[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi 6E: The Basics

Here's a quick primer on Wi-Fi 6E. Read on SmallNetBuilder.

[Assistant]
Wifi 6e APs cannot have removable antennas (to ensure they stay indoor)? Sounds like the FCC has overstepped its boundaries a bit there, like back in the day where they initially said that routers would need to prevent third party firmware installation (even citing DD-WRT by name in their document), only to have them backpedal, saying that it wasn't what they meant...

Not as if a dedicated modder couldn't just cut the current antenna, and install third party antennas anyway.

The fixed antennas are mainly to try to ensure that the products don't exceed transmit power limits. Yes, some people will ignore this and patch in higher-gain antennas. But the barrier to entry is higher. You need to significantly physically modify the router and have soldering skills.

But it's in everyone's interest to not muck this up. If 6E consumer routers start to interfere with the incumbent commercial users, you can bet that the FCC would make AFC a requirement. Then we'd be back to DFS-like rules.

The reduction in transmit power is going to be annoying and will likely force the use of mesh systems for a number of users that didn't need it so far.

Non-removable antennas could also be an issue, depending on how the manufacturers handle this. External non removable antennas, or internal antennas only? The second case will hurt even more.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi 6 Performance Roundup: Five Routers Tested

We take a look at how five Wi-Fi 6 routers perform with a Wi-Fi 6 client.

Read on SmallNetBuilder.

[Assistant]
Well done, Tim. Thanks for persisting and continuing to put out quality reviews, even if they are fewer over time.

Yes nice review. It looks like 2.4GHz is going to receive the strength it needs to play in the new high speed internet world.

Well written article Tim, your review confirmed my suspicion of poor 5 ghz downlink performance, compared to uplink.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: 2x2 AC Access Point Roundup - Part 2

Jim Salter takes another run at our collection of 2x2 AC APs, this time testing multi-client load handling in open air, with roaming too!

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Thank you very much for the great article.

We run two inexpensive Zyxel NXC2500 controllers in two separate buildings with Zyxel APs on each (we inherited the setup with the buildings). I can tell you that the setup with the controller is very easy and quick, and they are quite reliable ("set-up and forget") devices. You just plug in the APs and the controller picks it up automatically, upgrades it to the latest FW and does everything for you as you would expect from a WI-FI controller.

That being said, the performance of the APs are truly one of the worst I ever encountered, and I spent way too much time with Zyxel experts and also myself trying to set them up correctly . Even if you don't roam, and just sit under one AP with two phone devices at night, there is still a chance that you will get speeds resembling the good old US robotics BBS modem times. It's really unbelievable how bad these APs are, and things were even worse when we had the earlier N300 and N600 models. I highly recommend to avoid their AP products as much as possible.

ps.: An interesting note: They are quite (as much as 10dB) stronger when they fed with POE. That's quite a big difference imho.

Is the D-Link DAP-2610 really a v2? I can't find any references to any version other than the A1 covered in part 1 of the roundup. D-Link only lists hardware version A on their support page and there is only one FCC entry covering a DAP-2610.

The only place I could really ding the EAP-225's interface is in trying to identify the hardware version. This model has three hardware revs—v1, v2, and v3—and they have separate firmware lines. I eventually had to give up and go look at the physical label on the access point.

What is the FCC ID printed on the label of your TP-Link EAP-225 v2, if any?

I do not believe that the extra MIMO stream really gave the A60 any advantage with my strictly 2x2 test stations.

That's surprising to me since 4x4:4 devices typically outperform 3x3:3 devices in Tim's tests with a 2x2:2 STA.

Internet Man said:
Is the D-Link DAP-2610 really a v2? I can't find any references to any version other than the A1 covered in part 1 of the roundup. D-Link only lists hardware version A on their support page and there is only one FCC entry covering a DAP-2610.

You know what, I think you're right, and I brain-farted their actual description of it - which is DAP-2610 wave 2, referring to its MU-MIMO support.

What is the FCC ID printed on the label of your TP-Link EAP-225 v2, if any?

Dunno off the top of my head; but I think the FCC ID on the label is what I went by eventually. Couldn't figure it out from the UI or from the box - having to go chase down the physical access point itself and hunt for labels was what ticked me off. =)

That's surprising to me since 4x4:4 devices typically outperform 3x3:3 devices in Tim's tests with a 2x2:2 STA.

In the real world, I've never seen any correlation between large number of MIMO streams on the AP and 2x2 STA performance. Granted, I've spent more time debunking that on consumer routers and mesh kits (which love to claim ridiculous "AC speed ratings" based on adding up all the MIMO streams multiplied by all the radios multiplied by some extra "just for fun" fudge factors). But nothing I've seen there, or any understanding I have of the technology, leads me to believe that it would be any different in these APs. And the OpenMesh A60 certainly did not seem to stand out here.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: SmallNetBuilder's Wi-Fi Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) FAQ

What is Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) and why should you care? Here's the straight poop.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Nice article...

Note that many clients _may_ support DFS, but scanner apps that use 802.11 Probe Request Messages for AP discovery may fail to see AP's in the DFS space...

Many will do a passive scan first - listening to see if there is already an AP present - the assumption here is that the AP has already tested and passed the radar detection...

I'm wondering if there should be a notation somewhere where Regulatory Domain is really important - and that 3rd Party Firmware that negates the DFS checks (or channels that are not legit in that Regulatory Domain) and transmit levels should be avoided - as this is a common question - esp in certain sub-forums...

There may be routers that support DFS but less clients do especially other devices besides PCs.

I look forward to all your articles Tim. Great article, you explained that all really well. Thanks!


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Linksys EA9300 Max-Stream AC4000 Tri-Band Wi-Fi Router Reviewed

Linksys' EA9300 Max-Stream AC4000 Tri-Band Wi-Fi Router tries to spiff up the 3x3 "tri-band" router market with higher link rates, MU-MIMO and a much more powerful CPU.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
The EA9200 had poor test results for 5ghz. Not sure I’d recommend it.

Costco has the R7900 with the same processor for $199

mokodi said:
The EA9200 had poor test results for 5ghz. Not sure I’d recommend it.
The review does not recommend the EA9200.

5 GHz downlink clearly shows something wrong with the EA9300's performance. I've been working since early June with Linksys and octoScope to try to track down the source of the problem. The BCM4365 radio SoC was suspected at first. But the NETGEAR R7000P uses the same device and clearly doesn't have a problem. This could just be an incompatibility between the QCA-based octoScope Pal test client and Broadcom's new 3x3 AC radio SoC that won't be seen in real-world use. But since the R7000P works fine, there could also be an issue in Linksys' implementation. I've told Linksys I'll retest the product if they resolve the problem.

Click to expand...

At first glance...

That doesn't look like an issues with the PAL cards as clients, that looks like a channel estimation issue - leakage somewhere along the path perhaps, or a bad link estimation threshold on the driver used in the Linksys firmware...


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: How To Fix Wi-Fi Roaming

We reveal the secrets of why your devices don't always connect where you want them to and what you can do to fix it.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
In the box out at the beginning of the article you say "STA (station) will be used to refer to wireless devices". The word "devices" is ambiguous because you've already used it to describe AP's in the first sentence. Perhaps "wireless clients" instead? Just a thought.

Awesome article, Tim - thanks!

Near the end, you mention something that I think is a pretty big issue with these mesh-y systems like Orbi, Eero, etc...

An average joe sees these systems in a store and thinks "Well heck, more must be better!!!", and they get wayyy too many satellite units, thinking they need to put them all over the place to get even more & better coverage.

I lurk in the Orbi support forum, and I'm surprised at the number of posts where people mention having 3 or 4 (or more!) satellites set up for residential service. It's insane.

ColinTaylor said:
Perhaps "wireless clients" instead? Just a thought.
Done.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: TRENDnet TPL-430APK WiFi Everywhere Powerline 1200 AV2 Wireless Kit Reviewed

TRENDnet's TPL-430APK WiFi Everywhere Powerline 1200 AV2 Wireless Kit is an inexpensive way to light up a Wi-Fi dead spot with surprisingly good throughput.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
So I bought this and a pair of TPL-421E adapters and have just set them up to replace the excellent Billion 500 series adapters I’ve been using. My main aim in writing this is so you can avoid the pitfalls I fell into; the devices, while purporting to be from a US firm, have manuals that appear to be written originally in Chinese, I found them quite confusing, the TPL-421E manual made more sense.

When they say “seconds”, I found that “count” was better. So to set a new random sync key, hold down the sync button for a count of 15 until the lights go out, it takes about 7 seconds. If you keep it held down too long it doesn’t seem to work. Similarly, a count of 2, but less than two seconds is about the right time to hold down the sync button to start the sync sequence and the join on the next adapter.

One last gotcha, the wireless access point management page IP address is only 192.168.10.1 until you connect it to your router via Ethernet/Powerline. It then picks up a DHCP address from the router that you’ll need to find and use for management of the access point. You can’t fix this in the access point, if you want to keep it unchanged you’ll need to reserve it in the DHCP management of the router or whatever you use for DHCP.

My initial first impressions are that the Powerline speeds aren’t noticeably more than the old Billion 500M units they replaced. This is on U.K. mains, all 3 wire, and about 10 years old.

6 months on they’re rock solid, not had to touch them since install but wireless range is not enough to go through an external brick wall so I bought another TPL-430AP. If like me your WPS doesn’t work that reliably it’s easiest to connect wirelessly to the new AP first using the code on the plastic wrapper they come in, change the SSIDs etc to suit then sync it up to the other powerline units.

One of the TPL-421E powerline ethernet adapters failed and TrendNet in the UK not only replaced it under warranty but posted me a twin pack of TPL-421E. Other than that they've locked up and had to be restarted no more than twice since I've had them.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Tenda MW6 Nova Whole Home Mesh WiFi System Reviewed

Tenda's Nova Whole Home Mesh WiFi System is the least expensive three-node Wi-Fi System you can buy. And it works.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
In the review it says that the Tenda MW6 supports ethernet backhaul. In the list of cons it says it does not. Does anyone know which is correct? Thanks

thiggins said:
is the least expensive three-node Wi-Fi System you can buy. And it works.

Click to expand...

Mikefromnj said:
In the review it says that the Tenda MW6 supports ethernet backhaul. In the list of cons it says it does not. Does anyone know which is correct? Thanks
My error. Ethernet backhaul is supported. I've corrected the review.

For the 5GHz results, I always wonder how some devices are able to break away from the pack and maintain a high throughput even with a weaker signal. Are they configured to simply force a higher PHY rate and balance retransmissions with overall throughput as long as the data is not corrupt, or is there something more going on?


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: TP-Link EAP225v3 AC1350 Wireless MU-MIMO Gigabit Ceiling Mount Access Point Reviewed

The new version of TP-Link's inexpensive AC access point has a lot to like.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Small (but important?) correction: the Features table on page 1 lists "No" next to MU-MIMO.

Internet Man said:
Small (but important?) correction: the Features table on page 1 lists "No" next to MU-MIMO.
Thanks for the catch. Fixed.

Hardware design looks better, though still electrolytics.

Bandsteering but no auto-channel management? And strange still no DFS.

Do these APs support tagged management VLAN? If so, that's a convenient advantage over Ubiquiti Unifi APs, who only support untagged.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: D-Link DIR-882 AC2600 MU-MIMO Wi-Fi Router Reviewed

D-Link's DIR-882 AC2600 MU-MIMO Wi-Fi Router is a surprisingly good router for the money.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
It is a very interesting option but it's a D-Link and with the security problems...

TheManFromUncle said:
the security problems...
Please explain so we know specifically what you are referring to.

The current known security issues have already been addressed...


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: What's Missing From Your Wi-Fi 6 Router? OFDMA

OFDMA, a key Wi-Fi 6 feature, is still mostly absent from consumer routers and makers are not telling us.

Continue reading on SmallNetBuilder...

[Assistant]
Hell, even Apple released the AX-enabled iPhone 6 in a relatively timely manner, although about a year behind Samsung.
iPhone 6 ?

ColinTaylor said:
iPhone 6 ?
D'oh. iphone 11. Fixed. Thanks for the catch.

@thiggins, great article! Thank you for still giving us this level of reporting on our consumer routers.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: First Peek At Wi-Fi 6: ASUS RT-AX88U & NETGEAR RAX80

Our first look at the performance of NETGEAR's RAX80 and ASUS' RT-AX88U shows little benefit functioning as AC routers.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Great review. So it seems the R7800 is your pick of the bunch.

But try as I might, I could not get the Lenovo to recognize the card, even with it upgraded to Windows 10 and with the latest Intel drivers.

Quite likely that Lenovo is using a whitelist card list in the BIOS, so only pre-approved cards will be supported by the laptop. A few manufacturers do that unfortunately.

idesign said:
Great review. So it seems the R7800 is your pick of the bunch.
There is no "pick" at this time other than my recommendation to not buy any draft 11ax product right now.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: 2x2 AC Access Point Roundup

Our roundup of 2x2 802.11ac access points shows top performance doesn't have to cost a lot.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
As someone looking to upgrade from an N router (used as AP only) to AC I'm wondering if an access point like one of these would serve well as opposed to purchasing a router to only use as an AP? Currently I have my router on the main floor. Coverage in basement and main floor is excellent. The 2nd floor coverage is very good but a little weak on the opposite side of the house as router. Will one of these equal the range and throughput as an actual router set up as an AP?

That's what I'm doing at my house. I use an old Linksys E3000 as the router with all of the wireless turned off and an AC-Lite as the AP. The router was placed pretty close to the cable modem in an ok but less than ideal spot for wifi coverage but with the AP having POE I was able to place it at the top of the staircase that goes down to the basement so it covers the whole house very effectively.

Pulling the cable required some drilling and fishing and working in the attic but it was worth the effort.

At one time I was going to go the AP route, and even ordered 3 AC-HD's. Then I was like you know what, the orbi does fine, so i sent them back. Maybe one day, I will go AP's but I just don't see the need in my house. Not to mention my wife was a tad upset when she saw how much they were....


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi Roaming Secrets Revealed - Part 4

In our latest exploration of Wi-Fi Roaming, we take a look at the roaming behavior of five Wi-Fi systems.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
I wonder, for the disassociate events, can't the AP simply ignore connection requests for a limited time after attempting to move a client device? For example, if it forces a device to disconnect from AP 1, in an attempt to get it to connect to AP2, can it perform the disconnect and just prevent it from connecting back, leaving AP2 to be the only choice?

Also on the 802.11v side of things, Why can't device makers issue a driver update that makes it so that actually considers the request frames sent by the AP? It just seems weird that we still have wireless clients that can clearly see that there is a stronger AP available, but it will choose to fight against attempts of the weaker AP to get the client to move to the stronger AP.

With all of the challenges wireless communications face, it seems strange that roaming is such a long running issue, it is almost like dealing with someone who is complaining that their hand it hot, and continues to do so while others around them shouts at the person to remove his or her hand from the stove, but the person ignores and continues to complain.

I am glad I never bothered with band steering. Sounds like it doesn't work. I am pretty happy with 2.4GHz turned off and just running 5GHz wireless.

Thanks, this is awesome!
On that note, my router died and I had to go buy one urgently. Ended up with a Netgear X10.
It does seem to band steer. When I go to a 5GHz low SS location my iPhone goes to the 2.4 band and when I walk back it moves over to 5GHz. Haven't traced it.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: NETGEAR Orbi Reviewed

NETGEAR's Orbi Wi-Fi System brings a new and effective approach to curing your Wi-Fi woes.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Thanks for the review. I think I may get one of these Orbi's soon.

thiggins said:
NETGEAR's Orbi Wi-Fi System brings an effective curing your Wi-Fi woes.

I am using this one phenq where to buy covers my whole house (BTW, it's a big house). The best feature that I like is that I can create a separate and secure guest network for my guests.

thiggins said:
brings a new and effective approach to curing your Wi-Fi woes.

Click to expand...

it looks good? Does it provide a good spped becauseI can't work with slow speed.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Mesh Wi-Fi Mashup

What happens to throughput when you start bouncing signals around a mesh Wi-Fi network? We compared multi-hop performance for eero, Luma, Amplifi and Amplifi HD to find out.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Nice write up - question however, was there any attempt to see if this would mesh between different vendors?

Tim, will you be adding the Netgear Orbi to these results? I'd like to see how it compares to the others.

interesting review and i had to read it a few times to understand the meat and gravy , im actually amazed how mesh is so buzzed atm as it aint really that much of a benefit

hifiguy said:
will you be adding the Netgear Orbi to these results? I'd like to see how it compares to the others.

the orbi isnt mesh yet its just star topology , it is suggested it will actually be mesh in the future but thats TBA

Dave in NM said:
When does Asus' solution come out?

not even on the horizon yet as far as i know


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: 5 Things To Know Before You Buy A Draft 11ax Router

The first draft 11ax routers are almost here. Take a little time to know what you might be buying into.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Great article! Just shows those shrewd with their money (and reliability) should stick to existing standards. I learnt back with the draft N standard not to invest in draft standards again and whilst it may not be exactly the same now, there is next to no reason currently for me to spend anything more than a value for money AC router.

good post - and folks know I have a beef with 2.4Ghz and the "extended" standards in any event...

Achieving the maximum 1148 Mbps 2.4 GHz rate requires a device support 1024 QAM modulation, 40 MHz bandwidth and four streams, as shown in the table below

Click to expand...

Getting 40MHz channels in most places these days is a challenge - and getting the "extended" modulation rates like 256QAM/1024QAM is almost impossible - even if one get's a "turbo QAM" connection as some vendors suggest, it usually falls back to 64QAM and 20MHz at the end of the day...

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/vht-in-2-4ghz-ism-band-it-can-happen-proof-attached.48539/

802.11n is probably the end of days for 2.4GHz - not that it's bad, but legacy is what it is...

I think if you change over to 5GHz AC only without 2.4GHz you will be ahead of the game rather than running a draft 802.11ax Router. But that means setting up multiple APs.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Synology RT2600ac Router Reviewed

Synology's RT2600ac Router shows the company is serious about pursuing the Wi-Fi router market.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
R7800 has a dual-core (IPQ8065) 1.7 GHz processor NOT a quad-core 1.7 GHz

pege63 said:
R7800 has a dual-core 1.7 GHz processor NOT a quad-core 1.7 GHz
From https://www.qualcomm.com/products/ipq8065
The IPQ8065 is a quad-core network processor designed to bring unprecedented performance and power efficiency to Wi-Fi routers and gateways. It combines a powerful, dual-core Qualcomm® Krait™ CPU (1.7 GHz) for control plane and applications, with a dual-core 800 MHz Network Subsystem (NSS) to accelerate packet processing.

I am confused here i cant see anything about the Qualcomm® Krait™ CPU?

But you have right
IPQ8065 ARMv7-A
Quad Core 1.7 GHz 2x Krait 300
+ 2x NSS @800MHz


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Linksys Velop Dual-Band Intelligent Mesh WiFi System Reviewed

Linksys' takes a run at cheaper version of its Velop Mesh Wi-Fi System and comes up too short.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Hmm, I guess if a user used Ethernet backhaul with these, it would take away a lot of the performance issues. But I don't know if there would still be a more compelling offering in that price range.

Can anybody confirm that it's possible to connect legacy WEP-only client devices to Velop? Specifically for Nintendo DS games.

gingerbeardman said:
Can anybody confirm that it's possible to connect legacy WEP-only client devices to Velop? Specifically for Nintendo DS games.
If you could do this, which I doubt Velop or any mesh Wi-Fi system allows, your throughput would be limited to 802.11g rates in 2.4 GHz, i.e. 54 Mbps. Accessing N or AC requires supporting at least TKIP.

Not to mention that WEP keys are easily cracked.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi Roaming Secrets Revealed - Part 3

In the last part of our Wi-Fi Roaming exploration, we look at Windows and Android roams.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
anecdotally the behavior of the Galaxy Tab A seems to match the roaming experience of my Galaxy S8... it just doesn't like to roam until connection is nearly or completely lost.

There are a variety of android apps that try to "fix" this behavior by specifying an RSSI level to trigger roaming to another SSID, or just to switch to a different channel in the same SSID.

In the end, the conclusion we can draw is that WiFi roaming (mesh) products in the market are just scam based on unreliable hacks to WiFi standards, hacks that mostly are not supported by clients.

We will only have real WiFi roaming (mesh) after having a industry wide standard, when it is widely supported by client and access point hardware. Everything else is just simply gimmicks that won’t really give the expected results to users.

Don’t forget you need two to start a dance. If one doesn’t want, there won’t be a ball. And one of the dancers in this ball are the clients who seem to not willing dance until the definitive rules are set out.

Caveat Emptor.

abetancort said:
In the end, the conclusion we can draw is that WiFi roaming (mesh) products in the market are just scam based on unreliable hacks to WiFi standards, hacks that mostly are not supported by clients.

We will only have real WiFi roaming (mesh) after having a industry wide standard, when it is widely supported by client and access point hardware. Everything else is just simply gimmicks that won’t really give the expected results to users.

Don’t forget you need two to start a dance. If one doesn’t want, there won’t be a ball. And one of the dancers in this ball are the clients who seem to not willing dance until the definitive rules are set out.

Caveat Emptor.
Click to expand...
I would not say it is a scam. You are seeing the difficulty of trying to add significant new functions to a standard that was never designed with them in mind.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: ASUS Blue Cave AC2600 Dual-Band Wireless Router Reviewed

ASUS' Blue Cave Dual Band AC2600 Wireless Router doesn't do much to promote Intel's reputation as a Wi-Fi router technology supplier.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Better performance since re-test, but maybe the next firmware update will show improvement. Not up to Asus standards. Beautiful design, but not functional. No mu-MIMO marketing badge? or AI-mesh? Maybe watch and wait on this product!

Yes i bought one, worked for about a week. Seemed to work great. Then the entire network completely stopped -- wired and wireless, had to reset, that was on a Friday night. Then 12 hrs later Saturday morning, wolk up was completely dead again. Returned to Amazon after that. Top was warm, bottom was quite hot. Suspect this router doesn't cool properly due to unique design. Went back to ASUS AC1900P, which is a boring choice, but least is a proven design.

thiggins said:
Same chipset. Waaay different firmware with very different feature sets.

Did you get a chance to run this by the Asus folks?

WiFi performance looks decent enough, pretty much similar to every chipset vendor out there.

The routing performance is an anomaly... almost has to be an integration issue, as other vendors on the same chipset are similar to competitive chipsets...


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi System Roundup

We finally have our new Wi-Fi System test process up and running and ran the latest products from NETGEAR, TP-Link and eero through it.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
And I was just about to spring for the Deco 5. Guess I'm not now. Thanks Tim.

hi tim

i assume the rbk50 system that wasnt tested would be at the top of that list , do you not have the rbk50 anymore or why did you choose to leave it out , its not really evedent as to why from the review

pete y testing said:
hi tim

i assume the rbk50 system that wasnt tested would be at the top of that list , do you not have the rbk50 anymore or why did you choose to leave it out , its not really evedent as to why from the review
The review explained it was focusing on new products and retested only GWiFi due to its market share. I will be retesting some of the previously tested products, but not all.
The original Orbi isn't a real priority, since I'm pretty sure it will still end up at the top of the ranking. But it will be retested eventually.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: [Sponsored] Is Cloud-Based Network Management Right for You?

Cloud managed networks aren't just for Enterprises anymore.

Continue reading on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
For us MSPs...(IT guys that take care of SMBs)...centralizing management of our clients is a very important and valuable feature for us. For pretty much ANY of our services. It's important to keep things as centralized as possible for us, have a portal for key important services we manage, such as our RMM tool N-Central (remote monitoring and management), our backup/disaster recovery services (Solarwinds BDR, Datto), Untangle added a console several years ago. About 10 years ago some products came out for network equipment, such as Meraki, OpenMesh, and Ubiquiti.

Having things centralized in a multi-tenant dashboard is important to us because it's quicker and easier to make changes, or just eyeball the status of things. Less time we spend doing something makes things that save time more profitable for MSP clients that pay a fixed monthly price for services. Versus the old fashioned time consuming way of having to log on locally onto each device to make changes.

https://www.zyxel.com/library/assets/solutions/nebula/pdf/nebula-licensing-table.pdf

While their free tier is still limited, it seems less restrictive than other non-cloud systems where some companies will sell a super expensive wireless controller, and then limit you to like 3 APs and then require you to purchase a license to support more APs.

Though one thing I would really like to see is an examination of the total cost of ownership of a non-cloud reliant system as compared to a cloud reliant one where you opt for the paid cloud service in order to get the full functionality, vs a system where you buy a wireless controller and then purchase one of the ripoff licenses in order to support more APs.

Cloud based management would be cool, in case the device can also be managed standalone, e.g. when connection to cloud fails and it should allow to completely disable cloud based management, for security reasons and if the device has no internet access.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Norton Core Router Reviewed

Symantec thinks better security can sell its first Wi-Fi router, the Norton Core.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
thanks for the review time , im not surprised ,(removed) , as with IPS on other manufacturer /models the norton core just kills throughput , surely they cant be happy with those results and why would they even release it with such poor throughput and such poor wifi coverage esp from a 4 x 4 wave 2 ac router

i guess it competition may be the asus blue cave slated some time ago at ces , will have to wait and see how it stacks up

the norton core might have that WAF but without the grunt to keep DAF its just another also ran

pete y testing said:
thanks for the review time , im not surprised , synology couldnt get it right with its 2 previous attempts so its no shock this isnt up to speed , as with IPS on its previous models the norton core just kills throughput , surely they cant be happy with those results and why would they even release it with such poor throughput and such poor wifi coverage esp from a 4 x 4 wave 2 ac router

i guess it competition may be the asus blue cave slated some time ago at ces , will have to wait and see how it stacks up

the norton core might have that WAF but without the grunt to keep DAF its just another also ran
Click to expand...

Sorry, but what does a Symantec product have to do with Synology??

And why would the blue cave from Asus be a competitor, it doesn't have any special security features as far as I've seen. It has some basic Trend Micro software, but so does a bunch of other Asus routers - https://www.asus.com/aiprotection/

TheLostSwede said:
Sorry, but what does a Symantec product have to do with Synology??

lol soz it was late , my apologies , but tim is right in its just another try hard in a market over flowing with great routers already

TheLostSwede said:
And why would the blue cave from Asus be a competitor, it doesn't have any special security features as far as I've seen.

as far as i know it doesnt have the bog standard aiprotect , it has the newer upgrade the adresses IoT , just like the lyra and brt-ac828 currently have

the norton core security features look about the same , the big thing with asus is you dont have to pay for that


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: TP-Link Deco M9 Plus AC2200 Smart Home Mesh Wi-Fi System Reviewed

TP-Link's Deco M9 Plus brings lots of features and a third radio to the Wi-Fi mesh system party.

Continue reading...

[Assistant]
Tim, I think you've mixed up the RAM and eMMC in this device, as it's no way it has 4GB of RAM.

4GB would be a decent amount of RAM to have on a router, though for the high end units, they really should copy some phone makers and go with 8GB of RAM, and if possible, but stick with around 4-8GB of NAND, then allow users to load them with custom applications for whatever they need.

Razor512 said:
4GB would be a decent amount of RAM to have on a router, though for the high end units, they really should copy some phone makers and go with 8GB of RAM, and if possible, but stick with around 4-8GB of NAND, then allow users to load them with custom applications for whatever they need.

It'd be way too expensive with the current memory pricing. DRAM has been silly expensive for the past three years and haven't shown any signs to come down. Flash prices have at least come down a bit in price and I'm actually surprised to see 4GB of eMMC, as it's generally more expensive these days than 8GB, due to production coming to a close of 4GB eMMC.

On a side note, most SoCs have a hard upper limit with regards to how much RAM they support and this is often a lot less than you'd expect. MTK as an example has limited some of theyt router SoCs to 512MB or 1GB, even though it's not a CPU architecture limit.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Linksys EA8300 Max-Stream AC2200 Tri-Band Wi-Fi Router Reviewed

Linksys' EA8300 Max-Stream AC2200 Tri-Band Wi-Fi Router is a less expensive two-stream, tri-band router that still delivers surprisingly good Wi-Fi performance.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
"Because all Wi-Fi systems to date are based on Qualcomm chipsets."

Tenda spoiled the ease of that statement! Tenda Nova Whole Home Mesh WiFi System (Realtek-based) is out now.

http://www.tendaus.com/True-Mesh_Whole_Home_WiFi_System.htm

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076JLJVTG/?tag=snbforums-20

This is on offer for less than £50 at ebuyer. Will it work as a repeater with one of the two 5ghz for backhaul?

Can I use 1 5 band as wireless bridge and then use 2.4 and another 5 band as a repeater? Thanks


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Open Mesh OM5P-AC Dual Band 1.17 Gbps Access Point Reviewed

Open Mesh's OM5P-AC is not the way to go for an inexpensive AC1200 access point.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
why the switch chip named as Atheros AR8033 anymore, shouldnt it be QCA ?

AR is Atheros. All are manufactured by Qualcomm now.

Fun article, big thanks to Jim for writing this up.

I installed 8 of these AP's in a very large home last year but I never got to perform as much testing as I wanted to. The client hasn't had any complaints but I'm surprised to see such poor 2.4ghz performance. I designed the network for 5ghz so it doesn't matter much (and is probably why there haven't been any complaints) but I'm trying to confirm the maximum single STA throughput on 2.4ghz that Jim saw was only 5.7mbps?? That seems hard to believe even for a cheap little AP like the OM5P-AC. If that's the speed at location D, what was the throughput at location A (worst location)?

I'm interested to know if Jim was using OpenMesh's recommended settings for maximum performance since options like DPI and DNS intercept add additional overhead that affect performance of their cheaper AP's disproportionately.

I'd also like to know if Jim has access to MetaGeek's spectrum analyzer to see what the 2.4ghz spectrum baseline looked like at the time of the testing. Is this testing being done in an urban/suburban house or a rural home?

Lastly, I'm confused by some of the graphics in the article. The article mentions that the single STA best location (location D) performance on 2.4ghz is 5.7mbps yet the stacked throughput comparison chart seems to show location D at somewhere around 25mbps. It seems to me like 5.7mbps would make sense for the location A (worst location). See graphics below.

Single STA Throughput:

Single STA Stacked Throughput:


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi Roaming Secrets Revealed

Ever wonder what happens behind the scenes when Wi-Fi devices roam, or more likely don't? We'll show you why the "seamless" roaming Wi-Fi gear makers promise is still as elusive as a Yeti.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
thiggins said:
Ever wonder what happens behind the scenes when Wi-Fi devices roam, or more likely don't? We'll show you why the "seamless" roaming Wi-Fi gear makers promise is still as elusive as a Yeti.

Click to expand...

Chipping away at the marketing hype...

Thanks, Tim.

Looks like you may have found that the infrastructure’s radio resource management plays a huge role in the process of STA to AP roaming.

Is it possible to somehow force a client to a different AP in a way that is transparent or barely noticeable to the client?

For example, implement some way for the APs to share data relating to the connection state of each client, and then arrange a hand off where 1 PS tells the other, that a specific client is closer to me than it is to you, so send me the data relating to the connection, and i will handle the next frame that the client sends.

Usually with most client devices, a complete loss of connectivity for a few milliseconds, will not cause the client to lose the connection, thus they have some method of maintaining of being able to resume a previous connection.

If there were some kind of brute force method of having access points being able to forcibly move a client to a different AP without it having to go through the entire association process again.

In testing a wide range of smartphones, it is a real mixed bag in terms of how roaming is handled, and it doesn't seem like device makers are really interested in putting much attention towards roaming, thus it seems best for router makers to come up with some workaround.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: ASUS ROG Rapture GT-AC5300 Wireless-AC5300 Tri-Band Gaming Router Reviewed

ASUS' GT-AC5300 Wireless-AC5300 Tri-Band Gigabit Router is a slightly beefed-up version of its RT-AC5300 predecessor.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
thiggins said:
Test results and ranking are up. Review to follow shortly.

That's a pretty significant improvement over the RT and the R7000. Can't wait to read the review.

thiggins said:
Test results and ranking are up. Review to follow shortly.

Whoa, you're showing USB write speeds wayyyy faster than I'm seeing. I've only gotten 15MB/s max. How did you test those?

edit: Wait, on the summary page it says Mb/s but the USB results pages say MB/s.. Which is it?

ratbuddy said:
Wait, on the summary page it says Mb/s but the USB results pages say MB/s.. Which is it?

Also, this quote from the review seems strange: "There is obviously still something wrong with the GT-AC5300's USB 3.0 connection, given it yielded only 31 MB/s write and 34 MB/s read. But whatever's wrong with the RT has been solved with the GT, since it produces much higher throughput."

Should it read "...still something wrong with the RT-AC5300's USB"?


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: TP Link Archer C2600 Reviewed

hi SNB will there be any review on TP Link Archer C2600 coming soon? Interested in this product but would like to know it's performance before buying. Thanks.

[Assistant]
Thanks for getting the review done.

It seems strange that they would only use 32 MB of flash relative to the competitors 128 MB. Is that spec verified?

I find it odd they are making such different options between their new routers in the firmware. You'd think that most of those features would be generic across their products as well (like port access control, the UPnP/DLNA server).

TP-LINK verified the RAM and flash capacities.

Functional differences are due to underlying differences in the base firmware provided by QCA and Broadcom.

thiggins said:
TP-LINK verified the RAM and flash capacities.

Well, that's an slightly odd choice by them then. For this cost of the router, I can't image it would cost that much more to add a little extra flash.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi Roaming Secrets Revealed - Part 2

In Part 2 of our Wi-Fi Roaming exploration, we show how to tell if your devices support 802.11k,v or r.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
From the looks of at least 802.11k, it doesn't seem like it would cause any compatibility issues, I wonder why more routers and access points don't make use of it?
For example, Netgear seems to disable it by default on their routers.

Razor512 said:
For example, Netgear seems to disable it by default on their routers.
How do you know that?

Basically on their routers from the past few years, in both the debug page and in the nvram, the 11k option is set to 0 while for their access points/ extenders, it is often set to 1 (enabled).

If a user is using buying one of their range extender products, then it seems like they would be using the product in conjunction with their main wireless router in order to expand the overall WiFi coverage of their home.

From the way 802.11k seems to work, it looks like the client needs to be connected to that AP in order to see that data, thus it seems like it would be beneficial to have it enabled on both the wireless router and the extender.

https://imgur.com/a/wh5wVvh (Image of the typical debug page on their routers, and the typical one on their extenders)


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: ASUS Lyra Home Wi-Fi System Reviewed

ASUS' Lyra is late to market, with disappointing performance.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
so im surprised to see no one has posted in this tread and i wonder why , perhaps some are scared to object to your conclusions

yes the lyra has taken some time to come to market but im guessing asus has lots of tongs in the fire and the lyra is just one with blue cave , brt-ac828 , rt-ac86u etc etc

TBH from previous posts from b4 this review was posted your not happy with asus atm and what you call public beta testing

im also not sure why you chose to compare the eero 2 to the lyra as the eero 2 has had a year of erro 1 and then V 2 to get it close to being right , so i dont see any subjectivity in comparing something thats been in the wild for a year and a second version to something new to the wild

its clear you had issues with both fw and app , but didnt you have the same with v1 of erro and most of the other mesh systems

its also clear that shows in your comments from prob the first words of the review that you started with a negative attitude to the lyra

the lyra may not be perfect and may need time in the wild to improve as all of these mesh/dw systems have needed , seems your expectations on the lyra may be more than should be expected of a new to wild device

not trying to pump up the lyra here but more to just clear the air and suggest perhaps in this case the expectations may over ride the logic of what the lyra is and what stage it is

---------------------

just a fyi the orbi which you claim is on top of the heap is suffering for many users with disconnections , drop outs and sat issues all of which your review doesnt seem to reflect

i would suggest you maybe not jump on these devices the day they are released and perhaps allow some time in the wild b4 testing to allow for initial fw improvements

just my 2 cents

pete

pete y testing said:
i would suggest you maybe not jump on these devices the day they are released and perhaps allow some time in the wild b4 testing to allow for initial fw
If a product is good enough to ship to start generating revenue, it's good enough to review.

ASUS sent the product for review. I delayed the review, pending new firmware that was supposed to ship a week ago Monday. I was then told the app also needed to be updated, which would take more time. I decided to move forward with the review.

My conclusions are based on data, Pete. Where is yours?

thiggins said:
My conclusions are based on data, Pete. Where is yours?

gimme a week and i will have the lyra myself and then will comment on its performance , but i dont crap on tested devices b4 i post the review as its called subjective reviewing , its clear you have an issue with asus and its out to wild policy which i have said b4 yes it should be a policy of every manufacture to run some sort of in house beta testing with volunteers and i have suggested so to most of them, that being said it is your review and your conclusion and i respect you for posting it but i will call a tad of unfairness where it needs to be called and comparing the eero2 to the just released lyra seems a bit one sided

again just my 2 cents

pete


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: ZyXEL AC2200 MU-MIMO Dual-Band Wireless Gigabit Router Reviewed

ZyXEL's AC2200 MU-MIMO Dual-Band Wireless Gigabit Router is a one-of-a-kind MU-MIMO router, and not in a good way.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Wait a minute... Someone decided in 2016 to release a new router based on the Quantenna QSR1000, despite the fact that every other products based on that chipset has proven to be a failure? I'm confused...

Even i said the quantenna internal design was terrible. Who puts wifi and one of the LAN ports on the same 1Gb/s interface?

RMerlin said:
Wait a minute... Someone decided in 2016 to release a new router based on the Quantenna QSR1000, despite the fact that every other products based on that chipset has proven to be a failure? I'm confused...

Odd to see... but interesting that it's shipping with MU-MIMO firmware... obviously interoperability is going to be key for them.

Quantenna has taken a lot of flak in the consumer space - but at the same time, they've done pretty well in vertical applications.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Google WiFi Reviewed

Google Wifi is a more affordable way to see if mesh Wi-Fi is for you.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Starting the general thread, as this is a topic that many may be interested in...

I'll share a good comment from Google on Wave 2 first... Google WiFi, like On-Hub, is not a BHR, it's something very different

Features such as 4x4 data streams, MU-MIMO, 160 MHz channels, and 1024QAM, while costly to produce, aren’t compatible with the majority of today’s devices. Paying for unneeded technologies simply doesn’t make sense.
The Google WiFi is a continuation of the On-Hub family, and is based on ChromeOS - see below;

Supposedly there is a lot of WiFi alliance 11ac Wave 2 spec, but not clear if this also includes MU or not... if the chipset supports MU - I'll probably be first in line, not as an AP, but to make this a MU packet capture device...

[edit - no MU here, at least not right now - but there's other interesting stuff under the hood]

Should note that all Google WiFi devices - even the Legacy On-Hubs, play well together.

See the review on the main site for details related to hardware, software, and performance - both standalone as well as mesh.

I picked up a 3-pack on Saturday and returned it on Sunday.

Pros
- setup via iPhone app was very easy
- all 3 nodes connected without any issue
- full coverage over 2800 sq ft home with primary located in center of house 2nd floor

Cons
- could not set WAN IP as they claim you can
- bridge mode not available when in mesh mode
- poor telephone support

I spend over an our explaining to Google all of their short comings. But their response was "well that's how it works". Really? Its clear to me that their software is just a spinoff of the OnHub product with inclusions for mesh networking.

The biggest fail for me is the bridge mode. Why you would only allow this with just the primary connected and not in mesh mode? In my case, having FiOS w/TV service, I alway run in bridge mode. I did like their appearance when placed in any of the rooms I had.

Just not ready for prime time IMHO

whsbuss said:
I spend over an our explaining to Google all of their short comings. But their response was "well that's how it works". Really?
What would you expect a tech support person's response to a list of missing features to be? That's not what they are there for.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: How We Test: SmallNetBuilder's Wireless Testbed - Revision 10

The new SmallNetBuilder wireless testbed will handle both single point and distributed Wi-Fi router testing

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
That test setup looks expensive, how could you afford it?

Octoscope has generously provided the system on loan.

Sounds great That's really nice of them.

When will we see test results with Revision 10. It looks promising.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Ignition Design Labs Portal Reviewed

Ignition Design Lab's Portal has the potential to be a cheaper alternative to NETGEAR's Orbi.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
nice review

i guess the only issue i have with the dfs system is the complicated mix of wireless adapters and what channels they support , in theory adapter should support all the bands but thats not the case and can be problematic as you found out with the test adapter you used

maybe manufactures will need to give regional specific drivers to also accommodate the dfs

i have a fritzbox usb adapter here that support all the dfs channels and the lower band but doesnt support the higher 5 gig bands thanks to its euro driver set limitations

Odd choice of processor, an old single core MIPS 74Kc at 750MHz. It wasn't even designed for 4x4 5GHz, not even for router use, as instead the target market was for 2x2 range extenders or hot spots.

TheLostSwede said:
Odd choice of processor, an old single core MIPS 74Kc at 750MHz. It wasn't even designed for 4x4 5GHz, not even for router use, as instead the target market was for 2x2 range extenders or hot spots.
I agree on the processor choice. It's likely the reason for the poor 2.4 GHz performance.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Ubiquiti AC Pro and AC Lite Access Points Reviewed

We finally take a look at Ubiquiti's cheap AC access points.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Great review.

The comparison to Orbi devices seems odd though since each Unifi AP is cheaper and they have a wired backhaul that kind of puts it in another use category than an Orbi/Satellite.

At the very least wouldn't it be more in line with real world usage to test 3 APs with wired backhaul versus say the Orbi with one satellite? I mean it seems the advantage for unifi APs would be that they don't have to rely on wireless backhaul so you can put them where coverage necessities would dictate, negating construction materials and even the drop off to much extent.

Thought that would get a mention, if they weren't going to be compared to other APs.

Not a knock on the review, just random thoughts I had when reading it. Enjoyed the review.

I also thought it was odd that this review says you can't manage UniFi switches or phones with the controller. That's actually completely wrong. Personally, I have a switch adopted to my UniFi controller, and the page for the UVP mentions the controller software...

While the internal photos were informative, the comparison between UAP-AC (old design from when 802.11ac was really new) and UAP-AC-PRO was also strange. The UAP-AC-PRO has fewer components because it is a newer, better, and more efficient integrated design rather than it just being a cheaper design (though this is a nice side effect).

To be honest im not surprised in the wifi results as ( and i think this is what ppl are not seeing ) we are used to seeing router testing and big honking routers and not AP's

AP's are not designed to be the biggest baddest wifi on the block , they are designed to work in multiples and so each one doesnt need to be maxed out , even the dws and mesh systems cant really be compared

it is a fact AP's are a class on their own and can and should only ever be compared with other ap's

however i would still recommend unifi stuff if ppl have structured ethernet and choose to use 2 or more ap's as thats exactly what they are designed for

dws and mesh systems are designed for those primarily dont have structured wifi and thats their place

"BHR" big honking routers are different again as they always transmit from a single location and push the wifi power envelope and beam forming algorithms to achieve what they do

this is why i suggest that ap's should be a separate category and tested and compared as such

pete


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Sponsored: Wi-Fi Mesh System Secrets

Here's how to get the most out of your whole home mesh WiFi system.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
With the backhaul being so important, why aren't these device makers pushing more for users to use wired backhauls wherever possible? Even if they can't have every single unit wired, wouldn't it be at least better to have even 1 of the hops take place over a wired backhaul?

Because if people had Ethernet where they needed it they wouldn't need mesh WiFi invthr first place.

Looking forward, 802.11ax will have up t0 8 spacial streams. Due to power, heat, and space constraints it is unlikely that many client devices will use more than 2 or 3 streams in the near future. In theory, that will allow AP's (and mesh points) to have 5 or 6 streams for backhaul.

I am not holding my breath for usable products at a reasonable price point.... but it seems to be one way the industry is looking.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Linksys EA9500 Max-Stream AC5400 MU-MIMO Gigabit Router Reviewed

Linksys' EA9500 Max-Stream AC5400 MU-MIMO Gigabit Router provides our first look at how Broadcom MU-MIMO performs.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Thanks for posting this one.

Would be nice to see a comparison between the EA8500 (QCA based 4*4:4) vs the EA9500 (BRCM based 4*4:4) side by side - esp with regards to MU support. Would be neat to see things on the EA8500 on the new test bench.

Since Linksys shares the board support package all their platforms, it would be a good comparo across different chipset vendors.

Any thoughts here...

BTW - that thing is heat sinked like crazy - big aluminum plate for the radios topside, the SOC heatsink with the big alloy block and a metal radiator shield to boot, and the plate on the bottom side. Must be weighty...

The other concern - and @thiggins brought this up on the review - is the 256MB RAM...

There's a reason why Linksys bumped the memory on the WRT1900acV2/ACS to 512MB - it's the NAT/SPI tables, along with the QoS queues... this is also why the other vendors have gone with 512MB of memory in this class.

With three radios and 8 wired ports, more memory is better - this could cause the EA9500 to either reject new clients, or outright crash if the number of clients gets high enough.

Again, probably less said about WRT1900, the better perhaps - but a WRT2600 could have been a possibility if they didn't cost reduce and put the WiFi chips on the mainboard (v1 had a daughter board, and it would have been a simple exercise to change out the wifi chips to QCA or Broadcom if Marvell couldn't deliver a timely MU solution)

Oh well...

sfx2000 said:
The other concern - and @thiggins brought this up on the review - is the 256MB RAM...

i was wondering if it was a typo , as i too see this as a concern and whats with smart connect only on 5 gig's ?


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: "How Fast Can Your Wi-Fi Go?" Article

Sorry, couldn't find a discussion thread on this article:

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basics/32175-how-fast-can-your-wi-fi-go

My router needs replacing and I thought, to go with the new router, I'd get a new Intel AC 9260 wireless adapter for my Dell laptop, which claims up to 1733 Mbps:

https://ark.intel.com/products/99445/Intel-Wireless-AC-9260

Now I'm assuming that this is on the 5GHz band and they don't mention the 2.4GHz band but according to the article, if it's 600Mbps the device is AC2350 and will only get 1733 link rate with an AC2350 router (600+1733) but not an AC2600 router (800+1733).

So I get why an AC2350 (600+1733) client won't link at 1733 with, say, an AC3200 router (600+1300+1300) but why not with an AC2600 router (800+1733)? What am I missing?

[Assistant]
This is why we abandoned the Wi-Fi "class" system.
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33077-goodbye-to-wi-fi-router-classes

The Intel spec says it's a 2x2 adapter. It also says it supports 160 MHz bandwidth. The 160 MHz bandwidth part is how they can artificially inflate the spec.

The maximum you will see from most routers, which do not support 160 MHz bandwidth, is 300 Mbps in 2.4 GHz and 867 in 5 GHz.

thiggins said:
This is why we abandoned the Wi-Fi "class" system.
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33077-goodbye-to-wi-fi-router-classes

The Intel spec says it's a 2x2 adapter. It also says it supports 160 MHz bandwidth. The 160 MHz bandwidth part is how they can artificially inflate the spec.

The maximum you will see from most routers, which do not support 160 MHz bandwidth, is 300 Mbps in 2.4 GHz and 867 in 5 GHz.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Having pored over your website, the "How to buy a router" and "Router Ranker", I was thinking of getting a Netgear R7800, which does support 160MHz but, according to the "How fast can your wifi go" article, if the Intel 9260 has a max 2.4 GHz speed of 600MHz it will only get 1733Mbps with a 600+1300 router; with a 800+1300 router the max 5GHz link rate will only be 1300Mbps. This was the bit I don't quite understand.

andykn said:
Thanks for the reply. Having pored over your website, the "How to buy a router" and "Router Ranker", I was thinking of getting a Netgear R7800, which does support 160MHz but, according to the "How fast can your wifi go" article, if the Intel 9260 has a max 2.4 GHz speed of 600MHz it will only get 1733Mbps with a 600+1300 router; with a 800+1300 router the max 5GHz link rate will only be 1300Mbps. This was the bit I don't quite understand.
Click to expand...
The article was last updated in 2015 and SNB has since abandoned the Wi-Fi class system that the article seeks to explain. Non-standard features like 160MHz bandwidth and 1024-QAM have severely muddied the waters since that article was last updated.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: SPONSORED: Solving the Wi-Fi Upgrade Dilemma: Router, Extender or Wi-Fi System

Router, Extender or Wi-Fi System? Here's how to choose.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Gigabit ISP? What's that? Fiber? hahaha, must be dream land.
Heck, I'm in Silicon Valley and the highest I ever got is like 128megabits down. The WIFI industry wants us to buy new WIFI AP/router, then tell ISP to offer gigabit internet . Otherwise, last year gigabit WIFI router or the year before WIFI is good enough. What lacking is reliable in WIFI access point. Smallnet should do more test on how reliable some of the WIFI access point.

Interesting 10GbE discussion but OT. I've moved it to its own thread

What's the best way to handle wifi with concrete walls? I have ethernet ports throughout the apt but need to deliver wifi coverage too. I'd like to use wireless APs that are plugged into the ethernet ports which get their IP from the main router.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Zyxel Multy X AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System Reviewed

Zyxel' Multy X AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System is unlikely to put a dent in Orbi sales.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
I think it might be an interesting product. A little bit put-off by the 2.4 GHz performance though...
But reading the amount of threads/posts over at Netgear Orbi forum with people experiencing dropouts and other problems, with no sign of Netgear recognizing it, is more serious...

I own and have extensively used both of these products. The Orbi may win in lab tests, and it is a brilliant performer when it works, but those don't mean much in the real world if it just doesn't work as it should and isn't reliable. The Orbi (RBK50) was the first mesh system I tried, took it back due to major stability issues, including regularly losing internet and satellites constantly losing sync. I probably reset it 30 times in the first day I owned it, it was that bad. Replaced it with an RBK43 system which was not a whole lot better, and ended up calling support. Turned out I even had to leave the default SSID in place for it to remain somewhat stable, and even that didn't stave off the satellite drops for long. I tried an RBR50 router with two RBS40 and an RBW30 satellite, same issues. I still have several pieces of Orbis i don't use.

I do agree that the Orbi has a better 5 GHz client connection, but the Multy seems to have a more stable backhaul connection as my satellite has never dropped after weeks of ownership. The computers I use most often are connected to the satellite via ethernet and I get my my full paid internet speeds all the time and a 400-450 mb/s backhaul connection.

I now use the Multy X system, and while it is far from perfect, it is leaps and bounds better than the Orbi from a stability standpoint. I did have some issues with Multy (turned out to be Google Chromecast issues) and reached out to their support, and the problems appear to be resolved as Google released a fix. It's also easier to control/reboot remotely via the app when I am traveling, and (unlike the Orbi) I have never not been able to access my Multy through the app while on the road. You can also reboot the Multy satellite independently. Real-world performance feel and speed test numbers in my small house are very close between the two systems, and both easily max out my 300 down/30 up Mb/s internet connection. The Multy units are also interchangeable, unlike Orbi, and each Multy can be used as a router or satellite. I will say that while the Multy's app works very well for setup, it's pretty horrible for all but the most basic functions, and Orbi is much more configurable with its web page, if you can get the config to work right. All in all, I'd take the Multy X any day over Orbi.

Good to hear from someone who actually used both in a real environment.
I've been thinking that maybe the reason Orbi has so many complaints is because so many are sold. That basically all mesh systems has issues being a new technique. But their forum is completely filled with unhappy threads so I doubt it's just due to large volumes sold.
Asus Lyra was another that looked promising, but seems to be even worse than Orbi...
I will consider the Multy. To bad it's not wall/ceiling mountable.
I might go with unifi including USG, switch and 2 AP's, but that's gonna require a lot more work installing Ethernet thru the house...


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Linksys CES 2017 Announcements

Linksys announced two routers, cable modem and MU-MIMO adapter at CES 2017.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
That router looks beastly. They should call it the Dark Knight.

sm00thpapa said:
That router looks beastly. They should call it the Dark Knight.
Didn't ASUS do that with their N66U? Any idea why they didn't keep it?

TheManFromUncle said:
Didn't ASUS do that with their N66U? Any idea why they didn't keep it?

Yeah Asus did call the N66U The Dark Knight.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: How To Buy A Wireless Router - 2018 Edition

Our 2018 guide to choosing a wireless router finds 802.11ax not yet ready to play.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Had a great conversation on one of my recent flights between San Diego and San Jose (based in SAN, I'm up in the Valley these days 2 or three times a month on various projects).

11ax is hard stuff - and my seat mate is working on it directly - helps that I'm a recovering IEEE 802.16e/16m contributor, along with participation in some of the early 11ac/ad stuff during plenary sessions. There's a fair amount of 16m proposals that eventually made their way in a modified form into 11ax.

One of the reasons why the 11ax development is taking a very long time is interoperability concerns - 11ax is one of the largest changes to the 802.11 spec, and everyone wants to make sure it works - not just within a single vendor implementation, but across the board with all vendors. The AX working group leadership is a bit more open than the AC and AD chairs were, so that is causing things to take more time... Nobody in the industry wants a replay of the ugly 11n days with pre-Draft implementations that could not work across vendors. Yes, there's been some ugly things during early 11ax, but not to the level of what happened with 802.20 back in the day.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Open Mesh A40 & A60 Access Points Reviewed

Open Mesh's new access points and free cloud-based management system are an attractive Ubiquiti alternative.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
What does "depending on a cloud service for management" mean exactly?
Will the units continue to function as configured if connectivity to the cloud/internet is lost, or do they cease to function in their entirety (e.g. eero)?

My worry is what they will consider the lifetime of the access point to be?

For example, what if they device that the life of your AP, is 3 years and then kill the cloud access as the product is now end of life?

Is it valid to compare the wireless charts to the router charts with the same test revisions numbers? For example the 5ghz downlink profile for the A40 shows 62 Mbps and the GT-AC5300 shows 240 Mbps. Or is that an invalid comparison since they're different types?


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: D-Link COVR AC3900 Whole Home Wi-Fi System Reviewed

D-Link's Covr is an extender type Wi-Fi System like NETGEAR's Orbi, but takes a different approach.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Ill wait till they add wired backhaul. At that point might pick this up for the full roaming support.

So I picked this up to check it out and guess what....... when I was done configuring the wizard, the wizard said I could also connect the extender by ethernet cable for better performace. After it was in place and working I connected an Ethernet cable to it..... the unit reconfigured it self and started working over Ethernet backhaul. I dont know if it was added in the last (only) update but did speed tests against my lg v20 phone and 300 mbps second internet. went from 160 on wireless backhaul to 200 on wired and switch lights activity lights going crazy. so it works.

I've been using mine in LAN to LAN AP mode with the extender doing extra duty as a video streamer from a wireless bridged to a DISH Joey. Performance is really nice with the COVR system.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Home Mesh Wi-Fi Coming This Summer From eero

Can someone please explain why wireless "mesh" in a large house would be better than simply adding an AP with the same SSID/Password as the wireless router?

I do this and it works perfectly, is simple and inexpensive. I placed the AP where the router's wireless signal was the weakest. The mobile device switches seamlessly between the AP and the router.

Thanks.

[Assistant]
With Wifi's TDLS, we already kinda have the advantages of both setups. TDLS allows 2 clients to form a direct (Wifi Direct/p2p?) connection in an AP setup.

If they pull it off, eero will be better because it is simpler to set up and use. This system is aimed at people who just want to plug something in and have it work with minimum hassle. APs also normally require Ethernet to connect them together.

You are lucky your client switches between the two APs with no problem. Not all devices do.

Nullity: TDLS isn't mesh. It's more like a modern version of Ad-Hoc networks.

thiggins said:
If they pull it off, eero will be better because it is simpler to set up and use. This system is aimed at people who just want to plug something in and have it work with minimum hassle. APs also normally require Ethernet to connect them together.

You are lucky your client switches between the two APs with no problem. Not all devices do.

Nullity: TDLS isn't mesh. It's more like a modern version of Ad-Hoc networks.
Click to expand...

Meh. Same difference.

Are you aware of what niche that Mesh is planned to fill? I see lots of research in academia regarding Mesh technology, but I haven't paid enough attention to see if they have a wireless revolution in the making. Perhaps getting internet to 3rd-world countries or something similar?


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Wi-Fi System Retest: NETGEAR AC3000 Orbi And Linksys Velop

We retested NETGEAR's Orbi and Linksys' Velop and were pleasantly surprised by one of them.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Did you do testing with the latest Velop firmware version 1.1.2.183316?

chadster766 said:
Did you do testing with the latest Velop firmware version 1.1.2.183316?
1.1.2.181801 as stated in review.

I always update before testing. Looks like I just missed the release on 8/24. Testing was completed on 8/23

That's too bad because firmware 1.1.2.181801 was a failure but firmware version 1.1.2.183316 is a success.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Edimax WAP1750 & CAP1200 Pro APs review

Is the fast roaming feature of the Edimax similar to the zero handoff on the Ubiquti devices?

Any chance you could test the AP in controller mode with the AP active to see how much of a hit you take from using that option?

[Assistant]
remixedcat said:
Isn't the amped one a clone of these two exactly?
The Amped what?

If you mean Amped's APR175P, it could be. Don't know for sure without the FCC ID.
http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/apr175p.html

Did the CAP1200 show any directional preference similar to the UAP-AC retest indicated?

Also, for these ceiling mount units, is signal presented usually as a dome or as a sphere in general?

edit: it would also be interesting to know how the performance changed when using the AP both as the controller and an AP.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Goodbye To Wi-Fi Router Classes

The Wi-Fi class system has outlived its usefulness. So we have switched to a new method to categorize these products.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Did Linksys really list the Velop as AC6600 and not change it after realizing the mistake? I could understand a router being listed at AC1900 where while no single device can use both bands, multiple device can connect to the single router and eventually use both bands. but the Velop, are separate devices.

That is like a car company selling 2 cars, each with a 200 horse power engine, and then marketing the 2 car pack as having 400 horsepower. Or think how some TVs use the class system (50 inch class), imagine a box with 2, 25 inch TVs in the box, and having it marketed as a 50 inch class TV.

Razor512 said:
Did Linksys really list the Velop as AC6600 and not change it after realizing the mistake?
This was not a mistake. It is a conscious marketing decision. This is printed on the product box and plainly shown on Amazon.

This is much welcomed! Thank you, this makes much more sense.


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: EnGenius EnMesh Whole Home Wi-Fi System Reviewed

EnGenius' EnMesh Whole Home Wi-Fi System doesn't make a compelling case for buying it.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Thanks for the review!

The flash chip in the FCC photos appears to be a Spansion S25FL256SAIFR0 which is 32MB instead of 16MB. Did production models end up with less flash?

Internet Man said:
The flash chip in the FCC photos appears to be a Spansion S25FL256SAIFR0 which is 32MB instead of 16MB. Did production models end up with less flash?
My error. The FCC photo blurred part of the PN. But the 256 was clear.

It's been corrected. Thanks for the catch!


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Mesh Mashup Redux - NETGEAR's Orbi Checks In

When we ran our mashup tests on NETGEAR's Orbi, the winning product was very clear.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Nice test and kudos for adding this. When I heard of Orbi I was really thinking Netgear was onto something with a dedicated backhaul like that. And they were right
Like Tim states the wining product is indeed very clear.

Yes, not mesh. Just WiFi done right.

(Still wouldn't buy or recommend one though. Just too limiting and narrowly focused, imo).

L&LD said:
Just too limiting and narrowly focused, imo

if used in AP mode with your fav router there are no real limits to the orbi , i have it attached to the asus rt-ac88u and have the wifi turned of on the asus , not cause the 88u is bad , just the orbi router + sat wifi coverage is far better than even the 88u , not as fast throughput wise , but certainly better coverage as i now get my full 100/40M internet speed on any wifi device anywhere in my house and to be honest that i can say i have never had before

pete

i do agree with tim on the fact netgear needs to not call this a mesh system persay , as it stands its a method unused by anyone at this current point in time and im unsure weather netgear needs to do anything with mesh when it comes to the orbi as the results show its far better the way it is


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: Router Or Wi-Fi System: How To Choose

Trying to decide between a router and a Wi-Fi System? This experiment should help you choose wisely.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
thiggins said:
Too many nodes in too small an area also can destabilize your system, causing devices to initiate roaming scans too frequently or cause co-channel interference, eat up airtime and reduce available bandwidth.

Do any of the systems you've tested provide diagnostic tools to help avoid this problem?

Most Wi-Fi Systems have apps that guide node placement. But they do not expose the criteria used for guidance.

an example of that would be the NETGEAR WiFi Analytics

someone put quite some time into the app and how it works but as good as it is it only shows the relative diagnostics for the device its installed on as the devices antenna/s etc play a big part in the detection and readings

the asus lyra has thing with its install app that tells you what the signal strength is but again its using the mobile apps wifi and thus will only reflect what it thinks is a good spot etc

orbi doesnt really have anything to indicate where to put it ether , not sure on the other mesh / dw systems but im guessing they would be about the same

most systems have a light pattern that will indicated ether good / average or bad , but its not accurate enough to be exact

the way i found to get the sweet spot was to do a file transfer over ethernet read/write with the primary router and first node quite close together , once you get the max throughput available then move the first node further away and test again , if you get close to the previous max readings you still within good range and you can move further away and test again

at some point the backhaul throughput will start to drop from the max numbers indicating the sync rate of the node is dropping , so just before this point you will find the so called sweet spot remembering that 5 gig doesnt penetrate all that far so you may find that sweet spot may on be say 40 feet and 1 plaster wall away

---------------------

this issue i have is that once you find that sweet spot for the backhaul you may and will find that you have too much wifi signal overlap from the front haul of the primary router and the node and your client devices will struggle to roam due to this overlap , the solution to this in the past was to turn down the signal transmission of the fronthaul of each device to compensate

unfortunately most manufactures have removed power control from the gui and thus you cant turn it down to fine tune and get the prefect setup where you have great coverage and clients that are happy to roam


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: ASUS RT-AC1900P Dual-band Wireless-AC1900 Gigabit Router Reviewed

ASUS's Best Buy exclusive RT-AC1900P Dual-band Wireless-AC1900 Gigabit Router is not a great leap forward from the RT-AC68U.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
Thanks Tim. Just wondering if the 68P has any interference issues with the USB port.

I was surprised you were not able to verify the cpu speed.

This router certainly has aged well.

I would love a retest but with the R7000 running Asus Merlin

Also surprised they doubled the flash but left the ram alone.

I would think most would prefer 128mb of flash and 512mb of ram over its current 256/256 configuration.

hi tim

seeing as the rt1900 uses the same chipset as in the rt-ac88u and rt-ac5300 at 1.4Ghz im assuming the much faster usb 3 speeds reflect the faster cpu speed , i know you dont test vpn but you would also assume the vpn throughput would also be better compared to the original 68u , if its anything like the 88u gui wise it would feel a bit snappier as well

pete


[System] You are a professional Wi-Fi router support assistant; I will provide forum posts as background material, and you should learn from them while remaining aware that forum content may be incomplete, outdated, or incorrect — when uncertain, explicitly note that you are uncertain and refer the user to official documentation or other authoritative sources for verification.

[User]
Title: How We Test Wi-Fi Systems - Revision 1

Our process for testing Wi-Fi systems handles both mesh and extender type products.

Read on SmallNetBuilder

[Assistant]
The OctoScope PAL link is broken in the article...

This link should work.

https://www.octoscope.com/English/Products/Ordering/octoBox/OB_PAL.html

sfx2000 said:
The OctoScope PAL link is broken in the article...
Thanks. Fixed.

just wondering on how this will work where the nodes communicate with each other as in active antennas , i have seen some of these systems suggesting the OctoScope shouldnt be used as it will effect the node communication with each other