[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, you know, my daddy was a pharmacist. He had two drugstores. It was a tough life, because it was back in the days—it was during the Depression, and so, therefore, they were happy I had a job. That’s the honest truth. They were just happy that I had a job and that I could support myself. In those days, we didn’t have to worry about our safety. You didn’t. I never felt threatened or anything—never. Therefore, I felt that I was perfectly safe everywhere I went. It never occurred to me that I could have been in any danger.\n\n I had a job that paid well and that was interesting. I was never bored. I was fortunate that I had people that were over me that gave me credit for having some sense.

[Assistant] Even today, women have problems with that.

[User] Never—in that division, we were always given the greatest respect. They gave us jobs that really gave us some credit. They really did. I felt very, very fortunate that way.

[Assistant] Do you remember what your salary was when you first started?

[User] I can remember the first one. It was 60 dollars a month.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness! You were excited, weren’t you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Never—in that division, we were always given the greatest respect. They gave us jobs that really gave us some credit. They really did. I felt very, very fortunate that way.

[Assistant] Do you remember what your salary was when you first started?

[User] I can remember the first one. It was 60 dollars a month.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness! You were excited, weren’t you?

[User] That was a lot of money!

[Assistant] When you first came here, coming from South Carolina and then coming to this area but arriving at Langley, and the wind tunnels and that sort of thing, what were your first impressions of what you had walked into?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I can remember the first one. It was 60 dollars a month.

[Assistant] Oh my goodness! You were excited, weren’t you?

[User] That was a lot of money!

[Assistant] When you first came here, coming from South Carolina and then coming to this area but arriving at Langley, and the wind tunnels and that sort of thing, what were your first impressions of what you had walked into?

[User] I was probably pretty much awestruck, overwhelmed quite a bit, and I would go to this huge tunnel—the 16-foot [16-foot High Speed Tunnel]. The 19-foot was in the East Area. This one was over on the West Area. Anyway, I went inside of that thing and looked at the propeller. I was amazed. That thing was big. I had no idea it was that big. Boy, when they put the air going through that thing, it was a lot of air.

[Assistant] So, you were there from ’43 to ’45? You met your husband there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was a lot of money!

[Assistant] When you first came here, coming from South Carolina and then coming to this area but arriving at Langley, and the wind tunnels and that sort of thing, what were your first impressions of what you had walked into?

[User] I was probably pretty much awestruck, overwhelmed quite a bit, and I would go to this huge tunnel—the 16-foot [16-foot High Speed Tunnel]. The 19-foot was in the East Area. This one was over on the West Area. Anyway, I went inside of that thing and looked at the propeller. I was amazed. That thing was big. I had no idea it was that big. Boy, when they put the air going through that thing, it was a lot of air.

[Assistant] So, you were there from ’43 to ’45? You met your husband there?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was he doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] What was he doing?

[User] He was an engineer. He was a civil engineer and some of his work involved wind tunnel design. He was also a project engineer for the Jefferson Lab [Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility]. You know what the Jefferson Lab is. That’s here, but the universities took it over. He was in charge of that construction when they were building it. That job just about finished him off. He was really worn out when that thing was finished, but he travelled all over. There were two other cyclotrons in this country. One was in California, and one was in the Midwest. I can’t remember where, though, but he had to visit them quite a bit.\n\n He was gone a lot. He just practically lived over there at the construction site. Then, when the universities took it over, he got out of the picture altogether. He was head of the whole project, which was a big, big job. He was a smart man. You would never know it, though, because he never flaunted it. He was a very quiet type of person, but he knew what was going on all of the time. I think he helped me a lot with that dadgum slide rule.\n\n I can remember we [women computers] did not have a calculator. We finally got a Monroe, which did adding and subtracting. Then, finally, we got a Friden, and that did multiplication and division and did the square roots and all that kind of stuff. We were fighting over those things. [Figure 4]

[Assistant] Were you?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many other mathematicians or computers worked in your area where you worked?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He was an engineer. He was a civil engineer and some of his work involved wind tunnel design. He was also a project engineer for the Jefferson Lab [Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility]. You know what the Jefferson Lab is. That’s here, but the universities took it over. He was in charge of that construction when they were building it. That job just about finished him off. He was really worn out when that thing was finished, but he travelled all over. There were two other cyclotrons in this country. One was in California, and one was in the Midwest. I can’t remember where, though, but he had to visit them quite a bit.\n\n He was gone a lot. He just practically lived over there at the construction site. Then, when the universities took it over, he got out of the picture altogether. He was head of the whole project, which was a big, big job. He was a smart man. You would never know it, though, because he never flaunted it. He was a very quiet type of person, but he knew what was going on all of the time. I think he helped me a lot with that dadgum slide rule.\n\n I can remember we [women computers] did not have a calculator. We finally got a Monroe, which did adding and subtracting. Then, finally, we got a Friden, and that did multiplication and division and did the square roots and all that kind of stuff. We were fighting over those things. [Figure 4]

[Assistant] Were you?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many other mathematicians or computers worked in your area where you worked?

[User] The 19-foot was the Central Computer Pool [Figure 1]. That’s really what it was. I would say—oh, golly—10 or 15 altogether in the whole office. We were given different jobs to work on. We shared a desk with somebody else. We didn’t have our own desk. There were two people to a desk. I can remember the one that had shared mine. Oh, boy, was he a dilly!

[Assistant] Was he a mathematician also?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] How many other mathematicians or computers worked in your area where you worked?

[User] The 19-foot was the Central Computer Pool [Figure 1]. That’s really what it was. I would say—oh, golly—10 or 15 altogether in the whole office. We were given different jobs to work on. We shared a desk with somebody else. We didn’t have our own desk. There were two people to a desk. I can remember the one that had shared mine. Oh, boy, was he a dilly!

[Assistant] Was he a mathematician also?

[User] No. He was not really well-educated. He did equations, but he was not an engineer.

[Assistant] So, there were some men that were doing the same type of job that you were doing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The 19-foot was the Central Computer Pool [Figure 1]. That’s really what it was. I would say—oh, golly—10 or 15 altogether in the whole office. We were given different jobs to work on. We shared a desk with somebody else. We didn’t have our own desk. There were two people to a desk. I can remember the one that had shared mine. Oh, boy, was he a dilly!

[Assistant] Was he a mathematician also?

[User] No. He was not really well-educated. He did equations, but he was not an engineer.

[Assistant] So, there were some men that were doing the same type of job that you were doing?

[User] Yes. There were very few girls at NACA.

[Assistant] When you started?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. He was not really well-educated. He did equations, but he was not an engineer.

[Assistant] So, there were some men that were doing the same type of job that you were doing?

[User] Yes. There were very few girls at NACA.

[Assistant] When you started?

[User] Yes. Usually, back in those days, everybody went into the computer pool first, and then you were fed out into different sections after you had your basic training. I stayed in the 19-foot for a very short time. Then, Phil Donely took me over. He did a lot for me. He really gave me a lot of responsible jobs.

[Assistant] Were you the only mathematician, at that time, working for him?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. There were very few girls at NACA.

[Assistant] When you started?

[User] Yes. Usually, back in those days, everybody went into the computer pool first, and then you were fed out into different sections after you had your basic training. I stayed in the 19-foot for a very short time. Then, Phil Donely took me over. He did a lot for me. He really gave me a lot of responsible jobs.

[Assistant] Were you the only mathematician, at that time, working for him?

[User] I think, probably so, but I don’t remember exactly. There were not very many girls in there. There were some. We have a couple of computers living here—Dot Coleman. She lived on my street. Now, Dot’s health is not good. She went there the same time I did. We both lived on Kecoughtan Road at one time. Do you know where that is? That’s in Hampton. They had an apartment—she and another girl that lived together. They had an apartment on Kecoughtan Road.\n\n I later lived in South Hampton in one of the apartments, but those were not built when we first moved here. We just had to rent a room from somebody. Most of it was right around the Chesapeake Boulevard, in that area. We all had to ride buses to and from work to the Langley Field. That seemed like a long ride—believe me—a long one, especially if you’re doing it at midnight. We did take our turns at the midnight shift. We had several shifts. I pulled my share of the midnight shift, but I didn’t mind it. I liked the shift, because it was quiet, and you got your work done. That was fine. I didn’t mind that at all.

[Assistant] You said you got even with those pilots. I was just wondering if you would tell us how you got even with them—the ones that were watching you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That was a pilot that I got even with. He rode a motorcycle. He asked me to ride the motorcycle with him. It was a cold day. I’ll never forget it. I didn’t have any gloves, I didn’t have a hat or scarf or anything. I was sitting on the back of that motorcycle, and we were going out to[the air field. I was so cold, so I got somebody to take me home in their car, and he got so mad at me. I’ll never forget that.

[Assistant] That’s quite a story.

[User] Jack [John P.] Reeder was a test pilot. I knew him. I taught all of his children in school. I got situated not working at NACA anymore, and I taught school. I loved teaching school. I adored it. I could do it all over again if they’d have me. That was my thing. I taught math, music, and art.

[Assistant] What a combination!

[User] Yes, it was wonderful.

[Assistant] How many years did you teach?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Jack [John P.] Reeder was a test pilot. I knew him. I taught all of his children in school. I got situated not working at NACA anymore, and I taught school. I loved teaching school. I adored it. I could do it all over again if they’d have me. That was my thing. I taught math, music, and art.

[Assistant] What a combination!

[User] Yes, it was wonderful.

[Assistant] How many years did you teach?

[User] Almost 20, and I loved every minute. I absolutely adored it. I was made to teach. I was. I think my experience of working in the field like I did made a big difference, because I taught a lot of children that wanted to go into that field. They didn’t get any encouragement from anybody, but they got it from me. I think that helped a whole lot, because I had experienced it, and they could see how much I loved it, and I loved teaching. I just adored teaching, because I like children.\n\n I taught in the neighborhood school, so no busing. [Many] walked to school. They would go home after school, change their clothes, and come back to school. They would come back in my room, and they would say, “Mrs. Jaehnig, will you come out and play with us?”\n\n I said, “Of course. What do you want to play?” So, I’d go out on the playground and play with them. It was wonderful.

[Assistant] What grades did you teach?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was wonderful.

[Assistant] How many years did you teach?

[User] Almost 20, and I loved every minute. I absolutely adored it. I was made to teach. I was. I think my experience of working in the field like I did made a big difference, because I taught a lot of children that wanted to go into that field. They didn’t get any encouragement from anybody, but they got it from me. I think that helped a whole lot, because I had experienced it, and they could see how much I loved it, and I loved teaching. I just adored teaching, because I like children.\n\n I taught in the neighborhood school, so no busing. [Many] walked to school. They would go home after school, change their clothes, and come back to school. They would come back in my room, and they would say, “Mrs. Jaehnig, will you come out and play with us?”\n\n I said, “Of course. What do you want to play?” So, I’d go out on the playground and play with them. It was wonderful.

[Assistant] What grades did you teach?

[User] Six and seven—the hardest ones. It’s the hardest age, but I adored it. I adored it. I could handle them. I could give them a dose of their own medicine. I did not have a single discipline problem. I really didn’t. I just loved every minute of it. Just every minute of it—I loved it. I’d go back tomorrow if they’d have me.

[Assistant] When you first got to Langley, were there a lot of social activities? It was during the war, so was everyone just concentrating on the work, or did they also have the social activities?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Six and seven—the hardest ones. It’s the hardest age, but I adored it. I adored it. I could handle them. I could give them a dose of their own medicine. I did not have a single discipline problem. I really didn’t. I just loved every minute of it. Just every minute of it—I loved it. I’d go back tomorrow if they’d have me.

[Assistant] When you first got to Langley, were there a lot of social activities? It was during the war, so was everyone just concentrating on the work, or did they also have the social activities?

[User] No, they had parties. There was a lot of drinking, which I didn’t get involved in. There was a lot of drinking and all that kind of stuff. These people were just out of school, and they were really spreading their wings. That didn’t make me happy. That didn’t make me happy at all. I wasn’t that type of person. There was a lot of drinking and all that, but I never got involved in all that, but it was there.

[Assistant] How did you meet your husband?

[User] He lived in the apartment next door to me. He was the only one that had a car, so we all went for him. He inherited a car from his grandfather. It was a Studebaker. It was a nice car, too. He did a lot of hauling around of people. He was very popular.

[Assistant] I imagine, during that time, because it was hard to get a car during the war.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they had parties. There was a lot of drinking, which I didn’t get involved in. There was a lot of drinking and all that kind of stuff. These people were just out of school, and they were really spreading their wings. That didn’t make me happy. That didn’t make me happy at all. I wasn’t that type of person. There was a lot of drinking and all that, but I never got involved in all that, but it was there.

[Assistant] How did you meet your husband?

[User] He lived in the apartment next door to me. He was the only one that had a car, so we all went for him. He inherited a car from his grandfather. It was a Studebaker. It was a nice car, too. He did a lot of hauling around of people. He was very popular.

[Assistant] I imagine, during that time, because it was hard to get a car during the war.

[User] It was. We had that Studebaker for a long time after we were married. Having a car was really something.

[Assistant]
That was an interesting time. Rebecca, do you have any questions?

You mentioned earlier when we were chatting that he went to war as well?

He joined the service [U.S. Public Health Service – “declared to be a military service and a branch of the land and naval forces of the United States” during WWII].


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He lived in the apartment next door to me. He was the only one that had a car, so we all went for him. He inherited a car from his grandfather. It was a Studebaker. It was a nice car, too. He did a lot of hauling around of people. He was very popular.

[Assistant] I imagine, during that time, because it was hard to get a car during the war.

[User] It was. We had that Studebaker for a long time after we were married. Having a car was really something.

[Assistant]
That was an interesting time. Rebecca, do you have any questions?

You mentioned earlier when we were chatting that he went to war as well?

He joined the service [U.S. Public Health Service – “declared to be a military service and a branch of the land and naval forces of the United States” during WWII].

[User] Yes. He knew that he was going to be drafted. That was when they had the draft. He knew that his name was going to come up soon, so he went ahead and joined.

[Assistant] Did you work while he was gone, or were you home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was. We had that Studebaker for a long time after we were married. Having a car was really something.

[Assistant]
That was an interesting time. Rebecca, do you have any questions?

You mentioned earlier when we were chatting that he went to war as well?

He joined the service [U.S. Public Health Service – “declared to be a military service and a branch of the land and naval forces of the United States” during WWII].

[User] Yes. He knew that he was going to be drafted. That was when they had the draft. He knew that his name was going to come up soon, so he went ahead and joined.

[Assistant] Did you work while he was gone, or were you home?

[User] I quit working when I got married, because I didn’t have a job, and he was stationed in Mississippi. They were so backward. Oh, golly! I had a job in Mississippi, but it was nothing to do with aeronautics. I had a job as a classification agent for a cotton bale company. That was the only job you could have. We didn’t have mayonnaise. We didn’t have any shoes. They were all rationed. All of the shoes were made out of cardboard. We couldn’t get salad dressing. We couldn’t get butter. We couldn’t get anything like that, because they were using all of the grease for ammunition, so therefore, we did without a lot of stuff. That didn’t make any difference to us. We didn’t care. He joined the Public Health Service, even though he was not that trained. He did research work for malaria fever. That’s what he was put in.

[Assistant] He was a civil engineer, doing research work on malaria. How interesting!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. He knew that he was going to be drafted. That was when they had the draft. He knew that his name was going to come up soon, so he went ahead and joined.

[Assistant] Did you work while he was gone, or were you home?

[User] I quit working when I got married, because I didn’t have a job, and he was stationed in Mississippi. They were so backward. Oh, golly! I had a job in Mississippi, but it was nothing to do with aeronautics. I had a job as a classification agent for a cotton bale company. That was the only job you could have. We didn’t have mayonnaise. We didn’t have any shoes. They were all rationed. All of the shoes were made out of cardboard. We couldn’t get salad dressing. We couldn’t get butter. We couldn’t get anything like that, because they were using all of the grease for ammunition, so therefore, we did without a lot of stuff. That didn’t make any difference to us. We didn’t care. He joined the Public Health Service, even though he was not that trained. He did research work for malaria fever. That’s what he was put in.

[Assistant] He was a civil engineer, doing research work on malaria. How interesting!

[User] He got malaria. He did. Yes, he caught malaria. I never will forget it. I thought he’d never get well, but he got it from fooling around with doing experiments with mosquitoes. That’s what they put him on. That’s the way that the government does though.

[Assistant] I guess so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I quit working when I got married, because I didn’t have a job, and he was stationed in Mississippi. They were so backward. Oh, golly! I had a job in Mississippi, but it was nothing to do with aeronautics. I had a job as a classification agent for a cotton bale company. That was the only job you could have. We didn’t have mayonnaise. We didn’t have any shoes. They were all rationed. All of the shoes were made out of cardboard. We couldn’t get salad dressing. We couldn’t get butter. We couldn’t get anything like that, because they were using all of the grease for ammunition, so therefore, we did without a lot of stuff. That didn’t make any difference to us. We didn’t care. He joined the Public Health Service, even though he was not that trained. He did research work for malaria fever. That’s what he was put in.

[Assistant] He was a civil engineer, doing research work on malaria. How interesting!

[User] He got malaria. He did. Yes, he caught malaria. I never will forget it. I thought he’d never get well, but he got it from fooling around with doing experiments with mosquitoes. That’s what they put him on. That’s the way that the government does though.

[Assistant] I guess so.

[User] He stayed just long enough after the war was over, he got out. His former professor offered him a job teaching at the University of Wisconsin. He taught surveying. That’s the way it was.

[Assistant] When did you come back here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He got malaria. He did. Yes, he caught malaria. I never will forget it. I thought he’d never get well, but he got it from fooling around with doing experiments with mosquitoes. That’s what they put him on. That’s the way that the government does though.

[Assistant] I guess so.

[User] He stayed just long enough after the war was over, he got out. His former professor offered him a job teaching at the University of Wisconsin. He taught surveying. That’s the way it was.

[Assistant] When did you come back here?

[User] We came back here when it got so cold I couldn’t take it anymore. You go outside, and it’s 20 [degrees] below every night. You wash a diaper, and it freezes before you can put it on the line. It was stiff as a board before you put it on the line. I had to walk as far as from here to the highway to go to the bathroom, but I was happy. I was happy. I was not unhappy a bit.\n\n I can remember one night. We heard this sniffling in our tent. I quickly got up. He said, “Do you have anything to eat in here?”\n\n I said, “Yeah, I’ve got a candy bar.”\n\n He said, “Give it to him.” It was a raccoon. So, I got my candy bar and gave it to that dumb raccoon. We were lucky. We had a floor in our tent, but the top was canvas, and all of these daddy longlegs crawling everywhere. I’ll never forget them. It was hard.

[Assistant] But, you made it through.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] He stayed just long enough after the war was over, he got out. His former professor offered him a job teaching at the University of Wisconsin. He taught surveying. That’s the way it was.

[Assistant] When did you come back here?

[User] We came back here when it got so cold I couldn’t take it anymore. You go outside, and it’s 20 [degrees] below every night. You wash a diaper, and it freezes before you can put it on the line. It was stiff as a board before you put it on the line. I had to walk as far as from here to the highway to go to the bathroom, but I was happy. I was happy. I was not unhappy a bit.\n\n I can remember one night. We heard this sniffling in our tent. I quickly got up. He said, “Do you have anything to eat in here?”\n\n I said, “Yeah, I’ve got a candy bar.”\n\n He said, “Give it to him.” It was a raccoon. So, I got my candy bar and gave it to that dumb raccoon. We were lucky. We had a floor in our tent, but the top was canvas, and all of these daddy longlegs crawling everywhere. I’ll never forget them. It was hard.

[Assistant] But, you made it through.

[User] We were happy. You learned to be happy, I don’t care what your situation is. You learned to be happy, and so it didn’t matter to us. You’d just adjust.

[Assistant] You started teaching when you came back here? Is that when you started, after you had your children?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We came back here when it got so cold I couldn’t take it anymore. You go outside, and it’s 20 [degrees] below every night. You wash a diaper, and it freezes before you can put it on the line. It was stiff as a board before you put it on the line. I had to walk as far as from here to the highway to go to the bathroom, but I was happy. I was happy. I was not unhappy a bit.\n\n I can remember one night. We heard this sniffling in our tent. I quickly got up. He said, “Do you have anything to eat in here?”\n\n I said, “Yeah, I’ve got a candy bar.”\n\n He said, “Give it to him.” It was a raccoon. So, I got my candy bar and gave it to that dumb raccoon. We were lucky. We had a floor in our tent, but the top was canvas, and all of these daddy longlegs crawling everywhere. I’ll never forget them. It was hard.

[Assistant] But, you made it through.

[User] We were happy. You learned to be happy, I don’t care what your situation is. You learned to be happy, and so it didn’t matter to us. You’d just adjust.

[Assistant] You started teaching when you came back here? Is that when you started, after you had your children?

[User] Yes, after my children, I decided I was not going to teach until my children were big enough to come home, and if I’m not there, they’d be okay. They were in the fourth and eighth grades before I started teaching. It was the right thing for me. I loved teaching. I’d go back tomorrow if they’d have me. I really loved teaching.

[Assistant] Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to talk about, or any other experiences, anecdotes, or anything you want to share during your time there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were happy. You learned to be happy, I don’t care what your situation is. You learned to be happy, and so it didn’t matter to us. You’d just adjust.

[Assistant] You started teaching when you came back here? Is that when you started, after you had your children?

[User] Yes, after my children, I decided I was not going to teach until my children were big enough to come home, and if I’m not there, they’d be okay. They were in the fourth and eighth grades before I started teaching. It was the right thing for me. I loved teaching. I’d go back tomorrow if they’d have me. I really loved teaching.

[Assistant] Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you’d like to talk about, or any other experiences, anecdotes, or anything you want to share during your time there?

[User] I’ll think of a million things tonight. I hope I haven’t disappointed you.

[Assistant]
No, not at all. You’ve told us some things that are pretty interesting.

Crawling up in those planes. Did they ever take you on a plane trip? Did you ever get to ride in one of those planes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The first time I heard about it was in the Kennedy speech and a Shriver speech. And then I inquired a little bit more and met her because she was a recruiter on campus.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] So but I didn't tell a lot of people that I was interested in the Peace Corps because this would have been seen as something breaking what appeared to be a life that was going to be well-planned. And I would be a high school teacher, probably eventually get a graduate degree and become a high school principal in Chicago, which was considered to be a very wonderful place in our society, a great career and settle down. A normal life.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] Like so many of my classmates and alums of Chicago Teachers College did. My best friend also did. So I confided to two people that I was going to think about joining the Peace Corps. First of all, my mother. And interestingly enough, Jay, she was really, she was really excited about the idea. She had never traveled anywhere outside of the country at that time, but she thought it was a good idea. Government program. I would learn a foreign language. She figured I'd be in a secure place. And the other person was my best friend from high school who also we went to college together, as my friend Harry Simmons. He thought also it was an interesting idea. Everybody else in my family and circle of friends, they thought this was a crazy idea.

[Assistant] Including your dad?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] At the time, it was one of Peace Corps' largest countries, largest programs. In those days, the big programs, Jay, were Brazil, Philippines, India. Indonesia, not being Indonesia, was still thought of Indonesia. So that's how I ended up being accepted into the Peace Corps. And I was sent to San Diego State College in San Diego, California, for training, along with a hundred other people who were going to be divided between those two countries. So off I went, my first airplane, my first jet airplane trip to San Diego. I left Chicago in early, I guess in October or September, flew out to California and started what was going to be, as it turned out, one of the most momentous decisions of my life.

[Assistant] Yeah. So how long was your training?

[User] It was 14 weeks.

[Assistant] 14 weeks.

[User] Yep, 14 weeks. And from August, actually from August to December. And it covered a wide range of things. It covered both area studies and technical studies. We learned Spanish, student teaching, science and education theory, reading, language arts, general curriculum, community development. We also had a really interesting component of kind of survival training, field training in Mexico. It was in Baja California.

[Assistant] Oh, so you went down to Baja?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was 14 weeks.

[Assistant] 14 weeks.

[User] Yep, 14 weeks. And from August, actually from August to December. And it covered a wide range of things. It covered both area studies and technical studies. We learned Spanish, student teaching, science and education theory, reading, language arts, general curriculum, community development. We also had a really interesting component of kind of survival training, field training in Mexico. It was in Baja California.

[Assistant] Oh, so you went down to Baja?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Which was an easier thing to do back then.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Which was an easier thing to do back then.

[User] Yeah, that's right. But it was also the toughest part of a Peace Corps training because we were just dumped down there with a few dollars and told to find our host families and arrange with them to stay with them. And then we would also be assigned to teacher training slots or teacher internships, if you will, in Mexican schools. So that was quite an eye-opening experience. That was the toughest part of our Peace Corps training. It was cold in Baja California. We didn't have much money. I slept in bed with seven children. That's all the families could offer. You know, it was not much food. And my Spanish was rudimentary at best at the time, so it was an eye-opening experience. But so was working in the San Diego County and in Chula Vista schools. That was also eye opening, right?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was really quite an interesting experience. Of course, all of us were trained teachers or had graduated education, and so we all felt very comfortable in the classrooms.

[Assistant] So Chula Vista is close to the border and there's a very large Hispanic population there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, that's right. But it was also the toughest part of a Peace Corps training because we were just dumped down there with a few dollars and told to find our host families and arrange with them to stay with them. And then we would also be assigned to teacher training slots or teacher internships, if you will, in Mexican schools. So that was quite an eye-opening experience. That was the toughest part of our Peace Corps training. It was cold in Baja California. We didn't have much money. I slept in bed with seven children. That's all the families could offer. You know, it was not much food. And my Spanish was rudimentary at best at the time, so it was an eye-opening experience. But so was working in the San Diego County and in Chula Vista schools. That was also eye opening, right?

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] So it was really quite an interesting experience. Of course, all of us were trained teachers or had graduated education, and so we all felt very comfortable in the classrooms.

[Assistant] So Chula Vista is close to the border and there's a very large Hispanic population there?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you were teaching in schools.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So it was really quite an interesting experience. Of course, all of us were trained teachers or had graduated education, and so we all felt very comfortable in the classrooms.

[Assistant] So Chula Vista is close to the border and there's a very large Hispanic population there?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you were teaching in schools.

[User] We're teaching kids who were somewhat bilingual, but not entirely. Spanish was really their first language.

[Assistant] Let me back up a minute. So your mother was supportive of this? What if she wasn't? What would you have done if she had told you you're crazy?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] So you were teaching in schools.

[User] We're teaching kids who were somewhat bilingual, but not entirely. Spanish was really their first language.

[Assistant] Let me back up a minute. So your mother was supportive of this? What if she wasn't? What would you have done if she had told you you're crazy?

[User] It would have made it harder but I'm pretty sure that by that time, I was pretty much really intrigued by the Peace Corps concept and idea. And I had read a lot about the Peace Corps. The more I read, the more enthusiastic I became, and I don't think it would have changed my decision. Luckily, I didn't have to face that.

[Assistant] And did the rest of your friends and family kind of come around after a while?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It would have made it harder but I'm pretty sure that by that time, I was pretty much really intrigued by the Peace Corps concept and idea. And I had read a lot about the Peace Corps. The more I read, the more enthusiastic I became, and I don't think it would have changed my decision. Luckily, I didn't have to face that.

[Assistant] And did the rest of your friends and family kind of come around after a while?

[User] Not really, no. Not until I've been overseas for about a year.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, because this was a big mystery. And also, why would somebody who just achieved a great feat of a college degree and had a really great job, which would put me on track to having a great middle class life? Why would I give that up to go to some strange place that no one had ever heard of? To do something they didn't know quite what was going to be the outcome? It was a mystery.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Well, back in the, this would have been what, 1966, '67?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Not really, no. Not until I've been overseas for about a year.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] You know, because this was a big mystery. And also, why would somebody who just achieved a great feat of a college degree and had a really great job, which would put me on track to having a great middle class life? Why would I give that up to go to some strange place that no one had ever heard of? To do something they didn't know quite what was going to be the outcome? It was a mystery.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Well, back in the, this would have been what, 1966, '67?

[User] '67. Yeah.

[Assistant] That was the time when people didn't travel overseas as much as they do now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, because this was a big mystery. And also, why would somebody who just achieved a great feat of a college degree and had a really great job, which would put me on track to having a great middle class life? Why would I give that up to go to some strange place that no one had ever heard of? To do something they didn't know quite what was going to be the outcome? It was a mystery.

[Assistant] Yeah, yeah. Well, back in the, this would have been what, 1966, '67?

[User] '67. Yeah.

[Assistant] That was the time when people didn't travel overseas as much as they do now.

[User] That's right. Yeah, travel on an airplane there was, people wore suits, it was very, you know, very formal. You know, you got served your meals on china and glassware and fine silver. So it was a totally different world.

[Assistant] Yeah. Great. So and then you got assigned to Dominican Republic.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Five being native speaker, four being proficient, and so forth. And I got a one plus. It was probably more like a one minus somehow. And but I was certain that I probably got, I was selected because, first, I had volunteered to go to the Dominican Republic, and secondly, because I was a certified teacher.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] So I was very confident for some unknown reason that once I got to the D.R., I was going to be able to become more proficient in Spanish. I was just, I had a feeling about that.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So I left with probably the lowest score of anybody of my 100 colleagues, right, and went to the Dominican Republic.

[Assistant] It was sink or swim.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I was very confident for some unknown reason that once I got to the D.R., I was going to be able to become more proficient in Spanish. I was just, I had a feeling about that.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] So I left with probably the lowest score of anybody of my 100 colleagues, right, and went to the Dominican Republic.

[Assistant] It was sink or swim.

[User] Sink or swim. So off we went to the Dominican Republic, right? We arrived there. I remember arriving there one dark night. This is, you know, in 1967. Way before the Dominican Republic became a tourist destination.

[Assistant] And you arrived at night, so you didn't get to see the country.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I left with probably the lowest score of anybody of my 100 colleagues, right, and went to the Dominican Republic.

[Assistant] It was sink or swim.

[User] Sink or swim. So off we went to the Dominican Republic, right? We arrived there. I remember arriving there one dark night. This is, you know, in 1967. Way before the Dominican Republic became a tourist destination.

[Assistant] And you arrived at night, so you didn't get to see the country.

[User] No, we arrived at night. Peace Corps insisted that we go down there before Christmas, which was really a surprise. We couldn't figure out why we had to be there before Christmas. Why didn't we have a chance to go home and share Christmas with our family before we went overseas? But they insisted that we get there before Christmas. Of course, anyone who works and knows Latin America knows that from the 15th of December to the 20th of January, Latin America shuts down. It's a holiday. It's the Christmas season, not just the Christmas. There's also the celebration of the Kings, the Three Kings. And so it was not the greatest time to get the Dominican Republic. So but we went. And so we were sent down around, you know, early December to the Dominican Republic.

[Assistant] Was it planned that way so you would have some transition time, and not schools?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they were barely ahead of their classes they were teaching. So the idea would be they would, number one, get a high school diploma over a course of two years. They would then be able to get a chance to be assigned to a school in a metropolitan area or a larger town that would improve their working conditions and also receive a salary increase. To do that, they had to come to the training centers every weekend, they gave up their weekends for two years.

[Assistant] So they were working.

[User] In service, in service training. Yeah, they had to give up their weekends and they had to give up their summers for two years. So those are real sacrifices for poor teachers who had families out in the countryside, had to travel back and forth. Then so we taught those in the capacitation centers as we called them. And then we taught all the courses, right? We taught language arts, history, geography, all the math courses, we taught all in Spanish.

[Assistant] And these people would have been in their twenties, maybe early 20s?

[User] Oh no, they were from the early twenties to late fifties. Most of them were much older than we were.

[Assistant] Most of them were older.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I really, in Spanish, you know, and my ability to acquire the accent in Spanish and to understand that, I always had good comprehension. And the acid test in language for me, Jay, I don't know how you feel about this, but is when you're able to converse easily over the telephone. Once you can do that, you've mastered the language because you have no visual clues, right?

[Assistant] Right, right.

[User] So I would say within eight to 10 months, I was pretty fluent in Spanish.

[Assistant] Great.

[User] Because I had to be, had to teach these courses.

[Assistant] Sure. And their level of English was what? Did they speak English at all?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I would say within eight to 10 months, I was pretty fluent in Spanish.

[Assistant] Great.

[User] Because I had to be, had to teach these courses.

[Assistant] Sure. And their level of English was what? Did they speak English at all?

[User] No. Very little. Because we're in the rural Dominican Republic and these are people who have a third or fourth, fifth grade education. Very few had a high school education. But they were a wonderful group of people. And so each of us in my center, there were three other, two other volunteers. Three other volunteers. Actually four or five of us at first, then it became three. So we each were assigned an average of 10 to 12 teachers that we were responsible for. So during the week when they were teaching, we would visit them on a circuit by motorcycle or horseback or walking, to observe their teaching methods in their schools. And we spent two or three nights with them. So I actually stayed with the teachers. You know, they fed me, they offered me housing, and I often slept in their houses or ate their food. They really opened up their homes and their hearts to us. We developed a really close working and personal relationships.

[Assistant] And you got to see more of the country at the same time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Because I had to be, had to teach these courses.

[Assistant] Sure. And their level of English was what? Did they speak English at all?

[User] No. Very little. Because we're in the rural Dominican Republic and these are people who have a third or fourth, fifth grade education. Very few had a high school education. But they were a wonderful group of people. And so each of us in my center, there were three other, two other volunteers. Three other volunteers. Actually four or five of us at first, then it became three. So we each were assigned an average of 10 to 12 teachers that we were responsible for. So during the week when they were teaching, we would visit them on a circuit by motorcycle or horseback or walking, to observe their teaching methods in their schools. And we spent two or three nights with them. So I actually stayed with the teachers. You know, they fed me, they offered me housing, and I often slept in their houses or ate their food. They really opened up their homes and their hearts to us. We developed a really close working and personal relationships.

[Assistant] And you got to see more of the country at the same time.

[User] Oh yeah. And all, you know, I mean, I walked I rode a horse, had my own horse. Here I am from the south side of Chicago, and I had to learn how to ride a horse and take care of a horse.

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that. So coming from Chicago and going to a place like Dominican Republic, now this was all new to you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No. Very little. Because we're in the rural Dominican Republic and these are people who have a third or fourth, fifth grade education. Very few had a high school education. But they were a wonderful group of people. And so each of us in my center, there were three other, two other volunteers. Three other volunteers. Actually four or five of us at first, then it became three. So we each were assigned an average of 10 to 12 teachers that we were responsible for. So during the week when they were teaching, we would visit them on a circuit by motorcycle or horseback or walking, to observe their teaching methods in their schools. And we spent two or three nights with them. So I actually stayed with the teachers. You know, they fed me, they offered me housing, and I often slept in their houses or ate their food. They really opened up their homes and their hearts to us. We developed a really close working and personal relationships.

[Assistant] And you got to see more of the country at the same time.

[User] Oh yeah. And all, you know, I mean, I walked I rode a horse, had my own horse. Here I am from the south side of Chicago, and I had to learn how to ride a horse and take care of a horse.

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that. So coming from Chicago and going to a place like Dominican Republic, now this was all new to you.

[User] Totally new, yeah. And I never spent any time except on a couple of trips to Mississippi in any rural areas.

[Assistant] Do you have any things that stand out in those first few days that you were there that really?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah. And all, you know, I mean, I walked I rode a horse, had my own horse. Here I am from the south side of Chicago, and I had to learn how to ride a horse and take care of a horse.

[Assistant] I was going to ask about that. So coming from Chicago and going to a place like Dominican Republic, now this was all new to you.

[User] Totally new, yeah. And I never spent any time except on a couple of trips to Mississippi in any rural areas.

[Assistant] Do you have any things that stand out in those first few days that you were there that really?

[User] Oh, sure. I mean, you know, like all Peace Corps volunteers, I had to find my own housing. I had to, you know, deal with getting a latrine built and learn how to use it properly.

[Assistant] So there wasn't much support from the Peace Corps.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Totally new, yeah. And I never spent any time except on a couple of trips to Mississippi in any rural areas.

[Assistant] Do you have any things that stand out in those first few days that you were there that really?

[User] Oh, sure. I mean, you know, like all Peace Corps volunteers, I had to find my own housing. I had to, you know, deal with getting a latrine built and learn how to use it properly.

[Assistant] So there wasn't much support from the Peace Corps.

[User] Well, Peace Corps, well, there was a shortage of housing in my town. So I was taken out to the town by my good friend over time and associate program director, Henry Reynolds. And he told me to talk to the other volunteers to find out how they had found housing and they would help me. So it worked out pretty much that way.

[Assistant] Yeah. So there were some other volunteers out there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, sure. I mean, you know, like all Peace Corps volunteers, I had to find my own housing. I had to, you know, deal with getting a latrine built and learn how to use it properly.

[Assistant] So there wasn't much support from the Peace Corps.

[User] Well, Peace Corps, well, there was a shortage of housing in my town. So I was taken out to the town by my good friend over time and associate program director, Henry Reynolds. And he told me to talk to the other volunteers to find out how they had found housing and they would help me. So it worked out pretty much that way.

[Assistant] Yeah. So there were some other volunteers out there.

[User] But housing was short in a town, in that size town.

[Assistant] What was your house like? You said you had to get a latrine built, so there was no indoor plumbing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But housing was short in a town, in that size town.

[Assistant] What was your house like? You said you had to get a latrine built, so there was no indoor plumbing?

[User] Well, first of all, I couldn't find my first house. I couldn't find a decent house. So what happened is that I negotiated a deal with a guy who had a deserted house where he was keeping goats. So I negotiated with him that he would remove the goats and I'd take over the house and I would put in the electrical wiring and the indoor plumbing so I'd have running water. But no toilet or like that, no toilet at all. I'd have a shower and running water in the sink.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And so I had to, first of all, clean that house thoroughly after goats had been living there for about a year. I had to share my latrine with a pig that lived right next to the latrine. And I had to learn how to wire a house.

[Assistant] Oh, so you did that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I had to, first of all, clean that house thoroughly after goats had been living there for about a year. I had to share my latrine with a pig that lived right next to the latrine. And I had to learn how to wire a house.

[Assistant] Oh, so you did that.

[User] And get, you know, get myself connected to the central grid, and, you know, I was busy. And of course, also help my Spanish because I had to learn.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] All of those different, all that different vocabulary to do all that, right? Negotiate with lots of people, carpenters and plumbers.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you were really roughing it there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And get, you know, get myself connected to the central grid, and, you know, I was busy. And of course, also help my Spanish because I had to learn.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] All of those different, all that different vocabulary to do all that, right? Negotiate with lots of people, carpenters and plumbers.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you were really roughing it there?

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And like you said, a big change.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All of those different, all that different vocabulary to do all that, right? Negotiate with lots of people, carpenters and plumbers.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you were really roughing it there?

[User] Oh yeah.

[Assistant] And like you said, a big change.

[User] Big change from Chicago. But also I had other volunteers who lived in the town, you know, wonderful people. Judy Thoms was terrific. Actually, Judy Johnson, Thoms is her married name. Victoria Thomas was there. She was very good. And so it was a, we had a good group of people who all worked together. Very collegial.

[Assistant] So how were you received by the folks in the local community there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Big change from Chicago. But also I had other volunteers who lived in the town, you know, wonderful people. Judy Thoms was terrific. Actually, Judy Johnson, Thoms is her married name. Victoria Thomas was there. She was very good. And so it was a, we had a good group of people who all worked together. Very collegial.

[Assistant] So how were you received by the folks in the local community there?

[User] It was wonderful. They were, you know, first of all, they were very tolerant of my rudimentary Spanish at first. They thought it was great that I was trying to speak Spanish and they knew how much I was trying. And the biggest thing of all is that children, the children support you and you can understand children, right? And so they're very patient with you when you learn a new language. So they were a big source of support.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I had a big entourage that followed me around to listen to me maneuver my way in their society.

[Assistant] I think you might have mentioned this, but tell me again, how big was this town that you lived in?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was wonderful. They were, you know, first of all, they were very tolerant of my rudimentary Spanish at first. They thought it was great that I was trying to speak Spanish and they knew how much I was trying. And the biggest thing of all is that children, the children support you and you can understand children, right? And so they're very patient with you when you learn a new language. So they were a big source of support.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And I had a big entourage that followed me around to listen to me maneuver my way in their society.

[Assistant] I think you might have mentioned this, but tell me again, how big was this town that you lived in?

[User] About two thousand people.

[Assistant] Two thousand people. Well, pretty small community.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I had a big entourage that followed me around to listen to me maneuver my way in their society.

[Assistant] I think you might have mentioned this, but tell me again, how big was this town that you lived in?

[User] About two thousand people.

[Assistant] Two thousand people. Well, pretty small community.

[User] Yeah. So, you know, it was a, you know, it was a very busy job. We had a lot to do. We had worked all year. In the summers, we brought them together and they lived in the town or the community, back and forth to their, traveled back and forth to their rural communities, right? And so it was a busy, busy time and these teachers were sacrificing and we knew they were sacrificing. So we were determined to do everything we could to offer the best possible, highest quality of instruction that we could we could provide. And we had great technical support from the Peace Corps in Santo Domingo.

[Assistant] And do you feel like you accomplished that? Did you have a high passing rate out of the school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About two thousand people.

[Assistant] Two thousand people. Well, pretty small community.

[User] Yeah. So, you know, it was a, you know, it was a very busy job. We had a lot to do. We had worked all year. In the summers, we brought them together and they lived in the town or the community, back and forth to their, traveled back and forth to their rural communities, right? And so it was a busy, busy time and these teachers were sacrificing and we knew they were sacrificing. So we were determined to do everything we could to offer the best possible, highest quality of instruction that we could we could provide. And we had great technical support from the Peace Corps in Santo Domingo.

[Assistant] And do you feel like you accomplished that? Did you have a high passing rate out of the school?

[User] We did. I think that as I look back and forth, I stayed in touch with some of these teachers over the years. I'd say that probably 70 percent of them went on to become established teachers or went to higher education, went to university or college. Changed professions. I can think of two or three outstanding cases of that, and they were grateful. Unfortunately, the government of the Dominican Republic reneged on their promise, and many of them did not receive their salary increases because of budgetary, national budgetary constraints, so that part of it was not fulfilled for many years until. It actually wasn't fulfilled finally until after our group had departed the Dominican Republic, but we didn't know that at the time.

[Assistant] Sure. Now were there other local staff at the school as well as the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We did. I think that as I look back and forth, I stayed in touch with some of these teachers over the years. I'd say that probably 70 percent of them went on to become established teachers or went to higher education, went to university or college. Changed professions. I can think of two or three outstanding cases of that, and they were grateful. Unfortunately, the government of the Dominican Republic reneged on their promise, and many of them did not receive their salary increases because of budgetary, national budgetary constraints, so that part of it was not fulfilled for many years until. It actually wasn't fulfilled finally until after our group had departed the Dominican Republic, but we didn't know that at the time.

[Assistant] Sure. Now were there other local staff at the school as well as the Peace Corps?

[User] Oh yeah, we also worked with Dominican counterparts, and they were crucial. As a matter of fact, I tried to recruit a certain young lady by the name of Rosa Mustafa to be our one of our teacher, we used to call them master teachers. She was a very experienced science teacher in the local high school, the regular normal high school in that city. And she refused to work with us. And eventually I married her.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So I was unhappy that she decided not to work with us, but I was very happy that she became my wife. We've been married for 50 years.

[Assistant] At least your recruitment was successful in some way.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yeah, we also worked with Dominican counterparts, and they were crucial. As a matter of fact, I tried to recruit a certain young lady by the name of Rosa Mustafa to be our one of our teacher, we used to call them master teachers. She was a very experienced science teacher in the local high school, the regular normal high school in that city. And she refused to work with us. And eventually I married her.

[Assistant] Oh.

[User] So I was unhappy that she decided not to work with us, but I was very happy that she became my wife. We've been married for 50 years.

[Assistant] At least your recruitment was successful in some way.

[User] That's right. But we had really marvelous Dominican counterparts who were our master teachers. They worked with us also. So the combination of American teachers, volunteer teachers, and Dominican teachers.

[Assistant] And then did you establish some good relationships with those folks there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right. But we had really marvelous Dominican counterparts who were our master teachers. They worked with us also. So the combination of American teachers, volunteer teachers, and Dominican teachers.

[Assistant] And then did you establish some good relationships with those folks there?

[User]
Oh, yeah, yeah. Very much so. It was a very warm, welcoming community. The Dominican society at that time was still suffering from the invasion, and there was a certain degree of anti-Americanism, but it was primarily in Santo Domingo. I didn't experience any of that per se in my town, nor did the other volunteers per se. But the invasion was in 1965, so it wasn't that far removed. Sometimes when you'd go to the capital and people heard you speaking English and knew you were an American, you know, they'd hassle you. There was still some lingering resentment. But overall, it was a very welcoming environment for the Americans, the Peace Corps volunteers.

Also Peace Corps volunteers were highly regarded in Dominican Republic because during the revolution in 1965, Peace Corps volunteers had actually helped and worked with the rebels because they felt that this was a justifiable revolution. And so their reputation was, they were highly regarded. They had a great reputation in the Dominican Republic. They were, Peace Corps volunteers were highly regarded.

[Assistant] Really.

[User] Nurses that helped wounded rebels. Some Peace Corps volunteers organized feeding centers in areas that were blockaded by the troops.

[Assistant] So Peace Corps wasn't pulled out during the revolution.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Oh, yeah, yeah. Very much so. It was a very warm, welcoming community. The Dominican society at that time was still suffering from the invasion, and there was a certain degree of anti-Americanism, but it was primarily in Santo Domingo. I didn't experience any of that per se in my town, nor did the other volunteers per se. But the invasion was in 1965, so it wasn't that far removed. Sometimes when you'd go to the capital and people heard you speaking English and knew you were an American, you know, they'd hassle you. There was still some lingering resentment. But overall, it was a very welcoming environment for the Americans, the Peace Corps volunteers.

Also Peace Corps volunteers were highly regarded in Dominican Republic because during the revolution in 1965, Peace Corps volunteers had actually helped and worked with the rebels because they felt that this was a justifiable revolution. And so their reputation was, they were highly regarded. They had a great reputation in the Dominican Republic. They were, Peace Corps volunteers were highly regarded.

[Assistant] Really.

[User] Nurses that helped wounded rebels. Some Peace Corps volunteers organized feeding centers in areas that were blockaded by the troops.

[Assistant] So Peace Corps wasn't pulled out during the revolution.

[User] They were. Some were, but some stayed.

[Assistant] Some stayed. They stayed on their own?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Nurses that helped wounded rebels. Some Peace Corps volunteers organized feeding centers in areas that were blockaded by the troops.

[Assistant] So Peace Corps wasn't pulled out during the revolution.

[User] They were. Some were, but some stayed.

[Assistant] Some stayed. They stayed on their own?

[User] Yeah, no. Not on their own, they stayed with Peace Corps staff.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Interesting.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, no. Not on their own, they stayed with Peace Corps staff.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. Interesting.

[User] But that was before I had arrived. So I benefited from that goodwill that was generated by the volunteers who had aligned themselves with the rebel cause.

[Assistant] And obviously.

[User] Much to the consternation of the U.S. government.

[Assistant] And obviously the local, your local counterparts respected your abilities and your efforts and were grateful for your efforts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But that was before I had arrived. So I benefited from that goodwill that was generated by the volunteers who had aligned themselves with the rebel cause.

[Assistant] And obviously.

[User] Much to the consternation of the U.S. government.

[Assistant] And obviously the local, your local counterparts respected your abilities and your efforts and were grateful for your efforts?

[User] Yeah, they were.

[Assistant] You felt like your job was meaningful?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so they selected four or five volunteers who were fluent in Spanish and had the technical expertise to come teach at the Catholic university. So I was one of the individuals that they asked to go and teach. And I was assigned to the faculty of education. And so in the faculty of education, I designed a student teaching course for the seniors at the university, which was very similar to the student teaching that I had experienced at Chicago Teachers College in the city of Chicago. So it was an incredible opportunity that only the Peace Corps could offer someone who had didn't have a lot of experience like in my case. But by that time, of course, I knew the Dominican school system very well, K through 12. I taught all the subjects and I knew a number of the officials in the Dominican Ministry of Education. And so Father Arroyo interviewed me and decided to give me a chance. And so Rosa and I moved to Santiago, which was also the region of the country where she had been born. It was her native area.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. So she was happy to go back.

[User] She was happy to go back.

[Assistant] I wonder now, how far into your volunteer term were you when you got married?

[User] The last year.

[Assistant] So it was in your second year there.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] She was happy to go back.

[Assistant] I wonder now, how far into your volunteer term were you when you got married?

[User] The last year.

[Assistant] So it was in your second year there.

[User] Second year, yeah.

[Assistant] Been in country for a year and a half or so.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] The last year.

[Assistant] So it was in your second year there.

[User] Second year, yeah.

[Assistant] Been in country for a year and a half or so.

[User] Two years, yeah.

[Assistant] So I think that your life changed or your situation changed, being married.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Second year, yeah.

[Assistant] Been in country for a year and a half or so.

[User] Two years, yeah.

[Assistant] So I think that your life changed or your situation changed, being married.

[User] Dramatically.

[Assistant] Being married to a local.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Two years, yeah.

[Assistant] So I think that your life changed or your situation changed, being married.

[User] Dramatically.

[Assistant] Being married to a local.

[User] That's right. Yeah.

[Assistant] Well, in what ways do you think it was different after being married?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Dramatically.

[Assistant] Being married to a local.

[User] That's right. Yeah.

[Assistant] Well, in what ways do you think it was different after being married?

[User] Well, I mean, it wasn't that different because we were both educators and we were starting out a new experience at the Catholic university, right? So I think that she was in school and also teaching in a high school in Santiago. I was at the university. It was an exciting time. We were, of course, surrounded by young faculty just like ourselves, many of them recently married. We made great friendships that lasted our lifetime. The university was a special place because the idea was to create a modern American style university in the Dominican Republic. In those days in Latin America, many of the teachers or professors were part-time because you really couldn't earn a decent living as a full-time university professor. So the idea was to create a cohort of well-paid, highly educated, highly trained university professors that would provide, that would create the faculty for the Catholic university. And to this day, the Catholic university in the Dominican Republic, the University Madre y Maestra, mother and teacher, is one of the finest universities in the country, if not in all of Latin America.

[Assistant] What's the name of the university?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right. Yeah.

[Assistant] Well, in what ways do you think it was different after being married?

[User] Well, I mean, it wasn't that different because we were both educators and we were starting out a new experience at the Catholic university, right? So I think that she was in school and also teaching in a high school in Santiago. I was at the university. It was an exciting time. We were, of course, surrounded by young faculty just like ourselves, many of them recently married. We made great friendships that lasted our lifetime. The university was a special place because the idea was to create a modern American style university in the Dominican Republic. In those days in Latin America, many of the teachers or professors were part-time because you really couldn't earn a decent living as a full-time university professor. So the idea was to create a cohort of well-paid, highly educated, highly trained university professors that would provide, that would create the faculty for the Catholic university. And to this day, the Catholic university in the Dominican Republic, the University Madre y Maestra, mother and teacher, is one of the finest universities in the country, if not in all of Latin America.

[Assistant] What's the name of the university?

[User] UCMM, UCMM. The Catholic University Mother and Teacher [Pontificia Universidad Católica Madre y Maestra]. It was a very successful program, one USAID, one of the U.S. government and USAID. Real success stories. And many of the leaders in government and business, politics and NGOs, people who are trained at that university. And so I was there at the time when the future leadership of the Dominican Republic was launching their careers. It was a wonderful time.

[Assistant] So in your initial assignment, you were working with people who had low level of education and kind of bringing up the minimum standard. Then when you move to Santiago, you were working with.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I mean, it wasn't that different because we were both educators and we were starting out a new experience at the Catholic university, right? So I think that she was in school and also teaching in a high school in Santiago. I was at the university. It was an exciting time. We were, of course, surrounded by young faculty just like ourselves, many of them recently married. We made great friendships that lasted our lifetime. The university was a special place because the idea was to create a modern American style university in the Dominican Republic. In those days in Latin America, many of the teachers or professors were part-time because you really couldn't earn a decent living as a full-time university professor. So the idea was to create a cohort of well-paid, highly educated, highly trained university professors that would provide, that would create the faculty for the Catholic university. And to this day, the Catholic university in the Dominican Republic, the University Madre y Maestra, mother and teacher, is one of the finest universities in the country, if not in all of Latin America.

[Assistant] What's the name of the university?

[User] UCMM, UCMM. The Catholic University Mother and Teacher [Pontificia Universidad Católica Madre y Maestra]. It was a very successful program, one USAID, one of the U.S. government and USAID. Real success stories. And many of the leaders in government and business, politics and NGOs, people who are trained at that university. And so I was there at the time when the future leadership of the Dominican Republic was launching their careers. It was a wonderful time.

[Assistant] So in your initial assignment, you were working with people who had low level of education and kind of bringing up the minimum standard. Then when you move to Santiago, you were working with.

[User] Some of the elites of the country.

[Assistant] And university graduates who were well educated.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] UCMM, UCMM. The Catholic University Mother and Teacher [Pontificia Universidad Católica Madre y Maestra]. It was a very successful program, one USAID, one of the U.S. government and USAID. Real success stories. And many of the leaders in government and business, politics and NGOs, people who are trained at that university. And so I was there at the time when the future leadership of the Dominican Republic was launching their careers. It was a wonderful time.

[Assistant] So in your initial assignment, you were working with people who had low level of education and kind of bringing up the minimum standard. Then when you move to Santiago, you were working with.

[User] Some of the elites of the country.

[Assistant] And university graduates who were well educated.

[User] And working for one of the most dynamic educators and leaders in Father Arroyo, who was a Spanish priest, a Spanish Jesuit priest, who was a great visionary and had put together a really outstanding program with support of St. Louis University and USAID funding. So it was a wonderful turn of events which really gave me a tremendous chance to grow in my career. And I started thinking about my life after the Peace Corps and what would I do after the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So you got to do some really big things there that if you were teaching at a high school in Chicago, you wouldn't have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Some of the elites of the country.

[Assistant] And university graduates who were well educated.

[User] And working for one of the most dynamic educators and leaders in Father Arroyo, who was a Spanish priest, a Spanish Jesuit priest, who was a great visionary and had put together a really outstanding program with support of St. Louis University and USAID funding. So it was a wonderful turn of events which really gave me a tremendous chance to grow in my career. And I started thinking about my life after the Peace Corps and what would I do after the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So you got to do some really big things there that if you were teaching at a high school in Chicago, you wouldn't have.

[User] Never would have had a chance to do. Create my own course, you know. The university, the Catholic university, sent me to the United States to do some basic research on how did I want to design and implement a student teaching program, which was the first of its kind in the Dominican Republic. And then I had to sign up local high schools who would provide places for our graduates or our soon to be graduates to practice their teaching. We had to put together supervisory protocols. It was a design the whole program from A to Z with my Dominican counterparts.

[Assistant] It sounds like it would have been a very busy time for you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And working for one of the most dynamic educators and leaders in Father Arroyo, who was a Spanish priest, a Spanish Jesuit priest, who was a great visionary and had put together a really outstanding program with support of St. Louis University and USAID funding. So it was a wonderful turn of events which really gave me a tremendous chance to grow in my career. And I started thinking about my life after the Peace Corps and what would I do after the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] So you got to do some really big things there that if you were teaching at a high school in Chicago, you wouldn't have.

[User] Never would have had a chance to do. Create my own course, you know. The university, the Catholic university, sent me to the United States to do some basic research on how did I want to design and implement a student teaching program, which was the first of its kind in the Dominican Republic. And then I had to sign up local high schools who would provide places for our graduates or our soon to be graduates to practice their teaching. We had to put together supervisory protocols. It was a design the whole program from A to Z with my Dominican counterparts.

[Assistant] It sounds like it would have been a very busy time for you.

[User] Very busy time.

[Assistant] A lot of hard work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Never would have had a chance to do. Create my own course, you know. The university, the Catholic university, sent me to the United States to do some basic research on how did I want to design and implement a student teaching program, which was the first of its kind in the Dominican Republic. And then I had to sign up local high schools who would provide places for our graduates or our soon to be graduates to practice their teaching. We had to put together supervisory protocols. It was a design the whole program from A to Z with my Dominican counterparts.

[Assistant] It sounds like it would have been a very busy time for you.

[User] Very busy time.

[Assistant] A lot of hard work.

[User] A lot of hard work, yeah.

[Assistant] So what do you feel like are your main accomplishments, your biggest accomplishments that you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I don't. There's no chance that I probably would have entered into the international arena because I didn't have a a channel to enter into that arena. There was no door, no window. Joining the Peace Corps was the most important decision I've ever made in my life. Everything that I've done in terms of a profession and my personal life, all of that emanated from the decision I made to join the Peace Corps in 1967.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] It changed everything. I became a person who was steeped in foreign affairs. I learned to speak another language. I met my wife, partner of 50 years. We've raised our children, who are also bilingual, in that environment subsequently. It opened, expanded my mind to look at the world from a totally different angle. I ended up going into business because I now had a different perspective and a different view of the world. I never would have gotten an MBA if I'd gone into teaching high school in Chicago. I probably would have gotten a graduate degree in education and probably become a high school principal, which would have been a perfectly respectable and good thing to do, but it wouldn't have led to the life that I've had.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Without a doubt. So that decision to join the Peace Corps was transformative in my life, without a doubt.

[Assistant] OK, very much so. You didn't extend for a full year. You were there for about six months extra?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It changed everything. I became a person who was steeped in foreign affairs. I learned to speak another language. I met my wife, partner of 50 years. We've raised our children, who are also bilingual, in that environment subsequently. It opened, expanded my mind to look at the world from a totally different angle. I ended up going into business because I now had a different perspective and a different view of the world. I never would have gotten an MBA if I'd gone into teaching high school in Chicago. I probably would have gotten a graduate degree in education and probably become a high school principal, which would have been a perfectly respectable and good thing to do, but it wouldn't have led to the life that I've had.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] Without a doubt. So that decision to join the Peace Corps was transformative in my life, without a doubt.

[Assistant] OK, very much so. You didn't extend for a full year. You were there for about six months extra?

[User] No, it was a full year, a full academic year.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And then it was time to leave. Did you consider extending longer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Without a doubt. So that decision to join the Peace Corps was transformative in my life, without a doubt.

[Assistant] OK, very much so. You didn't extend for a full year. You were there for about six months extra?

[User] No, it was a full year, a full academic year.

[Assistant] Oh, OK. And then it was time to leave. Did you consider extending longer?

[User] I did. The university offered me a full-time position at the university, right? And I thought about doing that. But I also recognized at that point that I needed to go back and get my graduate degree, even if I was going to return and teach at the university. So that was important. By that time, I decided I was going to get a degree in business because I thought, I wasn't certain if I was going to have a career in government or in business, but I thought an MBA would be practical way to be able to engage in a productive way in either career, in government or in business. So I decided to get an MBA, which was certainly not on my radar in my earlier years.

[Assistant] And when you left Dominican Republic, did you return to Chicago?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So they asked me where I wanted to work in Peace Corps recruitment. I said, well, I think I want to return to my hometown and work in the Chicago regional office, which covered most of the Midwest.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] So I went to work as a recruiter in the Chicago regional office, and I was part of the new group that just formed under a guy by the name of Leonard Robinson, that was focused on minority recruitment because Peace Corps wanted to increase our diversity in Peace Corps in the time. This was now 1970.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I joined Leonard Robinson's group of minority recruiters, and we were based in in regional offices around the country, in San Francisco, in New York, in Minneapolis, in Chicago. And so my territory was the entire Midwest. So I traveled to most of the major universities and colleges in the Midwest over the course of the year, recruiting for the Peace Corps, which was a terrific job. You get to tell people who are interested in the Peace Corps all about your experience in Peace Corps and encourage other like-minded people to join the Peace Corps. It was a wonderful, wonderful transition.

[Assistant] And how long did you do that for?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I went to work as a recruiter in the Chicago regional office, and I was part of the new group that just formed under a guy by the name of Leonard Robinson, that was focused on minority recruitment because Peace Corps wanted to increase our diversity in Peace Corps in the time. This was now 1970.

[Assistant] Yeah.

[User] And so I joined Leonard Robinson's group of minority recruiters, and we were based in in regional offices around the country, in San Francisco, in New York, in Minneapolis, in Chicago. And so my territory was the entire Midwest. So I traveled to most of the major universities and colleges in the Midwest over the course of the year, recruiting for the Peace Corps, which was a terrific job. You get to tell people who are interested in the Peace Corps all about your experience in Peace Corps and encourage other like-minded people to join the Peace Corps. It was a wonderful, wonderful transition.

[Assistant] And how long did you do that for?

[User] For one year. And of course, it also introduced my wife to my hometown of Chicago.

[Assistant] OK, so now you've completed your Peace Corps service and worked as a recruiter for a couple of years. And as you noted, this decision to join the Peace Corps kind of shaped the rest of your career. I know that you've been involved in international work ever since then with USAID and RTI. And then in 2009, you became the director of the entire Peace Corps. Is that correct? And how did that come about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And so I joined Leonard Robinson's group of minority recruiters, and we were based in in regional offices around the country, in San Francisco, in New York, in Minneapolis, in Chicago. And so my territory was the entire Midwest. So I traveled to most of the major universities and colleges in the Midwest over the course of the year, recruiting for the Peace Corps, which was a terrific job. You get to tell people who are interested in the Peace Corps all about your experience in Peace Corps and encourage other like-minded people to join the Peace Corps. It was a wonderful, wonderful transition.

[Assistant] And how long did you do that for?

[User] For one year. And of course, it also introduced my wife to my hometown of Chicago.

[Assistant] OK, so now you've completed your Peace Corps service and worked as a recruiter for a couple of years. And as you noted, this decision to join the Peace Corps kind of shaped the rest of your career. I know that you've been involved in international work ever since then with USAID and RTI. And then in 2009, you became the director of the entire Peace Corps. Is that correct? And how did that come about?

[User] Well, it's an amazing, amazing opportunity, and I will be forever grateful to President Barack Obama and his foreign policy team for giving me the opportunity to serve as Peace Corps director in his administration. So after I entered graduate school and got an MBA, I went into business. I worked for a couple of large Fortune 500 companies, the last one being General Mills. I was a marketing manager at General Mills. We lived in Minneapolis. But because of my Peace Corps service, I always had heard the siren song of being in international affairs, foreign affairs.

[Assistant] Pulling you back in.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it's an amazing, amazing opportunity, and I will be forever grateful to President Barack Obama and his foreign policy team for giving me the opportunity to serve as Peace Corps director in his administration. So after I entered graduate school and got an MBA, I went into business. I worked for a couple of large Fortune 500 companies, the last one being General Mills. I was a marketing manager at General Mills. We lived in Minneapolis. But because of my Peace Corps service, I always had heard the siren song of being in international affairs, foreign affairs.

[Assistant] Pulling you back in.

[User] Pulling me back in. And I also wanted to use my Spanish language skills. So I got a call from my former boss and good friend Henry Reynolds, who was at that time working for USAID in Honduras. And he asked me. This was now 1977. And he asked me, 1976, if I would be willing to consider coming to work for AID on a short term consultancy to help them design an agribusiness project in Honduras, the country that I was supposed to serve in in the first place. Now let me just add an aside on Honduras.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] I actually had traveled to Honduras while I was a Peace Corps volunteer on vacation because my roommate, Dennis Kroger, had actually been assigned to Honduras, and so we agreed to meet there a year into our service.

[Assistant] OK, your roommate from training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, not really, because I was focused on USAID and PEPFAR, the international AIDS prevention and treatment program. That was my purview, AID, PEPFAR, OPIC, the Ex-Im Bank and, I'm missing one other agency, um, and the MCC, the Millennium Challenge Corporation. That was the purview of our team.

[Assistant] Mm hmm.

[User] So I really didn't lobby for the job, but something really marvelous happened because after a number of people in the Peace Corps community heard that my name was being proposed, there was a groundswell of support. A couple of people who I didn't even know put together a petition, and they wrote to the White House and endorsed me from the Peace Corps community.

[Assistant] Great.

[User] As Director. So that was a wonderful, wonderful response from my Peace Corps colleagues.

[Assistant] And you were happy to accept the invitation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So I really didn't lobby for the job, but something really marvelous happened because after a number of people in the Peace Corps community heard that my name was being proposed, there was a groundswell of support. A couple of people who I didn't even know put together a petition, and they wrote to the White House and endorsed me from the Peace Corps community.

[Assistant] Great.

[User] As Director. So that was a wonderful, wonderful response from my Peace Corps colleagues.

[Assistant] And you were happy to accept the invitation.

[User]
Well, this was a dream come true. Someone who was a volunteer to have the opportunity to return and serve in the Peace Corps. You know this, this agency, which is an iconic American agency, which had transformed my life and transformed the lives of over 250,000 people over the last 50 years. It was a wonderful opportunity. So despite the fact that I promised my wife I was not going to go back into government, the Peace Corps was a job that she and I both agreed was something that was absolutely essential. Plus, I had the great honor and privilege of serving President Barack Obama. **

That's how I ended up directing the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, and that's quite a different experience from being a volunteer and with its own challenges.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Well, this was a dream come true. Someone who was a volunteer to have the opportunity to return and serve in the Peace Corps. You know this, this agency, which is an iconic American agency, which had transformed my life and transformed the lives of over 250,000 people over the last 50 years. It was a wonderful opportunity. So despite the fact that I promised my wife I was not going to go back into government, the Peace Corps was a job that she and I both agreed was something that was absolutely essential. Plus, I had the great honor and privilege of serving President Barack Obama. **

That's how I ended up directing the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] Yeah, and that's quite a different experience from being a volunteer and with its own challenges.

[User] Oh, it's a different perspective, right?

[Assistant] Different perspectives.

[User] But one of the things that I learned and I saw, and one of the great things about being director of the Peace Corps, is that a chance to once again engage with these marvelous young people who were dedicating their lives to the people in the communities and the organizations they worked with in the developing world, right? And you know that Peace Corps spark is still there in Africa, Asia, Latin America, Eastern Europe, Pacific. Wherever you go and travel, you see volunteers and you can quickly connect with your own experience and see it in their eyes and through their own experiences. It's pretty amazing.

[Assistant] As the Peace Corps director, where were most of your efforts focused? Was it necessary to keep selling the idea of Peace Corps to the politicians?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So this is a chance to reconnect the American people with the Peace Corps and also to give the returned Peace Corps volunteer community and volunteers around the world a chance to celebrate this wonderful organization, which had contributed so much to their individual lives. And to give the host countries and the universities that have been involved in supporting and strengthening and engaging in partnership with the Peace Corps as a chance to celebrate. So it was a marvelous opportunity. So I was very fortunate to be the director of the Peace Corps during the 50th anniversary.

[Assistant] Oh yeah.

[User] The other thing about the Peace Corps, which I think is not quite fully appreciated, is that as best as I can determine, the Peace Corps is the first, was the first, it might be the only, Federal agency that created a framework whereby women were always given equal status. Something that Shriver insisted on. And when he created the Peace Corps, not many people in Congress wanted American women to travel overseas to foreign countries and serve as volunteers in isolated villages. It was not something that was readily apparent or acceptable. Shriver insisted that women have equal opportunity in the Peace Corps. And because of that, from the very beginning, women were involved as volunteers and staff and continued to this day, continue to be the majority number of volunteers are women, 60 percent of them. You know, my staff, I think something like 40 percent of my senior staff were women. Overseas our country directors, a large percentage are women, and it continues to be the case today. That's because this visionary man, Sargent Shriver, insisted upon that from day one. I don't think any other Federal agency has ever had that in place.

[Assistant] I'm sure. I've never heard that story before.

[User] It's something that people have not focused on, but was readily apparent to me when I became director. So it's a great tradition. And so I was really happy, pleased, and I got to work with, you know, a wonderful group of people at the cabinet level and subcabinet level in the Obama administration. It was a wonderful time to be director of the Peace Corps.

[Assistant] And you were the director all under one administration?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Well, I'm happy that I was able to serve as director of the Peace Corps because also I was able to build a tremendous team in the Peace Corps. People who were really already accomplished in their careers and served at the highest levels of the Peace Corps. We really worked on diversity and an increasing number of women who served in the Peace Corps. It was important to me to look for ways to do that, and we did that in many, many ways. As I said, one of the things that's often overlooked in Peace Corps is that Sargent Shriver set the standard for making sure that women had an equal opportunity to serve in the Peace Corps from day one. And we wanted to continue that trend, and we did. And I'm also proud of what we able to accomplish in celebrating the 50th anniversary of the. We tried to come up with ways to modernize the Peace Corps.

We were able to secure the highest level of funding for the Peace Corps in several years. And we really built a strong, bipartisan coalition with the U.S. Congress in support of the Peace Corps and that I will always be grateful for. The other thing is that we had tremendous support and engagement from the RPCVs who were serving in the Congress at the time I was director, led by people like Sam Farr, John Garamendi of California, Farr of California, Mike Honda of California, Tom Petri of Wisconsin and of course, the tremendous support of Senator Chris Dodd, who I had the honor of serving with in the Dominican Republic as a Peace Corps volunteer.

[Assistant] Huh.

[User] So and who also chaired my confirmation hearing in the Senate. So it was a wonderful time to be director of the Peace Corps, and I'll always be grateful for having the opportunity.

[Assistant] All right, Aaron, thanks for the very good interview, and thanks for all your years of service.

[User] Thank you, Jay, and thank you for arranging to have this interview and I've enjoyed talking to you.

[Assistant] This is Jay Sztuk again. We're continuing the interview with Aaron Williams. Aaron's remembered something very important that needs to get on the record. So carry on.