[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Education has helped them to change their daily lives, for instance they used to keep lots of livestock, but nowadays due to limited grazing land, most Maasai have reduced their livestock.

Education also has helped people to change mind wise, for instance nowadays many Maasai people do take their children to schools.

In the past most Maasai men used to take their livestock to 'lonjo' but nowadays most of them have changed their minds and they have started going to school and performing other activities.

Education helps the Maasai to read letters.

Education has helped the Maasai to resolve and overcome the occurring conflicts and challenges in livestock keeping.

[Assistant] What is your perception towards the educated Maasai people?

[User]
We always witness good living styles and development to the educated Maasai people.

There is no any bad thing for the educated Maasai people.

The educated Maasai people do abandon some Maasai traditions and customs, they do not follow them accordingly, and this is a disadvantage of taking Maasai children to school.

[Assistant] IG What is the importance of knowledge and understanding acquired from schools by the Maasai people?

[User]
Most of things have changed due to acquired knowledge and understanding from schools by our fellow Maasai.

The importance of taking Maasai kids to schools is that when they have graduated from their schools, they just build modern houses for their fathers and mothers, they also increase resources to their families, and they also persuade the whole surrounding community to take their children to schools. For that case, the Maasai who have a lot of livestock, they will have to sell some of them and take their children to schools after realizing the importance of taking children to school.

[Assistant] Do you experience the difference in diet between the educated and uneducated Maasai people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
We always witness good living styles and development to the educated Maasai people.

There is no any bad thing for the educated Maasai people.

The educated Maasai people do abandon some Maasai traditions and customs, they do not follow them accordingly, and this is a disadvantage of taking Maasai children to school.

[Assistant] IG What is the importance of knowledge and understanding acquired from schools by the Maasai people?

[User]
Most of things have changed due to acquired knowledge and understanding from schools by our fellow Maasai.

The importance of taking Maasai kids to schools is that when they have graduated from their schools, they just build modern houses for their fathers and mothers, they also increase resources to their families, and they also persuade the whole surrounding community to take their children to schools. For that case, the Maasai who have a lot of livestock, they will have to sell some of them and take their children to schools after realizing the importance of taking children to school.

[Assistant] Do you experience the difference in diet between the educated and uneducated Maasai people?

[User] Yes, there is a difference, the educated people tend to change their diet after leaving schools and colleges, and they eat good food stuffs such as chips which are in most cases not eaten by normal people. They also prefer to attend their meals in town centers which are in the neighborhood.

[Assistant] Which type of foods do they eat which are not cooked at their homes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Most of things have changed due to acquired knowledge and understanding from schools by our fellow Maasai.

The importance of taking Maasai kids to schools is that when they have graduated from their schools, they just build modern houses for their fathers and mothers, they also increase resources to their families, and they also persuade the whole surrounding community to take their children to schools. For that case, the Maasai who have a lot of livestock, they will have to sell some of them and take their children to schools after realizing the importance of taking children to school.

[Assistant] Do you experience the difference in diet between the educated and uneducated Maasai people?

[User] Yes, there is a difference, the educated people tend to change their diet after leaving schools and colleges, and they eat good food stuffs such as chips which are in most cases not eaten by normal people. They also prefer to attend their meals in town centers which are in the neighborhood.

[Assistant] Which type of foods do they eat which are not cooked at their homes?

[User] In the past period the Maasai Morans were not allowed to eat meat which was seen by women at their homes, but when they go to school and come back to homes, they do eat meat at their homes regardless of that meat being seen by women, they claim that there is no any bad thing or disadvantage which happens when they eat meat which has been seen by women.

[Assistant] Where do they get chips to eat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, there is a difference, the educated people tend to change their diet after leaving schools and colleges, and they eat good food stuffs such as chips which are in most cases not eaten by normal people. They also prefer to attend their meals in town centers which are in the neighborhood.

[Assistant] Which type of foods do they eat which are not cooked at their homes?

[User] In the past period the Maasai Morans were not allowed to eat meat which was seen by women at their homes, but when they go to school and come back to homes, they do eat meat at their homes regardless of that meat being seen by women, they claim that there is no any bad thing or disadvantage which happens when they eat meat which has been seen by women.

[Assistant] Where do they get chips to eat?

[User] Most of them do find them and eat them from the town centers

[Assistant] Why men did not like to eat meat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In the past period the Maasai Morans were not allowed to eat meat which was seen by women at their homes, but when they go to school and come back to homes, they do eat meat at their homes regardless of that meat being seen by women, they claim that there is no any bad thing or disadvantage which happens when they eat meat which has been seen by women.

[Assistant] Where do they get chips to eat?

[User] Most of them do find them and eat them from the town centers

[Assistant] Why men did not like to eat meat?

[User] They were not allowed to eat meat which was seen by women, for instance if a cow dies in the presence of women, they will not eat that cow.

[Assistant] What happens when they eat meat which women have seen?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Most of them do find them and eat them from the town centers

[Assistant] Why men did not like to eat meat?

[User] They were not allowed to eat meat which was seen by women, for instance if a cow dies in the presence of women, they will not eat that cow.

[Assistant] What happens when they eat meat which women have seen?

[User] This is a tradition.

[Assistant] What is your opinion about this situation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They were not allowed to eat meat which was seen by women, for instance if a cow dies in the presence of women, they will not eat that cow.

[Assistant] What happens when they eat meat which women have seen?

[User] This is a tradition.

[Assistant] What is your opinion about this situation?

[User] We are very happy that there are changes and improvements.

[Assistant] For the case of Zigua people, how is the situation of education and diet changes in your society?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] This is a tradition.

[Assistant] What is your opinion about this situation?

[User] We are very happy that there are changes and improvements.

[Assistant] For the case of Zigua people, how is the situation of education and diet changes in your society?

[User]
In the past years, the Zigua people did not take their children to school but nowadays when Zigua children are taken to school, most families do benefit from taking children to schools, for instance when children do leave and graduate from their studies, they help their parents, they build modern houses for them, they help their young sisters and brothers to take them to schools.

There is change in diet, for instance you will have to give pocket money to your kids so as to buy tea and cassava for breakfast, then stiff porridge for lunch, etc.

[Assistant] Ok how are changes in women responsibilities after getting education?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We are very happy that there are changes and improvements.

[Assistant] For the case of Zigua people, how is the situation of education and diet changes in your society?

[User]
In the past years, the Zigua people did not take their children to school but nowadays when Zigua children are taken to school, most families do benefit from taking children to schools, for instance when children do leave and graduate from their studies, they help their parents, they build modern houses for them, they help their young sisters and brothers to take them to schools.

There is change in diet, for instance you will have to give pocket money to your kids so as to buy tea and cassava for breakfast, then stiff porridge for lunch, etc.

[Assistant] Ok how are changes in women responsibilities after getting education?

[User]
We have good progress, and everybody is satisfied, every person has his/her own farming process. Both women and men do get engaged in crop farming.

Due to changes nowadays, we have decided to look for other sources of income, for instance we have learned how to till the land and practice crop farming unlike it was in the past when we dealt with livestock keeping only.

[Assistant] How has crop farming helped availability of diet nowadays?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
In the past years, the Zigua people did not take their children to school but nowadays when Zigua children are taken to school, most families do benefit from taking children to schools, for instance when children do leave and graduate from their studies, they help their parents, they build modern houses for them, they help their young sisters and brothers to take them to schools.

There is change in diet, for instance you will have to give pocket money to your kids so as to buy tea and cassava for breakfast, then stiff porridge for lunch, etc.

[Assistant] Ok how are changes in women responsibilities after getting education?

[User]
We have good progress, and everybody is satisfied, every person has his/her own farming process. Both women and men do get engaged in crop farming.

Due to changes nowadays, we have decided to look for other sources of income, for instance we have learned how to till the land and practice crop farming unlike it was in the past when we dealt with livestock keeping only.

[Assistant] How has crop farming helped availability of diet nowadays?

[User] Crop farming has helped us much because it enables us to change some living styles and diet in general.

[Assistant] Which crops do you grow?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
We have good progress, and everybody is satisfied, every person has his/her own farming process. Both women and men do get engaged in crop farming.

Due to changes nowadays, we have decided to look for other sources of income, for instance we have learned how to till the land and practice crop farming unlike it was in the past when we dealt with livestock keeping only.

[Assistant] How has crop farming helped availability of diet nowadays?

[User] Crop farming has helped us much because it enables us to change some living styles and diet in general.

[Assistant] Which crops do you grow?

[User]
We grow maize, green grams,

Beans

Pigeon peas.

[Assistant] How is change in life system? The Maasai practiced transhumance system in the past, how is the current situation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Crop farming has helped us much because it enables us to change some living styles and diet in general.

[Assistant] Which crops do you grow?

[User]
We grow maize, green grams,

Beans

Pigeon peas.

[Assistant] How is change in life system? The Maasai practiced transhumance system in the past, how is the current situation?

[User]
For the current time, the Maasai do not shift their settlements as it was in the past. Most Maasai have permanent settlements.

Nowadays there is no longer transhumance among the Maasai society, instead they have permanent settlements, only livestock do shift depending on weather changes, for instance during summer season, livestock are shifted to the far place where there is enough pasture and water, but women and children do remain at homes.

[Assistant] How is diet system for the women and children who remain at homes when cows have been shifted to far places?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
We grow maize, green grams,

Beans

Pigeon peas.

[Assistant] How is change in life system? The Maasai practiced transhumance system in the past, how is the current situation?

[User]
For the current time, the Maasai do not shift their settlements as it was in the past. Most Maasai have permanent settlements.

Nowadays there is no longer transhumance among the Maasai society, instead they have permanent settlements, only livestock do shift depending on weather changes, for instance during summer season, livestock are shifted to the far place where there is enough pasture and water, but women and children do remain at homes.

[Assistant] How is diet system for the women and children who remain at homes when cows have been shifted to far places?

[User] We just eat the normal food including all kinds of vegetables, meat.

[Assistant] How do you see this situation when cows have been shifted to other places?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
For the current time, the Maasai do not shift their settlements as it was in the past. Most Maasai have permanent settlements.

Nowadays there is no longer transhumance among the Maasai society, instead they have permanent settlements, only livestock do shift depending on weather changes, for instance during summer season, livestock are shifted to the far place where there is enough pasture and water, but women and children do remain at homes.

[Assistant] How is diet system for the women and children who remain at homes when cows have been shifted to far places?

[User] We just eat the normal food including all kinds of vegetables, meat.

[Assistant] How do you see this situation when cows have been shifted to other places?

[User] The situation becomes very calm because there is no longer fighting for grazing lands and pasture.

[Assistant] Who is more affected by the shifting of cows to far places?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We just eat the normal food including all kinds of vegetables, meat.

[Assistant] How do you see this situation when cows have been shifted to other places?

[User] The situation becomes very calm because there is no longer fighting for grazing lands and pasture.

[Assistant] Who is more affected by the shifting of cows to far places?

[User] The most affected group is women because they lack milk to feed their children.

[Assistant] What are changes in diet caused by price fluctuations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The situation becomes very calm because there is no longer fighting for grazing lands and pasture.

[Assistant] Who is more affected by the shifting of cows to far places?

[User] The most affected group is women because they lack milk to feed their children.

[Assistant] What are changes in diet caused by price fluctuations?

[User]
Nowadays there is price increase almost for every item.

In the past years, most food items cost low prices but nowadays there is tremendous increase in price for most food items.

[Assistant] How is food availability nowadays?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The most affected group is women because they lack milk to feed their children.

[Assistant] What are changes in diet caused by price fluctuations?

[User]
Nowadays there is price increase almost for every item.

In the past years, most food items cost low prices but nowadays there is tremendous increase in price for most food items.

[Assistant] How is food availability nowadays?

[User] Every person has increased prices so as to get much benefit.

[Assistant] Which foods when eaten by someone, people consider him/her to be poor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Nowadays there is price increase almost for every item.

In the past years, most food items cost low prices but nowadays there is tremendous increase in price for most food items.

[Assistant] How is food availability nowadays?

[User] Every person has increased prices so as to get much benefit.

[Assistant] Which foods when eaten by someone, people consider him/her to be poor?

[User]
When someone eats foods, which are not fried such as meat which is not fried.

When you eat porridge, stiff porridge

When someone eats stiff porridge left overs 'usiga' or 'togwa'

'Togwa' is a left over from stiff porridge which is left after dinner and mixed with water and stirred up and eaten in the next morning.

[Assistant] Which relish, or vegetables are eaten by poor people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Every person has increased prices so as to get much benefit.

[Assistant] Which foods when eaten by someone, people consider him/her to be poor?

[User]
When someone eats foods, which are not fried such as meat which is not fried.

When you eat porridge, stiff porridge

When someone eats stiff porridge left overs 'usiga' or 'togwa'

'Togwa' is a left over from stiff porridge which is left after dinner and mixed with water and stirred up and eaten in the next morning.

[Assistant] Which relish, or vegetables are eaten by poor people?

[User]
tomato sauce.

'Kungu juu' among the zigua people

'Safele uwala'

'kungu juu' is cooked with tomato, onions, salt, etc.

'safele uwala' is cooked by boiling it with water.

' wild jute leaves' this is cut into small pieces, dried and pounded, so when you decide to cook it you stir it in water and boil it, it looks like porridge.

Vegetables such as amaranth leaves, hares lettuce etc.

[Assistant] What effects do you experience in your diet when the above food items are missing?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
When someone eats foods, which are not fried such as meat which is not fried.

When you eat porridge, stiff porridge

When someone eats stiff porridge left overs 'usiga' or 'togwa'

'Togwa' is a left over from stiff porridge which is left after dinner and mixed with water and stirred up and eaten in the next morning.

[Assistant] Which relish, or vegetables are eaten by poor people?

[User]
tomato sauce.

'Kungu juu' among the zigua people

'Safele uwala'

'kungu juu' is cooked with tomato, onions, salt, etc.

'safele uwala' is cooked by boiling it with water.

' wild jute leaves' this is cut into small pieces, dried and pounded, so when you decide to cook it you stir it in water and boil it, it looks like porridge.

Vegetables such as amaranth leaves, hares lettuce etc.

[Assistant] What effects do you experience in your diet when the above food items are missing?

[User] We have no any bad effects due to the missing of the above food items.

[Assistant] How does this type of diet affect your tribes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
tomato sauce.

'Kungu juu' among the zigua people

'Safele uwala'

'kungu juu' is cooked with tomato, onions, salt, etc.

'safele uwala' is cooked by boiling it with water.

' wild jute leaves' this is cut into small pieces, dried and pounded, so when you decide to cook it you stir it in water and boil it, it looks like porridge.

Vegetables such as amaranth leaves, hares lettuce etc.

[Assistant] What effects do you experience in your diet when the above food items are missing?

[User] We have no any bad effects due to the missing of the above food items.

[Assistant] How does this type of diet affect your tribes?

[User] Among the Zigua people we have no any bad effect.

[Assistant] You have mentioned factors for diet changes which include social and tribe interaction such as immigration of barbaigs and Arusha people, availability of varieties of food at the market, provision of education such as secondary and college education, shifting of cows, crop cultivation among the Maasai, etc. You have talked about foods which are considered to be for the poor people such as kungujuu, wild jute leaves, etc. Now what are the major and minor factors for the change in diet?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We have no any bad effects due to the missing of the above food items.

[Assistant] How does this type of diet affect your tribes?

[User] Among the Zigua people we have no any bad effect.

[Assistant] You have mentioned factors for diet changes which include social and tribe interaction such as immigration of barbaigs and Arusha people, availability of varieties of food at the market, provision of education such as secondary and college education, shifting of cows, crop cultivation among the Maasai, etc. You have talked about foods which are considered to be for the poor people such as kungujuu, wild jute leaves, etc. Now what are the major and minor factors for the change in diet?

[User]
The major factor is crop cultivation.

The first factor is modern education

Education is the first factor.

[Assistant] Let one of you lead you to sort out the rest of the factors, starting with the first and last factor. Let everybody provide her views


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Among the Zigua people we have no any bad effect.

[Assistant] You have mentioned factors for diet changes which include social and tribe interaction such as immigration of barbaigs and Arusha people, availability of varieties of food at the market, provision of education such as secondary and college education, shifting of cows, crop cultivation among the Maasai, etc. You have talked about foods which are considered to be for the poor people such as kungujuu, wild jute leaves, etc. Now what are the major and minor factors for the change in diet?

[User]
The major factor is crop cultivation.

The first factor is modern education

Education is the first factor.

[Assistant] Let one of you lead you to sort out the rest of the factors, starting with the first and last factor. Let everybody provide her views

[User]
The first factor is education

The second factor is livestock keeping

The third factor should be crop cultivation.

The third factor is crop cultivation.

[Assistant] Why education has led to great changes in diet?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The major factor is crop cultivation.

The first factor is modern education

Education is the first factor.

[Assistant] Let one of you lead you to sort out the rest of the factors, starting with the first and last factor. Let everybody provide her views

[User]
The first factor is education

The second factor is livestock keeping

The third factor should be crop cultivation.

The third factor is crop cultivation.

[Assistant] Why education has led to great changes in diet?

[User] Education has brought many changes in diet as well as general development in all life aspects.

[Assistant] Which kind of development has been brought about by education?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The first factor is education

The second factor is livestock keeping

The third factor should be crop cultivation.

The third factor is crop cultivation.

[Assistant] Why education has led to great changes in diet?

[User] Education has brought many changes in diet as well as general development in all life aspects.

[Assistant] Which kind of development has been brought about by education?

[User] Education has brought about good development, for instance in Misima ward, we used to have educated and employed people from other places and not from our own place. Education has also helped children to build modern houses for their parents and do away with traditional Maasai huts.

[Assistant] How has livestock keeping led to these changes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Education has brought many changes in diet as well as general development in all life aspects.

[Assistant] Which kind of development has been brought about by education?

[User] Education has brought about good development, for instance in Misima ward, we used to have educated and employed people from other places and not from our own place. Education has also helped children to build modern houses for their parents and do away with traditional Maasai huts.

[Assistant] How has livestock keeping led to these changes?

[User]
Livestock keeping has helped to change living styles in our community because we sell cows and take children to school.

Education has brought changes because when children go to school, they acquire good habit and have good behaviors and build modern houses for their parents.

Education has also brought changes more especially in changing people's minds towards development, nowadays many people do work and produce and earn some income so as to take children to school.

[Assistant] Let us now discuss the use of milk. How was the importance of milk, at the time when your mothers were at your age?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Education has brought about good development, for instance in Misima ward, we used to have educated and employed people from other places and not from our own place. Education has also helped children to build modern houses for their parents and do away with traditional Maasai huts.

[Assistant] How has livestock keeping led to these changes?

[User]
Livestock keeping has helped to change living styles in our community because we sell cows and take children to school.

Education has brought changes because when children go to school, they acquire good habit and have good behaviors and build modern houses for their parents.

Education has also brought changes more especially in changing people's minds towards development, nowadays many people do work and produce and earn some income so as to take children to school.

[Assistant] Let us now discuss the use of milk. How was the importance of milk, at the time when your mothers were at your age?

[User] We did not have our own; we depended on other people.

[Assistant] Do we agree that milk is very important for health?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Livestock keeping has helped to change living styles in our community because we sell cows and take children to school.

Education has brought changes because when children go to school, they acquire good habit and have good behaviors and build modern houses for their parents.

Education has also brought changes more especially in changing people's minds towards development, nowadays many people do work and produce and earn some income so as to take children to school.

[Assistant] Let us now discuss the use of milk. How was the importance of milk, at the time when your mothers were at your age?

[User] We did not have our own; we depended on other people.

[Assistant] Do we agree that milk is very important for health?

[User] Yes, milk is very important for health but nowadays there is scarcity of milk because of aridity.

[Assistant] How is the situation currently for other people?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We did not have our own; we depended on other people.

[Assistant] Do we agree that milk is very important for health?

[User] Yes, milk is very important for health but nowadays there is scarcity of milk because of aridity.

[Assistant] How is the situation currently for other people?

[User] Currently the situation is very bad because there is no milk.

[Assistant] Which months do you get enough milk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, milk is very important for health but nowadays there is scarcity of milk because of aridity.

[Assistant] How is the situation currently for other people?

[User] Currently the situation is very bad because there is no milk.

[Assistant] Which months do you get enough milk?

[User] We always have enough milk during rainy season, in March, April to May because we always have enough pasture in the grazing fields.

[Assistant] Does milk still have the real importance to our body health like it was in the past years?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Currently the situation is very bad because there is no milk.

[Assistant] Which months do you get enough milk?

[User] We always have enough milk during rainy season, in March, April to May because we always have enough pasture in the grazing fields.

[Assistant] Does milk still have the real importance to our body health like it was in the past years?

[User] In the past we used to drink milk as our staple food, we did not use any kind of relish or vegetable, we simply used milk for everything. Milk was used as cooking oil for our meals.

[Assistant] What caused this situation to change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We always have enough milk during rainy season, in March, April to May because we always have enough pasture in the grazing fields.

[Assistant] Does milk still have the real importance to our body health like it was in the past years?

[User] In the past we used to drink milk as our staple food, we did not use any kind of relish or vegetable, we simply used milk for everything. Milk was used as cooking oil for our meals.

[Assistant] What caused this situation to change?

[User]
The situation changed because the world is changing, and crop farms are changing, there are a lot of farms.

We Zigua people do not depend on milk for our meals, even if the child stops breast feeding, we cannot feed it with milk or we cannot prepare milk for stiff porridge as sauce.

The importance of milk is still the same, but we Zigua people do not much depend on milk to feed the baby, unless when a baby stops sucking or when a baby is delivered and the mother dies soon after delivery

A baby should be breastfed six months consecutively without giving it goat or cow milk, unless the mother dies before six months after delivery, even if a baby is fed with cow milk in normal circumstances the health condition of that baby will be poorer than a breastfed baby. If you feed a baby with cow milk, you should mix it with some water so as to rescue the baby from diarrhea.

[Assistant] What is the importance of milk to our health in Zigua community?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In the past we used to drink milk as our staple food, we did not use any kind of relish or vegetable, we simply used milk for everything. Milk was used as cooking oil for our meals.

[Assistant] What caused this situation to change?

[User]
The situation changed because the world is changing, and crop farms are changing, there are a lot of farms.

We Zigua people do not depend on milk for our meals, even if the child stops breast feeding, we cannot feed it with milk or we cannot prepare milk for stiff porridge as sauce.

The importance of milk is still the same, but we Zigua people do not much depend on milk to feed the baby, unless when a baby stops sucking or when a baby is delivered and the mother dies soon after delivery

A baby should be breastfed six months consecutively without giving it goat or cow milk, unless the mother dies before six months after delivery, even if a baby is fed with cow milk in normal circumstances the health condition of that baby will be poorer than a breastfed baby. If you feed a baby with cow milk, you should mix it with some water so as to rescue the baby from diarrhea.

[Assistant] What is the importance of milk to our health in Zigua community?

[User] The importance of milk is much realized in restaurants because most people prefer milk tea to black tea.

[Assistant] Let us discuss the use of cow blood. When do you use cow blood?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The situation changed because the world is changing, and crop farms are changing, there are a lot of farms.

We Zigua people do not depend on milk for our meals, even if the child stops breast feeding, we cannot feed it with milk or we cannot prepare milk for stiff porridge as sauce.

The importance of milk is still the same, but we Zigua people do not much depend on milk to feed the baby, unless when a baby stops sucking or when a baby is delivered and the mother dies soon after delivery

A baby should be breastfed six months consecutively without giving it goat or cow milk, unless the mother dies before six months after delivery, even if a baby is fed with cow milk in normal circumstances the health condition of that baby will be poorer than a breastfed baby. If you feed a baby with cow milk, you should mix it with some water so as to rescue the baby from diarrhea.

[Assistant] What is the importance of milk to our health in Zigua community?

[User] The importance of milk is much realized in restaurants because most people prefer milk tea to black tea.

[Assistant] Let us discuss the use of cow blood. When do you use cow blood?

[User] We always drink cow blood if someone falls sick or when someone feels dizzy or when someone has anemia, this helps to stabilize his body.

[Assistant] Do you use cow blood when it still fresh or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The importance of milk is much realized in restaurants because most people prefer milk tea to black tea.

[Assistant] Let us discuss the use of cow blood. When do you use cow blood?

[User] We always drink cow blood if someone falls sick or when someone feels dizzy or when someone has anemia, this helps to stabilize his body.

[Assistant] Do you use cow blood when it still fresh or?

[User]
We always use fresh cow blood, after tapping it from the cow we mix it with milk and drink it.

We always tap blood from the cow which is about to bear a calf. If a baby is seriously sick we use goat blood.

[Assistant] How much do you give a baby?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We always drink cow blood if someone falls sick or when someone feels dizzy or when someone has anemia, this helps to stabilize his body.

[Assistant] Do you use cow blood when it still fresh or?

[User]
We always use fresh cow blood, after tapping it from the cow we mix it with milk and drink it.

We always tap blood from the cow which is about to bear a calf. If a baby is seriously sick we use goat blood.

[Assistant] How much do you give a baby?

[User] We give a baby just a small amount of blood.

[Assistant] Do you mix it with milk so as to give a baby or not?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
We always use fresh cow blood, after tapping it from the cow we mix it with milk and drink it.

We always tap blood from the cow which is about to bear a calf. If a baby is seriously sick we use goat blood.

[Assistant] How much do you give a baby?

[User] We give a baby just a small amount of blood.

[Assistant] Do you mix it with milk so as to give a baby or not?

[User] You can either mix it with milk or some oil.

[Assistant] How do you prepare the cow blood for the baby?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We give a baby just a small amount of blood.

[Assistant] Do you mix it with milk so as to give a baby or not?

[User] You can either mix it with milk or some oil.

[Assistant] How do you prepare the cow blood for the baby?

[User] We just give the baby just small amounts of it

[Assistant] How do the Zigua people use cow blood?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] You can either mix it with milk or some oil.

[Assistant] How do you prepare the cow blood for the baby?

[User] We just give the baby just small amounts of it

[Assistant] How do the Zigua people use cow blood?

[User]
The Zigua people do not use cow blood.

We do not use cow blood.

[Assistant] Do you think cow blood is very important?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We just give the baby just small amounts of it

[Assistant] How do the Zigua people use cow blood?

[User]
The Zigua people do not use cow blood.

We do not use cow blood.

[Assistant] Do you think cow blood is very important?

[User] Cow blood is very important for the Maasai because it helps our patients to increase blood in the body system.

[Assistant] What is the importance of cow blood nowadays compared to the time when you were still young?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The Zigua people do not use cow blood.

We do not use cow blood.

[Assistant] Do you think cow blood is very important?

[User] Cow blood is very important for the Maasai because it helps our patients to increase blood in the body system.

[Assistant] What is the importance of cow blood nowadays compared to the time when you were still young?

[User] Nowadays there is change in using cow blood, people do go to hospital to increase blood in their body in case of anemia.

[Assistant] Why there is little change in the use of cow blood?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Cow blood is very important for the Maasai because it helps our patients to increase blood in the body system.

[Assistant] What is the importance of cow blood nowadays compared to the time when you were still young?

[User] Nowadays there is change in using cow blood, people do go to hospital to increase blood in their body in case of anemia.

[Assistant] Why there is little change in the use of cow blood?

[User] It is because the world is changing. The older things are being abandoned and people do adopt new things. The main factor for this change is education.

[Assistant] How has change in diet affected our communities or tribes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Nowadays there is change in using cow blood, people do go to hospital to increase blood in their body in case of anemia.

[Assistant] Why there is little change in the use of cow blood?

[User] It is because the world is changing. The older things are being abandoned and people do adopt new things. The main factor for this change is education.

[Assistant] How has change in diet affected our communities or tribes?

[User] Changes in diet have affected our communities/tribes because many people have abandoned natural and traditional food stuffs, these changes have created an image which did not exist before.

[Assistant] How have these changes affected the youths in Kibaya village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It is because the world is changing. The older things are being abandoned and people do adopt new things. The main factor for this change is education.

[Assistant] How has change in diet affected our communities or tribes?

[User] Changes in diet have affected our communities/tribes because many people have abandoned natural and traditional food stuffs, these changes have created an image which did not exist before.

[Assistant] How have these changes affected the youths in Kibaya village?

[User]
These changes have affected the youths because most youths tend to have bad habits and behaviors.

Changes in diet have affected the youths because in the past years most youths used to eat foods at homes but nowadays they just eat foods at the food vendors.

[Assistant] How do you choose food to eat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Changes in diet have affected our communities/tribes because many people have abandoned natural and traditional food stuffs, these changes have created an image which did not exist before.

[Assistant] How have these changes affected the youths in Kibaya village?

[User]
These changes have affected the youths because most youths tend to have bad habits and behaviors.

Changes in diet have affected the youths because in the past years most youths used to eat foods at homes but nowadays they just eat foods at the food vendors.

[Assistant] How do you choose food to eat?

[User] I always choose depending on my personal interests, for instance I may need to eat stiff porridge today and tomorrow I decide to eat rice, etc.

[Assistant] Which foods are most preferred by the youths?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
These changes have affected the youths because most youths tend to have bad habits and behaviors.

Changes in diet have affected the youths because in the past years most youths used to eat foods at homes but nowadays they just eat foods at the food vendors.

[Assistant] How do you choose food to eat?

[User] I always choose depending on my personal interests, for instance I may need to eat stiff porridge today and tomorrow I decide to eat rice, etc.

[Assistant] Which foods are most preferred by the youths?

[User]
They prefer chips, chicken, and

Meat.

Rice, pilau

Potatoes.

[Assistant] How do you choose food to prepare/cook?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I always choose depending on my personal interests, for instance I may need to eat stiff porridge today and tomorrow I decide to eat rice, etc.

[Assistant] Which foods are most preferred by the youths?

[User]
They prefer chips, chicken, and

Meat.

Rice, pilau

Potatoes.

[Assistant] How do you choose food to prepare/cook?

[User]
You can choose food to cook stiff porridge, amaranth leaves and sardines for lunch, rice and beans for dinner and cracked and cooked maize for the whole day.

Every person prepares food according to his choice

[Assistant] What about for the case of men, is it for men of all age groups or not?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
They prefer chips, chicken, and

Meat.

Rice, pilau

Potatoes.

[Assistant] How do you choose food to prepare/cook?

[User]
You can choose food to cook stiff porridge, amaranth leaves and sardines for lunch, rice and beans for dinner and cracked and cooked maize for the whole day.

Every person prepares food according to his choice

[Assistant] What about for the case of men, is it for men of all age groups or not?

[User] Men do eat the same food regardless of the age group.

[Assistant] Which drinks are most taken by youths?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
You can choose food to cook stiff porridge, amaranth leaves and sardines for lunch, rice and beans for dinner and cracked and cooked maize for the whole day.

Every person prepares food according to his choice

[Assistant] What about for the case of men, is it for men of all age groups or not?

[User] Men do eat the same food regardless of the age group.

[Assistant] Which drinks are most taken by youths?

[User] Youths also eat the same foods and drinks which are prepared by people.

[Assistant] You mentioned that some foods which are preferred by youths include rice, pilau, chips, chicken, meat, etc. WHY DO YOU PREFER THESE FOODS?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Men do eat the same food regardless of the age group.

[Assistant] Which drinks are most taken by youths?

[User] Youths also eat the same foods and drinks which are prepared by people.

[Assistant] You mentioned that some foods which are preferred by youths include rice, pilau, chips, chicken, meat, etc. WHY DO YOU PREFER THESE FOODS?

[User]
We prefer such kind of food because of their delicious taste

We consider the food taste

[Assistant] Who is responsible to prepare and cook the above-mentioned food stuffs? Which factors cause someone to prepare certain type of food among the above-mentioned ones? What is the first and last food item?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Youths also eat the same foods and drinks which are prepared by people.

[Assistant] You mentioned that some foods which are preferred by youths include rice, pilau, chips, chicken, meat, etc. WHY DO YOU PREFER THESE FOODS?

[User]
We prefer such kind of food because of their delicious taste

We consider the food taste

[Assistant] Who is responsible to prepare and cook the above-mentioned food stuffs? Which factors cause someone to prepare certain type of food among the above-mentioned ones? What is the first and last food item?

[User]
The first food item should be chips

The second food item should be meat

The third be should be potatoes

The fourth one should be milk.

[Assistant] You have mentioned three factors for food preference including food taste, food preparation method and responsibilities as well as food preference/interest?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
We prefer such kind of food because of their delicious taste

We consider the food taste

[Assistant] Who is responsible to prepare and cook the above-mentioned food stuffs? Which factors cause someone to prepare certain type of food among the above-mentioned ones? What is the first and last food item?

[User]
The first food item should be chips

The second food item should be meat

The third be should be potatoes

The fourth one should be milk.

[Assistant] You have mentioned three factors for food preference including food taste, food preparation method and responsibilities as well as food preference/interest?

[User]
The first factor should be food taste

The first factor should be food taste

[Assistant] How does food taste affect the choice of food among the youths?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The first food item should be chips

The second food item should be meat

The third be should be potatoes

The fourth one should be milk.

[Assistant] You have mentioned three factors for food preference including food taste, food preparation method and responsibilities as well as food preference/interest?

[User]
The first factor should be food taste

The first factor should be food taste

[Assistant] How does food taste affect the choice of food among the youths?

[User]
The food taste enables a youth to choose a type of food because when food tastes delicious, then it will be preferred by most people.

The second factor is food preference

The last factor is food preparation responsibilities

[Assistant] Where do youths get diet education from?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The first factor should be food taste

The first factor should be food taste

[Assistant] How does food taste affect the choice of food among the youths?

[User]
The food taste enables a youth to choose a type of food because when food tastes delicious, then it will be preferred by most people.

The second factor is food preference

The last factor is food preparation responsibilities

[Assistant] Where do youths get diet education from?

[User]
We get diet and health education from schools.

Sometimes we get diet and health education from our mothers/grandmothers and sisters in our homes.

At school, we learn how to prepare and cook delicious food.

At homes, we get to be educated and given instructions by our mothers and sisters, they instruct us how to prepare food or relish from the first step to the last step.

Even our brothers do teach us and instruct us how to prepare and cook food, although this is not done in most cases. They normally do it when our sisters and mothers are absent.

[Assistant] How do you compare the position of school and homes in providing diet education


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The food taste enables a youth to choose a type of food because when food tastes delicious, then it will be preferred by most people.

The second factor is food preference

The last factor is food preparation responsibilities

[Assistant] Where do youths get diet education from?

[User]
We get diet and health education from schools.

Sometimes we get diet and health education from our mothers/grandmothers and sisters in our homes.

At school, we learn how to prepare and cook delicious food.

At homes, we get to be educated and given instructions by our mothers and sisters, they instruct us how to prepare food or relish from the first step to the last step.

Even our brothers do teach us and instruct us how to prepare and cook food, although this is not done in most cases. They normally do it when our sisters and mothers are absent.

[Assistant] How do you compare the position of school and homes in providing diet education

[User] The position of school is less important than homes, because at schools we always happen to get chances to prepare food during different events such as standard seven national examination sessions or graduation, homes have a big chance because most of us spend much time at homes, so we get to learn many things from our elders about diet and good health.

[Assistant] What is the importance of diet and good health education to women?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
We get diet and health education from schools.

Sometimes we get diet and health education from our mothers/grandmothers and sisters in our homes.

At school, we learn how to prepare and cook delicious food.

At homes, we get to be educated and given instructions by our mothers and sisters, they instruct us how to prepare food or relish from the first step to the last step.

Even our brothers do teach us and instruct us how to prepare and cook food, although this is not done in most cases. They normally do it when our sisters and mothers are absent.

[Assistant] How do you compare the position of school and homes in providing diet education

[User] The position of school is less important than homes, because at schools we always happen to get chances to prepare food during different events such as standard seven national examination sessions or graduation, homes have a big chance because most of us spend much time at homes, so we get to learn many things from our elders about diet and good health.

[Assistant] What is the importance of diet and good health education to women?

[User] A woman has to know how to prepare and cook food because if you do not know how to cook food, then the family will not consider you as a real woman.

[Assistant] What should be done so as to improve provision of diet education at schools? Do you mean that the youths who go to school and graduate, they do not know how to cook food?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The position of school is less important than homes, because at schools we always happen to get chances to prepare food during different events such as standard seven national examination sessions or graduation, homes have a big chance because most of us spend much time at homes, so we get to learn many things from our elders about diet and good health.

[Assistant] What is the importance of diet and good health education to women?

[User] A woman has to know how to prepare and cook food because if you do not know how to cook food, then the family will not consider you as a real woman.

[Assistant] What should be done so as to improve provision of diet education at schools? Do you mean that the youths who go to school and graduate, they do not know how to cook food?

[User]
They know how to cook.

The school children do know how to cook food because they get extra knowledge about diet and health.

[Assistant] Can diet and health education help to improve food varieties at homes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] A woman has to know how to prepare and cook food because if you do not know how to cook food, then the family will not consider you as a real woman.

[Assistant] What should be done so as to improve provision of diet education at schools? Do you mean that the youths who go to school and graduate, they do not know how to cook food?

[User]
They know how to cook.

The school children do know how to cook food because they get extra knowledge about diet and health.

[Assistant] Can diet and health education help to improve food varieties at homes?

[User] Yes, it can help to improve food preparation.

[Assistant] How should diet and health education be provided to youths?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
They know how to cook.

The school children do know how to cook food because they get extra knowledge about diet and health.

[Assistant] Can diet and health education help to improve food varieties at homes?

[User] Yes, it can help to improve food preparation.

[Assistant] How should diet and health education be provided to youths?

[User]
There should be seminars and regular provision of diet education to youths.

There should be a committee for cookery; this will help the Kibaya village girls to get enough education about diet and health issues.

[Assistant] How should the committee work?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, it can help to improve food preparation.

[Assistant] How should diet and health education be provided to youths?

[User]
There should be seminars and regular provision of diet education to youths.

There should be a committee for cookery; this will help the Kibaya village girls to get enough education about diet and health issues.

[Assistant] How should the committee work?

[User] The committee for cookery should provide education to youths.

[Assistant] Who should form the committee?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
There should be seminars and regular provision of diet education to youths.

There should be a committee for cookery; this will help the Kibaya village girls to get enough education about diet and health issues.

[Assistant] How should the committee work?

[User] The committee for cookery should provide education to youths.

[Assistant] Who should form the committee?

[User] In villages and sub villages, the chairperson becomes responsible to form a committee because he/she knows the people very well. The number of sub villages and youths should be taken into consideration.

[Assistant] How many members should form the committee?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The committee for cookery should provide education to youths.

[Assistant] Who should form the committee?

[User] In villages and sub villages, the chairperson becomes responsible to form a committee because he/she knows the people very well. The number of sub villages and youths should be taken into consideration.

[Assistant] How many members should form the committee?

[User] It depends on the decision of the sub village chairperson.

[Assistant] What should the committee teach about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In villages and sub villages, the chairperson becomes responsible to form a committee because he/she knows the people very well. The number of sub villages and youths should be taken into consideration.

[Assistant] How many members should form the committee?

[User] It depends on the decision of the sub village chairperson.

[Assistant] What should the committee teach about?

[User] The committee should teach about cookery issues.

[Assistant] How many times should the committee meet?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It depends on the decision of the sub village chairperson.

[Assistant] What should the committee teach about?

[User] The committee should teach about cookery issues.

[Assistant] How many times should the committee meet?

[User] It will depend on their demands and needs.

[Assistant] Thank you very much for your time. Do you have any other additional opinions? Thanks for your participation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] So from the people I spoke to and research, my view would be that it doesn't make sense for it not to be mandatory, I think it either has to be not used at all or be within a mandatory system. What we have seen with the pilots is that the pilots are voluntary, it just wasn't making sense, people on the ground involved in the pilots were saying we're having real trouble getting developers to sign up to this, it's this new thing - why would they sign up for this, when it's voluntary, if they can't see the benefits for it yet. So, I would suggest that it would need to be part of a mandatory system that is really well controlled, not a crazy one it could develop into.

[Assistant] After speaking to one of the campaigning organisations, the respondent was saying there might be rogue traders that crop up if there is no regulatory system of certified offsetters.

[User] Absolutely, there's a real problem, I think we've seen some of that in the US going on as well. I know The Environment Bank are very keen to be part of a legal framework and mandatory system - they are concerned there could be rogue traders and which undercut them and don’t applying things in the proper way.

[Assistant] Maybe there are parallels between carbon offsetting and biodiversity offsetting in that there is a race to the bottom in providing the cheapest offsets?

[User] Absolutely, that's the risk when you make it a market system. There can be advantages of it being a market system, but that is a risk. Certainly people that are negative about BO were pointing to CO world and what's going on there.

[Assistant] More from an equity point of view: when people undertake BO, do you think affected communities are remunerated, or should they be, is it always practical?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] My point of view is that yes it would be really important to be including local stakeholders but considering the other part of my research looking at the local authorities and the resources they have yes it would be really important to have that process happening and be including ... but considering the way ecological impact assessment is happening at the moment, even without extra need for considering BO, there's not the resources there to do this process. The less you have particular local authorities that have very engaged planning officers, or particularly have ecologists actually employed by the local authorities or a very strong relationship with ecologists that are used by the local authority, then there's a risk that that process doesn't happen and the local people are ignored. The other way would be to have a developer that very strongly wanted to take part in that process and you might have developers that are like that because that's very important for their PR, but that kind of needs to be managed in a way, otherwise you end up with people at loggerheads and no constructive debate at all I guess. I don't really know to what extent that has or hasn't happened. I think looking abroad and saying this happened here so that's gonna happen here isn't necessarily true because I think we have a very different situation in the UK to the US or Australia. I'd say, look at the planning system at the moment, look at the flaws in it. The real lack of ecologists. The biodiversity duty just not being properly considered at all within many local authorities.

[Assistant] Is it a resource problem?

[User] It's a resource problem, it's massive cuts within local authorities, the ecology.

[Assistant] this cropped up a lot in the interviews.

[User] This was happening before this...

[Assistant] This signals the entry of the private sector into conservation. It obviously presents opportunities and risks. What kind of opportunities and risks do you think it poses?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It's a resource problem, it's massive cuts within local authorities, the ecology.

[Assistant] this cropped up a lot in the interviews.

[User] This was happening before this...

[Assistant] This signals the entry of the private sector into conservation. It obviously presents opportunities and risks. What kind of opportunities and risks do you think it poses?

[User] Do you mean in terms of having consultant ecologists being involved in the process?

[Assistant] From the point of view of of offsetters and then the developers creating pots of money for wildlife trusts.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] This was happening before this...

[Assistant] This signals the entry of the private sector into conservation. It obviously presents opportunities and risks. What kind of opportunities and risks do you think it poses?

[User] Do you mean in terms of having consultant ecologists being involved in the process?

[Assistant] From the point of view of of offsetters and then the developers creating pots of money for wildlife trusts.

[User] There is a massive opportunity there for conservation and it could be really exciting if it's done as an additional and that causes a fear, that this money that is meant to be additional to enhance areas or give additional land around SSSIs might creep into what should be the statutory duty of government to be funding, that that could end up being used private money. I suppose a pragmatist would say look what the situation is at the moment, if we want there to be funding for nature conservation this is the way we are going to have to go. So it's a difficult one.

[Assistant] What happens, this is what no one has been able to fathom. What happens to the biodiversity offsetting site, does it go into private hands and also, does it acquire some kind of new status? Or can you build on a biodiversity offset site?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Do you mean in terms of having consultant ecologists being involved in the process?

[Assistant] From the point of view of of offsetters and then the developers creating pots of money for wildlife trusts.

[User] There is a massive opportunity there for conservation and it could be really exciting if it's done as an additional and that causes a fear, that this money that is meant to be additional to enhance areas or give additional land around SSSIs might creep into what should be the statutory duty of government to be funding, that that could end up being used private money. I suppose a pragmatist would say look what the situation is at the moment, if we want there to be funding for nature conservation this is the way we are going to have to go. So it's a difficult one.

[Assistant] What happens, this is what no one has been able to fathom. What happens to the biodiversity offsetting site, does it go into private hands and also, does it acquire some kind of new status? Or can you build on a biodiversity offset site?

[User] That would just completely defeat the object if you could build on a biodiversity offsetting site. But without the proper legal framework in place, which I believe, .... lot of talk about conservation covenance, but...

[Assistant] what is conservation covenance?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] There is a massive opportunity there for conservation and it could be really exciting if it's done as an additional and that causes a fear, that this money that is meant to be additional to enhance areas or give additional land around SSSIs might creep into what should be the statutory duty of government to be funding, that that could end up being used private money. I suppose a pragmatist would say look what the situation is at the moment, if we want there to be funding for nature conservation this is the way we are going to have to go. So it's a difficult one.

[Assistant] What happens, this is what no one has been able to fathom. What happens to the biodiversity offsetting site, does it go into private hands and also, does it acquire some kind of new status? Or can you build on a biodiversity offset site?

[User] That would just completely defeat the object if you could build on a biodiversity offsetting site. But without the proper legal framework in place, which I believe, .... lot of talk about conservation covenance, but...

[Assistant] what is conservation covenance?

[User] The government have asked a legal body, looking at law and offsetting land. There might be a law about what you can do with a site between 50-100 years. From an ecological perspective, you need to have at least a 100 year agreement in order to bring it up to this standard. It is gonna have to be for at least 100 years. When I was speaking to landowners and particularly farmers. If we want to get farmers involved, that would be a real way to provide large areas we want. But farmers work in sort of next year and five year, 10 year cycles. They can't be sure the money from having this offset, that is going to still be viable economically if we want to have people other than simply the wildlife trust and conservation organisations being part of managing offsets, you've gotta sort the legal framework out before that happens.

[Assistant] Will there be an incentive for more conservation to be outsourced to the private sector if they can undercut the well recognised conservation organisations?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] That would just completely defeat the object if you could build on a biodiversity offsetting site. But without the proper legal framework in place, which I believe, .... lot of talk about conservation covenance, but...

[Assistant] what is conservation covenance?

[User] The government have asked a legal body, looking at law and offsetting land. There might be a law about what you can do with a site between 50-100 years. From an ecological perspective, you need to have at least a 100 year agreement in order to bring it up to this standard. It is gonna have to be for at least 100 years. When I was speaking to landowners and particularly farmers. If we want to get farmers involved, that would be a real way to provide large areas we want. But farmers work in sort of next year and five year, 10 year cycles. They can't be sure the money from having this offset, that is going to still be viable economically if we want to have people other than simply the wildlife trust and conservation organisations being part of managing offsets, you've gotta sort the legal framework out before that happens.

[Assistant] Will there be an incentive for more conservation to be outsourced to the private sector if they can undercut the well recognised conservation organisations?

[User] Businesses cropping up to carrying out offsetting rather than just being the broker? I didn't get a feeling as to how people thought about that. It might be seen as a high business risk. This is why we need to have checks on biodiversity offsetting sites that actually they are being brought up to the quality required for this number of units and managed through time and not degraded.

[Assistant] What do you think of the emphasis on market based instruments for conservation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The government have asked a legal body, looking at law and offsetting land. There might be a law about what you can do with a site between 50-100 years. From an ecological perspective, you need to have at least a 100 year agreement in order to bring it up to this standard. It is gonna have to be for at least 100 years. When I was speaking to landowners and particularly farmers. If we want to get farmers involved, that would be a real way to provide large areas we want. But farmers work in sort of next year and five year, 10 year cycles. They can't be sure the money from having this offset, that is going to still be viable economically if we want to have people other than simply the wildlife trust and conservation organisations being part of managing offsets, you've gotta sort the legal framework out before that happens.

[Assistant] Will there be an incentive for more conservation to be outsourced to the private sector if they can undercut the well recognised conservation organisations?

[User] Businesses cropping up to carrying out offsetting rather than just being the broker? I didn't get a feeling as to how people thought about that. It might be seen as a high business risk. This is why we need to have checks on biodiversity offsetting sites that actually they are being brought up to the quality required for this number of units and managed through time and not degraded.

[Assistant] What do you think of the emphasis on market based instruments for conservation?

[User] From a pragmatic point of view we do need to embrace them, as a tool to get people to see the hidden value of nature and the ecosystem services we get from nature, because at the moment, a lot of the time in decision making, I get the feeling within government, conservation is an added extra thing that you tack on the side. The current coalition said what's good for business is good for the environment, vice versa. I'm not sure that attitude has run deep yet.

[Assistant] How should we use the numbers? As a tool for agenda building or to guide policy


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] So I would say… since 2015, then when I had my first, let's say, leadership role in (the company), as head of risk management,

[Assistant] okay, I'm guessing this will be the tenure within the organization as well. So we can count it from 2015. Right?

[User] Yes. Yes. At the Company, I was since 2014. But since 2015, then or actually (paused for recollection) it was 2016. May 2016. Yeah, May 2016. Yep.

[Assistant] Yep. We'll adjust that. It's no problem. Team members that were included in the quantitative study was 6, if I remember correctly, correct. Yeah. And what would you say was the biggest challenge during implementation?

[User] Yeah, it was definitely keeping the colleagues motivated, keeping them going. So to say, after we announced that this change is coming, that they would not drop either drop there, you know, things and not show any dedication to work anymore, or leave the organization completely. So this was something that was a big worry for the Company, but also for me personally. And then on the other side. It was also, you know, how you (uhmm) how this project (of change) will impact them personally. So how can we ensure that they will not (uhm...) That the we will have the outcome that will, to the least extent affect them negatively, personally. So that was, at least from my perspective, the biggest challenge.

[Assistant] that's great. Then, if we could kind of observe your organizational change project as a story. What would you say were the key elements and I'm gonna do a quick round of question, you just do a quick answer. So it's like, who was the protagonist


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes. Yes. At the Company, I was since 2014. But since 2015, then or actually (paused for recollection) it was 2016. May 2016. Yeah, May 2016. Yep.

[Assistant] Yep. We'll adjust that. It's no problem. Team members that were included in the quantitative study was 6, if I remember correctly, correct. Yeah. And what would you say was the biggest challenge during implementation?

[User] Yeah, it was definitely keeping the colleagues motivated, keeping them going. So to say, after we announced that this change is coming, that they would not drop either drop there, you know, things and not show any dedication to work anymore, or leave the organization completely. So this was something that was a big worry for the Company, but also for me personally. And then on the other side. It was also, you know, how you (uhmm) how this project (of change) will impact them personally. So how can we ensure that they will not (uhm...) That the we will have the outcome that will, to the least extent affect them negatively, personally. So that was, at least from my perspective, the biggest challenge.

[Assistant] that's great. Then, if we could kind of observe your organizational change project as a story. What would you say were the key elements and I'm gonna do a quick round of question, you just do a quick answer. So it's like, who was the protagonist

[User] so in this case, does it need to be a person?

[Assistant] It doesn't have to, it's up to you, you know, maybe your protagonist was a team, maybe it was the organization, maybe it was some individual.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, it was definitely keeping the colleagues motivated, keeping them going. So to say, after we announced that this change is coming, that they would not drop either drop there, you know, things and not show any dedication to work anymore, or leave the organization completely. So this was something that was a big worry for the Company, but also for me personally. And then on the other side. It was also, you know, how you (uhmm) how this project (of change) will impact them personally. So how can we ensure that they will not (uhm...) That the we will have the outcome that will, to the least extent affect them negatively, personally. So that was, at least from my perspective, the biggest challenge.

[Assistant] that's great. Then, if we could kind of observe your organizational change project as a story. What would you say were the key elements and I'm gonna do a quick round of question, you just do a quick answer. So it's like, who was the protagonist

[User] so in this case, does it need to be a person?

[Assistant] It doesn't have to, it's up to you, you know, maybe your protagonist was a team, maybe it was the organization, maybe it was some individual.

[User] Yeah, the protagonist that I would see here was the Company, (or more precisely) private, individual business in Country. And because this is the organization that was going through this major change, and I was, as a general manager responsible are at least held responsible, definitely for the whole organization. So that's, that's (uhhm) why I would say that the protagonist here was the whole organization, not only this core team.

[Assistant] who would you say, was the antagonist? So like, the bad guy of the story?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] so in this case, does it need to be a person?

[Assistant] It doesn't have to, it's up to you, you know, maybe your protagonist was a team, maybe it was the organization, maybe it was some individual.

[User] Yeah, the protagonist that I would see here was the Company, (or more precisely) private, individual business in Country. And because this is the organization that was going through this major change, and I was, as a general manager responsible are at least held responsible, definitely for the whole organization. So that's, that's (uhhm) why I would say that the protagonist here was the whole organization, not only this core team.

[Assistant] who would you say, was the antagonist? So like, the bad guy of the story?

[User] The bad guy of the story, would then be (uhm…) you know, the pressure from the owners of the Company and automate this change, we would need to sell the business or run the business off. Because we were not significant enough on a global level, and the Company decided to focus only on the core markets. So the antagonist in this sense, would be the expected... (uhm…) expectation or the owners and their expectations. I found it in this story, that that was the antagonist, they were trying to impose this change on their organization that nobody wanted to see. But it was coming from… from the owners. It was not the management itself. So nothing, not only the Organization's management in the head office, because they were also only doing what the owners, more specifically the shareholders wanted to see.

[Assistant] And what would you say was the inciting moment that triggered this change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, it was also something that was... (uhh...) with us throughout this change process, you know, and it was also something where I, as general manager had to convey this message to other colleagues, you know, in find the right balance, let's say... Not to be fully on the (other) side, saying: "Oh, this is makes no sense". This is something I'm still, you know, responsible for this realization you need to do and execute what was asked of me, but still to find the right balance and how you communicate it in a sense that you don't say: "Yeah, this needs to be done, because then that's only these points..", but also, not only on the other side, saying :"Yeah, this makes no sense. Let's not do it"... because it needed to be executed, you know, so you needed to keep the colleagues motivated, you need to do just accept the decision, because it cannot be reverted. And then make the best out of this decision that what you can make and keep the team as stable as possible. So that was the goal. Actually, that at least in my head was set the minute I found out about what's coming.

[Assistant] Let's just do the quick round of these short, you know, kind of quick draw questions. What would you say is the general of this change story?

[User] Thriller... Maybe Drama Thriller.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's great. And what would you say was the main moral of the story?

[User] Yeah, with the right team you can move mountains, nothing is impossible.

[Assistant] What would you say was the most frequently used metaphor, during your interactions with the team on this change project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Thriller... Maybe Drama Thriller.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's great. And what would you say was the main moral of the story?

[User] Yeah, with the right team you can move mountains, nothing is impossible.

[Assistant] What would you say was the most frequently used metaphor, during your interactions with the team on this change project?

[User] That, that... that... that... that.. (seeking words) I meant with, you know, nothing being impossible, you know, and they can achieve anything, and we can achieve anything. Together, we will be moving, and making sure that we get the best out of this situation, do what we can. So still focusing, not on the problem, not on this, you know, dark side of what might be coming, but rather on what positive outcomes we can get out of this, that we have a great team as not only in the risk domain, but as a Company, we have a lot of talent here. We have a great products, a great core banking system, you know, many assets that will be extremely valuable to another organization. And let's try to make this success story at the end of the day.

[Assistant] Could you talk me through an anecdote which will demonstrate how to how did these change recipients behave before you started to change? You know, when they had no previous knowledge of upcoming organizational change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, with the right team you can move mountains, nothing is impossible.

[Assistant] What would you say was the most frequently used metaphor, during your interactions with the team on this change project?

[User] That, that... that... that... that.. (seeking words) I meant with, you know, nothing being impossible, you know, and they can achieve anything, and we can achieve anything. Together, we will be moving, and making sure that we get the best out of this situation, do what we can. So still focusing, not on the problem, not on this, you know, dark side of what might be coming, but rather on what positive outcomes we can get out of this, that we have a great team as not only in the risk domain, but as a Company, we have a lot of talent here. We have a great products, a great core banking system, you know, many assets that will be extremely valuable to another organization. And let's try to make this success story at the end of the day.

[Assistant] Could you talk me through an anecdote which will demonstrate how to how did these change recipients behave before you started to change? You know, when they had no previous knowledge of upcoming organizational change?

[User] Yeah, so I would say we were, well you know, lubricated machine like me here locomotive, you know, running smoothly, whenever there's a obstacle, you know, the tracks... (uhh..) It, it's removed without any significant issues, if there's turns to take, the turns are made with whatever direction the train needs to move, it became extremely strong, heavy, we could move with the ever increasing speeds carry more burden with us so to say. And it was just a pleasure working this piece of machinery, you know, moving and running so smoothly. So that was how the situation was before announcement,

[Assistant] W already touched a little bit upon the, the inciting moment and how these things started moving around. What I would ask you to kind of recollect for the purpose of this research, is how did you articulate this awakening moment where the organizational change was formally initiated? What would you say were the key elements of your speech?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] OK.

[Assistant] So do you have any questions for me before we get started?

[User] No, I don't think so. OK, good So.

[Assistant] How old are you?

[User] 30.

[Assistant] And what's your job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, I don't think so. OK, good So.

[Assistant] How old are you?

[User] 30.

[Assistant] And what's your job?

[User] I am a nurse practitioner.

[Assistant] What kind of unit?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I am a nurse practitioner.

[Assistant] What kind of unit?

[User] So during COVID, I was working in outpatient radiation oncology.

[Assistant] And now.

[User] I'm just home with my baby. Now.

[Assistant] Was that your only job?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] So during COVID, I was working in outpatient radiation oncology.

[Assistant] And now.

[User] I'm just home with my baby. Now.

[Assistant] Was that your only job?

[User] During the pandemic? Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Do you have a lot of immunocompromised patients then?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I'm just home with my baby. Now.

[Assistant] Was that your only job?

[User] During the pandemic? Yes. Yes.

[Assistant] Do you have a lot of immunocompromised patients then?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] OK, so can you tell me about when you first heard about COVID?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Yes. Yeah. So and I want to say I feel like we were shutting things down earlier than other or maybe it was like smoking. So the medical center in [city] is like it's the biggest medical center in the country. So there's like a bunch of hospitals like all in the same place. I think that they were all sort of adopting similar policies at the same time.

But it felt a little bit early. Like my friends who are nurses in other states, it seemed like we were kind of like adopting some of those measures on the earlier side. But honestly, it was probably just like days, right, because things were changing so fast. But I do think it was a little earlier.

[Assistant] He’s cute. He?

[User] It's a boy. Yeah.

[Assistant] Hey, little man. Hello.

[User] He might just stare at the screen. Yeah.

[Assistant] You know, maybe he can find himself on the screen.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It's a boy. Yeah.

[Assistant] Hey, little man. Hello.

[User] He might just stare at the screen. Yeah.

[Assistant] You know, maybe he can find himself on the screen.

[User] Right? Yeah.

[Assistant] Hey little man. He’s adorable. Those eyes! But you would have heard. I mean, you heard about it from podcasts. I mean, that would’ve been in late January, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] He might just stare at the screen. Yeah.

[Assistant] You know, maybe he can find himself on the screen.

[User] Right? Yeah.

[Assistant] Hey little man. He’s adorable. Those eyes! But you would have heard. I mean, you heard about it from podcasts. I mean, that would’ve been in late January, right?

[User] like, I'm trying to think like it would have been whenever it was sort of like breaking. Like, there's this virus in China. It seems to be really severe. So maybe it was February, you know, like, it's it's kind of hard for me to remember exactly when that was.

[Assistant] The month the lockdown in China was on the 22nd.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Right? Yeah.

[Assistant] Hey little man. He’s adorable. Those eyes! But you would have heard. I mean, you heard about it from podcasts. I mean, that would’ve been in late January, right?

[User] like, I'm trying to think like it would have been whenever it was sort of like breaking. Like, there's this virus in China. It seems to be really severe. So maybe it was February, you know, like, it's it's kind of hard for me to remember exactly when that was.

[Assistant] The month the lockdown in China was on the 22nd.

[User] Yeah. Okay. So then maybe it was then. Yeah, I have like I feel like, you know, the last couple of years have felt like decades. So it's hard for me to, but I was like, I would, I was paying attention, I would say. So I think whenever it was, if they were in lockdown, that would have been like when I was first aware of it.

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, it doesn't need to be that exact.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] like, I'm trying to think like it would have been whenever it was sort of like breaking. Like, there's this virus in China. It seems to be really severe. So maybe it was February, you know, like, it's it's kind of hard for me to remember exactly when that was.

[Assistant] The month the lockdown in China was on the 22nd.

[User] Yeah. Okay. So then maybe it was then. Yeah, I have like I feel like, you know, the last couple of years have felt like decades. So it's hard for me to, but I was like, I would, I was paying attention, I would say. So I think whenever it was, if they were in lockdown, that would have been like when I was first aware of it.

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, it doesn't need to be that exact.

[User] Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well.

[Assistant] So can you tell me about your your initial thoughts?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah. Okay. So then maybe it was then. Yeah, I have like I feel like, you know, the last couple of years have felt like decades. So it's hard for me to, but I was like, I would, I was paying attention, I would say. So I think whenever it was, if they were in lockdown, that would have been like when I was first aware of it.

[Assistant] Yeah. I mean, it doesn't need to be that exact.

[User] Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well.

[Assistant] So can you tell me about your your initial thoughts?

[User]
Yeah. So I think initially I was like, China is so far away and they've had virus outbreaks before, and we will we will be fine. Like, that's, that's so far that was my initial reaction. Like, I was not concerned at all when I first heard about it.

When the hospitals started making measures, though I think I started to get a lot more concerned when they were like, no more meetings and shutting down the employee gym and stuff because that was before like kind of the whole country shut down you know? But that's sort of I started to get concerned then.

[Assistant] Was there any any change between those two points.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well.

[Assistant] So can you tell me about your your initial thoughts?

[User]
Yeah. So I think initially I was like, China is so far away and they've had virus outbreaks before, and we will we will be fine. Like, that's, that's so far that was my initial reaction. Like, I was not concerned at all when I first heard about it.

When the hospitals started making measures, though I think I started to get a lot more concerned when they were like, no more meetings and shutting down the employee gym and stuff because that was before like kind of the whole country shut down you know? But that's sort of I started to get concerned then.

[Assistant] Was there any any change between those two points.

[User] Plus with like hospital protocols or?

[Assistant] With like how concerned you were, or scared, or curious.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Yeah. So I think initially I was like, China is so far away and they've had virus outbreaks before, and we will we will be fine. Like, that's, that's so far that was my initial reaction. Like, I was not concerned at all when I first heard about it.

When the hospitals started making measures, though I think I started to get a lot more concerned when they were like, no more meetings and shutting down the employee gym and stuff because that was before like kind of the whole country shut down you know? But that's sort of I started to get concerned then.

[Assistant] Was there any any change between those two points.

[User] Plus with like hospital protocols or?

[Assistant] With like how concerned you were, or scared, or curious.

[User] Yeah, I mean, I think so. I also I worked in head and neck radiation oncology, which means that every patient I was looking in their mouth, we would do like the flexible nasal laryngoscopy used to like we were like in in people's head and neck area. So we were also like identified as a high risk area. So I think that once people started getting more concerned, less, you I it was definitely scarier because you have to weigh like doing what's best for your patient, which is like assessing their pharynx but also like we didn't really understand like how lethal it was going to be so that was Yeah, that was that was kind of scary.

[Assistant] I think What kind of conversations did you have about this?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The time like with my coworkers?

[Assistant] Yeah, sure.

[User]
I think we were all so I think that there's a lot of like faith in our institution. I think I felt and my coworkers kind of felt like we could trust the hospital leadership, like they were going to do what they needed to do. And it was just kind of like this sit tight and like let them figure it out kind of thing.

Like, I think I mentioned, like, when they first made some measures, like no meetings, closing the gym, I think, or at least I was kind of like, I don't know, like that seems kind of kind of like a lot. But then just a couple of days passed, right? And the the cases were just like exploding like all across Europe and stuff.

And so I think then my attitude kind of changed about it. But yeah, kind of just waiting to see what the hospital was going to have us do. Um, and I have to say, like, I do feel like they acted appropriately, kind of like every step of the way. Like I, I do feel like my health was prioritized.

It was hard. It was really hard. Like I mentioned, all of these things that got put into place, like restricting patient movement and stuff. But I do think that they were making the right calls Okay.

[Assistant] So in the months between when you heard of it for the first time and then once the hospital started being more strict and making it more real for you.

[User] Yeah. Um.

[Assistant] Could you just talk about how you felt in that time period?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Before the wave hit, like when the lockdowns started. Yeah. Before that, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I yes, I remember like the weekend. So the meetings had had stopped and the employee gym had been closed, like they made those announcements and then the weekend before everything is shut down, I went to New Orleans for a bachelorette party and I remember being there and the streets were kind of empty, but I remember like being in bars and stuff and I was like, Is this safe?

Which is never something that would have crossed my mind before, right? Like, ever, ever. Like, you're at a bar. You're not like people are carrying viruses all the time, but you don't think about that when you're going out but I remember like being a little bit concerned about that, and that was like the weekend before. All of the lockdowns were not just oh my goodness, I'm just going to stand up.

I can keep talking, but gets bored easily.

[Assistant] You could also turn the camera off if you want. It's not an issue.

[User] Okay. I don't think if anything, I think she likes looking at the camera lens to feel like an adult.

[Assistant] Hey little man. You got an opinion about COVID?

[User] He’s a COVID baby, obviously. Well, yup.

[Assistant] Well, actually. So some of my friends had a COVID baby, and you know how Corona is crown in Spanish? So I tried to get them to name their baby Keter, which is crown in Hebrew. But they didn’t bite.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Okay. I don't think if anything, I think she likes looking at the camera lens to feel like an adult.

[Assistant] Hey little man. You got an opinion about COVID?

[User] He’s a COVID baby, obviously. Well, yup.

[Assistant] Well, actually. So some of my friends had a COVID baby, and you know how Corona is crown in Spanish? So I tried to get them to name their baby Keter, which is crown in Hebrew. But they didn’t bite.

[User] khkhkh.

[Assistant] The initials would have been KGB, too.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] He’s a COVID baby, obviously. Well, yup.

[Assistant] Well, actually. So some of my friends had a COVID baby, and you know how Corona is crown in Spanish? So I tried to get them to name their baby Keter, which is crown in Hebrew. But they didn’t bite.

[User] khkhkh.

[Assistant] The initials would have been KGB, too.

[User] Oh, baby.

[Assistant] If it was, it would have been OK. It was like a year or two ago.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] khkhkh.

[Assistant] The initials would have been KGB, too.

[User] Oh, baby.

[Assistant] If it was, it would have been OK. It was like a year or two ago.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] They weren’t biting. Um, OK, so you may have just answered this, but did you have a eureka moment when you realized how bad it would be?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, I was I was just talking to him.

[Assistant] Do you think the- you said the hospital saw this coming kind of and prepared?

[User]
That was kind of like that's what I heard like they were seeing what was going on in Wuhan and they were like and we're I think we benefit that we're large enough that it's like if we buy thousands of N95, even if it's overkill, we will probably use most of them or like we're a large enough institution that like we had the capital that they could do that because obviously it's really expensive.

But yeah, the sort of like rumor, I guess because I didn't hear from like the mouths of the administration, but the rumor I heard was that they were sort of paying close attention and like made a decision on an administrative level to like buy tons of masks and face shields and all that kind of stuff. And like we never experienced any shortages, which is kind of incredible.

I feel like it doesn't stop. I mean, especially my friends who are working in [...]. It sounded like it was horrible, like, you know, just a disaster with PPE. Um, so we felt really fortunate for that.

[Assistant] I think you had I mean, not that it matters for PPE shortage, but if you did have an extra few weeks before the wave hit you.

[User]
Yes, we did. Right, right. Yeah. So we were just sort of like watching what was happening in, like, New York mostly. Just like, oh, god. Yeah. So I think by the time it hit [...], as a whole, people were taking it more seriously because we had already seen what was happening in New York, but we were not like phase one in New York or in the US, you know?

So you didn't really have to like convince people at that point, I think, to take it seriously.

[Assistant] And what about your patients.