| [ | |
| { | |
| "start": 0.0, | |
| "end": 2.0, | |
| "text": " This is the BBC." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 17.28, | |
| "end": 21.2, | |
| "text": " Hello and welcome to Podcasting House and if you're joining us for the first time," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 21.2, | |
| "end": 26.560000000000002, | |
| "text": " well this is what we do. Every week we suggest to you a podcast we think is well worth your time" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 26.56, | |
| "end": 30.72, | |
| "text": " and then if you agree you can search for it and subscribe and let us know what you think." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 30.72, | |
| "end": 34.8, | |
| "text": " So I'm Rian and I've got Eli with me. Eli what have you been listening to?" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 35.44, | |
| "end": 42.56, | |
| "text": " This is a podcast called Discovery. It's from the BBC World Service and it's a podcast of podcasts" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 42.56, | |
| "end": 47.44, | |
| "text": " in a sense. Sometimes there might be episodes of Brotherford and Fry in there. It's always about" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 47.44, | |
| "end": 51.84, | |
| "text": " science but they also do some of their own original episodes as well. This is one of those" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 51.84, | |
| "end": 59.2, | |
| "text": " original productions and it's about a Mexican amphibian called Axelotl. Have you ever heard of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 59.2, | |
| "end": 65.04, | |
| "text": " them? Oh yeah. I met my, no my husband took me on a date to a restaurant called Axelotl." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 65.04, | |
| "end": 69.28, | |
| "text": " Oh really? Okay I hope they didn't serve them up because they're an endangered species." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 69.28, | |
| "end": 74.32000000000001, | |
| "text": " No but they wear live ones in cases. Really? Well that's the thing that apparently there's" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 74.32000000000001, | |
| "end": 80.4, | |
| "text": " lots of them in captivity and particularly in scientific labs because they're kind of a freak of nature" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 81.36, | |
| "end": 85.2, | |
| "text": " but there are very very few of them out in the wild. Are we getting ahead of this program?" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 85.2, | |
| "end": 90.72, | |
| "text": " A little bit yeah. Mexicans call them Axelotl which kind of seems cooler in a way somehow." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 90.72, | |
| "end": 96.72, | |
| "text": " Anyway you'll hear all that. Yeah I won't get ahead of it but here it is. It's a two-parter." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 96.72, | |
| "end": 100.48, | |
| "text": " We're giving you the first part is called the Aztec Salamander." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 104.96000000000001, | |
| "end": 110.16000000000001, | |
| "text": " You're listening to Discovery from the BBC World Service coming this week from Mexico City" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 110.16, | |
| "end": 116.16, | |
| "text": " and bringing you the story of a remarkable and paradoxical species of animal. I'm Victoria Gill," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 116.16, | |
| "end": 124.64, | |
| "text": " BBC Science correspondent. This boat is taking me to one of the last refuges of the Mexican Axelotl," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 124.64, | |
| "end": 130.88, | |
| "text": " a strange looking salamander barely clinging to existence in its natural habitat but thriving" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 130.96, | |
| "end": 139.92, | |
| "text": " in countless numbers in captivity. I can't think of any other species that has a story like it." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 139.92, | |
| "end": 146.16, | |
| "text": " You name it it is hitting the wild Axelotl so here we have an animal that is well known all around" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 146.16, | |
| "end": 153.2, | |
| "text": " the world in labs and pet shops but in the wild is nearly extinct. The Mexican Axelotl is an amphibian" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 153.2, | |
| "end": 159.6, | |
| "text": " and a true legend. It's fascinated scientists across the world for more than a century." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 159.6, | |
| "end": 164.56, | |
| "text": " We need to protect the species you know it's an amazing species. They have quite amazing" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 164.56, | |
| "end": 170.0, | |
| "text": " powers of regeneration so if they lose a limb they can grow another one. You can regenerate the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 170.0, | |
| "end": 176.48, | |
| "text": " brain you can regenerate the heart, it regenerates spinal cord and you can regenerate the limbs." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 176.48, | |
| "end": 184.16, | |
| "text": " And for the Aztecs it was a god and a health food. It also represents the culture of Mexico," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 184.16, | |
| "end": 191.04, | |
| "text": " the cultural importance that they have. I think if we lose the species we lose for Mexico." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 191.04, | |
| "end": 201.35999999999999, | |
| "text": " A cultural emblematic species. Our boat is gliding deeper into Zotumilco, a suburb of murky" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 201.35999999999999, | |
| "end": 206.96, | |
| "text": " waterways and small neighborhoods in the southeast of Mexico City's Metropolis. I'm on my way to meet" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 206.96, | |
| "end": 212.48, | |
| "text": " the scientists who are trying to save it from extinction in its only natural home. Along the way" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 212.48, | |
| "end": 217.92, | |
| "text": " we pass other colorful boats carrying partying locals escaping the concrete jungle sprawling" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 217.92, | |
| "end": 224.23999999999998, | |
| "text": " away to the north just a kilometer away. The canals here are all that remains of the once great" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 224.23999999999998, | |
| "end": 229.76, | |
| "text": " system of lakes and wetlands from which the city itself rose through reclamation starting 700" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 229.76, | |
| "end": 237.28, | |
| "text": " years ago in Aztec times. The Mexican Axelotl used to live here and only here in huge numbers" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 237.36, | |
| "end": 244.16, | |
| "text": " but now researchers reckon there could be as few as 500 left. But before we get to our first stop" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 244.16, | |
| "end": 249.36, | |
| "text": " here's another strange fact about the Axelotl, Richard Griffiths, an amphibian conservation" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 249.36, | |
| "end": 256.08, | |
| "text": " biologist at the UK's University of Kent. It's unusual in that it is what we call pedomorphic or" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 256.08, | |
| "end": 262.64, | |
| "text": " neotonic and that actually means that it never actually grows up. Like other amphibians it lives" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 262.64, | |
| "end": 269.28, | |
| "text": " in breeds in water and the eggs hatch into a larval form but they never actually transform" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 269.84, | |
| "end": 277.44, | |
| "text": " into a form that lives online. So the Axelotl keeps on growing with its gills and actually can" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 277.44, | |
| "end": 286.24, | |
| "text": " breed as a sort of adult larval form. So it's like a baby amphibian that never actually grows up." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 286.72, | |
| "end": 294.96000000000004, | |
| "text": " So it's an odd creature, a fishy looking salamander with feathery gills on either side of its head," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 295.52, | |
| "end": 301.2, | |
| "text": " gills that frame a face that seems to have a permanent cute smile. My only guaranteed chance" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 301.2, | |
| "end": 306.32, | |
| "text": " of seeing one face to face was its seaback, the centre for biological and aquatic research run by" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 306.32, | |
| "end": 311.92, | |
| "text": " the Metropolitan University of Mexico right on the banks of Sotchimilco's main canal. My guide" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 311.92, | |
| "end": 319.28000000000003, | |
| "text": " was researcher and Axelotl vet Erika Serving. Right now it's very hard to find them in the habitat," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 319.28000000000003, | |
| "end": 325.44, | |
| "text": " you know they are just a few actually lots right there. For wealth here in the laboratory we had a" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 325.44, | |
| "end": 332.64, | |
| "text": " lot of them and we reproduced them especially for research and education purposes right now." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 332.64, | |
| "end": 340.08000000000004, | |
| "text": " This is a big glass tank way you can see about 20 of these grown up of these mature Axelotls," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 340.64, | |
| "end": 346.15999999999997, | |
| "text": " but they're about 30 centimeters long. They're kind of ambling around on those poor little feet and" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 346.15999999999997, | |
| "end": 351.59999999999997, | |
| "text": " swishing their tails like fish but walking at the same time. But this one just turns to faces." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 351.59999999999997, | |
| "end": 357.2, | |
| "text": " When their face on those little bitty eyes and that little smile that face is quite captivating," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 357.2, | |
| "end": 364.47999999999996, | |
| "text": " isn't it? That's right, that's right. You know the scientific name of the Axelotl is ambistoma." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 364.48, | |
| "end": 370.40000000000003, | |
| "text": " It means that they have the mouth like a teaspoon. You know? A mouth like a teaspoon." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 370.40000000000003, | |
| "end": 374.8, | |
| "text": " If you look the shape it looks like a little spoon. It does look like a little spoon." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 374.8, | |
| "end": 380.16, | |
| "text": " That's a scientific name, it means. They're very dark in color. They're almost sort of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 380.16, | |
| "end": 387.20000000000005, | |
| "text": " charcoly, motley colored. They live in the bottom of the lake which is very very dark so they can" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 387.2, | |
| "end": 394.71999999999997, | |
| "text": " hide in the bottom of the lake and keep waiting just right there to a little fish passing in front of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 394.71999999999997, | |
| "end": 403.12, | |
| "text": " them and jump and eat them. They pound. Exactly. There's the way they hunt. This is a natural color." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 403.12, | |
| "end": 408.8, | |
| "text": " You see? It's more common to find you know white Axelotls as a pet. It's very very common." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 408.8, | |
| "end": 415.59999999999997, | |
| "text": " But this is the natural one. This is the original one. Yeah because the ones that you see in Aquaria" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 415.68, | |
| "end": 421.20000000000005, | |
| "text": " the people have is pets. They're sort of pink. Exactly. The pink ones cannot survive in the wild." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 421.20000000000005, | |
| "end": 427.76000000000005, | |
| "text": " You know? Everyone can see them. They can know hunt very well. So that's why the nature" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 427.76000000000005, | |
| "end": 434.16, | |
| "text": " put this color in the asianotls. The color difference between wild type Axelotls and the ones" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 434.16, | |
| "end": 439.84000000000003, | |
| "text": " you're most likely to see outside Mexico brings us to the origin story of the massive population of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 439.84, | |
| "end": 446.32, | |
| "text": " Axelotls in research labs and home aquariums around the world. Most of them descend from just a few" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 446.32, | |
| "end": 453.76, | |
| "text": " caught by a French explorer visiting Mexico about 150 years ago. Richard Griffiths. 34 individuals" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 453.76, | |
| "end": 462.0, | |
| "text": " were collected in 1863 and brought back to the Paris Museum where they did very well and a lot of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 462.0, | |
| "end": 467.91999999999996, | |
| "text": " research was carried out and it was discovered that they make very good research models for all" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 467.92, | |
| "end": 473.6, | |
| "text": " sorts of things. They have quite amazing powers of regeneration so if they lose a limb they can" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 473.6, | |
| "end": 479.04, | |
| "text": " grow another one. If they lose some parts of some organs they can grow another one. It is a" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 479.04, | |
| "end": 484.88, | |
| "text": " remarkable process. An Axelotls regenerates almost anything. Andrew Johnson, a developmental biologist at" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 484.88, | |
| "end": 490.56, | |
| "text": " the UK's University of Nottingham. You can regenerate the brain. You can regenerate it hard. It" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 490.56, | |
| "end": 496.08000000000004, | |
| "text": " regenerates spinal cord. It's easiest to illustrate how interesting this is when you can see the limb." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 497.03999999999996, | |
| "end": 505.44, | |
| "text": " This is what many people study. Imagine the limb gets bitten off. It gets bitten off below the elbow." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 506.56, | |
| "end": 511.68, | |
| "text": " So what will happen is the elbow will grow back, the wrist will grow back and a hand will grow back." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 512.24, | |
| "end": 518.72, | |
| "text": " Perfectly. It will form another mirror image limb. Just like the image on the other side. In fact" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 519.52, | |
| "end": 525.76, | |
| "text": " the same size as the one on the other side as well. One question is where does the template come" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 525.76, | |
| "end": 531.84, | |
| "text": " for that information? It's incredible. You can take pieces of spinal cord out. The spinal cord" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 531.84, | |
| "end": 540.96, | |
| "text": " regenerates. People like myself, I believe that these axelots reflect our ancestors. What that" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 540.96, | |
| "end": 548.48, | |
| "text": " suggests is that if we understand regeneration in something like an axelotl that" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 548.48, | |
| "end": 554.8000000000001, | |
| "text": " is historically related to us, then it's possible there might be latent regeneration programs in" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 554.8000000000001, | |
| "end": 561.12, | |
| "text": " us. This makes it very important from a biomedical point of view in terms of looking at mechanisms" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 561.12, | |
| "end": 567.9200000000001, | |
| "text": " of regeneration and tissue transplots and organ transplots. Research that is very relevant to" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 568.88, | |
| "end": 575.44, | |
| "text": " topical work on humans. As well as regeneration, the relatively big cells of axelotl embryos" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 575.44, | |
| "end": 579.36, | |
| "text": " were key to major discoveries in embryology during the last century." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 579.36, | |
| "end": 585.6, | |
| "text": " So various forms were bred, so they almost became sort of the white mouse of the amphibian world and" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 585.6, | |
| "end": 591.36, | |
| "text": " became spread around the world, used a lot in all sorts of laboratory research and also became" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 591.36, | |
| "end": 597.9200000000001, | |
| "text": " a popular pet. Aquatic animal lovers around the world took the axelotl to their hearts, but way" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 597.9200000000001, | |
| "end": 602.6400000000001, | |
| "text": " before them the Aztec civilization took the species into the heart of its culture." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 603.12, | |
| "end": 611.12, | |
| "text": " The Mexican Axelotl, its name du Raives Roman, a mysterious Aztec god called Zelotl." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 612.88, | |
| "end": 621.04, | |
| "text": " Zelotl was the twin brother of Ketsalkoat, one of the main goddess of the Aztecs. Zelotl was not" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 621.04, | |
| "end": 628.48, | |
| "text": " pretty handsome, you know. In fact the word Zelotl means like monster, like ugly thing, you know." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 629.44, | |
| "end": 636.64, | |
| "text": " That's why the word ashelotl means in fact water monster. The Aztec people, they knew" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 636.64, | |
| "end": 645.04, | |
| "text": " ashelotl have some medical properties. They used to eat ashelotl when they feel sick or weak." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 645.04, | |
| "end": 651.52, | |
| "text": " In Aztec times the axelotl was an important part of the local lacustrine economy." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 651.52, | |
| "end": 655.9200000000001, | |
| "text": " There was a francheskin monk that once wrote that it was the food of the lords." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 656.7199999999999, | |
| "end": 662.9599999999999, | |
| "text": " So the axelotl has always been in the hearts and minds of the people and it's one of the reasons" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 662.9599999999999, | |
| "end": 669.8399999999999, | |
| "text": " it also appears on the murals in the National Palace painted by Diego Rivera. So a long history of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 670.4799999999999, | |
| "end": 675.12, | |
| "text": " cultural importance that makes it something of an amphibian icon." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 678.4, | |
| "end": 683.36, | |
| "text": " The iron ears that in the wild you name it it is hitting the wild axelotl." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 684.16, | |
| "end": 689.52, | |
| "text": " So here we have an animal that is well known all around the world in labs and pet shops" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 690.08, | |
| "end": 695.6800000000001, | |
| "text": " and that is a cultural icon. But in the wild is nearly extinct." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 698.88, | |
| "end": 704.5600000000001, | |
| "text": " I am Luis Sanbrano, I work in the National University in the Biology Institute of Mexico." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 704.5600000000001, | |
| "end": 709.52, | |
| "text": " And where are we standing right now? This is one of the places that I like to come when I am" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 709.6, | |
| "end": 718.48, | |
| "text": " sad, because it is one of the places in Sochi Milco. Where you can see how traditional agriculture" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 718.48, | |
| "end": 724.72, | |
| "text": " has been developed in the last 2000 years and you can see birds and you will see this refuge for" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 724.72, | |
| "end": 731.1999999999999, | |
| "text": " ashylotls. Luis Sanbrano has spent the last two decades charting the steep decline of the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 731.1999999999999, | |
| "end": 737.36, | |
| "text": " Mexican axelotl. But he is also working with local farmers to create safe spaces for the species" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 737.36, | |
| "end": 744.64, | |
| "text": " in Sochi Milco. Key to success he says are the Chinampas, the small artificial islands of agricultural" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 744.64, | |
| "end": 749.6800000000001, | |
| "text": " land built from the sediments, hold from the bottom of the now vanished lake Sochi Milco." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 750.32, | |
| "end": 755.76, | |
| "text": " For centuries he says the creation of the Chinampas made both people and wildlife prosper." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 756.64, | |
| "end": 762.4, | |
| "text": " It used to be a huge lake and then they started with create this square islands made from" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 762.4, | |
| "end": 769.36, | |
| "text": " mud from the bottom of the lake which fertilizing the land very well for lands. And that created a" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 769.36, | |
| "end": 776.4, | |
| "text": " labyrinth of canals around all this wetland. So these canals helped a lot the biodiversity" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 776.4, | |
| "end": 782.0, | |
| "text": " in the shallow areas of the lake. Now they have a lot of shallow areas. So the abundance of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 782.0, | |
| "end": 788.24, | |
| "text": " the diversity of the lake increase basically with cry fishes, small fishes and asholotls. When did that" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 788.32, | |
| "end": 794.8, | |
| "text": " develop? Well that started to be developed 2000 years ago when the first people arrived to" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 794.8, | |
| "end": 801.36, | |
| "text": " this valley and they started to create this new way of farming which made them a lot of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 801.36, | |
| "end": 807.04, | |
| "text": " advantage against the rest of the people because they have a lot of food for the rest of the years." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 807.04, | |
| "end": 810.88, | |
| "text": " So they started to create civilization and part of the reason the Aztecs became" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 810.96, | |
| "end": 817.68, | |
| "text": " highly powerful is because we have this high productive land. So that started to" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 817.68, | |
| "end": 821.6, | |
| "text": " start in years ago and he has been developed since then in pre-Colombian times." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 822.4, | |
| "end": 829.6, | |
| "text": " 40 to 50% of the area was made with Chinampas. So there was this sort of steady reclamation of this" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 829.6, | |
| "end": 834.48, | |
| "text": " vast lake system and we know the axolotl was a very important part of the economy." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 835.2, | |
| "end": 839.92, | |
| "text": " This was probably carried on a fairly sustainable basis for probably several hundred years." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 840.4799999999999, | |
| "end": 845.52, | |
| "text": " But with the burgeoning population and the industrialization of the area in the last" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 845.52, | |
| "end": 849.8399999999999, | |
| "text": " you know 50 to 100 years things have become more unsustainable." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 850.4, | |
| "end": 855.04, | |
| "text": " The first disaster for the axolotl was a change in the source of Zotchimilko's water." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 855.8399999999999, | |
| "end": 861.04, | |
| "text": " Until the 1950s the water levels were maintained here by the mountains, springs and rivers" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 861.04, | |
| "end": 866.8, | |
| "text": " coming into the valley in which Mexico City was expanding. But those pristine waters were" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 866.8, | |
| "end": 872.16, | |
| "text": " diverted for the sake of the city's development. From then on Zotchimilko's waterways were fed" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 872.16, | |
| "end": 878.56, | |
| "text": " by a wastewater treatment plant in the north. Studies about the treatment plant water quality says" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 878.56, | |
| "end": 884.56, | |
| "text": " that sometimes the water quality is nice and sometimes the water quality is really really back." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 884.56, | |
| "end": 889.5999999999999, | |
| "text": " Particularly in rainy season when there is a lot of rain and then it's not enough time for" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 889.5999999999999, | |
| "end": 895.28, | |
| "text": " the treatment plant to process all the water. The water arrives here with very very bad quality which" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 895.28, | |
| "end": 901.12, | |
| "text": " makes all the animals suffer and the whole plant suffer. And what does that mean for the axolotls" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 901.12, | |
| "end": 908.72, | |
| "text": " then what's been the result? Well the stories we made four years ago is along this 180 kilometers" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 908.72, | |
| "end": 916.0, | |
| "text": " of canals. We spot only six or seven small places in which they can survive because the water quality" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 916.0, | |
| "end": 922.48, | |
| "text": " is good enough. On top of that you've got lots of introduced species. In particular two non-native" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 922.48, | |
| "end": 930.64, | |
| "text": " species of fish that arrived in the 1970s. T'lapia and Asian carp have both been introduced as a" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 930.64, | |
| "end": 938.0, | |
| "text": " source of fish for local people and they do very well in this polluted water. So they grew really" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 938.0, | |
| "end": 944.4, | |
| "text": " really fast and our experiment says that carp eats eggs of the axolotls and T'lapia it's the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 944.4, | |
| "end": 949.52, | |
| "text": " juveniles of the axolotls. So these invasive fish are coming in and they're eating them at all these" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 949.52, | |
| "end": 955.36, | |
| "text": " different types of species. Not only affect with predation but also with competition because also" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 955.36, | |
| "end": 961.12, | |
| "text": " they both species compete for food with axolotls. And the third one is humanisation. I mean if you" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 961.12, | |
| "end": 968.16, | |
| "text": " see how Mexico City humanisation spread through the South in the 80s was a nightmare in terms of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 968.16, | |
| "end": 974.64, | |
| "text": " how the humanisation grew. The three of these things made that the axolotls population has been" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 974.64, | |
| "end": 981.76, | |
| "text": " decreasing a lot. So much that without any intervention there'll not be a single wild axolotl" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 981.76, | |
| "end": 986.88, | |
| "text": " left in Sotchimilko in just seven years time according to Luis San Brano's projections." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 987.4399999999999, | |
| "end": 990.24, | |
| "text": " But he says he's doing his best to stop that happening." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 994.16, | |
| "end": 999.68, | |
| "text": " The plans depend on collaborating with farmers, the Chinamperos, who work the reclaimed land here" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 999.68, | |
| "end": 1005.4399999999999, | |
| "text": " growing maize, beans and squashes and irrigating them using canals and ditches carved into their plots." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1006.0799999999999, | |
| "end": 1011.92, | |
| "text": " The idea is to create clean safe refuges for the salamanders. Let me tell you first that it's not" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1011.92, | |
| "end": 1018.3199999999999, | |
| "text": " only academic idea is an local farmer's idea also because without them we couldn't do this type of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1018.3199999999999, | |
| "end": 1025.76, | |
| "text": " restoration. The axolotls refuge basically is that we use these channels that are around the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1025.76, | |
| "end": 1033.92, | |
| "text": " Chinampas, the Sarias where the chinamperos crop. We can semi isolate them easily if we build a semi-permable" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1033.92, | |
| "end": 1040.24, | |
| "text": " dam. With plants basically the dam is not a huge construction and the most important part of these" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1040.24, | |
| "end": 1046.64, | |
| "text": " dam is the plants that filter the water so it will increase the water quality. Also forbids the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1046.64, | |
| "end": 1054.24, | |
| "text": " entrance of Carpentelapia so you will have a refuge without Carpentelapia and if the local farmer" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1054.24, | |
| "end": 1060.88, | |
| "text": " still grows their local products then we will avoid the urbanization from the rest of the area." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1061.84, | |
| "end": 1066.48, | |
| "text": " So we build this filter with the chinamperos and then you will have a nice environment" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1067.36, | |
| "end": 1072.96, | |
| "text": " that is actually the same environment that they used to have 50, 60, 70 years ago. So we are not" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1072.96, | |
| "end": 1078.8, | |
| "text": " creating something new. We are restoring the things that used to happen about 70 years ago." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1079.76, | |
| "end": 1085.04, | |
| "text": " And one of the farmers at this Chinampa, Philippe Herrera, says the plant-based water filters in" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1085.04, | |
| "end": 1089.52, | |
| "text": " the irrigation channels are good for both the axolotls and for his health and livelihood." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1095.36, | |
| "end": 1101.44, | |
| "text": " The quality of the water is very important for us. We need it to be free from pollution and not" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1101.44, | |
| "end": 1112.64, | |
| "text": " contaminated with things like heavy metals and bacteria. The water is the most important part" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1112.64, | |
| "end": 1119.6000000000001, | |
| "text": " of a complex ecosystem of which the axolotl is a part. So for us when you see an axolotl you know" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1119.6000000000001, | |
| "end": 1122.64, | |
| "text": " the water quality is good and that the ecosystem is working." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1122.72, | |
| "end": 1131.3600000000001, | |
| "text": " So Luis, the partnership between you and scientists and the people who make their livelihoods here" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1131.3600000000001, | |
| "end": 1134.8000000000002, | |
| "text": " who grow their livelihoods here is really important. How does that work?" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1135.3600000000001, | |
| "end": 1140.3200000000002, | |
| "text": " Yeah well it has been a little bit difficult since we started because we have different type of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1140.3200000000002, | |
| "end": 1145.3600000000001, | |
| "text": " philosophy. Our goal is to generate information and to restore the system and their goal is" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1145.3600000000001, | |
| "end": 1152.4, | |
| "text": " to farm and to survive from the farm. So these two different goals created some difficulties" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1152.88, | |
| "end": 1158.0800000000002, | |
| "text": " even to speak, I mean to have a communication, a proper communication. So it talks about one" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1158.0800000000002, | |
| "end": 1165.0400000000002, | |
| "text": " year or two years to generate this bonding that also has to be based on trust because they suffer" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1165.0400000000002, | |
| "end": 1169.92, | |
| "text": " a lot from scientists that come all the time here and then they retrieve all the data and then" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1169.92, | |
| "end": 1176.48, | |
| "text": " leave without anything. So I told them okay I will be here for the next 30 years so we have to" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1176.48, | |
| "end": 1182.0800000000002, | |
| "text": " create a trusty friendship at the beginning they didn't believe me but after five years they said" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1182.08, | |
| "end": 1186.24, | |
| "text": " okay maybe he's doing it. He's still here. He's still here and he doesn't live so." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1187.6799999999998, | |
| "end": 1192.6399999999999, | |
| "text": " So how many of these refugees like the one we're standing next to have you created so far?" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1192.6399999999999, | |
| "end": 1199.04, | |
| "text": " Okay we have waited about seven to eight small refuge like these ones. We are now starting a new" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1199.04, | |
| "end": 1206.32, | |
| "text": " project that will double that and our idea is to grow this in the next five or six years. We have" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1206.32, | |
| "end": 1214.24, | |
| "text": " to have at least 200, 250 refuge, a strategy positioned eventually to connect to each other." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1215.04, | |
| "end": 1219.76, | |
| "text": " The relationship of trust that's grown between Luis San Brano and the farmers means the team from" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1219.76, | |
| "end": 1225.36, | |
| "text": " his university can do a variety of studies at this Chinampa like following the lives of individual" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1225.36, | |
| "end": 1229.12, | |
| "text": " axolotls and identifying key features of the best habitats for them." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1229.1999999999998, | |
| "end": 1237.9199999999998, | |
| "text": " To do this, Alexandra Ramos is radio tracking the salamanders in the channels here. These tagged" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1237.9199999999998, | |
| "end": 1242.3999999999999, | |
| "text": " animals are ones that were actually bred and raised in the ponds of the university and fitted with" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1242.3999999999999, | |
| "end": 1246.7199999999998, | |
| "text": " tiny transmitters under their skin then released into the waters around the Chinampa." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1248.08, | |
| "end": 1251.6799999999998, | |
| "text": " You're with your three colleagues and we need quite a lot of hands for this operation don't you?" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1251.6799999999998, | |
| "end": 1257.12, | |
| "text": " Because you have a speaker and you have quite a large area looks like a big old TV area that you'd" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1257.12, | |
| "end": 1263.52, | |
| "text": " see on someone's roof. What's the process? Like that big thing is antenna and that is what's" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1263.52, | |
| "end": 1268.2399999999998, | |
| "text": " going to get the signal from the transmitter and then we have somebody else with the receptor." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1268.2399999999998, | |
| "end": 1273.4399999999998, | |
| "text": " What we're doing is we're trying to locate we have 10 axolots right now in this channels." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1273.4399999999998, | |
| "end": 1279.4399999999998, | |
| "text": " So each of them has a unique transmitter and we find that with the antenna and maybe you can hear" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1279.52, | |
| "end": 1289.52, | |
| "text": " there's a beeping sound. The closer you are to the axolot the louder it will sound and also there's" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1289.52, | |
| "end": 1295.52, | |
| "text": " a light that also like once you get close to it it goes higher up in intensity. So you have the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1295.52, | |
| "end": 1302.64, | |
| "text": " sound and you have the light. So what we do is like we'll scan for each of these animals and we'll do" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1302.72, | |
| "end": 1310.5600000000002, | |
| "text": " it like every hour from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. this is where we expect them to be most active and then we" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1310.5600000000002, | |
| "end": 1317.1200000000001, | |
| "text": " also have another person that has the GPS because every time we find an axolot we take the GPS" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1317.1200000000001, | |
| "end": 1322.72, | |
| "text": " point so we can know exactly where they were at what time, at what day, at what hour and then we do" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1322.72, | |
| "end": 1329.5200000000002, | |
| "text": " maps and we do all this statistics to see what's happening. We want to know what they're doing" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1329.52, | |
| "end": 1336.6399999999999, | |
| "text": " where they are, what type of habitat they like and also who is with whom because in previous" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1336.6399999999999, | |
| "end": 1342.16, | |
| "text": " studies we have found out quite social animals they spend time together. I'm really. Yeah." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1342.16, | |
| "end": 1347.04, | |
| "text": " I wouldn't have thought of them as being social. Exactly like there's certain times of the day," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1347.04, | |
| "end": 1353.36, | |
| "text": " mostly like during day evening where they seem to come to a certain point together and like some" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1353.36, | |
| "end": 1359.12, | |
| "text": " of my volunteers have even asked me like do axolots have parties because they all come together at" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1359.12, | |
| "end": 1363.76, | |
| "text": " some hour of the day. So yeah it seems like they are quite social more than we expected." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1365.36, | |
| "end": 1370.3999999999999, | |
| "text": " And we can hear a little beep now so how close are we? Oh that's quite loud, that's a little bit" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1370.3999999999999, | |
| "end": 1374.7199999999998, | |
| "text": " loud in there isn't it? Yeah it's probably like right next to us right now. Oh really? We can't see" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1374.7199999999998, | |
| "end": 1381.6, | |
| "text": " it because of the floating vegetation but it's right there. How does it feel to you to see kind of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1381.6, | |
| "end": 1388.1599999999999, | |
| "text": " the results of them using these refuges and this development of this area into you know that" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1388.16, | |
| "end": 1394.3200000000002, | |
| "text": " recovering ecosystem once again? Wow it's amazing it's really satisfying. This is the first time I've" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1394.3200000000002, | |
| "end": 1399.28, | |
| "text": " done the telemetry here in Sotrimilco before we used to do it in another lake, an artificial lake" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1399.92, | |
| "end": 1405.8400000000001, | |
| "text": " but bringing them back to their native habitat is a very different experience like the first day" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1405.8400000000001, | |
| "end": 1412.16, | |
| "text": " when we released them the Chinapero he asked us to do this this ritual with flowers to ask permission" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1412.16, | |
| "end": 1418.88, | |
| "text": " to the gods to be grateful to them for allowing us to use this space so it's very spiritual and it's" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1418.88, | |
| "end": 1425.1200000000001, | |
| "text": " really beautiful experience. The Chinapers' refuges for the Axelotls will only have a feature if they" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1425.1200000000001, | |
| "end": 1432.16, | |
| "text": " provide enough benefits and profit for the farmers. The water cleansing plant barriers were a good start" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1432.16, | |
| "end": 1436.96, | |
| "text": " but the farmers said they needed more from the project if they were going to farm in an axelotl" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1437.1200000000001, | |
| "end": 1443.44, | |
| "text": " friendly way. They said okay but we need also that these filters help us in order to fertilize" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1443.44, | |
| "end": 1451.3600000000001, | |
| "text": " better land so we introduce some engineers to help us to create these new fertilizers with the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1451.3600000000001, | |
| "end": 1457.3600000000001, | |
| "text": " bottom of the lake and with their ideas introduce different techniques in order to create better" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1457.3600000000001, | |
| "end": 1463.76, | |
| "text": " fertilization without any chemical fertilizer or pesticide. Oh I see so is that part of the incentive" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1463.76, | |
| "end": 1470.8, | |
| "text": " for the farmers then if you create areas where there's this natural ecosystem then the silks" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1470.8, | |
| "end": 1476.32, | |
| "text": " becomes very rich at the bottom of the lake and they can then use that as a natural fertilizer." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1476.32, | |
| "end": 1483.44, | |
| "text": " Exactly and the most important thing for them is that once they have this product they can" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1483.44, | |
| "end": 1491.12, | |
| "text": " sell them saying okay this product is protecting the axelotl is protecting such a milk so our next step" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1491.12, | |
| "end": 1497.6, | |
| "text": " is that we will create a certification in which my university another Mexican university who will" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1497.6, | |
| "end": 1502.4799999999998, | |
| "text": " certify that these products comes from this type of chin-amp passing which they are not" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1502.4799999999998, | |
| "end": 1507.76, | |
| "text": " using chemical fertilizers and they are protecting the natural oils. So they'll actually be a little" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1507.76, | |
| "end": 1513.6799999999998, | |
| "text": " sticker that says axelotl friendly produce when the produce from here is grown in this eco-friendly" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1513.6799999999998, | |
| "end": 1518.2399999999998, | |
| "text": " way that you've established it. That is the idea and we have to launch it by the end of this year." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1518.64, | |
| "end": 1523.68, | |
| "text": " For that soon. Yeah yeah actually now that we are trust each other very well then these things" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1523.68, | |
| "end": 1528.16, | |
| "text": " advanced very very fast. How much of a market do you think is that there are months consumers for" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1528.16, | |
| "end": 1534.96, | |
| "text": " axelotl friendly food? I think that now is a huge market for that I've seen a lot of people really" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1534.96, | |
| "end": 1540.48, | |
| "text": " really concerned about the actual local population. If you have made that question about six eight" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1540.48, | |
| "end": 1546.0, | |
| "text": " years ago I will tell you know I mean this is going to the extension but now the people in" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1546.0, | |
| "end": 1551.52, | |
| "text": " Mexico City are highly concerned and they want to pay a little bit more for the actual otuses." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1551.52, | |
| "end": 1556.8, | |
| "text": " One of the stories that we have already about them. Richard Griffiths conservation scientist at" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1556.8, | |
| "end": 1563.44, | |
| "text": " the University of Kent is also cautiously optimistic about some kind of future for the wild Mexican" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1563.44, | |
| "end": 1570.32, | |
| "text": " axelotl. People understand the issues of the axelotl a lot more than they used to and the profile" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1570.32, | |
| "end": 1576.8, | |
| "text": " has actually been raised and hopefully down the road that will actually lead to the threats" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1576.8, | |
| "end": 1582.72, | |
| "text": " being mitigated but I think that is quite a long road to go down because of the multiferous" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1582.72, | |
| "end": 1587.84, | |
| "text": " problems and probably the future of the axelotl in the immediate future will be in sort of small" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1588.56, | |
| "end": 1594.8, | |
| "text": " highly managed sections of the lake system where you can clean up the water through" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1595.44, | |
| "end": 1601.84, | |
| "text": " planting plants that will clean up through removal of the invasive fish and through controlled" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1601.84, | |
| "end": 1607.28, | |
| "text": " reintroductions. Carefully monitored reintroductions of axelotls bred at facilities such as" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1607.28, | |
| "end": 1612.96, | |
| "text": " luces and ericers research centres. A similar project is being considered to save another species" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1612.96, | |
| "end": 1619.44, | |
| "text": " of axelotl unique to a different lake in Mexico. In that case the Salamander breeders are a dedicated" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1619.44, | |
| "end": 1626.24, | |
| "text": " team of nuns religious sisters who rear axelotls in their convent. Their remarkable story is the" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1626.24, | |
| "end": 1632.0800000000002, | |
| "text": " subject of the next edition of Discovery from the BBC World Service but for now a final thought" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1632.0800000000002, | |
| "end": 1638.4, | |
| "text": " from Luis San Brano on the challenge of rallying the Mexican people to save a secretive slimy amphibian." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1641.68, | |
| "end": 1647.3600000000001, | |
| "text": " I don't know I mean I've seen that is by far easier to market mammals. They're not fluffy." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1647.36, | |
| "end": 1651.6799999999998, | |
| "text": " They are not fluffy. They're not sort of classically cute they kind of slimy. It's hard" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1651.6799999999998, | |
| "end": 1657.52, | |
| "text": " away in the mud. Exactly. But particularly this animal has been attached with the culture," | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1657.52, | |
| "end": 1663.76, | |
| "text": " the Mexican culture. So I think that in some way it can touch the heart of the Mexicans and since" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1663.76, | |
| "end": 1668.6399999999999, | |
| "text": " it's a little bit cute also and this strange for the rest of the world I've seen a lot of" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1668.6399999999999, | |
| "end": 1673.4399999999998, | |
| "text": " international interest on that because they are with these perpetual smiling all the time." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1673.92, | |
| "end": 1679.6000000000001, | |
| "text": " So that helps a lot to the people say okay I want to save this animal. He is smiling all the time." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1679.6000000000001, | |
| "end": 1689.3600000000001, | |
| "text": " It's worth to be saved." | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1692.3200000000002, | |
| "end": 1696.0800000000002, | |
| "text": " All right so that's Discovery and I'd say I love this feed because you never know what you're" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1696.0800000000002, | |
| "end": 1700.56, | |
| "text": " going to get. It's a simpler feed of just all the best science stuff. If you want to subscribe" | |
| }, | |
| { | |
| "start": 1700.56, | |
| "end": 1708.1599999999999, | |
| "text": " to it just search for BBC Discovery podcast and we'll see you next time." | |
| } | |
| ] |