[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. Yes.

[Assistant] Did you find the press at that time informed before they were asking the questions because they had read your press kits? Did you find the materials that you had given them—

[User] I found that varied a great deal among whoever the member of the press was. Some were very bright and some were not so bright.

[Assistant] I can imagine. When you got ready to do the commentary, did you have to do a great deal of studying on your own before that time?

[User] Yes, I did. I’ll tell you what we mainly, or what I did, and I guess the other commentators did it as well, is I would go into simulations with the flight control team, which I found very useful, particularly in the launch abort simulations, which I suppose they still do, but, gosh, I don’t know. I’ve been away so long.

[Assistant] Were you there as an observer during the simulations or did you simply practice your commentary?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I found that varied a great deal among whoever the member of the press was. Some were very bright and some were not so bright.

[Assistant] I can imagine. When you got ready to do the commentary, did you have to do a great deal of studying on your own before that time?

[User] Yes, I did. I’ll tell you what we mainly, or what I did, and I guess the other commentators did it as well, is I would go into simulations with the flight control team, which I found very useful, particularly in the launch abort simulations, which I suppose they still do, but, gosh, I don’t know. I’ve been away so long.

[Assistant] Were you there as an observer during the simulations or did you simply practice your commentary?

[User] No, you practiced. Yes, I practiced.

[Assistant] I know that in simulations they have debriefings, so were you also part of debriefings?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I did. I’ll tell you what we mainly, or what I did, and I guess the other commentators did it as well, is I would go into simulations with the flight control team, which I found very useful, particularly in the launch abort simulations, which I suppose they still do, but, gosh, I don’t know. I’ve been away so long.

[Assistant] Were you there as an observer during the simulations or did you simply practice your commentary?

[User] No, you practiced. Yes, I practiced.

[Assistant] I know that in simulations they have debriefings, so were you also part of debriefings?

[User] Well, I was not part of the debriefing where they said, “Hey, you screwed up.” Because they didn’t really pay that much attention to you. They let you do your own thing quietly, and that’s what I tried to do.

[Assistant] Did you find a lot of differences on how your job was affected when the off-site news center was moved on to Building 2? Was it better for your department to be on the Manned Spacecraft Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, you practiced. Yes, I practiced.

[Assistant] I know that in simulations they have debriefings, so were you also part of debriefings?

[User] Well, I was not part of the debriefing where they said, “Hey, you screwed up.” Because they didn’t really pay that much attention to you. They let you do your own thing quietly, and that’s what I tried to do.

[Assistant] Did you find a lot of differences on how your job was affected when the off-site news center was moved on to Building 2? Was it better for your department to be on the Manned Spacecraft Center?

[User] Yes, I think it was. I think it was once we finally moved on to the Center. It made it much easier, I think.

[Assistant] During Gemini IV, of course [Edward H.] Ed White [II] did the first U.S. space walk, such a momentous time for everyone.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I was not part of the debriefing where they said, “Hey, you screwed up.” Because they didn’t really pay that much attention to you. They let you do your own thing quietly, and that’s what I tried to do.

[Assistant] Did you find a lot of differences on how your job was affected when the off-site news center was moved on to Building 2? Was it better for your department to be on the Manned Spacecraft Center?

[User] Yes, I think it was. I think it was once we finally moved on to the Center. It made it much easier, I think.

[Assistant] During Gemini IV, of course [Edward H.] Ed White [II] did the first U.S. space walk, such a momentous time for everyone.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What types of information were you able to give to the press, again, before and during and after that mission that explained? Because it was added somewhat at the last moment to do that. Were you put into the position of not having that material ready, or did you feel prepared?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I think it was. I think it was once we finally moved on to the Center. It made it much easier, I think.

[Assistant] During Gemini IV, of course [Edward H.] Ed White [II] did the first U.S. space walk, such a momentous time for everyone.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What types of information were you able to give to the press, again, before and during and after that mission that explained? Because it was added somewhat at the last moment to do that. Were you put into the position of not having that material ready, or did you feel prepared?

[User] I honestly don’t recall for sure if we were ready or not. I know it was kind of a last-minute deal. I think Dr. [Charles A.] Chuck Berry had something to do with it. I think you’ve probably interviewed him.

[Assistant] Yes, we have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What types of information were you able to give to the press, again, before and during and after that mission that explained? Because it was added somewhat at the last moment to do that. Were you put into the position of not having that material ready, or did you feel prepared?

[User] I honestly don’t recall for sure if we were ready or not. I know it was kind of a last-minute deal. I think Dr. [Charles A.] Chuck Berry had something to do with it. I think you’ve probably interviewed him.

[Assistant] Yes, we have.

[User] But I think he tended to be a fairly talkative guy.

[Assistant] Once the Apollo missions began, you were still, though, doing Gemini, because the Apollo unmanned missions were starting and the Gemini Program was still going. Did you find your staff stretched of trying to handle both those programs?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I honestly don’t recall for sure if we were ready or not. I know it was kind of a last-minute deal. I think Dr. [Charles A.] Chuck Berry had something to do with it. I think you’ve probably interviewed him.

[Assistant] Yes, we have.

[User] But I think he tended to be a fairly talkative guy.

[Assistant] Once the Apollo missions began, you were still, though, doing Gemini, because the Apollo unmanned missions were starting and the Gemini Program was still going. Did you find your staff stretched of trying to handle both those programs?

[User] No, I don’t think so. I don’t think we felt stretched that much. I’m trying to recall that. We had some unmanned Apollos. In fact, I became involved in one of the commentaries on an unmanned. It was Apollo—not 4, not the first one, which went very well, but this one everything kind of went to hell. It was Apollo—I want to say 6, 7.\n\n But in any case, they were going to have a high-altitude abort or something and it became a low-altitude, and everything kind of went wrong. I remember sitting next to Chris Kraft, who said something like—they moved the ship, and Kraft said something like, “Well, sometimes it doesn’t pay to do anything. You just might as well leave things as they are,” and which was kind of interesting. I think it was maybe one of his philosophies.

[Assistant] During the mid-sixties when this was all going on, some of the members of the astronaut corps died in various accidents.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But I think he tended to be a fairly talkative guy.

[Assistant] Once the Apollo missions began, you were still, though, doing Gemini, because the Apollo unmanned missions were starting and the Gemini Program was still going. Did you find your staff stretched of trying to handle both those programs?

[User] No, I don’t think so. I don’t think we felt stretched that much. I’m trying to recall that. We had some unmanned Apollos. In fact, I became involved in one of the commentaries on an unmanned. It was Apollo—not 4, not the first one, which went very well, but this one everything kind of went to hell. It was Apollo—I want to say 6, 7.\n\n But in any case, they were going to have a high-altitude abort or something and it became a low-altitude, and everything kind of went wrong. I remember sitting next to Chris Kraft, who said something like—they moved the ship, and Kraft said something like, “Well, sometimes it doesn’t pay to do anything. You just might as well leave things as they are,” and which was kind of interesting. I think it was maybe one of his philosophies.

[Assistant] During the mid-sixties when this was all going on, some of the members of the astronaut corps died in various accidents.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did your office handle those situations, and how were you involved in handling those?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don’t think so. I don’t think we felt stretched that much. I’m trying to recall that. We had some unmanned Apollos. In fact, I became involved in one of the commentaries on an unmanned. It was Apollo—not 4, not the first one, which went very well, but this one everything kind of went to hell. It was Apollo—I want to say 6, 7.\n\n But in any case, they were going to have a high-altitude abort or something and it became a low-altitude, and everything kind of went wrong. I remember sitting next to Chris Kraft, who said something like—they moved the ship, and Kraft said something like, “Well, sometimes it doesn’t pay to do anything. You just might as well leave things as they are,” and which was kind of interesting. I think it was maybe one of his philosophies.

[Assistant] During the mid-sixties when this was all going on, some of the members of the astronaut corps died in various accidents.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did your office handle those situations, and how were you involved in handling those?

[User] Well, I recall very well the Elliott [M.] See [Jr.]-[Charles A.] Charlie Bassett [II] accident and also the Apollo 1 fire. As a matter of fact, the Apollo 1 fire, I ended up at [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom’s house, which was a terrible assignment, but somebody needed to be there to deal with the press, and I guess I was the guy who was there.\n\n Then in Elliott See’s case, I guess I was at the Elliott See house. That was a fellow named Charlie Basset was with him.

[Assistant] Did you find the press to be receptive of the mood of NASA, or did you find them wanting to be extremely inquisitive and looking for information that you were having to somewhat hold in privacy at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did your office handle those situations, and how were you involved in handling those?

[User] Well, I recall very well the Elliott [M.] See [Jr.]-[Charles A.] Charlie Bassett [II] accident and also the Apollo 1 fire. As a matter of fact, the Apollo 1 fire, I ended up at [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom’s house, which was a terrible assignment, but somebody needed to be there to deal with the press, and I guess I was the guy who was there.\n\n Then in Elliott See’s case, I guess I was at the Elliott See house. That was a fellow named Charlie Basset was with him.

[Assistant] Did you find the press to be receptive of the mood of NASA, or did you find them wanting to be extremely inquisitive and looking for information that you were having to somewhat hold in privacy at that time?

[User] It varied. It varied, again, depending on which member of the press you were dealing with.

[Assistant] It was a difficult time for you professionally?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I recall very well the Elliott [M.] See [Jr.]-[Charles A.] Charlie Bassett [II] accident and also the Apollo 1 fire. As a matter of fact, the Apollo 1 fire, I ended up at [Virgil I. “Gus”] Grissom’s house, which was a terrible assignment, but somebody needed to be there to deal with the press, and I guess I was the guy who was there.\n\n Then in Elliott See’s case, I guess I was at the Elliott See house. That was a fellow named Charlie Basset was with him.

[Assistant] Did you find the press to be receptive of the mood of NASA, or did you find them wanting to be extremely inquisitive and looking for information that you were having to somewhat hold in privacy at that time?

[User] It varied. It varied, again, depending on which member of the press you were dealing with.

[Assistant] It was a difficult time for you professionally?

[User] Yes, it was. Yes. It’s not a lot of fun to be at somebody’s house whose husband was just killed.

[Assistant] There certainly wasn’t a precedent for it at that time, either.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It varied. It varied, again, depending on which member of the press you were dealing with.

[Assistant] It was a difficult time for you professionally?

[User] Yes, it was. Yes. It’s not a lot of fun to be at somebody’s house whose husband was just killed.

[Assistant] There certainly wasn’t a precedent for it at that time, either.

[User] No. No. Now, I recall I was not involved in that one somehow when [Theodore C. ] Freeman was killed. I think a fellow named [James] Jim Shefter showed up at somebody’s house and told his wife, which became a very unsettling thing. I know some of the astronauts held it very much against him for a long time. But Shefter, I think he may have recently died, Jim Shefter.

[Assistant] Yes, he did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was. Yes. It’s not a lot of fun to be at somebody’s house whose husband was just killed.

[Assistant] There certainly wasn’t a precedent for it at that time, either.

[User] No. No. Now, I recall I was not involved in that one somehow when [Theodore C. ] Freeman was killed. I think a fellow named [James] Jim Shefter showed up at somebody’s house and told his wife, which became a very unsettling thing. I know some of the astronauts held it very much against him for a long time. But Shefter, I think he may have recently died, Jim Shefter.

[Assistant] Yes, he did.

[User] Oh, you knew that?

[Assistant] I knew that he had passed away. Because of that incident from him, did any of your policies or guidelines from your office change in how you handled these incidents?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No. Now, I recall I was not involved in that one somehow when [Theodore C. ] Freeman was killed. I think a fellow named [James] Jim Shefter showed up at somebody’s house and told his wife, which became a very unsettling thing. I know some of the astronauts held it very much against him for a long time. But Shefter, I think he may have recently died, Jim Shefter.

[Assistant] Yes, he did.

[User] Oh, you knew that?

[Assistant] I knew that he had passed away. Because of that incident from him, did any of your policies or guidelines from your office change in how you handled these incidents?

[User] No, I don’t think it changed. In the case of Shefter, it was more of probably a misstep on his part and it was probably not appropriate to have him show up at the house and say, “Well, he’s gone,” but I think he may have had some pressure from the\n\n Houston Chronicle\n\n , a fellow named Dan Cobb, city editor at the time.

[Assistant] After those incidents, as well as the Apollo 1 fire, especially after the Apollo 1 fire, was there anything different that the Public Affairs changed in order to release information because of that incident, because of the accident?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, you knew that?

[Assistant] I knew that he had passed away. Because of that incident from him, did any of your policies or guidelines from your office change in how you handled these incidents?

[User] No, I don’t think it changed. In the case of Shefter, it was more of probably a misstep on his part and it was probably not appropriate to have him show up at the house and say, “Well, he’s gone,” but I think he may have had some pressure from the\n\n Houston Chronicle\n\n , a fellow named Dan Cobb, city editor at the time.

[Assistant] After those incidents, as well as the Apollo 1 fire, especially after the Apollo 1 fire, was there anything different that the Public Affairs changed in order to release information because of that incident, because of the accident?

[User] Well, I think things became much more unwieldy in the post-Apollo 1 fire accident because they had a big protocol set up—I guess it was more with the Program Office—that you had to clear answers through them, and it became very unwieldy. That went on for a period of time, but over the long haul, I guess things worked out.

[Assistant] Did that make your job more difficult?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don’t think it changed. In the case of Shefter, it was more of probably a misstep on his part and it was probably not appropriate to have him show up at the house and say, “Well, he’s gone,” but I think he may have had some pressure from the\n\n Houston Chronicle\n\n , a fellow named Dan Cobb, city editor at the time.

[Assistant] After those incidents, as well as the Apollo 1 fire, especially after the Apollo 1 fire, was there anything different that the Public Affairs changed in order to release information because of that incident, because of the accident?

[User] Well, I think things became much more unwieldy in the post-Apollo 1 fire accident because they had a big protocol set up—I guess it was more with the Program Office—that you had to clear answers through them, and it became very unwieldy. That went on for a period of time, but over the long haul, I guess things worked out.

[Assistant] Did that make your job more difficult?

[User] Yes, it would make it a bit more difficult, I think.

[Assistant] Several weeks before the Apollo 10 flight, there was a change in management when Brian Duff replaced Paul Haney. Did you find a great deal of changes occurred within your office with that change of management?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think things became much more unwieldy in the post-Apollo 1 fire accident because they had a big protocol set up—I guess it was more with the Program Office—that you had to clear answers through them, and it became very unwieldy. That went on for a period of time, but over the long haul, I guess things worked out.

[Assistant] Did that make your job more difficult?

[User] Yes, it would make it a bit more difficult, I think.

[Assistant] Several weeks before the Apollo 10 flight, there was a change in management when Brian Duff replaced Paul Haney. Did you find a great deal of changes occurred within your office with that change of management?

[User] Yes, there was a fair amount. Duff is a very charming, very dapper, delightful guy. He’s different. His style is very different from Haney. So, yes, I would say there was certainly a change. I guess Duff has passed on, too, by the way.

[Assistant] Yes, he has.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it would make it a bit more difficult, I think.

[Assistant] Several weeks before the Apollo 10 flight, there was a change in management when Brian Duff replaced Paul Haney. Did you find a great deal of changes occurred within your office with that change of management?

[User] Yes, there was a fair amount. Duff is a very charming, very dapper, delightful guy. He’s different. His style is very different from Haney. So, yes, I would say there was certainly a change. I guess Duff has passed on, too, by the way.

[Assistant] Yes, he has.

[User] But, yes, he was in an interesting guy, Brian Duff. But so was Haney.

[Assistant] Did your role change with the new management, or job duties increased during that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But, yes, he was in an interesting guy, Brian Duff. But so was Haney.

[Assistant] Did your role change with the new management, or job duties increased during that time?

[User] You say did it change?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Yes, I guess maybe it changed some, but I’m not sure I could pinpoint any particular way that it changed.

[Assistant] It almost sounds like your job continually evolved and grew.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You say did it change?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Yes, I guess maybe it changed some, but I’m not sure I could pinpoint any particular way that it changed.

[Assistant] It almost sounds like your job continually evolved and grew.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that one way that you would describe the first ten years or so?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I guess maybe it changed some, but I’m not sure I could pinpoint any particular way that it changed.

[Assistant] It almost sounds like your job continually evolved and grew.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that one way that you would describe the first ten years or so?

[User] It evolved and grew, yes. Well, I would say it became kind of different. I had a fair amount of independence as far as the job. I ran that office for sixteen years, and that was a long time.

[Assistant] There were always situations, I’m sure, that got your attention. One of the ones that we were looking at was that on Apollo 10, Eugene [A.] Cernan decided to utter a word that most people don’t normally hear come out of astronauts’ mouths.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Is that one way that you would describe the first ten years or so?

[User] It evolved and grew, yes. Well, I would say it became kind of different. I had a fair amount of independence as far as the job. I ran that office for sixteen years, and that was a long time.

[Assistant] There were always situations, I’m sure, that got your attention. One of the ones that we were looking at was that on Apollo 10, Eugene [A.] Cernan decided to utter a word that most people don’t normally hear come out of astronauts’ mouths.

[User] Yes. Yes, I remember that. [Laughs]

[Assistant] I was wondering how Public Affairs addressed that situation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It evolved and grew, yes. Well, I would say it became kind of different. I had a fair amount of independence as far as the job. I ran that office for sixteen years, and that was a long time.

[Assistant] There were always situations, I’m sure, that got your attention. One of the ones that we were looking at was that on Apollo 10, Eugene [A.] Cernan decided to utter a word that most people don’t normally hear come out of astronauts’ mouths.

[User] Yes. Yes, I remember that. [Laughs]

[Assistant] I was wondering how Public Affairs addressed that situation.

[User] Well, you put it out in the transcript verbatim, and that’s what we did. I’m glad we did it, in retrospect.

[Assistant] Did you have any after effects of that from the press? Did they want to know more information, or did the transcript serve all the purpose that needed to be served?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes, I remember that. [Laughs]

[Assistant] I was wondering how Public Affairs addressed that situation.

[User] Well, you put it out in the transcript verbatim, and that’s what we did. I’m glad we did it, in retrospect.

[Assistant] Did you have any after effects of that from the press? Did they want to know more information, or did the transcript serve all the purpose that needed to be served?

[User] I think the transcript pretty much handled it.

[Assistant] Any public reaction that you got in your office?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you put it out in the transcript verbatim, and that’s what we did. I’m glad we did it, in retrospect.

[Assistant] Did you have any after effects of that from the press? Did they want to know more information, or did the transcript serve all the purpose that needed to be served?

[User] I think the transcript pretty much handled it.

[Assistant] Any public reaction that you got in your office?

[User] It seems to me there was some. There was some little old ladies that would call up and give you hell about something like that guy would just take advantage of me and that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Well, of course after Apollo 10, Apollo 11 was scheduled. As you mentioned a little earlier in our conversation, things changed as far as the Public Affairs Office because you just had so many more press personnel that you had to deal with. Could you elaborate on that and tell us how your job and just the whole Public Affairs arena began to change a little bit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think the transcript pretty much handled it.

[Assistant] Any public reaction that you got in your office?

[User] It seems to me there was some. There was some little old ladies that would call up and give you hell about something like that guy would just take advantage of me and that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Well, of course after Apollo 10, Apollo 11 was scheduled. As you mentioned a little earlier in our conversation, things changed as far as the Public Affairs Office because you just had so many more press personnel that you had to deal with. Could you elaborate on that and tell us how your job and just the whole Public Affairs arena began to change a little bit?

[User] Well, with the Apollo 11, there was just so many press there that, as I recall, we even had tents outside that had been set up to cover some of the press. We had begun to use that lobby area right across from where our offices were. I would say that there were also tents that were set up that were used also.

[Assistant] Did they arrive earlier than they had ever arrived before for this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, with the Apollo 11, there was just so many press there that, as I recall, we even had tents outside that had been set up to cover some of the press. We had begun to use that lobby area right across from where our offices were. I would say that there were also tents that were set up that were used also.

[Assistant] Did they arrive earlier than they had ever arrived before for this?

[User] The press?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] I’m not so sure I recall them arriving that much earlier. I just recall there was a lot of them.

[Assistant] A lot more?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The press?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] I’m not so sure I recall them arriving that much earlier. I just recall there was a lot of them.

[Assistant] A lot more?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] From all over the world?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’m not so sure I recall them arriving that much earlier. I just recall there was a lot of them.

[Assistant] A lot more?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] From all over the world?

[User] Yes, pretty much. Pretty much all over the world. We had the BBC and the—you name them. They were there from—of course we had ended up with the Japanese, I think, for some of the earlier missions. Of course, you also had the Velcro [Industries B.V.] and the Fisher pen [Fisher Space Pen Co.] people. They became very active as promoters.

[Assistant] How did that work? Could you share with us some information about that, how they promoted it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] From all over the world?

[User] Yes, pretty much. Pretty much all over the world. We had the BBC and the—you name them. They were there from—of course we had ended up with the Japanese, I think, for some of the earlier missions. Of course, you also had the Velcro [Industries B.V.] and the Fisher pen [Fisher Space Pen Co.] people. They became very active as promoters.

[Assistant] How did that work? Could you share with us some information about that, how they promoted it?

[User] Yes. They tended to put out little news releases and so on, and it worked pretty well. I know Paul [C.] Fisher, who I think is still alive and still runs the company.

[Assistant] Was he there, or did he send a representative?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. They tended to put out little news releases and so on, and it worked pretty well. I know Paul [C.] Fisher, who I think is still alive and still runs the company.

[Assistant] Was he there, or did he send a representative?

[User] Well, he would show up himself.

[Assistant] Would he?

[User] Yes. Yes, he would show up himself. He’s the guy who once ran for president, I think, for the United States.

[Assistant] Sounds like an interesting gentleman.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, he would show up himself.

[Assistant] Would he?

[User] Yes. Yes, he would show up himself. He’s the guy who once ran for president, I think, for the United States.

[Assistant] Sounds like an interesting gentleman.

[User] Yes, he was and probably still is.

[Assistant] Was that another role that you served, working with these promoters of products that were being used on the missions?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes, he would show up himself. He’s the guy who once ran for president, I think, for the United States.

[Assistant] Sounds like an interesting gentleman.

[User] Yes, he was and probably still is.

[Assistant] Was that another role that you served, working with these promoters of products that were being used on the missions?

[User] Yes. In fact, I became very involved with the General Foods’[Corporation] Tang [orange drink mix] people, which was kind of interesting because they did very well, as you know, as far as promoting Tang. I think people tended to think that Tang was just a byproduct of the space program. But I dealt mainly with their ad agency. I’m trying to recall who that was. [Young & Rubicam, Inc.]. I’ll think of it.

[Assistant] Well, that was something a little bit different.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, he was and probably still is.

[Assistant] Was that another role that you served, working with these promoters of products that were being used on the missions?

[User] Yes. In fact, I became very involved with the General Foods’[Corporation] Tang [orange drink mix] people, which was kind of interesting because they did very well, as you know, as far as promoting Tang. I think people tended to think that Tang was just a byproduct of the space program. But I dealt mainly with their ad agency. I’m trying to recall who that was. [Young & Rubicam, Inc.]. I’ll think of it.

[Assistant] Well, that was something a little bit different.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Along with everything else that you had to do.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. In fact, I became very involved with the General Foods’[Corporation] Tang [orange drink mix] people, which was kind of interesting because they did very well, as you know, as far as promoting Tang. I think people tended to think that Tang was just a byproduct of the space program. But I dealt mainly with their ad agency. I’m trying to recall who that was. [Young & Rubicam, Inc.]. I’ll think of it.

[Assistant] Well, that was something a little bit different.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Along with everything else that you had to do.

[User] Yes, and it was a lot of fun.

[Assistant] Did they want to come on site to do their promotions or how did you work with those companies?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yes.

[Assistant] Along with everything else that you had to do.

[User] Yes, and it was a lot of fun.

[Assistant] Did they want to come on site to do their promotions or how did you work with those companies?

[User] It varied. In the case of Paul Fisher kind of people, he would show up on site, and he was kind of an operator. In the case of General Foods-Tang, I’m again trying to remember the name of the ad agency [Young & Rubicam] because that’s who we dealt with mainly, and they would send in their storyboards, and we would review them.

[Assistant] That really was something different from your everyday activity, then, wasn’t it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, and it was a lot of fun.

[Assistant] Did they want to come on site to do their promotions or how did you work with those companies?

[User] It varied. In the case of Paul Fisher kind of people, he would show up on site, and he was kind of an operator. In the case of General Foods-Tang, I’m again trying to remember the name of the ad agency [Young & Rubicam] because that’s who we dealt with mainly, and they would send in their storyboards, and we would review them.

[Assistant] That really was something different from your everyday activity, then, wasn’t it?

[User] Yes. Sure. Yes, it was. It was different. It was kind of fun, though.

[Assistant] Did you work with other departments, because Tang, being a commercial product, but yet it was going toward the food and nutrition area of the program, not necessarily Public Affairs, did you have to coordinate with these other departments as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It varied. In the case of Paul Fisher kind of people, he would show up on site, and he was kind of an operator. In the case of General Foods-Tang, I’m again trying to remember the name of the ad agency [Young & Rubicam] because that’s who we dealt with mainly, and they would send in their storyboards, and we would review them.

[Assistant] That really was something different from your everyday activity, then, wasn’t it?

[User] Yes. Sure. Yes, it was. It was different. It was kind of fun, though.

[Assistant] Did you work with other departments, because Tang, being a commercial product, but yet it was going toward the food and nutrition area of the program, not necessarily Public Affairs, did you have to coordinate with these other departments as well?

[User] Yes. We would normally send that out to the cognizant technical person to look over and review for technical accuracy.

[Assistant] Then it all came back to you to ship back to them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Sure. Yes, it was. It was different. It was kind of fun, though.

[Assistant] Did you work with other departments, because Tang, being a commercial product, but yet it was going toward the food and nutrition area of the program, not necessarily Public Affairs, did you have to coordinate with these other departments as well?

[User] Yes. We would normally send that out to the cognizant technical person to look over and review for technical accuracy.

[Assistant] Then it all came back to you to ship back to them?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Goodness. Like air traffic controlling out of our office, wasn’t it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We would normally send that out to the cognizant technical person to look over and review for technical accuracy.

[Assistant] Then it all came back to you to ship back to them?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Goodness. Like air traffic controlling out of our office, wasn’t it?

[User] Well, kind off.

[Assistant] Everybody filtered in and filtered out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Goodness. Like air traffic controlling out of our office, wasn’t it?

[User] Well, kind off.

[Assistant] Everybody filtered in and filtered out.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Where were you on Apollo 11? Tell us what was your role and what job you were doing at that time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, kind off.

[Assistant] Everybody filtered in and filtered out.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Where were you on Apollo 11? Tell us what was your role and what job you were doing at that time.

[User] Well, Apollo 11, I was several places. One, I did a little bit of commentary before I went into quarantine. I was at KSC [NASA Kennedy Space Center] for the pre-launch. I did not get that close to the launch, and then I caught an airplane back to Houston, I guess to get ready to be locked up, right after I had done a little bit of commentary.

[Assistant] Was this a commercial flight that you took back, or did you have an airplane that brought you back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Where were you on Apollo 11? Tell us what was your role and what job you were doing at that time.

[User] Well, Apollo 11, I was several places. One, I did a little bit of commentary before I went into quarantine. I was at KSC [NASA Kennedy Space Center] for the pre-launch. I did not get that close to the launch, and then I caught an airplane back to Houston, I guess to get ready to be locked up, right after I had done a little bit of commentary.

[Assistant] Was this a commercial flight that you took back, or did you have an airplane that brought you back?

[User] I’m trying to remember. I think it was commercial, but I wouldn’t swear to it.

[Assistant] I was thinking about that coordination again.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, Apollo 11, I was several places. One, I did a little bit of commentary before I went into quarantine. I was at KSC [NASA Kennedy Space Center] for the pre-launch. I did not get that close to the launch, and then I caught an airplane back to Houston, I guess to get ready to be locked up, right after I had done a little bit of commentary.

[Assistant] Was this a commercial flight that you took back, or did you have an airplane that brought you back?

[User] I’m trying to remember. I think it was commercial, but I wouldn’t swear to it.

[Assistant] I was thinking about that coordination again.

[User] Yes. Yes. Yes, I think it was.

[Assistant] So were you in quarantine waiting on the crew?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’m trying to remember. I think it was commercial, but I wouldn’t swear to it.

[Assistant] I was thinking about that coordination again.

[User] Yes. Yes. Yes, I think it was.

[Assistant] So were you in quarantine waiting on the crew?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You were there before they were?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes. Yes, I think it was.

[Assistant] So were you in quarantine waiting on the crew?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You were there before they were?

[User] We were there before they showed up.

[Assistant] Were you checking it all out for them?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You were there before they were?

[User] We were there before they showed up.

[Assistant] Were you checking it all out for them?

[User] Well, not exactly, but that was in, what, Building 37, I guess, was where they were located.

[Assistant] How were you selected to be the one to work with them in quarantine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were there before they showed up.

[Assistant] Were you checking it all out for them?

[User] Well, not exactly, but that was in, what, Building 37, I guess, was where they were located.

[Assistant] How were you selected to be the one to work with them in quarantine?

[User] Well, I’m not sure I know. But it turned out I enjoyed it after it was over, well after it was over. I didn’t look forward to it at the time.

[Assistant] How did your family feel about you being secluded for that amount of time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, not exactly, but that was in, what, Building 37, I guess, was where they were located.

[Assistant] How were you selected to be the one to work with them in quarantine?

[User] Well, I’m not sure I know. But it turned out I enjoyed it after it was over, well after it was over. I didn’t look forward to it at the time.

[Assistant] How did your family feel about you being secluded for that amount of time?

[User] Well, let’s see. It was a couple of weeks, I guess. Well, my wife would come out periodically and talk to me through the glass. That’s the way families did, I suppose.

[Assistant] Did you have any personal concerns about possible health issues?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I’m not sure I know. But it turned out I enjoyed it after it was over, well after it was over. I didn’t look forward to it at the time.

[Assistant] How did your family feel about you being secluded for that amount of time?

[User] Well, let’s see. It was a couple of weeks, I guess. Well, my wife would come out periodically and talk to me through the glass. That’s the way families did, I suppose.

[Assistant] Did you have any personal concerns about possible health issues?

[User] No, I didn’t really. As a matter of fact, I even tasted a little bit of Moon dust, just to say I’d done it.

[Assistant] Did you have a chance to watch the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and see everything, be a part of the actual activities before you went into quarantine, or were you into quarantine before Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, let’s see. It was a couple of weeks, I guess. Well, my wife would come out periodically and talk to me through the glass. That’s the way families did, I suppose.

[Assistant] Did you have any personal concerns about possible health issues?

[User] No, I didn’t really. As a matter of fact, I even tasted a little bit of Moon dust, just to say I’d done it.

[Assistant] Did you have a chance to watch the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and see everything, be a part of the actual activities before you went into quarantine, or were you into quarantine before Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

[User] No, we were in quarantine. Once they had landed, that’s when they said, “You get over there.” They figured, okay, time’s up, but you did see him on the Moon in quarantine.

[Assistant] Could you share with us some of the conversations that you had with the astronauts? You mentioned you had gone on geology field trips with them, so you weren’t strangers with them.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I didn’t really. As a matter of fact, I even tasted a little bit of Moon dust, just to say I’d done it.

[Assistant] Did you have a chance to watch the EVA [Extravehicular Activity] and see everything, be a part of the actual activities before you went into quarantine, or were you into quarantine before Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon?

[User] No, we were in quarantine. Once they had landed, that’s when they said, “You get over there.” They figured, okay, time’s up, but you did see him on the Moon in quarantine.

[Assistant] Could you share with us some of the conversations that you had with the astronauts? You mentioned you had gone on geology field trips with them, so you weren’t strangers with them.

[User] Oh, no. No.

[Assistant] You had a chance to spend time with them. Could you share with us some of their thoughts or maybe some of the questions that you might have asked them in order to prepare some of the releases and the reports that you issued from there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we were in quarantine. Once they had landed, that’s when they said, “You get over there.” They figured, okay, time’s up, but you did see him on the Moon in quarantine.

[Assistant] Could you share with us some of the conversations that you had with the astronauts? You mentioned you had gone on geology field trips with them, so you weren’t strangers with them.

[User] Oh, no. No.

[Assistant] You had a chance to spend time with them. Could you share with us some of their thoughts or maybe some of the questions that you might have asked them in order to prepare some of the releases and the reports that you issued from there?

[User] Well, I’m trying to recall. Yes, they were a very diverse and very different group of people themselves. Pete Conrad, who I guess now is dead, he had, what, a motorcycle accident?

[Assistant] Yes, he did.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, no. No.

[Assistant] You had a chance to spend time with them. Could you share with us some of their thoughts or maybe some of the questions that you might have asked them in order to prepare some of the releases and the reports that you issued from there?

[User] Well, I’m trying to recall. Yes, they were a very diverse and very different group of people themselves. Pete Conrad, who I guess now is dead, he had, what, a motorcycle accident?

[Assistant] Yes, he did.

[User] Of course, Armstrong was very quiet and very unassuming. In fact, he was an interesting guy to me, particularly in quarantine. It was kind of like he’d had had the world lifted off his shoulders, is the way you kind of sensed him as feeling. Then there was [Edwin E. “Buzz”] Aldrin, who was quite different at the time. In fact, I think Buzz became—I guess he’s officially named Buzz now.

[Assistant] That’s what I hear.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I’m trying to recall. Yes, they were a very diverse and very different group of people themselves. Pete Conrad, who I guess now is dead, he had, what, a motorcycle accident?

[Assistant] Yes, he did.

[User] Of course, Armstrong was very quiet and very unassuming. In fact, he was an interesting guy to me, particularly in quarantine. It was kind of like he’d had had the world lifted off his shoulders, is the way you kind of sensed him as feeling. Then there was [Edwin E. “Buzz”] Aldrin, who was quite different at the time. In fact, I think Buzz became—I guess he’s officially named Buzz now.

[Assistant] That’s what I hear.

[User] He was quite different. Buzz, I think never quite got over the fact that he was not the first man to set foot on the Moon but the second. [Michael] Collins was very different, because Collins, he never set foot on the Moon, and he was a very bright, intelligent guy who I was always impressed by.

[Assistant] Did you have a defined purpose or a defined mission as being part of that quarantine team?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Of course, Armstrong was very quiet and very unassuming. In fact, he was an interesting guy to me, particularly in quarantine. It was kind of like he’d had had the world lifted off his shoulders, is the way you kind of sensed him as feeling. Then there was [Edwin E. “Buzz”] Aldrin, who was quite different at the time. In fact, I think Buzz became—I guess he’s officially named Buzz now.

[Assistant] That’s what I hear.

[User] He was quite different. Buzz, I think never quite got over the fact that he was not the first man to set foot on the Moon but the second. [Michael] Collins was very different, because Collins, he never set foot on the Moon, and he was a very bright, intelligent guy who I was always impressed by.

[Assistant] Did you have a defined purpose or a defined mission as being part of that quarantine team?

[User] Yes. I was supposed to brief the press, which I tried to do, and I caught hell a time or two because they didn’t feel that you were telling them everything you should be telling them.

[Assistant] Were you in that position of trying to choose what to tell, or did you just didn’t have a lot?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was quite different. Buzz, I think never quite got over the fact that he was not the first man to set foot on the Moon but the second. [Michael] Collins was very different, because Collins, he never set foot on the Moon, and he was a very bright, intelligent guy who I was always impressed by.

[Assistant] Did you have a defined purpose or a defined mission as being part of that quarantine team?

[User] Yes. I was supposed to brief the press, which I tried to do, and I caught hell a time or two because they didn’t feel that you were telling them everything you should be telling them.

[Assistant] Were you in that position of trying to choose what to tell, or did you just didn’t have a lot?

[User] Well, no, I had a fair amount. I thought I was putting out more than maybe some of the press thought I was.

[Assistant] Was everything from you issued via print reports, or did you give broadcast or how did you handle that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I was supposed to brief the press, which I tried to do, and I caught hell a time or two because they didn’t feel that you were telling them everything you should be telling them.

[Assistant] Were you in that position of trying to choose what to tell, or did you just didn’t have a lot?

[User] Well, no, I had a fair amount. I thought I was putting out more than maybe some of the press thought I was.

[Assistant] Was everything from you issued via print reports, or did you give broadcast or how did you handle that?

[User] It was briefings. I would come in for, I guess, a briefing to the press. It was kind of like a little news conference.

[Assistant] So you came out of the quarantine area to do that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, no, I had a fair amount. I thought I was putting out more than maybe some of the press thought I was.

[Assistant] Was everything from you issued via print reports, or did you give broadcast or how did you handle that?

[User] It was briefings. I would come in for, I guess, a briefing to the press. It was kind of like a little news conference.

[Assistant] So you came out of the quarantine area to do that?

[User] No. Remember, that was all behind the glass.

[Assistant] So you just came so they could see you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was briefings. I would come in for, I guess, a briefing to the press. It was kind of like a little news conference.

[Assistant] So you came out of the quarantine area to do that?

[User] No. Remember, that was all behind the glass.

[Assistant] So you just came so they could see you?

[User] Yes, I came out, and they’d see you through the glass.

[Assistant] It’s pretty interesting. Was that a set time that you did that every day or just when you felt it was necessary?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I came out, and they’d see you through the glass.

[Assistant] It’s pretty interesting. Was that a set time that you did that every day or just when you felt it was necessary?

[User] I’m trying to recall. I’m not sure it was a set time, but we did it several times. Then there was—I guess I had a nice private room until a young lady named Heather Owens, I believe, got bounced into quarantine.

[Assistant] That’s different.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did that happen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’m trying to recall. I’m not sure it was a set time, but we did it several times. Then there was—I guess I had a nice private room until a young lady named Heather Owens, I believe, got bounced into quarantine.

[Assistant] That’s different.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did that happen?

[User] Well, she became contaminated some way. They were all dealing with these Moon rocks and that kind of thing, and so I lost my private room there in the last day or two, I suppose.

[Assistant] Did you get the couch? [Laughs]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did that happen?

[User] Well, she became contaminated some way. They were all dealing with these Moon rocks and that kind of thing, and so I lost my private room there in the last day or two, I suppose.

[Assistant] Did you get the couch? [Laughs]

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was your reaction of seeing Moon dust or knowing that you were with objects that came from the Moon?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, she became contaminated some way. They were all dealing with these Moon rocks and that kind of thing, and so I lost my private room there in the last day or two, I suppose.

[Assistant] Did you get the couch? [Laughs]

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was your reaction of seeing Moon dust or knowing that you were with objects that came from the Moon?

[User] Well, I found it interesting, the fact that—I just took a little thing and just said I might as well taste it and go out first class, if that’s what’s going to happen. Turns out it didn’t, obviously.

[Assistant] So I should ask you what Moon dust tastes like.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was your reaction of seeing Moon dust or knowing that you were with objects that came from the Moon?

[User] Well, I found it interesting, the fact that—I just took a little thing and just said I might as well taste it and go out first class, if that’s what’s going to happen. Turns out it didn’t, obviously.

[Assistant] So I should ask you what Moon dust tastes like.

[User] Well, you can. I’m not sure it—it was kind of tasteless, as I recall.

[Assistant] Tastes like Moon dust, huh? [Laughs]


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I found it interesting, the fact that—I just took a little thing and just said I might as well taste it and go out first class, if that’s what’s going to happen. Turns out it didn’t, obviously.

[Assistant] So I should ask you what Moon dust tastes like.

[User] Well, you can. I’m not sure it—it was kind of tasteless, as I recall.

[Assistant] Tastes like Moon dust, huh? [Laughs]

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That must have been a very special time in your life to know that you were the first to see those or be that long with those materials.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you can. I’m not sure it—it was kind of tasteless, as I recall.

[Assistant] Tastes like Moon dust, huh? [Laughs]

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That must have been a very special time in your life to know that you were the first to see those or be that long with those materials.

[User] Yes. Well, it was interesting. I guess that was mainly off the space suits that had come in. I’m trying to recall. I guess they arrived maybe before the crew, because the crew had shown up in this trailer. I don’t know if you recall or not, it was sort of a trailer that they moved in. They were playing this thing for all it was worth, as far as possible contamination from lunar soil or Moon dust.

[Assistant] Quite a difference from where they had been and now they were in this secluded area.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That must have been a very special time in your life to know that you were the first to see those or be that long with those materials.

[User] Yes. Well, it was interesting. I guess that was mainly off the space suits that had come in. I’m trying to recall. I guess they arrived maybe before the crew, because the crew had shown up in this trailer. I don’t know if you recall or not, it was sort of a trailer that they moved in. They were playing this thing for all it was worth, as far as possible contamination from lunar soil or Moon dust.

[Assistant] Quite a difference from where they had been and now they were in this secluded area.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many people were involved in the quarantine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, it was interesting. I guess that was mainly off the space suits that had come in. I’m trying to recall. I guess they arrived maybe before the crew, because the crew had shown up in this trailer. I don’t know if you recall or not, it was sort of a trailer that they moved in. They were playing this thing for all it was worth, as far as possible contamination from lunar soil or Moon dust.

[Assistant] Quite a difference from where they had been and now they were in this secluded area.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many people were involved in the quarantine?

[User] Let’s see. I’m trying to recall. Not that many. There was two doctors and myself, several technicians, and a fellow named—his last name was Graham, I believe, and he was kind of like the head technician. I’m trying to recall the doctors’ names. One later went to—I believe he’s in [Temple], Texas, and the other went to the Eisenhower Clinic [Eisenhower Army Medical Center], and he’s the one that—well, gosh. Names kind of escape you.

[Assistant] Sure. Did you meet together as a team prior to going into quarantine to visit with these other people, or were you all cast in there around the same time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many people were involved in the quarantine?

[User] Let’s see. I’m trying to recall. Not that many. There was two doctors and myself, several technicians, and a fellow named—his last name was Graham, I believe, and he was kind of like the head technician. I’m trying to recall the doctors’ names. One later went to—I believe he’s in [Temple], Texas, and the other went to the Eisenhower Clinic [Eisenhower Army Medical Center], and he’s the one that—well, gosh. Names kind of escape you.

[Assistant] Sure. Did you meet together as a team prior to going into quarantine to visit with these other people, or were you all cast in there around the same time?

[User] Probably showed up about the same time. I don’t recall that we had any big formal meeting. We might have done something one day in advance or several weeks in advance, but I don’t recall any big particular—

[Assistant] Did you have very much association with the other people that were in quarantine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let’s see. I’m trying to recall. Not that many. There was two doctors and myself, several technicians, and a fellow named—his last name was Graham, I believe, and he was kind of like the head technician. I’m trying to recall the doctors’ names. One later went to—I believe he’s in [Temple], Texas, and the other went to the Eisenhower Clinic [Eisenhower Army Medical Center], and he’s the one that—well, gosh. Names kind of escape you.

[Assistant] Sure. Did you meet together as a team prior to going into quarantine to visit with these other people, or were you all cast in there around the same time?

[User] Probably showed up about the same time. I don’t recall that we had any big formal meeting. We might have done something one day in advance or several weeks in advance, but I don’t recall any big particular—

[Assistant] Did you have very much association with the other people that were in quarantine?

[User] Yes. Yes, pretty much. I’m trying to recall the doctor’s name, the one that was really a very pleasant guy and I got along well with. The other doctor I think came back with the crew. He was on the ship. [Dr. William R.] Carpentier was his name. You know him.

[Assistant] I’ve heard that name, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably showed up about the same time. I don’t recall that we had any big formal meeting. We might have done something one day in advance or several weeks in advance, but I don’t recall any big particular—

[Assistant] Did you have very much association with the other people that were in quarantine?

[User] Yes. Yes, pretty much. I’m trying to recall the doctor’s name, the one that was really a very pleasant guy and I got along well with. The other doctor I think came back with the crew. He was on the ship. [Dr. William R.] Carpentier was his name. You know him.

[Assistant] I’ve heard that name, yes.

[User] It was Carpentier, and if I can remember the other fellow, because that’s the one that I really had gotten fairly close with.

[Assistant] When you were released from quarantine, did you have a chance to take some time off and be with your family and be somewhat on a normal routine, or were you right back into your normal day-to-day activities at the office?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes, pretty much. I’m trying to recall the doctor’s name, the one that was really a very pleasant guy and I got along well with. The other doctor I think came back with the crew. He was on the ship. [Dr. William R.] Carpentier was his name. You know him.

[Assistant] I’ve heard that name, yes.

[User] It was Carpentier, and if I can remember the other fellow, because that’s the one that I really had gotten fairly close with.

[Assistant] When you were released from quarantine, did you have a chance to take some time off and be with your family and be somewhat on a normal routine, or were you right back into your normal day-to-day activities at the office?

[User] Well, I think I probably took a little time off, but not much. I don’t recall any extended period of time.

[Assistant] Did you have an opportunity to take much time off at all since the time that you had started with NASA to this time, with all of the continuing missions and changes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was Carpentier, and if I can remember the other fellow, because that’s the one that I really had gotten fairly close with.

[Assistant] When you were released from quarantine, did you have a chance to take some time off and be with your family and be somewhat on a normal routine, or were you right back into your normal day-to-day activities at the office?

[User] Well, I think I probably took a little time off, but not much. I don’t recall any extended period of time.

[Assistant] Did you have an opportunity to take much time off at all since the time that you had started with NASA to this time, with all of the continuing missions and changes?

[User] Some, but not a lot. I guess I was not that big on vacations at the time.

[Assistant] Were your days long as well? Did you have long hours?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think I probably took a little time off, but not much. I don’t recall any extended period of time.

[Assistant] Did you have an opportunity to take much time off at all since the time that you had started with NASA to this time, with all of the continuing missions and changes?

[User] Some, but not a lot. I guess I was not that big on vacations at the time.

[Assistant] Were your days long as well? Did you have long hours?

[User] Sometimes. It varied, and it varied pretty widely.

[Assistant] Apollo 11, you mentioned so many people had traveled throughout the world to be at Houston to see this happen or be a part of it happening.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some, but not a lot. I guess I was not that big on vacations at the time.

[Assistant] Were your days long as well? Did you have long hours?

[User] Sometimes. It varied, and it varied pretty widely.

[Assistant] Apollo 11, you mentioned so many people had traveled throughout the world to be at Houston to see this happen or be a part of it happening.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was it like for Apollo 12? Did you have that same type of interest?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sometimes. It varied, and it varied pretty widely.

[Assistant] Apollo 11, you mentioned so many people had traveled throughout the world to be at Houston to see this happen or be a part of it happening.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was it like for Apollo 12? Did you have that same type of interest?

[User] Probably lesser so. Not as many. Again, that’s predictable, I think, because you’d already had men on the Moon. In fact, Apollo 12 was kind of—I don’t know if you recall or not, that’s where they lost the picture from the surface of the Moon, and that kind of did not help, I guess, as far as the appeal or interest.\n\n Apollo 11, I do recall some things that when I was in quarantine, they had a—I guess it was Armstrong’s wife at the time, they had a big sort of—well, he had a birthday in quarantine, and they had a big birthday party for him. I remember sort of—well, that’s one thing I didn’t talk to the press about, and I told them I wouldn’t, and I kept my word on that. I guess Neil came—well, he cut the cake, and did a lot of things. But, in fact, I guess he was born—his birthday, I think, must have been in August.

[Assistant] I think it’s in August, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was it like for Apollo 12? Did you have that same type of interest?

[User] Probably lesser so. Not as many. Again, that’s predictable, I think, because you’d already had men on the Moon. In fact, Apollo 12 was kind of—I don’t know if you recall or not, that’s where they lost the picture from the surface of the Moon, and that kind of did not help, I guess, as far as the appeal or interest.\n\n Apollo 11, I do recall some things that when I was in quarantine, they had a—I guess it was Armstrong’s wife at the time, they had a big sort of—well, he had a birthday in quarantine, and they had a big birthday party for him. I remember sort of—well, that’s one thing I didn’t talk to the press about, and I told them I wouldn’t, and I kept my word on that. I guess Neil came—well, he cut the cake, and did a lot of things. But, in fact, I guess he was born—his birthday, I think, must have been in August.

[Assistant] I think it’s in August, yes.

[User] Yes. Now, you’ve talked to him also?

[Assistant] Just recently. He was able to find time for us in his schedule. He came down for his annual appointment with the medical staff around his birthday.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Probably lesser so. Not as many. Again, that’s predictable, I think, because you’d already had men on the Moon. In fact, Apollo 12 was kind of—I don’t know if you recall or not, that’s where they lost the picture from the surface of the Moon, and that kind of did not help, I guess, as far as the appeal or interest.\n\n Apollo 11, I do recall some things that when I was in quarantine, they had a—I guess it was Armstrong’s wife at the time, they had a big sort of—well, he had a birthday in quarantine, and they had a big birthday party for him. I remember sort of—well, that’s one thing I didn’t talk to the press about, and I told them I wouldn’t, and I kept my word on that. I guess Neil came—well, he cut the cake, and did a lot of things. But, in fact, I guess he was born—his birthday, I think, must have been in August.

[Assistant] I think it’s in August, yes.

[User] Yes. Now, you’ve talked to him also?

[Assistant] Just recently. He was able to find time for us in his schedule. He came down for his annual appointment with the medical staff around his birthday.

[User] Oh, okay. Well, good for him.

[Assistant] So that’s why I knew when his birthday was.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Now, you’ve talked to him also?

[Assistant] Just recently. He was able to find time for us in his schedule. He came down for his annual appointment with the medical staff around his birthday.

[User] Oh, okay. Well, good for him.

[Assistant] So that’s why I knew when his birthday was.

[User] Well, that makes sense.

[Assistant] He allowed us some time during that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, okay. Well, good for him.

[Assistant] So that’s why I knew when his birthday was.

[User] Well, that makes sense.

[Assistant] He allowed us some time during that.

[User] Well, good. He was very a interesting guy, I felt.

[Assistant] He still is.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, that makes sense.

[Assistant] He allowed us some time during that.

[User] Well, good. He was very a interesting guy, I felt.

[Assistant] He still is.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] His legacy lives on, as so many of the rest of them, especially with the publicity and the movie from\n\n Apollo 13\n\n , so many people have their own interpretation of what happened during that mission, and you’d told us earlier that you were working on the console when the words came in from Lovell.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, good. He was very a interesting guy, I felt.

[Assistant] He still is.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] His legacy lives on, as so many of the rest of them, especially with the publicity and the movie from\n\n Apollo 13\n\n , so many people have their own interpretation of what happened during that mission, and you’d told us earlier that you were working on the console when the words came in from Lovell.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could you describe the environment, the atmosphere that was in the MOCR at that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] His legacy lives on, as so many of the rest of them, especially with the publicity and the movie from\n\n Apollo 13\n\n , so many people have their own interpretation of what happened during that mission, and you’d told us earlier that you were working on the console when the words came in from Lovell.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could you describe the environment, the atmosphere that was in the MOCR at that time?

[User] Yes. I was totally confused. That went just beyond my comprehension of what was going on. I kept thinking, “Well, this thing, they’ll say it’s a glitch and it will go away.” Well, it didn’t, sad to say, but it did turn out to be a great mission in terms of the flight control team. That’s when they had become the real heroes.

[Assistant] Also, we talked about, too, of all good timing, I guess, that the members of the press got to see firsthand how that whole operation worked.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could you describe the environment, the atmosphere that was in the MOCR at that time?

[User] Yes. I was totally confused. That went just beyond my comprehension of what was going on. I kept thinking, “Well, this thing, they’ll say it’s a glitch and it will go away.” Well, it didn’t, sad to say, but it did turn out to be a great mission in terms of the flight control team. That’s when they had become the real heroes.

[Assistant] Also, we talked about, too, of all good timing, I guess, that the members of the press got to see firsthand how that whole operation worked.

[User] Yes. They did. Yes.

[Assistant] Did you notice anything, maybe a different attitude from the press because they actually got to see that firsthand?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I was totally confused. That went just beyond my comprehension of what was going on. I kept thinking, “Well, this thing, they’ll say it’s a glitch and it will go away.” Well, it didn’t, sad to say, but it did turn out to be a great mission in terms of the flight control team. That’s when they had become the real heroes.

[Assistant] Also, we talked about, too, of all good timing, I guess, that the members of the press got to see firsthand how that whole operation worked.

[User] Yes. They did. Yes.

[Assistant] Did you notice anything, maybe a different attitude from the press because they actually got to see that firsthand?

[User] Yes, I think there was an appreciation that, “Gosh, they’re telling us the truth,” and that was good.

[Assistant] What changed with Apollo 13 as far as debriefings and news conferences? Were you having to have more because of that crisis situation than you had had in the previous missions?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. They did. Yes.

[Assistant] Did you notice anything, maybe a different attitude from the press because they actually got to see that firsthand?

[User] Yes, I think there was an appreciation that, “Gosh, they’re telling us the truth,” and that was good.

[Assistant] What changed with Apollo 13 as far as debriefings and news conferences? Were you having to have more because of that crisis situation than you had had in the previous missions?

[User] No, I don’t think you had more, that I recall. But I had done some commentary on that mission, and I was not that involved in the news center. I guess I was on the shift with Kranz, who overnight became kind of like the lead flight director, which was interesting. He’s a very interesting guy.

[Assistant] Were you somewhat with him during this whole time so that you could report or with be him during the news conferences? Was that part of your role?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I think there was an appreciation that, “Gosh, they’re telling us the truth,” and that was good.

[Assistant] What changed with Apollo 13 as far as debriefings and news conferences? Were you having to have more because of that crisis situation than you had had in the previous missions?

[User] No, I don’t think you had more, that I recall. But I had done some commentary on that mission, and I was not that involved in the news center. I guess I was on the shift with Kranz, who overnight became kind of like the lead flight director, which was interesting. He’s a very interesting guy.

[Assistant] Were you somewhat with him during this whole time so that you could report or with be him during the news conferences? Was that part of your role?

[User] I don’t recall if I was with him in the news conferences or not. I may have turned that over to someone like [John E.] Jack Riley, who was my deputy at the time.

[Assistant] Was there a twenty-four-hour news coverage going on during Apollo 13?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don’t think you had more, that I recall. But I had done some commentary on that mission, and I was not that involved in the news center. I guess I was on the shift with Kranz, who overnight became kind of like the lead flight director, which was interesting. He’s a very interesting guy.

[Assistant] Were you somewhat with him during this whole time so that you could report or with be him during the news conferences? Was that part of your role?

[User] I don’t recall if I was with him in the news conferences or not. I may have turned that over to someone like [John E.] Jack Riley, who was my deputy at the time.

[Assistant] Was there a twenty-four-hour news coverage going on during Apollo 13?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] When did that start for the Manned Spacecraft Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t recall if I was with him in the news conferences or not. I may have turned that over to someone like [John E.] Jack Riley, who was my deputy at the time.

[Assistant] Was there a twenty-four-hour news coverage going on during Apollo 13?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] When did that start for the Manned Spacecraft Center?

[User] Well, I think we always had that. Yes, we also had that for missions. Even those where you had the overnight sleep shifts, we always had—in fact, that was one of my earlier assignments, I handled the overnight shift, and that was terrible.

[Assistant] Were you busy during that time period?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] When did that start for the Manned Spacecraft Center?

[User] Well, I think we always had that. Yes, we also had that for missions. Even those where you had the overnight sleep shifts, we always had—in fact, that was one of my earlier assignments, I handled the overnight shift, and that was terrible.

[Assistant] Were you busy during that time period?

[User] No.

[Assistant] But you were on hand in case—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think we always had that. Yes, we also had that for missions. Even those where you had the overnight sleep shifts, we always had—in fact, that was one of my earlier assignments, I handled the overnight shift, and that was terrible.

[Assistant] Were you busy during that time period?

[User] No.

[Assistant] But you were on hand in case—

[User] In case you had a—

[Assistant] Did you work day and nights then when you were on the overnight shift?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No.

[Assistant] But you were on hand in case—

[User] In case you had a—

[Assistant] Did you work day and nights then when you were on the overnight shift?

[User] No, just mainly nights. You did twelve hours and twelve hours, as I recall.

[Assistant] Were you in Building 2, is that where you were located?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In case you had a—

[Assistant] Did you work day and nights then when you were on the overnight shift?

[User] No, just mainly nights. You did twelve hours and twelve hours, as I recall.

[Assistant] Were you in Building 2, is that where you were located?

[User] No, I think when that occurred, we were still over in the building across the street, Building Number 6.

[Assistant] Apollo 14 was the final manned mission that Brian Duff was the manager during that time, Public Affairs manager, so you once again had another change of management. Mr. [John W. “Jack”] King stepped in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, just mainly nights. You did twelve hours and twelve hours, as I recall.

[Assistant] Were you in Building 2, is that where you were located?

[User] No, I think when that occurred, we were still over in the building across the street, Building Number 6.

[Assistant] Apollo 14 was the final manned mission that Brian Duff was the manager during that time, Public Affairs manager, so you once again had another change of management. Mr. [John W. “Jack”] King stepped in.

[User] Yes, Jack King, that’s right.

[Assistant] Did you again have changes in your organization, or did the functions and the roles and responsibilities continue?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I think when that occurred, we were still over in the building across the street, Building Number 6.

[Assistant] Apollo 14 was the final manned mission that Brian Duff was the manager during that time, Public Affairs manager, so you once again had another change of management. Mr. [John W. “Jack”] King stepped in.

[User] Yes, Jack King, that’s right.

[Assistant] Did you again have changes in your organization, or did the functions and the roles and responsibilities continue?

[User] No, I think we stayed pretty much the same. Pretty much the same, yes. King had come to us from Florida, the Kennedy Space Center, and Duff, I guess, well, he went on to HEW [Health, Education, and Welfare], I believe.

[Assistant] I think so. Well, on 15 from what I’ve learned is that you weren’t a commentator, you were starting to manage the Apollo News Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, Jack King, that’s right.

[Assistant] Did you again have changes in your organization, or did the functions and the roles and responsibilities continue?

[User] No, I think we stayed pretty much the same. Pretty much the same, yes. King had come to us from Florida, the Kennedy Space Center, and Duff, I guess, well, he went on to HEW [Health, Education, and Welfare], I believe.

[Assistant] I think so. Well, on 15 from what I’ve learned is that you weren’t a commentator, you were starting to manage the Apollo News Center?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did the Apollo News Center evolve, and what was its purpose, and what was your role with that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did the Apollo News Center evolve, and what was its purpose, and what was your role with that?

[User] On the 15?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Well, I think I ran the news center, but I don’t recall any big difference. On Apollo 16, I became a commentator again.

[Assistant] I also noticed that you were paired a lot of times with Jack Riley. Was that something that you liked working with him?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] On the 15?

[Assistant] Yes.

[User] Well, I think I ran the news center, but I don’t recall any big difference. On Apollo 16, I became a commentator again.

[Assistant] I also noticed that you were paired a lot of times with Jack Riley. Was that something that you liked working with him?

[User] Yes. Well, now, Riley and I are very close, not only business associates but close personal friends. In fact, Jack, well, he was number two guy in the office and had been that for years. He had a great sense of humor. In fact, what was the guy’s name that was the San Francisco columnist for a number of years? I’m trying to recall. He wrote something like some big promoter had written him and said that he was going to have the first topless place on the Moon, and Riley drafted the answer that said, “Dear So-and-so, bare breasts implode on the Moon.” [Laughs]

[Assistant] Probably wasn’t the answer he expected.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think I ran the news center, but I don’t recall any big difference. On Apollo 16, I became a commentator again.

[Assistant] I also noticed that you were paired a lot of times with Jack Riley. Was that something that you liked working with him?

[User] Yes. Well, now, Riley and I are very close, not only business associates but close personal friends. In fact, Jack, well, he was number two guy in the office and had been that for years. He had a great sense of humor. In fact, what was the guy’s name that was the San Francisco columnist for a number of years? I’m trying to recall. He wrote something like some big promoter had written him and said that he was going to have the first topless place on the Moon, and Riley drafted the answer that said, “Dear So-and-so, bare breasts implode on the Moon.” [Laughs]

[Assistant] Probably wasn’t the answer he expected.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Apollo 15 was the beginning of the science missions.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, now, Riley and I are very close, not only business associates but close personal friends. In fact, Jack, well, he was number two guy in the office and had been that for years. He had a great sense of humor. In fact, what was the guy’s name that was the San Francisco columnist for a number of years? I’m trying to recall. He wrote something like some big promoter had written him and said that he was going to have the first topless place on the Moon, and Riley drafted the answer that said, “Dear So-and-so, bare breasts implode on the Moon.” [Laughs]

[Assistant] Probably wasn’t the answer he expected.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Apollo 15 was the beginning of the science missions.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So your staff had to become informed on again new information.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Apollo 15 was the beginning of the science missions.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So your staff had to become informed on again new information.

[User] Yes. That was [David R.] Dave Scott’s mission, and we got caught a little bit by surprise by some of the things they were doing with the first-day covers.

[Assistant] Would you elaborate a little bit on that and how that affected your office?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So your staff had to become informed on again new information.

[User] Yes. That was [David R.] Dave Scott’s mission, and we got caught a little bit by surprise by some of the things they were doing with the first-day covers.

[Assistant] Would you elaborate a little bit on that and how that affected your office?

[User] Well, yes, it affected us in that I guess it looked kind of sleazy. It was Scott—who was it, [Alfred M.] Worden?

[Assistant] [James B.] Irwin.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. That was [David R.] Dave Scott’s mission, and we got caught a little bit by surprise by some of the things they were doing with the first-day covers.

[Assistant] Would you elaborate a little bit on that and how that affected your office?

[User] Well, yes, it affected us in that I guess it looked kind of sleazy. It was Scott—who was it, [Alfred M.] Worden?

[Assistant] [James B.] Irwin.

[User] And Irwin, yes. I think Scott may have been kind of the ringleader. Well, he was the commander, so you would assume he was the ringleader. But they were selling them at like $1,500 a whack, I think, and they had a bunch of them. Yes, that had an impact. It didn’t make us look good.

[Assistant] Do you feel like your office had to do somewhat of damage control?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yes, it affected us in that I guess it looked kind of sleazy. It was Scott—who was it, [Alfred M.] Worden?

[Assistant] [James B.] Irwin.

[User] And Irwin, yes. I think Scott may have been kind of the ringleader. Well, he was the commander, so you would assume he was the ringleader. But they were selling them at like $1,500 a whack, I think, and they had a bunch of them. Yes, that had an impact. It didn’t make us look good.

[Assistant] Do you feel like your office had to do somewhat of damage control?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did you manage to accomplish that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And Irwin, yes. I think Scott may have been kind of the ringleader. Well, he was the commander, so you would assume he was the ringleader. But they were selling them at like $1,500 a whack, I think, and they had a bunch of them. Yes, that had an impact. It didn’t make us look good.

[Assistant] Do you feel like your office had to do somewhat of damage control?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did you manage to accomplish that?

[User] Well, I’m not sure you ever accomplish it fully, but we did try to do damage control.

[Assistant] It was also a time when we had a press conference that came from space. In August of [19]‘71 on their return home, they did a press conference. Do you recall any of the information or how that was handled coming from the crew?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did you manage to accomplish that?

[User] Well, I’m not sure you ever accomplish it fully, but we did try to do damage control.

[Assistant] It was also a time when we had a press conference that came from space. In August of [19]‘71 on their return home, they did a press conference. Do you recall any of the information or how that was handled coming from the crew?

[User] Let’s see, that was the Scott, Irwin, Worden crew. No, I don’t recall it offhand, but I know we’d planned to do that kind of thing, and I guess it worked out reasonably well.

[Assistant] When you worked as a commentator, you certainly worked with quite different flight directors through your career.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I’m not sure you ever accomplish it fully, but we did try to do damage control.

[Assistant] It was also a time when we had a press conference that came from space. In August of [19]‘71 on their return home, they did a press conference. Do you recall any of the information or how that was handled coming from the crew?

[User] Let’s see, that was the Scott, Irwin, Worden crew. No, I don’t recall it offhand, but I know we’d planned to do that kind of thing, and I guess it worked out reasonably well.

[Assistant] When you worked as a commentator, you certainly worked with quite different flight directors through your career.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you have to change the way you did your role based on the flight director, or did you have a continuity of how you did your job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Let’s see, that was the Scott, Irwin, Worden crew. No, I don’t recall it offhand, but I know we’d planned to do that kind of thing, and I guess it worked out reasonably well.

[Assistant] When you worked as a commentator, you certainly worked with quite different flight directors through your career.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you have to change the way you did your role based on the flight director, or did you have a continuity of how you did your job?

[User] Well, I tried to do it pretty much the same way, but I know I tended to maybe talk a little louder than I should have, and I know Kranz didn’t like that, particularly as far as launch.

[Assistant] Did you have any other feelings or comments from the other flight directors on your job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did you have to change the way you did your role based on the flight director, or did you have a continuity of how you did your job?

[User] Well, I tried to do it pretty much the same way, but I know I tended to maybe talk a little louder than I should have, and I know Kranz didn’t like that, particularly as far as launch.

[Assistant] Did you have any other feelings or comments from the other flight directors on your job?

[User] No. Not that I can recall, no.

[Assistant] Did the flight directors, in your opinion, in your experience feel like the Public Affairs console was a needed console in that room?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Not that I can recall, no.

[Assistant] Did the flight directors, in your opinion, in your experience feel like the Public Affairs console was a needed console in that room?

[User] Yes, I think basically most of them did, including—who was it, [Clifford E.] Cliff Charlesworth. I guess Charlesworth—no, he’s no longer with us.

[Assistant] No.

[User] Charlesworth was one that I think was very pleasant. I would say that most of them were reasonable. I know Lunney was a very good one to work with. And Kranz. Kranz was different. He was very methodical and by the book, a very interesting guy.

[Assistant] There’s always been somewhat of a perception that there’s been a tension between the Public Affairs Office and maybe the flight controllers or the engineers or other groups on the center. Did you ever feel like there was a tension between your office?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I think basically most of them did, including—who was it, [Clifford E.] Cliff Charlesworth. I guess Charlesworth—no, he’s no longer with us.

[Assistant] No.

[User] Charlesworth was one that I think was very pleasant. I would say that most of them were reasonable. I know Lunney was a very good one to work with. And Kranz. Kranz was different. He was very methodical and by the book, a very interesting guy.

[Assistant] There’s always been somewhat of a perception that there’s been a tension between the Public Affairs Office and maybe the flight controllers or the engineers or other groups on the center. Did you ever feel like there was a tension between your office?

[User] I never felt it that much with the flight controllers. Maybe to a degree it could be maybe with some of the engineers. I think that varied pretty widely.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why they felt that there should be a tension?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Charlesworth was one that I think was very pleasant. I would say that most of them were reasonable. I know Lunney was a very good one to work with. And Kranz. Kranz was different. He was very methodical and by the book, a very interesting guy.

[Assistant] There’s always been somewhat of a perception that there’s been a tension between the Public Affairs Office and maybe the flight controllers or the engineers or other groups on the center. Did you ever feel like there was a tension between your office?

[User] I never felt it that much with the flight controllers. Maybe to a degree it could be maybe with some of the engineers. I think that varied pretty widely.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why they felt that there should be a tension?

[User] No. No, I really don’t, because I don’t think there should have been. I left NASA, I guess fairly early in the Shuttle Program, and that was interesting, too.

[Assistant] Quite a different spacecraft, wasn’t it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I never felt it that much with the flight controllers. Maybe to a degree it could be maybe with some of the engineers. I think that varied pretty widely.

[Assistant] Do you have any idea why they felt that there should be a tension?

[User] No. No, I really don’t, because I don’t think there should have been. I left NASA, I guess fairly early in the Shuttle Program, and that was interesting, too.

[Assistant] Quite a different spacecraft, wasn’t it?

[User] Yes. Yes, it was.

[Assistant] In between the last Apollo mission of 17, of course we had Skylab.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No, I really don’t, because I don’t think there should have been. I left NASA, I guess fairly early in the Shuttle Program, and that was interesting, too.

[Assistant] Quite a different spacecraft, wasn’t it?

[User] Yes. Yes, it was.

[Assistant] In between the last Apollo mission of 17, of course we had Skylab.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] The Public Affairs Office now again continued covering twenty-four hours a day. However, you were having missions that lasted weeks instead of days. How did your office adjust to this new era?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes, it was.

[Assistant] In between the last Apollo mission of 17, of course we had Skylab.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] The Public Affairs Office now again continued covering twenty-four hours a day. However, you were having missions that lasted weeks instead of days. How did your office adjust to this new era?

[User] Well, you did that a little differently. I’m trying to recall. Apollo-Soyuz was very interesting, because that was a challenge. Apollo-Soyuz, because you had the two languages, you had the voice-over. Like we had—well, I’m trying to recall. We had a fellow who was an excellent Soviet interpreter, a Russian interpreter, I should say, and he would interpret what they were saying and kind of do a voice-over, and that was interesting. That was a big challenge as far as a mission.

[Assistant] Did he do this out of your new center or was he doing it in the MOCR?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] The Public Affairs Office now again continued covering twenty-four hours a day. However, you were having missions that lasted weeks instead of days. How did your office adjust to this new era?

[User] Well, you did that a little differently. I’m trying to recall. Apollo-Soyuz was very interesting, because that was a challenge. Apollo-Soyuz, because you had the two languages, you had the voice-over. Like we had—well, I’m trying to recall. We had a fellow who was an excellent Soviet interpreter, a Russian interpreter, I should say, and he would interpret what they were saying and kind of do a voice-over, and that was interesting. That was a big challenge as far as a mission.

[Assistant] Did he do this out of your new center or was he doing it in the MOCR?

[User] No, he was doing it in a room next to the control center. I guess it was one of these staff support rooms.

[Assistant] And you coordinated all of that information out of there as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you did that a little differently. I’m trying to recall. Apollo-Soyuz was very interesting, because that was a challenge. Apollo-Soyuz, because you had the two languages, you had the voice-over. Like we had—well, I’m trying to recall. We had a fellow who was an excellent Soviet interpreter, a Russian interpreter, I should say, and he would interpret what they were saying and kind of do a voice-over, and that was interesting. That was a big challenge as far as a mission.

[Assistant] Did he do this out of your new center or was he doing it in the MOCR?

[User] No, he was doing it in a room next to the control center. I guess it was one of these staff support rooms.

[Assistant] And you coordinated all of that information out of there as well?

[User] Yes. We used that as a voice-over, and he went—it was kind of like you could hear the Russian in the background, but you could hear his voice going over it, so it worked very well. I guess that was [Donald K. “Deke”] Slayton’s mission also. He was on that. Then I know the landing, that’s when they had a problem, and I forget what the problem was.

[Assistant] I think they had problems with the chutes not opening properly, and they had inhaled possibly some gasses.