[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] maternal death

[Assistant] aha what do you think would be causing such?

[User] late reporting

[Assistant] by the staff?

[User] late reporting by the patient

[Assistant] oh...by the patient themselves


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] late reporting by the patient

[Assistant] oh...by the patient themselves

[User] the patient reporting late

[Assistant] ok

[User] or lack of what to use

[Assistant] in the hospital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] the patient reporting late

[Assistant] ok

[User] or lack of what to use

[Assistant] in the hospital?

[User] in the hospital

[Assistant] ok. So, it’s sometimes the hospitals...


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] death of that mother. So that would have been a preventable death but because such a cadre that was supposed to manage that mother is not there, then the mother may die

[Assistant] ok

[User] because the mother wanted blood and there was no blood, the mother will die, we even had issues where we would lose children because there was no oxygen, but iam happy the hospital has now installed the oxygen plant with in the institution, but we had lost so many in the facility because there was no oxygen

[Assistant] that’s sad

[User] yes... and yet those could have been preventable death

[Assistant] do you think we have patients dying in the community without presenting to the hospital


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] yes... and yet those could have been preventable death

[Assistant] do you think we have patients dying in the community without presenting to the hospital

[User] yes

[Assistant] why?

[User] accessibility

[Assistant] to the hospital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
to the hospital, you cannot access the hospital easily, by the way there is no...sometimes in 1998, 1999, 2000 and so on, there used to be, there used to be a radio call that were planted on the ambulances and the health institutions and they would coordinate say we have a serious patient, we have a very severely sick person we are bringing into the facility please prepare, by the time these people were reaching, the hospital you would find the hospital set or there was communication from the villages they were calling them what? I have forgotten, there were people in the villages that would hurry the patient to the health facility or call the facility and the facility would pick the patient from the village to the health facility and if they were unable to manage, then they would coordinate with the referral center and rush the patient, but those things disappeared again. So, the linkage the coordination between the village, the smaller health facilities and referral centers is lost again

is lost

[Assistant] ok

[User] so accessibility of services is not easy

[Assistant] ok

[User] and then the bureaucracy, you must first do this, first do this

[Assistant] like you must have a referral letter before coming here


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] go to the male ward, and then the man will be taken to medicine ward, he has intestinal obstruction, taken first to maternity, maternity would refer to medicine, medicine would say this is not our patient, maybe the person would even sleep there then the following day he is taken to his ward. Surgery

[Assistant] surgery

[User] and you think by the time they are taking him to surgery he is yet a human being?

[Assistant] no

[User] the whole gut is not there, so I’m happy that we now have casualty where everyone is would first be taken there and assessed, resuscitated then eventually forwarded to the rightful places

[Assistant] ok so, in your opinion, what are the 2 most important things ministry of health should do to improve outcomes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] meaning that even if we are saying now, we have enough staffing for lira regional referral hospital that is not the required staffing to provide services to the population, the increased population

[Assistant] true

[User] so, there must be something done to relate the population and then the required health professionals, like if this is the population of lango sub region, about how many health workers , about how many cadres of these health workers do we need to take care of this population, there should be something done related to that, but not looking at structures of the facility per se otherwise we shall still have the shortages of staff we are talking about the burn out of the few staff within the facility because of the exploding numbers of patients and even the drugs, coz the drugs coz the drugs also they also look at the structures, if one day, people estimate the number of people who get services from the private facilities then join in the health facilities, in the government facilities, maybe take a half of those going to the health facilities, then we shall have more people seeking care from well-trained motivated health workers rather than moving here and there to delay care then eventually when they have failed from the other side, they would have done many things one, they will have taken away the resources, say the resources those people have two, the will have delayed care, then finally they are referred to the health facility when they are dying so they will have lost everything, see that?

[Assistant] yeah

[User] or another thing, if RHD management that we have in the facility could also organize trainings for some of those people in the private facilities as well, so that we don’t delay them, they do something for the patients, since others prefer going to them. It would be so good

[Assistant] ok. Anything else?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] apart from thanking you?

[Assistant] laughs

[User] and your patience?

[Assistant] ok

[User] I have loved your patience, thank you for checking on me

[Assistant] and thank you very much also for accepting to be a part of this


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] and your patience?

[Assistant] ok

[User] I have loved your patience, thank you for checking on me

[Assistant] and thank you very much also for accepting to be a part of this

[User] you are welcome

[Assistant] sparing for your time


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yep. Great.

[Assistant] And will not name your employer in the interview. I will pseudonymize you if you want, etc., etc.. OK. So first question, what was your job in January of 2020?

[User] Physician. Scientist.

[Assistant] Yeah? Where?

[User] Can I say the university? The [organization]

[Assistant] New York City?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Physician. Scientist.

[Assistant] Yeah? Where?

[User] Can I say the university? The [organization]

[Assistant] New York City?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So when did you first hear about the novel virus?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Can I say the university? The [organization]

[Assistant] New York City?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So when did you first hear about the novel virus?

[User] I heard about it in January 2020 while traveling in the Far East.

[Assistant] And how did you hear about it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So when did you first hear about the novel virus?

[User] I heard about it in January 2020 while traveling in the Far East.

[Assistant] And how did you hear about it?

[User] I heard about it through the news, and it was during the Chinese New Year. There's lots of travelers wearing masks And that was the first time that I realized that there was something going on. And the hotels began to check your temperature.

[Assistant] So what were your first thoughts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I heard about it in January 2020 while traveling in the Far East.

[Assistant] And how did you hear about it?

[User] I heard about it through the news, and it was during the Chinese New Year. There's lots of travelers wearing masks And that was the first time that I realized that there was something going on. And the hotels began to check your temperature.

[Assistant] So what were your first thoughts?

[User] My first thoughts… My first thought was that I was not at all concerned, that I viewed it as a flu. And I thought that the people who were wearing masks were just being excessively anxious. So I definitely underplayed the the the crisis, the the looming crisis, the very beginning.

[Assistant] Do you remember, why did you think that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I heard about it through the news, and it was during the Chinese New Year. There's lots of travelers wearing masks And that was the first time that I realized that there was something going on. And the hotels began to check your temperature.

[Assistant] So what were your first thoughts?

[User] My first thoughts… My first thought was that I was not at all concerned, that I viewed it as a flu. And I thought that the people who were wearing masks were just being excessively anxious. So I definitely underplayed the the the crisis, the the looming crisis, the very beginning.

[Assistant] Do you remember, why did you think that?

[User] Well, I’ve seen as a doctor, seeing lots of epidemics and pandemics? And I just felt that it was in that same category. No, I mean, I just felt that would be a seasonal flu, uh, a flu. And being around lots of infectious diseases, as a doctor, I tend to be a little bit more cavalier about about that than the general population. And I lived through the HIV crisis, and that was quite bad. And so I'm used to being around infectious diseases. So I kind of had this this this, you know, this attitude of I'm watching the infections, but I can't get it because I’m a doctor.

[Assistant] OK. Did you discuss the virus at this time with anybody?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, I’ve seen as a doctor, seeing lots of epidemics and pandemics? And I just felt that it was in that same category. No, I mean, I just felt that would be a seasonal flu, uh, a flu. And being around lots of infectious diseases, as a doctor, I tend to be a little bit more cavalier about about that than the general population. And I lived through the HIV crisis, and that was quite bad. And so I'm used to being around infectious diseases. So I kind of had this this this, you know, this attitude of I'm watching the infections, but I can't get it because I’m a doctor.

[Assistant] OK. Did you discuss the virus at this time with anybody?

[User] Well, I was traveling with my family and that we discussed the virus for sure.

[Assistant] Any coworkers?

[User] Not that… no.

[Assistant] So the first wave of COVID hit New York around mid-March.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, I was traveling with my family and that we discussed the virus for sure.

[Assistant] Any coworkers?

[User] Not that… no.

[Assistant] So the first wave of COVID hit New York around mid-March.

[User] Mm hmm.

[Assistant] Did your perception of COVID change before then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It changed drastically, in March.

[Assistant] In March?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How so?

[User] Well, I got it. I got infected and my wife got infected. And we got infected on March the eighth at a birthday party. And we were in a dining room for a party with 21 to 22 people. And of that 21 or 22, almost everybody had been traveling around the world. And seven people got infected at that party, and one person died. And that person was an older person that he gave it to his wife, and she died. And the person that I think transmitted it to me and my wife got very, very, very, very sick. So that's when it really hit home that this is something quite serious.

[Assistant] By the time… But when you went to that party, did you still think it was not serious?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How so?

[User] Well, I got it. I got infected and my wife got infected. And we got infected on March the eighth at a birthday party. And we were in a dining room for a party with 21 to 22 people. And of that 21 or 22, almost everybody had been traveling around the world. And seven people got infected at that party, and one person died. And that person was an older person that he gave it to his wife, and she died. And the person that I think transmitted it to me and my wife got very, very, very, very sick. So that's when it really hit home that this is something quite serious.

[Assistant] By the time… But when you went to that party, did you still think it was not serious?

[User] Well, I went to the party It was definitely an issue because two days before that was my birthday party, of my father who turned 99. And we met we met as a family at his nursing home at his assisted living facility. And it was definitely an issue, a concern that maybe we shouldn't be doing this. But the nursing home facility allowed it and we were probably the last get together for family at that place for the remaining- for two more years, probably. It was the very last get together for families where families were allowed to meet. So I was definitely concerned at that time that this is a mistake, that we should not be doing this. But it wasn't enough of a concern. In retrospect, we would have definitely opted out. But at the time, it was still… it was a concern, but not an emergency. Not the emergency that it became OK.

[Assistant] So can you describe how you were feeling around this time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, I got it. I got infected and my wife got infected. And we got infected on March the eighth at a birthday party. And we were in a dining room for a party with 21 to 22 people. And of that 21 or 22, almost everybody had been traveling around the world. And seven people got infected at that party, and one person died. And that person was an older person that he gave it to his wife, and she died. And the person that I think transmitted it to me and my wife got very, very, very, very sick. So that's when it really hit home that this is something quite serious.

[Assistant] By the time… But when you went to that party, did you still think it was not serious?

[User] Well, I went to the party It was definitely an issue because two days before that was my birthday party, of my father who turned 99. And we met we met as a family at his nursing home at his assisted living facility. And it was definitely an issue, a concern that maybe we shouldn't be doing this. But the nursing home facility allowed it and we were probably the last get together for family at that place for the remaining- for two more years, probably. It was the very last get together for families where families were allowed to meet. So I was definitely concerned at that time that this is a mistake, that we should not be doing this. But it wasn't enough of a concern. In retrospect, we would have definitely opted out. But at the time, it was still… it was a concern, but not an emergency. Not the emergency that it became OK.

[Assistant] So can you describe how you were feeling around this time?

[User] I mean, as with with respect to the pandemic or with respect to how I feel about getting sick?

[Assistant] With respect to the pandemic. But before you got sick.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, I went to the party It was definitely an issue because two days before that was my birthday party, of my father who turned 99. And we met we met as a family at his nursing home at his assisted living facility. And it was definitely an issue, a concern that maybe we shouldn't be doing this. But the nursing home facility allowed it and we were probably the last get together for family at that place for the remaining- for two more years, probably. It was the very last get together for families where families were allowed to meet. So I was definitely concerned at that time that this is a mistake, that we should not be doing this. But it wasn't enough of a concern. In retrospect, we would have definitely opted out. But at the time, it was still… it was a concern, but not an emergency. Not the emergency that it became OK.

[Assistant] So can you describe how you were feeling around this time?

[User] I mean, as with with respect to the pandemic or with respect to how I feel about getting sick?

[Assistant] With respect to the pandemic. But before you got sick.

[User] OK, so it was starting to emerge that this is much more serious than we thought And I was concerned. It was now going beyond typical seasonal flu. That was in early March. The mortality rate was starting to climb and it was not typical of of influenza. So my my antenna were raised, let's put it that way.

[Assistant] So what did your what did your hospital or your university do to prepare for the impending crisis?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I mean, as with with respect to the pandemic or with respect to how I feel about getting sick?

[Assistant] With respect to the pandemic. But before you got sick.

[User] OK, so it was starting to emerge that this is much more serious than we thought And I was concerned. It was now going beyond typical seasonal flu. That was in early March. The mortality rate was starting to climb and it was not typical of of influenza. So my my antenna were raised, let's put it that way.

[Assistant] So what did your what did your hospital or your university do to prepare for the impending crisis?

[User] The preparation was poor. Very, very poor, in fact. But it was not unique. I mean, it was that the whole medical system was unprepared because at the time it was a great fear that that masks and PPE would be in short, supply for medical personnel. At that time, it was really aware, people were aware that doctors and nurses and other health professionals needed to be protected against the virus. It was known that it was transmitted by air. And because there's a shortage, it was hard to get… It was hard for regular people to get to get masks. And when I finally got started, I was unable to get a covid test. So even at this major medical center, we could not get tested for this virus.

[Assistant] OK, so you said the preparation was poor, but is there anything… what else is there, aside from the lack of PPE?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] OK, so it was starting to emerge that this is much more serious than we thought And I was concerned. It was now going beyond typical seasonal flu. That was in early March. The mortality rate was starting to climb and it was not typical of of influenza. So my my antenna were raised, let's put it that way.

[Assistant] So what did your what did your hospital or your university do to prepare for the impending crisis?

[User] The preparation was poor. Very, very poor, in fact. But it was not unique. I mean, it was that the whole medical system was unprepared because at the time it was a great fear that that masks and PPE would be in short, supply for medical personnel. At that time, it was really aware, people were aware that doctors and nurses and other health professionals needed to be protected against the virus. It was known that it was transmitted by air. And because there's a shortage, it was hard to get… It was hard for regular people to get to get masks. And when I finally got started, I was unable to get a covid test. So even at this major medical center, we could not get tested for this virus.

[Assistant] OK, so you said the preparation was poor, but is there anything… what else is there, aside from the lack of PPE?

[User] I wouldn't I think that the country wasn’t ready. If the country was ready then there would have been a ready supply of PPE for the hospitals and mass general population. And that would have been, you know, good preparation. We didn't have that. As the pandemic emerged then, you know, there were more masks being manufactured and things like that. But at the time, everybody was caught very short on these supplies. And that's why the message from the CDC was so, well, was incorrect, was also necessary because people were afraid that the CDC, that PPE would run out So the preparation was that there was a nationwide lack of preparedness as opposed to the medical field not being prepared.

[Assistant] Right, but you're saying this is something that arrived in March, correct?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The preparation was poor. Very, very poor, in fact. But it was not unique. I mean, it was that the whole medical system was unprepared because at the time it was a great fear that that masks and PPE would be in short, supply for medical personnel. At that time, it was really aware, people were aware that doctors and nurses and other health professionals needed to be protected against the virus. It was known that it was transmitted by air. And because there's a shortage, it was hard to get… It was hard for regular people to get to get masks. And when I finally got started, I was unable to get a covid test. So even at this major medical center, we could not get tested for this virus.

[Assistant] OK, so you said the preparation was poor, but is there anything… what else is there, aside from the lack of PPE?

[User] I wouldn't I think that the country wasn’t ready. If the country was ready then there would have been a ready supply of PPE for the hospitals and mass general population. And that would have been, you know, good preparation. We didn't have that. As the pandemic emerged then, you know, there were more masks being manufactured and things like that. But at the time, everybody was caught very short on these supplies. And that's why the message from the CDC was so, well, was incorrect, was also necessary because people were afraid that the CDC, that PPE would run out So the preparation was that there was a nationwide lack of preparedness as opposed to the medical field not being prepared.

[Assistant] Right, but you're saying this is something that arrived in March, correct?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So the first cases were in January.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] So the first cases were in January.

[User] That's right. Yeah, that's right. But when you see a couple of cases you don't get, it doesn't raise your consciousness, doesn’t raise your antenna. You don't see that it's anything serious until it starts to explode. And it exploded quite quickly. But in February, the concern was there, but it was still not… people did not anticipate that a million Americans were die. It was people just didn't view it that way. So people were concerned, but not as much as… in hindsight it's very easy to look back and say this should have been done. But while it was happening? People were just not … it didn't reach the level of fear, like the AIDS crisis, when AIDS exploded, it really exploded. And but at that time, it exploded only in certain communities. And you didn't have this fear that it would go to you because of the ways that it was transmitted. As a doctor, we were very, very concerned that it might be more transmissible than it is. And people were concerned about examining patients with HIV, people were concerned about doing surgery. That was a very legitimate concern. People in the medical community were very, very fearful when… we were very afraid when AIDS came out. And it exploded this did also. But people didn't make the same kind of connection because, you know, people were more vulnerable with COVID than with HIV. But the feeling was a similar feeling. There's still you know, there's a level of anxiety with HIV that I had then that I didn't have with COVID until it exploded.

[Assistant] So at the hospital or in these medical settings, were there any meetings or group discussions about the response?

[User] Well, no. So there were meetings by the dean designated a few officials, medical deans and doctors and researchers to come up with a COVID plan. And then when the COVID plan was was made, it was transmitted to all of us by email blast. So we were not part of the discussion; a committee came up with the protocol. And then we learned about it.

[Assistant] Do you remember when that was?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] That's right. Yeah, that's right. But when you see a couple of cases you don't get, it doesn't raise your consciousness, doesn’t raise your antenna. You don't see that it's anything serious until it starts to explode. And it exploded quite quickly. But in February, the concern was there, but it was still not… people did not anticipate that a million Americans were die. It was people just didn't view it that way. So people were concerned, but not as much as… in hindsight it's very easy to look back and say this should have been done. But while it was happening? People were just not … it didn't reach the level of fear, like the AIDS crisis, when AIDS exploded, it really exploded. And but at that time, it exploded only in certain communities. And you didn't have this fear that it would go to you because of the ways that it was transmitted. As a doctor, we were very, very concerned that it might be more transmissible than it is. And people were concerned about examining patients with HIV, people were concerned about doing surgery. That was a very legitimate concern. People in the medical community were very, very fearful when… we were very afraid when AIDS came out. And it exploded this did also. But people didn't make the same kind of connection because, you know, people were more vulnerable with COVID than with HIV. But the feeling was a similar feeling. There's still you know, there's a level of anxiety with HIV that I had then that I didn't have with COVID until it exploded.

[Assistant] So at the hospital or in these medical settings, were there any meetings or group discussions about the response?

[User] Well, no. So there were meetings by the dean designated a few officials, medical deans and doctors and researchers to come up with a COVID plan. And then when the COVID plan was was made, it was transmitted to all of us by email blast. So we were not part of the discussion; a committee came up with the protocol. And then we learned about it.

[Assistant] Do you remember when that was?

[User] That was probably in late March. Early April.

[Assistant] Late March. Early April.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, no. So there were meetings by the dean designated a few officials, medical deans and doctors and researchers to come up with a COVID plan. And then when the COVID plan was was made, it was transmitted to all of us by email blast. So we were not part of the discussion; a committee came up with the protocol. And then we learned about it.

[Assistant] Do you remember when that was?

[User] That was probably in late March. Early April.

[Assistant] Late March. Early April.

[User] Right. When the lockdown when the lockdown occurred was when we we we you know, the schools was basically locked down. And we got the emails about what should be done, what what would happen if you got infected, that sort of thing.

[Assistant] So were there any but were there any meetings or discussions in February? before things really started exploding?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] That was probably in late March. Early April.

[Assistant] Late March. Early April.

[User] Right. When the lockdown when the lockdown occurred was when we we we you know, the schools was basically locked down. And we got the emails about what should be done, what what would happen if you got infected, that sort of thing.

[Assistant] So were there any but were there any meetings or discussions in February? before things really started exploding?

[User] Exploded? No, no. The meetings occurred, the plan of attack occurred after mid-March, when the when the lockdown happened.

[Assistant] Do you remember if anyone was trying to push for action early?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Right. When the lockdown when the lockdown occurred was when we we we you know, the schools was basically locked down. And we got the emails about what should be done, what what would happen if you got infected, that sort of thing.

[Assistant] So were there any but were there any meetings or discussions in February? before things really started exploding?

[User] Exploded? No, no. The meetings occurred, the plan of attack occurred after mid-March, when the when the lockdown happened.

[Assistant] Do you remember if anyone was trying to push for action early?

[User] No, I was not aware of anybody doing that. Maybe there were individuals doing that. But I was totally unaware that that was happening behind the scenes.

[Assistant] Are you saying maybe there were individuals doing that? Or you don't know?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Exploded? No, no. The meetings occurred, the plan of attack occurred after mid-March, when the when the lockdown happened.

[Assistant] Do you remember if anyone was trying to push for action early?

[User] No, I was not aware of anybody doing that. Maybe there were individuals doing that. But I was totally unaware that that was happening behind the scenes.

[Assistant] Are you saying maybe there were individuals doing that? Or you don't know?

[User] I don't know. OK. I wasn't I wasn't calling my colleagues and saying, what should we do? So in my circle, my circle was was more research and clinicians. So so to give you a sense, I work at a clinic and there was no discussion among clinic doctors and the clinic administrators about any kind of protocol. Only after [organizations] created the protocol and after mid-March, when the lockdown occurred, then we had these discussions. But before that, there was no individuals saying we should act now, and make a complete plan before the administration tells us what to do.

[Assistant] Do you think that the hierarchy has something to do with that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, I was not aware of anybody doing that. Maybe there were individuals doing that. But I was totally unaware that that was happening behind the scenes.

[Assistant] Are you saying maybe there were individuals doing that? Or you don't know?

[User] I don't know. OK. I wasn't I wasn't calling my colleagues and saying, what should we do? So in my circle, my circle was was more research and clinicians. So so to give you a sense, I work at a clinic and there was no discussion among clinic doctors and the clinic administrators about any kind of protocol. Only after [organizations] created the protocol and after mid-March, when the lockdown occurred, then we had these discussions. But before that, there was no individuals saying we should act now, and make a complete plan before the administration tells us what to do.

[Assistant] Do you think that the hierarchy has something to do with that?

[User] No, I don't think so. I think that it just that was a very complicated issue, and I think people will, people were waiting for the committee; people on the committee were able to devote their time to trying to figure out what to do. Those of us who were not on the committee doing that didn't have the time to look at the CDC data and go through the CDC recommendations. So we were all kind of waiting for guidance because that's what happens. It's hard to make your own decisions because you don't have as much information as the committee does. So we were- I think I mean, that was for me, me and the few doctors that did contact my clinic, we were waiting for some kind of an executive decision.

[Assistant] So you did contact some of your colleagues.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, I don't think so. I think that it just that was a very complicated issue, and I think people will, people were waiting for the committee; people on the committee were able to devote their time to trying to figure out what to do. Those of us who were not on the committee doing that didn't have the time to look at the CDC data and go through the CDC recommendations. So we were all kind of waiting for guidance because that's what happens. It's hard to make your own decisions because you don't have as much information as the committee does. So we were- I think I mean, that was for me, me and the few doctors that did contact my clinic, we were waiting for some kind of an executive decision.

[Assistant] So you did contact some of your colleagues.

[User] Colleagues by email contact? I contacted contacted a couple of people in the program basically to find out what the plan was. needed. So we were thinking about what should we do? And we were waiting for the executive branch of the medical center to come up with a plan. Now, if that happened now, if we saw something similar to what was happening then, I think people might act earlier. But at the time, it was y’know standard protocol to sort of wait and see what the people who were in charge said to do. They they're the ones who had all the data and the time to think about a plan.

[Assistant] So when you were talking with the other clinicians, this would have been this would have been February because you got COVID in March.

[User] No, we had no discussions in February. There was a window after we got after I got infected in March. And when… Well, there was a small window before we got the word from [medical school and hospital] about what the plan should be.

[Assistant] But this window was during the first wave, correct?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Colleagues by email contact? I contacted contacted a couple of people in the program basically to find out what the plan was. needed. So we were thinking about what should we do? And we were waiting for the executive branch of the medical center to come up with a plan. Now, if that happened now, if we saw something similar to what was happening then, I think people might act earlier. But at the time, it was y’know standard protocol to sort of wait and see what the people who were in charge said to do. They they're the ones who had all the data and the time to think about a plan.

[Assistant] So when you were talking with the other clinicians, this would have been this would have been February because you got COVID in March.

[User] No, we had no discussions in February. There was a window after we got after I got infected in March. And when… Well, there was a small window before we got the word from [medical school and hospital] about what the plan should be.

[Assistant] But this window was during the first wave, correct?

[User] It was really a very narrow window because once there was a nationwide lockdown, then you know, it came pretty quickly. The higher ups came up with a plan quite quickly. I don’t remember the exact time because it was really was within days.

[Assistant] So one more question about the hospital. Then it's a few more psychological questions. So what do you wish, if anything, that they would have done differently?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, we had no discussions in February. There was a window after we got after I got infected in March. And when… Well, there was a small window before we got the word from [medical school and hospital] about what the plan should be.

[Assistant] But this window was during the first wave, correct?

[User] It was really a very narrow window because once there was a nationwide lockdown, then you know, it came pretty quickly. The higher ups came up with a plan quite quickly. I don’t remember the exact time because it was really was within days.

[Assistant] So one more question about the hospital. Then it's a few more psychological questions. So what do you wish, if anything, that they would have done differently?

[User] Well, OK. I’ll be honest with you, I think that it was handled pretty well. I think that given the the the speed with which everything took off and the lack of knowledge about the infections and all that, I think that that on the on the hospital level, they were, you know, more or less appropriate. I mean, it would’ve been nice to be able to get tested at that time. But very few people were, there were no tests available. So I think that the major thing is that this was a nationwide problem, that it really impared the response. Because the government can order, can make things on a deficit. The hospitals can't just order masks and PPE without having a major economic compromise. The government can do that. They can go into debt and pay for it. So really in my view, it was a nationwide lapse as opposed to a health care system lapse.

[Assistant] So is there anything you would have done differently as an individual?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I really felt that they were being you know, too cautious. And in New York City, in Chinatown, people wear masks quite a bit. And I always thought that was a little bit odd. And kind of I felt the way I think Republicans feel about masks now. You know, ‘Why are you doing that, you’re being excessively cautious, it’s not cool’ and that kind of thing. And I view that the same way the way the way Republicans view mask wearing during the Covid crisis, [that] is the way I view seeing these Chinese tourists wear masks, they were being excessively cautious and it was not necessary, and again, it can only affect you and not be that's the big lesson.

[Assistant] That's your that's the top line argument? You saw these things, but you felt that it wasn’t….

[User] I felt, I felt immune. I felt immune. And also, I didn't feel vulnerable at all. Because my age, because I'm healthy. And also the 1918 pandemic affected, it was the exact reversible state was in college in 1980 in the worst cases and the highest locality was among the young and here it's it's worse in people who are older so… I don't I don't I don't feel my age […] I didn't feel vulnerable.

[Assistant] So it seems like you weren't ever anxious at all or scared?

[User] No no.

[Assistant] And how did you treat the uncertainty about the new virus?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No no.

[Assistant] And how did you treat the uncertainty about the new virus?

[User] Well, I basically followed the advice I locked down with everybody else. I followed the advice of the CDC and worked remotely. And the only thing we did that I did that was different, and again, this was a clinic wide policy, we only saw patients remotely. Patients came in for the treatment and they weren't being seen one on one the way we ordinarily do. So a lot of precautions were taken, but even I just never felt… I never felt vulnerable. I don't know what it is. I saw patients who eventually who had COVID infections coughing. I mean, I just took precautions. And, you know, doctors take risks when it comes to infections. And it's part of the it's part of the mentality. And I think that that was definitely my mentality, too, that it's, you know, we were brave soldiers exposing ourselves to the front line, attacked. There is that mentality in medicine for sure. Ebola would’ve scared me.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] Well, the mortality is very high. Yeah that’s the other thing. I think that the mortality of COVID was the same ballpark as smallpox and bubonic plague and Ebola, I think that I would have been much much more frightened being around people, much more. But because the mortality was 1% or less, I just didn't feel as… that nervous. I wasn’t nervous that I was gonna die. But if I had Ebola, if I was an Ebola endemic the setting of this had the mortality of smallpox, I would have had a very, very different lens. But [the mortality rate] 1%. You always say it's the other person who's going to get sick.

[Assistant] This 1% was known pretty early yeah?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I had a ton of needle sticks. And yeah, because we were sloppy. And two people in my year as an intern got Hep C, and we had a couple of people who had exposure to TB and the skin test turned positive they had to be treated. And I was I was exposed to quite a bit of TB in the late 1970s and that was much more and even then, even when I was treating, I was treating a patient who, who bled out from tuberculosis. She exsanguinated in front of me from a hemorrhage, hemorrhage in her lung, and she was spitting out God knows how many tuberculosis bacilli. And even then I didn't feel at all nervous. So that's just being cocky and young.

[Assistant] Well in this case… in this case, is it cockiness, or is it… obviously you work more than a full time job, so is this cockiness, or is this not doing the calculations?

[User] No I think… well, I think that I was being cocky is naturally part of who you are as a health care professional. And the numbers were not that bad, but I have to tell you something. If I was working in the hospital the way my colleagues were, I think I would’ve been much more nervous.

[Assistant] Really?

[User] Oh, yeah. I would have gone in if I was called. I mean, I would’ve gone in and done the PPE and all that stuff. But the seeing and hearing about nurses and doctors getting sick and dying, I definitely would have been much more cautious. So part of it is being cocky, but part of it is also the fact that I was not exposed in the way that my colleagues were exposed to it. I was not- I was working in a clinic and not in the hospital, and I think that working in the hospital would’ve changed would’ve taken away some of this cocky attitude.

[Assistant] OK, OK, we're getting up there in time. So I think we should I think we can end this interview pretty soon. Unless there is anything else to like to say?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Because I know the history of the village since it started up to date, and also I am the leader of ten houses in the village.

[Assistant] As you have said, you have been a leader of ten houses in the villages, for how long have you been in that position?

[User] From 2015, because since the villages were distributed, it was only one ward as Mela, and before then it used to be called Mlandizi, and other pastoralist shifted to Mela. Mela was part of Melela, and later on it was divided, that is when Mela acquired a status of a village.

[Assistant] We came here in February, comparing February up to October (2017) are there any changes that you haven observed in your village?

[User] A lot of changes have occurred Education on how to reduce the number of cattle, myself was a member in different meetings even to meet with top leaders. We were resistant at first; but later on we came to realise that the government had no bad intentions; it is when last month we came to agree and accept the idea that our cattle should be stamped for identification, and to reduce the herd size as well.

[Assistant] About the education that you were given, who was the provider?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] From 2015, because since the villages were distributed, it was only one ward as Mela, and before then it used to be called Mlandizi, and other pastoralist shifted to Mela. Mela was part of Melela, and later on it was divided, that is when Mela acquired a status of a village.

[Assistant] We came here in February, comparing February up to October (2017) are there any changes that you haven observed in your village?

[User] A lot of changes have occurred Education on how to reduce the number of cattle, myself was a member in different meetings even to meet with top leaders. We were resistant at first; but later on we came to realise that the government had no bad intentions; it is when last month we came to agree and accept the idea that our cattle should be stamped for identification, and to reduce the herd size as well.

[Assistant] About the education that you were given, who was the provider?

[User] The government

[Assistant] What did they emphasise on, how many cattle is a person supposed to own?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] A lot of changes have occurred Education on how to reduce the number of cattle, myself was a member in different meetings even to meet with top leaders. We were resistant at first; but later on we came to realise that the government had no bad intentions; it is when last month we came to agree and accept the idea that our cattle should be stamped for identification, and to reduce the herd size as well.

[Assistant] About the education that you were given, who was the provider?

[User] The government

[Assistant] What did they emphasise on, how many cattle is a person supposed to own?

[User] They emphasised mostly on having enough cattle that will bring development to the family or even the village.

[Assistant] What was the response of the villagers?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The government

[Assistant] What did they emphasise on, how many cattle is a person supposed to own?

[User] They emphasised mostly on having enough cattle that will bring development to the family or even the village.

[Assistant] What was the response of the villagers?

[User] At first we didn’t want to hear and accept about it, because we didn’t know any other activity or livelihood apart from keeping livestock. Our children are in schools because we sell livestock to get fees and school requirements. Also a person eats depending on livestock, but after the government gave us education about it, it is when we came to realise the importance of it. Even when MR. president said about “TANZANIA YA VIWANDA” “INDUSTRIALISED TANZANIA”, as we should depend on our own e.g. Meat, milk etc. so we came to the agreement about cattle/livestock herd reduction in order to reduce conflicts between farmers and pastoralists.

[Assistant] How having a lot of cattle’s/livestock lead to conflict?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They emphasised mostly on having enough cattle that will bring development to the family or even the village.

[Assistant] What was the response of the villagers?

[User] At first we didn’t want to hear and accept about it, because we didn’t know any other activity or livelihood apart from keeping livestock. Our children are in schools because we sell livestock to get fees and school requirements. Also a person eats depending on livestock, but after the government gave us education about it, it is when we came to realise the importance of it. Even when MR. president said about “TANZANIA YA VIWANDA” “INDUSTRIALISED TANZANIA”, as we should depend on our own e.g. Meat, milk etc. so we came to the agreement about cattle/livestock herd reduction in order to reduce conflicts between farmers and pastoralists.

[Assistant] How having a lot of cattle’s/livestock lead to conflict?

[User] Some pastoralists are having a lot of cattle like 1000 of them and during the dry season when there is no enough pasture, so it’s either to buy pasture from one another or move to look for pasture and water, so due to that is when they tend to land on someone’s farm where animals then feed on crops and this how conflicts occur.

[Assistant] Thank you, you said earlier on that you were born here; comparing 15 years back, are the rich/poor households increasing or decreasing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] At first we didn’t want to hear and accept about it, because we didn’t know any other activity or livelihood apart from keeping livestock. Our children are in schools because we sell livestock to get fees and school requirements. Also a person eats depending on livestock, but after the government gave us education about it, it is when we came to realise the importance of it. Even when MR. president said about “TANZANIA YA VIWANDA” “INDUSTRIALISED TANZANIA”, as we should depend on our own e.g. Meat, milk etc. so we came to the agreement about cattle/livestock herd reduction in order to reduce conflicts between farmers and pastoralists.

[Assistant] How having a lot of cattle’s/livestock lead to conflict?

[User] Some pastoralists are having a lot of cattle like 1000 of them and during the dry season when there is no enough pasture, so it’s either to buy pasture from one another or move to look for pasture and water, so due to that is when they tend to land on someone’s farm where animals then feed on crops and this how conflicts occur.

[Assistant] Thank you, you said earlier on that you were born here; comparing 15 years back, are the rich/poor households increasing or decreasing?

[User] It is hard to say but I will try, because Maasai always stay as a family, you may find there are 2000 cattle in one place but only 50 people live in that compound, eat and do everything together. But for now things have changed, poor households are recognised as they depend on themselves or even when they ask for help no one offer them support. It is because of the history as it is not common to help others. Therefore one cannot just help because he has seen that others are not helping one another who are in need. This situation has made children who are in need not to go to school due to lack of school fees and no members of community are willing to offer support.

[Assistant] Are poor household increasing or decreasing comparing to 10-15 years back?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Some pastoralists are having a lot of cattle like 1000 of them and during the dry season when there is no enough pasture, so it’s either to buy pasture from one another or move to look for pasture and water, so due to that is when they tend to land on someone’s farm where animals then feed on crops and this how conflicts occur.

[Assistant] Thank you, you said earlier on that you were born here; comparing 15 years back, are the rich/poor households increasing or decreasing?

[User] It is hard to say but I will try, because Maasai always stay as a family, you may find there are 2000 cattle in one place but only 50 people live in that compound, eat and do everything together. But for now things have changed, poor households are recognised as they depend on themselves or even when they ask for help no one offer them support. It is because of the history as it is not common to help others. Therefore one cannot just help because he has seen that others are not helping one another who are in need. This situation has made children who are in need not to go to school due to lack of school fees and no members of community are willing to offer support.

[Assistant] Are poor household increasing or decreasing comparing to 10-15 years back?

[User] they decreased at some point and increased also. But what I can say generally poor households have increased.

[Assistant] Are rich households increased or decreased?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It is hard to say but I will try, because Maasai always stay as a family, you may find there are 2000 cattle in one place but only 50 people live in that compound, eat and do everything together. But for now things have changed, poor households are recognised as they depend on themselves or even when they ask for help no one offer them support. It is because of the history as it is not common to help others. Therefore one cannot just help because he has seen that others are not helping one another who are in need. This situation has made children who are in need not to go to school due to lack of school fees and no members of community are willing to offer support.

[Assistant] Are poor household increasing or decreasing comparing to 10-15 years back?

[User] they decreased at some point and increased also. But what I can say generally poor households have increased.

[Assistant] Are rich households increased or decreased?

[User] They have increased.

[Assistant] What has led to this increase?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] they decreased at some point and increased also. But what I can say generally poor households have increased.

[Assistant] Are rich households increased or decreased?

[User] They have increased.

[Assistant] What has led to this increase?

[User] Due to business activities, sometimes when someone is so in-need they sell at least cattle in order to get the money.

[Assistant] When you talk about rich families/households, what exactly do you look at?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They have increased.

[Assistant] What has led to this increase?

[User] Due to business activities, sometimes when someone is so in-need they sell at least cattle in order to get the money.

[Assistant] When you talk about rich families/households, what exactly do you look at?

[User] In Mela, when you say someone is rich first has a lot of cattle and can be able to eat 3 meals per day.

[Assistant] When you talk about a lot of cows/cattle what exactly is the number do you mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Due to business activities, sometimes when someone is so in-need they sell at least cattle in order to get the money.

[Assistant] When you talk about rich families/households, what exactly do you look at?

[User] In Mela, when you say someone is rich first has a lot of cattle and can be able to eat 3 meals per day.

[Assistant] When you talk about a lot of cows/cattle what exactly is the number do you mean?

[User] From 200 cattle onwards.

[Assistant] We have seen rich households have increased so as poor households. Have you also seen any other changes concerning foods and lifestyles in general?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In Mela, when you say someone is rich first has a lot of cattle and can be able to eat 3 meals per day.

[Assistant] When you talk about a lot of cows/cattle what exactly is the number do you mean?

[User] From 200 cattle onwards.

[Assistant] We have seen rich households have increased so as poor households. Have you also seen any other changes concerning foods and lifestyles in general?

[User] Changes that we have seen is agriculture. Many people nowadays are into agriculture especially maize production because they cannot depend only on milk, because milk is just like water or sauce for Maasai.

[Assistant] What made you start eating other kinds of foods?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] From 200 cattle onwards.

[Assistant] We have seen rich households have increased so as poor households. Have you also seen any other changes concerning foods and lifestyles in general?

[User] Changes that we have seen is agriculture. Many people nowadays are into agriculture especially maize production because they cannot depend only on milk, because milk is just like water or sauce for Maasai.

[Assistant] What made you start eating other kinds of foods?

[User] Living together as we all know before the Maasai did not know any other activity apart from livestock keeping, but later they have learned about agriculture. This happened when they shifted to Sangasanga. In 1980 they shifted again to Mlandizi, that’s when the Maasai got themselves into agriculture with others. So the main reason is living together with other people in the community apart from living in isolation i.e. Maasai only.

[Assistant] So, you said that farmers made the Maasai society change. Is it you who shifted to their community or they shifted to your community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Changes that we have seen is agriculture. Many people nowadays are into agriculture especially maize production because they cannot depend only on milk, because milk is just like water or sauce for Maasai.

[Assistant] What made you start eating other kinds of foods?

[User] Living together as we all know before the Maasai did not know any other activity apart from livestock keeping, but later they have learned about agriculture. This happened when they shifted to Sangasanga. In 1980 they shifted again to Mlandizi, that’s when the Maasai got themselves into agriculture with others. So the main reason is living together with other people in the community apart from living in isolation i.e. Maasai only.

[Assistant] So, you said that farmers made the Maasai society change. Is it you who shifted to their community or they shifted to your community?

[User] we were partners before everyone shifted to their own place.

[Assistant] What tribe made you start ploughing or agriculture?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Living together as we all know before the Maasai did not know any other activity apart from livestock keeping, but later they have learned about agriculture. This happened when they shifted to Sangasanga. In 1980 they shifted again to Mlandizi, that’s when the Maasai got themselves into agriculture with others. So the main reason is living together with other people in the community apart from living in isolation i.e. Maasai only.

[Assistant] So, you said that farmers made the Maasai society change. Is it you who shifted to their community or they shifted to your community?

[User] we were partners before everyone shifted to their own place.

[Assistant] What tribe made you start ploughing or agriculture?

[User] Different tribes but for the case of our village the Gogos made us plough.

[Assistant] When did it start, that Maasai started to interact with other tribes and led to these changes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] we were partners before everyone shifted to their own place.

[Assistant] What tribe made you start ploughing or agriculture?

[User] Different tribes but for the case of our village the Gogos made us plough.

[Assistant] When did it start, that Maasai started to interact with other tribes and led to these changes?

[User] All the changes started in 2000. However there were others who left the village because they did not want to interact with others.

[Assistant] Where exactly did that other tribe come from?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Different tribes but for the case of our village the Gogos made us plough.

[Assistant] When did it start, that Maasai started to interact with other tribes and led to these changes?

[User] All the changes started in 2000. However there were others who left the village because they did not want to interact with others.

[Assistant] Where exactly did that other tribe come from?

[User] For example Gogos are from Dodoma

[Assistant] Thank you, now would like to know, the interaction with other tribes, what effect has it brought to the community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] All the changes started in 2000. However there were others who left the village because they did not want to interact with others.

[Assistant] Where exactly did that other tribe come from?

[User] For example Gogos are from Dodoma

[Assistant] Thank you, now would like to know, the interaction with other tribes, what effect has it brought to the community?

[User] When you plough you get benefit after selling the products or even use for home consumption.

[Assistant] Are there any effects that have occurred?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] For example Gogos are from Dodoma

[Assistant] Thank you, now would like to know, the interaction with other tribes, what effect has it brought to the community?

[User] When you plough you get benefit after selling the products or even use for home consumption.

[Assistant] Are there any effects that have occurred?

[User] In our community there is no any effect that has occurred, but we can talk about health, Maasai used to use those local medicines, but when we started to interact with others, they now changed and tend to use other medicines as well, also getting married to Swahili women which was not normal and due to that is when HIV was noticed in the village. I as a leader decided to start a small training to people in the community about AIDS which was called EAPS ( EDUCATION OF AIDS FOR PASTORALIST SOCIETY).

[Assistant] How are those changes affecting diet of children and women?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] When you plough you get benefit after selling the products or even use for home consumption.

[Assistant] Are there any effects that have occurred?

[User] In our community there is no any effect that has occurred, but we can talk about health, Maasai used to use those local medicines, but when we started to interact with others, they now changed and tend to use other medicines as well, also getting married to Swahili women which was not normal and due to that is when HIV was noticed in the village. I as a leader decided to start a small training to people in the community about AIDS which was called EAPS ( EDUCATION OF AIDS FOR PASTORALIST SOCIETY).

[Assistant] How are those changes affecting diet of children and women?

[User] No much because others still do not eat foods like fish, sardines, eggs, chicken, though there are some of them eat, even my wife do not know how to cook them.

[Assistant] So, where exactly do you get to eat that kind of food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In our community there is no any effect that has occurred, but we can talk about health, Maasai used to use those local medicines, but when we started to interact with others, they now changed and tend to use other medicines as well, also getting married to Swahili women which was not normal and due to that is when HIV was noticed in the village. I as a leader decided to start a small training to people in the community about AIDS which was called EAPS ( EDUCATION OF AIDS FOR PASTORALIST SOCIETY).

[Assistant] How are those changes affecting diet of children and women?

[User] No much because others still do not eat foods like fish, sardines, eggs, chicken, though there are some of them eat, even my wife do not know how to cook them.

[Assistant] So, where exactly do you get to eat that kind of food?

[User] At the hotels or restaurants

[Assistant] For all the changes in diet and doing business, do you see any benefit from it?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No much because others still do not eat foods like fish, sardines, eggs, chicken, though there are some of them eat, even my wife do not know how to cook them.

[Assistant] So, where exactly do you get to eat that kind of food?

[User] At the hotels or restaurants

[Assistant] For all the changes in diet and doing business, do you see any benefit from it?

[User] Yes, because in the past we didn’t know that we are lacking some of the nutrients from the foods that we were not consuming like cassava, fish, and chicken but now we plough cassava and eat other kinds of foods.

[Assistant] Thank you, apart from interaction with other tribes what else made you eat other kinds of foods?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] At the hotels or restaurants

[Assistant] For all the changes in diet and doing business, do you see any benefit from it?

[User] Yes, because in the past we didn’t know that we are lacking some of the nutrients from the foods that we were not consuming like cassava, fish, and chicken but now we plough cassava and eat other kinds of foods.

[Assistant] Thank you, apart from interaction with other tribes what else made you eat other kinds of foods?

[User] Education, as for me I took my ordinary level studies at Kigurunyembe Secondary School, it’s when I started eating all kinds of food, which also I learned how to prepare them Also the education we get from different NGOs that tend to visit us most of the time.

[Assistant] With the education you get, how does it help the household?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, because in the past we didn’t know that we are lacking some of the nutrients from the foods that we were not consuming like cassava, fish, and chicken but now we plough cassava and eat other kinds of foods.

[Assistant] Thank you, apart from interaction with other tribes what else made you eat other kinds of foods?

[User] Education, as for me I took my ordinary level studies at Kigurunyembe Secondary School, it’s when I started eating all kinds of food, which also I learned how to prepare them Also the education we get from different NGOs that tend to visit us most of the time.

[Assistant] With the education you get, how does it help the household?

[User] NGO’S from SUA taught us on importance and groups of foods, and how to prepare them at households.

[Assistant] Are there any challenges in the society/village that lead to shortage of food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Education, as for me I took my ordinary level studies at Kigurunyembe Secondary School, it’s when I started eating all kinds of food, which also I learned how to prepare them Also the education we get from different NGOs that tend to visit us most of the time.

[Assistant] With the education you get, how does it help the household?

[User] NGO’S from SUA taught us on importance and groups of foods, and how to prepare them at households.

[Assistant] Are there any challenges in the society/village that lead to shortage of food?

[User] Shortage of food, Yes, especially for poor households that depend on agriculture, but not for rich households that do not depend on agriculture. We have fertile soil and land but lack of education on how to cultivate other staples is causing food shortage.

[Assistant] What makes the families lack food for a long period of time, like for a year?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] NGO’S from SUA taught us on importance and groups of foods, and how to prepare them at households.

[Assistant] Are there any challenges in the society/village that lead to shortage of food?

[User] Shortage of food, Yes, especially for poor households that depend on agriculture, but not for rich households that do not depend on agriculture. We have fertile soil and land but lack of education on how to cultivate other staples is causing food shortage.

[Assistant] What makes the families lack food for a long period of time, like for a year?

[Assistant] Is there any specific place where everyone takes their staple and non-staples for sell?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Shortage of food, Yes, especially for poor households that depend on agriculture, but not for rich households that do not depend on agriculture. We have fertile soil and land but lack of education on how to cultivate other staples is causing food shortage.

[Assistant] What makes the families lack food for a long period of time, like for a year?

[Assistant] Is there any specific place where everyone takes their staple and non-staples for sell?

[User] Yes, there is exactly place for selling.

[Assistant] So, when you need food or other stuffs where exactly do you get?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[Assistant] Is there any specific place where everyone takes their staple and non-staples for sell?

[User] Yes, there is exactly place for selling.

[Assistant] So, when you need food or other stuffs where exactly do you get?

[User] from Nearby villages

[Assistant] What about availability of water?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, there is exactly place for selling.

[Assistant] So, when you need food or other stuffs where exactly do you get?

[User] from Nearby villages

[Assistant] What about availability of water?

[User] There are those who depend so much on rain so they wait for the rainy season.

[Assistant] What about water to use at home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] from Nearby villages

[Assistant] What about availability of water?

[User] There are those who depend so much on rain so they wait for the rainy season.

[Assistant] What about water to use at home?

[User] It is available, but there is a bit of challenge because the well was built by the World Bank, so it pumps water to different places even students also get some for their use.

[Assistant] Do you think lack/shortage of water leads to shortage of food in the household?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] There are those who depend so much on rain so they wait for the rainy season.

[Assistant] What about water to use at home?

[User] It is available, but there is a bit of challenge because the well was built by the World Bank, so it pumps water to different places even students also get some for their use.

[Assistant] Do you think lack/shortage of water leads to shortage of food in the household?

[User] Irrigation system has made it easier to grow crops off-season, but also during the rainy season; you just prepare your field accordingly because rainy seasons are known.

[Assistant] What challenges do the villagers get concerning water use at home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It is available, but there is a bit of challenge because the well was built by the World Bank, so it pumps water to different places even students also get some for their use.

[Assistant] Do you think lack/shortage of water leads to shortage of food in the household?

[User] Irrigation system has made it easier to grow crops off-season, but also during the rainy season; you just prepare your field accordingly because rainy seasons are known.

[Assistant] What challenges do the villagers get concerning water use at home?

[User] Challenges, tap breakdown, congestion of people at the time of water collection because everyone depends on that well, In order to solve this problem, probably another well should be built.

[Assistant] When there is shortage of food in the household, what do you do overcome the situation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Irrigation system has made it easier to grow crops off-season, but also during the rainy season; you just prepare your field accordingly because rainy seasons are known.

[Assistant] What challenges do the villagers get concerning water use at home?

[User] Challenges, tap breakdown, congestion of people at the time of water collection because everyone depends on that well, In order to solve this problem, probably another well should be built.

[Assistant] When there is shortage of food in the household, what do you do overcome the situation?

[User] Well, if situation has occurred, you just sell one cow which you know exactly you get enough money to cover up the situation at home.

[Assistant] How much does it cost for a cow now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Challenges, tap breakdown, congestion of people at the time of water collection because everyone depends on that well, In order to solve this problem, probably another well should be built.

[Assistant] When there is shortage of food in the household, what do you do overcome the situation?

[User] Well, if situation has occurred, you just sell one cow which you know exactly you get enough money to cover up the situation at home.

[Assistant] How much does it cost for a cow now?

[User] It depends with the situation it ranges from 500,000 to 700,000 TZS.

[Assistant] So for those who are not well what do they do, if others are doing business?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, if situation has occurred, you just sell one cow which you know exactly you get enough money to cover up the situation at home.

[Assistant] How much does it cost for a cow now?

[User] It depends with the situation it ranges from 500,000 to 700,000 TZS.

[Assistant] So for those who are not well what do they do, if others are doing business?

[User] For the ones that cannot do business, they will just pass around to the neighbours and ask for help just for that day.

[Assistant] What do others do if the household does not have enough food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It depends with the situation it ranges from 500,000 to 700,000 TZS.

[Assistant] So for those who are not well what do they do, if others are doing business?

[User] For the ones that cannot do business, they will just pass around to the neighbours and ask for help just for that day.

[Assistant] What do others do if the household does not have enough food?

[User] Look for help from the neighbours or just pray to God.

[Assistant] What about to slaughter cattle?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] For the ones that cannot do business, they will just pass around to the neighbours and ask for help just for that day.

[Assistant] What do others do if the household does not have enough food?

[User] Look for help from the neighbours or just pray to God.

[Assistant] What about to slaughter cattle?

[User] For us Maasai, yes we do slaughter and eat a lot but for now we have reduced, we are after money.

[Assistant] Why do you prefer money to food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Look for help from the neighbours or just pray to God.

[Assistant] What about to slaughter cattle?

[User] For us Maasai, yes we do slaughter and eat a lot but for now we have reduced, we are after money.

[Assistant] Why do you prefer money to food?

[User] Education, because when we slaughter everyone come to eat even the enemy which I don’t like.

[Assistant] How many times do you slaughter in a month?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] For us Maasai, yes we do slaughter and eat a lot but for now we have reduced, we are after money.

[Assistant] Why do you prefer money to food?

[User] Education, because when we slaughter everyone come to eat even the enemy which I don’t like.

[Assistant] How many times do you slaughter in a month?

[User] For now it can even pass a month without slaughtering at all.

[Assistant] So, the meat you eat, where do you get it from?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Education, because when we slaughter everyone come to eat even the enemy which I don’t like.

[Assistant] How many times do you slaughter in a month?

[User] For now it can even pass a month without slaughtering at all.

[Assistant] So, the meat you eat, where do you get it from?

[User] Maybe if there is a ceremony, but previously we used to depend on meat and blood.

[Assistant] you only slaughter when there is ceremony?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] For now it can even pass a month without slaughtering at all.

[Assistant] So, the meat you eat, where do you get it from?

[User] Maybe if there is a ceremony, but previously we used to depend on meat and blood.

[Assistant] you only slaughter when there is ceremony?

[User] Its true, only during ceremonies or yearly, especially during the time when teenagers are going to their initiation ceremonies that is when we slaughter.

[Assistant] What about those who are left behind?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Maybe if there is a ceremony, but previously we used to depend on meat and blood.

[Assistant] you only slaughter when there is ceremony?

[User] Its true, only during ceremonies or yearly, especially during the time when teenagers are going to their initiation ceremonies that is when we slaughter.

[Assistant] What about those who are left behind?

[User] They will find their ways of surviving,

[Assistant] During shortage of food, what exactly do people eat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Its true, only during ceremonies or yearly, especially during the time when teenagers are going to their initiation ceremonies that is when we slaughter.

[Assistant] What about those who are left behind?

[User] They will find their ways of surviving,

[Assistant] During shortage of food, what exactly do people eat?

[User] for most Maasai they have cows; obviously they will depend on that especially milk and meat, as we had this program called MORE MILK they educated us about milk and how to store if someone has excess milk and don’t know where to take it.

[Assistant] When there is no enough food at home, who exactly gets the first priority during serving?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They will find their ways of surviving,

[Assistant] During shortage of food, what exactly do people eat?

[User] for most Maasai they have cows; obviously they will depend on that especially milk and meat, as we had this program called MORE MILK they educated us about milk and how to store if someone has excess milk and don’t know where to take it.

[Assistant] When there is no enough food at home, who exactly gets the first priority during serving?

[User] Children and Elders; Sometimes even the father in the house OR when the food has been distributed to the children is when others get. Mothers sacrifice a lot in order for everyone to eat.

[Assistant] Thank you, for your own views what group suffers a lot when there is shortage of food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] for most Maasai they have cows; obviously they will depend on that especially milk and meat, as we had this program called MORE MILK they educated us about milk and how to store if someone has excess milk and don’t know where to take it.

[Assistant] When there is no enough food at home, who exactly gets the first priority during serving?

[User] Children and Elders; Sometimes even the father in the house OR when the food has been distributed to the children is when others get. Mothers sacrifice a lot in order for everyone to eat.

[Assistant] Thank you, for your own views what group suffers a lot when there is shortage of food?

[User] The group that suffers a lot are those poor families/households, elders, children because they cannot go far to look for food.

[Assistant] What do men do when there is shortage of food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Children and Elders; Sometimes even the father in the house OR when the food has been distributed to the children is when others get. Mothers sacrifice a lot in order for everyone to eat.

[Assistant] Thank you, for your own views what group suffers a lot when there is shortage of food?

[User] The group that suffers a lot are those poor families/households, elders, children because they cannot go far to look for food.

[Assistant] What do men do when there is shortage of food?

[User] They suffer a lot; they will do anything in order to get something for the family.

[Assistant] Why did you say that children, elders and women are the ones that suffer a lot when there is shortage of food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The group that suffers a lot are those poor families/households, elders, children because they cannot go far to look for food.

[Assistant] What do men do when there is shortage of food?

[User] They suffer a lot; they will do anything in order to get something for the family.

[Assistant] Why did you say that children, elders and women are the ones that suffer a lot when there is shortage of food?

[User] It’s because they are the ones that stay home all the time, so you may find sometimes a man goes out to drink without leaving money behind for the family and yet come back at night and ask for food.

[Assistant] In your village, what should be done in order to eradicate this problem of food shortage?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They suffer a lot; they will do anything in order to get something for the family.

[Assistant] Why did you say that children, elders and women are the ones that suffer a lot when there is shortage of food?

[User] It’s because they are the ones that stay home all the time, so you may find sometimes a man goes out to drink without leaving money behind for the family and yet come back at night and ask for food.

[Assistant] In your village, what should be done in order to eradicate this problem of food shortage?

[User] As for me, if I could be able to persuade people to practice agriculture especially mixed farming.

[Assistant] When you look at your village, what percent of people engage themselves in agriculture?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It’s because they are the ones that stay home all the time, so you may find sometimes a man goes out to drink without leaving money behind for the family and yet come back at night and ask for food.

[Assistant] In your village, what should be done in order to eradicate this problem of food shortage?

[User] As for me, if I could be able to persuade people to practice agriculture especially mixed farming.

[Assistant] When you look at your village, what percent of people engage themselves in agriculture?

[User] Very few of them

[Assistant] Apart from agriculture, what else can be done in order to reduce shortage of food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] As for me, if I could be able to persuade people to practice agriculture especially mixed farming.

[Assistant] When you look at your village, what percent of people engage themselves in agriculture?

[User] Very few of them

[Assistant] Apart from agriculture, what else can be done in order to reduce shortage of food?

[User] Milk business if only there could be a centre in our village. NOW CAN WE TALK ABOUT WEATHER CHANGES

[Assistant] What can you say about environmental or weather changes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Very few of them

[Assistant] Apart from agriculture, what else can be done in order to reduce shortage of food?

[User] Milk business if only there could be a centre in our village. NOW CAN WE TALK ABOUT WEATHER CHANGES

[Assistant] What can you say about environmental or weather changes?

[User] When you talk about environmental changes it can be in a very wide range, let’s just talk about weather changes. For example last year when there was too much drought a lot of cattle died due to lack of pasture and water, this situation made other households to suffer a lot because they depend on milk and meat, some other people were about to commit suicide, but we thank God it did not happen.

[Assistant] When you say about weather change what do you really mean?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Milk business if only there could be a centre in our village. NOW CAN WE TALK ABOUT WEATHER CHANGES

[Assistant] What can you say about environmental or weather changes?

[User] When you talk about environmental changes it can be in a very wide range, let’s just talk about weather changes. For example last year when there was too much drought a lot of cattle died due to lack of pasture and water, this situation made other households to suffer a lot because they depend on milk and meat, some other people were about to commit suicide, but we thank God it did not happen.

[Assistant] When you say about weather change what do you really mean?

[User] when we say weather change, it means periods which usually happen In here, rainy season and dry season.

[Assistant] When did it really happen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] When you talk about environmental changes it can be in a very wide range, let’s just talk about weather changes. For example last year when there was too much drought a lot of cattle died due to lack of pasture and water, this situation made other households to suffer a lot because they depend on milk and meat, some other people were about to commit suicide, but we thank God it did not happen.

[Assistant] When you say about weather change what do you really mean?

[User] when we say weather change, it means periods which usually happen In here, rainy season and dry season.

[Assistant] When did it really happen?

[User] Previously it happened in 2000, 2007 but during this period the cattle did not die like in this year (2017), this was the longest dry season we have ever experienced.

[Assistant] What brought all these changes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] when we say weather change, it means periods which usually happen In here, rainy season and dry season.

[Assistant] When did it really happen?

[User] Previously it happened in 2000, 2007 but during this period the cattle did not die like in this year (2017), this was the longest dry season we have ever experienced.

[Assistant] What brought all these changes?

[User] I don’t have a real answer to this question but for my guess I might say, may be due to cutting down of trees for charcoal and having a lot of cattle moving from one place to another looking for pasture also can be a reason to it.

[Assistant] How did inadequate food, having a lot of cattle, little rain have affected the people of Mela?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Previously it happened in 2000, 2007 but during this period the cattle did not die like in this year (2017), this was the longest dry season we have ever experienced.

[Assistant] What brought all these changes?

[User] I don’t have a real answer to this question but for my guess I might say, may be due to cutting down of trees for charcoal and having a lot of cattle moving from one place to another looking for pasture also can be a reason to it.

[Assistant] How did inadequate food, having a lot of cattle, little rain have affected the people of Mela?

[User] All these changes have affected people, because some of them depend on the milk for sale even for personal use but unfortunately not anymore, so you may find a lot of people are suffering, and this is due to lack of pasture and water

[Assistant] I Would like also to know all these changes, like too much drought in an area how are the feeds affected?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I don’t have a real answer to this question but for my guess I might say, may be due to cutting down of trees for charcoal and having a lot of cattle moving from one place to another looking for pasture also can be a reason to it.

[Assistant] How did inadequate food, having a lot of cattle, little rain have affected the people of Mela?

[User] All these changes have affected people, because some of them depend on the milk for sale even for personal use but unfortunately not anymore, so you may find a lot of people are suffering, and this is due to lack of pasture and water

[Assistant] I Would like also to know all these changes, like too much drought in an area how are the feeds affected?

[User] Lack of pasture and water, a lot of places were dried up.

[Assistant] So what do people do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] All these changes have affected people, because some of them depend on the milk for sale even for personal use but unfortunately not anymore, so you may find a lot of people are suffering, and this is due to lack of pasture and water

[Assistant] I Would like also to know all these changes, like too much drought in an area how are the feeds affected?

[User] Lack of pasture and water, a lot of places were dried up.

[Assistant] So what do people do?

[User] the cattle are being shifted from one place to another.

[Assistant] So where do you usually take them when you say you are shifting the cattle from one place to another?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Lack of pasture and water, a lot of places were dried up.

[Assistant] So what do people do?

[User] the cattle are being shifted from one place to another.

[Assistant] So where do you usually take them when you say you are shifting the cattle from one place to another?

[User] Just other place where we can get pasture and water for the cattle .

[Assistant] When you shift with the cattle what exactly do people eat there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] the cattle are being shifted from one place to another.

[Assistant] So where do you usually take them when you say you are shifting the cattle from one place to another?

[User] Just other place where we can get pasture and water for the cattle .

[Assistant] When you shift with the cattle what exactly do people eat there?

[User] We usually carry food with us

[Assistant] And for those who remain behind?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Just other place where we can get pasture and water for the cattle .

[Assistant] When you shift with the cattle what exactly do people eat there?

[User] We usually carry food with us

[Assistant] And for those who remain behind?

[User] We eat ugali and stew, or any other stew that is available

[Assistant] due to this weather change like too much drought, did it make people change their personal activities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We usually carry food with us

[Assistant] And for those who remain behind?

[User] We eat ugali and stew, or any other stew that is available

[Assistant] due to this weather change like too much drought, did it make people change their personal activities?

[User] if we talk about activities that increase capital, for real it’s hard, in Mela there are no people who deal with this small business, so you may find it is very difficult to start a business in Mela, and during this situation like dry season is when they sell cow in order to get money and buy food

[Assistant] In Mela, apart from livestock keeping there is no any other business or activity that people practice?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We eat ugali and stew, or any other stew that is available

[Assistant] due to this weather change like too much drought, did it make people change their personal activities?

[User] if we talk about activities that increase capital, for real it’s hard, in Mela there are no people who deal with this small business, so you may find it is very difficult to start a business in Mela, and during this situation like dry season is when they sell cow in order to get money and buy food

[Assistant] In Mela, apart from livestock keeping there is no any other business or activity that people practice?

[User] So there is no any other activity that people do?

[Assistant] Do people go far from the village to look for other jobs or activities to do?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] if we talk about activities that increase capital, for real it’s hard, in Mela there are no people who deal with this small business, so you may find it is very difficult to start a business in Mela, and during this situation like dry season is when they sell cow in order to get money and buy food

[Assistant] In Mela, apart from livestock keeping there is no any other business or activity that people practice?

[User] So there is no any other activity that people do?

[Assistant] Do people go far from the village to look for other jobs or activities to do?

[User] There are people who do that, especially youths are the ones who most of them go to town and look for jobs in the companies, which help them get money and provide food for the family.

[Assistant] How does this change affect milk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] So there is no any other activity that people do?

[Assistant] Do people go far from the village to look for other jobs or activities to do?

[User] There are people who do that, especially youths are the ones who most of them go to town and look for jobs in the companies, which help them get money and provide food for the family.

[Assistant] How does this change affect milk?

[User] of course it did affect due to lack of pasture

[Assistant] Are there any changes due to roles in the family?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] There are people who do that, especially youths are the ones who most of them go to town and look for jobs in the companies, which help them get money and provide food for the family.

[Assistant] How does this change affect milk?

[User] of course it did affect due to lack of pasture

[Assistant] Are there any changes due to roles in the family?

[User] Yes, there are changes like misunderstanding in the family between wife and husband, you may find husband going out to drink while the family has no food.

[Assistant] Does weather change led to increase or decrease of conflict between farmers and pastoralist?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] of course it did affect due to lack of pasture

[Assistant] Are there any changes due to roles in the family?

[User] Yes, there are changes like misunderstanding in the family between wife and husband, you may find husband going out to drink while the family has no food.

[Assistant] Does weather change led to increase or decrease of conflict between farmers and pastoralist?

[User] Weather change had led to increase of conflict between farmers and pastoralist,

[Assistant] For those who depend much on milk, what do they do when the cattle are shifted?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, there are changes like misunderstanding in the family between wife and husband, you may find husband going out to drink while the family has no food.

[Assistant] Does weather change led to increase or decrease of conflict between farmers and pastoralist?

[User] Weather change had led to increase of conflict between farmers and pastoralist,

[Assistant] For those who depend much on milk, what do they do when the cattle are shifted?

[User] They should learn to eat other kinds of food.

[Assistant] And for the children?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Weather change had led to increase of conflict between farmers and pastoralist,

[Assistant] For those who depend much on milk, what do they do when the cattle are shifted?

[User] They should learn to eat other kinds of food.

[Assistant] And for the children?

[User] Also they should learn to eat other kinds of food, but sometimes they get milk from goats

[Assistant] Goats are not affected with the weather changes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They should learn to eat other kinds of food.

[Assistant] And for the children?

[User] Also they should learn to eat other kinds of food, but sometimes they get milk from goats

[Assistant] Goats are not affected with the weather changes?

[User] Not at all

[Assistant] So, nowadays goats milk is acceptable?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Also they should learn to eat other kinds of food, but sometimes they get milk from goats

[Assistant] Goats are not affected with the weather changes?

[User] Not at all

[Assistant] So, nowadays goats milk is acceptable?

[User] YES

[Assistant] NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT CHANGE IN ROLES IN THE COMMUNITY You said in Mela there is no any other activity done by youths apart from them going to town and look for jobs.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Not at all

[Assistant] So, nowadays goats milk is acceptable?

[User] YES

[Assistant] NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT CHANGE IN ROLES IN THE COMMUNITY You said in Mela there is no any other activity done by youths apart from them going to town and look for jobs.

[User] Some of them they do go to towns and return back but not girls.

[Assistant] What is the difference?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] YES

[Assistant] NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT CHANGE IN ROLES IN THE COMMUNITY You said in Mela there is no any other activity done by youths apart from them going to town and look for jobs.

[User] Some of them they do go to towns and return back but not girls.

[Assistant] What is the difference?

[User] Some girls end up getting married by the “Swahilis"; For us Maasai, we don’t like to interact with the “Swahilis” especially in marriage issues. So it is hard for the girls to come back.

[Assistant] So even here in Mela, there are youths who do not practice any other activity?