[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] You know, I don't really remember. I think that was I think there was we got down there and they weren't quite ready for us. They were the first group. Yeah. Yeah. So it took a while to get everything lined up. I think some of the volunteers had their jobs and their situations are good to go right at the outset, but I was not one of them. So there were not the bulk of the volunteers in this first group were had up on farms, knew about agriculture, and they were they were the agricultural contingent. And they were going to work in the Paraguayan Agricultural Extension Service and, you know, share their knowledge of US agricultural practices with the Paraguayans. And a smaller group was known as a university group. And, you know, we'd all just graduated from college and and we didn't know anything about agriculture, didn't know anything useful. So we were going to we were going to teach it at various levels. And I think just because of the academic calendar or whatever, I forgot what the reason was. But a number of university group folks, you know, had to hang around and it situation for a while before they really got going.

[Assistant] And you were one of those.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what did you do while you were to occupy yourself?

[User] Uh, I don't know. I don't remember. Killed a lot of time, I guess.

[Assistant] OK, but eventually you received an assignment.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] And what did you do while you were to occupy yourself?

[User] Uh, I don't know. I don't remember. Killed a lot of time, I guess.

[Assistant] OK, but eventually you received an assignment.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And what was that? Where was that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Uh, I don't know. I don't remember. Killed a lot of time, I guess.

[Assistant] OK, but eventually you received an assignment.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And what was that? Where was that?

[User] And in a town called Villarrica, which was.

[Assistant] And how do you spell that


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] And what was that? Where was that?

[User] And in a town called Villarrica, which was.

[Assistant] And how do you spell that

[User] V-I-L-L-A-R-R-I-C-A. Villarrica.

[Assistant] Just like it sounds. Um, what was the assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And in a town called Villarrica, which was.

[Assistant] And how do you spell that

[User] V-I-L-L-A-R-R-I-C-A. Villarrica.

[Assistant] Just like it sounds. Um, what was the assignment?

[User] I went there to, well AID had built a big school building kind of on the outskirts of town that was supposed to be a consolidated high school. And this was back in the days when in the US, anyway, consolidated high schools were thought to be more efficient and more of something, that kind of thing to do in the US at the time. So USAID was exporting this to the countries that are providing aid and doing things like it's project, which is to build this big a very nice school building in Billerica and then have that be the center for a unified school district at the secondary school level. So kids came from the surrounding area and some of them even even lived in Villarrica. So they, you know, didn’t just commute from their families in town, but rather came to Villarrica to live and go to this high school.

[Assistant] They boarded with a family or something?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I went there to, well AID had built a big school building kind of on the outskirts of town that was supposed to be a consolidated high school. And this was back in the days when in the US, anyway, consolidated high schools were thought to be more efficient and more of something, that kind of thing to do in the US at the time. So USAID was exporting this to the countries that are providing aid and doing things like it's project, which is to build this big a very nice school building in Billerica and then have that be the center for a unified school district at the secondary school level. So kids came from the surrounding area and some of them even even lived in Villarrica. So they, you know, didn’t just commute from their families in town, but rather came to Villarrica to live and go to this high school.

[Assistant] They boarded with a family or something?

[User] Well, a lot of them boarded where I lived. I lived in a it was denominated a hotel was actually more like a boarding house.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] There was a kid there who was going to this high school. And there were other hundreds of students who were not living right there, but also making the same sort of arrangements to go to this high school. And I was assigned there first as an English teacher, teaching English as a second language.

[Assistant] So tell me about now, did you have to find your own housing or was that arranged for you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, a lot of them boarded where I lived. I lived in a it was denominated a hotel was actually more like a boarding house.

[Assistant] OK.

[User] There was a kid there who was going to this high school. And there were other hundreds of students who were not living right there, but also making the same sort of arrangements to go to this high school. And I was assigned there first as an English teacher, teaching English as a second language.

[Assistant] So tell me about now, did you have to find your own housing or was that arranged for you?

[User] Well, I, uh. I ended up, when I first got to Villarrica, I stayed at this hotel, the name of which was Hotel Luduso, which is a guanine, a local Indian name, and it means something like the blue hills in the background or something like that. Had some colorful translation. And as I said, it's really more of a boarding house than a hotel. Typical Spanish architecture, rectangular shape around the courtyard.

[Assistant] Checking, making sure.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then physically, the classrooms are very nice. And I say this is a recent aid project. Uh, not a lot of bells and whistles I. At the time, Villarrica had only spotty electrical service, I think once the electricity was on from 6:00 at night till 10:00 at night or something like that, so it wasn't all day long and this was better than than the most towns and most towns had electrical service for two hours once a week, something like that. So Paraguay or Iberico was better off than most. But still there wasn't enough so that the usual things you would expect to find a secondary school like slide projectors, you know, certainly. And that was before computers, of course. But all that was not there. So what it amounted to was a building. I don't even remember whether it was wild for electricity. I imagine there must be some somewhere. And there was plumbing and that was it. That's what you got. That's blackboards and chalk. So the physical surroundings were you know, they were new and the construction quality was good and everything, but. But that was it. That's all it was just just kind of a roof and a classroom. We had teaching materials and I don't remember what they had for English as a second language, although I think I made a lot of a lot of it up myself later. Mimeograph machines or mimeographs things. And that's old technology. I'm sure my kids don't even know what I mean, but I do. Yeah.

[Assistant] Now, were there other volunteers teaching at the school?

[User] And not when I was there.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Yeah, I was there. I was the only American in the town.

[Assistant] Oh, you were the only American.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And not when I was there.

[Assistant] Oh, really?

[User] Yeah, I was there. I was the only American in the town.

[Assistant] Oh, you were the only American.

[User] I actually. That's not true. Was I was the only American Peace Corps volunteer who was a high missionary. Oh yes. And before her and before I had gotten there, there were a couple of Mormon missionaries who'd come there trying to trying to get converts to Mormonism. And people still talked about that. But they didn't talk about Mormonism. They talked about how well they played basketball. These are, you know, big tall guys and they impress everyone on the basketball team.

[Assistant] It's funny. And now what did you do in your your your time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Beats me. There it was. I got there and there it was.

[Assistant] You didn’t bring it with you?

[User] No, no. I can't take credit for that. But it was already there. It was a great big deal. And there were these tournaments going on and, uh, including tournaments. There was one tournament that you had a very high level that was held in the Areca and the American team was playing the team from some other time. I forget what for the championship or something. But that was that was a very big deal. And everybody went to see that it's kind of, you know, sort of like high school football in Texas. It was it was kind of the local entertainment.

[Assistant] I guess it it amazes me because I was in Jamaica. I was a volunteer from 90 to 92.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] You know, and that's so close to the United States and so many people, uh, Jamaicans immigrate to US and Canada so much. And basketball was just beginning to pass right there in 1990. And so I'm just amazed that in the sixties, somehow basketball got to parent way. So there's a story behind that somewhere.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no. I can't take credit for that. But it was already there. It was a great big deal. And there were these tournaments going on and, uh, including tournaments. There was one tournament that you had a very high level that was held in the Areca and the American team was playing the team from some other time. I forget what for the championship or something. But that was that was a very big deal. And everybody went to see that it's kind of, you know, sort of like high school football in Texas. It was it was kind of the local entertainment.

[Assistant] I guess it it amazes me because I was in Jamaica. I was a volunteer from 90 to 92.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] You know, and that's so close to the United States and so many people, uh, Jamaicans immigrate to US and Canada so much. And basketball was just beginning to pass right there in 1990. And so I'm just amazed that in the sixties, somehow basketball got to parent way. So there's a story behind that somewhere.

[User] I'm sure there is. I don't know how the story is over there

[Assistant] It's such an American sport, you know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] You know, and that's so close to the United States and so many people, uh, Jamaicans immigrate to US and Canada so much. And basketball was just beginning to pass right there in 1990. And so I'm just amazed that in the sixties, somehow basketball got to parent way. So there's a story behind that somewhere.

[User] I'm sure there is. I don't know how the story is over there

[Assistant] It's such an American sport, you know.

[User] Yeah, well, another thing that happened was that the the the competitors in the Harlem Globetrotters and there is a team out there like the Harlem Globetrotters, it wasn't it wasn't the Harlem Globetrotters or whatever this other team was, they came to Paraguay and put on an exhibition game.

[Assistant] While you were there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I'm sure there is. I don't know how the story is over there

[Assistant] It's such an American sport, you know.

[User] Yeah, well, another thing that happened was that the the the competitors in the Harlem Globetrotters and there is a team out there like the Harlem Globetrotters, it wasn't it wasn't the Harlem Globetrotters or whatever this other team was, they came to Paraguay and put on an exhibition game.

[Assistant] While you were there?

[User] I was there. I went to it. I was it was incredible. It was just the big event the whole town turned out, everybody.

[Assistant] But it was a US team?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, well, another thing that happened was that the the the competitors in the Harlem Globetrotters and there is a team out there like the Harlem Globetrotters, it wasn't it wasn't the Harlem Globetrotters or whatever this other team was, they came to Paraguay and put on an exhibition game.

[Assistant] While you were there?

[User] I was there. I went to it. I was it was incredible. It was just the big event the whole town turned out, everybody.

[Assistant] But it was a US team?

[User] Yes, kind of the counterpart to the Harlem Globetrotters.

[Assistant] Yeah. What a hoot. How did you spend your whole two years there on the same assignment or.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was there. I went to it. I was it was incredible. It was just the big event the whole town turned out, everybody.

[Assistant] But it was a US team?

[User] Yes, kind of the counterpart to the Harlem Globetrotters.

[Assistant] Yeah. What a hoot. How did you spend your whole two years there on the same assignment or.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You did. And what did you do during, I'm assuming they had some kind of a break, as you know, school break or like three months, like we do here.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, kind of the counterpart to the Harlem Globetrotters.

[Assistant] Yeah. What a hoot. How did you spend your whole two years there on the same assignment or.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You did. And what did you do during, I'm assuming they had some kind of a break, as you know, school break or like three months, like we do here.

[User] Yes, indeed.

[Assistant] What time of year was that break?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] You did. And what did you do during, I'm assuming they had some kind of a break, as you know, school break or like three months, like we do here.

[User] Yes, indeed.

[Assistant] What time of year was that break?

[User] It was their summertime, in the wintertime up here. And, yeah, they had they had pretty much the same academic calendar we do for a big, long break in the summer. And I did a fair amount of travel. And that was one thing that kids were volunteers were in a position to do. I think maybe a month at a time I forgot.

[Assistant] Did you travel out of the country to travel within the country?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, indeed.

[Assistant] What time of year was that break?

[User] It was their summertime, in the wintertime up here. And, yeah, they had they had pretty much the same academic calendar we do for a big, long break in the summer. And I did a fair amount of travel. And that was one thing that kids were volunteers were in a position to do. I think maybe a month at a time I forgot.

[Assistant] Did you travel out of the country to travel within the country?

[User] Yes. I went to Brazil on one trip, uh, Uruguay on another. Uruguay and Argentina and Chile on another trip.

[Assistant] Did you did you travel by yourself or did you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was their summertime, in the wintertime up here. And, yeah, they had they had pretty much the same academic calendar we do for a big, long break in the summer. And I did a fair amount of travel. And that was one thing that kids were volunteers were in a position to do. I think maybe a month at a time I forgot.

[Assistant] Did you travel out of the country to travel within the country?

[User] Yes. I went to Brazil on one trip, uh, Uruguay on another. Uruguay and Argentina and Chile on another trip.

[Assistant] Did you did you travel by yourself or did you?

[User] No, I went with a friend of mine.

[Assistant] Another Peace Corps volunteer?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I went to Brazil on one trip, uh, Uruguay on another. Uruguay and Argentina and Chile on another trip.

[Assistant] Did you did you travel by yourself or did you?

[User] No, I went with a friend of mine.

[Assistant] Another Peace Corps volunteer?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How did you find that your language training prepared you? Did I miss really?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I went with a friend of mine.

[Assistant] Another Peace Corps volunteer?

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How did you find that your language training prepared you? Did I miss really?

[User] Extremely well. There's there's only so much language you can learn in three months, obviously. But I think I don't know how I could have learned more than that. I did. And I got down there. My language was, uh, I think I you know, the Foreign Service has as a scale.

[Assistant] Right. One to five or something.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] How did you find that your language training prepared you? Did I miss really?

[User] Extremely well. There's there's only so much language you can learn in three months, obviously. But I think I don't know how I could have learned more than that. I did. And I got down there. My language was, uh, I think I you know, the Foreign Service has as a scale.

[Assistant] Right. One to five or something.

[User] And I think I was a two plus when I went down there, which means, you know, you can you can get along and you can you are going to start.

[Assistant] Right. You can get you can get fed and you can get transportation.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Extremely well. There's there's only so much language you can learn in three months, obviously. But I think I don't know how I could have learned more than that. I did. And I got down there. My language was, uh, I think I you know, the Foreign Service has as a scale.

[Assistant] Right. One to five or something.

[User] And I think I was a two plus when I went down there, which means, you know, you can you can get along and you can you are going to start.

[Assistant] Right. You can get you can get fed and you can get transportation.

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And carry on a sort of rudimentary conversation. But that's about it. And I think I was about a two plus when I went down there and that that was enough to get me going. Uh, but there's nothing like actually living there and actually knowing the people and, uh, which I, which I did and thoroughly enjoyed. I was just an immensely fun, stimulating experience to do this. And, uh, and a large part of that was was learning the language. I mean, that's the best way to learn is to, you know, get some preparation and go down there live with the language spoken all the time.

[Assistant] Right. Um, how did you like your assignment?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And I think I was a two plus when I went down there, which means, you know, you can you can get along and you can you are going to start.

[Assistant] Right. You can get you can get fed and you can get transportation.

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And carry on a sort of rudimentary conversation. But that's about it. And I think I was about a two plus when I went down there and that that was enough to get me going. Uh, but there's nothing like actually living there and actually knowing the people and, uh, which I, which I did and thoroughly enjoyed. I was just an immensely fun, stimulating experience to do this. And, uh, and a large part of that was was learning the language. I mean, that's the best way to learn is to, you know, get some preparation and go down there live with the language spoken all the time.

[Assistant] Right. Um, how did you like your assignment?

[User] Oh, I loved it. Yes. Yes. It was just a wonderful experience. And was it how you felt about Jamaica? But but but yeah. It was just a terrific experience.

[Assistant] Um, was it a mixed. So these were high school age, what we would consider high school age kids. And was it a mixed sex school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And carry on a sort of rudimentary conversation. But that's about it. And I think I was about a two plus when I went down there and that that was enough to get me going. Uh, but there's nothing like actually living there and actually knowing the people and, uh, which I, which I did and thoroughly enjoyed. I was just an immensely fun, stimulating experience to do this. And, uh, and a large part of that was was learning the language. I mean, that's the best way to learn is to, you know, get some preparation and go down there live with the language spoken all the time.

[Assistant] Right. Um, how did you like your assignment?

[User] Oh, I loved it. Yes. Yes. It was just a wonderful experience. And was it how you felt about Jamaica? But but but yeah. It was just a terrific experience.

[Assistant] Um, was it a mixed. So these were high school age, what we would consider high school age kids. And was it a mixed sex school?

[User] Yes, it was a high school, a coed school.

[Assistant] OK. So when did you finish up your tour?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I loved it. Yes. Yes. It was just a wonderful experience. And was it how you felt about Jamaica? But but but yeah. It was just a terrific experience.

[Assistant] Um, was it a mixed. So these were high school age, what we would consider high school age kids. And was it a mixed sex school?

[User] Yes, it was a high school, a coed school.

[Assistant] OK. So when did you finish up your tour?

[User] I, I, well I left to go to law school and that was in the fall of sixty eight, so I forget exactly that. But shortly before that.

[Assistant] What was the most difficult thing about your experience?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, it was a high school, a coed school.

[Assistant] OK. So when did you finish up your tour?

[User] I, I, well I left to go to law school and that was in the fall of sixty eight, so I forget exactly that. But shortly before that.

[Assistant] What was the most difficult thing about your experience?

[User]
Well, I have to preface that by saying that the apparently one group was uniquely fortunate, as opposed to I heard horror stories about groups that went to Africa. Uh. And and other places like where you get there and the car, the deck and sort of stacked against you from the get go. Well, the thing for Paraguay, one that the deck was stacked in favor of the volunteers from the get go.

I think culturally, the Latin American culture is it's easier to get used to that, I think it would be. And from what I've heard about the culture in Africa, it's a lot of the African countries. Paraguay was a very pro- American country to begin with. So, you know, you didn't have to overcome anti-Americanism and you didn't if you want to run in the streets, people who weren't, you know, looking daggers at you because they didn't like Americans or whatever it is that you didn't have the as I understand it, in some countries there, there's kind of a presumption that when you meet somebody that that person is not going to like you because you're an American. And so you have to kind of you have a barrier. Just at the outset, there was none of that. The Paraguayans were more predisposed to like Americans. They're good people anyway. I mean, they, uh. If I don't know if you can generalize, but I will go out on a limb and say that there's something about a difficult history and in dealing with poverty and dealing with political repression, that probably, you know,

[Assistant] I guess they still do.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, it's turned itself into a democracy. Believe it or not. And that's one of the reasons, one of the or the reason why apparently one didn't go down there until 1966, which is five years after the Peace Corps started, was the government. It was the last remaining strong man military dictatorship in Latin America. And Sargent Shriver just did not want to send the Peace Corps because the government was so terrible. And there were horror stories that I heard about people that the ruling party didn't like being tortured to death. They would have their arms tied to one jeep and their legs tied to the Jeep. And the jeeps will drive off in different directions, you know, horrible stories like that. So they had that to deal with. They had to weigh in and a burst of romanticism or something in the 80s and 70s and taken on Argentina, Brazil and Bolivia and the Chacko war, I think it was called. I know that was something else, that the war, the triple alliance, little Paraguay taking on these three huge countries.

[Assistant] So it was Brazil?

[User] Yes, Brazil, good God, how can you take on Brazil?

[Assistant] And who else was it?

[User] Bolivia and Argentina.

[Assistant] Oh, that doesn't seem like a very smart move geographically speaking!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, Brazil, good God, how can you take on Brazil?

[Assistant] And who else was it?

[User] Bolivia and Argentina.

[Assistant] Oh, that doesn't seem like a very smart move geographically speaking!

[User] It was a stupid move. The result was either men got killed off. They lost the war, of course. And when I was there, there were the ratio of women to men. Just because of this war was something like six or seven to one.

[Assistant] Oh, even a hundred years. Yes, 90 years later.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Bolivia and Argentina.

[Assistant] Oh, that doesn't seem like a very smart move geographically speaking!

[User] It was a stupid move. The result was either men got killed off. They lost the war, of course. And when I was there, there were the ratio of women to men. Just because of this war was something like six or seven to one.

[Assistant] Oh, even a hundred years. Yes, 90 years later.

[User] Yes, yes, yes. And so they had a very tough history and a generally you can find, the people who survived that kind of difficulty tend to be very, you know, very, very nice people, very sane people. The slightest movement gets, if you're not that way, you just get the difficult to get rid of. So.

[Assistant] I think also they don't sweat the small stuff, you know, they don't get excited. Over things that we Americans get.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was a stupid move. The result was either men got killed off. They lost the war, of course. And when I was there, there were the ratio of women to men. Just because of this war was something like six or seven to one.

[Assistant] Oh, even a hundred years. Yes, 90 years later.

[User] Yes, yes, yes. And so they had a very tough history and a generally you can find, the people who survived that kind of difficulty tend to be very, you know, very, very nice people, very sane people. The slightest movement gets, if you're not that way, you just get the difficult to get rid of. So.

[Assistant] I think also they don't sweat the small stuff, you know, they don't get excited. Over things that we Americans get.

[User] I think a lot of the reason that it was such a great place for American volunteers was was the Spanish culture. So family centered. I mean, the good things about the stability of this small town where I was, where, you know, a large part, just part of Latin culture, very kid oriented, you know, long term friendships are valued highly. Just kind of, you know, the good things about Spanish culture were all there and. And that made it very easy for an American public school volunteer to go on.

[Assistant] How big was the town?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, yes, yes. And so they had a very tough history and a generally you can find, the people who survived that kind of difficulty tend to be very, you know, very, very nice people, very sane people. The slightest movement gets, if you're not that way, you just get the difficult to get rid of. So.

[Assistant] I think also they don't sweat the small stuff, you know, they don't get excited. Over things that we Americans get.

[User] I think a lot of the reason that it was such a great place for American volunteers was was the Spanish culture. So family centered. I mean, the good things about the stability of this small town where I was, where, you know, a large part, just part of Latin culture, very kid oriented, you know, long term friendships are valued highly. Just kind of, you know, the good things about Spanish culture were all there and. And that made it very easy for an American public school volunteer to go on.

[Assistant] How big was the town?

[User] About 16,000 population.

[Assistant] Really small town. So you left and went off to law school. Where did you go to law school?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I think a lot of the reason that it was such a great place for American volunteers was was the Spanish culture. So family centered. I mean, the good things about the stability of this small town where I was, where, you know, a large part, just part of Latin culture, very kid oriented, you know, long term friendships are valued highly. Just kind of, you know, the good things about Spanish culture were all there and. And that made it very easy for an American public school volunteer to go on.

[Assistant] How big was the town?

[User] About 16,000 population.

[Assistant] Really small town. So you left and went off to law school. Where did you go to law school?

[User] Columbia.

[Assistant] One of the things that they wanted us to ask is to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps, which is one to provide technical assistance, two to help promote better understanding of Americans, and to help promote better understanding of other people by Americans.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] About 16,000 population.

[Assistant] Really small town. So you left and went off to law school. Where did you go to law school?

[User] Columbia.

[Assistant] One of the things that they wanted us to ask is to evaluate your service in light of the three goals of the Peace Corps, which is one to provide technical assistance, two to help promote better understanding of Americans, and to help promote better understanding of other people by Americans.

[User] Well, I. I have to say, of course, you know, I'm biased and have an emotional investment in the desert. But I have to say that that everything I saw, including my own personal service, fulfilled those goals extremely well. Uh, I think as far as the first the first question, you know, how much technology transfer, so to speak, or how much technically, how much good did I do there? Uh, I think well, I was trained, as I say, I was trained to teach English as a second language. And and I kind of my stock explanation for why the Peace Corps ought to be doing that is in English as a second language is more valuable than to Paraguayans and say French as a second language would be to Americans. And that it's and this is more obvious now than it was, say, 20 years ago. But English is now the international language. And if you have language skills in English, you can you can market yourself to international companies or your job opportunities. Just sort of open up. Um, I, I did some other things, too. When I after I'd been there maybe eight months or a year, it became clear that they also needed math and science education. And it turned out it took me about a year to figure this out, the National University that since, you know, doesn't even have a math department, you're so extraordinary. They certainly don't have a physics department. And I happen to know something about both of those subjects. So so I started teacher training programs to, uh, to try to raise the level of math and science instruction.

[Assistant] Did they have classes at the high school level and those in math?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Sure. I mean, how could that not and what what better way to promote those goals and then go live with the people and try to help them? And they're the the locals are. Well, they had sort of varying reactions. The first reaction to and you know, again, I'm talking as the first Peace Corps volunteer to go to the Villarrica and the subsequent ones, I don't know, again, talk about their experience. But the reaction I got was, first of all, oh, my God, we're so flattered. Here's an American fresh out of college coming down here to devote two years to to help us out. You know, geez, I mean, it was it was sort of a flattering thing for them or from their point of view. And the second reaction was, OK, this can't be right. This guy is really CIA. And I got an awful lot of that. Uh, and actually, I have to say, one thing they wanted me to do before I left was to write up a memo for the file about what I had learned about sort of who's who in Villarrica and the relationships.

[Assistant] Oh, the Peace Corps asked you this.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Interesting.

[User] Yes. I thought was very interesting after telling and telling those folks, no, I'm not CIA for two years. I didn't write the memo, but I you know, I imagine other volunteers got asked to write memos and some of them probably did. So maybe there is a CIA connection. And if there is, I don't know about it. And I would think that would be a terrible, terrible thing if there is a CIA connection, because if the Peace Corps is not credible, then it's nothing. And that's, you know, what else could it possibly do besides being down there credibly doing what it said it's going to do.

[Assistant] Well, and I just have to tell you that you're the first person who has told me that they were asked to do that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Interesting.

[User] Yes. I thought was very interesting after telling and telling those folks, no, I'm not CIA for two years. I didn't write the memo, but I you know, I imagine other volunteers got asked to write memos and some of them probably did. So maybe there is a CIA connection. And if there is, I don't know about it. And I would think that would be a terrible, terrible thing if there is a CIA connection, because if the Peace Corps is not credible, then it's nothing. And that's, you know, what else could it possibly do besides being down there credibly doing what it said it's going to do.

[Assistant] Well, and I just have to tell you that you're the first person who has told me that they were asked to do that.

[User] Really?

[Assistant] Yeah. I just it may have been some it may have been an effort by the Peace Corps also to help, you’re group one.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I thought was very interesting after telling and telling those folks, no, I'm not CIA for two years. I didn't write the memo, but I you know, I imagine other volunteers got asked to write memos and some of them probably did. So maybe there is a CIA connection. And if there is, I don't know about it. And I would think that would be a terrible, terrible thing if there is a CIA connection, because if the Peace Corps is not credible, then it's nothing. And that's, you know, what else could it possibly do besides being down there credibly doing what it said it's going to do.

[Assistant] Well, and I just have to tell you that you're the first person who has told me that they were asked to do that.

[User] Really?

[Assistant] Yeah. I just it may have been some it may have been an effort by the Peace Corps also to help, you’re group one.

[User] And so that's what they said. Yeah. That's what they said. And I hope it was true. Yeah.

[Assistant] But I said I did want to assure you that not from any other Peace Corps in the 60s.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It's the only program that works on a one on one individual level. So. Yeah, yeah, I totally believe that.

[Assistant] Have you been back to Paraguay since you left?

[User] No, I corresponded for a while with the folks at the hotel. In fact, I got, this is back in the day of a manual typewriter, like a manual typewriter to go out to law school with and had it modified. So it had an enye, an accent, and things like that instead of a few letters and they wrote back. This went on for a while and eventually petered out, but no way back.

[Assistant] How has your experience affected your life after that service?

[User] Uh. I don't know that it's you know, as opposed to how when my wife is gone, if I had not been in the past or so hypothetical, it's really hard to say. But it's you know, it's like I mean, you sort of make some assumptions here that that are sort of self evidently true. It's kind of like the 19th century. The Victorian idea of the ennobling effects of travel go to a foreign land and you see the sights and you learn something about the culture. And that's got to be good. And I think you can say the same thing about these. And so it's got to be good. You know exactly why I'm not sure I could teach.

[Assistant] Is there anything else you'd like to add?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Was he the commander? Was Donn [F.] Eisele on that one?

[Assistant] Don Eisele was in Apollo 7 with Walter Schirra.

[User] Okay. Well, anyway. Oh, I know, [R. Walter] Cunningham was aboard, right? On [Apollo] 9.

[Assistant] Cunningham was on [Apollo] 7 also.

[User] He was on 7.

[Assistant] Nine, I think, was McDivitt, [Russell L. “Rusty”] Schweikart, and [David R.] Scott. I know Rusty Schweikart was on it.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Anyway, the point is that that particular—that flight of Apollo 9, by chance, got us photographs which led to a concept and, later on, a forecasting technique that not only worked along the Texas Gulf Coast, we later applied it to the shrimp fishery in Venezuela, in the Gulf of Guinea off Africa, to the shrimp fishery along the Gulf of Kutch coast in northwest India, and to the Gulf of Carpenteria in Australia. They all had the same kind of wind/lagoonal situations, and it worked in all cases.

[Assistant] That really shows the value of—

[User] We never would have done it if we didn't have the space stuff. Well, that made everybody happy. Didn't make the biologists happy, but made all the space guys happy.\n\n All right. Now where are we?

[Assistant] As Apollo was moving on in the sixties, NASA began hiring scientist astronauts.

[User] Oh, yes, that's true.

[Assistant] Were you involved at all with—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, they knew it was there. I mean, you know, historically they knew it was there, but, "There's a picture of it. Let's go find it."

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] All right. Where are we? Well, okay. So now we're ready to go to Shuttle, and that may be time to take a break and come back.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] When I'm in Houston next time or whatever.

[Assistant] That would work.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All right. Where are we? Well, okay. So now we're ready to go to Shuttle, and that may be time to take a break and come back.

[Assistant] Sure.

[User] When I'm in Houston next time or whatever.

[Assistant] That would work.

[User] Whatever you guys say. I mean, you know. Summer's run out of tape.

[Assistant]
Oh, no, they haven't run out of tape. I just had that much left on that tape.

So it's that one tape. We do have more, so it's completely up to you. We can either go a little longer today, although it's getting—


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] When I'm in Houston next time or whatever.

[Assistant] That would work.

[User] Whatever you guys say. I mean, you know. Summer's run out of tape.

[Assistant]
Oh, no, they haven't run out of tape. I just had that much left on that tape.

So it's that one tape. We do have more, so it's completely up to you. We can either go a little longer today, although it's getting—

[User]
Did you show her all the pictures that you talked about so far?

No, I don't have them all.

[Assistant] Show us the pictures up through Apollo-Soyuz and then we can save all the Shuttle stuff for later, do that all at one time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Whatever you guys say. I mean, you know. Summer's run out of tape.

[Assistant]
Oh, no, they haven't run out of tape. I just had that much left on that tape.

So it's that one tape. We do have more, so it's completely up to you. We can either go a little longer today, although it's getting—

[User]
Did you show her all the pictures that you talked about so far?

No, I don't have them all.

[Assistant] Show us the pictures up through Apollo-Soyuz and then we can save all the Shuttle stuff for later, do that all at one time.

[User] Do the Shuttle stuff all at one time. All right. Let's, therefore, do— [Tape recorder turned off.]

[Assistant] Did you finish it [referring to the book\n\n Dragonfly\n\n ]?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So that wiped me out.

[Assistant] Hopefully that will be the last time that any of us have to endure that, and we'll all have good memories of all the work that you've put into working with the astronauts.

[User] I have good memories, you know. I flew in World War II and I lost people, friends then, you know. But, you know, the thing was, I don't think it was necessary. I don't think anybody thinks it was necessary. I mean, when you're flying in combat, that's different. People are shooting at you and you're shooting at them. I mean, that's kind of the name of the game. But in this case, if somebody wanted them to go and—

[Assistant] Hopefully we have learned from that and can move forward.

[User]
It's like Jeannie [Stevenson] and I were down at the STS-88 launch last December. We'd stayed up all night and been to a couple of the crews' families parties. We got our hotel late, so our hotel was in Daytona Beach, you know. [Laughter] So we got back in time to get out there, to be driven out to the VIP stand.

It was a night launch.

They were to go off about four in the morning.

Three-something.

Three-fifty-nine or something like that.

And when you start out at eleven o'clock driving from Daytona, you know, and we were up for a four o'clock launch.

[Assistant]
Wow.

But it must have been beautiful to watch the beginning of a whole new era.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
Whatever it was, was easily fixed, and they launched the next day. Pardon?

Perfectly.

Perfectly.

That was a perfect flight.

And the next day we were up in Savannah, Georgia, because my old bomb group was holding a reunion and I hadn't seen those guys in 500 years, so I'd better see them.

[Assistant] That's always nice to be able to get back together with old comrades.

[User] Only knew one guy.

[Assistant] Really.

[User] Yes. Fifty years. But it's strange, you know, he was my waist gunner.

[Assistant] What do you know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I knew he was going to be there, but I hadn't seen him since he was a little kid and I was a little kid. He came walking across the room and I knew him.

[Assistant] Right away?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] That's great.

[User] Well, that's enough stories.

[Assistant] Thank you for spending all this time with us and showing us pictures.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User]
That's what it is, basically. But it's fun. SIMPSON Great. Well, now let's think back. I want you to think back about, you know, when you were thinking about going into, the year before you, when you when you were thinking about going into the Peace Corps way back.

Way, way back.

[Assistant] Way, way back in 1962 or ‘61. So how did you happen to get interested in the Peace Corps?

[User] Oh well uh yes. Uh Wayne, who is now my husband, who was then my sort-of boyfriend, he and I were attending a meeting at which Sargent Shriver was speaking. Whoa, that did it. We happened to be sitting next to each other, just happened to be because we were in a group of youth listening to Sargent Shriver. And we looked at each other and yeah, we both said, hey, we want to do that. But it didn't happen right away, but it happened very soon after that, that we did make our application.

[Assistant] When was that? When were you in that meeting?

[User] Oh, that was in March of ’62, March of ‘62, and we joined the program in July of ‘62. Isn’t that when our training started? Or June? The summer of ’62 our training started. It happened that fast, but there was no question.

[Assistant] Did you, what were you doing? Were you in college then or what were you doing at the time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh well uh yes. Uh Wayne, who is now my husband, who was then my sort-of boyfriend, he and I were attending a meeting at which Sargent Shriver was speaking. Whoa, that did it. We happened to be sitting next to each other, just happened to be because we were in a group of youth listening to Sargent Shriver. And we looked at each other and yeah, we both said, hey, we want to do that. But it didn't happen right away, but it happened very soon after that, that we did make our application.

[Assistant] When was that? When were you in that meeting?

[User] Oh, that was in March of ’62, March of ‘62, and we joined the program in July of ‘62. Isn’t that when our training started? Or June? The summer of ’62 our training started. It happened that fast, but there was no question.

[Assistant] Did you, what were you doing? Were you in college then or what were you doing at the time?

[User] Yes. Both of us were in college at separate universities actually. And so when, when I did join the Peace Corps I had only finished my junior year but I didn't want to wait. So and at that time, they accepted even high school graduates. They didn't require a college degree at that time in 1962.

[Assistant] Yeah, but where were you studying?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, that was in March of ’62, March of ‘62, and we joined the program in July of ‘62. Isn’t that when our training started? Or June? The summer of ’62 our training started. It happened that fast, but there was no question.

[Assistant] Did you, what were you doing? Were you in college then or what were you doing at the time?

[User] Yes. Both of us were in college at separate universities actually. And so when, when I did join the Peace Corps I had only finished my junior year but I didn't want to wait. So and at that time, they accepted even high school graduates. They didn't require a college degree at that time in 1962.

[Assistant] Yeah, but where were you studying?

[User] I was studying at North Dakota State University, Fargo, North Dakota. Home economics education was my major.

[Assistant] OK, and was, uh, that were you living in in the Dakotas as well?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. Both of us were in college at separate universities actually. And so when, when I did join the Peace Corps I had only finished my junior year but I didn't want to wait. So and at that time, they accepted even high school graduates. They didn't require a college degree at that time in 1962.

[Assistant] Yeah, but where were you studying?

[User] I was studying at North Dakota State University, Fargo, North Dakota. Home economics education was my major.

[Assistant] OK, and was, uh, that were you living in in the Dakotas as well?

[User] Yeah. Yes.

[Assistant] So then you accept, you join the Peace Corps. Then what happened? How did you get ready? What’d your family think?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was studying at North Dakota State University, Fargo, North Dakota. Home economics education was my major.

[Assistant] OK, and was, uh, that were you living in in the Dakotas as well?

[User] Yeah. Yes.

[Assistant] So then you accept, you join the Peace Corps. Then what happened? How did you get ready? What’d your family think?

[User] Well, I have quite liberal or I had quite liberal minded parents. My dad was very proud of me, actually. But then when I wrote letters home during our training, I think they all began to wonder why we were rappelling down cliffs and swimming around in the ocean with our hands tied behind our back. What did that have to do with Peace Corps? And to tell you the truth, I think some of us were wondering the same thing.

[Assistant] Yeah, that Outward Bound training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah. Yes.

[Assistant] So then you accept, you join the Peace Corps. Then what happened? How did you get ready? What’d your family think?

[User] Well, I have quite liberal or I had quite liberal minded parents. My dad was very proud of me, actually. But then when I wrote letters home during our training, I think they all began to wonder why we were rappelling down cliffs and swimming around in the ocean with our hands tied behind our back. What did that have to do with Peace Corps? And to tell you the truth, I think some of us were wondering the same thing.

[Assistant] Yeah, that Outward Bound training.

[User] But we survived it. And we were pretty proud of ourselves, weren’t we?

[Assistant] What did you have to do yourself to get ready to go in the Peace Corps?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I have quite liberal or I had quite liberal minded parents. My dad was very proud of me, actually. But then when I wrote letters home during our training, I think they all began to wonder why we were rappelling down cliffs and swimming around in the ocean with our hands tied behind our back. What did that have to do with Peace Corps? And to tell you the truth, I think some of us were wondering the same thing.

[Assistant] Yeah, that Outward Bound training.

[User] But we survived it. And we were pretty proud of ourselves, weren’t we?

[Assistant] What did you have to do yourself to get ready to go in the Peace Corps?

[User] Throw a few things in my suitcase and go. After all the applications and taking the tests that were required for acceptance.

[Assistant] Where did you take your test?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But we survived it. And we were pretty proud of ourselves, weren’t we?

[Assistant] What did you have to do yourself to get ready to go in the Peace Corps?

[User] Throw a few things in my suitcase and go. After all the applications and taking the tests that were required for acceptance.

[Assistant] Where did you take your test?

[User] In Fargo, North Dakota.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's great. I took mine in Salt Lake City. Ok, so when you go out to training, let's just talk about your impression, what you thought about the training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Throw a few things in my suitcase and go. After all the applications and taking the tests that were required for acceptance.

[Assistant] Where did you take your test?

[User] In Fargo, North Dakota.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's great. I took mine in Salt Lake City. Ok, so when you go out to training, let's just talk about your impression, what you thought about the training.

[User] Well, we trained first of all in the Maricopa, what they called Indian community, didn't they use that phrase then? And I thought it was a great fit, you know, because we got to work with the women there. We got to visit different homes of the people living, the Maricopa people. And I think we had a great, um, we were trained with social workers. Wasn't that our official title?

[Assistant] Community development I think is what they called it. Which is one of those ambiguous terms that fits a lot of things.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] In Fargo, North Dakota.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's great. I took mine in Salt Lake City. Ok, so when you go out to training, let's just talk about your impression, what you thought about the training.

[User] Well, we trained first of all in the Maricopa, what they called Indian community, didn't they use that phrase then? And I thought it was a great fit, you know, because we got to work with the women there. We got to visit different homes of the people living, the Maricopa people. And I think we had a great, um, we were trained with social workers. Wasn't that our official title?

[Assistant] Community development I think is what they called it. Which is one of those ambiguous terms that fits a lot of things.

[User] But our instructor, our female instructor, I thought was very, very knowledgeable.

[Assistant] Who was it that you worked with? Do you remember?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, we trained first of all in the Maricopa, what they called Indian community, didn't they use that phrase then? And I thought it was a great fit, you know, because we got to work with the women there. We got to visit different homes of the people living, the Maricopa people. And I think we had a great, um, we were trained with social workers. Wasn't that our official title?

[Assistant] Community development I think is what they called it. Which is one of those ambiguous terms that fits a lot of things.

[User] But our instructor, our female instructor, I thought was very, very knowledgeable.

[Assistant] Who was it that you worked with? Do you remember?

[User] Oh, I don't remember her name. I think she was a public health nurse though, wasn’t she?

[Assistant] Yeah, we had one who was a public health nurse.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But our instructor, our female instructor, I thought was very, very knowledgeable.

[Assistant] Who was it that you worked with? Do you remember?

[User] Oh, I don't remember her name. I think she was a public health nurse though, wasn’t she?

[Assistant] Yeah, we had one who was a public health nurse.

[User] We were doing the same thing.

[Assistant] And I know then they had a midwife that I was working with some, but she then when she left that group and subsequently went to a different place. Yeah, so what all did you do in training?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I don't remember her name. I think she was a public health nurse though, wasn’t she?

[Assistant] Yeah, we had one who was a public health nurse.

[User] We were doing the same thing.

[Assistant] And I know then they had a midwife that I was working with some, but she then when she left that group and subsequently went to a different place. Yeah, so what all did you do in training?

[User] We worked with the Maricopa women. In food preparation, we made food for our whole training group. But that wasn't the real point. The real point was to get us socializing with them, etcetera. And then we did go to different hospitals in the area and visit the homes in the area. It was just sort of getting us used to learning how to, maybe not interview, but keeping our getting our eyes and ears open to the situation around us, which might be different from how we were raised, how we grew up. So it wasn't a formal training. I mean, we didn't take any examinations or anything like that. It was just sort of an eye-opening experience I thought.

[Assistant] What did you think of the language training and the various studies and all those?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We were doing the same thing.

[Assistant] And I know then they had a midwife that I was working with some, but she then when she left that group and subsequently went to a different place. Yeah, so what all did you do in training?

[User] We worked with the Maricopa women. In food preparation, we made food for our whole training group. But that wasn't the real point. The real point was to get us socializing with them, etcetera. And then we did go to different hospitals in the area and visit the homes in the area. It was just sort of getting us used to learning how to, maybe not interview, but keeping our getting our eyes and ears open to the situation around us, which might be different from how we were raised, how we grew up. So it wasn't a formal training. I mean, we didn't take any examinations or anything like that. It was just sort of an eye-opening experience I thought.

[Assistant] What did you think of the language training and the various studies and all those?

[User] Right, the language training. Oh, my goodness. Uh, the philosophy then was to hear and repeat, which I didn't appreciate at all. I like to see things, you know, and we weren't really allowed to take notes, if I remember right, during language training. So I found that quite frustrating because it was hard for me to measure my progress and it was hard for me to go back and prepare for the next class. Because if you didn't remember something, well, that was the end of that. So, yeah, I thought language training. And then oftentimes our classes were like early in the morning when most of us weren’t completely awake even

[Assistant] Or late at night.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We worked with the Maricopa women. In food preparation, we made food for our whole training group. But that wasn't the real point. The real point was to get us socializing with them, etcetera. And then we did go to different hospitals in the area and visit the homes in the area. It was just sort of getting us used to learning how to, maybe not interview, but keeping our getting our eyes and ears open to the situation around us, which might be different from how we were raised, how we grew up. So it wasn't a formal training. I mean, we didn't take any examinations or anything like that. It was just sort of an eye-opening experience I thought.

[Assistant] What did you think of the language training and the various studies and all those?

[User] Right, the language training. Oh, my goodness. Uh, the philosophy then was to hear and repeat, which I didn't appreciate at all. I like to see things, you know, and we weren't really allowed to take notes, if I remember right, during language training. So I found that quite frustrating because it was hard for me to measure my progress and it was hard for me to go back and prepare for the next class. Because if you didn't remember something, well, that was the end of that. So, yeah, I thought language training. And then oftentimes our classes were like early in the morning when most of us weren’t completely awake even

[Assistant] Or late at night.

[User] Or late at night. We had horrendous hours.

[Assistant] What did you think of those hours, getting up at 3:00 in the morning so we could go out and run our mile before breakfast?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right, the language training. Oh, my goodness. Uh, the philosophy then was to hear and repeat, which I didn't appreciate at all. I like to see things, you know, and we weren't really allowed to take notes, if I remember right, during language training. So I found that quite frustrating because it was hard for me to measure my progress and it was hard for me to go back and prepare for the next class. Because if you didn't remember something, well, that was the end of that. So, yeah, I thought language training. And then oftentimes our classes were like early in the morning when most of us weren’t completely awake even

[Assistant] Or late at night.

[User] Or late at night. We had horrendous hours.

[Assistant] What did you think of those hours, getting up at 3:00 in the morning so we could go out and run our mile before breakfast?

[User] Well, I think they could identify the people who were very serious about being in the Peace Corps and could do that kind of schedule. I don't know how wise it was to exhaust ourselves like that, could be an interesting study. I don't know.

[Assistant] I don't think they do that anymore quite the same way.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Or late at night. We had horrendous hours.

[Assistant] What did you think of those hours, getting up at 3:00 in the morning so we could go out and run our mile before breakfast?

[User] Well, I think they could identify the people who were very serious about being in the Peace Corps and could do that kind of schedule. I don't know how wise it was to exhaust ourselves like that, could be an interesting study. I don't know.

[Assistant] I don't think they do that anymore quite the same way.

[User] No, they don't. And that's a good thing.

[Assistant] So what did you think of the overall training experience and the like the other volunteers that you met there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Well, I think they could identify the people who were very serious about being in the Peace Corps and could do that kind of schedule. I don't know how wise it was to exhaust ourselves like that, could be an interesting study. I don't know.

[Assistant] I don't think they do that anymore quite the same way.

[User] No, they don't. And that's a good thing.

[Assistant] So what did you think of the overall training experience and the like the other volunteers that you met there?

[User] Um, well, um, I thought it was good, although the one thing that bothered me a lot was we were asked to evaluate each other all the time. And I didn't feel that was my place to do that. I didn't like that part of it. But we certainly I think I learned I think I surprised myself by being able to do more physically than I thought I would ever be able to do. And I guess that's partly what it was all about too, you know, self-confidence. Once you know you can do something that you didn't think you can do, you tend to try a little harder and reach out a little further. I think maybe that was part of the whole process with the program.

[Assistant] That’s the Outward Bound philosophy. And they were trying, I think, to incorporate that at least in Puerto Rico. So, OK, so we had, uh, what was your overall impression of the training period and the group? Did you feel, had you gotten to know a lot of the people or?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, they don't. And that's a good thing.

[Assistant] So what did you think of the overall training experience and the like the other volunteers that you met there?

[User] Um, well, um, I thought it was good, although the one thing that bothered me a lot was we were asked to evaluate each other all the time. And I didn't feel that was my place to do that. I didn't like that part of it. But we certainly I think I learned I think I surprised myself by being able to do more physically than I thought I would ever be able to do. And I guess that's partly what it was all about too, you know, self-confidence. Once you know you can do something that you didn't think you can do, you tend to try a little harder and reach out a little further. I think maybe that was part of the whole process with the program.

[Assistant] That’s the Outward Bound philosophy. And they were trying, I think, to incorporate that at least in Puerto Rico. So, OK, so we had, uh, what was your overall impression of the training period and the group? Did you feel, had you gotten to know a lot of the people or?

[User] Oh, yeah, our group was great. I enjoyed our group very much. And the whole experience. Except for the negatives that I've just stated. I think it was a great group. It was fun. I've been reading just recently reading the letters I'd written to my parents during that time and that sort of refreshed my memory and they were all positive.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK, so now the next thing that we were doing was we went to Puerto Rico. Do you remember that trip?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, um, I thought it was good, although the one thing that bothered me a lot was we were asked to evaluate each other all the time. And I didn't feel that was my place to do that. I didn't like that part of it. But we certainly I think I learned I think I surprised myself by being able to do more physically than I thought I would ever be able to do. And I guess that's partly what it was all about too, you know, self-confidence. Once you know you can do something that you didn't think you can do, you tend to try a little harder and reach out a little further. I think maybe that was part of the whole process with the program.

[Assistant] That’s the Outward Bound philosophy. And they were trying, I think, to incorporate that at least in Puerto Rico. So, OK, so we had, uh, what was your overall impression of the training period and the group? Did you feel, had you gotten to know a lot of the people or?

[User] Oh, yeah, our group was great. I enjoyed our group very much. And the whole experience. Except for the negatives that I've just stated. I think it was a great group. It was fun. I've been reading just recently reading the letters I'd written to my parents during that time and that sort of refreshed my memory and they were all positive.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK, so now the next thing that we were doing was we went to Puerto Rico. Do you remember that trip?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Can you talk a little bit about it, about the trip and then getting to Camp Crozier?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, yeah, our group was great. I enjoyed our group very much. And the whole experience. Except for the negatives that I've just stated. I think it was a great group. It was fun. I've been reading just recently reading the letters I'd written to my parents during that time and that sort of refreshed my memory and they were all positive.

[Assistant] Yeah. OK, so now the next thing that we were doing was we went to Puerto Rico. Do you remember that trip?

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Can you talk a little bit about it, about the trip and then getting to Camp Crozier?

[User] Um, well, I don't remember so much. I remember being in.

[Assistant] Had you flown before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh yes.

[Assistant] Can you talk a little bit about it, about the trip and then getting to Camp Crozier?

[User] Um, well, I don't remember so much. I remember being in.

[Assistant] Had you flown before?

[User] Yes, I had flown before. So that part doesn't stick in my mind. I remember being in the bus and getting car sick because we were jammed. So many people in a small, well, it wasn't a bus, mini bus or even many of them. And then seeing the place where we were going to live at Camp Crozier. That was my first experience with geckos that I considered to be lizards who I thought sure would crawl into my bed when I wasn’t looking but.

[Assistant] You weren’t one of the ones that found the tarantulas?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, well, I don't remember so much. I remember being in.

[Assistant] Had you flown before?

[User] Yes, I had flown before. So that part doesn't stick in my mind. I remember being in the bus and getting car sick because we were jammed. So many people in a small, well, it wasn't a bus, mini bus or even many of them. And then seeing the place where we were going to live at Camp Crozier. That was my first experience with geckos that I considered to be lizards who I thought sure would crawl into my bed when I wasn’t looking but.

[Assistant] You weren’t one of the ones that found the tarantulas?

[User] No, I never did find the tarantulas.

[Assistant] What did you think of tent city?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I had flown before. So that part doesn't stick in my mind. I remember being in the bus and getting car sick because we were jammed. So many people in a small, well, it wasn't a bus, mini bus or even many of them. And then seeing the place where we were going to live at Camp Crozier. That was my first experience with geckos that I considered to be lizards who I thought sure would crawl into my bed when I wasn’t looking but.

[Assistant] You weren’t one of the ones that found the tarantulas?

[User] No, I never did find the tarantulas.

[Assistant] What did you think of tent city?

[User] Yes, well, it was a good thing because it was raining so much of the time. In my letters that I'd written to my parents that I just read, I was talking about the rain and how we would wash our clothes by hand, but they would never get dry on the clothesline because it was raining so much.

[Assistant] Which was a big change from the Arizona desert.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I never did find the tarantulas.

[Assistant] What did you think of tent city?

[User] Yes, well, it was a good thing because it was raining so much of the time. In my letters that I'd written to my parents that I just read, I was talking about the rain and how we would wash our clothes by hand, but they would never get dry on the clothesline because it was raining so much.

[Assistant] Which was a big change from the Arizona desert.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] So what did you think of our training in Puerto Rico?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, well, it was a good thing because it was raining so much of the time. In my letters that I'd written to my parents that I just read, I was talking about the rain and how we would wash our clothes by hand, but they would never get dry on the clothesline because it was raining so much.

[Assistant] Which was a big change from the Arizona desert.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] So what did you think of our training in Puerto Rico?

[User] I thought that was a little over the top. I don't think we really needed to rappel down a cliff to prove ourselves, but it did.

[Assistant] I never thought I'd ever rappel down a dam.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Exactly.

[Assistant] So what did you think of our training in Puerto Rico?

[User] I thought that was a little over the top. I don't think we really needed to rappel down a cliff to prove ourselves, but it did.

[Assistant] I never thought I'd ever rappel down a dam.

[User] Me neither. And the jumping into the water with your hands tied behind your back. That's crazy, you know, but we did it. And we were proud of ourselves afterwards.

[Assistant] I think that's what they were kind of going for, you’re right. So what do you remember most about Puerto Rico?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I thought that was a little over the top. I don't think we really needed to rappel down a cliff to prove ourselves, but it did.

[Assistant] I never thought I'd ever rappel down a dam.

[User] Me neither. And the jumping into the water with your hands tied behind your back. That's crazy, you know, but we did it. And we were proud of ourselves afterwards.

[Assistant] I think that's what they were kind of going for, you’re right. So what do you remember most about Puerto Rico?

[User] Um, I remember most of the treks we were on, the small group treks where we had to follow a map and just live off the land, so to speak, and hopefully arrive at the right place at the right time.

[Assistant] Were you in a group when we did that 40-mile hike? Were you in a group with Wayne or were with you with my group?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Me neither. And the jumping into the water with your hands tied behind your back. That's crazy, you know, but we did it. And we were proud of ourselves afterwards.

[Assistant] I think that's what they were kind of going for, you’re right. So what do you remember most about Puerto Rico?

[User] Um, I remember most of the treks we were on, the small group treks where we had to follow a map and just live off the land, so to speak, and hopefully arrive at the right place at the right time.

[Assistant] Were you in a group when we did that 40-mile hike? Were you in a group with Wayne or were with you with my group?

[User] I was with the girls.

[Assistant] Yeah, because there was a bunch of women.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Um, I remember most of the treks we were on, the small group treks where we had to follow a map and just live off the land, so to speak, and hopefully arrive at the right place at the right time.

[Assistant] Were you in a group when we did that 40-mile hike? Were you in a group with Wayne or were with you with my group?

[User] I was with the girls.

[Assistant] Yeah, because there was a bunch of women.

[User] Yeah, I remember two people. Rose. Someone got very bad blisters and they had to turn back.

[Assistant] Yeah, that was Rose. I was in that group.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I was with the girls.

[Assistant] Yeah, because there was a bunch of women.

[User] Yeah, I remember two people. Rose. Someone got very bad blisters and they had to turn back.

[Assistant] Yeah, that was Rose. I was in that group.

[User] There were females from another training group in our small group too.

[Assistant] We must have been in a different one then. The one I was in, well, we didn’t do much living off the land.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yeah, I remember two people. Rose. Someone got very bad blisters and they had to turn back.

[Assistant] Yeah, that was Rose. I was in that group.

[User] There were females from another training group in our small group too.

[Assistant] We must have been in a different one then. The one I was in, well, we didn’t do much living off the land.

[User] No we didn’t. In fact, two nights, first one night a family invited us into their house or maybe we asked or begged to come into their house. I don't know. But after one of us, I was carrying a machete, which we were supposed to carry. And I remember the man said, well, if you leave your machetes, if we can lock up your machete, your group can stay in our house. And that's what happened. He took my machete and locked it in the room and then gave us all a room. I don't know how many of us there were at that time. There was one hammock and the rest of us sort of found places on the floor. But at least we were out of the rain. That was quite an experience.

[Assistant] We must have been in different groups because I don't remember anybody ever having us stay. They invited us for coffee. And, you know, there was one guy that tried to marry all of us off.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] There were females from another training group in our small group too.

[Assistant] We must have been in a different one then. The one I was in, well, we didn’t do much living off the land.

[User] No we didn’t. In fact, two nights, first one night a family invited us into their house or maybe we asked or begged to come into their house. I don't know. But after one of us, I was carrying a machete, which we were supposed to carry. And I remember the man said, well, if you leave your machetes, if we can lock up your machete, your group can stay in our house. And that's what happened. He took my machete and locked it in the room and then gave us all a room. I don't know how many of us there were at that time. There was one hammock and the rest of us sort of found places on the floor. But at least we were out of the rain. That was quite an experience.

[Assistant] We must have been in different groups because I don't remember anybody ever having us stay. They invited us for coffee. And, you know, there was one guy that tried to marry all of us off.

[User] No, I don't remember that. We must have been in a separate group.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. So whenever we got finished with the training and Camp Crozier, then we went to Mayaguez. Do you remember that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No we didn’t. In fact, two nights, first one night a family invited us into their house or maybe we asked or begged to come into their house. I don't know. But after one of us, I was carrying a machete, which we were supposed to carry. And I remember the man said, well, if you leave your machetes, if we can lock up your machete, your group can stay in our house. And that's what happened. He took my machete and locked it in the room and then gave us all a room. I don't know how many of us there were at that time. There was one hammock and the rest of us sort of found places on the floor. But at least we were out of the rain. That was quite an experience.

[Assistant] We must have been in different groups because I don't remember anybody ever having us stay. They invited us for coffee. And, you know, there was one guy that tried to marry all of us off.

[User] No, I don't remember that. We must have been in a separate group.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. So whenever we got finished with the training and Camp Crozier, then we went to Mayaguez. Do you remember that?

[User] Yes, I do.

[Assistant] What did you think about that? They said we needed more language training.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, I don't remember that. We must have been in a separate group.

[Assistant] Yeah, OK. So whenever we got finished with the training and Camp Crozier, then we went to Mayaguez. Do you remember that?

[User] Yes, I do.

[Assistant] What did you think about that? They said we needed more language training.

[User] Yes. I guess our group wasn't doing too well with language as a whole.

[Assistant] Well, I often wondered if that was the real reason. Who knew all the different issues going on.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, I do.

[Assistant] What did you think about that? They said we needed more language training.

[User] Yes. I guess our group wasn't doing too well with language as a whole.

[Assistant] Well, I often wondered if that was the real reason. Who knew all the different issues going on.

[User] I remember we stayed with families.

[Assistant] Yeah, you and Wayne stayed together.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes. I guess our group wasn't doing too well with language as a whole.

[Assistant] Well, I often wondered if that was the real reason. Who knew all the different issues going on.

[User] I remember we stayed with families.

[Assistant] Yeah, you and Wayne stayed together.

[User] No, no, no, I stayed alone. I stayed alone with a family.

[Assistant] OK, Rose and I were together with one family.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I remember we stayed with families.

[Assistant] Yeah, you and Wayne stayed together.

[User] No, no, no, I stayed alone. I stayed alone with a family.

[Assistant] OK, Rose and I were together with one family.

[User] And yeah, Wayne and I weren't married yet.

[Assistant] Oh that’s right.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] No, no, no, I stayed alone. I stayed alone with a family.

[Assistant] OK, Rose and I were together with one family.

[User] And yeah, Wayne and I weren't married yet.

[Assistant] Oh that’s right.

[User] And yeah. And so that was an experience. It was sort of a winding down time, I thought, and a good time to concentrate on Spanish because I for one needed that. And then we did some other social visiting social services that I don't remember much about.

[Assistant] I went, I decided I'd had enough of Spanish as I already had studied it. So I tried hanging around the hospital to learn some medical Spanish. But did you go to the beach? Remember we spent a lot of time down at the beach.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And yeah, Wayne and I weren't married yet.

[Assistant] Oh that’s right.

[User] And yeah. And so that was an experience. It was sort of a winding down time, I thought, and a good time to concentrate on Spanish because I for one needed that. And then we did some other social visiting social services that I don't remember much about.

[Assistant] I went, I decided I'd had enough of Spanish as I already had studied it. So I tried hanging around the hospital to learn some medical Spanish. But did you go to the beach? Remember we spent a lot of time down at the beach.

[User] Yes, that's true. That's true. I remember that now. Were we just playing around at that time? I guess.

[Assistant] Well we had our classes and whatever and then you know, there were free time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And yeah. And so that was an experience. It was sort of a winding down time, I thought, and a good time to concentrate on Spanish because I for one needed that. And then we did some other social visiting social services that I don't remember much about.

[Assistant] I went, I decided I'd had enough of Spanish as I already had studied it. So I tried hanging around the hospital to learn some medical Spanish. But did you go to the beach? Remember we spent a lot of time down at the beach.

[User] Yes, that's true. That's true. I remember that now. Were we just playing around at that time? I guess.

[Assistant] Well we had our classes and whatever and then you know, there were free time.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] OK, so then we went home and got ready to go to Bolivia. What happened when you went back home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes, that's true. That's true. I remember that now. Were we just playing around at that time? I guess.

[Assistant] Well we had our classes and whatever and then you know, there were free time.

[User] Right.

[Assistant] OK, so then we went home and got ready to go to Bolivia. What happened when you went back home?

[User] I got married.

[Assistant] Oh, did you get married at home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] I got married.

[Assistant] Oh, did you get married at home?

[User] All the time, well, from the time, the last day we were at the Maricopa in Arizona. Remember, they were cutting. They were cutting people.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And with that much previous notice. So until the last day of being in Arizona, we weren't sure who was going to continue on and who wasn't. So we didn't. I had my mother had planned our wedding, but didn't dare send out the invitations until I said go. So when Wayne and I both were approved to go on to Puerto Rico or to yeah, Puerto Rico, they did that too. So it was after the Camp Crozier experience where we felt pretty confident. I mean, we had to make it.

[Assistant] So that's when they cut us off, after that Camp Crozier.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] All the time, well, from the time, the last day we were at the Maricopa in Arizona. Remember, they were cutting. They were cutting people.

[Assistant] Right.

[User] And with that much previous notice. So until the last day of being in Arizona, we weren't sure who was going to continue on and who wasn't. So we didn't. I had my mother had planned our wedding, but didn't dare send out the invitations until I said go. So when Wayne and I both were approved to go on to Puerto Rico or to yeah, Puerto Rico, they did that too. So it was after the Camp Crozier experience where we felt pretty confident. I mean, we had to make it.

[Assistant] So that's when they cut us off, after that Camp Crozier.

[User] Right. Right. Yeah. You know, people who happen to scream when they were dangling at the end of a rope didn't fare too well. Anyway, we went home, got our marriage license, had two wedding showers, got married.

[Assistant] Wow, you were pretty busy.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And with that much previous notice. So until the last day of being in Arizona, we weren't sure who was going to continue on and who wasn't. So we didn't. I had my mother had planned our wedding, but didn't dare send out the invitations until I said go. So when Wayne and I both were approved to go on to Puerto Rico or to yeah, Puerto Rico, they did that too. So it was after the Camp Crozier experience where we felt pretty confident. I mean, we had to make it.

[Assistant] So that's when they cut us off, after that Camp Crozier.

[User] Right. Right. Yeah. You know, people who happen to scream when they were dangling at the end of a rope didn't fare too well. Anyway, we went home, got our marriage license, had two wedding showers, got married.

[Assistant] Wow, you were pretty busy.

[User] And then we came back to Miami airport on schedule.

[Assistant] And what happened then, from your point of view?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Right. Yeah. You know, people who happen to scream when they were dangling at the end of a rope didn't fare too well. Anyway, we went home, got our marriage license, had two wedding showers, got married.

[Assistant] Wow, you were pretty busy.

[User] And then we came back to Miami airport on schedule.

[Assistant] And what happened then, from your point of view?

[User] From my point of view. Well, three of us who lived in North Dakota traveled together and we were going to meet the rest of our group at the airport in Miami. We thought we were going to get on a plane. And then we were told that there's been a change of plans and we were told that we should they had made reservations at a hotel right at the airport for all of us, who were told to go to our rooms and turn on the TV. And that's when President Kennedy appeared on TV and told us we might be in a bit of trouble, but I don't think we knew. I guess nobody knew what that was all about at the time.

[Assistant] It was the Cuban Missile Crisis.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And then we came back to Miami airport on schedule.

[Assistant] And what happened then, from your point of view?

[User] From my point of view. Well, three of us who lived in North Dakota traveled together and we were going to meet the rest of our group at the airport in Miami. We thought we were going to get on a plane. And then we were told that there's been a change of plans and we were told that we should they had made reservations at a hotel right at the airport for all of us, who were told to go to our rooms and turn on the TV. And that's when President Kennedy appeared on TV and told us we might be in a bit of trouble, but I don't think we knew. I guess nobody knew what that was all about at the time.

[Assistant] It was the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[User] It was but we didn't have a name for it at that time.

[Assistant] No, we didn't have a name for it. But everybody was leaving Miami as fast as they could, except us.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] From my point of view. Well, three of us who lived in North Dakota traveled together and we were going to meet the rest of our group at the airport in Miami. We thought we were going to get on a plane. And then we were told that there's been a change of plans and we were told that we should they had made reservations at a hotel right at the airport for all of us, who were told to go to our rooms and turn on the TV. And that's when President Kennedy appeared on TV and told us we might be in a bit of trouble, but I don't think we knew. I guess nobody knew what that was all about at the time.

[Assistant] It was the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[User] It was but we didn't have a name for it at that time.

[Assistant] No, we didn't have a name for it. But everybody was leaving Miami as fast as they could, except us.

[User] Except us. It's very interesting because that's what I was remembering. And then two days ago, I was reading the letter that I'd written to my parents about that time. And I said, it said in my letter, I had written in my letter, that we were told that some of the teachers in Bolivia were striking and that the Peace Corps thought it was better that we not arrive at that time.

[Assistant] Well, but that was at the same time as the miners that were striking.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] It was but we didn't have a name for it at that time.

[Assistant] No, we didn't have a name for it. But everybody was leaving Miami as fast as they could, except us.

[User] Except us. It's very interesting because that's what I was remembering. And then two days ago, I was reading the letter that I'd written to my parents about that time. And I said, it said in my letter, I had written in my letter, that we were told that some of the teachers in Bolivia were striking and that the Peace Corps thought it was better that we not arrive at that time.

[Assistant] Well, but that was at the same time as the miners that were striking.

[User] Aha. OK.

[Assistant] The miners. But that was like two things, two different things. I guess it was enough that they couldn't send us. But it took a while to get that straight.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Except us. It's very interesting because that's what I was remembering. And then two days ago, I was reading the letter that I'd written to my parents about that time. And I said, it said in my letter, I had written in my letter, that we were told that some of the teachers in Bolivia were striking and that the Peace Corps thought it was better that we not arrive at that time.

[Assistant] Well, but that was at the same time as the miners that were striking.

[User] Aha. OK.

[Assistant] The miners. But that was like two things, two different things. I guess it was enough that they couldn't send us. But it took a while to get that straight.

[User] Right. Yes. Well because really nobody knew what was happening right at that moment.

[Assistant] I always sort of felt that our group was kind of like guinea pigs because we had probably the longest training of any group ever, because of all those things that happened.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Aha. OK.

[Assistant] The miners. But that was like two things, two different things. I guess it was enough that they couldn't send us. But it took a while to get that straight.

[User] Right. Yes. Well because really nobody knew what was happening right at that moment.

[Assistant] I always sort of felt that our group was kind of like guinea pigs because we had probably the longest training of any group ever, because of all those things that happened.

[User] So then we were put in a nice luxury hotel for a couple of days because that's my letter said it was the cheapest place for them because it was off season. It was October.

[Assistant] And because people were leaving Miami in droves. That’s the reason hotels were dying.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Right. Yes. Well because really nobody knew what was happening right at that moment.

[Assistant] I always sort of felt that our group was kind of like guinea pigs because we had probably the longest training of any group ever, because of all those things that happened.

[User] So then we were put in a nice luxury hotel for a couple of days because that's my letter said it was the cheapest place for them because it was off season. It was October.

[Assistant] And because people were leaving Miami in droves. That’s the reason hotels were dying.

[User] But in my letter to my parents, I never mentioned President Kennedy’s speech. I wonder. Maybe I was trying to, I was probably thinking my parents didn't know and I didn't want you to worry about me when I was there. Anyway.

[Assistant] And then then we went.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] So then we were put in a nice luxury hotel for a couple of days because that's my letter said it was the cheapest place for them because it was off season. It was October.

[Assistant] And because people were leaving Miami in droves. That’s the reason hotels were dying.

[User] But in my letter to my parents, I never mentioned President Kennedy’s speech. I wonder. Maybe I was trying to, I was probably thinking my parents didn't know and I didn't want you to worry about me when I was there. Anyway.

[Assistant] And then then we went.

[User] Then they sent our entire group up to Vermont, the Experiment for International Living building. In Brattleboro, Vermont, in October, the most beautiful town in Vermont. And this was our honeymoon. I mean, this was three days after our wedding.

[Assistant] You lucked out.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] But in my letter to my parents, I never mentioned President Kennedy’s speech. I wonder. Maybe I was trying to, I was probably thinking my parents didn't know and I didn't want you to worry about me when I was there. Anyway.

[Assistant] And then then we went.

[User] Then they sent our entire group up to Vermont, the Experiment for International Living building. In Brattleboro, Vermont, in October, the most beautiful town in Vermont. And this was our honeymoon. I mean, this was three days after our wedding.

[Assistant] You lucked out.

[User] We lucked out. Not much to do there.

[Assistant] Well, they did have us practice our Spanish some more. I remember going walking and picking apples.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Then they sent our entire group up to Vermont, the Experiment for International Living building. In Brattleboro, Vermont, in October, the most beautiful town in Vermont. And this was our honeymoon. I mean, this was three days after our wedding.

[Assistant] You lucked out.

[User] We lucked out. Not much to do there.

[Assistant] Well, they did have us practice our Spanish some more. I remember going walking and picking apples.

[User] Oh, I know, it was beautiful.

[Assistant] After Arizona and Puerto Rico, it was nice.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] We lucked out. Not much to do there.

[Assistant] Well, they did have us practice our Spanish some more. I remember going walking and picking apples.

[User] Oh, I know, it was beautiful.

[Assistant] After Arizona and Puerto Rico, it was nice.

[User] And it was the first time we had rested, I think, for many months, actually.

[Assistant] We all went, you remember when they sent us into Boston?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Oh, I know, it was beautiful.

[Assistant] After Arizona and Puerto Rico, it was nice.

[User] And it was the first time we had rested, I think, for many months, actually.

[Assistant] We all went, you remember when they sent us into Boston?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because a new group was coming in for training and they didn't want any of us older, you know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] And it was the first time we had rested, I think, for many months, actually.

[Assistant] We all went, you remember when they sent us into Boston?

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because a new group was coming in for training and they didn't want any of us older, you know.

[User] Contaminated.

[Assistant] Yeah. They didn't want us to influence anyone.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] Because a new group was coming in for training and they didn't want any of us older, you know.

[User] Contaminated.

[Assistant] Yeah. They didn't want us to influence anyone.

[User] Cynical people.

[Assistant] Yeah. So we accepted the trip to Boston. I remember some people saying, well, I'm not going to go to Boston, they just want to get rid of us. But I remember thinking, well, I have never been to Boston.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Contaminated.

[Assistant] Yeah. They didn't want us to influence anyone.

[User] Cynical people.

[Assistant] Yeah. So we accepted the trip to Boston. I remember some people saying, well, I'm not going to go to Boston, they just want to get rid of us. But I remember thinking, well, I have never been to Boston.

[User] Why not?

[Assistant] OK, so when we finally got to Bolivia. What was your impression of Bolivia when we got there?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for oral history.

[User] Cynical people.

[Assistant] Yeah. So we accepted the trip to Boston. I remember some people saying, well, I'm not going to go to Boston, they just want to get rid of us. But I remember thinking, well, I have never been to Boston.

[User] Why not?

[Assistant] OK, so when we finally got to Bolivia. What was your impression of Bolivia when we got there?

[User] Well, luckily we had been told quite a bit about Bolivia. So we landed in the La Paz airport, I remember that. And of course, I was looking in every direction and people had warned us that we might have altitude sickness and all that. But, uh, yeah, it was just very, very interesting to see actually see what we've been told about for all these months of training. So I think we were. It was a good experience for us all. We weren't too rushed. They gave us time to sort of settle into a hotel. I think we were only there like a week.

[Assistant] I don't know if it was that long even.