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[User]
Yes, we did. Right, right. Yeah. So we were just sort of like watching what was happening in, like, New York mostly. Just like, oh, god. Yeah. So I think by the time it hit [...], as a whole, people were taking it more seriously because we had already seen what was happening in New York, but we were not like phase one in New York or in the US, you know?

So you didn't really have to like convince people at that point, I think, to take it seriously.

[Assistant] And what about your patients.

[User]
I you know, it's funny because I was in [city], like you wonder sort of like what the reaction was were of the people there. I would say the large majority of the patients were like completely on board with definitely wearing masks and stuff. But I think that's because they all have cancer. And so even if their politics is different, their own like self-preservation, I think was like for myself, I need to do this. rtpar

I think people's biggest complaints was not being able to have a support person there with them. That was really hard for people you could only have one in special circumstances, like patients who had like cognitive or like memory issues or children obviously so we got pushback with that. You and some pushback with like the quarantine stuff, like, oh, you're coming here from Arkansas, like, yes, you have to quarantine for 14 days before you can come here.

That was really hard for people to understandably right? Like they get it. But it was it was hard. I think overall people handled it really well considering everybody trying to come here like is seriously ill. Yeah.

[Assistant] Was that was this hospital policy or was this just your clinic?

[User] Yes. Hospital policy

[Assistant] so they they prepared they got, they procured these N95s as far as information sharing goes. Were there any they said you said they nixed meetings, but were there any like discussions or email blasts or especially in like February, like telling you what was going to happen.


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[User] Yes. Hospital policy

[Assistant] so they they prepared they got, they procured these N95s as far as information sharing goes. Were there any they said you said they nixed meetings, but were there any like discussions or email blasts or especially in like February, like telling you what was going to happen.

[User]
So February? I want to say we were getting periodic communication. Um, from upper leadership in the form of emails being like, yes, we're aware this is going on and we're paying attention like stay tuned for changes. And so there was that. And then there were also things that were information. It was disseminated from your direct supervisor. So like, you know, the unit's nurse manager would like have things to tell the nurses or like the APP supervisor would like had things to tell like me and other APPS.

But I think so yes, there was communication. I don't remember how frequently it was though. I think it just it slowly got like more and more frequent kind of like. Yes, we’re monitoring this. Once they started making changes though, because at some point it must have maybe it didn't happen till that first day of lockdown. There was daily communication where like all the hospital leadership meets, they looked at like the total numbers of COVID positive patients, the amount of ICU beds we had, like the vents we had like all of that.

And they would like send it out every day as well as like changes, links to PowerPoint slides for like charting things that, you know, like all that kind of stuff. But but before, yes, there was communication. It was not daily though. definitely not.

[Assistant] And and when when they changed this policy, when they said, OK, no more, now you have to quarantine 14 days now or now no more visitors.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] What was what was your what was your reaction to that?


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[User]
I wish that they had found a way to make having a support person safe. We had enough masks giving people bad news, bad cancer news, and then they're crying by themselves in their room is like horrible I don't think anybody should have to go through that. So so I wish that there like I said, I don't even know that I had the solution right, because any extra body was extra risk.

But I mean, we, I had those visits where somebody is just bawling and they're alone. And I just and that was that was really hard.

[Assistant] Yeah. So anything you would have done differently personally as an individual?

[User] Oh.

[Assistant] Not as in not as like a nurse as an individual.

[User]
No. I think I think we my husband and I handled everything very like we handled it really seriously, you know, like we didn't meet with people. We kind of like we're always following the most up to date guidance. We cancelled our wedding or no, we got married, but just with six people there. But yes and no, I think I mean, knock on wood, to this day, neither one of us has gotten covid.

So, no, I don't think we would have done anything different. So, yeah.

[Assistant] What else would you like to tell me about the way you felt in early 2020.


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[User] Oh.

[Assistant] Not as in not as like a nurse as an individual.

[User]
No. I think I think we my husband and I handled everything very like we handled it really seriously, you know, like we didn't meet with people. We kind of like we're always following the most up to date guidance. We cancelled our wedding or no, we got married, but just with six people there. But yes and no, I think I mean, knock on wood, to this day, neither one of us has gotten covid.

So, no, I don't think we would have done anything different. So, yeah.

[Assistant] What else would you like to tell me about the way you felt in early 2020.

[User]
Oh, I guess uh… I think initially when everybody was really on the same page early on during the lockdowns I think there was like a lot of camaraderie with, like on the units. And I think we felt like important you know, like the public like supported us.

And I think that was kind of like a brief window of time before things really started to like devolve the rhetoric got really nasty, but there was a small window of time where that was really nice. It was like, OK, we all have to be here and we don't know what's going on, but like we're in this together kind of thing.

And so that was, that was nice. And when things got harder that got harder. Yeah. Just feeling like you were having to fight against like so much misinformation. More so in my personal life, I guess. Like, it was almost like offensive, you know, like when people weren't taking it seriously and it's like, you know, for, like, my patients who are immunocompromised, you know, like, that's offensive to them that you would like not take something like this seriously.

[Assistant] Two more. What do you think I should have asked that I didn't.


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[User]
No. I think I think we my husband and I handled everything very like we handled it really seriously, you know, like we didn't meet with people. We kind of like we're always following the most up to date guidance. We cancelled our wedding or no, we got married, but just with six people there. But yes and no, I think I mean, knock on wood, to this day, neither one of us has gotten covid.

So, no, I don't think we would have done anything different. So, yeah.

[Assistant] What else would you like to tell me about the way you felt in early 2020.

[User]
Oh, I guess uh… I think initially when everybody was really on the same page early on during the lockdowns I think there was like a lot of camaraderie with, like on the units. And I think we felt like important you know, like the public like supported us.

And I think that was kind of like a brief window of time before things really started to like devolve the rhetoric got really nasty, but there was a small window of time where that was really nice. It was like, OK, we all have to be here and we don't know what's going on, but like we're in this together kind of thing.

And so that was, that was nice. And when things got harder that got harder. Yeah. Just feeling like you were having to fight against like so much misinformation. More so in my personal life, I guess. Like, it was almost like offensive, you know, like when people weren't taking it seriously and it's like, you know, for, like, my patients who are immunocompromised, you know, like, that's offensive to them that you would like not take something like this seriously.

[Assistant] Two more. What do you think I should have asked that I didn't.

[User] About the early pandemic. I can't think of anything.

[Assistant] And what else would you like to tell me? Yeah he's hungry, so I’ll let you go.


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[User] Yes we are ready.

[Assistant]
Our discussion will be divided into different sections and we are going to have almost 5 sections and those sections are; reasons/causes for the change on food intake to the Maasai community and other people in the community, the importance of drinking /using milk to Maasai community, why drinking animal blood, what kind of food that is mostly used to your community during ceremonies?, and last we a going to discuss about training, education and information concerning nutrition and health and what types of food can be used for the good health.

first section: Reasons /causes for the change on food intake to the community. We all know that there are a lot of changes on food intake or the kind of food that is consumed by people the community, and this also takes part in the Maasai society, in the past the kind of food that were mostly consumed by maasai was only milk and meat and somehow ugali, but now we see that maasai eat different kind of food like chips, chicken, vegetable, cassava and so many kind of food, never the less even the way of preparing those food differ from then and now for example how were you preparing meat in the past?

[User] This is very true, in the past we were just cutting the meat into pieces then we just boil the meat with additional of salt and when it’s done thus is it,

[Assistant] Ok thus nice, so what about now, how do you prepare meat?

[User] Now it is different from past the process of preparing meat can be just boil meat as soup but with additional of carrot and potato, or we boil and then roast to get the source with tomato, also we sometime grill and we can do a fried meat with oil.

[Assistant] So can you tell me what the causes of those changes are?


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[User] This is very true, in the past we were just cutting the meat into pieces then we just boil the meat with additional of salt and when it’s done thus is it,

[Assistant] Ok thus nice, so what about now, how do you prepare meat?

[User] Now it is different from past the process of preparing meat can be just boil meat as soup but with additional of carrot and potato, or we boil and then roast to get the source with tomato, also we sometime grill and we can do a fried meat with oil.

[Assistant] So can you tell me what the causes of those changes are?

[User] Development.

[Assistant] Can you please elaborate what do you mean by saying development is the reason for the changes?


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[User] Now it is different from past the process of preparing meat can be just boil meat as soup but with additional of carrot and potato, or we boil and then roast to get the source with tomato, also we sometime grill and we can do a fried meat with oil.

[Assistant] So can you tell me what the causes of those changes are?

[User] Development.

[Assistant] Can you please elaborate what do you mean by saying development is the reason for the changes?

[User] Now we have been developed we don’t eat and cook like before this is because we meet and associate with different people and get to see and learn how to prepare food in the way others do.

[Assistant] Where do you meet new people and learn how they prepare their meal?


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[User] Development.

[Assistant] Can you please elaborate what do you mean by saying development is the reason for the changes?

[User] Now we have been developed we don’t eat and cook like before this is because we meet and associate with different people and get to see and learn how to prepare food in the way others do.

[Assistant] Where do you meet new people and learn how they prepare their meal?

[User] We usually go to the different meetings that are prepared by village members to know one another and also, we meet people in the ceremonies where we get to eat new food and we learn how they prepare them and so we take that new education and practise at our home, or some times when we visit one another we ask other people how they cook their meal so as we can go home and cook the same way.

[Assistant] What are the other reasons for those changes in food intake?


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[User] Now we have been developed we don’t eat and cook like before this is because we meet and associate with different people and get to see and learn how to prepare food in the way others do.

[Assistant] Where do you meet new people and learn how they prepare their meal?

[User] We usually go to the different meetings that are prepared by village members to know one another and also, we meet people in the ceremonies where we get to eat new food and we learn how they prepare them and so we take that new education and practise at our home, or some times when we visit one another we ask other people how they cook their meal so as we can go home and cook the same way.

[Assistant] What are the other reasons for those changes in food intake?

[User]
Education; our children go to school and associate with different tribe, as we all know the only place where children spend and learn a lot of things is at school, besides teaching other things they also teach how to cook different food and so our kids learn and when they get back home they bring those new skills at home.

Mixed up with people from different tribes influences food changes, this is due to education and different skills that we share from one another, the way we cook, the food that we eat education on what is good for the health and so many.

Another issue or reason is weather change, this is one of the main effect on food change as during summer there is luck of grasses for feeding cow so due to that even availability of milk become very low and this is the reason why we had to find other kind of food to eat during those seasons and for that case milk is no longer food it cannot be enough without other food.

[Assistant] Apart from all those reasons you mentioned which is, education, development. Mixed up, weather change, let’s talk about means of cooking, what kind of cooking energy that you are using and how do you obtain them? And when we say energy we mean charcoal, gas and firewood. And does cooking a certain type of food depends with the cooking energy available?


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[User] For now there is no any business to do, a lot of livestock are dying due to diseases and drought so we find ourselves in a very difficult situation as food is scarce as well as milk so this situation makes us eat what is available at the market and that is cheap and affordable.

[Assistant] what about change in price of food, does that affect the kind of food you eat?

[User]
Yes of course price change has a very big effect on the issue of what we eat, it is a normal situation that when the price of a certain food perhaps rice goes down we will all eat rice but when the price of rice goes up we will then find an alternative which will be cheaper and affordable. E.g. vegetable, cassava, or potatoes.

And sometimes when the price of food goes high we decide to grow some of the food ourselves e.g. maize and other small things for the home use.

[Assistant] What about the issue of availability of different kind of food in the market, as you have said earlier that before you had no much food even in the market thus why you were eating milk and meat, but now due to the development and the mixed up of different tribe now people are moving from one place to another and bring business like foods that means now in your market you have variety of food, does this cause the change in food intake in your society?

[User] To us there are some food which are not available in the market at all and even when they are sometimes available they are very expensive in order to get them then we have to go to another village a bit distance from ours to buy and again in a high price, e.g. of those are rice and maize and this also is the reason why we decide to grow some for our own.

[Assistant] Is there any kind of food in your community that most people don’t use and for those few who are consuming them others are so surprised by them? and if yes does this affect those who are eating to stop and find something else to eat?


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[User]
Yes of course price change has a very big effect on the issue of what we eat, it is a normal situation that when the price of a certain food perhaps rice goes down we will all eat rice but when the price of rice goes up we will then find an alternative which will be cheaper and affordable. E.g. vegetable, cassava, or potatoes.

And sometimes when the price of food goes high we decide to grow some of the food ourselves e.g. maize and other small things for the home use.

[Assistant] What about the issue of availability of different kind of food in the market, as you have said earlier that before you had no much food even in the market thus why you were eating milk and meat, but now due to the development and the mixed up of different tribe now people are moving from one place to another and bring business like foods that means now in your market you have variety of food, does this cause the change in food intake in your society?

[User] To us there are some food which are not available in the market at all and even when they are sometimes available they are very expensive in order to get them then we have to go to another village a bit distance from ours to buy and again in a high price, e.g. of those are rice and maize and this also is the reason why we decide to grow some for our own.

[Assistant] Is there any kind of food in your community that most people don’t use and for those few who are consuming them others are so surprised by them? and if yes does this affect those who are eating to stop and find something else to eat?

[User] Yes, food like stiff porridge made using cassava flour, most of us we don’t eat, this does not stop those who are eating to keep eating.

[Assistant] What kind of food that when you eat others see you like you are well off?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] To us there are some food which are not available in the market at all and even when they are sometimes available they are very expensive in order to get them then we have to go to another village a bit distance from ours to buy and again in a high price, e.g. of those are rice and maize and this also is the reason why we decide to grow some for our own.

[Assistant] Is there any kind of food in your community that most people don’t use and for those few who are consuming them others are so surprised by them? and if yes does this affect those who are eating to stop and find something else to eat?

[User] Yes, food like stiff porridge made using cassava flour, most of us we don’t eat, this does not stop those who are eating to keep eating.

[Assistant] What kind of food that when you eat others see you like you are well off?

[User] To that matter it depends with an individual with what they like as some people don’t like ugali some like or rice, but to most of the people are feeling special when they eat rice, and this is because rice is expensive compare to other kind of food that are affordable and also only few people can afford buying rice for the family. But also, when others eat stiff porridge they like as it is health.

[Assistant] so due to this does it brings / cause any change on food intake?


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[User] Yes, food like stiff porridge made using cassava flour, most of us we don’t eat, this does not stop those who are eating to keep eating.

[Assistant] What kind of food that when you eat others see you like you are well off?

[User] To that matter it depends with an individual with what they like as some people don’t like ugali some like or rice, but to most of the people are feeling special when they eat rice, and this is because rice is expensive compare to other kind of food that are affordable and also only few people can afford buying rice for the family. But also, when others eat stiff porridge they like as it is health.

[Assistant] so due to this does it brings / cause any change on food intake?

[User] Yes, but to very few, as most of us we just like stiff porridge

[Assistant] Among those things that causes the change on food intake, that you have mentioned what are the top three things which have higher effect on the change?


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[User] To that matter it depends with an individual with what they like as some people don’t like ugali some like or rice, but to most of the people are feeling special when they eat rice, and this is because rice is expensive compare to other kind of food that are affordable and also only few people can afford buying rice for the family. But also, when others eat stiff porridge they like as it is health.

[Assistant] so due to this does it brings / cause any change on food intake?

[User] Yes, but to very few, as most of us we just like stiff porridge

[Assistant] Among those things that causes the change on food intake, that you have mentioned what are the top three things which have higher effect on the change?

[User]
First thing is development, this is because every day in our life there are new development, people move from one place to another and somehow even the way of living changes from time to time including what people eat.

Second factor that contributes a lot to the change of food intake is mixed up of Maasai with other tribes

This also contributes a lot to the change because when people mixed up they bring their culture with them and exchange with others and food is one of those culture, so this makes us eat different food from different tribe

And the third one that contributes to change is draught. when there is no rain nothing grows. Second section of our discussion concern milk, so can you tell me the importance of milk to Maasai people?

To us Milk is medicine when you have Malaria when you drink enough milk you get better even without taking malaria medicine,

also milk is good for the healthy body, when you miss milk your body gets weak and thin and when your thin you feel dizzy and you cannot perform any duty effectively, so milk gives energy to the body.

Also, milk has cream which is used as a medicine as well as cooking oil, another advantage of milk is that it is food when you have enough milk you don’t need to eat other kind of foods.

[Assistant] Is milk the same comparing to other kind of food?


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[User]
No milk is far away different from other food and this is because in the past milk was used as food, we were drinking milk withought eating anything else more over milk is used as medicine and oil.

milk was being prepared by adding onion and a bit of maize flour and used as a heavy food, this food is called Kididio or Mboga saji.

but one thing now milk is not enough to be used as food alone. I think this is due to decrease in availability of milk due to draught as well as death of many cow because of diseases.

[Assistant] When comparing the importance of milk in the past and now, is it the same?

[User] No in the past milk was very important but now not that much because in the past milk was a complete food itself but now milk is just used as a drink after food.

[Assistant] but why now milk is not as important as it was in the past?

[User]
I think because it’s not enough to be used as food alone and also now we are used to other types of food

Also, I think the availability of other food makes milk less important

[Assistant] We have heard from the society that now availability of milk is very low, so can you tell me why milk is very low now compare to the past?


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[User] No in the past milk was very important but now not that much because in the past milk was a complete food itself but now milk is just used as a drink after food.

[Assistant] but why now milk is not as important as it was in the past?

[User]
I think because it’s not enough to be used as food alone and also now we are used to other types of food

Also, I think the availability of other food makes milk less important

[Assistant] We have heard from the society that now availability of milk is very low, so can you tell me why milk is very low now compare to the past?

[User] now we have very few cows (livestock)

[Assistant] why is there few cows?


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[User]
I think because it’s not enough to be used as food alone and also now we are used to other types of food

Also, I think the availability of other food makes milk less important

[Assistant] We have heard from the society that now availability of milk is very low, so can you tell me why milk is very low now compare to the past?

[User] now we have very few cows (livestock)

[Assistant] why is there few cows?

[User] During summer a lot dies due to lack of pasture because rain is very few another thing is there are eruption of animal diseases.

[Assistant] What about farming system, did it also affect the availability of milk?


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[User] now we have very few cows (livestock)

[Assistant] why is there few cows?

[User] During summer a lot dies due to lack of pasture because rain is very few another thing is there are eruption of animal diseases.

[Assistant] What about farming system, did it also affect the availability of milk?

[User] Yes, it does affect the availability of milk as for now where we live we have not more than 3 cows as it become more of human habitat, so we cannot have many cattle, so most of them a staying far away into the forest so as they can get feeding leaves, and this is the reason why we have few milk.

[Assistant] We have seen that most of the changes are brought by our children from school where they meet others from different tribes and learn to adopt their ways of living so do this affect anyhow change in the availability of milk?


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[User] During summer a lot dies due to lack of pasture because rain is very few another thing is there are eruption of animal diseases.

[Assistant] What about farming system, did it also affect the availability of milk?

[User] Yes, it does affect the availability of milk as for now where we live we have not more than 3 cows as it become more of human habitat, so we cannot have many cattle, so most of them a staying far away into the forest so as they can get feeding leaves, and this is the reason why we have few milk.

[Assistant] We have seen that most of the changes are brought by our children from school where they meet others from different tribes and learn to adopt their ways of living so do this affect anyhow change in the availability of milk?

[User] Yes, most of the children when they get back from school they don’t want to involve themselves into taking care of the livestock, and this is due to the fact that taking care of livestock is a very difficulty duty so they prefer to find some easy work like having a shop, and that cause the availability of milk to be low.

[Assistant] Conflicts between farmers and pastoralists can you explain to me how do this contribute to the availability of milk?


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[User] Yes, it does affect the availability of milk as for now where we live we have not more than 3 cows as it become more of human habitat, so we cannot have many cattle, so most of them a staying far away into the forest so as they can get feeding leaves, and this is the reason why we have few milk.

[Assistant] We have seen that most of the changes are brought by our children from school where they meet others from different tribes and learn to adopt their ways of living so do this affect anyhow change in the availability of milk?

[User] Yes, most of the children when they get back from school they don’t want to involve themselves into taking care of the livestock, and this is due to the fact that taking care of livestock is a very difficulty duty so they prefer to find some easy work like having a shop, and that cause the availability of milk to be low.

[Assistant] Conflicts between farmers and pastoralists can you explain to me how do this contribute to the availability of milk?

[User] When there is no peace in the society its obviously that even animals will be in no peace, they will be running from one place to another they won’t get enough food so even the production of milk will be minimal

[Assistant] is the quality of milk in the past same as the quality of milk now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, most of the children when they get back from school they don’t want to involve themselves into taking care of the livestock, and this is due to the fact that taking care of livestock is a very difficulty duty so they prefer to find some easy work like having a shop, and that cause the availability of milk to be low.

[Assistant] Conflicts between farmers and pastoralists can you explain to me how do this contribute to the availability of milk?

[User] When there is no peace in the society its obviously that even animals will be in no peace, they will be running from one place to another they won’t get enough food so even the production of milk will be minimal

[Assistant] is the quality of milk in the past same as the quality of milk now?

[User]
No, the quality of milk in the past differ from that of now, Milk now has a lot of water than cream and this is because in the past there were no animal disease as now, even when a cow gets sick there was no treatment as in now, now everyday there is a new disease that affect livestock, so they get vaccination injection and due to that the quality of milk become bad as time goes by.

Also, now days cow they don’t get enough and quality food as before so even the production of milk is of no quality

For that matter we don’t drink a lot of milk as the quality and quantity is minimal, as when a cow get a vaccination you have to wait for 8 days for the medicine to be out of the system so as to get clean milk and for that matter lots of milk is wasted

[Assistant] Among those causes that affect the availability of milk what are the main causes?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] When there is no peace in the society its obviously that even animals will be in no peace, they will be running from one place to another they won’t get enough food so even the production of milk will be minimal

[Assistant] is the quality of milk in the past same as the quality of milk now?

[User]
No, the quality of milk in the past differ from that of now, Milk now has a lot of water than cream and this is because in the past there were no animal disease as now, even when a cow gets sick there was no treatment as in now, now everyday there is a new disease that affect livestock, so they get vaccination injection and due to that the quality of milk become bad as time goes by.

Also, now days cow they don’t get enough and quality food as before so even the production of milk is of no quality

For that matter we don’t drink a lot of milk as the quality and quantity is minimal, as when a cow get a vaccination you have to wait for 8 days for the medicine to be out of the system so as to get clean milk and for that matter lots of milk is wasted

[Assistant] Among those causes that affect the availability of milk what are the main causes?

[User]
The first cause is drought all issues counts but when there is no place or grasses for feeding the livestock then life gets even more difficult for the animals and for the owner as lots of animal dies as they don’t get anything to eat also apart from that even if they do get food it’s not enough so even the production of milk is of very low quantity.

the second issue that bring higher effect on the quality and quantity of milk is Animal diseases, now there is eruption of diseases that cause lots of animal to die and also to be able to produce enough and quality milk as it was before.

[Assistant] Another issue that we want to know from you is about drinking of animal blood, we know that in the past drinking animal blood was part of Maasai life, so do you keep on drinking animal blood and why?


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[User]
No, the quality of milk in the past differ from that of now, Milk now has a lot of water than cream and this is because in the past there were no animal disease as now, even when a cow gets sick there was no treatment as in now, now everyday there is a new disease that affect livestock, so they get vaccination injection and due to that the quality of milk become bad as time goes by.

Also, now days cow they don’t get enough and quality food as before so even the production of milk is of no quality

For that matter we don’t drink a lot of milk as the quality and quantity is minimal, as when a cow get a vaccination you have to wait for 8 days for the medicine to be out of the system so as to get clean milk and for that matter lots of milk is wasted

[Assistant] Among those causes that affect the availability of milk what are the main causes?

[User]
The first cause is drought all issues counts but when there is no place or grasses for feeding the livestock then life gets even more difficult for the animals and for the owner as lots of animal dies as they don’t get anything to eat also apart from that even if they do get food it’s not enough so even the production of milk is of very low quantity.

the second issue that bring higher effect on the quality and quantity of milk is Animal diseases, now there is eruption of diseases that cause lots of animal to die and also to be able to produce enough and quality milk as it was before.

[Assistant] Another issue that we want to know from you is about drinking of animal blood, we know that in the past drinking animal blood was part of Maasai life, so do you keep on drinking animal blood and why?

[User] Yes, it’s true in the past we used to drink animal blood as part of our daily life and this was mostly due to culture and believes, it was a believe that animal blood helps to increase blood to the pregnancy women also it was used during spiritual ceremonies as a sacrifice to those who have problems or who needs blessings, but now we no longer believe that, so we don’t drink animal blood

[Assistant] what is the reason for a change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
The first cause is drought all issues counts but when there is no place or grasses for feeding the livestock then life gets even more difficult for the animals and for the owner as lots of animal dies as they don’t get anything to eat also apart from that even if they do get food it’s not enough so even the production of milk is of very low quantity.

the second issue that bring higher effect on the quality and quantity of milk is Animal diseases, now there is eruption of diseases that cause lots of animal to die and also to be able to produce enough and quality milk as it was before.

[Assistant] Another issue that we want to know from you is about drinking of animal blood, we know that in the past drinking animal blood was part of Maasai life, so do you keep on drinking animal blood and why?

[User] Yes, it’s true in the past we used to drink animal blood as part of our daily life and this was mostly due to culture and believes, it was a believe that animal blood helps to increase blood to the pregnancy women also it was used during spiritual ceremonies as a sacrifice to those who have problems or who needs blessings, but now we no longer believe that, so we don’t drink animal blood

[Assistant] what is the reason for a change?

[User]
Development as our kids go to school they learn also we get to know that diseases affect animal blood as well so when you drink you will be infected as well,

Also, now we are religious believers and in the church they teach us that drinking blood is not a good thing spiritually thus why we don’t drink anymore.

[Assistant] Let us discuss about ceremonies food, we want to know in your society once you have a ceremony like wedding or holiday, funeral or a family gathering, what type/kind of food that you prepare?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, it’s true in the past we used to drink animal blood as part of our daily life and this was mostly due to culture and believes, it was a believe that animal blood helps to increase blood to the pregnancy women also it was used during spiritual ceremonies as a sacrifice to those who have problems or who needs blessings, but now we no longer believe that, so we don’t drink animal blood

[Assistant] what is the reason for a change?

[User]
Development as our kids go to school they learn also we get to know that diseases affect animal blood as well so when you drink you will be infected as well,

Also, now we are religious believers and in the church they teach us that drinking blood is not a good thing spiritually thus why we don’t drink anymore.

[Assistant] Let us discuss about ceremonies food, we want to know in your society once you have a ceremony like wedding or holiday, funeral or a family gathering, what type/kind of food that you prepare?

[User] In case of a ceremony we eat different kind of food, we can say we usually cooks varieties of food, e.g. rice (pilau), potatoes, banana, meat and other. But in the past in case of a ceremony we were eating Makande (a food made by mixing maize and beans), meat and milk.

[Assistant] Why a change of food to those events?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User]
Development as our kids go to school they learn also we get to know that diseases affect animal blood as well so when you drink you will be infected as well,

Also, now we are religious believers and in the church they teach us that drinking blood is not a good thing spiritually thus why we don’t drink anymore.

[Assistant] Let us discuss about ceremonies food, we want to know in your society once you have a ceremony like wedding or holiday, funeral or a family gathering, what type/kind of food that you prepare?

[User] In case of a ceremony we eat different kind of food, we can say we usually cooks varieties of food, e.g. rice (pilau), potatoes, banana, meat and other. But in the past in case of a ceremony we were eating Makande (a food made by mixing maize and beans), meat and milk.

[Assistant] Why a change of food to those events?

[User] development

[Assistant] Can you explain what do development got to do with the change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In case of a ceremony we eat different kind of food, we can say we usually cooks varieties of food, e.g. rice (pilau), potatoes, banana, meat and other. But in the past in case of a ceremony we were eating Makande (a food made by mixing maize and beans), meat and milk.

[Assistant] Why a change of food to those events?

[User] development

[Assistant] Can you explain what do development got to do with the change?

[User] We get education from others we learn and adopt other tribe’s life, our kids go to school and learn we live with other people we see and adopt thus development.

[Assistant] oh very well, so is the preparation of those foods the same as before?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] development

[Assistant] Can you explain what do development got to do with the change?

[User] We get education from others we learn and adopt other tribe’s life, our kids go to school and learn we live with other people we see and adopt thus development.

[Assistant] oh very well, so is the preparation of those foods the same as before?

[User] no, example for meat we prepare in different ways some we make soup ,some we fry some we barbeque, and some we roast so as can be used as source to rice, -and the way we cook and what we eat in the events it’s the same as what we eat at home.

[Assistant] on our previously discussion that was on February we also talked about the consumption of some part of a cow that not all men and women eat, we said that meat is special for men and for women they eat the insides of a cow, so why is that and is it continue even now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We get education from others we learn and adopt other tribe’s life, our kids go to school and learn we live with other people we see and adopt thus development.

[Assistant] oh very well, so is the preparation of those foods the same as before?

[User] no, example for meat we prepare in different ways some we make soup ,some we fry some we barbeque, and some we roast so as can be used as source to rice, -and the way we cook and what we eat in the events it’s the same as what we eat at home.

[Assistant] on our previously discussion that was on February we also talked about the consumption of some part of a cow that not all men and women eat, we said that meat is special for men and for women they eat the insides of a cow, so why is that and is it continue even now?

[User] Yes its true but it was just a discrimination there is no a clear explanation to why men has to eat the good meat and women the insides, but now it’s not the same as now we share half .

[Assistant] What are the effects for the change in food intake to the community, might be negative or positive?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] no, example for meat we prepare in different ways some we make soup ,some we fry some we barbeque, and some we roast so as can be used as source to rice, -and the way we cook and what we eat in the events it’s the same as what we eat at home.

[Assistant] on our previously discussion that was on February we also talked about the consumption of some part of a cow that not all men and women eat, we said that meat is special for men and for women they eat the insides of a cow, so why is that and is it continue even now?

[User] Yes its true but it was just a discrimination there is no a clear explanation to why men has to eat the good meat and women the insides, but now it’s not the same as now we share half .

[Assistant] What are the effects for the change in food intake to the community, might be negative or positive?

[User] Those changes to us have a good effect as we get to eat nice food as well as health food not like in the past also we eat variety of food and that is a good thing, more over now the food is health and gives us strong body and clear mind.

[Assistant] Our last part of discussion is I would like to know how and where to elders get to learn and acquires information concerning nutrition and good health and also the issues about good food here at Kambala village?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes its true but it was just a discrimination there is no a clear explanation to why men has to eat the good meat and women the insides, but now it’s not the same as now we share half .

[Assistant] What are the effects for the change in food intake to the community, might be negative or positive?

[User] Those changes to us have a good effect as we get to eat nice food as well as health food not like in the past also we eat variety of food and that is a good thing, more over now the food is health and gives us strong body and clear mind.

[Assistant] Our last part of discussion is I would like to know how and where to elders get to learn and acquires information concerning nutrition and good health and also the issues about good food here at Kambala village?

[User] in fact, we have never got this kind of education or information before but we just get very small education in the church or small gatherings’ that conducted in our village especial just a small group of women, and there we just give each other what we know about good and health food, also in the church they just tell us to eat everything and that we shouldn’t be worried all food is good for our health.

[Assistant] So how do you think this education concerning nutrition and health can be made as important to you?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Those changes to us have a good effect as we get to eat nice food as well as health food not like in the past also we eat variety of food and that is a good thing, more over now the food is health and gives us strong body and clear mind.

[Assistant] Our last part of discussion is I would like to know how and where to elders get to learn and acquires information concerning nutrition and good health and also the issues about good food here at Kambala village?

[User] in fact, we have never got this kind of education or information before but we just get very small education in the church or small gatherings’ that conducted in our village especial just a small group of women, and there we just give each other what we know about good and health food, also in the church they just tell us to eat everything and that we shouldn’t be worried all food is good for our health.

[Assistant] So how do you think this education concerning nutrition and health can be made as important to you?

[User] We wish to get this education in different places not only in the church. E.g. we wish to be provided this when we go to the hospital or seminars, you know among men and women, women are the one who cook at home and this means that we should get more education as we are taking care of our families and because we go much to the hospitals than men the even there they should be giving us education on nutrition and health food.

[Assistant] So, whom should be taught first?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] in fact, we have never got this kind of education or information before but we just get very small education in the church or small gatherings’ that conducted in our village especial just a small group of women, and there we just give each other what we know about good and health food, also in the church they just tell us to eat everything and that we shouldn’t be worried all food is good for our health.

[Assistant] So how do you think this education concerning nutrition and health can be made as important to you?

[User] We wish to get this education in different places not only in the church. E.g. we wish to be provided this when we go to the hospital or seminars, you know among men and women, women are the one who cook at home and this means that we should get more education as we are taking care of our families and because we go much to the hospitals than men the even there they should be giving us education on nutrition and health food.

[Assistant] So, whom should be taught first?

[User]
We should both be given the education but for the women we should be given more often as we are the one taking care of our families, cooking meal as for men they just bring food at home so they should be educated so as when they buy food they get to buy health food for the family.

And through women even our children will be able to get that education as most of the time mother is a first and best teacher to a child, but also they should be given education to school so as we can get the best generation in the future.

[Assistant] Very well, so whom do you want to teach you concerning nutrition and health?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We wish to get this education in different places not only in the church. E.g. we wish to be provided this when we go to the hospital or seminars, you know among men and women, women are the one who cook at home and this means that we should get more education as we are taking care of our families and because we go much to the hospitals than men the even there they should be giving us education on nutrition and health food.

[Assistant] So, whom should be taught first?

[User]
We should both be given the education but for the women we should be given more often as we are the one taking care of our families, cooking meal as for men they just bring food at home so they should be educated so as when they buy food they get to buy health food for the family.

And through women even our children will be able to get that education as most of the time mother is a first and best teacher to a child, but also they should be given education to school so as we can get the best generation in the future.

[Assistant] Very well, so whom do you want to teach you concerning nutrition and health?

[User]
(All of them) you should (Laughter)

What we are asking is that we should be given education like this most of the time; there should be a means of providing this kind of information every now and then.

[Assistant] Thank you all very much for your time and the best participation, so is there any question or suggestion as we closing up our discussion?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I mean, that's at different levels. I mean, the no loss policy goal, the 2020 overall goal that is still valid at the EU biodiversity strategy. The no net loss is just an action and a target too of the EU biodiversity strategy to achieve that goal, but it doesn't say... I mean, no loss doesn't say it's no growth or no net loss, it's just say no loss. And of course we interpret that as no loss at all but of course it is understandable a no net loss component has been in this and as NGOs we also have to say we haven't thought this through because we have let it slip in there, we have accompanied the development of the biodiversity strategy and at that time there was not a huge dispute about it, it only appeared later when we got more into the matter, that we saw, hey, this can really lead to problems and open up a real biodiversity bizarre.

[Assistant] and how participatory has the consultation been with the EU?

[User] You are referring to the EU online consulation?

[Assistant] Yes

[User] Well, quite, everyone was invited to participate. So, we did, we had long conversations amongst ourselves and with other NGOs that answered the questions which was tricky because many of the questions were clearly geared to have compensation or an offsetting mechanism which we would have preferred to have a much broader view on no net loss, to look at other options such as having clear targets, having spatial planning in there, maybe a soil directive to come back in, because we felt this was on the one hand has the dangers we have just discussed, on the other hand wouldn't cover everything. You can't really grasp, from a purely technical point of view, you can't really do anything against slow agricultural degradation, you need other instruments to get there other than compensation or an offsetting mechanism. So, can you remind me what the question was?

[Assistant] It was just, what level of participation...


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] So, the participation is good and we encourage others to participate as well. We recently had a conversation with the commission on that and there was around 750 people that responded and lots of organisations, but only 8 countries among that, quite interesting. We didn't get a detailed analysis yet because it is quite fresh so nobody could give us overview statistics at that point, that was interesting. But the questionnaire was not well done, because one thing, it was too much geared on offsetting and the other point is they put two different statements in one question, so you had to answer 'do you like this combined with that' then you had to answer yes or no and there was no choice 'yes ok I like the first part and I don't like the second one'. There were lots of questions like that. So you weren't able to answer properly, you had to answer yes. I don't know how to explain, if you have a look you will see the latter part was really not well done.

[Assistant] On the actual set of questions I noticed there was no question relating to the treatment of social equity and justice concerns necessarily and I was wondering when undertaking biodiversity offsetting do you think compensating the affected communities, i.e. social communities as well as ecological communities is always necessary and practical?

[User] Well, of course the social dimension has to be looked at, that is one of arguments we're making because it is... a part of this mechanism is of course to compensate for environmental loss on a more scientific objective basis, which is difficult enough, but you also, in some cases, in many cases it's not possible. But, what also has to be taken into account is the whole value the natural environment has for people, for recreation...

[Assistant] for health?

[User] For psychological health. I mean, you can't overestimate the ability to have a look into the greenery around you rather than concrete walls. So, this has to play a role definitely. On the other hand I think it is very difficult to do that so... The best way of course is to try and avoid it as much as possible.

[Assistant] Yes, and has there been discussion of this treatment of social aspects of biodiversity offsetting?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, of course the social dimension has to be looked at, that is one of arguments we're making because it is... a part of this mechanism is of course to compensate for environmental loss on a more scientific objective basis, which is difficult enough, but you also, in some cases, in many cases it's not possible. But, what also has to be taken into account is the whole value the natural environment has for people, for recreation...

[Assistant] for health?

[User] For psychological health. I mean, you can't overestimate the ability to have a look into the greenery around you rather than concrete walls. So, this has to play a role definitely. On the other hand I think it is very difficult to do that so... The best way of course is to try and avoid it as much as possible.

[Assistant] Yes, and has there been discussion of this treatment of social aspects of biodiversity offsetting?

[User] Well, we have raised it, ourselves we did and FERN did so even stronger pointing out... many of the local movements against major development projects there are of course no biodiversity experts, it is just their home that is being destroyed. Of course, it is very obvious from that that you have to take this into account. But, again, the key outcome from that discussion is we shouldn't do it at all because this is a problem. We didn't think about operationalising this in order to get a way how this could be also compensated.

[Assistant] Yes, definitely. And what do you think the increasing role of market based instruments such as biodiversity offsetting have in reversing biodiversity loss? Broadly speaking - do you think it can advance progress towards the NATURA 2000 goals or it might undermine progress?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Sure, yep.

[Assistant] Having worked on one of the pilot offsetting schemes you will be able to give a good insight into the design and implementation aspects.

[User] Hopefully so, yes.

[Assistant] So, to start, perhaps the most divisive debate around offsetting is its implications for development red tape. So, if I can begin by asking you - do you think biodiversity offsets are likely to lead to tighter or less stringent regulations around infrastructure projects?

[User] That's a good question, my personal feeling is that actually the mainstreaming of offsetting actually has the potential simplify the development process by making decision making more transparent. From my own perspective, obviously biodiversity offsetting is a way of delivering compensation for impacts which can't be avoided or mitigated against. Part of my role is to comment on planning applications and that very often leads to debate with developers and their ecologists about whether mitigation or compensation is being provided on their sites. At the moment, that is fairly subjective, depending on whether you work for the developer or not and how that affects your view on whether you think appropriate or sufficient mitigation or compensation is being provided. And at the moment it is a fairly subjective thing - my view is that offsetting or more specifically the use of a metric where losses and gains can actually be quantified with a numeric value will simplify that process, make it more transparent, make it less sort of subjective and potentially controversial, hopefully streamline the process. I think the use of the metric can be incorporated into standard ecological assessment which can be made as part of a phase 1 habitat survey fairly easily and would expedite negotiations about the extent and suitability of mitigation - so in that respect I think it would potentially make things easier for a developer because everyone knows you have got the figures in black and white in front of you.

[Assistant] And how effective do you think the metric is as a conceptual tool in terms of the parameters you are considering when you are undertaking offsetting - do you think it considers the right amount, too many, too few.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, well I think the national planning policy framework does refer to no net loss and possibly it even mentions net gain, yes it talks about 'moving from a net loss of biodiversity to achieving net gains for the future’. Yes, I mean, it's very easy to talk about no net loss and as I say, that is already in there in national policy but I don't think we are currently in a situation where we are achieving no net loss and we are certainly not achieving net gain. So I guess the question is would biodiversity offsetting help to strengthen the move towards no net loss and hopefully net gain and I think in terms of actually better capturing and quantifying losses and gains arising from developments through the metric, I think that it would potentially help deliver no net loss.

[Assistant] And do you think there is a difference between a no net loss policy goal and a no loss policy goal - the no loss being previously enshrined at the policy level.

[User] Well, I would imagine so - No loss would mean no development at all affecting sites of ecological importance which in the real world is never going to happen. Obviously, no net loss allows for there to be some losses as long as they are replaced elsewhere. But as I say I don't think that is currently realistically happening.

[Assistant] And how can you see the offsetting being diffused around the UK after... are the offsetting pilots now finished?

[User] They are, yes, they formally finished in April yes.

[Assistant] Can you see it being up-scaled and now implemented as a policy tool for the UK or do you think there still needs to be some work done.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, I would imagine so - No loss would mean no development at all affecting sites of ecological importance which in the real world is never going to happen. Obviously, no net loss allows for there to be some losses as long as they are replaced elsewhere. But as I say I don't think that is currently realistically happening.

[Assistant] And how can you see the offsetting being diffused around the UK after... are the offsetting pilots now finished?

[User] They are, yes, they formally finished in April yes.

[Assistant] Can you see it being up-scaled and now implemented as a policy tool for the UK or do you think there still needs to be some work done.

[User] I don't know, there is meant to be an evaluation report being produced which looks at all six of the pilots and their experiences and will presumably be making recommendations about perhaps fine tuning of offsetting and then whether or not it will be rolled out nationally. My understanding is that that report was meant to be produced at the end of July and it hasn't been and the rumour is: no decision on offsetting and presumably publication of any reports is now going to happen till after the general election, presumably because it is seen as a bit of an emotive subject. So, yes, to be honest, it is anyones guess as to whether it is going to be rolled out. I don't think there is anything stopping local authorities deciding that they want to use biodiversity offsetting. But I would be very surprised if any really take it and run with it until there has been a formal decision from government about it. To be honest, it is a bit of an unknown at the moment that one.

[Assistant] Thanks, that's interesting. These are just in the next section on the equity considerations. When you have been undertaking offsets do you think compensating affected communities, social communities, not ecological, is always necessary and is it always practical?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In principal yes, I would have thought so, I guess as long as that doesn't infringe upon the ecological needs of the offset. In principal yes, but I don't know how that could or should be formally incorporated in the biodiversity offsetting approach but I don't see why in principle it couldn't be applied.

[Assistant] OK, and have issues related to social compensation been adequately discussed in the design and implementation stages even if they are not explicitly represented in the metric?

[User] To be honest I don't know and I suspect they probably haven't, I mean, as I say I think the metric in biodiversity offsetting is purely focused on ecological impacts rather than social, wider social impacts. So, the issue has been flagged up, but I don't think it has been properly given consideration.

[Assistant] And what is your opinion regarding the use of biodiversity offsetting as a market based tool in terms of developing an ecosystem marketplace and trading offsets between different areas economically.

[User] I think there is a lot of controversy about this isn't there and the sort of putting a price of nature and giving everything a value and if everything had a value then everything can be bought and sold and is tradeable and you sort of lose the argument about the intrinsic value of nature and protecting things for their own sake. But that said, we live in an economic world, my - this might be a little bit tangent - but my personal view is that at the moment the true ecological cost of development isn't properly captured. I think in a lot of cases developers effectively get away with probably providing less mitigation or compensation than they should do if the mitigation hierarchy was absolutely adhered to. One of my concerns is that offsetting might end up costing developers more because they are suddenly going to be made to deliver the right amount of ecological compensation which they haven't previously had to and inevitably that is going to end up costing them more money. So, as I said that's probably a bit tangential.

[Assistant] No, that's all brilliant, do you think in general biodiversity units can be translated into economic terms?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand that my participation is voluntary, and then I am free to with any time without any reason and that I can decline to answer any question during the interview.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand the information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study I give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for you some future research for teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymize first


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand the information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study I give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for you some future research for teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymize first

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand that the interview will be audio or video recorded according to my preference typed in that all my identifying personal details will be removed.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for you some future research for teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymize first

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand that the interview will be audio or video recorded according to my preference typed in that all my identifying personal details will be removed.

[User] I agree

[Assistant] I understand the direct quotations may be taken from what I say and use in research and publications, but I will not be identifiable from these quotations.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] I understand that the interview will be audio or video recorded according to my preference typed in that all my identifying personal details will be removed.

[User] I agree

[Assistant] I understand the direct quotations may be taken from what I say and use in research and publications, but I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

[User] I agree

[Assistant] I agree to take part in this study.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I agree

[Assistant] I understand the direct quotations may be taken from what I say and use in research and publications, but I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

[User] I agree

[Assistant] I agree to take part in this study.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] Excellent. And then there's just two others here. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. Upon completion of the study. Please say yes now.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I agree

[Assistant] I agree to take part in this study.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] Excellent. And then there's just two others here. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. Upon completion of the study. Please say yes now.

[User] Yes, please.

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. So my dissertation will be finished in August. So you'll expect to get that around. Then I'll send that address you provided. And if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents. Please say yes now to receive a hard copy you will need to provide your mailing address


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I agree.

[Assistant] Excellent. And then there's just two others here. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. Upon completion of the study. Please say yes now.

[User] Yes, please.

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. So my dissertation will be finished in August. So you'll expect to get that around. Then I'll send that address you provided. And if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents. Please say yes now to receive a hard copy you will need to provide your mailing address

[User] No, no need for a hard copy.

[Assistant] All right, so that's that out of the way so thank you for that. And we can go ahead and kind of dive in here. So my first questions are just kind of helped me get to know your child, a little better and to help me sort of understand what you know about the flu. Um, so you have one child is that right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes, please.

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. So my dissertation will be finished in August. So you'll expect to get that around. Then I'll send that address you provided. And if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents. Please say yes now to receive a hard copy you will need to provide your mailing address

[User] No, no need for a hard copy.

[Assistant] All right, so that's that out of the way so thank you for that. And we can go ahead and kind of dive in here. So my first questions are just kind of helped me get to know your child, a little better and to help me sort of understand what you know about the flu. Um, so you have one child is that right?

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] And they're three years old?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] And they're three years old?

[User] Yes. Yeah, she turned three, little girl called [Child], and she turned three in April.

[Assistant] [Child]?

[User] Yeah [Child].

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, so can you tell me a little bit about her? Like what kind of things does she like to do? you know how, how things are being at home right now?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah [Child].

[Assistant] Okay. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, so can you tell me a little bit about her? Like what kind of things does she like to do? you know how, how things are being at home right now?

[User] Yeah, everything. Yeah. She's really good. And yeah, she's like just any three year old little girl. She's full of energy and really um, like in terms of, like sort of health. We haven't, she doesn't have any health problems. We have been very lucky and until like about 10 months old she hadn't even like had a temperature or been unwell or anything like that. Um, so yeah, she's just a great little girl and she loves Dora the Explorer and princesses and all the kinds of things you'd expect of a of a three year old.

[Assistant] Yeah

[User] Yeah, obviously she's at home at the minute, and she's doing really well. She's a really sweet spot age where it doesn't, it doesn't really come into her, shes just happy at the moment that mum and dad are around constantly and, she wasn't a massive fan of nursery. I mean she has friends and she loves it when she gets there, but she's not she's not really into it, she doesn't run in there or anything. So she's really enjoying herself, she's living her best life!

[Assistant] Yeah, I think, I think for a lot of children her age. It's really more about how the parents are doing because, you know, like you said, they're just happy to have everyone around and having everyone's attention all the time.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, everything. Yeah. She's really good. And yeah, she's like just any three year old little girl. She's full of energy and really um, like in terms of, like sort of health. We haven't, she doesn't have any health problems. We have been very lucky and until like about 10 months old she hadn't even like had a temperature or been unwell or anything like that. Um, so yeah, she's just a great little girl and she loves Dora the Explorer and princesses and all the kinds of things you'd expect of a of a three year old.

[Assistant] Yeah

[User] Yeah, obviously she's at home at the minute, and she's doing really well. She's a really sweet spot age where it doesn't, it doesn't really come into her, shes just happy at the moment that mum and dad are around constantly and, she wasn't a massive fan of nursery. I mean she has friends and she loves it when she gets there, but she's not she's not really into it, she doesn't run in there or anything. So she's really enjoying herself, she's living her best life!

[Assistant] Yeah, I think, I think for a lot of children her age. It's really more about how the parents are doing because, you know, like you said, they're just happy to have everyone around and having everyone's attention all the time.

[User] Totally, yeah.

[Assistant] So can you tell me kind of what you know about the flu? Just anything that comes to mind when you think about the flu.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, obviously she's at home at the minute, and she's doing really well. She's a really sweet spot age where it doesn't, it doesn't really come into her, shes just happy at the moment that mum and dad are around constantly and, she wasn't a massive fan of nursery. I mean she has friends and she loves it when she gets there, but she's not she's not really into it, she doesn't run in there or anything. So she's really enjoying herself, she's living her best life!

[Assistant] Yeah, I think, I think for a lot of children her age. It's really more about how the parents are doing because, you know, like you said, they're just happy to have everyone around and having everyone's attention all the time.

[User] Totally, yeah.

[Assistant] So can you tell me kind of what you know about the flu? Just anything that comes to mind when you think about the flu.

[User] Yeah, so seasonal mainly around kind of the winter period and and that we get, we can sometimes get worst flu seasons than other flu seasons. Um, I suppose the difference, like knowing whether, you know, you've got, you've had flu or not. I don't like, I always get, like I said, people say, "Oh, I've got flu", but then other people are like, "no, I really, really had flu" and that it can absolutely floor some people, and some people can just feel a bit under the weather. And and I suppose that, like something that I've noticed over recent years, is that sort of flu can, like the strain of it, can change. So different years we have different strains of flu and that there's like lots of different flus.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. So do you worry about your daughter, getting the flu or is it something that you know like, can you give me a sense for sort of how you feel about that when you think about your daughter potentially getting the flu?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, I think it's not something, I think I worried about it more, when she was younger and in probably the first one to two years because partly because of the worry of whether it was flu or something else like meningitis or anything like that. If she was to come down with symptoms would we know was flu or not? and and... Yeah, really. I mean, she's so, she's so, healthy for the most part, touch wood, that we don't. It's not something that enters my mind as something that's going to happen. Although obviously with recent, the recent pandemic proves that it can have, you know, people can get ill anytime regardless. But generally, and we've not been too worried because, we've not, as she's never had any real health complaints, we don't necessarily. It's not something that preoccupies us

[Assistant] Yeah, that makes sense. So the worry when she was younger was sort of just general? you know, you would have worried about any illness is that—

[User] Yeah. Hello, sorry.

[Assistant] No problem. [Participant is speaking to her child]

[User] Yeah, I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?

[Assistant] Oh no, I think we just, we were just finished, just finishing, your thought. I think I was clarifying that when she was younger, you, it's like you were just worried about like any illness really, and not, you know, not knowing what she had. But as she gets a little older, it seems like you just worry a little less maybe?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah. Hello, sorry.

[Assistant] No problem. [Participant is speaking to her child]

[User] Yeah, I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?

[Assistant] Oh no, I think we just, we were just finished, just finishing, your thought. I think I was clarifying that when she was younger, you, it's like you were just worried about like any illness really, and not, you know, not knowing what she had. But as she gets a little older, it seems like you just worry a little less maybe?

[User] I think a big part of that is communication. So when they're very young. They cant communicate why there are, that they're unwell and what the symptoms are. Whereas now, you know, she could communicate more and I think there's just a general, the only concern is that, that something would come on so fast that we couldn't respond to it. I suppose flu wouldn't have been in my mind or something, because flu in my mind would be something that would slowly sort of gather pace. Whereas something like meningitis or something like that. Might sort of just happen in a flash and all the sudden she goes pale or something, you know, all that kind of, you know, all the signs you're told to look out for. So as opposed, flu wasn't my main thought in my mind. My mind was probably more triggered by the kind of more immediate quick really like a ring 999 emergency sort of conditions.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So you almost sort of started talking about sort of my next question here. Can you tell me what you think getting sick with the flu is like for children? Like the symptoms, what do you expect them to to look like, you know, what do you expect? Can you tell me what you think about that?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I don't see a cough, more like just like feeling really under the weather and temperatures and sort of subduedness would be what expect to see from flu in my mind.

[Assistant] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So do you know anyone whose child has gotten ill with the flu, you know, maybe any of her friends that you know you might know the parents or anything like that?

[User] No, I'm sure they will have been. But it's like flu, it just feels so common place that if I heard like one of my friends kids that had flu, I'd be like "Aw that's really bad". I think the things that probably more like "Oooh", like they stick in my mind, is when children get things like hand, foot, mouth, or whatever it is. or like slap cheek? All these like really bizarre sounding things, which actually turned out to be really common. You just don't hear them as much about as flu. Like, I feel like flu would almost be like "oh yeah that's bad but loads of people get flu".

[Assistant] Yeah, right.

[User] Yeah. Like if someone had like hand, foot, mouth for those things I'd be like, "ooh, what's that?", yeah, they probably stick in my mind more.

[Assistant] Yeah. So yeah, so it sounds like what you're saying is, like, maybe it has happened and it just doesn't you know, just didn't seem significant really at the time it was a thing that just happens to people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, I'm sure they will have been. But it's like flu, it just feels so common place that if I heard like one of my friends kids that had flu, I'd be like "Aw that's really bad". I think the things that probably more like "Oooh", like they stick in my mind, is when children get things like hand, foot, mouth, or whatever it is. or like slap cheek? All these like really bizarre sounding things, which actually turned out to be really common. You just don't hear them as much about as flu. Like, I feel like flu would almost be like "oh yeah that's bad but loads of people get flu".

[Assistant] Yeah, right.

[User] Yeah. Like if someone had like hand, foot, mouth for those things I'd be like, "ooh, what's that?", yeah, they probably stick in my mind more.

[Assistant] Yeah. So yeah, so it sounds like what you're saying is, like, maybe it has happened and it just doesn't you know, just didn't seem significant really at the time it was a thing that just happens to people.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] Yeah, that's interesting. Thank you. So when you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu for example, where would you go to get that information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah. Like if someone had like hand, foot, mouth for those things I'd be like, "ooh, what's that?", yeah, they probably stick in my mind more.

[Assistant] Yeah. So yeah, so it sounds like what you're saying is, like, maybe it has happened and it just doesn't you know, just didn't seem significant really at the time it was a thing that just happens to people.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] Yeah, that's interesting. Thank you. So when you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu for example, where would you go to get that information?

[User] Ah, mainly NHS online. Um, we did get given like a little book when [Child] was born and which was an attempt, I know it was an attempt, to stop people going to 111 or calling, or go to the GP surgery. I can't remember. Was it like a red book or green book? It's sort of like seem to be the book to go to. And it's got lots of flaps for lots of child le yes

[Assistant] Yeah, the Orange Book.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] Yeah, that's interesting. Thank you. So when you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu for example, where would you go to get that information?

[User] Ah, mainly NHS online. Um, we did get given like a little book when [Child] was born and which was an attempt, I know it was an attempt, to stop people going to 111 or calling, or go to the GP surgery. I can't remember. Was it like a red book or green book? It's sort of like seem to be the book to go to. And it's got lots of flaps for lots of child le yes

[Assistant] Yeah, the Orange Book.

[User] Ah right, thats it! But to be honest, um it wasn't intuitive to use, even though, like if there wasn't this Google and there's the NHS website and that just feels more immediate. I just I say, I type the words and so I would look at that. And I would probably look at that and I would probably pay attention when the BBC or other main news outlets were reporting on flu, I'd probably sort of listen or read an article. So if they're kind of saying "we're expecting a really bad flu season" or something like that, I'd probably pay attention to that kind of media. But mainly I would just go onto NHS online for a quick read, but quite quickly after that if I had any concerns, I'd ring 111. I definitely have done previously, Id leave the Orange Book... I just, the Orange Book just felt like let sometimes when you're flicking through it. It's like, it just felt like taking the time to flick through. It was like wasting time finding out, which almost like now I'm saying it to you, sounds insane and, you know...

[Assistant] No, it makes sense because it sounds like what you're saying is, you know, why would you bother like to look through this book when you can get the information quickly online.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Ah, mainly NHS online. Um, we did get given like a little book when [Child] was born and which was an attempt, I know it was an attempt, to stop people going to 111 or calling, or go to the GP surgery. I can't remember. Was it like a red book or green book? It's sort of like seem to be the book to go to. And it's got lots of flaps for lots of child le yes

[Assistant] Yeah, the Orange Book.

[User] Ah right, thats it! But to be honest, um it wasn't intuitive to use, even though, like if there wasn't this Google and there's the NHS website and that just feels more immediate. I just I say, I type the words and so I would look at that. And I would probably look at that and I would probably pay attention when the BBC or other main news outlets were reporting on flu, I'd probably sort of listen or read an article. So if they're kind of saying "we're expecting a really bad flu season" or something like that, I'd probably pay attention to that kind of media. But mainly I would just go onto NHS online for a quick read, but quite quickly after that if I had any concerns, I'd ring 111. I definitely have done previously, Id leave the Orange Book... I just, the Orange Book just felt like let sometimes when you're flicking through it. It's like, it just felt like taking the time to flick through. It was like wasting time finding out, which almost like now I'm saying it to you, sounds insane and, you know...

[Assistant] No, it makes sense because it sounds like what you're saying is, you know, why would you bother like to look through this book when you can get the information quickly online.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Why would you bother to look for something that may or may not be in there? You can go straight to, you know, 111 and talk to someone, or go straight to the NHS website it's, you know, whatever is more convenient whatever is faster. I think makes sense to me.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Ah right, thats it! But to be honest, um it wasn't intuitive to use, even though, like if there wasn't this Google and there's the NHS website and that just feels more immediate. I just I say, I type the words and so I would look at that. And I would probably look at that and I would probably pay attention when the BBC or other main news outlets were reporting on flu, I'd probably sort of listen or read an article. So if they're kind of saying "we're expecting a really bad flu season" or something like that, I'd probably pay attention to that kind of media. But mainly I would just go onto NHS online for a quick read, but quite quickly after that if I had any concerns, I'd ring 111. I definitely have done previously, Id leave the Orange Book... I just, the Orange Book just felt like let sometimes when you're flicking through it. It's like, it just felt like taking the time to flick through. It was like wasting time finding out, which almost like now I'm saying it to you, sounds insane and, you know...

[Assistant] No, it makes sense because it sounds like what you're saying is, you know, why would you bother like to look through this book when you can get the information quickly online.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Why would you bother to look for something that may or may not be in there? You can go straight to, you know, 111 and talk to someone, or go straight to the NHS website it's, you know, whatever is more convenient whatever is faster. I think makes sense to me.

[User] Yeah, exactly.

[Assistant] Have you ever talked to your daughter's GP about the flu or to like any other health care professional?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] Why would you bother to look for something that may or may not be in there? You can go straight to, you know, 111 and talk to someone, or go straight to the NHS website it's, you know, whatever is more convenient whatever is faster. I think makes sense to me.

[User] Yeah, exactly.

[Assistant] Have you ever talked to your daughter's GP about the flu or to like any other health care professional?

[User] Not really, Hang on a second. I'm gonna-- [Participant is speaking to her child]

[Assistant] Yeah, no, no problem at all. So the, the question we were talking about was, Have you ever talked to your daughter's GP or doing other healthcare professional about the flu?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, exactly.

[Assistant] Have you ever talked to your daughter's GP about the flu or to like any other health care professional?

[User] Not really, Hang on a second. I'm gonna-- [Participant is speaking to her child]

[Assistant] Yeah, no, no problem at all. So the, the question we were talking about was, Have you ever talked to your daughter's GP or doing other healthcare professional about the flu?

[User] No, not specifically. I don't think we've ever suspected she had flu. So that would be the only time that I would probably talk to the GP or nurse practitioner and about it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Makes sense. Um, so my next sort of set of questions just help me learn your thoughts about the flu vaccine and whether or not something that you know, you think would be helpful for your daughter. Uh, what do you think the benefits are for your from getting the flu vaccine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Not really, Hang on a second. I'm gonna-- [Participant is speaking to her child]

[Assistant] Yeah, no, no problem at all. So the, the question we were talking about was, Have you ever talked to your daughter's GP or doing other healthcare professional about the flu?

[User] No, not specifically. I don't think we've ever suspected she had flu. So that would be the only time that I would probably talk to the GP or nurse practitioner and about it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Makes sense. Um, so my next sort of set of questions just help me learn your thoughts about the flu vaccine and whether or not something that you know, you think would be helpful for your daughter. Uh, what do you think the benefits are for your from getting the flu vaccine?

[User] Um, that she was protected from whatever strains the clever people in the laboratories think were most dangerous in that winter period. Um, I don't think I ever think she's getting totally covered, but getting protected from more severe ones, strains. I suppose, because she goes to nursery as well. I felt like it gave her some. So, she just started going to nursery at 10 months and that was literally when she started becoming ill, which then in my mind makes me associate it with when she started mingling with more kids not to say that she didn't see kids, but not to the same level and intensity. And that was when she started to get like sniffles and stuff like that. And it was probably about the time we stopped breastfeeding as well. So the whole thing kind of came up when she got there. So, I think in terms of the benefits, there was being, being, I suppose, more protected when she was around more children as well. And so the more risk of catching it was limited.

[Assistant] Yeah, now that that makes that makes a lot of sense to me. You know, I think. That that age range when they're making the transition to suddenly having all these peers around, I think it makes sense that that's a time when you start thinking about protection.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, not specifically. I don't think we've ever suspected she had flu. So that would be the only time that I would probably talk to the GP or nurse practitioner and about it.

[Assistant] Yeah. Makes sense. Um, so my next sort of set of questions just help me learn your thoughts about the flu vaccine and whether or not something that you know, you think would be helpful for your daughter. Uh, what do you think the benefits are for your from getting the flu vaccine?

[User] Um, that she was protected from whatever strains the clever people in the laboratories think were most dangerous in that winter period. Um, I don't think I ever think she's getting totally covered, but getting protected from more severe ones, strains. I suppose, because she goes to nursery as well. I felt like it gave her some. So, she just started going to nursery at 10 months and that was literally when she started becoming ill, which then in my mind makes me associate it with when she started mingling with more kids not to say that she didn't see kids, but not to the same level and intensity. And that was when she started to get like sniffles and stuff like that. And it was probably about the time we stopped breastfeeding as well. So the whole thing kind of came up when she got there. So, I think in terms of the benefits, there was being, being, I suppose, more protected when she was around more children as well. And so the more risk of catching it was limited.

[Assistant] Yeah, now that that makes that makes a lot of sense to me. You know, I think. That that age range when they're making the transition to suddenly having all these peers around, I think it makes sense that that's a time when you start thinking about protection.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] Do you think there are any downsides to your daughter getting the flu vaccine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Um, that she was protected from whatever strains the clever people in the laboratories think were most dangerous in that winter period. Um, I don't think I ever think she's getting totally covered, but getting protected from more severe ones, strains. I suppose, because she goes to nursery as well. I felt like it gave her some. So, she just started going to nursery at 10 months and that was literally when she started becoming ill, which then in my mind makes me associate it with when she started mingling with more kids not to say that she didn't see kids, but not to the same level and intensity. And that was when she started to get like sniffles and stuff like that. And it was probably about the time we stopped breastfeeding as well. So the whole thing kind of came up when she got there. So, I think in terms of the benefits, there was being, being, I suppose, more protected when she was around more children as well. And so the more risk of catching it was limited.

[Assistant] Yeah, now that that makes that makes a lot of sense to me. You know, I think. That that age range when they're making the transition to suddenly having all these peers around, I think it makes sense that that's a time when you start thinking about protection.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] Do you think there are any downsides to your daughter getting the flu vaccine?

[User] The only one would be the um, the kind of, any side effects, but I don't, I don't, think I, don't think she had any side effects when she had it um... but yeah, that that would be the only downside would be side effects. And also because because it was a nasal spray it was even less intrusive. I suppose that you know the other vaccines, they kind of give her sore arms, are more uncomfortable and more painful but this didn't even have that. So, and that wasn't a disadvantage of this immunization, yeah.

[Assistant] Um, so if you want to learn more about vaccine, like, you know, side effects, benefits or even like whether your daughter should get this vaccine. Where do you go to get that information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] Do you think there are any downsides to your daughter getting the flu vaccine?

[User] The only one would be the um, the kind of, any side effects, but I don't, I don't, think I, don't think she had any side effects when she had it um... but yeah, that that would be the only downside would be side effects. And also because because it was a nasal spray it was even less intrusive. I suppose that you know the other vaccines, they kind of give her sore arms, are more uncomfortable and more painful but this didn't even have that. So, and that wasn't a disadvantage of this immunization, yeah.

[Assistant] Um, so if you want to learn more about vaccine, like, you know, side effects, benefits or even like whether your daughter should get this vaccine. Where do you go to get that information?

[User] Ah NHS again, website. I stay very clear of mummy blogs and mummy websites and forums. Because yeah, they just really rial me more than I find that supportive or reassuring. So, and yeah, it would just be the NHS website and I suppose I might have, I might have talked to the nurse or GP about it. But generally, as well I think I just probably absorbed media around it and the kind of public discourse about the importance of vaccines and stuff like that. And it might have a little bit to do with the type of role I'm in. In terms of hearing about benefits of different things and health, vaccines as well might have an impact. So it's probably just absorbed the media, the positive media around the importance of the vaccine and and then yeah, I would read about the pros and cons on NHS website.

[Assistant] Yeah. And so your daughter was vaccinated this flu season, is that corrrect?