[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, sure, it finally came down to dropping us off in the first town and it was Atalaia, Alagoas, sugarcane region town, about two hours, maybe from the capital by bus. We are scared little rabbits, you know? But there really wasn't need. Everybody was gracious, warm. We had all kinds of exuberance, welcome, welcoming, by all the local people.

[Assistant] How are you doing with the Portuguese at this point?

[User] Oh, we were stumbling, but people were generous in their understanding of our broken language.

[Assistant] You couldn't fall back on English.

[User] No, because. Oh, I'll take it back. There was there were there were a few people in town who knew a little bit of English, who were eager to, you know, improve on their English.

[Assistant] Coming into the town, was there any counterpart or mentor or structure that against which you were going to work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, we were stumbling, but people were generous in their understanding of our broken language.

[Assistant] You couldn't fall back on English.

[User] No, because. Oh, I'll take it back. There was there were there were a few people in town who knew a little bit of English, who were eager to, you know, improve on their English.

[Assistant] Coming into the town, was there any counterpart or mentor or structure that against which you were going to work?

[User] Well, there had been communication with the mayor of the city and with the educational director for the city school, who knew that we'd be working with them. They worked with the teachers. And that we were both kind of in that area. So there was some structure awaiting us to work with teachers and we began that, you know, that process.

[Assistant] Talk about finding a place to live and again, and then we'll talk about the work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, because. Oh, I'll take it back. There was there were there were a few people in town who knew a little bit of English, who were eager to, you know, improve on their English.

[Assistant] Coming into the town, was there any counterpart or mentor or structure that against which you were going to work?

[User] Well, there had been communication with the mayor of the city and with the educational director for the city school, who knew that we'd be working with them. They worked with the teachers. And that we were both kind of in that area. So there was some structure awaiting us to work with teachers and we began that, you know, that process.

[Assistant] Talk about finding a place to live and again, and then we'll talk about the work.

[User] Well as it ended up. I don't recall now how this worked out. It was a nice little, this common wall unit along the main street there, where we lived and a little living area, a bedroom. And you know a [inaudible] you conduct yourself with. And nice, clean little abode that we fixed that, and they made our own little house.

[Assistant] And who was doing the cooking?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there had been communication with the mayor of the city and with the educational director for the city school, who knew that we'd be working with them. They worked with the teachers. And that we were both kind of in that area. So there was some structure awaiting us to work with teachers and we began that, you know, that process.

[Assistant] Talk about finding a place to live and again, and then we'll talk about the work.

[User] Well as it ended up. I don't recall now how this worked out. It was a nice little, this common wall unit along the main street there, where we lived and a little living area, a bedroom. And you know a [inaudible] you conduct yourself with. And nice, clean little abode that we fixed that, and they made our own little house.

[Assistant] And who was doing the cooking?

[User] Gwen was. Seems like I might have pitched in on that, too.

[Assistant] Did you have a steward or a houseboy or someone helping you run the house?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well as it ended up. I don't recall now how this worked out. It was a nice little, this common wall unit along the main street there, where we lived and a little living area, a bedroom. And you know a [inaudible] you conduct yourself with. And nice, clean little abode that we fixed that, and they made our own little house.

[Assistant] And who was doing the cooking?

[User] Gwen was. Seems like I might have pitched in on that, too.

[Assistant] Did you have a steward or a houseboy or someone helping you run the house?

[User] No, no, no. Nobody.

[Assistant] Just the two of you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Gwen was. Seems like I might have pitched in on that, too.

[Assistant] Did you have a steward or a houseboy or someone helping you run the house?

[User] No, no, no. Nobody.

[Assistant] Just the two of you.

[User] Just two of us. We had a well, we had a charcoal stove over, just a couple of holes and put charcoal in light it and put your pot on top of this opening. Yeah, but we eventually got a kerosene cooktop and worked out great, it's amazing what we could do. No refrigeration. It wasn't part of the family content. It was just a little unit by itself. I don't know whether the mayor provided that. I don't recall. I don't remember writing a rent check to anybody, so it must have been just provided for us.

[Assistant] So you have a place to stay. Talk about the first few weeks.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no. Nobody.

[Assistant] Just the two of you.

[User] Just two of us. We had a well, we had a charcoal stove over, just a couple of holes and put charcoal in light it and put your pot on top of this opening. Yeah, but we eventually got a kerosene cooktop and worked out great, it's amazing what we could do. No refrigeration. It wasn't part of the family content. It was just a little unit by itself. I don't know whether the mayor provided that. I don't recall. I don't remember writing a rent check to anybody, so it must have been just provided for us.

[Assistant] So you have a place to stay. Talk about the first few weeks.

[User] And I got sick as a dog. One of the local fellows have not heard, he was just charmed by Americans, and so overly enthusiastic for our presence it was embarrassing. We kind of wanted to avoid him because he was stumbling over himself to be so nice. Well, he was just, poor guy, he was real concerned that I was so sick. Actually, Gwen and I were both concerned that I was so sick. My system just hadn’t adjusted. But anyway, he thought of himself as an untrained medical doctor for the area, which he was not. Anyway, he pulled out the syringe, he was going to give it a shot of something that was kind of half powder and that was kind of a frightening experience for my wife. She halted that, but there was that probably the first month, two months before we could kind of get oriented to life in the city with the people, the food, and get acclimated.

[Assistant] Had Peace Corps given you a medical kit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Just two of us. We had a well, we had a charcoal stove over, just a couple of holes and put charcoal in light it and put your pot on top of this opening. Yeah, but we eventually got a kerosene cooktop and worked out great, it's amazing what we could do. No refrigeration. It wasn't part of the family content. It was just a little unit by itself. I don't know whether the mayor provided that. I don't recall. I don't remember writing a rent check to anybody, so it must have been just provided for us.

[Assistant] So you have a place to stay. Talk about the first few weeks.

[User] And I got sick as a dog. One of the local fellows have not heard, he was just charmed by Americans, and so overly enthusiastic for our presence it was embarrassing. We kind of wanted to avoid him because he was stumbling over himself to be so nice. Well, he was just, poor guy, he was real concerned that I was so sick. Actually, Gwen and I were both concerned that I was so sick. My system just hadn’t adjusted. But anyway, he thought of himself as an untrained medical doctor for the area, which he was not. Anyway, he pulled out the syringe, he was going to give it a shot of something that was kind of half powder and that was kind of a frightening experience for my wife. She halted that, but there was that probably the first month, two months before we could kind of get oriented to life in the city with the people, the food, and get acclimated.

[Assistant] Had Peace Corps given you a medical kit?

[User] Oh yeah, yeah, and they had a medic.

[Assistant] Was there a process for medical emergency?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I got sick as a dog. One of the local fellows have not heard, he was just charmed by Americans, and so overly enthusiastic for our presence it was embarrassing. We kind of wanted to avoid him because he was stumbling over himself to be so nice. Well, he was just, poor guy, he was real concerned that I was so sick. Actually, Gwen and I were both concerned that I was so sick. My system just hadn’t adjusted. But anyway, he thought of himself as an untrained medical doctor for the area, which he was not. Anyway, he pulled out the syringe, he was going to give it a shot of something that was kind of half powder and that was kind of a frightening experience for my wife. She halted that, but there was that probably the first month, two months before we could kind of get oriented to life in the city with the people, the food, and get acclimated.

[Assistant] Had Peace Corps given you a medical kit?

[User] Oh yeah, yeah, and they had a medic.

[Assistant] Was there a process for medical emergency?

[User] Sure, sure.

[Assistant] Which was what?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, yeah, and they had a medic.

[Assistant] Was there a process for medical emergency?

[User] Sure, sure.

[Assistant] Which was what?

[User] I don't recall, but we had all kinds of pills and everything. It just they just weren't working at the time. And I was not delirious, but I was having a hard time. That was just [inaudible], you know, a severe case of it.

[Assistant] So once you realized you weren't going to die, you recovered.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure, sure.

[Assistant] Which was what?

[User] I don't recall, but we had all kinds of pills and everything. It just they just weren't working at the time. And I was not delirious, but I was having a hard time. That was just [inaudible], you know, a severe case of it.

[Assistant] So once you realized you weren't going to die, you recovered.

[User] I did. And we embarked on what was supposed to be our job responsibility, working with the teachers. And we went out and.

[Assistant] Who decided that your job responsibility was working with teachers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't recall, but we had all kinds of pills and everything. It just they just weren't working at the time. And I was not delirious, but I was having a hard time. That was just [inaudible], you know, a severe case of it.

[Assistant] So once you realized you weren't going to die, you recovered.

[User] I did. And we embarked on what was supposed to be our job responsibility, working with the teachers. And we went out and.

[Assistant] Who decided that your job responsibility was working with teachers?

[User] That was part of our job description because it was education and community development, and we did do that. We did meet with teachers. We’d go out into the rural areas and talk with the teachers. And it just was evident that Gwen was more effective at responding with the teachers than I was.

[Assistant] But Gwen was not an experienced teacher, was she?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. And we embarked on what was supposed to be our job responsibility, working with the teachers. And we went out and.

[Assistant] Who decided that your job responsibility was working with teachers?

[User] That was part of our job description because it was education and community development, and we did do that. We did meet with teachers. We’d go out into the rural areas and talk with the teachers. And it just was evident that Gwen was more effective at responding with the teachers than I was.

[Assistant] But Gwen was not an experienced teacher, was she?

[User] No, she had taught. Dyslexia. She'd been trained to work with kids with dyslexia. So she had that training. Anyway, as it ended up, we continued along that route, but it wasn't satisfying. So I began working with kids in the school programs, recreational programs. Just kind of school projects. These were young kids, like summer activity programs, you know, public posters. Learning about some nutrition, sports activities, just working with kids.

[Assistant] Were you teaching soccer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was part of our job description because it was education and community development, and we did do that. We did meet with teachers. We’d go out into the rural areas and talk with the teachers. And it just was evident that Gwen was more effective at responding with the teachers than I was.

[Assistant] But Gwen was not an experienced teacher, was she?

[User] No, she had taught. Dyslexia. She'd been trained to work with kids with dyslexia. So she had that training. Anyway, as it ended up, we continued along that route, but it wasn't satisfying. So I began working with kids in the school programs, recreational programs. Just kind of school projects. These were young kids, like summer activity programs, you know, public posters. Learning about some nutrition, sports activities, just working with kids.

[Assistant] Were you teaching soccer?

[User] No, because I didn't really know soccer.

[Assistant] In Brazil, you need to know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, she had taught. Dyslexia. She'd been trained to work with kids with dyslexia. So she had that training. Anyway, as it ended up, we continued along that route, but it wasn't satisfying. So I began working with kids in the school programs, recreational programs. Just kind of school projects. These were young kids, like summer activity programs, you know, public posters. Learning about some nutrition, sports activities, just working with kids.

[Assistant] Were you teaching soccer?

[User] No, because I didn't really know soccer.

[Assistant] In Brazil, you need to know.

[User] I try to learn, but I didn't. I didn't have anything to teach anybody.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness. Could have been a major embarrassment to the U.S. government.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, because I didn't really know soccer.

[Assistant] In Brazil, you need to know.

[User] I try to learn, but I didn't. I didn't have anything to teach anybody.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness. Could have been a major embarrassment to the U.S. government.

[User] It could have been. I got very involved in vegetable gardens.

[Assistant] And the base to this was an elementary school, a K to 8 school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I try to learn, but I didn't. I didn't have anything to teach anybody.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness. Could have been a major embarrassment to the U.S. government.

[User] It could have been. I got very involved in vegetable gardens.

[Assistant] And the base to this was an elementary school, a K to 8 school?

[User] You're talking about the working with teachers or?

[Assistant] No, with the kids.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It could have been. I got very involved in vegetable gardens.

[Assistant] And the base to this was an elementary school, a K to 8 school?

[User] You're talking about the working with teachers or?

[Assistant] No, with the kids.

[User] Yes. Yeah, that's right.

[Assistant] And it was the same school where Gwen was working as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You're talking about the working with teachers or?

[Assistant] No, with the kids.

[User] Yes. Yeah, that's right.

[Assistant] And it was the same school where Gwen was working as well?

[User] There were several schools. She had to go out to several schools, but this was just kids in the city of Atalaia. So it was just it was just that that was not a big enough project to carry on. That was just something that I did when I saw that the other wasn't panning out to me. So from there, I decided to. I realize their diet was almost exclusively just rice and beans, you know, a little bit of meat, a little bit of vegetables. And so my objective was to encourage vegetable gardens by distributing seeds that USAID had available. And to that end, I asked the mayor to contribute some land that we could put on an experimental garden on. And it was like a couple of acres maybe an ace and a half.

[Assistant] Now, were you reporting all this back to your regional Peace Corps office?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yeah, that's right.

[Assistant] And it was the same school where Gwen was working as well?

[User] There were several schools. She had to go out to several schools, but this was just kids in the city of Atalaia. So it was just it was just that that was not a big enough project to carry on. That was just something that I did when I saw that the other wasn't panning out to me. So from there, I decided to. I realize their diet was almost exclusively just rice and beans, you know, a little bit of meat, a little bit of vegetables. And so my objective was to encourage vegetable gardens by distributing seeds that USAID had available. And to that end, I asked the mayor to contribute some land that we could put on an experimental garden on. And it was like a couple of acres maybe an ace and a half.

[Assistant] Now, were you reporting all this back to your regional Peace Corps office?

[User] Yes. Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And were they approving or they were just listening?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were several schools. She had to go out to several schools, but this was just kids in the city of Atalaia. So it was just it was just that that was not a big enough project to carry on. That was just something that I did when I saw that the other wasn't panning out to me. So from there, I decided to. I realize their diet was almost exclusively just rice and beans, you know, a little bit of meat, a little bit of vegetables. And so my objective was to encourage vegetable gardens by distributing seeds that USAID had available. And to that end, I asked the mayor to contribute some land that we could put on an experimental garden on. And it was like a couple of acres maybe an ace and a half.

[Assistant] Now, were you reporting all this back to your regional Peace Corps office?

[User] Yes. Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And were they approving or they were just listening?

[User] Sure.

[Assistant] And did anyone come out from USAID?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And were they approving or they were just listening?

[User] Sure.

[Assistant] And did anyone come out from USAID?

[User] Sure. Yeah, they did, but it ended up being a pretty good project because it was a real promotional plus for USAID.

[Assistant] And you had no background in small agriculture?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure.

[Assistant] And did anyone come out from USAID?

[User] Sure. Yeah, they did, but it ended up being a pretty good project because it was a real promotional plus for USAID.

[Assistant] And you had no background in small agriculture?

[User] Well, nothing other than where I grew up. I mean, I have my grandmother in the garden and I worked in the garden and my mother than they had. My grandfather did some gardening, but that was not their location and we weren't farmers. No, I didn't have real experience, and I just read up about it.

[Assistant] But there must have been some sophistication to it because if it's a tropical area, I mean, not everything's going to grow and you need to know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. Yeah, they did, but it ended up being a pretty good project because it was a real promotional plus for USAID.

[Assistant] And you had no background in small agriculture?

[User] Well, nothing other than where I grew up. I mean, I have my grandmother in the garden and I worked in the garden and my mother than they had. My grandfather did some gardening, but that was not their location and we weren't farmers. No, I didn't have real experience, and I just read up about it.

[Assistant] But there must have been some sophistication to it because if it's a tropical area, I mean, not everything's going to grow and you need to know.

[User] [00:47:47]. Well, I was just lucky. I don't know. We end up having a heck of a knockout garden. We had all kinds of lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots, squash.

[Assistant] How many of those foods were people in the town willing to bring into their diet?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, nothing other than where I grew up. I mean, I have my grandmother in the garden and I worked in the garden and my mother than they had. My grandfather did some gardening, but that was not their location and we weren't farmers. No, I didn't have real experience, and I just read up about it.

[Assistant] But there must have been some sophistication to it because if it's a tropical area, I mean, not everything's going to grow and you need to know.

[User] [00:47:47]. Well, I was just lucky. I don't know. We end up having a heck of a knockout garden. We had all kinds of lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots, squash.

[Assistant] How many of those foods were people in the town willing to bring into their diet?

[User] I don't know. But they these were all foods that were available at the market in Maceió, but frequently what people would have to do. Someone would drive to Maceió, buy the produce there, bring it back out to the market and sell it. Yeah, and that's a lot. What I was trying to do to encourage people, show them it could be grown there. And they within a very small pocket garden there, you can generally produce quite a good yield of different vegetables.

[Assistant] Who were the agricultural workers in that community, the men or women or both?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] [00:47:47]. Well, I was just lucky. I don't know. We end up having a heck of a knockout garden. We had all kinds of lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage, carrots, squash.

[Assistant] How many of those foods were people in the town willing to bring into their diet?

[User] I don't know. But they these were all foods that were available at the market in Maceió, but frequently what people would have to do. Someone would drive to Maceió, buy the produce there, bring it back out to the market and sell it. Yeah, and that's a lot. What I was trying to do to encourage people, show them it could be grown there. And they within a very small pocket garden there, you can generally produce quite a good yield of different vegetables.

[Assistant] Who were the agricultural workers in that community, the men or women or both?

[User] Mostly men. There was sugar cane. So that that was their primary agriculture.

[Assistant] Was there any structure other than the school that you could work off, work against in developing this? Two acres is going to be substantial.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don't know. But they these were all foods that were available at the market in Maceió, but frequently what people would have to do. Someone would drive to Maceió, buy the produce there, bring it back out to the market and sell it. Yeah, and that's a lot. What I was trying to do to encourage people, show them it could be grown there. And they within a very small pocket garden there, you can generally produce quite a good yield of different vegetables.

[Assistant] Who were the agricultural workers in that community, the men or women or both?

[User] Mostly men. There was sugar cane. So that that was their primary agriculture.

[Assistant] Was there any structure other than the school that you could work off, work against in developing this? Two acres is going to be substantial.

[User] Yeah. Well, I have one guy that I worked with who assigned by, I guess the mayor.

[Assistant] So the town, in the sense was willing to endorse what you did and support it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Mostly men. There was sugar cane. So that that was their primary agriculture.

[Assistant] Was there any structure other than the school that you could work off, work against in developing this? Two acres is going to be substantial.

[User] Yeah. Well, I have one guy that I worked with who assigned by, I guess the mayor.

[Assistant] So the town, in the sense was willing to endorse what you did and support it.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] And AID came in. Did they provide anything other than the seed?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Well, I have one guy that I worked with who assigned by, I guess the mayor.

[Assistant] So the town, in the sense was willing to endorse what you did and support it.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] And AID came in. Did they provide anything other than the seed?

[User] No, no, no. We did it all with a hoe.

[Assistant] So was it what, three months, six months into your being in this site that you finally came to the garden?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] And AID came in. Did they provide anything other than the seed?

[User] No, no, no. We did it all with a hoe.

[Assistant] So was it what, three months, six months into your being in this site that you finally came to the garden?

[User] I'm not sure. I would guess, I don't know, three to six months. I don't know. I would guess somewhere in between.

[Assistant] During the first year, a couple of questions. How long would you be in the village without going out to the capital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no. We did it all with a hoe.

[Assistant] So was it what, three months, six months into your being in this site that you finally came to the garden?

[User] I'm not sure. I would guess, I don't know, three to six months. I don't know. I would guess somewhere in between.

[Assistant] During the first year, a couple of questions. How long would you be in the village without going out to the capital?

[User] Oh, well, maybe three or four weeks.

[Assistant] Was there a circuit of other volunteers from the group where you could go on weekend or get together?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm not sure. I would guess, I don't know, three to six months. I don't know. I would guess somewhere in between.

[Assistant] During the first year, a couple of questions. How long would you be in the village without going out to the capital?

[User] Oh, well, maybe three or four weeks.

[Assistant] Was there a circuit of other volunteers from the group where you could go on weekend or get together?

[User] Well, usually we were close enough to the capital. Capital seem to be kind of the magnet. It everybody would come into the capital. Because there was more to do in the capital. We did have another couple of friends that that resided to the north of us, John and Jan Wunderlich. And we would go up and visit them. We had another friend who was down in another larger city, by the name of Bob Cook, and we would go and visit him. But that was rare. Yeah, usually it was people would just go to the capital.

[Assistant] How did you get around us?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, well, maybe three or four weeks.

[Assistant] Was there a circuit of other volunteers from the group where you could go on weekend or get together?

[User] Well, usually we were close enough to the capital. Capital seem to be kind of the magnet. It everybody would come into the capital. Because there was more to do in the capital. We did have another couple of friends that that resided to the north of us, John and Jan Wunderlich. And we would go up and visit them. We had another friend who was down in another larger city, by the name of Bob Cook, and we would go and visit him. But that was rare. Yeah, usually it was people would just go to the capital.

[Assistant] How did you get around us?

[User] Bus. Bum a ride.

[Assistant] Related question. Do you recall your first Christmas in Brazil?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, usually we were close enough to the capital. Capital seem to be kind of the magnet. It everybody would come into the capital. Because there was more to do in the capital. We did have another couple of friends that that resided to the north of us, John and Jan Wunderlich. And we would go up and visit them. We had another friend who was down in another larger city, by the name of Bob Cook, and we would go and visit him. But that was rare. Yeah, usually it was people would just go to the capital.

[Assistant] How did you get around us?

[User] Bus. Bum a ride.

[Assistant] Related question. Do you recall your first Christmas in Brazil?

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. Because sometimes it's the very hardest time, a traditional time back home.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bus. Bum a ride.

[Assistant] Related question. Do you recall your first Christmas in Brazil?

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. Because sometimes it's the very hardest time, a traditional time back home.

[User] No, but my wife might.

[Assistant] So by the end of the first year, how would you assess, what was your feeling about what you were doing, what you were doing there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] OK. Because sometimes it's the very hardest time, a traditional time back home.

[User] No, but my wife might.

[Assistant] So by the end of the first year, how would you assess, what was your feeling about what you were doing, what you were doing there?

[User] Generally I was feeling good about things because I had finally taken something that was so totally frustrating to me and turned it into something that I felt I was beginning to get some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Which I have not experienced until now. And before that, I was reading a lot in my footlocker and going around seeing people, working with kids and stuff, but I really want to accomplish so much. So once I began this gardening project, it really ended up being very successful. It was quite a show for us. A lot of people came from all around to look at it.

[Assistant] Did you have visits from a Peace Corps staff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, but my wife might.

[Assistant] So by the end of the first year, how would you assess, what was your feeling about what you were doing, what you were doing there?

[User] Generally I was feeling good about things because I had finally taken something that was so totally frustrating to me and turned it into something that I felt I was beginning to get some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Which I have not experienced until now. And before that, I was reading a lot in my footlocker and going around seeing people, working with kids and stuff, but I really want to accomplish so much. So once I began this gardening project, it really ended up being very successful. It was quite a show for us. A lot of people came from all around to look at it.

[Assistant] Did you have visits from a Peace Corps staff?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] What was the visit like?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Generally I was feeling good about things because I had finally taken something that was so totally frustrating to me and turned it into something that I felt I was beginning to get some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Which I have not experienced until now. And before that, I was reading a lot in my footlocker and going around seeing people, working with kids and stuff, but I really want to accomplish so much. So once I began this gardening project, it really ended up being very successful. It was quite a show for us. A lot of people came from all around to look at it.

[Assistant] Did you have visits from a Peace Corps staff?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] What was the visit like?

[User] Well, they just saw what I was doing. And the interesting political problem we encountered is that by producing all of these vegetables, and you can produce a lot of vegetables on an acre and a half. We took it to the market to sell. Well, I don't know that I was squeezing the livelihood of this other guy who would drive to Maceió and bring it back and sell it at a high price or something. Ours was at a cheap price. Well, all of a sudden we had a problem, and so we had a voodoo hex put on our garden.

[Assistant] When was this? Still during the first year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] What was the visit like?

[User] Well, they just saw what I was doing. And the interesting political problem we encountered is that by producing all of these vegetables, and you can produce a lot of vegetables on an acre and a half. We took it to the market to sell. Well, I don't know that I was squeezing the livelihood of this other guy who would drive to Maceió and bring it back and sell it at a high price or something. Ours was at a cheap price. Well, all of a sudden we had a problem, and so we had a voodoo hex put on our garden.

[Assistant] When was this? Still during the first year?

[User] Yeah. One day we found a skull on the fence post, you know, and something dripping off of it, I don't know. And my helper said, hey, we've got to counteract this by doing this counter stuff. So he sprinkled some stuff and then we took it to the market. He sprinkled it around the stand and hopefully. So it was it was an interesting little twist that I hadn't anticipated.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So you were actually, you and your assistant, or the guy you working with, you were sitting at a stall in the market and selling?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they just saw what I was doing. And the interesting political problem we encountered is that by producing all of these vegetables, and you can produce a lot of vegetables on an acre and a half. We took it to the market to sell. Well, I don't know that I was squeezing the livelihood of this other guy who would drive to Maceió and bring it back and sell it at a high price or something. Ours was at a cheap price. Well, all of a sudden we had a problem, and so we had a voodoo hex put on our garden.

[Assistant] When was this? Still during the first year?

[User] Yeah. One day we found a skull on the fence post, you know, and something dripping off of it, I don't know. And my helper said, hey, we've got to counteract this by doing this counter stuff. So he sprinkled some stuff and then we took it to the market. He sprinkled it around the stand and hopefully. So it was it was an interesting little twist that I hadn't anticipated.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So you were actually, you and your assistant, or the guy you working with, you were sitting at a stall in the market and selling?

[User] That's right. Yeah. And it was intended to be a showplace that would be something that people could see what can be done. And then I would go meet with people and distribute seeds for free. And ask them to come out if they wanted. And I would show them how to plant a garden, how to mix it in there.

[Assistant] How would you make contact with those people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. One day we found a skull on the fence post, you know, and something dripping off of it, I don't know. And my helper said, hey, we've got to counteract this by doing this counter stuff. So he sprinkled some stuff and then we took it to the market. He sprinkled it around the stand and hopefully. So it was it was an interesting little twist that I hadn't anticipated.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. So you were actually, you and your assistant, or the guy you working with, you were sitting at a stall in the market and selling?

[User] That's right. Yeah. And it was intended to be a showplace that would be something that people could see what can be done. And then I would go meet with people and distribute seeds for free. And ask them to come out if they wanted. And I would show them how to plant a garden, how to mix it in there.

[Assistant] How would you make contact with those people?

[User] Up and down the street or whatever.

[Assistant] So you were you were comfortable enough and you were familiar enough in the town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right. Yeah. And it was intended to be a showplace that would be something that people could see what can be done. And then I would go meet with people and distribute seeds for free. And ask them to come out if they wanted. And I would show them how to plant a garden, how to mix it in there.

[Assistant] How would you make contact with those people?

[User] Up and down the street or whatever.

[Assistant] So you were you were comfortable enough and you were familiar enough in the town?

[User] Well, I would talk to my neighbors and they would show a lot of people.

[Assistant] Yeah, but there was no farmers co-op or Ministry of Agriculture or Future Farmers of America or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Up and down the street or whatever.

[Assistant] So you were you were comfortable enough and you were familiar enough in the town?

[User] Well, I would talk to my neighbors and they would show a lot of people.

[Assistant] Yeah, but there was no farmers co-op or Ministry of Agriculture or Future Farmers of America or?

[User] No, none of that that was available. But it was a twofold, multiple, two for one thing. One was to encourage people to have their own gardens and secondly to supplement their food, you know, to improve their diet. So to that end, we were moderately successful, but then we had some frustration because of this political issue that had we hadn’t anticipated.

[Assistant] You know, during the first year, did you and Gwen have a chance to socialize with Brazilians? Yeah, I mean, how does that that work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I would talk to my neighbors and they would show a lot of people.

[Assistant] Yeah, but there was no farmers co-op or Ministry of Agriculture or Future Farmers of America or?

[User] No, none of that that was available. But it was a twofold, multiple, two for one thing. One was to encourage people to have their own gardens and secondly to supplement their food, you know, to improve their diet. So to that end, we were moderately successful, but then we had some frustration because of this political issue that had we hadn’t anticipated.

[Assistant] You know, during the first year, did you and Gwen have a chance to socialize with Brazilians? Yeah, I mean, how does that that work?

[User] Fine, probably as a married couple as well, it turned out fine. But we also had one another too. So we weren't as forced to be out and socializing as much. But yeah, that ended up being that ended up fine.

[Assistant] Sometimes people in a living in another culture find kind of like a mentor or an informant who sort of helps them to understand the rituals, customs that they see. Was there anything like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, none of that that was available. But it was a twofold, multiple, two for one thing. One was to encourage people to have their own gardens and secondly to supplement their food, you know, to improve their diet. So to that end, we were moderately successful, but then we had some frustration because of this political issue that had we hadn’t anticipated.

[Assistant] You know, during the first year, did you and Gwen have a chance to socialize with Brazilians? Yeah, I mean, how does that that work?

[User] Fine, probably as a married couple as well, it turned out fine. But we also had one another too. So we weren't as forced to be out and socializing as much. But yeah, that ended up being that ended up fine.

[Assistant] Sometimes people in a living in another culture find kind of like a mentor or an informant who sort of helps them to understand the rituals, customs that they see. Was there anything like that?

[User] Well, this this one fellow was hopeful, but he was so overly eager that you had to distance ourselves a little bit otherwise because he had a way of antagonizing some of the other locals too. Even with his good intentions. But sure, we seem to get along pretty well with all of our neighbors.

[Assistant] Did you was your Portuguese improving?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Fine, probably as a married couple as well, it turned out fine. But we also had one another too. So we weren't as forced to be out and socializing as much. But yeah, that ended up being that ended up fine.

[Assistant] Sometimes people in a living in another culture find kind of like a mentor or an informant who sort of helps them to understand the rituals, customs that they see. Was there anything like that?

[User] Well, this this one fellow was hopeful, but he was so overly eager that you had to distance ourselves a little bit otherwise because he had a way of antagonizing some of the other locals too. Even with his good intentions. But sure, we seem to get along pretty well with all of our neighbors.

[Assistant] Did you was your Portuguese improving?

[User] Yes, it was. Uh-huh. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was there any point that you felt comfortable?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, this this one fellow was hopeful, but he was so overly eager that you had to distance ourselves a little bit otherwise because he had a way of antagonizing some of the other locals too. Even with his good intentions. But sure, we seem to get along pretty well with all of our neighbors.

[Assistant] Did you was your Portuguese improving?

[User] Yes, it was. Uh-huh. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was there any point that you felt comfortable?

[User] Oh yeah. But then but then I'm not too embarrassed to be, to make a fool of myself and communication with gestures. No, no, I felt fine about it, I mean, I knew certainly that I didn't have the command of the language that I would have liked, but I felt comfortable enough.

[Assistant] But we're coming to the end of the first year. So coming toward the end of the first year. Did you have any vacation breaks in there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was. Uh-huh. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was there any point that you felt comfortable?

[User] Oh yeah. But then but then I'm not too embarrassed to be, to make a fool of myself and communication with gestures. No, no, I felt fine about it, I mean, I knew certainly that I didn't have the command of the language that I would have liked, but I felt comfortable enough.

[Assistant] But we're coming to the end of the first year. So coming toward the end of the first year. Did you have any vacation breaks in there?

[User] Sure, we would. We would leave on an extended weekend breaks periodically and go to, if not the capital, is not Maceió, the we would go to what they call the capital of the northeast, which was Recife, which was further north from us. Four-hour bus ride. Much bigger city.

[Assistant] You were being paid by Peace Corps, plus a leave allowance I think?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah. But then but then I'm not too embarrassed to be, to make a fool of myself and communication with gestures. No, no, I felt fine about it, I mean, I knew certainly that I didn't have the command of the language that I would have liked, but I felt comfortable enough.

[Assistant] But we're coming to the end of the first year. So coming toward the end of the first year. Did you have any vacation breaks in there?

[User] Sure, we would. We would leave on an extended weekend breaks periodically and go to, if not the capital, is not Maceió, the we would go to what they call the capital of the northeast, which was Recife, which was further north from us. Four-hour bus ride. Much bigger city.

[Assistant] You were being paid by Peace Corps, plus a leave allowance I think?

[User] We had some time and I don't recall if it was a leave allowance or not. I mean, we certainly had time off to take a vacation once a year. And for those, we would probably go to Rio de Janeiro or Salvador. For extended weekends we’d go to Recife.

[Assistant] And where did you go for Mardi Gras?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure, we would. We would leave on an extended weekend breaks periodically and go to, if not the capital, is not Maceió, the we would go to what they call the capital of the northeast, which was Recife, which was further north from us. Four-hour bus ride. Much bigger city.

[Assistant] You were being paid by Peace Corps, plus a leave allowance I think?

[User] We had some time and I don't recall if it was a leave allowance or not. I mean, we certainly had time off to take a vacation once a year. And for those, we would probably go to Rio de Janeiro or Salvador. For extended weekends we’d go to Recife.

[Assistant] And where did you go for Mardi Gras?

[User] Well, one Mardi Gras we spent in Atalaia, and we didn't try to do Rio on Mardi Gras. It was just too much. We probably didn't have that much money saved up for that anyway. But yeah, Mardi Gras in Brazil is big, big deal.

[Assistant] Through the year, were you kind of writing back to the families?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We had some time and I don't recall if it was a leave allowance or not. I mean, we certainly had time off to take a vacation once a year. And for those, we would probably go to Rio de Janeiro or Salvador. For extended weekends we’d go to Recife.

[Assistant] And where did you go for Mardi Gras?

[User] Well, one Mardi Gras we spent in Atalaia, and we didn't try to do Rio on Mardi Gras. It was just too much. We probably didn't have that much money saved up for that anyway. But yeah, Mardi Gras in Brazil is big, big deal.

[Assistant] Through the year, were you kind of writing back to the families?

[User] Yes, just that we missed them a lot. A lot was going on in the United States then too.

[Assistant] Be able to stay in touch with what was going on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, one Mardi Gras we spent in Atalaia, and we didn't try to do Rio on Mardi Gras. It was just too much. We probably didn't have that much money saved up for that anyway. But yeah, Mardi Gras in Brazil is big, big deal.

[Assistant] Through the year, were you kind of writing back to the families?

[User] Yes, just that we missed them a lot. A lot was going on in the United States then too.

[Assistant] Be able to stay in touch with what was going on?

[User] Yes, because I'd have, I've read Time magazine from cover to cover. I mean, all of the letters to the editor, everything little ad in there, just devour the magazine. That became a kind of a real bonding time for me and the Time magazine. And then I read an awful lot out of the foot locker that they would still have the foot lockers. That was great.

[Assistant] All the books you always intended to read, there they were.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, just that we missed them a lot. A lot was going on in the United States then too.

[Assistant] Be able to stay in touch with what was going on?

[User] Yes, because I'd have, I've read Time magazine from cover to cover. I mean, all of the letters to the editor, everything little ad in there, just devour the magazine. That became a kind of a real bonding time for me and the Time magazine. And then I read an awful lot out of the foot locker that they would still have the foot lockers. That was great.

[Assistant] All the books you always intended to read, there they were.

[User] Yeah, I mean, speaking of my language proficiency or lack thereof. Some of the other volunteers, some of the singles, would even read the Brazilian magazines. Now I never, I read a Brazilian magazine just the way I would look at LIFE. Just look at the photos. And I've read a few of the words, but I didn't get into the stories as much.

[Assistant] Did the group get together at any point, usually between first and second year.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, because I'd have, I've read Time magazine from cover to cover. I mean, all of the letters to the editor, everything little ad in there, just devour the magazine. That became a kind of a real bonding time for me and the Time magazine. And then I read an awful lot out of the foot locker that they would still have the foot lockers. That was great.

[Assistant] All the books you always intended to read, there they were.

[User] Yeah, I mean, speaking of my language proficiency or lack thereof. Some of the other volunteers, some of the singles, would even read the Brazilian magazines. Now I never, I read a Brazilian magazine just the way I would look at LIFE. Just look at the photos. And I've read a few of the words, but I didn't get into the stories as much.

[Assistant] Did the group get together at any point, usually between first and second year.

[User] We did. We did. And in fact.

[Assistant] Was it the whole training group from Brattleboro or just your regional?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I mean, speaking of my language proficiency or lack thereof. Some of the other volunteers, some of the singles, would even read the Brazilian magazines. Now I never, I read a Brazilian magazine just the way I would look at LIFE. Just look at the photos. And I've read a few of the words, but I didn't get into the stories as much.

[Assistant] Did the group get together at any point, usually between first and second year.

[User] We did. We did. And in fact.

[Assistant] Was it the whole training group from Brattleboro or just your regional?

[User] No, just our region. And I recall one of the group meetings was held at some regional school building. And they brought in some people with U.S. AID who were going to talk about gardening. And see, all of a sudden, at that time, that's one of the things that precipitated, really jump-started doing stuff that I thought really might make sense. Then they brought someone in to talk about sanitation, water, some other. I must say that they made valiant stabs at attempting to give us ideas. Little seeds of interest that might, you know, might grow into something. And that was helpful.

[Assistant] But they weren't out there doing it. They were sort of relying on you to be on the front line.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did. We did. And in fact.

[Assistant] Was it the whole training group from Brattleboro or just your regional?

[User] No, just our region. And I recall one of the group meetings was held at some regional school building. And they brought in some people with U.S. AID who were going to talk about gardening. And see, all of a sudden, at that time, that's one of the things that precipitated, really jump-started doing stuff that I thought really might make sense. Then they brought someone in to talk about sanitation, water, some other. I must say that they made valiant stabs at attempting to give us ideas. Little seeds of interest that might, you know, might grow into something. And that was helpful.

[Assistant] But they weren't out there doing it. They were sort of relying on you to be on the front line.

[User] That's right. That's right. Here are some ideas, if it fits with your community, take it and run with it. Call us if you need some help.

[Assistant] All right. You were mentioning AID people. Do you recall sharing your experiences with others in your group and how did it match up?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, just our region. And I recall one of the group meetings was held at some regional school building. And they brought in some people with U.S. AID who were going to talk about gardening. And see, all of a sudden, at that time, that's one of the things that precipitated, really jump-started doing stuff that I thought really might make sense. Then they brought someone in to talk about sanitation, water, some other. I must say that they made valiant stabs at attempting to give us ideas. Little seeds of interest that might, you know, might grow into something. And that was helpful.

[Assistant] But they weren't out there doing it. They were sort of relying on you to be on the front line.

[User] That's right. That's right. Here are some ideas, if it fits with your community, take it and run with it. Call us if you need some help.

[Assistant] All right. You were mentioning AID people. Do you recall sharing your experiences with others in your group and how did it match up?

[User] I did. In fact, some of them came by to see what I have done and how I had done it. But I was trying to share all of that information too.

[Assistant] But your sense of frustration was not unique and I mean, when you talk to the other volunteers in the group.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right. That's right. Here are some ideas, if it fits with your community, take it and run with it. Call us if you need some help.

[Assistant] All right. You were mentioning AID people. Do you recall sharing your experiences with others in your group and how did it match up?

[User] I did. In fact, some of them came by to see what I have done and how I had done it. But I was trying to share all of that information too.

[Assistant] But your sense of frustration was not unique and I mean, when you talk to the other volunteers in the group.

[User] No, that's right.

[Assistant] Had many of the group going home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I did. In fact, some of them came by to see what I have done and how I had done it. But I was trying to share all of that information too.

[Assistant] But your sense of frustration was not unique and I mean, when you talk to the other volunteers in the group.

[User] No, that's right.

[Assistant] Had many of the group going home?

[User] No, not many.

[Assistant] So did you take a major vacation break between the first and second year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, that's right.

[Assistant] Had many of the group going home?

[User] No, not many.

[Assistant] So did you take a major vacation break between the first and second year?

[User] Yes, we did. We went to Rio and from Rio we went to Brasilia, Sao Paolo. We made all of the rounds of the large cities there and then back.

[Assistant] OK, now returning back to the second year, it sometimes happens with people. They now sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're talking about going into the second year, whether you know that your tour was going to be over within a year and sometimes people say, well before I go, I'd like to achieve this much. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Was there any sense of that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not many.

[Assistant] So did you take a major vacation break between the first and second year?

[User] Yes, we did. We went to Rio and from Rio we went to Brasilia, Sao Paolo. We made all of the rounds of the large cities there and then back.

[Assistant] OK, now returning back to the second year, it sometimes happens with people. They now sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're talking about going into the second year, whether you know that your tour was going to be over within a year and sometimes people say, well before I go, I'd like to achieve this much. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Was there any sense of that?

[User] No, no. We were just hopeful that we would be able to cope with it with the frustration. As it ended up, we did make a move from the town of Atalaia to a larger town of Panehu, and that was probably for the last nine months or six to nine months of our stay.

[Assistant] And how did that come about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we did. We went to Rio and from Rio we went to Brasilia, Sao Paolo. We made all of the rounds of the large cities there and then back.

[Assistant] OK, now returning back to the second year, it sometimes happens with people. They now sort of see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're talking about going into the second year, whether you know that your tour was going to be over within a year and sometimes people say, well before I go, I'd like to achieve this much. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Was there any sense of that?

[User] No, no. We were just hopeful that we would be able to cope with it with the frustration. As it ended up, we did make a move from the town of Atalaia to a larger town of Panehu, and that was probably for the last nine months or six to nine months of our stay.

[Assistant] And how did that come about?

[User] Well, that was just over some political pressures in the city. There was some, some strife and discontent over the garden issue. And as it ended up, we were not getting quite the support we thought we needed. There were some personality issues involved too as it ended up. It was just kind of resolved that it's probably better if we relocated to this other city.

[Assistant] Now you, you initiated this in talks with the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. We were just hopeful that we would be able to cope with it with the frustration. As it ended up, we did make a move from the town of Atalaia to a larger town of Panehu, and that was probably for the last nine months or six to nine months of our stay.

[Assistant] And how did that come about?

[User] Well, that was just over some political pressures in the city. There was some, some strife and discontent over the garden issue. And as it ended up, we were not getting quite the support we thought we needed. There were some personality issues involved too as it ended up. It was just kind of resolved that it's probably better if we relocated to this other city.

[Assistant] Now you, you initiated this in talks with the Peace Corps?

[User] Well, with staff. And everybody kind of decided that was probably better.

[Assistant] Gwen was pretty much content with it as well.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, that was just over some political pressures in the city. There was some, some strife and discontent over the garden issue. And as it ended up, we were not getting quite the support we thought we needed. There were some personality issues involved too as it ended up. It was just kind of resolved that it's probably better if we relocated to this other city.

[Assistant] Now you, you initiated this in talks with the Peace Corps?

[User] Well, with staff. And everybody kind of decided that was probably better.

[Assistant] Gwen was pretty much content with it as well.

[User] Yeah, we were all. We'd all kind of tried to evaluate what we thought.

[Assistant] So was the feeling that staying another six eight months there was not going to really accomplish anything.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, with staff. And everybody kind of decided that was probably better.

[Assistant] Gwen was pretty much content with it as well.

[User] Yeah, we were all. We'd all kind of tried to evaluate what we thought.

[Assistant] So was the feeling that staying another six eight months there was not going to really accomplish anything.

[User] Not any more than what we had done, we didn't think. And in fact, we were encountering resistance from some of the leadership there. So we had apparently, as I say, I was unaware that I maybe had stepped on some toes in doing what we did.

[Assistant] But obviously, I mean, on one level, you successful in having introduced change.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we were all. We'd all kind of tried to evaluate what we thought.

[Assistant] So was the feeling that staying another six eight months there was not going to really accomplish anything.

[User] Not any more than what we had done, we didn't think. And in fact, we were encountering resistance from some of the leadership there. So we had apparently, as I say, I was unaware that I maybe had stepped on some toes in doing what we did.

[Assistant] But obviously, I mean, on one level, you successful in having introduced change.

[User] Well, I felt so.

[Assistant] And the fact that the resistance occurred is the proof, you know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not any more than what we had done, we didn't think. And in fact, we were encountering resistance from some of the leadership there. So we had apparently, as I say, I was unaware that I maybe had stepped on some toes in doing what we did.

[Assistant] But obviously, I mean, on one level, you successful in having introduced change.

[User] Well, I felt so.

[Assistant] And the fact that the resistance occurred is the proof, you know.

[User] Well, maybe, maybe. But regardless of the circumstances were such that it just needed, it deserved a change.

[Assistant] So what was your new the new assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I felt so.

[Assistant] And the fact that the resistance occurred is the proof, you know.

[User] Well, maybe, maybe. But regardless of the circumstances were such that it just needed, it deserved a change.

[Assistant] So what was your new the new assignment?

[User] Well, we went to Panehu, which was a much larger city, about 30,000, and that we located in a small, smaller little house on kind of a farm outside of town. A bigger, bigger city, but in a more remote location.

[Assistant] Other volunteers in the town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we went to Panehu, which was a much larger city, about 30,000, and that we located in a small, smaller little house on kind of a farm outside of town. A bigger, bigger city, but in a more remote location.

[Assistant] Other volunteers in the town?

[User] One other volunteer. One other volunteer, who lived in the city.

[Assistant] Doing what?

[User] He was working with teachers, but at a higher level. I mean, this was a, I don't know what, I guess would be the sort of high school type teachers. You know, so I continued my gardening there.

[Assistant] And what was the base against which you worked in the second location?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] One other volunteer. One other volunteer, who lived in the city.

[Assistant] Doing what?

[User] He was working with teachers, but at a higher level. I mean, this was a, I don't know what, I guess would be the sort of high school type teachers. You know, so I continued my gardening there.

[Assistant] And what was the base against which you worked in the second location?

[User] The base?

[Assistant] I mean, the school? You didn't just start a garden


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The base?

[Assistant] I mean, the school? You didn't just start a garden

[User] Oh, no, actually, at that point, I think I just kind of. I remember I had gotten much more frustrated by now, and I did gardening, but I didn't have a project. I tried to just go around and work with the locals in trying to, you know, I didn't try to put on a big garden project.

[Assistant] Got it.

[User] I just tried to work with the local people and try and encourage them to plant gardens and help them with it and then distribute seeds as well.

[Assistant] What was what was the source of the frustration then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no, actually, at that point, I think I just kind of. I remember I had gotten much more frustrated by now, and I did gardening, but I didn't have a project. I tried to just go around and work with the locals in trying to, you know, I didn't try to put on a big garden project.

[Assistant] Got it.

[User] I just tried to work with the local people and try and encourage them to plant gardens and help them with it and then distribute seeds as well.

[Assistant] What was what was the source of the frustration then?

[User] Oh, I think because I had I thought I had started a pretty good project. Thought it was reasonably well pursued. But then out of it came these political problems. And it wasn't something I could cope with when I didn't have political power. And I didn't feel like trying to start another type of project. Frankly, I wasn't sure what else start at the time. At that time I was just beginning to get frustrated with the whole program.

[Assistant] But not willing to say, let's go home.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I just tried to work with the local people and try and encourage them to plant gardens and help them with it and then distribute seeds as well.

[Assistant] What was what was the source of the frustration then?

[User] Oh, I think because I had I thought I had started a pretty good project. Thought it was reasonably well pursued. But then out of it came these political problems. And it wasn't something I could cope with when I didn't have political power. And I didn't feel like trying to start another type of project. Frankly, I wasn't sure what else start at the time. At that time I was just beginning to get frustrated with the whole program.

[Assistant] But not willing to say, let's go home.

[User] No, no, I wouldn't have said that. And but as it ends up, I didn't find another substitute project that was a good alternative.

[Assistant] And Gwen, in the second assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I think because I had I thought I had started a pretty good project. Thought it was reasonably well pursued. But then out of it came these political problems. And it wasn't something I could cope with when I didn't have political power. And I didn't feel like trying to start another type of project. Frankly, I wasn't sure what else start at the time. At that time I was just beginning to get frustrated with the whole program.

[Assistant] But not willing to say, let's go home.

[User] No, no, I wouldn't have said that. And but as it ends up, I didn't find another substitute project that was a good alternative.

[Assistant] And Gwen, in the second assignment?

[User] Still working with teachers, still found teachers to work with. But this other guy did have high school teachers that he was working with. And she was able to work with some of the other teachers.

[Assistant] On a side topic, do you recall any point in the two years encountering much anti-American feelings against you personally?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, I wouldn't have said that. And but as it ends up, I didn't find another substitute project that was a good alternative.

[Assistant] And Gwen, in the second assignment?

[User] Still working with teachers, still found teachers to work with. But this other guy did have high school teachers that he was working with. And she was able to work with some of the other teachers.

[Assistant] On a side topic, do you recall any point in the two years encountering much anti-American feelings against you personally?

[User] Well, somewhat. I mean, we were from Texas. We had lived in Houston. My wife's from Dallas, but it was still fresh on everybody's mind. The assassination of Kennedy. Kennedy was a beloved figure because he was Catholic, but also because of his real pro-Latin relationships. And so there was there was some. Not really resentment, but they were leery of us, whether we were CIA operatives or what, but being from Texas, that added an element to it to them. They didn't, there wasn't out antagonism, but they questioned that. As far as anti-Americanism, just because we were Americans, yes, there was there was some skepticism as to whether we really were legitimate Peace Corps volunteers or something in the guise.

[Assistant] And that would reinforce the, you know, people opposing the farm project that you had worked on


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Still working with teachers, still found teachers to work with. But this other guy did have high school teachers that he was working with. And she was able to work with some of the other teachers.

[Assistant] On a side topic, do you recall any point in the two years encountering much anti-American feelings against you personally?

[User] Well, somewhat. I mean, we were from Texas. We had lived in Houston. My wife's from Dallas, but it was still fresh on everybody's mind. The assassination of Kennedy. Kennedy was a beloved figure because he was Catholic, but also because of his real pro-Latin relationships. And so there was there was some. Not really resentment, but they were leery of us, whether we were CIA operatives or what, but being from Texas, that added an element to it to them. They didn't, there wasn't out antagonism, but they questioned that. As far as anti-Americanism, just because we were Americans, yes, there was there was some skepticism as to whether we really were legitimate Peace Corps volunteers or something in the guise.

[Assistant] And that would reinforce the, you know, people opposing the farm project that you had worked on

[User] Could have.

[Assistant] But you don’t know for sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, somewhat. I mean, we were from Texas. We had lived in Houston. My wife's from Dallas, but it was still fresh on everybody's mind. The assassination of Kennedy. Kennedy was a beloved figure because he was Catholic, but also because of his real pro-Latin relationships. And so there was there was some. Not really resentment, but they were leery of us, whether we were CIA operatives or what, but being from Texas, that added an element to it to them. They didn't, there wasn't out antagonism, but they questioned that. As far as anti-Americanism, just because we were Americans, yes, there was there was some skepticism as to whether we really were legitimate Peace Corps volunteers or something in the guise.

[Assistant] And that would reinforce the, you know, people opposing the farm project that you had worked on

[User] Could have.

[Assistant] But you don’t know for sure.

[User] No, I don't. Some of that just could have been somewhat some jealousy also.

[Assistant] So as you come into the end of the second year and your tour’s over. What’s your sense of, was it worth the two of you being there and, you know, could you match up some feeling of accomplishment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Could have.

[Assistant] But you don’t know for sure.

[User] No, I don't. Some of that just could have been somewhat some jealousy also.

[Assistant] So as you come into the end of the second year and your tour’s over. What’s your sense of, was it worth the two of you being there and, you know, could you match up some feeling of accomplishment?

[User] Yeah, we could. I was, I had mixed feelings, anger and frustration. By then, I had gotten angry about the war, even more so. Angry about, but I don't actually bother chronologically put it together as to whether Martin Luther King had been assassinated. There was a series of excruciating events. Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, of course John Kennedy. I mean, the deaths in Vietnam, at that point were just increasingly horrible.

[Assistant] So leaving then what was your plan?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't. Some of that just could have been somewhat some jealousy also.

[Assistant] So as you come into the end of the second year and your tour’s over. What’s your sense of, was it worth the two of you being there and, you know, could you match up some feeling of accomplishment?

[User] Yeah, we could. I was, I had mixed feelings, anger and frustration. By then, I had gotten angry about the war, even more so. Angry about, but I don't actually bother chronologically put it together as to whether Martin Luther King had been assassinated. There was a series of excruciating events. Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, of course John Kennedy. I mean, the deaths in Vietnam, at that point were just increasingly horrible.

[Assistant] So leaving then what was your plan?

[User] Leaving Brazil? Well, we missed the States and were eager to get back.

[Assistant] But you didn't backpack it up the peninsula.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we could. I was, I had mixed feelings, anger and frustration. By then, I had gotten angry about the war, even more so. Angry about, but I don't actually bother chronologically put it together as to whether Martin Luther King had been assassinated. There was a series of excruciating events. Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, of course John Kennedy. I mean, the deaths in Vietnam, at that point were just increasingly horrible.

[Assistant] So leaving then what was your plan?

[User] Leaving Brazil? Well, we missed the States and were eager to get back.

[Assistant] But you didn't backpack it up the peninsula.

[User] In fact, we when we left, we flew down to Uruguay, Montevideo, then on to Buenos Aires and then flew on back. Almost, we debated about stopping in Mexico City but we didn’t. Yeah, but we were kind of eager to get that.

[Assistant] You recall your reaction coming back together. You came back to Houston or Dallas?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Leaving Brazil? Well, we missed the States and were eager to get back.

[Assistant] But you didn't backpack it up the peninsula.

[User] In fact, we when we left, we flew down to Uruguay, Montevideo, then on to Buenos Aires and then flew on back. Almost, we debated about stopping in Mexico City but we didn’t. Yeah, but we were kind of eager to get that.

[Assistant] You recall your reaction coming back together. You came back to Houston or Dallas?

[User] Yeah, yeah. We came back to Dallas. We decided to try Dallas. I was going to shift gears. I had gotten my business administration degree. I really wanted to get into something more liberal arts. I took some philosophy courses and took a political science course and I envisioned maybe getting involved with science.

[Assistant] This is when you after you came back.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In fact, we when we left, we flew down to Uruguay, Montevideo, then on to Buenos Aires and then flew on back. Almost, we debated about stopping in Mexico City but we didn’t. Yeah, but we were kind of eager to get that.

[Assistant] You recall your reaction coming back together. You came back to Houston or Dallas?

[User] Yeah, yeah. We came back to Dallas. We decided to try Dallas. I was going to shift gears. I had gotten my business administration degree. I really wanted to get into something more liberal arts. I took some philosophy courses and took a political science course and I envisioned maybe getting involved with science.

[Assistant] This is when you after you came back.

[User] Yeah. You know, I just knew I wanted to do something different, I thought. Well, we found out that Gwen was pregnant with our twins. I immediately altered that course, I mean, I finished those courses as well, yeah, but they weren't going to lead to any gainful employment, so I took a job. But anyway, coming back here, we both felt really disjointed, disconnected with our peers, the ones that we left behind. We came back radically different people. We've never been radicals, but it had a significant altering effect on our outlook and who we what I think the kind of people we are and we found it difficult to adjust and slow for us to adjust. This was fortunate to had one. We slowly got back involved in some of the activities we've been involved in before, but uh, with a totally different outlook. We're grateful for that. But it certainly keeps you, well the lifeline. The people that we do have as friends. We just think it.

[Assistant] But I'm not sure this is something you want to get into, but have you stayed in touch with others in the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah. We came back to Dallas. We decided to try Dallas. I was going to shift gears. I had gotten my business administration degree. I really wanted to get into something more liberal arts. I took some philosophy courses and took a political science course and I envisioned maybe getting involved with science.

[Assistant] This is when you after you came back.

[User] Yeah. You know, I just knew I wanted to do something different, I thought. Well, we found out that Gwen was pregnant with our twins. I immediately altered that course, I mean, I finished those courses as well, yeah, but they weren't going to lead to any gainful employment, so I took a job. But anyway, coming back here, we both felt really disjointed, disconnected with our peers, the ones that we left behind. We came back radically different people. We've never been radicals, but it had a significant altering effect on our outlook and who we what I think the kind of people we are and we found it difficult to adjust and slow for us to adjust. This was fortunate to had one. We slowly got back involved in some of the activities we've been involved in before, but uh, with a totally different outlook. We're grateful for that. But it certainly keeps you, well the lifeline. The people that we do have as friends. We just think it.

[Assistant] But I'm not sure this is something you want to get into, but have you stayed in touch with others in the group?

[User] Yeah, we've served with what is through reunions.

[Assistant] Have you traveled back to Brazil?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. You know, I just knew I wanted to do something different, I thought. Well, we found out that Gwen was pregnant with our twins. I immediately altered that course, I mean, I finished those courses as well, yeah, but they weren't going to lead to any gainful employment, so I took a job. But anyway, coming back here, we both felt really disjointed, disconnected with our peers, the ones that we left behind. We came back radically different people. We've never been radicals, but it had a significant altering effect on our outlook and who we what I think the kind of people we are and we found it difficult to adjust and slow for us to adjust. This was fortunate to had one. We slowly got back involved in some of the activities we've been involved in before, but uh, with a totally different outlook. We're grateful for that. But it certainly keeps you, well the lifeline. The people that we do have as friends. We just think it.

[Assistant] But I'm not sure this is something you want to get into, but have you stayed in touch with others in the group?

[User] Yeah, we've served with what is through reunions.

[Assistant] Have you traveled back to Brazil?

[User] We have not.

[Assistant] I wouldn't see any high motivation to do so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, we've served with what is through reunions.

[Assistant] Have you traveled back to Brazil?

[User] We have not.

[Assistant] I wouldn't see any high motivation to do so.

[User] We did not, we have not.

[Assistant] One of the third purposes of the Peace Corps is that in coming back, you inform others about the Third World by your experience. Have you been able to do much of that? It can be very tough at times.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We have not.

[Assistant] I wouldn't see any high motivation to do so.

[User] We did not, we have not.

[Assistant] One of the third purposes of the Peace Corps is that in coming back, you inform others about the Third World by your experience. Have you been able to do much of that? It can be very tough at times.

[User] Yeah, no, I think that is expressed through our thoughts and our conversations with people. Just because I think that now colors our whole outlook on things. And I think it's I think it's communicated in very subtle but strong ways just in our thought process.

[Assistant] OK. Your whole life.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did not, we have not.

[Assistant] One of the third purposes of the Peace Corps is that in coming back, you inform others about the Third World by your experience. Have you been able to do much of that? It can be very tough at times.

[User] Yeah, no, I think that is expressed through our thoughts and our conversations with people. Just because I think that now colors our whole outlook on things. And I think it's I think it's communicated in very subtle but strong ways just in our thought process.

[Assistant] OK. Your whole life.

[User] But I don't go around doing speeches or talking to the Kiwanis or anything about it. I thought about it, but I haven't.

[Assistant] Anything else about the experience you'd like to mention?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I actually don't remember where I first heard of it. I mean, it was a popular program, was one of John Fitzgerald’s early initiatives. He made this promise and carried it out approximately on the first of the year in 2000, excuse me, 1962 it was.

[Assistant] OK. And what project were you invited to join? Can you tell us something about that?

[User] We were, I was asked. I was with the Heifer Project. Our administrator was the Heifer Project and it was suggested that this would be an appropriate vehicle for me because of my agricultural background. I had been raised on a farm, my parents and grandparents on both sides of my family were farmers and had much practical experience. I've been through the FFA Future Farmers of America program for each program, and my whole life revolved around agriculture at that point. So this is what they believed they needed for Bolivia.

[Assistant] Did you have a specific country in mind when you applied?

[User] No, I took the Spanish exam because I had a few months introductory Spanish in college and I think that was probably the reason I was selected for Bolivia. They just said, well, he’s had a little bit of Spanish, we’ll send him there.

[Assistant] Ok, OK. And did you do anything special once you found out you were going to go in the Peace Corps to get ready to go?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were, I was asked. I was with the Heifer Project. Our administrator was the Heifer Project and it was suggested that this would be an appropriate vehicle for me because of my agricultural background. I had been raised on a farm, my parents and grandparents on both sides of my family were farmers and had much practical experience. I've been through the FFA Future Farmers of America program for each program, and my whole life revolved around agriculture at that point. So this is what they believed they needed for Bolivia.

[Assistant] Did you have a specific country in mind when you applied?

[User] No, I took the Spanish exam because I had a few months introductory Spanish in college and I think that was probably the reason I was selected for Bolivia. They just said, well, he’s had a little bit of Spanish, we’ll send him there.

[Assistant] Ok, OK. And did you do anything special once you found out you were going to go in the Peace Corps to get ready to go?

[User] Well, they set oodles of instructions, you know. Packed so many blue jeans and packed chambray shirts and work boots and the list went on and on. So we were well, we were purportedly at least well prepared.

[Assistant] Ok, now let's talk about the training a little bit. Where did you do your training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That we spent about a month at the University of Mayaguez. It was actually a pleasant time. And again, it was mostly to acclimate us to speaking Spanish. And I must say that I didn't really conquer Spanish until after I got married. And, you know, Puerto Rico, everybody speaks English anyway, for the most part, and their variety of what I was going to say is once we got to Bolivia, they sent me to an area where no one spoke Spanish. So excellent government planning again.

[Assistant] So after Puerto Rico, then did you go to Bolivia or what happened?

[User] So we, they gave us. This is October. I was home for my birthday, which is October 12. We had two weeks leave to spend with our families before they shipped this overseas. And then we had airplane tickets. I know they should be through New York, but I had a short helicopter ride out to Newark to fly home, which I've never been in a helicopter before. That was a big adventure. And we reunited in Miami at the airport. And while we were waiting there, we got some mysterious notice that we were supposed to be in our room at a certain time on that night, and they turned the television on. Well lo and behold, it was President Kennedy announcing the Cuban Missile Crisis. So we had no idea what was happening. They sent somebody, an emissary, down from Washington to talk to our group. And he said, we are not going to send you overseas. We're going to take you someplace else because you are for the most part of conscription age. And we might need you to fight a war. This is what we were told. And they shipped it off to Brattleboro, Vermont, and we were there for approximately a month and the crisis subsided. Then we went to Bolivia.

[Assistant] So how was it being in Brattleboro, Vermont?

[User] For the most part, boring. This was our plan. We had no program as such.

[Assistant] All right. So, all right. When you first got to Bolivia, what did you think when you were coming into Bolivia?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Quechua.

[Assistant] Quechua?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So were you able to learn to communicate in there?

[User] No. I mean, that's one of the reasons my Spanish didn't get very good while I was there. My counterpart pretty much translated everything. And he wasn't a native speaker either.

[Assistant] So you had work time, you talked something about that. What did you do in your free time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So were you able to learn to communicate in there?

[User] No. I mean, that's one of the reasons my Spanish didn't get very good while I was there. My counterpart pretty much translated everything. And he wasn't a native speaker either.

[Assistant] So you had work time, you talked something about that. What did you do in your free time?

[User] Well, of course, the big thing was go on every weekend or every other weekend back to Cochabamba. Look up my buddies. We’d go down to the local shop, have an ice cream sundae or something like that. And that was pretty much rhetoric, recreation. But I did take a vacation. Three of us went to Lima, Peru. We traveled up to La Paz and took the steamer across Lake Titicaca to Juliaca in Peru. And from there, we took the train to Cusco. From Cusco, after we toured Cusco. I have many pretty pictures of that. I took many, many slides. We flew from there to Lima. Now this time, the airplanes were again, they were still prop planes. And the cabins were unpressurized. So we were we were flying probably 8,000 feet or higher and our oxygen consisted, they dropped these masks down out of the overhead compartment. We would place them on so we wouldn't be oxygen deprived. And that was that's the way we traveled back there.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. When you got to the end of the first year, was there any, were any notable events or anything that that happened, particularly that you remember? After you’ve been there a year and gotten adjusted and all that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But anyway, Claude was very worried about me because nobody knew where I was. It took me much longer than I expected and I ended up at the same place I started from back in Trinidad because there was a ferry boat there, riverboat, didn't have any motor, not a working motor. So we just sort of loaded a couple rafts with bananas and floated back down to Trinidad. And Claude called me into his office and said, Bill, he said, if you ever do anything like this, he said, I said, I'm going to send you home. OK. And of course, I never did.

[Assistant] Ok, well, what about, uh, did you have any health problems when you were there?

[User] Constant diarrhea.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's I mean, for a lot of people that was a problem, I know.

[User] Nothing major other than that constant. I went down to, when I left, I was weighing about 178, something like that. And I went down to 140 pounds within a year. I did go up the Sucre to participate in the United States building project up there. They had a project going on. I was sent up there for a month. I wasn't much help at all to be honest.

[Assistant] So you talked about the taking the trip to Lima. Was that the only time that you took, like a vacation or anything like that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Constant diarrhea.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's I mean, for a lot of people that was a problem, I know.

[User] Nothing major other than that constant. I went down to, when I left, I was weighing about 178, something like that. And I went down to 140 pounds within a year. I did go up the Sucre to participate in the United States building project up there. They had a project going on. I was sent up there for a month. I wasn't much help at all to be honest.

[Assistant] So you talked about the taking the trip to Lima. Was that the only time that you took, like a vacation or anything like that?

[User] Yes, it was.

[Assistant] How about did you have a relationship with the family that you were living with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Nothing major other than that constant. I went down to, when I left, I was weighing about 178, something like that. And I went down to 140 pounds within a year. I did go up the Sucre to participate in the United States building project up there. They had a project going on. I was sent up there for a month. I wasn't much help at all to be honest.

[Assistant] So you talked about the taking the trip to Lima. Was that the only time that you took, like a vacation or anything like that?

[User] Yes, it was.

[Assistant] How about did you have a relationship with the family that you were living with?

[User] Yeah, I stayed with my counterparts, the title was counterparts. He had a degree and was working as an agricultural extension agent in the village of Arani. And I participated with him and worked as a sort of a junior. I mean, they did label me as an agricultural extension agent. So I speak, you know, I talk about the animals, but we did a lot of demonstrations on cultivating what we would call crops here. Of course, this is the home of the potato. And we would go out and look at crops and give advice, spray chemicals, how to keep disease under control. I work with kids on planters, you know, planting vegetables, onions. I remember we had very good success with this one kid. He raised a very good crop and then he would bundle them up and get on a train or the trucks. The major transport was trucks, you’d crawl in the back of the truck. And for a few pesos, you could ride to the village and I traveled that way many times to and there was busses, bus services again. The only difference between that and the truck was you got to sit down maybe. Yes. But he would bundle in big bundles and put it on top of the truck or the bus and take it to the open air market in Cochabamba. He sold them and for him was very huge success. But other crops also.

[Assistant] Were you ever able to follow any of those kids that you worked with?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was.

[Assistant] How about did you have a relationship with the family that you were living with?

[User] Yeah, I stayed with my counterparts, the title was counterparts. He had a degree and was working as an agricultural extension agent in the village of Arani. And I participated with him and worked as a sort of a junior. I mean, they did label me as an agricultural extension agent. So I speak, you know, I talk about the animals, but we did a lot of demonstrations on cultivating what we would call crops here. Of course, this is the home of the potato. And we would go out and look at crops and give advice, spray chemicals, how to keep disease under control. I work with kids on planters, you know, planting vegetables, onions. I remember we had very good success with this one kid. He raised a very good crop and then he would bundle them up and get on a train or the trucks. The major transport was trucks, you’d crawl in the back of the truck. And for a few pesos, you could ride to the village and I traveled that way many times to and there was busses, bus services again. The only difference between that and the truck was you got to sit down maybe. Yes. But he would bundle in big bundles and put it on top of the truck or the bus and take it to the open air market in Cochabamba. He sold them and for him was very huge success. But other crops also.

[Assistant] Were you ever able to follow any of those kids that you worked with?

[User] No, I went back approximately four years later. I went out to the village, and at that time there was an American construction crew building a pipeline, oil pipeline, from Santa Cruz up across the Andes. And I talked to a couple of them, but everything had been disrupted.

[Assistant] Ok, so when you got to the end of your tour, what did you think about what you had done there? Did you feel like it was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I went back approximately four years later. I went out to the village, and at that time there was an American construction crew building a pipeline, oil pipeline, from Santa Cruz up across the Andes. And I talked to a couple of them, but everything had been disrupted.

[Assistant] Ok, so when you got to the end of your tour, what did you think about what you had done there? Did you feel like it was?

[User] Well, the honest truth is, of course, in many of these situations, particularly in mine, I just felt that I had received much more out of the experience than I was able to give yet. I look back and add up all the things that I did do, and I think I did a considerable amount of good also. Improved agricultural practice and working with youth. The population, the native population, is very insular. It's very hard to break through.

[Assistant] So did you feel like you were able to break through that, after time?

[User] Yes, somewhat.

[Assistant] Yes, it's kind of difficult trying to be an insider when you're really an outsider.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, the honest truth is, of course, in many of these situations, particularly in mine, I just felt that I had received much more out of the experience than I was able to give yet. I look back and add up all the things that I did do, and I think I did a considerable amount of good also. Improved agricultural practice and working with youth. The population, the native population, is very insular. It's very hard to break through.

[Assistant] So did you feel like you were able to break through that, after time?

[User] Yes, somewhat.

[Assistant] Yes, it's kind of difficult trying to be an insider when you're really an outsider.

[User] Yeah. In Queche, you know, being in a situation like that, you do pick up some of the language a little bit. And I found out my nickname was the Red Man because I would tend to blush easily.

[Assistant] And they probably enjoyed making you do that. So if you had it to do over again, would you have done anything differently?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, somewhat.

[Assistant] Yes, it's kind of difficult trying to be an insider when you're really an outsider.

[User] Yeah. In Queche, you know, being in a situation like that, you do pick up some of the language a little bit. And I found out my nickname was the Red Man because I would tend to blush easily.

[Assistant] And they probably enjoyed making you do that. So if you had it to do over again, would you have done anything differently?

[User] No, but it fundamentally changed my life, that experience.

[Assistant] How did it change your life?