[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well again I say that for those who are in study, the information is good.

[Assistant] Why?

[User] Because they have the papers that are already pre-signed to get the information that you want and there’s a channel of information to even consult work to get and follow. That one among the study, they are good. Those ones who are not in the study, the general cardiologists, we keep in our book. We have two registers one if you are going to do the echo we register you, second in the Computer we put results then actually there’s a 3rd one for the general clinic for the nurse to keep track. But it may not go to the details of the hospital, I don't know how often it goes because it stays in.

[Assistant] It stays in your place!

[User] Yes. Unless the hospital records person comes looking for them.

[Assistant] Do you have specific registers for ARF and RHD?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Because they have the papers that are already pre-signed to get the information that you want and there’s a channel of information to even consult work to get and follow. That one among the study, they are good. Those ones who are not in the study, the general cardiologists, we keep in our book. We have two registers one if you are going to do the echo we register you, second in the Computer we put results then actually there’s a 3rd one for the general clinic for the nurse to keep track. But it may not go to the details of the hospital, I don't know how often it goes because it stays in.

[Assistant] It stays in your place!

[User] Yes. Unless the hospital records person comes looking for them.

[Assistant] Do you have specific registers for ARF and RHD?

[User] Those in the study have while those who are not in the study are in the general cardiology register.

[Assistant] okay. do you have guidelines and protocols for RHD care?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes. Unless the hospital records person comes looking for them.

[Assistant] Do you have specific registers for ARF and RHD?

[User] Those in the study have while those who are not in the study are in the general cardiology register.

[Assistant] okay. do you have guidelines and protocols for RHD care?

[User] Those in the study, yes. Those not in the study, is part of the general cardiology.

[Assistant] It is the general cardiology. Okay.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Those in the study have while those who are not in the study are in the general cardiology register.

[Assistant] okay. do you have guidelines and protocols for RHD care?

[User] Those in the study, yes. Those not in the study, is part of the general cardiology.

[Assistant] It is the general cardiology. Okay.

[User] And it is like this clinician’s discretion when RHD has been assumed properly, understood and mastered. So we assume that really every doctor should understand the protocols we treat very well.

[Assistant] Yeah, because sometimes they need to refer back will they be available?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Those in the study, yes. Those not in the study, is part of the general cardiology.

[Assistant] It is the general cardiology. Okay.

[User] And it is like this clinician’s discretion when RHD has been assumed properly, understood and mastered. So we assume that really every doctor should understand the protocols we treat very well.

[Assistant] Yeah, because sometimes they need to refer back will they be available?

[User] Yes. The good thing is that I have told you that at least 2 physicians have some cardiology training.

[Assistant] Okay, that’s good. So for all the things I have mentioned, administration, funding, health care or workers, the numbers, medication, information flow and protocols. Let's look at the things which are working for you. You said the administration is okay!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] And it is like this clinician’s discretion when RHD has been assumed properly, understood and mastered. So we assume that really every doctor should understand the protocols we treat very well.

[Assistant] Yeah, because sometimes they need to refer back will they be available?

[User] Yes. The good thing is that I have told you that at least 2 physicians have some cardiology training.

[Assistant] Okay, that’s good. So for all the things I have mentioned, administration, funding, health care or workers, the numbers, medication, information flow and protocols. Let's look at the things which are working for you. You said the administration is okay!

[User] It okay. It is trying.

[Assistant] Okay. Funding for rhd?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes. The good thing is that I have told you that at least 2 physicians have some cardiology training.

[Assistant] Okay, that’s good. So for all the things I have mentioned, administration, funding, health care or workers, the numbers, medication, information flow and protocols. Let's look at the things which are working for you. You said the administration is okay!

[User] It okay. It is trying.

[Assistant] Okay. Funding for rhd?

[User] In the study yes, outside the study, no.

[Assistant] The health work force, you said you have?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It okay. It is trying.

[Assistant] Okay. Funding for rhd?

[User] In the study yes, outside the study, no.

[Assistant] The health work force, you said you have?

[User] For the doctors yes, the nurses no, because we only have one nurse in the clinic.

[Assistant] No! For the medication you couldn't say much because you said you don't know.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] In the study yes, outside the study, no.

[Assistant] The health work force, you said you have?

[User] For the doctors yes, the nurses no, because we only have one nurse in the clinic.

[Assistant] No! For the medication you couldn't say much because you said you don't know.

[User] I don't know!

[Assistant] At least for diagnostics you have.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I don't know!

[Assistant] At least for diagnostics you have.

[User] We are doing fairly well.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Even though it's a bit expensive.

[Assistant] For the health information you said um?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We are doing fairly well.

[Assistant] Okay.

[User] Even though it's a bit expensive.

[Assistant] For the health information you said um?

[User] It is 50/50 because we gather the information but I don't know what happens to it afterwards.

[Assistant] Okay. The guidelines and protocols?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Even though it's a bit expensive.

[Assistant] For the health information you said um?

[User] It is 50/50 because we gather the information but I don't know what happens to it afterwards.

[Assistant] Okay. The guidelines and protocols?

[User] We don't have the official protocol for those who are not in the study. For those in the study they have.

[Assistant] Okay, wonderful. So let’s look at the last set of question; we are looking at your perceptions about patients out comes. Generally do think our patients are getting the care they need?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It is 50/50 because we gather the information but I don't know what happens to it afterwards.

[Assistant] Okay. The guidelines and protocols?

[User] We don't have the official protocol for those who are not in the study. For those in the study they have.

[Assistant] Okay, wonderful. So let’s look at the last set of question; we are looking at your perceptions about patients out comes. Generally do think our patients are getting the care they need?

[User] Yes and no. Yes, because they get the diagnosis, the first part of care and get basic treatment.

[Assistant] They get basic!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We don't have the official protocol for those who are not in the study. For those in the study they have.

[Assistant] Okay, wonderful. So let’s look at the last set of question; we are looking at your perceptions about patients out comes. Generally do think our patients are getting the care they need?

[User] Yes and no. Yes, because they get the diagnosis, the first part of care and get basic treatment.

[Assistant] They get basic!

[User] Basic treatment where I mean we give Penicillin, we give the PEN-V, the Benzathine and a few anti-failure drugs. But I want to tell you that RHD is a surgical disease; many patients who come to us with heart failure need surgery and on that we score zero because they don’t get the surgery. Are you getting me?

[Assistant] Yes. I am getting you.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes and no. Yes, because they get the diagnosis, the first part of care and get basic treatment.

[Assistant] They get basic!

[User] Basic treatment where I mean we give Penicillin, we give the PEN-V, the Benzathine and a few anti-failure drugs. But I want to tell you that RHD is a surgical disease; many patients who come to us with heart failure need surgery and on that we score zero because they don’t get the surgery. Are you getting me?

[Assistant] Yes. I am getting you.

[User] Because if it’s already RHD giving you heart failure, even you give them Penicillin for whichever amount, it won’t get cured. They still need the surgery to repair the valve or replace it. So there we score very badly.

[Assistant] So what do you do for those patients?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Basic treatment where I mean we give Penicillin, we give the PEN-V, the Benzathine and a few anti-failure drugs. But I want to tell you that RHD is a surgical disease; many patients who come to us with heart failure need surgery and on that we score zero because they don’t get the surgery. Are you getting me?

[Assistant] Yes. I am getting you.

[User] Because if it’s already RHD giving you heart failure, even you give them Penicillin for whichever amount, it won’t get cured. They still need the surgery to repair the valve or replace it. So there we score very badly.

[Assistant] So what do you do for those patients?

[User] We talk to them about moving to the Heart Institute because that’s where they can get the surgery. But I also know the waiting line for those who need surgery at the heart institute is very long. It is very long because surgery is expensive, the little time I was there, most times patients were waiting for camps, those who have money. And again I told you also that if your case is so advanced you are not encouraged for surgery, you are a candidate for palliation and that is very bad for RHD. But if you have heart failure from RHD, it means your RHD is already advanced and medicine will not cure you; you will take them to slow its progression or stop you from having heart failure for some time but you must get surgery to be cured but we don’t have the surgery here. And let me tell you also, when you tell somebody to go to Heart Institute, Mulago- Kampala from here in Mbarara, that is a death sentence; they fear there, whether you tell them things are going to be okay, they fear.

[Assistant] What do they fear in Mulago?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Because if it’s already RHD giving you heart failure, even you give them Penicillin for whichever amount, it won’t get cured. They still need the surgery to repair the valve or replace it. So there we score very badly.

[Assistant] So what do you do for those patients?

[User] We talk to them about moving to the Heart Institute because that’s where they can get the surgery. But I also know the waiting line for those who need surgery at the heart institute is very long. It is very long because surgery is expensive, the little time I was there, most times patients were waiting for camps, those who have money. And again I told you also that if your case is so advanced you are not encouraged for surgery, you are a candidate for palliation and that is very bad for RHD. But if you have heart failure from RHD, it means your RHD is already advanced and medicine will not cure you; you will take them to slow its progression or stop you from having heart failure for some time but you must get surgery to be cured but we don’t have the surgery here. And let me tell you also, when you tell somebody to go to Heart Institute, Mulago- Kampala from here in Mbarara, that is a death sentence; they fear there, whether you tell them things are going to be okay, they fear.

[Assistant] What do they fear in Mulago?

[User] It’s a new place; somebody has never been to Kampala and then the fear of money. They say “eh, to operate the heart is expensive.” Then they also have some hearsay about heart surgery, maybe relatives who were operated and died. So they say, “eh when they touch your heart, you will die” Unfortunately, some cases may be true, maybe someone died after heart surgery so if somebody hears about it they misunderstand it. So there’s a big fear for going for surgery.

[Assistant] Okay. So that means the communities these patients stay in also contribute to the attitude they have!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We talk to them about moving to the Heart Institute because that’s where they can get the surgery. But I also know the waiting line for those who need surgery at the heart institute is very long. It is very long because surgery is expensive, the little time I was there, most times patients were waiting for camps, those who have money. And again I told you also that if your case is so advanced you are not encouraged for surgery, you are a candidate for palliation and that is very bad for RHD. But if you have heart failure from RHD, it means your RHD is already advanced and medicine will not cure you; you will take them to slow its progression or stop you from having heart failure for some time but you must get surgery to be cured but we don’t have the surgery here. And let me tell you also, when you tell somebody to go to Heart Institute, Mulago- Kampala from here in Mbarara, that is a death sentence; they fear there, whether you tell them things are going to be okay, they fear.

[Assistant] What do they fear in Mulago?

[User] It’s a new place; somebody has never been to Kampala and then the fear of money. They say “eh, to operate the heart is expensive.” Then they also have some hearsay about heart surgery, maybe relatives who were operated and died. So they say, “eh when they touch your heart, you will die” Unfortunately, some cases may be true, maybe someone died after heart surgery so if somebody hears about it they misunderstand it. So there’s a big fear for going for surgery.

[Assistant] Okay. So that means the communities these patients stay in also contribute to the attitude they have!

[User] Definitely they contribute! When you ever tell someone that “you are going for heart surgery” or they need heart surgery, huh, they are already devastated because when they go back to the community and they say” I went and saw the doctor he really diagnosed the disease that I have heart problem and I will need operation/surgery” then they will go for herbal medicine.

[Assistant] They go for herbal medicine!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It’s a new place; somebody has never been to Kampala and then the fear of money. They say “eh, to operate the heart is expensive.” Then they also have some hearsay about heart surgery, maybe relatives who were operated and died. So they say, “eh when they touch your heart, you will die” Unfortunately, some cases may be true, maybe someone died after heart surgery so if somebody hears about it they misunderstand it. So there’s a big fear for going for surgery.

[Assistant] Okay. So that means the communities these patients stay in also contribute to the attitude they have!

[User] Definitely they contribute! When you ever tell someone that “you are going for heart surgery” or they need heart surgery, huh, they are already devastated because when they go back to the community and they say” I went and saw the doctor he really diagnosed the disease that I have heart problem and I will need operation/surgery” then they will go for herbal medicine.

[Assistant] They go for herbal medicine!

[User] Yes because they believe that “ah, heart surgery is too much; you are going to die. I better take this herbal.” They have a lot of perception then them for herbal medicine.

[Assistant] So when these patients tell their families that “I have RHD” are they encouraged? How are they ...?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Definitely they contribute! When you ever tell someone that “you are going for heart surgery” or they need heart surgery, huh, they are already devastated because when they go back to the community and they say” I went and saw the doctor he really diagnosed the disease that I have heart problem and I will need operation/surgery” then they will go for herbal medicine.

[Assistant] They go for herbal medicine!

[User] Yes because they believe that “ah, heart surgery is too much; you are going to die. I better take this herbal.” They have a lot of perception then them for herbal medicine.

[Assistant] So when these patients tell their families that “I have RHD” are they encouraged? How are they ...?

[User] They are shattered.

[Assistant] They are shattered!


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes because they believe that “ah, heart surgery is too much; you are going to die. I better take this herbal.” They have a lot of perception then them for herbal medicine.

[Assistant] So when these patients tell their families that “I have RHD” are they encouraged? How are they ...?

[User] They are shattered.

[Assistant] They are shattered!

[User] Me I have seen from experience; you tell somebody “your child has RHD” and you tell them what RHD is, general information, they are shattered. They start thinking that maybe they are cursed because there are not many people who get RHD how come only few get RHD. Then they start getting second opinions from very many people, unfortunately they get messed up by some people so where. So it is very bad news.

[Assistant] Do they specific local herbs they use if they don’t come?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They are shattered.

[Assistant] They are shattered!

[User] Me I have seen from experience; you tell somebody “your child has RHD” and you tell them what RHD is, general information, they are shattered. They start thinking that maybe they are cursed because there are not many people who get RHD how come only few get RHD. Then they start getting second opinions from very many people, unfortunately they get messed up by some people so where. So it is very bad news.

[Assistant] Do they specific local herbs they use if they don’t come?

[User] There are some famous herbs over the radio and a lot of adverts. Some herbs are maybe what, some people say they treat everything; diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, cancer and everything. So even if someone hears that one, even if I don’t mention names, it is even on the radio.

[Assistant] Because in Kampala especially in Buganda region, for sore throat there’s what they call omwetango that’s the common herb.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Me I have seen from experience; you tell somebody “your child has RHD” and you tell them what RHD is, general information, they are shattered. They start thinking that maybe they are cursed because there are not many people who get RHD how come only few get RHD. Then they start getting second opinions from very many people, unfortunately they get messed up by some people so where. So it is very bad news.

[Assistant] Do they specific local herbs they use if they don’t come?

[User] There are some famous herbs over the radio and a lot of adverts. Some herbs are maybe what, some people say they treat everything; diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, cancer and everything. So even if someone hears that one, even if I don’t mention names, it is even on the radio.

[Assistant] Because in Kampala especially in Buganda region, for sore throat there’s what they call omwetango that’s the common herb.

[User] Omwetango here is used for constipation.

[Assistant] They use it for constipation! Is there anything they use here for sore throat?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] There are some famous herbs over the radio and a lot of adverts. Some herbs are maybe what, some people say they treat everything; diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, cancer and everything. So even if someone hears that one, even if I don’t mention names, it is even on the radio.

[Assistant] Because in Kampala especially in Buganda region, for sore throat there’s what they call omwetango that’s the common herb.

[User] Omwetango here is used for constipation.

[Assistant] They use it for constipation! Is there anything they use here for sore throat?

[User] They use eucalyptus leaves, you make juice. Because that eucalyptus treats flu, it is actually real, it helps with flu. So some people run to it for sore throat.

[Assistant] Okay. So doctor do you have any patients’ safety concerns and quality of care ... Of course quality of care we handled, did you see any practice and you feel that it is putting their health at risk?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Omwetango here is used for constipation.

[Assistant] They use it for constipation! Is there anything they use here for sore throat?

[User] They use eucalyptus leaves, you make juice. Because that eucalyptus treats flu, it is actually real, it helps with flu. So some people run to it for sore throat.

[Assistant] Okay. So doctor do you have any patients’ safety concerns and quality of care ... Of course quality of care we handled, did you see any practice and you feel that it is putting their health at risk?

[User] Maybe anti-coagulants; Warfarin. In the study there’s ease of measuring INR, but outside the study, we are in the dark. We move in the dark.

[Assistant] You don’t know?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] They use eucalyptus leaves, you make juice. Because that eucalyptus treats flu, it is actually real, it helps with flu. So some people run to it for sore throat.

[Assistant] Okay. So doctor do you have any patients’ safety concerns and quality of care ... Of course quality of care we handled, did you see any practice and you feel that it is putting their health at risk?

[User] Maybe anti-coagulants; Warfarin. In the study there’s ease of measuring INR, but outside the study, we are in the dark. We move in the dark.

[Assistant] You don’t know?

[User] We move in the dark. We monitor it once a month when the patient comes back and you see there are some patients who don’t tolerate this simple 5mg of Warfarin and it’s the one available, the 1mgs, 2mg are in Kampala. So here we do 5mg, 10mg, 7mg and you are not going to see a patient next or another week; you will see a patient after one month or 2 months or wherever they come back. That puts them on at risk yet they need the warfarin.

[Assistant] Why is that here you have 5mg?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Maybe anti-coagulants; Warfarin. In the study there’s ease of measuring INR, but outside the study, we are in the dark. We move in the dark.

[Assistant] You don’t know?

[User] We move in the dark. We monitor it once a month when the patient comes back and you see there are some patients who don’t tolerate this simple 5mg of Warfarin and it’s the one available, the 1mgs, 2mg are in Kampala. So here we do 5mg, 10mg, 7mg and you are not going to see a patient next or another week; you will see a patient after one month or 2 months or wherever they come back. That puts them on at risk yet they need the warfarin.

[Assistant] Why is that here you have 5mg?

[User] It’s what is on the market. You see the market forces of pharmacies, you will not stock 1mg when many clinicians only know 5mg. The 1mg and 2mg of warfarin are newer, so when you stock them they will expire.

[Assistant] Okay. So have you witnessed any preventable deaths occurring in the hospital? Surely you look at this death and you say “no, no”


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] We move in the dark. We monitor it once a month when the patient comes back and you see there are some patients who don’t tolerate this simple 5mg of Warfarin and it’s the one available, the 1mgs, 2mg are in Kampala. So here we do 5mg, 10mg, 7mg and you are not going to see a patient next or another week; you will see a patient after one month or 2 months or wherever they come back. That puts them on at risk yet they need the warfarin.

[Assistant] Why is that here you have 5mg?

[User] It’s what is on the market. You see the market forces of pharmacies, you will not stock 1mg when many clinicians only know 5mg. The 1mg and 2mg of warfarin are newer, so when you stock them they will expire.

[Assistant] Okay. So have you witnessed any preventable deaths occurring in the hospital? Surely you look at this death and you say “no, no”

[User] Not really. The ones I could say were preventable are these patients who get lost to follow up and then they come back when the heart failure is advanced, they have arrhythmias, they are so dilated, they have clots and you have nothing to do about it. So those are the preventable deaths but not those that have not been diagnosed because of the availability of the machine, it has done magic, tests you know what you are doing. It is very straight forward.

[Assistant] Okay. So do you think there are patients dying in the community without ever presenting to the hospital?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Not really. The ones I could say were preventable are these patients who get lost to follow up and then they come back when the heart failure is advanced, they have arrhythmias, they are so dilated, they have clots and you have nothing to do about it. So those are the preventable deaths but not those that have not been diagnosed because of the availability of the machine, it has done magic, tests you know what you are doing. It is very straight forward.

[Assistant] Okay. So do you think there are patients dying in the community without ever presenting to the hospital?

[User] Very many. I told you the problem is herbal medicine.

[Assistant] Herbal!

[User] Yes. It is very terrible; it keeps a lot of people at home drinking and drinking, and then they even reach a point of dying there. Then others get lost in lower health units, health center IV may not have much knowledge about it so they could diagnose these people even with TB, can you imagine! Because they have cough that doesn’t go away or because they have other issues, they may not diagnose RHD.

[Assistant] So the last question, in your opinion, what are the two most important things Ministry Of Health should do to improve the outcome of our patients?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Very many. I told you the problem is herbal medicine.

[Assistant] Herbal!

[User] Yes. It is very terrible; it keeps a lot of people at home drinking and drinking, and then they even reach a point of dying there. Then others get lost in lower health units, health center IV may not have much knowledge about it so they could diagnose these people even with TB, can you imagine! Because they have cough that doesn’t go away or because they have other issues, they may not diagnose RHD.

[Assistant] So the last question, in your opinion, what are the two most important things Ministry Of Health should do to improve the outcome of our patients?

[User] Increase awareness through many programs, either radio or community visits or health education to know that RHD is real and at least we know we can prevent it by ABC. So let them increase the health education. It’s in many ways; it is in the communities among health workers, and even in schools. Can you imagine 100 pupils in primary residing in one dormitory or even 200, because the school has 300 students? So something has to be done by the Ministry of Health and Education jointly because people get exposure from that. Then after that, we shall also need to make available the services because when you already got the disease, you need to be treated early to slow its progression. Then to cure it, it is with surgery but then let the valves be made available because valves are the ones that make heart surgery expensive. Those are the two things.

[Assistant] Okay. Thank you so much. Anything else before we finish?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes. It is very terrible; it keeps a lot of people at home drinking and drinking, and then they even reach a point of dying there. Then others get lost in lower health units, health center IV may not have much knowledge about it so they could diagnose these people even with TB, can you imagine! Because they have cough that doesn’t go away or because they have other issues, they may not diagnose RHD.

[Assistant] So the last question, in your opinion, what are the two most important things Ministry Of Health should do to improve the outcome of our patients?

[User] Increase awareness through many programs, either radio or community visits or health education to know that RHD is real and at least we know we can prevent it by ABC. So let them increase the health education. It’s in many ways; it is in the communities among health workers, and even in schools. Can you imagine 100 pupils in primary residing in one dormitory or even 200, because the school has 300 students? So something has to be done by the Ministry of Health and Education jointly because people get exposure from that. Then after that, we shall also need to make available the services because when you already got the disease, you need to be treated early to slow its progression. Then to cure it, it is with surgery but then let the valves be made available because valves are the ones that make heart surgery expensive. Those are the two things.

[Assistant] Okay. Thank you so much. Anything else before we finish?

[User] Well, I just want to thank you for this opportunity and to tell you that RHD can be eradicated too.

[Assistant] Wow. Okay, good to hear that. Thank you so much for your wonderful views. We are going to use them with a couple others to see how best we can come up with a strategy of improving the outcomes of RHD.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Get the management to see the value of the project and act as ambassadors of change

[Assistant] And if your organizational change project could be perceived as a story… Who was the protagonist?

[User] HR manager (me)

[Assistant] Who was the antagonist?

[User] Few senior employees accustomed to the old HR-less way of working

[Assistant] What inciting moment motivated the protagonist to start the journey (the what if…)?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] HR manager (me)

[Assistant] Who was the antagonist?

[User] Few senior employees accustomed to the old HR-less way of working

[Assistant] What inciting moment motivated the protagonist to start the journey (the what if…)?

[User] The biggest motivation was actually internal - it was the belief that the entire company could benefit from decent HR department

[Assistant] What was the biggest conflict?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Few senior employees accustomed to the old HR-less way of working

[Assistant] What inciting moment motivated the protagonist to start the journey (the what if…)?

[User] The biggest motivation was actually internal - it was the belief that the entire company could benefit from decent HR department

[Assistant] What was the biggest conflict?

[User] Fighting against the negative image created by a couple of senior managers

[Assistant] What would be the genre of this story?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The biggest motivation was actually internal - it was the belief that the entire company could benefit from decent HR department

[Assistant] What was the biggest conflict?

[User] Fighting against the negative image created by a couple of senior managers

[Assistant] What would be the genre of this story?

[User] From my perspective, it was an adventure with a dash of comedy and pinch of drama

[Assistant] What would be the moral of this story?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Fighting against the negative image created by a couple of senior managers

[Assistant] What would be the genre of this story?

[User] From my perspective, it was an adventure with a dash of comedy and pinch of drama

[Assistant] What would be the moral of this story?

[User] Stay true to yourself and the rest will sort itself out

[Assistant] What was the dark inversion of this story (good gone bad, or bad gone good)?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] From my perspective, it was an adventure with a dash of comedy and pinch of drama

[Assistant] What would be the moral of this story?

[User] Stay true to yourself and the rest will sort itself out

[Assistant] What was the dark inversion of this story (good gone bad, or bad gone good)?

[User] The person who I saw as my biggest ally, turned out to be the heaviest burden on my journey.

[Assistant] What is your most frequently used metaphor?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Stay true to yourself and the rest will sort itself out

[Assistant] What was the dark inversion of this story (good gone bad, or bad gone good)?

[User] The person who I saw as my biggest ally, turned out to be the heaviest burden on my journey.

[Assistant] What is your most frequently used metaphor?

[User] If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.

[Assistant] What is your biggest revelation?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The person who I saw as my biggest ally, turned out to be the heaviest burden on my journey.

[Assistant] What is your most frequently used metaphor?

[User] If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.

[Assistant] What is your biggest revelation?

[User] I didn’t use all the resources that were at my disposal

[Assistant] Talk me through an anecdote which demonstrates how change recipients were behaving when they had no knowledge of the upcoming organizational change.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.

[Assistant] What is your biggest revelation?

[User] I didn’t use all the resources that were at my disposal

[Assistant] Talk me through an anecdote which demonstrates how change recipients were behaving when they had no knowledge of the upcoming organizational change.

[User] The company I worked for existed for 27 years without an HR department. Everything people related was handled with a laissez-faire attitude and with none or little consistency. They liked it that way because it didn’t feel stiff and corporate.

[Assistant] Could you recall how the knowledge of organizational change was initially started?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I didn’t use all the resources that were at my disposal

[Assistant] Talk me through an anecdote which demonstrates how change recipients were behaving when they had no knowledge of the upcoming organizational change.

[User] The company I worked for existed for 27 years without an HR department. Everything people related was handled with a laissez-faire attitude and with none or little consistency. They liked it that way because it didn’t feel stiff and corporate.

[Assistant] Could you recall how the knowledge of organizational change was initially started?

[User] Upon my arrival, I quickly became aware that I was basically on my own. Management was showing no interest and my job was to sparkle some in them.

[Assistant] How did you articulate the “awakening” moment where the organizational change was formally initiated?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The company I worked for existed for 27 years without an HR department. Everything people related was handled with a laissez-faire attitude and with none or little consistency. They liked it that way because it didn’t feel stiff and corporate.

[Assistant] Could you recall how the knowledge of organizational change was initially started?

[User] Upon my arrival, I quickly became aware that I was basically on my own. Management was showing no interest and my job was to sparkle some in them.

[Assistant] How did you articulate the “awakening” moment where the organizational change was formally initiated?

[User] I decided to use my first weeks to introduce myself and the HR function to everyone in the company. I wanted them to get a glimpse of me as a person, but at the same I wanted them to see what benefits they could get from having a dedicated HR person in their working environment. The “tool” I chose on that quest was one funny (at least I thought it was funny) and informative PowerPoint presentation.

[Assistant] How did change recipients express doubt towards the change project?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Upon my arrival, I quickly became aware that I was basically on my own. Management was showing no interest and my job was to sparkle some in them.

[Assistant] How did you articulate the “awakening” moment where the organizational change was formally initiated?

[User] I decided to use my first weeks to introduce myself and the HR function to everyone in the company. I wanted them to get a glimpse of me as a person, but at the same I wanted them to see what benefits they could get from having a dedicated HR person in their working environment. The “tool” I chose on that quest was one funny (at least I thought it was funny) and informative PowerPoint presentation.

[Assistant] How did change recipients express doubt towards the change project?

[User] One of the biggest doubts people had was that my arrival meant that everything will become more strict, rigid and corporate. Everyone was pretty vocal about that, and didn’t regard my feelings particularly. They spoke about me as if I wasn’t present in the room and complained about what could be one of the outcomes. Open communication is something that is really (in theory) valued in the agency environment.

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote of how you addressed this challenge?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I decided to use my first weeks to introduce myself and the HR function to everyone in the company. I wanted them to get a glimpse of me as a person, but at the same I wanted them to see what benefits they could get from having a dedicated HR person in their working environment. The “tool” I chose on that quest was one funny (at least I thought it was funny) and informative PowerPoint presentation.

[Assistant] How did change recipients express doubt towards the change project?

[User] One of the biggest doubts people had was that my arrival meant that everything will become more strict, rigid and corporate. Everyone was pretty vocal about that, and didn’t regard my feelings particularly. They spoke about me as if I wasn’t present in the room and complained about what could be one of the outcomes. Open communication is something that is really (in theory) valued in the agency environment.

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote of how you addressed this challenge?

[User] I tried to make it all seem fun and “light”. I remember attaching a Toby Flenderson (not so popular HR character from The Office) meme on one of my PowerPoint slides. Also I always emphasized that I also hate corporate environments and that I will never make a big change in the company without consulting its employees first.

[Assistant] Talk me through an example of growing reluctance to accept the change and who was challenging you the most?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] One of the biggest doubts people had was that my arrival meant that everything will become more strict, rigid and corporate. Everyone was pretty vocal about that, and didn’t regard my feelings particularly. They spoke about me as if I wasn’t present in the room and complained about what could be one of the outcomes. Open communication is something that is really (in theory) valued in the agency environment.

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote of how you addressed this challenge?

[User] I tried to make it all seem fun and “light”. I remember attaching a Toby Flenderson (not so popular HR character from The Office) meme on one of my PowerPoint slides. Also I always emphasized that I also hate corporate environments and that I will never make a big change in the company without consulting its employees first.

[Assistant] Talk me through an example of growing reluctance to accept the change and who was challenging you the most?

[User] Unfortunately, I can’t single out just one person… Creative department was most reluctant to accept the change. I’m still not sure was it just because of the personalities of Creative directors (people who are department heads/team leads to all creatives at the company) or was it because of the nature of their job (not so structured or easily definable). As everything in life, truth is probably somewhere in between.

[Assistant] How did you manage to achieve “acceptance”?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I tried to make it all seem fun and “light”. I remember attaching a Toby Flenderson (not so popular HR character from The Office) meme on one of my PowerPoint slides. Also I always emphasized that I also hate corporate environments and that I will never make a big change in the company without consulting its employees first.

[Assistant] Talk me through an example of growing reluctance to accept the change and who was challenging you the most?

[User] Unfortunately, I can’t single out just one person… Creative department was most reluctant to accept the change. I’m still not sure was it just because of the personalities of Creative directors (people who are department heads/team leads to all creatives at the company) or was it because of the nature of their job (not so structured or easily definable). As everything in life, truth is probably somewhere in between.

[Assistant] How did you manage to achieve “acceptance”?

[User] I didn’t achieve universal acceptance. Some of the team leaders accepted my endeavors and for that reason their team members were mostly receptive as well. How did I manage their acceptance? By showing up when they needed me, demonstrating how their job can be easier because the HR department but also by showing them my personality and “human” side. Some of the team leaders stayed reluctant and did the bare minimum just so no one would call them out for being a bad team player.

[Assistant] What exactly did you communicate to change recipients?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Unfortunately, I can’t single out just one person… Creative department was most reluctant to accept the change. I’m still not sure was it just because of the personalities of Creative directors (people who are department heads/team leads to all creatives at the company) or was it because of the nature of their job (not so structured or easily definable). As everything in life, truth is probably somewhere in between.

[Assistant] How did you manage to achieve “acceptance”?

[User] I didn’t achieve universal acceptance. Some of the team leaders accepted my endeavors and for that reason their team members were mostly receptive as well. How did I manage their acceptance? By showing up when they needed me, demonstrating how their job can be easier because the HR department but also by showing them my personality and “human” side. Some of the team leaders stayed reluctant and did the bare minimum just so no one would call them out for being a bad team player.

[Assistant] What exactly did you communicate to change recipients?

[User] I always asked for feedback. Knowing what made sense to them and what they saw as irrelevant was a really important part in entire change implementation journey of mine.

[Assistant] Could you recall how change recipients experimented with available knowledge after accepting change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I didn’t achieve universal acceptance. Some of the team leaders accepted my endeavors and for that reason their team members were mostly receptive as well. How did I manage their acceptance? By showing up when they needed me, demonstrating how their job can be easier because the HR department but also by showing them my personality and “human” side. Some of the team leaders stayed reluctant and did the bare minimum just so no one would call them out for being a bad team player.

[Assistant] What exactly did you communicate to change recipients?

[User] I always asked for feedback. Knowing what made sense to them and what they saw as irrelevant was a really important part in entire change implementation journey of mine.

[Assistant] Could you recall how change recipients experimented with available knowledge after accepting change?

[User] I can’t recall one specific event. All Change recipients started to include me in people related questions and ask for my advice where they thought it would come in handy. At first it was hard for them to distinguish what is and what isn’t my area of responsibility. It was my duty to guide them through that process. For example, it is not HRs responsibility to provide feedback to people, but HR can and should help team leaders when they need to give feedback.

[Assistant] What would you say was the moment of “big change” that initiated this positive change in attitudes of change recipients?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I always asked for feedback. Knowing what made sense to them and what they saw as irrelevant was a really important part in entire change implementation journey of mine.

[Assistant] Could you recall how change recipients experimented with available knowledge after accepting change?

[User] I can’t recall one specific event. All Change recipients started to include me in people related questions and ask for my advice where they thought it would come in handy. At first it was hard for them to distinguish what is and what isn’t my area of responsibility. It was my duty to guide them through that process. For example, it is not HRs responsibility to provide feedback to people, but HR can and should help team leaders when they need to give feedback.

[Assistant] What would you say was the moment of “big change” that initiated this positive change in attitudes of change recipients?

[User] I wouldn't say there was one moment of “big change”. As I said in one of the previous questions the positive change was visible in some of the change recipients while others stayed reluctant through the entire process. Those who accepted the change needed some time to start trusting me so it was more of a process and less of a “aha moment” thing.

[Assistant] Who did you reach out to first when experimenting after this “big change”?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I can’t recall one specific event. All Change recipients started to include me in people related questions and ask for my advice where they thought it would come in handy. At first it was hard for them to distinguish what is and what isn’t my area of responsibility. It was my duty to guide them through that process. For example, it is not HRs responsibility to provide feedback to people, but HR can and should help team leaders when they need to give feedback.

[Assistant] What would you say was the moment of “big change” that initiated this positive change in attitudes of change recipients?

[User] I wouldn't say there was one moment of “big change”. As I said in one of the previous questions the positive change was visible in some of the change recipients while others stayed reluctant through the entire process. Those who accepted the change needed some time to start trusting me so it was more of a process and less of a “aha moment” thing.

[Assistant] Who did you reach out to first when experimenting after this “big change”?

[User] My biggest supporters were definitely the company's CFO, Head of Digital and one Account Director.

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote of how these events went?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I wouldn't say there was one moment of “big change”. As I said in one of the previous questions the positive change was visible in some of the change recipients while others stayed reluctant through the entire process. Those who accepted the change needed some time to start trusting me so it was more of a process and less of a “aha moment” thing.

[Assistant] Who did you reach out to first when experimenting after this “big change”?

[User] My biggest supporters were definitely the company's CFO, Head of Digital and one Account Director.

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote of how these events went?

[User] There were some issues at this stage as well… Even though my supporters were highly ranked people in the company, the problem was that some of them weren’t really popular with other colleagues. With this knowledge I have after everything is behind me, I would choose my allies more carefully.

[Assistant] What exactly did you communicate to your change recipients after they expressed doubt for the second time?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] My biggest supporters were definitely the company's CFO, Head of Digital and one Account Director.

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote of how these events went?

[User] There were some issues at this stage as well… Even though my supporters were highly ranked people in the company, the problem was that some of them weren’t really popular with other colleagues. With this knowledge I have after everything is behind me, I would choose my allies more carefully.

[Assistant] What exactly did you communicate to your change recipients after they expressed doubt for the second time?

[User] I always tried to cope with every doubt they had individually. It was my opinion that my change leaders would be more open while talking with me privately. So to answer this question more precisely, I told everyone I was open for criticism but I asked them to be as precise as they can and give me real examples of situations that made them question the change I was trying to make.

[Assistant] Could you recall who was the loudest and how you addressed these comments?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] There were some issues at this stage as well… Even though my supporters were highly ranked people in the company, the problem was that some of them weren’t really popular with other colleagues. With this knowledge I have after everything is behind me, I would choose my allies more carefully.

[Assistant] What exactly did you communicate to your change recipients after they expressed doubt for the second time?

[User] I always tried to cope with every doubt they had individually. It was my opinion that my change leaders would be more open while talking with me privately. So to answer this question more precisely, I told everyone I was open for criticism but I asked them to be as precise as they can and give me real examples of situations that made them question the change I was trying to make.

[Assistant] Could you recall who was the loudest and how you addressed these comments?

[User] The loudest was one of the Account Directors who joined the company almost one year after my arrival. In her opinion, I was very biased and didn’t treat everyone equally. She was convinced that I held back some information from her. After I became aware she felt that way, I introduced a 1-on-1 bi-monthly meeting to our schedules to regularly address every relevant topic.

[Assistant] Talk me through how you handled this second round of growing reluctance among change recipients.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I always tried to cope with every doubt they had individually. It was my opinion that my change leaders would be more open while talking with me privately. So to answer this question more precisely, I told everyone I was open for criticism but I asked them to be as precise as they can and give me real examples of situations that made them question the change I was trying to make.

[Assistant] Could you recall who was the loudest and how you addressed these comments?

[User] The loudest was one of the Account Directors who joined the company almost one year after my arrival. In her opinion, I was very biased and didn’t treat everyone equally. She was convinced that I held back some information from her. After I became aware she felt that way, I introduced a 1-on-1 bi-monthly meeting to our schedules to regularly address every relevant topic.

[Assistant] Talk me through how you handled this second round of growing reluctance among change recipients.

[User] My goal was to gain (and in some cases regain) trust among change recipients. My new “modus operandi” was to carefully plan the speed of implementing new processes. Slow and steady wins the race. Everyone remembers the tale of turtle and rabbit, right?

[Assistant] What were the biggest obstacles during this stage?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The loudest was one of the Account Directors who joined the company almost one year after my arrival. In her opinion, I was very biased and didn’t treat everyone equally. She was convinced that I held back some information from her. After I became aware she felt that way, I introduced a 1-on-1 bi-monthly meeting to our schedules to regularly address every relevant topic.

[Assistant] Talk me through how you handled this second round of growing reluctance among change recipients.

[User] My goal was to gain (and in some cases regain) trust among change recipients. My new “modus operandi” was to carefully plan the speed of implementing new processes. Slow and steady wins the race. Everyone remembers the tale of turtle and rabbit, right?

[Assistant] What were the biggest obstacles during this stage?

[User] Frankly, the biggest obstacle during this stage was the occurrence of the Covid19 situation that opened up a whole new set of challenges. The entire agency switched from “growth mode” to “survival mode” and it was really difficult for me to pursue my initial agenda.

[Assistant] Could you recall the most difficult conversation you’ve had to manage during this phase?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] My goal was to gain (and in some cases regain) trust among change recipients. My new “modus operandi” was to carefully plan the speed of implementing new processes. Slow and steady wins the race. Everyone remembers the tale of turtle and rabbit, right?

[Assistant] What were the biggest obstacles during this stage?

[User] Frankly, the biggest obstacle during this stage was the occurrence of the Covid19 situation that opened up a whole new set of challenges. The entire agency switched from “growth mode” to “survival mode” and it was really difficult for me to pursue my initial agenda.

[Assistant] Could you recall the most difficult conversation you’ve had to manage during this phase?

[User] Instead of going forward, this stage sent me a few steps backwards. One of my main tasks was to determine criteria for lowering wages and letting people go. The most difficult conversations in that period were communicating those changes and later on explaining them to people who weren’t directly affected by them (but they had a lot of empathy for their colleagues).

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote covering the regression of change recipients from the stage of accepting change towards resisting change again.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Frankly, the biggest obstacle during this stage was the occurrence of the Covid19 situation that opened up a whole new set of challenges. The entire agency switched from “growth mode” to “survival mode” and it was really difficult for me to pursue my initial agenda.

[Assistant] Could you recall the most difficult conversation you’ve had to manage during this phase?

[User] Instead of going forward, this stage sent me a few steps backwards. One of my main tasks was to determine criteria for lowering wages and letting people go. The most difficult conversations in that period were communicating those changes and later on explaining them to people who weren’t directly affected by them (but they had a lot of empathy for their colleagues).

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote covering the regression of change recipients from the stage of accepting change towards resisting change again.

[User] The episodes that really stuck with me were when people didn’t believe in the structured process of introducing COVID measures. This was a huge setback in implementing every HR process in general because people felt like HR was working against them. Great example of how people wanted to “rebel” against said measures was the episode when they wanted to start a petition to rehire a colleague who got fired.

[Assistant] What were the most important insights from this stage in your opinion?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Instead of going forward, this stage sent me a few steps backwards. One of my main tasks was to determine criteria for lowering wages and letting people go. The most difficult conversations in that period were communicating those changes and later on explaining them to people who weren’t directly affected by them (but they had a lot of empathy for their colleagues).

[Assistant] Could you recall an anecdote covering the regression of change recipients from the stage of accepting change towards resisting change again.

[User] The episodes that really stuck with me were when people didn’t believe in the structured process of introducing COVID measures. This was a huge setback in implementing every HR process in general because people felt like HR was working against them. Great example of how people wanted to “rebel” against said measures was the episode when they wanted to start a petition to rehire a colleague who got fired.

[Assistant] What were the most important insights from this stage in your opinion?

[User] The most important insight I gained during this period is that I underestimated the power of emotions at the workplace. I always thought that ratio is stronger in a business environment, but after this experience I will always keep in mind the strength emotions possess.

[Assistant] Who was the most resilient and how did you handle this challenge?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The episodes that really stuck with me were when people didn’t believe in the structured process of introducing COVID measures. This was a huge setback in implementing every HR process in general because people felt like HR was working against them. Great example of how people wanted to “rebel” against said measures was the episode when they wanted to start a petition to rehire a colleague who got fired.

[Assistant] What were the most important insights from this stage in your opinion?

[User] The most important insight I gained during this period is that I underestimated the power of emotions at the workplace. I always thought that ratio is stronger in a business environment, but after this experience I will always keep in mind the strength emotions possess.

[Assistant] Who was the most resilient and how did you handle this challenge?

[User] The most resilient change recipients were people who were resilient from the start. Eventually I accepted the fact that I can’t have everyone on board and eager to change as I would like them to be. Still, I tried to keep them engaged, informed and asked for feedback regularly.

[Assistant] Talk me through the process of reawakening change acceptance within change recipients.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The most important insight I gained during this period is that I underestimated the power of emotions at the workplace. I always thought that ratio is stronger in a business environment, but after this experience I will always keep in mind the strength emotions possess.

[Assistant] Who was the most resilient and how did you handle this challenge?

[User] The most resilient change recipients were people who were resilient from the start. Eventually I accepted the fact that I can’t have everyone on board and eager to change as I would like them to be. Still, I tried to keep them engaged, informed and asked for feedback regularly.

[Assistant] Talk me through the process of reawakening change acceptance within change recipients.

[User] Two months after infamous COVID measures, everything was (relatively) back to normal and I was (kinda) back on track. I had numerous meetings with my main stakeholders to prioritize our next moves. In my opinion, co-creation of a new plan was a crucial key for reigniting the fire of change acceptance.

[Assistant] How did you manage to achieve it and what were the early signs of them experiencing reawakening?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] The most resilient change recipients were people who were resilient from the start. Eventually I accepted the fact that I can’t have everyone on board and eager to change as I would like them to be. Still, I tried to keep them engaged, informed and asked for feedback regularly.

[Assistant] Talk me through the process of reawakening change acceptance within change recipients.

[User] Two months after infamous COVID measures, everything was (relatively) back to normal and I was (kinda) back on track. I had numerous meetings with my main stakeholders to prioritize our next moves. In my opinion, co-creation of a new plan was a crucial key for reigniting the fire of change acceptance.

[Assistant] How did you manage to achieve it and what were the early signs of them experiencing reawakening?

[User] I firmly believed that the change I was proposing would benefit everyone. I stayed consistent, open and I think a lot of people recognized and respected that.

[Assistant] Who was your strongest ally at this stage?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Two months after infamous COVID measures, everything was (relatively) back to normal and I was (kinda) back on track. I had numerous meetings with my main stakeholders to prioritize our next moves. In my opinion, co-creation of a new plan was a crucial key for reigniting the fire of change acceptance.

[Assistant] How did you manage to achieve it and what were the early signs of them experiencing reawakening?

[User] I firmly believed that the change I was proposing would benefit everyone. I stayed consistent, open and I think a lot of people recognized and respected that.

[Assistant] Who was your strongest ally at this stage?

[User] People who were by my side from the beginning of this journey. CFO, Head of Digital, one of the Account Directors. Interesting thing was that I gathered a significant number of supporters in the lower levels of hierarchy as well. That showed me I was on the right track.

[Assistant] What were the first signs of successful transformation with change recipients?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I firmly believed that the change I was proposing would benefit everyone. I stayed consistent, open and I think a lot of people recognized and respected that.

[Assistant] Who was your strongest ally at this stage?

[User] People who were by my side from the beginning of this journey. CFO, Head of Digital, one of the Account Directors. Interesting thing was that I gathered a significant number of supporters in the lower levels of hierarchy as well. That showed me I was on the right track.

[Assistant] What were the first signs of successful transformation with change recipients?

[User] I asked every single employee to give their feedback on HR during the 360 evaluation process in the company. Results were much better than I expected. Some teams were still pretty resilient, but the situation wasn’t critical. Everyone (event the critics) saw something positive in this org change.

[Assistant] How did you recognize the occurrence of true mastery in accepting change?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] People who were by my side from the beginning of this journey. CFO, Head of Digital, one of the Account Directors. Interesting thing was that I gathered a significant number of supporters in the lower levels of hierarchy as well. That showed me I was on the right track.

[Assistant] What were the first signs of successful transformation with change recipients?

[User] I asked every single employee to give their feedback on HR during the 360 evaluation process in the company. Results were much better than I expected. Some teams were still pretty resilient, but the situation wasn’t critical. Everyone (event the critics) saw something positive in this org change.

[Assistant] How did you recognize the occurrence of true mastery in accepting change?

[User] I left the company before the change was fully accepted. But some of the strongest signs of change acceptance in my last few months was that my loudest “opponents” were slowly getting on board and were even providing me with constructive feedback.

[Assistant] What is the main point you managed to get across?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I asked every single employee to give their feedback on HR during the 360 evaluation process in the company. Results were much better than I expected. Some teams were still pretty resilient, but the situation wasn’t critical. Everyone (event the critics) saw something positive in this org change.

[Assistant] How did you recognize the occurrence of true mastery in accepting change?

[User] I left the company before the change was fully accepted. But some of the strongest signs of change acceptance in my last few months was that my loudest “opponents” were slowly getting on board and were even providing me with constructive feedback.

[Assistant] What is the main point you managed to get across?

[User] Organizational change is not a (sprint) race, it is a marathon. Good alliance planning and a lot of co- creation are must-haves when you’re trying to implement a huge organizational change.

[Assistant] What do you think is the most important thing to highlight here?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I left the company before the change was fully accepted. But some of the strongest signs of change acceptance in my last few months was that my loudest “opponents” were slowly getting on board and were even providing me with constructive feedback.

[Assistant] What is the main point you managed to get across?

[User] Organizational change is not a (sprint) race, it is a marathon. Good alliance planning and a lot of co- creation are must-haves when you’re trying to implement a huge organizational change.

[Assistant] What do you think is the most important thing to highlight here?

[User] You can plan all you want, but you must also expect the unexpected. For example, my plans were shaken to the core with COVID19 pandemic (external factor nobody could have predicted).

[Assistant] Great, with that being said, I think we’ve got enough material to analyze. Thank you very much for taking the time to go through these details.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Okay,

[Assistant] so it does get a little bit repetitive towards the end. But, you know, here we are. All right, so the first one I confirm that I have read the information sheet for this study. I've had the opportunity to consider the information to ask questions and I've had these questions answered satisfactorily.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I understand that my participation is voluntary, and then I am free to withdraw it anytime without giving any reason. I also understand that I can decline to answer any questions during the interview.

[User] Yes,

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study and give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I understand that my participation is voluntary, and then I am free to withdraw it anytime without giving any reason. I also understand that I can decline to answer any questions during the interview.

[User] Yes,

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study and give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for use in future research or teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymized first.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes,

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study and give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for use in future research or teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymized first.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] I understand that the interview will be audio video recorded according to my preference typed out and that all identifying personal details will be removed.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes.

[Assistant] I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for use in future research or teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymized first.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] I understand that the interview will be audio video recorded according to my preference typed out and that all identifying personal details will be removed.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] I understand that direct quotations may be taken from what I say and used in research or publications, but that I will not be identifiable from these quotations.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah.

[Assistant] I understand that the interview will be audio video recorded according to my preference typed out and that all identifying personal details will be removed.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] I understand that direct quotations may be taken from what I say and used in research or publications, but that I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] I agree to take part in this study.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah

[Assistant] I understand that direct quotations may be taken from what I say and used in research or publications, but that I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] I agree to take part in this study.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] Excellent. And then there's just two other things here. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. You can either tell me that. Now, or you can email me after our interview if you'd like to get a summary at the end of the study.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] I agree to take part in this study.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] Excellent. And then there's just two other things here. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. You can either tell me that. Now, or you can email me after our interview if you'd like to get a summary at the end of the study.

[User] That's great. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. So I can send those to your email address that we corresponded on once I finish my dissertation, so towards the end of August, you can expect to see that. Yeah, um, and if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents I can mail you those.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yes

[Assistant] Excellent. And then there's just two other things here. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. You can either tell me that. Now, or you can email me after our interview if you'd like to get a summary at the end of the study.

[User] That's great. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. So I can send those to your email address that we corresponded on once I finish my dissertation, so towards the end of August, you can expect to see that. Yeah, um, and if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents I can mail you those.

[User] No, don't worry. Soft copies of things is fine.

[Assistant]
Okay, perfect.

Um, so that's out of the way we can move on to some of the questions here. So can you tell me a little bit about your child. Like, how old are they? You said he, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] That's great. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. So I can send those to your email address that we corresponded on once I finish my dissertation, so towards the end of August, you can expect to see that. Yeah, um, and if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents I can mail you those.

[User] No, don't worry. Soft copies of things is fine.

[Assistant]
Okay, perfect.

Um, so that's out of the way we can move on to some of the questions here. So can you tell me a little bit about your child. Like, how old are they? You said he, right?

[User] Yeah, he’s [Child]. He's coming up to two and a half in two weeks. He was born in January 2018. He's obviously currently mainly at home, he's back at nursery two days a week now.

[Assistant] Yeah. How is he doing at home? or maybe the better question is, how are you doing with having him at home?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No, don't worry. Soft copies of things is fine.

[Assistant]
Okay, perfect.

Um, so that's out of the way we can move on to some of the questions here. So can you tell me a little bit about your child. Like, how old are they? You said he, right?

[User] Yeah, he’s [Child]. He's coming up to two and a half in two weeks. He was born in January 2018. He's obviously currently mainly at home, he's back at nursery two days a week now.

[Assistant] Yeah. How is he doing at home? or maybe the better question is, how are you doing with having him at home?

[User] Yeah, you know, it took a few weeks to, to shake down into a routine. I've been splitting childcare with my husband, he's also working from home. So it's taken a while to get used to. But we were all fine. And I think the university has been pretty good in terms accomodating.

[Assistant] Yeah, its nice to hear that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, he’s [Child]. He's coming up to two and a half in two weeks. He was born in January 2018. He's obviously currently mainly at home, he's back at nursery two days a week now.

[Assistant] Yeah. How is he doing at home? or maybe the better question is, how are you doing with having him at home?

[User] Yeah, you know, it took a few weeks to, to shake down into a routine. I've been splitting childcare with my husband, he's also working from home. So it's taken a while to get used to. But we were all fine. And I think the university has been pretty good in terms accomodating.

[Assistant] Yeah, its nice to hear that.

[User] And then obviously He's back in nursery two days, which he's loving. But coming back very tired. So that's changed the dynamic a bit again. But no, it's been okay.

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm sure it's nice to have him back at nursery, just so that he can see some other faces and interact with some other people.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, you know, it took a few weeks to, to shake down into a routine. I've been splitting childcare with my husband, he's also working from home. So it's taken a while to get used to. But we were all fine. And I think the university has been pretty good in terms accomodating.

[Assistant] Yeah, its nice to hear that.

[User] And then obviously He's back in nursery two days, which he's loving. But coming back very tired. So that's changed the dynamic a bit again. But no, it's been okay.

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm sure it's nice to have him back at nursery, just so that he can see some other faces and interact with some other people.

[User] Yeah, he loves other children.

[Assistant] Yeah. Um, so he's your only child. Is that right? yeah.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] And then obviously He's back in nursery two days, which he's loving. But coming back very tired. So that's changed the dynamic a bit again. But no, it's been okay.

[Assistant] Yeah, I'm sure it's nice to have him back at nursery, just so that he can see some other faces and interact with some other people.

[User] Yeah, he loves other children.

[Assistant] Yeah. Um, so he's your only child. Is that right? yeah.

[User] Yeah, that's right.

[Assistant] Okay. Um, so, and what's his name again?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, he loves other children.

[Assistant] Yeah. Um, so he's your only child. Is that right? yeah.

[User] Yeah, that's right.

[Assistant] Okay. Um, so, and what's his name again?

[User] [Child].

[Assistant] [Child], right sorry I know you said that.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, that's right.

[Assistant] Okay. Um, so, and what's his name again?

[User] [Child].

[Assistant] [Child], right sorry I know you said that.

[User] Thats okay, don't worry.

[Assistant] So can you tell me a little bit about what you know about the flu? Just sort of your first impressions when you hear the word flu?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] [Child].

[Assistant] [Child], right sorry I know you said that.

[User] Thats okay, don't worry.

[Assistant] So can you tell me a little bit about what you know about the flu? Just sort of your first impressions when you hear the word flu?

[User] Hmm. Um, I guess. I mean, I've had the flu, maybe twice in my life as a teenager and as a fresher. Both times were horrendous not, not something I would ever wish on anyone and I know that it can be more dangerous that folder people pregnant women, children. I used to get given a flu vaccine when I worked for a private company. They used to pay for staff to have them. And I've always thought that was a really good idea because it's just an unpleasant illness. It's preventable obviously. I guess the vaccine depends on whether they've identified the most virulent strain that year. And there are other strains and things going around. So it's not foolproof. But yeah, just what I know about it is that flu is pretty contagious, pretty unpleasant illness I guess that affects people globally.

[Assistant] Yeah. Can you tell me what sort of like, if [Child] was coming down with the flu, what symptoms would you expect to see him developing? What things would tip you off that he was coming down with flu?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Thats okay, don't worry.

[Assistant] So can you tell me a little bit about what you know about the flu? Just sort of your first impressions when you hear the word flu?

[User] Hmm. Um, I guess. I mean, I've had the flu, maybe twice in my life as a teenager and as a fresher. Both times were horrendous not, not something I would ever wish on anyone and I know that it can be more dangerous that folder people pregnant women, children. I used to get given a flu vaccine when I worked for a private company. They used to pay for staff to have them. And I've always thought that was a really good idea because it's just an unpleasant illness. It's preventable obviously. I guess the vaccine depends on whether they've identified the most virulent strain that year. And there are other strains and things going around. So it's not foolproof. But yeah, just what I know about it is that flu is pretty contagious, pretty unpleasant illness I guess that affects people globally.

[Assistant] Yeah. Can you tell me what sort of like, if [Child] was coming down with the flu, what symptoms would you expect to see him developing? What things would tip you off that he was coming down with flu?

[User] A high temperature. Obviously he's, if he's quite young child so crying, very sort of flushed... what else would I expect? Maybe, maybe sort of clammy, sweaty, not sleeping, very clingy, off his food. I mean, so many childhood diseases start with those symptoms but those, those are the, what I would expect to see.

[Assistant] Yeah. Is it something you think, like does it come on really fast, or is it something that is, you know, kind of a slower, like most childhood illnesses like you sort of see it over a few days?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] A high temperature. Obviously he's, if he's quite young child so crying, very sort of flushed... what else would I expect? Maybe, maybe sort of clammy, sweaty, not sleeping, very clingy, off his food. I mean, so many childhood diseases start with those symptoms but those, those are the, what I would expect to see.

[Assistant] Yeah. Is it something you think, like does it come on really fast, or is it something that is, you know, kind of a slower, like most childhood illnesses like you sort of see it over a few days?

[User] Yeah, I'm not. I hadn't thought about that. I guess I would consider it something that came on over, say, one to two days. I wouldn't think of it as being a really slow burner. I wouldn't think of something appearing overnight.But I might be wrong about that. I think you'd get that sense of them starting to be a bit on well a bit wingey and then get that temperature. Maybe going floppy if it got really bad.

[Assistant] Sure, yeah. With with children, his age, I think so much of it is about you know, kind of reading what you can see, because of course you know that they cant tell you. You know, I've got a headache. I've got this. I've got that. So it's a lot of it. I think comes down to just what you see happening.

[User] Right, yeah.

[Assistant] So do you worry about [Child] getting the flu? Is that something you know if you heard, kind of, if you knew that [Child] was going to get the flu. Is that something that worry you, or is it something you know, of course you don't want it to happen. But would it be concerning or something that you wouldn't be too worried about?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, he turned two in January. So I don't know. He just missed the cutoff.

[Assistant] Yeah. So can you explain to me what you think, you sort of already did, but can you explain what you think getting sick with the flu is like for kids in terms of, I guess, would you think that the symptoms are any different between adults and children, how long would you expect them to be ill for, you know, that kind of thing?

[User] Yeah, I guess I don't, I guess, I don't know, I guess when I had flu. I was sick for about... It was quicker than a cold, so five days? For five days. I guess with children. I guess it would be quick. I guess it would be sort of two, three days, really. I imagine it would peak quickly. But again, that is complete speculation and having not seen a child with the flu and not actually looked into it as much as I possibly could. You're making me think I need to research this a bit more. You know, and I imagine it would be very confusing for them. And I imagine it would progress quickly in children.

[Assistant] Yeah, no., don't worry about it. Part of what I'm doing is just trying to learn, you know, kind of, how much parents know about the flu. And if you don't, you know, if you're not confident in what you know that's that's interesting as well. So, you know, no worries about that at all. Okay. Um, so I think you actually just said. So you don't know anyone whose child has gotten sick with the flu. Is that right?

[User] Yeah, no, I don't.

[Assistant] So if you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu, you know, anything from symptoms to who is at risk, just kind of anything about the flu, where would you go to get that information?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, no, I don't.

[Assistant] So if you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu, you know, anything from symptoms to who is at risk, just kind of anything about the flu, where would you go to get that information?

[User] I generally just go to the Internet and the NHS website. I find really, it's really helpful. It's quite a balanced View. I mean, if I guess if I put something into Google NHS comes up quite high and then people like the Mayo Clinic come up as well. And I always think it's interesting to see a different point of view, from different countries because you get, you know, a slightly different take on it and different um... I think, take that I take into account that the NHS is sometimes very... um, I'm not sure what the word is. Not modest but quite... is very kind of Restrained sometimes in some of its advice. So I find it interesting to kind of get get other advice from, from what I see as reputable sources, but it will be medical websites.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you said Mayo Clinic. Are there any others that come to mind or is it just sort of, you know, you kind of make a decision as your going?

[User] It's not and sometimes they're sort of, maybe not for the flu, but for other things I've looked at before kind of specialist charities websites, I think, a really useful source of information.

[Assistant] Yeah, sure. Um, have you ever talked to your child's GP or another medical professional about the flu.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I generally just go to the Internet and the NHS website. I find really, it's really helpful. It's quite a balanced View. I mean, if I guess if I put something into Google NHS comes up quite high and then people like the Mayo Clinic come up as well. And I always think it's interesting to see a different point of view, from different countries because you get, you know, a slightly different take on it and different um... I think, take that I take into account that the NHS is sometimes very... um, I'm not sure what the word is. Not modest but quite... is very kind of Restrained sometimes in some of its advice. So I find it interesting to kind of get get other advice from, from what I see as reputable sources, but it will be medical websites.

[Assistant] Yeah. So you said Mayo Clinic. Are there any others that come to mind or is it just sort of, you know, you kind of make a decision as your going?

[User] It's not and sometimes they're sort of, maybe not for the flu, but for other things I've looked at before kind of specialist charities websites, I think, a really useful source of information.

[Assistant] Yeah, sure. Um, have you ever talked to your child's GP or another medical professional about the flu.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Is that because you haven't had any reason to or you know--


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] It's not and sometimes they're sort of, maybe not for the flu, but for other things I've looked at before kind of specialist charities websites, I think, a really useful source of information.

[Assistant] Yeah, sure. Um, have you ever talked to your child's GP or another medical professional about the flu.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Is that because you haven't had any reason to or you know--

[User] I've never suspected of them have enough having the flu. It's not something that either my partner or I've had since having him. And I just know that he was too young to receive the vaccine. I think had we gotten the vaccine and maybe looked into it a bit more Id've discussed it with the GP. But, you know, in general, I know we'll talk about vaccines, I'm sure, but that but that's sort of doesn't concern me, giving him a vaccine. So no, it's not something we've discussed

[Assistant] Sure, yeah, so you've sort of led me into my next my next questions here. What do you think the benefits are of having your child get the flu vaccine?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] No.

[Assistant] Is that because you haven't had any reason to or you know--

[User] I've never suspected of them have enough having the flu. It's not something that either my partner or I've had since having him. And I just know that he was too young to receive the vaccine. I think had we gotten the vaccine and maybe looked into it a bit more Id've discussed it with the GP. But, you know, in general, I know we'll talk about vaccines, I'm sure, but that but that's sort of doesn't concern me, giving him a vaccine. So no, it's not something we've discussed

[Assistant] Sure, yeah, so you've sort of led me into my next my next questions here. What do you think the benefits are of having your child get the flu vaccine?

[User] I'd say that in my mind that they are much less likely to get flu is major benefits. And, and also much less likely to spread Flu within the community and it's sort of protective against, you know, for other people in the community as well.

[Assistant] Yeah. So do you think that, I'm curious about that sort of protective benefit, you know, protecting the community as well as your child. Do you think that's something that you would have thought about before, sort of the coronavirus started going around? Because there's been so much emphasis put on, you know, everybody having an obligation to protect the community. Is that something you had thought about before this or is it something that's come to your attention after the fact?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I've never suspected of them have enough having the flu. It's not something that either my partner or I've had since having him. And I just know that he was too young to receive the vaccine. I think had we gotten the vaccine and maybe looked into it a bit more Id've discussed it with the GP. But, you know, in general, I know we'll talk about vaccines, I'm sure, but that but that's sort of doesn't concern me, giving him a vaccine. So no, it's not something we've discussed

[Assistant] Sure, yeah, so you've sort of led me into my next my next questions here. What do you think the benefits are of having your child get the flu vaccine?

[User] I'd say that in my mind that they are much less likely to get flu is major benefits. And, and also much less likely to spread Flu within the community and it's sort of protective against, you know, for other people in the community as well.

[Assistant] Yeah. So do you think that, I'm curious about that sort of protective benefit, you know, protecting the community as well as your child. Do you think that's something that you would have thought about before, sort of the coronavirus started going around? Because there's been so much emphasis put on, you know, everybody having an obligation to protect the community. Is that something you had thought about before this or is it something that's come to your attention after the fact?

[User] Yeah, its an interesting question really. I think it would be something I thought about before mainly related to measles outbreaks. I know that there were, there are certain parts of the country where the vaccine uptake is very low, certain parts of the you know, the world where vaccine uptake is is low. And in those places they've had quite big outbreaks of measles and so I guess it would be related to them. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's interesting. So it's it's seeing that vaccinating for measles has an important community protecting effect that has sort of transfered to you feeling that the flu vaccine also has that same effect.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] I'd say that in my mind that they are much less likely to get flu is major benefits. And, and also much less likely to spread Flu within the community and it's sort of protective against, you know, for other people in the community as well.

[Assistant] Yeah. So do you think that, I'm curious about that sort of protective benefit, you know, protecting the community as well as your child. Do you think that's something that you would have thought about before, sort of the coronavirus started going around? Because there's been so much emphasis put on, you know, everybody having an obligation to protect the community. Is that something you had thought about before this or is it something that's come to your attention after the fact?

[User] Yeah, its an interesting question really. I think it would be something I thought about before mainly related to measles outbreaks. I know that there were, there are certain parts of the country where the vaccine uptake is very low, certain parts of the you know, the world where vaccine uptake is is low. And in those places they've had quite big outbreaks of measles and so I guess it would be related to them. Yeah.

[Assistant] Yeah, that's interesting. So it's it's seeing that vaccinating for measles has an important community protecting effect that has sort of transfered to you feeling that the flu vaccine also has that same effect.

[User] Yeah, I've got no scientific evidence for that, actually, but that's, that's how I feel about vaccines in general, I guess I feel like that's, that's it.

[Assistant] Yeah, absolutely. Um, so what do you think the downsides are of having your child get the flu vaccine and downsides can be? You know, not just side effects, but you know like inconvenience would be a downside, cost would be a downside. You know, kind of, kind of any any downsides that you can think of.


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Well, I guess I don't know what the policy is in the US. I don't know how it differs. I don't know. Or, you know, Australia, or whatever. I don't know whether the drug used is the same, I don't know whether they even vaccination. It's the same types of flu, whether any of that. So I just feel like it's a more specific solution in the, you know, I feel like flu is a general illnesses, the same all over the world, different strains, obviously. Um, but the vaccine is you know something specifically the NHS is paid for and will be distributing and therefore it's always you know them I would go to for that.

[Assistant] Yeah, so it's, it sounds like what you're saying is it's less about a fear of inaccurate information and more just, you don't, it's not relevant. Information coming out of other countries just aren't relevant to you.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So have you ever talked to your GP, or like any medical professional, maybe it's GP or a nurse or anybody about the flu vaccine in particular?

[User] No. I've had the flu vaccine several times and never queried it. It's just been like, well, this is a vaccine, I'll have it. I don't personally, I've never had an any, but I've had friends who've had negative side effects and reactions against vaccines. I've been very fortunate I haven't had any to anything I've taken or anything I've had vaccine wise, no. So no, I haven't had any conversations with them there.

[Assistant] Yeah, sure. Um, so you mentioned that [Child] was not able to have the flu vaccine this year, right?


[System] Act as an information elicitation agent for academic interviews.

[User] Yeah, yeah.

[Assistant] Okay. So have you ever talked to your GP, or like any medical professional, maybe it's GP or a nurse or anybody about the flu vaccine in particular?

[User] No. I've had the flu vaccine several times and never queried it. It's just been like, well, this is a vaccine, I'll have it. I don't personally, I've never had an any, but I've had friends who've had negative side effects and reactions against vaccines. I've been very fortunate I haven't had any to anything I've taken or anything I've had vaccine wise, no. So no, I haven't had any conversations with them there.

[Assistant] Yeah, sure. Um, so you mentioned that [Child] was not able to have the flu vaccine this year, right?

[User] That's right.

[Assistant] Yeah. So how did you find out that he was not eligible. Did you try to get the vaccine. Can you speak to that a little?