[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When I joined NASA, it was the Manned Spacecraft Center [MSC] at that time, in 1962. I had previously worked for the Air Force and found this really an exhilarating opportunity for me, when I joined NASA. Later I became Chief of Public Information and spent about sixteen years in that job.

[Assistant] Did you have interest as a younger person in journalism?

[User] Yes. I had a background in journalism. I had a degree in journalism.

[Assistant] You served in the [United States] Air Force, I think from 1952 to 1959. Tell us about that time period. Did you do any field of journalism there?

[User] Well, yes, I did do some journalism when I was stationed mainly at England Air Force Base, and that was I ran, among other things, the base newspaper, which was named\n\n The Tiger Talk\n\n . That was a very interesting time to me. The commander of the base was an unusual fellow. His name was William A. Daniel. He’s a little short guy. But he was something else. In fact, he had a philosophy that says don’t ever use the word “don’t.” It’s kind of like when you’d see a sign that says, “Don’t walk on the grass,” he’d say, “Use the sidewalk.” It was very interesting period.\n\n Then I was later stationed in Taiwan—Taipei, Taiwan—as a public information officer. So, yes, I did have some background in the Air Force.

[Assistant] Then after you left the Air Force, or was it when you were still in the Air Force you went to the University of Houston?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I had a background in journalism. I had a degree in journalism.

[Assistant] You served in the [United States] Air Force, I think from 1952 to 1959. Tell us about that time period. Did you do any field of journalism there?

[User] Well, yes, I did do some journalism when I was stationed mainly at England Air Force Base, and that was I ran, among other things, the base newspaper, which was named\n\n The Tiger Talk\n\n . That was a very interesting time to me. The commander of the base was an unusual fellow. His name was William A. Daniel. He’s a little short guy. But he was something else. In fact, he had a philosophy that says don’t ever use the word “don’t.” It’s kind of like when you’d see a sign that says, “Don’t walk on the grass,” he’d say, “Use the sidewalk.” It was very interesting period.\n\n Then I was later stationed in Taiwan—Taipei, Taiwan—as a public information officer. So, yes, I did have some background in the Air Force.

[Assistant] Then after you left the Air Force, or was it when you were still in the Air Force you went to the University of Houston?

[User] Yes, I did go to the University of Houston when I was in the Air Force. I had spent most of my career at Rice [University] in Houston, and then transferred because Rice did not have a degree in journalism, and I could also fashion something called Operation Bootstrap, get a degree in six months from the University of Houston.\n\n Then after that I somehow ended up working at Ellington Field or Ellington Air Force Base [Houston, Texas] just prior to joining NASA. That was very interesting, because I guess I caught NASA’s attention when we had a big air show, which attracted, gosh, probably 100,000 people in one day to watch the demonstration. We had both the [U.S. Navy] Blue Angels and the [U.S. Air Force] Thunderbirds perform, plus a lot of other things.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you might have attracted NASA’s attention then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, yes, I did do some journalism when I was stationed mainly at England Air Force Base, and that was I ran, among other things, the base newspaper, which was named\n\n The Tiger Talk\n\n . That was a very interesting time to me. The commander of the base was an unusual fellow. His name was William A. Daniel. He’s a little short guy. But he was something else. In fact, he had a philosophy that says don’t ever use the word “don’t.” It’s kind of like when you’d see a sign that says, “Don’t walk on the grass,” he’d say, “Use the sidewalk.” It was very interesting period.\n\n Then I was later stationed in Taiwan—Taipei, Taiwan—as a public information officer. So, yes, I did have some background in the Air Force.

[Assistant] Then after you left the Air Force, or was it when you were still in the Air Force you went to the University of Houston?

[User] Yes, I did go to the University of Houston when I was in the Air Force. I had spent most of my career at Rice [University] in Houston, and then transferred because Rice did not have a degree in journalism, and I could also fashion something called Operation Bootstrap, get a degree in six months from the University of Houston.\n\n Then after that I somehow ended up working at Ellington Field or Ellington Air Force Base [Houston, Texas] just prior to joining NASA. That was very interesting, because I guess I caught NASA’s attention when we had a big air show, which attracted, gosh, probably 100,000 people in one day to watch the demonstration. We had both the [U.S. Navy] Blue Angels and the [U.S. Air Force] Thunderbirds perform, plus a lot of other things.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you might have attracted NASA’s attention then.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they recruit you to work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I did go to the University of Houston when I was in the Air Force. I had spent most of my career at Rice [University] in Houston, and then transferred because Rice did not have a degree in journalism, and I could also fashion something called Operation Bootstrap, get a degree in six months from the University of Houston.\n\n Then after that I somehow ended up working at Ellington Field or Ellington Air Force Base [Houston, Texas] just prior to joining NASA. That was very interesting, because I guess I caught NASA’s attention when we had a big air show, which attracted, gosh, probably 100,000 people in one day to watch the demonstration. We had both the [U.S. Navy] Blue Angels and the [U.S. Air Force] Thunderbirds perform, plus a lot of other things.

[Assistant] You mentioned that you might have attracted NASA’s attention then.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they recruit you to work?

[User] Yes. I was contacted by a fellow who was my boss for a period of time. His name was Ben Gillespie, and I guess Ben has long since left NASA. In fact, well, as far as I know, he may still live in Houston, probably does. But Ben was the fellow that really kind of attracted me to join them, and I never regretted it, obviously, because it turned out to be kind of a fulfilling career.

[Assistant] What were you doing at the time when he contacted you to join?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they recruit you to work?

[User] Yes. I was contacted by a fellow who was my boss for a period of time. His name was Ben Gillespie, and I guess Ben has long since left NASA. In fact, well, as far as I know, he may still live in Houston, probably does. But Ben was the fellow that really kind of attracted me to join them, and I never regretted it, obviously, because it turned out to be kind of a fulfilling career.

[Assistant] What were you doing at the time when he contacted you to join?

[User] I was working at Ellington.

[Assistant] For the Air Force.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I was contacted by a fellow who was my boss for a period of time. His name was Ben Gillespie, and I guess Ben has long since left NASA. In fact, well, as far as I know, he may still live in Houston, probably does. But Ben was the fellow that really kind of attracted me to join them, and I never regretted it, obviously, because it turned out to be kind of a fulfilling career.

[Assistant] What were you doing at the time when he contacted you to join?

[User] I was working at Ellington.

[Assistant] For the Air Force.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] During that time, Russia, or the Soviet Union, had launched Sputnik, and you were part of the Air Force at that time. What were your thoughts on this whole new space era?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was working at Ellington.

[Assistant] For the Air Force.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] During that time, Russia, or the Soviet Union, had launched Sputnik, and you were part of the Air Force at that time. What were your thoughts on this whole new space era?

[User] Well, I found it kind of an exciting thing to do. It was quite different. I had worked in the Air Force, and I guess I had left the Air Force and lived in Dallas for a short period of time and had published a book named—it was kind of a photographic book with a lot of pictures about the Air Force. But, no, I got very excited about the prospect of joining NASA.

[Assistant] When Mr. Gillespie talked to you about your potential job, what did he tell you that you would be doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] During that time, Russia, or the Soviet Union, had launched Sputnik, and you were part of the Air Force at that time. What were your thoughts on this whole new space era?

[User] Well, I found it kind of an exciting thing to do. It was quite different. I had worked in the Air Force, and I guess I had left the Air Force and lived in Dallas for a short period of time and had published a book named—it was kind of a photographic book with a lot of pictures about the Air Force. But, no, I got very excited about the prospect of joining NASA.

[Assistant] When Mr. Gillespie talked to you about your potential job, what did he tell you that you would be doing?

[User] Well, I joined him. He ran what was then called the Industry Communications Department, which [Lieutenant Colonel John A.] “Shorty” Powers was the chief of public affairs at the time, and I guess Shorty had all these little fragmented departments, and we were a little fragmented department. That’s what I did first.\n\n Well, I guess after we were there for a period of time, well, it was much later, I guess in 1968, I think is when I became Chief of Public Information.

[Assistant] Could you describe for us what it was like those first days that you joined—as in the Industry Communications? How was Public Affairs organized and the structure and what were your duties?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I found it kind of an exciting thing to do. It was quite different. I had worked in the Air Force, and I guess I had left the Air Force and lived in Dallas for a short period of time and had published a book named—it was kind of a photographic book with a lot of pictures about the Air Force. But, no, I got very excited about the prospect of joining NASA.

[Assistant] When Mr. Gillespie talked to you about your potential job, what did he tell you that you would be doing?

[User] Well, I joined him. He ran what was then called the Industry Communications Department, which [Lieutenant Colonel John A.] “Shorty” Powers was the chief of public affairs at the time, and I guess Shorty had all these little fragmented departments, and we were a little fragmented department. That’s what I did first.\n\n Well, I guess after we were there for a period of time, well, it was much later, I guess in 1968, I think is when I became Chief of Public Information.

[Assistant] Could you describe for us what it was like those first days that you joined—as in the Industry Communications? How was Public Affairs organized and the structure and what were your duties?

[User] Yes. Well, as I mentioned there were a number of small little fragmented organizations that we had – the Industry Communications Section, or Branch. We had the Internal Communications Branch. There was, I guess, the Public Information Branch, which should have been much more active than I guess it was. It was just a number of just small fragmented operations. I guess that was Shorty’s style. I’m sure you’ve heard of Shorty Powers.

[Assistant] Yes. Where were you housed when you joined the staff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I joined him. He ran what was then called the Industry Communications Department, which [Lieutenant Colonel John A.] “Shorty” Powers was the chief of public affairs at the time, and I guess Shorty had all these little fragmented departments, and we were a little fragmented department. That’s what I did first.\n\n Well, I guess after we were there for a period of time, well, it was much later, I guess in 1968, I think is when I became Chief of Public Information.

[Assistant] Could you describe for us what it was like those first days that you joined—as in the Industry Communications? How was Public Affairs organized and the structure and what were your duties?

[User] Yes. Well, as I mentioned there were a number of small little fragmented organizations that we had – the Industry Communications Section, or Branch. We had the Internal Communications Branch. There was, I guess, the Public Information Branch, which should have been much more active than I guess it was. It was just a number of just small fragmented operations. I guess that was Shorty’s style. I’m sure you’ve heard of Shorty Powers.

[Assistant] Yes. Where were you housed when you joined the staff?

[User] Where did I live?

[Assistant] Well, where was your office? Was the Industry Communications group with the rest of the group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, as I mentioned there were a number of small little fragmented organizations that we had – the Industry Communications Section, or Branch. We had the Internal Communications Branch. There was, I guess, the Public Information Branch, which should have been much more active than I guess it was. It was just a number of just small fragmented operations. I guess that was Shorty’s style. I’m sure you’ve heard of Shorty Powers.

[Assistant] Yes. Where were you housed when you joined the staff?

[User] Where did I live?

[Assistant] Well, where was your office? Was the Industry Communications group with the rest of the group?

[User] Well, no. Well, remember back in those days we were located in various offices throughout Houston. Our office—well, we moved from the Honeywell Building to a building named the Peachy Building. I guess it was owned by a fellow name Truitt Peachy, who I had known when I was in college at Rice. The last assignment that I recall is we were at the Peachy Building before we moved to the Center itself.

[Assistant] Was the entire Public Affairs Office [PAO] in that building or was it just your branch?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Where did I live?

[Assistant] Well, where was your office? Was the Industry Communications group with the rest of the group?

[User] Well, no. Well, remember back in those days we were located in various offices throughout Houston. Our office—well, we moved from the Honeywell Building to a building named the Peachy Building. I guess it was owned by a fellow name Truitt Peachy, who I had known when I was in college at Rice. The last assignment that I recall is we were at the Peachy Building before we moved to the Center itself.

[Assistant] Was the entire Public Affairs Office [PAO] in that building or was it just your branch?

[User] No. Our branch and I think maybe one or two others, but I don’t recall now for sure.

[Assistant] Was there ever a time that all the branches got together for a staff meeting or briefing or communications?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, no. Well, remember back in those days we were located in various offices throughout Houston. Our office—well, we moved from the Honeywell Building to a building named the Peachy Building. I guess it was owned by a fellow name Truitt Peachy, who I had known when I was in college at Rice. The last assignment that I recall is we were at the Peachy Building before we moved to the Center itself.

[Assistant] Was the entire Public Affairs Office [PAO] in that building or was it just your branch?

[User] No. Our branch and I think maybe one or two others, but I don’t recall now for sure.

[Assistant] Was there ever a time that all the branches got together for a staff meeting or briefing or communications?

[User] Well, when we moved eventually to the Manned Spacecraft Center offices, we had our office, it was mainly in a building across the NASA [Road] 1 in Building Number 6, I believe—maybe you know this—which was a rather large building. Now, we were all located in that building for a period of time. Well, that was a while back, too. As a matter of fact, that’s where we were located when the Apollo 1 fire occurred. I recall that because it was a terrible night.

[Assistant] Well, while you brought it up, would you like to share those details about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Our branch and I think maybe one or two others, but I don’t recall now for sure.

[Assistant] Was there ever a time that all the branches got together for a staff meeting or briefing or communications?

[User] Well, when we moved eventually to the Manned Spacecraft Center offices, we had our office, it was mainly in a building across the NASA [Road] 1 in Building Number 6, I believe—maybe you know this—which was a rather large building. Now, we were all located in that building for a period of time. Well, that was a while back, too. As a matter of fact, that’s where we were located when the Apollo 1 fire occurred. I recall that because it was a terrible night.

[Assistant] Well, while you brought it up, would you like to share those details about that?

[User] Sure. Yes. Well, I guess it was a Friday night, and we were all getting ready to go to a party for a fellow named [Albert M.] Al Chop, who at that time I think Chop was the deputy to Shorty. I forget the reason for the party, maybe it was a birthday or whatever. But in any case, after all of this happened, obviously we never made it to the party. It was a horrible evening.

[Assistant] How did you receive the word?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, when we moved eventually to the Manned Spacecraft Center offices, we had our office, it was mainly in a building across the NASA [Road] 1 in Building Number 6, I believe—maybe you know this—which was a rather large building. Now, we were all located in that building for a period of time. Well, that was a while back, too. As a matter of fact, that’s where we were located when the Apollo 1 fire occurred. I recall that because it was a terrible night.

[Assistant] Well, while you brought it up, would you like to share those details about that?

[User] Sure. Yes. Well, I guess it was a Friday night, and we were all getting ready to go to a party for a fellow named [Albert M.] Al Chop, who at that time I think Chop was the deputy to Shorty. I forget the reason for the party, maybe it was a birthday or whatever. But in any case, after all of this happened, obviously we never made it to the party. It was a horrible evening.

[Assistant] How did you receive the word?

[User] Well, we kept getting phone calls from the Cape, from KSC, from the Kennedy Space Center, and that started it. I guess it finally evolved where we knew for sure that the crew were all dead.

[Assistant] What was your position at the time? Were you the chief?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. Yes. Well, I guess it was a Friday night, and we were all getting ready to go to a party for a fellow named [Albert M.] Al Chop, who at that time I think Chop was the deputy to Shorty. I forget the reason for the party, maybe it was a birthday or whatever. But in any case, after all of this happened, obviously we never made it to the party. It was a horrible evening.

[Assistant] How did you receive the word?

[User] Well, we kept getting phone calls from the Cape, from KSC, from the Kennedy Space Center, and that started it. I guess it finally evolved where we knew for sure that the crew were all dead.

[Assistant] What was your position at the time? Were you the chief?

[User] No, at that time I was the Deputy Chief of, I guess, Public Information.

[Assistant] Then as that role, what were your responsibilities regarding the Apollo 1 fire? What were some of the duties that you had to be responsible for?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we kept getting phone calls from the Cape, from KSC, from the Kennedy Space Center, and that started it. I guess it finally evolved where we knew for sure that the crew were all dead.

[Assistant] What was your position at the time? Were you the chief?

[User] No, at that time I was the Deputy Chief of, I guess, Public Information.

[Assistant] Then as that role, what were your responsibilities regarding the Apollo 1 fire? What were some of the duties that you had to be responsible for?

[User] Well, I became very involved in some of the news releases and answers to inquiries. When that kind of thing happens, sometimes it can become very burdensome. We had a system set up where you had to clear everything through a group of people. It became very unwieldy. We did end up doing that kind of thing.

[Assistant] You had been there about three years, I think.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, at that time I was the Deputy Chief of, I guess, Public Information.

[Assistant] Then as that role, what were your responsibilities regarding the Apollo 1 fire? What were some of the duties that you had to be responsible for?

[User] Well, I became very involved in some of the news releases and answers to inquiries. When that kind of thing happens, sometimes it can become very burdensome. We had a system set up where you had to clear everything through a group of people. It became very unwieldy. We did end up doing that kind of thing.

[Assistant] You had been there about three years, I think.

[User] Well, let’s see. Yes. Well, let’s see. When I joined NASA, it was just before [Walter M.] Wally Schirra’s [Jr.] first Mercury mission. That would have been, what, August, I believe, of probably [19]‘62.

[Assistant] The Mercury? No, the Gemini with Schirra as December [19]‘65.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I became very involved in some of the news releases and answers to inquiries. When that kind of thing happens, sometimes it can become very burdensome. We had a system set up where you had to clear everything through a group of people. It became very unwieldy. We did end up doing that kind of thing.

[Assistant] You had been there about three years, I think.

[User] Well, let’s see. Yes. Well, let’s see. When I joined NASA, it was just before [Walter M.] Wally Schirra’s [Jr.] first Mercury mission. That would have been, what, August, I believe, of probably [19]‘62.

[Assistant] The Mercury? No, the Gemini with Schirra as December [19]‘65.

[User] No, no. His first, his Mercury.

[Assistant] His Mercury, October [19]‘62.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, let’s see. Yes. Well, let’s see. When I joined NASA, it was just before [Walter M.] Wally Schirra’s [Jr.] first Mercury mission. That would have been, what, August, I believe, of probably [19]‘62.

[Assistant] The Mercury? No, the Gemini with Schirra as December [19]‘65.

[User] No, no. His first, his Mercury.

[Assistant] His Mercury, October [19]‘62.

[User] Yes. Okay.

[Assistant] So you had been there several years.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. His first, his Mercury.

[Assistant] His Mercury, October [19]‘62.

[User] Yes. Okay.

[Assistant] So you had been there several years.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And did you have training as you went through those years to prepare you for that new role or was it a lot of on-the-job training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Okay.

[Assistant] So you had been there several years.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And did you have training as you went through those years to prepare you for that new role or was it a lot of on-the-job training?

[User] I think it was mostly on-the-job training. You did not have any formal kind of thing.

[Assistant] How did you become informed and educated on the hardware and the systems and spacecraft that the astronauts were using?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And did you have training as you went through those years to prepare you for that new role or was it a lot of on-the-job training?

[User] I think it was mostly on-the-job training. You did not have any formal kind of thing.

[Assistant] How did you become informed and educated on the hardware and the systems and spacecraft that the astronauts were using?

[User] Well, you tended to do that a lot through your own studies. I don’t know if you’ve seen them or not, but back in those days the contractor would put together these detailed books on the hardware. I guess McDonnell Douglas [McDonnell Aircraft Corporation] did it for Gemini, and North American [Aviation, Inc.] did it for the Apollo.

[Assistant] And Public Affairs was given a copy of those?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think it was mostly on-the-job training. You did not have any formal kind of thing.

[Assistant] How did you become informed and educated on the hardware and the systems and spacecraft that the astronauts were using?

[User] Well, you tended to do that a lot through your own studies. I don’t know if you’ve seen them or not, but back in those days the contractor would put together these detailed books on the hardware. I guess McDonnell Douglas [McDonnell Aircraft Corporation] did it for Gemini, and North American [Aviation, Inc.] did it for the Apollo.

[Assistant] And Public Affairs was given a copy of those?

[User] Yes. We had copies of those, yes.

[Assistant] So it was basically your own responsibility to inform yourself?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you tended to do that a lot through your own studies. I don’t know if you’ve seen them or not, but back in those days the contractor would put together these detailed books on the hardware. I guess McDonnell Douglas [McDonnell Aircraft Corporation] did it for Gemini, and North American [Aviation, Inc.] did it for the Apollo.

[Assistant] And Public Affairs was given a copy of those?

[User] Yes. We had copies of those, yes.

[Assistant] So it was basically your own responsibility to inform yourself?

[User] Yes. You’d try to do that as much as you could. I ended up even writing a piece or two for [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth for one of the publications, I guess one of Grumman’s [Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation] publications, and then also an article where he was supposed to look out a hundred years from now and see what it would look like in 1960—well, I guess it would be 2069 or 2065 or 6 or 7, whatever.\n\n But, yes, it was a very interesting time because a lot of things were happening. As far as public affairs, you were really dealing with first-rate newspeople. It was like the Walter Cronkites and the Dan Rathers and so on. I had known Rather in Houston before, before he left and went on to work for the network. In fact, I guess Rather was in Dallas [Texas] the day [President John F.] Kennedy was assassinated.

[Assistant] I think so, yes.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We had copies of those, yes.

[Assistant] So it was basically your own responsibility to inform yourself?

[User] Yes. You’d try to do that as much as you could. I ended up even writing a piece or two for [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth for one of the publications, I guess one of Grumman’s [Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation] publications, and then also an article where he was supposed to look out a hundred years from now and see what it would look like in 1960—well, I guess it would be 2069 or 2065 or 6 or 7, whatever.\n\n But, yes, it was a very interesting time because a lot of things were happening. As far as public affairs, you were really dealing with first-rate newspeople. It was like the Walter Cronkites and the Dan Rathers and so on. I had known Rather in Houston before, before he left and went on to work for the network. In fact, I guess Rather was in Dallas [Texas] the day [President John F.] Kennedy was assassinated.

[Assistant] I think so, yes.

[User] That’s when he became, I guess, the White House correspondent because of [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson.

[Assistant] During that time period when Public Affairs and you were evolving, what was the mission of Public Affairs? So many people have different ideas and perceptions of what Public Affairs was supposed to do or is doing. Could you share with us, as a Public Affairs person, what you were trying to accomplish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. You’d try to do that as much as you could. I ended up even writing a piece or two for [Dr. Robert R.] Gilruth for one of the publications, I guess one of Grumman’s [Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation] publications, and then also an article where he was supposed to look out a hundred years from now and see what it would look like in 1960—well, I guess it would be 2069 or 2065 or 6 or 7, whatever.\n\n But, yes, it was a very interesting time because a lot of things were happening. As far as public affairs, you were really dealing with first-rate newspeople. It was like the Walter Cronkites and the Dan Rathers and so on. I had known Rather in Houston before, before he left and went on to work for the network. In fact, I guess Rather was in Dallas [Texas] the day [President John F.] Kennedy was assassinated.

[Assistant] I think so, yes.

[User] That’s when he became, I guess, the White House correspondent because of [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson.

[Assistant] During that time period when Public Affairs and you were evolving, what was the mission of Public Affairs? So many people have different ideas and perceptions of what Public Affairs was supposed to do or is doing. Could you share with us, as a Public Affairs person, what you were trying to accomplish?

[User] Well, in our own case I think we were trying to really get the word out as much as possible and tell the truth as much as you could. You’re right, there was all sorts of conceptions about what Public Affairs was supposed to do or should be doing, and I think that’s probably still true and maybe even more so today.

[Assistant] Did you find yourself, or the other officers as well find themselves sometimes not knowing what direction to give information because the press was asking one thing and internally the employees might be expecting another one? How were you able to stay on your mission and provide that information in a timely manner?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That’s when he became, I guess, the White House correspondent because of [President] Lyndon [B.] Johnson.

[Assistant] During that time period when Public Affairs and you were evolving, what was the mission of Public Affairs? So many people have different ideas and perceptions of what Public Affairs was supposed to do or is doing. Could you share with us, as a Public Affairs person, what you were trying to accomplish?

[User] Well, in our own case I think we were trying to really get the word out as much as possible and tell the truth as much as you could. You’re right, there was all sorts of conceptions about what Public Affairs was supposed to do or should be doing, and I think that’s probably still true and maybe even more so today.

[Assistant] Did you find yourself, or the other officers as well find themselves sometimes not knowing what direction to give information because the press was asking one thing and internally the employees might be expecting another one? How were you able to stay on your mission and provide that information in a timely manner?

[User] Well, I think you did just the best you can, and you tried to make it as timely as you could.

[Assistant] Did every piece of information that came out of the Manned Spacecraft Center during those early days, did it come through the Public Affairs Office or each branch and directorate allowed to issue their own information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, in our own case I think we were trying to really get the word out as much as possible and tell the truth as much as you could. You’re right, there was all sorts of conceptions about what Public Affairs was supposed to do or should be doing, and I think that’s probably still true and maybe even more so today.

[Assistant] Did you find yourself, or the other officers as well find themselves sometimes not knowing what direction to give information because the press was asking one thing and internally the employees might be expecting another one? How were you able to stay on your mission and provide that information in a timely manner?

[User] Well, I think you did just the best you can, and you tried to make it as timely as you could.

[Assistant] Did every piece of information that came out of the Manned Spacecraft Center during those early days, did it come through the Public Affairs Office or each branch and directorate allowed to issue their own information?

[User] It was mainly through the Public Affairs or Public Information Office. Not totally, but I would say in the mainstream would be there.

[Assistant] Was there a guideline, say, from Dr. Gilruth or any other manager that said this is how internal and external communications will be handled?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think you did just the best you can, and you tried to make it as timely as you could.

[Assistant] Did every piece of information that came out of the Manned Spacecraft Center during those early days, did it come through the Public Affairs Office or each branch and directorate allowed to issue their own information?

[User] It was mainly through the Public Affairs or Public Information Office. Not totally, but I would say in the mainstream would be there.

[Assistant] Was there a guideline, say, from Dr. Gilruth or any other manager that said this is how internal and external communications will be handled?

[User] Not so much through Gilruth. Gilruth tended to be more of a hands-off kind of person, as I recall, as far as public affairs. I think he was always sort of fascinated by it. But in NASA Headquarters there was a fellow named Julian [W.] Scheer, and Scheer was very much involved as far as providing direction and so on. Then Paul [P.] Haney eventually had become the Public Affairs Officer in Houston.

[Assistant] Did Haney create a structure, a different structure than Shorty Powers once he got there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was mainly through the Public Affairs or Public Information Office. Not totally, but I would say in the mainstream would be there.

[Assistant] Was there a guideline, say, from Dr. Gilruth or any other manager that said this is how internal and external communications will be handled?

[User] Not so much through Gilruth. Gilruth tended to be more of a hands-off kind of person, as I recall, as far as public affairs. I think he was always sort of fascinated by it. But in NASA Headquarters there was a fellow named Julian [W.] Scheer, and Scheer was very much involved as far as providing direction and so on. Then Paul [P.] Haney eventually had become the Public Affairs Officer in Houston.

[Assistant] Did Haney create a structure, a different structure than Shorty Powers once he got there?

[User] Yes, I would say he did. I think Haney was probably a little better organized. Shorty was very fragmented in the way he had the organization going. Haney was probably not a great organization guy himself. Haney became very involved as far as the mission commentary. I later ended up as a mission commentator myself, and that was one of the jobs you had.

[Assistant] Did your role change when Mr. Haney took over? Did he move you into a different direction?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not so much through Gilruth. Gilruth tended to be more of a hands-off kind of person, as I recall, as far as public affairs. I think he was always sort of fascinated by it. But in NASA Headquarters there was a fellow named Julian [W.] Scheer, and Scheer was very much involved as far as providing direction and so on. Then Paul [P.] Haney eventually had become the Public Affairs Officer in Houston.

[Assistant] Did Haney create a structure, a different structure than Shorty Powers once he got there?

[User] Yes, I would say he did. I think Haney was probably a little better organized. Shorty was very fragmented in the way he had the organization going. Haney was probably not a great organization guy himself. Haney became very involved as far as the mission commentary. I later ended up as a mission commentator myself, and that was one of the jobs you had.

[Assistant] Did your role change when Mr. Haney took over? Did he move you into a different direction?

[User] I’m not sure he did at first. My boss for a while was a fellow named Howard Gibbons. He was the public information chief. Then Gibbons, I guess, got kind of moved aside, and then I became the Chief Of Public Information in—actually, I guess that was 1968.

[Assistant] Did you have a large staff?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I would say he did. I think Haney was probably a little better organized. Shorty was very fragmented in the way he had the organization going. Haney was probably not a great organization guy himself. Haney became very involved as far as the mission commentary. I later ended up as a mission commentator myself, and that was one of the jobs you had.

[Assistant] Did your role change when Mr. Haney took over? Did he move you into a different direction?

[User] I’m not sure he did at first. My boss for a while was a fellow named Howard Gibbons. He was the public information chief. Then Gibbons, I guess, got kind of moved aside, and then I became the Chief Of Public Information in—actually, I guess that was 1968.

[Assistant] Did you have a large staff?

[User] Reasonably sized, I’d say fifteen or sixteen people, plus the support contractor.

[Assistant] Could you share with us some of the equipment and how you handled to move information from the center? I think so many times when people look back on history, they forget that the technology is very historic as well. We didn’t have computers. We didn’t have fax machines. Could you share with us on how you were able to release some of that out?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I’m not sure he did at first. My boss for a while was a fellow named Howard Gibbons. He was the public information chief. Then Gibbons, I guess, got kind of moved aside, and then I became the Chief Of Public Information in—actually, I guess that was 1968.

[Assistant] Did you have a large staff?

[User] Reasonably sized, I’d say fifteen or sixteen people, plus the support contractor.

[Assistant] Could you share with us some of the equipment and how you handled to move information from the center? I think so many times when people look back on history, they forget that the technology is very historic as well. We didn’t have computers. We didn’t have fax machines. Could you share with us on how you were able to release some of that out?

[User] Well, there weren’t computers, that’s right, that we used back in those days. We were very big on mission commentary and the transcription of it. That became very much a major project, and putting together the way to make that come out in a timely fashion was very important. Let me think. Well, it was just a very important thing, that you wanted to make sure that you had it.

[Assistant] Was it somewhat labor-intensive as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Reasonably sized, I’d say fifteen or sixteen people, plus the support contractor.

[Assistant] Could you share with us some of the equipment and how you handled to move information from the center? I think so many times when people look back on history, they forget that the technology is very historic as well. We didn’t have computers. We didn’t have fax machines. Could you share with us on how you were able to release some of that out?

[User] Well, there weren’t computers, that’s right, that we used back in those days. We were very big on mission commentary and the transcription of it. That became very much a major project, and putting together the way to make that come out in a timely fashion was very important. Let me think. Well, it was just a very important thing, that you wanted to make sure that you had it.

[Assistant] Was it somewhat labor-intensive as well?

[User] Yes. Yes. Yes, we had these transcript typists, and they would be in these little booths and hopefully typing away and putting the stuff together accurately.

[Assistant] Was that real time or did they read off tapes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes. Yes, we had these transcript typists, and they would be in these little booths and hopefully typing away and putting the stuff together accurately.

[Assistant] Was that real time or did they read off tapes?

[User] No, that was real time. They were doing it as the mission was going on.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And that was different, you know. I don’t think they do that anymore.

[Assistant] Once the transcriptions were done, then were there copies made for the press?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, that was real time. They were doing it as the mission was going on.

[Assistant] Wow.

[User] And that was different, you know. I don’t think they do that anymore.

[Assistant] Once the transcriptions were done, then were there copies made for the press?

[User] Yes. That was the intent. The intent was to mass-reproduce them for the press. That would also include like we would have—what do they call them—during missions, change-of-shift news conferences or briefings. That would normally involve, say, a flight director like, say, a [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz or a [Christopher C.] Chris Kraft or whoever it was on duty at the time.

[Assistant] And where were these held?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And that was different, you know. I don’t think they do that anymore.

[Assistant] Once the transcriptions were done, then were there copies made for the press?

[User] Yes. That was the intent. The intent was to mass-reproduce them for the press. That would also include like we would have—what do they call them—during missions, change-of-shift news conferences or briefings. That would normally involve, say, a flight director like, say, a [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz or a [Christopher C.] Chris Kraft or whoever it was on duty at the time.

[Assistant] And where were these held?

[User] These were held, as it turned out, we had moved into what used to be Building 1, which became Building 2, I think, and they were held in there, in that small conference room. I don’t know, you’ve probably seen it, I’ll bet.

[Assistant] And during that time period because everything was new and things continued to change, how were press credentials handed out and how did you certify who was allowed to come on site to participate in those news conferences? How was that all handled?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. That was the intent. The intent was to mass-reproduce them for the press. That would also include like we would have—what do they call them—during missions, change-of-shift news conferences or briefings. That would normally involve, say, a flight director like, say, a [Eugene F.] Gene Kranz or a [Christopher C.] Chris Kraft or whoever it was on duty at the time.

[Assistant] And where were these held?

[User] These were held, as it turned out, we had moved into what used to be Building 1, which became Building 2, I think, and they were held in there, in that small conference room. I don’t know, you’ve probably seen it, I’ll bet.

[Assistant] And during that time period because everything was new and things continued to change, how were press credentials handed out and how did you certify who was allowed to come on site to participate in those news conferences? How was that all handled?

[User] Well, you did a combination of things. I guess you had some that would come from NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], some from [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], and some from Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] , and some from JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. You’d normally just certify them. Someone like myself would look at it and say, “Okay, this guy is okay,” or, “This one is not.” That was pretty much the way. It was a judgmental call, most of it.

[Assistant] Did you have quite a few, once the missions started, since Gemini IV, once the missions started being controlled from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at MSC?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] These were held, as it turned out, we had moved into what used to be Building 1, which became Building 2, I think, and they were held in there, in that small conference room. I don’t know, you’ve probably seen it, I’ll bet.

[Assistant] And during that time period because everything was new and things continued to change, how were press credentials handed out and how did you certify who was allowed to come on site to participate in those news conferences? How was that all handled?

[User] Well, you did a combination of things. I guess you had some that would come from NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], some from [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], and some from Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] , and some from JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. You’d normally just certify them. Someone like myself would look at it and say, “Okay, this guy is okay,” or, “This one is not.” That was pretty much the way. It was a judgmental call, most of it.

[Assistant] Did you have quite a few, once the missions started, since Gemini IV, once the missions started being controlled from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at MSC?

[User] Yes, we did. I would say the peak number was probably Apollo 11, and we had maybe 1,200, 1,500 press. It was a very, very busy time.\n\n Then, of course, Apollo 13 was turned out into a whole different world.

[Assistant] Yes, it did. Yes, it did. What other materials were available for the press during the Gemini-Apollo time? You mentioned that mission transcriptions. Did you also have press kits available for them at the time before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you did a combination of things. I guess you had some that would come from NASA Headquarters [Washington, D.C.], some from [NASA] Marshall [Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Alabama], and some from Kennedy [Space Center, Florida] , and some from JSC [Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas]. You’d normally just certify them. Someone like myself would look at it and say, “Okay, this guy is okay,” or, “This one is not.” That was pretty much the way. It was a judgmental call, most of it.

[Assistant] Did you have quite a few, once the missions started, since Gemini IV, once the missions started being controlled from the MOCR [Mission Operations Control Room] at MSC?

[User] Yes, we did. I would say the peak number was probably Apollo 11, and we had maybe 1,200, 1,500 press. It was a very, very busy time.\n\n Then, of course, Apollo 13 was turned out into a whole different world.

[Assistant] Yes, it did. Yes, it did. What other materials were available for the press during the Gemini-Apollo time? You mentioned that mission transcriptions. Did you also have press kits available for them at the time before?

[User] Yes. Yes. You had press kits that were released before. That’s correct.

[Assistant] Was that all under your operation as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, we did. I would say the peak number was probably Apollo 11, and we had maybe 1,200, 1,500 press. It was a very, very busy time.\n\n Then, of course, Apollo 13 was turned out into a whole different world.

[Assistant] Yes, it did. Yes, it did. What other materials were available for the press during the Gemini-Apollo time? You mentioned that mission transcriptions. Did you also have press kits available for them at the time before?

[User] Yes. Yes. You had press kits that were released before. That’s correct.

[Assistant] Was that all under your operation as well?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] The information that belonged in that press kit, where did that come from?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes. You had press kits that were released before. That’s correct.

[Assistant] Was that all under your operation as well?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] The information that belonged in that press kit, where did that come from?

[User] That came from a combination of places, mainly from JSC or from the MSC, whatever we were at the time. But most of it originated from with us.

[Assistant] Was Public Affairs still segmented into the different areas then? For instance, did the Industry Communications give you information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] The information that belonged in that press kit, where did that come from?

[User] That came from a combination of places, mainly from JSC or from the MSC, whatever we were at the time. But most of it originated from with us.

[Assistant] Was Public Affairs still segmented into the different areas then? For instance, did the Industry Communications give you information?

[User] No. No. That had gone away. That had become sort of a subactivity within the Public Information Branch.

[Assistant] The information about the hardware or about the spacecraft or space suits, the technical information, where did your staff get that information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That came from a combination of places, mainly from JSC or from the MSC, whatever we were at the time. But most of it originated from with us.

[Assistant] Was Public Affairs still segmented into the different areas then? For instance, did the Industry Communications give you information?

[User] No. No. That had gone away. That had become sort of a subactivity within the Public Information Branch.

[Assistant] The information about the hardware or about the spacecraft or space suits, the technical information, where did your staff get that information?

[User] Well, you got it mainly from the contractors. Like the space suit, for example, was from—I’m trying to recall who the contractor was. I think it was—was it Latex [International Latex Corporation]? Might have been. But that kind of information mainly came from the contractors.

[Assistant] Did you ever travel to the contractors’ facilities to do those?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. No. That had gone away. That had become sort of a subactivity within the Public Information Branch.

[Assistant] The information about the hardware or about the spacecraft or space suits, the technical information, where did your staff get that information?

[User] Well, you got it mainly from the contractors. Like the space suit, for example, was from—I’m trying to recall who the contractor was. I think it was—was it Latex [International Latex Corporation]? Might have been. But that kind of information mainly came from the contractors.

[Assistant] Did you ever travel to the contractors’ facilities to do those?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Is there one that was more memorable to you than others that you remember going and actually witnessing the making of the equipment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you got it mainly from the contractors. Like the space suit, for example, was from—I’m trying to recall who the contractor was. I think it was—was it Latex [International Latex Corporation]? Might have been. But that kind of information mainly came from the contractors.

[Assistant] Did you ever travel to the contractors’ facilities to do those?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Is there one that was more memorable to you than others that you remember going and actually witnessing the making of the equipment?

[User] Well, I’m trying to recall if there was. I went to Rockwell, or North American [North American Rockwell Incorporated] several times and had gone to Grumman at least once or twice and to McDonnell [McDonnell Douglas Corporation] a time or two.

[Assistant] Was this to gain information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I’m trying to recall if there was. I went to Rockwell, or North American [North American Rockwell Incorporated] several times and had gone to Grumman at least once or twice and to McDonnell [McDonnell Douglas Corporation] a time or two.

[Assistant] Was this to gain information?

[User] Yes, mainly. Mainly.

[Assistant] An understanding?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did those trips help you later when you were doing commentary?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, mainly. Mainly.

[Assistant] An understanding?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did those trips help you later when you were doing commentary?

[User] Yes, they would help. They did help, indeed.

[Assistant] Regarding the responsibility of Public Affairs in external release information, did you help train other employees at the MSC in what they could or could not say to the press, for instance, the flight directors or the flight controllers or the engineers, those type of people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did those trips help you later when you were doing commentary?

[User] Yes, they would help. They did help, indeed.

[Assistant] Regarding the responsibility of Public Affairs in external release information, did you help train other employees at the MSC in what they could or could not say to the press, for instance, the flight directors or the flight controllers or the engineers, those type of people?

[User] Yes, maybe to a limited point. It turns out the flight directors were usually pretty savvy in their own right. I don’t think you needed to give much training, say, to a Gene Kranz or to a Chris Kraft, for example, or even like [Sigurd A.] Sig Sjoberg. But, yes, you did some of it, but it was not a major thing by any stretch.

[Assistant] But it was your office that set up the news conferences?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they would help. They did help, indeed.

[Assistant] Regarding the responsibility of Public Affairs in external release information, did you help train other employees at the MSC in what they could or could not say to the press, for instance, the flight directors or the flight controllers or the engineers, those type of people?

[User] Yes, maybe to a limited point. It turns out the flight directors were usually pretty savvy in their own right. I don’t think you needed to give much training, say, to a Gene Kranz or to a Chris Kraft, for example, or even like [Sigurd A.] Sig Sjoberg. But, yes, you did some of it, but it was not a major thing by any stretch.

[Assistant] But it was your office that set up the news conferences?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Tell us how that happened. When were they done as far as a mission was concerned? Was it prior and during and after?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, maybe to a limited point. It turns out the flight directors were usually pretty savvy in their own right. I don’t think you needed to give much training, say, to a Gene Kranz or to a Chris Kraft, for example, or even like [Sigurd A.] Sig Sjoberg. But, yes, you did some of it, but it was not a major thing by any stretch.

[Assistant] But it was your office that set up the news conferences?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Tell us how that happened. When were they done as far as a mission was concerned? Was it prior and during and after?

[User] Well, it was prior, during, and after. It was all three. We had the astronauts, we would normally set up the crew, the next crew to fly, and that was done sometime in advance of the mission, usually a couple of weeks in advance or maybe three or four at the most. We would normally do that two ways. We would have the news conference plus what we called round-robin interviews where major networks, for example, and publications would be able to interview them individually, each astronaut.

[Assistant] Was this all still confined in the news conference room?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Tell us how that happened. When were they done as far as a mission was concerned? Was it prior and during and after?

[User] Well, it was prior, during, and after. It was all three. We had the astronauts, we would normally set up the crew, the next crew to fly, and that was done sometime in advance of the mission, usually a couple of weeks in advance or maybe three or four at the most. We would normally do that two ways. We would have the news conference plus what we called round-robin interviews where major networks, for example, and publications would be able to interview them individually, each astronaut.

[Assistant] Was this all still confined in the news conference room?

[User] Well, it wasn’t in the news conference room. It was more in the offices around what used to be Building 1, now Building 2. We would use some of the offices and do them that way.

[Assistant] During the missions when you held the conferences, was there a formal announcement of when the conferences were going to be held?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it was prior, during, and after. It was all three. We had the astronauts, we would normally set up the crew, the next crew to fly, and that was done sometime in advance of the mission, usually a couple of weeks in advance or maybe three or four at the most. We would normally do that two ways. We would have the news conference plus what we called round-robin interviews where major networks, for example, and publications would be able to interview them individually, each astronaut.

[Assistant] Was this all still confined in the news conference room?

[User] Well, it wasn’t in the news conference room. It was more in the offices around what used to be Building 1, now Building 2. We would use some of the offices and do them that way.

[Assistant] During the missions when you held the conferences, was there a formal announcement of when the conferences were going to be held?

[User] Yes. We would normally put it out over the public information loop, just announce that the next news conference will be next change. We called them change-of-shift briefings.

[Assistant] The interest of the public continued to increase during the Mercury and Gemini days, of course. Did that affect the Public Affairs Office? Did the public start to send inquiries, or did they want visits and tours?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it wasn’t in the news conference room. It was more in the offices around what used to be Building 1, now Building 2. We would use some of the offices and do them that way.

[Assistant] During the missions when you held the conferences, was there a formal announcement of when the conferences were going to be held?

[User] Yes. We would normally put it out over the public information loop, just announce that the next news conference will be next change. We called them change-of-shift briefings.

[Assistant] The interest of the public continued to increase during the Mercury and Gemini days, of course. Did that affect the Public Affairs Office? Did the public start to send inquiries, or did they want visits and tours?

[User] Yes, I think we had probably an increasing number of tours. I was not involved in the tourist program, but I think we did have a lot of tourists that came about because of the increase in interest, certainly up through Apollo 11 and I guess again through Apollo 13. Apollo 14, of course, that was the [Alan B.] Al Shepard mission.

[Assistant] Out of the special events and ceremonies and things, was any of those duties under your control as well, or was that a different area of Public Affairs?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. We would normally put it out over the public information loop, just announce that the next news conference will be next change. We called them change-of-shift briefings.

[Assistant] The interest of the public continued to increase during the Mercury and Gemini days, of course. Did that affect the Public Affairs Office? Did the public start to send inquiries, or did they want visits and tours?

[User] Yes, I think we had probably an increasing number of tours. I was not involved in the tourist program, but I think we did have a lot of tourists that came about because of the increase in interest, certainly up through Apollo 11 and I guess again through Apollo 13. Apollo 14, of course, that was the [Alan B.] Al Shepard mission.

[Assistant] Out of the special events and ceremonies and things, was any of those duties under your control as well, or was that a different area of Public Affairs?

[User] When you say duties—

[Assistant] If you had some special events, maybe when the president came to the Center.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I think we had probably an increasing number of tours. I was not involved in the tourist program, but I think we did have a lot of tourists that came about because of the increase in interest, certainly up through Apollo 11 and I guess again through Apollo 13. Apollo 14, of course, that was the [Alan B.] Al Shepard mission.

[Assistant] Out of the special events and ceremonies and things, was any of those duties under your control as well, or was that a different area of Public Affairs?

[User] When you say duties—

[Assistant] If you had some special events, maybe when the president came to the Center.

[User] Well, we got very involved in that, yes. I guess [President Richard M.] Nixon was there several times, and we became involved with that. The first time he showed up, though, he showed up as a candidate, and I think that was, when, [19]‘68. He showed up as a candidate and the fellow who later became his press secretary—name escapes me. I’ll think of it later.\n\n But in any case, he was there. I thought he was sort of a kind of low guy on the totem pole because he was on the press bus. A fellow named Bill Plant, who still works for, I think, CBS [Incorporated], was kind of ordering him around, telling him what to do, and this sort of thing. But I did ride the press bus with them, and we got involved in that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Early in the history of the program at MSC, Time-\n\n Life\n\n was granted an exclusive agreement with the astronauts to do their stories.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When you say duties—

[Assistant] If you had some special events, maybe when the president came to the Center.

[User] Well, we got very involved in that, yes. I guess [President Richard M.] Nixon was there several times, and we became involved with that. The first time he showed up, though, he showed up as a candidate, and I think that was, when, [19]‘68. He showed up as a candidate and the fellow who later became his press secretary—name escapes me. I’ll think of it later.\n\n But in any case, he was there. I thought he was sort of a kind of low guy on the totem pole because he was on the press bus. A fellow named Bill Plant, who still works for, I think, CBS [Incorporated], was kind of ordering him around, telling him what to do, and this sort of thing. But I did ride the press bus with them, and we got involved in that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Early in the history of the program at MSC, Time-\n\n Life\n\n was granted an exclusive agreement with the astronauts to do their stories.

[User] Yes, they were.

[Assistant] How did this affect the Public Affairs Office? Did it make your job easier or did it give you extra—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we got very involved in that, yes. I guess [President Richard M.] Nixon was there several times, and we became involved with that. The first time he showed up, though, he showed up as a candidate, and I think that was, when, [19]‘68. He showed up as a candidate and the fellow who later became his press secretary—name escapes me. I’ll think of it later.\n\n But in any case, he was there. I thought he was sort of a kind of low guy on the totem pole because he was on the press bus. A fellow named Bill Plant, who still works for, I think, CBS [Incorporated], was kind of ordering him around, telling him what to do, and this sort of thing. But I did ride the press bus with them, and we got involved in that kind of thing.

[Assistant] Early in the history of the program at MSC, Time-\n\n Life\n\n was granted an exclusive agreement with the astronauts to do their stories.

[User] Yes, they were.

[Assistant] How did this affect the Public Affairs Office? Did it make your job easier or did it give you extra—

[User] It probably gave you a few heartburns, the reason being that it’s like they had exclusive rights to stories. That was\n\n Life\n\n mainly. It was\n\n Life\n\n magazine.\n\n Then later I guess it was\n\n World Book\n\n became involved, too, and that was more of a Houston operation. They were set up in Houston. But we worked with the\n\n Life\n\n people reasonably well, I think. A fellow named Ralph Morse was one of their star photographers, and Ralph, we worked out arrangements where he might shoot things and also kind of function as a pool, and we would release some of his photos. So we tried to work around as much as we could.

[Assistant] You used the word “heartburn,” so I guess it had pros and cons.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, they were.

[Assistant] How did this affect the Public Affairs Office? Did it make your job easier or did it give you extra—

[User] It probably gave you a few heartburns, the reason being that it’s like they had exclusive rights to stories. That was\n\n Life\n\n mainly. It was\n\n Life\n\n magazine.\n\n Then later I guess it was\n\n World Book\n\n became involved, too, and that was more of a Houston operation. They were set up in Houston. But we worked with the\n\n Life\n\n people reasonably well, I think. A fellow named Ralph Morse was one of their star photographers, and Ralph, we worked out arrangements where he might shoot things and also kind of function as a pool, and we would release some of his photos. So we tried to work around as much as we could.

[Assistant] You used the word “heartburn,” so I guess it had pros and cons.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did the other media accept the fact that—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It probably gave you a few heartburns, the reason being that it’s like they had exclusive rights to stories. That was\n\n Life\n\n mainly. It was\n\n Life\n\n magazine.\n\n Then later I guess it was\n\n World Book\n\n became involved, too, and that was more of a Houston operation. They were set up in Houston. But we worked with the\n\n Life\n\n people reasonably well, I think. A fellow named Ralph Morse was one of their star photographers, and Ralph, we worked out arrangements where he might shoot things and also kind of function as a pool, and we would release some of his photos. So we tried to work around as much as we could.

[Assistant] You used the word “heartburn,” so I guess it had pros and cons.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did the other media accept the fact that—

[User] I don’t think they liked it. No, they didn’t like it. It was more like an exclusive right to interview the—well, it also evolved into the families, too.

[Assistant] What was your first encounter with working with the astronauts, or how did you help set those procedures up so that they would work well with the media as well as the media could at least know that the astronauts should have some privacy as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How did the other media accept the fact that—

[User] I don’t think they liked it. No, they didn’t like it. It was more like an exclusive right to interview the—well, it also evolved into the families, too.

[Assistant] What was your first encounter with working with the astronauts, or how did you help set those procedures up so that they would work well with the media as well as the media could at least know that the astronauts should have some privacy as well?

[User] Well, let’s see. I became involved with the astronauts in a variety of ways. One, I’d gone on some of the geology field trips with them, to Hawaii was one of more memorable ones. We went to the Big Island of Hawaii, and that was very interesting. I guess they had a couple of teams there. One was the [Charles C.] Pete Conrad group, and then the Neil [A.] Armstrong group. But you became involved in that kind of thing some.\n\n But over a period of time, you just kind of put procedures in place much as we had done with the air-to-ground mission commentary stuff as far as setting up the preflight news conferences. Those were kind of known to have to occur and were accepted. You dealt mainly, I guess, with Alan Shepard, because he was functioning more as Chief of the Astronaut Office for a good period of time.

[Assistant] So when you came up with a procedure, did you take it to Shepard and worked out the details that way?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t think they liked it. No, they didn’t like it. It was more like an exclusive right to interview the—well, it also evolved into the families, too.

[Assistant] What was your first encounter with working with the astronauts, or how did you help set those procedures up so that they would work well with the media as well as the media could at least know that the astronauts should have some privacy as well?

[User] Well, let’s see. I became involved with the astronauts in a variety of ways. One, I’d gone on some of the geology field trips with them, to Hawaii was one of more memorable ones. We went to the Big Island of Hawaii, and that was very interesting. I guess they had a couple of teams there. One was the [Charles C.] Pete Conrad group, and then the Neil [A.] Armstrong group. But you became involved in that kind of thing some.\n\n But over a period of time, you just kind of put procedures in place much as we had done with the air-to-ground mission commentary stuff as far as setting up the preflight news conferences. Those were kind of known to have to occur and were accepted. You dealt mainly, I guess, with Alan Shepard, because he was functioning more as Chief of the Astronaut Office for a good period of time.

[Assistant] So when you came up with a procedure, did you take it to Shepard and worked out the details that way?

[User] Yes, that’s pretty much the way it turned out.

[Assistant] How was the reception from the astronauts of PAO involvement? Was it something that they considered to be an asset and a benefit or something as a hindrance and an interference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that’s pretty much the way it turned out.

[Assistant] How was the reception from the astronauts of PAO involvement? Was it something that they considered to be an asset and a benefit or something as a hindrance and an interference?

[User] I think sort of a mixed bag, if you want my opinion. I think some thought it was very important, some probably did not.\n\n Armstrong I found as an extremely interesting guy. I was in quarantine with the Apollo 11 crew after they’d returned from the Moon, and that’s when he had that famous quote, “That’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.” I know I kept watching things. You’d see these promos on TV where it looked like he had dropped the A. Well, I talked to him about it in quarantine. I asked him what he said.\n\n He said, “Well, I know what I meant to say.” He said, “I meant to say, ‘It’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind,’” and that’s kind of the way we played it.

[Assistant] I know that based on reading and research that there seemed to be a perception of tension sometimes between what Public Affairs suggested to happen or want to happen and what engineers or flight controllers or even flight directors would have liked to happen and, of course, in many cases astronauts. One example would be the Apollo 7 flight when Schirra canceled the broadcast of the TV. Can you share some details about that?

[User] Yes. I remember that, but not in that much detail. I think that was more of a combination of Schirra becoming angry with the flight controllers. Because I think Chris Kraft may have ended up getting on the line with him, one of these private lines, and giving him hell, giving Schirra hell. Because Glynn [S.] Lunney, I believe, is the flight director that became directly involved, and I know Lunney was very upset at the time.

[Assistant] I’d like to move into possibly asking some questions about specific missions.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think sort of a mixed bag, if you want my opinion. I think some thought it was very important, some probably did not.\n\n Armstrong I found as an extremely interesting guy. I was in quarantine with the Apollo 11 crew after they’d returned from the Moon, and that’s when he had that famous quote, “That’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.” I know I kept watching things. You’d see these promos on TV where it looked like he had dropped the A. Well, I talked to him about it in quarantine. I asked him what he said.\n\n He said, “Well, I know what I meant to say.” He said, “I meant to say, ‘It’s one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind,’” and that’s kind of the way we played it.

[Assistant] I know that based on reading and research that there seemed to be a perception of tension sometimes between what Public Affairs suggested to happen or want to happen and what engineers or flight controllers or even flight directors would have liked to happen and, of course, in many cases astronauts. One example would be the Apollo 7 flight when Schirra canceled the broadcast of the TV. Can you share some details about that?

[User] Yes. I remember that, but not in that much detail. I think that was more of a combination of Schirra becoming angry with the flight controllers. Because I think Chris Kraft may have ended up getting on the line with him, one of these private lines, and giving him hell, giving Schirra hell. Because Glynn [S.] Lunney, I believe, is the flight director that became directly involved, and I know Lunney was very upset at the time.

[Assistant] I’d like to move into possibly asking some questions about specific missions.

[User] Okay, sure.

[Assistant] Because you’ve given us some understanding of how the organization was set up, and as we work through this we can gather a few more details.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I remember that, but not in that much detail. I think that was more of a combination of Schirra becoming angry with the flight controllers. Because I think Chris Kraft may have ended up getting on the line with him, one of these private lines, and giving him hell, giving Schirra hell. Because Glynn [S.] Lunney, I believe, is the flight director that became directly involved, and I know Lunney was very upset at the time.

[Assistant] I’d like to move into possibly asking some questions about specific missions.

[User] Okay, sure.

[Assistant] Because you’ve given us some understanding of how the organization was set up, and as we work through this we can gather a few more details.

[User] Okay, sure.

[Assistant] Because what we’ve also found is there’s not a lot of history about the Public Affairs Office and how it was formed, and the procedures and where they came from. A lot of people would like to say common sense will tell us that procedures evolved because of necessity, but it’s also nice to hear from an expert that was there how those happened.\n\n When Gemini IV operations moved to the MOCR, apparently the duties of the Public Affairs Office changed somewhat because it was a new time for the MSC.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay, sure.

[Assistant] Because you’ve given us some understanding of how the organization was set up, and as we work through this we can gather a few more details.

[User] Okay, sure.

[Assistant] Because what we’ve also found is there’s not a lot of history about the Public Affairs Office and how it was formed, and the procedures and where they came from. A lot of people would like to say common sense will tell us that procedures evolved because of necessity, but it’s also nice to hear from an expert that was there how those happened.\n\n When Gemini IV operations moved to the MOCR, apparently the duties of the Public Affairs Office changed somewhat because it was a new time for the MSC.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could you share with us the differences of what had happened prior to that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay, sure.

[Assistant] Because what we’ve also found is there’s not a lot of history about the Public Affairs Office and how it was formed, and the procedures and where they came from. A lot of people would like to say common sense will tell us that procedures evolved because of necessity, but it’s also nice to hear from an expert that was there how those happened.\n\n When Gemini IV operations moved to the MOCR, apparently the duties of the Public Affairs Office changed somewhat because it was a new time for the MSC.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could you share with us the differences of what had happened prior to that time?

[User] Well, prior to that, all of the missions were launched and controlled at Kennedy. Then when you moved and you moved the control center to Houston, well, that changed the whole world. It changed it basically where I guess you had the pre-launch coming from Kennedy, and then once it was launched, the responsibility switched immediately to Houston, which, as a consequence, meant that normally you’d have someone say, “Houston is now controlling.” It was a nice lead-in line that I would use some as a commentator, and that would just kind of tend to tell you where you were.

[Assistant] How did you prepare for that role? That was a totally new role for you to do as a commentator. Share with us how that happened and what was the purpose of that and what did you want to accomplish as you were a commentator for the Gemini Program.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Could you share with us the differences of what had happened prior to that time?

[User] Well, prior to that, all of the missions were launched and controlled at Kennedy. Then when you moved and you moved the control center to Houston, well, that changed the whole world. It changed it basically where I guess you had the pre-launch coming from Kennedy, and then once it was launched, the responsibility switched immediately to Houston, which, as a consequence, meant that normally you’d have someone say, “Houston is now controlling.” It was a nice lead-in line that I would use some as a commentator, and that would just kind of tend to tell you where you were.

[Assistant] How did you prepare for that role? That was a totally new role for you to do as a commentator. Share with us how that happened and what was the purpose of that and what did you want to accomplish as you were a commentator for the Gemini Program.

[User] Well, I guess I didn’t really become a commentator until later in Gemini. But on Gemini IV—I guess that may been Paul Haney who was the first commentator, I think, but I wouldn’t swear to it.\n\n What you tried to do was tell as much about the mission as you could. I had become fairly good as a launch commentator, and that was kind of an exciting time to me, once you became involved with particularly in Apollo where you had all those three stages and all that power and so on and you’re sitting in Houston and that’s all happening in Florida. But, yes, I think it was an important assignment and somebody should do it and do it well, and I tried to do it as best I could.

[Assistant] Where were you located when you were doing the commentary?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, prior to that, all of the missions were launched and controlled at Kennedy. Then when you moved and you moved the control center to Houston, well, that changed the whole world. It changed it basically where I guess you had the pre-launch coming from Kennedy, and then once it was launched, the responsibility switched immediately to Houston, which, as a consequence, meant that normally you’d have someone say, “Houston is now controlling.” It was a nice lead-in line that I would use some as a commentator, and that would just kind of tend to tell you where you were.

[Assistant] How did you prepare for that role? That was a totally new role for you to do as a commentator. Share with us how that happened and what was the purpose of that and what did you want to accomplish as you were a commentator for the Gemini Program.

[User] Well, I guess I didn’t really become a commentator until later in Gemini. But on Gemini IV—I guess that may been Paul Haney who was the first commentator, I think, but I wouldn’t swear to it.\n\n What you tried to do was tell as much about the mission as you could. I had become fairly good as a launch commentator, and that was kind of an exciting time to me, once you became involved with particularly in Apollo where you had all those three stages and all that power and so on and you’re sitting in Houston and that’s all happening in Florida. But, yes, I think it was an important assignment and somebody should do it and do it well, and I tried to do it as best I could.

[Assistant] Where were you located when you were doing the commentary?

[User] In the control center in Houston.

[Assistant] And you had your own console that you sat at?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I guess I didn’t really become a commentator until later in Gemini. But on Gemini IV—I guess that may been Paul Haney who was the first commentator, I think, but I wouldn’t swear to it.\n\n What you tried to do was tell as much about the mission as you could. I had become fairly good as a launch commentator, and that was kind of an exciting time to me, once you became involved with particularly in Apollo where you had all those three stages and all that power and so on and you’re sitting in Houston and that’s all happening in Florida. But, yes, I think it was an important assignment and somebody should do it and do it well, and I tried to do it as best I could.

[Assistant] Where were you located when you were doing the commentary?

[User] In the control center in Houston.

[Assistant] And you had your own console that you sat at?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] And how long was your shift that you were on?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In the control center in Houston.

[Assistant] And you had your own console that you sat at?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] And how long was your shift that you were on?

[User] Well, it varied. I, unfortunately, was also a commentator during the Apollo 13 explosion, and that was a terrible time. It was an awful night.

[Assistant] Well, let’s talk about Apollo 13, since you brought it up.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] And how long was your shift that you were on?

[User] Well, it varied. I, unfortunately, was also a commentator during the Apollo 13 explosion, and that was a terrible time. It was an awful night.

[Assistant] Well, let’s talk about Apollo 13, since you brought it up.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] You were doing your shift as a commentator.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Okay.

[Assistant] You were doing your shift as a commentator.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And?

[User] And I thought I was getting ready to break shift and go home and be happy, and then all of a sudden it’s “Houston, we’ve got a problem,” came across, and that was [James A.] Lovell. And they sure had one.

[Assistant] How long were you there on this shift that now had just become extended?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And?

[User] And I thought I was getting ready to break shift and go home and be happy, and then all of a sudden it’s “Houston, we’ve got a problem,” came across, and that was [James A.] Lovell. And they sure had one.

[Assistant] How long were you there on this shift that now had just become extended?

[User] I don’t recall exactly how long, maybe ten, twelve hours, but I did finally go home and had a couple of belts of good ones and tried to sleep. Because then everything sort of switched pretty rapidly. That’s when they reactivated a pool assignment, because I guess there was a real belief that this crew may not come back.

[Assistant] You mentioned to the reactivation of the pool assignment. Let’s step back just for a second. When the MOCR opened and the commentary was done by a Public Affairs Office specialist, where did you put the press during that time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I thought I was getting ready to break shift and go home and be happy, and then all of a sudden it’s “Houston, we’ve got a problem,” came across, and that was [James A.] Lovell. And they sure had one.

[Assistant] How long were you there on this shift that now had just become extended?

[User] I don’t recall exactly how long, maybe ten, twelve hours, but I did finally go home and had a couple of belts of good ones and tried to sleep. Because then everything sort of switched pretty rapidly. That’s when they reactivated a pool assignment, because I guess there was a real belief that this crew may not come back.

[Assistant] You mentioned to the reactivation of the pool assignment. Let’s step back just for a second. When the MOCR opened and the commentary was done by a Public Affairs Office specialist, where did you put the press during that time?

[User] They were mainly in the news center over in Building 2.

[Assistant] They were listening to your commentary?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I don’t recall exactly how long, maybe ten, twelve hours, but I did finally go home and had a couple of belts of good ones and tried to sleep. Because then everything sort of switched pretty rapidly. That’s when they reactivated a pool assignment, because I guess there was a real belief that this crew may not come back.

[Assistant] You mentioned to the reactivation of the pool assignment. Let’s step back just for a second. When the MOCR opened and the commentary was done by a Public Affairs Office specialist, where did you put the press during that time?

[User] They were mainly in the news center over in Building 2.

[Assistant] They were listening to your commentary?

[User] Yes. Yes, they would listen it there. Now, it turns out, oddly enough, and it was maybe very timely, the first time we had a pool located in the control center was Apollo 13, which turned out it gave you some opportunity for candor, and they could see that you weren’t lying.

[Assistant] That was quite a few missions that had occurred from the first time you had Gemini IV to Apollo 13.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] They were mainly in the news center over in Building 2.

[Assistant] They were listening to your commentary?

[User] Yes. Yes, they would listen it there. Now, it turns out, oddly enough, and it was maybe very timely, the first time we had a pool located in the control center was Apollo 13, which turned out it gave you some opportunity for candor, and they could see that you weren’t lying.

[Assistant] That was quite a few missions that had occurred from the first time you had Gemini IV to Apollo 13.

[User] Yes, that’s right. That’s correct.

[Assistant] How did the pool begin? How did their place happen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that’s right. That’s correct.

[Assistant] How did the pool begin? How did their place happen?

[User] Well, there was kind of a constant pressure for a pool on the part of the press, and we tried to make it very simple. We had one writer and one—

[Assistant] Broadcast?

[User] —broadcast, and that was it. We said, “Okay, you’re the pool.”

[Assistant] And who selected those people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, there was kind of a constant pressure for a pool on the part of the press, and we tried to make it very simple. We had one writer and one—

[Assistant] Broadcast?

[User] —broadcast, and that was it. We said, “Okay, you’re the pool.”

[Assistant] And who selected those people?

[User] We let them do it among themselves. You almost had to do it that way, I guess.

[Assistant] Did they take turns for each mission?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] —broadcast, and that was it. We said, “Okay, you’re the pool.”

[Assistant] And who selected those people?

[User] We let them do it among themselves. You almost had to do it that way, I guess.

[Assistant] Did they take turns for each mission?

[User] Yes. Well, I think once they decided that things had started to go down or not become as tense as you saw on 13, the pool kind of went away again. It became a much more dormant thing.

[Assistant] Did you find that it assisted Public Affairs officers to have that pool?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We let them do it among themselves. You almost had to do it that way, I guess.

[Assistant] Did they take turns for each mission?

[User] Yes. Well, I think once they decided that things had started to go down or not become as tense as you saw on 13, the pool kind of went away again. It became a much more dormant thing.

[Assistant] Did you find that it assisted Public Affairs officers to have that pool?

[User] Yes, I thought it did, because again, it kind of made you appear open and like you have candor.

[Assistant] Where were they located in the Mission Control Center?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Well, I think once they decided that things had started to go down or not become as tense as you saw on 13, the pool kind of went away again. It became a much more dormant thing.

[Assistant] Did you find that it assisted Public Affairs officers to have that pool?

[User] Yes, I thought it did, because again, it kind of made you appear open and like you have candor.

[Assistant] Where were they located in the Mission Control Center?

[User] There was a little side booth up in—well, I guess they’re in a different area now, I think. But in the old MOCR, in the second and third floor there was a little booth where you put them.

[Assistant] They were just left alone to view?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I thought it did, because again, it kind of made you appear open and like you have candor.

[Assistant] Where were they located in the Mission Control Center?

[User] There was a little side booth up in—well, I guess they’re in a different area now, I think. But in the old MOCR, in the second and third floor there was a little booth where you put them.

[Assistant] They were just left alone to view?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they have the opportunity to hear all the loops?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There was a little side booth up in—well, I guess they’re in a different area now, I think. But in the old MOCR, in the second and third floor there was a little booth where you put them.

[Assistant] They were just left alone to view?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they have the opportunity to hear all the loops?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Or were there selective loops that were in there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Did they have the opportunity to hear all the loops?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Or were there selective loops that were in there?

[User] Well, they heard the flight director’s loop.

[Assistant] They could see the viewing screens as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Or were there selective loops that were in there?

[User] Well, they heard the flight director’s loop.

[Assistant] They could see the viewing screens as well?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Then their job was to come back and meet with the other reporters and share that information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they heard the flight director’s loop.

[Assistant] They could see the viewing screens as well?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Then their job was to come back and meet with the other reporters and share that information?

[User] Yes. Either that or put it on as far as the—I think a fellow named Roy Neal became very active as the pool correspondent for the television. But that got a little tricky, too, from their own behalf because you had the NBC guy. You couldn’t necessarily have him with ABC or CBS necessarily, so they tended to sort of play that out as—I guess anonymously.

[Assistant] Did you facilitate the news conferences?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Then their job was to come back and meet with the other reporters and share that information?

[User] Yes. Either that or put it on as far as the—I think a fellow named Roy Neal became very active as the pool correspondent for the television. But that got a little tricky, too, from their own behalf because you had the NBC guy. You couldn’t necessarily have him with ABC or CBS necessarily, so they tended to sort of play that out as—I guess anonymously.

[Assistant] Did you facilitate the news conferences?

[User] Did I facilitate them?

[Assistant] The news conferences or did the flight directors facilitate them? Who actually handled—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Either that or put it on as far as the—I think a fellow named Roy Neal became very active as the pool correspondent for the television. But that got a little tricky, too, from their own behalf because you had the NBC guy. You couldn’t necessarily have him with ABC or CBS necessarily, so they tended to sort of play that out as—I guess anonymously.

[Assistant] Did you facilitate the news conferences?

[User] Did I facilitate them?

[Assistant] The news conferences or did the flight directors facilitate them? Who actually handled—

[User] No, we ran them. Yes, we ran the news conferences. We would have one of our people as the moderator.

[Assistant] Was there a beginning and end time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Did I facilitate them?

[Assistant] The news conferences or did the flight directors facilitate them? Who actually handled—

[User] No, we ran them. Yes, we ran the news conferences. We would have one of our people as the moderator.

[Assistant] Was there a beginning and end time?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So at least they would know that you were going to start and stop at the same time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, we ran them. Yes, we ran the news conferences. We would have one of our people as the moderator.

[Assistant] Was there a beginning and end time?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So at least they would know that you were going to start and stop at the same time?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] I guess that helped everybody knowing that it just couldn’t keep going and going.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So at least they would know that you were going to start and stop at the same time?

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] I guess that helped everybody knowing that it just couldn’t keep going and going.

[User] Sure. Yes.

[Assistant] Did you find the press at that time informed before they were asking the questions because they had read your press kits? Did you find the materials that you had given them—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] I guess that helped everybody knowing that it just couldn’t keep going and going.

[User] Sure. Yes.

[Assistant] Did you find the press at that time informed before they were asking the questions because they had read your press kits? Did you find the materials that you had given them—

[User] I found that varied a great deal among whoever the member of the press was. Some were very bright and some were not so bright.

[Assistant] I can imagine. When you got ready to do the commentary, did you have to do a great deal of studying on your own before that time?