward) writes: >>In article bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes: >>>and since the US constitutions guarantees the right to every American >>>to bear arms, why is not every American entitled, as a matter of >> >>Have you read the applicable part of the Constitution and interpreted it IN >>CONTEXT? If not, please do so before posting this misinterpretation again. >>It refers to the right of the people to organize a militia, not for individuals >>to carry handguns, grenades, and assault rifles. > >Read the Constitution yourself. The Second Amendment says the right to bear >arms shall not be infringed, so a well regulated militia may be more easily >formed. I have an interpretation of the Second that shows there are no >qualifications to the right to keep and bear arms. If you want, I can E-mail >it to you. By the way, gun talk belongs in talk.politics.guns. > Doug Holland Mr. Ward, before you start blathering about your skill ""interpreting"" the Constitution, it might be helpful to learn to read. After a review with a high school English teacher emphasizing participial phrases, you might start with the Second Amendment, and follow it up with: 97th Congress, 2nd Session, Committee Print, *The Right To Keep and Bear Arms*, of the Subcomittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session, February, 1982. GPO No. 88-618-O This authoritative, heavily researched and annotated document clearly turns your ""interpretation"" into specious claptrap, which is a polite way of saying utter bullshit. In spite of your false assertion to the contrary, the Second Amendment DOES protect the right of the individual citizen, in his capacity as an individual, to keep and bear arms. And, Mr. Holland, IMHO, blatantly and harmfully false information, asserted as fact and globally distributed, deserves globally distributed rebuttal in the forum in which it is posted. (And besides, this site doesn't carry t.p.g...:-) harryb%phred@data-io.com phred!harryb@data-io.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. --Thomas Jefferson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ",11 "Re: Gamma Ray Bursters. Where are they? kwp@wag.caltech.edu (Kevin W. Plaxco) writes: >In article <27APR199320210230@stdvax.gsfc.nasa.gov> abdkw@stdvax.gsfc.nasa.gov (David Ward) writes: >Demonstrating that these puppies are beyond the oort cloud would >require resolution on the order of arcseconds, since the oort >cloud is postulated to extend to about 0.5 parsec (all together >now: ""Parallax ARc SECond"", a parsec is the distance of an object >that demonstrates one arc second of parallax with a 2 AU base line). According to my *Glossary of Astronomy and Astrophysics*: ""parsec (abbreviation for parallax second) The distance at which one astronomical unit subtends an angle of 1 second of arc. 1 pc = 206,265 AU = 3.086 X 10^13 km = 3.26 lt-yr."" George -- | George Krumins /^\ The Serpent and the Rainbow | | gfk39017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu <^^. .^^> | | Pufferfish Observatory <_ (o) _> | | \_/ | ",14 "Re: Suggestions for escrow agencies (was: Re: More technical details) >What are the assurances the escrow people will not be FORBIDDEN to >report any access attempts for one's keys? In NY State it is already a crime to inform anyone of a law enforcement wiretap on their phone, even if the person doing the informing learns about it through ""non privliged"" means. ",11 "Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach What we call today the ""Old Testament"" was being written up to approx- imately 168 BCE, according to most modern scholars. Aside from the book of Daniel, the whole OT predates Alexander (the Great). These books were written (predominantly) in Hebrew. There were also other books being written at about this time and later by Greek-speaking, or ""Hellenistic"", Jews. These books are those which are reckoned by many denominations as ""Apocrypha"". Before the closing of the Writings, the third part of what is today called the canon, all of the books were in use by Jews of the day. However, there were those who reckoned (based on Zech. 13) that prophecy had ceased. This faction maintained that there were no true prophets in their day. They also maintained that literature of a prophetic character could not be genuine teachings from God. By the time of c.65 CE, another faction had entered the mess. Christians had come in claiming that THEIR writings were also suitable to be read in synagogues and used for worship. Therefore, the Palestinian Jewish leaders got together and stated that the books written from the time of Ben Sira (Sirach) onward were not sacred writings. They justified this from Zech. 13. In particular, they said, the writings of the Christians (called heretics) were not inspired. At about 90 CE, they codified things further by closing the canon in somewhat of an official sense at the Council of Jamnia. A few books (Ecclesi- astes, Song of Songs, Esther) made it in after that date, but these were those which had been written prior to the official cut off point (the time of Ben Sira) for inclusion that they had established in order to keep out the Christian and Hellenistic writings. Jerome excluded the 'apocrypha' because they were not in use by Jews of his day and because they were (except for Sirach) not found in Hebrew in his time. His criterion for separating them from the other pre-Christian writings was not based on 'inspiration'. There is plenty more to say, but I do not have time. The passage you quote concerns the book (Rev.) in which it is found. Frank D. ",15 "Boom! Whoosh...... And one of my profs is the chief engineer for the project (Dr. Ron Humble, Univ. Colorado at Colorado Springs). I love the idea of an inflatable 1-mile long sign.... It will be a really neat thing to see it explode when a bolt (or even better, a Westford Needle!) comes crashing into it at 10 clicks a sec. Whooooooooshhhhhh...... I hear that it will supposedly coincide with the Atlanta Olympics. Fuzzy. =============================================================================== _ __/| | Lt. David ""Fuzzy"" Wells | ""I want peace on earth, \'o.O' | HQ AFSPACECOM/CNA | goodwill toward men."" =(___)= | ""We do debris"" |""We're the government. We don't do that U ...ack!| wdwells@esprit.uccs.edu | that sort of thing."" -SNEAKERS =============================================================================== ",14 "Re: Proof of the Viability of Gun Control In article rick@howtek.MV.COM (Rick Roy) writes: >] >Wasn't that the 'Bonus Rebellion', when tanks were deployed against >] >US Citizens? Grist for those who insist 'It couldn't happen here...' >] >] But also grist for those who think that when such things DO >] happen it means the end of the Republic is imminent. The >] Bonus March was 61 year ago. >] >] >] ---peter > >I think you just supported his point. What did you mean by ""the >end of the Republic""? Do you think this hasn't happened yet? Correct. You'd have to be very unfamiliar with US history to think that we have substantially fewer rights today than in in 1932. The police could generally get away with a lot more in those days, there were few citizens and media ""watchdog"" organizations, no ""Miranda"" rulings, and women, blacks, gays, and other such groups had very few right indeed. Moreover censorship of media and similar artistic expression was rampant at that time (think about ""banned in Boston"" or the Hays Commission). My comments were directed against those who see these sorts of incidents as proof that rights as we know them are about to vanish. ---peter ",18 "Re: Braves & Giants: a case study of their weaknesses In article <1993Apr20.063339.10118@bnlux1.bnl.gov>, kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee) writes: |> |> Sunday's game exposed the weaknesses of both teams quite clearly, |> and that the Braves are vulnerable: |> |> Braves' weaknesses: |> a)weak defense: a couple of Bond's doubles and a bloop by |> Clayton would've been caught by a better outfield. |> b)weak bullpen: ha ha, their closers are Bedrosian and Howell! Not an astute observation -- this is a straw-bullpen. The lefties, Stanton & Mercker are strong, and Wohlers is down learning a new pitch. The bullpen is fine, probably superior. |> c)over-reliance on Pendleton; a Pendleton slump becomes a team slump. |> Also false. Gant, Nixon, Justice, Hunter, Blauser present a decent enough offense. EVERYONE is slumping (except Blauser), not just Pendleton. BTW, what is the story with Brian Hunter? Is he in the dog house? Paul Collacchi ",9 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. andersom@spot.Colorado.EDU (Marc Anderson) writes: > methods. ``This year's crime bill will have teeth, not bare gums,'' > Clinton said. In particular, his administration will place strict > controls on data formats and protocols, and require the registration > of so-called ``cryptographic keys,'' in the hope of denying drug > dealers the ability to communicate in secret. Clinton said the > approach could be used for crackdowns on other forms of underground > economic activity, such as ``the deficit-causing tax evaders who > live in luxury at the expense of our grandchildren.'' And some people thought that I am exaggerating when claiming that the Cripple Chip is just a first step in a totalitarian plot against the civil liberties in the USA... It seems that I've even been an optimist - the things are happening even faster than I expected.... That's another of the dirty tricks they used to apply on us under the communist regime - do something secret, THEN tell the people about is (after the fact, when nothing can be done any more), and of course, explaining them how much better the situation is now... In my previous messages I wrote that the Americans should wake up and fight against the new proposal. Now it seems to me that it is already too late - it has already happened, the civil liberties have been violated, no, stollen from the American people, while the most part of this people has been sleeping happily... :-((( Too sad... Regards, Vesselin -- Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226 Fachbereich Informatik - AGN < PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany ",11 "Re: Solid state vs. tube/analog In article 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: | |Also, ask any electric-guitar enthusiast which type of amp they prefer, and |they'll tell you tube-type, since tubes have lower distortion and noise |than transistors. 'Course, most of your electric guitar types just say >""Tubes sound better, dude."" :-) > Of course, they then turn up the REverb, the Gain, add in the analog delay line and the Fuzz box. I'd think they wouldn't notice the distortion. Oh I forgot the phase shifters. >Also, transistors have the advantage in both waste-heat and energy-use, >mainly because of the heaters on the cathodes of the tubes. Ah, but how do they compare to Mechanical systems :-) pat ",14 "Re: New Encryption Algorithm In article <16724@rand.org> jim@rand.org (Jim Gillogly) writes: I did. You're mistaken. NSA's communications intelligence mission is strictly against foreign governments. Here's an excerpt from the enabling charter (24 Oct 52, Truman) that should clarify this. The charter was declassified in about Feb 1990 when an FOIA request made it public. Interesting! Where can I get the whole thing? NSA is not in the standard-setting business, though -- that's why this Clipper stuff came from NIST, which I believe is tasked with coming up with standards based on their best inputs from other government agencies, which would include NSA. Several of the newspaper reports have made it fairly clear that the NSA did all the real work. You can't believe everything you read in the papers :-), but the package of information the NIST is faxing out has so little information beyond what's widely known that it sounds like it's true. -- # Pray for peace; Bill # Bill Stewart 1-908-949-0705 wcs@anchor.att.com AT&T Bell Labs 4M312 Holmdel NJ # No, I'm *from* New Jersey, I only *work* in cyberspace.... # White House Commect Line 1-202-456-1111 fax 1-202-456-2461 ",11 "Re: was: Go Hezbollah!! In article <1993Apr15.152619.12664@src.honeywell.com>, amehdi@src.honeywell.com (Hossien Amehdi) writes: |> |> The way I see it, Israelis and Arabs have not been able to achieve peace |> after almost 50 years of fighting because of the following two major reasons: |> |> 1) Arab governments are not really representative of their people, currently |> most of their leaders are stupid, and/or not independent, and/or |> dictators. True, but maybe not the worst possible - see Algeria. |> |> 2) Israeli government is arrogant and none comprising. |> This was true (and I may add the adjective ""stupid"") until the Intifada. Since then, no serious Israeli leader (including Shamir) really thinks the the occupied territories worth the trouble. The only question became the question of price and other quantitative detail. The best thing the Palestinians can do for themselves these days is to stop the Intifada and try to live as normally as possible (I know, it's hard under occupation). Otherwise people might think that five years of stone throwing (as justified as it may be) has caused the Palestinians an irreversible damage that prevents them from running a normal state when the time comes. Currently it serves no purpose and it's just a waste of human life and economic resources. -- =============================================================== Oded Maler, LGI-IMAG, Bat D, B.P. 53x, 38041 Grenoble, France Phone: 76635846 Fax: 76446675 e-mail: maler@imag.fr =============================================================== ",17 "**] A/D board quiry: On an A/D board I've got, I'm using the A/D lines. It measures the voltages properly, ie: with a 7v power supply it reg's 7v and with 5v, it reg's 5v. Problem is when I've got the input voltage, and I wish to lower it via a resistor. The sensitivity of the board is so great that I can triger it with holding the 5/7v wire in one hand, and touch the probe and it will register the full input voltage. A 1m resistor only lowers voltage by .1v so this is not too feesable. What could the problems be and what else could I use to lower the input voltage? (btw I've got it grounded correctly) _________________________________________________ Inspiration | ___ | comes to | \ o baden@sys6626.bison.mb.ca | those who | ( ^ ) baden@inqmind.bison.mb.ca | seek the | /-\ =] Baden de Bari [= | unknown. | | ------------------------------------------------- ",12 "Re: So, do any XXXX, I mean police officers read this stuff? In article <1993Apr23.143128.21344@dsd.es.com> bgardner@pebbles.es.com (Blaine Gardner) writes: >In article mcguire@cs.utexas.edu (Tommy Marcus McGuire) writes: [...] >>""Hey, what the hell do you mean by that? You suck. I have a god-given >>right to express opinions, carry a gun and to not wear a helmet, goddamn >>it. Everything you stand for is STUPID."" > >I'd give it an 0.5 on a scale of 10. While not mentioning Hitler or >Koresh weighs in your favor, you also neglected to mention 105 mph, tennis >balls, little girls and countersteering. Another thing to consider is, >that like Mexican food, a lot of folks mistake heat for quality. Subtle >references to various personal qualities/habits/ancestry/possesions >generally earn more points than four letter words or the caps lock key. >And introducing a new polysyllabic word (strabismic, for example) is >likely to insure that some small part of your flame will become >immortal. >-- >Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland >bgardner@dsd.es.com Aw, c'mon. The serious overreaction ought to be worth a couple of points, not to mention the bit condemning everthing the flamee might ever say. The non sequitur about guns and helmets is just the proper flourish. I personally am of the opinion that there are two types of good flames. The first does trade ``quality,'' in the sense you mention, for heat. This has a certain surprise value and if done correctly, which I contend was done above, is reasonably entertaining. While it is true that the flame I posted does not mention anyone's habitual velocity, friends, dinner, or entertainment, it says what it needs to with the appropriate flair and it is short. The weakness of this type of flame is actually that it can easily be taken too far, at which point it becomes trite and boring. (Witness the Infante thread recently....) The other type of flame, which you seem to be glorifying above, has a few weaknesses as well. In the first place, it can get verbose and tedious in the extreme, particularly if the reader does not already strongly identify with one side or the other. In the second, discussing someone's personal qualities, habits, and so forth can quickly become libelous. (Or is that slanderous? I can never remember the difference.) This leads to a proliferation of lawyers, which is widely regarded as a BAD THING. Finally, introducing polysyllabic words is problematic. I can't haul my big dic. around on my bike, and it would be bad form to use a word which actually turned out to have a meaning, especially one which ran counter to my use and flamage in general. In summary, Blaine, your score for that flame is incorrect. While it may be the wunder-flame, the weaknesses you point out are not necessarily weaknesses, and your suggested corrections are not always useful nor applicable. You also probably couldn't outrun a tennis ball with a flatulent dog stapled to your posterior, and I'll bet you and your motorcycle lean to the outside while turning. The same goes for anyone who looks like you, too. ----- Tommy McGuire mcguire@cs.utexas.edu mcguire@austin.ibm.com ""...I will append an appropriate disclaimer to outgoing public information, identifying it as personal and as independent of IBM...."" ",8 "Re: More MOA stuff --- like the RA From what I've seen in my 17 years as an MOA member, most of the folks in the RA are also in the MOA... I guess it's called covering all the bases to get some idea of what is really happening.. How else does one think the RA gets all the juicey news about what's happen' inside the MOA? Nihilism isn't for everyone, not that it really matters! Craig Vechorik BMW MOA Ambassador (and ya, I finally sent my bucks into the RA too) ""REAL BMW's have TWO wheels"" <--- politically correct statement DOD #843 ",8 "what is a client's DISPLAY variable set to? Is there an easy (ie via shell commands) way to tell what the DISPLAY environment variable is for any given client process? Sometimes I can get what I want by typing ps -axe if: a. the client was invoked with a -display argument or b. DISPLAY is one of the first few variables defined in the environment (actually I've never seen b. but it's there to illustrate the type of thing I'm looking for) Ultimately I wish to determine the number of displays that are simultaneously running a given X application. my system: SunOS 4.1.2 sun4c thanks for any help, -- Ed Posnak Harris Space Systems Corporation eposnak@core1.hssc.ksc.nasa.gov ",5 "Re: BusLogic 542B questions In article tiger@netcom.com (Tiger Zhao) writes: >goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL) writes: >>Can anyone tell me if this card works with the March OS/2 2.1 beta? > > I believe so, since the Buslogic cards have proven to be very >reliable in OS/2 2.0.... > The BusLogic cards have an OS/2 2.0 driver that does work with the March 2.1 beta. Support for the BusLogic cards is not included with OS/2 2.0 any longer. If you wish to install the beta from the CD/ROM, you will need to REM out the Adaptec device drivers, as they have a nasty tendency to crash the BusLogic cards when OS/2 attempts to use them. (Thanks Adaptec!) So you add the BusLogic drivers to the config.sys on the CD-ROM boot disk, and REM out the Adaptec drivers. Then you install the whole 1st half of the Beta.. and it won't work! IBM nicely copies in the Adaptec drivers once again. (Thanks IBM!) So.. REM out the Adaptec drivers once more.. and reboot. If you have everything in the right order.. it will work. Things are pretty smooth through the rest of the installation.. except OS/2 will try to install the Adaptec SCSI drivers once again at the end... so.. you are off to more REM statements and more fun. The BT 542Bk comes with drivers and costs the same as the Adaptec cards that do not come with drivers. The DOS drivers work great. This card can easily be configured to work with 8 different sets of I/O ports (and you can use multiple host adapters in one machine) If you get a new card.. it will also be able to support up to 8 GB drives under DOS. Hope this helps.. - Dan -- ****************************************************************************** * Dan Galpin galpin@cats.ucsc.edu * ****************************************************************************** ",3 "Re: Top Ten Excuses for Slick Willie's Record-Setting Disapproval Rati In article <1qkl3i$9bj@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne) says: >In a previous article, MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Mark 'Mark' Sachs) says: >>In article <1qhr73$a8d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu >>(Broward Horne) says: >>> It sure does appear that way, doesn't it? >> >>The attitude that people are stupid if they don't agree with you is not >>going to bring you great success in life. Free advice, there. > whew. Mark, what on EARTH makes you think I give a FUCK > about being a ""success"", particularly NOW when I'll just > the HELL taxed out of me? Oh, this is excellent. That was hardly the point, was it? I was commenting on this all-too-common Republican attitude that if people disagree with us, they must be idiots, they must be sheep being led around by the Evil Liberal Media Conspiracy. This is a dangerous attitude indeed. Because it's not a very big step from ""people are sheep, they can't think for themselves"" to ""people are sheep and need firm leadership from we, who know better""... this sort of attitude makes me worry about what'll happen to the United States if the extremist wing of the Republican party ever gets back into power again. > Holy christ! :) Hey! This is a government-funded newsgroup! Let's have some separation of church and state, damn it! > Besides, let's examine the record, shall we? > Broward: "" Clinton's going to taxe the HOLY FUCK out of you! "" > Mark: "" No, he's not. Only $17 / month "" > ( I STILL get a laugh out of this one! :) ) More like: Broward: ""Clinton's going to raise your income taxes by over $1000!"" Mark: ""No, he's not, only about $204."" Broward: (silence) > Want some more ""free predictions"" ? OK, I predict that in 1996 the Republicans will STILL be bitter. Yeah, yeah, I know, it's not very impressive to predict things that are inevitable... ""...so I propose that we destroy the moon, neatly solving that problem."" [Your blood pressure just went up.] Mark Sachs IS: mbs110@psuvm.psu.edu DISCLAIMER: If PSU knew I had opinions, they'd try to charge me for them. ",18 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr15.135941.16105@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) writes: >From: dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) >Subject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 13:59:41 GMT >In article <1993Apr14.122647.16364@tms390.micro.ti.com>, david@tms390.micro.ti.com (David Thomas) writes: [lots of editing out of previuos posts] >Here is another anecdotal story. I am a picky eater and never wanted to >try chinese food, however, I finally tried some in order to please a >girl I was seeing at the time. I had never heard of Chinese restaurant >syndrome. A group of us went to the restaurant and all shared 6 different >dishes. It didn't taste great, but I decided it wasn't so bad. We went >home and went to bed early. I woke up at 2 AM and puked my guts outs. >I threw up for so long that (I'm not kidding) I pulled a muscle in >my tongue. Dry heaves and everything. No one else got sick, and I'm >not allergic to anything that I know of. >Suffice to say that I wont go into a chinese restaurant unless I am >physically threatened. The smell of the food makes me ill (and that *is* >a psycholgical reaction). When I have been dragged in to suffer >through beef and broccoli without any sauces, I insist on no MSG. >I haven't gotten sick yet. Funny about that... my wife (my girlfriend at the time) used to get sick after eating certain foods at various Asian restaurants, and never knew why. She'd go pale, and sweaty and then vomit copiously. A couple of us ventured a connection with MSG, and her response was: ""MSG? What's that?"". It also happened when she pigged out on some brands of savoury crackers and chips... which I noticed (later) had MSG on the label. Don't know about double blinds, but avoiding MSG has stopped her being sick at restaurants. cheers, John John Nash | Email: Nash@biologysx.lan.nrc.ca. Institute for Biological Sciences, | National Research Council of Canada, Cell Physiology Group. | Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. *** Disclaimer: All opinions are mine, not NRC's! *** ",13 "GIF viewer source code for PC? Does anyone know where I could get some source code for a GIF viewer on a PC. It doesn't have to be fancy, it would be best if it were written in C to display gif pictures on a VGA screen. I was hoping to get it for free from an FTP site, but I haven't been able to find it yet. -------- David Lau davidla@ecs.comm.mot.com ",1 "VCPI memory standard I just read an article in another group that mentions this. I have never heard of the VCPI memory standard. Can someone explain what this is??? Thanks Greg Cisko ",3 "Re: ATF BURNS DIVIDIAN RANCH! NO SURVIVORS!!! In article <93112.153005MGB@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, writes... >From A.P. : According to numerous accounts by those in the compound, >the fire was started by an armoured vehicle crushing a large propane >tank, and turning over numerous gas lanterns. If there was a large propane tank, and it was breached, don't you think that there would be an identifiable explosion? Further, the BD members have as much reason to lie as the Gov't. >Medical Examiners have found no bullet wounds, as was stated by the >FBI, on the corpses. They'd only autopsied one body when this information was released. I wouldn't doubt though >I find it tremendously chilling that so many people seem willing to accept >the governments story, despite much evidence to the contrary. The only evidence that exists right now (at least what we know about) is various claims and counter claims. I'm waiting until the hard evidence is released. What about you? _____ _____ \\\\\\/ ___/___________________ Mitchell S Todd \\\\/ / _____/__________________________ ________________ \\/ / mst4298@zeus._____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_'_/ \_____ \__ / / tamu.edu _____/.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'.'_'_/ \__________\__ / / _____/_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_'_/ \_ / /__________/ \/____/\\\\\\ \\\\\\ ------ ",16 "Persistent vs Chronic Can anyone out there tell me the difference between a ""persistent"" disease and a ""chronic"" one? For example, persistent hepatitis vs chronic hepatitis. Thanks, Horace ",13 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >Theory of Creationism: MY theistic view of the theory of creationism, (there >are many others) is stated in Genesis 1. In the beginning God created >the heavens and the earth. What was before the beginning? --- "" Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. "" John Laws, a man without the honor to keep his given word. ",0 "Re: Top Ten Reasons Hillary and Chealsea Don't Like Men in Uniform In article , ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) wrote: > Top Ten Reasons Hillary and Chealsea Don't Like Men in Uniform > ^^^^^^^^ > [...] > > 6. They keep saluting and stuff. Its embarassing. > ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ > [...] > Copyright (c) Edward A. Ipser, Jr., 1993 Ed: Before you ridicule the intelligence of other people, LEARN TO SPELL. Your typographical errors are, indeed, ""embarassing"" to those of us who read alt.politics.libertarian for its allegedly superior ideas and writing. --Erich Schwarz / schwarze@starbase1.caltech.edu ",18 "Re: Krillean Photography In article <1rk5miINNkju@usenet.pa.dec.com>, stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes: =>Yup. The demonstration to which you refer consists of placing a leaf between =>the plates, and taking a Kirlian photograph of it. You then cut off part of =>the leaf, put the top plate back on, and take another Kirlian photograph. You =>see pretty much the same image in both cases. Turns out the effect isn't =>nearly so striking if you take the trouble to clean the plates between =>photographs. Seems that the moisture from the leaf that you left on the place =>conducts electricity. Surprise, surprise! = = This is true, but it's not quite the whole story. There were = actually some people who were more careful in their methodology = who also replicated the 'phantom leaf effect.' You can also replicate the effect with a rock: Take your first Kirlian photograph. Then moisten one edge of the rock. Lo! and behold! Phantom rock! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. ",13 "Re: DC-X update??? In article <1993Apr14.231654.14060@stsci.edu> rdouglas@stsci.edu (Rob Douglas) writes: >This question is probably mostly for Allen Sherzer, but anyone who KNOWS >would be welcome to answer. I was just wondering if we could have some kind >of update on DC-X. Well it rolled out two weeks ago. As we speak it is at White Sands getting ready. I would have called my sources for the latest but they are all out of town (in NM). As for the future, there is at least $5M in next years budget for work on SSRT. They (SDIO) have been looking for more funds and do seem to have some. However, SDIO is not (I repeat, is not) going to fund an orbital prototype. The best we can hope from them is to 1) keep it alive for another year, and 2) fund a suborbital vehicle which MIGHT (with major modifications) just make orbit. There is also some money for a set of prototype tanks and projects to answer a few more open questions. Better news comes from the new Spacelifter effort. The USAF managers of this program are very open to SSTO and will have about $50M next year for studies. This would be enough to bring DC-Y to PDR. Now not all of this money will go to DC but a good case could be made for spending half on DC. Public support is STILL critical. Meet with your Congressperson (I'll help you do it) and get his/her support. Also call your local media ans get them to cover the flight tests. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lady Astor: ""Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your coffee!"" | | W. Churchill: ""Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."" | +----------------------62 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ",14 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1r1io1INNmhk@chnews.intel.com>, cknox@sedona.intel.com (Christopher W. Knox~) writes: > > In article , billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes: > > In article pmy@vivaldi.acc.Virginia.EDU (Pete Yadlowsky) writes: > > > > >Arms? Automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers? The sorts of things > > >no family should be without, I guess. Anyway, I've often wondered what > > >business followers of Christ would have with weapons. It's hard to imagine a > > >pistol-packin' Jesus, though I suppose a pump-action shotgun would have > > >made clearing the temple a hell of a lot easier. > > Luke's account of the Last Supper. ""...sell your cloak and buy a > sword."" Peter carried a sword (scene in Gethsemane). > I'm not expert on Christianity, but I know a little about history and how the repeated instances of Messianic figures (jesus was neither the first, last nor most serious of those pretenders) related to the history of the period. A messiah in those days was to bring salvation from the Romans! He was supposed to reclaim Israel and Judaea, bring the Israelites back from what is now Iraq-Persia-Afghanistan, and do so not only by faith, but by real war. Any Messianic pretender would tell his followers to get ready for war, since they were going to throw the Romans out of Judaea and free the Israelites. For those interested, Bar Kochba's claim was taken far more seriously than Jesus' among the Jews. They revolted and 600,000 were slaughtered by the Romans. His claim was only rejected after his defeat, although for a short time he looked as though he would win. They even got to mint coins before the Romans triumphed. Now how that has played into Christianity is rather interesting given your use of the statement attributed to Jesus. Did Koresh figure he had to get rid of the US government to free Israel? Had he the foggiest notion of who are todays descendants of the Israelites? (one hint, almost none of them are Christians, look at the three countries listed above, they were their and Jewish until at least the 10th century) Seth Rosenthal Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'. ",19 "'90 VW Jetta GL for sale -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, I'm posting this for a friend. Please direct all replys to his email address listed below. Thanks For Sale '90 VW Jetta GL - 31,000 miles - 4 Door - Sunroof - 5 Speed - Black with gray interior - Removable AM/FM/Cassette - Clean Asking $6900. Please contact Abbas Birjandi phone 617.239.0228 email birjandi@cs.umb.edu ",6 "Lead Acid batteries & Concrete? I was just wondering one thing, actually two. ( I hope that this is the proper place to post this subject) Why does a lead acid battery discharge and become dead (totally unuseable) when stored on a concrete floor? I decided to bring the battery in from the lawn mower and the motorcycle from the unheated garage this year, *to preserve them* and I just went to use them and noticed that not only do they not work, but they act like the two terminals are shorted. I asked a friend and he said that you should never do that, 'cause it ruins them, but he couldn't tell me why. thanks camter28@astro.ocis.temple.edu ",12 "Re: Where are all the Bruins fans??? Good point - there haven't even been any recent posts about Ulf! Secretly, I'm convinced that he's responsible for the Bs being down 3-0 to Buffalo, somehow. ",10 "Re: comparing saabs & bmw's I dont know about Saabs but whenever there is a 'long temr tset' in a magazine they always say that tehy're are little annoying niggles which keep on occuring every so often... I wouldn't expect that from such a 'quality' car.... why doesn't anything like this ever happen on BMWs? Maybe coz they're 'quality' cars ;-) ....Shaz.... ",7 "Re: ABORTION and private health coverage -- letters regarding In <1qk73q$3fj@agate.berkeley.edu> dzkriz@ocf.berkeley.edu (Dennis Kriz) writes: >Or are we >going to start forcing Jews to eat pork, Quakers to fight in wars, etc? Can Jews (who keep kosher) withhold the part of their taxes that pays for pork inspectors? Can Quakers withhold the part of their taxes that pays for the military? -- Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet) ",18 "Re: What do Nuclear Site's Cooling Towers do? Just to complete that thought, the cooling towers cool water that circulates through heat exchangers that recondense the turbine exhaust back into feedwater for the heat exchangers that transfer energy from the reactor's cooling circuit. |---------------| |------turbine, etc---| |---------| | > > > > . reactor < < < > . | > > > > C. T. |---------------| |--------------------| |---------- The reactor has a closed loop circuit to prevent radioactive contamination of the the turbine feedwater. The cooling tower is a separate circuit to avoide contamination of the turbine feedwater with atmospheric contamininats, etc. Purifying boiler feedwater is important business at both fossil fired and nuclear generation facilities. -- Bill Mayhew NEOUCOM Computer Services Department Rootstown, OH 44272-9995 USA phone: 216-325-2511 wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (140.220.1.1) 146.580: N8WED ",12 "Re: Islam And Scientific Predictions (was >DATE: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 15:23:54 GMT >FROM: Umar Khan > > His conclusion was that, >while he was impressed that what little the Holy Qur'an had to >say about science was accurate, he was far more impressed that the >Holy Qur'an did not contain the same rampant errors evidenced in >the Traditions. How would a man of 7th Century Arabia have known >what *not to include* in the Holy Qur'an (assuming he had authored >it)? > Well, it looks like the folks in soc.religion.islam have loosened up a bit and are discussing this topic as well as the banking/interest topic. A few books on the subject have also been mentioned in addition to the one you mentioned. These may be hard to find, but I think I may take a stab at it out of curiosity. I know the one film I saw on this subject was pretty weak and the only two quotes I have seen which were used to show science in the Koran (which I posted here) were also pretty vague. I suspect that these books will extrapolate an awful lot on the quotes they have. At least one poster on the Islam channel seems to have some misgivings about the practice of using the Koran to decide what is good science. I wonder if Islam has ever come up with the equivalent of the Christians ""Creation Science"" on any topic. It would be interesting to find a history of scientific interpretations of the Koran, to see if anyone used the Koran to support earlier science which has since been discarded. It is all too easy to look at science as it exists today and then ""interpret"" passages to match those findings. People do similar things with the sayings of Nostradamus all the time. Anyway, it is a rather unique claim of Islam and may be worth checking. ",0 "Re: ? Octopus In article <16BB6EA2A.LMARSHA@cms.cc.wayne.edu>, LMARSHA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Laurie Marshall) says: > >In article >filipows@spk.hp.com (Dennis Filipowski) writes: > >> > > Door attendants at the Joe Louis Arena have been checking fans for >octopuses (sp?), as they are NOT allow in the Arena. I want to know >where these people are hiding these octopuses. Everytime I've been to >the Joe they checked my purse and that's the only place I can think of >putting one. Any other Wings fans out there know of ways to sneak >these octopuses into the Joe? You mean they don't strip-search you and do cavity checks!? THE FOOLS!! ",10 "Alt.Atheism FAQ: Atheist Resources Archive-name: atheism/resources Alt-atheism-archive-name: resources Last-modified: 11 December 1992 Version: 1.0 Atheist Resources Addresses of Atheist Organizations USA FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION Darwin fish bumper stickers and assorted other atheist paraphernalia are available from the Freedom From Religion Foundation in the US. Write to: FFRF, P.O. Box 750, Madison, WI 53701. Telephone: (608) 256-8900 EVOLUTION DESIGNS Evolution Designs sell the ""Darwin fish"". It's a fish symbol, like the ones Christians stick on their cars, but with feet and the word ""Darwin"" written inside. The deluxe moulded 3D plastic fish is $4.95 postpaid in the US. Write to: Evolution Designs, 7119 Laurel Canyon #4, North Hollywood, CA 91605. People in the San Francisco Bay area can get Darwin Fish from Lynn Gold -- try mailing . For net people who go to Lynn directly, the price is $4.95 per fish. AMERICAN ATHEIST PRESS AAP publish various atheist books -- critiques of the Bible, lists of Biblical contradictions, and so on. One such book is: ""The Bible Handbook"" by W.P. Ball and G.W. Foote. American Atheist Press. 372 pp. ISBN 0-910309-26-4, 2nd edition, 1986. Bible contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, immoralities... contains Ball, Foote: ""The Bible Contradicts Itself"", AAP. Based on the King James version of the Bible. Write to: American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 140195, Austin, TX 78714-0195. or: 7215 Cameron Road, Austin, TX 78752-2973. Telephone: (512) 458-1244 Fax: (512) 467-9525 PROMETHEUS BOOKS Sell books including Haught's ""Holy Horrors"" (see below). Write to: 700 East Amherst Street, Buffalo, New York 14215. Telephone: (716) 837-2475. An alternate address (which may be newer or older) is: Prometheus Books, 59 Glenn Drive, Buffalo, NY 14228-2197. AFRICAN-AMERICANS FOR HUMANISM An organization promoting black secular humanism and uncovering the history of black freethought. They publish a quarterly newsletter, AAH EXAMINER. Write to: Norm R. Allen, Jr., African Americans for Humanism, P.O. Box 664, Buffalo, NY 14226. United Kingdom Rationalist Press Association National Secular Society 88 Islington High Street 702 Holloway Road London N1 8EW London N19 3NL 071 226 7251 071 272 1266 British Humanist Association South Place Ethical Society 14 Lamb's Conduit Passage Conway Hall London WC1R 4RH Red Lion Square 071 430 0908 London WC1R 4RL fax 071 430 1271 071 831 7723 The National Secular Society publish ""The Freethinker"", a monthly magazine founded in 1881. Germany IBKA e.V. Internationaler Bund der Konfessionslosen und Atheisten Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany. IBKA publish a journal: MIZ. (Materialien und Informationen zur Zeit. Politisches Journal der Konfessionslosesn und Atheisten. Hrsg. IBKA e.V.) MIZ-Vertrieb, Postfach 880, D-1000 Berlin 41. Germany. For atheist books, write to: IBDK, Internationaler B""ucherdienst der Konfessionslosen Postfach 3005, D-3000 Hannover 1. Germany. Telephone: 0511/211216 Books -- Fiction THOMAS M. DISCH ""The Santa Claus Compromise"" Short story. The ultimate proof that Santa exists. All characters and events are fictitious. Any similarity to living or dead gods -- uh, well... WALTER M. MILLER, JR ""A Canticle for Leibowitz"" One gem in this post atomic doomsday novel is the monks who spent their lives copying blueprints from ""Saint Leibowitz"", filling the sheets of paper with ink and leaving white lines and letters. EDGAR PANGBORN ""Davy"" Post atomic doomsday novel set in clerical states. The church, for example, forbids that anyone ""produce, describe or use any substance containing... atoms"". PHILIP K. DICK Philip K. Dick Dick wrote many philosophical and thought-provoking short stories and novels. His stories are bizarre at times, but very approachable. He wrote mainly SF, but he wrote about people, truth and religion rather than technology. Although he often believed that he had met some sort of God, he remained sceptical. Amongst his novels, the following are of some relevance: ""Galactic Pot-Healer"" A fallible alien deity summons a group of Earth craftsmen and women to a remote planet to raise a giant cathedral from beneath the oceans. When the deity begins to demand faith from the earthers, pot-healer Joe Fernwright is unable to comply. A polished, ironic and amusing novel. ""A Maze of Death"" Noteworthy for its description of a technology-based religion. ""VALIS"" The schizophrenic hero searches for the hidden mysteries of Gnostic Christianity after reality is fired into his brain by a pink laser beam of unknown but possibly divine origin. He is accompanied by his dogmatic and dismissively atheist friend and assorted other odd characters. ""The Divine Invasion"" God invades Earth by making a young woman pregnant as she returns from another star system. Unfortunately she is terminally ill, and must be assisted by a dead man whose brain is wired to 24-hour easy listening music. MARGARET ATWOOD ""The Handmaid's Tale"" A story based on the premise that the US Congress is mysteriously assassinated, and fundamentalists quickly take charge of the nation to set it ""right"" again. The book is the diary of a woman's life as she tries to live under the new Christian theocracy. Women's right to own property is revoked, and their bank accounts are closed; sinful luxuries are outlawed, and the radio is only used for readings from the Bible. Crimes are punished retroactively: doctors who performed legal abortions in the ""old world"" are hunted down and hanged. Atwood's writing style is difficult to get used to at first, but the tale grows more and more chilling as it goes on. VARIOUS AUTHORS ""The Bible"" This somewhat dull and rambling work has often been criticized. However, it is probably worth reading, if only so that you'll know what all the fuss is about. It exists in many different versions, so make sure you get the one true version. Books -- Non-fiction PETER DE ROSA ""Vicars of Christ"", Bantam Press, 1988 Although de Rosa seems to be Christian or even Catholic this is a very enlighting history of papal immoralities, adulteries, fallacies etc. (German translation: ""Gottes erste Diener. Die dunkle Seite des Papsttums"", Droemer-Knaur, 1989) MICHAEL MARTIN ""Atheism: A Philosophical Justification"", Temple University Press, Philadelphia, USA. A detailed and scholarly justification of atheism. Contains an outstanding appendix defining terminology and usage in this (necessarily) tendentious area. Argues both for ""negative atheism"" (i.e. the ""non-belief in the existence of god(s)"") and also for ""positive atheism"" (""the belief in the non-existence of god(s)""). Includes great refutations of the most challenging arguments for god; particular attention is paid to refuting contempory theists such as Platinga and Swinburne. 541 pages. ISBN 0-87722-642-3 (hardcover; paperback also available) ""The Case Against Christianity"", Temple University Press A comprehensive critique of Christianity, in which he considers the best contemporary defences of Christianity and (ultimately) demonstrates that they are unsupportable and/or incoherent. 273 pages. ISBN 0-87722-767-5 JAMES TURNER ""Without God, Without Creed"", The Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, MD, USA Subtitled ""The Origins of Unbelief in America"". Examines the way in which unbelief (whether agnostic or atheistic) became a mainstream alternative world-view. Focusses on the period 1770-1900, and while considering France and Britain the emphasis is on American, and particularly New England developments. ""Neither a religious history of secularization or atheism, Without God, Without Creed is, rather, the intellectual history of the fate of a single idea, the belief that God exists."" 316 pages. ISBN (hardcover) 0-8018-2494-X (paper) 0-8018-3407-4 GEORGE SELDES (Editor) ""The great thoughts"", Ballantine Books, New York, USA A ""dictionary of quotations"" of a different kind, concentrating on statements and writings which, explicitly or implicitly, present the person's philosophy and world-view. Includes obscure (and often suppressed) opinions from many people. For some popular observations, traces the way in which various people expressed and twisted the idea over the centuries. Quite a number of the quotations are derived from Cardiff's ""What Great Men Think of Religion"" and Noyes' ""Views of Religion"". 490 pages. ISBN (paper) 0-345-29887-X. RICHARD SWINBURNE ""The Existence of God (Revised Edition)"", Clarendon Paperbacks, Oxford This book is the second volume in a trilogy that began with ""The Coherence of Theism"" (1977) and was concluded with ""Faith and Reason"" (1981). In this work, Swinburne attempts to construct a series of inductive arguments for the existence of God. His arguments, which are somewhat tendentious and rely upon the imputation of late 20th century western Christian values and aesthetics to a God which is supposedly as simple as can be conceived, were decisively rejected in Mackie's ""The Miracle of Theism"". In the revised edition of ""The Existence of God"", Swinburne includes an Appendix in which he makes a somewhat incoherent attempt to rebut Mackie. J. L. MACKIE ""The Miracle of Theism"", Oxford This (posthumous) volume contains a comprehensive review of the principal arguments for and against the existence of God. It ranges from the classical philosophical positions of Descartes, Anselm, Berkeley, Hume et al, through the moral arguments of Newman, Kant and Sidgwick, to the recent restatements of the classical theses by Plantinga and Swinburne. It also addresses those positions which push the concept of God beyond the realm of the rational, such as those of Kierkegaard, Kung and Philips, as well as ""replacements for God"" such as Lelie's axiarchism. The book is a delight to read - less formalistic and better written than Martin's works, and refreshingly direct when compared with the hand-waving of Swinburne. JAMES A. HAUGHT ""Holy Horrors: An Illustrated History of Religious Murder and Madness"", Prometheus Books Looks at religious persecution from ancient times to the present day -- and not only by Christians. Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 89-64079. 1990. NORM R. ALLEN, JR. ""African American Humanism: an Anthology"" See the listing for African Americans for Humanism above. GORDON STEIN ""An Anthology of Atheism and Rationalism"", Prometheus Books An anthology covering a wide range of subjects, including 'The Devil, Evil and Morality' and 'The History of Freethought'. Comprehensive bibliography. EDMUND D. COHEN ""The Mind of The Bible-Believer"", Prometheus Books A study of why people become Christian fundamentalists, and what effect it has on them. Net Resources There's a small mail-based archive server at mantis.co.uk which carries archives of old alt.atheism.moderated articles and assorted other files. For more information, send mail to archive-server@mantis.co.uk saying help send atheism/index and it will mail back a reply. mathew ÿ ",0 "Re: Jewish Baseball Players? In article <1993Apr15.214421.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu writes: I remember reading somewhere that 7% of the league was jewish during the 50's. Now, there is practically NOBODY ",9 "Re: Tieing Abortion to Health Reform -- Is Clinton Nuts? wws@roberts.colorado.edu (Wendy Sullivan) writes: >In article parker@eehp27 (Robert Scott Parker) writes: >>taite@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes: >>>In article parker@ehsn17.cen.uiuc.edu (Robert S. Parker) writes: >>>> >>>[mucho delete-o, before and after] > lots deleted here as well... >> >>Anyone who supports the legality of abortion but objects to it being >>covered by a universal health care program (that covers nearly everything >>else, as well) is contradicting themselves. > Actually, I believe anyone that supports the legality of abortion but > supports it being covered by a universal health care program is > contradicting themselves. I am pro-choice, but I am also anti-government- > funding-for-abortion. Why? > Example: if a pro-lifer writes on the net that abortion should be illegal, > he/she is immediately flamed with ""you have no right to impose your morals > on everyone. If you don't support abortion, don't have one; but don't take > the choice away from everyone."" By supporting government funding I feel I > would be saying ""If you don't support abortions, tough, because you are > paying for them anyway"". To me this no longer makes it a mutually exclusive > choice issue (which invalidates a main argument of many pro-choicers); I > would be forcing my morals on pro-lifers. In this respect I feel the > hypocrisy of supporting government funding and being pro-'choice' greatly > outweighs any hypocrisy of not supporting government funding and being > pro-choice. Ok, one last time. (yeah right) In order for *you* to ""not pay for any abortions"" through your tax money, *everyone* would have to ""not pay for any abortions"" through tax money. If this is the case, then women who have reasons for ""needing"" an abortion, but are unable to afford it on their own, are just ""out of luck"". Their *choice* is blocked because of econonmic hardship--which is part of why they might ""need"" the abortion in the first place--and because *some* people don't want to ""pay for any abortions"". On top of that, there is the assumed requirement that the governemnt pay the delivery costs for those women who can't afford it, which will also include all of those women who could not afford an abortion. This involves *more money*. Suppose instead there *is* government funding of abortions for women who desire them but can not afford one on their own. Those who do not want an abortion will have the costs of their delivery covered (if they can not afford it on their own), and those who *do* want an abortion will be able to get one and *save the government money* in the process. How then are you ""paying for"" an abortion? Rather that abortion is ""paid for"" by the cost of *delivery* that it *saves* (and then some), and all because we remove the restriction against funding of a perfectly legal procedure. (Notice that this does not apply to cosmetic surgery, which is often used as an example of ""elective surgery"" that is not generally paid for just because it is desired and can not be afforded.) If you insist on complaining about ""paying for"" someone's choice to have an abortion when they can't afford it, I will complain about ""paying for"" the larger costs of *restricting* that choice when they can not afford it. Why should you pay for someone else's choice? Why should I pay more to *restrict* someone's choice? >(a bunch of other stuff deleted - not related to me :) ) >> >>A pro-choice majority would not be enough for one of the two pro-choice >>candidates to win, however a pro-life majority *should* have been enough >>for the only pro-life candidate to win. I think the fact that he didn't >>says something about the number of ""pro-life"" people in the country. > No, it says something about abortion not being the most important issue to > many pro-lifers (as well as everyone else). I personally think it is > stupid to vote for someone because of their stance on *one* issue :) . A pro-lifer who does not consider abortion an *extreemly* important issue is an oxymoron. If it's not important enough for you to vote the way you feel because of ""other issues"", then why should anyone take your insistance that ""abortion is wrong"" seriously? >>> People's perception >>>of the economy and Bush's apparent indifference (coupled with a liberal >>>media) were more likely explanations. It would be awfully nice if reputable poll institutions would have a *clear*, unbiased poll on the issues of abortion. In order to be unbiased there would have to be allowance made for ""shades of grey"", rather than lump all of the middle with one side by tricky wording--such as on the last poll I heard about. Of course, then we would know once and for all how the country *really* feels about it, and then what could we argue about? > (other stuff deleted- left for Ralph to answer :) ) >> >>> Ralph D. Taite >>> President, Institute for Conservative Policy Review >> >>I still haven't heard of Clinton doing anything that sounded contrary to >>my understanding of his position prior to the election, nor anything I >>object to. >> > He's already done a lot that I object to... but then I have yet to endure > a president that hasn't :) Did you vote for him in the first place? (You don't *have* to answer that, if you consider it none of our business.) >>-Rob >Wendy -Rob ",19 "Re: Science and Methodology In article <1993Apr11.015518.21198@sbcs.sunysb.edu> mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway) writes: >In article lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes: >>I would also like to point out that most of the arguments about science >>in sci.med, sci.psychology, etc. are not about cases where people are >>rejecting scientific argument/evidence/proof. They are about cases where >>no adequate scientific research has been done. (In some cases, there is >>quite a bit of evidence, but it isn't in a format to fit doctrinaire >>conceptions of what science is.) > >Here it is again. This indicates confusion between ""proof"" and the process >of doing science. You are making precisely one of the points I wanted to make. I fully agree with you that there is a big distinction between the *process* of science and the end result. As an end result of science, one wants to get results that are objectively verifiable. But there is nothing objective about the *process* of science. If good empirical research were done and showed that there is some merit to homeopathic remedies, this would certainly be valuable information. But it would still not mean that homeopathy qualifies as a science. This is where you and I disagree with Turpin. In order to have science, one must have a theoretical structure that makes sense, not a mere collection of empirically validated random hypotheses. Experiment and empirical studies are an important part of science, but they are merely the culmination of scientific research. The most important part of true scientific methodology is SCIENTIFIC THINKING. Without this, one does not have any hypotheses worth testing. (No, hypotheses do not just leap out at you after you look at enough data. Nor do they simply come to you in a flash one day while you're shaving or looking out the window. At least not unless you've done a lot of really good thinking beforehand.) The difference between a Nobel Prize level scientist and a mediocre scientist does not lie in the quality of their empirical methodology. It depends on the quality of their THINKING. It really bothers me that so many graduate students seem to believe that they are doing science merely because they are conducting empirical studies. And it bothers me even more that there are many fields, such as certain parts of psychology, where there seems to be no thinking at all, but mere studies testing ad hoc hypotheses. And I'm especially offended by Russell Turpin's repeated assertion that science amounts to nothing more than avoiding mistakes. Simply avoiding mistakes doesn't get you anywhere. -- In the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems less like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. lady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu lady@uhunix.bitnet ",13 "Re: Creating 8 bit windows on 24 bit display.. How? In article <1993Apr16.093209.25719@fwi.uva.nl>, stolk@fwi.uva.nl (Bram) writes: > I am using an X server that provides 3 visuals: PseudoColor 8 bit, > Truecolor 24 bit and DirectColor 24 bit. Lucky dog... :-) > A problem occurs when I try to create a window with a visual that is > different from the visual of the parent (which uses the default > visual which is TC24). > In the Xlib reference guide from 'O reilly one can read in the > section about XCteateWindow, something like: > In the current implementation of X11: When using a visual other > than the parent's, be sure to create or find a suitable colourmap > which is to be used in the window attributes when creating, or > else a BadMatch occurs. > This warning, strangely enough, is only mentioned in the newer > editions of the X11R5 guides. It applies with equal force to earlier versions. Presumably only recently did the author(s) decide it was important enough to mention. The necessity it refers to has always been there, but it's been implicit in the way CreateWindow requests default some attributes of the new window. > However, even if I pass along a suitable colourmap, I still get a > BadMatch when I create a window with a non-default visual. > attr.colormap = cmap; > win = XCreateWindow( [...] > CopyFromParent, /* border width */ > 8, /* depth */ > InputOutput, /* class */ > vinfo.visual, /* visual */ > CWColormap, > &attr > ); This is because the warning you read is incomplete. You have to provide not only a colormap but also a border. The default border is CopyFromParent, which is not valid when the window's depth doesn't match its parent's. Specify a border-pixmap of the correct depth, or a border-pixel, and the problem should go away. There is another problem: I can't find anything to indicate that CopyFromParent makes any sense as the border_width parameter to XCreateWindow. Your Xlib implementation probably defines CopyFromParent as zero, to simplify the conversion to wire format, so you are unwittingly asking for a border width of zero, due to the Xlib implementation not providing stricter type-checking. (To be fair, I'm not entirely certain it's possible for Xlib to catch this.) der Mouse mouse@mcrcim.mcgill.edu ",5 "Car alarm info. (UNGO BOX) I want to get a car alarm and I am thinking about getting an Ungo Box. Does anyone out there have any knowledge or experience with any of these alarms? How about price ranges for the different models? Are these good car alarms? Please email me any responces. cak3@ns3.lehigh.edu Chad Chad ",7 "Re: Limiting Govt (was Re: Employment (was Re: Why not concentrate...) In article <18APR199314034390@venus.tamu.edu> gmw0622@venus.tamu.edu (Mr. Grinch) writes: >In article <1993Apr18.172531.10946@isc-br.isc-br.com>, steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes... >> >:It would seem that a society with a ""failed"" government would be an ideal >:setting for libertarian ideals to be implemented. Now why do you suppose >:that never seems to occur?... > > >I fail to see why you should feel this way in the first place. Constant >combat isn't particularly conducive to intellectual theorizing. Also, >they tend to get invaded before they can come to anything like a stable >society anyway. And the reason that the Soviet Union couldn't achieve the ideal of pure communism was the hostility of surrounding capitalist nations...Uh huh. Somehow, this all sounds familiar. Once again, utopian dreams are confronted by the real world... > >Mr. Grinch -- Steve Hendricks | DOMAIN: steveh@thor.ISC-BR.COM ""One thing about data, it sure does cut| UUCP: ...!uunet!isc-br!thor!steveh the bulls**t."" - R. Hofferbert | Ma Bell: 509 838-8826 ",18 "[ANNOUNCE] Ivan Sutherland to speak at Harvard The Harvard Computer Society is pleased to announce its third lecture of the spring. Ivan Sutherland, the father of computer graphics and an innovator in microprocessing, will be speaking at Harvard University on Tuesday, April 20, 1993, at 4:00 pm in Aiken Computations building, room 101. The title of his talk is ""Logical Effort and the Conflict over the Control of Information."" Cookies and tea will be served at 3:30 pm in the Aiken Lobby. Admissions is free, and all are welcome. Aiken is located north of the Science Center near the Law School. For more information, send e-mail to eekim@husc.harvard.edu. The lecture will be videotaped, and a tape will be made available. Thanks. -- Eugene Kim '96 | ""Give me a place to stand, and I will INTERNET: eekim@husc.harvard.edu | move the earth."" --Archimedes ",1 "Walter? Walter- I tried several times in the past to communicate with you and Susan, but you ignored me, and I don't honestly believe my letters were mean. Rather I thought they were thoughtful and compassionate, but I see now what I should have seen then. Call me naive. I give up on this group. As my Lord advised, that if you are unwelcome in a city then brush the dust of your feet and go on. If anyone cares about the topic they write to me direct, if not, well, may God bless you as well. Bye to this group. PAX ",19 "Re: Latest on Branch Davidians In article , conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt) wrote: > I think it's really sad that so many people put their faith in a mere > man, even if he did claim to be the son of God, and/or a prophet. It is just as Christ said about his return: ""Some will say, 'He is in the desert.' or some will say, 'He is in the wilderness.' But do not believe them. For as lightning flashes east to west so shall the coming of the Son of Man be."" { My paraphrase - I think the verse is somewhere in John } Jon ---------------- sig file broken.... please try later... ---------------- ",15 "Re: Clinton's immunization program In article <1993Apr14.122758.11467@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlinder@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeffrey S Linder) writes: >In article mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.C >OM (Mark Wilson) writes: >>On the news last night Clinton was bashing the republicans for stonewalling >>his so called stimulus package. >>It seems that one small item within this package was going to pay for free >>immunizations for poor kids. > >Immunizations for children in this country are already free if you care to >go have it done. The problem is not the cost, it is the irresponible parents >who are to stupid or to lazy to have it done. In case you haven't noticed, Clintonites are pushing a universal health care ACCESS program. ""Access"" here means that folks who do not give a damn about immunizing their children will have health care services delivered to their doorsteps. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",18 "Re: A true story - Way to go Omar In article <1993Apr14.173236.14321@esca.com>, vigil@esca.com (Sandra Vigil) writes: |> Yesterday, April 14th, a friend and I were discussing the theory put |> forth by a local sports radio station personality that the |> Commissioner-less baseball owners had snuck a live ball into this years |> baseball games in an effort to increase home run numbers and attract |> fans. It's always possible, but if this is the case, I think that there is some blatant discrimination going on here. Clearly Selig is allowing the opposition to use pre-1920 baseballs against the Dodgers. |> Well, guess who stepped up to the plate for his first career grand slam |> last night against the Jays? None other than my boy. It was truly a |> sight to behold. And almost more impressive was that he also got an intentional walk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length paula@koufax.cv.hp.com Paul Andresen Hewlett-Packard (503)-750-3511 home: 3006 NW McKinley Corvallis, OR 97330 (503)-752-8424 A SABR member since 1979 ",9 "Re: RKBA on NYC radio station |> Actually, the real reason that Stern was getting a bigger rating share was that |> he was new in D.C., not because of the quality (if you can call it that) of |> his show. After the Fine was issued he started to get better ratings because |> of the curious individuals who wanted to see how bad he actually was. Since |> he came to D.C. he has had a greater turn over of listeners than the ""Grease"" |> has. In other words, more people get sick of him sooner than they do of the |> ""Grease"". After all, saying vagina or penis on the air is hilarious at first, |> the second time it is still a little funny, but when you do it all the time, |> and at the same time, think you are the greatest man on the planet (and tell |> everyone so) than you are going to get old really quick. |> Give it up Mark you are WRONG. |> Excuse me, but if you really new what the show was about, you'd know that he doesn't just say vagina and penis and that is how he get's his ratings. He also addresss real issues as well as being outrageous. I don't hear any of these other idiots doing a funny show and getting into some serious topics at the same time, he get's people to think and entertains them at the same time, so try listening to his show a little closer before you tell them that they are WRONG, and by the way, if he is such a flash in the pan, why do his ratings sustain so well? Hmm? -- ----------------------------------------------- Greg W. Lazar greg@puck.webo.dg.com J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS ----------------------------------------------- ",16 "Re: Laser vs Bubblejet? In article <1993Apr21.170932.18356@news.columbia.edu> kn1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Kimball Ng) writes: >kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes: > >>One other thing... there are bubblejets, and then there are BubbleJets. >>There are a few bubblejets out there that produce rather mediocre output >>(such as HP's dinky little BubbleJet), whereas most produce really good >>looking output (such as HP's DeskJets). IBM and Canon both produce some of >>the really good style bubblejets. ** I am considering either an inkjet or bubble jet printer. I've seen inkjet printers and I was impressed with the near lazer quality. I have heard a lot of bad things about the cheaper bubble-jet printers. Does the ink smudge very easily and take a long time to dry ? Thanks. -- T 3/4 c2 l1(s) hbl d- a w+ c- y e++ g f t+ k++ s++ m1+ * Graham Wilson * lsg001@cck.coventry.ac.uk * * LL.B. Law III * Coventry University * S8 b+ g- l-- y+ z/ n-- o++ x+ a- u+ v- j++ ",12 "Finding equally spaced points on a sphere. Hello, I know that this has been discussed before. But at the time I didn't need to teselate a sphere. So if any kind soul has the code or the alg, that was finally decided upon as the best (as I recall it was a nice, iterative subdivision meathod), I would be very appreciative. Thomas DeWeese deweeset@rdrc.rpi.edu ",1 "WANTED: Super 8mm Projector with SOUNDS I am looking for Super 8mm Projector with SOUNDS. If anybody out there has one for sale, send email with the name of brand, condition of the projector, and price for sale to kimd@rpi.edu (IT MUST HAVE SOUND CAPABILITY) Danny kimd@rpi.edu ",1 "Cryptography FAQ 09/10 - Other Miscellany Archive-name: cryptography-faq/part09 Last-modified: 1993/4/15 FAQ for sci.crypt, part 9: Other Miscellany This is the ninth of ten parts of the sci.crypt FAQ. The parts are mostly independent, but you should read the first part before the rest. We don't have the time to send out missing parts by mail, so don't ask. Notes such as ``[KAH67]'' refer to the reference list in the last part. The sections of this FAQ are available via anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu as /pub/usenet/news.answers/cryptography-faq/part[xx]. The Cryptography FAQ is posted to the newsgroups sci.crypt, sci.answers, and news.answers every 21 days. Contents: * What is the National Security Agency (NSA)? * What are the US export regulations? * What is TEMPEST? * What are the Beale Ciphers, and are they a hoax? * What is the American Cryptogram Association, and how do I get in touch? * Is RSA patented? * What about the Voynich manuscript? * What is the National Security Agency (NSA)? The NSA is the official security body of the U.S. government. It was given its charter by President Truman in the late 40's, and has continued research in cryptology till the present. The NSA is known to be the largest employer of mathematicians in the world, and is also the largest purchaser of computer hardware in the world. Governments in general have always been prime employers of cryptologists. The NSA probably possesses cryptographic expertise many years ahead of the public state of the art, and can undoubtedly break many of the systems used in practice; but for reasons of national security almost all information about the NSA is classified. Bamford's book [BAMFD] gives a history of the people and operations of the NSA. The following quote from Massey [MAS88] highlights the difference between public and private research in cryptography: ``... if one regards cryptology as the prerogative of government, one accepts that most cryptologic research will be conducted behind closed doors. Without doubt, the number of workers engaged today in such secret research in cryptology far exceeds that of those engaged in open research in cryptology. For only about 10 years has there in fact been widespread open research in cryptology. There have been, and will continue to be, conflicts between these two research communities. Open research is common quest for knowledge that depends for its vitality on the open exchange of ideas via conference presentations and publications in scholarly journals. But can a government agency, charged with responsibilities of breaking the ciphers of other nations, countenance the publication of a cipher that it cannot break? Can a researcher in good conscience publish such a cipher that might undermine the effectiveness of his own government's code-breakers? One might argue that publication of a provably-secure cipher would force all governments to behave like Stimson's `gentlemen', but one must be aware that open research in cryptography is fraught with political and ethical considerations of a severity than in most scientific fields. The wonder is not that some conflicts have occurred between government agencies and open researchers in cryptology, but rather that these conflicts (at least those of which we are aware) have been so few and so mild.'' * What are the US export regulations? In a nutshell, there are two government agencies which control export of encryption software. One is the Bureau of Export Administration (BXA) in the Department of Commerce, authorized by the Export Administration Regulations (EAR). Another is the Office of Defense Trade Controls (DTC) in the State Department, authorized by the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). As a rule of thumb, BXA (which works with COCOM) has less stringent requirements, but DTC (which takes orders from NSA) wants to see everything first and can refuse to transfer jurisdiction to BXA. The newsgroup misc.legal.computing carries many interesting discussions on the laws surrounding cryptographic export, what people think about those laws, and many other complex issues which go beyond the scope of technical groups like sci.crypt. Make sure to consult your lawyer before doing anything which will get you thrown in jail; if you are lucky, your lawyer might know a lawyer who has at least heard of the ITAR. * What is TEMPEST? TEMPEST is a standard for electromagnetic shielding for computer equipment. It was created in response to the discovery that information can be read from computer radiation (e.g., from a CRT) at quite a distance and with little effort. Needless to say, encryption doesn't do much good if the cleartext is available this way. * What are the Beale Ciphers, and are they a hoax? (Thanks to Jim Gillogly for this information and John King for corrections.) The story in a pamphlet by J. B. Ward (1885) goes: Thomas Jefferson Beale and a party of adventurers accumulated a huge mass of treasure and buried it in Bedford County, Virginia, leaving three ciphers with an innkeeper; the ciphers describe the location, contents, and intended beneficiaries of the treasure. Ward gives a decryption of the second cipher (contents) called B2; it was encrypted as a book cipher using the initial letters of the Declaration of Independence (DOI) as key. B1 and B3 are unsolved; many documents have been tried as the key to B1. Aficionados can join a group that attempts to solve B1 by various means with an eye toward splitting the treasure: The Beale Cypher Association P.O. Box 975 Beaver Falls, PA 15010 You can get the ciphers from the rec.puzzles FAQL by including the line: send index in a message to netlib@peregrine.com and following the directions. (There are apparently several different versions of the cipher floating around. The correct version is based on the 1885 pamphlet, says John King .) Some believe the story is a hoax. Kruh [KRU88] gives a long list of problems with the story. Gillogly [GIL80] decrypted B1 with the DOI and found some unexpected strings, including ABFDEFGHIIJKLMMNOHPP. Hammer (president of the Beale Cypher Association) agrees that this string couldn't appear by chance, but feels there must be an explanation; Gwyn (sci.crypt expert) is unimpressed with this string. * What is the American Cryptogram Association, and how do I get in touch? The ACA is an organization devoted to cryptography, with an emphasis on cryptanalysis of systems that can be attacked either with pencil-and-paper or computers. Its organ ``The Cryptogram'' includes articles and challenge ciphers. Among the more than 50 cipher types in English and other languages are simple substitution, Playfair, Vigenere, bifid, Bazeries, grille, homophonic, and cryptarithm. Dues are $15 for one year (6 issues); more outside of North America; less for students under 18 and seniors. Subscriptions should be sent to ACA Treasurer, 18789 West Hickory St., Mundelein, IL 60060. * Is RSA patented? Yes. The patent number is 4,405,829, filed 12/14/77, granted 9/20/83. For further discussion of this patent, whether it should have been granted, algorithm patents in general, and related legal and moral issues, see comp.patents and misc.legal.computing. For information about the League for Programming Freedom see [FTPPF]. Note that one of the original purposes of comp.patents was to collect questions such as ``should RSA be patented?'', which often flooded sci.crypt and other technical newsgroups, into a more appropriate forum. * What about the Voynich manuscript? nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) says there is a mailing list on the subject. the address to write to subscribe to the VMS mailing list is: the ftp archive is: rand.org:/pub/voynich There's all sorts of information about the manuscript itself, of course. A good bibliography can be found on the ftp site. Kahn's ""The Codebreakers"" gives a good introduction. ",11 "Copper Bracelet (Sabona by Dr. John Sorenson) I have seen Copper Bracelet by the name of Sabona created by Dr. John Sorenson. I am looking for literature on the effectiveness of Copper Bracelet in dealing with Arthritis. I know in one case a 70-year old person developed bruise at the base of her left thumb after wearing the copper bracelet on her left wrist for several months. She was told the bruise is ""normal"" and would disappear. Is the bruise reason to be concerned? Should the person discontinued wearing the copper bracelet? Could anyone kindly point me to literature on copper bracelet? What are the other information on copper bracelet? Your response would be very much appreciated. Thank you. Lau Hon-Wah -- ",13 "Re: where to put your helmet In article uupcb@compdyn.questor.org, ryan_cousineau@compdyn.questor.org (Ryan Cousineau) writes: > >Another good place for your helmet is your mirror (!). I kid you not. If >you own a typical standard or other bike with fairly average mirrors >that screw into your handlebars, your helmet should fit over your mirror >and be fairly stable Be careful that you do not have any weight of the helmet resting on the mirror. It will depress the foam liner in the helmet. That is not the kind of foam that bounces back, like foam rubber. Its purpose in life is to absorb energy in an impact as it is compressed by your noggin. If your mirror compresses it, there is that much less energy absorbing capacity left to cushon your noggin in a crash. I found the right handlebar to be a good spot, if on the sidestand. Hang with the chinbar facing up, balanced across the grip and brake lever such that the weight of the helmet doesn't compress any of the chinbar foam. This is more challanging with an open face helmet. --- Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker, Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM |and I showed him a picture of you. I said, DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |""Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"" (The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do... ",8 "Sabres/Bruins notes It was unlikely, improbable. For the Bruins, it was the stuff of nightmares; for the Sabres, it was a taste of heaven. For the first time since 1983, the Sabres have won the first three games of a series. Last time was a three games to none victory in a best of five against the Canadiens. It takes a little more work this time. The Sabres seem ready to put in the extra work. On the heels of a shutout, one that took away Boston's home ice advantage, the Sabres came back with a four to three overtime win. It wasn't easy. It wasn't always pretty. It still worked. John Blue got the nod for Boston, supplanting Andy Moog as starting goaltender. Moog was pulled midway through game 2 on Tuesday. Buffalo started with a goal by Mogilny, his fourth of the playoffs, on the powerplay, with Boston's Don Sweeney and Gord Roberts in the box. LaFontaine and Hawerchuk had the assists. Goal number two was Khmylev's first of the playoffs, a pretty goal scored when the Sabres stole the puck and passed to an open and waiting Khmylev. Smehlik and Hannan assisted. Determined not to be shut out, Boston tallied on a shot by Ray Bourque on the powerplay, with Colin Patterson and Bob Sweeney both in the box. Period two was scoreless, a split of penalties between the two clubs. The third saw Boston's Smolinski get his first, courtesy of Oates. Buffalo resecured the lead two minutes later, from former Bruin Bob Sweeney (Khmylev and Carney). Neely tied the game 3/4 of the way through the third, sending it into overtime. Last year overtime meant a Bruin win. Last night, it spelled sweet revenge, as Buffalo scored with Ray Bourque in the penalty box, on a tip in by Khmylev (Hawerchuk and LaFontaine) a minute into overtime. Both teams finished with 34 shots. Power-play conversions--Boston 5-1. Buffalo 7-2. Referee--Rob Shick. Comments: Shick pocketed the whistle in the third, allowing a lot of clutching and grabbing. Buffalo's penalty killing unit was fantastic again. Mogilny was checking. Granted he missed once and instead flung his body into the boards, but checking like this is a novel idea to Mogilny. The crowd was unbelievable. I don't think I've ever heard a crowd that loud in the Aud for a Sabres game (remember, I was only five when they played for the cup. I don't remember it and no one took me to the games). Doug Bodger, in a postgame interview, noted that he tried to say something to Hawerchuk, but the crowd was too loud, even though he was shouting. It didn't seem to matter, as most of the Sabres and even Muckler said it was great. Yuri Khmylev didn't seem to realize that he was the game's third star and didn't skate out when his name was called. Sweeney (2) and Fuhr (1) each were out before Yuri made his appearance, sans jersey. When asked in an interview later whether he knew how big a goal that was, he responed yes (ok, it was through an interpreter and he said more than that, even more than the interpreter said, but I digress). The interviewer seemed to think just because he doesn't speak English, he must not understand playoffs. Uh-huh. -- Valerie Hammerl John Sr. would lift Pat over the boards, grab hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu his hand, and start running around the outside, V085PWPZ@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU faster and faster. ""I wanted to learn how to get that feeling, and the only way was to learn how to skate."" P. LaFontaine ",10 "Re: Braves Update!! In article , steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) says: > >The events I saw were: >1) Called strike by Hirschbeck >2) Shocked-looking Gant asks for appeal to first >3) No appeal to first >4) Gant steps out of batters box. >5) Hirschbeck *immediately* orders Gant back in. [bad move] Even I noticed that Gant's demeanor was not one of a batter attempting to regain his concentration. Gant was stalking off. I wonder if Gant said something to the ump? >6) Gant ignores Hirschbeck and walks off. [bad move] Actually, there was a small hand wave by Gant...as if to say 'Don't bother me'. Gant may have said something here, too. >7) Hirschbeck yells at Gant. Gant is silent. >8) Hirschbeck calls for the pitch. >9) Pitch is called a strike. >10) Cox argues (couldn't see when he came on the field) Cox was already halfway to the ump when the strike was called. >11) Cox is ejected, players everywhere >12) Play finally resumes. > >Gant shouldn't have ignored Hirschbeck. Not returning made the strike >call fairly likely. Although I suspect an argument might have gotten >Gant tossed altogether. But if Hirschbeck had let Gant step out, the >whole incident probably would have been avoided. My impression was that Gant was not 'stepping out.' He was making a protest about the lack of an appeal to first. As has been pointed out earlier, there is no appeal to first on a strike. I can understand Gant feeling a little pressure in a two-out, RISP, 1 - 0 game, ninth inning. He let it get to him. The ump also overreacted. Gant was stalking off, but I doubt he would have been gone long. Hirschbeck should have let him have a moment to compose himself before telling him to come bat. IMHO, umpires should be more flexible than what Hirschbeck showed. Gant was disturbed to the point it was pretty likely he would not get a hit. A very bad finish to a pretty good game. >-- >Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic > > ""It is considered good to look wise, especially when not > overburdened with information"" -- J. Golden Kimball -------------------------------------- Wayne Barber - Data Support Specialist University of Maine System INTERNET: Barber@Maine.Maine.Edu ",9 "More propaganda Just saw on CNN that the independent team that examined the Waco fire and reported that it was started inside by the BDs is now under question. The attoneys for the BD's are claiming that it's not an impartial team for the team leader is the wife of one of the BATF agents. HA! The goverment continues with it's propaganda. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - This is not a secure line. - - Daniel R. Oldham oldham@heron.icd.ab.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",16 "Re: x86 ~= 680x0 ?? (How do they compare?) rvenkate@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Ravikuma Venkateswar) writes ... >ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes: >>040 486 030 386 020 286 > >How about some numbers here? Some kind of benchmark? Benchmarks are for marketing dweebs and CPU envy. OK, if it will make you happy, the 486 is faster than the 040. BFD. Both architectures are nearing then end of their lifetimes. And especially with the x86 architecture: good riddance. >Besides, for 0 wait state performance, you'd need a cache anyway. I mean, >who uses a processor that runs at the speed of 80ns SIMMs? Note that this >memory speed corresponds to a clock speed of 12.5 MHz. The point being the processor speed is only one of many aspects of a computers performance. Clock speed, processor, memory speed, CPU architecture, I/O systems, even the application program all contribute to the overall system performance. >>And roughly, the 68040 is twice as fast at a given clock >>speed as is the 68030. > >Numbers? Look them up yourself. -- Ray Fischer ""Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth ray@netcom.com than lies."" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ",4 "Re: Most recent U.N. members? # 179 Czech Republic # 180 Republic of Slovakia They were admitted early this year. Liechenstein was also recently admitted. Also San Marino. Both within the last 12 months. Incredible what passes for a nation-sta state nowadays. ",18 "CD-ROMS 4-SALE (NEW) UPDATE!!! I'm looking to find some people interested in getting some cd-rom's. Below is a list with their prices. If you are interested in any of these, send me some mail and I can guarantee this price. If you are not local their will be a shipping cost, and cod cost if you prefer it to be shipped that way. Marcus Updated prices from last post. American Business Phonebook DOS $20.00 Animals DOS $30.00 Animals MPC $18.00 Audoban Birds DOS $20.00 Audoban Mammals DOS $20.00 Barney Bear Goes to School DOS $30.00 Bible Library DOS $45.00 Bibles and Religion DOS $15.00 Book of Lists DOS $30.00 Britannicas Family Choice DOS $23.00 Britamrica Select DOS $24.33 Business & Economics DOS $19.00 Business Backgrounds DOS $20.00 Business Master DOS $20.00 Carmen San Diego (Where is ...) MPC $22.00 CD PLay/Launch DOS $25.00 CD ROM Software Jukebox DOS $20.00 CIA Vorld Taur DOS $35.00 Chess Master 3000 MPC DOS $20.00 CLassic Collection DOS $40.00 CLipert Goliath DOS $15.00 Colossal Cookbook DOS $15.00 DeLorme's Atlas USA WIN $25.00 Desert Storm MPC $25.00 Deathstar Arcade Battles DOS $15.00 Dictionaries & Language DOS $15.00 Education Master DOS $20.00 ELectronic Home Library DOS $35.00 Family Doctor DOS $16.00 Family Encyclopedia by Comptons DOS $49.00 Family Encyclopedia by Comptons MPC $49.00 Game Master DOS $15.00 Game Pack II DOS $25.00 Golden Immortal DOS $25.00 Great Cities of the World DOS $25.00 Greet Cities of the World MPC $30.00 Great Cities of the World II DOS $25.00 Great Cities of the World II MPC $30.00 Groliers Encyclopedia DOS $40.00 Groliers Encyclopedia MPC $40.00 Guiness Disc 1992 DOS $13.00 Ham Radio DOS $15.00 Information USA DOS $35.00 Islands Designs DOS $20.00 Jets & Props DOS $18.00 Jones ... Fast Lane DOS/MPS $17.00 KGB/CIA World Fact Book DOS $25.00 Kings Quest 5: DOS/MPC $20.00 Library of the Future DOS $90.00 Loom DOS $22.00 MPC Wizard MPC $15.00 MacMillan Kids Dictionary MPC $48.00 Magazine Rack DOS $25.00 Majestic Places DOS $20.00 Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing MPC $35.00 Mixed Up Mother Goose DOS/MPC $18.00 Money,Money,Money, DOS $20.00 Monkey Island DOS $22.00 Oak CD Stand DOS $15.00 Our Solar System DOS $15.00 Presidents DOS $85.00 Publish It v 3.0 DOS $20.00 Reference Library DOS $35.00 Secret Weapons/Luftwaffe MPC $22.00 Shereware Games DOS $35.00 Shereware Overload DOS $15.00 Sher Holmes/Consul Det MPC $35.00 Sleeping Beauty DOS $20.00 Strd. CD Software Bundle - 4 Titles N/A $90.00 Stellar 7 DOS/MPC $17.00 Story Time - Interactive DOS $14.00 The CD ROM Collection DOS $15.00 Time Magazine Almanac Current DOS $22.00 Time Table of Hist/Sci/Innovation DOS $25.00 Tons & Gigs DOS $49.00 Too Many Typefonts DOS $15.00 Total Baseball DOS $30.00 US Atlas/w Automap DOS $22.00 US History DOS $28.00 US/World Atlas DOS/MPC $18.00 US Wars:Civil War DOS $25.00 Wild Places DOS $20.00 Wing Com/Ultima VI DOS/MPC $22.00 World View DOS $25.00 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ E-Mail mkbaird@david.wheaton.edu -- mkbaird%david.bitnet@uunet.uu.net -- Voice 708-752-8847 - Internet 192.138.89.15 -- mkbaird%david@uunet.uu.net -- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ E-Mail mkbaird@david.wheaton.edu -- mkbaird%david.bitnet@uunet.uu.net -- Voice 708-752-8847 - Internet 192.138.89.15 -- mkbaird%david@uunet.uu.net ",6 "Re: Is car saftey important? In article <1993Apr20.163527.12773@bnr.ca> tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes: >Subject: Is car saftey important? > I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New >Car Guide. What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended' >under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a >driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed >in a front end collision. The most highly recommended small >car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small >cars listed. There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles >where you wouldn't survive an accident. Is it only me, or is >safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car? > Definitely! Safety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a small car like a Civic or whatever. Great = Safety + Handling + Speed - for me Seems to me that you would be more ""dead"" in a small car than a large car after an accident. - gerrit ",7 "Re: Legality of placebos? calzone@athena.mit.edu wrote: > > >How is it that placebos are legal? It would seem to me that if, as a patient, >you purchase a drug you've been prescribed and it's just sugar (or whatever), >there's a few legal complications that arise: > > 1. >If you have been diagnosed with a condition and you aren't given accepted >treatment for it, it seems like intentional medical malpractice. A placebo is an accepted treatment at times. > 2. >A placebo should fall, legally, under the label of quackery (why not?) Why should it? Placebos are effective under certain circumstances. That's why they're used. Actually, I don't know know anyone who has actually gotten a ""sugar pill"". I don't know how it could be done, since prescription drugs are always labeled, and it's easy enough to find out what's in a pill if you have the name. It's more common to prescribe a drug which is effective for something, just not for what you have. Antibiotics for viral infections are the most common such placebo. > 3. >Getting what you pay for. (Deceptive ""bait and switch"" to an extreme...). False >advertising (what if McDonalds didn't put 100% pure beef in their hamburgers?) I'm not sure what you mean by this. What do you think you're paying for? You're not entitled to a prescription drug just because you pay for a doctor's appointment. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jack Hamilton KD6TTL jfh@netcom.com PO Box 281107 SF, CA 94128 USA ",13 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Card In article <1993Apr19.203606.27625@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) says: > >In article <93108.172544U28037@uicvm.uic.edu> Jason Kratz > >>The point that I forgot to bring up here (and this has nothing to do with g >bein >>a gang member or not) is that it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in s >thi >>area (or in the state of illinois for that matter). > >Right - it nas nothing to do with whther or not the person >is/was a gang member, but that's what Kratz inferred.... > >Wrong - there are people who can legally carry concealed in IL and >there are circumstances under which MANY people can carry concealed. > >Is accuracy really too much to expect? > >-andy >-- No it's not. If you would have read my other post I was accurate. Here's what I said: [material from another post]-------------------------> The other point that I would like to make because I know it's true (looked this one up in the Illinois this is for you Andy-----> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ statutes before) is that it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in Illinois. ^^^^^^^^ <------ Also for you Andy. And then I went on to say: There is no such thing as a CCW for us ordinary folk here. [end of quoted material] Of course I forgot to mention who ""us ordinary folk"" are so just for Andy I'm going to go to the library tomorrow and photocopy the part of the Illinois statutes with this information and post it. Ordinary citizens CAN NOT get a license to carry a concealed weapon. There are very few people who can. I even asked my lawyer friend about this and he told me that only certain people can get licenses for concealed carry. He couldn't remember which people but he knew for sure that regular citizens couldn't get that type of license. He told me to go check at the library for the statutes which I did. I'll post that info tomorrow night. Until then....... Jason ",16 "Re: Cirrus Logic 5426 Graph Card In comp.os.ms-windows.misc, gardner_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (andy gardner) writes: In article <1qms3c$37t@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, wong@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Jung) writes: >Version 1.3 drivers are due to be release by Cirrus soon. >Unfortunately, their not available via FTP, you have to dial >up their BBS in the USA. I do this from NZ using a 14.4k modem >to cut down on phone bills. It took me around 7 minutes to >download the v1.2 driver. Could you please upload to any of the ftp sites (such as ftp.ciaca.indiana.edu) and announce it here? This will benefit people does not have access to their BBS in USA (like me :-))? Thanks a lot. - Beng Hang Tay ",2 "Re: How about a crash program in basic immunological research? In article <221@ky3b.UUCP>, km@ky3b.pgh.pa.us (Ken Mitchum) writes: > As a physician, I almost never get sick: usually, when something horrendous > is going around, I either don't get it at all or get a very mild case. > When I do get really sick, it is always something unusual. > > This was not the situation when I was in medical school, particularly on > pediatrics.... Pediatrics for me was three solid > months of illness, and I had a temp of 104 when I took the final exam! > > I think what happens is that during training, and beyond, we are constantly > exposed to new things, and we have the usual reactions to them, so that later > on, when challenged with something, it is more likely a re-exposure for us, > so we deal with it well and get a mild illness. This is also commonly seen in new teachers. The first few years, they're sick a lot, but gradually seem to build up immunities to almost everything common. Come to think of it, I was about my healthiest when I was working in a pathogens lab, exposed to who-knows-what all the time. Pre-OSHA, of course. Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI ",13 "Re: New Apple Ergo-Mouse In <5APR199312491648@utkvx.utk.edu> nwcs@utkvx.utk.edu (Schizophrenia means never being alone) writes: >Does anyone know how to open up the Apple Ergo-Mouse (ADB Mouse II)? Mine >lives near a cat (true, really...) and picks up her fur. From what I can tell, >it looks like Apple welded it shut. By rotating the plate around the mouse ball counter-clockwise you can open the mouse and clean it. It isn't as obvious as the Desktop Bus Mouse I but it opens quite easily once you see what has to be done. -Geoff -- geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business If you don't vote... you don't count. ",4 "CGA for windows 3.1 HI I`m looking for some assistance in locating information on how to run win 3.1 on a CGA monitor. The setup suggests you look at the manual, but the guy I`m helping is part of a large office and computer assistance must be booked in advance, therefore he cant get windows onto his CGA system. Thanx in anticipation NEIL ",5 "Re: Spreading Christianity (Re: Christian Extremist Kills Doctor) I addressed most of the key issues in this very long (284 lines) post by Dean Kaflowitz in two posts yesterday. The first was made into the title post of a new thread, ""Is Dean Kaflowitz terminally irony-impaired?"" and the second, more serious one appeared along the thread ""A Chaney Post, and a Challenge, reissued and revised"" both only in talk.abortion, but I am posting its contents into talk.religion.misc as soon as I exit here. This should be enough for us to thrash out for the next week or so. The second post really grapples with the main bones of contention between us. The first is more lighthearted and tells about such things as KaflowitzDebatingPoints [tm], which he continues to rack up on both talk.abortion and talk.religion.misc, while setting follow-ups to talk.abortion alone. His lame excuse for the latter policy is that he gets a prompt as to where to set follow-ups, and does not follow talk.religion.misc much; this suggests that he is being hypocritical in not also setting his Newsgroups line to talk.abortion alone. Peter Nyikos ",19 "Re: Identifying / Securing Files In article <2bb29f4c@mash.boulder.co.us: rmashlan%mash@csn.org (Robert Mashlan) writes: :tarnold@vnet.IBM.COM (Todd W. Arnold) said in article <19930322.101356.617@almaden.ibm.com>: :>It's OK as long as you trust the end-user to stay out of your application :>program - or as long as it runs in a system where the user can't get to it. :>Otherwise, you can't stop him from finding the ""load a module"" code in your :>program, and simply bypassing the check for a valid module. The devious user :>can either modify the object code before running the program, or he can run :>the program under a debugger and change the instructions in memory. :There is a way to foil debuggers, by clearing the single step :interrupt, on which a debugger depends, every few instructions in :the sensitive areas of the code. This assumes the person is using the hardware debug instruction of an X86 type processor. It can be negated by NOP'ing the clear debug instruction, or by running the code on a machine simulator, like one I wrote as a senior project in college. It can bypass and trace practically anything one could write in software. Kind of like being on a Star Trek Holideck :-). -- Kenneth Ng Please reply to ken@eies2.njit.edu for now. ""All this might be an elaborate simulation running in a little device sitting on someone's table"" -- J.L. Picard: ST:TNG ",11 "Borland C++ 3.1 w/App Frmwrks ** FORSALE ** Howdy All! I have recently converted to Microsoft Visual C++. I no longer want my Borland C++ 3.1 w/Application Frameworks product. This version is about 6 months old. I have all of the manuals, disks (5.25""), etc. It is licensed to me but I will transfer the license to the purchaser under the accepted terms of the Borland license agreement. I also have a copy of the books: ""Developing Windows Applications with Borland C++ 3"", James McCord, Sams (39.95) ""Using Borland C++ 3 2nd ed"", Mark & Lee Atkinson"", Que (29.95) I'd like to do is sell it all to the highest bidder under the conditions listed below. I'll ship C.O.D. to anywhere in the U.S. via the shipper of your choice (provided they are local to me), and I will pay the COD charges (you just pay for the shipping). The list price for the product is about $750. I have seen it advertised for as low as $500. I will accept the best offer over $375 (plus shipping as described above) which is 1/2 the list price, plus, I'm tossing in the 2 books listed above (which are a $70 value). I will hold the bidding open through the weekend and close it sometime in the evening of 4/26/93. Please reply via eMail. Only serious offers please apply. No, I will not consider anything for trade, nor any offers less then $375 as I consider it a fair price. Regards, Steve. /******************************************************************* * Steve Shapiro * All views and opinions expressed * * SKS Computer Consulting, Inc. * are my own and are offered as-is * ******************************************************************** * Steve.Shapiro@f440.n101.z1.fidonet.org BBS: (508) 664-6354 N81 * *******************************************************************/ ",6 "Re: Rewording the Second Amendment (ideas) dfo@vttoulu.tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes: >Nerve gas and mustard gas are well defined. Other poisonous >gasses should be individually banned only if it can be shown that there >is no use not related to weaponry. Licenses should be available for >research purposes on such chemicals. >I am not a lawyer, but these ideas could certainly be a basis for >definitions. I hope you realize how trivial it is to manufacture these compounds. Given about $10k in lab equipment and chemicals (which are commercially available) and given the knowledge that I have (graduating BS, Ch, 1993) I could synthesize enough of these compounds to make a serious dent in the population of several major US cities. As also noted, the knowledge is there for the production of nuclear weapons. It's not even that restricted. The only thing is the expense. Now I'm not going around making these things, but it's not 'cause of any law; I simply don't get any marginal benefit out of killing anyone. Any law you enact in this respect is only going to give you the ability to add a charge against someone who does make and use said weapons. In the case of chemical agents, I seriously doubt that you would even know that someone had set up a lab until after the weapons had been used. Part of the trouble with the chemical-weapons ban treaty between the US and the USSR is that many of the precursors to chemical weapons such as GB and Sarin, etc., is that they have very valid commercial uses, and it is very easy to divert those precursors to chemical weapons manufacture without anyone knowing about it. >>< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > >>< ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > >-- >doug foxvog >douglas.foxvog@vtt.fi aaron arc@cco.caltech.edu ",16 "Coil Hey everyone, I'm new to this newsgroup so please excuse me if this is a dumb question....I want to build a crossover for my stereo and I need a coil with an inductance of 6.8mH (actually I need 4). I was wondering if anyone knew where I could buy these or how to make these. I've called many places and no one I can find sells them. If you have the answers just E - mail me.... Thanks in advance.... Chris ",12 "IBM-PC XT switch settings I just got an IBM-PC XT with no documents. Its a true IBM, and I was wondering if anyone had the definitions of the 2 8 position dip switches? - thankx Jim ",12 "Re: Israeli Terrorism m.z.magil writes: >It surprises me that this ""story"" has not yet made it to >the front pages of the major newspapers (which love to make the State of >Israel look as evil as humanly possible)! Such a story would be ""eaten up"" >by some of the papers over here. So please explain to me why I have never >seen nor heard of it before! - Believe me, I'm not expecting a reply because >we both know where the story came from... YOUR DREAMS!!!! i would like to remind my jewish colleague mzm that much of the stories of the holocaust (including the ones in the u.s. holocaust memorial museum) were *not* eaten up by some of the papers. we just have to wait to build muesums for it.. -- ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________ (______ _ | _ |_ _____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | | foo i.e. most foo ",17 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? In article <1qvfik$6rf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: >Now that Big Brother has rubbed out one minority religion in Waco, who is >next? The Mormons or Jews? The Koreshians rubbed themselves out. Neither Mormons nor Jews have a propensity for dousing themselves with kerosene, so I'm not particularly concerned. (Or shall we blame Jim Jones on the government also?) Be thankful that the BATF standoff at least got some of the kids out before the cult committed mass suicide. Followups out of soc.culture.jewish. -- ted frank | thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | I'm sorry, the card says ""Moops."" the u of c law school | standard disclaimers | ",16 "Re: vangus nerve (vagus nerve) In article <52223@seismo.CSS.GOV> bwb@seismo.CSS.GOV (Brian W. Barker) writes: >mostly right. Is there a connection between vomiting >and fainting that has something to do with the vagus nerve? > Stimulation of the vagus nerve slows the heart and drops the blood pressure. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gordon Banks N3JXP | ""Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon."" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",13 "How to fix Word subscript spacing? Hi, I have a problem when using subscripts with MSWord. The problem is the subscripted characters get cut off on the display, but print out ok. Anyone know how to fix the subscripts so I can see them on the screen? Many thanks, -- -Howard _________________________________________________________ ! Howard Moy ! ! (608) 255-6379 ! ",2 "Re: What if the Dividians were black? As quoted from <1993Apr5.172734.8744@icd.ab.com> by kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead): > oleary@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (brian.m.leary) writes: > > > Questions for the media and the politically correct: > > > > Try asking people who don't understand why anyone would worry about > > the tactics used against the ""child molesting, drug dealing, gun running, > > cop killing religious wackos in Waco"" (1) these questions: > > > > If the people in the compound were black and the guys in ninja suits > > charging in with assault weapons and grenades were LAPD > > what would you think? > > > The charges are essentially the same they used against Operation MOVE > in Philadelphia a few years back, where the cops dropped an incendiary > bomb on the roof of a tenement and burned down a whole block. > > MOVE was a black group. There were some significant differences. Whereas the Branch Davidians are reported to have gotten along rather well with their neighbors, the MOVE people are generally conceded to have gone far out of the way to antagonize their BLACK neighbors, using loudspeakers to all hours of the night, keeping large piles of garbage, promoting rat and insect infestation, and allegedly threatening to kidnap their neighbors' children. Still the same sort of questions regarding use of force remain in that case. -- =================================================================== ""You're like a bunch of over-educated, New York jewish ACLU lawyers fighting to eliminate school prayer from the public schools in Arkansas"" - Holly Silva ",16 "Re: Soviet Space Book What in blazes is going on with Wayne Matson and gang down in Alabama? I also heard an unconfirmed rumor that Aerospace Ambassadors have disappeared. Can anyone else confirm?? ++Rob Landis STScI, Baltimore, MD ",14 "WANTED: HP28 calculator Hello, I am looking for a HP28s or HP28sx calculator. If anyone has one they are getting rid of please let me know. reply to jmparkin@mtu.edu thanks, Jeremy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Jeremy Parkinson aka SLIMY | ""I'd give my right arm to be ambitexterous."" | jmparkin@mtu.edu | UNKNOWN ",6 "Re: Krillean Photography In article <1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org> gpivar@mitre.org(The Pancake Emporium) writes: >In article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes: >|> todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes: >|> >|> >I think that's the correct spelling.. >|> > I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow >|> >do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking >|> >that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for >|> >sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly >|> >appreciated. >|> >|> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in >|> the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps. >|> >|> Bill from oz >|> > > >Bill, >No flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian >photography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple, >it takes pictures of your aura. >|> > >-- >Greg > You're confused. You are talking about KIRILIAN photography. Bill is talking KRILLEAN photography. -- | tad@ssc.com (if it bounces, use 3288544@mcimail.com) | | Tad Cook | Packet Amateur Radio: | Home Phone: | | Seattle, WA | KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA | 206-527-4089 | ",13 "Re: 8x oversampling CD player mcmahan@netcom.com (Dave Mc Mahan) writes: > In a previous article, kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes: >>In article hcb@netcom.com (H. C. Bowman) writes: >>> >>>I just bought a new portable CD player for the office, and I notice that >>>it proudly proclaims ""8 TIMES OVERSAMPLING"" on the box. Now while I think >>>I understand what oversampling is (the rate of discrete ""samples"" >>>exceeds the highest frequency component of interest by some factor), >>>I don't understand this ""8 TIMES"" business... It seems to me that when >>>I bought my first CD player (was it REALLY 10 years ago?!), the specs >>>said ""4 TIMES"" ... Could someone please tell me whether I'm getting >>>senile? If I'm not, then what good does it do for the player to take >>>samples at a higher rate? >>The data is only ever read once (barring mistracks and such, of course), >>and eventually gets turned into 44.1 KHz, 16 bit, two channel data. >>Oversampling takes two discrete data points, and interpolates n-1 points >>between them for n times oversampling. When I asked, people said that the >>interpolation was not simply linear interpolation, but significantly more >>complicated. >You are quite correct in your understanding. The filtering is not >interpolation, as that would distort the frequency content of the signal They do interpolate - it's not linear interpolation though. You are correct that the frequency content is not altered (more specifically, the baseband spectrum is preserved, and so is every Nth image spectrum. The other (N-1) in N image spectra are removed, where N is the oversampling rate) >you are listening to. Generally, these players run the samples thru an >all-pass filter network. I have done this for ECG waveforms from a person's Ideally the filter has a gain of 1 from 0Hz to 22050Hz, and a gain of 0 from 22050 to the new Nyquist frequency. In practice a finite transition band is required, and there is also a certain amount of pass-band ripple and stop-band leakage. With a high order (eg 200 taps) digital filter, a very good approximation can be easily achieved. <<< BIT DELETED ABOUT OBSERVATIONS OF INTERPOLATION FILTER AT WORK >>> >In case you care, the filtering method uses an FIR (finite impulse response) >filter. I'd guess that CD makers use the same kind of method. Anybody out >there know the real answer? I'd say that they use a tapped delay line with >resistor/op-amp weighting to accomplish the filtering. This strikes me as >the most cost effective method for volume production runs. No, they actually use a digital FIR just like yours, but built in hardware, on custom VLSI chips for (mainly) economic reasons. >>Anyway, then, the purpose of oversampling is to move the ""effective"" >>sampling rate up to n times 44.1 KHz, in order to use higher frequency >>antialiasing filters. For the same quality filter, higher oversampling >>lets you build cheaper filters, whereas for the same price filter, higher >>oversamplings lets you build better filters. So, assuming the quality of >>all other components in a CD player remained the same, oversampling should >>allow a manufacturer to produce _slightly_ better sound due to anti-alias >>filtering. >Actually, I think the only reason they do this is so that they can say that >they have a marketting gimic. I would guess that it is acutally cheaper to >filter an oversampled signal than not. You can use sloppier components and >give the filter a roll-off that isn't so sharp. It's too bad that they >charge more for something that (I think) is actually less costly to build. I guess that the answer is somewhere between the two. As an interesting (?) aside, some of you out there may be aware of a scheme used by Pioneer and Wadia, which is called (by Pioneer, at least) Legato Link. I haven't heard one of these players, but by reading advertising blurb, and a couple of pseudo-technical articles I deduced that all they do is build a lousy digital oversampling filter, and let a load of the first image (ie aliassed) spectrum through. Talking to Bob Stuart (of Boothroyd Stuart, aka Meridian) confirmed my suspicion. He said that it sounded awful, but then he would, wouldn't he... Christopher -- ============================================================================== Christopher Hicks | Paradise is a Linear Gaussian World cmh@uk.ac.cam.eng | (also reported to taste hot and sweaty) ============================================================================== ",12 "The easy way out.... Easy vs. Hard .....Easy on who? I had a rare very personal talk with my mother last year. She said that when she and my father were raising we four children, they did not try to raise us in this world as strictly as they were raised in their Norwegian Lutheran community. They felt that we would be alienated from them and it would create problems. In other words, my parent did the very tolerant, loving thing. They raised us without conflict, without what we saw as unreasonable demands and were always accepting, no matter what the circumstances. What happened was that I grew up believing in situation ethics and never absolutes. I believed in a loving God, and my concept of God never involved justice or punishment, nor was there any concept that I may someday be held responsible for the things that offended Him...sins that the ""world"" told me were OK. My parents are very good, honest and moral people. They raised four extremely honest children. Yet, before coming to a more complete knowledge of God (which includes the knowledge of justice and punishment)I committed what I now believe to be many, many grave sins. I lived with a partner outside of marriage, was married and divorced ( only after physical abuse and no apparent hope for change...but I shouldn't have married to person in the first place ) and more.... My parents felt they were doing the loving,kind thing by allowing us to be who we were, by not imposing their standards on us, and by accepting unquestioningly everything we did without judgement or counsel. Today, it is absolutely appalling for me to look back on what they *did* accept without a word. It takes courages to dare to help souls because you must speak up and say what is unpopular and difficult and what people do not want to hear. You must be able to say what is hard, and say it as Christ would, with love and compassion. It involves risk....perhaps someone you love may not want to hear and will stay away from you. This life is ""but dust"". As long as the comfort of this life is our highest priority, we will fail God and fail those with whom we come in contact. I wonder how many who engage in sex outside of marriage, who support the ""right"" to abortion, who engage in homosexuality, or who commit any of the range of sins that are plentiful in this time have ever heard from a quiet, thoughtful, loving friend that these things are *wrong*. No one ever told me that what I was doing was wrong, and I saw multitudes around me living the same way I was and they seemed like good, decent people. (wouldn't kick dogs or beat the elderly or babies..) It is more difficult for sinners without a genuine prayer life to hear the Holy Spirit than it is to hear a loving friend. Think about this the next time the Holy Spirit tells you that a friend is in error, but you don't want to ""cause trouble"". Righteous prayers is great power, but don't forget that we are we are Christ's lips and hands on earth. Don't be afraid to simply voice Truth when the situation calls for it. Say a fervent prayer and ask the Holy Spirit for Love and guidance. In more ways than we may realize, we *are* our brother's keeper. In Jesus and Mary, Elizabeth ",15 "Re: Americans and Evolution On Tue, 20 Apr 1993 04:49:18 GMT bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) wrote: >Robert Singleton (bobs@thnext.mit.edu) wrote: >: > Sure it isn't mutually exclusive, but it lends weight to (i.e. increases >: > notional running estimates of the posterior probability of) the >: > atheist's pitch in the partition, and thus necessarily reduces the same >: > quantity in the theist's pitch. This is because the `divine component' >: > falls prey to Ockham's Razor, the phenomenon being satisfactorily >: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >: > explained without it, and there being no independent evidence of any >: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >: > such component. More detail in the next post. >: > >Occam's Razor is not a law of nature, it is way of analyzing an >argument, even so, it interesting how often it's cited here and to >what end. >It seems odd that religion is simultaneously condemned as being >primitive, simple-minded and unscientific, anti-intellectual and >childish, and yet again condemned as being too complex (Occam's >razor), the scientific explanation of things being much more >straightforeward and, apparently, simpler. Cute characterization Bill; however, there is no inconsistency between the two statements. Even if one believes that religion is ""primitive, simple-minded and unscientific, anti-intellectual and childish"", one can still hold the view that religion also adds an unnecessary level of complexity to the explanation. The ideas themselves don't have to be complex before being excised by Occam's Razor, they only have to add unnecessarily to the overall complexity of the description. > Which is it to be - which >is the ""non-essential"", and how do you know? I think the non-essential part of an explanatory system is one that adds no predictive capability to the system. >Considering that even scientists don't fully comprehend science due to >its complexity and diversity. Maybe William of Occam has performed a >lobotomy, kept the frontal lobe and thrown everything else away ... Huh? >This is all very confusing, I'm sure one of you will straighten me out >tough. ^^^^^ Watch it, your Freudian Slip is showing -- Mike McAngus | The Truth is still the Truth mam@mouse.cmhnet.org | Even if you choose to ignore it. | (Some of the old .sig viruses are still the best) ",0 "Re: Barbecued foods and health risk In article , SFEGUS@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu wrote: > In article <79857@cup.portal.com> > mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes: > >An odd exception to the rule seems to be the product known as ""gumbo file'"". > >This is nothing more than coarsely ground dried sassafras leaves. This > >is not only a natural product, but a natural product still in its natural > >form, so maybe that's how they evade Delany. Or maybe a special exemption > >was made, to appease powerful Louisiana Democrats. One possible reason is that file' is made with sassafras leaves, while root beer was made with sassafras bark or root bark. The leaves contain either no or less saffrole than the bark. There is also some sort of treatment which putatively removes saffrole from sassafras products. I have some concentrated sassafras tea extract which is claimed to have the saffrole removed. > I think what we have to keep in mind is that even though it may be illegal to > commercially produce/sell food with carcinogenic substances, it is not illegal > for people to do such to their own food (smoking, etc). Is this true? Well, the last time that I went to the store to buy sassafras bark to make root beer, there was a sign saying that it wasn't sold for human consumption. Also, when I asked the person if they had wild cherry bark and wintergreen bark, she made a point of telling me that I couldn't buy sassafras for human consumption. I find the fact that some people reckless enough to step into an automobile live in fear of dropping dead because of a pork rib quite funny, in a sick way. Eric Pepke INTERNET: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET: pepke@fsu Florida State University SPAN: scri::pepke Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 BITNET: pepke@fsu Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions. Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers. ",13 "identify this HD .. actually from Alistair Scott afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au I have come across a old external hard disk and I can't find any specs for it anywhere... It is made by NEC (yes I tried tech support.... no help), and it has a model number APC-H27C and is labelled ""Expansion Hard Disk"" Can anyone help me out with figuring out what this beast is. The external connector looks like a scsi plug, and the date on the drive chassis is 1984... os it's pretty old. I just want to see what it is, before I deep six it or rip it apart for bits. thanks Alistair afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au ",3 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1r59na$e81@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: >In article <1993Apr21.141259.12012@st-andrews.ac.uk>, nrp@st-andrews.ac.uk (Norman R. Paterson) writes: >|> In article <1r2m21$8mo@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: ... >> Ok, so you don't claim to have an absolute moral system. Do you claim >> to have an objective one? I'll assume your answer is ""yes,"" apologies >> if not. > >I've just spent two solid months arguing that no such thing as an >objective moral system exists. > >jon. Apologies, I've not been paying attention. -Norman ",19 "Typewriter w/computer interface I have the following item for sale: Electronic Typewriter: Panasonic KT-32, with 22K memory, small LCD display. I'm selling it bundled with a Panasonic computer interface (RPK105) for this typewriter. You can connect it to any PC parallel port (sorry, no cable). It works perfect, even in Windows (TTY printer). It's great if you need to send letter with ""typewriter look"". In stand-alone mode it has 3 pitches, and several ""effects"" like underline, bold, overstrike. Built-in dictionary and character/word/ line correction. Asking $150 for both the typewriter and the interface ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jorge Lach Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation Jorge.Lach@East.Sun.Com East Coast Division, Chelmsford, MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",6 "Help. Info: CLARITIN (Allergies) My doc handed me 10mg samples of CLARITIN (brand of Ioratadine Tablet from Schering Corp.) I tried to find it in the PDR to no avail. I do remember she mentioned this drug was relatively new to the US but available overseas for quite some time. Looking mostly for side-effect, contraindications, and mode of action such that it differs from Seldane and Hismanal. Email or newsgroup is fine. Thanx in advance. -- Steve Giammarco/5330 Peterson Lane/Dallas TX 75240 marco@sdf.lonestar.org loveyameanit. ",13 "Re: IDE vs SCSI In article ez033672@rocky.ucdavis.edu (The Great Randalli!) writes: > Can anyone explain in fairly simple terms why, if I get OS/2, I might > need an SCSI controler rather than an IDE. Will performance suffer that > much? For a 200MB or so drive? If I don't have a tape drive or CD-ROM? > Any help would be appreciated. > > Richard Randall -- There is a way in which a multi-tasking computer actually gives you more CPU power then you had before, and that is with I/O overlap. With I/O overlap, your CPU can continue to ""think"" while disk operations are underway, whereas without overlap, your CPU sits idly waiting for each disk operation to finish - and disk operations take an *eternity*, compared to a fast CPU. So, when you've got multi-tasking, you want to increase performance by increasing the amount of overlapping you do. One way is with DMA or bus mastering. Either of these make it possible for I/O devices to move their data into and out of memory without interrupting the CPU. The alternative is for the CPU to move the data. There are several SCSI interface cards that allow DMA and bus mastering. IDE, however, is defined by the standard AT interface created for the IBM PC AT, which requires the CPU to move all the data bytes, with no DMA. -- Richard Krehbiel richk@grebyn.com OS/2 2.0 will do for me until AmigaDOS for the 386 comes along... ",3 "Re: Secret algorithm [Re: Clipper Chip and crypto key-escrow] brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton): }And yes, this has to be a public key system or it would be almost }impossible to handle. It might not be RSA, but that does not mean }that PKP doesn't get paid. Until 1997, PKP has the patent on the }general concept of public key encryption, as well as the particular }implementation known as RSA. Hmm, my first thought was that they're using Diffie-Hellman exponential session key exchange, or an equivalent. However, the Diffie-Hellman patent, like the Hellman-Merkle one on public key systems, claims all equivalents, so the basic point stands. Interestingly, a quote from Jim Bidzos showed up in the media real soon after the announcement, and he sounded very pissed. Maybe he hadn't yet realized that PKP might have just struck gold? All they have to do is get someone to admit the general scheme that the Clipper uses. --- Jef Jef Poskanzer jef@netcom.com jef@well.sf.ca.us ""An object never serves the same function as its image - or its name."" -- Rene Magritte ",11 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <30136@ursa.bear.com> halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes: >Atoms are not objective. They aren't even real. What scientists call >an atom is nothing more than a mathematical model that describes >certain physical, observable properties of our surroundings. All >of which is subjective. > >-jim halat This deserves framing. It really does. ""[Atoms] aren't even real."" Tell me then, those atoms we have seen with electron microscopes are atoms now, so what are they? Figments of our imaginations? The evidence that atoms are real is overwhelming, but I won't bother with most evidence at the moment. -- *************************************************************************** * mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu * Never program and drink beer at the same * * M^2 * time. It doesn't work. * *************************************************************************** ",19 "Re: about Eliz C Prophet In article JEK@cu.nih.gov writes: >Rob Butera asks about a book called THE LOST YEARS OF JESUS, by >Elizabeth Clare Prophet. > ... >marriage, if I remember aright), base almost all their teachings on >messages they have allegedly received by telepathy from Tibet. I >should be surprised if the book you mention has any scholarly basis. Actually, there was very little to the book. First of all looking at the titles of her other books, I would personally consider her to be engaged in a bizarre form of Christian-like mysticism heavily influenced by eastern philosphies (great titles like _The_Astrology_of_the_4_Horsemen_). However, other than the Chapter One into, there's nothing original, biased, or even new this book. It is basically a collection of previously published works by those who claim that there exist Buddhist and Hindu stories that Christ visited India and China (he was known as Issa) during the period from late teens to age 30. Conclusion: the book actually lets you come to your own view by presenting a summary of various published works and letters, all of which you could verify independently. It includes refutations to such works as well. Therefore, even if you think she is theologically warped, this book is a nice reference summary for the interested. -- Rob Butera | ECE Grad Student | ""Only sick music makes money today"" Rice University | Houston, TX 77054 | - Nietzsche, 1888 ",15 "Re: What is Zero dB???? marrevola@rediris.es wrote: : In article <1993Apr6.132429.16154@bnr.ca>, moffatt@bnr.ca (John Thomson) writes: : > Joseph Chiu (josephc@cco.caltech.edu) wrote: : > : > : And the measure of current, Amp, is actually named after both the AMP company : > : and the Amphenol company. Both companies revolutionized electronics by : > : simulatenously realizing that the performance of connectors and sockets : > : were affected by the amount of current running through the wires. : > : > Sorry. The unit for current is the AMPERE which is the name of a french-man : > named AMPERE who studied electrical current. The term AMP is just an abbreviation : > of it. The company AMP came after the AMPERE unit was already in use. : > : > : The Ohmite company was the first to characterize resistances by numbers, thus : > : our use of the Ohms... : > : > I don't know about this one, but it doesn't sound right. : Are you (two) joking? : Is the entire Internet flaming you (two)? : Ahh!, now I remember that Ohmite company was the first introducing ""the pink : colored resistor"", only for electronics working females ;-) : -- : Manuel Arrevola Velasco ||||| True e-mail: manolo@taf.fundesco.es ||||| : DoD #1033 : Yes, I have taken a bit of flame on this one. I must've been half asleep when I posted a response to Joseph. Greggo. ----- Greg Moffatt moffatt@bnr.ca Bell-Northern Research Inc., Ottawa Canada ""My opinions; not BNR's"" ",12 "Windows NT: Help needed with IO error 0x0069 Hi everybody out there, I just got the third beta release disk (march 93) of WindowsNT and still am not able to boot up that system. The final step achieved is the display of IO-error 0x0069. But, since this is the beta release of the SDK for NT and not of NT, Microsoft does not include a manual on the OS itself, explaining what this error means of what I can do to get rid of. My configuration is: Mainboard Hauppauge 4860-25, rev. A7 (a 486 with socket for i860) 28megs of memory (512k*36,1M*36,2M*36) AMI EISA SCSI controller (15series), latest bios, 16MB cache ST41200N hard disk Syquest 555 removable disk Toshiba 3301 CD ROM drive ProAudio Spectrum Plus 16 Longshine Ethernet card LCS8634 (NE2000 comp.) ET4000 graphics card, 1Meg (ColorImage5) The system is running fine under DOS and Windows 3.1 etc, but trying to do the setup for NT, - automatic setup does not recognize controller (AHA1542-compat.) when adding manually, NT complains not finging any CD-ROM drive - the manual setup (WINNT) does not copy everything from CD to HD, does not recognize controller, but takes it manually. Setup continues until it tries to boot. Then it starts loading several stuff from disk (seems to fing the HD), but messing up with that damned IO-Error 69. I took away all IO cards not essential, but that did not make any effect. Anybody got any ideas? Help would be greatly appreciated. Michael Linder mlinder@tonet1.physik.tu-berlin.de Institute of Optics Tech. Univ. Berlin, Germany ",2 "Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx? In <1993Apr23.132214.6755@cs.tulane.edu> finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil writes: >In article >eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes: >> >>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines.. :-) >> >> >>eliot >Wouldn't that make them an I4? Or would they >really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as >""underscore 4"")? horizontally opposed 4. or 'boxer' great idea, actually.. smooth running; low center of gravity.. also used in some honda gullwings, corvairs, porsches (others?) ... >Kenneth >finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil -- /-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\ | |\/| __ -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet | * | |/\|| 'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of * | frogs, iguanas, and other herps. | ",7 "Make your own talking elevators ! Complete standalone system (no computer required) for burning sound files into EPROMs - consists of : Apollo Eprom programmer (designed specifically for this job - wont do anything else) Microphone Logical Devices Eprom eraser (to wipe the mistakes) Brand New - $230 + freight ",6 "Re: Utility for updating Win.ini and system.ini sp@odin.fna.no (Svein Pedersen) writes: : Sorry, I did`nt tell exactly what I need. : : I need a utility for automatic updating (deleting, adding, changing) of *.ini files for Windows. : The program should run from Dos batchfile or the program run a script under Windows. : : I will use the utility for updating the win.ini (and other files) on meny PC`s. : : Do I find it on any FTP host? : : Svein Well, in the latest Windows magazine, there is an advertisement for a program that will help you uninstall windows apps from your harddisk (Uninstaller) but it can be used to update a network, but only for deleting, not adding or changing their *.ini files. (Uninstaller, by MicroHelp Inc. $79 1-800-922-3383) I am also looking for an *.ini updater for my PC network, and so far without any luck. So for the time being I have been pushing DOS and it's batch language to its limit...look into DOS 5.0's (I am assumming that DOS 6.0 has the same command, maybe even more..or less..improved) REPLACE command. I use this to update our users personal files with a master set in a batch file that is run everytime they invoke Windows. This basically overwrites their color schemes, but does what I need it to do. Not neat, but does the job...I'm looking for a better solution though. Mike Just relaying what I know...a not for profit service. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Mike Bendtsen (msbendts @ mtu.edu) 740 Elm St. Apt#4 CCLI Senior Technical Consultant Hancock, MI 49930 Michigan Technological University ",2 "Mary and Idols I have been studying the Bible now for about a year. I love it, but I am not very familiar with the different denominations, or traditions, or common beliefs of various christian groups. I have heard various people (outside this news group) describe *idols* such as power, money, material possessions etc. These things are worshiped in some sense I suppose, but I never really gave idols much thought. Until now... I have been reading the postings in this news group (which I just found a few days ago), and I have a question... First, I'm not trying to question anyone's belief or try to push my views on anyone else (I haven't been at this long enough to have any views other than I cannot get to heaven by being good, I must understand that Christ bore my sins on the cross so that I could be saved and I need to repent, i.e. realize that every time I sin, I might as well stick a sharp stick in Christ's side because He took the punishment for my sins, when He died on the cross). In my studies, Mary never really comes up. I know who she is, but that's about it. It seems to me that a statue of Mary could be considered an idol? Do people pray to statues of Mary? It sounds like educated christians (more educated than myself I'm sure) believe Mary was sinless? Wow... I hoped to spend the summer convincing myself (one way or the other) about Tongues (I'm reading ""Charismatic Chaos""). I guess I'll study Tongues in parallel with reading this news group. Any help you can give me will be appreciated. ------------------------------------------- [I don't think the issue is so much that people are more educated than you (though it may well be that they are), as that they come from a different tradition than yours. This is a discussion between Catholics and Protestants. Catholics generally believe that Mary was sinless. Protestants do not. The issue comes down to different sources of authority. Protestants generally limit themselves to the Bible as a source of doctrine. Since this isn't in the Bible (except in passages that no one would understand in this way if they didn't already believe it), Protestants don't accept it. Catholics see continuing revelation through the Church, though they believe the results are consistent with the Bible. I interpret your posting, not as a call for yet another argument about whether the Catholic Marian devotions are idolatry (an argument I am not prepared to see newed here), but as a sign of being interested in learning about traditions other than your own. Catholics are of course a major one, but by no means the only one. I generally consider the major traditions to be Catholic, Orthodox, and various subsets of Protestantism. Within Protestantism, it's a matter of how finely you want to cut things. These days I think the major division is between those who accept Biblical inerrancy and those who don't. There are also a number of major historical traditions, but in recent decades distinctions are tending to blur. I'd identify the major Protestant traditions as: Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican (they're sort of halfway between Catholic and Protestant), Wesleyan, Baptist, Holiness, Pentecostal, Church of Christ But there are a number of others. Historical distinctions tend not to be so important among the liberal churches anymore, and I think current trends in society and the Church are also tending to make conservatives seen themselves as allies from a general ""evangelical"" perspective. But differences among these various traditions are still quite marked. I think the best introduction to these issues is to read a good book on church history. Anyone who wants to understand the church really needs to understand how we got where we are now. A church history will normally show you where each of these traditions came from, and give a feeling for their nature. Unfortunately I'm away from my library at the moment, so I don't have anything specific to recommend. --clh] ",15 "Genoa graphics board Drivers FTP site! Hi, well I have opened up a FTP site for getting the latest software drivers for Genoa graphics cards. Here is how to access it: ftp 192.109.42.11 login:ftp password:ftp cd pub/genoa ls -l binary prompt hash (now if you wanna have the latest drivers for the 7900 board) cd 7000series mget * quit This is the sequence to get the drivers. If you have any further question, please email me. Best regards, Stefan Hartmann email to: harti@mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de ",1 "Winword grammer checker saved my liff! 1. Fire up Microsoft Word for Windows (version 2.0c) 2. Type the following paragraph: If you want to rite really very dead good, you just cant live. Without one of the wonderfully write aids, what you're can get what helps me impress me boss. 3. Under Tools|Options|Grammar select ""Use grammar and style rules strictly (all rules) and click OK. 4. Run the grammar checker (this also does a spelling check). No complaints. Readability: Passive Sentences: 0% Flesch Reading Ease: 84.5 Flesch Grade Level: 6.6 Flesch-Kincaid: 5.2 Gunning Fog Index: 8.7 __ TL (Someone buy Malcolm Bacchus some beer please.) ",2 "Re: SVGA Monitors and Centris (the real story) What is the real story here? Can I hook up any PC SVGA Montitor to the Centris internal video? Do I need to make my own cable if it doesn't not come with one? Has apple released a Tech note with the pinouts for doing such? The reasoj I ask is that it seems the prices for SVGA are lower than that of their mac counterparts... --mike ************************** having been discusse essentially adnausium the answer is yes. at least for the 600x400 configuration. you can get an adaptor called Mac VGA -Q from James engineering (510) 525 7350 and this will let you display 600x400 and 800x600 if the monitor is capable. I think the 800x600 requires 56Khz horizontal sync. I use this on my sony 1604. (gives a slightly wider screen than the 832x624 adaptor. hope it helps -A. ",4 "Subscription Please subscribe me to this mailing list Michael D. Grapevine | One of these days, USN SWC | One of these days, Code 4G33 | POW! grape@suned1.nswses.navy.mil | It's gonna happen, Bus: (805) 982-7791 | and I won't even realize it. ",5 "Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance?? In rec.autos, mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes: xIf you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your xtires rebalanced?? x xJohn Mas x xE-Mail Address :: MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM Since the wheel/tire is balanced off the car i.e. the lugnuts are not normally involved, how would they do that? I would think that since the lugs are so close to the center of rotation any slight difference in weight between a normal lugnut and a locking one would not have any noticable effect on the balance. I could be wrong, it *is* Friday afternoon. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mack Costello Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1) David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC ___/-\____ Bethesda, MD 20084-5000 Phone (301) 227-2431 (__________>| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",7 "Re: THE POPE IS JEWISH! In article <1993Apr15.180024.19308@wam.umd.edu> west@next02cville.wam.umd.edu (Stilgar) writes: +Last night, while watching the 2a.m. rebroadcast of Jerry Springer (a +talk show) I heard this Jewel of a thought from a 12 year old racist. +The focus of this show was on these kids and their hatred for the Jewish +religion, and why. [some stuff deleted] +Interesting (and scary) no? They went on to say how the Jews had +killed their god, and how in the end of time that all the races would +go to their homelands (of course, they would remain in America, which +is New Jeruselem, as it says in Gen 2??? (what another kid said) but +the rest of the races would go home) and then the great battle or plague +or whatever Revel. says would happen, and the jews would be killed. + +The most interesting thing about this was that my roomate is Catholic, +and had the KJV of the Bible on his desk. He immediatly opened it up +and began to search for the quoted passages (Gen, Rev, and John) to +look for himself, and couldn't find what they said they saw. I don't +know I saw this show a while back, and when I heard these kids quote the Bible to justify their racist claims, I looked up that quote about Jesus hating Jews (since Jesus himself was a Jew, my curiousity had been piqued by such a claim). The jist of the passage (and I am sorry but I can't recall which passage it was exactly) was that Jesus was condemning the Pharisees for being corrupt. Of course, the Pharisees were Jewish too, but it wasn't Jews as a whole that Jesus was condemning, just the powers that be. -- Nancy O'Connor + Psychology undergrad + The opinions I express Simon Fraser University, + are my own. Burnaby, B.C. + CANADA + ",0 "Re: Non-lethal alternatives to handguns? In article <1993Apr13.221936.28301@watson.ibm.com> mjp@vnet.ibm.com (Michael J. Phelps) writes: > >In article , shepard@netcom.com (Mark Shepard) >writes: >|> How effective are personal defense products like mace, pepper-spray, >|> tasers and other non-lethal ""stun"" devices compared to handguns? >|> Any statistics on #'s and types in use? >|> >|> These products seem very attractive compared to handguns >|> because, being non-lethal, they are more ""forgiving"" of accident or >|> mistakes/wrongful shooting (such as the Yoshi Hattori case), and >|> allow the justice system to deal with the criminal (rather than >|> criminals simply being _dead_, which has a certain ""vigilante feel"" >|> which seems to bother anti-gun people). > >The ""more forgiving"" nature also has its down side; it allows a criminal >to use them w/o the ADW [assault with a deadly weapon] charge. They also >can have lethal or dangerous side effects - > - some people have violent reactions to mace/pepper sprays > - stun guns can harm people with weak hearts > - people have suffered eye damage from mace; the stuff that is available > now is less concentrated than it used to be. > - some of the spray propellents are flammable > >|> >|> The arguments I see _against_ these non-lethal weapons compared to >|> handguns are lack of range, lack of ""stopping power"" or effectiveness, >|> and limited ""ammo"". True? How about cost? > >Sprays > >- using any of the spray based [eg mace, pepper] indoors is bound to > affect anyone else in the room (like the victim) due to the nature > of the stuff. > >- using the sprays outdoors in any sort of breeze mitigates its > effectiveness. > >- from reading various articles, it appears that mace, especially the > mace available to citizens, is pretty ineffective on people under > the influence of drugs or alcohol. > >- pepper spray appears to be more effective, but has the inherent spray > delivery problem. It still does not appear to be anything better than > a distraction that might buy you time to run like hell [if you can]. > >Consider that running like hell isn't always a viable solution. For >example, if you are dressed in boots and the assailent is dressed in >sneakers .. you might have a tough time outrunning them! > >Tasars and Stun Guns > >- require contact with skin for max effectiveness; a jacket [like a > leather one] will mitigate its effectiveness > >- the user must be extremely close to the assailent; that puts them > at a considerable risk of injury. > >- the user must keep the stun gun in contact with the assailent for some > non negligible period of time. > >- tasar darts can be pulled out. > >Consider the problem a small women would have keeping a stun gun in >contact with a average size man for any length of time w/o sustaining >serious injury. > >|> >|> Have any anti-gun groups suggested non-lethal weapons, to counter >|> the pro-gun argument that people will be left defenseless? > >I haven't heard of any. Generally they contend that people don't >need to [or aren't able] to defend themselves. > >|> >|> And, what legal restrictions/licensing apply to non-lethal devices? > >Civilian ownership of stun guns is frequently illegal [NY]. The sprays >are also illegal in some states. Believe it or not, they are still >illegal in NY, although about half the state thinks they are legal! >[I believe that NY almost legalized them; i have heard that the reason >they didn't was due to their ineffectiveness] > >I feel that the sprays are better than nothing, but only if the user >does not believe the hype [""this'll drop 'em in their tracks"" stuff] >and uses it as a diversion o_n_l_y . >- >|> >|> MarkS >|> -- >|> Mark Shepard | shepard@netcom.com | Portola Valley, CA > >-- >Michael Phelps, (external) mjp@vnet.ibm.com .. > (internal) mjp@bwa.kgn.ibm.com .. mjp at kgnvmy > (and last but not least a disclaimer) These opinions are mine.. What about guns with non-lethal bullets, like rubber or plastic bullets. Would those work very well in stopping an attack? Doug Holland ",16 "Cornerstone DualPage driver wanted I am looking for a WINDOW 3.1 driver for Cornerstone DualPage (Cornerstone Technology, Inc) video card. Does anybody know, that has these? Is there one? Thanks for any info, To~nis -- To~nis Kelder Estonian Biocentre (tkelder@kask.ebc.ee) ",2 "Re: Fast polygon routine needed osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski) writes: >In article <1993Apr17.192947.11230@sophia.smith.edu> orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke) writes: >>In article osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski) writes: >>>[...], but I'm looking for a fast polygon routine to be used in a 3D game. >>A fast polygon routine to do WHAT? >To draw polygons of course. Its a VGA mode 13h (320x200) game, [...] Hi, I've come across a fast triangle fill-draw routine for mode 13h. By calling this routine enough times, you have a fast polygon drawing routine. I think I ftp'ed from wuarchive.wustl.edu:/pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/programming. I have a copy of it so I reupload it there. The triangle.txt file has this to say : > C and inline assembly source for a VGA mode 13h triangle drawer. -- Stephen Quan (quan@sol.surv.utas.edu.au) Tel : 002 202844 (local) Research Fellow, Computer Scientist, Fax : 002 240282 (local) Centre for Spatial Information Systems, Tel : 61 02 202844 University of Tasmania, Australia. Fax : 61 02 240282 ",1 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qlvh1$fh0@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: |> In article <1qkn25$k@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> |> #Do you mean it's moral to use force on someone who advocates |> #the use of force? |> |> With a few provisos, yes. Minimum force, for a start. And, it |> depends on what is being forced (on either side). |> |> #Or do you mean that sometimes we have to use force on such |> #people out of necessity or self-defence, while recognizing |> #that our own actions in doing so are not moral? |> |> My opinion is that our actions would be moral, and it would be |> immoral not to act if action would be both necessary and effective. |> Again, there many caveats and provisios. |> |> Note, my usage of ""my opinion"" is an admission that I don't have a lock |> on morals, not that there is no truth about morality to have a lock on. You're admitting a lot more than that. You are admitting that your morals are situational. You are admitting that the actions of other people and the situation you are in help to determine how you judge the moral significance of one of your own actions. If you employ X degree of force, that's not moral, but if you employ X degree of force, but previously someone else has employed Y degree of force, and the situation is thus-and-so, that *is* moral. This is quite different from saying ""Employing force on other people is immoral, period. Unfortunately, from time to time we are obliged to do this immoral thing for reasons of self-preservation, and so we have to bear the moral consequences of that. For what it's worth - and yes, I know you claim to be an agnostic - it's this ability to re-label things from ""immoral"" to ""moral"" that I find one of the *least* attractive qualities of the religious mind. jon. ",19 "Re: OPINIONS WANTED -- HELP What size dirtbikes did you ride? and for how long? You might be able to slip into a 500cc bike. Like I keep telling people, though, buy an older, cheaper bike and ride that for a while first...you might like a 500 Interceptor as an example Nathaniel ZX-10 DoD 0812 AMA ",8 "Re: Phillies: A New Ballpark in Future? In a Philadelphia Inquirer a few days ago, it was reported that there were two (2) plans for a new Phillies stadium: the already-mentioned 30th Street Station proposal, and a location near Broad Street and Race Street, I think. I can't remember the exact details, but the stadium would be build practically downtown. There is a small lot that could be used, according to the paper. The 30th street plan has run into some trouble, because Amtrak does not want to reroute some of its lines in order to accomodate the stadium. I don't have an opinion just yet, just letting everyone know that there are really two options being discussed right now. Neither of these plans will be put into effect very soon, however, because nobody wants to pay for it :-) -- Keith Keller LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!! LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!! kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!! ""When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."" ",9 "Re: WANTED: Info on Image Databases Padmini Srivathsa in Wisconsin writes: >I would like references to any introductory material on image >databases. I'd be happy to US (international) Snail mail technical information on imaging databases to anyone who needs it, if you can provide me with your address for hard copy (not Email). We're focusing mostly on Open PACE, Oracle, Ingres, Adabas, Sybase, and Gupta, regarding our imaging databases installed. (We have over 1,000 installed and in production now; most of the new ones going in are on Novell LANs, the RS/6000, and now HP Unix workstations.) We work with Visual Basic too. Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com ",1 "Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series In article <1993Apr13.202037.9485@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes: |> In article rudy@netcom.com (Rudy Wade) writes: |> >In article niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma) writes: |> >>reference to history because he certainly didn't have the best season for |> >>second basemen in history. He probably didn't even have as good a season as |> >>Alomar last year. |> > |> >What? Do you have some measure (like popularity in Toronto doesn't count) |> >that you are basing this statement on? |> |> Uh, yes. Baerga has a lot of flash, but Alomar was the better hitter |> last year. |> |> BATTERS BA SLG OBP G AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS E |> BAERGA,C .312 .455 .354 161 657 92 205 299 32 1 20 105 35 76 10 2 19 |> ALOMAR,R .310 .427 .405 152 571 105 177 244 27 8 8 76 87 52 49 9 5 |> This is fascinating. You say that Alomar was the better hitter last year, and immediately follow that up with numbers showing that Baerga had a better year. The only category that I see which shows an advantage for Alomar is OBP. ",9 "Re: Catholic Lit-Crit of a.s.s. In <1993Apr14.101241.476@mtechca.maintech.com> foster@mtechca.maintech.com writes: >I am surprised and saddened. I would expect this kind of behavior >from the Evangelical Born-Again Gospel-Thumping In-Your-Face We're- >The-Only-True-Christian Protestants, but I have always thought >that Catholics behaved better than this. > Please do not stoop to the >level of the E B-A G-T I-Y-F W-T-O-T-C Protestants, who think >that the best way to witness is to be strident, intrusive, loud, >insulting and overbearingly self-righteous. (Pleading mode on) Please! I'm begging you! Quit confusing religious groups, and stop making generalizations! I'm a Protestant! I'm an evangelical! I don't believe that my way is the only way! I'm not a ""creation scientist""! I don't think that homosexuals should be hung by their toenails! If you want to discuss bible thumpers, you would be better off singling out (and making obtuse generalizations about) Fundamentalists. If you compared the actions of Presbyterians or Methodists with those of Southern Baptists, you would think that they were different religions! Please, prejudice is about thinking that all people of a group are the same, so please don't write off all Protestants or all evangelicals! (Pleading mode off.) God.......I wish I could get ahold of all the Thomas Stories...... -- ""Fbzr enval jvagre Fhaqnlf jura gurer'f n yvggyr oberqbz, lbh fubhyq nyjnlf pneel n tha. Abg gb fubbg lbhefrys, ohg gb xabj rknpgyl gung lbh'er nyjnlf znxvat n pubvpr."" --Yvan Jregzhyyre =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jemaleddin Sasha David Cole IV - Chief of Knobbery Research dlphknob@camelot.bradley.edu ",19 "Re: Windows NT und X-Windows? In mongwa@acsu.buffalo.edu (Kan Mongwa) writes: >In article <1993Apr29.220709.7347@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >>In <1993Apr26.172936.908@eurom.rhein-main.de> hein@eurom.rhein-main.de (Hein Roehrig) writes: >> >>> >>>I am not sure whether I am here in the right area, but does >>>anybody here know whether Windows NT does/will include a X >>>Windows server so that it can run X Window applications >>>remotely? >> >>No, it does not. >> >Could you add some information to 'Non it does not'. >Say for instance your source of information. I have a copy. It isn't in there. Microsoft says it will not be in the release version, either. He just asked if it did or not. I told him. >Thanks. You're welcome. -- ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ",2 "Re: Non-Apple Mini-Docks available? A A DeGuzman (deguzman@after.math.uiuc.edu) wrote: > My boss is considering the purchase of a Powerbook or Duo. He is leaning > towards a 180, because of the math coprocessor (for Mathematica), but would > get a Duo if he could find a Mini-Dock with a coprocessor. Have any > third-parties announced such a beast? I believe that E-Machines might produce something of this nature. -- Jonathan Heiliger .... Electric Power Research Institute M/M & Visualization Integrator ....... 3412 Hillview Ave. Internet: jonathan@mecca.epri.com ........ Palo Alto, CA Telephone <*> [415].855.2888 ..................... 94303 ",4 "Re: Need info on 43:1 and suicide for refutation Here's something Preston Covey (professor of ethics at CMU) wrote: From: ""Preston K. Covey"" Subject: Gun Stats & Mortal Risks Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 18:35:05 -0500 (EST) Folks, Hail from the nether world. On February 4th, the Wall Street Journal carried a front-page article by Erik Larson entitled ""Armed Force."" I felt a reply was in order to his citation of the notorious scare stat that ""A Gun is 43 times more likely to kill than to protect."" I sent the following to the WSJ. ----- Gun Stats & Mortal Risks Preston K. Covey Erik Larson~s even-handed article on Paxton Quigley (~Armed Force,~ 2/4/93, WSJ) cites the world~s most notorious ~statistic~ regarding guns in the home: ~A pioneering study of residential gunshot deaths in King County, Washington, found that a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to be used to kill its owner, spouse, a friend or child than to kill an intruder.~ The ~43 times~ stat is everywhere these days; it has grown in media lore like the proverbial urban myth: it was inflated by one pugilistic talk-show pundit to ~93.~ Given the shock value of the finding, the conclusion of the 1986 New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) study is remarkably understated: ~The advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection must be questioned.~ Responsible people should indeed question the risks and benefits of bringing a firearm into their home. But what we need to know is this: What exactly are the risks and benefits? The NEJM testimony is neither the whole truth about the benefits nor nothing but the truth about the risks. Further, as with motor vehicles, we want to know: What control do we have over the risks and benefits? And, as with the risks of cancer or heart disease or auto accidents: How can we minimize the risks? Like raw highway death tolls, the NEJM stat is not very helpful here. The NEJM finding purports to inform us, but it is framed to warn us off. It is widely promulgated in the media as a ~scare stat,~ a misleading half-truth whose very formulation is calculated to prejudice and terrify. The frightful statistic screams for itself: The risks far outweigh the benefits, yes? What fool would run these risks? If your car were 43 times more likely to kill you, a loved one, a dear friend or an innocent child than to get you to your destination, should you not take the bus? Uncritical citation puts the good name of statistics in the bad company of lies and damned lies. Surely, we can do better where lives are at stake. Let~s take a closer look at this risky business: The ~43 times~ stat of the NEJM study is the product of dividing the number of home intruders/aggressors justifiably killed in self-defense (the divisor) into the number of family members or acquaintances killed by a gun in the home (the dividend). The divisor of this risk equation is 9: in the study~s five-year sample there were 2 intruders and 7 other cases of self-defense. The dividend is 387: in the study there were 12 accidental deaths, 42 criminal homicides, and 333 suicides. 387 divided by 9 yields 43. There were a total of 743 gun-related deaths in King County between 1978 and 1983, so the study leaves 347 deaths outside of homes unaccounted. The NEJM~s notorious ~43 times~ statistic is seriously misleading on six counts: 1. The dividend is misleadingly characterized in the media: the ~or acquaintances~ of the study (who include your friendly drug dealers and neighborhood gang members) is equated to ~friends.~ The implication is that the offending guns target and kill only beloved family members, dear friends, and innocent children. Deaths may all be equally tragic, but the character and circumstance of both victims and killers are relevant to the risk. These crucial risk factors are masked by the calculated impression that the death toll is generated by witless Waltons shooting dear friends and friendly neighbors. This is criminological hogwash. 2. The study itself does not distinguish households or environs populated by people with violent, criminal, or substance-abuse histories -- where the risk of death is very high -- versus households inhabited by more civil folk (for example, people who avoid high-risk activities like drug dealing, gang banging and wife beating) -- where the risk is very low indeed. In actuality, negligent adults allow fatal but avoidable accidents; and homicides are perpetrated mostly by people with histories of violence or abuse, people who are identifiably and certifiably at ~high risk~ for misadventure. To ignore these obvious risk factors in firearm accidents and homicides is as misleading as ignoring the role of alcohol in vehicular deaths: by tautology, neither gun deaths nor vehicular deaths would occur without firearms or vehicles; but the person and circumstance of the gun owner or driver crucially affect the risk. 3. One misleading implication of the way the NEJM stat is framed is that the mere presence of a gun in the home is much more likely to kill than to protect, and this obscures -- indeed, disregards -- the role of personal responsibility. The typical quotation of this study (unlike Larson~s) attributes fatal agency to the gun: ~A gun in the home is 43 times as likely to kill . . . .~ (The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, a major promulgator of the NEJM statistic, uses this particular formulation.) We can dispense with the silly debate about whether it~s people or guns that accomplish the killing: again, by tautology, gun deaths would not occur without the guns. The question begged is how many deaths would occur anyway, without the guns. In any case, people are the death-dealing agents, the guns are their lethal instruments. The moral core of the personal risk factors in gun deaths are personal responsibility and choice. Due care and responsibility obviate gun accidents; human choice mediates homicide and suicide (by gun or otherwise). The choice to own a gun need not condemn a person to NEJM~s high-risk pool. The gun does not create this risk by itself. People have a lot to say about what risk they run with guns in their homes. For example, graduates of Paxton Quigley~s personal protection course do not run the touted ~43 times~ risk any more than skilled and sober drivers run the same risks of causing or suffering vehicular death as do reckless or drunk drivers. Undiscriminating actuarials disregard and obscure the role of personal responsibility and choice, just as they disregard and obscure the role of socio-economic, criminological and other risk-relevant factors in firearm-related death. This is why we resent insurance premiums and actuarial consigment to risk pools whose norms disregard our individualities. Fortunately, nothing can consign us to the NEJM risk pool but our own lack of choice or responsibility in the matter. 4. Suicide accounts for 84% of the deaths by gun in the home in the NEJM study. As against the total deaths by gun in King County, including those outside the home, in-house suicides are 44% of the total death toll, which is closer to the roughly 50% proportion found by other studies. Suicide is a social problem of a very different order from homicide or accidents. The implication of the NEJM study is that these suicides might not occur without readily available guns. It is true that attempted suicide by gun is likely to succeed. It is not obviously true that the absence of a gun would prevent any or all of these suicides. This is widely assumed or alleged, but the preponderance of research on guns and suicide actually shows otherwise, that this is wishful thinking in all but a few truly impulsive cases. (See: Bruce L. Danto et al., The Human Side of Homicide, Columbia University Press, 1982; Charles Rich et al., ~Guns and Suicide,~ American Journal of Psychiatry, March 1990.) If suicides were removed from the dividend of the NEJM study~s risk equation, the ~43 times~ stat would deflate to ~six.~ The inclusion of suicides in the NEJM risk equation -- like the causes, durability, or interdiction of suicidal intent itself -- is a profoundly debatable matter. Quotations of the NEJM study totally disregard this issue. 5. Citations of the NEJM study also mislead regarding the estimable rate of justifiable and excusable homicide. Most measures, like the NEJM homicide rate, are based on the immediate disposition of cases. But many homicides initially ruled criminal are appealed and later ruled self-defense. In the literature on battered women, immediate case dispositions are notorious for under-representing the rate of justifiable or excusable homicide. Time~s January 18, 1993, cover story on women ~Fighting Back~ reported one study~s finding that 40% of women who appeal have their murder convictions thrown out. Time~s July 17, 1989, cover story on a week of gun deaths reported 51% of the domestic cases as shootings by abuse victims; but only 3% of the homicides were reported as self-defense. In a May 14, 1990, update, Time reported that 12% of the homicides had eventually been ruled self-defense. In Time~s sample, the originally reported rate of self-defense was in error by a factor of four. The possibility of such error is not acknowledged by promulgators of the NEJM statistic. 6. While both the dividend and the product of the NEJM risk equation are arguably inflated, the divisor is unconscionably misleading. The divisor of this equation counts only aggressors who are killed, not aggressors who are successfully thwarted without being killed or even shot at. The utility of armed self-defense is the other side of the coin from the harms done with guns in homes. What kind of moral idiocy is it to measure this utility only in terms of killings ? Do we measure the utility of our police solely in terms of felons killed -- as opposed to the many many more who are otherwise foiled, apprehended, or deterred? Should we not celebrate (let alone count ) those cases where no human life is lost as successful armed defenses? The question posed to media that cite the NEJM scare stat is this: Why neglect the compendious research on successful armed defense, notably by criminologist Gary Kleck (Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America , Aldine de Gruyter, 1992)? Kleck~s estimations of the rate and risk of defensive firearm use are based on victimization surveys as well as other studies: the rate is high (about one million a year) and the risk is good (gun defenders fare better than anyone, either those who resort to other forms of resistance or those who do not resist). Dividing one million gun defenses a year by 30,000 annual gun deaths (from self-defense, homicides, suicides, and accidents) yields 33. Thus, we can construct a much more favorable statistic than the NEJM scare stat: A gun is 33 times more likely to be used to defend against assault or other crime than to kill anybody. Of course, Kleck~s critics belittle the dividend of this calculation; what is good news for gun defenders is bad news for gun control. We should indeed question the basis and method of Kleck~s high estimation of defensive firearm use, as I have questioned the NEJM statistic. Clearly, the issue of how to manage mortal risks is not settled by uncritical citation of statistics. One thing troubles me still: we can hardly escape the unquestioned NEJM scare stat in our media, but we hardly ever find Kleck~s good work mentioned, even critically. -- Larry Cipriani -- l.v.cipriani@att.com ",16 "Re: QuickTime performance (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???) In article <1993Apr26.170915.15833@waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University) writes: Path: dime!ymir.cs.umass.edu!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!ldo From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University) Newsgroups: comp.multimedia,comp.graphics Date: 26 Apr 93 05:09:15 GMT References: <1993Mar31.074502.3590@aragorn.unibe.ch> <1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com> Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand Lines: 67 Xref: dime comp.multimedia:6358 comp.graphics:32606 OK, with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with QuickTime, the effects of scaling and so on, I thought I'd do some more tests. First of all, I felt that my original speed test was perhaps less than realistic. The movie I had been using only had 18 frames in it (it was a version of the very first movie I created with the Compact Video compressor). I decided something a little longer would give closer to real-world results (for better or for worse). I pulled out a copy of ""2001: A Space Odyssey"" that I had recorded off TV a while back. About fifteen minutes into the movie, there's a sequence where the Earth shuttle is approaching the space station. Specifically, I digitized a portion of about 30 seconds' duration, zooming in on the rotating space station. I figured this would give a reasonable amount of movement between frames. To increase the differences between frames, I digitized it at only 5 frames per second, to give a total of 171 frames. I captured the raw footage at a resolution of 384*288 pixels with the Spigot card in my Centris 650 (quarter-size resolution from a PAL source). I then imported it into Premiere and put it through the Compact Video compressor, keeping the 5 fps frame rate. I created two versions of the movie: one scaled to 320*240 resolution, the other at 160*120 resolution. I used the default ""2.00"" quality setting in Premiere 2.0.1, and specified a key frame every ten frames. I then ran the 320*240 movie through the same ""Raw Speed Test"" program I used for the results I'd been reporting earlier. Result: a playback rate of over 45 frames per second. That's right, I was getting a much higher result than with that first short test movie. Just for fun, I copied the 320*240 movie to my external hard disk (a Quantum LP105S), and ran it from there. This time the playback rate was only about 35 frames per second. Obviously the 230MB internal hard disk (also a Quantum) is a significant contributor to the speed of playback. I modified my speed test program to allow the specification of optional scaling factors, and tried playing back the 160*120 movie scaled to 320*240 size. This time the playback speed was over 60 fps. Clearly, the poster who observed poor performance on scaled playback was seeing QuickTime 1.0 in action, not 1.5. I'd try my tests with QuickTime 1.0, but I don't think it's entirely compatible with my Centris and System 7.1... Unscaled, the playback rate for the 160*120 movie was over 100 fps. The other thing I tried was saving versions of the 320*240 movie with ""preferred"" playback rates greater than 1.0, and seeing how well they played from within MoviePlayer (ie with QuickTime's normal synchronized playback). A preferred rate of 9.0 (=> 45 fps) didn't work too well: the playback was very jerky. Compare this with the raw speed test, which achieved 45 fps with ease. I can't believe that QuickTime's synchronization code would add this much overhead: I think the slowdown was coming from the Mac system's task switching. A preferred rate of 7.0 (=> 35 fps) seemed to work fine: I couldn't see any evidence of stutter. At 8.0 (=> 40 fps) I *think* I could see slight stutter, but with four key frames every second, it was hard to tell. I guess I could try recreating the movies with a longer interval between the key frames, to make the stutter more noticeable. Of course, this will also improve the compression slightly, which should speed up the playback performance even more... Lawrence D'Oliveiro fone: +64-7-856-2889 Computer Services Dept fax: +64-7-838-4066 University of Waikato electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Hamilton, New Zealand 37^ 47' 26"" S, 175^ 19' 7"" E, GMT+12:00 I'm afraid I missed the start of this thread, but there are three factors that can significantly affect QuickTime's playback speed that you may want to take into account: (1) playback bit depth (things are fastest when you play a movie back at the bit depth it was compressed for, this is usually 8 or 16 bit, but other depths are (of course) possible). (2) type of scaling (QT is optimized for ""double size"" scaling, other scaling factors hit peformance much harder). (3) playback window position (MoviePlayer limits your window placement choices to advantagous pixel boundaries by default, I'm not sure about Premiere). Any combination of those can radically alter playback performance. Image size is, of course, another biggie. Giving the movie player lots of RAM can also make a real difference. Forgive me if these were mentioned earlier in the thread... -Peter Lee -- /-------------------- Peter E. Lee, Software Conductor ----------------------\ | Specular International, Inc. | | lee@cs.umass.edu or (413) 256-1329 (H) or (413) 549-7600 (W) | \-------- Beauty is 24 bits deep, plus eight bits of alpha channel ----------/ ",1 "RE: headlights problem THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO RESPONDED TO MY POSTING. THE PROBLEM WITH MY TRUCK'S HEADLIGHTS LOW BEAM PROBLEM WAS A ""LOOSE WIRE CONNECTION"". IT WAS NOT THE ""FUSE"" AS A MINORITY OF YOU SUGGESTED. THANKS AGAIN. ",7 "Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon In article <1993Apr22.195519.11104@convex.com> tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes: > >Better still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used >""air"". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming >was the seal technology. Where is it today? Actually the company, and the product was ROVAC - which stood for ROTary Air Conditioning..it used a rotary compressor with what was effectively an air/air heat exchanger, and worked pretty well. The negatives were mostly that it was about 5-10% less efficient than using freon, and noise problems from the high velocity/pressure air, all of which were solved by the time the company went bankrupt. It is still a legal entity in Florida, but I believe completely ""dead"".. and there's a heck of an opurtunity to buy up it's patents and restart the operation... -- Alan L. Peterman (503)-684-1984 hm & work al@qiclab.scn.rain.com It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter! ",7 "Electronic Music Software - WinSong for Windows - like NEW $70 I just received a music software WinSong for Windows and found that it needs a MIDI/sound card (Sound Blaster Pro is preferred) to have its fantastic features show up. As I don't have the plan to add a sound card now, I am putting it here for sale. It's listed $79.95 on April issue of WINDOWS magazine and I paid $84.95 as the total. I am asking around $70 with shipping included. WinSong for Windows: Composer, sequencer (tape deck), and Juke Box all in one. It's a word processor for music - you can write and edit (cut, paste, move and copy, etc) notes and symbols, play and print your composition. It's graphical user interface works like a multi-track tape recorder. Up to 64 musical tracks can be arranged for play, record, rewind, fast-forward and stop. It plays music on any MIDI compatible instrument - piano, guitar, drum set, saxophone, clarinet, organ, and many. You do not need to be a musician to use this software. The on-line manual is handy. For musicians, it's great as writing music is not a tedious and stifling aspect. Almost NEW (one week OLD), unregistered $70 (including shipping) OBO (please be reasonable) ",6 "BATF of USA A repost from talk.religion.misc,talk.politics.guns,soc.culture.jewish: From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) Subject: Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? Date: 20 Apr 1993 19:15:13 GMT Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc. In article , pmy@vivaldi.acc.Virginia.EDU (Pete Yadlowsky) writes: > >We used to live in a country where everyone enjoyed the free exercise of > >their rights to worship and bear arms. > Arms? Automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers? The sorts of things > no family should be without, I guess. All government claims. If they were really stocking such weapons for Armageddon, how come they never used them? > Anyway, I've often wondered what > business followers of Christ would have with weapons. It's hard to imagine a > pistol-packin' Jesus, though I suppose a pump-action shotgun would have > made clearing the temple a hell of a lot easier. ""The time is coming. Those of you who have no sword, sell your shirt and buy one... And they told him, Master, we have two swords. And he said, It is enough."" (LUKE ...) ""Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daugher against her mother..."" (MATT 10 34-35) > Well, when the nice federal officers come to my house to check out my > extensive weapons cache, I'll just be sure not to shoot at them. > ""Tea, ladies and gentlemen?"" Just maybe you won't be home. Then you can come home to something like this: ""Well, it's been a rough month,"" begins Johnnie Lawmaster. ""I just get laid off, and my divorce became final. But I just wasn't ready for what happened this particular Monday."" That particular Monday was was December 16, the first day of the Bill of Rights' third century, the day when federal agents and local law enforcement officer broke into the house in Tulsa that always flew the U.S. flag. When Lawmaster drove into the driveway that bleak afternoon, one of his neighbors had some news. ""'Ohmigod, John, you are in big trouble!' my neighbor tells me. 'Sixty police, federal agents and the bomb squad busted in you house, kicked down the door, cut locks off your gun safe.' I couldn't believe it. Then I walked inside. What a nightmare."" It was no nightmare; it was horribly real life. Apparently acting on information the Lawmaster possessed an illegal firearm, some thirty agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) teamed up with state and Tulsa police authorities, search warrant in hand, to search for a ""Colt, AR-15, .223 caliber machine gun, unknown serial number."" The warrant, issued by U.S. Magistrate John Leo Wagner, also authorized agents to seize ""any tools used in the alteration or modification of firearms, such as files or drills; documents, papers, books, records, and other tangible properties which identify occupants or owners of the property to be searched...."" Reports vary, but according to neighbors, the joint task force operation aimed at the unemployed warehouseman from a nearby hospital involved some 60 agents and local law enforcement personnel against Lawmaster. They cordoned off the street; took station with weapons drawn in the back yard; used a battering ram to break through the front door; kicked in the back door; broke into his gun safe; threw personal papers around the house; spilled boxes of ammunition on the floor; broke into a small, locked box that contained precious coins; stood on a table to peer through the ceiling tiles, breaking the table in the process. Then, they left. The doors were closed but not latched, much less locked. The ammo and guns were left unsecured. ""My front and back doors were pulled shut, but they were busted through and couldn't latch. Anybody could have waltzed in there and stolen everything I own. A child could have taken a gun. The guns, the safe -- everything was open and laying around. I keep all my magazines empty, but someone had loaded them. While I was looking around in amazement, the gas, electric and water companies show up to turn the power off. They said they were told to shut things down. Then I found the note. ""Nothing Found - ATF."" ""They didn't make any attempt to notify me. I've lived in Tulsa all my life and never got more than a traffic ticket. How come they can't look that up, realize I've been law-abiding my whole life, then come to the door when I'm home? They didn't leave someone here to watch over my private property. They didn't even come by to explain what happened. They just raided my home, ransaked it, left it wide open and left."" Lawmaster placed a phone call to the local BATF agent. ""I asked, 'Are you gonna' arrest me?' and he said, 'No.' I asken him, ""Who is going to repair and clean up my house?' And he said, ""If you're going to talk to me, come down to my office.' ""'I can't come down!' I said. 'My doors are broken!' If I had been on vacation and I didn't have friendly neighbors, I would have lost everything I own. Here I am a competent, responsible firearms owner, and the government leaves them open, unlocked, with ammo strewn around."" Lawmaster said the agent advised him, ""If you want your door to lock and your gun safe to lock, you're gonna' have to pay for it yourself."" ""'Oh, I'll come right down, alright,' I told him. 'I'll come down, but I'll bring my attorney.' And he said, 'Well, you bring your attorney, and we won't talk to you.'"" So if you don't want your tea party to be held in awkward silence, make sure your lawyer isn't there, there's a good chap. > It's very sad all those people died, especially the kids, but that's going > to happen in a free society whenever psychologically needy people hook up > with a charismatic nutcase. What a repulsive outlook on society. ""Followers of unusual religions may be killed by the government -- it simply can't be helped in a free society."" You and I have two different concepts of ""free."" -- cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company, OR cdt@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet... ",18 "Why are our desktop fonts changing? One of our users is having an unusual problem. If she does an Alt/Tab to a full-screen DOS program, when she goes back to Windows her desktop fonts have changed. If she goes back to a full-screen DOS program and then goes back to Windows, the font has changed back to its default font. It's not a major problem (everything works and the font is legible), but it is annoying. Does anyone have any idea why this happens. By the way, she has a DEC 486D2LP machine. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jeffrey M. Cohen Voice: 518-442-3510 Office for Research (AD 218) Fax: 518-442-3560 The University at Albany E-mail: JC924@uacsc2.albany.edu State University of New York 1400 Washington Ave. Albany, NY 12222 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ",2 "Re: Tempest whughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (William W. Hughes) writes: > Hell, just set up a spark jammer, or some other _very_ electrically-noisy > device. This doesn't work, due to the near-field far-field effect. You may stop someone five yards away from listening in, but someone fifty yards away will be relatively unaffected - unless you pump out hundreds of watts and jam all the neighbourhood TV's as well. In that case the government will stomp on you - ask any radio ham! Democratic governments care even more about their voters' right to watch soap operas than they do about national security, and dictators consider their propaganda to be an integral part of their national security. And holland@cs.colostate.edu (Doug Holland) writes: > Another idea: Use a laptop computer. As mentioned earlier, the LCD screen > is a lot less noisy than a standard CRT, but since many laptops have power > supplies that run at 3 volts instead of 5, they would be considerably > quieter. I'm afraid this doesn't work either. We can pick up laptop screens without any problem. Most of the so-called `low radiation' monitors are also useless. The description turns out to a marketing assertion rather than an engineering one. We thought there might be a market for a monitor which was not as hugely expensive as the military Tempest kit, but which was well enough shielded to stop eavesdropping using available receivers. We built a prototype, it works, and it's still sitting on my lab bench. Commercial interest was exactly zero. In the absence of open standards, a monitor which really is `low radiation' (and costs 500 dollars more) can't compete against a monitor which just claims to be `low radiation' (and whose only extra cost of production is the pretty blue sticker on the box). Ross ",11 "Latest SoCal Rides -- 4/14 Southern California RideList -- 4/14/93 Please send me any updates to this ride list. Remember, only street rides that are open to all bikers are posted. Please inc. phone # for further info. Also, send me your e-mail address if you want mailed copies of this list. I suggest calling first to make sure that info is current. If you find out further info, please let me know. I strive for accuracy but cannot be responsible for errors. e-mail address: paulb@harley.tti.com --------- c&d = coffee & donuts; Mx = Live Music; f&d = food & drinks available; * = changes since last posting; ** Address at end of posting ------- Apr 15-18 11th Annual Laughlin (NV) River Run. Rides to the run from points all over SoCal. Concerts, poker runs, parties, etc., etc. This is sponsored by the Southern Calif. Harley Dealer Assoc., but all bikes are welcome. Reservations are only $25 at any SoCal Harley Dealer. River Run 24 Hr Hotline: 800/266-6441. Discount Room reservations or concert tix: 909/883-0317 (Tues-Sat, 9A-noon & 1-4P). Apr 17 2nd Annual Racing Memorabilia Show & Sale. art, prints, photos, lithos, models, books. 310/539-8108. Apr 17-18 SCMA Route 66 Tour. 714/680-4667. Apr 18 SCMA/TRAC A. Gypsy Tour. 7A in Santa Monica. John Lane @ 818/359-0414. Apr 18 Tax Time Run for the money (ABATE #19). 200 pins, prizes, games, f&d, raffles. $7 (free if you join). s/in 8-10A @ V-Twin City, 565 Brea Canyon Rd, Walnut. Manny @ 909/594-0086. *Apr 18 3rd Annual GWTA Loma Linda Children's Hospital Benefit Run. free c&d @ start. hot dogs, etc. @ finish. s/in 8-11A @ Skip Fordyce motors, 7840 Indiana Ave., Riverside. 909/679-1097. Apr 23-25 MMA State Overnighter. Frazier Park. 805-522-6557 or 805/392-0540. Apr 23-25 32nd Yuma Prison Run. $20 mailin/$25 gate. camping. 310/944-2180 or 805/253-3043. Apr 23-25 Paso Robles Clean & Sober Run @ Paso Robles Fairgrounds. 805/461-1211. Apr 25 Shamrock's 3rd Annual Scenic Byways Tour. 2 starts, 5 routes. s/in 6:30-8:30A @ Simi Valley Honda, 4346 L.A. Ave. or Cycles Parts, 473 W. Baseline, San Bernadino. Picnic & bbq @ Lake hughes. $14. 805/584-3983. Apr 25 MRA Chap ""E"" Poker Run. 8A @ American Legion, 600 South ""D"" St., Peris. Steve Hill @ 714/244-3064. May 1 AMA Grand Nat'l Dirt Track Series race. Pomona Fairplex, 714/623-3111 or 614/891-2425. May 1 KPFK's (90.7 FM) Centerstand Radio Show and The Car Show will broadcast live from Autobooks, Etc., 3524 W. Magnolia Av., Burbank. Carshow starts @ noonb, Centerstand @ 1:30PM. 818/845-0707. May 1 ABATE #8 Poker Run. East end of Bucklin Park, Imperial Valley. s/in 8-10A. $8 includes food & entertainment. Barbara @ 619/352-7006. May 1-2 PMC 47th Annual Greenhorn Tour. 818/963-5480 or 909/593-9988. May 1-2 Song Dog Ranch Spring Rally. Overnight camping at this famousmotorcycle campground. Mx., All you can eat or drink bbq dinner. sunday bkfst. $40/person. reserve by April 26. Song Dog Ranch, Rt 33, New Cuyama (N of Ojai). 805/766-2454. (Keep trying this number). May 2 BSA Owner's Club Spring Ride. Castaic Landing. 805/273-7005. May 2 Album Release Celebration (""Helmet Laws Suck"" by Billy Gordon & The Blue Rockers) @ La Vida Hot Springs (91 to 57N to Lambert east 5 miles on left). Special Guests, Mx, raffle. 714/996-0720. May 2 1st Annual Spring Round-Up Rodeo. (ABATE #27). Many Bike Games. f&d, pins, raffle. s/in starts 9A. Games @ noon. $10 ea/$18 couple (free if you join). Robbies Restaurant, 26020 Hwy 74 (btwn Perris & Lake Elsinore). George or Susan @ 909/674-0554; Allen or Melanie @ 909/780-3743. May 14 MC Swap Meet @ Orange County Fairgnds, Costa Mesa. $6. 714/364-0515. May 14 LA Cnty MC Swap Meet. $8. 818/361-0205. May 14 Christian M/C Assn. SoCal Rally. First Assembly of God Church, 15260 Nisqually Rd, Victorville. Bob Quintard @ 909/797-9801. May 16 Mother's with the Most. 805/763-4614. May 16 4th Annual MC Awareness Day. (ABATE #22). 9:30-5p @ American Legion Hall, 1340 Gardena Bl (crnr Normandie), Gardena. Mx, Vendors, raffles, games, etc. $5 (<12 free); ($8 w/pin). f&d. Doc or Carol @ 310/371-2348 or Dieter @ 310/531-8942. May 16 Blue Knights 5th Annual Benefit Ride. Starts @ Cycle Parts West, San Diego. Harold Crosby @ 619/753-7827. May 19 Run For The Wall. LA to DC. Lv (8A? or) 9A from TA Truck Stop where I10 & I15 meet in Ontario. Camping & Motels available at each night's stop. Rides ends up at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington, DC. 100,000 bikes are expected to meet there. Call Rod Coffey @ 310/425-3145. Alt Info: send $1 p/h to John Anderson, 5920 Deer Creek Way, Paso Robles, CA 93446 or call him @ 805/237-0790. May 23 Long Beach MC Parts Exchange, LB Veterans Memorial Stadium. 310/323-9611. May 28-31 US MC Jamboree. Tulare Cnty Fairgnds, Tulare. ride in mc show, benefit poker run (sun), Mx, raffles, games. starts noon on Friday. $23; $11 (15 & under); free for 6 & under. 918/542-5939; 502/622-4810; 805/822-8939; 310/492-9688; 909/825-3798; 602/425-6609. May 29-31 Blazing Saddles Tour (SCMA). 818/789-9932. May 30 Ariel Owners Club Annual Event. 3225 Greenfield Ave., LA. Chuck Walton, 818/345-6532. Jun 6 Fun in the Sun Ride (MMA #2). Bakersfield. 805/392-0546. Jun 12-13 Class Act Tour Jun 12-13 Silver Eagles Run. Palomar, San Diego. 619/569-7370. Jun 20 Ventura Swap & Show by The Shop. @ Ventura Fairgnds. 805/656-6777. Jun 20 3rd Annual Summer Solstice Poker Run & Pig Feed. (ABATE #9). $15 ea/$25 couple (free if you join). Pig Roast, games, raffles, Mx, swimming, 300 pins. s/in 8-10A @ Swallows Inn, I5 & Ortega Hwy, San Juan Capistrano. Earl @ 714/496-3401; Rick @ 714/548-3434. Jun 25-27 MMA's Bike Fest '93 @ Mariposa Fairgrounds (Hwy 99 to Hwy 140E; go 38 miles). Mx, Camping Available; trade show, f7d, games. $25 advance/$35 gate. info & tix: 800/247-6246. Jun 27 Hope House Benefit Run (SCMA). 805/581-3235. Jul 4 Bike Show @ Accessories Unltd** Jul 4 ABATE #6 Christmas in July. 619/569-7370. Jul 11 Beach Ride 93 to benefit the Exceptional Children's Foundation. Jul 11 ABATE #8 Old Timers Poker Run. 714/998-5740. Jul 16-19 4th Annual Unicoastal Ride and Joust. Starts all over the West Coast and goes to Pine Glen Campground (near Mammoth Lakes) for a 2 or 3 day weekend of fun with the usenet personalities your fond of flaming. To get on the mail list, contact joust-request@harley.tti.com . Jul 18 Iron Horse Poker Run. 805/734-3401. Jul 21 2nd Annual National Ride to Work Day. Jul 23-25 Quaff M/C Mt. Palomar 17th Annual Overnighter @ La Jolla Campgrounds. 714/352-0443. Jul 25 5th Annual Summer Food Run. ABATE #19. 818/917-2243. Jul 30 MC Swap Meet @ Orange County Fairgnds, Costa Mesa. $6. 714/364-0515. Aug 1 Accessories Unltd** Ride Aug 7 Hot August Nights Poker Run. 805/392-0546. Aug 14-15 650 Tour (SCMA area B). 805/481-3482. Aug 21-22 Song Dog Ranch Summer Rally. Overnight camping at this famous motorcycle campground. Classical Mx., All you can eat or drink bbq dinner. sunday bkfst. $40/person. reserve by Aug 16. Song Dog Ranch, Rt 33, New Cuyama (N of Ojai). 805/766-2454. (Keep trying this number). Aug 22 Vets Benefit Run (TRAC A). 714/680-4667. Aug 22 MMA Chicken Roast. Camarillo Park. 805/522-6557. Sep 3-6 18th Annual 3 Flags Classic. Juarez, Mexico to Southern Alberta, Canada. $110/person. received by 1/23/93. Frank Weed @ 714/879-9432. (or try 714/962-3150) Sep 3-6 ABATE's Golden State Rendezvous. 10A Fri-noon Mon @ Mid State Fairgrounds, Paso Robles. Sep 12 Iron Horse Rocket Run. 805/734-3401. Sep 19 Black Gold Poker Run (Taft MC). 805/765-5085. Sep 24-26 Redwood Run #2. Sep 25-27 Bonanza Tour (Shamrocks). 805/272-9865. Oct 1 MC Swap Meet @ Orange County Fairgnds, Costa Mesa. $6. 714/364-0515. Oct 9-10 Song Dog Ranch Fall Rally. Overnight camping at this famous motorcycle campground. Mx., All you can eat or drink bbq dinner. sunday bkfst. $40/person. reserve by Oct 4. Song Dog Ranch, Rt 33, New Cuyama (N of Ojai). 805/766-2454. (Keep trying this number). Oct 16-17 SCMA Grand Tour 805/269-1399. Oct 22-24 Easyriders Motorcycle Rodeo. Antelope Valley Fairgrounds (Hwy. 14 N. to Ave, I exit, right), Lancaster. Oct 23-24 22nd Annual Griffith Park Sidecar Rally. Mineral Springs area of the Park. Doug Bingham @ 818/780-5542. Oct 24 MRA Chap ""E"" Ride Nov 7 Love Ride 10 to benefit the Muscular Dystrophy Assoc. Sponsored by Glendale H-D, 3717 San Fernando Rd, Glendale. 818/246-5618. Nov 14 Toy-Key Run (SCMA Area B). 805/481-3482. Nov 14 MC Awareness Day (ABATE 1) Nov 21 Accessories Unlimited** Posse Ride. Dec 3 MC Swap Meet @ Orange County Fairgnds, Costa Mesa. $6. 714/364-0515. Dec 12 Hathaway Children's Center Toy Run -------------------- ONGOING EVENTS & NOTICES ---------------------------- HD Swap Meet & Show. Santa Fe Springs Drive-in, 13963 Alondra Blvd. 5:30-10:30P, 3rd Thurs ea mo. $5 fee. 310/944-4268. note that in April, it was moved to 4/8. Free seminars every Saturday @ Luftmeister, Inc., Long Beach. 310/539-6420. Tune in Centerstand, a radio program for motorcyclists every Saturday from 1:30-2PM on KPFK, 90.7 FM Parents w/out Partners MC Club meets 2nd Sat @ 8A at Cocos, Brea Rd & Colina Road in Diamondbar. 909/595-3785 A new mc club for women only is forming: Diamonds and Pearls. 818/706-3164 MARC (Motorcycling Amateur Radio Club) meets 8A, 2nd Sat @ Denny's, 2314 E 17th St, Santa Ana. Net @ 8P Weds on 146.985- . Info: Ray or Bonnie @ 714/551-1036. ------------------- ** ADDRESSES ----------------------------------------- Follows Camp -- From 210 or 10 Fwy, go North on Azusa Ave (Hwy 39) To East Fork Rd. Go 2.5 miles East to camp (hint: look for bridge). Accessories Unlimited -- 24508 Lyons Ave (at I5), Newhall. 805/255-6522. Cycle Parts West -- 13682 Beach Blvd, Westminister. ",8 "Market Access In article <1993Apr22.041452.27262@eecs.nwu.edu> andrew@eecs.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes: >... >What about the rice import issue? Of course, it is not closed up >like a shell, but how open is it compared to to US? Japan is _much_ more open than Korea. Yes. A Pontiac Grand Am suffers a factor of _2_ increase in price when it is exported to Japan. However, a Dodge vehicle (the one that Congressman Gephardt mentioned) suffers a factor of _4_ increase in price when it is exported to Korea. A Ford Taurus suffers the same problem. A Honda Accord costs--I am not making this up--$48,000 in Korea. Just how many people would want to buy a Honda Accord for $48,000? Solution: All ships carrying Korean-made vehicles should be returned to Seoul. Pronto. Until as such time as Korea decides that it wants to abide by the rules of free and fair trade with the USA and Japan. ,,, sayoonara o o / --------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo-----------------------+------------ Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka. | \| |` Imi ga nai yo. Umarete kurou shite yatto shinde shimau. | | -+- Semete shinde kara itsu made mo anshin dekiru. | /| / \ Kami-sama, ima irasshaimasen ka. | ------------------------------------------------------------------+------------ ",7 "Re: Rawlins debunks creationism >What is the fact of evolution? There is a difference between calling evolution a >fact and talking about the theory of evolution providing facts (I happen to think >the latter is more accurate ). And you said it best yourself: If you assess >the _theories_ of evolution objectively... Why didn't you say, If you assess >the _facts_ of evolution objectively... -- > jim halat halat@bear.com >bear-stearns --whatever doesn't kill you will only serve to annoy you-- > nyc i speak only for myself The fossil record, for example, shows us the FACT of evolution. The THEORY of evolution attempts to explain how the changes shown in the fossil record have occurred. The theory does not provide the facts; they are there already. __________________________________________________________ Tom Swanson | I really should be working on my thesis... OSU Physics | ",19 "Re: Sr-71 in propoganda films? In article <1993Apr5.220610.1532@sequent.com>, bigfoot@sequent.com (Gregory Smith) writes: |> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: |> |> >In <1phv98$jbk@access.digex.net> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: |> |> |> >>THe SR-71 stopped being a real secret by the mid 70's. |> >>I had a friend in high school who had a poster with it's picture. |> |> >It was known well before that. I built a model of it sometime in the |> >mid 60's, billed as YF-12A/SR-71. The model was based on YF-12A specs |> >and had a big radar in the nose and 8 AAMs in closed bays on the |> >underside of the fuselage. The description, even then, read ""speeds |> >in excess of Mach 3 at altitudes exceeding 80,000 feet."" |> |> L.B.J. publically announced the existance of the Blackbird program |> in 1964. He's also the one who dubbed it the SR-71 - it was the RS-71 until LBJ mippselled (sic) it. FWIW, Doug Page *** The opinions are mine (maybe), and don't necessarily represent those *** *** of my employer. *** ",14 "Re: MGBs and the real world In article <1993Apr5.181056.29411@mks.com> mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank) writes: >My sister has an MGB. She has one from the last year they were produced >(1978? 1979?). Its in very good shape. I've been bugging her for years >about selling it. I've said over and over that she should sell it >before the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may >actually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability. > Grass Roots Motorsport [3/93] has a long article about MG/B's this month. As far as collectivity/speculation is concerned they think it is a waste of time, especially the later rubber bumpered models are the least desirable, a 1962 original model the most. The reasons for its low value are easy availability and the fact that it just was not a very good car. Craig >Which one of us is right? Are there MGB affectionados out there who are >still willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG? Are there a lot out in the >market? >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Mike Brookbank, |MKS| 35 King St. North mike@mks.com >Director, InterOpen Sales, |MKT| Waterloo, Ontario (519)884-2251 >Mortice Kern Systems Inc. |MKS| Canada, N2J 2W9 fax (519)884-8861 ",7 "Re: SOLUTION: Multi-setups on standalone EASY!!! rhudson@gomez.intel.com (Ron A. Hudson) writes: >Peter Goudswaard (goudswaa@fraser.sfu.ca) wrote: >>-- Setup deleted... >> Finally, in order to run _your_ specific version of Windows, you >> must simply change the path to include C:\WINMASTR *and* your >> specific configuration path, e.g. C:\WINWIFE. You could get >> fancy and use batch files, environment variables, or a menuing >> system to do this. >--- other stuff delete... >If you happen to be running the new msdos 6, you could use multi- >setup to provide a menu with a menu choice for each person using >the machine ... power up, select your name, the menu will use your >personal sections of config.sys and autoexec.bat thus setting up the >path, then running your windows copy! >Ron Excellent suggestion, Ron. And as a further comment on DOS 6, if you decide to install Windows standalone configuration completely, in more than 1 directory on your hard drive, and use DOS 6 to jump to a specific copy for each user, you could be saving yourself many megs of disk space if you use the SETUP /N and /A technique!! -- Peter Goudswaard _________ _________ goudswaa@sfu.ca (preferred) | | __/^\__ | | pgoudswa@cln.etc.bc.ca | | \ / | | pgoudswa@cue.bc.ca | | _/\_\ /_/\_ | | | | > < | | ""There's no gift like the present"" | >_________< | | - Goudswaard's observation |_________| | |_________| ",2 "CLINTON: War Powers Resolution on Bosnia 4.14.93 THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary _______________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 14, 1993 TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT TO THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE PRESIDENT PRO TEMPORE OF THE SENATE April 13, 1993 Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:) As part of my continuing effort to keep the Congress fully informed, I am providing this report, consistent with section 4 of the War Powers Resolution, to advise you of actions that I have ordered in support of the United Nations efforts in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Beginning with U.N. Security Council Resolution 713 of September 25, 1991, the United Nations has been actively addressing the crisis in the former Yugoslavia. The Security Council acted in Resolution 781 to establish a ban on all unauthorized military flights over Bosnia-Herzegovina. There have, however, been blatant violations of the ban, and villages in Bosnia have been bombed. In response to these violations, the Security Council decided, in Resolution 816 of March 31, 1993, to extend the ban to all unauthorized flights over Bosnia-Herzegovina and to authorize Member States, acting nationally or through regional organi- zations, to take all necessary measures to ensure compliance. NATO's North Atlantic Council (NAC) agreed to provide NATO air enforcement for the no-fly zone. The U.N. Secretary General was notified of NATO's decision to proceed with Operation DENY FLIGHT, and an activation order was delivered to participating allies. The United States actively supported these decisions. At my direction, the Joint Chiefs of Staff sent an execute order to all U.S. forces participating in the NATO force, for the conduct of phased air operations to prevent flights not authorized by the United Nations over Bosnia-Herzegovina. The U.S. forces initially assigned to this operation consist of 13 F-15 and 12 F-18A fighter aircraft and supporting tanker aircraft. These aircraft commenced enforcement operations at 8:00 a.m. e.d.t. on April 12, 1993. The fighter aircraft are equipped for combat to accomplish their mission and for self-defense. NATO has positioned forces and has established combat air patrol (CAP) stations within the control of Airborne Early Warning (AEW) aircraft. The U.S. CAP aircraft will normally operate from bases in Italy and from an aircraft carrier in the Adriatic Sea. Unauthorized aircraft entering or approaching the no-fly zone will be identified, interrogated, intercepted, escorted/monitored, and turned away (in that order). If these steps do not result in compliance with the no-fly zone, such aircraft may be engaged on the basis of proper authorization by NATO military authorities and in accordance with the approved more (OVER) 2 rules of engagement, although we do not expect such action will be necessary. The Commander of UNPROFOR (the United Nations Protection Force currently operating in Bosnia-Herzegovina) was consulted to ensure that his concerns for his force were fully considered before the rules of engagement were approved. It is not possible to predict at this time how long such operations will be necessary. I have directed U.S. armed forces to participate in these operations pursuant to my constitutional authority as Commander in Chief. I am grateful for the con- tinuing support that the Congress has given to this effort, and I look forward to continued cooperation as we move forward toward attainment of our goals in this region. Sincerely, WILLIAM J. CLINTON # # # ",18 "Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx? In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes: | cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes: | >aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes: | | >>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration. | >>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to) | | > Then what is a ""Flat-"" engine??? | | flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed | | Usually, it also equals ""boxer,"" however, I think the term is | traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters). | This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember | the consensus. | | Examples: | | Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer. | Porsche's 911 is a flat 6. | Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4. | | Regards, | Not to inject a non-automotive note to this thread, but the BMW opposed twin used in motorcycles for a *long* time is and always has been known as a ""boxer"". -- Ken Franklin They say there's a heaven for people who wait AMA And some say it's better but I say it ain't GWRRA I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints DoD #0126 The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young ",7 "What is reverse or negative video? I'm interested in simulating reverse (or negative) color video mathematically. What is the transform? Is it a simple reversal of the hue value in the HSV color space? Is it a manipulation in the YUV color space? How is it related to solarization? If you want to see something truly wild, turn on the reverse video effect on a camcorder so equipped, and point it at the monitor. This creates a chaotic dynamical system whose phase space is continuous along rotation, zoom, focus, etc. Very very surprising and lovely. I'd like to write a simulation of this effect without analog grunge. Thanks for any info you may have. Please e-mail any info to me. I'll post a summary. Thanks, -- Lance Norskog thinman@netcom.com Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom. ",1 "Re: Marching Cubs I saw this subject and all I could think of was a parade at Wrigley Field in Chicago. Or maybe it's just me. :) -- Marc Cooper - Graphics Programmer - Sverdrup Tech.| ""As a child, I WAS an fsmarc@lerc.nasa.gov | imaginary playmate."" NASA Lewis Research Center MS 5-11 | 21000 Brookpark Dr. | Tom Robbins Cleveland, OH 44135 (216) 433-8898 | Even Cowgirls Get the Blues ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: ""It's mine! All mine!"" -D. Duck ",1 "Role of 'SDPA.ORG' in slaughter of Gunduz, Ariyak, Arikan, Benler,... In article <1993Apr16.044001.15540@urartu.sdpa.org> hla@urartu.sdpa.org writes: >Sure it is. It tells us how far right the whole Turkish political spectrum Nobody ever exposed your crimes like that before? What was your personal role in the murder of Orhan Gunduz and Kemal Arikan, again? How many more Muslims will be slaughtered by 'SDPA.ORG' as publicly declared and filed with legal authorities? Please spell it out for us. ""...that more people have to die..."" SDPA <91@urartu.UUCP> ""Yes, I stated this and stand by it."" SDPA <255@urartu.UUCP> January 28, 1982 - Los Angeles Kemal Arikan is slaughtered by two Armenians while driving to work. March 22, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts Prelude to grisly murder. A gift and import shop belonging to Orhan Gunduz is blown up. Gunduz receives an ultimatum: Either he gives up his honorary position or he will be ""executed"". He refuses. ""Responsibility"" is claimed by JCAG and SDPA. May 4, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts Orhan Gunduz, the Turkish honorary consul in Boston, would not bow to the Armenian terrorist ultimatum that he give up his title of ""honorary consul"". Now he is attacked and murdered in cold blood. President Reagan orders an all-out manhunt-to no avail. An eye- witness who gave a description of the murderer is shot down. He survives... but falls silent. One of the most revolting ""triumphs"" in the senseless, mindless history of Armenian terrorism. Such a murder brings absolutely nothing - except an ego boost for the murderer within the Armenian terrorist underworld, which is already wallowing in self-satisfaction. Were you involved in the murder of Sarik Ariyak? December 17, 1980 - Sydney Two Nazi Armenians massacre Sarik Ariyak and his bodyguard, Engin Sever. JCAG and SDPA claim responsibility. It is public knowledge that the founder of the Marxist-Leninist terrorist organization, the ASALA (an integral part of ASALA/SDPA/ARF), Hagop Hagopian, began his notorious career as a member of the terrorist group which perpetrated the massacre of the Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972. And the 'Armenian Foundation' stole from the children of Turkiye to fund the criminal activities of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF terrorists in their cold-blooded murder of defenceless Turkish and Kurdish people. THE ARMENIAN FOUNDATION PROVIDED 30 BILLION TL TO ASALA 01/09/92, MILLIYET-- The Armenian Foundation based in Istanbul is found to have provided 30 billion Turkish Lira ($6 million) to the Armenian terrorist organization ASALA which have murdered several Turkish diplomats abroad... Experts on international terrorism assert that the Armenian terrorists use proceeds from drug trafficking (and from the Armenian Foundation) to fund their deadly enterprises. The deadliest of terrorist assassins, Carlos, proclaimed on Spanish television that his organization had entered into a working relationship with Armenian terrorists and they are using drug trafficking to raise money 'to continue' to slaughter innocent people. Now, what is your personal and organizational role in this scheme? Recent reports which have been confirmed by the U.S. Administration, indicate that Armenian terrorist organizations are collaborating with those who are responsible for the bombing of the United States Marine barracks in Beirut. You won't be able to get away with your crimes forever; the justice is long overdue. As for the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914 and 1920: Source: Documents: Volume I (1919). ""Document No: 42,"" Archive No: 1-2, Cabin No: 110, Drawer No: 1(4), File No: 373, Section No: 1484(1032), Contents No: 9, 9-1. (To the Office of Acting Supreme Commander - Acting Assistant Section Director Major Ali Sukru) ""It is sufficient to mention just some of the terrible and shameful crimes committed only in Erzurum to get an idea about the Armenian atrocities in the villages... I would also like to mention with disgust and abominable sight, a stain on humanity, that I encountered at the west of Hasankale while my regiment was proceeding into this town. There was a young Turkish women, apparently once a very beautiful one, lying dead on one side of the road. A huge stick had been inserted into her vagina. We took the corpses and left it at a spot that was invisible from the road..."" Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Re: DID HE REALLY RISE??? In article reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu writes: >The basic problem with your argument is your total and complete reliance on >the biblical text. Luke's account is highly suspect (I would refer you to >the hermeneia commentary on Acts). Moreover Luke's account is written at >least 90 years after the fact. In the meantime everyone he mentions has died >and attempts to find actual written sources behind the text have come up >with only the we section of the later portion of acts as firmly established. >Moreover, Pauls account of some of the events in Acts (as recorded in >Galatians) fail to establish the acts accounts. Even if there was no independent proof that Luke's account was valid, I find it strange that you would take the negation of it as truth without any direct historical evidence (at least that you've mentioned) to back it up. The assertion was made, unequivocally that no Christian ever sufferred for their faith by believing in the Resurrection. Luke's account suggests otherwise, and in the absence of direct eyewitnesses who can claim that Luke is mistaken, then I suggest that this unequivocal assertion is suspect. >randy -- John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet: ata@hfsi.com HFS, Inc. VA20 | UUCP: uunet!hfsi!ata 7900 Westpark Drive MS:601 | Voice: (703) 827-6810 McLean, VA 22102 | FAX: (703) 827-3729 [I think the original claim may have been somewhat more limited than this. It was an answer to the claim that the witnesses couldn't be lying because they were willign to suffer for their beliefs. Thus it's not necessary to show that no Christian ever suffered for believing in the Resurrection. Rather the issue is whether those who witnessed it did. I do agree that the posting you're responding to shows that there can be liberal as well as conservative dogmatism. --clh] ",15 "Re: NEW CD-ROM for Gateways', and misc. info Terry Clark (tclark@news.weeg.uiowa.edu) wrote: : The upgrade to a Nanao 550i is now $765. : (this monitor will handle 1280x1024 at a vertical refresh : of 72-76Hz). Not according to Nanao. The 550i will not do better than 60Hz at 1280x1024. BTW, Gateway told me the same thing. -- Phil ------------------------------------------- Phil Spiro spiro@netcom.com 415-964-6647 ",3 "PR Campaign Against Iran (PBS Frontline) There have been a number of articles on the PBS frontline program about Iranian bomb. Here is my $0.02 on this and related subjects. One is curious to know the real reasons behind this and related public relations campaign about Iran in recent months. These include: 1) Attempts to implicate Iran in the bombing of the New York Trade Center. Despite great efforts in this direction they have not succeeded in this. They, however, have indirectly created the impression that Iran is behind the rise of fundamentalist Islamic movements and thus are indirectly implicated in this matter. 2) Public statements by the Secretary of State Christoffer and other official sources regarding Iran being a terrorist and outlaw state. 3) And finally the recent broadcast of the Frontline program. I suspect that this PR campaign against Iran will continue and perhaps intensify. Why this increased pressure on Iran? A number of factors may have been behind this. These include: 1) The rise of Islamic movements in North-Africa and radical Hamas movement in the Israeli occupied territories. This movement is basically anti-western and is not necessarily fueled by Iran. The cause for accelerated pace of this movement is probably the Gulf War which sought to return colonial Shieks and Amirs to their throne in the name of democracy and freedom. Also, the obvious support of Algerian military coup against the democratically elected Algerian Islamic Front which clearly exposed the democracy myth. A further cause of this may be the daily broadcast of the news on the slaughter of Bosnian Moslems. 2) Possible future implications of this movement in Saudi Arabia and other US client states and endangerment of the cheap oil sources from this region. 3) A need to create an enemy as an excuse for huge defense expenditures. This has become necessary after the demise of Soveit Union. The recent PR campaign against Iran, however, seems to be directed from Israel rather than Washington. There is no fundamental conflict of interest between Iran and the US and in my opinion, it is in the interest of both countries to affect reestablishment of normal and friendly relations. This may have a moderating effect on the rise of radical movements within the Islamic world and Iran . --jamshid ",17 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <116288@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes: >In article <15427@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: > >>Homosexuals lie about the 10% number to hide the disproportionate >>involvement of homosexuals in child molestation. They also lie >>about ""10%"" to keep politicians scared. > >1. You haven't shown any disproportionate involvement. > >2. The Janus Report, which came out recently, gives 9% as the percentage >of exclusively or predominantly gay men. I thumbed through the Janus Report in a bookstore recently looking for a clue about their methodology. They were very unclear about it, but as far as I could tell they relied on their professional associates in the psychotherapy profession to provide the subjects, interviews, and numbers. If so, this would hardly represent an average cross-section. I posted to Usenet at the time asking for more data about their methodology but answer came there none. (I must have been out of my mind for even asking for factual information on Usenet!) >3. No one is presumably going to say they're gay if they're not. But >some no doubt are going to hide their homosexuality in surveys. Thus >the 1-2% is a lower limit. This is the problem. People have to have a lot of confidence in the anonymity of a study before they can counted on to speak freely about stuff like that. But I agree that if someone's going to lie it will be in the direction of a gay person claiming to be straight rather than the other way around. >I still say that weighing all the evidence gives a most likely percentage >between 5 and 7%. I don't see why there's any more evidence for this figure than any other. It seems totally arbitrary. ---peter ",18 "Re: Who's next? Mormons and Jews? I was slightly surprised to see the ""Guns of Roston"" open up on me here. But Gerry has his posting record and I have mine. Although I'm usually more polite than Gerry is, I'm not afraid of controversy either. If this looks like an argument that he started just to be contrary, or to pander to the sci.skeptic masses (to say nothing of the libertarian masses), I'll certainly bow out. My schedule for the next two weeks does NOT read, ""23 April through 8 May: Debate Gerry Roston on the true meaning of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights; include a long discourse on the validity of Jefferson's claims in the Declaration of Independence."" I've crossposted this to misc.legal, so that REAL lawyers can pass judgement on Gerry's legal arguments... In article gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: >In article <2003@tecsun1.tec.army.mil> riggs@descartes.etl.army.mil (Bill Riggs) writes: > > One thing that should be made clear is that neither the FBI nor > the BATF is responsible for what happened yesterday. One can argue about > the initial raid, but it would be worth mentioning, before the facts get > lost, that > > 1. The Branch Davidians were tipped off that the BATF was coming > during the initial raid. > > 2. The Branch Davidians opened fire first. > >Sigh, I was waiting some some not-so-intelligent person to bring this >up. Look, this is a country of laws. To quote a piece of parchment >that many seem to think is of little importance: > > 4th Amendment > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, > papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, > shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon > probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and > particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons > or things to be seized. The first question is, ""Did the 'tip-off' call indicate to the Branch Davidians that a ""no-knock warrant"" was in use (and they could therefore presumably go into 'Weapons Free' once the compound property was entered ?"" The second question is, ""What makes Gerry think that the Davidians' actions would have been different had another type of warrant been in use ?"" I'd like to see both of these questions answered before seeking judgment as to any claims about my IQ. > >No, a no-knock warrant is in clear violation of the 4th amendment. >Okay, what about the fact that they were tipped off - they shouldn't >have opened fire - right? WRONG! Think about this: I am a drug >dealer and my competition wants to do away with me. They call me and >tell me that the Feds are on their way with a no-knock warrant. So, >being moronic sheep we wait, with our guns holstered. Now, instead of >the Feds, in comes my competition, and we're history. The only >acceptable answer to a no-knock warrant is blazing guns! I may sound >paranoid, but our government is out of control, and killing a few >federal officers make knock some sense back into it. A spurious analogy, especially for one so skeptical as Gerry. The Davidians were NOT drug dealers, and by all accounts feared no one but the Feds. Any evidence to the contrary ? Bill R. -- ""When up a dangerous faction starts, ""My opinions do not represent With wrath and vengeance in their hearts; those of my employer or By solemn League and Cov'nant bound, any government agency."" To ruin, slaughter, and confound; - Bill Riggs (1992) To turn religion to a fable, And turn the Government to a Babel; Pervert the law, disgrace the gown, Corrupt the senate, rob the crown; To sacrifice old England's glory, And make her infamous in story. When such a tempest shook the land, How could unguarded virtue stand ?"" - Jonathan Swift (1732) ",19 "Vanishing font problem.... A colleague has a bizarre font problem on his new MIPS workstation. When he first logs on (via xdm), he has a single xterm window appear with the mwm window manager running. In this configuration, X windows applications (particularly xdvi) work fine. However, if he opens up a second xterm application, suddenly xdvi cannot start in either window, giving the error: Unable to load ISO 8859-1 font. The only difference between the two xterm windows is that the initial one references a different name in the Xsession file, with prettier colours and other slight changes. Further investigation shows that only opening a default xterm causes this behaviour, and more significant, ALL X applications can no longer load any fonts if they are invoked from the command line in either window. If I start the xterm with a different font (using the -fn option), no problems. It would seem that the default xterm is loading a font which somehow causes the server to lose all of its fonts. Note: xlsfonts in either window shows all of the fonts available, so there doesn't appear to be a problem in the font directories/hash-tables. Other than rewriting the XTerm app-defaults file to use a different font and hope for the best, does anyone have any ideas? More info: This is the most recent MIPS workstation (R4000 I believe), with the most current operating system and running X11R5. It is not mwm's fault, as the same problems occur under twm, etc. ",5 "Re: Christian meta-ethics -*---- I wrote: >> And who is to say that this interpretation is ""twisted""? There >> are many passages in the Bible that in their most straightforward >> reading show the Christian god behaving in just this way. In article <1r622c$c17@cass.ma02.bull.com> ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis) writes: > This requires the assumption that all interpretations are equally > valid, that there is no way of reasonably distinguishing among > them. I wouldn't make that assumption; I don't think it is a > reasonable assumption. No. It follows from the fact that most Christians' choice of interpretation stems from a mix of beliefs that are influenced by the secular ethics of their culture and that are not fully determined by scripture. Whether or not there is some ""right"" interpretation matters not; few Christians claim the ability to read the mind of their god. Dave Davis should note that it was Michael who first stated the importance of secular and cultural influence in this thread. I think Michael is right in this, but regardless, it should be noted that this has *not* been a point of contention between Michael and myself. I have argued -- beyond Michael's claims -- that the Christian scriptures are open to so many interpretations -- including a wide divergence within the Christian tradition -- that even their most important themes are vague. Again, it does not matter that there is some ""right"" interpretation *unless* there is a way to determine what that ""right"" interpretation is. It is the lack of an objective measure, not the presumed lack of an answer, that puts the force behind the line I argue. > Michael, and I, and others, read 'the Bible' with Christian > glasses. Among the things that this should imply is that the > NT informs the OT, even to the point of dominanting it. Some > points in the OT (ceremonial & dietary laws) are explicitly > abrogated by the NT texts. ... There are enough Christian glasses, varying over a sufficiently broad range of color, that I can find a few that support my example. >> No, Michael, the conservative Christians also take the gospel >> seriously. What differentiates you is the way you interpret the >> gospel. > Russell Turpin's 'No' here is misplaced, not to say inappropriate. > Michael's self-description must govern. The equation of radical = > liberal, which seems implied by Russell Turpin is wrong. ... In my opinion, what makes Michael radical is that he fully acknowledges that Christian scripture and tradition fail to determine the doctrines that so many branches within Christianity hold dear. He is willing to live and practice his religion within this indeterminacy, and he is willing to acknowledge that much of his understanding of things Christian is influenced by ideas that are not purely Christian. Those Christians I have called conservative must also interpret, but they do not recognize -- or at least, are unwilling to admit -- the extent and importance of this. > Russell Turpin (in an earlier post) had said that Michael (Michael's > theological positions, actually) didn't tell him much about Christianity; > Dean Simeon responds (this time gently): 'What do you mean?' More > direct, perhaps, would have been: 'What could you possibly mean?' > The implied rhetorical effort, to separate Michael from the tradition, > is a failure. Michael is in the tradition. If your idea of the tradition > doesn't include him, Change your idea of the tradition! I recognize that Michael is part of the tradition. But what does it tell one about a tradition covering Origen, Aquinas, Jerry Fallwell, and Jesse Jackson that it also includes Michael Siemon? Not very much! >> ... In short, it is the extra-Christian principles that make >> Michael's Christianity beneficial, and I suspect they would >> be as beneficial, perhaps moreso, without being filtered by >> Christian interpretation. > This conclusion does not follow, even in short, from the > argument that goes before. A surprising logical ellipsis. I think the conclusion does follow. The purely Christian principles that Michael has are the ones he shares with others in the Christian tradition or that can be derived from Christian scripture. These, necessarily vague, are not enough to drive his political stances. That one should love one's neighbor is a purely Christian principle. That this means showing tolerance for homosexuality is *not*. As to these political stances, they are often at odds with what is commonly held in most of current Christendom, and so I suspect they could be better pressed outside it. (On the other hand, I can well understand the counterpoint, that these political stances become most influential when presented to those who need them most.) -*---- > This is a theological statement worthy of Barth. > Dr Turpin (DD) may wear the black robe of Geneva yet! :-) Having barely survived the effort to finish in computer science, I doubt I will attempt a more difficult field any time soon! Russell ",19 "Re: Space Station Redesign, JSC Alternative #4 In article <1993Apr27.092444.27199@ee.ubc.ca>, davem@ee.ubc.ca (Dave Michelson) wrote: > > In article <1ralibINNc0f@cbl.umd.edu> mike@starburst.umd.edu (Michael F. Santangelo) writes: > >dbm0000@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (David B. Mckissock) writes: > > > >...text of options ""A"" and ""B"" deleted... > > > >>Option C - Single Core Launch Station. > >>This is the JSC lead option. Basically, you take a 23 ft diameter > >>cylinder that's 92 ft long, slap 3 Space Shuttle Main Engines on > >>the backside, put a nose cone on the top, attached it to a > >>regular shuttle external tank and a regular set of solid rocket > >>motors, and launch the can. Some key features are: > >> - Complete end-to-end ground integration and checkout > >> - 4 tangentially mounted fixed solar panels > >> - body mounted radiators (which adds protection against > >> micrometeroid & orbital debris) > >> - 2 centerline docking ports (one on each end) > >> - 7 berthing ports > >> - a single pressurized volume, approximately 26,000 cubic feet > >> (twice the volume of skylab). > >> - 7 floors, center passageway between floors > >> - 10 kW of housekeeping power > > > >Somehow I have a strange attraction for this idea (living in > >a modular home maybe has altered my mind). The only thing > >that scares me is the part about simply strapping 3 SSME's and > >a nosecone on it and ""just launching it."" I have this vision > >of something going terribly wrong with the launch resulting in the > >complete loss of the new modular space station (not just a peice of > >it as would be the case with staged in-orbit construction). > > I certainly like this ""Option C""... It's much more like the original > Phase B studies from the early 1970's. Good stuff! This is actually more like the stuff from Phase A and MOL....Phase B ended with a ""Power Tower"" approach.... It's also VERY expensive in terms of upfront development costs....so all you get is a redistribution of costs from the shuttle flights to the contractors who build it. ",14 "Stan Fischler, 4/4 At the Lester Patrick Awards lunch, Bill Torrey mentioned that one of his options next season is to be president of the Miami team, with Bob Clarke working for him. At the same dinner, Clarke said that his worst mistake in Philadelphia was letting Mike Keenan go -- in retrospect, almost all players came realize that Keenan knew what it took to win. Rumours are now circulating that Keenan will be back with the Flyers. Nick Polano is sick of being a scapegoat for the schedule made for the Red Wings; After all, Bryan Murray approved it. Gerry Meehan and John Muckler are worried over the Sabres' prospects; Assistant Don Lever says that the Sabres have to get their share now, because a Quebec dynasty is emerging ... The Mighty Ducks have declared that they will not throw money around loosely to buy a team. Oilers coach Ted Green remarked that ""There some guys around who can fill Tie Domi's skates, but none who can fill his helmet."" Senators' Andrew McBain told off a security guard at Chicago Stadium who warned him of the stairs leading down to the locker room; McBain mouthed off at him, after all being a seasoned professional ... and tumbled down the entire steep flight. gld -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary L. Dare > gld@columbia.EDU GO Winnipeg Jets GO!!! > gld@cunixc.BITNET Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley ",10 "Re: A Little Too Satanic In article <66486@mimsy.umd.edu>, mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes: |> Jeff West writes: |> |> >You claimed that people that took the time to translate the bible would |> >also take the time to get it right. But here in less than a couple |> >generations you've been given ample proof (agreed to by yourself above) |> >that the ""new"" versions ""tends to be out of step with other modern |> >translations."" |> |> What I said was that people took time to *copy* *the* *text* correctly. |> Translations present completely different issues. So why do I read in the papers that the Qumram texts had ""different versions"" of some OT texts. Did I misunderstand? jon. ",0 "Re: 2 IDE-HDs Volker Voecking (voecking@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE) wrote: : : Hello : : I have problems combining two IDE hard disks : (Seagate ST3283A and Quantum LPS105A). As single hard disk both : are working fine, but connecting them together to my : controller doesn't work. : : My questions are: : : - Has anybody out there ever been succesful using such hard disks : together and if so what jumper settings and BIOS settting did he/she : use? : : - Is it possible that my controller is the reason for my troubles ? : The only thing I know about it is that it is an : IDE-harddisk-controller. How many harddisks can such a controller : control? In my case only one ? : : : Thanks in advance : : Volker : IDE drives have jumpers on them to indicate if it is a master or a slave. If it is a master, then a second jumper indicates if a slave is present. These must be set correctly according to each drive's manufacturers spec- ification. The CMOS setup is almost positively NOT the problem. It is probably not the controller - IDE controllers all support exactly two drives maximum. Check those jumpers. Gordon Lang ",3 "When is Apple going to ship CD300i's? I would really like to get one of the new CD300i CDROM drives for my c650, but my local Apple doesn't know when they will be available. He doesn't even have a part number yet. Does anyone know what the part number for this drive is and when it will be available? My Apple dealer suggested I buy one of the CD300 external drives, but I don't want to pay extra for a case/power supply I'm not going to use. -Rodney Jacks (rjacks@austlcm.sps.mot.com) ",4 "CLINTON: President's Press Conference 4.23.93 THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary ______________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release April 23, 1993 PRESS CONFERENCE BY THE PRESIDENT The East Room 1:00 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: Terry, do you have a question? Q Mr. President, there's a growing feeling that the Western response to bloodshed in Bosnia has been woefully inadequate. Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel asked you yesterday to do something, anything to stop the fighting. Is the United States considering taking unilateral action such as air strikes against Serb artillery sites? THE PRESIDENT: Well, first let me say, as you know, for more than a week now we have been seriously reviewing our options for further action. And I want to say, too, let's look at the last three months. Since I became President I have worked with our allies and we have tried to move forward, first on the no-fly zone, on enforcement of it, on the humanitarian airdrops, on the war crimes investigation, on getting the Bosnian Muslims involved in the peace process. We have made some progress. And now we have a very much tougher sanctions resolution. And Leon Fuerth, who is the National Security Advisor to the Vice President, is in Europe now working on implementing that. That is going to make a big difference to Serbia. And we are reviewing other options. I think we should act. We should lead -- the United States should lead. We have led for the last three months. We have moved the coalition. And to be fair, our allies in Europe have been willing to do their part. And they have troops on the ground there. But I do not think we should act alone, unilaterally, nor do I think we will have to. And in the next several days I think we will finalize the extensive review which has been going on and which has taken a lot of my time, as well as the time of the administration, as it should have, over the last 10 days or so. I think we'll finish that in the near future and then we'll have a policy and we'll announce it and everybody can evaluate it. Q Can I follow up? THE PRESIDENT: Sure. Q Do you see any parallel between the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and the Holocaust? THE PRESIDENT: I think the Holocaust is on a whole different level. I think it is without precedent or peer in human history. On the other hand, ethnic cleansing is the kind of inhumanity that the Holocaust took to the nth degree. The idea of moving people around and abusing them and often killing them solely because of their ethnicity is an abhorrent thing. And it is especially troublesome in that area where people of different ethnic groups live side by side for so long together. And I think you have to stand up against it. I think it's wrong. We were talking today about all of the other troubles in that region. I was happy to see the violence between the Croats and the Muslims in Bosnia subside this morning, and I think we're making progress on that front. But what's going on with the Serbians and the ethnic cleansing is qualitatively different than the other conflicts, both within the former Yugoslavia and in other parts of the region. Q Mr. President, by any count, you have not had a good week in your presidency. The tragedy in Waco, the defeat of your stimulus bill, the standoff in Bosnia. What did you do wrong and what are you going to do differently? How do you look at things? Are you reassessing? (Laughter.) THE PRESIDENT: I don't really believe that the situation in Bosnia -- it's not been a good week for the world, but I don't know that the administration could have made it different. On the stimulus package, I'd like to put it into the larger context and remind you that in this 100 days we have already fundamentally changed the direction of an American government. We have abandoned trickle-down economics. We've abandoned the policies that brought the debt of this country from $1 trillion to $4 trillion in only a decade. The budget plan, which passed the Congress, which will reduce the deficit and increase investment, has led to a 20-year low in mortgage rates, dramatically lower interest rates. There are probably people in this room who have refinanced their home mortgages in the last three months, or who have had access to cheaper credit. That's going to put tens of billion dollars coursing throughout this economy in ways that are very, very good for the country. And so we are moving in the right direction economically. I regret that the stimulus did not pass, and I have begun to ask -- and will continue to ask not only people in the administration, but people in the Congress whether there is something I could have done differently to pass that. Part of the reason it didn't pass was politics; part of it was a difference in ideas. There are really people still who believe that it's not needed. I just disagree with that. I think the recovery -- the economists say it's been underway for about two years, and we've still had 16 months of seven- percent unemployment, and all the wealthy countries are having trouble creating jobs. So I think there was an idea base -- an argument there, that while we're waiting for the lower interest rates and the deficit reduction and the investments of the next four years to take effect, this sort of supplemental appropriation should go forward. Now, I have to tell you, I did misgauge that because a majority of the Republican senators now sitting in the Senate voted for a similar stimulus when Ronald Reagan was President in 1983, and voted 28 times for regular supplemental appropriations like this. I just misgauged it. And I hope that I can learn something. I've just been here 90 days. And, you know, I was a Governor working with a contentious legislature for 12 years, and it took me a decade to get political reform there. So it takes time to change things. But I basically feel very good about what's happened in the first 100 days with regard to the Congress. Q Waco -- THE PRESIDENT: Well, with regard to Waco I don't have much to add to what I've already said. I think it is a -- I want the situation looked into. I want us to bring in people who have any insights to bear on that. I think it's very important that the whole thing be thoroughly gone over. But I still maintain what I said from the beginning, that the offender there was David Koresh. And I do not think the United States government is responsible for the fact that a bunch of fanatics decided to kill themselves. And I'm sorry that they killed their children. Q Mr. President, to follow up partly on Helen on your stimulus package and on your political approach to Capitol Hill, Ross Perot said today that you're playing games with the American people in your tax policy. He was strongly critical of your stimulus package. He said he's going to launch an advertising campaign against the North American Free Trade Agreement. How are you going to handle his political criticism? Will it complicate your efforts on the Hill with your economic plan? And do you plan to repackage some of the things that have been in your stimulus program and try to resubmit them to the Hill? THE PRESIDENT: Let me answer that question first. We're going to revisit all of that over the next few days. I'm going to be talking to members of Congress and to others to see what we can do about that. With regard to the economic plan, I must say I found that rather amazing. I don't want to get into an argument with Mr. Perot. I'll be interested to hear what his specifics are, but I would -- go back and read his book and his plan. There's a remarkable convergence except that we have more specific budget cuts, we raise taxes less on the middle class and more on the wealthy. But, otherwise, the plans are remarkably similar. So I think it would be -- I'll be interested to see if maybe perhaps he's changed his position from his book last year and he has some new ideas to bring to bear. I'll be glad to hear them. Q To follow up, sir, how do you plan to handle his political criticism? He's launched a campaign against you. Do you think you can sit back and just -- THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I will ask you to apply the same level of scrutiny to him as you do to me. And if he's changed his position from the positions he took in the campaign last year, then we need to know why and what his ideas are. Maybe he's got some constructive ideas. I think the American people have shown that they're very impatient with people who don't want to produce results. And the one thing I think that everybody has figured out about me in the last -- even if they don't agree with what I do -- is that I want to get something done. I just came here to try to change things. I want to do things. And I want to do things that help people's lives. So my judgment is that if he makes a suggestion that is good, that is constructive, that takes us beyond some idea I've proposed that will change people's lives for the better, fine. But I think that that ought to be the test that we apply to everyone who weighs into this debate and not just to the President. Q Mr. President, to go back to Bosnia for a minute. You continue to insist that this has to be multilateral action, a criteria that seems to have hamstrung us when it comes to many options thus far and makes it look as if this is a state of paralysis. The United States is the last remaining superpower. Why is it not appropriate in this situation for the United States to act unilaterally? THE PRESIDENT: Well, the United States -- surely you would agree, that the United States, even as the last remaining superpower, has to act consistent with international law under some mandate of the United Nations. Q But you have a mandate and -- THE PRESIDENT: They do, and that is one of the things that we have under review. I haven't ruled out any option for action. I would remind all of you, I have not ruled out any option, except that we have not discussed and we are not considering the introduction of American forces into continuing hostilities there. We are not. So we are reviewing other options. But I also would remind you that, to be fair, our allies have had -- the French, the British and the Canadians -- have had troops on the ground there. They have been justifiably worried about those. But they have supported the airdrops, the toughening of the sanctions. They welcomed the American delegation now in Europe, working on how to make these sanctions really work and really bite against Serbia. And I can tell you that the other nations involved are also genuinely reassessing their position, and I would not rule out the fact that we can reach an agreement for a concerted action that goes beyond where we have been. I don't have any criticism of the British, the French and others about that. Q Would that be military action? Q Mr. President, several of the leading lights in your administration, ranging from your FBI Director to your U.N. Ambassador, to your Deputy Budget Director to your Health Services Secretary, have issued statements in the last couple of weeks which are absolutely contradictory to some of the positions you've taken in your administration. Why is that? Are you losing your political grip? THE PRESIDENT: Give me an example. Q Example? Judge Sessions said that there was no child abuse in Waco. Madeleine Albright has said in this morning's newspapers, at least, that she favors air strikes in Bosnia. All of these are things you said that you didn't support. THE PRESIDENT: First of all, I don't know what -- we know that David Koresh had sex with children. I think that is undisputed, is it not? Is it not? Does anybody dispute that? Where I come from that qualifies as child abuse. And we know that he had people teaching these kids how to kill themselves. I think that qualifies as abuse. And I'm not criticizing Judge Sessions because I don't know exactly what he said. In terms of Madeleine Albright, Madeleine Albright has made no public statement at all about air strikes. There is a press report that she wrote me a confidential letter in which she expressed her -- or memo -- in which she expressed her views about the new direction we should take in response to my request to all the senior members of my administration to let me know what they thought we ought to do next. And I have heard from her and from others about what they think we ought to do next. And I'm not going to discuss the recommendations they made to me, but in the next few days when I make a decision about what to do, then I will announce what I'm going to do. So I wouldn't say that either one of those examples qualifies speaking out of school. Q How about the Value Added Tax, Mr. President? THE PRESIDENT: What was that? Q The Value Added Tax -- Mrs. Rivlin and Miss Shalala both said that they thought that that was a good idea. THE PRESIDENT: I don't mind them saying they think it's a good idea. There are all kinds of arguments for it on policy grounds. That does not mean that we have decided to incorporate it in the health care debate. No decision has been made on that. And I have no objection to their expressing their views on that. We've had a lot of people from business and labor come to us saying that they thought that tax would help make their particular industries more competitive in the global economy. I took no -- that wasn't taking a line against an administration policy. Q Mr. President, a week ago a group of gay and lesbian representatives came out of a meeting with you and expressed in the most ringing terms, their confidence in your understanding of them and their political aspirations, and their belief that you would fulfill those aspirations. Do you feel now that you will be able to meet their now enhanced expectations? THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't know about that. And I don't know what their -- it depends on what the expectations are. But I'll tell you this: I believe that this country's policies should be heavily biased in favor of nondiscrimination. I believe when you tell people they can't do certain things in this country that other people can do, there ought to be an overwhelming and compelling reason for it. I believe we need the services of all of our people, and I have said that consistently. And not as a political proposition. The first time this issue came up was in 1991 when I was in Boston. I was just asked the question about it. And I might add -- it's interesting that I have been attacked -- obviously, those who disagree with me here are primarily coming from the political right in America. When I was Governor, I was attacked from the other direction for sticking up for the rights of religious fundamentalists to run their child care centers and to practice home schooling under appropriate safeguards. I just have always had an almost libertarian view that we should try to protect the rights of American individual citizens to live up to the fullest of their capacities, and I'm going to stick right with that. Q Are you concerned, sir, that you may have generated expectations on their end and criticism among others that has hamstrung your administration in the sense of far too great emphasis on this issue? THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but I have not placed a great deal of emphasis on it. It's gotten a lot of emphasis in other quarters and in the press. I've just simply taken my position and tried to see it through. And that's what I do. It doesn't take a lot of my time as President to say what I believe in and what I intend to do, and that's what I'll continue to do. Q Mr. President, getting back to the situation in Bosnia -- and we understand you haven't made any final decisions on new options previously considered unacceptable. But the two most commonly heard options would be lifting the arms embargo to enable the Bosnian Muslims to defend themselves and to initiate some limited air strikes, perhaps, to cut off supply lines. Without telling us your decision -- presumably, you haven't made any final decisions on those two options -- what are the pros and cons that are going through your mind right now and will weigh heavily on your final decision? THE PRESIDENT: I'm reluctant to get into this. There are -- those are two of the options. There are some other options that have been considered. All have pluses and minuses; all have supporters and opponents within the administration and in the Congress, where, I would remind you, heavy consultations will be required to embark on any new policy. I do believe that on the air strike issue, the pronouncements that General Powell has made generally about military action, apply there. If you take action, if the United States takes action, we must have a clearly-defined objective that can be met. We must be able to understand it and its limitations must be clear. The United States is not, should not, become involved as a partisan in a war. With regard to the lifting of the arms embargo, the question obviously there is if you widen the capacity of people to fight will that help to get a settlement and bring about peace? Will it lead to more bloodshed? What kind of reaction can others have that would undermine the effectiveness of the policy? But I think both of them deserve some serious consideration, along with some other options we have. Q Do you think that these people who are trying to get us into war in Bosnia are really remembering that we haven't taken care of hundreds of thousands of veterans from the last war and we couldn't take care of our prisoners and get them all home from Vietnam? And now many of them are coming up with bills for treatment of Agent Orange. How can we afford to go to any more of these wars? THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that's a good argument against the United States itself becoming involved as a belligerent in a war there. But we are, after all, the world's only super power. We do have to lead the world and there is a very serious problem of systematic ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, which could have not only enormous further humanitarian consequences -- and goodness knows there have been many -- but also could have other practical consequences in other nearby regions where the same sorts of ethnic tensions exist. Q Did you make any kind of agreement with Boris Yeltsin to hold off either on air strikes or any kind of aggressive action against the Serbs until after Sunday? And in general, how has his political situation affected your deliberation on Bosnia? THE PRESIDENT: No, I have not made any agreement, and he did not ask for that. We never even discussed that, interestingly enough. The Russians, I would remind you, in the middle of President Yeltsin's campaign, abstained from our attempt to get tougher sanctions through the United Nations in what I thought was the proper decision for them and one that the United States and, I'm sure, the rest of the free world very much appreciated. Q Do you wish, Mr. President, that you'd become more involved in the planning of the Waco operation? And how would you handle that situation differently now? THE PRESIDENT: I don't think as a practical matter that the President should become involved in the planning of those kinds of things at that detail. One of the things that I'm sure will come out when we look into this is -- the questions will be asked and answered, did all of us who up the line of command ask the questions we should have asked and get the answers we should have gotten? And I look forward to that. But at the time, I have to say, as I did before, the first thing I did after the ATF agents were killed, once we knew that the FBI was going to go in, was to ask that the military be consulted because of the quasi, as least, military nature of the conflict given the resources that Koresh had in his compound and their obvious willingness to use them. And then on the day before the action, I asked the questions of the Attorney General which I have reported to you previously, and which at the time I thought were sufficient. I have -- as I said, I'm sure -- I leave it to others to make the suggestions about whether there are other questions I should have asked. Q Mr. President, what is your assessment of Director Sessions' role in the Waco affair? And have you made a decision on his future? And if you haven't, will you give him a personal hearing before you do decide? THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I have no assessment of his role since I had no direct contact with him. And I mean no negative or positive inference. I have no assessment there. I stand by what I said before about my general high regard for the FBI. And I'm waiting for a recommendation from the Attorney General about what to do with the direction of the FBI. Q Mr. President, since you said that one side in Bosnia conflict represents inhumanity that the Holocaust carried to the nth degree, why do you then tell us that the United States cannot take a partisan view in this war? THE PRESIDENT: Well, I said that the principle of ethnic cleansing is something we ought to stand up against. That does not mean that the United States or the United Nations can enter a war, in effect, to redraw the lines, geographical lines of republics within what was Yugoslavia, or that that would ultimately be successful. I think what the United States has to do is to try to figure out whether there is some way consistent with forcing the people to resolve their own difficulties we can stand up to and stop ethnic cleansing. And that is obviously the difficulty we are wrestling with. This is clearly the most difficult foreign policy problem we face, and that all of our allies face. And if it were easy, I suppose it would have been solved before. We have tried to do more in the last 90 days than was previously done. It has clearly not been enough to stop the Serbian aggression, and we are now looking at what else we can do. Q Yesterday you specifically criticized the Roosevelt administration for not having bombed the railroads to the concentration camps and things that were near military targets. Aren't there steps like that that would not involve conflict --direct conflict or partisan belligerence that you might consider? THE PRESIDENT: There may be. I would remind you that the circumstances were somewhat different. We were then at war with Germany at the time and that's what made that whole incident so -- series of incidents -- so perplexing. But we have -- as I say, we've got all of our options under review. Q The diplomatic initiative on Haiti is on the verge of collapse. What can you do to salvage it short of a full-scale military operation? THE PRESIDENT: Well, you may know something I don't. That's not what our people tell me. I think Mr. Caputo and Ambassador Pezzullo have done together a good job. The thing keeps going back and forth because of the people who are involved with the de facto government there. It's obvious what their concerns are. They were the same concerns that led to the ouster of Aristide in the first place, and President Aristide, we feel, should be restored to power. We're working toward that. I get a report on that -- we discuss it at least three times a week, and I'm convinced that we're going to prevail there and be successful. I do believe that there's every reason to think that there will have to be some sort of multilateral presence to try to guarantee the security and the freedom from violence of people on both sides of the ledger while we try to establish the conditions of ongoing civilized society. But I believe we're going to prevail there. Q Mr. President, would you care to make your assessment of the first 100 days before we make one for you? (Laughter.) THE PRESIDENT: Well, I'll say if -- I believe, first of all, we passed the budget resolution in record time. That was the biggest issue. That confirmed the direction of the administration and confirmed the commitments of the campaign that we could both bring the deficit down and increase investment, and that we could do it by specific spending cuts and by raising taxes, almost all of which come from the highest income people in this society --reversing a 12-year trend in which most of the tax burdens were borne by the middle class, whose incomes were going down when their taxes were going up, while the deficit went from $1 trillion to $4 trillion, the total national debt, and the deficit continued to go up. We have a 20-year low in interest rates from mortgages. We have lower interest rates across the board. We have tens of billions of dollars flooding back into this economy as people refinance their debt. We have established a new environmental policy, which is dramatically different. The Secretary of Education has worked with me and with others and with the governors to establish a new approach in education that focuses on tough standards, as well as increasing opportunity. We have done an enormous amount of work on political reform, on campaign finance and lobbying reform. And I have imposed tough ethics requirements on my own administration's officials. These things are consistent with not only what I said I'd do in the campaign, but with turning the country around. The Vice President is heading a task force which will literally change the way the federal government operates and make it much more responsive to the citizens of this country. We are working on a whole range of other things. The welfare reform initiative, to move people from welfare to work. And, of course, a massive amount of work has been done on the health care issue, which is a huge economic and personal security problem for millions of Americans. So I think it is amazing how much has been done. More will be done. We also passed the Family Leave bill. A version of the motor voter bill -- that has not come out of conference back to me yet. And everything has been passed except the stimulus program. So I think we're doing fine and we're moving in the right direction. I feel good about it. Q Sir, a follow-up. Wouldn't you say, though, that one of your biggest initiatives, aid to Soviet Russia, is now practically finished -- if we can't pass a stimulus bill in our own country, how can we do it for them? THE PRESIDENT: Let me recast the question a little bit. It's a good question -- (laughter) -- it's a good question, but to be fair we've got to recast it. We have already -- the first round of aid to the Soviet -- to non-Soviet Russia, to a democratic Russia, is plainly going to go through, the first $1.6 billion. The aid that we agreed with our partners in the G-7 to provide through the international financial institutions, which is a big dollar item, is plainly going to go through. The question is, can we get any more aid for Russia that requires a new appropriation by the United States Congress? And that is a question I think, Mary, that will be resolved in the weeks ahead, in part by what happens to the American workers and their jobs and their future. I think the two things will be tied by many members of Congress. Q The tailhook report came out this morning, documenting horrendous and nearly-criminal conduct on the part of the Navy. How much did you discuss the incident and what might be done about it with your nominee to be the Secretary of the Navy? THE PRESIDENT: First, let me comment a little on that. The Inspector General's report details conduct which is wrong and which has no place in the armed services. And I expect the report to be acted on in the appropriate way. I also want to say to the American people and to all of you that the report should be taken for what it is, a very disturbing list of allegations which will have to be thoroughly examined. It should not be taken as a general indictment of the United States Navy or of all the fine people who serve there. It is very specific in its allegations, and it will be pursued. The only thing I said to the Secretary-Designate of the Navy and the only thing I should have said to him, I think, is that I expected him to take the report and to do his duty. And I believe he will do that. Q Mr. President, to back to Russia for just a minute. The latest poll show that Mr. Yeltsin will probably win his vote of confidence. But there seems to be a real toss-up on whether or not voters are going to endorse his economic reforms. THE PRESIDENT: I understand that. Q Can you live with a split -- (laughter) -- can you live with a split decision, though, or do you need both passed in order to then build support for Russian aid? THE PRESIDENT: I believe -- the answer to your question is, for the United States, the key question should be that which is posed to any democracy, which is who wins the election. If he wins the election, if he is ratified by the Russian people to continue as their President, then I think we should do our best to work with him toward reform. You know, we had a lot of other countries here for the Holocaust Museum dedication -- their leaders were here. Leaders from Eastern Europe, leaders from at least one republic of the former Soviet Union; all of them having terrible economic challenges as they convert from a communist command and control economy to a market economy in a world where there's economic slowdown everywhere. And in a world in which there's economic slowdown and difficulty, all leaders will have trouble having their policies be popular in a poll because they haven't produced the results that the people so earnestly yearn for. You can understand that. But if they have confidence in the leadership, I think that's all we can ask. And the United States will -- if the Russian people ratify him as their President and stick with him then the United States will continue to work with him. I think he is a genuine democrat -- small d -- and genuinely committed to reform. I think that we should support that. Q Mr. President, Mr. Perot has come out strongly in what is perceived behind the line against a free trade agreement -- NAFTA. How hard are you going to fight for this free trade agreement and when do you expect to see it accomplished? THE PRESIDENT: I think we'll have the agreement ready in the fairly near future. You know, our people are still working with the Mexican government and with the Canadians on the side agreements. We're trying to work out what the environmental agreement will say, what the labor agreement will say, and then what the fairest way to deal with enforcement is. The Mexicans say, and there is some merit to their position, that they're worried about transferring their sovereignty in enforcement to a multilateral commission. Even in the United States, to be fair, we have some folks who are worried about that -- about giving that up. On the other hand, if we're going to have an environmental agreement and a labor standards agreement that means something, then there has to be ultimately some consequences for violating them. So what we're trying to do is to agree on an approach which would say that if there is a pattern of violations -- if you keep on violating it past a certain point -- maybe not an isolated incident, but a pattern of violation -- there is going to be some enforcement. There must be consequences. And we're working out the details of that. But I still feel quite good about it. And this is just an area where I disagree with Mr. Perot and with others. I think that we will win big if we have a fair agreement that integrates more closely the Mexican economy and the American economy and leads us from there to Chile to other market economies in Latin America, and gives us a bigger world in which to trade. I think that's the only way a rich country can grow richer. If you look at what Japan and other countries in the Pacific are doing to reach out in their own region, it's a pretty good lesson to us that we had better worry about how to build those bridges in our own area. So this is an idea battle. You know, you've got a lot of questions and I want to answer them all, but let me say not every one of these things can be distilled simply into politics -- you know, who's for this and who's for that, and if this person is for this, somebody else has got to be for that. A lot of these things honestly involved real debates over ideas, over who's right and wrong about the world toward which we're moving. And the answers are not self-evident. And one of the reasons that I wanted to run for President is I wanted to sort of open the floodgates for debating these ideas so that we could try to change in the appropriate way. So I just have a difference of opinion. I believe that the concept of NAFTA is sound, even though, as you know, I thought that the details needed to be improved. Q Mr. President, there was a tremendous flurry of interest earlier this month in the Russian document that purported to show that the Vietnamese had held back American prisoners. General Vessey has now said publicly that while the document itself was authentic, he believes that it was incorrect. Do you have a personal view at this point about that issue? And more broadly, do you believe that, in fact, the Vietnamese did return all the American prisoners at the time of the Paris Peace Accord? THE PRESIDENT: First let me say, I saw General Vessey before he went to Vietnam and after he returned. And I have a high regard for him and I appreciate his willingness to serve his country in this way. As to whether the document had any basis in fact, let me say that the government of Vietnam was more forthcoming than it had been in the past and gave us some documents that would tend to undermine the validity of the Russian documents claim. I do not know whether that is right or wrong. We are having it basically evaluated at this time, and when we complete the evaluation, we'll tell you. And, of course, we want to tell the families of those who were missing in action or who were POWs. I think that we'll be able to make some progress in eliminating some of the questions about the outstanding cases as a result of this last interchange, but I cannot say that I'm fully satisfied that we know all that we need to know. There are still some cases that we don't know the answer to. But I do believe we're making some progress. I was encouraged by the last trip. Q I'd like to follow up on that. Before the U.S. normalizes relations, allows trade to go forward, do you have to be personally sure that every case has been resolved or would you be willing to go forward on the basis that while it may take years to resolve these cases, the Vietnamese have made sufficient offerings to us to confirm good faith? THE PRESIDENT: A lot of experts say you can never resolve every case, every one, that we couldn't resolve all the cases for them and that there are still some cases that have not been factually resolved, going back to the Second World War. But what I would have to be convinced of is that we had gone a long way toward resolving every case that could be resolved at this moment in time, and that there was a complete, open and unrestricted commitment to continue to do everything that could be done always to keep resolving those cases. And we're not there yet. Again, I have to be guided a little bit by people who know a lot about this. And I confess to being much more heavily influenced by the families of the people whose lives were lost there, or whose lives remain in question than by the commercial interest and the other things which seem so compelling in this moment. I just am very influenced by how the families feel. Q your economic stimulus package, are you doing some kind of reality check now and scaling back some of your plans, your legislative plans for the coming year, including the crime bill, the health care initiative and other things? Are there any plans to do that? And also, did you underestimate the power of Senator Bob Dole? THE PRESIDENT: No, what I underestimated was the extent to which what I thought was a fairly self-evident case, particularly after we stayed below the spending caps approved by this Congress, including the Republicans who were in this Congress last year -- when we had already passed a budget resolution which called for over $500 billion in deficit reduction. When they had voted repeatedly for supplemental appropriations to help foreign governments, I thought at least four of them would vote to break cloture, and I underestimated that. I did not have an adequate strategy of dealing with that. I also thought that if I made a good-faith effort to negotiate and to compromise, that it would not be rebuffed. Instead, every time I offered something they reduced the offer that they had previously been talking to the Majority Leader about. So it was a strange set of events. But I think what happened was what was a significant part of our plan, but not the major part of it, acquired a political connotation that got out of proportion to the merits, so that a lot of Republicans were saying to me privately, ""Mr. President, I'd like to be for this, but I can't now. And we're all strung out and we're divided."" And I think we need to do a reality check. As I said, what I want to know -- let me go back to what I said -- what I want to know from our folks and from our friends in the Senate on -- and Republicans or Democrats -- is what could I have done differently to make it come out differently. Because the real losers here were not the President and the administration. The real losers were the hundreds of thousands of people who won't have jobs now. We could have put another 700,000 kids to work this summer. I mean, we could have done a lot of good things with that money. And I think that is very, very sad. And it became more political than it should have. But the underlying rationale I don't think holds a lot of water -- that it was deficit spending. That just won't wash. Q and redo -- THE PRESIDENT: No. I mean, you know, for example --you mentioned the crime bill. I think it would be a real mistake not to pass the crime bill. I mean, the crime bill was almost on the point of passage last year. And they were all fighting over the Brady Bill. Surely, surely after what we have been through in this country just in the last three months, with the kind of mindless violence we have seen, we can pass a bill requiring people to go through a waiting period before they buy a handgun. And surely we can see that we need more police officers on the street. That's another thing that -- I really believe that once we move some of that money -- not all, but some of it up into this jobs package to make some of the jobs rehiring police officers on the street who'd been laid off, that would be a compelling case. I mean people are scared in this country and I think we need to go forward. I feel very strongly that we need to go forward on the crime bill. Q Mr. President, back to the tailhook report for a second. That report contained very strong criticism of the Navy's senior leadership in general, but did not name any of the senior officers. Do you believe that the senior officers who are implicated in this, including Admiral Kelso who was there one night in Las Vegas, should they be disciplined and do you believe the public has a right to know the names of the senior officers? THE PRESIDENT: You should know that under the rules of law which apply to this, I am in the chain of command. There is now an Inspector General's report and the law must take its course. If I were to answer that question I might prejudice any decisions which might be later made in this case. I don't really think -- I think all I can tell you is what I have already said. I was very disturbed by the specific allegations in the Inspector General's report, and I want appropriate action to be taken. Until the proper procedures have a chance to kick in and appropriate action is taken, I have been advised that because I am the Commander-in-Chief I have to be very careful about what I say so as not to prejudice the rights of anybody against whom any action might proceed or to prejudice the case in any other way either pro or con. So I can't say any more except to say that I want this thing handled in an appropriate and thorough way. Q Mr. President, could I ask you for a clarification on Bosnia? You said that you were not considering introduction of American forces. Does that include any air forces as well as ground forces, sir? THE PRESIDENT: I said ground forces. Q You said ground forces. Could I ask you, sir, if you fear that using U.S. air strikes might draw the United States into a ground war there? THE PRESIDENT: I just don't want to discuss our evaluation of the options anymore. I've told you that there's never been a serious discussion in this country about the introduction of ground forces into an ongoing conflict there. Q With hundreds of thousands of gays in Washington this weekend for the march, did you ever reconsider your decision to leave town for this weekend? Did you ever consider in any way participating in some of the activities? THE PRESIDENT: No. Q Why not? THE PRESIDENT: Because I -- and, basically, I wouldn't participate in other marches. I think once you become President, on balance, except under unusual circumstances, that is not what should be done. But more importantly, I'm going to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, a trip that presumably most of you would want me to make, to try to focus anew on what I think are the fundamental issues at stake for our country right now. And I expect that I will say something about the fact that a lot of Americans have come here, asking for a climate that is free of discrimination; asking, basically, to be able to work hard and live by the rules and be treated like other American citizens if they do that, and just that. And that's always been my position -- not only for the gays who will be here, but for others as well. Thank you very much. END1:48 P.M. EDT ",18 "For Sale: IBM Wheelwriter 6 I just won an IBM Wheelwriter 6 typewriter in a raffle here on campus. Since I have a nice computer, and really need the cash, I'm putting it up for sale. I have an offer from a local reseller for $250. Best offer above that plus shipping. ...brian Northwestern University - Economics & International Studies b-olson@nwu.edu Brian David Olson bdolson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu bdolson@cica.es bdolson@merle.acns.nwu.edu bdolson@sevaxu.cica.es ",6 "Re: Homosexuality issues in Christiani The cited passages are covered IN DEPTH in a FAQ for this group. That particular FAQ (I've forgotten the author) discusses the traditional vs. pro-homosexual interpretations of the passages and indicates which points have strong textual support. Perhaps the moderator might give again the instructions for retrieving the FAQ on this topic? BTW, this issue, while dealt with before, is VERY timely. One of the major Presbyterian churches in California (St. Andrews -- a MegaChurch in a rich neighborhood) is withholding their support of Synod (amounts to about 10% of the budget of the Synod, which covers all of Southern CA and Hawaii) until support for a pro-homosexual lobbying group (the Lazarus Project) is terminated. [This came from a news report on CNN yesterday -- corrections welcome.] Tim [I think it's time for me to post the FAQ. This is an issue throughout the Presbyterian Church. On the other side, one of the major churches in Cincinnati has been ordaining homosexual elders, and has ignored Presbytery instructions not to do so. And the church in Rochester where the judicial commission said they couldn't install a homosexual pastor has made her an ""evangelist"". These situations, as well as the one you describe, do not appear to be stable. This will certainly be a major topic for the General Assembly next month. If the church can't come up with a solution that will let people live with each other, I think we're end up with a split. Clearly neither side wants that, but I think we'll get pushed into it by actions of both sides. --clh] ",15 "Zionist leaders' frank statements From: Center for Policy Research Subject: Zionist leaders' frank statements The following are quotations from Zionist leaders. They appear in numerous scholarly works dealing with the Palestine question. I urge those who have access to original sources, to verify the authenticity of the source and post here their finding, adhering to the truth whatever it be. Thanks. Elias Davidsson ------------------------------ Quotations from Zionist leaders 1. ""There was no such thing as Palestinians"" (Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel, London Sunday Times, 15 June 1969) 2. ""There is, however, a difficulty from which the Zionist dares not avert his eyes, though he rarely likes to face it. Palestine proper has already its inhabitants."" (Israel Zangwill, The Voice of Jerusalem, London 1920, p.88) 3. ""When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle."" (Raphael Eitan, Israeli Chief of Staff, New York Times, 14 April 1983) 4. ""[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs."" (Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel in a speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, 'Begin and the ""Beasts"", New Statesman, 25 June 1982) 5. ""Both the process of expropriation [of the Palestinians] and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly"". (Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press, 1960, I., p.88) 6. ""Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both people together in this country...The only solution is a Palestine.....without Arabs. And there is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer all of them; not one village, not one tribe, should be left."" (Joseph Weitz, Jewish National Fund, administrator responsible for Zionist colonization. Davar, 29 September 1967). 7.""We shall try to spirit the penniless population [the Palestinians] across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country"" (Theodor Herzl, The Complete Diaries, Herzl Press, 1960, I, p.88) 8. ""[Zionists]...looked for means...to cause the tens of thousands of sulky Arabs who remained in the Galilee to flee...I gathered all the Jewish muktars, who have contact with Arabs in different villages and asked them to whisper in the ears of some Arabs that a great Jewish reinforcement has arrived in Galilee and that it is going to burn all of the villages of the Huleh. They should suggest to these Arabs, as their friends, to escape while there is still time....The tactic reached its goal....wide areas were cleaned."" (Yig'al Alon, Sepher Ha Palmach, in Hebrew, II. p.268, quoted in Khalidi, From Haven to Conquest, IPS, 1971). 10. ""[Jews] must expel Arabs and take their place"" (David Ben Gurion, 1937, quoted in Shabtai Teveth, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985, p. 89) 11. ""We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return"" (David Ben Gurion, in his diary, 19 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar, Ben Gurion: The Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p.157) 12. ""The country was mostly an empty desert, with only a few islands of Arab settlement"" (Shimon Peres, Minister of Defense, quoted in David's Sling: The Arming of Israel, Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1970, p.249) 13. ""All this story about the danger of extermination [of Jews] has been blown up....to justify the annexation of new Arab territories"" (Mordechai Bentov, Israeli Cabinet Minister, Al Hamishmar, 14 April 1972) 14. ""Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat"" (Yitzhak Shamir, Hehazit, Summer 1943 [Journal of the LEHI, the Stern Gang], translated from the Israeli daily Al-Hamishmar, 24 December 1987 14. ""The domination of Jewish agriculture by Arab workers is a cancer in our body"" (A. Uzan, Israeli Minister of Agriculture, Ha'aretz, 13 December 1974) 15. ""There can be only one national home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs"" (Montague David Eder, President of the Zionist Federation of Great Britain, 1931, in Doreen Ingrams, comp., Palestine Papers 1917-1922, Seeds of Conflict, George Braziller, 1973, p. 135) 16. ""I hope that the Jewish frontiers of Palestine will be as great as Jewish energy for getting Palestine"" (Dr. Chaim Weizmann, first President of the State of Israel, Excerpts from His Historic Statements, Writings and Addresses, Jewish Agency for Palestine, 1952, p.48) 17. ""There is not a single Jewish village in this country that has not been built on the site of an Arab village"" (Moshe Dayan, Ha'aretz, 4 April 1969...) 18. ""Some people talk of expelling 700,000 to 800,000 Arabs in the event of a new war, and instruments have been prepared"" (Aharon Yariv, former chief of Israeli military intelligence, 1980, Inquiry, 8 December 1980) 19. ""If I was an Arab leader I would never make [peace] with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country."" (David Ben Gurion, in Nahum Goldmann, The Jewish Paradox, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p.99) 20. ""We should there [in Palestine] form a portion of the rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism."" (Dr. Theodor Herzl, The Jewish State, London, 1896, p. 29) 21. ""I deeply believe in launching preventive war against the Arab States without further hesitation. By doing so we will achieve two targets: firstly, the annihilation of Arab power; and secondly, the expansion of our territory"" (Menachem Begin, in a speech to the Knesset, 12 October 1955) 22. ""During the last 100 years our people have been in a process of building up the country and the nation, of expansion, of getting additional Jews and additional settlements in order to expand the borders here. Let no Jew say that the process has ended. Let no Jew say that we are near the end of the road."" (Moshe Dayan, Ma'ariv, 7 July 1968) 23. ""Until the British left, no Jewish settlement, however remote, was entered or seized by the Arabs, while the Haganah, under severe and frequent attack, captured many Arab positions and liberated Tiberias and Haifa, Jaffa and Safad"" (David Ben Gurion, Rebirth and Destiny of Israel, Philosophical Library, 1954, p.530) 24. ""In the months preceding the Arab invasion [of 1948], and while the five Arab states were conducting preparations, we continued to make sallies into Arab territory. The conquest of Jaffa stands out as an event of first-rate importance in the struggle for Hebrew independence early in May, on the eve of the invasion by the five Arab states."" (Menachem Begin, The Revolt, Nash, 1972, p.348) 25. ""What the French could do in Tunisia, I said, the Jews would be able to do in Palestine with Jewish will, Jewish money, Jewish power and Jewish enthusiasm"" (Dr. Chaim Weizmann, First President of the State of Israel, Trial and Error, Harper, 1949, p.244) 26. ""I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai on May 14 [1967] would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it."" (Yitzhak Rabin, Le Monde, 29 February 1968) 27. ""To pretend that the Egyptian forces massed on our frontiers [in 1967] were in position to threaten the existence of Israel constitutes an insult not only to the intelligence of anyone capable of analyzing this sort of situation, but above all an insult to the Zahal [Israeli army]"" (General Res. Matti Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972) 28. ""when we have broken the strength of the Arab Legion and bombarded Amman, we would wipe out Transjordan; after that Syria would fall....we would thus end the war, and would have put paid to Egypt, Assyria and Chaldea on behalf of our ancestors"" (David Ben Gurion in his diaries, quoted in Michael Bar- Zohar, The Armed Prophet, A Biography of Ben-Gurion, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p.139) 29. ""These Jews of the Diaspora would like to see us, for their own reasons, heroes with our backs to the wall. But this wish can in no way change the realities."" (Israeli General Ezer Weizmann, Le Monde, 3 June 1972) 30. ""Let us not today fling accusations at the [Palestinian Arab] murderers. Who are we that we should argue against their hatred ? For eight years now they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their very eyes, we turn into our homestead the land and the villages in which they and their forefathers have lived. We are a generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and the cannon we cannot plant a tree and build a home. Let us not shrink back when we see the hatred fermenting and filling the lives of hundreds of thousands of Arabs, who sit all around us. Let us not avert our gaze, so that our hand shall not slip. This is the fate of our generation, the choice of our life - to be prepared and armed, strong and tough - or otherwise, the sword will slip from our first, and our life will be snuffed out."" (Moshe Dayan, eulogy of Roy Rutenberg at Kibbutz Nahal Oz, 1956, quoted in Uri Avneri, Israel without Zionists, Collier Books, Macmillan, New York, 1971, p.154) ",17 "Re: A Message for you Mr. President: How do you know what happened? royc@rbdc.wsnc.org (Roy Crabtree) writes: >In article keng@den.mmc.com (Ken Garrido) writes: >[lotsa stuff taken out] >Bottom line: due process was not served. No peaceful attempt to serve >a warrant occurred. The peaceful attempt to serve the warrant was met with gunfire. Due process was not served because the Branch Davidians wanted it that way. *You* think on that. >royc -- ""Milk is for babies; when you're a man, you drink beer"" - Arnold Ken Garrido (that's guh-REED-oh) Miserable ASM8086 and C hack. email: keng@tunfaire.den.mmc.com *or* KENNETH.GARRIDO@filebank.com ",19 "AP rifles? I just read a clari article about how, among the other weapons the BD had purched, they had two ""Barrett 50-caliber armor-piercing rifles."" How the hell do you use an armor-piercing rifle? Run up to a tank and try to stab it? Once again, ignorance prevails amongst the media . . . aaron arc@cco.caltech.edu ",16 "Re: Are Americans sexually repressed? In article <1993Apr16.174605.21907@a.cs.okstate.edu>, kennejs@a.cs.okstate.edu (KENNEDY JAMES SCOT) writes: # Recent studies have shown that the number of men who have # engaged in homosexual activities in the last decade is 2.3% # and the number of men who are exclusively homosexual is 1.1%. # These figures are much less than those that came from earlier # studies that showed that homosexuality among men is a lot # higher. # # So, what can we deduce from these figures? Are there a lot # less male homosexuals than there used to be or are men # (perhaps women too) not as honest as they used to be about # there sexuality? Presumably, the people that were polled in You mean, in the 1940s, men and women were much more open about their homosexuality than today? Want to try that one again? # this survey were assured of their anonymnity so they should # have answered the questions honestly I suppose. However, it # could be that gays feel so repressed and denigrated by society # that they didn't feel that they could be forthcoming about there # sexuality in something like a survey. If this true then is it # possible that there is a lot more gays out there than we are led # to believe? # # Perhaps if Americans were more open about there sexuality---I think # most Americans aren't---then we might discover that there are really # quite a few more people out there who are orientated toward the same # sex---men and women included. I'd venture a guess that there is a # lot of people out there who have considered having a relationship # with someone of the same sex at some point in there life. Maybe they # didn't take their longings seriously, but this doesn't make these # longings any less valid. Therefore, if Americans weren't so # repressed about their sexuality in general---as I believe they may be # ---then we'd see a lot more people ""coming out of the closet"". You mean, ignore study after study, so that we can continue to accept a study (Kinsey's) that is obviously wrong? # As for myself, I'm a heterosexual and I've never considered having # sex with another man. That's just the way I am...I could have just # as easily of been gay I suppose. One of the big debates about # homosexuality is whether or not it's a type of behavior that is # learned or if one is just born that way. IMHO, the more likely # explanation is that it's some combination of the two. Based on what, besides your own warm fuzzy feelings? # Here's something to ponder upon: have any of you gay-bashers out # there ever considered that homosexuals probably deem their sexual # orientation as being a state of affairs that is just as much an # intrinsic and ""natural"" part of their life as heterosexuals do # about their own sexuality? In other words, someone who is *truly* Alcoholics share that feeling, until they hit bottom. # gay may not be able to live any other way. Even if they date someone # of the opposite sex or get married, in their *heart* they are still a # homosexual. Likewise, if someone who is *truly* heterosexual forms # a relationship with someone of the same sex, then they are *still* # a heterosexual even though outward appearances may suggest otherwise. # # Scott Kennedy, Brewer and Patriot Unless, of course, the problem is that homosexuality is a form of mental disorder, caused by childhood sexual abuse, as a number of recent works suggest. If homosexuals would stop using the government to impose their morality on others (antidiscrimination laws) and leave our children alone, I wouldn't care in the least what they did in private. But until they get over the liberal notion that the proper role of government is to tell peaceful people how to live, I have no choice but to continue to point out that homosexuality is not an ""alternative lifestyle,"" but a sickness. # Before: ""David Koresh is a cheap thug who interprets # the Bible through the barrel of a gun..."" --ATF spokesman # After: ""[The ATF] is a cheap thug who interprets # [the Constitution] through the barrel of a gun..."" --Me Good signature! -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Re: criminals & machineguns There's only one way I know of to tell an AR-15 from an M-16. Pick it up, hold it about a foot from your face and look closely at the saftey lever. If it has two positions, its an AR-15, if it has three, its an M-16. There are numerous internal differences as well, but since one would have to field strip the weapon to see them, they are not valid in this discussion. So, in conclusion, there is very little external differences to distinguish an AR-15 from an M-16 except at close (very close) range. David Bixler Auburn University All standard disclaimers apply. ",16 "Re: Mary's assumption In article David.Bernard@central.sun.com writes: [ in response to a question about why Jesus' parents would be sanctified beyond normal humanity] > >When Elizabeth greeted Mary, Elizabeth said something to the effect that >Mary, out of all women, was blessed. If so, it appears that this >exactly places Mary beyond the sanctification of normal humanity. I would think that simply being pregnant with the incarnation of the Almighty God would be enough to make Mary blessed among all women, whether or not she had special spiritual attributes. I find that the more special Mary needs to be, the less human Jesus gets. == Seanna Watson Bell-Northern Research, | Pray that at the end of living, (seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Of philosophies and creeds, | God will find his people busy Opinion, what opinions? Oh *these* opinions. | Planting trees and sowing seeds. No, they're not BNR's, they're mine. | I knew I'd left them somewhere. | --Fred Kaan ",15 "HELP: BIOS upgrade on Compaq 286 Deskpro Howdy, I recently upgraded the original BIOS in a Compaq Deskpro 286/12 with a Phoenix replacement BIOS, in order to support an IDE hard drive, and a high-density 3.5"" floppy. I assumed that this would be a plug-and-play procedure, but I have encountered a problem that Phoenix and Compaq are unwilling to admit responsibilty for, and I was wondering if anyone else had seen it. Everything is hunky-dory except the 3.5"" floppy, which will read, but NOT WRITE diskettes. Any write attempt merely corrupts both FATs. I have tried everything I can think of. Any takers? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Micah H. Lax on INTERNET ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ",3 "Windows/MFC 2.0 -> Motif tools sought I am looking for info on products that can take Windows source on a Unix box (such as Sparc), and produce a Motif executable. Another requirement is that MFC 2.0 should be supported. I already know of: Wind/U by Bristol Technologies Hunter SDK MainWin by MainSoft Are there any others? I will post a summary if it's wanted. Daniel -- dls@autodesk.com dls@netcom.com Daniel L Smith, Autodesk, Sausalito, California, (415) 332-2344 x 2580 disclaimer: accuracy of statements corrrelates somehow to caffeine intake ",5 "Re: div. and conf. names In article <1993Apr20.152107.19114@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes: >There are several problems with the way the game is being presented to the >fans. I feel that geographical names would enhance regional loyalties >more than names honouring personages. I think a compromise would work; namely honouring personages in Conference names, and using geographical references in the divisional names. Although I still do not think the move will draw fans to the game; IMO it's a cosmetic change that Bettman and the owners _hope_ will have an effect. And it doesn't say much for the mentality of anybody it works on, either. >Another thing that bothers me is the points system. Percentages, as used in >the other major sports are clearly more informative. When I look at the >NHL standings the first thing I have to do is make a quick calculation to >account for games in hand (which is almost always the case). Some will >object to percentages, claiming perhaps, that it is an ""Americanization"" >of the sport Surprise, I agree totally. The points system is fine, if everybody at all times has played the same number of games. Since this is almost never the case, winning percentage is the way to go. I don't particularly care if it is an ""American"" thing either, if it works. -- dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca ",10 "Ind. Source Picks Baerga Over Alomar: Case Closed fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes: > > I'd say you could make a good for them being about equal right now. T&P > rated Baerga higher, actually. > > Mike > -- Finally, an objective source. Alomar's a great player, but so is Baerga. Nice to see the objective source cited rather than ""my dad's bigger than your dad"" posts. BK ",9 "Re: Challenge to Microsoft supporters. Hey Larry, How can you be a comp sci major and never crash a damn computer. What does your CS dept teach you...or are you just that good of a programmer that not one of your assembly programs have ever downed your machine. >""Crash Protection"" is such >a marketing gimick, it isn't funny.. Out of 4 months of using Windows on my >new machine I've only had it crash ONCE, and I don't have a ""run of the mill"" >configuration. Why do you bother putting up such stupid posts...or are you that ignorant. Bob Campbell Clarkson University, Potsdam NY - campbers@craft.clarkson.edu ",2 "Re: My Gun is like my American Express Car In article 27322@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU, andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes: > In article <93104.231049U28037@uicvm.uic.edu> Jason Kratz writes: > >All your points are very well taken and things that I haven't considered as > >I am not really familiar enough with handguns. > > That's not all that Kratz doesn't know. > > >Hell, a Glock is the last thing that should be switched to. The only thing > >that I know about a Glock is the lack of a real safety on it. Sure there is > >that little thing in the trigger but that isn't too great of a safety. > > Now we know that Kratz doesn't understand what a safety is supposed to > do. (He also confuses ""things he can see"" with ""things that exist""; > Glocks have multiple safeties even though only one is visible from the > outside.) > > A safety is supposed to keep the gun from going off UNLESS that's > what the user wants. With Glocks, one says ""I want the gun to go > off"" by pulling the trigger. If the safeties it has make that work, > it has a ""real"" safety, no matter what Kratz thinks. > > -andy > -- I agree very much. I have read almost every article written about the Glock, and IMO, it is probably the safest auto-loader made. It has the best safty of all, Jeff Cooper's First Rule, ""Keep your finger OFF the trigger until you want to shoot."" If everyone just observed this, there would be fewer ""accidents"". David N. Bixler Auburn University Standard Disclaimers apply. ",16 "Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx? ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes: > I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today >have v engines. >V4 - I don't know of any. >V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6? >V8 - Don't know of any. >V12 - Jaguar XJS > Please add to the list. > Thanks, > -S > ssave@ole.cdac.com *>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this a joke ? *>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- ___________________________________________________________________ || Geof Evans | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au || || If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk. || ------------------------------------------------------------------- ",7 "Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots? In article <93115.120409ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET>, writes... >> >You might look for an allergy doctor in your area who uses sublingual >drops instead of shots for treatment. (You are given a small bottle of >antigens; 3 drops are placed under the tongue for 5 minutes.) My This homeopathic remedies. I tried the dander one for a month. 15 drops three times a day. I didn't notice any change whats so ever. How long were you using the drops before you noticed a difference? For me this treatment is more expensive because my insurance will cover tradiitional medicine. ",13 "Re: story In article <1993Apr19.223026.10137@Pacesetter.COM> lynn@pacesetter.com (Lynn E. Hall) writes: > > I just got back from the 11th Annual Southern California Harley Dealers >Association Run to the Colorado river city of Lauglin, Nevada. > >AKA - the Lauglin Run > I went there too. All I can say is ""TOO MUCH TRASH"". -- I hate the 3B2 The 3B2 can bite me. ",8 "Re: HyperKnowledge In article <1993Apr28.200843.83413@embl-heidelberg.de>, tuparev@EMBL-Heidelberg.DE (Georg Tuparev) writes... > > >ANNOUNCEMENT: The ""HyperKnowledge"" PROJECT for NeXTSTEP > >Motivation > >We are a heterogeneous group of scientists and students who feel that our >work is continuously hindered by computer environments dominated by >incompatible scientific tools and monstrous software packages (too often >claiming to do everything). >What we need is an object-oriented scientific environment where the tools >we choose to use are integrated without being parts of a closed system, >highly interactive, and extendable (both by the addition of our own >specialized objects and by combining the available tools - graphically). >The use of such an environment should be a natural extension of our work, >requiring a very short learning phase and practically no >user-documentation. I know this is kinda off the subject of sci.space, but not really, I want to answer this for their, as well as everyone else's information. What these people are proposing, by and large already exists and can be purchased today. It is called labview by National Instruments. IT is a wonderful object oriented graphical programming language. IT has been implemented on both Mac's PC's and VME unix boxes. IT is fare superior to any programming approach that I have ever seen and allowed us to decrease the software development time for our shuttle payloads by 90 percent. This program is not dependendant on specific hardware and already has exensive analysis capability. Why re-invent the wheel on a platform that may not exist? It is a great idea but look out there at what is available today. The Hydrogen leak on the Shuttle was found using this software. All SSME control and simulation studies, along with the real testing at MSFC is handled with LabVIEW. There are tons of applications, with the ability to create ""virtual"" instruments that can accomplish any specific custom task the maker desires. With the addition of IEEE-488 support, the computer becomes a virtual control station, allowing the graphic representation of remote instrumentation. With serial I/O support that instrument can be anywhere. The ground control software for the main control of SEDSAT 1 will utilize this approach. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ",14 "Re: Societal basis for morality In article dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller) writes: >:If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What right do >: we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally mandated morality? >: Pardon the extremism, but couldn't I murder your ""brother"" and say that I was >: exercising my rights as I saw them, was doing what felt good, didn't want >: anyone forcing their morality on me, or I don't follow your ""morality"" ? > > You most certainly could. But, you could also expect the same would happen >right back to you. Every person claiming that thier decisions are not >questionable leads to chaos. It is the pure fear of this chaos that >makes humans come up with a ""code"" to follow. Indeed. But that code is law, not morality. I think the point here was not a discussion of anarchy vs. law. I think that most see the benefit of a non- anarchistic system. Our incredibly high standard of living is based on technology, derived from an ordered existance. We wouln't have got far if we were still bashing each other over the head with clubs, right? The question becomes, is it possible to have an ordered society in which the laws are recognized to be in place based on _enlightened self interest_ as opposed to morality? And secondly, assuming a satisfactory _legal_ code is in place, and we choose to persue individual freedoms as far as possible, is a _moral code_ required or even acceptable? Can an agreement ever be reached? At what point do we start to comprimise? Think about these questions in light of some recent social issues: Topic Legal? Moral? Homosexuality Yes (insertopinionhere) Drug use No ditto Prostitution No (gen.) ditto Abortion Yes (gen.) ditto Prayer in school No (gen.) ditto Tabacco taxation :-) Yes ditto Spanking :-) Yes ditto Reading news :-) Yes No You milage may vary depending on your state/country! :-) Enjoy! Phil Trodwell *** This space ***| ""I'd be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle *** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not *** (cheap) ***| this radio!"" -Hunter S. Thompson ",19 "(17 Apr 93) Computer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY [part 2/3] Archive-name: graphics/resources-list/part2 Last-modified: 1993/04/17 Computer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 2/3 ] =================================================== Last Change : 17 April 1993 14. Plotting packages ===================== Gnuplot 3.2 ----------- It is one of the best 2- and 3-D plotting packages, with online help.It's a command-line driven interactive function plotting utility for UNIX, MSDOS, Amiga, Archimedes, and VMS platforms (at least!). Freely distributed, it supports many terminals, plotters, and printers and is easily extensible to include new devices. It was posted to comp.sources.misc in version 3.0, plus 2 patches. You can practically find it everywhere (use Archie to find a site near you!). The comp.graphics.gnuplot newsgroup is devoted to discussion of Gnuplot. Xvgr and Xmgr (ACE/gr) ----------------------- Xmgr is an XY-plotting tool for UNIX workstations using X or OpenWindows. There is an XView version called xvgr for Suns. Collectively, these 2 tools are known as ACE/gr. Compiling xmgr requires the Motif toolkit version 1.1 and X11R4 - xmgr will not compile under X11R3/Motif 1.0x. Check at ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34} in /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xmgr-2.09.tar.Z (Motif version) /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xvgr-2.09.tar.Z (XView version) Comments, suggestions, bug reports to Paul J Turner (if mail fails, try pturner@ese.ogi.edu). Due to time constraints, replies will be few and far between. Robot ----- Release 0.45 : 2-D and limited 3-D. Based on XView 3, written in C / Fortran (so you need a Fortran compiler or the f2c translator). Mainly tested on Sun4, less on DECstations. Check at ftp.astro.psu.edu (128.118.147.28), pub/astrod. VG plotting library ------------------- This is a library of Fortran callable routines at sunspot.ceee.nist.gov [129.6.64.151] Xgobi ----- It's being developed at Bellcore, and its speciality are multidimensional data sets analysis and exploration. You can call it from the S language also, and it works as an X11 client using the Athena widget set (or with an ASCII terminal). It's distributed free of charge from STATLIB at CMU. To get it via e-mail, send email to statlib@temper.stat.cmu.edu and in the body area of the message, put the line send xgobi from general If you want to pick it via ftp, connect to lib.stat.cmu.edu. Log in as ""statlib"" and use your e-mail address as your password. Then type cd general mget xgobi.* Warning: It's about 2 MB sources + large Postscript manual. Read the relevant README to decide whether you need it or not. PGPLOT ------ Runs on VAX/VMS and supposedly on UNIX. It's a set of fortran routines freely available (though copyrighted and requiring a nominal fee of $50 or so) that includes contour plots and support for various devices, including ps. Contact tjp@deimos.caltech.edu GGRAPH ------ Host shorty.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.8] : /pub/ggraph.tar.Z Unknown more details. epiGRAPH -------- For PCs. Call dvj@lab2.phys.lgu.spb.su (Vladimir J. Dmitriev) for details. You can get the program demo or (and) play version, if sent 10 $ to 1251 Budapest posta fiok 60 Hungary ph/fax 1753696 Budapest ph 2017760 Multiplot XLN ------------- For Amigas, shareware ($30 USD, #20 UK or $40 Aust.). Advanced 2D package that has a big list of features. Contact: Dr. Alan Baxter , Cambridge University Department of Pathology, Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1QP, UK +Athena Plotter Widget set +------------------------- + + This version V6.0 is based on Gregory Bond's version V5-beta. Added + some stuff for scientific graphs, i.e. log axes, free scalable axes, + XY-lineplots and some more, and re-added plotter callbacks from V4, e.g. + to request the current pointer position, or to cut off a rectangle from the + plotting area for zooming-in. Version V6.0 has a log of bugs fixed and a + log of improvements against V6-beta. Additionally I did some other + changes/extensions, besides + + - Origin and frame lines for axes. + - Subgrid lines on subtic positions. + - Line plots in different line types (lines, points, lines+points, + impulses, lines+impulses, steps, bars), line styles (solid, dotted, + dashed, dot-dashed) and marker types for data points. + - Legend at the right or left hand side of the plot. + - Optional drawing to a pixmap instead of a window. + - Layout callback for aligning axis positions when using + multiple plotters in one application. + + Available at export.lcs.mit.edu, directory contrib/plotter + +SciPlot +------- + SciPlot is a scientific 2D plotting and manipulation program. + For the NeXT (requires NeXTStep 3.0), and it's shareware. + + Features: + ASCII import and export; EPS export; copy, cut, paste with data buffer; + free number of data points, data buffer, and document window; + selective open and save ; plotting in many styles; automatic legend; + subviews; linear and logarithmic axes; two different axes; text and graphic; + color support; zoom; normalizing and moving; axis conversions; + free hand data manipulations (cut, edit, move, etc.); data editor; sorting + of data; absolute,relative, and free defined error bars; + calculating with buffers (+, -, *, / ); background subtractions + (linear,shirley,tougaard, bezier); integration and relative integration; + fitting of one or more free defined functions; linear regression; + calculations (+, -, *, /, sin, cos, log, etc.); function generator; + spline interpolation; least square smooth and FFT smooth; differentiation; + FFT; ESCA calculations and database; .. and something more + + You can find it on: + ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.7] : /pub/NeXT/science/SciPlot3.1.tar.Z + + Author: + Michael Wesemann + Scillerstr. 73,1000 Berlin 12, Germany + mike@fiasko.rz-berlin.mpg.de + +PLPLOT +------ + PLPLOT is a scientific plotting package for many systems, small (micro) + and large (super) alike. Despite its small size and quickness, + it has enough power to satisfy most users, including: + standard x-y plots, semilog plots, log-log plots, contour plots, 3D plots, + mesh plots, bar charts and pie charts. Multiple graphs (of the same or + different sizes) may be placed on a single page with multiple lines in each + graph. Different line styles, widths and colors are supported. A virtually + infinite number of distinct area fill patterns may be used. There are + almost 1000 characters in the extended character set. This includes four + different fonts, the Greek alphabet and a host of mathematical, musical, and + other symbols. The fonts can be scaled to any size for various effects. + Many different output device drivers are available (system dependent), + including a portable metafile format and renderer. + + Freely available (but copyrighted) via anonymous FTP on + hagar.ph.utexas.edu, directory pub/plplot + + At present (v. 4.13), PLPLOT is known to work on the following systems: + + Unix: SunOS, A/IX, HP-UX, Unicos, DG/UX, Ultrix + Other platforms: VMS, Amiga/Exec, MS-DOS, OS/2, NeXT + + Authors: Many. The main supporters are: + + Maurice LeBrun : PLPLOT kernel and the metafile, + xterm, xwindow, tektronix, and Amiga drivers. + Geoff Furnish : MS-DOS and OS/2 drivers + Tony Richardson : PLPLOT on the NeXT + +SuperMongo +---------- + 2-D plotting package at CMU, filename ~re00/tmp/SM.2.1.0.tar.Z + (probably under the ftp.cmu.edu or andrew.cmu.edu machines?) + +GLE +--- + GLE is a high quality graphics package for scientists. It runs on a + variety of platforms (PCs, VAXes, and Unix) with drivers for XWindows, + REGIS, TEK4010, PC graphics cards, VT100s, HP plotters, Postscript + printers, Epson-compatible printers and Laserjet/Paintjet printers. It + provides LaTEX quality fonts, as well as full support for Postscript + fonts. The graphing module provides full control over all features of + graphs. The graphics primitives include user-defined subroutines for + complex pictures and diagrams. + + Accompanying utilities include Surface (for hidden line surface + plotting), Contour (for contour plots), Manip (for manipulation of + columnar data files), and Fitls (for fitting arbitrary equations to + data). + + Mailing list: GLEList. Send a message to + + listserver@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu, with a message boyd containing + + sub glelist ""Your Name"" + + maintainer: Dean Pentcheff ========================================================================== 15. Image analysis software - Image processing and display ========================================================== PC and Mac-based tools (multi-platform software) ====================== IMDISP ------ IMDISP Written at JPL and other NASA sites. Can do simple display, enhancing, smoothing and so on. Works with the FITS and VICAR/PDS data formats of NASA. Can read TIFF images, if you know their dimensions [PC and Macs] LabVIEW 2 --------- LabVIEW is used as a framework for image processing tools. It provides a graphical programming environment using block diagram sketch is the ""program"" with graphical elements representing the programming elements. Hundreds of functions are already available and are connected using a wiring tool to create the block diagram (program). Functions that the block diagrams represent include digital signal processing and filtering, numerical analysis, statistics, etc. The tool allows any Virtual Instrument (VI, a software file that looks and acts like a real laboratory instrument) to be used as a part of any other virtual instrument. National Instruments markets plug-in digital signal processing (DSP) boards for Macintoshs and PC compatables that allow real-time acquisition and analysis at a personal computer. New software tools for DSP are allowing engineers to harness the power of this technology. The tools range from low-level debugging software to high-level block diagram development software. There are three levels of DSP programming associated with the NB-DSP2300 board and LabVIEW: Use of the NB-DSP2300 Analysis Library: FFTs, power spectra, filters routines callable from THINK C and Macintosh Programers Workshop (MPW) C that execute on the NB-DSP2300 board. There is an analysis Virtual Interface Library of ready-to-use VIs optimized for the NB-DSP2300. Use of the National Instruments Developers Toolkit that includes an optimizing C compiler, an assembler and a linker for low-level programming of the DSP hardware. This approach offers the highest level of performance but is the must difficult in terms of ease of use. Use of the National Instruments Interface Kit software package which has utility functions for memory management data communications and downloading code to the NB-DSP2300 board. (This is the easiest route for the development of custom code.) Ultimage Concept VI ------------------- Concept VI by Graftek-France is a family of image processing Virtual Instruments (VIs) that give LabVIEW 2 (described above) users high-end tools for designing, integrating and monitoring imaging control systems. A VI is a software file that looks and acts like a real laboratory instrument. Typical applications for Concept VI include thermography, surveillance, machine vision, production testing, biomedical imaging, electronic microscopy and remote sensing. Ultimage Concept VI addresses applications which require further qualitative and quantitative analysis. It includes a complete set of functions for image enhancement, histogram equalization, spatial and frequency filtering, isolation of features, thresholding, mathematical morphology analysis, density measurement, object counting, sizing and characterization. The program loads images with a minimum resolution of 64 by 64, a pixel depth of 8, 16, or 32 bits, and one image plane. Standard input and output formats include PICT, TIFF, SATIE, and AIPD. Other formats can be imported. Image enhancement features include lookup table transformations, spatial linear and non-linear filters, frequency filtering, arithmetic and logic operations, and geometric transformations, among others. Morphological transformations include erosion, dilation, opening, closing, hole removal, object separation, and extraction of skeletons, among others. Quantitative analysis provides for objects' detection, measurement, and morphological distribution. Measures include area, perimeter, center of gravity, moment of inertia, orientation, length of relevant chords, and shape factors and equivalence. Measures are saved in ASCII format. The program also provides for macro scripting and integration of custom modules. A 3-D view command plots a perspective data graph where image intensity is depicted as mountains or valleys in the plot. The histogram tool can be plotted with either a linear or logarithmic scale. The twenty-eight arithmetic and logical operations provide for: masking and averaging sections of images, noise removal, making comparisons, etc. There are 13 spatial filters that alter pixel intensities based on local intensity. These include high-pass filters for contrast and outlines. The frequency data resulting from FFT analysis can be displayed as either the (real , imaginary ) components or the (phase, magnitude) data. The morphological transformations are useful for data sharpening and defining objects or for removing artifacts. The transformations include: thresholding, eroding, dilating and even hole filling. The program's quantitative analysis measurements include: area, perimeter, center of mass, object counts, and angle between points. GTFS, Inc. 2455 Bennett Valley Road #100C Santa Rosa, CA 95494 707-579-1733 IPLab Spectrum -------------- IPLAB Spectrum supports image processing and analysis but lacks the morphology and quantitative analysis features provided by Graftek-FranceUs Ultimage Concept VI. Using scripting tools, the user tells the system the operations to be performed. The problem is that far too many basic operations require manual intervention. The tool supports: FFTs, 16 arithmetic operations for pixel alteration, and a movie command for cycling through windows. Macintosh-based tools ===================== NCSA Image, NCSA PalEdit and more --------------------------------- NCSA provides a whole suite of public-domain visualization tools for the Macintosh, primarily aimed at researchers wanting to visualize results from numerical modelling calculations. These applications, documentation, and source code are available for anonymous ftp from ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu. Commercial versions of the NCSA programs have been developed by Spyglass. Spyglass, Inc. 701 Devonshire Drive Champaign, IL 61820 (217) 355-6000 fax: 217 355 8925 NIH IMAGE --------- Available at alw.nih.gov (128.231.128.7) or (preferably) zippy.nimh.nih.gov [128.231.98.32], directory:/pub/image. It has painting and image manipulation tools, a macro language, tools for measuring areas, distances and angles, and for counting things. Using a frame grabber card, it can record sequences of images to be played back as a movie. It can invoke user-defined convolution matrix filters, such as Gaussian. It can import raw data in tab-delimited ASCII, or as 1 or 2-byte quantities. It also does histograms and even 3-D plots. It is limited to 8-bits/pixel, though the 8 bits map into a color lookup table. It runs on any Mac that has a 256-color screen and a FPU (or get the NonFPU version from zippy.nimh.nih.gov) PhotoMac -------- Data Translation, Inc. 100 Locke Dr. Marlboro, MA 01752 508-481-3700 PhotoPress ---------- Blue Solutions 3039 Marigold Place Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 805-492-9973 PixelTools and TCL-Image ------------------------ ""Complete family of PixelTools (hardware accelerator and applications software) for scientific image processing and analysis. Video-rate capture, display, processing, and analysis of high-resolution monochromatic and color images. Includes C source code."" TCL-Image: ""Software package for scientific, quantitative image processing and analysis. It provides a complete language for the capture, enhancement, and extraction of quantitative information from gray-scale images. TCL_Image has over 200 functions for image processing, and contains the other elements needed in a full programming language for algorithm development -- variables and control structures. It is easily extensible through ""script"" (or indirect command) files. These script files are simply text files that contain TCL-Image commands. They are executed as normal commands and include the ability to pass parameters. The direct capture of video images is supported via popular frame grabber boards. TCL-Image comes with the I-View utility that provides conversion between common image file types, such as PICT2 and TIFF."" Perceptics 725 Pellissippi Parkway Knoxville, TN 37933 615-966-9200 Satellite Image Workshop ------------------------ It comes with a number of satellite pictures (raw data) and does all sorts of image enhancing on it. You'll need at least a Mac II with co- processor; a 256 color display and a large harddisk. The program doesn't run under system 7.x.ATE1 V1 In the documentation the contact address is given as: Liz Smith, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, MS 300-323, 4800 Oak Grove Dr,.Pasadena, CA 91109 (818) 354-6980 Visualization Workbench ----------------------- ""An electronic imaging software system that performs interactive image analysis and scientific 2D and 3D plotting."" Paragon Imagine 171 Lincoln St. Lowell, MA 01852 508-441-2112 Adobe Photoshop --------------- The tool supports Rtrue colorS with 24-bit images or 256 levels of grey scale. Once an image has been imported it can be Rre-touchedS with various editing tools typical of those used in Macintosh-based RpaintS applications. These include an eraser, pencil, brush and air brush. Advanced RpasteS tools that control the interaction between a pasted selection and the receiving site have also been incorporated. For example, all red pixels in a selection can easily be preventing from being pasted. Photoshop has transparencies ranging from 0 to 100%, allowing you to create ghost overlays. RPhoto-editingS tools include control of the brightness and contrast, color balancing, hue/saturation modification and spectrum equalization. Images can be subjected to various signal processing algorithms to smooth or sharpen the image, blur edges, or locate edges. Image scaling is also supported. For storage savings, the images can be compressed using standard algorithms, including externally supplied compression such as JPEG, availlable from Storm Technologies. The latest version of Adobe Photoshop supports the import of numerous image formats including: EPSF, EPSF, TIFF, PICT resource, Amiga IFF/ILBM, CompuServe GIF, MacPaint, PIXAR, PixelPaint, Scitex CT, TGA and ThunderScan.. Adobe Systems, Inc. 1585 Charlestown Road PO Box 7900 Mountain View, CA 94039-7900 415-961-4400 ColorStudio and ImageStudio --------------------------- ColorStudio is an image-editing and paint package from Letraset that has more features than Adobe Photoshop but is decidedly more complex and therefore more difficult to use. Several steps are often required to accomplish that which can be done in a single step using Photoshop. The application requires a great deal of available disk space as one can easily end up with images in the 30 MB range. The program provides a variety of powerful selection tools including the ""auto selection tool"" which lets the user choose image areas on the basis of color, close hues, color range and mask. ImageStudio: Don't know... Letraset USA 40 Eisenhower Drive Paramus, NJ 07653 201-845-6100 Dapple Systems -------------- ""High resolution image analysis software provides processing tools to work with multiple images, enhance and edit, and measure a variety of global or feature parameters, and interpret the data."" Dapple Systems, 355 W. Olive Ave, #100 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 408-733-3283 Digital Darkroom ---------------- The latest release of Digital Darkroom has five new selection and editing tools for enhancing images. One such feature allows the user to select part of an image simply by ""painting"" it. A new polyline selection tool creates a selection tool for single pixel wide selections. A brush lets the operator ""paint"" with a selected portion of the image. Note that this is not a true color image enhancement tool. This tool should be used when the user intends to operate in grey-scale images only. It should be noted that Digital Darkroom is not as powerful as either Adobe Photoshop or ColorStudio. Silicon Beach Software 9770 Carroll Ctr. Rd., Suite J San Diego, CA 92126 619-695-6956 Dimple ------ It is compatible with system 6.05 and system 7.0 , requires Mac LC or II series with 256 colours, with a recommended min of 6Mb of ram. It has the capability of reading Erdas files. Functions include; image enhancement, 3D and contour plots, image statistics, supervised and unsupervised classification, PCA and other image transformations. There is also a means (Image Operation Language or IOL) by which you can write your own transformations. There is no image rectification, however Dimple is compatable with MAPII. The latest version is 1.4 and it is in the beta stage of testing. Dimple was initially developed as a teaching tool and it is very good for this purpose."" ""Dimple runs on a colour Macintosh. It is a product still in its development phase.. i.e. it doesn't have all the inbuilt features of other packages, but is coming along nicely. It has its own inbuilt language for writing ""programs"" for processing an image, defining convolution filters etc. Dimple is a full mac application with pull down menus etc... It is unprotected software."" Process Software Solutions, PO Box 2110, Wollongong, New South Wales, Australia. 2500. Phone 61 42 261757 Fax 61 42 264190. Enhance ------- Enhance has a RrulerS tool that supports measurements and additionally provides angle data. The tool has over 80 mathematical filter variations: ""Laplacian, medium noise filter"", etc. Files can be saved as either TIFF, PICT, EPSF or text (however EPSF files can't be imported). MicroFrontier 7650 Hickman Road Des Moines, IA 50322 515-270-8109 Image Analyst ------------- An image processing product for users who need to extract quantitative data from video images. Image Analyst lets users configure sophisticated image processing and measurement routines without the necessity of knowing a programming language. It is designed for such tasks at computing number and size of cells in images projected by video cameras attached to microscopes, or enhancing and measuring distances in radiographs. Image Analyst provides users with an array of field-proven video analysis techniques that enable them to easily assemble a sequence of instructions to enhance feature appearance; count objects; determine density, shape, size, position, or movement; perform object feature extraction; and conduct textural analysis automatically. Image Analyst works with either a framegrabber board and any standard video camera, or a disk-stored image. Within minutes, without the need for programming, the Image Analyst user can set up a process to identify and analyze any element of a image. Measurements and statistics can be automatically or semi-automatically generated from TIFF or PICT files or from captured video tape images. Image Analyst recognizes items in images based on their size, shape and position. The tool provides direct support for the Data Translation and Scion frame grabbers. A menu command allows for image capture from a VCR video camera or other NTSC or PAL devices. There are 2 types of files, the image itself and the related Sequence file that holds the processing, measurements and analysis that the user defines. Automated sequences are set up in Regions Of Interest (ROI) represented by movable, sizable boxes atop the image. Inside a ROI, the program can find the distance between two edges, the area of a shape, the thickness of a wall, etc. Image Analyst finds the center, edge and other positions automatically. The application also provides tools so that the user can work interactively to find the edge of object. It also supports histograms and a color look-up table (CLUT) tool. Automatix, Inc. 775 Middlesex Turnpike Billerica, MA 01821 508-667-7900 IPLab ----- Signal Analytics Corp. 374 Maple Ave. E Vienna, VA 22180 703-281-3277 FAX 703-281-2509 ""Menu-driven image processing software that supports 24-bit color or pseudocolor/grayscale image display and manipulation."" MAP II ------ Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II distributed by John Wiley has integrated image analysis. IMAGE ----- from Stanford : Try anonymous ftp from sumex-aim.stanford.edu It has pd source for image v2, and ready to run code for a mac under image v3. Windows/DOS PC-based tools ========================== CCD --- Richard Berry's CCD imaging book for Willamon-Bell contains (optional?) disks with image manipulating software. Source code is included. ERDAS ----- ""ERDAS will do all of the things you want: rectification, classification, transformations (canned & user-defined), overlays, filters, contrast enhancement, etc. ... I was using it on my thesis & then changed the topic a bit & that work became secondary."" ERDAS, Inc. 2801 Buford Highway Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30329 404-248-9000 FAX 404-248-9400 RSVGA ----- ""I have been getting up to speed on a program called RSVGA available from Eidetic Digital Image Ltd. in British Columbia. Its for IBM PC's or clones, cheap (about $400) and does all the stuff Erdas does but is not as fast or as powerful, though I have had only limited experience with Erdas. I have used RSVGA with 6 of 7 Landsat bands and it is a good starter program except for the obtuse manual"" IMAGINE-32 ---------- It's a 32 bit package [I suppose for PCs] called ""Imagine32"" or ""Image32"" The program does a modest amount of image processing --add, subtract, multiply, divide, display, and plot an x or y cut across the image. It can also display a number of images simultaneously. The company is CompuScope, in Santa Barbara, CA. PC Vista -------- It was announced in the 1989 August edition of PASP. It is known to be available from Mike Richmond, whose email addresses have been richmond@bllac.berkeley.edu richmond@bkyast.berkeley.edu and his s-mail address is: Michael Richmond,Astronomy Department, Campbell Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720 The latest version of PC-Vista, version 1.7, includes not only the source code and help files, but also a complete set of executable programs and a number of sample FITS images. If you do wish to use the source code, you will need Microsoft C, version 5.0 or later; other compilers may work, but will require substantial modifications. To receive the documentation and nine double-density (360K) floppies (or three quad-density 3-1/2 inch floppies (1.44M) with everything on them, just send a request for PC-Vista, together with your name and a US-Mail address, to Office of Technology Licensing 2150 Shattuck Ave., Suite 510 Berkeley, Ca. 94704 Include a check (Traveller's Checks are fine) or purchase order for $150.00 in U.S. dollars, if your address is inside the continental U.S., or $165.00 otherwise, made out to Regents of the University of California to cover duplication and mailing costs. SOFTWARE TOOLS -------------- It's a set of software ""tools"" put out by Canyon State Systems and Software. They are not free, but rather cheap at about $30 I heard. It will handle most all of the formats used by frame grabber software. MIRAGE ------ It's image processing software written by Jim Gunn at the Astrophysics Dept at Princeton. It will run on a PC among other platforms. It is a Forth based system - i.e. a Forth language with many image processing displaying functions built in. DATA TRANSLATION SOURCE BOOK ---------------------------- The Data Translation company in Massachusetts publishes a free book containing vendors of data analysis hardware and software which is compatible with Data Translation and other frame grabbers. Surely you can find much more PC-related stuff in it. MAXEN386 -------- A couple of Canadians have written a program named MAXEN386 which does maximum entropy image deconvolution. Their company is named Digital Signal Processing Software, or something like that, and the software is mentioned in an article in Astronomy Magazine, either Jan or Feb 92 (an article on CCD's vs film). JANDEL SCIENTIFIC (JAVA) ------------------------ Another software package (JAVA) is put out by Jandel Scientific. Jandel Scientific, 65 Koch Road, Corte Madera, CA 94925, (415) 924-8640, (800) 874-1888. Microbrian ---------- Runs on an MS dos platform and uses a 32 bit graphics card (Vista), or an about to be released version will support a number of super VGA cards. Its a full blown remote sensed data processing system.. It is menu driven (character based screen), but is does not use a windowed user interface. Its is hardware protected with a dongle. Mbrian = micro Barrier reef Image Anaysis System. It was developed by CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Organization) and is marketed/ supported by: MPA Australia (51 Lusher Road, Croydon, Victoria tel + 61 3 724 4488 fax +61 3 724 4455) There are educational and commercial prices, but be prepared to set aside $A10k for the first educational licence. Subsequent ones come cheaper (they need to!) It has installed sites worldwide. It is widely used at ANU. MicroImage ---------- The remote sensing lab here at Dartmouth currently uses Terra-Mar's MicroImage, on 486 PCs with some fancy display hardware. Terra-Mar Resource Information Services, Inc. 1937 Landings Drive Mountain View, CA 94043 415-964-6900 FAX 415-964-5430 Unix-based tools ================ IRAF (Image Reduction and Analysis Facility) -------------------------------------------- Developed in the National Optical Astronomy Observatory, Kitt Peak AZ It is free, you can ftp it from tucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1] and complement it with STSDAS from stsci.edu [130.167.1.2]. Email to iraf@noao.edu for more details. Apparently this is one of the _de facto_ standards in the astronomical image community. They issue a newsletter also. They seem to support very well their users. Works with VMS also last I heard, and practically has its own shell on top of the VMS/Unix shells. It's suggested that you get a copy of saoimage for display under X windows. Very flexible/extendable -- tons (literally 3 linear feet) of documentation for the general user, skilled user, and programmer. ALV --- A Sun-specific image toolkit. Version 2.0.6 posted to comp.sources.sun on 11dec89. Also available via email to alv-users-request@cs.bris.ac.uk. AIPS ---- Astronomical Image Processing System. Contact: aipsmail@nrao.edu (also see the UseNet Newsgroups alt.sci.astro.aips and sci.astro.fits) Built by NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory, HQ in Charlottesville, VA, sites in NM, AZ, WV). Software distributed by 9-track, Exabyte, DAT, or (non-anonymous) internet ftp. Documentation (PostScript mostly) available via anonymous ftp to baboon.cv.nrao.edu (192.33.115.103), directory pub/aips and pub/aips/TEXT/PUBL. Installation requires building the system and thus a Fortran and C compiler. This package can read and write FITS data (see sci.astro.fits), and is primarily for reduction, analysis, and image enhancement of Radio Astronomy data from radio telescopes, particularly the Very Large Array (VLA), a synthesis instrument. It consists of almost 300 programs that do everything from copying data to sophisticated deconvolution, e.g. via maximum entropy. There is an X11-based Image tool (XAS) and a tek-compatible xterm-based graphics tool built into AIPS. The XAS tool is modelled after the hardware functionality of the International Imaging Systems model 70 display unit and can do image arithmetic, etc. The code is mostly Fortran 77 with some system C language modules, and is available for Suns, IBM RS/6000, Dec/Ultrix, Convex, Cray (Unicos), and Alliant with support planned for HP-9000/7xx, Solaris 2.1, and maybe SGI. There is currently a project - ""AIPS++"" - underway to rewrite the algorithmic functionality of AIPS in a modern setting, using C++ and an object oriented approach. Whereas AIPS is proprietary code (licensed for free to non-profit institutions) owner by NRAO and the NSF, AIPS++ will be in the public domain at some level, as it is an international effort with contributions from the US, Canada, England, the Netherlands, India, and Australia to name a few. LABOimage --------- (version 4.0 is out for X11) It's written in C, and currently runs on Sun 3/xxx, Sun 4/xxx (OS3.5, 4.0 and 4.0.3) under SunView. The expert system for image segmentation is written in Allegro Common Lisp. It was used on the following domains: computer science (image analysis), medicine, biology, physics. It is distributed free of charge (source code). Available via anonymous FTP at ftp.ads.com (128.229.30.16), in pub/VISION-LIST-ARCHIVE/SHAREWARE/LaboImage_* Contact: Prof. Thierry Pun, Computer Vision Group Computing Science Center, U-Geneva 12, rue du Lac, CH-1207 Geneva SWITZERLAND Phone : +41(22) 787 65 82; fax: +41(22) 735 39 05 E-mail: pun@cui.unige.ch or pun@cgeuge51.bitnet Figaro ------ It was originally made for VMS, and can be obtained from Keith Shortridge in Australia (ks@aaoepp.aao.gov.au) and for Unix from Sam Southard at Caltech (sns@deimos.caltech.edu). It's about 110Mbytes on a Sun. KHOROS ------ Moved to the Scientific Visualization category below Vista ----- The ""real thing"" is available via anonymous ftp from lowell.edu. Email to vista@lowell.edu for more details. Total size less than 20Mbytes. DISIMP ------ (Device Independent Software for Image Processing) is a powerful system providing both user friendliness and high functionality in interactive times. Feature Description DISIMP incorporates a rich library of image processing utilities and spatial data options. All functions can be easily accessed via the DISIMP executive. This menu is modular in design and groups image processes by their function. Such a logical structure means that complicated processes are simply a progression through a series of modules. Processes include image rectification, classification (unsupervised and supervised), intensity transformations, three dimensional display and Principal Component Analysis. DISIMP also supports the more simple and effective enhancement techniques of filtering, band subtraction and ratioing. Host Configuration Requirements Running on UNIX workstations, DISIMP is capable of processing the more computational intensive techniques in interactive processing times. DISIMP is available in both Runtime and Programmer's environments. Using the Programmers environment, utilities can be developed for specific applications programs. Graphics are governed by an icon-based Display Panel which allows quick enhancments of a displayed image. Manipulations of Look Up Tables, colour stretches, changes to histograms, zooming and panning can be interactively driven through this control. A range of geographic projections enables DISIMP to integrate data of image, graphic and textual types. Images can be rectified by a number of coordinate systems, providing the true geographic knowledge essential for ground truthing. Overlays of grids, text and vector data can be added to further enhance referenced imagery. The system is a flexible package allowing users of various skill levels to determine their own working environment, including the amount of help required. DISIMP comes fully configured with no optional extras. The purchase price includes all functionality required for professional processing of remote sensed data. For further information, please contact: The Business Manager, CLOUGH Engineering Group Systems Division, 627 Chapel Street, South Yarra, Australia 3141. Telephone: +61 3 825 5555 Fax: +61 3 826 6463 Global Imaging Software ----------------------- ""We use Global Imaging Software to process AVHRR data, from the dish to the final display. Select a chunk of five band data from a pass, automatic navigation, calibrate it to Albedo and Temp, convert that to byte, register it to predesigned window, all relatively automatically and carefree. It has no classification routines to speak of, but it isn't that difficult to write your own with their programmer's module. Very small operation: one designs, one codes, one sells. Been around for a number of years, sold to Weather Service and Navy. Runs on HP9000 with HP-UX. Supports 24-bit display"" HIPS ---- (Human Information Processing Laboratory's Image Processing System) Michael Landy co-wrote and sell a general-purpose package for image processing which has been used for basically all the usual image processing applications (robotics, medical, satellite, engineering, oil exploration, etc.). It is called HIPS, and deals with sequences of multiband images in the same way it deals with single images. It has been growing since we first wrote it, both by additions from us as well as a huge user-contributed library. Feature description HIPS is a set of image processing modules which together provide a powerful suite of tools for those interested in research, system development and teaching. It handles sequences of images (movies) in precisely the same manner as single frames. Programs and subroutines have been developed for simple image transformations, filtering, convolution, Fourier and other transform processing, edge detection and line drawing manipulation, digital image compression and transmission methods, noise generation, and image statistics computation. Over 150 such image transformation programs have been developed. As a result, almost any image processing task can be performed quickly and conveniently. Additionally, HIPS allows users to easily integrate their own custom routines. New users become effective using HIPS on their first day. HIPS features images that are self-documenting. Each image stored in the system contains a history of the transformations that have been applied to that image. HIPS includes a small set of subroutines which primarily deals with a standardized image sequence header, and a large library of image transformation tools in the form of UNIX ``filters''. It comes complete with source code, on-line manual pages, and on-line documentation. Host Configuration Requirements Originally developed at New York University, HIPS now represents one of the most extensive and flexible vision and image processing environments currently available. It runs under the UNIX operating system. It is modular and flexible, provides automatic documentation of its actions, and is almost entirely independent of special equipment. HIPS is now in use on a variety of computers including Vax and Microvax, Sun, Apollo, Masscomp, NCR Tower, Iris, IBM AT, etc. For image display and input, drivers are supplied for the Grinnell and Adage (Ikonas) image processors, and the Sun-2, Sun-3, Sun- 4, and Sun-386i consoles. We also supply user-contributed drivers for a number of other framestores and windowing packages (Sun gfx, Sun console, Matrox VIP-1024, ITI IP-512, Lexidata, Macintosh II, X windowing system, and Iris). The Hipsaddon package includes an interface for the CRS-4000. It is a simple matter to interface HIPS with other frame- stores, and we can put interested users in touch with users who have interfaced HIPS with the Arlunya and Datacube Max- Video. HIPS can be easily adapted for other image display devices because 98% of HIPS is machine independent. Availability HIPS has proven itself a highly flexible system, both as an interactive research tool, and for more production- oriented tasks. It is both easy to use, and quickly adapted and extended to new uses. HIPS is supplied on magnetic tape in UNIX tar format (either reel- to-reel or Sun cartridge), and comes with source code, libraries, a library of convolu- tion masks, and on-line documentation and manual pages. Michael Landy SharpImage Software P.O. Box 373, Prince Street Station New York, NY 10012-0007 Voice: (212) 998-7857 Fax: (212) 995-4011 msl@cns.nyu.edu MIRA ---- [ Please DON'T confuse that with the Thalmanns animation system from Montreal. These are altogether different beasts! - nfotis ] MIRA stands for Microcomputer Image Reduction and Analysis. MIRA gives workstation level performance on 386/486 DOS computers using SVGA cards in 256 color modes up to 1024x768. MIRA contains a very handsome/functional GUI which is mouse and keystroke operated. MIRA reads/writes TIFF and FITS formats, native formats of a number of CCD cameras, and uncompressed binary images in byte, short integer, and 4-byte real pixel format in 1- or 2- dimensions. The result of an image processing operation can be short integer or real pixels, or the same as that of the input image. MIRA does the operation using short or floating point arithmetic to maintain the precision and accuracy of the pixel format. Over 100 functions are hand-coded in assembly language for maximum speed on the Intel hardware. The entire graphical interface is also written in assembly language to maximize the speed of windowing operations. Windows for 2-d image and 1-d image/data display and analysis have dedicated cursors which read position and value value in real time as you move the mouse. There are also smooth, real time contrast and brightness stretch and panning of a magnified portion of the displayed image(s), all operated by the mouse. A wide selection of grayscale, pseudocolor, and random palettes is provided, and other palettes can be generated. Supported functions include such niceties as the following: o image & image: + - / * interpolation o image & constant: + - / * o unary operations: abs value, polynomial of pixel value, chs, 1/x, log, byteswap, clip values at upper/lower limits, short->real or real->short. o combine images by mean, median, mode, or sum of pixel values, with or without autoscaling to mean, median, or mode of an image section. o convolutions/filters: Laplacian, Sobel edge operator, directional gradient, line, Gaussian, elliptical and rectangular equal weight filters, unsharp masking, median filters, user defined filter kernel. Ellipse, rectangle, line, gradient, Gaussian, and user defined filters can be rotated to any specified angle. o CCD data reduction: flat fielding, dark subtraction, column over/underscan bias removal, remove bad pixels and column defects, normalize to region target mean, median, or modal value. o create subimage, mosaic m x n 1-d or 2-d images to get larger image, collapse 2-d image into 1-d image. o plot 1-d section or collapsed section of 2-d image, plot histogram of region of an image. o review/change image information/header data, rename keywords, plot keyword values for a set of images. o luminance/photometry: elliptical or circular aperture photometry, brightness profile, isophotal photometry between set of upper & lower luminances, area and luminance inside traced polygon. Interactive background fitting and removal from part or all of image, fit elliptical aperture shape to image isophotes. o interactive with 2-d image: contrast/brightness, x- y- or diagonal plot of pixel values, distance between two points, compute region stats,` centroid, pan to x,y location or image center, zoom 1/16 to 10 times, change cursor to rectangle crosshair, full image crosshair, or off, and adjust cursor size on image. Select linear, log or gamma transfer function or histogram equalization. o interactive or specified image offset computation and re-sampling for registration. o interactive with 1-d image: zoom in x- y- or both in steps of 1/2 or 2 times current, re-center plot, or enlarge a framed area. 4 plot buffers can be cycled through. Interactive data analysis: polynomial fitting, point deletion, undelete, change value, point weighting, linear and quadratic loess and binomial smoothing, revert to unit point weights or original data buffer, substitute results into data buffer for pass back to calling function. Dump data buffer (+ overlays and error bars) to file or printer. Change to user specified coordinate system. o Tricolor image combination and display, hardcopy halftone printout to HP-PCL compatible printers (Laserjet, deskjet, etc.) o Documentation is over 300 pages in custom vinyl binder. Cost: 995 $USD/copy Available from: Axiom Research, Inc. Box 44162 Tucson, AZ 85733 (602) 791-2864 phone/fax. international marketing rep: Saguaro Scientific Corporation, Tucson, Arizona. ========================================================================== End of Part 2 of the Resource Listing -- Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece HOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578 ",1 "Re: thoughts on christians On Wed, 21 Apr 1993 08:16:14 GMT sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) wrote: >In article , bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu [re. Conner's questioning of the blissful afterlife as a reason why many joined the early Xian church] >Well, as I remember Jacoby's ""Mythmaker"" talks about this to cite >one source -- but I'm not sure if all Christians have read this book. >In addition my social experiences is from being raised and educated >as a Lutheran, having a lot of Christian friends, and I even >have played in two Christian rock bands! Do you mean Hyam Maccoby's _The Mythmaker_? -- Mike McAngus | The Truth is still the Truth mam@mouse.cmhnet.org | Even if you choose to ignore it. | (Some of the old .sig viruses are still the best) ",0 "Re: (?) SpeedSTAR VGA Card Win. Drivers These drivers (updated) are available directly from Diamond. they will even ship them to you at no charge.(at least they did for me.) ",2 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <1993Apr22.163758.17886@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Tree of Schnopia) writes: > In <15491@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: > >In article <852@esun179.gdc.com>, piatt@gdc.COM (Gary Piatt) writes: # ## Ahh, what's good for the goose is not necessarily what's good for # ## the gander. You don't want homosexuals to impose their moral codes # ## (such diabolical ideas as equal rights) on you, yet you are willing # ## to impose your moral codes on them. Do I detect a double standard? # ## # ## -garison # # #What do you mean? If adults want to get together for sodomy in # #private, that's their business. # # And that's precisely what they do. So what's your problem with the queer # population, boyo? The only difference between us is what we do in # private--who we love. # # ----bi Andrew D. Simchik SCHNOPIA! Do it in private, and it won't be a problem. But the reason that the homosexual activists are so hot on antidiscrimination laws is that they want: 1. To be able to wear that lovely chiffon evening gown to work, and not have people get disgusted; 2. To be able to wear their NAMBLA T-shirt and not worry about getting fired; 3. To be able to have access to young boys, so that they start making the next generation of homosexuals. If your right to privacy is what makes sodomy laws unconstitutional (a position that I agree with), then keep it private, and there won't be a problem. -- Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. ",18 "Re: Nose Picking In article stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes: > 1) Does it cause the body any harm if one picks one's nose? For example, > might it lead to a loss of ability to smell? It may be a good way to catch a cold. It's easy to pick up cold viruses on your fingers, either from touching a contaminated surface, or by shaking hands with someone that has a cold. Then putting your fingers in your nose will transfer the viruses to your nose. -- Steven Litvintchouk MITRE Corporation 202 Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730-1420 Fone: (617)271-7753 ARPA: sdl@mitre.org UUCP: linus!sdl ",13 "Paradise VGA I have a Paradise SVGA with 1Mb, the 90c030 chip (1D). The docs say that I can display the following modes : 640x480x32k colours and 800x600x32k cols if I have the RAMDAC HiColor Chip. I have checked the board and I do have such a chip. Now, the problem is that I can't get this mode to work ! Graphics Workshop 6.1 claims that it can display 24 bit images dithered down to 15 bit colour with my board, but it doesn't work. I have tried writing some assembler code to get the modes working and I have found out that each pixel is addressed by a word ( 16 bit ), but only the lower 8 bits are considered ( this happens in 800x600 mode, the 640x480 mode refuses to work i.e. remains in text mode ). Could someone please help me. Tristan ",1 "Re: ringing ears jfare@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Jim Fare) writes: >A friend of mine has a trouble with her ears ringing. [etc.] A. Folks, do we have an FAQ on tinnitus yet? B. As a lo-o-o-ong time sufferer of tinnitus and as a neuroscientist who has looked over the literature carefully I believe the following are reasonable conclusions: 1. Millions of people suffer from chronic tinnitus. 2. The cause it not understood. 3. There is no accepted treatment that cures it. 4. Some experimental treatments may have helped some people a bit, but there have be no reports--even anecdotal--of massive good results with any of these experimental drugs. 5. Some people with chronic loud tinnitus use noise blocking to get to sleep. 6. Sudden onset loud tinnitus can be caused by injuries and sometimes abates or goes away after a few months. 7. Aspirin is well known to exacerbate tinnitus in some people. 8. There is a national association of tinnitus sufferers in the US. 9. One usually gets used to it. Especially when concentrating on something else the tinnitus becomes unnoticed. 10. Stress and lack of sleep make tinnitus more annoying, sometimes. 11. I'm sure those of us who have it wish there was a cure, but there is not. Mark dubin the ol' professor ",13 "Software Sale Hi, I have the following software forsale: Microsoft MS-DOS 5.0 3.5""DD $15 -- This is a good buy for those who don't need all the utils in DOS 6.0 Accolade Hardball II 5.25""DD $10 -- Good arcade baseball game, graphics/sound are pretty good, has the ability to make schedules and edit player stats Accolade The Third Courier 5.25""HD $5 -- Adventure/Spy type game EGA Earl Weaver 2 3.5""DD $15 -- Good arcade/strategy type baseball game, you have ability to play for league play, i have MLB stats for 1990 and 1991 EGA Stormovik SU25: Soviet Attack Fighter 3.5""DD $10 -- Good fighter simulation, various missions and levels of play Sierra Thexder FireHawk 3.5"" & 5.25"" $5 -- Arcade shoot 'em up type game, nice music and sound effects Virgen Scrabble 3.5"" $5 -- computer version of the popular board game I'm willing to negotiate on the prices, prices do not include shipping. Shipping costs will be split 50/50. Drop me a line! :) Roberto Alvarez ud156844@ndsuvm1 Programmer Analyst ud156844@vm1.nodak.edu University of North Dakota adrxa@undjes2 ",6 "Serial multiport card for sale. Selling - Arnet Multiport card. Four serial ports on one card (16450s) with docs and drivers for OS/2 and DOS (works great with Unix flavors too). Aggregate is probably around 64Kb. Offers? Also willing to swap for monitor. Lee (lee@tosspot.sv.com) ",3 "Re: Dir Yassin In article 93Apr24130647@angell.cs.brown.edu, hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes: > > >From _Myths and Facts_, by Leonard J. Davis, Near East Research Inc., >1989: > >[pp. 108-109] > > ""Unlike the PLO's almost exclusive focus on civilian targets, the >100 troups from the Irgun and Stern group that struck at Deir Yassin >on April 10, 1948, targeted the village for its military importance. >Deir Yassin was on the road to Jerusalem, which the Arabs had >blockaded, and it housed Iraqi troups and Palestinian irregulars. >Snipers based in Deir Yassin were a constant threat to Jewish citizens >in Jerusalem. > > ""Arab civilians were killed at Deir Yassin, but that attack does >not conform to the propaganda picture that the Arabs have tried to >paint. The number of Arabs killed was generally reported to be about >250. In 1983, however, Eric Silver of _The Guardian_ (Britain) >interviewed a survivor, Mophammed Sammour, who testified that 116 out >of a population of 800-1000 were killed. 'About three days after the >massacre,' Sammour explained, 'representatives of each of the five >clans in Deir Yassin met at the Moslem offices in Jerusalem and made a >list of the people who had not been found (alive). We went through the >names. Nothing has happend since 1948 to make me think this figure >was wrong.' > > ""Unlike the PLO's deliberate attacks on civilians, the killing of >civilians at Deir Yassin was not premeditated. The attackers left open >an escape corridor from the village and more than 200 residents left >unharmed. why does this remind me of bosnia and ethnic cleansing ?????? tippu After the remaining Arabs feigned surrender and then fired >on the Jewish troops, some of the attackers killed Arab soldiers and >civilians indiscriminately. Independent observers told _The Guardian_ >that among the bodies they found Arab men disguised as women."" ",17 "Re: MS-Windows access for the blind? In article mtrottie@emr1.emr.ca (Marc Trottier) writes: >In article <1993Apr22.172514.13025@cci632.cci.com> jfb@cci632.cci.com (John Bruno) writes: >>From: jfb@cci632.cci.com (John Bruno) >>Subject: MS-Windows access for the blind? >>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 17:25:14 GMT >>We are developing an MS-Windows based product that uses a full screen window >>to display ~24 rows of textual data. Is there any product for Microsoft Windows >>that will enable blind individuals to access the data efficiently (quickly) ?? >> >>Please email responses and I will post a summary to this group. >> >>Thanks for any help >>--- John Bruno >> > >Apparently, Microsoft came out with a new product: MS-Braille it is suppose >to be ""WYTIWIG"". :-) > >No offense. > > > Marc Trottier / mtrottie@emr1.emr.ca > > AT the MICRO$OFT display at FOSE, there were a few computers running windows, and win. apps for the blind, I think. Didn't pay much attention to it, but it was there. Mickey -- pe-|| || MICHAEL PANAYIOTAKIS: louray@seas.gwu.edu ace|| || ...!uunet!seas.gwu.edu!louray |||| \/| *how do make a ms-windows .grp file reflect a HD directory??* \\\\ | ""well I ain't always right, but I've never been wrong..""(gd) ",2 "Re: New Study Out On Gay Percentage In article <15436@optilink.COM>, cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: |> If you don't care, why was so much effort put into promoting the |> 10% lie? Because it was important to scare politicians into |> obedience. |> Perhaps you should change your name to Clayton ""Mr Logic(NOT!)"" Cramer! Please give evidence of the above statement or shut up. I believe that I may have answered that elsewhere, amongst your other ravings. |> -- |> Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer My opinions, all mine! |> Relations between people to be by mutual consent, or not at all. -- +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) | | eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! | +-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ",18 "Re: How does a pitcher get a save? In article <1993Apr23.135139.18749@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes: > > The subject line says it all. What is the rule that qualifies > a pitcher as making a save? > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As far as I know, a save opportunity is when it is 7th inning or beyond, and the batter on deck can either tie or win the ball game. For example If it is the bottom of the 8th inning and Clemens is pithching. The Red Sox are leading 4-1 and Clemens has just givin up a hit. So, there is a man on first, the batter, and the batter on deck could tie the game with a homer. If Jeff Russel came in, (The Red Sox reliever), and finished the game without allowing the tieing or losing run to score, he would get the save and Clemens would get the win. Thats how I beleive it works. Hope I could help, -THE COWBOY- ",9 "A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMAD SAW, PART-1 DROPLET VOL 1, No 11, Part 1 A D R O P L E T From The Vast Ocean Of The Miraculous Qur'an Translations from the Arabic and Turkish Writings of Bediuzzaman Said Nursi, The Risale-i Noor VOL 1, No 11, Part 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------ NINETEENTH LETTER MU'JIZAT-I AHMEDIYE RISALESI (A TREATISE ON THE MIRACLES OF MUHAMMAD SAW) (SAW: PEACE AND BLESSINGS BE UPON HIM) In His Name (ALLAH) , Be He (ALLAH) Glorified! There is Nothing But Glorifies His (ALLAH's) Praise. In The Name Of Allah, The Compassionate, The Merciful ""He is who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to make it supreme over all religion: and sufficient is Allah as a Witness. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are firm against the unbelievers and merciful among each other. You will see them bowing and prostrating themselves, seeking Allah's grace and His pleasure. Their mark is on their face the sing of prostrafion; this is their similitude in the Torah and Indgil."" [the Our'an 48:28-29] Since the Nineteenth and Thirhy-first Words concerning the mission of Muhammad (SAW) prove his prophethood with decisive evidences, we assign the verification of that subject to those Words. As a supplement to them, we will merely show here in Nineteen Signs, some of the flashes of that great truth. FIRST SIGN: The Owner and Master of this universe does everything with knowledge, disposes every affair with wisdom, directs everything all-seeingly, treats everything all-knowingly, and arranges in everything with His will and wisdom such causes, purposes and uses that are apparent to us. Since the One who creates knows, surely the One who knows will speak, since He will speak, surely He will speak to those who have consciousness, thought, and speech. Since He will speak to those who have thought, surely He will speak to humankind, whose make-up and awareness are more comprehensive of all conscious beings. Since He will speak to humankind, surely He will speak to the most perfect of mankind and those most worthy of address and highest in morality, and who are qualified to guide humanity; then He will certainly speak to Muhammad (SAW), who, as friend and foe alike testify, is of the highest character and morality, and who is obeyed by one fifth of humanity, to whose spiritual rule half of the globe has submitted, with the radiance of whose light has been illumined the future of mankind for thirteen centuries, to whom the believers, the luminous segment of humanity, renew their oath of allegiance five times a day, for whose happiness and peace they pray, for whom they call down Allah's blessings and bear admiration and love in their hearts. Certainly, He will speak to Muhammad (SAW), and Indeed He has done so; He will make him the Messenger, and Indeed He has done so; He will make him the guide for the rest of humanity, and Indeed He has done so. ----------------------------------------------------------------- To be continued In$a Allah. Your Br. Irfan in Islam. ",19 "NATIONAL DAY Of PRAYER The N A T I O N A L D A Y o f P R A Y E R 6 M A Y 1 9 9 3 IMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM; : : : JOIN AMERICA IN PRAYER TO: : : : : * Acknowledge our dependence upon God; : : : : * Give thanks for His many blessings; : : : : * Ask God to guide our leaders and to : : bring healing, reconciliation and whole- : : ness to our nation and all its people. : : : HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM< OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SAID... George Washington: ""I now make it my earnest prayer that God... (A.D. 1783) would be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with charity and humility, and a pacific temper of mind, which were characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of Whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation."" John Adams: ""It must be felt that there is no national security (A.D. 1853) but in the nation's humble, acknowledged dependence upon God and His overruling providence."" Abraham Lincoln: ""It is the duty of nations, as well as of men, (A.D. 1863) to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions...and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord..."" NOTE: You can join with people in your area in observing the NATIONAL DAY Of PRAYER. To learn who is affiliated with the Concerts Of Prayer group in your area, contact: Mr. Barry Garred, Coordinator P.O. Box 6637 Springdale, ARkansas 72766 VOICE: (501) 756-8421 FAX: (501) 756-0131 ",15 "Selective Placebo L(> levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) writes: L(> John Badanes wrote: L(> |JB> 1) Ron...what do YOU consider to be ""proper channels""... L(> L(> | I'm glad it caught your eye. That's the purpose of this forum to L(> | educate those, eager to learn, about the facts of life. That phrase L(> | is used to bridle the frenzy of all the would-be respondents, who L(> | otherwise would feel being left out as the proper authorities to be L(> | consulted on that topic. In short, it means absolutely nothing. L(> L(> An apt description of the content of just about all Ron Roth's L(> posts to date. At least there's entertainment value (though it L(> is diminishing). Well, that's easy for *YOU* to say. All *YOU* have to do is sit back, soak it all in, try it out on your patients, and then brag to all your colleagues about that incredibly success rate you're having all of a sudden... --Ron-- --- RoseReader 2.00 P003228: For real sponge cake, borrow all ingredients. RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363 ",13 "Re: Good Reasons to Wave at each other jlevine@rd.hydro.on.ca (Jody Levine) writes: >Has anyone, while driving a cage, ever waved at bikers? I get the urge, >but I've never actually done it. Yup. Do it whenever I am in the cage (which is not often if its riding weather ... ie no snow). I find arm out and down and kinda finger wave works best for sport bikes and arm out/up works best for Harleys. Similar to how I wave when I am on the bike. >Let's see how many posts it takes for someone to selectively quote this article Yah mean like.. >I get the urge, but I've never actually done it. Done what? Why Jody we would never, ever even dream of assuming that a young lady of such refined breeding and taste would even consider such things. I mean some matters do not even have to be discussed, by civilized beings... But, in confidence, just between the ""two of us"", not even once. Or perhaps got excited thinking about it. I know that I do... ;-> bj...bradw@Newbridge.com... no .sig no .plan no.clue >> DoD# 255 << ",8 "Spring Cleaning Sale! Time once again to clean out the ol' closet. Some stuff is up for offers, some isn't. Please read carefully. In the MAKE OFFER department: WordPerfect 5.0, upgrade copy. Includes all disks and all upgrade manuals. Best offer. Balance of Power, 1992 edition, for the Amiga. With manual and reg. card. Best offer. In the FOR SALE department: Technics model 715 auto-reverse open-reel STEREO tape deck. Because it's auto-reverse, this deck records onto tape just like a cassette deck does, so it's not very good for splice-type editing. However, I have used it effectively in ""tape studio"" applications for mastering, and it works great. 3.75 and 7.5 ips speeds, supports up to 7"" reels. Dual lighted VU meters with record indicators. Full auto-reverse capable (and the mechanism works, too!). Adjustable sound on sound, and socket for remote control (I don't know where you'd find one, but they used to make 'em), plus a 110VAC unswitched outlet. This unit is in excellent condition and I have had it rebuilt once since I got it--works perfectly. Price: $225.00 or best offer, or possible trade (see below). Panasonic KX-P1624 printer. 24-pin with 360x360dpi resolution in both text and graphics modes. Warranty cards, manuals, all the usual stuff you expect when buying like-new merchandise. I'm selling it because I now have a better printer. This is the wide carriage version of the KX-P1124, by the way. Test prints are available upon request. Price: $250.00 o.b.o. or trade. Excalibur custom pool cue. 19 oz., 13 mm, brass joint, Irish linen wrap, could use a new tip but will hold up for a while. I've got too many cues as it is, and don't need this one. Hits nicely, is very straight and in excellent condition. Price: $125.00 o.b.o. or trade. Imperial hard case (1 butt/1 shaft) available for an additional $40.00. TRADES: I need the following things, and I have no cash of my own right now, so if you want to trade, it needs to be straight-across. The list: Amiga ROM upgrade to at LEAST 2.04, preferably 2.1+, with appropriate DOS and Workbench. 1 meg Agnus chip for the Amiga. Amiga hard drive and controller (preferably SCSI). IBM-compatible hard drive (and controller if not MFM). This one's touchy, as I have a full-height and don't have room for more unless I swap out--needs to be above 100M, and I will consider trading a good ST-4096 in the deal. Intel 9600EX or 14.4EX or similar EXTERNAL high-speed modem. This is not a complete list, but it's close. If you've got something way off the track of this list, it's probably not going to interest me at this point. Email responses, please. ",6 "Hyslop and _The_Two_Babylons_ Seeing as how _The_Two_Babylons_ has been brought up again, it is time for me to respond , once again, and say that this book is junk. It is nothing more that an anti-Catholic tract of the sort published ever since the there were protestants. Its scholarship is phony and its assertions spurious. -- C. Wingate + ""The peace of God, it is no peace, + but strife closed in the sod. mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing: tove!mangoe + the marv'lous peace of God."" ",15 "Re: Jays' Darrin Jackson is a nightmare! > >Give Jackson a break...he lost about 10 pounds with that flu he had >when he was traded. > DJ was a popular player in San Diego, Derek Bell was not faring well in the clubhouse at Toronto, so no matter how bad he looks now I still think it was a steal for the Jays just from the perspective of team chemistry. No statistic can describe it (sorry statheads) and since there are so many new faces in the clubhouse I think the Jays are still trying to find it. (Insert the same comment into the Jack Morris v. Clemens WS Ring string) Yet at first I was sad to see Derek go, still anticipating all of the talent they raved about at the beginning of last season. I'm glad to see him faring well for the Padres though. -- Eric ",9 "82 TOYOTA Tercel | 2Dr | 125K | Good Condition | Make me an offer Hi: I have a '82 Blue TOYOTA Corolla/Tercel for sale: Reason for seeling this great little car is my new Celica. Car Specifications: 1982 Toyota Corolla/Tercel 5-Speed 125K miles 2 Door Blue Air conditioning/Heat AM/FM stereo Well taken care off and maintained clean New Battery, Timing Belt, and fan belt. Inspection sticker valid until 02/94 A tough car, generally go above 200K miles. Make me an offer. E-mail : reddy@ulysses.att.com phone : (908) 582-3861 (Work) (201) 635-3705 (Home) Kishore Reddy -- ________________________________________________________________________________ #include ""std_disclaimer.h"" ________________________________________________________________________________ Kishore P. Reddy AT&T Bell Laboratories ",6 "Re: Screw the people, crypto is for hard-core hackers & spooks only In article , jhart@agora.rain.com (Jim Hart) writes: > Since the wiretap chip is being distributed internationally, > allowing the U.S. government to spy on foreign governments, > companies and people as as well as to wiretap domestic citizens, > this is a world-wide issue. Please put DISTRIBUTION: WORLD on the > Distrubution: line. Thank you. No! Distribution keywords are case sensitive. What you want is Distribution: world or no Distribution line at all. ""WORLD"" in capital letters is wrong. --apb Alan Barrett, Dept. of Electronic Eng., Univ. of Natal, Durban, South Africa RFC822: barrett@ee.und.ac.za ",11 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. In article <1rls95$9aj@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: > In article gfk39017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George F. Krumins) writes: > |I say: > |What I'm objecting to here is a floating billboard that, presumably, > |would move around in the sky. I, for one, am against legislating > |at all. I just wish that people had a bit of common courtesy, and > |would consider how their greed for money impacts the more ethereal and >>aesthetic values that make us human. This includes the need for wild >>and unspoiled things, including the night sky. > > > Sorry that's an aesthetics argument. maybe this string shoudl mofe to > sci.space.aesthetics. > > Planes ruin the night sky. Blimps ruin the night sky. Radio towers > ruin the night sky. > > Like i said, get a vote, and create some more national parks. which > include onobstructed air space. > > Hokay - I am hereby voting my backyard to be a sanctuary - one acre where I can object to anything I do not like for aesthetic reasons. <::-) What a relief to know we both can be happy. ",14 "Re: Photo radar (was Re: rec.autos: Frequently In article 2211@viewlogic.com, brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes: > >In article <1993Mar20.050303.8401@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>, welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes: > >|> Q: What is Ka band radar? Where is it used? Should a radar detector be >|> able to handle it? >|> >|> A: Ka band has recently been made available by the FCC for use in the US >|> in so-called photo-radar installations. In these installations, a >|> low-powered beam is aimed across the road at a 45 degree angle to the >|> direction of traffic, and a picture is taken of vehicles which the >|> radar unit determines to have been in violation of the speed limit. >|> Tickets are mailed to the owner of the vehicle. Because of the low >|> power and the 45 degree angle, many people believe that a radar >|> detector cannot give reasonable warning of a Ka band radar unit, >|> although some manufacturers of radar detectors have added such >|> capability anyway. The number of locales where photo-radar is in use >|> is limited, and some question the legality of such units. Best advice: >|> learn what photo radar units look like, and keep track of where they >|> are used (or else, don't speed.) > >Photo radar and mailed tickets make no sense at all. Speeding is a moving >violation, committed by the operator, not the owner. The owner may be a >rental agency, a dealer, a private party, or a government agency. As long >as the owner has no reason to expect the operator will be driving illegally >or unsafely, the owner cannot be held responsible for what the operator does. >The car may even have been driven without the owner's knowledge or consent. >I can't believe a mailed ticket, where the driver is not identified, would >stand up in court. This is obviously a lazy, cynical, boneheaded, fascist >way to extort revenue, and has nothing to do with public safety. > >- BK > We had those f*****g photo-radar things here in Sweden a while ago. There was a lot of fuzz about them, and a lot of sabotage too (a spray-can with touch-up paint can do a lot of good...). Eventually they had to drop the idea as there were a lot of court-cases where the owner of the car could prove he didn't drive it at the time of speeding. I especially recall a case where it eventually proved to be a car-thief that had stolen a car and made false plates. He, ofcourse, chose a license number of a identical car, so the photo seemed correct... In conclosion: Photo-radar sucks, every way you look at it! / Markus ",7 "Re: What does the .bmp format mean? In article robertsa@unix2.tcd.ie (Andrew L. Roberts) writes: >What exactly does the windows bitmap format look like? I mean, how is >the data stored: width, height, no. of colours, bitmap data? I couldn't >find anything in ths user manual, is there any other reference material >which would give me this information? > >Thanks, >Andrew Well, this is *only* a guess: If it goes by the ""true"" meaning of ""bit map"", then it holds (x,y,c) where x pixel number in th ex-direction, y: pixel-number in the y-dir, c: colour. -- pe-|| || MICHAEL PANAYIOTAKIS: louray@seas.gwu.edu ace|| || ...!uunet!seas.gwu.edu!louray |||| \/| *how do make a ms-windows .grp file reflect a HD directory??* \\\\ | ""well I ain't always right, but I've never been wrong..""(gd) ",2 "Re: PoV Ray Related Group NEEDED >hed@cats.ucsc.edu (Magic Fingers) writes: >>In article <1993May13.011926.4728@exucom.com> cyberman@exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips) writes: >>If it takes making it an alt group, then why not? I've been following >>this thread for, what has it been, two months now? >The alt.* hierarchie is created for 2 purposes: >1. For groups which do not fit under the comp.* or other 'official' > hierarchies >2. For the fast creation of hot new newsgroups like alt.gulf.war >Because there is no voting process or any other control facilities, >sites are free to decide not to carry (some of) the alt groups. >Therefore, it is (I think) desirable to try to create comp.graphics. >{raytrace, rendering or whatever} and not an alt-group > >Wouter Very good point. Is there someone out there that is working on this? I'd offer my time to help manage/do it all myself but yaw'll are not going to hear from me over the summer. I'm not trying to be pushy, and there is being progress made (re: pov mailing list). -hed -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^advertisement^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^advertisement^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DON'T MISS THIS ONE TIME ONLY SALE SALE SALE SALE! H.E.D.tech is now selling thier now model JED002 series geek-bot! This is a limited time offer, at a 300% reduction from our usual price of $8000 dollars... BUY ONE NOW! DON'T WAIT, SALE ENDS SUNDAY! ^^^^^^^^^^^^advertisement^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^adveritisement^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ",1 "Re: Kyle K. on Rodney King In article kkopp@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (koppenhoefer kyle cramm) writes: >thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes: >>In article kkopp@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (koppenhoefer kyle cramm) writes: >>>How about the fact that you have a bunch of cops putting their lives on >>>the line day in and day out who are afraid as hell of a large black guy that >> ^^^^^ >>>took a large amount of punishment and refused submit? >>> >>I'm curious why you think that particular adjective is important. > > Black is a descriptive adjective that describes Mr. King. From many >of the newspaper, radio, and tv news reports I have seen, this adjective >is commonly in front of his name. I have NEVER seen anyone complain about >the use of this adjective when used in a benign manner. I did not say that >Mr. King was a no good black! I do not know Mr. King and would not make this >ascertian without some evidence to this effect. I used it PURELY as a >descriptive adjective in the same manner than many ( most ) news people have >used it in the past. No one is questioning whether Mr. King is black. The question arises whether King's race should make police officers ""afraid as hell."" Your statement seems to imply that cops should have a different standard for large black guys than for just large guys in general. That two posts later you don't understand why anyone pointed out your use of the adjective is almost as informative as your original use. -- ted frank | thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | I'm sorry, the card says ""Moops."" the u of c law school | standard disclaimers | ",18 "Help ! Miro Crystal or ATI GUP ? I'm planning to buy a new VLB/EISA system with a good graphic performance. So far I looked at the ATI GUP VLB as my favorite graphics-card. But recently I heard something about a new card from Miro. It was the Miro Crystal 24s with 3 MB and True Color support up to 1024x768. It costs just a little more than the ATI. So, can't decide which one matches better my needs. Any technical references and performance comparisons (especially from the Miro card) would be greatly appreciated. -Peter- E-Mail : kohut1@urz.unibas.ch ****************************** **** Universitas Basiliensis ***** **** Switzerland ***** ******************************** ",1 "Re: Clipper -- some new thoughts The cryptographic algorythm MUST be kept secret, or private individuals could make ClipperClones with which they could transmit messages which the feds would not have ready access to. This is clearly unacceptable. I hope somebody starts doing this soon after the first ones are released... ",11 "Re: Long term Human Missions Ken Hayashida (khayash@hsc.usc.edu) wrote: : Mike Adams suggested discussions on long-term effects of spaceflight : to the human being. I love this topic, as some of you regulars know. : So, having seen Henry's encouraging statement about starting to talk : about it; I shall. : I feel that we as a community of people have unique resources : to deliver to the world a comprehensive book which can elaborate : on the utility of spaceflight to fields which are as divergent : as medical intensive care, agriculture, environmental protection, and : probably more. I do not believe that the general public understands : the impact of spaceflight on the whole of society. In the absence : of such knowledge, we see dwindling support of the world's space effort. Just a few contributions from the space program to ""regular"" society: 1. Calculators 2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan) 3. Pacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988) p.s. To all the regular contributors to sci.space.news and sci.space.shuttle, thanks for all your hard work keeping us informed as to the doings down in NASA and other space-type agencies. I don't have much time to read USENET, but I ALWAYS read these two groups.... -- Robert E. Kaye Asst. Sys Admin Surgical Information Systems Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center Chicago, IL USA Internet: rek@siss81.rpslmc.edu Voice: (312) 942-5891 FAX: (312) 942-4228 _____ _____ / ^ ^ \ / _ _ \ Support your local Community Theater Groups...! | o o | | o o | | \_/ | | /-\ | St. Marcellene's Church in Schaumburg Il. presents: \___/ \___/ ""Meet Me in St. Louis"" opening April 30th. ",14 "Re: Blow up space station, easy way to do it. In article <1993Apr5.184527.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >This might a real wierd idea or maybe not.. > > >Why musta space station be so difficult?? why must we have girders? why be >confined to earth based ideas, lets think new ideas, after all space is not >earth, why be limited by earth based ideas?? > Choose any or all of the following as an answer to the above: 1. Politics 2. Traditions 3. Congress 4. Beauracrats ",14 "Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR In article <1993Apr15.010745.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu writes: >or second starter. It seems to me that when quality pitchers take the >mound, the other teams score less runs. The team that scores the most >runs wins. This puts the team with the better pitching at the advantage >(providing they can stop the opposing team from scoring runs). A low >scoring game would clearly benefit the Braves. Not clear to me at all. I'd certainly rather have a team who was winning 4-1 games than 2-1 games. In the 2-1 game, luck is going to play a much bigger role than in the 4-1 game. Sherri Nichols snichols@adobe.com ",9 "Re: My original post (Was Jesus Black?) My, my, my. I knew that I would receive a response to my post, but not THIS extensive. Thank you to all who responded; it at least showed that people were willing to think about it, even though the general response was a return to the same old ""Why should it matter?"" question. To those of you who were a part of this response, I suggest that you read the articles covering this same question in soc.culture.african.american, for you are in DIRE need of some cultural enlightenment. Hasta luego Sherlette ",15 "Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Fri., Apr. 16th, 1993 In article <1qmj6h$m5h@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes: >Houston Astros 1 Seattle Mariners 1 >Montreal Expos 2 Toronto Blue Jays 3 >New York Mets 3 Oakland Athletics 2 >Colorado Rockies 5 Detroit Tigers 3 >Pittsburgh Pirates 5 Kansas City Royals 5 >San Diego Padres 4 (13) New York Yankees 4 >St. Louis Cardinals 4 Cleveland Indians 3 >Los Angeles Dodgers 2 Boston Red Sox 4 (13) >Atlanta Braves 1 California Angels PPD >San Francisco Giants 6 Milwaukee Brewers RAIN This leads me to believe that it's not really a rabbitball year, and that we've just had a rash of high-scoring games. I bet this one day's worth of games pulled everything back to close to average. Interesting, because the other day, all but three games had ten or more runs scored, and yesterday no game had more than nine. -- ted frank | thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu | I'm sorry, the card says ""Moops."" the u of c law school | standard disclaimers | ",9 "Re: Comet in Temporary Orbit Around Jupiter? In article <1993Apr19.020359.26996@sq.sq.com>, msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes: >> > Can these questions be answered for a previous >> > instance, such as the Gehrels 3 that was mentioned in an earlier posting? > >> Orbital Elements of Comet 1977VII (from Dance files) >> p(au) 3.424346 >> e 0.151899 >> i 1.0988 >> cap_omega(0) 243.5652 >> W(0) 231.1607 >> epoch 1977.04110 > > >> Also, perihelions of Gehrels3 were: >> >> April 1973 83 jupiter radii >> August 1970 ~3 jupiter radii > > Where 1 Jupiter radius = 71,000 km = 44,000 mi = 0.0005 AU. So the > 1970 figure seems unlikely to actually be anything but a perijove. > Is that the case for the 1973 figure as well? > -- Sorry, _perijoves_...I'm not used to talking this language. John Garland jgarland@kean.ucs.mun.ca ",14 "Re: Once tapped, your code is no good any more. In article holland@CS.ColoState.EDU (douglas craig holland) writes: >Note that measures to protect yourself from >TEMPEST surveillance are still classified, as far as I know. I think this to be inaccurate. One can buy TEMPEST equipment commercially. Even Macs. David -- David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of our information, errors and omissions excepted. ",11 "Siggraph 1987 Course Notes I am looking for a copy of the following Siggraph publication: Gomez, J.E. ""Comments on Event Driven Annimation,"" Siggraph Course Notes, 10, 1987. If anyone knows of a location where I can obtain a copy of these notes, I would appreciate if they could let me know. Thanks. dkusswur@falcon.depaul.edu ",1 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In <1993Apr15.074615.957@abo.fi> MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka) writes: >In lis450bw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > (Is that you, Mike Cobb, or is someone else using a ""MAC"" sig?) > (And why on earth was this crossposted to talk.abortion?) >> My definition of objective would be absolute, or fixed, rather than >> subjective, or varying and changing. > Inotherwords, any moral system (that _is_ still what we're talking >about, right?) can be 'objective', provided you stick to it no matter >what? Doesn't sound good to me, stifles progress. Yup. This is me. I don't know why it crossposted. I was accessing nn from another system and that might have caused the glitch. I hold that an objective moral system exists regardless of my knowledge or application of it. I relate it to the idea that there is scientific truth that is truth even though I may not know about it. Some morals I wouldn't want to change, and would not consider it progress for a society to oneday say that rape and murder are ok. Some underlying themes (morality, honesty, courage, respect, etc.) are used to base actions. I don't consider the idea that we should have been moral, should be moral now, and should be so in the future a limitation, when it includes such morality. Aberrances in a moral system, i.e. it is immoral to marry someone of the opposite sex, it is immoral to listen to rock and roll, etc. seem to be different than the above lists, and if specific actions are given moral status I tend to question those morals. MAC >-- > Disclaimer? ""It's great to be young and insane!"" -- **************************************************************** Michael A. Cobb ""...and I won't raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois class to pay for my programs."" Champaign-Urbana -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu With new taxes and spending cuts we'll still have 310 billion dollar deficits. ",19 "Re: BUFFALO 4, Boston 0: Defense!! In article <1993Apr21.063836.4412@ncsu.edu> delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu (DERRELL EMERY LAROCQUE) writes: > > Tonight in Boston, the Buffalo Sabres blanked the Boston >Bruins 4-0 tonight in Boston. Looks like Boston can hang >this season up, because Buffalo's home record is awesome!!!! >This is great.. Buffalo fans might get to see revenge for >last year!!!!! :) I'm glad Grant Fuhr will never be as over-confident after two wins as you are...it takes four wins to defeat an opponent...each tougher to obtain than the previous one. Buffalo is off to a good start... Fuhr is proving the Fuhr-bashers wrong, but Boston is an awfully good team. Gerald ",10 "Re: Used BMW Question ..... ??? In article <1993Apr12.230031.160616@ua1ix.ua.edu> rpaturi@ho12.eng.ua.edu (Ravi) writes: > >Hi, >I am dying to get the answer for the pricing polocy of a dealer >here in San Jose, California (I moved to caal from AL) You moved from Alabama to California? My sympathies. >Year Model Description Milage Price >1991 318 Black, ""Looks"" good 46K 10.6K > 5sp manual, AC, > Cassette, Sun roof > >1989 318 White same as aboove 50K 9.6K > Make sure that they have all maintenance records. Oil should be changed every 3 months. The mileage on the cars is fine. Be sure that these have the 16 valve engine. The 8 valve 318 is a BMW in name only. Didn't you have a line on a '89 325i for 12K? Jump on it. -- Phil Mueller pamuelle@ingr.com -OR- pamuelle@nc2145.b30.ingr.com AMA: 686532 DOD: 132569 1991 Suzuki Bandit 1977 BMW R100/7 ",7 "Re: When are two people married in God's eyes? In article cs89mcd@brunel.ac.uk (Michael C Davis) writes: [it has to do with honoring the laws of the state, and] >also to do with how people will perceive us; i.e. it is culturally insensitive >to declare yourself married without going through a civil ceremony.) I would go further: if a couple are unwilling to have their commitment publicly witnessed and recorded, that's prima facie evidence that the commitment isn't really there. -- :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : ***** :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : ********* :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * * :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <>< ",15 "Re: THE CLIPPER CHIP: A TECHNICAL SUMMARY Pat Myrto says if law enforcement wants keys, let them get a court order and then ask him for them. Most use of probably cause wiretapping warrants isn't to decrypt historical traffic, but for prospective listening once probably cause is established. Pat's approach would tip off the crooks. David -- David Sternlight Great care has been taken to ensure the accuracy of our information, errors and omissions excepted. ",11 "Re: xterm fonts bernward@moepi.do.open.de (Bernward Averwald) writes: >In article <1993May11.133626.7425@taylor.uucp> mark@taylor.uucp (Mark A. Davis) writes: >>I have a problem which many of you might have run into. We use LOTS of >>ASCII terminals and use them to the max. Meaning lots of attributes, line >> >>This means needing all attributes to work, including bold and line drawing. >>The only fonts which seem to meet these criteria are a pairs of fonts in >>which one is bold and the other normal, while both have linedraw, fixed >>spacing, and several sizes. >> >>The only standard fonts which work are the fonts like 9x15 and 9x15B under >>""misc"". They work great, except I need a font one size larger, 10x20. Now >>10x20 works well, but there is no bold counterpart! >> >You don't need a 'bold' counterpart. From `man xterm`: > -fb font > This option specifies a font to be used when dis- > playing bold text. This font must be the same > height and width as the normal font. If only one > of the normal or bold fonts is specified, it will > be used as the normal font and the bold font will > be produced by overstriking this font. The > default is to do overstriking of the normal font. I have tried that with one font, if your xterm terminfos/termcaps are set up to NOT remap bold (which they are be default) to reverse, then nothing happens when bold is displayed. It would appear (at least in X11R4) than you cannot display bold in an xterm without specifying two fonts; a normal and a bold. I wish someone would prove that incorrect. -- /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Mark A. Davis | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 | | Sys.Administrator| Computer Services | mark@taylor / mark@taylor.UUCP | \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/ ",5 "Re: Some more about gun control... In article jrutledg@cs.ulowell.edu (John Lawrence Rutledge) wrote: > In article <1q96tpINNpcn@gap.caltech.edu> arc@cco.caltech.edu > (Aaron Ray Clements) writes: > >The Second Amendment is a guarantee of the right to bear arms. Clearly > >and unequivocally, without infringement. > Unfortunately the Second Amendment is not as clear as you state. If last > part of it is taken along, it follows what you have said. The problem > I have is with the first part of the single sentence which makes up the > amendment. The Second Amendment is: > A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security ^^^^^^^ Militia > of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear ^^^^^ State > arms, shall not be infringed. ^^^^ Arms You didn't even get the capitalization correct! Try reading USCA on the Constitution, or get any other CORRECT version of the Constitution. > This mention of a well regulated militia is what confuses me. According > to the Federalist Paper's, a well regulated militia has a well defined > structure and follows nationally uniform regulations. Perhaps you should actually READ the Federalist Papers!! James Madison, Federalist Paper 46: ""Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, 8 June 1789: ""The right of the people to keep and bear... arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..."" Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper 29 (on the organization of the militia): ""Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year."" Alexander Hamilton, Federalist Paper 29 (speaking of standing armies): ""... if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^***** own rights and those of their fellow-citizens."" ***^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ But *surely* Hamilton and Madison didn't mean the PEOPLE when they said ""people"", right? That's why the Amendment refers to ""the Right of the Militia""?... ;-) > Your average > 17-45 year old male does not fall into the definition. You're right, the Militia consists of ALL able bodied males (and probably females under current interpretation). > Therefore most > members of The Militia, the one the every gun advocate refers to, are > not members of a well organized militia and therefore are not directly The Amendment does nor refer to ""well organized"", it says ""well regulated"". I have some targets you may examine if you wish to check how _well regulated_ I am. > mentioned in the amendment. > If this amendment wanted to allow every member of The Militia to keep > and bear arms, why did it specificly mention a ""well organized militia"" > in the SAME SENTENCE as the right to keep and bear arms? Correct. That's why the Right is reserved to the People. And that was to insure the People could form a ""well regulated Militia"", not a ""well organized militia"". > It could be > argued that the first part of the sentence is separate from the last > part. If so, why was it include in the same atomic unit of written What do Atomic Units have to do with this argument? Any moron can set h_bar = C = 1... > instead of a separate sentence? Oh, I see what your question is; Why don't you read the federalist Papers?! James Madison, Federalist Paper 41 (regarding the ""General Welfare"" clause): ""Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars."" But what does Madison know about the grammatical style of the 2nd? He only wrote it. > The amendment also implies that the right to arms has to due with > the security of a free state. The Federalist Paper's mention of a > well regulated militia gives many examples of how this militia protects > the security of a free state. All these examples are actions of a > very organized force, not some John Q. Public with a gun. That's obviously because you've never actually *read* the Federalist Papers. > All that the Second Amendment clearly states to me is that the people's > right to form well regulated militias shall not be infringed. That is > people have the right to join a well organized militia. This well > organized militia will, of course, provide training in how to use arms > and in basic military tactics. These training members of the militia > can keep and bear the arms. Can't read, huh? Show me where the document says ""well organized militia"". > Lastly, reading through the Federalist Paper's on well organized > militia it is very clear that many of the reasons for these militias. > One reason stated is the protection from a standing army. These days > the standing army could easily defeat a group consisting of every > 17-45 year old male and female not in the armied forces. That is *exactly* why EVERY PERSON should be allowed to own *any* weapon currently in use in the armed forces. > Another > reason stated for well organized militias is to reduced the need > for a standing army. Well, the US Armied Forces have been a standing > army for more than half the history of the US. But the major reason is to protect against that very same army. > It seems to me the whole reason for the Second Amendment, to give > the people protection from the US government by guaranteeing that the > people can over through the government if necessary, is a little bit > of an anachronism is this day and age. Maybe its time to re-think > how this should be done and amend the constitution appropriately. Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861: ""This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."" Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, 17 August 1789: ""What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. ... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."" So now we know which category Mr. Rutledge is in; He means to destroy our Liberties and Rights. -- Charles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu Dept of Physics, Michigan Tech, Houghton, MI 49931 ------------------------------------------------------------- ""...when all government... in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the centre of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."" Thomas Jefferson, 1821 ",16 "Re: Bo was a good player, you shorts (plus idiots) In article , drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes: > BO JACKSON 1963 > 1988 KCR 437 106 16 4 23 28 29 7 .253 67 .243 .288 .455 > 1989 KCR 517 134 19 5 33 41 27 10 .274 92 .259 .314 .507 > 1990 KCR 405 110 17 1 27 44 16 9 .286 77 .272 .343 .519 > 1991 CWS 71 16 3 0 3 12 0 1 .240 10 .225 .337 .394 > MAJ 1430 366 55 10 86 125 72 27 .270 246 .256 .316 .489 > MAJ 598 153 23 4 36 52 30 11 > > This is what Jackson looked like in 88-91, with everything converted > to a neutral park, on the basis of run production. His equivalent > average started at .253 in 88, was up to .274 in 89 and 286 in 90. So > let us say he had established, in his last two seasons, a .280 level > of play. I'm not quite sure how these numbers are generated. It appears that in a neutral park Bo's HR and slugging tend to drop (he actually loses two home runs). Or do they? What is ""equivalent average?"" One thing, when looking at Bo's stats, is that you can see that KC took away some homers. Normally, you expect some would-be homers to go for doubles or triples in big parks, or to be caught, and for that matter you expect lots of doubles and triples anyway. But Bo, despite his speed, hit very few doubles and not that many triples. So I would expect his value to have risen quite considerably in a neutral park. > That is good. Very good, in fact. But it probably doesn't make the top > ten in the league. The 10th best EQA in the AL in 1992 was Dave > Winfield's .296; Thomas was first at .350. First in the NL was Bonds, > an incroyable .378; tenth was Bip Roberts, .297. But .280 is better > than any season in the past five years by Joe Carter; it is about what > Mattingly had in 1988 (.285); what Felix Jose had the last two years; > just ahead of Time Raines' five-year average; better than Ryan > Klesko's MLEs. Felix Jose has been a .350/.440 player in a fairly neutral park. I would offhand guess the `89-`90 Bo at around a .330/.530 player. Maybe .330/.550 . Not even close. > He got more attention from the media than was warranted from his > baseball playing, though; his hype was a lot better than his hitting. > That is the basis for the net.comments about him being overrated. The > media would have you beleive he was a great hitter. I think he was a > good, maybe very good hitter. He was IMO, something like the 30th best > hitter in the majors. I'd put him about there too. Note: I hadn't realized the media had hyped him so much. I thought he was always viewed by them as a better football player, and only so-so at baseball. He did only have one 30-hr, 100-rbi season, and KC wasn't winning. Note 2: I maybe have harped on this a bit in the past, but there is a mistake being made (by the SDCN's, as they are known, on this group) with respect to players like Bo and Deion and Lofton (and perhaps others). We find, that if you look at a large group of players, their past major and minor league numbers will predict their future numbers fairly well. Their are some caveats: the younger they are, the less good the prediction; the lower the minor league, the less good (I imagine), the more recent the player has left college ball, etc. Now of course, this prediction involves quite a bit of ""error."" Sometimes a player with poor MLE's (Dave Justice, the 1990 Ventura) becomes a star. Some hitters develop (Shane Mack, Brian Downing), some don't (Oddibe McDowell, Mickey Brantley). This error involves real things: there are real reasons why Oddibe didn't hit and Shane did. It may (who knows) involve parks and batting coaches and wheaties and injuries and lifting and so on. But still, you have this big pool of players, and things work pretty well. One of the reasons for these predictions accuracy is the common background of the players. One thing we know about professional baseball players is that all of them (or almost all) have spent a good deal of time playing ball. Their backgrounds are similar. What hasn't been established is what happens when you encounter a player with a different background? Is there some reason to believe that a Bo, or a Deion, or a Lofton, or a Tony Gwynn (?), or an Ainge, or so on, has such a different background, that the standard model and standard assumptions fit this person slowly? It hasn't been established that you can use MLE's with two-sport players. (It hasn't been established that you can't, but then statistics is, after all, an art). I personally think otherwise lucid individuals continually make completely nonsensical statements about Bo and Deion and Lofton. ""Look at those good-but-not-great minor league numbers,"" they say. Well, what happens if those numbers simply don't mean what they usually mean? It might mean that Ken Lofton suddenly has a better year in Houston than Tuscon. It might mean that Deion suddenly has a better half-year in Atlanta than Greenville. Then again, it might not. Ken and Deion might go right back in the tank this year, live up to those poor MLE's. But you guys DON'T KNOW. What's worse, you don't know that you don't. And you don't know that there are other players you won't know about -- injuries and lifting and wheaties again. You seem to think that the model is perfect and eternal. It's not. It's got some error. Oh well. Bill Guilford still thinks ""hairy butt is truly ugly"" might be right ",9 "Re: Motif vs. [Athena, etc.] In article , bambi@kirk.bu.oz.au (David J. Hughes) writes: > > >I am also concerned by this prevalence of Motif, particularly from the > >point of view of writing and obtaining free software. As the Linux and > >386BSD communities grow, however, I think that Motif will lose some of > >its grip, at least in the non-commercial marketplace. > > Ports of Motif to both 386BSD and Linux are available for a fee of about > $100. This is cost recovery for the person who bought the rights to > redistribute. The activity in both the BSD and Linux news groups > pertaining to Motif has been high. > > >I just wonder if this will also cause a divergence between commercial > >and non-commercial software (ie. you will only get free software using > >Athena or OpenLook widget sets, and only get commercial software using > >the Motif widget sets). > > I can't see why. If just about every workstation will come with Motif > by default and you can buy it for under $100 for the ""free"" UNIX > platforms, I can't see this causing major problems. > I think you will find that the active Linux and 386BSD communities are populated by enthusiasts who would object to paying *any* money for software. Otherwise, they would probably have gone for a commercial Unix. An important factor in the Linux community is that source code is always available (this is probably similar in the 386BSD community, however, I'm not really involved there). Many people using Linux like to stay at the cutting (bleeding) edge: ie. when kernel patches, C library or compiler patches come out, people like to rebuild their entire systems. The prime requirement for all Linux software is that it is available under a GNU style public license. Hence, Linux software uses either the Athena widgets or XView. Individuals may write software requiring Motif, but I doubt it is widely adopted. Regards, Richard Gooch.... ",5 "Re: GGRRRrrr!! Cages double-parking motorc In article 1@cs.cmu.edu, jfriedl+@RI.CMU.EDU (Jeffrey Friedl) writes: >egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes: >|> >|> An apartment complex where I used to live tried this, only they put the >|> thing over the driver's window, ""so they couldn't miss it."" > >I can see the liability of putting stickers on the car while it was moving, >or something, but it's the BDI that chooses to start and then drive the car >in a known unsafe condition that would (seem to be) liable. An effort was made to remove the sticker. It came to pieces, leaving most of it firmly attached to the window. It was dark, and around 10:00 pm. The sticker (before being mangled in an ineffective attempt to be torn off) warned the car would be towed if not removed. A ""reasonable person"" would arguably have driven the car. Had an accident occured, I don't think my friend's attorney would have much trouble fixing blame on the apartment mangement. As a practical matter, even without a conviction, the cost and inconvenience of defending against the suit would be considerable. As a moral matter, it was a pretty fucking stupid thing to do for so paltry a violation as parking without an authorization sticker (BTW, it wasn't ""somebody's"" spot, it was resident-only, but unassigned, parking). --- Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker, Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM |and I showed him a picture of you. I said, DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |""Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"" (The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do... ",8 "Re: was: Go Hezbollah! hernlem@chess.ncsu.edu (Brad Hernlem) writes: >Tell me Tim, what are these guerillas doing wrong? Assuming that they are using >civilians for cover, are they not killing SOLDIERS in THEIR country? So, it's okay to use civilians for cover if you're attacking soldiers in your country. (Of course, many of those attacking claim that they aren't Lebanese, so it's not their country.) Got it. I think. Hmm. This is confusing. Could you perhaps repeat your rules explaining exactly when it is permissible to use civilians as shields? Also please explain under what conditions it is permissible for soldiers to defend themselves. Also please explain the particular rules that make it okay for terrorists to launch missiles from Lebanon against Israeli civilians, but not okay for the Israelis to try to defend themselves against those missiles. -- Alan H. Stein astein@israel.nysernet.org ",17 "Re: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option In article <34666@oasys.dt.navy.mil> glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie) writes: >coverage. This also applies to my existing car insurance policy. Does >anyone understand what the ""Limited Tort Option"" means. Will it lower >my rates if I opt to have it, or will it be more expensive if I opt >to have it? What does it do for me (in layman's terms please)? Is >it a good deal or should I ignore it? I'm not the type to sue anyone >at a drop of the hat nor am I the type to report every little ding to Limited Tort Option will lower your rates. If you choose it, you can't sue others for pain & suffering, but you still can sue for economic loss. So you can sue for your wrecked car and for medical bills, but you can't sue for $1000000 for pain and suffering. At least, that's how I understand it. Michal ",7 "Two internal disks I'd like to put internal disks in a Mac II. I understand that ones needs a special ""jumper"" cable to acheive this. Does anyone know a source for these? Thanks, Mike Pazzani (pazzani@ics.uci.edu) ",4 "Re: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days If re-boosting the HST by carrying it with a shuttle would not damage it, then why couldn't HST be brought back to earth and the repair job done here? Is it because two shuttle flights would be required, adding to the alredy horrendous expense? Gruss, Dr Bruce Scott The deadliest bullshit is Max-Planck-Institut fuer Plasmaphysik odorless and transparent bds at spl6n1.aug.ipp-garching.mpg.de -- W Gibson -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80 ",14 "Re: ATM In article <1r1jq4$af5@network.ucsd.edu> adean@weber.ucsd.edu (Anthony V. Dean) writes: > >I've been reading, with much confusion, about whether or not to use >ATManager. Lately, all the packages I've been buying have all >included ATManager as a ""bonus"" Adobe has been doing this for years. >I do some desktop publishing using PageMaker and Coreldraw. >Coreldraw comes with a nifty laser disk that contains over 200 diff >types. Add that to the TTfonts that come with win31 and you have a >decent amount of fonts. I print my creations out on an HP4 >Postcript, at 600 dpi resolution with the ""Resolution Enhancement >Technology"" and .. well ... I get some darn good copies. >So good that there isn't any diff whether or not ATManager is turned >on or not. Is it worth it to run ATM at all? Especially with these >better printer technologies ... and TT? There are some fonts that are only available as PS fonts. If you have a PS font that you want to use, use ATM. Otherwise, it is a waste of system resources. Personally, I use both. -- Mike Lipsie (work) mlipsie@ca.merl.com Mitsubishi Electronic Research Laboratory (home) mikel@dosbears.UUCP ",2 "Re: Original IBM PC specs In article <1993Apr9.101944.3200@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> hoffmamc@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes: >A hard drive with XT-type controller can be added, but I recommend not trying a >full -height 5 1/4"" hard drive, as I have run into trouble with the 63.5w >supply not having the oomph to spool up those big heavy platters. > one way to get the system going with one floppy drive and one hard disk on a 63 watt power supply is to first disconnect the power from the floppy drive than turn on the pc, you will notice the hard drive having a real difficult time getting up to speed, but it manages. when booting is finished, plug in your floppy drive, now it will work. (ok I know this is not very user friendly, maybe you are better off buying a 486-66 with 300 watt power supply or something like that) willem ",3 "Re: Islam & Dress Code for women In article <1993Apr6.030734.28563@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, guncer@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Selim Guncer ) writes: > > I wouldn't consider this quote as being exemplary of the Islamic > (TM) viewpoint though. For all we know, the prophet's cousin and > the Fourth Khalif Hazret-i Ali may have said this after a > frustrating night with a woman. That's very interesting. I wonder, are women's reactions recorded after a frustrating night with a man? Is that considered to be important? jon. ",0 "Re: Countersteering sans Hands In article <1993Apr22.005308.11779@cs.cornell.edu> karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr) writes: |In article dagibbs@quantum.qnx.com (David Gibbs) writes: |> |>Yes, even when steering no hands you do something quite similar |>to countersteering. Basically to turn left, you to a quick wiggle |>of the bike to the right first, causing a counteracting lean to |>occur to the left. | |This sounds suspiciously like black magic to me. If by ""quick wiggle |to the right"" you mean that the handlebars turn toward the right |before turning to the left, what is the input to the steering |mechanism that makes this happen in the absence of the old |""shove-shove""? Well, as many a bored bike tourer can tell you, the way to steer sans hans is to push your body off to the side you want to lean. Say you want to turn left. You push your body off to the left. To do this, you have to push against something, and the only thing to push against is the ground (through the bike). Well, the apple guy (Wozniak? or was that Churchill?) says that the ground will push you right back. So, you pushed yourself off to the left by pushing on the ground to the right, and the ground pushed back toward the left. Well, that push is on both wheels. The rear wheel doesn't care (unless you have serious bearing problems) (except of course on the Spagthorpe Dragonfly, which had the revolutionary countersteering-contra-shaft-drive rear end), but the front wheel has trail. If the ground pushes the front wheel toward the left at the contact patch, the trail will cause the wheel to turn to the right. Hey, there we are. No-hands counter- steering. Dave Svoboda (svoboda@void.rtsg.mot.com) | ""I'm getting tired of 90 Concours 1000 (Mmmmmmmmmm!) | beating you up, Dave. 84 RZ 350 (Ring Ding) (Woops!) | You never learn."" AMA 583905 DoD #0330 COG 939 (Chicago) | -- Beth ""Bruiser"" Dixon ",8 "Re: Backcountry Confidence In article rbw3q@rayleigh.mech.Virginia.EDU (Brad Whitehurst) writes: > The rest of us fall in the middle. There IS too much violent >crime in the U.S., but turning the whole country into an old-time >Dodge City (ref. to American Old West) is not the way. That's an interesting statement. There's quite a difference between Hollywood's ""Old West"" and the real one. Yes, there were drunks, saloons, mining camps, and thugs. However, as McGrath showed, the thugs preyed almost exclusively on one another. McGrath claims that this was due to the fact that no one much cared if someone who insisted on getting into a fight got his way, even if he lost, while they really did care when thugs preyed on others. >citizens should be able to own weapons, but we see no sense in some >types. We haven't figured out that those distinctions don't actually work. Machine guns have been strictly regulated since 1934. Said regulation is both perfect (legally owned machine guns aren't ever used criminally) and a complete waste of time (the criminal use of machine guns hasn't change at all). The result - we're now arguing about guns that LOOK like machine guns, but are no different than other guns. -andy -- ",16 "Help on RenderMan language wanted! Hello everybody ! If you are using PIXAR'S RenderMan 3D scene description language for creating 3D worlds, please, help me. I'm using RenderMan library on my NeXT but there is no documentation about NeXTSTEP version of RenderMan available. I can create very complicated scenes and render them using surface shaders, but I can not bring them to life by applying shadows and reflections. As far as I understand I have to define environmental and shadows maps to produce reflections and shadows, but I do not know how to use them. Any advises or simple RIB or C examples will be appreciated. Thanks in advance... --- Alex Kolesov Moscow, Russia. Talus Imaging & Communications Corporation e-mail: (NeXT mail accepted) . ",1 "Re: Back Breaker, Near Hit!! In article <1r941o$3tu@menudo.uh.edu> inde7wv@Rosie.UH.EDU writes: >bike. Luckily the guy stops a foot behind my rear wheel. > >I understand why you theoretically stop so far behind a car but can you >really in actuality avoid such an incident? Suggestions? > Anybody who drove into somebody like that in this country would hopefully lose their licence. However, the avoidance is simple. Don't stop behind the cage. stop beside it, or better still, in front of it, so that it acts as a buffer. Tony +---------------+------------------------------+-------------------------+ |Tony Kidson | ** PGP 2.2 Key by request ** |Voice +44 81 466 5127 | |Morgan Towers, | The Cat has had to move now |E-Mail(in order) | |Morgan Road, | as I've had to take the top |tony@morgan.demon.co.uk | |Bromley, | off of the machine. |tny@cix.compulink.co.uk | |England BR1 3QE|Honda ST1100 -=<*>=- DoD# 0801|100024.301@compuserve.com| +---------------+------------------------------+-------------------------+ ",8 "Compiled version of VOGL-library for PC? Has anybody compiled VOGL-graphics library for IBM-PC? I need to call it from MS-Fortran but don't have MS-C to compile the sources. Thanks for any help... martti toivakka mtoivakk@abo.fi ",1 "Re: Abyss--breathing fluids loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) writes: >Besides the mechanical problems of moving so dense a medium in oan out >of the lungs (diaphragm fatigue, etc.), is there likely to be a problem >with the mixture? I mean, since the lungs never expel all the air in >them, the inhaled air has to mix pretty quickly with the residual air in >the lungs to provide a useful partial pressure of oxygen, right? Would >this mixing be substantially faster/slower at the pressures we're >talking about? There was an interesting article in Scientific American some time ago about breathing liquid. (It was a few months before _The Abyss_ came out.) As far as I can remember, they mentioned three things that were difficult to do at once with a substitute breathing fluid: - low viscosity --- if it's too difficult to force the fluid in & out of the lungs, you can't extract enough oxygen to power your own breathing effort (let alone anything else) - diffusion rate --- obviously, not all the air in your lungs is expelled when you breathe out; and the part that isn't expelled is the part that's nearest the walls of the alveoli. (alveolus?) So the trip from the blood vessels to the new air has to be done by diffusion of the gas through the fluid. Apparently oxygen tends to diffuse more readily than CO2, so even if you can get enough oxygen in, you might not be able to get enough CO2 out. - oxygen/CO2 capacity --- you have to be able to dissolve enough gas per unit volume. Oh, and of course, your new breathing fluid must not irritate the lungs or interfere with their healing or anything like that... -- Wim Lewis, wiml@u.washington.edu ",14 "Re: Gun Talk -- Legislative Update for States lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani) writes: >IOWA: All firearm related bills are dead. Senate File 303 >dealing with off-duty police officers carrying concealed remains >viable. The *POWER* of the word processor and a stamp at work. The fact that around here the state rep generally lives no more than nine miles from any constituent doesn't hurt, either. < Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu > < ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. > < USENET: Post to exotic, distant machines. Meet exciting, > < unusual people. And flame them. > ",16 "big THANKS I'd like to thank everyone and anyone who sent me information to help me with my project. _______ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ | | | | | | / \ | \ | | \ \ / / --| |- | | | | / /\ \ | |\ \ | | \ \/ / | | | -- | / -- \ | | \ \ | | \ / | | | __ | / ----- \ | | \ \| | / /\ \ |_| |__| |__| /__/ \__\ |_| \____| /__/ \_\ I'll send my report to all who requested a copy! KEITH MALINOWSKI STK1203@VAX003.Stockton.EDU Stockton State College Pomona, NJ 08240 ",14 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1993Apr19.204855.10818@rtsg.mot.com> lundby@rtsg.mot.com (Walter F. Lundby) writes: >As nobody in the food industry has even bothered to address my previous >question ""WHY DO YOU NEED TO PUT MSG IN ALMOST EVERY FOOD?"" I must assume >that my wife's answer is closer to the truth than I hoped it was. I don't mean to be disrespectful to your concerns, but it seems to me that you're getting all wound up in a non-issue. As many knowledgeable people have pointed out, msg is a naturally occurring substance in a lot, if not most, foods. When food manufacturers add it to a preparation, they do so because it's a known flavor enhancer. Your wife's theory, that MSG is added to food to stimulate appetite, may well be true. But I don't believe it's ALWAYS the reason it's added. People are (largely, for the most part) in charge of their own appetites. >children's and my parent's) seem to fixate on a particular brand of pet >food. The cat will eat any product within one brand and not any other >brand. I have wondered if this is not a case of preference, but, some >sort of chemical training or addiction. My questions, for the net, are: >Does the FDA regulate the contents of pet food? Is it allowed for pet >food to contain addictive or conditioning substances? Is MSG put in >pet food? > You don't know much about cats, do you? Cats will Take Advantage of You. Resign yourself: you will never understand a cat. Their tastes are whimsical. I also suspect, though it's been a while since I've checked ingredients on commercial cat food, that there are much more stringent requirements on pet food additives than human. See, the FDA has this stupid idea that human beings have the intelligence to look out after their own interests. Barbara, wondering how her cat would take care of *her* ",13 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qj9gq$mg7@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: (Deletion) >Plus questions for you: why do subjectivists/relativists/nihilists get so >het up about the idea that relativism is *better* than objectivism? Straw man, you are trying to replace pragmatics by morals. And what about a Subjectivis saying Subjectivismis better for me? >Is good logic *better* than bad? Is good science better than bad? Ought >I to prefer simple theories with accurate predictions to complex and useless >theories? Is almost anything preferable to genocide? Is there a sense in >which such value judgements are objective, or not? > Make those predictions and don't waste our time with circular definitions and assertions without evidence. In this example, when genocide is so commonly abhorred, why does it happen so often in the context of religion? Does it allow to conclude that there is something about religion that catalyses genocide? Or, in case it has nothing got to do with religion, that the premise is wrong, genocide is not abhorred? Benedikt ",0 "Re: To be, or Not to be [ a Disaster ] In article phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes: >In article <612@vega.iii.com> rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russ) writes: > >In article phil@netcom.com (Phil > >Ronzone) writes: > > > >>Not at all. You are apparently just another member of the > >>Religious Left. > >> > >Not at all. I am not a member of the Religious Left, Right, > >or even Center. In fact I don't consider myself very > >religious at all [ this will probably result in flames now :) > >]. In fact Phil, you should leave religion out of it. It just > >clouds the issue. > >The religous left worships trees, rivers, the planet, and hates people. And the religious right worships engines, smokestacks, landfills, and hates people. What does this name-calling have to do with anything you are claiming about the truth of environmental disaster? Nothing that I have read in this thread, nor heard from anyone I have talked to, would suggest to me that people fit the definition you give of the religious left. Come off it, Phil. A prime motivation for protecting our environment is so that we, people, can continue to live in it healthily. We just disagree on what is necessary to maintaining a healthy environment FOR PEOPLE. > >>Show me all these environmental ""disasters"". Most of them > >>aren't. And the natural disasters we have had individually > >>far outweigh the man-made ones. [Russ's response deleted to save space] >I guess you missed the newspaper articles this week about Exxon presenting >evidnce (through the ASTM) on the issue of the Valdez incident. Seems >that Valdez is mostly recovered, despite the Religious Left's cries of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >""hundreds of years"". What!? They have already repaired that old hulk!!!? WOW!!! ;-) I suppose you *mean* the Alaskan shores that were devastated by the Valdez accident? I haven't seen the articles. What do they say exactly? Has [mostly] all the ocean and shore life returned? The sands are [mostly] as clean as they were before? The microbial samples are [mostly] back to a normal balance? The fish and fowl populations have [mostly] returned? What? >Then again, the Relgious Left claimed it would take 20 yearsb to put out >the Kuwait oil fires... [...] > You should face the facts. Love Canal >was not, and is not, an environmental disaster, nor even a problem. > >Nor is Times Beach and TMI and acid rain killing trees and .... Not a problem? Would you move to Three Mile Island? I would imagine there is some cheap property available! The naturally occurring catastrophic events [disasters] that destroy property (ie: hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes) do not usually leave toxic wastes that prevent people from re-building their lives there. The man-made disasters (oil spills, toxic dumping, radioactive waste dispersions) cause death and make an area unliveable far beyond the initial event. >-- >There are actually people that STILL believe Love Canal was some kind of >environmental disaster. Weird, eh? > >These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em! (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...) -- ---)---------- ----------(--- Douglas Young (dyoung@ecst.csuchico.edu) I don't know why, but I seem to expect a serious discussion on the net. ---)---------- ----------(--- ",18 "Alternative Fuel Vehicles Here is a press release from the U.S. Department of Energy. Energy Secretary Hails President's Plan For Alternative Fuel Vehicles To: National Desk, Environment and Energy Reporters Contact: Larry Hart of the U.S. Department of Energy, 202-586-5806 WASHINGTON, April 21 -- Secretary of Energy Hazel R. O'Leary today said President Clinton's Executive Order on Alternative Fuels will make the federal government a ""driving force behind efforts to increase the availability of both alternative fuel vehicles and fuel supplies."" President Clinton signed the order today, which calls for federal purchases of alternative fuel vehicles in numbers over the next three years at least 50 percent higher than those called for in the Energy Policy Act of 1992. President Clinton also announced that Texas Land Commissioner Gary Mauro will head up the Federal Fleet Conversion Task Force to advise O'Leary on implementation of the Executive Order. ""I am delighted that I will be working with Gary Mauro to make this happen,"" O'Leary said. ""As Land Commissioner, Gary Mauro has helped make Texas a national leader in converting the state fleet to alternative fuels, and has been a tireless proponent of natural gas vehicles in speeches across the country."" The task force is to issue a report within 90 days recommending a plan and schedule of implementation. ""The Department of Energy and all of us in government must lead by example if the option of alternative fuels is going to become a practical, affordable choice for fleet owners across the country,"" O'Leary said. ""Increased use of domestically-produced alternative fuels means reducing pollution while creating jobs. We believe that energy efficiency, protecting the environment, and a healthy economy are complimentary goals."" O'Leary said that plans call for the Department of Energy to coordinate the agencies' five-year purchase plans, help with funding for extra purchase or conversion costs, and work with GSA to encourage development of the fuel infrastructure needed to make fleet conversions practical. Under the order, the Department of Energy will also be working with states, local governments and industry to coordinate vehicle purchases and encourage manufacturers and fuel suppliers to make alternative fuel vehicles and alternative fuels more widely available. -30- -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario 416-629-7000/629-7044 ",7 "Re: islamic authority over women In article <1993Apr6.124112.12959@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes: >For the guy who said he's just arrived, and asked whether Bobby's for real, >you betcha. Welcome to alt.atheism, and rest assured that it gets worse. >I have a few pearls of wisdom from Bobby which I reproduce below. Is anyone >(Keith?) keeping a big file of such stuff? Sorry, I was, but I somehow have misplaced my diskette from the last couple of months or so. However, thanks to the efforts of Bobby, it is being replenished rather quickly! Here is a recent favorite: -- ""Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. They do what god tells them to do. "" S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) -- ""Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. They do what god tells them to do. "" S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) ",0 "Re: Davidians and compassion sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.143400.569@ra.royalroads.ca>, mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca >(Malcolm Lee) wrote: >> Do you judge all Christians by the acts of those who would call >> themselves Christian and yet are not? The BD's contradicted scripture >> in their actions. They were NOT Christian. Simple as that. Perhaps >> you have read too much into what the media has portrayed. Ask any >> true-believing Christian and you will find that they will deny any >> association with the BD's. Even the 7th Day Adventists have denied any >> further ties with this cult, which was what they were. >Well, if they were Satanists, or followers of an obscure religion, >then I would be sure that Christians would in unison condemn and >make this to a show case. You might be sure, but you would also be wrong. >And does not this show the dangers with religion -- in order >word a mind virus that will make mothers capable of letting >their small children burn to ashes while they scream? I suspect the answer to this question is the same as the answer to, ""Do not the actions of the likes of Stalin show the dangers of atheism?"" ",19 "Re: Hercules VLB? In article <1993Apr22.183309.25247@adobe.com> sherwood@adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood) writes: >That is for my wife. I just purchased a Viewsonic 17 for myself, and am >looking for a graphics card to drive it. I want > 70Hz refresh, >and would really like it to handle my CD-Roms. I tried the Orchid P9000, >which did neither of those things (though Robert at Wietek did say that the >>70Hz was possible if I modifed the driver data base). So my thoughts go back >to Hercules. They were supposed to be coming out with a VLB version of the >Graphite around the end of March. I have heard precisely ZERO about it since >then. Does anyone know if the card was actually released, and what capabilities >(and price) it has? Hmm your CD-Rom program must be using some oddball VGA modes. I think they are trying to get it out by the end of this month, when it is released though it'll be in limited quantities, I think they have quite a back order right now (the 2 megs version will come out a bit later). Since you have a Viewsonic 17 (I think it has a 78khz horizontal frequency right?), you're gonna love the 2 megs version. It can do 1280x1024x256 at 75Hz, 1152x900x256 at 80Hz, 1024x768x256 at 90Hz(!), 1024x768x65536 at 75Hz. It can also do 640x480x16 mil. and 800x600x16 bit at 90Hz, too bad I don't have such a high bandwidth monitor like yours ;) ;) (most of those modes need a 78khz monitor, otherwise you'll have to use a lower refresh rate) If you want more info. about the coming Graphite VL, you should go to the IBM hardware section on Compuserve (IBMHW), in the video sig. There're several Hercules reps there that are very helpful. +----------------------------------------------------------------+ Stephen Lau, Elec. Engineering, Univ. of Hawaii don't have my own account until grad. school starts (autumn 93) + Death to FM synthesis! Go Gus! + ",3 "Re: Rumours about 3DO ??? In article <2BD07605.18974@news.service.uci.edu> rbarris@orion.oac.uci.edu (Robert C. Barris) writes: >I'm not sure how a Centris/20MHz 040 stacks up against the 25 MHz ARM in >the 3DO box. Obviously the ARM is faster, but how much? Why would it have to be much faster (it probably is) ? Assuming an ARM is about as efficient as a MIPS R3000 for integer calculations, doing a Compact-Video-like digital video codec is an easy task. For Software Motion Pictures (which is a lot like Compact Video, though it predates it), we get 48 frames/sec. at 320x240 on a DECstation 5000/200. That machine has a 25 Mhz MIPS R3000. Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz Distributed Multimedia Group, CEC Karlsruhe EERP Portfolio Manager Software Motion Pictures & BERKOM II Project Multimedia Base Technology Digital Equipment Corporation neidecker@nestvx.enet.dec.com ",1 "Re: FJ1100/1200 Owners: Tankbag Suggestions Wanted bgardner@pebbles.es.com (Blaine Gardner) writes: >In article <1993Apr20.195116.10738@ncsu.edu> martenm@chess.ncsu.edu (Mar Marten) writes: >> >>I am looking for a new tank bag now, and I wondered if you, as follow >>FJ1100/1200 owners, could make some suggestions as to what has, and has >>not worked for you. If there is already a file on this I apologize for >>asking and will gladly accept any flames that are blown my way! >With the FJ's large, flat gas tank, I'd imagine that almost anything >would work. Personally, I'm quite happy with my Eclipse standard tank >bag. >-- I think the only thing to watch for is the number of attachment straps. Most come with 3 and some with 4, I have a Bagman 4 strap tankbag and because the rear of the tank is so narrow the fit is not optimal. Mark, Castle Rock, CO ",8 "Re: ugliest swing In article <34244@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat) says: > >What I think is hotdogish about his AB's is the way he leans out over >the plate to watch outside pitches etc. This not done to get a better >look at the pitch, but to make it seem,""this ball is so far out I need >to lean just to get near it so you better call it a ball"". This is my >""unbiased"" opinion of what I see. Your mileage will vary....... >Rickey is agreat player to watch if you forget who he is at the time. a lot of batters lean in when pitches come. rickey's crouch tends to exaggerate that, i think. ""a great player to watch if you forget who he is"" - ""unbiased""... hmmm... bob vesterman. ",9 "Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time In <1993Apr15.040118.29272@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes: >In article callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes: >>In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes: >>> >>>How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the >>>trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars? >> >>Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit, >>named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I >>personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit >>(and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful >>cars ever built, IMHO. I'd go for a '39 Lincoln Continental if I could find one. Sad part is that Edsel Ford designed it, and look at the abortion they named after him. Ain't no justice. >Okay, I'll admit it looks nice on the T-Bird (as a previous owner >of 1967 and 1968 Thunderbirds, I'm biased anyway). ",7 "Re: John Franco Jason Lee asks: >What's with John Franco? The Mets are hardly using him. I heard he was >completely recovered, but now I'm not so sure. You must have heard wrong. His arm is still sore. He hasn't gone on the DL, but he may. Managmenet is treating him as a day-to-day situation. His doctors thought that he was ready, and they had him throw in Colorado, but his arm wasn't up to the strain. He is throwing every day, but he's just not quite ready to pitch full strength yet. (This is based on an interview that he gave on WFAN NY radio on Thursday, 4/23) -- Jon Lyons jon.k.lyons@att.com AT&T Bell Laboratories att!jon.k.lyons ",9 "Re: X-server multi screen In article <1qlop6$sgp@sun3.eeam.elin.co.at>, rainer@sun3.eeam.elin.co.at (Rainer Hochreiter) writes: > I've seen a lot of different terms, which seem to mean the same > thing. Who can give an exact definition what these terms mean: > -) multi-screen > -) multi-headed > -) multi-display > -) X-Server zaphod mode As applied to servers, the first three are fuzzy terms. ""multi-headed"" tends to be used for any system with multiple monitors, sometimes even multiple screens even if they're multiplexed onto the same monitor (eg, a Sun with a cg4 display). ""multi-screen"" and ""multi-display"" would, if taken strictly, mean different things, but since the strict meaning of ""multi-display"" would refer to a system with multiple keyboards and pointers, when it's used it probably refers to the same thing ""multi-screen"" would: a system that provides multiple Screens. ""zaphod"" is a term applied to the way the MIT server switches the pointer from one screen to another by sliding it off the side of the screen. > Is there a limit how many screens/displays a single server can handle > (in an articel a read something about an upper limit of 12) ? There is a protocol limitation that restricts a given Display to at most 255 Screens. I know of no server that handles multiple Displays on a single invocation, unless possibly my kludges to the R4 server can be looked upon as such; on a TCP-based system there is necessarily a limit of 65535 Displays per machine, but this is not a limitation inherent to X. What you read was most likely talking about a limit in some particular implementation (probably the MIT one). If it claimed there was a limit of 12 inherent to X, the author of the article had no business writing about X. der Mouse mouse@mcrcim.mcgill.edu ",5 "Re: 14"" monitors On a related note, will the 1304 work on a Centris 650 with internal video and give the multiple resolutions? This I'm VERY curious about... Thanks! -- |/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\ |/-\|/-\|/-\ Kevin Tieskoetter |/-\|/-\ Technical Support |/-\|/-\|/-\ |/-\|/-\|/-\ Drake Looniversity |/-\|/-\ MicroFrontier, Inc |/-\|/-\|/-\ |/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\ ",4 "Re: document of .RTF In article <1993Mar30.113436.7339@worak.kaist.ac.kr>, tjyu@eve.kaist.ac.kr (Yu TaiJung) writes: > Does anybody have document of .RTF file or know where I can get it? > > Thanks in advance. :) I got one from Microsoft tech support. -- Sterling G. Bjorndahl, bjorndahl@Augustana.AB.CA or bjorndahl@camrose.uucp Augustana University College, Camrose, Alberta, Canada (403) 679-1100 ",2 "Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes: > Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter >of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on >NHL teams have escalated to the following stats: >Canadians: 400 >Americans: 100 >Europeans: 100 > Please note that these numbers are rounded off, and taken from the top >25 players on each of the 24 teams. My source is the Vancouver Sun. > Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick >of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the >Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like ""Bure"" ""Konstantinov"" and >""Borshevshky"". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec, >and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other >teams is getting worse as well. Is the answer as simple as that you dislike russians??? > I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about ""Pavel Bure, the >Russian Rocket"" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see >the Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the >plexiglass so hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way, >I'm not a Canucks fan to begin with ;-). >Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that >I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and >some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR >NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even >better hockey players. It's all hype. This ""European mystique"" is sickening, >but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue >to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league. > With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly >only getting worse. And where would canadian hockey be today without the europeans?? Dont say that the european influence on the league has been all bad for the game. I mean, look at the way you play these days. Less fights and more hockey. Imho, canadian hockey has had a positive curve of development since the 70's when the game was more brute than beauty...... > I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures >and Selannes of the world play on their own continent. Oh, look!! You don't like Finns either.... > I just don't want them on mine. Too bad almost all of you northamericans originates from europe..... Hmmm... And what kind of a name is Rauser. Doesn't sound very ""canadian"" to me. ;-) PS. When analyzing teams like Italy, France and Great Britain you find that a lot of their players are ""Canadians"" with double citizenship... DS > > >-- >Richard J. Rauser ""You have no idea what you're doing."" >rauser@sfu.ca ""Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional >WNI outlaws - we do this for a living."" >----------------- >""Remember, no matter where you go, there you are."" -Dr.Banzai _________________ __________ / _ , /l / _/__()_/))_(/_/)_ _/ L/_()_/)_/)_ / / ******************************************************************** * Tomas Nopp Tel : +46 8 727 33 24 * * Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs Fax : +46 8 647 80 59 * * Box 1505 Email : Tomas.Nopp@eua.ericsson.se * * S-125 25 ALVSJO <------ Snailmail * ******************************************************************** ",10 "Re: Changing sprocket ratios (79 Honda CB750) karish@gondwana.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes: >That's a twin-cam, right? Yep...I think it's the only CB750 with a 630 chain. After 14 years, it's finally stretching into the ""replace"" zone. >Honda 750s don't have the widest of power bands. I know .... I know. -- Clayton T. Brooks _,,-^`--. From the heart cbrooks@ms.uky.edu 722 POT U o'Ky .__,-' * \ of the blue cbrooks@ukma.bitnet Lex. KY 40506 _/ ,/ grass and {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!cbrooks 606-257-6807 (__,-----------'' bourbon country AMA NMA MAA AMS ACBL DoD ",8 "Re: Question: Jesus alone, Oneness In article , Bjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no (A 369) writes: |> Can anybody tell me the basic reasons for holding a belief that there |> is only Jesus? And vice versa: The foundations for the Trinity? |> |> Bjorn I'd love to know how ""Jesus only"" proponents would answer questions like: -Who is this ""Father"" Jesus keeps referring to? Why does He call Himself ""the Son""? -Why does He pray to the Father, and not to himself? -Why does He emphasize that he does his Father's will, and not his own? If He was doing his own will, what kind of example is that? Should we follow it? -When He says he has to return to the Father, who is He going to? -When He says he does this in order that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit might come, who might that be? -If He claims that the coming of the Holy Spirit is such a blessing that it's worth His leaving us and returning to the Father, what can that mean if there is no Holy Spirit? -Why doesn't the best known Christian prayer begin ""Our Saviour, who art in heaven,"" rather than ""Our Father?"" Do they have answers to these questions that are even plausible? (Further entertaining queries are left as an exercise to the reader.) -drt -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ |David R. Tucker KG2S drt@athena.mit.edu| ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [There may be some misunderstanding over terms here. I believe ""Jesus only"" originally was in the context of baptism. These are folks who believe that baptism should be done with a formula mentioning only Jesus, rather than Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This may have doctrinal implications, but as far as I know it does not mean that these folks deny the existence or divinity of the Father. I'm not the right one to describe this theology, and in fact I think there may be several, including what would classically be called monophysite or Arian (two rather different views), as well as some who have beliefs that are probably consistent with Trinitarian standards, but who won't use Trinitarian language because they misunderstand it or simply because it is not Biblical. --clh] ",15 "LOOKING for AD PC-Board This is for a friend of mine. Please send answers directly to him (E-Mail adress see below )! HIGHSPEED ANALOG-DIGITAL PC-BOARD Hello LAdies and Gentleman ! I am looking for a highspeed A/D PC-Board with a sampling rate above 250 MHz an a resolution of 8-bit. The sampling rate can be arranged by an interleave mode where the time equivalent sampling yields 2, 4 or 8 times higher sampling rate than the A/D-Converter uses in non interleave mode. The board must content an A/D-Converter similar to Analog Devices AD 9028 or AD 9038 or if available a faster on. If you a PC-Board (16-bit slot, ISA) with this specification or better, please send me an EMail hansch@cdc2.ikph.uni-hannover.dbp.de or a Telefax to: ++49 / 511 / 7629353 Thanks in advance for your help ! Sincerely Matthias Hansch IKPH, University of Hannover, Germany --- Andreas Heinbokel heinboke@tnt.uni-hannover.de *** ... all wisdom is print on t-shirts *** ",12 "Two-sport star trivia! Here's a few two-sport star trivia questions. I'll admit they're not too difficult, but a bit challenging nevertheless. Mail me your answers please; or post them. 1. Which pitcher played for the Harlem Globetrotters? 2. Which major leaguer briefly tried professional golf in 1978? 3. Which does Dieon Sanders have more of (professionally): career touchdowns or triples? 4. Has there been any player of both pro hockey and baseball? If so, name him and the years he played each. If you have any other two-sport star tidbits, feel free to include them. Mike ",9 "Re: Promise Techhnology Caching IDE Controller In article livigni@bldrdoc.gov (David livigni 303-497-5898) writes: > >Looking for help in just the right place... > >Does anyone have experience with the Promise Technology Caching >IDE Controller DC99M? I just ordered one, $110 with 512k installed, >and have a few questions: > >1. Is it easy to use? Does it need any kind of TSR's, or is >it completely transparent to the system board, so that I won't >have to change the bios configuration? > Yes, it's easy to use. It's just like an ordinary controller. You don't have to change the bios config. >2. Is it transparent to the IDE drive? Will it work with any drive >or does it have to be configured explicity for the type of drive >installed? > It's transparent. It works with any drive. If you change the drive you only need to change the bios config. as usual. >3. Will it work with a dual-drive system (master and slave)? Yes, no problem. > >4. With it, will I need smartdrive or DOS buffers? That depends. You will get a little better performance if you use smartdrive and buffers in addition. That's because access to the card through the ISA bus is slower than access to system RAM. I don't use smartdrive myself, but I have a few buffers. > >5. Is the Promise Technology controller a good one? > >Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > >David Livigni >-- >| livigni@bldrdoc.gov - Anything stated here is my opinion only! Y @--D | >| Rule of the Great: | >| When people you greatly admire appear to be thinking deep | >| thoughts, they probably are thinking about lunch. | Stig ",3 "UART-CPU-ROM-RAM subsystem This is a followup post to something I've written previously. Several people responded with good information, but I don't think I communicated exactly what I am looking for. I'm working on a custom I/O device that will communicate with a host via RS-232. My custom circuitry will use an 80C186EB or EC CPU and require about 64K of RAM (preferably FLASH RAM). In looking around, I see that lots of people have engineered UART-CPU-ROM-RAM subsystems that are ready to be interfaced to your custom I/O devices. It's been done so much, that it would be best if I can avoid reinventing a system. It just needs to use an 80C186 (or 188) CPU, and be able to load a program from the host then transfer control to that program. Well, there's one other thing the ROM needs to know how to do. It should have routines to send and receive bytes to/from the host, that utilize the hardware control lines (DTR,RTS,DTS,CTS). Everything I've seen is in the $200.00 and up range. That's too much for this application. I need something around $100.00. The CPU has the UART built-in, so you're only looking at a few chips. Does anyone know a company that markets a good board in this range, or some public domain circuitry I can use? Thanks in advance for the info. Rich ",12 "USENET Hockey Draft final point totals Here are the final point totals for players chosen in the USENET Hockey Draft. Note that only 114 players scored more than 55 points (the minimum cost) although 254 different players were chosen. - Andrew Points Team Player 160 PIT Mario_Lemieux 148 BUF Pat_LaFontaine 142 BOS Adam_Oates 137 DET Steve_Yzerman 132 WPG Teemu_Selanne 132 NYI Pierre_Turgeon 127 BUF Alexander_Mogilny 127 TOR Doug_Gilmour 125 LA Luc_Robitaille 123 PHI Mark_Recchi 114 QUE Mats_Sundin 111 PIT Kevin_Stevens 110 VAN Pavel_Bure 109 PIT Rick_Tocchet 107 CHI Jeremy_Roenick 106 STL Craig_Janney 105 QUE Joe_Sakic 102 BOS Joe_Juneau 101 STL Brett_Hull 100 CGY Theoren_Fleury 100 PIT Ron_Francis 99 TOR Dave_Andreychuk 97 MTL Vincent_Damphousse 97 DET Dino_Ciccarelli 97 WPG Phil_Housley 96 BUF Dale_Hawerchuk 94 STL Brendan_Shanahan 94 MTL Kirk_Muller 94 PIT Jaromir_Jagr 93 MIN Mike_Modano 91 NYR Mark_Messier 89 HFD Geoff_Sanderson 88 MTL Brian_Bellows 88 CGY Robert_Reichel 87 LA Jari_Kurri 87 NYI Steve_Thomas 87 DET Sergei_Fedorov 87 DET Paul_Coffey 86 TB Brian_Bradley 86 PHI Rod_Brind'Amour 85 WSH Peter_Bondra 85 PIT Larry_Murphy 85 HFD Andrew_Cassels 85 VAN Cliff_Ronning 82 WSH Mike_Ridley 82 LA Tony_Granato 82 QUE Steve_Duchesne 82 HFD Pat_Verbeek 82 BOS Ray_Bourque 81 CGY Gary_Suter 81 NJ Claude_Lemieux 80 MTL Stephan_Lebeau 79 NJ Alexander_Semak 79 WSH Kevin_Hatcher 79 MIN Russ_Courtnall 79 WSH Dale_Hunter 78 QUE Mike_Ricci 78 SJ Kelly_Kisio 78 STL Jeff_Brown 77 QUE Owen_Nolan 77 VAN Murray_Craven 77 VAN Geoff_Courtnall 76 NYR Tony_Amonte 76 NYI Derek_King 76 MIN Dave_Gagner 75 PHI Eric_Lindros 75 CGY Joe_Nieuwendyk 75 NYI Benoit_Hogue 74 TOR Nikolai_Borschevsky 74 WSH Michal_Pivonka 74 MIN Ulf_Dahlen 73 LA Jimmy_Carson 73 NJ Stephane_Richer 73 CHI Chris_Chelios 73 STL Nelson_Emerson 72 WPG Alexei_Zhamnov 72 BOS Dmitri_Kvartalnov 72 VAN Trevor_Linden 72 WPG Thomas_Steen 71 VAN Petr_Nedved 70 PIT Joe_Mullen 70 CHI Steve_Larmer 69 LA Mike_Donnelly 68 QUE Andrei_Kovalenko 68 NYR Mike_Gartner 67 WSH Dmitri_Khristich 66 WSH Al_Iafrate 66 DET Ray_Sheppard 66 SJ Johan_Garpenlov 65 TOR Glenn_Anderson 65 HFD Zarley_Zalapski 65 LA Wayne_Gretzky 65 NYR Adam_Graves 64 NJ Valeri_Zelepukin 63 OTT Norm_Maciver 63 PHI Kevin_Dineen 62 DET Steve_Chiasson 62 DET Paul_Ysebaert 62 PHI Garry_Galley 61 PIT Shawn_McEachern 60 MTL Mike_Keane 60 WPG Darrin_Shannon 60 NYI Pat_Flatley 60 NJ Bernie_Nicholls 60 QUE Scott_Young 59 LA Rob_Blake 59 PHI Brent_Fedyk 57 CHI Steve_Smith 57 WSH Pat_Elynuik 57 NJ Scott_Stevens 57 CGY Sergei_Makarov 57 WPG Fredrik_Olausson 56 VAN Greg_Adams 56 TB John_Tucker 54 CHI Christian_Ruuttu 54 CHI Brent_Sutter 54 CGY Al_MacInnis 54 NYR Sergei_Nemchinov 53 HFD Terry_Yake 53 NYR Darren_Turcotte 52 NYI Vladimir_Malakhov 52 VAN Dixon_Ward 52 LA Tomas_Sandstrom 51 BOS Stephen_Leach 51 HFD Patrick_Poulin 51 WPG Keith_Tkachuk 50 NYI Jeff_Norton 50 MTL Denis_Savard 50 TOR John_Cullen 50 WSH Sylvain_Cote 49 NYR Ed_Olczyk 49 STL Kevin_Miller 49 BOS Dave_Poulin 49 VAN Anatoli_Semenov 49 PHI Pelle_Eklund 49 WPG Evgeny_Davydov 48 MTL Gilbert_Dionne 48 NJ John_MacLean 48 QUE Martin_Rucinsky 48 LA Alexei_Zhitnik 48 EDM Petr_Klima 48 EDM Doug_Weight 47 EDM Shayne_Corson 46 EDM Craig_Simpson 45 WSH Kelly_Miller 45 EDM Dave_Manson 44 CHI Michel_Goulet 44 MTL Mathieu_Schneider 43 DET Bob_Probert 43 CGY Paul_Ranheim 43 OTT Sylvain_Turgeon 42 MIN Mark_Tinordi 41 OTT Bob_Kudelski 41 DET Niklas_Lidstrom 41 OTT Brad_Shaw 41 EDM Todd_Elik 41 BOS Vladimir_Ruzicka 40 MIN Mike_McPhee 40 NYR Esa_Tikkanen 40 TOR Dave_Ellett 40 NJ Peter_Stastny 39 LA Corey_Millen 39 NJ Bobby_Holik 39 BUF Yuri_Khmylev 39 TB Adam_Creighton 39 TOR Wendel_Clark 38 VAN Sergio_Momesso 38 NYR Alexei_Kovalev 37 TOR Rob_Pearson 37 QUE Valery_Kamensky 37 CHI Dirk_Graham 36 NYR Brian_Leetch 36 EDM Zdeno_Ciger 35 TOR Peter_Zezel 35 BOS Ted_Donato 33 MIN Neal_Broten 33 HFD Mikael_Nylander 33 PHI Josef_Beranek 33 CHI Stephane_Matteau 32 EDM Scott_Mellanby 32 DET Keith_Primeau 32 BUF Wayne_Presley 32 NYI Brian_Mullen 32 PHI Dmitri_Yushkevich 32 MTL Gary_Leeman 31 BUF Richard_Smehlik 31 BOS Steve_Heinze 31 TOR Dmitri_Mironov 30 CHI Brian_Noonan 28 WSH Bob_Carpenter 28 SJ Pat_Falloon 27 STL Igor_Korolev 27 TB Mikael_Andersson 27 NYI Ray_Ferraro 26 BUF Petr_Svoboda 26 OTT Mark_Lamb 26 NYR James_Patrick 25 MTL Benoit_Brunet 24 NYI Scott_LaChance 24 TOR Bill_Berg 23 EDM Martin_Gelinas 23 WPG Sergei_Bautin 23 EDM Kevin_Todd 21 NYI David_Volek 21 NYI Darius_Kasparaitis 21 TB Roman_Hamrlik 21 MIN Brent_Gilchrist 20 NYR Phil_Bourque 20 DET Jim_Hiller 20 PHI Andrei_Lomakin 20 HFD Yvon_Corriveau 19 BUF Donald_Audette 18 BOS Cam_Neely 17 CHI Joe_Murphy 17 SJ Mark_Pederson 16 PIT Martin_Straka 15 NYR Peter_Andersson 13 NJ Janne_Ojanen 13 OTT Tomas_Jelinek 12 MIN Bobby_Smith 11 TB Steve_Kasper 10 SJ Ray_Whitney 9 HFD Robert_Petrovicky 9 BUF Viktor_Gordijuk 8 TOR Joe_Sacco 8 QUE Mikhail_Tatarinov 8 SJ Peter_Ahola 7 CHI Rob_Brown 7 BOS Glen_Murray 6 MIN Brian_Propp 6 HFD Tim_Kerr 5 WSH Reggie_Savage 5 LA Robert_Lang 5 STL Vitali_Prokhorov 5 DET Viacheslav_Kozlov 5 EDM Shaun_Van_Allen 4 BOS Jozef_Stumpel 4 MIN Dan_Quinn 4 PIT Bryan_Fogarty 3 MTL Olav_Petrov 3 TB Stan_Drulia 2 NJ Claude_Vilgrain 2 WSH Jason_Woolley 0 QUE Peter_Forsberg 0 WSH Brian_Sakic 0 WSH Randy_Burridge 0 MTL Patrick_Kjellberg 0 OTT Alexei_Yashin 0 EDM Dean_McAmmond 0 CGY Cory_Stillman 0 TB Brent_Gretzky 0 BUF Jason_Dawe 0 VAN Igor_Larionov 0 CHI Sergei_Krivokrasov -- Andrew Scott | andrew@idacom.hp.com HP IDACOM Telecom Operation | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253 During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old... ",10 "Re: BATF/FBI revenge In article <2077@rwing.UUCP> pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes: >I am sick, dismayed, discouraged. And ASHAMED of our Administration. > >Anybody for impeachment? I have already called senators, legislators and the Governor demanding that the warrants be unsealed, and that all involved in this atrocity (including the President, Attorney General and Governor) be suspended pending an investigation. I seriously doubt, however, that anything will ever be done. Welcome to Amerika! -- REMEMBER WACO! Who will the government decide to murder next? Maybe you? [Opinions are mine; I don't care if you blame the University or the State.] ",16 "Re: Temper tantrums from the 1960's In article <1993Apr15.175829.22411@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@us.oracle.com (Michael Friedman) writes... >In article <1993Apr14.231117.21872@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM writes: >>In article , phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes... >>>Correct. JFK was quite disgusting in that way. The reports of the women that >>>he coerced via power of the office are now in the dozens. Today, we';d >>>call for immediate resignation for that kind of behaviour. > >>I guess coercing women into having sex is MUCH worse than stealing, breaking >>and entering, rigging national elections, starting secret wars that kill >>hundreds of thousands, and using the powers of your office for personal >>gain like Nixon did. NOT! > >Garrett, you are a really pathetic liar. Isn't name calling fun! > >Some of your charges are arguable, but most of them are obvious lies. >I challenge you to present us with any evidence that Nixon stole, >rigged a national election, never mind elections, or used the powers >of his office for personal gain. What do you think happened at Watergate? What do you think they broke into the building for? It wasn't to just look around. Do I have to draw you a picture? > >You can't because there is absolutely no evidence that any of these >events occurred. Whatever... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ""Who said anything about panicking?"" snapped Authur. Garrett Johnson ""This is still just culture shock. You wait till I've Garrett@Ingres.com settled into the situation and found my bearings. THEN I'll start panicking!"" - Douglas Adams ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ",18 "Re: Waco ""Inside Story"" (AP) (Was Re: ATF BURNS....) dhartung@chinet.chi.il.us (Dan Hartung) writes: : : Dear, dear. They could have COME OUT. : No, they probably couldn't. If you had ever been tear gassed, you wouldn't be so quick to condem. ",16 "Re: Gun Control (was Re: We're Mad as Hell at the TV News) Steve Kao (k@hprnd.rose.hp.com) wrote: : Frank Crary posted: : : Sure, but the difference in per-capita crime rates predates the : : gun control laws: The homicide rate in England was a tenth that : : of America, back when anyone in England could buy a gun without : : any paperwork at all. : Steve Manes asks: : > Got a citation for this? : Colin Greenwood from Scotland Yard did a study that showed that gun : control has had no effect on crime or murder rates in the UK. His book, : _Firearms_Controls_, has been published in London by Keegan Paul (name : may be misspelled). Others dispute that, like Richard Hofstadter, , and Newton and Zimring's . But, again, statistics between too dissimilar cultures are difficult to quantify. I don't know how anyone can state that gun control could have NO effect on homicide rates. There were over 250 >accidental< handgun homicides in America in 1990, most with licensed weapons. More American children accidentally shot other children last year (15) than all the handgun homicides in Great Britain. (Source: National Safety Council. Please... no dictionary arguments about RATES vs TOTAL NUMBERS, okay? They're offered for emphasis, not comparison). If Mr. Greenwood believes that Brits are much too sober and coordinated to make such mistakes I'd like to introduce him to my friend, Amanda from Brighton. I used to have some pretty nice crystal in my place until she moved in. I've gotten used to the snide comments from guests about the clown motif on my rubber wine glasses. -- Stephen Manes manes@magpie.linknet.com Manes and Associates New York, NY, USA =o&>o ",16 "Re: And America's Team is....But Why? In article <1993Apr20.182807.18366@bsu-ucs>, 00cgbabbitt@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes... > You are absolutely correct. Braves fans are nothing but a bunch of >bandwagoners. Correct me if I am wrong, but 4 or 5 years ago you couldnt give >away a ticket to see the Braves play.I would bet my next paycheck that 80% of >the so-called Braves fans living outside of Georgia at the present time can not >name more than 3 players from their 1988 season John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, German Jiminez, Dale Murphy, Bruce Sutter, Pete Smith, Rick Mahler, Jim Acker, Jim ""Break on Through"" Morrison, Ron Gant, Andres Thomas, Gerald Perry, Ozzie ""The Aeneid"" Virgil, Lonnie Smith, Jerry Royster. How'm I doing so far? NOTE: I am not a Braves fun.n On the other hand, ask any >Cubs fan living anywhere in the United States to name 3 players from any given >year and 80% of them probably could. On the other hand , II like the Braves *much* more than the Cubs. And all I can name is Ron Santo, Ernie Banks, and Don Kessinger from 1969, my favorite Cubbie season. > Granted, the fact that a team wins brings people to the ball park, but >that does not mean they diserve the title ""America's Team"" > The only reason they are considered America's team is because of Ted >Turner and his little TV station which broadcasts across the nation. Right. I've watched enough Braves' games to know a great deal of their players. I like many of their players. The only Cubs games I get to see while living in New York are those against the Mets, and they put me to sleep because, face it, watching guys like Rick Sutcliffe and Luis Salazar doesn't put me at the edge of my chair.u > I'll consider Toronto AMerica's team before the Braves Actually, I notice a lot of anti-Toronto sentiment here in the States. Partly because of some of that post-Series arrogance (thanks in part to ""Upside-Down Flag"" dork posts), partly because Roberto Alomar is about as exciting as Swiss Cheese, and partly because, living in Baltimore during the winters, I've become so fond of O's fans (especially those who call in to Rex Barney's radio show) that I have to side against their most hated rivals. > > GO REDS! Sorry, but METS is spelled with an ""M"" and a ""T"".... =) Jason A. Miller ""some doctor guy"" Frank Banananna: 1 win!!!R ",9 "Re: Back Breaker, Near Hit!! In article <735663225snz@morgan.demon.co.uk> tony@morgan.demon.co.uk writes: >Why do you let such brain dead idiots drive in the US? Because, unlike the UK, passing the average driving test over here usually only requires a pulse & a single digit IQ. Every state controls their own licensing requirements, so it's possible that there's a test out there that actually requires some driving skills, but I doubt it. -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland bgardner@dsd.es.com ",8 "Reprints I have a few reprints left of chapters from my book ""Visions of the Future"". These include reprints of 3 chapters probably of interest to readers of this forum, including: 1. Current Techniques and Development of Computer Art, by Franz Szabo 2. Forging a Career as a Sculptor from a Career as Computer Programmer, by Stewart Dickson 3. Fractals and Genetics in the Future by H. Joel Jeffrey I'd be happy to send out free reprints to researchers for scholarly purposes, until the reprints run out. Just send me your name and address. Thanks, Cliff cliff@watson.ibm.com ",1 "Re: Mormon temples I was wondering if anyone knew any changes to the temple ceremony within the last fifty years.... Also, why do you think they were made (revelation, assimilation to mainstream Christianity, etc.)? I know that the God Makers was published quite a while ago. Could rituals have been changed since then? I am also very interested in the influence of Freemasonry on early Mormonism, especially in the Smith family and in the Nauvoo settlement. Info on any new studies would be appreciated. Thanks, Freddie Eaton llcoolj@athena.mit.edu ",15 "What about sci.med.chemistry There is this newsgroup sci.med.physics and there has been quite a lot discussion in this group about many chemical items e.g. prolactin cholesterol, TSH etc. Should there also be a newsgroup sci.med.chemistry? -- Antero Julkunen, Dept Clinical Chemistry, University of Kuopio, Finland e-mail: julkunen@messi.uku.fi, phone +358-71-162680, fax +358-71-162020 ",13 "Perception of doctors and health care The following article by columnist Mike Royko is his humorous commentary on some of the public's perception of doctors and their salaries. I hope some of you will find it as amusing as I did. ____________________________________________________________________________ [Reprinted w/o permission] ""There's no cure for stupidity of poll on doctors' salaries"" By Mike Royko Tribune Media Services On a stupidity scale, a recent poll about doctors' earnings is right up there. It almost scored a perfect brain-dead 10. It was commissioned by some whiny consumers group called Families USA. The poll tells us that the majority of Americans believe that doctors make too much money. The pollsters also asked what a fair income would be for physicians. Those polled said, oh, about $80,000 a year would be OK. How generous. How sporting. How stupid. Why is this poll stupid? Because it is based on resentment and envy, two emotions that ran hot during the political campaign and are still simmering. You could conduct the same kind of poll about any group that earns $100,000-plus and get the same results. Since the majority of Americans don't make those bucks, they assume that those who do are stealing it from them. Maybe the Berlin Wall came down, but don't kid yourself. Karl Marx lives. It's also stupid because it didn't ask key questions, such as: Do you know how much education and training it takes to become a physician? If those polled said no, they didn't know, then they should have been disqualified. If they gave the wrong answers, they should have been dropped. What good are their views on how much a doctor should earn if they don't know what it takes to become a doctor? Or maybe a question should have been phrased this way: ""How much should a person earn if he or she must (a) get excellent grades and a fine educational foundation in high school in order to (b) be accepted by a good college and spend four years taking courses heavy in math, physics, chemistry, and other lab work and maintain a 3.5 average or better, and (c) spend four more years of grinding study in medical school, with the third and fourth years in clinical training, working 80 to 100 hours a week, and (d) spend another year as a low-pay, hard-work intern, and (e) put in another three to 10 years of post-graduate training, depending on your specialty and (f) maybe wind up $100,000 in debt after medical school and (g) then work an average of 60 hours a week, with many family doctors putting in 70 hours or more until they retire or fall over?"" As you have probably guessed by now, I have considerably more respect for doctors than does the law firm of Clinton and Clinton, and all the lawyers and insurance executives they have called together to remake America's health care. Based on what doctors contribute to society, they are far more useful than the power-happy, ego-tripping, program-spewing, social tinkerers who will probably give us a medical plan that is to health what Clinton's first budget is to frugality. But propaganda works. And, as the stupid poll indicates, many Americans wrongly believe that profiteering doctors are the major cause of high medical costs. Of course doctors are well-compensated. They should be. Americans now live longer than ever. But who is responsible for our longevity--lawyers, Congress, or the guy flipping burgers in a McDonald's? And the doctors prolong our lives despite our having become a nation of self-indulgent, lard-butted, TV-gaping couch cabbages. Ah, that is not something you heard President Clinton or Super Spouse talk about during the campaign or since. But instead of trying to turn the medical profession into a villain, they might have been more honest if they had said: ""Let us talk about medical care and one of the biggest problems we have. That problem is you, my fellow American. Yes, you, eating too much and eating the wrong foods; many of you guzzling too much hooch; still puffing away at $2.50 a pack; getting your daily exercise by lumbering from the fridge to the microwave to the couch; doing dope and bringing crack babies into the world; filling the big city emergency rooms with gunshot victims; engaging in unsafe sex and catching a deadly disease while blaming the world for not finding an instant cure. ""You and your habits, not the doctors, are the single biggest health problem in this country. If anything, it is amazing that the docs keep you alive as long as they do. ""In fact, I don't understand how they can stand looking at your blubbery bods all day. ""So as your president, I call upon you to stop whining and start living cleanly. Now I must go get myself a triple cheesy- greasy with double fries. Do as I say, not as I do."" But for those who truly believe that doctors are overpaid, there is another solution: Don't use them. That's right. You don't feel well? Then try one of those spine poppers, needle twirlers, or have Rev. Bubba lay his hands upon your head and declare you fit. Or there is the do-it-yourself approach. You have chest pains? Then sit in front of a mirror, make a slit here, a slit there, and pop in a couple of valves. You're going to have a kid? Why throw your money at that overpaid sawbones so he can buy a better car and a bigger house than you will ever have (while paying more in taxes and malpractice insurance than you will ever earn)? Just have the kid the old-fashioned way. Squat and do it. And if it survives, you can go to the library and find a book on how to give it its shots. By the way, has anyone ever done a poll on how much pollsters should earn? Royko is a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for Tribune Media Services. ____________________________________________________________________________ -- ********************************************** Vinay J. Rao vrao@nyx.cs.du.edu ********************************************** ",13 "Re: Off the shelf cheap DES keyseach machine (Was: Re: Corporate acceptance of the wiretap chip) In article <1993Apr21.001230.26384@lokkur.dexter.mi.us>, scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) writes: > smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin) writes: > > >Thousands? Tens of thousands? Do some arithmetic, please... Skipjack > >has 2^80 possible keys. Let's assume a brute-force engine like that > >hypothesized for DES: 1 microsecond per trial, 1 million chips. That's > >10^12 trials per second, or about 38,000 years for 2^80 trials. Well, > >maybe they can get chips running at one trial per nanosecond, and build > >a machine with 10 million chips. Sure -- only 3.8 years for each solution. > > Normally I'd be the last to argue with Steve . . . but shouldn't that > read ""3.8 years for *all* solutions"". I mean, if we can imagine the > machine that does 1 trial/nanosecond, we can imagine the storage medium > that could index and archive it. At the company I worked for previously, I received a file that was des encryped and the person that had sent it, went on vaction. Rather than wait two weeks I set up a straight frontal attack with one key at a time. It only took two(2) days to crack the file. No, I don't have any faith in DES. A.G. -- A.G. Russell Dept A06S OLTP section of PALS Group VM ID SC39093 at AUSVM1 Email arussell@austin.ibm.com Phone 512-838-7953 TieLine 678-7953 These are my views, on anyone else they would look silly. FREE THE BERKELEY 4.4 ",11 "Re: Did US drive on the left? Left hand steering wheel placement was not standard until the 20's in the US. Driving on the right has been standard since standards came into being. Interestingly, Chrysler has just begun building right hand drive cars again for export to Japan. ",7 "Thoughts and questions I just joined this group recently and really do not know much about cryptography, but a couple things came to mind while reading through the posts. 1. Is the Clipper chip going to be exported? If not, how will people communicate with other countries? Will they have to do that in un-crypt-mode. Will other encryption techniques be legal (assuming the government cracks down on using others) when going overseas, but not within the states? 2. I've read about authentication systems that use an electronic security card that looks like a calculator to create an encrypted PIN based on the time/date. The host system has the algorithm built into it as well so that it can authenticate a user. Is there some form of encryption technology that would create keys that are only valid at a certain instant in time? The systems would then allow a ""window"" of time around this instant where the key would work. I realize that this technique would increase the amount of information needing to be stored because you would need entire algorithms rather than just keys. But for smaller scale things it might work. Could some similar method be used to make the two 80-bit keys that are issued to police/FBI/etc to tap a phone only usable for one-week (for instance). If further surveilance was needed, they would have to go back to the escrow service to get another key. This would make it useless for local police to database keys they have used. I assume this is not possible because the receiving phone would need to be able to decypher the message. But any thoughts on the subject? Thanks, Tauren Mills Tauren Mills tauren@rigel.cs.pdx.edu ",11 "ringing ears A friend of mine has a trouble with her ears ringing. The ringing is so loud that she has great difficulty sleeping at night. She says that she hasn't had a normal night's sleep in about 6 months (she looks like it too :-(). This is making her depressed so her doctor has put her on anti-depressants. The ringing started rather suddenly about 6 months ago. She is quickly losing sleep, social life and sanity over this. Does anyone know of any treatments for this? Any experience? Coping mechanisms? Any opinions on the anti-depressant drugs? [J.F.] ",13 "HELP WANTED FOR DMORF.......! ============================================================================== Please bear with me as i am new at this game, i apologize unreservedly if i hav e posted another message earlier by mistake. but i digress, could anyone out th ere please explain exactly what DMORF does (dtax.exe). Does it simply fade one bitmap into another or does it reshape one bitmap into another. Excuse my ignor ance..... ",1 "Re: CLINTON: President's Remarks at Town Hall Meeting In article <1qia48INNgta@life.ai.mit.edu> Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org (Clinton/Gore '92) writes: > > > SECRETARY RILEY: Good evening and welcome to all of you >in the thousands of communities around the country that are taking >part in this satellite town meeting for the month of April. > > You know, today is April 13th. In 1743, Thomas >Jefferson was born, 250 years ago. I think that's appropriate to >mention at the beginning of this meeting because since that time he >has been, of course, a person who has been one that we've all >followed in terms of our democracy and the importance of education >here in this great country. The success of our democracy according >to Jefferson really depends upon the success of our educational >system. I wonder if he realizes the irony of a Federal Secretary invoking a rabid anti-federalist in support of federal education programs? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu - ""I still remember the way you laughed, the day your pushed me down the elevator shaft; I'm beginning to think you don't love me anymore."" - ""Weird Al"" ",18 "Cross, Sobel & Roberts Filters ? I saw an imaging program some time ago on an Amiga that had Cross, Sobel and Roberts filters for edge detection. Can anybody direct me to these algorithms. Paul Denize -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Denize Internet: PDenize@Waikato.ac.nz Department of Computer Science University of Waikato phone: ++64 7 8562-889 Hamilton Ext 8743 NEW ZEALAND fax : ++64 7 8560-135 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",1 "Re: ARMENIA SAYS IT COULD SHOOT DOWN TURKISH PLANES In article <1993Apr20.164517.20876@kpc.com> henrik@quayle.kpc.com writes: [stuff deleted] > Country. Turks and Azeris consistantly WANT to drag ARMENIA into the > KARABAKH conflict with Azerbaijan. Gimme a break. CAPITAL letters, or NOT, the above is pure nonsense. It seems to me that short sighted Armenians are escalating the hostilities while hoping that Turkey will stay out. Stop and think for a moment, will you? Armenia doesn't need anyone to drag her into the conflict, it is a part of it. >The KARABAKHI-ARMENIANS who have lived >in their HOMELAND for 3000 years (CUT OFF FROM ARMENIA and GIVEN TO AZERIS >BY STALIN) are the ones DIRECTLY involved in the CONFLICT. They are defending >themselves against AZERI AGGRESSION. Huh? You didn't expect Azeri's to be friendly to forces fighting with them within their borders? [...] > At last, I hope that the U.S. insists that Turkey stay out of the KARABAKH > crisis so that the repeat of the CYPRUS invasion WILL NEVER OCCUR again. You're not playing with a full deck, are you? Where would Turkey invade? Are you throwing the Cyprus buzzword around with s.c.g. in the header in hopes that the Greek netters will jump the gun? Yes indeed Turkey has the military prowess to intervene, what she wishes she had, however, is the diplomatic power to stop the hostilities and bring the parties to the negotiating table. That's hard to do when Armenians are attacking Azeri towns. Armenian leaders are lacking the statesmanship to recognize the futility of armed conflict and convince their nation that a compromise that leads to stability is much better than a military faits accomplis that's going to cause incessant skirmishes. Think of 10 or 20 years down the line -- both of the newly independent countries need to develop economically and neither one is going to wipe the other out. These people will be neighbors, would it not be better to keep the bad blood between them minimal? If you belong to the Armenian diaspora, keep in mind that what strikes your fancy on the map is costing the local Armenians dearly in terms of their blood and future. It's easy to be comfortable abroad and propagandize craziness to have your feelings about Turks tickled. The Armenians in Armenia and N-K will be there, with the same people you seem to hate as their neighbors, for maybe 3000 years more. The sooner there's peace in the region the better it is for them and everyone else. I'd push for compromise if I were you instead of hitting the caps-lock and spreading inflammatory half-truths. cheers, BM ",17 "Re: Early BBDDD Returns? In article <1993Apr16.073051.9160@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes: >Just curious if anyone has started to standout early in the season in the >BB DDD this year.... The tater that Jack Morris served to Griffey the Younger in his first at-bat this year went 394 feet, if I remember right (I'll have to check my scorecard at home). I think that's the longest so far in the Kingdome through the first stand (five games) there. A weak showing, despite some promising taterball candidates ... Ben McDonald, Rich DeLucia, and the rest of the Mariner bullpen ... making appearances. Anyone have the tape-measure value for Omar Vizquel's grand slam in the Skydome? --- Jeff Brown Big Enchilada of the Brown Bag Lunches Astronomy Dept. jbrown@u.washington.edu U. of Washington jbrown@phast.phys.washington.edu ",9 "Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW] In article danb@shell.portal.com (Dan E Babcock) writes: >In article arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes: >>In article <115694@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes: >>>I think many reading this group would also benefit by knowing how >>>deviant the view _as I've articulated it above_ (which may not be >>>the true view of Khomeini) is from the basic principles of Islam. >>From the point ov view of an atheist, I see you claim Khomeini wasn't >>practicing true Islam. But I'm sure that he would have said the same about >>you. How am I, a member of neither group, supposed to be able to tell which >>one of you two is really a true Muslim? >Easy - just read the Koran. Because the Koran is perfect, there is >no possibility of disagreement. :-) :-) Okay, I see smilies, so this isn't supposed to be a serious post. On the other hand, I would suppose it does has some motivation behind it. Apparently the idea is to poke fun at religion, but there is presumably some sort of reasoning behind it. As an argument, this statement is worthless. Presuming the Qur'an is a perfect religious text (whatever that might be) there is still plenty of room for disagreement about its implications for issues far from essentials. I've already responded to the question of how a judgment might be made between two people who in fact _do_ disagree about Islam, which doesn't presume anything about the Qur'an other than its having sufficient clarity for all important disputes about the basic principles of Islam. This hardly constitutes a claim that no two people could have disagreements about _all_ issues relevant to Islam. Gregg ",0 "Marian Apparitions #1 The Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to Catherine Laboure, a nun of the sisters of Charity on July 18, 1830 at Rue du Bac, Paris. Sister Catherine was awakened late that night by a small boy, age 5 or 6, who was literally glowing with some sort of interior light. The child led her to the sanctuary of the chapel where he promised the Virgin Mary was to be found awaiting her. Our Lady appeared to her and instructed her for two hours or more on matters pertaining to her life and to the future of France and the world. On November 27 Our Lady appeared again to Catherine. She instructed her to have a medal struck. She told her that those who wore this medal would enjoy special protection from the Mother of God and would receive great graces. In less than a year there were three more apparitions. In June of 1831 the medals were a reality. Many reports were received by those who wore it. Within two years of its issuing the medal was known as the ""Miraculous Medal"". Catherine died in 1876. Her body to this day is remarkably preserved (incorrupt). She was canonized on July 27, 1947. Her body lies in the chapel at the motherhouse on the Rue du Bac where she had her first meeting with Our Lady. The apparition on November 27 1830 was of average height and clothed in white with a veil that flowed over the head and fell to the floor. Above the altar, a pyramid painted to represent God's all knowing wisdom looked down on them. Our Lady's feet rested on a white globe and there was also a green serpent with yellow spots that she was stepping on. In her hands was a golden ball that represented the world. Great streams of light issued from her hands and she also showed Catherine an image of two hearts, the Sacred Heart wrapped in piercing thorns and her own heart punctured by a sword. The sword represented her suffering with Jesus. The apparitions announced the onset of the great battle and forewarned that a dark era lay in the immediate future. It was the apparition leading up to the recent ones. Our Lady began to dispense secrets. And with the globe she revealed herself in worldwide dispute with the forces of the dark. She told Catherine ""The times are evil. Misfortunes will fall upon France. The throne will be overturned. The entire world will be overcome by evils of all kinds."" Refer to books on St. Catherine for more of Our Lady's messages. A copy of the medal is also available in Catholic bookstores. I will post other Marian events every few days or so including the ones happening today which are still under investigation. These postings serve only to introduce you to these events. Please look more into them and understand the reason for the increasing number and urgency of these apparitions. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Ashley |DISCLAIMER: My opinions. Not Harris' marka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com | The Lost Los Angelino | ",15 "Flat globe Does anybody have an algorithm for ""flattening"" out a globe, or any other parametric surface, that is definied parametrically. That is, I would like to take a sheet of paper and a knife and to be able to calculate how I must cut in the paper so I can fold it to a globe (or any other object). Marco Seirio - In real life sp1marse@caligula.his.se ",1 "Re: Sun IPX root window display - background picture In article <1993Apr19.220817.22480@osi.com>, scott@osi.com (Scott Fleming) writes: |> |> Hello netters! |> |> I have a fairly weak question to ask everybody in netland. I've looked though |> the last FAQ for comp.graphics but I didn't find my answer. Thus the post. |> |> I'll keep it short. |> |> QUESTION: How do I display any raster files, gif files, iff or tiff images |> that I have on my ""root window"" or background? I have a sun ipc, openwindows |> 3.0, Sun OS 4.1.3 if that helps any. |> |> I've compiled POV for the sun and would like to display some of the work I have |> done as a background/tile. Thanks for any help or information that you |> provide. Have a good day. |> |> Scott Fleming |> OSI |> |> P.S. |> Kudo's to the people who provided POV, its great! |> Scott, I'm not so sure if this is helpful, but I usually use XV v2.21. I use Sun IPCs and IPXs, and it works fine. It can display in a good number of ways.(root being one of them) It's also possible to have XV put up a background automatically at login. Hope this helps. Jason Weiler BTW XV v2.21 is on anonymous FTP somewhere. (archie fer it!) ",1 "Re: Radical Agnostic... NOT! The One and Only (jcopelan@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote: : In article dl2021@andy.bgsu.edu (Pixie) writes: : [first post I've seen from the ol' Bug-Zoo (BGSU)] : > There is no means that i can possibly think of to prove beyond doubt : >that a god does not exist (but if anyone has one, by all means, tell me : >what it is). Therefore, lacking this ability of absolute proof, being an : >atheist becomes an act of faith in and of itself, and this I cannot accept. : > I accept nothing on blind faith. : Invisible Pink Flying Unicorns! Need I say more? There is also the question of what is meant by ""atheist"". A familiar example of the importance of the meaning of the word is as follows. The two statements following ARE consistent: (1) I do not believe that you are wearing lilac socks (2) I do not believe that you are are not wearing lilac socks The two statements following are NOT consistent: (3) I do believe that you are wearing lilac socks (4) I do believe that you are are not wearing lilac socks Statements (1) and (2) require no faith, they make no presumptions about the nature of reality. Statements (3) and (4) require belief. Many atheists (myself included) take the following position: (5) I do not believe that there is a god. (6) I do not believe that there is not a god. That is , I harbor no beliefs at all, there is no good evidence for god existing or not. Some folks call this agnosticism. It does not suffer from ""blind faith"" at all. I think of it as ""Don't worry, be happy"". ",0 "Re: Internet resources STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU Pontificated: >I am taking a course entitled ""Exploring Science Using Internet"". >For our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources >dealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was >wondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet >that provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that. > One of the sci.space FAQ postings deal with this. It's archived somewhere. Perhaps someone can post where it is (I don' remember). /~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\ |I didn't do it! Nobody saw me do it! You can't prove anything! | | | ",14 "Re: Well blow me down. yuk,yuk,yuk In article <1993Apr23.121316.1564@news.columbia.edu>, rdc8@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Robert D Castro) writes: |> When/How do you decide that it is too windy to ride? |> Too easy. When you are dragging your pegs while driving in a straight line. Actually I've driven in 50 mph side winds with just a little difficulty. =================================================== = The Beav |Mike Beavington| Dod:9733 = = V65Sabre mbeaving@bnr.ca = = My employer has no idea what I'm talking about! = =================================================== ",8 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes: >Theory of Creationism: MY theistic view of the theory of creationism, (there >are many others) is stated in Genesis 1. In the beginning God created >the heavens and the earth. This is a belief, not a theory. A theory makes predictions and is falsi- fiable. What you've stated makes no predictions and is not falsifiable. If it was that easy, the ICR wouldn't have it as rough as they do :-). -- Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SCIC Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley ---------------------------------------- ""A system admin's life is a sorry one. The only advantage he has over Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare. On the other hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions of their own innards!"" -Michael O'Brien ",19 "Re: Los Angeles Freeway traffic reports In article cfb@fc.hp.com (Charlie Brett) writes: >: While driving through the middle of nowhere, I picked up [KNX], AM 1070, >: a clear-channel station based in Los Angeles. They had an ad >: claiming that they were able to get traffic flow information from >: all of the thousands of traffic sensors that CalTrans has placed >: under the pavement. Does CalTrans sell this info? Does [KNX] have >: an exclusive? What's the deal? Well, they claim they are the only radio broadcaster with this information. But the city's cable channel (35 in CableVision areas) shows this information map during travel times (6-9am and 4-7pm, I believe). Most of the major LA freeways are covered. The computer-generated map shows green, yellow, red, or flashing red (respectively: <40mph, 25-40mph, >25mph, and ""incident""--I might be off a little on the speeds, since this is from memory). I often look at this display in the morning to see if I really want to fight the traffic on the Sepulveda Pass or work from home for a little while to wait for it to clear. Another poster explained the origin of the information: sensors (embedded wire loops) in the pavement near ramps and every half mile or so. CalTrans has had a ""big board"" driven from this data in their traffic control center for some time. I don't know if they are selling the data or if anyone with the equipment necessary for its transmission and display can have it. -Ed Hall edhall@rand.org ",12 "Re: homosexual issues in Christianity whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) sent in a list of verses which he felt condemn homosexuality. mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) wrote in response that some of these verses ""are used against us only through incredibly perverse interpretations"" and that others ""simply do not address the issues."" In response, I wrote: >I can see that some of the above verses do not clearly address the issues, >however, a couple of them seem as though they do not require ""incredibly >perverse interpretations"" in order to be seen as condemning homosexuality. > >""... Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, >nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, >nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were >some of you..."" I Cor. 6:9-11. > >Would someone care to comment on the fact that the above seems to say >fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God? How does this apply >to homosexuals? I understand ""fornication"" to be sex outside of >marriage. Is this an accurate definition? Is there any such thing as >same-sex marriage in the Bible? My understanding has always been that >the New Testament blesses sexual intercourse only between a husband >and his wife. I am, however, willing to listen to Scriptural evidence >to the contrary. [remainder of my post deleted] The moderator then made some comments I would like to address: >[There's some ambiguity about the meaning of the words in the passage >you quote. Both liberal and conservative sources seem to agree that >""homosexual"" is not the general term for homosexuals, but is likely to >have a meaning like homosexual prostitute. That doesn't meant that I >think all the Biblical evidence vanishes, but the nature of the >evidence is such that you can't just quote one verse and solve things. If you are referring to the terms ""effeminate"" and ""homosexuals"" in the above passage, I agree that the accuracy of the translation has been challenged. However, I was simply commenting on the charge that it is an ""incredibly perverse"" interpretation to read this as a condemnation of homosexuality. Such a charge seems to imply that no reasonable person would ever conclude from the verse that Paul intended to condemn homosexuality; however, I think I can see how a reasonable person might very well take this view of the verse. Therefore I do not believe it is ""incredibly perverse"" to read it in this way. >I think your argument from fornication is circular. Why is >homosexuality wrong? Because it's fornication. Why is it >fornication? Because they're not married. Why aren't they married? >Because the church refuses to do a marriage ceremony. Why does the >church refuse to do a marriage ceremony? Because homosexuality is >wrong. In order to break the circle there's got to be some other >reason to think homosexuality is wrong. > >--clh] Actually, I wasn't thinking of the church at all. After all, a couple doesn't have to be married by a minister. A secular justice of the peace could do the job, and the two people would be married. My point was that it is easy to find a biblical basis for heterosexual marriage, but where in the Bible would one get a Christian marriage between two people of the same sex? And if you do see a biblical basis for same-sex marriages, how willing would gay Christians be to ""save themselves"" for such a marriage and to never have sexual intercourse with anyone outside of that marriage relationship? Please note that I am not trying to imply that gay Christians would not be willing to be so monogamous, I am genuinely interested in hearing opinions on the subject. I have heard comments from gays in the past that lead me to believe they regard promiscuity as one of the main points of being homosexual, yet I tend to doubt that gays who want to be Christian would advocate such a position. So what is the gay view? - Mark [Yes, I agree that a reasonable person might conclude that Paul is condemning homosexuality. I was responding to certain details of your posting. That doesn't mean I agree with Michael in all respects. --clh] ",15 "convertion program to gremlin I was wondering if somebody knows of a PD program for converting any graphic formats such as fig, pic, unixplot, tek, etc. to gremlin. Thanks, Dan. ",1 "Re: ABC coverage In article Anna Matyas writes: >Thorne is good and I've always been a fan of Clement (but I miss >Mike Emrick!). My boyfriend, who is not a hockey fan, even looked up >at one point and said, ""These guys are pretty good announcers."" (This >is the same guy who said that Rick Tocchet looks like Charles Bronson...:) Did your boyfriend comment on the fact that Clement looks like a walking ad for Brillo pad hair replacement therapy? The guy's just a stuffed shirt who thinks he's the greatest hockey analyst since Howie Meeker (for gosh sakes). I'll take Schoenie any day. George -- George Ferguson ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu Dept. of Computer Science UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson University of Rochester VOX: (716) 275-2527 Rochester NY 14627-0226 FAX: (716) 461-2018 ",10 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? >A CNN factiod in the last few months stated that 40% of all the computers >in the U.S. are left on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't recall >CNN's source. > >ljones@utkvx.utk.edu (Leslie Jones) yeah, but most of those are Big Hulking Mainframes which have no monitors. factoid : FAbricated or Corrupted Tidbit of Ordinary Information (Diluted) ok dpm -- murphy@npri6.npri.com (systems programmer at large) When every one is dead 602 Cameron St. the Great Game is finished Alexandria, VA 22314 Not before. (703) 683-9090 --- Hurree Babu, ""Kim"" ",4 "Re: NC vs Hunt (Marine Gay Bashing in Wilmington NC) verdict tfarrell@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Thomas Farrell) writes: |>So you feel that the defendents should have been convicted regardless of the |>evidence. Now that would truely be a sad day for civil rights. |I don't know about everybody else, but to me, they should have been |convicted BECAUSE of the evidence, which in my mind was quite |sufficient. What evidence are you aware of. What was reported in the media, or all of the evidence that was presented at the trial. This sounds to me a lot like the first Rodney King 5 trial. A bunch of people who saw 10 to 15 seconds out of a several minute long video, decided that they knew more than people who had sat through a two week trial. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com ",18 "Re: Do trains have radar? In article <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com>, hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes: |> |> While taking an extended Easter vacation, I was going north on I-45 |> somewhere between Centerville, TX and Dallas, TX and I came upon a |> train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over |> the northbound lanes. There appeared to be movement within the cab |> and out of curiosity I slowed to 85 to get a better look. Just as I |> passed from underneath the trestle, my radar detector went into full |> alert - all lights lit and all chirps, beeps, and buzzes going strong. |> I thought I had been nailed good but no police materialized. |> |> Could this have been caused by the train's radio or what? |> |> |> TRAVIS Boy, Travis.. Were you LUCKY!!.. you went under the new Texas Rangers Stealth Patrol Car! Good thing you slowed down! Newsgroups: rec.autos Distribution: world Followup-To: References: <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> From: dje@bmw535.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Don Eilenberger) Organization: Subject: Re: Do trains have radar? Keywords: ",7 "Re: More Cool BMP files?? james@dlss2 (James Cummings) writes: >In article <1993Apr17.023017.17301@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> rwang@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (John Wang) writes: > |Hi, everybody: > | I guess my subject has said it all. It is getting boring > |looking at those same old bmp files that came with Windows. So, > |I am wondering if there is any body has some beautiful bmp file > |I can share. Or maybe somebody can tell me some ftp site for > |some bmp files, like some scenery files, some animals files, > |etc.... I used to have some, unfortunately i delete them all. > | > |Anyway could me give me some help, please??? > | > In response to a ""different"" kinda wallpaper, here's what I >use. I think the original gif/whatever was called ""not_real"". The >artist name and logo is in the lower right corner. You will need VGA >I think, and I have this sized for 800x600 256 color screens. Use >this in your Windows directory and do not tile it. Hope you enjoy. >BEGIN ----------------------- CUT HERE --------------- >begin 666 ntreal.bmp >M0DTV5P< #8$ H ( , %@"" ! @ >M $ ! @@P![( @ ""!A> #!_F #CD ,56# #D. !=>_D >M4PA: &4H@P""L,1 $U); &N+L0 ($!@ +4WA !,J.0 B/%H 9TJ3 $KKZP 0 >M,;, TD4I /ZGB0!)#UH (0A. ""6E@ I !@ 4B!I "" ! !BBZX #!E1 )BV Deleted a lot of stuff!!!!!!! How do you convert this to a bit map??? ",2 "Re: The Responsibles of the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslims. In article <30962@galaxy.ucr.edu> raffi@watnxt08.ucr.edu (Raffi R Kojian) writes: >> during the period of 1914 to 1920, the Armenian Government >> ordered, incited, assisted and participated in the genocide of 2.5 million >> Muslim people because of race, religion and national origin? The x-Soviet >MY GOSH!!! Sedar, WHAT ARMENIAN GOVERNMENT??? Armenia didn't even become No wonder you clown are in such a mess. Let's take Sarkis Atamian's (an Armenian Dashnak sociolog) book, ""The Armenian Community"", pages 97 and 105. Atamian quotes: ""... the immediate question concerned itself with the organization and tactics of revolution. The liberation of Armenia, the immediate aim of the Party, was to be attained by: 1. Oral and written propaganda. 2. Terrorism - both as punishment against the enemy and as a measure of self defense. 3. The creation of an avant-garde of revolutionary groups to be equipped and prepared for action when other nations were prepared for a general uprising. 4. The organization of larger committees to be in constant contact with each other and subject to a central body. 5. Organization of units of guerilla fighters."" Now, on page 105, Atamian's book quotes of Armenian constitution: ""... If the means was revolution, how was the revolution to be attained? By: 1. Propaganda 2. Preparation of combat units and their indoctrination 3. Encouragement of the revolutionary morale of the people 4. The arming of the people 5. Organization of revolutionary committees 6. Espionage throughout the country and the exchange of information with the official bodies and journals 7. Organization of financial zones for public collection 8. 'Fighting and using' the weapon of the terror on corrupt government officers, spies, traitors, grafters, and all sorts of oppressors 9. Defense of the people against attacks from the brigandry 10. Building of roads for the transport of arms 11. Wrecking and looting of governmental institutions."" Many of the recent Armenian terrorist acts against the Turkish people were committed by the brainwashed members of the ""Tzeghagron"", namely, ""race-worshipers"" of the Dashnag Youth Organization. Ironically, again, Tzeghagron was set up by an undisputed Armenian Nazi, Karekin Nejdeh, in 1941 (see Atamian, loc cit, page 389). Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Asante EN/SC hangs SCSI devices I just hooked up my Mac IIsi to a relatively old (1 year?) Asante EN/SC adapter. The 10Base-T connection works like a charm. I installed the newest drivers from Asante's ftp server. The problem begins when I attach one more device to the SCSI chain - specifically a 50MB drive. I power up the drive, then the Mac. The Mac tests memory, etc. Just before the ""happy Mac face"" normally shows up, the power light on the EN/SC goes out, and the boot process stops. So I can use the network, or the external drive, but not both at once. This makes the Asante box pretty much unusable. It doesn't look like a purely electrical SCSI problem, because if I turn on the drive just a second or so too late, so that it doesn't get noticed during the initial SCSI polling, the Mac boots normally and the adapter works, even though the hard disk is powered on and connected. The Mac has *never* once failed to boot from its internal drive up to now (and I've had it for over a year). Here is what I tried: changing the SCSI ID's of the EN/SC and the disk -- several permutations; changing the order of devices, i.e. the EN/SC at the head or tail of the chain; overterminating with an external terminator (both devices have internal ones); underterminating, i.e. removing internal resistors from the hard disk; trying another EN/SC box; trying another identical drive; trying several different SCSI cables. Has anybody seen this? More importantly, does anyone have a solution? Thanks a lot. E. -- Eric Behr, Illinois State University, Mathematics Department behr@math.ilstu.edu or behr@ilstu.bitnet (please avoid!) ",4 "Prayer in Jesus' name Hmm...makes you wonder whether prayer ""in Jesus' name"" means ""saying Jesus' name"" or whether we're simply to do all things with the attitude that we belong to Jesus. Frank D. ",15 "Re: ATARI 2600 Processors In article <1993Apr21.081317.599@das.harvard.edu> squish@endor.uucp (Shishin Yamada) writes: >The Atari 2600 used a 6502 CPU, just like their entire 8-bit line >(400, 800,1200,1400, 1440, 130xe, 65xe computers, as well as the 5200 >game machine). Wrong, it has a 6507. >The 2600 had some extra ASIC chips that were basically >modified graphics chips and PIA's for the joysticks. It had one custome chip (not an ASIC in the sense that word is now understood): the TIA (sometimes known as the 6526, although most other manufacturers list that as the CIA complex interface adapter.) TIA stands for Television Interface Adapter, and it handles sound, paddles and the minimal video hardware the 2600 possessed. There was also a standard 6532 RAM, I/O, Timer (RIOT), plus a voltage regulator and (if memory serves) a 555 timer. That's all. >Later model 2600 >might have incorporated many of the chips into one ASCI, as the weight >of the machines and part count decreased a lot over the years. Not according to the servicing documentation I have here. The 2600 did not change intenally very much at all. >Additionally, I think the 2600 used 2K, 4K, and up to 8K of ROM for >their games. ROMS were mapped into the upper 4K of the 6507's address space. 2K and 4K games were fine, but later 8K and 16K games needed bank switching. Atari (and others) made much of these ""huge"" cartridges. >I have no idea how much RAM it had to work with, but I >would hazard a guess of 2 or 4K RAM. Wrong, it had 128 bytes of RAM from the RIOT. This was multiply mapped into both page 0 (pseudo-registers) and page 1 (stack), and also throughout the bottom 4K of memory. TIA registers also sat in this address space. As 128 bytes of RAM was somewhat limiting, some later cartridges also carried RAM themselves, which was interesting as Atari had provided no write line to the cart. This was managed by mapping the reads from RAM into one address range, and the writes into another, but all the time this scheme ate into the *very* scarce ROM address space. Ian. ",12 "Looking for Magneto-Optical drive advice I'm currently trying to select which magneto-optical drive to purchase. I'm primarily looking at 128MB drives, although I might consider 256MB ones. When looking through MacWorld and MacUser ads, the prices for the 128MB drives seem to range from just under $1000 (for the DGR 128REM Portable, Magic 128MB Portable Fujitsu, or NuDesign 128MB from MacDirect) to about $1600 (for the FWB HammerDisk 130 and Mass Microsystems DataPak MO/128). Different drives use different mechanisms - MOST, Fujitsu, Sony, Epson, probably some others. My problem is that after reading the Nov 92 MacWorld and Apr 93 MacUser reviews of these drives, I'm still not sure what to get. So, I'm asking if anyone has had good/bad experiences with any 128MB M-O drive or can shed some light on the wide range of prices (is spending more really buying me much?), reliability of different drives, compatibility between them, or anything else I should probably know. Thanks. John Sasinowski ",4 "Re: Divine providence vs. Murphy's Law In article rolfe@junior.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe) writes: >Romans 8:28 (RSV) We know that in everything God works for good with those >who love him, who are called according to his purpose. >Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will. >We are all quite familiar with the amplifications and commentary on >Murphy's Law. But how do we harmonize that with Romans 8:28? For that >matter, how appropriate is humor contradicted by Scripture? Both Christians and non-Christians laugh at this quote because it exaggerates something we all feel, but know is not true. Us Christians just KNOW that a little better! :) In God we trust! -Christopher email @ 96csw@williams.edu ",15 "Senator Patty Murrey's tax proposal If you haven't heard yet, US Senator Patty Murrey, a Mom in tennis shoes, is planning to introduce legislation to tax all handgun transactions and increase dealer licnese costs in order to raise money to cover the costs of un-insured shooting victums. She plans to start with $2500.00 per year dealer fees and $40.00 or so, depending on the type of firearm, per gun transaction. She plans to make it federal. She was elected in Washington state under the trade mark as just a mom in tennis shoes. She can be written to via the United States Senate, Washinton DC. She is looking for your tennis shoes. So if you have a pair please send them to her with your feelings regarding this tax. She claims she has heard little from the opposition. Lets inundate her! -- BIGOT! The definition of a bigot is a conservative winning an argument! ",16 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1993Apr21.141259.12012@st-andrews.ac.uk>, nrp@st-andrews.ac.uk (Norman R. Paterson) writes: |> In article <1r2m21$8mo@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes: |> >In article <1993Apr19.151902.21216@st-andrews.ac.uk>, nrp@st-andrews.ac.uk (Norman R. Paterson) writes: > >Just as well, then, that I'm not claiming that my own moral system is > >absolute. > > > >jon. > > > >[list of references stretching from here to Alpha Centauri deleted.] > > Jon- > > [and I thought to impress with my references!] > > Ok, so you don't claim to have an absolute moral system. Do you claim > to have an objective one? I'll assume your answer is ""yes,"" apologies > if not. I've just spent two solid months arguing that no such thing as an objective moral system exists. jon. ",19 "WINHELP.EXE virus? Is anyone familiar with a virus that infects the WINHELP.EXE file? I have recently noticed some unusual system behavior and ran Norton AntiVirus for WINDOWS. It indicated a possible unknown virus in the WINHELP.EXE file in both the MWINDOWS and WINOS2 directories. Neither file changed since I installed my OS/2 system in January as far as I know. Any information about this possible virus and suggestions on remedies would be greatly appreciated. Bobb Samuell samuell@cis.uab.edu ",2 "Re: Why is my mouse so JUMPY? (MS MOUSE) Everyone seems to think that this man's mouse problem is mechanical (its dirty) I have been having a similar problem with my mouse, and it only occurs when ru nning windows and therefore cannot be mechanical in nature. I'm running a mouse systems compatible mouse on a 486 66 DX2 with a trident 1 meg video card and a m experienceing similar jumpiness as well as strange font subsitutions and mous e traces left on screen and windows gpf errors. HELP!!! ",2 "Re: Europe vs. Muslim Bosnians In article <1su5imINNnap@mojo.eng.umd.edu> josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric) writes: >and (1) was soundly rejected. The reasons are pragmatic: even if >Bosnian Muslims are Croats and Serbs who converted to Islam under >Turkish rule centuries ago, none of the present generation has any >clue what was their ancestor's actual nationality. In fact, although I am forced to disagree with you. First of all, one may have been born from a non-Turkish, non-Muslim parent outside the Turkish land, yet still can be a Turk, provided this person calls himself or herself a Turk. Because the designation of a Turk is not a genetic feature, not a racial or religious feature. It is a matter of identifying with the Turkish values. Secondly, the following observations by Westerners were written in French by Ahmet Cevat: ""If Turks had behaved like Christians to use force to convert to Islam the nations which they brought under their power, to which no one could have opposed, today there would be no Eastern problem. But Turks did not do so. They obeyed the word of the Koran to permit everybody ""to worship in their own way"" centuries before Frederick the Great pronounced his famous dictum. Thus, in an age when the Christian Europe itself shed Christian blood and when people in Europe enjoyed inflicting inhuman tortures upon those whose beliefs differed from theirs, the Ottoman Empire became the sole country where the inquisition did not exist, where deaths at the stake were unheard of and where accusations of witchcraft were not made. And the barbarian (!) Turkey was the only country where the Jews persecuted and chased away everywhere by the Christians, could find asylum. These facts demonstrate that Muslim countries provided spiritually far better living conditions than Christian countries.""[1] ""The Turks, who are a conquering nation, did not Turkify the nations that came under their rule; instead, they respected their religions and traditions. It was a stroke of luck for Romania to live under Turkish rule instead of Russian or Austrian rule. Because otherwise there would not have been a Romanian nation today"" (Popescu Ciocanel). ""Turks rule over people under their administration only externally, without interfering with their internal structures. On account of this, the autonomy of minorities in Turkey is better and more complete than any in the most advanced European countries.""[2] ""...human beings hate each other on account of religious differences. This flaw is older than Islam and Christianity. But there has never been any examples of this adjuration in Turkey because Turks never oppress anybody on account of his religion. If enmity on the basis of religion had been such a case of simple contempt among us too, or if it did not keep translating itself into action, many nations in our Europe would probably have considered themselves happy!"" (A. de Mortraye).[3] ""Turkey never became a scene for religious terror or for the cruelty of the inquisition. On the contrary, it served as an asylum for the unfortunate victims of Christian fanaticism. If you look into history, you will see that in the fifteenth century thousands of Jews who were expelled from Spain and Portugal found such a good asylum in Turkey that their descendants have been living there very calmly all through these approximately three hundred years, and are only forced to defend themselves in some countries against the cruelty of Christians, especially that of the Orthodoxes. No Jew is able to appear in public during Easter celebrations in Athens, even today. In Turkey, however, if the Israelites are insulted by the Greek and Armenian communities, local courts immediately take them under their protection."" ""In that vast and calm country of the sultan, all religions and nations are living together peacefully. Although the mosque is superior to the church and the synagogue, it does not replace them. Because of this, the Catholic sect is more free in Istanbul and Smyrna compared with Paris and Lyon. In addition to the fact that no law in Turkey prohibits the open-air ceremonies of this sect, neither does any law imprison its cross in the church. While the dead are being taken to the graves, a long line of priests bear processional candles and chant Catholic hymns. When all the priests in all the churches in the Galata and Beyoglu districts go into the streets and form clerical processions during the Eucharist celebrations, chanting hymns and bearing their crosses and religious banners, a detachment of soldiers escorts them which forces even the Turks to stand in respect around the group of priests."" (A. Ubicini).[4] [1] Ah. Djevat, ""Yabancilara Gore Eski Turkler,"" 3rd ed. (Istanbul, 1978), pp. 70-71. [2] Ibid., p.91. [3] Ibid., pp. 214-215. [4] Ibid., pp. 215-216. Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Long distance IR detection -- I would like to be able to detect the angular position (low accuracy) of an IR emitting source at a distance of about 100 meters (more is better) in daylight. The IR source could be emitting a signature; I'm leaning toward 30 KHz square wave with 50% duty cycle. I am considering the use of a quadrant detector from Centronic Inc. to give information to a pan/tilt head to point the sensor and thus determine the angles. For the source I am considering wazing the heck out of an IR LED(s), possibly an Optek OP290 or Motorola MLED81. Wazing would mean at least 1 Amp current pulses. At this current the duty cycle of the LED drops to 10% and I would need to cycle five of them in turn to get the 50% required. Has anyone done something like this? Stan Burton (DND/CRAD/DRES/DTD/MSS/AGCG) sburton@dres.dnd.ca (403) 544-4737 DRE Suffield, Box 4000, Medicine Hat, AB, Canada, T1A 8K6 ",12 "Re: text of White House announcement and Q&As on clipper chip encryption In article bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes: >rlward1@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Robert Ward) writes: > >> >and since the US constitutions guarantees the right to every American >> >to bear arms, why is not every American entitled, as a matter of > >> Have you read the applicable part of the Constitution and interpreted it IN >> CONTEXT? > >Yes. BTW, the appropriate Amendments were posted here some time ago. > >> If not, please do so before posting this misinterpretation again. >> It refers to the right of the people to organize a militia, not for individual >> to carry handguns, grenades, and assault rifles. > >It's OK, it's OK... Just a month ago I expressed my belief that the >right to have a means to shoot your neighbor is not that much >necessary to ensure a people's right to be free and got flamed by lots >of American gun supporters. So I thought that... > >Never mind. The new Cripple Chip is a purely American problem, so deal >with the mess yourselves. I just wanted to share with you a bit of my >experience of living 30 years under a totalitarian regime (I'm >Bulgarian) - because I thought that it might be useful to you. Oh >well. I think your experiences under the Bulgarian regime are highly relevant. We have too many people with their heads in the sand saying it cannot happen here, as our Constitutional Rights are being trashed every day because the government justifies doing some end-run around the protections by a 'crisis' requiring 'drastic action'. It is most likely that in the future possession of secure encryption tools will be regarded as possession of 'terrorist and drug dealers tools', and be some serious Fedaral Felony. Just like common tools are 'burgular tools' if the police say so, common computer programs (even computers themselves) are now 'hackers tools', and will become 'terrorist tools'. BET ON IT. The insights of someone who has lived throught this are very important. If the US goes the way of the old Soviet Union and its client states as far as individual rights, privacy and overall freedom are concerned, the rest of the world (remember 'New World Order'?) will not be far behind - only a few years. Please keep posting anything you find that is deficient or that threatens ones rights in this thing. For example, a conversation between a suspect and a lawyer will no longer be private from Big Brother eavesdropping. Political dissent allready is very dangerous in this country, all it takes is the government to decide that enough people will take one seriously, then one becomes guilty of 'plotting to overthrow the government by illegal means'. The phrase 'illegal means' is defined as whatever the government wants it to be defined as. Couple this with Clinton's pressing for a 'smart' National ID card (an 'Internal passport'?), with the added wrinkle that anything about you and your past can be put on it, and you can only take the government's word as to what is really on it (since they will be the only ones with the means to completely read and reprogram the thing). Isn't that nice? While the Feds can bust into one's safe without the keys, the owner knows his safe has been broken into. When they break into your 'secure' phone conversations (or other stored/transmitted data in the near future) you have no way of knowing, so accountability as to the legalities has gone out the window. Just like a safe, if they have a legal cause, they can get the keys from the suspect, just like they can get the keys to a safe or the combination from the suspect. Same with encryption: Record everything, get the warrants, THEN decode it with the keys obtained from the suspect. This Clinton Cripple, along with its natural extensions, will make any priviliged communications between client and lawyer, and any meaningful political dissent virtually impossible. Which is the general idea. Any propeganda about its being secure, and the safeguards, and all of that are just that - propeganda to reassure people so they will by into this monstrosity. DON'T BE SUCKERED. BIG BROTHER IS LISTENING!!! > >Regards, >Vesselin >-- >Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg >Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226 Fachbereich Informatik - AGN >< PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C >e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany -- pat@rwing.uucp [Without prejudice UCC 1-207] (Pat Myrto) Seattle, WA If all else fails, try: ...!uunet!pilchuck!rwing!pat WISDOM: ""Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former."" - Albert Einstien ",11 "Re: Vandalizing the sky. In article <1993Apr30.170718.1218@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: > In gfk39017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George F. Krumins) writes: > >>I was suggesting that the minority of professional and amateur astronomers >>have the right to a dark, uncluttered night sky. > > And from whence does this right stem, that it overrides the 'rights' > of the rest of us? > Let me get this right - sorry, try again. Let me get this straight - well maybe that too is a poor choice of words - someone might think I'm pushing a gay agenda. How about: let me try to understand this by re-phrasing it as an extreme. I, as a minority of one, have no right to a beautiful world. You, on the other hand have the right to make an ugly one because you presume to speak for all the rest. And I cannot complain. Curious. .. >>I say: >>What I'm objecting to here is a floating billboard that, presumably, >>would move around in the sky. I, for one, am against legislating >>at all. I just wish that people had a bit of common courtesy, and >>would consider how their greed for money impacts the more ethereal and >>aesthetic values that make us human. This includes the need for wild >>and unspoiled things, including the night sky. > > Oh, I see. You don't want any legislation that might impinge on you; > you just want everyone else on the planet to do what you want. > And do you want everyone to do as you wish (insist on putting something up that will impact everyone for selfish reasons) _without_ any legislation? And no one else can even object? Somehow I think this whole shoving contest has gotten way off the track. I'm ready to let this thread die a quick and merciful death. > -- > ""Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live > in the real world."" -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. Wm. Hathaway Baltimore MD ",14 "PC BOARD Layout Help Hi, I have a few questions about laying out a PCB. I am using easytrax for dos which is a great program. But what my question is When laying out traces what thickness should they be? I am mainly designing low voltage low current boards for micro controller apps. What should pad sizes be for resistors? I will be turning to a commercial PCB maker to produce 1's of these boards and I was wondering what is the minimum distance traces should be from each other. Well any info would be great. Thanks. Anton ",12 "Re: Merlin, Mithras and Magick kosinski@us.oracle.com (Kevin Osinski) writes: > I recall reading in Michael (?) Rutherford's novel ""Sarum"" a scene in > which the son of a Roman nobleman living in Britain takes part in a > secret ceremony involving a bull. He stands naked in a pit covered > with some sort of scaffolding while assistants coax a bull to stand on > the scaffolding. They then fatally stab the bull, which douses the > worshipper in the pit with blood. This is supposedly some sort of > rite of passage for members of the bull cult. I wonder if this is > related to the Mithras cult? Yes, this is certainly one of the traditional ideas about the Mithraic cult (although not the only one.) It had many elements that seem to have been borrowed by Catholicism (e.g. the Mass, communion, the sharing of a sacred meal, consecration of bread and wine, etc.) For quite an amusing novel that uses this same idea, check out: The Covenant of the Flame by David Morrell. It has some quite interesting occult bits, and lots of killing. I won't spoil it by revealing the ending, but I will say that it is relevant to Mithraism. -- paul@actrix.co.at (Paul Gillingwater) Home Office in Vienna, Austria ** If you read news with rn or trn, ask me about EEP! the .newsrc editor! ",19 "Re: Space Manuevering Tug (was HST servicing mission_) In article jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes: >prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: > >>I wrote: >>>prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: > >My data shows that the OMS engines hold 10,900 kg of propellant. Of that, a >substantial fraction is going to be used for the first OMS burn, the reentry >burn and the reserve. So Pat, tell us how much fuel the altitude change is >going to take, and how much the EDO pallet, BUS-1 and extra parts are going >mass. If you can make the numbers work out, _then_ I'll be interested. After >you show us that it can be done, then tell us how much the EDO pallet, BUS-1 >and extra equipment is going to cost. > I don't know. Does anyone in NASA land know how much fuel is budgeted for the altitude change? Henry, any figures on the mass (full) for the EDO pallet plus it's dry weight? How about for the dry mass of Bus-1? it was being de-classified as i checked last. Also, I need. 1) current orbital parameters of HST 2) projected orbital parameters after re-boost. 3) Discovery's DRY weight 4) HST's Dry weight. >>I somehow think they could train up a new EVA in 8 months. > >First, while astronauts certainly have done EVAs with minimal planning, that was >because they _had_ to. They don't like to do that as a general rule. > So how long do they need to train? a year? 2 years? somehow I think 2-3 moths should be adequate. >Second, remember why they had to improvise during Intelsat 6? They were trying >to attach a motor to a piece of hardware that wasn't designed to do that. >Trying to shortcut the training is only going to make a repeat more likely. > Also because they significantly lacked on-orbit EVA experience. The HST is designed for on-orbit servicing. it should be a lot easier. >Third, they don't have eight months. They have however much time is left >after someone comes up with a plan, shows it can work and gets it approved. >You may think I have a pessimistic attitude. I think it's realistic. I'm not >saying that the engineering task is impossible (few engineering tasks are). >What I'm saying is that this is neither cost effective nor feasible under NASA >management. > There comes a time in every project, to kill the management. They can if neccessary, re-schedule the HST mission. December is not a drop dead date, unlike say the LDEF retrieval mission. > >""All they have to do is soup it up?"" Just what does that mean? > I suspect, the BUS-1, may not have enough basic thrust for the HST re-boost. it mayu need bigger tanks, or bigger thrusters. My understanding is the Second HST servicing mission is not a contingency. My understanding is the mission needs both a new FOC and work on the electrical system, plus another re-boost. > >>If the SMT can avoid a second servicing mission that's $500 million >>saved. > >No Pat. That's $500 million minus the cost of the new hardware, minus the cost >of the extra struff you want to bring along, minus development and mangement >costs, minus extra operating costs. TANSTAAFL. > Somehow, i think the cost of an expendable SMT will be less then $500 million. and the extra stuff is real cheap. NASA has lots of suits, MMU's, and the EDO pallets are re-usable. Oh, one double magnum of champagne, now there's a couple hundred bucks. > > >Pat, not only is this messy and less reliable than a device that's _made_ to >perform this task, it also ignores the point. There is a desire to have >astronauts available so that if the door fails to open, something can be done >about it. Unless you can provide a very reliable way of reopening the door, >you haven't solved the problem. That door has cycled, X times already. Once after massive G loading. I somehow think they can work ou;reliability methods to ensure the door works. Also, please tell me how some sort of sublimated material like CO2, or H2O would manage to contaminate the mirror, anything that goes to vapor state, shouldn't adhere to the mirror. somehow, the door, problem can be worked. maybe they can put a one time spring on it. what do they do now, if the door hangs up. that door is part of a intrument safing mechanism. if it hangs up tomorrow, it'll be 8 months until someone gets up there witha crowbar to fix it. pat ",14 "Re: Flaming Nazis Okay, I'll bite. I should probably leave this alone, but what the heck... In article <1993Apr14.124301.422@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes: >In article popec@brewich.hou.tx.us >(Pope Charles) writes: > >>Rhoemer was the name of the guy responsible for much of the uniforms, >>and props used by the early Nazis in their rallies and such. > >The name is Roehm, not Rhoemer. And Hitler does claim that he came up >with the Swastika business. But didn't he credit the actual flag design to a party member - some dentist or other? I believe he gives such credit in Mein Kampf. >>He was killed in an early Nazi purge. He and many of his associates >>were flaming homosexuals well know also for their flamboyant orgies. > >I have been trying to find if there is any actual evidence for this >common assertion recently. Postings to such groups as soc.history and >soc.culture.german has not uncovered any net.experts who could provide >any. Well, I'm no expert, but all of the histories of Nazi Germany assert this. They make reference to several scandals that occurred long before ""the night of the long knives"". The impression that I got was that homosexuality in portions of the SA was common knowledge. Also, a book (by a homosexual author whose name escapes me at the moment) called ""Homosexuals in History"" asserts that Roehm and Heines were homosexuals, as well as others in Roehm's SA circle. >All the books say that Roehm and his associate, Edmund Heines, >were homosexual. I have been able to find nothing beyond that, and >suspect this to be a sort of historical urban legend. Well, you're the one who is in Germany. If you don't believe the history books, look up the primary sources yourself. Those of us outside of Germany do not have access to these. You do. It seems to me that there were plenty of documented instances - several scandals, the fact that on the ""knight of the long knives"" several SA members (including Heines) were found sleeping together, etc. Also I believe some people were complaining about the SA's homosexual activities (seducing young boys, etc). The histories that I've read make a very convincing case. None of this sounds like urban legend to me. >(Irving, a >notoriously unreliable historian, says that Funk, the Nazi finance >minister, was homosexual. He gives no sources.) I know next to nothing about Irving and nothing about Funk. What precisely do you know, that would contradict all of the other history books that I have read concerning the existence of homosexual Nazis? Are you trying to say that all historians are taking part in an anti-homosexual smear? What about homosexual writers who agree with the official history? Don't you think they would have found out the truth by now if Roehm and Heines were not homosexuals? I would think they would want to disassociate homosexuality from Nazism. No one should use any connection between the two to bash homosexuals in any case. >I challenge anyone to document this claim. If you are going to challenge *all* historians on this point (not just Irving), then the burden of proof is on you. Track down the references. Find out where the stories originate from. Again, you are the one in Germany, close to archival material - most people on the net are not. >I *have* found a great >deal of evidence that there were many flaming heterosexuals among the >Nazis. This seems to include all of the worst ones--Hitler, Himmler, >Goebbels, Goering, Heydrich, Eichmann, and many more. Eh? What is your agenda here? To prove that the Nazis were heterosexuals, so that you can bash heterosexuals? Does it bother you that some of the Nazis might have been homosexuals? Does this make all homosexuals bad if this is true? Of course not. And what about bisexuals? Are they half-Nazis? I don't know why it would be so difficult to believe that some Nazis were homosexuals. The German officer corps before WW1, for instance, was notorious for its homosexuality. There were numerous scandals which rocked the German govt. during the late 19th and early 20th century. Many of the Kaiser's friends were prosecuted - the Kaiser was no homosexual, but the Germany army had a long tradition of tolerating homosexuality, going far back into Prussian history - back to Frederick the Great at least, who was himself a homosexual. Roehm was a product of this Prussian officer tradition, and the old German army (like the English public school system), being a well known center of homosexuality, would have been quite willing to overlook Roehm's homosexuality. In addition, some Nazis complained of homosexuality in the Hitler Youth. The Hitler Youth swallowed up all pre-Nazi youth groups, and some of the various pre-war Vandervogel, Bund, and Volkish youth groups were known to promote homoerotic ideals and friendship, and in many cases, homosexuality itself. So it seems to me not unlikely that there were plenty of homosexual Nazis, regardless of the official Nazi dogmas concerning the ""evils"" of homosexuality. Why should this suprise anyone? Homosexuality has always existed, in all societies - it would be most unusual if the Nazis were an exception. No, I don't have any sources for you, as I think the only kind of proof you will accept would be citations from archival material, and I do not have access to these. Nor do I intend to reread every book on the Nazis and on modern homosexuality that I have ever read - I don't have the time. Nothing is stopping you, however, from chasing down those sources. Until you prove otherwise, though, I will stick with the established histories. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ David Matthew Deane (deane@binah.cc.brandeis.edu) ""...Be in me as the eternal moods of the bleak wind...Let the Gods speak softly of us in days hereafter..."" (Ezra Pound) /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ",19 "James and Sirach On Thursday 6 May 1993, Dave Davis writes: > I'm leaning... SIRACH... is more directly referenced by JAMES > than JOB or RUTH is... in any NT verse I've seen. It would help if you mentioned chapter and verse from SIRACH and from JAMES. Job 5:13 (""He taketh the wise in their craftiness"") seems to be quoted in 1 Corinthians 3:19. James 5:11 (""You have heard of the patience of Job""), while not a quote, implies that James and his listeners are familiar with a story of a man named Job who exhibited exemplary patience. It is possible that the story they know is not that found in the Hebrew Bible, but rather another similar and related story. (One has the same problem with direct quotes.) Again, Matthew 1:5 (""Boaz begat Obed of Ruth"") tells us that Matthew knew a story about a woman named Ruth who married a man called Boaz and became the ancestor of David. Since Ruth is not mentioned in the OT outside the Book of Ruth, it seems likely that Matthew was familiar with the book and respected it, and thought Ruth important enough to be one of the few women mentioned in the genealogy. References like this do not prove that the NT writer considered his OT source inspired or inerrant or canonical. But neither do direct quotes. Yours, James Kiefer ",15 "Re: Are Americans sexually repressed? Jamie R. McCarthy (k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu) wrote: : cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes: : > : >Unless, of course, the problem is that homosexuality is a form : >of mental disorder, caused by childhood sexual abuse, as a number of : >recent works suggest. : : Which number is that? Zero? The only time I have heard mention of such a mechanism is with respect to FEMALE homosexuality resulting from HETEROSEXUAL childhood abuse. (and this as only one of several factors affecting the same person) As Mr Cramer appears to concentrate on MALE homosexuality I doubt this is what he has in mind. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Evans |evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk +(44) 21 429 9199 (Home) |evansmp@cs.aston.ac.uk +(44) 21 359 6531 x4039 (Office) | ",18 "What about when there's complete disagreement? (was Re: After stuff) [ There are actually some talk.abortion related comments below, believe it or not... ] frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: > In article <930422.113530.7w1.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk# mathew is.co.uk> writes: > #frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: > #> Specifically, I'd like to know what relativism concludes when two > #> people grotesquely disagree. Is it: > #> > #> (a) Both are right > #> > #> (b) One of them is wrong, and sometimes (though perhaps rarely) we have a > #> pretty good idea who it is > #> > #> (c) One of them is wrong, but we never have any information as to who, so > #> we make our best guess if we really must make a decision. > #> > #> (d) The idea of a ""right"" moral judgement is meaningless (implying that > #> whether peace is better than war, e.g., is a meaningless question, > #> and need not be discussed for it has no correct answer) > #> > #> (e) Something else. A short, positive assertion would be nice. > # > #From whose point of view would you like to know what relativism concludes? > #One of the people involved in the argument, or some third person observing > #the arguers? > > I've just come from responding another of your posts, where some pennies > have dropped for me. But it would clarify further if you would answer > from the point of view of any disinterested observers - perhaps an > observer as likely to be in position A as in position B (where A and B > disagree) in the future, and have his or her conclusion now binding on > them at that time. Well, if our observer X is as likely to be in A's position as B's, and if he agrees that both A and B are making appropriate observations and inferences regarding the situation, then I would expect him to conclude that there is no right answer. Hopefully there would be some other factor which would allow him to make some judgement regarding which answer to accept. If, on the other hand, he disagrees with the principles of either A or B, I suspect he would make a decision in favour of the other one. It is unfortunately the case that not all moral arguments have answers from all perspectives. For instance, I am completely unable to come to any conclusion regarding whether abortion should be allowed or not, from my perspective. In an ideal world, all living things would have a right to life; but in an ideal world, women would have the absolute right to do what they like with their own bodies. Clearly there is no way to resolve in favour of both these principles. Therefore I agree with the compromise solution of allowing abortion up to a certain time after conception, and deciding on the time based on various (sometimes ill-defined) criteria. This is also a sensible move, I think, because it lets people make their own decisions (within reason). And for what it's worth, I am reasonably happy with current UK abortion law. Similarly, the situation in what's left of Yugoslavia is a horrible mess, and I really can't see my way to any sort of conclusion. There, I don't even know enough to imagine what sort of compromise one might manage. mathew ",19 "Looking for Dr. Bala R. Vatti's email address Hi! I am looking for the email address of the author to ""A Generic Solution to Polygon Clipping"", Communication of the ACM, July 1992, Vol. 35, No. 7. I got information about the author as follows Mr. Bala R. Vatti LCEC, 65 River Road, Hudson, N.H. 03051 email: vatti@waynar.lcec.lockheed I want to get some related and detailed papers about the same topic from the author. But I failed to send my email to the address. Any information is appreciated. Thank you very much. Best regards. S. H. Young Kunii Lab Dept. of Information Science Faculty of Science University of Tokyo Bunkyo-Ku, Hongo 7-3-1 113 Tokyo, Japan email: young@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp ",1 "Re: DC-X Rollout Report In article buenneke@monty.rand.org (Richard Buenneke) writes: McDonnell Douglas rolls out DC-X ... SSTO research remains cloudy. The SDI Organization -- which paid $60 million for the DC-X -- can't itself afford to fund full development of a follow-on vehicle. To get the necessary hundreds of millions required for This is a little peculiar way of putting it, SDIO's budget this year was, what, $3-4 billion? They _could_ fund all of the DC development out of one years budget - of course they do have other irons in the fire ;-) and launcher development is not their primary purpose, but the DC development could as easily be paid for by diverting that money as by diverting the comparable STS ops budget... - oh, and before the flames start. I applaud the SDIO for funding DC-X devlopment and I hope it works, and, no, launcher development is not NASAs primary goal either, IMHO they are supposed to provide the enabling technology research for others to do launcher development, and secondarily operate such launchers as they require - but that's just me. | Steinn Sigurdsson |I saw two shooting stars last night | | Lick Observatory |I wished on them but they were only satellites | | steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware? | | ""standard disclaimer"" |I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983 | ",14 "Re: Deir Yassin In article <1993Apr26.234331.7303@Virginia.EDU> rj3s@Virginia.EDU (""Get thee to a nunnery....."") writes: This is such Bullshit. Deir Yassin was an unprovoked attack on the part of the Jews, and a massacre defines it best in my opinion. The village of Deir Yassin had had a pact with the Jews, a peace pact, but the Irgun purposely broke this agreement in order to scare off the Palestinians. I might grant that this village housed armed Arabs [I doubt it] but nothing in the archives and available literature indicates that this was a motivating force amongst the Irgun. The Deir Yassin MASSACRE was part of an over all strategy to intimidate the Palestinians to flee the Jewish Homeland.,...and contrary to your belief, many civilians were killed. Deir Yassin was later advertized by the very Jews who perpetrated it because it was useful in getting many Palestinians to leave. The Palestinians were rightfully scared off, because they did not want another Deir Yassin. I'm not necessarily condemning the Israelites here; atrocities were aslo committed on the part of the Arabs. Israelophiles should just be careful in thinking that they are and were the good guys in the middle east. Both Arab and Jew suck equally. rj3s, you say that there is no evidence that what motivated the Irgun to attack Dir Yassin was its strategic importance. In fact, Begin, who was in charge of the Irgun, wrote that Dir Yassin was attacked for its military significance. Dir Yassin was merely a battle in the War of Liberation. People died. But the thing was never intended to be a masacre. That this hapenned is a tragedy of war - not a crime of the Irgun. Harry. ",17 "re: Gif to 3dstudio as far as simply mapping your logo or whatever onto a cube or sphere, it's quite easy. Just either copy the GIF you want mapped into the map directory or add a map path to the directory where it currently is. Then go into the materials editor and make a new material with that as the bit map, voila.. __________________________________________________________________________ | / |\ | H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ zippy@cyberden.sf.ca.us ] The CyberDen - Public Access Waffle Usenet System - 415/472-5527 ",1 "Re: Israeli destruction of mosque(s) in Jerusalem In article avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed) writes: >Allegations of Jewish >disrespect for the objects and buildings of other religions are >one of antisemitic stereotypes that permeate western culture, and >rumors of church and Host desacration probably caused more pogroms >than blood libel. About 2 years ago, there was a lot of noise about a Church in the Old City of Jerusalem being taken over by a Jewish group. In fact, the building in question was a dormitory that belonged to a church and was not physically connected to any church. It had been leased to a Palestinean Arab for 99 years and a Jewish group sub-leased it from him. The church that owned the building disapproved and legal action was started to revoke the sub-lease. The media, however, made it look like Jewish vigilantes were stealing Church property in Jerusalem by force. >The stereotypes that pervade our culture create >cognitive illusions that reify those stereotypes. Therefore any >claim that appears to reify a stereotype should be treated by >decent people with utmost suspicion until and unless documented. The damage has already been done by the press in the above case. It is not surprising by now, of course, that many ""decent people"" regard the press ""with utmost suspicion"". >If such a claim is cross-posted to a news group in which it has >not been documented before, such as s.c.j, a reference should be >given the first time it appears. Now that the claim has been >documented, I regard the whole episode as disgusting and >shameful. Especially so because the official who failed to >provide proper temporary facilities for the evicted Jordanians >was probably Jewish, and as a Jew I know that he should have >known better. You appear to be referring to Moshe Dayan. How do you know that the ""evicted Jordanians"" were not provided with something else? In fact, this thread indicates that they were squatters on land that they did not own but received compensation for their loss, anyways! Woe to Jews when they feel that recovering land that has been taken from them by force (with ""ethnic cleansing"" of any remaining Jews) is ""disgusting and shameful"". -- Jake Livni jake@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President. ",17 "HELP: looking for Cleveland Sports Mailing List Info I'm looking for the address to join the Cleveland Sports Mailing List. If anyone knows it, I would be greatful if they could email a copy of it to me. If you are a member, just mail me one of the List's letters. I could probably figure it out from there. Thanks! -- MM MM FFFFF Michael J. Fath M M M M F Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics M M M FFF Harvard Medical School M M F Boston, MA 02115 fath@mbcrr.harvard.edu ",9 "WANTED: Xapshot digital camera WANTED: Cannon's Xapshot digital camera. I'd be interested in any other makes, but the Xapshot is the only one I'm familiar with. I need one with a composite output and approx. 50 pictures per disk capability. If you have one for sale, or if you know of a cheap place to order one, please leave me Email at lgibb@nyx.cs.du.edu Thanks ",6 "program to display .gif files? It seems silly, but while I've located things like tgif that can edit gif files, and various tools to convert to/from gif format, I haven't been able to locate a program that just opens a window and displays a gif file in it. I've looked thru various faq files, also to no avail. Is there one lurking about in some archive? Nothing sophisticated; just ""show the pretty picture""? Alternatively, if I could locate the specs for gif, I don't suppose it would be too hard to write it myself, but I have no idea where to even start looking for the spec. (Well, actually, I do have an idea - this newsgroup. ;-) -- If the auto industry were like the computer industry, a car would now cost $5, would get 5000 miles to the gallon, and at random times would explode, killing all its passengers. ",5 "What was the .... In light of the 100 letter over ""What was the LISA"" I thought I'd start a new one. What was the IIvx? I hear it was some machine that predated the main 040 line by about 6 mos, but used obsolete tech. Rumor has it that several were sold.... ",4 "CBC: Canadian for ESPN. Hooray, I hear on TSN that the Jets have won a game, Selanne getting a hat-trick! Of course, here in GOD'S COUNTRY (read Ontario!) I couldn't see that game, nor any other in the VAN-WPG series so far, because our beloved CBC figures no one out here cares about this series (which has looked pretty competitve so far... On Monday and Wednesday nights, CBC could have shown the Toronto- Detroit game, done the news, then picked up Winnipeg-Vancouver. They didn't. Tonight? You guessed it, Toronto-Detroit, the news (not the end of the Jets game), then Calgary-LA. SO, if it's ""Hockey Night in Canada"", why can't this Ontarian see one of the two series with two Canadian teams? Is this too much to ask? Paul Badertscher 35002_2765@uwovax.uwo.ca ",10 "Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition? In article <1qi2h1INNr3o@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu>, mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Mary E. Allison) writes: |> |> Two different Tuesdays (two weeks apart we used the same day of the |> week just for consistancies sake) we ordered food from the local |> Chinese take out - same exact food except ONE of the days we had them |> hold the MSG. I did not know which time the food was ordered without |> the MSG but one time I had the reaction and one time I did not. |> |> NOW - you can TRY to tell me that it wasn't ""scientific"" enough and |> that I have not PROVEN beyond the shadow of a doubt that I have a |> reaction to MSG - but it was proof enough for ME and I'll have you |> know that I do NOT wish to get sick from eating food thank you very |> much. |> If you could not tell which one had MSG, why restaurants bother to use it at all? If you can taste the difference, psychological reaction might play a role. The fact is, MSG is part of natural substance. Everyone, I mean EVERYONE, consumes certain amount of MSG every day through regular diet without the synthesized MSG additive. Chinese, and many other Asians (Japanese, Koreans, etc) have used MSG as flavor enhancer for two thousand years. Do you believe that they knew how to make MSG from chemical processes? Not. They just extracted it from natural food such sea food and meat broth. Baring MSG is just like baring sugar which many people react to. Jason Chen ",13 "Re: Space Marketing would be wonderfull. >>>>> On Sun, 16 May 1993 14:31:20 GMT, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) said: fc> Modern, fc> ground-based, visible light astronomy (what these proposed fc> orbiting billboards would upset) is already a dying field: The fc> opacity and distortions caused by the atmosphere itself have fc> driven most of the field to use radio, far infrared or space-based fc> telescopes. Here's one radio astronomer quite concerned about radio-frequency interference from portable telephones, etc. -- | e-mail: lazio@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu T. Joseph Lazio | phone: (607) 255-6420 | ICBM: 42 deg. 20' 08"" N 76 deg. 28' 48"" W Cornell knows I exist?!? | STOP RAPE ",14 "Anyone heard of _DELTREE_? Brandon Wise bwise@nyx.cs.du.edu ",2 "Re: Gun Control: proud to be a Canuck In article <1pqsruINNiae@hp-col.col.hp.com>, dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff) writes: >Does anyone really believe the Swiss have had no war within their borders >because every adult male owns a rifle? I'm a great admirer of the Swiss, but >500 years of peace on their turf has zilch to do with gun ownership. Can you >picture Hitler, with Panzers and Focke-Wulfs poised on the border, losing >sleep over a few thousand expert rifleman? Not just because of the riflemen. They also have many hard bunkers in the mountains that would be nearly impossible to penetrate. As for tanks, they would be rather useless in such mountainous terrain. >Hitler stayed out of Switzerland because the Swiss run the money in this >world. Gee, that's a new one. He thought it was a different ethnic group. Since Hitler was determined to control, at the least, all of Europe, do you think he gave a damn about international monetary concerns? Also, there's a LOT of gold in Swiss vaults. Don't you think he new that? If he could have, he would have taken Switzerland. However, crazy as he was, he wasn't totally stupid. It would have cost him a hell of a lot to take Switzerland, with no guarantee that an invasion would be successful. He probably figured (or his generals did, when he was listening to them) that it wasn't worth the cost. Al [standard disclaimer] ",16 "Re: Shuttle Launch Question In article <1993Apr18.224414.784@head-cfa.harvard.edu> jcm@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Jonathan McDowell) writes: My understanding is that the 'expected errors' are basically known bugs in the warning system software - things are checked that don't have the right values in yet because they aren't set till after launch, and suchlike. Rather than fix the code and possibly introduce new bugs, they just tell the crew 'ok, if you see a warning no. 213 before liftoff, ignore it'. Good grief. And I thought the Shuttle software was known for being well-engineered. If this is actually the case, every member of the programming team should be taken out and shot. (given that I've heard the Shuttle software rated as Level 5 in maturity, I strongly doubt that this is the case). Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu ",14 "Re: dogs In article <93Apr20.193958.30419@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes: +In article car377@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (charles.a.rogers) writes: + +>This tactic depends for its effectiveness on the dog's conformance to +>a ""psychological norm"" that may not actually apply to a particular dog. +>I've tried it with some success before, but it won't work on a Charlie Manson +>dog or one that's really, *really* stupid. A large Irish Setter taught me +>this in *my* yard (apparently HIS territory) one day. I'm sure he was playing +>a game with me. The game was probably ""Kill the VERY ANGRY Neighbor"" Before +>He Can Dispense the TERRIBLE PUNISHMENT. + +What, a dog weighs 150lb maybe, at max? You can't handle it? + +You have, I presume, thumbs? Grapple with it and tear it's head +off! + +Sheesh, even a trained attack dog is no match for a human, +we have *all* the advantages. Look, if you are worried about being attacked by a dog, just carry some ""Spot"" remover with you :-). ____________________________________________________________________________ Russian Roulette is fun 5 out of 6 times ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Blumstein, paulb@harley.tti.com, DoD #36, ABATE, AMA, HOG, doh #2 KD6LAA, MARC, ARRL, Platypus #240, QRP-ARPCI, NASWA, LWCA, RCMA (CALA905) Transaction Technology, Inc., Santa Monica, CA ",8 "Re: Gritz/JBS/Liberty Lobby/LaRouche/Christic Insitute/Libertarian/.... In article <1qanj0$22d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes: >How many are aware that the Gun Control Act of 1968 is a verbatim translation >of a Nazi gun control law passed shortly before the Holocaust? > >For those of you who think I'm being paranoid in asking these questions, >pray that you are right. Unchecked democracies usually end in >dictatorship. Remember, Germany was a democracy when Hitler rose to power. >Can we be absolutely certain nothing like that could happen today? I can't speak for the organizations you cited but everywhere you look in our society and government, one can see the relentless movement toward one world government. The fact that the media demeans such charished values as patriotism, nationalism and protectionism are some of the clues. The fact that we are sapping the economic strength of americans to prop up a former and possibly future enemy is just another. The fact the words like community of nations, global village and international business are in vogue are others. International corporations are destroying our identy and economy and the propaganda they are playing through the media and government is over powering our ability to resist. Our porous border both people and trade are an indiciation that we have already lost a great deal of sovergnty. The bottome line is that the single most evil aspect of One World Government is that you have nowhere to run to and history has proven that would be a disaster. Beware the LIBERAL and the conservative and the moderate. Think for yourself ",16 "Eyewitnesses of the 'ARMENIAN GENOCIDE OF 2.5 MILLION MUSLIMS'. In article <7MAY199309523207@zeus.tamu.edu> smt9230@zeus.tamu.edu (STEPHANIE TSAI) writes: >Serdar Argic, >I implore you, please stop posting and reposting all those messages >regarding Armenian actions. Call it what you will, but I see them >as ""hate messages"" rather than ""facts"". Every civilization as old >as the Turkish and Armenian civilizations are guilty of barbaric >acts, and this is no longer the time nor the place to espouse such >hatred. What good will it do? I read a lot of newsgroups to gain ""Hate messages"" rather than ""facts""? Sorry, but your argument falls flat on its face. SOME OF THE REFERENCES FROM EMINENT AUTHORS IN THE FIELD OF MIDDLE-EASTERN HISTORY AND EYEWITNESSES OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE OF 2.5 MILLION MUSLIMS 1. ""The Armenian Revolutionary Movement"" by Louise Nalbandian, University of California Press, Berkeley, Los Angeles, 1975 2. ""Diplomacy of Imperialism 1890-1902"" by William I. Lenger, Professor of History, Harward University, Boston, Alfred A. Knopt, New York, 1951 3. ""Turkey in Europe"" by Sir Charles Elliot, Edward & Arnold, London, 1900 4. ""The Chatnam House Version and Other Middle-Eastern Studies"" by Elie Kedouri, Praeger Publishers, New York, Washington, 1972 5. ""The Rising Crescent"" by Ernest Jackh, Farrar & Reinhart, Inc., New York & Toronto, 1944 6. ""Spiritual and Political Evolutions in Islam"" by Felix Valyi, Mogan, Paul, Trench & Truebner & Co., London, 1925 7. ""The Struggle for Power in Moslem Asia"" by E. Alexander Powell, The Century Co., New York, London, 1924 8. ""Struggle for Transcaucasia"" by Feruz Kazemzadeh, Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn., 1951 9. ""History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey"" (2 volumes) by Stanford J. Shaw, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York, Melbourne, 1977 10.""The Western Question in Greece and Turkey"" by Arnold J. Toynbee, Constable & Co., Ltd., London, Bombay & Sydney, 1922 11.""The Caliph's Last Heritage"" by Sir Mark Sykes, Macmillan & Co., London, 1915 12.""Men Are Like That"" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis, 1928 13.""Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22"" by A. Rawlinson, Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925 14.""World Alive, A Personal Story"" by Robert Dunn, Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952 15.""From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne"" by Avetis Aharonian, The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17 (Spring 1964) 16.""Armenia on the Road to Independence"" by Richard G. Hovanessian, University of California Press, Berkeley, California, 1967 17.""The Rebirth of Turkey"" by Clair Price, Thomas Seltzer, New York, 1923 18.""Caucasian Battlefields"" by W. B. Allen & Paul Muratoff, Cambridge, 1953 19.""Partition of Turkey"" by Harry N. Howard, H. Fertig, New York, 1966 20.""The King-Crane Commission"" by Harry N. Howard, Beirut, 1963 21.""United States Policy and Partition of Turkey"" by Laurence Evans, John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1965 22.""British Documents Related to Turkish War of Independence"" by Gothard Jaeschke 1. Neside Kerem Demir, ""Bir Sehid Anasina Tarihin Soyledikleri: Turkiye'nin Ermeni Meselesi,"" Hulbe Basim ve Yayin T.A.S., Ankara, 1982. (Ingilizce Birinci Baski: 1980, ""The Armenian Question in Turkey"") 2. Veysel Eroglu, ""Ermeni Mezalimi,"" Sebil Yayinevi, Istanbul, 1978. 3. A. Alper Gazigiray, ""Osmanlilardan Gunumuze Kadar Vesikalarla Ermeni Teroru'nun Kaynaklari,"" Gozen Kitabevi, Istanbul, 1982. 4. Dr. Kirzioglu M. Fahrettin, ""Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi,"" Kardes Matbaasi, Ankara, 1970. T.C. Basbakanlik Osmanli Arsivi, Babiali, Istanbul: a) Yildiz Esas Evraki b) Yildiz Perakende c) Irade Defterleri d) Cemaat-i Gayr-i Muslime Defterleri e) Meclisi Vukela Mazbatalari f) Dahiliye Nezareti, Kalem-i Mahsus Dosyalari g) Dahiliye Nezareti, Sifre Defterleri h) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Siyasi Kartonlar i) Babiali Evrak Odasi: Muhimme Kartonlari T.C. Disisleri Bakanligi, Hazine-i Evrak, Defterdarlik a) Harb-i Umumi b) Muteferrik Kartonlar British Archives: a) Parliamentary Papers (Hansard): Commons/Lords b) Foreign Office: Confidential Print: Various Collections c) Foreign Office: 424/239-253: Turkey: Correspondence - Annual Reports d) Foreign Office: 608 e) Foreign Office: 371, Political Intelligence: General Correspondence f) Foreign Office: 800/240, Ryan Papers g) Foreign Office: 800/151, Curzon Papers h) Foreign Office: 839: The Eastern Conference: Lausanne. 53 files India Office Records and Library, Blackfriars Road, London. a) L/Political and Security/10/851-855 (five boxes), ""Turkey: Treaty of Peace: 1918-1923"" b) L/P & S/10/1031, ""Near East: Turkey and Greece: Lausanne Conference, 1921-1923"" c) L/P & S/11/154 d) L/P & S/11/1031 French Archives Archives du ministere des Affaires entrangeres, Quai d'Orsay, Paris. a) Documents Diplomatiques: Affaires Armeniens: 1895-1914 Collections b) Guerre: 1914-1918: Turquie: Legion d'Orient. c) Levant, 1918-1929: Armenie. Official Publications, Published Documents, Diplomatic Correspondence, Agreements, Minutes and Others A. Turkey (The Ottoman Empire and The Republic of Turkey) Akarli, E. (ed.); ""Belgelerle Tanzimat,"" (istanbul, 1978). (Gn. Kur., ATASE); ""Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,"" V. XXXI (81), (Dec. 1982). ----; ""Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi,"" V. XXXII (83), (Dec. 1983). Hocaoglu, M. (ed.); ""Ittihad-i Anasir-i Osmaniye Heyeti Nizamnamesi,"" (Istanbul, 1912). Meray, S. L. (trans./ed.) ""Lozan Baris Konferansi: Tutanaklar-Belgeler,"" (Ankara, 1978), 2 vols. Meray, S. L./O. Olcay (ed.); ""Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Cokus Belgeleri; Mondros Birakismasi, Sevr Andlasmasi, Ilgili Belgeler,"" (Ankara, 1977). (Osmanli Devleti, Dahiliye Nezareti); ""Aspirations et Agissements Revolutionnaires des Comites Armeniens avant et apres la proclamation de la Constitution Ottomane,"" (Istanbul, 1917). ----; ""Ermeni Komitelerinin Amal ve Hareket-i Ihtilaliyesi: Ilan-i Mesrutiyetten Evvel ve Sonra,"" (Istanbul, 1916). ----; ""Idare-i Umumiye ve Vilayet Kanunu,"" (Istanbul, 1913). ----; ""Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. I (Istanbul, 1914). ----; ""Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. II (Istanbul, 1915). ----; ""Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. III (Istanbul, 1916). ----; ""Muharrerat-i Umumiye Mecmuasi, V. IV (Istanbul, 1917). (Osmanli Devleti, Hariciye Nezareti); ""Imtiyazat-i Ecnebiyye'nin Lagvindan Dolayi Memurine Teblig Olunacak Talimatname,"" (Istanbul, 1915). (Osmanli Devleti, Harbiye Nezareti); ""Islam Ahalinin Ducar Olduklari Mezalim Hakkinda Vesaike Mustenid Malumat,"" (Istanbul, 1919). ----; (IV. Ordu) ""Aliye Divan-i Harbi Orfisinde Tedkik Olunan Mesele-yi Siyasiye Hakkinda Izahat,"" (Istanbul, 1916). Turkozu, H. K. (ed.); ""Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgeleriyle Ermeni Mezalimi,"" (Ankara, 1982). ----; ""Turkiye Buyuk Millet Meclisi Gizli Celse Zabitlari,"" (Ankara, 1985), 4 vols. Russia Adamof, E. E. (ed.); ""Sovyet Devlet Arsivi Belgeleriyle Anadolu'nun Taksimi Plani,"" (tran. H. Rahmi, ed. H. Mutlucag), (Istanbul, 1972). Altinay, A. R.; ""Iki Komite - Iki Kital,"" (Istanbul, 1919). ----; ""Kafkas Yollarinda Hatiralar ve Tahassusler,"" (Istanbul, 1919). ----; ""Turkiye'de Katolik Propagandasi,"" Turk tarihi Encumeni Mecmuasi, V. XIV/82-5 (Sept. 1924). Asaf Muammer; ""Harb ve Mesulleri,"" (Istanbul, 1918). Akboy, C.; ""Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi, V. I: Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Siyasi ve Askeri Hazirliklari ve Harbe Girisi,"" (Gn. Kur., Ankara, 1970). Akgun, S.; ""General Harbord'un Anadolu Gezisi ve (Ermeni Meselesi'ne Dair) Raporu: Kurtulus Savasi Baslangicinda,"" (Istanbul, 1981). Akin, I.; ""Turk Devrim Tarihi,"" (Istanbul, 1983). Aksin, S.; ""Jon Turkler ve Ittihad ve Terakki,"" (Istanbul, 1976). Basar, Z. (ed.);""Ermenilerden Gorduklerimiz,"" (Ankara, 1974). ----; ""Ermeniler Hakkinda Makaleler - Derlemeler,"" (Ankara, 1978). Belen, F.; ""Birinci Dunya Harbinde Turk Harbi,"" (Ankara, 1964). Deliorman, A.; ""Turklere Karsi Ermeni Komitecileri,"" (Istanbul, 1980). Ege, N. N. (ed.); ""Prens Sabahaddin: Hayati ve Ilmi Mudafaalari,"" (Istanbul, 1977). Ercikan, A.; ""Ermenilerin Bizans ve Osmanli Imparatorluklarindaki Rolleri,"" (Ankara, 1949). Gurun, K.; 'Ermeni Sorunu yahut bir sorun nasil yaratilir?', ""Turk Tarihinde Ermeniler Sempozyumu,"" (Izmir, 1983). Hocaoglu, M.; ""Arsiv Vesikalariyla Tarihte Ermeni Mezalimi ve Ermeniler,"" (Istanbul, 1976). Karal, E. S.; ""Osmanli Tarihi,"" V. V (1983, 4th ed.); V. VI (1976, 2nd ed.); V. VII (1977, 2nd ed.); V. VIII (1983, 2nd ed.) Ankara. Kurat, Y. T.; ""Osmanli Imparatorlugu'nun Paylasilmasi,"" (Ankara, 1976). Orel, S./S. Yuca; ""Ermenilerce Talat Pasa'ya Atfedilen Telgraflarin Icyuzu,"" (Ankara, 1983). [Also in English translation.] Ahmad, F.; ""The Young Turks: The Committee of Union and Progress in Turkish Politics,"" (Oxford, 1969). Serdar Argic 'We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as ways of escape for the Turks and then proceeded in the work of extermination.' (Ohanus Appressian - 1919) 'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920) ",17 "Proton/Centaur? Has anyone looked into the possiblity of a Proton/Centaur combo? What would be the benefits and problems with such a combo (other than the obvious instability in the XSSR now)? /~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\ | ""I know you believe you understand what it is that you | | think I said. But I am not sure that you realize that | | what I said is not what I meant."" | ",14 "For Sale: 1990 Pontiac Grand Prix SE For Sale: 1990 Pontiac Grand Prix SE White, White rims, Gray interior. 58K miles (mostly highway), 3.8 Litre V6 multi-port fuel-injected engine, 5 speed manual transmission. Options include: A/C, Rear defogger, Power steering, Power brakes, Power windows, Power locks, Power mirrors, Cruise control, Power glass moonroof with sunshade, Power seat/recliner (driver's), Power seat/comfort/lumbar/headrest (both), AM/FM cassette stero, Electronic monitor/service system with graphic compass, Stereo controls duplicated on steering wheel, Remote-keyless entry, and others. Asking $11,500. The car looks and rides like it just rolled off of the dealers lot. It has been garaged and pampered. It gets an average of 27.5 mpg highway, sometimes better; city is around 19-23 mpg, depending on how it is driven. Selling because of baby coming soon. Need 4-door family car. Will consider trade or partial trade with Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, or 4-door Pontiac Grand Am or similar American car. Contact: Mike at Home: (508) 881-6312 Work: (508) 490-6963, or michaelq@tlaloc.sw.stratus.com ",6 "Re: The arrogance of Christians To what follows, our moderator has already answered the charge of arrogance more ably that I could have done so, so I will confine myself to answering the charge of illogic. In a previous article, Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno) says: >>If I don't think my belief is right and everyone else's belief is wrong, >>then I don't have a belief. This is simply what belief means. > >Unfortunatly, this seems to be how Christians are taught to think when >it comes to their religion. This is how everyone in the western intellectual tradition is, or was, taught to think. It is the fundamental premis ""A is not not-A"". If a thing is true then its converse is necessarilly false. Without this basic asumption theology and science as we know them are alike impossible. We should distinguish the strong and weak meanings of the word ""believe"", however. The weak sense means I am not sure. ""I believe Tom went to the library."" (but he could have gone to the track). The strong sense means I am so certain that I use it as a basis of thought. ""I believe that nature operates according to certain fundamental laws."" (despite the fact that nature *appears* capricious and unpredictable). Christian belief is of the strong kind. (Though Christians may well hold beliefs of the weak kind on any number of theological and ecclesiological topics.) >Some take it to the extreme and say that >their religion is the ONLY one and if you don't accept their teachings >then you won't be ""saved"". Note that these are two separate ideas. Most hold the first view, but the majority do not hold the second. Is is again a matter of pure logic that if Christanity is true, then Hinduism (for example) must necessarilly be false, insofar as it contradicts or is incompatible with, Christaianity. (And, as a matter of *logic*, vice versa.) >It takes quite a bit of arrogance to claim >to know what God thinks/wants. It is arrogant to claim to know what *anyone* thinks or wants, unless they have told you. Christians believe God has told us what he thinks and wants. >Especially when it's based upon your >interpretation of a book. Most Christians do not base their belief on the Bible, but on the living tradition of the Church established by Christ and guided constantly by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is simply the written core of that tradition. >The logic in the above statement is faulty >in that it assumes two people with differing beliefs can't both be >correct. If depends what you mean by differing. If I believe Tom is six feet tall and you believe he weighs 200 pounds, our beliefs differ, but we may both be right. If I believe Tom is six feet tall and you beleive that he is four foot nine, one of us, at least, must be wrong. >It's all about perception. No two people are exactly alike. >No two people perceive everything in the same way. I believe that >there is one truth. Call it God's truth, a universal truth, or call it >what you will. I don't believe God presents this truth. I think it is >just there and it's up to you to look for and see it, through prayer, >meditation, inspir- ation, dreams or whatever. Just because people may >perceive this truth differently, it doesn't mean one is wrong and the >other is right. Thus you believe that there is a single truth but that no human being can find it. You assert that anyone who believe that we can find absolute truth is mistaken. In short, you believe that anyone who does not share your belief on this point is wrong. QED. >As an example, take the question, ""Is the glass half >empty or half full""? You can have two different answers which are >contradictory and yet both are correct. So, for your belief to be >true, does not require everyone else's belief to be wrong. Here I begin to suspect that your real difficulty is not with the knowability of truth, but simply with language. Saying that the glass is half empty is not a contradiction of the statement that it is half full: it is the same fact expressed in different words. (The whole point of this phrase is to illustrate the different ways the pessimist and the optimist express the *same* fact.) It is, of course, quite true that different people may express the same belief in different words. It is also true that they may fail to understand each other's words as expressions of the same belief and may argue bitterly and believe that they are miles apart. Great scisms have occurred in just this way, and much ecumenical work has been done simply in resolving differences in language which conceal agreement in belief. This does not mean, in any sense, that all beliefs are equally valid. Since some of the beliefs people hold contradict some other beliefs that other people hold, after all obfuscations of language and culture in the expression of those beliefs have been stripped away, some of the beliefs that some people hold must, **necessarilly** be false, and it is neither arrogant nor illogical to say so. If I believe X and you believe Y we may both be correct, but if Y is equivalent to not-X then one of us is wrong and as long as we hold our respective beliefs, we must each regard the other as in error. -- ============================================================================== Mark Baker | ""The task ... is not to cut down jungles, but aa888@Freenet.carleton.ca | to irrigate deserts."" -- C. S. Lewis ============================================================================== ",15 "Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is In article <1qjb40$n4f@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes: |> In article <1qijer$a2r@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> taite@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu () writes: |> #you can't force your view of objective morality on me. |> |> Try me. |> |> [Note to readers outside t.a. : |> |> taite has been advocating violent civil disobedience in the U.S. |> in order to promote his view that abortion should be illegal. Given the |> necessity and the opportunity, I would have no objection to ""forcing"" |> morality on him, if that's what it would take to prevent him carrying out |> his stated desire to ""hang women who have multiple abortions""] What do you mean when you say ""I would have no objection?"" Do you mean it's moral to use force on someone who advocates the use of force? Or do you mean that sometimes we have to use force on such people out of necessity or self-defence, while recognizing that our own actions in doing so are not moral? jon. ",0 "BMW R65 info wanted Hi, someone is selling his bmw R65 ( I think it's an '84 ) w/ 15k miles for $2200. He says it's in great condition and perfect shape. It's got the 2 hard saddle bags, too. Is this a good deal? Seems like an awesome deal. Is it - assuming that everything he says is true ? Thanks, Jae -------------------------- jae@cmu.edu ",8 "Re: Good Hard-Disk driver for non-Apple drives? (Sys 7.1 compat.) In article , jartsu@hut.fi (Jartsu) wrote: > > > Hi there! > > What is your recommendation for a good hard-disk driver software for > non-Apple drives? I would mainly need it for a SyQuest removable media > drive, but maybe for some normal drives too. FWB distributes HDT Personal Edition (HDT = Hard Drive Toolkit), which is what I own. This is less fancy than the ""full"" version, but good enough for what you and I want to do. Casa Blanca offers Drive7, but I'm not that familiar with it. I *think* that both Drive7 and HDT PE can be had for around US$50. I've used Silverlinging at work (v 5.42??), and I like HDT PE much better. IMHO it has a better interface, and easier to understand. Any Drive7 users? James ",4 "Question to Nissan 300ZX owners/gurus (esp 87-89 models) I purchased a used 1988 Nissan 300ZX (non-turbo) last year. I had a question on gear/rpm ratios. Right now in 5th @65mph I'm at 2600-2700 rpms. @70mph I'm at about 2900rpms. Is this about the norm? I'm an auto neophyte so I'm just wondering if these are the proper ranges? Somehow the rpm figures seem high. A friend of mine just told me he can hit 60mph in 3rd on his 88 Chevy Beretta (2.8l V6.) Also, anyone know the top speed attainable (@redline???) for this model Z? (Not that I would try it but it would be an interesting factoid. :) Thanx! Derek -- 'Fire and Love, the two extremes | wojciech@ossek.nrl.navy.mil / ***. that we live between, Fire and |-----------------------------/ ** ' Love, there's more to life than | Surfing or Snowboarding **** the eye can see.' Guardian | ridin' the Wave........._-********* ",7 "Re: Monitors - should they be kept on 24 hours a day??? From article <1r3jl5$igh@function.mps.ohio-state.edu>, by nevai@mps.ohio-state.edu (Paul Nevai): > Yes, I know computers and harddisk drives should be ALWAYS on. But what about > monitors? They generate a lots of heat. Should I or shouldn't I keep them on > 24 hours a day? Any advice? Thanks. Take care...Paul > > Paul Nevai nevai@mps.ohio-state.edu > Dept Math - Ohio State University 1-614-292-3317 (Office) > Columbus, Ohio 43210-1174, U.S.A. 1-614-292-1479 (Math Dept Fax) > > Well, I don't exaclty know what _should_ be done, but what I do is keep my cpu on and turn my monitor off when not in use. I do this as much for easing power consumption as anything though. Turning off the monitor when not in use has the advantage of requiring less RAM than a screen saver (but it requires more of MY memory to remember to turn it off... pretty easy to remember to turn it on though :-) -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Instrument Approach Procedures Automation DOT/FAA/AMI-230 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan D. Oakley ctrbdo%iapa@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu ",4 "Re: Why do people become atheists? Ken, Then what happens when you die? Why are you here? What is the purpose of Your life, do you think it's just by chance you're in the family you are in and have the friends you have? Why do you think your searching? To fill the void that exists in your life. Who do you think can fill that void --Dave-- ",15 "Re: ISA to EISA In article <9APR199312315727@envmsa.eas.asu.edu>, firman@envmsa.eas.asu.edu (B B S) writes: > In article , casey@grace.wharton.upenn.edu (Shawn Casey) writes... >>Hello, >> >>I have a question for anyone that may be familiar with ISA and EISA sytem >>configurations. >> >>1) After I switch the ISA boards into the EISA board (all of the cards are >>ISA) the system seems to work with no problem what so ever. But some of the >>interupt problems that we had with the ISA board continue with the EISA board. >>Is it my understanding that the EISA board should be able to handle IRQ >>conficts when running windows. >> >> Problem: When running our network via telnet (tcp/ip) with windows >> running the system kicks us out of windows (IRQ confict within windows >> I assume). >> >>Also, are there any memory address problems that will happen when the >>boards are switched (base memory that is). > > As far as I know, if you are using EISA mother board, you have to use also > EISA cards or else your computer system will be slower than when you're > using ISA board with ISA cards. > -Bill That's nonsense!! You can use ISA cards in an EISA-system without problem and at the same speed as in an ISA system!! -Luke ",3 "Re: Societal basis for morality In article dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller) writes: >:If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What right do >: we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally mandated morality? >: Pardon the extremism, but couldn't I murder your ""brother"" and say that I was >: exercising my rights as I saw them, was doing what felt good, didn't want >: anyone forcing their morality on me, or I don't follow your ""morality"" ? > > You most certainly could. But, you could also expect the same would happen >right back to you. Every person claiming that thier decisions are not >questionable leads to chaos. It is the pure fear of this chaos that >makes humans come up with a ""code"" to follow. Indeed. But that code is law, not morality. I think the point here was not a discussion of anarchy vs. law. I think that most see the benefit of a non- anarchistic system. Our incredibly high standard of living is based on technology, derived from an ordered existance. We wouln't have got far if we were still bashing each other over the head with clubs, right? The question becomes, is it possible to have an ordered society in which the laws are recognized to be in place based on _enlightened self interest_ as opposed to morality? And secondly, assuming a satisfactory _legal_ code is in place, and we choose to persue individual freedoms as far as possible, is a _moral code_ required or even acceptable? Can an agreement ever be reached? At what point do we start to comprimise? Think about these questions in light of some recent social issues: Topic Legal? Moral? Homosexuality Yes (insertopinionhere) Drug use No ditto Prostitution No (gen.) ditto Abortion Yes (gen.) ditto Prayer in school No (gen.) ditto Tabacco taxation :-) Yes ditto Spanking :-) Yes ditto Reading news :-) Yes No You milage may vary depending on your state/country! :-) Enjoy! Phil Trodwell *** This space ***| ""I'd be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle *** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not *** (cheap) ***| this radio!"" -Hunter S. Thompson ",0 "VXT2000 Windowing Terminal Help E G L I N A F B From: DENNIS L. HART Date: 14-May-1993 02:41pm CST HART Tel No: 904 882 3154 Dept: 646CCSG/SCWA*SAS TO: Internet Addressee ( _SMTP[xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu] ) Subject: VXT2000 Windowing Terminal Help Greetings! We have several VXT 2000 Windowing terminals and associated software on our network. We are able to open a LAT terminal window to any of our workstation nodes but we are unable to get a LAT X session to work. We have customized the terminal security to allow all LAT connections. Trying to invoke a LAT X session from the VXT 2000 results in the following message being displayed in the terminal manager window message area: Host Does Not Support X Sessions (The host is a VAX4000 Model 60 and does support X sessions) Opening a LAT terminal window and logging into the server node, setting the display variable as follows: $ set display/create/node=LAT_###########/transport=lat and then trying to create a decterm on the VXT as follows: $ create/term=decterm/detach Fails and gives the following error message: dectermport failed to find language, XOpenDisplay("""") returned NULL %DECW-F-CANT-OPEN-DISPL Can't open display The VXT 2000 is using its system defaults (ie. default font(s), language, ...) except for the security options to allow all connections and options enabling LAT protocol. we have VT1200 windowing terminals and the above things were enough to allow LAT X sessions. VMS Version is 5.5-1 Running DECwindows/Motif of VAX4000 Model 60s Please help. Dennis Hart Atlantic Research Corporation Directorate of Computer Sciences Eglin AFB, FL ",5 "Re: Help! Phar lap??? Spectre (spectre@nmt.edu) wrote: : Could some one tell me what: : Phar Lap err 35: The 386 chip is currently executing in virtual : 8086 mode under the control : of another program. You must turn off this other program in order : to use 386|DOS-Extender to run in protected mode. : means. : This shows up on a CompuAdd Express 486-33 whenever a program : such as Matlab or Maple is run. It has been tried under dr-dos : 6.0, msdos 5.0, and 4dos 4.01. There is nothing, nada, in memory. : Nothing appears on a virus check. : Anybody? : -- : spectre@jupiter.nmt.edu spectre@cyborg1.nmt.edu : ""This world? And everything in it? *Illusions*, Richard! Every bit : of it *illusions!* *Do you understand that?*"" -- Donald Shimoda I used to get this problem with AutoCad when using the NOEMS switch with EMM386.EXE in DOS 5.0. If you allocate some ram to EMM386 the problem should go away. TMC. ",3 "Re: Turkey-Cyprus-Bosnia-Serbia-Greece (Armenia-Azeris) From article <1993Apr15.092101@IASTATE.EDU>, by tankut@IASTATE.EDU (Sabri T Atan): > Well, Panos, Mr. Tamamidis?, the way you put it it is only the Turks > who bear the responsibility of the things happening today. That is hard to > believe for somebody trying to be objective. > When it comes to conflicts like our countries having you cannot > blame one side only, there always are bad guys on both sides. > What were you doing on Anatolia after the WW1 anyway? > Do you think it was your right to be there? There were a couple millions of Greeks living in Asia Minor until 1923. Someone had to protect them. If not us who?? > I am not saying that conflicts started with that. It is only > not one side being the aggressive and the ither always suffering. > It is sad that we (both) still are not trying to compromise. > I remember the action of the Turkish government by removing the > visa requirement for greeks to come to Turkey. I thought it > was a positive attempt to make the relations better. > Compromise on what, the invasion of Cyprus, the involment of Turkey in Greek politics, the refusal of Turkey to accept 12 miles of territorial waters as stated by international law, the properties of the Greeks of Konstantinople, the ownership of the islands in the Greek lake,sorry, Aegean. There are some things on which there can not be a compromise. > The Greeks I mentioned who wouldn't talk to me are educated > people. They have never met me but they know! I am bad person > because I am from Turkey. Politics is not my business, and it is > not the business of most of the Turks. When it comes to individuals > why the hatred? Any person who supports the policies of the Turkish goverment directly or indirecly is a ""bad"" person. It is not your nationality that makes you bad, it is your support of the actions of your goverment that make you ""bad"". People do not hate you because of who you are but because of what you are. You are a supporter of the policies of the Turkish goverment and as a such you must pay the price. > So that makes me think that there is some kind of > brainwashing going on in Greece. After all why would an educated person > treat every person from a nation the same way? can you tell me about your > history books and things you learn about Greek-Turkish > encounters during your schooling. > take it easy! > > -- > Tankut Atan > tankut@iastate.edu > > ""Achtung, baby!"" You do not need brainwashing to turn people against the Turks. Just talk to Greeks, Arabs, Slavs, Kurds and all other people who had the luck to be under Turkish occupation. They will talk to you about murders,rapes,distruction. You do not learn about Turks from history books, you learn about them from people who experienced first hand Turkish friendliness. Napoleon ",17 "Re: Gulf War and Peace-niks In article <1993Apr20.102306.882@batman.bmd.trw.com> jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes: >Hawaii? We liberated it from >Spain. Well, you were going well until you hit this one. Hawaii was an independent country. A coup by Americans led to a request to annex it. The US refused, but eventually did annex it several years later during the Spanish-American War. -- ""On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey! On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole that she made from Leftover Turkey. [days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ... -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait) Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu) ",0 "Re: Who has read Rushdie's _The Satanic Verses_? Another one rescued from the bit bucket... Over the years the furor over this book has been discussed on a.a. and elsewhere on the net. Generally, the discussion comes down to the contention on the one hand that TSV contains such blood libel against Islam as to merit, if not death, than at least banning and probably some sort of punishment; and on the other that Rushdie, particularly as a non-muslim in a Western country, had every right to write and publish whatever he chose, regardless of whether some muslims find it offensive, without fear of persecution or death. I am naturally inclined to the latter position, but find myself in an interesting position, because I think this is a fine book, only incidentally concerned with Islam, and moreover I'm damned if I can find anything malevolently offensive in it. Over the years, when I have made this point, various primarily muslim posters have responded, saying that yes indeed they have read the book and had called it such things as ""filth and lies"", ""I would rank Rushdie's book with Hitler's Mein Kempf or worse"", and so on. Unfortunately, these comments are usually generalities, and attempts to follow up by requesting explanations for what specifically is so offensive have met either with stony silence, more generalizations, or inaccurate or out-of-context references to the book [which lead me to believe that few of them have actually read it]. Corrections and attempts to discuss the text in context have been ignored. Anyway, since I seem to be the only one following this particular line of discussion, I wonder how many of the rest of the readership have read this book? What are your thoughts on it? -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. -- Jim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC These are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours. ",0 "Re: allergic reactions against laser printers?? In article <1993Apr29.124806.4599@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE>, rdd@uts.ipp-garching.mpg.de (Reinhard Drube) writes: > does anyone know about allergic reactions caused by the developer/toner > of laser printers? What chemical stuff is involved? Mainly carbon dust with iron in a plastic binder that is melted on to the paper. Same stuff as dry paper photocopiers. Allergies? Haven't heard of any, but anything's possible with allergies ;-) Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI ",13 "Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) and HP DeskJet 500... Hello fellow 'netters. I am asking for your collected wisdom to help me decide which printer I should purchase, the Canon BJ200 (BubbleJet) vs. the HP DeskJet 500. I thought, rather than trust the salesperson, I would benefit more from relying on those who use these printers daily and use them to their fullest potential. And, I figure all of you will know their benefits and pitfalls better than any salesperson. Now, I would greatly appreciate any information you could render on the 360 dpi of the Canon BubbleJet vs. the Hewlett-Packard DeskJet 500 (300 dpi). Which is faster? Is there a noticeable print quality difference, particularly in graphics? Which will handle large documents better (75 pages or more) -- any personal experience on either will be appreciated here? Which works better under Windows 3.1 (any driver problems, etc)? Cost of memory, font packages, toner cartridges, etc? Basically, your personal experiences with either of these machines is highly desirable, both good and bad. Advance kudos and thanks for all your input. E-mail or news posting is readily acceptable, but e-mail is encouraged (limits bandwidth). -- Sincerely, Robert Kayman ---- kayman@cs.stanford.edu -or- cpa@cs.stanford.edu ""In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."" ""You mean you want the revised revision of the original revised revision revised?!?!"" ",2 "General questions on software and hardware... I have just been introduced to Macintosh systems. I have a few questions. E-mail prefered. 1) Just what is System 7? I want hard details not dingy commercials like their ads in magazines... 2) Has anyone used the Microsoft Office 3.0? I would like suggestions on, and descriptions on: * each has a microsoft before the actual name. a) *Word 5.1: b) *Excel 4.0: c) *Power Point: d) *Mail 3.1 3) What is the major differences between Mac Wordperfect and Word? Thanks a lot! ",4 "Re: MS Windows VS Motif (GUI design differences), was Re: Future of Unix Ik Su Yoo writes: > >Another important difference is that MSW doesn't have any window that >handle sophisticated geometry management (like XmForm). Is this an advantage to MS Windows or to Xt? I used to think it was a big advantage for Xt, but I am not at all sure anymore... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Smyth david@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov Senior Software Engineer, (818)306-6463 (temp! do NOT use v-mail) X and Object Guru. tempory office: 525/B70 Jet Propulsion Lab, M/S 525-3660 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's the earliest possible date you can't prove it won't be done by? - Tom DeMarco ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ",5 "RE: survey Yes, I know this is not Rec.music, (as someone has already pointed out, thanks I know that), I'm trying to get a random sample and also I'm desperate for respones. So please, don't mail me complaining that it doesn't belong here or that it is wasting bandwidth. This affects EVERYBODY not just readers of music groups. Please either complete the survey, or hit 'n', because I'll just bounce back complaints. Thank you -Matt -- ******************************************************************************** * / \ # Matthew T. Thompson * * /\ /| |\ # Electrical/Computer Engineering * * / \/ |ETALLIC| \ # University of New Hampshire * * \/ \/ # E-mail: mtt@kepler.unh.edu or my evil twin at * * \ / # shazam@unh.edu * ******************************************************************************** ",9